# Dressing Cable?



## derekleffew (Dec 22, 2007)

What do you prefer to use to dress (affix) cable to a horizontal lighting position (pipe, batten, or truss)?


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## soundlight (Dec 22, 2007)

I voted Tie Line because I use that for everything at both places where I work at school, but if I'm buiilding a rig that's gonna be used over and over again (wiring a truss that will be carried from place to place pre-wired, for example), I use my endless supply of Zipties.


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## icewolf08 (Dec 22, 2007)

Tieline, 2 cubits in length (or more as needed), always. Tape would be too much of a hassle to undo. Two wraps around with a bow knot.


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## derekleffew (Dec 22, 2007)

icewolf08 said:


> ...Two wraps around with a bow knot.


How do you feel about those *cough*riggers*cough* who *insist* on a clove hitch, then finish with a bow knot?


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## soundman (Dec 22, 2007)

Tie line for anything that is not going to get set up again. E tape for anything that has to 'tour' even if that means just going down the road. That way there is no confusion to what cables need to get struck and what ones can ride with the set peice or truss.


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## avkid (Dec 22, 2007)

I love reusable Zip-Ties.


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## David Ashton (Dec 22, 2007)

I use mainly re-usable cable-ties, which I assume are zip ties.
This avoids the waste of time and money associated with gaffer tape.


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## Footer (Dec 22, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> How do you feel about those *cough*riggers*cough* who *insist* on a clove hitch, then finish with a bow knot?



I want to take them out back and shoot them. Kinda like the guy that ties opera knots everywhere.


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## Charc (Dec 22, 2007)

Footer4321 said:


> I want to take them out back and shoot them. Kinda like the guy that ties opera knots everywhere.



Again, lost.

Please explain?

(I should pick-up a knot book...)

Edit: Doesn't the backstage handbook have a knot section? I should read that...


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## Footer (Dec 23, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Again, lost.
> Please explain?
> (I should pick-up a knot book...)
> Edit: Doesn't the backstage handbook have a knot section? I should read that...



Opera knots are a kind of clove hitch that are used for tie-ing drops to battens. If you are in a very large house (30' to 50' trims) it is suggested you use opera knots on all of your drops because they hold better. Also, if you are flying your goods very fast you should use them. I am pretty sure the opera knot is in the backstage handbook. Many peopl will tie an opera knot at center and the offstage edge of all drops.


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## derekleffew (Dec 23, 2007)

The opera knot is not in the _Backstage Handbook_, at least I couldn't find it. I have always been of the belief that it's used to hide the batten, so that the top of the webbing is on the same level as the top of the pipe, as opposed to hanging below the pipe with the normal "shoelace knot." 

To me, an opera knot (also called "V" knot, or "vajayjay knot" (See _Oprah_, _The View_, or _Grey's Anatomy_, and I _hate_ that I know that) is: place the webbing of the drape at the top of the batten, take the two legs of the tieline over the batten and bring each up on either side of the two, between the pipe and the webbing, sort of forming a "V," tie an overhand knot at the webbing, then a bow, just like a shoelace. It's difficult to explain or visualize.

I'm thinking Footer and I are referring to two different knots, both called "Opera Knot."


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## Charc (Dec 23, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> The opera knot is not in the _Backstage Handbook_, at least I couldn't find it. I have always been of the belief that it's used to hide the batten, so that the top of the webbing is on the same level as the top of the pipe, as opposed to hanging below the pipe with the normal "shoelace knot."
> To me, an opera knot (also called "V" knot, or "vajayjay knot" (See _Oprah_ or _Grey's Anatomy_, and I _hate_ that I know that) is: place the webbing of the drape at the top of the batten, take the two legs of the tieline over the batten and bring each up on either side of the two, between the pipe and the webbing, sort of forming a "V," tie an overhand knot at the webbing, then a bow, just like a shoelace. It's difficult to explain or visualize.
> I'm thinking Footer and I are referring to two different knots, both called "Opera Knot.



Perhaps you are thinking of the _Oprah_ Knot?

Thanks for your input though, Derek. I will definitely be checking the Backstage Handbook though.


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## derekleffew (Dec 23, 2007)

charcoaldabs, please do check the _Backstage Handbook_. In the Index, you'll find:
opera netting, p. 142
operating gallery, p. 265
operating line, p. 265

No Opera or Oprah Knots anywhere. Do they call it an Opry Knot in Nashville? Do we have anyone from Nashville, TN, on here?


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## cutlunch (Dec 23, 2007)

Although I haven't used them for a while my favourite is the inner tubing and dowling method.


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## gafftaper (Dec 23, 2007)

There are only a few basic knots in the Hand Book. Check out this site to learn some basic knots. 

As for the question of the thread, I've always used Tie Line. However for the new theater I've ordered a bunch of these from Rip-tie. My theory is strategically placed around the catwalks, I'll always have a Velcro strap nearby... cutting back on the amount of tie line I'll need. I'm going to run a zip tie through that mounting hole to make them easy to reposition if I feel the need.


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## Sean (Dec 23, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> How do you feel about those *cough*riggers*cough* who *insist* on a clove hitch, then finish with a bow knot?



I'm one of those guys.

When you might end up in a situation where someone has to walk a batten, or trussing, etc, possibly in the (nearly) dark. The last thing you need is a cable bundle giving way as you step on it.

It doesn't take that much more energy to tie or untie. It's more secure. And hey, when you're running multiple pieces of mult in a bundle, it's easier to tie to the pipe by yourself.

I'm not talking about "one night" type shows here. When I put in a show at work, it stays there for ~2-3 months.

--Sean


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## icewolf08 (Dec 23, 2007)

gafftaper said:


> As for the question of the thread, I've always used Tie Line. However for the new theater I've ordered a bunch of these from Rip-tie. My theory is strategically placed around the catwalks, I'll always have a Velcro strap nearby... cutting back on the amount of tie line I'll need. I'm going to run a zip tie through that mounting hole to make them easy to reposition if I feel the need.


It is funny that you mention the expense of tieline. The scene shop in my theatre only uses black tieline for situations where it might be seen. Other than that they only use jute. Why? It is cheaper to buy Jute. So, before I started working here the electricians also used jute. This seemed like a fundamental flaw. The Jute could really only handle being tied once or maybe twice, meaning that in general every piece of jute had to be replaced every other show.

So, for $99 I buy a 1000yd roll of black tieline and as long as you pay attention and save the pieces as to take things down it will last a very long time. So far this season we have cut tieline off the roll once at the top of the season, and ave not needed to touch the roll since. Seems to me that my way is more economical, though I have not priced out the jute for comparison, just by the number of rolls that the shop uses and the amount of waste generated I would imagine I come out on top.


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## len (Dec 23, 2007)

Voted for velcro because there's always one on the cable, but we typically use e-tape for the rest. I think it's faster & cheaper than tie line.


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## Grog12 (Dec 23, 2007)

Sean said:


> I'm one of those guys.
> When you might end up in a situation where someone has to walk a batten, or trussing, etc, possibly in the (nearly) dark. The last thing you need is a cable bundle giving way as you step on it.
> It doesn't take that much more energy to tie or untie. It's more secure. And hey, when you're running multiple pieces of mult in a bundle, it's easier to tie to the pipe by yourself.
> I'm not talking about "one night" type shows here. When I put in a show at work, it stays there for ~2-3 months.
> --Sean



I'm a Clove Hitch person too. For the same reasons as Sean.


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## wolf825 (Dec 23, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> The opera knot is not in the _Backstage Handbook_, at least I couldn't find it. I have always been of the belief that it's used to hide the batten, so that the top of the webbing is on the same level as the top of the pipe, as opposed to hanging below the pipe with the normal "shoelace knot."
> To me, an opera knot (also called "V" knot, or "vajayjay knot" (See _Oprah_, _The View_, or _Grey's Anatomy_, and I _hate_ that I know that) is: place the webbing of the drape at the top of the batten, take the two legs of the tieline over the batten and bring each up on either side of the two, between the pipe and the webbing, sort of forming a "V," tie an overhand knot at the webbing, then a bow, just like a shoelace. It's difficult to explain or visualize.
> I'm thinking Footer and I are referring to two different knots, both called "Opera Knot."


Yes what you describe is an Opera Knot...used to hide battons but also when drops and fly space is limited.. It ensures the drop does not sag or is tied loose ..ties it real tight not uneven on a batton. 
As I understand from an old tour guy (older than me) where the term came from--it was a knot originally used in Opera Houses in Europe--many tours would tie on their legs and drops over house goods--so the house would tie their goods with the opera knot and the tour goods with a regular overhand knot--when they would go to pull the ties it was easier to distinguish. Additionally--many opera houses are tall in fly space cause many operas have very tall drops--and sometimes every inch counted to hide the battons on some shorter drops... least that is what I was told once... Whether its right or not for the history of it--don't know....I know how to tie em...I like it for securely tieing things that get a lot of play and I know they won't move or come undone (snow bags, house legs which may get tugged on or hung on etc). holds the weight real well... 


These are a fun toy too since folks are asking how others secure stuff to battons...these are a carry over from Grips and movie/film work... Called "Matth Ties"--yes two "T's"... from Matthews Studio Equipment...they are finding their way into theater and production for doing things like west-coasting drops and hanging temp stuff etc etc... Basically its a plastic clip and a 2' piece of tieline (but it can be any length...)( you feed it thru the hole and pull back and it snaps the tie line into a lock and thats it... pretty cool toy...


http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Rope-Tie-Line/B6090.aspx 


http://www.filmtools.com/ma12.html

-w


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## Van (Dec 23, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> How do you feel about those *cough*riggers*cough* who *insist* on a clove hitch, then finish with a bow knot?


That's the way I always dress cable. It's a habit I got into in production houses a long time ago. I also do "Opera-Ties" on soft goods.


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## Sparkinium (Dec 24, 2007)

I've always been taught to do the clove hitch then a bow knot. Sometimes the fools who cut the tie line didn't cut it long enough, and then the most fun thing ever is to do a bow knot with half an inch of tie line.

I bet that's your favorite thing ever too.


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## derekleffew (Dec 24, 2007)

Sparkinium said:


> ...Sometimes the fools who cut the tie line didn't cut it long enough, and then the most fun thing ever is to do a bow knot with half an inch of tie line...


Hence Icewolf08's
*"Two Cubits Or Longer"*​rule, which should be engraved in stone somewhere. Scrimping on tieline is actually more wasteful, and not re-using it is a sin on par with gluttony.​


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## BillESC (Dec 24, 2007)

Tie-line with the clove hitch. That's how I was taught when installing the soft goods at the RKO Twin Cinema's on 86th street in NYC. That was back in 1971.


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## Stoldal (Dec 28, 2007)

I like to use tie line, but i also you zip ties for cable that are going to be up for a longer time. But when using zip ties you have to be careful.


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## Charc (Dec 28, 2007)

Mstoldal said:


> I like to use tie line, but i also you zip ties for cable that are going to be up for a longer time. But when using zip ties you have to be careful.



Why? (I'm not sure I've heard that.)


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## drawstuf99 (Dec 28, 2007)

I've always used tie-line. Gaff tape? I have come close to chucking things at people for it. Worse, though, is duct tape. Electrical tape, too, sometimes. Nobody likes going up hanging their instruments to find sticky residue all over the pipe or the pigtails...

Funny story, I saw a guy get his hand stuck in a zip-tie. How? I have no idea, but boy it was funny.


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## derekleffew (Dec 28, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Mstoldal said:
> 
> 
> > I like to use tie line, but i also you zip ties for cable that are going to be up for a longer time. But when using zip ties you have to be careful.
> ...


One of the problems with using zip ties is that if not installed with the proper tool, (yes, ANOTHER tool for your wishlist!), they can have very sharp edges. DO NOT just cut off the "tails" with a pair of diagonal cutters, a sure way to draw blood! If you don't have this tool, or similar, better to NOT cut off the tail. The "ZipTie Gun" (near bottom of the linked page) pulls the tail under tension before cutting it, so that the sharp edges recede into the locking mechanism once cut.


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## Charc (Dec 28, 2007)

I've never cut myself on a zip-tie before... see Derek... you aren't _supposed_ to punch your dressed cable. Maybe that's why you got cut?

<On a serious note I'm thinking of the one time I used zip-ties in theatre. 1 Charc Point to anyone who can pinpoint the reason why we HAD to cut the tails.>


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## derekleffew (Dec 28, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> I've never cut myself on a zip-tie before...


Then you haven't worked in this industry long enough.


charcoaldabs said:


> ...<On a serious note I'm thinking of the one time I used zip-ties in theatre. 1 Charc Point to anyone who can pinpoint the reason why we HAD to cut the tails.>


Because they were obstructing something.


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## Charc (Dec 28, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> Because they were obstructing something.



BUZZ! Sorry, wrong.


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## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2007)

The last couple years I've been hired to help load in for a traveling production of Nutcracker. These people are hardcore believers in the e-tape. It seemed like a huge waste to me. Yes I can see times it's nice for wrapping a bunch of cable tight (like when running a bunch of lines up a boom when there will be a lot of people around). But it's one use and throw it away and the residue it'll leave after a long run is nasty. Give me tie line any day. Like Icewolf said, you can reuse it a long time.

_Standbye Rimshot._ I prefer my cable dressed in a little red something from Victoria's Secret or better yet nothing at all. _Rimshot go._ Sorry couldn't keep that in any longer.


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## thelightguy87 (Dec 28, 2007)

We use Gaff for anything on the deck, but tieline for anything on a pipe, or coiling cables, unless they have the velcro on them already. Our equipment manager makes sure every cable either has velcro or tieline on the end so you can tie it and put it in the trunk, and we have buckets of tieline in different thicknesses cut to 2' long. It's a good system.

the knots...we use square bows to tie drops and soft goods, if we are rigging with cable, we use clove with a circus hitch instead of a half hitch to complete it. But if we are using tieline to lift or hang anything, we use clove with one or two half hitches.


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## derekleffew (Dec 28, 2007)

thelightguy87 said:


> We use Gaff for anything on the deck, but tieline for anything on a pipe, or coiling cables, unless they have the velcro on them already. Our equipment manager makes sure every cable either has velcro or *tieline on the end* so you can tie it and put it in the trunk, and we have buckets of tieline in different thicknesses *cut to 2' long*. It's a good system.
> 
> the knots...we use square bows to tie drops and soft goods, if we are rigging with cable, we use clove with a *circus hitch* instead of a half hitch to complete it. But if we are using tieline to lift or hang anything, we use clove with one or two half hitches.


Tieline/Velcro on the FEMALE end, correct?

I think 2' is too short, thus the "2cubits or Longer" (36") rule.

Link or explanation of "circus hitch"? Nevermind, did it myself. I thought that was called a "Foy knot" or something similar. I remember hearing Bill Sapsis say something to the effect of "The only people who should be allowed to tie knots in aircraft cable are the Foy people."


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## wolf825 (Dec 28, 2007)

gafftaper said:


> The last couple years I've been hired to help load in for a traveling production of Nutcracker. These people are hardcore believers in the e-tape. It seemed like a huge waste to me. Yes I can see times it's nice for wrapping a bunch of cable tight (like when running a bunch of lines up a boom when there will be a lot of people around). But it's one use and throw it away and the residue it'll leave after a long run is nasty. Give me tie line any day. Like Icewolf said, you can reuse it a long time.
> _Standbye Rimshot._ I prefer my cable dressed in a little red something from Victoria's Secret or better yet nothing at all. _Rimshot go._ Sorry couldn't keep that in any longer.



I've seen the e-tape fanatics get popular around here....I hate it for all the reasons you just said. (I also hate the nutcracker cause I do the show ever year--but thats another story) 

Give me tieline please...if techs cannot be bothered to tie a proper knot, then I sure do not want them hanging a plot and cutting other corners too.."oh-who needs to tighten the c-clamps--thumb tight will do just fine...and i'll secure it instead of with a safety chain with some e-tape..".. blaaaah...laziness.

-w


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## btswift (Mar 6, 2009)

Tie Line or Zip ties but they are harder to remove and can not be reused.


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## iLightTheStage (Mar 7, 2009)

Sean said:


> When you might end up in a situation where someone has to walk a batten, or trussing, etc, possibly in the (nearly) dark. The last thing you need is a cable bundle giving way as you step on it.
> --Sean



Why the hell are you walking Battens??


icewolf08 said:


> Other than that they only use jute. Why? It is cheaper to buy Jute. So, before I started working here the electricians also used jute.



Gahhh, Jute is evil. Don't believe me? Tie one over head high while looking at what you are doing. And good luck with your black clothes staying Black the rest of the day... they end up looking like you were rolling around with 100 cats.


Stoldal said:


> But when using zip ties you have to be careful.



When I used to do a lot of tent gigs and we needed to run socapex up the roof seams to the poles we hung lights from, we'd use Zip Ties. Man did that make strike fast. A really strong snap of the cable, and you've got the whole thing off the tent in under 5 seconds... which also explains why you have to be careful when using them.




Overall, anything in the air, I prefer tie-line... usually cut by spinning it around a milk crate and then cut in one spot. 

I hate E-tape which is often used here for one-offs for several reasons: 
1) you have to buy a TON of rolls, 
2) black e-tape never looks good on silver truss, 
3) when you need to move a circuit, you have to bring another cable because otherwise you have to break e-tape every foot and re-tape it all, 
4) for strike, you're pretty much forced to use a blade... increasing a chance of damaging cable,
5) Tape Foot (increasing your height slowly across strike as all of the tape collects on your shoes)... one time, driving home, I got stuck to my gas pedal because of tape foot.

Also, Gaff Tape should never be used to secure cable in the air... it is meant to rip easily... a VERY bad quality for holding something like a cable from falling.


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## Sayen (Mar 7, 2009)

Regarding some of the earlier posts, I've never thought of tie-line as expensive. We save it after a show, but I don't lose sleep over lost bits, and I'm perfectly happy to use it in disposable situations. I'd rather burn through a roll of tie-line, which is easy to clean up later, than rolls of gaff.

iLightTheStage said:


> Overall, anything in the air, I prefer tie-line... usually cut by spinning it around a milk crate and then cut in one spot.


Great idea...I tend to hate measuring and cutting line, and that's perfect.


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## willbb123 (Mar 7, 2009)

I voted before I read... 
Gaff tape on the ground, tieline on battens.
I always leave enough slack on the cables so if the instruments need to be refocused you dont have to untie...


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## Esoteric (Mar 8, 2009)

We were always instructed to leave enough tail to be able to focus the unit 180 in the opposite direction if necessary. I thought this was fairly standard.

Mike


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## willbb123 (Mar 8, 2009)

It should be common sense... But I've worked with people who always tie it as tight as they cam.


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## Esoteric (Mar 8, 2009)

Wow, that is electrics 101. Right after how to hang a unit right side up.

Mike


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## DarSax (Mar 8, 2009)

I'm in a suspension grid space, and just this year came up with leaving tie line on the pipes (2 lengths per 5' section), so that when we run cables, the tie line is already there. Its hard to describe textually, but the line is never untied from the pipe--the knot leaves plenty of tie line so you can just tie the cable on top of the tie line looped around the pipe.

I know I wasn't the first to think of it (it's surely even common practice in some spaces, probably especially those with battens. I've probably even read of it before, maybe even in this thread.), but, I mean, I love it and it's just so darned efficient.


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## marshmolly123 (Mar 10, 2009)

Tie line, for sure. Gaff tape and electrical tape are way too permanent, not to mention wasteful and expensive. Zip ties sound doable for a more permanent rig, but at my high school theater, nothing's particularly permanent. Velcro ties sound confusing to me, overly complicated! I'll take good old fashioned tie line any day! It's quick, simple, cheap, and reuseable!


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## sk8rsdad (Mar 10, 2009)

I have been trying to find a picture on the web of the ties we use but haven't had any luck, and can't remember the brand name. They are basically about 18" of sash cord with a plastic guy line cleat on one end. Wrap them around the cables and pipe twice, stuff the open end through the clip and tug tight to lock. Tug free to unlock.


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## mrb (Mar 10, 2009)

tie line all the way, with one exception

on pre rigged pieces that tour, electrical tape -but only 3M 33+ anything else leaves gunk on the pipe/truss and cable.

I have always avoided zip ties, tie wraps, etc, as people end up getting cut on the sharp edge left when trimmed to length.

On the few occasions where tie wraps were absolutely necessary, it gets a couple wraps of 33+ over it to cover the sharp edge.

anyone who thinks im nuts, just wait until you slice the palm of your hand open on a trimmed zip tie while tipping up a loaded truss arch.


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## derekleffew (Mar 10, 2009)

mrb said:


> ...anyone who thinks im nuts, just wait until you slice the palm of your hand open on a trimmed zip tie while tipping up a loaded truss arch.


I doubt anyone thinks you're nuts. I will only allow zip ties to be installed with the proper tool. 


Zip Ties, Cable Ties & Cable Tie Guns

I think I own three, of various brands and qualities. Even the least expensive is better than diagonal cutters; or even worse, a multi-tool for cutting the tails.


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## cdub260 (Mar 10, 2009)

I fall in the it depends category on this one.

On my electrics I usually use tie line unless, like my DMX runs the cable is likely to stay in place a year or more. Then I use zip ties.

Out in the amphitheatre, I use exclusively zip ties. The sun and the weather do bad things to tie line in the three or four months I have my cables attached to my lighting trusses.

When other groups use my facilities, they're free to use whatever method they like with the understanding that if they use tape, they will strike every piece. That said, I am perfectly willing to provide them with either tie line or zip ties from my Pageant stock, so most choose one of those two methods.

On my smaller stage, I use tie line exclusively.


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## achstechdirector (Mar 21, 2009)

I use tie line for truss, gaff tape on ground, and zipties/e tape for anything that the audience can see. Most of the lines the audience can see on truss are permanent so it is easier. One thing I hate, a local community theatre unplugs their unused instruments but leaves them hung, their cord hangs down (EVEN IN THE HOUSE) and the ceilings are so low that (to me) the cords are distracting UGG I hate lazy people. Tie them up or something.


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 29, 2009)

sk8rsdad said:


> I have been trying to find a picture on the web of the ties we use but haven't had any luck, and can't remember the brand name. They are basically about 18" of sash cord with a plastic guy line cleat on one end. Wrap them around the cables and pipe twice, stuff the open end through the clip and tug tight to lock. Tug free to unlock.



Necro-posting because I finally got the name and found an image of the ties we use. The street price is significantly less than MSRP:

Matthews Matth-Ties


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## mstaylor (Aug 1, 2009)

Batten, truss or anything that isn't on the floor gets tieline. I do a many touring groups that use tieline in boatloads and then discarrds it. I will collect it after loadout. I'm a clove, bow tie guy myself. I use taughtline hitches to adjust sound clusters. Cloves with halves to tie cable back. I use theatre ties to hand draps. I have never seen a need to use mechanical devices to asist me in knot tieing.


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## Dsotm75 (Mar 27, 2010)

*Tying cable off*

There is something that I am wondering about...

What is the preferred method of tying cable off a the end of a pipe/batten/electric? The couple ways that I have seen include:


tying cable with just tie line and running it off the pipe
tying a half hitch in the cable at the end of the pipe, and tying tie line on the onstage side of the half hitch
tying a half hitch in the cable at the end of the pipe, and tying tie line on BOTH sides of the half hitch

What thoughts do you guys have? I've always wondered if I've been tying cable off wrong or not


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## Anvilx (Mar 27, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

I usually just use tieline.


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## xander (Mar 27, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

For me it depends on the cable. If it is a single piece of data or something small like that, I'll just use tie line. If it is a few pieces of 12/3 SO or a multi, I use the half-hitch and tie line method. If it is a whole bundle of multis or something of similar weight, I like to use a web cinched on the bundle and then clove-hitched to the pipe, and some tie line on the onstage side of the webbing, for good measure.

-Tim


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## venuetech (Mar 27, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

double ditto 

xander said:


> For me it depends on the cable. If it is a single piece of data or something small like that, I'll just use tie line. If it is a few pieces of 12/3 SO or a multi, I use the half-hitch and tie line method. If it is a whole bundle of multis or something of similar weight, I like to use a web cinched on the bundle and then clove-hitched to the pipe, and some tie line on the onstage side of the webbing, for good measure.
> 
> -Tim


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## NevilleLighting (Mar 28, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

I prefer your third method, with tie line on both sides. I prefer that the cable have the maximum amount of friction against the pipe to reduce slippage. I agree with Xander that it is a situational question. 

Some things I keep in mind...
-The pick point offstage MUST be in line with the batten. 
-The cable swag must be long enough to not pull the batten off center.
-The cable swag would ideally let the pipe come to the deck for lamp maintenance.
-The swag clears any moving scenery when the pipe is in its playing position. 
-The cable swag should not clothesline any actors, crew or, most importantly, the guy that signs your check.


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## MarshallPope (Mar 28, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

For data cable and the like, we usually just make a loop and then use a wrap of gaff tape. For soca, it's usually just a half hitch around the lift point. I'm not sure of the underlying reasoning, but it's what we do...


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## Dsotm75 (Mar 28, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

Thanks guys for your input! I know that this seems like a trivial kind of thing to ask...but I have worked with people who have literally screamed at me for using a half hitch to tie cable off...ridiculous? Yes.

But now I have a related question...Is there an accepted method to tie cable off going to a pipe? 

In my space, we have decks on either side of our stage where we run cable from our floor pockets up to various electrics. When I tie cable off to go out to an electric or from a floor pocket, I lower the cable down to the electric...and when there's enough slack, I pinch the cable to make a loop about 5 inches in diameter, and I tie the loop so that it goes around the midrail, and it's tied with tie line. 

My biggest question is that is this going to hurt the cable in the long run? If it does, what other method should I use to tie my cables off to our decks?

Once again, Thanks guys


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## JD (Mar 28, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

Sharp bends are a no-no. When you think of the structure inside a multi, you can see how a few conductors are pulled real tight. A 30 degree bend coming off a pipe is ok, but I see these 90's and I cringe. The problem gets worse the closer to the connector you get. I've seen Veam's* fail where the pins actually pull back out of the connector boot. 12/3 SO can take this much better, and data lines are not much of a problem, but the multis can acquire accumulative damage to the point where you may have dead circuits. Coming off a truss, I try to tie off the top frame a couple of feet in, then tie off the bottom at the end, breaking things up so there is 45 or less at each bend. 

*= Older style, with the rubber boot inside.


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## mstaylor (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: Tying cable off*

I either use tieline or spansets on a pick from a pipe. If I am picking a cable for a swag it is either a clove and a half or a spanset. If I am tieing along the pipe it straight tieline bows or E tape as per the show's wishes. 
Just remember to never tie a knot with the wire itself.


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## chris325 (Mar 29, 2010)

I'm surprised at how few people chose velcro. Cordlox work great for relatively short lengths of cable along a pipe, and if it's long enough gaff tape or tie line, whichever happens to be closer. And I can't comprehend how gaff tape would break under the weight of cable if it's wrapped around a few times. I understand that it's manufactured to rip easily, but that's at the edge. I wouldn't trust it to hold a S4 in the air, but it could probably keep a 2x4 at least.


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## briancon7 (Mar 29, 2010)

I have seen a picture of a S4 being held up with gaff. Who ever decided to do that is an idiot.


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## MaddieNevins (Mar 29, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> How do you feel about those *cough*riggers*cough* who *insist* on a clove hitch, then finish with a bow knot?



I'm an electrician who insists on a clove hitch finished with a bow tie when I'm dressing cable  I just think that it holds and dresses the cable very nicely. It's also less likely to slip than just using a bow tie know- especially when you have a large bundle to secure to a pipe.


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## Scarrgo (Mar 30, 2010)

Tieline is way to go (unwaxed) clove hitch is the only way for me and if I am making a bundle I like to use that good old fashin friction tape. no goo no mess(unless you dont like tar on your hand from ripping it), and when your done, you can rip it off...

Sean...

P.S. hate e-tape or spike tape used on the rail for spike...drives me crazy(short trip)


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