Leprecon 1624 LED Problem

R

Radio

Member
I'm having a problem with my Leprecon 1624 control console. It controls dimmers with no problems, but when driving my ColorKey WaferPAR HEX 12 Mk2s.
When the LEDs addressed to channels 19-24 every other has only a three step dimmer curve 0/30/100%. Readdressing makes no difference.
If I switch in an older Leprecon 624 , all channels dim correctly. I can find nothing in the Owners Manual that would explain this problem.
I contacted Leprecon Tech Support, but since they no longer manufacture control consoles, they apparently have no interest or ability help me with this problem.
Can anyone here help me resolve this problem? I work with a local community theatre and am trying to avoid the expense and complications of buying a new console.
 
Since the LED's work fine with your 624, it pretty much rules out a DMX or fixture issue since I assume you are simply swapping the same DMX cable between consoles.
I suspect a patch or memory battery issue. The manual mentions "block" patching and "Val(ue)" which I interpret to be proportional patching. Have you tried Patch Table 0 which is 1:1 and not alterable? Do you have the VGA monitor option where you can easily see the patch table? The manual also mentions a coin-cell battery for memory backup.
Have you replaced the battery? In the past, Leprecon has offered great tech support, so sad to hear you had issues with them.
 
microstar said:
Since the LED's work fine with your 624, it pretty much rules out a DMX or fixture issue since I assume you are simply swapping the same DMX cable between consoles.
I suspect a patch or memory battery issue. The manual mentions "block" patching and "Val(ue)" which I interpret to be proportional patching. Have you tried Patch Table 0 which is 1:1 and not alterable? Do you have the VGA monitor option where you can easily see the patch table? The manual also mentions a coin-cell battery for memory backup.
Have you replaced the battery? In the past, Leprecon has offered great tech support, so sad to hear you had issues with them.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am just swapping the DMX cable. I though I had reset the Patch to 1:1, but I will double-check. No Monitor. Memory has not been a general issue, so I doubt it's the battery.
I'm afraid Covid caused major restructuring and retraction at Leprecon. I was deeply saddened too. Their boards were very nice user-friendly, robust, entry level consoles. I even donated an old 624 with the appropriate legacy connector to my local HS that is still analog and was still using a still functioning Leprecon 1000. So at least now they have memory presets.
 
Here is a quote from the LED manual:
In order to avoid failures and interference signal transmission，we connect a resistance 120Ω（1/4W）at the end of the DMX

Another issue with LEDs and a manual console is what DMX mode are the LEDs running? If they are running in a mode with a master dim channel and you dim the color channels along with the master then the fade steps will be reduced.
 
Given the fixtures work fine with the other console, we can likely rule out a fixture mode issue. While the 1624 allows for proportional patching, it doesn't seem to allow for any other dimmer modes so if you've reset the patch to 1:1 and this continues to occur on those faders then it is unlikely a patch issue. Normally we wouldn't see 0-30-100 jumps with DMX termination issues, and as you said the other console works fine (it could be using different timing values and a slightly different DMX chip, but my past experience is these consoles are relatively forgiving on the timing). so I'm not convinced it's a DMX issue. Rather, since it is a single bank of faders, I would wonder if the bank itself has physically failed. Been awhile since I opened one of these up so I can't remember the exact build and circuitry, but I know on some consoles these are discreet modules or at least have discreet controller units for the banks.
 
jglodeklights said:
Given the fixtures work fine with the other console, we can likely rule out a fixture mode issue. While the 1624 allows for proportional patching, it doesn't seem to allow for any other dimmer modes so if you've reset the patch to 1:1 and this continues to occur on those faders then it is unlikely a patch issue. Normally we wouldn't see 0-30-100 jumps with DMX termination issues, and as you said the other console works fine (it could be using different timing values and a slightly different DMX chip, but my past experience is these consoles are relatively forgiving on the timing). so I'm not convinced it's a DMX issue. Rather, since it is a single bank of faders, I would wonder if the bank itself has physically failed. Been awhile since I opened one of these up so I can't remember the exact build and circuitry, but I know on some consoles these are discreet modules or at least have discreet controller units for the banks.
Click to expand...
I did try these on channels 19-24 and 25-30 with the same results, so a totally different bank of faders. I know I went through and reset the Memories, but I need to go back and make sure I reset the Patch to #0.
 
jglodeklights said:
Given the fixtures work fine with the other console, we can likely rule out a fixture mode issue.
Click to expand...
I was curious to see if the problem persisted in direct color mode with no intensity master.
jglodeklights said:
Normally we wouldn't see 0-30-100 jumps with DMX termination issues, and as you said the other console works fine
Click to expand...
The LED manual mentions a RDM feature and in my opinion requires a DMX terminator. Just because system works OK with another console does not show me that the rest of it is wired correctly. If a terminator does not fix the problem it will at least give the peace of mind knowing that things are being used in a proper manor.
 
Mac Hosehead said:
I was curious to see if the problem persisted in direct color mode with no intensity master.

The LED manual mentions a RDM feature and in my opinion requires a DMX terminator. Just because system works OK with another console does not show me that the rest of it is wired correctly. If a terminator does not fix the problem it will at least give the peace of mind knowing that things are being used in a proper manor.
Click to expand...
I am running in six channel mode with no intensity master. I will verify DMX terminator tomorrow.
 
We're kinda blindly playing darts here. The real solution is to begin eliminating individual components one at a time. Yes, probably worthwhile first to add a terminator if there isn't one and make sure you've reset everything on the console, but if that doesn't solve gotta do the troubleshooting. Personally, I'd be doing this with a DMX testing device such as a DMX Cat, but there are ways to use the gear to do so.

1. First the console. We want to check what it's actually outputting. Again, ideally we'd put a DMX tester that can view direct DMX levels being sent right on its DMX port. Connect it and see what happens when we move the different faders; what are the actual DMX values being sent. The way around this is to connect a fixture we know we can control properly directly to the DMX output. Start with addressing it so it's controlled by the first bank of faders, check them, and then readdress it for the second bank and continue. Then I'd repatch those faders at a different addresses and try them again. If the issue persists in the same banks regardless of addresses assigned to them we can put it down to a likely console issue at the faders or we might see some other issue. If there are no problems it's the fixtures or data line.

2. Now the fixtures- connect them individually to control output. Use a DMX tester to send data at address 1 and then at the addresses that seem to be an issue. No tester, use the console. I'd actually do both if I have the option- verify the fixtures accept DMX properly using the tester and then they properly accept the DMX from the console. With cheaper LED fixtures I have seen instances where they specifically do not properly decode the DMX output at some specific DMX timings only on certain addresses 🤷‍♀️. Meaning some particular matchings of fixtures and consoles can be problematic.

3. If the console and fixtures are fine now you test the last component- the data line. I don't know how you have it distributed so I'm not going to go into detail, but basically you need to work your way backward from where the issue is testing each cable and distribution device until something suspect you can try to resolve rears its head. For example, I found one port on a splitter for some LEDs on booms had failed. Booms 2-4 were fine, but boom 1 was intermittently losing control. In putting the DMX Cat on that port versus others and the output on the ETC Gateway and monitoring the DMX analysis I would occasionally see huge spikes in the break timing- it would go from 206ms to over 400 or even 500. Bad splitter port.
 
A bit of useful pedagogy, based on Jojo's posting: even if you think the OP can't actually execute all of what The Right Way is to diagnose a problem, it's probably worth everyone's investment of time to enumerate what that is anyway -- they know which parts they can do, and which parts they can't, and can then refine the suggestions (if they need to; perhaps they'll make it to the goal even if they can't)...

PS: What does one receive and dump DMX off the wire with, Jojo? Wireshark? Will any of the common dongles receive?
 
Wireshark is an ip tool, which might help for artnet or sacn, but usually for DMX sniffing off the cable you'd use a tool like DMXcat or something else that can decode the serial data. I've seen people use digital 'scopes for that purpose - the one in the photo I saw was a rigol but other serial data aware tools would work, with the right bus transcievers.
 
Jay Ashworth said:
A bit of useful pedagogy, based on Jojo's posting: even if you think the OP can't actually execute all of what The Right Way is to diagnose a problem, it's probably worth everyone's investment of time to enumerate what that is anyway -- they know which parts they can do, and which parts they can't, and can then refine the suggestions (if they need to; perhaps they'll make it to the goal even if they can't)...

PS: What does one receive and dump DMX off the wire with, Jojo? Wireshark? Will any of the common dongles receive?
Click to expand...
The simplest way to read DMX and also to send diagnostic values (or commands) is a DMX testing device like the DMX Cat, Chauvet RDM2Go, or Swisson. They incorporate the ability to read the DMX timing to various extents as well as values being sent. The DMXCat also has a flicker diagnostic built in where it will read the output and let you know if the received DMX values change. Wireshark as an IP tool isn't all that useful in this instance unless the 1624's DMX output is being read and input into a network protocol by a gateway or node which seems unlikely to be the case here. A more advanced solution would be a scope or serial data tool like Saleae Logic analyzer which can capture and map out graphically all the timing and levels of DMX, SPI (think pixel tape) and many other protocols over time in their raw electrical form. That seems overkill for this particular situation and most routine issues we run into in theater.
 
jglodeklights said:
The simplest way to read DMX and also to send diagnostic values (or commands) is a DMX testing device like the DMX Cat, Chauvet RDM2Go, or Swisson. They incorporate the ability to read the DMX timing to various extents as well as values being sent. The DMXCat also has a flicker diagnostic built in where it will read the output and let you know if the received DMX values change. Wireshark as an IP tool isn't all that useful in this instance unless the 1624's DMX output is being read and input into a network protocol by a gateway or node which seems unlikely to be the case here. A more advanced solution would be a scope or serial data tool like Saleae Logic analyzer which can capture and map out graphically all the timing and levels of DMX, SPI (think pixel tape) and many other protocols over time in their raw electrical form. That seems overkill for this particular situation and most routine issues we run into in theater.
Click to expand...
A YooToob HVAC technician has this slogan: "If you ain't testing, you're guessing." The same holds true in LX (and audio, for my HumHead kin). Testing means having diagnostic tools, the technical acumen to integrate them into the system, and the experience to correctly interpret the diagnostic information revealed. In audio, one of those tools is Smaart and using it is expected of A1s these days.

In LX we've relied on binary elimination troubleshooting, either something works or does not, typically with the goal of Making Stuff Work without necessarily diagnosing the root cause of Not Working As Expected, or misunderstanding the root cause. Instrumentation is an investment in better troubleshooting, remediation, and understanding. When you finally wrap your head around how many ways and places stuff can go wrong in digital communications, sometimes it's a miracle stuff just works at all. ;)
 
Radio said:
Every other channel of the same fixture. I've tried direct to the fixtures and thru dimmer rack with the same results.
Click to expand...
So now this would suggest the fixtures are having problems with the DMX signal due to timing or something. It doesn't appear to be a patch issue. I would remove the terminator just to see if anything different happens.

Here is a quote from the LED manual:
If using a DMX run longer than 60 meters and/or over 32 units, a signal amplifier may be required.

If you can change a LED fixture to a mode with an intensity channel to see how it behaves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
Open 4/12, dmx decoder/LED tape works from board not stage.
Replies
7
Views
1K
almorton
A
A
CD80 Non-Dim Patch?
Replies
0
Views
2K
arabrownie
A
Kyla Werrett
A Bright Future for Chroma-Q’s Force II Family
Replies
0
Views
687
Kyla Werrett
Kyla Werrett
Rip Van Winkle
Projected backdrops on a multipurpose stage
Replies
2
Views
2K
ship
S
EMJ
Control/Dimming Any old school Strand Palette OS experts out there?
Replies
8
Views
2K
Jay Ashworth
Jay Ashworth

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back