# It pays to be a stagehand...



## derekleffew

In light of the recent Local One strike, (I know, not the same contract), and having just found this on my computer from 2000, I thought it worth opening a discussion. 

Are Stagehands over-paid, under-paid; both, or neither?


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## SweetBennyFenton

Hell, $300,000 a year in NYC will get you a small apartment with a view of a brick wall. 

In all honesty I find it hard to think these people are getting payed too much, not after I saw them in action with my own eyes. I only worked a couple of union calls when I lived in NYC but I saw a group of workers working harder, faster, and safer than any crew I've ever seen in my life. They were true profesionals. 

This experience is just what I saw. Any NYC stagehands in the house?

Maybe the issue is just that we should ALL be getting payed that much.


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## porkchop

This is a topic that came up a lot in our last show (if you remember back to the punching bag post it was not the smoothest run crew wise ever). There are a lot of jobs that don't pay much, if you don't believe me please tell me where you're working and where I can apply, but a lot of those jobs don't actually require a lot of actual work. 

Case that I'm using to illustrate this point. My job during the last run was two fold and this is the case for anyone that does run crew and works for any other department. I get paid less for run crew even though thats where the majority of my hours were. I couldn't complain about this because during this run there where time that I could either sleep, read, or go to the green room and play cards. This was the case in tech and the actual performances. I wasn't getting paid a whole lot but there just wasn't that much for me to do. Basically your can't complain about not getting paid much when you don't do much, even if it's a big time comitment.
On the other hand when I work for Alex, I get paid more and certainly feel I deserve that because unlike the show I'm doing work the whole time. If your doing something and have a skill that is needed you should be paid for it.

In reference to the posted article the "stagehands" that are being mentioned are heads of departments, and I wouldn't want the stress of their jobs. For this last show, I as a "part-time overhire" employee have almost 1/3 of my hours in over time and I'm not actually sure that Alex ever actually slept. And we needed every one of those hours to make this show happen. If I had to do this for any extended period of time you would really have to be good to me to keep me. And since you can't slow the earth's rotation to give me some time to sleep, money is the best way to do that. Sometimes this job requires you to work a ridiculous schedule, if thats the case for a long time you should be making a very healthy pay check.

EDIT: that means I'm voting for in general across the board that pay rates seem to be reflective of actual work done


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## Capi

I would agree with Porkchop. You should get paid in relation to the amount you do. And I think I've found a new goal in life after I graduate. Move to NYC, work my butt off for a long time, become a dept head, and finally make some good cash.


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## SteveB

Capi said:


> I would agree with Porkchop. You should get paid in relation to the amount you do. And I think I've found a new goal in life after I graduate. Move to NYC, work my butt off for a long time, become a dept head, and finally make some good cash.



Yeah, but then what ?. You still are not in it for the money, which isn't that great.

One of the hightest paid stagehand positions in the US is a dept. head on Broadway, NYC. The base rate is (Or was - don't know 'bout the new contract, but it ain't a whole lot more) $1,650 per week. IF you work 52 weeks that's $85,800. About $42 hr. Seems like a lot, except.....

You cannot be the sole breadwinner in a household within commuting distance of Broadway on that salary. 

Granted that there is add'l work during the week that add's OT and probably brings the salary up over $100,000, but that STILL ain't enough to support a family around these parts. Your SO better be working as well if you want a nice house and want dental insurance that includes the kids. 

I have 3 friends on B'dway. A few others at the Met Opera and a few at the TV studios. I would describe all of them as surviving and that's about it.

So no, Stagehands are most certainly not overpaid. 

Oh and BTW. Your chances of becoming a Dept. Head anywhere is slim. There will be 20-30 stagehands as equally talented as you lined up before you waiting for that slot. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's an extraordinarily competitive market and you need a ton of talent, a very good reputation (don't EVER show up somewhere late for a call) and mostly a lot of luck as well as good timing to be in the right place.....

Steve Bailey
Brooklyn College


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## Capi

Point taken, Steve. I've never been in theatre for the money, because I know that theatre just doesn't pay well. If I wanted to rake in the cash, I'd go into some other line of work.


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## sobenson

SteveB said:


> Oh and BTW. Your chances of becoming a Dept. Head anywhere is slim. There will be 20-30 stagehands as equally talented as you lined up before you waiting for that slot. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's an extraordinarily competitive market and you need a ton of talent, a very good reputation (don't EVER show up somewhere late for a call) and mostly a lot of luck as well as good timing to be in the right place.....


You also have to be related to someone...there are 4 or 5 big families in Local 1, with father, sons, uncles, nephews and marriage relations all in line for that head position.


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## Spikesgirl

My son works as a model builder for a designer on Broadway and he is hand-to-mouth at the best of times and is trying to find someone to sponser him. Even that is tough to do, especially in NYC. Too few slots and way too many extremely qualified folks for them.

Our producing director retired from Broadway after many years as a musical director and he said that while some stage crew are grossly overpaid(like the guy who hits the up and down button to opereate the grand rag), many are not. The ones that work the hardest are usually the lesser appreciated. Two sides to every coin, I guess. 

Charlie


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## zzzeus

most i ever made was like $120 bucks for a show but granted that was $10 hr for 12 hrs but i have only been doing this for 3 years and i am only in 11th grade. one day i hope to become a professional shop worker and lighting tech. not really sure how much i will make but my mom said i can live at home lol


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## arlon666

I am union stagehand with IATSE local 632 Northern NJ. We are by no means over paid. It is hard enough to make just a basic living off the work here. I work a lot in local one's territory and know them very well. There are only a select few who make any real money. And it is at the expensive of living at the theatre all the time.

The main issue of the strike was how many guys need to be on a call. And that the house wants to decide how many they need not the union. I am dealing with that very issue at a community theatre by me in my territory. They are trying to cut cost by putting four men on a call when we need at least six. So we have to kill ourselves to get it done and we have the road crew yelling at us to get it done. It dose not make for a friendly or safe show. Even the rider for the show says they must supply six stagehands. 

Though on the other hand I have been on shows where they request like 15 guys on the out just so they can get out faster. But that is way more than was needed so I can see where the theatre would not listen to the rider.

This is why the union want to be the one deciding the amount of people neded for the show. We know from the rider and the size of the venue how many it will take to get it done.

Unfortunatly there are some people who will pad a call to make their buddies some extra cash. And that is what hurts our crediability. There was a whole mess over at MSG with that.


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## What Rigger?

Capi said:


> I would agree with Porkchop. You should get paid in relation to the amount you do.


I'll disagree with that, and here's how: I do a grand total of about 90 minutes of work a night, get paid for a full eight hours. Why? Because for 20 minutes during that time all I *must do* is keep one human being alive 100 feet in the air on my automation rig.
And that's **** hard to quantify.
I'm grossing $50k/yr. Come see my palatial 800 sq.ft. rental house in fabulous SoCal. I live like a king!


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## Spikesgirl

What Rigger? said:


> I'll disagree with that, and here's how: I do a grand total of about 90 minutes of work a night, get paid for a full eight hours. Why? Because for 20 minutes during that time all I *must do* is keep one human being alive 100 feet in the air on my automation rig.
> And that's **** hard to quantify.
> I'm grossing $50k/yr. Come see my palatial 800 sq.ft. rental house in fabulous SoCal. I live like a king!



I feel that you should get paid appropriately for the work that is being done. Responsibility is definitely a viable commodity. That's what I was pulling in when I was running the scen shop and all I had to do was keep the kiddos from chopping off their fingers, electrocuting themselves, screwing various parts of the their anatomy to the set, etc. i was one of the highest paid staff member on the campus because of it. Not because of the difficulty of the job, but because in 13 years, no one ever got seriously injured in my shop (excluding me of course). 

It would cost your company a lot more if you dropped someone.

BTW, try Northern California - it's a lot cheaper up here. You could upgrade to at least 1,000 square feet!

Charlie


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## soundop

"Their incomes set a new standard for blue-collar
workers."

I find the above stated offensive to theater techs everywhere...


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## Footer

soundop said:


> "Their incomes set a new standard for blue-collar
> workers."
> I find the above stated offensive to theater techs everywhere...



It's not white color office work, its blue collar work. No, its not working at a steel mill, but its physical work no matter what. You don't see people wearing suits the entire day at a gig.


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## punktech

nothing wrong with being blue-collar. it's not like they're saying any monkey with a c-wrench can do it. everyone gets that most blue collar jobs on the higher end of th pay scale require training.

i can see where nearly $400,000 would be considered by many to be a bit up there. even given the housing prices in NYC. in our modern world i highly doubt that there is only one breadwinner in a household (personally, i know i'm gonna need to find someone that can support my ass for a few years when the student loans are really hurting). 

the problem i'd say is not in the salaries, it's in our economy where a person actually needs that much money to live a middle class life. housing prices are insane, and gas is d**m sky high (which is truly bad as gas drives the price of everything else up, like food, you need to get it to the store and then you your self need to get it to the fridge, lots of cash!).

we need to fix our economy and then make sure everyone who has a job that requires (for many of us) extensive and costly training has a wage that they can live on and still pay back the numerous loans and mortgages.


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## avkid

I'm all for a living wage.
-
But first we need universal healthcare.


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## Footer

avkid said:


> But first we need universal healthcare.



Ya, Tell me about it! I don't want great healthcare, and I'll still pay for suplimental coverage, but at least basic "break your leg", "cut your arm off" healthcare would be just great. There is a really intersting thread over at lightnetwork about this from people around the world. Does AUS have universal healthcare?


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## Logos

Sort of. We have Medicare but you have to be unemployed to get everything for free and the waiting lists on public hospitals can be frightening for anything that isn't going to kill you tomorrow.
I understand that even unemployed and totally in pain you can wait up to four years for public dentistry.
Your gas by the way is about half as expensive as ours the last time I looked. We are paying about $1.40 AUD per litre which works out as approximately $5.60 to $6.00 per gallon.


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## Footer

Logos said:


> We are paying about $1.40 AUD per litre which works out as approximately $5.60 to $6.00 per gallon.



Well, the dollar being in the toilet doesn't help the conversion. Looking down the street right now, its a 3.29 here. And people ask me why I sold my big dodge truck and bought a tiny toyota corolla. Literally, my gas consumption cut in half (and I don't have to haul crap for anyone anymore!)


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## punktech

yeah i'm in a bind when it comes to cars. i can't afford much in gas but the cheapest cars i can buy (literally the only ones in my >$2000 USD price range) are Chevy S10s, which eat gas like there's no tomorrow. so either i can buy a car and never drive it or not buy a car. the second one sadly is not an option, i *NEED* a car where i live.


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## Footer

punktech said:


> yeah i'm in a bind when it comes to cars. i can't afford much in gas but the cheapest cars i can buy (literally the only ones in my >$2000 USD price range) are Chevy S10s, which eat gas like there's no tomorrow. so either i can buy a car and never drive it or not buy a car. the second one sadly is not an option, i *NEED* a car where i live.



Cheap foreign car. Don't buy a truck unless you can use it at least 2-3 times a week.


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## gafftaper

I'm currently helping with an all student production at the college. The kid running sound is full of crap and always telling some crazy tale. Tonight he told the S.M. he couldn't make it to rehearsal because he is under a contract to run sound for a concert and he gets paid $170 an hour for it.


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## avkid

gafftaper said:


> The kid running sound is full of crap and always telling some crazy tale. Tonight he told the S.M. he couldn't make it to rehearsal because he is under a contract to run sound for a concert and he gets paid $170 an hour for it.


Where is this?
I want in!!!


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## Footer

avkid said:


> Where is this?
> I want in!!!



Agreed, I could be A2 for 170 an hour. I'm in the wrong field....


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## Footer

charcoaldabs said:


> Can you provide more info about this student?



Abe Jacob?


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## Footer

charcoaldabs said:


> Hmm? I don't know what you're referring to.


The only person who should ever get paid 170 an hour to mix (thats 2.80 a minute BTW)

http://www.ibdb.com/person.asp?ID=71641


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## ReiRei

I'm a paid stagehand/light technician for the theatre attached to my high school. We get paid minimum wage ($7.95) minus all the taxes *makes a face of indignation and disgust* and we work ourselves to the bone. And you have to be really careful about payment in Ashland, even if someone tells you they're going to pay you, unless you get it in writing, they usually go back on their word... it bites...

In terms of gas, it's $3.19 where I'm at right now and with the money I make I still can't afford gas, I've started walking every where I go. I've driven a Chevy S10 as well, and currently I own a '94 Ford explorer, about 13-15mpg. And sometimes I even have to drive over to a lovely place called grants pass, that eats up gas like nothing else. I'm actually looking at a toyota pickup right now because it's cheap, toyota's don't break, and they normally have wonderful gas mileage... woo... wooooooo...


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## gafftaper

avkid said:


> Where is this?
> I want in!!!



I think it's "theater of the mind". 


Footer4321 said:


> Agreed, I could be A2 for 170 an hour. I'm in the wrong field....


I also need to point out that the genius who gets paid $170 per hour had no idea what a boundary mic is. 


charcoaldabs said:


> Can you provide more info about this student?


Um... he's full of crap. That's about all you need to know. 


Footer4321 said:


> Abe Jacob?


Now that my friends is someone with a truly impressive resume!


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## punktech

nice response gaff


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## gafftaper

punktech said:


> nice response gaff



I try to be thorough Punk.


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## Spikesgirl

ReiRei said:


> In terms of gas, it's $3.19 where I'm at right now and with the money I make I still can't afford gas, I've started walking every where I go. I've driven a Chevy S10 as well, and currently I own a '94 Ford explorer, about 13-15mpg. And sometimes I even have to drive over to a lovely place called grants pass, that eats up gas like nothing else. I'm actually looking at a toyota pickup right now because it's cheap, toyota's don't break, and they normally have wonderful gas mileage... woo... wooooooo...



We have an old Bronco (90) that I swear gets feet per gallon, not miles. Still it's reliable and large (I can carry seven -three Cybers and four Studios- robotics in the back), but it doesn't go out very much as I filled the tank yesterday at $3.89 a gallon - you need to take out a small loan to drive it.

The nice part about working at my current theater is that it's less than a 1/4 mile from our house. In fact, we moved here because of the theater - never thought I'd end up working at it. Love my new theater, but sure miss my old salary though...

Char5lie


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## achstechdirector

Definately, JUST SURVIVING.

I know a stagehand that works on Broadway and his wife has a full time job too


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## TheSlowPoisoner

I think 300k/year is fair to expect someone to put up with slave-like amounts of hours, verbal abuse, and social suicide. If anything, it's a little on the cheap side.

They're also forgetting to mention the people who make 20k-30k/year working those same hours, though.


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## hoff_2

I work for a small production company here in Kansas City, and I get paid $7 a rehearsal and $10 a show (not an hour). Obviously I am working here because of my love of tech theater and not the pay!


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## tech2000

I work for a school district and get paid $10/hr. to work events. Of course we really only get paid for half the time because they start setup really early or finish really late. Plus there aren't very many events each month.


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## lieperjp

My college pays for some events, for instance if the public is invited or if a public tour comes in. I think it's $7/hour. Theatre events are all volunteer work, which sucks because I put as many hours into that (or more) as I do at my actual job!!! But theatre is more fun...


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## ruinexplorer

TheSlowPoisoner said:


> I think 300k/year is fair to expect someone to put up with slave-like amounts of hours, verbal abuse, and social suicide. If anything, it's a little on the cheap side.
> 
> They're also forgetting to mention the people who make 20k-30k/year working those same hours, though.



I agree that the problem with this type of reporting is that they neglect to mention how many stagehands are living just above the poverty level. Most NY stagehands make between $60-70k, which is a barely a living wage there.

One of the biggest challenges I have is that when I tell people that I am a stagehand, I get "Oh yeah, I was (or a friend was) a techie in high school," as in "Grow up and get a real job." The difference is, I don't think most people realize the education and training that you need to be a professional in this field, including the employers. I get peeved by the companies who will hire anyone who can hold a wrench to become a stagehand. They're the ones who keep the wages down. 

I appreciate anyone who is willing to volunteer their time for causes they believe in (I used to run sound and maintain the lights for my church). I go nuts when it becomes expected that we donate our time! If acties or administration gets paid, so should we! Heck our lives are often at stake.

I know their are costs involved with insurance and the like, but you might be surprised at how much profit staging companies make off labor. I worked for an AV company making $15/hr and they charged $75. They also charged meal penalties, etc. but my pay never changed. Grrrr! I much preferred freelancing and getting a dayrate.


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## soundman

ruinexplorer said:


> One of the biggest challenges I have is that when I tell people that I am a stagehand, I get "Oh yeah, I was (or a friend was) a techie in high school," as in "Grow up and get a real job." The difference is, I don't think most people realize the education and training that you need to be a professional in this field, including the employers. * I get peeved by the companies who will hire anyone who can hold a wrench to become a stagehand. They're the ones who keep the wages down. *



They are also the ones that keep the price of renting gear and producing shows down. I might be blurring the line between shop tech and stage hand but if a company was to hire people who knew more than how to hold a wrench costs would sky rocket because they would not work for what is currently being offered. Truth be told the average grunt stagehand does not need to have more than the basics down, lefty loosie righty tighty, upstage, downstage in and out. Working periodic ins and outs for the last few years no one has asked me anything about balancing the phases equally or if the truss is deflecting too much and they really do need that other point. They are happy if I know the correct way to bolt truss together and show up on time. 

Now on installs or one off shows where things aren't so well prepared or they haven't been done in 20 cities before that sort of knowledge can be vital and necessary if it is your venue and you need to put your foot down to protect lives or property but those people are going to cost money and rightly so. Getting Bill Sapsis to come in and pull points for your show might be the best way to make sure it gets done correctly but good lucking getting someone to foot the bill (pun 100% accidental if at all).

sorry about the derail


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## ruinexplorer

soundman said:


> They are also the ones that keep the price of renting gear and producing shows down. I might be blurring the line between shop tech and stage hand but if a company was to hire people who knew more than how to hold a wrench costs would sky rocket because they would not work for what is currently being offered. Truth be told the average grunt stagehand does not need to have more than the basics down, lefty loosie righty tighty, upstage, downstage in and out. Working periodic ins and outs for the last few years no one has asked me anything about balancing the phases equally or if the truss is deflecting too much and they really do need that other point. They are happy if I know the correct way to bolt truss together and show up on time.
> 
> Now on installs or one off shows where things aren't so well prepared or they haven't been done in 20 cities before that sort of knowledge can be vital and necessary if it is your venue and you need to put your foot down to protect lives or property but those people are going to cost money and rightly so. Getting Bill Sapsis to come in and pull points for your show might be the best way to make sure it gets done correctly but good lucking getting someone to foot the bill (pun 100% accidental if at all).
> 
> sorry about the derail



No appology necessary. I agree 100% that you don't need someone of the caliber of Bill Sapsis for for every rigging job. Nor do you need someone who can balance phases or many other highly technical jobs. I disagree that by keeping wages down that automatically keeps gear prices down. Rental companies are not the staging companies which I referred. Most rental companies actually pay slightly higher wages because they want to keep their gear marketable. In Phoenix, the company that had cheaper gear and paid their staff lower wages was the company that no one trusted. No suprise, they are no longer in business.

I also disagree with your required skills of the average grunt stagehand. They need to understand how things fail so that they can be the extra eyes for the show crew. They need to be able to visually check each light to make sure nothing will fall and that there are no electrical problems. I as a crew lead need to make sure that I can trust the stagehands installing the gear that they have tightened every bolt (and not overtightened it) before I fly my rig, I don't have the time to check everyone's work. The sad truth is that road crews have to expect that their local crews are inexperienced, so they often don't ask you to do complicated tasks. As I stated in a different thread, safety is a huge factor in our business. Even though we may know what we are doing and are highly capable technicians, some meathead may end up costing us our career by his inability and lack of knowledge.

When I was a TD for a venue, I always made sure to plan in the extra time to train my crews (if I was forced to hire from those staging companies). In the end, it would have been better for the companies to pay more per hour and they could have had better stagehands for less (that company charged $21/hour and paid $7-10, trained union stagehands earned $15-16 an hour at the time). I often had to pull favors and hire friends for cheap just to make sure that I could get gigs done right. I worked for other TDs for low wage for the same reason. I understand budgets, I understand what it takes to get the job done right, and I feel that there is some serious neglect in our industry. To help combat lack of experience, I offered free training sessions. One of the rental companies that I worked for did the same (protection of investment). Adjusted payscales are not unheard of; a box pusher does not need to earn the same as an electrician, but if I'm hiring an electrician, I don't want a box pusher.


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## Serendipity

Footer4321 said:


> It's not white color office work, its blue collar work. No, its not working at a steel mill, but its physical work no matter what. You don't see people wearing suits the entire day at a gig.



Black-collar worker.




charcoaldabs said:


> I should work in a city with a decent public transportation system.



Agreed!




gafftaper said:


> I'm currently helping with an all student production at the college. The kid running sound is full of crap and always telling some crazy tale. Tonight he told the S.M. he couldn't make it to rehearsal because he is under a contract to run sound for a concert and he gets paid $170 an hour for it.




Yeah, but is he only being paid for the length of the show? How long is the show?




ReiRei said:


> I'm a paid stagehand/light technician for the theatre attached to my high school. We get paid minimum wage ($7.95) minus all the taxes *makes a face of indignation and disgust* and we work ourselves to the bone.



Try to be glad you get paid. :] I do all my work at the arts high school for the overwhelming passion and love and magic I feel when engaging in this splendid craft...  Actually, they tried to make us pay fees to work shows. The TD came up with a spreadsheet of how much a union crew would cost them. Needless to say, we don't pay to work.

But honestly, I do love this.



Gas here is REALLY DIRT CHEAP-- $4.09!
I'm serious, that's the sad part. The same station was $4.59 a couple of months ago.


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## ruinexplorer

Serendipity said:


> Try to be glad you get paid. :] I do all my work at the arts high school for the overwhelming passion and love and magic I feel when engaging in this splendid craft...  Actually, they tried to make us pay fees to work shows. The TD came up with a spreadsheet of how much a union crew would cost them. Needless to say, we don't pay to work.



Just wait for college. That's all you do.


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## cdub260

What Rigger? said:


> I'll disagree with that, and here's how: I do a grand total of about 90 minutes of work a night, get paid for a full eight hours. Why? Because for 20 minutes during that time all I *must do* is keep one human being alive 100 feet in the air on my automation rig.
> And that's **** hard to quantify.
> I'm grossing $50k/yr. Come see my palatial 800 sq.ft. rental house in fabulous SoCal. I live like a king!



Thats not too far off from what I make when overtime and events are added to my salary, and yet I'm still able to pay the mortgage on my 650 sq. ft. condo.


Footer4321 said:


> It's not white color office work, its blue collar work. No, its not working at a steel mill, but its physical work no matter what. You don't see people wearing suits the entire day at a gig.



Aren't we more on the lines of *black collar* workers? After all, an almost entirely black wardrobe is one of our occupational hazards.


punktech said:


> yeah i'm in a bind when it comes to cars. i can't afford much in gas but the cheapest cars i can buy (literally the only ones in my >$2000 USD price range) are Chevy S10s, which eat gas like there's no tomorrow. so either i can buy a car and never drive it or not buy a car. the second one sadly is not an option, i *NEED* a car where i live.



I've been there. Of course, here in Southern California with our almost non-existent public transportation, (The nearest bus stop is 2 miles from my house.) a car is absolutely necessary if you want to work in this industry.


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## cdub260

Serendipity said:


> Black-collar worker.



Hey! No fair! You beat me to it!


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## cdub260

Serendipity said:


> Try to be glad you get paid. :] I do all my work at the arts high school for the overwhelming passion and love and magic I feel when engaging in this splendid craft...  Actually, they tried to make us pay fees to work shows. The TD came up with a spreadsheet of how much a union crew would cost them. Needless to say, we don't pay to work.



All your work? Does that mean we don't have to pay you anymore?


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## Serendipity

cdub260 said:


> All your work? Does that mean we don't have to pay you anymore?



I believe it was "all my work at the arts high school". Not "all my followspot work for C-dub's tableau vivant show" or "all my freelance technical or design work" in case any other people I've worked with are on here getting any smart ideas...  
Hehehee.


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## Mullet1215

Actors are in theatre for the money (and an atempt at getting famous) 
Technicians and Stage hands are in it for doing something that were good at that isnt deathly boring.


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## cdub260

Mullet1215 said:


> Actors are in theatre for the money (and an atempt at getting famous)
> Technicians and Stage hands are in it for doing something that were good at that isnt deathly boring.



And yet, almost every actor I know earns a living by waiting tables.


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## derekleffew

Another rehash of the same story:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanad...uld-stage-hands-at-carnegie-hall-make-400000/
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...agehands-Making-on-Average-419-000-End-Strike


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## Footer

Students will be allowed to move their own music stands.... what an honor. It does take some serious skill to move drums and marimbas... That is why every drum tech I have ever worked with is always the smartest person on the show...


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## SteveB

Footer said:


> Students will be allowed to move their own music stands.... what an honor. It does take some serious skill to move drums and marimbas... That is why every drum tech I have ever worked with is always the smartest person on the show...



That was never the issue. The issue was whether Carnegie was going to have students, or non-union stagehands load n the rental piano, or extra sound gear needed for an event (cause you know that's going to happen), or go up in a Genie to change the blown S4 lamps. Carnegie refused to bargain for those (few) positions (13 months and no deal). Carnegie made a lot of noise about "how Local One doesn't work in educational venues", when they knew full well that was not the case.

The local currently represents professional stagehands at something like 7 of the City University campuses, all which have educational programs in the performing arts. The contracts recognize under what circumstances a Local One person is to be hired, typically when a professional is needed to go find all the scattered music stands around the building that the students won't remember to put back in storage. Or to turn on tthe lighting or sound systems that the students (usually a drummer) or professors haven't a clue to operate. And to make sure all the systems and equipment is working for the performance. That's what professionals do. Yes, it could have been done by lower paid non-union that Carnegie could hire, but the Local's attitude was "we represent stagehands in this building already, have done so for 100 years and want our members to work in the new space(s)". Nothing wrong in that.

As to the $400,000 per year ?. The contract for the new space calls for one or two Local One crew as staff. They will certainly not be making $400,000. The CUNY rate is about $25-$28 per hour. though I would imagine the add'l Carnegie rate will be loser to the $38 that is typical for the local. If they work 40 hrs for the entire year they might make $78,000 or so. Not bad, but not great either for NYC. One of the positions I think is going to be an apprentice position as well, so they make a lot less.

Bottom line was that Carnegie was trying to break the power the local had in a performance space where the management demands perfection and gets it, every show. That's why the heads live at the theater during the season and make $400,000, to make sure everything is perfect. And FWIW, I have NEVER heard or read from anyone in the Carnegie management complain in the press about those $400,00 salaries. That's cause they know the folks earned it.


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