# Before everyone freaks out, take a look at what is IN water-based Fog juice



## SHARYNF (Sep 1, 2009)

There are three major types of an Anti Freeze
Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The one in your windshield washer is typically Methanol alcohol
The type ion your engine is either of two varieties 
Ethylene Glycol which is poisonous and 
Proplylene Glycol which is non toxic, and used for instance in RV water supply systems usually is sold in red gallon jugs AND guess what the major ingredient in Water based Fog juice is... Propylene Glycol

Another option used to prevent freezing in water, is to add salt (this is typically used in freezing fish, a high salt solution is uses, which can be cooled well below 32 degrees so the fish freezes in a liquid solution.

I understand that we need to be safe and not have people engage in unsafe practices, BUT we do need to think about our answers.

Most times when we run a water based fogger (*martin for instance) we are using about a 20% Proplylene glycol solution in distilled water

Sharyn


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## gafftaper (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks Sharyn! It's so great to have you come back we missed you! 

As you know we are very safety conscious here. We are worried that a young technician (who make up more than half our members) will read a post here, not understand the dire implications, and somehow kill himself or all his friends. Thus we are pretty touchy about closing threads. 

So you burn a mixture based on the propylene glycol RV water tank anti-freeze instead of fog juice? Are there any long term residue problems caused by not using the official stuff? It has to be a water based fogger... any other restrictions? 

As for adding salt to a dry ice fogger doesn't that potentially cause a lot of extra rusting? Do you really gain much fog by keeping the water from freezing? It seems to me that you get you fog because of the temperature difference between the hot water and dry ice. If the water is saturated with salt it will still be VERY cold just not frozen solid. 

Thanks again and welcome back!


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## derekleffew (Sep 1, 2009)

SHARYNF said:


> ...Most times when we run a water based fogger (*martin for instance) we are using about a 20% Proplylene glycol solution in distilled water ...




gafftaper said:


> ...So you burn a mixture based on the propylene glycol RV water tank anti-freeze instead of fog juice? ...


I'm certain Sharyn meant "we, as an industry," not we meaning "herself and I."

No one is saying it's a good idea to use antifreeze in one's dry ice fogger, just that the chemical formation of smoke fluid has a component similar to a type of anti-freeze.

Click the link for the MSDS for Rosco Fog Fluid: http://www.rosco.com/includes/technotes/msds/fog/fog_and_smoke_sim.pdf. See also ANSI E1.23 - 2006 Entertainment Technology - Design and Execution of Theatrical Fog Effects.


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## Van (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm glad SharynF re-opened this topic as I did not get a chance to respond earlier. She is correct in the fact that one "could" potentially run a Propylene Glycol based anti-freeze in a chemical based fogger. An Ethylene Based Anti-freeze would also work, It would most likely kill you rather quickly but it would work real well. Anyone who has ever blown a head gasket can tell you that. < the work real well part not the dead part
> 

The biggest issue (s) is /are Do you trust the kid running the fogger to get the right stuff?? What if he grabs an old bottle of Prestone 'cause it's cheaper than the Sierra? Rosco, Chauvet, Martin, have all spent R&D money perfecting their formulas to acheive a balance of performance and stability, using a formula with more Propylene Glycol in it is much more likely to clog you machine, have a bad burnt smell, and leave a much heavier residue. 

Just as another note of caution: Ethylene Glycol is _*extremely*_ toxic. If you ever Boil-oer the radiator in you car please be sure to clean it up. Cat's, Dog's, babies all love the taste of Ethylene Glycol, it's extremely sweet, it only takes a teaspoon to kill a grown man and it's not a pretty death. Ever see that episode of the X-Files where the guy comes back from the future with the freeze formula? They try to revive one of the Corpse-sicles and he runs a fever till he catches fire? Yeah it's kinda like that, except for the catching on fire... and the comming back from the future part.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 2, 2009)

I was not suggesting that someone MAKE fog juice I was only saying that FOG JUICE is made with Propylene Glycol.

Dry ice is one of those rare solids that goes from solid to gas without going to a liquid state (sublimes at about -78degrees C) A layer of water ice crystals can form around the dry ice but the violent reaction of the CO2 renders this a very porous coating.

So while the theory of reducing the freezing point of the solution in which the dry ice is introduced is attractive in a practical sense it is not needed.


Sharyn


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