# Wood substitute for low budget paneling



## Cineruss (Sep 15, 2019)

I have a theater set that is going to require 1 x 4 lumber placed side by side length wise edge to edge with about an inch space between the edges giving a look of panel grid of vertical boards on a flat. This is going to require around 30 boards that make the cost prohibitive. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to recreate this without using wood that would keep the expense down?


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## Amiers (Sep 15, 2019)

Scenic only you can use foam and then paint it to look like wood

Could go super cheap again only if this is a scenic piece and wrap and glue cardboard around a stick of 1x4 30 times then do what you need to do. 

Projections is always a good goto granted you would need all those piece to make it happen.


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## microstar (Sep 15, 2019)

Cineruss said:


> I have a theater set that is going to require 1 x 4 lumber placed side by side length wise edge to edge with about an inch space between the edges giving a look of panel grid of vertical boards on a flat. This is going to require around 30 boards that make the cost prohibitive. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to recreate this without using wood that would keep the expense down?



The expense is why people paint things instead of using real materials. Knotty pine painted on luan-covered flats:


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 15, 2019)

When the cost of labor for scene painting exceeds the cost of real materials, it may make sense to use real.


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## Colin (Sep 15, 2019)

Using rips of a sheet material instead ought to cut your cost in half-ish if it can be made aesthetically acceptable. What's the finish treatment?


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## DrewE (Sep 15, 2019)

Colin said:


> Using rips of a sheet material instead ought to cut your cost in half-ish if it can be made aesthetically acceptable. What's the finish treatment?



I was wondering about that as well...

Though truth be told I would probably just rip 2x4 studs in half to get a bunch of approximately 1x4 nominal planks. Fifteen 8' 2x4's would run a little less than $50 around here. A bandsaw would be ideal for the ripping; most 10" table saws would be (barely) capable of doing it in one pass as well.


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## Cineruss (Sep 15, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Scenic only you can use foam and then paint it to look like wood
> 
> Could go super cheap again only if this is a scenic piece and wrap and glue cardboard around a stick of 1x4 30 times then do what you need to do.
> 
> Projections is always a good goto granted you would need all those piece to make it happen.


FOAM..Thats good..totally forgot about foam..thanks


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## RonHebbard (Sep 16, 2019)

Cineruss said:


> I have a theater set that is going to require 1 x 4 lumber placed side by side length wise edge to edge with about an inch space between the edges giving a look of panel grid of vertical boards on a flat. This is going to require around 30 boards that make the cost prohibitive. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to recreate this without using wood that would keep the expense down?


*@Cineruss * I'm a decrepit old, long retired, IA and IBEW geezer who's spent his entire working life in sound land lighting. 
THUS I'm most assuredly *NOT* anyone to listen to; that said, since I own an excellent Milwaukee router with 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch collets and a selection of tired old mortising and V-groove veining bits, if I was volunteering my time for an amateur production, I might be tempted to purchase a 4 x 8 sheet of something cheap 'n cheerful, clamp down an 8' straight edge and route a series of 1/8" deep grooves, neat and parallel across the panel then cut 'er up to suit. 
There you have it, my devalued two Canadian cents from up here North of Donald's walls. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

microstar said:


> The expense is why people paint things instead of using real materials. Knotty pine painted on luan-covered flats:
> View attachment 18475


So true but I do want to stay away from painting patterns if I can. I could probably do it but this theater needs something more realistic than what they have had in the past.


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Cineruss * I'm a decrepit old, long retired, IA and IBEW geezer who's spent his entire working life in sound land lighting.
> THUS I'm most assuredly *NOT* anyone to listen to; that said, since I own an excellent Milwaukee router with 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch collets and a selection of tired old mortising and V-groove veining bits, if I was volunteering my time for an amateur production, I might be tempted to purchase a 4 x 8 sheet of something cheap 'n cheerful, clamp down an 8' straight edge and route a series of 1/8" deep grooves, neat and parallel across the panel then cut 'er up to suit.
> There you have it, my devalued two Canadian cents from up here North of Donald's walls.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


Another good idea. I will have to take a good look at these. The set has 3 hollywood flats that are 12' x 14' so I knew using wood planks would send the budget sky high.


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## RonHebbard (Sep 16, 2019)

Cineruss said:


> Another good idea. I will have to take a good look at these. The set has 3 hollywood flats that are 12' x 14' so I knew using wood planks would send the budget sky high.


 @Cineruss Three flats, each 12' by 14' for a total of 42 lineal feet of 12' tall flats OR 36 lineal feet of 14' tall flats. Even this retired sound and lighting geezer's appreciating the magnitude of facing you're hoping to make convincing from the POV of your front row of patrons. 
All the best with your project; why am I suspecting you've been voluntold by your significant other*? * 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> @Cineruss Three flats, each 12' by 14' for a total of 42 lineal feet of 12' tall flats OR 36 lineal feet of 14' tall flats. Even this retired sound and lighting geezer's appreciating the magnitude of facing you're hoping to make convincing from the POV of your front row of patrons.
> All the best with your project; why am I suspecting you've been voluntold by your significant other*? *
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


OMG you must be psychic. I am a lighting and scenic designer but yes, my significant other got me into this as a volunteer


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## JohnD (Sep 16, 2019)

You might consider painting if using a graining tool. Also look at faux wood finishes at YouTube.


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

JohnD said:


> You might consider painting if using a graining tool. Also look at faux wood finishes at YouTube.


That could work but i also need the depth provided from the spaces between the wood.


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## Van (Sep 16, 2019)

If this is purely scenic for a wall treatment, then by all means use 1/2 or 3/4" Extruded Polyethylene foam < Blue or Pink Foam>. If it needs to look grained or old, save yourself some painting time and lightly run a wire brush <handheld not powered> down the length of the strip. Brush it with whatever your dark color is going to be then top coat with your light color. I'f it's a worn look, go heavy with a couple different types of wire brush or use a sander to profile the edges and faces.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 16, 2019)

Ignore as most do that foam as is suggested is prohibited by most fire codes.


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

Van said:


> If this is purely scenic for a wall treatment, then by all means use 1/2 or 3/4" Extruded Polyethylene foam < Blue or Pink Foam>. If it needs to look grained or old, save yourself some painting time and lightly run a wire brush <handheld not powered> down the length of the strip. Brush it with whatever your dark color is going to be then top coat with your light color. I'f it's a worn look, go heavy with a couple different types of wire brush or use a sander to profile the edges and faces.


Yes, I have been looking at this option. This will be placed on hollywood flats 10' x 12' but will have to come off after the play without a mess. I am looking to have them appear as a wood texture but painted light gray for scenic projection to appear on the surface of the wood. I am seeing 1x4's is just too cost prohibitive. What type of foam do you use in this case?


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## RonHebbard (Sep 16, 2019)

Cineruss said:


> Yes, I have been looking at this option. This will be placed on hollywood flats 10' x 12' but will have to come off after the play without a mess. I am looking to have them appear as a wood texture but painted light gray for scenic projection to appear on the surface of the wood. I am seeing 1x4's is just too cost prohibitive. What type of foam do you use in this case?


 *@Cineruss* Back in post 12, the flats were 12' x 14''; NOW the flats are smaller, 10' x 12' ? Did they get wet and shrink?? ( or have you been voluntold new info'???)
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Cineruss (Sep 16, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Cineruss* Back in post 12, the flats were 12' x 14''; NOW the flats are smaller, 10' x 12' ? Did they get wet and shrink?? ( or have you been voluntold new info'???)
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


Sorry, I was on my phone when I typed the latter and didnt have the measurements in front of me. They are 12' x 14'


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## Van (Sep 17, 2019)

Cineruss said:


> Yes, I have been looking at this option. This will be placed on Hollywood flats 10' x 12' but will have to come off after the play without a mess. I am looking to have them appear as a wood texture but painted light gray for scenic projection to appear on the surface of the wood. I am seeing 1x4's is just too cost prohibitive. What type of foam do you use in this case?


Hmm, Yeah, I'd still use Blue foam, or Pink Foam. I would NOT use styro-foam; I only use that in very specific scenic circumstances. If recycle-ability of the flats is tantamount then use strips of Double stick Carpet tape <several 2-3" long> along the length of each strip of foam. If you are not roughing up the surface of the foam then you may want to brush on a coat of 4# Shellac to act as a primer for whatever paint you coat the foam in. It will keep the latex paint from peeling. You could use VSSSD but that would probably leave too much texture and would ramp the costs up. 

Do not buy the foil backed foam that they sell at a lot of home stores. Get the stuff that is raw foam on both sides. You can usually find it at home stores, sometimes Insulation suppliers will have a better price and larger sizes; like 10 or 12' long sheets. When Ripping foam always be careful to make sure your saw and run-off tables are clear and clean. If you get cock-eyed at all the blade will grab the foam and sling it right back at you. When that happens it can burn the heck out of your fingers and it hurts like hell when you get hit. Only have 1/8" of blade above the surface of the foam, you want to use as little of the blade as possible.


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## JChenault (Sep 17, 2019)

I’m confused by what look the OP is going for. If he wants a sense of old, distressed wood then the foam solution works, but he was originally talking about using regular boards which would not be distresses.

If the desired look is undistressed lumber, I would consider the idea of using some sheet goods (1/8 inch Luan) . If depth is needed, I would simply attach a 1x1 along the edge to show depth ( or some other material)


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## Catherder (Sep 17, 2019)

Van said:


> Do not buy the foil backed foam that they sell at a lot of home stores. Get the stuff that is raw foam on both sides.



Can I ask why? I was looking at that for a show I'm planning for - I thought the foil backing would make a good bounce surface to uplight the backdrop.


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## Van (Sep 17, 2019)

Catherder said:


> Can I ask why? I was looking at that for a show I'm planning for - I thought the foil backing would make a good bounce surface to uplight the backdrop.


For use as a Scenic piece the foil doesn't stick well to anything, dbl. stick, contact adhesive etc. at when it does stick it often, not always, tends to peel away from the foam. 
I think it would be a great bounce with really cool texture!


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## Catherder (Sep 17, 2019)

Van said:


> For use as a Scenic piece the foil doesn't stick well to anything, dbl. stick, contact adhesive etc. at when it does stick it often, not always, tends to peel away from the foam.
> I think it would be a great bounce with really cool texture!



Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, I was going to use them for my village silhouette I posted in a different thread a while back - freestanding in front of a drop. Nice to know I'm not totally boned


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## Cineruss (Sep 17, 2019)

Van said:


> Hmm, Yeah, I'd still use Blue foam, or Pink Foam. I would NOT use styro-foam; I only use that in very specific scenic circumstances. If recycle-ability of the flats is tantamount then use strips of Double stick Carpet tape <several 2-3" long> along the length of each strip of foam. If you are not roughing up the surface of the foam then you may want to brush on a coat of 4# Shellac to act as a primer for whatever paint you coat the foam in. It will keep the latex paint from peeling. You could use VSSSD but that would probably leave too much texture and would ramp the costs up.
> 
> Do not buy the foil backed foam that they sell at a lot of home stores. Get the stuff that is raw foam on both sides. You can usually find it at home stores, sometimes Insulation suppliers will have a better price and larger sizes; like 10 or 12' long sheets. When Ripping foam always be careful to make sure your saw and run-off tables are clear and clean. If you get cock-eyed at all the blade will grab the foam and sling it right back at you. When that happens it can burn the heck out of your fingers and it hurts like hell when you get hit. Only have 1/8" of blade above the surface of the foam, you want to use as little of the blade as possible.


Thanks I will check on this and test it out.


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## gafftaper (Sep 18, 2019)

@Cineruss is there a reason you couldn't use shorter pieces of wood? I'm thinking you ought to be able to scrounge up a stack of old wood pallets for free and use the slats. They would definitely have character and texture!


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## Lasermike (Sep 18, 2019)

I’ve 2 thoughts. 

Although it looks like you have decided against ripping 2x4 lumber, I thought I’d mention that dimensional lumber can be very reactionary and may pinch closed on the blade or twist in a way that it rises above the blade which can lead to kickback. On a shorter piece it might not be a problem but a full length stud would be scary. As you mentioned, the bandsaw is a better choice. 

On the foam, all we had available was the foil faced type. Turns out it peels off fairly easily. It might come off in a couple or 3 pieces but it does come off. IIRC, ours also had a clear film on the other side we peeled off as well since we needed them to be reversible. 

Michael


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## Cineruss (Sep 18, 2019)

gafftaper said:


> @Cineruss is there a reason you couldn't use shorter pieces of wood? I'm thinking you ought to be able to scrounge up a stack of old wood pallets for free and use the slats. They would definitely have character and texture!


I thought about that but for the amount needed I dont think there is enough and it needs to look clean.


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## Cineruss (Sep 18, 2019)

Lasermike said:


> I’ve 2 thoughts.
> 
> Although it looks like you have decided against ripping 2x4 lumber, I thought I’d mention that dimensional lumber can be very reactionary and may pinch closed on the blade or twist in a way that it rises above the blade which can lead to kickback. On a shorter piece it might not be a problem but a full length stud would be scary. As you mentioned, the bandsaw is a better choice.
> 
> ...


We dont have the tools for ripping lumber in that fashion. It appears the foam would be the best way to go at this moment.


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## DrewE (Sep 18, 2019)

Lasermike said:


> I’ve 2 thoughts.
> 
> Although it looks like you have decided against ripping 2x4 lumber, I thought I’d mention that dimensional lumber can be very reactionary and may pinch closed on the blade or twist in a way that it rises above the blade which can lead to kickback. On a shorter piece it might not be a problem but a full length stud would be scary. As you mentioned, the bandsaw is a better choice.
> 
> ….



That's indeed sometimes the case, and it is a very good caution to heed. A riving knife (which most if not all new table saws come equipped with, usually as part of the guard support system) is a big help in preventing that sort of trouble. Practicing proper, safe technique with any power tool is always essential, and for ripping stuff on a table saw that includes avoiding standing in line with where the wood could kick back. Even a light, little bit of wood that kicks back raises one's heart rate awfully quickly!


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## RonHebbard (Sep 18, 2019)

DrewE said:


> That's indeed sometimes the case, and it is a very good caution to heed. A riving knife (which most if not all new table saws come equipped with, usually as part of the guard support system) is a big help in preventing that sort of trouble. Practicing proper, safe technique with any power tool is always essential, and for ripping stuff on a table saw that includes avoiding standing in line with where the wood could kick back. Even a light, little bit of wood that kicks back raises one's heart rate awfully quickly!


 * @DrewE* and *@Cineruss * If you think a table saw can kick back, you don't want to be in the line of fire when some bozo inserts a piece of lumber less than 12" long it a decent sized, floor mounted, thickness planer clearly labelled NOT to be used for planing any stock shorter than 12". 

This was back in my high school daze. Our carpentry shop was on the second floor over our auto shop. Our carpentry shop was approximately 100' x 60'. Our high school was erected in the early 1900's with the two shop wings ( Carps over Auto on the west side and Arts and Painting over LX and Machining on the east side, added in the 50's) [our high school was two city blocks wide with one street interrupted by our school and continuing on the the other side] 

The entry door to the carps shop was centred on the 60' width with a clear center aisle down the center and a large, butch, floor mounted thickness planer located approximately 80' in from the door, the grades 9 and 10 equipment and benches on the south side and the grades 11 and 12 equipment and benches on the north side. The entrance door from the corridor was close to 4' wide by close to 7' tall and constructed of heavy solid wood, glued and laminated, in the ways of the 40's / 50's with a thick laminated glass window including a steel screen between layers, about 4' AFF and continuing up to well over 6'. Basically, this was a solidly built door hung on four stout hinges and secured by multiple latches. 

The thickness planer was definitely the real deal from the 1950's with heavy cast input / output tables and accepted lumber up to at least 3' wide. (I planed a 30" wide table-top while I was a student in grade 12.) 
When the aforementioned 'bozo' attempted to plane a piece of 1 x 3 or 1 x 4 pine less than 12" long, the noise was horrific and it was a good thing all students and teachers were safely within their shops on either side of the centre aisle. 
What was left of the pine flew approximately 60' and embedded itself in the ~2" door having only descended approximately 3" from the height of the thickness planer's exit table. At least it hit the door below window height. The senior shop teacher called the office and sprung a student from the photography classes who arrived with cameras in tow and took multiple photos of the thickness planer, the inside of the shop door with the short length of chewed wood still in place post impaling the thick door AND the outside of the door where there was an obvious bulge. The chewed piece of wood was removed to permit safe egress then further photographed before being signed by the "Bozo" and screwed to the wall inside the carp shop directly above the door. 
Yep! You most assuredly don't want to be in the line of fire when a butch, heavy, cast-iron, floor mounted thickness planer burps and expectorates a chewed chunk of wood. Our school board invited every shop teacher in the city to come and inspect the door, the weapon and the projectile first hand, up close and personal. 
Things you learned in high school. Who'da thunk! *@Van* *@Amiers @egilson1* & *@What Rigger?* You'll probably appreciate this as well. Maybe even *@GreyWyvern* too.
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 18, 2019)

XPS and EPS - blue or pink styrofoam or white head board - are quite flammable and give off noxious gasses when they burn. The foil faced stuff is usually polyiso and is not flammable. That's part of reason it's used for roofs. Just in case you care about fire hazards and/or complying with fire codes.


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## microstar (Sep 18, 2019)

gafftaper said:


> @Cineruss is there a reason you couldn't use shorter pieces of wood? I'm thinking you ought to be able to scrounge up a stack of old wood pallets for free and use the slats. They would definitely have character and texture!


For the cabin in "Dixie Swim Club" I had the bright idea of "let's just pick up some free wood pallets, take them apart and use it for wall planks for the interior". I had the whole crew mad at me by the end of the day. We were in a rented space and had to work outside. The pallets were assembled with rink shank nails, a lot of them. A WHOLE lot of work...... but it looked great!
Your pallets may vary, but don't count on it.


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## Van (Sep 19, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> XPS and EPS - blue or pink styrofoam or white head board - are quite flammable and give off noxious gasses when they burn. The foil faced stuff is usually polyiso and is not flammable. That's part of reason it's used for roofs. Just in case you care about fire hazards and/or complying with fire codes.


Really?
I always use a flame retardant additive in Scenic paints but the Owens-Corning spec sheet lists XPS Pink foam as tested to ASTM E 84 by UL . I did find a rather hilarious video of a guy performing his own flame test. He melts a bunch of Pink foam with a torch then declares it flammable even when it self extinguishes...


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## Catherder (Sep 19, 2019)

Van said:


> I always use a flame retardant additive in Scenic paints



What product do you use? I've been looking for something and there is a LOT out there ...


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## Van (Sep 19, 2019)

Catherder said:


> What product do you use? I've been looking for something and there is a LOT out there ...


 I prefer FR-1 you can actually find it at retail paint stores... Now I have to remember which one here in the PDX area... but we used to buy it over the counter. you can also get it at Rosebrand. There is an inset on this RB page for Rosco's PA paint additive. It is also very good but usually a bit more expensive. 

https://www.rosebrand.com/shop/product.aspx?id=307


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## Catherder (Sep 19, 2019)

Van said:


> I prefer FR-1 you can actually find it at retail paint stores... Now I have to remember which one here in the PDX area... but we used to buy it over the counter. you can also get it at Rosebrand. There is an inset on this RB page for Rosco's PA paint additive. It is also very good but usually a bit more expensive.
> 
> https://www.rosebrand.com/shop/product.aspx?id=307



Thanks - I bet the guys at Powell Paint will know, if they don't have it themselves. 

Appreciate it.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 19, 2019)

I'll post the code requirements. Having been tested and received a score does not assure it can be used on stage. You can measure a door but that doesn't mean it fits - only that you know the size.


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## teqniqal (Sep 26, 2019)

Like Bill said:


You will find similar warning on most foam sheeting products. These products are engineered to be enclosed inside a fire barrier, not out exposed to the stage and audience.


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## Malabaristo (Sep 27, 2019)

teqniqal said:


> You will find similar warning on most foam sheeting products. These products are engineered to be enclosed inside a fire barrier, not out exposed to the stage and audience.



What about when completely covered by Rosco FoamCoat or equivalent product? I know the code reference Bill mentioned basically just says, "Don't use foam..." without any exceptions, but it seems like there are a number of ways it could be done with a reasonable level of safety.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 27, 2019)

Mud and muslin usually does it. I don't think just foam coat. But when does it make sense to just use 1 x 4s? I'll try to find more but travelling at the moment.


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## teqniqal (Sep 27, 2019)

Malabaristo said:


> What about when completely covered by Rosco FoamCoat or equivalent product? I know the code reference Bill mentioned basically just says, "Don't use foam..." without any exceptions, but it seems like there are a number of ways it could be done with a reasonable level of safety.



I rarely see 'completely covered'. It's usually just the audience -facing part of a prop or scenery. People don't care abut painting the backside of stuff because they are generally not thinking about Fire Safety, just aesthetics.

I'll leave 'reasonable level of safety' up to the AHJ and a jury.

As to the effectiveness of the Rosco FoamCoat, I'd contact Rosco and see what they say 'in writing'.


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## Colin (Sep 27, 2019)

Rosco will provide an E84 certificate for FoamCoat and FlexCoat. That's testing performed with a 5/8 gypsum board substrate, not foam. It's also a 1/8" +- 1/32" troweled on coating. Rosco's language in the product descriptions only states that the product itself is flame retardant. Nevertheless, applied at the tested thickness or greater it satisfies me and also my fire marshal (as we look up at the sprinklers and smoke vents). As teqniqal points out, it's hard to reliably achieve or enforce a minimum thickness. And most critically, Rosco doesn't document a test of the common application over EPS foam. What would that even look like? We introduce too many variables from instance to instance the way we use the products - not like the simplicity of code framing, insulation, drywall.

I've field tested some samples with FoamCoat that did well and lots that didn't. I'm pleased that all the ones prepared by me went well, but still troubling how careful one has to be in application. Flame seems to find any tiny weakness in the coating and then the foam melts, enlarging the breach until it can get a flame going. It's a delicate flame at first - pretty easy to blow out or self-smother (what seems to have happened in the youtube clip above) but if it gets going, which will happen on a vertical surface more than horizontal (youtube clip, I think?), then it's lots of flame and gross dark smoke really fast. A 4x8 flat with a little 3/4" thick trim probably just trips a sensor and fizzles without spreading a fire. A whole Les Mis bridge, etc... different - the size of the "fuel package" can matter, including AHJ-wise. Less than 1 pound in close proximity and they aren't concerned with FR treatment in my locale.

This issue is a big thing in "real" building too. There are games being played with E84 and 814 tests on nonflammable substrates being used to justify very different applications - the orange "fireblock" marketed spray foams... Builders and manufacturers are both doing it. Energy efficiency is nice but some inspectors are deciding there's still a place for mineral wool if you don't want things to burn down.


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## JonCarter (Sep 27, 2019)

How far away from this 'paneling' is your audience? If more than about 30', just have your painter paint it on ordinary flats. Any scene painter worth his/her salt should be able to give you what you need.


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## Malabaristo (Sep 28, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Mud and muslin usually does it. I don't think just foam coat. But when does it make sense to just use 1 x 4s? I'll try to find more but travelling at the moment.



Yup, I was thinking more of the normal use for foam in complex, textured surfaces. It's pretty clearly not the best choice for this specific application: by the time you add an appropriate coating, you probably would lose the clean lines you were going for, and add a whole lot of labor and other expense.


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## Van (Sep 30, 2019)

Malabaristo said:


> What about when completely covered by Rosco FoamCoat or equivalent product? I know the code reference Bill mentioned basically just says, "Don't use foam..." without any exceptions, but it seems like there are a number of ways it could be done with a reasonable level of safety.


What 'Code reference' is that?


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## Malabaristo (Sep 30, 2019)

I was going off of memory, so there's a little more nuance to it: NFPA 101 13.4.6.11.2 says that the foam itself must meet a certain fuel load requirement (<100kW) based on NFPA 289 testing. So, technically you could be allowed a certain quantity of foam if you can get that information*, but what stuck in my head as "don't use it at all" is that there's no allowance for NFPA 701 testing the way there is for other combustible materials. To me that says the rule doesn't consider surface treatment as a mitigating factor. 


*I took a quick look at Owens Corning Foamular specs as an example and they do not list NFPA 289 info in their UL reports. Maybe others do or could provide it on request...


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## Colin (Sep 30, 2019)

If your jurisdiction uses the IBC then turn to chapter 26. Read the full text, but my non-guaranteed summary is that foam needs to be separated from an interior space by a thermal barrier like 1/2" or thicker drywall, or heavy timber, or 1"+ masonry/concrete. If the interior space is accessible but not used for living or storage (attic/crawlspace, but probably not ever scenic applications) then the lesser requirements of an ignition barrier apply. There are exceptions which can apply in some cases, such as for interior trim made from foam, but the requirements of the exceptions are pretty restrictive - I recall 1/2" max thickness, 8" max width, not more than 10% total surface area of the wall covered.

There's more - worth reading yourselves.

Edit: Also, in NFPA 1 20.1.2.2 you'll find language about allowable fuel packages for foam in assembly occupancies, which leads you to NFPA 289 testing, which leads you to research whether foam insulation makers have done that test. I haven't ever found evidence that they have - why would they when their products are intended to be behind thermal barriers, not used as decoration... But also, 20.1.2.2 allows AHJ to make a ruling instead.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 30, 2019)

What I found is the foam that is tested are specific objects - like a wig block or specific decorative item -not "raw" material. Sorry I haven't pasted code yet - will do. Need a few minutes at my desk.....


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 2, 2019)

Here is Life Safety Code on foam scenery:



The International Fire Code, which is the International Building Codes fire regs after substantial completion, says:

807.5.1.1 Foam plastics. Exposed foam plastic materials and unprotected materials containing foam plastic used for decorative purposes or stage scenery or exhibit
booths shall have a maximum heat release rate of 100 kW when tested in accordance with UL 1975, or when tested in accordance with NFPA 289 using the 20 kW ignition source.

Exceptions:
1. Individual foam plastic items or items containing foam plastic where the foam plastic does not exceed 1 pound (0.45 kg) in weight.
2. Cellular or foam plastic shall be allowed for trim in accordance with Section 804.2.

As I noted above, NFPA 289 is to test an object, like a chair or mannequin, not a building material to be used in any quantity you imagine. My opinion is it's very hard to use foam - XPS like the pink or blue stuff - in scenery.


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## garyvp (Oct 28, 2019)

JohnD said:


> You might consider painting if using a graining tool. Also look at faux wood finishes at YouTube.


I agree - youtube all the way. I have done several projects with graining techniques and its fast and looks real. I stopped buying paneling. And, you can add fire retardant to the paint. I did a small set this summer where they would not allow foam set pieces without a FDNY certificate, but had no problem with a painted wall that had been treated.


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