# I need help with a safety solution here.



## Nimick (Jul 15, 2010)

These are the front lighting positions for an outdoor venue I've lit for the past few years.

I'm looking for a way to provide some minimal fall arrest precautions for whoever has to climb these things. It's a volunteer outfit and I'm getting sick of risking my neck for free. I'm certainly not going to ask anyone else to.

Here's the problem (AKA why nothing's already been done):

The biggest problem area (besides the improper ladder use) is the climb up the rungs on the pole. once you get in the basket, the railing is more than sufficient to keep one from falling out.

Getting into the basket takes some worming. There is certainly solid footing on the upper rungs, one is unlikely to fall while trying to get in the basket. However, wearing a standard harness and lanyard, it is very easy to get hung up and trapped (I've tried).

Any safety solution has to be strike-able from the ground. We cannot secure the towers any other way than to remove the ladders to make them inaccessible. they are in a public park and there is a lot of copper in those cable runs, which get dragged up and live in the baskets when not in use. We used to leave them looped around the bottom rungs, only to have half of them stolen.

The only thing I've been able to think of is a Genie. which is not feasible budget-wise.

putting chains at the levels of the rungs to tie on to A) gives you another thing to catch your feet on B) triples the time it takes to climb and C) leaves one with only two points of contact for brief periods.


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## irish79 (Jul 16, 2010)

Have you looked into retractable fall arrests?


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## avkid (Jul 16, 2010)

You NEED a life line in that situation.
Either a retractable unit or a fixed line with a trailing grab.
The fixed line would be synthetic rope or steel cable.


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## shiben (Jul 16, 2010)

In this case, I would think a fixed steel cable would be your best bet. That way, it wont get nearly as affected by the elements.


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## Dover (Jul 16, 2010)

It has been said before and I am sure it is not the answer you want to hear, but you will need a professional to asses and install a fall arrest system. The liability with installing such a system is HUGE. Your good intentions do not matter if the systems fails, it will still be you getting sued. Now there is nothing wrong with buying your own harness and clipping your self in, just do not install a system that some one else can use. As far as an alternate means of risk mitigation a ladder cage might do the job.

Dover


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## rsmentele (Jul 16, 2010)

Another solution may be to use a method commonly used in rock climbing and have an affixed anchor at the top of the pole, and use a climbing rope and proper harnesses and have someone 'belay' for you from a fixed ground position, retracting the rope as you climb or releasing it while you decend. However; you need to make sure to have all of the proper equipment, and have trained individuals using the ropes. 

But a retractable unit might work also, just make sure when you are done with the unit and have decended the pole, make sure to lock it or affix it at the bottom so that it cannot be released back to the top.

Just my thought...


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## kendal69 (Jul 16, 2010)

Two phrases that never ever go together when it comes to safety is " we can't afford". The minute I hear that or the minute safety gear is not present the next thing they see is the back of my head walking out. 

Absolutely NOTHING in big capital letters is worth any ones safety. NOTHING!!!!. You can't replace a life, or a life time in a wheel chair. No amount of money or excuse is worth it. 

Either they provide safety gear or you provide safety gear and they provide a lift. 

We do events where I put in the contract that a Ambulance with two paramedics MUST BE on scene the entire time. Sure I lose business because of that clause but one client that gave me the hardest time about that clause came up and hugged me when one of her guests broke a leg during the "games".

There is only one person looking out for you and that's YOU. Never compromise safety for ignorance or money.


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## Nimick (Jul 20, 2010)

Dover said:


> It has been said before and I am sure it is not the answer you want to hear, but you will need a professional to asses and install a fall arrest system. The liability with installing such a system is HUGE. Your good intentions do not matter if the systems fails, it will still be you getting sued. Now there is nothing wrong with buying your own harness and clipping your self in, just do not install a system that some one else can use. As far as an alternate means of risk mitigation a ladder cage might do the job.
> 
> Dover


 
This makes no sense.

either we install something, and it fails, and the organization gets screwed OR we do nothing, and someone falls, and the organization gets screwed. 

actually it's the parks department that's going to get screwed, they're their trees. any fall arrest equipment would only be used by my group's electrician (right now, that's me).

getting in the basket in a harness in nearly impossible. I like the cage idea though, not sure it would work with the baskets' current configuration.


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## Dover (Jul 21, 2010)

Then let me clarify my intent.
I was not referring to the organization, I was referring to you in a personal sense. Your original post gave me the impression that you were looking to install some kind of fall arrest on your own, independent from the parks department. If you have official backing that changes things some what. Is the the area accessible to a bucket truck, if so could you barrow one from the city for the time needed?

Dover


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## JBrennan (Jul 21, 2010)

Something like this I believe is what rsmentele and others were talking about,

Sapsis Rigging Inc.: ProPlus Self Retracting Lifeline 25' 

I don't see how you can get around wearing a harness if you need fall arrest and can't use a lift or cherry picker. Looks worth it to me, and ditto to Kendal69, the only person making sure you come to work the next day is yourself.


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## gafftaper (Jul 22, 2010)

You have two options:
1) Figure out something that works for you. You buy it yourself, you get trained, and only use it for yourself. If you die, your family still sues the city but they have less liability because their lawyers will say you were using an unauthorized fall system. 
2) Get the city to hire a professional to consult on a proper OSHA approved safety system, install it, and train the crew to use it. 

My vote is tell them I'm no longer willing to risk my life for something that is illegal by OSHA standards. Either get it fixed or find someone else dumb enough to do the gig. The note on your resume that you did this gig is not important enough to risk your life over. 


kendal69 said:


> Two phrases that never ever go together when it comes to safety is " we can't afford". The minute I hear that or the minute safety gear is not present the next thing they see is the back of my head walking out.
> 
> Absolutely NOTHING in big capital letters is worth any ones safety. NOTHING!!!!. You can't replace a life, or a life time in a wheel chair. No amount of money or excuse is worth it.
> 
> ...


 
Three cheers for the relatively new guy! Gaff likes Kendal!


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## Chris15 (Aug 1, 2010)

I personally could not think of anything worst than a half cocked fall arrest system. I either want to sustain minor injuries only or be dead. Seriously. I can't think of anything worse than being seriously injured and stuck in a wheelchair for the rest of my life or similarly disabled which I would consider a very real risk in an improvised system that failed...


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