# Behringer buys Midas and Klark Teknik



## SHARYNF (Dec 29, 2009)

I know most of use don't have a great deal of respect for Behringer's products BUT this Acquisition should definitely shake things up

FOH online

Sharyn


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## Thefoxygranpa (Dec 29, 2009)

Yargh!

I saw the news earlier this month and meant to post it here! I know that KT and Midas' both say in their press releases they will remain separate entities and all, but I foresee a day when both of their manufacturing will be moved to China or the such. Hopefully this acquisition will lead to better standards on Behringers part, but time will tell.

I was honestly shocked and couldn't believe it until I read it for myself on Midas' website...take a look if anyone is interested.

Midas Consoles


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## Anonymous067 (Dec 29, 2009)

Well I guess now is the time to invest in any KT or Midas gear before it all goes to crap...right?


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## cutlunch (Dec 29, 2009)

I am a bit of a Behringer fan.

A school I was at had an old 32 channel Behringer desk but they did professional grade sound for school musicals with it.

I was having this sort of discussion with a couple of guys who do sound on some big name movies.
I mentioned Allan & Heath and they called it "Allan and Hiss".

So I thought I would stir and mentioned Behringer. 
But I was surprised when they stated that some of the Behringer gear is good.

I think Behringer probably has let more people experiment with sound mixing / processing then other makers.


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## Footer (Dec 29, 2009)

Black and Decker owns dewault.... Ford owns Jaguar... Mackie owns EAW. Hopefully it will turn out OK. I doubt they will cheapen the Midas line. It should actually drop prices a bit because they will be able to get materials cheaper.


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## Anvilx (Dec 29, 2009)

But Black and Decker owns:
DeWalt
Porter-Cable
Delta Machinery
DeVilbiss Air Power
Kwikset
Baldwin
Weiser Lock
Price Pfister
Emhart Teknologies
Oldham Blades
Black and Decker Firestorm (FAIL)​
Thanks Wikipedia

It is not a matter of so much who owns who its a matter of how they run them. In my opinion it doesn't make a lot of sense to "cheapen" Midas, their products are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Behringer probably just sees it as a way for them to diversify their holdings.


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## SHARYNF (Dec 29, 2009)

ULI Behringer is NOT a hands off guy. It is interesting to see how both Midas and KT were very interested in doing this deal, it was not like it was a hostile situation.

My guess is Uli's china connections for manufacturing, and like some of the articles said that fact that Behringer was at least experienced in this market space unlike the whole Loud/Mackie/Eaw Sun deal

Personally I think Uli really wants to improve the image, and also improve the quality of the products Behringer makes, and he will use this as the launch pad for an image overhall. It will take some time, but the prestige aspect of Midas and KT will certainly be a starting place 

Sharyn


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## museav (Dec 29, 2009)

Footer said:


> Black and Decker owns dewault.... Ford owns Jaguar... Mackie owns EAW.


And the last was good in what way? It should also be clarified that just as Mackie does not own EAW, it is actually LOUD that owns Mackie and EAW, in this case it is a holding company that owns Behringer, Midas and Klark-Teknik, not Behringer owning K-T and Midas. In theory that could allow the companies to remain more independent, for example it makes it easier for them to have different dealers and distribution, while taking advantage of shared resources where it can be beneficial. But that is all up to the management and decision are often made based on what could benefit the holding company rather than the individual lines. They could see Midas as a flagship line that helps legitimize Behringer being of value or they could see that putting the Midas name on Behringer quality gear means more to them or they could let them continue much as is, we'll just have to see.

An interesting related issue is that Bosch apparently sold off Midas and Klark-Teknik because they did not fit into their long term plans, which seem more focused on building systems (security, access control, life safety, paging, etc.). This makes one wonder what may happen to Electro-Voice as the MI and pro/touring sound portions of their product lines would seem to be similar to Midas and K-T and also not fit those plans.


Footer said:


> Hopefully it will turn out OK.


I hope so too, but unless they learn from previous such relationships I'm not betting on it.


Footer said:


> I doubt they will cheapen the Midas line. It should actually drop prices a bit because they will be able to get materials cheaper.


One concern I have is that Behringer gets much of their pricing advantage from mass production in China. Unlike some other manufacturers, I believe these are dedicated facilities, but the only way I see the production aspect reducing Midas or K-T product costs significantly is if the production moves to the same facilities as Behringer and uses some of the same components. Another concern is that K-T and Midas products involve a lot of R&D and support effort compared to most of Behringer's products, as well as having very different distribution and dealership models. Having multiple distribution channels, dealer networks, support resources, etc. would not seem to be taking advantage of the potential savings of sharing resources but not having them could change things quite a bit. To me that is what will be interesting to see as these aspects could be affected even if the products are not. Imagine someone buying an XL8 online or at a mass retailer because they got it for $249,000 instead of $250,00 from a traditional dealer.


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## ankursamtaney (Dec 29, 2009)

museav said:


> Unlike some other manufacturers, I believe these are dedicated facilities


That's true. I've gathered that Behringer outsources NOTHING. Everything from their speaker drivers, to cabinets, to internal crossovers, etc are made in their factory in China (which also is owned by the company!)
I'm sure every other company that makes gear at similar prices outsources something or the other from 3rd party manufacturers.


museav said:


> but the only way I see the production aspect reducing Midas or K-T product costs significantly is if the production moves to the same facilities as Behringer and uses some of the same components. Another concern is that K-T and Midas products involve a lot of R&D and support effort compared to most of Behringer's products, as well as having very different distribution and dealership models. Having multiple distribution channels, dealer networks, support resources, etc. would not seem to be taking advantage of the potential savings of sharing resources but not having them could change things quite a bit.


 
I highly doubt that Midas/KT will ever move to China. The heads of Behringer and Midas/KT have clearly mentioned that that WILL NOT happen. Also, there will be no mixing, merging or whatever else of their respective R&D teams, distribution channels and intellectual property. Apparently Midas/KT would help Behringer R&D to come up with better stuff, but you WILL NOT see an original Midas mic pre on a Behringer Mixer. 

Here's a full-fledged exclusive interview with Uli Behringer and John Oakley. Check it out if interested: INTERVIEW: Behringer touches Midas | Musical Instrument Professional | Features by Mi Pro


museav said:


> To me that is what will be interesting to see as these aspects could be affected even if the products are not. Imagine someone buying an XL8 online or at a mass retailer because they got it for $249,000 instead of $250,00 from a traditional dealer.


I'm sure I wouldn't if it was $1000 cheaper. Would be a different story if it were going for $150,000


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## museav (Dec 29, 2009)

ankursamtaney said:


> I highly doubt that Midas/KT will ever move to China. The heads of Behringer and Midas/KT have clearly mentioned that that WILL NOT happen. Also, there will be no mixing, merging or whatever else of their respective R&D teams, distribution channels and intellectual property. Apparently Midas/KT would help Behringer R&D to come up with better stuff, but you WILL NOT see an original Midas mic pre on a Behringer Mixer.
> 
> Here's a full-fledged exclusive interview with Uli Behringer and John Oakley. Check it out if interested: INTERVIEW: Behringer touches Midas | Musical Instrument Professional | Features by Mi Pro


I don't think such definitive statements are possible. Comparable statements have been made in similar situations in the past with things then changing down the line. I take press releases like that referenced to be nothing more than trying to keep stockholders happy and minimize the immediate losses that are bound to happen to some degree. This is simply a situation that has had difficulty working well in the past and I haven't yet seen anything that makes me more optimistic on this one but all we can really do at this point is to wait and see.


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## SHARYNF (Dec 30, 2009)

I have to say that if you really look at the PR SPEAK, there is a lot more going on here than some of the posts seem to acknowledge.

First of all ULI is the guy on the Acquire side doing all the talking, This idea of all these individual entities etc etc, and that this is the "Music Group" not Behringer is mis guided, ULI is ULI and Behringer is Uli. He pulled off a major acquisition in difficult times and he will do his utmost to maximize its value to Behringer. 
It is like Greg Mackie and Bob Carver, these guys and their companies when they are control of the company become one and the same. 

We will see, but I think ULI did this because the missing thing for Behringer was reputation and prestige, and he bought two companies that get high marks in both. Uli saw IMHO that he had the "systems" and the "Manufacturing" but a crap reputation and no prestige. Remember that this is the guy who was more than willing to basically completely copy existing designs. So all this "love Fest" nothing will change, IMHO is very very unlikely to happen. Every acquisition at the announcement stage says all this, the as time goes on and the bean counters get involved it comes down to maximizing
profit. Who wants to bet that in the not too distant future, we see announcement of: How moving Manufacturing to Behringer City China was an excellent solution, allowing Midas and KT to remain competitive is a the market and expand the customer base to a wider range of customers, and how the Behringer line now has this or that Midas or KT designed feature

Anyway we will see

Sharyn


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## Dionysus (Dec 30, 2009)

All too often when companies buy more and more related companies they give a proud speech about keeping the integrity of the original company (they did buy them for a reason too, which seems to support their statement). But eventually they try to consolidate in order to save money either in production or R&D.

Why develop 2 very different preamps with two R&D departments, when you can spend half the money (if not less) to develop ONE preamp to use on ALL your products?

The same thing happened here in my home-town. Champion Road Machinery (one of our key industries) was well known for making the world's BEST road graders. Their production facilities were not huge, but they turned out a highly desirable product at a speed that kept them in buisness. Their product was so good that 40 years later their road graders were still in fully functional use.
So Volvo with their Construction Equipment line, bought-out Champion and promised to keep the original plant open, and maintain the integrity of the product.

Volvo CE at first puts both the Volvo and Champion name on the product. Then very shortly after only the Volvo name.

They also design a new grader, working off of Champions already in-the-works design. The engineers decide to remove a reinforcement piece (they did the maths and figure it is not necessary, they can cut the cost of production). This leads to a grader that split itself in two.
Champion's R&D and included that piece for a good reason.
Then Volvo decides to cut costs by closing the parts manufacturing facilities that were part of Champion. Redesigning the products slightly to use many of the same parts as their other equipment, and making the parts in Europe.
This goes on and on... Now all the Champion plants/facilities are shut down, they are selling everything off, and they are putting all their North American manufacturing into one large plant in the US.
The town has lost a key industry, causing the closure of several other companies locally, and a sudden spike in unemployment.

But Volvo is saving a LOT of money.

Just a cautionary tale. I hope nothing like this happens to Midas and KT.


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## BillESC (Jan 4, 2010)

Keep in mind, Uli and an undisclosed partner, not Behringer purchased the two companies.

Uli wants to move up in the sound industry and certainly can't with the Behringer name. Times will tell.


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