# Apparently, safety doesn't matter during rehearsals



## TupeloTechie (Apr 19, 2009)

So I was watching a rehearsal today and I see a batten going out real shaky. The batten is holding (3) 12'x4' Hollywood flats and 3 pieces of fabric about 12'x3'. I go backstage to see what is going on and I see 8 people hoisting up this batten with an empty arbor. I say STOP and have them bring it in and tell them to lock it. But the director tells them over com to bring it up and they tell me and I say "no its not safe, your an idiot if you do that." Well apparently they tell the director that I called all of them idiots and she blows up on me. I tell her that its not safe and that they shouldn't do it. She says that they need the practice doing it and that we have done it before unweighted. I say that it doesn't matter if we have done it before, its not safe and very idiotic. So now the director despises me... great! 

ps. What happened to the punching bag?


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## beachcombah15 (Apr 19, 2009)

hahaha funny story about punching bags...I walked into the shop backstage the other day to find that my crew has completely gone against my rule and hung a punching bag in the middle of the shop. The next day, one of my techies comes in with a cast on here hand, her response when I ask her what happened, she said "I punched the punching bag too many times." Needless to day I took it down that day and locked it up.


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## willbb123 (Apr 19, 2009)

I am so glad my HS didn't have a fly system. I am also glad I'm not in HS. 

This is now the third time I've responded a topic like this, and its really getting old.

You need to make sure this never happens again. Other times I said go to the director, then go to the administration. By now I've realized that student concerns are often ignored. So go to your parents. Tell them the director is making students work in unsafe conditions. Tell them that you feel that your safety (and life) is at risk. Administrators will listen to parents. Have your parents talk to other parents. This will make things happen. 

This is the third time I've said this, and I NEVER want to say it again. 

willbb123 said:


> I really don't want your next post to be talking about an accident.





After Thought: I am assuming you are in HS cause of the nature of the situation and the directors reaction to you saying its not safe. I apologize for my assumption if you are not.


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## tech2000 (Apr 19, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> I tell her that its not safe and that they shouldn't do it. She says that they need the practice doing it and that we have done it before unweighted.



That would never happen in my hs theater! Our director actually has common sense! (Something it seems this director lacks...)


TupeloTechie said:


> ps. What happened to the punching bag?



That would be dangerous with my crew...


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## fredthe (Apr 19, 2009)

Whover has the final technical authority in the facility really needs to have a talk with the director... 

The "Punching Bag" forum is still there, but from the comments, it may now only be accessable to supporters.

-Fred


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## TupeloTechie (Apr 19, 2009)

Yes it is a high school. The guy in charge of the place has no idea how to weight it or has any safety knowledge or common sense...


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## tech2000 (Apr 20, 2009)

I hope he isn't the one to teach the students how to operate the fly.


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## willbb123 (Apr 20, 2009)

It amazes me that you can become a theater teacher without any safety classes. Unfortunately its going to take a few accidents to change anything. 





fredthe said:


> The "Punching Bag" forum is still there, but from the comments, it may now only be accessible to supporters.



Yes the Punching bag forum is only visible to supporters.


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## TupeloTechie (Apr 20, 2009)

tech2000 said:


> I hope he isn't the one to teach the students how to operate the fly.


There isn't anyone to teach the students how to operate the fly. I learned at my old school.


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## fredthe (Apr 20, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> The guy in charge of the place has no idea how to weight it or has any safety knowledge or common sense...


Another reason why counterweight systems don't belong in High Schools... but there are many already in place.

Thankfully, you saw what was happening, and were able to stop it. The director may be mad at you, but you may have prevented a terrible accident. Please, don't let the director's attitude stop you from doing the same thing in the future.

As was said previously, it's time to get the parents involved and have them raise the safety issues to the administration. 

-Fred


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## fredthe (Apr 20, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> There isn't anyone to teach the students how to operate the fly.


If that is the case, then to be blunt, students shouldn't be operating the fly. If there is no one in the school properly qualified in rigging, and they wish to use the fly system for productions, then they need to hire qualified professionals to rig and run the show.

Using a fly system is more than just loading weights and pulling ropes... who is determining the proper methods for attaching scenery to the battens? If this isn't being done by someone qualified, then you've got even more issues.

> I learned at my old school.


At least they seem to have taught you well on the safety aspects... be thankful for that.

-Fred


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## lieperjp (Apr 20, 2009)

This is definitely something you need to change.

Just to warn you - don't adapt the attitude that everyone is an idiot and you're the right one. This won't help you at all. People will get the opinion that you're a jerk and won't listen to you.

But do show genuine concern for safety, this will get you farther than the previous attitude. If it doesn't, get parents involved.


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## photoatdv (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh for crying out loud how ****ing hard is it to reweight!!! Yes I've had that problem. Fortunately its getting better. The pros that do some of our shows finally started making some very strong suggestions about the safety stuff... and its helping. Seriously, there are situations stuff has to be out of weight, but it requires training to do that safely (which is clearly lacking 90% of the time in high schools, plus paying attention which is also lacking 90% of the times at high schools), and there is still a much higher chance of something going wrong.

Now if somebody'd figure out a way to fly in soft goods without it being way out of weight I'd love them . Can you guess what I got nominated to do last week?


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## willbb123 (Apr 20, 2009)

photoatdv said:


> Now if somebody'd figure out a way to fly in soft goods without it being way out of weight I'd love them . Can you guess what I got nominated to do last week?



Tiffin Scenics Mobile Winch System.


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## cdub260 (Apr 20, 2009)

photoatdv said:


> (which is clearly lacking 90% of the time in high schools, plus paying attention which is also lacking 90% of the times at high schools)



Only 90%?:shock:


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## photoatdv (Apr 30, 2009)

I make up the other 10% at my school. .


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## tech2000 (May 1, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> There isn't anyone to teach the students how to operate the fly. I learned at my old school.



How do new people learn?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TupeloTechie (May 1, 2009)

tech2000 said:


> How do new people learn?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



hmmm... trail and error i guess? 

I try to teach them but they still don't learn (or care.)


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## cdub260 (May 2, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> hmmm... trail and error i guess?



Trail and error? So they make mistakes as they're walking down the trail?


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## erosing (May 2, 2009)

Trial and error, especially during a rehearsal/event is a great way to get someone injured or killed.


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## tech2000 (May 3, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> hmmm... trail and error i guess?



That's kinda scary...


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## NickJones (May 4, 2009)

I must say I am continually amazed by the fact that a high school won't give you paracetamol tablets if you have a headache for safety reasons, but they let kids with no idea play with hugely dangerous things like fly lines. Just because the director said so. Luckily, a lot of the directors I have worked with have some technical knowledge, unlike in many HS situations where the director is a teacher who can shout a lot.
Nick
PS. If you have a spare line, why not fly a punching bag?


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## Franklights (May 4, 2009)

the real reason the director is mad at you is because you called them (inferring her for her decision) idiots for doing what was unsafe. You are 100% correct in your actions and thought process - it breaks down when you call them idiots and foolish pride gets in the way of a good decision. Diplomacy will work wonders in most any situation as long as you're dealing with reasonable people. To make your life easier from here on out I would let her know why you reacted like you did (safety is #1 for me and I don't want any accident on my watch kind of thing) and if she has half a clue she should react well.

Good luck to you!


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## draco17315 (May 4, 2009)

We have the same system at our school and that would NEVER happen. That is so dangerous. This might just be my opinion, but I have pretty much told my director in the past that I have the final say in safety! If a call of safety needs to be made, he can be mad at me, but I am making the call. We are there for the kids, not the directors! You did the right thing and don't ever think that being safe is stepping out of line. Also, like I have said in the past to my previous directors...." just because that is how it has always been done before, does not mean that is the right way or safe way to do it". I don't know if I would necessarily go to the crew parents first though. I would try the director, then the principal, then if that still doesn't go anywhere, then maybe talk to the parents. The last thing you want to do is loose the already (probably) slim help you get. You did the right thing 

Joe


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## teqniqal (May 4, 2009)

Working with your school district to get a Theatre Safety program in place must be a collaborative effort. If you don't get everyone involved, there is no buy-in, and hence, no support.
Players to invite to the party:

All those that use the Theatre / Auditorium
Drama
Choral
Band
Dance
etc.

Principal
School Safety Officer (not the top cop, the guy with the OSHA training classes - in most schools if you say 'safety' they think tornados and students with guns, so make sure you get the right guy)
Superintendent (he'll want to 'look good', so student safety is always a priority)
Shop Teacher (may be able to help with tool safety)
Any School Board / Trustee Member that is interested-in or supports fine arts programs (allies are good)
The physics teacher (great for counterweight training)
The chemistry teacher (knows hazmat & MSDS procedures)
School Risk Assessment Officer (handles insurance related items)
A Theatre Safety Specialist (consultant) - has broader knowledge of likely problems (if he doesn't, _get another_!)
Get together a list of concerns, take pictures of dangerous equipment (see my Theatre Safety Blog), a history of accidents and 'close calls', and put it in a PowerPoint presentation. Theatre Safety is not just about the rigging, it is about all potential sources of injury or property damage - Mechanical, Electrical, Thermal, Chemical, Personnel, Equipment, Procedures, Facilities, & Training.

After you get the ball rolling (or maybe _if you can't get the ball rolling_) add the local Fire Marshall (great for Fire Extinguisher training) and an OSHA outreach agent (yes, there are good guys at OSHA, too).

A Theatre Safety program has to be built buy all the participants from the inside out, otherwise no-one will get interested or involved.

A successful Theatre Safety program will address a safety topic every class period and in every rehearsal (just a couple of minutes will do after you get past the basics). You have to keep the idea of safety out front during production meetings, mounting, and striking shows, too. At every opportunity, you have to get the staff and students to ask themselves: *Is this safe for the cast, crew, and audience?* XSR & Die! is _not_ acceptable.

*One of the most important points that you can drive home is that you *_*must*_* have a Theatre Safety Program.* This is not an option. You are not exempt. OSHA requires that you have a safety program and that you keep thorough records of who is trained and allowed to perform different tasks. Get to know the OSHA Part 1910 and Part 1926 regulations - _they can save your collective bacon._ Of course, understanding the NFPA Fire Codes and the NEC Electrical Codes will help, too.

Generally speaking, if you can show the school the rule that must be followed, and explain to them why that may be in their best interest, you can usually get funding to fix things and provide PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) that doesn't come out of your theatre budget.

And lastly, be sure to explain that a Theatre Safety Program is focused on accident prevention. Many schools have an *'emergency preparedness program'* that deals with _'what to do once the horse is out of the barn'_, but they incorrectly call it a *'safety plan'*.


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## TimMiller (May 8, 2009)

I know i have said this before, but i ran into a huge drama with my college and over the safety, of the theater. After jumping in to save an actor from a falling piece that was not properly rigged i finally had it. I sent letters to the dean and the board of directors, including the very top head honcho whom i had just happen to meet at a reception a few days before dedicating the theater. I told them i rig everyday and work around moving lots of heavy things. I have never had to run before and i do not plan to ever do it again. Needless to say that student was no longer allowed to rig unsupervised. I do not allow any homemade aircraft cables what so ever unless they are load tested. Also all hardware must be rated. When i go into a highschool to help them out, i go through the same thing. Everyone knows, if i think it is unsafe everyone else will be informed.


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## ruinexplorer (May 8, 2009)

TimMiller said:


> I do not allow any homemade aircraft cables what so ever unless they are load tested. Also all hardware must be rated.



I'm not sure how you plan on load testing this type of rigging? I understand your concern about homemade rigging. If you have purchased the correct wirerope, sleeves, and thimbles, use proper crimping techniques (including the use of a go/no-go guage) or wire rope clips (properly seated and torqued), then the rigging is safe. No pull test would be required. 

Of course, only a qualified rigger could determine all of that, which is why I understand your desire for using professionally manufactured equipment only. Even with that, only people trained in rigging should be using said equipment since they would need that training to ensure that it is still good after the first use and not overload it during its first use.


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## jwl868 (May 10, 2009)

teqniqal said:


> One of the most important points that you can drive home is that you must have a Theatre Safety Program. This is not an option. You are not exempt. OSHA requires that you have a safety program and that you keep thorough records of who is trained and allowed to perform different tasks.



While I agree that safety is necessary in theatres, it must be recognized that a Federal or State occupational safety and health (OSH) law or regulatory “hammer” may not be available. The conditions under which many theatres operate/exist can often be outside the authority of OSH laws:

Specifically, the US OSHA laws only apply to private employers and employees. State and local government employees are not covered, unless there is a State OSH program. (About half the states have these programs). Volunteers are not covered. 

Thus, depending on the State, a public school theatre program may be outside the authority of US OSHA laws and regulations.

(From the OSH Act of 1970)

OSH Act of 1970

SEC. 3. Definitions

...(5) The term "employer" means a person engaged in a business affecting commerce who has employees, but does not include the United States (not including the United States Postal Service) or any State or political subdivision of a State.

(6) The term "employee" means an employee of an employer who is employed in a business of his employer which affects commerce.
...

SEC. 4. Applicability of This Act

...(a) This Act shall apply with respect to employment performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf Lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone.
...

SEC. 19. Federal Agency Safety Programs and Responsibilities

...(a) It shall be the responsibility of the head of each Federal agency (not including the United States Postal Service) to establish and maintain an effective and comprehensive occupational safety and health program which is consistent with the standards promulgated under section 6.
...

State Occupational Safety and Health Plans

The following states have approved State Plans [which pull State and local employees into a State OSH Program]: 

Alaska, Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, Oregon, Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Tennessee, Utah, Vermont, Virgin Islands, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming. 


Joe


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## teqniqal (May 11, 2009)

Regardless of how you interperet the OSHA madate, I know of at least one public high school that had their theatre shut-down for a year by OSHA due to unsafe conditions, so appearently _they do have jurisdiction_ in this area. Although the students and volunteers may not be directly covered under OSHA, the teachers and maintenance staff are covered.

The goal is safety, and the teaching the students about the regulations that they will be working under if they are ever in a paying gig should be the role of the school district (training for jobs is indirectly related to commerce). Lead by example, not follow due a lawsuit. The Chemistry Teacher has the students wear protective glasses in the lab, OSHA madate or not, so why shouldn't the same common sense apply in the theatre? Would you have a Theatre Teacher stand there with protective glasses and hearing protectors on and tell the student to use the table saw with-out any PPE? I think not.

It is that undercurrent of "we can't be sued", "we have insurance", "we have an emergency preparedness plan", "we don't have the time to teach this", and "we are exempt" that leads to poor decision making when it comes to safety. A good safety plan is about investing the time to prevent the need for emergency plans, doctors, lawyers, insurance, and worrying about getting fined or shut-down by OSHA or the Fire Marshall. Put your house in order and you don't have to worry about those things (that's not to say they are uncessesary, you just don't have to waste time and emotional energy worrying about them -- me? I got better things to do!).

Note that an "Emergency Preparedness Plan" is typically NOT an "Safety Program". The EPP is what to do when there is an emergecy (injury, weather, public safety threat, fire, flood, etc.). A 'Safety Program' is about educating and equiping the workers (paid or not) and administrators (paid or not) about hazard recognition and safe working practices. A Theatre Safety Plan is there to protect the Audience, Performers, Staff, and Volunteers. You cannot differentiate between those that are paid or unpaid, those that are students or teachers, those that work for the state or a private institutuion.

Or putting it more simply: A Safety Program is about 'keeping the horse in the barn'; an Emergency Preparedness Plan is 'what to do after the horse gets out or the barn or is on fire'.

Finally, if you go to just about any school's charter or feel good phrase that describes their educational mandate, you will almost always find some phrase that alludes to 'the safety and well being of the child'. *Hoist them on their own petard.* Look around your own school system and you will find all kinds of evidence that they alledgely care about student safety (signs, banners, fire alarm systems, playground safety manuals, first aid kits, fire extinguishers, school bus safety, football field safety, etc.). If they say they can't be bothered with Theatre Safety issues, ask them why they have all this other safety stuff around.


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## Sayen (May 16, 2009)

Show them selections from Dr. Doom's book, the title of which escapes me at the moment. Too many people think theater is unreguated and just for fun. Showing an established and known expert can be every effective. I sent a copy of the book with a few chapters bookmarked, especially on rigging, to my school safety officials.


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## tjrobb (May 17, 2009)

Here's one to boggle you. Our theatre had a rigging re-build in ~1980. Originally built 1927, there was no way to add a loading bridge. So, every time we rig to a batten, it will be way off-weight until we fly it out and re-weigh it. Our record is seven crew to bring the beast in, and trim height is 48' or so. It was a long pull.


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## teqniqal (May 18, 2009)

I'd be interested to know more about this facility. I've been involved in numerous renovations of buildings of that era and have always been able to get loading bridges engineered into the spaces. This is a very real safety issue and should be addressed. Please contact me if you are interrested in persuing a solution.


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## derekleffew (May 18, 2009)

tjrobb said:


> ...Our record is seven crew to bring the beast in, and trim height is 48' or so. ...


Extremely dangerous. Consider this as a safer alternative: 


Tiffin Scenic Studios, Inc.: Mobile Winch Systems.


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## gafftaper (May 19, 2009)

tjrobb said:


> Here's one to boggle you. Our theatre had a rigging re-build in ~1980. Originally built 1927, there was no way to add a loading bridge. So, every time we rig to a batten, it will be way off-weight until we fly it out and re-weigh it. Our record is seven crew to bring the beast in, and trim height is 48' or so. It was a long pull.



This is VERY dangerous. Too often we find it funny or cool that "one time it took 7 people to fly the batten in". That's *not *something to brag about. That's a sign that you were *VERY clos*e to a catastrophic failure that could have killed several of those people. You got lucky. Your ropes and rigging system as a whole is not designed to take that kind of out of balance strain. You should definitely look at some sort of motorized solution as Derek suggested. If you can't afford that, at least fly the batten in and out several times as you load so that you can load weight on as you go. If two people can't pull it you absolutely shouldn't fly it.

And while we are on the topic let's ask my favorite question: When was the last time the place was inspected? When were your ropes replaced? 

I find that often schools that have dangerous flying practices (like overloading a batten) are also places that never have their systems inspected and replaced.


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## WestlakeTech (May 20, 2009)

TupeloTechie said:


> So I was watching a rehearsal today and I see a batten going out real shaky. The batten is holding (3) 12'x4' Hollywood flats and 3 pieces of fabric about 12'x3'. I go backstage to see what is going on and *I see 8 people hoisting up this batten with an empty arbor. I say STOP and have them bring it in and tell them to lock it. But the director tells them over com to bring it up and they tell me and I say "no its not safe, your an idiot if you do that." Well apparently they tell the director that I called all of them idiots and she blows up on me. I tell her that its not safe and that they shouldn't do it. She says that they need the practice doing it and that we have done it before unweighted. I say that it doesn't matter if we have done it before, its not safe and very idiotic*. So now the director despises me... great!
> 
> ps. What happened to the punching bag?



There's a despair.com poster about stuff like that. Says:
"None of us is as dumb as all of us."


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## photoatdv (May 23, 2009)

So true-- people together and/or late at night (and sometimes in the heat of the moment in a show) can come up with the stupidest ideas.

Biggest out-of-weight condition I've even allowed handled beyond fixing someone else's mess is flying in a curtain to attach some stuff we were flying to the pipe (cardboard posters BTW). Though I did have a trainee fly that one so she could (as-safely-as-possible) get some experience with out of weight flying. For anybody that doesn't have rigging experience-- those curtains are heavy and create a way arbor heavy condition when you fly them in so don't try this w/o someone who knows what they're doing helping.


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## Grommet (Jun 9, 2009)

when i get new kids in the first thing i do is a little tour. It starts off with "a theater is a place where people have died, you don't want to be the first one to die here " then i will show them the fly system and have each one fly in and out a batten. Then we will go to the tool room, booth, catwalk, ect.

I have never in the 4-5 years of working at that high school had a kid be negligent with the flys. not even come close. 

Its only been the teachers and other adults with theater "experience". One of these "experienced" parents left one of the locks open. On it like a laser. Locked it up told the parent it needs to be locked then told my students to be sure to watch the parents.

Then there was a day where one of the batten cables got twisted. One of my students noticed this while trying to lower it. Our theory is that some one (band teacher) let the midstage arbor fall, hitting the bottom and the up ward momentum of the batten got the cables to jump a pulley. 


I trust the kids to things in a safe manner.
I can tell the difference between one who is interested in technical theater and drama kids who can't remember their lines.


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