# Reluctance to take cues



## GHSStageManager (Nov 9, 2009)

Good day CB'ers!

We are heading into the tech week for the high school's latest production: Lend Me a Tenor. In the past, the Stage Manager has been rather lax in the formal definition of a stage manager. In other words, her responsibility primarily involved making sure that the stage crew were able to accomplish scenery and props changes in time. This left the already overworked directory to write the lights and sound cues, and sometimes work with the respective operators to make sure their "parts" are learned.

I took over a bit ago (2 years) and set out to change that trend. Unfortunately, both the director and the usual lx and sound operators aren't quite open to the idea of me calling the show -as it seemed to me to be a good way to "tighten up" the tech crew's responsibilities and to take a load off the director.

For LMAT, the director did not buy enough scripts for more than her, the cast, and myself. Which, according to my plan, would have worked out great for the crew. Rather than making them copies of the script, I could give them cue lists and write all the cues down in my book. This show is very cue-light, and I would never consider NOT giving my operators a script for a larger show?

My question is: is what I want to do smart? Am I forcing them to have too much trust in me? What have others done in this situation?

Thank you


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## waynehoskins (Nov 9, 2009)

Couple of questions.

Student, parent, faculty/staff, or freelance?

What do the designers think about it?


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## Diarmuid (Nov 9, 2009)

Well I certainly know where you're coming from! A couple of years back, before I switched to doing mainly lighting, every time a show was coming up, this became a problem. Unfortunately it's not a problem that can necessarily be easily solved.
People are of course creatures of habit, and especially in theatres if something has worked for the last x number of shows, people want to stick with that in case a new way of doing things messes everything up. A year/about 5 shows after I'd been given the role of SM was I first allowed to cue the show, this was even with the support of my HoD and TD. Looking back now I'm really glad I've cued most of the big shows in the last couple of years, when actors mess up their lines in the middle of a big sequence involving pyros, you need to have a single person able to make a call that's firstly safe and secondly protects the artistic integrity of the show as much as possible. Having 4 separate operators discussing this is not fast, safe or efficient, having one SM (or DSM) saying "Can we skip to LX 24.5 instead of 22.5 please" is however all of those things. The same goes for when actors decide to go on and perform the wrong scene (well it is highschool), one person needs to be able to make a quick call about whether it's best to go back to the scene before, or just carry on, again the SM normally knows the show better than any of the operators (some of whom have only seen the show once before) and so is the best person to quickly make this call.

So to answer your first question in a more concise way, yes, I think what you want to do is smart and makes sense, however only if you are trying to do this to make it more professional and efficient, some Stage Managers just want to do this to boss everyone around and that isn't going to work out in the long run.

As to whether you are asking the others to put too much trust in you depends on you. If there aren't going to be many cues, then it should be a fairly easy show to start on, but have you had any experience cueing before? Whilst many stage managers have their own idiosyncrasies, there are generally accepted standard ways to mark up a script and how to call a show, making sure that you are up to date with these will not only help to impress your operators, but it will also make it easier to reliably call the show. The only other thing that it might be worth thinking about, is whether or not you've got anyone who can stand in for you if for any reason you can't make the show, whilst I've never not been able to get to a show, it's been a close call a couple of times, and that's another reason that you should make sure the copy of the script you are going to cue from is as tidy as possible. 

The only other thing to bear in mind is that the operators might feel like you're trying to take their job. If they don't have a script to follow, a lot of the time, all the operators then have to do is press go (I know that's an over-simplification, but it's something several operators have said to me when I started cueing them). There isn't an easy way to deal with this, other than to explain that you're not, it just allows the operators to be able to spend more time checking the lights, or mics etc. are all functioning properly.

The only other thing I'd say is, in my experience, it's not uncommon for operators not to have a script for shows, so even if it was a longer show a script wouldn't always be necessary.

Whatever happens, hope you have a good show!


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## GHSStageManager (Nov 9, 2009)

High school show with student actors, technicians, stage managers - but with adult director

Thank you for the great advice about my situation - I don't mean it as a controlling gesture. You are absolutely right about it being important as it places all the show's artistic decisions with the person who knows the show like his/her back hand. That person is the stage manager who has been present for the 8-week rehearsal period and not the operator who has been around for 2 weeks.


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## waynehoskins (Nov 9, 2009)

GHSStageManager said:


> it places all the show's artistic decisions with the person who knows the show like his/her back hand. That person is the stage manager who has been present for the 8-week rehearsal period and not the operator who has been around for 2 weeks.



I presume you're a student.

A point of order, if I may. The stage manager is not an artistic position. The artistic decisions are the ultimate responsibility of the stage director (in conjunction with the artistic director). The director most always works with a team of designers who each have an area of specialty: the lighting designer is responsible for creating lighting that supports the director's overall vision, using his own design style in that; and so on for the other designers.

Speaking as a freelance LD who lights high school theatre, the student stage manager's job as it concerns my lights is to call the cues when I meant for them to be called, and to leave my lights and cues and times alone.

Now, once final dress has completed, from my perspective the show is locked, and it's up to the board op and stage manager to keep it running right. The stage manager does have some discretion once it's in performance, but not artistic decisions.


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## seanandkate (Nov 9, 2009)

Like Itell my students: A stage manager's job is to record artistic decisions, not make them. Just as a plane can only have one pilot, ashow should have only one person who is calling it, for both artistic _and _safety considerations. As you stated GHS, the stage manager knows the most about the show, and is therefore best positioned to know how to solve problems on the fly.


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## icewolf08 (Nov 9, 2009)

What I think we have failed to make a real point of is the fact that in reality it is the stage manager's job during the run of a show to call all the cues. Your idea, GHSStageManager is not new or different, in fact it is the way that the industry generally operates. The stage manager SHOULD have all the cues written down in his book along with standbys for all those cues. Then the SM should give standbys and GOs to make the show go.

As you wanted to, most operators or stage crew are given a run sheet that lists every cue and what they are supposed to do for each. You might not need to give your LX OP and Sound Playback Op a cue list as they usually have a console or computer that has a cue list. Generally if you have a live mix sound engineer they won't be on comms because they need to hear the show, so usually they just want their own script with cues that they can follow for themselves.

As people have mentioned, it is often hard to change conventions, we have some of the most stubborn people in our industry. However, what you propose is not only a very efficient way to do things, it is the way that things are done "in the real world."


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## Footer (Nov 9, 2009)

I used to be TD at a performing arts magnet school. I fought this tooth and nail with my students. Everyone wanted to have their own script and follow along. This type of setup simply does not work... heres why....

You need one person to be the coordinator for everything that is going on. You can not have a single person question what should be coming next, its the SM's job to decide. If a scene change is running slow... the SM will know and hold the cue. If whatever else goes wrong, one person will deal with it and be able to work around it. In the caotic world of backstage, a group trying to coordinate a decision can be a real issue. 

One other reason for the one script rule. If a cue is late it should be because the SM called it late. If its early, its because the SM called it early. I tell every board op I train, its their job to hit the button when they are told. If the cue is late, don't let it be your fault. Whatever the SM calls is what goes. Period. Whatever you are doing, that is the rule. A light op should not even have to look at the stage. A person on the deck should not wait for the lights to go out, if their cue light goes... they go. It is this trust that the SM has to have. If there is any question that the person will hold because they don't feel its right, it puts the whole production at risk. Anything late or early, it should be the SM's fault, not the crew member. Its the crews job to make sure of that. Its the SM's job to make sure they are calling what they need to be called. I don't want my rail operators to be buried in a script and be late for their cue. I want them to go when they are told to. 

Watching a script and trying to do something physical does not go together well. Added to that, your not coordinating with other departments like you should be. Take the scripts away.


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## tjrobb (Nov 16, 2009)

For my current show (Annie) I simply can't run a follow spot and watch a script. I need my SM to call my cues.

As for a light board operator, freeing themselves from reading a script lets them watch the show so if a light fails (or there is some other mishap) they know about it and can fix it / inform the SM. Also, in general (as I think was stated prior) I know I can be distracted with a script and accidentally miss a cue or GO. Not a good thing, ever.


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## TimmyP1955 (Nov 22, 2009)

As a sound op, especially if I'm mixing manually instead of recalling console scenes, the last thing I want to do is try to follow along with a script whilst pushing 19 faders this way and that - there's too much visual bouncing back and forth, and I WILL lose my place (until you wear progressive trifocals, you can't know what a nuisance this is). I want someone calling cues.


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## kiwitechgirl (Nov 22, 2009)

TimmyP1955 said:


> As a sound op, especially if I'm mixing manually instead of recalling console scenes, the last thing I want to do is try to follow along with a script whilst pushing 19 faders this way and that - there's too much visual bouncing back and forth, and I WILL lose my place (until you wear progressive trifocals, you can't know what a nuisance this is). I want someone calling cues.



Yes, but if you're on comms, how on earth can you hear what you're mixing?! While we now run a Yamaha LS9, which has made life much easier, my sound operator ran 22 radio mics on _The Producers_ on a very old desk with no recall scenes while following his own script because if he was listening to me call cues, there was no way he could hear well enough to get a decent mix - plus I had about 250 LX cues and 50 backing track cues to call, and so he would have had to have concentrated on what he was hearing so as to pick his cues out of the mixture.


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## hyperbuddha (Nov 22, 2009)

As a sound designer/engineer I personally hate it when people cue me let alone talk to me during a show. To the point where the last time the tech director came up to me to yell at me for missing a mic cue I told her to back off and was heard by the director.


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## acoppsa (Nov 22, 2009)

Could you please let us know how it turns/turned out GHSStageManager?
Next year I'm hoping to do exactly what you have talked about for your cuurent production and would like to know how it went.
Thanks,
Aidan


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## Anonymous067 (Nov 27, 2009)

OOhh if only I had a dollar for every time I had this argument with my stage manager...

See, my wonderful stage manager has a slightly combined view of these two methods everybody seems to be tossing around.

She wanted EVERYBODY on headset, EVERYBODY on script, yet SHE wants to call every cue.

As a sound person, I cannot mix with comms on! It simply doesn't work. If I have a problem with a mic and need backstage to look at it, that's when I throw my headset on. Also, I never have the person mixing also running sound cues. The person running sound cues stays on headset, and the person mixing stays off headset at all times, unless of a problem. Our stage manager, having never run sound, really doesn't know what it's like to try to mix the microphones with one ear covered...

The entire script issue is also a constant argument. On sound, I usually don't require any of my people to follow a script, as long as they're paying attnetion and on headset, it doesn't bother me. When mixing lavs, I find it much easier to memorize the enterances and exits rather than follow a script, but then again, I never mix the lavs...I'm always too busy fixing them.

I guess my advice to GHS would be don't get on your sound peoples backs too much, especially about headset and script. They'll be happy if you give them their cues yet don't breathe down their necks. Your role as stage manager is just as important as your sound, light, backstage, and dress people.


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## Anonymous067 (Nov 27, 2009)

GHSStageManager said:


> High school show with student actors, technicians, stage managers - but with adult director
> 
> Thank you for the great advice about my situation - I don't mean it as a controlling gesture. You are absolutely right about it being important as it places all the show's artistic decisions with the person who knows the show like his/her back hand. That person is the stage manager who has been present for the 8-week rehearsal period and not the operator who has been around for 2 weeks.



I would aruge that I do as much or more as a sound person in the 3 weeks I am around for the musical than my stage manager does in the 12 week rehearsal period for it.

Don't let this SM thing go to your head and start bossing everybody around...
best of luck.


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## Tex (Nov 27, 2009)

Blah067 said:


> I would aruge that I do as much or more as a sound person in the 3 weeks I am around for the musical than my stage manager does in the 12 week rehearsal period for it.


If this is true, your stage manager isn't doing it right.


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## kiwitechgirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Blah067 said:


> I would aruge that I do as much or more as a sound person in the 3 weeks I am around for the musical than my stage manager does in the 12 week rehearsal period for it.
> 
> Don't let this SM thing go to your head and start bossing everybody around...
> best of luck.



Your SM isn't very good at their job then - particularly if they're bossing people around. My cast know that if I ask them to do something, I have a very good reason for it, it's not just a power trip. 

I have an absolutely wonderful sound operator who is thorough, painstaking and very very good at his job, but I'm in the theatre 90 minutes before he is and usually leave no less than half an hour after he does. I couldn't (and wouldn't want to) do his job, and he has been heard to say that he couldn't (and wouldn't want to!) do mine, but in terms of hours worked I certainly do more. Each job is important - theatre being a collaborative art form - and I don't want to get into arguments about who does more, but I certainly spend more time on a show than he does.


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## mstaylor (Nov 28, 2009)

Every job is important in theatre, no doubt, but there is a heirachy and the SM trumps the techs in authority. However, the techs are the ones that are experts at their jobs and should be listened to when there is a dispute. I completely agree that the sound guy that is mixing HAS to be off headsets. The guy running the effects and wirelesses should be on headsets taking cues. If a cue gets missed during the show IS NOT the time to discuss it, that's what notes after the show is all about. If we have a problem during the show we keep both a headset and a handset at the board. Many times it is easier to talk on a handset and still be able to hear some. Thre are times something will go south backstage that will require a face to face with the board op to solve the problem. 
There are all types of personalities in theatre but an overcontrolling person in any position of authority is a problem.


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## GHSStageManager (Nov 29, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> Every job is important in theatre, no doubt, but there is a heirachy and the SM trumps the techs in authority. However, the techs are the ones that are experts at their jobs and should be listened to when there is a dispute. I completely agree that the sound guy that is mixing HAS to be off headsets. The guy running the effects and wirelesses should be on headsets taking cues. If a cue gets missed during the show IS NOT the time to discuss it, that's what notes after the show is all about. If we have a problem during the show we keep both a headset and a handset at the board. Many times it is easier to talk on a handset and still be able to hear some. Thre are times something will go south backstage that will require a face to face with the board op to solve the problem.
> There are all types of personalities in theatre but an overcontrolling person in any position of authority is a problem.



I'm afraid I was misunderstood in my original post. For the show that I was referring to, no mixing of microphones needed to take place. For the upcoming show, Beauty and the Beast, we will have two sound ops: one running effects (will be on comms) and one who is mixing the lav mics (will not). I will most likely give the guy mixing the lav mikes a script. Mostly for the purposes of this thread, I was referring to sound effects and lighting. 

Also, regarding the comment that you do more than your stage manager, blah067 - you need to tell him/her to wake up. I may do more as a stage manager in a single day of tech week than one (not all) of my sound ops will do during their involvement with the show. 

Thank you all the advice!


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## waynehoskins (Nov 29, 2009)

Where things get messy is when, as often happens in high school, the designer is also the board operator. In that regard, the designer trumps the stage manager in design issues.

Stage manager's job:
- document the director's blocking
- document the designers' cue placement
- call the cues when the designer instructed they be called.

Theatre is a collaborative effort. We are all important. Just as it's not my job as LD to question choreography, it's not the stage manager's job to decide or question sound cues. Merely to write down when they happen and what they do, and to call them at the appropriate time.


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## themuzicman (Nov 29, 2009)

GHSStageManager said:


> Good day CB'ers!
> Rather than making them copies of the script, I could give them cue lists and write all the cues down in my book. This show is very cue-light, and I would never consider NOT giving my operators a script for a larger show?



As someone who has board opped both professionally and academically, I am rarely ever given a script. In the 30+ shows I have worked in the last 2 years, I have used a script twice. So if the board ops are serious, they need to understand that rarely will they ever have a script and they need to be willing to go along with the SM and let everyone do their proper duties.

--The 2 times I have used a script where one play where I had several visual cues that the SM let me take myself as she had several fly cues at the same time and by taking out the intermediary, we could properly nail timing off the visual, and the second time was when I was live mixing a show and had several things that weren't programmed into scene memory.


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## mstaylor (Nov 29, 2009)

GHSStageManager said:


> I'm afraid I was misunderstood in my original post. For the show that I was referring to, no mixing of microphones needed to take place. For the upcoming show, Beauty and the Beast, we will have two sound ops: one running effects (will be on comms) and one who is mixing the lav mics (will not). I will most likely give the guy mixing the lav mikes a script. Mostly for the purposes of this thread, I was referring to sound effects and lighting.
> 
> Also, regarding the comment that you do more than your stage manager, blah067 - you need to tell him/her to wake up. I may do more as a stage manager in a single day of tech week than one (not all) of my sound ops will do during their involvement with the show.
> 
> Thank you all the advice!


My post was in response to Blah046 not to the original post.


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