# Wanting to put in a pit elevator.



## gafflover87 (Apr 9, 2012)

Our pit is mostly unused because of its bulky and heavy pit cover so Im looking at getting a pit elevator installed. A pit elevator was supposed to be installed when the space was built, but was cut at the last minute. So everything is excavated below the pit floor already and the J-Boxes are installed.

1. How easy would it be for an elevator to be installed, and is it best to go ahead and contact a consultant / architect?

2. Im looking at different lifts, have you worked with Serapid or some of the other technologies? If so, do you have a preference?

3. Im wanting to add trapdoors and personnel /scenery lifts into the new pit floor for use at stage trim. From what I can tell we have the clearance underneath the pit trim height to house eveything. Have any of you seen such a setup or is it a big no no? If it is possible, I'm worried that it will be ridiculously expensive. Its not a huge pit, 50' x 10' at the peak of the arch. What kind of money could we be looking at?

4. Any other questions, thoughts, concerns?

Thanks for your help guys.


----------



## venuetech (Apr 9, 2012)

If it was cut at the last minute, it is very likely all the necessary drawings and bid documents may exist. so it may be a matter of reviewing those and bringing them up to date. how long ago was the theatre built? 
in my mind the thing to do would be to contact a consultant and discuss the matter.
It will be a major project so it will take major bucks and a large chunk of down time.


----------



## gafflover87 (Apr 9, 2012)

We are approaching the 25 year mark, so its has been a decent amount of time. And I am sure that things will need to be adjusted to get it up to code, more specifically the electrical. And thats a good idea on looking for the plans, Ill see what I can come up with.

Thanks.


----------



## marmer (Apr 9, 2012)

We have a pit about that size. You're looking at six figures, minimum, probably more than $500,000 to start from scratch. The choices will be mechanical scissor-lift on rails or hydraulic. The hydraulic is smoother and faster and quite a bit more expensive. If you are putting performer access under the moving stage area you will be adding quite a bit to cost because of enhanced safety features. Our pit has "edgeswitch" rubber bumpers around the edges which are supposed to compress and stop the lift if they meet an obstruction. Good idea in theory, in practice they are installed in series and there are lots and lots of connections between individual sections which can lead to frustrating intermittent stops.


----------



## Footer (Apr 9, 2012)

Take a look at Link Lifts. I have seen one installation of them and they are pretty cool. You also don't have the drilling associated with spiral or hydralic lifts. 

All in all, its not going to be cheap. Half a million is a bit extreme in my book, but over 200k is not. 

Your best bet might to be to invest in a more modern pit filler. Wenger | STRATA® Orchestra Pit Filler


----------



## marmer (Apr 9, 2012)

Footer said:


> Half a million is a bit extreme in my book, but over 200k is not.
> 
> Your best bet might to be to invest in a more modern pit filler. Wenger | STRATA® Orchestra Pit Filler



You may be right, it might not make it to $500,000. IIRC we had our motors and controls re-done about 10 years ago and that was just over 200K, with no performer access under the stage and using existing rails and scissors.


----------



## Footer (Apr 9, 2012)

marmer said:


> You may be right, it might not make it to $500,000. IIRC we had our motors and controls re-done about 10 years ago and that was just over 200K, with no performer access under the stage and using existing rails and scissors.



Yup. It is not cheap. I have two elevators in my larger room, both with motorized seating carts. The day those things die... well, its not going to be pretty. Right now they are not in great shape. Considering we just got done with a 4 million dollar elevator renovation and are gearing up for a 2 million dollar freight elevator renovation, I have a feeling I will be sitting in your situation in a few years. 

To the OP: 
It really just depends how many tricks you want it to do. The Link-lifts are designed to go into situations like this. Until you get drawings there is no way to really know. Odds are more power will need to be brought it and the foundation of the pit will have to be re-done. This is something rather easy to do in new construction. Its not something easy to do in a retrofit. 

How often do you "flip the pit"? How much labor does it take to do and at what cost? Has the venue ever lost business because the pit could not be flipped for a client?


----------



## MPowers (Apr 9, 2012)

My advice is Serapid SERAPID Push chain, stage orchestra lift, Quick Die Change or Gala. theatre stage company concert podiums mobile theatrical platforms risers

Neither requires a hole, only a flat concrete pad. However they do use up a couple of feet from the bottom of an existing pad to the lowest position of the lift surface. Personally I feel that those two methods are smoother and more consistent in speed control than a scissors lift. 

In your area, contact Texas Scenic, (tell'em I sent you) and have them begin the process of helping to find what you need and what you can afford.

Hope this helps.


----------



## techieman33 (Apr 9, 2012)

Ours is hydraulic, while probably not an option here I thought some might find the picture interesting. It's 50' wide x 10' deep and travels 22' from stage level to the basement, and has a capacity of 39k lbs.


----------



## gafflover87 (Apr 10, 2012)

Footer said:


> How often do you "flip the pit"? How much labor does it take to do and at what cost? Has the venue ever lost business because the pit could not be flipped for a client?



Footer, basically we would use it when needed, about once a semester while doing musicals. We dont loose business, because its an educational space, however in the past they have strayed away from running live sound for musicals because of the heavy pit floor. The old technical director was there for 7-8 years and removed it twice. Each time it took him, a stage hand, and 5-6 building maintenance guys several hours to remove the cover. 

That being said, a pit elevator is not a must have, but a nice to have. And from what I understand, the money is potentially available, I just have to put in the proposal and such. But if its going to be $200k or more, they may be a little apprehensive, considering they dropped over 300k on a sound overhaul last year.

MPowers: I am familiar with Texas Scenic, haha in fact I was on the phone with them today (non-related). At this point Im really just letting my imagination run wild with ideas, from there I will work with them to see what is reasonable.


----------

