# Does your theatre do this?



## NHStech (Apr 19, 2010)

A local for-profit theater requires a $2.50 surcharge for every ticket sold for its improvement fund. An administrator suggested I do the same - making all groups charge an extra dollar or something when they charge admission, for upkeep of my venue. Is this a common practice?


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## chrispo86 (Apr 19, 2010)

We do this at the HS I work with. A couple of years ago they built in an extra $1 to all of the different shows tickets that would be set aside for equipment purchases, repairs, maintenance, etc.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 19, 2010)

We charge a flat rate rental fee and occasionally charge a per hour labour fee for staff. It seems to me that requiring a surcharge is double-dipping. However, if your rental rates are set lower than your operating costs (as may be the case in some school and community theatres) surcharges may be a way to bring the rate back in line with the actual cost.


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## Ric (Apr 19, 2010)

At our Theatre there is a charge for printing the tickets as well as the sales of them. If a hirer wishes to create their own tickets & sell them, saving on that cost, we provide a seating plan and suggestions on ways to sell by seating areas, and pitfalls. The time involved in selling seating intelligently is huge ! Planning for groups sitting together, ensuring that no individual seats are left in the middle of a row, disability areas etc. are things that no casual hirer can be expected to know or plan for, wheras venue staff are experienced in the difficulties.
So we have options; if people want us to sell their tickets there is a small charge, if they want to print their own tickets & allocate their own seats then they can do so to reduce this charge.


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## jwl868 (Apr 19, 2010)

As one who has rented venues (for dance recitals and dance school shows), I would think that having to add a surcharge to the ticket price is a bad idea. (I’m assuming that your venue is a school.) It would be one more thing I’d have keep track of and in any case, it’s a cost that you can fold into your basic rental rate (and any other “ala carte” fees that you charge). And, I agree, it sounds like “double-dipping”. You mean to say that the rental fee doesn’t contribute to the maintenance of the facility?

I suggest calling around to other schools and similar venues in your vicinity and see what the market really is.

Joe


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## cprted (Apr 19, 2010)

Our box office charges an administration fee of $1.75 per ticket.


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## chrispo86 (Apr 20, 2010)

I guess I should mention that though we tack on a $1 to all of the show prices, we're a high school that doesn't rent out our space. That's strictly for all of the school shows. So there are no rental/labor charges worked in anywhere.


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## sk8rsdad (Apr 20, 2010)

Based on the responses so far there appears to be 2 interpretations of the surcharge. Could the OP please clarify which of these 2 assumptions are correct?

a fee for box office services
a head tax to cover facility maintenance independent of how the ticket is sold


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## martyclynch (Apr 20, 2010)

We don't have fees or money set aside, but we do have a deposit. Our students get in for free, but they have to put down a $5 deposit that is forfeit if they don't show up. It's cut down on no-shows and helped us keep students' tickets free.


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## renegadeblack (Apr 21, 2010)

Our HS doesn't do this, however, now that I think about it, it would be quite nice to do. I know that when I go to local theatres there are all sorts of BS fees, like the freaking $15 theatre restoration fee. The feel for the convenience of picking it up at the box office, the fee for the convenience of printing your ticket online, the convenience of buying your ticket at the door... I think you see where I'm going here. At the HS level, it doesn't feel right, at least for your own shows, rentals, I think it would be okay.


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## gafftaper (Apr 22, 2010)

We charge a fee to cover box office costs. Never heard of doing it to cover building maintenance. But I don't see why you couldn't do it that way too. As long as the fee is fairly low the audience will never know it's there.


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## TimmyP1955 (Apr 24, 2010)

Consumer's hate add-ons and hidden fees. They might put up with it a few times, but eventually they'll say "**** 'em" and spend their money elsewhere.

Promoters aren't particularly fond of them either. Keep things as simple as possible. If you must have add-ons, they should be per show, not per ticket. This keeps it simple, removes the promoter's impetus to under-report ticket sales, and rewards sales success instead of punishing it.


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## sdauditorium (May 13, 2010)

TimmyP1955 said:


> Consumer's hate add-ons and hidden fees. They might put up with it a few times, but eventually they'll say "**** 'em" and spend their money elsewhere.
> 
> Promoters aren't particularly fond of them either. Keep things as simple as possible. If you must have add-ons, they should be per show, not per ticket. This keeps it simple, removes the promoter's impetus to under-report ticket sales, and rewards sales success instead of punishing it.



While I agree that the public hates add-ons (especially when you have convenience fees, facility fees, and so on) added to equate to nearly as much as the cost of the show itself, if you add on a facility maintenance fee (maybe $1/ticket) or something, they would understand and graciously accept that fee.

For example, we currently do not charge a fee other than what the credit card processing costs through our software. However, we are looking at adding a $1/ticket charge strictly designed as "Facility Improvement/Upgrade" to help fund the cost of future necessary upgrades (sound, lighting, etc). I think folks would understand a low fee such as this if explained properly.


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## museav (May 14, 2010)

I'm not clear on the situation. Is this a school with internal users not being charged for the facility use or are you also discussing outside groups renting the facility? And as already noted, are you looking at a fee that is facility or service related?

For internal users, I can see some issues with the fact that it is school property and supposed to be available for school use. Private venues are different, in that case the facility does belong to one specific group and it is not publicly owned, so they can charge whatever fees they want for the facility or services provided. But for schools, and particularly public schools, I don't see the facility actually belonging to any one group. While charging for the event or charging an internal group for services provided may be one thing, a group or department charging a facility or equipment related fee for a publicly owned facility and equipment seems different. And a group or department charging a facility/equipment related fee to another group or department within the institution gives me visions of this turning into the Athletic Department charging a per band member fee for the additional field maintenance resulting from the marching band and in turn the Music Department adding a surcharge "Band Fee" onto football ticket prices for the wear and tear on instruments and so on until nobody can afford any school events.

In a rental situation I would think a 'per person' facility or equipment related fee would be fine provided that the fees were identified up front and reflected in the rental costs (e.g. the higher the per ticket fee, the lower the base rental fee). The only problem I foresee in that case is that both the cost and charge for the venue then become variable.


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## sdauditorium (May 14, 2010)

museav said:


> For internal users, I can see some issues with the fact that it is school property and supposed to be available for school use. Private venues are different, in that case the facility does belong to one specific group and it is not publicly owned, so they can charge whatever fees they want for the facility or services provided. But for schools, and particularly public schools, I don't see the facility actually belonging to any one group. While charging for the event or charging an internal group for services provided may be one thing, a group or department charging a facility or equipment related fee for a publicly owned facility and equipment seems different. And a group or department charging a facility/equipment related fee to another group or department within the institution gives me visions of this turning into the Athletic Department charging a per band member fee for the additional field maintenance resulting from the marching band and in turn the Music Department adding a surcharge "Band Fee" onto football ticket prices for the wear and tear on instruments and so on until nobody can afford any school events.
> 
> In a rental situation I would think a 'per person' facility or equipment related fee would be fine provided that the fees were identified up front and reflected in the rental costs (e.g. the higher the per ticket fee, the lower the base rental fee). The only problem I foresee in that case is that both the cost and charge for the venue then become variable.



The fee that I was discussing for our venue would be applied to any event in which a paid admission/ticket was needed. This would apply to any school events and outside rentals or productions through the community auditorium. However, general school concerts in which there is no admission in the first place would not be obligated to pay this fee.

However, regardless of whether it is a school event (mainly a couple musicals that we do) or an outside rental, the demand on the lighting fixtures, sound equipment or the facility itself is the same. Either the school will have to fork over more money in the future, or we can be proactive and help built a fund to help cover future needs. At $1/ticket, it is not being incumbered upon the school or students, but the patrons who are purchasing a ticket to see the final product.


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## museav (May 15, 2010)

sdauditorium said:


> However, regardless of whether it is a school event (mainly a couple musicals that we do) or an outside rental, the demand on the lighting fixtures, sound equipment or the facility itself is the same. Either the school will have to fork over more money in the future, or we can be proactive and help built a fund to help cover future needs. At $1/ticket, it is not being incumbered upon the school or students, but the patrons who are purchasing a ticket to see the final product.


You mean the patrons that already pay, via taxes, for those very school facilities, staff, equipment, materials, etc.? And since it also entails similar wear on and use of the facilities and equipment, why wouldn't any such charge apply to all events? If the fee is tied to the ticket price for the event or applied on a discretionary basis it seems to no longer be a facility charge.

My main point was that many events may also place additional demands on instruments for the band, shop equipment, perhaps the art facilities, other areas of the building, etc. So once you open the door to 'add on' charges, will a ticket for a musical potentially have a theatre charge, an instrument charge, a shop charge, a facility charge and any other charges that any groups and departments affected by the event can tack on to try to gain funding? What is to stop every group in the school from trying to turn every event that places any demands of them into a fund raiser for them? And where is the line to school sponsored events becoming a 'for profit' or commercial ventures?

I understand the need for funding, but I also think that discretionary donations or separate fund raising effort make more sense than a mandatory, but not always applied, per ticket charge.


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## sdauditorium (May 15, 2010)

museav said:


> You mean the patrons that already pay, via taxes, for those very school facilities, staff, equipment, materials, etc.? And since it also entails similar wear on and use of the facilities and equipment, why wouldn't any such charge apply to all events? If the fee is tied to the ticket price for the event or applied on a discretionary basis it seems to no longer be a facility charge.
> 
> My main point was that many events may also place additional demands on instruments for the band, shop equipment, perhaps the art facilities, other areas of the building, etc. So once you open the door to 'add on' charges, will a ticket for a musical potentially have a theatre charge, an instrument charge, a shop charge, a facility charge and any other charges that any groups and departments affected by the event can tack on to try to gain funding? What is to stop every group in the school from trying to turn every event that places any demands of them into a fund raiser for them? And where is the line to school sponsored events becoming a 'for profit' or commercial ventures?
> 
> I understand the need for funding, but I also think that discretionary donations or separate fund raising effort make more sense than a mandatory, but not always applied, per ticket charge.


 
I definitely understand the thoughts and POV and see what you are saying. The thought behind only applying it to paid events is that those require more than support and demands than a simple concert, lecture, assembly, etc. It's fair to say a musical with a month of rehearsals and run of show is more demanding and requires more equipment usage than a quick choral/band concert. 

Either way, the district tax payers will ultimately have to fund necessary equipment purchases to keep the facility running in addition to what they've already paid. The "double-dip" theory assumes that everyone who purchases a ticket for one of the two school events this would apply to (high school music and 5th grade musical) are all district residents. This is not the case, as we get a large number of patrons who reside outside of the district.

Further, the fee would be priced into the ticket and not as a separate add-on. We've preliminarly talked about it with the musical directors for both shows, and they are open to the idea for additional discussion. By any reasonable standard, having "shop fees" and all of those other things is excessive and is a stretch from the single fee that is being proposed. There is no possible way in which I could ever see adding any other fee besides the one mentioned.


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## NHStech (May 16, 2010)

museav said:


> You mean the patrons that already pay, via taxes, for those very school facilities, staff, equipment, materials, etc.? And since it also entails similar wear on and use of the facilities and equipment, why wouldn't any such charge apply to all events? If the fee is tied to the ticket price for the event or applied on a discretionary basis it seems to no longer be a facility charge.
> 
> But the patrons of which you speak already pay on top of taxes for tickets to all football and basketball games, as well as state tournaments of any sort (at least in my state).
> My district is probably typical in that it has no budget for upkeep of its theater venue, so, if a millage doesn't pass, the only monies I get are through outside rentals, which are only about 5-6 in number a year. In addition, our contract is about 20 years old, so the cost for our venue is by far the best in the area.
> As I read these posts, I think I tend to agree about not having extra costs beyond rentals, but what about charging the $1 for in-house productions, such as choir concerts, band concerts, etc? These do not pay any rental fees, as they are school functions, and if they charge at all it is nominal. Tacking on one more dollar would still be cheaper than a basketball game, and would bring in enough money yearly to save for replacement items for lights/sound. Not enough for major upgrades, mind you (draperies, new seats, etc), but enough to keep mics and some lighting up to date.


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## museav (May 17, 2010)

That is sort of one of my points Where you already charge for the event aren't you really just trying to justify charging more by calling it a 'facility fee'? And if you don't charge for admission wouldn't you then in effect be charging for admission? So why not just be upfront and charge more for the ticket? I would balk at being forced to pay an additional 'fee' tacked onto the ticket price even though I might voluntarily donate more than that, a response to feeling I'm being being nickeled and dimed. And if I did pay the fee that would be all you got, I would not be as likely to donate anything else. So just make the tickets $6 instead of $5 or $11 instead of $10 whatever, don't make people feel that you are trying to suck every penny you can with extra 'fees' or make them wary that there might end up being other fees applied by the time everything is said and done.

One problem I foresee with a 'facility fee' for a public school is that the facility, the equipment, etc. is owned and maintained by the school district. So any fees related to the facilities or equipment use or maintenance may need to go to the school district and then be distributed by them. I'm not sure about the legalities and accounting (who manages the funds, decides how to spend the money, etc.) related to any other group adding a such a charge. And charging internal groups might have some of the same issues, primarily that the venue may not be yours to charge for. You may be able to charge for specific services or consumables that you provide directly associated with an event, but perhaps not a general facility or equipment related fee.


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## sdauditorium (May 17, 2010)

museav said:


> That is sort of one of my points Where you already charge for the event aren't you really just trying to justify charging more by calling it a 'facility fee'? And if you don't charge for admission wouldn't you then in effect be charging for admission? So why not just be upfront and charge more for the ticket? I would balk at being forced to pay an additional 'fee' tacked onto the ticket price even though I might voluntarily donate more than that, a response to feeling I'm being being nickeled and dimed. And if I did pay the fee that would be all you got, I would not be as likely to donate anything else. So just make the tickets $6 instead of $5 or $11 instead of $10 whatever, don't make people feel that you are trying to suck every penny you can with extra 'fees' or make them wary that there might end up being other fees applied by the time everything is said and done.
> 
> One problem I foresee with a 'facility fee' for a public school is that the facility, the equipment, etc. is owned and maintained by the school district. So any fees related to the facilities or equipment use or maintenance may need to go to the school district and then be distributed by them. I'm not sure about the legalities and accounting (who manages the funds, decides how to spend the money, etc.) related to any other group adding a such a charge. And charging internal groups might have some of the same issues, primarily that the venue may not be yours to charge for. You may be able to charge for specific services or consumables that you provide directly associated with an event, but perhaps not a general facility or equipment related fee.



If we ended up going ahead with something like this, it would be built into the price of the ticket. It would not appear as a separate add-on/a la carte type charge. According to the district powers that be, there is nothing in the rental rules for school groups that would preclude us from potentially doing this pending school board approval.

Like you said with it being a district owned/"funded" facility, we're open to discussion and not forcing this down anyone's throat. As long as the district can assure us that they will adequately help share their load of funding upgrades and future purchases, there isn't a need for that fee. They do understand we're trying to be proactive to any future needs.


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## JBrennan (May 17, 2010)

Our theatre charges a $1 facility fee per ticket. This money is used for maintenance on the building and equipment, emergency repairs, and scheduled cleanings such as the main drape, carpets etc every few years.


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## museav (May 18, 2010)

Just to be clear, I understand the funding dilemna faced by many arts programs especially in the current economic conditions and appreciate people being proactive and creative in addressing it. I am really trying to express that at a time when many people are already struggling to pay the taxes that support the schools and to still make ends meet, increased ticket prices or add-on charges for school events may not be well received. And probably even less well received if not clear up front.


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## sdauditorium (May 18, 2010)

museav said:


> Just to be clear, I understand the funding dilemna faced by many arts programs especially in the current economic conditions and appreciate people being proactive and creative in addressing it. I am really trying to express that at a time when many people are already struggling to pay the taxes that support the schools and to still make ends meet, increased ticket prices or add-on charges for school events may not be well received. And probably even less well received if not clear up front.



Well taken and makes a lot of sense. I agree that any fees or add-ons need to be thoroughly discussed and planned; but more importantly, they need to be clearly disclosed. To be fair, taxes are (obviously) required. Purchasing tickets to see a musical or any other entertainment event is optional. I think it's fair to say this is one topic people can agree to disagree on.


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## mstaylor (May 21, 2010)

Our area schools all rent their theatres. The problem is the money goes to the general fund not to the school. I once went in to see about giving them a copntract to maintain all of the theatres because they were in horrible shape. The guy in charge said there was no need because they went in every summer and relamped everything. The bad part is the regular renters have to maintain their own lamp stock to have enough instruments to do a show. They come in and lamp house instruments and take them back out after the rental. If part of the money stayed at the school they could fix their own stuff.


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