# Tools for a new shop... Package Deals?



## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2006)

Hi there,
I'm working on equiping a new college theater scene shop. I can get package deals for my lighting gear, sound gear, even my sewing equipment, but I haven't found a place that will give me a package deal on my power tools and hand tools for the scene shop. I'm looking at spending $20,000 and I'm not so excited about shoping for sales at Home Depot or Sears.
Has anyone found a company that does package deals on shop equipment? What about purchasing tools on line or directly from the manufacturer some how? Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## Van (Dec 28, 2006)

Do they have a tool peddler up there in Seattle ? They've been real good to me down here but I don't know specifically about "package" deals. 
good luck buy me a new Dewalt pullover mitre saw while your'e at it ok ?


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## Footer (Dec 28, 2006)

Find a Local Medco tools dealer. They usually stop by most shops in my area monthly to try to sell us new blades, batteries, and all that good stuff. They can give you pretty good deals, and are a full supplier of dewault and a few other good companies, however they do not carry delta.


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## soundlight (Dec 28, 2006)

If they carry Makita, you're good...Makita makes the best cordless drills and miter saws out there, IMO. We have the Makita 12" sliding compound miter saw in our shop at Bucknell, and it's much better than any of the Dewalts that I've used in terms of the stops, the adjustments, and the slides.


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## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2006)

soundlight said:


> If they carry Makita, you're good...Makita makes the best cordless drills and miter saws out there, IMO. We have the Makita 12" sliding compound miter saw in our shop at Bucknell, and it's much better than any of the Dewalts that I've used in terms of the stops, the adjustments, and the slides.



Here we go... let the debate begin!!

A friend of mine who is a contractor/carpenter was on vacation in Japan. He walked past a construction site and couldn't pass up the chance to try to speak with his brother hammer swingers. So he started talking with the guys and was asking them what brand of tools they use. "Do you use Makita?" There was a long silence and looks of confusion and then a huge laugh and smile... "No No Maw-key-taw!"


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## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2006)

Van said:


> Do they have a tool peddler up there in Seattle ? They've been real good to me down here but I don't know specifically about "package" deals.
> good luck buy me a new Dewalt pullover mitre saw while you're at it ok ?



I checked out the Tool Peddler website and they only are in Portland, but if the deal is right combined with no sales tax... apparently even though we are part of a state college we still have to pay sales tax. It might be worth it for me to hop the train down there, rent a U-haul, and load up. I'll check it out.


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## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2006)

Footer4321 said:


> Find a Local Medco tools dealer. They usually stop by most shops in my area monthly to try to sell us new blades, batteries, and all that good stuff. They can give you pretty good deals, and are a full supplier of dewault and a few other good companies, however they do not carry delta.



Sadly the closest Medco tools is three states away.


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## Footer (Dec 28, 2006)

Call delta, see who their local dealer is for contractors. Other then that, grizzley makes some decent stuff. I would stay away from Makita.


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## Van (Dec 28, 2006)

gafftaper said:


> Here we go... let the debate begin!!
> 
> A friend of mine who is a contractor/carpenter was on vacation in Japan. He walked past a construction site and couldn't pass up the chance to try to speak with his brother hammer swingers. So he started talking with the guys and was asking them what brand of tools they use. "Do you use Makita?" There was a long silence and looks of confusion and then a huge laugh and smile... "No No Maw-key-taw!"


 
Wow Your'e right a great topic for debate. If you're on the Dewalt side that is. Makita tools are simple inferior. Period. Take one apart sometime. They use plastic gears for Gods sake. I've had issues with one Dewalt in all my years, makitas were in the shop constantly. As far as saws go, The Dewalt Compound Sliding mitre saw is hands down the best out there. The makitass are under powered, belt driven, and made out of pot metal. The dewalt mitre saw in my shop is at least 8 years old and receives almost daily abuse, as we produce and 8 show season. The electric brake on the motor just started acting up. That's that only thing wrong with it. It's never even had new brushes installed. The makitas that I have worked with in several scene shops and on-set for a couple of movies were simple cheap and light. That's about all I can say for the good catagory of makita. 
BTW does anybody know where Dewalt started ? bonus question worth 10 attaboys and three pats on the head.

Sorry bout the highjack, I need to learn to let things like that slide. Change is hard.


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## soundlight (Dec 28, 2006)

Dewalt started somewhere in the middle of PA and they first built radial arm saws or some kind of sliding saw...why do I know all of this random stuff??? I never realize that I know it until someone asks...wow.


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## soundlight (Dec 28, 2006)

Oh, and I have taken apart a Makita that has a GOOD gear system, high quality parts, and the batteries also last longer than the Dewalt models. We have some Dewalt drills at Bucknell, and even though they weren't bought that long ago, three of them have stripped gears now. And it's not like we burn them or overuse them or anything, we run between 3 and 6 shows a semester, so 6-12 per year, and that's the use that they get...and not all of the shows have full sets (dance concerts for instance). But that Makita miter saw is probably the most used tool in the shop, and it works great, has a smooth slide, and has had no problems at all thus far.

As a side note, we have a very, very old (50's or 60's) Dewalt Radial Arm saw, so that may be why I know about Dewalt because I looked it up. It's had a number of rebuilds since it was bought (including one to add a blade brake to it), but it's a beast (in the physical sense and the power sense).

</hijack>

Sorry for the hijacking.


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## Footer (Dec 28, 2006)

soundlight said:


> And it's not like we burn them or overuse them or anything, we run between 3 and 6 shows a semester, so 6-12 per year, a
> Sorry for the hijacking.



Biggest understatement of the year. Keep in mind that most drills that you buy at your local hardware store are not intended for what we do to them. The XRP's and usually the 18's hold up much better then the 12v and 14.4's. The lighter duty guns are intended more for home use, which is bi-weekly at best, not 3-6 hours 5 days a week being dropped, hit, and driving 3" screws. If you really want to get a good gun, get a panasonic. They are amazingly light and have a great chuck. Remember, you get what you pay for.


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## Van (Dec 28, 2006)

A buddy of mine has a Panasonic screw gun It is a Very nice gun, Light , Strong, ergonomic, and good battery life.


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## soundlight (Dec 28, 2006)

We have XRP 14.4's and regular 14.4's. I think that 1 XRP and 2 regulars are in the process of stripping themselves out of our theater, and one of them is lying in parts in our E-shed.


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## gafftaper (Dec 29, 2006)

Ladies and Gentlemen...

In turquoise corner young hot shot Soundlight and his Makita Miter saw.

In the yellow corner crafty veteran Van and his Dewalt XRP.

Ok, I want a good clean fight. No hitting below the belt. 

The prize, I will purchase the brand that wins!!


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## Van (Dec 29, 2006)

gafftaper said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> 
> In turquoise corner young hot shot Soundlight and his Makita Miter saw.
> 
> ...


 

It's not fair ! As I've stated before, " old age and treachery will always vanquish youth and enthusiasm." 
Anyway I refuse to be drawn into a silly argument, That's not my style As I'm sure Everyone here can attest to.  

Besides it's kinda like the truck argument < watch this > See I'm a Ford man, You would catch me dead in a chevy. 

Whatever else you do be sure you get a DELTA Unisaw for your tablesaw and get the extra wide bed with a beismyer <sp> fence. A Delta is like a woman, treat it nice and take care of it when it's young and it will keep you happy for the rest of you life. < God I'm really gonna get it now>


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## soundlight (Dec 29, 2006)

I second the biesemeyer fence. Good stuff. And I have to give the router assignment to Delta, because they make great plunge routers, we have a few in the shop. And Dewalt makes a nice trim router. Don't get me wrong, I'll take Dewalt for a few things, but I like a few of my teal-colored toys.


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## Footer (Dec 29, 2006)

gafftaper said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> In turquoise corner young hot shot Soundlight and his Makita Miter saw.
> In the yellow corner crafty veteran Van and his Dewalt XRP.
> Ok, I want a good clean fight. No hitting below the belt.
> The prize, I will purchase the brand that wins!!


Well, Dewault won this year... http://www.mattkenseth.com/

He is a 1st cousin of one of my friends... She is currently the Production Electrician for the national tour of Rent.


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## Van (Dec 29, 2006)

soundlight said:


> I second the biesemeyer fence. Good stuff. And I have to give the router assignment to Delta, because they make great plunge routers, we have a few in the shop. And Dewalt makes a nice trim router. Don't get me wrong, I'll take Dewalt for a few things, but I like a few of my teal-colored toys.


 
I like Delta for most tablely things eg. Shapers, Planers-Jointers,Planers, bed-sanders etc. On the other hand, I do have a table top belt/disc sander from Delta that is a total piece of crap.

Routers, two words for ya, Porter-Cable, hands dow best plunge router on the market, and the interchangeble base for the "D" handle intermediate model is a great feature. I was watching Norm one day when he cleaned out his router "cabinet" he filled a wheel-barrow to over-flowing with Porter-Cable routers. Made me wanna hug the T.V. 

Trim/laminate routers Makita, Best rim router I ever had. 

Makita also makes an Excellent Hypoid or Worm-drive saw.
The Skill 5150 classic is a great little handy-mans saw and effective in a scenic shop in an educational setting simply because if it walks or gets dropped it's easy and cheap enough to replace. 

Wrenches, screwdrivers, most hand tools, ratchets. Craftsman. Lifetime warranty you break it, you get a new one. and there is a Sears almost anywhere. 
Oh yeah and Starret the ultimate in levels and replacement spirit level fluid. I sent an intern after Spirit level fluid the other day he was gone for hours !


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## soundlight (Dec 29, 2006)

I shouldn't be forgetting brands like porter cable...especially when I grew up reading the Tool Crib catalog as soon as it got to the mailbox. I second the Porter Cable router recommendation.

And yeah, get craftsman tools. I recently had a 30-year-old ratchet wrench from a yard sale break, and I took it in to the Sears store, and they sent me a new one in the mail (they didn't have the right one in stock). Free. I didn't even have to pay shipping. I didn't believe it until I saw it, and it's true!


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## Footer (Dec 30, 2006)

soundlight said:


> I shouldn't be forgetting brands like porter cable...especially when I grew up reading the Tool Crib catalog as soon as it got to the mailbox. I second the Porter Cable router recommendation.
> And yeah, get craftsman tools. I recently had a 30-year-old ratchet wrench from a yard sale break, and I took it in to the Sears store, and they sent me a new one in the mail (they didn't have the right one in stock). Free. I didn't even have to pay shipping. I didn't believe it until I saw it, and it's true!



Be aware with the craftsman thing... they discontinued the tape measure guarantee recently. They will still cover the housing if it brakes, but will not cover the blade. I have yet to take in my 30' that I have kept the same linage going for about the last 8 years (after replacing it 4 times) and it really needs it.


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## gafftaper (Dec 30, 2006)

Well since I started this thread I might as well join the hijack. 

Sorry Soundlight, but I'm not much of a fan of the color teal either. Although I lean more toward Red than Yellow. 

I had a Makita die on me in my high school teaching days when buying a new drill was a huge piece of my budget. Actually I switched over to Black and Decker. I could get 12 volters for about $35 at the factory outlet. The worked pretty good, and when you are dealing with high school students who are likely to drop, loose or steal the equipment, it doesn't make much sense to put out $150+ on one drill. To those of you running a highschool no budget shop find a Black and Decker Factory outlet store at the outlet mall (see their website). Factory refurbished sales bring the price down to something you can afford. They won't last as long as the other brands mentioned here but there aren't many tools that can handle the abuse of high school students. At these prices you can afford to buy some new ones each year. 

Anyway my current inventory wish list is a combination of Porter Cable and Dewalt power tools. For hand tools it's a combination of Craftsman and Husky (also guaranteed for life). All the really big toys will be from Delta. And for the miter saw, a wild card. Hitachi has this really cool 12 inch blade sliding saw. It can do 12 1/4 inch cut and handle a board over 4 inches thick. It's got a laser sight and a digital read out to tell you the precise miter and bevel angles. It won a bunch of awards when they brought it out last year, it's a very cool toy.


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## soundlight (Dec 30, 2006)

Hmmm...I've never used the Black and Decker cordless, but I've heard quite a bit about them. How reliable are they? Do they have enough power behind them? What model/voltage do you have?


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## Van (Dec 30, 2006)

Sorry 'bout the hijack. Answering my own question from Earlier. Did you know that Dewalt got their start as re-built Black and Deckers ? factory returns, surplus etc. were taken in re-furbished then repackaged. Then they wound up getting more popular than the original B&D models.


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## gafftaper (Dec 30, 2006)

soundlight said:


> Hmmm...I've never used the Black and Decker cordless, but I've heard quite a bit about them. How reliable are they? Do they have enough power behind them? What model/voltage do you have?



I would give Black and Deckers a solid recommendation for the high school shop on no budget or for home use by a weekend warrior. They are cheap and they work fine. They don't have as much tork as the better brands and they are not designed to stand up to the wear and tear of a professional shop or even a college shop. But in High School where you probably have one or two broken, dropped, or stolen every year it's a much better way to go. I had a set of 12 volters for my High School shop and they were a bit under powered for handling more than a 2.5" and 3" screws on a fresh charge. But again, I got them for about $35 each factory refurbished from the B&D outlet store. 

My personal home drill is a B & D 18 Volt and I've never had a problem with it. The battery life is a little short when you are driving 3 inchers, but I've never met a screw it can't handle. I got a great deal and only paid $100 for a combo kit with the drill, a 5.5 inch circular saw, a flash light, a "dust buster", and two batteries to run it all. It only get's used 2 or 3 times a month for an hour or so... not 6 hours a day 6 days a week like some shop drills.


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## Wood1000 (Feb 24, 2007)

I would look at Makita,Dewalt,and Porter-cable for tools. Now I would also look at Delta for woodworking machery.


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## taylorjacobs (Feb 25, 2007)

we own dewalt screw guns at our shop they have been thrown dropped of 12 foot ladders...mostly by me...painted on the works and all of them work fantasticly. on that note whats your opinions on running down batteries on cordless devices. i was taught to always rin it all the way down to save batterie life, but my new TD swares it will switch the polarity on the batteries...ive always run down the batteries and this has NEVER happened to me...what do you know on this


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## Radman (Feb 25, 2007)

taylorjacobs said:


> we own dewalt screw guns at our shop they have been thrown dropped of 12 foot ladders...mostly by me...painted on the works and all of them work fantasticly. on that note whats your opinions on running down batteries on cordless devices. i was taught to always rin it all the way down to save batterie life, but my new TD swares it will switch the polarity on the batteries...ive always run down the batteries and this has NEVER happened to me...what do you know on this


I could be wrong, but it sounds completely absurd that the battery would switch polarity ever.


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## Van (Feb 25, 2007)

taylorjacobs said:


> we own dewalt screw guns at our shop they have been thrown dropped of 12 foot ladders...mostly by me...painted on the works and all of them work fantasticly. on that note whats your opinions on running down batteries on cordless devices. i was taught to always rin it all the way down to save batterie life, but my new TD swares it will switch the polarity on the batteries...ive always run down the batteries and this has NEVER happened to me...what do you know on this


 
Well switching polarity on a battery isn't going to happen. However, in the early days of cordless tools is was highly recommended to completely run your batteries prior to charging. Now Unless you are still using 7.2v Makitas in your shop it's not a practice you need to continue. Most modern chargers have cicuitry built in to help determine whether they need to be discharged, and what the voltage cycle should be for charging.


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## fosstech (Feb 25, 2007)

It is true that a battery will reverse its polarity if you run it down _past_ zero volts. This happens when you have cells in series, and one of the cells hits zero before the rest. The others that still have positive voltage will "force" the dead one into the negative. When you go to charge it, the now reverse polarity cell will heat up to the point of melting/leaking/exploding. It probably isn't possible to do with a cordless drill motor, but you can do it if you're using a light bulb or if you short the battery.

Back on the subject, we have a bunch of DeWalt 14.4v XRP drills here at IC, along with a right angle drill and two impact drivers. They were considering getting 18v models last summer when they bought them, but the 18v drills/batteries are a bit too heavy for general shop and load-in use. One of the students here bought a Makita lithium-ion 18v drill. I had the opportunity to use it, and it's really great. The variable speed trigger is better in the upper ranges than the DeWalt XRP's we have. Don't know if it will hold up as well as the DeWalts, but the 18v battery is smaller and lighter than the 12V DeWalts they used to have here.

All but two of our major bench tools are Delta. Both table saws (one is usually in storage), radial arm saw, sanding station, jointer, planer, both drill presses, and the small band saw are Delta. The sliding compound miter is a DeWalt, along with the smaller 10" chop. The big band saw is a Powermatic we got new this year.


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