# A logo of solidarity



## dvsDave (Jun 1, 2020)

I saw a post tonight on Facebook that resounded with me. Written by Douglas Lyons, an amazing and awesome actor, writer, composer, and somebody all of us should listen to right now.

https://www.facebook.com/douglas.lyons.35/posts/10102001392914579

I'll post it here as well:

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_The knee on the neck.

Some see the murder porn video of George Floyd’s death and say: “Ouch, how awful.” I’m now seeing theatre people sharing “Make Them Hear You” videos. But don’t think for one second that the politics of our industry aren’t an invisible version of that video.

The knee on the neck.

The ability to say: “I like your idea, but I don’t know if it’ll resonate with my audience.” Not because it’s not good, but because it’s not well “white or safe enough.”

The knee on the neck.

My ability to count Brown lead producers and theatre owners on one hand followed by my inability to find many creative Tony nominees who look like me. The token chorus roles. The big black gospel solo feature over and over and over again instead of the stories about our souls.

The knee on the neck.

The Black slot each season, testing black audience attendance with no desire to engage them further. The appreciation of black talent for the money it makes but the silence for the struggle it cries. The fear of writing this post or speaking my truth because coming off too radical could have its consequences.

The knee on the neck.

The Black artistic directors who can’t fully support you because they have a knee on their neck. The realization that it may be a black cast on stage but most of the royalties from that “award winning piece” forever fill a white pocket.

The knee on the neck.

I’ve been asked quite often from my white allies “what can I do?”. Share this post, and talk amongst yourselves. Dig deeper into your awareness of our business and unpack the fact that though you can’t see it, most of your black colleagues too have knees on their neck.

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So, all I ask of all of you, no matter what you do in the industry, today or in the future, let's make sure that we are not a knee on the neck of anyone in our industry. We must have our heads up and eyes open and be aware, vigilant against the damning silence of apathy.

I have modified ControlBooth's logo to show solidarity. Graphics are one of the ways I can express what I feel. This is my first step. There will be more, but I need to think about what I can do to help. What talents, resources and connections can I bring to this fight? What can I do to ensure that I'm not a knee on the neck? I don't expect to get much sleep tonight, but I hope each of you can reflect on what you can do as well. 

-David Silvernail
Owner, ControlBooth.com


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## MNicolai (Jun 1, 2020)

There's a spreadsheet floating around of theaters who have/haven't made statements in support of the black community. Can't say I agree with the idea of shaming theaters into "checking a box" by posting something online and patting themselves on the back...like...well...having a token minority in your cast, but since it's a list that may impact people here in the orbit of CB, I figured I'd share it.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 1, 2020)

Glad to see CB take a position. I know its not easy, but I support it.


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## dvsDave (Jun 1, 2020)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Glad to see CB take a position. I know its not easy, but I support it.



Taking a stand is the easy part, it is the right thing to do. The hard part is going to be how to figure out what I can do. Taking a stand is the start, but what can do, as myself, as CB? What can we as a community? I don't collect ethnic demographics about our users. I have no way to know how many people of color are even in the CB community. I don't know where most of you work, or live, other than you are here on ControlBooth because you are in the industry in some way. That's all I need to know. CB is, by it's very nature, colorblind like almost all online forums. I thought that was a good thing, where anyone could come and share information, or ask questions. Anonymity is respected on CB for a variety of reasons. Many of you I've chatted with and talked to long before I ever saw your face or met you in person. @gafftaper and I love to joke when headed out to LDI that we're going to Vegas to hang with friends we met on the internet. 

But I'm still not sure what I can do to help. Would love to hear any ideas of how I can help any one of you.


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## MNicolai (Jun 1, 2020)

IATSE's statement talked about supporting future legislation on the matter. Supporting and promoting legislation is probably one of the better ways to secure lasting change.

In my eyes, eliminating the roles that police unions have in accountability and discipline needs to be a top legislative priority. While I generally support labor unions, I cannot think of any other unions with the kind of grip on America that police unions have. Many communities cannot apply checks and balances to their police forces and weed out the bad apples until that is addressed and like with the military, if a police officer is terminated equivalent to a "dishonorable discharge", they should not be able to pop up 50 miles away at different department. Other important areas of legislation could include better recruiting so police serve the communities they live in, more training before entering the field, and offering the kind of deescalation training that our military receives.

Statements of support are fine but quickly turn into the trite "thoughts and prayers" we see with school shootings. If we don't grow effective legislation out of this moment, no amount of public awareness or support is going to prevent us from still being stuck in this cycle for another 50 years.

EDIT: added IATSE's statement.


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## ppas11hum (Jun 2, 2020)

I for one do not agree with the sentiment expressed in the original quote. I have many reasons why, but fear that I will be silenced for giving my opinion and disagreeing with anything not deemed politically correct. All I will say is that the arts industry is the most tolerant and accepting industry on planet earth.

And regarding the IATSE release....IATSE has the MOST work to do of anyone in the theater industry when it comes to this topic. Anyone who's spent time on a Local 1 crew can tell you that.


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## derekleffew (Jun 2, 2020)

dvsDave said:


> I have modified ControlBooth's logo to show solidarity. ...


Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 2, 2020)

derekleffew said:


> Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?


Note what replaced the first O in Control.


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## dvsDave (Jun 2, 2020)

derekleffew said:


> Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 2, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> If we don't grow effective legislation out of this moment, no amount of public awareness or support is going to prevent us from still being stuck in this cycle for another 50 years.



I was around and aware of the civil rights legislation in the 1960s. And much since over the intervening 50+ years. Hard to be optimistic about more legislation solving this.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 2, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> While I generally support labor unions, I cannot think of any other unions with the kind of grip on America that police unions have.


Maybe we should build rubber rooms for police, like the NYC department of education has for teachers accused of misconduct. Show up, spend a shift there, collect pay and benefits, and eventually retire.


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## MNicolai (Jun 2, 2020)

ppas11hum said:


> I for one do not agree with the sentiment expressed in the original quote. I have many reasons why, but fear that I will be silenced for giving my opinion and disagreeing with anything not deemed politically correct. All I will say is that the arts industry is the most tolerant and accepting industry on planet earth.



Not sure what your concerns are but I have a similar feeling about the spreadsheet calling out groups who have/haven't expressed public support. I'm sure there are some racist, sexist, or simply shitty theaters to work for but cataloging 500 theaters with when they posted a statement or if they haven't yet doesn't do much to target the theaters that need to get their act together. Feels like you're just asking to be pandered to without any lasting commitment. I read through some of the tweets surrounding the spreadsheet from those who created it and understand there are legitimate issues they are trying to resolve but that message isn't getting out right now and isn't yet being clearly articulated. If there are a dozen theaters on there that treat minorities like a commodity and refuse to produce plays relevant to matters that resonate with black audiences and performers and who should be subject to criticism, you wouldn't know that from that spreadsheet. If that's actually 200 theaters and I would never have guessed that because I don't personally experience that myself -- I wouldn't know that either. I hope to learn more about that in days to come.


> And regarding the IATSE release....IATSE has the MOST work to do of anyone in the theater industry when it comes to this topic. Anyone who's spent time on a Local 1 crew can tell you that.



One of the first replies on Twitter to their statement was challenging them to stand up to the AFL CIO, who has very strong relationships with police unions. The real question is if their statement of support will amount to much or if it's astroturf.

@BillConnerFASTC, I don't know that anyone has a perfect answer for this because it's a complicated problem going back several hundred years, but on the legislative side here's my wish lish, in no particular order except the first one — through which all others would actually become possible:

Eliminate police unions from restricting accountability and discipline procedures. If they want to lobby for working conditions, hours, and benefits like an ordinary labor union go for it but they cannot have a role in deciding how police are disciplined.
Create community oversight systems.
Provide longer recruit training.
Provide threat assessment, ROE, and de-escalation training like our military receives.
Establish nationwide use of force, officer complaints, and termination database. Like a dishonorable discharge from the military, a police officer terminated for abusing use of force or similarly egregious behavior should not be able to pop up at another department 50 miles away.
Improve consistency and application of where and how body cams are used and and what happens to officers found skirting such policies.
Mandate officers must live within x minutes or miles from their place of work to ensure officers are members of the communities they serve.
Ban any regional calamity of jail policies that may incentivize bad behavior like those jail where the Sheriff gets $x,xxx,xxx for inmate meals but gets to personally take home the balance of whatever’s left in that budget at the end of that fiscal cycle. (Can’t remember if that in Arizona or in Louisiana/Mississippi I heard about that insane policy)
Eliminate or vastly reduce the scale of bail programs. Bail is essentially a tax on poor people and minorities. DC’s cashless bail program has been in place since 1992 and they save $400MM a year by not having to pay to house inmates who are eligible for pre-trial release but who cannot afford it.
Whatever other good ideas there may be out there.
There’s no silver bullet that will solve everything but pulling hard on many different levers all at once can help level the playing field and fundamentally change America’s relationship with law enforcement.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 2, 2020)

derekleffew said:


> Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?


On the top left corner of Control Booths Dark and Gold Home page. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard

derekleffew said:


> Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?


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## MNicolai (Jun 2, 2020)

I'm creating a separate post for what has settled in with me over the last couple days, because I don't want it buried in other minutia.

Passively waiting for the situation to improve by letting black and brown people stage this fight on their own won't be enough. A ton of people on the sidelines who don't feel its their place to have a voice in this conversation ensures the movement will not gain much traction -- certainly not the amount required to produce widespread change. If you don't feel you understand what needs to happen, spend an hour or two poking around on Google or asking your minority friends -- there isn't an absence of perspective on the matter if you spend a small amount of time looking for it.

Not everyone's going to agree or have a perfect understanding of the landscape or other peoples' perspective, but that doesn't mean you can't show up for the conversation and play an active role in it.

Personally, I've made some donations and started putting wheels in motion through my corporate food chain to gauge what we can be doing in communities we serve. Maybe that's advocating for legislation or maybe it's developing community outreach programs to get schools in minority neighborhoods excited about science and engineering. What I sure hope it's not though is a momentary press release sign of support without any long term impact.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 2, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> ) There’s no silver bullet that will solve everything but pulling hard on many different levers all at once can help level the playing field and fundamentally change America’s relationship with law enforcement.


 *@MNicolai* Can a resident from north of lil' Donnie's wall suggest that voting is where to aim your first silver bullet? 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## MNicolai (Jun 2, 2020)

RonHebbard said:


> *@MNicolai* Can a resident from north of lil' Donnie's wall suggest that voting is where to aim your first silver bullet?



If you're making a suggestion that Trump is part of the problem, he is, but I suspect his impact on it is marginal in the bigger picture. He's probably set our race relations back a few years but we could have a democratic senate, house, and presidency like we may have this fall and it wouldn't fundamentally change much for race relations and policing. Police unions have a grip on lobbying that's only paralleled by the NRA, big oil, and big pharma. If democrats _or anyone_ are going to effectively move the needle on this subject, it will only be because of overwhelming public demand -- which is why we can't leave our black and brown community members to fight this battle on their own. They will need us to speak up too.


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## TimMc (Jun 3, 2020)

^^^ This.

For a YooToob rabbit hole worthy of pursuit I suggest becoming acquainted with Jane Elliott (search hint) and if you've got the time, watch the PBS Frontline doc "A Class Divided". If you need the Reader's Digest version, "Eye of the Storm" from Xerox Films in 1970. Jane is still alive and working at age 82 and was a guest on Jimmy Fallon last night. She pioneered the "blue eyes/brown eyes" segregation/discrimination exercise and has honed it since.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 3, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> Eliminate police unions from restricting accountability and discipline procedures. If they want to lobby for working conditions, hours, and benefits like an ordinary labor union go for it but they cannot have a role in deciding how police are disciplined.


Why just police? Why not all unions or at least all unions for civil service?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 3, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> Mandate officers must live within x minutes or miles from their place of work to ensure officers are members of the communities they serve.


See https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/25/...#:~:text=Kemp said.,long as they are employed.

Why not apply it to all employees in municipality? Teachers, fire service, streets and sanitation, etc.


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## MNicolai (Jun 3, 2020)

I look at it from the perspective that law enforcement is generally an extension of the executive branch and must be subject to the checks and balances of the people, other branches, and the executive. Right now, there are a lot of mayors who cannot hold their police departments accountable in any meaningful way nor can local judicial branches. Police have wide, often enough unchecked discretion to act as judge and jury, blurring the lines between the responsibilities and scope of each branch, and at times preventing other branches from being able to exercise their own authority. Policing will always require officers be able to exercise discretion in how they enforce laws -- but that discretion needs to fit within a framework of accountability so enforcement is applied equally across demographics.

Other civil service groups don't really fit into a particular governmental branch where we fundamentally depend on those kinds of checks and balances for our civil rights so it's not be appropriate to apply the same policies to them in a blanket fashion. They should still be accountable to their municipalities because it's our tax dollars at work but efficiency of municipal services is much more of a local matter whereas constitutional rights and protections are universal anywhere in the country.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 3, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> Other civil service groups don't really fit into a particular governmental branch where we fundamentally depend on those kinds of checks and balances for our civil rights


I disagree. Teachers, building officials, health departments, fire protection, tax collection - they and more can impact our civil rights.


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## TimMc (Jun 3, 2020)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> I disagree. Teachers, building officials, health departments, fire protection, tax collection - they and more can impact our civil rights.


Pretty much none of the above can kill you with a weapon or government sanctioned "holds" and get away with it.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 3, 2020)

No, but the can molest children and miss hazards within their control that can kill. Why wouldn't be in the best interest of the citizens if all the civil servants " must live within x minutes or miles from their place of work to ensure officers are members of the communities they serve." And while some would prefer to penalize all law enforcement for the acts of a few, there is a question of fairness.

I tend to believe the unintended consequences of residency requirements will prove to be worse than the benefits.


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## MNicolai (Jun 3, 2020)

Any of the items I listed require further public deliberation and debate, but they are directly informed by real problems that exist. When cops don't look like the communities they serve and aren't neighbors with the people they interact with every day, it sets up the pretense for an "us versus them" situation. Residency requirements don't need to be a one-size-fits-all or hardline policy but could also be a preferred policy of training/recruiting or requiring a % of officers be local or achieve a % of diversity so that the police force is aware of and empathetic towards other life experiences people have that are different from their own -- that starts by not being surrounded by 40 peers who look exactly like them and have almost the exact same life stories -- if even 15 of those peers have a diverse life experience, that helps set the tone for balancing things out over the long term.

Let's stop talking past each other though. If you're taking the long route to say you think that residency isn't a good approach, just get to the point and state your case rather than be disagreeable in this cat and mouse kind of way. The reality is that any possible solutions will have unintended consequences but the injustices we're faced with won't go away on their own and right now black and brown people are being murdered, imprisoned, and left with convictions that prevent them from access to better schools and gainful employment because of crimes that someone white wouldn't have gotten more than a warning for. A good plan swiftly executed now will be much better than a perfect plan we have to wait another 15 years for. What's not acceptable is to keep doing what we've been doing and cross our fingers that somehow the status quo will fix itself because we're too afraid we won't get it perfectly right the first time.

A fundamental difference between sanitation worker/tax collectors/building officials and police -- Police are the only ones who make a decision in a split second whether you are going to live or die or whether they're going to arrest you. Everyone has else has all the time in the world to decide if you pose a threat to them or not but officers act based on their first impression and implicit bias. If they're not comfortable around people who are different from them, that's a big problem that gets people dead.


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## Catherder (Jun 4, 2020)

Been thinking about how I want to respond to this since Dave started the thread. First, thank you @dvsDave for starting this conversation - it's not an easy one but it is necessary. Totally agree with some of the things Mike and others have said - yes, definitely push legislation and lobby your representatives; yes, donations to social justice groups and organizations. Especially recurring sustained donations. Working to assist the long term financial stability of those groups will go so much farther than a one time contribution during a time of increased exposure and crisis.

I also think about what I can do personally and locally to support Black and Brown communities directly as an ally. What is in my personal sphere of influence that I can look at with a greater focus on equity? I've been thinking about this in the context of my kids a lot as well. Their school has about 450 students and is about 60-65% white. The last play that we did (the one that was canceled because of COVID) had about 50 youth in the cast and another 15-20 on the crew. Without knowing exactly how each of those youth identify I can pretty safely say that over 95% of them are white. Yes, it's only one extracurricular activity of many, but it's the one that I am involved in. I look at the leadership group and 7 of the 8 of us are white. The last few plays that we've done are Willy Wonka, Alice in Wonderland, and Snow White. Even the director original we did last fall was inspired by and based on the Narnia series, which are about the whitest books ever written. I really appreciate Mike's point above about not being surrounded by 40 peers who look like you and have similar life experiences. He is 100% spot on. I can do better, as a person who volunteers with youth, in thinking critically about the choices I make and the direction I take things. Is that going to solve police brutality or end hundreds of years of systemic racism in this country? No. But maybe by thinking harder about the things we choose to offer and the youth we encourage to participate - in whatever capacity they choose - I can help to present a broader definition of 'self' vs 'other' for a small group of kids, and can be a better ally for the Black and Brown members of the community in which I live.

I don't know. Those are some of the things that have been percolating lately for me.


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## JimOC_1 (Jun 4, 2020)

This came in through the email today. Nice to see.

"Shakespeare Theatre Company supports those protesting in Washington, D.C. for Black Lives Matter, for justice, for equality, and for civil rights. The Michael R. Klein Theatre at the Lansburgh will be open Saturday and Sunday from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. as a resource for protesters offering water, snacks, bathrooms, WiFi, charging stations, first aid, and A/C. We encourage anyone who needs a safe indoor place off the streets to regroup to come to our space.

We ask that all entrants wear a mask and adhere to social distancing guidelines and be respectful of each other's needs. STC staff will be on hand to help facilitate social distancing and keep the spaces cleaned and sanitized.

The Michael R. Klein Theatre at the Lansburgh is located in the Penn Quarter/Chinatown neighborhood at *450 7th Street NW, Washington, DC 20001* near the intersection of 7th Street NW and E Street NW. We regret that we cannot also open Sidney Harman Hall on F Street NW at this time."
____________________________________________________________________
fwiw, our house has decided to sit this one out for now. A bit guilty as we are close to DC and get involved in events from time to time. The virus is real for some of us at risk. This has made us more appreciative of those going out in spite of the president's threats of violence, in spite of the virus, and now in spite of the heat. As a kid I was at some big events at the Lincoln in the 60s, and fireworks on the 4th every summer. Seeing our military lined up on the steps like storm troopers calls for a sad face emoji with a tear. What else can a person do, vote. Lead by example, set the standard. Volunteer at the schools when it is safe to go back in. Mentor the "kids" at work.


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## ppas11hum (Jun 6, 2020)

MNicolai said:


> If you're making a suggestion that Trump is part of the problem, he is, but I suspect his impact on it is marginal in the bigger picture. He's probably set our race relations back a few years but we could have a democratic senate, house, and presidency like we may have this fall and it wouldn't fundamentally change much for race relations and policing. Police unions have a grip on lobbying that's only paralleled by the NRA, big oil, and big pharma. If democrats _or anyone_ are going to effectively move the needle on this subject, it will only be because of overwhelming public demand -- which is why we can't leave our black and brown community members to fight this battle on their own. They will need us to speak up too.



First, I appreciate the gentle approach being taken by everyone, and I understand my opinion is not a popular one here. So I appreciate you listening to my perspective.

In my opinion President Obama did nowhere near enough to improve race relations in America in any great capacity during his term in office. We voted in an African American president with 53% (I believe) of the popular vote. He could have spent 8 years fixing these issues and did virtually nothing. Two African American Attorney Generals and no meaningful change, as evidenced by the oppression being felt by many today. I understand that the theater industry is by and large made up of liberals (like this forum....which in my opinion SHOULD be staying apolitical but let's @RonHebbard joke about "lil donnie's walls" in EVERY post he makes) but there are many Republicans in the theater industry who agree with Trump, know he is not a racist, and just aren't motivated to speak up when they know they are going to be attacked and blacklisted. We just vote in elections.

The blacklist being created to force theaters into taking a stand on the issue is outrageous. It is being done in a TON of industries. Many of the people running the groups/business putting up posts supposedly supporting the Black Live's Matter movement personally do not want to get involved because most businesses know better than to get involved in social issues. They are only doing so to protect one thing....their money. They don't want to go out of business because someone ASSUMES they are racist because they are a Republican or (god forbid) support Donald Trump.

Let's look at it another way....if you believe the mainstream media polls then 42-45% of America approves of Trump's job performance. Because the social media & mainstream media has done a masterful job of making Trump the villain in all of this (a sentiment some of you share based on your posts above) I think it is a fair assumption that most of those people approving of Trump do not believe business or individuals should be attacked for not wanting to get involved in social issues because of the negative effect it could have on their business. So now you have business owners who, after struggling to recover from the coronavirus pandemic might alienate ANOTHER segment of their customer base who agree that what happened was absolutely terrible, but don't agree with the direction many of the protests have taken.

People or businesses should not be attacked because they choose not to take a stand on the issue. It doesn't mean I don't agree with the cause (I do!) but because I don't want to get involved. Ostracizing a group who chooses not to get involved is jut wrong, and in my opinion is hurting the very cause they are trying to further.


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## Van (Jun 6, 2020)

ppas11hum said:


> In my opinion President Obama did nowhere near enough to improve race relations in America in any great capacity during his term in office. We voted in an African American president with 53% (I believe) of the popular vote. He could have spent 8 years fixing these issues and did virtually nothing. Two African American Attorney Generals and no meaningful change, as evidenced by the oppression being felt by many today.


That you cannot see the inherent racist nature of this statement confirms to me that you do not truly understand why you are a republican and side with the fear-monger in the White house. I'm sorry, was Racism Obama fault? Because he was black he was supposed to fix it? Because we had two Attorneys General that were black THEY were supposed to fix racism? Do you think "Obama did nothing" because while under his guidance this Nations racists and the Republican party did more to gin up anti minority sentiment than every before?
Tell you what. I'm going to send you into a shop that hasn't been maintained in the last 400 years and I expect you to produce a perfectly measured and constructed set inside of oh 4 weeks, and balance the the companies budget, grow the Companies ticket sales and Do what you can about the Fires that were started in the Lobby and Women's rest room by your predecessor.

I just deleted the rest of my response because it devolved quickly into an ad hominem which is beneath me and not constructive.
I'll simply close by saying you are wrong in your last paragraph. Silence is consent. Not saying anything is not acceptable. You can feel bad on the inside all you want you are still standing by and watching a man get lynched. You go ahead and sit on the sidelines. then wonder why nobody cares about you and your opinions later. It is my opinion that you have some serious soul-searching to do.


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## TimMc (Jun 6, 2020)

The difference, in the USA, between "revolutionaries" and "rioter" is mostly skin color. Note that armed citizens forced their "polite society" on the Michigan legislature and received support from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, but when people of darker tones take to the streets, unarmed, they are greeted with tear gas, less-lethal weapons, and plain old fashioned billy club beatings.

You can't wish that away. You can't excuse it or worse, justify it as a matter of policy. It's a direct violation of the 1st and 14th Amendments.


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## MNicolai (Jun 6, 2020)

America was built on slavery. Racism is our original sin. The idea that Obama could've moved the needle much on racism is pretty farcical. If he had taken a stronger position on it the backlash would've been overwhelming and would've further fueled hate against blacks and minorities. As-is, racial tensions against Obama are probably the reason Trump was able to make an entire campaign out of building a wall, finding a birth certificate, and preventing immigration. A popular groundswell from the community level is the only way to effectively improve race relations. If Obama made his presidency about fixing race relations, Fox News would've run headlines like "Obama Lectures Whites" and the whole situation would've exploded.


ppas11hum said:


> The blacklist being created to force theaters into taking a stand on the issue is outrageous...



Yeahhh...I probably wouldn't call it "blacklist" and certainly not "_the blacklist". _

But you really need to consider what "the issue" is. The people who started the list are specifically aggrieved by how few black performers/writers/stagehands/etc get hired and how few plays on black issues or written by black playwrights get produced. In this moment, they are seeking that theaters show their support for the protests and black issues but the greater context is that they're underrepresented in the theater industry as a whole. In that regard, this has a lot less to do about people swearing off of Chick-fil-a because a CEO made a comment about gay marriage and more to do about how these theaters choose to ignore their culture, choose not to hire them except for "token" positions, and plan seasons without any black playwrights featured.


ppas11hum said:


> Because the social media & mainstream media has done a masterful job of making Trump the villain in all of this (a sentiment some of you share based on your posts above) I think it is a fair assumption that most of those people approving of Trump do not believe business or individuals should be attacked for not wanting to get involved in social issues because of the negative effect it could have on their business.



Putting it mildly, Trump's taken a number of opportunities to stoke the flames and encourage white supremacists. The media's complicity in this is that they chose to give him the airtime to do so. He been given an almost endless amount of free media where his speeches are presented on TV word for word out of his own mouth. I don't expect any president can fix racism because at best all a president can do on that matter is attempt to set a tone but Trump's chosen to be as divisive as possible time and time again. And it's pretty easy to look at Trump as a villain in this story when he's using a church and a bible as a prop while tear gassing Americans for a photo op in lieu of actually taking this opportunity to attempt to engage the black community. He hasn't made any attempts whatsoever to be a unifying force even in his call to George Floyd's family he was treating it like a campaign stop, giving a speech instead of listening to what the Floyd family had to say.


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## dvsDave (Jun 6, 2020)

I stand by what I have said. I will leave this thread open in hopes that it will lead to thoughtful discussion and debate. Personal attacks, hateful speech, and trolling will be deleted. 

Thoughtful discussion regardless of the point of view is encouraged. The nation is badly divided and we can't even agree on what the facts are, especially given that social media platforms like Twitter and Facebook, use algorithms that are tuned to only show you a view of the world and "facts" you agree with. The real world is far more complex than _your_ feed would have you believe. People are far more complex than the idiots from the other side your preferred news source makes them out to be. They have deeply held beliefs and reasons for their actions just as you do. Dismissing them without understanding them only prolongs the fight. As long as you are respectful, CB is here for you to have a difficult discussion with people that you don't agree with. 

In the end, this is too small an industry for us to be at each other's throats. Let's all take a step back, take a deep breath, and lead our industry by example. 

Thank you


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## simoneves (Jun 10, 2020)

derekleffew said:


> Where might one view this, mutilated, logo?



Forgive me as a long-time lurker, but am I the only one offended by the wording of that question?


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## dvsDave (Jun 10, 2020)

simoneves said:


> Forgive me as a long-time lurker, but am I the only one offended by the wording of that question?


Derek takes issue every time I modify the logo, this has nothing to do with the subject material, but rather he objects every time I modify the branding of ControlBooth, for any reason.


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## simoneves (Jun 10, 2020)

dvsDave said:


> Derek takes issue every time I modify the logo, this has nothing to do with the subject material, but rather he objects every time I modify the branding of ControlBooth, for any reason.



Still a poor choice of adjective, in isolation, IMHO. I'll shut up now.


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## dvsDave (Jun 10, 2020)

simoneves said:


> Still a poor choice of adjective, in isolation, IMHO. I'll shut up now.


No worries, It's okay to call it out as you see it. I should have said something earlier, and I made the mistake of forgetting that not everyone knew the back-history. That's on me.


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## simoneves (Jun 10, 2020)

dvsDave said:


> No worries, It's okay to call it out as you see it. I should have said something earlier, and I made the mistake of forgetting that not everyone knew the back-history. That's on me.



Thank you.


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## Todd Seage (Jun 10, 2020)

ppas11hum said:


> The blacklist being created to force theaters into taking a stand on the issue is outrageous. It is being done in a TON of industries. Many of the people running the groups/business putting up posts supposedly supporting the Black Live's Matter movement personally do not want to get involved because most businesses know better than to get involved in social issues. They are only doing so to protect one thing....their money. They don't want to go out of business because someone ASSUMES they are racist because they are a Republican or (god forbid) support Donald Trump.
> 
> Let's look at it another way....if you believe the mainstream media polls then 42-45% of America approves of Trump's job performance. Because the social media & mainstream media has done a masterful job of making Trump the villain in all of this (a sentiment some of you share based on your posts above) I think it is a fair assumption that most of those people approving of Trump do not believe business or individuals should be attacked for not wanting to get involved in social issues because of the negative effect it could have on their business. So now you have business owners who, after struggling to recover from the coronavirus pandemic might alienate ANOTHER segment of their customer base who agree that what happened was absolutely terrible, but don't agree with the direction many of the protests have taken.



Welcome to capitalism...you got it right, it has a lot to do with money. Lets do look at it your other way. People got smart and realized they do have some power after all, the power of the check book or debit card or bit coin or whatever. How is this not fair again? It gets done by both sides so I think down off the soapbox maybe? I mean if they don't think they are racists they can just post that they aren't racists and that should be enough. According to the statistics, which you firmly put an asterisk on, (that's not based on the "poll" I keep seeing as an advertisement trying to get me to approve of Donald Trump is it? The one by the Elect Donald Trump 2020 people? Poor soft hearted man cannot stand it when people don't "like him".), so then how many people don't believe what you just said and do believe Trump and his administration to be part of the problem and not the solution and want to hold them, Republicans that won't speak out about him, and people who give him money accountable. Yes we will see in November for sure but whats the number then, of people who think Donald Trump is wrong and not doing a good job? More than 45% I guess, don't approve, more than 50%, a majority? It's a free economy. Just like you vote, people who don't agree with you can decide they will hold a business accountable for their actions or inactions. You may not like it, just like I think its outrageous for a business to deny a couple a wedding cake based on their sexual orientation. I mean that seems silly right? But its a free economy so it works both ways. You can not serve me and I can choose not to shop there or with people who agree with you and I can tell 10 friends that your business is making a poor choice. And it is just a list after all, a list! If all the people that you are counting on, to vote as you do, band together, this 45% approval rating, then this shouldn't be a problem I should think. I mean they all go to the theatre and support our industry right? Your folks are mostly theatre goers correct? They will rush to the theatres that think Donald Trump is doing a good job, in droves...just like they rush to line up outside of Chick-fil-a (for the record I don't care about their politics, their food is horrible). I wouldn't worry about any old list. You have right on your side anyway, correct? Also I assume when you mention the "mainstream media" you include the conservative mainstream media outlets, right? According to Fox they are the most watched...so...guess that's part of the mainstream media? Or do you just mean media centers you don't agree with?


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## DuckJordan (Jun 11, 2020)

ppas11hum said:


> First, I appreciate the gentle approach being taken by everyone, and I understand my opinion is not a popular one here. So I appreciate you listening to my perspective.
> 
> In my opinion President Obama did nowhere near enough to improve race relations in America in any great capacity during his term in office. We voted in an African American president with 53% (I believe) of the popular vote. He could have spent 8 years fixing these issues and did virtually nothing. Two African American Attorney Generals and no meaningful change, as evidenced by the oppression being felt by many today. I understand that the theater industry is by and large made up of liberals (like this forum....which in my opinion SHOULD be staying apolitical but let's @RonHebbard joke about "lil donnie's walls" in EVERY post he makes) but there are many Republicans in the theater industry who agree with Trump, know he is not a racist, and just aren't motivated to speak up when they know they are going to be attacked and blacklisted. We just vote in elections.
> 
> ...




So a few things with this argument I disagree with, some I can see the argument others are seemingly out of nowhere maybe a more insightful explanation?

No, President Obama didn't do enough to improve race relations but that is a hind sight thing. The country was still riding high on the first minority president, and can you blame them. Out of 44 prior presidents this is the first? There were also quite a few big deal issues that he was working on and wasn't getting a whole lot of support from anywhere in the government (it moves slow like any government) so placing emphasis on a past president seems to be what the current administration likes to do. 

Theatre has/is/will be always political. Its always talked about current social problems. Its always rebelled or congratulated governments to say a theatre forum should be "apolitical" is to me misunderstanding what theatre is about. Many republicans may believe Donald Trump isn't racist but his actions and words seem to strongly suggest otherwise to many who's only skin in it was a question of if they viewed his statements as racist. 

the blacklist being created is what unions do. If a venue isn't doing what they need to do to make work safe, reasonable, and open to all its in the industries best interest to stay away from those venues. As a contractor I can choose to decline a client for any reason I wish. I can state this reason and express to others why they should decline to work with said client to organize either a change or removal of the client. Thats capitalism. Many businesses that don't get involved with social issues is more likely they are wanting the most profit out of a situation and aren't sure which side they should hitch their company with to maximize that profit. its not about "knowing better"

I also have an issue with the Polls of approval rating, Many of them are skewed and even using the same data sets manipulating them can get vastly different % numbers. 

Also businesses aren't being attacked. Their policies and views are being made public and what the general public chooses to do with that information (whether to support the business or stop using that business) is well within the rights of the consumer in a capitalist economy.

Again what I'm seeing from the arguments in favor of the current administration is to pass the blame to everyone else. We all talk about personal responsibility but wont apply that to business owners or the government. My state is just as guilty of this as when bills get passed that negatively effect us we don't look to how our representatives voted or fought for it we'd rather place blame on another states representative for not doing a enough or supporting the wrong cause. 

Most of the bad media coverage that Trump has received is due to the no accountability (which is the same thing that the current protests are about). Its built into our way of life right now and that is a major problem. We could argue for years about where it stemmed from (I believe its partially due to the litigious nature of american society), however the current issues and complaints are about holding those we have placed to protect and serve accountable for the actions that they do. Whether that's a police officer or a board managing a theater, they're all accountable to the actions they take but have attempted to remove themselves from being accountable. 

My own organization is struggling through the push from below to start being accountable with what we do and not just see ourselves as a necessary function that wont take any heat from the actions we do.


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