# Mixer Advice Wanted: Repair or Replace?



## Lambda (Jan 13, 2012)

We currently use a Mackie SR32-4 mixer. It's been here a long time and it's starting to show it. As long as I've been here we've always had one bad channel, but in the past year we lost another, and last month, one more. This week, I noticed at a rehearsal that the left main bus had no signal, and didn't show in the meters. We run a mono system, but still that's not good. The problem went away after an hour or two and hasn't come back, but obviously I can't ignore this. 
It's becoming apparent that we need to do something about this. An unreliable mixer is no good, and a total sound failure in the middle of a show is the stuff of nightmares. I'm trying to decide whether to buy a new mixer, or send this one out for repair. 

As for budget, we have a grant this school year that applies to the whole department. I know most of it is being used for lighting, and I will be able to use some for sound, and some might go to a multi-media system, but as of yet there are no solid figures. I don't think I'll end up with more than three thousand for sound, all said and done. In addition to whatever I do with the mixer, I need some left over to spend on microphones, new antennas and UHF distributors, and other equipment. 

I've had recommended to me the Mackie 3204-VLZ3, and it seems like it will fit our needs well, an analog mixer that has some integrated effects/compression and allows for digital USB outs if we ever want them. This can be had for $1000-1500. 
I really think that a new one is the way to go, unless I can be sure that our SR32 will last as long as it has so far, after a repair. If we're going to replace it, now's the time. It will be a while until there will be enough budget again.

Do you think it would be cheaper to have ours repaired? Is it worth it to do so? If not, do you think the 3204 is a good mixer for our 700-seat high school auditorium?


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## avkid (Jan 13, 2012)

Is your current SR32-4 American or Chinese made?


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## chausman (Jan 13, 2012)

avkid said:


> Is your current SR32-4 American or Chinese made?


 
Does it make a difference? No, never mind...let's not go down _that_ path.

If it were me, and you had the budget to get a new board now, I would. Not just because new stuff is fun, but like you said, failures mid show, or not having a board at all are horrible options. And, the repair might require a lot more parts and labor cost then it is worth to you.


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## avkid (Jan 13, 2012)

chausman said:


> Does it make a difference?


 Absolutely, I would repair an early to mid 90's made in Washington unit until it bursts into flame.


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## Lambda (Jan 13, 2012)

avkid said:


> Absolutely, I would repair an early to mid 90's made in Washington unit until it bursts into flame.



As would I. No chance I'd throw it away, if we get a new one (I most likely will) I'll try to repair it myself and use the board for location events instead of the low-quality soundcraft we use now, or mark it surplus and keep it for personal use. I've got some electronics skill but there's no way I'd risk our only irreplaceable mixer to a DIY repair unless it was surplus already. 
I'll check it for manufacturing info. I'm guessing it would be on the bottom of the unit, correct? I'd also like to know the manufacture date, I think it was purchased when it was just released, but nobody's been around long enough to know.


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## DuckJordan (Jan 13, 2012)

The problem is going to require quite a bit of money enough to buy a new console. I have the 24 input version and had the left go out. 50$ just to check it out and sources tell me the fix is a replacement of a board and not just parts off of the board. 600$ was the estimate. This is me in the Midwest where shipping is cheap.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## avkid (Jan 13, 2012)

It should be on the back next to the IEC connector.


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## FMEng (Jan 14, 2012)

Before assuming the console is dying, try cleaning the insert jack contacts on the failing channels and busses. Spray some Caig DeoxIT into the jack and then exercise the contacts by repeatedly plugging and unplugging a connector into them. 

Dirty normal contacts on inserts is a common problem that can happen on any console, not just Mackies.


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## venuetech (Jan 14, 2012)

I think you might consider a new mixer.(if the exercise does not solve the problem) I replaced my SR32-4 with a allen & heath gl2200 a number of years ago. I had macki repair a dead channel, but the repair job only lasted a year. shipping in my neck of the woods is very costly. The GL2200 has individual channel strips that even I with all my thumbs can replace. but it does look like the new macki would serve your needs.


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## MNicolai (Jan 14, 2012)

FMEng said:


> Before assuming the console is dying, try cleaning the insert jack contacts on the failing channels and busses. Spray some Caig DeoxIT into the jack and then exercise the contacts by repeatedly plugging and unplugging a connector into them.
> 
> Dirty normal contacts on inserts is a common problem that can happen on any console, not just Mackies.



I've seen weird things happen on our Mackie 1604VLZ-Pro as a result of someone accidentally plugging something into an Insert jack or only half-plugging something in. I wouldn't be surprised if that caused problems like have been described.

If it's not a simple fix and if there's a chance you have the money to buy anew, you may want to do so while you can still afford it. A repair might do it, but eventually the console will reach the end of its days either by a slow wearing down of the components or by a catastrophic failure; either way, if it looks like it's moving toward mixer heaven, it's better for that failure to happen your terms than on its.


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## ccm1495 (Jan 14, 2012)

We have the same board bought around 2001. It sometimes has a problem with the right channel on the main out. With all of the pan knobs in the center it will randomly decide to attenuate the right main out channel so that it is about half what is coming out of the left. We are in the proses of getting it repaired if possible. Right now this is our backup board. Is a great simple rugged board.


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## DrPinto (Jan 14, 2012)

MNicolai said:


> I've seen weird things happen on our Mackie 1604VLZ-Pro as a result of someone accidentally plugging something into an Insert jack or only half-plugging something in. I wouldn't be surprised if that caused problems like have been described.
> 
> If it's not a simple fix and if there's a chance you have the money to buy anew, you may want to do so while you can still afford it. A repair might do it, but eventually the console will reach the end of its days either by a slow wearing down of the components or by a catastrophic failure; either way, if it looks like it's moving toward mixer heaven, it's better for that failure to happen your terms than on its.


 
There's nothing wrong with not plugging a 1/4" plug all the way into an insert. That's called a "split out".


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## DrPinto (Jan 14, 2012)

My personal experience with Mackie equipment is that the USA boards are great until you need service or parts. Then you might as well throw them away. Mackie is HORRIBLE when it comes to replacement parts. 

I needed a simple cover plate for the back of my 1604-VLZ Pro. I called Mackie and was told that that they didn't have one. I figured that was because the board was older. I then asked them to just send me a cover plate for a 1604-VLZ3 (it's a current production board and the plates looked very similar). I was told that they they didn't have one for that either and that they stock very few parts and that I should just MAKE MY OWN! I figured that I must be talking to some idiot who just started there, so I tried calling back a few days later and was told the same thing.

I couldn't get a simple plate with 4 screws from them. I was surprised that they wouldn't support their equipment. I was totally disappointed with Mackie and wouldn't buy another board from them again. It's too bad, because it is a nice board, but I'm not going to buy a piece of equipment from a manufacturer that will not support it. 

I would dump your Mackie and buy a new board from someone else.


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## museav (Jan 14, 2012)

Lambda said:


> As for budget, we have a grant this school year that applies to the whole department. I know most of it is being used for lighting, and I will be able to use some for sound, and some might go to a multi-media system, but as of yet there are no solid figures. I don't think I'll end up with more than three thousand for sound, all said and done. In addition to whatever I do with the mixer, I need some left over to spend on microphones, new antennas and UHF distributors, and other equipment.
> 
> I've had recommended to me the Mackie 3204-VLZ3, and it seems like it will fit our needs well, an analog mixer that has some integrated effects/compression and allows for digital USB outs if we ever want them. This can be had for $1000-1500.


I think this indicates you need to do some 'big picture' thinking before making any decisions. Would a new console affect other important or critical purchases? Would you be making a decision based greatly on the available budget rather than on what might really be appropriate? Might you be able to get other funding for a new console if the current mixer actually became a problem?

Other than the added compression and effects, in terms of the the basic functionality and controls the 3204-VLZ3 seems pretty much a direct replacement for your current SR32.4.


Lambda said:


> Do you think it would be cheaper to have ours repaired? Is it worth it to do so?


Until you have a better idea of what is wrong with your current mixer this seems to be purely guessing. Some Mackie's are known to have some common problems that are easily and cheaply fixed, such as the inserts becoming intermittent. Others are known to have ribbon cable issues that can be fixed but cost a little more to get done if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. Or repairing your SR console may cost more than a new one. It might be worth trying some of the simple fixes and if those don't fix the problems then paying some minimal amount to have it looked at to determine what it may cost before making a final decision.


Lambda said:


> If not, do you think the 3204 is a good mixer for our 700-seat high school auditorium?


I have no idea since I also have no idea of what type of events and applications are involved, the users, the expectations and goals, etc.

In general terms, the compression and effects may be beneficial, however the compression is limited to very basic compression (one knob that apparently adjusts the threshold) for just four channels and the four Groups and there is no metering to show whether it is doing anything or the gain reduction being applied. The internal effects require using Aux sends 5/6, leaving just two pre and two pre/post switchable Aux sends, which may or may not be a factor for you. And not a big deal, but I am not a fan of not having mutes for Groups nor of the all or nothing single phantom power switch. But perhaps most importantly, with just two fixed frequency (80Hz and 12kHz) shelf filters and one quasi-parametric (adjustable level and frequency only, no adjustable bandwidth) filters for each channel, I personally would typically prefer better channel EQ even if it meant foregoing the compression and effects.


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## Lambda (Jan 14, 2012)

FMEng said:


> Before assuming the console is dying, try cleaning the insert jack contacts on the failing channels and busses. Spray some Caig DeoxIT into the jack and then exercise the contacts by repeatedly plugging and unplugging a connector into them.
> 
> Dirty normal contacts on inserts is a common problem that can happen on any console, not just Mackies.


 
I wish it were this simple. Channel 4, the first one to go down, we've tried all that, no signal gets through. I suspect the preamp. 17, second one to go down, it's an issue with the fader. The signal gets INTO the strip, prefader aux sends work, we can PFL it, but signal doesn't get past the fader. Move it up and down very fast and sometimes it comes back with a crackle, but cuts out again. 23, last one to go, the signal gets to the preamp, I can see the -20 light in the channel strip (which according to the schematics is directly after the preamp), but can't PFL it or send it anywhere.



museav said:


> I think this indicates you need to do some 'big picture' thinking before making any decisions. Would a new console affect other important or critical purchases? Would you be making a decision based greatly on the available budget rather than on what might really be appropriate? Might you be able to get other funding for a new console if the current mixer actually became a problem?
> 
> In general terms, the compression and effects may be beneficial, however the compression is limited to very basic compression (one knob that apparently adjusts the threshold) for just four channels and the four Groups and there is no metering to show whether it is doing anything or the gain reduction being applied. The internal effects require using Aux sends 5/6, leaving just two pre and two pre/post switchable Aux sends, which may or may not be a factor for you. And not a big deal, but I am not a fan of not having mutes for Groups nor of the all or nothing single phantom power switch. But perhaps most importantly, with just two fixed frequency (80Hz and 12kHz) shelf filters and one quasi-parametric (adjustable level and frequency only, no adjustable bandwidth) filters for each channel, I personally would typically prefer better channel EQ even if it meant foregoing the compression and effects.



I'm not making the decision based solely on budget. however, I am limited by it. I think I'll get about 3 grand, and maybe 4 depending on how much we decide to use for lighting and other. With this mixer about a grand and change, I could definitely go for something higher-end. Although I'd like some new mics, I can work with what we've got if it means being able to afford a good mixer. The reason I say the 3204 is that it was recommended to me, and it seems to fit our needs. I'm completely open to considering other mixers. We use it mainly for plays and musicals, chorus/instruments for mass held in the auditorium, and a couple of concert events a year. As for the effects processors and compression, they weren't a deciding factor. I don't think they're really necessary, though would be neat to have. I agree the compression is pretty basic. I also have in the budget a DBX 1066. 
What mixer would you recommend?


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## chausman (Jan 14, 2012)

DrPinto said:


> There's nothing wrong with not plugging a 1/4" plug all the way into an insert. That's called a "split out".


 
There is when you were trying to plug into the Line In, but "missed". I've done it, and I've seen people do it who have run sound for YEARS do it on consoles they aren't familiar with. My Behringer (Not really a surprise) is the worst offender in that case. I think that is what MNicolai meant.


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## bishopthomas (Jan 14, 2012)

Typically, these kinds of (very common) problems on a Mackie are due to ribbon cable failure. You can open it up and check it out yourself and even replace the ribbon cables if you're handy with these kinds of things, but you will have to remove every single knob cap in order to disassemble the console. Because of this repair costs can be expensive, it's labor intensive and time consuming even though it's not difficult work.

As far as other consoles, have you checked out the Onyx series? I don't remember pricing but if you can get one that meets your needs for your budget I don't think you'll be disappointed. They are quite an improvement over the SR series (I've owned both).


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## FMEng (Jan 14, 2012)

Lambda said:


> I wish it were this simple. Channel 4, the first one to go down, we've tried all that, no signal gets through. I suspect the preamp. 17, second one to go down, it's an issue with the fader. The signal gets INTO the strip, prefader aux sends work, we can PFL it, but signal doesn't get past the fader. Move it up and down very fast and sometimes it comes back with a crackle, but cuts out again. 23, last one to go, the signal gets to the preamp, I can see the -20 light in the channel strip (which according to the schematics is directly after the preamp), but can't PFL it or send it anywhere.


 
That indicates that the problem is the fader itself. I'm not sure if it could be cleaned, and I have not been inside one of these to know whether it's an easy repair project.


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## Lambda (Jan 14, 2012)

FMEng said:


> That indicates that the problem is the fader itself. I'm not sure if it could be cleaned, and I have not been inside one of these to know whether it's an easy repair project.


Yes, I've tried to clean it but that hasn't made a difference. I think it's a problem with the sliding contact on the fader, maybe something got in there and damaged it. I did once pull a x-acto knife blade (!!!) out of one stuck fader, ironically it still works fine after having that in there. 

I've been looking at the Onyx, it seems to be an excellent console that will fit our needs well, and the price is well within our budget at two grand. I'll run that by the TD and department chair and see if they approve.


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