# Reflector Removal!!!



## MeJYouNotJ (Sep 11, 2008)

We have a bunch of source four ellipsoidal reflectors at this shop I work in.

Every now and then when blowing them off you see a little "glitter" shoot out the shutters... 
The reflector is flaking  

Put it on the side, label it and leave it be.

Today, I've been working to repair our leko graveyard... and for the life of me I can not figure out how to get the reflector out of a S4 Ellipsoidal/leko/whatever you wanna call it. I read the ETC manual, which says, I kid you not, take the yoke at a 90 degree angle off the light and bang the crap out of it.

I really dont want to get broken glass all over the place, if there's any easier way I would love to know! Thanks in advance!


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## cdub260 (Sep 11, 2008)

MeJYouNotJ said:


> Today, I've been working to repair our leko graveyard... and for the life of me I can not figure out how to get the reflector out of a S4 Ellipsoidal/leko/whatever you wanna call it. I read the ETC manual, which says, I kid you not, take the yoke at a 90 degree angle off the light and bang the crap out of it.



I just took a peek at ETC's website to say what they recommended for removing the reflectors, and came across two sets of instructions, one for pre 2004 fixtures, and one for post 2004 fixtures.

Pre 2004:

To remove a reflector 
Tools required: Two spare reflector retainer clips (2). 
1. Wedge one arm of a spare retainer clip between the lip of one of 
the installed clips and the rim of the reflector, then slide the arm 
down between the installed clip and the reflector as shown in 
figure 12. 
2. Insert the other arm of the spare clip between the other arm of 
the installed clip and the reflector, as shown in figure 13. 
Warning: Do not slide the spare clip all the way in or it will be 
very difficult to remove…leave at least a quarter inch exposed. 
3. Now slide the entire clip between the reflector and the installed 
clip as shown in figure 14. Remember, do not slide it all the way 
in. 
4. Repeat this procedure with the second spare clip, inserting it 
between an adjacent installed clip and the reflector. 
5. Turn the reflector housing casting over, so that the rear of the 
reflector is in view. Gently push on the reflector, toward the side 
of the housing where the extra clips were placed. The reflector 
will slip off to the side at an angle. 
6. Turn the reflector housing casting back over and gently slide the 
reflector out from under the retaining clips. 

Post 2004:

Reflector Housing Assembly 7 
Removing reflector 
Tools Required: 
• Minimally padded work surface (cardboard, carpet, or rubber mat recommended) 
WARNING: This procedure may crack or break the reflector. Always wear gloves, safety 
glasses, and a dust mask when performing this procedure. 

Step 1: Place the reflector housing face down on your work surface so that the concave 
reflector surface points downward. 
Step 2: Loosen the clutch and rotate the yoke so that it is perpendicular to the housing 
at roughly a 90° angle. Tighten the clutch. 
Step 3: Using the yoke as your handle, raise the housing assembly off of the work 
surface a few inches and then firmly tap the housing on the work surface. This 
should force the reflector out of its clips. 
Step 4: Carefully lift the housing to see if the reflector is released. If it is not, repeat step 
3 with slightly more force. 

Strangely, I don't see any reference in either of these to banging the crap out of the light. There is a major difference between firmly tapping and banging the crap out of something.

I'll grant that I don't like either of the methods detailed in the Source 4 assembly guide, but what I dislike about the first method is simply the lack of a handle on their recommended tool. As for the second method listed, all of my Source 4 Lekos are pre 2004, so I cannot comment on that one, as I do not know what changes were made to the design.


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## Sean (Sep 11, 2008)

MeJYouNotJ said:


> We have a bunch of source four ellipsoidal reflectors at this shop I work in.
> 
> Every now and then when blowing them off you see a little "glitter" shoot out the shutters...
> The reflector is flaking
> ...



Really.... hammer. Put the fixture inside a plastic bag, then break the reflector. If you're replacing it, just break it.

Seriously.

--Sean


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## gafftapegreenia (Sep 11, 2008)

Because as theatre tech's we seem to have a dominant pack rat gene.


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## MeJYouNotJ (Sep 11, 2008)

I like the garbage bag idea. Although I did become very good at it today. Removed about 30 reflectors and we're going to order a bunch more.

Hooray! 

I didnt want to break it because I made such a terrible mess on my first attempt, the reflector broke into a million pieces.

But on some of the units, I was able to salvage the reflector where the body was cracked and put it into the old units, you know, frankesteined some lights 

thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm all caught up on the work now, but for the future the garbage bag will be essential.


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## Sean (Sep 11, 2008)

MeJYouNotJ said:


> I like the garbage bag idea. Although I did become very good at it today. Removed about 30 reflectors and we're going to order a bunch more.
> 
> thanks for the suggestions guys! I'm all caught up on the work now, but for the future the garbage bag will be essential.



Or:

Big trashcan. Something in the middle of it that sticks up (like maybe a sledgehammer standing up on its own. "Drop" body onto hammer handle. Glass stays in can.

--Sean


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## Pie4Weebl (Sep 11, 2008)

I had to replace some over the summer, we drilled out the rivets holding the clips in and then just replaced them with a pop-riveter.


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## joeb (Sep 11, 2008)

In college, we replaced about 40-60 of our reflectors on S4's. Aside from the breaking method, we were able to remove the reflectors using two razor blades inserted under the clips. It's been awhile since I've done it, but we settled on this method which worked very effectively. Obviously be very careful using sharp blades, but if you are careful you can wedge them between the clips and the reflector. As a side note, salvaged reflectors can be turned into some rather fun wall sconces or overhead lights (for a pool table or serving bar perhaps).


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## MeJYouNotJ (Sep 11, 2008)

i did keep a bunch of them, woohoo i get to make something fun.


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## dramatech (Sep 12, 2008)

I did eight of them yesterday, Big screwdriver inserted from the back, big hammer hits screwdriver handle and glass pieces fall into trash bag under instrument. Tried the other methods, and I don't have the time. One actually fell out intact after hitting it with screwdriver and hammer.


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## ship (Sep 12, 2008)

Just hammer it already. Even following ETC’s concept for removal it’s like 50/50 you can get it out at best and only if really careful short of cracking it at best. Can about count on one hand how many successful reflector removals I have been involved in and I am the one that gets called in for all of them. Something always chips or cracks. Even added handles to the clips so as to make into tools for removal verses unwieldy extra parts you just somehow have hanging about.

Like the idea of drill/rivet out but it gets problematic in drilling on center a pound rivet. Short of doing this you now have a rivet hole that’s in drilling softer to drill thru the cast aluminum than the pound rivet material and the pound rivet isn’t solid to the frame so you have a rivet hole that might become loose with time and use. If you can center punch and drill thru that pound rivet or even dremmel away the flair of it properly so as to remove it completely that might work. Might even try that concept of dremmeling away the top or bottom of the pound rivet but much easier to just break the reflector and or attempt to follow the instructions to remove the thing. A part of the concept in drilling might also be drilling thru and nicking the reflector and it than cracking also as a chance.

Hmm, removing a perfectly good reflector from the fixture... my spare retainers have handles and I run at about 50/50 with doing that. Grinding away or drilling out the pound rivets, good concept could work. Perhaps grind away the head of the rivet, than alignment punch out what’s left of the shaft of the pound rivet into the fixture and that could remove those retainers also easier in thus getting out the lens. No faith in being able to drill out a pound rivet with that drill bit staying on the center of the rivet thus not damaging and ovaling out the casting’s hole for the rivet. Hammer, most easy. Good tip on the bag.


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## Pie4Weebl (Sep 13, 2008)

ship said:


> Like the idea of drill/rivet out but it gets problematic in drilling on center a pound rivet. Short of doing this you now have a rivet hole that’s in drilling softer to drill thru the cast aluminum than the pound rivet material and the pound rivet isn’t solid to the frame so you have a rivet hole that might become loose with time and use. If you can center punch and drill thru that pound rivet or even dremmel away the flair of it properly so as to remove it completely that might work. Might even try that concept of dremmeling away the top or bottom of the pound rivet but much easier to just break the reflector and or attempt to follow the instructions to remove the thing. A part of the concept in drilling might also be drilling thru and nicking the reflector and it than cracking also as a chance.


If you drill it properly the whole old rivet falls out, so it is easy to cleanly replace. Also dremelling is not an option as two of the rivets are set into the fixture. I replaced about 6 and none of them were damaged when removed with that method. You just need to use a good bit to make it go quickly.


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## ship (Sep 13, 2008)

Done a number of screw and or rivet drill outs over the years... very difficult to be on cener without touching the side walls of what material surrounds what's drilled out. Kudos to you on that and I have not tried a dremmel/grind of the head than pound thru with pin punch but I was thinking the head of the pound rivet was more of an oval head and that once removed would allow for pounding into the fixture the shaft of the remaining rivet.


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## cdub260 (Sep 13, 2008)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Also dremelling is not an option as two of the rivets are set into the fixture.




ship said:


> I have not tried a dremmel/grind of the head than pound thru with pin punch



The rivets could be removed fairly easily using a Dremel Tool with a cutting wheel from the inside of the housing. It does, however, require some very delicate handling of the Dremel. While I've never done this with a Source 4, I've used this trick a number of times with other pieces of equipment I was building or modifying.


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## derekleffew (Sep 13, 2008)

Here's the solution:
Buy only the Lightronics brand of imported ellipsoidal! It has ROLL PINS affixing the rear housing in place, permanently. Thus conveniently eliminating worries about the barrel rotating, or accessing the reflector for cleaning or replacement.


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## Pie4Weebl (Sep 13, 2008)

cdub260 said:


> The rivets could be removed fairly easily using a Dremel Tool with a cutting wheel from the inside of the housing. It does, however, require some very delicate handling of the Dremel. While I've never done this with a Source 4, I've used this trick a number of times with other pieces of equipment I was building or modifying.



Ah! I did not think of taking a demel from the inside. I always went outside in due to the screw gun being too big to fit inside.


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## gafftaper (Sep 13, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Here's the solution:
> Buy only the Lightronics brand of imported ellipsoidal! It has ROLL PINS affixing the rear housing in place, permanently. Thus conveniently eliminating worries about the barrel rotating, or accessing the reflector for cleaning or replacement.



Hey ST,
Can we "the users" sue Lightronics for doing such a bad job ripping off your product?


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## derekleffew (Sep 13, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Hey ST,
> Can we, "the users," sue Lightronics for doing such a bad job ripping off your product?


Don't you think you'd have to purchase one in order to show "damages" and thus prove "standing"? Regrettably, it's not a horrible fixture, but fails in most aspects when compared to the original.


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## remdim (Jun 25, 2009)

Where did you buy replacement reflectors from?


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## gafftaper (Jun 25, 2009)

You should be able to order a replacement reflector from your local theater dealer or any of the major national dealers.


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## Edison2900 (Oct 27, 2015)

joeb said:


> In college, we replaced about 40-60 of our reflectors on S4's. Aside from the breaking method, we were able to remove the reflectors using two razor blades inserted under the clips. It's been awhile since I've done it, but we settled on this method which worked very effectively. Obviously be very careful using sharp blades, but if you are careful you can wedge them between the clips and the reflector. As a side note, salvaged reflectors can be turned into some rather fun wall sconces or overhead lights (for a pool table or serving bar perhaps).


As frighting as it sounded to load the glass reflector with razor blades and then tap out, this proved to be a pretty good method, Thanks!!


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## ship (Nov 3, 2015)

Stick with either extra clips themselves stuck in with handles mounted and as a possible concept the bent angle perhaps ground out. A bunch of 1" putty knives, or in general some say 22ga-18ga steel shim stock to insert between the bent clip and the glass reflector. Have not had to do it in a while, but I might try a mini pry bar to spread and insert little pieces of steel once the spring clips per side are spread. Might put some gaff tape on the mini-pry bar so as not to damage the glass.

Even with these reflector retaining handles built, -sometimes two, sometimes three work, but four is the goal in popping it just right... but at times it works with a fall out of everything, and other times it doesn't work with stuff falling out. Or flinging out which is the conern about using blades. Sharp or even dull razor blades would be bad to be flinging about in a reflector popping out situation even if locally successful.

Darned spring at the bottom screws stuff up. At one point I was making a jig so as to pop the reflector accuracy with an arbor press, but that never went far enough in too rare the extraction to put further effort into it. I would think the actual "popping" out of the reflector is the most important part of this removal process. Have to soundly get that reflector out of the tension clips ramped out to remove it. If off too much to any one side in hitting or pushing it out... you fail. Were there a way to remove the spring spacer at the bottom of the reflector this whole process would be easier.

Never found an easy way other than luck. Glad I don't have to extract many reflectors.


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