# Used lighting gear anyone?



## Josh (Jun 18, 2003)

I have used lighting gear available. All out of a major rental company's stock. Source Fours, Pars, Dimmers, Consoles.... everything. I found some random roboscan 518's ($900 each or make me an offer on all 7) and Martin destroyer X250s ($299) each when u buy two or more. 

E-mail: [email protected]


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## dwsobel (Sep 30, 2003)

Where are you located?

I am looking at outfitting a TV studio soon... do you have any 8" fresnels? Also, what do you have for prices for the Source4s...in what degrees? ~David


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## ship (Sep 30, 2003)

Outfitting a TV studio is a bit more than just adding some standard 8" Fresnels. The ETC equipment might be useful, but for true TV even it's too low in color temperature and usefulness. Remember it's not theater lighting, it's a whole new ballpark. What Fresnels you probably would want are "Studio Fresnels" in the 2K and 5Kw range. Be very careful with used studio equipment however. Due to the wattage of the lamps, the things burn up in a way that you have never seen before after a few years and without special care.
For instance, if the Altman 2000L or 5000L series, the old lamp base in common is discontinued. Unless your new gear from either series has had the upgrade kit done to it so it will take the new Euro lamp base, you won't be able to get parts. And the springs and contact plates do wear out with use. Be very careful. The 5000L upgrade kit just finished being re-engineered this past week after 2 years of being discontinued and I'm getting my first play test sample out of 16 this week to ensure it's going to work. That's unlike last year's 2000L upgrade that took 3 upgrades to the upgrade and me even sending them a fixture before they figured out how to make it fit properly in the old frame. Dealer cost for me on the 2000L, because I helped with the design and was in general a pain in the rear was $100.00 ea. End user costs on even the 2000L upgrade will cost you upwards of $150.00 each fixture in addition to what you pay for used studio equipment - and it probably will be necessary. How do you know that the tension of a lamp base spring is going to be proper or that it's going to grip the lamp without arching? I don't know how much the 5000L base will cost yet.

Strand Bambino fixtures while in need less maintinence will also be need to be checked really well. The lamp bases eventually also burn up, and the internal wires still melt down.

In other words, on studio equipment, I would recommend not buying used - get them new. Get in touched with Lowell, Arri, KenoFlo, Altman and Strand amongst many other companies for what gear to be using. Than also get an expert at specifying studio equipment in to do it properly. That's given this is a pro level studio. Otherwise, just about any theatrical supply would be able to specify at least a base amount of gear you need from C-stands to the proper size of spud. Barbizon amongst theater supply companies would be best at this. 

Face it, studio lighting is very expensive - much more costly than theater lighting, go with some experts at it even if you are paying more for the service. If further interested, I have a few books on my list that might proove helpful in figuring out what you need. 

As per Josh, Fourth phase/Bash is a good source for used theater gear - even I shopped with them at times, but on studio equipment, be very careful and get new stuff.


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## dwsobel (Oct 1, 2003)

Thanks for the tips! I'm coming from a theater background I guess I need to do some reading...what books would you reccommend? Also, I'm working in a rather small space, (ie 20' x 30' not including proposed cyc) so I didn't think I needed that wattage. Why would I need such large instruments? 

Thanks for replying, I'll probably have plenty of questions soon  ~David


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## wemeck (Oct 1, 2003)

Josh said:


> I have used lighting gear available. All out of a major rental company's stock. Source Fours, Pars, Dimmers, Consoles.... everything. I found some random roboscan 518's ($900 each or make me an offer on all 7) and Martin destroyer X250s ($299) each when u buy two or more.
> 
> E-mail: [email protected]



I too am very interested on the pricing of the source4s.


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## ship (Oct 2, 2003)

Lighting for TV and Film, 3rd Ed. by Gerald Millerson; Focal Press ISBN: 0-240-54582-X “Explores the fundamental principles of lighting in studios, on location and display, and covers single-camera, small unit production, improvised, and economy lighting.

Projection for the Performing Arts, Focal Press 1995 “This book is written in a non-technical language. It is a definitive book on all forms of projection, whether for live theatre, ballet, TV, outdoor events, and film and laser projection.” (192pp)

Drafting Scenery for Theater, Film and TV by Richard Rose , 1990 by Betterway Publications, Inc ISBEN #1-55870-141-9 Drafting Book recommended by Andy Champ-Doran 

Set Lighting Technician’s Handbook 2nd Ed. by Harry C. Box (377 pages); Focal Press “Film lighting equipment, practice and electrical distribution. Primarily intended as a movie electrician’s guide, this book has lots of cross-over information valuable to any theater, television, or concert electrician. It’s down to earth guide to practices, equipment, and ‘tricks of the trade’ for those of us in the “trenches”. Includes electrical distribution and regulation, HMI, and arc light operation, set protocol, effects lighting, light manipulation, stands, mounting hardware and much more.” Tools for Stagecraft

Gaffers, Grips and Best Boys, by Eric Taub (228 pages) “Explains the movie business from behind the scenes. An interesting narrative with interviews from the crew to the top. All the jobs that interact to make a motion picture are covered in this candid revealing book.” Tools for Stagecraft


Here might be some sources on books about the subject. As for the why's and whens, it's not my field so I couldn't tell much beyone what fixtures I buy or service. Why that wattage? Think that's another topic Stagecraft covered many times over on the question of how to light a theater show for film or similar topics. From what I remember, and learned over the years is that the camera is much more refiened but broad than the eye. The eye and brain fills in the holes between what's lit and dark, the camera does not. If you have a camera and light someone that has even a fair amount of light, but also shadow, they are going to be in the dark. Wrong color temperature at 28 to 32K, and wrong basic intensity level for film. Think back to the silent movies and how fake their caked on white makup was. You can do video now without the makeup used to at least make the talent show up on film, but for the most part, it needs to still be really bright to be of useful in light level. That 8" fixture given a 1Kw lamp might in a small place give out some light but for the most part, it's studio Fresnels and fluorescent bulbs that are of most use when they have the proper color temperature and color correcting gel used. 

Tell you what, get some of the above books and a few months answer all of us what's the specific differences in fixtures and light levels. I for one have an interest but not enough need to presue it on my own.

As for pricing on S-4 Lekos, the more places you price out, and the larger your order, the better your price. How much would I sell them much less buy them for? For me at least, sorry but that's not fare to other companies plus I'm not a sales person. Every company that buys fixtures has different pricing depending upon how many they buy per year. Ours are in the few hundred per year. That's going to be better than Jo-Bob's discount theater barn sales to start with. After that, Jo-Bob is probably paying less in employees and overhead so he needs less a markup. Is Jo-Bob's end cost to someone that wants say 5 over say 20 fixtures as a one time deal better? Probably. More you buy, the more you save or at least the more effort a sales person will put into getting your order. Price out enough sources and you get to knowing what the going rate for said fixtures is, than what is a good deal.


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## jrlang (Jan 12, 2004)

Josh said:


> I have used lighting gear available. All out of a major rental company's stock. Source Fours, Pars, Dimmers, Consoles.... everything.



I am interested in the consoles and what you have to offer.


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## ship (Mar 2, 2004)

Remember the forum as it is currently formatted is not a place to conduct business or sell gear. 

You than get into things like opinions posted like - that's too expensive, I'll sell it to you for this much etc. which is also not fair to those that don't post such things but also have gear for sale listed thru normal channels for selling it.
Also if such sales things are discussed it opens up the forum for sales people to come on and try to get customers instead of providing expert knowledge and help as a goal. 

Eventually there very likely be a commerce section added on the next Controlbooth server platform but until than you might be better off asking such questions off line if not looking for what you are wanting in other more normal sources. Until the forum opens up a commerce section posting things you have for sale might be better off saying you have a more general type of gear or a very few specific items, than providing a link to the website you list the gear at be it your own website or a E-Bay type, or having those interested contact you off line. It's both more professional and more normal. 

Johs's E-Mail address put him as a representive from Fourth Phase/Bash which has a constant and huge curculation of used gear coming on and off the market. There would not be any real need for him to post a listing of the gear because it changes day to day. You are better off checking the website for what they have or contacting him directly. Chances are if you need something, Bash will have it and if the price is right sell it usually at a reasonable price and in excellent condition as they are well known for. As many companies are known for.


-Pro-Sound Lighting Forum has a retail section that's free to post both what you are looking for and what you have to sell. 
-Once a year, each member of Stage Craft can post sales type listings as long as what is posted is kept simple than taken off line, that would not be such a bad idea to carry on here until there is a retail section.
-Lighting network does not mind commerce on it's forum but prices are rarely posted or discussed and the posts on sales are not that frequent and almost never from production companies. 

Also just about every lighting company has used gear for sale, many such as Bash/Fourth Phase, Upstaging, Design Lab, Limelight Productions, TLS, etc. to say the least of them advertise frequently in local papers, Lighting Dimensions and PLSN frequently.

This is not mentioning the wealth of other local lighting companies with their own used gear Grand Stage, Chicago Spotlight, ILC, TLC, Preformance Lighting, come to mind as Chicago area prime sources, every area will have it's own local companies with used gear. Once a year for instance Design Lab has a sale of their used gear. 

This would be along with tours and shows that once done will sell off all the gear and list it in various places to get stuff from. Equity and Preform Inc. would be possible sources to see such things. 
You might also look into your local newspapers or the more arts related ones such as in Chicago - Windy City Times, New City and The Reader who frequently have adds for theater sales and are often at least used to be free to non-for profit organizations to post announcements such as opening nights, job openings, sales etc. once a month or a few times a year.

Than there is:
E-Bay
The Base Auction http://thebase.com/cgibin/auction.cgi 
Gear Source www.gear-source.com
Light Broker www.lightbroker.com
Light Monger www.lightmonger.com
Used Lighting www.usedlighting.com
Used Intelligent Lighting www.usedintelligentlighting.com 

As sources to find used gear. More places than that which only sell used gear I'm not aware of.


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## ship (Mar 13, 2004)

I was doing a search of used and discounted lights on the internet tonight and this is what I found. It's not the only sources out there but does represent for fixtrures a lot of what's on the market right now and new verses old prices thus useful. It's also not highlighting any one supplier more than another. Check with your local or normal suppliers also for used gear and lighting sales because this is only a thumb nail of the many vendors and production companies out there. Some I will have intended to insert had broken or useless links - without pricing for the reason they were not included.

Aceydecy Lighting (Theatrical Supply) www.aceydecy.com Used Dimmers, Colortran Lekos for $85.00 and light boards

Altman (Lighting Mfr..) http://www.altmanltg.com/ Used lighting fixtures 65Qs for $75.oo, 3.5Qs for $100.oo and 360Qs for $150.oo w. C-Clamp, Safety and lamp - in good condition. 

ALPS Advanced Lighting and Production Services (Production Company) http://www.alpsweb.com/ Used Light Boards.

Bandit Lights (Production Company) http://www.banditlites.com/ Used 360Q for $157.00.

Big Apple Lights (Lighting Dist.) http://www.balny.com/ Call for list

BML (Theater Supplier) http://www.bmlinc.com/ Strip/Cyc lIghts, Beam Projectors, Dimmer Racks

Barbizon (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.barbizon.com/ Used Strobe lights, Leko Strobe attachments, movie lights, ministrips

Creative Stage Lighting (Theatrical Supplier) www.creativestagelighting.com Shakespheres for $165.oo, 

Chicago Spotlight (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.chicagospotlight.com/ Call for list

Camel Traders (Multi-Cable Plugs & Theater Supplies distributer) http://www.cameltraders.com/ New Altman 360Q $145.oo

Design Lab - Interesting Products (Theatrical Supplier/Special Effects Mfr..) http://www.designlab-chicago.com/ Used dimmers, 6x16 & 6x22 for $95.00 

Dr. Bob’s Theatricicy (Theater Supplier) http://www.prolightingsupplies.com Used dimmer packs

E-Bay (Used/New gear free for all auction) www.ebay.com Used Altman 360Q 6x12 $33.00, Altman Zoom $99.00, Fresnel $41.00, PAR 56 $10.50, ETC S-4 $174.95, 8" Fresnel, old 8" Altman Ellipsoidal $55.00, 

Fourth Phase/Bash Theatrical Lighting (Production/Resale Company) http://www.prglighting.com/ Used 3.5Q Lekos $99.00, Micro-Ellips $105.00, S-4 $205.00, S-4 Zoom $325.00, Parnel $165.00, Aluminum PAR 64 $39.00, PAR 46 $32.00, 10" Scoop $59.00, 6" Fresnel $63.00, Dimmers & Control

Grand Stage/Art Drapery (Theatrical Supplier/Rigging Production Company) http://www.grandstage.com/ Call for list

Gear Source (Used Light/Sound Equipment Dist.) Www.gear-source.com Used Control and dimming, $17.00 new Par 56 can, Altman 360Q $85.00, Strand 6x12 $129.00, Kliegl Fresnel $65.00, color scrollers.
Light Trader.com (Lighting & Sound Distributor) http://www.lighttrader.com/ New Altman 360Q $178.00, New 65Q $86.25, call for used gear prices

Light Broker.com (Used Lights & Equipment Distributer) http://www.lightbroker.com/index.htm Used gear auction house. CD 80 dimmer racks, Black PAR 46 $45.00, colortran Lekos $75.00 each or $600.00 for the lot, 12 Altman 6x12 Lekos for $795.00, 3.5Q Leko $99.00

Limelight Productions (Production Company, Theatrical Supply & Used Equipment Distributer) http://www.limelightproductions.com/equipment/used.html 
Altman 360Q $120.00, New 360Q 4.5x6.5 $149.00, 4.5x6.5 Lens Trains $79.75, 6" Fresnel $62.00, PAR 64 $75.00, 575w S-4 $199.50, 1Kw Bambino Fresnel $100.00, TTI Dimmer Packs $450.00 ea or $1400 for all, other dimmer modules

Light Monger (Used Lighting Equipment Distributor) http://www.lightmonger.com/ Used dimmers, 3" Fresnel $45.00, 10" Scoop $59.00, 3.5Q Leko $99.00, #65Q Fresnel $65.00, 8" Fresnel $98.00, PAR 46 $32.00, PAR 64 $39.00

Production Advantage (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.proadv.com/ New Strand fixtures on sale, New Altman 3.5Q $150.93, 360Q $165.48, S-4 $251.85, S-4 JR $166.48, L&E Leko $152.52, 3" Fresnel $66.69, 6" Fresnel $87.75, 8" Fresnel $175.50, L&E 6" Fresnel $81.18, dimmers

Premier Stage Lighting (Theatrical Supplier & Heat Shield) http://www.premier-

lighting.com/ Used ETC S-4 $225.00, CD-80 Dimmer Packs, New Altman 3.5Q $180.60, 360Q $204.00, Shakespeare $328.50, ETC S-4 $375.00

Production Express (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.proexp.com/store/StoreFront.bok New Dimmers, 

Stage Technologies (Rigging Mfr. & Theatrical Supplier) = Secoa http://www.secoa.com/ 8 to 15% discount on new gear, S-4 JR $205.00, S-4 $314.00, 3.5Q $190.00, 360Q 4.5x6.5 $212.00

Stage Depot (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.stagedepot.com/ Used Demo Dimmer Packs, 

Stage Lights.com (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.stagelights.com/ New L&E Lekos $175.00, S-4 JR $180.00, S-4 $280.00, 3.5Q $175.00, 360Q $195.00, Dimmers

SLD Lighting (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.sldlighting.com/ New SLD Fresnels 3" $72.90, 6" $93.45, 8" 189.00, S-4 Parnel $212.00, ETC S-4 JR $210.00, Altman 3.5Q5 $175.00, 6" Leko $189.00, Shakespeare $265.00, ETC S-4 $315.00, Dimmers

Star Light & Magic (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.starmgc.com/ New 360Q $199.00, 3" Fresnel $99.00, 6" Fresnel $99.00 Dimmers 

Studio Depot /Mole-Richardson (Theatrical Supply & Fixture Mfr..) Www.studiodepot.com New S-4 $375.95, 

TLS, Inc. (Theatrical Supplier) http://www.tlsinc.com/used.htm Used Dimmers, S-4 $210.00, S-4 PAR $120.00

Texas Scenic (Production & Theatrical Supplier) http://www.texasscenic.com/ New Strand SL Leko $235.00, 6" 1KAF-MPF $170.00, 3.5Q $160.00, 360Q $168.00, Shakespeare $265.00, S-4 Leko $252.00, S-4 JR $165.00, L&E Leko $155.00, Dimming

Upstaging (Used Lighting Equipment) www.upstaging.com Used S-4 $240.00, S-4 PAR $125.00, Aluminum PAR 64 $23.00, 10 degree Colortran $95.00, New Strand 10x23 $150.00, New Strand 6" Leko $120.00, EDI 12x3.6K Scrimmer Dimmers $650.00, Used Mole Nooklight w. Barndoors $50.00, Used Mole Nooklight w/o Barndoors $25.00, Used 650w Molequartz one-light $25.00

Used Lighting.com Four Wall Entertainment (Used Lighting Equipment Distributer) http://www.usedlighting.com/ Used CD-80 Dimmers, Strand Lekos $99.00, PAR 64 $19.00, 360Q - 4.5x6.5 $109.00, 360Q 6x12 $ $89.00, 6x9 $109.00, 8" Fresnel $149.00, New Parnel $173.00, New S-4 $259.00, New S-4 PAR $139.00, Used Par 46 or PAR 56 $36.00, Aluminum PAR 64 $39.00, Altman PAR 64 $19.00, Used S-4 Leko $205.00, Used S-4 PAR $116.00


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