# Tracking Navigation System Marketed to Theatres



## DaveySimps (Aug 24, 2011)

I just came across this article and thought I'd pass it on. It is from the Business Incubator program at my alma mater. It is interesting in the fact that it is coming from a business that is trying to cross market to us. Usually we are the ones stealing ideas from other industries.


~Dave

Theaters Sold On OU Incubator Client’s Tracking, Naviation System « CBS Detroit


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## JChenault (Aug 24, 2011)

You know. The linked to article really makes me angry and frustrated. No where does it say what a 'tracking system' Is or how one would use it. Lots of attempted hype about how great it is without ever explaining why it is great. The vendor got my attention, and then wasted my time and his by not communicating effectively.

Sorry - just had to vent


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## DrPinto (Aug 24, 2011)

My theater already does this without the need for GPS technology.

Our stage crew has "the ability to move set pieces in any path and orientation completely wirelessly". They have wireless headsets and spike tape.

As far as knowing "the precise location of each performer", if we lose one, we just open a box of pizza and they magically appear.


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## chausman (Aug 24, 2011)

DrPinto said:


> As far as knowing "the precise location of each performer", if we lose one, we just open a box of pizza and they magically appear.


 
And how exactly are we suppose to keep actors from taking the "tracking device" off?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wait...you have a problem with loosing actors?


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## mstaylor (Aug 24, 2011)

I've never lost an actor, had a few I would have liked to but never actually lost them.


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## Footer (Aug 24, 2011)

This is actually pretty cool technology. The article was poorly written, but the technology is sound. Here is what it is doing: 

Traditional automation usually runs on some sort of track. Either physical tracks in the deck such as a knife or a wire guide track. Those tracks have to be laid into the deck. Some automation can run without but you have no feedback where the object is on deck. What this technology will allow you to do is put these transmitters on each piece and through receivers you will be able to see exactly where that piece is on deck at any given time. Think of it as GPS for your stage. Kind of like the Autopillot system, but better. This will allow set pieces to move 2 and 3 dimensions on deck without tracks built into the deck. It will also allow those same packs to be put on performers to start/stop cues if a limit is crossed. So, instead of spending days setting up tracks, limits, hard limits, etc you can just place the piece on deck, record a point, and move on. Personally, I'm pretty excited about this. Its going to save a ton of time on deck and allow shows to have much better automation without the labor that it used to require.

Also, this is a press release that is made for locals to read about what is going on in town. In a place like Detroit where industry is in the crapper, anyone buying anything is news.


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## jstandfast (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah, this seems to be so much flack-speak gobbledygook. We need some more research into what's really goin' on here


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## DaveySimps (Aug 24, 2011)

Footer said:


> This is actually pretty cool technology. Also, this is a press release that is made for locals to read about what is going on in town. In a place like Detroit where industry is in the crapper, anyone buying anything is news.


 
Absolutely correct. Also keep in mind that that the press release is from a business incubator. All they want to do is draw attention to their services, not necessarily the company at hand, or the technology involved.

~Dave


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## ScottT (Aug 25, 2011)

So it's basically a souped up version of TTA's Stagetracker? TTA | Total Theatre Audio Control


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## Footer (Aug 25, 2011)

ScottT said:


> So it's basically a souped up version of TTA's Stagetracker? TTA | Total Theatre Audio Control


 
Similar idea. Its also simular to the Wybron Autopilot. However, I have a feeling this one is accurate to at least and 1/8 of an inch. The autopilot and TTA system can be off by 6" or a foot and its not the end of the world. This system is really made to automate machinery in a factory and have self driving forklifts. Its pretty insane technology that can't afford to be off or wrong. From the looks of it they put both motion control and location all in one unit.


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## VCTMike (Aug 28, 2011)

Footer said:


> Similar idea. Its also simular to the Wybron Autopilot. However, I have a feeling this one is accurate to at least and 1/8 of an inch. The autopilot and TTA system can be off by 6" or a foot and its not the end of the world. This system is really made to automate machinery in a factory and have self driving forklifts. Its pretty insane technology that can't afford to be off or wrong. From the looks of it they put both motion control and location all in one unit.


 
I wonder what the safety review of that is going to be like. Man in the loop will still be needed but now they will rely on the wireless communication to not fail if they are truly aiming for trackless 3D automation with self contained power in the set piece. I don't know what frequency they will need to use and how they can guard against something else interfering with the 'safety' signal.


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## VCTMike (Aug 28, 2011)

Just looked over the brochure....

horizontal accuracy +/- 4"
vertical accuracy +/- 1'
directional accuracy +/- 5 degrees
Update rate 20 Hz

Operates at 6.1 - 6.6 GHz

The user manual for the autonomous vehicle controller indicates it presently communicates to the vehicle over wireless ethernet (they use a Netgear wireless router). Potentially some problems depending on the theatre's use of wireless DMX and other network protocols.

Technology looks promising....


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## len (Aug 28, 2011)

JChenault said:


> You know. The linked to article really makes me angry and frustrated. No where does it say what a 'tracking system' Is or how one would use it. Lots of attempted hype about how great it is without ever explaining why it is great. The vendor got my attention, and then wasted my time and his by not communicating effectively.
> 
> Sorry - just had to vent


 
+1.

I thought they were talking about tracking equipment if it were stolen. It took me a long while to figure how they were using it.


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## metti (Aug 29, 2011)

VCTMike said:


> Just looked over the brochure....
> 
> horizontal accuracy +/- 4"
> vertical accuracy +/- 1'
> ...



A foot or even 4 inches is a pretty big margin of error. Especially as projection mapping onto scenery becomes more prevalent, anything being that far off could be a pretty big issue or with moving scenery, two pieces could colide if one is a foot farther DS than is should be and one is a foot farther US than is should be. Unless they can get the accuracy to under an inch, I'm having trouble seeing this as a particularly viable technology for stage use.


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## dvsDave (Aug 29, 2011)

The horizontal accuracy is +/- 4", the vertical accuracy is +/- 1'. That would make potential US/DS collisions only possible if the two set pieces have less than 8" between them when perfectly placed.


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## metti (Aug 30, 2011)

dvsDave said:


> The horizontal accuracy is +/- 4", the vertical accuracy is +/- 1'. That would make potential US/DS collisions only possible if the two set pieces have less than 8" between them when perfectly placed.


 
Good catch. I misinterpreted the numbers but you are clearly right. That said, I would still be concerned that +/-4" could potentially present problems with scenic automation. A decent set of stage hands never misses their spikes by 4 inches and I know that with projection and even carefully shuttered lighting, that could easily be enough distance to make things look pretty bad.


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## What Rigger? (Sep 1, 2011)

I think this is how Skynet gets started. Time to reference Terminator 2 for further info/history/predicitons.


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## shatbox (Sep 1, 2011)

Cast's Black Box has the one-up for now since it interprets the production's data and provides feedback. 

I think autonomy is a necessity. Like VCTMike said Wifi or GPS won't work. The scenery or whatever needs to sense where it is, not be told. There are a lot of companies working on autonomous technology, so we will see something soon. 

sBox


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 16, 2011)

metti said:


> Good catch. I misinterpreted the numbers but you are clearly right. That said, I would still be concerned that +/-4" could potentially present problems with scenic automation. A decent set of stage hands never misses their spikes by 4 inches and I know that with projection and even carefully shuttered lighting, that could easily be enough distance to make things look pretty bad.



This is true that for certain aplications, this technology is not where we want it yet. However, as with many other areas of theater, we do not rely on one type of technology to make the magic. Currently, there are several productions that have props that move about the stage using remote control devices and rely on line of site of the operator. With an autonomous system like this, the boat in Phantom of the Opera could easily track about the stage with set limits to insure that it was a safe distance from the edge of the stage as well as the set. Many of the looks are in a wash with follow spots, so that wouldn't cause any problems. The set pieces where definitive shutter cuts or projection mapping are required would continue with other tracking technologies.


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## quesauce (Sep 18, 2011)

The system mentioned is an interesting bit of kit. The great thing about it is that it is 3D. However, as some of you point out, it probably is a bit too imprecise to actually guide machinery for the stage at this point. With some time, I'm sure they can increase the accuracy. At that point, it will be worth a look.

Regarding wireless communication to control machiinery, at this point it is a known quantity. Industry has been using it for several years and there are in fact safe wireless protocols. We (Stage Technologies) have been using it for quite some time as well for wireless winches and wireless trucks just like you guys have been discussing. It does mean some thought must be given to managing wireless channels (it operates in the 5Ghz spectrum), but unless there is something REALLY poorly built that throws out a lot of interference, it works very well.

You can have a look at how Stage Tech is doing it now on Youtube.. We use a sensor designed for industrial machinery known as Automated Guided Vehicles, or AGVs. It is a rotary laser that scans for reflectors that are in known positions and calculates X, Y, and theta from what it sees. In the video, the sensor is housed in the slot on the side of the truck. It is a very accurate 2D system; however, the big drawback is it requires a line of site to at least 3 reflectors which can easily be blocked. To get around this, we put in many reflectors (6" diameter cylinders with a special reflective pattern on them). Usually, this requires a "discussion" with the scenic designer. Also, we allow operating without reference to an absolute position (ded reckoning) for a certain amount of time.

There is a lot of merit in having stage hands push things to spike marks. It is simple and (hopefully reliable). I will say though that it is REALLY cool to see scenery shift around seamlessly as if by magic. Sometimes you may need to move a wagon that is too large to be manually moved safely or accurately. It also may be more cost-effective in the long-term to eliminate the labor cost. Or, perhaps, someone in charge just wants to have the technological spectacle. 

Just like any technology, it is always a worthwhile discussion to have whether or not the benefits outweigh the costs. Fortunately, very soon you will be able to judge for yourself! Trucks just like these are coming soon to a city near you. ;-)


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