# Control Booth Options?



## EWCguy (Mar 31, 2014)

I've been doing part-time TD work at the college where I work (in another dept) for the past 15 years. From day one, I recognized that the current location of the control booth for sound and lights was not optimal. The first thing I did was remove the window panes from the front of the booth that prevented easy viewing of the stage and made it impossible to hear live sound. Live sound is still a problem as what I hear in this cave at the top of the house area is very different from what is heard on the floor.

From the stage, this is what you see... just over 520 seats in three sections (you see center and house left seating) on our main level, then two "lecture halls" above (as per house left) which can be curtained-off (as seen house right) making up another 180 seats or so. The control booth is that white/black area between the lecture halls. It sits above the main entrance doors to the house.

What I'd really like to do is to build a control area in the back 3-4 rows of the center seats. It would have to be aesthetically pleasing as well as a little isolated so that communication by the techs isn't disruptive to the audience. From what you see pictured, are there any other ideas for relocating the booth?

Thanks!
~ Aaron


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 31, 2014)

We usually design them in at a crossaisle, but what you suggest at back of 500 seats should be pretty good and huge improvement.

As far as what it is physically, whether or not you have to be able to secure it is a key question. The lockable roll top like desks with rack space and all are hardcto beat but if not locking, a part ht wall surrounding a counter is fine.

We have to worry about it being accessible to people who use a wheelchair to get around. Just know the requirements are there. Ideally if this space was already accessible and boothbwas not, you could justify funding it on accessibility grounds.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 31, 2014)

I looked around photo some more and there are so many non-codevitems that jumped out, just saying, start something and it could get bigger or go a different way.


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## SteveB (Mar 31, 2014)

EWCguy said:


> I've been doing part-time TD work at the college where I work (in another dept) for the past 15 years. From day one, I recognized that the current location of the control booth for sound and lights was not optimal. The first thing I did was remove the window panes from the front of the booth that prevented easy viewing of the stage and made it impossible to hear live sound. Live sound is still a problem as what I hear in this cave at the top of the house area is very different from what is heard on the floor.View attachment 10652
> From the stage, this is what you see... just over 520 seats in three sections (you see center and house left seating) on our main level, then two "lecture halls" above (as per house left) which can be curtained-off (as seen house right) making up another 180 seats or so. The control booth is that white/black area between the lecture halls. It sits above the main entrance doors to the house.
> 
> What I'd really like to do is to build a control area in the back 3-4 rows of the center seats. It would have to be aesthetically pleasing as well as a little isolated so that communication by the techs isn't disruptive to the audience. From what you see pictured, are there any other ideas for relocating the booth?
> ...



We did something similar about 15 years years ago, needing to move the house audio control gear to a location in the theater and outside of the enclosed booth. We were generally needing to locate rental and visiting audio equipment in the the theater on occasion, so it's a no-brainer for the house system to be better located as well. We opted to move lighting to the side of the audio location at the same time (both from enclosed 5th floor booths above the balcony).

We were fortunate in that the rear orchestra seating area allowed a sound and lighting "table" system to be constructed that did not interfere with the sightlines from the mezzanine seating, immediately behind the orchestra. Our lighting and audio desks are actually and partly in the rear aisle separating the orchestra and mezzanine and are on a flat aisle thus are ADA compliant.

So that's the million dollar question - sight lines and do you have it.

The practical issue after sight line, is power and cabling. We were able to modify the slope of the orchestra aisles to accommodate a trough for the audio, lighting and power lines to get run to the position, using a built up ramp and re-glueing the carpeting on top of the ramp. If we could have, we would have cut holes thru the slab to gain access from below but that became an issue due to the floor slab design, thus the ramp.

But sight line is the key and it appears that it might be a problem in your space.

The next option then is to remove rear orchestra seats to create a position for audio. That's a big financial issue for the theater due to lost revenue. Then you also need to deal with the security of the gear. Our "table" is actually a custom manufactured (in house) box system with removable and lockable lids that come off to reveal the audio and lighting consoles. We looked at assorted roll top solutions but nothing met our requirements, thus we built in-house. The lighting desk has 2 lockable file cabinet sized cabinets located L & R underneath the desk top (we paid a LOT of attention to working height/sightline) for storage, with UPS and a work drawer on the left, the Net2 node, another power switch and E-Net switch as well as shelves for fader wing storage on the right. Built in are sliding shelves for laptops, cue books etc... The desk has slotted end caps that the side panels slide into, with 3 top lids that lock to the side panel.

The audio system has pull out racks for effects and processing but is essentially similar. We stained and matched to the wood paneling in the theater.

Attached photo shows one of our LD's at the Ion.


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## museav (Mar 31, 2014)

As noted, one common consideration is infrastructure and cable paths. Once you figure out how the new booth location would physically integrate with the existing tech systems and the equipment that would be located there you then need to figure out how to address all the associated cabling and power. If there are no existing infrastructure provisions for a booth at that location then the conduit, junction boxes and power required along with the related installation could be a major effort and cost.

Sightlines may also be an issue. Bring the rear aisle elevation forward the 3 or 4 rows and add a knee wall of sufficient height to hide the back of all the main gear and that may affect sightlines from the seating behind. Then consider the techs, video monitors on the desktop, etc. and sightlines from some of the seats behind are probably even more likely to be compromised. It might be worth attempting a simple mock-up using foamcore, gatorboard or similar to verify if any sightlines would be compromised and to what extent.

The location appearing to be right be the main audience entrance would make me a little more concerned than normal about security as everybody coming in will see what is in the booth and it's just a few steps to being out the door with any of it. There would be potential code and sightline implications but for security as well as minimizing the disruptions for the techs you might want to consider a taller wall or curtain at the back of the booth to help isolate the booth from the entrance.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 31, 2014)

Maybe we're overlooking the obvious though requiring more planning, but construct a platform over entrance and between the walls of the lecture rooms? Can't be sure I'm reading photo right. Easy peasy wiring just through the wall, as secure as booth. Hopefully it won't obstruct other control room function sightlines but perhaps it could be a step down. Doesnt need any costly cabinetry or wiring, so may not be very different from relocating to main floor cost wise.


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## RickR (Mar 31, 2014)

One option to consider is wireless sound monitoring. 
The project isn't finished but will have a full booth at the back of a rather long and narrow house. The wireless part is an Ipad a sound tech can take to a seat and do some minor level and mix adjustments. Not my idea, but I'm eager to see how it works.


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## EWCguy (Mar 31, 2014)

RickR said:


> One option to consider is wireless sound monitoring.
> The project isn't finished but will have a full booth at the back of a rather long and narrow house. The wireless part is an Ipad a sound tech can take to a seat and do some minor level and mix adjustments. Not my idea, but I'm eager to see how it works.


Rick, that sounds interesting. I'm sure not like really being there, but possibly a good workaround for your space.


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## EWCguy (Mar 31, 2014)

I do appreciate the comments about accessibility for the techs. Right now, there are about 15 steps up an L shaped stairway to reach a bridge that crosses the lobby before you get to the booth door. After that, use and visibility from a wheelchair would be drastically reduced.

Here's a side shot of the entrance doors, the cross-aisle behind the main seating, and the "nose" of the current booth (dang I need to take some different pictures). The actual booth window is above that white part.
It would be my intention to take seats out of the rear 2-3 rows and build a ground-level control area, with at least a locking, roll-top cover that would house both audio and lighting. I'm thinking we could run conduits down the face (or down the open block channel) of those two tall walls in the picture from where all wires currently terminate, then channel the concrete cross-aisle for final emergence toward the back of the new control area. Wires would have to be spliced in order to make the new run and I'd like to figure out how to install some new low impedance "sends" down to the stage as well (we only have amplified signal headed to speaker ports).

Although not to 508 code, I like the idea of a cantalevered platform out in the open above the entrance doors. That would help.

Sightlines... I hadn't thought about that disruption for the upper seating areas. Building a cheap mockup is a great idea. Thanks!


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## agbobeck (Mar 31, 2014)

Many of the high schools in my area have a similar design to your theater. A main section with the entrance doors in the center, the booth built out above the entrance and two mezzanine levels to either side of the entrance/ booth. We did two different solutions. One, we put the tech tables with both the lighting and sound consoles and an area for stage management in front of the entrance doors. for Audio data, dmx, coms, and power we did a drop from the booth window down to the table. We did not have to tape anything down and the angle was good enough that no one had to duck. from looking at the images of your theater this might be possible if you pulled out a couple of rows of seats from the center section to give you enough room when people are entering. 

The other solution is two build a control area to one side of the theater. This is the method I preferred. We pulled out a couple of rows from the back house right corner of the main section. we then built a platform that would provide the crew with a level work surface high above the heads of the audience members. Because of how the catwalks are in our theater. we were able to run all our data, dmx, coms from the booth through the ceiling and then out a low voltage box we put in the wall. There were already power outlets where we put the platform, so I pulled the box and replaced it with a hardwired quad box so that we could get our outlets right by the consoles. we ran audio directly from and back to the stage with a medusa snake because we were replacing our built in stage boxes anyways. we set up the control area in two rows. Lights and stage management in the first row and sound in the second.

Though both solutions worked really well, I prefer the second. This way our tech tables do not distract anyone's view of the show and our crew can stay isolated from the rest of the house. The only issue we ran into was when aiming our MLs on the cyc we would have to walk to center to ensure they were position correctly. I am trying to dig up my sketches from the planning of our work and feel free to PM me with any questions.

Aaron Bobeck
Lighting Designer
JOMDC/ WST


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## SteveB (Mar 31, 2014)

I've seen many configurations as agbobeck describes, only issue is it works for lighting and SM, but sound typically wants to be centered so as to hear L & R balance if doing a stereo mix. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 31, 2014)

Could the front wall of booth just be removed or a large section - like counter top to ceiling?


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## museav (Apr 1, 2014)

RickR said:


> One option to consider is wireless sound monitoring.
> The project isn't finished but will have a full booth at the back of a rather long and narrow house. The wireless part is an Ipad a sound tech can take to a seat and do some minor level and mix adjustments. Not my idea, but I'm eager to see how it works.


While it may work great for simpler events, I'm not sure how practical mixing from an iPad is for some theatrical applications. And if you are mixing wirelessly in the audience then how do you address production communications, cue/solo audio, initiating playback of sources, monitoring wireless microphone receivers and any other functions often related to mixing?


EWCguy said:


> It would be my intention to take seats out of the rear 2-3 rows and build a ground-level control area, with at least a locking, roll-top cover that would house both audio and lighting. I'm thinking we could run conduits down the face (or down the open block channel) of those two tall walls in the picture from where all wires currently terminate, then channel the concrete cross-aisle for final emergence toward the back of the new control area. Wires would have to be spliced in order to make the new run and I'd like to figure out how to install some new low impedance "sends" down to the stage as well (we only have amplified signal headed to speaker ports).


Trenching the concrete may be fairly easy or virtually impossible depending on the type of construction used and whether you have to work through or around rebar, tensioning rods and so forth. Also consider the bend radius or transitions that may be required for the conduit where you transition from wall to floor and if that may become not only an aesthetic issue but also a potential exiting and accessibility factor.


SteveB said:


> I've seen many configurations as agbobeck describes, only issue is it works for lighting and SM, but sound typically wants to be centered so as to hear L & R balance if doing a stereo mix.


I have a bit different perspective than many on this as my view is that if you have a "stereo" system then you should have good stereo reproduction everywhere in the listener area and if you don't have "stereo" anywhere other than on axis then why would you want to mix based on what only a limited number of the audience members hear? I actually prefer slightly off center mix positions as I see them often offering a better representation of what the average audience member hears.


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## StradivariusBone (Apr 1, 2014)

> I have a bit different perspective than many on this as my view is that if you have a "stereo" system then you should have good stereo reproduction everywhere in the listener area and if you don't have "stereo" anywhere other than on axis then why would you want to mix based on what only a limited number of the audience members hear?



When I first took over duties as AV tech for my church, they had set up a stereo mix with guitars panned to one side and vocals to the other (and a hodge-podge of other channels in between), when I asked whether or not they get complaints from parishioners on hearing too much guitar or too much vocal or vice versa- it was an emphatic Yes! They couldn't figure out why no one was happy and they had conflicting complaints. 

The building is about 100' deep from stage to booth and about 250-300' wide with enough mid-high range speakers to cover 6 distinct fields and floor subs to cover 4. I made the powers that be walk from one side of the church to the other while the band was playing and now we're center-panned all the way. Depending on where you sat, you'd often never hear anyone singing.

That being said, the booth can be the Taj Mahal of booths with massage chairs and blackjack, but I still walk around the building during sound check each time. In the theatre where I work, being able to adjust the mix from the floor with an iPad while my kids are upstairs on the board is beyond amazing. I can verify they aren't mixing anything stupid, and I can help them hear what they can't because of the location of our console.


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## RickR (Apr 2, 2014)

The goal of an iPad mix is to have as little as possible for that person to do. Major mix settings should be determined as StradavariusBone says, in sound check, in multiple areas so there aren't any surprises later. A house position for setting final level and balancing performer "variability" is all that's needed.

It is not for a one man show unless it's only a few mics.


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## Eboy87 (Apr 2, 2014)

RickR said:


> The goal of an iPad mix is to have as little as possible for that person to do. Major mix settings should be determined as StradavariusBone says, in sound check, in multiple areas so there aren't any surprises later. A house position for setting final level and balancing performer "variability" is all that's needed.
> 
> It is not for a one man show unless it's only a few mics.



I'm sorry, but I must strongly disagree with most of this. To a (reasonably) experienced mix person, this is just dumbing down the craft. A mix should never be thrown up and left. There's always something to adjust, whether it be bumping the guitar solo, riding the vocals to stay above the band, or adjusting and mixing back effects sends, even tweaking EQ, comps, and gate settings. What about that horrible squealing feedback? At the console, I can see which channel is peaking and kill it. On the iPad, I have to hunt through things to find it. And I have yet to see a show network that is 100% dropout free.

iPads are great tools for fine tuning a mix/EQ, but I would _never_ want to be actually mixing a show on one, especially theatrical. There's too much going on to have a "set it and leave it" mentality. I guess part of it is I was taught to mix hands on, whether adjusting effects sends, or constantly riding vocal levels above a band. For reasons why iPad mixing shouldn't be done in a theatrical show, see this thread :Stumbled Across This Video | ControlBooth

There's a reason most iPad apps don't control every aspect of a desk.

I will concede that using an iPad to set up mixes on stage is a viable solution, but during the show, I'm still manning the monitor console, rather than standing around with my iPad. As a sound designer, I use it in the house to fine tune settings while my A1 is actually mixing the show.

And that's enough of my soapbox for a while


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## StradivariusBone (Apr 3, 2014)

I'm in a HS PAC with a GLD80. For me, being able to see what my kids have set up during sound check is invaluable. It gives them the confidence to preset the board without me having to look over their shoulders and I can be on deck tending to other things. When they hit a snag, I can look at what they see without sprinting up the stairs. The only time I've run anything with just the iPad was during a meeting that used one mic and audio from a laptop, and even then I was riding the faders as different speakers got up, the kids in the crowd got louder, etc. I wouldn't use it for anything beyond that.


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## RickR (Apr 4, 2014)

Eboy87 said:


> As a sound designer, I use it in the house to fine tune settings while my A1 is actually mixing the show.



What were we disagreeing about?


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## Eboy87 (Apr 5, 2014)

Sorry Rick, I misread your post after a long day in the theatre. I thought you were advocating for house with an iPad mixing without someone at the console. 

My apologies.

But I have heard that argument come up before, usually amongst amateur producers and engineers.


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## EWCguy (Apr 8, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Could the front wall of booth just be removed or a large section - like counter top to ceiling?


Bill, by removing the sliding window panes from the front of the booth, I have essentially done that. there is a big square opening, then, but the booth is at the same level as permanent house speaker mounts which are directed slightly downward. Without being directly center, one side of audio is then "hidden" a bit, even in a mono mix. I think it's easy enough to blend voices, but to be certain of balance between voices & instruments where the acoustic volume of the instruments is not readily audible in the booth (or even general volume level) without, as has been said, a *trip down the stairs* for a walk-through of the seating area, is just not possible. Of course, then you go back upstairs to add some more of "X", come back down to see if that's what you like, etc, etc, etc. At least I get my exercise.


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