# Intro to Carpentry Project



## whistler (Feb 10, 2012)

I'm a student working in a college scene shop where there isn't actually a technical theater program. Weird situation. We're currently working to develop a more cohesive introduction to carpentry for student workers. The people who know what they're doing all have good safety practices and we can pass that knowledge/instinct on to others.

Mostly I am looking for help coming up with a good project or two that can be used to introduce people to the practical uses of the tools we use every day: chop saw, table saw, panel saw, screw guns, pneumatic staplers/nailers, etc.

Dirty hippies that we are, most of our theater program is highly experimental and doesn't necessarily use much set, but a couple of times a year someone wants a huge set, or other student groups come in needing urgent help with projects for the TV program or whatever and the scope and time frame aren't really conducive to training people.

Any suggestions for projects that use those tools without using a lot of materials (small boxes, stools, whatever you can throw at me.) will be greatly appreciated. If you want to suggest other/additional ways of imparting this information to groups of 5-10 people at a time that would be great too!


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## rochem (Feb 10, 2012)

At my school, the first carpentry project for our Tech/Design majors is to build a small hollywood flat, about 2' tall. The flat also has a shape cut into the top of the frame. It's a very simple project, but that's really good for teaching the craft of scenic construction. The professor grades them very harshly, right down to staples that aren't perfectly horizontal or the facing extending 1/32" too far over the edge or visible glue or anything at all. It makes you use a couple different tools with minimal materials cost, and it teaches craft instead of just slapping a flat together.


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## shiben (Feb 10, 2012)

rochem said:


> At my school, the first carpentry project for our Tech/Design majors is to build a small hollywood flat, about 2' tall. The flat also has a shape cut into the top of the frame. It's a very simple project, but that's really good for teaching the craft of scenic construction. The professor grades them very harshly, right down to staples that aren't perfectly horizontal or the facing extending 1/32" too far over the edge or visible glue or anything at all. It makes you use a couple different tools with minimal materials cost, and it teaches craft instead of just slapping a flat together.


 
That would pretty much aggravate the crap out of me. I understand the glue and the overlap, but if someone is criticizing my staples being not perfectly horizontal, my interest and willingness to continue to do stuff like that is minimized. Its a **** staple.


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## Footer (Feb 10, 2012)

What do you need around the shop? Do you need lumber racks? Runoff tables? Storage bins? No point in building 300 stools...


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## techieman33 (Feb 10, 2012)

shiben said:


> That would pretty much aggravate the crap out of me. I understand the glue and the overlap, but if someone is criticizing my staples being not perfectly horizontal, my interest and willingness to continue to do stuff like that is minimized. Its a **** staple.


 
Agreed, building small flats is a good teaching tool, but grading them harshly not so much.


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## shiben (Feb 10, 2012)

techieman33 said:


> Agreed, building small flats is a good teaching tool, but grading them harshly not so much.


 
I can honestly say that if the TD had told me my work was crap when I started and given me a terrible grade in my first stagecraft class for staples being not straight or some BS like that, I would have told him to shove it and gone back to history. Glue and overlap? Fine. Staples that no one notices? Not ok.


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## whistler (Feb 10, 2012)

RE: the question about what we need around the shop. That's the problem I was getting at, we really don't need much right now, and people don't need 2' flats in their home (not that building flats isn't really good practice, I certainly built a lot of flats when I was starting out.) That's why I was looking for suggestions of things that take a minimum of materials but might still be useful to an individual. We are working through a fairly limited list of projects with people who are in the shop regularly, but when I get 5 costumers in for a day or two I don't really have time to bring them all up to speed on safety, design our new lumber racks, or new router table (for example) and then build it with them.

I'd like to have something that's consistent so it's a little easier to supervise, moderately useful to them and can be completed in a day or two even for people who are relatively unfamiliar with carpentry so that they have a sense of completion with having finished their project rather than coming back in a week to find that the router table was finished in their absence.


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## shiben (Feb 10, 2012)

whistler said:


> RE: the question about what we need around the shop. That's the problem I was getting at, we really don't need much right now, and people don't need 2' flats in their home (not that building flats isn't really good practice, I certainly built a lot of flats when I was starting out.) That's why I was looking for suggestions of things that take a minimum of materials but might still be useful to an individual. We are working through a fairly limited list of projects with people who are in the shop regularly, but when I get 5 costumers in for a day or two I don't really have time to bring them all up to speed on safety, design our new lumber racks, or new router table (for example) and then build it with them.
> 
> I'd like to have something that's consistent so it's a little easier to supervise, moderately useful to them and can be completed in a day or two even for people who are relatively unfamiliar with carpentry so that they have a sense of completion with having finished their project rather than coming back in a week to find that the router table was finished in their absence.


 
Without a class, I doubt you can have your kids be doing wood projects for 1-3 hours and then have them go do other things. At that point, its on to building the set IMO.


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## techieman33 (Feb 10, 2012)

If they're not going to be in the shop on a fairly regular basis I would just partner them up with someone who does know what's going on so they can just be gofers, hold things, etc. And as safety stuff comes up the experienced person can go over it at that time. And for the ones that have no interest in actually learning anything I would hand them some cleaning supplies and put them to work cleaning up around the shop or theater.


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## Van (Feb 10, 2012)

I would suggest Apple boxes and or Rehearsal cubes. Everybody needs/wants more rehearsal cubes. Great little project, gives you a chance to learn Mitre-ing, cleating, plunge cuts, routing, sanding and painting or staining. 

As a side note. An Imprperly seated staple in one flat has the potential to tear up the face of the flat next to it. If you don't align the things with the edge of your framing you run the chance of ripping muslin when you size the flat. The reason you learn to build a flat the correct way, and perfectly is so you can do it faster and faster when you need to cut corners. I belive someones tag line around here is :" first you learn the rules, then you can break them."


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## blackisthenewblack (Feb 10, 2012)

The first project we did was building stools. However, these were not your fancy shop class stools, but rather a 1'x2' "platform" that you bolt legs to. Then apply foam and upholster. You use a chop saw for the legs and platform, table saw for the platform top, drill, air ratchet for the legs, upholstery pneumatic stapler for the upholstering. If you want, make them router the legs and edges, or glue the thing together, or make the corners at 45s or some other fancy joint rather than butt joints.


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## Les (Feb 10, 2012)

Be careful about overdoing it with the stools or you could find yourself in the same situation these guys did:



Sorry, I've been on a Guffman kick lately.


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## josh88 (Feb 10, 2012)

If you had the time and somebody had the know how, making a real book shelf, or a few would actually be a good project. Anything where they have to follow some intricate plans and actually learn the basics of carpentry. If you can do fine and finish work stage carpentry comes easy. At least that is what I've found in my experience.


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## shiben (Feb 10, 2012)

Van said:


> I would suggest Apple boxes and or Rehearsal cubes. Everybody needs/wants more rehearsal cubes. Great little project, gives you a chance to learn Mitre-ing, cleating, plunge cuts, routing, sanding and painting or staining.
> 
> As a side note. An Imprperly seated staple in one flat has the potential to tear up the face of the flat next to it. If you don't align the things with the edge of your framing you run the chance of ripping muslin when you size the flat. The reason you learn to build a flat the correct way, and perfectly is so you can do it faster and faster when you need to cut corners. I belive someones tag line around here is :" first you learn the rules, then you can break them."


 
IIRC you dont size Hollywood flats, and the hard surface wont tear as easily as muslin will. And I will argue that a staple 5º-10º from horizontal is not going to cause a serious problem. Heck, I would imagine unless one was using a square, even the most careful one might be would have a tolerance of +/- 5º or possibly more.


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## JLNorthGA (Feb 10, 2012)

Try a Shaker style table (with or without drawers).
Or how about a simple Mission style desk?


If you really want to get some time, how about a Settee?


But seriously, you can knock out a Shaker style table in relatively short order.
The top needs careful cross cutting and ripping, followed by gluing and clamping. The aprons require careful cross cutting and ripping. You can then use a router to do mortises on the aprons (and legs). The legs require cross cutting, ripping and tapering. The assembly requires careful attention to detail and careful gluing.

If you choose to stain it and finish it, it will look fairly nice.

You can do it out of poplar or whatever. If you want plans, I can send you some.


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## shiben (Feb 10, 2012)

Les said:


> Be careful about overdoing it with the stools or you could find yourself in the same situation these guys did:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I've been on a Guffman kick lately.




Or singing a song from the "No Frills Revue", a show which ought to have died many years ago but stubbornly refuses to.


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## rochem (Feb 11, 2012)

shiben said:


> That would pretty much aggravate the crap out of me. I understand the glue and the overlap, but if someone is criticizing my staples being not perfectly horizontal, my interest and willingness to continue to do stuff like that is minimized. Its a **** staple.


 

techieman33 said:


> Agreed, building small flats is a good teaching tool, but grading them harshly not so much.


 

shiben said:


> I can honestly say that if the TD had told me my work was crap when I started and given me a terrible grade in my first stagecraft class for staples being not straight or some BS like that, I would have told him to shove it and gone back to history. Glue and overlap? Fine. Staples that no one notices? Not ok.


 
I may have exaggerated a little bit, that's my fault. He certainly doesn't take a protractor to your staples or anything like that, it's more just about having the staples generally appear neat and relatively equidistant, rather than just shot in all over the place. The point of the project is really just to get you to think about your craft and making things as perfect as you can get them. Is it a big deal when building flats if your staples are at many weird angles? No, not at all, and every shop in the world including ours will build flats like that. But asking you to spend extra time when you're first learning helps to teach the "right" way first as well as instill a sense of pride in the work you do.


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## Van (Feb 11, 2012)

shiben said:


> IIRC you dont size Hollywood flats, and the hard surface wont tear as easily as muslin will. And I will argue that a staple 5º-10º from horizontal is not going to cause a serious problem. Heck, I would imagine unless one was using a square, even the most careful one might be would have a tolerance of +/- 5º or possibly more.


 
You DO size Hollywoods , or Studios if they are covered with a layer of muslin. A "Hard surface" or Luan Covered flat is just as susceptible as Muslin is to damage. In some ways it's even worse as the repair can take twice as long. Perhaps in your world you can get away with gouged, scratched or ripped surfaces When half of my audience is less than 20 feet from any point of our stage I cannot.

I notice, " Lighting designer, Electrician and Student", Being listed as your "Occupation". Perhaps you should leave carpentry advice to the folks that actually do it ?


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## shiben (Feb 11, 2012)

Van said:


> You DO size Hollywoods , or Studios if they are covered with a layer of muslin. A "Hard surface" or Luan Covered flat is just as susceptible as Muslin is to damage. In some ways it's even worse as the repair can take twice as long. Perhaps in your world you can get away with gouged, scratched or ripped surfaces When half of my audience is less than 20 feet from any point of our stage I cannot.
> 
> I notice, " Lighting designer, Electrician and Student", Being listed as your "Occupation". Perhaps you should leave carpentry advice to the folks that actually do it ?


 
Edited to more adequately express my thoughts: 

I will admit, I had not considered the covering of a hard flat with muslin. In my (limited) experience as a student, I have not come across that process, but I can see advantages. I think I may have mistakenly implied that it is ok to make things poorly when you are new at doing things, when in fact that was not my intention at all. I was originally responding to what I considered an unreasonable expectation, that every staple be literally perfectly horizontal, especially considering the people constructing it. My point was intended to be that being too hard on a volunteer crew will send many of them packing and make sure they never want to work for you again. Having worked with a large number of these people, it can be a serious issue when you are understaffed in the shop and rely on volunteers or people trying to get their shop hours done, as then they check out and do less than they would normally. Personally, I like to take the time to make nice things because I take pride in making them well. However, the fact remains that when one builds a flat, there is a tolerance, as in all things, that must be met but inside that tolerance it is ok. I would guess 5 or 10 degrees is probably fine, but not having done very much with broadway flats, I dont know if that is too loose or ok. In fact, I am curious to know. At any rate, I think it would be counter productive in a project designed to familiarize students with basic woodworking to make a narrower tolerance than required the standard for passing. Obviously, on issues such as an edge lining up, the tolerance is measured in fractions of an inch, and since its not terribly hard to feel when its close enough, thats pretty easy. Cleaning up glue spills is easy and basic and needed, so do it. Perfectly level staples is less so, as long as they are close enough. As long as they are neatly done, within tolerance, and not all over the board, there is probably not a problem, thus, why force the issue with people who will walk out on your program forever if you rankle them too much? 

On a more personal note, I do perform carpentry work. However, its covered under the "student" moniker, seeing as its part of classes. I get paid to do the other stuff, thus a separate entity. I used to get paid to do carpentry work as well as electrics. Its not like I have never done it and dont have any idea how to build stuff. Also, when in a smaller black box, where my former company worked for 2 years, you cant get away with minor dings either. Probably a fairly similar scenario to yours. I spent a fair amount of time fixing dings and nicks in luan, so I do understand, but I will stand by the statement that a staple at a slight angle is less likely to tear luan than muslin. That said, I respect craftsmanship and craftspeople, and again, I work hard to make nice things.


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## Van (Feb 13, 2012)

I think, all too often, we forget that folks from all over the spectum of experience visit this forum. Do I think a staple being 5 degrees off square will make or break a flat ? No, it wont but the important thing to remember, as I quoted earlier, you have to learn the rules before you can break them. I simply do not want the Carpentry Forum to devolve into a place where " Just git it dun" is the meme. Too often the idea of cutting corners portrays that idea.


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## shiben (Feb 13, 2012)

Van said:


> I simply do not want the Carpentry Forum to devolve into a place where " Just git it dun" is the meme. Too often the idea of cutting corners portrays that idea.



Thats fair enough and makes plenty of sense.


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## josh88 (Feb 13, 2012)

I have to thank my father for making me watch this old house and New Yankee Workshop and then my first shop manager in college because all of that drilled precision, time, and care into me. My Manager held all of our work to exacting precise standards, and it sucked because we would build things that we thought were "good enough" and he would pick it apart and say do it better. Ultimately it taught us to take a little bit more time and do it right the first time and I'm a great carpenter now because of it. Rushing, and "good enough for theatre" shouldn't happen. Just because something will get torn down after a run or we don't see all sides of it, doesn't mean it shouldn't still be well built and able to last indefinitely and take abuse. Doing it right is the way to do it. Period.


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