# Strand SN103 Node Issues



## icewolf08 (Aug 17, 2009)

So, I got back to work today after being gone all summer (the theatre is dark for the summer) and when I fired up the system I noticed that my SN103 Node was just sitting there with all its lights blinking about once every second in unison. I got no output from it, and it doesn't show up in the network devices list on the console. So, I opened it up and notice that the fan inside also seems to be "blinking" as-it-were, or trying to go and then not, like stuttering. So, this lead me to believe that it may be an issue with the power supply for the unit. I know that the line voltage is OK, it meters fine and the node is plugged into a UPS/Power conditioner. However on the DC side the voltage seems to be fluctuating between 5V and 15V. I have never metered the power in the node during normal operation, so I don't know if this is a bad thing, but is seems unusual. Unfortunately it isn't your typical wall wart or computer power supply, it is built into the node housing, so I can't just find another to test.

So, I called my local Strand shop and they are looking into it, but I figured that I might turn to CB and see if there is any collective wisdom to be had. Or maybe one of you has an extra SN103 sitting unused under your desk? So if you have any insight into the issue, let me know.


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## Darthrob13 (Aug 18, 2009)

From the sound of it your 103 has maybe hit EOL.

Are you using the video feature? Or just DMX distribution?


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## gafftaper (Aug 18, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> Or maybe one of you has an extra SN103 sitting unused under your desk? So if you have any insight into the issue, let me know.



Sorry Alex, it's sitting on top of my desk and you can't have it. 

My nodes open up really easily. Can you open it up and take a look/sniff to see if maybe the power supply's toasted on the inside? 

You say it's plugged into a UPS. Have you tried it on another UPS or straight to the wall on another circuit? Could be the UPS is bad. 

Did you check your DMX lines? Doesn't make much sense considering the fan, but I always like to rule out EVERYTHING.


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## icewolf08 (Aug 18, 2009)

Darthrob13 said:


> From the sound of it your 103 has maybe hit EOL.
> 
> Are you using the video feature? Or just DMX distribution?



We are using just for data distribution. It doesn't even power on enough to make a display know that it is even there, let alone display anything. I tried this yesterday.


gafftaper said:


> Sorry Alex, it's sitting on top of my desk and you can't have it.
> 
> My nodes open up really easily. Can you open it up and take a look/sniff to see if maybe the power supply's toasted on the inside?
> 
> ...



I opened up the node, that is how I metered the power coming out of the transformer. I did try plugging it into a plain old outlet and it did the same thing, not to mention that the other devices (opto splitter and such) that are on the UPS are working fine. I did try the node with nothing connected, no DMX, no network, and it still did the same thing.

It seems like it is just the power supply that is going, but I don't know. Hopefully if that is the problem it will be easy to fix. I should hear back from my local guys today, and depending on the news they have I may just call Strand direct.


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## Darthrob13 (Aug 18, 2009)

Say Hi to Mark for me.


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## rschwimmer (Aug 18, 2009)

Alex,


We just had another person TODAY have an SN103 go bad. We don't stock any parts or able to fix that node anymore.


My best solution is for you to call Joel, or Sal at Century Lighting in New Jersey: 201-791-7000.

They are great with our older products, and will either have the parts you need, or able to have you send it to them to fix.

Hope that helps, sorry you are having problems with your node.


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## icewolf08 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, my local guys are going to make some phone calls for me, I have other fish to fry over the next few days. Hopefully we can find a solution. So here is a question. Does anyone know what the DC supply voltage to the node is supposed to be? If it is just the power supply I could probably hunt up a new one if I knew what the specs were. I can't find any information about the SN103 on Strand's website.


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## icewolf08 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, I built an adapter to feed 24VDC, the required power for the node, from one of my scroller PSUs. Lo and behold, the node works, thus confirming that it is an issue with the built in power supply. Does anyone know what the amperage spec is for the SN103? If I know that then I can just buy a new power supply!


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## STEVETERRY (Aug 18, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> So, I got back to work today after being gone all summer (the theatre is dark for the summer) and when I fired up the system I noticed that my SN103 Node was just sitting there with all its lights blinking about once every second in unison. I got no output from it, and it doesn't show up in the network devices list on the console. So, I opened it up and notice that the fan inside also seems to be "blinking" as-it-were, or trying to go and then not, like stuttering. So, this lead me to believe that it may be an issue with the power supply for the unit. I know that the line voltage is OK, it meters fine and the node is plugged into a UPS/Power conditioner. However on the DC side the voltage seems to be fluctuating between 5V and 15V. I have never metered the power in the node during normal operation, so I don't know if this is a bad thing, but is seems unusual. Unfortunately it isn't your typical wall wart or computer power supply, it is built into the node housing, so I can't just find another to test.
> 
> So, I called my local Strand shop and they are looking into it, but I figured that I might turn to CB and see if there is any collective wisdom to be had. Or maybe one of you has an extra SN103 sitting unused under your desk? So if you have any insight into the issue, let me know.



What a great opportunity to upgrade to ETC NET3 Gateways and E1.31 Streaming ACN!

Let us know how we can help!



ST


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## STEVETERRY (Aug 18, 2009)

rschwimmer said:


> Alex,
> 
> 
> We just had another person TODAY have an SN103 go bad. We don't stock any parts or able to fix that node anymore.



Wow, that's kind of amazing! What are all those SN103 owners going to do?

Must be nice to just walk away from service on a product that is a pain but not even very old! How do you do that?

ST


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## LightStud (Aug 18, 2009)

It's somewhat reassuring that Strand's record of Customer Service remains consistent.

I need some parts for my SLD dimmers and Outlook system, can you help me?

I never had this problem when I could just call up Chuck Levy.


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## Darthrob13 (Aug 19, 2009)

Really?

How many of us are using desktops that are 12 years old?
Want to replace the 386 processor? Good luck.

As it happens, on my last day at Strand I inventoried hundreds of SLD parts. What do you need? Dallas can build you a brand new Outlook station if you really want (the same guy that built them in Cypress is building VN in Dallas now).

The Strand today has precious little in common with the Strand that existed 3 years ago. Don't believe me, call Doug Pickering or Patrick Henry or Julie Smith or Randy.


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## jmabray (Aug 19, 2009)

The problem with your analogy is that computer systems like that have a planned obselesence. They weren't designed to last 10-20 years like a dimmer system is.

Unfortunately, Strand is going to be compared to ETC (in this respect and many others). ETC still will support and repair its products that are 25 and 30 years old. They will even support and repair products that they themselves never actually made - products that were only made by companies that they have since acquired. 

While the Strand of today may be very different, its going to be difficult to convice end users of that while they still perpetuate what appears to be the poor service of old.

I hope that they do get better in this area as they have in others- while they have always made a pretty good product, that seems to have actually gotten better with the additional funding that a larger parent company can bring. It's just sad that they didn't decide to fund the service department in the same way as they did R&D. Lets hope that they will continue to support their new product for longer than a couple of years after manufacture.


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## STEVETERRY (Aug 19, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> So, I got back to work today after being gone all summer (the theatre is dark for the summer) and when I fired up the system I noticed that my SN103 Node was just sitting there with all its lights blinking about once every second in unison. I got no output from it, and it doesn't show up in the network devices list on the console. So, I opened it up and notice that the fan inside also seems to be "blinking" as-it-were, or trying to go and then not, like stuttering. So, this lead me to believe that it may be an issue with the power supply for the unit. I know that the line voltage is OK, it meters fine and the node is plugged into a UPS/Power conditioner. However on the DC side the voltage seems to be fluctuating between 5V and 15V. I have never metered the power in the node during normal operation, so I don't know if this is a bad thing, but is seems unusual. Unfortunately it isn't your typical wall wart or computer power supply, it is built into the node housing, so I can't just find another to test.
> 
> So, I called my local Strand shop and they are looking into it, but I figured that I might turn to CB and see if there is any collective wisdom to be had. Or maybe one of you has an extra SN103 sitting unused under your desk? So if you have any insight into the issue, let me know.



Recognizing that a valued customer is in a pickle here, ETC is prepared to do the following:

1. Send you a Strand SN103 "loaner" node.
2. Repair your failed SN103 at standard ETC service rates and turnaround time.

Alex, please coordinate with David North (x5060) at ETC if you would like us to do this.

Regards,

ST


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## Darthrob13 (Aug 19, 2009)

So ETC is now willing to be a Strand service center. I'll make sure everyone knows this.

Goodluck.


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## icewolf08 (Aug 19, 2009)

Ok, this all stops here. I asked what I thought was a simple question and we are now way out of proportion. I do not want to be in the middle of a debate between Strand and ETC nor did I intend to spark one. I do not want any of what was spoken here in this thread to reflect poorly on myself as an industry professional, and as a representative of controlbooth. I also do not want any of the parties involved in this discussion to be alienated by myself or by the ControlBooth community. I will make any necessary arrangements for service and support outside of the public eye, and I would suggest that the representatives of any companies involved please do the same. If any parties involved would like to speak to me directly, please feel free to email me at: [email protected] or to call me, my office phone is listed here.

That being said, will someone please answer the last question I asked. I want to know what the power requirements are for SN103. I know it needs 24VDC, just want to know how many amps it needs. By the same token, is there any reason why I shouldn't just go down to the local electronics store and pick up a 24V power supply, hook it up and call it a day. I know that it is only the power supply that is toast, as I said before, I hooked up the node to an Apollo 75W SmartPower PSU (with a 4-pin XLR to bare tails adapter) and it powers up and works fine. So all I want to know is if there is any reason not to do this.

If we cannot keep this discussion back on topic then I will close it. I would even consider deleting it to preserve the integrity of myself, controlbooth and all other parties involved.


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## rschwimmer (Aug 19, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> Ok, this all stops here. I asked what I thought was a simple question and we are now way out of proportion. I do not want to be in the middle of a debate between Strand and ETC nor did I intend to spark one. I do not want any of what was spoken here in this thread to reflect poorly on myself as an industry professional, and as a representative of controlbooth. I also do not want any of the parties involved in this discussion to be alienated by myself or by the ControlBooth community. I will make any necessary arrangements for service and support outside of the public eye, and I would suggest that the representatives of any companies involved please do the same. If any parties involved would like to speak to me directly, please feel free to email me at: [email protected] or to call me, my office phone is listed here.
> 
> That being said, will someone please answer the last question I asked. I want to know what the power requirements are for SN103. I know it needs 24VDC, just want to know how many amps it needs. By the same token, is there any reason why I shouldn't just go down to the local electronics store and pick up a 24V power supply, hook it up and call it a day. I know that it is only the power supply that is toast, as I said before, I hooked up the node to an Apollo 75W SmartPower PSU (with a 4-pin XLR to bare tails adapter) and it powers up and works fine. So all I want to know is if there is any reason not to do this.
> 
> If we cannot keep this discussion back on topic then I will close it. I would even consider deleting it to preserve the integrity of myself, controlbooth and all other parties involved.


 

I am emailing you as I write this....I am multi-talented!!!


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## rmarston (Aug 20, 2009)

Hi Alex,

I bet the power supply used in the node is a switchmode PS. From the symptom - sounds like the PWM is hitting current limit. The question is - is the power supply at fault or the node electronics. Can you disconnect the PS from the node electronics? And if you can - does the PS output proper voltage when disconnected? If it does then probably it's a bad node CCA. Just some ideas to try if you want.


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## gafftaper (Aug 20, 2009)

Steve you and ETC have treated me amazingly well over an insignificant little problem. Last year I opened an S4 PAR and it was missing the little bolt that holds the yoke onto that post that sticks out the side of the fixture. I sent ST a PM late at night asking who to contact to get another one. At 9 am the next morning someone from ETC called me at home apologizing (I still can't figure out how your people got my home number). I got the bolt and some swag the next day. ETC is VERY cool like that. There are very few companies in the world that work so hard to keep their customers happy. 

When their system turn on guy didn't know how to train me properly on the new console, Strand flew a guy in from Toronto on short notice to give me a proper training. I think that my initial problem was a symptom of the old culture of how things used to be at Strand, however it was really clear to me that the solution was an example of how they have changed. Later we determined that my system was missing a DMX node in order to put the stage manager's panel on the network. This was really the fault of the system designer and not Strand. But the Strand tech department stood up and sent me a node for free so that the system would work correctly. That was way beyond anything I expected them to do. Am I worried what will happen in 15 years when my system needs repair... yeah a little. But so far things *have* been different. 


Darthrob13 said:


> The Strand today has precious little in common with the Strand that existed 3 years ago.



I don't want to fan the flames of this little family feud. However, I think it's important to point out that Rob no longer works for Strand. He has no reason to be defending them. In fact, he has a pretty legitimate reason to be angry at Strand for closing his office and moving it out of state. However, he chooses to defend them and argue that things are different there now.


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## rschwimmer (Aug 21, 2009)

Thank you for the love Gafftapper. We are really working hard to get things in the right order here. I am constantly looking at things on here, and on our Strand-dev.com forum. I am also always checking my emails to help out. I get all of my emails to my BlackBerry, so I get emails, and respond to them on a quick bases.

We are definitely not the Strand of 3 years ago.

We do miss Rob, that is for sure.


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## icewolf08 (Sep 8, 2009)

Just a quick update. I got my SN103 back today from Strand where Randy personally oversaw the repair. It is back to fully functional, and I appreciate speed at which the case was handled. So Strand has certainly held up their end on this.

Thanks to all who offered to help, I am back in business.


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## rschwimmer (Sep 9, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> Just a quick update. I got my SN103 back today from Strand where Randy personally oversaw the repair. It is back to fully functional, and I appreciate speed at which the case was handled. So Strand has certainly held up their end on this.
> 
> Thanks to all who offered to help, I am back in business.


 

Glad you are up and running. That was a tricky little fix, but she was working great, and thats all that matters.


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## rschwimmer (Sep 9, 2009)

I wanted to let everyone know exactly what i did with this fix, so that if anyone has the same problem, they may be able to fix it on the spot.

When I first got the node from Alex, I initially plugged it in to test it right out of the box. The problem that Alex was having was noticeable right away. The 24V power supply was doing a ramp up, then ramp back down again. This usually shows that the power supply has some capacitors drying up, and going out.

Once I determined that the power supply had in fact gone out, I started my voltage testing. Once I unhooked the "node" from the back box, I disconnected everything associated with the "brains" of the node. In the box remained the power cable going in, a power filter, and the 120VAC to 24VDC power supply. I proceeded to meter the flow coming in, and I got a solid 120VAC (CHECK), I then metered the power coming out of the filter: 120VAC (CHECK), then on to the input to the power supply: 120VAC (CHECK). Then came the DC output: NOT SO GOOD. It was ramping up, and then dropping because those capacitors had reached they're limits, and drop down, then try to allow back up to 24VDC, and won't do it. Then the cable got unplugged, and the fun started.

Since the node has been discontinued for a while, and Alex needed the node back with the quickness, I didn't have the time to try and get a replacement OEM power supply. I also didn't have the time to have the shop to find the bad capacitors, and replace them. So I went with Plan RANDY. I found the smallest power supply that I had here (which I was also able to use because it was in its own enclosed casing, and it wouldn't ground out on the chassis). I had to pop a couple of the original screws out so that the new power supply would mount with some screws in the bottom. Once I got that mounted, I had to add an additional ground for the supply, and wired that in.

Finally I metered all the loads to confirm everything worked as it should, and I got all the right voltage from the input, and the 24VDC that I needed for the output.

I hooked the node back up, and tested it here, and it worked great, and it went out the next morning to Alex.

If anyone needs help from any of our products, please feel free to ask at any time.


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## CypressTD (Oct 28, 2009)

Ok Randy. Thanks for the advice! I am going to attempt this fix for our SN103. We need this thing up and running ASAP. I sure hope this works out. I do have to admit that this seems a little on the "Mickey Mouse" end of the spectrum on the proper fix scale.

I was also wondering why is it that Strand seems content in adandoning those of us with older Strand products? Heck the SN103 is really even that old, is it? Being here in Cypress down the street from Strand and being a life long Strand user has made be oh so aware of Strand's reputation in the area of service and customer service. Why isn't more of an effort made to fix Strand's Achillis' heel? It seems so obvious to all of us but it doesn't seem to ever happen.

Anyways, I dont want to seem like I am ragging on you. I really appreciate your help.
Steve Banneck


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## rschwimmer (Oct 28, 2009)

CypressTD said:


> Ok Randy. Thanks for the advice! I am going to attempt this fix for our SN103. We need this thing up and running ASAP. I sure hope this works out. I do have to admit that this seems a little on the "Mickey Mouse" end of the spectrum on the proper fix scale.
> 
> I was also wondering why is it that Strand seems content in adandoning those of us with older Strand products? Heck the SN103 is really even that old, is it? Being here in Cypress down the street from Strand and being a life long Strand user has made be oh so aware of Strand's reputation in the area of service and customer service. Why isn't more of an effort made to fix Strand's Achillis' heel? It seems so obvious to all of us but it doesn't seem to ever happen.
> 
> ...


 
Steve,

Thank you for all the kind words. When you called, I simply went over your options with you. I told you that the EASIEST and CHEAPEST way for you to repair your node was to replace the power supply, and install the easy fix on your own. I never once shunned you away from sending it in to us. I also recommended reading my post about fixing the Node on Controlbooth.com.

Secondly, Strand's factory is no longer in Cypress. The technical support, customer service, and all manufacturing has been moved to Dallas since the middle of March. 

Lastly, like I went over with you on the phone. Your node is over 8 years old. Compasitors on a 120v AC to 24v DC power supply can dry up. Which is exactly what Alex's node did when he had sent it to me. The power supply is NOT made anymore for that node. So the EASIEST/FASTEST/CHEAPEST way to fix it was to offer you to read the post that you had already read. If you want to send it in to get fixed, please feel free, and I will start the paper work with you. I am more than happy to get your part fixed for you.


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## CypressTD (Jan 15, 2010)

This is an (admitably, very belated) update on the repair of our Strand SN103 Node. The power supply completely died and I found, with help from Randy Schwimmer at Strand Lighting, what I think turned out to be an relatively easy.

At our local electronics store I purchased a Mean Well (Model Number S-25-24) 25w 24v 1.1a power supply that turned out to be a little under 4" x 4". This fit nicely in the node with a little rearranging in the back of the box. The power supply cost under $40. I needed to grind out a couple of the standoffs in the back of the node and drill a couple small holes so I could bolt the new node directly to the back of the box using the two threaded holes on the bottom of the power supply. That and a new ground wire mounted inside the box was about all I needed and the node seems to be happily doing its thing again. The new power supply has an voltage adjustment but it was putting out exactly 24v right out of the box. The electronics store did not have this power supply in stock but they were happy to order it and I had it just a few days later. Here's a link to information about this power supply -

Meanwell Power Supply Products

If you don't have an extra node to use you may want to consider replacing your power supply before it actually dies. Our went out the afternoon of a performance and we were in big trouble. Our node was eight years old when the power supply went out.

Our node has been humming along doing its thing ever since it got the new power supply. Thanks again to Randy Schwimmer at Strand Lighting who talked me through this enough to get me going in the right direction.


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