# Deadly truck crash on Bay Bridge kills tollworker



## derekleffew (Dec 2, 2017)

Look what was inside:



From http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/...d-in-crash-at-Bay-12400452.php#photo-14639595 :

> Williams said the truck was filled with what he described as lighting or sound equipment. After hitting the five other vehicles, it plowed through the barrier in front of the toll booth for Lane 15, on the north side of the plaza, and smashed into the booth itself.


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## JohnD (Dec 2, 2017)

Here are a couple of snips from another channel:


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## SteveB (Dec 2, 2017)

5AM. Not hard to imagine a late night load out and needing to be somewhere else at 8, then falls asleep at the wheel. 

Sad.


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## Footer (Dec 2, 2017)

That day when you wish your companies logo wasn't on everything.... 

Sad to hear. That truck looks like a can opener was taken to it.


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## Mac Hosehead (Dec 2, 2017)

SteveB said:


> 5AM. Not hard to imagine a late night load out and needing to be somewhere else at 8, then falls asleep at the wheel.
> 
> Sad.



In this case, the driver has been arrested for DUI.

Footer said:


> That day when you wish your companies logo wasn't on everything....
> 
> Sad to hear. That truck looks like a can opener was taken to it.



Monarch is a popular truck rental business in the area.


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## Footer (Dec 2, 2017)

Mac Hosehead said:


> Monarch is a popular truck rental business in the area.



Was commenting more on the 4-wall cases.


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## josh88 (Dec 2, 2017)

Mac Hosehead said:


> In this case, the driver has been arrested for DUI.


hard to believe looking at that picture there would be anything left of him to arrest.


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## Mac Hosehead (Dec 2, 2017)

josh88 said:


> hard to believe looking at that picture there would be anything left of him to arrest.


The cab does not look in too bad of shape but reports are the driver was ejected. I don't want to think of what happened to the toll-taker. Pictures show the rest of the booth down the road. The driver was local and I thought I had heard his name before. I have a feeling that this gear was rented and picked up from 4 Wall.


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## Amiers (Dec 2, 2017)

Be interesting to see the video.


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## techieman33 (Dec 3, 2017)

Amiers said:


> Be interesting to see the video.



Here you go


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## Amiers (Dec 3, 2017)

You would have to be 3 sheets to the wind to not stop at a lit up till plaza. 

It didn’t look like he even tried to slow down or was swerving. I vote asleep the wheel.


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## JohnD (Dec 3, 2017)

There is this from youtube:


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## JD (Dec 3, 2017)

Amiers said:


> You would have to be 3 sheets to the wind to not stop at a lit up till plaza.
> 
> It didn’t look like he even tried to slow down or was swerving. I vote asleep the wheel.


Asleep and drunk are not mutually exclusive. I suspect both.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 3, 2017)

JD said:


> Asleep and drunk are not mutually exclusive. I suspect both.


Looks like you could add some marijuana.

Pretty tragic, and not good for stage hand image.


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## SteveB (Dec 3, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Looks like you could add some marijuana.
> 
> Pretty tragic, and not good for stage hand image.



It’s not unusual for the LEO’s to simply state “DUI suspected” and to discover after that no DUI was the cause. Thus I wouldn’t be jumping to conclusions. The driver might simply have fallen asleep, given that it was 5 AM.


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## Amiers (Dec 3, 2017)

ESP if he was helping load out. Nobody has time to drink.


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## JohnD (Dec 4, 2017)

Since the driver was ejected from the truck and seriously injured they couldn't have done a field sobriety test. The suspected of DUI and manslaughter could have been to trigger blood tests.
If he had worked load in, the show, load out and then driven there is the issue of CDL vs non CDL standards. Hopefully more facts will become available.


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## Amiers (Dec 4, 2017)

I just finished a load out that lasted til 430am. I can tell ya driving home was a pita. So glad I live 10 mins from the venue.


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## JohnD (Dec 4, 2017)

One thing working against the driver is that he seems to have several facebook pages, his "worker bee" page and his "party animal" page.


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## MNicolai (Dec 4, 2017)

JohnD said:


> One thing working against the driver is that he seems to have several facebook pages, his "worker bee" page and his "party animal" page.



Or that he killed someone.

The sentencing is different in a court of law but in the court of public opinion people don't distinguish between someone who fell asleep at the wheel from someone who was driving drunk.


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## SteveB (Dec 4, 2017)

MNicolai said:


> Or that he killed someone.
> 
> The sentencing is different in a court of law but in the court of public opinion people don't distinguish between someone who fell asleep at the wheel from someone who was driving drunk.



I don't think that's true. There's an assumption that before you start drinking or taking drugs, there's a decision to do so and at that point it's expected that an adult can make the correct choice knowing the potential outcome.

Not the same with a tired worker, does an 8-12 hr. gig, gets in the truck and needs to drive it someplace. No decision to be made about "my actions are going to make me fall asleep". It's not as clear cut as knowing the results of drinking alcohol.

As well and as discovered with 2 NYC area commuter rail crashes, sleep apnea can go completely undiagnosed and a result a person is more prone to nod off when they otherwise think they are OK. Can't say if that's the case here.


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## Amiers (Dec 4, 2017)

MNicolai said:


> Or that he killed someone.
> 
> The sentencing is different in a court of law but in the court of public opinion people don't distinguish between someone who fell asleep at the wheel from someone who was driving drunk.



If someone killed me because they had got over worked I would be more inclined to forgive them versus if they got hammered and did so. 

But all speculation. We should wait for the rest of the information.


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## MNicolai (Dec 4, 2017)

Intently working long hours and electing in a conscious decision to drive yourself home or onto the next gig is not the same as experiencing an undiagnosed medical condition. That's a failure of you and/or your employer to plan responsibly.

The tendency for our industry to have a "It's not so bad -- it comes with the territory" attitude toward it is a grave blind spot for an otherwise safety-conscious industry.

I'm not kicking this hornet's nest because I'm assuming what happened to this truck driver. I'm bringing it up because it's a expectation for stagehands across the industry to make life-changing decisions after extraordinarily long shifts for days in a row at sometimes weeks at a time.

I'm tired of seeing bus and truck shows where the driver is working the show all day pounding back Red Bulls before he does the load-out and gets on the road at midnight for a 200mi jaunt to the next stop before the next morning's load-in.


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## GreyWyvern (Dec 4, 2017)

All the gear was indeed 4Wall's, but it was sub-rented, so not their job, truck, or driver.


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## StradivariusBone (Dec 4, 2017)

MNicolai said:


> I'm tired of seeing bus and truck shows where the driver is working the show all day pounding back Red Bulls before he does the load-out and gets on the road at midnight for a 200mi jaunt to the next stop before the next morning's load-in.



Last night was the first time since Wednesday that I got more than 5 hours of sleep. It's not just bus and truck, sometimes it's just the nature of how the schedule goes down for us being a venue that operates a lot in the evening. I was so tired the other night driving home I seriously considered stopping and taking a nap in my car, and I know I'm not an outlier. 3 15 hour days in a row followed by an 8 hour stint at the PT gig. I just don't think we're ever going to see a change in that part of the job as much as it would make sense. You're not at all wrong as sleep deprivation's effect on cognitive abilities is highly documented.

And for the record it's Diet Coke/Zero and Folgers that fuels this tech. Don't much care for the other energy drinks.


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## MNicolai (Dec 4, 2017)

You want to talk about impaired cognitive abilities? I was doing my grocery shopping the other night and got home to discover the coffee beans I purchased were _DECAF_.

They've gotta fire whatever manager allows decaf to be stocked right next to the good stuff. I don't understand how anyone in the process of shopping for coffee can be reasonably expected to navigate a minefield that's such a sorry excuse for an Aisle #11.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 4, 2017)

StradivariusBone said:


> Last night was the first time since Wednesday that I got more than 5 hours of sleep. It's not just bus and truck, sometimes it's just the nature of how the schedule goes down for us being a venue that operates a lot in the evening. I was so tired the other night driving home I seriously considered stopping and taking a nap in my car, and I know I'm not an outlier. 3 15 hour days in a row followed by an 8 hour stint at the PT gig. I just don't think we're ever going to see a change in that part of the job as much as it would make sense. You're not at all wrong as sleep deprivation's effect on cognitive abilities is highly documented.
> 
> And for the record it's Diet Coke/Zero and Folger's that fuels this tech. Don't much care for the other energy drinks.


@StradivariusBone In all seriousness. Between the front seats of both vehicles I kept a B&W laser printed 8.5" x 11" sign to toss on my dash advising any / all passers by "Napping. Too tired to drive. Alarm set". The glove boxes of both vehicles contained a small NOISY travel alarm. When in need. I'd pull well off the road in a parking lot, somewhere other than under a highway overpass, toss the sign on the dash, set the alarm and sit it on the dash or the passenger bucket seat. Recline my seat and toss my hard-hat over my eyes to keep the early morning sun out. I can attest to two occasions when I should have done so sooner, damaged my own vehicles and taught myself taking a nap is a better alternative. I could elaborate further but I suspect there's no need. Even us annoying total abstainers can, and have, fallen asleep while driving. 'nough said. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard.


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## TimMc (Dec 4, 2017)

Amiers said:


> If someone killed me because they had got over worked I would be more inclined to forgive them versus if they got hammered and did so.
> 
> But all speculation. We should wait for the rest of the information.



Driving without sleep is just as much of a decision as driving after consuming alcohol and has very similar results. There's a reason for Hours of Service regulations for drivers and why there's a whole passel of lawyers that make their living suing truck drivers and trucking companies that permit or require over-drives.

I had a Tennessee trooper ask for my "other log book" at a weight station. I told he I had only 1 log book and she smiled and replied "It worked on the driver 3 trucks ahead of you.. he was falling asleep while I was talking to him."


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## MNicolai (Dec 4, 2017)

Hours of Service is serious business. That Walmart driver who plowed into Tracy Morgan’s limo and killed one guy was indicted for vehicular homicide and aggravated manslaughter. Could’ve faced 30 years in prison. He was “lucky” to plead guilty down to no time served, 3 years pretrial intervention program, and an undisclosed but probably 7- or 8-figure settlement from Walmart; if you call living with blood on your hands “lucky.”

Also gotta remember in his case it wasn’t a straight violation of Hours of Service. It was his decision to drive 12 hours to work before starting his 14 hour shift.

Strikes a little close to home for me because when I was young my dad’s coworker died asleep at the wheel. They hoped he died at impact because he went into a patch of trees that sandwiched his car doors shut on both sides. If he was still alive and conscious, his last moments would’ve been agonizing as a large fire enveloped the car.

Whatever number of degrees it is between the gravity of drunk driving and drowsy driving is not worth the gamble.


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## Amiers (Dec 4, 2017)

TimMc said:


> Driving without sleep is just as much of a decision as driving after consuming alcohol and has very similar results. There's a reason for Hours of Service regulations for drivers and why there's a whole passel of lawyers that make their living suing truck drivers and trucking companies that permit or require over-drives.
> 
> I had a Tennessee trooper ask for my "other log book" at a weight station. I told he I had only 1 log book and she smiled and replied "It worked on the driver 3 trucks ahead of you.. he was falling asleep while I was talking to him."



Well over course it’s s decision. But driving after working a long shift can’t compare to knowingly going out to get trashed and do stupid stuff then decide the drive.

Further more if you say no to loading out and doing your job you get cut. Nobody wants to lose their job and some decisions are made for you. 

Of course you can stand up for yourself but at what cost?

People that run two books most likely don’t do it because they want to they do t cause the pressure to get from point A to point B because that’s what they are told. 

I truly hope that the media sticks with this and does a follow up with the guy and or police. So we can find out the truth.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 4, 2017)

He has been arrested for suspicion of driving under the influence and manslaughter.

As far as 

Amiers said:


> Further more if you say no to loading out and doing your job you get cut. Nobody wants to lose their job and some decisions are made for you.



Ask Daniel Michael Biechele about that. Just doing his job to ignite the pyro and kill 100 people.


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## josh88 (Dec 5, 2017)

Amiers said:


> Well over course it’s s decision. But driving after working a long shift can’t compare to knowingly going out to get trashed and do stupid stuff then decide the drive.


There's a bunch of evidence showing how driving tired is just as dangerous as driving drunk. Honestly, they're equally bad. Just as easy to drift off and cross the center line or run yourself off into a ditch. Lots of tired people AND lots of drunk drivers get behind the wheel, not intending to do stupid stuff, but in both cases you're not of sound mind. And theres a difference between, I just woke up and boy am I tired and my body is out of gas and is ready to shut down, reaction times slow, spatial awareness goes away. Its a game I don't like playing, theres plenty of other things that can kill us in this industry, don't let lack of sleep do it.


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## Crisp image (Dec 5, 2017)

First of all I will reserve my comments about the potential for the driver to be DUI or Doped up because that is for the police to investigate.
Not sure of the Laws in USA but here in Australia we have a legal driving limit of .05% blood alcohol content and being awake for 18hrs is like being .05. 
Duty of care comes to mind when deciding to drive tired. We all do it and I am sure we all have stories to tell about near misses and that we are lucky to made it home safely.
Here in Oz we have a 15min power-nap may save your life campaign. Some people can do the power nap thing and wake up and go no problems at all while others can't do the short nap and feel crappy when they wake up. 
For my day job I work 12hr shifts. 2x12 days and then 2x12 nights. there are many occasions that I have considered stopping on the way home for a quick nap. I only live 23km from work. 
I also volunteer with the largest provider of road accident rescue for the State of Victoria here in Australia and have done so for more than 25 years. I have seen the results of both DUI and fatigue. To say one is worse than the other is hard. What I have seen is the DUI walking away without injury and the innocent people not going home to their family. 
I do understand the pressure to do the job and be there on time. There has been a big push by industry to be safe and not exceed duty hours. 
I hope that for everyone who is in this situation you can make the right decision to stop, revive and stay alive. better to arrive late than DEAD on time.
These are my thoughts and opinions. Many people have bee injured or killed in the formation of these opinions.
Regards
Geoff


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## TimMc (Dec 5, 2017)

Amiers said:


> Well over course it’s s decision. But driving after working a long shift can’t compare to knowingly going out to get trashed and do stupid stuff then decide the drive.
> 
> Further more if you say no to loading out and doing your job you get cut. Nobody wants to lose their job and some decisions are made for you.
> 
> ...



I refused to drive one night after a 9 hour drive, a full set up and show. Yeah, I got fired and I celebrated no longer working for douche bags. I don't care, I didn't die and I didn't injure or kill anyone nor did I damage property.

What really sucks is that in the USA, EVERYTHING about compliance is on the *driver* and not the employer. If the employer tells me I have to violate the laws and regulations regarding hours of service I have no recourse - I can't even collect unemployment compensation because I failed to do the bidding of the employer - so until I can sue the employer for wrongful termination or bring about an investigation for conspiracy to commit transportation law violations, it's all on me and I choose to remain safe.

I spoke with a member of the National Transportation Safety Board (one of my corpy gigs is a general aviation safety conference) and he just rolled his eyes when I told him what was going on in our industry at the local, regional and small national touring level. His remark was "I hope I never have to see you in an official capacity."


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## Silicon_Knight (Dec 6, 2017)

When I was in the military (Navy Submarine Officer), it was shockingly routine to operate on extremely little sleep - especially during arduous inspections or certain operational situations. Unfortunately, we were entrusted with very complicated and very expensive equipment and expected to make quick, accurate tactical and operational decisions even when extremely tired. I fortunately never saw a tragic result while in the service, but there were many days where certain people should probably not have been on watch. 

Although the vast majority of my tech production work is volunteer and very close to my home, I do participate in a week-long touring show every year where I am frequently the one driving the equipment truck. I make sure that I get sufficient sleep and that we have other drivers available to take shifts to keep us safe. We are fortunate to be in a position where this is approach is easily workable.

As a society, we have come to a point where we have established a measurement method and agreed upon limits for alcohol and driving. If we are going to put a stop to these types of accidents (assuming this was sleep-deprivation related), we will likely need a measurement method and limits for tiredness. I know that there are several technological solutions being considered.

Maybe something like this will become as standard as seatbelts or smartphones.


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## gafftaper (Dec 6, 2017)

Hey in 10 years everything will be self driving and everyone can sleep between gigs!


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## Silicon_Knight (Dec 7, 2017)

gafftaper said:


> Hey in 10 years everything will be self driving and everyone can sleep between gigs!



Maybe sooner than 10 years...
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/11/technology/future/dhl-autonomous-delivery-truck/index.html
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/5/15924010/uber-otto-self-driving-truck-new-look-lidar


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## gafftaper (Dec 7, 2017)

Silicon_Knight said:


> Maybe sooner than 10 years...
> http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/11/technology/future/dhl-autonomous-delivery-truck/index.html
> https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/5/15924010/uber-otto-self-driving-truck-new-look-lidar


The technology is ready right now and safer than human drivers right now. Driving laws need to change in many states and then it's going to take a while for the pricing to come down enough that it's widely adopted.


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