# Help Identifying Asbestos in Old Lighting



## azcatman (Apr 19, 2012)

Hello all. I picked up a pallet of old theater lighting recently at an auction, and after doing some research I found this forum. What I think I have are some old Century Fresnels and Lekos. The Lekos (I have two) are 2321, I think. And the fresnels (I have five) are 3413. I also picked up two 2kw Super Scoops, and some Kliegl Scoops as well. The wiring concerns me, and I want to confirm whether or not it's asbestos wiring.If it is, I plan on reading all the safety info on asbestos wiring listed on this forum again (already read a couple times) and either cut the cords or just trash the lights. Thanks for any and all help. Attached are some photos.Oh, and if these lights are salvageable, anyone know where I can find two u-brackets for the fresnels? Two brackets are missing.


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## Lambda (Apr 19, 2012)

azcatman said:


>



The "fuzzy" wire on the left is definitely asbestos. As for the white and red cloth-insulated wire, I'm not sure. All the asbestos wire I've seen has that fuzzy appearance, although it's possible that the cloth insulation still contains asbestos. You might want to replace it anyway. 
We've got those same Century fresnels at my school, part of the original 1965 lighting inventory. With modern cords on them, we still use a couple on rare occasions.


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## derekleffew (Apr 19, 2012)

azcatman said:


> ...Oh, and if these lights are salvageable, anyone know where I can find two u-brackets for the fresnels? Two brackets are missing.


You'll need to fabricate a yoke. Get yourself some 1/8" x 1.5" strap iron, drill two sides holes, one 1/2" yoke bolt hole in the center, and bend away. You'll need to change away from the "disc brake" tilt lock mechanism though, unless you want to add a bunch more work for yourself, including drilling a square hole for the carriage bolt.

And yes, the white fluffy wires ARE asbestos insulated. How to proceed is dependent on one's risk assessment and fear level. You'll find much via a search.

Why on earth would someone paint a Century Fresnel that shade of green? Odd that the yellow screw focus handle is almost universal though.


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## ship (Apr 19, 2012)

Most don't seem like they are (more fuzzy ones are and the others probably not but could be with a coating but probably not) but bag and cut them all none the less with plug. It's a safety thing in doubful wiring also - would you plug in and leave any of these on all night long while you sleep?

I would not cut beyond the cord grip in removal but on the 8" Fresnel, it is asbestos in say noting "cords cut" leave it there in that the rest of the asbestos cable inside the fixture plus any dust from it is implied to be still there. That or cut at the lamp socket the asbestos all of it and be able to note asbestos removed once vaccumed out well. "Un-Wired" might be appropriate for this.

Wouldn't go past the lamp socket as it's probably solder welded wiring to it. Would be nice if cleaned but it is as it were as asbestos removed. The other fixture probably won't be soldered at the lamp socket.

Nice fixtures, too bad I already have examples of both. Given the punch out holes, note what type of socket is in the Century/Strand Leko as I think possibly a G-9.5 bi-pin possible. Given the optics of this Leko, it's still a viable up to 360Q viable fixture. On the 8" Fresnel... hard market, I prefer crank style but 8" Fresnels are mostly sold to them with bigger stages and they don't often think used when thinking of increasing inventory. If you can't sell it and sorry to say... it's lens alone in standardized part and very expensive might be worth more than the fixture if sold alone but I would try for the fixture first in helping someone else with a new home for it/them.


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## ship (Apr 19, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> You'll need to fabricate a yoke. Get yourself some 1/8" x 1.5" strap iron, drill two sides holes, one 1/2" yoke bolt hole in the center, and bend away. You'll need to change away from the "disc brake" tilt lock mechanism though, unless you want to add a bunch more work for yourself, including drilling a square hole for the carriage bolt.
> 
> And yes, the white fluffy wires ARE asbestos insulated. How to proceed is dependent on one's risk assessment and fear level. You'll find much via a search.
> 
> Why on earth would someone paint a Century Fresnel that shade of green? Odd that the yellow screw focus handle is almost universal though.



Agreed and interesting on even some 100 year old gear, seen a lot of green and other paint on parts over the origional color. Even seen the yellow of the focus screw before. Good question in if after market or what extent.

Granted square hole, Grade .5 carriage bolt best to use and knob normally 5/16-18 in size. Might combine some in bulk and sell others individually in not fixing this yoke problem. Not a huge problem to solve but if it don't sell as a combined sale it becomes re-listed as "spare parts" fixture and or otherwise a concept. 

I wonder in viability in assuming 8" Fresnel but might be 6" how comperable it is to Altman parts for similar current fixtures. Just a thought.


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## derekleffew (Apr 20, 2012)

ship said:


> ... Given the punch out holes, note what type of socket is in the Century/Strand Leko as I think possibly a G-9.5 bi-pin possible. ...


Every one of these I've ever seen has had a medium prefocus (P28s) socket. (Except for mine, which came fitted with a poorly-wired E26. )


ship said:


> ... Given the optics of this Leko, it's still a viable up to 360Q viable fixture. ...


Disagree. While the gray die-cast Lekolite may have been the best radial of its time, it can never compare to any axial ERS. (Okay, maybe it _could_ beat a 1KL, but so could my 2AA Mini Maglite. )


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## azcatman (Apr 20, 2012)

Thanks very much for the replies. Sounds like the fuzzy wires are asbestos, and possibly the cloth ones too. I've already found some links to purchase the correct, heat-resistant wire, thanks to this forum. The lights are not the prettiest, I'm not a fan of the green either, but they seem to be in fine mechanical shape, except for the missing brackets and the asbestos wire. I'm planning on using them, if I can make them safe. Here are some more photos.


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## derekleffew (Apr 20, 2012)

azcatman said:


> ...


What a great example of the mogul bipost and mogul prefocus socket s side by side in seemingly the exact same fixture. Much later (20+ years or so), the one on the left would be the termed "studio" version, and the right the "theatre" version.


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## ship (Apr 20, 2012)

Derek and I often disagree as if co-workers in both at least eventually agreeing to the same points or agreeing to disagree where not safety and just difference or concept of how. This is very healthy in debate and discussion plus in choosing your own option.

Green Fresnel, I see taped off preserved markings and wouldn't change it at all. Just get them diagional side cutting pliers in there and cut what you can in asbestos removal.

On the links or sounds like you are looking to re-wire to make safe the fixture theoretically for more resale value? No, don't bother. The person that you sell a un-wired fixture to will be liable for sending it to someone qualified or be more qualified than you to be wiring it up. 

As per quite a few statements on "Antiques Roadshow", wiring of an antique light is not detremental to the value of a light. Safe and good work to it though could increase value - but improper work could decrease or make unsafe it and become a liability question for you if you say it's safe. This as a concept to wealth of gear I and others work on professionally and museum of gear also worked on at times also. If thinking just about purchacing some wiring, best cutting what you can and leaving alone or sending to a professional to restore unless you want to read a lot and ask lots of questions. There is so many details to proper wiring and servicing you can only read about at best a lot further such as posts about restoring a Fresnel for a start.

Your fixtures are seemingly in very "used" condition. Attempting to retore them to factory/spec. is a fun project, but for resale value probably isn't worth your effort unless wanting the effort and probably not worth the end result of the learning how to.

Interesting scoops. Again, leave them alone or cut the wiring in I don't think it will hurt value but be a courtousy. Want to learn how to fix the fixtures and make them presteme... man/hours will probably out-weigh resale value but it would be cheaper than restoring an old car.


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## azcatman (Apr 20, 2012)

ship said:


> On the links or sounds like you are looking to re-wire to make safe the fixture theoretically for more resale value?



Not interested in selling- I want to use them. I mentioned this above. I don't want or need them to be pristine- just safe and working. They are already working, actually. The bulbs are good, and the ones with edison plugs I've tested and they light up fine. So i just need to make them safe- I'm not into carcinogens. The furry cables will be cut with all due caution to my lungs- I have a nice mask and will take all precautions afterwards with cleaning myself. I'll make sure to inspect all the wires on the others for condition and I'm prepared to replace all.

Thanks for the replies, and thanks for the tip on fabricating my own yokes. Really appreciate it!!


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## jonliles (Apr 20, 2012)

To help minimize the dust, spray the cords down with water before handling. Bag it. Cut it. Proceed at your own risk.


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## JD (Apr 20, 2012)

On the non-fuzzy wires, open up one of the plugs and look at what is inside that weave. If it looks like soft rubber, then chances are they are fiberglass covered silicon. The right-hand fixture in the first picture look like some of the braid is broken exposing what looks like silicon rubber. If this is the case, someone already changed out the Asbestos wires on those fixtures. Commonly known as "aircraft wire", it was used before modern high-temp wiring became available. It's a little too easy to damage it, but at least it won't shed off the old poison dust!


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## ship (Apr 22, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Every one of these I've ever seen has had a medium prefocus (P28s) socket. (Except for mine, which came fitted with a poorly-wired E26. )
> 
> Disagree. While the gray die-cast Lekolite may have been the best radial of its time, it can never compare to any axial ERS. (Okay, maybe it _could_ beat a 1KL, but so could my 2AA Mini Maglite. )



Guess the one I bought from Clyde's collection don't exist given it has a G-9.5 socket and shouldn't have had one even if very factory spec. in cap for doing so. The other one was a P-28s and it also I would still stand by my bench focus in being just as good as a 360Q in observation. This given I have also gotten some good bench focuses out of 360 series fixtures. Most probably were P-28s, but Century/Strand in this radial did go bi-pin before axial in say Strand.

Your Mag light can not out punch a properly benched 360 series fixture but we digress I suspect.

By the way, from Clyde's collection, have one P-28s version up for sale - contact in E-Mail to get done.


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## Samtin (Jun 15, 2020)

Hi! Wondering if anyone can help identify whether this wiring is asbestos coated? I’ve got two old theatre lights, one Barton and one Mole Richardson.. and I’d like to restore them but am cautious to check if they may contain asbestos first.
Any advice is much appreciated!
Sam


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## ship (Jun 16, 2020)

You show non-asbestos sleeving of some kind I have seen. Not asbestos. What is under the sleeving? Better extensive photos, but so far not to be very concerned if of help.


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