# Help me out - control rooms



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2017)

Working on a private HS, new 450 seat theatre. I showed an enclosed lighting control room for two positions - lights and dm or whatever - and open for sound. Architect thinks both should be open because he doesn't like asymmetrical look.

Do you think lighting control should be enclosed?


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## RonHebbard (Dec 5, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Working on a private HS, new 450 seat theatre. I showed an enclosed lighting control room for two positions - lights and dm or whatever - and open for sound. Architect thinks both should be open because he doesn't like asymmetrical look.
> 
> Do you think lighting control should be enclosed?


 @BillConnerFASTC A few comments: Having an enclosed booth, at least one capable of being open or closed, is useful in many situations for instance: When having to train a guest / replacement / standby operator. When director's wish to visit and observe over the course of a run without a cast's knowledge until performance's end. When you need to add a noisy spotlight for the mayor or President Trump's visit. If there's space and budget, and SYMMETRY IS IMPORTANT, why not bounce this notion off her / him?
Enclosed booth / Open booth centred / Enclosed booth.
Possible uses:
SFX production or simultaneous translation. Live mix reinforcement in the centred open booth. LX in the second closed booth. Keep the open booth shallower (US - DS) and place a follow spot or two in an enclosed booth behind the live mix position and shooting over the live mix operator's head. Tuck an SM in along the way. Not an economy project but SYMMETRICAL and workable. At that point you'd possibly learn how important symmetry is to your architect. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## chausman (Dec 5, 2017)

Open potentially means more gear to keep secured and I usually end up talking more on coms or in person. Compared to sound, which generally has to listen to what's going on on stage and doesn't talk as much (in my experience).

Keeping it closed can make balancing lighting for seeing scripts/consoles and seeing through glass to the stage problematic. I don't think I've ever been in a booth with windows that it was easy to see everything on stage in darker scenes due to reflections.

Given the option, I think I'd rather have it closed so that there is somewhere more separated from the house to talk if need be.


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## seanandkate (Dec 5, 2017)

The best open / closed hybrid booths I have used have the capability of being closed, but have drop out windows that allow for open live mixing from the booth when necessary and can still keep gear secured in a normal closed configuration.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2017)

Security is handled that because of existing construction the control area is nearly a floor above seating (so stairs/elevator existing).

So simply a question of is it necessary to enclose lighting op and possibly sm for chatter.

I am thinking about exactly what you suggest Ron - two enclosed rooms flanking a center sound control area. Probably wide sound area - 15' or so - and reverse wedge enclosed rooms - 10-12' facing stage. Thought about sound racks in one of enclosed rooms. Maybe lighting rack too (network switch and patch).


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## RonHebbard (Dec 6, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Security is handled that because of existing construction the control area is nearly a floor above seating (so stairs/elevator existing).
> 
> So simply a question of is it necessary to enclose lighting op and possibly sm for chatter.
> 
> I am thinking about exactly what you suggest Ron - two enclosed rooms flanking a center sound control area. Probably wide sound area - 15' or so - and reverse wedge enclosed rooms - 10-12' facing stage. Thought about sound racks in one of enclosed rooms. Maybe lighting rack too (network switch and patch).


@BillConnerFASTC Most times I've been involved with this sort of configuration, the booths have been a floor above the rear rows of the balconies in venues with only a single balcony. Dimmers have been in a rack room beyond the prosc' and in a room three or four stories up adjacent to a wardrobe or costume storage room thus not contributing noise to the audience or performance portions of the building. Likewise amplifier racks were at the second dressing room level one story above stage level. Racks in booths were limited to a lighting control rack, definitely sans dimmers, with a mic and line level patch rack also housing the head-end of the stereo and mono production monitor system. Because of physical convenience in at least two venues, a rack housing the FOH recall chimes, lobby amp, 'God mic' and booth monitor amps was housed in one of the spot booths on both ends of the symmetrical suite. In at least two theatres, amplifiers and associated electronics for facility wide monitor and paging were in the SM's office next to star dressing rooms at stage level off SR. In general, noisy items requiring HVAC were backstage above deck level and beyond the side walls of the stage. Equipment racks operating more or less silently were permitted within booth areas only when it made good sense and was not an impediment to a happy booth life. One theatre contained _fourteen_ (*14!*) booths spread over 6 elevations [Courtesy of several of your FASTC brethren from a rock in New York] The venue reminded me of 'Fiddler On The Roof' "with one more leading nowhere just for show" but I had to admit they had ALL their foreseeable options covered including at least 3 dedicated projection booths in case you wanted to front project full width scenes prosc' to prosc' from Pani's in booths between the 2nd and 3rd balconies with a larger booth on the CL and smaller booths on each 1/4 line PLUS a fourth projection booth on the CL at a higher elevation exclusively for the projection of 'Surtitles'.
Thanks @BillConnerFASTC for sparking my jaunts down memory lane.
*Edit 1:* Miscounted the booth elevations.
*Edit 2: *Forgot the dedicated 'Surtitle' booth.
*Toodleoo!*
Ron Hebbard.


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## Skervald (Dec 6, 2017)

I like to keep SM and lighting op enclosed whenever possible. If the two are in the same enclosed booth, they can speak at a normal level and the lighting op doesn't need a com. I also find it's extremely useful to have an enclosed space to deal with a crisis in the middle of a performance. So to clearly answer your original question: No, an enclosed space is not absolutely necessary but it is extremely useful. If I were building from the ground up, I would definitely include one. (or two!)


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## Scarrgo (Dec 6, 2017)

My .02¢, open for sound in middle...and closed with windows that can open(a little or a lot) as needed on either side... 

Sean...


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## Aaron Clarke (Dec 6, 2017)

In my novice and especially HS years I never cared much for being behind glass when running lights. Typically shows were not 'formally' called and my own senses had to make up for a lot. Seeing and hearing what is happening on stage even in a blackout was important and glass always impeded that. This was especially the case during tech. If they have a quality program with skilled people that follow the basics in running a show I wouldn't object to it at all. My preference would be for some type of option to have the glass open. My HS had sliding showcase style windows and it was nice to have the option of partially to half open and if we really needed it open the panels just lifted out.


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## SteveB (Dec 6, 2017)

I prefer lights in a booth, audio in the open. Easier to get a nap in between lighting cues when the audience isn't observing everything you do.

That said, our control locations are open, at the rear of the orchestral seating. No choice as the alternative was the enclosed booth 5 flights up with no view or ability to hear what's in the house. Thus audio moved and lighting followed to a position behind the rear orchestra where we removed 2 rows of seats. We built nice wood console positions with lids that get removed and can secure the positions. 

The operators just have to remember to speak softly on headset. 

Our new space (220 seat proscenium) has audio and lighting in a booth with badly designed windows. If live audio needs to get mixed, the last 2 rows of seats can move and there's a set of complete audio system connections in the floor.


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 6, 2017)

Open/Closed/Open.

Put sound nearest center in one open, and followspots at the ends -- assuming they're quiet enough. Lights and SM can go in the middle.

Being off center a little shouldn't be fatal for sound, since in a wide room, you have no business mixing in stereo anyway.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 7, 2017)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Open/Closed/Open.
> 
> Put sound nearest center in one open, and followspots at the ends -- assuming they're quiet enough. Lights and SM can go in the middle.
> 
> Being off center a little shouldn't be fatal for sound, since in a wide room, you have no business mixing in stereo anyway.


 @Jay Ashworth Possibly we need to steer our thinking back to @BillConnerFASTC 's original problem / query: Dealing with his architect who's priority is SYMMETRY. We're veering off-topic into sensibilities, practicalities and common sense (By no means bad concerns) but we are straying from Mr. Conner's original query. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard. 
[The reigning king of TLDR topic swerves and 'The pot calling the kettle black']


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 7, 2017)

I should not have mentioned the symmetry because it's about being challenged about the need for an enclosed control room in a HS theatre for acoustic reasons, not security. It just seems obvious to me that light board ops do talk on come and especially in a small room it is disturbing to the audience. I suppose it's relevant that this is a live, reverberant room, supportive of natural acoustics, so probably everyone would hear even whispering.


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## MNicolai (Dec 7, 2017)

I might be in the minority here, but I've never been a fan of windows in control booths except for security when there's an audience-level walkway directly in front of the booth. Almost always too much glare off of the glass.

I'm used to running lighting and sound from an FOH mix position and have become accustomed to talking quietly on headset. If you're on headset and an audience member is 10' away from you, you should be able to fully communicate with anyone else on headset without disturbing that audience member.

If a booth has hard floors/walls, once you open up one pane you might as well have all the panes removed because once you introduce that flanking path the rest of the panes have minimal effect on knocking down noise levels unless you have partitions or dividers segregating each work area.

I typically recommend carpet on the floor, drop-tile ceiling or Tectum on an open deck, and 1" or 2" absorber panels spread around on the walls to knock down extraneous noise exiting the booth through the windows into the theater. Whether that's cutting down footsteps, chatter, clacking of keyboards, or followspot fan noise.


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## gafftaper (Dec 10, 2017)

In a school you need to deal with training techs and kids that talk. Therefore you need a closed area for lights and stage manager (and probably a teacher). I have room for 5 people in my booth and often wish there was room for more... (assistant student director anyone?). And they all talk. My booth has large sliding windows and I wish there was a way to close off the sound side.


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## Footer (Dec 10, 2017)

I like everything to be open... and I want to be as close to the audience with both as possible. Open air is always best in my world. When I taught I always wanted the students to be in the room with me and be seeing what the audience is seeing. 

One booth configuration I liked though IF you must go booth... put a glass sliding wall in like this:

https://goo.gl/images/7nt2jy


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## seanandkate (Dec 10, 2017)

Footer said:


> I like everything to be open... and I want to be as close to the audience with both as possible. Open air is always best in my world. When I taught I always wanted the students to be in the room with me and be seeing what the audience is seeing.
> 
> One booth configuration I liked though IF you must go booth... put a glass sliding wall in like this:
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/7nt2jy



What's the price on that with the full beach view package?


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## samtech26 (Dec 11, 2017)

I prefer a closed space for lighting unless you can be far from any audience members. Most sound folks prefer to be in the open where they can clearly hear what the audience hears. My picture shows our local HS auditiorium seating 1300. Both control positions are open at the back of the house with seats rignt in front of the consoles. I've had audience members stand up and shush me during orchestra concerts while talking on the com as a board op. In a local theater space, the control positions are in a booth in the back of a raked (stadium style) seating area with sliding windows on the lighting side. For many productions, sound sets up ouside of the booth even though the sound booth (separated by a wall with a passthrough from lights) is open to the hall on the front.


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## venuetech (Dec 11, 2017)

I have long ago move both lighting and sound to a control Bay at the back of the house. We have a booth that is used by the SM when calling shows. To have both would entail a lot of stair climbing as the booth is up one flight.
If the booth was on the same level as the back of the house I might reconsider. 
I do feel that having them together in close proximity is a huge advantage. As is they were separated I would spend much time scurrying back and forth.
Chatter is really not a problem, by the time tech is done most of the yelling and screaming is over. (apart from the SM in the booth) The bay is small, more than 4 is very crowded. At one point I had audio at the extreme right. This left a 4or5 foot space between the stations. Often that space rapidly filled with many unnecessary persons who did not really need to be there and interfered with operations. Now I just have lighting and sound right next to each other, the extra space is still there but you must make your way around the sound op to get to it.


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## RickR (Dec 11, 2017)

I have a similar project on the boards right now. We have a sound 'porch' and enclosed lighting. Seats right in front!! Fortunately the architect realizes the audience is looking the other way so isn't pushing symmetry on the booths.

Students will talk, panic and need help. One curious thing came up, real time translation for the audience. Someone nearby did it and the school loved it. So where to put someone who talks *constantly*?


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## jtweigandt (Dec 11, 2017)

Architects who favor symmetry over functionality might need to be reminded that their first duty is to make a functional facility, Their second duty is to build a monument to themselves


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## RonHebbard (Dec 11, 2017)

RickR said:


> I have a similar project on the boards right now. We have a sound 'porch' and enclosed lighting. Seats right in front!! Fortunately the architect realizes the audience is looking the other way so isn't pushing symmetry on the booths.
> 
> Students will talk, panic and need help. *One curious thing* came up, *real time translation* for the audience. Someone nearby did it and the school loved it. So where to put someone who talks *constantly*?


 @RickR I realize what you're saying but it's not "curious" at all and why one of the FOURTEEN (14) booths in a nearby purpose built opera and ballet space is one entire booth devoted exclusively to simultaneous translation(s). Dependent upon the specific performance and production, they're doing simultaneous translation for radio &/or television broadcasts as well as patrons within their auditorium. [Think verbal descriptions for blind patrons in addition to routine interpretations of foreign language operas for blind viewers at home unable to read Surtitles] 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## MNicolai (Dec 11, 2017)

jtweigandt said:


> Architects who favor symmetry over functionality might need to be reminded that their first duty is to make a functional facility, Their second duty is to build a monument to themselves


The look of a venue is a front porch. If the front porch is unattractive, you could get mixed responses from audiences/users/stakeholders. It could color their general impression of the events that take place there. It can also depress their interest to contribute donations or attend events.

The whole business model isn't going to collapse because a window got put into an opening on House Left and the opening on House Right was left empty, but if you make something stand out like a sore thumb and throw all of the project weight behind functionality over form, it does have a consequence on the impression it leaves with patrons, parents, and the community.

FWIW, good ideas that aren't blended with architecture tend to be the first or second to get VE'd. They are easier to single out as specialty, luxury features than something that looks like it was supposed to be that way all along.


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## jtweigandt (Dec 11, 2017)

That said, I prefer to work in the open booth, having done both.. I mostly do lighting. Yes I'm a dedicated amateur, but have worked at the schools and a small barn with closed booth as well. At the main venue 500 seat or so, we have a Central wide window for lights on the second floor with 2 enclosed spotlight bays on either side. it is open, and not at all a problem for quiet comm with the carpeting and acoustic tile on the ceiling. Sound is directly in front of us on an open "porch" dropped down a step so we see over their heads. The whole shebang is symetrical and functional. They can lean on us for comm if a mic head needs replacing etc, or other need arises, just by turning around and quietly talking. We all sit about 10 feet above the audience. Before we had the porch, lights and sound worked side by side, but even the window opening restricted the ability to hear what is really happening. They're lots happier with the porch.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 11, 2017)

These are mixed porch metaphors correct? Last two posts.


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## Van (Dec 11, 2017)

I liked this booth I saw once. It looked a lot like the front end of a Cobra Gunship. The Sound guys were down and forward of the lighting controls. the booth sat right over the center, back entrance into the room. so the floor of the sound booth was only 10-12 feet off the floor of the auditorium. they had window that could be opened up. The Lighting control deck was about 6-7 feet high and about 10-12 feet further back. could see the whole stage but any sound they made was bounced down to the floor by the sloped glass front. of the booth. Really cool design I thought.


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## MNicolai (Dec 11, 2017)

Yup.

I was referring to a metaphor the athletic director at my hometown’s high school has used over the years. Actually was quoted on just last week:


> Former Oconomowoc athletics director Scott Raduka once called athletics a “front porch” for schools. The analogy goes like this: Athletics may not be the substantive portion of the house, but it’s still the thing people see from the outside, and a tidy front porch lends a strong impression to the overall house.
> 
> As marketing and fundraising become more and more important for school districts, that becomes increasingly important to note.


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## Scarrgo (Dec 11, 2017)

Van said:


> I liked this booth I saw once. It looked a lot like the front end of a Cobra Gunship. The Sound guys were down and forward of the lighting controls. the booth sat right over the center, back entrance into the room. so the floor of the sound booth was only 10-12 feet off the floor of the auditorium. they had window that could be opened up. The Lighting control deck was about 6-7 feet high and about 10-12 feet further back. could see the whole stage but any sound they made was bounced down to the floor by the sloped glass front. of the booth. Really cool design I thought.



Its funny, I was thinking about a venue like that, stopped by there while on tour, it was a college I think, thought the booth was really cool....wish I could remember that place...

One thing I remember about that place, 400 amp switch, but the breaker in the basement that feed it was only a 200...oops, I turned that breaker back into sand...

sorry for the left turn, back to your regular scheduled topic... 
Sean...
edit: added bad story memories...


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 11, 2017)

You should see the Wilow Creek control - two rows - probably 10 positions each - at back of msin floor - and a spiral to racks and video control below.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 12, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> *You should see* the Willow Creek control - two rows - probably 10 positions each - at back of main floor - and a spiral to racks and video control below.


 @BillConnerFASTC Could you / would you post pictures please. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 12, 2017)

Too long ago and pre cell phone and digital cameras for me.


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## Van (Dec 12, 2017)

Scarrgo said:


> Its funny, I was thinking about a venue like that, stopped by there while on tour, it was a college I think, thought the booth was really cool....wish I could remember that place...
> 
> One thing I remember about that place, 400 amp switch, but the breaker in the basement that feed it was only a 200...oops, I turned that breaker back into sand...
> 
> ...


The Place I was thinking of was the "new" arts facility built in Jenks, Oklahoma in 1982-83. State of the art at the time. The back of the house had two rounded walls that spun around to seating or spun back to face the lobby where they were used as lecture halls. Pretty snazzy for the 80's... God I'm old.


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## taneglaus (Dec 13, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Working on a private HS, new 450 seat theatre. I showed an enclosed lighting control room for two positions - lights and dm or whatever - and open for sound. Architect thinks both should be open because he doesn't like asymmetrical look.
> 
> Do you think lighting control should be enclosed?


I worked in a 2,800 seat balcony HS on stage crew. Everything was originally enclosed...even sound. They upgraded the sound & lightng systems & Put the new sound position about 5 rows in front of the existing enclosed booths. Your symatry. But lighting, follow spots, & massive film projector behind glass. It worked very well.


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## rwhealey (Dec 13, 2017)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Being off center a little shouldn't be fatal for sound, since in a wide room, you have no business mixing in stereo anyway.



The preferred location for the FOH sound booth is not on center - most acoustics texts have you place it 1/3 of the way in from one wall. If there are going to be acoustical problems or sound system comb filtering issues, they're most likely to occur on center in a symmetrical room. 

+1 on the "Stereo" - very few auditoriums have a real stereo system. It's more like an L/R dual mono with plenty of interference in the middle. Even if you get a system designed so that the level difference between left and right at each seat is minimal (one of the requirements of stereo imaging), the distance (time) difference between sides blows up the stereo effect for any seats not near the center of the auditorium.


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## EWCguy (Dec 13, 2017)

We have a single booth about 12' above the audience. I pulled the windows out because 1) I couldn't hear to do audio, 2) I couldn't see because of the glare, 3) the fire-safety glass with diagonal wires inside blocked our wireless signals (before I mounted antennae outside the booth). I still have to take the flight of stairs down to the house level to really know what's going on with sound. Grr. Our spot booths are located above back of house right and left exit doors, quite open for fan noise to permeate the seating area. Sigh.


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## Craig Hauber (Dec 13, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Working on a private HS, new 450 seat theatre. I showed an enclosed lighting control room for two positions - lights and dm or whatever - and open for sound. Architect thinks both should be open because he doesn't like asymmetrical look.
> 
> Do you think lighting control should be enclosed?


Let the architect have his symmetry, -but bill their firm every show for the seating lost by FOH being set up in the house!

(-In a perfect world, Architects would simply read this forum and ask questions of all of us that have to use their designs.)


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## SteveB (Dec 13, 2017)

rwhealey said:


> The preferred location for the FOH sound booth is not on center - most acoustics texts have you place it 1/3 of the way in from one wall. If there are going to be acoustical problems or sound system comb filtering issues, they're most likely to occur on center in a symmetrical room.
> 
> +1 on the "Stereo" - very few auditoriums have a real stereo system. It's more like an L/R dual mono with plenty of interference in the middle. Even if you get a system designed so that the level difference between left and right at each seat is minimal (one of the requirements of stereo imaging), the distance (time) difference between sides blows up the stereo effect for any seats not near the center of the auditorium.



That’s a puzzlement. How do you balance a stereo mix if you’re not on center ?.


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## MNicolai (Dec 13, 2017)

SteveB said:


> That’s a puzzlement. How do you balance a stereo mix if you’re not on center ?.



You don't.

Sound systems aren't usually designed to give an equal amount of Left and an equal amount of Right to every seat in the house, at the same moment in time and at the same SPL level, no matter which seat you're in.

Being able to send an L/R, or L/C/R or L/C/R/FF/FL/FR/S mix to a system is great for balancing, blending, and theatrical sound effects, but unless the room is shaped like a shoe box and designed like a cinema, if you hard pan something to the left a whole lot of people aren't going to hear it, and if they can hear it, it's not going to be how you hear it from your sweet spot at the center of the room.

The best wisdom for doing something a little different in the Left and Right mixes, especially if you have L/R subs, is that if you send a little different mix to each side, you make a good effort toward nullifying weird comb filtering.


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## David Ashton (Dec 13, 2017)

I totally hate enclosed control rooms with glass distorting my view, even worse with double glazing, I have removed glass from so many, although they were for sound as well. As for architects, I had to fight one who wanted the booth behind stage as he thought that with modern AV it could be run off a tv monitor and got very upset when the school made him spoil his vision of the high foyer with an ugly control room.


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## AudJ (Dec 14, 2017)

As much as I don’t like an open booth for lights, I have one in our school. Lights and sound share a booth, in a huge auditorium. It has a door on the side and a 9’x5’ opening in front. The way the seats are arranged, there are about 15 or so seats that might be affected by the talking. This only works because the room is large.

Lately, it seems like the booth students’ parents/guests tend to sit in those seats. They like to hear/watch their kids’ “performance” instead of the show. After all, between learning the tech and protocols, these kids spent an awful lot of time preparing, and they are in a black room where nobody can see. I love catching a Facebook shot of kids running cues in the booth from a proud parent.


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## rwhealey (Dec 14, 2017)

SteveB said:


> That’s a puzzlement. How do you balance a stereo mix if you’re not on center ?.



If you have a poorly designed stereo system (like most), your "stereo" mix is only a good mix where you are sitting, and likely 2-3 seats in a straight line front-to-back from your mixing position. The rest of the seats will get a poor rendition of your mix, and some of the seats off to the sides of the auditorium will only get your right channel or your left channel. If you have a well designed stereo system, your mix would be good at most seats, even if you aren't mixing from the middle since each seat should have similar coverage. Note that in wide rooms, it's basically impossible to design a good stereo system without using tricks like L-R-L-R that are of questionable validity, at best.

My design philosophy is to provide a good center cluster or exploded mono system that has even coverage to each seat. If the budget allows and the space is used for drama, I think about adding L-R "effects speakers" that don't provide true stereo coverage but do let you hard-pan effects. Then, in a professional setting or an advanced educational setting, and budget allowing, I move to a true L-C-R where each cluster attempts to cover each seat at approximately the same level and the same time.

Sometimes clients demand a L-R mono "stereo" system. I don't think this is out of total ignorance since they are thinking about the expensive stereo at home, but it can be difficult to convince people that what works at home doesn't scale up to an auditorium.


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## SteveB (Dec 14, 2017)

rwhealey said:


> If you have a poorly designed stereo system (like most), your "stereo" mix is only a good mix where you are sitting, and likely 2-3 seats in a straight line front-to-back from your mixing position. The rest of the seats will get a poor rendition of your mix, and some of the seats off to the sides of the auditorium will only get your right channel or your left channel. If you have a well designed stereo system, your mix would be good at most seats, even if you aren't mixing from the middle since each seat should have similar coverage. Note that in wide rooms, it's basically impossible to design a good stereo system without using tricks like L-R-L-R that are of questionable validity, at best.
> 
> My design philosophy is to provide a good center cluster or exploded mono system that has even coverage to each seat. If the budget allows and the space is used for drama, I think about adding L-R "effects speakers" that don't provide true stereo coverage but do let you hard-pan effects. Then, in a professional setting or an advanced educational setting, and budget allowing, I move to a true L-C-R where each cluster attempts to cover each seat at approximately the same level and the same time.
> 
> Sometimes clients demand a L-R mono "stereo" system. I don't think this is out of total ignorance since they are thinking about the expensive stereo at home, but it can be difficult to convince people that what works at home doesn't scale up to an auditorium.



Always good to learn something, thx


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## TimMc (Dec 15, 2017)

RickR said:


> I have a similar project on the boards right now. We have a sound 'porch' and enclosed lighting. Seats right in front!! Fortunately the architect realizes the audience is looking the other way so isn't pushing symmetry on the booths.
> 
> Students will talk, panic and need help. One curious thing came up, real time translation for the audience. Someone nearby did it and the school loved it. So where to put someone who talks *constantly*?


You put simultaneous translation in a booth, and it doens't need to have line of site - a video feed will probably do. Give translators a correct script (cuts, repeats, etc), a decent dialog feed and at least 1 rehearsal before dress...


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## TheaterEd (Dec 15, 2017)

I personally have the windows out during the design phase, and they get put in for the run of the show. Kid's whisper loudly... Also, the VAST majority of events in my auditorium are not traditional rehearsed shows, so when I'm busking for live events it's often helpful to be able to just talk to my board ops. We have three windows per desk, generally one is open and two are closed.

One other reason why I love my windows... the people who sit in the back of the aud for most things are the ones that are going to talk during the presentation, so being able to close the window so that I can still do my job is great. (I'm looking at you talent show dads.....) I used to work in a space with seats behind the sound desk and that was the worst for me. I can't stand having an audience behind me when I'm running sound. I'm sure @Amy Frank knows the struggle, but I can't speak to whether or not she shares my disdain.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2017)

This has mostly been limited to sound and light ops, but does no one ever put the SM front of house? I found that common when active in production.


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## Amy Frank (Dec 15, 2017)

TheaterEd said:


> I'm sure @Amy Frank knows the struggle, but I can't speak to whether or not she shares my disdain.



Disdain - you’re so polite. I hate it! Not only can people see me playing solitaire or trolling Facebook (which i rarely do!) but I just a creepy feeling to have people behind you.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2017)

I appreciate the "creepy feeling" factor but especially with a balcony, it seems wrong to put the in house mix location under the balcony. (And sound system designers say don't do that.) And simply not putting seats in that section just means other seats are further away form the stage - I think a much worse consequence.


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## soundtech193746 (Dec 15, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Working on a private HS, new 450 seat theatre. I showed an enclosed lighting control room for two positions - lights and dm or whatever - and open for sound. Architect thinks both should be open because he doesn't like asymmetrical look.
> 
> Do you think lighting control should be enclosed?


Speaking from purely a skeptical mind, I would want the lights to be enclosed to prevent vandalism, after all, It's a high school  Anyways, I always prefer open for both sound and lights. Open Lights booth is easier since communication is a tad bit easier. Sound always has to be open. Some high schools I've worked in have lights upstairs somewhat enclosed and sound at ground level in a booth normally. Hope this goes well!


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## RonHebbard (Dec 15, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> I appreciate the "creepy feeling" factor but especially with a balcony, it seems wrong to put the in house mix location under the balcony. (And sound system designers say don't do that.) And simply not putting seats in that section just means other seats are further away form the stage - I think a much worse consequence.


 @BillConnerFASTC *Speaking ONLY to the "creepy feeling" factor:* I was often made to feel "creepy" while seated in my enclosed booth at the rear of the Stratford Shakespearean Festival's main stage balcony. Patron's seated in the last row of the balcony, especially during student matinees, would often "cuddle", (to be polite) then appear stunned when they stood at intermission only to find me seated in my booth immediately above and behind them. Looking down to the stage from my operating position I often felt like a voyeur while merely viewing the stage and trying not to snicker or be distracted. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## jtweigandt (Dec 16, 2017)

RickR said:


> I have a similar project on the boards right now. We have a sound 'porch' and enclosed lighting. Seats right in front!! Fortunately the architect realizes the audience is looking the other way so isn't pushing symmetry on the booths.
> 
> Students will talk, panic and need help. One curious thing came up, real time translation for the audience. Someone nearby did it and the school loved it. So where to put someone who talks *constantly*?




We have audio interp for the blind. Currently put the interp guy on a hi def video monitor in a loft off stage right.. he can see the video and he can see the stage from the side. They also make microphones that are like a fighter pilot mask for this purpose if they have to be somewhere more exposed.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 16, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> felt like a voyeur


???


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## RonHebbard (Dec 16, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> ???


 @BillConnerFASTC 
The situation made me feel uncomfortable since I needed to keep an eye on the stage and the rear row cuddling couple were right there in front of me oblivious to anyone being behind and slightly above them until they stood up at interval to find themselves looking through the glass straight at me. That was decades ago, around 1977 - '78 when I first went to Stratford. As I recall, I believe the clearly embarrassed couple blushed, smiled and exchanged nods with me prior to departing. 
Head of Sound is an IA 357 position. Resident voyeur is neither a staff nor IA position. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 16, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @BillConnerFASTC
> The situation made me feel uncomfortable since I needed to keep an eye on the stage and the rear row cuddling couple were right there in front of me oblivious to anyone being behind and slightly above them until they stood up at interval to find themselves looking through the glass straight at me. That was decades ago, around 1977 - '78 when I first went to Stratford. As I recall, I believe the clearly embarrassed couple blushed, smiled and exchanged nods with me prior to departing.
> Head of Sound is an IA 357 position. Resident voyeur is neither a staff nor IA position.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.


I was just questioning if you were just "feeling" like a voyeur or actually behaving like one.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 16, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> *I was just questioning if you were just "feeling" like a voyeur or actually behaving like one.*


 @BillConnerFASTC *Tough call,* _tough call indeed_. In those years the LX operator had a separate window with the access stairs from the balcony lobby entering directly into his booth while my side was separated from Alec's side by a door. During pre-performance production weeks I'd close my door to keep the sounds of my producing open reel recordings from disturbing LX while setting LXQ's. Similarly, if I desired comparatively bright task lighting to do precise razor blade edits, splicing and labelling, I'd keep my door closed and window masked to minimize disruptive spill into his booth and / or the thrust auditorium. We'd each holler to the other if anything particularly "interesting" were to occur outside our windows if we thought the other may be otherwise occupied and / or if our window afforded a better perspective. *Were we voyeurs?* We never considered ourselves thus. _Were we made to feel like voyeurs,_ *possibly*. 'There's never a good voyeur around when you need one' comes to mind. Booth brethren, booth bunnies, denizen's of the booths. Who know's what we're thinking and / or what we think. Welcome to our world of theatre brother Bill. @GreyWyvern What say you?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## NOM115 (Apr 7, 2018)

@BillConnerFASTC This reply is probably too late but figure I'd post it anyway. I'm a volunteer parent at my daughter's HS and new to the forum. The auditorium there has a closed booth that has a good size sliding window that is also removable that opens it up a little during performances. Being at a HS the thing to keep in mind is that you will be dealing with HS Students that have the tendency to mess around with things, including the boards. We find the auditorium/house left unlocked a lot because of the number of people who use it. So, security for the booth would probably be a good thing, so that students will only have access while supervised.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 7, 2018)

I get that. We always have an easy to use system to secure gear - at least keeping honest people honest.

My original post - we went to a wide and open sound control area center - on a mezzanine - flanked by two enclosed rooms. One may have amp rack. The other will be available for lighting and sm.


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