# Is it economically safe to pursue a career in technical theatre?



## rosabelle334

My mom has been pestering me. She wants me to choose a path that will make me happy, but also pay the bills. She doesn't believe that technical theatre is the way to go. Is she right? Is backstage work really all that bad? 

I live in a very high class town, in connecticut actaully, and we do ahve some of the best schools in the country. Obviously, its the standard of everyone here to pursue a career high up, and even go to an ivy-league college. Is it possible, if not to be come a full-time stage worker, to possibly to work on a show as well as hold some other white-collar job like our town expects us to do?

What about New York? If I were ever to work there is it economical to commute, or find an apartment there?


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## soundman

If you are good at what you do you will never have to worry about finding work or making rent on time. People will be calling you. With the condition of the economy today it might be tough going for the first few years but after you make a name for yourself you can stop setting up 120K rigs at county fairs and moving on towards more lucrative gigs because the rich will always want to be entertained. 

at least thats what I tell myself


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## bobgaggle

there has been a post in the past about pay for backstage work...but why not have a backup? Buy some stock in a funeral planning service. People are always dying. stock can only go up...unless someone discovers the fountain of youth. But seriously. I'm just starting college so I don't have to worry about it that much yet, but I plan to invest in real estate once I graduate and get some money. Both my parents are investors and the money seems to be good (except for lack of benefits) Seems like a good plan to have in case you can't find work in those first couple years.


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## Van

I think it's very good to look forward, plan for the future, and make serious considerations before pesuing a career in technical theatre, or any of the "thechnical " proffessions. I have a friend from college that I recently ran into. He was the Master Carpenter for a broadway tour show, and was in town and looked me up. It was the first time I had seen him since college, I graduated in '89, he had been doing tours since then. I have a house, a wife, 2 kids, a mortgage, and no real money to speak of, He has all the money he can stand, he's been touring almost constantly since we all left college, he's got a storage building in the small town in Oklahoma where his folks live, where everything he owns has been stored for the last 20 years. He has a lot of great stories, could get a job in almost any theatre/tour/shop he wanted, and a girlfreind he sees a couple of times a year. What's the point of this story? Well it's kinda like the "production pyramid" " Good, Fast, Cheap, pick two."
You can be rich and happy, you can be poor and happy and fufilled, but it's hard to be rich and happy and fulfilled. 
That's my two cents worth.


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## derekleffew

To quote the words of one CB member:
"If you can find something other than theatre that you want to do, do that."

Otherwise,
"If you really want to hurt your parents, and you haven't the nerve to be a homosexual, the least you can do is go into the arts."--K. Vonnegut

I find myself more like Van's road carpenter friend, except that I own a house with a pool but had to give up legit theatre in Chicago and move to Lost Wages to attain it.


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## Footer

derekleffew said:


> "If you can find something other than theatre that you want to do, do that."



Truer words have never been spoken (and I can't remember if I have said that here, but its one of my things I say a lot).

I am currently knee deep in a job search, I am flying to both the east coast and west coat next week for interviews at two different theatres. Now, I probably sent out 40-50 resume's to get to this point. I have turned down two gigs in the last few weeks, and if offered a job at either location, I will be happy.

The money at one is livable, the cold offer from the other is not livable for me and my fiance to live on. If I get the offer, hopefully that will change. I personally don't want the road life, like Van I want to have my wife, my house, and who knows.... maybe kids. As I tell my friends who are out on the road with the stories, I like my things. You can make some mad money on the road, but its hard to get to that point. 

If you want a "traditional" life, where you go in a 7am and home by 5pm, this aint for you. Also, if you want to live in a certain area of the country, this aint for you. If you want the home life, you will end up going to where the work is. Unfortunitly, the work is usually in a large city center that is not a cheap place to live. 

Yes, you can make money, but you are not going to have the perfect american life. Jobs with benefits are hard to come by unless you are salaried or union, and if you are union work can dry up in some areas. 

You need to look at what you want your life to be, and is there anything else you would rather do. Its doable, there are plenty of us on this board that are doing it, but you do have to make some sacrifices.


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## derekleffew

Footer4321 said:


> ... I can't remember if I have said that here, but its one of my things I say a lot)...


You probably said it here, or I may have.


rosabelle334 said:


> ...and even go to an ivy-league college...


There must be a reason Harvard, Yale, and all other Ivy-league universities offer a major in theatre.


rosabelle334 said:


> ...Is it possible, if not to become a full-time stage worker, to possibly to work on a show as well as hold some other white-collar job like our town expects us to do?...


Every community theatre, and many professional theatres, are filled with people who do exactly that. The stereotype of the actor whose career is as a waiter exists because it's true. Now a technician has employable skills. Myself, I'm glad I had theatre management courses in college. As a fledgling Lighting Designer in Chicago, I supported myself, (and made contacts,) by working in box offices. Upon moving to Las Vegas, my real job for a year was working for a ticket re-seller.


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## TechSooth

rosabelle334 said:


> My mom has been pestering me. She wants me to choose a path that will make me happy, but also pay the bills. She doesn't believe that technical theatre is the way to go. Is she right? Is backstage work really all that bad?



"Ah, youth. It is the perquisite of the young." No, and No and No. There are two problems with a theatrical career:

1. Every job is received subjectively ie: "I like her work (or: personality, shoes, butt), lets hire her."

2. There will ALWAYS be some one who will do it for free. Because they love it. Just like us.

If you have NO financial requirements, you can try. My suggestion: summer stock. I learned more in 4 shows of doing than in 4 years of school. If you still love it after 12 weeks of a nonstop schedule with no budget and no sleep, it could be for you. If you want to have things (live indoors, eat), you will have to learn to stretch those $250 stipends until you have 6 months of expenses in the bank.

Sound frightening? Just remember, you'll be spending time (lots of it) with cool people creating amazing things with virtually nothing and planting memories in your community that will last for the lifetimes of those who share them. That is the reward. 

"If you realize that you have enough,
you are truly rich" 
-- Tao de Ching


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## Chris Chapman

I would say most definitly YES. But it depends on which avenue of tech you are looking at. Stagehand, no. Designer, yes. Stge Manager, Yes. Since you are on he East Coast, try to get into Yale School of Drama (Mom will love that) and you cn almost write your own ticket when you graduate. My professional experience is that for some reason YSD grads get a lot of good work. Might be the connections, I dunno. Lots of Regional and Professional Companies look at YSD grads with a very close eye.

Will you make millions? Probably not, but you will be comfortable and enjoy what you are doing. Which is better than working in Walmart or having a job that you going to everyday. I love my job because it is never the same. Well, some of the concert load is, but everything else keeps changing and each show is a different challenge.

-Chris Chapman
TD, Greenville Performing Arts Center
Greenville, MI


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## Chris Chapman

derekleffew said:


> T[/FONT]I find myself more like Van's road carpenter friend, except that I own a house with a pool but had to give up legit theatre in Chicago and move to Lost Wages to attain it.




Really Derek? When I was in Chicago I found work to be pretty steady. I rotated thru Goodman, Steppenwolf, Chicago Spotlight, Baliwick and some of the off Loop theatres, and never really had a problem. Did get burned out doing all that freelancing and not knowing what the next gig 2 months down the road would be though.  And that was before I was married with kids, too. So I guess there's a difference.

-Chris


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## sobenson

rosabelle334 said:


> What about New York? If I were ever to work there is it economical to commute, or find an apartment there?


To answer this part of the question. Yes you can commute. I knew a guy that did it from Orange, CT, just outside of Milford. I will say that if you are going to commute you will be spending a lot of time on train station benches. As you probably know that Metro North runs with limited service at night, which is when you will be getting off of work.
As for living in NYC, yes you can pull it off. I did it as a stage hand.


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## rosabelle334

sobenson said:


> To answer this part of the question. Yes you can commute. I knew a guy that did it from Orange, CT, just outside of Milford. I will say that if you are going to commute you will be spending a lot of time on train station benches. As you probably know that Metro North runs with limited service at night, which is when you will be getting off of work.
> As for living in NYC, yes you can pull it off. I did it as a stage hand.



*nods* I live 45- 60 minutes by car or train from NYC right now, I go there fairly often. I was hoping I could stay in this town or one nearby and commute because I adore where I live now.


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## Footer

Chris Chapman said:


> Since you are on he East Coast, try to get into Yale School of Drama (Mom will love that) and you cn almost write your own ticket when you graduate. My professional experience is that for some reason YSD grads get a lot of good work. Might be the connections, I dunno. Lots of Regional and Professional Companies look at YSD grads with a very close eye.



Yale only offers an MFA and Ph.D. as well as "certificates", so you won't be going there for another 5-10 years at least. It costs around 130-140k for tuition alone, and they rarely ever offer any type of financial aid (except for FASFA). 

That being said, if you can get in, it is the leading design school in the country. As long as Ming is there, it will stay the leading program. 

There is a stigma attached to "Yalies", but all of them tend to consistently work.


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## TechSooth

Footer4321 said:


> There is a stigma attached to "Yalies", but all of them tend to consistently work.



Only by Mellonites. But we won't get into that. Even if you can afford a year in the company of Ming, it would be worth it.


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## SerraAva

Van is defiantly correct in that if you want to make money doing this, you will not have a normal life. I have lost my social life completely do to work and now hang out with guys who are 10+ years older then I. While its not fun not having peers to hang out with or working all the time, the pay is great. I make way more then I should at my age, but do I work for it and make sacrifices. 

In high school, I looked into becoming a lawyer, or doing this. I choose this, because I enjoy doing it despite all the sacrifices and negatives that come with it. I have always being a behind the scenes person, the un-sung hero so to speak. I don't do it for the credit, I do it for me and the show. I don't expect thanks or anything like that doing my job, because it is just that, my job. All this and a wicked case of stage fright more or less made my path clear for me.

Also, like others have said, if you are good at what you do, you will be in demand. Don't let it go to your head however, because there is always someone better. 

Just some of my personal experiences. All my work is mainly corporate stuff and not theatre however. Tends to pay better then theatre, but it steals your soul. Theatre is my release/reclaim soul time.


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## Spikesgirl

We told all our actors in training to take tech classes because that way they could feed themselves while hanging out at the theater. The other option was food services. 

Can you make a living at tech? - yes, but as SerraAva pointed out, there are sacrifices and you will not work a 'normal' schedule as each show will have different demands. you might consider going into educational tech theater, where the hours can be more regular. My mother always told everyone that I was a teacher because she didn't understand what I did.

Is theater an economically sound career? Depends upon where you are. Here there are only a few theaters, so competition can be fierce at times. The larger the city, the more opportunities, but also more competitors. However, I don't think any career is guaranteed financially sound any more.


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## jwl868

I’m taking a different tack about your post. Others who work in the industry have posted about their work, and I can’t possibly contribute anymore to that. [My participation in technical theatre is part-time, as a volunteer, and very recent at that. It’s not my vocation.]


Economically-safe?

As a general concept, I doubt there is anything that is “economically-safe”. Decades ago, getting an engineering degree to work in the steel industry was “economically-safe”. At one time, going to a trade-school for aircraft mechanics and maintenance was “economically-safe”. Wasn’t the mortgage industry “economically-safe”? There was a time when assembly-line worker at a GM plant was “economically-safe”.

You state in your original post that [at your school] everyone pursues a career higher up. But things are not always as they appear. I suspect that there is stigma on one doesn’t pursue the “high” standards, and I suspect that one rarely hears about those who don’t. I also suspect that some portion of those pursuing the “high” standard do so begrudgingly because their parents made the choice for them a long time ago. You know your own classmates: Look around – I bet there are a few future literature majors or philosophy majors in the bunch. There are few who don’t know what they want to do.

Parents push their kids toward bigger and better things – we can’t help ourselves. Problems can arise when parents’ dreams don’t match their kids’ dreams.

There are no sure things, so you might as well aim for something you think you’ll like. Ninety percent of everything is below the water. 


Joe


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## zapthatmonster

My lighting design teacher from last term gave us some food for thought. He theorized this: In past times of economic strain such as this one, the world has turned to the arts to give them hope and comfort. 

My father works in the film and TV industry as crew, and he does fine and has always done fine. We could do better, but we could also do a lot worse. We moved to a city in a state that has tax breaks for film companies and a high film presence and he hasn't stopped working since. He has never not been able to support his wife and four kids, and he still occasionally has his perks. He is also now in the top of his department's ranks in the area and regularly has to choose between 3 shows who want to hire him. 

It'll be hard at first, but yes, it is possible. And there are indeed sacrifices. My father used to be away from home a good 6 months out of the year. Now that we live in the city this doesn't happen. Scheduling is tiring, on both theatrical and film projects. If you freelance you give up benefits for you and your family (unless this somehow gets fixed by the government soon) - we didn't have health insurance until my mom got it for going back to school. It's hard, but if it's what makes you happy do it.


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## gafftaper

Lots of great answers already. The key point is that if you are good you will work. If you are not good, word will get around fast and you won't work. The choices you face in professional theater have been laid out pretty well already. Don't ignore educational theater as an option. I'm very happy with my teaching life. There are benefits, retirement programs, there are vacation days, there is also the personal fulfillment of opening a student's eyes to a new world. 

Finally there are also lots of interesting sidetracks that involve tech. I have a cousin who has done lighting at Seaworld for years. There are also lots of ways you can be involved in theater without actually doing theater. What about working at a theater dealer or manufacturer... remember you can always do tech as a hobby.


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## Pie4Weebl

Keep in mind you could always move into theatre and then shift into a desk job in the same industry if you find you don't like the schedule.


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## gafftaper

Pie4Weebl said:


> Keep in mind you could always move into theatre and then shift into a desk job in the same industry if you find you don't like the schedule.



Good point. We have a large regional theater and a monstrous children's theater here in town. I went through their websites and counted nearly 200 jobs that didn't directly involve acting or working on crew. There are lots of office jobs available for people with a variety of backgrounds and abilities. But you still get to work in the arts and be part of the magic. It's not a bad option at all.


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## michaelburgoyne

As Gafftaper and others have already said, there are a variety of theatre-related careers that allow more stability than freelance work. My wife and I were both freelance lighting designers and technicians before we reached the point in our lives when we wanted a house and family. Now we both work fairly normal 9-5 hours, she's selling theatrical equipment and I'm a theatre consultant. We both spend our days working with designers and technicians, helping them do their jobs and solve problems.

There are countless theatre career paths, take every opportunity to learn "parallel" skills (AutoCAD, for example) that may ease the transition if you decide to change paths in the future.


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## cdub260

This is an interesting industry we've all chosen to work in, or perhaps its more accurate to say the theatre chose us. I've seen people who aren't half as good as me go on to far greater success than I ever thought possible, but at the same time I've also seen people with more talent and skill than I could hope to gain in a lifetime of doing this, leave the industry because they couldn't earn a living at it. So is going into theatre a safe career move? No. Is it worth the risk? If you love working in theatre, are reasonably talented, and a hard worker, you just might be able to pull it off.

If you're really serious about doing theatre for a living, the single best bit of advise I can give you is, learn carpentry. My first love in theatre is lighting and electrical, but in the early years of my career, I worked as a carpenter a whole lot more than I did as an electrician. Every show needs someone to build the sets, often many someones. As an example, at the Pageant of the Masters, we have 1 electrician on our staff. Thats me by the way. But we have 3 full time carpenters. 

Lucky for me, I did overhire at the Pageant off and on for 5 years. I was right on the edge of leaving the industry because I was not earning a living doing freelance work. Then I was offered the Master Electrician position at the Pageant. The application was a formality, not so much because no one else wanted the job, but because, having worked with me on a part time basis for 5 years, the Director and Technical Director wanted me there full time. They didn't even look at any other applicants.

The point here is, if you are an asset to your employer(s) you will be able to earn a living doing this, but as so many others before me have said, it may take a while to reach that point.


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## Skylie

My mom has been pestering me about going into Tech Theater also. She wants me to pursue my original dream of being an Astrophysist. But I changed my dream when I stepped into the world of Tech Theater. I found the place where i accually fit in somewhere. Once you get really good and get your name out there then your set. I started working with a tech director at a local pro theater and have gotten better at it. So i say find someone who would be able to help you when your young so then when you go to college and are majoring in tech theater you just blow your professors and all of the other students away with your skills and all of your old mentors just might put a good work in for you in the long run. And if you are having trouble getting into the college that you want because they don't know your skills yet, letter of recommendations are a great way to persuade them. So start young and it will help you in the long run. Oh and i'm still pursueing my physics dream but im gonna minor in physics and major in tech theater.


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## Grog12

First off welcome to the Booth Skylie, please stop by our New Members Forum and introduce yourself.

Its interesting to see this thread pop back up after laying dormant for 4 years. How is everyone feeling these days about their economic viability and their career?


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## iAdam

Actually, thats a good thought... choosing my options in the next couple months and was going to choose technical theatre.. would be nice to know how financially viable it is as a career...


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## Morydd

If you love doing it, you're going to do it one way or another. That might be professional theater, it might be community theater, it might be building overly elaborate forts with your kids. Whether you can make a living at it depends on a lot of things. Right now is tough because the economy is bad, and when people make cuts, they make cuts to things like entertainment first. That said, if you know technical theater, you have a lot of skills that translate outside the theater, so you're unlikely to go hungry if you're willing to work. Keep in mind that what you major in in college, or what your first job out of high school is, isn't automatically your career. You're not locked in for the rest of your life, so if you try it and decide you don't love it as much as you thought, it's not the end.


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## ruinexplorer

There are many threads on this general topic in the Booth. However, let's take a look at it. Many options for working in theater are not very well paid positions. So, if you start out in the industry with a lot of debt, you may run into trouble paying the bills. I cannot vouch for the general state of affairs in other countries, but I have a fair bit of experience in the United States, and based off the economic situation world-wide, it probably is not much different. Generally speaking, the larger the city, the greater amount of opportunities there will be. However, the market for well paying positions is fairly small over all. Labor is the greatest expense for most any industry, and with all the other costs associated with putting on a production, they try to save as much on technician pay as possible. Even in a city like Las Vegas, where there are world class productions, there are also a lot of low budget shows. The pay will go hand in hand with the size of the production. Unfortunately, the same goes for those working in the convention business. Those working for the large hotels will get paid better than the smaller chains. 

It is very easy to get jaded with the insider knowledge of what some in the business make and what you might be making. You will often question if you are being cheated or undervalued. I would have to work full time for one company and work on-call for several others just to get by for many years. Working 6-7 days a week, every week, using my vacation from my full time job so that I could take a big call through the union, just to save up the money to get through the slow periods (summer in the desert isn't the best time). This was not right out of college, either, but over a decade later.

One thing that you will have to accept, having a career in technical theater is just as much a lifestyle as it is a job. You will have a very dificult time having a "normal" life. Those of you who desire relationships and a family life will have to find someone who is willing to adopt the lifestyle. You will be working odd hours, nights, weekends, holidays, and they will have to be ok with that (I remember having my family come to the theater so we could have Thanksgiving in the green room consisting of microwave pizzas).

Even if you do happen to work on one of those "dream" jobs, you still need to plan for what may happen next. Many of the big shows are really being hit by the current state of the economy and will either close or make staffing cutbacks. If you happen to work on a headliner show, what happens if that headliner is no longer there? I'm thinking about the closing of Seigfrid and Roy (tiger attack) or Danny Gans (who passed away). Working one of these jobs can stagnate your career (working on out of date equipment). Not having competitive skills can be a career ender. 

So, is it economically safe? As with any career, it will have a lot to do with how you choose to pursue it. If you live in a small town/city that does not have a continuous tourist population, then it would probably be a bad decision. If you want to work steady hours, or working 40/week, then it probably won't work for you. If you are willing to do whatever it takes, you will be able to make this a viable solution. Just be prepared for a lot of sacrifice and to continue working and learning.


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## josh88

I know that in many cases it could be tough just to get started. When I graduated I applied to probably 50 different places all over the country (only jobs I was qualified for, I found more but either I didn't trust myself to do them or they wanted a higher degree, etc) and I heard back from maybe 7 of them, 5 of those were "we're going with someone else" 1 was a crappy offer and one was actually worth while. On the upside, I got that job and things are great. But I also have to teach along with it, which was my original intent. Though now I've established myself in the area and I'm turning jobs down because I can afford to say I won't work for pennies and because I'm busy enough with main work and outside jobs that I don't have the time. 

Getting known by people and meeting new people is one of the best things you can do in school and then after because if they know you and your talent they'll kick work to you when it comes along. I just got on a list to help paint for the Boston Ballet's nutcracker which apparently will be pretty huge, all because my Fiancee is directing a show with the kid of someone who works for Mystic Scenic. 

It's about who you know, and what you know. The more of each, the better off you'll be, that and being adaptable.


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## church

I went through the same struggle as a teen. I finally decided I did want to have the family etc. in the future, so I went to engineering school. My original plan was to become a engineer and then get a job for a stage lighting company designing theatre lighting equipment. My first CoOp term resulted in me working for a company that designed and built satelittes. After graduation I ended up working for them as an electronic design engineer. I am still in the satellite industry at the senior management level and I still love the technology. However it did allow me to also do theatre lighting in my spare time and that has evolved into owning my own lighting rental company. Regardless I have had a lot of fun along the way and still enjoy both roles - I am fortunate to have two things I love doing.


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## zmb

church, I'm looking at the same route as you right now. Did you ever find a job offer in R&D at a theatrical company like ETC, Strand, or J.R. Clancy? And where do you get to do lighting at in your spare time?


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## MPowers

Is it practical? I don't know. I've only been doing this since 1958, except for a brief vacation in SE Asia courtesy of my uncle, Uncle SAM that is, in 66-69. Maybe in a few years when I don't enjoy what I do and get tired of doing this and retire, I'll let you know if it's a good idea. I will say this, it's a lot more reliable than going the "Talent" route. I say this from experience. I started out as a dancer/actor. I stand in awe of those who throw their entire bankroll into that pot. A good tech will always have skills that equal a job. Over the years I have worked as a Union Electrician, CNC programer, precision machinist, structural rigging design engineer, LORT TD, University Faculty in Technical theater, rigging systems design engineer and installer. Just my take.

BTW --- it's a heck of a ride and I've loved every minute of it. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm not rich, I never will be. I pay my bills and live as I like. My father payed more in taxes each year than I will ever earn, but we both agreed, if you love what you do, you'll never work a day of your life. I'm still looking for my first day of "work".


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## JBrennan

I graduated in 2009 with a BFA in Theatre Arts. I was able to find work pretty consistently in the Bay Area from my junior year but it took a lot of hard work, hoofing it to different interviews, and long hours for little pay to get those jobs and connections. Since graduation I've been working full time as ATD at a junior college north of Chicago and freelancing in the city when I can squeeze it in. Next year I'll be going to an amazing grad school for a MFA that will essentially cost me only the cost of living for three years, and not because of FAFSA, but because the school knows what artists make and does everything they can to provide their students with enough aide to make it work. 

Can you make a living in technical theatre? Hell yes. Is it as lucrative as my friends who were business majors and making 2 to 3 times my salary the year we graduated? Hell no. 

To me you gotta figure out your wants and your needs. We all want the big pay checks, but I would guess that most of us on here need to be fulfilled by what we do. Work and study hard, don't be a jerk, and remember to get out of the theater for a few hours on the really sunny days, and everything will work itself out.


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## Blake

JBrennan said:


> To me you gotta figure out your wants and your needs. We all want the big pay checks, but I would guess that most of us on here need to be fulfilled by what we do. Work and study hard, don't be a jerk, and remember to get out of the theater for a few hours on the really sunny days, and everything will work itself out.



I Just need to know that I can support myself in a decent little apartment and survive off a little more than rice roni and pringles!


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## gafftapegreenia

Think about this. You might work a ten hour, with 8 off, then another 14, 8 off again, and then 4 more. After that you might not get a job for a week. You can make thousands from OT in one week and then that's it for a month Reversely you might work a whole month of small minimum hour calls. 

Can you make a decent living? Yes. Is it stable and reliable ? Not always. Most of us take as much work as we can when we can get it to prepare for when we don't. Lean how to manager your funds and realizing that in the current job market this is life.


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## Drmafreek

What a wonderful thread this has turned into. I must say, after having read through the entire thing, there is so much wisdom that what I have to offer is minuscule in comparison. The question: "Can you make a living in technical theatre?" Really, the answer is, why would you want to make a living in technical theatre? Out of undergrad, with a BFA in theatre, I decided to not follow my dreams. Instead, I got married, and started working as a 911 Operator/Police Dispatcher. The money was great. There is something to be said about working for the government. But, a year later and I was hankering to get back into my dream job. Luckily, I had a connection, and was able to get into grad school for Scene Design without much more than the word of my undergrad TD. Sometimes it truly is who you know. And so I dropped my job, and in 2001 went back to grad school in downtown Detroit. Needless to say I had to sweet talk the wife into moving there.

Fast-foward 10 years later and I am now the tenure track design professor at a small private liberal arts college. Now, for those that think you make a ton at private colleges, those are the big universities, not the colleges I work at. I continue to work professionally, in fact I have a gig in Pittsburgh in September, my first design for that city. But money is tight. And with two children, it makes it all the tougher. Even at the academic level, your hours are crazy. Especially during show weeks, where I see my family in the morning for breakfast and that is it. 

In the long run though, the one thing I can say, is I love my job. I love designing. I love tech theatre. I love teaching the next generation. And if I had stayed back in that 911 job, I'd be making at least 20k to 40k more than what I make now. But I would hate it. And I wouldn't be happy. So before you ever think about if it's economically viable, make sure it's the only thing you will be happy doing. Because if there is another choice, go with the alternative. Theatre can be tough. But it can also be rewarding.


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## Kelite

Pie4Weebl said:


> Keep in mind you could always move into theatre and then shift into a desk job in the same industry if you find you don't like the schedule.



Well said Victor. As we read press releases in the trade pubs, many fresh out of college employees have degrees in acting as well as technical theater. The insight gained from obtaining a degree in theater allows a sales approach buffered with a knowledge of products and (correct) processes. So many people with whom I communicate have musical and/or acting skills, they were just able to find steady (and presumably) gainful employment while looking for their 'break'. 
This industry is an eclectic mix, for sure!


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## neotrotsky

There's a TON here that's nothing but good stuff. Really can't add anything else other than what I did to diversify. 

When I lost my job in 2008, I also ended up moving back to Phoenix and starting flat over. Working in theater is always feast or famine (more famine at times). But, to make ends meet until I could figure out the recession and how it REALLY kicked Arizona hard I drove a Taxi. Let me tell you: NEVER resort to driving a taxi!! You will appreciate every show you work and not hate humanity as much as I do today. But, I suppose it's why I scramble so hard to keep the gigs I have. 

I ended up deciding to go back to school to master audio engineering. This is because I had gained most of my work as a Stage Manager and a properties designer. But, the more I worked the more I noticed how theater companies pay out the ass for live sound engineers, especially if it's for a musical. Also, most venues don't have the proper equipment for anything more than a basic performance. When you need a full cast of Lavaliers, 8 track digital recording and the mess that goes with that, most venues will lease out and I can assure you, if you think you're good at sound, run a show with 15 lavs, full recording, live musicians WITH canned elements through Ableton Live and do that for 6 weeks and then let me know if you think you can hack it. It still makes me stressed and I get paid to do it! Also, with an education in live sound I have a great fallback: Musicians! Yes, it's not theater but I have a strong background in music (Dad was a union giging musician and mother was a studio drummer when she was much younger), and any band who is halfway average will know the value of good kit and a good engineer right after their first BAD show!

But, the key to standing out isn't just skill. As a theater guy who WENT into live sound at 30, I had the edge of being able to exist in several worlds: I knew what it was to be an actor, a theater Stage Manager and TD, and a musician and live sound guy. Knowing the ins-and-outs of various and somewhat secretive industries can give you an edge on who to ask when there's a job to sniff out and who *really* runs the show. 

Also, I come with my own kit. This may sound expensive because it is, but when I can show up to a gig and tell them I have EVERYTHING they will need (even if I don't, but know where to get it so they wouldn't be the wiser), I can convince them that I'm worth an extra $100/week than the other guy when they can save a grand a week on equipment rental. No one likes to rent kit on TOP of paying for a contractor. So, the more tools I have to work with, the faster I work and the less the Producer and Stage Manager have to think. This applies to carpenters, lighting engineers, costumers and the like: The more resources and hardware you can bring to the table, the more attractive you are. Of course, this requires capital and that is probably the one unfair disadvantage to the entire tech side of entertainment. Some like me cheated: I took out student loans greater than my audio engineering degree WHILE working full time in order to get the kit I needed. Others just did the part time thing and did it slowly. But, when you can bring that edge no one else has you get the gigs first, and that's the element I recognized from my years as a barely-fed SM that I knew I could trump, especially since I can fabricate not only some of my own hardware, but write my own software if needed.

Is it a good idea: NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! But, that doesn't mean that it isn't an awesome job that is the perfect fit for some. Remember: Do what you love. I've been unfortunate to do what I dislike and I can honestly tell you that if I had to drive a cab for 6 more months, I would've ate my gun. Not. Kidding. So, theater in a way kept me going! Beats any office job hands DOWN.


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## Kingcaffeine

rosabelle334 said:


> My mom has been pestering me. She wants me to choose a path that will make me happy, but also pay the bills. She doesn't believe that technical theatre is the way to go. Is she right? Is backstage work really all that bad?
> 
> I live in a very high class town, in connecticut actaully, and we do ahve some of the best schools in the country. Obviously, its the standard of everyone here to pursue a career high up, and even go to an ivy-league college. Is it possible, if not to be come a full-time stage worker, to possibly to work on a show as well as hold some other white-collar job like our town expects us to do?
> 
> What about New York? If I were ever to work there is it economical to commute, or find an apartment there?



Man there are a lot of issues right off the bat here. 
Yes it's possible to work on a show as well as hold some other white-collar job. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond this thread. 

If you're looking to satisfy your parents, then something has gone wrong somewhere. You are an individual and your mission on Earth (depending on your particular take on the Universe) is to satisfy yourself.

If you're asking about the nuts and bolts of finance in theatre, yes - you can make a living wage....you must work hard (harder than you ever thought), you must endear yourself with skills to bolster that work, and you have to have laser beam focus on what it is that makes you happy. You won't get rich. Well, you won't get rich like what you think defines rich. Money is the least part. You can live in NYC and work in theatre (or a great many offshoot industries) and eat regularly. I lived in Jersey and commuted, working for a company based on Long Island, and did just fine.

If you're asking about whether a career path in theatre arts will be satisfying- yes....it is very satisfying. You will be a conduit for a great many things. Be willing to sacrifice though. Do you want to live in a nice house in Connecticut like your parents? Or do you want to live in a nice house on the outskirts of Vegas? There's a huge difference. Going to Yale (or any other school for that matter) and getting a degree in theatre that says you are 'qualified' doesn't mean $&^#. Using that degree to jump on a tenure track somewhere can work, but it won't mean much unless you can eat, pay for a car/buspass/train, and contribute to society. The financial stability of someone in a tenure track is just as shaky as everyone else. I've seen plenty of MFA's who can't patch a rack or address a fixture (or measure and cut gel, or tighten a clamp with any kind of precision, or troubleshoot a network issue). Get the skills first, then worry about whether you're satisfying Mom and Dad.

I think your initial hesitancy is pretty much like anyone else- you're afraid to jump. You're afraid that Mom and Dad might not like it, or that you might fail, or that something might not work....and that seems in line with what Theodore Geisel calls 'The Waiting Place'. Read 'Oh the Places You'll Go' for reference.

Above all- you have to be happy with what you do. If not, you'll end up like every other shmuck with a job that doesn't matter, in a place that doesn't affect anything, with a life that doesn't amount to much.

Remember- spelling and capitalization count. Get crackin'!


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## ruinexplorer

Great advice. However, since rosabelle is still with us, four years after her original post, I think this is best addressed as a general recommendation.


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## neotrotsky

ruinexplorer said:


> Great advice. However, since rosabelle is still with us, four years after her original post, I think this is best addressed as a general recommendation.



Oh. Well... that's what I get for getting near a computer on my day off. Date stamps are silly things anyway


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## Les

Kingcaffeine said:


> Yes it's possible to work on a show as well as hold some other white-collar job. Why anyone would want to do this is beyond this thread.



Probably so you can get the benefits of doing what you love, while also having better job security and a larger income.


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## ruinexplorer

neotrotsky said:


> Oh. Well... that's what I get for getting near a computer on my day off. Date stamps are silly things anyway



Oh, just wait until you see some of my very late night posts...


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## dancarden

if you really want to work in technical theater then you should follow your heart. i started working in the industry in england 20 years ago, working in theater at the start but then went into doing events where there is much more money and you can be paid very well. the entertainment industry is probably the most fun you can have while still earning money. do you really want to be sat in an office in a shirt and tie? i managed to buy my first property when i was 26 and have been mortgage free since i was 29, i have traveled the world with my work and met some really great people including my wife. my advice to you is to work in theater and educate yourself with a view to moving into TV, movies or events. i havent always been paid well but i have never been out of work.


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## 030366

church said:


> However it did allow me to also do theatre lighting in my spare time and that has evolved into owning my own lighting rental company. Regardless I have had a lot of fun along the way and still enjoy both roles - I am fortunate to have two things I love doing.



And it is exactly this that is making me consider a career switch now, now that I have already been in theatre for quite a number of years. I literally don't _have _spare time. And this is more common than I originally thought when I started pursuing theatre. So while I think it's neat that my job permeates all aspects of my life, the reality of it is that I have no friends, I can't go to anything ever (no dinners, no plays, no movies, no concerts, nothing), and I can't pursue anything other than what's immediately happening in my theatre. I won't be able to take music or language classes, I can't practice my guitar, and my significant other (who I live with!) is a stranger to me.

It's fun, but you'd darn well better want this life if you choose to pursue it. I love my job but I'd seriously consider giving it up so that I could have a few nights of sleep.


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## Dreadpoet

I would think that the area in which you choose to become proficient at greatly addresses your concerns. Being proficient in lighting and sound (perhaps rigging too) greatly enhance your flexibility in your chosen career path. Are you willing to tour? Do you want to settle down? Do you need good health insurance? Where are you at in your life? these are questions that you should be asking yourself...and then adapt your career path to meet your needs. Touring is good when your younger because it is good (can be great) money, great way to make connections, etc. If you want roots, seek small regional theatres for design work or technical direction or facilities management. If you want a nice balance...go pro young then head to the educational field later. The educational field is the greatest racket around allowing you to work at a moderate pace and then if you want professional do that in the summers. Currently I am working at a small college in the middle of nowhere and have no concerns when it comes to money and I have plenty of time in the year for trips/friends/family or even pro theatre in the summer if I want. The point is there are plenty of options out there. I was listening to a sound tech who moved into the video gaming industry...the world is your C-wrench make of it what you will with no regrets.


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