# Application/Resume Question



## cvanp (Dec 25, 2007)

Hey all! I thought this would be the most appropriate place for this question but if not, move away!

I recently put in a bunch of college applications and in a few of them, my Resume was inadvertently not included. There was a sheet on the forms that sort of filled that function (fill in your activities, etc.) so a resume was not required - I'm just wondering if it would be good to mail or fax the resume along separately, with a note or something.

For what it's worth, I'm applying to Ithaca College, Le Moyne College, SUNY University at Buffalo, SUNY Buffalo State, and SUNY Fredonia for Theatrical Design. I'd like to branch out into more general theatre stuff too (I like directing and working with actors, but I don't act myself... I have stage fright!) so I'll try to do some of that too while in college.

Thanks!

Chris


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 26, 2007)

Don't sweat it Chris. Colleges don't really need or want your resume. As you said, they had forms to fulfill the same functions. Calling, writing, or faxing an addendum to your application will just make it look like you didn't follow directions, whether you did or not, and will probably piss off some secretary who has to then match up the new information with the original application. If the college needs more information from you, they'll ask for it, but it's highly unlikely. Class rank and SAT scores are what they look for, regardless of what they say. Then outside interests and activities.

All the schools to which you've applied seem like good ones. I don't think I even knew what a resume was until 2nd or 3rd year of college.

Good luck.


----------



## avkid (Dec 26, 2007)

cvanp said:


> applying to Ithaca College


When you come visit be sure to give me a  ring, and lunch will be on me.


----------



## bcfcst4 (Dec 26, 2007)

> Class rank and SAT scores are what they look for, regardless of what they say.



Not all colleges place the most weight on scores and class rank... Some schools don't even require you to submit scores. It's not all propaganda when they say that colleges are moving towards a more holistic view of applicants.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 26, 2007)

bcfcst4 said:


> Not all colleges place the most weight on scores and class rank... Some schools don't even require you to submit scores. It's not all propaganda when they say that colleges are moving towards a more holistic view of applicants.


Not trying to start an argument with you, bcfcst4. Universities/colleges must turn a profit in order to achieve their higher goal of education. Well, that and have a winning football team. It makes little financial sense to admit a candidate who, based on high school achievements, is likely to drop out or be expelled due to poor academic performance before matriculation.

Not talking about those ultra-liberal, hippie-type schools with the "no grade" policies and the like. As a high school senior, I briefly considered a College that had no curricula, all majors were independent study: "make your own major." My guidance counselor correctly advised that upon graduation, I would possess only the skills to be a scholar and go into academia. So I choose the University she, as well as my English, Math, and Theatre teachers, had attended. : )

College professors/admittance officers, feel free to jump in here...


----------



## bcfcst4 (Dec 26, 2007)

I do understand that colleges are, to an extent, a business, and they must look out for those students most likely to be a waste of their money. What I was saying is not that they disreguard these numbers, because (most) do take them into account, but that they don't necessarily place the most weight on those. Many schools aren't just going to admit you if you have the numbers, you need the essays and recommendations too. And, conversely, just because you don't have the numbers doesn't mean they won't admit you. That's why they have median ranges for scores, because a portion of their applicants had lower numbers, but looked better through essays, recs, and interviews.


----------



## soundlight (Dec 26, 2007)

Also, having a professor who goes and talks to admissions in favor of you attending is a BIG, BIG plus.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 26, 2007)

Point taken, bcfcst4. But to all the high-schoolers out there, don't misinterpret this thread as an excuse or justification for poor grades. _That_ was more my intent than anything.


----------



## cvanp (Dec 27, 2007)

I think I'm going to send the resume in... after a bit of thought I came to the conclusion that my application doesn't really reflect enough of me. I think the resume will help to show a bit more. I mean, my SAT scores are pretty darn good (if I say so myself) but my class rank isn't quite so hot... so I think sending along this resume will help them get a better idea of me. Perhaps.

We'll see, anyway.

Anyone care to proofread?  Thank you all for your help and advice... it's greatly appreciated!

Chris


----------



## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm coming late to this party sorry... but would have to agree with Derek that the vast majority of the time your resume will be ignored if not thrown away. Most of the time it's about SAT and GPA and they check the boxes that show you've covered your basic community service. In many cases a state school isn't allowed by law to look at anything but SAT and GPA, plug those into a formula and give you a score which determines entrance. 

In general colleges don't like random material outside of the standard form. How can they accurately compare you to the person who doesn't send a resume? What if the next person submits a 40 page portfolio of work? People sue over not getting into the right college. They have to have a set fair standard that they follow for everyone. So often they have a set scoring rubric which a committee uses to grade you based on only the information in the standard application form. 

So, I wouldn't worry about it too much. If it's a really exclusive school they'll have an in person interview which is the really important part where you do have the opportunity to submit your resume. Other than that my feeling is it's better to do exactly as you are told and not annoy the person grading your application.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 28, 2007)

Along the same lines as what Gafftaper was saying, when/if applying to the Human Resources Dept. of a Las Vegas Hotel/Casino, they won't even accept a resume, as everything is done on computer, either from your home or at their facility. Of course, it is appropriate and expected to bring one's resume to the interview, although don't be surprised if the interviewer declines to keep it.

That being said, cvanp's resume looks quite acceptable to me. No spelling/grammatical errors is a big plus in my book. +

Thanks, gafftaper, for the new word:
Main Entry:
*ru·bric* 
Pronunciation:
\ˈrü-brik, -ˌbrik\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English rubrike red ocher, heading in red letters of part of a book, from Anglo-French, from Latin rubrica, from rubr-, ruber red
Date:
14th century
1 a: an authoritative rule; especially : a rule for conduct of a liturgical service b (1): name, title; specifically : the title of a statute (2): something under which a thing is classed : category <the sensations falling under the general rubric, “pressure” — F. A. Geldard> c: an explanatory or introductory commentary : gloss; specifically : an editorial interpolation
2: a heading of a part of a book or manuscript done or underlined in a color (as red) different from the rest
3: an established rule, tradition, or custom
— rubric or ru·bri·cal \-bri-kəl\ adjective
— ru·bri·cal·ly \-bri-k(ə-)lē\ adverb


----------



## gafftaper (Dec 28, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> Thanks, gafftaper, for the new word:
> Main Entry:
> *ru·bric*
> Pronunciation:
> \ˈrü-brik, -ˌbrik\



Sorry occasionally I let me education show. 

Rubric is a word used a lot these days in the educational theory world (when I was getting my degree we referred to this as "edu-babble"). A real world example of a scoring rubric is Iron Chef America (I'm a Food Network junky). Chefs are graded by judges who give 1-10 points for taste, 1-5 points for Presentation, and 1-5 points for originality... that's a grading rubric. High Schools commonly use them for grading portfolios or Senior graduation projects. They are also commonly used in scoring artistic sporting events like gymnastics, ice skating, diving, even snowboarding. Any time you have something you need to grade or score but there is no right and wrong answer (or in the case of sports events where there is no clock or other team to out score by direct competition), rubrics are created. It breaks something that can't be easily quantified down into clearly definable components and gives points for those smaller areas. You've seen them your whole life you just didn't know that's what they are called. 

In the case of a college entrance application you might get 1-5 points for Class rank, School activities, community service, does your race/gender/finances help them reach their diversity targets for admissions, lots of ways they might grade you based on the information in their standard application.


----------



## cvanp (Dec 28, 2007)

Gafftaper, I think I'll take your advice and bring the resume just to the interview. Aside from being easier I think that's just the most appropriate thing to do in this situation.

Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions!


----------



## gafftaper (Dec 29, 2007)

cvanp said:


> Gafftaper, I think I'll take your advice and bring the resume just to the interview. Aside from being easier I think that's just the most appropriate thing to do in this situation.
> Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions!



For the interview I would do your best to make a killer portfolio. Page 1 or 2 being a resume followed by color pictures of your work. Something about 8-10 pages long. Take it all to Kinko's and have it professionally bound. Have several copies that you try to leave with the interview committee. I've had great luck with this strategy for job interviews. Really do it up nice. Show them how much you want to go to their school by the little details you put into it.

You want to do the little things that make you stand out and be memorable above the others. So, be remembered as "the guy who had that custom bound book that showed his work".


----------



## cvanp (Dec 29, 2007)

I do a lot of video work too, would I be smart to include DVDs in the portfolio even knowing that there is a 99.999999% chance that they will never look at them? I can put still captures from the video in the portfolio too.


----------



## gafftaper (Dec 29, 2007)

cvanp said:


> I do a lot of video work too, would I be smart to include DVDs in the portfolio even knowing that there is a 99.999999% chance that they will never look at them? I can put still captures from the video in the portfolio too.



I would definitely do both. Think like this: The committee is going to interview many people all of whom are equally well qualified. What can you do to make yourself stand out at the end of the day? What can you leave them or attempt to leave them that will help them remember you as that student who worked extra hard on the process. 

When their day is done they will go through their stack of papers and say, "Ok, We have to pick 5 of these 10. Which shall we choose? Well let's look at the applications. John... hmmm didn't really make an impression on me. Mary... oh she was the one who was dressed SO professionally. Dave... That's the who had that really nice portfolio... etc..." 

So what can you do in the interview or leave for them at the interview that will help you stand out in their memory... IN A POSITIVE way. Also remember they may have rules that prohibit them from accepting anything you want to leave, but it's always worth a shot. If you can leave that portfolio/dvd on the desk for them, even if they don't look in it, they have a powerful physical reminder of who you are and how bad you want in... again this trick works well in Job interviews too.


----------



## thorin81 (Dec 30, 2007)

cvanp - I would be glad to proof read it. Just shoot me a copy and I will do a mark up on it. 

Cheers!!


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 31, 2007)

thorin81 said:


> cvanp - I would be glad to proof read it. Just shoot me a copy and I will do a mark up on it.
> 
> Cheers!!


Click on the yellow underlined word "proofread" in post #9 above.


----------



## cvanp (Jan 1, 2008)

Hey all, thanks so much for your help. You guys are great!

One final question... I am going to try to schedule my Ithaca interview for the latest interview date (March 23). My reasoning is that by then, I'll have all the sets that I have designed for Guys And Dolls already built, and I will have pictures from the light design to stick in my portfolio.

I don't see an issue with this however I do think there might be a small possibility they would look badly on the fact that I'm waiting to the last minute. Is this just paranoia or would it be a real possibility?

Thanks again.


----------



## avkid (Jan 1, 2008)

cvanp said:


> Hey all, thanks so much for your help. You guys are great!
> One final question... I am going to try to schedule my Ithaca interview for the latest interview date (March 23). My reasoning is that by then, I'll have all the sets that I have designed for Guys And Dolls already built, and I will have pictures from the light design to stick in my portfolio.
> I don't see an issue with this however I do think there might be a small possibility they would look badly on the fact that I'm waiting to the last minute. Is this just paranoia or would it be a real possibility?
> Thanks again.


For admission in fall 2008?
That seems to be cutting it close.


----------



## cvanp (Jan 1, 2008)

It does seem late... I think I'll go with an earlier date instead. I think I'll go with either their March 1st or February 23rd option... those seem a bit better.


----------



## gafftaper (Jan 2, 2008)

Going back to interview "strategery"...

If you go early, you have the opportunity to become the standard that other candidates are measured against. If you interview at the end, you have the opportunity to blow them away and make them forget everyone they saw before you. I don't know that there is any strategic benefit to going in the middle so I would try to avoid that.


----------



## icewolf08 (Jan 2, 2008)

cvanp said:


> Hey all, thanks so much for your help. You guys are great!
> One final question... I am going to try to schedule my Ithaca interview for the latest interview date (March 23). My reasoning is that by then, I'll have all the sets that I have designed for Guys And Dolls already built, and I will have pictures from the light design to stick in my portfolio.
> I don't see an issue with this however I do think there might be a small possibility they would look badly on the fact that I'm waiting to the last minute. Is this just paranoia or would it be a real possibility?
> Thanks again.


They won't look down on when you schedule your interview, they realize that they need to have flexible dates so that everyone that wants to can come. Also, realize that at IC it is possible to be accepted to the school but not the theatre department. This is nothing to worry about, but just keep it in mind. This may not come out in the most comprehensible way, but I am going to try... Think about it like this: a good interview with the department will get you in the program, but they can't really do much if you don't meet the criteria to get into IC in general. On the other hand, you may meet all the criteria to get into IC, and you can be accepted, but it is possible to not be accepted to the theatre department.

Don't stress over it though. The faculty there are great, and they know that everyone comes from a different background and has been trained differently. The most important thing to do is show that you are passionate about your work. The department is looking for dedicated and hard working people who have a passion for theatre and want to make a life out of it. You don't have to say that in so many words, but if you present yourself with that image it will go a long way.

Be prepared to answer questions about your designs and design choices. Questions akin to the cliche "what was your motivation" will come up. Also remember that your interview is a time for you to ask questions about the school and the program (no matter where you are interviewing). Have a couple questions ready to ask your interviewer like:
•"What do students do for outside experience?"
•"What kind of internship opportunities are there?"
•"what do people do around here for fun?"​Questions like that will show an interest in school/program and that you get out a little.

If you have questions about IC, feel free to PM or email me as I am an alum and would be happy to talk to you further about the school.

EDIT: BTW, when you go up there tell them I said hi!


----------



## gafftaper (Jan 2, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> Also remember that your interview is a time for you to ask questions about the school and the program (no matter where you are interviewing). Have a couple questions ready to ask your interviewer like:
> •"What do students do for outside experience?"
> •"What kind of internship opportunities are there?"
> •"what do people do around here for fun?"​Questions like that will show an interest in school/program and that you get out a little.



This is a really important point. Try to have one or two really good detailed questions that show what you know about the college. This shows you have done your homework about them, and are choosing that college based on your research. The last thing you want to do is to give the impression that this interview is just one of many and you really don't care about one college vs. another. For example, a question of the theater department about how what kinds of opportunities you will have as an undergrad to work on shows. or better yet a question about specific facilities on campus.


----------



## mbandgeek (Jan 7, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Not trying to start an argument with you, bcfcst4. Universities/colleges must turn a profit in order to achieve their higher goal of education. Well, that and have a winning football team. It makes little financial sense to admit a candidate who, based on high school achievements, is likely to drop out or be expelled due to poor academic performance before matriculation.
> Not talking about those ultra-liberal, hippie-type schools with the "no grade" policies and the like. As a high school senior, I briefly considered a College that had no curricula, all majors were independent study: "make your own major." My guidance counselor correctly advised that upon graduation, I would possess only the skills to be a scholar and go into academia. So I choose the University she, as well as my English, Math, and Theatre teachers, had attended. : )
> College professors/admittance officers, feel free to jump in here...



I must disagree with you on this one. My brother was 3rd in his class, with a 4.5 or 4.6 GPA. His SAT scores were outstanding as well. He also recieved enough money in grants to go pretty much where ever he wanted. It is not at all about what your grades are. It is who you know. The school he is in now, is good, but not Ivy league like he was hoping for.


----------

