# Stars appearing magically all around viewers.



## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 14, 2020)

So I have been posting on my project to recreate the basement elevator entrance at the Disney Tower of Terror ride along with creating multiple special effects for viewers representing a transition from today, to 1939 and recreating events of what happened to cause the elevator crash and the disappearance of the guests inside, to the experience of transitioning through the twilight zone and entering the Fifth Dimension as a permanent guest in the Tower of Terror Theater hotel. Here is a link to the Youtube channel documenting the development of the set, and special effects.







Tower of Terror Theater

This Channel will be focused on my decade-long dream to recreate the Disney Tower of Terror basement elevator ride entrance from a standard sliding glass doo...



www.youtube.com




As part of the growing list of the sequence of programmed special effects, one being currently contemplated is essentially reproducing a portion of the Disney ride shown here in which the set is darkened and replaced with stars. Credit to Attraction Spot Youtube channel for video used.



I believe this is done by the Disney Tower of Terror set having fiberoptic strands (3 or 4 different diameters) embedded in the set walls which illuminate as the set darkens. I would like to reproduce, no actually one-up Disney by having this same effect in the entire room in my Tower of Terror Theater project from the floor to the ceiling enveloping the viewers. I think that I can have styrofoam1' thick sheets as were used to construct the original set to reproduce the concrete block walls embedded with the various sized fiberoptic strands in starfield pattern extending through and left with excess length on the outside, and the inside strands running to the fiberoptic light source. The exterior styrofoam sheets can be adhered to all the wall surfaces and ceiling surfaces and then textured, painted/hard coated in similar fashion as the original set to appear like concrete block on the walls, and concrete slab on the soffits and ceiling, and make a surface that will not be easily damaged by prodding fingers, shoes, etc. Once this is done then all the fiberoptic strands would be trimmed at the surface which hopefully would not be detectable until the lights go off and the fiberoptic light source is turned on. 

Do you agree with my presumption on how this effect works at Disney, and if I am missing anything in my plans?


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## RonHebbard (Jan 15, 2020)

Tower of Terror Theater said:


> So I have been posting on my project to recreate the basement elevator entrance at the Disney Tower of Terror ride along with creating multiple special effects for viewers representing a transition from today, to 1939 and recreating events of what happened to cause the elevator crash and the disappearance of the guests inside, to the experience of transitioning through the twilight zone and entering the Fifth Dimension as a permanent guest in the Tower of Terror Theater hotel. Here is a link to the Youtube channel documenting the development of the set, and special effects.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
*@Tower of Terror Theater * You MAY want to look into (https://tprlights.com/fiber-optics/ ) 
TPR's range of fibre for lighting applications, including bulk reels (and cuts to length) of end illuminating & side illuminating fibre, plus a range of mounting options, fancy lenses for your cut ends, illuminators, ferrules, twinkle and multi-color rotating wheels, totally raw fibre or pre-cut to measured lengths, glued into a ferrule, all polished and prepped ready for inserting into one of their illuminators; even back in 1999, TPR and Tom Fay were doing synchronized rotators across 6 (or more) illuminators to permit comets to flash across the skies of their lager star field installations. 

*Yes*, you MAY want to investigate their VERY complete range of products for fibre optic lighting applications.
*No*, I'm not affiliated with TPR in any way; my memories of purchasing all of our fibre supplies flashed through my mind from my days of playing Head LX in a local IA scenery and automation shop; for myself, those days were in approximately 1992 through 1996 or '97. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## macsound (Jan 17, 2020)

I believe the fiber optics were in the adjacent room and that's how they do the overlay. Because everything that you see that isn't the room, is actually a pepper's ghost effect off to the side. 
In your situation you could use something like this could work. Project some laser beams.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 17, 2020)

Yes after watching a behind the scenes video on the TOT, the "walls" of the hotel are printed/painted theatrical skrims, with stars located behind the skrims. For my purpose where viewers may be a foot away from wall surfaces, I think embedding the fiberoptic fibers in sheetrock is the proper option.


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## macsound (Jan 17, 2020)

Fiber optics would be amazing, but you'd have to get them through the backside of the sheetrock - the type of fiber optics you want only illuminate on the tips, so you'd have to remove all of your walls, install fiber and replace them. 
I know this is a big project but this seems reaaaallllly big.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 17, 2020)

The current walls have stucco. So the plan is to presize the sheetrock, drill, install and glue the fiberoptic fibers extending a few inches or more out the exterior surface of the sheetrock, then install the sheetrock. The sheetrock would be finished with paint, hard coat, etc (I really have not decided yet what to do). I was just looking at the Tower of Terror Basement photos, and looks like they have mainly bricks as the wall surface. Then of course all the fiberoptic strands would have to be run to the light engine. I got a preliminary estimate that I would need about (10) 35 watt LED light engines to power all the fiberoptic strands to cover ceiling and all wall surfaces.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 18, 2020)

Tower of Terror Theater said:


> The current walls have stucco. So the plan is to preside the sheetrock, drill, install and glue the fiberoptic fibers extending a few inches or more out the exterior surface of the sheetrock, then install the sheetrock. The sheetrock would be finished with paint, hard coat, etc (I really have not decided yet what to do). I was just looking at the Tower of Terror Basement photos, and looks like they have mainly bricks as the wall surface. Then of course all the fiberoptic strands would have to be run to the light engine. I got a preliminary estimate that I would need about (10) 35 watt LED light engines to power all the fiberoptic strands to cover ceiling and all wall surfaces.


Hello *@Tower of Terror Theater * Once again I'll steer you towards Tom Fay's https://tprlights.com/fiber-optics/ 

Yes, Mrs. Google tells me they're still in business. 
No; I'm still neither an employee nor on commission. 
Yes; Seemingly Tom Fay's still involved and currently listed as their President. 
Do at least glance over their site, give them a call, discuss your project, absorb their experience and knowledge then afford them the opportunity to recommend specific illuminators and accessories and permit them to quote. They really are THAT good. 

Feel free to drop my name though I'd be amazed if Tom remembers me at all after more than 25 years. We eventually met face to face briefly and shook hands in 1999 near the end of my involvement supplying, installing, programming and commissioning all of the AV and Alcorn McBride show control gear for Madamme Tussaud's LasVegas location.
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 18, 2020)

The one fiber optic star ceiling I worked on was wet plaster, not drywall. Put up metal lath, install fiberoptic (with astronomer's help) and plaster, fwiw.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 18, 2020)

Bill could you elaborate in a little more detail please? Specifically how were the fibers supported/attached? So you are saying there was some type of metal lattice/mesh placed and fiberoptic fibers attached/penetrated the metal mesh and then plastered? Thanks


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 18, 2020)

Basic wet plaster on metal lath. Fibre optic points wired to lath. It was over 20 years ago and I was not on site during work. Google images for metal plaster lath.

PS Maybe gwb us fine today. Not sure how you get the layout without working from behind or over after it's in place, or how the fibre ends are held and finished. Post pictures!


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## macsound (Jan 21, 2020)

Might also have luck doing a stretched fabric wall install like acousticwallfabric.com Then you can tape or glue the fiber behind the panel facing front and poke the fibers easily through as the fabric goes on.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 21, 2020)

My goal is to make the fiberoptic strands in the wall undetectable as possible from normal wall surface.


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## RickR (Jan 21, 2020)

Watch you bend radius! 

I once did FO penetrating marble. Anything is possible, but rough ideas are always impractical.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 23, 2020)

The plan would be to place perhaps a 2" lattice of wood on all stucco surfaces to allow the fiberoptic cables to run back to the light engines, and then cut drywall to fit surfaces working from the most distant locations to the closest to light engines . Then drill holes in the drywall as desired and insert fiberoptic strands, glue in place and leave at least several inches of fiber extending out the exterior surface. Mount the drywall onto the wood lattice and proceed to cover all surfaces with dry wall. Finish corners as per any sheetrock wall. Paint, apply desired surface. Cut fibers at surface of sheetrock leaving clean, light-emitting ends. Now I am not saying I can/want to personally do any of this, and realize that I have no experience or skill in any of these steps. But is there any reason why any of this is that difficult that I am not realizing? Now obviously it is not that difficult to find a drywaller, but I cant find someone who has experience in both placing the fiberoptic strands in drywall AND floating these.


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## macsound (Jan 23, 2020)

Wow that's a great plan.
I think doing a small scale test, for yourself and to convince and show the installer how you want it done would be a good idea. You could easily do a 2'x2' square with no skills.
Something to think about would be leaving the fibers extending beyond the surface and then painting. I think it would be best to spray paint because a roller or brush could break the fibers in the wrong spot or bend them down, leaving streaks of paint. Could still be regular paint, just making sure you hire a painter with a sprayer. 

An alternative to the fiber optics are mini LEDs like this They could be inserted from the front and blend the LED into the surface with paint texturing, or use the same method you planned for the fiber and insert from the back.
You'd need to crimp or solder (or hire someone) a bunch of wires, but if you're planning on doing DMX control, you could wire them individually or in groups so you'd have even more control.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 23, 2020)

macsound said:


> Wow that's a great plan.
> I think doing a small scale test, for yourself and to convince and show the installer how you want it done would be a good idea. You could easily do a 2'x2' square with no skills.
> Something to think about would be leaving the fibers extending beyond the surface and then painting. I think it would be best to spray paint because a roller or brush could break the fibers in the wrong spot or bend them down, leaving streaks of paint. Could still be regular paint, just making sure you hire a painter with a sprayer.
> 
> ...


 *@Tower of Terror Theater* and *@macsound* Crimping and / or soldering all those tiny LED's would seem to be far more time consuming than using multiple illuminators (possibly with internal rotating twinkle wheels) fanning out their fibres to random, or planned (specific galaxies) locations. 
Six or eight illuminators with their associated power and control wiring Vs. Hundreds or thousands of tiny LED's with two connections per LED.
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## RickR (Jan 23, 2020)

Back in the early 90s the was a fair bit of custom FO "star field" work done in high end homes, restaurants and such. I've long since lost track of the players I knew but someone is probably still doing it.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 23, 2020)

MacSound. Your comment on using spray paint is so simple but so true and did not occur to me prior to your comment. Thanks for your insignt.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Jan 23, 2020)

RickR said:


> Back in the early 90s the was a fair bit of custom FO "star field" work done in high end homes, restaurants and such. I've long since lost track of the players I knew but someone is probably still doing it.


Unfortunately, I have been unable to locate anyone in the Las Vegas area who does custom fiberoptic starfield installations.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 24, 2020)

Why fiber optic when LEDs embedded in the drywall would likely be easier and less expensive?


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## RonHebbard (Jan 24, 2020)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Why fiber optic when LEDs embedded in the drywall would likely be easier and less expensive?


An awful lot of soldering or crimping of tiny, fiddly, connections and then there's the control to contend with. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 24, 2020)

I never thought anyone would think individual LEDs. Buy it in wired strings. Who cares if half or more are left unseen - cheap. And seems simpler to control LED and get some twinkling and such than fibre optic. Wire is certainly easier to cram into shallow space behind drywall than fibre optic. Plus who will do the fibre optic today?

This is not a low budget project. Buy a string or two and a sheet of drywall and experiment. I kind of like the stretch wall idea - a fabric on a track and spline system. But maybe "hard" walls are really needed.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (Feb 7, 2020)

So after learning how Disney does the illusion on the Tower of Terror in which they have scrim painted to appear very convincingly as the walls/trim of the hotel hall with fiberoptic stars behind the scrim which become apparent when the set lights illuminating the scrim are turned off, I think that is essentially what I will do. This allows me to get a reasonable good approximation of the effect without having to do large permanent modifications of the room. So what I will do is to buy this product which is a black cloth embedded with three different sized LEDs to mimic stars which can be customized to any size. 


It includes the power supply and is quite a value compared to attempting to cover the same area with commercially available panels embedded with fiberoptic fibers and light engine, and ALOT less work than trying to custom make drywall panels with fiberoptic fibers penetrating, and then painting. 

I will secure this onto the stucco wall and make small holes in the fabric ( have to be careful not to damage wires to LED lights though) in the stucco wall for power/electronics including flame lights for the 3D moldings of boiler room grates over the LED fabric. Then I will place a scrim over the entire wall to cover the LED fabric and stretch this to cover the entire wall and secure. Then I have a commercial artist to paint a Boiler room scene on the scrim. I will have to do some testing to use paint that will not obscure the LEDs when lit. It will be challenging I think for the artist to be as convincing as Disney, since viewers in the room will be about 6-7 ft away and closer than riders are to the set in the Tower of Terror, but at worst the viewers will get the ambience if not believe the actual boiler room set is real. 

Anyway that is my plan after ALOT of thought and consideration for cost, time, hassle, actual modification of existing room, permanency of changes and effect of property value.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 7, 2020)

Cool. Post photos when it's done.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (May 13, 2020)

Here is demo of the LED star cloth. It has been mounted on a wall, and a mesh photo mural of the Tower of Terror boiler room will go over it, concealing it until the lights in the room go off, revealing the stars.


Here is the image that will be printed on a mesh and mounted over the star fabric . It was taken by Todd Hurley; I purchased the high resolution version which can be enlarged to about 13ft long and 9 feet high and still look good.


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## RonHebbard (May 13, 2020)

Tower of Terror Theater said:


> Here is demo of the LED star cloth. It has been mounted on a wall, and a mesh photo mural of the Tower of Terror boiler room will go over it, concealing it until the lights in the room go off, revealing the stars.



*@Tower of Terror Theater* Will the stars twinkle or do tricks like shooting stars? 
Have you ever acquired a sample of Black RP Screen to experiment with? 

Some guys build 'Man Caves', basement bars, fancy six car garages; You've got your very own Tower Of Terror Theatre, COOL! 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Tower of Terror Theater (May 13, 2020)

The LED "stars" are DMX controllable, but the existing twinkle programs that are preprogrammed did not look realistic to me. The static patterns looked more realistic. My technical/creative partner has a friend who is more experienced with DMX control and he will come take a look to see if he can get a more realistic twinkling of the stars; if not I am satisfied with a static pattern. 

As far as the "holographic," display I really had tried so many things and invested in multiple things (UHD short throw projector, standard throw projector, multiple holographic films) only some of which were returnable, that I decided to JUST STOP and make a choice and go with the peppers ghost approach which clutters the theater, but gives an acceptable , in my humble opinion, result. 

Thanks!


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## RonHebbard (May 14, 2020)

Tower of Terror Theater said:


> The LED "stars" are DMX controllable, but the existing twinkle programs that are preprogrammed did not look realistic to me. The static patterns looked more realistic. My technical/creative partner has a friend who is more experienced with DMX control and he will come take a look to see if he can get a more realistic twinkling of the stars; if not I am satisfied with a static pattern.
> 
> As far as the "holographic," display I really had tried so many things and invested in multiple things (UHD short throw projector, standard throw projector, multiple holographic films) only some of which were returnable, that I decided to JUST STOP and make a choice and go with the peppers ghost approach which clutters the theater, but gives an acceptable , in my humble opinion, result.
> 
> Thanks!


*@Tower of Terror Theater *
Further to your stars; perhaps I shouldn't have said twinkle, I wan't envisioning any of the blatant on / off patterns. 
I meant something far more subtle with each star twinkling, varying in intensity without obviously turning on and off; each star twinkling to its own drummer, not obviously matching, or in synch' with, any other stars: The kind of gentle, not particularly attention taking, variations you'd often see on a clear, cloudless, night lying on the dock at your summer cottage staring up at the night sky. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Tower of Terror Theater (May 14, 2020)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Tower of Terror Theater *
> Further to your stars; perhaps I shouldn't have said twinkle, I wan't envisioning any of the blatant on / off patterns.
> I meant something far more subtle with each star twinkling, varying in intensity without obviously turning on and off; each star twinkling to its own drummer, not obviously matching, or in synch' with, any other stars: The kind of gentle, not particularly attention taking, variations you'd often see on a clear, cloudless, night lying on the dock at your summer cottage staring up at the night sky.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


You describe exactly what I am hoping to have the stars appear on the LED cloth. I will post what it looks like once the photomural is up and perhaps I can get the stars to appear as you describe with some DMX programming help. 

Thanks Ron.


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## Tower of Terror Theater (May 19, 2020)

OK here is the set prior to the addition of 3D props, and lighting effects.


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## clais (May 19, 2020)

Looks good! The corridor scenes use fiber in the scenery as well as pepper's ghost effect that shows more stars as different depths.


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