# Touring a show



## Image of the Mind Studios (May 4, 2007)

I'm in the process of designing a program for theatrical development within the academic arena. This involves ground up producing which blends professional, educational and not-for-profit methodology toward a common goal, leading to a touring scenerio, amoung and between numerous academic organizations, colleges & universities, spiralling into a professional union production. Has anyone every engaged in this type of activity before and can offer advise, or would like to join in an effort to create a network in this regard? AG


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## 6ftstudios (May 4, 2007)

Hey Arthur,

I may be able to give you some advice or even join in, but I need more info. What do you want to do? what is the final goal? what is the professional aspect? what does the educational aspect involve? if you can share more examples about what you're thinking it'll help me help you. 

PM me if you want.


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## Footer (May 4, 2007)

Yep, a bit more into what you actually want to do besides what feels like a graduate thesis statement would be appreciated. What you said sounds a bit too academic for us to actually figure out what you are trying to do. Also, who are you doing this with, is it totally unrealized, whats the complete goal?


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## Image of the Mind Studios (May 31, 2007)

*Hi Guys,* Sorry, I don't get onto this site as often as might need be... Yes, the concept (and that's what it is at this stage, no pun intended) goes like this: I have a show that I'm working to produce... now, what I'm working toward doing is to build a management team for this show. Vested individuals, who might become general partners (when the Limited Partnership is formed). So the Academic aspect of it is to create a parallel aprenticeship program in (Bryn Athyn) College, in Pennsylvania. This comes about because the college has a usable theatre, but I think a four wall is insufficient to justify the effort (it's only 480+/- seats and it's a limited run scenario). So why not use the production of this show as an educational tool as well as a professional endeavor? It's become clear that there is not a large enough student base to implement a program like this with Bryn Athyn College alone, so... the idea needs to include surrounding (or a network of) colleges as well. Just as the professional goal is to put the show up (and in fact, to tour it around the world), the academic program is intended to develop a circuit of college performing arts departments, whereby the participating organizations, contribute both students & resources toward the goal of mentoring the apprentices to teach production management and use the participating college facilities as the touring objective. A professional endeavor, implemented and managed by students (in a somewhat more forgiving creative environment) The larger goal is to develop networking abilities and to establish a modus operendi for producing new works and taking them the full nine yards. The advantage of this process is that the professional team who is mentoring the student team will be working to develop the business of producing theatre. Of course, I'm using my show as a test case (why not since I'm designing the concept) Ultimately, if this show is to go around the world, then the students who are working on the academic effort will be functioning in parallel with the professionals, but... they will also be trained to move into that job once they exit school. With this plan, producing "new works" is from the ground up, not in a sheltered environment where the budget is provided by the school. The students and their mentors must raise the needed capital and provide sufficient funds to pay all staff members, just as they would need to do in a professional environment. This will ultimately mean that they will have to learn about ancillary markets and how to exploit them to the benefit of the production. Marketing and all the rest is part of this plan. Since the talents required are quite broad, this effort would include many departments within the collegiate environment. The idea is to train professionals, not simply get kids excited about the theatre and then throw them out into the business without thorough training. I've seen that happen too many times. It happened to me. Anyway. That's the idea. So far I'm getting good responce, but it's something that will take time. I appreciate your thoughts. *AG*


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## avkid (May 31, 2007)

Lose the font, it's annoying.


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## Footer (May 31, 2007)

avkid said:


> Lose the font, it's annoying.


its freedom of expression.


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## avkid (May 31, 2007)

Footer4321 said:


> its freedom of expression.


If you want a response having a readable question is necessary.


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## avkid (May 31, 2007)

Image of the Mind Studios said:


> Hi Guys, Sorry, I don't get onto this site as often as might need be... Yes, the concept (and that's what it is at this stage, no pun intended) goes like this: I have a show that I'm working to produce... now, what I'm working toward doing is to build a management team for this show. Vested individuals, who might become general partners (when the Limited Partnership is formed). So the Academic aspect of it is to create a parallel aprenticeship program in (Bryn Athyn) College, in Pennsylvania. This comes about because the college has a usable theatre, but I think a four wall is insufficient to justify the effort (it's only 480+/- seats and it's a limited run scenario). So why not use the production of this show as an educational tool as well as a professional endeavor? It's become clear that there is not a large enough student base to implement a program like this with Bryn Athyn College alone, so... the idea needs to include surrounding (or a network of) colleges as well. Just as the professional goal is to put the show up (and in fact, to tour it around the world), the academic program is intended to develop a circuit of college performing arts departments, whereby the participating organizations, contribute both students & resources toward the goal of mentoring the apprentices to teach production management and use the participating college facilities as the touring objective. A professional endeavor, implemented and managed by students (in a somewhat more forgiving creative environment) The larger goal is to develop networking abilities and to establish a modus operendi for producing new works and taking them the full nine yards. The advantage of this process is that the professional team who is mentoring the student team will be working to develop the business of producing theatre. Of course, I'm using my show as a test case (why not since I'm designing the concept) Ultimately, if this show is to go around the world, then the students who are working on the academic effort will be functioning in parallel with the professionals, but... they will also be trained to move into that job once they exit school. With this plan, producing "new works" is from the ground up, not in a sheltered environment where the budget is provided by the school. The students and their mentors must raise the needed capital and provide sufficient funds to pay all staff members, just as they would need to do in a professional environment. This will ultimately mean that they will have to learn about ancillary markets and how to exploit them to the benefit of the production. Marketing and all the rest is part of this plan. Since the talents required are quite broad, this effort would include many departments within the collegiate environment. The idea is to train professionals, not simply get kids excited about the theatre and then throw them out into the business without thorough training. I've seen that happen too many times. It happened to me. Anyway. That's the idea. So far I'm getting good responce, but it's something that will take time. I appreciate your thoughts.


There, that does it.


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## stantonsound (May 31, 2007)

Wow....my A.D.D. really started kicking in about half way through that. Can someone summarize that into 25 words or less? It seems like this guy just wants his show seen all over the world. I may have missed something, though.


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## Footer (May 31, 2007)

Really, from the sounds of it, it is a ploy to get a college to produce his show, use their space, wright it off as an "educational" endevor, and run with the show. Having students help pay for a show and have the univerity pay for the show so that they are finicialy liable for it. I really can not see how this is going to benefit the theatre at the school. It will if you get some top notch people to do it with you, but bringing together educational theatre and corporate theatre is fine, but you usually have to pick which side of the fence you are going to lean towards most. If you are going educational, you will most likely lose money. If you are going corporate, you won't be teaching what you need to teach. Please, please, please tell us what you ACTUALLY want to do. Lay off the thesis statement and lay out "the students will do ...." "I will do this..."... it sounds like you have written 900 proposals for this, and you are still using that langage. Also, what do you want to hear from us?

Also, take a look at the website. This person has more irons on the stove then anyone I have ever seen. Also..... hippie alert....


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## stantonsound (Jun 4, 2007)

wow, we are really mean!


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## Footer (Jun 4, 2007)

stantonsound said:


> wow, we are really mean!



not mean, just truthful. Really I would like to help this guy, but from the sounds of it, what he wants to do is way beyond the realm of what the forum can help with. If he needed help gettting gear, lighting something, etc... more then happy to help, putting together a business model, not my cup of tea. There is a reason that I am hired by a producer, not the producer.


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## stantonsound (Jun 4, 2007)

Footer?...Not mean? You called the poor guy a hippie! : )

I completely understand what you are saying. It could be a good idea. I would have loved to leave college with tour experience as both tech and management. A reality check might be in order, as it would take a few people working full time to get something like that up and running. There would have to be a god relationship between the first few schools that attempted to do something like that, and a nice budget. It is interesting and should be possible.


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## Footer (Jun 4, 2007)

stantonsound said:


> Footer?...Not mean? You called the poor guy a hippie! : )
> I completely understand what you are saying. It could be a good idea. I would have loved to leave college with tour experience as both tech and management. A reality check might be in order, as it would take a few people working full time to get something like that up and running. There would have to be a god relationship between the first few schools that attempted to do something like that, and a nice budget. It is interesting and should be possible.



I think it would be totally possible to do, I just don't think it can be done from the outside or without the backing of a large regional company. If this was done by a professor or a group at a college and started from the inside, it would probably work. Its hard to break into academia, most college theatre dept. don't get along well by themselves, let alone many colleges together.


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 5, 2007)

OK, Thank you for your thoughts on this. Yes, it's true that my objective is to take the show around the world, but no I do not want a college to foot the bill. In fact, that's the point. Developing a mentor/apprenticeship program that teaches students (and the other participants) How to foot the bill and to learn about what is required to implement the goal. The process of doing such a thing is a large objective that requires a well thought out plan. To do this is an educational process and by using this play as a test case those of us with the same vision can develop a network, system, and methodology for bridging the gap between the professional, community, and the academic arenas. I've had my fill with "free" theatre, but there is a significant number of talented people who have come to conclude that this is necessary for the survival of the art. Producers so often take advantage of that to the detriment of the young artists who are trying to enter the field. This only brings about creative and economic frustration. My goal is to build a network of talented individuals, students and professionals who see the theatre as a business, not as a lark and who are willing to do what is necessary to make that a reality. The play, "Nunc Licet", which I am using as part of this academic proposal, is applied more for the fact that, such a network needs to have something to use as a tool to move forward. *** I tend to offer my thoughts in longer paragraphs than some of you seem to be comfortable with, so I'm sorry for that, but I have a limited amount of time to spend at the computer. I feel that it is best to be thorough in putting forth your thoughts on a subject, possibly this forum is not the right place for that. Also I didn't think the font was a problem, sorry about that. AG


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## 6ftstudios (Jun 6, 2007)

basically, the way I understand the proposal is this...

This would be a national (or international) tour of a production that is designed for students to participate. However, instead of coming in for just a few days, doing some neat little workshops, performing, and leaving - the production would be in a sense "re-created" each time by the students. The only people traveling would be a core team of professionals to teach and guide students through the process.

did i get it? If so - I think it could be a great program. There are a number of organizations out there (such as the Young Americans) who have similar set-ups.

Arthur - as a note, I do agree with the others - it is important to break down what you're wanting to do so that anyone can understand. Most people aren't vision oriented so they need concrete examples.

Later,
Derrick


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 8, 2007)

I tried to post this responce a few days ago- 

Thank you Stantonsound & Footer4321. I'm not insulted by being called a hippie, it's the inference behind it that is revealing. You are correct that a program like this needs the internal support of the college and I think that can be done. In fact the support of regional companies is an excellent idea, since it is likely that students will move into that line of work as well. The trick there lies in designing a program that accomodates the various methods of operation that exist and linking them contractually so there is harmony. I have found that not-for-profits are not-receptive to profit making objectives outside of their own circles, because they generally seem to feel associating threatens their tax status, and thereby their fund raising abilities. You have the same situation in the school environment. Yet, the professional arena is required to gather funding from private investors and required to state emphatically that the endeavor is high risk and the investor will most likely loose their money. There seems to be quite a divergence between the assorted producing arenas and I think this causes much of the dissention I've experienced. There are distinct cultural differences in the assorted areas of producing theatre and I think that is something that a student needs to be made more fully aware of. A program like this could address some of these issues. It is a very complex scenario and I think the only way to fully evaluate what is required (across the board) is to set the maximum objective and work back from there. Everyone wants their show to succeed, some more than others, but success is contingent upon certian fairly well defined factors. Even then, a show that succeeds beyond all expectations does so on it's own merits. But for the most part, I believe that it is possible to manage a show in such a way as to have it succeed sufficiently to justify the effort and reduce the risk (and at least break even). Ancillary markets, advertising, and various sponsorship programs (employed by not-for-profits & universities) can be linked by well defined perimeters that do not impose on the divergent management structures. I think this is key... but I'm going off on a tangent. Thank you for your thoughts. AG

In response to

> the irons in the fire


comment: I updated my Mission Statement to address that, basically that's what I do- develop ideas and I don't have to proove anything to anybody, so negative commentary is unproductive. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 8, 2007)

I like what you said Derrick. I've had an association with another producer who was spaeaking along those lines. The core group brings the product into the theatre department. In his scenario, the core group brings the show into a four wall, but accesses local young talent to staff the show. That has value, but that's is not my picture. Your suggestion is somewhat like that and I think that could work well, but I was envisioning a credited course program that went outside of the individual college or university. In fact, not only would the associated Performing Arts Departments be linked together with a common goal, but other organizations would be linked to that goal. An example I've used would be that: "the fashion institute" would be responsible for the costuming. Using that example, the participating colleges may provide students interested in costuming to attend a seminar on costuming at the fashion institute using the costumes for "the show" as a test case. (the test case would be whichever show the program is currently using in "this years" training session). Just as that goes, so goes the other aspect or departments of "producing a tour" (at whatever level is determined by the board). I have to be carefull I tend to go on and on... more later. Thanks for your thoughts. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 13, 2007)

Just a Note: I'm setting the foundation for this program at the college and working to partner with a few people on it. I anticipate that there will need to be an academic board to supervise the implementation of the program in their respective schools. The management & communications methodology needs to be clarified and established, so I will be using this forum as a means of communicating the progress and inviting participants to dialogue on those issues. I'll periodically post here, whether or not anyone chooses to post as well. The development of this program will proceed with or without contributions from this forum, although I would be most pleased if serious, intelligent, collaborative thoughts and actions were generated from this source. 

In responce to Derricks idea that the show would be "recreated". I was envisioning more so that the show would be assembled by the participating schools, each their own aspect of it, working in collaboration and be presented at the sponsoring school, then moved to each school respectively. The students would move with the show. In this scenario, multiple shows could be produced, each being sponsored and presented by a different school. That way, the effort involved in putting up a show would not disperse after only a few performances and the students would benefit from learning what is involved in producing a show which tours. AG


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## Pie4Weebl (Jun 16, 2007)

so let me see if I get what you are suggestion.

Say 4 schools join the program. They each produce a show and then bring the show to the other schools in the program more or less creating a loop? Or is it, they all go to one school make it there and then travel it around to the other schools?


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 17, 2007)

Well, in a way that is true. But rather, the program would involved a number of schools, depending on the staffing requirements for the program. The idea would be to define a fully staffed touring production, with properly delegated positions. The schools would come together to produce one show, collectively and different aspects of that production would be distributed between the schools. Together, they would work to meet the appropriate requirements and schedule. The sponsoring school would present the Premiere, for a given number of performances, then the show would move forward to tour the circut of the participating schools. In the next cycle (whenever that was determined to be) a different school would be the sponsor and the presentor of the next piece. I envision the program being centered on the development of new works. I think that the extent of resources required to develop a musical is quite a lot and it would serve the many talents required for this if numerous schools could come together to share the burden and support one another, particluarly in their areas of speciality. It might be possible for a series of workshops to be conducted at the various schools using the production as the core project and even those workshops could be sponsored and moved around to the participating schools. I think it would help to both revitalize this aspect of theatre and to provide excellent training to young people wanting to move into this field. I think it would help to reduce the trial and error aspect approaching the field. Thanks for your imput. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 17, 2007)

Another note for your thoughs, Victor- the workshop aspect of the program could be approaced two ways: having one (or more, possibly a days worth of) workshops at each school and the students travel there, from the different schools to attend, or a smaller core group brings the workshops to the participating schools. Essentially, that would be like an exchange program. That, of course, is assuming the workshop idea is viable. AG


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## Footer (Jun 17, 2007)

Image of the Mind Studios said:


> Well, in a way that is true. But rather, the program would involved a number of schools, depending on the staffing requirements for the program. The idea would be to define a fully staffed touring production, with properly delegated positions. The schools would come together to produce one show, collectively and different aspects of that production would be distributed between the schools. Together, they would work to meet the appropriate requirements and schedule. The sponsoring school would present the Premiere, for a given number of performances, then the show would move forward to tour the circut of the participating schools. In the next cycle (whenever that was determined to be) a different school would be the sponsor and the presentor of the next piece. I envision the program being centered on the development of new works. I think that the extent of resources required to develop a musical is quite a lot and it would serve the many talents required for this if numerous schools could come together to share the burden and support one another, particluarly in their areas of speciality. It might be possible for a series of workshops to be conducted at the various schools using the production as the core project and even those workshops could be sponsored and moved around to the participating schools. I think it would help to both revitalize this aspect of theatre and to provide excellent training to young people wanting to move into this field. I think it would help to reduce the trial and error aspect approaching the field. Thanks for your imput. AG



I think its a great concept, my only issue would be time and space. This might work in places that have many universities in a small area, all with very active theatre programs. There are only a few city's in the country that this is true for. Also, the development of a musical, if thats what you want to go for, is a large endeavor. If you could get the full cooperation of the schools, you would then have to get the students behind it. On top of that, you would have to do it in a short enough time frame that you don't have people graduating mid production. You would also have to convince a theatre dept to take on something extra besides their regular season. Very few schools would want to give up a show in their 6,7,9,whatever show season to do something else that will be produced sometime in the future. I am not even going to touch on the "when" question. In order for this thing to go out and tour when all of the schools are still in session would be a huge issue to be dealt with.


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 18, 2007)

I think you're right about all that. Those are tough issues. But from my point of view, the only possible way something like this can manifest if it one starts to move forward on it and hashes out these details. Regarding the region. I'm centered in Bucks County, PA, between New York & Philadelphia. Within a hundred mile radius, I am certian there are enough schools to justify a program such as this. I'm sure the same is true in Boston, Chicago, Washington and LA, and probably down south too. Look at the activities in Orlando. But there is no reason why community theatres cannot be joined to a program such as this. If a school is sponsoring the program, community theatres in the area could be locations for workshops. Then what you say about getting the students behind it is true. A musical is a large endeavor, but the staffing positions are fairly well defined, even though it is somewhat flexible. I think that the way in which a program like this needs to proceed is to establish that staffing structure with a mentoring aspect to it. In my original concept, I saw a professional management team mentoring the apprentices. If that were the case, the professional production would have created job positions for the students if they do graduate mid-way thru and if that were the case, they would still be involved from the mentoring end of things. In a professional sense, you have a first class production and any number of second class productions. There are other arenas as well, which could provide job opportunities for students and not just students who are studying theatre. Remember there's marketing and accounting, and all the trades, publishing, product R&D. That's the beautiful thing about theatre- it uses all the known talents, arts & crafts, trades & business practices. It really is all encompassing. In terms of the theatre department's regular season- I think a program like this would more suitably be considered part of a curriculum and would most probably extend over longer period of time. Once the program was established for at least four years, the course of study would be entered into with the expectation that in year three, the production would then go up and in year four it would tour. That being the case, the touring production would end up being one of the shows presented by each of the participating schools perfroming arts departments. I doubt that in a collegiate environment all the components of a full production from the ground up could take place in less time than that. But, with multiple departments working together, that might happen, maybe even in two years. Part of the other thing is that, working out these details is something that a professional production must contend with, although not in a school environemt. A big part of the training in the program is that the students do the coordinating work that is necessary to make something like this happen. It's not something that is spoon fed to the students. They need to show their ability to step up to the plate. It's something they create together and can be proud that they succeeded at it. The instructors, whether they are eductional staff or professional mentors, are there to guide the students in their process. I guess the program needs to set goals and leave it up to the students to meet those goals. I suppose their success would determine their grade. Something like that. But remember that the community theatre aspect of it could be quite a valuable partner in the program as well. Thanks alot for your dialogue on this, it gets me fired up. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 18, 2007)

Another note: The program could possibly also include Summer Stock as part of the training, which would allow the students to get paid for their work during breaks and keep them tuned up for moving the program ahead when the next year starts. AG


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## Footer (Jun 18, 2007)

Image of the Mind Studios said:


> Another note: The program could possibly also include Summer Stock as part of the training, which would allow the students to get paid for their work during breaks and keep them tuned up for moving the program ahead when the next year starts. AG



Thats a good option and a very good point, if you could keep it up during the summer, it might move much faster. I am however a big proponent of students getting as far away from their school as possible for the summer.


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 19, 2007)

That's a good idea. Why not have major regional theatres (or even not so major) be part of the apprenticeship program, whereby the students would travel to another city for that aspect of the program. Then it would feel like they were getting away from school, on break, but would actually be continuing an aspect of the program. I guess the structure of the summer stock apprenticeship would need to be distinctly different from the "educational" environment of the school. I suppose maybe that is already happening. I wonder if there is an "official" program like this in place somewhere? I'm not totally up on that, it's been awhile since I was in the school environment. A few of the schools I worked in were unofficially associating, but there was no linked program.


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## Pie4Weebl (Jun 20, 2007)

image, I don't wanna sound like a douche, but could you use paragraphs, it would be a ton easier to follow what you are writing.


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Jun 25, 2007)

Sorry, sometime my flow of thinking moves at such a rate that to slow down and break it up interferes and then I run out of time to go back and fix it up. I'll try not to do that in the future.

I've been talking to a few people about sitting on the management team. The concept of an apprenticeship program is getting very excited and positive responces from a number of people. We'll see how it goes. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Aug 1, 2007)

Not much happening on this front right now. I'm busy producing an album of show music and implementing a few other things. Conversations on this concept are still taking place but I'm looking for board members, which are required before anything can move too far forward. AG


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## Image of the Mind Studios (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: Touring a show/Academic Apprenticeship Program*

*Academic Apprenticeship Program*- Not much has actually been done on implementing the ideas we discussed here, however, I've begun discussions on my BLOG regarding the show which I'd like to use as a test case for this concept. If you are interested, search Goggle for *Image of the Mind Studios *or link to my Home page. I don't seriously expect to pushing very hard myself for this concept to manifest, because I'm quite frankly limited as to time. However, I will continue to theorize of the structure and work to produce an operations manual in the hope that it may be implemented or a Project Director may appear. I welcome anyone wishing to continue this line of discussion and I will post from time to time. *AG*


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