# Building Jurisdiction After Fire Alarm



## MNicolai (Sep 17, 2010)

Every so often here at CB in casual discussion, the question comes up about what to do if a fire alarm goes off and you're "pretty certain" it's a false alarm. Be it a deliberate false alarm from a pull station, a hazer triggering a beam smoke detector, or the sprinkler system stumbling on an air bubble in the pipes, there are a lot of different reasons a false alarm may occur.

Especially in assemblies (theatres, gymnasiums, schools, arenas), there's usually a lot going on and the last thing anyone wants is to have to evacuate hundreds or thousands of people for a false alarm, and in some cases possibly having to refund tickets. This puts many people in a position where if they feel reasonably confident the alarm is false, they would rather continue as they were without checking the building or getting the fire department involved. With there always being the possibility that the alarm may have been purposeful, we owe it to our patrons, students, friends, and coworkers to evacuate regardless.

Should the fire department arrive on the scene of a false alarm, you should not refuse them entry into the building as they have operational control of it until such time that they deem it is safe to be occupied again. The following is an interesting article on the matter, written by the New York State Education Department for schools under their jurisdiction:


> From time to time the question arises, as to who is in charge of a building after sounding of the fire alarm. From informal opinion #81-13 of the Attorney General Robert Abrams, excerpted below, it is clear that once a fire alarm is sounded, "ownership" of, or jurisdiction over the building rests with the fire department.
> 
> Jurisdiction is not returned to the school authorities until the fire chief or his designee makes a determination of safety and returns the building to the person normally in charge.
> 
> ...



While specific laws and regulations may differ from state to state, or even township to township, for all intents and purposes, it's best to always let the fire department do their job unimpeded, no matter how quickly you want to get the audience back into their seats.


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## derekleffew (Sep 17, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> ...With there always being the possibility that the alarm may have been purposeful, we owe it to our patrons, students, friends, and coworkers to evacuate regardless. ...


For sake of discussion, I'll argue the opposite. Las Vegas, having been the site of a few catastropic acccidents, has some of the most stringent fire laws in the country. And yet, when an alarm is triggered, a soothing British female voice says "The cause of the alarm is being investigated. Please remain calm and where you are. We will let you know if any further action is necessary." (paraphrasing slightly).

It doesn't matter if the alarm happens during the day, night, or the official press opening of a $100 million show.
From Halt in 'Viva Elvis' premiere reminiscent of Elvis' debut in 1969 at International - The Kats Report - Las Vegas Sun :

> On Friday night a fire alarm was tripped in the "Viva Elvis" theater, halting the Cirque show's opening number, "Blue Suede Shoes." There was no smoke or fire apparent in the hotel, but for a few minutes the audience sat confused while full power to the venue was restored.


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## photoatdv (Sep 17, 2010)

Agreed. At one on my venues we don't evacuate people unless several alarms go off (don't know quite how it works) or the fire watch finds smoke/fire. There are also no pull stations (well no audience accessible ones... the staff can obviously trigger and alarm). 

Of course the fire department is called and responds regardless. If fact, they are called automatically and by our fire watch. If the fire watch doesn't call or says its real they send everyone out with hoses and axes, if the fire watch says its false they send a truck and leave the axes stowed .

EDIT: Kids, this is a professional venue with professional staff... and our fire watch doesn't assume it's the fogger. High school is not the place for this. We do it because of the very real danger from evacuation of people who don't have fire drills every month in school!


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## MNicolai (Sep 17, 2010)

'Tis true that some of the most deadly incidents are due to trampling and people panicking rather than an actual fire or emergency, and to have people get trampled on a false alarm is senseless. Still, I'd want to get people out calmly _before_ they see smoke, because once they see smoke or flame, panic sets in and more people get injured in the rush to the door than by smoke inhalation or flames.

I'd defer to Teqniqal, but his account's not seen any activity in the last several months.


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## teqniqal (Sep 18, 2010)

I think the letter from the _New York State Education Department_ quoted above sums it up pretty succinctly and logically. Tis better to err on the side of safety rather than mistakenly think that you 'know' it was a false alarm.

Ultimately, it is the AHJ that can clarify this question for you. Visit with them, explain your concerns, and ask them exactly what procedure they would prefer. Get it in writing. Do not paraphrase it. Reproduce it _*as published*_ to all concerned parties (administrators, staff, students, guest artists and crews, renters, volunteers, etc.).

Mike, sorry for being a laggard at CB - the economy is warming-up.

Remember: *National Fire Prevention Week* is October 4-9, 2010 - Plan to have your staff and students do theatre fire safety tasks.

*Fire Protection Scavenger Hunt:* Draw a plan of the building and send out teams to mark the locations of any fire protection equipment (Alarm stations, bells, horns, strobes, emergency lights & battery packs), Fire Doors, Fire Curtains, Smoke Vents, Sprinkler heads, valves, flow sensors, smoke/heat detectors, Fire Extinguishers, Fire Hoses, Fire Alarm Control Panels, Exit signs (& battery packs & the Exit sign lamps actually glow). If they are really good, have them note the date of the last inspection tag, if any.

Actually have an unannounced mock fire drill during a tech rehearsal - (don't actually pull the alarm - per above) but you can see that someone goes to the nearest pull station and calls "Alarm Pulled", someone goes to the fire curtain and calls "Fire Curtain Released", people go to EACH fire door and call "Door closed" (*this is a trick question* - the doors should NEVER be propped-open unless held with a magnetic door holder that is tied to the fire alarm system -- _see how many doors were found open that had to be closed_); and if you designate a start point for the 'alleged' fire (drop an orange traffic cone on the floor with a sign taped to it that says : "This is the fire") and see who gets there first with the fire extinguisher. The list can get long for people's responsibilities, and there should be something for everyone to do, not just run out the door (screaming). Don't forget to have crew / staff that are there to instruct the crew / performers / audience (even if they are not actually there for the drill) where / how to exit and gather outside the building. It has to be ORGANIZED chaos, not just random mayhem.


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## Les (Sep 18, 2010)

So, for those who may take matters in to their own hands, and choose not to evacuate a building pending their own investigation, let's not forget that there are hundreds of places in every building where a fire could be manifesting which may not be in plain sight. Attics, walls, HVAC, etc. How would all these areas (and more) get checked by informally trained staff members in a reasonable amount of time, while the audience is still in their seats. 

Unless you have personnel on hand formally and officially trained in fire safety, I really feel like you should *always* evacuate, regardless of what you think you know. Who are you to take others' lives in to your own hands? The show can wait, tickets can be refunded, life goes on. There could be a fire _while_ you're using a fogger. Stranger things have happened.


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## Chris15 (Sep 18, 2010)

Les said:


> There could be a fire _while_ you're using a fogger. Stranger things have happened.


 
What's to say that the fogger would not indeed be the culprit? I guess more so with smoke machines, which have hot nozzles and combine that with a curtain in the wrong place or something of that nature and you may well have a fire on your hands...


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## Les (Sep 18, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> What's to say that the fogger would not indeed be the culprit? I guess more so with smoke machines, which have hot nozzles and combine that with a curtain in the wrong place or something of that nature and you may well have a fire on your hands...


 
Absolutely. I was just speaking more of the scenario of having an alarm event, cause unknown, while a fogger happens to be in use. It would be very dangerous to conclude that "it's probably just the fogger, do a quick look around the building while we tell the audience to stay in their seats."


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## CrazyTechie (Sep 18, 2010)

teqniqal said:


> *Fire Protection Scavenger Hunt:* Draw a plan of the building and send out teams to mark the locations of any fire protection equipment (Alarm stations, bells, horns, strobes, emergency lights & battery packs), Fire Doors, Fire Curtains, Smoke Vents, Sprinkler heads, valves, flow sensors, smoke/heat detectors, Fire Extinguishers, Fire Hoses, Fire Alarm Control Panels, Exit signs (& battery packs & the Exit sign lamps actually glow). If they are really good, have them note the date of the last inspection tag, if any.



This has motivated me to know the locations of all the pull stations, fire extinguishers, hoses, etc. that are in the theatre building at my college, and to make sure that as many people as possible on the crew know as well. Which is something that didn't happen at my high school...

Everyone should know where this kind of stuff is to prevent any sort of major accident.

Thanks!


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## MNicolai (Sep 18, 2010)

CrazyTechie said:


> Everyone should know where this kind of stuff is to prevent any sort of major accident.



It'd be nice to think that knowing where these things are will prevent major accidents, but in most cases that they need to be used, the emergency is already in progress and these devices serve to reduce the amount of damage.

Furthermore, coordination is also very important in the event of an emergency. My father works as a supervisor at a detention facility for juveniles. A few weeks ago in the gym a ballast went out on one of the light fixtures in the gymnasium. The ballast then heated up, started on fire some 40' above the floor and the fire very quickly caused the plastic to melt around the metal brackets holding the fixture up. The fixture then fell to the floor, still on fire, and caused the coating on the gymnasium floor to quickly catch fire. Because of the material coating the floor, the fireball caused a vast amount of smoke to build up in the room.

At some point, one of the faculty members called the fire department, but at no time did someone think to hit the pull station _because the fire department was already on the way_. Students and faculty in the adjacent library, as well as campus administrators like my father were completely unaware that anything was going on until the fire department showed up at the gatehouse demanding to get their trucks through both barbed wire fences.

Worse yet, apparently this isn't the first time that one of those ballasts have failed in that manner; this one just had more fizzle and pop with it than the one(s?) before it.

I'd be curious to find out what the gymnasium floor was coated with, how common that is in arenas and other athletic courts, and if anyone is aware how freaking scary that stuff is when it gets lit on fire.


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## derekleffew (Sep 18, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> ...I'd be curious to find out what the gymnasium floor was coated with, how common that is in arenas and other athletic courts, and if anyone is aware how freaking scary that stuff is when it gets lit on fire.


I'm reminded of this thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/safety/6405-seattle-arena-fire-scoreboard.html , and can't help but note that the arena was not evacuated. As a matter of fact, the game was only delayed for ten mintues.

However, and I feel remiss in not mentioning this sooner (I was waiting for someone to bring up people dying from smoke inhalation while refusing to leave their slot machines during a fire, [yes, that has actually happened]): The major difference between an arena/casino and a school theatre: the latter have emergency personnel on site at all times including at least one person whose sole job it is to watch over a fire command annunciator panel, as well as 50-100 security personnel and building engineers to deal with an emergency. It's highly unlikely an educational theatre would have such resources. Therefore, the only prudent action is evacuation, with no readmission until cleared by authorities.


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## CrazyTechie (Sep 19, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> It'd be nice to think that knowing where these things are will prevent major accidents, but in most cases that they need to be used, the emergency is already in progress and these devices serve to reduce the amount of damage.



Let me rephrase: Everyone should know where to find and how to use all the equipment along with the proper procedures and techniques for fighting the situation currently at hand.


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## MNicolai (Sep 19, 2010)

Here's what will always have me nervous: No matter how many security or emergency personnel you have, when 18,000 people think their lives are currently in, or may soon be in immediate danger, even if the risk is minimal, people might leave in a rush. Such a rush that people are crawling on top of each other to make their way to the doors. This is especially the case for situations where smoke can propagate quickly. Few things are scarier than an approaching cloud of black, probably toxic smoke.

Imagine The Station fire, but with sprinklers. I'd speculate even without the building burning to the ground, at least a few dozen would've been injured or killed in the stampede out the door. Certainly not comparable to the number that died that night in the fire, but still a lot in a situation where theoretically no one should have to enter harm's way.


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## starksk (Sep 19, 2010)

Here is the way I think of it: Unless you are properly trained (with all of the appropriate certifications) to determine with 100% accuracy that there is in fact no emergency, AND you are willing to take the moral and *legal* liability for each and every one of your patron's, staff member's, volunteer's, and person who may be hiding in the building just looking for a warm place to sleep for the night's life; evacuate the building. You may lose some revenue that night, but it would dull in comparison to the amount awarded by a judge or jury if you make the wrong call.

Having both participated in and lead evacuations from theatres in both real and non-emergencies, I am constantly surprised at how people react when an alarm is sounded. Some people ignore it, some head straight for the doors, and a fair number wait to see what everyone else is doing. Almost everyone will try, when actually leaving, to head for the door that they came into the space through. (Makes some amount of sense, since that is the only path they remember into the place.)

Make sure you have clearly marked exits and your staff/volunteers are trained to help direct people to the closest safe exit, not just the main entrance. (Remember the closest exit may be behind you.) 

Another thing that I have found is that people instantly respond to panic and uncertainty in someone's voice. If you are leading an evacuation, speak in a calm, clear, and confidently firm manner.

There is no substitute for proper planning and training to handle emergency situations. Hold drills often, mix up the scenarios and the people playing each role, and, as has been said above, make sure everyone knows the location and _*proper operation*_ of every life safety device, including how to actually trigger the fire alarm from a pull station (you'd be surprised), in your facility.


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## gafftaper (Sep 20, 2010)

The simple answer to all this: 
Call your Fire Marshall and ask him to come over and help you put together your emergency plan. Your theater will be better prepared in knowing how to handle a problem, your theater will avoid fines due to doing the wrong thing, and no one will die. 

Second point. For those in educational institutions. Teach everyone on your crew where all the pull stations and extinguishers are. Then somewhere down the road start having pop quizzes. Randomly select a crew person and say, "There's a fire right there. What do you do?" Do this as a regular drill at different times, in different locations, with different crew people.


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## Les (Sep 20, 2010)

CrazyTechie said:


> Let me rephrase: Everyone should know where to find and how to use all the equipment along with the proper procedures and techniques for fighting the situation currently at hand.



Just always remember that your *primary* responsibility is getting people out of the building safely, not fighting fires.

Starksk, you are exactly right on your observations of how audiences react when faced with a potential emergency. Having been present for several false alarms during community theatre productions, I have seen first hand that most people use the "wait and see" approach. It is not the mad dash for the exit that everyone would imagine. Now, if there was visible fire and smoke, the situation would surely be different, but when everything "seems" normal, most people _assume_ it's a false alarm. Let's not let ourselves fall in to that trap. We all know what assuming makes out of 'u and me'. 

Heck, one time at Lowe's, the power suddenly went out causing the fire alarms to go off. Guess what -- every one continued shopping, only now somewhat agitated by the extra noise. Large crowds sure can be fickle.


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## museav (Sep 20, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> The simple answer to all this:
> Call your Fire Marshall and ask him to come over and help you put together your emergency plan. Your theater will be better prepared in knowing how to handle a problem, your theater will avoid fines due to doing the wrong thing, and no one will die.


Definitely! What any of us think is right or should happen does not really matter, it is what the AHJ, the venue's insurance carrier, etc. define should happen that matters.

We may also be overgeneralizing some fairly complex problems. The behavior of large groups in emergencies is one factor considered in developing the life safety and building codes and many exiting problems are often a factor of the facility being code compliant or not rather than the audience reaction. Also keep in mind that many community and educational institution arts venues may not incorporate voice annunciation instead relying on only audible alarms and visual signaling.

Finally, while your sound system may serve well for less critical applications, do not assume that your sound system should be used for announcements during life safety emergencies. Unless the audio system and components are specifically approved for such use and the system had been tested and verified to meet any applicable intelligibility criteria then it is probably best to assume the system should not be used, and perhaps should even be muted or powered down, in such situations.


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## Chris15 (Sep 21, 2010)

museav said:


> Finally, while your sound system may serve well for less critical applications, do not assume that your sound system should be used for announcements during life safety emergencies. Unless the audio system and components are specifically approved for such use and the system had been tested and verified to meet any applicable intelligibility criteria then it is probably best to assume the system should not be used, and perhaps should even be muted or powered down, in such situations.


 
And that's without getting into the requirements for redundancy that are needed in any life saftey system. Yes combined emergency / non emergency systems can and are built, particularly for large areas, it is normally a task best left to those you understand both sets of (at times competing) requirements.


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## mstaylor (Sep 21, 2010)

I was doing an event once where we lost power, no fire, the EM generator started but the switch gear failed. We had 5000 patrons we had to clear with just baterry lights and flashlights. It was in an arena with three buidings that the fire dept had to search. It actually went better than I would had thought but the biggest problem was confusion by the crowd.


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## len (Sep 21, 2010)

Personally, I'm not crazy about hanging out and waiting to find out if something is a false alarm. If I hear an alarm, I'm clearing out. I don't care what else I'm told. Happened a couple times at hotels I was staying at. Both times were false alarms, but what if they weren't.


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## MNicolai (Sep 21, 2010)

Another factor to consider is the power of conditioning. Not clearing out during an alarm conditions people to wait around and see what happens. In the event of a real alarm, they don't evacuate unless they see smoke, flame, or another person leaving. While your alarm may actually be false, by them learning to not clear out during alarms that would inconvenience them, they may later be at a place of work or school and decide again to not evacuate.

I worked at a place where there were no strobes or alarms (office space, not a performance venue). All they had were phones that notified you of an emergency. In one case, it was a full week before I noticed that the phone near my desk said "TORNADO WARNING" on it. I asked around and found out that a week before we had been under a tornado warning. It worked a little better during a fire drill, as the phones actually rang, which they hadn't during the tornado warning. Still, every fire alarm there started with everyone looking around going, "You gonna leave?"

I remember a priceless moment in high school after school had already ended for the day. Students were hanging out in hallways, going to extracurriculars. Some teachers went home, but others were still sitting at their desks. The fire alarms went off and nobody moved. I saw one teacher stand up, go into the hallway, look both ways, then go back into his room and close the door. All of the students just stayed where they were in the hallways. Many of those students are now in college dorms, where fire alarms tend to happen often, both as real alarms and as false alarms. They've got a pretty solid impression now not to leave their room unless they see smoke or until someone eventually knocks on their door and tells them to leave. What they don't know is that while they're on the 12th floor, the 3rd floor might be burning up and the longer they wait to get out, the harder it will be to get out alive.

That guy who didn't leave during the alarm? He's the drama dept. head. If I wasn't in the room, he'd happily let a rehearsal continue through a fire alarm. (He's usually really a good guy, but fire protection is one of those things that him and I tend to disagree on -- it inconveniences him. But whenever I'm in the room, he does what he knows I'd want him to do for no other reason than he doesn't want to have that debate with me for the thirty-fifth time...)


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## starksk (Sep 22, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> ... I worked at a place where there were no strobes or alarms (office space, not a performance venue). All they had were phones that notified you of an emergency. In one case, it was a full week before I noticed that the phone near my desk said "TORNADO WARNING" on it. I asked around and found out that a week before we had been under a tornado warning. It worked a little better during a fire drill, as the phones actually rang, which they hadn't during the tornado warning. Still, every fire alarm there started with everyone looking around going, "You gonna leave?" ...



To be fair:

A. When the alarm is actually active, there is a special announcement ring that does not sound anything like a phone ring that rings every extension in the building and plays over the announcement system for those areas without phones. Any room with more than one phone is loud with the ring of the alarm.

B. The alarm also plays into the handset/headset of the phone to alert the person on the phone that there is an alarm and is obnoxious enough to make you want to end the call. Also, you must manually clear the alert from every extension so it is impossible for someone to silence the alarm in their cube without explicitly acknowledging it. (This is why it was still displayed on a rarely used extension)

What does this mean in context? Well, when scheduling drills, be unpredictable. The reason everyone was looking around was to see if this was a part of a rescheduled drill from the last time where weather was not cooperating. In furthering this unpredictability, because this specific place (as most buildings do) requires a primary and alternate escape route, they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan.

One downside to the system used is that there is a need to confirm the type of alarm presented. Even though the tones are slightly different, most people still look at their phone to determine if the alarm is a fire alarm, tornado warning, or giant spider invasion (one of the test alarms). One wouldn't want to evacuate the building in a tornado warning...

Training is the most important part of this equation; knowing your system and how to respond appropriately and guide others to do the same. It is a problem that faces every mass of people in a building, but is something that we can all help to make sure gets done correctly.


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## MNicolai (Sep 22, 2010)

I was told several times how the system was supposed to work, but in practice it never worked as well as they said it was supposed to. There were (_are_) leaks in the system. I was sitting within arm's reach of my phone the afternoon that the tornado warning happened and the threat had come and gone a full 24 hours before I noticed the alert on the phone.

During the actual fire drill where the phones rang, I was at a workbench stripping wires with my headphones on and it wasn't until two guys tapped me on the shoulder that I noticed anything was going on.

The guy who sat directly across the lab from me (who says his phone has never made noise during a fire alarm) also pointed out that to trigger an alarm, you have to call reception. So it's really early in the morning or after hours and there's no one at the reception desk, now what? What if it's after hours and there is someone at the reception desk but I'm the last guy up in the lab and there's no one to tap my shoulder when I've got my headphones on and alarms are going off?

What about the deaf guy?

A system without visual alerts that's not readily triggered and isn't loud enough to be heard by people wearing headphones or ear protection is a system that's very poorly designed for the modern workplace.


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## museav (Sep 23, 2010)

It might be worth addressing that this thread seems to possibly be broaching two different subjects. There are life safety aspects where building code, AHJ, etc. come into play and where what must or cannot be done may be strictly defined. Then there are discretionary announcement systems, such as for severe weather. When I worked for a large consulting engineering firm these two aspects would typically involve two different systems designed by two different groups within the company and installed by two different Contractors.

Since I did not, and do not, work in the life safety aspects I have very limited expertise regarding them. However, I do not know of any that did not require specific visual and aural signaling using dedicated systems.


starksk said:


> In furthering this unpredictability, because this specific place (as most buildings do) requires a primary and alternate escape route, they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan.


Providing and maintaining clear exit paths is a code requirement. A real emergency occurring while they've intentionally impeded the exits could be a real mess. Not to mention that people seeing them doing this makes it being a drill a bit obvious.


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## teqniqal (Sep 24, 2010)

museav said:


> Providing and maintaining clear exit paths is a code requirement. A real emergency occurring while they've intentionally impeded the exits could be a real mess. Not to mention that people seeing them doing this makes it being a drill a bit obvious.


 
The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, but to instead post an individual at this point with a simple placard in their hand that states "This exit is not available for this fire drill exercise." The person should not speak, point, or answer questions. It is the responsibility of the person attempting egress through this path to figure-out what to do next. The 'obstacle’ should note any confusion and report back to the drill director what situations were encountered so that further instructions and training can be provided. Part of the exercise is to teach people to think for themselves and to learn to know multiple exit route strategies.


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## MNicolai (Sep 24, 2010)

Erich is spot on, and it worked very well. They, only for the duration of the drill, placed garbage barrels in front of doorways representing a "fire" or otherwise blocked exit, with a person there with their arms folded just looking forward and not speaking. The idea is to remind people that there are other exits they can take if one is impassable. They do not need to and should not wait for that exit to be cleared unless they have actually had all other options exhausted.

It was the first time I had seen that done and wish schools did that during their drills.


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## derekleffew (Sep 24, 2010)

teqniqal said:


> The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, ...


Exactly. What if the real "obstacle" is the fire itself?
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starksk said:


> ...to determine if the alarm is a fire alarm, tornado warning, or giant spider invasion (one of the test alarms). ...





Work Fails & Job LOLs - Monday Through Friday - Page 5 : "Did you get the memo about the giant spider infestation? Might wanna give it another look."


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## museav (Sep 25, 2010)

teqniqal said:


> The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, but to instead post an individual at this point with a simple placard in their hand that states "This exit is not available for this fire drill exercise."


I understand this, but what was said was "...they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan." Not people and not officials but obstacles that were "put up", which suggests some physical object and thus seems critically different from what you describe. Even placing garbage barrels in the exit path would seem questionable since they would be in the way if a real alarm did occur. It is such details that can be critical and why I get concerned about many safety related discussions. And having been in a building that experienced a real alarm on the day of a scheduled drill, you can't assume a real emergency won't happen when a drill is scheduled.


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## zmb (Sep 25, 2010)

Appraently, the building code in 1983 didn't require fire alarms in every room. So in my school pretty much has alarms in the hallways that probably can't be heard if the classroom is noisy and the bell/buzzer is way more noticeable. Also, depending on where you are in the building, the fastest way out may be going out in the exposed hallway, back into the building, then out to the parking lot.

Sure makes me feel safe along with the cracked ceiling tiles and electical boxes hanging out of the wall


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## Les (Sep 28, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> It was the first time I had seen that done and wish schools did that during their drills.


 
My elementary school did this. Usually it was a janitor holding a sign which read "FIRE".

High school, on the other hand, was way more predictable. The drills were almost ALWAYS during our second block class (so you always took the same route out of the building) and the teacher would usually tell us that there was going to be a fire drill during class. They would get the memo. Terrible system. 

In fact, one time there was a real fire after school and no one knew what to do. Some one set a butcher paper poster on fire in the hallway between our black box theatre and the auditorium. I was walking through the black box on my way to the auditorium where rehearsals were about to take place. Then the alarms started going off, which actually wasn't "alarming", since they always seemed to "test" the system right after school let out. 

When I walked out of the studio and saw the sign on fire, and theatre students quickly exiting the stage through the electric roll-up doors (which were now automatically closing -- think of that scene during Titanic) I then knew it was a real fire. 

Some kid actually ripped the poster down (it was big -- like 6' x 10') and beat it out with his hoodie. A VERY bad idea, especially considering there was a fire extinguisher just down the hallway. But of course, students should never fight fires anyway. 

Funny thing was, the fire was out, the whole wing was full of smoke, the fire alarms were going crazy sounding and shutting down only to start sounding again, and no one ever showed up [to the general evacuation area or the area where the alarm was triggered]. No administrators, teachers or janitors. The fire department didn't even get there for about another 10 minutes, and this was an inner-city school. 

No damage to the school was done, other than some staining on the tile wall. I don't think they ever caught the kid who did it. 

I heard later that other people in the school didn't evacuate until a vice principal ran in to the classroom and said "Get out. it's a REAL fire!"


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## Soxred93 (Sep 28, 2010)

That's exactly what it's like here. It does vary in the time of day from one to the next, but everyone ALWAYS knows about it before it happens. Teachers all tell the students, students tell others, and the entire school knows days before it will happen. When it happens, people take their time getting out, they get their books out of their lockers for the next class, etc etc etc. I dread to think of what would happen if there was a real fire.


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## hitchhiker (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a good take on this.

In addition to my techie duties at the school I work for, I'm also in charge of security plans, (which include fire). We tell our staff (including the theater directors) to evacuate for ANY fire alarm, even if during a performance.

We have a fairly new building (2002). One of the earlier shows we put on the director called for smoke, and dug out this little heated-oil smoke machine. That night after the students and most of the staff left, I called the alarm company and fire dept., told them I was running a test of a smoke machine, and ran the test. Needless to say the alarm went off 4 times in the following 15 minutes (the theater, the hall, the elevator, and the hall one flight up). The only smoke effect I allow now is Dry-ice based effects (ran that test several times - no alarms). 


On the other side of the coin, I heard about show at a public high school in the county where they used oil-based smoke effects. For one particular performance, the kid on the fogger got a little trigger happy, and the fire alarms went off - and kept sounding for like 5 minutes while the_ show went on_. The alarm was apparently reset for a minute, then it went off again. This was toward the end of the show. Eventually the fire-fighters showed up, and right after the show ended - they made everyone leave the building - then let them back in. I heard later that the fire marshall for that town teared the principal and the director at that school new ones.

It's important to remember - for the student techs out there - that schools are schools - whether its during classes or during an evening performance - and that schools are subject to much stricter fire regulations than other places. In Jersey (as well as most other states I'm sure) you are REQUIRED to evacuate a school if the fire alarm goes off - even if you are 100% positive it is the smoke machine.

As for the predictibably of the fire drills, my princial and I only announce the first one of the year and drills that occur on a very cold day. other than those, the only people who know about the drills beforehand are myself and the principal. And we do vary the days and times they occur. (I occasionally pop one in during a class change also.


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## PatrickAngle (Dec 16, 2010)

In our theatre we take fire alarms going off very seriously.

Our high school is in middle of renovations, including new performing arts classrooms along the north side of our theatre. As a result of this construction, all the exits on the north side of our theatre have been deemed unsafe. Those exits account for about 40% of our exits. At the beginning of every show the auditorium director in charge that night goes out to the front of the house and informs the audience of the closed exits, and the resulting fire exit procedures. Our director has also briefed all of us on protocol for fire alarms.

In the past year we have had to evacuate our theatre about 10 times, sometimes during packed award ceremonies, sometimes during drama camps for elementary students, and other times while hanging and focusing lights. All of these alarms have been false, typically caused by dust buildup in smoke detectors due to the construction. At this point, on one is really surprised to hear the fire alarm, and we all jump into action by helping evacuate our house and making sure people move away from the building.


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## Blacksheep0317 (Mar 10, 2011)

I will respond here both as a firefighter and a FOH engineer that recently sent 400 people out of one of my venues during a false alarm. 

My last fire alarm was a obvious haze issue..no contest. However I still asked everyone to leave the building. Even though it was February. In Buffalo NY. Getting a clear image?

But, that is what the fire pre-plan was. Every public space "should" have a emergency pre-plan. Most places will say to leave the building, however some large spaces may tell you to stay where you are unless you are in an immediate life danger environment. Reasoning? Many.. In a smaller one room venue like many theaters it may be simple to get everyone out in a simple, timely manner and have a place for them all to go. But, to mention the example previous, someplace like LV where you may have over 1500 people in your room, plus the rest of the hotel, casino, and assorted connected structures, you may actually put people in harm by trying to evacuate. Many larger venues have systems in place to isolate certain areas within them and so as to keep people in a certain area safer and to make evacuation of the immediate danger area faster, safer and easier. This also makes the job of accounting for people easier and helps eliminate the unnecessary danger of sending fireman to search for someone who is standing separate from everyone else. 

Long story short, find your pre-plan. Know it, make sure your people know it, and practicing it doesn't hurt. If you don't have a plan, get together with the jurisdiction in your area and make one. A failure to plan is a plan to fail, and as shown in the past, failures here lead to lots of death.


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## derekleffew (Dec 3, 2011)

MNicolai said:


> Here's what will always have me nervous: No matter how many security or emergency personnel you have, when 18,000 people think their lives are currently in, or may soon be in immediate danger, even if the risk is minimal, people might leave in a rush. Such a rush that people are crawling on top of each other to make their way to the doors. This is especially the case for situations where smoke can propagate quickly. Few things are scarier than an approaching cloud of black, probably toxic smoke.


http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/25093-small-fire-breaks-out-rihanna-concert.html


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## MNicolai (Dec 3, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/25093-small-fire-breaks-out-rihanna-concert.html


 
Point well made.


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