# Everything Master Electrician



## Wolf (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey,

I have a general overview of what a Mater Elec does but I do have several questions (including some questions I _Think_ I know the answers to). Any information on Mater Elec would be appreciated even if its as simple as always have something to write with.


-What design ideas should the Mater Elec purpose (or none unless asked)
- What paper work should the Mater Elec have
-What should the designer write up opposed to the Mater Elec
- Should the Mater Elec be in charge of the crew or just the technical aspect
- What do you expect the Mater Elec to be doing for load-in and performance
- What should the Mater Elec have the assistance (if there is one) do

I know I probably have thought of more but I did not write them down when I thought of them.

Again any information would be appreciated, and thanks in advance.

Wolf


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## Footer (Sep 6, 2008)

Wolf said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have a general overview of what a Mater Elec does but I do have several questions (including some questions I _Think_ I know the answers to). Any information on Mater Elec would be appreciated even if its as simple as always have something to write with.
> 
> ...



First, check the glossary, I believe there is a large entry on this one. Also, is this in the world of education (if so, what level), professional, or community? 

#1 Rule.... YOU ARE NOT THE DESIGNER, DON'T GIVE ANY DESIGN INPUT UNLESS ASKED FOR IT, even then its usually a "How do you guys usually do ________".

The designer should give you a plot, instrument schedule, and channel hookup. You will then take that and add in dimmer numbers and figure out circuiting. You will also be resposible for ordering all color and expendables. The designer does not care how things get done, as long as they call out the channel number the right light turns on in the proper location with the proper color and template. 

You are in charge of crew, the only time the designer should ever talk to the crew is during focus. 

For light hang (electrics load in) the stage is yours. For scenery load in you should be there to make sure nothing happens that could get in the way of lighting or if something does need to move you can move it. Durring show run, some M.E.'s stay on to run the console for the show, some come in for lamp check and go home, some never show up again after the show opens. 

I usually like to have an assistant, makes life much easier. I usually assign them to one thing and let that be their area that I don't have to think about. Usually that involves all color media and/or everything FOH.


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## Wolf (Sep 6, 2008)

Footer4321 said:


> Also, is this in the world of education (if so, what level), professional, or community?



It is education and H.S but this is not a normal H.S. I go to School for Creative and Performing Arts (SCPA) in Cincinnati, Ohio and major in Lighting Design. We pride our selves on doing professional grade work/experience. We are doing are upcoming show at the P&G theatre at the Aronoff Theatre Cincinnati, Ohio for the second year in a row and before that we were at the Taft Theatre. I have worked professionally as well and grew up in theatre and fell everything should be approached as if it was a Broadway production whether it is at school, community theatre, or a well known professional theatre.


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## Footer (Sep 6, 2008)

Wolf said:


> everything should be approached as if it was a Broadway production whether it is at school, community theatre, or a well known professional theatre.



Be careful with that type of statement, many regionals feel that Broadway is the worst part of theatre, not all do, but some. Just an FYI.

I'm a TD at a school very similar to yours. I expect all of the above from my electricians. Right now I am doing most of the design type things because I don't feel the students have the physical stuff solid enough yet. I will be letting them loose by the end of the year. 

I expect my electricians to get their job done. Now, because I am the one with the keys I am at every hang anyway, but I try to let my kids figure it out for themselves. At your level, don't expect to be perfect. Hopefully your instructors will be there with you. Also, who is the designer? If the designer is an upperclassmen you could have some control issues. I try to give all the responsibility to the student in charge and then stand back and make sure everyone follows otherwise the one senior in the room trys to rule. 

Take it slow, ask plenty of questions. I'm sure you will be fine.


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## Serendipity (Sep 6, 2008)

I also go to an arts high school. For almost all of our shows (we have one in a union house, another two there are student MEs and MEs that come from the rental company) the master electricians are students.

The Master Electrician should be given the plot (and hopefully paperwork) from the designer. The ME then handles anything that needs to be purchased or rented. Always keep in contact with the designer, as well as everyone else on the crew who will be assisting you. (Ex: Do you have a lighting supervisor? An ALD or AME?)

When it's light hang, the ME should direct the electricians, keeping track of what has been taken care of already. (Organization is important.) At focus, our MEs do focus lights. During rehearsals and programming, the ME should keep (or be sent, depending) a list of work notes. These could be adjusting shutters, switching color, etc.

Before opening night, the ME is there for chan/dim check, and often leaves before the show. This is assuming the dress rehearsal went well. Then, the duty of lamp check and paperwork goes to the board op (who may be the Master Electrician).

After the show, our MEs assist in strike. As with any position, be nice and efficient.

Yes, always have something to write with. Actually, make it two somethings, and a highlighter!


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## cdub260 (Sep 6, 2008)

Wolf said:


> -What design ideas should the Mater Elec purpose (or none unless asked)



As ME, generally your input in the design process will be minimal at best. Your job is to find a way to do what the LD wants done. Now, there will be times when you're asked by a designer to do something which you simply can't do. Reasons can vary: time, budget, lack of expertise, Fire Marshal says no, etc. When this happens, it is usually appropriate, though not always, for you to present alternatives to the designer. 


Wolf said:


> - What paper work should the Mater Elec have



I'm going to agree with Footer4321 on what paperwork you should have and add to it. You need to keep an accurate inventory of your lighting and effects equipment. You should also keep a maintenance log of any work you have done on your equipment.


Wolf said:


> -What should the designer write up opposed to the Mater Elec



Basically, anything having to do with the lighting design other than the ME's notes on what was done to make it work are the responsibility of the LD, but as ME you are responsible for passing your plot notes on to the LD.


Wolf said:


> - Should the Mater Elec be in charge of the crew or just the technical aspect



Generally the Master Electrician heads the lighting and electrics crew. I do not, as I have no crew to lead.


Wolf said:


> - What do you expect the Mater Elec to be doing for load-in and performance



This will vary depending on where you are working. Personally, when the Pageant is running I slip into the role of Deck Electrician.


Wolf said:


> - What should the Mater Elec have the assistance (if there is one) do



Off hand, I'd say if you have an assistant, have him do whatever he is capable of doing safely. Just don't try to make the assistant do your job for you.


Footer4321 said:


> #1 Rule.... YOU ARE NOT THE DESIGNER, DON'T GIVE ANY DESIGN INPUT UNLESS ASKED FOR IT, even then its usually a "How do you guys usually do ________".



This too will vary from designer to designer. Some will want no input from you at all. Others will want all the advice you can give about working in your space. Most will fall somewhere in between. At the Pageant there are certain aspects of the lighting design that I have free reign on with no input from the designer at all, but we've been working together for nearly a decade, and he trusts my judgment in these areas.


Footer4321 said:


> The designer should give you a plot, instrument schedule, and channel hookup.



I'd be happy if my LD would at least give me a plot. It would make my job a whole lot easier than the make it up as he goes along approach he takes to lighting currently.


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 7, 2008)

The ME is responsible for making sure everything lighting is safe before it flys.

As for organization, a lot of MEs I know use calculator/register tape and mark it with all pertinent hanging info per electric. At hang, they just have to strech them out and tape them to the pipe and the electricians can start the hang (as opposed to measuring out and marking the pipes as you go or just calling it off the plot).


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## MNicolai (Sep 7, 2008)

ruinexplorer said:


> The ME is responsible for making sure everything lighting is safe before it flys.
> 
> As for organization, a lot of MEs I know use calculator/register tape and mark it with all pertinent hanging info per electric. At hang, they just have to strech them out and tape them to the pipe and the electricians can start the hang (as opposed to measuring out and marking the pipes as you go or just calling it off the plot).



I've seen this before. It's a bad idea in my experience. Our TD tried it for a while. Every time we had to restore the rep plot we'd roll out focus tapes on the floor under each lighting position to designate where a light's hot spot should be. It was more a pain than helpful. What we've stayed with though is using packing tape and printed labels to "permanently" mark where lights should be hung and plugged into on each electric, and that works really well. The problem with focus tapes is simply the time it takes to set them up, be it for hot spots or for hang positions. If your crew is unable to read a plot to put lights where they belong in a timely manner, you have a lot more problems than any kind of focus tape will solve.


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## Footer (Sep 7, 2008)

MNicolai said:


> I've seen this before. It's a bad idea in my experience. Our TD tried it for a while. Every time we had to restore the rep plot we'd roll out focus tapes on the floor under each lighting position to designate where a light's hot spot should be. It was more a pain than helpful. What we've stayed with though is using packing tape and printed labels to "permanently" mark where lights should be hung and plugged into on each electric, and that works really well. The problem with focus tapes is simply the time it takes to set them up, be it for hot spots or for hang positions. If your crew is unable to read a plot to put lights where they belong in a timely manner, you have a lot more problems than any kind of focus tape will solve.



Its not a focus tape, its a HANG tape. What you described about is the holy grail, but always fails miserable. Hang tape takes about 2 min to put on a pipe, and if they are correctly made can cut the time it takes to hang a show in half. Chalking pipes works, but it does not give enough info. Hang tapes are the only way to go as far as I am concerned.


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## Footer (Sep 7, 2008)

Charc said:


> If you have permanently marked the lighting positions with every 6" off CL, with a copy of the plot next to the meat racks, the process of hanging will also go pretty quickly.



Yep, hang would be quick. Circuiting on the other hand would be very slow. It takes twice as long to get something plugged in then it does to hang the light.


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## Sean (Sep 7, 2008)

I'll add my opinion.

If you properly prepare the paperwork, color, templates, scrollers, etc, using HANG tapes will cut roughly 1/3 of the time off your hang. ANY method of hanging electrics that involves measuring on the pipe, or any hang with more than 3-4 electricians will be dramatically improved by using the hang tapes.

I'll preface this by saying we DO NOT have a rep plot. Everything is hung per the LD's wishes.

I use 2"x4" printed mailing labels. The infomation on each label is as follows:

Position
Unit number
Instrument type
Accessories
Color
Template
Dimmer
Orientation (SR, SL, etc)
Address (for smart devices)


On each end of the batten I hang a page of information. That includes:

Lineset number
Electric number (1E, 5E, etc)
Weight of equipment (expressed in number of stage weights)
Trim
Mults
Single circuits
data lines (type and gender)
Any important information ("must fly to deck" or "trapped above scenery--short cables are fine")


This system allows me to hand the packet of information to someone else, and they have enough information to hang the position without any input from me. I'm still around to answer questions, deal with other things, etc, but it puts all the information (and JUST the information needed for the task) in the hands of the people doing the work.

Please feel free to PM me, or ask here for more information.

--Sean


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## Sean (Sep 7, 2008)

Charc said:


> Interesting, hmm. Cabling is a PITA, for sure. Do you guys cable as you hang; or hang, then cable? Drop color after hang/cable?
> 
> Running multi can be a pain, I like the idea of of raceways, it makes sense in a good number of situations. Sure, multi is more flexible, but the amount of multi that goes into a fullsize plot is insane, and the amount of time that takes to run, let alone troubleshoot, can be a huge pain, and costly.



Remember, I'm talking about overstage electrics only. Though, I have to say, I really DON'T like raceways in FOH catwalks either. I'd rather have boxes with long pigtails every 10' or so. A continuous raceway often gets in the way of moving equipment around (and is less flexible).

How is multicable more difficult to troubleshoot?

Overstage, raceways are nice and all....until the electric needs to be 1'-0" upstage of the pipe with the raceway. Lets say you have three raceway electrics with thirty circuits each. What do you do when you need 5 electrics with 18 circuits each?


The rough order we do things:

Fly pipe in
Hang tape and tags
Snub/safety off lineset (in case those loading go faster than those on the ground)
Hang lights....start loading weight once most units are on the pipe
Plug units into breakouts and tie to pipe. Twofer, etc as needed
Run mults, tied up in a few places
Run data and clean up ties (adding more as needed)
Test weight/add weight

Color is dropped once all the units are on the pipe. Usually someone goes from pipe to pipe dropping color, then moves on to something else.

Remove tape
Fly out to trim, spike handline.
Fly out past trim....to grid if needed (out of way of scenic load-in)


--Sean


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## Serendipity (Sep 7, 2008)

ruinexplorer said:


> The ME is responsible for making sure everything lighting is safe


Yes, yes, yes.


Charc said:


> Do you guys cable as you hang; or hang, then cable? Drop color after hang/cable?


Hang and cable at the same time, if possible. If we're hanging fixtures we have before the rental dimmer pack (necessary for sidelight, backlight, and footlight in one space on campus) shows up, then it's obviously not possible.
Dropping color can be done any time but normally during hang or before focus. In the large theater, we have to remove rows of seats to get to some lighting positions, which to quote Charc is a "PITA".
I just like to get as much done as possible at once. If I'm already up there, I might as well do it all.


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## David Ashton (Sep 7, 2008)

Are there any Mistress Electricians?


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## Sean (Sep 7, 2008)

allthingstheatre said:


> Are there any Mistress Electricians?



Only if you're naughty.

--Sean


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## Serendipity (Sep 7, 2008)

allthingstheatre said:


> Are there any Mistress Electricians?


"Mistress of Electricity" is what I was credited as on a plot...


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## gafftapegreenia (Sep 7, 2008)

I think there have been some very good points made about the hang on this thread. Allow me to add my own.

A good designer SHOULD consider there space. I might get flak for this, but a lighting designer should not just put a light any freaking where they want and then justify its absolute necessity because "I'm the designer it has to be". look I understand a designers right, but in the end, it makes a person harder to work with, and those reputations stick. The art of lighting design it number one, but a better designer knows what they have to work with. They consider time, budget, space, crew, requirements, the scale of the show and their own experience before creating their design. Look, if the raceway only has 12 circuits, try not to demand too many more than that. Now, that doesn't mean that I as ME won't do my darndest to execute a designers demands, but a little consideration from a designer can do wonders to help the unity between designer and crew. What am I saying here? BE A COLLABORATOR. Sometimes I don't think we emphasize the importance of collaboration on this board. No matter what your role, you are part of a production and/or design TEAM. 

When I design, I want a creative ME, one that knows their business, knows their conventions, but also one who can think creatively to figure out dense placement, limited ciruiting, patching, etc. I want an ME that will ask questions for clarity, but NOT one who will make design decision on their own. 

Also I hope this post gets fully read instead of just skimmed and responded to without full understand. However, if you need clarification, I'll do my best to elaborate my position.


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## Serendipity (Sep 7, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> I think there have been some very good points made about the hang on this thread. Allow me to add my own.
> 
> A good designer SHOULD consider there space. I might get flak for this, but a lighting designer should not just put a light any freaking where they want and then justify its absolute necessity because "I'm the designer it has to be". look I understand a designers right, but in the end, it makes a person harder to work with, and those reputations stick. The art of lighting design it number one, but a better designer knows what they have to work with. They consider time, budget, space, crew, requirements, the scale of the show and their own experience before creating their design. Look, if the raceway only has 12 circuits, try not to demand too many more than that. Now, that doesn't mean that I as ME won't do my darndest to execute a designers demands, but a little consideration from a designer can do wonders to help the unity between designer and crew. What am I saying here? BE A COLLABORATOR. Sometimes I don't think we emphasize the importance of collaboration on this board. No matter what your role, you are part of a production and/or design TEAM.
> 
> ...



I agree. It's really important to be a part of a design team. (And also a whole theater team. As we discussed as a tangent in this thread, it's difficult to design lights without collaboration from other departments too.)

It doesn't matter if you know 98% of everything about being a Master Electrician, if you're a nightmare to work with, then that's it.


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## Sean (Sep 8, 2008)

Wolf said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have a general overview of what a Mater Elec does but I do have several questions (including some questions I _Think_ I know the answers to). Any information on Mater Elec would be appreciated even if its as simple as always have something to write with.
> 
> ...



So, Wolf, did we answer your questions yet?

--Sean


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## derekleffew (Sep 8, 2008)

MNicolai said:


> I've seen this before. It's a bad idea in my experience. Our TD tried it for a while. Every time we had to restore the rep plot we'd roll out focus tapes on the floor under each lighting position to designate where a light's hot spot should be. It was more a pain than helpful. ...The problem with focus tapes is simply the time it takes to set them up, be it for hot spots or for hang positions. ...


Yes, "hang tape," not "focus tape."

For a House Plot, that is always being restored, consider a "Focus Cloth." Made of medium canvas or duck, downstage edge is the plasterline, to a few feet upstage of one's last electric, and wing to wing. I've seen touring shows use a groundcloth such as this, and it's remarkable. The only trick is to make sure the fixtures are hung in exactly the same place (using HANG tapes), and the electrics are exactly 6' (or whatever) off the deck, every time. Magic-marker the outline, including shutter cuts, write the CH# and Color# in the middle. For Fresnels, usually an inner and outer edge is drawn, as well as a notation "3/4 flood, 1/4 spot" or whatever. The ones I've seen were painted black and paint pen was used, so they could easily be "edited," for instance if a special was moved. 

Do touring "Bus&Truck" type shows still use these?


Serendipity said:


> I agree. It's really important to be a part of a design team. ...


An M.E. is part of a Production Team, but rarely considered a part of the *Design* Team.


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## MNicolai (Sep 8, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Yes, "hang tape," not "focus tape."
> 
> For a House Plot, that is always being restored, consider a "Focus Cloth." Made of medium canvas or duck, downstage edge is the plasterline, to a few feet upstage of one's last electric, and wing to wing. I've seen touring shows use a groundcloth such as this, and it's remarkable. The only trick is to make sure the fixtures are hung in exactly the same place (using focus tapes), and the electrics are exactly 6' (or whatever) off the deck, every time. Magic-marker the outline, including shutter cuts, write the CH# and Color# in the middle. For Fresnels, usually an inner and outer edge is drawn, as well as a notation "3/4 flood, 1/4 spot" or whatever. The ones I've seen were painted black and paint pen was used, so they could easily be "edited," for instance if a special was moved.
> 
> ...




See, our fatal flaw was using a roll of paper. It was some kind of plumber's "tape" if I recall. We had problems with it tearing and such. Kind of ruined my entire focus-tape-experience. The idea of cloth never came across my mind though; I've already passed the idea of using cloth on to my ATD.


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## derekleffew (Sep 8, 2008)

MNicolai said:


> See, our fatal flaw was using a roll of paper. It was some kind of plumber's "tape" if I recall. We had problems with it tearing and such. Kind of ruined my entire focus-tape-experience. The idea of cloth never came across my mind though; I've already passed the idea of using cloth on to my ATD.


Again, there's no such thing (or should be no such thing) as a "focus tape." For *hang* tapes: adding machine tape tears too easily; paper drywall tape is good; unmarked yellow plastic "police line-do not cross" is okay, but it stretches. At least one CB member uses jute webbing with grommets and tieline, and gaffer's tape upon which to write.

I like creating yoke labels by exporting from Lightwright into Word, and printing one for the yoke and a duplicate for the Hang Tape. That way everything one could possibly want to know about a fixture is there on the hang tape. If fixtures and cable are prepped in the shop, the M.E. hardly needs to be present for the hang.

BTW, "plumbers tape" is this:



Either of galvanized or stainless steel. Has a number of uses, but generally isn't appropriate in the hanging of lighting fixtures. Keep it next to the *baling wire*.


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## MNicolai (Sep 8, 2008)

I call it focus tape, because it's tape, upon which the lights are shined at and focused to, and it's what everyone at the venue learned to call it when the ATD first set the system up, therefore I call it that out of habit. That said, I apologize if I'm blazingly wrong.


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## len (Sep 8, 2008)

The job description for theater is so different from what I know, yet there are some similarities.


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## Footer (Sep 8, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Do touring "Bus&Truck" type shows still use these?



I have not seen one in awhile, doesn't mean they aren't out there though. For most of the show I have done recently that are using in house lighting the head elec just goes up and runs the electrics. I have seen these used with focus points for movers though.


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## SteveB (Sep 8, 2008)

Only time in the past 15 years I've seen anyone use a focus tape - I.E., two strips of webbing with foot marks, one laid @ P/L and running L & R of C/L, as well as 2nd running US/DS of P/L, is the Acting Company, whose lighting supervisor had NO associated focus chart paperwork. I presume he had it all in his head, even though the plot was not the same theater to theater. Go figure.

Steve B.


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## derekleffew (Sep 8, 2008)

Ah, SteveB, that's a different sort of focus tape. I, in fact, have a set of those. But they are just glorified tape measures, with numbers large enough to read while standing. The kind of focus tape MNicolai appears to be referring has focus information on it, which I can't see working very well unless it's six feet or wider, under each electric.

My question was (or should have been): 
"Do legit Touring shows use a full stage 'Focus Ground Cloth,' in order to eliminate having to focus the conventional units at trim?"  ​The practice may be dying due to so many productions using exclusively movers overhead. Seems like it could work in your venue, SteveB.


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## SteveB (Sep 8, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Ah, SteveB, that's a different sort of focus tape. I, in fact, have a set of those. But they are just glorified tape measures, with numbers large enough to read while standing. The kind of focus tape MNicolai appears to be referring has focus information on it, which I can't see working very well unless it's six feet or wider, under each electric.
> 
> My question was (or should have been):
> "Do legit Touring shows use a full stage 'Focus Ground Cloth,' in order to eliminate having to focus the conventional units at trim?"  ​The practice may be dying due to so many productions using exclusively movers overhead. Seems like it could work in your venue, SteveB.



On all the larger musicals we've had the past few years, the tour electrics are pre-hung mixed ML's and S4's (usually 77volt dimmer doubled stuff) of assorted types, usually with scrollers, all in box trusses. 

The electricians and assistants focus conventionals without use of any focus tape or cloths, mostly as they've been with the show a few weeks and know it cold.

Our method to direct the electrics crew as to what goes where on the house system, is an 11x17 print version of the Vectorworks plot - see 2 attachments, one as an example of a restore to rep hang (but no rep color or focus) as well as a change of rep to a particular show's requirements. I simply tape the electric hang sheet to the raceway on the US side of the pipe. 

These are pretty simple to generate, it's a separate drawing from the main plot, but a simple cut and past-in-place of ea. position, then Rotate and Flip vertical and horizontal yields a plot per electric that is oriented towards where the electricians are standing - US of the electric. The bulk of the drawing is saved and re-used, with only the units and spacing needing to be modified - though I'm going to change to a space bar that's got hash marks at 1ft. centers - which is how all our pipes are painted.

As the electrics have permanent circuited raceway, it's about an hour with 4 crew to do a move of stuff, maybe 2-3 hrs. to do a complete re-hang with nothing on the pipes or electrics. The elec's hang and cable and then either have me test ea. position by dimmer or they do it themselves if I'm trouble shooting elsewhere. 

Once all that we can hang is up and tested, the electric counterweights loaded, I then do a complete channel check with the RFU - having pre-loaded the patch to Emphasis via a thumb drive. The patch file is generated in Emphasis Off-Line and is itself an import of the Lightwright data. 

Once the channel check is complete and all is working, we then load color and gobo's by system, using the master color coded plot.

Note that this is a PARTICULAR method of working that may not be applicable to other spaces.

EDIT: Uploads not working !.

Steve B.


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## SteveB (Sep 8, 2008)

Trying the attachment one-by-one, having (I think) figured out what's going on with attachments.

SB

EDIT: Nope !


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## Wolf (Sep 8, 2008)

Sean said:


> So, Wolf, did we answer your questions yet?
> 
> --Sean



Yes for the most part, even though seems this is a thread became about "hang tape" now but thats fine (still useful info though). I know that I will run into challenges while on shows but I feel that im capable of handling them. And if I run into something I need help with my lighting instructor (Jeff New) will be there and the M.E. of the Aronoff (Tommy Lane (I think I spelled his last name right)) will be there and the wont let me permanently screw something up (but I know they will let me do something to let me learn hands on even if its wrong). But overall I feel confident I can do it. 

Thank you all 

and more information would be appreciated, you all have great advice.


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## MNicolai (Sep 8, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Ah, SteveB, that's a different sort of focus tape. I, in fact, have a set of those. But they are just glorified tape measures, with numbers large enough to read while standing. The kind of focus tape MNicolai appears to be referring has focus information on it, which I can't see working very well unless it's six feet or wider, under each electric.
> 
> My question was (or should have been):
> "Do legit Touring shows use a full stage 'Focus Ground Cloth,' in order to eliminate having to focus the conventional units at trim?"  ​The practice may be dying due to so many productions using exclusively movers overhead. Seems like it could work in your venue, SteveB.



Actually, the tape was 4" wide, and merely to place the hot spot of each light in our rep plot. What we would do is focus high sides and down lighting with it, and mark down the spot/flood info for each fresnel, and then when we flew out of trim height, the hope was that we only have to make minor changes such as hit the bench, shutter off the legs, etc. It's by no means a plan that will save you buckets of time, but if it's an extra 30-45 minutes we don't need to waste sending someone up in a Genie to start from scratch with each and every conventional, I'm all for it.


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## DaveySimps (Sep 8, 2008)

I use to work in a VERY busy touring house (6-7 years ago) that did over 120 shows a year. I worked there three years, and never once saw someone use a "focus ground cloth".


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## TimOlson (Sep 11, 2008)

Note: I'm trying this because my browser give me an error message when I try to do the quoted reply



Wolf said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have a general overview of what a Mater Elec does but I do have several questions (including some questions I _Think_ I know the answers to). Any information on Mater Elec would be appreciated even if its as simple as always have something to write with.
> 
> ...


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## TimOlson (Sep 11, 2008)

"Overstage, raceways are nice and all....until the electric needs to be 1'-0" upstage of the pipe with the raceway. Lets say you have three raceway electrics with thirty circuits each. What do you do when you need 5 electrics with 18 circuits each?"

run more multi

multi's much easier to troubleshoot than a raceway. it's in the open and you don't have to dig around in premises wiring. you also know where both ends are, and in a typical raceway the wire is pulled through conduit to the dimmer closet - usually a LOOONG way away.

peace, Tim O


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## Serendipity (Sep 11, 2008)

TimOlson said:


> "Overstage, raceways are nice and all....until the electric needs to be 1'-0" upstage of the pipe with the raceway. Lets say you have three raceway electrics with thirty circuits each. What do you do when you need 5 electrics with 18 circuits each?"
> 
> run more multi
> 
> ...



I agree for electrics, but what about a grid? Our black box has a grid with raceways, and I'm really fond of them. They haven't had to be troubleshot ever, and it's much more flexible than running multi (as the dimmers are a long way away like you said).


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## cdub260 (Sep 11, 2008)

TimOlson said:


> "Overstage, raceways are nice and all....until the electric needs to be 1'-0" upstage of the pipe with the raceway. Lets say you have three raceway electrics with thirty circuits each. What do you do when you need 5 electrics with 18 circuits each?"
> 
> run more multi
> 
> ...



I have both set-ups at the Pageant. Three of my electrics have permanent raceways. The rest are fed by several six circuit drop boxes which move from batten to batten depending on where I need to hang my lights.

I like the raceways because I don't have to run much cable on those Electrics, but I also like the drop boxes because they provide a high degree of flexibility to my lighting circuit distribution.

I have not, however had any more difficulty troubleshooting one over the other. Both set-ups have been very reliable, requiring only occasional, minor repairs.


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## TimOlson (Sep 11, 2008)

Hello Serendipity, if you've maxed out your installed system and need more power I'm assuning a touring style dimmer like an ETC sensor rack will be brought in. there's usually 3 phase power SL or SR in most theaters nowadays, so even if you have to run from the deck all the way up to the grid and back, that's quite reasonable compared to normal uses of Multi, and very easy as well. 

if you have plenty of dimming, but not where you want it, you can use multi to move circuits around. connect a fan-in to the unused outlets, run the multi, pop a fanout where you need it, and there you go. 

I realize some houses have a firewall between the stage and the house -- and I know a lot of them have a hole punched through somewhere usually right next to the catwalk. so it can be problematical to use circuits out above the house for stage - in which case you go for a x-rented rack for the show.

Raceways ARE cool and convenient -- until you have to fix them.

peace, Tim O


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 17, 2008)

I think MNicolai would benefit from Derek's suggestion of a focus cloth (not focus tape) with the use of a hang tape (not focus tape). I think I have only seen one touring production use a focus cloth in the past 15 years. Besides the increase in the use of movers (where they only need focus points which are as inconspicuous as any other spike mark), the competition for access to the deck during load in makes them impractible. I was often helping focus many of the electrics while the carps were finishing some aspect of the set and the rest of the electricians were still circuiting.


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## bdkdesigns (Sep 17, 2008)

> I have both set-ups at the Pageant. Three of my electrics have permanent raceways. The rest are fed by several six circuit drop boxes which move from batten to batten depending on where I need to hang my lights.



We have this same set up with the exception of having 5 electrics, one of which is upstage for Cyc Lights. So far, the cyc light position has proved to be in an ideal location because it has worked perfectly without having to use drop boxes. The Cyc position itself has moved, but the electrics position has been perfect every time.

Also, I do believe that the Montana Rep manually focuses at each venue without the use of a focus cloth on their national tour. I'll be a little more involved this year as the assistant designer (not touring though) so I guess I'll find out for sure. We do not have any movers in our rig either and always seem to have things ready in time. As mentioned previously, you do it enough times and it become second nature.


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## Shawncfer (Sep 18, 2011)

*First time MEing in a new theater*

So a lady who I've worked for is designing a show at a theater down in San Antonio. And she asked me to be her ME. She cleared it with the production manager and everything so it's official now. 

Well, I've been an ME at my university before but never an ME anywhere else. And I've been an electrician at a couple different theaters as well. But this will be my first time MEing outside of my university, and also the first time I've ever even been to this theater. Needless to say, I'm a little nervous. I know I'm going to have a crew of overhire electricians, but I have no idea how many, I wont get the plot til Wednesday. And I have no idea what to expect. I told the LD that I would love to do the job but told her I'd never ME'd outside of the university before, and she insisted that I would be okay in this. So does anyone have any advice to maybe make me feel better? Any experience going into a new venue like this? Not knowing any of their stock or what they've ordered or anything?
Like I said, I'll get the paperwork and plot on Wednesday. We start the load in process Friday morning. I have to be at the theater at 8 but the crew isn't called til 10, so I'm hoping that will give me sometime to figure things out!


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## derekleffew (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*


Shawncfer said:


> ...So does anyone have any advice to maybe make me feel better? Any experience going into a new venue like this? Not knowing any of their stock or what they've ordered or anything? ...



Has the designer designed at this new, to you, venue previously?
Does the venue have a house electrician or TD who knows the facility and its idiosyncrasies?
Who is handling the shop order, if applicable, and the expendables order?
You have to trust that whoever engaged the overhire electricians made correct estimations of time required to complete tasks with adequately skilled personnel.
Will you be the LBO also?


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## Shawncfer (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*

"Has the designer designed at this new, to you, venue previously?"
To be honest, I have no idea. I think so, but Im not sure.

"Does the venue have a house electrician or TD who knows the facility and its idiosyncrasies?"
It has a TD who I have not yet talked to, but who is suppose to get in contact with me tomorrow.

"Who is handling the shop order, if applicable, and the expendables order?"
From what the LD told me earlier, they have everthing in stock. I don't know if that means that the gels are already cut and used, or if they ordered brand new sheets already for this show or what.

"Will you be the LBO also?"
I will not. They're hiring a separate person to program and run.

I know I'm not very helpful with this. But I just got the call today asking me to do it. The person that originally had the job had dropped out, or was fired, or whatever. And he is/was the regular ME for the venue. But I wasn't the original ME for the show. As far as I know, all I'm doing is taking the plot, and getting the crew to hang the plot. Im just more afraid that the crew will be older men and women who have a problem listening to a college kid who just got thrown into this job. And especially if theyve worked at this venue before, and know more about whats what (in the venue) than I do.


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## avkid (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*


Shawncfer said:


> Im just more afraid that the crew will be older men and women who have a problem listening to a college kid who just got thrown into this job. And especially if theyve worked at this venue before, and know more about whats what (in the venue) than I do.


 This is a situation I am quite familiar with, being a crew chief or in a management position with a large age difference. The most important thing is being self confident, but at the same time not acting you're the best thing since sliced bread.
There's a fine line between being viewed as a professional or a pack animal.


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## ElectroCarp (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*

A thing that might be helpful is when you go in at 8 (or if you can get in on an earlier day) just walk around, turn stuff on, see what they have etc. It should help a good deal to have that in your mind for when your thinking about crew assignments during calls. Also if they have dimmers in weird positions it helps to be able to know where they are when youre deciding where your cable runs will go. Hope it goes well!


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## mstaylor (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*

A couple of things. Are you hanging from scratch or modifying a rep plot? Is the designer going to be on site to answer questions, usually you would have the plot more than two days to familiarize yourself. When running a crew that you don't know, especially if they are older or more experienced than you, is to remember the golden rule. Treat them like you would want to be treated until they give you a reason not to. If you are modifying a rep plot, try checking the internet and see if they have information of what is there or at least stage layout, load-in areas and anything else that will help ahead of time.


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## rochem (Sep 19, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*

Try to find out what kind of circuiting they have. Are there dedicated electrics with raceways? Drop boxes located throughout the theatre? Mult runs to an offstage dimmer room? Something else? That's really going to be the biggest determining factor in what your workload is like. If you have raceways, your hang MIGHT be very easy, assuming the designer has designed with these constraints in mind. Or alternatively, it might be a horrible day if you have to marry two pipes together and jump every circuit off the raceway to another pipe. If you have mults or drop boxes, you just need to think intelligently about where you want to place them to maximize efficiency with cabling. Do you need to build any positions, like booms or specific electric placements? I know you don't get the plot until late, but maybe you could talk to the designer about getting a "rough plot" a few days earlier - just something that will give you a basic idea about what positions you'll be using, how many instruments you'll need, and will let you head off any potential problems before the final plot comes in.


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## PeterBuchin (Sep 22, 2011)

*Re: First time MEing in a new theater*

It's gonna be fine, Shawn.

I was in this exact same situation once before. 

Think about what might go through the mind of one of the stagehands. "Oh, my buddy <fired guy> isn't around - I guess this here college boy must've figured our a way to get his job. ****ed if I'm gonna give him the time of day." ...and then he starts talking about it behind your back with everyone else when he should be working. If that happens, you're screwed, blued, and tattooed.

What I'd do at 10AM Friday is call everyone together and address the situation head on. Something like, "Hi, my name's Shawn. I'm a student over at the U. I know a lot of you were expecting <fired person> but, for whatever reason (and I don't know that reason,) he is not here. I was just called in on Monday, after <fired guy> was no longer an employee. I've never worked here before so I'm asking for your help in making this go as smoothly as possible." Short and to the point. Their buddy is gone, it isn't your fault, and you have no information as to why he's gone. Talking about it brings it out into the open and will end all speculation and possible blame. It'll give them all the opportunity to treat you with respect because you are treating them with respect.

And you *should* ask for their help. "Who knows how to tie-in/ route cable from here to there/ how the board works." You don't know this venue and many of them do. When an obviously non-college educated person used to show me a handy shortcut I'd say, "Hey, that wasn't on page 87 of my textbook. Thanks!" 

Rely on your resources - your crew, the house TD, the LD. It'll go nicely and you'll be furthering not only your education but your reputation as well.


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## Shawncfer (Sep 23, 2011)

Thanks Everyone for all the advice! Sorry I haven't been able to reply lately, I've been super busy with school (this drafting class is kicking my butt :neutral.

Just to give you a little update on the situation, I talked to the TD, asked a bunch of questions, found out a bunch of answers, and feel pretty confident. Unfortunately, a couple of things have changed the past few days making it a little more confusing, but I still feel like I have a handle on things. Apparently the LD and the Director got in a huge argument, LD quit, and director found a new LD. Which, with load in happening tomorrow, and tech in a couple days, I think is pretty crazy. This isn't exactly a small production, and for them to bring in a new LD last minute like this bobbles my mind. But any who, he doesn't have time to draft up a plot or anything, but, the house already has a rep plot thats hung. He made some changes to it, moving around lights here and there, and shifting a pipe with drop boxes upstage a couple pipes. So moving all the lights and boxes up. On top of that, it has all the gels he wants and Ill have to order those and gobos and stuff tomorrow. I have a crew of 5. One board op, and 4 electricians to hang/focus. One of which will also be a Deck Elec for the show. It also turns out that all the crew is IA, with whom I have worked a couple ins/outs with, so I actually know 2 of the guys. 

So thanks guys for everything! I really appreciate all the help.


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## hemi392 (Sep 23, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> Thanks Everyone for all the advice! Sorry I haven't been able to reply lately, I've been super busy with school (this drafting class is kicking my butt :neutral.
> 
> Just to give you a little update on the situation, I talked to the TD, asked a bunch of questions, found out a bunch of answers, and feel pretty confident. Unfortunately, a couple of things have changed the past few days making it a little more confusing, but I still feel like I have a handle on things. Apparently the LD and the Director got in a huge argument, LD quit, and director found a new LD. Which, with load in happening tomorrow, and tech in a couple days, I think is pretty crazy. This isn't exactly a small production, and for them to bring in a new LD last minute like this bobbles my mind. But any who, he doesn't have time to draft up a plot or anything, but, the house already has a rep plot thats hung. He made some changes to it, moving around lights here and there, and shifting a pipe with drop boxes upstage a couple pipes. So moving all the lights and boxes up. On top of that, it has all the gels he wants and Ill have to order those and gobos and stuff tomorrow. I have a crew of 5. One board op, and 4 electricians to hang/focus. One of which will also be a Deck Elec for the show. It also turns out that all the crew is IA, with whom I have worked a couple ins/outs with, so I actually know 2 of the guys.
> 
> So thanks guys for everything! I really appreciate all the help.


 And remember, unless you are a renowned experienced Jean Rosenthal level LD you are going to be beholden to the director. They usually have some idea of what their production should look like. I've worked with enough equity playwrights and directors to know that they always have some tweak or some effect they want put in. No sense in antagonizing the director. You just may establish a long lasting relationship.


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## soundman (Sep 25, 2011)

Shawncfer said:


> . It also turns out that all the crew is IA, with whom I have worked a couple ins/outs with, so I actually know 2 of the guys.



If the local is pretty strict on breaks keep that in mind. It would not be a good use of time to send a few guys into a catwalk for a 30 minute project 15 minutes before break because you will waste so much time in transit better to have a few 'make work' projects to fill in the gaps if they knock out a task quicker than planned.


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## jstandfast (Sep 25, 2011)

Yeah, in general in situations like yours, it's good policy to hunt down the shop steward at the top of the call and get the skinny on breaks and the
last ditch stuff like: can you you swing lunch breaks so sound has quiet time while rest of the gang is at lunch?


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