# PowerCON?



## MisterTim (Feb 27, 2013)

Hey guys,

So the recent trend for a lot of devices is to go to PowerCon for power. While the powercon connector is pretty nice and convenient, especially with passthroughs, it presents itself with significant electrical code problems. 

It's UL recognized for:

Max Cable OD: 0.59"
Cable gauge: 14

Now, that presents a significant problem for those of us who are required by the NEC to use 12/3 SOOW for everything over 3' long. SOOW doesn't come smaller than 0.6" (I've found one that's 0.595", but haven't tried it yet). 

I've talked to several electricians in the industry, all of whom have told me to stay away from powercon as much as possible, and use SJ for short adapter cables as needed. This is our current solution, but with how popular powercon is coming, there's been a lot of pressure to have lots of longer powercon cables for jumpering. 

How do we approach this issue? Where is the compromise made?

edit: for clarity, I'm talking about the powerCON 20A connector. Interestingly, powerCON TRUE1 is rated for 12mm OD, but 12AWG wire size, but both are rated for 2.5mm^2 internal wire area. And other places in the product guide specify 12AWG as 1.5mm^2, which is REALLY wrong--12AWG is about 3.3mm^2. Ugh...


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## Footer (Feb 27, 2013)

Steve Terry is working on this exact issue if I remember correctly. The S4 LED units I got on loan last month did have edison to powercon adapters with SO cable, so, it is possible. Maybe the guys at ETC could give us some pointers on this very real issue?


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## MisterTim (Feb 27, 2013)

Footer said:


> The S4 LED units I got on loan last month did have edison to powercon adapters with SO cable, so, it is possible.



Well, as we all know, "possible" doesn't mean "good."  I'm sure I can jam SO into the connector, and if that's the best solution available for now, I will, but I'm glad that at least someone else recognizes it as an issue. Googling this has gotten me nowhere.

I'll send my ETC contact an email and see if she knows anything.


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## sk8rsdad (Feb 27, 2013)

I think the current workaround is to treat the fixture and cord as a system and get the whole thing certified that way, with some maximum number of daisy-chained units and other limitations.


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## derekleffew (Feb 27, 2013)

Footer said:


> Steve Terry is working on this exact issue if I remember correctly. ...


Took some searching but I found the reference:

derekleffew said:


> Mike, see the document referenced at http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/29037-nec-changes-2014-public-review.html, in particular the section 15-117 Log #1396 NEC-P15 (520.68)




> Submitter:
> Steven R. Terry, Electronic Theatre Controls Inc. / Rep. US
> Institute for Theatre Technology - Engineering Commission
> Recommendation:
> ...




derekleffew said:


> ... And while we're on the subject of adapters, I'm seeing more and more LED fixtures equipped with panel-mount PowerCon ins and outs (I think ETC makes some). Is the male 5-15 to female PowerCon power cord an adapter, and therefore limited to 1m? Are the fixture interconnects (even if they have non-mating ends?) considered cables and thus must be extra-hard usage cord regardless of length and load?


On a (somewhat) related note, I notice on the newest Vari-Lite units (VL3515 to be exact), they have added PowerCon and removed the power switch. We all know the PowerCon is not to be used as a breaking connector, so now I have to ONLY unplug the other end of the adapter? How did this become UL Listed? It's not like a minimal draw LED unit.
.


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 27, 2013)

1. The NEC has changed for 2014 to allow SJ cord on luminaire cords, with certain caveats, which have been outlined in other posts to this thread.
2. PowerCon and PowerCon True1 are *UL Recognized *only as appliance connectors--they must be *inside* another listed piece of equipment.

Based on the above, I think we still need adapters to "regular", NEMA or UL498 connectors such as Twist-locks or the E1.24 pin connector.

ST


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## MisterTim (Feb 27, 2013)

STEVETERRY said:


> 2. PowerCon and PowerCon True1 are *UL Recognized *only as appliance connectors--they must be *inside* another listed piece of equipment.
> 
> Based on the above, I think we still need adapters to "regular", NEMA or UL498 connectors such as Twist-locks or the E1.24 pin connector.
> 
> ST



What do you mean, inside another listed piece of equipment? i.e. a powercon <-> powercon cable isn't okay?


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## DuckJordan (Feb 27, 2013)

meaning you can't have a pig tail or whip with a female powercon connector outside of the body of the fixture. Powercon <-> powercon for use of daisy chaining would be allowed because they would terminate in another "listed" Piece of equipment.


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh, i understand. Is a powercon barrel 

[


Neutrik NAC3MM-1]
listed, by NRTL ...? We just bought some of those (without my prior knowledge...)
.


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## avkid (Feb 28, 2013)

The box is the "device".


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

okay. stepping back from the powercon specifics for a minute...

how much do we care about UL? iirc everything has to be used in compliance with ul specs, but, i mean, take the cable-mount quadboxes that we all use. even the safest alternatives, like o.a. windsor boxes (which I use and love, thanks Ken), aren't ul listed. When do we just quit caring and do things as safely as possible in ways that we know will work and be good that just aren't quite to spec? Will powercon ever be usable completely within spec? Only using 1m cables is not a usable solution.


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## ship (Feb 28, 2013)

Powercon True 1 jumpers I am with new fixtures currently making, watch out for that locking ring part in removing if you want to be able to access the wiring later, or recognize that once assembled you won't easily be able to take it apart.

Lots of PowerCon jumpers made in the past, always 12ga and three foot or less. Always hated that plug. Normally when a feed thru fixture comes with a whip of less than 12ga. no matter the above brand I throw it out. Also on Powercon, they are not often very user-friendly for re-use of the plug. 

"Only using 1m cables is not a usable solution." Adapt from fixture to rated normal cables for longer than that and there is rules established about SJ verses SO. Not sure what is a windsor box but I know any Quad box I see even if coming back from a show and even clearly marked for another owner, get taken apart and never again used or returned to their owner. At times I might use a "Bell Box" for something with indicator light, or even a welded up knockout or plated over NEMA 1 box for something that is seriously modified to be safe, but "we all' don't use quad boxes. A question comes up in doing good proper work in having the spirit and understanding of the code but using a quad box in an other than perminant mounted situation. If at least an aluminum Bell box - outdoor box for something that has to be portable and that size at least will ensure a knockout cannot be punched in and conduct box to conductor. Indicator lights and maximum cord length I would think is also something to consider. I know once in the old shop I ran a 50' portable power to the gel cutting area in a bell box and the inspector didn't have a problem with it given the box had a three foot whip to a means of disconnect, he did however require an indicator light on the outlet box.

PowerCon or PowerCon True 1, I don't like them, like the True 1 a little more in it not being Pozi-Drive, but not really my choice in adapting to what I'm given. On the other hand, I see as much problems with normal plugs even coming from factories - terminals too loose and cord grips too tight in having to cut and re-mount the plug. Want to set standards, open up every plug you get and physically ensure that it's correct in wiring and tension. Don't trust in plugs what is installed on the fixture whip.


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## avkid (Feb 28, 2013)

Windsor is referencing O.A. Windsor Co.
O.A. Windsor


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

ship said:


> Not sure what is a windsor box



They're what I converted all our metal quadboxes into, with advice from quite a few people on this site who use them. O.A. Windsor

I appreciate your input. I should note that when I said that only having 1m cables isn't a usable solution, I meant to use powercon as distribution, as opposed to its original intent as an IEC replacement. I'm fine with using powercon for just its intended purpose, but it seems as though an increasingly large portion of the market is not.


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## JCarroll (Feb 28, 2013)

Now let me open another can of worms...
We have Mac 101s. They are auto ranging 120-208 with Powercon in and out.
We use both regular edison -> powercon and L6-20 -> powercon.
Is this not a dangerous situation where you could have either 120 or 208 on a powercon connector?


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## derekleffew (Feb 28, 2013)

MisterTim said:


> ... Is a powercon barrel ... listed, by NRTL ...?


No. It's not UL Listed, but is UL Recognized. 
Kinda make you want to just scream, don't it?

Before tearing out all your hair (and don't tell anyone I said this, but) go ahead and use 12/3 SJO with NAC3FCA and NAC3FCB ends for your LED fixture interconnect daisy chain power cables, as long as you want. I won't tell on you. The code will catch up to "standard industry practice" someday (provided we keep representatives from our industry on the panels). Pretty sure an AHJ could find many other issues more serious than this in your facility.
EDIT: Looky here. Lex Products, a normally quite reputable company, sells PowerCON extensions made from 12/3 SJE cable! Oh, the horror!

Which segways to...

MisterTim said:


> ... When do we just quit caring and do things as safely as possible in ways that we know will work and be good that just aren't quite to spec? ...


We NEVER stop caring. "ALL electrical work and equipment must meet or exceed the most stringent requirements of all local, state, and federal building and life-safety codes." We ALWAYS do EVERYTHING to the exact letter of the code. EVERY inspector is a hard-butt bastard amber, just looking for any little reason to red-tag and shut down your venue. (But can easily overlook blocked exits, lack of fire extinguishers, or use of SJO when only SO is permitted, should one or several C-notes accidentally find their way into his palm.) /facetious hyperbole

-----

JCarroll said:


> ... They are auto ranging 120-208 with Powercon in and out.
> We use both regular edison -> powercon and L6-20 -> powercon.
> Is this not a dangerous situation where you could have either 120 or 208 on a powercon connector?


Apparently Underwriters Laboratories doesn't think so, as it's listed under UL 1573. BTW, they're auto-ranging 100-240V.

I don't feel it's an issue because the connector is so specialized, and if a user is stupid enough to plug a non-auto-ranging luminaire into an unknown power source, he deserves what he gets. Notice how almost every device using IEC 60320 (C14) is also auto-ranging? Same issue.
.


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

JCarroll said:


> Now let me open another can of worms...
> We have Mac 101s. They are auto ranging 120-208 with Powercon in and out.
> We use both regular edison -> powercon and L6-20 -> powercon.
> Is this not a dangerous situation where you could have either 120 or 208 on a powercon connector?



You're using one connector at two different voltages. If you have that connector at two different voltages at different places in the same show, you're violating code. But if you have powercon at either 120V or 208V across the board at any time, you're fine.



derekleffew said:


> No. It's not UL Listed, but is UL Recognized.
> Kinda make you want to just scream, don't it?


. Yup. 


> Before tearing out all your hair (and don't tell anyone I said this, but) go ahead and use 12/3 SJO with NAC3FCA and NAC3FCB ends for your LED fixture interconnect daisy chain power cables, as long as you want. I won't tell on you. The code will catch up to "standard industry practice" someday (provided we keep representatives from our industry on the panels). Pretty sure an AHJ could find many other issues more serious than this in your facility.
> 
> We NEVER stop caring. "ALL electrical work and equipment must meet or exceed the most stringent requirements of all local, state, and federal building and life-safety codes." We ALWAYS do EVERYTHING to the exact letter of the code. EVERY inspector is a hard-butt bastard amber, just looking for any little reason to red-tag and shut down your venue. (But can easily overlook blocked exits, lack of fire extinguishers, or use of SJO when only SO is permitted, should one or several C-notes accidentally find their way into his palm.) /facetious hyperbole
> 
> .



Okay, well that's generally what I've been doing. If anybody asks (especially those dangerous ones with just a little bit of knowledge), my answer is exactly as you said, that we follow everything exactly to or exceeding code. But as you also said, sometimes code just doesn't work. I just didn't know what standard industry practice is...


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## JCarroll (Feb 28, 2013)

The only thing that made me ask was due to the pass through. Most any other powercon devices at 208 typically only have an input. Does anyone else violate this code and do you mark the connector with tape or some other way when doing so?


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## derekleffew (Feb 28, 2013)

I've never seen anyone label or mark a PowerCON to indicate voltage. But I've also never seen anyone daisy chain across fixture types--it's always MAC101s with 101s, Auras with Auras, video panel with video panel, and so on.

On the other hand, Socapex connectors are often used at two different voltages (and usually dimmed and constant as well), and most stage electricians are fastidious about labeling those.
.


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 28, 2013)

MisterTim said:


> What do you mean, inside another listed piece of equipment? i.e. a powercon <-> powercon cable isn't okay?



"Inside" means "tested by UL as part of the listing of another product". UL Recognized connectors do not meet all the requirements of general purpose listed connectors--so they must be evaluated in each application for suitability.

Powercon to powercon cable is OK, provided they both mate with a powercon that's part of a listed piece of equipment.

What needs to be done is to include the Powercon in UL 498 as an entertainment industry standard connector. Of course, this would mean including configuration drawings so that other manufacturers besides Neutrik could build them. Also, they would have to be able to pass all the tests of UL498, which is not a given, by any means.

So, for now, they are still UL Recognized appliance connectors.

ST


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 28, 2013)

MisterTim said:


> Oh, i understand. Is a powercon barrel
> 
> [
> 
> ...



This is not a listed device. It is not in the UL Certification Directory. Its VDE qualification is meaningless in North America.

From its brochure:

_Attention: The powerCON is a connector without breaking capacity, i.e. the powerCON should not be connected or disconnected under load or live! _

ST


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

So, a summary:

1. Powercon is only okay inside a fixture. Powercon barrels are not okay. 
2. Powercon power to fixtures should be in 1m/3ft lengths, adapted to other (better connectors) or jumpered between powercon fixtures, using 12/3 SJ/SJT
3. When necessary, powercon to powercon cables can be made for longer lengths with SO without breaking code (? not sure about this, but it seems like that's what you're saying)


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 28, 2013)

MisterTim said:


> So, a summary:
> 
> 1. Powercon is only okay inside a fixture. Powercon barrels are not okay.



Powercon barrels are not listed, but if they are OK with the AHJ, they are OK.



> 2. Powercon power to fixtures should be in 1m/3ft lengths, adapted to other (better connectors) or jumpered between powercon fixtures, using 12/3 SJ/SJT



Almost. Powercon cords to fixtures can be any length, as long as they are extra hard usage (Type SO). If it's after September 2013 (the effective date of the 2014 NEC), and they are hard usage (Type SJ), then they cannot be more than 1m. Powercon cords that don't attach to the fixture on one end or are longer than 1m must be made of extra hard usage cable


> 3. When necessary, powercon to powercon cables can be made for longer lengths with SO without breaking code (? not sure about this, but it seems like that's what you're saying)



Hmm, maybe. A powercon to powercon Type SO jumper that does not connect directly to the fixture on one end is likely a misuse of the connector. Would the AHJ object? Maybe, maybe not.


This excellent discussion proves to me that we need to work on proposals that further rationalize these issues in the 2017 NEC.

ST


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## derekleffew (Feb 28, 2013)

STEVETERRY said:


> ... Powercon cords that don't attach to the fixture on one end *or* are longer than 1m must be made of extra hard usage cable ...


But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)

Isn't this the same rationale as was used to allow the use of "listed, hard usage (junior hard service)" (SJ) cords in break-outs? 2011 NEC 520.68(A)(4).
Work on that, please, Mr. Terry. 

(And use *bold* rather than underline for emphasis on the Internets. It's not 1980 anymore and a computer is not a typewriter. Underline indicates a hyperlink. (Most of the time.)  )


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)



It doesn't fit by official specs on paper, that's all I know. But of course, the official spec on paper also says 14AWG, but that doesn't seem to hold any weight as we all jam 12AWG into it, so I doubt that a 0.05" difference in cable diameter is going to be a huge deal, since rubber is squishy and I'm sure the connector will technically fit over the wire.


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 28, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> But doesn't this bring us right back to post#1 where 12/3 extra hard usage (SO) cable won't fit inside the cord grip of a 20A PowerCON? (So says MisterTim; I've never tried it. Every PowerCON extension I've ever used has been SJxx.)
> 
> Isn't this the same rationale as was used to allow the use of "listed, hard usage (junior hard service)" (SJ) cords in break-outs? 2011 NEC 520.68(A)(4).
> Work on that, please, Mr. Terry.
> ...



It is clear that Powercon will accept some gauges of Type SO cable.

And, stay away from my editorial font decisions, bud! 


ST


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## ship (Feb 28, 2013)

Assuming: the PowerCon connector is fairly obsolete at this point given the “True 1" version that has male/female and disconnect advantages advertised, isn’t this mostly a moot point in some way for jumper length overall in more concentrating on the new plug type we are going to be seeing to replace what was a bad idea that was jumped on the ship for?

Assuming: a 1 Meter jumper length, can a 14ga SJT type cable as often sold carry a 20A load as might be seen in jumping between many fixtures or in carrying the load of all fixtures in jumping between end fixture and power supply plug type? Can at 14ga but only 1 Meter SJT, it handle the load? I don’t think so but possible to safely do it?

Known: a 12/3 Soow cable won’t fit into a Powercon or True 1 connector short of modifying the plug which would be against code and bad practice anyway. Assuming a 1 meter length for SJ type cable, longer lengths unless if I understand it correctly properly supported by truss etc would work - just not for the drop or along the floor. For something else, you would need to adapt from Powercon of one or the other version, to something more normal based on the system and supply voltage.

Interested in that I just had a show specify some 10' and 15' PowerCon True 1 jumpers between fixtures. We are using 12/3 SJOOW cable and it will be truss supported in if I understand correctly, is code compliant. I am personally ok with doing so given the power in whips are 1Meter of 12/3 and it’s breakered for 20A/250V overall. My guys assembling the plugs have noted that once in a while the head of the slotted screw sheers off or screws go missing in me needing to stock that screw type for the Powercon True 1, but they get good tension on the wire on the True 1 much preferred over Powercon or CeeForm to work with. 

Just got some special adaptor in from Martin today for some new light or application with Cee Form we were to convert to American type twist lock, and one that was abysmal in... really you assembled that CeeForm plug with all these stray strands of wire hanging outside the terminal? This was really bad especially if coming from a factory in strands of wire frayed out everywhere - Direct from Martin even. (I mention, open up and look at and or tension everything you get from a factory? Or don’t trust anyone’s wiring that you didn’t train.) 

Powercon plugs almost a dead subject for me in that I don’t think I have ever done longer than three feet with them and always 12/3 SJ type cable. The True 1 type plug on the other hand in being requested for longer lengths for me up for discussion.

And some new blow up Eco Dome type thing from Elation I am getting news of this week we bought like 32 of which will need to be converted from CeeForm and hopefully not re-wire for a larger wire gauge, and also have to adapt to panel mount to 5-pin the data. At least no as bad as other gear in the past gotten in to modify. No, not busy at all in lots of time.


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## MisterTim (Feb 28, 2013)

> Assuming: the PowerCon connector is fairly obsolete at this point given the “True 1" version that has male/female and disconnect advantages advertised, isn’t this mostly a moot point in some way for jumper length overall in more concentrating on the new plug type we are going to be seeing to replace what was a bad idea that was jumped on the ship for?



I don't know about that--the True1 has a max cable diameter of 0.47", smaller than normal powercon, so it's DEFINITELY not going to fit SO. I've also never seen it in the wild, while powercon has gotten very popular, and isn't going to disappear from the fixtures we now own any time soon. I don't see how True1 makes longer cable lengths possible. 


ship said:


> Can at 14ga but only 1 Meter SJT, it handle the [20A] load? I don’t think so but possible to safely do it?



15 or 18A max. - NEC 400.5 Not okay.


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## MNicolai (Feb 28, 2013)

I wouldn't call it quits on the the powerCon yet as I have yet to see a True1 connector anywhere in the wild. The appeal of the True1 connector was that it would be rated for IP65 and has a breaking capacity.

I wouldn't mind if for a short while we debated the use-case for 12/3 SO-type cable. The applications which I routinely see powerCon connectors on are for lighting instruments and sound equipment. With pass-through options on some equipment, it's possible to put a full 20A load on a powerCon connector, but I can think of no devices where they natively pull more than the 18A rating of 14/3 SO.

It's been my impression in the way that the connector is listed, specified, and used, that PowerCon is intended as a better solution than IEC connectors on cables between power distribution and devices. It was not intended as a connector used in power distribution cabling other than when used with pass-throughs. That is a non-issue because I don't know anyone with pass-through cables in their inventory for lighting. I have some powered loudspeaker arrays with pass-throughs I use, but no cable for that would need be longer than a couple feet.

Forgive my naivete, but I don't see reasonable applications where more than 18A need be run through a powerCon connector. Nobody has been complaining about IEC C13 connectors not supporting 20A, which effectively has been the connector replaced by powerCon.

For that matter, the primary application I've seen where a longer than 1m powerCon cable is practical is when flying loudspeakers and you don't want to have an extra connection (which is an extra potential point of failure) 30' in the air that could become disconnected. Aside from that, I'd rather my power extension inventory be in more universally-functional connectors than in powerCon.

It begs the question, where are people using powerCon connectors that absolutely require SO-type instead of SJ-type, and 12/3 instead of 14/3?

Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?


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## Les (Mar 1, 2013)

... They should totally have an electrics convention and call it Power-Con.

/facepalm


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## SteveB (Mar 1, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?



I had an event last month that used a boatload of Martin MAC Aura's. All with PowerCon pass thru.

The tour elec. hung about 14 on 2 overhead pipes at 5ft spacing, and used 6ft PowerCon cables as power, pass-thru on fixtures 2 thru 7, with Fix 1 having a PowerCon to L6-20 ft. adapter, to a 6 circ. multi feeding at 208v. 

I know this elec. well, he's awful and I'm certain he sets up this rig with all 14 Aura's on a truss (US/DS) feeding thru the entire Aura set.

So 14 fixtures @ 1.2a ea. (208v rating) = about 17 amp draw.

All the cabling is (from what I can tell) 12/3 SJO, so he's in theory OK, but I know he can't add 2+2 and does no calculating of the loads and only knows he's got a problem when a breaker trips and then can't figure out why.

PowerCon in this instance, while making his life easy, makes it too easy as he just daisy's along, like it's DMX.


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## sk8rsdad (Mar 1, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> Also, where are people using powerCon connectors on cables longer than 1m?



Pretty much everywhere in my rig. Lots of D40s with more than 2' of spacing between them.


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## MNicolai (Mar 1, 2013)

Hmm.

Our facility opted to go a different way with a D60 rig. We don't use pass-throughs at all and use Lex E-Strings along the electrics to provide distributed power for the instruments. We find that much easier than trying to stock various lengths and quantities of pass-through cables that can only be used as pass-through cables and can not be used for other applications.

To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.


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## soundman (Mar 1, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.



I have two good examples of using the pass-through. First was using some Color Force 12s in BAT truss for a tour. Each stick of truss had three or four of the CF 12s hung just below the bottom cord, to save on twofering and break out boxes the first fixture in the chain had an L6-20 to powercon adapter and the rest daisy chained together. I think we used 5' powercon cables as that was the shortest the shop had. 

Second example is from a different tour, we had a custom bracket built to house a Motion Labs load cell hub and a Motion Labs server hub together. We had some 18" powercon jumpers made to jump from the server hub to the loadcell hub saving a twofer or a cube tap. Worked great.


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## SteveB (Mar 1, 2013)

MNicolai said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Our facility opted to go a different way with a D60 rig. We don't use pass-throughs at all and use Lex E-Strings along the electrics to provide distributed power for the instruments. We find that much easier than trying to stock various lengths and quantities of pass-through cables that can only be used as pass-through cables and can not be used for other applications.
> 
> To say the least, I have yet to jump on the ship that pass-through power cables are the smoothest option for lightning instruments except where those instrument are permanently fixed.



Agreed.

I understand the ease of use with LED's that are adjacent, but.....

I hate the PowerCon concept. I hate when the fixture power cables are in a different friggin road case, usually at the bottom of a pile of crap I need last, so now I have to dig out the PowerCon cables.

I hate then you have a 3ft unit-to-unit cable and need to move a unit and now need a longer cable (which you would have to do with a unit that has built in power cord anyway) as well as needing a frigging barrel (which isn't UL listed), which the road electrician has run out of or lost a few on the tour.

We don't need another ****ed type of electrical connector on the stage. We have Edison, 2P&G, L5-20 and L6-20. ENOUGH !.


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 1, 2013)

SteveB said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I understand the ease of use with LED's that are adjacent, but.....
> 
> ...



If the acceptable length for SJOOW is 1 Meter, then I think the best solution is to have cords with Edison (or twist) Plugs or Receptacles on one end and Powercon ins or outs on the other. That way, if you DO want to use the pass through, you already have over 6 feet of cable to work with by just plugging these together. No barrel needed. AND if you desire to go over 6', just use the Edison that you ALREADY have. I agree that PowerCon is best intended as a locking replacement for the IEC connector. Of course, there is also locking IEC now, so I guess it's just whatever makes the manufacturer happy. 

I have worked a lot with a local shop that has done this method with their entire stock of Chauvet LED gear. IEC on one end and NEMA 5-15 on the other. I think it works great. 

For what its worth, most tours that come through have all their cable assemblies custom built, loomed, and often living on the truss. It's just hang, plug & play. 

The last thing we need is another connector type to create huge inventories of.


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## JCarroll (Mar 1, 2013)

Thats what about half of our powercon stock is. M Edison -> Powercon Blue, Powercon White -> FM Edison. If you plug them together you have a 6 foot jumper, or you could have a 30 foot jumper with a 25 foot edison.


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## MNicolai (Mar 1, 2013)

gafftapegreenia said:


> If the acceptable length for SJOOW is 1 Meter, then I think the best solution is to have cords with Edison (or twist) Plugs or Receptacles on one end and Powercon ins or outs on the other. That way, if you DO want to use the pass through, you already have over 6 feet of cable to work with by just plugging these together. No barrel needed. AND if you desire to go over 6', just use the Edison that you ALREADY have.
> 
> I have worked a lot with a local shop that has done this method with their entire stock of Chauvet LED gear. IEC on one end and NEMA 5-15 on the other. I think it works great.



Sounds like an unnecessary increase in the potential points of failure in a system. I don't doubt that it works for you, but to me it sounds more complicated than turning lights on should be.


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## derekleffew (Mar 1, 2013)

SteveB said:


> ... I hate the PowerCon concept. I hate when the fixture power cables ...
> We don't need another ****ed type of electrical connector on the stage. We have Edison, 2P&G, L5-20 and L6-20. ENOUGH !.


While I'm not sure I disagree, I'll debate the "pro" side... 

What about when a shops owns a type of light that can (and does often, run on two different voltages, like discussed here (auto-ranging PSU).)?
If the unit has a permanently-attached whip, one must stock and use adapters, some of which are illegal/dangerous. Or the shop is constantly removing/installing different plugs.
OR
If the unit has a PowerCON input, one stocks two styles of whips: 208V-to-PowerCon and 125V-to-PowerCon. And sends both out with every unit rented (although if using Powercon jumpers, one only needs to worry about the first unit in the chain).

Most manufacturers of LED lights (including ETC, or maybe they are just acquiescing to market demand) see Powercon/power pass through as a feature. Edison or other flanged inlet s/ flanged outlet s take up too much space on the unit. Maybe you'd rather they have two 1m whips for power input and thru? Or as MNicolai suggests, no pass-thru at all and have to use big honkin' ugly 12/3 SOOW two-fer s, cube tap s, and cables, when each unit only draws 3A or less?

Now why Vari-Lite choose to use it on their newest, 208V-only, fixtures; that I don't get.
.


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## Footer (Mar 1, 2013)

No LED's around here (yet), but I have a powercon install that is 11 years old in our PA. All of my Meyer UPM-1P's are powered via powercon. We have looms with XLR webbed to SJ cable with powercon on both ends. We even have powercon plugs in junction boxes alongside our signal outputs for those boxes (illegaly I believe, but it was the way it was installed... and it is a state building so rules are not always followed). I have cables from 2' to 20' for these boxes. Depending on the configuration of the show we can move around the boxes to wherever we need.


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## soundman (Mar 1, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> Now why Vari-Lite choose to use it on their newest, 208V-only, fixtures; that I don't get.



I could helps with sub rentals. If Bandit Lites needs twenty units they can rent the units from PRG and supply their own Cee-Form to powerCon adapters. It saves either shop from having to supply an adapter and is one less connection to fail in the air. It would also make replacing whips easier.


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## ship (Mar 1, 2013)

SteveB said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I understand the ease of use with LED's that are adjacent, but.....
> 
> ...



Also hate this and now having to make jumpers to cord grip to cord grip length in now that everyone designs about spacing about fixtures, suddenly you have to add a couple of inches to each cable length so they will plug into each other. 5' jumper before now one just figured say 4' spacing, now in making the jumpers I have to pre-figure cable bend and even add to it to make a requested length. And of course, those lengths have to be exact lengths without extra slack - gonna be a lot of replacement cables over the coming years given the bend to jump cables done.

Don't get me in the bad guy status on this question, I seriously wish the Powercon and True 1 would just go away in hating both, but as with the more and more CeeForm type connectors I have to do without also liking, I am not attemting to stand in the way of something I cannot stop. It's just a reality of the day I work with and if any help, this is a career not a job in that it helps in dealing with such things but very interested in the discussion.


Working on a new prototype 4th generation of our kabuki drop selenoids this weekend. Great idea as opposed to doing the L5-15 withoutout feed thru was to go go Powercon, but thinking I'll instead go PowerCon True 1. Thoughts?


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## derekleffew (Mar 9, 2013)

More valuable information on the topic at The LightNetwork - Powercon or True 1??? discussion.

> ... Since this seems to be an issue that is of increasing concern to many people and companies in our industry, the subject will be on the meeting agenda of the PLASA Electrical Power Working Group in about 10 days at USITT. I very much hope that someone from Neutrik will be there.
> 
> I will provide a report here of the outcome of the discussion. ...


Don't worry, STEVETERRY will fix it for us.
.


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## derekleffew (Jun 5, 2013)

Posted for a CB member who wishes to remain anonymous.

> Recently at work there was a management debate about sticking with Powercon, using both or going Powercon True1 for the gear.
> 
> Reasons present against changing over or at least staying with two systems:
> 1) Already have a huge amount of Powercon gear and cable using that connector type.
> ...



Thoughts/suggestions/opinions?

N.B.--I recently saw something I found amusing: On the back of a video wall, a bunch of molded Y-style two-fers, with all PowerCON ends!


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## DavidNorth (Jun 5, 2013)

I have quite a few comments but I think it best to hear from others first as I may be too picky.

One small thing.....there is a 12AWG sized crimp for 0.187 terminals. It was hard for us to find.

http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/276/0190190048_QUICK_DISCONNECTS-160690.pdf

More later,

David


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## derekleffew (Jul 29, 2013)

Adding more fuel to the fire...



From Power Distributor with powerCON TRUE1 | Contrik :

> Now also available in our assortment the Connex' power distributor with the new powerCON TRUE1 connectors from Neutrik with 16A.


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