# Can you say LED worklight?



## Lsly (Jun 15, 2014)

Test fixture has arrived! This is the 300w equivalent. Really nice fixture. Hoping the 500w will be out soon.

LS


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## venuetech (Jun 15, 2014)

Very nice units, I just installed 12. could use a longer pigtail, The one i got were just 18". Specks say 24". 36" would have saved most cabling. The colour is very natrual.


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## gafftaper (Jun 15, 2014)

Once the 500 is out I'm going to give it a try. I've been really impressed with the demos at trade shows. But they've been really slow rolling these things out. I agree that 18" is way too short for the pigtail.


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## Lsly (Jun 15, 2014)

gafftaper said:


> Once the 500 is out I'm going to give it a try. I've been really impressed with the demos at trade shows. But they've been really slow rolling these things out. I agree that 18" is way too short for the pigtail.


There is like no info on the 90w unit release. I'm launching an all out campaign to find out what the deal is. Many calls to be made.....We are looking at around 30 of these but I really need the extra punch for the throws I have. Also the diffuser is a bit much. Looking at replacing it with something less wide, at least in the 60w fixtures. I'm thinking it will be perfect in the 90w.

LS


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## venuetech (Jun 15, 2014)

take a look at http://www.controlbooth.com/posts/301954/ 
i gave up waiting as i only had the funding this fiscal year. its getting closer, as for a while the FLx was removed from all osram web pages but it recently re-appeared in this pdf dated 4/14 so there is still no telling just when it will reach the consumer.


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## Chris15 (Jun 15, 2014)

... there is something to be said for delaying a product's release if you haven't got it working totally properly yet.

I for one would rather not be able to buy the product than to buy it and then find out in 12 months that it's not handling its heat properly or any other of a mutlitude of problems that could occur and need the whole thing replaced...


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## JohnD (Jun 15, 2014)

Does anyone remember how many years the Behringer X32 was "shipping soon".


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## gafftaper (Jun 16, 2014)

Last I heard they were heading off for ETL certification and then would hopefully be available sometime very soon. @DELO72 Got an update Mark?


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## Lsly (Jun 16, 2014)

gafftaper said:


> Last I heard they were heading off for ETL certification and then would hopefully be available sometime very soon. @DELO72 Got an update Mark?


This is what I have been told as well. I can wait... Not long... LOL


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## RickR (Jun 16, 2014)

I think we just ordered a couple dozen of the smaller ones because the bigger ones aren't out. If they come out really quickly we might try to swap back.


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## ship (Jun 17, 2014)

Mark is working on a number of fixtures amongst them the Kreios PAR 38 sized type for our industry (say truss warmer). Had a recent demo of where they are going and expect more info soon at least on what he is getting done. Thanks for the demo and keep it going even if LED where the technology is going. Really cool stuff working on on that brand as with others.

Throwing thru the ringers a rope light LED sample I'm play testing amongst two brands that have this version known of. You know, I have rope light from like 20 years ago that I can make into a rough lasso or whip it around and it won't fail. Stuff was solid in core, outer coating molded around the lamps, and it still works as if new - only the outer coating dulled some in needing cleaning. In other words, the rope light was molded around the lamps instead of pulled thru the tubing about it way back when as opposed to now that's crap for rope light.

Test samples of the LED rope light in the console/dimmer cage at the moment for testing with Sensor racks in if it works with them, and or if they need dummy loads. After that, they will be whipped about and run over with a road case in play testing. If it lasts (about one or two shows) longer than a store bought rope light for a show, the extra investment might be worth it.


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## gafftaper (Jun 17, 2014)

RickR said:


> I think we just ordered a couple dozen of the smaller ones because the bigger ones aren't out. If they come out really quickly we might try to swap back.



@DELO72 will be along to comment I'm sure and will give us the very latest he can.


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## Lsly (Jun 17, 2014)

Just got word back from Osram. The FLx is still on the table, but no release date scheduled yet. Put on your patience pants boys and girls.

LS


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## DELO72 (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't know what to say folks. I'm as embarrassed and humiliated as a Product Manager could be over the delays on the FLx... (Needless to say it missed a target spec. item in the UL testing, so needs a tweak still before release.) Here's my current frame of mind regarding our timing on it and inability to meet any of the dates I've previously provided. -- http://media2.giphy.com/media/vwu9UTwIwFr7G/giphy.gif

Please give me details on the Behringer X32, it might help ease the pain (combined with a bottle of scotch...or two). *sigh*

If I had to guess, I would put the FLx out at least another 2 months at this time. Pigtails will be 36" this time around though, so we are making improvements as we go.
I don't know what to say, folks. I'm embarrassed beyond words. Every date I have given was what I believed and was told would be true-- only to be turned into a liar by things outside my control. We'll keep fighting the good fight. It's a great product. I just need it in production and available.

Sincerely,

Mark


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## Lsly (Jun 17, 2014)

Mark,

Please know that MOST of us would rather wait than receive a product rushed to market. I'm extremely happy with the 60w version, based on my tests with it I can sign off on a large purchase for my employer. So Thank You. I have been tracking this fixture type for about two years now and the Krieos FL is outstanding. Color temp is AWESOME! At 40' the 60w is almost there for me in terms of output. I can wait for the 90w to give me what I need. 

My looking at replacing about 19k watts of incandescent work lights, with just over 2k of LED. Amazing. Power savings is obvious. I would like to see a integrated barn door for the units, and perhaps a less defused lens as an option, but those are not deal breakers at all.

Again thanks for your efforts, love the GIF!

Lorin Sly


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 17, 2014)

Its ok @DELO72 , at least you aren't SOG, who teased me with a multi tool with a diagonal cutter head for years, but ultimately decided not to put it into production.


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## gafftaper (Jun 18, 2014)

Thanks Mark,
We appreciate the details updates. I would much rather have it done right than have it done quickly. Little things like 36" pigtails make a big difference.


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## ship (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm working on a LED work light for my work table at work amongst other projects.

Articulating drafting table light arm on a swivel springed loaded up for like a 15# load. The arm is proving difficult to engineer what is seemingly easy except that I am mounting a heavy Mole 12"x16" lighting fixture on the arm from it's yoke. Large scale articulating arm assembly on a swivel base. Lived with drafting table lamp type arms all my life and never assumed that this would be the hardest part of the process. Base for it will be like a crane in having a cantiliever 1Kw transformer as ballast in weight and power at the bottom.

It is to mount an early/mid 70's Mole Richardson #5511 5-lite Mole FAY PAR 36 MoleQuartz wash light. (Found it in a back store room, one already in the museum restored, four others restored and sent to a club with 4x #4596 ACL in series and a DWE in the center - they love them.)

In lamp, 5x switched Halco/ProLED PAR 36/9WW40/LED #80651 PAR 36 wash lights. They are 9 Watts/12Volts and 40 Degree beam spread, I will have lots of light on demand to supplement my Inkie current work table light. Challenge also with the Halco PAR 36 LED lamp is it's not designed properly, the rear mounting/seat dia. for the lamp is 4" in dia which is 1/4" too large for any normal PAR 36 fixture . Very odd in me having to hand cut and sand 1/8" spacers 4" ID. 4.3/4" O.D. so as to properly seat the lamp hopefully. Otherwise I have some extra 1/32" spacers TBA. Very odd lamp in it won't seat properly in any fixture it is supposed to mount into.

Main goals of the project to finally try this LED wash light (never powered one up yet), find a home/use for the antique light, get more light at my work table and the drill press next to it, and R&D what a early LED PAR 36 Audience blinder might be like given what is on the market by way of using stock fixtures with replacement LED lamps in them. Who knows, might be a good thing for the future in R&D.

Working on a large crane arm assembly with a large 1Kw transformer ballast for it, fixture is fully restored. (New topic for discussion once done.)


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## let there be light (Jun 24, 2014)

Lsly said:


> Mark,
> 
> Please know that MOST of us would rather wait than receive a product rushed to market. I'm extremely happy with the 60w version, based on my tests with it I can sign off on a large purchase for my employer. So Thank You. I have been tracking this fixture type for about two years now and the Krieos FL is outstanding. Color temp is AWESOME! At 40' the 60w is almost there for me in terms of output. I can wait for the 90w to give me what I need.
> 
> ...


How did you use the 60W version? I am specing work lights for a high school auditorium and as the FLx is delayed, these seem ideal. The height over the stage would be about 17', and I was asking for two. Also 2 in the cove for the apron, which is a greater distance, about 30', and one each side of the stage.


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## Hopzing (Jun 24, 2014)

Just a suggestion. Take a look at the Snap On tools led work light. They are available at Costco.


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## ship (Jun 25, 2014)

Hopzing said:


> Just a suggestion. Take a look at the Snap On tools led work light. They are available at Costco.



If reply to my post... but I didn't make it and in buying it, it wouldn't fit any of the three design reasons I had for making it. Noted the other supplier though. 

If for work light for a stage wash or even work table, post away a link please, though CRI is very important for work lights given stage set painting and at or well above 85+ CRI would be a goal. LED's are not accurate for CRI scale but often figures can be done in that expected scale for a LED output. Not just about the light, but also about the painting of the set in work lights that will be the same under stage lighting conditions.


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## Lsly (Jun 25, 2014)

let there be light said:


> How did you use the 60W version? I am specing work lights for a high school auditorium and as the FLx is delayed, these seem ideal. The height over the stage would be about 17', and I was asking for two. Also 2 in the cove for the apron, which is a greater distance, about 30', and one each side of the stage.


The 60w version is very nice. If you are replacing an exsisting incandescent FL unit this may work for you. At 17' its nice and bright. I will say the quality of light is a bit flat. Color temp is great compared to a 500w unit. You might want to double the units in the FOH. I'll try to get some Picts.


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## Lsly (Sep 16, 2014)

DELO72 said:


> I don't know what to say folks. I'm as embarrassed and humiliated as a Product Manager could be over the delays on the FLx... (Needless to say it missed a target spec. item in the UL testing, so needs a tweak still before release.) Here's my current frame of mind regarding our timing on it and inability to meet any of the dates I've previously provided. -- http://media2.giphy.com/media/vwu9UTwIwFr7G/giphy.gif
> 
> Please give me details on the Behringer X32, it might help ease the pain (combined with a bottle of scotch...or two). *sigh*
> 
> ...


Any word on the 90W? Fingures crossed!

Lorin Sly


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## DELO72 (Sep 17, 2014)

Lsly said:


> Any word on the 90W? Fingures crossed!
> 
> Lorin Sly


 
 For internal reasons too crazy to explain, no. I have a prototype of a new design being tested now. ETA is probably months away still though.


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## let there be light (Sep 17, 2014)

I installed 6 of these fixtures today (the lower wattage version) I'm a smallish 350 seat theatre. 4 were mounted on a pipe that sits just DS of the apron and 2 were mounted overhead on a pipe mid stage. I am very pleased with the quality of light. I have speced them for another larger theatre as well, with slightly higher trims. I think that based on what I saw today they will be fine. I did order more than I would have done with the brighter fixture.


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm curious, @DELO72:

Why a Pigtail, rather than a C13/14 inlet? I shouldn't think that it would generate heat, on the scale where a heat-resistant cord would be required, and I only say a C13 cause the cords are much easier to get than C7s, which are probably plenty, current-wise.


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## DELO72 (Sep 19, 2014)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I'm curious, @DELO72:
> 
> Why a Pigtail, rather than a C13/14 inlet? I shouldn't think that it would generate heat, on the scale where a heat-resistant cord would be required, and I only say a C13 cause the cords are much easier to get than C7s, which are probably plenty, current-wise.


 
I've honestly never heard of a C13/14 inlet being used on anything other than a desktop PC. They certainly aren't common for home or commercial lighting fixtures. If anything, on higher-powered items the way to go is (in my opinion) Neutrik PowerCon connectors. But these were meant to be simply replacements for the T3 Halogen fixtures already in use. So we popped on a normal grounded power cord, and left off a plug so the user can attach it to a junction box, or put an edison plug, or 2P&G stage pin connector, etc. on it. whatever meets the needs of their space..


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 19, 2014)

Naw; they're everywhere. Nearly every piece of rackmount equipment ever built including audio and video broadcast, not just computing. 

Also all the DJ class LED lighting tends to come with them, if it is not equipped with a powercon. These are generally intended as work light (from my view), the extra reliability of a powercon seems overkill.

I would only see them needing permanently attached wiring to the extent that they were intended for outdoor service, for which they may not be listed, and if they were then I would expect merely a junction box on the fixture...


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## josh88 (Sep 19, 2014)

I Definitely have some ADJ puck lights and a couple of Elation LED pars that have them. That being said, I rarely disconnect them from the fixture because I don't really have a need.


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 19, 2014)

Oh, sure, Josh. It's not about "able to disconnect", largely, though, it's about "able to provision for precisely what you need on install."

You can get C13 cords with lots of different plugs, and in 1 foot length increments to at least 15 feet, and longer to about 25, plus in different colors, and you can stock them... and they take no specialized labor to install.

Admittedly, stagepin is unlikely, but who's plugging LED worklights into those?


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## venuetech (Sep 19, 2014)

the fixture has an IP65 rating, you are not going to get that with a C13/14. You can put it just about any where but in the pool. My problem was that the FL units came with a pigtail just 16" long, great for mounting on a J-box, but way short for pipe /clamp mounting. there is a junction box on the fixture, I would have installed longer pigtails but the existing pigtail is very well sealed into place, and i did not want to screw up the warranty. The other surprise was that the mounting hole in the yoke is sized for a 1/2" conduit fitting, not the 1/2" bolt hole as expected. not a big problem just had to dig around for some extra washers.


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## DELO72 (Sep 19, 2014)

venuetech said:


> the fixture has an IP65 rating, you are not going to get that with a C13/14. You can put it just about any where but in the pool. My problem was that the FL units came with a pigtail just 16" long, great for mounting on a J-box, but way short for pipe /clamp mounting. there is a junction box on the fixture, I would have installed longer pigtails but the existing pigtail is very well sealed into place, and i did not want to screw up the warranty. The other surprise was that the mounting hole in the yoke is sized for a 1/2" conduit fitting, not the 1/2" bolt hole as expected. not a big problem just had to dig around for some extra washers.


 
The 2nd Gen. Version we hope to have here in a few weeks will have the longer 36" pigtail and 95 CRI. I'm not sure what you mean by the mounting hole in the Yoke not being sized for a 1/2" bolt, it was spec'd to 13.2mm, specifically to fit the Bolt on most C-Clamps, not for conduit fitting. Are you feeling it is too big for the bolt and the washers are needed for added spacing? Feedback is always helpful!


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## venuetech (Sep 20, 2014)

It is much larger than 13.2mm, i needed two washers to sandwich the yoke as the hole was almost big enuf for a bolt head to slip through and it was larger than a C-clamp pan post. i will snap a photo tomorrow.

very nice fixtures, may try to fit a few more into this years budget.


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## let there be light (Sep 21, 2014)

We were replacing metal halide work lights because the ballasts kept going bad. We already had stage pin connectors on the cable, so we used stage pin for these replacements. No need to change.


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## venuetech (Sep 21, 2014)

that is a C-clamp post passing through the yoke, with a penny nearby.
unit was dated 11/2013


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 21, 2014)

Yup, 13.2mm is half an inch all right.


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## Lsly (Sep 25, 2014)

venuetech said:


> that is a C-clamp post passing through the yoke, with a penny nearby.
> unit was dated 11/2013


I'm curious as to why you are not mounting the c-clamp the traditional way? Or is this pict just for demonstration? All the clamps I have put on this fixture, Altman-ETC, fit very well.
LS


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## Lsly (Sep 25, 2014)

DELO72 said:


> For internal reasons too crazy to explain, no. I have a prototype of a new design being tested now. ETA is probably months away still though.


No worries! Just keep at it. We are in for 25 plus fixtures when its ready. And we are waiting, as we need the output for our throws. The 60w is a peach BTW.

LS


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 25, 2014)

LS: the point of his photograph is almost certainly "Look: the hole in the yoke is way too big."


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 25, 2014)

Lsly said:


> I'm curious as to why you are not mounting the c-clamp the traditional way? Or is this pict just for demonstration? All the clamps I have put on this fixture, Altman-ETC, fit very well.
> LS


How about posting a photo of one of yours with a c-clamp mounted so we can see its different or understand why you don't see a problem? Clearly something odd here.


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## Lsly (Sep 27, 2014)

Not sure but it looks like maybe he got a bad bale. This is a Altman style clamp. Standard 1/2 bolt. No washer needed.Also had an ETC on there to check, it was the same. Maybe that spud is smaller than normal. I'm wondering what is came off?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 27, 2014)

That's weird. Venuetechs yoke is definitely a different design and appears to actually have a wide spot to accommodate the large hole. Would seem to have two yoke options - one for c-clamp and one for fixed mounting using 1/2" electrical fittings. Maybe?


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## venuetech (Sep 27, 2014)

here is a better shot of the yoke.
I think that same weather tight fitting that you see on the left would fit into the yoke hole nicely. line all that up on a weather tight junction box and you would have a nice looking install.
Think i just got some odd leftovers.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 27, 2014)

venuetech said:


> here is a better shot of the yoke.
> I think that same weather tight fitting that you see on the left would fit into the yoke hole nicely. line all that up on a weather tight junction box and you would have a nice looking install.
> Think i just got some odd leftovers.



I think you just got the wrong model.


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## Lsly (Sep 28, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I think you just got the wrong model.


Yup bale is different. Odd, but I'm sure our Osram member will be along in a minute or two.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 28, 2014)

Lsly said:


> Yup bale is different. Odd, but I'm sure our Osram member will be along in a minute or two.


Sooner than the FLx?


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## wiscolighting (Sep 28, 2014)

DELO72 said:


> I've honestly never heard of a C13/14 inlet being used on anything other than a desktop PC. They certainly aren't common for home or commercial lighting fixtures. If anything, on higher-powered items the way to go is (in my opinion) Neutrik PowerCon connectors. But these were meant to be simply replacements for the T3 Halogen fixtures already in use. So we popped on a normal grounded power cord, and left off a plug so the user can attach it to a junction box, or put an edison plug, or 2P&G stage pin connector, etc. on it. whatever meets the needs of their space..



I seem to remember c13/c14s on some of the smaller Martin and VariLite fixtures a few years ago, like the Mac 250,300,etc with no locking mechanism included. But almost everything has gone PowerCon and with good reason.


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## Lsly (Sep 29, 2014)

Oh you mean IEC. OK I get it now. I prefer a hard wired tail myself. Never really liked the separate tail. Just needs to be 24-36" minimum.


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## techieman33 (Sep 29, 2014)

wiscolighting said:


> I seem to remember c13/c14s on some of the smaller Martin and VariLite fixtures a few years ago, like the Mac 250,300,etc with no locking mechanism included. But almost everything has gone PowerCon and with good reason.



Sure powercon has some benefits, but it has a lot of negatives too. Not being able to connect or disconnect the plug while the circuit is live is a HUGE drawback, and potential danger IMO. And I can't even count the number of times I've watched hands struggle to plug power in into the power out on a fixture or vice versa. They get it and NL-4 confused, you would think they would have at least been smart enough to make it a different color so it's easier to differentiate the two to help reduce confusion. And of course they can't figure out how to unplug it so they end up taking the plug half apart or they break it. TrueOne fixed some of those problems, but of course the industry hard already (foolishly IMO) make powercon the standard. It'll be a happy day when powercon is no more.


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## wiscolighting (Sep 29, 2014)

techieman33 said:


> Sure powercon has some benefits, but it has a lot of negatives too. Not being able to connect or disconnect the plug while the circuit is live is a HUGE drawback, and potential danger IMO. And I can't even count the number of times I've watched hands struggle to plug power in into the power out on a fixture or vice versa. They get it and NL-4 confused, you would think they would have at least been smart enough to make it a different color so it's easier to differentiate the two to help reduce confusion. And of course they can't figure out how to unplug it so they end up taking the plug half apart or they break it. TrueOne fixed some of those problems, but of course the industry hard already (foolishly IMO) make powercon the standard. It'll be a happy day when powercon is no more.



I agree that PowerCon probably isn't the best, I also wish that Neutrik wouldn't have rushed it to the market and waited to develop one with breaking capacity on the initial models, but now we have a number of different variants floating around which can confuse the already confused hand, but you also see the same confusion with the numerous other connectors that they encounter, another one that tends to confuse by Neutrik is EtherCon... I understand the concept behind it but like some of their other connectors you do kinda get the feeling that they were trying to reinvent the wheel. That being said I still see some major advantages in PowerCon over IEC, I think we will still see it around for at least a little while.


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## Lsly (Nov 14, 2015)

Yup yup! Very happy. Gel frame is nice!


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## Lsly (Nov 14, 2015)




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