# Weight trucks and storage?



## JLNorthGA (Jan 2, 2012)

Now that the former tenants have moved out and take all the drops and curtains, we have a lot of weights that are not needed on the arbors.

They are all "pig weights" with the two notches on the ends. Probably going to have on the order of 80-100 weights free after we get up the new curtains and main drape.

I had thought of building a "weight truck" to store and transport the extra weights. Obviously I wouldn't want more than 40 weights on the truck (maybe more like 32). That still leaves me with having to find a way to store the rest of the weights.

I had thought of using 2 x 8s with suitable cross bracing for the weight truck and 5" casters. Reasonable idea? What are some ways to store the extra weights?


----------



## 65535 (Jan 2, 2012)

A nice pile on a pallet out of the way near the rail. They only get moved when needed and a hand truck can be used to pick what we need. 600#+ of rolling weight is best to be avoided if possible.


----------



## MNicolai (Jan 2, 2012)

The important question: How often do you currently move weights?

We keep our weights stored in three separate places:

1) Underneath the weight rail, so there are always bricks at ground level when you need them for arbors or general purpose use
2) On the weight floor, so there are always bricks available for loading/unloading heavy loads.
3) Under the stairwell to the catwalk, because we own a lot more weight than we ever use, so these bricks have been sitting dormant for a few years.

I can't see any application where we'd need to easily move more than a dozen bricks at once, which would be for weighting down boom bases. Otherwise I'm perfectly content leaving them underneath the weight rail or up on the weight floor.

Is there a reason you can't leave your excess weights near the weight rail or on the weight floor (if you have a weight floor)?


----------



## DuckJordan (Jan 2, 2012)

MNicolai said:


> The important question: How often do you currently move weights?
> 
> We keep our weights stored in three separate places:
> 
> ...


 

I agree with MNicolai, Store the weights on the weight floor, That's where you may need them for moving or adding or subtracting weight. Keep about 200# on deck, and if you use movable booms out in the house (my main space does) keep about 8-10 bricks on either side for counter balancing (you are guying off the top aren't you?)


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen a number of variations of a two-wheel dolly/hand truck modified with two arbor tie rods welded in place. Many scenic/pipe and drape companies use them. Works well.



Hand Truck Dolly | Find the Latest News on Hand Truck Dolly at Home Tools


----------



## JLNorthGA (Jan 2, 2012)

MNicolai said:


> The important question: How often do you currently move weights?
> 
> We keep our weights stored in three separate places:
> 
> ...


 
Our "locks" for our rigging (stage left) are at stage level - which is dark and somewhat crowded - that's why I don't want weights hanging around unless necessary or at least that many. The arbors descend into the lower level of the theatre - behind a cinder block wall with steel plate doors (maybe 3' x 3') - so I'm not sure I want to put them down there.

That's why I was figuring on a "weight truck". I was going to store them in the scenery area.


----------



## MNicolai (Jan 2, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> Our "locks" for our rigging (stage left) are at stage level - which is dark and somewhat crowded - that's why I don't want weights hanging around unless necessary or at least that many. The arbors descend into the lower level of the theatre - behind a cinder block wall with steel plate doors (maybe 3' x 3') - so I'm not sure I want to put them down there.
> 
> That's why I was figuring on a "weight truck". I was going to store them in the scenery area.



And you do not have a weight floor up or a midrail up above?


----------



## avkid (Jan 2, 2012)

Your floor blocks are not at the same level as your lock rail?


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 2, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> Our "locks" for our rigging (stage left) are at stage level - ... The arbors descend into the lower level of the theatre - ...


To use industry-standard nomenclature: you have a lockrail at SL deck level, and an arbor pit. 

Agree with the above--the vast major of pig weight should be stored on the loading gallery (aka Loading Bridge), with some on the intermediate fly floor level, and just enough for ballast, etc. at deck level.


----------



## rochem (Jan 2, 2012)

No one's mentioned it yet, so I'll just throw this out there. While stacking bricks on the load rail high above the deck is quite normal and perfectly fine, make sure that you NEVER stack bricks higher than the toe rail of the loading bridge, and make sure everyone working up there knows this as well. In the event that your loading bridge doesn't actually have a toe rail (as was the case with a theatre I was in just a week ago - ridiculous stuff), then you'll need to come up with a better solution for storing weight up there. It can be a pain to walk all the way across the rail just to put a brick down, but that's infinitely better than building up a tall stack of bricks right under you that can easily slide off and fall to the deck below. It sounds obvious, but you'd be surprised how many people don't think about this.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Jan 2, 2012)

Sand bags are a far better option for boom bases any day. Especially on the older cast iron bases, bricks have a tendency to want to slide right off.


----------



## 65535 (Jan 2, 2012)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Sand bags are a far better option for boom bases any day. Especially on the older cast iron bases, bricks have a tendency to want to slide right off.


 

Our bases have rods that match our arbors guides spacing exactly and keep the weights on.


----------



## philhaney (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> ... I wouldn't want more than 40 weights on the truck (maybe more like 32). That still leaves me with having to find a way to store the rest of the weights...



Our stage weights weigh 35 lbs. each. 32 of them would weigh 1,120 lbs. Even if your stage weights are 25 lbs. each, that's still 800 lbs. In either case, I wouldn't want to have to move that truck!

I would find an out of the way place to store your stage weights (not counting the weights you store on your loading bridge, if you have one), and go with derekleffew's suggestion of a modified hand truck for transporting them.


----------



## MPowers (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> Our "locks" for our rigging (stage left) are at stage level -......... The arbors descend into the lower level of the theatre - behind a cinder block wall...........



People keep mentioning that the the best place to store the weights would be on the loading rail, which, in and of itself, is a good idea. However, I notice the OP has yet to inform us as to whether or not he has a loading rail. 

The arbor pit, which is a very good thing when faced with a low grid height, takes away the most common deck level storage area, i.e. on the floor between the tension blocks. What I have seen done, and it may or may not be a viable answer in this situation, is to build shelves. The shelves fit in between any arbors that have an 18" or wider gap. The shelf or platform spans the pit and has raised sides and back to prevent any weights from falling off. The ones I saw most recently had 2" angle iron sides and 2x6, laid edge to edge, for the floor/shelf. They can be at floor level or at the height of the lock rail. Of course they need to be built to handle the 500# or so that might be put on them. Most systems have at least one or two places where the arbors are far apart enough to do this.


----------



## DuckJordan (Jan 3, 2012)

MPowers said:


> People keep mentioning that the the best place to store the weights would be on the loading rail, which, in and of itself, is a good idea. However, I notice the OP has yet to inform us as to whether or not he has a loading rail.
> 
> The arbor pit, which is a very good thing when faced with a low grid height, takes away the most common deck level storage area, i.e. on the floor between the tension blocks. What I have seen done, and it may or may not be a viable answer in this situation, is to build shelves. The shelves fit in between any arbors that have an 18" or wider gap. The shelf or platform spans the pit and has raised sides and back to prevent any weights from falling off. The ones I saw most recently had 2" angle iron sides and 2x6, laid edge to edge, for the floor/shelf. They can be at floor level or at the height of the lock rail. Of course they need to be built to handle the 500# or so that might be put on them. Most systems have at least one or two places where the arbors are far apart enough to do this.


 

The biggest thing I think I've taken away from his post is that he seems to think that he has weights that he will never use. What kind of facility is this? Is it a road house, a rep theater or school?


----------



## chausman (Jan 3, 2012)

DuckJordan said:


> The biggest thing I think I've taken away from his post is that he seems to think that he has weights that he will never use. What kind of facility is this? Is it a road house, a rep theater or school?


 
That's what I thought too, but after re-reading the posts, I think the OP is looking for a more temporary solution. while they are waiting to get new soft goods, they need to get the weights out of the way and off the arbors.


----------



## philhaney (Jan 3, 2012)

chausman said:


> That's what I thought too, but after re-reading the posts, I think the OP is looking for a more temporary solution. while they are waiting to get new soft goods, they need to get the weights out of the way and off the arbors.



Nah:


JLNorthGA said:


> ... Probably going to have on the order of 80-100 weights free after we get up the new curtains and main drape...



But I agree with you and DuckJordan. It seems like the OP thinks he will have weights he won't use...


----------



## MPowers (Jan 3, 2012)

DuckJordan said:


> ....... Is it a road house, a rep theater or school?


 
BuZZZ ! None of the above. A small Community Theatre in Rural western N.C. Where N.C., Georgia and Tennessee all meet. A few miles north of the Georgia state line and lake Chatuge.


----------



## DuckJordan (Jan 3, 2012)

MPowers said:


> BuZZZ ! None of the above. A small Community Theatre in Rural western N.C. Where N.C., Georgia and Tennessee all meet. A few miles north of the Georgia state line and lake Chatuge.


 

Darn, what could i have won? :neutral:


----------



## JLNorthGA (Jan 3, 2012)

DuckJordan said:


> Darn, what could i have won? :neutral:


 
How about a stuffed possum? We're in Clay County, NC - the home of the possum drop (lowering actually) that happens every New Years Eve.

The former tenants took all of their drops and the main drape. So we are starting from scratch.


----------



## Footer (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> How about a stuffed possum? We're in Clay County, NC - the home of the possum drop (lowering actually) that happens every New Years Eve.
> 
> The former tenants took all of their drops and the main drape. So we are starting from scratch.


 
Do you have a loading rail...? IE a catwalk high above the stage that has access to the arbors when the batten is all the way into the deck?


----------



## JLNorthGA (Jan 3, 2012)

MPowers said:


> People keep mentioning that the the best place to store the weights would be on the loading rail, which, in and of itself, is a good idea. However, I notice the OP has yet to inform us as to whether or not he has a loading rail.
> 
> The arbor pit, which is a very good thing when faced with a low grid height, takes away the most common deck level storage area, i.e. on the floor between the tension blocks. What I have seen done, and it may or may not be a viable answer in this situation, is to build shelves. The shelves fit in between any arbors that have an 18" or wider gap. The shelf or platform spans the pit and has raised sides and back to prevent any weights from falling off. The ones I saw most recently had 2" angle iron sides and 2x6, laid edge to edge, for the floor/shelf. They can be at floor level or at the height of the lock rail. Of course they need to be built to handle the 500# or so that might be put on them. Most systems have at least one or two places where the arbors are far apart enough to do this.


 
The locks are mounted on a fairly high rail made out of welded angle iron. If you call that a loading rail, then that's what it is. The arbor pit is about 10' down from stage level - if not more.

I actually have a couple of empty arbors from the original construction. If I could find a way to stand one of them up, it would hold a few of the weights.

We'll get soft goods in as we need them - probably over the course of the next few years.


----------



## Footer (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> The locks are mounted on a fairly high rail made out of welded angle iron. If you call that a loading rail, then that's what it is. The arbor pit is about 10' down from stage level - if not more.
> 
> I actually have a couple of empty arbors from the original construction. If I could find a way to stand one of them up, it would hold a few of the weights.
> 
> We'll get soft goods in as we need them - probably over the course of the next few years.


 



So, no loading rail from the way it sounds. 

Putting weights in the arbor pit will be pretty useless, you should never have to touch the weight of a gridded pipe. Dereks suggestion is a good one. Beyond that, we use a small carpet dolly like these to move weight around. We are all lead weight so things get heavy fast.


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> The locks are mounted on a fairly high rail made out of welded angle iron. If you call that a loading rail, ...


How high is "fairly high"? 3'? 10-30'? or higher? See the illustration at the entry loading bridge; I think it will clarify some things.


----------



## philhaney (Jan 3, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> The locks are mounted on a fairly high rail made out of welded angle iron. If you call that a loading rail, then that's what it is. The arbor pit is about 10' down from stage level - if not more.
> 
> I actually have a couple of empty arbors from the original construction. If I could find a way to stand one of them up, it would hold a few of the weights.
> 
> We'll get soft goods in as we need them - probably over the course of the next few years.



The angle iron with your Rope Locks on it is called the LockRail or locking rail.

The Loading Rail (or Loading Gallery or loading bridge or loading platform) is what the gentleman is standing on in the upper right hand side of this picture:




It's called the Loading Rail because that's where you load (and unload) stage weights on (from) your arbors while the battens (or pipes) are on the deck.

We're just wondering if you have one, because the ideal place to store your extra stage weights would be up there.


----------



## 65535 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ideal unless you have the entire floor of the rail covered in weights stacked 2-3 deep and higher on the offstage side, plus a row 3-4 high on your pin rail and a small stack of 40-50 on the deck. Not to mention the "door stops" all around the place.


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 3, 2012)

65535 said:


> ...Not to mention the "door stops" all around the place.


Which are, in all likelihood, a violation of applicable safety fire code.

-----

Perhaps it's "The Goldilocks Syndrome"--venues either don't have enough pig weight, or weigh too much. How many have an amount that's "just right"? You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much pig.

MPowers (or others), what's the perfect percentage? "Rigging Contractor to supply weight equaling __ % of total arbor capacity." Then the further breakdown of 2", 1", and wafer bricks.

Cue someone to mention the maximum capacity of the building, which may be substantially less than all arbors fully loaded.


----------



## chausman (Jan 3, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Which are, in all likelihood, a violation of applicable safety fire code.


 
But what if the reason there are no doorstops was simply budgetary?

(Does anyone find it odd that the same picture is being referenced 3 times sequentially?)


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 3, 2012)

chausman said:


> But what if the reason there are no doorstops was simply budgetary?


Doesn't make sense, as a manual door stop will always cost less than a self-closing mechanism. See the article at Door Holders for Fire Doors - Fire Engineering , specifically

> The requirements of NFPA 1, Fire Code, 2009 Edition:
> 
> 14.5.4 Self-Closing Devices.
> 
> 14.5.4.1. A door leaf normally required to be kept closed shall not be secured in the open position at any time and shall be self-closing or automatic-closing in accordance with 14.5.4.2 unless otherwise permitted by 14.5.4.3. [101:7.2.1.8.1]


----------



## 65535 (Jan 3, 2012)

In their defense they are only used when moving large equipment or pieces through a threshold doors are not permanently propped.


----------



## Footer (Jan 3, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Which are, in all likelihood, a violation of applicable safety fire code.
> 
> -----
> 
> ...


 

My feeling has always been you should own half as much weight as your grid is designed to hold.. and that is the ideal. Rarely can a grid actually hold every single lineset filled to capacity. In my building I have 12' arbors and all lead weight. I actually own more weight then our structural engineer says the building can handle. They have put a cap of 600# per lineset on us due to structual problems in the building. I'm also a double purchase house, so that makes things even more fun... hang 1# of weight, put 3# of stress on the building.


----------



## philhaney (Jan 4, 2012)

chausman said:


> (Does anyone find it odd that the same picture is being referenced 3 times sequentially?)



That's because we all had the same idea at the same time; Use a picture to help explain the terminology...


----------



## josh88 (Jan 4, 2012)

and as far as pictures goes that one covers just about everything. I've got the same one hanging up in my shop.


----------



## venuetech (Jan 4, 2012)

I have small hand truck "pallets" that i can stack about 6-8 slipweights on then i can easily move the stack into storage using a hand truck.
a pallet is plywood slightly larger than the tongue of the hand truck with thin runners on each end. I could stack more weights on but it is just a hand truck.


----------

