# Not another pin connector question!



## derekleffew (Jul 8, 2016)

Suggested by a member:

On a 60 Amp male 2P&G connector, which pin is the ground and, for bonus points, why isn’t it the middle contact as on the smaller, more common, 20 Amp 2P&G connectors?

Students only, even if it is summer, for one week please.


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## ratthepoodle (Jul 8, 2016)

On 60A 2P&G, the outside pin in the pair is ground (neutral on 20A 2P&G). I'm not sure why this is...but possibly to conform to caml-lok layout on a company switch(ground, neutral, then hot)?


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## Thetechmanmac (Jul 8, 2016)

On a 60A, the ground is the pin furthest away from the rest. (the pin all the way to the right if the connector pins are facing you)

Different pin arrangement to prevent accidental connection into a 20A circuit?


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## derekleffew (Jul 8, 2016)

ratthepoodle said:


> On 60A 2P&G, the outside pin in the pair is ground




Thetechmanmac said:


> On a 60A, the ground is the pin furthest away from the rest.



Oh boy! Two conflicting answers already. 
For the sake of this 60A discussion, let's call the pins (or sockets)
__Larry___Curly________Moe__.



The top post says ground is Larry; the bottom says it's Moe. Only wussy twenty-ampers would be team Curly. Nyuk nyuk nyuk.


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## Thetechmanmac (Jul 8, 2016)

Did a little research, I was wrong! What is the significance of having the ground pin within the pair?


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## TheTheaterGeek (Jul 11, 2016)

Isn't it so it is harder to short out the plug to neutral. Would hit ground instead?


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## TheTheaterGeek (Jul 11, 2016)

My super says Larry. Wait....am I a wussy 20amper  


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## JohnD (Jul 13, 2016)

What a great question, of course if I were asking I would title this "How did the 2P get it's G"
How about the other flavors, 10Amp, 30Amp and 100Amp. I have no idea if the 10Amp was ever made with a ground.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 13, 2016)

JohnD said:


> What a great question, of course if I were asking I would title this "How did the 2P get it's G"
> How about the other flavors, 10Amp, 30Amp and 100Amp. I have no idea if the 10Amp was ever made with a ground.


I believe 2P&G 20's, 60's and 100's are currently offered for sale as existing products from Rosco Labs.
Caution John; we're still within the 1 week, students only, period.
Toodleoo! Ron Hebbard.


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## porkchop (Jul 14, 2016)

Past one week. I waited even though my answer is hardly an expert one. It is reasonable to think that having the grounded conductor (neutral) close to the grounding conductor (ground) to better isolate the live conductor, but it's always seemed to me like these kind of connector differences are mostly arbitrary and done to prevent the matting of non-matched connectors.


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## Mac Hosehead (Jul 14, 2016)

porkchop said:


> Past one week. I waited even though my answer is hardly an expert one. It is reasonable to think that having the grounded conductor (neutral) close to the grounding conductor (ground) to better isolate the live conductor, but it's always seemed to me like these kind of connector differences are mostly arbitrary and done to prevent the matting of non-matched connectors.



To dance around the answer some more, it would also be reasonable for an inline power connector to put the grounding pin in the middle and make it longer so it would make contact first.

Yeah and put a locking tab at the end. That would be cool. Oh wait, that didn't work out so well...


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## derekleffew (Jul 14, 2016)

JohnD said:


> ...I have no idea if the 10Amp was ever made with a ground.


I've never seen one. But then, I think I've only ever seen three 10A pin connectors in the forty years I;ve been in the business.


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## porkchop (Jul 14, 2016)

Mac Hosehead said:


> To dance around the answer some more, it would also be reasonable for an inline power connector to put the grounding pin in the middle and make it longer so it would make contact first.
> 
> Yeah and put a locking tab at the end. That would be cool. Oh wait, that didn't work out so well...



Only if you design it to be backwards compatible with it's non-UL listed predecessor.


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## STEVETERRY (Jul 16, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> Suggested by a member:
> 
> On a 60 Amp male 2P&G connector, which pin is the ground and, for bonus points, why isn’t it the middle contact as on the smaller, more common, 20 Amp 2P&G connectors?
> 
> Students only, even if it is summer, for one week please.



Since we're beyond the one week restriction:

The grounding pin on the 60A pin plug was a "modern" afterthought. Why bother with that pesky grounding pin on all the existing circuits and connectors? Simple solution: just add it on to the side of the connector, insuring backward compatibility with two-wire connectors. Plus, if you were not in the three-wire camp ("We don't need no stinkin' grounds!") look at all the phenolic material you saved on two-wire connectors!

This is a clear reason why the entertainment industry needed a standards organization long before they actually got one with ESTA!

ST


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## gafftapegreenia (Jul 16, 2016)

So, any pictures of these slimmer, ungrounded, two pin 60 amp Bates connectors? 


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## RonHebbard (Jul 16, 2016)

STEVETERRY said:


> Since we're beyond the one week restriction:
> 
> The grounding pin on the 60A pin plug was a "modern" afterthought. Why bother with that pesky grounding pin on all the existing circuits and connectors? Simple solution: just add it on to the side of the connector, insuring backward compatibility with two-wire connectors. Plus, if you were not in the three-wire camp ("We don't need no stinkin' grounds!") look at all the phenolic material you saved on two-wire connectors!
> 
> ...


On the 60 A connectors, when you consider the diameter of the contacts, along with their center to center spacing, there was insufficient space between the contacts to add a third in between and still have a structurally sound connector (Let alone placing the third contact slightly off center to provide polarizing). Inter-mating 2P 60A's with 2P&G 60's sure leads to some unusual looking matings. On the male connectors, the quick answer to which pin is ground is it's always the longest pin; not by much but it's always longer. I suspect the same creative rationale applies to the 100A connectors although I can't personally recall ever having a 2P 100A male in my hands.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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