# Never let a school design a theater



## Edrick

well if you've read my hello thread, as you know I'm the technical director for our schools brand new theater, the whole school is brand new.

Well to list a few things they screwed up big time on,

Stage Flooring: The school board desided they needed the front of the stage with a finished wood floor (waxed ect...) Not such a big deal since the red curtain cuts the black stage off when closed for regular events but for theater events it doesn't look too good.

Well so the black part that's suppose to be marley "spelling", is just regular wood with black paint over it, thus alls you can see is cracks as it's in no ways close together big gaps in it and the paint is chipping off. It scratches easy as hell so that's all you can see is imprints from things that were on stage. 

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Communications- wired com system how ever no com hookups on stage, none by rigging, non up back, and none on the other side. No communication to back stage (chorus and band room), and No Wireless System.

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Back Stage Preview- A must for the plays, the wiring was cut out of the budget.

Alright so now the last part of your training I really don't want to say what this is, but I have too. This is the amp for your back stage preview system which they cut the wiring out of the budget.

we have the amp and the big speakers sitting in the storage closet but no way to connect it into the system.

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Projector System- The whole place is wired for a projector system front stage hookups, in floor hookups around the theater, a whole A/v setup in the front rack so the principle can just come in and play a video, and even the wiring was run. But they cut the projector out of the budget.

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The stage- In part with the wrong stage flooring put in, the waxed part is warping and it's un even, the front lip trim has snapped due to stress of being put in uneven and the front brown partical board part is chipping. 

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The lighting system, the company abandoned us said they came out a year ago when no one was even in the school as it hadn't been turned over to the city yet. thus they were not obligated to train us on the system.

4,000 Software system (WYSIWYG) useless to us, they tried installing it on a FAT32 Formmated system (which if you read the manual it says it WILL NOT work on) and they just gave up. We had to fix it our self and find a company to train us on it. 

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## Chris15

Hey, be thankful for the fact that you at least have a theatre. Many of us don't.

Now your projection doesn't sound like a problem to me. You have complained, with a reasonable amount of justification, about the lack of wiring for various other things. So consider that the wiring for the projectors is there. So when you can afford them, installation should be nice and easy.


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## jmabray

You didn't mention where you were located. Can you?


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## Edrick

the problem is the school will never actually buy it. It's a Public school after all. we're cutting the budget by 1.25 Million because we've built too many new schools 4 elementry and 1 70 million dollar highschool. 

Also there's a slight chance that where the projector was suppose to go they put a camera there in replacement and just re fished the wiring. 

I'm located in Woburn, MA


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## fosstech

We had a similar problem when my high school's theatre was renovated. Brand new sound system, brand new digital console, no mic wiring to/from the stage. Cut by some incompetent bean-counter in the district's administration. We brought the issue up to the school's administrators who wholeheartedly agreed with us. They forced the school district to install the appropriate cabling


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## Edrick

We haven't gone to the school board as we have to go through the "proper channels" which gets us no where so we might end up doing that. I know all the people anyways it's just a matter of going and bringing it up. We do have a major event here tonight with the people from the state and city about the i95 Highway change or something it's a community event but the big shots have to be here. 

Oh ****... the projector broke you can't do your presentation guess we shouldn't have cut it from the budget 

I wish it was that simple.


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## tenor_singer

I think that schools are in a catch 22. If they spend beyond their budget... the public gets mad and voices their anger by voting "no" for future levies. If they make the necessary cuts to stay on budget, the public gets mad and voices their anger by voting "no" for future levies. What are they to do? 

The school didn't design the school. Yes... they made some decisions about the design because they are seeing the grand picture and not just your specific area (like the stage being used for things other than theater or like purchasing better, longer lasting desks instead of projecters). To be honest, they probably farmed all design processes out to some architectural firm who then designed the building. The school didn't construct the school. They probably hired a general construction firm that subcontracted the wiring, flooring, painting, etc... out to other specialists in the field. 

Everything you mentioned is an issue with installation or design. Your issues should be with the companies who did the shoddy work and hopefully your school has held back payment until their punch cards are finished. As far as the budget cuts... would your school's community support further funds by increasing the initial levy amount? If yes... go for more. If no (which will probably be the case), at least you now have fundraising motivation.

Enjoy your new space. After all, as bad as you think it is... it is a far cry better than the crap that many other schools out there deal with (like my friend's school that has to build their stage in the gymnasium the weekend prior to their performance).


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## Edrick

The contractor that built the school went bankrupt we were their last building according to the building manager. there's probably more behind that story, we have a case of they hired the cheapest contractor, who didn't think and thus we're screwed over in some areas. The building manager who's incharge of contacting the companies gave us the "you want to see my report of all the other problems in the school", More important items such as the sports areas  again.

I've been waiting for 3 days to get the holes in the control room table put in so I can run the power and sound cables through them instead of infront of the table like they've been for the past 7 Months.


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## Chris15

tenor_singer said:


> (like my friend's school that has to build their stage in the gymnasium the weekend prior to their performance).



I think I can go one better. Same sort of setup. But I ha to pull down everything - the stage, the set, the lighting stands, the chairs, etc. after one show, stack it all to the side before I went home so they could have an exam in the hall the next day. Exam finishes and I have to set the whole thing back up again for the second show that night... Luckily everyone pitched in to make it happen, but boy I don't want to repeat that any time soon.


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## PhantomD

Never let a school do anything is my rule.


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## astrotechie

Rickblu said:


> We haven't gone to the school board as we have to go through the "proper channels" which gets us no where so we might end up doing that. I know all the people anyways it's just a matter of going and bringing it up. We do have a major event here tonight with the people from the state and city about the i95 Highway change or something it's a community event but the big shots have to be here.


_
The only problem that we will run into if we don't go through proper channels is that we get kicked off and the school never listens to us again. But the big shots have no clue what is going on at the hs and the school officals are masking the truth._


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## gafftaper

Just want to throw in here that it's as much a problem with architects as it is the school it self. Our new campus black box was absolutely crazy when I first got involved. They were going to build an approximately 75 foot square building and that was it, no shop, no green room, no dressing rooms, nothing. Just a big square black box. We fortunately were able to get a theater consultant to work on the project with the architect and that all changed. Over night the project turned into a real theater... with all kinds of cool little extras like a sprung floor, a shop with a giant roll up door and covered loading dock, and even a small line set system so we can raise and lower a few simple scenic elements. Even with the theater consultant I still had to fight to get a wood floor in most of the scene shop. 

Anyway, the lesson learned is that if you work for an institution who is going to build a theater you MUST get a theater consultant to work with the architect if you want the place done right.


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## TimMiller

I remember back at my hs. They got the school remodeled. And we were going to get all new equipment along with a new blackbox with a wench system. Well... what we got was a black box and a portable dimmer system (luckally back in hs i knew how to tie in power not sure what they are doing now). Still all the same old dimmers and we thankfully had an ETC 48/96. But they had to scrap for money to buy paint and such. I also learned that scoops make great cyc lights LOL. I was working at one school in which the school electrician hooked up the dimmer. So nothing was in order and things were hard twofered and threefered and they werent even mirrored. One show i was doing there we kept popping breakers and i kept resetting them until the last show the dimmer rack caught on fire. That made for a great grand fanalie.


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## Eboy87

I guess that defines the term "going out with a bang!"


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## Van

TimMiller said:


> ..........with a new blackbox with a wench system. ......


 
Now that's exactly what I need, a new Wench system!
Is that from Sapsis? or Iwiess ? 
  
Welcome Aboard Tim, sorry I couldn't resist.


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## gafftaper

Van said:


> Now that's exactly what I need, a new Wench system!
> Is that from Sapsis? or Iwiess ?
> 
> Welcome Aboard Tim, sorry I couldn't resist.



Hey I've got a Wench system, just don't tell my wife about it.


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## Eboy87

Van said:


> Now that's exactly what I need, a new Wench system!
> Is that from Sapsis? or Iwiess ?
> 
> Welcome Aboard Tim, sorry I couldn't resist.



*Insert rimshot here*


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## MHSTech

astrotechie said:


> _
> The only problem that we will run into if we don't go through proper channels is that we get kicked off and the school never listens to us again. But the big shots have no clue what is going on at the hs and the school officals are masking the truth._


Ha, what else is new?

Maybe you've already done it, but check to bid specs for the project and make sure everything was followed exactly and that you got everything you were supposed to. I'm not sure how this applies if the company went bankrupt, but if they didn't finish the project according to specs, the school is not obligated to pay them. At least that is my understanding of how it works.

Your venue sounds like a typical new public school venue. We got screwed out of a lot of good things too due to state constraints and budget cuts in the project (also mainly from the state). Actually, they came in during the middle of the build and saw the way we worked our bids and what we had and told us "You have too nice of a building," next thing that happened was some of our funding from the state got cut.


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## gafftaper

TimMiller said:


> we were going to get all new equipment along with a new blackbox with a wench system.



Hey they don't like to be called Wenches any more... I believe the preferred term is "Dames" or "Babes". 

Sorry I was on Jury duty today and spent the whole day thinking about punch lines and just had to post one more.


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## Chris15

gafftaper said:


> Hey they don't like to be called Wenches any more... I believe the preferred term is "Dames" or "Babes".



Do I want to know how you see them working as a system?


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## Van

I beleive Chris refers to them as "Sheilas". It's an Antipodean thing.


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## Chris15

Van said:


> I beleive Chris refers to them as "Sheilas". It's an Antipodean thing.



Funny, I believe the same thing. And Van's spell checker must be turned off... beleive... i before e, except after c... (We really are SO off topic now aren't we...)


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## Van

Chris15 said:


> Funny, I believe the same thing. And Van's spell checker must be turned off... beleive... i before e, except after c... (We really are SO off topic now aren't we...)


 
I before e ? no that must only be down there. Here in the states we just put in there however we want and call it creativity! 

< yeah Waaaaay off topic but it's a nice change from the bitching huh ? >


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## Chris15

Wait, what was I thinking... is not the American way to change the rules to suit one's self? Or is that just the way it comes across down here? So I was working off the old rule. My mistake.


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## gafftaper

Chris15 said:


> Do I want to know how you see them working as a system?


Trust me, wenches work GREAT as a system!!


Chris15 said:


> Wait, what was I thinking... is not the American way to change the rules to suit one's self? Or is that just the way it comes across down here? So I was working off the old rule. My mistake.



We don't change the rules we either ignore them, make up new rules to redefine the old rules, or send two destroyers into the Gulf of Tonkin to get rocks thrown at them by a couple of fisherman so we no longer need the rules. 

Whoooosh... that's the sound of a joke going over 90% of the heads that read this thread. If you were in a history class I teach you would get it. 

I now return you to our regular topic "Schools don't know squat about theaters"...


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## fredthe

MHSTech said:


> ... but check to bid specs for the project and make sure everything was followed exactly and that you got everything you were supposed to.


If you can get them...

A local HS is almost done with a major renovation, the TD and I looked over the plans and gave lots of comments during the initial planning; but it was about 4 months into construction before we got copies of the bid specs... it's like they didn't want anyone who knew what they were looking at to have them .

In general, it's not turning out to badly... there were a few things that got missed (like the DMX lines to the FOH lighting catwalks)... It's going to take all summer to get the small details fixed up. But they did implement quite a few of our suggestions, such as empty conduit runs from the booth to the catwalks, and a reasonable distribution of dimmer circuits. (It would have been better, but we only had about a day to review the plans, not enough time to catch everything.)

There were some annoying "budget cut" items, though. They cut all the lighting cables and 2-fers. The head of construction claimed that there should always be an outlet where you need one. Of course, with the cyc lightes, mounted in groups of 3, only 2 of the 3 will reach an outlet (We're teaching the students how to build extention cables....)

They also cut all the mics and mic cables . They did provide a nice wired intercom system, with lots of beltpacks. Of course, since they cut all the mic cables, we have no way of plugging them in 

It's amazing what the beancounters can do to mess things up.


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## Edrick

that's what we need are some dmx hook ups on the catwalk.


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## fredthe

Rickblu said:


> that's what we need are some dmx hook ups on the catwalk.


In our case, the catwalks double as the FOH lighting positions... so if we want to use the scrollers (that amazingly didn't get cut) there, we need the DMX. (They did cut the moving lights, but we expected that.)

The theater consultant knew about it, and even ahowed the conduit runs on his drawing... but didn't specify what was in the conduit. Since there was nothing there, the electricians didn't install the conduit.


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## Edrick

we've got plenty of empty conduit that leads to who knows where and lots of conduit with pull strings but no wire that was put in. not all conduit has pull string. we pulled of a big 5 port blank faceplate on stage by our sound rack only to find nothing in it.


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## fredthe

Sounds like it's time to get a fish tape, and start finding out where all the conduit runs too... you aren't doing anything else this summer, are you


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## Edrick

bawwhahahha i'm gone after this year. I've got 29 more days and someone else gets to take over my job. 

good luck to them! I've had this one annoying kid constantly asking me questions about why stuff is done the way it is and why don't we have this or that and he's like why don't you just put a hole in the wall and run a dmx cable. 

I now just say, that's such a stupid idea. Do it in 30 days when i'm out of here and it's someone elses responsibility for when you break something.


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## Van

Rickblu said:


> bawwhahahha i'm gone after this year. I've got 29 more days and someone else gets to take over my job.
> 
> good luck to them! I've had this one annoying kid constantly asking me questions about why stuff is done the way it is and why don't we have this or that and he's like why don't you just put a hole in the wall and run a dmx cable.
> 
> I now just say, that's such a stupid idea. Do it in 30 days when i'm out of here and it's someone elses responsibility for when you break something.


 

Wait a **** minute! you started a thread titled "What I fear" talking about how you're the sh*t at your school. How you're afraid there won't be anybody there to run the place when you're gone. You have a kid there who wants to learn and has ideas, to which you respond " That's such a stupid idea." THat's great ! 


Wait let me guess You'll respond saying I completely misunderstood what you just posted, That you really don't treat him badly.

Get Over Yourself Please. 
One consructive post.
One positive comment. 
One thread that doesn't involve bitching about a multi-million dollar facility that most kids in America would go gaga over when they get to produce shows in their Cafe-toriums. 

Done.


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## Edrick

you need to calm down. this kid isn't one of the kids i want to train on how to run stuff. Where did i say it was one of those people. 

He's not one of the people that want's to learn he's one of those people that were BANNED from the facility for half of the year due to doing exactly what I told him to wait 30 days. He went and re-wired the lighting system at one of the middle schools didn't care to tell anyone, and left after the event leaving them screwed. 

This is one of those kids that no matter how many times you explain why something is the way it is, or that you don't know why it's that way as you're not the contractor will continue to bug you about the issue and tell you how he thinks it should be done.

this is one of those kids that when you're trying to run something or work something out with another person will go and talk to that person behind your back to be nosey and confuse the hell out of the person causing more head aches for me and the person.

I have no problem teaching people or trying to figure out ways to keep the technical program running, i wan't to do it but it's people like him that make me think, thank god i'm out of here soon. 

I've had plenty of threads that don't involve complaining about the facility. Read the origional start date and you'll notice that this is a thread from what a week? two weeks ago? that has been continued on. I've made plenty of constructive posts, and positive comments. 

It's like when people hear complaints about companies, you hear so "many" complaints but the good out number the complaints. You're taking everything I say and saying it's all negative when it's really not. 

and quite simply yes, it is a stupid idea to go and drill a hole in a finished wall and another hole and another and run a 200+ foot dmx cable in a facility that he DOES NOT have permission to do such a thing in, and you know? after explaining to him in a nice way that it's not a good idea, and you'll get introuble he continues to try to convince me and say he's going to do it.


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## Edrick

Van said:


> Wait a **** minute! you started a thread titled "What I fear" talking about how you're the sh*t at your school. How you're afraid there won't be anybody there to run the place when you're gone. You have a kid there who wants to learn and has ideas, to which you respond " That's such a stupid idea." THat's great !
> Wait let me guess You'll respond saying I completely misunderstood what you just posted, That you really don't treat him badly.
> Get Over Yourself Please.
> One consructive post.
> One positive comment.
> One thread that doesn't involve bitching about a multi-million dollar facility that most kids in America would go gaga over when they get to produce shows in their Cafe-toriums.
> Done.



and further more i never started a thread about how i'm the "crap" at the school. that was a response about people not having respect for the tech crew. So how about we stop generalizing and throwing everyting together to fit your side of the argument and think before posting. You've been nothing but negative since I first joined these forums unlike most everyone else.

and incase i haven't made my point clear enough, let me just state that after i already talked to the building manager, and the carpentry teacher about putting holes in the table he then had to get involved in that and ask me every single day for a week atleast 2 times a day, and call me at home asking about the holes. After telling him it was all set and the building manager was going to do it multiple times he kept insisting on bringing in a whole setup of tools to drill the holes him self, note: it was already taken care of and the manager was going to do it. 

he further then goes and talks to the carpentry teacher about it annoying him about it, and then brings in a whole dolly full of tools and stores them in the control booth with hole bits, where he has already filled up with 3 fog machines (fire code) a strobe light and a disco ball we had never asked for. Then insisting we should set off the fog machines (which would set off the fire alarm system)

and since it's 3 AM and i'm sure we're both just a bit cranky, he has called my house phone 15 times today, and my cell phone 20 times, not exaggerating asking about an event i'm doing tomorrow. which honestly i don't want him at for those exact reasons. but ignoring the phone call doesn't work as you can see.

and if you're still reading which i doubt you are, the bahwawa im out of here response was to the previous responder asking if i was doing anything this summer about figuring out where the conduit goes.


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## Eboy87

I don't want to step on people's toes here, but you have jsut attacked a respected member of this board. I see where you both are coming from. Rickblu, we've all been there at some point, and I've had to deal with my fair share of people like that (actors and techies alike). But I can see the point Van makes. On the surface, it does seem like your posts are shallow and bitchy. I'm not saying that to be hostile, just an honest thrid party looking at both sides. Unfortunatley, that's the way the world is. Like I said, I've had to deal with my share of people like that, and I refer to those annoying people who aren't high school students, but rather the ones who work in the professional world. You just have to take it in stride, and keep your sense of humor.

I do hope you get things worked out before you leave. I know when I left, our audio techs, whom I took the time to painstakingly train, left the crew high and dry. And I'm sorry if I've just inflammed the situation, it wasn't my intent to do so. I just sometimes tend to be a little more blunt about my opinions than may be best for me. Anyway, carry on.


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## soundlight

Eboy87 said:


> I don't want to step on people's toes here, but you have jsut attacked a respected member of this board. I see where you both are coming from. Rickblu, we've all been there at some point, and I've had to deal with my fair share of people like that (actors and techies alike). But I can see the point Van makes. On the surface, it does seem like your posts are shallow and bitchy. I'm not saying that to be hostile, just an honest thrid party looking at both sides. Unfortunatley, that's the way the world is. Like I said, I've had to deal with my share of people like that, and I refer to those annoying people who aren't high school students, but rather the ones who work in the professional world. You just have to take it in stride, and keep your sense of humor.
> 
> I do hope you get things worked out before you leave. I know when I left, our audio techs, whom I took the time to painstakingly train, left the crew high and dry. And I'm sorry if I've just inflammed the situation, it wasn't my intent to do so. I just sometimes tend to be a little more blunt about my opinions than may be best for me. Anyway, carry on.



My thoughts exactly.


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## Edrick

I understand that he's a respected member of the board i can tell that and i have nothing personally wrong with him, but he has seemed to have a negative attitude towards me from the second i posted a hello post. now had i have said i was 40 and not a highschool student i'm sure he would have treated me quite differently. I'm not trying to piss anyone off but if someone's going to come at me and say wait a **** minute or what not among other things that he's said to me do you want me to come off as all cheery? 

and if you could tell me some examples where i've come off as an ass (obviously asside from above) let me know so i can see why i was coming off that way. My discussion in the "punching bag" is meant for people to complain about a rehersal and what not gone wrong.

As van pointed out we have a great facility, but there are many problems with it that just werent thought out. It's not like i've gone and posted 15 new topics of me complaining. I've posted maybe 3 directly relating to that, being this one, the rehersal complaint, and one other. That have just continued on. 

Yes there are major problems we don't have the right staff for drama productions is the point i was trying to make, Our drama director although a great person can't be dedicated to drama she's an english teacher and parents. She's too nice and wont lay down her final ruling thus she changes between what everyone wants and wont deal with people who do nothing. The music director had to get rid of the king lead because he wasn't showing up, he could do that call as he's the music director. But he can't dump the stage manager (or lack there of) because that falls under her, he's agreed she shouldn't be stage manager but there's only so much he can do. He's under extraordinary stress with all different stuff. 

The kid that I got annoyed with, continues to cause nothing but problems. I walked in today and he ran a network cable out the booth window down the wall across the floor and was going to plug it into the schools network even after i told him know. I got home today around 5 fell asleep around 7 and he kept constantly calling me, he doesn't get that if i don't answer the 1st time i wont answer the 15th time he calls. 


But i'd like to say sorry to van and other people as i'm sure i haven't been in the best mood. Normally i'm quite nice and i'm one of the people you'll see get annoyed the least. But after dealing with this kid non stop for a month now plus the production being two weeks away and the theater not being completed correctly and things not being done till months of being ontop of people. I come off that way, but after the productions over with I'll be in a lot better mood. 

I had to ask the building manager for 4 days to put the U clamps on the end of our stage monitor cables so i could properly hook them into the rack, i have no problem doing it but he kept saying he would do it. When someone tells you they'll do it 3 times a day for 4 days you start to get annoyed. This kind of stuff should have been done. But it wasn't we cant communicate with people properly in the theater, things weren't setup, we were given no info about the lighting ect... as you probably already know. 

When I "attacked" van i had just gotten back from the event i was doing where none other than that kid decided to show up at the ice rink with fog machines and all sorts of stuff and did nothing but get in the way and mess with stuff and piss everyone else off and then they go and complain to me. So it hasn't been a good few weeks.

In terms of coming off as shallow if you're refering to my post previosly about the tech team and "popular" and "unpopular" vs good looking and not. I don't mean that in a way to come off as shallow. The whole background behind that is another story in it's self, where I had to deal with "un popular" people and "popular" where I try and fall in the middle. I don't mind anyone I try my best to get along with everyone and that's where we ran into problems. They refered to them selfs as unpopular and pulled their own little tech revolt and told me i should get rid of the other people cause they're popular. 

My point about that was that where we're at now we're in the middle, we have what you would consider popular people they get along with people and what not and then we have people who won't get along with people except their group. What I don't want to see happen is a bunch of the people to take over next year and end up with a bunch of people who are considered your sterotypical av people that wont talk to anyone in the school and give them a bad name. I'm trying to make it so our tech program interests all sorts of people and they actually work with the school and people, and everyone gets along. Which again as I'm sure you all know in highschool that's not a easy task.


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## soundlight

As a general rule, I restrain myself from commenting after I get back from a really bad event, lousy rig, or shitty day at work and wait a bit to vent until I'm not about to explode. Just a thought, as it seems to work for me.


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## Van

Eboy, Soundlight, I appreiciate your comments. _< although "Notorious" might be a better description than "respected">_

Rick, I try very hard not to do what I did the other day. I may have come off a bit harsher than I wanted to. My hope is that in what I did say, you can find a bit < small miniscule iota tad> of wisdom in it. I simpathsize with your situation, beleive me I've have worked in multi-million dollar facilities that run for crap and crap-holes that run like clockwork. I think if you look back at some of my responses to your posts I've been attempting to shove a bit of levity down your throat. There's a point at which you've gotta step back and laugh your ass off at the situations we get ourselves into as technicians, and you're too young to burn out yet! You're not allowed a major burnout 'till your sophmore year at college, preferably during midterms when you run out of the theatre screaming, 'That's I can't take this s**t, I F***ing Quit!". Then you come back the next day and and everyone hugs you. 
One thing you'll find out about me, < i'm pretty easy to figure out actually> I lay it all out there. Age means nothing to me. Expirience and knowledge, or more often than not Knowledge tempered by Expirience means everything. Do I think you have neither? No. You obviously have Knowledge. You are obvioulsy gaining expirience, from your expiriences decribed here you're gaing some of the best kind of expirience, that which comes "under fire". Hell I'd let a 15 year old design a set for me if he had good ideas and creativity AND a willingness continue learning. Your original posts on here gave me the impression of a kid with a HUGE chip on his shoulder, I can never ignore those. I've found many a good stagehand, electrician, carpenter and stage manager under those chips. Unfortunately it's possible my aim was off and I caught you square in the jaw. Was I harsh? Yeah, probably, but I felt I had to break in in a cycle that was quickly spiralling downwards. There will always be rough situations that's why I posted what I did in the other thread;
" 

_

*Re: Stupid people* _
_Quote:_
_Originally Posted by *hans44* __
_
_.........In a musical, the cast acknowledges the pit orchestra. Why can't they also acknowledge the tech department in a play?_

_The pit orchestra and actors are are performing arts what we do as technicians is not the best compliment you can evr get is for someone to wonder how something happened. If you can't handle doing your job for a paycheck, and a nice warm feeling that nobody else ever notices, Get out of the business now! You will be miserable for the rest of your life if you expect people to recognize you for your efforts behind the scenes. Thats why it's called "Behind" the scenes._
____________________
_Van J. McQueen_
_Technical Director_
_Artists Repertory Theatre_




Now, it's possible that you felt I was attacking you personally when I said," get out of the business now" I can understand that. the intention was to let everyone in that thread know that," Hey that's tyhe way it is" 
It wasn't personally directed at you, but more that chip sitting there. 
As far as my comment on Negativity, let me just say, hopefully without sounding too PollyAnna-ish, kind of pissing and moaning in that thread, while understandable in the moment, tends to feed on itself. It spreads and can wind up dragging a ton of people in into it like a blackhole of dispair. It's kinda like that "scar scene" in the movie Jaws, everybody keeps adding and adding and pretty soon your'e pissed off at the world and everybody in it. On the internet it's even worse as people tend to express themselves on-line in much harsher terms than they do in real life. I'd hate to see a bunch of the kids here < "kids" isn't pejorative in this sentance I call everybody who works for me "kids" it the teacher in me yearning to be set free> dragged down into that kind of, "everybody hates the Techs" mentality, which, IMHO < and several others as well> is exactly where that thread was headed. 
As far as I'm concerned I have nothing to prove here, neither do you. I just try and offer help, a little levity, the occasional pearl of wisdom. If in that proces some people think I know what I'm talking about, great! if they don't no big whoop. < unless of course it concerns safety issues or blantant abuse of other opinions> 

So In Conclusion, Don't try to read anything into my posts, I'll usually tell you straight out what I think. By the same token don't hesitate to call me on something you think is outta line. BTW you should read a thread on here, It was by a kid that was going through a similar situation as you about 6 months ago or so, there was a lot of discussions about techniques and strategies to help get younger students involved, I can't remmber the title I think it was "When I'm gone" or something like that. Anyway a ton of people responded and , I think, there was a lot of good ideas that might help you in your current sittuation. 
Found the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3935

SharynF has a really good post at the bottom of that thread.


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## gafftaper

Hey Rick,
I'm an ex-high school teacher with a big soft spot in my heart for young people. As such I've tried several times to sort of be the gentle voice of guidance. But since that isn't working, here's the straight up truth... In response to me giving you the straight truth, I ask you to not defend or argue with anything you read. What I'm about to say is how people feel... arguing or getting defensive won't change how people feel but it can make things worse. 

First, you made a lot of people around here bristle in your initial introduction. Why? you are a high school senior and call yourself a technical director. There are people around here with 20, 30, 40 (more?) years of experience, who have degrees, and have worked their whole lives to earn the title T.D. It's a term of respect and a huge amount of responsibility attached to it. Out here in the world, the term T.D. means you know everything and are a leader of the entire tech staff. Most of us have a significant T.D. in our lives that we respect dramatically and who was a huge influence on our growth and training. It's a term we don't use lightly. Personally, I've been working part time at this college for almost 4 years. In that time I've handed all the tech needs of productions, worked with architects to design our new theater, teaching classes, training students, and I will be in charge of deciding how hundreds of thousands of dollars are spent on equipment. However, it wasn't until the college decided to pay for my trip to LDI this last fall that I felt worthy of calling myself the T.D. You aren't the only high school student around here to call yourself a T.D. so you aren't alone in this. But try to understand that it's more than just a job for many, it's a title of honor that is earned with years of hard work and dedication

Secondly, shortly after that... maybe in the same thread even there was a discussion about how it's a shame you don't have a full time staff member to teach you. Your response made it sound like you have a huge "I know everything" chip on your shoulder. This was reinforced several times in other posts that really make you sound like a "know it all". While you may know all about the equipment in your theater... I assure you you don't know it all. I'm 37, I've been doing sound since 5th grade and doing lighting since 9th grade. I recently finished reading a book on DMX, I'm currently reading a book on automated lighting, I just picked up a book on scene shop techniques, and currently looking for a deal on a book about lighting theater in the round. Have you seen that post with Ship's book list? ANYONE who says they know it all and have nothing to learn in this business is first of all a fool because there is just too much to learn... hence the beauty of this site as a place to share knowledge of all kinds. Secondly most of us older folks have worked with a "know it all" or two along they way. They usually end up causing more work and can be dangerous to themselves and others. In my experience I had to rebuild most of a set because of a know it all "master" carpenter who didn't think anyone would notice if the base platforms weren't level. I tried to gently cover this topic in a previous thread but here it is straight up. If you carry your know it all attitude on into college and the professional world you are going to have a hard time finding work my friend. You'll get a reputation and people won't hire you. Plus, you will run into a grouchy T.D. or two who will kick your butt before they kick you out of their theater. 

Finally, the content of many of your posts have focused on how screwed up your beautiful new theater is. Hey yeah, they cut funding and things didn't get done. Deal with it. The high school I taught at had a 40 year old auditorium that was painted turquoise. I had a $600 a year budget for the entire theater program. You had a post a while back about the lack of back stage monitors. We didn't have monitors either, but my sound guys figured out a way to run a fully functional monitor system to our green room that was about 150 feet from the booth, using a bunch of used zip cord, an ancient home stereo head unit purchased at a thrift store for $5, and some old home bookshelf speakers I got at a garage sale for $1. The college I'm working at now have performed everywhere from a choir classroom and a cafeteria to on a left over set of a local community theater production, and a very ugly ball room. Quickly your posts have started to sound like whining to people around here. Very few of us had high school experiences in a facility as nice as yours. Many were stuck trying to do theater in "cafe-toriums" or worse. You can complain about it or you can look at it as a an opportunity to learn new skills. 

So, put that together and this is the image people have: disrespectful of what it means to be a T.D., a know it all, and a spoiled complainer. A "big fish in a small pond" who thinks he's the Shiznit (sorry I taught in a ghetto school). Again, I'm not saying that is who you are, I'm saying that's how people here see you. 

So what to do about all this? 
-Stop complaining about your theater and all the incompetent people in your school. 
-Admit to yourself you don't know everything and having someone to teach you more would be great. People HATE "know it alls"... stop this bad habit right now before you screw up your whole career. 
-Post responses to other people's problems that are helpful based on your experience... you may not know the answer to every question but you do know some answers so get in there and share what you do know. Clearly you've got a lot more experience than many of the other young techs around here. Be a leader and share what you know with them. 
-Many of your posts and threads have been good and constructive but they have been completely forgotten due to what you have written in this thread and a couple of others. Drop these threads and move on. 

So there is the straight truth. Please don't respond and try to explain your actions, that won't help. It doesn't matter what your intentions were, all that matters is how others interpreted your posts. You can't change that reaction to the past, but you can make it worse. To make things better all you can do is move on and change the future responses to your posts. Don't bother responding to me here, I'm not ever coming back to read this thread. I suggest you do the same. Let's let this all die and move on.


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## Lightingguy32

Rickblu said:


> well if you've read my hello thread, as you know I'm the technical director for our schools brand new theater, the whole school is brand new.
> Well to list a few things they screwed up big time on,
> Stage Flooring: The school board desided they needed the front of the stage with a finished wood floor (waxed ect...) Not such a big deal since the red curtain cuts the black stage off when closed for regular events but for theater events it doesn't look too good.
> Well so the black part that's suppose to be marley "spelling", is just regular wood with black paint over it, thus alls you can see is cracks as it's in no ways close together big gaps in it and the paint is chipping off. It scratches easy as hell so that's all you can see is imprints from things that were on stage.
> ----
> Communications- wired com system how ever no com hookups on stage, none by rigging, non up back, and none on the other side. No communication to back stage (chorus and band room), and No Wireless System.
> ----
> Back Stage Preview- A must for the plays, the wiring was cut out of the budget.
> Alright so now the last part of your training I really don't want to say what this is, but I have too. This is the amp for your back stage preview system which they cut the wiring out of the budget.
> we have the amp and the big speakers sitting in the storage closet but no way to connect it into the system.
> ----
> Projector System- The whole place is wired for a projector system front stage hookups, in floor hookups around the theater, a whole A/v setup in the front rack so the principle can just come in and play a video, and even the wiring was run. But they cut the projector out of the budget.
> -----
> The stage- In part with the wrong stage flooring put in, the waxed part is warping and it's un even, the front lip trim has snapped due to stress of being put in uneven and the front brown partical board part is chipping.
> -----
> The lighting system, the company abandoned us said they came out a year ago when no one was even in the school as it hadn't been turned over to the city yet. thus they were not obligated to train us on the system.
> 4,000 Software system (WYSIWYG) useless to us, they tried installing it on a FAT32 Formmated system (which if you read the manual it says it WILL NOT work on) and they just gave up. We had to fix it our self and find a company to train us on it.
> -----


The part about a waxed floor and a cheaply painted black floor sounds familiar. Our school did the exact same thing when they renovated our auditorium. This is normally the school boards fault cause they assume this auditorium will eventually become a place for school board meetings infront of the curtain line, thus meaning the curtain is closed and the only floor visible is a waxed wood floor. Speaking of waxed floors, don't you hate the reflection of light of the the waxed floor and onto the ceiling during a production?


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## stantonsound

ummm....be careful with the fish tape if you don't know where the conduit is going. If it goes into a panel, you will likely have one more thing to complain about, namely electrocution. If you have an air compressor, make a little parachute out of a plastic bag, tie a pull string to it, and blow it through the conduit. It is a great deal safer, but still, you should be careful.


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## Edrick

Well tomorrow is actually my last thing, so I wont be worrying about it anymore. I'll do some finishing work before I take my complete leave next week. We actually ended classes last friday and then I had two finals to do this week and a major video to finish. Which after spending hours today finishing I have to get there early and fix something before we can show it. arrg. But anyways, thank god I'm finally done here. Not that I didn't enjoy doing the stuff it's just time to move on and off to Boston in August maybe ill look for a internship of some sort in Theater in boston.


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## Dustincoc

Rickblu said:


> \
> I've been waiting for 3 days to get the holes in the control room table put in so I can run the power and sound cables through them instead of infront of the table like they've been for the past 7 Months.



That's where a drill with a hole saw comes in handy...


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## museav

It's always easy to second guess what was done without knowing all the facts. I have been through many projects that had similar outcomes to those noted but in most cases for good reason or more as a result of politics than failure on the Architect's, designer's or contractor's part.

Things like high school districts that had us 'dumb down' the systems for a new school because although we were working with the same budget, what was designed was better than what was provided in the existing schools in the district. Or the one school that wanted us to design the sound system without a mixing console because they thought they already had one somehwere, of course they couldn't tell us what it was and when it was time to connect the console it turned out to be an empty road case for a mixer. Or the school district that had a 'standard' audio system design from a contractor that was so over the top on some areas that they couldn't afford some of the basics (L/C/R Renkus-Heinz arrays but very limited stage inputs and production communications).

Then there was the theatre that started out as a high school facility but evolved through private funding into a touring house with full time tech staff and that the students could not even enter without permission, not to mention that at the same time they awarded all the audio system to the low bid 'low voltage contractor' for the rest of the school who initally wanted to substitute Rauland and Dukane for EAW and Soundcraft. Or the middle school that inisted we design the sound system for a proscenium theatre space around the same 360 degree coverage PA speaker and mixer/amp used in the gym (we gave them our design using what we felt was appropriate and told them we would not provide a design we felt was improper or would not work). 

It is very common to design theatres for future expansion and functionality that the initial budget cannot accommodate, thus having excess conduit, cabling, etc. for these functions should not be seem as a negative. Running these provisions during the building construction is almost always much less costly than trying to add them later. However, I have always tried to get the empty conduit to be provided with pull strings and identified as to purpose. And when it comes to construction costs, tech systems that are not related to code compliance or obtaining a Certificate of Occupancy are often the first victims of Value Engineering.

The partially wood floor is quite common with Architects and Owners who seem to visually relate that to what they see as a theater or auditorium. One of those things where they feel people expect to see it even if it isn't the best solution functionally. Also keep in mind that not only are many schools required to go with the low "qualified" (which is often not well defined in regards to theater) designer and contractor bidders, but these projects often have design fees that are the same fixed percentage of the construction cost as for any other school facility and no money allocated for specialty consultants. On some projects an Architect getting a consultant involved in a theatre design may quite literally be paying for that out of their pocket.

The point is not to complain about all the problems, but rather to point out that there are many factors that may enter into a theatre construction project and one has to be careful about placing blame or saying something is "wrong" without knowing all the facts. We can probably all benefit by trying to change the process and getting administrators and others to better recognize the special requirements of theatres.


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## Stoldal

Reading your guys posts, i find my self think that i am very blessed. I work at a high school, we dont have a theatre, but still we have produced some amzaing productions, some how we pulled of Cats. But really we are blessed with over 100k worth of lighting and sound equipment. I think reason why i really never thought how blessed we are because the drama dept is growing to fast, ad we are always need more things, o well. Fyi i live is las vegas, Nevada, and i volunteer my experiences in lighting and sound to any high school or middle school that needs any help with there tech dept.


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## Edrick

Well sadly to say the Tech Team for the High School has seemed to drop off the face of the planet. The only people that are left are my assistant from last year, who despises doing his job and pretty much only does work at our Media Center now. It's really sad to see that the school has almost no one now to do events.


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## gafftaper

Rickblu said:


> Well sadly to say the Tech Team for the High School has seemed to drop off the face of the planet. The only people that are left are my assistant from last year, who despises doing his job and pretty much only does work at our Media Center now. It's really sad to see that the school has almost no one now to do events.



Rick that's just the way it goes in schools that don't have a tech director. There are periods of time that really ambitious students like yourself are there and the tech is great. Then those students graduate and it goes down hill for a while. But the good news is, you aren't "the chosen one"... there will be "another" who will follow in your footsteps in a few years and things will be good again for a while. He'll never know you existed of course as all your hard work will be lost to the wind by then, but that's just the way it goes. Thus the reason I keep telling people to volunteer as much time in high schools as you can. An hour hear or there can make a huge difference. For example, go back in a year or two and just spend an afternoon teaching whoever is there how to run the light board. It's not a big deal to you but it'll go a long way toward keeping things alive.


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## Edrick

I'm planning on helping out come this winter break, although I don't have to teach anyone or help out persay since the current person is there just in a less involved manner. I'd still like to go back and help out a bit and maybe a few pointers I thought about over the summer and things I would have done differently.


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## gafftaper

Rickblu said:


> I'm planning on helping out come this winter break, although I don't have to teach anyone or help out persay since the current person is there just in a less involved manner. I'd still like to go back and help out a bit and maybe a few pointers I thought about over the summer and things I would have done differently.



Going back and helping out like that would be great. Just remember the flip side of it, you are a graduated adult and it's time for others to learn and struggle through. Some of my former students have spent too much time going back to the old high school to try to keep things going. They feel guilty about what has happened to our great tech program. While the thought is admirable, there comes a point you need to move on and not feel guilty about it. While helping out here and there is something you can do to really make a difference. Schools are users and will suck every last hour out of you that they can. You have a new life ahead of you, be careful or you'll find yourself stuck back in your old life too much.


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