# origin of a ghost light?



## zac850 (Jun 9, 2004)

I was just wondering what the origin of a ghost light was? Keeping a random light on stage all night dosen't seem like it has a point... just seems like a waste of electricity...

Is there a reason for it?

Personally, my school dosen't keep a ghost light on, but we're also a gym/cafeteria/theater, so thats another reason. The local theater i'm starting to do stuff at keeps a ghost light on at night.

Yea, i'm getting side tracked, Anyway, whats the point of it?


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## OnWithTheShow (Jun 9, 2004)

Most theatre's light switches are not located right next to the door. The ghost light provides a little bit of light for someone to reach the controls without walking into a set piece or other object and injuring themselves.


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## digitaltec (Jun 9, 2004)

A light left on when a theatre is locked up for the night, the ghost light has several purposes. The light is placed on stage so that the first and last people in and out of the theatre may safely find their way. In olden days, ghost lights were gas flames and served as pressure release valves for a theatre’s gas system. 

According to myth, the ghost light is also left on to ensure that the theatre is never “dark” and to keep the theatre muse happy. Supposedly, the light illuminates good ghosts while keeping bad spirits at bay. When all the theatre lights go out, the ghosts think they have been abandoned and create accidents and mischief. 

Now, I can post the entire theory behind the ghost light or you chould just do a search on the net. Basicly it's an old Myth. Just listen to the soundtrack for The Phantom of the Opera.


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## soundman (Jun 10, 2004)

dont forget to keep the box seat empty.


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## HMOcidalmaniac (Jun 11, 2004)

i was given to under stand by someone wise that they had a practical purpose: to keep the gas pressure from building up too much and going kablooey during the night, or when the next person when walks in with an open source of flame


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## StageSweetheart (Jun 11, 2004)

I agree with digitaltech...at our theatre, the "ghost" myth is what we go by, as well as the fact that the ghost light provides much needed lighting when first entering a theatre. The name "ghost light" seems to only make sense if you're going along with the myth. Plus, ghost light, ghosts in your theatre, how cool is that!!??


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## Smatticus (Jun 25, 2004)

I haven't been on the site in quite a while and was browsing posts since my last visit when I came across this post. I didn't know that ghost lights referred to lights left on when a theatre wasn't in use. The experience I've had with the word 'ghost' I've had someone describe 'ghosting'... which I've understood is like a glitch when you loose control of one or more instruments and they just stay on. For example, during a dance recital last year we were going to a blackout and we had a number of instruments remain on despite every channel being at zero, the master being at zero, and the presets being turned off. The TD I work with calls this 'ghosting' though I do not know what it is caused by. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?


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## ecglstec (Jun 25, 2004)

Ghosts lights are lights that are meant to illuminate the stage when you first walk in. Some are on stands that are placed center stage, others are fixed to walls. See above ^^^^

Ghosting is when a dimmer operates sporadically; sometimes not going off or at other times flickering. They are two entirely different terms. Ghosting is typically caused by a faulty dimmer, but can occasionally be a faulty console or cable. Ghosting circuits suck and present a danger to inexperienced electricians who assume that a dimmer off at the console = no power on the circuit.


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## Mayhem (Jun 25, 2004)

Smatticus said:


> I haven't been on the site in quite a while and was browsing posts since my last visit when I came across this post. I didn't know that ghost lights referred to lights left on when a theatre wasn't in use. The experience I've had with the word 'ghost' I've had someone describe 'ghosting'... which I've understood is like a glitch when you loose control of one or more instruments and they just stay on. For example, during a dance recital last year we were going to a blackout and we had a number of instruments remain on despite every channel being at zero, the master being at zero, and the presets being turned off. The TD I work with calls this 'ghosting' though I do not know what it is caused by. Has anyone else experienced anything like this?



The only time I have seen this happen is when the optocoupler controlling the triac failed. As such, the channel remained illuminated despite any attempts to dim it


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## ecglstec (Jun 25, 2004)

Typically it is in the actual dimmer, but there are quite a few times, especially in analog adapted systems, when the contol cards fail or the DMX to analog converter can fail.


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## Smatticus (Jun 26, 2004)

Ah ok, I had just never heard the word ghost used in two different contexts as was brought up in this post. Dimmers operating sporadically sounds like a reasonable definition, though our system is any kind of adapted analog system, atleast that I am aware of, it is all two year old ETC equipment. And Mayhem, I have no idea what you said. :? I do know that we have made mistakes when running our board where channels would not go down as I described... I believe in the event that you accidentally Park channels at full or whatever intensity they remain that way even with the grandmaster down until they are released from Park. This happened quite recently when I came in to do a show, someone had messed with the board and accidentally Parked a bunch of lights and dimmers. Consequently I now check for Parked dimmers and channels as soon as it looks like something won't turn off when I want it to.


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## Mayhem (Jun 26, 2004)

Smatticus said:


> Ah ok, I had just never heard the word ghost used in two different contexts as was brought up in this post. Dimmers operating sporadically sounds like a reasonable definition, though our system is any kind of adapted analog system, atleast that I am aware of, it is all two year old ETC equipment. And Mayhem, I have no idea what you said. :? I do know that we have made mistakes when running our board where channels would not go down as I described... I believe in the event that you accidentally Park channels at full or whatever intensity they remain that way even with the grandmaster down until they are released from Park. This happened quite recently when I came in to do a show, someone had messed with the board and accidentally Parked a bunch of lights and dimmers. Consequently I now check for Parked dimmers and channels as soon as it looks like something won't turn off when I want it to.



I wasn't aware of this aspect. I have a service manual for the event in my workshop so I will have to have a look. However, I am sure that you would have checked this, having previously identified it as a problem.

What happens if you run the dimmer without any input from the board?


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## mr_sound (Jun 27, 2004)

and i thought the ghost light was just a tradition limited to the theater i work at. well for us, it's to please the ghosts. the emergency exit lights cast enough of a glow to see the light switches...so the light isn't there for that reason...though it does help.

now here's a question...if the light has to be on to please the ghosts, what happens when you turn on the lights in the theater and no longer need the ghost light? we used to keep ours on, hidden away in one of the wings, but that just got annoying so now everyone turns it off when they come in. if having the light on keeps the ghosts happy, then wouldn't turning it off at all make the ghosts mad?

of course we don't need to have the ghost light off for strange things to happen......the building is old enough to do that on its own.


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## zac850 (Jun 27, 2004)

hum, I think its that the ghosts don't like a darkened theater. However, if thats the case, wouldn't they get mad during every blackout?

By the way, I don't know about everyone else, but i don't believe in ghosts.


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## mr_sound (Jun 27, 2004)

oh well i've always beleived in them. i don't buy the whole ghost light thing though....not to the point where i'd be afraid to turn it off at night. but hell, with 10 grand of my sound gear sitting there at night......i tend to be a little paranoid.

but our theater is actually haunted. various people have actually seen ghosts.

now that i think about it, in high school we never had a ghost light on in our theater......that i know about.


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## sallyj (Jul 1, 2004)

In some states, I think that the ghost light is a law-they just don't call it a ghost light. It is a safety thing, so if somebody is crossing the dark stage, they won't walk off the edge or into the pit.
I like the idea of keeping the theatre muse, or ghost happy. Our theatre supposedly has upwards of five ghosts. All I will say about that is that somebody not of this plane lives in the theatre.
As for location, down center stage is probably best. Ours usually hangs a little bit stage left because the cable for it isn't long enough, and who wants to mess w/ extension cords? Our ghost light used to be permenantly mounted on the down left wall, but it was removed.

SJM


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## The_Guest (Jul 4, 2004)

First of all you need some light to light up the theater, not everyone is smart enough to open the ETC light switch buttons to signal the aux console to turn on the cats, house, wings, etc. Theaters do not have any windows, its pretty dangerous to walk around in them in the dark. Plus, what would you rather do: keep the house lights fairly dim and change all of them regularly or simply buy a cheap hardware store long life florescent bulb and plug it into the AC on stage. House lights are already hard enough to change as it is, the ghost makes so much more sense. Someone always forgets something and there are people (principals/janators) that really have no clue how to turn on the lights.


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## Inaki2 (Jul 6, 2004)

Oooohhh trust me, ghost lights are usefull...I should Know, can't remember how many times I've crashed thru the set trying to get to a light switch!!!


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## Smatticus (Jul 6, 2004)

Now that I think about it, we have no ghost lights in our theatre, anything you leave on that is controlled by the system it turns off. Fortunately all of the switches and preset buttons are right next to the backstage door and main entrances, where there are no switches we don't ussually enter and exit from.


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## Les (Jul 9, 2004)

In some states it is actually against the law to not have a ghost light. If you don't have a ghost light, and a theif breaks in at night, falls off the stage and breaks his leg, he could actually sue you for damages.


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## Toul (Jul 20, 2004)

zac850 said:


> hum, I think its that the ghosts don't like a darkened theater. However, if thats the case, wouldn't they get mad during every blackout?


I think the ghosts are happy whenever there is activity in the theatre. With a live audience living and breathing in the house, they'll be super-happy, even if all the lights go out occasionally. In rehearsals, there are performers with energy to feed off of. I think that theatrical ghosts, in general, are pretty easy to keep happy. Just don't anger them.

We don't have a ghost light _per se_, but we always leave the fluorescent bulb in the light lab on. This produces enough light to get to the Unison switch.


Lester said:


> In some states it is actually against the law to not have a ghost light. If you don't have a ghost light, and a theif breaks in at night, falls off the stage and breaks his leg, he could actually sue you for damages.


If that's true, it's incredibly ironic.


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## zac850 (Jul 20, 2004)

Toul said:


> Lester said:
> 
> 
> > In some states it is actually against the law to not have a ghost light. If you don't have a ghost light, and a theif breaks in at night, falls off the stage and breaks his leg, he could actually sue you for damages.
> ...



yea, it is true. There have been times when a crook breaks into someone's house to steal something, and ends up falling and hurting himself, sued for damages, and won.

What is this world coming to?


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## ricc0luke (Jul 20, 2004)

I sure wish we had a ghost light...

When you first walk in there is the switch to the BS hallway. Once you get on the stage there is one set of worklights in the back of the stage right there that you can turn on. However... during a production the trigons normaly block all of that light from the stage. In order to turn on the worklights over the stage you must walk across the stage in the dark to hit the swith. Then you must go down the steps into the house to walk to the back to hit the third and brightest set of worklights and to turn on the house lights. How is that for fun?


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## mr_sound (Jul 21, 2004)

zac850 said:


> yea, it is true. There have been times when a crook breaks into someone's house to steal something, and ends up falling and hurting himself, sued for damages, and won.
> 
> What is this world coming to?



did you ever hear about the guy that shot someone trying to break into his home, paralized the guy from like the waist down, and the theif sued and actually won? now that's crazy. it just proves that, if you're gonna shoot someone for breaking into your home, you better kill him so he can't sue you.


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## 3D (Jul 21, 2004)

some theaters are haunted. i worked in a haunted theater. i think it gives ghosts light to protect the theater at night. 

our school uses one but we only use it after productions or before productions. it gives the actors/actresses security before they go on stage.

3D (Derek D. Deiterman)


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## bluesbabypoet (Aug 31, 2004)

the story ive always heard was that you leave a light on when you leave so the ghosts can perform their own plays...


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## Foxinabox10 (Aug 31, 2004)

What some people had described as "ghosting" can also occur if you switch your board from manual to memory or vice versa with any faders up. All you have to do is switch it back, put the faders down and then switch it to where you want it.

As for the thief stories...A guy broke into someones house and got locked in their garage while they were on vacation, and almost starved to death, and sued the family and won.


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## lighttechie5948 (Feb 8, 2009)

today i fell in my theater's orchestra pit after turning off the lighting dimmers back stage. All of the house lights were off and the ramp that connects the stage to the house was not connected (it folds up so the orchestra can get down to the pit).

Is it actually a law, because I am going to email the executive director to make sure a ghost light procedure is instituted.


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## midgetgreen11 (Feb 8, 2009)

Am I the only one that carries a maglite everytime I enter a theatre for work purposes?


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## willbb123 (Feb 8, 2009)

midgetgreen11 said:


> Am I the only one that carries a maglite everytime I enter a theatre for work purposes?



Whenever I'm working i carry my LED flashlight (does both red and white light), gerber, and a no contact circuit tester.
The backlight on your cellphone can also be very useful. I've got a flashlight app on my iphone that i use alot.


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## JeffClark (Feb 8, 2009)

midgetgreen11 said:


> Am I the only one that carries a maglite everytime I enter a theatre for work purposes?



No, but it sure helps when your building is used for other purposes and a flashlight only goes so far.

People like us who carry lights with them (I always have one in my backpack, along with my pocketknife and multi-tool) aren't the ones we need to worry about. Luckily, we have light switches at every door and up in the booth to turn on the house lights, so we more often than not, are fighting with people to turn the lights OFF.


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## iLightTheStage (Feb 8, 2009)

Any theater that has an open pit should have a ghost light, and, if possible, a rope across the edge of the proscenium when the stage isn't in full use.

The ATD at a theater I used to work at converted an old broken costume steamer into a ghost light. It was kind of handy since it was already on wheels, and he wired it to illuminate the LED on it when power was present, and the switch controlled the light itself.



ricc0luke said:


> I sure wish we had a ghost light...




All it takes is $5-10 for a floor lamp without a shade, and a bulb. Nothing really stopping you from having one.


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## renegadeblack (Feb 8, 2009)

Foxinabox10 said:


> As for the thief stories...A guy broke into someones house and got locked in their garage while they were on vacation, and almost starved to death, and sued the family and won.



I'd like to hear what the people who owned the spaces are said to have done wrong, I also fail to see how someone can get locked in a garage, isn't there always a way to escape unless they have one of those keyed-on-both-sides locks. Ooh, that would be terrible. Even so, what's the family charged with? Keeping their home semi-secure?

As for the ghost light, we always have one around when we're doing productions, except for when we did The Crucible, which could certainly explain some of the problems we had.

As for being able to see the switch, we have them by all but one door leading into the theatre, however, that doesn't mean that they all work :S . 

What I learned the ghost light was for is so that when the ghosts are wandering around, they don't bump into things and get angry. 

And why not cover this bit since it seems to be the right thing to do:
I do have things occasionally ghost, only ever so slightly though, like the good old fashioned dimmer leak from analog systems, except mine's completely digital. In middle school, we used to have an old analog system that seemed to be some sort of custom build, I have no idea what it was and they've since replaced it so don't even ask  but the back row green strip lights always leaked or ghosted a little bit, on the dimmers there was a little screw that you could adjust what seemed almost like gain and that didn't help at all. 

And why not add another bit to this thread:

Do you say goodnight to your theatre before turning off the house lights at the end of the night? I've heard that some people do this, and I tend to when I've been in there all day and it's been nice to me for the day.


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## Esoteric (Feb 8, 2009)

We always had one at the PAC.

When I do installs I always make sure there is a control panel of some kind near the main internal entrance and every usable outdoor entrance.

Mike


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## draco17315 (Feb 9, 2009)

Actually from what I know, when you get "power" to a fixture even though your dimmer is off, this is called Phantom power.......the ghost light comes from superstition to ward off bad juju......as well as so someone doesn't bump into things in the dark, but mostly superstition.....and yes, durring a show, we leave on a ghost light......never hurts to have some good juju on our side


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## Esoteric (Feb 9, 2009)

draco17315 said:


> Actually from what I know, when you get "power" to a fixture even though your dimmer is off, this is called Phantom power.



Unless you are talking to a squeak.

Mike


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## HCP1 (Feb 9, 2009)

Snopes does not believe the burglar trapped in garage story.

snopes.com: Stella Awards

Am writing an equipment list for new PAC. Thanks for reminding me about a ghost light!


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## mark (Feb 9, 2009)

Before the advent of illuminated Exit signs, stair lights etc. old theaters were pretty dark and dangerous. You could fall into an open trap, orchestra pit or everyones favorite, right off the edge of the stage, usually coming from the backstage area to the house to turn the lights on and who had flashlights?


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## gafftapegreenia (Feb 9, 2009)

I'd again like to take this opportunity to remind anyone who might be thinking about getting a proper ghostlight to remember the Behind the Scenes ghostlight, with all proceeds supporting our colleagues. 

http://www.estafoundation.org/bts/Documents/Behind_the_Scenes_Ghostlight_Cutsheet.pdf
ESTA Foundation - Behind the Scenes - About Behind the Scenes, News, Apply for a Grant, Make a Contribution


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## Dionysus (Feb 9, 2009)

Mayhem said:


> The only time I have seen this happen is when the optocoupler controlling the triac failed. As such, the channel remained illuminated despite any attempts to dim it



Ghosting is a common occurrence. There are several things that can cause it.

(many dimmers use two SCRs instead of a triac and diac arrangement)

- Improperly set dimming curve (not quite 0%, when at 0%)
- The filament is still hot after being on for a long time, takes a while for it to cool down enough to completely stop emitting a soft glow of light
- Most dimmers are never entirely off, allowing a small amount of power to always be present (to make the filament respond better, and quicker. Or to allow the dimmer to know if the circuit is actually complete) This can make ghosting more easy to occur.


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## ship (Feb 9, 2009)

quick note is that Altman has a Ghost Light availabe who's proceeds go to charity. 
Sapsis Rigging also I think still offers it on their website as would most theater distributers be able to help with getting this product. Good idea and buy even if not as needed any longer these days in some situations.

On the other hand there is what’s not noted yet - those with the easy switch next to the door that turns on the work lights “thus we don’t need a ghost light...” Those stages no doubt have also had the work lights turn on by mistake during shows. Because of this, fire curtain down or not and or what ever, flash light or not that you have but others might not, a good say even compact fluorescent ghost light is a good thing to have for a proper theater on stage when there is nobody there.


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## derekleffew (Feb 9, 2009)

ship, The ESTA Foundation Behind-the-Scenes Ghostlight was mentioned by gafftapegreenia two posts above yours:

gafftapegreenia said:


> ...http://www.estafoundation.org/bts/Documents/Behind_the_Scenes_Ghostlight_Cutsheet.pdf
> ESTA Foundation - Behind the Scenes - About Behind the Scenes, News, Apply for a Grant, Make a Contribution


I used to agree with you (that every theatre needed a "bulb on a stick" ghostlight) until I read Sean's post: 

Sean said:


> Maybe I'm in the minority, but I hate ghostlights (the bulb-on-a-stand kind). It's just another piece of crap to keep around backstage. ... Yes, more power consumption. But, nobody has to wheel the **** thing out every night (sometimes a problem with raked decks, etc) or find a place in a very cramped backstage to store it. ...


in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/9352-what-kind-ghost-light-do-you-use.html.

To each his own...


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## iLightTheStage (Feb 10, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> I used to agree with you (that every theatre needed a "bulb on a stick" ghostlight) until I read Sean's post:
> in this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/9352-what-kind-ghost-light-do-you-use.html.
> 
> To each his own...



Of all things to find frustration with, the effort of storing a bulb on a stick, and putting it out at night? Really? 

Really??

A little difficult for me to agree with "to each his own" on that one. Sorry.


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## Sony (Feb 10, 2009)

We don't use a Bulb on a stick for our Ghostlight at my college. We have a CFL Flood light fixture permenently mounted on the ceiling with a plug in the booth that we just plug in every night. No "bulb-on-a-stick" here, at MVPAC we have the bulb on a stick but we don't use it, we have the 32 48" flourescent tube worklights above stage wired into 3 seperate circuits, one of those circuits is just three sets of the flourescents (6 tubes) which are wired into the backup generator so they switch to backup power in emergencies. We leave those on 24/7 except when running a show obviously and that is our ghost light. I definitely agree that ghost lights are VERY important.


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## cisgrig (Feb 11, 2009)

Myth aside, it is SAFETY that counts. 
One of our former Ex. Directors was on the set after everyone had left, turned off the ghost light to save a penny, and then walked off the lip. Not hurt, but we dedicated the light to her.


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## derekleffew (Feb 11, 2009)

iLightTheStage said:


> ...Really??...


Read the entirety of Sean's post. He has valid reasons for an alternative.

Where has Sean been lately, anyhow?


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## ship (Feb 13, 2009)

I'm one for tradition. Shut down the dimmers, than the board, shut down the various lights than close the fire curtain. Shut down the various other lights, plug in the ghost light and run it out to center stage. Exit the stage and turn off the last of the various lights. Lock the door.

A shut down prociedure that includes running out the ghost light is not more difficult than any other procedures for leaving the building responsibly. And let me tell you... just because you have a flash light, don't mean it always works when you need it or you will be the one first on stage in needing to use it.

Ghost light, always used one in my past. This not tradition though in part a legal thing.


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