# Questioning Convention and Tradition: Curtain Call



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 19, 2011)

So my university is performing "A Midsummer Night's Dream" next week, and I had a random thought spurred on by other hypothetical situations (as picked from different threads on CB). But I was just wondering, since this show ends with the character of Puck/Robin giving an epilogue/apology/blessing to the audience, why would you do a curtain call. In my mind, it would make more sense artistically to do without a curtain call, so that the audience can leave with these words in their heads. 

So hypothetically speaking, is there any legally binding legislature in the Canadian Theatre Agreement, or whatever your AHJ on Equity is that states that there must be a curtain call? I can see why the actors would like the personal recognition (and tradition), but is it required.


----------



## Footer (Mar 19, 2011)

Totally depends on the contract. Could it be in there, yes, is it in every contact, no. Hell, dogwalkers for a leading lady could be in a contract. 

I have done a few shows that went without. However, every time it is done, its discussed with the cast first. The director usually makes their case as to why they want it done and if they full cast agrees, no curtain call. I have never seen a cast not agree. However, for the shows in question its usually one where half the cast is running around naked and someone is speaking out of a trashcan and another person is pushing themselves around in a wheelchair with a stick (who can name the playwright...). 

Now, for your show I would say yes, do the call. Shakespeare was originally performed in a very "staged" environment. The words were it... and so were the actors. Also, your in the world of academia... this might be the last time some of these people ever perform before an audience (even if they think different)... let them get their bows and applause. 

...And as far as "let the audience leave thinking of X".... I think if a curtain call destroys the audiences perspective on the show you have many more things wrong. They should be leaving thinking about the show no matter what. If they didn't, thats a larger problem then the curtain call. 

Finally, a curtain calll does not need to be some huge production number with music and flashing lights. You don't need music, everyone does not have to bow 300 times. The entire cast coming onstage together... lights up, everyone bows together... blackout... houselights does what it needs to do. It takes 10 seconds. Done. Then the audience members can properly thank the cast for the show and at the same time you can keep the integrity of the show together.


----------



## Tex (Mar 19, 2011)

Footer said:


> However, for the shows in question its usually one where half the cast is running around naked and someone is speaking out of a trashcan and another person is pushing themselves around in a wheelchair with a stick (who can name the playwright...).


oooh... oooh... me... me...

Beckett

What do I win?


----------



## ptero (Mar 19, 2011)

Footer said:


> However, for the shows in question its usually one where half the cast is running around naked and someone is speaking out of a trashcan and another person is pushing themselves around in a wheelchair with a stick (who can name the playwright...).



Wow! Sounds a LOT like the last 'Rocky Horror' I designed!


----------



## MPowers (Mar 19, 2011)

Kyle,

Well said!


----------



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 19, 2011)

Footer said:


> Totally depends on the contract. Could it be in there, yes, is it in every contact, no. Hell, dogwalkers for a leading lady could be in a contract.


 
Right, I forgot about the individual contracts. Silly me. That would probably be the biggest determinining factor.


----------



## Morydd (Mar 19, 2011)

I've worked shows where they either skipped the curtain call, or in one case did a completely silent, motionless tableau. In those cases it was usually the sort of show where when the performance was good, no one wanted to clap because they were crying. But I think, for the most part, audiences understand that the curtain call is not part of the show. It's something that happens back in the real world.


----------



## rochem (Mar 20, 2011)

Also, consider that your audience is probably accustomed to seeing curtain calls, so if you quickly brought up the lights and left the main rag in, they'd probably be more confused and more likely to lose the feeling they were left with than if you had done a curtain call like normal. Like Footer said, curtain calls also don't need to be lavish and grand. Many take place without any music, and you can even have the whole cast bow at once (instead of taking individual bows) to make it go faster. While I agree that the curtain call is "not part of the show," it should still be designed and created with the same attention that you give to the show as a whole.


----------



## chausman (Mar 20, 2011)

I think if you have good enough actors, a curtain call shouldn't cause a problem with what people remember. I know if i was in the cast, I would want recognition for my hard work. And, if it is a professional show, the actors (I'm assuming) are good enough to help you remember what happened. If it is a community show (and actors are not professionals), a lot of people are just coming to have fun, and whether they remember what happened isn't the first priority. And curtain calls are fun for everyone. Especially when someone has just giving this AMAZING solo or monologue that just leaves the audience stunned, the curtain call is the only time to give someone this big standing ovation they deserve.

That is just my opinion.


----------



## DuckJordan (Mar 20, 2011)

chausman said:


> I think if you have good enough actors, a curtain call shouldn't cause a problem with what people remember. I know if i was in the cast, I would want recognition for my hard work. And, if it is a professional show, the actors (I'm assuming) are good enough to help you remember what happened. If it is a community show (and actors are not professionals), a lot of people are just coming to have fun, and whether they remember what happened isn't the first priority. And curtain calls are fun for everyone. Especially when someone has just giving this AMAZING solo or monologue that just leaves the audience stunned, the curtain call is the only time to give someone this big standing ovation they deserve.
> 
> That is just my opinion.


 

I've seen several combinations done.

No curtain Call, Lead Curtain Call and Full cast curtain call. Full cast as lavish as possible and one where the whole cast just stood out on the edge of the stage, lights up, lights down, house up done.

All three worked. Not a single person leaving the audience was talking about the curtain call or the lack of one. yes its a convention that we do but no most audiences don't Expect one. The realize there could be one and realize that there might not be. Its all dependent upon the play.

The show that didn't have a curtain call that was most recent was a high school production of the crucible.


----------



## erichart (Mar 21, 2011)

We did Richard Foreman's "Idiot Savant" in 2009, which ended with no curtain call. Willem Dafoe collapses on stage, the "main drop" (actually a scenic element) comes in on top of him, and the characters usher the audience out as quickly as possible, all the while Willem's feet are sticking out of the curtain like the Wicked Witch of the East. Of course, Richard Foreman does practically everything in the least conventional manner possible, but this production was at the Public Theater and had Equity actors, so I wouldn't think a curtain call is something which is automatically mandated.


----------



## Ellyn (Mar 22, 2011)

I seem to remember that in the Liviu Ciulei production of Midsummer that I saw in the late 1980s, after Puck's final speech the stage was darkened and empty and then the mechanicals returned with bells on to perform their promised bergomask (i.e., their in-show curtain call) but were disappointed to find none of the Athenian audience were still there to see it.

But I don't remember whether there was an actual curtain call for us audience members in the theatre, or if so when it occurred in relation to that ending.


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 23, 2011)

To me this is part of a larger key point for all of us on the production side. If the audience leaves thinking about anything other than the play your cast/director/entire production team has not done their job right. The audience shouldn't leave talking about the curtain call, the set, the sound effects, the special effects, costumes... whatever. The audience should leave talking about the story, and later say, oh *and* the costumes were great. This is clearly a core problem with Spiderman. 

If your curtain call is such a big deal that it makes them forget the play you have a problem. As has been said, it can be startling to an audience for the to not be a curtain call so you need to be careful. Not having a curtain call call can cause the audience to leave the theater talking about *that *instead of the story.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 23, 2011)

Saw a play once about an autistic child. At the end of Act II, stage lights did the typical three count fade to black. Then the following xylophone was heard (just the notes, no lyrics):
Twinkle, twinkle, little star
How I wonder where you
Houselights fade up in two seconds.

No curtain call, no walk-out music, nothing. Audience left confused and disoriented, which was the intent of the director and design team. Very powerful, and disturbing, ending.


----------



## BrianWolfe (Mar 23, 2011)

If the director and producer say no curtain call then I would say that is it unless you have a ridiculous ego massaging contract. As for the recognition of the actor's hard work...there are a lot of other people in that theatre working just as hard if not harder who manage to get by without their own curtain call. Too much ego involved here IMHO.


----------



## sully151 (Mar 24, 2011)

As an actor, I believe there should be a curtain call. And it is NOT for the actor. This is a time for the cast, on behalf of the entire company, to thank the audience for spending a few hours and some cash to come see them do what they love. 

The theatre I teach and work at believes in the Ensemble, because of this leads share dressing rooms with minor roles and they do full cast curtain calls. Bow, thank your audience and move on.


----------



## BrianWolfe (Mar 24, 2011)

> This is a time for the cast, on behalf of the entire company, to thank the audience for spending a few hours and some cash to come see them do what they love



Well if that is true the group on the wrong side of the proscenium is applauding.


----------



## sully151 (Mar 24, 2011)

BrianWolfe said:


> Well if that is true the group on the wrong side of the proscenium is applauding.


 
Cast bow is saying Thank You to the audience. The audience chooses to Thank the cast back with applause. Accept, react, and move on, Yes And, bow, applaud pretty much the same thing.

If you ask me, the audience says thanks every time they laugh, are silent at the right moments, cry, giggle etc. 

For the most part, the Curtain Call is the only time the cast gets to acknowledge the house.


----------



## DuckJordan (Mar 24, 2011)

sully151 said:


> Cast bow is saying Thank You to the audience. The audience chooses to Thank the cast back with applause. Accept, react, and move on, Yes And, bow, applaud pretty much the same thing.
> 
> If you ask me, the audience says thanks every time they laugh, are silent at the right moments, cry, giggle etc.
> 
> For the most part, the Curtain Call is the only time the cast gets to acknowledge the house.


 

To me this sounds much like an ego rub. Performing is a talent, Taking a bow is not thanking the audience. (and before you try and tell me differently i have talk to several acting professors who have had at least 10 years prior non-educational experience) A bow is a way to give the audience one last look at a performer (not the character). This is to me just another "payment" to the actors. I'm not saying this because I'm a technician and I do believe that actors work just as much as technicians, Different kinds of work yes but work none the less. Curtain call is never required and is more of a congratulations on a performance.


----------



## sully151 (Mar 25, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> To me this sounds much like an ego rub. Performing is a talent, Taking a bow is not thanking the audience. (and before you try and tell me differently i have talk to several acting professors who have had at least 10 years prior non-educational experience) A bow is a way to give the audience one last look at a performer (not the character). This is to me just another "payment" to the actors. I'm not saying this because I'm a technician and I do believe that actors work just as much as technicians, Different kinds of work yes but work none the less. Curtain call is never required and is more of a congratulations on a performance.


 
As a teacher, with more than 10 years of non-educational experience I can believe what I choose. 

I bet you have seen a performer or two actually mouth "Thank You" during a curtain call. Is that purely thanking the audience for stroking the performers precious ego? or is it truly thanking the audience for their support and attention while they have all experienced a once in a lifetime event?

Do me a favor and ask your teachers what they think of this quote

"The curtain call is not an applause meter but a recognition of the audience. You are there to thank the audience for its attention"


----------



## NHStech (Mar 25, 2011)

blackisthenewblack said:


> So my university is performing "A Midsummer Night's Dream" next week, and I had a random thought spurred on by other hypothetical situations (as picked from different threads on CB). But I was just wondering, since this show ends with the character of Puck/Robin giving an epilogue/apology/blessing to the audience, why would you do a curtain call. In my mind, it would make more sense artistically to do without a curtain call, so that the audience can leave with these words in their heads.
> 
> So hypothetically speaking, is there any legally binding legislature in the Canadian Theatre Agreement, or whatever your AHJ on Equity is that states that there must be a curtain call? I can see why the actors would like the personal recognition (and tradition), but is it required.



An idea/compromise?
At some point during Puck's final blessing, why not have the rest of the cast come out quietly from both wings, so as Puck finishes, they are all out there, they all take very abbreviated bows or even a head nod, and then bring in your grand or raise house lights or whatever (maybe even have Puck start out in a spot, and then as cast comes out gradually raise the lights around him onstage so as show them).
This gives the cast a curtain call, but keeps it simple, and the emphasis would still be on Puck's soliloquy.
At least, that is how it appears in my head. Maybe try it to see what it looks like?
Just a thought...


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 25, 2011)

NHStech said:


> An idea/compromise?
> At some point during Puck's final blessing, ...




> So, good night unto you all.
> Give me your hands, if we be friends,
> And Robin shall restore amends.


I had a director interpret the phrase "give me your hands" as Puck asking the audience to applaud.  Not sure I agree, but there it is.


----------



## BrianWolfe (Mar 25, 2011)

“I'll privily away; I love the people, But do not like to stage me to their eyes; Though it do well, I do not relish well Their loud applause and aves vehement, Nor do I think the man of safe discretion That does not affect it.” 
~William Shakespeare
Measure for Measure (Vincentio, the Duke at I, i)


----------



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 25, 2011)

So I had no idea, this thread would be such an issue. I think my original question of whether Equity requires a curtain call was answered in the first couple of posts. I am by no means the director or of any artistic imput as the ASM so I was just wondering hypothetically if you were required to have a curtain call. But this disscussion on who the curtain call is for, is a rather interesting development that I had not seen coming. So keep the questioning coming...


----------



## CrisCole (Mar 28, 2011)

Footer said:


> However, for the shows in question its usually one where half the cast is running around naked and someone is speaking out of a trashcan and another person is pushing themselves around in a wheelchair with a stick (who can name the playwright...).


 

Tex said:


> oooh... oooh... me... me...
> 
> Beckett
> 
> What do I win?



Sounds more like a Larson show to me...


----------



## FlashBang (Apr 10, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Taking a bow is not thanking the audience. (and before you try and tell me differently i have talk to several acting professors who have had at least 10 years prior non-educational experience) A bow is a way to give the audience one last look at a performer (not the character). This is to me just another "payment" to the actors


 
First off, I'd say in about half the theatre productions I have seen the actors stay completely in character throughout curtain call - maintaining mannerisms, expression, etc. I rarely, if ever, have seen wigs or costume removed before curtain call so as to "show off" the actor and not the character on curtain call.

I work a lot with european cultural associations, and the vast majority of the time, the cast comes out for curtain call clapping along to a song / gesturing toward the audience in what seems very much like a "thank you for spending time with us tonight, your attendance here is what allowed us to get up on stage tonight and do what we love - so thank you, thank you, thank you"

That being said, I did a production last week that had a curtain-call soundtrack that ran 4:15 (I hinted to do the director after night 1 that this was a buzzkill, to be met by a deathstare) with each actor doing about 8 bows with planned applause time way over what I would expect to hear or what the actor deserved.


----------



## shiben (Apr 10, 2011)

CrisCole said:


> Sounds more like a Larson show to me...


 
Or anything produced in Eastern Europe. You forgot pouring blood on themselves, giant masks, and the random servant on a ladder forgetting all his lines and simply working on the wall the entire show.


----------



## shiben (Apr 10, 2011)

FlashBang said:


> First off, I'd say in about half the theatre productions I have seen the actors stay completely in character throughout curtain call - maintaining mannerisms, expression, etc. I rarely, if ever, have seen wigs or costume removed before curtain call so as to "show off" the actor and not the character on curtain call.
> 
> I work a lot with european cultural associations, and the vast majority of the time, the cast comes out for curtain call clapping along to a song / gesturing toward the audience in what seems very much like a "thank you for spending time with us tonight, your attendance here is what allowed us to get up on stage tonight and do what we love - so thank you, thank you, thank you"
> 
> That being said, I did a production last week that had a curtain-call soundtrack that ran 4:15 (I hinted to do the director after night 1 that this was a buzzkill, to be met by a deathstare) with each actor doing about 8 bows with planned applause time way over what I would expect to hear or what the actor deserved.


 
Could be worse. Went to my show last night, and the SM called the house lights up after the actors took 2 collective bows, no breaking it up, and then they left. Audience kept clapping until the hands came out and cleaned all the blood off the floor.


----------

