# Analog vs. Digital



## mcgart (Dec 10, 2006)

There has been discussion within my school as to whether we should replace our current analog sound console with a digital one. As of yet, no specific digital consoles have been suggested but my question is whether analog or digital is better. We currently have a pretty good Midas Venice 320 which suits our needs and I am pretty much against replacing it with a digital consoles. Just like to know some views or experiences of using digital consoles.


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## PhantomD (Dec 10, 2006)

EDIT: whoops this is sound not lighting

If an analogue console is meeting your needs perfectly and is fault-free, then by all means keep it.

If your shows are complex to the point of needing scene and fader recall, motorised faders, EQ, gate, compression and the like built-in, then by all means upgrade to digital.

Will post more later when I've had a think.


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## mcgart (Dec 10, 2006)

Our shows never reach the complexity of needing anything beyond simple microphone and sound input management. 

One problem I have is trying to convince the person behind wanting to buy a new board that it is not needed. He is convinced that it will solve some issues we have in regards to sound quality, but I know for a fact that those issues are due to bad wiring. 

So now I need some info on digital consoles that will make him reconsider...

Thanks for the start


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## PhantomD (Dec 10, 2006)

What are the issues?

If you need a specific piece of equipment like an EQ for example to fix audio quality then it will be easier and cheaper just to add one to the current rig rather than blowing the budget for a digital that has that and the kitchen sink built in, and a bit of a learning curve.

If you have wiring issues, spend the money on fixing the wiring.

I don't think it's worth it in my/your situation - it's the difference between "want" and "need" and "cost". I'd LIKE a digital mixer in my situation, but we certainly don't need one.

Also, although many newer (esp. Yamaha) units come close, a digital mixer is never as fast to manipulate as an analogue mixer for live sound.


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## PhantomD (Dec 10, 2006)

PhantomD said:


> If you have wiring issues, spend the money on fixing the wiring.



Getting a digital mixer to fix serious wiring problems is like trying to fix a broken leg with a band-aid.

I have just had to resolder and clean the connections on all the leads going into our graphic EQ because they were causing the left-channel to drop out and various other problems. The solder joints were brown!


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## Chris15 (Dec 10, 2006)

I have a suggestion for you. If this person believes that a digital console will fix your problems, then how about hiring one in for a show or a day or whatever and see if it does indeed fix your problem, or whether, as you suspect, the problems will remain. If the problems stay, then it goes a way to confirming your theory that it is a wiring problem... Just an idea.


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## mcgart (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree with everything people have said about buying a digital console in an attempt to quick fix a solution. I would love to rewire the venue but our school is pretty bad when it comes to spending money in our theatre department. Is there any issues about digital consoles that may potentially convince the person who wants to buy it to rethink? Also are there any major advantages of a digital console over an analog one...


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## Chris15 (Dec 10, 2006)

Please excuse my ignorance here, but if if it hard to get money spent in the theatre dept., is it not a more effective use of that money to fix up your wiring etc. while your existing console is still serving your needs adequately rather than make a capital outlay on a new mixer than potentially will suffer the same problem?


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## TechiGoz (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree. Although there are alot of Digital boards coming out onto the market, in some cases a good analogue desk that works perfectly well is better. Sure, it can't do the things that you can do with a digital board, but if all you are using is a couple of mics and some other input signals, then stick with the analogue. if you want to include something like a reverb unit, or compressor, of eq's or whatever, just add it into the rig. 

As for the person who wants to fix things by getting a digital desk, talk to him about the issues, do a bit of tweaking with wiring etc and see if that does. If he's still not impressed, let him/her pay for a testing day where you hire a desk, as someone else suggested already. See where that goes.

Cheers Bro


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## mcgart (Dec 10, 2006)

there in lies the problem...the ignorance of one person. The person wanting to buy the digital console is actually part of the music department - totally different budget to ours. I have repeatedly tried to get him to spend money fixing the wiring but he insists that a digital console will do it - he is what you would say completely ignorant with no experience in this sort of thing. I am now trying to get some info that I could use to persuade him not to waste the money - plus im perfectly happy with the analog console.


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## Chris15 (Dec 10, 2006)

The more I hear about this situation, the more appropriate hiring in the desired console for a test seems to become. Think of it this way: how many people buy a car wthout ever sitting in it or going for a test drive? The numbers are not that good. Hiring a console in is akin to test driving a new car - a good way to find out whether or not it works for you. It wuld also allow this person to check that what they think will work might actually have some chanc of working...

Again, just a thought.


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## mcgart (Dec 10, 2006)

Yes...I am beginning to think this would be the most appropriate thing to do. It would also give me a chance to show how it won't do what he thinks it will. Which leads me to the next question: What digitial boards do you recommend that won't blow the budget (keeping in mind this is a school theatre - funds not exactly flowing). Thanks for a possible solution!


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## Eboy87 (Dec 10, 2006)

mcgart said:


> question: What digitial boards do you recommend that won't blow the budget (keeping in mind this is a school theatre - funds not exactly flowing). Thanks for a possible solution!



How many channels? What are the requirements? Do you need everything in it including the kitchen sink as well as the bathtub? Yamaha's 01v96 is good for starters, almost bought one myself, but had a reality check and stuck with my Onyx 1620 (Bought a Gibson SG instead). Beg pardon, random ponderings. Anyway, Yamaha's new LS9 or M7 might be more along the lines of what you want to rent to demonstrate. 

For a cheaper solution to the Yammies, you may want to look at Mackie's TT24 (*gasp*). I've got friends who've bought one and are quite pleased with it. I think they've fixed the bugs that plauged the early units. 

If it were me, I'd probably look at the M7. Now, that being said, digital is not cheap. A good M7 will run you around $15k new, the LS9-32 retails for $11k. An 01V is around $2200, and the Mackie, last time I checked, was around $7k.

Definitly rent one of the boards you're looking at first, to demonstrate that it may not do all he thinks it does; that you don't need a console with a full bathroom built-in to run sound. The rates shouldn't be that bad (all things relative of course), it'll definitly be cheaper than buying one. 

All that being said, you said you had a Venice? Ok, so it's lower-end Midas, but it's still a Midas. Stick with it. I'd rather mix on a Midas than most digital boards, with the exception of DiGiCo and the Yamaha PM1D and 5D.

Good luck


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## Dillon (Dec 10, 2006)

I'm in the "stick with the analog" camp, but for a different reason...

An analog mixer is easier to LEARN on. Not many high schoolers come in with any understanding of the principles of live sound. The best way to learn it, is in a hands-on environment. No one should ever learn sound from scratch on a digital board. Any analog board has the same primary functions and features (group routing, inserts, aux sends, pre/post fader, eq strip, mute, gain, etc.) Getting a handle on these basic principles is essential before tackling the world of digital mixers.


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## saxman0317 (Dec 10, 2006)

We just switched over, and number one, running a digital show is much different than an analog show. It takes a bit to make it so that you can run rehersals just as smoothly, but in the long run its a whole lot easier with saved cues and what not... BUT...on that note, i still keep the old analog nearby and take notes like i was running an old show. Ive hada few shows where the whole digital thing just has too many bells and whistles that want to go to poop on me that day. Cues wiped out, and everything. Their great when they work, anda head ache when they dont. My advice, get it, but make sure that you treat it like an analog in rehersals still as far and notes and stuff, something can always go wrong.


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## TechiGoz (Dec 10, 2006)

I agree with Saxman and Dillon for both their reasons. Firstly I agree 100% that an analogue is the way to go when learning about front of house sound and mixing. Although it may not be as versatile as a digital desk, they do the job and call for a bit of thinking which is what you need for a learning curve.

Saxman is also correct when he says they have the chance of failing at any moment and so you should stick with it as if it is an analogue during rehearsals. 

Just agreeing with other peoples thoughts


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## SHARYNF (Dec 11, 2006)

I'm not going to get in to the argument of analog vs digital, I've beaten that one to death on another thread ;-))))

What are the problems? what are the indication that it is wiring?? While just saying that getting a digital desk will fix the problem is pretty silly, at the same time saying it is wiring without describing the problem is sort of silly.

Sharyn


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## mcgart (Dec 11, 2006)

The major problem is that there is an annoying persistant hum that comes through the speakers. We have narrowed it down to a wiring problem because when we take the same equipment and use it off site with new wiring it works perfectly. Also, all the power for our sound and lighting equipment is earthed at the same point - from what I've been reading that causes ground loop problems...I may be wrong but that's my understanding. The hum is annoying but not so bad that we can't use the sound system.


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## mcgart (Dec 11, 2006)

In regards to our needs, I wouldn't like to downgrade from what we have at the moment. So that would be 24 channels with aux and fx sends - all the general stuff you find on a middle level analog console. As for things in the digital console, I wouldn't be looking at anything too fancy as it would make it difficult to teach new people/ and also general daily operation.


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## Chris15 (Dec 11, 2006)

The words ground loop seem to spring to mind... Not sure how to resolve it without knowing more about the situation.

EDIT: The long day must be getting to me. Why on Earth I made a comment like that when it was suggested above I do not know.


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## cutlunch (Dec 11, 2006)

mcgart said:


> The major problem is that there is an annoying persistant hum that comes through the speakers. We have narrowed it down to a wiring problem because when we take the same equipment and use it off site with new wiring it works perfectly. Also, all the power for our sound and lighting equipment is earthed at the same point - from what I've been reading that causes ground loop problems...I may be wrong but that's my understanding. The hum is annoying but not so bad that we can't use the sound system.



To help locate the problem a little bit more info is needed.

Are the amplifiers in the control booth with the mixer or are they backstage?
Also does the hum change as you change the level of lights especialy when the levels are below 40%. If the hum doesn't change then it's not the dimmers dirtying up the power supply.

Another thing you can try is bring in an electrical isolation transformer. Ie the type to stop you getting electrocuted when working outside. Make sure it has enough current rating and plug the sound equipment into it. This will isolate it from the lighting gear. See if this helps.

You say you take the equipment and it works with new wiring but you don't say what new wiring. Is it just the leads from the speakers or do you change leads from the mixer to the mixing desk.

You don't say where you think the faulty wiring is from mixing desk to the amplifiers ( via any processing). I would start by disconnecting the amplifier input leads then turn the amp up and see if the hum is still there. Then step back to the mixer. If you have any processing gear in between take it one piece at a time. Is the hum on only one channel or both? If it is only one swap leads to see if you can isolate wiring that is faulty.

Does the hum only happen when you have a certain channel on the mixer up. If so what is connected to this channel. Swap the input to a different chanell and re-check.

If you find a lead at fault either replace it or if it is fixed wiring check the soldering on each end. Also use a meter to check for open and / or circuits.

While I was doing this I would keep a log of each step. This way you can go back to the powers to be and say you have found where the problem is. If you can specify where it is they are more likely to pay to repair it. If you just go to them and say it's in the wiring but not where they have no idea of how much it is likely to cost.

Also they will listen to you more if they can see you have thought out this problem in a logical manner.

Also if you can isolate the faulty wire you maybe able to convince the Music Teacher to hold off on a new desk until the wiring is fixed. You maybe able to say tactfully to them that if we get this new desk and it doesn't fix the problem we will look like fools.

Also think of this as a good learning oppurtunity. If you continue in theatre this is the sort of problem you will have to solve half an hour before a show opens.


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## mcgart (Dec 11, 2006)

I'll have a stab at replying to those things you've mentioned above. Just before I start, I'll just say that I'm relatively new to this sort of stuff so I may not give the proper run down of the problem. 
We don't use any amplifiers as all our speakers are powered. Our setup is as follows: Sound from the board is sent first through a reverb processor and routed back in through an FX return. That mixed sound is then sent through a graphic equaliser where it is finally sent from the control booth at the back, about 20 metres to the FOH speakers. Similarly, we have monitor and bass speakers running out of monitor and aux sends, but they do not run through the equaliser. Instead they run straight from the booth to the speakers, also about 20 metres away. We receive hum out of all the speakers. 

When I move the sound board and speakers (minus the equaliser) to another location, and rewire both the power in and lead connections between board and speakers, the hum is not present. And I am pretty certain it is not the equaliser, as on one occasion I took that offsite too and it didn't add any hum. 

Just thought I would provide a general overview of our setup. At the next chance I get, I will run through some of those troubleshooting options you described. 

As for the dimmers affecting the sound, there is no noticeable difference when they are over 40%, so I am beginning to think they may have nothing to do with it. 

I'll keep you posted with my results, but any other suggestions would be welcomed....thanks for the start Cutlunch


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## Eboy87 (Dec 11, 2006)

See if you can find a circuit(s) that isn't feeding the dimmers, and plug the gear into it. See if that gets rid of your buzz. I agree with whoever said there's a ground loop problem: dimmers + audio + same circuit = a world of bad (ok, not a world, but it ain't good).


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## cutlunch (Dec 11, 2006)

Mcgart you did a great job of describing the setup. It has given me some more specific clues. If you get time, posting the make & model of your equipment may be helpful but we can work without it for now.

Where do the speakers get their power from? Is it from power points on stage or do you run extension leads all the way from the sound desk. If the speakers are powered from the stage I would try plugging them into to the same power point as the mixing desk. This is just a temporary idea so you can use an extension cord and only connect one or two speakers so you don't overload the circuit. 

If this makes a difference you now know the problem is in the power supply. Now for some solutions:

1) I have already mentioned using an electrical isolation transformer. Borrow one to try this out. Put the transformer at the mixing desk and feed the desk, reverb, eq from it. Does this make a difference? If not try powering the speakers through the transformer.

I would probably try the transformer first. I would would be fairly confident this should fix the problem.

2) If it doesn't or you can't get a transformer then I would try modifying the audio cables that feed the speakers. You will either have to be able to solder yourself or have someone who can help you.

I would start with only one speaker and lead. I am assuming that you are using XLR leads. Go to the XLR plug that plugs into the back of the speaker. Take the cover off. You want to disconect the wire ( shield) connected to pin 1. The lead could be just a collection of bare copper wire or it may have some insulation around it. Don't cut it, unsolder it. If this same wire also appears to go to a little metal tag that is connected to the metal case of the plug disconnect it . You don't have to put the cover back on the plug yet if you are careful. Plug it back into the speaker and see if the hum is still there. If it has gone then you can cut back the shield and tidy up the plug. You will need to do this on the lead that plugs into each speaker. But first check that the speaker doesn't have a ground lift switch. That is the eqivalent of what we did by unsoldering the lead. 

In fact you probably should check the speakers for one of these before you disassemble the plug. If the speaker has a ground lift switch then put it to the ground lift position and see what happens to the hum. If the hum goes away this is the answer. Some of your speakers may not have a ground lift switch so you will have to modify their input leads as above.

If neither the transformer or modifying the cable (ground lift) reduce the hum then you must have a very unusual problem. Then you will have to get outside help in.

For the isolation transformer either the Shop Class or the janitors may have one you can borrow. If the leads and plugs look to damaged on it it might pay to get it checked by an electrician before using it.


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## SHARYNF (Dec 11, 2006)

Just some clarification
In general having both the mixer and processing equipment and the amps all connected to the same power source and ground will eliminate the hum.

In your setup I don't think the problem is going to be solved with a transformer on the ac supply.

In general it is a combination of the equipment in the booth and the powered speakers not being on the same power source. I would definitely try the same power to both, so make sure you plug in the powered speakers, and the mixer and all the procession all to ONE circuit. This then has everything on the same power source and ground.

The transformer that you could look at would be more likely to be an isolation transformer on the line feeds to the speakers, again not likely to be on the ac side of things, especially since the dimmers don't seem to affect it.

It is also possible that you have a cable where one of the connections in the cables has gone bad, so I agree open up the connectors and check them, you might want to get a cable tester.

All this assumes that the cable being used is balanced two wire with shield and usually xlr connectors. If for some reason it is only two wire including shield than that is probably your problem. I have found that connecting the mixer/processor rack and the speakers usually fixed the problems, typically there is a ground connection problem in the power system that is weak or has a grounding point somewhere else along the line between the outlets and the main panel breakers

Sharyn


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## Schniapereli (Dec 12, 2006)

So, is it better to have a balanced TRS cable on just a regular wireless lav. What's better with the signal (since it is just MONO) as opposed to an unbalanced TS cable? Is the hum the only benefit? When would an unbalanced cable be used. (do they just make them because they are cheaper, or are they preferable in some cases?)

When are Digital Mixers used? I know the Cadac J-type is an analog mixer, and is the standard for broadway theater. Do they use digital ones for rock groups, or stuff like that?


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## Chris15 (Dec 12, 2006)

Schniapereli said:


> So, is it better to have a balanced TRS cable on just a regular wireless lav. What's better with the signal (since it is just MONO) as opposed to an unbalanced TS cable? Is the hum the only benefit? When would an unbalanced cable be used. (do they just make them because they are cheaper, or are they preferable in some cases?)
> When are Digital Mixers used? I know the Cadac J-type is an analog mixer, and is the standard for broadway theater. Do they use digital ones for rock groups, or stuff like that?



A balanced TRS cable is a seperate matter to stereo or mono. Could you please clarify what you mean when you say "just a regular wireless lav"? Do you mean the input cable to the transmitter or the output cable from the output cable from the receiver? Balanced cables are not used for inputs in my experience. The transmitters very rarely have balanced inputs. The output from the receiver, supposing that we are talking about radio mics other than the absolute bottom of the line, I would be expecting a balanced output on an XLR. Some will have a 1/4" TS output as well. Given the option, why wouldn't you use the XLR output? Unbalanced cables are NORMALLY fine for short distances, but for long distances or in environments with high electrical noise levels, balanced cables are better.


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## mcgart (Dec 12, 2006)

Thanks for the detailed reply!

The speakers all get power from different points on stage - totally seperate from where the sound console is drawing power from. Your solution of using them off the one power source sounds promising as I remember when I took the equipment offsite and plugged it off the one source the hum was gone. 

I have read on several websites that removing the connection of Pin 1 can help with the hum. I haven't tried this yet but next chance I get will give it a go. I am not entirely sure whether our speakers have a ground lift switch as I couldn't find one when I looked. We currently use Meyer UltraSeries speakers in our theatre. 

Thanks for the advice...will implement it and get back to you.


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## cutlunch (Dec 12, 2006)

Mcgart in my earlier post to you I mentioned trying out powering the speakers via an extension lead from the sound desk power supply. I probably should have expanded on the point more.

As SharynF says running everything from the same power source is the ideal. But it poses some questions for you to get answers to. If you are going to do this then first you need to know the total power load for the equipment. This should be just a matter of adding up the loads marked on the equipment. Then the harder part is finding out what load the circuit you want to connect to is rated for. You might need to talk to the schools electrician (electrical contractor) . The electrician may also be able to show you if any of the stage points are on the same circuit as the sound desk. If you are lucky they maybe able to re-wire a stage point to this circuit so you don't have to run extension leads.


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## Schniapereli (Dec 12, 2006)

I'll rephrase the question.

We don't have enough XLR cables to connect all of our Shure wireless receivers to the Mixer. We use as much as we can though. We have a few TRS cables, (but not much), but we have a lot of TS cables (which are also conveniently short). What sound quality is sacrificed from using a TS cable connecting the receiver to the mixer as apposed to using a TRS cable? (Since The signal is MONO, and the cord goes about 3 feet...)


(...and, if anybody knows, if they don't use digital mixers on Broadway, do they just use them for music/rock groups?...)


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## Eboy87 (Dec 12, 2006)

Schniapereli said:


> (...and, if anybody knows, if they don't use digital mixers on Broadway, do they just use them for music/rock groups?...)



Who says they don't use digital on Broadway? I know Spamalot is using DiGiCo's D5T, Bombay Dreams had a PM1D. I've seen other tours come through where they've mixed the pit on a DM2000. 

I still prefer analog boards at this point, it just seems counter intuitive to me to only adjust one channel at a time like you do on most digital boards, but they make up for that in recall ability.

As far as the 1/4" TS vs. XLR, I'm sure that if it's a short run, it won't matter too much. But, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, won't you then be connecting a mic level source into the console's line level input? Unless of course you plan on using a 1/4" to XLR adapter. Then again, I don't know what the recievers' output is. Wait, disregard that. I'm pretty sure they're line level. Oh well, it's finals week and my brain is overloaded. I'm gonna quit before I ramble on further.


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## mcgart (Dec 12, 2006)

I don't think the load on the circuit will be a problem - currently all the speakers run off the same circuit but on a different source to the sound board. Judging by this I think we should be able to safely run them off the same circuit as the board. In any case, I shall check with the relevant person. Hopefully the will then be able to rewire and provide a more permanent solution.


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## SHARYNF (Dec 12, 2006)

Here are some thoughts

Audio amps or the amps in speakers rarely ever take the full rating of the amplifier. Amps feeding subs might come close. but audio is not a constant signal so the loading is not very high. SO I agree you can probably run it all off the same power source. It is important to realize that the potential problem is the path from the power point back to the breaker panel. I have seen electricians argue it is all on the same breaker it does not matter. This is correct ONLY if there is dedicated isolated ground feed from the outlet back to the panel. Many electrical contractors skimp and use grounded outlets that use the electrical conduit for the ground. Usually this is safe, and if they use a little tester it shows no problem but, from tons of experience, with audio with high gain the small ground currents and loops cause a different potential and cause hum. Again Electricians understand safety but not necessarily the best setup for sensitive equipment. In addition if anything else is plugged into this circuit and its grounding is not totally clean, this will also introduce hum into the system.

Re balanced vs unbalanced 

If you want to have a whole lot less problems, make sure anything connected to your mixer is either balanced itself of via an isolation transformer. 

Basically the bottom line is this
In an unbalanced circuit ts for instance, the shield/ground of the cable is part of the signal. In a Balanced Circuit trs xlr, the Shield?ground in NOT part of the circuit and ONLY serves to basically feed the small signals in the shield to ground and eliminate them from the audio circuit. 

So when you use a ts to connect your wireless receiver to your mixer, you are feeding the ground noise from the receiver to the input of your sustem.

XLR or TRS cables are not expensive, and you will simplify and clean up all sort of additive problems if you eliminate them.

I have seem people bring in a piece of consumer gear, with only a two wire mains connection, take cheap rca outputs, put rca-ts jack adaptors on them and then wonder why they may have hum and noise. Will it always cause a problem NO, but that is what drives you crazy, in that it is not a black and white situation rather a detective exercise to fine what is causing the problem.

SO IMO get the proper xlr or trs cables to connect your wireless mics to your mixer

Sharyn


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## TechiGoz (Dec 13, 2006)

I find it amusing how topics just flow on in conversation and are now talking about detailed problem solving! Wow.. its just great! But that it just a side thought 

Anyway, back to the issues at hand. It seems, mcgart, that you are suffering a definate case of the ground loop syndrome known as the mixedlightandsound effect. Not really, I just made that up. Everybody's suggestions sound great, and I'm sure that at least ONE of them will work, if not more. 

When you say you have taken the equipment off site and it has worked without hum, that is a clear indication to me that it is more of a power problem than a wiring issue, however it could be both. Certainly having your speakers come from the same circuit(s) as the lighting dimmers and desk will have an effect on the hum/buzz. So try what everyone else has suggested, i shant rewrite it here, and see how things go.

Good Luck


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## mcgart (Dec 13, 2006)

Thanks TechiGoz,

I believe you to have more knowledge of this problem as you have actually experienced the change when we take it off site. Considering you have worked in the theatre where the problems are originating, and you have a knowledge of the equipment, what solution would you suggest I should try. Judging from your post your recommending I try to have the speakers running off the same source as the board. Do you believe this will overload the circuit, considering we also have the equaliser, mixer, mics and other audio equipment running off it. Just interested to know what you think. Thanks!


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## TechiGoz (Dec 13, 2006)

No problem Mcgart,

You are correct! From my experience working in the theatre and moving the equipment off site, and from the observations that I have seen, it comes down to two possibilities in my opinion. Possibilities that have already been mentioned by a myriad of other replies to this post.

a) Power. I do think that part of the reason we have and still are experiencing the hum is because of the mix in grounding by lighting and sound. If we were to test (which we will) the power, there is some possibility that it may over load the circuit. As a result, we may change the circuit that the lighting comes off and link two for sound. 

b) Wiring, as you have said, is most likely another cause due to the state of the theatre which you know so well. This is another thing we will fix/test to see if it help. We shall talk more at length via email. 

Thanks to everyone who has posted their opinions! They are really helping our quest! 

Cheers!


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## highschooltech (Dec 17, 2006)

I know several bands that use digital. Cassy and the Sunshine Band use a Yamaha PM5D. I know this because i was just trained on one today by their monitor mixer


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## saxman0317 (Dec 19, 2006)

Schniapereli said:


> I'll rephrase the question.
> We don't have enough XLR cables to connect all of our Shure wireless receivers to the Mixer. We use as much as we can though. We have a few TRS cables, (but not much), but we have a lot of TS cables (which are also conveniently short). What sound quality is sacrificed from using a TS cable connecting the receiver to the mixer as apposed to using a TRS cable? (Since The signal is MONO, and the cord goes about 3 feet...)
> (...and, if anybody knows, if they don't use digital mixers on Broadway, do they just use them for music/rock groups?...)



It depends on the show, venue, and tech. Ive seen broadway shows that do have digital, some with analog, and some with both actually. Blue Man is notroius...i would love to work wih their tech crew one day. I got myself into one of their mix decks at a show i went to, and there were 4 seperate boards for sound, 3 analog, 1 digtital. I was talking to the guy who ran it all, and he just simple said that with all the stuff that they had going on, they found it a whole lot easier with some things to be on analog for the easy of live edit, and some on digital because of the amount of aux. effects they were feeding through the channals. As far as running shows with the two, i refuse to work a live band or the equvilent with anything but analog...i dont like not being able to see everything thats going on with my EQ's and such when doing something so fluid and busy. Plays and such though arent bad..their alittle slower moving. 
As to the first issue of thispost, we had the same problem a few times inn one of the theaters i work at. Our electrician rigged up a homemade grounding box with a bunch of transistors and circuits...maybe you can find some stuff online on how to do it? We had half a dozen of those and just ran everything off it isolating our gear and it worked great.


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## Stu (Mar 16, 2007)

Our theatre is in kind of the same boat -- except that they have decided to go ahead with the digital console. Trying to decide between the Mackie TT24 and the Yamaha PS9. Any recommendations?


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## audioslavematt (Mar 16, 2007)

Stu said:


> Our theatre is in kind of the same boat -- except that they have decided to go ahead with the digital console. Trying to decide between the Mackie TT24 and the Yamaha PS9. Any recommendations?



Go with the LS9. A lot of people think the Mackie is a lot clunkier to use and the onboard effects aren't as good as the LS9. Not only that, but the Yamaha will most likely get more respect if you have outside groups come in and use the facility.


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## soundlight (Mar 16, 2007)

LS9 is my vote by far. So many people have switched from TT24 to LS9 since the LS9 came out, from what I've seen on other forums and review pages. You can get the LS9-32 for around $8K new if you ask the right people. Then pop a pair of 8x TRS line cards in there, and you've got 48 channels.


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