# Close Call in Atlanta



## TheaterEd (Feb 12, 2014)

> ATLANTA (CBS ATLANTA) -
> Atlanta's popular concert venue, Tabernacle, would normally be rocking on a Saturday night. But an unstable floor forced the venue's staff to cancel musician Corey Smith's show for the evening.
> 
> Smith said he found out he might get canceled during a show the night before in Jackson, MS. He said it really disappointed him when he got the final news early Saturday as he rolled into town.
> ...



Source: http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/24669466/the-tabernacle-evacuates-concert


Anyone here with ties to the Tabernacle? From the sounds of it, they got lucky.


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## jonliles (Feb 12, 2014)

Only ties I have is the amount of time and money I spent in there. Lots of fun times. Hopefully they will have it repaired quickly .


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## MNicolai (Feb 12, 2014)

So if those are structural joists, how kosher is it that what appears to be conduits are drilled through them? Wouldn't that compromise the integrity of the joists (although it doesn't appear to be where the joists failed in this case).

Another possibility is that it's rebar, but it looks pretty seriously bent outta whack to be rebar, and based on the hole patterns doesn't appear to have been run straight if it was rebar...

Probably a moot point as the failure patterns don't appear to be related to these holes drilled through the joists.


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## soundman (Feb 12, 2014)

That place is a beautiful crap hole. Its a nice looking venue but after only playing there once I hope I don't have to go back.


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## josh88 (Feb 12, 2014)

MNicolai said:


> So if those are structural joists, how kosher is it that what appears to be conduits are drilled through them? Wouldn't that compromise the integrity of the joists (although it doesn't appear to be where the joists failed in this case).
> 
> Another possibility is that it's rebar, but it looks pretty seriously bent outta whack to be rebar, and based on the hole patterns doesn't appear to have been run straight if it was rebar...



I don't think it's conduit or rebar, I think it's just wires run through the holes. It's too small to be much else and that would explain why it's able to bend like that, it's just slack in the wire.


Via tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 12, 2014)

Looks like Romex or a predecessor. I can't remember exact rule for cutting two-byjoists but maybe holes that are a third or fourth of depth and not in center third. Or similar. Should be able to find with Google.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 12, 2014)

I meant to add this does not look like a floor designed for assembly occupancies. This looks like residential or maybe retail - maybe 50 or 60 psf, not the 100 psf required for assembly.


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## SteveB (Feb 13, 2014)

It looks like NMC painted black. I think it's compliant in joists in residential, can't say for commercial or assembly, but the thru holes are supposed to be deeper in the joist to avoid screws and nails, if memory serves.


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## n1ist (Feb 13, 2014)

They are probably far enough back; according to NEC, you only need nail plates if the wire is less than 1-1/4" from the face of the stud or joist.
/mike


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 13, 2014)

http://diy.stackexchange.com/questi...tswhat-are-the-guidelines-for-holes-in-joists

One of many pages found by Google. I was thinking structural integrity, not electrical safety. I think how tolerant the minimum structure is indicates the significant design factors inherent in regulation. Of course looks like not significant enough in the example.


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## josh88 (Feb 13, 2014)

well if I remember what Mike Holmes has taught me from watching lots of Holmes on Holmes (And seems to be backed up by Bill's link), I think holes in the middle third are alright and he prefers to never notch floor joists even if its permitted in some areas. And it looks like those in the picture near the line between bottom and middle third. 

That really was a lucky catch, still sort of terrifying and shouldn't happen period, but nice to have a story like this not _*actually*_ be a stage collapse.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 13, 2014)

Engineers have told me that the 1X4 bridging in the photo is nearly worthless for strength and other means of bridging work much better. Photo seems to confirm that.


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## WestlakeTech (Feb 13, 2014)

Nobody's made a Panic! At The Tabernacle joke yet?


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## Senorfish (Feb 25, 2014)

Interesting how you can see some of the cracks starting around big knots in the wood (painted over and a little hard to see... but that's where it cracked). The cable looks to me like flexible metal sheilded conduit, which is fine. And for flooring joists a boring hole up to 1/3 the depth of the joist is allowed... which this example is nowhere near that but imagine if they were, yikes! Notching is not permitted in the center 1/3 section of the span of the joist... from these pictures you can't tell if there's notching but I doubt it since the cable is run near the bottom.


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## lwinters630 (Feb 26, 2014)

The cables are not the issue, and at the time they were run they had very lax codes. The cause would seem to be overloading the floor above. Just like splitting firewood, enough pressure and even the largest log will split, usually following a grain line. Once one gives way, load is transferred to the next ones and so on.

From the picture, we can only guess, but it was not a slow sag, It would have been a loud SNAP!


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 26, 2014)

Agree with Larry - simple overload - age and change of use. We don't know if a support under the joists was altered, if a lift truck or scissors lift or other was used above, or just a mosh pit. Put a chorus on most floors designed for 50 PSF or so, start jumping or stamping in rythym, and it is likely to be overloaded.


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## TheaterEd (Feb 26, 2014)

This occurred during a concert under the area where the crowd was. 300 people jumping in unison are a force to be reckoned with.


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