# Camera For Theater



## Alfonso (Sep 10, 2020)

Hello, the theater I work for is looking to install a camera probably around the FOH Position. the goal is to hook the camera up to TVs in the lobby, and dressing rooms to use as a stage view for cueing and so patrons can see the stage at the concession stand. does anyone have any recommendations for a camera? I'm trying to stay away from wireless or IP cameras due to network restraints. I was thinking SDI, HDMI, or even just an analog signal.
Any help is appreciated.


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 11, 2020)

I'm currently just using a cheapo analog security camera for this purpose. It's only 480p, but it gets the job done in near-zero latency. If I were to upgrade, I'd probably consider some kinda POE camera with PTZ and then run it into a converter like a Magewell, but I have to sit down and figure out the best way to network that system before I upgrade.


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## almorton (Sep 12, 2020)

You're right to avoid IP - our camera outputs analog and ip. When you switch between the views the ip is noticeably behind the analog. We use a security camera from hikvision but in the past we've used others such as samsung. 

One thing to be aware of is the time it takes to automatically switch into nightvision during a blackout. We have set our camera to manual switching mode. We have a small dmx relay board that switches a 12v signal to flip between normal colour view and IR view. This means when we have a blackout cue we also program the camera to immediately switch to IR so the scene on stage remains visible.


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 12, 2020)

I wouldn't dismiss IP cams out of hand. There is obvious latency, but usually on the order of milliseconds. It wouldn't be useful as a conductor camera or anything that absolutely needs zero latency, but for a backstage/overflow feed it wouldn't be a problem.

We recently acquired PTZ Optics cameras that output on NDI and RTSP and the latency is less than 500ms from what we can tell, maybe even under 100ms. If timing is less important than quality of image, then IP based cameras are the ticket. 

Another thing with the low light relays is some of them are loud. Ours is definitely audible in the house. *Blackout Go*-------CLICK!


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## mikebags (Sep 12, 2020)

Lately I have had good luck with Marshall's line of compact cameras. We almost always run SDI from the camera back to a rack where it gets further distributed around the building. Most new installs we encode the camera feed onto the network for distribution, but we have also distributed with SDI and HDBT. Generally, this video is for patrons or backstage viewing where some latency will not be an issue. If low light is needed I will add a dedicated system that's locked in the low light mode. For anything where the least amount of latency is required, I will still use a cheap analog CCTV camera and analog DA's.

http://www.marshall-usa.com/cameras/CV350/index.php


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## Alfonso (Sep 12, 2020)

almorton said:


> You're right to avoid IP - our camera outputs analog and ip. When you switch between the views the ip is noticeably behind the analog. We use a security camera from hikvision but in the past we've used others such as samsung.
> 
> One thing to be aware of is the time it takes to automatically switch into nightvision during a blackout. We have set our camera to manual switching mode. We have a small dmx relay board that switches a 12v signal to flip between normal colour view and IR view. This means when we have a blackout cue we also program the camera to immediately switch to IR so the scene on stage remains visible.


Would you happen to know what model your hikvision camera is? I was looking at a couple from them.


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## almorton (Sep 12, 2020)

I'll have to go in and check. It's one of the more expensive ones, though.

The latency is definitely too high in ip mode for a conductor. I guess for patrons it's ok. The stage manager is probably ok most of the time. The changeover between IR and normal is silent. The camera is only about 4 feet above the head of someone very tall when they are standing, and you can't hear it change over. When we were setting it up we had to be on a ladder next to the camera to hear the very (very) slight click of the relay. The camera itself was silent.


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## josh88 (Sep 13, 2020)

We just picked up a marshall CV 350 to replace our 20 year old balcony camera. As well as 2 PTZ cameras for recording and imag purposes. Knowing full well there will be a slight delay, but an acceptable exchange for what our usage will be. I'll drop some pictures once its all set up. The marshall cameras are spectacular for as small as they are. We had MST3K through this year and they had 3 marshall cams that you barely saw in the dark and a real solid picture, especially for the cost.








Marshall Electronics CV350-10XB

CV350-10XB 2.1MP Compact 10x Full-HD Zoom Camera, 59.94/29.97fps



www.adorama.com


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## Matt Marcus (Sep 17, 2020)

For a long time a common camera was the Panasonic WV-CP480, which we're currently still using tor the FOH shots. Ours are set to B&W for the IR shot, but can be color as well.


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## josh88 (Sep 27, 2020)

I can get some better pictures at work this week, but we are VERY happy with the marshall camera. Nice clear picture and the low light mode looks just like an IR shot. It's the lower left (input 2)


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 27, 2020)

That looks great!


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## macsound (Oct 1, 2020)

How do you multiplex the cameras into your tv? I assume thats not a feature of the tv itself. 
Wondering because the only options I know of are expensive. If you have a cheap SDI solution I'd be thrilled to adopt


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## almorton (Oct 1, 2020)

Our security disk recorder generates that sort of output. That said, I can get a similar display on my phone by remoting in to the cameras.


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## mikebags (Oct 1, 2020)

Blackmagic has a 4 input SDI multiviewer. As far as multiviewers go it’s a pretty reasonable at sub $200.

Blackmagic Multiviewer


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## almorton (Oct 2, 2020)

At least some of our cameras (not sure about the one in the auditorium) are Hikvision DS-2CE16H0T-IT3E variants.


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## josh88 (Oct 3, 2020)

macsound said:


> How do you multiplex the cameras into your tv? I assume thats not a feature of the tv itself.
> Wondering because the only options I know of are expensive. If you have a cheap SDI solution I'd be thrilled to adopt




mikebags said:


> Blackmagic has a 4 input SDI multiviewer. As far as multiviewers go it’s a pretty reasonable at sub $200.
> 
> Blackmagic Multiviewer



Thats exactly what we're using. It also has an sdi loop out so, we're running a matching monitor in the lighting side of the booth, and then it feeds backstage and to our green room. 

That being said the ATEM mini pro and ISO both have an option for multiview out the HDMI output, so if you're already looking for a small video switcher that double dips. We went with the separate multi viewer so that we could retain the HDMI output from the ATEM to feed tvs or projectors (or what have you) and because all of our cameras also have both HDMI and SDI outputs.


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## Alfonso (Jan 13, 2021)

Now the manager at my theater would like me to find a camera to record theater shows and/or concerts. the ones I was looking at were the Panasonic HC-V770 and the Canon XA11, those two are the budget we have. does any one have any experience using these cameras for recording shows?


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## StradivariusBone (Jan 13, 2021)

I would definitely recommend you check out the Black Magic Pocket Cinema 4K. Base package would be in your budget, it doesn't come with a lens, but it does take MFT lenses which might already have. We have two and the quality is amazing. Very easy for volunteers to operate and train on. The only downside is the battery life is terrible, so plan on being plugged in. 

We had a Canon similar to that model and while the canon was really nice, the BMPCC was a big improvement in theater lighting scenarios.


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## AAMorgan (Mar 29, 2021)

josh88 said:


> We just picked up a marshall CV 350 to replace our 20 year old balcony camera. As well as 2 PTZ cameras for recording and imag purposes.



How far is your balcony from downstage center? It's a 30x optical zoom, yes? How tight can you get at full zoom? Which PTZ camera did you get and what zoom do they have? How far are they from your stage?


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## josh88 (Mar 29, 2021)

AAMorgan said:


> How far is your balcony from downstage center? It's a 30x optical zoom, yes? How tight can you get at full zoom? Which PTZ camera did you get and what zoom do they have? How far are they from your stage?


The cv350 is only a 10x optical zoom. Then we got 2 PTZOptics 30x zooms.

All 3 are about 65’ from the plaster line. The Marshall we don’t zoom at all since we’d have to physically climb up to it or use the crappy small remote, but it was always intended to be a full stage shot for us.
The PTZ cameras can zoom in to a light switch on the upstage wall about 100’ away and you can “almost” read the labels. But generally speaking we can get a decently clear chest up tight focus about 75’ away with no problems.

This video doesn’t include the Marshall camera but all the tight shots are from the PTZ cameras (the thumbnail is a good example) with the exceptions of the wider on stage shots.


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## TimMc (Mar 29, 2021)

josh88 said:


> The cv350 is only a 10x optical zoom. Then we got 2 PTZOptics 30x zooms.
> 
> All 3 are about 65’ from the plaster line. The Marshall we don’t zoom at all since we’d have to physically climb up to it or use the crappy small remote, but it was always intended to be a full stage shot for us.
> The PTZ cameras can zoom in to a light switch on the upstage wall about 100’ away and you can “almost” read the labels. But generally speaking we can get a decently clear chest up tight focus about 75’ away with no problems.
> ...



How are you using the PTZ cameras? Running position cues from Isadora/Qlab/other?


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## josh88 (Mar 29, 2021)

TimMc said:


> How are you using the PTZ cameras? Running position cues from Isadora/Qlab/other?


For now, nothing special. Just an ip joystick. We haven't been doing any shows or anything intense, most of the content we've produced this year is stationary readers or performers being recorded. We have a few positions saved in the stick, but haven't found ourselves using them much favoring someone in control finding what looks interesting on the fly since they're usually b cams.


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## BillESC (Mar 30, 2021)

I'm installing a lot of DataVideo cameras for streaming, both in government buildings and churches. It is rock solid gear with lots of available features. Check it out. 








Cameras | Datavideo | Professional end-to-end solutions provider for your live video production.

Datavideo is the best solution equipment provider for hybrid event, live video production, pro AV , lecture capture and other applications.



www.datavideo.com


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## ruinexplorer (Mar 30, 2021)

I really liked the Datavideo cameras. My only issue was that my theater was bigger, so low light was an issue due to the zoom. In show conditions when I had them closer (80' or so), they were just fine. Bonus was that I was doing a demo with the HDBaseT models and the setup was a breeze.


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