# QLab, ETC Eos, and Airport Extreme?



## thenameisnat (Apr 11, 2015)

The theater I work at (as a high school student) is in the process of buying QLab for sound cues. I was looking into lighting control, which would be interesting for things like dance recitals, and timing lights to music. I came across QLX, which allows for control of Eos consoles through networking, with script cues in QLab. Does anyone have any experience with this? We use an ETC Element 250-channel, and it would be interesting to network that. 

To actually control the board, I'm looking into the Apple AirPort Extreme, which would create a wireless network that the QLab computer and the Element could connect to (via Ethernet for the Element, as it does not contain a wireless card. Furthermore, the AirPort could be used as a gateway for wireless QLab control through the iOS app, and remote control of the Element through the Eos Remote. I'm wondering if anyone had ever done anything like this, and what anyone's thoughts on it would be. Thanks!


----------



## sk8rsdad (Apr 12, 2015)

The most common ways to connect QLab to an Element is via MIDI. For ethernet protocols, UDP strings are likely the most popular option today, although OSC is coming in a future release. Element has some networking limitations so you may want to check the manual to confirm it supports UDP strings.

Wireless is not a reliable choice for this sort of control. Introducing an IOS app into the mix is an unnecessary complexity.


----------



## robartsd (Apr 13, 2015)

If you do choose wireless (in spite of reliability concerns), I see no reason to choose Apple to supply the wireless router. Just pick up a 4-port wifi router for arround $50. If it is at all feasable to get a wired connection between your QLab machine and the Element, do it. You could wire both directly to a wifi router to have a reliable wired connection between the two and provide wifi access to them both for remote control if desired for convienience.


----------



## RileyChilds (Apr 13, 2015)

Lets not use wireless to run a show...just sayin. The main reason why wire is king is because you don't have issues that could bring down a show like interference. We have a Symbol Wireless AP that is used with our Strand RFU, if you do go for an access point (for use as an RFU  ) don't go with an AirPort, they are just expensive and in my opinion something just as good for what you need can be had for less (I am a fan of the Ubiquiti LR: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005H4CDF4/?tag=controlbooth-20)
Keep in mind that QLX is about to be defunct with an upcoming ETC Eos update.
But I cannot reiterate enough the issues that can be introduced by using 802.11 to run a show, I have been there, done that and suffered the consequences.
//Riley


----------



## Drew Schmidt (Apr 14, 2015)

I know everyone has said this, but it's worth repeating. Don't use wireless for show control unless you _absolutely_ have to. I've had students create projects where every single cue was executed by a phone or tablet hidden inside a prop. Yes. It's possible. But it introduces a world of headaches. 

So between Qlab and your Element, be sure to wire them up through your Router. 

Until OSC is released in the next update of the Element board, you're stuck with MIDI or UDP strings. Since you don't have a MIDI device and are wanting to use Ethernet, UDP is your best bet. I actually use this over MIDI constantly since my systems are already wired up; even during tech where the board is in the house. To start, take a look at the ETC Show Control manual. On page 5, it'll show you how to step into the setup system. You'll want to enabled [String Rx] and then set a port number for [String Rx Port]. I usually use 7000. It's a pretty common port for this stuff. Finally, go into the diagnostics page of your board and figure out what your IP address is.

Next in Qlab, go into your settings, then into the OSC patching. For one of your patches, name it as Element, give it a port of 7000, and specify the IP address of your Element. 

Now you can create a new OSC cue in Qlab. You'll have to specify the destination to be your Element that you just patched, then change the Message type to be "Raw UDP string". From here, you can just enter the UDP strings you need to control the board. If you stay in the diagnostics page in your element, you can watch the strings come in (if you wired it all up correctly). Here are some examples of strings I'll use, but you can see the system on page 23 of the show control manual referenced above.

To execute cue number 102 in Cue List 6, use ...
Cue 6 102#

To just hit go, use ...
Go 1#

To bring up some channels, use ...
$ Chan 1 Thru 10 At Full#
This one is different because it's not a prescribed command, it's copying the command line, so it needs to start with the dollar sign

Hopefully that helps. 

Also, if you connect these two via a wireless router, yes, that would also allow you to connect to the board and Qlab via their respective phone apps.


----------



## np18358 (Apr 14, 2015)

I have used this exact same setup in one of our theatres. It works well most of the time, but when we get a lot of people in the audience, we get little hiccups in the connection, and the OSC can become messed up/out of time. QLAB and the console will get out of time. For just the QLAB remote and IOS phone remote, they have always worked perfectly, but the OSC is so specific that even the smallest break in signal has caused issues. I would highly recommend what is suggested above. That is the setup we use now, and it works perfectly.


----------



## Joshualangman (Apr 14, 2015)

For using QLX, you should just be able to connect the console to the Mac with a single ethernet cable, no router involved.

If you then want to also use QLab Remote in rehearsals, just connect over an existing WiFi network or make a separate network for that, maybe an ad-hoc network.

If you do ever need to use WiFi in a production, I have heard from many sources, and found myself, that the Apple AirPort Extreme is very reliable for this purpose. I wouldn't buy a different router for show-critical WiFi.


----------



## RileyChilds (Apr 14, 2015)

This gets into a huge debate over what is reliable and what is not. There is NO reason you should ever run anything show critical over a wireless link.


----------



## np18358 (Apr 14, 2015)

RileyChilds said:


> This gets into a huge debate over what is reliable and what is not. There is NO reason you should ever run anything show critical over a wireless link.


I think that also begs the question of what is show critical and what isn't. While I agree, wired is always the first choice, it is not always an option. Many Broadway shows run extensive amounts of gear that I am sure they would consider "Show Critical" on City Theatrical Wireless DMX. Are wireless Microphones Show Critical? I think it depends on the situation, but I don't believe a blanket statement that there is no reason you should use wireless for show critical applications is accurate. Also, different levels of redundancy are required for different tasks. With all wireless elements/gimmick effects, I always try and think about what would happen if the system failed. If there is ever the potential that the loss of wireless signal due to any reason would result in injury to a person, it shouldn't be done. If it is a question of a minor inconvenience, or simply having to go without a small gimmick/effect in the show, go for it. We have shaky school district wifi, and sometimes it cuts out, especially after school hours when the IT techs aren't monitoring it. When the Qlab Remote over wifi stops working, it is annoying, but it doesn't ever cause major problems, we just make do without it. I think that there are many pro's and con's to wireless systems, but it is very dependant on the specific application and also how much you are willing to spend/how many layers of redundancy you can build in. That being said, I believe most people find many wireless systems to be extremely dependable, and rely on them for many things.


----------



## robartsd (Apr 14, 2015)

np18358 said:


> Many Broadway shows run extensive amounts of gear that I am sure they would consider "Show Critical" on City Theatrical Wireless DMX. Are wireless Microphones Show Critical?


Both of these applications use wireless devices designed specifically to the task. Relying on wifi is not the same thing. While I agree that using wifi to enable a non-critical gimmick is worth considering, I wouldn't recommend depending on it.


----------



## Joshualangman (Apr 16, 2015)

And even when using off-the-shelf WiFi, obviously it should be a dedicated show network, secured with a password, and hidden so it doesn't show up on people's phones etc.


----------



## baysidetech (Jul 2, 2015)

At my venue, we have a slightly over 400 seat house with ETC Element with an all LED lighting system, all of which are ETC S4 and ETC D60's, excluding cyc lights, and, I have 0 idea what model they are, but for sound (my department) we are running a Roland M-200i with Shure ULXP4 receivers patched straight in to the board, and all panel inputs running to a REAC digital snake in the catwalks over REAC to the board. If you are familiar with the board, you may know that it has the option to be controlled by an iPad. We are having huge problems with connectivity of the board to the iPad. Our solution: We are purchasing (1) Airport Extreme, and (2) Airport Expresses. The Extreme will sit on the catwalk above the Epson Z8150NL Projector, hardwired for remote control and projection, and will be the main base station. One of the two Expresses will be in the lighting booth housed in the catwalks, and the other will be in the sound booth at the FOH. They will both be wirelessly connected to the Extreme, and the one at the sound board will be patched to an input on the board for Airplay, so we can listen to music while rigging, etc... However, the way our building is wired, I have an extra CAT5E or 6 cable meant as a redundant REAC, but I am going to run it to the sound equipment room, and either run a cable out to the Extreme, or see if I can have it control anything in the rack over software or something. I might also pick up a USB Drive for network storage on the Extreme or something, but I am still debating that. Both the LD and I work on Mac and use iPhones, so the system Should be seamless, but we will see that in time. But, hopefully this will take care of my connection problems as well, as I do consider the iPad control "Show Critical" as there are only 16 faders on the board so I use an iPad to control more channels. Any comments or suggestions?


----------

