# Some nooby dimmer questions.



## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 16, 2009)

Hi everyone, I have a couple noobish dimmer questions. I don't know much about mechanical aspects of dimmers because, I have never needed to worry about them. We have a Leviton/Colortran i98 rack with 48 dimmers. 

Questions 1, Why are the channels spaced out so much? Not just 1, 2, 3 and so on, but the channel number sheet has 1 through 16 as the foh spotlights, and like, channel, 167 as houselights row 7 etc.? I'm pretty sure each fixture we own only has one channel, intensity.


About adding a new fixture.
Our dimmers are pre-wired, just need to plug into the fly bars above the stage, and if all dimmers arent pre-wired I would have to..well, I would have to call the person who desighned the theatre about that, because the dimmer is against the wall with no access to the rear of the dimmers. And all wires pipped in through the top.
Anyways, Fixtures have not been plugged into different channels, or new fixtures added in..wlel, since the theatre was built I am assuming, will I need to be careful with the specific dimmer or anything? It not being using for so long? Or will it be fine? 

Because we are planning on getting at least 10 new fixtures soon.



How to dimmers really work? 
For some reason I am getting a picture like,
Going from the DMX outlit were I plug the board into, that outlet goes to dimmer 1, out of dimmer one to dimmer 2, and so on to 48, so they are all daisy chained, and a fixture is plugged into any dimmer. But what about a DMX light, like a moving head or a LED effect? What would I do with it? Because we are thinking of one or two DMX lights aswell, but I really dont know what to do with them. I would call in the desighner for somethign like this, but if you guys culd help me, I wouldnt need to bother him.

Thanks : )

I dont know much about dimmers because since I got onboard in the schools theatre, it was pretty much set it and forget it, you know?


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## Drewdesign (Aug 16, 2009)

DMX (on a normal system) travels from the back of the board to a dimmer rack (big refrigerator sized unit) the dimmer rack then takes that signal and tells what cell (dimmer) gets turned on and to what percent...Then the power is sent from the dimmer rack to the outlet where you plug your light in...

for automated fixtures, the DMX signals get sent from the back of the lighting console directly to the intelligent light, then you would give the fixture Starting Address (channel) 

what kind of lighting console do you have?


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## Drewdesign (Aug 16, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Questions 1, Why are the channels spaced out so much?



I wouldnt think its the channels that are spaced out, its the dimmers that are spaced out...but on a ETC board you can patch dimmers to different channels...


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## kiwitechgirl (Aug 16, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Hi everyone, I have a couple noobish dimmer questions. I don't know much about mechanical aspects of dimmers because, I have never needed to worry about them. We have a Leviton/Colortran i98 rack with 48 dimmers.
> 
> Questions 1, Why are the channels spaced out so much? Not just 1, 2, 3 and so on, but the channel number sheet has 1 through 16 as the foh spotlights, and like, channel, 167 as houselights row 7 etc.? I'm pretty sure each fixture we own only has one channel, intensity.



Is your dimmer rack one unit, or several units daisy-chained together? If it's multiple units, then it's to do with your DMX dial-up. Each individual pack (usually 6 or 12 channels) has a starting DMX address which is set-able to whatever you choose - our houselight dimmer pack is set to 156 so that it's clear of our stage packs. If your dimmer rack is all one unit, then the houselights have been softpatched at the desk; what that means is that channel 167 on the desk is not necessarily controlling dimmer 167, it has been set to control another dimmer. Look for a menu on the desk called "PATCH". Often in theatres which are permanently hard-patched (like yours) I softpatch so that all my warm generals, cool generals, backlight colours etc etc are in order on the desk, rather than being distributed according to what dimmer I plugged them into. 


> About adding a new fixture.
> Our dimmers are pre-wired, just need to plug into the fly bars above the stage, and if all dimmers arent pre-wired I would have to..well, I would have to call the person who desighned the theatre about that, because the dimmer is against the wall with no access to the rear of the dimmers. And all wires pipped in through the top.
> Anyways, Fixtures have not been plugged into different channels, or new fixtures added in..wlel, since the theatre was built I am assuming, will I need to be careful with the specific dimmer or anything? It not being using for so long? Or will it be fine?
> 
> Because we are planning on getting at least 10 new fixtures soon.



You should be fine. Just don't run the channel to full right away (which you shouldn't do anyway!) - run it at 30% for a while to let the lamp warm up.


> How to dimmers really work?
> For some reason I am getting a picture like,
> Going from the DMX outlit were I plug the board into, that outlet goes to dimmer 1, out of dimmer one to dimmer 2, and so on to 48, so they are all daisy chained, and a fixture is plugged into any dimmer. But what about a DMX light, like a moving head or a LED effect? What would I do with it? Because we are thinking of one or two DMX lights aswell, but I really dont know what to do with them. I would call in the desighner for somethign like this, but if you guys culd help me, I wouldnt need to bother him.



You're pretty much right on the dimmers - they take DMX from the desk, and then power from a power supply - the lamps get their powers from the dimmers. DMX fixtures (LEDs, scrollers, movers etc) don't get plugged into a dimmer; you daisy-chain the DMX out of the dimmers (have a look - there's probably a socket marked DMX THRU or DMX OUT) into your fixture, which you set to a unique DMX address - a different address to the dimmer address - each DMX fixture needs its own address so it can be controlled individually. You then plug the fixture into HARD POWER - NOT a dimmer. DMX controls the dimming - plug a moving light into a dimmer and it will not be happy. What sort of DMX lights are you thinking of - I thought we'd got you to realise that moving heads are not what you need?


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## Clifford (Aug 16, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> How to dimmers really work?
> For some reason I am getting a picture like,
> Going from the DMX outlit were I plug the board into, that outlet goes to dimmer 1, out of dimmer one to dimmer 2, and so on to 48, so they are all daisy chained, and a fixture is plugged into any dimmer.



I think what you're saying here is that each dimmer receives DMX directly from the unit upstream of it. The dimmers themselves never actually see DMX. In most cases the DMX from your board travels to a control board (in my rack it's the control server). This board translates the DMX, taking the value for each channel and sending it to the right dimmer in the form of a control voltage.

Remember that the channels on the board do not necessarily control the circuit with their number on stage, the two things are not same. That's where patching comes in, which kiwietechgirl alluded to.


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## LightStud (Aug 16, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium, I think you'd benefit tremendously from reading a textbook on stage lighting. Many people recommend _Designing with Light_, by J. Michael Gillette. You needn't buy the latest revision; the 1997 edition is available used here for as low as $3.50.


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## JChenault (Aug 16, 2009)

In re-reading the original post, I think there may be some confusion about channels -vs- dimmers ( and by extension circuits) and Devices. Not being clear and using the correct names makes it harder to understand the question.

A dimmer is the device that controls high power voltage to your lights. 

A Circuit is what you plug your fixture into and is connected to a dimmer. It sounds like that in your theatre the dimmers are hard wired into the circuits in the house ( called dimmer per circuit) so the dimmer number and the circuit number are the same. 

A channel is a concept of the control console. Because it is convenient to have the first slider on your board control (say) the Down Left area light, all modern control consoles have the ability to associate a control channel with any dimmer number.

A device is the think that is being controlled by a DMX cable. It might be a dimmer rack ( but not usually a single dimmer) - or a moving light, a scroller, or a fog maching. 


It is unclear from your post if you are asking 'Why are channels spread out so much' if you are asking about dimmers or channels. It it is dimmers, the answer is 'Because the installer / architect wired it up that way and live with it'. It it is channels it is 'Because whoever patched the board decided it made sense and you can change it to be whatever you want'.

Read the manual about how to patch dimmers to circuits and things may become clearer. I expect that if you go to the FOH position, you will see outlets that are labeled with the dimmer number. You want to find or make a chart showing the location of every circuit/dimmer number in the theatre. It could be that you have two outlets with the same dimmer number. This means that they both are controlled by the same dimmer. When you are deciding where to hang a light, you can plug it into any unused dimmer, and assign that to any channel you wish.

It also sounds like, in your house, that you don't have very many dimmers. If you plug two fixtures into the same dimmer, they will always run at the same intensity. You need to think carefully about what lights you can run together, and which ones you must have separate. For example, if you have two fixtures on each area from front of house, you would like to control each fixture separately. If you don't have enough dimmers, you might put both of the fixtures on the same dimmer. You also need to find out the capacity of each dimmer ( usually 2400 watts) and make sure that you do not put more load on the dimmer than it is rated for. (IE you can't plug 6 500 watt fixtures into a single dimmer).

As to the DMX question. DMX is the standard control protocol to control Devices. A device is typically a dimmer pack ( not a single dimmer) a scroller, or a moving light. DMX cables typically do daisy chain from device to device, but (in the case of a dimmer pack with multiple dimmers - which I think is your situation) not from dimmer to dimmer.

Hope this helps.


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## gafftaper (Aug 16, 2009)

SAFETY SPEECH: 

There is mention of cleaning out your dimmers above. While this is done regularly in the industry it can *EASILY KILL YOU,* if you don't know what you are doing. This is something that should only be done by a trained adult technician following proper safety protocals. Never by an unsupervised student. If there's anything you can vacum without opening up the dimmer rack go for it but NEVER open or pull anything out without a trained adult technician IN THE ROOM instructing you.


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## shiben (Aug 16, 2009)

I second Gafftaper on this one, getting shocked in there is going to do more than make your hair stand on end, it will likely burn you to a crisp. If your going to go in there, make sure there is a qualified person (preferably a spark), and consider shutting down the main service to the dimmers, if you can do that without destroying things. Just dont mess around with electricity.


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## fredthe (Aug 16, 2009)

You may be a bit off on your dimmer counts...

An i96 rack holds 48 dimmer _modules_; each module has two _dimmers_. So the first question is, are you counting modules or dimmers? (Note that some modules are 2 units high, so the rack would only support 24 of the larger modules.) Also, what type of modules do you have? (Should be a label on the front.)

As for the spacing, it may be soft-patched in the board, or it may be soft-patched in the dimmer rack. The i-series dimmers allow for each dimmer to be assigned to whatever DMX address you want. This assignment was probably done by the installer, but it can possibly changed by a knowledgeable user. (You shouldn't try this yourself, and it may require special software.) So, if your board is patched 1:1, then the odd sequencing is likely due to patching in the rack itself.

As for DMX routing, the control module in the dimmer rack reads the DMX stream, and then directly controls all the dimmers based on the patching. The DMX is hard-wired to the rack, there's no output from it to drive other lights. To drive DMX-controlled instruments, you would need to use a 2nd output from your board, or use a DMX splitter if your board only has one output.

For maintenance, according to the manual, the door filters should be removed and washed (and completely dry before reinstalling.) The air intakes and outlets should be vacuumed. If you can, do this with power to the rack off. As mentioned by others, you should not be opening anything or removing any modules for cleaning.

-Fred


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## JChenault (Aug 16, 2009)

fredthe said:


> As for the spacing, it may be soft-patched in the board, or it may be soft-patched in the dimmer rack. The i-series dimmers allow for each dimmer to be assigned to whatever DMX address you want. This assignment was probably done by the installer, but it can possibly changed by a knowledgeable user. (You shouldn't try this yourself, and it may require special software.) So, if your board is patched 1:1, then the odd sequencing is likely due to patching in the rack itself.
> 
> -Fred



Fred
I had never heard of a dimmer rack that let me set a dimmer to a random DMX address. Thanks for bringing it up. 

Do you know of any other systems that have this bizarre ability?

- John


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## fredthe (Aug 16, 2009)

JChenault said:


> I had never heard of a dimmer rack that let me set a dimmer to a random DMX address. Thanks for bringing it up.
> 
> Do you know of any other systems that have this bizarre ability?


 I believe that both the ETC Sensor+ and Strand C21 racks allow some form of patching. It's particularly applicable when there are multiple control sources for a rack (such as console + architectural system.)

-Fred


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## gafftaper (Aug 16, 2009)

Just to clarify:

-College students should be trained to do standard dimmer maintenance independently. 

-High School students, in a school with a trained adult, should hopefully have the opportunity to assist with dimmer maintenance... but never without supervision.

-Although it's completely safe when done correctly, a mistake could be fatal. So for the safety of our younger members, we do not allow the discussion of how to clean dimmers here on CB. If you don't *know* what you are doing, call a trained professional.


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## kiwitechgirl (Aug 17, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> Just to clarify:
> -Although it's completely safe when done correctly, a mistake could be fatal. So for the safety of our younger members, we do not allow the discussion of how to clean dimmers here on CB. If you don't *know* what you are doing, call a trained professional.



Apologies. I completely didn't think when writing my post, and so I've edited it to remove the reference I made to cleaning dimmers.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

Since there is so many reply's, I'm just going to respond to a few that covered everything ^_^


> what kind of lighting console do you have?



We have the Leviton Status. (The 24/48)










> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MillburyAuditorium*
> 
> _Hi everyone, I have a couple noobish dimmer questions. I don't know much about mechanical aspects of dimmers because, I have never needed to worry about them. We have a Leviton/Colortran i98 rack with 48 dimmers.
> ...






It is one unit, the Colortan i96. It came pre-assembled kind of thing when the theatre was built. I will will re-read the Patching section on the board's manual, It does get kind of confusing jumping to channel, 100 or so from 16.

Okay, will warm it up slowly. (Maybe even warming it up without the unit plugged in?)


Haha, I just had a little apifiny, 
Am I right by saying, all the dimmers are daisychained via DMX, then out of the last dimmer, goes out a DMX wire going to any DMX controlable lighting fixture? And basicly the board sees every single dimmer as its own lighting unit, and not whats plugged into it? The dimmer and fixture as one thing? And we could have up to the units maximum on any specific board in DMX channels, in DMX, and only 96 non-DMX lights plugged int the dimmers.

Also, I just realised while typing why the fixtures are spaced out, because their DMX channels, and in my some what okay knowlege on how DMX works, each channel is spaced out 14 channels correct?

Yes, you did, But me and the person we call in for help and the few other students onboard with the theatre argued about like, 2 or 4 cheap ones, so we can have some kind of a spotlight, even if it can only be used at dark scenes, and during dance rehersals we thought it would be great to have a smoothly mocing spotlight. Because we have no actual followspots, we just fade between the 16 foh spots to create that kind of feeling. We also realize we need other lighing fixtures aswell, thats why the budgest for moving heads and priority is lowest. 
What other DMX fixtures would oyu recomend us trying to get? Or what kind of fixture.

Also, I dont know if you saw the post were I said that I ran intot he school for something and just had a quick run into the stage to correct my fixture counts, but had no time to stay. I realized my coutns were way off and that we actually had,
FOH-
16 Colortran Spots
Above Stage-
3 Colortran Strip Lights/Color
11 Colortran Fresnels
5 Far Cycs (And someone asked if I was suing properly and if I had Cycs, are Cycs the, kind of "fringe curtain" that is positioned infront of the actual curtain? If so, use we have them infrotn of all three curtains.)









Thank you for clearifing that a dimmer has two channels, I never did understand why we had 48 dimmers but the rack is called the i96.

I do not know the kind of dimmer module we have, but all 48 are the same model. I suppose it would say on the back, or maybe the description of the i96 online. They came witht he rack.


gafftaper-

Yes, I would never think of cleaning the dimmers myself, I dont know if oyu said it because of my other post were I said I would be cleanign and fixing all the lights we have, but I didnt meen dimmers.
If I were to ever think of cleaning the dimmers I would shutdown the power going to them and were anti-static bracelits, I will add it to the list of thigns I want to talk about with the guy who comes in. 





I was counting a dimmer as the actual unit I see in the rack itself. Thanks for clearing that up aswell.



JChenault, Thank you for saying that even thoughe ach dimemr module has two channels they are controlled like one unti, But other posts I was thinking each dimmer could control two channles individualy.
As far as number of dimmers, we have 96, or 48 controlable ones. We only have 35 fixtures, so theres a nice gap.






Yes, I know a little about the DMX channles that need to be set on DMX lights, 14 channels apart correct? Even if its only a 4 channel light. And channels are selected by dipswitches, or newer ones have interfaces on the unit.



Also another quick question.

We can control each row of houslights (11 rows in all if im not mistaken, including proscenium.) indivudaly, do you thinkg that they are connected to the dimmers, or using a DMX kind of chain? If a DMX chain I would asume I could contorl each houslight indivudaly, if I can, the channel numbers have never been recorded. I havnt been up in the rafters in a very long time.




I just realised somehting, again, 
If our houslight rows are connected to the dimmer as their own "unit", that meens we have no open dimmers at all. I am thinking that is the case, if so, that leads to our theatre as being a pretty much hardwired theatre. And not desighned to ad on anything, pretty muchs et it and forget it. If thats the case we might need to think about getting another dimmer rack, or re-wiring the houslights for house facing and house away. (The wayour ceiling is setup, if your looking at it from the stage back, you can only see house away rows of houselights, if your in the back, you can only see house facing rows of hosuelights.)


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## kiwitechgirl (Aug 17, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Yes, you did, But me and the person we call in for help and the few other students onboard with the theatre argued about like, 2 or 4 cheap ones, so we can have some kind of a spotlight, even if it can only be used at dark scenes, and during dance rehersals we thought it would be great to have a smoothly mocing spotlight. Because we have no actual followspots, we just fade between the 16 foh spots to create that kind of feeling.
> What other DMX fixtures would oyu recomend us trying to get? Or what kind of fixture.



Don't try using a moving light as a followspot. It won't work. Without one of the radio tracking systems that occasionally are talked about here, you can't effectively use a mover as a followspot because you can't get an actor or dancer to walk exactly the same path at exactly the same speed at exactly the same time every night. It just doesn't work that way. I've seen it done successfully a grand total of once, and that was because the actor's path was entirely determined by the set, and he was moving in time with the music which was pre-recorded and so he had no option as to where to walk, and the speed of his walk - and even then it took my operator (who is hugely experienced and superb) a huge amount of time in tweaking of cues to make it work. If you must get DMX toys - which I don't think you should - then look at gobo rotators, maybe some scrollers, possibly animation wheels (do you use them in the States?!) but nothing else. Something else that you may not have thought about is a hazer - it'll make your lighting look good in the air, just be triple-sure that it's OK with the school and that you're not going to trigger any fire alarms - because a haze machine will set fire alarms off if they're smoke detectors.


> Yes, I know a little about the DMX channles that need to be set on DMX lights, 14 channels apart correct? Even if its only a 4 channel light. And channels are selected by dipswitches, or newer ones have interfaces on the unit.



Where'd you get that from? You put them as many channels apart as they need to be - if it's a four-channel unit and your dialup starts at 200, then the next one is 204, the next 208, the next 212 and so on and so on. You don't have to do this - I tend to dial units up at intervals of 20, unless I'm using units with more than 20 channels, just because it's tidy and easy to remember. So long as the channels don't overlap you can dial them up with whatever intervals you please.


> We can control each row of houslights (11 rows in all if im not mistaken, including proscenium.) indivudaly, do you thinkg that they are connected to the dimmers, or using a DMX kind of chain? If a DMX chain I would asume I could contorl each houslight indivudaly, if I can, the channel numbers have never been recorded. I havnt been up in the rafters in a very long time.



I'd be very surprised if each of your houselights was a DMX-controllable fixture. They'll be patched into your dimmers one row per dimmer.


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## fredthe (Aug 17, 2009)

As has been pointed out, you need to get a good book on lighting... or better, find someone to spend a couple of hours with you in the theater going over how things work.

I'll try and correct some apparant misconceptions that you have, so bear with me for a bit. Note in the following I'm talking about DMX channels, not control board channels.

First, "DMX". At it's basic level, DMX is a signal sent down a pair of wires. That signal contains a nimber (between 0 and 255) for each of 512 "channels". When DMX is sent to dimmers, each dimmer will pick the value of its single assigned channel, and set it's output accordingly. Generally (though not always) a rack of dimmers will use a sequential block of channels.

For example, a rack of 96 dimmers will use DMX channels 1 through 96, or perhaps even 123 through 218. Or there may (in some racks) an arbitrary assignment of DMX channels to Dimmers.

For other DMX-controlled devices, the device will generally be set to the starting DMX channel. If it's a one channel device (like a scroller,) it will only take one channel. If it's something more complicated, it will take more channels in sequence. For example, a VL2500 Spot will take 22 channels. So if you were using a Vl2500, and it's starting address was 30, the next fixture/dimmer/whatever would have to be at a starting address of 52 or higher.


MillburyAuditorium said:


> Am I right by saying, all the dimmers are daisychained via DMX, then out of the last dimmer, goes out a DMX wire going to any DMX controlable lighting fixture?


In general, sort of. in your case, no.

With a dimmer rack, the DMX is not "daisy-chained" to all the dimmers. The DMX goes to a contoller, then dhen drives all the dimmers. Sometimes, the controller also has a DMX output, that can then be daisy-chained to other fixtures. However, the i96 doesn't have any DMX outputs, and the DMX input is not accessable in the rack. I believe your board has only one DMX output, so that needs to connect to the dimmers. In order to drive any other DMX devices off your current board, you would need to add a DMX splitter to the output of the board. One output would then drive the dimmers, and the other would drive the DMX devices. Note that you still only have 512 channels, so the channels used by the dimmers couldn't be used by other devices. Also, since you only have a 48 channel board, you may not be able to add any devices, anyway.

If you do get a new board, get one with 2 DMX outputs, or include a splitter, if you want to be able to use other devices. (I'd start with scrollers, personally.)


> And basicly the board sees every single dimmer as its own lighting unit, and not whats plugged into it? The dimmer and fixture as one thing? And we could have up to the units maximum on any specific board in DMX channels, in DMX, and only 96 non-DMX lights plugged int the dimmers.


Not quite. Your board just sees channels. It doesn't care what's on the channel. (Newer boards do, but that's another discussion.) How many lights are plugged into each dimmer is limited only by the dimmer capacity.

Here's an example. With soft-patching on the board, you could have one slider controlling 3 DMX channels. These 3 channels would control 3 dimmers. Each dimmer could have 4 instruments plugged into them. So, moving the one slider could control 12 lights in unison.


> Also, I just realised while typing why the fixtures are spaced out, because their DMX channels, and in my some what okay knowlege on how DMX works, each channel is spaced out 14 channels correct?


Nope. any channel spacing is purely arbitrary when dealing with dimmers. I really think that your dimmers should just be channels 1-96, but I guess the installer didn't see it that way.


> But me and the person we call in for help and the few other students onboard with the theatre argued about like, 2 or 4 cheap ones, so we can have some kind of a spotlight


*Don't use movers as followspots!*If you want a followspot, buy a followspot.


> What other DMX fixtures would oyu recomend us trying to get? Or what kind of fixture.


At this point, none. You can't control anything else. If you do get a new board, I'd start with scrollers... nothing more complicated, and certanly nothing that moves.


> are Cycs the, kind of "fringe curtain" that is positioned infront of the actual curtain?


No. A cyc is a (usually light-colored) backdrop, that is lit to brovide a background color.

> Thank you for clearifing that a dimmer has two channels, I never did understand why we had 48 dimmers but the rack is called the i96.


You have 96 Dimmers. They are just in 48 modules.

> JChenault, Thank you for saying that even thoughe ach dimemr module has two channels they are controlled like one unti, But other posts I was thinking each dimmer could control two channles individualy.
> As far as number of dimmers, we have 96, or 48 controlable ones. We only have 35 fixtures, so theres a nice gap.


You have 96 controllable dimmers. Even though there are 2 dimmers per module, each dimmer is individually controllable.

> We can control each row of houslights (11 rows in all if im not mistaken, including proscenium.) indivudaly, do you thinkg that they are connected to the dimmers, or using a DMX kind of chain? If a DMX chain I would asume I could contorl each houslight indivudaly, if I can, the channel numbers have never been recorded. I havnt been up in the rafters in a very long time.


It's likely your houselights are using some of your dimmers. Best to get someone who knows what they are doing to look at it.

-Fred


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

kiwitechgirl said:


> Don't try using a moving light as a followspot. It won't work. Without one of the radio tracking systems that occasionally are talked about here, you can't effectively use a mover as a followspot because you can't get an actor or dancer to walk exactly the same path at exactly the same speed at exactly the same time every night. It just doesn't work that way. I've seen it done successfully a grand total of once, and that was because the actor's path was entirely determined by the set, and he was moving in time with the music which was pre-recorded and so he had no option as to where to walk, and the speed of his walk - and even then it took my operator (who is hugely experienced and superb) a huge amount of time in tweaking of cues to make it work. If you must get DMX toys - which I don't think you should - then look at gobo rotators, maybe some scrollers, possibly animation wheels (do you use them in the States?!) but nothing else. Something else that you may not have thought about is a hazer - it'll make your lighting look good in the air, just be triple-sure that it's OK with the school and that you're not going to trigger any fire alarms - because a haze machine will set fire alarms off if they're smoke detectors.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, we were aware that it would be sort of hard to use them as a follow spot.
But we where thinking we would rent a cheap one and see how hard it would be to move it manually with encoder wheels or like the Expression 3 we had, had 5 wheels on the side for moving lights. If not, we were thinking of getting a tiny light board with a joystick to control them. But we are still thinking about all this.


Will look at the kind of fixtures you said. And we really could use a hazer/fogger. Would be great for dance recitals, and other scenes in plays. Yeah, would have to talk with maintenance to see how sensitive the smoke detectors are. But doesnt a Haze machine fog stay on the ground like dry ice? And fog machiens go everywere? So I haze machine should be fine.



Im not sure, for some reason I just thought DMX channels had to be seperated in intervals of 14 

Yeah, me too. So I am thinking we need to be doing some re-wiring :/

Can never be easy can it ^_^'


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

fredthe said:


> As has been pointed out, you need to get a good book on lighting... or better, find someone to spend a couple of hours with you in the theater going over how things work.
> 
> I'll try and correct some apparant misconceptions that you have, so bear with me for a bit. Note in the following I'm talking about DMX channels, not control board channels.
> 
> ...




Thanks for explaining everything. So we can control 96 fixtures individually correct? With 48 dimmers. Good to know ^^'

As for a controller in the rack. There is a device on the very bottom of the rack that looks like it didn't come with the rack itself. I have never worried about it. Must be it : )

Heh, I never did realize why boards had two DMX outputs. I thought it was override other baords, like we did when we had rented the Expression 3 last year, we overrided our Status. I am pretty sure the Element has two DMX outs? The Status might too, Havnt seen it in, a summer. I will take a closer look at the unit at the bottom of our rack to see if it is indeed a controlelr and if it has a DMX out. Betteroff, I will just look in the theatre's scimatics (sp?). 

Like I have said, a guy from Leviton, one who was on the team as a rooky when our theatre is built and is now a higher rank, who worked on the project is comming in and I am building a list by being on this forum what to go over in person with him.


As for Cycs, Now a I know what you meen, didnt know what those were called. I might have the wrong name, but our Far Cycs are definetly for lighting up the stage in general. And they do a pretty good job.


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## JChenault (Aug 17, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Haha, I just had a little apifiny,
> Am I right by saying, all the dimmers are daisy-chained via DMX, then out of the last dimmer, goes out a DMX wire going to any DMX controllable lighting fixture? And basically the board sees every single dimmer as its own lighting unit, and not whats plugged into it? The dimmer and fixture as one thing? And we could have up to the units maximum on any specific board in DMX channels, in DMX, and only 96 non-DMX lights plugged int the dimmers.


Nope - let me try again.

Typically there is a single dmx cable feeding a device. In your case a device is the entire rack of dimmers. There is an internal circuit board that takes the DMX message and sends individual level information to each dimmer. There is no internal cable going from dimmer to dimmer. You are correct that the board does not understand what is plugged into a dimmer - it just spits out the DMX values. (Now if you get into moving light consoles, this gets more complex - but that is not what you have).

If you have a moving light, or some other fancy fixture that is controlled by DMX, this is considered another DMX device. Since this fixture is a DMX device, you can daisy chain the cable from device to device up to 32 devices. If your dimmer rack supports DMX Out - you can run a DMX cable from the dimmer rack to the fixture(s). Note that you also have to supply 120 volt power to the device. 

Some consoles have multiple DMX out ports. Yours does not. There are companies that make splitters for the signal. IE you could run a cable from your console to the splitter, and from the splitter you would have two cables - one to the dimmer rack, and one to the moving lights.


> Also, I just realised while typing why the fixtures are spaced out, because their DMX channels, and in my some what okay knowlege on how DMX works, each channel is spaced out 14 channels correct?


Ok - I'm going to be pedantic here because it is important. I'm trying to assist but I can't understand what you are asking. Please try to use the correct terms. Please spell check. Please prof read for clarity. Make it easy for me to help you instead of hard.

There is no such thing as a DMX channel. There is a DMX address, there is a channel in a console, there is a mapping from channel to DMX value.

Fixtures don't have DMX addresses unless they are intelligent lights and have a dmx cable connected to them. Are we talking about fixtures which are DMX devices and have a dmx cable attached to them?

Dimmers do have dmx addresses - are you asking why the dimmers DMX addressing is set up the way it is?

Channels map to dmx addresses in the console. This is controlled by the patch in the console. Are you asking why the console was patched the way it is?




> Thank you for clearifing that a dimmer has two channels, I never did understand why we had 48 dimmers but the rack is called the i96.


A dimmer does not have two channels. A dimmer does not 'have' channels at all. (I'm being pedantic again ). I can't find a spec sheet for your dimmer rack, [Edit by DL: Link to i96 cut sheet.pdf] but typically you will find in the rack a number of dimmer modules that can plug in and out of the rack. Each module can have one to several dimmers. You need to find out how many dimmers you have in the rack ( not how many modules) and what the capacity of each dimmer is. Note that you may have different types of modules in the dimmer rack.

As to the channel question - each dimmer in the rack has a single DMX address. The control console will map its channels to whatever DMX address you want. But you cannot assign a single DMX address (dimmer address) to more than one channel. You can assign a single channel to multiple DMX addresses, but not the other way around.



> As far as number of dimmers, we have 96, or 48 controlable ones. We only have 35 fixtures, so theres a nice gap.


Curious - why are only 48 controllable? Are they controlled by a houselight system or something? What are they for? 



> I just realised somehting, again,
> If our houslight rows are connected to the dimmer as their own "unit", that meens we have no open dimmers at all. I am thinking that is the case, if so, that leads to our theatre as being a pretty much hardwired theatre. And not desighned to ad on anything, pretty muchs et it and forget it. If thats the case we might need to think about getting another dimmer rack, or re-wiring the houslights for house facing and house away. (The wayour ceiling is setup, if your looking at it from the stage back, you can only see house away rows of houselights, if your in the back, you can only see house facing rows of hosuelights.)



In your situation, unless you are going to get an electrician, it really does not matter how many dimmers you have in the rack, it only matters how many dimmers you have circuits for. A suggestion. Go into your theatre. Look at every place you have a fixture plugged into a circuit. Look for all of the circuit boxes you can find. There should be some kind of label on the circuit - typically a number. Make a chart showing where each circuit is, and what it's number is. Count how many different circuits you have found. That is the number of dimmers you have available. Save this chart for future reference.

John


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## shiben (Aug 17, 2009)

I was re reading your post about using a DMX mover as a follow spot, you would be much better served getting a Source 4 with an iris and a barrel with the correct degree for your space. Mount some handles on it, and voila, follow spot. No need to mess with complicated movers and very not-bright instruments.


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## derekleffew (Aug 17, 2009)

JChenault said:


> ...A suggestion. Go into your theatre. Look at every place you have a fixture plugged into a circuit. There should be some kind of label on the circuit - typically a number. Make a chart showing where each circuit is, and what it's number is. Count how many different circuits you have found. That is the number of dimmers you have available. Save this chart for future reference. ...


Even better, make a "map" showing the circuit/dimmer locations, see attached. See also the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/10703-1-1-patch-do-you-use.html.


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## kiwitechgirl (Aug 17, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Well, we were aware that it would be sort of hard to use them as a follow spot.
> But we where thinking we would rent a cheap one and see how hard it would be to move it manually with encoder wheels or like the Expression 3 we had, had 5 wheels on the side for moving lights. If not, we were thinking of getting a tiny light board with a joystick to control them. But we are still thinking about all this.



I can tell you right here and now how difficult it is to follow someone with encoder wheels or a joystick: **** near impossible. If you run them in coarse mode then you don't have enough fine control, and if you run them in fine mode you can't move the light quickly enough. Plus you just don't have enough control and will never be able to stay on the person 100% of the time - a followspot has a much better chance. Did it never occur to you that if there was a reliable method of using a mover as a followspot that it would be used on big shows? If you go to a Broadway show, what do you see - a followspot. If you go to the Metripolitan Opera, what do you see - a followspot. If you go to a West End show, what do you see - a followspot. If you go to the Royal Opera in London, what do you see - a followspot. Seeing a pattern here?! If you want a followspot effect, get a followspot. It doesn't have to be a big expensive one - get a Source 4 or Selecon Pacific, bolt a spigot to the yoke and put it on a stand, and get an iris and a single dimmer for it. That way you can use it as a followspot and when you don't need one, it can be used as a normal profile lantern in your rig.


> But doesnt a Haze machine fog stay on the ground like dry ice? And fog machiens go everywere? So I haze machine should be fine.



Nope. Haze is a very fine mist which fills the space - you can't see it very clearly unless there's a light beam shining through it - what it does is shows up the light beams and makes it look pretty. A fog machine produces a cloud of smoke which is much thicker and doesn't spread so much throughout the space. A dry ice machine or low fogger produces fog which rolls along the ground.


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## Les (Aug 17, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Thanks for explaining everything. So we can control 96 fixtures individually correct? With 48 dimmers. Good to know ^^'



Actually, your dimmer rack probably has 48 modules, but each module houses 2 dimmers. These dimmers are individually controllable, but you cannot have individual control over 96 fixtures using 48 dimmers unless you have ETC's dimmer doubling. You don't have that. Again, you can control 96 instruments with 48 "2x" modules but not with 48 individual dimmers, which would be a rack of 24 modules (about the size of a 'mini-fridge'). 

Seems like I read earlier that you have a Status 24/48. Isn't that the one with a small LCD screen and 3 rows of 24 sliders? If so, scrap the idea of using any intelligent gear. This board has no encoder wheels and I'll bet that you would have to patch every light's attributes (could be 6,8,16,32, etc) into a "channel" on the board. Seeing that you only have 48 channels to patch into, having pretty much any moving light connected to the system would eat up a good portion of your faders. If you have something other than the Status (like if you have the Innovator), my conclusion is incorrect. I used a Status back in my old community theatre (renovated in 1995, the board has since been replaced), and though I never attempted to control intelligent gear on it, this is not a mission I would embark on unless they have done some serious updates which I somehow doubt.

Sorry if this came off as being harsh. I'm just trying to be as "matter-of-fact" as possible. I know that we've all got to start somewhere and posting your questions here is wayyy better than fumbling around with a 'mystery system' and possibly getting hurt in the process.


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## renegadeblack (Aug 17, 2009)

Let me suggest something to you so that you can play around a little bit being as that seems to be what you want to do, and hey, is healthy to have a little bit of wanting to do it yourself.

I am assuming that this is the rack that you have, if so, you have the same as I: 

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibcG...=pGtSGPdUJQNhqbRn351ckA&label=IBE&appName=IBE

I was going to suggest that you backup your console, but after taking a look at exactly what console you have, I noticed that you won't be able to do that. 

I'm not sure if its something that you can do, but I would suggest setting up a chase that goes from channel 1 to 96. Give it maybe a 1 or 2 second pause on each channel. If you can't setup a chase, just have someone on the board bumping the channels to full on the board manually.

After you have set this up, if you go back to your dimmer rack, you will notice that there are 3 LEDs on each module. There is one in the middle indicating that that there is power/data going into the module. The one above that and below that show that there is a load on the dimmer. If you start at the top of the rack, you will see the first module, that module controls dimmer 1 and 2. The first LED indicates a load on dimmer 1. The second LED indicates that there is power/data on this first module. The third LED will indicate a load on dimmer 2. 

If you need it, here's a diagram:

_____ Module 1
LED1: Load Dimmer 1
LED2: Power/Data Module 1
LED3: Load Dimmer 2
_____ Module 2
LED1: Load Dimmer 3
LED2: Power/Data Module 2
LED3: Load Dimmer 4
_____ Module 3
LED1: Load Dimmer 5
LED2: Power/Data Module 3
LED3: Load Dimmer 6

Does that help?

So, you have your chase running (or your drone operating the board). If you watch the 1st and 3rd LEDs on each module, they should be chasing down to the bottom of the rack. Being as you have a board with 48 faders, you may only be able to conveniently do the first half of the rack. This should hopefully give you a better understanding of how dimmers correspond to what you have on your board. That is after all, assuming that you have a 1:1 patch going on. If you don't then all bets are off. However, doing this will help you figure out how your patch is laid out. 

Also, if you look at all of your electrics, you should see how high the numbers go up to. This would assumedly be 96, and if not, your house lights might take up the higher numbers on your racks, but its most often the first dimmers in your rack. While looking at all of these numbers, you might notice that they have A or B after them, or that there are multiple spots on your electrics that have the same number. This means that both of those "outlets" are hard wired into the same dimmer. You might also not see anything like that. 

In a simple and perfect world, you would be able to turn up channel 1 on your console, have the LED for dimmer 1 turn on, and whatever dimmer 1 is wired to turn on. With that example, that would probably correspond to some one of your houselights. Try turning up lets say channel 20 on your console, check to see that the LED on your rack that corresponds to dimmer 20 on your rack turns on, and whatever is plugged into the "outlet" labeled 20 should turn on. You can do this also with whatever channnel/dimmer/"outlet" combination you desire. If these don't all correspond together, then you most likely aren't in a 1:1 patch on your console, or, your dimmers aren't wired corresponding to dimmer number.

Hope that all helps and makes sense!


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

Yes, that is the rack we have.

Thank you everyone for explaining everything : )



I ahve opened up the rack while lights were running and saw different LEDs going ona nd off but it was a little confusing, because only a few lights were on and it didnt seem to corrospond, but I know I get it.

Yes, we have 48 modules, with a guess, 2 Dimmers each. Okay, so now that I udnerstand, we can have about 50 more lighting fixtures, I will get cracking on that.

As for hte moving heads, we will re-think it and get a follor spot. 


And yes, the Status can do chases. I never use chases though in shows, I like more hands on feel : P So I will setup a chase like that and take a look at the dimmer rack. (I can onyl guess it is quite colorful during a show xD)



Les, yes that is the Status. But I was talking of joysticks and encoder wheeles for when we get a new light board.



I finaly rememberd why I though DMX addresses needed to be spaced out 14 channels, it was an approximate number I read somewhere that will cut down on interference with other fixtures. I dont know if this is true or not.


I thought only 48 were controlable because someone had said that even though each of my 48 dimmer modules in my rack have two dimmers in them, the will act as one thing and go to the same itnensity. But now that you guys have cleared it up, I relise that the 48 modules I see in my rack arent actually dimmers, but a case containing two indivudally contorlled dimmers.






I have never tried it myself, but I dont really see why controlling a moving head manualy with two faders would be so hard. One for paning, one for tilt. Would definetly take some getting used to though.

I will consider make a follow spot with something like a source 4. I can kind of see it getting really hot though? Heh, follow spot stands cost jsut as much as the light itself : P.






Im very sorry if I have confusing you with my wrong terms. When I say Channels, I ment this-

I have a "cheat sheet" with fixture addresses on it. It is setup like this-

Channel 01 : Spotlight 1
Channel 02 : Spotlight 2
Channel 03 : Spotlight 3

etc. etc. etc.

And so if I type in "01" on my board, thne enter, it will call up, FOH Spot 1. And I can control it with the control section on the board, or do things like, park it, release it seperatly from a list of parks, or asighn the light to a submaster.

Does anyone know what I am talking about? What the correct term would be?


Now on this paper, after going from 01-16 for the spots, it will jump to like. 32, and be like, "Halogen Back Right" or something. And I was jsut wondering why it was setup like this. Why not just continue on being 01-512.
Doesnt really mater. Was just a question of why : )
Although I think we will be going over some wiring things with the Leviton guy comming in. We're going to disconnect everything, un-plug all the dimmers and fixtures, and jsut re-wire everything just so I, and my prosesors (Is that a word?) now how everything is setup. And will good experience for my going into college for the field.


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## mstaylor (Aug 17, 2009)

Successors is the word you are looking for.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

Aha : D


Now, what would be the reason that our "successors" are spaced so much?


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## Les (Aug 17, 2009)

To touch one one thing you brought up, yes a Source Four on a stick would get hot, but they make a special handle for that.

Also, sounds like you are understanding your dimmers much better now. 

I have never heard of interference caused moving lights being placed too close to each other. Doesn't sound plausible to me at all. Whoever told you that is full of you know what! lol


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## derekleffew (Aug 17, 2009)

Les said:


> ...I have never heard of interference caused moving lights being placed too close to each other. Doesn't sound plausible to me at all. Whoever told you that is full of you know what! lol


He meant "addressed too closely," not placed. Each brand and model of moving light takes a different number of channels. If the ranges overlap between fixtures, unexpected and undesirable results will occur. For example, changing the color on fixture#1 might change the pan on fixture#2.


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## JChenault (Aug 17, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> YChannels, I ment this-
> 
> I have a "cheat sheet" with fixture addresses on it. It is setup like this-
> 
> ...



These ARE called channels - because you are talking about what the console presents to the operator, not what dimmer numbers you are controlling. Your 'Spotlight number 1' can be plugged into any dimmer number. It might be dimmer 1, it might be dimmer 27. The console has been set up to patch channel 1 with the dimmer that is controling your spot #1. 

Now that I understand that we are talking about channels, not DMX addresses - I can answer the original question ( but you may not find it satisfying).

It's set up that way because whoever set up the patch for your console thought it was a good idea to do it that way. As to why they thought that - I have no idea. One guess is that the system may be set to a 1:1 patch ( where channel 1 controls DMX address 1, etc) and there is just nothing plugged into dimmers 17 thru 31.

This is another reason why you want to make a circuit lay out ( or a map per Derekleffew's post) for your space. This will show you how many dimmers you have available and where the circuits for each one are. I can't tell from your post if any of the dimmers in the rack are used for houselight control or not. It does not matter how many dimmers you have in the rack, but how many of them have circuits you can plug fixtures into.

Have fun.

John


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks : )

Yeah, I guess 14 was just the best number to go by. 

As for the channel numbers, I have looked at the sheet many times trying to think of things, intervals of random number's and just cant come up with anything : P

And yes, I have realized that each row of houselights takes up one dimmer. And so when we assign a sub master for "House lights" we actually have 11 dimmers activate with that sub master. Or, like we did this year, House facing, and House Away.



Thank you everyone for all your help. I have learned A LOT in the short time being on this forum. Now that I know I can actually have 50 more standard fixtures not 5, Lets get some lights : D


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## derekleffew (Aug 17, 2009)

Les said:


> ...Now that I know I can actually have 50 more standard fixtures not 5, Lets get some lights : D


Not so fast there, cowboy. Just because there are 96 dimmers in the rack doesn't mean that all 96 are wired to usable outlets. So far you've told us that 1-16 are in the FOH, and the houselights take 11 more (I suspect they are dimmers 86 thru 96). There are most likely between 12 and 24 dimmers on each of your three electrics. Any other place lighting circuits might be? Do you have any plug boxes or floor pockets? Obviously, if you can't find an outlet, you can't use that dimmer, and it's most likely not wired. (On the map I attached above, I never could find outlets for two dimmers, and had to assume they were unwired.)

Disproving another of your misconceptions: you *can* put more than one light on a dimmer, by using a two-fer or three-way. (Or if a dimmer has multiple outlets--the same number appears more than once on a connector strip.) Attention must be paid to not overload the dimmer. 
As your dimmers are probably 2400 watts each, you could put:
2x 1000W fixtures
3x 750W fixtures
4x 575W fixtures
4x 500 W fixtures
on a single dimmer, provided you didn't require individual control of each light.

I'll second or third the recommendation for you to read a good textbook on stage lighting. Learning lighting via the internet may get you answers to your immediate questions, but reading a clear, chronological account of lighting design and control systems will yield a more complete and thorough understanding.


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## gafftaper (Aug 18, 2009)

Ok, let's try this. I'm still confused about how many dimmers you have. Count how many circuit breakers you have. Each circuit breaker is a dimmer. As has been said you may not be able to use some as they aren't wired. Others may be wired to two or more outlets on the other end. You need to know the wattage so that you can properly decide the correct number of lighting instruments per dimmer. 

As for DMX you've had some good answers but I think you aren't quite getting it yet so here's the explanation I gave my high school students. It's over simplified and not 100% accurate but it's close enough for your needs. The console is dumb. It has no idea if anyone is listening to it. It's sitting in the booth yelling out DMX information down the line, hoping that something is listening, but it has no idea if it is. This line can be one direct line that is daisy chained through the whole theater or it may be split into multiple lines. The console yells out the following information...
DMX address 1 and a number between 0 (0%) to 255 (100%)
Dmx address 2 and a number between 0-255
Dmx address 3 and a number between 0-255
Dmx address 4 and a number between 0-255
Dmx address 5 and a number between 0-255... all the way up to
Dmx address 512 and a number between 0-255... then it goes back to 
DMX address 1 and a number between 0-255. It does the entire cycle up to 44 times per second.

On the other end you have dimmers, and a variety of DMX controlled devices (gobo rotators, color scrollers, DMX controlled fog machines, LED fixtures, and moving lights). Each of these devices has a place on them that you can set an address number between 1 and 512. This represents the starting number that the device is listening for. Let's say you have an I-Cue and you are setting it up in four channel mode. Channel one controls Pan Coarse, two pan Fine, three Tilt Coarse, four tilt Fine. Now you set the numbers on the I-cue to read 101. This tells the I-Cue "listen for information on dmx channels 101, 102, 103, and 104." The I-Cue sits, silently ignoring the information on all other DMX channels until it hears the information for 101-104. When it hears 103 at 127 it moves the tilt to the center position. Its up to YOU running the board to make sure you send proper information to the correct channel. This gets tricky on a big mover that requires 20-30 channels of data. Pan, tilt, gobo wheel one, gobo wheel two, iris, top shutter, bottom shutter, zoom, Cyan, Yellow, Magenta, dimmer, and so on... every feature (called a parameter) of the fixture is assigned a value. If a feature is unused, it is still sent a value, usually 0 but sometimes 127 or another "default" value.

The console is dumb. It doesn't know that DMX channel 137 is the speed and direction of the first gobo's rotation on the stage left mover. It only yells out the value you tell it to yell out hoping something will happen. It doesn't know if anything is listening and it doesn't know if anything has done what it instructed. This makes programming VERY difficult on a board not designed for movers. Just programing a moving light to move in a circle is NOT easy. Think about how many changes a single fixture makes in the course of a song during a major concert. Every change in position, color, iris, gobo... every change requires programming all values that the mover is listening for. Now Hog and grandMA have been making very user friendly consoles for years that try to do some of the thinking for you. This is why they are the most commonly used consoles in the concert world. With more movers coming into straight theater, ETC and Strand have added a lot of these features to their new consoles... but it still takes a lot of time to program. The first step is always telling the board, via the fixture personality, what fixtures are connected to it at what addresses, so one can say "Fixture#1 Pan at Stage Left," instead of "101 at 36%."



Oh and haze spreads out all over the room high and low, hanging in the air as long as possible... it's how you get those cool beam of light looks in concerts. You can chill a chemical fog to keep it somewhat low to the ground, but it will kick up when actors walk through it. But the only fog that actually hugs the ground and stays is dry ice (COs) or liquid nitrogen (LN2). Everything else is potentially a fire alarm problem.


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## tjk (Aug 18, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> I have never tried it myself, but I dont really see why controlling a moving head manualy with two faders would be so hard. One for paning, one for tilt. Would definetly take some getting used to though.



I once again like to come back to that point. As I had the same idea once, I can contribute some first hand experience here...

Of course it is possible to control pan/tilt of a movinghead with two faders. If you just want to move it to a point on stage and store its position. It's a pain, but it can be done. 

But controlling it "live" is pretty much impossible, I'd say. Lets look at one of the more affordable movingheads. They usually only have 8 bit pan/tilt precision. That means the entire pan range of something like 540 degrees is devided into only 256 steps. Your smallest possible movement therefore is about 2 degrees. At a throw distance of only 30ft that already about 10in maximum precision.

But it's getting worse... Your faders are like 60mm, right? Well those 60mm hold the entire range of 256 possible values, so one value equals 0.23mm or less than 1/100 inch. You will never archive this precision with your fingers. And even if you got a 16 bit fixture... then there would be two faders for pan(fine) and pan(coarse). So you won't win anything here, as the coarse faders shows the same problems as the 8 bit fader and the fine fader covers a way to small range (the 10in mentioned above). 

But we are not there, yet... If you move a fader slower than the motor of the movinghead moves, the light would "jump" instead of a smooth movement. That you won't have motorized iris or focus with a cheap fixture does not need to be mentioned, right?

So as a conclusion i'd say: A movinghead as a followspot: Don't even bother trying...

-Thorsten


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## mstaylor (Aug 18, 2009)

What they have started doing in the concert side is taking a mover and using it as person operated followspot but retains the irs, shutter, color etc at the board. So the operator points and the LD does the rest.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 18, 2009)

Hello~

Derek, 
So, When I open up my dimmer rack, the i-96 (My Retrevo - My Manuals). It is part of Colortran's i Series of dimmer racks, the biggest size int he series. So when I open it up, I see 48 modules I could remove, and on the bottom row there is a device I am guessing is the racks CPU, to engage the racks cooling system and engage the theatre cooling system. And on each of the 48 modules I see two switches/breakers on the far left of each module.

As for extra outlets, yes, there are many unused outlits along our fly bars.
I dont think there are any along the floor, non that I have seen.

So, can someone jsut clear this up? I have the i96 Dimmer rack with 48 indivudal modules, each with two breakers, does this meen I can control 96 lights individually, or only 48 individually? 
Well, I guess I can only use whoever many outlits there are, besides the houslights, every socket is labled, in the foh bar there is 1-16, spotlights, a spot udner each number. And we have three fly bars with labled outlits. So if I loose my cheat sheet, or re-arange lights I just make up a new paper going by the numbers on the outlits.

I jsut realise,d we dont use twist-lock wires, all our lights have those big ectangle ones, Don't know the name.




How did you know our houslights were on the last dimmers? 0.0



Gafftaper,
Answered about the breakers at beggining of this post.

And thank you for explaining that 



tjk (I played a MMO with someone of that username...)
Okay then, but do you know if the ETC Element has any good or very basic moving light contorls? I know its good for LED lights.


And yeah, we would lable everything, on our current board, the Leviton Status, There is a pretyt big gap between bump buttons and the next row of slider. And so we put down that yellow tape (Why cant I remember names...) and while I am programming the bard for anything I will wright it down on the tape. And on ETC Expression 3 we were borrowing everything was labled in the software on the board.


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## gafftaper (Aug 18, 2009)

So yes it sounds like you have 96 dimmers.

Knowing the number of dimmers is nice but it's only half the critical information. So the second question is do the dimmers say their wattage rating on them anywhere? They are PROBABLY 2,400 watts (typically known as 2.4k's) but could be 1.2k's See above for what that means in terms of the number of fixtures you can control. 

The third question is how many outlets do you have? The idea of mapping out your space would be very helpful to you at this point. 

...and no you don't want to use a mover as a follow spot. I experimented with that when I was a poor high school drama teacher using an I-cue. I got it to work for very simple moves. The actor is stage left and moves to stage right on cue. It's a short walk and the actor has to follow the light. This is surprisingly hard for an actor to do. I wasted unbelievable amounts of time trying to get an actress to do this right. She was really skilled to. The problem is it's very hard for the actor to see the total circle of light around them and keep them self in the center as that light is moving... while they are acting on stage. We eventually got it right and used it for ONE simple move in a show. I never tried it again it's just too difficult.


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## Les (Aug 18, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> ...So when I open it up, I see 48 modules I could remove, and on the bottom row there is a device I am guessing is the racks CPU, to engage the racks cooling system and engage the theatre cooling system. And on each of the 48 modules I see two switches/breakers on the far left of each module.



Each of those 2 breakers controls one of the dimmers within the module. So, yes you have a 96ch rack (96 dimmers), hence the name 'i96'. The module at the bottom is in fact the processing unit but it does way more than control the dimmer's cooling system, which is little more than a fan on top. It has nothing to do with the theatre's cooling (HVAC) system, which you seem to elude to. This processing unit is what is responsible for communicating with your light board. The board sends it DMX values and in your case this processor translates these values into lighting levels and sends the appropriate current to the dimmers. The dimmers send the power to your labeled outlets, which will correspond to the number of the dimmer module. It may or may not correspond to the channel number on your board, as this can be changed through soft patching. So assuming you have 48 modules in your rack (no "dummy" air flow modules), you should be able to plug an instrument in to any labeled circuit in your space and expect it to work. Take note of which dimmers control your houselights and put a piece of spike tape on them for future reference. These dimmer numbers will not be represented by a plug on stage. They should be dedicated to houselights and there will be no way to get any other use out of them.

I've mentioned a few times the "dimmer number". What I'm saying is, there should be a pair of numbers printed next to each module. This is the physical dimmer's number (not to be confused with channel number) and cannot be changed. You could switch around the modules all day long (with the proper supervision  ) but the module in that particular spot will always control the same outlet(s). These dimmers will not be in numerical order as you would expect. They will be scattered seemingly randomly throughout the rack. This is for load balancing. 
It would not be a bad idea to make a dimmer schedule, which will tell you which dimmers control which circuits on stage (ie. 1-16 FOH, 82-96 HOUSE, etc.). This guide will always stay the same unless you were to totally rewire the system. The only thing that can and will change is the patching (Dimmer 5 @ Channel 16, Dimmers 3,6,7,12 @ Channel 4, etc.).

I have also used the term "airflow module". This will look like a dimmer module but it will have no internal parts. It will simply be a space filler (ex: they couldn't afford to fill the rack with dimmers so they bought 10 airflow modules). The reason for this module is for safety. It will close any open gaps caused by missing modules, and it will keep the air circulation within the system correct. With a missing module, the air flow will be thrown off and this could lead to overheating of the rack. The best way to tell if you have airflow modules: Do all your dimmer modules have breakers? If yes, they are real dimmers. If there is simply a "blank" where the breakers should be, it is an airflow module. It doesn't sound like you have any of these, but you should check to make sure.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 18, 2009)

Okay, I will see if there is any empty modules, and as for the voltage, I would only assume it is in the manual for the rack I posted in my last post.
I will try to map out the room when I am there for a while next.

I only thought it might control the theatres cooling because say the room is pitch black and silent, dimmer rack is off and ac is off. If I turn on the houselights, first the theatres air conditioned roars to life, then the dimmers fans turn on then the lights turn on. Its always freezing in the theatre because if the dimmers are in use the AC is on and for 40 mintues after the dimmers are off. 

Brrrr


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## Les (Aug 18, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> I only thought it might control the theatres cooling because say the room is pitch black and silent, dimmer rack is off and ac is off. If I turn on the houselights, first the theatres air conditioned roars to life, then the dimmers fans turn on then the lights turn on. Its always freezing in the theatre because if the dimmers are in use the AC is on and for 40 mintues after the dimmers are off.



That is about the strangest thing I have ever heard of. Not quite, but about. Air conditioning will of course be activated when the room reaches a certain temperature (maybe an increase of heat due to lights) but I have never heard of an air conditioning system being activated by a lighting system. New acronym: DMXHVAC. 

It is highly likely that the dimmer room's AC system is indirectly activated by turning on the lights. It should remain steady at a pretty cool temperature, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is activated by the heat generated by the dimmers. As far as the auditorium's system, sounds highly unlikely to me. There's got to be something else going on.


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## cprted (Aug 18, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Okay, I will see if there is any empty modules, and as for the voltage, I would only assume it is in the manual for the rack I posted in my last post.


You're looking for WATTS, not volts. 1.2kW, 2.4kW, etc.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 18, 2009)

Les, 

Maybe it isn't always on, but like 80% of the time, stage lights are on, so is the cooling system. I don't know really why, but its just to maximize safety I suppose. Being in a smaller space, the lights a VERY close to the curtains and once the cooling system had a little glitch and did not turn on, and we had to take an unexpected intermission and turn of the lights and open all the doors it was getting way way to hot to be safe. I'll take a look to see if there us some kind of wiring mess up but I think there isn't.
(The dimmer room is on the SR wing, and so is the air conditioning unit X_X hanging right above SR wing. But saprisingly, the ac unit because a very powerful one, isnt the thing makign most noise, its the dimmer racks cooling fans, those thigns are spinning peeeeerrrty fast, we made somethign to put over it without loosing much airflow and it cuts down the noise a lot. Without it all you can hear is a humming.

Anyways, I think its always on just to be safe, better have snow falling then a fire right?


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 18, 2009)

-off topic-
I want one of those moving head fog machines  SO cool.... But we would be lucky to get any commercial hazer xD

-On topic-

Yeah, sorry cprted, Was just looking for a electricity value.


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## Clifford (Aug 18, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Anyways, I think its always on just to be safe, better have snow falling then a fire right?



Not if you're trying to light a fire to stay alive in the snow.

Watts is the easiest thing to look for. However your modules may not be labeled with their wattage. The breakers, however, will state their amperage. If the wattage isn't labeled, multiply the voltage by the amperage on the breakers. I assume you're running 120V if you're in the US. So if your breakers all said 20A, 120V * 20A = 2,400W, or 2.4kW.


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## Lightingguy32 (Aug 18, 2009)

most dimmers of the type described in this thread have a label near the status indicator lights. The number corresponds to a current (such as 10, 15, or 20) and the wattage is determined roughly by multiplying the labeled current by 120(volts).


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## Les (Aug 18, 2009)

Hate to say it but if your AC is the only thing keeping your softgoods from bursting into flames, your instruments are way too close. 

Also, I am skeptical about this cover over your dimmers. I know noise is an issue, but any blocked airflow is too much. Not that I haven't done similar things in the past, but I would take a hard look at whether or not this cover is causing a potential fire hazard.


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## renegadeblack (Aug 19, 2009)

Clifford said:


> Not if you're trying to light a fire to stay alive in the snow.
> 
> Watts is the easiest thing to look for. However your modules may not be labeled with their wattage. The breakers, however, will state their amperage. If the wattage isn't labeled, multiply the voltage by the amperage on the breakers. I assume you're running 120V if you're in the US. So if your breakers all said 20A, 120V * 20A = 2,400W, or 2.4kW.



I believe that the only module offered is 2.4 kW.

Also, pardon the brief hijack:
On my rack, its labelled on the left side and right in the middle, theres an airflow module that has B0 where theres an airflow module. I believe that there is one that is mandatory in the middle.


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## derekleffew (Aug 19, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> ...I jsut realise,d we dont use twist-lock wires, all our lights have those big ectangle ones, Don't know the name. ...


Stage Pin Connector.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 19, 2009)

Clifford, Not 100%, but very sure that they are 2.4, someone else here said they have the same rack, it comes with the dimmers pre-installed, so guessing its the same, I believe it was you renegadeblack?





Les, 
Well, if there was no AC no the curtains wouldn't go up in flames, but they are a little closer then I have seen the in most places, so the AC just helps to make sure that things like that don't happen. 
Curtains of course are flame retardent and I would never put them so close they would catch the curtains on fire.
And for the cover, any intake reduction I think is substituted by it being pretty chilly on stage in the first place, and like I said, it doesn't alter airflow hardly any, All it is is a wooden box with no top and bottom, with just one of those black plastic screens on the top, so it sits right on top of the fan still allowing air to enter the unit. This reduces the noise a LOT because instead of the noise spreading in all directions, mostly left toward the stage, the noise bounces off the wood and travels straight up into the ceiling. It was designed by me and the man working the theatre before I came along, hes some what of a pro, hes into sound engineering, used to be all theatre.


Renegadeblack, yeah, you were the one who said you had the Colortran i92 right? 



drereklefew,
Yup thats it


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## shiben (Aug 19, 2009)

If your airflow is blocked, you can have so many issues. We actually had our CD-80 rack shut down because it was too hot, some dude from the cleaning crew put some tables blocking the air intake, and the heat sensor tripped during a very high profile show. So if for no other reason, move whatever it is blocking the airflow because your show is then in danger, also you have a fire hazard, and its bad for the dimmers, etc. Just bad all around. And if your lights are close enough for burning any soft goods, why? That is way too close. Probably looks silly too, I imagine that if a source 4 is too close to a teaser it might bleed thru, especially if its old (the teaser). Anyhow, thats an odd system, and i like the DMX-HVAC


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## Clifford (Aug 20, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Clifford, Not 100%, but very sure that they are 2.4, someone else here said they have the same rack, it comes with the dimmers pre-installed, so guessing its the same, I believe it was you renegadeblack?



While we could assume, logically, that you're using 2.4kW units, you really need to _know_ what you have. From what I could find on Leviton's website, the iSeries E can be equipped with dual 1.8kW modules, dual 2.4kW modules, single 6.0kW modules (50A), and 15A or 20A relays (non-dim modules that are on or off).

Again, most likely you're using 2.4kW units, but you may find that you have a few 1.8kW units, maybe even a few relays. When you check your rack, look at every module, not just one.


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## gafftaper (Aug 20, 2009)

Dimmer Wattage: Look closely at the circuit breakers. They should have a number on them. 20amps= 2.4k watts 10amps= 1.2k watts

The Accu Fog: It's been a source of a lot of laughter around here. Fog generally spreads EVERYWHERE. You don't need to be able to point it at strategic locations that are constantly changing. It would look kind of cool in a small club falling down on you... if chemical fog actually fell like dry ice fog. 

Fire Retardant and Curtains: How old are your curtains? Have they had their fire retardant actually tested in the last 10 years? They are treated yes, but it degrades over time. Most schools put in curtains and figure they are safe forever but that just isn't true. My MINIMUM testing schedule, you should have your fire retardancy tested before the curtains reach 10 years of age, then again every 3-5 years. If they ever get wet you need to have them retested immediately. I know lots of schools that have 20+ year old curtains that have never been tested. They think are fire retardant and safe... but you just never know. Here's something you can do right now. Take a close look at the curtains, do you see any weird discoloration in them? Imagine if you took a shirt and washed it in a lot of soap and without rinsing the soap out you left it in the sun to dry, you would see this weird residue sort of swirled into the shirt. That's what you are looking for. That's a visual sign that your fire retardant is failing. On the other hand not seeing any visual signs of failure doesn't mean the curtains are safe. You need to have them tested to know they are safe.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 20, 2009)

Shiben, 
As I said, we have made sure that our little box does not alter airflow at all. It is simply a square box with no top of bottom sitting on top of the rack, so it has no bottom so the fan is still exposed and is sucking in air, the air is just coming from more upward then from right next to it.

Clifford,
I will check next time I am at the school. But being just a student, I cant just walk in during the summer unless its something really important for the theatre.


Gafftaper,

Yeah I kind of figured that about the accu fog thing xD But it looks kinda cool : )
The curtains are original from the time the theatre was built, I do beleive they have been tested, but I dont really know, thats more up to maintenance, but I will talk about the curtains with the guy we have comming in, being the same person who was here when they were installed.
As for dis-coloration I have not seen any, I will look closly for them though when I am there.

The lights arent so close that they will burn the curtains, I just said that because, if htere is no AC, then curtains or not its going to get pretty dang hot in there, especially on stage. Im not sure how much heat the curtains can take without burning, And so I will keep in mind the curtains when we are re-aranging hte lights.


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## gafftaper (Aug 20, 2009)

Long ago... when I didn't know much... I was working in a theater that had the dimmer rack installed about 3 feet from actually being on stage and less than 15 feet from the audience. They were Loud and distracting. I tried building a box around them but they began to do all kinds of crazy things. I immediately removed the box because they were clearly getting too hot. All problems went away again.


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## renegadeblack (Aug 21, 2009)

Yes, it was me that has the same rack as you.

Also, the fan on top of the dimmers is angled, so a box that goes straight up will obstruct the air flow either way.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 13, 2009)

(Sorry been away a while)


That's odd Renegade, ours seems to be flat, but either way, we have never had any problem with over heating in the last 6 years.


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## teqniqal (Sep 13, 2009)

shiben said:


> If your airflow is blocked, you can have so many issues. We actually had our CD-80 rack shut down because it was too hot, some dude from the cleaning crew put some tables blocking the air intake, and the heat sensor tripped during a very high profile show. So if for no other reason, move whatever it is blocking the airflow because your show is then in danger, also you have a fire hazard, and its bad for the dimmers, etc. Just bad all around. And if your lights are close enough for burning any soft goods, why? That is way too close. Probably looks silly too, I imagine that if a source 4 is too close to a teaser it might bleed thru, especially if its old (the teaser). Anyhow, thats an odd system, and i like the DMX-HVAC


 
Dimmer Racks are considered "Panelboards" as far as the National Electric Code (NEC) is concerned, and the space 42" deep directly in front them must be kept clear at ALL times. No chairs, No boxes, No tables, No Props, No Scenery (see a pattern here?). All too frequently I find Fire Extinguishers, Fire Alarm Pull Stations, Circuit Breaker Panels (Panelboards), Fire Hose Cabinets, Fire Alarm Control Panels, and the Fire Curtain Release Station(s) blocked by 'junk'. This is bad JuJu. Do Not Do This. Install Signage on the face of the device (or adjacent to it) AND on the floor infront of it that clearly informs people that it is a violation of the Life Safety Code (NFPA 101) to place anything there. Black and Yellow Glow-in-the-dark marker tape can also be helpful to mark the wall and floor around / in front of these items .

Alsoof interest is the configuration of the dimmer rack CPU ("brain", "Control Module", etc.) with regard to the houselights circuits. Any time that the auditorium is occupied (by even one operson) the houselights must cast a minimum of 1/2 foot-candle on all of the aisles and egress paths. Many CPU's can be programmed to place a lowere level limit on individual dimmer circuits. Regardless of how cool a total balck-out may be, or how badly the director or lighting designer wants it, you cannot do this. Period. End of sentence. If you have access to the houselight dimmers as part of your console functions, or even if they are a separately controlled system, you need to have this function properly implemented so that unless the Dimmer Rack is completely turned-off, the houselights won't go to total black. If you cannot figure-out how set this up, contact an expert and pay them to do it.

This also relates to the 'feature' mentioned ealier where the HVAC system came on everytime the dimmer system was activated. Yes, the dimming system was deliberately tied to the HVAC system so that air circulation would be maintained during periods of occupancy. Building Codes require an exchange of air. As to the 'meat locker' conditions, it sounds like the building engineer needs to make some adjustments. They probably made some erroneous pre-construction estimates about the number of bodies that would occupy the room, and how much heat they would generate. This can be fixed, and should be, as we all want to be 'green'.

The wooden box placed upon the top of the dimmer rack to divert the exhaust fan noise upward should also be reviwed by the HVAC engineer. Wood is combustable and has no place around hot electrical equipment, particualrly on or around a theatre stage. That is why air ducts are made from sheet metal and have non-combustable acoustical linings. It would cost very little to have a few feet of metal duct with an acoustical liner facricated and installed in a manner that would direct the noise and exhaust air upward. Sorry to hear you were the victim of yet another idiot that placed the dimmer rack(s) on stage. It's all too common that someone that just doesn't 'get' theatre to design the systems for it.

As to the hot stage lights potentially burning a hole in the drapes - yes, this is a very real danger. Most stage drapery companies fabricate and sell fire-proof heat shields to be installed on the back-side of the border drapes and legs. This does not help the front side, but the lights are usually behind a border, not directly in front of one. If your masking plan and stage electrics are not arranged this way, then is should be reviewed and reconfigured as this would likely be a poor design.

As the other responder said, too: Have the fire proofing on the drapes checked. If you can find the tag on the drape, it should show the date of manufacture (as opposed to the date of sale or installation) and possibly the name of the fire retardant applied. If it does not, then ALL bets are off. When purchasing new drapes: INSIST that each drape has a unique serial number, and that the tag shows the date of treatment, the chemical process applied, and the recommended service / reapplication interval. It is also common to have them leave a set of fabric test trips sewn to the back of the curtain - typically 5-10 strips that are 10-12" long x 1-2" wide, minimum. More are better so they can be tested annually for the life of the soft goods.


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## derekleffew (Sep 14, 2009)

teqniqal said:


> ... the houselights must cast a minimum of 1/2 foot-candle on all of the aisles and egress paths. ...


Erich, while I can certainly agree with and appreciate the need for minimum egress lighting levels, I can't believe there's a requirement that the illumination MUST come from auditorium ceiling houselight fixtures. Would not aisle lights, mounted on the ends of seat rows, or embedded in the finished floor, serve this purpose? I can't recall ever being in a theatre-type venue (except for a cinema) where the houselights could not be dimmed to 0%.


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## STEVETERRY (Sep 14, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> Erich, while I can certainly agree with and appreciate the need for minimum egress lighting levels, I can't believe there's a requirement that the illumination MUST come from auditorium ceiling houselight fixtures. Would not aisle lights, mounted on the ends of seat rows, or embedded in the finished floor, serve this purpose? I can't recall ever being in a theatre-type venue (except for a cinema) where the houselights could not be dimmed to 0%.



I would agree with that view--NFPA 101 (Life Safety Code) Section 7.8 "Illuminating Means of Egress" does not specify which fixtures must provide the illumination. 

The required illumination level is 0.2 footcandles during performances in assembly occupancies. This illumination can even be provided by exit signs per section 7.8.1.5, providing the levels of 0.2 fc of 7.8.1.3 (3) are met.

Unless there is some other code at work here, NFPA 101 will clearly let you dim the houselights to zero, as long as you have 0.2 fc from some other source.

In addition, section 7.8.1.3 (4) says "The minimum illumination requirements shall not apply where operations or processes require low lighting levels". That is how it was allowable to turn off the exit signs in the Shubert Theatre during the first 15 seconds of the Broadway production of "A Chorus Line", while the cast came on stage during a real blackout.

What did I miss?

ST


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## derekleffew (Sep 14, 2009)

STEVETERRY said:


> ...In addition, section 7.8.1.3 (4) says "The minimum illumination requirements shall not apply where operations or processes require low lighting levels". That is how it was allowable to turn off the exit signs in the Shubert Theatre during the first 15 seconds of the Broadway production of "A Chorus Line", while the cast came on stage during a real blackout. ...


A practice that continues, apparently, with the current national tour:

sobenson said:


> I just did the _A Chorus Line_ National Touring Company, and for the initial reveal of the mirrors, they asked and I got permission from the Fire Marshal to turn off the aisle lights for the first black out, lasting no more than 30 seconds. At that same time we had ushers cover the exit signs with placards.


Caution to readers: These are cases of professional productions and venues, with all possible safety procedures in place, and PRIOR PERMISSION and APPROVAL from the AHJ.


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## STEVETERRY (Sep 14, 2009)

teqniqal said:


> Dimmer Racks are considered "Panelboards" as far as the National Electric Code (NEC) is concerned, and the space 42" deep directly in front them must be kept clear at ALL times. .



Erich--

A dimmer rack is generally considered a dead-front switchboard. I think NEC Table 110.26(A)(1) Condition 1 for 151-600V applies, which would mean 36" clearance rather than the 42" you mentioned. 

Condition 2 would require 42" space, but modern dimmer rack design makes it highly unlikely that there will be exposed live parts during inspection or servicing--the rack will be de-energized. This is especially true in light of the arc-flash requirements of NFPA70E.

Was there a reason I missed that you specified 42"?

Cheers

ST


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## teqniqal (Sep 16, 2009)

STEVETERRY said:


> I would agree with that view--NFPA 101 (Life Safety Code) Section 7.8 "Illuminating Means of Egress" does not specify which fixtures must provide the illumination.
> 
> The required illumination level is 0.2 footcandles during performances in assembly occupancies. This illumination can even be provided by exit signs per section 7.8.1.5, providing the levels of 0.2 fc of 7.8.1.3 (3) are met.
> 
> ...


My apoligies for not being more clear. When I said "houselights" I meant it inclusive of any supplementary aisle lighting. "Houselights" are a system of fixtures, not just the ones in the ceiling. It can also include wall sconces, cove lights, emergency lights, exit lights, etc.

The reason I quote the 1/2 foot-candle level is because 0.2 (1/5) fc is the _minimum_ requirement, and most light meters that people use in theatres do not have NIST traceble calibration, and may not be that accurate to begin with, so to err on the high side tends to ensure that you have not erred on the low side. Then there is the effect of lumen depriciation, burned-out lamps, dirt, and other human factors that have to do with old people not being able to see well in low lighting conditions.

As noted elsewhere, just because people do it doesn't mean it is legal. I think that if you run the idea of doing something illegal past your school's legal department, you will usually get a resounding "NO", so why bother? (doing the illegal thing that is, not asking the legal department). With regard to section 7.8.1.3 (4), I think we run enough risks working in dark theatres that it's hardly "worth it" to put the audience in peril for such an effect. At least I wouldn't want to have to sit in courtroom and explain it to a jury. I've got better things to do with my time.

-Erich Friend
Teqniqal Systems, LLC


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 16, 2009)

All of our exits have the lit EXIT signs on them.


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## teqniqal (Sep 16, 2009)

STEVETERRY said:


> Erich--
> 
> A dimmer rack is generally considered a dead-front switchboard. I think NEC Table 110.26(A)(1) Condition 1 for 151-600V applies, which would mean 36" clearance rather than the 42" you mentioned.
> 
> ...


 
No, you didn't miss anything as far as the NEC applies. The reason I use the 42" rule is that frequently there are other panelboards that meet that requirement in and about theatres, so I use the broader definition as a blanket dimension. Why confuse people with "this is 36, that is 42" ? An extra 6" of clearance is typically a good thing anyway, as people will always try to crowd things right-up to the limit.

Also remember: the 36"/42" rules are a _minimum_ requirement, not an absolute distance. Another reason for the 42" specification is that the 36" rule is frequently misinterpreted as being measured from the wall, not from the face of the dimmer rack / panelboard, so this assures a bit more clearance (even though they will come-up short in the long-run).

And lastly, I like a little more room to work around electricity - so what is the harm in laying claim to a little more real estate?
-Erich Friend
Teqniqal Systems


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## ptero (Sep 17, 2009)

Regarding how many dimmers are in a 96 rack: 

I once ran across a newly installed ETC 96 rack in a high school. They were having trouble making some fixtures work when hung and plugged into a numbered outlet. Turned out they wired the place for 96 dimmers, there were 96 numbered outlets throughout the theatre, but they loaded the rack with 24 dual modules for a total of 48 working dimmers. 

So, any of the 96 outlets could be used, BUT modules had to be shuffled around in the rack to 'power' the desired outlets. The Dimmer One position in the rack = Outlet #1 in the theatre. But without a module - no workie. 

With a module in place to drive #1, #2 was also drivable, due to the 2 dimmers/module deal. That is - drivable separately, assuming the softpatch on the console was patched to control them separately with separate Channels. 

When hanging a plot, they had to pay attention to using outlets in pairs. Then go to the rack and move modules accordingly. Or, not use all 48 dimmers. Oy. They sort of ended up with the modules in every other slot as a basic setup. Then they'd shuffle them as necessary for specific needs.

Boy, I hope that makes sense.  

I imagine someone was thinking of future expansion by way of just having to purchase modules to fill it up in the future. But the basic paperwork and manual on site made no mention of this. 

ANYWAY, look for all those breakers. Make sure the rack is indeed full 48 Modules/96 Dimmers and not a bunch of filler airflow blanks. Because there is a numbered outlet out there doesn't mean it's gonna work.


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## kenneth (Sep 17, 2009)

My drama teacher has told me that we are getting some new digital dimmers - what's the difference between the new (tiny little box) of digital ones and the old big huge ones?
Thanks
K


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## icewolf08 (Sep 17, 2009)

kenneth said:


> My drama teacher has told me that we are getting some new digital dimmers - what's the difference between the new (tiny little box) of digital ones and the old big huge ones?
> Thanks
> K



The difference is mainly in control. Newer dimmers take a digital control signal, where older dimmers used and analog control. The other major thing you will notice is that newer dimmers are smaller. The technology has advanced such that we can fit all the electronics into a smaller form factor.


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## kenneth (Sep 17, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> The difference is mainly in control. Newer dimmers take a digital control signal, where older dimmers used and analog control. The other major thing you will notice is that newer dimmers are smaller. The technology has advanced such that we can fit all the electronics into a smaller form factor.


Ace. Apparently we won't use the huge toilet-handle style switches too?
Thanks


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## renegadeblack (Sep 17, 2009)

kenneth said:


> Ace. Apparently we won't use the huge toilet-handle style switches too?
> Thanks



Nope, you'll be using something different and that will be much easier to use. Something like the ETC Element, or if your school is cheaping out and doesn't like you, the Innovator. If you find yourself with an Innovator, save your sanity and quit now... I wish I had...


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## Tex (Sep 17, 2009)

> If you find yourself with an Innovator, save your sanity and quit now... I wish I had...


Now, now. There's no need to scare the poor guy. 
I have an Innovator, and while it's not what I would have chosen, it's been quite servicable so far. I'm even using it with intelligent lights and I haven't punched a wall or pulled out any hair (not even my own.) The only problems I've had have been (L)user created.
You'll be OK, even if you do get an Innovator.


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