# High School Venue Survey



## JohnD (May 8, 2016)

Just curious what high schools have for a venue. In my area the school system has an auditorium and is adding a new concert hall. For several years they floated the idea for a PAC but decided on the concert hall instead.
If your school has a PAC do they provide funding and staff for it? Do they have a performing arts program? 

*a thingamatorium could be any of the multipurpose rooms, gymnatorium, cafetorium, dojotorium (why not?)
or one of the other hybrids. One example of this could be this:
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/what-would-you-buy-next-for-my-venue.39905/#post-345251
I suppose you could call this an Audinasium?


----------



## josh88 (May 8, 2016)

I have an arts building/PAC. I'm in a private boarding school though so we're a bit different. We do a musical and a play and various other performances throughout the year. We also have a morning meeting for everything 3 times a week so we gather in that theatre for it. I'm the main staff, though it houses all of our Arts classes, so we have a drama teacher, music teacher, 2 art teachers and happen to have our technology department in the building as well. The funding provided just gets assigned as needed out of our arts department budget. Not sure if this is helpful in any way.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (May 8, 2016)

Interesting poll, and although I've consulted on probably 40 or so high school projects in tech last 10-12 years, I don't think I can respond.

I like your introduction of the thingamatorium designation.

Probably no one cares but an auditorium is generally the seating area, and the stage is the performance area. Auditoriums don't have stages. Having looked at a lot of older plans, this is something that use to be clear and widely understood. And stage wings are just a part of the stage, also no longer clear. I think most commonly a "theatre", or theater" if you prefer (and I hope not "thee-8-tor") is the collection of a stage an auditorium along with the audience support spaces (lobby, box office, etc.), performer support spaces (dressing rooms, greenrooms, backstage restrooms, etc,), and a technician support spaces (shops, booths, etc.). Not sure that always differs from a PAC, but a PAC may have more than one stage and auditorium - thus multiple venues. (Of course @Stevens R. Miller does make a good point that "It's often a fool's errand to attempt to impose a taxonomy onto a thing that is not necessarily subject to an ordering or partitioning.") I still am unable to distinguish between a recital hall and concert hall very well, less as I get older and learn of or see sub-100 seat "concert halls" and in-excess-of-1000 seat spaces called "recital halls".

You leave out a place for the black box or studio theatre, and just curious how rare that is in high schools. (In my experience, they get deleted form public schools somewhere before construction, but not always; and stay in private school projects.)

Last, I'm curious where else I can find outside of two projects I worked on and was the proponent for a drama theatre and a concert hall, on the basis the music events are usually the more frequent and largest (audience wise). Consider that the stage commensurate with a large (800-1000 or more seat space that might be justified by the music program of larger high schools) is large and expensive. I can just about design a concert hall and smaller drama theatre for the same cost as a large multipurpose space that serves both, and you have two spaces with fewer schedule conflicts as well. Just a thought and not sure if this is much heard of at all. It does not support the (generic) high school musical very well, though 200-400 seats with a commensurately sized orchestra pit and stage house is, in fact, very supportive of young performers in a musical, not to mention not requiring as much scenery - so hopefully quality rises as sheer mass and square feet lessens.

I look forward to the posts here and survey results.


----------



## JohnD (May 8, 2016)

@BillConnerASTC , I added black box/studio. 
As far as theatre vs theater, George Izenour titled his wonderful book "Theater Design".
I also wonder if other than Black boxes, are thrust stages being built? After the Guthrie Theater (yes Theater) it was the hot ticket concept. I am familiar with two in Oklahoma, one in the OSU student union which I did a lot of shows in, and the ill fated Mummers in OKC, which was a great space but doomed to failure.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (May 8, 2016)

I think http://grammarist.com/spelling/theater-theatre/ is about right, either is fine.

As far as thrust versus proscenium or even arena, I wouldn't bother because it's a main stage in a high school. I've not consulted on many new thrust stages in K-12 market, but have renovated a few. While as a form that I love as an audience member, it seems unsuitable for a k-12 multipurpose auditorium and stage.


----------



## JohnD (May 8, 2016)

My take is that whatever is on the marquee is fine, they both work. As far as the concept that theater is film and theatre is live drama, it should be noted that among others the Atlanta Fox and the now gone New York Roxy were spelled theatre.


----------



## Dionysus (May 9, 2016)

Around here I don't know of any school (other than a few select highschools in the largest cities) that have anything other than a "thing-a-torium" or small black-box drama room (other than a single example of a small drama room that actually has a stage and a grid). Some of them (okay many) are actually rather hideous.

There are gymnatoriums in plenty, and some cafetoriums, even a gymna-cafe-torium (what a useless space). My old highschool actually is blessed to have TWO Gymnatoriums and a drama room that doubles as a small black-box. Unfortunately both gyms are not equipped properly to be used rightly. The smaller of the two needs to be turned into a theatre space to be used (even installation of the "grid", dimmers, everything) and the larger is far less useful (however it still has much of its original lighting system from the 60s at least). At least the smaller gym can be shut down for a couple weeks once every couple years without too much trouble, converted into a temporarily usable space, and gym classes made to squeeze into the larger gym.

One of the highschools I do work for has a cafetorium where in the stage is actually the drama room making it a triple-use-space effectively. Actually I find the fact that it is the drama room a major hindrance. It is a major pain, with no place to store scenery, no wings, and the teacher's desk between where curtains go stage right.

Honestly there just isnt money for anything else outside of "big cities"... Heck even enough of the city schools have multi-use-spaces.


----------



## petercav17 (May 9, 2016)

My school's theater is a performing arts center in a public school that gets funded jointly by the school district, township, and donations. We have all the the district music and events as well as some road shows and concerts and ballets from outside.

It's a thrust stage with the house raked so steep it's basically an arena (seats 1700). Our lighting positions are truss and catwalks. The stage makes for some interesting challenges.

Year round we have a TD and an ATD as well as box office staff and an artistic director. Myself and other students are hired as crew for road shows that come through.


----------



## Moose Hatrack (May 9, 2016)

JohnD said:


> I suppose you could call this an Audinasium


 Or AdNauseum?


----------



## seanandkate (May 9, 2016)

Dionysus said:


> Around here I don't know of any school (other than a few select highschools in the largest cities) that have anything other than a "thing-a-torium" or small black-box drama room (other than a single example of a small drama room that actually has a stage and a grid). Some of them (okay many) are actually rather hideous.



Ditto in my neck of the woods @Dionysus. Of the half dozen brand _new _high schools I have seen, there are all based on the same blueprint of a stage between the drama room and cafeteria with walls that can be drawn to cut it off from either space depending on where it's being used. LOTS of noise transfer and they use the same circuits for the front of house bar in both rooms (as I discovered focusing a plot in the drama room, while a permit was in the caf trying to see their PP presentation while lights kept coming up on their screen). Moronic.

I've got a black box at my school that I'm very pleased with (but wish the grid was higher) that's both my class and my theatre.


----------



## chausman (May 9, 2016)

My high school, and several others in large districts in town, all have what I would consider a performing arts center, with multiple performance spaces that could be used. The ones I know of all have a large ~500 seat theater and a smaller blackbox along with support spaces (smallish scene shop, costume storage, dressing rooms, makeup "room"). Ours also had a "TV studio" that was originally used to do live video announcements before budget cuts meant there wasn't a teacher to run it. And our district has a theater teacher for each high school that teaches a stagecraft elective and acting elective, and then a few sections of something (English, usually). Our funding came from a small budget from the district and ticket sales. And we didn't have any paid TD or anything like that.


----------



## Dionysus (May 9, 2016)

seanandkate said:


> Ditto in my neck of the woods @Dionysus. Of the half dozen brand _new _high schools I have seen, there are all based on the same blueprint of a stage between the drama room and cafeteria with walls that can be drawn to cut it off from either space depending on where it's being used. LOTS of noise transfer and they use the same circuits for the front of house bar in both rooms (as I discovered focusing a plot in the drama room, while a permit was in the caf trying to see their PP presentation while lights kept coming up on their screen). Moronic.
> 
> I've got a black box at my school that I'm very pleased with (but wish the grid was higher) that's both my class and my theatre.



We aren't THAT far away Sean, only like 3 hours drive . But yes the split cafetorium-drama room seems like a REALLY BAD IDEA, but I understand why people designing schools think its a GREAT idea.. Especially knowing how the Ontario government determines "allowable" square footage and school funding.

There are so many problems with the cafetorium-drama room that make is SO FAR from ideal for much of anything. Especially since seating area has to be a cafeteria at least once every school day. No booth means its own complications, but they aren't so bad, except for consoles and equipment being abused. This one I am referencing has TWO lunch periods to contend with so there is lunch-room-noise to contend with for two class periods every day. The front of house lighting positions are impossible to be used for drama class, however the light board still controls them so kids tend to turn on and off lights they can't even see. The space's FOH positions were TERRIBLE before I started having anything to do with them, so we've managed to add two ETC SmartBar 2s with a properly placed FOH position. The drapes are ALWAYS in the way, and since no-one is allowed to be up on a ladder except a brought in contractor (me) they are always in the way and get damaged constantly. I could go on and on.

A LOT of work went into turning an old "electrical shop" to "drama room blackbox" at my old highschool to make an acceptable (small) performance space and drama classroom that will actually work acceptably. After bringing in seating risers it seats about 70 with a decent sized stage. 10' grid height. Shoebox dimmer packs. Speakers behind the audience. A fair number of drama teachers are envious of this space.
The seating disappears when not wanted and makes for a large and functional classroom space.

I've been a part of hosting the district Sears Drama Festival "back home" for a number of years, and it sort of bothers me that last year when we converted the previously mentioned gym into a functional theatre space (took a week nearly) how nearly all of the drama teachers were amazed at the space. We did the best we could with nearly no budget at all, and I would call it functional.


----------



## darinlwebb (May 9, 2016)

We've got a Performing Arts Center. I like the definitions I'm seeing about multiple venues - part of the design here was that the performing arts classrooms (drama, orchestra, vocal) all serve as high quality rehearsal and recital spaces, if not performances spaces in their own right - though it's unfortunately up to the instructors to keep up a professional appearance so the audience doesn't feel like they're in a classroom.

Other than the multi-venue aspect, a PAC should have elements that serve the non-drama clients. If this were 'just a theater' I don't think they would have bothered with acoustical shells, marley rolls, and stock risers, platforms, chairs and stands, and grand piano storage.


----------



## firewater88 (May 9, 2016)

We have 3 divisions in our district, so 3 high schools (10k + students). Each school has their own auditorium and they do some concerts (band, choir, orch- elementary to high school), plays and one acts there. We also have a dedicated performing arts center (where I work) centrally located in the district, not near a school. All musicals and majority of concerts are done here throughout the year as well as our summer program. We also do some outside rentals as well as touring shows in my space. So I could check 2 boxes off in the poll.


----------



## TheaterEd (May 11, 2016)

When I first started here it was just an auditorium, but since we've officially had a concert in the lobby, I call it a performing arts center now 

In my neck of the woods, we have been seeing quite a few PAC's being attached to schools in the past few years.


----------



## RickR (May 12, 2016)

I'm in the same area as @chausman but likely see more schools. They cover the usual range, but much seems to depend on the school size. 1000+ and you get a PAC or single theater with widely varying support spaces (7 in the metro area) less and you have thing-atorium (5-ish), <500 and it's a band platform that can barely be called a stage. (? 10?) City vs rural has a lot to do with both size and attitude. If 4H or FFA is big then drama is not. 

Note that the music department ALWAYS has more sway than any drama program.


----------



## Evans Poulos (Sep 30, 2016)

The high schools around me in the suburbs each have a dedicated theater space, as well as, one or more small performance space / drama class room. 
The HS one of my daughters goes to has a 1200 plus seat theater and one drama room with a 'performance platform and a minimal lighting rig of its own. The other daughter goes to one with a smallish (300?) auditorium/ thrust stage area. And a new listing for the poll - I'm calling it a 'black bag' performance space. They took half a gym and hung curtains on 4 sides with seating risers semipermanently installed.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Sep 30, 2016)

We are fortunate enough to have 6 PAC's in our district. Originally built 3 in order to provide a quality space for HS events, but also to serve the community with an affordable venue for seminars, meetings, performances, dance recitals, etc. Prior to their construction the main option was the local union roadhouse which was cost-prohibitive for the majority of the local clientele. All of the venues are the same basic footprint and all have one full-time TD/Manager. We support the school primarily, but fund our consumables and tech upgrades through public rentals. It's a bit lopsided in terms of rental income since the locations of the venues are sometimes prohibitive for certain types of events (e.g. some are in residential areas, not near highways, etc). 

The school district supports these buildings with maintenance of HVAC, fire safety, major electrical, plumbing, etc. There is a bit of debate governing the maintenance of our fly systems and we're sort of in the midst of a detente of sorts, but I would be interested to hear how other schools handle this part of the system. Our rental income simply can't handle inspections and repairs, and our argument is that it is part of the building and an expectation of our clients that this equipment is functional and safely maintained.


----------

