# Hanging Illusion



## Observer (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi, guys. I wanted to contact an authority on this issue. I have been searching the internet for techniques and so forth, and I even searched out a thread on this forum detailing other such scenes. Gaff came out and locked the thread, seemingly because its been brought up too many times, or that the safety issues surrounding this type of trick are too many.

Still, the way in which I intend to do this trick does not involve anyone seeing the "victim" as it were, hanged on stage. The trick involves a trap door to a chamber underneath the stage and the hangman's rope attached to the actor's parachute harness, worn under his costume. No one will actually see the actor hanged, just the rope tightening. I'm simply the writer of the play, and I won't be involved too much in the production. I just wrote the scene, and now I need to know if such a scene is at all possible to do on stage. Safety is of course my first concern.

In my writing, I am assisted by a simple, but correct, sketchup model of the stage. Two images are posted below. I'll describe the details here:

1. The stage itself is made by scaffolds, (stage elements) 1 meters wide, 2 meters deep, 75cm tall, all sewn to eachother at the legs with duct tape. Additional fastening can be applied.
2. The platform is 2*2 meters, 1.75 meter high and has a trapdoor.
3. The platform is fitted inside of the scaffolds, where two elements will have been removed.
4. The actor is wearing a parachute harness to which the hangman's rope will be attached, by a harness clip.
5. The noose itself is its own piece, and not attached to anything.
6. Mattresses are placed at the base of the chamber to break the actors fall.
7. The rope and mattress together catch the actor when he is out of sight of the audience. (he will land in a crouched position)
8. The opening of the trapdoor will be done by technicians behind the scenes, but the actual mechanism has not been determined.
9. The actor's hands will be free, and not bound as suggested to the audience.
10. None of the actors are professional, as this is a high school stage.
11. The theater is relatively high budget, with over a hundred thousand US$ at its disposal.






When the signal is given from the actor that he is ready, the technicians will open the trapdoor and allow him to fall into the chamber. 

So how does this sound to you guys? Is this feasible? Should any adjustments be made?

Thanks for any feedback.


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## Footer (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes, it can be done. 

No, you should not do it. 

If you need to ask, you need to hire someone who has experience in this type of thing. 

I am not really worried about the hanging part. If you just want the rope to be taught after he falls that can be accomplished without the roper ever being attached to the actor. 

Thats the easy part. 

The trap door is the hard part. In order to make this work safely there is much more engineering that needs to go into the unit besides just dropping the doors. I have seen this done. It was done using hydrlic cylinders that could move faster then the actor falled. After they opened, they did not swing back. This costs a good amount of money and some good engineering. 

My other concern is the actor. This stunt is hard to pull off by someone who is trained in stunts/stage combat. Its not going to be a easy thing or safe thing to do with a high school student. I also doubt you have anyone on your staff trained in fight choreography/stunts to pull this off.

If you are connecting platforms together with duct tape... I think this stunt is outside your realm of doable. 

It can be done. The people are out there that can show you how to do it. If you hire them, you can do it.


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## cdub260 (Jan 5, 2010)

It sounds to me like you need to find a stunt coordinator to figure this one out for you. Other CB members can be of far more help to you than I in finding such a person.


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## Van (Jan 5, 2010)

If you are simply authoring the play then I would leave it to the TD to figure out the trick. If you were to include a suggested setup of this trick with the published play then you indemnify yourself for all eternity, and that sucks. 
You theories all sound good. Footer pointed out the biggest flaw which is getting the trap out of the way fast enough and with enough insurance that it will not swing back and brain the actor. Once again I will echo my buddy Footer and say that if you have the budget that you referenced availible then contact a proffesional rigger and fight choreographer.


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## Observer (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks a lot, guys. This is invaluable. I probably would never have thunk about these issues. Thx!!!


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## fredthe (Jan 5, 2010)

Please, don't do this without professional help. A 2.5 meter drop is enough to injure/cripple/KILL the actor, even without a rope around their neck.

It may sound good and simple, but there are just too many things that can go wrong. Especially at the high school level, the only way to do this would be with professional assistance.

You also might consider other ways to "show" the hanging, without actually dropping an actor. I've seen a simple gobo of a noose, combined with sound effects, provide a very effective hanging.

-Fred


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## bull (Jan 5, 2010)

May I just ask... what sort of High School performance has a >100k budget. Just wondering. But definitely, as others have said, please please please seek professional assistance, not only will you need an engineer to design the trap doors, you are going to want a person trained in stage combat to teach the actor, not any old joe can do that. I have taken some stage combat classes myself, and it's no easy thing. Please seek professional assistance.


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## Footer (Jan 5, 2010)

bull said:


> May I just ask... what sort of High School performance has a >100k budget. Just wondering.



The one I used to teach at in the Atlanta area had a budget bigger then that... 

Its rare... but not unheard of.


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## Observer (Jan 5, 2010)

The backup plan as it were, is one such thing. A pre recorded silhouette from a projector to give the impression of the victim's shadow. Its good enough.

No, you've all made it clear that its not doable under any circumstances in this play on this stage. I came to research the issue properly, and you've all been very helpful. Plan B was written into the script about half an hour ago... 

Thanks again, all!


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## SHARYNF (Jan 5, 2010)

Keep in mind that this is theater and sometimes letting the audience imagination work can be very effective. You might be able to just have the actor stand there in the ready to be hanged position, then cut the lights, have the sound of the trapdoor opening and the body dropping, but simply have the actor move off the platform NOT drop thru a trapdoor at all. 

A shadow image of someone appearing to be hanging from the noose post drop can be very effective 

Our imaginations can be far more powerful than a reality based image. For all the reasons mentioned above this is a stunt that needs a professional, but if not done perfectly can become cheesy and loose the impact

To day we see movies with high production values and trained stunt men and blue screen etc, and we tend to want to duplicate this in theater but IMO we loose some of the theatrical effect when we attempt to duplicate reality. 
If you look at the current Sherlock Holmes movie there is a high production value hanging scene, and our minds tend to expect that level of perfection IF we are looking at a scene that is attempting to "show it all" 

Personally I think the implication and use the audience mind to create the image can be more effective 

Sharyn


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## PeytonJr (Jan 5, 2010)

Observer said:


> 1. The stage itself is made by scaffolds, (stage elements) 1 meters wide, 2 meters deep, 75cm tall, all sewn to eachother at the legs with duct tape.



Shouldn't there be something else besides duct tape keeping the platforms together, or is that just me?


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## Observer (Jan 7, 2010)

PeytonJr said:


> Shouldn't there be something else besides duct tape keeping the platforms together, or is that just me?



Haha, well, if NASA thinks Duct tape should be on every space shuttle they put in space in case of emergencies, I think it'll do on a high school. Its solid stuff, man! 

Thx for the input, Sharyn. Might not even need a huge platform at all. Just a makeshift stool. Its cheap.


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## bull (Jan 7, 2010)

NO DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!! that's like blasphemy. Gaff tape, please.


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## MarshallPope (Jan 7, 2010)

Observer said:


> Haha, well, if NASA thinks Duct tape should be on every space shuttle they put in space in case of emergencies, I think it'll do on a high school. Its solid stuff, man!



Well, I kind of doubt they would use it to reattach a wing. To hang a loose wire that fell down, sure.


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## Observer (Jan 7, 2010)

bull said:


> NO DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!! that's like blasphemy. Gaff tape, please.



Well, it was duct last time I looked. But its practical though. Its always the new kids who put them together, right? With Duct tape they get to see where they put the tape last year! No need for a manual 

Besides, I said $100k, not $1mill


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## bull (Jan 7, 2010)

Still $100K, we don't even come close to having that. I've never heard of a High School theatre budget of over 20K, and very few are that high that I know.


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## Observer (Jan 7, 2010)

bull said:


> Still $100K, we don't even come close to having that. I've never heard of a High School theatre budget of over 20K, and very few are that high that I know.



Hm... Well, that was doing the exchange rate I guess. US Dollar to a Norwegian Krone. Checking with the big mac index instead the budget gets to some $50k. The dollar is having a hard time these days... :S


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## shiben (Jan 7, 2010)

2 things: First: Duct Tape saved Apollo 13. They built an air hose out of the stuff. If not for Duct Tape, the crew would have died of CO2 poisoning. Thus why Duct Tape is sent up in every flight. For your uses, however, at least super heavy duty zip ties would be a better idea. Second, the most effective and dramatic hanging I have ever seen was on a recent play I worked on. The actor took off his belt, stood on a chair, the lights went to black except for a single sidelight as he threw the belt over the bar he was hanging himself on and made a loop, said some line, it went to black, a chair was dropped off stage, and when the lights came back up the chair was knocked over and the belt was hanging in a loop, but the actor was gone. Super dramatic, and totally safe, minus an 18" fall should he have slipped off the chair.


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## DuckJordan (Jan 8, 2010)

hey all those who are rippin on duct tape ill have you know mythbusters did a whole show upon duct tape and it can do alot of things gaffers can't, lifting a car using ductape and a crane is a feat, so all that aside i would use screws or zip ties for this as duct tape has a tendency to fail if not done properly 

(They should have a class in High school devoted to the stuff)


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## shiben (Jan 8, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> hey all those who are rippin on duct tape ill have you know mythbusters did a whole show upon duct tape and it can do alot of things gaffers can't, lifting a car using ductape and a crane is a feat, so all that aside i would use screws or zip ties for this as duct tape has a tendency to fail if not done properly
> 
> (They should have a class in High school devoted to the stuff)



They really didnt try gaffers tape, so im not really sure if it could or not. I have a feeling that gaffer's tape would work the same, as in terms of tear strength its pretty baller, and sticks to itself pretty well.


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## derekleffew (Jan 8, 2010)

On other lists and boards, Rescue Tape has been getting a lot of mention lately as an emergency repair item. Makes me want to get some and try it out.




> Rescue Tape is a self-fusing silicone repair product with infinite uses. First used by the US Military and now seen at consumer and industrial trade shows across America, this is the most versatile and easy-to-use emergency repair product available. You can repair leaks on plumbing and hoses in a flash, use to insulate electrical wiring or as shrink wrap, wrap tool handles, and much, much more.


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## ajb (Jan 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> On other lists and boards, Rescue Tape has been getting a lot of mention lately as an emergency repair item. Makes me want to get some and try it out.



Got a roll recently, and seems like nice stuff, though I haven't tried it on an active pneumatic or liquid leak yet. Too bad I didn't have it with me the other day when one of my carps dragged a vinyl air hose across a fresh weld!


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## ruinexplorer (Jan 10, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> On other lists and boards, Rescue Tape has been getting a lot of mention lately as an emergency repair item. Makes me want to get some and try it out.



Yes, this is very useful stuff, but too expensive for many applications. They used it to seal connectors on the set of Pirates of the Caribbean. We have some of it at work, but I haven't needed it yet (don't know about some other techs).


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## masterelectrician2112 (Jan 24, 2010)

bull said:


> May I just ask... what sort of High School performance has a >100k budget. Just wondering.


 

Footer said:


> The one I used to teach at in the Atlanta area had a budget bigger then that...Its rare... but not unheard of.


 

bull said:


> Still $100K, we don't even come close to having that. I've never heard of a High School theatre budget of over 20K, and very few are that high that I know.


 
Well, here in NC at my HS, the "budget" (we don't exactly make a budget) is generally *less than $1000*...and, if we actually even had that on a yearly basis, I would be ecstatic! But more than *100k*? That would be a dream!!


bull said:


> NO DUCT TAPE!!!!!!!!! that's like blasphemy. Gaff tape, please.


 
Like I said*. Less than $1000 budget!* Gaff tape is about like gold at my HS! It is used for VERY SPECIFIC USES ONLY! That is, when we even have it! Sometimes we don't even have it! Gaff is to professionals as duct tape is to HS technicians! It is our tape of choice for most applications. Most high schools don't have the money to use only gaff tape.


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## derekleffew (Apr 12, 2012)

Brazilian Actor Found Hanged While Playing Judas in Passion Theater Show


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## bdkdesigns (Apr 12, 2012)

Observer said:


> Besides, I said $100k, not $1mill



Yes, but compare that to my yearly operating budget given to us by the state of: $8k

This is at a state funded University and is meant to provide production and general supplies like office paper etc etc. The only way we function is to find external sources of funding, and even that is pitiful.


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## What Rigger? (Apr 13, 2012)

ruinexplorer said:


> Yes, this is very useful stuff, but too expensive for many applications. They used it to seal connectors on the set of Pirates of the Caribbean. We have some of it at work, but I haven't needed it yet (don't know about some other techs).



Ruin, how do you know this and I don't???? Have you been talking to Tom Dupont?


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 13, 2012)

Shoot, I know a couple of people who worked on that one. I can't remember which one told me. I was bummend to miss the bachelor party for Marty last year (friend of a friend). Dude, it's a small world after all!


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## What Rigger? (Apr 14, 2012)

ruinexplorer said:


> Dude, it's a small world after all!



I think you understand that statement very well.


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## olpmcg (May 22, 2012)

I recently ran sound on a production that used an interesting technique. They had a fabric noose and used bungee cable to keep the noose just at the actors height. The actor then dropped and landed on a mattress, swaying their body as if they were free floating. This was all done behind plastic with a back-light (and appropriate sound effects) to show the shadow of a person hanging. If the nose needs to be seen (and look like rope) you could have the bungee within the structure attached to the rope so that it lets the rope appear to be solid. However the rope simply slides down with the actor. This allows the actor to remain safe with NO chance of accidental neck snapping. You could even go the extra step and add a rip cord so that if the actors full wight is put on the rope, it breaks quickly. I'd reduce the drop height because actual rope will only "give" so much when a person is being hung. Even with dramatic emphasis, the person need only drop a most a foot.


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## DuckJordan (May 22, 2012)

No this still has a chance of failing. Only use a break away with a hanging illusion anything else should get you tossed in jail.


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## JimHaver (Jul 4, 2012)

High school theater with a budget?
That must be nice. 
My daughter's HS theater dept is self-funded; ticket & concession sales. 
Plus whatever donations from parents. 
The couple hundred hours a year I spend there probably doesn't hurt, either. 
They do 3 shows every year.


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