# Cameras for Theater



## Sparky2012 (Apr 2, 2014)

My school is considering purchasing some camera's for our theater, but I'm at a loss as to what to buy. What would be a good camera to monitor the theater so that actors and stage managers can get cue's and such?

Thanks in advance!!


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## rsmentele (Apr 2, 2014)

Most of the time, you don't need a super HD camera to do what you need. In the past I've worked in theater's that have used consumer camera I have also worked in places with PTZ cameras and event one with a studio camera and a box lens. You usually are only worried about seeing a decent picture of the stage to catch things, you shouldn't have to worry about seeing the design of the fabric of a dress for example. If that's the case, most any camera will do, depending on budget. If you have a space with a long distance to cover between where you can mount the camera and the stage, you are going to need to look for something with good optical zoom, or replaceable lenses. So you will first need to decide the quality of picture that you need, and also your distance to the stage, and go from there.


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## rochem (Apr 2, 2014)

The standard all-purpose camera that I tend to see most often is the Panasonic WV-CP480, which is a cheap color/bw camera. Mount one on the balcony rail and you'll be all set. If that's too pricey for you, even the discontinued Panasonic cameras will be fine for your purposes - there's a WV-CP240 on eBay for $49 bucks at the moment. If you want something with PTZ capability and/or HD resolution, the price starts to go up significantly.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 2, 2014)

It comes down to how you intend to distribute the signal to the monitors. Decide how that is going to happen and find a camera to suit.


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## SoundGuySPI (Apr 6, 2014)

Ive used these in a few different applications even as a baby/ nanny cam Foscam they have a nice picture even in the dark they can have the option of an IR but the nice part of them is thy can be wirelessly connected and you can setup a video monitor in places like dressing rooms etc but also actors and even the stage or tech crew can pull it up on their mobile devices! also very easy to use!  Foscam Wireless IP Camera With IR Lens Kit (2-Pack, Black) B&H or the HD version Foscam FI9821W V2 H.264 Megapixel Wireless Indoor IP FI9821W-W both are nice!


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## Chris15 (Apr 7, 2014)

Just be mindful that with IP cameras, that there can be a non trivial delay, hundreds of milliseconds or more in some cases. For many applications this will be fine. For cueing, I'm not so convinced...


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## paulslhac (Apr 8, 2014)

At the theatre I work at, we use an (old) IP camera (Samsung SNP1000 - SAMSUNG TECHWIN CCTV ) and it does a pretty good job. Its handy for backstage (as like most theatres these days) we have a theatre audio feed but performers complained about not having vision. So as a tech we scrounged an old laptop we had lying around and hooked it up to the network, logged into the camera and viola! We had vision too. The Pan and Tilt function is handy too from a biobox tech too. We sit it outside the biobox and are able to keep an eye on any 'misbehaving' audience members with feet on seats etc. Handy 

Like Chris15 said....

> Just be mindful that with IP cameras, that there can be a non trivial delay, hundreds of milliseconds or more in some cases. For many applications this will be fine. For cueing, I'm not so convinced...



He is right, but its not much of an issue if its just for monitoring. Stage cue is a completely different thing and I would advise a coax based camera if you went down that road. 

Try stuff out. Thats my advice


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## dbaxter (Apr 9, 2014)

We use a security camera from Harbor Freight. It was pretty cheap, had a wide angle lens and came with infrared lighting - so you can 'see' the actors move during blackout. Outputs a regular 75 ohm coax signal. Plug it into a game adapter if you need channel 3 output.


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## Infinidean (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm going to piggy back onto this thread since it is fresh and very related to my question and situation.
We have a reasonably new TV in our lobby above the BO window that is hooked up to a computer. We use if for both promoting the college's theatre department, and as a marquee with tickets prices and information about the show. We are now looking to mount a camera in the theatre and run a feed to the TV in order to be able to allow late comers to see the show until they can be seated at a scene break or intermission. The WIFI network is sketchy at best, so I don't think a wireless camera is our best option. From what I've read about security cameras I am concerned that the signal won't be recognized by the TV unless it is run through a DVR first. Does anyone know if this is true? Is there a problem with just using a camcorder of some kind? A camcorder would easily hook up to the TV.

Secondary considerations:
-Potentially wiring it to a second monitor in the control booth
-Recording off the camera
-IR capabilities

Sorry for asking so many questions in one post. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.


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## dbaxter (Apr 17, 2014)

Let me amend my post. The security camera output is composite video. We get the 75 ohm coax output from the game adapter. That output can then be sent to a TV, splitter for dressing room, lobby, tech booth, etc. For Ininidean, the game adapter performs the same function as a DVR would as far as signal transformation.


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## Infinidean (Apr 17, 2014)

Dave, thanks for the quick reply. 
What kind of game adapter are you talking about? 
How good is the image from that kind of camera? As a monitor for the dressing room it doesn't have to be much, but for the lobby it would be nice if it were clear and sharp.


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 17, 2014)

Clear and Sharp are based largely on price, and Is It Color -- B&W cameras are generally sharper. I believe the game adapter he's talking about is essentially an NTSC distribution amp; VDAs are a drug on the market, no matter what type you get.


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## dbaxter (Apr 18, 2014)

I guess those adapters are getting rare these days, but I found a current link to one. And here you will find the camera. I've never connected it to a big screen TV. The dressing room monitor is an old 21" TV and it looks OK. Since it has the sensitivity for night vision, it does look washed out when the lights are full up. For our main use of seeing the stage during blackout, it's fine. I would try a little neutral density filter in front of it for lobby use. But for $40, it's worth a trial.


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## Infinidean (Apr 18, 2014)

Dave: When I google "game adapter" I come up with many, many different devices. I can't find any that seem to be what I think I should be finding. Can you please be more specific?
Jay: A video distribution amp seems to be something that is designed to do just what it says, amplify a video signal. It doesn't seem to be something that converts an analog signal, which is what I think most box security cameras output, to a digital signal, which is what a modern TV needs. I am probably missing something, but I'm tried to find the answers by googling but I am still confused. Can you imagine I know nothing about what you're talking about and try again?


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## dbaxter (Apr 18, 2014)

I put a link you can click for an adapter in my previous note. Didn't it come up?


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 18, 2014)

Hmmm. Are current TVs shipping with non-NTSC compliant tuners? I didn't think they could do that yet.

It depends, I guess, on whether you have monitors -- which will accept NTSC baseband -- or TV's -- which won't.

Also whether you want to modulate at the set, or modulate then distribute. I was assuming you had things with video ins (which is nearly everything), and that you wouldn't modulate at all, just amplify and split.

Camera NTSC Out -> VDA -> Monitor Video In(s)


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## robartsd (Jun 20, 2014)

The game adapters referred to are RF (radio frequency) Modulators. Typicaly thay have a regular 75 ohm type F coax connection for Antenna In and TV Out and RCA connectors for composite video in and audio in. There is usually switch to select between channel 3 and channel 4 (so you don't compete with the signal of a local station - but that doesn't matter now the RF freqencies for channels 2-6 are no longer used for broadcast television). They were used to connect video game systems to TVs that did not have a composite video input.

I don't think that TV's can be sold (to US market) without an NTSC tuner. I don't see a reason a manufacture would try even if not legally required to: the customer service costs associated with people who don't know why the TV doesn't work with their old equipment would probably outweigh the costs associated with including NTSC tuning.


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## AlexDonkle (Jun 22, 2014)

Chris15 said:


> Just be mindful that with IP cameras, that there can be a non trivial delay, hundreds of milliseconds or more in some cases. For many applications this will be fine. For cueing, I'm not so convinced...




paulslhac said:


> He is right, but its not much of an issue if its just for monitoring. Stage cue is a completely different thing and I would advise a coax based camera if you went down that road.



Going composite out of a consumer camera will also have delay (this was tried by the video guys at a theatre for IMAG while I was running sound, didn't work well)

The only way to have zero delay is using Genlocked cameras, which increases the cost significantly. As mentioned though, this isn't typically an issue with backstage monitoring, unless you're feeding the conductor a video feed during a musical...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 22, 2014)

Genlock isn't required. The issue is analog monitors. Even lcd monitors, though, shouldn't be more than a frame behind NTSC, I wouldn't think.

Sent from my SPH-L720


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 25, 2014)

@Sparky2012, what is your ultimate need? Do you need a single camera/view that is distributed to many different areas of the theater? Or, do you need multiple cameras that can be switched between at each position? Or, multiple cameras distributed to specific locations that cannot switch between views? Do you need the camera view to change (pan/tilt/zoom/focus)? These situations all have a variety of complexities and challenges involved.

You may or may not need to be concerned with frame delay based on how you are using it. I have been switching to the Bosch line of security cameras lately. I would recommend a brand like Marshall for the monitor. Of course, these brands will be on the higher end (I recommend commercial solutions for better reliability) and may be out of your price range.

Being that it has been a couple of months since you originally posed the question, have you done more research into what you are considering? Are you simply passing all of this on to the powers that be?


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