# Making a Cyc



## CSCTech (Mar 18, 2012)

Hello,

We recently put on a production of Footloose! The Musical last weekend and we had rented a cyc for the show as we don't own one but do have sufficient lighting to light one. 
I really enjoyed how it looked and it really gave the stage more depth which was great because we have a pretty small area to begin with.

Anyway, I would like to look into making a cyc so we can always have one. Buying one is out of the question due to us being a high school with absolutely no budget other then what the two Drama clubs have (neither of which have an actual budget as well) so needless to say, funding for technical assets is not very high. Especially $2,000 for a white or blue sheet.

Someone mentioned to me that it could be done with canvas, and we would just need to figure out a way to rig it which would be easy enough. But it would also need to be fire proofed.

Has anyone tried this? What material should I look for? Also what would be the best way to get it fire proofed, having the fire department do it or use a product?

Thanks!


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## MarshallPope (Mar 19, 2012)

Take a look through Rose Brand's online catalog at their various bleached flame retardant muslins. You just might realize that you'd be spending close to the same amount as you would to buy one. Think about the size you need and whether or not seams are acceptable. 

For a cheap alternative that won't quite light the same but could get you by, look at their Tent Liner fabric.


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## kicknargel (Mar 19, 2012)

For making your own cyc I would highly recommend this:

128" Poly Muslin, <span style='color:red'>IFR</span> from Rose Brand

Synthetic muslin from rose brand. It's wide, and it's inherently flame retardant, which means you'll never have to worry about re-treating, etc. 

Here's a thread about making a backdrop:

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/scenery-props-rigging/22472-backdrop-seam.html

But consider getting a quote from Rosebrand for the stitching. The labor cost is way less than the material, and they will do a better job than you (or I) can do.


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## tprewitt (Mar 19, 2012)

Cycs are really pretty easy to sew and can be done with a good consumer level sewing machine. (Unlike velours which take the horse power of a commercial machine.) A serger makes it even easier. It's the seamless fabric that makes them so blasted expensive.

First I'd price out a seamed, natural muslin, cyc. (shameless plug to follow) from your local BellaTEX dealer...  It may be way more affordable than you think, especially if you can tweak the size a little to be the most efficient. And bonus, it'll be FR.

Costs on the build your own, may turnout to be higher than expected by the time your done because you'll have to buy all the fabric, jute, grommets, etc at retail and you'll need a grommet setting tool, etc. 

But enough with the gloom & doom...Muslin from Wal-Mart or the local fabric store will do the trick and should only cost you just a few bucks a yard. It will be lighter weight than the cyc you rented for sure, but it will work just fine. There are commercial FR treatments you put on with a Hudson sprayer. They work ok, if you get the fabric saturated, but then it leaves a yucky residue. (The residue is what makes it FR, no residue, no FR.) They are expensive, $40 or so a gallon as I recall. 

There are formulas for an FR treatment floating around you can cook up at home with Borax and other household items. From what I've seen they actually perform a little better than some of the commercial products. I don't remember the formula, but perhaps someone can post it for you. This would be the place.

Good luck. If I can help with how to put it together, or anything, just let me know. We make quite a few of them.


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## DuckJordan (Mar 19, 2012)

Seeing as its a high school student, I don't think they should go messing around with house hold chemicals. as others have said, the cost of making one yourself generally comes in higher than what you can purchase. I'm sure your theater department has some budget, I remember when I was in high school my director told me we have no budget at all. Only after I graduated did I find out the truth in that there was a budget, Just he felt that it shouldn't be told to students, Hence "No budget". Since you are a student, you should talk with your teacher or sponser, or director or whatever is in charge and ask them about getting a cyc. Generally when students come and say we should buy this, this and this, they see it as toe stepping. Explain your reasons behind wanting to get a cyc, let them decide whether its a good choice or not. There may be other factors as to why you don't have one normally.


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## josh88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Also a good point to remember is there is no such thing as fire proof, just flame retardant. A point my old fire Marshall liked to make. Eventually you need to retreat fabrics.


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## shiben (Mar 19, 2012)

DuckJordan said:


> Seeing as its a high school student, I don't think they should go messing around with house hold chemicals.



I dont think mixing up some flame retardant is particularly bad. Now if we were telling them how to mix up some PETN to paint on the cyc, we would have a different story...Otherwise, its thinking a bit too far into it...


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## headcrab (Mar 19, 2012)

shiben said:


> Now if we were telling them how to mix up some PETN to paint on the cyc, we would have a different story...



That would be an amusing effect.


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## CSCTech (Mar 19, 2012)

Just got around to checking the price on fabric from Rose Brand that kicknargel suggested, we would need 10 yards in width (30 feet wide stage) and since it only comes in 128" the other length, we would need two of 10 yard sheets and sew them together which would come too $302 which isn't bad at all. (We would be going for 15x30 feet)

There would be plenty of extra fabric to make a pipe pocket too which we really could of used with the one we rented. I don't know how to fasten grommets on fabric but I assume it isn't too hard to do. Plus being FR by nature is another plus.

That might be the way to go, any thoughts?


As soon as I can I will get some quotes on premade ones.

Thanks!


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## josh88 (Mar 19, 2012)

Grommets are time consuming but pretty easy, some google and tests on scrap fabric and you'll understand how it works pretty fast


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## Footer (Mar 19, 2012)

CSCTech said:


> Just got around to checking the price on fabric from Rose Brand that kicknargel suggested, we would need 10 yards in width (30 feet wide stage) and since it only comes in 128" the other length, we would need two of 10 yard sheets and sew them together which would come too $302 which isn't bad at all. (We would be going for 15x30 feet)
> 
> There would be plenty of extra fabric to make a pipe pocket too which we really could of used with the one we rented. I don't know how to fasten grommets on fabric but I assume it isn't too hard to do. Plus being FR by nature is another plus.
> 
> ...



I have built one on fairly short notice before. Few things to consider... 

You need a lot of space. You also need a good machine. Finally... you really need to know how to sew and how to be consitant. Sewing a straight line for 40' is not exactly easy. Once small pucker and your done. Doing the pipe pocket is the hardest part, especially if you want to do it properly with a skirt. Jute will also need to be purchased for the top. Finally, you need to buy a grommet die which really are not cheap. 

I still think you would be best off to have someone do this for you. It is harder then it looks. On the cheap, you could order a drop with a standard finish. It will be rougher muslin then is usually used on cycs but it will work.


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## kicknargel (Mar 20, 2012)

I had Rosebrand build a 40x20 out of the poly mus, and it was like $600. It's going seamless that makes the price really shoot up.

Footer, I'm interested in your expensive grommet die. I use the kits from Home Despot, which are cheap and seem to work just fine. Sometime I even just use scissors to cut little Xes to put the grommets through. To be frank, it seems lots of people complain about grommeting and I don't get it. I feel if you're spending more than 30 seconds per grommet you're doing it wrong. Am I missing something?


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## CSCTech (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone, I have submitted a request for a quote for a sky blue poly 15'x30' seamed drop which a back pipe pocket with skirt and velcrow top ties. I'll let you know what it comes too as soon as I get the quote.

Thanks again!


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## josh88 (Mar 20, 2012)

kicknargel said:


> to be frank, it seems lots of people complain about grommeting and I don't get it. I feel if you're spending more than 30 seconds per grommet you're doing it wrong. Am I missing something?



Even at only 30 secs per grommet, punching through Muslin/ other fabric and the jute as well how many you need to do, it's just time consuming and tiring work.



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## shiben (Mar 20, 2012)

kicknargel said:


> Footer, I'm interested in your expensive grommet die. I use the kits from Home Despot, which are cheap and seem to work just fine. Sometime I even just use scissors to cut little Xes to put the grommets through. To be frank, it seems lots of people complain about grommeting and I don't get it. I feel if you're spending more than 30 seconds per grommet you're doing it wrong. Am I missing something?



Its boring and you have to do a lot of them...


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## kicknargel (Mar 20, 2012)

Just hit your thumb with a hammer one time and then you won't be bored.


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## CSCTech (Mar 25, 2012)

Got the quote, $383.08 for a sky blue poly 15'x30' seamed drop which a back pipe pocket with skirt and velcrow top ties. Which is a LOT less then I was expecting. Thanks everyone for suggesting RoseBrand.


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## MPowers (Mar 26, 2012)

kicknargel said:


> ...............Footer, I'm interested in your expensive grommet die...........


 
About a million years ago, when I was in Grad school at IU Bloomington, 69-70, the theatre Dept had commercial grommet machinery. It consisted of two separate devices, one to punch holes and one to set the grommets. Both were manual. foot pedal, trip hammer devices. They were heavy cast iron pieces of machinery, about 4' tall and a single pedestal style. The operator positioned the material or material and grommets on an anvil and then steps on the pedal. That in turn raised the striker/punch which at the top of the stroke, tripped and fell with about 500# force to punch a very neat hole through as many layers of fabric and webbing as you could muster or to completely set the grommet in a single blow. 

One summer, working the IU connected Summer Stock company, The Brown County Playhouse, another grad student and I were doing what I now will not allow a student or professional worker to do, working an over nite after a long week of 16 hour days. I have since discovered that proper planing and scheduling prevents the need for such activities. The show Must Go On!!! B. S.!! No show is worth someone's life or permanent disability. 

Anyway, it was about 3 am and Joan and I were working on a one off teaser, for Midsummer Nights Dream, made of a mixture of burlap, erosion cloth and ribbons etc. She was punching the holes, I was setting the grommets. To do a grommet you set the high-hat part on the mandrel, pulled the fabric/webbing group over the mandrel and high-hat, place the washer part on top and step on the pedal---BANG, grommet! Repeat. So, at about 4am it was high hat...webbing...washer...hands...stomp ... high hat ... webbing ...washer ... hands... stomp ... high hat ... webbing .. washer ... stomp ..... Joan .......... I think I've got a problem... I had grommeted my thumb in the last step. A quick trip to the Campus med school 24 hour ER, a lot of very raised eyebrows and "you've gota be kidding me" looks and we were back at it. The Teaser went up the next morning with a 6" half moon section of webbing missing, but only Joan and I knew. My thumb still has a 3/4" half circle cutout. I was lucky, I could have lost a finger or thumb. 

At the time I thought I was a theatre macho-hero-techie. Now I know I was very young, not so bright, and a little misguided. 

Anyway, that's the story of the expensive grommet setting machines.


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