# Serious Injury on Spiderman



## Footer

Decided to start a new thread for this one... if Equity is not involved after this one I will be surprised. I for see major reworking to the show and a possible city/OSHA shut down occurring. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/21/nyregion/21spiderman.html?src=twrhp

'Spider-Man: Turn off the Dark' actor hospitalized after fall - CNN.com

If this continues on its current course, they will kill someone and it will change the way we fly people safely in theatre from here on out.


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## chausman

Yeah, that shows not doing well. Lets see how far they will take it before they decide it is a waste of a lot of money, time, and effort that it just needs to stop. If it will. Not to mention how many people we have seen get injured in some way by this show.


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## MarshallPope

With all the money that has been poured into the show, though, I don't see anything other than legal action or practically nonexistent ticket sales that could cause the producers to close the show, regardless of the lacking safety precautions. They have invested too much to turn back now.


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## skienblack

What do you think happened? Based on the CNN article it sounds like a harness broke or was not properly attached?


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## epimetheus

> Director Julie Taymor says it's all part of the creative process.
> 
> Taymor said, "I don't think anything that's really creative can be done without danger or risk."
> 
> Link




I find this comment to be fairly disturbing. Is this really what Broadway has come to?


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## Footer

Broadway 'Spider-Man' Stunt Double Falls To Stage - Entertainment News Story - NBCMontana NBC Montana

Looks like after the dust has cleared it was a 30' fall.


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## derekleffew

> A news media representative for “Spider-Man” said in an e-mail message Monday night: “An actor sustained an injury at tonight’s performance of ‘Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.’ *He fell several feet from a platform* approximately seven minutes before the end of the performance, and the show was stopped.


 How could a press agent possibly give erroneous information?

Perhaps this is why the show cost $65 mil. The producers think that several=30.


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## What Rigger?

MarshallPope said:


> With all the money that has been poured into the show, though, I don't see anything other than legal action or practically nonexistent ticket sales that could cause the producers to close the show, regardless of the lacking safety precautions. They have invested too much to turn back now.


 
This comment is just as disturbing as Julie Taymor's.
Marshall, do I understand you correctly that you think the producer's will/would put breaking even as a higher priority than human life? 

Don't misunderstand me: _you might not be wrong here_, considering where this show has gone recently. I'm just sayin': do you think that all that money spent would influence safety decisions?

(I can tell you from personal experience: it does!)

Everybody else, chime in here as well. Are they gonna keep going and keep hurting people or are they gonna go "Whoa. Stop."?
Personally, based only on what I've read, I don't think they're gonna stop until an outside entity (Equity, OSHA, etc...) compel them to stop.

Just one riggers opinion, based on what he reads on the interwebs.


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## derekleffew

epimetheus said:


> Director Julie Taymor says it's all part of the creative process.
> 
> Taymor said, "I don't think anything that's really creative can be done without danger or risk."
> 
> Link
> 
> 
> 
> I find this comment to be fairly disturbing. Is this really what Broadway has come to?
Click to expand...

I think she was quoted out of context. As I recall, either on the _60 Minutes_ or _Colbert Report_ interview, she was talking about *artistic* risk-taking, not the life and limb of the cast.

EDIT: From http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010...83076.shtml?tag=currentVideoInfo;segmentTitle :

> Actually, her role was all-encompassing: Taymor was the creative force in every nook and cranny of the show.
> 
> "You said something along these lines: 'I really love to go into something when I don't know whether I'll be able to pull it off,'" Stahl remarked.
> 
> "Absolutely," Taymor said. "I love it when people say, 'What a horrible, lousy idea.' I think that's great. I hate the comfort zone, let's put it that way. I don't think anything that's really creative can [be] done without danger and risk."
> 
> The danger and risk with Spider-Man, the musical is that to stay afloat. To keep running, it has to be as big a hit as Broadway has ever seen.


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## mstaylor

It will be interesting to find out what went wrong last night. If the lead flyer can't get it right that should be a warning sign. If it was a harness that broke then I would think that's on the person to inspect. If it was the cabling, carabiners or other rigging equipment then that's on the fly crew. But when you lead guy gets hurt, that's not good.


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## JohnHuntington

NY Times has video, chilling to watch:
Actor Injured in Fall During 'Spider-Man' Performance - NYTimes.com


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## drummerboi316

It looks like the line coming off his back went slack. Almost like he was putting his weight on the line like the choreography says and the line broke sending him flying off the edge.


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## chrispo86

From what I heard on the news this morning, it was the line that snapped... Not sure where they got their info from though...


Edit:

Just read this now:
Matinee canceled amid Spidey safety concerns

Today's matinee was cancelled due to safety concerns


> Rick Miramontez, spokesman for the troubled $65 million musical, said in a statement Tuesday afternoon that the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), Actors Equity and the New York State Department of Labor met with the company to discuss "additional safety protocols. It was agreed that these measures would be enacted immediately." He refused to comment on the changes.


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## What Rigger?

If your control software doesn't get feedback from the devices it's controlling..is that bad? Maybe 'cause a problem? I am just thinking out loud hypothetically.


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## What Rigger?

They explode! Like Spinal Tap drummers!
With Great Satire Comes Great Publicity: 'S.N.L.' Sends Up the 'Spider-Man' Musical - NYTimes.com


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## chausman

chrispo86 said:


> From what I heard on the news this morning, it was the line that snapped... Not sure where they got their info from though...


 When you watch the video here you can see the line falling behind him as he fell.

I think all this means that someone doesn't want this show to go on.


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## Footer

Equity/OSHA say it is human error. Actors Equity Association: 'Spider-Man' Injury Caused By 'Human Error' - The Hollywood Reporter. 

We also now have a name to associate with the rigging, and a pretty stellar reputation to go with it: http://www.fishertechnical.com/


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## CrazyTechie

chausman said:


> When you watch the video here you can see the line falling behind him as he fell.
> 
> I think all this means that someone doesn't want this show to go on.



Not sure if I'm hearing things but I thought I heard something resembling a "thud" at the end when the lights went to black.....


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## What Rigger?

Footer said:


> Equity/OSHA say it is human error. Actors Equity Association: 'Spider-Man' Injury Caused By 'Human Error' - The Hollywood Reporter.
> 
> We also now have a name to associate with the rigging, and a pretty stellar reputation to go with it: Fisher Technical Services, Inc.


 
Gotta leap to the defense of the FTSI folks here, and hopefully NOT get in trouble: FTSI is NOT the only piece of the rigging/flying/automation equation here, gang. Yes, I do actually know more, but I am not at liberty to say. I would _not point the finger at Fisher. Trust me, please._

That being said, I'm not going to point the finger at any other part of the rigging/flying/automation equation either.

Full disclosure: I use a realllllly amazing FTSI system 9 months out of the year. It is high. It is long. It is fast. I love it to death because it's bomber. Navigator is as dope as it gets. My winches are beyond design- they are art! I have trusted my life to this system and my fellow operators on more occasions than I can remember. I know a LOT of the FTSI gang, and I'll bet my life that none of this is on them. 

A few of you here really have detailed knowledge of what I'm talking about.


Everything Scot Fisher said in the Reporter article is correct, and in line with industry practices.
I'll get on ANY piece of his gear, any time, any place. But I'll make sure to check my points, or have someone I trust check 'em for me. There is risk in this kind of thing. We do our best to mitigate it the best we can. This is how we face our families when we get home, this is how we sleep at night.

NOBODY should die for a freakin' show.


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## BrianWolfe

I heard this morning that there was human error in fastening him into the rig.


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## len

More show video 'Conan' Shows No Signs of Turning Off 'Spider-Man' Parodies - NYTimes.com

Kidding. It's a Conan parody. And no spiders were hurt in the production.

Hard to see what was going on during the actual show video because I couldn't get rid of the play/pause button.


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## derekleffew

Good to see everyone can keep a sense a humor during this epidemic of theatre accidents.


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## chausman

derekleffew said:


> Good to see everyone can keep a sense a humor during this epidemic of theatre accidents.



You just love those "xtarnormal" videos don't you. You always seem to be the one to find them for everything!


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## motek

I'm trying to piece together what seem to be incongruent pieces of information:

From BroadwayWorld.com: 

> "We're told via a stagehand that this was NOT a flying sequence and that Spider-Man was NOT supposed to drop at all. He was supposed to run to top of the ramp as if to jump with the lights then set to go to black. The cable that snapped is what stops him from going over the edge, and that is what failed. He then fell approximately 30 feet."



From this Washington Post Article:

> The castmate who spoke on condition of anonymity said the cable to Tierney's harness snapped. But one special-effects expert raised the possibility that the rope was not hooked up securely.
> 
> Scott Fisher, president of Fisher Technical Services Inc. of in Las Vegas, which builds equipment for aerial stunts for the show, said the rope was supposed to be clipped to the stage at one end and the performer's back at the other.
> 
> "The stage crew would have been responsible for making the connection for hooking him up," Fisher said. "The actor is responsible for making the final check that he's good to go. It's sort of like packing your own parachute."
> 
> He said the script called for the stuntman to lurch forward at the end of a ramp as if leaping to Mary Jane's rescue. "He runs and stops and freezes in a position that you wouldn't normally be able to hold unless you had a little support from behind him," Fisher said. "If that's not hooked up and he leans forward, he's going to fall forward."
> 
> Fisher said the rope was not part of his company's onstage flight systems. But he said it was unlikely to have snapped: It is a 10,000-pound line.



From ActorsEquity.com

> AEA Statement re Spider-Man:
> Actors' Equity worked today with the Department of Labor, OSHA and the production to determine that the cause of the accident at last night's performance of Spider-Man was, in fact, human error. Further protocols are now being implemented, including redundancies recommended by Equity, the DOL and OSHA, to address this situation as well as other elements of the production. Equity continues to vigilantly monitor the production for the safety of its members.



On the one hand, the stagehand and the castmate say the cable snapped, plus the video clearly shows a cable breaking.

On the other hand, Fisher says there's the line was "unlikely to have snapped," or maybe a harness hookup problem, and Equity says it's human error.

What did Fisher mean by "it was unlikely to have snapped"? Did he just mean that there is a low percentage chance of it snapping, but this time it DID snap?

But more importantly, why would AEA say it's human error if it was a cable snapping? Maybe it was human error that lead to the cable snapping?


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## Van

So I'm looking at the vid. Check these pics. 







Image #1 show spidey where he should have stopped, according to the description of the action, " He leans forward, further than you normally would be able to without some support ..."
Notice the arrow indicates the 'Line' attached to him.
Image #2 is his OMG moment, Notice Line is still attached at harness.
Image #3 he gone line is still paying out. 
If I had done an Image #4 you'd notice no line hanging off the bridge. 
Harnes didn't fail, wire didn't fail at the harness. I'd have to say someone forgot to tie in the other end of the line, offstage.


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## mstaylor

len said:


> More show video 'Conan' Shows No Signs of Turning Off 'Spider-Man' Parodies - NYTimes.com
> 
> Kidding. It's a Conan parody. And no spiders were hurt in the production.
> 
> Hard to see what was going on during the actual show video because I couldn't get rid of the play/pause button.


It is a shame that Conan isn't remotely funny.


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## otherwho

Van said:


> So I'm looking at the vid. Check these pics.
> Image #1 show spidey where he should have stopped, according to the description of the action, " He leans forward, further than you normally would be able to without some support ..."
> Notice the arrow indicates the 'Line' attached to him.
> Image #2 is his OMG moment, Notice Line is still attached at harness.
> Image #3 he gone line is still paying out.
> If I had done an Image #4 you'd notice no line hanging off the bridge.
> Harnes didn't fail, wire didn't fail at the harness. I'd have to say someone forgot to tie in the other end of the line, offstage.



I think that van is right in that forgot to tie in the other end of the line if the change that they are making is: 

"Under the new plan, one offstage crew member will attach the harness and related cables, wires, or tethers to the actors, and a second stagehand will verify that the attachments are made. That second stagehand will then verbally notify a stage manager that the attachment is safely connected. The actor will also verify that the attachment is made. Previously, only one stagehand made the attachment; there was no second stagehand to verify or communicate with the stage manager, and the actor was not required to check his harness. " Taymor Meets With 'Spider-Man' Cast After Accident - NYTimes.com

"wearing a harness and a tether that was supposed to prevent him from free-falling, but “someone missed their cue and forgot to anchor the tether,” according to a production person who worked on Monday’s performance. When Tierney jumped, according to this person, the tether trailed behind him, instead of securing him to the equipment."

Beyond ‘Spider-Man’: 10 Onstage Mishaps - Metropolis - WSJ


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## Van

5:20 PM Update: Local One Issues SPiDER-MAN Statement 2010/12/21

This just in from Broadway world....


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## ruinexplorer

I don't know, in this video, it really looks like the line broke.


Although both shows were cancelled today, it goes on tomorrow: Tonight's 'Spider-Man&rsquo; show canceled in order for new safety procedures to be implemented - NYPOST.com


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## derekleffew

I wonder if anyone is pursuing legal remedies against the patron who took (and in my opinion should never have released) the video footage we're all watching/analyzing? I thought cameras weren't allowed in Broadway theatres?

I've told this story before: Years ago on a show I was working, when a performer fell after failing to clip into a rope, security wanted to confiscate the rope. I said, incredulously, "You want the rope that he DID NOT clip into?" They said, "Yes, it's evidence." So we gave them the rope, which was never seen again.


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## gafftaper

Here's a new article from Play Bill which includes some new information on that OSHA investigation and the reaction from Equity. 

Here's a good summary from Stage Directions for those trying to get caught up on what has happened.

In the end it sounds like a stage hand failed to snap the stuntman in properly and the stuntman failed to do his double check. Safety protocols were created and not being followed. How many times has What Rigger? ranted to us about following proper procedures and protocols to the letter kids? 

By the way, he isn't allowed to talk about where he works but trust your old buddy Gaff here, What Rigger? is the real deal. He's got one of the coolest jobs in the world if you ask me. He is responsible for the lives of several people in a couple of different amazing flights/stunts on a daily basis. He is connected and has a lot of friends. If he says Fisher is not at fault and should be trusted for all things cool and dangerous, believe him.


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## mstaylor

How do they figure that all four accidents are human error? I can understand the lastest one but not all. Also the light cue was late or else we would have never seen the fall. My understanding was it was supposed to look like he goes off and is caught by the rope. If so then the lighting call was as far off as the rope trick.


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## photoatdv

mstaylor said:


> How do they figure that all four accidents are human error? I can understand the lastest one but not all. Also the light cue was late or else we would have never seen the fall. My understanding was it was supposed to look like he goes off and is caught by the rope. If so then the lighting call was as far off as the rope trick.


 
Its also possible that the light cue wasn't called because someone (the SM?) realized something was wrong and was too busy trying to figure out what was wrong/how to stop him from falling.


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## What Rigger?

This is just a guess on this one kids, but here's why I think that nothing "snapped" or "broke".
Assuming use of either: wire rope, kernmantle rope, or Technora as what the stunt performer was attached to.
Assuming that the design factor is minimum 10:1.
Then plain and simple, the line did not break and as an almost universal rule would not break under normal use, or even this kind of use.

My assumptions may be incorrect and I am just greatly ballparking things here, but things have to go pretty wrong to snap any of the above common materials.
Breaking carabiners? Even harder to do, assuming use of an ANSI stamped 'biner that can hold the proper kN load.


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## Les

photoatdv said:


> Its also possible that the light cue wasn't called because someone (the SM?) realized something was wrong and was too busy trying to figure out what was wrong/how to stop him from falling.


 
I'm actually surprised that the light cue went at all. Had someone just fallen 30' on one of my stages, 'blackout' would have been the last thing I'd have done.

I also wish these videos would stop saying "the rope snapped". First of all, the media and we, as the general public, do not know that for sure. Secondly, the term 'rope' makes it sound like our rigging professionals just fly people using whatever 'ol "rope" is handy at the time, and third, the delivery of the story just makes it sound like there is absolutely no calculation that goes in to these things. I know they're trying to simplify the situation so most anyone can understand but gosh, a little too layman there. It's almost to the point of being an "Annoying Theatre Cliche". "Nobody knows why that rope snapped". Someone knows exactly what happened and why; it just hasn't been released to the general public. Granted, this is probably old coverage.


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## chausman

Les said:


> I'm actually surprised that the light cue went at all. Had someone just fallen 30' on one of my stages, 'blackout' would have been the last thing I'd have done.
> 
> I also wish these videos would stop saying "the rope snapped". First of all, the media and we, as the general public, do not know that for sure. Secondly, the term 'rope' makes it sound like our rigging professionals just fly people using whatever 'ol "rope" is handy at the time, and third, the delivery of the story just makes it sound like there is absolutely no calculation that goes in to these things. "Nobody knows why that rope snapped". Someone knows exactly what happened and why; it just hasn't been released to the general public.


 
Well Said.


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## motek

Still doesn't seem to add up. I agree with Les... "Someone knows exactly what happened and why; it just hasn't been released to the general public."

That video posted by ruinexplorer pretty clearly shows a line breaking (a little after 0:17).


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## mstaylor

I thought all the paries involved agreed that the line was never hooked to begin with. It may be the party line or it is what happened. I would think if something failed they would be less likely to jump right back into production. If it was equipment failure, how does adding the extra precautions they are putting in place change anything. 
We may never know exactly what happened because of liabity issues.


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## derekleffew

What Rigger? said:


> ...Breaking carabiners? Even harder to do, assuming use of an ANSI stamped 'biner that can hold the proper kN load.


Carabininer Test 02/04/09


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## mstaylor

And these were nonlocking aluminum carabiners. Everything here should be steel autolocks.


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## Van

I guess one of the things that confuses me is, as I posted before, They describe the action of the show as " He moves ...as if to leap.... stops at an angle that one can only do with support from behind...". But clearly, When Spidey goes over the edge, that line is still attached. whether it breaks lower in the fall or the harness gives way later in the fall is secondary to the original problem of 'the guy wasn't supoosed to go over the edge anyway'. Well That's one thing that confuses me. The other thing is Fruit on the bottom Yogurt, How do they do that ?


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## mstaylor

According to at least one of the stories the line was supposed to stop him as he leaned out. The lights were supposed to blackout so it looked like he goes over. Evidently the line was never hooked so when he leaned there was nothing stopping him.


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## chausman

Van said:


> ...The other thing is Fruit on the bottom Yogurt, How do they do that ?



That was quite a leap there (No pun intended). Going from actors falling (Or jumping) while no one knows what was supposed to happen...to yogurt manufacturing processes. (If you put fruit in the bottom of the container, then add yogurt, fruit stays on the bottom!!!!!)


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## gafftaper

I think it's pretty clear at this point that this injury happened because the hostage end of the cable was not properly connected by the stage hand or double checked by the actor. The interesting thing, from the rumors I hear, may turn out to be the cause of the previous "sling shot" injuries. Although, I'm suspicious we may never hear the truth on those injuries. 

Chris: Do you have fruit on top of your yogurt downunder?


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## What Rigger?

gafftaper said:


> Chris: Do you have fruit on top of your yogurt downunder?


 
Stop it, Gaff! That'd be like "crossing the streams" and you NEVER cross the streams.

It'd be like Googling the word "Google". Spacetime would collapse.

And ONLY Chuck Norris can divide by zero!


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## Anonymous067

gafftaper said:


> By the way, he isn't allowed to talk about where he works but trust your old buddy Gaff here, What Rigger? is the real deal. He's got one of the coolest jobs in the world if you ask me. He is responsible for the lives of several people in a couple of different amazing flights/stunts on a daily basis. He is connected and has a lot of friends. If he says Fisher is not at fault and should be trusted for all things cool and dangerous, believe him.


 
:[ Now I'm really curious where he works! :/


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## jstroming

My brother (who is an NYC producer) is going to see Spiderman tonight with my mom and sister....I'll let you know what they think! He should be able to give me (some) insight into the technical end of things and what he thinks of them.


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## gafftaper

Anonymous067 said:


> :[ Now I'm really curious where he works! :/


 
Unfortunately many members of the CB community with the coolest jobs are forced to remain anonymous about where they work. Imagine if a member showed up bragging about his really cool job at Cirque. He would be seen as an expert FROM Cirque. What happens if his advice goes horribly wrong? People blame Cirque, not the poster... potentially even in court. There are also many people who know some highly proprietary trade secrets. Again, a little bragging here could get the whole company in trouble. In some cases there is nothing to hide but the companies are just paranoid. Personally I chose to hide the name of where I work because I want the freedom to say what I want about my life without fearing retribution at work. It's a difficult choice many of us must make. 

My advice to everyone is to get to know people via PM off the forums. Sometimes this leads to fun virtual-friendships, maybe learning cool secrets about where people work, getting a crazy picture sent to you in a text of something somewhere that people will never believe, or maybe even a back stage tour of really cool places that people just don't get to go (I've had all of these thanks to CB friends). But mostly it makes hanging out on CB a lot more fun when you know the people behind the posts.


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## ruinexplorer

The most difficult part of being part of the "arm chair" safety committee is that we are mainly getting our information from secondary sources and poor quality video. When we speculate relying on eye-witness testimony from audience members who do not understand what they saw or non-technical reporters who do not understand the difference between wire-rope, tech-12 rope, mountaineering rope, or any other kind of rope, let alone in how they are used or why they are different, we are going to have faulty information. Heck, I have been misquoted in trade journals and had to basically re-write the portion of the article about my work. 

What we have here is yet another senseless accident. This time by professionals who should have known what they were doing. In a month or so, we may have some better clue of what happened, but if there is any kind of legal litigation, we will most likely have to wait until the court proceedings have completed.


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## jstroming

Well my mom and sister loved the stunts and the set, saying they were the best they've seen on Broadway. They went Christmas night. They thought the acting and singing was laughable, they couldn't believe how terrible it was (and they love most of the broadway shows they see!). My brother left halfway through (but he does most of the time) along with 2 couples and a few scattered people they could see in their row and the row in front of them. They said that for the visual element I should go see it, but they wouldn't be recommending it to their friends.

Yeah I have middle child syndrome wasn't invited! HAHA


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## MNicolai

Today they saw the worst accident yet when a thermonuclear device was accidentally detonated in rehearsal.


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## derekleffew

MNicolai said:


> Today they saw the worst accident yet when a thermonuclear device was accidentally detonated in rehearsal.


 
But AEA says they're doing all they can and IATSE's solution is to add more stagehands.


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## JohnHuntington

I saw the show last night; my write up here.


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## reggie98

Spiderman, Broadway's answer to Nascar!


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## MNicolai

The New Yorker took their shot at Spidey this week:


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## mstaylor

Evidently Letterman did too. Number 8 on the, "You know your year is starting badly" was you find out you are the new stunt double on Spiderman.


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## derekleffew

Courtesy of the SML:
Spider-Man Musical Commercial - CollegeHumor video


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## Footer

derekleffew said:


> Courtesy of the SML:
> Spider-Man Musical Commercial - CollegeHumor video


 
I go back to my Nascar theory on this one... they only reason people are watching is to see something explode.


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## MNicolai

Footer said:


> I go back to my Nascar theory on this one... they only reason people are watching is to see something explode.



That's the summary of the what the New Yorker article says. 


> ...“Remember that pride is the worst of the seven deadly sins,” Portmann went on. “Maybe what people are saying is ‘I think that Broadway is getting way out of control and I’m happy to see failure, so I’m willing to see actors get hurt. Then the producers will see that they are walking down a path that I didn’t endorse.’ ”
> 
> John Munder Ross, a psychologist and the author of “The Sadomasochism of Everyday Life,” said that we all have an unconscious desire to experience pain vicariously, and that theatregoing can ritualize these tendencies. “If it’s collective, it attenuates the individual guilt.”
> 
> Kathleen Coleman, a Harvard classics professor and a consultant on the movie “Gladiator,” found precedent in Roman chariot racing. “There could be terrible accidents at the turns, and if you sat at the end of the track you’d have a better view,” she said. She was reminded of an incident described by Suetonius, in which an actor performing for the emperor Nero attempted a stunt that went haywire. “It was probably some sort of acrobatic leap,” she said. “He crashed too close to where the Emperor was sitting and spattered the Emperor with blood.” The show? A retelling of the myth of Icarus, who, like the cast of “Spider-Man,” was having major flying issues.
> 
> 
> Read more Thrills and spills for the new Spider-Man musical : The New Yorker


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## Footer

Its also getting them more press then any show ever. Even bad press is better then no press. If they some how manage to get an even decent review after they open the show might do well. Everyone in the U.S. who does not have their head in the sand knows about this show. My grandparents who have never seen a Broadway show in their lives asked me about it over Christmas. The 3 toothed yokel who is taking a big trip to the city is going to see this show because they have heard about it and they might get to see something blow up. They aren't going to care that the book sucks. This is a tourist show for people who have never been to a Broadway show. Its in one of the closest theatres to times square as well which will help. I am starting to think this show is going to make it. I don't think its going to get anything come Tony time, but those things are sell outs anyway.


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## rochem

derekleffew said:


> From Stuntman goes to court claiming his head and knees were injured at 'Spider-Man' on Broadway :



Dang, those producers are sassy! 


> "The producers have no comment on the matter except to wish Mr. Kobak, *who is currently in the 'American Idiot' tour*, well."


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## porkchop

epimetheus said:


> So he makes all these "hard landings" with gear that wasn't calibrated for him? Shouldn't he have brought this up before he performed the stunts?



He probably did, but he was filling in. I imagine if he refused to go on until it was re-calibrated the producers would have just found someone else to do it and he wouldn't have gotten paid.


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## What Rigger?

Methinks this stuntman don't know what he's talkin' about. "Recalibrating"? Reeeeeeaaaaaalllllly????


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## Pie4Weebl

porkchop said:


> He probably did, but he was filling in. I imagine if he refused to go on until it was re-calibrated the producers would have just found someone else to do it and he wouldn't have gotten paid.



Yeah, except this is NYC and actors have quite the bit of union protection on bway, I can't imagine equity staying quite if they had tried that.


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## gafftaper

I assume these sorts of rigs are designed to move many hundreds of pounds if not thousands. I would also assume that the difference in 40lbs or so one way or another of a performers weight would be insignificant to the overall system. If the performer weighed 500lbs more than the previous guy then some work would probably be done, but a few pounds one way or another would make no difference on the way the system works. 

Could he be complaining about height? Say the system was designed to stop him at "X" inches above the deck. But he comes along and he's 6 inches taller than the other guy so his legs hit the deck 6" before the X stopping point and the deceleration is too hard on him...


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## josh88

gafftaper said:


> Could he be complaining about height? Say the system was designed to stop him at "X" inches above the deck. But he comes along and he's 6 inches taller than the other guy so his legs hit the deck 6" before the X stopping point and the deceleration is too hard on him...



With the term "recalibrated" that would be my guess as well rather than dealing with weight, instead it's adjusting how much travel there is, even if he's only a little taller that could make a big enough difference with the stuff they are doing. The change in weight wouldn't do too much to effect the speed or force with which he was being moved. Maybe not its not even the deceleration that's too hard on him its that because the other guy was perhaps shorter, when he hits the deck it is at a slower rate, but because his feet get there sooner the rig hasn't slowed his landing enough and he's hitting too hard.


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## shiben

josh88 said:


> With the term "recalibrated" that would be my guess as well rather than dealing with weight, instead it's adjusting how much travel there is, even if he's only a little taller that could make a big enough difference with the stuff they are doing. The change in weight wouldn't do too much to effect the speed or force with which he was being moved. Maybe not its not even the deceleration that's too hard on him its that because the other guy was perhaps shorter, when he hits the deck it is at a slower rate, but because his feet get there sooner the rig hasn't slowed his landing enough and he's hitting too hard.



A couple of strokes on a keyboard should be able to fix that for an automated system. I cant imagine no one would have done that.


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## josh88

shiben said:


> A couple of strokes on a keyboard should be able to fix that for an automated system. I cant imagine no one would have done that.



I suppose I didn't think of that, maybe they did forget or over look it, but I would think that with all the people likely involved somebody would have thought of that.


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## Chris15

I should have hoped there would be an SOP for that....


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## gafftaper

Chris15 said:


> I should have hoped there would be an SOP for that....



One would also assume they had an SOP for making sure people were properly hooked into their harness, but we know they didn't.


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## chausman

gafftaper said:


> One would also assume they had an SOP for making sure people were properly hooked into their harness, but we know they didn't.




Chris15 said:


> I should have hoped there would be an SOP for that....



Time to add SOP to the wiki?


EDIT: Thanks josh88.


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## mstaylor

Even if his height or even weight were different, the first time I hit hard I would have said something. I an't imagine they would blow him off after all the bad publicity they have endured.


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## Chris15

gafftaper said:


> One would also assume they had an SOP for making sure people were properly hooked into their harness, but we know they didn't.



I'd have thought in all the fallout after that, things may have changed...


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## porkchop

shiben said:


> A couple of strokes on a keyboard should be able to fix that for an automated system. I cant imagine no one would have done that.



Are you sure it's computer controlled. Physical limits would have been cheaper, and given that the show was built to never move venues just as effective. They would also be a lot more of a pain to reset (or "recalibrate").


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## blackisthenewblack

porkchop said:


> Are you sure it's computer controlled. Physical limits would have been cheaper, and given that the show was built to never move venues just as effective. They would also be a lot more of a pain to reset (or "recalibrate").



All you would need though, is different show files. I am assuming that the automated system would use three step process for movement, as weight isn't a recalibration issue as a digital system would sense it. So it would be an acceleration phase, travel after acceleration phase and deceleration phase. The only thing that would have to be different for each show file/performer would be the travel phase. Just take 6 inches off or whatever the height differentiation would be and you would be set.


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## porkchop

blackisthenewblack said:


> All you would need though, is different show files. I am assuming that the automated system would use three step process for movement, as weight isn't a recalibration issue as a digital system would sense it. So it would be an acceleration phase, travel after acceleration phase and deceleration phase. The only thing that would have to be different for each show file/performer would be the travel phase. Just take 6 inches off or whatever the height differentiation would be and you would be set.



Again that's assuming it's a computer controlled system. Given that the system was constructed to never be moved and to have one actor for extended periods of time a fully mechanical system could be used.


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## Pie4Weebl

porkchop said:


> Again that's assuming it's a computer controlled system. Given that the system was constructed to never be moved and to have one actor for extended periods of time a fully mechanical system could be used.



Aren't there like six different spidermans pershow?

And do we really think a 60 million dollar show, using the best people in the industry would half ass it?


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## blackisthenewblack

well, looking at this
, it looks like they have something like 6 lines in operation at once, and IIRC, FTSI was providing a system that was based upon a 6 point lifting system to allow spidey to fly over the audience.


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## What Rigger?

porkchop said:


> Again that's assuming it's a computer controlled system. Given that the system was constructed to never be moved and to have one actor for extended periods of time a fully mechanical system could be used.



It's all automation, friends.


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