# Large PAR (46/56/64) lamps



## DELO72 (Mar 28, 2019)

Hi Everyone,

This is sort of a heads up that as of this month OSRAM is intending to discontinue our Large PAR lamps. I originally planned to write a long, 3-page explanation of the history behind our decision, and explain the changes in manufacturing and the lengthy reasons behind it. But that kind of "overly-honest" letter would likely result in my upsetting lawyers or management at my company, who prefer brevity and lack of details. So I'll keep this short. 

Please understand that we do not take this decision lightly, or by choice. Our hand was forced by our inability to find a factory or manufacturing partner that could consistently manufacture the lamps to our specification and quality requirements. We spent 4 years trying. Making large PAR lamps apparently IS rocket science. I say this with all seriousness because one of my colleagues in the office was formerly a process engineer at Sylvania's PAR factory in Kentucky years ago, and he has an Aerospace Engineering degree (iow- he's a rocket scientist), and he admitted that they are probably one of the hardest (if oldest) lamp types to manufacture consistently. 

We've initiated a voluntary recall of all Large PAR lamps that we have had made in China since Nov. of 2016. Previous to that the PARs were all made in the USA (or AluPAR in Mexico and Germany) and those are fine. 

Q: Why don't we go back to making them in the USA? 
A: That factory was closed and the possibility (and machinery) no longer exists.

Q: Why don't we bring back the AluPAR?
A: When we discontinued that line a few years back, apparently the machinery was scrapped or sold off. That option also no longer exists. 

Q: What do I do about my existing fixtures?
A: I wish I could tell you what to do. I honestly don't know. Perhaps look into ETC Source Four PAR fixtures? Or replace them with newer, LED fixtures? All I know is that we can't make the lamps anymore, and we have no way of bringing these kinds of lamps back to the market at this time. We wish we could. Again, this isn't a decision we chose, so much as one that was forced upon us.

Q: How do I find out more about this recall you mention above? 
A: It will be posted on our website (www.osram.us) and/or you can contact us at 1-855-865-9271 or by email [email protected] for details and instructions how to participate in it. 

Q: I'm really angry about this! Who can I yell at? 
A: Anyone but me. I've been dealing with the frustration over these for the past 4 years now. If you think you (or your customer) are upset, try multiplying that by a factor of 10, and you'll be almost where I am. 


Sincerely,

Mark

ps. Please don't use this thread to vent at me/us. I just wanted a post to try and explain the situation.


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## Amiers (Mar 28, 2019)

So what does that mean for the other manufacturers selling these, like GE LL Platinum and all the others. 

Did they not hold the same standard? 

Was the investment of creating new machinery more than the ROR?

What base did y’all use that can’t be used by other lamps?

Curiosity really you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to. 

And that sucks hopefully you vent enough not to slip at a corporate meeting.


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## techieman33 (Mar 28, 2019)

Amiers said:


> So what does that mean for the other manufacturers selling these, like GE LL Platinum and all the others.
> 
> Did they not hold the same standard?
> 
> ...



GE stopped producing par lamps a while back as well.


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## cbrandt (Mar 28, 2019)

It is a sign of the times.

On a _completely_ unrelated note, does anyone want a nice Par 64 120k rig?


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## RonHebbard (Mar 28, 2019)

cbrandt said:


> It is a sign of the times.
> 
> On a _completely_ unrelated note, does anyone want a nice Par 64 120k rig?


 *@cbrandt* With or without lamps?*?* The value may be in the C clamps and male connectors. How much are you paying to take it / them off your hands*??*
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## derekleffew (Mar 28, 2019)

The future is RAYLIGHTS ! (Provided Osram/others continue making the DYS.)


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## jonliles (Mar 28, 2019)

Sylvannia is done. GE is done. Osram is done. They're expensive to buy and to operate (electricity and cooling). BulbAmerica still has them for now, but who knows who they use as a MFG Vendor? 

I got rid of all of ours years ago.


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## techieman33 (Mar 28, 2019)

derekleffew said:


> The future is RAYLIGHTS ! (Provided Osram/others continue making the DYS.)



Because everyone loves replacing lamps every 60-90 hours.


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## techieman33 (Mar 28, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@cbrandt* With or without lamps?*?* The value may be in the C clamps and male connectors. How much are you paying to take it / them off your hands*??*
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



I would guess that the real value is in the aluminum scrap.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 28, 2019)

Does this mean ACLs as well are simply artifacts?


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## Mac Hosehead (Mar 28, 2019)

My boss says that there isn't enough demand outside of the entertainment industry to keep these lamps profitable. I know some local venues that have a large PAR 64 inventory. I guess an ETC Source 4 Par would the easiest drop-in replacement but it would be quite a few fixtures to replace for some people.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 28, 2019)

Good excuse to replace with LED. Move on.


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## techieman33 (Mar 28, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Good excuse to replace with LED. Move on.



Agreed, it’s just a matter of time before the rest of the lamps we use start to be phased out. GE has already completely pulled out of the market. Osram and the others will probably follow sooner or later. Anything other than maybe HPLs will just keep getting harder to get. And by the time you buy all new s4 pars and and all that goes with them it’s not that big of a stretch financially to just buy LEDs.


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## Mac Hosehead (Mar 28, 2019)

If you have a large inventory of PARs then going to LEDs is nice, however it normally requires modifications to control and power systems as well. There is usually an associated down-time.


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## RonHebbard (Mar 28, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> *Does this mean ACLs as well* are simply artifacts?


 *@BillConnerFASTC* and / or *@Ancient Engineer* What are the commercial airliners using for aircraft landing lights currently and for the past one or two years*?* 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## SteveB (Mar 28, 2019)

Mac Hosehead said:


> My boss says that there isn't enough demand outside of the entertainment industry to keep these lamps profitable. I know some local venues that have a large PAR 64 inventory. I guess an ETC Source 4 Par would the easiest drop-in replacement but it would be quite a few fixtures to replace for some people.



I replaced my PAR64 units about 10-12 years ago with S4 Pars. We then received last May another 90 S4’s with the new building. And subsequently 52 ETC D60’s and 24 ColorSource Pars.

In the past 7 mos, and 7 shows, not one S4 Par was used. The last show used an incandescent lamp on a wall sconce. That was it for incandescent.

I feel for Sylvania/OSRAM, but I will likely never again use any of the 48 PAR64’s we keep in storage.


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## SteveB (Mar 28, 2019)

I’m about to do the proposal to our new Facilities head about what’s involved in updating our house lighting system to screw-in LED lamps. Upgrade to the Sensor, new Paradigm system, as well as a boat load of 40w (440 total) and 150w PS lamps (220 total). 

No choice, no problem, when in 5 years the incandescent lamps are no longer manufactured and thentheater slowly gets darker and darker.....


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## RonHebbard (Mar 28, 2019)

SteveB said:


> I replaced my PAR64 units about 10-12 years ago with S4 Pars. We then received another 90 S4’s with the new building. And subsequently 52 ETC D60’s and 24 ColorSource Pars.
> 
> In the past 7 mos, and 7 shows, not one S4 Par was used. The last show used an incandescent lamp on a wall sconce. That was it for incandescent.
> 
> I feel for Sylvania/OSRAM, but I will likely never again use any of the 48 PAR64’s we keep in storage.


 *@SteveB* Possibly a future production will come along wanting the historic look of a 1980's touring rock concert*?* Possibly a ZZTop revival show*??* (Or you could drop a hint with the Donald that 48 _experienced_ PAR 64's would improve his ratings.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## Kristi R-C (Mar 28, 2019)

FWIW, most of the lighting for War Horse was Pars. Paule Constable won a Tony for it. 


Ah well... time marches on. Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up.


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## TimMc (Mar 28, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@SteveB* Possibly a future production will come along wanting the historic look of a 1980's touring rock concert*?* Possibly a ZZTop revival show*??* (Or you could drop a hint with the Donald that 48 _experienced_ PAR 64's would improve his ratings.)
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



The obnoxious band with a "reality" TV show insists on incandescent PAR fixtures for the drummer, in fact he likes the "bake until medium-well done" heat from them. I fired myself from doing their shows because... well, if I say it I could be sued... so.... I "just say no."


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## SteveB (Mar 28, 2019)

TimMc said:


> The obnoxious band with a "reality" TV show insists on incandescent PAR fixtures for the drummer, in fact he likes the "bake until medium-well done" heat from them. I fired myself from doing their shows because... well, if I say it I could be sued... so.... I "just say no."



Last “Band” we had prior to closing for renovation, the Israeli LD, having specified all ML’s and LED Pars, wanted to use part of the house rig, those S4’s, but gave me a pained look when I asked him what colors - I.E. Gels. He’d never used gels. Had never seen a swatch book.


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## JohnD (Mar 28, 2019)

TimMc said:


> The obnoxious band with a "reality" TV show insists on incandescent PAR fixtures for the drummer, in fact he likes the "bake until medium-well done" heat from them. I fired myself from doing their shows because... well, if I say it I could be sued... so.... I "just say no."


Don't forget Kanye at Glastonbury. BTW, that light rig had 792 Pars.


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 29, 2019)

Guess the times really are a-changing.


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## Ancient Engineer (Mar 29, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> What are the commercial airliners using for aircraft landing lights currently and for the past one or two years*?*



Go here: https://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/aircraft_parts/ap/menus/el/landinglights.html

While these people cater to general aviation primarily, the 46/56 that is in most commercial/militray aircraft will likely get solid state replacements.


Although... back when I was in the Navy, I saw a pile of 64WFLs that could have re-lamped every PAR-can from here to Mars. Twice.

I have been done with military service so long that they have probably used them all...


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 29, 2019)

Hm, on a related note, looks like Uni-Par died.


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## Erik456 (Mar 30, 2019)

Kristi R-C said:


> FWIW, most of the lighting for War Horse was Pars. Paule Constable won a Tony for it.
> 
> 
> Ah well... time marches on. Thanks, Mark, for the heads-up.


Same LD, Paulie, lit the current Les Miserables tour (and Broadway). Was the head on that tour for a year before I moved on but it has a rather large PAR rig. The entire backlight system is PAR64 as well as a ton of sidelight. She is all about color and intensity (only one gobo used).


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## Amiers (Mar 30, 2019)

I mean it’s les mis the set is the gobo IMO. 

I wouldn’t even see the use for a hobo except for the water scenes.


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## ship (Mar 31, 2019)

TMB has a Mexico supplier for PAR 64 lamps in the works. First pallet of them on order is in theory on the way - months in waiting and perhaps months more to get - assuming they are even viable dependable lamps. Other than ANSI lamps they are making... still waiting on the first delivery and or reliability and seeing if other versions available or sustainable. Sorry to all but Philips, GE, Ushio, Eiko are also done with the lamp type. They also stopped making them years ago. GE/Corning made most of the lamps for the industry as most of learned when Corning shut down production for a few months - many years ago. Ushio and Eiko had different makers of the lamp, but could not compete in price to GE/corning so they were shut down years ago.

I apologize that I and others in the industry have been hopeful that Mark would get his lamps done in saving the PAR 64 industry, but once it was known such lamps were not viable, as it were... hoarding up all the lamps I could, and not selling them. At some point I work for a large buyer business and just bairly got out the door a huge user for their show this year! Moving up the chain of command is the realization that if the TMB source for the lamps does not work out - they will no longer be using at this point around a thousand fixtures amongst shows. Given this... one can understand me stocking my shelves first of course with what I could buy.

For my customers, I'm on an install this week where data cable is needed to install for a LED upgrade from PAR. And even on other quotes not likely to get, been warning customers to budget for the replacement of the PAR can for a few years now. Also posted this at CB as per best practice. TMB might provide a alternate lamp, but plan to replace your PAR lamps if only supplier. It is happening.


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## Les (Mar 31, 2019)

Amiers said:


> I mean it’s les mis the set is the gobo IMO.
> 
> I wouldn’t even see the use for a gobo except for the water scenes.




The last time I lit Les Mis (which I think was 2005), I used a ton of gobos; but mostly for aerial beamage through the haze. I believe I also used some breakups to overlay the barricade scenes and Rue Plumet. Most of them were very neutral colors -- R02, R60, etc.

Edit: I forgot, I also had multiple sewer grates as well as a bunch of windows that crossfaded as Eponine sang On My Own. She walked against the revolve, so various windows faded in and out to suggest different locations she was passing by.

Here are a few pictures I yoinked from my own Facebook. As I walk down memory lane.


/Hijack


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## SteveB (Mar 31, 2019)

I have seen vendors listing Ushio lamps, no idea if they've discontinued as well.


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## ship (Mar 31, 2019)

Ushio are discontinued also.


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## RonHebbard (Mar 31, 2019)

ship said:


> Ushio are discontinued also.


 *@ship* This HAS to be the *shortest* post you've ever made here! *@Amiers * Can you concur*?*
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## StradivariusBone (Apr 1, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Does this mean ACLs as well are simply artifacts?



The airplane industry has been moving to LED in general aviation for a bit. I have a hobbyist's interest in it, but it appears there is a number of products geared toward retrofitting aircraft with LED landing lights. Of course, they don't much concern themselves with dimming so that doesn't help the Rock and Roll crowd. 


BillConnerFASTC said:


> Good excuse to replace with LED. Move on.



That said, is there a clear frontrunner in drop-in LED retrofits for PARs? I'm thinking about our orchestra shell lights. I doubt that a Source4 PAR would fit in there and because the dimming is non-essential for these fixtures I wouldn't mind not having to run a data cable for my shells.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 1, 2019)

The S4WRD par is my current favorite for shells. Will dim OK on a dimmer - some better on data.

Go easy on yourself and just put up wireless for the shell. Short line of sight distances. Probably pretty safe and oh so easy. Yes - will need one DMX line up high.


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## Footer (Apr 1, 2019)

Does a press release for this stoppage exist? I'm going to need something to staple to my 30k purchase order....


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## Amiers (Apr 1, 2019)

Only 30k. I figured the egg ran a full par rig :laughingface:


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## ship (Apr 2, 2019)

Got the bill today for the lamps. Have not got them yet in not paying yet, A question in customs or delivery time and Trump shutting down the boarder might stall the first batch of lamps further.


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## Footer (Apr 3, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Only 30k. I figured the egg ran a full par rig :laughingface:


We only have 30 Par64's in the air, two systems of backlight. Still have a crap ton of stand/century 22xx's in the air... so if the FEL goes away we are in for some hurt.


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## StradivariusBone (Apr 3, 2019)

What's the estimate on how long other incandescent lamps will last? Is this something to future proof against now? The church I do part time work for is old school and exclusively PAR lit. I'm wondering if it would be more prudent for them to invest in LED front wash. Is there even a ballpark on when the last HPL will be made?


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## blueeyesdesigns (Apr 3, 2019)

Is there any more info on *why* the lamps were recalled? We just spent hundreds of dollars on lamps a few months ago and they're all subject to it. At this point, I don't even know where they all are. If the reason is "they burn out too quickly" I can deal with it. If the reason is "they explode" my reaction's going to be a bit different....


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## seansbar (Apr 3, 2019)

Footer said:


> We only have 30 Par64's in the air, two systems of backlight.


Good thing there is only 30, otherwise it may be a baked egg.
Although with the scaffolding I've seen recently, maybe they are trying to crack it open?


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## ship (Apr 4, 2019)

I have no knowledge other than I was not sold any and possiblly none were sold. What brand of lamps did you buy, and yes of Osram, see if old stock or subject to the hold on sales or what might be a recall for details. Your fixture safety screen is there to prevent any life threatening injury, if you have reall old cans without them... you are primary liable I would think because even older lamps fail - been interesting posts about them. After that if small glass particles of the case of a lamp explosion from a known to be bad lamp - if in hold for that reason... If sold before the hold/recall, Osram is liable. If sold after the hold/recall who sold it to you is liable.

All that said, there had been a huge stock of pre-Corning discontination of lamps on the market. If other than an Osram brand, you are absolutely fine with the lamps as per normal. If Osram, should contact your vendor to see which lot of lamps they are. If old stock made by GE/Corning, the lamp should operate as expected. I do not know why Osram did the hold on their lamps, and discontinued production, but it was possibly just that the filament didn't hold up.


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## JohnD (Apr 5, 2019)

So how about these from Techni-lux. 
Available soon and made in the USA.


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## ship (Apr 7, 2019)

Not aware of Techni-Lux brand of PAR lamps. Great you bring up a potential new supplier of them.


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## DELO72 (Apr 8, 2019)

blueeyesdesigns said:


> Is there any more info on *why* the lamps were recalled? We just spent hundreds of dollars on lamps a few months ago and they're all subject to it. At this point, I don't even know where they all are. If the reason is "they burn out too quickly" I can deal with it. If the reason is "they explode" my reaction's going to be a bit different....



It's a combination of the two. Please pull them out of service ASAP. They do pose a potential safety risk.


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## DELO72 (Apr 8, 2019)

FYI- HPLs and other high volume TH lamps should be around for a long time. (we hope). Between just USHIO and OSRAM, we make and sell more than 700,000 of these (just HPLs) a year. 

Source Fours will be around for a long time. Still the best lighting fixture on the market (IMHO).


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 8, 2019)

@DELO72 , So the FEL should continue to be the bane of @derekleffew ‘s existence for the foreseeable future?


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## DELO72 (Apr 8, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> @DELO72 , So the FEL should continue to be the bane of @derekleffew ‘s existence for the foreseeable future?



Yes, but why would he want them to be? FELs are big heaters. I'd (personally) switch over to using GLD's instead. 750W 115V with a MUCH more robust filament design, higher CCT (115V vs. 120V), same 300 hr. lifetime, and almost as much lumens (probably as much USABLE lumens due to the smaller Coil Box of the filament). I personally HATE the filament design of the CC8 (FLK, FEL, EHD, EHG, etc.) lamps because they have those two really sharp angles on the top and bottom supporting the filament, and they tend to break easier as a result when bumped than C13D filament designs (GLC, GLA, BTL, GLD, GLE, etc.) which are more built like springs on a trampoline, with lots of little supports instead of one big support. Just my personal preference as a former ME/LD.


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## ship (Apr 9, 2019)

Derek likes them because they are what they are, as with asbestos wiring. Believe at some point the FEL was a solution Especially for Lekos to a lighting industry not solving the problems of needing more light - this even if bulk of light for it wasted and it destroyed lights while in use. Respect your elders for what they can share with you, and or what pain they can make you have to deal with in learning short of their experience on site or some day when you are the elder. Joking half cheeked but Derek while I don't understand some of the things he stands for, is my elder and his experience in why is from a base of knowledge. I might go another way, but I do want to research why he feels that way, this before his represitation for an elder generation goes away. His generation was trained by elders from another, and before one more for modern lighting. Next my and Mark's generation.

So came up tonight off line in 3.5Q5 Leko restoration project discussion, what's the best lamp for a gobo one one? Assuming Robert Altman personally sent me an origional Thorn HX-600 lamp... back in like 93' with my repair parts to a 3.5Q5, (long story in snail mails and the Shakespere development in parts), and he was not worried about lack of UL listing in using them during phone call to me in my dorm room - catching me a college punk student there. Assuming nobody that has to be compliant with the UL tested listing of the my favorite 3.5Q5 in getting re-tested... (similar to a FEL in a 360Q fixture - known to work but burn up components.) 

Mark, is there a unofficially speaking the GLC or HPR (I have a stash of) best lamp for a 3.5Q5 (In a not listed way, not advised by way of listing concept for lamp with a gobo? R&D wise a best lamp?) Or did you ever figure out how to fit a HPL filament into these lamps?

I'll stop joking about someone figuring out the liquid cooled version of this halogen lamp some day. Though isn't there some form of liquid cooled xenon lamps in service pointed out which you always explain why not for halogen? (again now.) 

In same discussion, about how in going RGB LED, how flattening and less vibrant or CRI a shame it is in from say 36+ fixtures to light from a bar before, one now only needs 12 to do the same.

Lighting design is changing a lot, yet a fear for many medium budget thateres/churches, the cost of the LED makes for worse lighting. My very personal advice, add the LED's yes, but keep around the rest of your lights - Leko's and PARs' and Fresnels in perhaps supplemental lighting. Don't yet trash your dimmers, intrigrade while supplementing. Might cost more to leave in place what you have and add to it. Than add to it again etc. in not getting rid of all but supplementing in the key lights and others more and more replaced as supplemental. Get some with budget actual LED Leko's as the LED PAR just doesn't do what the PAR flat wash done and gone does.

My fear is the science of lighting design for mid to lower theaters and churches is by way of this new technology becoming downgraded in the artistic elements of it. A more efficient halogen lamp.. liquid cooled halgen lamp. Not a dumb idea in furtherance of either efficiency in concept to compete with LED, and sustain current stock, and a concern that simple solutions in lighting are not the best for design in regression. For my day, I remember statements from the managers, about removing all the Leko's and just installing PAR fixtures. That for the most part fell thru, I hope the LED replacement is beneficial and supplemental rather than damage to art.


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## techieman33 (Apr 9, 2019)

We still use FELs in our old strand stuff. I've tried GLDs in a few lights and we get less output from them. Maybe 30 years ago when the lights were new it would be a different story. But over time the inefficient optics have only gotten more so. Warped reflectors, damaged coating on reflectors, etc. Then add in the problem of only seeing 106v-110v on most of our dimmer circuits at full. It's great for lamp life, but terrible for total output. In the end the damage is done and we just have to do what we can to eek as much performance out of them as possible. 


As for cooling I'm not sure if that would work. My understanding was that halogen lamps burning hotter than a standard incandescent is what made them more efficient. As a result the filament is burning off faster, but then the halogen gas helps to deposit the tungsten back onto the filament instead of the inside of the envelope. And for that cycle to work the lamp needs to get hot.


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## derekleffew (Apr 15, 2019)

ship said:


> Derek likes them because they are what they are, as with asbestos wiring.


Westinghouse's 750T12/9 lamps were the best!


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## ship (Apr 15, 2019)

TE, heard the observation on the FEL brighter, this even with a less efficient filament working better than a modern GLD lamp before. Similar to my observation that the 3.5Q5 with a HPR lamp out punched a S4 575. In your case if up for trying, you could try a Philips #6981P, or #6982P (Same part number Philips #13420-5), they have more output than a GLD and smaller filament. 

Point source of light obviously part of the key to to reflected light, but than of course my ColorTran and Kliegl #1340's bench focus in an elipsoidal reflector just fine - even with 50w lamps - more modern and lower wattage than spec. The long filament RSC cc-8 based fixture reflectors perhaps were designed for their lamps. Perhaps - though you cannot tell a slight bend or something to the ellipse... perhaps it compensates for that larger filament / these filaments.... in an age before computer drafting.

Halogen vs. Incandescent... yes that is a factor as with cooling, but mostly the robust earlier designs will or will not take the heat. Mostly will when wired modern and maintained, but depends on situation. 6" Fresnels of all ages since the 1930's have never had a problem with halogen upgrades other than in wiring and maintaining.


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## ship (Apr 15, 2019)

Derek I have no specs on the 750T12/9. Suspect it was a P-28s lamp similar to the BFE or DTJ? You and Clyde our friend amongst others were/are of an amazing generation and mentours to me and all on the forum - continued. Your generation made magic to apriciate in making great changes to modern design, the movie "West Side Story" was done with your generation of advencements in design done Leko's and similar gear as an example. 

And you were trained by people with background in the PC spot age, them trained by at best carbon arc age, so much new technology - with bleed in probably your cross training in ancient to us fixtures. Your memories of the 750T12/9 are romantic but important. Was it sufficient light for what you needed? Did it make art in the day? Yes! Think of how many mainstay plays or musicals came out while you were working with, still vibrant in our industry for a bulk of them. 

My point... do you know DMX coding better than I, and or LED tech current in use better than I... Yes! Amazing the amount of tech change you have seen. Still you hold onto 750T12/9. That out of respect given the norm for modern... that must have been some lamp. Will keep in mind and send you any I might have.

Still though... some old modes or wiring you hold onto amazing you will not cut. When the visit my Friend?


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## derekleffew (Apr 15, 2019)

ship said:


> The long filament RSC cc-8 based fixture reflectors perhaps were designed for their lamps. Perhaps - though you cannot tell a slight bend or something to the ellipse... perhaps it compensates for that larger filament / these filaments.... in an age before computer drafting.


Strand-Century and others "solved" this beginning in the late 1960s first with flatted, then double-flatted reflectors. The ellipsoid is made of may squarish planar facets, each positioned to reflect the filament through the same point in the gate.


ship said:


> Halogen vs. Incandescent... yes that is a factor as with cooling, but mostly the robust earlier designs will or will not take the heat. Mostly will when wired modern and maintained, but depends on situation. 6" Fresnels of all ages since the 1930's have never had a problem with halogen upgrades other than in wiring and maintaining.


There's lots of volume inside a Fresnel and the spherical reflector isn't very good at reflecting all of the light. Whereas in an ellipsoid, light, heat, and sound are all reflected save for the void of the hole in the reflector.


ship said:


> ...in an age before computer drafting.


I give you the 1975-ish fixture using a hybrid PARAbolic, ELLipspheric, SPHeric reflector, the Electro-Controls Parellipshere.
-----
750T12/9. Non-T/H version of the EGG or DNT. Standard "Leko" lamp back in the day. Worked fine with Roscolene and Cinemoid.
.


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## ship (Apr 16, 2019)

Caught my easy point on the Fresnel in making a concept point - good job, but vaiid in not too many reflectors burning up. 
But fascinated by your reply in history of how they were designed I only suspected, cool thanks you knew all that off hand. And now the world knows how/why. 

On my get list the Parellesphere (Philisphere?) as with a Patt 23. I have a Daughter and bills and no longer am spending money on E-Bay stocking the museum. 

Again old guy.. friend, when are you coming to visit and help identify some lights?


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## Dionysus (Apr 16, 2019)

ship said:


> Caught my easy point on the Fresnel in making a concept point - good job, but vaiid in not too many reflectors burning up.
> But fascinated by your reply in history of how they were designed I only suspected, cool thanks you knew all that off hand. And now the world knows how/why.
> 
> On my get list the Parellesphere (Philisphere?) as with a Patt 23. I have a Daughter and bills and no longer am spending money on E-Bay stocking the museum.
> ...


If you want to pay the shipping ill GIVE you a Patt 23 and Patt 123. Got lots. Parellepsheres are harder to find now though... That last theatre I know that had some still was the Blyth Festival Theatre, and they got rid of theirs a year or two ago (sold for scrap). They were really great lights really however they are HEAVY and LARGE.


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## ship (Apr 17, 2019)

Off line reply.


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## bosox242 (Apr 17, 2019)

ship said:


> Caught my easy point on the Fresnel in making a concept point - good job, but vaiid in not too many reflectors burning up.
> But fascinated by your reply in history of how they were designed I only suspected, cool thanks you knew all that off hand. And now the world knows how/why.
> 
> On my get list the Parellesphere (Philisphere?) as with a Patt 23. I have a Daughter and bills and no longer am spending money on E-Bay stocking the museum.
> ...



At my old venue they may still have some Parellipsphere's in storage (if they didn't finally scrap them). I believe I also found the brochure and maybe even a letter from the company they bought them from.


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## KRISTOF LEOPOLD (Apr 18, 2019)

JohnD said:


> So how about these from Techni-lux.
> Available soon and made in the USA.


country of origin "China", not made in the US


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## JohnD (Apr 18, 2019)

I was wondering about that. When I posted that, the cut-sheet listed the US as country of origin. It also seems the in stock date has been pushed back a week or two.


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## ship (Apr 22, 2019)

And still waiting for my TMB PAR 64 lamps from Mexico....


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## ship (Apr 24, 2019)

Just saw an email from Creative Stage Lighting today... they are selling off their "used" lamps. Interesting and if needed, there is a source. 

I wonder if an Ohm's test can detect how "used" a lamp is?


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## jds10011 (May 8, 2019)

Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but Satco claims to still have PAR lamps. 

I reached out to them and got back the following: "We are still stocking the S4673. They are safe and we will continue to stock them."

Anyone want to weigh in?

https://www.satco.com/s4673.html


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## ship (May 9, 2019)

Got my lamps at least a month + ago appairently. (Put in a rush for accounting Dpt. to pay the bill I have been rejecting.) Lamps were dropped off to a different department that didn't open the boxes or ask why they were storing them. Satco!!! never thought of them or heard of them (Known of brand) supplying such a lamp, Eiko/Wiko was a no but forgot about that Satco brand in asking or knowing they also did them. Thanks in me not considering them. Satco needs better marketing in otherwise background noise of suppliers confused with Eiko and with lower respect for brand - just is that way or has been that way since before most "name brands" sold off lamp operations. They 
satc0 as per smaller, but known brand (sedondary brand) should have had better outreach - especially given the above problem. Thouroughy are screwing the pooch in marketing and defining their brand at this time. Ushio broke away from the second in quality to GE/Philips/Osram "Quality lamps" at some point... Satco might have in missed oppertunity given the PAR 64 lamp problem. On the other hand if quality lamps... could become the new name as per last known brand making them. Or could be crap in quality in at this point alll other current brands of PAR 64 lamp might be. 

It's a dying lamp platform and in new usages will be avoided, that makes it harder to justify making better quality lamps or upgrades to them.


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## DELO72 (May 10, 2019)

jds10011 said:


> Not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere but Satco claims to still have PAR lamps.
> 
> I reached out to them and got back the following: "We are still stocking the S4673. They are safe and we will continue to stock them."
> 
> ...




Those are the Long-Life (4000 hr), Architectural PAR64s. Therefore, since we never launched those out of China, they are likely (if Sylvania or GE brand) former "Made in the USA" versions. All good.


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## jds10011 (May 10, 2019)

DELO72 said:


> Those are the Long-Life (4000 hr), Architectural PAR64s. Therefore, since we never launched those out of China, they are likely (if Sylvania or GE brand) former "Made in the USA" versions. All good.



So, these are still in production? Or is this likely remaining stock? Just trying to get clarification. I just received a few units today, and they are stamped SATCO but no mention of China (though they are in the very thin white boxes).


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## techieman33 (Jul 24, 2019)

4Wall posted a nice little eulogy for the parcan.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 25, 2019)

Very nice!


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