# Safety Issues in the Theatre



## stantonsound

This is an extension from another board.....

We had been discussing a rather unsafe situation in which a person was flown during a show using a $99 automotive winch, with no safety system in place. To continue a general discussion, what unsafe practices have you witnessed in the theatre and what did you do to stop them, if anything?


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## Radman

The carting around of occupied elevated genies without outriggers happens plenty. I simply refuse to do that, that's the most I can do to stop it. Thats the one that pops to mind at the moment.


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## Logos

Almost every venue I've ever been to has some sort of safety issue that exists because "That's the way we've always done it" The introduction of compulsory risk assessments on all regularly performed tasks in the industry in the UK and Australia has put paid to a great many of these poor practices. They just don't seem to go away though, I was just having coffee in a the coffee bar in a major city hotel here in Adelaide and two guys presumably from hotel maintenance were changing lamps in the decorative lighting using an old fashioned Tallescope (ladder on wheels) that didn't even have outriggers fitted. The coffee bar was full of pro touring technicians waiting for a tour bus who noticeably all moved well away from the scene of operations. The hotel has a couple of convention rooms with lighting rigs and I bet the Tallescope came from there. 
Lack of safety harness and of course hard hat usage on stage are also issues that seem to be everywhere.


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## DarSax

We still don't use safety cables. I got $3000 from our student government association, and that's the first thing the money is going towards. Then, sandbags. Then, I'm still figuring out.


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## avkid

We have many two prong(ungrounded) extension cords laying around.


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## gafftaper

avkid said:


> We have many two prong(ungrounded) extension cords laying around.



That sounds like a problem easily solved with some wire cutters.


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## PadawanGeek

In the youth thing at our church, nobody knows anything about lighting, so they draped the curtains over the lights. BAHHH!!! Not to mention the flaming swords, the kids operating the barely-working followspot, and the flying balls that just about ruined three LCD displays last sunday...


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## avkid

PadawanGeek said:


> Not to mention the flaming swords


Huh, what, who?
Someone call the Fire Department!


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## stantonsound

How about people using 16 or 18 gauge extension cords from wal mart, or the like, with stage pins put on the end? I have seen many catwalks full of orange and yellow cable. And I will say that there are many theatres that don't use safety cables at all.


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## PadawanGeek

avkid said:


> Huh, what, who?
> Someone call the Fire Department!



Oh yes, they are so much fun! 

I just can't wait until we do sparks on the swords during the dubbing!


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## gafftaper

Ok. Please explain the flaming swords. What are they and why does a church need them.


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## Foxinabox10

And what are "flying balls"?


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## Footer

Circus hitch anyone?


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## PadawanGeek

We have flaming swords because at our church, we have a wednesday night program called "Club Knights". As you can tell, the theme is medieval, so we have this whole kingdom deal where the youth complete challenges and go up in the ranks. In one of the stages, a flaming sword is involved.  All of the other ceremonies include swords and daggers and whatnot, but no flaming ones.



Flying balls are rubber balls that the youth hit around with a baseball bat that I really don't like because they always hit the balls into the tech booth


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## drawstuf99

So there is a sword lit on fire on stage?


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## BenjaminD

Wow. And I thought my high school auditorium was bad... People batting balls around? Aerobics is one thing, but batting balls? 

Oh, and is no service disconnect breaker for two CD80SV 96 slot dimmer racks a bad thing?

And flaming swords? Like, real fire?


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## icewolf08

BenjaminD said:


> Oh, and is no service disconnect breaker for two CD80SV 96 slot dimmer racks a bad thing?



Are you sure there is no service disconnect, or do you just not know where it is? Sometimes the service disconnect is in a totally different part of the building from the dimmers. The service disconnect for my dimmers is 3 floors down buried in the costume shop where no one would think to look, but it is where all the power comes into the building.


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## avkid

Always know where your service entrance is!


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## BenjaminD

I'm not sure if there is no service disconnect, but I know that no electrical closet in the general part of the building has anything over 400 amps, let alone enough power to drive 2 CD80's.


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## stantonsound

It should be in the main switchgear room, usually in a room where the main power to the building comes in. There are transformers, motor control center(pumps, etc...), UPS systems, and the main disconnects that turn off the power to the circuit breaker panels in the building. The entire panels have a disconnect somewhere. Something as large as a 400amp disconnect is usually as large as a regular circuit breaker panel.


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## PadawanGeek

charcoaldabs said:


> Do you per chance have a picture of this flaming sword?



I don't have a picture, but if I come across one I will post it.


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## stantonsound

How many people on this forum work in a theatre where safety cables are not used on their fixtures?


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## icewolf08

stantonsound said:


> How many people on this forum work in a theatre where safety cables are not used on their fixtures?



I have safety cables on all my units including floor mounts (yeah, they don't do much). On most of my instruments I put the loop end of the safety around the yoke of the fixture so you can't remove it unless you take the yoke off. This means that I don't loose safety cables, and I know that every light has one. Safety cables are cheap there is no reason not to have them.


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## stantonsound

icewolf08 said:


> I have safety cables on all my units including floor mounts (yeah, they don't do much). On most of my instruments I put the loop end of the safety around the yoke of the fixture so you can't remove it unless you take the yoke off. This means that I don't loose safety cables, and I know that every light has one. Safety cables are cheap there is no reason not to have them.




I agree, but I will have to say that most of the high school theatres/auditoriums, as well as professional houses, that I walk in don't have them. Also, I rarely see them at music festivals/outdoor concerts (the small ones, not the national touring acts).


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## PadawanGeek

stantonsound said:


> How many people on this forum work in a theatre where safety cables are not used on their fixtures?



For some reason, they guy that was putting in our lighting didn't put any safety cables on them, so I need to get some. Luckilly right now we don't have many lights, but in our type of place (youth ministry where rubber balls flying up and hitting the ceiling is a common thing), we are going to need them. :neutral:


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## mbenonis

I would reccomend that every theatre program own at least once copy of Dr. Doom's book, "Practical Health and Safety Guidelines for School Theater Operations." It's a thick book containing chapters on almost anything you can think of, including lighting, fire, falling, and even makeup. It's worth it's weight in gold, and Dr. Doom is truly the most knowledgeable man in theatre safety in the country if not the world.

http://www.theaterhealthandsafetybook.com/


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## PadawanGeek

mbenonis said:


> I would reccomend that every theatre program own at least once copy of Dr. Doom's book, "Practical Health and Safety Guidelines for School Theater Operations." It's a thick book containing chapters on almost anything you can think of, including lighting, fire, falling, and even makeup. It's worth it's weight in gold, and Dr. Doom is truly the most knowledgeable man in theatre safety in the country if not the world.
> 
> http://www.theaterhealthandsafetybook.com/





I don't feel comfortable trusting someone named "Dr. Doom". :shock:


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## mbenonis

PadawanGeek said:


> I don't feel comfortable trusting someone named "Dr. Doom". :shock:



Hehe. I suppose Dr. Randall W. A. Davidson's nickname is a bit intimidating at first. You can read up on his website how he got the name and why people consider him to be the best in the business. Here's one quote:


Kristi Ross-Clausen said:


> One might expect a man nicknamed "Dr. Doom" to be a pessimist. I find Dr. Randall Davidson to be just the opposite. His personal mission is to make the entertainment industry - in all its forms - safer for everyone, and he lives what he preaches. I was recently with him as we left a high school auditorium at the end of one of his seminars for teachers and administrators. The timing coincided with the end of the school day, so halls were filled with students hurrying out the door. Dr. Doom noticed a small piece of paper lying on the floor, picked it up, and put it in the trash, lest someone slip on it and fall. It's this kind of attention to the smallest details that he brings to this book. Because of this, you may find that parts of this book are challenging to read (I recommend you wait until long after mealtime to read the list of trash he's found backstage!). But it's well worth the effort. As a former teacher, I know that when it comes to the technical demands of performances, most schools have well-intentioned but under-trained and under-supported theatre and music staff. Please read this book, share it, and discuss it with everyone who works with students in the performing arts. Use Dr. Doom's decades of experience to make your school a safer place.
> 
> Kristi Ross-Clausen, Former K-12 music and drama teacher
> International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, Local 470
> ISETSA makeup safety consultant / Independent makeup artist
> Mary Kay Independent Beauty Consultant


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## PadawanGeek

mbenonis said:


> Hehe. I suppose Dr. Randall W. A. Davidson's nickname is a bit intimidating at first. You can read up on his website how he got the name and why people consider him to be the best in the business. Here's one quote:



Thank you for your comforting words


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## drawstuf99

I'm quite happy to say that my school's two theatres have safties on all their instruments...which is a good example, I suppose.

All of the many outside theatres I've worked in use safety cables except one, which scares me sometimes...


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## Chris15

As for this youth ministry, I do have to wonder why whoever is supervising this isn't doing anything to stop blatantly unsafe practices... You would be dead if you did that in my church... The property committee would kill you for destroying or potentially destroying the place...


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## PadawanGeek

Chris15 said:


> As for this youth ministry, I do have to wonder why whoever is supervising this isn't doing anything to stop blatantly unsafe practices... You would be dead if you did that in my church... The property committee would kill you for destroying or potentially destroying the place...



I have nothing to do with the lack of safety cables. I am going to go out and get some this weekend. As for the flaming swords, they did that long before I cam along. The flying balls, well, I guard the tech booth with my life whenever they start hitting/kicking those.


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## Chris15

PadawanGeek said:


> I have nothing to do with the lack of safety cables. I am going to go out and get some this weekend. As for the flaming swords, they did that long before I cam along. The flying balls, well, I guard the tech booth with my life whenever they start hitting/kicking those.



Let me firstly apologise. I in no way intended to imply that any of this was your fault. In light of some extra facts, it seems that there is a level of control over flaming swords etc, which did not seem apparent from earlier posts. However, the people in charge should be doing something about the balls I'd have thought...


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## pudge02

I'm not against the use of safety cables, but has any one actually ever seen a safety cable catch a falling instrument or be used for more than a visual safety measure? I've been doing lights for 15years now, and have never seen an instrument fall and be caught by a safety cable. I've got more use out of safety cables by using them to hang them off a ladder when hanging likes (this way i don't have to make as many trips)


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## themuzicman

We have safety cables on all our lights, and the only thing I have actually seen fall is a barndoor from one of our fresnels. Because of this now, I safety cable them now.


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## stantonsound

pudge02 said:


> I'm not against the use of safety cables, but has any one actually ever seen a safety cable catch a falling instrument or be used for more than a visual safety measure? I've been doing lights for 15years now, and have never seen an instrument fall and be caught by a safety cable. I've got more use out of safety cables by using them to hang them off a ladder when hanging likes (this way i don't have to make as many trips)




Safety cables are a funny thing. When we need them (just before we tighten the clamp and just after we take the clamp off) they are already off the fixture. Also, if they were really that important, then why aren't they connected directly to the fixture, instead of just around the yolk. The bolts holding the fixture to the yolk will fail before the clamp does, and the lens tube falling out is even more likely that than, yet they are not protected by a safety. 

I have seen one of the new "Chinese" C Clamps break, it sheared off at the top of the "c". It was at a live music club and was holding a steel par 64. No one was hit, but it did scare the crap out of a few people. It had just been put up a day before during a remodel. (We checked the pipe later, figuring that it was just overtightened, but there was no dimple for it, so I doubt that it was.) It was purchased on ebay. (the image is from ProGear Warehouse because it was the only pic I could find. I order from them and they do have good products. Tom Murphy is the manager and a great guy)

I brought that up as an example, as I have only seen a few theatres that religiously uses them, and more don't have any at all.


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## gafftaper

I'm taking a course this summer on Theater Safety and the text book is Dr.Doom's book. Looking forward to it.


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## Logos

I've seen a lantern fall from a failed Hook clamp once in 40 years in and around theatres. I have however seen unsafely rigged lanterns bounce off bars because the clamp was not tightened properly. Unfortunately often if the person who rigged the lantern didn't tighten the clamp up they also didn't fasten the safety. I am gradually making sure all my lanterns have the safety bond fixed to the body of the lantern. It also means that I no longer lose so many safeties on hires.


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## PadawanGeek

Chris15 said:


> However, the people in charge should be doing something about the balls I'd have thought...



they should be...  One day we took a drum screen from backstage and put it in front of the tech booth. :shock:


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## avkid

PadawanGeek said:


> they should be... One day we took a drum screen from backstage and put it in front of the tech booth.


All you need are sharp scissors or a board covered in duct tape(sticky side up)


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## icewolf08

pudge02 said:


> I'm not against the use of safety cables, but has any one actually ever seen a safety cable catch a falling instrument or be used for more than a visual safety measure? I've been doing lights for 15years now, and have never seen an instrument fall and be caught by a safety cable. I've got more use out of safety cables by using them to hang them off a ladder when hanging likes (this way i don't have to make as many trips)



Safety cables are actually quite important. Just because you haven't seen a light fall doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. C-clamps are inherently flawed devices, if you look at the way forces are applied to them and the materials they are made of it is almost like they are designed to fail. You don't have to over-tighten a C-clamp to much to weaken it, and a little bit every time you hang the camp adds up. Sure, in general we see clamps fail while they are being hung or struck, but the one that slips by could be the one that falls.

This of course is not to mention that there are a lot of other things that could cause a c-clamp to fail. A shock-load to a lighting position, say a running fly that hits the grid, could cause the c-clamps on multiple instruments to fail.

As for the comment that was made in a post about the the yoke bolts failing before the c-clamp, that also seems doubtful. On a source 4 the yoke bolts are at least grade 5 bolts, I don't know offhand what the rated strength of the bolts is, but I would have more faith in them than the C-clamp.

I have seen instruments fall, and it isn't pretty and luckily no one was hurt. As I said, just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it won't happen. Being lax about safety is not a good practice at all.


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## gafftaper

We had a 6.8 magnitude earthquake hit here in 2001. I had 150 kids in my high school little theater watching a guest speaker. I was in the booth at the time. I watched and listened as about 25- 360Q's with 20+ year old C-clamps, hanging over the audience, banged together for about a minute. Luckily no c-clamps failed but I was sure glad I had safety cables.


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## jonhirsh

I have seen a C clamp fail and there was a safty on the fixture. I have also had a S4 droped 3' away from me from about 20' above my head i perfer the option with a safty.

JH


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## Footer

gafftaper said:


> We had a 6.8 magnitude earthquake hit here in 2001. I had 150 kids in my high school little theater watching a guest speaker. I was in the booth at the time. I watched and listened as about 25- 360Q's with 20+ year old C-clamps, hanging over the audience, banged together for about a minute. Luckily no c-clamps failed but I was sure glad I had safety cables.



Thats something that few people ever think about in a theatre, what happens when the earth starts shaking. The midwest is suppost to have a "mega" earthquake within the next 50 years when the new madrid fault line finally hits. When that happens, better hope your in a theatre with safety cables (hopefully i'm in the middle of a corn field, why I would be in a corn field, I dunno, odds are I will be strapped to a focus track or god forbid in a genie at the time).


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## pudgeo2

If a huge earthquake hit the midwest, having safety cables would be the least of my worry


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## Footer

pudgeo2 said:


> If a huge earthquake hit the midwest, having safety cables would be the least of my worry



Can't hurt though. I was just trying to bring out the point that you always design for the worst case scenario, and people usually forget about that. Its one of the reasons that the x10 factor gets built into everything overhead If a quake starts and because there was safety cables on every fixture and it gives an extra 30 seconds of time before the safety's fail, then they did what they needed to do.


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## gafftaper

Yeah quakes are something we are very aware of out here on the West Coast. Personally after that experience I will never hang an instrument without a safety. It's not worth it. 

Here's the rest of the Earth Quake story... I had 150 high school kids in the little theater (a very small proscenium space with one pipe over the audience and two small ladders on the side. Some one from the English department had booked this bizzare modern poetry reading that involved live soundeffects being created old radio show style while the poet read (it was crap). As the earthquake began there was this low rumble for about 5 seconds before it really started moving. Afterward, students thought it was just another sound effect. Then it really started rocking and the power started flashing on and off. In retrospect it was oddly funny. The theater was silent... then the lights would go out and everyone would scream... then the lights came back on and all you heard was panting of the student catching their breath. This cycle repeated on and off about 4 times before the quake ended. It was like being inside a horror film. The whole time I'm hiding in the doorway to the booth and listening to all my instruments smashing together praying the safety's don't fail. 

When it was over we fortunately had power and simply exited out a side stage door to the parking lot as we had practiced in the past for drills... yes along with fire drills we have earthquake drills. 

So here's the funny part. The teachers left with their students and I'm standing there looking at the poet and the sound effects guy. I fortunately didn't have a class that period. So I said, "there's no way we are getting everyone back in the building anytime soon, you might as well go home." So they pack up their stuff and we head out to the parking lot, me leading the way in a procession of hauling boxes of stuff. As we come down the sloped driveway into the parking lot the entire school is watching me packing out a bunch of boxes with a couple of strangers following. We all had a huge laugh as I started hearing students calling out... "Hey he's quitting!" "Can't take a little shaking?" "That's it I'm out of here." It was all very amusing. 

On the serious side I didn't even loose a single sheet of Gel. There was some minor damage to plaster in the large theater but everything in the air was still there... although it needed a refocus.


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## icewolf08

charcoaldabs said:


> First thing is what is the correct way to lock of a c-clamp? I've never heard this topic discussed. What is correct/incorrect?



Hanging a light on a horizontal position (position is parallel to deck):
1) Place open C-clamp on pipe
2) Tighten c-clamp to finger tight
3) Attach safety cable
4) use wrench to tighten c-clamp about one half turn (this is especially critical if you are using aluminum truss as it is more malleable). You don't need to tighten the clamp more than enough to hold the fixture without moving. You will damage the position and weaken the c-clamp.​To strike the light follow those steps in reverse.

To hang on a vertical position (i.e. a boom):
Hopefully you have sidearms, but the idea is the same. If you are using sidearms then you should attach the sidearm without the light on it.
1) Attach C-clamp to boom
2) tighten C-clamp to finger tight
3) use wrench to tighten about one half turn (as above)
4) if you are using a sidearm you should now place the light (with T-Bolt) on the sidearm
5) since you took the C-clamp off the unit to attach the T-Bolt for the sidearm you should take the c-clamp and attach it to the boom above the light. Now you have a point you can put the safety around. If you aren't using sidearms then you should use a spare c-clamp for this purpose.​


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## Footer

icewolf08 said:


> Hanging a light on a horizontal position (position is parallel to deck):
> 1) Place open C-clamp on pipe
> 2) Tighten c-clamp to finger tight
> 3) Attach safety cable
> 4) use wrench to tighten c-clamp about one half turn (this is especially critical if you are using aluminum truss as it is more malleable). You don't need to tighten the clamp more than enough to hold the fixture without moving. You will damage the position and weaken the c-clamp.​To strike the light follow those steps in reverse.
> To hang on a vertical position (i.e. a boom):
> Hopefully you have sidearms, but the idea is the same. If you are using sidearms then you should attach the sidearm without the light on it.
> 1) Attach C-clamp to boom
> 2) tighten C-clamp to finger tight
> 3) use wrench to tighten about one half turn (as above)
> 4) if you are using a sidearm you should now place the light (with T-Bolt) on the sidearm
> 5) since you took the C-clamp off the unit to attach the T-Bolt for the sidearm you should take the c-clamp and attach it to the boom above the light. Now you have a point you can put the safety around. If you aren't using sidearms then you should use a spare c-clamp for this purpose.​



I always pre-rig the side-arms, speeds up things in the air. Also, for booms I usually right the entire pipe on the ground and stand the pipe up (with the boom base attaches the entire time. I usually don't like to do that if there is a fixture over 9' off deck.


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## gafftaper

charcoaldabs said:


> When I hang things vertically I tend to really lock 'em off, as we don't safety them in that situation, so I've always figured it's better to mess up the pipe a little, to make sure it really stays on there.
> My concern with sidearms is that in order to pan, you have to loosen the bolt on the yoke. I personally like to have an instrument secure when focusing it. I personally only like loosening the bolt on the yoke when it is on the ground.
> On the positive side of things though that is the procedure I use when hanging an instrument (fixture? I still don't know what I should be callin' 'em),



Why not safety them? So it slides down the pipe several feet before it catches on something horizontal... still better than falling to the floor and killing someone. 

Instrument vs. Fixture... I consider both acceptable and think that it's mostly one of those regional things like Gaffer vs Gaffa


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## icewolf08

charcoaldabs said:


> When I hang things vertically I tend to really lock 'em off, as we don't safety them in that situation, so I've always figured it's better to mess up the pipe a little, to make sure it really stays on there.
> My concern with sidearms is that in order to pan, you have to loosen the bolt on the yoke. I personally like to have an instrument secure when focusing it. I personally only like loosening the bolt on the yoke when it is on the ground.



This is exactly why C-clamps fail. If you "really lock 'em off" then you are putting the force on the clamp that is what weakens it. When using a sidearm, why is your fixture any less secure than when using a c-clamp? Unless I can't the yoke bolt of a c-clmap loose I never touch the "jesus" bolt because as soon as you start playing with it, it breaks. If you use a sidearm with a t-bolt it is no different then loosening the yoke bolt of a c-clamp. This is besides the fact that it is so much easier to focus a light that is on a sidearm rather than hanging off a boom by it's yoke.

An of course, I with gafftaper on this, why not safety them? It takes a whole 30 seconds to throw an extra c-clamp on a boom and safety all the lights that will reach to it. Sure, if your light is 6 inches off the deck at the bottom of the boom I can see not using the safety, but if you are any higher than the length of the safety you should be using it.

I'll see if I can grab a quick photo of one of my booms so you can see how I safety them.


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## avkid

charcoaldabs said:


> I don't follow about the chinese c-clamp. Would you mind elaborating on what it is?


A cheap piece of garbage that you should never buy.


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## gafftaper

charcoaldabs said:


> Secondly, I don't follow about the chinese c-clamp. Would you mind elaborating on what it is?



Charc there is a lot of low quality gear being sold here coming from overseas. If you are buying from a reputable dealer don't worry... you are getting good c-clamps. Just don't go on e-bay for the cheapest c-clamps you can find. 

[Hijack] It's a lot like buying chain, shackles, and other gear for overhead hanging. If it doesn't say made in the US and have the name of the company that made it don't buy it. If you need chain the rule usually is don't go to the hardware store go to Sapsis' or Fehr bros. website... or your local theater dealer. An exception to this has oddly appeared at my local Home Depot. They now are carrying a variety of Shackles and quick links made by Lehigh... which is a decent American made brand. But you always want to be careful and NEVER want to just buy the cheap Chinese chain sold at the hardware store. It may fail and that is a VERY bad thing. [Hijack ends]


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## gafftaper

Charc, I think Icewolf is calling the main bolt that connects the yoke to the c-clamp the "Jesus bolt". I've Never heard the term "Jesus bolt" but it makes sense to call it that and it also made me laugh a little. I took it as simply you don't mess with the bolt that is holding the instrument in the air unless you absolutely have to. Always use the small bolt up on the side of the c-clamp. 

His point being if you have a side arm that has a large "Jesus Bolt" and the small side bolt on it, moving it is just as secure as hanging it on a C-clamp... but it's a lot easier side mounted than working with just a c-clamp.


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## icewolf08

gafftaper said:


> Charc, I think Icewolf is calling the main bolt that connects the yoke to the c-clamp the "Jesus bolt". I've Never heard the term "Jesus bolt" but it makes sense to call it that and it also made me laugh a little. I took it as simply you don't mess with the bolt that is holding the instrument in the air unless you absolutely have to. Always use the small bolt up on the side of the c-clamp.
> His point being if you have a side arm that has a large "Jesus Bolt" and the small side bolt on it, moving it is just as secure as hanging it on a C-clamp... but it's a lot easier side mounted than working with just a c-clamp.



Actually, by the yoke bolt I mean the bolt on the c-clamp that connects to the yoke of the instrument. I am kind of surprised that it has never come up on the board before, but by the "Jesus bolt" or "F#*k-me-nut" I am referring to the little square nut on the side of the c-clamp whose official name is the pan-lock. I have always heard this little nut called this on account of it is so easy to break it off, which often causes much cursing. Hence why I avoid it unless needed.


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## gafftaper

Ok, in some ways that makes more sense and in some ways it doesn't. Yeah I've seen those pan-lock bolts broken off too. But as long as you don't crank on them they should hold just fine. In fact it takes very little force to get it to lock and unlock properly. I don't buy the idea of using the main yoke bolt instead of the pan lock bolt. I keep those yoke bolts clamped down tight and don't mess with them. I train all my students to just lightly tighten the pan-locks... and I haven't had any major problems yet.


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## icewolf08

gafftaper said:


> Ok, in some ways that makes more sense and in some ways it doesn't. Yeah I've seen those pan-lock bolts broken off too. But as long as you don't crank on them they should hold just fine. In fact it takes very little force to get it to lock and unlock properly. I don't buy the idea of using the main yoke bolt instead of the pan lock bolt. I keep those yoke bolts clamped down tight and don't mess with them. I train all my students to just lightly tighten the pan-locks... and I haven't had any major problems yet.



I guess it is a difference in how we were taught. As this is how I was taught in college.

Partially I think it has to do with how sensitive the pan-lock setup is, if you open it and close it enough times and it is consistent on who is doing it, the shaft that connects clamp to yoke gets damaged enough that you have to find just the right place to lock it down so that it doesn't wobble.

Then, consider being 24' in the air in the dark fumbling for a nut to move the light, it is a lot easier to grab the big one. If you are still using the original bolts from the c-lamps you should have plenty of threads that you would have to make about 15-20 revolutions to get it out. So is the light going to come down if you use that to focus, probably not, unless you are talking on your cell phone on top of the 24' a-frame extension ladder not paying attention (shame on you) which is when that safety cable would be a good thing.

I haven't (knock on wood) had a light fall on any shows that I have worked on. I have seen what happens when they do, thanks to someone kicking a light they were striking off a catwalk. It was an honest accident and no one was hurt, and it wasn't a show I worked on. Of the the other professionals I have worked with, I can't think of one who used the pan-lock for it's purpose.

Is it a big deal, probably not. If you feel safer doing things the way you were taught then you should do them that way, and not the way that a person you have never met says. I find it very interesting, a lot of things that I was taught in college from how to build a flat or platform to how to rig flying set pieces or practicals is just the ideal. You can walk into so many theatres and everyone will do the same task differently. Once I got out of school and saw this I started asking why, asked the TD why they did things one way when I was taught a different way. The answer usually is: "this is how I was taught" or "this is the way this theatre has been doing this for as long as anyone here can remember."

Wow, so I rambled on a bit there. I guess, the point is that I am not telling you that you are wrong or unsafe, and I don't think that you are telling me that. Differences in education and technique breed different ideas. The key, I suppose is that as long as you are aware of the risks of whatever way you choose to do something, you wll be able to do it safely.


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## stantonsound

Sorry I haven't responded to the questions. By "Chinese", I literally meant that they are made in China. The Jesus nut is a little plastic winged thing that breaks off quickly and the metal is soft cheap pot metal. When they are over tightened, they break very easily. They are heavy and look like the more expensive ones, so it is easy to get them confused. 

I agree that I try my best not to mess with the Jesus nut (or whatever you want to call it). That is why I like the mega clamps. I use megaclaws on the movers and megaclamps on the conventional's. 

As far as putting safties on sidearms/boom bases, etc... it is more difficult. I have seen people clip safties together and run them down from the electrics to the fixtures on these bases and sidearms. It is a personal choice on how to do it. I often mount movers to a pipe and base and have them at the back of the stage on in the wings. I clip the safety to the top of the pipe, or I have a few of the "O" rings that thread on the top of the pipe. I would hate to have a mover fall, or slide down it.


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## gafftaper

stantonsound said:


> That is why I like the mega clamps. I use megaclaws on the movers and megaclamps on the conventional's.



So I've been looking at Megaclamps... new theater, why not start with all megaclamps instead of basic C-clamps? The price is only a couple bucks more. Anybody not like megaclamps?


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## jonhirsh

To end the issue of fixtures sliding down a taildown or boom just place a cheeseborough affter the last fixture. 

JH


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## gafftaper

Rather than get side tracked here, I'm going to start a new thread in lighting to discuss mega clamps...


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## darkfield

charcoaldabs said:


> When I hang things vertically I tend to really lock 'em off, as we don't safety them in that situation, so I've always figured it's better to mess up the pipe a little, to make sure it really stays on there.
> 
> My concern with sidearms is that in order to pan, you have to loosen the bolt on the yoke. I personally like to have an instrument secure when focusing it. I personally only like loosening the bolt on the yoke when it is on the ground.
> 
> On the positive side of things though that is the procedure I use when hanging an instrument (fixture? I still don't know what I should be callin' 'em), only I tighten a little much. I also employ the two man rule for most hanging, and for all instruments on our main slots. I feel the position is too hazardous to be accomplished by one person, especially with a very heavy KL, and a narrow and hot (aka sweat on hands) space.


Instrument vs Fixture:

The professional word is "instrument", not "fixture", though of course you'll hear all sorts of incorrect stuff thrown around.

That's in theater, in construction/architecture realm it is a "luminaire" and not a "fixture" (and not a "light" or "lamp" which actually refers to what the hardward store calls a "bulb".) Fixtures are plumbing (in construction) and fixtures are things permanently attached to the structure (real estate).

Another one you'll hear wrong, and sometimes from people who should know better, is column versus post. The vertical framing member that bears weight is a column. A post is part of a fence or a wood-framed barn (post and beam construction).

Sorry to hear about the Chinese C-clamps. The stuff I worked with was handed down and cared for from the old days, weighed a ton, was older than I was, couldn't imagine it breaking. Safety cables? Harnesses? Don't forget your lighting helmet before you go on stage. .......


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## Grog12

Wow...thanks for the grammar lesson. Here's the problem, you'll work with many professionals who'll call it a fixture as well an instrument. Sometimes in the same breath. Its like the word leko..we all know what it is, but its like saying Kleenex for tissues.

In the theatre there's a thousand words for everything.


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## gafftaper

Yeah my vote is for Instrument as the "proper" term but you'll here a lot of fixture people out there. I wonder if this is one of those regional issues.


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## Grog12

Generally I'll refer to a single instrument by its type (Par, Fresnel, 6x) and a group of them as instruments. I've also gotten into the habit of calling moving lights fixtures which I imagine comes from programing a g-MA. But it helps me deliniate between a conventional light and a moving head light when I'm designing or programing.


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## Van

Darkfield, While I beleive you have a point, I think you also might be splitting hairs. Yes In the architectural world Lighting instruments are often refered to as Luminaire, they are also called fixtures when installed permenantly. Their purpose must also be considered, before arriving at a final definition. Instrument tends to be dominant in the theatrical industry, Fixture, in the R&R / Production Industry, Cinema will usually refer to the individual piece of equipment by it's nickname, Baby, babysoft, Inky, 6K, 10K etc., etc., ad nasuem. 

Your definition of Column versus Post is, I beleive, incorrect. If a Post is not load bearing then how do you explain the existence of a King or Queen post in window, door and rafter framing? To be safe, a Column is typically a Decorative weight bearing device or structure. For that matter not all columns are weight bearing, some are merely for decoration, and rarely will you find a column that is a single piece. 
And what then do we do with the lowly decorative fence post. It's a post, but bears no weight, but it's for show.?????


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## Logos

On a continent far far away, I was brought up to describe the object as a "Lantern" or "Luminaire" began running into "Instrument" more recently. As far as I am concerned it's only a "fixture" if it's permanent and the glass thing inside that glows is called a lamp or a bubble. 
Just locally at one theatre I worked we called ML's wobblies.
"Wobbley light technology." I've always liked that.


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## Grog12

Logos said:


> On a continent far far away, I was brought up to describe the object as a "Lantern" or "Luminaire" began running into "Instrument" more recently. As far as I am concerned it's only a "fixture" if it's permanent and the glass thing inside that glows is called a lamp or a bubble.
> Just locally at one theatre I worked we called ML's wobblies.
> "Wobbley light technology." I've always liked that.



When I was in Adelaide for the Fringe this past March I heard the term Wobbley for the first time. It made me laugh.

That being said my favorite winery is just outside of Adelaide and you should totally send me a few bottles because I can't find it stateside!


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## Logos

Which winery, we have so many great wineries and I am not overstating? I do like some California wines though. Not necesarily easy to get here. And where did you hear wobbly? I'm fascinated because I thought only about ten people in the world used that.
And if you come back again next year or at any future fringe PM me first maybe you can grab a home cooked meal while you are here.


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## Grog12

Paxton. You're right theres a lot of great winery's there but hands down Paxton Vineyards was my favorite. If you haven't had their '02 Shiraz you're missing out. And I'm not a white wine drinker but their chardonnay was fantastic.

I worked in the Nexus Cabert and the house tech used it.

I'd love to come back next year but I don't think my new employer sends shows to any Fringe festival.

Look for Raymond's from the Napa Valley if you like Cali wines.


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## Logos

Cool, I will try the Paxton wines and will look for the Raymonds. 
I was the resident at Holden Street Theatres where they did "What I Heard about Iraq." 
Hey if you ever do come back get in touch. Same goes for any CB'er get in touch if you ever pass through Adelaide.


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## Grog12

If memory serves we weren't that far away from each other. I actually wanted to make it to that show but didn't.

...I should probably move this to another thread as opposed to hijacking this one.....so I will over in Off Topic.


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## kadams17

how about a fire curtain that was cut during a prank and re hung and superglued to itself to stay up?

basically the rope got pulled back in and they attached a metal ball to the end, twisted it around a few times and superglued it to itself to keep it up.

safe eh?


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## willbb123

Wow Old thread, but interesting...

gafftaper said:


> We had a 6.8 magnitude earthquake hit here in 2001. I had 150 kids in my high school little theater watching a guest speaker. I was in the booth at the time. I watched and listened as about 25- 360Q's with 20+ year old C-clamps, hanging over the audience, banged together for about a minute. Luckily no c-clamps failed but I was sure glad I had safety cables.



Less then a month ago we had a rock concert, and they were really rockin... Lots of bass, loose plaster falling from the ceiling, that kinda stuff. While I was programming I had my crew go around and make sure every instrument in the house was secure and safetyed. Probably wasn't necessary but a good thing to do every once and a while. I told our FOH sound guy that I was gonna be pissed if I had to refocus any instruments after the concert. 

Never had a light fall, but I have had a lamp blow because of really loud feedback. 




gafftaper said:


> ...yes along with fire drills we have earthquake drills.


I used to live in CA, I miss earthquake drills. I was 7 or 8, back when kids were small enough to hide under there desks.
We did have a small earthquake in Iowa not too long ago. I slept trough the main quake, then was driving during a minor aftershock. I'm sad I didn't feel it.


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## Walshd5000

Just before a tech run at UNLV a 4-leaf barn door for an 8" fresnel fell because it was oriented 180-degrees off... about a week after the hang and focus. It fell 30 seconds after one of my compatriot ASM's and I moved off the platform. Put a pretty good size gash in the stair. Needless to say didn't tell the TD, the LD and crew went up quickly and looked at ALL the instruments. Yeah, fun time had by all. 
Two ceiling tiles fell from the rafters, above the fly system. Yeah, broke through the deck. We were stunned that it didn't hit a single rail.
It was an old theatre... Elvis played there.


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## crazi4now

Our biggest issue is lack of budget to supply enough staff to oversee user groups using the space. Prime example, I was in our scene shop helping the carpenters with a large set piece when I heard a commotion coming from the stage. I quickly went on deck to find that they had let a 12 year old bring in a set of our downstage legs and ended up knocking a set piece over and hitting his mom in the head with the batton. No one was seriously hurt thankfully, but the mom was blaming me for not telling them that the fly system could be dangerous. I wish I had a camera to take a picture of her standing right beside our big black, white and red DANGER, Do not operate linesets without proper approval by our staff. SEVERE BODILY INJURY AND EXTENSIVE PROPERTY DAMAGE MAY RESULT sign. Other than that, we run a pretty safe space.


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## nick2401

crazi4now said:


> . I wish I had a camera to take a picture of her standing right beside our big black, white and red DANGER, Do not operate linesets without proper approval by our staff. SEVERE BODILY INJURY AND EXTENSIVE PROPERTY DAMAGE MAY RESULT sign.




If only the theatre Gods were that kind. I've never had an instrument fail (As I quickly run around the house looking for some wood to knock on). But I have had actors run underneath the set while it is being flown in... that is about as unsafe as I can handle. ( No one was hurt except the mild rope burn on my hands)
~N


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## tjrobb

Unsafe, and scary.

I have a photo of the situation in my post on a 1920's theatre, but I'll save a re-post. My theatre was built in 1928, and most recently remodeled in the early 1980's. When they did this they added a single purchase fly system with ~30 sets... and no loading bridge!? 

I really hate rigging days, it's always fun to have 6 sweaty techs in a circle around a lineset trying to hoist it in to re-weigh it. GRRR!


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## Grommet

the only thing i have noticed are the bolts that hold the yoke to the clamp will become loose every now and then. 

there was one safety cable that looked like some one made. it was really thin cable, like string, with a dogclip on the end.


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## NickVon

gafftaper said:


> That sounds like a problem easily solved with some wire cutters.


 
or the poor man "audio ground lift" 

I've got some of these floating around all are BRIGHT ORANGE and have Neon Electrical tape and stay stored in a secret bucket unless one is needed. 

I use regular 3 prong edisons for anywhere i need power, unless for some reason i need another ground lift and i'm out of Direct Boxes.


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## derekleffew

NickVon said:


> ...and stay stored in a secret bucket unless one is needed. ...


Nick, see this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound/14800-hum-gone-no-ground.html. CB's Official Stance is that it's *never* acceptable to defeat the EGC.


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## Soxred93

NickVon said:


> or the poor man "audio ground lift"
> 
> I've got some of these floating around all are BRIGHT ORANGE and have Neon Electrical tape and stay stored in a secret bucket unless one is needed.
> 
> I use regular 3 prong edisons for anywhere i need power, unless for some reason i need another ground lift and i'm out of Direct Boxes.



I think that gaff was talking about how those cords should never be used, and thrown away.


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## Fred

Newest example - Community theatre I have recently come to was trying to fake a glass gobo - with overhead transparancy film and a standard computer printer. Worked for about 30 seconds.

Power strips in the rigging...

And not as much safety as a "well...****" - roadhouse I was working local crew for. Big overhead plaster dome (converted building). No problems in the past, and mid show a big chunk (~1 ft) suddenly dropped out. No heavy base, no big vibrations, just gave way. Unfortunately it was a packed house and it did hit someone. As far as I know she was fine (left via ambulance due to the bleeding head). Importance of periodic inspections...of everything.


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## cprted

Fred said:


> Newest example - Community theatre I have recently come to was trying to fake a glass gobo - with overhead transparancy film and a standard computer printer. Worked for about 30 seconds.


It actually does work, but you need a little fan attachment thing to keep the transparency cool and you can't run the intensity above about 70.


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## Fred

Good to know. From the smoke and melted mess, I suspect those details were omitted...


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## SethRoBoDean

I saw an electric run THROUGH the grid of a theatre because no one bothered to re-weight as they were pulling off instruments. The line got down to 2 instruments and then the break finally broke and the line shot like a rocket through the grid. The c-clamps on the two remaining instruments snapped and the fixtures fell to the stage leaving huge gouges. It was lucky that no one was hurt. As a result, I'm kind of a pain in the ass when it comes to re-weighting electrics during hangs/strikes.


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## museav

NickVon said:


> or the poor man "audio ground lift"
> 
> I've got some of these floating around all are BRIGHT ORANGE and have Neon Electrical tape and stay stored in a secret bucket unless one is needed.
> 
> I use regular 3 prong edisons for anywhere i need power, unless for some reason i need another ground lift and i'm out of Direct Boxes.


You do realize that the safety ground and audio shield are two different things? While lifting an audio shield is a less than ideal but acceptable practice, breaking the safety ground path is an NEC violation, potentially deadly and not an acceptable practice. There may be extenuating circumstances but if you have severe ground loop problems have you considered trying to resolve the underlying problems rather than employing potentially unsafe 'band aids'?

It is ironic that devices intended specifically to provide a continuous safety ground path (connecting modern equipment utilizing a dedicated safety ground conductor to older power distribution systems that use the metallic conduit and boxes as the ground path) are so often improperly used for exactly the opposite purpose.


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## chris325

cprted said:


> It actually does work, but you need a little fan attachment thing to keep the transparency cool and you can't run the intensity above about 70.



Using transparency "gobos" works really well with the Selecon Pacific line of elllipsoidals. They heavily advertise how it's possible to use one without a need for a fan or intensity adjustment. 

Here's a good idea of how it works well with Selecon.


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## Sayen

That might be my new favorite internet video.


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## zmb

How about the director that stands on the top of an A-frame ladder holding on to batten being secured with chain (no fly system) while attaching stuff?

Or the theatre that abuses portable dimmer strips to the point that the fuse holders snap off the circuit board (trying to using a 750w lamp off a 600w dimmer)?


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## RJ917

How many people out there actually check the flame certs on their soft goods? Obviously if you use IFR soft goods, it's not too much of a worry, but how many people are working in venues where they have "mystery fabric" hanging on stage? 

I'm sure everyone uses fire retardant paint or coats lumber/paper with flamex right? 

Couple the zip line and household extension cords from the previous posts with dry tinder on stage and you may be lighting your show real candle power, if you know what I mean!

If you have a pro active fire official/inspector, you may have been called on your soft goods and scenery, but there are also inspectors/officials who don't know all the ins and outs. 

Regardless of the old saying "I've never had that happen and I've been here 30 years", there's a first time for everything, and I don't know about any one else here, but I rather make the headlines for the awesome show, not being the one who helped burn down the house!

Be safe,
Rich


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## cdub260

RJ917 said:


> Regardless of the old saying "I've never had that happen and I've been here 30 years", there's a first time for everything, and I don't know about any one else here, but I rather make the headlines for the awesome show, not being the one who helped burn down the house!



Hmm. Fame?

Or infamy?


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## TheLightmaster

Me and Sk8rsdad were checking some things and I found a Source 4 in the SR tech gallery that had no safety chain.


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## MarshallPope

TheLightmaster said:


> Me and Sk8rsdad were checking some things and I found a Source 4 in the SR tech gallery that had no safety chain.



I was up in our FOH position a couple of weeks ago and found a s4 with a safety cable that was just wrapped around the yoke, not the pipe. I can't help but wonder if whoever hung the instrument thought that the safety would somehow help.


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## Ryan5443

Although I hate to admit it we have some pretty poor practices in the theatre, such as multiple people in the Genie at one time, striking some disposable set pieces by dropping them 30' from the first bridge, or not putting the safety back in the manual winch after we finish working. But one of may favorite events was when we decided build a 30' tree (40' to the grid) and after the show we decided to detach the chains and just push... made a loud bang and some of the lathing strips and burlap came off, so cleanup was a breeze.

All the Best,
RCF


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