# Building Tormentor Positions



## Les (Jan 22, 2018)

I am wanting to build some tormentor lighting positions, and wanted to double-check the thoughts I have so far.

I am going to add a quick sketch of the plan below.

Basically, it is a side catwalk with a handrail lighting position already existing. My thought is to cheeseborough off that with a vertical mast which would extend a little over 4' above the rail. To finalize the position, I am planning to use 18" Mega-Sidearms, which incorporate a Mega-Coupler instead of the traditional Altman C-clamp.
The rig will be cheeseboroughed to the rail in two places - the top rail and the bottom rail. Additionally, the tail-end of the pipe will rest on the floor below the rail. I have thought about using floor flanges here, and I still may, but I don't feel it would be necessary for other than a more finished look. I plan on this being a permanent "curtain warmer" position. The fixtures used here will be two Source Fours; one per sidearm.

One question I probably already know the answer to, is whether Sch. 40 pipe is necessary. I already have a lot of 2" OD 1/8" wall. For this application I wouldn't anticipate any issues with the thinner walled pipe since it's a 4' mast holding two Source Fours, but I was planning on buying a few 8' sticks of Sch. 40 pipe anyway. I just found this pipe in my supply and thought I'd ask.

Anyway, what do you all think? Anything that could be improved upon?



And since context is everything:




What's recommended for safety attachment points? I have heard of secondary clamps with forged eye-bolts. I have also seen some methods where an eye is mounted through a hole in the pipe with a Nylock on the other end, but I am not sure if that methodology is correct. Certainly not on a horizontal or tall vertical structure, I would imagine.


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## GreyWyvern (Jan 22, 2018)

I would safety around the vertical, below the sidearm. If it were to fall, it could only go an additional 2'. You could also cross it over the sidearm in addition to being around the vertical to keep it from falling the 2'. Just be careful how you do it on the top one to ensure it can't slip over the top of the vertical. I would probably start with the safety on the inside of the vertical and below the sidearm, then wrap it around the vertical and cross it, then take it back around the vertical and cross it above the top of the side arm, then take it down and around the fixture. Hope that makes sense.


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## Van (Jan 22, 2018)

If you've got the pipe and the room, which it looks like you do, Why not go ahead and add another upright? making it a ladder will provide a lot more stability and solves any issue of a safety slippingoff the end.


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## JohnD (Jan 22, 2018)

You could also look at building this using Kee Klamps. 
https://keesystems.com/store/fittings/kee-klamp.html
I'm thinking it might be possible to use the #17 clamp on crossover on the existing horizontal pipes to support the verticlal pipe(s) and the #10 single tee for the upper horizontals. I think it would be cheaper and somewhat neater looking. If you use the single upright, the mega sidearm would be the better choice.


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## Les (Jan 22, 2018)

Thanks for the help, guys. I have never used Kee Klamps, but this seems like a good project to start with. I already have the cheeseboroughs and Mega-Sidearms which never get used for much else, but I do prefer the idea of a ladder. I might start with the drawing above and start budgeting for a stock of Kee Klamps. 

What's the consensus on the thin-wall pipe that I have (2" OD 1/8" wall)? I am confident that it wouldn't bend like a straw with the application I'm planning, but I realize that I won't necessarily be there forever to police things. If it's an issue, Schedule 40 is affordable enough.


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## derekleffew (Jan 22, 2018)

Les said:


> What's recommended for safety attachment points?


(I don't think this will work with your hardware but...) Remember that c-clamp you took off the fixture to put on the sidearm? Clamp that to the vertical above the sidearm and run the safety cable through it.

I see nothing wrong with your plan, even the not using sched. 40. I might put the vertical inside the railing rather than outside. But, I'd want to know the strength of the railing. You're just begging someone to climb on it to reach the upper fixture. Applying 150 lbs. of lateral force at the top of an 8'-0" vertical is much different than 150# at waist height. Thanks, Archimedes.

I'm pretty sure a rota-lock is less expensive than a Kee Klamp, so I might consider those also if buying new. (EDIT: Essentially the same price.) While I love The Light Source products, in this case I think it's an unnecessary cost. (EDIT: Didn't realize you already had them.)


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 22, 2018)

I was just at the Booth Theatre and they had three units on almost every side arm, including movers. Im ok with the side arms but not with the thin pipe without a sealed drawing from an engineer. Have you tightened a vlamp on it? Tried to bend it? The pipe is too cheap to risk it. But using the cheesboroughs and side arms sounds fine.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 22, 2018)

Les said:


> Thanks for the help, guys. I have never used Kee Klamps, but this seems like a good project to start with. I already have the cheeseboroughs and Mega-Sidearms which never get used for much else, but I do prefer the idea of a ladder. I might start with the drawing above and start budgeting for a stock of Kee Klamps.
> 
> What's the consensus on the thin-wall pipe that I have (2" OD 1/8" wall)? I am confident that it wouldn't bend like a straw with the application I'm planning, but I realize that I won't necessarily be there forever to police things. If it's an issue, Schedule 40 is affordable enough.


 @Les I've about five decades of Kee Klamp use behind me. Kee Klamps, schedule 40 and resisting the urge to over-tighten continues to let me sleep like a baby. [I'll ignore all rude comments regarding regressing to needing diapers again.] 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## derekleffew (Jan 22, 2018)

Les said:


> ...I already have a lot of 2" OD 1/8" wall.


In light of Bill's comment, I was curious, so I looked it up. Steel sch.40 1.5" nom. has a wall thickness of 0.145". @Les's is 0.125". Does one-fiftieth of a inch really matter? (So I keep telling my wife.)

OTOH, the 2.0" vs. 1.9" O.D. may have repercussions. Some clamps may balk at and refuse to work with the true two inch. Les, what's this stuff made of? Is it steel or aluminum alloy or other?


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## Les (Jan 22, 2018)

derekleffew said:


> In light of Bill's comment, I was curious, so I looked it up. Steel sch.40 1.5" nom. has a wall thickness of 0.145". @Les's is 0.125". Does one-fiftieth of a inch really matter? (So I keep telling my wife.)
> 
> OTOH, the 2.0" vs. 1.9" O.D. may have repercussions. Some clamps may balk at and refuse to work with the true two inch. Les, what's this stuff made of? Is it steel or aluminum alloy or other?




Ya know, I'll have to take another look at that wall thickness. Sure looked like 1/8", but the tape measure I had on me doesn't allow for very good accuracy. I'll get another look tomorrow. 

It's steel pipe. Looks just like standard sch. 40 at a glance until you pick it up and look at the end. 

In regards to one of @BillConnerFASTC's questions, I took a 10' section and propped it up on both ends and stood on it. I could get it to smile and bounce if I jumped up and down, but that was about it. 

Of course, this may all be a moot point since I'll probably end up buying Sch. 40 anyway. There's an area I'd like to add handrails to, and the thinner walled stuff may be perfect for that.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 22, 2018)

Schedule 10 is just 1.09 wall thickness versus .145 for 40. I know uou can find 10 and 40 and 80, schedule 5 can be found. Im not sure you can find 20 and 30 in 1 1/2 or what wal thickness would be. I cant find structural properties for 10 but I'd say noticeable.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 22, 2018)

RonHebbard said:


> @Les I've about five decades of Kee Klamp use behind me. Kee Klamps, schedule 40 and resisting the urge to over-tighten continues to let me sleep like a baby. [I'll ignore all rude comments regarding regressing to needing diapers again.]
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.


I have no problems with kee klamps nor rota-locks which i like, buf he owns unused cheeseboroughs. Only makes sense to use them, and they are slightly easier to use.


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## Les (Jan 27, 2018)

Just a quick update. I went to the steel supplier today and bought the proper Sch 40 pipe for about $1/ft. I threw on a quick coat of black paint and will hopefully have the time to install the position tomorrow. I figured for a final price of about $30, it was worth it to just use the correct materials.


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## Les (Jan 30, 2018)

Final results (minus actually powering the fixtures)


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## RonHebbard (Jan 30, 2018)

Les said:


> Final results (minus actually powering the fixtures)
> View attachment 15967
> 
> View attachment 15966


 @Les Looks good Sir. How did you finally deal with the bottom end of the vertical pipe? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 30, 2018)

Now to resist the temptation to "climb" the guard rails to focus.

Looks very good. I'd have no reservations double or triple hanging each side arm.


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