# the dark side of entertainment



## ruinexplorer (Sep 20, 2015)

This is the most recent article which I have read speaking of rather disturbing effects on those working in the industry. http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stu...e-entertainment-industry-20150909-gjinxp.html


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## gafftaper (Sep 20, 2015)

Wow. That's difficult to read... and somehow not surprising. Friends, if you are struggling with thoughts of suicide talk to someone. You are not alone. You have no idea how many people around you care and would be happy to help. If nothing else talk to someone here on CB.


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## Footer (Sep 20, 2015)

ruinexplorer said:


> This is the most recent article which I have read speaking of rather disturbing effects on those working in the industry. http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/stu...e-entertainment-industry-20150909-gjinxp.html



I call total BS on this "study". 2900 people is not enough to even come close to a real study, especially when the study is bias. Web surveys about a given subject always bring out more people who have more in line with that subject. 1 in 12 attempted suicide???? Really???? I have a very long list of connections across the entire country and world. These range from Broadway SM's to carps in Arkansas to people bouncing around Asia. I personally know no one in our line of work who has committed suicide. I know of no instance of members here on CB who have committed suicide. I have 100 people on my call list. None of them have been taken off of it due to suicide. A few have been taken off due to prison time.... but... thats another story. Why am I not seeing the 1 in 12? I know a lot more people attempt then actually go through with it, but... really? 1 in 12? Also, the number of times they mentioned "roadies" makes me wonder if these people even knew who they were interviewing. That phrase is dead. 

Sorry if I sound insensitive here, I know that this industry is stressful and can cause all kinds of mental problems. I just can't get over that 1 in 12 number.


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## SteveB (Sep 20, 2015)

Agree with Footer. 

40 years in a business where everybody knows everybody, where it is easy to keep track of where people are working and I have never heard of anyone whom I have known professionally, commiting suicide.

I too call this a BS story.


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 20, 2015)

As I stated, this is not the first article I have seen on this subject. However, as with many articles where the sources are not stated, it is difficult to see how accurate it is. The assumption that it has a bias may or may not have relevance. It did mention that it includes performers, not just technicians, as well as the study being conducted in Australia, where things might be a bit different. I can't say how many I have known who may have had thoughts or attempts of suicide. It isn't something that often comes up in normal conversation. However, people will often declare their innermost feelings when they believe to be anonymous. Just because you haven't personally been told or encountered this doesn't mean that it isn't present. How many were shocked by Robin Williams? Even those who were close to him didn't know.

Personally, I'd rather let everyone know that they can voice their feelings before they may actually attempt something. They may or may not want to talk to someone they know due to the fact that it can potentially be thrown back at them. There are those who are so insensitive that they basically throw up a wall between themselves and those who need their help. I personally don't ever want to be a wall builder. I'd rather be available to help everyone that I can.


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## chawalang (Sep 20, 2015)

On a sad note, I have worked with three people in this industry who have committed suicide. This is a very broad issue having to do with access to mental health services and a culture willing to realize that it is ok to ask for help, not a weakness.


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 20, 2015)

The performing side of things I would heartily agree and know of a handful professional musician friends who have dealt with such demons. The pressure to perform coupled with anxiety and fast-paced lifestyle (and often crap pay while you're trying to make it on top) is enough to drive most of them to drink or find relief in drugs, and this is pretty well documented problem in professional symphonies. I faced that to a certain degree when I was performing in the pit with an opera company and local orchestras/bands, the articles below strike a strong chord with me (no pun intended). I don't know of many techs that would fit this billing, but mental illness is a serious issue. If you know anybody who is even just hinting at being depressed or makes off-hand comments, do not hesitate to question this further! *Asking a suicidal person if they have suicidal thoughts will not put that bug in their head, because it's already there. Asking them helps them to get the bug out. Speak up!
*
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/20/stage-fright-addiction-classical-music-alcohol

http://www.theguardian.com/music/20...usic-alcohol-substance-abuse-addicts-symphony


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## What Rigger? (Sep 21, 2015)

http://entertainmentassist.org.au/v...ds/files/Phase 2 Executive Summary -Final.pdf
Here's the published findings, so I don't think we can say the article has no sources. Are there problems with the science used to come to these conclusions? Perhaps. I think Footer and SteveB make valid points. I'd encourage two things: 
1. If you or someone you know is having a problem with depression, or is thinking of suicide- get help. Help your friend get help. There are answers. For me, the solution wasn't talking to a shrink although I tried that regularly for several months. But it might work for you; maybe like me, it was a decent start that led you to what does work for you. But above all else _*there's nothing wrong with asking for help.*_
It takes work, I don't know if it ever completely goes away- but I know this much: I'm in control of it now, not the other way around. There's no denying this is a rough way to make a living, and it does screw with "normal life".
2. Just because it's a published study, doesn't mean it met any of the qualifications of the scientific method. A lot of companies want to sell you things with "science" based on a study of 20 people that they paid for and expect you to believe that's enough people to be indicative of a population. I hope it's really not 1 in 12. But really, 1 in (whatever amount) is too much. 

Rollins handles it best, in _Talking From The Box._
"I don't know you but I love you. I love your life. I don't even know you and I love your life. Because you've got one."


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## express (Sep 22, 2015)

What Rigger? said:


> _*there's nothing wrong with asking for help.*_
> It takes work, I don't know if it ever completely goes away- but I know this much: I'm in control of it now, not the other way around.



I find this to be the most important, or the thing that stuck with me. I know that I don't post all that often, however I guess this got personal, as I am one of the (many on CB, I'm sure, sadly) who would be in that category.

I will agree, however, that 1 in 12 does seem... a little bit high... I would fully believe that 1 in 12 have had some form, possibly quite mild, of mental illness. But to say that 1 in 12 have attempted is not a good representation of the actual situation. I think that a lot - most, unfortunately, of us do know somebody who has attempted. It's unfortunate that it can be so easy to hide.

I have no doubt that we as a society need to have a conversation about mental illness and how to deal with it and how to spot it and how it's not something to be ashamed of or something that we should be afraid of. Yes, it sucks, but that doesn't make it something that we need to be afraid of or to demonize, which I'm afraid happens all to often. But that's not just this industry. That's this world.

To @What Rigger? - I'm glad, overly glad, even though we've never met- that you've found what you needed. To anyone who suffers from any mental illness - I'm sorry. To everyone - there's always an answer, and sometimes that answer needs to be 911.


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## gafftaper (Sep 22, 2015)

There are a lot of high school and college students here on CB. The statistics say 20% of you have seriously considered suicide. 575,000 of you will make an attempt every year. Saddest of all, 12 young people die of suicide every day. 

You feel like you are alone. Does anyone care? Would anyone even notice if you were gone? Would you be better off dead? Would the world be a better place without me? These are common thoughts and you are not alone. 

You may be so deep in your pain and depression that you can not see them, but there are many people around you who care. There are people in your life who would run to your rescue if they only knew your pain. Talk to someone you trust. Get help, fight for yourself. 
You are worth it. 

@What Rigger? Is one of the coolest, toughest, guys I've ever met. If he can come here and admit that he has struggled with suicide you can reach out to someone in your life for help.


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## mikeydoesstuff (Sep 22, 2015)

I spent the last 4 years working in colleges. Of the 200 some students I've had 3 were sent home for mysterious "illnesses" after visibly struggling with depression, and 2 admitted prior attempts. That's just what I know. I was their teacher... so I'm sure there was plenty I dont know. 


Footer said:


> I have a very long list of connections across the entire country and world. These range from Broadway SM's to carps in Arkansas to people bouncing around Asia. I personally know no one in our line of work who has committed suicide. I know of no instance of members here on CB who have committed suicide. I have 100 people on my call list. None of them have been taken off of it due to suicide.




SteveB said:


> Agree with Footer.
> 
> 40 years in a business where everybody knows everybody, where it is easy to keep track of where people are working and I have never heard of anyone whom I have known professionally, commiting suicide.
> 
> I too call this a BS story.



I think you guys need to stop and realize that you and your colleagues and friends have been lucky - I myself have attempted more than once. Were I successful, you could put a feather in your hat.

We work crazy hours, we separate from friends and family for long chunks of time. We end up in job situations we can't change. We suffer injuries that make us worry about our futures in our careers. We work with people who find taking the time to care for our mental and physical health a waste of time. All of this in close quarters.
I find the results of the study to be unsurprising, regardless of the dubious sounding quality of the study.


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 23, 2015)

Thank you for those who shared their experiences. I think that we all can easily overlook symptoms of depression in our friends and colleagues. Know that if you have the need for help, you don't have to put it out on an open forum. Please do reach out to someone.


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## Chris15 (Sep 23, 2015)

I think it is important to note the study has come from down here in Aus.
The entertainment industry has lost more of our own than we should over the past few years to suicide, and that has probably spurred this discussion.

I think there are a number of factors making it a more germane issue here, the costs of living being a significant one.
Things like housing affordability are significant issues down here, and the road lifestyle does not help with building the stability and savings for a transition to "retirement" and that can be a significant source of anxiety for people.
The Aussie culture I think is also partly to blame, but that is changing slowly, mental health has become a much more talked about issue over the past ~10 years, and that can only be a positive step forward to help reshape things like the stigma that remains around mental health.

The message is the same though the world over, you're not alone and help is out there.
If there's any doubt, the stats are that something like 45% of the population will experience a mental health condition at some stage in their life...


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## What Rigger? (Sep 23, 2015)

Chris15 said:


> I think it is important to note the study has come from down here in Aus.
> The entertainment industry has lost more of our own than we should over the past few years to suicide, and that has probably spurred this discussion.
> 
> I think there are a number of factors making it a more germane issue here, the costs of living being a significant one.
> ...



Chris, that's a great big fistful of context right there. Thanks for adding that.


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## Reggie (Oct 10, 2015)

mikeydoesstuff said:


> We work crazy hours, we separate from friends and family for long chunks of time. We end up in job situations we can't change. We suffer injuries that make us worry about our futures in our careers. We work with people who find taking the time to care for our mental and physical health a waste of time. All of this in close quarters.
> I find the results of the study to be unsurprising, regardless of the dubious sounding quality of the study.





Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist". The amount of time and money spent talking about nothing and solving nothing before they allow you to discuss your real issues is staggering.


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## gafftaper (Oct 10, 2015)

Reggie said:


> Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist".


" Somebody " could include a close friend, family member, mentor, teacher, former teacher, clergy, or even the suicide hotline (in the US it's 1-800-273-8255 24/7/365)... There are a lot of "somebodies" out there who care about you and can start the process of helping you for free.

Yes there's a good chance that you will need some professional help that costs money eventually. However, we are all surrounded by people who care and would be devastated without us. Just knowing that and connecting with someone who really cares is a big first step.

There are even ways to get that professional help for free or reduced prices. If one of my students came for help there are many options to help them to get help they can afford... Including the fact that I would happily chip in personally to help pay for it. Ability to pay should never be an obstacle to getting suicide prevention help.


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## Reggie (Oct 10, 2015)

First step in helping others would be not being so totally engrossed in our own lives that we fail to notice the issues brewing in our friends and co-workers. Before you tell someone on Monday morning about your kids soccer game, you might want to take 30 seconds and make some observations about your friend/co-workers appearance and demeanor. This is where many people fail at being a friend. They fail to notice and they assume that there is someone in that person's life they can reach out to.

Most guys can't/won't admit to having an issue, it's a weakness.


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## gafftaper (Oct 12, 2015)

Reggie said:


> First step in helping others would be not being so totally engrossed in our own lives that we fail to notice the issues brewing in our friends and co-workers. Before you tell someone on Monday morning about your kids soccer game, you might want to take 30 seconds and make some observations about your friend/co-workers appearance and demeanor. This is where many people fail at being a friend. They fail to notice and they assume that there is someone in that person's life they can reach out to.
> Most guys can't/won't admit to having an issue, it's a weakness.



While yes we all could use a little more awareness, suicide prevention is far more complicated than just awareness of how a co-worker's day is going. Suicide is accompanied by severe depression and/or complex forms of mental illness. There are many symptoms that people hide really well and are often extremely difficult to detect, especially in teens and college students. The majority of younger people who attempt suicide hide it so well no one knows there was a problem. People who look and act depressed are often not in danger because they let their pain show, feel it, deal with it, and get support because of that. Often the people in the most danger are the ones who seem to have it all together on the outside but are devastated on the inside. Thus as difficult as it may be to do, most people need to ask for help because they hide their torment too well.


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## Reggie (Oct 13, 2015)

That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", _after the fact_, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.


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## TheaterEd (Oct 13, 2015)

I guess agree to disagree. Keep in mind that Tech Theater covers a wide array of different situations. Those of us working in schools have hundreds of angsty young adults that we interact with on a daily basis while we have to worry about our lesson plans, pdp, slo, ppg, oh and that's right theatrical productions. Calling us self-centered for not being able to save the world is a little harsh. Clearly, I know what to look out for and do my best to let my students know that they are supported, but I LITERALLY can only do so much. 

I will say though, that since this thread popped up, I have made a concerted effort to reach out to students that seem to be having 'off' days. Sometimes it is easy to forget how much pressure our young people are put under.


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## dvsDave (Oct 13, 2015)

Reggie said:


> That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", _after the fact_, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.



I think you missed the point. @gafftaper was pointing out that there are often_ no outward visible signs_. I have known two people who have committed suicide. 

One couldn't cope with the fact that he killed two of my other friends in a car accident. He committed suicide on the 10th anniversary of the accident, and he had a great support system, with caring parents, professional counseling, and friends who didn't abandon him. They ALL missed the signs that his depression had returned and it hit everyone hard. 
Another was a complete shock to everybody. He was the guy whose face you'd see next to the term "Happy Go-Lucky" in the dictionary. The worst part is that his note said it was hard to be happy go-lucky and yet he felt like he would never find love. Not a single person had ever even suspected or had a smidgen of an idea that he was unhappy, let alone depressed. He hid it from everyone so well, that he shocked EVERYONE when we got the news.
Please don't insult myself or anyone else by saying that claiming we had missed the signs is a "cop-out". Yes, being observant and willing to speak up is a good thing and to be encouraged. But the world is a messy and complex place and absolute's just don't exist when it comes to people and especially mental illness.


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## josh88 (Oct 13, 2015)

And some people won't talk, or can put up enough of a facade. My wife knows I'm down right now because of work and stress. Do my colleagues? I doubt it. With my class schedule I can find plenty of ways to avoid people and I can fake the smile and small talk like a champ. I'm still a mess inside, but my wife doesn't even know the extent because its another burden and stress on both of our lives so she's worried but can't do much. Am I suicidal? no. But this time each fall and when I'm spread to thin like I am, I feel like my primary job is staying upright and putting on the face of a happy well adjusted person who has their s#!t together. I see how it can spiral out of control pretty quickly if one thing starts to slip and fail.

So no, even the people closest to you won't be able to magically solve the problem. They may know something is off or not normal but even thats not always the case, and not for lack of being observant, caring people.


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## mikeydoesstuff (Oct 13, 2015)

Reggie said:


> That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", _after the fact_, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.



I hope that some of these messages have improved your outlook, and I hope that you personally have people who are watching if and when you need it. I know I do, and I know I'm watching others.


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## gafftaper (Oct 13, 2015)

josh88 said:


> My wife knows I'm down right now because of work and stress. Do my colleagues? I doubt it. With my class schedule I can find plenty of ways to avoid people and I can fake the smile and small talk like a champ. I'm still a mess inside, but my wife doesn't even know the extent because its another burden and stress on both of our lives so she's worried but can't do much. Am I suicidal? no. But this time each fall and when I'm spread to thin like I am, I feel like my primary job is staying upright and putting on the face of a happy well adjusted person who has their s#!t together. I see how it can spiral out of control pretty quickly if one thing starts to slip and fail.


This brings up a really good point. You can have a ton of stress on you and feel crushed, sad, lonely, wiped out, etc but not be the least bit suicidal. While stress is a trigger, the real weapon of destruction is the depression or mental illness itself. A person who is completely mentally and emotionally healthy can endure a HUGE amount of stress, feel themselves falling apart in all kinds of ways, but never feel suicidal. While on the other hand a person who is not mentally and emotionally healthy can be taken over the brink into suicidal thoughts by a comparatively small amount of stress in their life.


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## Reggie (Oct 13, 2015)

dvsDave said:


> I think you missed the point. @gafftaper was pointing out that there are often_ no outward visible signs_. I have known two people who have committed suicide.
> 
> One couldn't cope with the fact that he killed two of my other friends in a car accident. He committed suicide on the 10th anniversary of the accident, and he had a great support system, with caring parents, professional counseling, and friends who didn't abandon him. They ALL missed the signs that his depression had returned and it hit everyone hard.
> Another was a complete shock to everybody. He was the guy whose face you'd see next to the term "Happy Go-Lucky" in the dictionary. The worst part is that his note said it was hard to be happy go-lucky and yet he felt like he would never find love. Not a single person had ever even suspected or had a smidgen of an idea that he was unhappy, let alone depressed. He hid it from everyone so well, that he shocked EVERYONE when we got the news.
> Please don't insult myself or anyone else by saying that claiming we had missed the signs is a "cop-out". Yes, being observant and willing to speak up is a good thing and to be encouraged. But the world is a messy and complex place and absolute's just don't exist when it comes to people and especially mental illness.



Just because some can hide the signs or put on a brave face, doesn't mean that we can't and shouldn't try and make a difference with our co-workers. It isn't all neatly wrapped up as one of the posters in this thread would make it out to be. Some people internalize all their feelings because those around them display all the sign of being too wrapped up in their own lives to care. You can chip away at the wall these people have built to hide themselves in. Been down that road with the death of a friend and co-worker. Saw others commit a slow death through alcohol, union had a help program, but insisted that they asked for it, rather than the other way around. Too little, too late.


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## TheLightmaster (Oct 13, 2015)

This thread is cathartic, and I am glad that this is being discussed. Another point to make is that for some people, technical theatre is a way of coping with mental illness. Working together to create a transcendental experience can bring relief to someone who otherwise feels isolated and aimless. Given an affinity for artistry is often a double edged sword with creativity on one side and inner demons on the other, it is important for our community to have this discussion.


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## MrsFooter (Oct 14, 2015)

Reggie said:


> That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", _after the fact_, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring. It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.



Something else to keep in mind. Very often when a person removes themselves from this world, you'll hear people close to them say after the fact something like, "But (s)he was doing so much better!" or "But I saw him/her a few days beforehand, and (s)he seemed so happy!" It's not uncommon for the person in trouble to be in good spirits in the space between when they've finally made the decision to take their own life and when they actually do it. That's because they know that the end is coming, and the personal torment that they're suffering will soon be over. They may feel a sense of calm that comes from making such a monumental decision and knowing that they won't have to suffer much longer. So even if a person is being watched closely, it's easy to mistake their suddenly calm smile for a sign that things are getting better and the need to worry is over, when the very opposite is true.

Never forget, depression is an altered state of mind. Even if you can identify it in someone else, you can't fix it, because your reality doesn't apply to their reality. Depression is a liar, and a very convincing one at that. You can tell someone over and over again that they're loved, that they're worthy, that they're bleeping Superman, and they can still feel like the biggest piece of crap in the world if their depression speaks louder and more forcefully than you. And it usually does. Depression makes you feel like you're not worthy of the love being piled on you, that these people are just taking pity on you or blowing smoke up your ass, and if these people only knew what a terrible person you are, they would never say those nice things to you. Depression. Lies. 

And here's where I'm going to get a little brutal. To say, "Oh, well if _I_ notice something in a co-worker _I'll _step in and save them," is narcissistic as crap. I suffer from depression from time to time, and I assure you, if it was as easy to combat as getting my co-workers to say nice things to me, I wouldn't spend so much money on therapy. Does that mean that you shouldn't say anything if you feel like someone is struggling? Absolutely not. Everyone's depression is a little different, and those kind words and support may be a moment of brightness that they can hang on to. But to say that co-workers, teachers, friends, etc are at fault when a person takes their life because they weren't, (may I quote,) "being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily," is to say that they were capable of saving that person and were too "self-centered" to do so. And that's not fair. A person can be in therapy, can have a loving spouse and family, and have friends telling them constantly that they're loved, and still feel unworthy of breath.

So yes, be supportive. Be observant. Reach out with a shoulder and an ear when you feel like someone is hurting. But also know that you can't fight their demons for them, and for some, the fight will be just too hard to win.


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## lwinters630 (Oct 15, 2015)

For the last 6 years I have been on stage at the high school theater when the students sit in a big circle before the last show of the year. The Seniors give a farewell speech, talking about how they were lost, alone and scared. How many considered taking there lives but when they joined the theater (actor's and tech) they found a family that cared. 
We don't realize we make a difference in someone's life as simple as really asking how things are going, use their name, and show you care. These are big deposits into their self esteem bank. If you are only yelling, criticizing, or excluding them, you have made a huge withdrawal from that bank. So what will that lead to. $;;
So, unless you live on a deserted island, you can change a life for good.

As @MrsFooter said you can't fight their demonds for them. I say, For that I leave it to God.


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## Reggie (Oct 15, 2015)

MrsFooter said:


> And here's where I'm going to get a little brutal. To say, "Oh, well if _I_ notice something in a co-worker _I'll _step in and save them," is narcissistic as crap. I suffer from depression from time to time, and I assure you, if it was as easy to combat as getting my co-workers to say nice things to me, I wouldn't spend so much money on therapy. Does that mean that you shouldn't say anything if you feel like someone is struggling? Absolutely not. Everyone's depression is a little different, and those kind words and support may be a moment of brightness that they can hang on to. But to say that co-workers, teachers, friends, etc are at fault when a person takes their life because they weren't, (may I quote,) "being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily," is to say that they were capable of saving that person and _were too "self-centered" to do so. And that's not fair_. A person can be in therapy, can have a loving spouse and family, and have friends telling them constantly that they're loved, and still feel unworthy of breath.
> 
> So yes, be supportive. Be observant. Reach out with a shoulder and an ear when you feel like someone is hurting. But also know that you can't fight their demons for them, and for some, the fight will be just too hard to win.



That you can't save/help them all, doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Some will be in denial and rebuff any offers of help, some will not. You can't just blow it off and say it's a job for the company's mental heath line or their family or their doctor. Maybe you need to say something, if not to them, maybe other co-workers, union rep., family, etc. Yes, that is a risky path, but risk could have a great reward.


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## billshut (Nov 3, 2015)

Reggie said:


> Those that blithely say, "Talk to somebody...", probably have never had any sessions with a "therapist". The amount of time and money spent talking about nothing and solving nothing before they allow you to discuss your real issues is staggering.


I'm sorry you had a bad experience.

Reggie said:


> That's a cop-out. It's not impossible, it may not be easy. People that say, "I had no idea... Would never have guessed in a million years that... ", _after the fact_, are giving themselves an "out" for being so self-centered, for not really caring.


I'm glad that you've never had to deal with losing someone in this way.

Reggie said:


> It's being concerned, interested, involved, obsevant of the day to day changes and nuances in words and actions of the people you work with or interact with daily. You can make a conclusion and enlist other co-workers to observe, confirm and approach these people with the suggestion to allow someone, maybe you, to help them.


You make it sound like you are perfect and do this all the time.

Reggie said:


> That you can't save/help them all, doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Some will be in denial and rebuff any offers of help, some will not. You can't just blow it off and say it's a job for the company's mental heath line or their family or their doctor. Maybe you need to say something, if not to them, maybe other co-workers, union rep., family, etc. Yes, that is a risky path, but risk could have a great reward.


So are you saying that everyone should just assume that everyone else is struggling and reach out to them as if they are even though they may not actually be? While it can be kind of obvious for some people, it is true that others are really good at hiding it. The flip side is that some people, who have no issues, have bad days or weeks. That doesn't mean something is wrong. If I'm sulking around when I normally don't, sure, ask me if everything is okay, but if I tell you it is, don't keep prodding me looking for an answer that isn't there. If I tell you to bugger off, do it. Respect for others plays into this. Bugging someone may be what pushes them over the edge.


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## josh88 (Nov 3, 2015)

This already hit close to home when it came up originally. I'm definitely feeling it. It's been a really rough fall. I'm fine. I'm not going to do anything, but holy crap I don't know if its me or part of how our world works, but burning the candle at both ends happens more than I'd like and there's just no candle left. you live and you learn, but damn its been a rough few months, I've always been bad at saying no.


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## What Rigger? (Nov 4, 2015)

josh88 said:


> This already hit close to home when it came up originally. I'm definitely feeling it. It's been a really rough fall. I'm fine. I'm not going to do anything, but holy crap I don't know if its me or part of how our world works, but burning the candle at both ends happens more than I'd like and there's just no candle left. you live and you learn, but damn its been a rough few months, I've always been bad at saying no.


 I actually had my doctor (yes, my shrink) tell me I need to take more time off and even offered to write me a prescription for a week off once. Didn't take the prescription, but did take the hint and the week off. Going all the time is a hazard of my gig, because there's not 100's of people who do it. Can't staff a position 12 deep if there's only 4 people who are qualified for it. Saying yes too much is still a thing I work on a lot. But by continuing working on saying "No", I start to get better at it, and then I say it more and I start becoming a human again (as opposed to the Orc most folks say I get to being like when I'm burned out).

Say it with me Josh: "Sorry, no."


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## josh88 (Nov 4, 2015)

What Rigger? said:


> Say it with me Josh: "Sorry, no."


I've definitely gotten better over the years, but I've had a few scenarios recently that were too good to pass up. From a career perspective I'm glad I've done them, it'll pay off. BUT I realized that I've consistantly (by my own doing) worked myself ragged over the last near decade because I jump at new experiences and making new contacts and trying new stuff. The upside is I know I get a clean slate in about a year because my wife is going to grad school and we're moving back to the midwest so I'll get a chance to reset and change the pace for awhile.

Also I think I missed meeting up with you at USITT in Milwaukee by like an hour. So next time we're both in the same city I'll owe you a drink so we both take a little time off.


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