# Scrim Placement, Why?



## JackMVHS (Mar 6, 2010)

Hey guys,

I am trying to figure out why the scrim at our school is placed where it is, and how you would use it in its placement.

I would appreciate any insight to why it would be hung where it is, how YOU would use it (if you would), and if there are any cool lighting tricks that you could do with it.

Our Stage:
Back wall
Cyclorama
White sharkstooth scrim
Traveler
Baton
Baton
3rd Electric with Cyc Lights
Then it continues with batons, 2 more electrics and other curtains.

Currently we use the Cyc for lighting effects and such and the scrim is tied up on the baton so that it is not visible (we have minimal fly space).

So, is it worth it to bring the scrim in as well? What would it be used for?

Thanks for helping me make sense of this!
~Jack


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## seanandkate (Mar 6, 2010)

How much space between cyc and scrim?


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## JackMVHS (Mar 6, 2010)

seanandkate said:


> How much space between cyc and scrim?



Sorry, forgot to include distances.

It goes back wall, then 1' to cyc, then about 1' to scrim, then about 1' to traveler, then 2 batons each about 1' apart, and then the 3rd electic, which is about 4-6' away from the cyc and scrim.

Hope that helps


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## MSLD (Mar 6, 2010)

I saw the national tour of Porgy and Bess put our house scrim in front of their backdrop and they said it was because it added a little texture to the drop. 

That may not be the case of your scrim, but i thought that was rather interesting


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## erosing (Mar 6, 2010)

Scrims can be used for a lot of things, you can effectively black out anything behind them at times, you can use them to add depth, you can paint them with light from behind to make really fluid effects, you can project on or through them. 

What you want to do with it really decides where you should put it. I like them fairly downstage if the set allows it. 

Don't be afraid to expiriment with its placement,there is no hard rule on scrim placement other then just don't put it somewhere you know it will be damaged.


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## JackMVHS (Mar 6, 2010)

Arez said:


> Scrims can be used for a lot of things, you can effectively black out anything behind them at times, you can use them to add depth, you can paint them with light from behind to make really fluid effects, you can project on or through them.
> 
> What you want to do with it really decides where you should put it. I like them fairly downstage if the set allows it.
> 
> Don't be afraid to expiriment with its placement,there is no hard rule on scrim placement other then just don't put it somewhere you know it will be damaged.




The thing is, the scrim is the height of the stage and we have only about 10' of fly space. Sooo it is either on stage or it is tied up onto the batton. It would have to be visible for the entire show. This is probably why it is in the very back of the stage. 

What I am wondering is, if we lower the scrim for a show, would it serve any purpose or be useful for any type of lighting effect. Seeing as the electric is downstage of the scrim and the cyc and back wall is directly behind the scrim, would it really do much good?


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## SteveB (Mar 6, 2010)

No real need for a white scrim in front of a white cyc when the cyc lights are downstage of all. 

No real use for a white scrim in general in my opinion.

Having any scrim in front of the cyc, when the cyc lighting is between cyc and scrim does allow the scrim to diffuse the image of the cyc and helps with cyc lighting that has scalloping, or generally doesn't provide for an even wash. We use a black scrim DS of MR16 cyc lights and a white cyc and it works well, though cutting a bit of intensity. A Black scrim also helps keep FOH floor reflection off the cyc. 

In use that I've seen, a white scrim tends to gather all the ambient FOH, overhead and side lighting that you wish wasn't seen and wouldn't be if it was a black scrim.

It sounds like in your case, the only place to put the cyc lighting is on 3E, making a white or black scrim upstage of the 3E useless, which is why it's bundled out of use.


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## JackMVHS (Mar 6, 2010)

SteveB said:


> No real need for a white scrim in front of a white cyc when the cyc lights are downstage of all.
> 
> No real use for a white scrim in general in my opinion.
> 
> ...



Thats what I figured, I was just trying to see if there would have been a reason a WHITE scrim would have been installed BETWEEN the third electric and the cyc.

I doubt it has ever been used in the auditoriums 10 year life so far, and just wanted to see if there would be some kind of cool lighting effect that I could do with it to make it useful. To me it just seems pointless. Typical of a public high school.


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## seanandkate (Mar 7, 2010)

SteveB said:


> No real use for a white scrim in general in my opinion.



+1 Now if you can get it dyed _black_ for a decent price, then you have something useful on your hands . . .


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## SteveB (Mar 7, 2010)

For a somewhat more esoteric use, you can use a white scrim downstage of a cyc, if you have cyc lighting placed between the scrim and cyc. It's not uncommon to see this with both overhead cyc lights as well as ground row units (with appropriate masking/scenic ground row) direct lighting the cyc. The white scrim helps diffuse the imaging of the cyc units as well as adding depth. Problems occur if you are unable to carefully control the angle of incidence of the rest of the plot so as to reduce to eliminate as much as possible, the spill from other lighting equipment. Follow spots particulary, can cause a huge problem with reflection off the floor on to the white scrim.


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## Footer (Mar 7, 2010)

Agreed with Steve, in general the only time I use a scrim onstage is just DS of the electric that is lighting the cyc. It allows the cyc to go away if you are not lighting it. Very useful for dance. 

If you are not using the scrim now and its just hanging out in front of the cyc, take it down and store it. I have done cool things with white scrims before because you can use it like a cyc and then make it go away to reveal something. They are also very useful if you want to paint it.


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## briancon7 (Mar 8, 2010)

I used a scrim to make a more realistic look for twinkling stars. We put the scrim in front of a fiber drop and it made it look real.


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## JChenault (Mar 8, 2010)

Putting a white scrim in front of the cyc as you have described makes the cyc appear softer and harder to focus on. It's just a prettier surface to light.

Now you can't make the cyc go away, or do reveals behind it but it looks nicer for a number of uses


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