# Noose Drop



## tomed101 (Jul 29, 2008)

In an upcomming show I need to have a hangmans noose (or something that looks like one) drop from the roof. I have a solenoid device which will work to do the drop but my question: In Australia what is illegal in terms of noose's? Is any knot which incorporates the hangmans noose knot illegal, or only ones which have 13 turns? If the hangmans noose knot is illegal, do you have any suggestions which will look real enough but is legal.

Cheers
Tom


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## Clifford (Jul 29, 2008)

I couldn't find anything on the handman's knot being illegal in Australia. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough. If you want it to be a realistic knots, use 6 or 8 turns for natural line and 10 for synthetic line. No real hangman's knots were ever actually tied with 13 turns, as it would make the knot large, awkward, and there would be too much friction for the working loop to close.


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## Van (Jul 29, 2008)

tomed101 said:


> In an upcomming show I need to have a hangmans noose (or something that looks like one) drop from the roof. I have a solenoid device which will work to do the drop but my question: In Australia what is illegal in terms of noose's? Is any knot which incorporates the hangmans noose knot illegal, or only ones which have 13 turns? If the hangmans noose knot is illegal, do you have any suggestions which will look real enough but is legal.
> 
> Cheers
> Tom


Go ahead Tie it! You can't tell me The Aussies have Roaming bands of "Noose Police" < I'm not a Lawyer or Solicitor, Barrister, or even a Legal aide> But seriously I wouldn't worry too much about it. 


Clifford said:


> I couldn't find anything on the hangman's knot being illegal in Australia. Perhaps I haven't looked hard enough. If you want it to be a realistic knots, use 6 or 8 turns for natural line and 10 for synthetic line. No real hangman's knots were ever actually tied with 13 turns, as it would make the knot large, awkward, and there would be too much friction for the working loop to close.


 
There's a reason they were tied with a lot of turns, and that 13 was the magic number. The idea of a hangman's not is that it doesn't slip much. The condemned is not supposed to choke to death he's supposed to die of a broken neck. That's why being hung with a "new rope" was a bad thing, since they are stretchier. The knot is intentionally bulky and at least a foot "long" < from the top of the bight to the top of the binding.> to make sure the neck is broken at the end of the fall. By placing the bulk of the knot directly behind the right ear prior to dropping the condemned you are, hopefully, ensuring that that when the rope goes taunt the loops will press the head forward and to the side so as to snap the C2-3 vertebrae. 
I once googled Hanging when doing some research, it's a search that will haunt me for all my days I don't suggest doing it.


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## tomed101 (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info. Now my only problem is finding about 10m of really thick rope. I am thinking a boating supply store might be the best palce but could be expensive. Any ideas where I could get cheap thick rope, preferably hemp.

Cheers
Tom


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## Clifford (Jul 29, 2008)

Hemp is always cheap. Get some 1" hemp line. That's what I'd use, maybe 1 1/4" if it can be had. I can't give you any specific places for Australia (I don't live there), but I can tell you that a boating supply store is invariably going to charge you more than whatever the Australian equivalent of Home Depot is. Find a big warehouse store, basically. It'll be cheaper for the same thing you'll get at the boating store.


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## bobgaggle (Jul 29, 2008)

why would nooses be illegal? its a knot. Even in America, where it has such a negative social connotation, its not illegal to tie. (It is considered an illegal symbol when used to threaten or harass, as my interpretation of legal wording goes)


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## soundman (Jul 29, 2008)

Why do you need so much rope? Are all ten meters in view or is that what you figure the site line and the knot will require? You might be able to save some cash by figuring out how much rope is needed to make it look real and then running cheaper rope from that point to the rigging device.


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## tomed101 (Jul 30, 2008)

soundman said:


> Why do you need so much rope? Are all ten meters in view or is that what you figure the site line and the knot will require? You might be able to save some cash by figuring out how much rope is needed to make it look real and then running cheaper rope from that point to the rigging device.



I am planning on two drops, one on each side of the stage. About 3m will be visible and I assume that about 2m will be required to do the knots and attach to the drop device on each side.


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## Van (Jul 30, 2008)

bobgaggle said:


> why would nooses be illegal? its a knot. Even in America, where it has such a negative social connotation, its not illegal to tie. (It is considered an illegal symbol when used to threaten or harass, as my interpretation of legal wording goes)


 Actually it is illegal to tie a 13 turn hangmans noose in some states, for the same reason that's it's illegal to carry a concealed Derringer. They serve only one prupose, killing. They are usually really old laws, like the prohibition of driving and automobile down Mainstreet in Oklahoma city, but they are laws and still on the books of many states here in the US.


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## bobgaggle (Jul 30, 2008)

Van said:


> Actually it is illegal to tie a 13 turn hangmans noose in some states, for the same reason that's it's illegal to carry a concealed Derringer. They serve only one prupose, killing. They are usually really old laws, like the prohibition of driving and automobile down Mainstreet in Oklahoma city, but they are laws and still on the books of many states here in the US.



hmm, didn't know that. But seems like weak logic on the part of the law makers. You can use any knot that locks a bite of rope as a hanging knot, just like you can use a noose to perform the function of any other sliding knot, ie. two half hitch, tautline, prussic. D***ed social stigma and connotations.


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## Dally (Jul 30, 2008)

Van said:


> Actually it is illegal to tie a 13 turn hangmans noose in some states, for the same reason that's it's illegal to carry a concealed Derringer. They serve only one prupose, killing. They are usually really old laws, like the prohibition of driving and automobile down Mainstreet in Oklahoma city, but they are laws and still on the books of many states here in the US.



Its still also illegal to hunt whales here...go figure. 
I used to work at Boy scout camp here in OK and the guys in charge of the Scoutcraft area (i.e knots) said a 13 turn noose was illegal in OK...so they made em with 11 or 12 for fun. Always good to scare the little scouts with


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## derekleffew (Jul 30, 2008)

Dally said:


> It's still also illegal to hunt whales here...go figure. ...


 Was there *ever* a time when whale hunting in Oklahoma *was* legal??? Seems the guv'ment is losing out on the fees from hunting licenses, and just encouraging breaking the law. If hunting is illegal, is trapping allowed? (Maybe with a noose?)


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## tweetersaway (Jul 30, 2008)

If you're really worried about it being illegal, just tie a stationary loop loke a bowline or something and use a seperate piece of rope to make the coils. If you conceal the ends, nobody'll notice. Unless of course, you need them to be functional...


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## tomed101 (Jul 31, 2008)

tweetersaway said:


> If you're really worried about it being illegal, just tie a stationary loop loke a bowline or something and use a seperate piece of rope to make the coils. If you conceal the ends, nobody'll notice. Unless of course, you need them to be functional...



Im not worried but I thought it would be a good idea to find out if there was a really simple thing like the 13 turns which are illegal. When I do it I will probably use 10 or so.


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## bobgaggle (Jul 31, 2008)

tomed101 said:


> Im not worried but I thought it would be a good idea to find out if there was a really simple thing like the 13 turns which are illegal. When I do it I will probably use 10 or so.



not to mention that 13 is aesthetically displeasing. (i think that was already said) 8 or 10 looks good


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