# Looking for the "best" LED pars



## mthom (Jul 9, 2016)

Hi all,

I'm looking for the best simple LED pars:
1. INTENSITY - the most intense LED pars you know,
2. Good colour reproduction with highest CRI possible,
2. Round, beam degree of 14-30 (ok if manual- or DMX-zoomable, don't care if not),
3. Good dimming at low percentages,
4. Camera flicker-free operation.

*I will not be able to test and compare them, for my own reasons.* It is probably going to be a "blind" purchase. I'm counting on your opinions and my market research abilities.

My options are:
- Philips ePAR 180
- Philips PUNCHLITE 220
- Philips PAR 155 Zoom
- ETC ColorSource PAR
- Martin Rush PAR 2 RGBW Zoom
- Chauvet COLORado 2 Quad Zoom
- Elation SixPar 300
- Elation Arena PAR Zoom
- Cameo Light Zenit Z 120
- Cameo Light Zenit P 130
- Cameo Light FLAT PRO 18
- ProLights ARC LED 7513 Quad 2 Zoom
- ProLights Studio COB Plus FC

If you know of another brand or model, please share as I am open to suggestions.

I intend to purchase 24 of only one model, for theatre, corporate events and live rock and pop shows. Money is less of a problem right now.

Thank you, waiting for your opinions, experience and stories.

Shoot!


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## SteveB (Jul 9, 2016)

Add ETC Desire D60 to your list, brighter then their Colorsource.

Not sure about the brightest, but it might have the best lense options.

Maybe as well reconsider a unit that has a zoom function to make sure you can manipulate the function from the unit and not have to do it via DMX and a console. That would really get tiring after a while if it's not also a moving head.


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## StradivariusBone (Jul 9, 2016)

We just purchased 5 Blizzard Rokbox5's. RGBAW. They work good about 20' off the deck as downlight, haven't had many opportunities to use them in other applications yet, but they are cheaper and punch through our front wash of S4's surprisingly well for the price. Worth a look if nothing else.


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## mthom (Jul 10, 2016)

Thanks for your reply guys.

@SteveB I forgot to mention that I'm looking for homogenised beam LEDs. That rules out the ETC Desire line unfortunately.

@StradivariusBone Thanks, I'll check them out.

C'mon people, help me out


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## bdkdesigns (Jul 10, 2016)

Just to be devil's advocate, we have Rokbox 5s and I consider them worthless. I find them to have a terrible dimming curve and not very bright beyond ten to fifteen feet. We also have some Arena Par Zooms and those blow the Blizzards out of the water in every category.

I'd strongly consider Chauvet myself. They have been putting out some really great stuff recently in their professional line. That or ETC is about all I'd touch in LED land right note in a sight unseen situation.


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## mthom (Jul 10, 2016)

@bdkdesigns Thanks. I was leaning towards the ETC ColorSource PAR, but then according to photometrics data and user reviews I'm afraid they might not be as intense as I would like. When I read about them, people compared them to the Philips PAR 155, and said the Philips is more punchy. And then, Philips came out with the new PUNCHLITE 220 which supposed to be even more intense.

And you're right about Chauvet - on paper, they have very good products, and I'm having a hard time deciding between the above LEDs and the COLORado 2 Quad Zoom (or as it goes by its' other name, ProLight ARC LED 7513 Quad 2 zoom).

I'll appreciate any more feedback, and would love to read more opinions, stories and experience!


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## soundlight (Jul 10, 2016)

COLORado 2 Quad Zoom is an okay backlight fixture but lacks proper homogenization in my experience with a demo fixture. The beam shows significant color shadowing. Take a look at their new beast - the COLORado 3 Solo. I saw the smaller version - COLORado 1 Solo - in a demo, and I was seriously impressed with everything but the output, and the COLORado 3 Solo looks to be the answer to the output problem. 180 watts of fully homogenized, single-lens LED! https://www.chauvetprofessional.com/products/colorado-3-solo/ With how much I liked the COLORado 1 solo, I'm looking forward to the 3 Solo. Chauvet has been making massive strides in product quality recently.


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## dj41354 (Jul 10, 2016)

also Rosco's Braq Cube.. 
http://www.rosco.com/luminaires/braqcubes.cfm
Very bright, very good dimming, manually changeable lensing included (20-60degree), very high pwm rate (4Khz)


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## RickR (Jul 10, 2016)

mthom said:


> I forgot to mention that I'm looking for homogenised beam LEDs. That rules out the ETC Desire line unfortunately.



I've worked quite a bit with the Desire line and it's predecessors. If you put any lens in front of them it does the homogenizing, and the greater the frosting the less you can tell even looking right at the lens. So I suggest throwing out the narrowest angle and reconsider. Do note however that the D60 has a fan. It's quiet but not silent.


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## Ric (Jul 10, 2016)

I have just got a bunch of Martin Rush PAR 2 RGBW Zooms. 
They're a very awesome fixture. Variable beam width ( DMX controlled zoom) which can zoom extremely fast. The colour is homogenised with very good mixing.
Appearance of the beam & light in haze is the closest thing I've found to replicating a traditional PAR can, but of course full colour mixing & zoom make it much more versatile.
They are silent apart from when zooming, which is a huge plus in our Theatre.
I have replaced all our old PAR 64's and multipars and couldn't be happier!
(we also have some of the Rush MH6's which is the same fixture plus pan & tilt for even more options)


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## Kelite (Jul 11, 2016)

A brand new Apollo RGBAW fixture introduced recently is the HQ5020, which meets your specifications quite well-




http://www.apollodesign.net/multispot-hq5020.html


Powerful RGBAW LEDs

Enhanced Color-Range and Advanced HSL (Hue Saturation Level) Color Mixing Control

Color Mixing Modes
Static – 25 Presets
Pattern – 23 Presets Settable to Chase/Fade, Sound to Light
DMX Control Modes – 6


User-adjustable White Balance

Lens: 25°

Lumens: 4,250

Power Consumption: 95W

Switch Mode Power Supply

DMX Master/Slave Mode

Flicker Free TV-Camera Compliance

Integral Yoke/Floor Stand

IP-20; IP-65 Available


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## robmerow (Jul 11, 2016)

"Best" I would lean toward D40 or D60 Lustr w/ lime. If the source will be visible, you could do a gel extender before the holographic lens for a more homogenized appearance.

"Favorite" would be CQ Color One 100, but sounds like it won't be bright enough for your application.

Another contender may be the Rush Par 2.


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## TheTheaterGeek (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm partial to the ETC desires as well. Their punch is insane and they have an insane color package. The D60 is one of my go to fixtures If I can get my hands on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TupeloTechie (Jul 11, 2016)

Another vote for the ETC Desire line. The lens options alone set it apart from nearly everything else, not to mention the color and SMOOTH dimming. 
With a lens in the unit it's hard to see the "skittle effect" unless they are at a low level.



robmerow said:


> "Best" I would lean toward D40 or D60 Lustr w/ lime.


I wasn't aware they were making a Desire array with the lime leds? I'm very impressed with the lime in the S4 Series 2 and the Colorsource line.


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## robmerow (Jul 12, 2016)

Ah, I stand corrected. I had thought they updated the Desire line along with the new Lustrs.


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## dreamist (Jul 13, 2016)

Currently have 3 demo fixtures in stock and am evaluating them:
- ETC ColorSource PAR original
- ETC ColorSource PAR Deep Blue
- Philips Showline SL-PAR 155 Zoom

I'd seen the CSPAR Orig and SL155 before... 

Largely, I'm still pretty conflicted about a choice between the three of them. Things I've found:

- CS Par Orig has a noticeably better white than either DB or SL155
- CS Par Orig is noticeably brighter than Deep Blue (as specs would tend to indicate)
- CS Par Deep Blue does have a decent LED blue color and magenta, but cannot get even sort of close to the blue-green spectrum of the original, whereas the SL 155 can get darn close to the blue-green of the CSPar Orig
- SL 155 has the most punch across spectrum, but the worst white
- CS Pars have a noticeably better dimming curve, although SL155 isn't terrible
- CS Pars are about half the size and weight
- SL155 has the double yoke for floor standing
- SL155 has a 16 channel personality which is kind of big, but does afford some nice built in strobe effect controls etc. 
- CS Pars have nice (though expensive) lensing options, but the SL155 has zoom built in. (the CS Par lensing does also fit the SL155, though I'm sure it's not as efficient, it does shape the beam)

For my use which is largely back and downlight, I'm still pretty conflicted on which fixture I will be most happy with. I love having ETCs name, but the SL155 keeps nagging at me as a more versatile choice. Dunno if that helps your process at all but figured I'd share.


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## SELD (Jul 13, 2016)

mthom said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for the best simple LED pars:
> 1. INTENSITY - the most intense LED pars you know,
> ...



My most recent LED Shootout was with cyc lights. A few years ago I did one with pars. The pars I ended up choosing are not on the market anymore and are strickly RGB. They are great and working well. Today I would certainly pick something with W or A if not both. 

The Color Sources you mentioned are a great light, but you need to double up on the them because they are not as bright as some of the others, but the price point is good. I wouldn't get anything less than the D60 if you are looking at ETC. The Chauvet Quad Par Hex. has been a light that a few high School PACs have purchased. These lights have great colors, and good dimming, at a manageable price. The white needs some TLC to make it a white. The pixel pars are nice as well but they are at a much higher price point. I have used the Colorado Zoom Quad Par Tours and they were bright and the zoom was great. Color wise was pretty decent, but not as vibrant as the Par Hex or the Pixel Par. The Chroma Q color 1, is newer. I haven't used it, but their LED strip lights are wonderful except very expensive. 

If you have any more questions please let me know. I think you will find you will have many many opinions. When I provide consultations, I am usually working with people that have limited budgets. So I'm always looking and trying to find the best lights for a manageable price. Good Luck. Let us know what you decide.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 14, 2016)

SELD said:


> The white needs some TLC to make it a white.



That leads me to a question I don't know the answer to yet: 

Do fixture profiles in consoles these days -- say, Ion and newer -- provide a facility for colorimetry tuning?


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## SELD (Jul 14, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> That leads me to a question I don't know the answer to yet:
> 
> Do fixture profiles in consoles these days -- say, Ion and newer -- provide a facility for colorimetry tuning?




Yes, it is very powerful. I have attached a video of three manufacturer's so called White. Unfortunately I don't have the photo that shows the white I created but it was very similar to the center of the cyc white. I was able to balance all the colors and make them look like one fixture instead of three different kinds. This was actually done on an Element desk.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 14, 2016)

SELD said:


> Yes, it is very powerful. I have attached a video of three manufacturer's so called White. Unfortunately I don't have the photo that shows the white I created but it was very similar to the center of the cyc white. I was able to balance all the colors and make them look like one fixture instead of three different kinds. This was actually done on an Element desk.



The one to the right is what I'd call white. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised the ETC desk has the best profile for the ETC fixture...


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 14, 2016)

Compare specs of these: http://www.osram-americas.com/en-us...-specialty-lighting/Pages/KREIOS-FRESNEL.aspx I've only seen the "white" vesion, not the RGBA. I though the proice point was pretty good. Not the brigthtest, but not bad for the buck.


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## Ric (Jul 14, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> That leads me to a question I don't know the answer to yet:
> 
> Do fixture profiles in consoles these days -- say, Ion and newer -- provide a facility for colorimetry tuning?


Not specifically colorimetry tuning that I am aware of.
Most desks do allow you to record colour palettes so that you can choose your own 'White' or other colours within the gamut of the devices mixing.
ETC Ion/Eos & Cobalt/Congo do have a lot of fixtures that have colour calibrated profiles, but that has been generated by ETC themselves.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 14, 2016)

Okay, I guess that's close to what I mean. More what I was talking about is that I gather it is possible to set cues on a full-color lamp using HSV or HSB color spaces, and I was wondering if the mapping tables/equations for those, for a specific fixture type, were hand tunable by the user.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk


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## mthom (Jul 15, 2016)

dreamist said:


> Currently have 3 demo fixtures in stock and am evaluating them:
> - ETC ColorSource PAR original
> - ETC ColorSource PAR Deep Blue
> - Philips Showline SL-PAR 155 Zoom
> ...



AHA! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for - thank you.

I stil can't decide either.

I eliminated and added some fixtures, so now I need to decide between the following:
- ETC ColorSource PAR
- ETC Desire D40
- Chauvet COLORado 3 Solo
- Philips PAR 155 Zoom
- Philips PUNCHLITE 220

I would have loved to have the Chroma-Q Colour One 100 on my list, but unfortunately it is too dim compared to the others.

My wish is to have a fixture that looks like the Chroma-Q Colour One 100 (that is, one homogenised light source), combined with the behaviour, punch, colour spectrum and all other features of the ETC Desire D60. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Anyway, thank a lot guys for your replies - really helpful information! Still can't decide...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 15, 2016)

Well as a couple people pointed out, the D60 does have a 7.5 inch Job Lot in the front into which you can put diffusers. What is the driving force behind your 'must be a homogenous light source' requirement

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## mthom (Jul 15, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Well as a couple people pointed out, the D60 does have a 7.5 inch Job Lot in the front into which you can put diffusers. What is the driving force behind your 'must be a homogenous light source' requirement
> 
> Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk



Aesthetics and beauty, not to mention the "loss" of light when you put on a diffuser that has the same angle as the fixture, just to get that homogenous look.


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## robmerow (Jul 15, 2016)

The "diffusers" in the Desire range are not traditional diffusion, but holographic etched lenses which are quite efficient (someone can probably provide the exact number, but its more than 90%). But even with these, it's not truly homoginous.

I'm also a believer in the homogeneous look, and I feel like in five years or so the skittles look fixtures will look quite dated. And in ten, the multiple quad or hex circles will look dated as well (but by then you may be up for replacement anyway).

If form and function are of higher priority than cost, would you consider the ETC Gen 2 S4 with fresnel adapter? More expensive than the other options, and some may argue overkill, but it'll certainly do a nice job.


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## derekleffew (Jul 15, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Well as a couple people pointed out, the D60 does have a 7.5 inch Job Lot in the front into which you can put diffusers.


Job Lot? Autocorrect for color slot? 
The D40 takes a 7.5" colorframe, the D60 is 9".


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## cdiamondz (Jul 15, 2016)

robmerow said:


> If form and function are of higher priority than cost, would you consider the ETC Gen 2 S4 with fresnel adapter? More expensive than the other options, and some may argue overkill, but it'll certainly do a nice job.


If you were attempting a giant, even, bright wash, then this might be what you're looking for. The fresnel zoom will also let you to attempt smaller washes, and be even brighter. Only draw back is that each fixture is ~$2,100 not including the fresnel adapter. Youtube video from ETC: youtu.be/zH10nQOxsjw


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 15, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> Job Lot? Autocorrect for color slot?
> The D40 takes a 7.5" colorframe, the D60 is 9".



Gel slot, actually. Yeah; bad voice rec. And yes, I misquoted the sizes.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 15, 2016)

mthom said:


> Aesthetics and beauty, not to mention the "loss" of light when you put on a diffuser that has the same angle as the fixture, just to get that homogenous look.



So these would be fixtures the audience could see?

I myself was assuming they were theatrical lighting, but it's pretty uncommon, IME, for the audience to be purposefully able to see the fixture faces in that environment -- if for no other reason that even the human eye hasn't enough stops of AGC to be able to see everything else reliably...


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## dreamist (Jul 19, 2016)

mthom said:


> I stil can't decide either.
> 
> I eliminated and added some fixtures, so now I need to decide between the following:
> - ETC ColorSource PAR
> ...



The pricing categories on those don't all line up tho.. From what I've seen, the CSPAR and SL155 are essentially the same price point (not quite $600), while the Punchlite 220, D40, and COLORado 3 Solo are all between $1000 and $1200 or so.. is your experience similar?


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## ledstixx (Jul 24, 2016)

ETC should be good. I used Elation arena, these are bright but so heavy and poor material, especially menu buttons.


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