# Source Four Mini



## Les (Mar 14, 2013)

From Used Lighting's Facebook Page:

_"The Source 4 Mini is coming... It's 9" long and 1 lb. 10 oz. It uses a 50W MR16 lamp with supposedly the same features and functionality of the Source 4. There will be a track-mounted version as well.

With a price range probably between $250-$500 would you use this, and if so, in what way?"_




http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...02558426279.121543.93315491279&type=1&theater


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## len (Mar 14, 2013)

I'm guessing that it can't accept a B sized gobo, which means if I want to use it for that I need to buy new. Given that, I'd probably want a couple as a specialty tool, but it wouldn't be a main tool. I'd have to see the specs to decide, tho.


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## josh88 (Mar 14, 2013)

given that there is a track mounted version I see some of these going into stores. Some already use the full sized, but a store with track lighting may try to jazz things up and be hip and different. 

if it were closer to the $250 I'd seriously think about using one as a desk lamp


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## bishopthomas (Mar 14, 2013)

Looks like a really expensive (but really nice) pin spot.


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## derekleffew (Mar 14, 2013)

Les said:


> ...With a price range probably between $250-$500 would you use this, and if so, in what way?"


MR16 Altman Micro Ellipse is ~$220. LED ME3 Ellipsoidal is $400-450. Both include zoom. I doubt that many architectural specifiers will pick the S4-Mini solely because of its "cuteness" quotient.
.


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 14, 2013)

Bet ETC loves UsedLighting spoiling their USITT surprise. (just guessing)



But ERh Mah Gerd its adorable. Will look great with some Inkies and Birdies.


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## deadlygopher (Mar 14, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Bet ETC loves UsedLighting spoiling their USITT surprise. (just guessing)



Maybe when I yell "THROW IT" at the new product showcase they'll actually do it this time...


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## chausman (Mar 14, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> I doubt that many architectural specifiers will pick the S4-Mini solely because of its "cuteness" quotient.
> .



But they are cute little things aren't they. I need to get a few for our booth. The track lights have way too much spill into the house. I'd love to have something with shutters on it.


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## Les (Mar 14, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Bet ETC loves UsedLighting spoiling their USITT surprise. (just guessing)
> 
> 
> 
> But ERh Mah Gerd its adorable. Will look great with some Inkies and Birdies.



Yeah, and I feel kinda bad about perpetuating it. But in any event... It is cute and I want one to take with me everywhere.


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## rsmentele (Mar 15, 2013)

Interchangeable mini barrels? That would be AWESOME! Its a real PITA to change out bulbs in the birdies to change size... plus shutters... I think I'm in LOVE


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## Pie4Weebl (Mar 15, 2013)

I think my bedroom needs a gobo wash...


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## techieman33 (Mar 15, 2013)

I'd be a much bigger fan if it was LED.


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## Kelite (Mar 15, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I'd be a much bigger fan if it was LED.



It wouldn't surprise me if one is in the works-


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## Dustincoc (Mar 15, 2013)

Wsh had a couple for the Ghost House element of my current project. I'm nervous about the 2 Pars that are in there now because of how tight the space is.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 15, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I'd be a much bigger fan if it was LED.



That's the first thing I thought when I saw it. I kept looking for the letters "LED" and was disappointed not to find them. Why would they possibly be the same or more money than a full size S4? I guess I'm just not getting its usefulness.


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## techieman33 (Mar 15, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> That's the first thing I thought when I saw it. I kept looking for the letters "LED" and was disappointed not to find them. Why would they possibly be the same or more money than a full size S4? I guess I'm just not getting its usefulness.



My guess would be that it's the scale of manufacture that will make them more expensive. We don't really know what they will cost though since all we have is a very rough ballpark price.


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## Kelite (Mar 18, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> My guess would be that it's the scale of manufacture that will make them more expensive. We don't really know what they will cost though since all we have is a very rough ballpark price.



Purely my opinion:
As many successful manufacturing companies have learned over the years, the MSRP pricing of a new product in the marketplace may best be left unknown for a short time early in it's life. I think the adage to 'charge what the market will bear' is valid, but potential user feedback is pretty important to find where that pricing actually lies. I look forward to hearing the thoughts and opinions from those who have the chance to see the unit at USITT!


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## bishopthomas (Mar 18, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> My guess would be that it's the scale of manufacture that will make them more expensive. We don't really know what they will cost though since all we have is a very rough ballpark price.



Sure, and I understand the concept. But even the rough ballpark price range is too high, in my opinion. I feel like these should be $100. Who are they marketing this to? What possible use can it have that people will pay $200+ for it? Sure, it's "cute," but is it useful and worth the price? In my opinion it's a gimmick and will sell solely on that aspect alone. I might buy one for the cuteness aspect, but any real industry acceptance is not going to happen.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 18, 2013)

Doesn't anyone want to know what it will do before they decide it's too expensive? Personally, I'm not convinced it's for real, but what if it makes coffee in the morning and makes my whole day better? Cheap at any price.


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## Footer (Mar 18, 2013)

The museum and architecture world has been looking for something like this for some time.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 18, 2013)

I have a pretty good guess at what it will do. It's a light.


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## cprted (Mar 18, 2013)

I could potentially use a few for my model trains ...


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## bishopthomas (Mar 18, 2013)

Footer said:


> The museum and architecture world has been looking for something like this for some time.



Really? This is not only useful but actually filling a void in architectural lighting? I don't disbelieve you, I just find it odd that there's not something that can shine a 50 watt light and project a gobo. Sure, shutters are probably hard to find, but is that going to be the selling point?


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## chausman (Mar 18, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> Really? This is not only useful but actually filling a void in architectural lighting? I don't disbelieve you, I just find it odd that there's not something that can shine a 50 watt light and project a gobo. Sure, shutters are probably hard to find, but is that going to be the selling point?



In museums, yes. Especially in interactive type displays, but also in the exhibits that are only around for a few days/weeks.


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## Footer (Mar 18, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> Really? This is not only useful but actually filling a void in architectural lighting? I don't disbelieve you, I just find it odd that there's not something that can shine a 50 watt light and project a gobo. Sure, shutters are probably hard to find, but is that going to be the selling point?



I had a friend who toured for a year or two with one of the "bodies" exhibits. Every week was a new city.. every week she had to focus roughly 800 pin spots and junky mini ERS units. She said she spent a good part of load in just fixing the ERS and pin shot units. No one makes a good unit that can hold up, at least that is what she told me a few years back.


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## epimetheus (Mar 18, 2013)

What would happen if this was just a mock-up that ETC made as an April Fool's joke...


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## chausman (Mar 18, 2013)

epimetheus said:


> What would happen if this was just a mock-up that ETC made as an April Fool's joke...



Someone else may have to make one...


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## DavidNorth (Mar 18, 2013)

epimetheus said:


> What would happen if this was just a mock-up that ETC made as an April Fool's joke...



Good thought, but it's not April yet. I'd like to suggest that those who can, trot on over to USITT this week.

The first CB member to get their pic taken with a S4 Mini and posting it to this thread will get a special swag package from me. That way we'll know it's real and then we can get back to talking about how it works.

Ok?

David


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 18, 2013)

DavidNorth said:


> Good thought, but it's not April yet. I'd like to suggest that those who can, trot on over to USITT this week.
> 
> The first CB member to get their pic taken with a S4 Mini and posting it to this thread will get a special swag package from me. That way we'll know it's real and then we can get back to talking about how it works.
> 
> ...




Challenge Accepted.


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## derekleffew (Mar 18, 2013)

DavidNorth said:


> ... The first CB member to get their pic taken with a S4 Mini and posting it to this thread will get a special swag package from me. ...


CB staff members and employees/representatives of ETC not eligible to enter. Some restrictions apply. No purchase necessary. Actual mileage may vary. Kids, get your parents' permission before entering. Batteries not included. Offer not valid in all fifty states. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. All construction materials and methods must meet or exceed the most stringent federal, state, and local building, electrical, fire, and life safety codes.
.


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## techieman33 (Mar 18, 2013)

Sweet what do I win?


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## avkid (Mar 18, 2013)

Not a PhotoShop award.


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## STEVETERRY (Mar 18, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I'd be a much bigger fan if it was LED.



Stay tuned.

ST


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## STEVETERRY (Mar 18, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> Sure, and I understand the concept. But even the rough ballpark price range is too high, in my opinion. I feel like these should be $100. Who are they marketing this to? What possible use can it have that people will pay $200+ for it? Sure, it's "cute," but is it useful and worth the price? In my opinion it's a gimmick and will sell solely on that aspect alone. I might buy one for the cuteness aspect, but any real industry acceptance is not going to happen.



It's for real.

ST


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## Les (Mar 18, 2013)

This will gain popularity in light labs as well, methinks. Altman makes a nice Micro Ellipse (I own four, myself), so I'm excited to see how this Source Four Mini compares! 

One question which I figure will be answered soon enough -- I assume there's no way around that big yoke-mounted transformer although I don't see it pictured (while realizing that it could be chopped out of the picture). Not a deal-breaker at all; just curious. I was thinking of selling my old inkies, but I will be rethinking that if I can expand my micro-lighting collection!


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## techieman33 (Mar 18, 2013)

avkid said:


> Not a PhotoShop award.



Hey I'm offended, I worked hard for at least 45 seconds making that in paint 



Les said:


> This will gain popularity in light labs as well, methinks. Altman makes a nice Micro Ellipse (I own four, myself), so I'm excited to see how this Source Four Mini compares!
> 
> One question which I figure will be answered soon enough -- I assume there's no way around that big yoke-mounted transformer although I don't see it pictured (while realizing that it could be chopped out of the picture). Not a deal-breaker at all; just curious. I was thinking of selling my old inkies, but I will be rethinking that if I can expand my micro-lighting collection!



They do make 120v MR16 lamps, so it doesn't have to have a transformer.


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## Sean (Mar 19, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> They do make 120v MR16 lamps, so it doesn't have to have a transformer.



True....but the filaments are much longer, and they run VERY hot. And, for what it's worth, they do NOT have the same pins as the 12v lamps----one has round pins, and one has oval/flat pins.


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## techieman33 (Mar 19, 2013)

Sean said:


> True....but the filaments are much longer, and they run VERY hot. And, for what it's worth, they do NOT have the same pins as the 12v lamps----one has round pins, and one has oval/flat pins.



None of that matters a whole lot when designing a new fixture. They can design the housing to handle the extra heat, and the optics for the different filament.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 19, 2013)

Footer said:


> She said she spent a good part of load in just fixing the ERS and pin shot units. No one makes a good unit that can hold up, at least that is what she told me a few years back.



That sounds more like neglect and apathy on the part of the local museums. Anything can break in the wrong hands. I see no reason a properly used (and not abused) pin spot shouldn't hold up for years. I also think that the museums that would allow such neglect would not be willing to spend the money on these. I hope I'm wrong, maybe I'm just a pessimist.


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## DavidNorth (Mar 19, 2013)

We have another submision for consideration. 

The product looks real and his email says his name is Fred. But I think he will be denied the swag collection as he seems to be an employee and not currently at the trade show.

I pulled the swag today and will have it with me in Milwaukee so the winner can take home the goodies. Still looking forward to the non-employee, true non-staff CB member photo posting from the show here. Then let's meet on the booth!

See you soon,

David


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## JohnD (Mar 19, 2013)

Well, alrighty, question time, what size gobo, what size color frame, does it come with clamp? What is that hole in the yoke for? Perhaps a small 50 watt Source 4 Dimmer module? Does it come in colors? Ok, just had to ask. And yes, I want some.


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## DavidNorth (Mar 19, 2013)

JohnD said:


> Well, alrighty, question time, what size gobo, what size color frame, does it come with clamp? What is that hole in the yoke for? Perhaps a small 50 watt Source 4 Dimmer module? Does it come in colors? Ok, just had to ask. And yes, I want some.



E size gobo
2.75" x 2.75"
Mini c-clamp included
Hole in the yoke is for the LV transformer if you are getting the portable version
Comes in black, white, silver and custom colors upon request

The app sheet can be found here: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/miscdocs/S4_Mini_App_Sheet.pdf

David


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## derekleffew (Mar 19, 2013)

One _might_ wonder why the Source Four Mini is limited to 50W when competitors use up to 75W. 

One _might_ also take exception to the unit using source four nomenclature, since a)it doesn't use an HPL lamp and b)the MR16 lamp it does use (EXN ?) has only one filament segment.
.


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## jempage (Mar 19, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I'd be a much bigger fan if it was LED.



I know you couldn't get the x7 colour system in such a small fixture, but I wonder what the results would be if you swapped out the globe for a dimmable LED MR16? Phillips Master LED or something like that.


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## STEVETERRY (Mar 19, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> One _might_ wonder why the Source Four Mini is limited to 50W when competitors use up to 75W.
> 
> One _might_ also take exception to the unit using source four nomenclature, since a)it doesn't use an HPL lamp and b)the MR16 lamp it does use (EXN ?) has only one filament segment.
> .



1. Much more efficient optics--who needs 75W?
2. Really? How about chilling out for 48 hours to wait and see just how it performs like a Source Four?

But we have to say: "love the buzz!"

ST


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## techieman33 (Mar 19, 2013)

STEVETERRY said:


> 1. Much more efficient optics--who needs 75W?
> 2. Really? How about chilling out for 48 hours to wait and see just how it performs like a Source Four?
> 
> But we have to say: "love the buzz!"
> ...



Why not offer 75W for those who want it? If they don't they can lamp down to 50W.


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## MNicolai (Mar 19, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> Why not offer 75W for those who want it? If they don't they can lamp down to 50W.



And if you want individual control of multiple lights on the same dimmer, why not offer a 55w/77v version you can dimmer double?

Why not offer dimmer TRIPLING or QUADRUPLING while you're at it?

I want my flying car already.


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## zmb (Mar 20, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> And if you want individual control of multiple lights on the same dimmer, why not offer a 55w/77v version you can dimmer double?
> 
> Why not offer dimmer TRIPLING or QUADRUPLING while you're at it?
> 
> I want my flying car already.



Wireless power. Could be a useful option.


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## MNicolai (Mar 20, 2013)

zmb said:


> Wireless power. Could be a useful option.



Oh, of course. Any new lighting products need to be wireless like phones and iPads. It's 2013, after all. But it can't make the lights cost any more than they already do.


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## chausman (Mar 20, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> Oh, of course. Any new lighting products need to be wireless like phones and iPads. It's 2013, after all. But it can't make the lights cost any more than they already do.



At least they got the "smaller and lighter" part right... And I'm sure it has a "retina display" too.


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## MNicolai (Mar 20, 2013)

Speaking of Retina, after seeing an EDLT, I can't look at anything else. It hurts. This better have that or I can't use it.


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## bdkdesigns (Mar 20, 2013)

Here is the silver version with the track mount adapter. These things are pretty cool!


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 20, 2013)

bdkdesigns said:


> View attachment 9000
> Here is the silver version with the track mount adapter. These things are pretty cool!



Is bdk the swag winner!?


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## epimetheus (Mar 20, 2013)

Not to go off topic here, but what is the panel directly behind bdk in the picture above? Perhaps the integrated Smartswitch and AC panelboard I've been waiting for?


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## TheaterEd (Mar 20, 2013)

Edited to include proper link.
Me,

My Friend (don't know her CB user name, but she is a better model than I am)


It took me too long to Upload but David promised to mail us a consolation prize!
Gotta love ETC!


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## DavidNorth (Mar 20, 2013)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Is bdk the swag winner!?



Indeed, bdkdesigns is the winner! 

However, I did also spend some great time with TheaterEd and friend in a span of time where we all thought they were the winners, so I will take care of them too. 

I have something for you, bdkdesigns, so come see me or Laura at the booth tomorrow! I invite everyone else to stop by as well and see what all are calling "cute."

David


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## DavidNorth (Mar 20, 2013)

epimetheus said:


> Not to go off topic here, but what is the panel directly behind bdk in the picture above? Perhaps the integrated Smartswitch and AC panelboard I've been waiting for?



You are correct. It is the Echo relay panel, due out in about a month.

David


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## gafftaper (Mar 24, 2013)

Just wanted to let you know we shot a great video with Fred Foster demonstrating the mini just for CB. Since dvsDave doesn't get home until late Sunday night (and he has a day job to get to), it may take a bit to get it edited and posted. But getting that video up is a top priority and it's worth the wait! 

List Price will be around $300-$400 depending on the color and version. Yeah that's a little pricey. But it's not just a toy. It's a nearly exact working copy of a full size S4. It has almost the exact same number of parts. Shutters work, barrel rotates, slides to focus, and can be changed... When it's been on for a while the little brass screw on the cap will burn your fingers at 1/3 scale of a standard S4 burn  As a result of all the details, the cost to make one ends up about the same as a full size fixture. 

As for the price differences between variants. The lamp is 12 volt so you need a transformer to plug it in. The ceiling/wall mount version hides this simply in the mounting plate. The theatrical version has a c-clamp and the transformer mounts to the side of the yoke like a S4 - HID. The track light version has a fairly expensive mount attached which makes it the most expensive in the line. There will be some price difference based on color as well. All the fixtures we have seen are prototypes, they are working on UL approval and then they will be available for sale in a VERY short time. 

I was impressed with the output (as you will see in the video). Think of it as a birdie with shutters and gobo projection. That makes it not only cute but also useful. It's the kind of thing we will all want a few of in inventory to solve unique problems. We will also want them at home and in the office because they are awesome. You could build a really cool light lab with them. The biggest application I see will be lighting pictures and other display items in places like museums, restaurants, and stores. 

I know what I want for Christmas! 


Sent from my cm_tenderloin using Tapatalk 2


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## BobHealey (Mar 24, 2013)

Pardon my ignorance, but if this thing requires a 12V transformer to operate, does that imply it can't be connected to most dimming systems?


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## gafftaper (Mar 24, 2013)

Although the prototype we saw was constantly on, I'm pretty sure Fred said that it is fully dimmable. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## zmb (Mar 24, 2013)

BobHealey said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but if this thing requires a 12V transformer to operate, does that imply it can't be connected to most dimming systems?



There is some way 12 volt track lights can be dimmed with the 120v being dimmed from a regular wall dimmer. It is some sort of circuit inside, not a wire wrapped iron core transformer like on a power pole.


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## Malabaristo (Mar 25, 2013)

zmb said:


> There is some way 12 volt track lights can be dimmed with the 120v being dimmed from a regular wall dimmer. It is some sort of circuit inside, not a wire wrapped iron core transformer like on a power pole.



Actually plain magnetic transformers are fine to dim. The only concern is that this can generate more heat than would normally be there when not dimming. This can be a concern if you're using a load equal to the transformer's rating, but if you have a 75W transformer and a 50W or smaller lamp then you won't have any problems. Magnetic transformers labeled as dimmable simply take the derating into account for you.

You're right, though, that it's probably an electronic transformer as they're smaller and more efficient. Hatch, Lightech, and others all make dimmable electronic transformers for 12V lamps in a variety of sizes. Some will work correctly with a standad SCR or TRIAC based wall dimmer, but some require an ELV (reverse-phase) dimmer.


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## gafftaper (Mar 26, 2013)

Our video of Fred Foster demonstrating the Mini for CB at USITT is now up and running here in the USITT 2013 Convention subforum.


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## JohnD (Mar 28, 2013)

Online sales info from a couple of vendors:
ETC Source Four Mini - PNTA
NEW ETC Source Four Mini | NewLighting.com on New Lighting - New Stage and Theatrical Lighting Equipment, LED Lighting, Trussing
4Wall is stating late April shipping. No discount prices yet. EDIT: which lamp? Is it the EXN which derekleffew mentioned up-stream? Or some other 50 watt, 12 volt MR-16, what happens if you put in the wrong one?


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## llburg (Mar 28, 2013)

So according to the spec sheet, it looks like the 50w 35* version of this : http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/EurostarIR12V.pdf


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## starksk (Mar 28, 2013)

llburg said:


> So according to the spec sheet, it looks like the 50w 35* version of this : http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/EurostarIR12V.pdf



Correct.


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## llburg (Mar 28, 2013)

So will any 50w, 35* MR16 work? What about LED retrofit lamps? Looking through the spec sheets on those, most specify they are not to be used in a totally enclosed fixture, which I'm guessing the Source Four Mini is. Has ETC done any testing on these?


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## JohnD (Mar 28, 2013)

Merrily keeping this thread stitching along, some thoughts on the lamp.
http://1000bulbs.com/search/?q=eurostar+IR
It is interesting to note that the Eurostar IR 50w,35* is the most expensive of all of them. ETC lists lamp life at 4000hrs and ushio lists lamp life at 6000hrs, I wonder if this has to do with the enclosed nature of the fixture.


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## JohnD (Apr 3, 2013)

I was looking around online and 4wall/newlighting.com shows late April shipping and PNTA shows a May 1st release date.


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## JohnD (May 14, 2013)

Just saw this this morning, a sale price:NEW ETC Source Four Mini | Ellipsoidals on New Lighting - New Stage and Theatrical Lighting Equipment, LED Lighting, Trussing
And look at that, the video is courtesy of ControlBooth.


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## DuckJordan (May 14, 2013)

I wonder if they asked first....

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD


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## josh88 (May 14, 2013)

DuckJordan said:


> I wonder if they asked first....
> 
> Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD



It does say "provided by" now that could mean "thanks for making this for us to steal it"


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## xander (May 15, 2013)

I like how the "Features" list the lamp twice with two different hour lives. And I'm not sure what they mean by "tool free lamp adjustment" when there is no bench focusing the lamp...

way to go 4wall


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## Les (May 16, 2013)

xander said:


> And I'm not sure what they mean by "tool free lamp adjustment" when there is no bench focusing the lamp..



Hence, no tools needed!


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## gafftaper (May 16, 2013)

josh88 said:


> It does say "provided by" now that could mean "thanks for making this for us to steal it"



"Please Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who."

The better question is, do we care? As long as there is still a CB logo at the start and ending, the answer is No! More people watching that video means more people learning about CB. If you Google "ETC Source 4 Mini" the number one result is that video and the number two is this thread. That makes dvsDave very happy.


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## josh88 (May 16, 2013)

I don't care whether they asked or not, I was just impressed that if they just used it on the site they did make a point to cite where it came from. 


Via tapatalk


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## JohnD (Mar 31, 2014)

And now, for the LED version:
http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/datashts/7063L1003_S4_Mini_LED_Datasheet_revB.pdf
PNTA says it will be available April 1st!!!!!
ETC Source Four Mini | Stage & Theatre Lighting Equipment | PNTA
So, was it at USITT?


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## JChenault (Mar 31, 2014)

JohnD said:


> And now, for the LED version:
> http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/datashts/7063L1003_S4_Mini_LED_Datasheet_revB.pdf
> PNTA says it will be available April 1st!!!!!
> ETC Source Four Mini | Stage & Theatre Lighting Equipment | PNTA
> So, was it at USITT?



It was there. Slightly brighter ( or at least bluer ) than the tungsten version. Transformer on the side of the fixture. No DMX ( ie will not dim out to 0% smoothly). Did not get hot. That's about all the difference I saw.


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## DavidNorth (Mar 31, 2014)

JChenault said:


> It was there. Slightly brighter ( or at least bluer ) than the tungsten version. Transformer on the side of the fixture. No DMX ( ie will not dim out to 0% smoothly). Did not get hot. That's about all the difference I saw.


 
Actually, it does dim to 0% smoothly....sorry we didn't show that there. It is indeed possible to dim LEDs to 0% smoothly and R+D departments need to start figuring out how to do this. Coming up from 0% is more difficult.

David


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## JChenault (Mar 31, 2014)

DavidNorth said:


> Actually, it does dim to 0% smoothly....sorry we didn't show that there. It is indeed possible to dim LEDs to 0% smoothly and R+D departments need to start figuring out how to do this. Coming up from 0% is more difficult.
> 
> David


David

You might want to spread that meme internally. The rep I talked to said it would cut out at the low end.


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## rsmentele (Apr 1, 2014)

I saw a unit on at an expo on 3/25, and it was nice to see... no DMX needed, just dims via line voltage, so easy to install seeing that only power is needed. It would be cool to see a Luster version, but I'm not holding my breath, as the applications where that is needed/desired would be minimal. But still very cool (pun intended) for permanent install applications. I'm still jealous that all ETC employee's got a incandescent version for Christmas... I'm still waiting for mine!...


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## Creative Troy (Apr 28, 2014)

Hey everyone! Delighted to see there's a forum about all this lighting stuff! I am an architect and am looking to use a Gobo projection in an installation I am creating. Here's the brief below...

I am creating an installation in a hostel in the UK and am interested in using Gobo lighting within it.

There is a graphic being printing 4 meters by 2 meters along a hallway and we want to project onto it when the lights are turned off using a completely silent gobo projector.

Attached is the graphic intend with the gobo lighting turned on and off aswell as a graphic showing the width of the hallway in where the projection light is intended to go. There is room for movement too and from the wall if needed.

With the research I have done I believe the Mini Source Four projector with a 50 Degree Lens should work. With the detailing I have provided can you confirm I am correct?

Also are there any other options that are more affordable as I still have to convince the boss this is worth doing!

Any input would be very much appreciated thanks guys!


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## josh88 (Apr 28, 2014)

Outside of what you asked, the sandman logo (I don't know about the other stuff) is copyrighted so be careful using that. You could find a used full size or junior S4 for cheaper, there are other options too like led projectors too.


Via tapatalk


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## Creative Troy (Apr 28, 2014)

josh88 said:


> Outside of what you asked, the sandman logo (I don't know about the other stuff) is copyrighted so be careful using that. You could find a used full size or junior S4 for cheaper, there are other options too like led projectors too.
> 
> 
> Via tapatalk



All artwork will be commissioned to local artists. The current graphics are just to present the idea.

What I'm finding is that the LED Projectors dont have a very wide angle lens and as I can't physically go back too far from the wall this leaves the projection area quite small.

Also there is a health and safety issue with bumping heads so that is why I need a small projector. The Original Source 4 looks huge!

Thanks for replying though this is all new to me!


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## techieman33 (Apr 28, 2014)

At the distance your shooting a full size or jr source 4 would probably be way to bright even with the smallest available lamp. It would probably be way to big physically too. Can you project from the other side of the hallway? My biggest concern would be that shooting from that much of an angle you would have a lot of keystoning (the top of the image will be a lot narrower than the bottom) to deal with. A 50 degree lens isn't really ideal for image projection in the best of cirumstances, and the steep angle won't help matters. You could probably make things work with the LED version of the mini, that way you could print your own transparencies and just throw in their and if it doesn't look right you can tweak the image in a graphics program and try again. That will make things a lot cheaper than ordering a custom gobo only to find out it doesn't look right and needing to order again.


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## Creative Troy (Apr 29, 2014)

techieman33 said:


> At the distance your shooting a full size or jr source 4 would probably be way to bright even with the smallest available lamp. It would probably be way to big physically too. Can you project from the other side of the hallway? My biggest concern would be that shooting from that much of an angle you would have a lot of keystoning (the top of the image will be a lot narrower than the bottom) to deal with. A 50 degree lens isn't really ideal for image projection in the best of cirumstances, and the steep angle won't help matters. You could probably make things work with the LED version of the mini, that way you could print your own transparencies and just throw in their and if it doesn't look right you can tweak the image in a graphics program and try again. That will make things a lot cheaper than ordering a custom gobo only to find out it doesn't look right and needing to order again.



Yeh by the sounds of it they'd burn a hole through the wall! haha

Yes it think I may have to project from the other side of the hallway. Which isn't a major problem just means tall people might cast a shadow. That would result in using a narrower lens which would be better. I've been told if you know the exact pitch you are setting the light you can get glass gobo's made that take keystoning into consideration? I am waiting to hear back from a company to see if they can do this.

This is all great input guys I really do appreciate this as I'm new in the office here and really want to nail my first creative project. If it gets realised I will make sure to post pictures!


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