# Dry Ice Machines and Anti freeze?



## PalikuTD (Aug 31, 2009)

Just wanted to see if anyone has tried adding Anti-freeze to dry ice machines. i hear it is very effective. Is there any health risks. Will I kill the Orchestra.


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## cprted (Aug 31, 2009)

I am not a chemist, nor am I a doctor, but I don't see adding something like anti-freeze into a mixture that is going to create a gas that could be inhaled as a smart thing to do. That could just be me though ...

What is the anti-freeze supposed to do to make the dry ice "very effective?"


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## DaveySimps (Aug 31, 2009)

Welcome to CB! I have moved your thread to the Special Effects Forum so it is posted in the appropriate place. Not all members regularly visit the New Member board.

Feel free to create a new thread and tell us about yourself and were you work.

My initial thoughts are that this falls under the "if you have to ask, you should not try" heading. Altering a device / machine or how it is used can be dangerous for everyone involved. Leave any experimenting in this arena to trained professionals in a test environment.

~Dave


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## len (Aug 31, 2009)

This has "bad idea" written all over it.

BTW, do you know how to make anti-freeze?

Take away her shawl.

I'll be here all week. Tip your servers.


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## philhaney (Aug 31, 2009)

I'm with DaveySimps on this one. There is a definate potential health risk. The Safety portion of our TOS states:


> The users of ControlBooth, in a effort to police themselves, have evolved the following: No discussion of "how-to" of rigging, pyrotechnics, human flight, stunt falls, weapons and electrical will be permitted. Our stock answer to these questions is always "Consult a qualified professional."



This doesn't fall into those categories, per se, but there is a risk none the less.

Sorry, but this thread is now closed.


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## gafftaper (Aug 31, 2009)

Antifreeze is EXTREMELY toxic. I recently saw a show on TV about a murder trail where a woman died from anti-freeze poisoning. Anti-freeze can kill in VERY small doses. It is definitely not something to take any kind of chances with. One of the scariest things about anti-freeze is that it takes a day to kill you and you have no idea you have been poisoned until it's too late. Don't ever play with antifreeze... and keep it away from your pets too. Thousands of dogs and cats die each year due to drinking carelessly spilled antifreeze in the street. 

Let's analyze the situation:

Normally, You heat the water to near the boiling point and drop the dry ice in. Along with turning to fog the dry ice also cools the water down. The water can freeze if the water is not hot enough initially or if your ice to water ratio is too high on ice. In theory the anti-freeze would keep the water from freezing and keep the dry ice fog lasting longer. However since the water would still be extremely cold I doubt you will see any fog at these temperatures. The other possible purpose for the anti-freeze would be to allow you to raise the temperature of the water above the boiling point... and this is where things get VERY dangerous. Fortunately most fog machines will have a safety shutoff around 190-200 degrees preventing any sort of high temperatures anyway (and thus preventing any benefit to using Antifreeze in the first place). 

If you had a fog machine that would allow you to super heat the antifreeze rich water things get very dangerous:
1) What sort of fumes does the anti-freeze give off when it is in high temperature water? Will these fumes KILL YOU? Do you absolutely *KNOW* you are safe or are you guessing? 

2) What happens when the dry ice sublimates to fog? Will it take particles of anti-freeze with it in the fog and KILL YOU? Do you absolutely *KNOW* you are safe or are you guessing? 

3) Is your fog machine designed to handle water above the boiling temperature?... or will it fall apart and pour super heated water all over the stage giving everyone 3rd degree burns? Do you absolutely *KNOW* you are safe or are you guessing? 

There are just far too many dangers involved to make it worth trying. DON'T DO IT. As a stage technician it is your job to absolutely 100% *KNOW* that everyone in the cast, crew, and audience will be safe. If you don't *KNOW*, the answer is always NO. We don't take chances with the safety of anyone. 

Get a good fog machine and follow the instructions and you'll have PLENTY of fog without endangering anyone. 

With that I'm going to close this thread. This isn't rigging or electricity but it's a very dangerous topic and against the spirit of the TOS. Again, DON'T DO IT... 
EDIT: Oops looks like while I was typing Phil beat me to closing the thread.


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## dvsDave (Sep 1, 2009)

FOLLOW-UP​
There is a follow-up post about the chemical makeup of water-based fog that explains why some people would say that there is anti-freeze in fog juice.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...out-take-look-what-water-based-fog-juice.html

DIRE WARNING​
Just because you now know what's in water-based fog, you SHOULD NOT attempt to make it yourself. 

P.S. Because I am the admin, I can override the closed thread.


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