# large 3d tree



## Mark Warner

I am currently tasked with designing the set for Arkansas Bear, which along with other things calls for a large tree on the set. We are wanting to make it to be 3 demensional (2d trees just don't look right) and it should be rather larger. I'm thinking it will be about 16 feet tall, with a trunk diameter of about 4 feet. The tree is the main component of the set, so we have most of the build to spend just on it. The tree also has to ''open up '' to create a prison for one of the characters, ( I'm actually not super worried about this part, I have an idea to make 2 branches tie him up). I have thought about using a 1x4 skeleton with chicken wire and spray foam, but I don't exactly know where to start when it comes to the spray foam. Does anyone have any other suggestions to create this? Or does anyone have any suggestions on where I should buy the spray foam\ how to go about getting it to work. 
Thanks


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## MarshallPope

My go-to method for these types of textures is to use chicken wire or similar to get the major ridges and then cover that with a heavier muslin dipped in paint, working in additional texture as you are smushing it into place. You may also want to search for the article on here about VSSSD.


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## dbaxter

We made this tree using 1x2's and chicken wire as a base and then rolls and rolls of cheap (Harbor Freight) masking tape. Some crumpled up paper in places, covered with tape. Painting the 'bark' to look real is key.


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## Amiers

I'm a fan of sonotubes they are solid and easy to mud on and paint and can be bought in about an size you want. And easy to slip over and frame built.


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## Dionysus

Was about to say I've seen a lot of different approaches to tress.

Sonotube is a great building material for this, rather sturdy yet light. Perfectly round. May want to reinforce it depending on specifics (branches mainly). Often clad with foam or chickenwire and whatever (seen plaster once and it was a PIG). With sprayfoam you can spray the outside of the tube (don't use the little cans, actually use a portable sprayfoam unit or get an insulation company to come in, works a million times better) and then shape the foam easily into the trunk (don't want it perfectly round).
As Amiers said you CAN mud directly to the sonotube but you can get a lot more definition with something to build it out further in areas.

I've also glued sheets of foam insulation directly onto the sonotube and shaped from there. Cover in cheesecloth and then paint.

I've also seen a tree made from a kee-clamp structure of pipe, with loops all covered in fabric. was really cool, with a pupeteer inside making the branches and trunk move, etc.


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## bobgaggle

I've built trees out of chicken wire covered sono tube and spray foamed, but don't go with the cans! Too much of a headache. I also built a tree with chicken wire and dope, which I thought worked better for the texture we wanted, you can check out some photos here (poor quality but they get the idea across)


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## Mark Warner

bobgaggle said:


> I've built trees out of chicken wire covered sono tube and spray foamed, but don't go with the cans! Too much of a headache. I also built a tree with chicken wire and dope, which I thought worked better for the texture we wanted, you can check out some photos here (poor qualitybut they get the idea across)


 Thats pretty much exactly what I was looking for, it looks great. Its hard to tell but did you use actual tree branches?


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## briancon7

This is a picture from a show I did. We built the tree using chicken wire and internal supports covered in muslin


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## kicknargel

If you do use spray foam, pay attention to its flammability. The kind in cans is very flammable and not appropriate on stage. Not sure about the pro insulation kind.


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## SHCP

I use a different technique to make trees. I take building paper and paint a long striped wood grain texture the length of the paper, and then crinkle it up sideways. Once it is painted and wrinkled, I wrap it around the tree trunk frame. It catches a lot of shadows and looks very realistic in the right light. It is a paper product, so you can't have it too close to lights, but building paper is cheap and can be treated with flame retardant sprays if you think it may be a risk. I have never had a problem with it.
Tim


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## kiwitechgirl

For some serious tree inspiration, have a look at this thread...


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## bobgaggle

Mark Warner said:


> Thats pretty much exactly what I was looking for, it looks great. Its hard to tell but did you use actual tree branches?



We dressed it up with actual branches/vines, the idea was that it was a super old tree that had been there forever and the rest of the foliage had grown up around it.


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## kicknargel

What is "building paper"?


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## VCTMike

kicknargel said:


> What is "building paper"?



Probably this type of product:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-35-in-x-140-ft-Brown-Builder-s-Paper-35140/202040749


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## SHCP

VCTMike said:


> Probably this type of product:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Trimaco-35-in-x-140-ft-Brown-Builder-s-Paper-35140/202040749


That is exactly what it is.


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## Robert

I used Sonotube cut up the back to taper at the top and added real tree branches. Reinforced with 2 x 4 as needed. The tube was first covered in muslin and gathered to look like bark. We then covered that with a gauze to soften the fabric look. Added real branches which we blended in with the gauze covering. This was for August Wilson's "Fences."


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## BrianWolfe

We have made them that way many times. Back the chiken wire with paper so you don't waste foam on the inside. NCS is a great source for the froth pak foam system which I have used since 1980 and still think is one of the best. Ask for Mike.
http://www.ncssupply.com/FrothPak.aspx
You willl need to coat the tree to protect the foam after it is carved.


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## BSchend

So I'm embarking on my journey of Into the Woods and need some quick opinions and suggestions, having never done trees or bark texture before.

1. Cinderella's tree and the tree/branch for them to sit on for "no one is alone" I'm going to do with chicken wire. I had planned on trying fabric as the texture layer (burlap or muslin), but finally got the photo page for bob's "The Color Purple" tree to work and I think I might do the dope method instead. Along those lines, what size chicken wire would you suggest, and is anything put over the wire before the dope? (in the pictures it doesn't appear so, but could be wrong. Guessing the dope has to be pretty thick if that's the case).

2. For the other 3d trees I had planned on trying SHCP's suggestion of paper over sonotube forms due to expediency of construction. (Forms can be pre-made and then paper painted and attached during set building at the theater). Only issue is that the 8 foot section I tried out looked horrible, exactly what it was, paper crumpled up on a tube. Any suggestions? Also getting the stuff to attach with staples was tough, but I'm worried using spray adhesive would be worse if I need to adjust anything.

Notes about the production is that I'm 4 weeks out from load-in/tech week, won't have access to anything bigger than my 2 car garage to build in before 3 weeks, and the ENTIRE load-in/set build/tech week is 4 days so pre-building in pieces that can easily be moved, or quickly finished will be a plus.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.


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## BSchend

Also it appears finding 1/2" hex netting is tough (or expensive), but 1/2" hardware cloth appears more available. I'm guessing though the hardware cloth (essentially welded wire, will be tougher to work with). Will 1" hex netting work (obviously covered with something before the dope?


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## Elizabeth Fowler

Amiers said:


> I'm a fan of sonotubes they are solid and easy to mud on and paint and can be bought in about an size you want. And easy to slip over and frame built.


I know I could look up sonotubes, but am new to this site and thought it would be fun to hear from someone who likes to use them. What are they? Any photos of what you make? Thx for replying.


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## josh88

Sonotubes are concrete forms. They are cardboard cylinders that normally would be filled and then removed. Great for the base of tree trunks, columns, dock posts, masts, etc... Available at any big box store or lumber yard.

www.sonotube.com


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## Elizabeth Fowler

Thx for the info on sonotubes, Josh


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## BSchend

They sell the tubes at HD and Lowes in 4ft lengths. You can order longer lengths from Sonotube directly, but the cost is NOT worth the length. I'll have to upload the pictures of the trees I made for my recent ITW production. I had 3 16' trees using the tubes, but cut in half. So 2 tubes per tree. I used the 16", 12" and 10" tubes covered in the brown paper (from HD). Cutting them in half allowed me to widen them slightly to make a larger tree from a smaller tube (that would depend on your sight lines). Definitely used fire retardant, since paper/cardboard/wood would be a nice effect (but only once). 

Before they were covered in paper I was able to manage standing and controlling them myself (wouldn't recommend, but give you an idea of weight).


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## VCTMike

Elizabeth Fowler said:


> Thx for the info on sonotubes, Josh



Smaller diameter (~ 5") tubes are generally available from carpet dealers and are about 12'-14' long. I used some to make birch trees by cutting them open spreading them to about 6-7 1/2". Looked good when painted. Don't forget the fire retardant though...


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## robartsd

Elizabeth Fowler said:


> I know I could look up sonotubes, but am new to this site and thought it would be fun to hear from someone who likes to use them. What are they? Any photos of what you make? Thx for replying.


Sonotubes are used by the construction industry to make round concrete columns. They are basicly a heavyweight paper tube.

Edit: I didn't realize the question asked fell at the end of the page.


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## Elizabeth Fowler

BSchend said:


> They sell the tubes at HD and Lowes in 4ft lengths. You can order longer lengths from Sonotube directly, but the cost is NOT worth the length. I'll have to upload the pictures of the trees I made for my recent ITW production. I had 3 16' trees using the tubes, but cut in half. So 2 tubes per tree. I used the 16", 12" and 10" tubes covered in the brown paper (from HD). Cutting them in half allowed me to widen them slightly to make a larger tree from a smaller tube (that would depend on your sight lines). Definitely used fire retardant, since paper/cardboard/wood would be a nice effect (but only once).
> 
> Before they were covered in paper I was able to manage standing and controlling them myself (wouldn't recommend, but give you an idea of weight).



Thanks for the advice -- and the humor! All the best, Elizabeth


VCTMike said:


> Smaller diameter (~ 5") tubes are generally available from carpet dealers and are about 12'-14' long. I used some to make birch trees by cutting them open spreading them to about 6-7 1/2". Looked good when painted. Don't forget the fire retardant though...


Thx for the feedback!


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## SHCP

Regarding longer paper tubes, try going to sign printers, carpet stores and paper plants. They will often have long cardboard rolls of different diameters and many are willing to give them to you for free.


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## Elizabeth Fowler

SHCP said:


> Regarding longer paper tubes, try going to sign printers, carpet stores and paper plants. They will often have long cardboard rolls of different diameters and many are willing to give them to you for free.


Thanks for that advice. I'm using it!


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## Elizabeth Fowler

Mark Warner said:


> I am currently tasked with designing the set for Arkansas Bear, which along with other things calls for a large tree on the set. We are wanting to make it to be 3 demensional (2d trees just don't look right) and it should be rather larger. I'm thinking it will be about 16 feet tall, with a trunk diameter of about 4 feet. The tree is the main component of the set, so we have most of the build to spend just on it. The tree also has to ''open up '' to create a prison for one of the characters, ( I'm actually not super worried about this part, I have an idea to make 2 branches tie him up). I have thought about using a 1x4 skeleton with chicken wire and spray foam, but I don't exactly know where to start when it comes to the spray foam. Does anyone have any other suggestions to create this? Or does anyone have any suggestions on where I should buy the spray foam\ how to go about getting it to work.
> Thanks


I'd love to see your finished tree. Please post it!


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## morganmac

Longtime lurker, new poster. This thread has been a terrific resource for me as we work on an absurdly quick production of Into the Woods. We're doing a combination of several of these techniques so my students will get to try their hand at a little of everything. The builder paper bark is looking really great...lots of texture to do interesting things with lights. Will let you know how it turns out. Thanks for being such a wonderful source of information!


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