# What do you hate about your light board?



## MillburyAuditorium (Dec 13, 2009)

Sorry if this was posted before.

Well, here you can rant about what you hate about your light board.

I'll start, 
Well we have a ColorTran Status 24/48. Which I just found out not many people like Colortran and our entire system is through them xD
Well the main thing I dislike, besides it crapping out all the time :/, is that its well, a 24/48. When we get a new board we're getting a 48/96, most likely an ETC Express. I was quit upset when I saw that the Element doesn't have a 48/96 model. 
I like to be able to have every light at the tip of my fingers, and since we use more than 48 lights, I cant. 
Plus if we had an Express 48/96 I could do some crazy thing with the houselights since each slider has a bump button xD (each row of our houselights have its on dimmer/channel.


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## Esoteric (Dec 13, 2009)

I have so many consoles I work on. But I can tell you there are only 3 consoles that I have no complaints with. The GrandMA, The Hog Series, and the Avo Pearl/Diamond. Every other console that I have ever used (I have never used a Pallette) has its drawbacks and advantages.

Mike


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## Anvilx (Dec 13, 2009)

I hate trying to make little changes or label my cues for my etc express 24/48.
I have to save to floppy>open floppy on my dads computer> transfer the contents to a usb drive> open the show file on my pc> edit the show file>write that to the usb drive>head back to my dads pc> write from usb to the floppy> mount the floppy with the console.​What a waste of time.

Plus I wish show files were txt read/write-able, it would make my life so much easier.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Dec 13, 2009)

Wow Anvil, wouldn't it just be easier to redo the whole cue?


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## erosing (Dec 13, 2009)

I hate that it's not a physical desk. I miss buttons and tactile response, only three more days.


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## Synchronize (Dec 13, 2009)

We have a Leigh Millennium at my school and its such an old desk that there is a buildup of dust or something in the grandmaster slider and it never goes to Full. It bounces between 99 and 98 when the slider is all the way up. Not a show stopper, but it bugs the crap out of me. The other thing is that its a memory console with two scene capability and has two DMX universes. It has an A/B fade and a C/D fade so it has go, hold, clear, etc. times two. Hit the wrong Go button and you're good as screwed without making it look even worse that the lights not changing when they're supposed to in the first place.

Good thing it crapped out on me this weekend right before a show. Maybe the school will finally fork out for a new one. Spend some $8,000,000 a year and can't find a dime for theatre.


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## Studio (Dec 13, 2009)

Strand 300 Series 2 go buttons one is labeled NO GO now, freezes if you press Go too long, monitors won't turn on all the time, if you leave a floppy in it won't boot, if you mess with the trackball it freezes, it once deleted a whole show 1/2 hour before opening night, wheel is broken, needs a new ps/2 keyboard.

Our school's light board is named Lucifer and has a mural on the air duct depicting Lucifer in flames. (not that I would say anything bad about lucifer he likes positive encouragement and hates negativity. It is a careful balance and now that I have said this I am glad we have a backup Strand 200 series in our other theater which is awesome).


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## Anvilx (Dec 13, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Wow Anvil, wouldn't it just be easier to redo the whole cue?



Yeah it is. However you can't attach a key directly to the console so every time I want to label a cue I have to go through the routine.


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## Les (Dec 13, 2009)

Synchronize said:


> We have a Leigh Millennium at my school and its such an old desk that there is a buildup of dust or something in the grandmaster slider and it never goes to Full. It bounces between 99 and 98 when the slider is all the way up. Not a show stopper, but it bugs the crap out of me. The other thing is that its a memory console with two scene capability and has two DMX universes. It has an A/B fade and a C/D fade so it has go, hold, clear, etc. times two. Hit the wrong Go button and you're good as screwed without making it look even worse that the lights not changing when they're supposed to in the first place.



ETC Expression and Express do this too, it's not an uncommon thing. Simple fix: Pay attention to which button you're pressing


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## mstaylor (Dec 13, 2009)

We have an Expression in one of the theatres that I work in. To be honest I haven't done a show on it for a couple of years, had others run the show, but it has had serious issues since day one. Basically they have never gotten the computer to work correctly and has now been taken off, don't even know where it is, essentially making it an Express with double monitors. They have spent hours on the phone with tech support and never have completely gotten it fixed.


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## MarshallPope (Dec 13, 2009)

Studio said:


> Our school's light board is named Lucifer



Funny, my high school director was called Lucifer... Lu for short...

Anyway, I'm very pleased by the console we use at my college (a Jands Vista) but my high school's console was...interesting. It was a 1970's-ish board (Don't remember exactly what it was, and it was replaced then they opened a new PAC this year) but it was a memory console that nobody knew how to program, and half of the buttons on the side which no one knew what were for, didn't work in the first place. And the beautiful sliders... Let's just say that about half of them actually had the little plastic things still attached... Luckily, enough of them were loose that we could usually move them around to the most-used sliders.


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## hhslights (Dec 13, 2009)

Well, we just got an Ion but I can tell you what I HATED about my old board. It was an EDI Minstrel Plus. It was the devil, I swear. It would dump its memory on occasion. It liked to especially during tech week or something important. Most memorable, when it dumped during lunch for double run. Had to reprogram as we went through the second run through. Then occasionally it would set itself to a five minute fadeout. There is also the fact that most of the buttons on the keypad don't work like they should (idk if it is because of its age or if something happened to it at one point). During our musical last year, it and the dimmer rack were starting to crap out. It would send lights into random seizures. The remedy? Screaming and hitting. Well, perhaps the screaming could of been done without. It was a 48/96 but it still was bad. We could only control it with the sliders. Had to patch any circuit over 96 to one unused slider, that process took about five minutes. There were only four pages of submasters and page four sub 6 would never save. The blackout button was a switch. There was no noticeable warning on the monochrome monitor. Almost all control had to be manual. I don't know why it hated us so much or why it was such a pain but it was. I am so glad it is gone now, although, I do kind of miss hating on it. It added extra stress to my life and I love stress. It add spice to things. But I love the Ion and have no complaints so far.


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## MaxS (Dec 14, 2009)

We have an Express 48-96 sans-Emphasis, which would be all fine and dandy if we didn't rent large amounts of moving lights for every show. (Just wrapped up Les Mis about a month ago and used tons of SmartColors and High End 575 CMYs.) The trackpad is also broken and erratic, and we have problems with some of the individual channel sliders. We end up having to rent a Zero88 Fat Frog for the movers, and running two boards is inconvenient. I'm trying to lobby for an Ion, but seeing as the financial oversight for the venue is such that we can't even get a rigging inspection or reapply fireproofing to our expired soft goods, somehow I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon. The last substantial amount of funding put into it was a donation in 2001 from an enterprising CEO of a national company headquartered in the city.


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## KeepOnTruckin (Dec 14, 2009)

I had to use a Strand Mantrix from 1980. What a crock of sh*t. The soft patch keypad didnt work, the board would dump the submaster memory if it was bumped at all, and it overheated if left on more than an hour. Oh and it is 4 feet long but the window is only 2 feet wide, so if i am on the right side of the board then I can't see.

The Express Trackpad was just a big piece of fail in my opinion, it never worked well. The Expression at least had those 2 big wheels that you could turn, or you could plug in a mouse and use that to move the automated lights.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Dec 14, 2009)

expression + emphasis server + dance show tech week = crashing every night during programming. it was enough to make me want to push it out the booth window. we ended up using our insight 3 to do the show. thank god the things are probably going to ETC to get check-ups over winter break. if it were me, i'd just get an ion or eos and move our department forward. if only...
a few years ago i got to program on a strand board that was literally falling apart (don't remember what model it was). i was able to actually pick up the banks of channel sliders at the top of the board. the wheel also caused the board to go crazy if it moved, so they was tape over it to keep it in place. the director actually freaked out at me for even asking about the tape, worried i would crash the board :/


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## shiben (Dec 14, 2009)

We have an Ion, and I really dont have any complaints about it, for what we use it for, anything more complicated would be overkill, and anything named Innovator would get beaten with a stick (woops, already done that to 2)


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## chris325 (Dec 14, 2009)

shiben said:


> and anything named Innovator would get beaten with a stick (woops, already done that to 2)



Fellow Leviton users, I feel your pain.

Pretty much everything in my high school's auditorium is Colortran, and as I've gained more experience in lighting, I've begun to dislike their products more and more. Over the last 2 shows I've designed the i96 dimmers and Innovator 600 have managed to fail me a total of 6 times, one of them in the middle of a show. The monitors on the board are giving out, and if the board isn't hard cleared on a regular basis it will freeze. I don't know how many times I've told directors "Hold on, the show's _still_ loading." And the trackball is completely useless. I felt really bad for the actors when the board lost control over just about every single channel in the auditorium for an entire act opening night. The board freezing has become a common occurance during rehersals. Looks like we may be aquiring an Element or Ion soon, so its time here may be finally coming to an end.

It's kind of funny to think about how the most expensive computer in the school is also the only one that uses floppy disks.


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## Grog12 (Dec 14, 2009)

Anvilx said:


> I hate trying to make little changes or label my cues for my etc express 24/48.
> I have to save to floppy>open floppy on my dads computer> transfer the contents to a usb drive> open the show file on my pc> edit the show file>write that to the usb drive>head back to my dads pc> write from usb to the floppy> mount the floppy with the console.​What a waste of time.
> 
> Plus I wish show files were txt read/write-able, it would make my life so much easier.



I'm a little confused why you have to use the OE to edit your cues on an express. I understand the labeling portion but why the editing?


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## coldnorth57 (Dec 14, 2009)

The board it elf I am now it is over 4 year starting to like the board it is a Marquee BUT the help file and opeator manual is so bad I went frok m a Strand GSX to this Marquee and WOW what the heck is a look and attibuts??? well i had a lot of reading between the lines and going over and reading the Strand Pallet help


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## g15 (Dec 14, 2009)

we have an Express 24/48 with Emphasis. Not really any complaints about the Express but I could go on for days about Emphasis:

-We have lost countless amounts of stuff from it crashing while programming. 
-Lags like crazy when pressing bump buttons...or doing anything for that matter.
-we're getting some strange DLL error...haven't looked into it but it probably explains some of the issues.

the list really just goes on and on...

but we're pretty sure it's getting replaced with an Ion in the very near future!

end rant!

-Danny


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## MillburyAuditorium (Dec 15, 2009)

Synchronize said:


> We have a Leigh Millennium at my school and its such an old desk that there is a buildup of dust or something in the grandmaster slider and it never goes to Full. It bounces between 99 and 98 when the slider is all the way up. Not a show stopper, but it bugs the crap out of me. The other thing is that its a memory console with two scene capability and has two DMX universes. It has an A/B fade and a C/D fade so it has go, hold, clear, etc. times two. Hit the wrong Go button and you're good as screwed without making it look even worse that the lights not changing when they're supposed to in the first place.
> 
> Good thing it crapped out on me this weekend right before a show. Maybe the school will finally fork out for a new one. Spend some $8,000,000 a year and can't find a dime for theatre.



Same thing with our Status! it doesn't have a Go or Hold button, you push the sliders up to activate the cue/two scene operation. And if you move them when not intended to your screwed and only way we know how to get control back is to flip the Two-Scene/Multiscene switch. Which makes all active lights go out then come back on as the board wants them too.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 15, 2009)

There really isn't anything I don't like about our Express, it just isn't meant to be used with more than two movers.

Now, the Emphasis, its really rather worthless except for the ease of saving and loading shows. 


However it's very possible that that all will be replaced with an Ion in a years time.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Dec 15, 2009)

To whoever mentioned Leviton.

Goodie for us we have a FULL ColorTran system ^^'
Personally I don't see much of a problem with our fixtures, they aren't the best, but the all have shutters, one Far Cyc can light up the whole stage. Although the color bars are horrible. The dimmer rack, a i96 is pretty nice actually, nice desighn too. Spacers every few slots, No complaints there.
Oh but dont get my started on Leviton boards... I think they should stick with home controls 

I am going to be racking (correct use? xD) the administrations heads off to let us go through ETC and our Leviton Guy. (Funny, our board craped out last year, so Leviton guy comes in, takes it for half the year to fix it. And lets us borrow his personal Expression 3 xD That should definatly say something, heh.


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## Jinglish (Dec 15, 2009)

Our drama department bought an Innovator 24/48 when they started converting the old cafetorium into a real theater over the summer of '06. We don't even bother using the cue system because everything just ends up getting deleted anyway; all of our shows are programmed into subs. Our i48 Quad rack is also noisier than hell (and right next to the stage, so it's quite audible during shows), and five or six of its dimmers don't seem to work properly for some unknown reason. I guess this is what you get when you have a drama head who hears that the lighting techs would like a mover or DMX toys and then goes and buys two 150W Martin 812's. 

I'm actually _hoping_ that our board gives us more problems soon, just so it can be replaced with an Element or a Basic Palette II. I think it may have deleted a submaster during our last show, so maybe my wish will come true...


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## xander (Dec 16, 2009)

I think it would be interesting to steer this conversation away from "What's broken on my board" to more of a "What features/design/syntax/etc do I not like about my properly functioning board."

For instance:
I am using a Strand 520i right now that has the worst color buttons on it. The last 520i and 550i I used didn't have this problem, so I am not sure why this one does, but the majority of the keys (everything except the 0-9, Rec functions, and display buttons) are a dark gray with light gray writing. Um...how am I suppose to read them in the darkness of tech!? It's fine for the keys I use the most (which ironically are the ones that are white with gray writing, therefore readable) because I know where they are and don't need to read them. But things like Sub Page, or Bump Mode, or the FX functions, when I occasionally have to find them, it's near impossible.

-Tim


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## Grog12 (Dec 16, 2009)

gafftapegreenia said:


> There really isn't anything I don't like about our Express, it just isn't meant to be used with more than two movers.



Originally it wasn't meant to be used with movers period.


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## Travis (Dec 17, 2009)

Our Light board was totally screwed up by a summer program that knew nothing about lighting and tried to use it. Still fixing it after at least 6 months.


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## mstaylor (Dec 17, 2009)

What in the world did they do to it?


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## w3st0n21 (Dec 17, 2009)

Right now, i hate nothing about our console. (we just got the element). but our old console, the strand LightBoard M, i have a whole list of problems. the biggest thing is everytime we turned it on we would have to hit the reset button on the back for it to work properly. that stupid thing. urg, i get frustrated thinking about it and we dont even use it anymore!! hahaha


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## mstutzman (Dec 17, 2009)

So far I am truly in love with my new Ion, but aestheticly it is a big black punch box. The matt black takes on all kinds of finger prints, and the option for a little light is in the worst possible palce. It is not sleak, nor ergonaomic in any way. No wrist support at all. It also bothers me that the LCD screens on the main console and the fader wing do not match in color. Last but not least the option to attach the fader wing makes it incredibly difficult to carry without stressing that joint/connection.

Why would you design such a better console than the Obsession II, but then put it in in some scrap metal painted black?


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## candyfreak (Jan 25, 2010)

> > We have a Leigh Millennium at my school and its such an old desk that there is a buildup of dust or something in the grandmaster slider and it never goes to Full. It bounces between 99 and 98 when the slider is all the way up. Not a show stopper, but it bugs the crap out of me. The other thing is that its a memory console with two scene capability and has two DMX universes. It has an A/B fade and a C/D fade so it has go, hold, clear, etc. times two. Hit the wrong Go button and you're good as screwed without making it look even worse that the lights not changing when they're supposed to in the first place.
> 
> 
> ETC Expression and Express do this too, it's not an uncommon thing. Simple fix: Pay attention to which button you're pressing



I just finished off a 2 week run of grease, and I did this a lot more than once (I tend to not look at the console when I hit go). oh... and I have an ETC Express 72/144, no real complaints, extremely easy to use. Just that it's outdated, and heavy (a problem when moving the board into the house for tech rehearsal.)


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## Tex (Jan 25, 2010)

Just finished a convention using a Strand Pallette VL. We were excited at first that we had a very new, very sexy console. Then we started programming. This thing locked up about every three hours and when rebooted, would retain all of the programming, but none of the lights would respond. The vendor spent hours with us trying to correct the problem, but it never worked right. We spent a few hours hanging truss, conventionals, 4 Studio Spots, 4 studio colors, 5 Alpha Spot 300, and 3 Selador strips. The only thing that worked reliably were the conventionals and two of the Alphas. I never loved my Innovator until this weekend. 
This was probably a bad console issue, but it soured me on Strand products.
We also had to replace the wireless DMX units we were using (City Theatrical) with cable when they wouldn't work from 100', but that's another rant...


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## chris325 (Jan 25, 2010)

Jinglish said:


> I'm actually _hoping_ that our board gives us more problems soon, just so it can be replaced with an Element or a Basic Palette II. I think it may have deleted a submaster during our last show, so maybe my wish will come true...



We were lucky (or unlucky) enough that our i96 dimmers and Innovator 600 decided to fail during a catch-up rehearsal between two weekends of shows. If it had failed around 24 hours later (when the show was being reviewed for Illinois High School Theatre Festival) we would have an excuse to replace it. (We ended up being selected for the festival.) Considering that a lighting failure would have certainly made the difference between us making it and not making it (We ended up being selected for the festival,) I'm sure we'd have that shiny new Element in the booth if it had failed.

I guess I'll just have to deal with the green, purple, and yellow paperweight for now.


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## avkid (Jan 25, 2010)

It refuses to understand that new fangled DMX stuff.


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## Morpheus (Jan 25, 2010)

avkid said:


> It refuses to understand that new fangled DMX stuff.



haha!

There's an old controller we have in our basement lab that looks similar...

there are only 6 dimmers it controls, but they're on channels 18-24, because as the channel faders kept dying, they kept plugging the control cable into the next slot


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## SAWYeR (Jan 26, 2010)

I can confidently say I enjoy eating dirt more than I do programming the SmartFade, or SmartFail, DumbFade, SuckFade, SuckFail, etc in DePaul's blackbox. What an awful console. Howver, give me our Ion or my company's Hog III and I'm a happy camper xD


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## DuckJordan (Jan 26, 2010)

its horizon, Effects controls are annoying to work with, if your lights go miss hap its annoying to have to select the numbers with the mouse and set them the appropriate level, its also very touchy in the way that "if I am running with another program, then i will randomly fail" . but other than that i would use it again simple to get running and ok to program


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## CSCTech (Jan 26, 2010)

The more I read about other boards and locking up, crashing etc.. I am starting to like my Status 24/48. It has never froze or crashed on us. The only reason I want to hook a battery up and fry the thing and watch it burn in hell is because it has physical problems with it, half the knobs are missing, the battery circuit to the RAM is fried so it will not save anything when it is turned off, we are still looking for the right memory cartridge to fit the thing to save the show and a basic setup if..when the board decides to turn off and dump itself.
And the fact that it has 48 control channels and we have 96 dimmers.


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## chris325 (Jan 26, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> I am starting to like my Status 24/48. It has never froze or crashed on us.



Wait... you've got a Colortran console that's never frozen or crashed? In my experiences using an Innovator 600, I've had it crash/freeze/fail 7 times in the few shows I've programmed on it. And it gets hard cleared on a fairly regular basis (I know a factory reset isn't supposed to be done more than once in 6 months, but it becomes prone to freezing not too long after a reset.)


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## DuckJordan (Jan 26, 2010)

chris325 said:


> Wait... you've got a Colortran console that's never frozen or crashed? In my experiences using an Innovator 600, I've had it crash/freeze/fail 7 times in the few shows I've programmed on it. And it gets hard cleared on a fairly regular basis (I know a factory reset isn't supposed to be done more than once in 6 months, but it becomes prone to freezing not too long after a reset.)




to add to colortran consoles, we had an old innovator and it was prone to crashing which it led to its ultimate fail of loosing any control over the lights and itself. we just unplugged it and from then became a prop which we scrap for a computer fan. although we still do have an old NSI 2 scene preset board.


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## CSCTech (Jan 26, 2010)

Nope, never. Odd I know  But the thing is a piece of garbage anyways. But never had it freeze. Maybe because we do things manually? I just move all the channels with fixtures on them down so I can have all fixtures on the channel fader since the board has only 48 control channels and we have 96 dimmers, so if not I cannot use the fixture, and have all houselights on 48, Proscenium 47 and stairs 46. After those are all patched I make the subs I need and go from there.

Unless you can count this, But I do not know if this is supposed to happen or not-

I do not use cues because-
If I make a cue, any cue, doesn't even have to make a light change, if I move the scene faders up to activate the cue, I no longer have any intensity control. The faders, bump buttons and keypad itnensity control is locked out until I flip the switch to 2-Scene then back to Multiscene. 
I kind of want to try 2-Scene to see how hard it is xD

But yeah, unless that isnt supposed to happen, then never had it freeze.


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## Morpheus (Jan 27, 2010)

When I take the tape off, the VIS is still there


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## Tex (Jan 28, 2010)

Morpheus said:


> When I take the tape off, the VIS is still there


LOL!
Try paint thinner...


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## MarhabanMicah (Jan 28, 2010)

At my high school, we have an ETC Expression 1. It's very old-we got it the year I was born. It also has a click wheel. A neighboring high school has the new Ion, which after their tech senior graduates will get absolutely NO use. I feel bad for one of the freshman, who shows a great deal of interest in lighting. It's a shame that he won't have a good lighting board to learn off of, considering the way that lighting is headed in a new direction.


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## CSCTech (Jan 28, 2010)

MarhabanMicah said:


> At my high school, we have an ETC Expression 1. It's very old-we got it the year I was born. It also has a click wheel. A neighboring high school has the new Ion, which after their tech senior graduates will get absolutely NO use. I feel bad for one of the freshman, who shows a great deal of interest in lighting. It's a shame that he won't have a good lighting board to learn off of, considering the way that lighting is headed in a new direction.



I know how you feel, I hate teaching people on our Status, I keep getting off into side things about normal boards


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## chris325 (Jan 28, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> I know how you feel, I hate teaching people on our Status, I keep getting off into side things about normal boards



I know exactly what you're talking about. Me: "And here is the floppy disk drive..." My 'apprentice:' "This thing uses floppy disks?!?!" And then it froze.

The track ball, floppy disks, and pretty much everything else about the Innovator 600 make it look pretty pathetic when compared to a modern board.

I've gotten used to working with the oldest and most expensive computer in the school district. So have many others on here, I'm sure.


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## SHARYNF (Jan 28, 2010)

It is sad that some of the younger folks here seem to get so negative when they are working with "vintage" gear. In High School and even College, you are learning how to learn and concepts. Does it really matter that the device uses a track ball vs a mouse? is it really that big a deal that it uses a floppy disk vs a memory stick? 

It seems that unless you are working with the very latest and most expensive gear, there is little interest. Technology moves quickly but the underlying concepts don't, if you go on professionally you may very well find that if you get into smaller venues some of these vintage boards are still around doing excellent productions.

Just remember that the latest and greatest today is going to be vintage in the near future, so you are continually going to need to understand concepts
vs a specific system this way by understanding how thing work and are designed, when you are faced with the next generation you will be able to learn how to use it properly

It is just like flying, there are a lot of jet/turbo prop pilots who learned on a Cessna 150 

Sharyn


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## zuixro (Jan 28, 2010)

We have an Expression with Emphasis, and the only complaint I have is that it's not a Ion. I know the Express(ion) line really well, and I'd like to learn something new.


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## mstaylor (Jan 28, 2010)

Well put Sharyn, too many want to throw away perfectly good equipment because it has some age on it. I work in several different theatres in my area, two have Expresses, one has an Expression, one has an ION and three still have EC two scene presets. I can do an excellent production with any of them.


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## CSCTech (Jan 28, 2010)

Well, I kind of sort of not really like our Status. But the thing is, it's half broken  We can't even use two-scene mode so anyone I teach I have to teach using only subs to run shows, and with the, pretty much no features of the Status, it seems kind of useless. But I suppose it isn't really because like you said its all about the concepts. I have mastered the Status inside and out I could program it and run the show blindfolded so to speak. And I just have a good general knowledge of theatre. If you can do the basic functions of the Status or any old board, you can on any new one.
The only difference between say, our Status and a..Expression 3 is that the software is just simply better so it doesnt die every two minutes (lol) and a few features. It's all looks and hardware really.

I WISH my board had a floppy drive. Where the heck do I find a PCMCIA card or something ?_?


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## Jackalope (Jan 28, 2010)

We just got a light pallete live (strand) so far all I've mastered is the on/off switch and programing looks and cues in "cue only" mode. Anyone else have any pitfalls I need to look out for/avoid?


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## Morpheus (Jan 29, 2010)

SHARYNF said:


> It is sad that some of the younger folks here seem to get so negative when they are working with "vintage" gear. In High School and even College, you are learning how to learn and concepts. Does it really matter that the device uses a track ball vs a mouse? is it really that big a deal that it uses a floppy disk vs a memory stick?
> 
> It seems that unless you are working with the very latest and most expensive gear, there is little interest. Technology moves quickly but the underlying concepts don't, if you go on professionally you may very well find that if you get into smaller venues some of these vintage boards are still around doing excellent productions.
> 
> ...


I agree... At my college, as a senior member of our tech crew, it sometimes falls on me to help newer people understand some of the general concepts... I'd MUCH prefer showing them how to use our mackie 1402 VLZ than the new M7 we have.

Same with our light board (the Vision): It's a great thing to learn with, especially after you get used to the expression 2 (again, high tech we've got)... at least it teaches you to be on your toes!


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## billn (Jan 29, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> I do not use cues because-
> If I make a cue, any cue, doesn't even have to make a light change, if I move the scene faders up to activate the cue, I no longer have any intensity control. The faders, bump buttons and keypad itnensity control is locked out until I flip the switch to 2-Scene then back to Multiscene.
> I kind of want to try 2-Scene to see how hard it is xD
> 
> ...


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## billn (Jan 29, 2010)

The two theatres where I do most of my lighting designs use the EDI Bijou. There are two primary things that I dislike: 

1) You cannot record/link effects to cues, only submasters.
2) Unlike the predecessor board, when editing a cue, you cannot use the channel faders to grab a level and bring it down. All reductions in level have to be done via the keypad. 

Bill


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## gcpsoundlight (Jan 29, 2010)

Someone else has probably already said this, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE JANDS EVENT!!!
Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!

Enough Said!


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## LekoBoy (Jan 29, 2010)

gcpsoundlight said:


> and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!


DBO button? Doesn't every board have that?


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## DuckJordan (Jan 29, 2010)

gcpsoundlight said:


> Someone else has probably already said this, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE THE JANDS EVENT!!!
> Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!!
> 
> Enough Said!



that button would be the BO light most boards have them if they don't they are very low end and probably weren't designed to be used in a theater venue.


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## gcpsoundlight (Jan 29, 2010)

None of the strand desks have one, and I don't think that they would be classed as "Low End"


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## Les (Jan 29, 2010)

This may be true (haven't used a Strand board in a long time) but it's not an uncommon feature on *any* board, even low-end ones. My $150 American DJ DP-8A had a blackout button. Then, so did the Expression 3 my high school had, as did any other light board I've worked with recently. Very few uses for such a button -- when do you really need a sudden blackout? Wouldn't you just program it in to a cue? If a cue misfired and you needed a blackout for a scene change, wouldn't it just be better to slide the GM? It's still not an uncommon feature to see.


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## chris325 (Jan 29, 2010)

Well, it's not much more difficult to just press 1 [THRU] 400 [AT] 0 [ENTER]. Or, when programming, bring up a previous blackout cue.

Although it does surprise me that Strand doesn't have blackout buttons on any of its consoles. Not a show-stopper, but it just seems odd.


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## Les (Jan 29, 2010)

chris325 said:


> Well, it's not much more difficult to just press 1 [THRU] 400 [AT] 0 [ENTER]. Or, when programming, bring up a previous blackout cue.



It's a little more difficult to do that 

When I'm programming an ETC Express/ion and I need a full blackout cue, I just hit the clear button above the faders (takes the console out of cue) and then record that as the next cue. Works for me and it's easy. 
I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."


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## Anvilx (Jan 29, 2010)

Grog12 said:


> I'm a little confused why you have to use the OE to edit your cues on an express. I understand the labeling portion but why the editing?



Wow I have not followed this thread!

You have to use the OE if you want to edit and take something out. You can add things to a cue on the console you just can't remove anything without deleting the cue and starting over.


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## chris325 (Jan 29, 2010)

Les said:


> I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
> That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."



I'm pretty sure (at least on an Innovator 600) that you can't use the blackout button to record a blackout cue. However, I believe that the GM does alter the contents of the cue being recorded (i.e. pulling it to 0 for a blackout.) It's been almost a month since I've used it, so I may be wrong.


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## masterelectrician2112 (Jan 30, 2010)

gcpsoundlight said:


> Stupid menue layout, stupid assigns, stupid recording, and it has a button that TURNS EVERY LIGHT OFF!!! Enough Said!


 
Yup, that would be your BO button, and I couldn't imagine the express without one! As of yet, only one show has been run on that board using cues. I usually run everything off of submasters and individual channel faders. I *need* that blackout button. .1 seconds! I know I can't slide the GM that fast!


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## Les (Jan 30, 2010)

masterelectrician2112 said:


> Yup, that would be your BO button, and I couldn't imagine the express without one! As of yet, only one show has been run on that board using cues. I usually run everything off of submasters and individual channel faders. I *need* that blackout button. .1 seconds! I know I can't slide the GM that fast!




My goodness, why don't you write cues?!?


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## mstaylor (Jan 30, 2010)

Sounds like he is old school like me. I have never written a cue list on an express or expression. I'm an old two scene guy and am used to not having the luxury.


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## Morpheus (Jan 30, 2010)

Les said:


> It's a little more difficult to do that
> 
> When I'm programming an ETC Express/ion and I need a full blackout cue, I just hit the clear button above the faders (takes the console out of cue) and then record that as the next cue. Works for me and it's easy.
> I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
> That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."


I just tried it on the ETC EOL...
it records as if the GM is at full...
HOWEVER, you can press [Enter][Enter] to select all the currently captured channels, and then use the wheel/trackpad....


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## chris325 (Jan 31, 2010)

Morpheus said:


> HOWEVER, you can press [Enter][Enter] to select all the currently captured channels, and then use the wheel/trackpad....



Would this work on an Innovator 600?


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## Morpheus (Jan 31, 2010)

chris325 said:


> Would this work on an Innovator 600?



I don't know.
Apparently, my laptop's Operating System is not 'adequate' for the Innovator Off-Line editor.
(Apparently, someone at Levitron needs to get Windows 7)

Anyway, this is something that you should be able to test your self, just find the Off-Line software.
Innovator Series > Entertainment Lighting Controls > Commercial Lighting > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products


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## thelightguy87 (Jan 31, 2010)

i just started designing at a high school that built a new theater. And they put in an express 12/24 with emphasis. Although it doesn't bother me too much, being that i only do 1 show year on it. The one thing that bugs me the most is that there is no hard button for Dimmer. I use an express 72/144 at my regular theater, and i'm so used to having the dimmer button next to the channel button. Instead its Channel and Fixture. and the Dimmer button became a soft key. Other than that its been a good console for us so far. They've only had it for 3 years now.


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## Tracyu (Feb 1, 2010)

billn said:


> The two theatres where I do most of my lighting designs use the EDI Bijou. There are two primary things that I dislike:
> 
> 1) You cannot record/link effects to cues, only submasters.
> 2) Unlike the predecessor board, when editing a cue, you cannot use the channel faders to grab a level and bring it down. All reductions in level have to be done via the keypad.
> ...


 
Hi Bill,
If you want to tie an effect to a cue on the Bijou you can write 2 macros (one to load the effect to a sub and one to unload it) then go to the cue list screen and assign the macro to the cue you want the effect active in and then assign the second macro to the cue you want it off. Make sure the effect sub is up. 

Unless you are using the CF all the bijou's outputs are HTP.

If you ever need any help with the Bijou, feel free to give us a call here at the factory (503) 645-5533

Tracy Underhill
EDI


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## chris325 (Feb 1, 2010)

Morpheus said:


> I don't know.
> Apparently, my laptop's Operating System is not 'adequate' for the Innovator Off-Line editor.
> (Apparently, someone at Levitron needs to get Windows 7)
> 
> ...



Apparently, someone at Leviton also should consider investing in Vista. The Innovator's offline editor wasn't compatible with it. I'll try this little trick the next time I use the board itself.


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## DuckJordan (Feb 1, 2010)

as far as not compatable all of windows stuff is backwards compatable, you just need to select to run in (x) operating system, if i remember right you can run in xp, 98, or 95 mode just the individual program.


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## Morpheus (Feb 1, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> as far as not compatable all of windows stuff is backwards compatable, you just need to select to run in (x) operating system, if i remember right you can run in xp, 98, or 95 mode just the individual program.



right click -> detect compatability issues



And it seems the levitron works the same way.


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## kiwitechgirl (Feb 2, 2010)

Les said:


> More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
> That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."



The Strand 500-series desks have an option in the setup screen (IIRC!) which says something like "GM level affect RECORD" and you can switch it on if you want it....very useful.....

However, our 520 has just been replaced with an ETC Ion and the only two things I'm not loving right now are:
1. The ability to alter an effect specific to one unit - if I have all the Macs doing circles, I can't make one do smaller circles to avoid set/audience/whatever within that effect - it has to have its own effect which specifies a smaller circle. The 500-series desks could do that with ease....although I believe this is something a future software upgrade will hopefully include.
2. The lack of a DMX in. We often used to hook up a "handles" desk for plotting sessions with certain designers who liked to be able to shove faders - it's not a huge deal but it'd be nice.

Other than that the Ion is proving to be all we hoped it would be!


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## masterelectrician2112 (Feb 2, 2010)

Les said:


> My goodness, why don't you write cues?!?


 


mstaylor said:


> Sounds like he is old school like me. I have never written a cue list on an express or expression. I'm an old two scene guy and am used to not having the luxury.


 
I have used cues for one show so far. I would actually love to use cues for every show! The TD/director/drama teacher doesn't want me to program cues and somebody else run them because she believes that the less inexperienced techs need to know what happened and what had to be done when you pressed the GO button. I am all for them. She's starting to give me a little more slack, so I will start using them more often I think.


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## Les (Feb 2, 2010)

masterelectrician2112 said:


> I have used cues for one show so far. I would actually love to use cues for every show! The TD/director/drama teacher doesn't want me to program cues and somebody else run them because she believes that the less inexperienced techs need to know what happened and what had to be done when you pressed the GO button. I am all for them. She's starting to give me a little more slack, so I will start using them more often I think.



Yeah I can agree with that to an extent. In a high school, anyone involved with the lighting should be well-rounded. Ideally, each student should be given the chance to program the light board, run it manually and run it off a cue stack -- because let's face it. Manual control is a dying art, everyone uses cues these days. 

So I agree as long as the teacher's plan is "run manual first, then learn programming, then learn to run cue stacks". That process shouldn't take too long to accomplish either.

Many people see running lights off a go button as the easy way, but in reality, getting it all programmed and timed properly is a difficult task. Arguably more difficult than pushing faders up, because with manual control you have a lot more leeway. When you're working with cues, you have to have those times just right because in many cases you are committed to them come showtime. IMO, everyone should learn it all for the full experience.


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## masterelectrician2112 (Feb 3, 2010)

Les, I completely agree. Couldn't have put it better myself. I learned that programing cues is also difficult in its own way. Well put! Thank you.


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## Morpheus (Feb 3, 2010)

Anvilx said:


> Wow I have not followed this thread!
> 
> You have to use the OE if you want to edit and take something out. You can add things to a cue on the console you just can't remove anything without deleting the cue and starting over.



wait, what do you mean "take something out"?


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## SamAU (Feb 4, 2010)

For anyone who has had the joy of using a LSC maxim with a patpad, those patpads are shithouse....


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## skienblack (Feb 4, 2010)

Does anyone know when using a ETC RFR with a Ion if you can call up channels from the remote? We don't think it is possible, but that would seem like a very limiting factor on ETC's part. Any help would be super!


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## mrtrudeau23 (Feb 4, 2010)

i occasionally work on an ETC Express 72/144 where someone decided it was a good idea to hit the trackpad with something heavy. now, even doing something simple like capturing channels, it just bounces to the intensity. i'm pretty sure the sensor is broken and it activates with just the slightest air pressure difference. it is one of the most annoying things when trying to cue a show, other than the ion not having a release button or a clear fader button...


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## dcollins (Feb 5, 2010)

Les said:


> It's a little more difficult to do that
> 
> When I'm programming an ETC Express/ion and I need a full blackout cue, I just hit the clear button above the faders (takes the console out of cue) and then record that as the next cue. Works for me and it's easy.
> I don't think DBO being activated and then recording a cue would record the cue as a blackout. It would simply record the cue as what 'would' be up on stage. I believe this is correct... Someone correct me if it isn't. More along those lines -- does the level of the GM get written into a cue? I would think that if you brought everything to full, took the GM to 88% and recorded it as a cue, then ran the cue with the GM at 100%, the lights would be at 100%, not 88%.
> That would REALLY make my life easier for when the director or lighting designer says "Ok, I want the next cue to look exactly like the last cue, only about half as bright."



I've done this on an older ETC board - a microvision FX - the GM slider influences levels recorded to a cue, I haven't tried on my express 48/96 though.


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## avalentino (Feb 5, 2010)

skienblack said:


> Does anyone know when using a ETC RFR with a Ion if you can call up channels from the remote? We don't think it is possible, but that would seem like a very limiting factor on ETC's part. Any help would be super!



Yes, of course you can. That is the default behavior. If you are having trouble, give tech serve a call. 
a


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