# Footwear



## NCLights (Sep 21, 2003)

Hey all, I'm new here. I guess before I get to the point I'll let you know about me., I'm in Connecticut, been doing lighting and tech work since October '02, and loving it. I quickly became the LD's right-hand man [mind you he, legendly, has been doing lightly since 2nd grade when he got a bunch of overhead projectors together for a school show...Anyway...

What do you all think about footwear for work. I have been loving my Timberland boots, and was considering getting some Red Wings, my current one's have steel-toes. I have heard some stories about them causing amputation, but I'm still unsure over them. Regardless, I like the feel of a nice sturdy pair of boots over my sneakers when I'm working. Any other opinions?


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## ship (Sep 21, 2003)

Depends upon what you are doing. I'm not around things much that require steel tips and they do get heavy. On the other hand, I have become a big fan of mountain climbing/hiking boots similar to yours, except that they are as light weight as possible as something I look for. They also have a steel or space age insole support to keep the foot from bending when climbing. I find such a plate useful for standing on ladders.


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## wolf825 (Sep 21, 2003)

NCLights said:


> Hey all, I'm new here. I guess before I get to the point I'll let you know about me., I'm in Connecticut, been doing lighting and tech work since October '02, and loving it. I quickly became the LD's right-hand man [mind you he, legendly, has been doing lightly since 2nd grade when he got a bunch of overhead projectors together for a school show...Anyway...
> 
> What do you all think about footwear for work. I have been loving my Timberland boots, and was considering getting some Red Wings, my current one's have steel-toes. I have heard some stories about them causing amputation, but I'm still unsure over them. Regardless, I like the feel of a nice sturdy pair of boots over my sneakers when I'm working. Any other opinions?



Hiya, 

Unless you are going to have your foot run over by something heavy like a car, I wouldn't worry about steel toes amputating your tootsies. They are great and they WILL save your feet in the long run. You basically want a good footwear that will do two things--be durable for getting run over and hit by roadcases and anything else in a theater. AND you want it to be able to have GOOD ankle support cause when you get hit by a box or a set--it will be at ankle height. So a good cover over your ankles and some good support would be wonderful to have. Low cut shoes expose your ankles to bangs and do not support you should your foot get twisted..and nothing sucks more then a bruised ankle that has no support. I personally like combat style boots, steel toes are an option..but they HAVE to be comfortable and not rub your feet into blisters. Timberlands are good, red wings and many hiking boots too, as they give great ankle support and cushion. But you have to try out different boot styles to find one that is comfy. Steel toes is an option--on a set-construction it is helpful to have steel toes, but it is a personal choice. I would not worry about amputations with steel toes..this industry is NOT that hazardous...things falling from overhead are more of a worry IMO. 

hope this helps... 
-wolf


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## ship (Sep 21, 2003)

Steel toes would be really nice if loading weights for the counterweight fly system, but it might be possible to get some strap on ones for this. That can easily break at toe and close down students doing the fly system once the insurance company gets done with your school. Perhaps the school could invest in such a thing as a side thought along with fall protection etc.

Another good place for steel tips would be if you work in a metals shop part of a scene shop. Steel plate gets heavy. But as Wolf says, in general it's personal choice. People wearing ankle length or longer boots in my opinion are wearing the proper shoes because in addition to what he mentioned, they will with their tough leather prevent the shoe from being cut thru should you drop a knife or scenery on it. They will without steel tips allow your toes to bruse but they probably will not break with a good solid leather boot protecting them even with heavy much less sharp stuff falling on them as will be normal.

One very good reason not to wear sneakers or gym shoes is the above strength, than something that's even more important. A good pair of boots will have a solid sole that will to the most degree possible resist puncture. A sneaker will not. That means that any nails or other sharp objects sticking up will seriously damage your foot if you are not wearing boots at work be it with scenery or lighting. Sharp piece of steel sticking up in the house lighting area, is just as able to cause you problems as stepping on a nail as a lighting tech.

Just a few thoughts on not wearing gym shoes much less sandles.


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## wolf825 (Sep 22, 2003)

ship said:


> Steel toes would be really nice if loading weights for the counterweight fly system, but it might be possible to get some strap on ones for this. That can easily break at toe and close down students doing the fly system once the insurance company gets done with your school. Perhaps the school could invest in such a thing as a side thought along with fall protection etc.
> 
> SNIP



Hi Ship, 
Ahh--excellent point about the fly rail. Tho I WOULD hope that anyone loading and unloading on the rail would be doing the proper two-hand grasp on all pig-iron or lead, and the further acknowlegement of "mine" or "got it" etc when shifting weights between persons to ensure no one lets go prematurely. I would be surprised if insurance company's even knew or considered students and fly-rails and the supervisions and dangers in that task. Hmmm...fly rails could be a good question of the day--like whats the many differences between single and double purchase systems--what are the names/parts of a fly system and their purposes, and the correct safety technique's for loading/unloading and balancing weight and so on. I've considered this info for another tutorial..but the liabilities of posting such info (even if it came from Uncle Bill or other published sources) is up to Dave to decide about..as a fly system is just as dangerous as a pyro system. 

Hehe..when it comes to OSHA, fall protection and safety--the latest about being in a full harness and clipped in to the genie buckets--now thats a liability issue for insurance companys to consider. 

-wolf


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## ship (Sep 22, 2003)

Taking steel tips to the extreme,

I used to play catch with 155mm, 95# high explosive rounds that would give you a good bruse if they fell on your foot from the side, but sever a toe if they fell on you from the rear end. We played catch with them in a way kind of like playing with a medicine ball but much more difficult to catch. I used to weigh about 135# at the time but could sling em with the best of them.

They issued us at one point steel tipped combat boots but or wearing them was not enforced. You would just get a dark letter in your file if you were injured while not wearing them. Problem with them besides the weight was that if you were in +120 degree temperatures, them things really started to cook, and when it was -20 them things really became ice boxes especially since they did not breathe thus I'm not a fan of DocMartins. Leather breaths, steel plates keep the moisture in unlss they have suddenly become vented.

I was around for a lot of accidents with and without them however, to both me and others. I once dropped a round on my foot while wearing artic Mickie Mouse boots. Those things were already hard enough to walk in or climb up into a truck with much less having a crushed foot and still doing it. Seems like injurys were just as bad no matter what boot you had most of the time if you feet just did not get out of the way.

Than there was the shells that hit the steel tip on the ankle edge of the boot plate even if the the shell hit you from it's side. At that point, it was likely that it would crush the plate and the plate would cut into the foot and require some special work to extract the foot from the boot. In other words, I gave mine away and learned the levitation dance when shells were on the way to the deck. Time freezes, you hear the sound and feel the wind move in some kind of matrix type of deal, than it hits with a thud and the ground shakes a bit. 
It's a 95 to 106# round and not exactly easy to carry already so they did tend to hit the deck a lot especially after the 200 yard cross country sprint in full combat gear between guns when you ran out. Anyone want to take bets that the platoon sgt. had it in for me and planned on running me and my crew out of shells often to get even for some slight I did to him? We seemed to do it a lot. I would say it was decent assumption even if he was incompitent and I was the first to post a symbol of Texas up in the truck window with a big red x thru it...

Speaking of shells on the way to the deck, we used to have the new kids unload the ammo trucks. After all, everyone has to serve their time and the younger the better. Anyway, it was always fun to watch the new kid on the gun crew jump back with fear the first time a shell was dumped over the side of a truck at about a 8' height. Ya goof, the shell is plugged. No fuse - no explosion. 
Now if you drop one with a fuse on it... been there, seen that about 3 times, nice show of sparks and I never want to see it happen again especially during a pitch dark night. Your life does not pass before your eyes, but in those few moments when you assume, "I'm going to die, this is not good, perhaps I should fall over this log I'm sitting on to offer me up at least some protection." It does seem like you have some extra time to think about and consider things. Lots of things like debating falling over the log you are sitting on and getting your back all full of mud verses just sitting there, while being too lazy to "run".

Anyway, I have also dropped stage weights, Expensive HMI lamps, and many other things. Even if you are being careful, at times them things do drop and were I working a fly rail I would hopefully invest in at least some steel booties and good gloves. Than again, I don't wear the apron or long sleeves when changing Xenon lamp/gernades so I'm not perfect. Answer, nobody is too cool for safety gear, and dropping stuff is common to all even if careful. Safety gear is good but a pair of safety glasses on the forehead is only protecting the forehead. What's the best effort to put into safety, it's a personal choice we all decieve ourselves about. I'm too quick to get my feet out of the way are famous last words.

Fly system questions, oh' oh' ask me... Anyway, daily questions will hopefully become of such a format that we can all add as many as we want. Liability is a good question for a tutorial. I prefer to just recommend "The stage rigging handbook" or other books on the subject.


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## wemeck (Sep 23, 2003)

Here at GBS we have a serious issue with the students wearing sandals. The problem is starting to dwindle with the on set of cold weather. Timberland’s and other hard soled shoes work for me. I asked one of my favorite Grad students I worked under at SIUC about shoes and he always recommended hard soles and shoes with great ankle support. He personally had to stop wearing steel-toed shoes because he would use them as a tool to hammer in objects.


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## digitaltec (Nov 17, 2003)

If you do alot of work with rigging and heavy equipment (ex. speakers) then get yourself a good pair of steel toe boots. Throw in a few liners (ex. Dr Sholes (sp?)) to keep you feel comfortable. In terms of brands find a pir that fit you well. The last thing you want is your feet to be sore when you have to do a 12 hour load in the next day.


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## chizle97 (Nov 23, 2003)

depends during construction and fabrication its always best to wear steel toe boots or a solid shoe. But i find that if Im on running crew for a performance that rock climbing shoes are the best cause you wont slip and they are very quiet and light.


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## fishyswishy (Nov 26, 2003)

Climbing shoes ha. thats a great idea, i never could have thought of that. i heart my berkinstock sandles. lets just say i usually dont do much large set moving or whatever but when i hang lights or run board there is nothing like bare feet, unless the floor is dirty(broken lamps, side arms, cable). i just can't go back now


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## wemeck (Nov 26, 2003)

For a light shoe that offers some more support look at wrestling shoes. Some dancers and choreographers wear them for comfort, weight, and traction.


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## drumbum (Dec 21, 2003)

wolf825 said:


> Unless you are going to have your foot run over by something heavy like a car, I wouldn't worry about steel toes amputating your tootsies.



I can atest that yourtoes will be fine!!! I work conversions at the Convocation center at my school http://www.convocenter.niu.edu. One of my supers got new steeltoes, so we decided to see how strong they really are. We ripped out the steel from his old boot, took outside the loading dock and ran it over a couple times with one of the fork-lifts. It chipped a peice out of cement, and then a chunk out of the tire. The steel didnt buckle, scratch or even have the slightest sign of abuse. 

Now, since it was 4 am, and we had just finished taking down a stage for wayne brady, and put in a basketball court, we were all a little nutty, so we kinda all pisked our toes under the fork lift. Im proud to say, i still have all 10.


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## Radman (Aug 9, 2004)

I personally prefer Vans. Comfort, style, and besides, a rel techie has no feeling in his foot anyways!


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## avkid (Aug 9, 2004)

after dropping a 10lb counterweight on my foot ,i wear thick boots when working with the fly system


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## Radman (Aug 9, 2004)

Did I mention an iron grip is required when you wear Vans?


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## avkid (Aug 9, 2004)

what is that exactly


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## Radman (Aug 9, 2004)

www.vans.com


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## sallyj (Aug 10, 2004)

I am a big fan of steel toes. Of course, I work around alot of steel. They also come in handy for kicking scenery into place, or for strike.  Being a faculty member, I don't do it too often- don't want to set a bad example! 
If I did more electrics work or ladder work, I probably would not wear steel toes. But now I am so used to them that they are all I wear. Even when I am off work.
If you do alot of concert load in/outs, I would also suggest steel toes with high tops.

SJM


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## digitaltec (Aug 11, 2004)

Honestly, I have yet to find a steel toe boot that is comfortable after being on your feet for oever 20 hours. I usually aways have a pair in my car and will wear them when dealing with rigging and even truck packs, etc. But when it comes to normal operations, I wear normal shoes cause the last think I want is to have sore feet when I still have hours of work to do. Steel toes are good to have, but are not always needed in every situation.


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## yvfd82t (Aug 22, 2004)

*well....*

If you sit in a spot light booth wear sneekers... however if you can do it all bring both steel toe and sneekers, cuz i droped an ellipsoidal on my foot and it hurts like _*stuff*_. (word edited)


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## ecglstec (Aug 29, 2004)

I got some boots from a firefighting program. Steel toed and the most comfortable thing ive worn. easy to run with too.


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## BigGorilla (Sep 15, 2004)

I love wearing my Vasque hiking boots. They feel safe, I can stand for a long time and they give great ankle support. 

But, on the down side, it also turns my feet into little bitty pot roasts. So I try to make sure that if I'm going to be in for 12-15 hours, I pack a couple of pairs of socks. Preferably ones that have a whole lot of cushion. That, with the boots, tend to keep the dogs from barkin'.

Big Gorilla


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## krhodus (Jan 20, 2005)

I wear steel toe boots all day, I guess its something I picked up working at the zoo. I have 3 pairs, all Wolverine. I find them very comfterable yet still protctive. Ive had everything from stage weights to golf carts to animals go over the toe and nothing has happened.

Kevin


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## avkid (Jan 20, 2005)

I found an extremely comfortable(for at least 18 hours) steel toe boot, theTimberland Pro Series Pitboss model


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## SuperCow (Jan 20, 2005)

I always wear either my Blundstones or my New Balance All Terrain Running Shoes, which are a cross between a hiking boot and a running shoe, and are really comfortable.


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## propmonkey (Jan 20, 2005)

what are just some good shoes for everyday theatre work. im not too interested in boots but more of a shoe. i love my chucks but then tend to hurt after a few hours and im on my 3 pair in the past 2 years.


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## JahJahwarrior (Jan 20, 2005)

I wear chucks. I have worn vans in the past and for a few months I was borrowing some no name steel toed boots.....vans: Liked them alot (oh yeah, just a note, this is for all the time + tech use. I don't have shoes just for tech) but they were very thick and heavy. I skateboard and I loved them until....I got some chucks. I didn't skate in them for a while because people told me they'd die really fast, but one day I started. I've learned ho to keep them from tearing up too fast (you are more careful skating and you use alot of shoe goo  the shoes look disguisting actually from all the shoe goo...) and you can feel the board!! I'm not going back, unless I go with classic vans. I've had these chucks for months now and they are great. the steel toe things, one of my band members gave htem to me because he wanted me to wear them for a show. I started wearing them all the time and steel toes come in handy! not always for protection, but you can rest things on them and they are nice and firm with the footing. Yes, heavy...but it was not that bad after a few days, you got used to them. 

wear whatever, be careful. or wear steel toed boots and don't care. it's sorta like focusing lights. You dn't have to wear gloves but eventually you will burn your hand on a really hot lamp and decide to start leaving a pair in the lift.


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## soundman (Jan 20, 2005)

While I dont skate I only wear skater shoes.(save for ins outs) I have wide feet and they fit very well and at my real job where I might be standing for everal hours on end they are ok but with an insole its like heaven. Insoles folks use them and love them


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## Peter (Jan 20, 2005)

I dont really have "tech" shoes :-( I generaly just wear sneekers (I dont do much flywork, most of what i do is sitting behind the light desk or sound board) When i know i have to stand and walk alot, I wear my hiking boots. They are much lighter then steel toe boots and are designed to be walked in all day (I have also hiked up Mt. Washington 3 times with them, not to mention the tons of other trips i have taken). 

(and No, I dont skateboard, infact, not too many people in my area do, mountain biking is prefered b/c it is an actual semi-practical way to get from point A to point B (not many sidewalks arround and houses are way to far appart).


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## ship (Jan 20, 2005)

Over the weekend I bought a pair of REI far too expensive "Outlast" mountain climbing/hiking boots. The break in period given an average of 16 hour days this week and even with premium insoles, is killing me. Still since I don't do stage weights for a living, as long as a tough work boot like boot frame, it's sufficient for most use of it. More important for me is in those rare times when I'm on a ladder, I'm on it all day long and my foot will curle around the ladder rung. For this reason I have instead of a steel toe, a inner foot support plate that prevents bending at this part of the foot. 

In addition to this, it was since for other more normal reasons, a hiking boot for large amount of distances traveled in the day in looking at this and that when offering advice on how to fix it. Lots of boots on the market. If you don't drop stage weights on you feet, a steel tip as a rational might not be the best for you.

More important is a work or hiking boot type in that it will for most purposes better resist the stray rusty nail sticking up you will step upon better than that running shoe as the primary reason for a hard sole boot, protect your ankle and in general foot from abuse better than a normal or running shoe, and be designed for walking and climbing upon rough scenic surfaces instad of running.

After that, as said, this inner prevention of the boot bending around the ladder rung has more priority for me than a steel tip. This after also weight in given these boots finally break in, being comfortable to wear.

My last pair of Eastern Mountan Sports boots lasted about two or three years when of a similar design. Good boot.


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## SndMan108 (Sep 20, 2006)

Rocky Boots. I spent five years as a patrol officer at a college and found that Rocky made the best boots around. I usually got about 3-5 years out of a pair while putting 5-10 miles a shift on them. One added advantage to wearing police uniform boots is that they are black. Steel toes are great if you work where there is a need to protect your toes from having things dropped on them or run over. I also own a pair of Dunham dress work shoes with steel toes--I use them as my day-to-day shoes in running the theatre, but they also come in handy if I get stuck in the box office and then have to help out backstage during a show.


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## len (Nov 17, 2006)

I've been wearing Iron Energy by Skechers for the last couple years. Steel toes and they come in black. 

If you order off the website, no tax outside of California and free shipping. Also, enter the code "save15" and get 15% off.


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## SocksOnly (Nov 23, 2006)

When I first got into theatre tech, I started out as a lowly stage hand. At that time, for some reason, I was really into wearing socks with sandals, so I wore that on the job. It was when I dropped a table on my toe and lost the toenail that I decided that maybe wearing shoes was a good idea.

Because the production was West Side Story, I thought "hey, why not get Converse All-Stars so I can match the actors?" I've been wearing the same pair ever since. Because I still do a lot of work backstage (I do a lot of rail), these work great for sneaking about without being heard.

By the way, my toenail has never been the same since.


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## len (Nov 23, 2006)

SocksOnly said:


> When I first got into theatre tech, I started out as a lowly stage hand. At that time, for some reason, I was really into wearing socks with sandals, so I wore that on the job.



And if you were on my crew you would have been sent out to buy a pair of proper shoes, gloves, and a c-wrench. Shame on the person who hired you for not instructing you properly BEFORE an accident occurred.


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## SocksOnly (Nov 24, 2006)

Hm, I still need my own c-wrench. We weren't really hired at that point- we were so desparate for stage-hands that anybody could sign up. So nobody really cared what stupid things we did.

These days, when we're just programming light cues or something, we do it all in our socks. This is only when we're not in any danger of stepping on nails or getting squished, though.


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## gafftaper (Nov 25, 2006)

Just a note on the "Steel Toe Shoes are Dangerous" Myth. The Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel did an episode on this topic. First off they showed that in normal work conditions you are far better off with a steel toed boot. Then, using a fake foot and a hydraulic press they showed that yes you could have your toes amputated by the steel in your boots. However, the force needed to bend the steel was insane. It was so intense that without the steel, your toes would have been crushed into a pancake long before the steel would give. So yes it's possible to have your toes amputated by the steel toed boot, BUT without the steel your toes would be crushed beyond recognition much sooner.

Moral of the story, Wear Steel Toed Boots!!


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## TechiGoz (Dec 6, 2006)

Steel Caps (or toes) i have found are a lifesaver. It's been scientifically proven that it takes almost 1000kg to bend steel toes, so there nothing to worry about re amputation (unless of course you are expecting the orchestra pit to collapse on your foot)

But boots will save your feet in the long run, and they will be really helpful for the long hours on your feet. But steel toes are alot better, both support wise and comfort wise AND protection wise, when compared to sneakers.


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## SocksOnly (Dec 8, 2006)

The good thing about sneakers, though, is that you can _sneak _in them. Also, they're a bit lighter so it's easier to run around and do stuff (like sprinting up to the spot booth for a cue). However, if you're weighting or building or any other job that might squish your toesies, boots would probably be better.


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## saxman0317 (Dec 8, 2006)

My favorite pair of shoes for doing shows in is my old pair of climbers. Their made for doing mountain climbing, so their sturdy and comfortable, gortex makes em nice and dry, titanium toes, tounges, sides and heels (it isnt fun getting a foot in a crack), and i can stand and walk alll day and feel fine when i get home. Solid leather makes them pretty impervious to most stuff, and their matt black so i dont need to worry about being on stage during changes if something comes up. Their hi breds to so their still nice a queit (made for expidition climbing where your doing faces and treks). Steel toes at least a must though, at least if your doing builds...jjust standard safty. Gloves to...they may look good in your back pocket but having the hand wrapped for a month is no fun...


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## Logos (Dec 8, 2006)

A friend of mine in the UK has a pair of Nike's with steel toes great shoes. I own a pair of Rossi (Adelaide company) toughened toe dress shoes. No steel but extra tough leather on toes. Had a flight case run over my foot without crushing. I don't work flies very often and haven't dropped a weight for several years (I will next time of course now that I've said that)


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## gafftaper (Dec 11, 2006)

Just hit a pre-Christmas "buy one get one half price" sale at the "Famous Footwear" store. Surprise they had about half a dozen styles of Steel toes to choose from. I picked up two sets of steel toed boots. Got a top of the line brown all leather Timberland Pro high top for work in the shop (They are also slip and shock resistant). And a set of black Sketcher mid ankles for running shows in. Only cost me a total of $135 including tax. Saved $50 over the price at the specialty clothing for work store. Safe, fashionable, comfortable, and saved cash, Sweet Deal!! 

Oh and "Socks", you shouldn't have to run backstage. In fact you should always strive to move slowly and deliberately back stage. I always tell my students, If you don't have a reason to be moving then stay where you are. If you have a reason to move, then you need to get there as early as possible and wait. If you need to run, than that is a sign you need more and/or better people working on your crew. 

On the flip side, I can tell you that I've had a platform roll over my foot in a black out, I've had heavy pieces of furniture placed on my foot, and I can't tell you how many times I've kicked something hard and heavy in the blackness. Get some steel toes while you still have the toes to appreciate them. It's like buying insurance, you may not need them for years and it will seem like a waste of time and money. However, when the accident happens you'll be so glad you have them... and trust me, it will happen eventually.


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## SocksOnly (Dec 11, 2006)

For A Doll's House and The Glass Menagerie, we only had four kids (no adults to help...) to run the tech. I had to run flyrail and the spotbooth, so...yeah, a bit of running was needed there. So yes, I suppose more people would be better. My case rests, though, on the need to move silently onstage. (I'd like to see you tiptoeing in steeltoed boots, lol)


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## gafftaper (Dec 12, 2006)

SocksOnly said:


> For A Doll's House and The Glass Menagerie, we only had four kids (no adults to help...) to run the tech. I had to run flyrail and the spotbooth, so...yeah, a bit of running was needed there. So yes, I suppose more people would be better. My case rests, though, on the need to move silently onstage. (I'd like to see you tiptoeing in steeltoed boots, lol)



Having been a High School Drama teacher I fully understand the struggle to get, train, and keep a good crew. At the same time, I bet there are a lot of pros around here who would agree with me that the situation you describe is unsafe for a lot of reasons. If things go wrong on the spotlight, scenes are a little dark. If things go wrong on the fly system people die. 

Socks, You are doing what you have to do to get the show done so I'm not criticizing you. I always appreciate a hard working tech who is willing and capable of doing more than one job. However, your drama teacher/advisor needs a little talking to about theater safety. 

As for tiptoeing in steel toed boots. I work backstage all the time and you won't hear me coming in my new Sketcher steel toes... and I won't loose a toe when a stage weight falls on me someday. In fact everyone who works on stage at my theater wears steel toes.


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## SocksOnly (Dec 12, 2006)

> However, your drama teacher/advisor needs a little talking to about theater safety.



We don't have a drama advisor or a tech director. The drama club's run by five student-elected students each year, and the techies are taught/led by the eldest kids. 

But back on topic, I may have to eventually invest in some steel toes then. You've convinced me. Now I just need enough money...(to the Salvation Army!)


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## Van (Dec 12, 2006)

SocksOnly said:


> We don't have a drama advisor or a tech director. The drama club's run by five student-elected students each year, and the techies are taught/led by the eldest kids.
> 
> But back on topic, I may have to eventually invest in some steel toes then. You've convinced me. Now I just need enough money...(to the Salvation Army!)


 

Never Buy Used Shoes !!!! Specially since your a kid, < realativily speaking of course> , It''l ruin your feet by making them conform to someone elses wear pattern. Save the money buy your own. Did you know that for actors who are memebers of Actors Equity Association an endowment was started years ago that will pay for one new pair of shoes per year ?


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## gafftaper (Dec 13, 2006)

SocksOnly said:


> We don't have a drama advisor or a tech director. The drama club's run by five student-elected students each year, and the techies are taught/led by the eldest kids.
> But back on topic, I may have to eventually invest in some steel toes then. You've convinced me. Now I just need enough money...(to the Salvation Army!)



Well Socks you are definitely do the best with what you have. In our school district here that would never be allowed to happen. You must always have some sort of a certificated teacher acting as your advisor. There are too many chances for lawsuits. 

A couple of notes on the fly system from my real world experience. I teach at a community college and I work as crew occasionally at a High School that has a big performing arts center rented out to the community 4 or 5 days a week. At the college we just rented a big theater near by for our fall show. We were forced to pay someone $20 an hour to babysit the flyrail the whole time we were there. I asked if one of my college students could be trained for that position and they said absolutely not. We were allowed to use our college students to run the lighting and sound, but not fly. The house rules say a trained employee from the theater must be there the whole time. As for the highschool I work crew at occasionally. Only a limited number of students is allowed to run the fly system. They have to prove themselves to be very responsible at other work and then they are hand chosen to take an hour long training course. Students are never allowed to add or remove weight. When it comes to show time, we allow these trained students to run the fly system, however one of the adult crew people always has to be within visual range of the fly rail. 

Hang in the Socks and take the rail very seriously, that will keep you and your actors alive. My concern isn't you, it's the actors wandering around back stage who don't understand the potential danger. And might be tempted to play with the pretty handles. That's why I freaked out about you going off to run follow spot. You have no way of knowing what the the actors are doing back stage while you are gone. 

You should be able to pick up a comfortable pair of steel toes for under $60. Check out Sears and your local "workwear stores" (every major city's got one of those places that sell Carhart and safety clothing)


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## Andrewr (Dec 15, 2006)

On moving quitely in boots:

one of my favorite quotes ever;
'Hello little dancer girl, clumping around the stage and the wings in your dance shoes making more noise that a herd of elephants.'
Look at my feet, see my big black boots? hear how I move without noise? Now learn!

Technician live in darkness, move in silence....Like Ninja!

My steellies cost £10, and are fine


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## SocksOnly (Dec 16, 2006)

Hee hee, nice quote...I'll have to save that one.

Luckily our stage manager was also hanging backstage (right next to the rails, actually), so he was able to keep the actors from playing with the shiny handles. 

I'll see if I can nab a pair for Christmas, my toesies deserve a treat after all the crap I've put them through.


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## gafftaper (Dec 18, 2006)

One more reason to get steel toes. 

The Mythbusters showed a test of the effect of dropping a frozen turkey on your foot from about 4 feet. It hit the foot in the middle and completely broke all the bones... and those are much larger than the bones in your toes. We are talking about a medium size turkey smaller than an 8 inch fresnel, a stage weight, or a sheet of plywood.


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## SocksOnly (Dec 18, 2006)

Yikes. Point made.


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## taylorjacobs (Dec 21, 2006)

call me a dummy if you wish but i wear mono black converse while teching a show. they are all black which is important to me...because im anal retentive like that and they are comfortable quite and inexpensie. I have yet to have any tragic experiences while wearing them, but im sure i will. i think boots are too heavy to be going up and down ladders and running backstage...
if i loose a toe then i might reconsider


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## Chris15 (Dec 22, 2006)

taylorjacobs said:


> if i loose a toe then i might reconsider



Do they not say that prevention is better than a cure? Personally I would be wanting to all but eliminate the chance of loosing a toe... Steel caps will do this.


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## SocksOnly (Dec 22, 2006)

The only danger my toes have onstage usually is the risk of dropping a weight on 'em. I've actually mashed a finger or two with them (long story about that one), but I've never come close to mushing a toe yet. I wouldn't want to risk dropping 50 lbs on my feet without steel-tips (hopefully Santa will bring a pair for me).


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## What Rigger? (Dec 23, 2006)

Lately I've been digging the "Impact High" shoe from 5.10 Climbing. Built as a high top/boot for downhill mountain biking, but with that sticky rubber common to climbing shoes. Yes, there is an actual tread on them too. If you have to climb/walk steel for an in, they're a real treat!


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## SocksOnly (Dec 23, 2006)

5.10 makes excellent shoes, my very first pair of climbing shoes were made by them. But they're more made for sticking feet into tiny cracks, not tech-work (the dust on the stage would ruin the rubber's uberstickiness, and they're uncomfortable to wear for a long time)


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## thebikingtechie (Dec 26, 2006)

Right now the only tech work I'm doing is in my schools auditorium. We only do msuic and dance performances with a lot of basic assemblies mixed in. Because of this we don't have a scene shop and because of the idiots who designed the place we don't have a fly system. Since there are no nails lying around I just wear sneakers. I can't imagine climbing in and out of the genie and up and down the stairs to the booth with big heavy boots on. With that said, once my feet stop growing I am planning to buy some good steel toes red wing boots for when I work in a real theatre over the summer. Though I haven't heard about steel toes crushing people's toes like some people have mentioned, if your steel toe protection is crushed, your toe would have faired much worse then that steel if the steel hadn't been there. 

Also just to mention, in my theatre we have a strict rule that no one can work without closed toed shoes. Because we're located in Vermont and we are only there during the fall winter and spring, it hasn't been a problem.


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## celtictechie (Dec 27, 2006)

Steel are the best for any stage work trust me you will get use to walking slient in them. I have got on stage and behide a soundguy in the dark with no sound on at all. it is called walk on your heels not on your toes and step with inside of your foot and bend your knees a bit the slient walk of Navy seals. 

James


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## SocksOnly (Dec 27, 2006)

Maybe that should be part of the techie-training: moving silently. Like you attatch bells to a bunch of students and see who can get across an obstacle course the fastest and the quietest. 

You could do the Navy Seal walk or just wear socks  Ok, I know I know, please don't attack me with "wear steel-toes you idiot"s or anything (again). I know about the hazards of being barefoot onstage. Still, socks are unparalleled when it comes to stealth.


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## Van (Dec 28, 2006)

SocksOnly said:


> Maybe that should be part of the techie-training: moving silently. Like you attatch bells to a bunch of students and see who can get across an obstacle course the fastest and the quietest.
> 
> You could do the Navy Seal walk or just wear socks  Ok, I know I know, please don't attack me with "wear steel-toes you idiot"s or anything (again). I know about the hazards of being barefoot onstage. Still, socks are unparalleled when it comes to stealth.


 
I actually used to do an exercise with some kids that I taught, it was all about how to "be quiet and move with a purpose". It was amazing watching these kids go from trudging onstage with a mic stand and spending 30 seconds looking for a spike mark to walking directly to the mark setting the stand and getting off the stage without running, rushing, or skulking. 
Oh and BTW I wear steel toed redwings, they have Kevlar on the heels and toes, I call them my "bullet proof" shoes. Biggest problem is the kevlar wears through the stitching on a regular basis. Well that and people keep wanting to shoot me in the foot to see if they really are "bullet-proof" or maybe they just want to shoot me in the foot ? Hmmmmmm.


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## gafftaper (Dec 29, 2006)

Van said:


> I actually used to do an exercise with some kids that I taught, it was all about how to "be quiet and move with a purpose". It was amazing watching these kids go from trudging onstage with a mic stand and spending 30 seconds looking for a spike mark to walking directly to the mark setting the stand and getting off the stage without running, rushing, or skulking.



Go on... tell us about the exercise you did. Some of us might want to use it some day.


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## Bucky (Jan 1, 2007)

well at least you dont have the problem of kids in your school when working on the stage NOT wearing shoes just running around in barefeet  and i get really pissed at them


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## SocksOnly (Jan 1, 2007)

Fun fact- our drama club's called Barefoot. Oddly enough, all of them wear shoes.
Another fun fact- us techies, when left with a lot of spare time, will hang out in the theatre without shoes on (the theatre, not the stage). Many times they get hidden and/or thrown up into the spot booth. 
Yet another fun fact- that's how I chose the name "SocksOnly"  

I would also like to learn what sort of excercises you can do to turn loud people into ninja-esque people. Seems like that could come in handy.


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## Dani (Jan 3, 2007)

Im a fan of sneakers, I have a set of hiking boots I wear on occasion, but it is usually sneakers, I tried my chucks for a little but soon realized the traction on them is horrible and not the best when climbing on scaffolding or in the catwalk. Traction is definatley something I consider because I know how many things I climb without the use of a ladder.


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## cuelight (Jan 3, 2007)

I agree with Dani, I prefer working in sneakers but I won't deny that a set of boots is definatly a valuable thing to have as well.


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## gafftaper (Jan 3, 2007)

As we have debated at length previously in this thread, it shouldn't be about what you prefer it's about avoiding injury. As a theater professional safety is the number one concern in everything we do. As far as I'm concerned that includes toe safety too. I might prefer to not wear a seatbelt or a life jacket but I do because I want to keep myself safe. 

The truth is if you get out and try some of the new steel toe options you'll find they are VERY comfortable. I've been running around in my new steel toe Sketchers all through the holiday season. Believe me I wouldn't wear steal toe shoes to take my 2 year old to the big downtown department store to see Santa if they weren't comfortable. Like I said in a previous post I just got a pair of Timberland all leather above the ankle boots for work in the shop and a pair of ankle high sketchers for stage work for a total of $135 including sales tax. That's a whole lot less than a trip to the E.R. will cost you. 

I had one of those small high school "chair-desks" tip over on my foot about 15 years ago... weighed about 20 pounds max. Besides the weeks of pain, the disgusting looking big toe that turned black before the nail which fell off months later, and the long recovery to normal. I now have an ingrown toenail problem on that big toe. I've had the toenail surgically removed and parts of it killed once but it didn't work. So now I'm talking to a specialist about killing more of my toenail. Believe me it's no fun when you toenail grows DOWN into your toe and not out. If I only would have been wearing steal toes. You work around a lot of things that are heavier than 20 pounds and that could fall from 20 feet+ in the air.


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## cuelight (Jan 4, 2007)

I do agree with you but I do think that there's a time when you can use your own judgement to make a decision about what footwear to have. 
During get-ins for example, I will always wear my steel toe caps, regardless of if I'm involved in the actual building of the set or not. However when it comes down to calling a show I am much more likely to wear my black sneakers. 
At the same time I think that this might be a difference that you find across the pond. Although wearing steelies here (UK) is definatly not unknown I do know quite a large amount of stage crew, carpenters and even flymen who won't wear them.

I do however, fully understand and respect what you're saying. You're perfectly right that our first priority as theatre professionals is for health and safety.


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## gafftaper (Jan 4, 2007)

cuelight said:


> I do agree with you but I do think that there's a time when you can use your own judgement to make a decision about what footwear to have.



That's exactly what I'm saying. If your just running a follow spot or calling cues in the booth there's no reason to wear steal toes. However if there is anything around you that could be dropped or run over your toes, then your judgment should tell you to think safety first. 

I've been really preaching in this thread because there are a lot of young folks in these forums who think they are invincible. They have no idea that you could still be suffering from a minor toe injury like I had 15 years later... but at least I still have 10 toes. If I had any idea how much pain and hassle my stupid little toe injury would be the rest of my life I would have worn steel toes every day back then. Now the damage is done and I've got to live with it.


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## cue1go (Feb 19, 2007)

The Mythbusters on the Discovery Channel tested this myth. The boots held up beyond the highest standard (ANSI 75, which is 75 lbs. dropped directly on to the toe from 6 feet). They could not produce an amputation by crushing the toe. I always wear steel toe boots when hanging lights or rigging, and I have dropped plenty of things on my feet over the years. I trust them with my life (or my toes, at least). Make sure whatever you wear is comfortable and fits (you don't want blisters).

Matt


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## GeneralDoom (Feb 19, 2007)

It seems to me like the best thing is to plan a head with what you are doing and your crew assignment. I have always worn combat style boots, both with and without the steel toe, simply because of the strength and weight, they've even saved my skin once or twice; particularly when I was lowering the genie with a couple of new people and it landed on my foot. Overall it's about staying alert and working safely; it's never fun to ask some one to leave the stage because they keep acting up when you're flying pipes in and out.


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## Joren_Wendschuh (Feb 27, 2007)

Wow, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Magnum boots.

Having big feet myself, (15US), Magnum is one of the only carriers of "big" shoes... BUT the also have Steel toed "uniform" boots, with *ZIPPERS*.
And my god, they break in in about a day, and are so light and comfortable. The only downside I've found is I can go through a pair in about 6-8 months, Partially prolly because of my weight (250'ish) but my god.

They have a *soft* rubber sole, great for traction on wet ramps when unloading or loading the trucks, and with size zippers, they are SO easy and fast to slip on. I wear my pair constantly, and with their steel toes, well, I know its saved many parts of my foot a few times over. Well worth their price.

And if you cant walk around in boots, quietly, you need lessons. even at my weight, I'm easily the quiest person on my local crew, with my boots on. The loudest thing you'll here is the woosh of the air. Clomp around, it just is harder on your feet, and on your shoes. Sneak around. Be a real Techie-Ninja


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## HandyMan (Mar 5, 2007)

Im kind of partical to wearing a pair of red wings during construction and setting all sorts up, but during the shows and a few rehersals, I like to pull out my chux, nice a quiet, and i just fly around the theatre...great shoes...


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 30, 2008)

Thread revival!!!!!!

Well, I didn't want to start a new thread for an old topic, so here goes:

What does everyone think about metatarsal guards on their steel toe boots? It seems like it woul be a great option, since the steel tips usually stop before the rest of the foot. 

Story time: When I was about 14, barefoot and on a beach, I dropped an aluminum canoe on my left big toe. It seems fine these days, and I've never had problems, but it might get me when I'm older, who knows. Anyway, the spot it hit was well above where steel tips end on the foot, and I always worry about dropping something there again, even in my steel tips. 

I currently wear a pair of black leather steel tip Ceterpillars. I put a pair of work boot insoles in them back in December and have been very happy since. My family has a history of poor knees, and since putting in the insoles I've worked long, long days and felt fine at the end of them. I love these boots. I keep em oiled too. Heavy protective leather, they protect and support my ankles, I feel more secure in my footing on ladders and grids wearing these boots, much more than I ever did in Converse. For me, boots are a part of my standard tech wear. So that's my current situation.

However, when time comes to replace them, as my soles seem to wear fast on all my footwear, I'm thinking of a boot with the following features:

-Steel tip 
-Metatarsal guard
-Full ankle coverage
-Black leather
-COMFORTABLE

Because I love to brood over things before I buy them, and I seem to be a bit anal in having things meeting my requirements, what does CB think are the best, most comfortable options that meet my spec's?


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## Dustincoc (May 4, 2008)

During Tech week, light hangs, and preformances: Non-slip kitchen shoes(all flat black and I get them free from my other job), Currently I've got Shoes for Crews brand(SFC) which I have almost work out(Had them since September). Before that I had a pair last for 2 and a half years but I can't remember what rand they were. 

For Construction and such, I usually have on my boots on which are not steel toe but I'm usually on the scaffold so I'm more worried about what I've dropped hitting someone in the head than it hitting my foot.


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