# Senior Year Project - Designing a Facility



## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

(On phone so I hope this makes it through, and it will be kinda short. Ask questions as needed.)

Background: I am a sophomore theatre major at Truman State. This project is for my senior year project. It's two years early cause I know it will be difficult, and it will come in stages...first stage ideas.

For my capstone I want to design a theatre...so what I am asking is what aspects would you want in a theatre? 

No budget during idea stage (I will implement a budget when doing concrete designs.) 

Asking for ideas conncerning space, equipment, sound, lights, design, management, fly, et cetera. If you can think of it I would be grateful. I have some things in my mind, but list whatever no matter how obvious they seem. (I could have easily over-looked, or honestly not even thought about it.)

Thank you for any and all help,
Justin W Crough
aspiring TD


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## epimetheus (Dec 22, 2009)

Check any recent thread on renovations or new facilities. We like to talk about what we want and don't have, or what we just got that we think everybody else should have.

There are a million different things you could want in a theater. You might want to narrow down the type of stage (thrust, proscenium, in-the-round, etc.), type of shows, anticipated audience, etc. Since this is a design project, I would decide that first for myself, then ask what people would like to have in that scenario. You'll get greatly varying answers between a theater designed for plays and one designed for R&R.


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## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

So true, sorry bout ommiting those details. 

Proscenium stage, (semi-thrust).
~600-800 audience capicity
~suggested town size 15k plus surrounding area.
~Orchrastra pit
~Two "levels" in audience one in front, then walkway with raised second area. No balconies. 
~Sound board at walkway(subject to change)
~Cats over audience, arbors on sides in house.
~Private building space. (not part of civic center, etc)
~Couple extra areas to rent out(prob 2, one for wedding type events, receptions, dinners, etc; and one for guest shows) Also blackbox and "rehearsal stage" (no lxs or sx, stage slightly smaller on scale)

That's all I can remember without my notes here.

ps catwalk between semi-thrust and pit


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## mstaylor (Dec 22, 2009)

That is a great senior project and smart to start now. Some other things to think about. Are you planning to include movers in the plan? Is it going to be community theatre, traveling productions, or college. All these thing impact your equipment selections. 
Think about scene shop placement. We have a HS scene shop that is across the hall from the theatre, not a big problem except we requested all 12ft doors.They did that, every "door" is 12ft tall but the block opening to the tunnel offstage is 8ft. So anything built taller than 8ft won't come into the stage area. Also it takes the ability to use the scene shop as set storage away.


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## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

Community theatre
No movers in first few years. Read gaffers method and will implement that first. And honestly I'm just now learning equipment details via this forum.
Shop will be directly off stage maybe offwing maybe directly behind. (Leaning to behind.) I will design large enough doors, that's one of peeves concerning some theatres.


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## tjrobb (Dec 22, 2009)

I have been designed a theatre "for fun" for about 4 or 5 years now. I have it in AutoCAD 06, and Excel 07 files for the stage tech and building tech. There are also Office 07 docs for specs and other oddities. Including PDF's of the fixtures, etc., it is several megs of data (the building alone is one megabyte).

About 60k square feet, about 3 floors (varies), 702 capacity w/ balcony.
Meets all current US codes, including fire / sprinklers, electric, building, etc.

If you want more information, or have questions about how I went about doing things let me know (here or in PM). I know you don't have 5 years, but maybe I can point you in the right direction...


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## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

tjrobb said:


> If you want more information, or have questions about how I went about doing things let me know (here or in PM). I know you don't have 5 years, but maybe I can point you in the right direction...


 Responded privetly altho I think I did it in two different styles. (Still getting used to the forum mechanics.)


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## ajb (Dec 22, 2009)

I would recommend some separation between the shop and stage--dealing with a directly adjacent shop right now, and it's no fun having to be quiet for our bazillion daytime field trip shows.

I think ideally you'd have a large central corridor--big enough to stage and move large scenery through--that connects at least one exterior loading dock to loading doors into each venue and into the shop. The shop should also have its own exterior loading door. If you can afford the square footage, you can also use this space as in-show scenery storage.

Make sure you have the height clearance to roll scenery into wings. You might consider going to automated linsets to eliminate the need for a fly rail, although this cuts down on some rigging options. Either way, spec' your grid to support chain motors as well.

For the shop itself, ideally you have an exterior loading door, racks for raw materials just inside, then big processing tools (table saw, panel saw, etc), then work tables, then a big empty space for pre-assembly, paint, and finish work, and finally a loading door into your venues. You want enough space to have a logical progression from raw materials to finished product. Also make sure you have enough space to handle your materials--steel generally comes in 25' lengths, lumber up to 16' usually. Your chop saw work tables should be at least 1.5x the length of the material you will be using.

It can be very helpful to have some basic lighting and sound in your rehearsal halls, especially if you have any sort of educational performance program--it can relieve a lot of scheduling pressure from your main venues if you can put smaller showcase/workshop type performances in a rehearsal hall.

Make sure your rehearsal halls are big enough to tape out a full mainstage set, this will be a big help when put-in time comes around. I wouldn't bother doing any sort of permanent stage, just a big empty room and storage space for risers and chairs that can be set up as needed. 

Consider a tension wire grid for FOH. This gives you a lot of flexibility and an easier working environment. They can be built with removable panels or open slots to allow for rigging through.

For amenities, read through AEA guidelines on dressing rooms etc. and make sure you can meet them.

If you're getting this detailed, try to avoid having electrical equipment installed on any walls where you might want to store stuff, since you'll need to keep any electrical equipment clearly accessible.


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## sk8rsdad (Dec 22, 2009)

It's a fun exercise but like most things, the devil is in the details. Some thoughts for your consideration:


What sort of shows will take place in the venue? Will touring shows be using it? What about dance schools, orchestras, etc.
Who is going to staff it?
Where will it be located? How do people get there? Do they use public transit, drive, or what?
What statutes apply in that location that will have to be factored in to the design? Do you need to accommodate mobility-impaired performers, crew, audience?
When you get to the budget give some thought to ongoing operating expenses and whether the groups that you intend to use the space will be able to afford it.
Don't forget the boring things. Bathrooms are not a luxury?
Any bonus points for LEED construction techniques or "green" initiatives?


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## JChenault (Dec 22, 2009)

JustinTech said:


> So true, sorry bout ommiting those details.
> 
> Proscenium stage, (semi-thrust).
> ~600-800 audience capicity
> ...



Justin - A couple of things in this list that I would like to address.

I have seen very few theatres that work as Proscenium / semi thrust. Usually it is a bad compromise. The only ones I have seen which work have a rounded apron, and seats that match that curve. This makes an orcestra pit a bit interesting. Try and get the plans for the Bowmer theatre at the Oregon Shakespeare festival for one that ( IMHO) works pretty well. Note that it does not have a formal proscenium arch. 

I would be careful about a center walkway between your seating areas. An audience in a theatre is a mystical and mysterious thing. They want to be a single entity - not disconnected for no reason. They accept US / DS aisles better than Right to Left Aisles. ( There is a theatre consultant in my area who always does this, and I find his spaces to always feel chopped up).


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## MarshallPope (Dec 22, 2009)

I would disagree about the right/left aisle. If done properly, with the back section properly raised and sloped, it can be effective. But, if it is just an aisle with the normal seating resuming behind it, it can be a negative.
However, I would rethink the sound board position. I have seen a few theatres that position theirs mid-house, and I always find it distracting. The closest lit thing to an audience member will draw their attention, be it an actor on stage or a techie trying to figure out why the CD player isn't working.


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## epimetheus (Dec 22, 2009)

JChenault said:


> Justin - A couple of things in this list that I would like to address.
> 
> I have seen very few theatres that work as Proscenium / semi thrust. Usually it is a bad compromise. The only ones I have seen which work have a rounded apron, and seats that match that curve. This makes an orcestra pit a bit interesting. Try and get the plans for the Bowmer theatre at the Oregon Shakespeare festival for one that ( IMHO) works pretty well. Note that it does not have a formal proscenium arch.



Rudder Auditorium at Texas A&M College Station has this semi-thrust/proscenium design. The orchestra pit is the apron. The pit floor is a giant hydraulic lift that provides access to the basement for tons of storage. The front of the pit/apron is rounded and matches the curve of the seating. This theater does have a true proscenium, and while it may not be a famous theater or anything, it did seem to work pretty well for most shows.


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## Studio (Dec 22, 2009)

epimetheus said:


> Rudder Auditorium at Texas A&M College Station has this semi-thrust/proscenium design. The orchestra pit is the apron. The pit floor is a giant hydraulic lift that provides access to the basement for tons of storage. The front of the pit/apron is rounded and matches the curve of the seating. This theater does have a true proscenium, and while it may not be a famous theater or anything, it did seem to work pretty well for most shows.



My school's orchestra pit has the same configuration, just be sure to have the main lighting catwalk back far enough to light the whole top of the pit, because some groups will need lighting on the whole pit.


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## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

epimetheus said:


> Rudder Auditorium at Texas A&M College Station has this semi-thrust/proscenium design. The orchestra pit is the apron. The pit floor is a giant hydraulic lift that provides access to the basement for tons of storage. The front of the pit/apron is rounded and matches the curve of the seating. This theater does have a true proscenium, and while it may not be a famous theater or anything, it did seem to work pretty well for most shows.


 
This is what I was meaning. with that semi-thrust and arch. The pit could be covered with a floor if not being used creating additional thrust but not so that the house is surrounding it.

As far as the aisle I had in mind...the back set of seats would be raised and sloped. I got this idea from my community theatre in which I like the idea. Actually IMO the first row of this second grouping is best for sight. Also it allows some seating in the aisle for wheel-chair accessibility and for those who can't climb stairs. 

Having the sound board there...I can see that definite issue, and that is the main reason why it was subject to change. (Does anyone have ideas that would help with this case? I do want the sound in house somehow so that way sound quality/levels can be changed to how they need to be if something changes mid-run.

Thanks so far from all with ideas/input...keep them coming.

Justin Crouch


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## MarshallPope (Dec 22, 2009)

My suggestion for booth location is at the back of the seating, but open to the house. both the theatre I work in and my church use this configuration, and it works well, IMO. My college theatre was built with the booth behind the back wall of the house with windows, and maybe 10 or so years ago they removed two rows of seats from the back of the house (1st floor, center section, on a second section very much like you are thinking - aisle, then raised seating) and built a new booth there. Because it is a few steps above the audience's heads behind a pony wall, booth noise is not a problem.


Best picture I can find. You can imagine where the booth is...


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## JustinTech (Dec 22, 2009)

sk8rsdad said:


> It's a fun exercise but like most things, the devil is in the details. Some thoughts for your consideration:
> 
> 
> What sort of shows will take place in the venue? Will touring shows be using it? What about dance schools, orchestras, etc.
> ...


 
1. Probably going to rent out to other venues, specially other main event room more so. (...more thoughts and thinks I should regard while planning?)
2. Staffing is 3stage also
3.Location is going to be dealt with in 3stage(planning) probably won't get to till summer, it is this stage I will figure out guesstimated budget and stuff. Also location specifics laws, regulations, etc
4. That's what I need to investigate in 2nd stage (research)
5. ya, I was thinking on that aspect, currently don't know details concerning
6. Planned on
7. not really, but if affordable and good, could always implement

(if you can't tell by reading particulary #2 and #3 I answered in reverses...just saying for reading sake...)


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## JChenault (Dec 22, 2009)

epimetheus said:


> Rudder Auditorium at Texas A&M College Station has this semi-thrust/proscenium design. The orchestra pit is the apron. The pit floor is a giant hydraulic lift that provides access to the basement for tons of storage. The front of the pit/apron is rounded and matches the curve of the seating. This theater does have a true proscenium, and while it may not be a famous theater or anything, it did seem to work pretty well for most shows.



I could be that we are arguing about the definition of 'semi thrust'. For me - a semi thrust has audience members on each end of the first row at a 45 degree angle to each other. From the image of Rudder Auditorium, I would define it as an extended apron - not a semi thrust. 

But there are no hard definitions of the term. If the OP was thinking of what I would call extended apron - my comment can and should be disregarded.

Thanks for the picture.


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## epimetheus (Dec 22, 2009)

JChenault said:


> I could be that we are arguing about the definition of 'semi thrust'. For me - a semi thrust has audience members on each end of the first row at a 45 degree angle to each other. From the image of Rudder Auditorium, I would define it as an extended apron - not a semi thrust.
> 
> But there are no hard definitions of the term. If the OP was thinking of what I would call extended apron - my comment can and should be disregarded.
> 
> Thanks for the picture.



Extended apron makes sense to me. I certainly don't know enough about theater to argue that point. All I know is it was awesome to have the lift in the pit. There's the more than twice the area of the stage and wings that's storage in the basement. The entire pit has a range to travel of more than 14 feet. Not sure what the load capacity is, but you could fill every inch of the pit with equipment and it still wasn't over limit.


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## Anvilx (Dec 23, 2009)

Threw a graphic together on stage types.

I don't know were the actual illustrations came from but i would love to attribute them.


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## venuetech (Dec 24, 2009)

Key to flexability are going to be things like 

freight elevator to the traproom. (not just the pit lift)

dedicated room to store at least one 9' concert grand and a baby grand or rehersal piano.

a trap room with 12'+ of head room, would be heaven. (or Hell)

having the shop well away from stage is ideal.

a sprung floor in the rehersal space.

access to stage from each corner dsr, dsl, usr, usl 

stage level crossover hall.

easy indoor access from stage to lobby on both right and left.

wide stage access doors for all those big things that come and go.

on stage rail

a right and left fly floor w pin rail

full grid

overhead loft blocks to maxmise grid access

lots of spare large conduits for "future use"

Center house power point

center house pull box

booth to catwalk access

rear of house open control bay


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## mstaylor (Dec 24, 2009)

Terminology question, what is a traproom? Also what is a pullbox? These are two terms I haven't heard. A pullbox to me is a location to pull a snake through. I'm not sure why you would want that.


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## museav (Dec 26, 2009)

Coming in a little late, but when you say this is a Senior Project is it for a class? If so, we are trying to keep that clearly identified.

When you say you are "designing" a facility, what do you mean? A complete facility design takes numerous professionals. Even if you get all the theatrical aspects what about architectural, structural, mechanical, electrical, life safety and other building systems? Those are just as much an integral part of the venue as rigging, lights, sound, etc.

As others have said, maybe you should approach this in the way professionals would on a real project. It stands out to me that you have identified things like the seating capacity, where the FOH mix position will be, how the seating is arranged, having an orchestra pit, etc. but have not identified the market, users, types of performances, budget, etc. that would be the basis for such decisions. That is backward from how it is done. Before you design anything you should have a good definition of the goals and vision for the venue. Why it is needed? What is needed? Who will run it and use it? What is the budget? What codes, ordinances, special considerations, etc. may apply? This initial step in the design process (although it may follow a market analysis or feasibility study) is typically called a Program or Needs Analysis Phase and is the first step in the design process as it forms the basis for everything that comes after.

Aspects such as the shape and topography of the site, local restrictions on height, access and setback requirements, parking requirements, etc. can also be major factors in the size, shape and layout of the building. Thus these factor into the next step of developing a general conceptual design for the facility. How big is it? What shape can the overall building take? How do you conceptually support the Program previously developed? What are the spaces involved and how should they relate? It may be acceptable for your project to ignore some of these factors but in real projects these are significant considerations that have to be addressed before even considering many of the other decisions.

As an example, I've been talking to a local group about a project that sounds similar, albeit maybe a bit smaller, and they have had numerous design professionals working on the basic building and site layout, site utilities, etc. for some time just to make sure it was even a viable project before they involved any theatre or tech systems consultants. And in this case the site is definitely driving numerous aspects of the facility design, as is the funding.

The point is that talking about details is sort of putting the cart before the horse without first having any well developed and defined basis for any discussion. I would start with that then funnel down into the details.


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## tjrobb (Dec 26, 2009)

Pullbox: Simpligfied, think of a giant electrical box, used for lots of or large conductors.

Trap Room: Typically found in proscenium theatres, the area under the stage where the trap doors can be accessed.


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## MNicolai (Dec 26, 2009)

I have to admit, it sounds like a fun project, but I'm with Brad on this. It's hard to make it realistic. Our facility is one year old, and fits into a lot of your constraints, but there are tons of hidden problems. The reason those problems exist is not because they were completely unforeseen, but because of money. It's easy to put down on paper a really awesome theatre with really awesome equipment, but if you get someone crunching numbers on it, they'll laugh you out of the room. There's no motivation to you as a designer to make it an efficient design, just effective.

Plus, you get structural, electrical, and civil engineers, building inspectors, and architects involved, and everything changes. Your sprung floors and gala pit lift looks amazing on paper, but on site it's impossible to build because you're on top of a marsh and those things require a deeper foundation that's simply impossible to dig deeper into.

I don't mean to deter you on your project, but the prospect of a dream facility probably isn't a good representation of your abilities as a theatrical consultant. The dream facilities of the world are actual PITA's. We have one in Madison that's backed by an incredibly rich owner, but each time the contractors do something and complete the project, the owner finds another small problem (ie. five seats out of three thousand are obstructed views) and has the contractors rip the roof apart and rebuild the entire house. This is a real project where that has happened. The exact numbers on the seating are off, but I remember our contractors telling us about that project and that particular problem. When you have seemingly infinite funds, you have a seemingly infinite number of problems to solve. I mean, it's great for the contractors because they've had crews on site their for the last decade, but the venue gets used about a dozen times a year as a result.

The problem with your project is simple economics. Private enterprise can only succeed when there's motivation to make a profit. If you can only generalize your design based on "This costs a lot more than that, but the benefit is worth it," you will never get hired as a theatrical consultant. You'll also not be able to justly show your competence to your professors. You'll be able to show off your ability to spend money, but that's about it. I'd strongly advise you reframe your idea for your project before moving on. 

Maybe you can find a real theatre with real problems to be solved. You may not actually need to spend any money, but get the wheels moving on a real project and get real contractors to provide real quotes. You could put a plan in place that the venue could actually consider as a real capital project to pursue as donor funds become available. Anyone can put together a shopping list if they have an undefined amount of funds to spend, but it takes someone truly skilled to pull a rabbit out of a hat with real constraints as to the size of the hat and method of making the rabbit appear.


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## venuetech (Dec 27, 2009)

MNicolai said:


> I have to admit, it sounds like a fun project, but I'm with Brad on this. It's hard to make it realistic. Our facility is one year old, and fits into a lot of your constraints, but there are tons of hidden problems. The reason those problems exist is not because they were completely unforeseen, but because of money. It's easy to put down on paper a really awesome theatre with really awesome equipment, but if you get someone crunching numbers on it, they'll laugh you out of the room. There's no motivation to you as a designer to make it an efficient design, just effective.
> 
> Plus, you get structural, electrical, and civil engineers, building inspectors, and architects involved, and everything changes. Your sprung floors and gala pit lift looks amazing on paper, but on site it's impossible to build because you're on top of a marsh and those things require a deeper foundation that's simply impossible to dig deeper into.
> 
> ...



after all that reality is said and done. dont forget to.....
DREAM..
carry on


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## museav (Dec 27, 2009)

venuetech said:


> after all that reality is said and done. dont forget to.....
> DREAM..
> carry on


I think that is the very idea being discussed. One aspect deals with defining the dream, another with reconciling the dream with reality (or turning the dream into reality if you prefer).

On the first, is the dream two sloped seating areas or good sightlines and comfort for the patrons? Is your vision having an orchestra pit or rather supporting certain events and performances? Being able to translate the underlying goals that represent your vision is critical to a successful result. Too often I see people skipping that and getting caught up in details, only to then be disappointed when others do not understand their dream or when they get a result that is exactly what was defined rather than the underlying more general vision.

On the second, what does it take to bring your dream to fruition? What basis is there for reconciling conflicts between the dream and reality? What basis are you providing for others to assist in helping turning your dream into reality, if a specific element is impractical what is there for anyone to use in developing potential alternatives or options? How does one know whether a pit is simply one solution to a more general need or so important that not having one makes the entire project impractical? How would someone assess whether some flat floor area with removable seating may be a viable alternative if a pit is impractical?

That is sort of why I was asking what was intended by designing a facility. Just picking answers is not design, design is developing solutions to particular problems and applications and that requires defining the problems and application first. This is a problem I run into all the time, clients that jump right into specifics without defining or sharing the overall vision and goals for the project. This not only limits the potential value of any other parties, it also creates an environment where those specifics rather than more general goals become the only definition for a successful result. To stick with the pit example, saying you want a pit is one thing but identifying the reasons behind needing that desire may provide insight into not only the pit itself but also other related considerations. If you focus on just the actual pit rather than the underlying needs you may get nothing or miss some other related aspects that might have led to a more successful implementation of your vision.

I don't believe this is an Architecture or Engineering project, so perhaps such areas are best left alone or to others with the focus being on defining the vision in a manner that would allow those parties to best perform their work and result in the dream being fulfilled to the extent possible. If you wanted to get into those design areas, which in reality would have to be addressed by properly qualified and licensed professionals, then having a good definition of the project goals and vision will be invaluable anyways, so it would probably still be a good place to start.


As an aside, an important aspect of facility design is that numerous aspects do have to be handled by appropriately experienced, trained and certified professionals. What many people do not understand is that those design professionals are liable for their work, in the end the work they generate and the related results are their responsibility. Thus while there are certainly many areas of facility design that can be defined as desired, there are also many areas where codes, ordinances, Standards, 'industry standard practice, etc. apply that the designers have to be able to design as they see fit. This is where the above discussion can be so important, the facility designers may need the liberty to deviate from details and specifics dictated to them but can still try to support the dream or vision if that is adequately defined.


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## JustinTech (Dec 30, 2009)

As of for class. No. Not persay, it's a final project that our Major Advisor...oversees. Many direct a show, or do a full portfolio type of thing. This is actually not the 'real' project I am going for, just a preliminary project.

Yes this is a BASIC design for a "Dream" Theatre. This being said, I will take into account, most real aspects that I know of...seeing as prior to theatre I planned on architecture field, I know some basics but nothing substantial.

The Real Project is actually after this gets planned. And is primarly for the shop section...my project, Stock it. I will find an average budget that a theatre in my demographic area would have for stocking the shop and basics on props/costumes and go with it. This includes lighting, sound, mics, basic set pieces, et cetera.

This is not the design phase I am in...this is for exactly what is happening. To bring up any snags I have in my thinking...any things I should think about, and any ideas for the design phase when I get there.

When going with a demographic, I am using Kirksville, MO, as my area. 14k people...small town, with outlaying farmland. Target age group is 18-30, but shows will be chosen to be family shows, grandkids to grandparents appropriate. Parking, accessibility, and such will be chosen once I find a "location" to build. As far as specs go, I am designing primarly off of my community theatre at Quincy, IL. Using what I know about the two locations to make something... "real".

Thanks for all thoughts, keep up discussion if you wish I will be on and take notes when I can.

Justin W. Crouch


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## SHARYNF (Dec 30, 2009)

Brad has brought up some excellent points, and most of us who have been on the pro side of things would agree.

I guess I would raise a couple of additional items to consider:

I know this is a academic project, but I feel strongly that someone learning needs to learn how to do it properly. Especially if this is again from an academic standpoint.

As Brad mentioned, the program phase is the most important. I have worked with a number of designers and usually it is how they handle this side of the task that either wins or looses them the business. Design is all about market needs and limitations and tradeoffs, so IMHO the key here is to learn how this is balanced... SO it is not just based on the demographics of the community, it is really (if done properly) a process where the different users all work thru a facilitated process where the requirements and nice to have, and dreams are put together

Then there is a facilitated process where the trade offs are worked out and the facilitator has a feel for how this is going to impact design

For instance if one group insists that they need to have the ability to show general released movies then the design of the booth needs to accommodate that

If the major use is for a symphony orchestra then they have a very different type of stage setup, if it is for a theater, then again different, if it needs to be shared say by symphony, theater, debate performances, and say lectures that that needs to be also taken into account


Basically the whole program process is where the users as a group work out the compromises so that the design process can then start.

So you could actually go thru this process OR you could simulate it but you need to show the user groups their requirments and the tradeoffs etc

From there the theater design process and the general architecture and the structural design starts to take off. Then you have the process of cost estimates to see if it will meet the budget and then the iteration of what gets altered to meet the budget. Rarely if ever do you have a open checkbook where the requirments to design operates on the what ever it takes

Anyway probably more than you bargained for but you have to remember that a lot of the folks on this forum are experienced professionals so you tend to get an approach that is more based in reality than academics

Sharyn


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## MNicolai (Dec 31, 2009)

Don't get us wrong. Brad and Sharyn and I aren't trying to kill any dreams. What we're aiming to do is put the idea of designing a facility in perspective. There are a lot of factors to consider in designing a facility, and unless you're actually doing it, it's difficult to simulate. For the educational purpose of your project, we just want to help you, in whichever way possible, to prove to your professors that you're ready to enter the professional world with their confidence in you and with that institution's stamp of approval on your diploma.

Dreaming only does accomplishes that if you're a theology or philosophy student. So when you say you want to design a facility with undefined constraints, that won't fulfill the purpose of a capstone project. Now if you can define those constraints, which it seems like you're at least somewhat prepared to do, then that's a start. I hesitate to say I fully understand where you're taking this though. Design a dream facility, then stock it's scene shop? A lot of theatres don't know everything they need until they actually need it -- until a group walks in the door and says, "I need a way to make it snow on stage" and "I need to plug 60A 2P&G connectors in somewhere for these wash lights."

As you frame the goal of your project, I ask you this: When will you know that you've been successful? How do you measure success? Is success putting together a good shopping list for a scene shop? How will you know if it's complete? How do you test whether you've done an excellent job or if you've botched it up? Or is success simply proving your a capable {insert job title here}? If so, would this project do that for you?

Before you dive into designing a dream facility and finding what tools to put in the shop you may want to establish a measure for the completion of your project as well as the quality at which you've performed your work.


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## museav (Jan 1, 2010)

JustinTech said:


> Yes this is a BASIC design for a "Dream" Theatre.


I have several Dream Theater (Dream Theater - The Official Site) CDs in my collection!


JustinTech said:


> This is not the design phase I am in...this is for exactly what is happening. To bring up any snags I have in my thinking...any things I should think about, and any ideas for the design phase when I get there.
> 
> When going with a demographic, I am using Kirksville, MO, as my area. 14k people...small town, with outlaying farmland. Target age group is 18-30, but shows will be chosen to be family shows, grandkids to grandparents appropriate. Parking, accessibility, and such will be chosen once I find a "location" to build. As far as specs go, I am designing primarly off of my community theatre at Quincy, IL. Using what I know about the two locations to make something... "real".


I believe that what have all been suggesting is that before making any decision about the physical facility you need to define what the facility needs to be and do on a more general basis. What are the needs of the community? Who would be using this venue and for what? Just a few minutes on the Internet finds that Kirksville has an arts association including a community theater company, the Curtain Call Theatre Company, that is looking for a permanent home. Is this potential home for them or for a competing community theatre group in a town of 17,000? How does the seating capacity you noted relate to the average audience of over 1,000 they note? How might this venue relate to the theatre program and facilities at Truman State or to the existing community orchestra and chorus? Might this facility be used by private groups for events and meetings? All of these factors could help define the potential needs for the venue as well as the potential priorities of those needs.

After you have an idea who the users are and what their needs are, then you might have to look at things like whether it is more cost effective to build from scratch or might it make more sense to adapt an existing space, an approach many community theaters take? What staffing would be required? Would being near restaurants or certain other types of businesses generate greater attendance and thus perhaps factor into selecting a location? At some point, there has to be a cost analysis to see if the venue as envisioned is a viable entity, which would include factoring the costs for the physical property, staff, operation, insurance, taxes, maintenance, etc. as well as projected income. What would it take to operate in the black? Will the resident community theater use alone support the facility defined or might other uses that generate additional income need to be incorporated? Might some uses or components have to be cut to make the facility financially viable? This is the often unpleasant aspect of a project where one has to determine what parts of the 'dream' can actually be supported and how. It is also as far as many projects get.

This is the process and type of information usually required to define the goals and requirements for a venue. Even if you focus just on the Shop and tech system stock, you would still need some basis for those aspects. You could design the world's best shop but might it not only be more than required for the application but also beyond the ability of the venue and users to support it?

Doing all the work necessary to get to the point of actually designing the facility or components of it would be rather ambitious for a school project and for a purely academic exercise may not be practical. However, whether based on a real applictaion or assumed information, I believe you still need to first define factors such as the type of events and performances to be supported, the users, the hours of use, etc. and the related expectations of the facility. Details like needing to be able to work in the Shop concurrent with an event taking place in the Auditorium or needing to address multiple users or whether there will be a full time Tech Director can have a major impact on the facility design and cost. Those are the type of more general, functional issues that need to be identified before getting into how the facility will support them.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 12, 2010)

Can I take this back a few steps and ask a couple questions? First off, what is your major? Are you a designer? A technician? Actor? Director? How/why is this project going to cap off your college career?

You talk about designing a theatre and then stocking it's scene shop and technical areas. Not all theatres have a scene shop or even own more than a few odds and ends as the shows that come through are bringing all their own gear. Since I work at a theatre that does build and produce every show I can say that we stock our scene shop based on the needs of the current shows.

Now, if your goal after graduation is to work for a theatre design firm like Fisher-Dachs Assoc. then maybe a project like the one you describe makes sense. On the other hand, if you are studying design or tech then it would seem to me like a more practical application of the skills you are learning would be a more prudent choice of a project. That may be finding a theatre company that will let you design a show or something along those lines that will really test and showcase everything that you have learned in school.

Almost every theatre person wants to design their own dream facility, but how much education will you get out of the purely hypothetical?


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## Mim (Aug 25, 2010)

*If you could build your ideal theatre...*

I know many people get to design a 'dream theatre' for school and some (like myself) experience venues with poor design, so I'd like some input: If you could design your ideal theatre what would it be (proscenium, thrust, round, black box, etc) and what would you include in the build? Would you permanently install traps, turn table, tension grid, pipe grid and catwalks, box booms, balcony, production spaces - or would you do something different (and what)? What accouterments do you currently have/love or what do you wish you had? What does your current space have that is more useless than useful? Any additional ideas, thoughts or concepts? Along with our administrative staff, I may be given the opportunity in the near future to interview consultants and firms for a new project - so I'd like input from as many sources as possible to help jog my memory (and fill in my list). *
*


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## derekleffew (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: If you could build your ideal theatre...*

Above post moved here from another location.


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## museav (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: If you could build your ideal theatre...*


Mim said:


> I know many people get to design a 'dream theatre' for school and some (like myself) experience venues with poor design, so I'd like some input: If you could design your ideal theatre what would it be (proscenium, thrust, round, black box, etc) and what would you include in the build? Would you permanently install traps, turn table, tension grid, pipe grid and catwalks, box booms, balcony, production spaces - or would you do something different (and what)? What accouterments do you currently have/love or what do you wish you had? What does your current space have that is more useless than useful? Any additional ideas, thoughts or concepts?


Read through some of the previous posts. You really should have a good understanding of the underlying goals, expectations and limitations before deciding on some of the aspects you noted. When I first start on a project it is not by asking the Client what kind of stage arrangement they want or if a turntable or tension grid is desired. It is by asking how they envision using the facility, what kinds of performances, events and functions they see wanting to support and so on. It is finding out what they envision as defining a successful result. It is also trying to differentiate needs from desires from wishful thinking so that if elements do have to be cut or deferred then you can do so logically.

This is also when you have parties performing work such as investigating site conditions, reviewing applicable codes, assessing existing parking, mechanical, electrical and other provisions and services.

Once the basis for design is known then you can start to work your way down into more detailed aspects of the possible solutions, always keeping in mind the "why" of what you do as well as the "what". This is where you may start defining the stage configuration(s), approach to rigging, conceptual seating and room layout, etc. This is also when it is important to have all the relevant parties involved as a decision here without input from all parties can come back to haunt you later.

This is not to say that someone defining any specific components, equipment, etc. may not occur early in the project, but these are best approached when they can be assessed as to how they fit the overall vision. One of the worst things as a designer is to have some parties defining specifics that conflict with the general goals defined.


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