# Coemar's new release Reflection LEDko



## athrow (Apr 12, 2011)

I saw this and it is impressive. There are some new breeds of lights in this release that are not in the market today. I have not ever heard of a soft profile before. What is this???

http://www.coemar.com


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## derekleffew (Apr 12, 2011)

athrow said:


> ...I have not ever heard of a soft profile before. What is this???


I've never heard of a soft profile spotlight before either. Perhaps it has something to do with the fixture having both a shutter and a barn door set?


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## kiwitechgirl (Apr 12, 2011)

I have heard people referring to the old Strand 264s, which had two sets of shutters, as "soft profiles" due to the "comb" shutters which gave you a soft shuttered edge. Only time I've ever heard the term though!


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## jglodeklights (Apr 12, 2011)

Based on what they write in their specifications, it is considered a profile type unit as it has focused optics. It seems that you can either use it as an ERS of sorts, or can defocus it and use it as a wash unit. The Barndoors appear removable.


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## MNicolai (Apr 12, 2011)

There's not much information published about this fixture yet so I've been unable to find out some of the more technical details on it, but I'm curious if they brought over the water-cooling they used on their wash fixture in the Reflection series, and if like those wash fixtures, the profiles cannot be pointed straight down.


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## smigit2002 (Apr 13, 2011)

I spoke with Coemar's dealer in the States.


derekleffew said:


> I've never heard of a soft profile spotlight before either. Perhaps it has something to do with the fixture having both a shutter and a barn door set?



Apparently when Coemar says there are "various angles available," they currently mean that you can purchase it with either a 26* lens, a Fresnel style or a PC style barrel. You can use the shutters in all configurations, but obviously you may need the extra control provided by the barndoors for the PC and Fresnel.



MNicolai said:


> I'm curious if they brought over the water-cooling they used on their wash fixture in the Reflection series


 
He says that there is no water cooling, just a "tiny fan that rarely comes on."

All in all, looks like it could be a cool toy. I'd love to see one with zoom optics, but that's just me.


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## shiben (Apr 13, 2011)

smigit2002 said:


> I spoke with Coemar's dealer in the States.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Or something other than a 26º beam, but thats just me.


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## derekleffew (Apr 14, 2011)

shiben said:


> Or something other than a 26º beam, but thats just me.


A post on another forum states

> It attaches the source four barrel assembly straight to the front of the ledko, so you get the shutters, iris slot, gobos, and then any barrel you want to use.


If this is true*, to my mind the Coemar unit would have a significant advantage over the RevEAL, AledIN, and Neeva.

*Which this picture appears to confirm.


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## smigit2002 (Apr 14, 2011)

Beat me to it, Derek.
The fixture's looking better every minute. Now if only we could get some photometrics...


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## jglodeklights (Apr 14, 2011)

That would explain why their website doesn't show any images of the front of the unit! If this is true what we are seeing, you would be able to use one LED unit for a variety of purposes, while getting full color changing ability. In my theater I can imagine having 34 of these, 4 of which would be equipped with Irises and on Apollo right arms, replacing over 80 conventional units. That's a lot of power saved, a lot of set up time saved. WOO Also easier to get those hemp lines up without 12 circuit mult on it!


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 14, 2011)

Derek, while the AledIN can't use S4 Barrels, it can use other RJ parts. (As explained to me at USITT) So while us American's might not get the most out of it, for those in Europe, where RJ is much more popular, they probably can.


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## CoemarNA (Apr 15, 2011)

The photoMetric data is on the Led Source web site

LEDSource: Welcome to LED Source

I have seen this unit in person and I'm not being bias. It is a true quality of light that you get from a flat field that is like no other light. I look at the photo metrics of etc and compared and i know all the manufacturers do different things with photo metric. I know the Source 4's lammed from my local rental house were not new lamps and not giving me the same reading as the photo metrics on the etc site, I can guaranty that. The out put is impressive. Basically you would use the 32 k as a key light as its out put is the closet (about 15%) to the S4 575w. the Full spectrum is = to S4 750w in color( Kills it). The veri White I would see used more in studios but not solely. 
As for the different optics. There is a patten on the Shutter before the Fresnel and pc lens that Coemar holds, and what that gives you is a really nice grainy falloff without the Barndoors. There are a lot of options to design from.


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## CoemarNA (Apr 15, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> A post on another forum states
> If this is true*, to my mind the Coemar unit would have a significant advantage over the RevEAL, AledIN, and Neeva.
> 
> *Which this picture appears to confirm.


 
I can confirm it is like a reto-fit for the S4 plus some extras AKA.... THE HOLY GRAIL


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## Les (Apr 15, 2011)

Looks like the future of stage lighting. Unfortunately, the future looks expensive!


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## MNicolai (Apr 15, 2011)

Les said:


> Looks like the future of stage lighting. Unfortunately, the future looks expensive!


 
For new installs and retrofits, it can be comparable and sometimes significantly cheaper to buy high-quality LED fixtures and use existing power sources. It sounds expensive because the price is so visible, but remember that all of these other costs go into turning your power-hungry incandescent fixtures on:

+ Cost of upgrading the electrical service to a building
+ Cost of a dimmer rack and modules
+ Cost of installation of dimmer rack, modules, and wiring
+ Cost of electrical raceways and power distribution
+ Consumables: Lamps, Gels, Gobos

The average theatre that's already got a 300-circuit dimming system in place won't see much ROI on LED fixtures if their intention is just to save money by not having to replace lamps and gels. On the other hand, facilities can really see some great ROI when it comes to either installing LED fixtures with minimal power and DMX distribution instead of upgrading their electrical service to make way for 400A/3phase for a couple new dimmer racks and all of the electrical contracting that goes into installing a dimmer rack and wiring the circuits up.

By the way -- the fastest way for a small community theatre to stop expanding their dimming systems is when they're told they need to have the service coming into the building upgraded before they can add any power on stage for event just a handful of shoebox dimmer packs. The cost of having a service upgraded can be enough to put a community theatre six feet under.

We're used to thinking that it's a $300 Incandescent ERS versus a $2000 LED ERS, but there are a lot of other costs that go into keeping the lights on for a decade beyond just the costs of the fixtures.

So on one hand, the price can be scary because it's much higher than theatre people are used to, but on the other hand, there are far fewer surprises in the dollar amounts for pricing out an LED system than for an incandescent system. At $2000 a fixture though, you need to have far better reasons to buy LED fixtures over incandescent fixtures than "it saves energy," because yes, it sort of does, but you'll never make up the other $1700/fixture over incandescents by shaving a few cents off of your electric bills each month.


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## jglodeklights (Apr 15, 2011)

50000 / 300 X $17 =$2667

This is the amount you can potentially save using LED Fixtures in lamp cost before the LEDs go, give or take depending on your preference of brand of lamp, supply cost in your area, etc. I use 300 hours because most LED ERS profile units are coming with lumen outputs comparable to an HPL 575 standard life- about 16000. Using 2000 hour lamps will result in only $400 in savings. However, keep in mind that with color mixing LED's you can cut any two color washes to one unit. This means the potential to almost double savings on lamps. 

Two Cents I have: LED's returns can vary widely.


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## CoemarNA (Apr 15, 2011)

I believe that most of the country knows the saving involved in LEDs and the whole green scenario. We see the trend in our retrofit department its not as hard of an ROI sell anymore its more of the tune of CRI, Color Temp and more design approach.

The Real up side to the LEDko adding to what MNicolai has already said is no more changing of the Gel
No bench focus
No need for Rosco, Apollo, and Gam's expencive gobos as you can print gobos on any standard printer.
Not as much use of cable due too daisy chaining (power con) up to 16 fixtures @208 
And the biggest one the group of fixtures you use for todays theatrical performance, change the optics and do a presidential debate with a full Fresnel front wash.

As for Cost if you invested $2800 for one light engine and 2 optics equaling 3 different types of lights thats only $933.00 a light. Now thats a real deal.


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## CoemarNA (Apr 16, 2011)

Our CEO Marcel at LED Source sums up what a LEDko is in one of his latest blog. 
There’s a quiet lighting revolution coming… you ready? « The Captain’s Blog 

This really out lines the Revolution........


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## CoemarNA (Apr 17, 2011)

Here is a video link of the LEDko.....


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## RJMS (May 1, 2011)

As for Cost if you invested $2800 for one light engine and 2 optics equaling 3 different types of lights thats only $933.00 a light. Now thats a real deal.[/QUOTE]

I know this is a brand new item and not yet for sale, but it seems as though you are giving us a ballpark figure for what they will sell for, around $2800 with 2 sets of optics, is that true? 
Of course I must take exception with your statement about getting "3" lights for that price. NOT SO! It is one fixture that I can change optics on. One pool of light at a time, not 3. Just like a traditional ERS with changeable barrels. Nice try though.

Regards,

Bob


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## soundlight (May 1, 2011)

For new installations, these eliminate lots of infrastructure that used to be necessary - dimmer racks? Not necessary. Massive multicables so that there are loads of circuits at each position? Not necessary. Replacement lamps? Not necessary. It's kind of a big deal.

I still have a hard time moving away from gel in theatre situations though, because there are transmittancy curves that you just cannot replicate, even with something like a Selador unit. The way some gel colors interact with costumes, sets and paints is very unique and I'd have a hard time doing a show with just LEDs.


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## Les (May 1, 2011)

RJMS said:


> Of course I must take exception with your statement about getting "3" lights for that price. NOT SO! It is one fixture that I can change optics on. One pool of light at a time, not 3. Just like a traditional ERS with changeable barrels. Nice try though.



I think they mean "three different types of fixtures". 
Example: Say you have two spaces; a blackbox and a proscenium theatre. You only use one at a time. The ERS instruments that you use as specials on your mainstage can become fresnels in your blackbox. I think that's what they mean. 

I also wouldn't say it's "just like a traditional ERS with interchangeable barrels". When was the last time you saw a "wash" lens tube?


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## RJMS (May 2, 2011)

> I think they mean "three different types of fixtures".
> Example: Say you have two spaces; a blackbox and a proscenium theatre. You only use one at a time. The ERS instruments that you use as specials on your mainstage can become fresnels in your blackbox. I think that's what they mean.



Duh. Yes. That is what the person said isn't it? Good catch, Les.


> As for Cost if you invested $2800 for one light engine and 2 optics equaling 3 different types of lights thats only $933.00 a light. Now thats a real deal.



The important and obvious point I was trying to make was that the person who posted the reply was saying $933 per light. Complete marketing speak. For your $2800 you still only have one light able to do one job at a time, with one beam angle, and one focus. Nice looking color though. And all the other obvious benefits of a low power fixture. Just do not try to sell me on the idea I am getting "3 lights for the price of one". I am not.


> I also wouldn't say it's "just like a traditional ERS with interchangeable barrels". When was the last time you saw a "wash" lens tube?



Sure. I should have said "Similar to.." rather then "Just like..". So sorry. And I so often forget about the diffusion filters that are available and that allow an ERS to mimic the look of a wash light. 

New tools are great, and I really, really like the looks of this one. If we can afford to have some around they will get used, probably a lot, but of course they will not be replacing our existing ERS inventory anytime soon.

Regards,

Bob


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## Les (May 2, 2011)

RJMS said:


> Duh. Yes. That is what the person said isn't it? Good catch, Les.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I see your point, and I agree with you. Here at Controlbooth, we like to challenge each other's posts. It helps us to dig deeper, qualify our opinions and ultimately, learn more. So, I hope you didn't take my challenging of your posts offensively, as it's not my intent to question your knowledge or intensions, but rather to elevate the level of discussion. We're all on the same team here. 

Welcome to the booth!


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## shiben (May 2, 2011)

RJMS said:


> Duh. Yes. That is what the person said isn't it? Good catch, Les.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I actually agree with you on a lot of this, Im looking at it saying well, a seachanger is how much less? I dont really want to spend 2800 bucks on a new light that I can get the same utility from a seachanger that costs a bit less. Looks like a cool light tho.


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## JChenault (May 5, 2011)

*LEDKO Photometrics. Am I looking at these wrong?*

Just got a link to the LEDko datasheets. 
DataSheet

Photometricds

Comparing the 26 degree 3200 Kelvin unit to the ETC S4 26 degree unit with a 300 hour 575 watt lamp ( the LEDko seems to use 120 watts ) at 9 meters 

LEDko puts out 255 LUX
ETC puts out about 1686 LUX

So for 4.8 times the power, the ETC puts out 6.6 times the light. ( in a white led).

I would have expected the LED to give more lumens per watt. 

Am I calculating this wrong? 
Does anyone have an explanation? ( other than perhaps a point source is substantially more efficient )


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## church (May 5, 2011)

Les said:


> I think they mean "three different types of fixtures".
> Example: Say you have two spaces; a blackbox and a proscenium theatre. You only use one at a time. The ERS instruments that you use as specials on your mainstage can become fresnels in your blackbox. I think that's what they mean.
> 
> I also wouldn't say it's "just like a traditional ERS with interchangeable barrels". When was the last time you saw a "wash" lens tube?


 
on a Nexera - I have two at home


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## len (Aug 31, 2011)

Les said:


> Looks like the future of stage lighting. Unfortunately, the future looks expensive!


 
What have you heard? I'd love to know the MSRP on this. I wonder how the gobo mfg. feel about it, since apparently you can create full color stuff on your printer and use it.


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## promocan (Nov 22, 2011)

*Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*

How badly do you need to update your profile? That is the question we are asking all staging, studio, installation and theater professionals throughout North America. In celebration of the launch of the new Reflection LEDko series by Coemar, LED Source will award one lucky winner with a Reflection LEDko LED lighting package worth over $20,000. 
Participants are asked to submit a short video of their lighting system that is in dire need of help. It should show their current lighting problems and why they should win. To enter visit www.facebook.com/ReflectionLEDko and click on the Contest tab. All entries must be submitted by January 18, 2012. A panel of experts made up of both LED Source and Coemar will then pick five finalists. Fans of the Reflection LEDko Facebook page will then begin voting on January 21, 2012 and a grand prize winner will be announced on January 31, 2012. 
The entry with the most votes will win a package of eight Reflection LEDko fixtures with either hard or soft edge optics included. Enter the LEDko Challenge Contest today.


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## chausman (Nov 22, 2011)

Could go great for the person who wins the EOS series console!


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## promocan (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*


chausman said:


> Could go great for the person who wins the EOS series console!


 
Absolutely. This is really a simple contest. You can even use your Smartphone to record a video. Just show us what you have and why you are in need of a new lighting rig. Do you know anyone that might want to enter?


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## Footer (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*


promocan said:


> Absolutely. This is really a simple contest. You can even use your Smartphone to record a video. Just show us what you have and why you are in need of a new lighting rig. Do you know anyone that might want to enter?


 
My wife will be making a video....


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## promocan (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*


Footer said:


> My wife will be making a video....


 
Excellent - we look forward to seeing it.


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## chausman (Nov 22, 2011)

promocan said:


> . Do you know anyone that might want to enter?


 
I would like to, but we would need to win a new console first. We have an old GSX so we cant even control what we have now, let alone new LED fixtures. :sad:


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## DuckJordan (Nov 23, 2011)

*Re: Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*

I'd totally enter, but I don't have a space or any fixtures as of right now.


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## promocan (Dec 2, 2011)

*Re: Take the LEDko Challenge - $20K Grand Prize*

Great new entry on the LEDko Challenge from the Cincinnati Shakespeare Company. 
Don't forget, you could win $20K of Reflection LEDko fixtures for your school, theater, or other corporate install. Enter at the Facebook Reflection LEDko Page. Submissions close January 18th. Check out the latest entry now at CSC Lighting Contest Entry - YouTube


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## Esoteric (May 30, 2012)

*New LEDko*

Hey guys, we just got in samples of our new LEDkos. We are really pleased with the results. So far only one pic.

It is on the left, with a traditional Source4 of the same beam angle on the right. The camera auto adjusted the color temp to the LED (which shows you how much "whiter" the LED unit is).

The dimming curve on a scale of 1-10 is about an 8 (and I am very picky). It works well at any timing, I can't make it choppy if I try. It almost exactly mimics an incandescent curve until you hit about 1.5%-2%.

We are sending it out on a demo tomorrow, I will try and get the person demoing to post here after they look at it.

Here is the photo. We haven't put a photometer on it, but to the naked eye, it is brighter and the field is more even.

Of course, you do have to contend with a completely different color spectrum (with spikes in strange places) so you have to adjust how you look at gel, but overall we are very, very happy with how the unit looks/handles/works.


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## JChenault (May 30, 2012)

*Re: New LEDko*

Which version of the ledko was this? Full spectrum, variWhite, or White?

What kind of lamp in the S4 ?


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