# Shure QLX-D



## Brenden Friedel (Dec 30, 2017)

So my school recently purchased 8 QLX-D receivers. I know that these guys can be hooked up to a network and used with wireless workbench and shures channels app. But the question is... How do i hook up 8 ports to one router and still have room for two mixers?


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## Chris15 (Dec 30, 2017)

For that, you'll be in need of a network switch.
For this usage, nothing fancy is needed, the cheap and cheerful option at your local retailer, probably in the 8 port variety, will work just fine...


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## JD (Dec 30, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> So my school recently purchased 8 QLX-D receivers. I know that these guys can be hooked up to a network and used with wireless workbench and shures channels app. But the question is... How do i hook up 8 ports to one router and still have room for two mixers?


A "Router" really only has two connections, one for the LAN and the other for the WAN or higher LAN. Most all routers have a built in "network switch" which is why they have four or more output jacks. In most cases, you simply add additional switches to add additional devices. The limit depends on how strong the router is. In theory, you could have up to 256 devices tied into a basic router. In practice, that number is much lower if you expect any reasonable performance out of the device. There's a reason routers vary in cost from about $100 to $2500, but few of us will notice or need the capacity that very expensive routers provide. Network switches can be had in the $20 to $120 region, depending on brand and number of outputs. Most are 4, 8, 16 or more outputs. Simply plug your switch into one of your router ports. Newer switches even auto-sense the input so you don't even need a "twist" or "flipped" cable, just off-the-shelf pre-made Cat5/6


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## FMEng (Dec 30, 2017)

It seems like overkill to network 8 receivers in a fixed location. Set them and forget them.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 30, 2017)

FMEng said:


> It seems like overkill to network 8 receivers in a fixed location. Set them and forget them.


The only reason I would like to is because we live in a heavy frequency area with tons of frequency’s crawling all over. I have an airport and a news station nearby so networking those 8 receivers allows me to use software to find those perfect frequencies. And normal receivers can’t talk to eachother but these can if they are networked into the same WiFi. Not to mention the iPad control using Shures app


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## themuzicman (Dec 30, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> The only reason I would like to is because we live in a heavy frequency area with tons of frequency’s crawling all over. I have an airport and a news station nearby so networking those 8 receivers allows me to use software to find those perfect frequencies. And normal receivers can’t talk to eachother but these can if they are networked into the same WiFi. Not to mention the iPad control using Shures app



Airports aren't going to be a huge source of unlicensed white space devices, neither will the news station -- their uplink will be an issue, but you can find what TV stations to avoid pretty easily and tune around them using the frequency sheets supplied with your devices, just don't tune onto a TV station's channel.

The TV station's reporters are more of a threat to the stability of your systems if they do a lot of remote shoots near your venue. Anyhow, go buy a cheap unmanaged network switch like a Netgear GS108 or something. I'd also suggest reading up on how computer networks work -- it'll only help you more down the line if you plan on pursuing audio as a career, shows only get bigger and with them comes larger computer networks.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 30, 2017)

themuzicman said:


> Airports aren't going to be a huge source of unlicensed white space devices, neither will the news station -- their uplink will be an issue, but you can find what TV stations to avoid pretty easily and tune around them using the frequency sheets supplied with your devices, just don't tune onto a TV station's channel.
> 
> The TV station's reporters are more of a threat to the stability of your systems if they do a lot of remote shoots near your venue. Anyhow, go buy a cheap unmanaged network switch like a Netgear GS108 or something. I'd also suggest reading up on how computer networks work -- it'll only help you more down the line if you plan on pursuing audio as a career, shows only get bigger and with them comes larger computer networks.


Thanks! The only reason I’m saying that tv stations are near is because I have like 12 unites in the J3 range for Shures SLX and it’s like 537-599 or something like that and I have major trouble even doing scans from frequencies running into eachother and we really aren’t sure what is causing that interference. We have our churches in ear monitors in the same range but that rack is usually shut off when we use it. Any other possible things that could be interfering. And are systems are remote antennas that are directional about 130ft away from the stage and is powered through Shures antenna distributors


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## JD (Dec 30, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> Thanks! The only reason I’m saying that tv stations are near is because I have like 12 unites in the J3 range for Shures SLX and it’s like 537-599 or something like that and I have major trouble even doing scans from frequencies running into eachother and we really aren’t sure what is causing that interference. We have our churches in ear monitors in the same range but that rack is usually shut off when we use it. Any other possible things that could be interfering. And are systems are remote antennas that are directional about 130ft away from the stage and is powered through Shures antenna distributors


Maybe look a bit closer to home. Do you use LED house lighting? I find trouble from about 530 to 550Mhz with a lot of the direct-replacement LED lamps. Not sure why, but turn the lights all off and it's gone. Most of the time I can still run fine, but have to keep the squelch set pretty high. Note, most LEDs are quiet as a church mouse, but some brands really offend!


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 30, 2017)

JD said:


> Maybe look a bit closer to home. Do you use LED house lighting? I find trouble from about 530 to 550Mhz with a lot of the direct-replacement LED lamps. Not sure why, but turn the lights all off and it's gone. Most of the time I can still run fine, but have to keep the squelch set pretty high. Note, most LEDs are quiet as a church mouse, but some brands really offend!


I'm not sure if our house lights are LED, I'm almost certain they are but i think a couple are still incandescent. I don't follow though how the LED's would cause wireless interference. Like that seems very bizarre


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 31, 2017)

LED's have switching power supplies in them to convert 120VAC to about 32VDC to run the LED strings. Some of these -- generally the cheapies -- have really *noisy* power supplies.


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## themuzicman (Dec 31, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> Thanks! The only reason I’m saying that tv stations are near is because I have like 12 unites in the J3 range for Shures SLX and it’s like 537-599 or something like that and I have major trouble even doing scans from frequencies running into eachother and we really aren’t sure what is causing that interference. We have our churches in ear monitors in the same range but that rack is usually shut off when we use it. Any other possible things that could be interfering. And are systems are remote antennas that are directional about 130ft away from the stage and is powered through Shures antenna distributors



When you coordinate you need to coordinate for ALL sources of interference, IEM's included, for maximum fault tolerance. 12 units of SLX is a lot of SLX, they aren't the most robust wireless and have a limited switching bandwidth.

You're most likely interfering with yourself, if I had to guess.

Another thing to think about -- your antennas are moderately far from your source signal, remember that the inverse square law is in effect for Antennas, just like it is for sound propagation in speakers. You want those antennas as close to the source as possible. Another thing to think about is either un-powering or setting the antennas to the lowest gain they can go, powered antennas are good in a very limited number of situations, but you are boosting all the noise along with the signal. If you are in a noisy environment, and the antennas are far away you are going to boost noise that you wouldn't otherwise want.

Why don't you post an entire list of all your RF and their frequency ranges? With every post you are painting a bigger picture, but not the entire one.


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## FMEng (Dec 31, 2017)

The J3 band is TV 31-34. Using the zip code of LNHS, 32832, there are TV stations on 23, 27, 46, 26, 30, 28, 31, etc. If you could give us an accurate location, we might be able to do better. 

When you say you have TV stations near you, we need to determine if the studios are near you, or the actual broadcast transmitters are near you. Studios often have shorter microwave towers, which would not interfere. If it is the actual transmitter tower, it could be a big problem. Transmitter towers are usually quite tall in Florida.

TV Fool is one tool that can help you determine what is nearby. Look at the "real channel" and distance in the results.
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

If a *UHF* TV broadcast transmitter, or several, is really close by, your mic receivers could be suffering from front-end overload or desensitization. Under that condition, the receiver cannot reject the interference by tuning. That would explain why the SLX units cannot scan. The fix for front end overload is better receivers or external filtering. That sort of situation is often what separates an expensive receiver from a cheaper one. QLX and ULX is probably more tolerant, but there is no way to predict, especially without knowing the exact severity of the situation. External, bandpass filtering is a sure fix, but its an expensive step to take unless we're sure what the problem is here.

Active (amplified) antennas and/or distribution would be a very bad idea under strong RF conditions. I don't know if the Shure distros you have are amplified. They are if they are lossless. An RF amplifier can easily overload and spew garbage across otherwise clean channels. In that situation, I would move the antennas and receivers close to the stage, and use passive splitters to feed the receivers. You could use the stock, whip antennas to do some tests without the active splitter.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

FMEng said:


> The J3 band is TV 31-34. Using the zip code of LNHS, 32832, there are TV stations on 23, 27, 46, 26, 30, 28, 31, etc. If you could give us an accurate location, we might be able to do better.
> 
> When you say you have TV stations near you, we need to determine if the studios are near you, or the actual broadcast transmitters are near you. Studios often have shorter microwave towers, which would not interfere. If it is the actual transmitter tower, it could be a big problem. Transmitter towers are usually quite tall in Florida.
> 
> ...


I’ll prepare an location and a equipment list with all the frequencies in a couple minutes. But as much as we would love to move our antennas closer to the stage. We really have no where to put them. Of course we could put them on the proscenium or on the catwalk but doing that would result in the house not being able to get picked up. And we have a ton of rentals that use the house and use the microphone in the house. Now I’ve noticed on the antenna it has a light that says RF overload. Could that be another cause of it?


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## JD (Dec 31, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> Now I’ve noticed on the antenna it has a light that says RF overload. Could that be another cause of it?


If your RF overload light is on, yes, that could be a big part of the problem.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

I attached a drawing of our theatre for reference. The best address to use would be 12500 Narcoossee Road, Orlando Florida 32832. Our system right now consists of 12 Shure SLX in the J3 (572-596 MHz), 2 ULX in the M1 (662-698 MHz) band (Getting rid of in about 2 weeks) 6 Shure SLX in the L4(638-662 MHz) band (Getting rid of in about 2 weeks) and in about 2 weeks we will have 8 brand new Shure QLX-D in the H50 band. The distribution system is 4 Shure UA844 UHF distribution systems and 1 Shure UA844+SWB/L that goes to the antennas located above the control booth about 16' in the Air in the light booth. The paddles/fins are Shure U8A74. Most of our lights that we use on stage are ETC source 4's and some ETC lights with barn doors. I Beleive that the house lights are LED's but not shitty ones. Our Radios are in the 800 MHz range, we have a ton of internet signals going through on the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. The wireless DMX for our movers that aren't LED's are 190MHz. Then we have our churches Sennheiser in-ear monitors in the I don't know the frequency range or model but I do know that they are around the late 500 range and 5 of those and 10 Shure QLX-d in the H50 range but their system is always shut off and only used to turn on the system through Crestron and Dante networking. The only other wireless systems that could be in the theatre are cell phones. Keep in mind we have a Telex system but is hardwired and have power tools in our shop. There isn't much electrical interference the mics could get caught in.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

JD said:


> If your RF overload light is on, yes, that could be a big part of the problem.


How does one fix that


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## RC4Wireless (Dec 31, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> The wireless DMX for our movers that aren't LED's are 190MHz.



I’m puzzled by this part of your description. What wireless DMX technology operates at 190MHz? And do you have other wireless DMX for other parts of your system (e.g. for movers that _are_ LEDs)?


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

theatrewireless said:


> I’m puzzled by this part of your description. What wireless DMX technology operates at 190MHz? And do you have other wireless DMX for other parts of your system (e.g. for movers that _are_ LEDs)?


They are Showbabys (Little orange boxes) That are just wireless DMX Boxes. They operate at 5 different frequencies and the ones we have it set to are at 190MHz. They make it so we don't have to run a long DMX cable into our movers. We have 4 movers, i dont know what they are.


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## RC4Wireless (Dec 31, 2017)

You are completely mistaken in this case. ShowBabys operate in the 2.4GHz band using FHSS (frequency hopping spread spectrum). The system ID options (5 for Showbaby5, 6 for Showbaby 6) are hopping patterns, not specific frequencies. Nothing about it is ever anywhere near 190MHz. Same band as WiFi and Bluetooth.


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## JD (Dec 31, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> How does one fix that


First you have to figure out why. (See FMeng 's post #12 above) If your overload lights are on even when the transmitters are all off then it's time for some detective work. That RF is coming from somewhere.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

theatrewireless said:


> You are completely mistaken in this case. ShowBabys operate in the 2.4GHz band using FHSS (frequency hopping spread spectrum). The system ID options (5 for Showbaby5, 6 for Showbaby 6) are hopping patterns, not specific frequencies. Nothing about it is ever anywhere near 190MHz. Same band as WiFi and Bluetooth.


Ahh ok i thought the numbers meant a different frequency


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

I

JD said:


> First you have to figure out why. (See FMeng 's post #12 above) If your overload lights are on even when the transmitters are all off then it's time for some detective work. That RF is coming from somewhere.


It only happens when the bodypacks are being used.


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## themuzicman (Dec 31, 2017)

Brenden Friedel said:


> How does one fix that



Turn the gain on the antennas down. Pop open the panel on the Antenna, there are DIP switches inside. Run them at 0 or -6dB. 


Brenden Friedel said:


> They are Showbabys (Little orange boxes) That are just wireless DMX Boxes. They operate at 5 different frequencies and the ones we have it set to are at 190MHz. They make it so we don't have to run a long DMX cable into our movers. We have 4 movers



The ShowBabys are 2.4gHz and frequency hop like WiFi, not 190mHz. Their user manual doesn't seem to indicate that there is a user-specified frequency. 

-----
You've got quite the list of gear there -- and after looking at it, while I can't be 100% sure, I can be relatively confident that you're just stepping on your own toes if you're having RF issues. The Shure SLX systems really need to be used on their own and in tiny numbers, unless you plan on getting a frequency coordination software involved. The same goes for the QLX-D. When I ran numbers, I could only get 12x SLX's in the room, and at that it wasn't using any sort of logical Group/Channel numbering, I had to jump all over the place to fit them in there. 

If you were to do a scan with your new transmitters, not only would they only see the things in their own range and nothing else, but you would need every active transmitter powered on and in-range so they would know how to coordinate around local interference. 

Keep in mind, the data below is FULLY UNSUABLE the moment you turn any IEM's on as they weren't taken into consideration


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

JD said:


> First you have to figure out why. (See FMeng 's post #12 above) If your overload lights are on even when the transmitters are all off then it's time for some detective work. That RF is coming from somewhere.


It happens whenever we have microphones on and in use of at least 5 plus


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

themuzicman said:


> Turn the gain on the antennas down. Pop open the panel on the Antenna, there are DIP switches inside. Run them at 0 or -6dB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't worry. We don't use the IEM's only the church does and they don't use our stuff. Can I ask what program you used to program these frequencies? Also below are the frequinces being used at this very moment
J3 (572-596 MHz) - Shure SLX series - 12 Units

Group 3, Channel 3

Group 3, Channel 4

Group 2, Channel 4

Group 1, Channel 4

Group 6, Channel 4

Group 2, Channel 6

Group 4, Channel 6 

Group 4, Channel 7

Group 4, Channel 10

Group 2, Channel 11

Group 6, Channel 11

Group 4, Channel 12

M1 (662-698 MHz) - Shure ULS series - 4 units plus two spare frequencies

Group 3, Channel 6

Group 1, Channel 7

Group 6, Channel 7 (spare)

Group 4, Channel 12 (spare)



L4 (638-662 MHz) - Shure SLX series - 6 units

Group 1, Channel 1

Group 5, Channel 2

Group 5, Channel 3

Group 1, Channel 3

Group 6, Channel 6

Group 6, Channel 7


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## themuzicman (Dec 31, 2017)

That coordination seems valid to me after running the #'s. Next step is to knock down gain in the antenna and then try to get it closer to the stage.


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## Brenden Friedel (Dec 31, 2017)

themuzicman said:


> That coordination seems valid to me after running the #'s. Next step is to knock down gain in the antenna and then try to get it closer to the stage.


I can try the gain. Can't move them closer, unfortunately. They are permanently installed and the coax is runned perfectly for its run and have no where else to move them.


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## FMEng (Dec 31, 2017)

It sure sounds like the antennas are saying ouch! from your own RF. If lowering the gain doesn't help, switch to passive antennas.


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 1, 2018)

themuzicman said:


> That coordination seems valid to me after running the #'s. Next step is to knock down gain in the antenna and then try to get it closer to the stage.


What program did you use to get those frequencies?


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## BobShirk (Jan 3, 2018)

Brenden Friedel said:


> So my school recently purchased 8 QLX-D receivers. I know that these guys can be hooked up to a network and used with wireless workbench and shures channels app. But the question is... How do i hook up 8 ports to one router and still have room for two mixers?


You can link up to 8 channels of ULX-D. Therefore you would need only one port on your router.


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## Laurence Nefzger (Jan 3, 2018)

Brenden Friedel said:


> What program did you use to get those frequencies?



Download and get familiar with Shure Wireless Workbench. It will take a little work to get up to speed with it but it will help solve your frequency co ordination issues. It is useful even if you have other brands of wireless in your inventory.


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## MNicolai (Jan 3, 2018)

BobShirk said:


> You can link up to 8 channels of ULX-D. Therefore you would need only one port on your router.



ULX-D, yes, but QLX-D only has one NIC port on it so each receiver needs to connect back to a network switch.

As an aside, if you're using ULX-D with Dante, you shouldn't daisy-chain RX's because each switch hop requires additional latency. A few hops isn't usually a big deal, but if you start adding a bunch of hops in your wireless rack and then hop somewhere else and somewhere else before you hit your console, you've put 10+ switch hops in the signal chain and now your console needs to be put into 5ms mode. That adds 5ms to every single Dante input the console sees whether a source is two hops away or twelve.


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 3, 2018)

BobShirk said:


> You can link up to 8 channels of ULX-D. Therefore you would need only one port on your router.


How do you link them all? Update nevermind


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 3, 2018)

Laurence Nefzger said:


> Download and get familiar with Shure Wireless Workbench. It will take a little work to get up to speed with it but it will help solve your frequency co ordination issues. It is useful even if you have other brands of wireless in your inventory.


Ohh I was told you couldn’t Input nonnetwored microphibes In WWB


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## clopedia89 (Jan 3, 2018)

It sounds to me like your antennas are being amplified too much. Try lowering the gain on any antenna amps. Also, does the overload light come on for one specific transmitter, or for any transmitter? If it is a specific transmitter, you could try lowering the transmit power on that one unit, but I'd start with the antennas first.


Brenden Friedel said:


> Ohh I was told you couldn’t Input nonnetwored microphibes In WWB



You can, but you have to enter them by hand, and after coordination you have to set the appropriate frequencies on the receivers yourself. WWB will even calculate frequencies for an entire system of non-Shure gear, but only networked Shure gear can be automated.


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 3, 2018)

clopedia89 said:


> It sounds to me like your antennas are being amplified too much. Try lowering the gain on any antenna amps. Also, does the overload light come on for one specific transmitter, or for any transmitter? If it is a specific transmitter, you could try lowering the transmit power on that one unit, but I'd start with the antennas first.
> 
> 
> 
> You can, but you have to enter them by hand, and after coordination you have to set the appropriate frequencies on the receivers yourself. WWB will even calculate frequencies for an entire system of non-Shure gear, but only networked Shure gear can be automated.


Ahhh ok. I don’t get to the school until Monday so I’ll try then to lower the gain on them


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 9, 2018)

themuzicman said:


> Turn the gain on the antennas down. Pop open the panel on the Antenna, there are DIP switches inside. Run them at 0 or -6dB.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I ran your frequencies in wireless workbench and they are all incompatible just for the SLX in the J3


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## themuzicman (Jan 10, 2018)

Brenden Friedel said:


> So I ran your frequencies in wireless workbench and they are all incompatible just for the SLX in the J3



Are you saying that Wireless Workbench thinks everything is bad except for the J3, or that the J3 is the only thing bad and everything else is good. 

Regardless, I'm more inclined to believe something from IAS over anything Wireless Workbench tells me - but that's just my experience.


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## Silicon_Knight (Jan 10, 2018)

FMEng said:


> It seems like overkill to network 8 receivers in a fixed location. Set them and forget them.



A network connection can be convenient to monitor the receivers for troubleshooting (RF dropouts, battery levels, audio dropouts, etc.), especially if the receivers are not in the Tech Booth.


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 10, 2018)

themuzicman said:


> Are you saying that Wireless Workbench thinks everything is bad except for the J3, or that the J3 is the only thing bad and everything else is good.
> 
> Regardless, I'm more inclined to believe something from IAS over anything Wireless Workbench tells me - but that's just my experience.


I went over your list and it says that you used the H50 band instead of the G50 for the QLX. I think that could've been the problem


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## BobHealey (Jan 18, 2018)

Wow. I punched your zip into Wireless workbench, and put in all your < 600 MHz gear. You've got a lot of close (10-20 mi) TV transmitters. Hopefully there's some spectrum left for you in UHF after the repack. Using the "Robust" setting in WWB (which works really well for me up north), I couldn't make the rig you detailed work. It only got 8 SLX and 8 QLX H50 to play nice. You might want to look up where those > 600 MHz TV stations are landing, and depending on where they are landing and where there is more spectrum left, you might want to consider exiting UHF completely for VHF or 900 MHz (Both valid options with Shure).


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 18, 2018)

BobHealey said:


> Wow. I punched your zip into Wireless workbench, and put in all your < 600 MHz gear. You've got a lot of close (10-20 mi) TV transmitters. Hopefully there's some spectrum left for you in UHF after the repack. Using the "Robust" setting in WWB (which works really well for me up north), I couldn't make the rig you detailed work. It only got 8 SLX and 8 QLX H50 to play nice. You might want to look up where those > 600 MHz TV stations are landing, and depending on where they are landing and where there is more spectrum left, you might want to consider exiting UHF completely for VHF or 900 MHz (Both valid options with Shure).


I know there’s a ton of tv stations. I plugged in my wireless systems to workbench and I got 11 slx and 20 QLX g50 to work. I still couldn’t get that 12th transmitter to work for the slx but I was able to get a good number and I’ll see if the robust feature works and if all fails I have some backup frequencies from someone on here


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## BobHealey (Jan 18, 2018)

Brenden Friedel said:


> I know there’s a ton of tv stations. I plugged in my wireless systems to workbench and I got 11 slx and 20 QLX g50 to work. I still couldn’t get that 12th transmitter to work for the slx but I was able to get a good number and I’ll see if the robust feature works and if all fails I have some backup frequencies from someone on here



Did you go to the spectrum tab and put in your zip before running the calculations so it knew where the TV stations were?


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## FMEng (Jan 18, 2018)

Keep in mind that we're in the transition period where some TV stations are in the database on two, different channels because they have to move from one to another. By July 2020, the spectrum will have a few more empty channels than it does now. ( In many places, it'll be done earlier.) A mic that doesn't fit now might fit later, provided it runs below 600 MHz.


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## Brenden Friedel (Jan 19, 2018)

BobHealey said:


> Did you go to the spectrum tab and put in your zip before running the calculations so it knew where the TV stations were?


I did and turned the radius to 20 Mi


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