# How high is "Too High"?



## MercyTech (May 7, 2010)

Hey all,
I am applying for a tech director/theatre manager position at a local high school, as they are building a brand new theatre. As part of my interview, they showed me the site still under construction. The structure is poured, walls and slab are done, and electrical and framing is just going in. It will be a 250-300 seat venue, with low raked seating and a medium sized stage. 

But the booth placement is what concerns me. It is about 15-20 feet above the rear of the theatre, and the vantage is way higher than I am used to in any theatre I have worked in.

My two concerns are that you can't set lights from the booth at all, having no "audience" view of the show (I do not know if they have run a DMX port to the seats to plug in a board), and if the lights are low in the theatre, the techs will basically be looking at a reflection of the board and tech table in the the glass of the booth window from that angle.

Do any of you work in a skybooth? Any tips?


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## rwhealey (May 7, 2010)

Yeah, it wasn't a problem.

It was close enough for everyday shows, and if really good lighting was required, the LD just sat in the audience with a headset and called the cues to a board operator, who then wrote them.

The glass window was angled to deal with the reflection problem (and probably the acoustics problem as well).


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## DanAyers (May 7, 2010)

Well there's really not an answer to that. The Folly in Kansas City has the booth about 5 stories above the stage. What you have there is actually pretty common. Typically what will happen is you can set up a tech table in the middle of your auditorium. Sometimes it's an actual table, sometimes it's plywood over the tops of a couple rows of seats. Move the lighting console there and program your cues. Then run the show, from the booth. 

If you have not run DMX, now's a good time to get it added, or have them run a dedicated line of cate5e cable and add Pathway or ETC ACN/DMX Gateway's. This will be my suggestion as it will allow you to expand and grow as technology develops. You can also run a line of DMX Cable (Beldon 9729, West Penn DA2402), or use the W-DMX transmitter and receiver. I'm not as keen on W-DMX for this application & purchasing a backup would be wise incase someone spills a soda on it or somethign crazy like that (seen it done, not pretty).

I don't know what console you have, but a remote focuse controller of some sort would also be a wise investment. ETC has one for the iphone, if you all have an ion/eos. Most other boards $5K up that would be a good fit for your theater also have a focuse unit of some sort available also. this handheld device is a great tool you can use focusing lights, to bring up just the light you need so you can focus it. Being that you're a small high scool you can probably find an extra student and yell across the room which would work just as well.


Sound is a different issue entirely, for that I would recommend placing the console in a central location near the last row of seats. Oftentimes people will remove a few seats & build a cabinet to house the console, there's also several cabinet suppliers who manufacture good ones. Make sure you have something to keep it locked up since you'll have a lot of traffic through your place.

Hope those tips help. They're not appropriate for all applications, but have proven true with many of the high schools I've worked with in the past. 

Dan Ayers


P.S. I'm new to this forum, does it have spell check?


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## rochem (May 7, 2010)

Yeah, what you've described is pretty much a standard booth setup. Booths aren't designed to make us comfortable or to make our jobs easier, they're designed to be out of the way and eliminate as few seats as possible. I've heard of venues where the lighting console is in a totally separate part of the building, with only a television monitor and a speaker to see and hear the stage. When you're cueing and programming the show, you really shouldn't be in the booth anyway, as you'd likely be at the back of the theatre. Generally a tech table is set up about midway back in the orchestra section, and the lighting console is programmed from there. If you can't move the console (due to cost, lack of cables, etc.), then at least sit the designer at the tech table and he can cue the show over comms.

If the angle really is that extreme that you almost can't see the stage at all, I would recommend getting a television in there with a live feed of the stage, from a camera mounted somewhere in the house. While you would never use this for programming, it would at least show you if something obvious happened, like if the entire stage suddenly blacked out unintentionally. But any designing should be done from the house, not from the booth.


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## MPowers (May 8, 2010)

When I first started in this business, board operators were in a room isolated from the stage. Couldn't see anything, all cues came from the SM and you had to trust his call and count. Each operator ran 14 or 28 dimmers on one or two "Piano Boards". In the summer every one stripped down to shorts or a swimming suit, no tops, cause the dimmers were 3K plates, (no such thing as a female board op then.....darn it). Any lamp not at 100% created heat at the dimmer, located at the other end of a 24" push rod from the operating handle. Bright comedys, fun musicals, great! Heats out on the stage. Dark dramas, lots of night scenes, (Student Prince) moody subject (Cats or Phantom... if those had been running then) and all the dim light turns into heat in the light booth/room. Someone ask me about "3 dimmer Boards" and "4 dimmer Boards" and "crotch cues" and patching with the Old style stage plugs with the exposed copper strip down the side. 

Angle a little steep? Gee, at least you can still see the stage! 

Now, back on your page, the worst I knew was the original U of Maine PAC opened in 84 IIRC. The "designed" light booth location was center of the #1 FOH catwalk. Aprox 60 degrees down to the front of the stage and 45' above the stage. The board op had to stand up on tiptoes and lean over the console to see the stage. Of course only the apron and first 10' were visible. I'll tell you the story of the design in some future post, a story in itself. Oh, by the way, did I mention the only access to the light booth position was by the 50' ladders behind the wall ports, then across the FOH cats to the booth, or go to the second floor back stage, climb a 20' ladder and walk across the grid and across a center house cat to the #1 cat. The cat walks were all in full view of the audience and made of open grating. 

Anyway, I had railed about the booth location for months to no effect. Come the Grand Opening night, college pres, state gov, etc. in attendance. I was in the main cross over aisle talking to the college pres and his guests when the event board op came up to me (very planed and on purpose) and asked how to get to the booth. She was wearing a very attractive and *very* short skirt and 4" heels. I pointed to the laders and open catwalks and gave her directions. Her "shocked" look and "you've got'a be kidding me" expression was priceless. If she didn't make a living as an actress it wasn't lack of talent. Next day the college pres contacted me about relocating the booth. 

Now, what was that I heard about a booth only 20' above stage height????

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.


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## MercyTech (May 8, 2010)

Your post made me laugh and think of "Well, we had it tough! We used to live in a small paper bag in the middle of a septic tank!" (I am sure I do not need to list the reference here...)

Anyway, I realize that many venues have way different set-ups, for many different reasons. But if I get this job, I want to be able to make good, practical suggestions before the theatre and booth are finished.

For example, I would imagine it would be helpful to install DMX ports in key locations to help with focusing the lights, as well as adding connections to sound and video so that choreographers and student could run projection and music off of their laptops and ipods while near the stage.

This is perhaps the kind of thing that only people who have a great deal of experience would consider, and that the people who are building the space may have not considered.

I appreciate the help and suggestions.


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## derekleffew (May 8, 2010)

MercyTech said:


> ... But if I get this job, I want to be able to make good, practical suggestions before the theatre and booth are finished. ...



Not to rain on your parade, but if you get this job, your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions (as well as ours), won't matter squat. As anyone who has been through the process will attest, once a project leaves the design phase, any and all changes are next to impossible for a multitude of reasons. You'll likely find it better to plan for the alterations you'd like to implement once the building is turned over, rather than during construction. It seems wrong and wasteful, but that's the way it is. Hence the reason having a Theatre Consultant (Theatre Consultants, Why you need a theatre consultant...) is vitally important.


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## MPowers (May 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> ...... once a project leaves the design phase, any and all changes are next to impossible...... plan for the alterations you'd like to implement once the building is turned over, rather than during construction. It seems wrong and wasteful, but that's the way it is. Hence the reason having a Theatre Consultant .......



Derek is quite right about both points. Changes now are almost impossible and having a real Theatre Consultant is vital. At this point the only thing you might be able to implement, if it is not already there, if you get the job, would be the addition of DMX, 120vac and (if intercom is not wireless) headset stations placed in the center of the house for tech.

Michael Powers
Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.


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## Chris15 (May 9, 2010)

MPowers said:


> Derek is quite right about both points. Changes now are almost impossible and having a real Theatre Consultant is vital. At this point the only thing you might be able to implement, if it is not already there, if you get the job, would be the addition of DMX, 120vac and (if intercom is not wireless) headset stations placed in the center of the house for tech.



And even that's not going to be pretty given the slab's poured and so options for getting conduit installed are far fewer...


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## museav (May 9, 2010)

If it is a typical high school project, and especially one where conduit and framing is already going in, then getting many things changed at this point is going to be very difficult as typically changes at this point relate to Change Orders which relate to additional cost - even if they actually cost less (I had one project that went through three Change Orders to move some electrical boxes, they ended up right back where they originally started but since the Change Orders to move them each time had been approved along the way they ended up paying for the boxes and installation four times).

If you take the position you might be well served to ask about seeing the Program for the facility (the design document that defines the general needs and functionality that are the basis of the building design) and to be able to meet with the Architect and/or Theatre Consultant(s) to have them describe their intent and what you are getting. You may not like everything that you find, but at least you may gain some insights into why the venue is the way it is.


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## MercyTech (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the information guys. I will let you know how it progresses.


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