# Pyro Cert Question



## Shawncfer (Jun 6, 2011)

Hey guys! So getting a Pyro certification is something I've been wanting to do just to have on the side and to put on my resume! Just a chance to expand my possibilities. So I have two questions for you:
View attachment sf238fwksguide.pdf

So these are the requirements for the state of Texas to get certified. The only thing I'm not understanding is which license I would want! The "Pyrotechnic Operator’s License", "Pyrotechnic Special Effects Operator’s License" or the "Flame Effects Operator’s License"?

Second, if I get certified in Texas, and I get picked up on a tour for Pyro, would I have to get some other certification to work in other states on the tour?


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## derekleffew (Jun 6, 2011)

I'd start by learning the distinction between licensure and certification. http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/general-advice/17418-licensed-certified-qualified.html


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## Shawncfer (Jun 6, 2011)

Okay, well same questions as above, but change Certification to Licensed. Which one of those Pyro License would I want??


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## Footer (Jun 7, 2011)

Call and ask the local and state AHJ. Tell them what you want to do and they will tell you what they look for when on site. Nothing matters except the guy on the ground that is telling you that you can't do something. 

...... Something involving tapatalk.......


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## Edrick (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm currently permitted to work under a licensed company in MA to do Pyrotechnics I need to work 10 shows in three years, get sponsored and take a test to become licensed. As far as I know each state you need to be licensed in.


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## metti (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that each state has its own license although there may be some degree of reciprocity. In general though, I think touring pyro guys work with locally licensed techs.


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## tdrga (Jun 7, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> Hey guys! So getting a Pyro certification is something I've been wanting to do just to have on the side and to put on my resume! Just a chance to expand my possibilities. So I have two questions for you:
> View attachment 5134
> 
> So these are the requirements for the state of Texas to get certified. The only thing I'm not understanding is which license I would want! The "Pyrotechnic Operator’s License", "Pyrotechnic Special Effects Operator’s License" or the "Flame Effects Operator’s License"?
> ...



The type of license you need depends on the type of shows you will be doing. I would start by reading the appropriate NFPA documents (1123, 1126 and 160). There is a big difference between a "public display" and "proximate display". 

If you are going to be mixing powder for fireworks or pyro, the BATFE considers you a manufacturer and you will need to obtain a Federal manufacturer's license unless you are working under another person's license and under their supervision.

If you have a license for Texas, it is not worth much in other states other than to show that you passed the Texas test. Laws vary so much that it's not feasible to keep up with every little variation around the country.

Tours work with "local shooters" who hold the appropriate license for the state/city/venue they are in. Those "local shooters" may not actually have any show duties, but they are responsible for making sure that the tour meets the local laws.

In today's post 9-11 world, pyro is becoming harder to get in to. Anything that can or does go "boom" attracts attention from all levels of law enforcement. If you don't have your ducks (and licenses) in a row, things get ugly fast. I lost count of the number of times the question "Do you understand that failure to comply with this regulation is a felony?" was asked at my last BATFE license renewal interview.

Long story short- if the only reason you want to have a pyro license is to put it on your resume, I'd weigh the time and effort against the rewards. No one will hire you as a pyrotechnician just because you have a license. It's a first step, but demonstrated experience (and still having all 10 fingers) is what will get you a pyro job.

If you are really interested, find a local pyrotechnician and see if they will let you shadow them on a gig. That will give you an opportunity to see what they do and ask questions.

-Todd


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## porkchop (Jun 7, 2011)

I'll answer your questions with as much info as I can but first I wanna give you a suggestion based on how I got into pyro.

There is a written prerequisite of having assisted 5 public displays for the Pyrotechnic Operators, and I'm sorry if I'm overestimating here, but I'm going to guess if you need to ask what each license is for you probably haven't done that. The other two licenses don't have a written prerequisite, but I assure you they do not give them out like candy.

In most states (and countries for that matter) you don't need a license to assist with a pyrotechnic event, you just need a licensed operator in charge of the whole thing. Because of this often times you need to show compelling prior experience before you can test for a license. Texas does their licenses in a different way than many places so I don't know for sure if this holds true in your state.

The best thing you can do is contact someone who knows for sure, the AHJ would be a good choice as they can tell you exactly what they want to see before they'll give you the test. Even better though, if you can get a hold of a special effects company in the area they can tell you what they would want to see before they hire someone, and they will more than likely be able to tell you the same information you would get from the AHJ. The key to that conversation would be making sure that they know you're looking for information first and a job second (if at all).

Pyro is one of those "break-in" fields where everyone wants someone with a good amount of experience and no one wants to train someone without it. If you want to do pyro (especially in Texas) you're probably gonna have to call around and make some friends in the industry.

Now to your questions:

From reading your attached PDF the Pyrotechnic Operator’s License could more generally be called and outdoor fireworks operators license, the Pyrotechnic Special Effects Operator’s License is for proximate audience (read indoor pyro), and the Flame Effect Operator is for anything using flame effects (primarily liquid propane effects). As for which one to get, any you can. The Special Effects Operator followed by the Flame Operator will be the most use in entertainment, but to be entirely honest the licenses are $45 bucks each the first time, and $25 each to renew. If it was me I'd carry all three.

The Texas licence is one of the hardest to get in the nation, because of this if you do get licensed it'll go a long way with AHJs in other states. In places where they are really picky about pyro licencing (Illinois, Texas, and New York for instance) it's pretty common for a touring company to hire a local "pyro shooter" so that you have someone from the area with a licence.

What having a pyro licence means is hard to define. This is because it doesn't matter what you, the state, or your company thinks the licence is good for, it matters what the AHJ thinks it means. In Florida you are licensed by the city not the state, so in theory your license is only good within those city limits, but practically applied most AHJs nation wide just want to see that you have a license.

Apply this internationally and it gets even more complex, In Quebec you have to have someone on the show with a Quebec pyro licence (which is different than the Canadian national licence). They are a really big pain about getting one person there with that license, but once you hire one person, they will give temporary sponsored guest licenses to almost anyone with a licence from anywhere.

In a lot of European countries they don't even ask about a license, they want to know about how the show is designed, how many shows this design has done, any problems you've had, and what past experience you have that makes you a qualified operator.

So basically a pyro license is a great thing to have on your resume, but if you're actually looking to do pyro experience is worth way more.


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## porkchop (Jun 7, 2011)

tdrga said:


> If you are going to be mixing powder for fireworks or pyro, the BATFE considers you a manufacturer and you will need to obtain a Federal manufacturer's license unless you are working under another person's license and under their supervision.


 
Unless it's binary compounds which is covered under NFPA 1126.


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## tdrga (Jun 7, 2011)

There are some binary compounds that can be mixed without a BATFE license, but if the resultant mixture is classified by BATFE as a high explosive, you will need a Federal manufacturer's license. It's not easy or cheap and if you've run afoul of the law in the past... Because of the licensing and storage issues, I don't think many shows are using those types of compounds anymore.

When I was on tour (a theatrical show, not rock show), we always had a "local shooter" for each stop. It made things easier to have someone local to "interface" with the local AHJ in case there were questions or concerns.

I don't do much pyro work any more but still have my Texas SEO and FEO licenses. I wouldn't call them onerously hard to get, as there is no experience requirement- you just have to study the NFPA standards and Texas laws and take the tests.

Brett, I concur that having experience is more valuable than just having the license- nice post.

-Todd


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## mstaylor (Jun 18, 2011)

My son is getting ready to start his training under a local pyro company. The company is the one that we use as our local shooter for traveling shows. In our area, all they do is interface with the local Fire Marshals and insure the show guy follows the rules. 
It will give my son experience shooting indoor and outdoor shows, including a weekly barge job.


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## skapp (Aug 18, 2011)

tdrga said:


> When I was on tour (a theatrical show, not rock show), we always had a "local shooter" for each stop. It made things easier to have someone local to "interface" with the local AHJ in case there were questions or concerns.


 
That is how I have always known it to work, have a "local shooter" at each stop. I have server as a Local Shooter in Ohio for several touring groups and shows. 

It really depends on the State the show is in. PA for example just requires you to work with the AHJ. Even for Professional outdoor displays. Thats about insane that new license, proof of training etc is required. Gotta love Commonwealth states!


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