# Comm System Replacement (Funding?)



## Chris Rigby (Jun 28, 2015)

When our theater was built, it was built with a wired comm system. This system has outlets in the floor for headsets to be plugged in, allowing both sides of the stage and the booth to communicate with each other. Unfortunately, this system did not work for more than a year after the opening of the theater. We have since had specialists in to repair it, and they have been unable to. Now, 7 years later, we still have no way to communicate quickly with our booth and other side of the stage, and are becoming very frustrated at this hindrance. Obviously, it is time to find a replacement system. It doesn't need to be fancy, it just needs to work. 

I am looking for two things, suggestions for a cheap, but effective comm system, and suggestions on how to pay for such a system. As we are a high school, our budget doesn't have much wiggle room to allow for extra expenses outside of upkeep and regular show budget. Whether that means fundraising the old fashioned way, finding sponsors or even writing grants, any suggestions would be welcome, even if it's a lot of work.


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## AlexDonkle (Jun 28, 2015)

Can you provide a bit more information on what gear you're currently using, and what issues you're having are? Any information on the wiring of the system may be helpful as well, as if the wiring wasn't installed correctly then a system replacement wouldn't fix the issue. 

There's still plenty of Clear-Com equipment from the 70's and 80's working fine in many theatres, so 7 years is still a relatively recent system.


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## Chris Rigby (Jun 28, 2015)

Unfortunately I do not have the brand or model of the system memorized, but could get it if needed sometime this week. One thing I do know is that the wiring is entirely internal, which is part of the problem. The people we have brought in did conclude that it was a wiring issue, but with the way our theater is built (concrete walls) it's really impractical to access the wiring to repair it. That is why at his point, we are looking to entirely bypass the system with something else, like a wireless comm system.


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## Dionysus (Jun 29, 2015)

Chris Rigby said:


> Unfortunately I do not have the brand or model of the system memorized, but could get it if needed sometime this week. One thing I do know is that the wiring is entirely internal, which is part of the problem. The people we have brought in did conclude that it was a wiring issue, but with the way our theater is built (concrete walls) it's really impractical to access the wiring to repair it. That is why at his point, we are looking to entirely bypass the system with something else, like a wireless comm system.



If it really is concrete than the wires will be in conduit. Should be fairly easy to tie on new wire and pull it in, perhaps who you had in wasn't up to this kind of work?
In this case, concrete walls make things EASIER typically (unless the conduit is messed up). However if you want to change any or add any conduit concrete walls then becomes a nightmare.... I know. Been there, done that.

The trick is finding the Junction Boxes (they SHOULD be labeled).

Really replacing the damaged wire (that SHOULDN'T be damaged) is the only real solution. Wireless will cost MUCH more, and honestly in your space not a good idea in my opinion.


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## rwhealey (Jun 29, 2015)

Chris Rigby said:


> When our theater was built, it was built with a wired comm system. This system has outlets in the floor for headsets to be plugged in, allowing both sides of the stage and the booth to communicate with each other. Unfortunately, this system did not work for more than a year after the opening of the theater. We have since had specialists in to repair it, and they have been unable to. Now, 7 years later, we still have no way to communicate quickly with our booth and other side of the stage, and are becoming very frustrated at this hindrance. Obviously, it is time to find a replacement system. It doesn't need to be fancy, it just needs to work.
> 
> I am looking for two things, suggestions for a cheap, but effective comm system, and suggestions on how to pay for such a system. As we are a high school, our budget doesn't have much wiggle room to allow for extra expenses outside of upkeep and regular show budget. Whether that means fundraising the old fashioned way, finding sponsors or even writing grants, any suggestions would be welcome, even if it's a lot of work.



Is this a Clear-Com system? Do you have access to a multimeter? If so, there are a couple of tests you can perform to see if the wiring is adequate for the system, or if the problem is elsewhere.


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## venuetech (Jun 30, 2015)

Are there switches on the plates perhaps that say A/B? What is worrisome is the "outlets in the floor" are they getting stepped on or crushed?
Have you found and inspected all the access points. Perhaps a crushed or damaged point behind a file cabinet or in the trap room.
It only takes one damaged port to bring the whole system down.


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## Chris Rigby (Jun 30, 2015)

venuetech said:


> Are there switches on the plates perhaps that say A/B? What is worrisome is the "outlets in the floor" are they getting stepped on or crushed?
> Have you found and inspected all the access points.


Sorry. I should have clarified that the outlets are in the wall, probably 4 or 5 from the ground. There still is a chance of them being damaged through. I will check.


rwhealey said:


> Is this a Clear-Com system? Do you have access to a multimeter? If so, there are a couple of tests you can perform to see if the wiring is adequate for the system, or if the problem is elsewhere.


I do have access to a multimeter, and would love any suggestions on testing it. It is not a clear-com system though. As to what it actually is, I'm not sure. However, I will find out when I'm in the theater today or tomorrow.

Thanks for all the suggestions. As the original post suggested, I would also love any recommendations on how to acquire funding to help with the expenses that are going to be required for whatever ends up being decided.


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## Dionysus (Jun 30, 2015)

Chris Rigby said:


> Sorry. I should have clarified that the outlets are in the wall, probably 4 or 5 from the ground. There still is a chance of them being damaged through. I will check.
> 
> 
> I do have access to a multimeter, and would love any suggestions on testing it. It is not a clear-com system though. As to what it actually is, I'm not sure. However, I will find out when I'm in the theater today or tomorrow.
> ...



Funding is a tricky thing. The typically best form of funding for projects like this I find is either fund-raising or finding a donor (ie someone who needs a tax break), however there are of course municipal funds, school board capital expenditures, and of course grants (private and government). The Grants are the hardest and require research and "evil" applications (no simple task), municipal funding is great if you can manage it (talk to your municipality), but as you are in a school setting I'd say its time to hit up the school board. Some people here would have more experience with dealing with American school boards (there are a lot of techs in schools here), however from my experience schoolboards often have money set aside for things like facility "capital expense" that can be earmarked for things like this. Faulty wiring, as it is a part of the building could fall into this easily.
With all of these (save fundraising) you'd be best to talk to your teacher advisers, principal, etc..

Perhaps have a different contractor (school board approved) look at the com system, perhaps even an electrician (though not just any electrician I admit).

really when it comes down to it, the theatre belongs to the school board, they should be the ones to deal with fixing its wiring, not a student.

But good on you for actually wanting to get this fixed, sometimes you have to make a little noise but more importantly do the research and ground work to get things going.
We would be happy to help in any way we can (which is rather limited I admit)...

As for testing the connections, try a simple connectivity test at first I think. At least this way you have a starting point. Was there a report from the last time someone "looked at fixing it"?

Connectivity test, check pin-to-pin, every combination first (with no devices plugged in). If your meter shows connectivity, than something is shorted.
Assuming there is no short you'd have to check every conductor in the system to see if there is a break, and where. This can of course be tedious, I assume a 3-pin system (clear-com or Production Intercom, Pro Intercom)? Through system of elimination you should be able to find the problem. If it is not a clean break than this will be more tricky, but a clean break is most common to cause complete failure. Someone can give more exacting instructions if you require them.
Check every outlet, even physically open them up and have a visual inspection.

Assuming you find a problem, than there you go! If not, you've found a "can of worms".


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## venuetech (Jun 30, 2015)

The clear com In my place have a A/B channel select switch some times that gets bumped and damaged then nothing works.
Find the base station ( likely in the audio rack) and disconnect every thing from that then try just a base to com connection to see if you can get just two headsets working using temporary cable.


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## MeasureThrice (Jul 2, 2015)

Sometimes the solution is easier than you might think. Try swapping out the XLR cables running from the pack to the port. It sounds simple, but I recently dove into investigating why the house right spotlight station "never" worked properly. They could hear and the call button would light, but the voice from that station never reached anyone else. Pulled the face plates off of the terminals and, though I found some creative wiring (see * below) nothing seemed to be out of sorts. I cleaned up for the night and went home. Came back the next morning and mindlessly grabbed a different cable to start anew, and just like that...all was fixed. That station had been that way for _at least_ 10 years so when I was told that it had _NEVER_ worked, I guess I assumed that someone had tried that.

* Now, what I found when I opened up the terminals was another story. Despite having a 2-channel master station and switchable A/B plates, whoever installed the system wired them as one channel. In the booth is box with two ports labeled "Channel A" and "Channel B", however, both ports are connected to a single cable so there is only 1 channel available throughout the building. I think it took more work to solder all of the connections to create a single channel system than it would have to just pull a second line. I guess it explains why the switches at the stations never do anything...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 3, 2015)

The real trick for this one is that you need to be talking to a telephony guy. 

Get a telephone repair tone generator/tracer set, and pick one circuit. Apply tone, and then trace it through the walls with the toner and you'll be able to figure out where it goes, and whether it shorts out somewhere, or goes open.

The odds are generally good that all the cabling goes mostly the same places, and at least that way you know what you're trying to apply your multimeter *too*.

This is, as someone alluded to above, pretty much first-year stuff; I would not be inclined to accept "Well, we just can't figure it out" as an answer, if I were you.


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