# Liner for grand needed?



## NHStech (Sep 25, 2015)

Friends,
In what is a new endeavor for me, I am getting quotes for a new grand curtain and teaser. Over the summer, 1/2 of one of the panels fell due to dry rot. 

I have two quotes. Both use 25oz FR memorable velour. However, one quote includes a liner which is "heavy weight Ranger Cloth FR color black." The claim is it will add life to the curtain and help protect it. It adds about another $2600 to the quote. My grand is a traveler about 51' wide, 22 ft high. 

My question: Is the liner worth the expense? I go to about 5 or 6 other theaters in the area and I have never seen a liner like that. Is this type of liner common place and I just don't know it? My operations manager is willing to go for the extra $ for the liner, but I don't want to spend my school district's money like that (we need other drapes replaced as well) if it really isn't needed. 

Would love to hear thoughts on this. Thank you.


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## Lextech (Sep 25, 2015)

My main and teaser are lined. I think they are useful in situations like mine where I have very tight spacing and they rub each other. If they were not lined I think I would have problems.


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## Colin (Sep 25, 2015)

For a traveler I would go with IFR synthetic, unlined. For one thing, if hand-operated, it'll be easier to pull without the additional weight of liner. Also would gather more tightly offstage, which could be advantageous. Might even result in savings on hardware due to less weight. Lined is more durable, sure, but worth it?

On the other hand, if it were venetian or other style that has draw lines and guide lines that result in localized pulling/gathering, I would expect the lining to increase the life of the curtain enough to offset the cost, especially if natural fiber that will rot (but again, IFR synthetic pays off in flame-retardant re-treatment savings and durability). I have a 12 year old unlined natural fiber venetian that needed its edges reinforced with webbing last year due to tearing around where the guide rings attach, which is also where the curtain folds as it gathers on the way out.


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## JohnD (Sep 25, 2015)

Have you spent a lot of time researching? Were the two quotes from local companies? Take a look at these companies:
http://www.sewwhatinc.com/description_stage.php
http://bellatex.com/how-to-buy-stage-curtains/
http://www.rosebrand.com/fabric-stage-curtains-backdrops/stage-curtains-101.aspx
Have you considered the cost of re-treating these?


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## Footer (Sep 25, 2015)

GO IFR. ONLY IFR. 

Mine is lined. Helps with bleed a bit as well.


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## NHStech (Sep 25, 2015)

JohnD said:


> Have you spend a lot of time researching? Were the two quotes from local companies? Take a look at these companies:
> http://www.sewwhatinc.com/description_stage.php
> http://bellatex.com/how-to-buy-stage-curtains/
> http://www.rosebrand.com/fabric-stage-curtains-backdrops/stage-curtains-101.aspx
> Have you considered the cost of re-treating these?


I have tried to research, but have not come up with much, which is one reason I have come to everyone here. This is where I come to when I don't know where else to go. I will look at these resources. Thank you. Another thing regarding cost is that ALL my drapes need replacing. So a liner for the grand is $2600 less to spend on other needs. I was just trying to gauge exactly how important or common one is.


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## NHStech (Sep 25, 2015)

As John D. mentioned, one thing I have not considered the retreating cost. By retreating, I assume you are speaking of flame retardance? Colin mentioned IFR is cheaper when considering retreatment. I just "googled" FR and IFR, and found a blog post from rosebrand (http://blog.rosebrand.com/post/2010...rence-between-FR-IFR-DFR-and-NFR-Fabrics.aspx) about the differences. Am I correct in stating that if I get IFR, I would not have to treat the drape periodically, whereas with FR, I would?


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## Robert (Sep 25, 2015)

IFR is inherently flame retardant for the life of the fabric and does not require re-treatment. Since it is synthetic it does not dry rot. 

FR fabrics are required to be retreated to maintain its flame retardant characteristics. These fabrics are subject to dry rot.

IFR fabrics have come under some scrutiny as dust accumulation on the surface of the fabric (as it does on all curtains) can sustain combustion. Common practice is to develop a plan to clean or shake the dust off periodically.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 25, 2015)

For a high school, hard to imagine that there is any reason to not get ifr. A little more expensive initially but over the life, a sure savings. Light bleeding through is a little subjective, but it seems the 24 ounce ifr - charisma - has changed a little and may not be as opaque as it once was. We are probably specifying the 32 ounce in the future, unlined.

Adding to those mentioned above, I like Stage Decoration (I think www.stagedec.com) as well as Rosebrand.


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## AudJ (Sep 26, 2015)

We just went from a lined velour to an unlined IFR. I was initially concerned not about light bleed, but also sound as we do a lot of changes behind the drape as choral portions are performed in front of it.

In our case, the light bleed is not an issue, and the sound bleed is slightly more, but still fine. The thing I noticed most was the lighter drape catching a lot of air as it travels or flies in, so our tolerance with spiking is a lot wider now.


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## Footer (Sep 26, 2015)

NHStech said:


> As John D. mentioned, one thing I have not considered the retreating cost. By retreating, I assume you are speaking of flame retardance? Colin mentioned IFR is cheaper when considering retreatment. I just "googled" FR and IFR, and found a blog post from rosebrand (http://blog.rosebrand.com/post/2010...rence-between-FR-IFR-DFR-and-NFR-Fabrics.aspx) about the differences. Am I correct in stating that if I get IFR, I would not have to treat the drape periodically, whereas with FR, I would?



FR goods require you to re-treat them every 5 years. IFR goods simply require a good vaccuming to get the dust off every so often. The only thing that can actually burn on IFR goods is the particle build up over time. I just went IFR across the board in both of my rooms. Will save 18k in treating cost every 5 years. Well worth it. Also, treating goods can cause your goods to wear and shrink.


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## venuetech (Sep 26, 2015)

AudJ said:


> The thing I noticed most was the lighter drape catching a lot of air as it travels or flies in,


The bottom of the liner should be loosely attached to the bottom of the drape to prevent this from happening. I have seen it done about once every panel width with a stout thread 2 or three inches long, so it allows a small bit air to catch but will not billow.
This attachment is one of the first things to fail on an aging curtain. You will likely find the broken threads when you inspect the bottom hem of the liner.

I would go with a liner, this curtain will be there for the next twenty years. Or step up the weight on the velour if you want no lining. 
I think the lining protectets the velour as well as helping with light bleed


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## venuetech (Sep 26, 2015)

Be sure to get a generous turn-back at the overlapping edge of the tabs.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 26, 2015)

venuetech said:


> Be sure to get a generous turn-back at the overlapping edge of the tabs.


We do full panel turn backs both edges so halves can be reversed if needed for blemishes, etc. We also do removable dust ruffles as well - Velcro attached - and supply one extra.


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## AudJ (Sep 26, 2015)

venuetech said:


> The bottom of the liner should be loosely attached to the bottom of the drape to prevent this from happening.


 Our new IFR drape is not lined, which seems to catch air more than our old lined drape. To us it is not a big deal, but I am sure there are situations where that might be a consideration.


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## tomthetechie (Oct 12, 2015)

Avora Lining from rosebrand is cheaper than the ranger cloth. Travelers generally won't get liners due to weight and cost. IFR is definitely the way to go.

For nicer curtains we like the Prestige fabric though we will do Marvel 21oz, memorable 25 oz, or Encore 22 oz. Encore is probably the most popular in my region. It seems to hit at about the right price point for most high schools. From there if possible we stick to Encore but if the budget is super tight we will drop to Commando cloth/Duvatyne . I would suggest looking at how many of your curtains need replacement and seeing if they can pull of a full swap out. I look at it like relamping fixtures, in an ideal world, you would relamp all of them at once to keep color temperature the same. In this case, all of your blacks/colored fabrics would match and have a similar lifespans. Now if redipping your curtains is an option I would say go for it if you have nicer curtains.


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