# Hanging Moving Lights in a Weird Position



## alyx92 (Feb 26, 2013)

Hi all!

I'm doing a show where I'll have 4 Mac 700's on the FoH Catwalk. My question is about safely hanging them there. This catwalk has two pipes to hang instruments from: One 18 inches from the catwalk floor, and another 18 inches above that. There are no hanging positions underneath the catwalk and the floor of the catwalk is solid, not a grate.

So here's my options as I see them currently, and hopefully you guys can shed some light on this for me:

A) Hang them sitting straight up on the top pipe.
Pros: Easy hang
Cons: Bad angles (ie the light won't be able to go as far DS as I need it because of the tilt limitations)

B) Side hang/Yoke them out away from the pipe
Pros: Will hit everywhere I need, 
Cons Difficult to hang, Not entirely safe, bad for the motors in the mover

C) Cheeseborough another pipe under the catwalk
Pros: Fixes all the problems
Cons I'm not sure I'm 100% comfortable with the electricians rigging that up safely before I get there, and we don't have money to hire a rigger.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone can help me out in figuring out what to do here!

Thanks so much!
-Alyx92


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## Footer (Feb 26, 2013)

You can hang the Mac700 any orientation you please. Martin uses good motors that can handle it. I have hung them on torm positions before with no issue.


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## LavaASU (Feb 26, 2013)

I don't see how yoking out a mac is "not entirely safe". Do you have doubts about your electricians abilities to do that? Or you're worried about the light falling apart (which won't happen)? Something else?


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## alyx92 (Feb 26, 2013)

LavaASU said:


> I don't see how yoking out a mac is "not entirely safe". Do you have doubts about your electricians abilities to do that? Or you're worried about the light falling apart (which won't happen)? Something else?



I was mainly worried that with the center of gravity would being far removed from the pipe it would be more susceptible to falling. But you guys have eased my fears. Thanks for the help!


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## Footer (Feb 26, 2013)

alyx92 said:


> I was mainly worried that with the center of gravity would being far removed from the pipe it would be more susceptible to falling. But you guys have eased my fears. Thanks for the help!



Now, be sure your clamps are actually tight and you safety the thing. Also, be sure that your pipe does not spin. Otherwise, there is nothing different.


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## DHSLXOP (Feb 26, 2013)

Remember that the Mac 700 is a little over 2' long when hanging straight down (not including clamps). So it may take a couple of electricians to safely maneuver the light between pipes that are only 18" apart. Also, you definitely want to make sure it is tight. There is nothing worse than programming a yoked out mover and coming back the next day to find that light dropped an inch, causing all of your positions to be slightly off (yes, this has happened to me).


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## derekleffew (Feb 27, 2013)

I think I'd probably cheeseborough a 3' pipe vertical to the two horizontal ones, and side-hang the fixture from that. Depending on the exact type of clamp; some won't ever tighten enough to prevent slippage when roostered (yoked out). This makes focusing a little tricky, however.

If it were a longer term install, I'd put a 30" pipe out from the lower bar, and use a diagonal (hypotenuse) to the upper pipe. Hang the fixture normal, [-]using the front/back clamp holes rather than the normal side holes[/-] (thinking of the MAC2000). But that's a lot of additional hardware: 2x 30" pipes, 1x rigid CB, 2x swivel CB--per unit.
.


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## jglodeklights (Feb 27, 2013)

*insert repetition of all that has already been said prior* Should you be concerned about the pipe rotating, something that can be surprisingly difficult or surprisingly easy to make happen, one solution would be to take two 2' sections of pipe and four rotalocks or cheeseboroughs to tie the pipes together. Even one section of pipe may be enough to keep rotation from ocurring. Obviously this is a moot point if your catwalk is fully welded versus the pipes being on hangers and clamps of some sort.


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## alyx92 (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks for everyones input.

It is a welded pipe so it's not going anywhere. If I take dereks suggestion and hang it on a vertical pipe, would it have less of a chance of bumping out of focus like DHS mentioned?


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## PeteEngel (Feb 27, 2013)

2 half cheeseboroughs with a grade 8 bolt will hold that fixture a solid as Mount Rushmore. I've side hung a number of very heavy movers that way with no issues. If possible use a 3 person team, 1 witha rope to hold weight, 1 to help guide and hold in position and 1 to lock the fixture down. With proper prep, it takes very little time and no one gets hurt (if everyone works as a team).


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## derekleffew (Feb 27, 2013)

alyx92 said:


> ... If I take Derek's suggestion and hang it on a vertical pipe, would it have less of a chance of bumping out of focus like DHS mentioned?


In my experience, a moving light is much more susceptible to rotate *around* a pipe, rather than slide *along* a pipe (regardless of clamp type). In other words, once a fixture is tightened to a vertical, it's not going anywhere. Whereas one might not be able to get the clamps tight enough to prevent a yoked-out ML from slipping. At least not without a specialized wing nut wrench (No c-wrench on the wingnuts, EVAR!).

Maybe it's not an issue; I don't often hang aluminum clamps on BIP. But don't even bother trying to yoke out MLs on aluminum truss.
.


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## JCarroll (Feb 27, 2013)

My experiences are exactly in line with Dereks. I'd hang it on the vertical pipe.


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## soundlight (Feb 27, 2013)

I'll add my vote to the vertical pipe option. Just use a pair of 90 degree cheeseboros, rotalocks, or other appropriate pipe hardware to put a vertical pipe between your two horizontal pipes and side-hang the fixture that way. The MAC700 has some of the best motors out there and they will be fine in this orientation. Tighten your clamps and pipe hardware down properly and the fixture won't move a fraction of an inch over an entire run.


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## epimetheus (Mar 18, 2013)

*Mounting Automated Fixtures From Catwalk*

My church's new worship center has catwalks for all of our lighting positions. The catwalks have 1.5" Sch. 40 pipe for the top rail and the mid rail. The lighting install company mounted our existing movers yoke down, cantilevered off the catwalk by building a 4-shaped bracket out of 1.5" sch. 40, grid clamps, and what look like some sort of forged swivel clamp. The problem is the geometry of these brackets makes it impossible for the fixture to be mounted level, straight, or with any consistency. 

So, my general question is how would you do it? (I'll provide some pictures tonight to show what we have.)


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## Sean (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Mounting Automated Fixtures From Catwalk*

Your question is very site-specific. (epimetheus' question above)

Without photos or good drawings, I don't think we'll be able to give you much of any useful information.

More info please!

--Sean


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## epimetheus (Mar 19, 2013)

*Re: Mounting Automated Fixtures From Catwalk*

Well, I forgot about the pictures last night in light of the other tasks I had to take care of. I will try again tonight. Big thanks to whichever mod moved my post into this thread. I bow in humbleness to your superior search capabilities.  I like the Rota-lock and vertical pipe idea, but I'm concerned my movers may not be able to handle that. We currently have (4) Megalite Axis 500s and (2) ELektralite LXE700 Spots. Anybody have any experience with yoking these out? I don't see anything in the manual for either fixture that prohibits mounting in a yoked out position.


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## blalew (Apr 14, 2016)

Moving into a new venue in a couple of weeks (woohoo!) and we have catwalks, which are amazing. (Older venue has 15' trim, so lifts and ladders...). Anyway, the venue is designed to have instruments hung from catwalk rails. There are two rails - one at handrail height and one about a foot below. My question is regarding hanging movers from the catwalk rail. The consultant had suggested a custom fabricated "kicker" made of metal that would hook on the top rail, brace against the bottom rail, and allow the movers to be hung about 18" out from the rail.

I had thought about securing a 2' length of 2" pipe vertically to both rails with cheeseboroughs and then using a 24" Mega sidearm from the light source.

Is this a good way to do it, and if not, how?


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## petercav17 (Apr 14, 2016)

Is this a permanent thing or just for one show? Are you trying to hang below the catwalk or out in front?

I have hung movers from under catwalks in a way similar to this successfully. If we ever need movers from the cats, we do a ~2' long taildown with 2" sch 40 in a U or upside down T configuration from the lower catwalk pipe. Then safety with 1/8" GAC, Foy knotted to both the catwalk pipe and the horizontal taildown pipe.

I've never used those mega sidearms so I can't really comment on that, but having only one attachment point would make me nervous. But maybe that's just me. Also note that the pipe is 1" OD, meaning that if your movers have 2" trigger clamps or half cheeses, they won't fit.

If you are trying to hang out in front, I think I'd skip the mega sidearm and use 2" pipe instead, and like the consultant said, brace to the bottom rail using more pipe and swivel cheeseboroughs.


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## derekleffew (Apr 14, 2016)

petercav17 said:


> ... with 2" sch 40 in a U or upside down T
> ... I think I'd skip the mega sidearm and use 2" pipe instead, ...


You mean 1.5" schedule 40, right? 1.9" O.D.?


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## petercav17 (Apr 14, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> You mean 1.5" schedule 40, right? 1.9" O.D.?



Yes I meant 1.5" pipe, thanks. I keep doing that.


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## blalew (Apr 14, 2016)

Good point about the Mega-Sidearm not being 1.9" OD. OOPS!
I did see that City Theatrical has a Safer Sidearm model 210M that would work. I'm just trying to hang them out from the catwalk, not necessarily below it.

I do like the idea of having some upside-down Ts made from Schedule 40 1.9" OD pipe and using two cheeseboroughs to attach to the two rails, is that what you were suggesting?


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## petercav17 (Apr 14, 2016)

Yup that's what I was suggesting. Although the safer sidearms would work great if you did want to go out in front.


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## JohnD (Apr 14, 2016)

I am curious about these inverted T-bars, who makes them, how are they rigged?


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## Erik456 (Apr 16, 2016)

Also just to throw another wrench into the pot, make sure to consider maintenance. Even if this is a short run, can you easily access the unit if it needs service?


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## derekleffew (Apr 16, 2016)

JohnD said:


> I am curious about these inverted T-bars, who makes them, how are they rigged?


I don't know if any are made commercially--I don't think I've ever seen them in a catalog (Thomas, Tomcat, Global, Applied, etc.; but! http://www.doughty-engineering.co.uk/shop/163/164/index.htm )--they always seem to just appear. I've never seen them made from anything other than 50mm aluminum tube. Not too difficult for one experienced in TIG welding. They're rigged from two horizontal members in the same plane (one side of box truss) with two aluminum either rigid or swivel cheeseborough s. The ones in the picture hanging from the arch would obviously need to be swivel CB s.


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## petercav17 (Apr 16, 2016)

Erik456 said:


> Also just to throw another wrench into the pot, make sure to consider maintenance. Even if this is a short run, can you easily access the unit if it needs service?



Under the catwalk can be a problem. For me, once hung I can barely reach the locks, and seeing the screen is impossible.


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