# FOH booth



## Skervald (Dec 12, 2016)

I've been asked to give some input on a FOH position for a 400 seat high school theater. It is to sit behind the last row of seats in the center of three seating sections. (main aisles will be on either side). It's floor is 7" above the row of seats in front of it and then there is a gentle rake toward the stage. There is no overhang to deal with. The total width available is about 12-15'. They would like this to house sound and light desks as well as a stage manager position with the option for one or two more individuals as needed. Power, DMX, sound, com, and internet cabling will be accessed under the counter.

My initial thoughts:
1. The counter be built at standard bar height of 42" both for better visibility of the stage and to move the inevitable booth noise away from those seated around it. I'm probably in the minority here but I also like to run shows standing and this would accommodate that. Bar height chairs are also pretty easy to come by.

2. The booth wall extend somewhere around 14 inches above the counter to shield the audience from booth light and sound.

3. A 2-3" gap should be left between the far edge of the counter and the booth wall to accommodate running cables.

4. some sort of custom cover(s) will need to be made to secure sound/light desks.

My questions for all of you are:
1. do you have any feedback on the above recommendations?
2. what do you love/hate/wish was included in your FOH position?

Any photos you'd like to pass along would also be welcome! (I've taken a look at the booth photo thread already)

Thanks for your input!


----------



## Chris15 (Dec 12, 2016)

Skervald said:


> It's floor ... a gentle rake toward the stage.
> -snip-
> Bar height chairs are also pretty easy to come by.



This combination raises my eyebrow. I'd fight for a level floor to the control area, if only so the chairs don't slide by themselves...


----------



## Skervald (Dec 12, 2016)

Chris15 said:


> This combination raises my eyebrow. I'd fight for a level floor to the control area, if only so the chairs don't slide by themselves...



Sorry, that was confusing language! The booth floor is level. The rake starts immediately in front of the booth. A raked booth floor would certainly add some excitement especially on chairs with wheels.


----------



## TheaterEd (Dec 12, 2016)

Skervald said:


> A raked booth floor would certainly add some excitement especially on chairs with wheels.



Where's your sense of adventure! I say spec a rake in so that adapters and pencils will all roll to one end of the booth, also it will help avoid your techs falling asleep at the board.

On a serious note, take care with the board cover design. I had a three piece wooden unit that was a huge pain to install and remove every day. Also, if it fell it would slam into the board...

As for feedback, I like the bar height as well, but what do you do if you have a board op in a wheel chair? We live in a world of ADA compliance and this could be a deal breaker. What I've done is build a platform for my sound board so that we can use the bar height chairs or stand, but I could easily bring it down if I had a board op in a wheel chair. I hate standing for light programming though, so that stays at counter height with a lower chair.


----------



## JimmyM (Dec 12, 2016)

Bar height seems a bit high to me. Remember that the boards add another couple inches. High Schoolers can also be shorter people. Usually I think people prefer to have a board a little bit lower to the ground, its easier to see what's going on.

Just my 2 cents


----------



## EdSavoie (Dec 12, 2016)

The booth is part of the rake in our auditorium, so as a result the table and bench are sawed on an angle so as to sit flat.


----------



## RonHebbard (Dec 12, 2016)

Skervald said:


> I've been asked to give some input on a FOH position for a 400 seat high school theater. It is to sit behind the last row of seats in the center of three seating sections. (main aisles will be on either side). It's floor is 7" above the row of seats in front of it and then there is a gentle rake toward the stage. There is no overhang to deal with. The total width available is about 12-15'. They would like this to house sound and light desks as well as a stage manager position with the option for one or two more individuals as needed. Power, DMX, sound, com, and internet cabling will be accessed under the counter.
> 
> My initial thoughts:
> 1. The counter be built at standard bar height of 42" both for better visibility of the stage and to move the inevitable booth noise away from those seated around it. I'm probably in the minority here but I also like to run shows standing and this would accommodate that. Bar height chairs are also pretty easy to come by.
> ...


Only a few thoughts from an old blind guy.
In single / combo booth situations, I've always preferred having the SM seated between the LX and Sound operators as cueing can then easily be accomplished by tapping of shoulders should the comms system unexpectedly go down. I'd then add any additional accommodations on the two outer ends when necessary for other uses such as follow spots, understudy's or directors dropping in to observe a performance unannounced. As another general comment, I've always preferred having the sound operator located out side the booth where they can actually hear what the audience is hearing and more easily assess four basic levels such as: My Lord that's painful!, that's plenty loud enough to get the director's point across, that's a suitable background level and that's suitably under dialogue, still audible without masking or distracting from the cast. For decades I've struggled with making these assessments accurately from within a booth no matter whether the performance monitoring be stereo or mono or however well calibrated to a patron's reality.
I applaud your sensible approach of not pushing the distant edge of the counter hard up against the rear wall of the audience chamber. No matter how many cable access holes you leave in a counter top they're often too small for a connector to pass, in a bad location, allow pencils and useful commodities to vanish out of sight at the most inconvenient times, yada, yada. Of course, do add a low, 1/2" to 5/8" lip on the distant edge to keep things from sliding off the counter top and into the great abyss. It's also useful to push counter-top items back against a back-stop such as mixers and / or LX consoles.
Lighting can be conveniently dealt with by having a large incandescent or fluorescent or two overhead for when patrons aren't present and work lights are what's required while vacuuming or servicing within sound and LX consoles. For task lighting during performances and rehearsals, I've personally preferred small, individually dim-able, PAR 20 or PAR 30 low wattage floods or spots equipped with four-way doors and, optionally a light flesh glare reducing gel and / or beam widening frost when necessary to increase the width. Having each task light fitted with its own individual dimmer yet commonly controlled by one, overall, master on/off switch permits all the lamps to be conveniently extinguished when departing without disturbing every ones individual dimmer settings. Never place the bright overhead cleaning light's switch conveniently close to the entrance door as it's the first thing non-booth denizens will turn on when they enter from a sunny day into the comparatively dark environment of a booth mid performance or rehearsal while their eyes are still irised down from having been out in the sun. Keep the master task light switch convenient to the door for the booth occupants convenience but always keep the cleaning/work light switch where the booth bunnies can easily access it when necessary but NEVER where it's the first thing to hand for non-residents. Having the task lights bracketed from the wall over the counter allows them to be focused to skim down the house wall past the windows and onto the counter top without spilling out into the house during black-outs and / or glaring back off the glass, if fitted, at the booth bunnies and / or occupying valuable counter-top space which is often at a premium.
One thing you'll ALWAYS end up fighting are occasional SM's who'll insist on running with their task lights at maximum intensity to the point that their eyeballs are practically bleeding from the glare off their mostly white prompt scripts and then you go for a quick dead black to permit the dead body to exit and the SM with the bleeding eyes is still sitting there asking their ASM's if the 'body' has exited yet. Meanwhile, you've been in black so long, the front rows of the audience are half way to the bars wondering what you're holding for as even their eyes have adjusted and they're tripping over their crutches. Note: The same SM's who can NEVER have enough illumination on their glaringly lit prompt books are almost always the same ones who NEVER switch their mics off between cues, even when there aren't any for ten pages, yet they have no qualms about blowing your ears out when they suddenly feel the need to scream at some poor cast member mid rehearsal. Have you ever noticed, those same SM's that will NEVER switch their mics off are often mouth breathers with post-nasal drip and the same people who slam their headsets down BEFORE they think to switch their mics off? Unfortunately some people, and generally SM's, are like that and by the time they're that old you'll find they're resistant to change and generally beyond your capabilities to educate and / or convert into worthwhile, polite, courteous and generally helpful human beings.
As an audience member, one of my favorite tests for good booth lighting is can I play shadow puppets on my program during boring parts of a production? If I can, I consider it badly executed booth lighting with too much uncontrolled spill escaping to help me read my program. If I can't see the shadow of my hand on my program the booth lighting is on its way to a passing grade. If I can see the booth's inhabitants when I stand, turn around, and look at them, no problem. I see no fault in them having a little light within their booths so long as it's not distracting the patrons from watching the production they've paid to support or distracting the cast as they've enough on their minds already. Not only that, but I shouldn't be standing up and looking in the booth window during a performance.
Pardon me for droning on with another of my TLDR posts.
I'll relinquish both the podium & lectern and crawl back into my little dark hole.
*Edit 1:* Corrected a spelling error.
*Edit 2:* Corrected another spelling error.
*Edit 3:* Missed a space between words.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 12, 2016)

The counter height discriminates against people with disabilities. Do as you please but built as you describe it would be violating federal and probably local laws.

I'm in midst of helping in changing plans so lighting and SM is enclosed. Hard to argue an enclosed SM and board operator isn't strongly preferred and more satisfactory.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 12, 2016)

Edited - autocorrect apparently doesn't like sm (stage manger?)


----------



## chausman (Dec 13, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> The counter height discriminates against people with disabilities. Do as you please but built as you describe it would be violating federal and probably local laws.



If there were facilities in place so that someone with a wheelchair could run from an alternate location, would you still be violating ADA?


----------



## RonHebbard (Dec 13, 2016)

chausman said:


> If there were facilities in place so that someone with a wheelchair could run from an alternate location, would you still be violating ADA?


Then can / will able-bodied technicians suggest that such dedicated / purpose designed locations discriminate against them?
I'm still waiting for the ADA to demand appropriately safe and convenient access to loading floors including in venues with dual loading floors to accommodate longer, possibly double purchase, arbors. 'Now get up there and slug that iron for a few hours then spot a few sheaves on the grid for me while you're up there!'
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard. (Playing the ignorant, and disrespectful, department head. "Seniority? Get up there and show me your seniority now buck-o!")


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 13, 2016)

chausman said:


> If there were facilities in place so that someone with a wheelchair could run from an alternate location, would you still be violating ADA?



Are there ways to get around this? In a work place, if everyone is a paid employee, you can make it adaptable. In a school where it's used for education, no. In a church, well, church vs state probably let's you get away it. But you I have to ask if you want to discriminate? I find it easier and better to design a solution rather than trying to find a way around doing the right thing.


----------



## Skervald (Dec 13, 2016)

TheaterEd said:


> I like the bar height as well, but what do you do if you have a board op in a wheel chair? We live in a world of ADA compliance and this could be a deal breaker.




BillConnerFASTC said:


> The counter height discriminates against people with disabilities. Do as you please but built as you describe it would be violating federal and probably local laws.



Of course. I feel pretty stupid for not thinking of that originally. I'll be scrapping the bar height recommendation. Thanks, CB, for keeping me from looking like an idiot. (once again!)


RonHebbard said:


> I've always preferred having the sound operator located out side the booth where they can actually hear what the audience is hearing



I should have clarified that this won't be a full booth. It won't have full walls, windows, or a ceiling. Just partial walls so the sound board operator should have a reasonably good measure of levels. As far as task lighting goes, because this "booth" is really in the house, I think we're going to have to rely on some indirect lighting and/or small goose-neck lights.

@BillConnerFASTC , I see your point about enclosing the SM and lighting positions. That really would be ideal. Unfortunately it just won't be possible in this case. Concern about noise and light bothering audience members seated close to the "booth" was what brought me down the "how high can I make this booth" path. I'll have to find other ways to mitigate those issues though. Perhaps there is a crash course in telepathy I could send everyone to. That would certainly save wear and tear on the coms.

Thanks for all the input so far. Very helpful! I'd love to hear from some people who regularly work in booths like I'm describing. Is noise/light an issue? How have you dealt with it?


----------



## Chris15 (Dec 13, 2016)

Adjustable height tables are all the rage in commercial offices these days to allow for standing desks.
Would you be able to use one of these to create a height adjustable operating position that caters to both sets of requirements?


----------



## Skervald (Dec 13, 2016)

Chris15 said:


> Adjustable height tables are all the rage in commercial offices these days to allow for standing desks.
> Would you be able to use one of these to create a height adjustable operating position that caters to both sets of requirements?



I like the idea and I'll certainly add it to the mix. I'm kind of stuck on the concept of having the partial wall surrounding this space continue up past the counter/table surface. (I feel like it will help cut the space off from the house and might help keep SM called cues and any light from distracting the audience.) This wall would have to be sized for the lower table height or the view of the stage would be completely cut off. That means there would be of no benefit when the desk/desks were raised up to a higher height.

Perhaps I'm trying to make this height question more complicated than it needs to be.


----------



## Chris15 (Dec 13, 2016)

What about a solid wall to the low counter height then a perspex like section above that - one would need to consider the potential acoustic effects though...


----------



## TheaterEd (Dec 13, 2016)

I really feel like a wall won't help enough with the light and sound spill to justify itself. The bottom line is, the seats close to the booth are going to hear the techs, there are 385 other seats that won't have that issue. Get your tickets earlier if you don't like it.

For our musicals we have the sound board on a folding table at the back of the aud with seats on all sides. It's never been much of an issue, but then again the sound board op doesn't speak as much as a SM or light op may. The light spill is minimal if at all and is pretty much contained to only spilling on the seat right next to the board. I have gotten looks a few times when I was on headset there, but never an actual complaint.


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 13, 2016)

I would suggest making the walls come up about a foot past the desktop, and putting Sonex on them; that will eat a *lot* of booth chatter.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 13, 2016)

A couple of previous threads on the topic:
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/building-a-mixing-console-booth.24366/
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/where-to-start-to-build-a-booth.14490/
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/securing-a-semi-permanent-foh-console.38337/


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 13, 2016)

Rather they post here and then see if they say same thing. Snicker.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Dec 13, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Are there ways to get around this? In a work place, if everyone is a paid employee, you can make it adaptable. In a school where it's used for education, no. In a church, well, church vs state probably let's you get away it. But you I have to ask if you want to discriminate? I find it easier and better to design a solution rather than trying to find a way around doing the right thing.



I've built two booths recently, both were 8" raised off the existing floor with a 36" opening, but a step and no ramp. I set the desk height at 29". For both scenarios, an 8" rise was ample for line of sight issues. Personally, if the height of the desk going to bar height is due to visibility I'd rather raise the platform of the booth itself. It wouldn't be hard to add a wheelchair ramp to either of the two I designed and built as there is ample room outside of the entry on both. 

The home improvement stores sell laminate countertops for reasonable rates which are _almost_ not deep enough for most consoles. I supported the center of the desktop in the middle with a purpose-built 19" rack for gear mounting. I attached an in-progress pic of my most recent one.


----------



## ruinexplorer (Dec 13, 2016)

Depending on your com situation, I have seen many smaller spaces put the SM on SR. He/She would need a FOH camera that could monitor the space, but then calling cues would be less bothersome to the audience. The light and sound op would only have to talk when necessary. In addition, to avoid the noise, you might be able to use cue lights to avoid the noise of cue calling.


----------



## Skervald (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks, @derekleffew. I had taken a look at those threads and there is good information there. I was hoping the discussion on this one would center more on little design features people like (or dislike) and less on the reasons to position audio desks in the house and safety concerns surrounding code violations. (though those are important topics!)


ruinexplorer said:


> Depending on your com situation, I have seen many smaller spaces put the SM on SR. He/She would need a FOH camera that could monitor the space, but then calling cues would be less bothersome to the audience. The light and sound op would only have to talk when necessary. In addition, to avoid the noise, you might be able to use cue lights to avoid the noise of cue calling.



Great ideas and something I will suggest they try if noise becomes a problem.

Thanks for the photo @StradivariusBone. The bar height idea is off the table (or bar?) due to ADA concerns so I think your 29" counter height is closer to what we'll end up with. You bring up a good point about counter depth. Standard kitchen counter depth is 24". I was thinking about suggesting a 30" depth to account for larger consoles and to give a little extra room for cables. Of course that means gluing laminate but it seems like a little extra expense and work is worth it to have something that works. Do you think that's overkill?


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

Convenience - if not mentioned - continuous plug strip or equal with the USB receptacles as well as the basic 120 receptacles.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

And instead of plastic laminate, what do you think of MDO or HDO, with some edge of course. Seems about right color, tough, economical. Does come 4*8 so perhaps some waste.

Depending on the "wall" I like supporting it on brackets with no legs. Build from angle or a few companies make them. I think you said just float off wall for continuous wire way. 

People, especially during tech, will lean on top of wall. A nice hardwood or plastic "top", not something painted or that will not clean easily.

If despite your efforts there will be beverages (drinks in the booth made me think of LDI and beer) consider cup holders. 

Definitely plan for great chairs - adjustable in all ways - a super desk chair. 4 of those could cost more than the construction.

Carpet under. Dark surfaces behind and under. No reflective hardware.

Consider a cupboard - perhaps one each end - for valuables (head sets?).

Counter height - will sound have a half rack here? That might determine some things. Especially if on wheels.

Comfort and convenience - I'll think of more...


----------



## TheaterEd (Dec 14, 2016)

Skervald said:


> Thanks, @derekleffew. I had taken a look at those threads and there is good information there. I was hoping the discussion on this one would center more on little design features people like (or dislike) and less on the reasons to position audio desks in the house and safety concerns surrounding code violations. (though those are important topics!)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My counter is 29" deep and my Yamaha M7CL just barely fits with the cables getting squished. I didn't like the abuse they were taking so I put a platform on the counter to get the board up to the height of the window and thus have more room for the cables to breathe (while also getting it the board up to a 'bar height' so I can mix standing or on my high chairs. It ain't too pretty, but it works.




Definitely a +1 to having usb ports for charging phones in the booth. The techs shouldn't be using their phones, so its a great time to charge them...


----------



## EdSavoie (Dec 14, 2016)

"shouldn't be on their phones"

Until the rights companies give you the accompanying track via iOS app...


----------



## StradivariusBone (Dec 14, 2016)

Skervald said:


> Of course that means gluing laminate but it seems like a little extra expense and work is worth it to have something that works. Do you think that's overkill?



I don't. I was at one point considering that route with laminate on top of MDF, but in both these cases the mixer dimensions made using the pre-built stuff an acceptable choice. Both booths were built in such a way that removal and replacement of the desk would be a _relatively_ simple task if need be. Bill's right about surfaces that are easy to clean though. These spaces take a lot of abuse. It's a tricky thing to build something that looks aesthetically acceptable in the house, but also will withstand a lot of abuse. 


TheaterEd said:


> My counter is 29" deep and my Yamaha M7CL just barely fits with the cables getting squished. I didn't like the abuse they were taking so I put a platform on the counter to get the board up to the height of the window and thus have more room for the cables to breathe (while also getting it the board up to a 'bar height' so I can mix standing or on my high chairs. It ain't too pretty, but it works.



We've got a GLD 80 and it's about the same with our counter. However, it's been in the back of my mind to build a raked platform for it to sit on. The angle of the scribble strip LCD's on that board is such that sitting at the desk you have to lean over the top of it to see them at the right angle. Elevating the back would fix that problem and also allow a bit more wiggle room for cabling.


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 14, 2016)

EdSavoie said:


> "shouldn't be on their phones"
> 
> Until the rights companies give you the accompanying track via iOS app...



I tend to have the opposite view: everyone in sight is going to ask for a phone charge, and a 6- or 10-port Anker with 1 foot cables is -- what comes after Epsilon, in the pantheon of Capital Expense that's lost in the noise?

If you're gonna do it anyway, take up *one* AC outlet, and don't require people to be messing with the power strips all the time. And you're *gonna* do it anyway. ;-)

https://www.anker.com/products/A2133111

Oh, and get the good Anker cables, and spike tape them so they don't walk off.


----------



## Chris15 (Dec 14, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Oh, and get the good Anker cables, and spike tape them so they don't walk off.



Were it me, I'd not spike tape, I'd get a small padlock and just lock all of the cables together including the mains cable.
It works better with "full sized" connectors rather than micro USB or lightning, but it might slow people down...


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

Counter depth - my standard is 36" plus a 3" gap to wall behind. It does seem some newer boards are a little less deep.

The comments on USB dangles and boxes taped to the counter are interesting but somehow recessed devices behind decora style plates sem cleaner and simpler and it it doesn't work any maintenance electrician can replace a standard part from the local supply house. Also, the redundancy of several devices with 2 or so ports seems better planning than one device with 10 for the long term.

Its been awhile since I built one but since I had what seemed like an unlimited supply of dance floor scraps - remnants from a well known manufacturer/supplier - that on ply, with a 1 x 2 oak strip on front edge, seemed great. Thin double faces tape on back edge held the vinyl in place and it floated so never buckled.


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 14, 2016)

I must disagree, Bill because in my humble opinion, there's no call for having that many receptacles in the booth. All your tech gear with the *possible* exception of power amps (which might not be in the booth, if you're lucky) belongs on a UPS, and it only needs one wall outlet. The power bar, if necesary, goes *behind* the UPS. In-wall receptacles - such as much have built in USB power - obviously, can't. In other news, the Anker will almost certainly be better built than the ones inside the Levitons.

Few things make me crazier than 8 or 10 outlets on a wall, and one thing plugged into them: a UPS.

I generally recommend 2 20A branch circuits to the booth, with one duplex receptacle each, unless you have more load than that. If you can put them on separate panels, more power to you. (Pun *entirely* intentional, I assure you.)


----------



## SteveB (Dec 14, 2016)

Attached some photo's of our sound and lighting position at the rear of the orchestra seating at the Whitman Theater, Brooklyn College.

This position was custom designed and built as in-house in 2004 after an extensive theater renovation. We took advantage of a new rear aisle design (concrete aisle extensions, ramps, railings) and laid in a 4"x4" divided trough to the side wall of the theater for cable'ing and power. Then built the position. It was designed by myself and our head audio engineer, who did the build. It's an all wood unit.

Approx. 18 ft. in length, lighting has approx. 7ft., audio has 11. The house right area of the platform has room for a 6ft table for video or a visiting sound console. The lighting desk has room for the Ion (with no wings) plus assorted visiting consoles. At the position are about a 8 or so E-Net cables, 2 DMX dry lines, multiple headset cables, the DigiCo digital snake, the obsolete 40 channel analog audio snake, ETC Unison cables and 3 x 20 amp power runs - Lighting, Audio and Video/Whatever.

The audio section has 2 pull out rack units for processing, though much of what was in here is now handled by the Digico built-in processing.

The lighting section lower right has a locked 3 shelf storage cabinet holding an ETC Net 2 4 port node as well as a local E-Net switch and a power station and I can store 2 2x20 wings when nit in use. The lower left pull-out drawer has a UPS as well as the connections for Unison and Ethernet. The trough on the upstage side of the lighting section has extra power, headset cables, ethernet and 4 DMX lines to the local node. As well there's a drawer for manuals, paperwork, pens, tape, etc... and there are 2 pull-out sliding flat desk tops for laying paperwork, etc...

The position closes up by sliding panels into grooves on L and R side sections. The front and rear panels then get 3 lid tops to close the top. There are 4 padlocks per position to secure. We also lock the chairs.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 14, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> People, especially during tech, will lean on top of wall. A nice hardwood or plastic "top", not something painted or that will not clean easily. ...


They will also set everything imaginable on that convenient ledge. Consider sloping it specifically to discourage that practice.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Dec 14, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> They will also set everything imaginable on that convenient ledge. Consider sloping it specifically to discourage that practice.



There are of course more draconian methods...


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I must disagree, Bill because in my humble opinion, there's no call for having that many receptacles in the booth. All your tech gear with the *possible* exception of power amps (which might not be in the booth, if you're lucky) belongs on a UPS, and it only needs one wall outlet. The power bar, if necesary, goes *behind* the UPS. In-wall receptacles - such as much have built in USB power - obviously, can't. In other news, the Anker will almost certainly be better built than the ones inside the Levitons.
> 
> Few things make me crazier than 8 or 10 outlets on a wall, and one thing plugged into them: a UPS.
> 
> I generally recommend 2 20A branch circuits to the booth, with one duplex receptacle each, unless you have more load than that. If you can put them on separate panels, more power to you. (Pun *entirely* intentional, I assure you.)



That doesn't seem to cover tablets, phones, lap tops, coffee makers, other chargers, etc. I'd rather that than be a nazi on the users or have all manner cube taps and power strips.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 14, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> They will also set everything imaginable on that convenient ledge. Consider sloping it specifically to discourage that practice.


They'll still lean on it, sloped or level.


----------



## RonHebbard (Dec 14, 2016)

StradivariusBone said:


> There are of course more draconian methods...


Forget the notion of having a row of sharp, pointy, spikes. I'm liking the notion of having it patrolled by a clean, non pooping, falcon or a small moat with a couple of hungry gators. Maybe even a few pirannah. Does anyone remember the row of musically tuned flaming gas pipes that someone posted some years back on ProSound and suggested he'd like to have installed across the top of his meter bridge and activated by an spare aux bus?
It was something that began as a physics experiment as a proof of performance of feasibility and then progressed from there.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


----------



## Chris15 (Dec 14, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> They'll still lean on it, sloped or level.


Yeah, but leaning is much less problematic than the inevitable glass, bottles, etc that can spill.
If angled, it should slope away from the booth and into the house for fairly obvious reasons...


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> That doesn't seem to cover tablets, phones, lap tops, coffee makers, other chargers, etc. I'd rather that than be a nazi on the users or have all manner cube taps and power strips.


Well, that's what the second outlet is for; shore power on a separate circuit.

[ More: ]

Another reason this is important is that, in most circumstances, you want to be able to master-switch *all the devices downstream of the UPS*, but not the UPS proper; you still want that on so it will charge. (Some UPSs charge while plugged in but turned off; some, I have found, do not). Putting a power bar behind the UPS gives you the best of both worlds. It also means there isn't a power switch for someone to accidentally turn off -- though in a UPS environment, instead of losing the show, you just get a loud, equally irritating thought that might be.

So, in general, as I say, I lean towards dual power bars -- TECH and SHORE -- plugged into independent 20A circuits feeding a single 5-20R receptacle, one with a UPS in line. If you can get a UPS with a 12AWG line cord, so much the better -- switchover UPSs can get into coffin-corner on long runs, where they can't charge the battery fast enough after power returns because the line cord has to carry the whole load as well as the charger.

If you can afford a line-interactive or online UPS, so much the better, as discussed in a Toodleoo Thread earlier this month. ;-)


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

Chris15 said:


> Yeah, but leaning is much less problematic than the inevitable glass, bottles, etc that can spill.
> If angled, it should slope away from the booth and into the house for fairly obvious reasons...


In fact, my next-to-last house had a cantilever/hung booth, and the slope was into the booth, for other, fairly obvious, reasons.


----------



## TheaterEd (Dec 15, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Well, that's what the second outlet is for; shore power on a separate circuit.
> 
> More to follow on larger keyboard.


I'm with Bill on this one. I have a bigger booth but there are around eight outlets around the booth and they all get used at some point or another. Better than having to run an extension cord or a power strip whenever I need to plug in my laptop. I may look into having a couple of them switched out for some that have usb ports now that you mention it.


----------



## Skervald (Dec 15, 2016)

Good discussion. Anyone ever mess around with dimable indirect lighting or am I better off relying on console lights and individual goose neck units? I was thinking having a strip around the inside edge of the wall might throw enough light down on the countertop to make reading scripts/notes etc. easier.

Unrelated, there are two 20 amp circuits available in this particular situation and amps will not need to be housed in the area.


----------



## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

Though it only works if you have somewhere to hang it from, I have a 95" aluminum C-channel with LED tape inside it, and jack chain to hang it off T-bar or what have you, that I carry around to houses. It lights the whole board and my script.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2016)

My comments were about plugs above counter level for the convenience of the crew that was specifically asked about and the theatre people likely to be hanging out there during rehearsal, as well as before and after a performance. I assumed the consoles and show critical gear was already accounted for, since that part doesn't seem to be a convenience, but rather a necessity.

In my work I look out of the lighting, and that gets its own UPS, and I make sure there are enough outlets for the desk, monitor(s), and accessoires.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 15, 2016)

Skervald said:


> Good discussion. Anyone ever mess around with dimable indirect lighting or am I better off relying on console lights and individual goose neck units? I was thinking having a strip around the inside edge of the wall might throw enough light down on the countertop to make reading scripts/notes etc. easier.
> 
> Unrelated, there are two 20 amp circuits available in this particular situation and amps will not need to be housed in the area.



In a control room, and sometimes in open areas, I usually put track light in over the edge of the counter, small swivel fixtures with spot type lamps, and a local dimmer of some sort. Usually control rooms and follow spot rooms or decks. Since being criticized by a TD 20+ years ago for only having the local dimmer, I have since always put them on the central switching system, so you can turn them out from say a panel on stage or wherever you central controls are. I'm a bit fastidious about wanting every light in the auditorium, stage, and spaces that open directly into the auditorium and stage like control rooms, trap rooms, sound and light locks etc. I've been to enough shows and experienced enough "oh shaw" moments - sometimes audible by the audience - when the house lights go down and they discover a catwalk or gridiron left work light on. I want the technicians to have the option to easily check prior to house out and if they forget, be able to turn off the offending lights quickly, not after a trip to the grid.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Dec 15, 2016)

Skervald said:


> Good discussion. Anyone ever mess around with dimable indirect lighting or am I better off relying on console lights and individual goose neck units? I was thinking having a strip around the inside edge of the wall might throw enough light down on the countertop to make reading scripts/notes etc. easier.
> 
> Unrelated, there are two 20 amp circuits available in this particular situation and amps will not need to be housed in the area.



I would recommend dimmable LED strips if you go that route. I got some LED tape to put under the lip of the top moulding of the booth and did not elect to get any with intensity control. Way too bright. You might also want to explore the feed to the booth and see if it's possible for it to share a panel with the amps. I don't think it's as big of a deal with the digital boards now a days, but I've got a lovely ground hum from the setup at my church from that very problem 


BillConnerFASTC said:


> I want the technicians to have the option to easily check prior to house out and if they forget, be able to turn off the offending lights quickly, not after a trip to the grid.



You're doing God's work, Bill. My favorite related story is when around 1am after a particularly long day, I'm driving past my theatre after locking up and shutting down and out of the corner of my eye see a beacon burning brightly into the night. Our "Return to Seats" sign on the exterior (and lobby, bathrooms, etc) was flashing. With a heavy sigh I turned the car around and began the long climb to the top of our building where the switch for that flasher resides.


----------



## Skervald (Dec 15, 2016)

StradivariusBone said:


> You might also want to explore the feed to the booth and see if it's possible for it to share a panel with the amps.



Good call. It might be a little tricky to work out but better than dealing with the devil hum. I'll see if it's possible.


----------

