# Never underestimate creativity in spite of safety



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)




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## n1ist (Dec 14, 2016)

Breakers will trip even if the handle is blocked. This is just a homebrewed version of a breaker lock, used when you don't want anyone accidentally turning it off (like for a fire alarm, computer, fridge). As long as the screw isn't long enough to cause poke anything.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

I thought same but licensed electrician just said not so. So I'm not sure if that is true for all or some breakers. May have to go test this..

OK - you're right as I thought first.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 14, 2016)

n1ist said:


> Breakers will trip even if the handle is blocked. This is just a homebrewed version of a breaker lock, used when you don't want anyone accidentally turning it off (like for a fire alarm, computer, fridge). As long as the screw isn't long enough to cause poke anything.


When you realize those are the even numbered breakers runniing down the right hand side of the panel, you realize the self-tapper's directly over the main buses running down the center of the panel. How long is it going to be before someone tightens the self-tapper just a little too far in or replaces it with a newer, longer, screw? This is reminding me of a loose screw I once regretted tightening while working on my knees under a DJ's counter in the booth of a strip bar in my long distant past. I'll leave that tale / tail to bore you another day.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Amiers (Dec 15, 2016)

When I was relighting a factory they had old breakers that could be held down and still operate. First I had seen that and was surprised. 

Same at the current place I am at. An AC unit had an issue and throwing the breaker on it would pop but if you held it, well it did scary things. Yet still feed power and operate. 

So yes I would say that some breakers will still function, dangerous but still keeps juice flowing.


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## porkchop (Dec 15, 2016)

I've had a breaker pop while attempting to hold it closed and I've seen it continue to allow current flow (although those wherr much older breakers). Either way poor decisions where made and someone's drill privileges should be taken away until we can learn about electrical safety.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2016)

The owner who installed the wire reports without any doubt that the breaker tripped regularly prior to the "fix" and has not tripped since. Residential, 2nd floor lighting, 20-25 years old.

Upon further reflection I believe this sort of fix may prevent some circuit breakers from opening, even though modern designs and regulations are to the contrary. 

Also, I don't think anyone should ever do this.


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

There's a possibility that the breaker is old and fidgity, and prone to trip early when not restrained. Whether it would trip properly otherwise is probably a subject for test. The licensed electrics on another board I've recently seen this on concur that any current generation breaker in good repair should trip anyway, as evidenced by the fact that there are -- from breaker manufacturers -- several types of both lock-out and lock-on adapters.

This thread:

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=155210

says that UL489 (and NEC 240.80) has required that all breakers trip-free even with a restrained handle since the 60s...

So the major danger here is probably either an old breaker, or, as suggested above me, an overlong screw.

This is, BTW, an *excellent* reason for a cheap thermal camera in tool bag of all electrics: gonna work on a panel? Check temps before and after removing cover.

And Bill: I recommend that you make sure that nothing life-critical (fire pumps, alarm panels, etc) is ever powered from the same panel as anything users might be expected to turn off with a breaker (like work lights, etc), as the thread also suggests...


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## GreyWyvern (Dec 15, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> The owner who installed the wire reports without any doubt that the breaker tripped regularly prior to the "fix" and has not tripped since. Residential, 2nd floor lighting, 20-25 years old.
> 
> Upon further reflection I believe this sort of fix may prevent some circuit breakers from opening, even though modern designs and regulations are to the contrary.
> 
> Also, I don't think anyone should ever do this.


Did you actually personally see that and take the picture?


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

Pic is making the rounds, Dave; I saw it two different places this week on FB too.


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## GreyWyvern (Dec 15, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Pic is making the rounds, Dave; I saw it two different places this week on FB too.


Ah. I actually just saw it in my twitter feed.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2016)

GreyWyvern said:


> Did you actually personally see that and take the picture?


I did not take it but know the person who did and have talked to them. They were working in the house and recommended to the owner they get a qualified electrician in to look at and correct the problem.


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## dvsDave (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> This is, BTW, an *excellent* reason for a cheap thermal camera in tool bag of all electrics: gonna work on a panel? Check temps before and after removing cover.



Finally a reason for me to get the FLIR one, the addon Thermal camera for iPhones and Androids. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VILVV62/?tag=controlbooth-20


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

dvsDave said:


> Finally a reason for me to get the FLIR one, the addon Thermal camera for iPhones and Androids. https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-The...th-20&linkId=22e8c5f03d63d64c40dd4c1d54529235


Yeah, but couldn't they have made the damn thing *bluetooth*, so you could hold it somewhere useful and still be able to see the viewfinder?


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## dvsDave (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Yeah, but couldn't they have made the damn thing *bluetooth*, so you could hold it somewhere useful and still be able to see the viewfinder?


Neither Bluetooth nor wifi have either the bandwidth or low enough latency for this application.


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

Not sure I can agree, revered leader. 

These cameras tend to be pretty low resolution, 256x256 in some cases (though the page for the FLIR one, perversely, refuses to tell me this one fundamental spec), and 5-10fps is *plenty* for aiming a camera... and indeed, you could run even lower resolution for aiming.

No, overall, I think the convenience of being able to put the camera on a selfie stick and stick it inside something without burning your arm off far outweighs the inconveniences it might engender, myself...


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## Van (Dec 16, 2016)

We should just stick with Fuses


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

I'm pretty sure the FLIRone hasn't enough shutter speed to stop a bullet in mid-trip.


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

La vache qui _Cuit_


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## RonHebbard (Dec 16, 2016)

EdSavoie said:


> La vache qui _Cuit_


And for the rest of us who are non bilingual please?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

The Brand name of that cheese is 
_ La vache qui rit_ 
(The laughing cow)
What I said was effectively:
The _Cooking_ cow


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 16, 2016)

The cow that cooks?

quesque se?

Sorry - posted before Ed's was here.


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

Cooking more so as frying...
Because of using it as a 16 amp fuse...

Ah, never mind


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## Van (Dec 17, 2016)

EdSavoie said:


> La vache qui _Cuit_


Over-cooked Cow?


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