# Safety Rails on Loading Gallerys



## Footer (Aug 4, 2015)

I have been going back and forth with an engineer about installing a railing on my loading rail gallery on the arbor side. Currently there is just a toe kick angle iron. I'm aiming to get verticals installed with chain that we can run between them and unclip, access the area we need to load, and reclip. How many of you have railings on your loading rail? If you do, is it removable? I have seen it multiple ways, just seeing what is out there. We are 53 linesets on 6" centers so there are no gaps.


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 4, 2015)

I'd say the more important question is do you have fall arrest on your loading rail?

But from what I've used, I definitely like the chain style. It's nice to have that physical boundary outside of loading times, and during loading a permanent rail seems to always somehow get in the way.


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## Footer (Aug 4, 2015)

We will be adding a 20k# lifeline anyway. Just added the fall arrest option.


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## DuckJordan (Aug 4, 2015)

We have a rail at 4~ ish feet and it only gets in the way after 600 lbs

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 4, 2015)

I have for a long time been a proponent of no guard, and the building code and life safety code permit no guard. OSHA is not so permissive.

I don't know if anyone falling on arbor side, especially with ropes every 6 or 7 or 8 inches. I have reports of people having weights dropped on them.

At this time, we recommend chains - three lines - and we spend a lot of time in locating verticals and have the rigging contractor furnish and install the chains. The crap a general contractor comes up with is ridiculous.


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## StradivariusBone (Aug 5, 2015)

We have a railing and we have chain. Also, our loading bridge is about 6" too far away and 12" too high from our arbors so loading can be interesting at times. The railing is finished on the top (which is what can be annoying), but there are two chains that go from post to post. The chain is really wimpy stuff too, but not replaceable without a great deal of effort as it is welded to the post. I'd prefer the chain only between posts, provided it was a bit more robust and combined with the fall arrest we already do.


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## Footer (Aug 5, 2015)

StradivariusBone said:


> We have a railing and we have chain. Also, our loading bridge is about 6" too far away and 12" too high from our arbors so loading can be interesting at times. .



That is the situation we are going to be in. Our old arbors were 8' and 12" center to center, the new ones are 11' and standard 10" center to center. So, we will have a bit more reach across and a 1' reach down.


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## josh88 (Aug 5, 2015)

I've got railing on both sides and no fall arrest. The permanent railing makes things incredibly difficult to actually reach the arbors safely.


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## mikeydoesstuff (Aug 5, 2015)

My last "home theatre" had removable pipes at 4' in segments, I'd prefer chain since I've seen students almost drop them, and you can use a chain to tie lines away as needed temporarily. My "home" prior to that had students climbing off the rail onto other arbors to load - they converted a single to a double purchase but didn't move the load rail to match the new arbors. Horrifying to watch.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 5, 2015)

I loathe removable rails. A university safety officer insisted on them on a lighting catwalk. Intermission gel change resulted in one penetrating a seat. Sure glad that patron had to pee.

There are some interesting folding gates - the paragraph style - that can work. I think chains cost less - but get left unhooked too often.


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## gafftaper (Aug 5, 2015)

I've got the standard height rail, a kick plate at the bottom, and a chain in the middle

I have no lifeline. It's definitely on the list of future safety upgrades.


StradivariusBone said:


> Also, our loading bridge is about 6" too far away and 12" too high from our arbors so loading can be interesting at times.


I have the opposite problem. Arbors with just pipe weight end up about a few inches below the deck of my loading bridge. So I end up sitting on the floor to load. It sucks.


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## StradivariusBone (Aug 5, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> I have the opposite problem. Arbors with just pipe weight end up about a few inches below the deck of my loading bridge. So I end up sitting on the floor to load. It sucks.



Unless I'm mistaken, we have the same problem. At pipe weight I have to load on my knees reaching down to the arbor. On the bigger arbors it's even worse.


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## Colin (Aug 5, 2015)

I answered the poll yes to railings and fall arrest, but there are some big buts... We have a permanent 42" nominal top railing (steel with 2x4 on top) on the arbor side, and the grid does the same job on the stage side. BUT, no mid rail on either side, so not very good once you are on your knees changing weight with nothing to stop you going off the stage side. There are a few gaps between arbors too. 

Our health and safety head dumped some fall arrest gear on us with no lifelines installed and no verification of what building steel has appropriate strength to tie off to. So the best option is choking around grid steel and hoping the 6' rip stitch lanyards are short enough to not crack your skull on arbors before it catches you. So some work to be done there (coming this year I hope). Add a mid rail on stage side, and a lifeline with restraints instead of arrest is my wish.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 5, 2015)

There are a lot of variations on the arrangements, so we may have different images of the conditions. I noted above my recommendations for the arbor side but on the stage side, I like a fairly tall guard with infill. Note that my loading bridges are also wide - never less the 5' and often in the 7' range (so a spiral stair can come up between the main beams - 5'-6 for stair and two beams probably with 8" flanges - so that's 6'10. I say tall because I assume it's designed for a foot of stored counterweights and people will walk on them. If 42" is required, than this should be 54" minimum - 42" above the counterweight walking surface. The first foot should be really solid to prevent weights from sliding off, and I like ex mesh or chain link above that to the 54" rail so if a batten crashes and the weights spray out, they be caught.

The decks - like the decks of the catwalks - are painted bright yellow. They are smooth and solid - no bar grate and no check plate - both tough to kneel on and too many things to fall through grate. Sometimes they are plywood. My favorite is 3" t&g fir decking. Most often smooth steel plate. More and more think about carpet. (Just finishing a theatre with all the catwalks carpeted - really pleasant!)


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## AlexDonkle (Aug 5, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> More and more think about carpet. (Just finishing a theatre with all the catwalks carpeted - really pleasant!)



Assuming you exclude the lighting catwalks from carpet? (Remember a few years ago seeing a carpet start smoking after a source four got set on it while it was still hot, by a person that was certainly not myself...)


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## techieman33 (Aug 5, 2015)

I'm not a fan of the idea of carpet on any catwalk. As AlexDonkle said on a lighting catwalk it could be exposed to hot lighting fixtures, and potentially hot lamps that have just blown, and hot gobos that have just been removed. On a loading bridge weights getting dragged around is going to tear it up creating holes and extra potential trip hazards. And finally it's going to get dirty, and keeping it somewhat clean is going to be a big pain in the backside.


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 5, 2015)

My college theatre, consulted on and built by none other than Jay Glerum himself, had solid, carpeted catwalks all front of house. I loved those catwalks. So solid. So pleasant to work on. Nothing could possibly fall thru. You are following the right footsteps @BillConnerASTC


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 6, 2015)

Well, I do have a photo of a lighting catwalk with 2 x 6 t&g decking and a perfectly round charred hole all the way through - prior to substantial completion of construction. IIRC, a Colortran 213 series which were notoriously hot just in front of the lens. 

But yes - carpet on lighting catwalks is what I meant. I haven't decided on loading bridge but when wide as I design, half is simply work area and half storage, not sure I'm concerned.

I don't know if I'm following Jay but I was insisting on solid and smooth surface lighting catwalks over 30 years ago when Jay was working for Peter Albrecth Corporation.


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 6, 2015)

I guess I'm saying "great minds think alike".


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## mikeydoesstuff (Aug 6, 2015)

I am so down with carpet on lighting cats, but I've also seen some bad choices. Those cats that are really crawlspaces that but up against gaps in the ceiling are where I've seen most of my burn issues. Then again, any space where the crew assigned must be chosen by the "who can fit here" method should be torn to the ground.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 6, 2015)

mikeydoesstuff said:


> I am so down with carpet on lighting cats, but I've also seen some bad choices. Those cats that are really crawlspaces that but up against gaps in the ceiling are where I've seen most of my burn issues. Then again, any space where the crew assigned must be chosen by the "who can fit here" method should be torn to the ground.


Fair enough. I start with wide - at least 42" and up yo 5 or 6' - and minimum 6'8" clear - also required by OSHA. Crawl walks are unaccrptable IMHO.


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## firewater88 (Sep 11, 2015)

I have a solid railing on my loading bridge, but that isn't really my issue. We also have a kick plate, about 12" high on the arbor side. To make things even more interesting, I have 6' and 8' arbors. The 6 footers are level with the bridge and the 8 footers are, well, 2' below the bridge. Now try working around the tall ass kick plate. Oh, and the arbors are a good 12" or so (not really sure on measurement) from the edge. Best bet is now we have the weights stacked on the arbor side and now sit on weights and dangle legs over edge to reach the arbors. The railing is just over head high when in that position. The 8' ones... well.. those are a PITA. I do have a harness that can tie off behind the user. All in all it's not fun. I like the solid bar, just gives an added sense of security when loading.


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