# Where is the front and back of items on a truck.



## AlwaysLearning

When unloading or loading a truck what is considered the front and back or an item such as road case or set cart? Definitely a safety issues when you need direction. This question of refers to while it is still on the truck.


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## RonHebbard

AlwaysLearning said:


> When unloading or loading a truck what is considered the front and back or an item such as road case or set cart? Definitely a safety issues when you need direction. This question of refers to while it is still on the truck.


Hello *@AlwaysLearning* While you're waiting for the rest of the world to wake up and recover from the excesses of Christmas, I'll ask a few queries / variables in no particular order: 
- Is the truck parked on a level surface; level both cab to rear door(s) and side to side*?* 
- Are all of the loads on casters*?* 
- Do all of the loads have handles and / or grip-able grips and on how many sides*?* 
- Are you unloading through a rear door(s) or a side door*?* 
- How heavy is each load item, are they all one person loads or will you require multiple / coordinated workers to counter gravity; both rolling and elevating*?* 
- Are all loads on the truck bed, opposed to stored overhead on load bars*?* 
- If the loads are on casters, are all casters straight, all swivels or a mix of swivels on one end and straights on the other OR two straights in the centre with one swivel centred on either end*?* 
There's a few points to ponder to get things "rolling" (pardon the pun) I'm sure others will post if they haven;t while I;m typing. 
SEASON'S BEST!!!  
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## SteveB

AlwaysLearning said:


> When unloading or loading a truck what is considered the front and back or an item such as road case or set cart? Definitely a safety issues when you need direction. This question of refers to while it is still on the truck.



Front and back are pretty standard terms. Front of any vehicle is the direction it is driven (excepting when backing up, obviously), has the engine (almost always), drivers cab, steerable wheels, etc.,.. thus any truck box would follow the same terminology as used for the vehicle, front of the box is towards where the cab Is located. When your Dad/Mom told to “ride up front” you knew at any early age, what they meant. Nothing’s changed,

Road cases can be anything as they can be built in any desired fashion. If a case needs to be located in a part of the box, that’s the job of the person calling the load. Cases that need to go in a certain way need to be clearly marked as such.

Just curious as to the reason for the question. Is Front and Back not understood by some folks ?.


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## TimMc

There are at least 4 sides to every case....

In our shop all cases, racks and carts have a label. If the worker can read (??) the label, he/she/they are pushing from the correct side. The front of any rack is the side the mounting rails are on. The front of any cart is marked and usually we have yellow arrow stickers showing "push this way". It's amazing how many hands cannot follow symbols, let alone written instructions. All our racks, for example, are marked as stage left or stage right, and work trunks are similarly marked. I spend the first 15 minutes of a load in pushing racks and cases to their proper place.

Loudspeakers like EAW's KF850 are pushed like an arrow - narrow point facing the direction of travel. The components are mounted to the interior face of the speaker and it's very grille-side heavy. Push it from the wrong side and hit a crack in the concrete or a small obstruction of the floor (screw, nail, debris) and it tips right over.

In loading a truck it's best if items can go in oriented as they will be in the truck pack as some items will not turn 180 inside the trailer (flats, set & deck carts, usually). When unloading racks it's best if they come down the ramp "light end first" which usually mean the rack's BACK side proceeds down the ramp, with the "front" on the up hill end. This helps keep the ramp from tipping over when it reaches the bottom of the ramp. Ditto for reverse is you're pushing items up the ramp - you want the light end of the item preceding, otherwise there is a tendency for the rack to tip over onto the ramp.


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## AlwaysLearning

SteveB said:


> Front and back are pretty standard terms. Front of any vehicle is the direction it is driven (excepting when backing up, obviously), has the engine (almost always), drivers cab, steerable wheels, etc.,.. thus any truck box would follow the same terminology as used for the vehicle, front of the box is towards where the cab Is located. When your Dad/Mom told to “ride up front” you knew at any early age, what they meant. Nothing’s changed,
> 
> Road cases can be anything as they can be built in any desired fashion. If a case needs to be located in a part of the box, that’s the job of the person calling the load. Cases that need to go in a certain way need to be clearly marked as such.
> 
> Just curious as to the reason for the question. Is Front and Back not understood by some folks ?.



Again, we are only trying to identify FRONT and REAR of an object IN the truck. Not the truck itself or how it will be positioned, located, stored...Trying to keep it simple not to muddy the question. Anyhow, going with your "When your Dad/Mom told to “ride up front” you knew at any early age, what they meant. Nothing’s changed,". So you are in the front seat, you are holding a pizza in a box, the driver hits the brake and your mom yells to you to grab onto the FRONT of the pizza box. Do you grab the end of the pizza box towards the head lights or tail lights? Keeping in mind your are a child and direction of the vehicle means nothing to you. 

Is Front and Back not understood by some folks ?. Yes, it is not clear. I was taught many years ago that the front of anything on a truck is towards the headlights of the truck whether it is in motion or stopped. Now it seems that all that I survey go by the direction of the motion on the object. To me this is unsafe. Imagine if the top motor case box of a triple take is just sitting on the truck, not in motion, should happen to fall. If the top box was falling towards the headlights the you could give warning more accurately by saying grab the front.


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## AlwaysLearning

Again, we are only trying to identify FRONT and REAR of an object IN the truck. Not the truck itself or how it will be positioned, located, stored...Trying to keep it simple not to muddy the question. Anyhow, going with your "When your Dad/Mom told to “ride up front” you knew at any early age, what they meant. Nothing’s changed,". So you are in the front seat, you are holding a pizza in a box, the driver hits the brake and your mom yells to you to grab onto the FRONT of the pizza box. Do you grab the end of the pizza box towards the head lights or tail lights? Keeping in mind your are a child and direction of the vehicle means nothing to you.

Is Front and Back not understood by some folks ?. Yes, it is not clear. I was taught many years ago that the front of anything on a truck is towards the headlights of the truck whether it is in motion or stopped. Now it seems that all that I survey go by the direction of the motion on the object. To me this is unsafe. Imagine if the top motor case box of a triple take is just sitting on the truck, not in motion, should happen to fall. If the top box was falling towards the headlights the you could give warning more accurately by saying grab the front.






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## AlwaysLearning

TimMc said:


> There are at least 4 sides to every case....
> 
> In our shop all cases, racks and carts have a label. If the worker can read (??) the label, he/she/they are pushing from the correct side. The front of any rack is the side the mounting rails are on. The front of any cart is marked and usually we have yellow arrow stickers showing "push this way". It's amazing how many hands cannot follow symbols, let alone written instructions. All our racks, for example, are marked as stage left or stage right, and work trunks are similarly marked. I spend the first 15 minutes of a load in pushing racks and cases to their proper place.
> 
> Loudspeakers like EAW's KF850 are pushed like an arrow - narrow point facing the direction of travel. The components are mounted to the interior face of the speaker and it's very grille-side heavy. Push it from the wrong side and hit a crack in the concrete or a small obstruction of the floor (screw, nail, debris) and it tips right over.
> 
> In loading a truck it's best if items can go in oriented as they will be in the truck pack as some items will not turn 180 inside the trailer (flats, set & deck carts, usually). When unloading racks it's best if they come down the ramp "light end first" which usually mean the rack's BACK side proceeds down the ramp, with the "front" on the up hill end. This helps keep the ramp from tipping over when it reaches the bottom of the ramp. Ditto for reverse is you're pushing items up the ramp - you want the light end of the item preceding, otherwise there is a tendency for the rack to tip over onto the ramp.


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## AlwaysLearning

Thank to all who replied. I might be getting a little off topic but I feel I should share. My years of experience right or wrong. 
Do not go into the truck unless invited. 
It is a good idea to have 4 loaders on the truck for safety. Too mant people on a truck gets dangerous too. Watch out for each other. Notice danger. Are load bars upside down that could fall? Is there somethings in FRONT of the road case the person breaking the strap can't see.that will fall? I have seen stacks of plywood, base plate, scaffolding placed front to back as opposed to side to side that would have done serious damage if someone was not watching and putting a hand on it before breaking the strap
Do not break the strap or proceed unless told to by the client/owner/lead. I have seen many times where we were not going to use that ruck or item and have to redo. Notify you are breaking the strap and make sure there are others loader around to have your back. 
Do not lean load bar on sides of truck or something that could roll away. Do no drop load bars on truck deck. I personally know people that have tinnitus cause by this. 
Personally I load drivers wall, passenger wall the middle. be sure to call it as such. "Drivers wall, as is (or 90), wheel to the...sky, center, drivers wall...I have heard term to the outside. To me this is drivers or passenger wall. not the back of the trailer. I usually try not to give either/or option of direction as this will confuse loaders. There are more than one. Keep an eye on placement of racket straps before you put the last case in. It seems like always we have to pull out case every time we need to set a strap. Straps should be set/etack forward of the back of the case to compress load forward as opposed to compressing the truck walls. Pull all slack out of strap before you ratchet making sure strap is not binding. I close ratchet making sure slot is lined up to insert strap. If truck is loaded same way each time I break straps in the middle and weave strap into etrack hole to get it out of the way. I don't use bungees to hold ratchets. I have had racks/cart grab these barely missing my eye. 
If on a grade push case up the center of the trailer then to drives or passenger wall. This turn the wheel parallel. but be careful. It could still roll away. never turn you back on a load. 
Hamper then a solid box before strapping if possible.. This keeps hamper from being crushed by ratchet. 
4 man lift even if box is empty. This also keeps the rhythm. Download / push to side row of top cases before one loader takes a case to rear of trailer so other 3 don't have to wait. Short people on front, taller on back. Opposite on loft suck as truss. 
Never put hand/body where it can get crushed.
Never push anything onto the truck unless asked. Make sure a loader has item before walking away. 
Handle towards the back or trailer if possible. Lift cases from bottom. Handle do come off as well as lids.

This is just a potpourri of stuff and I am sure I missed a lot I wanted to add. Anyhow I hope it does someone good.


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## RonHebbard

AlwaysLearning said:


> Thank to all who replied. I might be getting a little off topic but I feel I should share. My years of experience right or wrong.
> Do not go into the truck unless invited.
> It is a good idea to have 4 loaders on the truck for safety. Too mant people on a truck gets dangerous too. Watch out for each other. Notice danger. Are load bars upside down that could fall? Is there somethings in FRONT of the road case the person breaking the strap can't see.that will fall? I have seen stacks of plywood, base plate, scaffolding placed front to back as opposed to side to side that would have done serious damage if someone was not watching and putting a hand on it before breaking the strap
> Do not break the strap or proceed unless told to by the client/owner/lead. I have seen many times where we were not going to use that ruck or item and have to redo. Notify you are breaking the strap and make sure there are others loader around to have your back.
> Do not lean load bar on sides of truck or something that could roll away. Do no drop load bars on truck deck. I personally know people that have tinnitus cause by this.
> Personally I load drivers wall, passenger wall the middle. be sure to call it as such. "Drivers wall, as is (or 90), wheel to the...sky, center, drivers wall...I have heard term to the outside. To me this is drivers or passenger wall. not the back of the trailer. I usually try not to give either/or option of direction as this will confuse loaders. There are more than one. Keep an eye on placement of racket straps before you put the last case in. It seems like always we have to pull out case every time we need to set a strap. Straps should be set/etack forward of the back of the case to compress load forward as opposed to compressing the truck walls. Pull all slack out of strap before you ratchet making sure strap is not binding. I close ratchet making sure slot is lined up to insert strap. If truck is loaded same way each time I break straps in the middle and weave strap into etrack hole to get it out of the way. I don't use bungees to hold ratchets. I have had racks/cart grab these barely missing my eye.
> If on a grade push case up the center of the trailer then to drives or passenger wall. This turn the wheel parallel. but be careful. It could still roll away. never turn you back on a load.
> Hamper then a solid box before strapping if possible.. This keeps hamper from being crushed by ratchet.
> 4 man lift even if box is empty. This also keeps the rhythm. Download / push to side row of top cases before one loader takes a case to rear of trailer so other 3 don't have to wait. Short people on front, taller on back. Opposite on loft suck as truss.
> Never put hand/body where it can get crushed.
> Never push anything onto the truck unless asked. Make sure a loader has item before walking away.
> Handle towards the back or trailer if possible. Lift cases from bottom. Handle do come off as well as lids.
> 
> This is just a potpourri of stuff and I am sure I missed a lot I wanted to add. Anyhow I hope it does someone good.


 * @AlwaysLearning* 
Either you're confusing me, I'm confusing me, OR my 5 decades of experience have left me _TOTALLY_ confused (which is entirely possible): 

*Quoting You*: "My years of experience right or wrong." + "Opposite on loft suck as truss." Is likely Crystal Clear in your mind. Possibly I'm confused; personally I can't remember a time I've 'sucked as truss', neither in a truck, on a dock, nor on stage. *@TimMc* Can you help me out here?*?* 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## macsound

I'm confused on what the question is


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## derekleffew

AlwaysLearning said:


> So you are in the front seat, you are holding a pizza in a box, the driver hits the brake and your mom yells to you to grab onto the FRONT of the pizza box. Do you grab the end of the pizza box towards the head lights or tail lights? Keeping in mind your are a child and direction of the vehicle means nothing to you.


Pretty sure we all agree that the FRONT of the  box is opposite the hinge, so it doesn't matter at all where the head/tail lights are.


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## TimMc

derekleffew said:


> Pretty sure we all agree that the FRONT of the  box is opposite the hinge, so it doesn't matter at all where the head/tail lights are.


Why are you putting the pizza in the truck in the first place?


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## Van

TimMc said:


> Why are you putting the pizza in the truck in the first place?


Shouldn't the pizza be on a road case, on the dock and who cares where the front or back is if it's a pizza box on a job it should just be labelled 'MT'. Pizza boxes don't have wheels BTW.


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## josh88

The front of a case in the truck can be oriented towards the rear of the truck. The end of the truck toward the cab is the front. If a case is oriented so that it is backwards or sideways even, the side facing the cab doesn't become the front of the case. The front remains whatever has been determined on the case, no matter what direction it is facing (dependant on how it opens, whats in it, where the rails are etc)

I'm not super particular about what side gets loaded how, except that the load is balanced so that you dont have a majority of the weight on one side of the truck. Most of the time we've figured that out in advance and have a planned pack already.


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## Ben Stiegler

Pizza box labeled as MT =?? "My tuck?" Or ?


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## Malabaristo

Ben Stiegler said:


> Pizza box labeled as MT =?? "My tuck?" Or ?


Might make more sense if you say it out loud 

Spoiler



MT==Empty... at least in this context


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## SteveB

Pizza boxes really need a "This Side Up" on them.


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## Ben Stiegler

Malabaristo said:


> Might make more sense if you say it out loud
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> MT==Empty... at least in this context


Oooooh.


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## bclighting

I am totally baffled by this thread, I feel like there is some over engineering going on.

To me the truck has a Nose and Tail. The part of the case or cart in the truck toward the nose is always the front (even if it is labeled differently). Then you can say things like "is there a load bar in front of that row" and it makes sense.


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## Malabaristo

As far as I can tell.... (for whatever that's worth)... This all started with a situation where someone made reference to the "front" of an object in a truck, and then there was much confusion over whether the object had its own unique and specific front, or whether the front of the object was always defined by the end facing the front of the truck. 

My takeaway is that trying to work off of a rule like that is more likely to cause confusion, so it's better to find ways of describing things that don't rely on arbitrary definitions. I tend to say things like "My end, your end, Ron's end, or *that* end (*with pointing)" because I can't assume the person I'm talking to knows what I mean by "front" unless it's clearly labeled. Left and right would be just as confusing unless you're sure to always say, "my left", "your left", or "stage left".

I really hope no one is actually confused about which end of the truck is the front...


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## Ben Stiegler

There's an existential comedy sketch lurking in here somewhere ...


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## AlwaysLearning

Not sure how the truss part got mangled. It should read something like...when putting truss or equivalent up on load bars it makes sense to have taller people on, what I call, the FRONT of truss. Front being the side of the truss facing the front of the truck, trailer or headlight if you will. My goal in being a bit vague in asking "What is considered the front or back of an object in a trailer?" was not to influence my opinion on what I call the front or back. I was taught many years ago the front of an object, road case, prop, load bar....was the side facing the headlights of the truck and never questioned it until new hands starting saying they were taught the the front of and object was the direction it is moving. Which to me is very dangerous too me. Where is the front if not in motion? example: A truss sitting on the deck of the trailer, Some one says grab the back. What end do you grab? Four loaders lifting a road case to stack on another one. Someone says lower the back end. Where is the back end? A deck cart on a lift gate where it is staring to roll off to crush hands.


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## AlwaysLearning

bclighting said:


> I am totally baffled by this thread, I feel like there is some over engineering going on.
> 
> To me the truck has a Nose and Tail. The part of the case or cart in the truck toward the nose is always the front (even if it is labeled differently). Then you can say things like "is there a load bar in front of that row" and it makes sense.


Not sure how the truss part got mangled. It should read something like...when putting truss or equivalent up on load bars it makes sense to have taller people on, what I call, the FRONT of truss. Front being the side of the truss facing the front of the truck, trailer or headlight if you will. My goal in being a bit vague in asking "What is considered the front or back of an object in a trailer?" was not to influence my opinion on what I call the front or back. I was taught many years ago the front of an object, road case, prop, load bar....was the side facing the headlights of the truck and never questioned it until new hands starting saying they were taught the the front of and object was the direction it is moving. Which to me is very dangerous too me. Where is the front if not in motion? example: A truss sitting on the deck of the trailer, Some one says grab the back. What end do you grab? Four loaders lifting a road case to stack on another one. Someone says lower the back end. Where is the back end? A deck cart on a lift gate where it is staring to roll off to crush hands.


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## Malabaristo

AlwaysLearning said:


> Some one says grab the back. What end do you grab?



This just demonstrates my earlier point that you're approaching this the wrong way: the words "front" and "back" are inherently ambiguous on many objects. Rather than expecting everyone to know your personal definition for those two words in this context, you should be encouraging the use of language that is either more rigidly defined or more descriptive. If you say, "Grab the end of the truss towards the front of the truck." that's descriptive enough for me to know exactly what you mean. If you say, "Grab the front of the truss...", then I'll have to stop and ask what you mean.

This kind of thing is where it's important to realize that communication is a two-way street. If just one person doesn't understand what you're saying, then it might be their problem. If multiple people don't understand you, that's a pretty good sign you should try saying it differently.


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## Lynnchesque

There is an unmarked stick of truss on the arena floor. You are told to grab the front end and take it to the loading bay. Which end do you pick up?
There is an unmarked stick of truss on the loading bay floor. You are told to grab the front end and take it to the arena floor. Which end do you pick up?
In neither of those instances is a hand going to consider the orientation of the nose/tail of the trucks. 9 times out of 10 you will take your cue from the intended direction. I get your point, really, but that's just how language works sometimes. 

If a deck cart is rolling off a lift gate, you yell heads up and get the fark out of the way.


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## themuzicman

AlwaysLearning said:


> Thank to all who replied. I might be getting a little off topic but I feel I should share. My years of experience right or wrong.
> 
> Do not go into the truck unless invited.
> It is a good idea to have 4 loaders on the truck for safety.
> Too mant people on a truck gets dangerous too.
> Watch out for each other. Notice danger.
> Are load bars upside down that could fall?
> Is there somethings in FRONT of the road case the person breaking the strap can't see.that will fall?
> I have seen stacks of plywood, base plate, scaffolding placed front to back as opposed to side to side that would have done serious damage if someone was not watching and putting a hand on it before breaking the strap
> 
> Do not break the strap or proceed unless told to by the client/owner/lead.
> I have seen many times where we were not going to use that ruck or item and have to redo. Notify you are breaking the strap and make sure there are others loader around to have your back.
> 
> Do not lean load bar on sides of truck or something that could roll away.
> Do no drop load bars on truck deck.
> I personally know people that have tinnitus cause by this.
> 
> Personally I load drivers wall, passenger wall the middle. be sure to call it as such.
> "Drivers wall, as is (or 90), wheel to the...sky, center, drivers wall...I have heard term to the outside. To me this is drivers or passenger wall. not the back of the trailer.
> 
> I usually try not to give either/or option of direction as this will confuse loaders. There are more than one.
> Keep an eye on placement of racket straps before you put the last case in. It seems like always we have to pull out case every time we need to set a strap.
> Straps should be set/etack forward of the back of the case to compress load forward as opposed to compressing the truck walls.
> Pull all slack out of strap before you ratchet making sure strap is not binding.
> I close ratchet making sure slot is lined up to insert strap.
> If truck is loaded same way each time I break straps in the middle and weave strap into etrack hole to get it out of the way. I don't use bungees to hold ratchets.
> I have had racks/cart grab these barely missing my eye.
> 
> If on a grade push case up the center of the trailer then to drives or passenger wall. This turn the wheel parallel. but be careful. It could still roll away. never turn you back on a load.
> Hamper then a solid box before strapping if possible..
> This keeps hamper from being crushed by ratchet.
> 
> 4 man lift even if box is empty. This also keeps the rhythm.
> Download / push to side row of top cases before one loader takes a case to rear of trailer so other 3 don't have to wait.
> Short people on front, taller on back. Opposite on loft suck as truss.
> 
> Never put hand/body where it can get crushed.
> Never push anything onto the truck unless asked.
> Make sure a loader has item before walking away.
> Handle towards the back or trailer if possible. Lift cases from bottom. Handle do come off as well as lids.
> 
> This is just a potpourri of stuff and I am sure I missed a lot I wanted to add. Anyhow I hope it does someone good.



I load/unload my trailers on all my tours and agree with almost all of your rules. It's really impressive how many Loaders don't have a clue how to load a truck, I'd honestly print out half of these and put them on the walls of a trailer for those who don't know. (The other half may give new loaders some initiative to try to pack my truck for me!) Sorry...I had to organize your list to provide some order to the chaos!

As for your original question:

I don't think the Front/Back of an object is really the important part as it pertains to pushing-to or loading a truck. On an audio rack I call one side the working front and one side the patching front -- and on a lot of my touring racks the distinction between what's the more useful side you want constant access to can be hazy. On a cable trunk it's easy, it's the side opposite the hinge that's the front. But what about a mover box that has a pop off top? Is it the side of a set cart that the scenery comes off of, or the size that rolls into the truck first?

At a certain point you may just need to label a side Front or Back just for the sake of having a sign to point at so you can give precise instruction. I do this on my touring audio racks just so 1. Lids get put on correctly (that dented latch only fits just-so on the side it's meant for!) 2. I line up Ampland correctly in the morning and don't have to flip a rack. ETC road dimmer racks I label Front and Back on the sides just for the sake of safe pushing -- the working front and patching front both have handles, but when pressure is applied they pop out and guillotine toes so you have to pull from the sides. Sometimes it's a safety thing for the pushers.

When I'm calling a truck I use short adjective-heavy phrases to describe both the box I'm looking for and how it should be pushed. "IE Find the Cable Trunk that says 'X', one person on each skinny side and push towards the left truck". On shows with repeat packs I go as far as to color code every box or scenic element that hits my truck - you and I know what a cable trunk is, but does the college work-study kid or freelance day-laborer know a cable trunk from an amp rack? They are all differently shaped square boxes to enough people so going "find the knee-high box with red tape that says 'X' " is better than a description-by-purpose. I try to shoot for 3 adjectives and hope that any 2 of the 3 will fetch me the correct box.

Anyhow, my name of the game is call a truck with enough adjectives to keep people safe and get the correct object to the correct location. You can't assume all people can work safely without input. It's the same once it's in the truck -- "Turn it 90 degrees and take it to the driver wall" or my favorite "Turn the box like a hotdog/hamburger to the driver wall", no need for saying Front or Back. Adjective-heavy phrases in the truck too to keep people safe and give them precise instruction on how to move irregularly sized objects.


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## bclighting

To me the front of the item is always the side toward the front of the truck. I try to avoid using terms that could be misconstrued. For example, if the item is being pushed in I will say "Straight in" or "Turn 90" if it is something like a setcart I will refer to something that cannot (hopefully) be mistaken such as "open side to the passenger wall". The only time I would use front or back would be when I'm flipping things, "wheels to the back". Again this is in the absolutes of the truck front and back.

This thread is actually a perfect example how things can get mis-interpreted.


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## SS Minnow

Why do round pizzas come in square boxes?


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## TimMc

SS Minnow said:


> Why do round pizzas come in square boxes?


So the bass-playing delivery driver can't use them as a Frisbee®


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