# Hanging an audio snake



## Anonymous067 (Feb 7, 2010)

So...a thought hit me today. I'm trying to reach a 100 foot snake between the booth and the stage. currently the plan is to run it down, under the seats, up the side of the stage, and then put 25' cables on the end from there. 

However, would it be safe (maybe we cannot have the convo, if not sorry) to suspend the snake from the catwalk (As opposed to running it IN the catwalks...). Perhaps using some type of tie wire...rope...etc...

Any thoughts?


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## Sean (Feb 7, 2010)

Blah067 said:


> So...a thought hit me today. I'm trying to reach a 100 foot snake between the booth and the stage. currently the plan is to run it down, under the seats, up the side of the stage, and then put 25' cables on the end from there.
> 
> However, would it be safe (maybe we cannot have the convo, if not sorry) to suspend the snake from the catwalk (As opposed to running it IN the catwalks...). Perhaps using some type of tie wire...rope...etc...
> 
> Any thoughts?



I think you need to explain a lot more about the facility. Maybe you have some pictures you can post?

I suspect you probably have a similar distance to cover going 'up and over' as you would going 'down and over'....

--Sean


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## philhaney (Feb 7, 2010)

Blah067 said:


> However, would it be safe (maybe we cannot have the convo, if not sorry) to suspend the snake from the catwalk (As opposed to running it IN the catwalks...). Perhaps using some type of tie wire...rope...etc...



Well our TOS says, "The users of ControlBooth, in a effort to police themselves, have evolved the following: No discussion of "how-to" of rigging, pyrotechnics, human flight, stunt falls, weapons and electrical will be permitted. Our stock answer to these questions is always "Consult a qualified professional."

As long as you're not violating the TOS, have at it!

(you _*can *_discuss options and ideas *without getting into how to do it*)


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## Footer (Feb 7, 2010)

If you have the walkpath, zip ties would be your friend. If you can walk it, you can run it. Are you installing it permantly or temporary? There is nothing saying you can't run it in the walkspace of the catwalk if you run it cleanly and secure it.


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## Anonymous067 (Feb 7, 2010)

Temporary. Will take pics tomorrow if I remember to add it to my six page list of crap to do....(stupid talent show)...


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## Anonymous067 (Feb 7, 2010)

It would be an extra 10 feet to go all the way to the catwalks. If I just drop it below the ceiling, it would only go up 5 feet from the booth (then slant up...). I just don't know what I would end up doing when I got to the proscenium. Still would have to go over...and it would probably make it just as long anyhow. ugh. wasted thought.


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## avkid (Feb 7, 2010)

Please make sure you don't run it over anything sharp.


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## Anonymous067 (Feb 7, 2010)

avkid said:


> Please make sure you don't run it over anything sharp.



as always... :]


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## museav (Feb 7, 2010)

I believe that technically cabling can not be supported off ductwork, piping, condit, acoustical clouds or ceiling, etc., it would have to be tied to some structural element. The catwalk would likely be okay, but laying it on the ceiling or having it hanging off parts of other building systems should probably be avoided.


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## Chris15 (Feb 9, 2010)

avkid said:


> Please make sure you don't run it over anything sharp.



Or under anything heavy, like plate steel pit covers


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## CSCTech (Feb 9, 2010)

Wouldn't suggest running it through the catwalk unless it is well insulated. All the electrical feedback etc. (Well unless you are running through a part of the catwalk where there is no electrical circuits anyway.)
Heh, The genius who designed our place thought it would be good to run UN-shielded speaker cable to our speakers. So guess what happens when the houselights or FOH spots come up? The white noise is horrible. 

Anyways, If it is temporairy, I would say go out of the booth, accross the floor tot he side, down the side wall, and onto the stage.

We have it like-
Out of the control area, up the backwall, (Our backwall has like, wood panels then black mesh inbetween and a half foot space on the top before the cieling so we put some nails there to hold the snake back from falling. So it goes up inbetween one of the cutouts in the wood beams, accross the top of the backwall, (Just easier and nicer then running it across the doorway.) then down the side and it runs all the way down the side row of seats, no under then, but next to them inbetween the wall and end seat, then up onto the stage, accross the top of the stairs (Yes, taped tightly the full length and yellow stripes periodicly), around the wall opening then straight back to our connections in the back.

Something like that might work for you : )


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## Chris15 (Feb 9, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> The genius who designed our place thought it would be good to run UN-shielded speaker cable to our speakers. So guess what happens when the houselights or FOH spots come up? The white noise is horrible.



EVERYONE uses unshielded speaker cable in all bar the most exceptional circumstances. and to be honest, it's is highly unlikely yours is one of those.

Insulation has nothing to do with resistance to induced electrical noise, shielding will and the use of balanced lines will.

Brad, how many sparkies run their lighting cables directly on top of the ceiling and meet code whilst doing so...

Up and over conveniently avoids trip hazards associated with crossing walkways, egress paths, etc.


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## Anonymous067 (Feb 9, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> Or under anything heavy, like plate steel pit covers



And yet after I tell the stage crew, please don't run the pianos over the cables, I still find them inbetween two wheels...


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## CSCTech (Feb 9, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> EVERYONE uses unshielded speaker cable in all bar the most exceptional circumstances. and to be honest, it's is highly unlikely yours is one of those.
> 
> Insulation has nothing to do with resistance to induced electrical noise, shielding will and the use of balanced lines will.
> 
> ...



Sorry D:
I have never been up there, we do not have any catwalks, only an access one. But the person in charge of the auditorium just told me that the speaker cable was not shielded and the loud hum we get is from the FOH electric and houselights.
I can just imagen the mess of wires up there with the houselights having each row on a separate dimmer.


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## Firepudding (Feb 9, 2010)

i would say try to bracket it to the corner of the wall and ceiling and run it out then down and along the bottom of the stagehead


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## Chris15 (Feb 10, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> Sorry D:
> I have never been up there, we do not have any catwalks, only an access one. But the person in charge of the auditorium just told me that the speaker cable was not shielded and the loud hum we get is from the FOH electric and houselights.
> I can just imagen the mess of wires up there with the houselights having each row on a separate dimmer.



You're probably picking up the noise in your inputs - mic sockets etc or through the mains supply. To induce enough noise to be annoying into a speaker line requires a fair bit of coupling, such that the local electrical codes would be breached for improper separation of services and it would need to be that way for some metres... UNLESS of course you are right next to the mains for your city in which case mileage may vary


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## SHARYNF (Feb 10, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> Sorry D:
> I have never been up there, we do not have any catwalks, only an access one. But the person in charge of the auditorium just told me that the speaker cable was not shielded and the loud hum we get is from the FOH electric and houselights.
> I can just imagen the mess of wires up there with the houselights having each row on a separate dimmer.




This is a compete miss understanding of when if ever speaker cable is shielded:
here is some information from BlueJeans cables a very well respected cable supplier:

First, shielding isn't a factor; the signal level in speaker cable is so large, and the current flow so high, that entry of noise into the cable can't (barring some truly extraordinary level of electrical noise in the environment) cause alteration of the sound output. On those rare occasions when shielded speaker cable is used, the purpose of the shield is not to protect the speaker signal from outside noise, but to protect other circuits from noise induced by the speaker cable. 

The noise from the lights is being induced in the INPUT not the outputs.

Sharyn


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## museav (Feb 10, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> Brad, how many sparkies run their lighting cables directly on top of the ceiling and meet code whilst doing so...


Watching the company I worked for having to rewire an entire post production house that they had just finished when the City inspector would not issue a Certificate of Occupancy because the cables were not independently supported made me very aware of this. So did seeing our ceiling speakers being the only thing holding up the ceiling when the ceiling failed in a new auditorium space, especially since that immediately cleared us of any responsibility for the failure (apparently caused by others supporting things off the ceiling hangers which the failed).

The increasing amount of cabling run above ceilings for data, HVAC controls, security, etc. has made people more cognizant of the related issues and NEC now requires cabling to be supported from building structure and not from interiors or other building systems components.


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## Chris15 (Feb 10, 2010)

It's nice to hear someone's bothering with the rules...

I just know that in the roof above me, the TPS is sitting loose.

Note that I'm talking about a Gyprock ceiling, not a suspended ceiling tile style one. Not independently supporting cables in a grid ceiling is just sloppy sloppy workmanship and asking for trouble...


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