# Control System for Musical Fountain Show



## mishakoz (Nov 10, 2011)

Hello guys!

I'm designing a musical fountain show for Christmas this year. Approx. 20 fountain each equipped with an LED par (bottom lit), and a mist screen with projector. I need a control system that will be able to handle all of this. Overall, 6 4ch dimmer packs will be used, 20+ 4ch led pars will be used, and about 22 water pumps. Because this will be the type of show where everything is done automatically, I'm going to go with PC dmx control. There are a lot of options out there and not a lot of information about them, so I'm asking for help. I need the software to be able to control video, audio, and a dmx timeline, at least 200 channels of dmx. Also, 3 pin system.

I like the Chauvet xpress dongles, not the 100 because it does have enough channels, but the other two. Only problem is they seem overpriced to me. Given the scale of the show, it's not a huge deal and I know the software will get the job done and the ability to store shows is a big plus, but I don't want to overpay for something that I can get accomplished with a cheaper USB/dmx interface.

To sum up, I need a control system that will control a dmx timeline with about 200 channels, projection video, audio synced with both. Big pluses is software with 3D render, and ability to run without a computer. 

Thanks guys!


(unrelated question: is there anyway to get the Luminair iPad dmx control to work with any pc control systems? That would be a huge plus)


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## chausman (Nov 10, 2011)

Welcome to Controlbooth! Take a moment to introduce your self in the New Members Forum!

Chamsys MaciQ is very popular for computerized lighting control. 

They have a $16 USD dongle that will control up to 512 channels (addresses) but with a limit of 5 hours at once, then you have to restart the program. It does have a steep learning curve though.

Chamsys also has 2 universe dongles that have no limit on time. (I can't find the price on it though...) Or there is also a PC wing you could buy that allows you to use their Chamsys App to control your system wirelessly.


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## Van (Nov 10, 2011)

mishakoz said:


> ...To sum up, I need a control system that will control a dmx timeline with about 200 channels, projection video, audio synced with both. Big pluses is software with 3D render, and ability to run without a computer. ....


 
You need an integrated control system that does all that and you think the systems you've seen out there are overpriced ?

Here ya go
ACCESS 4.0

< the posting of this link does not imply any endorsement of this companies product or products byt either myself of Controlbooth.com. It is provided simply as a navigational/informational tool.>


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## mishakoz (Nov 10, 2011)

chausman said:


> Welcome to Controlbooth! Take a moment to introduce your self in the New Members Forum!
> 
> Chamsys MaciQ is very popular for computerized lighting control.
> 
> ...



ill introduce myself soon, thanks for the welcome. 

See, i would like to understand why some of these USB dongles cost $16 and then $400. If i can get a usb dongle that can at least control a dmx timeline, then the other things im sure i can fudge. 

Unfortunately, i dont think the 5 hour program will work, since ideally this will go on its own every night at a specific time, and also have a sort of "idle" mode.

Ill look into the other options you listed, thanks.





Van said:


> You need an integrated control system that does all that and you think the systems you've seen out there are overpriced ?
> 
> Here ya go
> ACCESS 4.0
> ...



I am in talks with them about that particular system. However, They have a really poorly constructed website as well as other worrying tidbits that make me concerned about their business structure, such as a full email box when i tried to email them and an apparent lack of spam filtering from what they seem to say. Some first hand testimonials with them would be great.


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## DuckJordan (Nov 10, 2011)

It's all about dependability. The 16 dollar one is like a small mass manufactured bottle rocket... could light correctly or it might not you never know... the 600 one is like a finally mortar that will go off in one light exactly as predicted.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## derekleffew (Nov 10, 2011)

I wonder what they use for


or

or even

?

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mishakoz said:


> ... Also, 3 pin system. ...


I don't think I'd make something so easily solved with a $10 adapter, 5-3 a priority.


mishakoz said:


> ... is there anyway to get the Luminair iPad dmx control to work with any pc control systems? That would be a huge plus)


I believe that any Art-Net to DMX, or sACN, converter will work with Luminair. From Luminair 2.3 - Wireless DMX lighting control for iPhone + iPod touch :

> Simply connect an Art-Net or sACN E1.31 to DMX interface to your Wi-Fi router and lighting equipment. Luminair is compatible with any standard Wi-Fi router, and supports all existing security standards such as WPA, and WEP for keeping your network secure.


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## mishakoz (Nov 10, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> I wonder what they use for
> ?



From my research, the first two use custom control systems. Dunno about the 3rd.

World of Color uses stuff from these people www.thefountainpeople.com


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## n1ist (Nov 10, 2011)

I'd look into Vixen or LOR; both are used by the animated Christmas lighting folks. Not sure if either can sync to video, however. 

/mike


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## chausman (Nov 10, 2011)

mishakoz said:


> From my research, the first two use custom control systems. Dunno about the 3rd.


 
I believe that was Derek's subtle way of saying you should ask him. From his website, it looks like he's worked on those.


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## ScottT (Nov 11, 2011)

mishakoz said:


> From my research, the first two use custom control systems.



You sure about that? 


chausman said:


> I believe that was Derek's subtle way of saying you should ask him. From his website, it looks like he's worked on those.



Or you could run a google search and come up with this result: The Bellagio Hotel Bets on Robust, Reliable Echelon Control System


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## derekleffew (Nov 11, 2011)

ScottT said:


> You sure about that?
> 
> Or you could run a google search and come up with this result: The Bellagio Hotel Bets on Robust, Reliable Echelon Control System


Oh, it's *much* more complicated and convoluted than sourcing everything from one company; as if that were even possible. In addition to Echelon (which BTW, I'd never heard of) and White Rabbit, there's equipment/systems/gear from WET Design, RA Gray, Allen-Bradley, Alcorn-McBride, Peavey, Crest, ETC, Wybron, MEE Fog, Sullair. The vendor list is/was about five single-spaced pages long.


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## ScottT (Nov 11, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Oh, it's *much* more complicated and convoluted than sourcing everything from one company; as if that were even possible. In addition to Echelon (which BTW, I'd never heard of) and White Rabbit, there's equipment/systems/gear from WET Design, RA Gray, Allen-Bradley, Alcorn-McBride, Peavey, Crest, ETC, Wybron, MEE Fog, Sullair. The vendor list is/was about five single-spaced pages long.



WET Design designed and produced the oarsmen (the moving jets), and a bunch of other stuff. As to what everyone else did... Well I'd just be guessing at that point.

So who produced the control interface? How does the operator interact with timecode that controls the display? What was your role?


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## wakkoroti (Nov 19, 2011)

GrandMa2's for the Disney one 

One low cost option for the scope of work you're looking at that is low cost is that light o Rama thing.



derekleffew said:


> I wonder what they use for


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## silicsound (Nov 19, 2011)

I would recommend Show Cue System 10 or Qlab for the A/V part of the show. And if you have the time and are good with computers you can make a Pure Data patch to translate the MIDI cues from either program to DMX. I will warn you though Pure Data is not a very reliable program. 
Also, out of curiosity do you plan to control the pumps with the dimmer packs? Because SCR dimmers and inductive loads, like a pump do not work well together. Using them together could cause both pieces of equipment being destroyed.


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## mishakoz (Nov 19, 2011)

silicsound said:


> I would recommend Show Cue System 10 or Qlab for the A/V part of the show. And if you have the time and are good with computers you can make a Pure Data patch to translate the MIDI cues from either program to DMX. I will warn you though Pure Data is not a very reliable program.
> Also, out of curiosity do you plan to control the pumps with the dimmer packs? Because SCR dimmers and inductive loads, like a pump do not work well together. Using them together could cause both pieces of equipment being destroyed.



Already tested the pumps with dimmer packs. Works great. It's a lot of stress on the pumps, but get a good pump and it's nothing they can't handle. Also, I'm using solenoid valves with a select few of the pumps, which lowers the stress.

To everyone, I've decided on the Chauvet. I need reliability and durability, which is what I feel like I would get with it. Thanks for the comments guys, it really helped make my decision, because I never even considered durability. Plus, it works with a iPad app and it also has another optional remote.

Once I start working on the show in december I will post back here with videos and pictures. Thanks guys!


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## mishakoz (Jan 9, 2012)

So, i wasn't able to go anywhere near finishing the project. money became an issue, so i will now be working on it for a longer period of time. Just want to say that i really like how the Chauvet xpress turned out, great little thing that it is. the software is pretty sweet.

And those who want to see as far as i went, 
Michael's World of Color Test - YouTube

Proof that pumps can be controlled by dimmer packs.


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## museav (Jan 9, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Oh, it's *much* more complicated and convoluted than sourcing everything from one company; as if that were even possible. In addition to Echelon (which BTW, I'd never heard of) and White Rabbit, there's equipment/systems/gear from WET Design, RA Gray, Allen-Bradley, Alcorn-McBride, Peavey, Crest, ETC, Wybron, MEE Fog, Sullair. The vendor list is/was about five single-spaced pages long.


I think it is pretty common for some of those types of systems to have multiple levels of show control elements. I recall some of the Cirque shows using the LCS multichannel audio systems (now the Meyer D-Mitri) and its software to address the audio routing with those cues triggered by another source (and that may have been running off some other master controller). And at one time Disney was even using AMX for some show control applications (I've used AMX and Crestron to control lighting, audio and other systems for canned museum and product display type shows, but never for a Disney type of show).


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## SJ2007 (Feb 9, 2016)

Hey guys,

I good friend of me controls his fountain with software and hardware from germany. I will ask him about the name.

I will keep you up to date.


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