# ETC EOS questions



## Shawncfer (Jan 5, 2011)

So I have a couple questions here for you guys.

1. Right now I'm recording a show and I've come across a little problem. My cue 17 has some Movers doing a Figure 8, then cue 18 is a blackout, and then 19 fades back into what cue 17 was (movers doing figure 8). Well I've noticed whenever I go to black out, the movers aren't doing the effect. In other words, when I start cue 19, the moving lights start from standing still and it looks ugly. Is the only way to avoid this by recording the effect in the blackout? I mean thats a simple fix, no big deal. But for some reason I though thats what automark (which is enabled) did. Am I wrong?

2. I previously made my own effect with some different colored par cans doing a slow chase. Well now I've got many more lights with the same colors and I wanted to still do a chase. Can I reference back to that same effect by just selecting the channels and then 'Effect whatever'? Or would I have to edit it and add the other channels as more steps? Or just make a new cue?

3. So earlier, I pressed 'Chanel 55-60 CAPTURE' and quickly realized thats not what I wanted. So I hit undo and took care of it. But now in everyone of my cues, those channels have a *C* In the corner on the screen. Was that already there before hand and I didn't notice it? Or am I freakingout over nothing?


----------



## HansH (Jan 5, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> So I have a couple questions here for you guys.
> 
> 1. Right now I'm recording a show and I've come across a little problem. My cue 17 has some Movers doing a Figure 8, then cue 18 is a blackout, and then 19 fades back into what cue 17 was (movers doing figure 8). Well I've noticed whenever I go to black out, the movers aren't doing the effect. In other words, when I start cue 19, the moving lights start from standing still and it looks ugly. Is the only way to avoid this by recording the effect in the blackout? I mean thats a simple fix, no big deal. But for some reason I though thats what automark (which is enabled) did. Am I wrong?
> 
> ...


 
Hi there!

First, it looks like you'll need to place those fixtures into the effect during the blackout cue (18). It sounds like there is a move instruction and stop effect in cue 18, and the effect therefore stops and starts. I need to check this a bit more back at the office, but that's what it sounds like at first glance. The syntax for recalling the effect is quite easy -- (Channels) [Effect] (Number), or (Channels) {Focus} [Recall From] [Cue] [1] [7] [Enter], followed by [Update]. (As always -- really check what you're updating!).

Second, it really depends on the type of effect that you created. Linear effects would be very easy to assign additional channels. (Channels) [Effect] (Number) [Enter]. If it's a step based effect, there's a bit more work involved, and you would need to add them to each step, and then assign the effect to them in the cue. Similarly, absolute effects will require you to add them to the referenced data -- probably a group or color palette in this case, and then assign them to the effect in the cue.

Finally, in regards to your third question, just hit [Capture] [Enter] again with nothing selected in the command line. It looks like the Capture flag was sticking as I was playing with this in offline as well. (Again, something I'd want to investigate more in the office tomorrow). What version of software are you running?


----------



## Shawncfer (Jan 5, 2011)

HansH said:


> Hi there!
> 
> First, it looks like you'll need to place those fixtures into the effect during the blackout cue (18). It sounds like there is a move instruction and stop effect in cue 18, and the effect therefore stops and starts.
> 
> ...


 
Software version I don't know off hand. I can check tomorrow night and post on here to let you know. 

It's not hard or complicated to run the effect during the blackout, I just thought thats what Auto-Marking was. That if in cue 19 theres an effect, the board would be able to tell and start (or in this case continue) that effect the cue before. Now let me ask if you if its the way that I do it. I'm not a big fan of tracking, I prefer cue only. So what I like to do is keep it in cue only. And if its a dramatic lighting change (which cue 18 is a dramatic light change from 17) then I will go to cue 0 and make a whole new look. And if its not a big light change ill just make adjustments.

But what I did here was set all my conventionals how I wanted them, then intels and their effect; Recorded cue 17....Go to cue 0, bring up 1 conventional; Record cue 18...Then hit back and brought up 17, and hit Record [1][9] [Enter]. 

I hope that makes sense. Would it have been easier if I hadn't had gone to cue 0?




HansH said:


> Hi there!
> Finally, in regards to your third question, just hit [Capture] [Enter] again with nothing selected in the command line. It looks like the Capture flag was sticking as I was playing with this in offline as well. (Again, something I'd want to investigate more in the office tomorrow). What version of software are you running?



So the [Capture] [Enter] will clear that C on those channels?


----------



## HansH (Jan 5, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> It's not hard or complicated to run the effect during the blackout, I just thought thats what Auto-Marking was. That if in cue 19 theres an effect, the board would be able to tell and start (or in this case continue) that effect the cue before. Now let me ask if you if its the way that I do it. I'm not a big fan of tracking, I prefer cue only. So what I like to do is keep it in cue only. And if its a dramatic lighting change (which cue 18 is a dramatic light change from 17) then I will go to cue 0 and make a whole new look. And if its not a big light change ill just make adjustments.
> 
> But what I did here was set all my conventionals how I wanted them, then intels and their effect; Recorded cue 17....Go to cue 0, bring up 1 conventional; Record cue 18...Then hit back and brought up 17, and hit Record [1][9] [Enter].
> 
> I hope that makes sense. Would it have been easier if I hadn't had gone to cue 0?



Tracking versus Cue Only is definitely a matter of preference, and I've found even depends on the style of show you're programming. I'm a Tracking person myself most days.

In any case, I'm not sure that Automark will begin effects automatically. Even if it did, you would still have the effect fade out from cue 17 (depending on how it was setup), and fade back in on the mark in cue 18. I'll do some more research tomorrow at the office. 

FWIW, it appears that in version 1.9.1, effects do fade out with a Goto Cue 0 command. Another command that would get you along the same idea for programming would be to use the Rem Dim command -- it also has the benefit of preserving the running effect.



Shawncfer said:


> So the [Capture] [Enter] will clear that C on those channels?



That's what worked for me in 1.9.1 offline.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Jan 5, 2011)

Automarking will move the fixtures to their start position, starting color, starting beam, etc. but it won't start an effect. You may be able to get the effect to start before the intensity comes up by adding an intensity delay to the cue. It's not something I've needed to try before. Another option is to insert a cue to restart the effect and add a follow cue to bring up the intensity.

When working with moving lights, tracking or rather move/fade is the best way to go. Make the paradigm shift. You'll thank yourself once you've crossed the chasm. On EOS, [Recall From] is extremely useful to clean up queues and put tracking in where none existing before. If you want to rebuild cue intensities then try using [Select Active][Out] rather than [Go to cue]0 in order to preserve color, beam and focus information.


----------



## Shawncfer (Jan 6, 2011)

Maybe its because I never quite understood the point of tracking. I mean, I know the rules of it. What you record in cue 1 will continue on until you change its intensity or you stop it.

But I don't understand how that would be beneficial. I mean if I have cue 6 up and I wanna record cue 7 and its a small change, then ill just make the small change and record 7. If not then [Go to cue] [0] and then make a whole new look. I just dont see how tracking would make things easier. Can someone inform me on that?


----------



## Shawncfer (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh and another question, which I guess I should already know but I didn't pay attention earlier.

If cue 17 has the effect and cue 18 doesnt, then with the effect on 17 keep going until the lights fade out and then stop or will the effect slow down with the fade out?

Oh and I do have version 1.9.0


----------



## DuckJordan (Jan 6, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> Maybe its because I never quite understood the point of tracking. I mean, I know the rules of it. What you record in cue 1 will continue on until you change its intensity or you stop it.
> 
> But I don't understand how that would be beneficial. I mean if I have cue 6 up and I wanna record cue 7 and its a small change, then ill just make the small change and record 7. If not then [Go to cue] [0] and then make a whole new look. I just dont see how tracking would make things easier. Can someone inform me on that?


 
Now its not a big deal but before it would take quite a bit of space to save every single cue instead of just using the same values as before to create the look. Its also good if you are doing only 1 change but you want to change that value. 

It makes it easier to change your show file if you find you don't like the intensity or value of something if its in subsequent cues. So instead of having to go back to every single cue that fixture is in before a BO you can just change the cue that you don't like the value and then from their after its that same value if it isn't changed in a later cue. Saving time on changing things and less to worry about making sure you've gone through every cue to change.


----------



## Shawncfer (Jan 6, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> It makes it easier to change your show file if you find you don't like the intensity or value of something if its in subsequent cues. So instead of having to go back to every single cue that fixture is in before a BO you can just change the cue that you don't like the value and then from their after its that same value if it isn't changed in a later cue. Saving time on changing things and less to worry about making sure you've gone through every cue to change.



And thats one thing I like to do. For example, when I recorded our last show on it, I forgot to record the Isle lights into every cue. So I put the board in tracking and recorded it. But other than things like that, I still dont see the need for it.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Jan 6, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> For example, when I recorded our last show on it, I forgot to record the Isle lights into every cue. So I put the board in tracking and recorded it. But other than things like that, I still dont see the need for it.


The aisle lights could have been parked and accomplished the same thing without having to fix your queues.

ETC produced a nice video explaining the origins and differences between preset and move-fade and a whitepaper  on the same theme that may be a good starting point.


Preset-style programming was over for me once we started adding scrollers to our rig. It became one more piece of data that needed to be recorded into each cue in order to prevent _scroller zip_; that annoying loud noise that happens when the scrollers move to frame 0, or a moving head homes it's pan/tilt because I forgot to record the previous value into the cue.

That was nice. Then came the show where the director wanted the bathroom light (offstage practical) going on and off every time an actor went through the door. In the days of presets it meant cloning the previous cue, adding the light, copying the previous cue, and so on building up a long list of _almost the same_ cues. That was fine, until I wanted things rebalanced a bit, or another light added to the rig. All the cues needed to be edited to pick up the change, which can be a slow and tedious task if your console doesn't support range editing (cue x thru y). With tracking, this sort of sequence was trivial and future changes were trivial too.

Since making little changes was so much easier, adding in intensity or color shift cues to focus the audience's attention on certain areas or actors became much easier so I was more inclined to do it, and the shows got a little bit better. Kind of related, adding gizmos like color changers to instruments changed the game. There was a time when changing color meant changing the intensity of 2 different instruments. Preset programming was OK for doing this. Today, it means changing the color and the intensity of the same instrument, possibly over a sequence of cues, or with different timings on each of the parameters.

I haven't got time to get started with multiple cue lists and the boon they bring to rentals and revue shows, and why tracking in those means I can piece together a show using bits and pieces of other shows rather than starting from scratch.

In the end, it comes down to how you want to spend your time. For me, it takes less time to accomplish what I used to do with preset programming, leaving me more time to polish the show. Sure, I stumbled quite a bit getting my head around thinking more about what was changing and how it was changing rather than the final look, but now that I have a better understanding about those transitions, I can use the skill to make my designs better.


----------



## bdkdesigns (Jan 6, 2011)

Also, when in tracking mode, don't forget to apply blocks to blackout cues. I still often forget and there's nothing worse than adding a light to a look and getting to the "blackout" only to have the director asking why the stage isn't dark. 

Also, don't forget there is a button stating something along the lines of "track/cue only" or something like that. In your explanation, lets pretend that the isle lights are channel 500 and you are in cue only mode. If you wanted them on at 50% during the show, you could hit 500 @ 5 "track/cue only" enter to get that to track throughout the show instead of having to change the console into Tracking mode.

Basically, that button acts as the opposite of whatever mode the console is in. When in Cue Only, it gives you the option of telling a certain action to track and when in tracking, it gives you the option of telling a certain action to not track through the cues. I use this button all the time no matter what mode I'm in (although I do prefer tracking)


----------



## venuetech (Jan 6, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> Maybe its because I never quite understood the point of tracking. I mean, I know the rules of it. What you record in cue 1 will continue on until you change its intensity or you stop it.
> 
> But I don't understand how that would be beneficial. I mean if I have cue 6 up and I wanna record cue 7 and its a small change, then ill just make the small change and record 7. If not then [Go to cue] [0] and then make a whole new look. I just dont see how tracking would make things easier. Can someone inform me on that?


 
way back when computers were first getting started one of the most expensive parts was the "memory" and the amount of memory was very limited.
the number of cues my old mini-light pallet would handel was directly related to the number of channels recorded within a cue. Tracking cues that had 5 channels change levels took up hardly any memory(40 bits). I could write cues all day. but if i recorded block cues as bdkdesigns sugests that would be 200 channels (1600 bits). I would quickly run out of memory if i overused block cues. You just had to use block cues sparingly.


----------



## avalentino (Jan 7, 2011)

bdkdesigns said:


> Also, when in tracking mode, don't forget to apply blocks to blackout cues. I still often forget and there's nothing worse than adding a light to a look and getting to the "blackout" only to have the director asking why the stage isn't dark.



Hey There. I'd like to add something here. In the Eos family of products, we modified the behavior of block a bit. It is an editing only function. So, the application of a block will stop a track from coming into a cue. However, the block flag has no impact on playback. So, simply blocking a cue will not guarantee a blackout. There is a separate feature for that called assert. Assert is a way to make sure the entire content of the cue (or channels/channel parameters based on where the assert flag is applied) is recalled on a cue go. 

So, if you have lights fading toward zero in Cue 10 (for example) and before those lights have completed their fade, you go cue 11, which is a bump to black. The lights that began their fade toward zero in Cue 10 will continue fading in the time of cue 10.... even if they are blocked in cue 11. If you Assert cue 11, however, the timing is recalculated (since the bump to black on those channels already fading out is called as a new move instruction due to the assert flag), you'll get your bump to black.

Does that make any sense? So, effectively, blocking is a way to treat a tracked value as a move instruction from an editing standpoint, while assert is a way to treat a tracked value as a move instruction from a playback standpoint.

Hope that helps!
a


----------

