# Job Title for a Sound "Person"



## mbenonis

What is the correct job title for a person who handles sound in a theatre? More specifically, someone who manages the sound equipment for a show, plans out and designs the sound cues, and mixes a show?


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## r0cko815

well, if u want to get all technical then BAH! i would jsut say "Sound Tech"; "Sound Techie";, "Sound Technician"; "Sound Guy"; "Hey dude with the cables and mics"; "techie"; "technician"; "Hey u"; "Hey, dude up in the booth slacking off"; "hey u, give me my mic"....yea, i think all of those work, haha. and in the case for lighting i would say, hmmm, i dunno, how bout "god" haha


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## mbenonis

There's a couple of gems in there.  "Hey, dude up in the booth slacking off".

However, I was looking for something a bit more, *ahem* important sounding, such as Sound Engineer or Sound Technician. Also, is it correct to call a theatre sound engineer a front-of-house sound engineer or am I using this term incorrectly?


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## ship

or squeek!


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## dj_illusions

In australia, we refer to the guy that sets up, patches and rings out a sound system as the "System Engineer" or "Sound Engineer" and the guy that operates the desk, if it isnt the other guy is just the "Sound Operator"


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## dmgproductions

Ok, dont get mad but you can not be called an Engineer anything until you have the Engineer degree, you can get in some trouble saying that you are a Sound Engineer when you have no degree for it. now Sound Technician is ok. just don't go around calling yourself a Sound Engineer until you have worked your butt off and earned the degree and right to call yourself that.

_____________
Derek Gaul
Sound Engineer/Owner
D.M.G. Productions
[email protected]


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## mbenonis

No offense taken; that's good information to know.


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## dj_illusions

Im a lighting engineer!


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## r0cko815

O yea mr lighting ENGINEER, well thats great for u and all, but im a TECHIE (YEAH) i do everything form lights to sound to construction to stage crew, but my favorite is lighting  , i like to be well rounded, so i can do more, its fun. and mbenonis1, i think ur title should be "squeek" (thanks for the idea ship) so squeek, thats ur new name, and btw that mac in the booth is leaving by september '04 at the latest.


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## Inaki2

There's the term Sound Designer, which is kinda weird, but it looks nice, and is more "honorary" thatn anything else.


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## RelativeMischief

However, if you INSIST on being called an 'Engineer', you probably don't deserve to be called one.


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## dj_illusions

I dont particuarly like been referred to as a "engineer" its merely a piece of paper, and what is a title... its open to many interpretations, if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a noise?

At work, my job title is "theatre technician" so meh i do sound and lighting and visual if it is needed!


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## blsmn

We break things down this way, and I've seen it done this way in a lot of major shows:

Sound Designer: Person who plans out and designs the overall sound for the show

Sound Board Operator: Person who runs the sound console and mixes the show

Sound Designer/Board Op: Person who would happen to do both

Same categories can be applied to lighting.


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## dmgproductions

Life is Great work hard go to collage work for the degree and they will give you a title.


_____________
Derek Gaul
D.M.G. Productions
[email protected]


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## cheyser

Generally the guy doing the sound where I work is call "The guy over there with the beer." But for the most part we are Audio Techs.


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## mr_sound

dmgproductions said:


> Ok, dont get mad but you can not be called an Engineer anything until you have the Engineer degree, you can get in some trouble saying that you are a Sound Engineer when you have no degree for it. now Sound Technician is ok. just don't go around calling yourself a Sound Engineer until you have worked your butt off and earned the degree and right to call yourself that.



haha, no offense, but i think that's bull. most of the best engineers i've ever worked with have no formal training. of course, i am talking about live sound, or concert sound, not theater sound....so you guys may have a different standard. in the concert business though....i think it's an unspoken rule that you're not really a sound engineer unless you've been doing sound for a while and really know your crap. of course, on a resume, or in front of a band's manager, you can call yourself the sound engineer....it's impressive. i always go by sound guy though....only my resume calls me an engineer.


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## DMXtools

dmgproductions said:


> Ok, dont get mad but you can not be called an Engineer anything until you have the Engineer degree, you can get in some trouble saying that you are a Sound Engineer when you have no degree for it. now Sound Technician is ok. just don't go around calling yourself a Sound Engineer until you have worked your butt off and earned the degree and right to call yourself that.



It kind-of depends on the field and jurisdiction and whether any licensing is involved.

I was given the title "Sr. Electronics Engineer" by an employer, despite the fact that I don't have a degree, on the basis of merit - I have a solo patent, was a contributor on several others, and was responsible for development of several profitable products. While my forte has always been electronic hardware, I know several software engineers who are quite successful sans sheepskin.

I don't want to imply that a degree means nothing. It's important as a gauge of a persons potential to do well in a field, but gives no indication that he or she will live up to that potential. In some cases, it's better at indicating a person's tolerance for rote memorization than it is at indicating any level of creativity or problem-solving skills. That depends to a large extent on the institution awarding the degree.

In some jurisdictions, on the other hand, a license is required before one is allowed to take the title. In most cases, a degree is a prerequisite for the license test. In my home state of Illinois, my employer could legally call me an Electronics Engineer. However, I'd need to complete at least a four-year degree and pass a pretty comprehensive test to earn a Professional Engineer's license - needed to find employment as a structural or civil engineer.


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## Mayhem

> I don't want to imply that a degree means nothing. It's important as a gauge of a persons potential to do well in a field, but gives no indication that he or she will live up to that potential. In some cases, it's better at indicating a person's tolerance for rote memorization than it is at indicating any level of creativity or problem-solving skills. That depends to a large extent on the institution awarding the degree.



This is why many courses are either in the process of becoming, or have become 'problem-based learning' (PBL) courses, rather than didactic lecture based. PBL has been around for several decades now after being introduced at McMaster in Canada in the 60's.

Would be interested to see if such styles of learning are employed in the theater tech courses.

Oh - an by the way, we use sound technician or sound engineer over here, but you can call me Sir 8)


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## The_Guest

FOH Engineer
MON Engineer
REC Engineer
Systems Tech/Engineer
Lav Tech
Stage Tech

and the god almighty...
***DESIGNER***


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## halojen

back at school it was me and my mate on sound.
thats it.
no seperate "MON Engineer" or any of that bollocks.
we were the sound guys.
nothing fancy, nothing 'we-love-ourselves-so-we-want-to-make-ourselves-sound-really-important' or anything like that.
just sound guys.

also.. i agree with the point that you cant call your self an "engineer" unless you have an ENGINEERING DEGREE.


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## MikeJM

*"sound person"*

A person who designs and plans out all of the sound would be a sound designer. Many different terms can be used, I guess it just depends on your theatre or where you run/design sound; wether it be recording studios, concert touring, or theatre. It is always nice to have a clear idea of your title and your responsibilites. I am currently working on a summer music theatre and I am the sound designer. I have been in contact with the head carpenter/technical director for the show for months now. Over this period of time, my idea of what my title was has changed often. It is always good to just ask what your title/responsibilites are (this is if your still a student of theatre, or live sound, or anything technical for that matter), that way you are not expected to do things that you don't do, or you take control of a situation that you werent designated to. I am dragging on and stressing this point to try and save some frustration from any fellow students of sound. It was only recently, when I confronted my T.D. I fully lived up to the title that was designated to me.
Cheers,
Mike M


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## Andy_Leviss

Inaki2 said:


> There's the term Sound Designer, which is kinda weird, but it looks nice, and is more "honorary" thatn anything else.



I'm not sure which is the more blatant piece of misinformation, this or the oft-repeated but incorrect bit about sound engineer as a title needing a degree behind it.

Let's take them one at a time. First, "sound designer". This is the person who designs the sound. He/she chooses placement of speakers, models of gear used (when not using a house system), chooses what music and effects gets played when and through which speakers at what levels during the show, and if the show involves reinforcement chooses the type of microphones used, where the microphones go, and directs the engineer how the show should be mixed. The sound designer does for sound exactly what a lighting designer does for lighting, basically. It is NOT just an honorary title, but an accurate description of a job that is, at least in most professional theatre, very much separate from the guy who actually runs the show.

Now, onto this engineer thing. There is no formal degree that one can get to earn the title of sound engineer. Most of the guys touring didn't even go to school, although more and more of us (myself included) did (I have a BFA from Emerson College in Theatre Design and Technology, concentrating in Sound Design). 

Looking into the rock world, there are very few schools that offer training in sound reinforcement, and many guys doing the hiring for tours actually prefer those who have learned in the real world over those who are schooled, because often what they learn in school isn't sufficient, but gives them the attitude that they know everything. Not a good thing (

Seriously, though, there's no formal degree and no formal body that gives a title of engineer to us. I'm not saying there oughtn't be one, because some of the guys out there working are truly awful, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

Among the definitions Merriam-Webster gives for the word engineer are the following two:


> a person who carries through an enterprise by skillful or artful contrivance




> a person who runs or supervises an engine or an apparatus



Both of these very much apply to those of us in the sound reinforcement profession.

That all said, here's a breakdown of the guys who work the show day-to-day:

Sound Operator.
This is a term generally used for somebody who runs playback cues of sound effects and music, but doesn't do any significant mixing of microphones/other live sources. This is common on plays.

Here's where things take a bit of a different turn between theatre and rock. First, rock:

FOH Sound Engineer
This is the guy out front mixing what the audience hears. Sometimes, on smaller shows, he will also do the monitor mix from FOH.

Monitor Engineer
This is the guy who mixes what the band hears through their monitor system, be they in-ears or wedges.

System Technician
This is the guy responsible for setting up and tuning the sound system to provide a consistent set of tools for the engineer to work with. Often there will be a monitor tech and a foh system tech, but not always. 

In rock, there usually is not a designer, the FOH engineer takes on this role.

Now, coming back to theatre, the titles change a bit.

Head Sound Engineer (often referred to as the A1, A for audio, 1 for head)
This is the FOH engineer. More often than not he'll be doing monitors from FOH. On smaller tours, he may be the only touring sound tech.

Assistant Sound Engineer (or A2)
This position can vary depending on the tour. If there are extensive monitor needs, the A2 will mix monitors backstage. The A2 is responsible for overseeing the wireless mics, from handing them out to the actors to troubleshooting them to handling mic changes if needed during the show. On a tour, he and the A1 will split the duties of setting things up on the load-in, each working with guys from the local crew to get their part of the show setup. On the last tour I A2ed, I was responsible for setting up the orchestra pit mics, the RF gear, and part of the onstage setup, while the A1 took care of the FOH speakers, FOH mix, and the rest of onstage. On some shows that are really large, you may have two A2s, one to mix monitors, one to act as mic tech, although this is rare.

There you go...some real world answers to these questions from somebody who actually makes his living doing this--I've done both regional and national theatre, tv broadcasts of varying scales, I spent much of the early part of this year as the A2 for the national tour of "The Full Monty", and am now the head sound engineer for one of the Sesame Street Live shows )

--Andy
Touring Sound Engineer
Member IATSE #260

P.S.-When you get into large live tv broadcasts, the A1 and A2 designations change a bit more but are basically the same--the A1 is the guy who mixes the broadcast, again being designer and engineer rolled into one in most cases, and the A2s are the technicians. Sometimes there are even A3s!


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## mbenonis

Andy, welcome to ControlBooth! It's nice to see you around here - I'm sure you will be a valuable asset to the community. By the way, how did you discover ControlBooth?


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## Andy_Leviss

Hey, Mike, nice to see a familiar name over here. I saw the link over on Roadie.net yesterday, and figured I'd check it out.

--A


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## mackoid101

Fader Jockey


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## PhantomD

Nice to see another old thread dug up.


dj_illusions said:


> In australia, we refer to the guy that sets up, patches and rings out a sound system as the "System Engineer" or "Sound Engineer" and the guy that operates the desk, if it isnt the other guy is just the "Sound Operator"



Do we?!

I think Sound Op or FOH Op is quite short, sweet and meaningful.

I've also been called a tonne of things that are too rude to be mentioned on here!  

Mixer operator is not unheard of in the more amateur circles.


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## jonhirsh

Usualy i have found this to be the hierarchy. 

Sound Dept.

Sound Designer 

1st asstiant (Mixing and helping the designer by creating content.)
2nd assitant (A2 is running mics backstage)
Board op (but is usualy the 1st assitant)


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## vlaho

How much creative can be "sound engineer" in theatre?
Who makes master cd for play? Is it creative job?


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## superuser2

I think Sound Op does not accurately describe what the sound person does - even if they aren't the designer, mixing is a very involved process and does include some artistic choices. As someone on CB said (or maybe it was another forum), sound mixing is about what sounds good, not what it was yesterday.

A person writing software who has a CS degree and a person writing software who doesn't are still doing the same task using the same skills and are still "software engineers" or "developers". Why shouldn't it be the same with sound?


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## museav

*Re: Job Title for a Sound %26quot%3BPerson%26quot%3B*

Quite a bit of misinformation here. The use of the term "engineer" is controlled by law and varies from state to state. The issue is not education or degree but licensing, Professional Engineers are licensed as such. In many cases the restricted use is specifically in reference to building and systems design that potentially relates to the health safety and welfare of the general public. Using Georgia's laws which I know best, as an example, if you are designing systems for installation then you probably only want to use "Engineer" in your title or claim to provide "engineering" or "engineered systems" if you are a properly licensed Engineer. Using the title "Engineer" in that situation could not only be illegal, and potentially result in claims for practicing without a license, but could imply significant liability that you do not want (there's a reason I carry $1,000,000 of Professional Liability Insurance in addition to General Commercial Liability coverage and do not typically offer "engineering" even though I am a PE). However, in Georgia there is a specific exemption for system operators, thus the person running the systems could be a "Sound Engineer" or "Audio Engineer". Other states have many variations on this, so check your state laws.

Going back to the original post, I think the range of activities noted is actually often represented by several titles. You could easily have a Sound Designer designing the show (which may include audio. live sound, music, vocals, etc.), an Audio Tech handling the audio equipment and an Audio Engineer or Sound Op mixing.

In case you didn't notice, I prefer the term "audio" when talking about the systems. "Sound" seems to also encompass singers, musicians, live effects and acoustics while "audio" relates to the systems. In addition, I have seen situations where it is difficult to know who is really being addressed when someone references the Sound Engineer, is it the audio system designer, the acoustician, the Sound Designer the Op or someone else?


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