# Best Way to Light a Cyc



## jack63ss (Dec 31, 2012)

I just made a post about trying to light my cyc with fresnels but this is a more general question. I am looking for opinions on the best type of fixtures to use to light a cyc and where to position them ? I could see how scoops, light bars, and flat panels could do it, but I am looking for input on what works and what doesn't. My cyc is 15'x40', so the solution needs to scale.
Thanks
Jack


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## techieman33 (Dec 31, 2012)

The main ways people light them are with cyc lights or strip lights. It should be pretty easy to rent either of those in the boston area for not a lot of money.


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## chausman (Dec 31, 2012)

Do you have pictures of those flat panels? Or a make/model?


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## Les (Jan 1, 2013)

jack63ss said:


> I am looking for opinions on the best type of fixtures to use to light a cyc and where to position them ?



Well, probably the best way to light a cyc is by using the purpose-built Cyc Lights positioned anywhere from 6-8 feet [-]upstage[/-] downstage of the cyc. With any other fixtures, it is just trial and error depending on what you're using and the height of the surface you are lighting. You could also go with a groundrow (or both). 






See also: cyc light - ControlBooth


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## techieman33 (Jan 1, 2013)

Les said:


> Well, probably the best way to light a cyc is by using the purpose-built Cyc Lights positioned anywhere from 6-8 feet upstage of the cyc. With any other fixtures, it is just trial and error depending on what you're using and the height of the surface you are lighting. You could also go with a groundrow (or both).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He meant position them downstage of the cyc, not upstage.


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## Les (Jan 1, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> He meant position them downstage of the cyc, not upstage.



Oops, yes. Fixed.


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## jglodeklights (Jan 1, 2013)

Yes, cyc fixtures are ideal due to their asymetrical reflector design providing a significantly more even wash from top to bottom than other types of fixtures. Of note, though, is that different models of cyc fixtures require different spacing from the cyc and from each other dependent upon the height of your cyc and the brightness you want. For example, the Altman Spectra CYC 100 LED cyc lights my theater are effective at evenly lighting our 16' cyc from a distance of 4' away and 5'-6" away from each other in order to get the intensity we need. If you can't get your instruments further away from the cyc, you'll need more of them in order to evenly light the cyc left to right. 

Now, downstage or upstage actually depends on the type of cyc you have. If you have a leno filled scrim, attempting to light from upstage will not work. It can work with muslin, natural or synthetic, but downstage is definitely going to be punchier. Some theaters also use cycs made from front and/or rear projection material. With a front/rear material you can light from either side as necessary, but with a rear projection material you really should light from upstage.


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## dgourley (Jan 1, 2013)

Agreed. The best way to light a CYC is with a Cyc unit itself. Having done countless demos in countless spaces with every other unit you can imagine put next to them, Asymmetrical CYC units win hands down.

That is all. THANKS!


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## gafftaper (Jan 1, 2013)

One important factor to consider in lighting the cyc for the first time is if you will be able to properly light the rest of the stage without light spilling onto the cyc. The light pastel colors you want for front light on your actors' faces will obliterate all of the deep colors you want on the cyc. So you may need to alter the way you have traditionally lit the rest of the stage in order to keep the cyc isolated and only lit by your cyc lights. As you move towards the upstage areas you will need to light the stage with increasingly steeper angles, to keep the front light off the cyc. This also means that your performers blocking needs to change from past blocking as they need to stay a few feet downstage of the cyc so that they will be properly lit.


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## kicknargel (Jan 2, 2013)

The next most common cyc light (at least before the LED revolution) is MR16 mini-strips (also know as zip strips, and other names). If you don't have the grid space to get your cyc lights 4-6ish feet downstage of the cyc, these can get closer. Not as even top-to-bottom coverage, however.


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## Grog12 (Jan 2, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> He meant position them downstage of the cyc, not upstage.




Les said:


> Oops, yes. Fixed.



Why? If its a seemless cyc the best place to light it from is from US imho.

Also not all cyc lights are created equal, always always always look at the spec sheets for your fixtures before deciding on cyc light placement for guide lines on best height and distance.


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## gafftaper (Jan 3, 2013)

Grog12 said:


> Why? If its a seemless cyc the best place to light it from is from US imho.



An excellent point. Depending on the cyc and the fixtures, you can get a more even look by lighting the cyc from behind. On the other hand if the cyc has seems, if the fabric is a little too thick, or your fixtures are a bit weak, it can look bad or be too dim to really pop the colors the way you want. It's a your mileage may vary sort of deal, but definitely worth experimenting if you have the space on stage to move your lighting behind the cyc.


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## chausman (Jan 4, 2013)

You can add "The cyc is on the last lineset and there is no other place to hang fixtures." to the list of reasons to light the cyc from DS.


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## shiben (Jan 5, 2013)

That seems to be an incredibly common reason that I run into. That or "The cyc is a wall we painted white".


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## Lou9x9 (Jan 5, 2013)

In my school we have a color wash on some gelled foot lights about 5 feet away from the cyc. we get some saw toothing but it's no big deal. no one notices. we angle it downward and if you're standing all the back to the cyc you'll barelly get top light from it. it gives nice background work for any production. but can get old fast if you don't know what you're doing (obviously).


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## alyx92 (Jan 6, 2013)

Anyone have a preference as to hanging the CYC fixtures from a lineset vs. doing a ground row?


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## techieman33 (Jan 6, 2013)

alyx92 said:


> Anyone have a preference as to hanging the CYC fixtures from a lineset vs. doing a ground row?



It depends on what you have to work with, some cyc lights are designed to be used from the air, and some from the ground. I generally prefer lighting from the air, and adding a ground row if necessary though.


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## gafftaper (Jan 6, 2013)

In a well designed theater there is really no negative to hanging lights but there are lots of potential negatives to ground row. 

Ground Rows are:
-Potentially in the way. 
-Potentially a trip hazard.
-Depending on the set they may be visible. 
-Potentially require the director to alter blocking. 

The biggest hassle with hanging cyc lights is aiming and possibly circuiting (if you don't have enough power in the right place). However, considering this is something you usually hang and don't mess with except for maintenance, in the long run it's far less labor and hassle than a ground row.

All that said, sometimes you need a ground row and that's just something you have to deal with.


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## shiben (Jan 6, 2013)

> Anyone have a preference as to hanging the CYC fixtures from a lineset vs. doing a ground row?



Its also worth noting that sometimes the look that a groundrow can achieve is more desirable for the production than lighting from the air. Sometimes (a lot of the time) you might want both, so you can do cool effects to make the sky look more realistic. I find it really depends on my space considerations (where do I have circuits, where is it realistic to put lights, how many can I afford, etc) and what the cyc wants to look like for any given production. I tend to find that the issues associated with a groundrow in terms of space are best addressed by throwing a black scrim DS of the whole operation and having that in from the initial discussion. It makes the cyc go away pretty well, and just takes that space off the table ASAP, and avoids a lot of trip hazard and visibility bits. Either way, its a discussion that needs to be had.


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## lwinters630 (Jan 6, 2013)

I am using Vivid R from ETC and I am very pleased with them. They will blend any color, are very even, run quiet and cool (LED RGBA), use less power (I.E. one 20amp crt) no changing gels, and are very bright. Often I only have to run at 60 to 80 pct.

Yes they are pricey but you asked the best way. IMHO


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## gafftaper (Jan 6, 2013)

lwinters630 said:


> I am using Vivid R from ETC and I am very pleased with them.... Yes they are pricey but you asked the best way. IMHO



How large is your cyc and how many Vivids does it take to light it?


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 6, 2013)

My cyc is 42'x24' and lit with 16 Desire D40 Vivids. It is possible to achieve a mid cyc horizon line depending on lens choice. Note that there is also the classic Vivid striplight that is available single or multiple cell configuration.


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## Lou9x9 (Jan 6, 2013)

but ground rows usually only end up close to the cyc then though. pushed back by blocking constraints from the actors so how do you avoid getting saw toothing while still being space efficient? and also i havn't met a director yet who'd allow having lights on their stage.


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## techieman33 (Jan 6, 2013)

Lou9x9 said:


> In my school we have a color wash on some gelled foot lights about 5 feet away from the cyc. we get some saw toothing but it's no big deal. no one notices. we angle it downward and if you're standing all the back to the cyc you'll barelly get top light from it. it gives nice background work for any production. but can get old fast if you don't know what you're doing (obviously).




Lou9x9 said:


> but ground rows usually only end up close to the cyc then though. pushed back by blocking constraints from the actors so how do you avoid getting saw toothing while still being space efficient? and also i havn't met a director yet who'd allow having lights on their stage.



Using cyc silk, either by buying your gel with the silk embedded in the sheet of color (only a few color options available) or by adding n/c silk on top of your color will help to eliminate the "saw toothing", aka scalloping.
.


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## shiben (Jan 6, 2013)

Lou9x9 said:


> but ground rows usually only end up close to the cyc then though. pushed back by blocking constraints from the actors so how do you avoid getting saw toothing while still being space efficient? .



You use frost like techieman33 said, and you use them on strip lights pushed as close together as you can, and sometimes you use multiple rows of strip lights.


> and also i havn't met a director yet who'd allow having lights on their stage



That is truly unfortunate. Footlights and groundrows are only the start of the various things you can mount on the stage deck. Also you can put lights in the stage. Its pretty boss.


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## JDurnford2011 (Jan 7, 2013)

Agreed. Cyc lights are the best method to light cyc curtains as they have a nice wash and throw. Now if you want to go with LEDs Id reccomend ColorForce 72's as they have an amazing look.

You can see a show I did with them here.



If you have any questions on how they operate let me know. These in my opinion are the best LED bars on the market and they are made by Chroma Q. They come in all different sizes.

-
Justin Durnford
Lighting Specialist


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## Lou9x9 (Jan 7, 2013)

i'm using strip lights so will it become defused enough to eliminate scalloping? like it doesn't in practice on my stage but speaking hypothetically is it the delusion that eliminates the effect?


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## derekleffew (Jan 7, 2013)

Lou9x9 said:


> ...is it the delusion that eliminates the effect?


Yes, one should always use delusion media in psyche lights.


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## gafftaper (Jan 7, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> Yes, one should always use delusion media in psyche lights.


LOL. What an AWESOME typo. 

Yes "silk" diffusion media will help to eliminate scalloping. You will see that it has parallel lines going through it that attempt spread the light in one dimension but not the other. Be careful which way you put the gel in.


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## Grog12 (Jan 8, 2013)

chausman said:


> You can add "The cyc is on the last lineset and there is no other place to hang fixtures." to the list of reasons to light the cyc from DS.



Nope, sounds like a reason to move the cyc DS of the fixtures to me.


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## danTt (Jan 9, 2013)

The problem with that, Grog, is that you lose playing space (sometimes a lot, depending on how the theater was laid out. Having lights DS doesn't cut into the space, but moving your cyc 4-6' downstage can be a huge commitment, given the size of so many theaters.


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## lwinters630 (Jan 11, 2013)

gafftaper said:


> How large is your cyc and how many Vivids does it take to light it?



It is 50' wide and 20' tall I have 6 of the vivid R 42". A total of 24 cells.

Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

Here are some pictures from Dracula in 2011 and a talent show 2012.


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## lwinters630 (Jan 11, 2013)

Sorry, I am not sure on how to get the pictures posted correctly.


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## wetbehindtheears (Jan 13, 2013)

I've been reading many of the posts here regarding cyc lighting. I'm excited to pursue this in our small elementary school's space. Would anyone know of a place in Ontario, Canada that is selling used cyc lights? By chance, any one here have cyc lights for sale? I've checked ebay and other used selling sites, but with no luck. 

Thanks for your time,
Ivan


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## lwinters630 (Jan 13, 2013)

wetbehindtheears (Ivan)
Welcome to CB!

If you have local suppliers and rental houses often sell off their used stock. If it is a small space I would look for LED fixtures as they are more flexible.

Do some more searching on CB to find and learn more about CYC lights.


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## Tex (Jan 14, 2013)

gafftaper said:


> How large is your cyc and how many Vivids does it take to light it?


You didn't ask me, but I'm also using Vivids to light my 20 x 60 cyc. I'm using 7, 63" Vivid R's with 80 degree horizontal lenses and it looks amazing!


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 14, 2013)

I have 4 3-cell Altman EC-1's that are looking for a new home. Contact me by PM and we can discuss if they are suitable for your venue.


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## lwinters630 (Jan 16, 2013)

Tex said:


> using 7, 63" Vivid R's with 80 degree horizontal lenses and it looks amazing!



Yeah, Blazin amazin . . . . you probably have to throttle those puppies back to prevent the actors from disappearing into relative darkness.


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## TechGeek (Jan 17, 2013)

I perfer to use LED strip lights on my cyc. Its easier to mix color and cheaper in the long run. I like the Color Blaze 72 by Phillips. They are really good for cyc light and Im trying to talk my TD into getting some.


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## Tex (Jan 17, 2013)

lwinters630 said:


> Yeah, Blazin amazin . . . . you probably have to throttle those puppies back to prevent the actors from disappearing into relative darkness.


Well, I would have to throttle them back but I have 7 more plus 12 D40's doing color wash duty.


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