# ETC Announces the ColorSource PAR, a low(er) budget LED



## TuckerD (Oct 7, 2014)

ETC Announced a new LED line yesterday. It's pretty cool, it's got fewer colors (4) so the color gamut is probably (certainly) different. But they should also be cheaper and be built like an ETC fixture. 

http://www.etcconnect.com/About/News/ETC-adds-budget-friendly-ColorSource-PAR-to-its-LED-lineup.aspx


----------



## Scenemaster60 (Oct 7, 2014)

Has anyone heard what the MSRP will be on these? I'll be very curious to read reviews as people begin to use them!


----------



## StradivariusBone (Oct 8, 2014)

It's got lime LED's instead of amber. I can't find any other specs though. I've been looking for something to begin building for downlight, I wonder how bright these suckers are.


----------



## Amiers (Oct 8, 2014)

I wish these would of been out when I was in the process of getting led fixtures.


----------



## robmerow (Oct 8, 2014)

Finally an LED par product by ETC with pre-mixed color. I love the D40's for area light, but always hate them for anything that the audience can see the lens... all the little colored pixels look so unnatural.


----------



## ccrews (Oct 9, 2014)

The ETC app sheet says D40 accessories will work with this fixture, so I a theorizing a less expensive D40. The body looks to be the same shape. Perhaps a polymer body, and yoke? Both appear to have a pretty extreme texture in the photos I have seen, unlike the D 40.


----------



## Chris Chapman (Oct 13, 2014)

Scenemaster60 said:


> Has anyone heard what the MSRP will be on these? I'll be very curious to read reviews as people begin to use them!


My local rep is saying $700. Low(er) price is right. Not quite the lower price I was expecting.


----------



## techieman33 (Oct 13, 2014)

Chris Chapman said:


> My local rep is saying $700. Low(er) price is right. Not quite the lower price I was expecting.



While I think that would be to high, it's not that surprising. The rest of their LED line is overpriced IMO. Unless this new fixture is a lot brighter than I expect it to be, I think it would have to be in the $500 range to be competitive. I also don't like that they're going to add lime when the light thinks I need it. Sorry, but that will turn off most lighting designers who will want to decide that for themselves.


----------



## Scenemaster60 (Oct 13, 2014)

I would agree with techieman that the $500 range is where I would start to get interested in this fixture. 

This idea of the addition of lime is a curious one. I wonder if it works a little bit like the fact that under a lot of stage lighting conditions, a pale green gel actually reads more as straw than as green?

And because someone needs to make the bad pun - I guess the "limelight" is back!


----------



## SteveB (Oct 13, 2014)

Scenemaster60 said:


> I would agree with techieman that the $500 range is where I would start to get interested in this fixture.
> 
> This idea of the addition of lime is a curious one. I wonder if it works a little bit like the fact that under a lot of stage lighting conditions, a pale green gel actually reads more as straw than as green?
> 
> And because someone needs to make the bad pun - I guess the "limelight" is back!



Having seen the ETC Layers of Light demo I can state that the lime green, as used on the Lustr series 2 ellipsoidal engines, allowed the fixture to about perfectly match to an incandescent S4 @ 575 watts. So I understand the application, if not the science.


----------



## ccrews (Oct 13, 2014)

The Retail is in the $795 range iirc from this morning speaking to a rep. So street price will be less than retail, especially in quantity.


----------



## rphilip (Oct 13, 2014)

Is there any info yet on how this compare in brightness to a D40?

Thanks

Philip


----------



## StradivariusBone (Oct 14, 2014)

I'm guessing it will have the same options as far as optics goes as the D40?


----------



## RickR (Oct 20, 2014)

New PRELIMINARY data sheet online - http://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Lighting-Fixtures/ColorSource/ColorSource-PAR/Documentation.aspx - doesn't say much - many XX for numbers like wattage and beams.

No photometrics yet!


----------



## TuckerD (Oct 23, 2014)

No photometric yet. Bummer.

Someone posted about these possibly having a plastic body. According to the spec these have a die cast body and are all metal. They should be durable.


rphilip said:


> Is there any info yet on how this compare in brightness to a D40?
> Philip



These have 40 Luxeon Z emitters which are slightly dimmer than the Luxeon Rebels in the D40. But only very slightly. You also have to consider the optical efficiency of the fixtures. All in all I think they are probably pretty comparable.

When I saw them IRL they seemed very similar and I liked that the ColorSource had homogenized optics. They are pretty cool and while they aren't cheap, they are cheaper and they are (IMO) much better than other 4 color fixtures + they have a much better dimming curve.



SteveB said:


> Scenemaster60 said:
> 
> 
> > I would agree with techieman that the $500 range is where I would start to get interested in this fixture.
> ...



Steve is right. The lime gives the fixtures a significantly better white look and allow them to match colors from your gel swatch better. If you look at the spectrums of the LEDs' you see that the limes fill in a pretty big part of what is otherwise missing with "white" LEDs.

At full power (without any calibration an fancy dimming stuff) the light appears to be a decent white. Not too pink, not too blue. The limes are a major contributing factor for this. Then you add in all of the calibration and other magic and you have an LED fixture that can actually make white.


----------



## rphilip (Oct 23, 2014)

TuckerD said:


> These have 40 Luxeon Z emitters which are slightly dimmer than the Luxeon Rebels in the D40. But only very slightly. You also have to consider the optical efficiency of the fixtures. All in all I think they are probably pretty comparable.
> 
> When I saw them IRL they seemed very similar and I liked that the ColorSource had homogenized optics. They are pretty cool and while they aren't cheap, they are cheaper and they are (IMO) much better than other 4 color fixtures + they have a much better dimming curve.



How do you come up with 40 LED emitters? 7 optics x 4 colors is 28.


----------



## TuckerD (Oct 23, 2014)

There are 8 optics. 8 * 4 = 32. The spec sheet from ETC says 40 which means there is an extra one under each optic. It's red, which makes sense because the luxeon z reds are a little less bright that the other luxeon z colors. 32 + 8 = 40. 

Also that's what the spec sheet says. (With the exception of the red bit).


----------



## RickR (Oct 25, 2014)

I just had some ETC folks tell me that they are brighter than a D40! This is the magic of the lime LED.

And I will hold that thought with reserve until my eyes confirm. It's a new world folks, the old rules don't always apply.


----------



## techieman33 (Oct 25, 2014)

RickR said:


> I just had some ETC folks tell me that they are brighter than a D40! This is the magic of the lime LED.
> 
> And I will hold that thought with reserve until my eyes confirm. It's a new world folks, the old rules don't always apply.



It's easily possible, and not just because of "lime." The technology in the D40 is at least 5 years old, that's an eternity in the LED market.


----------



## RickR (Oct 25, 2014)

There is also the fact that LEDs can be driven differently. Life will depend on the cooling more than the brightness. One big distinction is that the Color Source are fan cooled, D40's are not.


----------



## jglodeklights (Oct 26, 2014)

Service life of the emitters in the Colorsource PAR is only 20,000 hours, versus 50,000 for Selador Classic and Desire. That's a rather large difference. Probably not just down to the less expensive emitter, but also driving them harder to get the brightness.


----------



## NickVon (Oct 28, 2014)

Barbizon email that I got forwarded from a buddy states list price at 750$ Which seems super reasonable.


----------



## RickR (Oct 31, 2014)

The architectural market has pretty much decided that emitter life has little to do with fixture life. Other elements will go first...


----------



## gafftaper (Nov 2, 2014)

NickVon said:


> Barbizon email that I got forwarded from a buddy states list price at 750$ Which seems super reasonable.


I always figure that the average who has a good relationship with a dealer, picking up a package of half a dozen fixtures, is going to pay around 10%-15% off list. So, that would be around $650-$675. You might get down into the low 600's if you are a really good customer or buy a lot more of them at once. But I doubt anyone's going to be getting them for $500 at this point, maybe in a few more years. I wouldn't call that "super reasonable". To me super reasonable would be in the $400-$500 range. But pricing around $650-$700 is consistent with the other higher quality LED PAR's we've seen announced recently by major manufacturers. But most importantly this one is coming with the ETC logo on it, so you know it's going to last a long time and have iron clad customer service.


----------



## ccrews (Nov 18, 2014)

Video is up.


----------



## Scenemaster60 (Nov 18, 2014)

Interesting. A lot of hype. Not much real information. If I wanted to sleep with the guy in the video I'd buy one RIGHT NOW. However, he's not my type and he's in WI.


----------



## DavidNorth (Nov 19, 2014)

Scenemaster60 said:


> Interesting. A lot of hype. Not much real information. If I wanted to sleep with the guy in the video I'd buy one RIGHT NOW. However, he's not my type and he's in WI.


Good thing is that WI is not far from MN but he just got married about a month ago. 

Seriously though, what info are you looking for? Does this help? https://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737477490

Let me know,

David


----------



## TJCornish (Nov 21, 2014)

DavidNorth said:


> Seriously though, what info are you looking for? Does this help? https://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737477490
> 
> Let me know,
> 
> David


How about a release date?


----------



## emac (Nov 21, 2014)

DavidNorth said:


> Good thing is that WI is not far from MN but he just got married about a month ago.
> 
> Seriously though, what info are you looking for? Does this help? https://www.etcconnect.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=10737477490
> 
> ...




Why did you guys choose to go with a fixed yoke. and not a split yoke?

Can you do manual control at the fixture? or only set colors using the presets/sequences?


----------



## DavidNorth (Nov 24, 2014)

emac said:


> Why did you guys choose to go with a fixed yoke. and not a split yoke?
> 
> Can you do manual control at the fixture? or only set colors using the presets/sequences?


 
We are shipping a few smaller orders now until we get larger sets of parts in to manufacture them, which should be any day.

On the split-yoke, you mean the floor stand type of yoke, correct? We decided to offer an add-on accessory to act this way. This allows us to not burden the majority of users who will likely not use it with an extra piece to deal with. We also can keep the price lower as well.

At this point we are only doing presets and sequences at the fixture. However, you can snapshot dmx into presets from the back as well, if that helps for now.

Let me know if there are more questions.

Thanks!

David


----------



## rphilip (Nov 26, 2014)

How does the color gamut/range compare to the d60/d40? Aka if you sweep around the outside of the color wheel how different do they look?


----------



## Jim Uphoff (Dec 1, 2014)

rphilip said:


> How does the color gamut/range compare to the d60/d40? Aka if you sweep around the outside of the color wheel how different do they look?


The color range on a white wall will be good but will lack some of the dark blue, light blue and amber section compared to a Lustr+ or Vivid. The real difference would be on anything you light with color, where the lack of the 7 color system will result in a lower quality rendering of the objects natural colors. That being said, the palette available in the ColorSource PAR is astounding for a 4 color fixture. Not only in richness, but in balance as well. Was that enough marketing speak for you?


----------



## ShaunH (Mar 23, 2015)

Just received delivery to our venue of 12 of these fixtures. They sure are bright and the dimming is very impressive. Not entirely sold on the colour reproduction in terms of the blue scale with deeper colours and they seem a little on the green side but on the other side oranges and yellows are fantastic. Almost wish there was control of the lime processing. But all in all for the sturdy metal and solid build quality as expected they're great for price.


----------



## TuckerD (Mar 23, 2015)

That seems to confirm what J Uphoff said above. Still I think it's cool to hear what you had to say. Does your venue plan on adding more fixtures?

I think that individual control of each of the channels would be cool, similar to using HSI + 7 on a Selador fixture. I'm not a product user though (yet, one of the venues I work with is considering adding some of these fixtures) and so my opinion can't come from real experience.


----------



## ShaunH (Mar 23, 2015)

We've recently purchased as well an amount of lustr2's and some cheap slim pars to fill the order, separate control of the lime chip would make us happier at least about the colour production but the blue chips seem to be more turquoise than standard blue which can be found in the most basic led fixtures.


----------



## MikeJ (Mar 23, 2015)

ShaunH said:


> We've recently purchased as well an amount of lustr2's and some cheap slim pars to fill the order, separate control of the lime chip would make us happier at least about the colour production but the blue chips seem to be more turquoise than standard blue which can be found in the most basic led fixtures.



Out of curiosity, what model of slim pars did you get, and how do they compare to the Colorsource? What are you head to head impressions, and given that there is probably a large price difference, what do you think of each one Bang-for-the-buck?

Also, do I understand correctly that the Lime LED is automatically mixed in by the fixture, with no separate control option?


----------



## techieman33 (Mar 23, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> Out of curiosity, what model of slim pars did you get, and how do they compare to the Colorsource? What are you head to head impressions, and given that there is probably a large price difference, what do you think of each one Bang-for-the-buck?
> 
> Also, do I understand correctly that the Lime LED is automatically mixed in by the fixture, with no separate control option?



Yeah, the lime is added by the fixture itself, in the profile it's just RGB. That was a huge mistake on ETC's part IMO. Maybe there are a couple of people who would be ok with it. Must LD's I know would hate that "feature." It's all about having total control of your rig, and this takes part of that control away.


----------



## MikeJ (Mar 23, 2015)

Ironically, a few years ago Steve Terry gave a presentation at USITT, about how the limitations of LEDs are ruining our artistic choices, and Now ETC is selling LEDs that take away the designers artistic control.

Hopefully they will release a firmware update for users that want to have better control. Lime should not be affecting saturated primary colors, it is there to give Higher CRI and better efficiency in producing white, especially at warmer color temperatures. 

Martin pulled this same thing with the stage bar, It made them suck for chasing effects, when you can see the source, because you would see the individual LEDs that did not belong in single color effects. But were the colors "better"? That depends on you'r design goals.


----------



## techieman33 (Mar 23, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> Ironically, a few years ago Steve Terry gave a presentation at USITT, about how the limitations of LEDs are ruining our artistic choices, and Now ETC is selling LEDs that take away the designers artistic control.
> 
> Hopefully they will release a firmware update for users that want to have better control. Lime should not be affecting saturated primary colors, it is there to give Higher CRI and better efficiency in producing white, especially at warmer color temperatures.
> 
> Martin pulled this same thing with the stage bar, It made them suck for chasing effects, when you can see the source, because you would see the individual LEDs that did not belong in single color effects. But were the colors "better"? That depends on you'r design goals.



At least these fixtures are blended behind the lens so seeing the lime mixed into a chase shouldn't be an issue. Maybe because it's their "entry level" fixture they're intentionally taking some of that control away to push designers who want control into their higher end 7 color system?


----------



## ShaunH (Mar 24, 2015)

As a filler to our order we added some chauvet slim par tri leds which for our venue was just so we can have portable colour between the venues I work, but the blue is blue, and the green is green, with the colour sources it seems like the blue is more green than what we'd expected (as opposed to almost being UV blue) and also the green is pretty much lime as opposed to primary colours. Looking at the lenses on the units you can tell what chips are active and the lime seems to sneak in at other times when it should be just a simple rgb colour as opposed to coming in when a selected colour is on the blue and red scale. The colour production is making us seriously consider the purchase.
Mentioning the slim par tri's next to these units is laughable as the dimming is incomparable as we stuck the colour sources on a 30s fade and it was beautiful, the colour sources are brighter than the slim pars but that seems more down to the optics on the front i think as the beamspread is wider on the coloursources with higher intensity.


----------



## ccrews (Mar 24, 2015)

My facility has 25 of these coming and I will report back as soon as they get here. Hopefully with some pictures.


----------



## NickVon (Mar 24, 2015)

Please Do Ccrews, Our arts center is looking into swapping out our PAR 64 with LED's and these were high in my view for price point. I'm mostly curious as to how the reproduce R74, and R26 compared to a 1k Medium Par 64.
and how they compare to Source 4 Par, Widelens lamped at 750, with R74. I'll admit i'm not looking at LED"s for Sublties of R302 or natural light but something Punch saturated that can do a natural'ish warm or cool light moderately well if needed to.


----------



## np18358 (Mar 24, 2015)

While it doesn't come with the ETC label, and subsequently may not be supported as well, or meet riders, the Chavuet Colordash Par Hex 12 is intensely bright and the color mixing is awesome. It is an RGBAW+UV fixture, so you do get an nice amount of control in even the pastels. It outperforms any incandescent in a saturate. The Blue alone is extremely intense, and the UV is an awesome replacement for a congo blue. The combination of the two makes for a super bold (and UV reactive) wash. It is also extremely bright in the Red.


----------



## Goatman (Mar 24, 2015)

The new theater at my old high school (where I know TD the big events and LD smaller events) came with 22 of these. I really enjoy them and they have a really wide range with incredible smooth fades. Granted, the only other color-mixing LEDs I've played with are Chauvet Colorstrips, Blizzard Stormchasers, and some off-brand Chinese moving LED wash-type instrument (the brand name on the side was "LED Mover"). They are easy to work with, but a little surprising to me that they don't self-terminate. They take the same frame size as Source 4 Pars, so when you want to put a diffusion in them, there's usually some already cut for a different instrument.

They have a very small beam angle, though. They are definitely quite fun and simple to work with but have their limitations. They are able to cut through a wash with 750w S4s. I recommend them, but they are definitely part of their Selador line, not their Source 4 line.


----------



## MikeJ (Mar 24, 2015)

Thanks for the info Shaun! None of the slimpar, or color dash line have particularly smooth dimming, but at the price point, its probably a fair trade off, I would guess the Colorodo series would be a closer comparison. Also I would fully expect the ColorSource to be brighter and wider, but It sounds like the color performance is disappointing; It really should destroy the Chauvets.


----------



## MikeJ (Mar 24, 2015)

Goatman said:


> They are easy to work with, but a little surprising to me that they don't self-terminate.



Self termination is mostly a myth. I not sure who started it, and I cannot think of one fixture that actually self terminates.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Mar 24, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> Self termination is mostly a myth. I not sure who started it, and I cannot think of one fixture that actually self terminates.


ETC's Desire line self-terminates. It's got a switch built in to the DMX Thru port.


----------



## MikeJ (Mar 24, 2015)

sk8rsdad said:


> ETC's Desire line self-terminates. It's got a switch built in to the DMX Thru port.


I knew there had to be a few, but the vast majority of fixtures do not self terminate, so its best to have terminators on hand and assume that you need them. Though, if ETC has already seat a precedence for selling self terminating fixtures, it does seem like a oversight to not offer that in new products.


----------



## JJBerman (Mar 25, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> I knew there had to be a few, but the vast majority of fixtures do not self terminate, so its best to have terminators on hand and assume that you need them. Though, if ETC has already seat a precedence for selling self terminating fixtures, it does seem like a oversight to not offer that in new products.


ETC's desire, and S4 led line's self terminate. I've actually run into problems if you add a terminator to the final desire in a chain.
I know the selador classic line does not self terminate.
I don't know about color source par off hand but it is probably listed somewhere on the website/manual.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 25, 2015)

JJBerman said:


> I've actually run into problems if you add a terminator to the final desire in a chain.


Please expound, as I don't see how this is possible, given that inserting any male shell into the female switches the onboard resistor OUT of the circuit.

See also the threads
http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/the-dmx-termination-plug.9116/#post-105377
http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/moving-light-freakout-terminator-was-the-problem.28635/

As for the ColorSource PAR, I can't speak for ETC, but suspect the decision not to include the self-terminating receptacle was merely a cost-saving measure:

DavidNorth said:


> ...
> - Self-terminating connectors are available from Neutrik
> - These connectors were co-developed with ETC
> *- They are not cheap, which is likely why not many manufacturers use them*
> ...


*Bolding* mine.


----------



## ShaunH (Mar 25, 2015)

Update: we tested them next to our lustr2's and the blue is infact the same blue in raw 7+ mode, the reason the lustrs go deeper is the extra indigo chip to make the deeper hues. (no doubt they'll release a 'pro' version later in the year with the lustr colour engine and price to match!). Also tested next to a 1k par 64 and the beam is pretty much a cp61 beam and equal to such (making the filter extras super useful).


----------



## techieman33 (Mar 25, 2015)

ShaunH said:


> Update: we tested them next to our lustr2's and the blue is infact the same blue in raw 7+ mode, the reason the lustrs go deeper is the extra indigo chip to make the deeper hues. (no doubt they'll release a 'pro' version later in the year with the lustr colour engine and price to match!). Also tested next to a 1k par 64 and the beam is pretty much a cp61 beam and equal to such (making the filter extras super useful).



cp61 is a narrow for those of us here in the states.


----------



## NickVon (Mar 26, 2015)

techieman33 said:


> cp61 is a narrow for those of us here in the states.


Thanks for that Tidbit.


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 26, 2015)

We shot a demo video of it, along with their other new LED products at USITT. It should be up in a few days. Watch the Conventions/USITT 2015 forum.

I would love to get my hands on a couple dozen of them.


----------



## JJBerman (Mar 27, 2015)

derekleffew said:


> Please expound, as I don't see how this is possible, given that inserting any male shell into the female switches the onboard resistor OUT of the circuit.


One of the venues I work at had a problem where a string of desires wouldn't respond to control from the light board. After switching some dmx cable to no avail I removed the external terminator from the final fixture and all worked out. 
On my extremely long to do list at that venue is to troubleshoot that string of fixtures and try to reproduce the issue and try to single out if the terminator was the cause or just a mask to a bigger problem. 
This same venue is giving me grief with a dmx "ghost" every now and then. Making fading led's not fun.


----------



## robartsd (Mar 27, 2015)

JJBerman said:


> One of the venues I work at had a problem where a string of desires wouldn't respond to control from the light board. After switching some dmx cable to no avail I removed the external terminator from the final fixture and all worked out.
> On my extremely long to do list at that venue is to troubleshoot that string of fixtures and try to reproduce the issue and try to single out if the terminator was the cause or just a mask to a bigger problem.
> This same venue is giving me grief with a dmx "ghost" every now and then. Making fading led's not fun.


In annother thread, ST pointed out that sometimes a continuity break in one side of the data pair will sometimes make it look like adding a terminator causes a problem. I'd start by making sure both data+ and data- reach the first instrument in that string.


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 30, 2015)

I just got a quote from my local dealer on a small package of Colorsource PARs. The sales guy and I have a long relationship and I'm buying 10, so my price may be a little better than the one you get, or not (pricing is always a bit of a mystery) . But that said... I was quoted a little over $6000 for a 10 pack (including sales tax).

Upper $500's with no sales tax and it says "Made by ETC in Middleton, Wi" on the side... That's potentially a game changer in the industry.


----------



## JohnD (Mar 31, 2015)

Online browsing has this:
http://www.newlighting.com/24314/new-etc-color-source-par-package-of-8


----------



## ccrews (Apr 19, 2015)

The CSPs are in and we are working them into our big dance show. Initial thoughts are that quality is really nice, lacking a gel frame (a must for diffussion), dimming curve looks great, the white is noticeably greenish. More to come as I work with them this week.


----------



## SteveB (Apr 19, 2015)

ccrews said:


> The CSPs are in and we are working them into our big dance show. Initial thoughts are that quality is really nice, lacking a gel frame (a must for diffussion), dimming curve looks great, the white is noticeably greenish. More to come as I work with them this week.



Curious. It has a double slot for color frames and accessories, correct ?. What's keeping you from adding diffusion ? and I think it's a standard 7.5" size.


----------



## RickR (Apr 19, 2015)

They are a standard frame size, same as all S4 Pars. ETC will happily sell you frames, clamps and safety cables are good 'add-on' choices as well.

I've not liked the way standard diffusion works with LEDs. ETC and many others are selling diffusion material in some interesting degrees of spread. From what I can tell it's all made by Luminit.


----------



## ccrews (Apr 19, 2015)

It didn't come with the frame to hold the gel. The face is built to accommodate one.


----------



## techieman33 (Apr 19, 2015)

ccrews said:


> It didn't come with the frame to hold the gel. The face is built to accommodate one.



That's a big difference. I haven't seen any documentation that says it includes one, and it isn't that hard to get one if you need one. Not including it is probably another cost saving measure, especially when a lot of people who buy them will never use it. Now if it took a weird size frame then I would really like to see it included.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Apr 19, 2015)

The frame holders are likely intended to hold holographic lenses, which include the frame. Standard diffusion is less optically efficient.


----------



## ccrews (Apr 19, 2015)

I am just pointing out that it does not come with the gel frame as a matter of fact. I have bought other conventional fixtures, lense tubes and such from ETC and a frame was always included, so I was surprised when this fixture was lacking one. I am only offering my observations/experiences for others to do with as they please. No slight intended.


----------



## techieman33 (Apr 19, 2015)

ccrews said:


> I am just pointing out that it does not come with the gel frame as a matter of fact. I have bought other conventional fixtures, lense tubes and such from ETC and a frame was always included, so I was surprised when this fixture was lacking one. I am only offering my observations/experiences for others to do with as they please. No slight intended.



No problem, it read like there was no slot to put a color frame, not that a color frame didn't come with the fixture.


----------



## Goatman (Apr 20, 2015)

The CSPs we got didn't come with frames, but we have fit the standard S4 PAR in the slot (for diffusion). I'm not super great at spotting shifts in a few K, but the color temperature is pretty great.


----------



## gregeye (Apr 21, 2015)

It is actually a really nice product. They are built nicely and have a hell of a punch for what they are. Great buy for universities looking for cheap led's.


----------



## SteveB (Apr 21, 2015)

ccrews said:


> I am just pointing out that it does not come with the gel frame as a matter of fact. I have bought other conventional fixtures, lense tubes and such from ETC and a frame was always included, so I was surprised when this fixture was lacking one. I am only offering my observations/experiences for others to do with as they please. No slight intended.



I think that ETC's thought on this would be why provide a gel frame for a fixture that you would not be putting gel in front of. The purpose of the frame holder is to hold the accessory lenses as well as barn doors, high hats etc... But probably not a color filter on an inherent color changing fixture. 

As well, 7.5" color frames are a standard inventory in most theaters.


----------



## RickR (Apr 21, 2015)

You'll want to put diffusion in it. The LED friendly stuff @sk8rsdad and I mentioned ETC sells with a frame. Part of why it lists for $20.


----------



## ccrews (Jul 7, 2015)

Sorry for the long delay, but I put together a little video and it is finally up.


----------



## soundlight (Jul 7, 2015)

I have to say that after seeing the units in person, as a fan of the deep blue range I personally wouldn't go for these units at all. I've seen Martin, Chroma Q, Color Kinetics, Elation, Chauvet, &c. that can all do a fantastic deep blue, while still getting a great color gamut (especially with a nice amber, like the Chroma Q stuff has). Having seen dozens of current-generation LED fixtures, I just don't see what all the hype is about the Color Source par. I can mix a warm white on any of my other fixtures that looks really good (well, except those older units that have only RGB or aren't homogenized lensing), and I've got a great cool white from those too, in part thanks to how the blue fills out that part of the spectrum. I understand that for completely inexperienced users turning the light on and getting a useable warm white out is great, but what about all the range that is lost because of that? I would say that those looking at this unit should also consider the Chroma Q Color One 100, which is similar in price and also does not have 7 circles on the front - you've got one, single, homogenized lens on the front. It's also got some of the best color mixing I've used on an LED unit.


----------



## RickR (Jul 7, 2015)

@ccrews - I noticed that the CSP profile is not 'calibrated' (black line showing color range) so color selection will be off. Not that color pickers are all that reliable anyway.

I finally got to spend a too brief time with some CSPs. The white is quite nice and far brighter than I would expect from generic RGB or RGBA units. I agree that the blues could be a bit deeper and that the whole gamut could be wider. So I guess there is still a market for the Selador family.  My conclusion is that they are best suited for the small market - churches, schools and such that aren't doing 'high art' but want a solid LED with no excuses. Don't put them on your cyc and expect to match the full range of a gel book. Don't expect them to sell for $250. Do buy a diffuser set and some top hats.


----------



## ccrews (Jul 7, 2015)

I too would like deeper blues control of the lime emitter, but do like the confidence/comfort of having the ETC name on the instrument. I just aimed them at the cyc for a nice reference of the fixture out of the box.


----------



## gafftaper (Jul 8, 2015)

I spent an hour with them doing a comparison to my Chinese LED's. My feeling is that the goal was to produce a fixture that is highly accurate in white and pastels. We mixed some beautiful amber, pink, and light blue. They sacrificed some depth of color, especially in the dark blue range to get it. As I find myself saying over and over around here, choose the tool for the job. This is not a Vivid fixture... It also isn't a Vivid price. You get an extremely well made fixture at an extremely competitive price with the best service in the industry. In order to get that you will have to sacrifice some deep saturated blue and purple. 

There is no perfect fixture. But for the money, this is about as good as it gets.


----------



## Dionysus (Jul 8, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> I spent an hour with them doing a comparison to my Chinese LED's. My feeling is that the goal was to produce a fixture that is highly accurate in white and pastels. We mixed some beautiful amber, pink, and light blue. They sacrificed some depth of color, especially in the dark blue range to get it. As I find myself saying over and over around here, choose the tool for the job. This is not a Vivid fixture... It also isn't a Vivid price. You get an extremely well made fixture at an extremely competitive price with the best service in the industry. In order to get that you will have to sacrifice some deep saturated blue and purple.
> 
> There is no perfect fixture. But for the money, this is about as good as it gets.



Thank you so much for doing the comparison and giving us the low down you derived on this fixture Gafftaper! Did you happen to take any photos during the process (that would be really neat to see the comparison, etc).

Sounds like a good fixture for general light for theatre, I always agree "the right tool for the job".


----------



## gafftaper (Jul 8, 2015)

Sorry I didn't take any pictures. We were using the Strand Palette VL gel match function and colors like R02, R33, R60/61 were very close. With a slight manual tweak to the mix, we decided that they absolutely nailed the Gel. We noticed that the Red, Yellow, Orange, Amber, Green... were all much better than those in my "K9 Lighting Bull Dog 2 LED PARS". Deep blue and purple was lacking in the CSP's, but lighter saturated blue and lavenders were great. I think it's a VERY good choice for places that do a lot of straight theater and I'm considering buying about a dozen of them for down light on stage. If I did more concert and music stuff in my space, then I would be less excited about them, but I do mostly straight theater, so it's a great fit for my needs.

My biggest problem is those Chauvet ColorDash Par-Hex 12's are really intriguing. Having UV in the fixture and saving about $100 each is very tempting. I would be giving up on ETC's gold standard support, but I'm also confident that my friends at Chauvet would take good care of me. I wish I could do a side by side shoot out. If I can I'll let you know how it works out.

By the way @Ford you might want to have someone proof read the Colordash Par-Hex 12 page . I don't know about you, but I'm a little concerned about buying a fixture which is "brilliant ultra-violent" . Any device that is both brilliant and ultra-violent, is only a short step away from becoming self aware, which we all know leads to Skynet, Judgment Day, and terrible sequels decades later. Are ultra-violent fixtures safe for use around humans? What about actors?


----------



## Ford (Jul 8, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> By the way @Ford you might want to have someone proof read the Colordash Par-Hex 12 page . I don't know about you, but I'm a little concerned about buying a fixture which is "brilliant ultra-violent" . Any device that is both brilliant and ultra-violent, is only a short step away from becoming self aware, which we all know leads to Skynet, Judgment Day, and terrible sequels decades later. Are ultra-violent fixtures safe for use around humans? What about actors?



Hey Gaff!!
with all of these "intelligent lights" out there, our marketing department wanted make sure that people know that ours are at the head of the class...
GRIN.
-Ford


----------



## gafftaper (Jul 8, 2015)

Ford said:


> ..with all of these "intelligent lights" out there, our marketing department wanted make sure that people know that ours are at the head of the class...



Head of da class... and if you have to break a few heads to get dhere dis is not my concern. Badda Bing Badda Boom.


----------



## ccrews (Jul 9, 2015)

I was pretty pleased with the red and green performance and the amber can pop. I really like R127 cyc silk amber and the CSP can get really really close. I agree with gafftaper's assessment, but would add that they work well for dance; in our venue at least. As a school we do everything from theatre to talent shows, dance shows, lectures, etc. 

I even put six fixtures in my catwalk to wash the front of the stage at about a 50' throw they are covering a 60' proscenium ranging from about 10' deep to 20' or so at down center of the apron. Good value in my opinion for what they are at the moment. I am interested in the longevity of these fixtures. Currently we are just using them for color, not as general down lighting.


----------



## wolfman005 (Jul 9, 2015)

So it seems to me that the next logical step for manufactures will be something with RGBAWM+UV which would in theory allow deep saturated colors along with good color temperature for front lighting.


----------



## SteveB (Jul 9, 2015)

wolfman005 said:


> So it seems to me that the next logical step for manufactures will be something with RGBAWM+UV which would in theory allow deep saturated colors along with good color temperature for front lighting.



The Selador Lustre series 2 line already produces good deep blues, as well as good tints, no UV needed. Could use maybe some more red, but it's always a trade off in emitters vs. space.


----------



## Pie4Weebl (Jul 9, 2015)

wolfman005 said:


> So it seems to me that the next logical step for manufactures will be something with RGBAWM+UV which would in theory allow deep saturated colors along with good color temperature for front lighting.


I think Colorblast TRX's are still my favorite for range of colors.


----------



## JohnD (Mar 21, 2016)

I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere, but there is another option in the colorsource line, a deep blue version.
http://www.etcconnect.com/Products/Lighting-Fixtures/ColorSource/Fixtures.aspx


----------



## Chris Pflieger (Nov 10, 2016)

Any update about these fixtures? Anyone actually running them?


----------



## ShaunH (Nov 10, 2016)

Have used them for some years now at the two venues I work at, both 350 cap venues 10x10 stages. We have both original csp and deep blue (mainly for backlight) with narrow circular and the 45 degree lens drop-ins and can't fault them at all . the colour renders really well alongside our lustr 2 fixtures. one venue is a dance venue and the csp work really nice as mid/ heads. barely use gel nowadays for our own productions.


----------



## Crash_Override (Nov 13, 2016)

What about using CSP as general front light? Has anybody used them? My most used colours: L004,L009,L201,L202,L205 and open white.


----------



## ShaunH (Nov 13, 2016)

Firstly I admire that hackers reference. and yes have used them for front light too . they work pretty well in the range of warm whites and colds from the non deep blue fixtures.


----------



## gafftaper (Nov 14, 2016)

ShaunH said:


> Firstly I admire that hackers reference. and yes have used them for front light too . they work pretty well in the range of warm whites and colds from the non deep blue fixtures.


I have the standard version in my rig. I agree they do a wonderful job with the all the lighter saturated colors you want in a typical theater setting. They are a little weak in the blue/purple range, but they have fixed that with the deep blue version.


----------



## TuckerD (Nov 14, 2016)

The color source par has been one of my favorite fixtures for a very long time. Especially once I was able to get some into a local venue as their rep plot down light and wash. Beautiful color quality and dimming. Their color gamut doesn't quite have the same reach as other x7 fixtures I have used or seen, but for a small cap theater they have been the best purchasing decision made in the lighting rig. They also upgraded to Ion at that time which is a close second.


----------



## James Steinmeyer (Nov 14, 2016)

Scenemaster60 said:


> Has anyone heard what the MSRP will be on these? I'll be very curious to read reviews as people begin to use them!


We purchased 5 last summer and have been please with them. The total package cost $3300.


----------

