# Personnel Lift without Outriggers



## kevinatblinn (Jun 24, 2015)

Does anyone use the Genie IWP-25S personnel lift? I'm considering it because it gets us up a little higher than standard trim and doesn't have outriggers. Is there another manufacturer I should consider also? I'm likely going with an AC unit.
Thanks!
Kevin (at Blinn) Patrick


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## Footer (Jun 24, 2015)

I would probably avoid that and get a run-about model or a standard AWP. Just keep in mind the IWP's will not move unless the basket is down. I'll just leave that there.


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## rochem (Jun 24, 2015)

I've used them at a few venues around town, and we had one in college as well. Pros are that it's quicker to move as you just need to pump it up and drop it from the rear pushing position without needing to move around to each outrigger. Cons are that it can't be moved at height* as Footer said, and its VERY heavy - it's a lot harder to maneuver in tight places and sometimes it takes two guys to get it rolling depending on the floor. For what it's worth, I've never felt unsafe in one of these - just as stable, if not more so, than a standard genie with outriggers.

*Like every safety feature, it can be defeated without too much effort. Note however that you should NEVER attempt to do this, as it's VERY unsafe. Just wanted to provide the full spectrum of information.


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## kevinatblinn (Jun 24, 2015)

The main reason I got the funding for this was because I caught more than one technician pushing around a coworker at elevated height without outriggers installed on a AWP. I don't have the extra $10k for a driveable unit. Aren't the products like the JLG MSP and Genie QuikStock more in the $20k range?


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## SteveB (Jun 24, 2015)

A JLG drivable, such as the 20MVL, is in the $15,000 - $16,000 range, versus $10,00 for the Genie IWP 25S. 

The JLG is close to a thousand pounds heavier (potential problem on wood floors and/or if you have traps), and cannot reach as high, but has the HUGE advantage of being drivable while at working height. 

We have an older version of the JLG, it's a perfect working height for us as our electrics trim about 20-25 ft. and cannot stress how much time this unit has saved us over the decade we've owned it. I'm certain it's paid for itself in saved labor. 

Big question is how high do you need to reach ?, as the single mast drivable units max out at about 20 ft. to bottom of basket.


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## Footer (Jun 24, 2015)

kevinatblinn said:


> The main reason I got the funding for this was because I caught more than one technician pushing around a coworker at elevated height without outriggers installed on a AWP. I don't have the extra $10k for a driveable unit. Aren't the products like the JLG MSP and Genie QuikStock more in the $20k range?



I'd flip that on its head and ask "if you get this are you going to staff calls AND change call times enough to ensure they come down every time?". If you can't move while up you should just buy 2 of these and double staff your calls and leapfrog the lift teams. The one day load in/focus/tech/go shows are not possible if you have to move genies like that. Get the unit that drives itself or just deal with moving it while up. I hate to say it, but it is industry standard practice (I'd leave the legs in though...) . It is not right though. The runabouts are twice the cost but well worth the money. They are slowly starting to gain traction.

Just buying this to keep someone from doing something when you already have a solution is rather insane. You need to go back to your desk and ask why they were doing it in the first place. If you place is anything like mine it is because without doing it like that you simply won't get done in the amount of time you have.


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## kevinatblinn (Jun 29, 2015)

Thanks everyone. It is not best in my space to have a unit that moves while raised. We do not work at such a pace that we need to move while elevated. The practice required by me, the lift manufacturer, and insurance says that lifts aren't pushed while raised. The Genie IWP-20s with the outreach option looks like the right option for me. Again, thanks for your thoughts.


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## LavaASU (Jun 29, 2015)

What about getting a used scissor lift if your floor can take it (a friend quoted one and it was under 10k)? I've worked in a few venues that only had scissors (or had mostly scissors and one man-lift and the man-lift was never used). I've worked in other venues with only the manlifts and we all complain constantly for them to get a scissor lift. The difference is amazing. It takes 2 people and about 1/4 the time to focus in a scissor lift vs 5 people in a man-lift. Go try doing a focus call in both before you make that decision.


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## SteveB (Jun 29, 2015)

kevinatblinn said:


> Thanks everyone. It is not best in my space to have a unit that moves while raised. We do not work at such a pace that we need to move while elevated. The practice required by me, the lift manufacturer, and insurance says that lifts aren't pushed while raised. The Genie IWP-20s with the outreach option looks like the right option for me. Again, thanks for your thoughts.



I'm not getting the logic.

Lifts that allow the unit to move while raised are designed for such use and are perfectly safe. They are in no way less safe then any other design and in my opinion are probably safer compared to a unit that requires the outriggers to engage the interlocks as there's no temptation to roll the unit while raised and with the outriggers floating, which is becoming common practice. 

I can understand weight or price being factors, but not safety.


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## kevinatblinn (Jun 29, 2015)

SteveB said:


> I'm not getting the logic.
> 
> Lifts that allow the unit to move while raised are designed for such use and are perfectly safe. They are in no way less safe then any other design and in my opinion are probably safer compared to a unit that requires the outriggers to engage the interlocks as there's no temptation to roll the unit while raised and with the outriggers floating, which is becoming common practice.
> 
> I can understand weight or price being factors, but not safety.


 
It's not the lift being able to safely move while raised. I trust the engineers who designed it. It's the student operators that I am keeping in check. I need the smaller size of a one-man lift as opposed to the scissor lift. I am getting the IWP-20s with the outreach option. It will work great for my situation. I definitely understand the value of the other units, and in another venue with another talent pool, I would choose a different lift.


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## SteveB (Jun 29, 2015)

Ah ! Since this is the first time you've mentioned students, it changes the priorities.

I agree with your choice (for whatever that's worth) and good luck with the unit.


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## danTt (Jun 30, 2015)

LavaASU said:


> What about getting a used scissor lift if your floor can take it (a friend quoted one and it was under 10k)? I've worked in a few venues that only had scissors (or had mostly scissors and one man-lift and the man-lift was never used). I've worked in other venues with only the manlifts and we all complain constantly for them to get a scissor lift. The difference is amazing. It takes 2 people and about 1/4 the time to focus in a scissor lift vs 5 people in a man-lift. Go try doing a focus call in both before you make that decision.



Well I love scissor lifts, I think if you have to choose between one or the other it's much more useful to have a single person man lift before getting a scissor lift in many theatrical purposes. You can fit a man lift into a lot of places a scissor can't, it's a lot easier to keep a man lift out of the way of the lights your focusing than it is a scissor lift, I'd rather not have inexperienced crew driving a scissor lift around on stage in the dark of a focus call, and if you are platforming your set at all it's a lot easier to design platforms that can support an AWP than it is to make them support a scissor lift.

That being said, in a pipe grid situation I'd much rather hang from a scissor lift than a man lift, any day. It's just a luxury, compared to the almost necessity of an AWP in my mind.


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## kevinatblinn (Sep 16, 2015)

I thought I'd follow-up on this. We did purchase the Genie IWP20S AC-powered with the Outreach Option. It gets me up to a 25' working height, and the outreach option gets us over installed flats and other obstacles, and when going parallel to an electric I can hit three or four instruments without having to move. If I could go back in time, I would choose to bother with the DC - I didn't realize that the AC would be so much slower. Time to invest in some 10g extension cords to reduce the voltage drop. Overall, I'm pleased with the lift and it is working well for our use.


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