# quiet moving heads



## David Ashton (Feb 18, 2008)

Are Martin the only makers of "studio quiet" movers or are there cheaper alternatives?


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## len (Feb 18, 2008)

IIRC Varilite are really quiet, but aren't cheaper than Martin. Depending on the show and the rig, you might be able to use a less expensive product if you just keep the pan and tilt movements slow and slow the fan speed down. Won't be a perfect solution, but nothing is ever perfact.


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## icewolf08 (Feb 18, 2008)

The VL1K and the ETC Revolution are relatively quiet fixtures. I don't know if they compare to the "studio quiet" level of the Martin TW1, but let me tell you, the Mac2K is not a quiet fixture, my Elation fixtures run quieter than that. Most of the time the most noise comes from the fans in the fixture, many fixtures have variable or automatic fan speeds which help a lot.


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## soundman (Feb 18, 2008)

High End's studio spots and studio beam are fan free and pan and tilt fairly quietly. We own two studio spots 575 cmys and they work well in our black box space, except when there is a quick color bump they are unnoticeable.


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## DarSax (Feb 18, 2008)

I'll second soundman's post, they are prettty quiet what being fanless. You do definitely notice when they move, though, there's a high pitched "zzzzzzzp!" which is a bit noticeable unless you slow down the movement.


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## len (Feb 18, 2008)

StudioSpots, at least the 250, won't hit a mark consistently. If you set a specific spot, then go to another cue, and return to the first, it will be off a little. Console doesn't seem to matter. Not a fixture I would use if I could avoid it. And not very bright, either.


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## Kelite (Feb 18, 2008)

allthingstheatre said:


> Are Martin the only makers of "studio quiet" movers or are there cheaper alternatives?



What attributes/duties are you wishing these prospective movers to do? 

Since there are so many features anymore, what can you absolutely NOT live without?


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## DarSax (Feb 18, 2008)

methinks I know what Kelite's driving at....


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## Kelite (Feb 18, 2008)

DarSax said:


> methinks I know what Kelite's driving at....




Aw now....

Just asking for a little more details, that's all.....


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## soundlight (Feb 18, 2008)

As I'm not manufacturer affiliated, I'll cut to the chase - could you deal with not having gobo changing ability, motorized zoom, motorize focus, and iris control? Because in that case, you could use an I-Cue or a Right Arm with source four/shakespeare/Strand SL a scroller (only works with right arm, not i-cue) or SeaChanger.


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## TimMiller (Feb 18, 2008)

I have never had a problem with a studio spot 250 hitting its mark. The logic in the studio spot 250 is the same as the studio beam. The components in a studio spot (minus the logic board itself) is the same as the studio spot 250. I have had problems with ETC revolutions hitting their spot (ETC should stay with making conventional lights). Also studio spot 575's and studio colors are fanless and they are quiet. The studio spot 575 cmy's are noiser than the regular studio spots, due to the color mixing system, yet they are quiet. Studio beams do have fans in the fixture, same with the studio spot 250's and studio color 250's.


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## David Ashton (Feb 19, 2008)

My client is a country venue which has nearly all one night stands, so for music/dance they want full ML function but for theatre/conference events they just want focusable spots which are quiet.


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## Kelite (Feb 19, 2008)

Thanks for the additional info, David. The suggestions of the Studio Spot 250/575, along with the VL1000 would certainly fit the need for quiet fixtures, but may be priced higher than your client wants to commit. These fixtures certainly are of good quality, and would more than likely 'earn their keep' in an environment when breaking down is not an option.
Yes, there are other moving lights on the market that may work just fine but bear in mind the reliability factor.


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## LD4Life (Feb 19, 2008)

Kelite said:


> but bear in mind the reliability factor.


My advice, stay as far away from Chauvet movers as possible. I had to send in a Q-Spot 575 in four times before it finally worked properly. As soon as I got it back, one of the Q-Washes that the theatre I work for owns stopped tilting. Ergo, stay away from them.


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## porkchop (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm gonna jump on the High End band wagon here. In a theatre I worked at for years we had Techno Beam 575's and Studio Spot 575's. The Techno's were old but they worked fine and were quiet even if put on the box's. The Studio's were a dream to work with and I never noticed any noise from them really. Also with the 575 variety I never had a problem with the light not being bright enough i had full washes up and still if I wanted to see the light from the 575's it was there. One word to the wise though make sure you terminate the line. Maybe it was just the fixtures I had but if I even thought of not terminating the line the fixtures (especially the Techno's) started to twitch like someone that just drank 14 cups of coffee.


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## derekleffew (Feb 20, 2008)

The HES Showgun is surprisingly quiet, and you probably wouldn't need any other fixtures.


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## David Ashton (Feb 20, 2008)

Sorry HES fans but they do not have any active agents here in W Australia unlike Martin who have good back up and the HES price range looks way over the available budget, but thanks for your replies.


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## Kelite (Feb 20, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> The HES Showgun is surprisingly quiet, and you probably wouldn't need any other fixtures.



I'm not so sure about that Derek. I have one borrowed for the week just behind my office, and the three fans certainly remind me the unit is on... Granted, it's a 2,000 Watt lamp and needs plenty of air for cooling- but it's far from quiet. (In my opinion, that is...)


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## Kelite (Feb 20, 2008)

porkchop said:


> we had Techno Beam 575's and Studio Spot 575's.



Believe it or not, those Techno Beams were only 250W fixtures. Their brightness is proof positive of the optical quality HES is known for.


See for yourself- http://technobeamlamp.com/


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## derekleffew (Feb 20, 2008)

Kelite said:


> ...but it's far from quiet...


I meant when compared to a Syncrolite!


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## TimMiller (Feb 20, 2008)

check out the elation's. I know their 700 watt spot is quit and their 250 and 575's are also quiet. The Robe 250's and 575's are also quiet.


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## porkchop (Feb 21, 2008)

Kelite said:


> Believe it or not, those Techno Beams were only 250W fixtures. Their brightness is proof positive of the optical quality HES is known for.
> See for yourself- http://technobeamlamp.com/



Well I've been told, and now I'm even more impressed


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## Jezza (Feb 21, 2008)

IMO the VL 1000 is one of the quietists, full function fixtures out there due to its externally mounted, fan-less ballast -- yes, fan-less. They can mbe rack mounted and all stored together if necessary, or truss/pipe mounted. The VL 1000 lacks a few bells and whistles that you'll find on the 2500 series or the 3000/3500 series, however, as a moving fixture for theater, they can't be beat. They blow the S4 Revolution out of the water. 

I've had good luck with the VL 2500 in terms of noise suppression, unless of course they are doing dual rotate, strobe, and movement at the same time. However, I'm hoping that whenever I'm doing that, there's enough noise on stage to cover the MLs.

Spring Awakening has about 2 dozen or more VL 1000 AS fixtures on their install -- I never heard a thing the entire show, even from their scrollers, which was impressive.


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## TimMiller (Feb 21, 2008)

Trick is during any loud parts (such as aud clapping) get the scrollers to cue up so everyone doesnt hear them. Also if you have some patience and money you can get scrolls custom made so the colors fall in order of what you need so you do not have to go back and forth from one end of the scroll to the other. As far as the noisier moving lights such as X-spot, i try to make them move during the clapping or louder scenes.


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## stradivarius (Feb 23, 2008)

I wouldn't really say that the VL1000's are quiet. Sure, they are really quiet until you do something with them, as zoom or pan/tilt or framing shutters.Then they are making quite some noise. At least the 3 of them we had in for a show.


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## Jezza (Feb 23, 2008)

Any fixture is going to make noise when it starts to actually DO something. However, in terms of just audible level with lamp on and fans running, the VL seems to be pretty good.


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## David Ashton (Feb 23, 2008)

The Martin 250 and575 encore[I think} with studio mode is very quiet, I think it's time to include a sound level at some standard distance into ML specs.This would make a thread like this totally redundant.


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## Jezza (Feb 23, 2008)

Agreed -- I think we have all forgot to mention the Q series VL 3000 and VL 3500. Never had a chance to play with them myself, but they are marketed as having pretty good sound suppression. Anyone had any experience with these fixtures?


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## stradivarius (Feb 23, 2008)

Yes, we currently use a VL3500Q in one of our productions, and I love it! It's not totally quiet, but much quiter than the mac 2K series. I would use them anytime the budget let me . Maby off topic, but the framing shutters are top notch!


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## TimMiller (Feb 23, 2008)

Most if not all of clay pakys products are pretty quiet. Esp when you get the SV's they are even quieter. Usually all you hear is the head moving and the fans. The optical system is very quiet.


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## Jezza (Feb 24, 2008)

Strad -- Can the framing shutters in the VL each fully cut the beam? On the Clay Packy site as discussed in a thread on LN, their framing shutters can each independently fully cut off the entire beam, in addition to rotating each shutter and rotating the whole shutter mechanism. There is a demo of this on the Clay Packy home page that is VERY well put together -- some really great programming if nothing else. No pan or tilt was used -- just the shutters.


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## stradivarius (Feb 24, 2008)

Jezza said:


> Strad -- Can the framing shutters in the VL each fully cut the beam? On the Clay Packy site as discussed in a thread on LN, their framing shutters can each independently fully cut off the entire beam, in addition to rotating each shutter and rotating the whole shutter mechanism. There is a demo of this on the Clay Packy home page that is VERY well put together -- some really great programming if nothing else. No pan or tilt was used -- just the shutters.


Well, what I know for sure is that the entire shutter mechanism can be rotated 50 degrees in either direction and the blades can individually be rotated 30 degrees in either direction. However, I can't say if the blades are fully closing. I searched the manual and it says that 0 is open and 255 is closed, so it seems like it's possible.


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## TimMiller (Feb 25, 2008)

I know with the new varilites they will not fully cut the beam in either direction and this was one thing i complained about when i saw the prototype. Its been so long since i touched a VL1000, if my memory serves me correctly i really dont think they cut fully all the way in one direction. My bigest complaint about the VL1000's was that they are way too slow. I had issues waiting for them to go from one extreme to another. I heard they have updated the software to make them faster.... But i dont know if this actually holds true or not.


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## Grog12 (Feb 25, 2008)

No with a VL1000 you can't cut the beam fully with 1 shutter.


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## stradivarius (Feb 25, 2008)

If I get some time over tomorrow I will test the VL3500Q and see how the shutters behave.


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## gafftaper (Feb 25, 2008)

Not an expert in this department but it seems to me a mix of Seachangers and VL1000's/ETC Revolutions would be a good way to do this on a budget. You won't get Mac 2k performance but they are pretty quiet and you can get a lot of bang for your buck. Seachanger is coming out with a new model the "SD" which has fuller saturation. The "XG" model is designed to really give you great low saturation pastel colors for typical theater applications while also being able to go out into the deeper colors when you want. The new "SD" is a little weaker in the pastels but stronger out at the deep end of the saturation scale. 
Should be great for music situations. 

If you can't get Seachangers in your area what about Wybron Nexeras or just a bunch of scrollers.


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## TimMiller (Feb 25, 2008)

I really like the robe 1200 watt spots (1200 at) they work great and they are quiet considering their lamp output. All of the functions such as moving are quiet. You do not get framing though. Coemar's are also quiet. Even their 2k spot.


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## tomed101 (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm not sure whether anyone read this or not (the post was deleted in the crash) I need to rent probably 4-8 Mac TW1's for an upcoming show or something similar, but I haven't heard much about them. It probably doesn't help that you can search for TW1 (character limit) Basically i want something which will blend with the conventional, hence the tungsten source, and have CMY mixing. I will also need a console to drive them (I am thinking a hog 1000) and will need to rent it for about a month. 

Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience with the TW1, and for any aussies, anywhere I can rent them? (I am in Brisbane, but can pretty much rent from anywhere in Australia which is cheap) Please consider this is a school with a limited budget and, yes I realise this will be expensive but I would like to keep it as low as possible. 

Tom


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## icewolf08 (Feb 28, 2008)

tomed101 said:


> I'm not sure whether anyone read this or not (the post was deleted in the crash) I need to rent probably 4-8 Mac TW1's for an upcoming show or something similar, but I haven't heard much about them. It probably doesn't help that you can search for TW1 (character limit) Basically i want something which will blend with the conventional, hence the tungsten source, and have CMY mixing. I will also need a console to drive them (I am thinking a hog 1000) and will need to rent it for about a month.
> Does anyone have any suggestions or any experience with the TW1, and for any aussies, anywhere I can rent them? (I am in Brisbane, but can pretty much rent from anywhere in Australia which is cheap) Please consider this is a school with a limited budget and, yes I realise this will be expensive but I would like to keep it as low as possible.
> Tom


I suppose the big questions is, what are you using them for? The TW1 is not the only tungsten lamp ML with CMY. Are you looking specifically for a wash fixture or do you need the capabilities of a profile? The VL1K-T (either shutters OR iris) gives you the tungsten source plus gobos, CMY, and shutters or iris. I am only mentioning this to makes sure that you know that the TW1 is not the only tungsten ML with CMY. All I have heard about the TW1 are good things.


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## tomed101 (Feb 29, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> I suppose the big questions is, what are you using them for? The TW1 is not the only tungsten lamp ML with CMY. Are you looking specifically for a wash fixture or do you need the capabilities of a profile? The VL1K-T (either shutters OR iris) gives you the tungsten source plus gobos, CMY, and shutters or iris. I am only mentioning this to makes sure that you know that the TW1 is not the only tungsten ML with CMY. All I have heard about the TW1 are good things.



Actually, come to think of it I did think of the VL a while back, but had since fallen off the edge of my thoughts... 

I am after primarily washes, but some profiles could also be useful, but considering the budget, I am thinking to go just with the washes. The application they will be used in is a music concert which usually has approximately 20-30 different "scenes". This is the primary reason we are looking at the movers, because we have very limited circuits available to the FOH position, very limited dimming, and nowhere near enough instruments. We will have a basic white wash, and a basic blue wash but can't do much else with the available resources. The movers appear to solve all of the listed problems because: a) They can move (duh) to wherever they are needed and b) they have inbuilt dimmers. This saves having multiple instruments pointed at the same place for colour merges/fades etc.

Having said that, are there any other possible instruments which will fit the bill other than the VL and TW1, and any console recommendation's (I am thinking Hog 1000)

Tom


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## len (Feb 29, 2008)

I have seen the TW1 and it's a very nice fixture. It's been a long time since I saw one, and I didn't test it too thoroughly, but it was cool. I remember it being quiet, with nice colors. Dimmer was nice, or you can use an outside dimmer if you want the curve to match your conventionals, IIRC. Don't remember much else about it.


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