# I really need some advice.



## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Hi there,

I'm a high school senior handling lighting for a new black box theatre for a community theatre (seats about 60). 

I was given ten lekos at 1000w to light the small stage-- only problem is that our space is limited, so that my lekos are, on a diagonal, about 20 feet from the front edge of the stage. 

Pathetic cross-section:




In addition to having a really uneven illumination (spotlighting created by lekos is easily seen), there are a lot of shadows. I just really don't know what to do to get the set and the actors illuminated well with this setup.

*How can I reduce shadows and reduce visible spotlighting?*
Thanks so much in advance.

-Shaun


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## avkid (Mar 6, 2011)

Is that your only viable position?


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## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Unfortunately, yes. My C-truss is a quarter inch off the ceiling, and is as far back as feasible.


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## techieman33 (Mar 6, 2011)

misterd said:


> Unfortunately, yes. My C-truss is a quarter inch off the ceiling, and is as far back as feasible.


 
We're thinking more along the lines of side lighting. Are all of your lights clustered in the center? Can you spread them out some more? And as far as "spot lighting" you just need to soften the focus and if that isn't enough you can add some diffusion. Something along the lines of an R132 to start.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

I suspect the ERS lights you have are too narrow. Ideally you'd want 50° (4 1/2 x 6 1/2); second best 36° (6x9). As said above, some diffusion media will even out the hot spots, but I'd use Roscolux 114 or 119 rather than 132.


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## kicknargel (Mar 6, 2011)

You could also think about moving the lights farther to the side and cross-lighting rather than straight on. This will increase the throw somewhat. Or try to trade for/buy a more appropriate fixture.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 6, 2011)

As far as your shadows go, they will always be a problem unless you can get lights above the stage for top/back light and for some sides light. It would be great to know what fixtures you have and how big the stage is, might allow us to be more helpful.


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## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for the responses! I really appreciate it.

My lights are indeed spread out. I'll work on softening the focus and purchase a sheet of RS119 or similar. If that doesn't help enough, can I buy "wider" lenses or would I have to purchase all new lights?

If that's possible, how much do new lenses typically cost?

Thanks again, everyone.


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## smigit2002 (Mar 6, 2011)

Costs all depend on the availability of parts, which depends on the type of fixture. Additionally, we could give better suggestions as to beam angle if we knew the dimensions of the stage.


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## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Alright: the stage is approximately *32' x 15'*. 

All I know right now is that they are *Strand LekoLites*, but I'm going to head over there soon, so I'll post something more detailed when I get back. 

Maybe you all could help: they're black, rounded yolk, circular body. They're definitely not new, but were kept in great shape so I'd have a hard time approximating their age. There is a tension knob that allows the bulb assembly to be moved forward and back on the top of the instrument, and the lens has a similar knob at the very front of the instrument.

Thanks so much for taking the time to ask questions, everybody. I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

misterd said:


> ...All I know right now is that they are *Strand LekoLites*, ...


Know (and love) them well. 

Model numbers are:
2204 - 4.5 x 6.5
2209 - 6 x 9
2212 - 6 x 12
2216 - 6 x 16
2112 - 6 x 12 single lens (15°)
2113 - 8 x 13 (10°)
2123 - 10 x 23 (5°)
and later a couple of zoom models.

Introduced by Strand-Century about 1979 (fixtures made after 1989 say Strand Lighting) and made until about 1992. Look for a metal label on the lens tube. It'll tell you what lenses are in it.


As I said above, ideally you'd want it to say "2 - 4.5 x 6.5 P.C. Lenses" or "2 - 6 x 9 P.C. Lenses". If it says 6x12 like the one pictured, the lenses could be changed; but to buy new would be ~$65 each, and you need two per fixture!


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## Les (Mar 6, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Know (and love) them well.
> 
> Introduced by Strand-Century about 1979 (fixtures made after 1989 say Strand Lighting) and made until about 1992. Look for a metal label on the lens tube. It'll tell you what lenses are in it.


 
...And unfortunately, I don't believe wider lenses can be used effectively. Like the Altman 360Q, the lenses used will have to match the length of the barrell.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

Les, this particular line of fixtures (and the gray diecast radial model that preceded it) used a lens tube that could accommodate 4.5x6.5 (with an adapter), 6x9, 6x12, 6x16. The barrels all measure ~6"; the extra length needed is achieved via the sliding dog in the lens tube.

Rather ingenious, and only _slightly_ annoying when trying to replace the lens focus knob (getting the dog to stay still in one place).


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## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Thanks for the detailed info.
$130 per light in not an option (I don't think $30 a light is even an option!), but thank you for ruling that out for me. Now I can focus on doing the best with what I have.

*Any other advice besides using a diffuser, focusing softly, and crosslighting?*

Thanks everyone.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

misterd said:


> ...Any other advice besides using a diffuser, focusing softly, and crosslighting?


That's pretty much it for the optical/photometrics portion. Note: you either want to soften by running the lens, or keeping the lens sharp and adding diffusion media. Nothing to be gained really by doing both.

EDIT: You mentioned the lamp adjustment which slides the lamp forwards or backwards in the reflector (also known as peak distribution/cosine distribution adjustment). Adjust so the field is as flat and even as possible (cosine), then use the lens or diffusion to soften the edge. Setting the lamp to "peak" will make the center brighter, but will add to your "hot spot" problem. Also on the back of the lamp cap is a three-sided joystick knob for adjusting the X-Y. Make sure the hot spot is centered. One of the criticisms of this line of fixtures is that you *have to* bench focus the fixture with every lamp change. I call that a feature, as one *should* bench focus a fixture with every lamp change. (Though lamp manufacturing tolerances and filament design are much better today than they used to be.)

Earlier you said "1000W Lekos"; do you actually have 1000W FEL lamps in them? Hard to imagine you NEED that high of wattage. Most here would recommend transitioning over to the 575W, 1500-hour, GLA lamp. The 500W EHD and 750W EHG lamps work okay, but are of an older filament design.


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## misterd (Mar 6, 2011)

Alright. I've convinced the director etc. to move the stage back. 

*The question now is how far do I need to move the stage back?*

Would 20' be enough? I'll need to know exactly how far to move it because I won't be able to test out different distances live (it needs to be disassembled to be moved).

How would I calculate something like this?

Thanks for your help, everybody. Seriously, I really appreciate it.


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## shiben (Mar 6, 2011)

misterd said:


> Alright. I've convinced the director etc. to move the stage back.
> 
> *The question now is how far do I need to move the stage back?*
> 
> ...


 
Depends on the size of your lenses. If they are 36s, you can probably get away with like 5-10'. 20' would probably do the trick no matter what. Now to calculate the distance to move, use this information: Trigonometric functions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia To figure out your throw distance (the Hypotnuse). An easier way to do this if you are not decent at math (like myself) is to use a CAD program and make a basic diagram of a triangle, and figure out your lights. With this functionality, you can determine beam size (using the same functions and knowing the beam and field angles) and if your wash will be enough to cover the stage. Vectorworks and LD Assistant will usually be able to do this for you, but you can do it by hand if you want, and that will also help you understand what you are actually doing.


Sort of what I would do on CAD for finding the throw distance:

Picture 8 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Often, manufacturers will give data on the photometrics of their instruments either on the Web or in print form somewhere. To get a beam size, do the same thing, but make a cone with the pointy bit the angle of the instrument (beam angle is the one you want, I believe, correct if wrong), and line the axis of the cone on the throw distance. It is generally good practice to set your focus points around head height (5' is usually a pretty good and easy to set approximation), so take that off your trim. Since this drawing is actually in half inch scale, you can then measure how large your pool size will be, at least on the US/DS axis. You can do something similar for the SL/SR axis and then draw an ellipse using those dimensions.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

Whoa there, Mister D! Moving the stage to accommodate the photometrics of the luminaires is an unprecedented undertaking and requires some serious thought and careful study.

1. You still haven't told us what fixtures you have (lenses).
2a. In the drawing below, you want to know H, the horizontal distance from the lighting position to the front of the stage.
We (and you) will also need to know V and S.H. and desired A. of E. to find H.
2b. If A. of E. is based on the actor standing centerstage, it will be higher when he moves DS and lower US.
2c. If using front lights 45° left and right of center (see McCandless method), T.D. (throw distance) will be increased by a factor as much as 1.414.
2d. Precise drafting skills, as well as how various angles of light reveal form (Functions of Light #2) (look in any lighting textbook and at An Analysis of Lighting Angles – Frontlight « Light Cue 23 ) is paramount.



I'd say it's much easier to do some rehanging/refocusing and maybe adding R114, before *even considering* moving the stage.


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## shiben (Mar 6, 2011)

Doing some more work on this, things to remember: Your not actually interested in the distance from the stage edge to the pipe, but rather the pipe to the focus point. In the example linked to earlier, when a 36º beam angle is superimposed on the angles, you end up with a 37' deep pool (US/DS Axis), and if I did it right, only a 15' - 6" wide pool (SL/SR axis). From that you can draw out your curves to figure out the shape of the pool, roughly. These are pretty rough numbers, not sure how the field on a lekolight works, but the point is this, you can figure this out without a computer even. Just grab the photometrics for your instruments, and use the beam angle for your calculation. 


Note: If Im doing this wrong, let me know. I tend to use the "draw beam" function of Vectorworks, so Im a bit rusty on a 2 year old class on hand drafting...


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## shiben (Mar 6, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Whoa there, Mister D! Moving the stage to accommodate the photometrics of the luminaires is an unprecedented undertaking and requires some serious thought and careful study.
> 
> 1. You still haven't told us what fixtures you have (lenses).
> 2a. In the drawing below, you want to know H, the horizontal distance from the lighting position to the front of the stage.
> ...


 
And his diagram is better than my explanation. Also, based on your information, assuming 40º instruments, you just need to focus them better (by my rough drawing work. Im getting about 10' wide pools that are like 22' deep at 18' trim [at a 5' focus point]).

Moving the stage is a lot of work. However, if these are the ONLY lights you will ever get, and you really cant afford to buy new lenses, moving the stage might be the best option for the long run, as the next LD will probably run into the same problem.


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## derekleffew (Mar 6, 2011)

[user]shiben[/user] and I are saying the same thing. The difference is he is willing to compromise (lower) the angle of elevation to accommodate the photometrics of the frontlight (only) fixtures. Without a careful study and more information, I'm not sure I'd do that. But maybe I would. Lighting is all about knowing when/where to compromise and when/where to stand one's ground. ("No, Mr. Artist's Representative, I WILL NOT randomly fire all the strobes during the ballad." "Oh, you're threatening my paycheck? Well then, here you go! <strobe> <flash> <bang> <bang>. What do I care?--I'm only the lighting guy." )


shiben said:


> ...To get a beam size, do the same thing, but make a cone with the pointy bit the angle of the instrument (beam angle is the one you want, I believe, correct if wrong), and line the axis of the cone on the throw distance. ...


You are correct. In a perfect world with perfect lights, beam angle and field angle would be exactly the same. But since it's not, using the calculations for the smaller of the two, beam angle, gives you some wiggle room, and ERS have shutters don't they? Easier to make the pool smaller than larger, exactly what [USER]misterd[/USER] is currently confronted with.


shiben said:


> ...Often, manufacturers will give data on the photometrics of their instruments either on the Web or in print form somewhere. ...


 [USER]misterd[/USER], tell us the model number of your fixtures, and I'll post the cut sheet which contains all this information.


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## shiben (Mar 7, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> You are correct. In a perfect world with perfect lights, beam angle and field angle would be exactly the same. But since it's not, using the calculations for the smaller of the two, beam angle, gives you some wiggle room, and ERS have shutters don't they? Easier to make the pool smaller than larger, exactly what misterd is currently confronted with.


 
Now heres the question that I have on a similar topic (so a minor hijack but one that Mr. Leffew should be able to clear up rapidly), is the degree indication on say a Source 4 the beam angle, field angle, some sort of average, or a close aproximation of the YxZ's actual resultant angle? On VW, measuring the angle on a "40º LekoLight" actually gives a 37.61º field and a 27.15º beam. So how do they get 40º, as 36º would be a better aproximation, would it not?


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## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2011)

shiben said:


> ...On VW, measuring the angle on a "40º LekoLight" actually gives a 37.61º field and a 27.15º beam. So how do they get 40º, as 36º would be a better approximation, would it not?


Well, yes it would, but they (Strand) simply rounded up. Note that the "40º LekoLight" series came immediately after the line that misterd has, and was Strand's first departure into degrees rather than 6x9, 6x12, and so on.
A similar question is "Why do Source Fours come in 19, 26, 36? Why not nice round numbers: 20, 30, 40?"*

Note the ETC Source Four's names and actuals:
Name: - Beam/Field: - Old Style
5° - 6/7
10° - 8/11
14° - 14/15
19° - 15/18 - 6x16
26° - 18/25 - 6x12
36° - 27/34 - 6x9
50° - 36/50 - 4.5x6.5
70° - 60/70
90° - 79/87
The beam/field angles are measurements (with a light meter and protractors) from an actual representative fixture, and are according to the latest version of each cut sheet. The numbers vary slightly depending on the date of the cut sheet.

*Conveniently, and maybe even intentionally, the Source Four sizes approximated those of the Altman 360Q--the most-used fixture prior to 1992.


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

WOW. Thank you for the detailed responses! I'm learning a lot from all of you. Thank you so much.

Here is some more info:
*The lenses on the Strands are 6x16.
The stage isn't as difficult to move as you're probably thinking (requires several guys to pick it up and shift it back).
The stage can (and will) be moved 10' back.
Buying between 2 and 4 new instruments with 6x12 lenses (or larger) is now an option, as long as the price is right (about $100 or less each is the goal).*

I know I need to supply you with more measurements, but unfortunately I read your awesome and thoughtful posts after I left the theatre. 

Anyways, I'm going to ask a few more questions, knowing that the answer may very well be impossible to give without said measurements: 
*Will moving the stage 10' back make a significant improvement in beam diameter?
Will getting between 2 and 4 lights with 6x12 lenses (or wider) help my cause?
If so, should those instruments be ellipsoidal reflectors as well?*

Thanks again, friends. I feel like I should be paying you or buying you lunch for all the wonderful advice you're giving me!


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## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> ...The lenses on the Strands are 6x16. ...


I was afraid it might be something like that.


misterd said:


> ...Will moving the stage 10' back make a significant improvement in beam diameter?...


It will, but your angle of elevation will be severely flattened. No way to overcome the "deer in headlights" look. What we most need to know is the height above the actor's head of the fixture mounting position (or the ceiling height from the audience floor). The short answer is that 6x16s are virtually unusable in the space. (They're fine fixtures, but much more suitable for throws of 30'-50'. *) 
I'd rather have 10x 6" Fresnels.

-----
Since I promised, here is the back of the original 1979 cut sheet:



*The most important information on the page is *Diameter = Distance X .40* which means that for 20' of throw distance you only get an 8' pool, on the floor. At +5' where the actor's face (arguably the most important part) is, it's only a ~6' pool. May be okay as a super bright special, but not when trying to wash the entire stage. No wonder the lighting looks spotty! No amount of diffusion will help that. Unless the ceiling is over 20', your most useful instruments will have a minumum Multiplication Factor of 1.0, which means a field angle ≥ 45°.


misterd said:


> ...Will getting between 2 and 4 lights with 6x12 lenses (or wider) help my cause?
> If so, should those instruments be ellipsoidal reflectors as well? ...


You'll need maximum 6x9 fixtures. Mixing with 6x16s will cause issues.
ERS s are used for FOH applications because they produce less spill on the auditorium walls and ceiling than other fixtures. In a black box theatre, with short throws, Fresnels may be more useful, and less expensive.

I suspect your next question may be answered by Sources for Used Equipment .


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 7, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> I'd rather have 10x 6" Fresnels.



I was totally just thinking the same thing! I've found the 6" Fresnel, in a Black Box type application, to be much more useful than an equal number of Ellipsoidal. Of course these days the Chinese PAR cans are so cheap most people choose those instead. 

It's a shame used 4.5x6.5's aren't more common, but while 10 6x9's aren't ideal, they could be made to work.


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## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> ...Thanks again, friends. I feel like I should be paying you or buying you lunch for all the wonderful advice you're giving me!


IF your location: "MW" is short for Milwaukee, I'm sure Greenia would let you buy him lunch. If it's not, perhaps post a more descriptive location and possibly another CB member could help you out. *
Will light for food* is not an uncommon phrase heard in our industry.


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## JChenault (Mar 7, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> In a perfect world with perfect lights, beam angle and field angle would be exactly the same. But since it's not, using the calculations for the smaller of the two, beam angle, gives you some wiggle room, and ERS have shutters don't they? Easier to make the pool smaller than larger, exactly what misterd is currently confronted with.



It depends on what kind of perfection you are looking for. I was taught that if you are trying to blend acting areas, you don't want a flat beam of light ( IE beam and field angles the same). Instead you want to pick fixtures and position them so the beam angles meet halfway between the acting areas. The field overlap fills in the light and smooths out the beams so that the light is more consistent as you move between areas. If the field as flat, you could not get an even wash. (Now if you are projecting Gobos, you usually do want a flat angle.)

Put another way, If I want a smooth wash I try to set things up so that:
The axis of the beam is pointing at the head of the actor in an Area.
The Beam Angle is between the two areas.
The Field angle hits the actors head in the next area.

How do others do it?


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## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2011)

See _A Practical Guide to Stage Lighting_ author Steve Shelley's "The Slinky Method of Calculating Focus."


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

Alright, thanks for clearing all that up everyone.

*Now, what exactly do you all suggest I buy for optimal lighting?
Something like 4 fresnels and 4 6x9 Lekos, as well as a sheet of Rosco 119 for all Lekos?*

Needless to say, money is not abundant, so I want to be able to light the stage well without destroying the budget.

Thanks guys. You keep amazing me with your thoughtful responses and advice.


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> Alright, thanks for clearing all that up everyone.
> 
> *Now, what exactly do you all suggest I buy for optimal lighting?
> Something like 4 fresnels and 4 6x9 Lekos, as well as a sheet of Rosco 119 for all Lekos?*
> ...


 
At this time I'd try to buy 10 6" Fresnel (Preferably the Altman 65Q which can be found used all over) and then keep your 6x16's to use as specials. The zoom range on the Fresnel in that size of a space will prove beneficial. 

You really won't be happy with a mix of 4 6x9 and 4 Fresnel.


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> At this time I'd try to buy 10 6" Fresnel (Preferably the Altman 65Q which can be found used all over) and then keep your 6x16's to use as specials. The zoom range on the Fresnel in that size of a space will prove beneficial.
> 
> You really won't be happy with a mix of 4 6x9 and 4 Fresnel.


 
Okay. I would also like to do that, but I don't think spending $1500 is an option right now. What if I continued to use the 6x16s and added 5 PARs? Would that look good on stage?


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## shiben (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> Alright, thanks for clearing all that up everyone.
> 
> *Now, what exactly do you all suggest I buy for optimal lighting?
> Something like 4 fresnels and 4 6x9 Lekos, as well as a sheet of Rosco 119 for all Lekos?*
> ...


 

> At this time I'd try to buy 10 6" Fresnel (Preferably the Altman 65Q which can be found used all over) and then keep your 6x16's to use as specials. The zoom range on the Fresnel in that size of a space will prove beneficial.
> 
> You really won't be happy with a mix of 4 6x9 and 4 Fresnel.



I would try to buy 10 6" Fresnels right now, and use them as well. My NEXT purchase would be 6x9s or something, and then move to having 10 areas of frontlight and 10 areas of top light or backlight or some other light like that. I guess I would plan on it more being a long term investment if your going to be looking at a long term space?


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## Les (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> Okay. I would also like to do that, but I don't think spending $1500 is an option right now. What if I continued to use the 6x16s and added 5 PARs? Would that look good on stage?


 
Unfortunately not. The 6x16's will greatly out-punch the pars, adding to the hot spot issue. 

Look around on eBay (if it's an option) for Altman 65Q and/or 6x9's. The Strand Leko's you have also turn up every once in a while -- perhaps you will find a suitable beam spread while keeping your instruments within the same vintage/series. Search keywords "Altman Light", "Ellipsoidal" and "Leko". I have had good luck with this in the past. Used lighting sites are pretty good also, if you want to go that route. The main difference is that the pro sites will know what they have and what it may need to operate safely and relaibly, however they also know what it's worth and need to make a profit. Ebay, on the other hand, is full of sellers who are motivated to move gear (sometimes cheaply) but you may get "surprises" when you receive said gear. I've had pretty good luck with eBay *squinting*, but you have to be careful. AVForSale on eBay often has good gear at reasonable prices, They are experienced in lighting equipment, thus very honest and descriptive of an item's condition.

I recently picked up these older Altman 6x9's from a a different eBay seller for about $60 each. They are in excellent condition.


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## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> ...and added 5 PARs? Would that look good on stage?


While that is a great deal on 5 Thomas PAR64 cans, the included MFL lamps are not proper for your space.

We were all thinking something like this: GearSource - Used and New L&E 6" Fresnel . 
Discuss with the owner: maybe try to sell the Strand 6x16s for $75-100 each, and buy Fresnels?

Where are you again? Perhaps you can find used lighting closer to you and save the shipping charges. Is there a friendly local lighting company in your area? They sometimes have great deals on used gear.





(Hey Noah, I bet you'd give your left nut to have this!)


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

Alright, I see. I agree that purchasing fresnels is a good long-term investment, I just hope it's a viable option financially. 
I'm located about 45 minutes south of Chicago. I just called Grand Stage in Chicago and they quoted me at $127 each for Altman 65Qs-- quite a price difference from these fresnels from GearSource that Mr. Leffew suggested in his last post. Although they aren't the same 750w vs. 500w, brand name, et cetera-- I'm wondering if I could just get the fresnels that Mr. Leffew suggested and be fine. 

*Would the 10 GearSource fresnels look good onstage and provide adequate flexibility if I sold 5 of my current lekos and kept the other 5 for specials?*

Once again, I don't have exact distances for you to go off of, but can you maybe give me a general idea if this will work out?

Thanks so much for your invaluable help. I would still be at the theatre blaming myself for not knowing how to focus the lekos if you guys weren't so selfless with your time and willing to share your knowledge with me.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 7, 2011)

I wouldn't sell what you have right now. At least at the moment you have something that shines light on the stage! The fresnels you linked to are cheaper for a couple reasons: A) They are used, B) The probably have a used lamp, C) they don't have clamps, safeties, or color frames. Now, you would have to check to see if lamp, clamp, color frame, connector, and safety are included in the price from Grand Stage. You could also have them quote you on the L&E fresnels, they are just as good Altman.

Here is something to consider, you don't want to end up with any fewer instruments than you have now. Right now we are talking small numbers of units, and you probably will need every one and still not really get the coverage that you want. What kind of shows are being produced in this space? What kind of dimming and control system do you have? These are all things to think about that could really help with how we can help you.


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh, and one more quick question: will 10 500w fresnels be enough?

I'm just concerned about the wattage, as our current lekos are 1000w (and yes, the bulbs are also 1000w). 

*We are almost definitely going to purchase those (10) 500w fresnels from GearSource, I just want to know if there are any reasons why we shouldn't purchase them so I can make a more responsible judgement call.*

Thanks again.


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## shiben (Mar 7, 2011)

misterd said:


> Oh, and one more quick question: will 10 500w fresnels be enough?
> 
> I'm just concerned about the wattage, as our current lekos are 1000w (and yes, the bulbs are also 1000w).
> 
> ...


 
Buy them. I have used those a couple times, and I actually like them a lot. Just dont sell the rest of your instruments. Then, you can use them for other things. You would be supprised, sometimes you actually want a narrow beam in there, and if you can hang another pipe for another position, or add on to your other pipe with some really narrow specials. There are more times than I can count that I want a 10º in our 18' gridded black box theatre.


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## kicknargel (Mar 7, 2011)

I agree that the fresnels will be great. Just to cloud the issue with one other option I haven't noticed mentioned--the Altman Baby Zoom. It goes as wide as 50deg, and is a good unit for smaller venues, especially with a GL(x) lamp. Not going to be a cheap as the fresnels, though.


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## misterd (Mar 7, 2011)

kicknargel said:


> I agree that the fresnels will be great. Just to cloud the issue with one other option I haven't noticed mentioned--the Altman Baby Zoom. It goes as wide as 50deg, and is a good unit for smaller venues, especially with a GL(x) lamp. Not going to be a cheap as the fresnels, though.


 
Thanks for the concurrence and for suggesting the Baby Zoom. I looked at the spec sheet and it does look pretty great and perfect for our space. However, like you said, the price is relatively high when compared to the fresnels. In the future though, I can see it being useful for specials in odd places (since the place is entirely our own, the directors will be putting actors in all sorts of places, I am certain).


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