# Sound effects computer



## jtweigandt (Jan 13, 2021)

Currently running Show Cue systems on a very aged windows computer. Some of the younger sound operators come in and avoid it like the plague, 
not because it doesn't work, but because they don't "trust" it. So they do something I trust less.. bring their own laptop and run sound fx from whatever software they have 
from audacity to whatever. 

I don't trust that.. because what happens if they and their laptop are hit by a truck on the way to the theater? 

So looking at getting a mac mini.. and running Qlab. Mac would be purchased used.. I'm thinking 16 gig memory I7 processor and SSD hard drive
Could I be happy with an i5 processor? No doubt it's long past time to upgrade the PC that's there, and I'll admit it's "long in the tooth" Choosing to migrate to qlab 
not so much to do anything new and exotique, as to just get in house equipment and software that they will actually use, so we are positioned better for disaster.


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## dbaxter (Jan 13, 2021)

If the 'trust' is Windows vs Apple driven, I'm not sure why one would not 'trust' a computer used around 78% of the time in business (and costs a heck of a lot less). If you are looking for something easily replaceable and upgradeable, then the argument still leans to Windows. If, however, it's a question of software, then I would offer our Cue Player family of theater software as a possible alternative.


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## jkowtko (Jan 13, 2021)

Either that or update your Windows PC to Win10 and get a nice new monitor, keyboard and mouse for it. The Dell 2319 is under 100 bucks at Best Buy right now. 

Fyi I have a Mac mini 2018 i7 with 1TB SSD and 64GB RAM (Fyi I bought it with 8GB RAM and upgraded separately, saved several hundred dollars that way) ... works great but it is pricey. And I use it for my regular work, I have two 4k monitors AND a 2560 monitor attached to it. If you are going to go the Mac mini route I suggest get the i7 for a couple hundred bucks more or else you will be kicking yourself later on for spending over $1000 and not spending the extra 10-20% to get the faster processor. Not sure if it's true with this model, but on many i5's the hyperthreading was disabled. Do you need the i7? Maybe not for audio only ... but if you do video as well ...

Good luck -- out of curiosity please let us know what cpu/monitor you currently have, and what you end up getting.

Thanks. John


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## CrazyTechie (Jan 13, 2021)

Here's a link to their system requirements page. It's written very well to help you understand how each component affects what you're doing with QLab. https://qlab.app/docs/v4/general/system-recommendations/

With Macs, I would also echo the advice of buying the best hardware that you can afford. The after-purchase RAM upgrade is a good idea as well if the computer you buy supports it. So that's a good thing to look into and consider as well.


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## rsmentele (Jan 13, 2021)

I would choose the computer based on the software you want to run. If you want to use Qlab, get a Mac. If you want to use any of the PC based options, get a PC. I would echo @CrazyTechie suggestion of buying the best you can get now. Programs are only growing larger and more complicated as time goes on, spending a little more now may get you a longer life span on the hardware.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 13, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> Currently running Show Cue systems on a very aged windows computer. Some of the younger sound operators come in and avoid it like the plague,
> not because it doesn't work, but because they don't "trust" it. So they do something I trust less.. bring their own laptop and run sound fx from whatever software they have
> from audacity to whatever.
> 
> ...


Bringing their laptop is one thing, playing back performance music and effects from their phones while simultaneously initiating and answering calls seriously offends my sensibilities. 
Think POSITIVE. 
Test NEGATIVE. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## jtweigandt (Jan 13, 2021)

Current cpu is a machine I donated after pulling from service in my Vet clinic. It's probably pushing 16 years old and been in place at least 8 years now.. Probably a celeron or similar AMD processor.. I'll look when I'm on site. I did max out the ram and put in an SSD a few years ago.. so it runs pretty darned well. I actually like Show Cue Systems, and have used it to run many shows at 2 different theaters. But we tend not to micromanage our sound design/tech volunteers That's why I'm leaning toward Qlab/mac as that's probably the path of least resistance. 

Easier to declare "Thou shalt use this" when its the kit that a whole lot of professional shows run on. If I had my druthers.. I'd freshen up the pc and delcare "thou shalt use this" but that's a tougher slog.


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## almorton (Jan 13, 2021)

We pulled the W10 PC running SCS out and replaced it with an iMac running Qlab after the PC did a system update during a show, despite having been told to do all updates in the morning, not to continue with the update it wanted to do and *not even being connected to the internet* at the time, Shame, as we liked SCS but didn't like the fact we no longer trusted Windows not to ignore us again (I see from various developer fora that random inexplicable restarts are _still_ a problem with various versions of W10).

The iMac is connected to a Soundcraft Si Impact sound desk and networked to an ETC Ion and the whole thing works a treat. We run a projector on the second video feed, and 16 channels of audio. The iMac has coped fine with everything so far.


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## jtweigandt (Jan 13, 2021)

When I think of how many dedicated industrial processes are or used to be controlled by xp and 7 Makes you wonder.. 
I have a digital xray machine that is on 7.. proprietary interface drivers... no way I'm risking the upgrade on that one.


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## dbaxter (Jan 13, 2021)

Things we do with our Windows computers for sound, projection, and lights: 1) Keep current with updates. The big ones come out on the second Tuesday of the month. Smaller ones may come on subsequent Tuesdays. So we check and install Wednesday morning. 2) During a show run, we set the pause on updates to longer than the run. You can go up to 35 days. 
It's sort of like doing your light cue check before a performance, just weekly.


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## ACTSTech (Jan 14, 2021)

Backup EVERYTHING somehow (Dropbox, Google Drive, USB, SD Card, CD, 8-track even) anytime something changes. If someone insists on using their own equipment, write it into the Tech Rider that they MUST leave a physical copy at the venue until the end of the show run. I don't trust any computer to keep my files, I also don't trust myself to keep my files.

When I was filling in at a college, a student INSISTED on recording directly to his USB drive and INSISTED that he backed everything up to the cloud. He was fine until he came running in one day and the Flash Drive wasn't recognized. The cloud wasn't saving the file because he didn't tell his computer to back it up every time I guess. After that, he'd put it on two drives and used the old CD-RW they still had in the studio.


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 14, 2021)

dbaxter said:


> Things we do with our Windows computers for sound, projection, and lights: 1) Keep current with updates. The big ones come out on the second Tuesday of the month. Smaller ones may come on subsequent Tuesdays. So we check and install Wednesday morning. 2) During a show run, we set the pause on updates to longer than the run. You can go up to 35 days.
> It's sort of like doing your light cue check before a performance, just weekly.



Just curious - what's your need for these computers to talk to the internet at all during a tech period/production? If it were me, I'd be unplugging the network entirely. Let them do updates/etc after the run is over. If you have a permanent run, allow internet access for updates only on Mondays (or whatever day you're dark) and then do a full test after dumping the internet connection again. Any resources should be stored locally anyways in the event of internet failures, etc. Food for thought, or for future readers.


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## Moonthink (Jan 14, 2021)

Yeah Aaron, I'm the same way. All the computers I use as production computers (sound/video/etc.) don't even have internet access. I download updates on another computer and transfer it over via thumb drive.

This has 2 simple benefits:
1) no internet = more secure
2) operators not using the computer to surf rather than pay attention (though to be fair -- they could do the same on their phones.)


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## jtweigandt (Jan 14, 2021)

But the takehome is... unless you are diligent and apply every update while the computer is online.. if it has even one in "ready" mode not applied, then eventually that Win10 box will restart itself, without permission, and without warning. Used to be able to completely turn off updates on xp and win7, not so with 10


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 14, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> But the takehome is... unless you are diligent and apply every update while the computer is online.. if it has even one in "ready" mode not applied, then eventually that Win10 box will restart itself, without permission, and without warning. Used to be able to completely turn off updates on xp and win7, not so with 10



If you strand the PC in no-internet land, this won't be an issue. Windows 10 and it's update methods are... difficult to manage. After applying updates, I'd do several reboot cycles a few hours apart to make sure it's "happy" - and then pull the cable again. 
It begs the question, though, if the only reason you're connecting it to the internet is for updates, do you really need the updates?


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## almorton (Jan 14, 2021)

Ours did an update during a show despite having been unplugged from the internet for over a week and told only to apply updates in the morning. It had downloaded an update but hadn't tried to apply it during the allotted time, instead picking 20:30 GMT for some reason to suddenly decide that's it, time for forced update. 

I just don't trust W10 not to bugger about. I use it on my work and home PCs because if it screws up it's just an absolutely massive ball ache, rather than quite literally a show stopper.


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## jtweigandt (Jan 14, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> If you strand the PC in no-internet land, this won't be an issue. Windows 10 and it's update methods are... difficult to manage. After applying updates, I'd do several reboot cycles a few hours apart to make sure it's "happy" - and then pull the cable again.
> It begs the question, though, if the only reason you're connecting it to the internet is for updates, do you really need the updates?


We run in off the internet mode.. but you really need to specifically go to the update window.. offline, and make absolutely sure nothing is downloaded but not applied.. and sometimes you have to look way down the list to find failed updates that will try time and again to apply themselves. if the machine was EVER online.


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 14, 2021)

almorton said:


> Ours did an update during a show despite having been unplugged from the internet for over a week and told only to apply updates in the morning. It had downloaded an update but hadn't tried to apply it during the allotted time, instead picking 20:30 GMT for some reason to suddenly decide that's it, time for forced update.
> 
> I just don't trust W10 not to bugger about. I use it on my work and home PCs because if it screws up it's just an absolutely massive ball ache, rather than quite literally a show stopper.




jtweigandt said:


> We run in off the internet mode.. but you really need to specifically go to the update window.. offline, and make absolutely sure nothing is downloaded but not applied.. and sometimes you have to look way down the list to find failed updates that will try time and again to apply themselves. if the machine was EVER online.



Yeah, I don't trust manually-set Windows Update settings as far as I can throw the computer itself (though with as small as the PCs have gotten these days, might be farther than in the 90s). Still, it requires way too much diligence and I'm still not 100% sure they won't try to do something stupid. If you keep it off the internet forever, though, it shouldn't do anything too stupid. 

Anyone ever use Linux? I've dabbled with some desktop deployments of Linux, but mostly use it for terminal-access only stuff. I presume most of the good software doesn't work on Linux, though?

Curious what the Broadway/on tour folks use, but I suspect it's mostly Mac rigs.


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 14, 2021)

Windows 10 Pro has options to turn off updates by setting a group policy.

I use Unix variants daily. They are bulletproof. One server hasn’t been reboot since 1998. I don’t know of any theatre software that runs there. FWIW, MacOS is a Unix variant. Windows is becoming one.


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 14, 2021)

sk8rsdad said:


> Windows 10 Pro has options to turn off updates by setting a group policy.



Yeah, but I don't image most theatre guys/gals are running their dedicated sound/video rigs on a domain-joined environment where you're harnessing the power of GPO via DCs. GPOs are just global-policies that control already-existing settings within the OS. Furthermore, the only (pertinent) settings I'm aware of via GPO is to prevent automatic updates. That doesn't prevent manual updates or the erroneous restarts Windows 10 loves to do.

I do a little IT (sysadmin) work on the side, so I'm pretty familiar with the function of GPO and the struggles of Windows 10 and the update pains it most certainly has.

edit: spelling.


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## dbaxter (Jan 14, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> Just curious - what's your need for these computers to talk to the internet at all during a tech period/production? If it were me, I'd be unplugging the network entirely. Let them do updates/etc after the run is over. If you have a permanent run, allow internet access for updates only on Mondays (or whatever day you're dark) and then do a full test after dumping the internet connection again. Any resources should be stored locally anyways in the event of internet failures, etc. Food for thought, or for future readers.


No need, other than the local 192.168.x.y network. We do indeed disconnect them and I should have mentioned that. I agree with sk8rsdad's comment about Linux. Apple started off as a derivative - many terminal commands are still the same, I think. And Windows is edging that way. Perhaps it's time to look into it as a development environment...


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 14, 2021)

I'm not sure I agree with the notion that Windows is moving towards a unix/linux based platform, but that's beyond the scope of what we're discussing here. 

An easy way to cut your device from the internet is remove the default gateway in the network properties - it won't know how to reach the internet and never seek updates again.  That ensures you'll still have access to your 192.168.x.y/zz network but no access beyond that.


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 14, 2021)

Get started with the Windows Subsystem for Linux - Training

Learn how to enable WSL, install your favorite Linux distribution, set up an integrated dev environment with Visual Studio Code, and more.


docs.microsoft.com





v2 is due in May. Windows can trace its roots to the Multix project too.


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## jtweigandt (Jan 14, 2021)

OK guys... since you mentioned it.. I run on linux all day at work and on my personal machine at home. I also make use of WINE to run a very proprietary windows program at work under linux.. so in the last hour
I went to the basement, fired up my Linux Mint 20 machine with 3 monitors. Downloaded the last version of Show Cue systems that I was licensed for, and installed the 32 bit version.. IT RUNS!! Was playing SFX flawlessly
cueing, timing, chaining... I futzed with monitor settings to try to do some video and access monitor 2 and 3 and ruined my settings, so will have to re install to get back to the base settings.. but on the sound side single monitor, it appears pretty bulletproof (at least in a half hour of playing). Now the big surprise.. I downloaded Nomad.. installed under wine clicked the desktop icon.. and there it was in all it's glory on 3 monitors.. Gonna bring home some show files to play with. I don't have a puck so can't comment on the final dmx communication.. but was planning on getting one for the windows computer in the booth for board redundancy anyhow at some point... so we may find out eventually. But I was really surprised how clean and native nomad worked right out of the box. Linux mint cinnamon 20 and wine 5.5


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## CrazyTechie (Jan 14, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> Yeah, but I don't image most theatre guys/gals are running their dedicated south/video rigs on a domain-joined environment where you're harnessing the power of GPO via DCs.


 
As long as you are running Win 10 pro or higher you have access to local GPOs. If you run gpedit you can get to them.

I'd still go with pausing updates and disconnecting from the internet for a Windows based system, if we're sticking with that. You do get more control over when Windows does updates if you are running the Education or Enterprise versions. Specifically, the auto updates don't happen. It will only do the updates when you restart your computer and if it has updates queued, but it won't do them for you unless you tell it to where as Pro and Home editions are set to automatically install updates to make sure you are running the latest security patches. 

That said, for OP's use, I'd still go with a Mac and QLab. Much easier to tweak the settings to get the computer to do what you expect it to for a show. And Figure53 has a KB on how to do that, if I recall correctly.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 14, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> Yeah, but I don't image most theatre guys/gals are running their dedicated south/video rigs on a domain-joined environment where you're harnessing the power of GPO via DCs. GPOs are just global-policies that control already-existing settings within the OS. Furthermore, the only (pertinent) settings I'm aware of via GPO is to prevent automatic updates. That doesn't prevent manual updates or the erroneous restarts Windows 10 loves to do.
> 
> I do a little IT (sysadmin) work on the side, so I'm pretty familiar with the function of GPO and the struggles of Windows 10 and the update pains it most certainly has.


 *@Aaron Becker* Quoting you: "dedicated south/video rigs". 
Pardon my ignorance: What is a "dedicated south/video rig"?? 
Think POSITIVE. 
Test NEGATIVE. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 15, 2021)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Aaron Becker* Quoting you: "dedicated south/video rigs".
> Pardon my ignorance: What is a "dedicated south/video rig"??
> Think POSITIVE.
> Test NEGATIVE.
> ...



Just a computer that's dedicated for that purpose (video, audio, control, etc purposes), and probably independent of any building/IT dept controlled systems (mainly thinking of those in educational/corporate settings). Likely funded by the department themselves, not a general or IT fund, and not connected to or managed by said IT folks. Again, thinking almost exclusively educational environments.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 15, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> Just a computer that's dedicated for that purpose (video, audio, control, etc purposes), and probably independent of any building/IT dept controlled systems (mainly thinking of those in educational/corporate settings). Likely funded by the department themselves, not a general or IT fund, and not connected to or managed by said IT folks. Again, thinking almost exclusively educational environments.


 *@Aaron Becker* In what sense: "South"? 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## jtweigandt (Jan 15, 2021)

South/video computer is one with the Drawl processor turned on. It works like autotune
"What light through yonder window breaks"
"Hey y'all up there?"


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## ACTSTech (Jan 15, 2021)

I'm still missing the Instant Replay system the college TV station threw away because it wasn't fully digital. We borrowed it for a lot of shows just for sound effects. No internet, no computer updates, no frills. Thing just worked.


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 15, 2021)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Aaron Becker* In what sense: "South"?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


I guess auto-correct got me way up there. Should've been "sound" - not south. apologies.


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## Mac Hosehead (Jan 17, 2021)

Ok, I fit the example of someone who brings in a sketchy laptop to run sound. The last time I was in such a situation I could not locate the Mac Mini normally used for such occasions. I decided to load Qlab onto my Dell hackintosh laptop. Of course, Qlabs warns against this. The person calling the show gave it a hard look. It ran and sounded fine.


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## TimMc (Jan 17, 2021)

Mac Hosehead said:


> Ok, I fit the example of someone who brings in a sketchy laptop to run sound. The last time I was in such a situation I could not locate the Mac Mini normally used for such occasions. I decided to load Qlab onto my Dell hackintosh laptop. Of course, Qlabs warns against this. The person calling the show gave it a hard look. It ran and sounded fine.


Sometimes you gots to do what you've gots to do...

One of the items in my backpack is a Windows laptop (and some kibbles/bits of interface) with Sports Sounds Pro and Audacity. It will become a backup if my client has a sketchy playback machine. Having taken the blame for failures of "not my stuff", my computer is now a CYA policy. "Why it must be your fault, it couldn't be this 12 year old Core2 Duo with tape residue all over every physical connector..."


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## ACTSTech (Jan 18, 2021)

Mac Hosehead said:


> Ok, I fit the example of someone who brings in a sketchy laptop to run sound. The last time I was in such a situation I could not locate the Mac Mini normally used for such occasions. I decided to load Qlab onto my Dell hackintosh laptop. Of course, Qlabs warns against this. The person calling the show gave it a hard look. It ran and sounded fine.


I'm never against using what you have to use and what you feel comfortable with (also, what's available plays a huge role.) but I'm against not having some sort of backup. Like the time that (this is going back 25 years) our ONLY copy of the sound FX cassette tape (told you) was eaten up by the suddenly dead machine and we had to resort to two people hiding in the pit doing all the sound effects like old foley artists on the radio. They had a good time, but wasn't ideal.


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## Craig Hauber (Jan 18, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> I'm still missing the Instant Replay system the college TV station threw away because it wasn't fully digital. We borrowed it for a lot of shows just for sound effects. No internet, no computer updates, no frills. Thing just worked.


They threw it out?!
Idiots.
They are still between $600 and $1300 used on eBay.
I want a few as my ultimate SFX backup machines -especially if I have to leave a design in the hands of unskilled crew.

At bare minimum they should have properly recycled it 
(and note to all, I personally offer recycling services of this nature!)


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## ACTSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

Craig Hauber said:


> They threw it out?!
> Idiots.
> They are still between $600 and $1300 used on eBay.
> I want a few as my ultimate SFX backup machines -especially if I have to leave a design in the hands of unskilled crew.
> ...


Never underestimate the power of stupidity from someone with a PhD. The Dean dictated that everything that wasn't FULLY DIGITAL be removed from the studio so he could promote that everything in the studio was FULLY DIGITAL, and the guy running the program did just that. And when the other departments complained about the waste (like the music department who had asked for some of the gear), he told them that he didn't want to invest in old technology...

I would have gladly paid for it, but it was long gone. Along with a lot of other stuff I would have bought. They are great machines, I've only ever heard of a few hard drive failures which I suppose would be expected.


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## DrewE (Jan 19, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> Never underestimate the power of stupidity from someone with a PhD. The Dean dictated that everything that wasn't FULLY DIGITAL be removed from the studio so he could promote that everything in the studio was FULLY DIGITAL, and the guy running the program did just that. And when the other departments complained about the waste (like the music department who had asked for some of the gear), he told them that he didn't want to invest in old technology...



So, did they get rid of those nasty analog microphone preamplifiers and speaker drivers and concert grand pianos?

It's a rather odd use of the word "invest" to mean "failing to throw away something that you have that is functional, useful, and paid for." I guess I'm investing in my car and fridge and living room carpeting every day, by such logic.


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## ACTSTech (Jan 19, 2021)

DrewE said:


> So, did they get rid of those nasty analog microphone preamplifiers and speaker drivers and concert grand pianos?
> 
> It's a rather odd use of the word "invest" to mean "failing to throw away something that you have that is functional, useful, and paid for." I guess I'm investing in my car and fridge and living room carpeting every day, by such logic.


This is why I don't like the local sales reps, they look for the sale and not the need. The new sound board (replacing a perfectly good Allen and Heath board) was ALL DIGITAL. The new light console was ALL DIGITAL. Digital converters. Digital receivers. Digital this, digital that. Basically, they needed SOME new equipment, mostly in the the video production end, and got talked into lots of unnecessary things. Again, the architect and sales rep probably lined their pockets and the last time I was there, there was still issues with some of the equipment and the doors are still not sound proofed and the studio isn't exactly climate controlled... But I'm not there any longer.

I think that people tend to get distracted by shiny objects and flashy trendy words. There's some fine USB mics out there, but nothing I'd put up against a studio mic. Doing a podcast or Twitch broadcast, sure, your mic is fine. Doing a reference grade recording of a Steinway D (non-digital!) piano performance? I'll stick with my "old" technology. I "invested" in good microphones myself years ago for when someone needs something specific, and through rental and ease on my brain when I have to go in and do something, they've been well worth the investment. Replacing something that is in great condition just because the faders aren't motorized, or there aren't LEDs on each channel or no touchscreens on the console or whatever, it's shaking a keyring.


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## Aaron Becker (Jan 19, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> This is why I don't like the local sales reps, they look for the sale and not the need. The new sound board (replacing a perfectly good Allen and Heath board) was ALL DIGITAL. The new light console was ALL DIGITAL. Digital converters. Digital receivers. Digital this, digital that. Basically, they needed SOME new equipment, mostly in the the video production end, and got talked into lots of unnecessary things. Again, the architect and sales rep probably lined their pockets and the last time I was there, there was still issues with some of the equipment and the doors are still not sound proofed and the studio isn't exactly climate controlled... But I'm not there any longer.
> 
> I think that people tend to get distracted by shiny objects and flashy trendy words. There's some fine USB mics out there, but nothing I'd put up against a studio mic. Doing a podcast or Twitch broadcast, sure, your mic is fine. Doing a reference grade recording of a Steinway D (non-digital!) piano performance? I'll stick with my "old" technology. I "invested" in good microphones myself years ago for when someone needs something specific, and through rental and ease on my brain when I have to go in and do something, they've been well worth the investment. Replacing something that is in great condition just because the faders aren't motorized, or there aren't LEDs on each channel or no touchscreens on the console or whatever, it's shaking a keyring.



Couldn't agree more on the purchasing your own stuff and either renting it back or trying to make it up on the side, and using it as a peace of mind. I used to do this years ago. It was quality equipment. It's dated, but I could still throw lots of those mics on a stand or drum kit and use them. Fortunately I never went crazy and invest in my own digital mixing board, though. 

On the note of not having flying faders - analog boards might still have their place these days, but it is nice having a digital board, and channel count equal, I'm probably going to opt for the digital board 99% of the time for anything remotely large scale.


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## Crisp image (Jan 20, 2021)

I have a business idea. I am going to make all sorts of labels of different sizes and colours that have just ne word on them. DIGITAL then stick them on everything I find then everyone will think it is all digital and then they would be happy. I remember purchasing some speakers back in the 80's for my walkman (oh I feel so old) that had digital across the front. I am sure they were just 3in cones in there being driven by the output of my walkman which I am sure was not digital. Ahh good times.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 20, 2021)

Crisp image said:


> I have a business idea. I am going to make all sorts of labels of different sizes and colours that have just ne word on them. DIGITAL then stick them on everything I find then everyone will think it is all digital and then they would be happy. I remember purchasing some speakers back in the 80's for my walkman (oh I feel so old) that had digital across the front. I am sure they were just 3in cones in there being driven by the output of my walkman which I am sure was not digital. Ahh good times.


 *@Crisp image* Does giving things the finger make them digital? I believe I've heard my doctor speak of a digital examination. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 20, 2021)

Crisp image said:


> one word on them. DIGITAL then stick them on everything


Your idea might be still trademarked. I used to drive by an office building similar to this one every day on my way home.


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## ACTSTech (Jan 20, 2021)

Aaron Becker said:


> Couldn't agree more on the purchasing your own stuff and either renting it back or trying to make it up on the side, and using it as a peace of mind. I used to do this years ago. It was quality equipment. It's dated, but I could still throw lots of those mics on a stand or drum kit and use them. Fortunately I never went crazy and invest in my own digital mixing board, though.
> 
> On the note of not having flying faders - analog boards might still have their place these days, but it is nice having a digital board, and channel count equal, I'm probably going to opt for the digital board 99% of the time for anything remotely large scale.


People make fun of me for purchasing PZMs, but the number of times someone wanted a grand piano mic'd and were using handheld cardioids made it worth my time not bashing my head off the wall. My 414s have seen ten lifetimes of usage and are still kicking. Even if I never rented them (which a lot of times I just loan them because I'm a sucker), the headaches that were saved by my personal equipment made the purchase worth it.

And I'm not disagreeing with you on the digital boards at all, but in my opinion, if there's four total microphones in the studio, and you've done your pre-show work, you don't need a motorized board. Two anchors reading off a teleprompter can be run without too many bells and whistles. Plus, I've seen people think everything is set and trimmed, then not checked and they went live with some major problems, then tried to blame the board. If you're not lazy, you're listening and adjusting all the time.


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## Techadvisor (Jan 20, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> Currently running Show Cue systems on a very aged windows computer. Some of the younger sound operators come in and avoid it like the plague,
> not because it doesn't work, but because they don't "trust" it. So they do something I trust less.. bring their own laptop and run sound fx from whatever software they have
> from audacity to whatever.
> 
> ...



I am a tech advisor for a school district. I have been running SCS for many years. I run audio trach, fx tracks, still images, and video at the same time. the students in the HS love to use my computer because it is so user friendly. This computer is at least 7 years old and it runs thing great. I would suggest upgrading the PC. I am looking at getting a SCS license for the district and using it in all the schools. Economics is a big factor.


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## ACTSTech (Jan 20, 2021)

Techadvisor said:


> I am a tech advisor for a school district. I have been running SCS for many years. I run audio trach, fx tracks, still images, and video at the same time. the students in the HS love to use my computer because it is so user friendly. This computer is at least 7 years old and it runs thing great. I would suggest upgrading the PC. I am looking at getting a SCS license for the district and using it in all the schools. Economics is a big factor.


Is your computer actively connected to the internet during shows? Do you keep copies of the files offline? Do you ever experience lag with larger files?


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## Techadvisor (Jan 20, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> Is your computer actively connected to the internet during shows? Do you keep copies of the files offline? Do you ever experience lag with larger files?


I turn off the wifi on the computer so it will not connect. I always have a backup on a thumb drive that i can get to quick.. I also make sure all programs are off during a show. When needed i have run a wave file with a video embedded on a cue within that wave and not had problems. My computer is set to not auto update.


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## macsound (Jan 20, 2021)

Chiming in here about Qlab and how great, simple but able to be complex and ubiquitous it is in the world. 

+1 for Macs. As someone who only now uses Windows only when I'm required, I forget how annoying Windows Update is. 

I had an install for a 3 monitor lobby display with a remote server that was internet connected. PC still runs fine but the drivers got botched over the pandemic because there wasn't anyone there every week to keep delaying windows update. Also have MA on PC on a few PCs. Thankfully it's super simple but windows updates have definitely threatened shows before. macOS is getting there with the annoying popups and forced updates but not so bad yet.

My suggestion, without having personally tested it, is a new Mac Mini base model with the M1 chip. $679 education price. Confirmed by figure53 to work fine and this mac is faster and more resilient than all but the very top end Mac Pro. No need for any upgrades, the base model is amazing. 
Also, while laptops are convenient and might be helpful in certain scenarios when desktop monitors are waaaayyyy too big and bright for their intended theatrical purpose, having a monitor attached to your computer means when someone breaks the display, you have to send the whole thing into the shop. Better to keep the $25 craigslist monitor on the desk and have the computer safely in a rack.





QLab 4.6.7 Release Notes

QLab is sound, video, and lighting control for macOS. It’s used by everyone, big and small.



qlab.app











Does QLab work on Apple Silicon Macs?

The complete guide for MacOS Apps Optimized for Apple Silicon Macs and the M1 Processor



isapplesiliconready.com











Mac mini

Mac mini has the Apple M1 chip with 8-core CPU, 8-core GPU, Unified Memory, Neural Engine, full stack machine learning, Wi-Fi 6, and more.


www.apple.com


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## yert33 (Jan 20, 2021)

There are plenty of non-new Mac machines out there fully capable of running QLab. If you're not prevented by policy from buying used equipment it makes sense to me to search for a used MacBook Pro 15 for audio and video work. And if audio only, a used MacBook Pro 13.

(Written on my workhorse Early 2011 MacBook Pro 13 High Sierra that runs QLab4 and is my designer machine. AND IT HAS ACTUAL CONNECTORS, TOO!)


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## jtweigandt (Jan 20, 2021)

macsound said:


> I had an install for a 3 monitor lobby display with a remote server that was internet connected. PC still runs fine but the drivers got botched over the pandemic because there wasn't anyone there every week to keep delaying windows update. Also have MA on PC on a few PCs. Thankfully it's super simple but windows updates have definitely threatened shows before. macOS is getting there with the annoying popups and forced updates but not so bad yet.


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## jtweigandt (Jan 20, 2021)

I have 2 lobby displays that run on "looper" on raspberry pi I also have an info loop in my exam rooms that run on pi's 
Rarely if ever need a reset.. 2 years plus. 10 dollar pi zero motherboard. I use the 3b+ in the exam rooms because I occasionally display
xrays or other info for clients there on the pi as well ... though not for the last 10 months or so... sigh.


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## Crisp image (Jan 21, 2021)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Crisp image* Does giving things the finger make them digital? I believe I've heard my doctor speak of a digital examination.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


Ron TMI for me but you make a good point. Good to see your doctor is in the modern world.


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 21, 2021)

So back to hardware ... Check out the excellent values at discountelectronics.com. ... I've bought from them for 10+ years. Both macs and PCs, built/rebuilt to your specs (SSD, memory, etc) a with 1 yr warranty and your choice of OS ...about 1/3 of new iron cost.


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## JohnD (Jan 21, 2021)

I was checking out the Mac Mini w/ M1 and was surprised to see that the video connector wasn't displayport but HDMI.


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## macsound (Jan 21, 2021)

JohnD said:


> I was checking out the Mac Mini w/ M1 and was surprised to see that the video connector wasn't displayport but HDMI.


But apple has never used displayport... Before they adopted USB C they used mini displayport, but they were combining video with thunderbolt. Same setup now, you can run one display off USB C and a second off HDMI.
Personally I think USB C is a complete mess and about as far from a standard as there is. Who designs a single connector that can be so many different things yet have zero indication from the cable or plug which of those is possible?


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## macsound (Jan 21, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> I have 2 lobby displays that run on "looper" on raspberry pi I also have an info loop in my exam rooms that run on pi's
> Rarely if ever need a reset.. 2 years plus. 10 dollar pi zero motherboard. I use the 3b+ in the exam rooms because I occasionally display
> xrays or other info for clients there on the pi as well ... though not for the last 10 months or so... sigh.


Is looper the application running on the pi?
I have this complex setup for these displays because sometimes they're used for powerpoint or live video and sometimes just a static logo. Monitors Anywhere is the software and it sucks.


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## macsound (Jan 21, 2021)

yert33 said:


> There are plenty of non-new Mac machines out there fully capable of running QLab. If you're not prevented by policy from buying used equipment it makes sense to me to search for a used MacBook Pro 15 for audio and video work. And if audio only, a used MacBook Pro 13.
> 
> (Written on my workhorse Early 2011 MacBook Pro 13 High Sierra that runs QLab4 and is my designer machine. AND IT HAS ACTUAL CONNECTORS, TOO!)


I agree that many many macs will easily run qlab and playback audio. I commonly used 2011 and older MBPs for qlab because they had a CD drive and some acts still bring their content on a CD. I could easily rip it and put it in qlab. I did one event where the guy brought a 5 CD carousel and I'm like no way. Qlab it is.

I was thinking of 2 things when recommending the new M1 mac mini. 
1. Schools usually can't buy used 
2. Sometimes the peace of mind that comes from a new product with a warranty outweighs the savings of something used or built. 

I think also using a used machine that is yours is different from buying a used machine that was someone else's. You don't know about that issue that happens when it gets warm or other quirks you learn about particular products when you live with them for a while. 
I have 3 mac minis, all inherited and the newest one is the worst performing. But taking it's previous life into account, I know it's main purpose was labeling inside a california warehouse, right by the roll up door. 
If you bought this machine on eBay and took the specs at face value, you'd come to hate apple for their garbage products when it was really the device's past that wasn't communicated.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 21, 2021)

macsound said:


> But apple has never used displayport... Before they adopted USB C they used mini displayport, but they were combining video with thunderbolt. Same setup now, you can run one display off USB C and a second off HDMI.
> Personally I think USB C is a complete mess and about as far from a standard as there is. Who designs a single connector that can be so many different things yet have zero indication from the cable or plug which of those is possible?


 [B][USER=24235][B]@macsound[/B][/USER[/B]] Quoting you: *"Who designs a single connector that can be so many different things yet have zero indication from the cable or plug which of those is possible?"*
The designer's father designed the XLR3; his grandfather, the 1/4 TS, his Great grandfather, the RCA and his Great Great grandfather the double banana. An uncle had a hand in porcelain wire nuts then an aunt added wings.
Think POSITIVE.
Test NEGATIVE.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## macsound (Jan 21, 2021)

RonHebbard said:


> [B][USER=24235][B]@macsound[/B][/USER[/B]] Quoting you: *"Who designs a single connector that can be so many different things yet have zero indication from the cable or plug which of those is possible?"*
> The designer's father designed the XLR3; his grandfather, the 1/4 TS, his Great grandfather, the RCA and his Great Great grandfather the double banana. An uncle had a hand in porcelain wire nuts then an aunt added wings.
> Think POSITIVE.
> Test NEGATIVE.
> ...


Have you written a book Ron? I don't read much non-fiction besides manuals but if you wrote it, I'd be glued to every page 
PS. Hows the weather up there now that the US has rid itself of the nincompoop?


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## RonHebbard (Jan 21, 2021)

macsound said:


> Have you written a book Ron? I don't read much non-fiction besides manuals but if you wrote it, I'd be glued to every page
> PS. Hows the weather up there now that the US has rid itself of the nincompoop?


The acrid stench is clearing. I always thought Dump Trump had a nice ring to it. 
In the dictionary beside pompous, arrogant, ignoramus. . . 
*Thinking back to connectors*: RJ45's; multiple wiring standards then Peavey added potentially hazardous voltages when they employed the same connectors for their paging system.
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## jtweigandt (Jan 21, 2021)

macsound said:


> Is looper the application running on the pi?
> I have this complex setup for these displays because sometimes they're used for powerpoint or live video and sometimes just a static logo. Monitors Anywhere is the software and it sucks.


Looper is running on the pi.. I will drill down to see if there's anything like a remote monitor (well I know there is) let me say anything that isn't hard to set up.


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## jtweigandt (Jan 21, 2021)

macsound said:


> Is looper the application running on the pi?
> I have this complex setup for these displays because sometimes they're used for powerpoint or live video and sometimes just a static logo. Monitors Anywhere is the software and it sucks.


ok I dug a little, and should be pretty easy to do with off the shelf software, and a simple command line startup script.

You would run a VNC server to share the screen of the master Realvnc, or tightvnc. set for viewonly so that nobody downstream can hook up a keyboard and do bad stuff. On the slave (could do this with a pi or a pc) autostart the vnc viewer via a command line startup script with the ip and pw of the masterhard coded in. Simple restart of the slave will always seek out the master. All off the shelf and minimal effort to set up. could put in 10 dollar pi boards and re purpose the pc's forsomething more appropriate. Fixed ip address for the master for sure. I think the Pi also needs a fixed ip so that it doesnt fail by trying to start the vnc viewer before the address is obtained.


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