# Looking for some wisdom on Seating.



## JChenault (Aug 21, 2009)

My theatre is considering converting a storage room into a new smallish thrust stage ( About 100 seats). Over most of the seating area, the ceiling is 10-6 above finished floor. Our plan is to have the audience enter the space on built in platforms 2-0 above the floor ( leaving 8-6 from platform to ceiling ). We need to have four rows of seats in the new space.

First question - what would you pick for riser heights. Would you rather have 6 inch risers for your seating, and have the lowest row of seats be distinct from the stage, or would you rather go for 8 inch risers and have the last row of audience sitting on the same level as the stage floor. ( or some other idea given the ceiling height and the need for four rows)

My artistic director likes the idea of doing some cabaret in the space. To do this we would either 

Make the seats removable, bring in filler platforms to give us wider table areas. IE instead of two 3 foot wide platforms with a 6 inch rise, we would create a 6 foot side platform with a 12 inch rise.
Build the risers as movable units that we could roll into the scene shop - chairs and all.

Second question. What experiences have you had with these kinds of solutions for converting spaces, and what would you recommend.

Thanks in advance.

John


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## jessamarie6 (Aug 21, 2009)

I work in lots of small spaces like the one you are describing and I find that having the first row of seats on level with the stage usually works out just fine. As an added benefit it is very convenient to be able to pull out a couple of chairs and have easy handicapped seating without having to deal with ramps and hand rails. 
I would recommend making the risers removable if you are planning to convert regularly to a cabaret space. Or if anything instead of putting two rows of risers at the same height to make room for cafe tables, reverse it. Move your platforms into the middle of the room for this configuration. Have your audience at floor level and construct a slightly raised "stage".


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## Van (Aug 21, 2009)

Both of our theaters are converted spaces and both have the first row of seating on the "deck" as it were. The first riser row in the Main stage is at 16", which makes for one 8" step between each riser section. The first riser row in the Second stage is at 21" which makes for two 7" rise steps in between each riser section. Since you have such limited Height I would suggest you place your first row on the deck, However there are issues with this if you aren't actually doing 3/4 or modified 3/4 round seating. I didn't know why but if you put people straight in front of a stage and the first row is at deck height you will never hear the end of complaints about blocked sight lines etc. However as soon as you open the seating on the other two sides of the stage there never seems to be a complaint even though the patrons are at the same elevation. Weird. 

A thing to consider about rise heights is Local building codes, nationally accepted maximum rise height per step is 7", however.... a lot of times this can be modified to 8" on temporary seating facilities. Another important factor in consistency, you are much more likely to pass a building inspection if the rise height between treads is consistent. That is to say that you can quite often get away with an 8" rise as long as all the rises are 8" changing rise height in the middle of a run of stairs is a BIG no no. 

Landings, Often times the Landing width is required to be three times the width of the tread width. So if you are using a 7"x 11" rise/run then you minimum width of a landing must be 33" this is important to remember when you're planning seating, why? because it will greatly affect the amount of leg room your patrons have. Our seating risers maintain a 7/12 and 8/12 ration so our seating rows are at 36". If, however, you are using a wider than normal seat or if , God forbid, you are planning on using some type of Folding chair you will need a wider landing, row width. 
*Quick note on using folding chairs as permanent seating;* Fire codes in most jurisdictions require temporary seating to be connected to each other < inter-locking seats> and / or have an automatically folding seat, or both. The idea is that if you just throw regular folding chairs in a seating row and there happens to be an emergency the first person to catch his/her foot on a chair leg or seat is going to trip or move that seat into the aisle making it impossible for people behind that person to quickly leave the theater. 

One last thing to consider you need to have 7'2" between the height of the last row and the lowest point of the ceiling above to be within building codes for most jurisdictions. For theatres this can be an issue because Many an Architect / designer / whomever usually forgets there is most likely going to be a grid, which is x inches from the ceiling and then there is the length of the average lighting instrument hanging from that grid. Once you factor in the C-clamp, the yoke half the longitudinal width of the plus the distance of a fully extended shutter arm you are looking at around 21 - 24". And, really, do you want shutters at a height where your average height man can easily reach up and play with them ? 

I hope some of this has been helpful and will help you come up with some determining factors. My short answer would be to go with the shortest rise and longest run possible. 6" should be adequate for most people to see over the tops of people in front of them as long as the seating is offset.


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## museav (Aug 23, 2009)

Van said:


> A thing to consider about rise heights is Local building codes, nationally accepted maximum rise height per step is 7", however.... a lot of times this can be modified to 8" on temporary seating facilities. Another important factor in consistency, you are much more likely to pass a building inspection if the rise height between treads is consistent. That is to say that you can quite often get away with an 8" rise as long as all the rises are 8" changing rise height in the middle of a run of stairs is a BIG no no.


A little off topic and perhaps already addressed, but converting a Storage space to a performance space, or more generically a Public Assembly space, will likely have numerous code implications. Some of the code related requirements related to the seating may be affected by whether the seating is considered to be permanent or portable/temporary. If you don't have an Architect and/or code compliance expert involved, you may want to consider doing so as soon as possible. If you are going to have to add sprinkler systems, expand or modify HVAC and electrical systems, install ramps or lifts, modify walls to get required fire ratings, add additional exiting paths and so forth. it is probably best to know these issues as soon as possible.


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## derekleffew (Aug 23, 2009)

(All of the above make excellent points, so I'll add more of a personal opinion/aesthetic than building code or fact.) 

I dislike seeing audience sitting on the same level as that upon which the actors are performing, even in a black box or "intimate" setting. But then, I'm a "Never break the fourth wall" kind of guy. If the first row of audience must be seated in the floor, leave at least a 36" wide aisle and then create a stage 6" high (lower becomes a trip hazard and anything higher than 8" is difficult to navigate).

So to the OP's first question: three rows of 8" risers with the front row on the floor AND a stage 6" high. The point about staggering the seating between rows is a very important one, even if only psychological. Installed theatre seats vary in width from ~18"-22" to allow for staggering and still keep the ends of the rows uniform. It's doubtful you'll have this luxury in portable seating.
To the second: for cabaret-style seating, remove all the risers except the stage. Ordinarily, I'd be all for putting the audience risers in the middle, except that your ceiling height is so limited.


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## JChenault (Aug 23, 2009)

museav said:


> A little off topic and perhaps already addressed, but converting a Storage space to a performance space, or more generically a Public Assembly space, will likely have numerous code implications. Some of the code related requirements related to the seating may be affected by whether the seating is considered to be permanent or portable/temporary. If you don't have an Architect and/or code compliance expert involved, you may want to consider doing so as soon as possible. If you are going to have to add sprinkler systems, expand or modify HVAC and electrical systems, install ramps or lifts, modify walls to get required fire ratings, add additional exiting paths and so forth. it is probably best to know these issues as soon as possible.



We do have an architect involved and are tracking these issues. There is no way we would even consider doing something like this without the help of an architect. Not just for code issues ( which are vital to get right and expensive if you don't) but for pure design and layout issues.

But thanks for making sure.

John


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## JChenault (Aug 23, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> (All of the above make excellent points, so I'll add more of a personal opinion/aesthetic than building code or fact.)



Personal / aesthetic is more of what I am looking for. I believe we have the building codes covered. Thanks for the comment.



> To the second: for cabaret-style seating, remove all the risers except the stage. Ordinarily, I'd be all for putting the audience risers in the middle, except that your ceiling height is so limited.



A couple of folks have made this comment - but I am not clear on how it would work. What may not be clear is that the existing lobby is 21 inches above the finished floor of the room. The plan is to provide a ramp to get from 21 inches to 24 inches to a circulation area behind the seats. If we removed all of the seating risers, we would have no way of getting the audience down onto the stage floor ( ADA access ) unless we put in a wheelchair ramp.

Thanks for the feedback.
John


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