# Victoria's Secret Fashion Show



## len (Dec 3, 2010)

If you watched the Victoria's Secret fashion show, what was your opinion of the backstage "cues" they were broadcasting


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## headcrab (Dec 3, 2010)

You had time to watch that? I was here on CB.


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## ruinexplorer (Dec 4, 2010)

Didn't even know it was on. Still probably wouldn't have watched it. But, for my edification, what are the "cues" that you are talking about? Were they attempting to make it appear that they were broadcasting behind the scenes as well?


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## shiben (Dec 5, 2010)

headcrab said:


> You had time to watch that? I was here on CB.


 
One thing on TV that I actually watch.


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## soundman (Dec 5, 2010)

ruinexplorer said:


> Didn't even know it was on. Still probably wouldn't have watched it. But, for my edification, what are the "cues" that you are talking about? Were they attempting to make it appear that they were broadcasting behind the scenes as well?


 
As they were coming back or going to commercial they would put the com feed into the audio. So you would hear the SM call a few cues and announce the girls that needed to be up next.


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## ScottT (Dec 5, 2010)

I thought it was completely pointless... They probably just put it in as filler because before the commercials the song or performance had finished


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## gafftaper (Dec 6, 2010)

Here's a link. 

I watched for a few minutes... purely for educational purposes of course. I'm convinced that those calls were completely fake. Randomly you would hear stuff like, "34 models in the house", "the most beautiful women in the world are all here", calling out which model is up next and what they are wearing, at about 2:30 there is "standing bye fly cue 40..." but I don't see anything fly. FAKE! No real self respecting SM working at that sort of level would provide us that kind of constant inane commentary about how the girls look coming and going from the stage. I found it so annoying I couldn't watch it any more. 
 

Yes, you know you have worked on too many shows when annoying fake SM calls make you turn off a lingerie fashion show.


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## len (Dec 6, 2010)

Thanks for finding the link. The only ones I could find were Kate Perry performances, and stuff with no audio. When I heard they were doing that I couldn't believe how phony they were.

BTW, I think the CW will be broadcasting it again this week. Not sure the date.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 6, 2010)

okay, to me it was a design element, they were going for the whole, backstage, dark corner, underground look for their show. To me everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle similar to the whole "never show your stage lights" idea. The whole setup was made to look like the theater design, probably going off of the popularity of glee and the new movie Burlesque.

Its a style that they wanted the viewers at home to experience not just the famous celebrities and fashion designers in the studio.


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## BrianWolfe (Dec 6, 2010)

We actually did some work for that show. We made a pair of wings and the giant fake barbells. The "cues" were all style and totally fake. I found the whole thing pretty annoying. Not sure how that show gets anyone to buy their stuff. But advertising in general has always baffled me. The models are nice to look at.


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## shiben (Dec 6, 2010)

BrianWolfe said:


> Not sure how that show gets anyone to buy their stuff. But advertising in general has always baffled me. The models are nice to look at.


 
I think the whole purpose is to get men interested in the brand. I would assume that around this time of year, the majority of VS revenue comes from men, so having the show just gets the name out there more, any guy without any good gift ideas can just run in? Not really sure, but its a possibility.


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## shiben (Dec 6, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> Here's a link.
> 
> I watched for a few minutes... purely for educational purposes of course. I'm convinced that those calls were completely fake. Randomly you would hear stuff like, "34 models in the house", "the most beautiful women in the world are all here", calling out which model is up next and what they are wearing, at about 2:30 there is "standing bye fly cue 40..." but I don't see anything fly. FAKE! No real self respecting SM working at that sort of level would provide us that kind of constant inane commentary about how the girls look coming and going from the stage. I found it so annoying I couldn't watch it any more.
> 
> ...


 
I thought it just sounded silly by the end, it was ok when it was right at the begining and sounded like part of the song, where it was "and main curtain open" as it happened. After that, it was surpfulous, and boring.


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## gafftaper (Dec 6, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> okay, to me it was a design element, they were going for the whole, backstage, dark corner, underground look for their show. To me everyone is looking at this from the wrong angle similar to the whole "never show your stage lights" idea. The whole setup was made to look like the theater design, probably going off of the popularity of glee and the new movie Burlesque.
> Its a style that they wanted the viewers at home to experience not just the famous celebrities and fashion designers in the studio.


 
I agree that was the purpose. But it was really irritating when you know what an SM really does. Now everyone is going to think that giving fashion advice is what a SM does during a show. If I was the real SM who worked that show I would be more than a little upset of how my work is being characterized.


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## soundman (Dec 6, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> But it was really irritating when you know what an SM really does. Now everyone is going to think that giving fashion advice is what a SM does during a show. If I was the real SM who worked that show I would be more than a little upset of how my work is being characterized.



I would take a different approach and laugh all the way to the bank. Because of the fashion component of the show it would not surprise me if they had an 'ego boosting feed' which is what most of the chatter was about. As I recall there were a few times where the 'cues' and ego boosting overlapped so it makes me think they either created the whole thing or pulled it from a few channels.

In "All That Jazz" there is a scene where they are setting levels and the op doesn't seem to quite get it. That operator is Jules Fisher playing himself. Sometimes you need to be able to laugh at yourself.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 6, 2010)

are you trying to say you have never heard headset chatter during a show before? I don't think i can remember doing a show that didn't have chatter that would be judging what people were wearing. most of the time it wasn't even supposed to look good


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## soundman (Dec 6, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> are you trying to say you have never heard headset chatter during a show before? I don't think i can remember doing a show that didn't have chatter that would be judging what people were wearing. most of the time it wasn't even supposed to look good


 
Most of the chatter was directed towards the girls if I recall correctly. IE Looking great ladies, love the energy.


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## blackisthenewblack (Dec 6, 2010)

Just from seeing the opening clip, it sounds like a combination of two channels, the actual show channel and the "model/designer" channel. I thought that some of the chatter was decent, although half of it sounded super edited. I have listened into many coms, and they sound nothing like that, it sounds like video games with "radio" chatter.

What I would like to point out though, is that there is an interest in the industry that puts on these events (not VS, but the technicians). People want to know how all of this technicolor magic is being done, because we stand on an interesting edge, of seeing everything, but in a produced manor. Especially "fly cue 40" which I think might be the fresnels. One interesting thing was the bare look of the lights, rather than trying to fashionize them with sequins on some molded casing or something.


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## Anonymous067 (Dec 6, 2010)

Personally, I think this is downright annoying, and a little bit insulting.

Not to mention, most people at home don't _care_ what the SM is doing (sadly). They don't have any appreciation for the technicians whether they can hear them or not.

Just my 2cents.


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## MarshallPope (Dec 6, 2010)

I keep trying to reply to this, but am always distracted.

Anyway,

I'm torn on this one. On one hand, I think it was kind of cool that they did it, and can definitely see where they were going artistically with it. They wanted it to seem more "backstage-y" and probably to fill up aural empty spaces in the broadcast. Personally, the show would be pretty boring if I wasn't looking at the technical elements or listening to some drivel between the introductions of various outfits.

On the other hand, the way they characterized the chatter was quite annoying after the first five minutes. Sure, you will have reactions to what is going on onstage and might occasionally overhear a "good job" from the SM or someone, but it got very irritating very quickly.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 7, 2010)

MarshallPope said:


> I keep trying to reply to this, but am always distracted.
> 
> Anyway,
> 
> ...



I think they wanted to put some emphasis on the tech but making sure that the real "Show" was the girls, hence the so many good job, looking great things like that when talking about the girls.


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## shiben (Dec 7, 2010)

So I just watched this again on youtube. For research, of course! ;-) The "SM Cues" in the middle sounded more like a breathless admirer than a professional trying to run a show, so I thought it was just plain funny. Second, Seriously Katy Perry? Was your hair/headband about to fall off all the time? You could move your head some. At all would be good. Also, for her dresser/the tech who was helping. Why could I see her WIEM? The backup dancers were the only thing that really made me want to watch them. They play music on a CD and have people walking up and down the runway sexily. Her performance could have been a bit more interesting. Akon was much more interesting. The calls were getting more and more odd. "Stand by so and so" as they started moving on stage was good. My personal favorite calls are "last girl walking" and "akon is on the move", makes it sound like a stoning or something. Also one of the people on the coms sounded like the seamstress in Ugly Betty. Just saying. I still stand by my original vote, however. I had to watch it twice to hear the audio.


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## gafftaper (Dec 7, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> are you trying to say you have never heard headset chatter during a show before? I don't think i can remember doing a show that didn't have chatter that would be judging what people were wearing. most of the time it wasn't even supposed to look good



No I'm saying that pros at that level don't act like they are in High School. Yes that's the way it is in a High school, college, and even some semi professional theater. It's very common when you don't have much on the line, you have lots of people who are just learning their jobs, or just do this as a side hobby. In the pro world it does occur sometimes when you have been doing the same show OVER and OVER and there is a lot of down time between cues (Also note the chat at this level is more likely to be about where they are going drinking after the show, and not sniping about the actors). But when you are dealing with a major event with *lots* of money on the line, top pro's doing the gig, with only one shot to get it right, you don't hear that kind of chat on the coms. 

Gaff's rule:
More expensive show= more cues to call= more at stake if you screw up= professional com talk

I've now been backstage during a performance of Cirque Ka twice. When you have people's lives and hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line every performance, you just can't afford to make a mistake. What happens if the Light op gets distracted and hits go too soon or too late? What happens if a rigger gets distracted or casual about his work because of com chat? Beautiful artistic images can be destroyed or worse yet people can die! Ka has a LOT of different com lines to work with. Departments all check in with the SM at the start of the show and then sort of go about their business. The SM begins calling out an UNBELIEVABLE number of cues for rigging and automation. Lighting, sound, and video all work on their own taking their own cues. They don't even call cues for lights and video, they just take them. The head light board op has been with the show from the start and she knows everything about it. After 10 shows a week for about 8 years, she doesn't need anyone telling her when to go. In fact, once you learn your job, no one needs to be told what to do. (With the exception of rigging and other elements that require precision timing). The Cirque attitude seems to be something along the lines of: You are a professional. You were hired because you were the best at your job available. Everyone from the lowest ensemble member to the head rigger is part of an intricate machine that must all work together flawlessly to do the best show possible. Do your job and do it well and we all look good. That's a pretty cool attitude and a great place to work. But there's no place for High School com chatter in that world. 

With Millions of dollars spent on this Fashion Show, Gaff's rule kicks in as well. If the SM screws up he/she will be disgraced on a massive national stage and have a very hard time finding work at that level again. Nobody was making the kind of comments you hear in high school on the com system. 

As a counterpoint, I'm sure there are plenty around here who could tell lot's of funny stories about working crew for a major national tour that the crew is really lax and chatty. But it's a different environment than the Victoria's Secret show. The stakes are REALLY high when you have that much money invested in a national tv event that only happens once.

EDIT: As long as I'm at it I want to also point out the difference between com chatter and com chatter that is negative about someone in the cast or crew... which in retrospect I think is more the point Duck was making. While com chat happens at all levels of theater, talking about talent doesn't. You may hate an actor, but if you want to keep working you better keep it zipped on the coms. I always make it a point when I'm breaking in a new crew to occasionally pick up a com line in another room when the crew doesn't think I'm around, eventually someone will go back to their high school ways of gossiping about someone in the cast they hate, I think jump into the conversation out of nowhere saying, "you know if I was that actor and I just heard what you said, we could have a big problem right now". It seems to work wonders. There have been LOTS of careers ended because someone is backstabbing on the com line and has no idea who is listening backstage. I certainly won't keep people on crew who are always talking crap about other people in the show. If you want to work a long time in this tech world, always assume that EVERYTHING you say on a com CAN be heard by EVERYONE in the theater. If you wouldn't yell it out the booth window, don't say it on a com line.


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## Les (Dec 9, 2010)

I remember running lights for Peter Pan back in high school and hearing about how the girls (Drill Team dancers, not regular thespians) would huddle around the Clearcom speaker station in their dressing room because it was like "an interesting radio show". Good thing we kept it clean since we didn't discover this 'till after the first week of performances. 

Apparently the most interesting line came from Aaron, our Tinkerbell Laser Operator. I guess when you're a dancer in a show, hearing some random technician whom you've never met ask everyone online "should I get a hair cut?" can be quite funny. He had this goofy voice and sense of humor. He was always good for a laugh.

But to reinforce gafftaper's statement, you never know _who_ could be listening.

Actually, reminds me of a "fair warning" our director gave us one time, which come to think of it, is probably how we learned to keep it clean early on. A few years before my high school career, A tech for Fillies Follies (my former high school's spring Drill Team performance) said about one of the girls on stage "[email protected], look at the t!ts on her". Several girls heard this in the dressing room, and a hefty lot of discipline ensued.


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## museav (Dec 10, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> I agree that was the purpose. But it was really irritating when you know what an SM really does. Now everyone is going to think that giving fashion advice is what a SM does during a show. If I was the real SM who worked that show I would be more than a little upset of how my work is being characterized.


That happens all the time. I still have to bite my tongue every time I see the Geico commercial with the video and control system mishaps in th hotel meeting room. But they're trying to sell their product, not create a documentary.

My most interesting comms experience was not in a theatre but in a county commission chamber. We had just installed the AV systems which included the audio and projection in the room as well as a video production system of several PTZF cameras with the Control Room located a floor below. For the first use of the new systems they requested that I attend and sit by the County Clerk, being on comms so I could respond to any technical problems that might arise. The two young ladies operating the video from downstairs spent the entire meeting telling dirty jokes to try to get me to lose it in front of everyone, they even tried to always keep one camera on me so they could watch my reaction and record it if I did lose my composure. I thought I did well until the County Chairman walked up to me after the meeting and asked if they had been giving me a hard time over the headset.


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## metti (Dec 10, 2010)

Just watched the clip and I have a couple thoughts:

I think it is entirely clear that coms were never routed to broadcast. This is clearly added as part of their "behind the scenes" motif for this show. My money is on prerecorded "com chatter" by a voice artist. I'm sure the real SM was called the cues for playback on the fake SM though.

I found it a little bit annoying, not because I found it demeaning to SMs but rather because it was just kind of repetitive and stupid sounding.

I would agree with blackisthenewblack when (s)he says that there is an interest in our industry. I think the vast majority of the general public doesn't care about the actual technical aspects of the show but they are interested in us and I think this mostly derives from a perception that we are in some sort of privileged position in our interactions with celebrities. I have mixed shows that have relatively notable performers from broadway and my actor/musical theatre friends always think it is a really big deal that I taped a mic to the face of a tony award winner. Personally I don't care, and I'm pretty sure this is the same for most of us, but the general public doesn't necessarily get this. I have found that actually trying to explain what we do is generally met with blank stares or some sort of comment that demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of what we do. IE: "So light designers figure out where to point lights?" Um, sort of...


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## erosing (Dec 11, 2010)

Alright, after watching this thread( and laughing about it) for the last few days, I decided to see what the fuss was about. I watched the two most tolerable clips I could find. In both examples there were portions of the faux SM and calls. I found it to be annoying but additive to the general theme they seemed to be attempting to portray during those portions of the show. Having instruments strung along the catwalk fitted with the calls, of note I only remember specifically it being that Katy Perry was going to come out, don't know if there was anything else there. During the second clip I watched there were more calls, bubbles had been flowing the whole number and the "SM" called out that one of the models could go with the bubble gun or something, it kinda worked artistically as a choice because many people will now believe that's what happens. The next one I remember specifically was, something like get ready for the finale, which I could conceive as being a realistic call. 

So, while I found parts annoying and unrealistic, I'm sure much of the viewers did not, although on an entertainment level, the cell phone commercial with "roadies" as twice as good in my opinion, but who wants to see (most) roadies in their under-garments.


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## shiben (Dec 11, 2010)

Arez said:


> So, while I found parts annoying and unrealistic, I'm sure much of the viewers did not, although on an entertainment level, the cell phone commercial with "roadies" as twice as good in my opinion, but who wants to see (most) roadies in their under-garments.



If Victoria's Secret made their undergarmets... And that was a MUCH better technical nod.


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## madeye (Dec 13, 2010)

I personally believe that the feed was fake, one that they even possibly pre-recorded. I feel like it was kind of obvious as their was no light or sound cues called during the show over the channel. I remember them doing the same thing last year at their fashion show and i read an article about the SM but that's all i remember about it, i will look for the article and post if i find it.


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## Anonymous067 (Dec 13, 2010)

madeye said:


> I personally believe that the feed was fake, one that they even possibly pre-recorded. I feel like it was kind of obvious as their was no light or sound cues called during the show over the channel. I remember them doing the same thing last year at their fashion show and i read an article about the SM but that's all i remember about it, i will look for the article and post if i find it.


 
Had it been real, there wouldn't have ever been a break. I'm sure with a show like that they don't really get a break.


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## puppydog (Dec 14, 2010)

I know that they used the "SM" feed in the 2008 show and I believe they used it in 2009. The feed has fly cues and stuff about the models and petticoats being on stage but does lack any light cues. Someone previously said in this thread there are no sound cues but I did hear "track three go" after the Katie Perry performance. My bet is on a voice artist doing them thouh at one point they did show a stagehand telling everyone to move back and actually showed the stagehand talking.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 15, 2010)

they Definitely chose which cues to go, but watching this on the television and seeing it in that format really shows, they weren't listening to just the SM calls. They had everything from talent manager to SM to Camera Manager on the Coms. It didn't really click until i got a bunch of people from our theater department to watch it and pay attention to certain cues. Its also good to note, while we never saw any fly cues they definitely had a ton, Considering they brought in lanterns glitter fabric and even a balloon drop.

I feel, and I know I'm going back on my post but i had to watch it again, that we are too used to stage management only on coms when honestly on a live television show + fashion show + classical stage type show, you will have many people all calling cues. it was probably decided during rehearsals what should be place into the audio feed.


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