# Oakland "Nightclub" Fire



## MNicolai

Reports of 9 dead, 25 missing, and officials are preparing for up to 40 fatalities. I say "Nightclub", but really it's a warehouse/artist's studio being used for a rave.


> A fire broke out Friday night during a party at a two-story warehouse and artists' studio in Oakland, killing at least nine people and leaving about two dozen missing, the California city's fire chief said.
> 
> Initial reports indicate dozens of people -- perhaps up to 100 -- were in the building when the fire started, Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said.
> 
> *Most of the dead were on the second floor, where people would have had difficulty leaving because one stairway -- made of pallets -- was the only way down to the floor below, Reed said.*
> 
> "It must have been a very fast-moving fire," she told reporters Saturday morning.
> 
> "There wasn't a clear entry or exit path up on the second floor. ... If (the fire) had started in that area (by the stairwell), then everyone on the second floor" would have had trouble escaping, she said.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/03/us/california-oakland-fire/


----------



## Les

In looking through some pictures of the place, it appears to have been a total deathtrap. Do they not have fire inspections in Oakland? For a state as regulated as California, I'm taken aback.


----------



## Amiers

Whole place was made of wood plus all the old decor. I bet it lit up pretty fast. I wonder what caused the fire.


----------



## Les

Amiers said:


> I wonder what caused the fire.



Me too. The only clue I've seen is this excerpt from the article linked above:

_"We saw where the fire was. It was on the back left corner of the space," he said. "I started yelling and getting everyone out. It all happened really quick. The fire went up really, really, really quickly."_
_Mulé said he could see the flames clearly and that the blaze started inside the building._
_"That was another person's studio so I don't know," he said. "Maybe there was something plugged in. It could be anything, but they weren't even home. I just know it was coming from their space."_


----------



## Amiers

With all the old stuff in there I wouldn't be surprised if it was an oil lamp or something already lit like a hookah.

With the amount of damage I doubt they will ever find out.


----------



## JD

Could have been as simple as a cigarette butt. Can't believe those pictures linked above. And they had 100+ people packed in there? Not a sprinkler or fire extinguisher to be seen. Come to think of it, not even a water faucet.


----------



## JD

Amiers said:


> With all the old stuff in there I wouldn't be surprised if it was an oil lamp or something already lit like a hookah.
> 
> With the amount of damage I doubt they will ever find out.


I suspect unless they find an eye witness that saw it start, we will never know. However, I think if they made it out, someone knows. Most likely an "Oh Sh**" moment followed by a rush to get out.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

The paint aspect made me wonder about spontaneous combustion. A pile of rags with linseed oil. I know of two stage fires caused by it.


----------



## MNicolai

Aside from the all of the combustible materials, the photos make this place look like a total labyrinth as-is. Add what must have been an incredible amount of smoke and the pallet staircase and it's no wonder people became trapped. Fair chance the lights were dim/off too because of the rave.

Couple updates about the venue. Sounds like it was zoned as a commercial warehouse and the building was already under investigation. Victims families and friends are sharing a Google Doc to try and find/identify loved ones:





Looks like there's also a Wikipedia article already up and refers to the investigation as pertaining to structural deficiencies. Also noted is that a fire dept. spokesperson indicated an event like this would've required a permit that GhostShip did not have.


----------



## RickR

Could be as simple as spilled alcohol. Maybe with an overheated electrical cord, forgotten smoke butt, candle? The list of possible stupidity is pretty long.


----------



## dvsDave

The more I read, the more upset I get.

Washington Post has an article on it today that listed a detail I haven't seen before.


> Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach-Reed told The Washington Post Saturday that more than 50 people were inside, attending a . . . concert was being held on a second floor, where most of the recovered bodies were later found. *A makeshift stairway put together with pallets was separating it from the first floor*, Deloach-Reed said.


----------



## JohnD

The AP story also has some additional information:
https://apnews.com/5ed34c77513b4e3b...arehouse-fire-rises-to-24,-with-more-expected
The worst thing is that it's reported that there were RVs parked on the first floor for artists and that there were no utilities turned on, they stole water and electricity from neighbors, with extension cords snaking all over.


----------



## EdSavoie

How sad, this is a massive loss of life caused by people who know just enough to be incredibly dangerous. Everything about this warehouse is how _not_ to do things.


----------



## dvsDave

The owner of the warehouse, Derrick Ion Alemany, posted this on his Facebook page. I had seen this reported but couldn't confirm it till I found his facebook page and saw for myself. Not a word for the dozens of people who died in the edifice to his ego.


----------



## Footer

Its an old school artist colony. This type of thing used to be all over NYC before everything got gentrified. Some of them still exist up my way. This is where the original Burning Man set lives the other 330 days a year. All the firecodes in the world won't stop this kind of thing from happening.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

No doubt the actions of the artists in the warehouse will adversely impact artists that are not so irresponsible and thoughtless. Not much different than the current demonizing of all law enforcement officers resulting in a substantial increase fatalities in the same neighborhoods where the complaints come from. And of course those few in both cases will blame government, rather than the individuals responsible.


----------



## dvsDave

Confirmed death toll is up to 33. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...house-fire-was-jammed-with-flammable-objects/


----------



## egilson1

My wife's best friend and his husband live in the area and are long time "burners" and very involved with the party underwood in the Bay Area. One of their friends apparently knows a significant number of people who are missing. Truly tragic.


----------



## gafftaper

Monday morning update:
Currently 36 dead but they have only searched about 40% of the building. Searching on hold while they shore up walls for firefighters safety. The DA is looking into criminal charges. 

A survivor interviewed: http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/04/one-survivor-recounts-escape-from-oakland-warehouse-fire/


----------



## MNicolai

The AP article I read earlier interviewed a different survivor who said he jumped from the balcony to get out.

Sounds like no one is going to have much sympathy for the owners. Same article described a messy custody fight between Derick Ion and social services over his kids after they were found to all have lice. Meanwhile, one of the comments from someone on his Facebook page blames this tragedy on capital fundamentalism for pushing artists out of the city and into these conditions.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

To clarify, it doesn't seem Derick Ion is the owner of the building, is he? http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/derick-ion-micah-allison-facebook-post-ghost-ship-fire/ Chor Ng is the owner. 

Seems like lots of blame to go around between Derick, the owner, the city, and the tenants.


----------



## Footer

MNicolai said:


> ....capital fundamentalism for pushing artists out of the city and into these conditions.



Thats going to come up with this. There is a massive housing shortage in the bay area. There is no affordable housing. People are living in RV's parked on sidestreets. Its a real problem.


----------



## Van

Footer said:


> Thats going to come up with this. There is a massive housing shortage in the bay area. There is no affordable housing. People are living in RV's parked on sidestreets. Its a real problem.


People in Portland can't afford the RV's they just camp out on the streets themselves. It's quite lovely.


----------



## dvsDave

An interesting development from this. A friend of mine out in Berkeley, CA said the art gallery/company warehouse space he's at (lumenlabs.net) had a surprise inspection this morning from "all the agencies... fire, housing, code, etc" and they said they would get the results in two weeks.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

dvsDave said:


> An interesting development from this. A friend of mine out in Berkeley, CA said the art gallery/company warehouse space he's at (lumenlabs.net) had a surprise inspection this morning from "all the agencies... fire, housing, code, etc" and they said they would get the results in two weeks.



Expect emergency changes to codes and standards. We live in an era and society were there are mostly reactions, not pro-actions.


----------



## ruinexplorer

Looking through their website (http://www.oaklandghostship.com/), I can see the appeal. I know many people who would have been a part of that scene and not thought twice about their safety. I have been hearing reports on the news that they are saying that a refrigerator was the cause. I think this may be misleading. I think that the reason it happened during the rave was that it was overloaded circuits. It is really tragic.

This is the mindset to which I refer: https://ww2.kqed.org/arts/2016/12/04/it-could-have-been-any-one-of-us/


----------



## jayvee

dvsDave said:


> An interesting development from this. A friend of mine out in Berkeley, CA said the art gallery/company warehouse space he's at (lumenlabs.net) had a surprise inspection this morning from "all the agencies... fire, housing, code, etc" and they said they would get the results in two weeks.


This happened in Baltimore this week as well, at the Bell Foundry. Sign of the times... $ > art.


----------



## EdSavoie

Looking at all the flammable antiques lying around, my guess would be from the lighting system close to something it shouldn't rather than overloaded wires though, unless they were using cheap extension cables with steel conductors.

My mind is possibly tainted from a runaway light that recently ended up taking the Leko's optics with it... (Bad batch of gel sheets)


----------



## ruinexplorer

Remember, this isn't like a regular EDM type rave. This is an "artists" jam session. Back in the 80's we called them the Rainbow Children and they often migrated out into the forests with these types of events. I don't think that they had a lot of lighting similar to a rave. They would have been plugging in a lot of amps and maybe had some additional lighting, but there were probably a lot of open flames as well.


----------



## SweetBennyFenton

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Expect emergency changes to codes and standards. We live in an era and society were there are mostly reactions, not pro-actions.



From what I read, there were complaints made to the city about the space. An inspector had even tried to gain entry recently. I don't know much about this situation but it doesn't seem that the city was negligent.

While looking through the pictures of that space, I was struck by two very different thoughts. One was, "Man, I'm glad I'm not in charge of that space. That place is a death trap." The other was, "This place looks like a beautiful refuge for people who really need it." I've spent time at similar spaces in my youth and the sense of social safety and the sense of belonging was really valuable for me at the time. This is an awful tragedy in quite a few ways.

I think there will be hearings, committees and bureaucrats going through every detail with a fine toothed comb... and I think there should be. I hope there are also conversations about why this place existed in the first place and how a lack of affordable housing and lack of art spaces affects a community. You can only price people out of their homes for so long before they start making their own homes.


----------



## Les

jayvee said:


> This happened in Baltimore this week as well, at the Bell Foundry. Sign of the times... $ > art.



As mentioned above, there's going to be a lot of knee-jerk reaction to this. And then, things will settle down and the root cause and its negative effects will likely continue. These inspections should have been happening all along, and I don't understand why they haven't been. Art, Safety, and decent/legal living conditions don't have to be mutually exclusive. I dunno, maybe I'm missing your point. Can you elaborate on $ > art?


EdSavoie said:


> Looking at all the flammable antiques lying around, my guess would be from the lighting system close to something it shouldn't...



I'm not sure there actually was any stage lighting involved in this at all. I've seen a few YouTube clips of the atmosphere earlier that same night and it was mostly just a DJ at a table and a very dimly-lit setting. Maybe a few rope/Christmas lights around, but there didn't seem to be any lighting system that I saw.


----------



## jayvee

Les said:


> As mentioned above, there's going to be a lot of knee-jerk reaction to this. And then, things will settle down and the root cause and its negative effects will likely continue. These inspections should have been happening all along, and I don't understand why they haven't been. Art, Safety, and decent/legal living conditions don't have to be mutually exclusive. I dunno, maybe I'm missing your point. Can you elaborate on $ > art?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure there actually was any stage lighting involved in this at all. I've seen a few YouTube clips of the atmosphere earlier that same night and it was mostly just a DJ at a table and a very dimly-lit setting. Maybe a few rope/Christmas lights around, but there didn't seem to be any lighting system that I saw.



I agree that inspections all along would have been ideal and that art and decent living conditions shouldn't be mutually exclusive. Unfortunately, they often seem to be and the artists who live in these places are willing to accept the risks for a multitude of reasons. The Bell Foundry is part of the Station North Arts District, an area that has seen significant growth and development recently. That building/property is prime real estate in an "up and coming" spot, which is ripe for "re-development" into condos, lofts, and apartments close to the "hip" arts scene. It'll be an interesting story to follow, certainly.


----------



## JD

Last I read/watched (news), it was pointing to a refrigerator, or specifically what that frige was plugged into. 
Somehow a vision pops into my mind of a lot of appliances plugged into a strip. Apparently there was an area with appliances and a 45 degree burn pattern extending upward. Not hard to imagine how fast that spread given the pictures.


----------



## What Rigger?

Footer said:


> Thats going to come up with this. There is a massive housing shortage in the bay area. There is no affordable housing. People are living in RV's parked on sidestreets. Its a real problem.


Completely correct. Friends in SF managed to buy a house literal weeks before the shortage hit the news outlets.


----------



## garyvp

BillConnerFASTC said:


> No doubt the actions of the artists in the warehouse will adversely impact artists that are not so irresponsible and thoughtless. Not much different than the current demonizing of all law enforcement officers resulting in a substantial increase fatalities in the same neighborhoods where the complaints come from. And of course those few in both cases will blame government, rather than the individuals responsible.


I run

BillConnerFASTC said:


> To clarify, it doesn't seem Derick Ion is the owner of the building, is he? http://heavy.com/news/2016/12/derick-ion-micah-allison-facebook-post-ghost-ship-fire/ Chor Ng is the owner.
> 
> Seems like lots of blame to go around between Derick, the owner, the city, and the tenants.




Agree totally! I am concerned about this fire as well. I run a not for profit community center in which our theater is located. We house artists in a safe, code compliant environment. The building and the theater qualify as legal ‘place of public assembly’ as per NYC DOB and FDNY code and are frequently inspected, and while were stay on top of it, there is always something to be addressed - you are always chasing code. You have to be diligent.
It is interesting, every time I walk into a small theater or artist loft building I go through the whole checklist, especially the basics. Lately I have not been in a small theater or club venue without seeing sprinklers, signage, and extinguishers – comforting but this was not the not the case 10 years ago and I am sure there are many that do not comply..
There is no excuse for these deaths – code enforcement, tenants and owners are all to blame. This fire was chilling with regard to the lack of sprinklers (we are 100% and we pay about 1500$ a year just for monthly inspections, plus I have to have a sprinkler license), a single egress from a second floor (how did that not concern its inhabitants), a wooden staircase, combustibles (paint rags and solvents), emergency signage and lighting (they had none), and no fire extinguishers, (we have 30 – there is one within sight from anywhere in the building). They had nothing.


----------



## RickR

To the large majority of businesses and buildings that are doing the right thing, or at least very close, inspections and regulations are harassment they wish to avoid. This leads to a very strong drive to block government from 'bothering' all these up standing businesses. Cuts to inspections are just a part of the larger goals.

Then we have a reminder of why we have government and rules. The emotional public outcries demand action. Until the pendulum swings back the other way...

We may well have some new regs come out of an investigation. I feel quite strongly just a little bit more enforcement would have prevented the loss of life, if not of the building.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

The change of use of a building has always been a code enforcement problem. There is no permit required to buy a building, so it doesn't really come on the radar. Yet, it's legendary for just this kind of thing. I'm not being thorough but the Beverly Hills Supper Club is sort of like this, with additions but no looking back at existing. The Station (Rhode Island) was a family restaurant, new owners made it a concert venue. Two different occupancies in the same building. This was a warehouse, presumed to have very low occupant loads, and therefore a single stair is fine, and as an existing warehouse, probably did not require sprinklers. By changing furniture, not normally requiring a building permit, it became both multi family residential and assembly.

Never do a play or event in a non-traditional venue? I sure have - classrooms, the beach (OK - not a big fire hazard - maybe drowning), a church, a restaurant or ballroom - but there was no building permit and - in most places in the US - no special permit necessary (then at least).

There is not a simple solution and politicians don't have patience and interest in long, complicated solutions. They want an immediate fix and sound byte.


----------



## gafftaper

FOH is reporting that we lost a brother from the sound world in the fire. We knew it was probably coming, but it's always sad. 

This of course reopens up an old topic.  Promoters and venues care about making money. Your safety is typically not their primary concern. There are gigs that you should consider walking away from for your own safety.


----------



## CashewsInMyDimmers

gafftaper said:


> There are gigs that you should consider walking away from for your own safety.



This should be on a flag.

I agree with something that Bill Said earlier about how this will bring emergency code and enforcement changes, but I also agree with something that someone else said,


Footer said:


> All the firecodes in the world won't stop this kind of thing from happening.



These types of events might happen because people are purposefully trying to create a sense of being outside of traditional life and that the rules of society don't apply.


----------



## tjrobb

For various reasons I can't elaborate, but there is a large assembly building (several thousand capacity) here that has issues with emergency lighting, or a lack thereof. Brought it up to my supervisor, was told to "trust the engineer [that designed the building]". Glad to be gone from such a scary situation.


----------



## SteveB

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Expect emergency changes to codes and standards. We live in an era and society were there are mostly reactions, not pro-actions.



Well, sometimes not true. We are required to get a permit from the NYC Fire Dept to use haze and smoke. After some initial teething issues, the FDNY is seemingly now doing what no other NYC agency knows how to do - take initiative. Thus they come out every month and give us our monthly permit, and we don't even have to call, they just show up !. They did this for November and December, but I'm thinking they might slip for January as it's a holiday week, etc... 

It's almost like somebody paid somebody off, or had an in with the Mayor or something, or paid off the Mayor.


----------



## MNicolai

Two people have been arrested and are each being charged with 36 counts felony involuntary manslaughter. Cause of fire to remain unknown.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...o-arrested-connection-blaze-killed-36-n768406


----------



## Amiers

I kind of feel bad for him but at the same time he brought it on himself. However the government knew for 20 years and did nothing should also be held accountable.


----------



## Van

Amiers said:


> I kind of feel bad for him but at the same time he brought it on himself. However the government knew for 20 years and did nothing should also be held accountable.


I agree, the Government had responded to multiple complaints on the site. there was ample opportunity for them to cite the owners for violations and fix the situation.


----------



## MNicolai

I can't think of any outcome for this that would honestly feel like justice. Seeing this go the way of the Station fire seems most appropriate though. Jail for a number of years with eventual parole. Living with the guilt is probably a worse punishment than 30 years in jail.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

At the station, there were some deep pockets that helped compensate victims. I'm not seeing any parties here with deep pockets.


----------



## gafftaper

Amiers said:


> I kind of feel bad for him but at the same time he brought it on himself. However the government knew for 20 years and did nothing should also be held accountable.


Yeah, this is a situation where government should step in and protect people from their own stupidity. While the people involved shouldn't get away with nothing, lax enforcement from the AHJ is why those people died. 

If a parent watches their 4 year old play with matches for hours before setting the house on fire, who is to blame?


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

The match manufacturer, naturally.


----------



## MNicolai

You're forgetting about the third-party packaging company that designed the boxes or match books for the match manufacturer, and the vendor who sold those products to a layperson without first providing proper training.


----------



## sk8rsdad

Blame Canada!!!


----------

