# Another Sweeney Issue



## bobgaggle (Oct 24, 2018)

Interior box set. 3 walls 20' high. 3" PVC pipe, 1 continuous run around all 3 walls, 2' below top of the walls. At some point in the show (I'm guessing the end), the pipe starts bleeding and dripping down the walls. Anyone done an effect like this? Very similar to your standard rain effect, with holes in the top of the pipe, but in our case we would orient the holes on the side closest to the walls so the blood doesn't drip over the on stage side of the pipe. Also there's a lot of reservation about filling most of a 3" pipe with blood, so higher ups want to run some sort of smaller diameter hose inside the pipe and pump the blood through that. I'm thinking soaker hose or irrigation pipe, something like that. Anyone done something like this before?


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## RonHebbard (Oct 24, 2018)

bobgaggle said:


> Interior box set. 3 walls 20' high. 3" PVC pipe, 1 continuous run around all 3 walls, 2' below top of the walls. At some point in the show (I'm guessing the end), the pipe starts bleeding and dripping down the walls. Anyone done an effect like this? Very similar to your standard rain effect, with holes in the top of the pipe, but in our case we would orient the holes on the side closest to the walls so the blood doesn't drip over the on stage side of the pipe. Also there's a lot of reservation about filling most of a 3" pipe with blood, so higher ups want to run some sort of smaller diameter hose inside the pipe and pump the blood through that. I'm thinking soaker hose or irrigation pipe, something like that. Anyone done something like this before?


*@bobgaggle* Whatever smaller pipe you'd use within your 3" PVC, how much liquid would you need to pump, and for how much lead time, before it filled your 3" pipe to the level of the holes and found its way out*??* 
To answer your query: No, I've never done this. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## bobgaggle (Oct 24, 2018)

RonHebbard said:


> *@bobgaggle* Whatever smaller pipe you'd use within your 3" PVC, how much liquid would you need to pump, and for how much lead time, before it filled your 3" pipe to the level of the holes and found its way out*??*



Kind of unclear in the OP, we'd cut a slot the full length of the PVC and the smaller hose would live inside the slot and directly leak onto the wall. So we don't fill the 3" pipe with blood at all...


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## coldnorth57 (Oct 24, 2018)

the idea of walls leaking blood is very cool, but what a mess to clean up for the next show. How about some good paint effects and some moving gobos with the right color gel to make the same effect and not mess. under normal light the blood looks black under another color the blood can be seen


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## RonHebbard (Oct 24, 2018)

bobgaggle said:


> Kind of unclear in the OP, we'd cut a slot the full length of the PVC and the smaller hose would live inside the slot and directly leak onto the wall. So we don't fill the 3" pipe with blood at all...


 *@bobgaggle* Do you have patrons seated in balconies to worry about? If not, and at 18' up a 20' flat, could you not lay your soaker hose in the natural void between your 3" PVC and the immediately adjacent supporting flat and save the labor of slotting the 3" PVC and fishing the soaker hose through the larger tube? Presumably your 20' flats are built in sections around the set. Is your 3" PVC installed after the flats are erected? Either way, soaker hose is fairly light and flexible. I'm thinking it could be laid in place as a continuous length from a scissor lift, zoom-boom or rolling scaffold with garden hose style snap together hose fittings if deemed convenient or necessary. The fittings I've in mind are available self-sealing when disassembled for less mess when handling. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## RonHebbard (Oct 24, 2018)

coldnorth57 said:


> the idea of walls leaking blood is very cool, but what a mess to clean up for the next show. How about some good paint effects and some moving gobos with the right color gel to make the same effect and not mess. under normal light the blood looks black under another color the blood can be seen


*@coldnorth57* and *@bobgaggle* Possibly this is an application for "Wild Fire", UV and a motion wheel or two?? 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## geoffrey hugh (Oct 24, 2018)

bobgaggle said:


> Interior box set. 3 walls 20' high. 3" PVC pipe, 1 continuous run around all 3 walls, 2' below top of the walls. At some point in the show (I'm guessing the end), the pipe starts bleeding and dripping down the walls. Anyone done an effect like this? Very similar to your standard rain effect, with holes in the top of the pipe, but in our case we would orient the holes on the side closest to the walls so the blood doesn't drip over the on stage side of the pipe. Also there's a lot of reservation about filling most of a 3" pipe with blood, so higher ups want to run some sort of smaller diameter hose inside the pipe and pump the blood through that. I'm thinking soaker hose or irrigation pipe, something like that. Anyone done something like this before?




I’ve been involved with an effect such as you describe, 'blood' dripping down a white full stage width drop.

I was the lighting designer and not directly involved.

I have little advice to offer, but I do have a warning.

In our case the effect was built, installed, tried and it wasn’t quite right so it turned into a two day installation. Overnight the liquid leaked and wound up on the stage floor where it remained until next morning. By then, the warping had begun.

The stage floor was a beautiful dark stained hardwood and the warping damaged the upstage 15 feet beyond repair. It needed replacing. The effect was never completed.

As a result of the damage, the technical director was let go.

It could be a terrific effect, if you can control the rate of bleeding, as was intended.

Just be really careful, and try to preempt the various possible outcomes.

Our show was Blood Wedding (Garcia Lorca) at the Banff Centre, long ago.


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## TheaterEd (Oct 24, 2018)

Skylight Music Theater in Milwaukee made their walls bleed for Sweeny last year. Might try calling them up?


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## TimMc (Oct 25, 2018)

I like the idea of UV & projection and/or motion gobos over liquids, particularly liquids that stain. Alternately, a clear liquid that fluoresces deep red?

Or gas - a dry ice fog that falls from the 3" tube, illuminated red from above or below? Or a chilled chemical fog/haze that fluoresces red?

I'm trying to avoid gallons of red dye #2, water and cornstarch....

Extra credit if you can make the auditorium walls bleed, too.


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## dvsDave (Oct 25, 2018)

@erichart had a magic flag prop that might work.
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/magically-appearing-flags.33830/#post-294574
He might also have a suggestion for how to pull it off and make it only *look* messy!


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## dvsDave (Oct 25, 2018)

Also, WildFire has an invisible UV paint in red that could work. *You will need true 365nm UV lights, like wildfire or Apollo makes. I would strongly look into renting good UV lights for this effect if you can.


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## bobgaggle (Oct 25, 2018)

We're just a shop, building the set. Client wants real bleeding walls, so not my jurisdiction when it comes to clean up and all the other considerations. I like Ron's idea of just laying the hose in the nook between pipe and wall. Makes it easier to install and service later.


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## Chase P. (Oct 26, 2018)

I once saw a Japanese calligraphy practice board. It was a dark surface with a silk cloth overlay, you would brush plain water on the silk, and it would turn transparent showing the darker surface behind. I wonder if you could swing that with red walls and a scenic painted fabric surface. Plain old water would then reveal the backing. Much less messy than fake blood.

Let us know how you achieve it, and how it turns out!


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## bobgaggle (Oct 29, 2018)

Chase P. said:


> Let us know how you achieve it, and how it turns out!



I think I might actually get to see this show during final dress. I'll try to get a picture. I agree with all y'all about not actually having gallons of blood onstage, but in this case, I'm excited to do it. We're building the set and effect, and shipping it off... "Not my mess, not my problem" in the most literal sense haha. Client understands the necessary clean up


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## bobgaggle (Oct 30, 2018)

update: it was 3 minutes of blood, now its 10................ this will be interesting


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## sk8rsdad (Oct 30, 2018)

Time for a collection tray and a recirculating pump. Blood Fountain!


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## coldnorth57 (Oct 31, 2018)

The blood must flow!!!!


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## bobgaggle (Oct 31, 2018)

sk8rsdad said:


> Time for a collection tray and a recirculating pump. Blood Fountain!



Collection is just now being discussed. Can't cut a trough into the floor so now they're gonna design some kind of tray that fits the world. No circulation


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## TimMc (Nov 1, 2018)

bobgaggle said:


> Collection is just now being discussed. Can't cut a trough into the floor so now they're gonna design some kind of tray that fits the world. No circulation



"Arte" is what is made when a director's *vision* becomes line-billable items on an invoice.


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## tdtastic (Nov 1, 2018)

Gross! I love this. What is the blood made of, do you know? I think viscosity of whatever the blood solution is will determine much about pipe and hole sizes. Also what is the wall finish? I've had issues with many different blood recopies that stained whatever surface or fabric they touched. They ones you can find that are "stainless" seem to not be the best looking fake blood though.


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## bobgaggle (Nov 2, 2018)

Update:

Now its only going to bleed down the US wall, still 10 minutes worth.

tdtastic said:


> Gross! What is the blood made of, do you know? Also what is the wall finish?



They're discussing blood brand. cost/gallon vs shipping charges, you know the drill. As for wall finish, we've got about three clear coats on it now. Scenic charge did a 'blood' sample with red paint and was able to wash it off after letting it sit for 25 minutes. We figured paint was going to be worse than any blood product, given that its designed to stick to walls, so I think we're in the clear as long as they start cleaning immediately after the curtain drops


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## dvsDave (Nov 2, 2018)

Hope you got video?


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## bobgaggle (Nov 2, 2018)

dvsDave said:


> Hope you got video?



Sample was small scale, haven't even installed the set yet... thats next week


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## bobgaggle (Nov 8, 2018)

Installed! No video yet, waiting for blood to be delivered. Maybe tomorrow. Blood effect ended up being a 30 gallon trash can with a sump pump in it. Plastic irrigation hose with the stab in side emitters every 12". We'll see how it goes...


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## dvsDave (Nov 8, 2018)

bobgaggle said:


> Installed! No video yet, waiting for blood to be delivered. Maybe tomorrow. Blood effect ended up being a 30 gallon trash can with a sump pump in it. Plastic irrigation hose with the stab in side emitters every 12". We'll see how it goes...



I dunno about the rest of you, but I'm ridiculously excited to see how this turns out. That set looks fantastic! Those stairs look amazing, like they've been there forever.


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## bobgaggle (Nov 12, 2018)

Alright, no video, but the system was finally tested with water. Minor adjustment issues to get the water ONTO the wall, instead of dripping straight down about an inch away from the wall. Irrigation hose with the stab in emitters wasn't the way to go (leaks around the puncture in the hose. It was to be expected i guess), but for this application its ok. I'm not going to get to see it run with blood until after opening. I might try to sneak my phone up during the show if I'm sitting in the back....


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## Hutcoy (Sep 5, 2019)

TheaterEd said:


> Skylight Music Theater in Milwaukee made their walls bleed for Sweeny last year. Might try calling them up?



Super Late to the game but I was TD on that project at Skylight. Sorry I didn't see your post while it was relevant.

The wall bled with every death, at increasing rates with each murder. We had a sump pump in a 5 gal bucket of fake blood feeding a pvc pipe with holes drilled in it. The biggest help was having a ball valve in-line to prevent the wait time to start the blood on-cue. The pump was wired to a outlet, that was then activated by a light switch for the stagehand who had to be on the first level, because he was helping catch the murder victims coming down the slide moments prior.

Underneath there was a gap between the wall and the floor where we hid regular house gutters for collection. That all fed to a collection bucket underneath the second level. A well sealed wall and lots of silicone caulk, and we had almost zero leaks. A squeegee and towels helped with the minimal splashing onto the platform 12' below during post show clean up. We also would run clean water through the system to aid cleanup, as well as flush the line. Preset included re-priming the drip pipe until it was ready to bleed on cue.

I can't upload the video due to file size, but here's a link to google photos. This was after we worked the kinks out. https://photos.app.goo.gl/2PmLh7cB8F32rfNR8.

Scenic Design Credits: Charles Murdock Lucas


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## RonHebbard (Sep 5, 2019)

Hutcoy said:


> Super Late to the game but I was TD on that project at Skylight. Sorry I didn't see your post while it was relevant.
> 
> The wall bled with every death, at increasing rates with each murder. We had a sump pump in a 5 gal bucket of fake blood feeding a pvc pipe with holes drilled in it. The biggest help was having a ball valve in-line to prevent the wait time to start the blood on-cue. The pump was wired to a outlet, that was then activated by a light switch for the stagehand who had to be on the first level, because he was helping catch the murder victims coming down the slide moments prior.
> 
> ...


 *@Hutcoy* Did you require / have any one-way check valves in line to prevent blood flowing back to your source between cues OR did your sump pump run continuously building up a head against your ball valve*?* 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Hutcoy (Sep 5, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Hutcoy* Did you require / have any one-way check valves in line to prevent blood flowing back to your source between cues OR did your sump pump run continuously building up a head against your ball valve*?*
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



We kept the ball valve close to the source so very little head pressure was required. The feed line was regular 3/4" garden hose, so it didn't require much pressure to run up the 12' of wall. The source was pretty inaccessible during the run, so it needed to be able to run on its own. If memory serves there was an extension ladder that lead to an access platform that was behind the trick cabinet. Since this type of system requires a lot of "blood" staying in the lines, we would purge it at least weekly just to circulate it all to prevent anything gross from growing in the stagnant water, paint, glycerin concoction. We added a pinch of bleach just to keep things sanitary as actors were very close to the wall at times, and the chair slide went underneath the blood collection gutters, and we didn't want anyone getting sick.


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