# Stage floor repair



## lieperjp (Apr 21, 2008)

Alright, I did some searching around and I can't find ant tips. 
our stage deck is a hardwood floor that has taken quite a beating. I want to get some funding to re-finish it. Does anyone know of any quick and easy methods of sanding a large area? Also, any good sealants? Yes, it is a hardwood floor (the stage was installed in 1920 and was refurbished in 1970.) Right now I'm thinking just go to home depot or menards and pick up some good hard wood sealant and give it three or four coats. They (the administration) will not let the floor be painted. The only problem is the floor has several very deep gashes... and they do set construction on the stage since we don't have a scene shop, not to mention that a wind ensemble practices on stage four days a week. It needs to be done, the floor is chipping and it is only getting worse. We can't put gaffers tape on it anymore because it pulls up some floor with it when we remove it. Sugesstions?


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## Footer (Apr 21, 2008)

Don't go refinish in yourself. It can be done, but is not an easy thing to do. The space will have to be shut down for a good period of time, sanded, and then re-sealed. Throwing more sealer on top is not going to fix it. Get the guys in there that take care of your gym floor, usually its about the same process. I know way to many people who have spent days trying to strip and re-seal stages only to paint it black because it was not taking the stain correctly.


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## RiffRaff54 (Apr 22, 2008)

Get someone else to do it. Speaking from experience, it's long, hard work. I would HIGHLY recommend going with DawnChem's StreetShoe as you're topcoat. We've used it at my theatre for years and we have a high school set crew that builds on it (even though we have a scene shop, go figure) and a band, an orchestra, or a choir that rehearses every school day on stage and it holds up. If you call Dawn they'll send you a list of what all they recommend doing and with what products, or I can send them to you if you give me your email.

For the love of god don't use what the gym uses, they usually use a high gloss finish and if you do that you're lighting people will hang you from you're FOH positions.

Also once you've picked your finish, sealer, etc. make sure you shop around online for good prices, I'd suggest floormechanics.com, but that's just me.

Hope this helps


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## Spikesgirl (Apr 22, 2008)

Another vote for finding professional to do this. you might think it would be more expensive, but in the long run, it will save you money, grief and lots of time. Plus you don't have to worry if something goes wrong - just make sure their contract ensures that the job is 100% guaranteed.

We tried it once in our black box and ended up having to rip the floor out and replace the entire deck. We were out of service for nearly the entire summer and paid nearly double what it would have cost to have brought pros in.

Char5lie


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## derekleffew (Apr 22, 2008)

You may also need to face the fact that even if it's a 38 year old floor, it may be at the end of it's useful life. If in fact it's hardwood, even oak or maple, if it's been mistreated, (stage floors take much more abuse than home floors) it may need replacement. Often theatres were built with hardwood for the first 10' and then pine the rest of the way upstage, specifically so the pine could be replaced at lesser cost. Another legend I've heard is the reason for the hardward downstage is for the star tapdance number. At a roadhouse I once worked, we eventually gave up and laid black battleship linoleum over the entire stage. Over time, humidity issues, particularly dryness in winter, can destroy a floor.

I agree with all of the above. Your only course of action is to have it professionally sanded and refinished. Painting it would not be a good option, and could make it worse.


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## Techiegirly (Apr 22, 2008)

> They (the administration) will not let the floor be painted.



I hate it when the powers that be have NO CLUE what _REALLY_ needs to be done for the safetey and/or well being of the theatre yet they have all the power and money making decisions and control. It gets in the way SO OFTEN.


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## RiffRaff54 (Apr 22, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Often theatres were built with hardwood for the first 10' and then pine the rest of the way upstage, specifically so the pine could be replaced at lesser cost. Another legend I've heard is the reason for the hardward downstage is for the star tapdance number.



I was told this was done so if audience members approached the stage they would see the maple/oak not the pine, thus making the stage appear nicer and more lavish.


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## Van (Apr 22, 2008)

RiffRaff54 said:


> I was told this was done so if audience members approached the stage they would see the maple/oak not the pine, thus making the stage appear nicer and more lavish.


 
Actually I'd go with a homogenized version of the two. 
Since most of your older auditoriums are multi use the idea was that when you installed a set you needed to be able to screw into, or set stage screws into the floor. Since this usually happened upstage of the set and most sets didn't start till quite a ways past the first ten feet then the first ten or so were of a hardwood for appearances and the upstage area was made from pine which is/ was cheaper and easier to repair / replace. Since it's a multi -use facility you close the Olio or main rag and you have a pretty stage picture / floor for graduates to walk up on to receive their diplomas. 
So many schools forget that this was why the deck was built in such a manner, then you get silly rules like " No Screwing into the stage floor ever!" which is really stupid if your trying to do good stuff. I'm sure plenty of administrators would have a cow if you showed them how to set a real stage screw. 
As to the original question I can only echo what others have already posted. Get a pro to do the repairs. They can tell you if you need to replace the whole floor of if there is one more re-finish left in it. Most good flooring guys can also pull up and replace individual boards without disturbing the boards around them. < it's a neat trick and saves tons on not having to pull a whole floor just to replace a few boards.> As for finishes I'd again listen to the Pros. but also keep in mind that originally a lot of stage floors were not " Finished" Sanded, yes, Stained, Yes, perhaps a coat of sanding sealer. But the pine parts were purely utilitarian.


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## bobgaggle (Apr 22, 2008)

Techiegirly said:


> I hate it when the powers that be have NO CLUE what _REALLY_ needs to be done for the safetey and/or well being of the theatre yet they have all the power and money making decisions and control. It gets in the way SO OFTEN.




I'm in a high school. We have the admin who says, "all of your props and set pieces can't be in the wings or backstage because the band needs to get their stuff in there."

Help me out here people. we can't put our sets and props backstage. okay, we'll put them onstage. but wait! if the band needs to get through the wings and backstage spaces, it must be because they need to get on stage to play. which means we can't put our stuff there. the assistant principal suggested we (the drama department) buy one of storage Pods to put all our stuff in. which would mean carting all of it through the hallways to the back of the school, scraping up the floor as we go, because the custodians won't lend us carts to haul it, and then they'll yell at us from scraping the tile. sigh.... not that 15 8x4 flats would fit in one of them to begin with...along with the stock staircases, spare 2x4, multi-use black cubes, costumes, and the hoardes of stuff we've got crammed into every nook and cranny.


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## RiffRaff54 (Apr 22, 2008)

If you have a lobby tell the music department to practice in the lobby. That's why my place does when the play/musical are up.

Or tell them to build a music room


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## lieperjp (Apr 23, 2008)

RiffRaff54 said:


> If you have a lobby tell the music department to practice in the lobby. That's why my place does when the play/musical are up.
> Or tell them to build a music room



They have a band room. Apparently, it's too small...


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## lieperjp (Apr 23, 2008)

bobgaggle said:


> I'm in a high school. We have the admin who says, "all of your props and set pieces can't be in the wings or backstage because the band needs to get their stuff in there."
> Help me out here people. we can't put our sets and props backstage. okay, we'll put them onstage. but wait! if the band needs to get through the wings and backstage spaces, it must be because they need to get on stage to play. which means we can't put our stuff there. the assistant principal suggested we (the drama department) buy one of storage Pods to put all our stuff in. which would mean carting all of it through the hallways to the back of the school, scraping up the floor as we go, because the custodians won't lend us carts to haul it, and then they'll yell at us from scraping the tile. sigh.... not that 15 8x4 flats would fit in one of them to begin with...along with the stock staircases, spare 2x4, multi-use black cubes, costumes, and the hoardes of stuff we've got crammed into every nook and cranny.



wow. you're high school sounds like my high school... except you at least have an auditorium. We had to build a stage and rent *everything!!!* Not to mention that we took up the gym, so we had to schedule around sports events, so we only were able to be set up for two weeks... Not to mention custom building stadium seating for every event without scratching up the new gym floor...


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## derekleffew (Apr 23, 2008)

Van said:


> ...I'm sure plenty of administrators would have a cow if you showed them how to set a *real* stage screw....


Which *real* stage screw?

Standard,




Economy,


or Improved?



Since I couldn't find a picture of a Standard Stage Screw anywhere on-line, I took a picture of my own. I also scanned in page 87 of _Stage Scenery, Its Construction and Rigging_, by my hero, A. S. Gillette, 1972, complete with my hand-drawn notes from 1980.


And found that I'd forgotten the difference between "New York Peg" and "Comfort Pattern." Honestly, I've never in my life used any other than the Improved Stage Screw version. I venture to say 90% of the stagehands in Las Vegas have never seen any of the above.


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## RiffRaff54 (Apr 23, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> They have a band room. Apparently, it's too small...



What you do then is split the band. The high school I work for and went to their colors are grey and red. So, we have Grey Band and Scarlet Band. We also have Wind Ensembal. More work for the teachers but they get use to it. One is a Class A and one's class B, or AA and A, whatever.

And make sure both don't get schedualed during the same period.


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## Van (Apr 23, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Which *real* stage screw?...........


 
Oh the Standard, Definitely! They do so much damage to a stage it's unbelievable.


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## sloop (Apr 24, 2008)

Van said:


> Oh the Standard, Definitely! They do so much damage to a stage it's unbelievable.


Yes, but some elmers glue and a piece of dowel rod pounded into the hole fixes it.


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## Van (Apr 24, 2008)

sloop said:


> Yes, but some elmers glue and a piece of dowel rod pounded into the hole fixes it.


 
Oh that's the thing to do for a hole from an " Improved Stage Screw & Insert", but sort of like the Spainish Inquisition, "No One repairs a hole from a Standard Stage Screw"


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## derekleffew (Apr 24, 2008)

Anyone know the history of the Improved Stage Screw and Insert? It's not in my 1972 book, but we did learn about them in 1980. I can't imagine all the damage done to stages before then, or anyone ever allowing the Standard Stage Screw. It does remind one of the Spanish Inquisition, though.


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## Lemonjello (Apr 24, 2008)

To the OP: Depending if your floor was top nailed or toenailed and the remaining thickness of the floor you can usually refinish or have it refinished. Call a refinisher for a quote, can't hurt and it gives you a reference to go by as far as cost to rent floor sander vacuum etc, buy paper, finish and tools to do the job and your time. You might find it to fairly close. 
The floor needs to be sanded/ prepped carefully and thoroughly or your finish will not adhere properly. Recoating or touching up is a bad idea especially if you are not 100% sure exactly what type of finish is already on the floor. May not bond and will peal, chip or orange peel finish below. Loosing all your hero points....
If your floor is in physically good shape other than cosmetic, don't replace anything. A good refinisher can do some patches on really bad spots if necessary.
Good luck!


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## lieperjp (Apr 24, 2008)

Well, it seems that the money went somewhere else - I noticed they decided to spend an extra $16,000 to upgrade the baseball field when they've already spent $300,000 this year to completely tear up and re-do the soccer fields and football fields... And they haven't spent any money on major renovations in the auditorium since 1970. I seriously doubt much of the electrical system for the lights is up to code anymore, let alone the cosmetic defects of the scratched up floor and faded and dusty curtains. I was just looking for a project that could be done by students to show that the students cared for the auditorium, and maybe that would show the administration that it's time to spend some money.


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## derekleffew (Apr 24, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> ... faded and dusty curtains...


Most likely your fire retardancy on these has expired. Perhaps a good and safety-related project would be to take them down and send them out for cleaning and re-fireproofing. Are they actually faded? Fabric generally does not fade unless subjected to UV (sunlight). See this site for on-site work, or here for off-site. You may have a local company in your area able to undertake the task as well. Be sure to perform any rigging task ONLY under qualified supervision. If you have a counterweight fly system, removing and re-installing a Main or full-stage Traveler is one of the most dangerous activities, due to the inevitable weight imbalances.


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## lieperjp (Apr 24, 2008)

The black valances are faded near the work lights... but it's only noticable when standing on stage or in the front two rows of the house. We tried getting new curtains last year to replace the old ones, but administration didn't want to spend the money. Maybe I can find out more about the fire-retardant expiration. They're pretty scared of fires after one of our dorms started on fire fifteen years ago.


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## Van (Apr 24, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> The black valances are faded near the work lights... but it's only noticable when standing on stage or in the front two rows of the house. We tried getting new curtains last year to replace the old ones, but administration didn't want to spend the money. Maybe I can find out more about the fire-retardant expiration. They're pretty scared of fires after one of our dorms started on fire fifteen years ago.


Chances are that if your drapes are old enough to have faded then they have probably out lived their fire retardancy. I don't know of local suppliers in your area, maybe someone else here does, but it would be great if you could get someone in to inspect your soft goods and make recommendations to your administration about replacement / maintenance costs. You'd think that insurance companies would do a better job of watch-dogging situations like this but they don't.


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## lieperjp (Apr 24, 2008)

We got them from Norcostco in the Twin Cities - Probably where we'd get them again.


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## tech2000 (Jul 7, 2008)

When we have plays/musicals, usdually we will just coordinate with our orchestra director (he is onstage) and if the set is too much in the way, classes will change rooms enough so that all the music classes (band, orch., and choir) are in classrooms/music rooms, and the theater manager's (also an english and theater teacher) classes are in the theater. Works nicely. Also, we make all of our sets on castors so they will move out of the way as much as possible.

The district "replaced" our stage last winter because it really badly needed it, but all they did was flip the wood panels in the floor upside down. The panels are not supposed to be flipped upside down, they were manufactured so that one side looks nice and the other like crap. Worst of all, they then proceeded to paint it high gloss black. Then realizing it wouldn't work after painting the entire stage, they painted right over it with a flat black. Now since last winter the flat black paint is wearing away. What should we do?


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## Van (Jul 7, 2008)

tech2000 said:


> When we have plays/musicals, usdually we will just coordinate with our orchestra director (he is onstage) and if the set is too much in the way, classes will change rooms enough so that all the music classes (band, orch., and choir) are in classrooms/music rooms, and the theater manager's (also an english and theater teacher) classes are in the theater. Works nicely. Also, we make all of our sets on castors so they will move out of the way as much as possible.
> 
> The district "replaced" our stage last winter because it really badly needed it, but all they did was flip the wood panels in the floor upside down. The panels are not supposed to be flipped upside down, they were manufactured so that one side looks nice and the other like crap. Worst of all, they then proceeded to paint it high gloss black. Then realizing it wouldn't work after painting the entire stage, they painted right over it with a flat black. Now since last winter the flat black paint is wearing away. What should we do?


 
Not knowing exactly what kind of panels they are... my first suggestion would be rent a random orbit floor sander from your local Home depot and sand the flat black off. Go back with a lighter grit and "rough up" the gloss then re-paint < and thin no more> << sorry bad joke>> the floor with a decent quality flat black floor paint or you could just lay Masonite all over the floor and paint it black then you don't have to worry about the sanding.


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## Sayen (Jul 18, 2008)

How visible is the stage floor during a show, under stage lights? My stage isn't in the best of shape, but you can't tell at all from the audience, since the chair angle is so poor. I paint the floor maybe once a year or so, and even then we only repaint the visible area. If you don't want to sand it, you might consider just another repaint.


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## LindaWBell (Sep 4, 2011)

I am new to this site but have read up on all of this flooring stuff here!! I still have a question though.

I am a dance teacher and I have a dance studio with a raised plywood floor. Through reading up here, I have layered the floor with tempered hardboard, I have added 2 coats of low-lustre black paint from Home Depot. It is Behr latex black Porch and Floor paint, they called their home office to find out what was recommended. 

Now....several of you keep mentioning a sealer/water-based clear coat but some of you just mentioned the 2 coats of black. We will be dancing on it 6 days a week, some of it tapping!! I don't want it to all chip off the first time we dance on it!

1. Is that clear coat absolutely necessary? And if so, what exactly is it? No one mentions an exact name? Thompson's water seal, water-based polyurethane?? What??

2. Would it just be better to add a 3rd coat of the black?

3. If I put the clear coat on, will it hinder adding additional coats of black as needed?

It is done with the 2 coats of black but I am afraid to use it  Classes start in a week but we have a ballet placement this week!! An answer ASAP would be awesome!!!

Thanks!!!
Linda
The Dance Studio CNY


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## mstaylor (Sep 4, 2011)

I probably wouldn't worry about a clear coat. What you didn't mention was whether you primed it before the two coats of black. If it chips just repaint it, probably an once a year procedure.


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## venuetech (Sep 4, 2011)

lieperjp said:


> They have a band room. Apparently, it's too small...


 
so the stage is just the dumping ground for unused band equipment? (read that as "storage room for unused band equipment")

I would just stack all that back into the band room.. but then i do have a key to the band room


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## LindaWBell (Sep 4, 2011)

mstaylor said:


> I probably wouldn't worry about a clear coat. What you didn't mention was whether you primed it before the two coats of black. If it chips just repaint it, probably an once a year procedure.



I did not prime it first, I did seal the underside with random paint, then the 2 coats of black on top. I didn't see where anyone had primed it first. It sure seems like everyone has a similar but different system  OK, I guess I will skip the clear coat. I was just worried if I seal the black that it would be more difficult to get future layers of black to stick.

Thanks for you help!!


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## shiben (Sep 4, 2011)

LindaWBell said:


> I did not prime it first, I did seal the underside with random paint, then the 2 coats of black on top. I didn't see where anyone had primed it first. It sure seems like everyone has a similar but different system  OK, I guess I will skip the clear coat. I was just worried if I seal the black that it would be more difficult to get future layers of black to stick.
> 
> Thanks for you help!!



At my old school we would paint the floor black again after every production. It wont be pretty after people start walking on it, but there is something about walking into a theater with everything struck, a fresh coat of black on the floor, and just standing. You will probably be fine for the first year, just put on a new coat of paint at the start/end of summer, possibly also at winter break. Thats how most places I have seen work things.


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## mstaylor (Sep 4, 2011)

If you get the same places flaking then sand and prime those areas before you recoat it, if not then paint over it when needed. You are correct about the clear coat causing future coats to not stick well. If you have any questions about products, go to a real paint store. The big boxes are good for cheap but most of the employees could selling shoes as well as paint. My Dad was a professional painter so he taught to me to paint like a painter instead of like a carpenter.


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## bobthebuilder (Jul 18, 2013)

*Stage floor refinishing*

My stage floor is badly in need of sanding, filling and painting. It's constructed of tongue and groove plywood, over 2 x 4 sleepers laid on concrete . Thoughts on how to sand, level rough spots, and paint?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 22, 2013)

sloop said:


> Yes, but some elmers glue and a piece of dowel rod pounded into the hole fixes it.



Use a plug cut from same or similar material, not a dowel, to plug holes. The end grain of a dowel will always show up and swell and shrink differently than a plug.


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## DuckJordan (Jul 22, 2013)

Unless you refinish the floor right after, we just did this at our venue. Dowels to fill holes danced away the old sealer. And put two new layers on.


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