# truss spot?



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 21, 2005)

This might sound like a really stupid question...I have been wondering for a while what people mean by "truss spot" and "truss spot operator." does that mean someone is sitting on the truss witha mounted followspot? or are those intels that are supposed to follow a person? I did some google searching and the only info I found was about the truss spot op who fell off of a chain ladder at a bowie concert. Can someone please tell me about truss spots adn their operators, and what'd be really nice is a picture. thanks!


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 21, 2005)

It's basically just like a normal spot with a normal operator, except they are on sittling on top of the truss, strapped in of couse. they sit in a chair, and operate the spot beside them. I love climbing and focusing on truss, but i woudn't want to run a spot, being up there for 2+ hours with all of those extremly hot lights would suck. But if they told me to get up there and do it I probably would. It's always nice to get experience in different positions.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 21, 2005)

if anyone has pictures, I'd really like to see some! I've never seen a truss spot. If they aren't on the internet, you can email them to me. frogprince722 atyahoo.com 

thanks techieman for the explanation!


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 21, 2005)

http://www.roadie.net/portal/html/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=109

there's the url to one pic that kind of show it, it's not very good though.


----------



## ship (Feb 21, 2005)

You obviously have not found the URL about a female spot op stuck on a truss and needing to go really really badly in a way that empty coke bottles won't do correctly. Clear Com message - "I really really need to go!!!" Or is that just more local legend in how do you later clean the chair. Than again, there is for the other gender that which rains down which should not because they had to go worse than the mouth of the bottle. 1L. Coke bottles for all useful purposes to be somewhat crude.

The seats are race car comfie chair mounted to the top of the truss, but they lack a certain specific, very specific modisty much less functional thing to them. In getting to them you have fall protection in climbing the truss ladder and horizontal life line to walk the truss and wait. The David Bowie thing was a seriously bad day and one not normal.

It can be cool to chat at times about the coolness of being spot one for the show in despising certain songs when they are on the raidio, much less other show things but there is a certain extent about being stuck on a truss hours on end I'm glad I never had to deal with.

The big thing in follow spots last year was for Euro based tours - heavily modified beam projector substitutes for follow spots. Great lively beam of light once you counter balanced the sucker for a add on scroller to pintal mount. In addition to the follow spot ranging from say 1271 to M2 in the truss, learn the beam projector fixture as it will be back.

I have lots of friends that sit in these seats as part of their living. It's a living and fun for them. I more prefer to have a more 9:5 lifestyle.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 21, 2005)

sounds to me like the kinda' thing that is fun the first few times, then begins to suck slowly but surely. 

more questions: 

what is a bo'suns chair? 

where in that picture is a truss spot? I thought I saw it at first but when I looked I realized that what I was seeing is probably a chain lift, on the first truss there. all I see on the first two truss are pars and a few ellipsoidals. 

Ship, sounds like a code 249!


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 21, 2005)

Sorry, i guess those are just ellipsoidals, but the 2 on the front section of truss, would be similar to how a spot was positioned. 
Ship I've got you beat. When Weird Al came thru last summer, I was asked to truss focus for the first time, and the electrician was very weary about it, and didn't wnat me to use one on his harnesses, so we asked why, and he said he had a woman do it the week before, and she got so scared she had a "movement" in his harness. And some of it fell to the floor. Don't ask me how this happened, but he assured us it did. And of course after hearing that I was scared as hell the entire time I was up there. But after doing it a couple of times, it's become fun.


----------



## ship (Feb 22, 2005)

Easy to have me beat, I can about count on one hand how many safety harnesses, much less no hands how many truss ladders I have climbed. Though I'm somehow stuck with ensuring the repair or safety of the equipment to some degree more or less, you won't at this point find me climbing up to a truss. 

Thanks for the curse by the way. I already have to climb up to about the 98th floor of a sky rise in figuring out why a fluorescent fixture won't work this week. Next thing you know, I will have to trouble shoot a spot on a truss.

Not afraid of heights, just not wishing to tempt more of fate than has already been tempted.

Bosen's chair. Now that's something without harness I have tempted fate with in the past. It's say a swing chair - normally wooden planked that is hung from something so you can sit on it as you work. Now that is one of the most scarey experiences possible. Yea, I'll sit in it and bolt in the loft blocks from the under the gride side....


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 22, 2005)

Ya, climbing truss is one of those things usually left to us younger folks. Not saying your old or anything, i don't think we have anyone in my area over the age of 25 that will voulentarily climb truss.


----------



## ship (Feb 22, 2005)

No offense taken on my part. Those with brains by the time they hit mid to late 30's and above have real jobs in lighting or at least better things to do during a show or in support of it, that don't require climbing ladders and ensure their retirement, or real jobs elsewhere. (And I have just pissed off 1/3 of the IA industry.) Climbing truss and doing the spot thing is more a young person type of thing normally. I'm a theater person that got into the entertainment biz well after this early period in any case thus me not doing tours or shows.

I have run spot for shows, just on a more stable platform.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 22, 2005)

so, usualy, is the spot right over the stage, for a straight down spotlight? Or is it usually in a truss foh? 

Where I am, we have three battens. Oh, two tormentors outside too, but those are only 3 feet long so they don't count  I have never really climbed a truss...we have one section of triangle truss that I do not believe is for stage applications, we callit the "radio tower" and it sits up straight and we use it on stage sometimes for things. (heck, we've hung fences from the I beams in the roof before...we do alot of really wierd, really cool things for an event called SURGE that happens periodically. ) and I have climbed that before, trying to mount a light up high on it. didn't work, the pipe is too thin. it's also solid pipe, not hollow, which is another reason I am sure it is a real radio tower of some sort, not a stage truss. 

um....if any of you all have a pic, I sitll wouldn't mind seeing it, but if not, that's cool. I'm 15, so if we had one, I'd probablyw illinging climb it once or twice.....see, I'm scared of heights, so I might give up after that, but....the closest I have come is rigging in a genie lift,you have to climb up the outside spine to get in it, unless you have someone willing to push you around (I always have someone spotting me, but not always someone willing to push me around because it's heavy! ) and that's similar I supose to a truss ladder.


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 22, 2005)

The spots can be positioned anywhere, usually FOH, but when Keith Urban came through, they had a truss spot at the back of the stage. They can go pretty much anywhere. And a truss ladder is nothing like a genie, it's wire ladder, it sucks climbing it. You have to have someone on the ground to hold it tight, and it still swings like crazy. And you usually climb them sideways, it's a pain.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 22, 2005)

like a home fire escape ladder? I didn't think it'd be exactly like climbing a genie, but in general, that's the closest I get to climbing things, bieng up high in things, that stuff. Never seen a harness or fall protection in person.


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 22, 2005)

Ya, it's a lot like a home fire escape ladder, except it's usually a lot longer. Usually around 50ft. Though I've gone as high as 75ft. And the harness and fall protection isn't really anything special. It's just a normal harness, kind of like a thick seatbelt material. It's pretty uncomfortable as well. And the fall protection usually consits of a rope going from one end of the truss to the other and you clip your harness into that. There is a line inbetween, I can't remember what it's called at the moment, but it is bunched up fabric, and in the case of a fall, it will break apart and help to slow your fall. I just hope I never have to test it.


----------



## SuperCow (Feb 22, 2005)

The line is called ither a maynard or a lanyard.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 22, 2005)

i'm guissing it's like a seatbelt too in that it retracts as you go up, but if it is jerk suddenly it locks and then like you said the fabric breaks or soething to stop you falling.....

if it was jus a rope then when you fell you'd hit the ground. if it is just a short rope, then you coudn't clip int until you were way up there. so it has to retract, right? 

wow....75 feet above the ground? that's a few stories! man! i;ve got to try that atleast once somehow!


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 23, 2005)

Well they're 2 seperate devices. I've never actually used the saftey gear for climbing the ladder, though that is basically how it works. you clip the "lanyard" into it and then climb the ladder. When you reach the top, you unclip from it, and clip onto the rope that runs along the top of the truss. So your in kind of a dangerous spot right there. 
And yes 75ft. above the ground, it was an arena show. But the up riggers have it a lot worse than that. They are usually a couple of hundred feet up, dropping points for chain motors, but then that's why they get paid the big bucks.


----------



## Radman (Feb 23, 2005)

So are those shock absorbing manyards single use then? Like a helmet, if it did it's duty get a new one?


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 23, 2005)

Very much so, once they've been "used" they aren't any good. There isn't really a way to use them again. Well at least not effectivly. And if it's your life on the line, $100 for a new one is well worth it.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 23, 2005)

ok, so there is a retracting, single use rope called a maynard or lanyard, that you clip into t the bottom, and it retracts as you go up, but will lock and stop your fall if you fall. Then, at the top, on a one foot wide truss, you unclip from that line, and reclip to a rope, that I suppose run parallel to the truss...then if you fall you only fall a foor or two, and this rope, it's not single use, it's ljust heavy duty rope. 


right?


----------



## techieman33 (Feb 23, 2005)

No, sorry, I probably confused you. The lanyard, is always attached to your harness. And the retracting line used for climbing the ladder is seperate, it's kind of like the dog leashes that you can let out really long, or keep to just a couple of feet. And it is reuseable, unless someone falls, then I'm pretty sure it would have to be replaced. Same for the rope running parallel to the truss. Which by the was is just a 3/8 sash cord most of the time, which if you use the proper kind is very strong. I wouldn't just go to home depot and buy a rope and try to use it. But I'm not exactly positive on all of this, so take this whole thread with a grain of salt. I have worked with it all before, but it's been a while, and I have never had any offical training.

Horizontal life lines are I believe in not dealing with them any longer, 5/8" cord that is also provided with the fall protection supplier kit which is way more than sash cord and specifically engineered both by way of it's termination and nature of the cord to be designed around fall protection in mind. If you find a 3/8" horizontal life lie... reject the use of it in a very serious way.

As for lanyards, see the above Y-lanyards we went to and others will also be going to. Remind your production company that such things are on the market each time they do expect you to be un-clipped. Many fall protection companies out there. If you use the gear, you are also the one that is most in need to stay in tuned with what is on the market in sugguesting to the production company providing the gear what you would like to be using. They in turn will in also using the gear take it back to the production company and hopefully get it changed.

The vertical fall arrester is 3/8" wire rope.

(OOPs' Very sorry in editing my post somehow I Ship take offense to me, edited your own post and can't figure out where I began or not other than in the Y lanyards. Still the intent is to help. Insist on the Y! Re-Edit you post if possible and again sorry for doing so.)


----------



## SuperCow (Feb 23, 2005)

A maynard is stiched in such a way that it cas folds in most of it. If you fall, your weight rips the stitches apart and the maynard extends, and also slows your fall. On end clips to the D-ring on your harness, and you clip the opther to a hardpoint.


----------



## jonhirsh (Feb 23, 2005)

Hey here is a link http://www.christielites.com/rental/rental.aspx?M=F&CAT=126&Pg=1 

on it top to bottom

First full Body Harness
this is worn and you clip your ropes etc on to this

second Horizontal Life Line 
this is cliped on a truss so if your climbing across it and you fall you dont fall far

Third Retractable Life Line 
This is used when climbing up a truss ladder you clip it to your body harness it retracts like a seatbelt but with a sudden jolt will lock. this can be use many times but if a fall does ocure must be discarded do to safty regulations.

Fourth Lanyard Shock Absorbing
This you clip to your Harness when transfering to the truss from the lader you clip this to your harnness and your horizontal life line this can be used many times but it is best to replace it if a fall happens. 


Hope this helped


Jon Hirsh


----------



## ship (Feb 23, 2005)

One curious thing about lanyards is they don't do anything to slow the fall beyond the length of it - about 10' hits, than beyond that won't do much good to slow asscent before say after this as accelleration does not much match hitting the floor. Distance to the floor should play a factor into which components you use with fall protection thus, much less, in hooking into say a Geni, if it goes over, the fall protection won't do you much good. Also, once it is used it is cut up and replaced - you don't re-use even the harness.

In other words, while fall protection in general is a good idea, the debate of it's usefulness in distances under say 12', much less in clipping to a Geni is up for debate at times. At very least a harness given your speed is not enough to break your back or shock you would be useful still at these times but you have to realize that the lanyard is for distances of over 10'. Just a question at times of the lanyard thing in things like genie lifts etc. at short heights. The use of lanyards in the fall protection system is up for debate at this point by way of OSHA much less past debate on stagecraft.

For the climb up the truss ladder, it would be a vertical fall arrester used with a harness and lanyard - even a Y-Lanyard so you can clip onto your next horizontal fall protection safety line while still attached to the vertical as a better idea. 

This vertical fall arrester is something that yearly must get tested by the factory or a either authorized service center of it every year - and not cheap but necessary. 
This given you have not studied very specifically what they test and are as a now end user liable for it's inspection, compitent to have a yearly 200# fall test of the equipment to verify it will grab, in addition to the general inspection and inside inspection of it given you than have to break the seal that is also a liable thing.

The inspection is very expensive and very necessary. Where I work I was part of the first test by us of the equipment in realizing that it needed that yearly test for verification, and it being a in-depth inspection, but something we could also do as long as we went to the same extent and were now liable.

Free falls of about 6' tend to have the thing lock up in being a good thing but necessary yearly to verify. We do our own test but this given a very much more in-depth test than that first year where I was dropping 200# lengths of Soco cable off a balcany in testing the grabbing power of the vertical fall arresters. This in addition to taking it apart for an inspection. Not something just anyone can do. Still my name, it's date and certain doccuments had to be signed for each fall arrester.

I bring this up because more often than not given we had not thought of such a thing until a few years ago - much less had the gear but did not get it inspected yearly, I would not expect other companies who are charged with providing fall protection gear will have the vertical fall arrest gear tested yearly and this even if using it can be a problem. The vertical fall protection you use as provided by the company providing the equipment in it's certification often will not be tested. This inspection sticker and general condition is important to check before using the gear. It's probably going to be safe if in good condition, but something to have noted officially should you choose to use it still. I would not, but than again I'm now coming from more the management/liability side than the climbing on a no doubt 40 year old bosen's chair we found and used, in chaining to the grid with questionable methods and with out fall protection side - I would never now.

More specifically, with all rigging and fall protection gear, it is something the company that provides it should be verifying both by specific anual inspection of by way of inspection sticker and it being in good servical condition before the show and you risking your life with it. This is also something each person using it is also charged with inspecting and verifying. This applies to not only fall protection but any rigging. Every supplier and end user is responsible for safety.

Fall protection much less rigging or any part of safety or even re-lamping a fixture is not cheap. When it comes to someone dying given what is on the market and now necessary, there is no excuse.

As for truss, stage hands walk this type of thing, much less replel down from it or the grid in replacing either a bad lamp or even bad lamp base in a system every day. And I mean also repel down in addition to using fall protection to get there. Repelling I do know, and is also something useful to study and in this case get certified on if you plan to service the gear. More ascending than repelling also. No a drop line that has been dragged thru the mud or wound around stupid sharp edges is not a repelling rope, though by far too much in us by stage hands. For repelling since it's not a OSHA thing at this point, your own rope that you keep the record of - specifically static line if other than simple ascending is something you provide on your own. What repelling gear you use and provide including the rope at this point is a you thing. While both military and otherwise trained in repelling, I have not only the belt but because it's not a daily thing for me, also the shoulder harness attachment to it. Plus my own rope and equipment I am keeping the record of.

Repelling is different than fall protection. Do not cross the two in specific gear used or the usefulness in training on both. One you do provide your own training for and gear for - given you are the recognized repelling person, the other you would never but inspect what you are to use with fine tooth and comb.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 23, 2005)

wow, I'm learning alot!! I have seen pictures of the maynards before, in some catalog. But I didn't nkow this much about them!! Thanks guys for taking a question and answering it VERY well!!

Ship, just wondering, what do you do, in your job? not that I'm a stalker, but where do you work? (company name and what they do, nto city) And how long have you been involved in technical theatre, and all this stuff? how;d you get involved? thanks!


----------



## ship (Feb 23, 2005)

On horizontal life lines, they are 5/8" and specifically by termination and nature of the rope designed for this purpose. As for vertical fall protection, it's 3/8" wire rope coming from the equipment and also designed for this. 

On the lanyards, there are Y lanyards out there now. We have gone to them by way of our rigging people saying they were safer no doubt for these same "un-clipped" reasons. In using the gear, specify what equipment you would wish instead to be using. Stay up on what is out on the market and industry for fall protection - lots of suppliers of it and your use of it would necessitate your own involvement in what is out there and how to use it. Chances are those production company suppliers of the gear are both just as concerned about your safety and that of their own neck when they use it. Thus you advising of say a Y lanyard would be both useful and something they might invest in.


----------



## ship (Feb 23, 2005)

When at home at night, I intend to speak for myself.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Feb 23, 2005)

ah, Ship, you are wise! I never thought about all that. Could you tell me what your job is like, i mean, um, it's hard to describe. Like, myself, at my youth gruop, I run sound and lightgs, and fix anything that breaks. At your job, are you doing retail work, or gear rental, or do you fix things, or do you run live sound and lights, can you tell me that? also you never mentioned how long you've been working in technica things (not necessarily your job, but, how long have you been runnign sound, lights, whatever. ) or how you got started in it. 

another thing I noticed, you used the word "like" as a filler word atleast 3 times in that paragraph, and that struck me as odd. i use it as filler alot because it's a bad habit, i'm trying to not use that word to describe things so often. i'm not horrible about it, but i do use it alot. it doesn't seem to me that you write it very often. whatever. i probably sound like a perv. "where do you work? what do you do? when did you start doing it? omg, you used the word like as filler! wow! "  it's late. i'm tired. thanks Ship for all your help and all you others too whose usernames are longer and harder to remember==avkid and techieman are two i do rember but i'm too lazy to scroll down and write a speech thanking all of you for explaing to me what a truss spot and op is. thanks!


----------



## Peter (Feb 24, 2005)

Very well said ship. It is a tricky thing to do, balence your personal life with work and other obligations. I would strongly encourage everyone to take a sec and stop and setep back and think about what you do and the implications it can have.


My crazy story about having to keep different aspects of my life seperate....

My neighbor for all my life has been my good friend "D." Since I was 6 or so i have been helping him on his farm. In HS I have been a student rep to our disctrict's school committee for several years. On school committee, he was the chairperson and must be refered to as "Dr. D." As a student speaking to the school committee, I often had to speak as: A Representative from the Student Council, An Individual Conserned Student, and A Citizen of the District (I was the only student at most of these meetings). Keeping which part of me was speaking clear was/is vital to them understanding what I am saying and what kind of weight it carries. (Just to add more fun to the mix, my neighbor is now the superinendent of my school disctrict!) 

The moral of the rant..... Be sure the people you are talking to know who you are talking to them as!


----------



## jwl868 (Feb 25, 2005)

Hi 

OSHA fall protection can be found at this website:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/fallprotection/standards.html



Details on fall arrest systems can be found in 29 CFR1910.66 AppC:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9730


An interpretation letter about OSHA and theater can be found below. (People can write to OSHA asking for official interpretations of the rules. These letters become public record.):

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=22337



Also, bosun is short for boatswain. OSHA has Boatswain chair requirements in 29 CFR 1910.30 (Scaffolds).



Joe


----------



## RonaldBeal (Mar 9, 2005)

*truss spots*

Truss spots tend to most be used for backlight of performers, usually upstage of the performers positions. Having the backlight helps seperate the performer from the background so they are more visible.
(I have helped send up over 10000 truss spots, yes over ten-thousand.)
As for the safety equipment, if someone falls more than 10 feet, the equipment is not set up properly. Law says the equipment must begin arresting a fall within 6 feet, and that it must also prevent contact with any lower level. Additionally, once it begins arresting a fall, it must do so within 3.5 feet. 
If a production company does not have "Y" lanyards, then you must use 2 lanyards. This is not negotiable. you must be clipped in 100 percent of the time if you are above 6'.
I have had one truss spot fall when going to her spot. All of the safety equipment worked as designed, and she was uninjured (her ego was a little bruised.) One coworker in New York fell when trying to re-address a VL1000, and again everything worked, no physical injuries, (I'll see if I can find the picture.) I know of several instances where people have had harness on, but did not clip in (not on my shows). They all died when they fell.
The golden rule (if you don't remember anything else from this thread, remember this You should be clipped in to properly installed fall protection equipment 100% of the time when you are above 6' from any lower level.
Hope this helps, and stay safe.


----------



## JahJahwarrior (Mar 9, 2005)

I'm working out of a bucket connected to the lift arms of a lift like this:

http://www.genielift.com/ml-series/ml-1-5.asp

(not the exact lift, I couldn't find one like ours on their, but that's closest) 

I work maybe 20 feet up maximum. What can I do about fall protection? I highly doubt our church will spend a few hundred on a real fall protection system, but if they were to, what would we buy, and, if not, would tying a rope (like for rock climbing) to a harness and to the lift help at all?


----------



## techieman33 (Mar 10, 2005)

There isn't really much that you can do, unless you have something to clip into above you. You can clip into the bucket, but I'm pretty sure it's not reccomended. It wouldn't really do anything, and if anything could risk you pulling the lift down on top of you.


----------

