# Need some advice on new console used for concert busking .



## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

I have been running 2 leprecon LP1536s for quite sometime to run our rigs that incude conventionals and moving lights . Needless to say our desk is much older then our rig and it has taken some engineering to get it all going lol . But its time we make the big move to purchase a new desk for our company as we have ran out of channels for adding new stuff to the rig . We have looked into many different desks and just cant seem to get any good advice on what will fit our needs . 

We do a lot of "busking" so i need somthing that you can grab fixtures and change looks on the fly . I really am not a fan of Pc software so it needs to be a actual self supporting desk . Any advice you guys could give me would be great I dont want to take a stab in the dark when i make the purchase . thanks fellas !!!!


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## techieman33 (Aug 16, 2013)

Something in the Avolites pearl line would be my first choice.


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

Thank you ! I will start researching today on that line I also probably add our budget is in the $5000 dollar range . How about a zero88 frog ? Any one had any luck with them ?


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

I don't mind buying used to fit our budget .


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## StNic54 (Aug 16, 2013)

Whatever console you choose to run with, make sure it is an up-to-date model. I know the grandMA 2 programming wing is around $8k, and it would cover your needs. I'm not a fan of the Zero88 gear, and I would definitely not get a used Frog. Any console that still requires a 3.5" floppy will be a tough one to keep updated on fixture profiles. Otherwise, the Jands Vista is very price friendly, ETC is continuing their lines with much success, and the list goes on. If you can afford to buy a touch-screen monitor, then any of the PC consoles would be fine for what you are doing.


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## techieman33 (Aug 16, 2013)

StNic54 said:


> Whatever console you choose to run with, make sure it is an up-to-date model. I know the grandMA 2 programming wing is around $8k, and it would cover your needs. I'm not a fan of the Zero88 gear, and I would definitely not get a used Frog. Any console that still requires a 3.5" floppy will be a tough one to keep updated on fixture profiles. Otherwise, the Jands Vista is very price friendly, ETC is continuing their lines with much success, and the list goes on. If you can afford to buy a touch-screen monitor, then any of the PC consoles would be fine for what you are doing.



None of those are within his stated budget, and none are busking friendly. The very basic jands vista surface does fit within budget but it would be terrible for trying to busk a show. As far as floppys go they are still out there, and you can get a usb floppy drive. In that price range they will either be dealing with floppys or computer based consoles with a small wing.


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## cbrandt (Aug 16, 2013)

Depending on the size of your current and future rig, a Smartfade ML would be well within your price range. You'd have to weigh the benefit of a brand new console against the more limited feature set. 

As far as used, you won't find an Avo Pearl Expert in that range, but 2004/2008s are available. You can find Hog 3's for slightly out of your price range. 

I have to agree that for a fully featured console at that price range, a wing is your best bet. You might find a deal somewhere on a used console, and you should jump on it if you can, but you have to look far and wide to find those.


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

I really would like too stay away from PC wings , I personally love my old Leprecon Lp,s have used one for 10 years now . So I was thinking on trying to stick with them . Any thoughts on the Leprecon LP x48 ? So far on the desks mentioned here I am liking the avo pearl . I found a avo pearl 2000 that's been updated to a 2004 that fits our budget do you guys see any problems i would have with that desk ? Floppys don't bother me I can deal with that .


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

Here is what we run normally but as all of you know that can very , but our standard rig we use weekly consists of this .

40k pars some rays 
6mac 250s 
4 atomics 
6 led Colorado's 
4 intellabeams 
4 cycs 
4 legend 250rxs


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

Hilariously I have ran all this by multiple leprecon lps LMAO dodgy I know but hey it works ! That's why I'm here


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## cbrandt (Aug 16, 2013)

That rig would just about max out the Smartfade ML. You get a maximum of 24 discrete fixtures (you can of course address things to the same address, such as the strobes), and 48 conventional channels. It is easy enough to patch down the conventionals to fit on 48 channels, but you would have no room for expansion of your intelligent inventory. That combined with the fact that you don't get a monitor, the ML is probably a little too small for your needs.

The pearls are great desks. Personally, I prefer the Titan software to the classic, but we still have plenty of people around us that run classic. You'd need a Pearl Expert or newer to be able to run Titan.

I love the Martin consoles, but you couldn't get a dedicated console at your price range. The M2GO is almost 9k list, and the only cheaper option is their wing which is the exact same surface, but you need a laptop for a brain. Since you don't want to do wings, I'd take a nice long look at your used console options.

If that Pearl 2004 is in good condition, I'd think seriously about it. You should be able to get another 4 or 5 years out of it without worrying.


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

That's kinda what I was leaning too as well , I'm gonna do some serious research on the pearl line . I want to thank you guys for taking the time out of your busy days to answer these questions ! I got to get rid of these multiple leprecons (what we have named Frakenconsole LMAO ) its always hard to let go of what you are "used too " lol I was raised on the leps . But you would definitely say that the pearls are the best "busking" console to use that fits my budget ?


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## JohnD (Aug 16, 2013)

As far as used, you might also consider Congo-kid or junior.
In addition to the ETC smartfade ML also take a look at the Pathway Cognito. 
Pathway Connectivity, an Acuity Brands Company - Products
You can download the software and try it first.


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## cbrandt (Aug 16, 2013)

Now you're into the realm of opinion. Avo consoles were built to run concerts. They are great for doing things on the fly, and you can beat them for sheer number of faders and buttons at your fingertips.

That being said, they do things differently than most other consoles, and can either be a joy, or the most frustrating thing in your life.

See if you can go hang out at a local rental shop and play with something similar to what you want to buy. Nothing replaces hands on time to decide if you like something.

Even better, see if the guy you are buying the console from will let you take it out on a gig to try it out.

I prefer other consoles personally, but you can't talk down the quality of an Avo, keeping in mind that it is 10-12 years old at this point, of course.


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## WLProductions (Aug 16, 2013)

Thank you so much cbrandt you nailed it that's what I'm after faders and bumps at my finger tips . I will definitely go try a few thank you !!


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## JohnD (Aug 16, 2013)

Here is another thread that discussed the Avolites pearl:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/32842-busking-like-boss.html
Something I really like about Avolites is this:
Avolites Personality Library
I wish the other console makers would do the same thing with an easy way to search to see if the profile exists already.
Something else to consider, are there going to be other consoles like what you select available locally. It is really important to have a back up plan in place.


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## cue1go (Aug 17, 2013)

Avo's tend to be the affordable go-to for busking. I know people who are fans of the Martin M1 or M2GO, which are both less expensive than say a Hog or MA.


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## TJCornish (Aug 17, 2013)

Street price of the RoadHog 4 is about 8k new.


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## Judge (Aug 17, 2013)

What kind of shows are we talking about here? Mainly music? 
Zero88 Solution might fit the bill, its quite good value if you can get used to its idiosyncrasies and programming mode.
Avolites Pearl - cannot go wrong with one of these. Bombproof and easy to use. A new Tiger is almost within your budget.
Don't get an ETC - they are great for theatre but not live stuff.
Whoever mentioned a grandMA 2 programming wing - seriously? It only has 6 playbacks! And 8K instead of 5k. And hard to get to grips with.
Jands are, weird if you are not used to them and also lack sufficient playbacks.
But speaking of wings - and I know you said you dont like them - but let me just say that ChamSys PC Wings are rock solid and behave just like their big desks. Plenty of high profile shows out using this stuff. Just consider, you can get a dedicated PC, touchscreen, Maxi Wing and Extra wing for added playbacks and executers just about within your budget. It has to be the best value and most versatile solution. If you are not familiar with their gear, it is fast and intuitive and you can operate it in regular style or full theatre tracking mode. Have a look.


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## bishopthomas (Aug 17, 2013)

I love using Avo consoles. I'm sitting behind my Tiger right now. It's so nice to have buttons and faders, things to grab when stuff is happening. I can't imagine running a show on some of the major controllers after I've been using Avo for several years. Where are all the handles!? Guitarist plays a solo and I reach up to push the corresponding fader. Simple as that. Anything else just doesn't make sense to me. I'll often run a moving light show with only 6-8 playbacks. Everything can be done by utilizing palettes. In fact, I have 5 scenes right now (plus two playbacks for pan/tilt shapes) for the wedding I'm working. I really can't recommend Avo enough for busking shows. On the other hand, though, it certainly does not excel at theatre-type gigs where you need a list of cues to step through. There is a "theatre stack" mode which I spent all of 5 minutes playing with one day. Good luck with what you decide.


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## techieman33 (Aug 18, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> I love using Avo consoles. I'm sitting behind my Tiger right now. It's so nice to have buttons and faders, things to grab when stuff is happening. I can't imagine running a show on some of the major controllers after I've been using Avo for several years. Where are all the handles!? Guitarist plays a solo and I reach up to push the corresponding fader. Simple as that. Anything else just doesn't make sense to me. I'll often run a moving light show with only 6-8 playbacks. Everything can be done by utilizing palettes. In fact, I have 5 scenes right now (plus two playbacks for pan/tilt shapes) for the wedding I'm working. I really can't recommend Avo enough for busking shows. On the other hand, though, it certainly does not excel at theatre-type gigs where you need a list of cues to step through. There is a "theatre stack" mode which I spent all of 5 minutes playing with one day. Good luck with what you decide.



The "theatre stack" works fine. I run a nutracker with it every year. And I've had a couple of tours come in that required me to program that way. It's doesn't have all of the features of a theater desk but it'll get the job done.


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## Judge (Aug 18, 2013)

The new generation of boards that run Titan 6 handle cue stacks really well. Maybe not as well as an EOS or MA2, but good enough to run a complex cue lists that involves split times, move-in-dark, autoloading of other cues and chases. They have come on a long way.


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## Pie4Weebl (Aug 18, 2013)

Just came in to say: +1 for the Avo Pearl, something running titan.


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## HTSL (Feb 16, 2015)

bishopthomas said:


> I love using Avo consoles. I'm sitting behind my Tiger right now. It's so nice to have buttons and faders, things to grab when stuff is happening. I can't imagine running a show on some of the major controllers after I've been using Avo for several years. Where are all the handles!? Guitarist plays a solo and I reach up to push the corresponding fader. Simple as that. Anything else just doesn't make sense to me. I'll often run a moving light show with only 6-8 playbacks. Everything can be done by utilizing palettes. In fact, I have 5 scenes right now (plus two playbacks for pan/tilt shapes) for the wedding I'm working. I really can't recommend Avo enough for busking shows. On the other hand, though, it certainly does not excel at theatre-type gigs where you need a list of cues to step through. There is a "theatre stack" mode which I spent all of 5 minutes playing with one day. Good luck with what you decide.



New to CB, I like what you said about avo. consoles and wanted to ask if you know anything about the new Avo (Quartz). Im a rookie lighting tech, still making my way up. I work with a small company that works with 4-10 moving heads, 10-30 led par cans, source fours, and other conventional lighting. Im working with a pc software (Das light Virtual Controller) and the company wants to get a physical console. Price range is 6k-12k. I need to be able to do a lot of busking and on fly moves. Thank you for your time.


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## JCarroll (Feb 16, 2015)

The Quartz is an excellent console, and it fits right in your budget. In my opinion its just as powerful as an expert titan, with just a lot less physical "Buttons". It should even give you a little room to expand. I think Victor in the post above yours owns and uses one on tour.


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## HTSL (Feb 16, 2015)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Just came in to say: +1 for the Avo Pearl, something running titan.



Hi Victor, I've been notified that you have worked with the all new Quartz. Can you give me a bit of a review and if it will suit my needs. Any Pros and Cons. And what are the major differences with the Quartz and the tiger touch 2. 

and if you possibly have any other recommendations on consoles that will suit my needs. Thanks

Thanks Victor, Josh


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## Pie4Weebl (Feb 16, 2015)

Yeah, bumping around the country with one of them now. I'm quite happy with it! I actually brought mine into a room with a Tiger Touch 2 a week or so ago, and am actually kinda pleased with the way I went. The Tiger Touch 2 is physically larger, but I don't feel you get a whole lot more for all that extra real estate it takes up. The TT2 does have a larger screen and those 10 submasters. I've considered purchasing a wing for the extra playbacks, but at least with my current show, I don't have the need yet. 

I think it would fit your needs well, and be in your price point. Consider getting the wing with it.


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## de27192 (Feb 16, 2015)

techieman33 said:


> Something in the Avolites pearl line would be my first choice.



Pearl line? First choice? Really? Where have you been the last 5 years?!!


StNic54 said:


> Whatever console you choose to run with, make sure it is an up-to-date model. I know the grandMA 2 programming wing is around $8k, and it would cover your needs. I'm not a fan of the Zero88 gear, and I would definitely not get a used Frog. Any console that still requires a 3.5" floppy will be a tough one to keep updated on fixture profiles. Otherwise, the Jands Vista is very price friendly, ETC is continuing their lines with much success, and the list goes on. If you can afford to buy a touch-screen monitor, then any of the PC consoles would be fine for what you are doing.



I agree about going with up-to-date. To people suggesting a Pearl 2004 / 2008... I mean they're still working consoles for sure but I think buying something which is 7 years out of date when you buy it is pushing the boundaries of what is sensible. I don't think the MA2 Command Wing is a viable option really... for 'busking' you really need more than 5 faders and 5 exec buttons, particularly as the lack of motorised faders prevents proper use of the Page Up / Page Down functions. But indeed the fader wing makes it hard to program. One thing of course you _can _consider with the MA2 Command Wing, is that it takes a DMX Input which can be used to trigger things. So the OP could use his existing consoles, in a simpler manner, to help trigger sequence, effects and perhaps individual dimmers etc from the MA2 system whilst benefitting the programming capability of the MA2 system. The good news is also that your $8k figure is way off... it shouldn't be much more than $5k so basically in the OP's budget.


cbrandt said:


> The pearls are great desks. Personally, I prefer the Titan software to the classic, but we still have plenty of people around us that run classic. You'd need a Pearl Expert or newer to be able to run Titan.
> 
> 
> If that Pearl 2004 is in good condition, I'd think seriously about it. You should be able to get another 4 or 5 years out of it without worrying.



As I said above, I don't believe that this is a good investment when there are plenty of far more advanced moving light controllers on the market now for good money. How about a Titan Mobile? If you ask me, far more capable than a Pearl 2008, same layout, better price. Well priced wings also available from Martin, Chamsys, MA... even I think there is a Hog one now?

If it must be a desk and not a wing... well you have to consider the Chamsys MQ40/MQ60/MQ70. Nobody else has mentioned them yet - perhaps they're not too big in the USA? But they're really popular in the UK and I think you could quite possibly get an MQ40 console to fit into the budget of $5k...


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## JohnD (Feb 16, 2015)

@Pie4Weebl or others using Titan, have you had a chance to use the Titan Remote App, if so, how is it?


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## HTSL (Feb 19, 2015)

So Ive contacted a few lighting techs in the area, they do what I do (church stuff and sometimes small tour). He says avo has bad tech support. Is that right avo users? He uses an m6 Martin now, and recommending a m1 martin for me! What do you guys think ??


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## soundlight (Feb 19, 2015)

Personally, I find the M1 to be an excellent desk, and Martin to have pretty good tech support. The thing is though, I haven't had to deal with console support from Martin since Harman has owned them, so I can't say anything for that. However, as far as the M1 goes, it's a fantastic console (my first choice if an MA is not available) and very flexible for concert busking.


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## de27192 (Feb 19, 2015)

HTSL said:


> So Ive contacted a few lighting techs in the area, they do what I do (church stuff and sometimes small tour). *He says avo has bad tech support.* Is that right avo users? He uses an m6 Martin now, and recommending a m1 martin for me! What do you guys think ??



I have no particular allegiance to Avolites but I can reliably inform you that what your friend says is an absolute crock of horse dung and there is no truth to it whatsoever.

People always want a reason to slag somebody off, and "bad tech support" is one of those ones that people can use without really having to quantify their statement.

Avolites have 2 full time console trainers and several more on the books, who can do training and also provide tech support over the phone if you're on a gig etc. They have people who take the duty phone home at night and over the weekend so that you can get expert technical support 24/7. They offer free training on all their products, and they do youtube videos and webinars on them too. I have had to use tech support from many companies and Avo are certainly one of the better ones.

The funny thing is there are plenty of things you could knock Avo down for... so it's very odd of your friend to knock them for something they're actually good at!



--- I still think you should look more into Chamsys... IMO the best value busking desks on the market at the moment.


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## HTSL (Feb 19, 2015)

Yeah that's why I didn't want to use of source! Thanks! I don't see a lot of ppl using Martin consoles, more grand ma, hogs and Avos. What do you guys think of grandma2 pc with pc wing (reason for this is ill get a little more familiar with grand ma), is that a bad rout to go for busking? I thought about this maybe later on when gear quantity/quality grows for the company I will move over to the big guy (grand ma 2 desk) like most tour/house of worship ppl do? What do you guys think!


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## HTSL (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm going with the Avolites Quartz (+ fader wing). Thanks you all for the help!


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## de27192 (Feb 20, 2015)

Out of interest how does the price of a Quartz + Fader Wing compare to the cost of a Tiger Touch?


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## JohnD (Feb 20, 2015)

Just going by online prices, not a bad price.
http://prolightingsupply.com/avquco.html
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Avolite-Tit...784?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27dd6a8f50
versus
http://prolightingsupply.com/titoiilico.html


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## de27192 (Feb 20, 2015)

If the $4000 were available though I'd definitely be inclined to take the TT.

PS I know you're just using online prices as a guide, but obviously to the OP - make sure you get your prices through the proper dealer, the chances of a discount are much better.


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## HTSL (Feb 20, 2015)

de27192 said:


> If the $4000 were available though I'd definitely be inclined to take the TT.
> 
> PS I know you're just using online prices as a guide, but obviously to the OP - make sure you get your prices through the proper dealer, the chances of a discount are much better.



Yeah that's true! I was thinking about it but ill probably get a tt2 later and run Quartz as a backup console, or see if I like avolites.


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## Pie4Weebl (Feb 22, 2015)

That 8K price from Blue Planet lighting is really good! When I bought mine, I didn't find a price that low! Quartz+Wing > TT2, even if they cost the same.


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