# Done with DeWalt?



## ship (Jul 15, 2017)

Long long story back to 1985' in use and buying the cordless. I prefer a pistol grip cordless powertool as per classically trained in use. 14.4V DeWalt has been my standard for - since they came out, because when it came time for me to be the buyer, they held a charge long enough and many more voltages were more popular for theft. 14.4v platiform had sufficient power and life to use them. DeWalt no longer supports most of the tools I have, and indeed when not doing something on the drill press, I want three to four drills to work with in pre-mounted bits. 
Totally over DeWalt as a brand in having bought the best 20V Lithium Ion hammer drill version I could get. Hate it’s chuck, this much less it is not pistol grip. Beyond that, it’s blade lock is of the gears holding motor verses bit tightened into clutch. Way too much movement in motor/gears slipping/stripping so as to get a in theory tight drill bit. Never felt the gears of a motor slipping between them before this drill. Chuck of a non-ratcheting design that will burn your hands before you get the bit tight enough if using your hands to tension a bit. I have rejected this drill in giving it to one of my assistants. TBA when gear teeth wear out or given the bad chuck are a problem also for him more modern than I in wanting to go 20V Lithium Ion. 
I hated the DeWalt, but my DeWalt 14.4v inventory is getting old - this especially for drills I constantly work with. The next upgrade is necessary, glad I fought such "modern" 18v and other "upgrades" this long in not having to deal with theft or heavier but not better tools.
What brand / model to look into given I want hammer drill and impact drivers of the same battery once I switch? Money for the next tools is not an issue given I find one that will serve me for the next 20 years. Brand given I dislike the DeWalt also now open.

Believe 20v Lithium Ion to be the next current standard that will hold for the next couple of years. Theft isn't a problem for now given personal vs. shop 14.4v tools especially after personal department staff tools in 14.4v are put into shop tool inventory.

I want a good Pistol Grip tool, but recognize that age is probably gone. My guys are all T-handle drill. What's best for me will determine what the get. We do hammer drill but also the impact drill, so both platforms are necessary.

Help here in choosing a product?


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## techieman33 (Jul 16, 2017)

If the 14.4 stuff had enough power for you then you might consider the 12v Bosch and Milwaukee 12v lines. They're nice and compact with enough power to take care of most jobs. Then you could have one of the bigger 18v-20v drills for the heavy duty stuff. I like Makita's line but the batteries are a deal breaker for me. They only use one of the cells to power the internal electronics and to monitor the battery charge level. So if your not using them all the time you run the risk of that single cell discharging below the threshold Makita set for it, and when it does that it trips a switch that permanently disables the battery pack.


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## EdSavoie (Jul 16, 2017)

Your local Home Depot, if it's anything like the one I work at, likely has numerous cordless drills out on display that you can try out. You should consider stopping in and trying one, or asking one of the hardware & tool associates what they'd use. Alternatively you can ask them if you can try one that's not out for testing. After all, if you don't like it, you always have the 90 Day return policy to return it and buy something else.

Obligatory disclosure: I simply work there, I am not paid to say any of this, my views do not represent those of The Home Depot, yadda yadda yadda...


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## np18358 (Jul 16, 2017)

Try out Festool. They are very expensive, but I worked at a scene shop that used them, and they were amazing.


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## ship (Jul 16, 2017)

Home Depot’ Employee... I used to work a Builder’s Square for many years - a predecessor in home owner sales staff advice. I even advanced to the service desk and mastered special orders and re-rigging horizontal blinds while there. With what I knew and to the best of my knowledge and reading and education, I at times had to bluff my way thru actual advice. At other times, I really did know what I was advising, but it was questionable if the advice given was over the head of who I was advising in not being able or ready to undersand the advice suffiently. But it was a really great “job”and I got to research, learn and order stuff like find tin ceilings and custom order doors or windows amongst other stuff while going to school to learn more. Even designed locks for sliding doors. This is a great place to work for in learning the basics of materials. Was a really great learning experience for me.

On the other hand, I use these cordless powertools for a living, and use them every day for the most part. The sales person from Home Depot does not use this/each tool for hours each day and every day. We are talking use of the cordless tool which is bought to be used over a 20 year period until ready to go to the next generation of the powertool that I’m now looking toward. If a good sales person, he/she is well read into the specifications of what the home center offers and has a few minutes of personal use of it, but no similar background or experience in using them. If a really good sales person, they as I as a lamp buyer, have a chart not factory/store provided but personally compiled which can compare one drill to another amongst similar specifications and tests to them of all brands on the market - including the reports on Consumer Reports and woodworker magazine articles. 

I buy lamps for a living and can in detail from a chart tell you about any one lamp, and others, in theory others buy and use drills for a living, and have recently already compared all for choosing a next generation drill - no matter what the brand given the detais of all brands of drill and no budget or base of brand to start with.

From that personally compared chart, in even if not testing all brands of drill, they than can at least come up with an assumption of what drill would be best. They can recommend a tool for the home owner needing a charged tool sufficient, that for a jobber that uses the tool frequently, and for the end user - but with foot note as to needs. I used to do one such chart in figuring out what drill to buy for work.

I can do this in comparing drills’ but 20 years since I looked into power tools - thanks for the mention of the Festool... excited to look into it, because I use a cordless drill basically every day, and for hours on end and frequently. Literally used to toss some in the freezer to cool down - not as often these days because I have lots to switch to in stock. This is not a going to “Home Depot” sales person solution type of thing as I use the power tool every day for my living... and the sales person has what amount of experience with what is in stock and what they don’t sell in advice?
Sorry, and been there in working for a home center, but I would do research over recommendation from any sales staff. Yes I normally am the one hearing than correcting the home center sales staff in advice to clients.

Looking to upgrade my 14.4v cordless drills. Was in-impressed with the best DeWalt 20v Lithin Ion T-Handle for many reasons. Festool other user comments?


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## RonHebbard (Jul 16, 2017)

np18358 said:


> Try out Festool. They are very expensive, but I worked at a scene shop that used them, and they were amazing.


 @ship Back in the mid sixties, during my IBEW apprenticeship and in a time prior to battery powered hand tools, I had the luxury of using a Festool pneumatic sabre saw and fell in love with it. All the motion was directly up and down. Minimal vibration and the world's best sawdust blower keeping the blade and layout lines clear since spent air exhausted directly around and in front of the blade while you were cutting. I was using a fine tooth metal cutting blade to cut a custom bracket from a scrap of 1/4" flat aluminum stock and I've never forgotten the feel and pleasure of using the small, light, impeccably balanced EXPENSIVE little Festool.
I've never held any of their battery powered tools for fear I'd swoon and need to purchase before exiting the building.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Jul 16, 2017)

Festool makes nice stuff. But their stuff is usually 3x the price of Dewalt, Milwaukee, etc. They're kind of like the Apple of power tools, their stuff is nice and it works well, but your paying a whole lot extra for bragging rights. They also have a very proprietary system and all of the accessories get even more expensive. It's one of those brands that your a lot more likely to see in a hobbyists workshop than in a real working shop. If you really want to be shopping at the high end then you want to be looking at Hilti.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 16, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> Festool makes nice stuff. But their stuff is usually 3x the price of Dewalt, Milwaukee, etc. They're kind of like the Apple of power tools, their stuff is nice and it works well, but your paying a whole lot extra for bragging rights. They also have a very proprietary system and all of the accessories get even more expensive. It's one of those brands that your a lot more likely to see in a hobbyists workshop than in a real working shop. If you really want to be shopping at the high end then you want to be looking at Hilti.


 @techieman33 My lasers were Hilti's with zero regrets. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 16, 2017)

I don't make a living with my tools.

That said, I've been quite happy with the Ryobi One+ line. 

I see that Ridgid has come out with a set of interchangeable battery stuff too, which I'd probably have gone with had it been available first.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jul 16, 2017)

Perhaps a Metabo or Hilti cordless drill would suit your needs?


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## Dover (Jul 16, 2017)

Both Metabo and Hilti make a marvelous drill but they are usually in the 600 to 750 dollar range. They are certainly built better than a DeWalt or Milwaukee but it is hard to claim that they are built 4 times better. If I needed to take a drill to the space station or Alaskan bush I would pick a Hilti. However if I have ready access to a store, I can replace a DeWalt 3 times and still be ahead cost wise,
If you want to buy once cry once then get a Hilti, it won't disappoint. But if you are OK with replacing it a few times, a Makita or Milwaukee may provide a better overall value.


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## techieman33 (Jul 17, 2017)

Dover said:


> Both Metabo and Hilti make a marvelous drill but they are usually in the 600 to 750 dollar range. They are certainly built better than a DeWalt or Milwaukee but it is hard to claim that they are built 4 times better. If I needed to take a drill to the space station or Alaskan bush I would pick a Hilti. However if I have ready access to a store, I can replace a DeWalt 3 times and still be ahead cost wise,
> If you want to buy once cry once then get a Hilti, it won't disappoint. But if you are OK with replacing it a few times, a Makita or Milwaukee may provide a better overall value.



I completely agree, but if he's interested in spending Festool kind of money he might as well get something that's worth it.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 17, 2017)

Dover said:


> Both Metabo and Hilti make a marvelous drill but they are usually in the 600 to 750 dollar range. They are certainly built better than a DeWalt or Milwaukee but it is hard to claim that they are built 4 times better. If I needed to take a drill to the space station or Alaskan bush I would pick a Hilti. However if I have ready access to a store, I can replace a DeWalt 3 times and still be ahead cost wise,
> If you want to buy once cry once then get a Hilti, it won't disappoint. But if you are OK with replacing it a few times, a Makita or Milwaukee may provide a better overall value.


 @Dover As a Hilti buyer / owner / user I have to agree with you as I own far more Makita's than Hilti's and have neither disappointments nor regrets. There's a phrase escaping my mind at the moment, basically the right tool for the application is the right choice.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Jul 17, 2017)

You seem to like all the technical details so maybe this video and others on AVE's channel will help you out. He tears down a lot of tools and talks about the good and bad of all the components in them. It can be a little hard for some to understand all the Canadian slang, but you pick it up pretty quickly. This is the Hiliti video, he's also taken apart Dewalts, Makitas, Milwaukees, etc.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 17, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> You seem to like all the technical details so maybe this video and others on AVE's channel will help you out. He tears down a lot of tools and talks about the good and bad of all the components in them. It can be a little hard for some to understand all the Canadian slang, but you pick it up pretty quickly. This is the Hiliti video, he's also taken apart Dewalts, Makitas, Milwaukees, etc.


 @techieman33 Now you've done it! You've got me salivating. How am I going to get to sleep now?!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Jul 17, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @techieman33 Now you've done it! You've got me salivating. How am I going to get to sleep now?!
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



Your retired, you can be awake/sleep whenever you want.


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## bobgaggle (Jul 17, 2017)

EdSavoie said:


> Your local Home Depot, if it's anything like the one I work at, likely has numerous cordless drills out on display that you can try out. You should consider stopping in and trying one, or asking one of the hardware & tool associates what they'd use.



You must work at the best home depot ever. Every time I go in to ones near me, the drills are all missing batteries/broken. And the staff are all up at the customer service desk having a good time. 

We recently hired two guys who used to run their own contracting business, mostly decks and porches. They both swear by rigid, for whatever that's worth


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## RonHebbard (Jul 17, 2017)

bobgaggle said:


> You must work at the best home depot ever. Every time I go in to ones near me, the drills are all missing batteries/broken. And the staff are all up at the customer service desk having a good time.
> 
> We recently hired two guys who used to run their own contracting business, mostly decks and porches. They both swear by rigid, for whatever that's worth


I swore by Rigid in the days when I was cutting and threading 4" rigid steel Vs. aluminum conduit at 110 pounds per length and I still recall the annual Rigid wall calendars in our job shacks and trailers. I don't believe I've ever held or used any of their cordless tools but when they started showing up in Home Depot I recall thinking they were a step down from the Rigid tools of my trade. The tools Rigid offered for cutting, threading and reaming 4" steel conduit were definitely a quality level up from any of their items on display in Home Depot. [In my not so humble opinion.]
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Jul 17, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> I swore by Rigid in the days when I was cutting and threading 4" rigid steel Vs. aluminum conduit at 110 pounds per length and I still recall the annual Rigid wall calendars in our job shacks and trailers. I don't believe I've ever held or used any of their cordless tools but when they started showing up in Home Depot I recall thinking they were a step down from the Rigid tools of my trade. The tools Rigid offered for cutting, threading and reaming 4" steel conduit were definitely a quality level up from any of their items on display in Home Depot. [In my not so humble opinion.]
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



They basically are separate companies. Emerson owns the Rigid brand and make the trade tools that your thinking of. The power tools and maybe some of the consumer grade hand tools are developed and sold by TTI (a Chinese company) under a licensing agreement with Rigid. TTI also owns Milwaukee and Ryobi. While I'm sure there is some overlap at the top and bottom end of each "brands" lineup Ryobi is the consumer grade line, Rigid is the prosumer grade stuff in the middle, and Milwaukee is the pro grade. And it's pretty much the same thing at Stanley Black and Decker with the Black and Decker stuff being at the low end, Craftsman and Porter Cable sitting in the middle, and Dewalt at the top. There really aren't that many tool companies left these days, a large majority of the tool companies from the past have been bought out by the big conglomerates and are just labels on the packaging.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 17, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> They basically are separate companies. Emerson owns the Rigid brand and make the trade tools that your thinking of. The power tools and maybe some of the consumer grade hand tools are developed and sold by TTI (a Chinese company) under a licensing agreement with Rigid. TTI also owns Milwaukee and Ryobi. While I'm sure there is some overlap at the top and bottom end of each "brands" lineup Ryobi is the consumer grade line, Rigid is the prosumer grade stuff in the middle, and Milwaukee is the pro grade. And it's pretty much the same thing at Stanley Black and Decker with the Black and Decker stuff being at the low end, Craftsman and Porter Cable sitting in the middle, and Dewalt at the top. There really aren't that many tool companies left these days, a large majority of the tool companies from the past have been bought out by the big conglomerates and are just labels on the packaging.


@techieman33 You've just told me many things / relationships I never knew or suspected.
My Greenlee punches always served me well, Conduit series. round "radio series", square, D, double D and hydraulic drivers. 
In my trade days, Greenlee 4" benders and their hydraulic cutters that made short work of cutting lead jacketed 500 MCM 13.8 K cables were always solid, reliable, tools along with their 'tri-wheel' assemblies for pulling 13K8 and 27K6 3 conductor 500 and 750 MCM TEK jacketed cables around 90 degree bends in underground cable tunnels always felt like the real deals. 
In my automation shop days, Emerson AC servo's were our drives of choice from their baby drives up to their 6300 frame sizes. My Hilti and Milwaukee tools never let me down and anytime I met anything labelled Ryobi it always felt like garbage. I'd zero knowledge of the relationships you've passed along. Thank you.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## EdSavoie (Jul 17, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> You seem to like all the technical details so maybe this video and others on AVE's channel will help you out. He tears down a lot of tools and talks about the good and bad of all the components in them. It can be a little hard for some to understand all the Canadian slang, but you pick it up pretty quickly. This is the Hiliti video, he's also taken apart Dewalts, Makitas, Milwaukees, etc.




$670 Canukistan Dollars and you get a *brushed* motor? Seriously? Those contacts are going to be the first things to fail. With the copper / carbon mix in there it'll hopefully last a rather long time, but the brushes on that are an inevitable death sentence. No wonder you're supposed to get these with fleet service contracts...


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 18, 2017)

FWIW, I have a 1958 Craftsman corded electric drill with *brushed* motor that is still going strong on it's original brushes. The first thing to fail was the power cord.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jul 18, 2017)

Dover said:


> Both Metabo and Hilti make a marvelous drill but they are usually in the 600 to 750 dollar range. They are certainly built better than a DeWalt or Milwaukee but it is hard to claim that they are built 4 times better. If I needed to take a drill to the space station or Alaskan bush I would pick a Hilti. However if I have ready access to a store, I can replace a DeWalt 3 times and still be ahead cost wise,
> If you want to buy once cry once then get a Hilti, it won't disappoint. But if you are OK with replacing it a few times, a Makita or Milwaukee may provide a better overall value.



If I know @ship like I think I know him, then he's going to be willing to shell out the bigger bucks for a premium tool if the current crop of DeWalt and Milwaukee aren't meeting his standards.

Myself, I'm pretty deep into the M12 & M18 FUEL line, but I wouldn't hesitate to use DeWalt or Makita.


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## garyvp (Jul 18, 2017)

We like the 12v 3/8" Dewalts - they are small and light with a good grip, they can handle 2.5" screws, and you can buy them new still for well under $100 - very cost effective. Our oldest is 5 years, one has died, one is 3 years, and one is new. We also have a 1/2" corded big boy for heavy duty stuff. 

I have to say that we do a lot of set construction with pneumatic guns - much faster and easier to strike.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 18, 2017)

garyvp said:


> I have to say we do a lot of set construction with pneumatic guns - much faster and easier to strike.


 @garyvp Pneumatic screw guns or pneumatic brad nailers / round top staplers? 
Do you glue your joints or rely solely on your pneumatically driven fasteners likely driving them so they're being loaded / stressed in shear? 
Including rehearsals and performances, are your sets in use for weeks, months or years?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## garyvp (Jul 18, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @garyvp Pneumatic screw guns or pneumatic brad nailers / round top staplers?
> Do you glue your joints or rely solely on your pneumatically driven fasteners likely driving them so they're being loaded / stressed in shear?
> Including rehearsals and performances, are your sets in use for weeks, months or years?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



We use compressor powered 15 awg (2.5") angle nailer (for 1x3 framing), 18 awg brad nailer (for moulding), and 1/4" crown staples (for hanging luan). We do 9 shows a year and a set is up for about a month, so glue isn't really needed. 2" stock and plywood sheets are always screwed. Only a few are allowed to use the guns, and I maintain them as well.


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## ship (Jul 19, 2017)

Wow! and thanks for the above replies. I will have to do a lot of research but hopefully I'll find my "apple" as it were in me despising latest upgrades in a PC world.

Granted Royobi and won't happen - nor will Kia, but there is a few brands I have used in the past for other powertools that I have not considered.

-Pistol grip... probably won't happen
-Blade lock and ratcheting chuck
-20v Lithium Ion or better which is about the same weight in tool as a 14.4v.
-Chuck that won't burn one's hands when tightening.
-Platform that supports drill/hammer drill, and impact driver - perhaps other tools. (Recently bought into the impac drivers and love them.)

After all that though is the economics of battery any maintinence. Beyond a maintinence account with DeWalt (etc. who they fix,) I also do Fastenal - but they frequently take months if not loose the tools sent in. Nice that they do the right in lost or too long repair they do it for free, but you have to remember to remind them before any such lost tool gets fixed or replaced.

I for the most part have to buy and repair tools thru normal accounts. The repair of a tool will also become a consideration.

But thanks all in the above discussion - keep it coming in helping me decide my next drill.


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## johnmcsoft (Jul 20, 2017)

Check out Fine Homebuilding magazine, they do terrific tool reviews. They're quite detailed and look at both features and performance. An architect friend turned me on to it when we first bought our house, and I've been a subscriber ever since. Their web site is http://www.finehomebuilding.com. Look for the "Tool Test" entries.


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## tweetersaway (Jul 20, 2017)

We use the Makita 20v cordless drills/impact drivers in our shop. They are great tools that keep kicking with daily heavy use. After about 5 years, the batteries have mostly been replaced because the charge level is probably about 60% of original. A couple arbors have started slipping a little under heavy load, no doubt because of the many heavy loads, but by and large are still going strong. I personally own the Milwaukee M18 drill/impact driver, and have had them about the same amount of time, with not so heavy regular use. Both sets are tough, and will continue to last I am sure. 

Milwaukee seems to have the best offerings of multiple tools on the same battery platform(I also own an M18 Sawzall which is great), as they have some nice battery worklights, transfer pumps, etc. Most of the big dogs have your basic complement of drill/hammer drill/drivers.

When I'm looking to see what new tools are actually worth buying, I just drive around to the new construction around to see what the professional construction folks are using. You see a lot of Milwaukee, Ridgid, and occasional Makita and DeWalt in this sector.


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## Mwchris (Jul 20, 2017)

I have had great luck with the Ridgid line of cordless tools. What I like best is the lifetime warranty on the tool and batteries that are purchased with tool(s). This is of a tremendous value to me as all batteries will eventually go bad, and Ridgid will replace them no question asked, and typically with a newer model. As far as durability of the tools, I have yet to have to replace a tool, only a few batteries. Warranty work is handled via phone and mail-order. The last one I did I called a number, read off a few numbers and had my replacement battery in two days. 

I look for deals at Home Depot online as they run some great specials on kits with batteries, tools and chargers for decent prices. Unfortunately you can only purchase from Home Depot, but you can buy online if there isn't a store near by. I pick up a few kits here and there and have plenty of batteries and chargers.


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## josh88 (Jul 20, 2017)

I know at least in ohio and new england there is a HUGE love for the akita drills and drivers as being light, fast charging but with enough power for what we do. A lot of people I trust swear by them. That being said I've been using the same dealt impact and drill for the better part of a decade now and have never had any issues with them, where as I've seen ryobi and ridgid stuff fail around me (limited failures, but failures nonetheless). Outside of drills and drivers our shop has a bunch of hitachi and dealt chop saws and though I prefer the hitachi's they have had more issues. The dewalts seem slightly lower quality but more dependable to keep working at that level.


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## ship (Jul 21, 2017)

Went to Berland's House of tools today, looked at the Festools in their own alarmed room and came out with the catalogue. 18v for minimum voltage for my needs and hammer drill for me had a "D" handle shape with motor in front of trigger. I could get used to this shape. The $400.00 might have been about or chaper than what I paid for the DeWalt DCD997D - so I was not too scared off from that price. (Have to check the PO system in what I actually paid - was very expensive either less or more but about the price if I remember right.) BHC-18 is the "D" handle model but while it would probably make a good SDS type Hilti hammer drill, it's drill speed is only a maximum of 1,100RPM.

Wish I spent more time there in checking out all brands of drill, and spending time with all on display I could see at a tool store offering all brands. Only bought a few small things in a visit to see a tool store I have not been to in like 12 years and buy a magnetic LED flashlight amongst a few other small things. What's new offered in tools was the main purpose of the visit. But I had to get home, a small child date at Chuckie Cheese. Will go back I think in seeing and play testing tools. Having a place to see and feel tools - all brands of them is much better than seeing some brands in any one store, visiting many stores, but still not seeing all choices.

Festool drill/Hammer Drill PDC 18/4 is very interesting in RPM settings - four gears but the last gear 3,800 RPM's is a lot fast for most all applications. It's a T-Handle though in back to scratch in one of my wants. I saw DeWalt is still offering pistol grips for at least drywall screw shooters. Will go back and play test other brands, but so far it seems I'm stuck with the 20v system others where I work have bought into as the next generation of 14.4v. Already using all sorts of 20v DeWalt, perhaps I'll just have to buy some DeWalt gloves while using their tools. But not done yet in research into my next generation drill.


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## NeenahTD (Jul 21, 2017)

I *HIGHLY* recommend Milwaukee Fuel tools with the M18 Red Lithium batteries. I run a High School theater and we bought an entire set a little over a year ago. I could write a book about what I love about these tools but to keep it short:

- They are durable and easy to use. My students are tool rookies and they have no problem using these tools and the tools have no issues being abused by the kids.

- They have every tool imaginable. We have drills, a hammer drill, small impact drivers, a big impact driver, circular saw, jig saw, angle grinder, porti-ban saw, sawzall, portable LED lights and they all use the same batteries. Milwaukee has a bunch of other tools that are compatible as well.

- The batteries are amazing. I can build a stock platform using a small impact to drive all the screws and when I'm done and put my battery on the charger, it doesn't need to charge at all. The batteries have a built in charge meter so you always know how much charge is left and although I haven't timed it, it seems like the batteries charge super fast.

If you want to look at them in person, Home Depot (in Wisconsin at least) carries the basic Fuel series that we have and also a higher end series (not sure the difference). I am not associated with Milwaukee tools or Home Depot at all. I've used Makita, DeWalt, and Black & Decker(yuck!) tools and the Milwaukee tools come out far ahead in my experience.

Also, my co-worker literally grew up building high end houses for his dad's company and swears by the Milwaukee brand.


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## Blackfaer (Jul 21, 2017)

Another vote for Milwaukee. I use Craftsman - they were the first to have a huge range of tools on the same battery packs, so I've got literally more than 12 tools including my hedge trimmer and weed whacker on the same batteries as my drills and saws. Milwaukee I've used in a couple of scene shops and a few other stagehands I've worked with own them; it's a step up to more industrial quality than the craftsman without sacrificing the wide variety of options. I think price-wise, if I were starting new, I'd go Milwaukee because it's a good balance on cost vs value; as others have said Hilti or Festool is great if you're going to the space station, but for everyday use they're not enough better in quality to warrant the price.
YMMV.


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## ship (Jul 22, 2017)

Thanks both on the Milwaukee comments (and all for advice), My variouse corded Sawzall and various hammer drills are a great testament to quality. I will also be looking into, Hilti, Panisonic, Porter Cable, DeWalt, Skill, Makita, Bosch and Fein further so far on punch list for what they offer. Interesting the comment on high end Milwaukee to further check on. Festool for me is crossed off the list at least. Yes probably a good tool, but if I have to go T-Handle, it will either be the DeWalt brand and as said I'll just deal with it with gloves given it's for the most part the current shop battery pack standard, or one of the others if pistol grip and or falling in love with a new tool. Were the Festool D-Handle not mostly a hammer drill... I think I could have gotten used to it.


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## Doug Menke (Jul 26, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> You seem to like all the technical details so maybe this video and others on AVE's channel will help you out. He tears down a lot of tools and talks about the good and bad of all the components in them. It can be a little hard for some to understand all the Canadian slang, but you pick it up pretty quickly. This is the Hiliti video, he's also taken apart Dewalts, Makitas, Milwaukees, etc.




I was just about to suggest this guy. He's crude, but honest. Standards are high, but he has years experience as a field tech of some kind in the Great White North. If he says a tool is good, it's a fair bet it's going to hold up in your shop. He's also hilarious, but not for everyone, so your mileage may vary. For what it's worth, the shop I worked in during my MFA days had Makita pretty much exclusively, and they have held up very well.


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## ship (Jul 27, 2017)

Thanks I will. But also thought of something as I'm prepping a supplies for install parts/tool box today. If I don't like the chuck - change it. Granted it won't change the lack of motor locking mechanism, but it would provide me with a clutch better designed which ratchets and is more comfortable on the hand while I'm fighting the motor gears slipping during this.

T-Handle I suppose I'm going to be stuck with given the 20v battery system in use - though I might still go alternate brand. Next step for me is also finding another shoulder holster for a T-Handle. When on job site, my Oxidental (sp) Leather pistol grip holster is a constant, been using it for like 23 years now along with my versions of custom tool belt and pouches.


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## sloop (Aug 30, 2017)

Just picked up the DeWalt hammer drill/impact driver combo. Built a new control booth, 2x8 joists, 2 layers 3/4" ply. Put the entire thing (8'x14') with one charge on the impact driver. GREAT tool. The hammer drill.. keep it around for holes. The impact driver is the best tool to use as a screw gun.


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## TheaterEd (Aug 30, 2017)

Four years ago I bought two Dewalt 18v drills, and two Dewalt 18v Impact drivers for my student technicians. They are sturdy and get the job done, but one impact driver died at the end of its 3rd year. So last year when I went to replace it, I saw that the 20v impact drivers were only $99 each on Amazon. Bought two of those and now the kids fight over who gets the 20v. Then answer is usually me and whomever on the crew is most useful.

As for my personal tools. I bought myself a Milwaukee 18v drill and absolutely love it.


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## ship (Sep 1, 2017)

I bought a non-brushless 20v DeWalt Hammer drill, and other than lack of pistol grip, all of my complaints are reversed. Even used both drills this week while on a project - as with the 14.4v pistol grip - I use my tools dependant on speed and power for what bit I'm using. One tool per bit.

At home, my elder 14.4v pistol grip once I fixed the forward/reverse switch DeWalt wouldn't, works great and seemingly at a higher RPM than the other later and last version of pistol grip I have at both work and home one of. Than for slower speed and more power, I still have the first generation of T-Handle 14.4v. I often require three to four cordless tools when not just using a drill press, and I use all a lot both at home and work.

Anyway, the 20v non-brushless DeWalt tool recently bought was overall a great replacement for what I want - other than pistol grip which seemingly has gone out of style. In recent use, I used both 20V and the 14.4v Pistol grip for thre different bits in my needs. Yep, the brushless drill had a lack of blade lock and one could feel the gears of the motor moving and stripping as I ratcheted a bit into place. I also didn't like how it shocked to a start in a not normal drilling of the material. My current 20v DeWalt with brushes seemingly has a blade lock and the motor was held tight as I tensioned a bit. It also started like a normal drill when I pulled the trigger.

With the 20v drills, a little more care is needed to actually lock and center the bits, as with the power to only old school tighten a bit so far with the motor, than finish tightening it by hand. Than loosen it and verify that again. But for the most part you can use such tools most or all the day dependant on battery.


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## ship (Sep 1, 2017)

18v died, I would have it repaired in that DeWalt and many tool companies I think have a "max repair" price in fixing it anyway. This up until unlike Strong (followspots) it becomes obsolete for them. They offer you a discounted upgrade at that point. Did that with a grinder but was appairently absent for the day when that upgrade was asked about. Strong recently felt man/hour pain for a ballast I sent in - everything was wrong with it and they didn't meet their price for service. Nice but I have some bad magnetic ballasts not working in storage they should probably re-configure pricing on. Fair enough even if my 14.4 trigger switch fix was easy enough. Be aware that the 18v NiCad battery system is also on its way out the door for DeWalt. No info given but a most likely thing.


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## derekleffew (Sep 12, 2017)




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## techieman33 (Sep 12, 2017)

derekleffew said:


>



That's on the old 18v platform though. They new ones on the 20v max platform are much better. There is a lot more variety too.


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## ship (Sep 12, 2017)

Guns with yellow parts might help mis-shooters - hunters in not finding fellow (human) hunters having such things as with vests etc. What's the point of camafloge if using a road crew Orange/yellow reflective vest so as to keep you safe from other idiot hunters? Something in the news today proposed... something about to qualify for voting you must also qualify in voting in background research for a gun licience?


All in a way insulting to me who gave up guns after I left the military - and I am a Marine. I can respect other's views and concepts and do not take a lesser view. In fact, guns with yellow colors might help other's hunt more safely. If above a "thing" might be of interest for My Father In-Law. Can't fix his house but can hunt. I digress.


I do not own a gun other than a WWII flare gun in attic. I do not feel a need for a gun and would die and have my own family die in fighting hard for self defence by way of my own K-Bar stll in a drawer. I know the house and am still Marine.

Beyond that, I might bluf for an invader for home invation about something like a gun, but I neither want or own one. I have served in the Marines and stand by the point that my home ownership of handguns is not necessary.


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## RonHebbard (Sep 13, 2017)

ship said:


> Guns with yellow parts might help mis-shooters - hunters in not finding fellow (human) hunters having such things as with vests etc. What's the point of camafloge if using a road crew Orange/yellow reflective vest so as to keep you safe from other idiot hunters? Something in the news today proposed... something about to qualify for voting you must also qualify in voting in background research for a gun licience?
> 
> 
> All in a way insulting to me who gave up guns after I left the military - and I am a Marine. I can respect other's views and concepts and do not take a lesser view. In fact, guns with yellow colors might help other's hunt more safely. If above a "thing" might be of interest for My Father In-Law. Can't fix his house but can hunt. I digress.
> ...


 @ship Brian; I'll buy you were and are a Marine but are you sure you're an American? I thought the whole gun attitude thing was instilled at birth? More seriously Brian, I ALWAYS knew there was something I liked about you.
BTW; *I don't own any guns either* and don't feel at all bad about it. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Sep 13, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @ship Brian; I'll buy you were and are a Marine but are you sure you're an American? I thought the whole gun attitude thing was instilled at birth? More seriously Brian, I ALWAYS knew there was something I liked about you.
> BTW; *I don't own any guns either* and don't feel at all bad about it.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



It's only around 35% of us that actually own guns. . Google says you Canadians are at around 22% so you aren't that far behind us.


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## ship (Sep 16, 2017)

Back to topic in a moment..

My Daughter does qualify for "Daughter's of the American Revolution" and it should be an easy in given GrandMa's membership.

The Brushless 20V tried first and above disliked, in using it again recently I still don't like. The version with the brushes, I am getting used to in using more,/ and while not what I want, my DeWalt un-supported 14.4v tools - especially the middle generation of them are starting to go down hill fast.

I still use the 14.4v especially my first generation... basically no original parts left on it other than the switch DeWalt wouldn't replace. Even tried a defunct 12v drill for parts, but wouldn't fit right on a 14.4v pistol grip. Epoxy mending of the forward / reverse switch is working, and as opposed to second generation pistol grip heavier but similar which is slowing down, the original one works great.

Probably in the next year or two I will go 20v for my department and home. Best quality 14.4v tools we were using will become shop tools. This except the pistol grips.... I'll continue to use them as with the original T-Handle, than retire them. No advantage of an available pistol grip drill available for shop use if they have no idea of how to use it properly.


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## logan683 (Oct 23, 2017)

I would just like to say Makita makes a pretty sweet little drill, I tell you what.

Edit: I've used many of the same ones we've all used such as anything Harbour Freight or that quality to Black & Decker, Milwaukee, DeWalt, and Makita. Probably some others here and there, too. 

I say Makita because I've found, personally, they have the smoothest torque brake and seem to be the most accurate. No more slipping off screw heads or wallowing them out. That little hammer drill is pretty mean, too.


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## ship (Oct 25, 2017)

DeWalt DCD985 was my final choice in now having two of them.. the shop people in my department having another and overall my part and the other section of the company doing the 20v. Just makes it easier on a show site to have similar batteries. Still dislike the brushless version in lack of blade lock, though even the brushed versions seem to slip a bit until they find their teeth in the gears. The brushless tool has if any blade lock on either version, less so in tightening a bit and otherwise similar. I re-confurmed that in using all tools again last week.

Quickly back to being used to the T-Handle, don't like the single LED light on the source of drilling on the motor brushed version (as opposed to three of them on the brushless) - but never had a lighted drill before this. Overall it was the semi I would say motor lock engauging of the motors with brushes verses the just plain not being able to tighten the bit of the brushless drill that was the main factor.

Thanks to all in above advice but at some point given how much DeWalt 20v already was in use, I went to the standard brand and voltage.


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