# Pyro and Chain motors



## VL5 (Oct 6, 2009)

Im wondering about pyro, Ive been doing lighting for about four years now and i just got a giant show that the owner asked me about pyro and I said i know it looks cool but are there pyro systems and how do I control it ( i need all the details) is it controllable via DMX, also with chain motors how do you do automated truss ,thanks


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## Les (Oct 6, 2009)

Unfortunately, I don't think you will get any answers other than 'hire a professional' as both of these topics go against our TOS here at CB.

I can tell you that no, Pyro cannot and should not be controlled via DMX as it's unsafe for any 'critical' applications. Neither can chain motors in case it comes up. DMX is a talk-only protocol (it does not listen, hence, no error check). One bad signal setting off an unexpected explosion or truss movement would be a VERY bad thing.

Hope this helps.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 6, 2009)

Don't even think about doing anything involving pyro yourself. You need to hire a professional who is licensed in your state. There are many laws that govern pyro at both at the state and federal levels. All I can say is to call a professional, I think that is what everyone else will say too.


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## Van (Oct 6, 2009)

As Les has just stated, both Pyro and the Rigging of chain motors are strictly Verboten topics as Per our TOS. Discussions of where to find the info on how and who to contact are greatly appreciated, how there will be no discussion of How-To. I didn't see where you are from, but pehaps if you could supply some more info about the scope / scale of the project we might be better able to direct you in the proper direction.


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## derekleffew (Oct 6, 2009)

I concur with the above. As the saying goes: "If you have to ask...you shouldn't be doing it."

Here are two companies in your area, selected at random, that specialize in what you want to do.
:: PYRO-FX - Celebrate With The Works ::
United Staging & Rigging, LLC

Information provided as a courtesy only and does not indicate an approval, endorsement, or recommendation by Control Booth or the author of companies listed.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 6, 2009)

As for the truss...what exactly do you want it to do? Where are you located? Perhaps we can suggest some professional companies you can talk with...


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## VL5 (Oct 6, 2009)

thanks, I figured they could not be controlled with dmx, and I knew that a pyro company had to be hired but what im looking to do with thee truss is just simply have 2 ten ffot sticks of truss go up,down and tilt


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## BDS0111 (Oct 6, 2009)

Where are you located VL5???


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## Footer (Oct 6, 2009)

VL5 said:


> thanks, I figured they could not be controlled with dmx, and I knew that a pyro company had to be hired but what im looking to do with thee truss is just simply have 2 ten ffot sticks of truss go up,down and tilt



That takes more then just chain motors to do. If you are going to be tilting, you need to have load cells and all kinds of other stuff on the points and they have to be rigged completely differently from how you would reguarly rig a piece. This is something you need to contact a rigging company for. It is more difficult to do safely then it looks. When things start flying at odd angles the loads change drastically on each point.


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## gafftaper (Oct 6, 2009)

A cool note on Pyro controllers. Typically the controller is hard wired directly to the pyro device for safety reasons. However when I was taking my backstage tour at Cirque Du Soleil: Ka last year they told us their controller is wireless. It's a military grade control system. It sends multiple encrypted signals at the same time and only when all signals line up correctly on both ends does it fire. Crazy Cool!


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## Van (Oct 6, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> A cool note on Pyro controllers. Typically the controller is hard wired directly to the pyro device for safety reasons. However when I was taking my backstage tour at Cirque Du Soleil: Ka last year they told us their controller is wireless. It's a military grade control system. It sends multiple encrypted signals at the same time and only when all signals line up correctly on both ends does it fire. Crazy Cool!


 
Oh Sure! Then the Defence Department finds out you're doing a crazy Rock Show, subverting the minds of all those young able-bodied men and they secretly send a cover black-ops team to infiltrate the concert, then activate the pyro system via means of ....... 
Hmm time to change the foil in my hat.


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## FatherMurphy (Oct 6, 2009)

One of the provisions of the post-9/11 Patriot Act-type laws was that ALL explosives manufactured, loaded, and detonated in the US had to be done by individuals licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The laws were written in consultation with the mining, construction, and demolition industries, but did not consider the pyrotechnics industry, with resulting wording that included pyro by default. One immediate result was that every single 4th of July fireworks shooter now needed a FBI/BATF background check before being issued their license. One fireworks company based near me has over 4,500 shooters on the 4th... the paperwork required was staggering.

The upshot is that it's not just a good idea to call a professional pyrotechnician, it's the (federal) law.


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## MNBallet (Oct 7, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> A cool note on Pyro controllers. Typically the controller is hard wired directly to the pyro device for safety reasons. However when I was taking my backstage tour at Cirque Du Soleil: Ka last year they told us their controller is wireless. It's a military grade control system. It sends multiple encrypted signals at the same time and only when all signals line up correctly on both ends does it fire. Crazy Cool!



yes, very cool. I have one such system myself.


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## AdamBair (Oct 22, 2009)

If you don't have a Pyro license then you don't do it. Because "A guy explained it to me in a internet forum" isn't going to sound very good the local Fire Department Chief.


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## gafftaper (Oct 22, 2009)

AdamBair said:


> If you don't have a Pyro license then you don't do it. Because "A guy explained it to me in a internet forum" isn't going to sound very good the local Fire Department Chief.



It also isn't going to keep you out of jail when the Feds arrive.


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## carlmnz (Oct 28, 2009)

Advanced Entertainment serivces out of Las Vegas can do any pyro you need. The system is called Surefire from LeMaitre and can do wired in or Wireless. Your main can console can be how ever far away you need it to be from the stage and it uses slave units that actually send the electrical current that sparks the pyro. The main control bored and the slaves are conected by cat 5 I believe. With the main control you can fire everything by hand when ever you need to. What I had in place on Cruise ships was a program called Showman that recieved a timecode signal and fired cues from the program. The program was linked with the Sure fire console and when Showman fired cues Sure fire fired cues. The surefire console has a pickle than can be used as a fireing device or a deadman switch. We used it as a deadman when running the showman program. If the deadman wasnt pressed the pyro wouldnt fire as the shoman program was firing it. This program made it easy to have your cues right in sink with your music.


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## carlmnz (Oct 28, 2009)

And yes AES can set it up for you but you would still need a license to fire.


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## TupeloTechie (Oct 28, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> "If you have to ask...you shouldn't be doing it."



I'm sorry, but how did these "professionals" learn if they didn't ask first?


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## cprted (Oct 28, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> derekleffew said:
> 
> 
> > "If you have to ask...you shouldn't be doing it."
> ...


What we mean is, if you have to ask an anonymous internet forum, you shouldn't be doing it.

The professionals we encourage you to seek out have gone through accredited training programs and have formal certifications. Believe me, professional pyrotechnicians didn't learn their trade by watching how-to videos on youtube.


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## photoatdv (Oct 28, 2009)

Of course not, they learned in science class, duh!

Couldn't resist... and totally kidding!


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