# Strategy for upgrading theater lighting



## MohaveScott (Apr 16, 2018)

Our local high school has a well equipped theater and we are looking to develop a strategy for upgrading some/all of the conventional stage lighting fixtures to LED. The goal is to reduce maintenance and save money on power and lamps. Our budget will most probably require upgrades to be done over a number of years, thus the need for an incremental plan as opposed to a total switch out.

My fundamental question is what business case others have found when they have switched to LED fixtures? Also I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep the current lights and invest in a few moving spots or washes that could add new lighting design options?

The current system is based on a large configuration Strand dimmer rack (140 channels in an SD80?) and a Strand 200 console.

We currently have the following lights:

30 Altman Par 64s, 4 165Q Altman fresnels, 30+ Strand SL 23/50 Ellipsoidals & 5 Altman Scoops

Thanks for any thoughts.

Scott


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## MohaveScott (Apr 17, 2018)

sorry I believe the dimmer rack is a Strand CD80.


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## ship (Apr 17, 2018)

Ok equipped in later 80's concept of not needing Leko's now that we have PAR 64 fixture. Check your boneyard for the fixtures removed and replaced in the last upgrade so as to see if you can save some money in bringing them back up stairs with some work and modern lamps. This for a start. 

Par Cans making up half your directed light as similar to Leko - but not is specifically a problem. But keep that concept a secret to those bidding out during the process. Are you a student or helping the staff? Need to know this in how much direct contact you verses the principal or teacher has with the retailer. Only the principal or drama teacher will be able to ask further questions one could provide in upgrading to LED and dimmers/control booth need. 

Challenge is getting sold something, and possibly it's all that is needed but won't be sufficient to your program - but perhaps might have control available for the future. Working within a budget to get you good lighting to design around and perhaps getting some LED goal. And many other concepts to work with in your situation.


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## MohaveScott (Apr 17, 2018)

ship I am retired and help the school staff research issues related to their sound and lighting systems. The last upgrade was 12 years ago and there aren't any leftovers. I have only been in this city for 2 years so I don't have detailed knowledge of the history.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2018)

Your instinct to add some movers and perhaps to upgrade cyc lighting to LED makes sense. You have the distribution, good dimmers, and some basic instruments. Time and time again it's been shown electrical savings from converting stage lighting yo LED are insignificant. You will need a new console to satisfactorily control movers and LED.

Probably retrofitting dimmer electronics and either adding some relay controlled circuits or buying relay modules for existing is necessary. And adding data distribution.

You can probably do most of the simple upgrade for $50-100k. A wholesale conversion for similar function is probably in the $300-400k range. Both can be spread out but that's simpler with upgrade approach.


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## MohaveScott (Apr 17, 2018)

Thanks for the perspective Bill. The amount of power consumed by the dimmer racks and the related heat and noise, made me initially leap to the 'replace it all' perspective. However, after some initial research and watching them use the theater during different times of the school day and for different productions, it seemed that they might be just as well served by:

1. Adding some LED fixtures that provide new 'looks' instead of just replacing the older lights with similar LED fixtures
2. Updating their light control board to be easier to use and more powerful scene storage capabilities
3. Getting a set of LED fixtures to create a bright but low power 'work lighting' or 'general purpose' scene set for non-theatrical use of the stage. (Often I come into the room and they will have 30 or more lights burning on an empty stage....)
4. Buy some moving LED lights (wash, spot, etc.) to speed up the lighting design process. The current lights over the stage are on 3 trusses dropped by hoists. They spend a fair amount of time dropping the truss, aiming lights, raising it, evaluating the beam positions, then doing it all again. Obviously they can't re-aim the lights or change the colors during the performance, all of which would be possible with a few moving head LED fixtures.

This journey is just starting and I have a lot to learn. The sad thing is I know more now (which isn't much) than they do so the real challenge is how to get them a training plan that will persist through changes in staff and students.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2018)

House lights, work lights, and cyc lights - in that order - for led replacement. Imho.


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## JohnD (Apr 17, 2018)

A few thoughts, first off, we really like pictures here, of the space and the existing equipment. It seems you have a surplus of dimmer circuits, since you seem to only be using half of them. As far as the CD80 rack, take a look at this thread for some good advice:
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/strand-cd80-rack.35798/#post-310640
That brings me to the question, is your CD80 amx or dmx. If it is already dmx you're good to go, in not, see the above listed thread.
Take a look at the posts by @sdauditorium , especially this one:
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/led-conversion-upcoming.43179/
As far as work lights, take a look at the Osram Kreios flx 90, it's a great worklight and it can be plugged into a dimmed circuit unlike most LED fixtures. However, it doesn't dim down smoothly to zero so not good for use during a show.


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## MohaveScott (Apr 17, 2018)

I spent a few minutes today at the auditorium. After getting back into the dimmer room, I was able to open the racks and discovered the dimmers were C21's not CD80. They were manufactured in 2006/7 which is roughly when the auditorium/theater was updated.

Per JohnD's request, I took photos and stored them on a dropbox. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wvr602xd83eidhf/AAC6g8eEtYDdcSj1YDh9UbONa?dl=0


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2018)

Nearly current product. Shouldn't need to retrofit electronics.

If things are not working, you need a technician, but it shouldn't be bad.

Your fixture inventory is a little anemic is all. And a modern console. They advertise a "power through" module for that rack. (How original.) Get some for easiest way to power LED. And build inventory: S4, led cyc, and maybe a few movers. Over time build up led wash units.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 21, 2018)

I was going to make a comment on the exact model of CD-80 determining if you needed an electronics retrofit to buy non-dim relay modules, but I see you've updated the information in that it is not a CD-80.


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 22, 2018)

Bill:
> Time and time again it's been shown electrical savings from converting stage lighting to LED are insignificant.

Huh?


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## sdauditorium (Apr 22, 2018)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Bill:
> > Time and time again it's been shown electrical savings from converting stage lighting to LED are insignificant.
> 
> Huh?


I'm inferring that to mean he's referring to the oft-quoted 10-15 year payback to recoup the cost of fixture expenditures by going to LED?


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## RickR (Apr 22, 2018)

There have been a couple of published studies on "greening" theaters. Many of us involved in planning facilities have done our own site specific calculations. Cost of power = power * length of time in use

In short there just aren't enough hours of use of stage lighting.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 22, 2018)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Bill:
> > Time and time again it's been shown electrical savings from converting stage lighting to LED are insignificant.
> 
> Huh?



I'd have to search but the most definitive study was I think at Oregon Shakespeare Festival and the energy used for stage lighting was like a couple of percent of the energy used for the building. It did not make any sense on any basis to focus on converting the theatre lighting to LED for energy savings - would never pay back.


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## josh88 (Apr 22, 2018)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Huh?


There have been a bunch of studies that show the reduced power usage doesn't really result in much savings, even after you include hvac/gel/and lamps the total hours of use generally don't result in anything worth citing as a reason to make the change.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 22, 2018)

sdauditorium said:


> I'm inferring that to mean he's referring to the oft-quoted 10-15 year payback to recoup the cost of fixture expenditures by going to LED?



10-15 years is maybe for general lighting, like a school or office building, not stage and studio lighting. That's why house lights and work lights first - time on - then cyc - but that's almost more about gel and lamp replacement - and lamp replacement is a primary reason for changing to LED.


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## SteveB (Apr 22, 2018)

Seattle Rep study showed that the theatrical lighting accounted for 2% of the total building load in a year. That essentially meant no payback for energy savings in moving to stage lighting LED’s, short term and likely for the life of the fixture. 

Savings in labor and expendables might be significant, and as others have stated, you then look at where your labor costs go for lamp and color changing. House lamps, if they get used as work lighting, but an option to just install LED work lamps is suggested, then use incandescent house lamps for maybe 2 hrs. per performance and rehearsal only. Cyc also a good choice as the incandescents are typically wattage and color media hogs. 

Then be thinking about adding capability for design options. LED and some movers for this, but likely and foremost is a control upgrade that allows easy use of these fixtures. Then fixtures with an eye back at labor and expendables to be locating fixtures in places where they are difficult to reach and where fewer color and position changing fixtures can do the jobs of multiple incandescents.


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## RickR (Apr 22, 2018)

A Texas school, sorry memory fails, did a study as well.


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## derekleffew (Apr 22, 2018)

@STEVETERRY has told the story of an energy usage study by Consolidated Edison when a large NYC company changed from 1000W Lekos to 575W SourceFours in the 1990s. I'll leave it to him to provide the punchline.
.


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## STEVETERRY (Apr 22, 2018)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> I'd have to search but the most definitive study was I think at Oregon Shakespeare Festival and the energy used for stage lighting was like a couple of percent of the energy used for the building. It did not make any sense on any basis to focus on converting the theatre lighting to LED for energy savings - would never pay back.



It was the Seattle Rep study by Katie Oman. I am attaching the link here from the Fall 2013 edition of ESTA Protocol. 

http://edition.pagesuite-profession...me=&edid=444f8e2e-96bb-41de-8eb7-ca450656911e

It should be required reading for all.

ST


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## STEVETERRY (Apr 22, 2018)

derekleffew said:


> @STEVETERRY has told the story of an energy usage study by Consolidated Edison when a large NYC company changed from 1000W Lekos to 575W SourceFours in the 1990s. I'll leave it to him to provide the punchline.
> .



Hmmm... I guess you mean the building formerly known as the New York State Theatre at Lincoln Center?

ST


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## SteveB (Apr 22, 2018)

STEVETERRY said:


> Hmmm... I guess you mean the building formerly known as the New York State Theatre at Lincoln Center?
> 
> ST



Pissed me off to no end to recall that State Theater and The Joyce, as well as City Center got State of NY Power Authority grants to go S4. When we applied, explaining that our power is actually provided by the SNYPA thru Con-Ed they told us we didnt qualify. We got ‘me in the end by doing City Arts Council grants.


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## derekleffew (Apr 22, 2018)

STEVETERRY said:


> Hmmm... I guess you mean the building formerly known as the New York State Theatre at Lincoln Center?


I don't remember, which is why I left it up to you. My takeaway was that the energy savings was no where near that anticipated, and that was going from 1000W to 575W, versus going 575W to 100 (or so)W.


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## JonCarter (Apr 22, 2018)

I can see an economic saving for LED conversion at an outdoor theatre. (No house lights except for 20 min. after a show; no work lights. Yeah, a few lights at the bar & dressing rooms. Oh, yeah, a power saw or two to build sets.) We had 245 kW in stage lights back in the day. Granted, that was with everything at "10". but that was a rare occurrence. Now, do we have a good LED leko that'll deliver 100 fC @ a 150' throw???


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## derekleffew (Apr 22, 2018)

JonCarter said:


> ... Now, do we have a good LED leko that'll deliver 100 fC @ a 150' throw???


Do we have ANY 1000W, 2000W, or 3000W conventional Leko that will do that? 

A SourceFour 5° 750W HPL gives about 60 F.C. at 150'. 
A Strand-Century #2123, 1000W FEL, 10x23 Single Lens gives (peak distribution) 39 FC at 150'.
A Strand-Century #2669, 2000W BVA, 12x12 Stepped Lens gives 50 FC at about 115'. 

Appears the answer is no.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 23, 2018)

"Say, these LED fixtures use a third the power while being brighter..."
"It seems a shame to only use a couple amps on a 20A circuit"
"Alright, let's use three times as many fixtures"



derekleffew said:


> A Strand-Century #2123, 1000W FEL, 10x23 Single Lens gives (peak distribution) 39 FC at 150'.
> Appears the answer is no.



Can we leave those in the 80s?
Please?
I'm trapped in a college theatre that's running these and Colortran lekos with 1000W FELs.

I just watched the handle melt off a shutter and land next to me.
I also just pulled several bulbs to scrape the crud from arcing off of the contacts.


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## DELO72 (Apr 23, 2018)

EdSavoie said:


> "Say, these LED fixtures use a third the power while being brighter..."
> 
> I'm trapped in a college theatre that's running these and Colortran lekos with 1000W FELs.



Trapped? Why are they still using FELs? Have the M.E. switch to the GLD or GLC lamp. MUCH more efficient, better filament design (for capturing the lumens inside the reflector), at less wattage. One of the first tings I did when I was a Master Elec. was swap out all FELs to GLDs (750W) & GLCs (575W). Saved energy, reduced the # of fixtures that melted from heat, and gave out just as much (or more) light from the fixture.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 23, 2018)

I'm being a _ Touch _ dramatic when I say trapped, our program runs two productions at once. One part runs a production at the college, while the rest of us go down to the theatre. The program doesn't own enough Source Fours to go around, so they get used for the main campus production.

Thus leaving us with the scraps 

Can't comment on the bulbs, the TD here does a few things that strike me as... Different...


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 23, 2018)

I'll just point out here that if you don't save any money on the power bill, net net, because you triple the number of fixtures, then that's not a fair test, and let it drop; it still seems wildly counterintuitive to me that the fair test doesn't save money.


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## SteveB (Apr 23, 2018)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I'll just point out here that if you don't save any money on the power bill, net net, because you triple the number of fixtures, then that's not a fair test, and let it drop; it still seems wildly counterintuitive to me that the fair test doesn't save money.



I don’t think many facilities can triple the number of fixtures moving to LED’s they’re too bloody expensive. One third the number seems more like it.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 23, 2018)

Your electric bill will drop some, but so little it won't justify the cost of conversion, not even a small percentage of the cost.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 23, 2018)

Electricity savings really depends on the venue, it's hours of operation, and the billing rules of the electricity provider. My venue saved about $7000 per year or 30-40% on the electricity bill primarily because we were able to reduce peak demand below a critical threshold. For venues that are larger, or part of a bigger complex, or have a different operating model, the savings would be lost in the noise.


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 24, 2018)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Your electric bill will drop some, but so little it won't justify the cost of conversion, not even a small percentage of the cost.


Well, I suspect that's gonna depends on whether you had to make a chance *anyway* (see above at Kleigl...)


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## RickR (Apr 24, 2018)

JonCarter said:


> Now, do we have a good LED leko that'll deliver 100 fC @ a 150' throw???



The new Robert Juliat Oz followspot is boasting 90fc at 130' with a 7.7d beam. So such is thing is possible with todays tech but not quite here.


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## Ben Stiegler (Apr 25, 2018)

Your photos show all the instruments on the on-stage electrics focused as downlight. Great for reading sheet music, but usually awful for lighting actors, dancers, etc. is that your normal rep plot?


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## cbrandt (Apr 25, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> My venue saved about $7000 per year or 30-40% on the electricity bill primarily because we were able to reduce peak demand below a critical threshold.



This is the most viable argument I've run across. Unfortunately, it either doesn't apply to most venues, or they don't have enough information to make a good decision. It is a great question to ask facilities.


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## EWCguy (Apr 25, 2018)

I recently wrestled with the process of upgrading the lighting at Eastern Wyoming College. Essentially, I have no budget so have to take advantage of the flush years of state funding; years I will not see again in the near future. I was able to secure a state grant with some matching funds by the college, its foundation, and the local community theatre group who live on our stage. I devised six phases for replacement, *representing a minimum purchase to make an entire segment of lighting design usable* – smaller purchases would put the inventory into such disarray as to not be effective - each thought to be about $7k. There is no way I can afford $1k+ LED ERS at this time.

Replacement Phases

Primary stage areas (Source4 tung) - front light for front half of stage
Secondary stage areas (Source4 tung) - front light for back half of stage
Cyclorama (LED)
Specials and Wash (Source4, PARnels tung)
Wash and Flood (PARnels tung, LED back/top)
Moving
Based on research of LED Cyc lights at the time and the amount of grant/matching funds, I decided to move Cycs down and specials up. I was able to fund three phases with about $24k.

That leaves me with:

Cyclorama (LED) - considering the ETC ColorSource Cyc - getting demo unit next couple of weeks

Wash & FLood - needs additional research to integrate LEDs - getting some demo units next couple of weeks

Moving - needs additional research
Audio upgrade to digital board and distributed i/o - expecting only $3k in cost for 32 channels, likely an emergency replacement. Got any coffee to spill on my analog? 
...and no budget in the foreseeable future.

Systems in place:

192 circuits, Strand D20 (yes, need to replace some dimmers with switched for LED use)
ETC Element (emergency replacement, 2012)
Altman Satellite I spots (emergency replacements, they made the last one for me to make a matched pair)


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 25, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> Electricity savings really depends on the venue, it's hours of operation, and the billing rules of the electricity provider. My venue saved about $7000 per year or 30-40% on the electricity bill primarily because we were able to reduce peak demand below a critical threshold. For venues that are larger, or part of a bigger complex, or have a different operating model, the savings would be lost in the noise.


What changes in equipment or operation did you make to reduce the peak demand?


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## Control point (Apr 25, 2018)

derekleffew said:


> @STEVETERRY has told the story of an energy usage study by Consolidated Edison when a large NYC company changed from 1000W Lekos to 575W SourceFours in the 1990s. I'll leave it to him to provide the punchline.
> .


I think reading the Seattle paper is really helpful in terms of perspective of why to use LED’s- boiled down it’s not energy savings ( except on a cyc ) it’s for color .
You have a good base in the strand rack - because it has relay modules available for you to start distributing power for LED’s. 
Choose a few circuits at ends and in middle of your plug strips, replace the existing dimmer modules with relays - change out the plugs on the strips to Edison so it’s clear they are supplied from the relays. 
You have DMX already at the rack - but first upgrade your controller - it’s a waste of effort to buy led fixtures if you can’t manage them and the 200 isn’t really LED or mover friendly. 
When you select a console buy big ! Element 40/500 is a good way to go. 
Use one output port for existing dimmers racks and new relay circuits , throw a show baby to transmit DMX wirelessly on the second port, that’s the first step. 
Beyond that start buying a show baby per electric, and add LED’s as you go. 

I usually recommend start with the cyc LED’s - as conventional cyc fixtures are a maintainence black hole- 
Then establish a good down wash over the stage - at least one fixture for every 8 square feet of stage performance area. 
Then add FOH profiles and Torms and electric side LED’s as you can afford. 

My humble opinion 

Carmel


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## RC4Wireless (Apr 25, 2018)

All good, but I must recommend looking at the numerous alternatives to show baby for wireless DMX. systems that are more secure, provide longer distances, have smaller packages. There is a lot to consider. Several options are, in my opinion, better performers at the same or lesser expense.


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## derekleffew (Apr 25, 2018)

EWCguy said:


> Cyclorama (LED) - considering the ETC ColorSource Cyc - getting demo unit next couple of weeks


Consider also https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/chauvet-ovation-b2805fc-led-cyc-lights-review.42530 .


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 25, 2018)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> What changes in equipment or operation did you make to reduce the peak demand?



The primary change was retiring 60 1000W fixtures in favour of 60 100W LED fixtures, installing LED worklights in the auditorium that are used during rehearsals and other dark days, LED exterior lighting, and automating the HVAC fresh air dampers. That dropped us from peaks of about 65 kW to under 40 kW for most months, June and July being the exceptions.

My venue is a standalone facility about 10,000 sq ft with about 100 performance nights with other activities mostly in the evening for another 225 days of the year. The local utility charges corporate customers a higher rate for the first 50kW. The rate above 50kW is actually less but there is significant step in the delivery charge to the tune of $600 per month (see sketch) We paid the delivery charge but did not really benefit from the reduced rate. So there was a potential savings of $7,200 per year in delivery charges if we could keep the monthly peak below 50kW. The biggest power uses are the HVAC compressors when cooling, and the stage lights, with the stage light contributing the most during tech weeks and performances. Reducing the lighting load also reduces the HVAC load so there's a win-win.

So the contributing factors are climate, the billing structure of the utility company, and the significance of the stage lighting to the operating cost.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 25, 2018)

In the case of my old high school, our stage uses quite a bit of power, and is entirely comprised of halogen and incandescent bulbs, which doesn't look good for their "green initiative" as they break it down to each section of the building. Plus, I think they're getting tired of the constant requests for a couple hundred dollars in FELs, HPLs and EGGs..

But then they look at the immediate cost of replacing everything and slowly slink away...


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 25, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> The primary change was retiring 60 1000W fixtures in favour of 600 100W LED fixtures



Even assuming you meant 60 - not 600 - LED fixtures and assuming just 10% the wattage was the same amount of light, I'm skeptical it paid back. $7000/yr gets you somewhere around $75,000 - in the area of 5% interest and 15 years - hardly enough to buy 60 LED profiles equivalent to 1000 watt tungsten halogen profiles. And that's only assuming none of the other upgrades cost anything.

I am well aware that figures lie and liars figure, but payback can be calculated. You may be counting on energy prices going up a lot, which helps the case, but not enough. And even if you show that the stage lighting accounted for 10%, not just 2% like the Seattle Rep study, you really only had $700 a year to replace all those fixtures, and its obviously not close.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 25, 2018)

I mean... Straight Incandescent to LED would be about 10% of the Wattage. Let's say you're replacing 1KW Kliegl Scoops with LED floods. (God forbid you still have them)

Halogen bulbs are a bit more efficient, so it's not quite as stark a difference.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 25, 2018)

Yeah, I meant 60 (typo fixed) and yes it saves us about $7000 per year on our hydro per year, almost entirely attributable to not paying delivery charge premium and not the piddling few cents per kWh charge. I am well aware that demand charges alone would never provide any payback. The ROI is about a decade but we are absolutely achieving the ROI. We did this several years back before LED profiles were a thing. That said, our primary motivator was not energy savings, it was to get colour mixing and not have to double and triple hang conventionals.


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## EdSavoie (Apr 25, 2018)

There's also gel to consider


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 25, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> Yeah, I meant 60 (typo fixed) and yes it saves us about $7000 per year on our hydro per year, almost entirely attributable to not paying delivery charge premium and not the piddling few cents per kWh charge. I am well aware that demand charges alone would never provide any payback. The ROI is about a decade but we are absolutely achieving the ROI. We did this several years back before LED profiles were a thing. That said, our primary motivator was not energy savings, it was to get colour mixing and not have to double and triple hang conventionals.



If you lent $52,000 at 3% for 10 years, you would get back $7000/year. Or maybe it was interest free. I'm still surprised you could acquire 60 LED profiles and make the other upgrades to work light and mechanical systems for $52,000 or $70,000.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 25, 2018)

Again, not LED profiles, ETC Desire D40s purchased when the US-Canada exchange rate was better.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 25, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> We did this several years back before LED profiles were a thing.



Sorry. Missed that this meant you bought washes.


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## Chase P. (May 7, 2018)

I'm late to the party here, but I'd also bring up the funding issue for fixture replacement. If the Powers That Be are approving conversion in drips and drabs, it makes sense to me to replace things behind the scenes first, then move onstage. If you've done the hallways and dressing rooms, but have the stage and house still left, you may be able to leverage funding that drys up when the highly visible changes have been made. Not that most folks would visually notice a good conversion, especially in non-dimmed applications. They'll sure notice a sloppy color temp change, though.

This has been my strategy on a gig that I PM every summer. I started by converting the exterior lights on the tent, as well as the work lights backstage and in concessions and ticket sales. This year I'm moving on to the house lights, and possibly starting the conversion over the stage. It's worked out well, because the funding hasn't dried up yet, though it does trickle instead of flow in. I'm still hoping for a donor that wants to "name" the new lighting rig.


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## MohaveScott (Jun 7, 2018)

Ben Stiegler said:


> Your photos show all the instruments on the on-stage electrics focused as downlight. Great for reading sheet music, but usually awful for lighting actors, dancers, etc. is that your normal rep plot?


Sorry for the belated response. The lighting was temporarily in that configuration between quick activities. Normally they are aimed in more appropriate and interesting directions!


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## MohaveScott (Jun 7, 2018)

Chase P. said:


> I'm late to the party here, but I'd also bring up the funding issue for fixture replacement. If the Powers That Be are approving conversion in drips and drabs, it makes sense to me to replace things behind the scenes first, then move onstage. If you've done the hallways and dressing rooms, but have the stage and house still left, you may be able to leverage funding that drys up when the highly visible changes have been made. Not that most folks would visually notice a good conversion, especially in non-dimmed applications. They'll sure notice a sloppy color temp change, though.
> 
> This has been my strategy on a gig that I PM every summer. I started by converting the exterior lights on the tent, as well as the work lights backstage and in concessions and ticket sales. This year I'm moving on to the house lights, and possibly starting the conversion over the stage. It's worked out well, because the funding hasn't dried up yet, though it does trickle instead of flow in. I'm still hoping for a donor that wants to "name" the new lighting rig.



The school and some benefactors have upgraded all the house, hall, dressing rooms, etc. to LED. Only the stage lighting remains conventional. I really like the Kreios FLx 90w as a work light. Perhaps we can get 8-10 of those.


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## MohaveScott (Jun 7, 2018)

Control point said:


> ...
> You have a good base in the strand rack - because it has relay modules available for you to start distributing power for LED’s.
> Choose a few circuits at ends and in middle of your plug strips, replace the existing dimmer modules with relays - change out the plugs on the strips to Edison so it’s clear they are supplied from the relays.
> 
> ...



I really appreciate your point about using Edison plugs on channels that are converted to Relays. This makes tons of sense and would prevent someone from plugging in a LED non-dimming fixture into one of the dimming channels. Since it is a student driven environment we need to try and lower possibility of mistakes that damage expensive assets....


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## RickR (Jun 8, 2018)

I've used the Krieos a few times, both 60W & 90W versions. They are a bit glary (barn doors and snoots are available) and really bright for a good price. Color quality is very nice too, but limited choices.


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