# If you were going to choose a console today?



## kendal69 (May 10, 2010)

If you were to buy a console today or in a few months what would you buy for between 5K and 12K to do conventional, DMX, and some moving lights.

Seems like some new stuff is coming out like the Martin M1, anyone played with that yet? Also a lot o talk about the ION and others that I may not be aware of. Also seems people are moving away from HOGs 

Currently I'm leaning toward the M1, just because it will be the latest greatest and the newest stuff seems to have a longer shelf life. I have buying a console that is about to be retired.

I would use it for Convention work so I never know what will be thrown at me and a lot of people are moving as fast as they cab towards everything LED.

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## derekleffew (May 10, 2010)

Genre and type of venue?


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## sdauditorium (May 10, 2010)

Without knowing what types of shows you'd be using it for and the level(s) of expertise of your techs, it's tough. We upgraded to a ETC Express 24/48 about 5 years ago from an old Strand MX. Since, we've added a few moving light fixtures, a couple Right Arms and 24 color scrollers. That eats up a TON of the board's 96 channels and makes it not fun to control them sometimes.

I've been looking at, and subsequently would suggest, an Ion. Great reviews and relative intuitive interface. Further more, not only will it likely serve your current needs but also needs well into the future.

That will be our next board in a couple years - the Ion with a few fader wings, touch screens and RFU.


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## techno89 (May 10, 2010)

I would do something in the EOS family to, maybe and Element if you don't need everything the Ion has


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## Jeroen (May 10, 2010)

The GrandMA en GrandMA2 series are impressive.
Perhaps a GrandMA Ultra-light or GrandMA2 Ultra-light fits your budget. Otherwise a GrandMA Pico or Micro.
The GrandMA series has the advantage that they all 'speak the same language'. If you can program on an ultra light, you can also work with a full size MA if you have the opportunity. So for your own personal development it's an excellent platform. Also GrandMA is known all over the world, so guests will appreciate the console.
The GrandMA family is one of the most powerful range of consoles available today.


But you should also look to your venue and type of use. What's desired? busking? ...

Other excellent consoles: ETC ION, ETC/AVAB Congo Junior, CompuLite Vector Violet, ADB Mentor (very good for conventionals but not so happy on movers), Chanmsys MagicQ 200 (more a rock 'n roll console). From those the ETC Congo Jr, would be my choice for theatre purposes.
More conventionals? -> ETC Element?


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## renegadeblack (May 10, 2010)

It really depends on how many MLs you're going to have. If it's going to be mostly conventionals and scrollers with maybe one or two MLs, then I'd say that the Element is the best way to go. I just got one last week at school (upgrade from an Innovator) and it's great so far.


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## DanAyers (May 10, 2010)

A good console is like a good pair of shoes. One may be the most comfortable for one person and the worst fit for another.

For that budget, get a demo.
Here is a good list to consider, its definitely not the only list...

The Chemsys Magic-Q is nice because it accommodates several programming styles and allows you to intertwine the styles together, if you like an ETC style or an Avolites or HOG or MA style you can adjust the board to speak this language. It may be above your budget, and it is only available from PRG which could limit competitive pricing opportunities.

The ION is a good fit if you do a lot of work with rep theaters, or you like their fader wings. It has a respectable learning curve of about a day, and on the programming side it seems like a lot of button pushes. They're market share is rapidly growing in the rep theater and LORT theaters will like the fact that they can bring their cue's along with the show.

The Congo JR is a good fit if you have a solid operator and want to be able to minimize keystrokes. Programming language is fairly European and unique to the us so if you have multiple operators it might not be a good fit.

The HOG system is good but declining in the market place. The nice thing about HOG is jut about every good professional, lighting board operator knows how to use it & it will do the job quite nicely. If you do straight theater with lots of cue's you may prefer the ion over the hog.

The Jands Vista System uses a unique timeline approach which can make programming the board a breeze. I openly admit I haven't used it but I've heard complaints about editing the timeline. 

The MA System has been taking the touring market by storm. I know a lot of people like it. I have not run a show on it but I can say space invaders is a lot of fun on this console. 

The Board operator for Pearl Jam used the Virtuosso by Strand & was quite pleased with that console series, ive never used it but she praised it.

And I did enjoy a demo by Martin on their boards, but I really do not see them very often.


Regardless, check with several of the local rental companies near you and find out what they use. If you ever tour, then stick to the more well known boards like ETC ION, HOG and MA Try to locate 2-3 identical boards in rental stock or another company that you could use if your board ever crashed 10 minutes before the show. I did a show last week, board died 10 minutes before the show, it happens.


Get a demo, make sure you like the interface for yourself.


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## shiben (May 10, 2010)

I would personally advise against the Congo Jr. Although I used one for a couple of years (and it was my first memory board), I still find them dificult to use and get to do what I want. I also find patching a bit confusing (especially if you want to have your scroller and your intensity in one channel with 2 parameters). Moving to the Ion was a breeze, and basically was trouble free. I had things working like I wanted, and I cues with scrollers on lights all from the same place within a day, and was happily programing away. +1 for the Ion. However, also +1 for getting a demo of a couple of units. Who cares if I really love the Ion if you hate it. Treat it like a car, its about the same price anyhow. Test drive that guy.


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## Sparkinium (May 10, 2010)

We've got a Jands Vista at my college. It's definitely designed to work best for rock-and-roll type work, in contrast to theatrical work. However, Jands is very good at updating the software frequently, and in my experience, their support staff responds to inquiries quickly. It's also worth noting that they're currently developing a new operating system for their boards, code-named Byron, which will supposedly be more aimed at theatre uses.

We've also got an ETC Element here. I've really liked it, and it's great if you're familiar with the Express or similar. I don't know enough about it to say any more than that, though.


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## metti (May 10, 2010)

I would just like to point out a couple of things. The OP indicated that they want to spend between $5K and $12K and yet people have filled this thread with suggestions that are way out of that budget, unless he wants a computer with wing (which it seems like he doesn't).

MagicQ MQ100Pro is several thousand too much and the MQ200 is even more.
Jands Vista T2 is waay too much
An Ion could work if he doesn't need fader wings and he has a good relationship with a dealer but if he needs wings it is likely going to be out of budget.
Whoever suggested a GrandMA2 clearly has never seen the pricing on one of those (think 2-3x the OP's budget even for an Ultra Lite)
A Hog 2 of any variety (other than OnPC systems) is way out of their budget
Also, the Virtuoso is made by PRG (formerly by Vari-Lite) not by Strand and there is only one of them, not a series. Also they are super expensive.
The M1 has an MSRP of roughly $16K which means it will be near impossible to get one including a road case for in your budget.

To the OP: In order for people to give better answers we need more info. How many playbacks/subs do you want/need. Do you care about built in vs external monitors? How many universes do you need? Are you willing to buy used? In the meantime I would recommend in no particular order:
Used Hog IPC
Used Avolites Pearl (Various versions fit your budget)
Used Congo Jr
Used Vector Orange
New Element
New Ion if no wings are needed
Laptop and a wing (MagicQ, Hog 3, etc)


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## Synchronize (May 10, 2010)

I'm just going to throw my two cents on the Element.

Don't get me wrong, its a great little console. I love it and its great for my current venue. We have a rack of conventionals and the occasional rental of some movers, scrollers, etc. It definatly has the power to control all of that and its pretty easy. BUT not having encoders and a touchscreen with a list of pallets laid out of in front of you is a real pain in the rear.

If you KNOW that your rig will regularly contain movers or the like and you have 12k budgeted for a console, please, do yourself a favor and use it. ETC makes great stuff. 
The IONs not bad, but I wouldn't use it for a rig FULL of movers either. If you have a few then its great, but I find that is too much trouble. I don't know what the EOS goes for but I wouldn't mind sitting behind one.

I love High Ends boards. I've programmed on a Wholehog II and own a Jands HOG 1k Echelon. Haven't messed with their newer stuff yet but I'm sure its just as great. Look at the Roadhog and HOG iPC.

I've also done some work on a MA Ultra Lite. Its by far my favorite. If you can afford it I would get MA. I don't know what these go for either, but it's well worth it. It's completely versatile and the easiest to use in my opinion.

EDIT: Almost for got the most important thing. Ask your local dealers for demos. They should be more than happy to bring you in and let you play with a few boards. Demo as many as you are interested in. Theres nothing worse than spending twelve grand and then being let down when you get the equipment.


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## kendal69 (May 10, 2010)

I guess I wasn't as clear as I thought I was. In the convention industry you never ever have one type of venue or a specific use for a lighting console. One day you may need the console for simple up lighting with some timed fade, one day you may do a fashion show, next time a rock and roll production, then the customer may want a full cirque production or an off off Broadway type play done in a ballroom and lastly it may be used for area lighting and or a trade show. In other words the console will not sit in one place and used ONLY for ( fill in the blank ).

So what I am reading here with the responses is great this is actually what I'm looking for. I like the responses that say this board can be learned in a day, this can and can't be done with this board. YES that's what I needed to hear.

I got two quotes today for the ION at around 9K and the M1 at 10K so they are right there price wise. The GrandMA Ulta light came in at 17K.

Not saying I wouldn't perhaps go to the 17K if it the "gold standard" which is what I am also hearing is GrandMA

I'm just so tired of having consoles get outdated in front of me.


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## SteveB (May 10, 2010)

kendal69 said:


> I got two quotes today for the ION at around 9K and the M1 at 10K so they are right there price wise. The GrandMA Ulta light came in at 17K.
> 
> Not saying I wouldn't perhaps go to the 17K if it the "gold standard" which is what I am also hearing is GrandMA
> 
> I'm just so tired of having consoles get outdated in front of me.



I went to an Ion in October. Only yesterday did I get to run a type event that might have been done on a Hog in years past. Is an Ion a Hog III of today ? - No, but it still can do a great job of busking with a bunch of ML's and LED's, as I found out this weekend.

What I like best is the adaptability. One day it's doing a cued theater event, maybe using cues imported from an Expression and a single 20 fader wing, the next using 80 or 120 faders/subs as channel faders, cue lists and effects for a one-off, then next adding 4 Elation floor ML's to the standard rig for a Reggae show, or 10 Color Blasts on a religious concert. It helps IMMENSELY to have dual touch screen LCD's for these type of things as you can open 6 different Direct Select screens of assorted Palettes and Presets. OS Version 1.9 with Tabs made life so much easier and with ETC doing constant upgraes, it only gets better. Lot of console for the money.


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## metti (May 10, 2010)

I stand corrected on M1 pricing. If you can stretch to 17K that changes everything. For a hair under 17K you can get a Chamsys MQ100Pro which I would say without any hesitation is the best light board any made. Don't get me wrong, I love the GrandMA and the MaxXYZ and Hog 3 OS is decent but in my opinion none of them are as powerful (especially with media) or well designed as the MagicQ software. I would definitely encourage you to see about a demo with a Chamsys board. Where are you located specifically?


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## metti (May 10, 2010)

Now that I read my post it sounds a bit one minded so here are some additional comments on other boards:

You can't really go wrong with a GrandMA Ultra Light. It is a really good piece of equipment. The only thing to think about is the fact that you are buying a decade+ old piece of technology which you had mentioned wasn't super appealing to you.

The M1 looks pretty cool. I haven't used it but I have used the original MaxXYZ and the MaxXYZ software and I am a fan. It is pretty intuitive which I like.

ETC stuff is always a pretty safe bet but I don't feel that it is necessarily the best choice for a board that might be used for anything approximating a rock show. I would take an Ion (or Eos if the budget is there) in a second for theatre work but if there is a chance that I might have to busk something than I would NOT want their stuff.

I will second the other comments about getting demos. You have a big enough budget that dealers should be giving you some serious time and you should take advantage of that to demo any board that is within your budget and is even remotely interesting.


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## Syphilis (May 10, 2010)

I'm gonna go with the general feeling on this thread and recommend what I've worked with personally and enjoyed, which is the Ion. The standard for my school is an Express, which is an absolute nightmare to program MLs onto, and can take up pages and pages of submasters if you want to get close to usability for even Seachangers, but for larger productions we regularly rent higher board models, and the Ion has been by far my favorite. It handles any kind of intelligent fixture with ease, and I've yet to find a modern instrument it doesn't have a premade profile for. My only caveat (and perhaps this is because my mind was damaged when I learned the Express) is that it's 'intuitive' methods of recording cues are rather confusing. I often find myself switching Tracking on and off mid dry tech, for example, and there's almost always some weird interpretation of my commands that I have to go back and fix. This has gotten easier as I've become more comfortable with the system, but the "do it for you" attitude of the software still sometimes trips me up. Besides that, a great console.


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## kendal69 (May 10, 2010)

Seriously is there a better place on the planet where you can ask a question and get a boat load of great people to MORE THAN answer your question? NO!.

I'm in Southern Ca. So it looks like I need to Demo the Chamsys and ION - and if I can find a dealer that has an M1 do that one also. GrandMA has a site MA-share.net and I'm reading a lot of issues. I don't have time or energy for issues, so I'll let them go. 

Yes the other part is support so I need to give thought to that also and I think ETC is the tops in that department as you guys have said. 

With all this new LED stuff hitting the market I'm looking at a board that can handle all the new stuff.

Question with the ION, Chansys, - can you write your own light profiles or does ETC have to write them?

Thanks again for all the input it was perfect, Nothing better than hearing from people using the boards rather than the sales guys that say their board is the best on the planet.

This is funny - Note this is in the UK, see if it looks familiar. VERY FUNNY

http://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=26547


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## metti (May 11, 2010)

I don't know whether the Ion lets you write your own profiles but the Chamsys definitely does. It is also worth noting that with either company, you can ask for them to write you one and they'll turn it around ridiculously fast (sometimes in hours). If you shoot me an email ([email protected]) I can hook you up with someone at PRG Distribution who can arrange a Chamsys demo for you.


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## Parker (May 11, 2010)

renegadeblack said:


> It really depends on how many MLs you're going to have. If it's going to be mostly conventionals and scrollers with maybe one or two MLs, then I'd say that the Element is the best way to go. I just got one last week at school (upgrade from an Innovator) and it's great so far.



Really... we just upgraded our system from an Innovator 600 to an Element as well... it has been a blast!


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## JCarroll (May 11, 2010)

The Element I use lets you create new profiles so ION should too


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## uolightinguy (May 11, 2010)

Chamsys MagicQ PC. it's very easy to use.. and not very complex to setup, program and run.


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## fredthe (May 11, 2010)

You might also check out the Stand Palette/Light Palette series... comparable to the ETC Ion/Eos.

One consideration might be how many "pieces" there are to a board. Since you will be setting up and moving constantly, having a board as one integrated unit may be an advantage. Maybe something that can support multiple (external) monitors for complex shows, but which you can also use with one (or none) for the simple stuff.

-Fred


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## MNicolai (May 11, 2010)

Congo Jr. w/o Master Playback Wing

I wouldn't mind having a second one around. I usually use the wing for programming, but not as much for shows (but sometimes). It would make the most sense to round off our lighting controls by having a second Jr. and having a playback wing that floats between both consoles depending on how they're being used.

It's a great console that I've fallen in love with. the downside is that Congo seems to be a console that requires a lot of personality in programming. Each person will have their own style for using docks, setting up channel layouts, organizing masters and using direct selects. There are dozens of ways in Congo to achieve the same (or similar) results, which can make it difficult for one programmer to take over where another has left off. I find myself negotiating with touring LD's coming into our roadhouse how to setup the console prior to their arrival.

It's also not intuitive at first glance and Congo programmers are few and far between here in the states. Few people walking into the theatre for a one-off are going to be able to figure it out unless I program their entire show onto sliders or the Go button. It's not unusual for me to be on call during rehearsals or shows when someone else is operating should they encounter problems. Once you put glue on the seat and sit down, learning the syntax is pretty easy and comes pretty naturally, but not so naturally that I'd want to teach an LD in the morning and have them operate the entire show later that night.

When we got ours, we had to seek advice from either Mecca or a college a few hours from here across the state line that had a handful of Congo programmers. About a year after we got ours, another roadhouse 20mi down the highway picked one up too, though.

It's especially nice having a console with built-in training projects and tutorials. It really helps our students learn how to program ML's without having to have them in the space. They can also practice programming from their home PC's.

IMO, there's two downsides to Congo, though. I've spent a lot of time working on Congo -- more than Express lately, and find it difficult to switch back into @Mode thinking instead of RPN. I can't touch an Express without accidentally trying to type something in using RPN. The easiest lighting console to use then becomes really difficult. Also, our student programmers don't have much to look forward to after they graduate. Their valuable assets to theatres with Congo, but that's such a small slice of the pie when it comes to lighting consoles currently in use in the US.

Regardless of all of that, I still love that Congo gives everyone something to argue about. It seems like people will either swear by Congo or pay to never see one again.

If you're not willing to learn, don't ever get a Congo. On the other hand, _every_ single function in Congo is no more than a couple keystrokes away if you know what you're doing.


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## bsulliv (May 11, 2010)

Last year I upgraded our space from a Strand 300 to an ETC Ion with a fader wing. We are a smaller space, 175 seats, 120 Dimmers, 4 VL1000s, and a mix of ETC S4 units. I have nothing bad to say, the board has been great, and the students that I work with have picked up the operation very quickly. You may not use all of the functions of the board but, the flexibility and room for expanded use were of the greatest assets. The compact portability of the board also makes tech from the house very easy, the board carries a small foot print, and the offline editor is top notch making it very easy to train and build shows offline before getting into the theatre.


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## kendal69 (May 11, 2010)

I just talked to Martin and the board won't hit the USA till June 16th so no demo on that one. 

The ION seems to be leading the pack here so far.


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## DanAyers (May 18, 2010)

Seeing that it's mid-may you might consider renting from a Martin dealer. You can probably negotiate that a percentage of rental fees will apply to the new board since a demo is not yet available.

Then you could properly evaluate the new console.

That said, I rarely choose to be one of the first buyers, I'll wait until 2-3 software updates have come out so I'm not finding all the little bugs.


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## ScottT (May 18, 2010)

Ion, got to use one this past weekend and I'm hooked. It was easy enough for me (an Express 125 user) to pick up and run conventionals and intelligents on. The encoder wheels and intensity wheel (?) were very helpful.


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## PaulP514 (May 19, 2010)

DanAyers said:


> That said, I rarely choose to be one of the first buyers, I'll wait until 2-3 software updates have come out so I'm not finding all the little bugs.


 
The M1 is now in production, the first batch will get in the US early June just in time for InfoComm in Las Vegas.

About the software, The M1 is based on over 8 years of software development. Of course no one can claim there's no bug in their console. But we know there's a dozen M1 in action around the globe and we are proud to say that it's been running smoothly all along. The software is really stable and mature. Some of them still have the same software since PL&S in Frankfurt (March 2010) and runs like a charm. At this point we are adding a load of new features for the next software release.

Regarding the price, I must remind people that MSRP price means not much. check with a few reseller first as margins are different from a manufacturer to another. 
I'm sure one can find an M1 under 15K

Actually the M1 did its first US concert last weekend, Edward Motts was the board operator.
Photos are here:
Martin M-One | Facebook


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## muvment (May 20, 2010)

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Avolites. They're great boards and I like them much better than the hogs. But, that theater thing, I wasn't all that pleased with. So I solve this by not doing much theater.
The last decent sized gig I did, we had an Element and my Avolites and we switched several of the universes when the show ended and the party began.

However, Chamsys is really the best board available, and will remain so for many years to come. There really is no competitor. And no company can touch their response time. 

Anecdote: I emailed Chamsys on a late Friday night (PST) for an updated fixture profile. They had it in my email box within hours. And they're in Belgium (I think)!
2nd Anecdote: I called Martin's 24 hour support line when one of their LightJockey systems went down on a Saturday night at the largest club in the city. I got a call back on Wednesday asking what the problem was. I explained the issue and they said they'd call me back. That was 3 years ago. I'm still waiting for the call back. Obviously, I ripped out the LJ system, literally through it in the dumpster, and replaced it w/ a non-Martin controller.


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## mhinrichs (May 20, 2010)

kendal69 said:


> I'm in Southern Ca. So it looks like I need to Demo the Chamsys and ION - and if I can find a dealer that has an M1 do that one also.
> Yes the other part is support so I need to give thought to that also and I think ETC is the tops in that department as you guys have said.


 
Hi!

My name is Matthias and I am responsible for the M1 development at Martin. I am located in LA and I have an M1 sitting on my desk in Burbank. There are so far only two prototypes in the US so its a good opportunity to see a brand-new desk and talk to the guy who made it . I am not a sales person so there is no pressure or used car sales tactics from me.

OIn the support end I would say M1 is unbeatable in Socal as the Product Manager (me!) lives there 

We can take the M1 apart, turn it upside down and plug in our demo room rig into it so you can play with real fixtures. 

I think it would be great if we could meet up and I give you an overview of the desk in person. Since I came up with most of the way it looks and works I think I can answer all your questions. I would love to hear your feedback, even if you decide to use buy a different console in the end, then I'd like to know why so we can learn from it.
Honest and unbiased feedback is incredibly important for me as it will help make our products better in the future and I find everybodies approach to lighting programming very interesting and educational for me to improve our controllers.



This is my first post on CB, I have been a frequent reader for a long time.
If I can be of any help with anything regarding to Martin fixtures and controllers feel free to contact me directly by emailing me via the profile link.
I hope I can contribute positively, and no worries, I will not spam every console post with "buy Martin stuff" comments. If I can offer help as in this case I think its a fair thing though and I hope it does no annoy anybody. 

Anyway feel free to contact me and maybe we can exchange phone numbers for a quick chat. 
Good luck on your console hunt, there are many fine products out there and I sincerely hope you will give the M1 desk a fair chance.


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

I'm sorry if you or who ever told you this annecdote on LJ support.
For most of it I do reply to email regarding LJ support questions.
Considering there are several 10 of thousands LJ user in the world meaning more then probably all other controllers combined together. We do get a lot of questions. 
I can tell you that 90% of these are responded within 30 minutes upon receiving in the normal work hours. and usually it is no longer then 12 hours.

All this to say your annedote are point less here, one case in each camp does not make it the real fact.

If you spend some time on the Martin Controller forum you will see the % of satisfaction is very high. We do take care of our customers. and it is one reason Martin users stick with Martin.

I hope we can make it back to this person who did not receive proper attention "3 years ago" Too bad the hardware was trashed, as iti s still worth every penny.


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## kendal69 (May 20, 2010)

On my search to talk to a "dealer" about the M-1 here is my results.

Note after the first few phone calla to dealers my quest actually turned into a comedy sketch. I actually started an xcel spread sheet as I walked down the dealer list in my area.

Here's my advise to Martin. Contact all your dealers and inform them you have a new product coming out. Redo your dealer list to be sure that dealers actually still exist and numbers are good. 

How is it that I know more about the M1 than the 11 dealers I called?

I have never had such a hard time spending many thousands of dollars in my life.

Below is the result of calling 11 dealers in about an hour on the phone and a whole lot of long distant charges and I got absolutely NO WHERE, NADA , ZILCH. Yes I did take names and times etc. but left them off here, just the response to the question about info on the M1 is listed.


Don't know anything about it 
No we don't have and won't have one 
Number disconnected 
Speak with ------ will be in in three days 
Number Disconnected 
------ said "We don't stock anything, 
Don't know anything about it" 
Number disconnected 
-----------Asked if (I the customer) had a part number Never did find info on the M1 
See --------- on Monday same company as above 
No Answer Number not working

Maybe when I have more time and some left over minutes I'll continue my quest.


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

Well I guess someone is not reading the press release and internal news we are sending!!!

I forwarded your inquiries to Brad in the US... He knows about it...

And thanks for that feedback!


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

kendal69 said:


> How is it that I know more about the M1 than the 11 dealers I called?


 
Well back in the days I worked for a production house, it was the same, generally I knew more about the products then the resellers and many time evne more then the country importer. It's the nature of the business I guess, they focus on day to day things adn have no time for other tasks.

So just be proud of the fact you know more than them, that's how I got my job at Martin back then ;-)


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## kendal69 (May 20, 2010)

Paul Pelletier, I'm going to hang in there and try and get a demo.

The main question that I would like answered is the M1 easy and intuitive to use. With many employees I don't have the privilege to assign one person exclusively to the board. 

I don't expect a person to walk up and start using it, but I don't have time to re-train a programming language to each new person.

Any advice Paul?


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## muvment (May 20, 2010)

PaulP514 said:


> I'm sorry if you or who ever told you this annecdote on LJ support.
> For most of it I do reply to email regarding LJ support questions.
> Considering there are several 10 of thousands LJ user in the world meaning more then probably all other controllers combined together. We do get a lot of questions.
> I can tell you that 90% of these are responded within 30 minutes upon receiving in the normal work hours. and usually it is no longer then 12 hours.
> ...



The anecdotes are from personal experience. I called the 1800 24-hour support line I found on the Martin website.

And I agree, it is only 1 incident, and hopefully an isolated one. But it is the only experience I have with Martin support for their controllers.


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## Lotos (May 20, 2010)

I'm a little late to the party...

But I'll throw my voice in for the Strand Palette series... The big desks can be quite pricey, but the smaller desks (The 'Classic Palette II' for example.) can be had for quite a reasonable price... And they have all the same software features... Just fewer outputs, and a slightly less 'intuitive' control surface for moving lights.
Classic Palette II | Strand Lighting - A Philips Group Brand

You're able to select between several 'Strand Flavours' of 'Context'... Which should be familiar to almost any operator stepping into the space.

It can be used in a "Tracking" or "Live" mode as well, giving added versatility depending on operator preference.

The guys at Strand are also really helpful whenever you're having issues.
(Not saying the guys at Martin aren't... Paul's helped me with several Maxedia problems over the years... I think we spent over an hour on the phone after a software upgrade diagnosing the fact that I'm an idiot.)

Just another thought to toss into your pile.

Your local PRG and/or Strand Distributor should be able to hook you up with a demo model.


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

Hey Alex!

It's been a while!
How's things?

Yes that was in July last year when the new V4 came out!
BTW. 4.2 is now out, have you tried it?


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

muvment said:


> The anecdotes are from personal experience. I called the 1800 24-hour support line I found on the Martin website.
> 
> And I agree, it is only 1 incident, and hopefully an isolated one. But it is the only experience I have with Martin support for their controllers.


 
It can happen once a while that something goes wrong with the support line, 
I hope you can forgive us ;-0) .Now go find that LJ in the trash bin, it might still be there ...LOL


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## PaulP514 (May 20, 2010)

kendal69 said:


> Paul Pelletier, I'm going to hang in there and try and get a demo.
> 
> The main question that I would like answered is the M1 easy and intuitive to use. With many employees I don't have the privilege to assign one person exclusively to the board.
> 
> ...


 
But from the many trainings I did, yes I can say the software is intuitive with a very logical command line that you guess the commands on your own. No need to memorize awkward series of keystroke.

The interface is very graphical, not only rows and columns of numbers.

More important is the philosophy that remains what most of today’s moving light desk are using, i.e.: Tracking Cuelists system with a graphical interface and command line.
As I mentioned before, it takes less than 30 minutes to understand this desk for any semi experience programmer.


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## muvment (May 20, 2010)

PaulP514 said:


> It can happen once a while that something goes wrong with the support line,
> I hope you can forgive us ;-0) .Now go find that LJ in the trash bin, it might still be there ...LOL



No offense, but I hate LJ with such a passion...

On the other hand, I'm curious about the M1. You can make this up to me by, perhaps, demo-ing me an M1? Long term would be preferable.


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## kendal69 (May 21, 2010)

Matthias - 
Contact me and I will be there.


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## themuzicman (May 21, 2010)

I'd say go with an ION. Great little board, easy to learn, and quick to use.


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## mhinrichs (May 21, 2010)

muvment said:


> No offense, but I hate LJ with such a passion...
> 
> On the other hand, I'm curious about the M1. You can make this up to me by, perhaps, demo-ing me an M1? Long term would be preferable.


 
The M1 plus all other new products will be in Seattle June 2 and 3 as part of the "Brighter World" Roadshow. Contact Martin US for the exact times and locations.

http://www.martinpro.com/pressrelease/pressrelease.asp?id=626

http://www.martinpro.com/sub/us/roadshow.asp


I hope you can make it!


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## Taffey (May 23, 2010)

My school has an ETC Ion and we love it!! We run a 150 conventional and about 7 to 8 moving lights with this.


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## kdoolin (Jul 19, 2010)

I have only used the Jands Vista T2 at my church and love it. Few here have mentioned it, why? what am i missing on other boards?


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