# Dropped Shackles



## Jojomonkeyking (Jul 24, 2011)

I've heard this statement from a couple of people, some I trust and others I don't, so I figured I'd ask here.

Are rated forged shackles derated after being dropped?

Thank you!


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## derekleffew (Jul 24, 2011)

Jojomonkeyking said:


> ... Are rated forged shackles derated after being dropped? ...


 From how high and onto what surface?

Just heard of an incident yesterday where a rigger 20' high in a scissor lift dropped a shackle. It bounced out of the lift and injured a crewmember below, requiring stitches.

DON'T DROP THE SHACKLES (or anything else, for that matter)!


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## avkid (Jul 24, 2011)

This doesn't make sense with forged shackles.
If they meant cast it very well might be true, as they will deform easier than forged.


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## Jojomonkeyking (Jul 24, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> From how high and onto what surface?
> 
> Just heard of an incident yesterday where a rigger 20' high in a scissor lift dropped a shackle. It bounced out of the lift and injured a crewmember below, requiring stitches.
> 
> DON'T DROP THE SHACKLES (or anything else, for that matter)!


 
Umm really any height, I'd understand from a full grid 60'+ it might be a problem, but what about 5'ish and onto a stage floor?

We dropped a pin from a shackle this summer from 70' but luckily it missed everyone below. Even with hardhats I'd imagine it could cause quite the headache


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## Van (Jul 24, 2011)

Thi sis one I'm going to leave to WhatRigger buuuuuuuut. My two cents is, Some folks are morons, you drop a shackle into a box, they start screaming about micro-fractures. At the same time You certainly don't want to drop a shackle, carabiner, etc, onto concrete for any distance over a few feet.


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## porkchop (Jul 24, 2011)

Our company policy I believe is any rigging materials that hit from 10' or more must be taken out of service. This may not always happen, but I believe that is the policy.


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## FatherMurphy (Jul 24, 2011)

When I took the Jay Glerum/Harry Donovan rigging seminar some years back, Jay related asking one of the manufacturers of forged shackles about dropping them on concrete from waist high - the response was that they got dropped further than that onto equally hard surfaces during manufacture.

A rigger of similar stature was quoted as saying that hardware was cheap, compared to risk. $5 or $10 for tossing a shackle in the trash was nothing compared to what might happen if it was indeed damaged.

'Derating' is a trigger word in the original question, though - how would one go about marking a dropped shackle so that the mark stayed, and kept the shackle separate? How far would you derate it? How would you guarantee that it wasn't mixed in with higher rated shackles? What would you say if a judge asked why, if you knew it wasn't full strength, you kept using it?

Realistically, shackles get dumped and dropped a few feet onto concrete repeatedly during their service life, and never seem to be the obvious culprit when crashes do occur (short of a pin unscrewing, which is different than loss of capacity from damage). They're usually sufficiently higher in original strength than the other components around them that something else will fail first. 

The 10' rule mentioned above seems like a decent guideline, perhaps conservative itself. If in doubt, err on the side of safety.


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## LavaASU (Jul 24, 2011)

FatherMurphy said:


> A rigger of similar stature was quoted as saying that hardware was cheap, compared to risk. $5 or $10 for tossing a shackle in the trash was nothing compared to what might happen if it was indeed damaged.
> 
> The 10' rule mentioned above seems like a decent guideline, perhaps conservative itself. If in doubt, err on the side of safety.



A rigger friend considers anything more than a few feet as a reason to give someone/someone's kids a new key-ring/ backpack carabiner. Shrug.


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## ejsandstrom (Jul 24, 2011)

I had never heard this before. My only experience with screw clevis' (same a shackles AFAIK) is they get beaten like rented mules. Watch what they use for off road events. Imagine the force of pulling a full sized Chevy with 44's buried up to the base boards getting jerked out by an equally large vehicle. Many, many times more stress than hanging or lifting scenery. THose shckles are beaten over and over and over, I have never seen one break ever. I have seen a tow point rip a frame a part and the shackle is just fine. 

I have also seen riggers drop them into a gang box and pile chains and other things on top of them.


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## FatherMurphy (Jul 24, 2011)

LavaASU said:


> A rigger friend considers anything more than a few feet as a reason to give someone/someone's kids a new key-ring/ backpack carabiner. Shrug.


 
The OP was asking about drop-forged steel shackles, not aluminum rock-climbing carabiners. I don't think a 5/8" anchor shackle would work very well as a keyring...


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## avkid (Jul 25, 2011)

Hey now, my key ring is rated!
150# WLL


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## TheGuruat12 (Jul 25, 2011)

As is my belt  (Safety cable that happens to fit perfectly)


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## Blacksheep0317 (Aug 5, 2011)

Anything metal that has a life safety potential it is usually a good rule of thumb to retire it after a drop higher than 10'. With my rescue rigging, theatre rigging, and general rope and steel work that is pretty much the standard. HOWEVER..nothing should ever drop that far. Ever. Anything more than stray confetti being dropped is unexcusable. Sorry, but if shackles are coming down enough to ask this it may be time to derate some riggers to.


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