# Audience blinder, LED or Conv.?



## HTSL (Mar 20, 2013)

Will LED Audience Blinders give the same effect as "conventional audience Blinders"?

The problem is when we go out to do shows we usually dont have the best power like in arenas so im trying to figure out which way to go and if the LEDs will save me power but still give me the same effect. Thanks


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## Call911 (Mar 20, 2013)

I've actually found LED blinders to be more effective. I think the narrow beam of LEDs helps focus the light better. I've had good luck with LED strips used as blinders. Plus the instant on instant off effect helps also, more of a surprise.


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## alyx92 (Mar 20, 2013)

I'd try and rent a Martin Atomic Strobe. One of those focused at the audience should take care of them!


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## Esoteric (Mar 21, 2013)

We just this past month found a LED blinder that we like. Really nice little unit and the first one we have seen that works like a conventional blinder. Before that I would have said go conventional. Now we go LED (about to put together a touring rig to replace our current one going from 400A 3 phase to 180A single phase).

Mike


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## Pie4Weebl (Mar 21, 2013)

What sized crowds are you looking to fill?


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## jwolfkill (Mar 21, 2013)

Pie4Weebl said:


> What sized crowds are you looking to fill?



Yeah, this question probably determines the answer.

Call me old school, but I'll always be partial to lo-vo ACLs. I was so knocked out the first time I saw a rack of them pointed at the audience.


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## HTSL (Mar 21, 2013)

Pie4Weebl: most of the time 300-400 and sometimes we even go to 1000


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## HTSL (Mar 21, 2013)

Esoteric: Yeah I have been Researching a lot about the differences and I wanna get a word from someone that has used both. Is it a big difference because we use conventional blinders which are powered by a weak dimmer box that is held in the truss, but its not much powerful so we cant really leave it on for long or else the fuze goes out. Now that LED lighting is going BIG we want to switch to led blinders but want a good view of how they punch the crowd. Thanks BTW


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## HTSL (Mar 21, 2013)

See we do more of "Praise Music" concerts so we need more of a punch on the lead chorus and give the crowd a eye opener. I used the Martin Atomic Strobe before but it was just not what our company was looking for and its to harsh on the crowd. THanks


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## bishopthomas (Mar 22, 2013)

Too harsh on the crowd? What do you expect from BLINDERS? As for LED/Conventional, from a blinder perspective they both do the job. It just depends on what you want to accomplish. LED's can change color, so that's a good thing, but it's sometimes hard to achieve that 3200K look of conventionals. I wouldn't stress too much about it, just get what your budget, power availability, and ease of hang/strike will allow.


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## Esoteric (Mar 22, 2013)

HTSL said:


> Esoteric: Yeah I have been Researching a lot about the differences and I wanna get a word from someone that has used both. Is it a big difference because we use conventional blinders which are powered by a weak dimmer box that is held in the truss, but its not much powerful so we cant really leave it on for long or else the fuze goes out. Now that LED lighting is going BIG we want to switch to led blinders but want a good view of how they punch the crowd. Thanks BTW



Look on our website and we have pics of them in action with a house of 400.

We use them for venues up to 1000 or 1500 and they easily have the blast to make an impression.


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## Les (Mar 22, 2013)

The only think I can see hating about LED blinders is the lack of amber drift. I love how a Molefay (or Par can) looks as it's ramping up or left at a glowing state between uses (probably more of a preheat function than anything, but it looks cool). I also like how slowly they fade out. 

LEDs act more like a strobe light and if that's your thing, awesome.


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## DELO72 (Mar 24, 2013)

I'll chime in as an audience member and not as an LD on this one-- 

As an audience member who values their eyesight- Please do NOT choose LEDs for audience blinders unless you plan to HEAVILY frost the beam. LEDs quite frankly SUCK when they hit your eyes. I came close to walking out of a few concerts where the LED movers panned the audience and harshly shown in my eyes. It's distracting, painful, and annoying. That ISN"T what you want the audience to be thinking about or experiencing. You want them focused on the show, and hopefully enjoying the show, not blinking, rubbing their eyes, and cussing out whichever @#$% designer chose to shoot LEDs at them like I was doing the entire time.


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## len (Mar 24, 2013)

I've never been a fan of blinders. But if I have to use them, I'd prefer a conventional source. There are several blinder type effects that aren't standard Mole looking blinders. Depending on your needs/budget/etc. you might find some of them. ADJ or Elation used to sell a mini-brite or something that was pretty decent. I don't know what's out now, but I'll bet you could find something cool.


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## Esoteric (Mar 25, 2013)

DELO72 said:


> I'll chime in as an audience member and not as an LD on this one--
> 
> As an audience member who values their eyesight- Please do NOT choose LEDs for audience blinders unless you plan to HEAVILY frost the beam. LEDs quite frankly SUCK when they hit your eyes. I came close to walking out of a few concerts where the LED movers panned the audience and harshly shown in my eyes. It's distracting, painful, and annoying. That ISN"T what you want the audience to be thinking about or experiencing. You want them focused on the show, and hopefully enjoying the show, not blinking, rubbing their eyes, and cussing out whichever @#$% designer chose to shoot LEDs at them like I was doing the entire time.



Although the sources are certainly different, I can't say that even as an LD I find LED sources any more annoying than arc sources when panned over the crowd. As far as the LED coops we use, there is almost no difference visually between them and a traditional coop.


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## Esoteric (Mar 25, 2013)

Les said:


> The only think I can see hating about LED blinders is the lack of amber drift. I love how a Molefay (or Par can) looks as it's ramping up or left at a glowing state between uses (probably more of a preheat function than anything, but it looks cool). I also like how slowly they fade out.
> 
> LEDs act more like a strobe light and if that's your thing, awesome.



See, our units are color tuned to mimic that warm, soft beam of a traditional blinder and can be faded out VERY slowly.


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## HTSL (Mar 26, 2013)

When i think of a blinder I picture this 


Google Image Result for http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-p-gmiEdWeOg/UDqR_Dv5kKI/AAAAAAAAAiA/U9uoNd1AhHk/s1600/blinder%252Blights.jpg


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## Kelite (Mar 26, 2013)

DELO72 said:


> I'll chime in as an audience member and not as an LD on this one--
> 
> As an audience member who values their eyesight- Please do NOT choose LEDs for audience blinders unless you plan to HEAVILY frost the beam. LEDs quite frankly SUCK when they hit your eyes. I came close to walking out of a few concerts where the LED movers panned the audience and harshly shown in my eyes. It's distracting, painful, and annoying. That ISN"T what you want the audience to be thinking about or experiencing. You want them focused on the show, and hopefully enjoying the show, not blinking, rubbing their eyes, and cussing out whichever @#$% designer chose to shoot LEDs at them like I was doing the entire time.




I'm with Mark, err on the side of frosted/diffused until you get a chance to be a punter at your own concert. You've got nothing to lose-


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 26, 2013)

That ain't a blinder, this is a blinder.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 26, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> That ain't a blinder, this is a blinder.



Haha! I think we're gonna need a bigger distro.


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## Les (Mar 26, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> That ain't a blinder, this is a blinder.



That thing is terrifying! Can you imagine the heat that puts out? I'll bet you can feel it from the ground.


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## JohnD (Mar 27, 2013)

I have posted this link before but here it is again, a version of the history of blinders.
Stage Lighting | The Who’s PA & Foldback | Whotabs
So the first used blinders may have been 10K watt fresnels. Yes, they would have that nice warm afterglow. I feel deprived that I only got to use 5K fresnels. As far as the use of ACL you should see if you can find a copy of "The Scenography of Josef Svoboda", used copies are rather pricey on Amazon but worth a library search.


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## DELO72 (Mar 28, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> That ain't a blinder, this is a blinder.



I see your Blinder, and raise you a 36,000W Moleeno Mole PAR. Type 5791 36,000 Watt Moleeno Molepar

Actually... I'll pull a move taken from Spinal Tap-- and turn it up to 11. 

Announcing the Sunray Dadco G4 Nite Sun. Four 24,000W HMI PARs. Each lamp puts out 2,300,000 lumens. http://www.dadcopowerandlights.com/index.php/g4-nite-sun/


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## bishopthomas (Mar 29, 2013)

Wow, that's some craziness. And now to read up on the S4 mini...


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 31, 2013)

Can I just mention that as someone who occasionally actually goes to concerts, nothing kills the fun like an LD who uses their blinders too much.


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## JohnD (Apr 1, 2013)

And DO NOT use your sharpy(or clone) as a blinder.


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## PeteEngel (Apr 1, 2013)

I agree with Mark for the most part. Until recently, every LED blinder SUCKED! The LEDs that were used peaked in a very painful point in the visible spectrum and frankly it made one LOOK AWAY from the stage as opposed to anything else. Recently I have seen 1 good LED blinder but I don't have the name. I think it was on the Springsteen Tour. Update to come. Anyway, as with any LED fixture you need to do research, and there are really only 1, possibly 2 good LED blinders. The rest are a waste of money and you should stick with the conventionals.


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## Aakburns (Apr 1, 2013)

The old crowd blinders are fun but these days found pointless.

The best thing to do these days in my experience. Option 1, purchase several tri led pars and mount across your trussing pointing out at the crowd. Program as additive or replace the whole scene and go back.

Option 2, if you have a rig with all moving lights, make use of them. White them with no gobo and aim them out. It's super simple, easy to do, and effective.

Here's a picture from the show I did the other night, though this picture does not do justice for how epic and bright this really is when you look at it live.


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## Les (Apr 1, 2013)

Aakburns said:


> The old crowd blinders are fun but these days found pointless.



Debatable. One thing that's hard to get right with LEDs or movers is amber drift when ramping up to or coming out of full output. It's definitely not essential, but I think it's a very nice extra.


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## techieman33 (Apr 1, 2013)

Aakburns said:


> The old crowd blinders are fun but these days found pointless.
> 
> The best thing to do these days in my experience. Option 1, purchase several tri led pars and mount across your trussing pointing out at the crowd. Program as additive or replace the whole scene and go back.
> 
> ...



I disagree, both of your options are to harsh to the eyes of the audience IMHO. Neither option gives that nice warm glow of a blinder. I'm not a fan of blinding the audience in general though. If I need something and can't get blinders I'll just use parcans or fresnels.


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## Aakburns (Apr 1, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I disagree, both of your options are to harsh to the eyes of the audience IMHO. Neither option gives that nice warm glow of a blinder. I'm not a fan of blinding the audience in general though. If I need something and can't get blinders I'll just use parcans or fresnels.




It's not harsh if you know what you are doing. To many show I go to I see LD's fire blinders 98% of the show and it's terrible.

Make it look epic without killing everyone.


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## HTSL (Apr 2, 2013)

I dont use blinders to ......blind... everyone. If you havent been to praise concerts like Hillsong they always have this wash in effect from the top blasting at the crowd while the crowd is singing. It looks good on camera.


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## bishopthomas (Apr 2, 2013)

HTSL said:


> I dont use blinders to ......blind... everyone. If you havent been to praise concerts like Hillsong they always have this wash in effect from the top blasting at the crowd while the crowd is singing. It looks good on camera.



This is exactly what I do too. I prefer blinders to be mounted in the DS truss, as high as possible. I'm not looking to burn any retinas, just illuminate the crowd. I'm going out with a band in June that does a lot of call/response gang vocal type of music. I think it's important to illuminate the crowd for those shouted parts, definitely adds to the music. The point isn't to kill them though. Now, there are some times where I do actually want a blinding effect, like at the end of a song. I like to do this with movers, but a few well placed blinders low to the stage US will do the trick too. Makes a nice silhouette type effect. I work with a band that does a 60's review/Motown show and it's very choreographed (these guys were from a big show on Broadway). There's a song where there's a big finish with them striking a pose and I like to do the blinder thing at that hit. That's once a show.


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## teqniqal (Apr 3, 2013)

jwolfkill said:


> Yeah, this question probably determines the answer.
> 
> Call me old school, but I'll always be partial to lo-vo ACLs. I was so knocked out the first time I saw a rack of them pointed at the audience.



You can now buy PAR 64 LED ACL (Air Craft [Landing] Lights), 60,000 lumens in a 12 degree beam. Standard ACL is good for 200 hours, these are rated to 50,000 hours. That should 'teach-em' a lesson . . . See: Hoffman Engineering Unveils PAR64 LED - Hoffman Engineering

Also see: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27896-need-led-replacement-vns-par64.html


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## HTSL (Apr 22, 2013)

WHat is a popular brand for Conv blinders???


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## djmusic (Jul 31, 2013)

*Stage Blinders*

Has anyone here had any experience with these? I'm looking to buy some and would like some feedback on the LED vs Par versions...........

Thanks!


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## BobHealey (Aug 1, 2013)

*Re: Stage Blinders*

Just to be completely different, I'm using a set of 8 750W 14" halogen scoops (EGG) for a blinder effect in Shrek. Why scoops? It gave me most coverage from the 4 free dimmers on the side torms I had to work with and they were there. I got half of them hung and circuited last night, and the director was surprised at a.) how bright they were and b.) that I planned to hang 4 more.

If I had enough S4 XFL PARs to spare, I'd have tossed them up instead, but all of them are in use for downlight. Not a fresnel in to be found, since ETC didn't make one in 2009. The scoops are technically retired and in the lighting graveyard, but were still lamped, fully functional, and only a decade old based on the Altman stickers on them.


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## techieman33 (Aug 1, 2013)

*Re: Stage Blinders*


BobHealey said:


> Just to be completely different, I'm using a set of 8 750W 14" halogen scoops (EGG) for a blinder effect in Shrek. Why scoops? It gave me most coverage from the 4 free dimmers on the side torms I had to work with and they were there. I got half of them hung and circuited last night, and the director was surprised at a.) how bright they were and b.) that I planned to hang 4 more.
> 
> If I had enough S4 XFL PARs to spare, I'd have tossed them up instead, but all of them are in use for downlight. Not a fresnel in to be found, since ETC didn't make one in 2009. The scoops are technically retired and in the lighting graveyard, but were still lamped, fully functional, and only a decade old based on the Altman stickers on them.



I don't see any reason to retire scoop lights. You just can't beat them for a beautifully smooth wash light.


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## BobHealey (Aug 2, 2013)

*Re: Stage Blinders*


techieman33 said:


> I don't see any reason to retire scoop lights. You just can't beat them for a beautifully smooth wash light.



From what I can tell, they were retired because they had the wrong logo on the side. Except for the R40 strips, everything uses HPL-575X. From the history I've heard, someone made a decision in 2009 to replace all the fixtures that did not use medium screw base lamps with fixtures that used HPL.


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## techieman33 (Aug 2, 2013)

*Re: Stage Blinders*


BobHealey said:


> From what I can tell, they were retired because they had the wrong logo on the side. Except for the R40 strips, everything uses HPL-575X. From the history I've heard, someone made a decision in 2009 to replace all the fixtures that did not use medium screw base lamps with fixtures that used HPL.



Ah, the college I attended was like that. If it didn't have those 3 letters on it then it was automatically inferior and the TD wouldn't allow it to be used in the building. It was sad seeing that room full of fixtures waste away since the university wouldn't let them get rid of them.


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## bishopthomas (Aug 10, 2013)

*Re: Stage Blinders*

Speaking of unconventional blinders... On the tour I just did, one stop was the Hard Rock in Vegas. Blinders were a big part of my show and they didn't have any. My go to is to spin around at least 4 pars on the DS truss. The house LD had the idea to pull the barrels of the 4 US Source 4's. It actually worked really well, much better than Par 64's.


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## Les (Aug 10, 2013)

HTSL said:


> WHat is a popular brand for Conv blinders???



While they are intended for movie and location lighting, Molefays are very common. Of course as you've seen in this thread, you can use most anything depending on the look you're after. I've been known to use par 64's and swiveled-around cyc lights.


techieman33 said:


> Ah, the college I attended was like that. If it didn't have those 3 letters on it then it was automatically inferior and the TD wouldn't allow it to be used in the building. It was sad seeing that room full of fixtures waste away since the university wouldn't let them get rid of them.



Wow, so much for preparing students for the real world.


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## fliggygeek (Aug 11, 2013)

The Pink - Truth About Love tour has a front truss packed with these units for audience blinders, and im convinced that they are actually a good alternative. 
http://www.chromlech.fr/pages/en/products/elidy.php?lang=EN

I was actually sitting on the FOH Truss for Bruce Springsteen during the show, the blinders they had there were clusters of these: 
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/colorado1-tri-ip.html


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## JCarroll (Aug 13, 2013)

At a gig I did just this last weekend I used Chroma Q Color Forces as an eye candy and audience blinder. With the RGBA and Theatrical dimming curve they are an incredibly bright blinder.

I can't find a decent night time photo but at about 30% they provide a nice audience wash and eye candy effect, at 100 you get about the same harsh-ness as a mole. I think this is due to the Color Forces having a wide beam side and a narrow beam side. Wide up close down front and narrow to the back.


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## Ford (Aug 15, 2013)

[De-cloak]
You might want to look at our NEXUS 4x4. They have a large COB, combined with a reflector cup to make the apparent source larger. This takes away the "Harshness" that a lot of people attribute to LED. The effect is actually quite pleasant to look at... UNTIL THEY GET REALLLLLLLY BRIGHT.
These are currently in use on the PitBull tour (as blinders), were on Bruno Mars' shows (and his BillBoard Music award show) as pixel/video products, and were used extensively on The Voice last season, as both blinders, and video effects.

Plus, they do a pretty Kickin' warm white... However, they do not color shift in the dimming curve, unless you program it.
Here are some links to Videos of NEXUS in action: these were both shot with the maximum intensity of the fixtures at about 30-40%.

Bruno Mars Billboard Music Awards 2013 - YouTube


CHAUVET Professional Ignites 2013 Discover Orange Bowl Halftime Show - YouTube
[Re-cloak]


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## bishopthomas (Aug 16, 2013)

Wow, I bet the video guys were hating that Bruno Mars performance!


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