# Source Four LED Cyc???



## JackMVHS (Apr 30, 2013)

I was just on the ETC facebook page, and there was reference to a new product, the Source Four LED Cyc!!

Does anyone know anything about this? It seems that they are showing a sneak preview of it at PLASA Focus in the UK.

All I can find online about the new fixture is the facebook post from ETC and this image on a blog:




It appears to be a source four LED with a different lens/reflector attachment.

Thoughts? Other information about it?


Here is the facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151361232110946&set=a.98573705945.101553.7586890945&type=1


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## doctrjohn (Apr 30, 2013)

I understand it was at USITT (though, unfortunately, I was not). One of the ETC folks I chatted with after commented on how little attention it received at the show; I guess everyone was more interested in the Source Four Mini...

Best,
John


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## Les (Apr 30, 2013)

Wow. Excellent concept, but ugliest thing ever. 

I assume this isn't heat resistant enough for tungsten? If it was, would the optics even work for such a point source? I could see this being useful as an accessory for those strapped on cash.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 30, 2013)

I have not seen it to evaluate the lighting job it does on a sky drop or cyc but do appreciate that with a lens barrel, it has other uses. And of course unlike the Selador classic - which I thought did affine job on sky drops and cys, it is intended to be at a more conventional distance from the drop, as opposed to the Selador being in the 20" range and scraping. I anticipate a full fledge roll out around LDI.


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## rochem (May 1, 2013)

I got a tip that it will be back at ETC NY in about a week and a half, so I'm gonna see if I can stop into the office around then to pay Nick Gonsman a visit.


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## gafftapegreenia (May 1, 2013)

doctrjohn said:


> I understand it was at USITT (though, unfortunately, I was not). One of the ETC folks I chatted with after commented on how little attention it received at the show; I guess everyone was more interested in the Source Four Mini...
> 
> Best,
> John



To be fair, they didn't have them plastered all over their booth. HAD they been pushing it the same, I'm sure it would have received more attention.


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## Lafalot (May 1, 2013)

FWIW, both USITT and Plasa Focus are considered "sneak previews" of the product. More information will become available in the future.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 1, 2013)

Go to CUE. Bound to be on display there.


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## zmb (May 1, 2013)

Weirdest looking fixture I've seen, but if it works well why bother? Trying to clarify, is that some sort of reflector lens assembly that attaches to a Selador LED fixture?


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 3, 2013)

I understand it basically is changed like a lens barrel on an S4 LED.


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## techieman33 (May 3, 2013)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I understand it basically is changed like a lens barrel on an S4 LED.



It has to be more than that or we would still see shutters, accessory slots, etc.


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## Footer (May 3, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> It has to be more than that or we would still see shutters, accessory slots, etc.



Just like the regular S4's the S4 LED has a break where the lens and shutter assembly spins. From the looks of things this thing attaches at that point... so you will have to remove the entire shutter assembly. 

Would be nice to have everything onstage using the same color engine. My only concern is how deep the thing is... in a world where we all cram as much as possible between the cyc lights and the back wall every pipe is priceless, if you have to kill 3 battens because of the depth that could be an issue. Might not be, but it is a real consideration. One of the things I like about the spectra cyc 200 is that it is only 7.5" deep (though they have their cable connections on the back of the unit which would take up a few inches of space).


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## DuckJordan (May 3, 2013)

but in theory you could over hang this fixture above the cyc you are attempting to light.


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## Footer (May 4, 2013)

DuckJordan said:


> but in theory you could over hang this fixture above the cyc you are attempting to light.



Granted, I'm taking this from the only knowledge I have is from the picture above... I think this think is supposed to act like a tradition sky cyc instead of more of a strip unit Therefore, it would need to be at least 4' or so away from the cyc.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 4, 2013)

DuckJordan said:


> but in theory you could over hang this fixture above the cyc you are attempting to light.



Agreeing with Kyle, intent us 5' or so from drop and 5' or so on center. As compared to lighting with Selador Classic or other "scraper" style led drop light, should require fewer and therefore be less expensive to light a whole drop or cyc, a basic marketing goal, just like being able to convert to a profile. Anyone think there aren't prototype fresnel like front ends laying around somewhere? It is after all show Business.


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## shiben (May 6, 2013)

doctrjohn said:


> I understand it was at USITT (though, unfortunately, I was not). One of the ETC folks I chatted with after commented on how little attention it received at the show; I guess everyone was more interested in the Source Four Mini...
> 
> Best,
> John



Also to be fair, it didnt look very good in their booth. Everything just looked uneven and not totally done on the unit, and they talked about it for maybe 2 seconds in the layers of light session.

And for the source 4 mini, at that price, Ill buy half a source 4 thank you very much.


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## Colby512 (May 6, 2013)

Does anyone know if they have incorporated the amber shift into it like many other brands of LEDs are starting to do?


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## sk8rsdad (May 6, 2013)

Colby512 said:


> Does anyone know if they have incorporated the amber shift into it like many other brands of LEDs are starting to do?



The X7 color mixing system has had that feature for years. They would have to to do extra work to remove it.


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## DavidNorth (May 7, 2013)

shiben said:


> Also to be fair, it didnt look very good in their booth. Everything just looked uneven and not totally done on the unit, and they talked about it for maybe 2 seconds in the layers of light session.



Indeed you are correct about that. Those were not the final optics and we decided not to spend a lot of time talking about them until such time as we worked out the last details. Should be done soon.

David


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## JohnD (May 7, 2013)

Thanks for the update Mr. North, Your next assignment, should you choose to accept it, is the Source4 Beam projector. No, really there is some interest in a modified Source4Par for use as a beam projector, since the real thing is rather scarce. http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/32043-day-light.html


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## derekleffew (May 7, 2013)

JohnD said:


> ...Your next assignment, should you choose to accept it, is the Source4 Beam projector. No, really there is some interest in a modified Source4Par for use as a beam projector, since the real thing is rather scarce. ...


Shouldn't be terribly difficult--it already has the parabolic reflector. Bring back the ACL lens, slap a Bortz Dot after the lamp, and away we go...
Peak/cosine (spot/flood) lamp adjustment could be tricky in an S4-PAR, however. It might have to use the S4-ERS lamp cap.
.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 7, 2013)

I'd like to see a S4LED without a lens tube. Perhaps that source is a laminar "beam" that might be close. Somehow the focal length of the parabolic reflector in the S4PAR seems wrong for a beam projector and too small to capture enough of the lamps lumens. As I recall a bp is very inefficient, basically absorbing a large portion of the light and thus the largish reflector and the spherical reflector in front of the lamp.


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## StNic54 (May 7, 2013)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I'd like to see a S4LED without a lens tube. Perhaps that source is a laminar "beam" that might be close. Somehow the focal length of the parabolic reflector in the S4PAR seems wrong for a beam projector and too small to capture enough of the lamps lumens. As I recall a bp is very inefficient, basically absorbing a large portion of the light and thus the largish reflector and the spherical reflector in front of the lamp.



Here's a pic of the beam from a S4 Leko with and without a lens tube


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 7, 2013)

StNic54 said:


> View attachment 9358
> 
> View attachment 9359
> 
> ...



Well, kind of cool like a lava lamp is cool but I guess not very useful alone. Thank you. HPL would be a great lamp for a bp.


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## chausman (May 7, 2013)

I've got some $50 DJ lights that'll do the same thing...


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## z2oo (Jul 15, 2013)

They're here! The S4 LED Cyc has arrived and very unnoticeably, too... I'm surprised no one has said anything here! Also new is a smaller version of the Desire line.
ETC | Source Four® LED CYC
ETC | Desire D22


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## Les (Jul 15, 2013)

I think the industry slang for these lens tubes should be "vacuum cleaner nozzles". 

Or Source Four Squeegee 

It is a little shorter than I thought, so that's good!


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## derekleffew (Jul 15, 2013)

Homely looking thing, isn't it?
Sorry Les, I forgot you already mentioned that:

Les said:


> Wow. Excellent concept, but ugliest thing ever.  ...


.


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## techieman33 (Jul 15, 2013)

I hope all those mirrors aren't glass.


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## STEVETERRY (Jul 15, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> Homely looking thing, isn't it?
> Sorry Les, I forgot you already mentioned that:
> 
> .



But, the audience can't see the cyc pipe--only the results!

ST


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## DavidNorth (Jul 16, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> I hope all those mirrors aren't glass.



They are not glass. Lots of plastic and aluminum.

Do note that some other LED cyc lights do use glass. Of course a lot of light fixtures have used glass for a long time. Is there an application where this would be a problem or is it just that most cyc units don't have glass?

David


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## JChenault (Jul 16, 2013)

I've got to be honest - I'm not sure I see the utility of a fixture to light a ( white) cyc that uses seven colors. Sure there are a few extremely saturated colors you can get, but do you typically need them for a cyc? 

For twice the cost of ( say) an Altman spectra cyc - do I get twice the utility? Somehow I doubt it.


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 16, 2013)

I believe the marketing strategy is as an accessory for your inventory of Source Four LED engines. I could see a new facility loading up on Lustr+ with a selection of lens tubes and some of these. Imagine some time in the future when the current crop of Source Four LEDs has been obsoleted by the new technology. It might be nice to be able retire the old stock to the cyc and extend their usefulness.


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## techieman33 (Jul 16, 2013)

DavidNorth said:


> They are not glass. Lots of plastic and aluminum.
> 
> Do note that some other LED cyc lights do use glass. Of course a lot of light fixtures have used glass for a long time. Is there an application where this would be a problem or is it just that most cyc units don't have glass?
> 
> David



True, most fixtures have glass lenses, and the newer ones have glass reflectors. The problem I could if those were glass is that it's so exposed to the open making it easy for someone to be careless and break it while sitting around in storage. Or someone not paying attention and bringing in the pipe next to them and hitting them, possibly breaking the glass and sending shards raining down. I know my cyc lights get bumped a couple times a year just because of that.


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## SteveB (Jul 16, 2013)

JChenault said:


> I've got to be honest - I'm not sure I see the utility of a fixture to light a ( white) cyc that uses seven colors. Sure there are a few extremely saturated colors you can get, but do you typically need them for a cyc?
> 
> For twice the cost of ( say) an Altman spectra cyc - do I get twice the utility? Somehow I doubt it.



You might find it more useful if the cyc were changed by a road show to a painted drop. Possibly then the extra colors would be needed. 

Having only briefly demo'd a 7 color Selador Vivid R 21" unit and not having time to see how all the 7 colors work, I can't say for certain and I've yet to hear from or read about real world experiences of folks who use RGB. vs. RGBA, vw. RGBW, vs. Selador 7 color on cyc's and painted drops.


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## Footer (Jul 16, 2013)

JChenault said:


> I've got to be honest - I'm not sure I see the utility of a fixture to light a ( white) cyc that uses seven colors. Sure there are a few extremely saturated colors you can get, but do you typically need them for a cyc?
> 
> For twice the cost of ( say) an Altman spectra cyc - do I get twice the utility? Somehow I doubt it.



I am kind of interested to see this thing in action. The utility of having "one fixture to rule them all" is kind of lost on me. Most places I have worked, from presenting houses to road houses leaves their "cyc electric" hung, circuited, and focused 24/7/365 simply because it is too much hassle to strike the fixtures. Added to this thing you have to install the shutter assembly and the barrel to the fixture you really eat up some time before you get that fixture "back". 

My 2 cents having never touched the product, I see this as "multipar 2.0". With ETC finally giving us a Fresnel, I was hoping they would grace us with an actual cyc light. Without touching it I can't say if this is it or not. I would love to hear someone who has lit a 25x50 cyc with these.


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## JohnD (Jul 16, 2013)

Sticking my oar in the water, and with tongue firmly in cheek, isn't this product misnamed? The Source4 is named for the 4 filament coils of the hpl lamp. This doesn't use the hpl lamp but the 7 color led engine so shouldn't it be called the Source7. No clue on what the proper name should be for the Source4 Mini.


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## SteveB (Jul 16, 2013)

JohnD said:


> Sticking my oar in the water, and with tongue firmly in cheek, isn't this product misnamed? The Source4 is named for the 4 filament coils of the hpl lamp. This doesn't use the hpl lamp but the 7 color led engine so shouldn't it be called the Source7. No clue on what the proper name should be for the Source4 Mini.



Sela-cyc-oid


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## techieman33 (Jul 16, 2013)

Footer said:


> I am kind of interested to see this thing in action. The utility of having "one fixture to rule them all" is kind of lost on me. Most places I have worked, from presenting houses to road houses leaves their "cyc electric" hung, circuited, and focused 24/7/365 simply because it is too much hassle to strike the fixtures. Added to this thing you have to install the shutter assembly and the barrel to the fixture you really eat up some time before you get that fixture "back".
> 
> My 2 cents having never touched the product, I see this as "multipar 2.0". With ETC finally giving us a Fresnel, I was hoping they would grace us with an actual cyc light. Without touching it I can't say if this is it or not. I would love to hear someone who has lit a 25x50 cyc with these.



I agree, my cyc lights move 3 times a year. They get moved twice two weeks straight during nutcracker season, and then moved back to their normal position for the rest of the year. As far as swapping out the shutter assembly I was worried about that too, until I looked into it. After looking at the exploded diagram it looks like all you have to do is remove one knob and one bolt, then the whole things comes off the body.


JohnD said:


> Sticking my oar in the water, and with tongue firmly in cheek, isn't this product misnamed? The Source4 is named for the 4 filament coils of the hpl lamp. This doesn't use the hpl lamp but the 7 color led engine so shouldn't it be called the Source7. No clue on what the proper name should be for the Source4 Mini.



What about the Source 4 with a 750w HPL? It's all just marketing speak for name recognition anyway.


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## JohnD (Jul 26, 2013)

Production Advantage now lists this:
ETC S4LEDCYC Source Four LED Cyc Lens
And here is a promo vid from ETC:


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## techieman33 (Jul 26, 2013)

$315 is a little on the expensive side.


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## JohnD (Aug 30, 2013)

Rumor has it that these may be shipping. Has anyone got a demo yet? It would really be great if someone could arrange a shootout with this, the Altman Spectra Cyc and the Phillips PLCyc.


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## DuckJordan (Aug 30, 2013)

We had a couple in for our cycle replacement. They put out some decent color but don't do some colors well... They suffer from the same issue that other leds do.

That said they filled our cycle pretty well shooting out against our strand conventionals. 35'~ feet...from light to floor. We only had two in so could do our full 60 ish feet of cycle would require 6-8 units...


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## sk8rsdad (Aug 30, 2013)

I saw them at CUE and was impressed by the coverage and how easy they are to focus. No fiddling with lenses and eyeballing or using a protractor is likely close enough on the first attempt. We're currently lighting our cyc with Desires. If the Desires are analogous to a PAR, the Source Four LED Cyc would be more like a conventional cyc cell but with less scalloping.

The optics are designed for a 2:1 spacing (2 feet separation for every 1 foot away) so these are a good choice for a retrofit where the cyc light batten is already positioned about 4 feet downstage of the cyclorama. A facility on a budget with a 36 x 24 cyc could get adequate coverage with 4 fixtures although I would probably spec 6 to 8.


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## Dionysus (Jun 6, 2014)

Necropost? Perhaps.

I was wondering if anyone had any further feedback or comparisons on this unit yet? anyone end up buying them or checking them out more?

There are two community theatres I am involved with who would like some cyc lights, one is actively seeking pricing etc, and the other is more tentatively thinking about it. The first has already thought about the Source-4 LED Cyc adapter (does not currently have any LEDs, but suffers from a lack of dimmers, and may eventually expand into more LEDs). They have also tried various other options, including one of the local rental/sales places rented them some microh LED strips that they thought could do the trick (no!! absolutely not, could of told them that!) for a recent show. They have a few lighting people, but most have little outside experience.
Let me tell you, it is a beautiful theatre and I'd really like to see some positive change there.

Good/bad revues or experiences? Cost effective?


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## sk8rsdad (Jun 6, 2014)

I had a demo last week. The adapter is a nice bit of optics work. It provides a nice even coverage on our 24 ft cyc. It was really easy to focus and orders of magnitude easier to focus than our current D40 cyc lights. 

I think it is a good choice for a long term investment in the S4 LED engine. For a relatively small incremental cost the fixture can be used as a profile or a cyc. It would come as no surprise to learn that a Fresnel attachment were in development.


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## JohnD (Jun 6, 2014)

But wait, there's more, has anyone been able to try it out with the Series 2?


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## sk8rsdad (Jun 6, 2014)

Yes. Side by side with the S4 LED Lustr


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## Dionysus (Jun 6, 2014)

Found an article on Stage Directions talking about the Source-4 LED Cyc, *Chauvet Professional C-640FC LED Cyc & Enttec Aleph2 ET*

Wasn't too informative, but much more so than ETC's website which really says next to nothing.

Great to hear that you liked the Source-4 cyc.


> With the LED Cyc light ETC has set out to change the way we think about cyc lighting.
> 
> “Accessorize to maximize” is an often quoted slogan of retail sales and ETC has followed this maxim with the introduction of its LED Cyc light. This ingenious unit is offered as an accessory to ETC’s very popular line of Source Four LED fixtures or “engines” as they are often dubbed. ETC proclaims, “It’s like having a paintbrush right on stage.”
> 
> ...


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## sk8rsdad (Jun 6, 2014)

Back at a keyboard instead of typing with my thumbs.

I am not sure I would purchase the S4 LED Cyc if all I ever wanted to do was light a cyc. It certainly works for the purpose but there are other more cost effective solutions. OTOH, as a facility manager, having a single fixture in inventory that can serve multiple roles is a game changer. It extends the useful life of the fixture. It may also enhance the value of older S4 LED engines on the used market since the pool of likely buyers increases.

FWIW, the information about the S4 LED II on ETC's website is very honest with respect to relative brightness vis-a-vis an incandescent S4 575 and a S4 LED Lustr. Mixing to yellow is downright painful to look upon. The variable colour temperature can make it feel much brighter than the classic Source Four.


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## JChenault (Jun 6, 2014)

At USITT this year they used the fixture to light a number of drops showcasing work by a number of schools. Seemed to do a good job, but they were positioned pretty far from the drop 6 to 8 feet or so. 

If space is an issue take a look at the Altman spectra cyc. Colors are not as intense ( the S4 indigo color cannot be achieved for example ) but for the price a good unit. It also can work well within 3 feet of the cyc.


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## TheTheaterGeek (Jun 7, 2014)

doctrjohn said:


> I understand it was at USITT (though, unfortunately, I was not). One of the ETC folks I chatted with after commented on how little attention it received at the show; I guess everyone was more interested in the Source Four Mini...
> 
> Best,
> John



It was at USITT(as was I),
It was featured as the lighting source for all of the student designed drops and cyc paintings, alas, those were at the far side of the expo and did not receive the attention they deserved. 

I just thought it was a barrel package that affixed to a S4 LED. Is it sold as a stand alone fixture?


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## SteveB (Jun 7, 2014)

It needs an LED light engine, Or "Array" as it states on the website. It mounts to the front of the array.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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