# Unknown Ladder/Scaffold



## MHSTech (May 22, 2007)

I can accross a video where they were using a ladder with a platform. Here is the picture...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/fiestakid88/unknownequipment.jpg

What is the name of it and where can I buy something like it?


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## Logos (May 22, 2007)

Well, It's called a Tallescope. Not being in the US I have no idea where you can buy one but in Aus they are no longer used often. I suspect they might no longer fulfill safety requirements in this country.


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## Footer (May 22, 2007)

Those are what I have called cherry pickers in the past, though my personal definition for a cherry picker is a bucket on a bucket truck. Those can still be found, but most were modified genie buckets put on an A frame type base. I don't know where you could even find one anymore. Call your local genie company or give BMI/your theatrical house of choice and see what they can do for ya. I haven't been in one for a good amount of time.


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## drawstuf99 (May 22, 2007)

Our community theatre has an older, smaller one thats similar but made of wood. It's actually kinda fun to work with if you know what you're doing. It can work well with odd positions for lighting focuses.

Still, I haven't seen them for purchase anywhere in a looong time.


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## gafftaper (May 22, 2007)

I've heard them called all kinds of things from "Cherry Picker" to "Dinosaur". I would check your phone book for a scaffold company and give them a call. 

Also go to www.grainger.com and search for ladders and scaffolds. You won't find the product you are looking for but you'll find a lot of interesting alternatives.


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## Logos (May 22, 2007)

I just googled Tallescope and they only appear to be available in the UK.


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## Footer (May 22, 2007)

They were essentially made to make A-Frames look a bit safer, though I always felt more secure on an A Frame with my legs wrapped around it then in a cherry picker's bucket simply due to the bow in the ladder and the amount of play in it.


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## Edrick (May 23, 2007)

I for one wouldn't want to be on that straight up.


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## Logos (May 23, 2007)

I used one a lot in the UK. I'm close to or slightly over the rated weight of 120Kg and didn't feel unsafe until they got up to about 5 meters. Call it 16-17 feet.


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## soundlight (May 23, 2007)

I'd take an A-frame over a Cherry Picker (that's what we called it) any day. That thing was scary. Didn't help that ours was really old and had no maintenance calls, so it was...wobbly. But I just don't like those things in general. And it takes FOREVER to set up if you're using it to move between aisles of seats, as in to access an FOH position. And then it doesn't go low enough to be able to work on the fixed overhead electrics in my HS. I have a strong prejudice against them, and I would recommend an A-frame before a Cherry Picker _any _day. And a genie over either of the two.


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## DarSax (May 23, 2007)

Actually, this is good timing. I saw this crazy thing for the first time the other day--a combination between the two, it seems. It was a vertical extension ladder (adjustable height) in the center of an A-Frame. Looked like the picture below. While I suppose it'd be safe, sure spooked me just looking at it.


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## soundlight (May 23, 2007)

That's what I call an A-frame...they're really useful, because you can lock your legs around the top. Much more comfortable then working on an extension ladder, much easier than balancing on the top of a standard ladder, and a heckuva lot nicer than a Cherry Picker/Tallescope to me. And the bases on those things are usually about three feet across, and have a really big spread. That thing saves us for Blackbox light rigs.


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## gafftaper (May 23, 2007)

DarSax said:


> Actually, this is good timing. I saw this crazy thing for the first time the other day--a combination between the two, it seems. It was a vertical extension ladder (adjustable height) in the center of an A-Frame. Looked like the picture below. While I suppose it'd be safe, sure spooked me just looking at it.



We had one of those when I was in college. It was absolutely frightening to get up there and swing your leg over the top. It looked like it was 100 years old and made out of wood that was way too light weight. Us young guys would all stand around making up excuses for why we didn't want to go up. Then the 60 year old T.D. would call us a few choice words and climb the thing in his cowboy boots. It's been over 15 years since I first saw that ladder. I was there recently and they still are using it. I applied for a job there at one point and told them that a condition of my taking the job would be to give me $1000 to buy a safe scaffold.


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## stantonsound (May 23, 2007)

We had one in college as well. We called the vertical part "the stick". The trick was to climb on top of it, stratteling the top, and lock your legs in. Ours had wheels and when you got into position, it was rolled from light to light for focus. It was not a fun experience.

This goes to the safety issues in theatre discussion on the stage management forum, but it was my first time working in the theatre and everyone said that this was normal. Today, there is no way in heck that I would get on it again.


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## rmarston (May 23, 2007)

Yep - it's called a "cherry picker" have used one alot some years ago - don't know if there still available.


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## BillESC (May 23, 2007)

I believe the "cherry pickers" were manufactured by Upright Scaffolding.

Give me a Genie lift any day.


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## icewolf08 (May 23, 2007)

DarSax said:


> Actually, this is good timing. I saw this crazy thing for the first time the other day--a combination between the two, it seems. It was a vertical extension ladder (adjustable height) in the center of an A-Frame. Looked like the picture below. While I suppose it'd be safe, sure spooked me just looking at it.



We have an aluminum A-Frame Extension ladder at our theatre, and we use it all the time. I never loved extension ladders and especially A-frames, but ut soon became second nature to run up it, throw a leg over and sit there for however long it took to focus an entire batten. It is a useful tool and it is very safe if you know what you are doing and you be safe. I would be less likely to get in one of these "Cherrypicker" ladders especially because it looks like it puts all of your weight to one side of the stick which doesn't seem too great especially if you are going to be moved around.


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## jwl868 (May 23, 2007)

I haven’t had the time to check, but I am 99% sure that this equipment is regulated under US OSHA either as an aerial lift (as opposed to certain “scissors” lifts that are regulated under the OSHA Scaffolding regs) or as a ladder. Under either regulation, one is not to move the equipment while it is occupied.

http://www.osha.gov/


Joe


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## fredthe (May 23, 2007)

I learned to focus lights on a center-extension a-frame ladder (what we called them). It felt safe once you locked your legs over the top, as was said you could sit there for a long time. (There's actually a picure of me on one in my High School yearbook.) There was one that I used that was about 30' tall, and had enough play in the top section that you could move yourself several feet along a batten.... plus it had wheels. A bit scary, but very efficient.

When looking at currently available ladders for a newly renovated theater, it appears that the only thing that is OSHA approved is either a scaffold, or a Genie lift (or other brand...). They still make what look like center extension a-frame ladders, but they are now called "trestle ladders"... they are designed to support scaffold planks on the extension sections (using two of them.) According to the manufacturer, they are explicitly not to be used as we used to. This is making it very hard to get anything that the school will approve of for the new theater... powered lifts are too expensive (and they won't let students use them anyway), and they're not used to buying scaffolding. So, at the moment, we put a 16' ladder on some 4' platforms to focus (We used to have a Tallescope, but it was pretty trashed, and was junked as part of the renovation.)


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## jklak (May 23, 2007)

I've spent a lot of time in cherry pickers over the years. Like anything, they are only dangerous if they aren't used properly. The only major accident I have ever been in involved a cherry picker. A student set it up for me and I didn't check to see that it was locked down at the base and when I got to the top, it came down. I could have been killed but I lucked out with a broken left arm, a severely bruised right arm and stitches in my head where it hit the floor. All that aside, I would still use a cherry picker. I just make sure everything is locked down before I climb on it.


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## Footer (May 23, 2007)

icewolf08 said:


> We have an aluminum A-Frame Extension ladder at our theatre, and we use it all the time. I never loved extension ladders and especially A-frames, but ut soon became second nature to run up it, throw a leg over and sit there for however long it took to focus an entire batten. It is a useful tool and it is very safe if you know what you are doing and you be safe. I would be less likely to get in one of these "Cherrypicker" ladders especially because it looks like it puts all of your weight to one side of the stick which doesn't seem too great especially if you are going to be moved around.



The new ones that are fiberglass are great. There are plenty of theatres out there that simply can not use a genie to do weight limits of the or access to the stage. This is mostly in the university area, but then again thats where most A frames are found. A-Frames are nice due to their small footprint, however I don't like going up to a 25' or 30' trim on one (enter the focus track!).


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## Jezza (May 23, 2007)

The "cherry pickers" you speak of are death traps. I've had the unfortunate pleasure of using them on many occasions and the unfortunate occasion of having them collapse on me or break on me more than once due to equippment failure, not improper set up.

A-frames are great. I feel completely safe up at 30' on one of those focusing. Sure, it gets uncomfortable after a while, but I know that I can lean out pretty far out on one of those and be perfectly sure that the ladder isn't going anywhere. Plus, there are always two guys down below spotting.


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## MHSTech (May 23, 2007)

Sound like I don't want to buy one of these "cherry picker" deals. Right now we've been limited to scaffolding on our stage and on our lower level of the auditeria. We do have a large two man scissor lift, however it is simply too large and too heavy. It would crazy the stage floor for sure, and there is no way it could make the turns down the ramp leading to the lower level of the auditeria that our light bars hang above. We used to have a nice fiberglass A-Frame ladder in our old building, but we sold it with the building for some unknown reason. Right now I think we're probably looking at a small one man lift or another A-frame. Can anybody make some suggestions?


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## BenjaminD (May 24, 2007)

The center peice of those A-frames lift up!?!!? How do they stay up?! I was just reading this and thought... "that looks just like mine. Except the top peice goes up." Thank you!!!!! I might just be able to focus those confounded side lights safely!! (I gave up on the 24' extension on a slanty floor on a wall that slanted away from the lights, expecially when you try to put pressure on something with the C-wrench). Maybe we don't need to beg the administration to let us borrow their scissors lift!! But how does the centerpeice STAY up? 

THANK YOU!!!! 

(apologies, I'm rather excited that I might be able to almost double the height of my best ladder)


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## icewolf08 (May 24, 2007)

The A-frame extension ladder's stick should have a locking mechanism that holds it up, similar to that of a standard extension ladder. There should be a metal bar that sits underneath the rungs of the stick and as you push the stick up it should drop into place under the rungs as they go by. At least this is how mine works, it wouldn't surprise me if there are other varieties.

Here is an image with details from Werner Ladders:


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## tomed101 (Aug 29, 2007)

Just found this thread,

We have a tallescope in our auditorium and works very well for what we need it for. When used in it's current use it does not have to be extended. On Monday I need to move it to another building where it will need to be extended, but I cannot for the life of me fine a manual for the darn thing. To all of you tallescope owners out there, how do you go about extending it? If you happen to have a manual it would be most useful.

Tom


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## gafftaper (Aug 29, 2007)

I just want to point out that there are several places that will sell you an 11 foot high rolling scaffold on line for less than $1000. Much safer, sturdier, and designed to roll around with you on top with no outriggers. The one I'm getting for my new theater includes a trap door in the top and a platform half way up in the middle so you can climb up 5 feet, stand on a platform, have equipment passed up to you, then continue up through the trap door and have things passed up to you all nice and safe. My fancy one's going to be about $1400


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## derekleffew (Aug 29, 2007)

BillESC said:


> I believe the "cherry pickers" were manufactured by Upright Scaffolding.



BillESC is correct. What's described in the original picture was made by Upright Scaffolding in the US, and known as "Tallescope," in other parts. In it's time, it was a standard "aerial work platform." IF maintained properly, and IF the climber did PROPER pre-use inspections, the device was, to quote a defunct pyro company "as safe as safe can be."

I too, however, prefer the "A-Frame," or trestle ladder. However, OSHA will not allow their use on wheeled carts or dollies. How many theatre electricians are willing to climb up and down every time they want to focus the next fixture on the electric?

The only OSHA-approved, cost-effective solution is to use wheeled scaffolding, with a footprint of 5'x7', which causes it's own problems on a stage with scenery.

But for those who like to dream, I recommend this: *JLG* *Model 20MVL. *http://www.jlg.com/default.asp

Unfortunately, the platform tops out at 19'-6". Still it would be great if your electrics never trim higher than 25'.


YMMV.
Derek


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## derekleffew (Aug 29, 2007)

tomed101 said:


> To all of you tallescope owners out there, how do you go about extending it?



Works just like a modern extension ladder. There shold be a fixed pulley mounted on the top rung of the FIXED section. An approved rope goes thru the pulley and is tied (clove hitch) to the bottom rung of the movable section containing the bucket. Two ratchet-dogs lock the extension in place. 

Read all informational and warning labels on the unit. This writer cannot be considered an authority or authorized person for the purpose of giving advice in the use and operation of any aerial work platform or device. Consult the manufacturer if unsure of any part of the unit's safe and standard operation.

Good Luck.


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## derekleffew (Aug 29, 2007)

icewolf08 thanks for the picture. It reminded me of something. Male crew members appreciate some sort of padding on the top rung of the vertical extension, for obvious reasons. One inch foam rubber or a scrap of carpet works well. Learned that lesson the difficult way when I went from wooden to new fiberglass with metal rungs!


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## Van (Aug 30, 2007)

I just got a Genie runabout. 36" by 50 some odd inch footprint. Goes up to 19 feet and you can drive it around whilst in the air. Sensible, safe, useful.


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## derekleffew (Aug 30, 2007)

Van said:


> ...a Genie runabout. ...Goes up to 19 feet


 Van that's 8.07m platform height, right? Sounds like a direct competitor to the JLG I mentioned. Did you compare the two? Just asking because I've never seen the Genie Runabout, and you've probably never seen the JLG MVL. But I bet we've both used this one: the Genie AWP.


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## Van (Aug 30, 2007)

http://www.genielift.com/ss-series/runabout.asp

There's the link to the Genie Runabout. And here's a picture of one going through a door, which is the main reason I wanted one. I really didn't compare prices because I found one used through RSC's used equipment. I was able to purchase a one year old unit for 3k not bad.


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## jwl868 (Aug 31, 2007)

Van said:


> I just got a Genie runabout. 36" by 50 some odd inch footprint. Goes up to 19 feet and you can drive it around whilst in the air. Sensible, safe, useful.



Van - I didn't think one was allowed (under OSHA) to move this type of equipment (that is, an aerial ladder) while extended and occupied. (Or am I taking "drive it around whilst in the air" too literally?)


Joe


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## Grog12 (Aug 31, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> [
> I too, however, prefer the "A-Frame," or trestle ladder. However, OSHA will not allow their use on wheeled carts or dollies.



One of many reasons I hate those ladders...namely because you never see them still in use with out the cart/dolly. Though I did work at a theatre that had a newer one whose wheels were on springs that only supported the weight of the ladder. When you stepped on it it stopped rolling. Worked decently enough.

For the record this ladder http://www.wernerladder.com/newprods/mt.php is fantastic when working on a raked stage.


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## Van (Aug 31, 2007)

jwl868 said:


> Van - I didn't think one was allowed (under OSHA) to move this type of equipment (that is, an aerial ladder) while extended and occupied. (Or am I taking "drive it around whilst in the air" too literally?)
> 
> 
> Joe


 
Because of the footprint, and the extremely slow speed at which it operates, it is OSHA compatible. < if it isn't Genie is in for a world of hurt, as they have sold tons of them.> 

I Burned out a battery the other day! Arghh!.


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## Footer (Aug 31, 2007)

Van said:


> Because of the footprint, and the extremely slow speed at which it operates, it is OSHA compatible. < if it isn't Genie is in for a world of hurt, as they have sold tons of them.>
> I Burned out a battery the other day! Arghh!.



Same thing goes for the small scissor lifts. When you are up at height they move EXTREMELY slow and you cant stop or start suddenly even if you want to. There is nothing better then having a 20' or so scissor lift onstage.


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## jwl868 (Aug 31, 2007)

Serves me right for posting without checking - Its meeting the ANSI A92.6 specification (that allows the Runabout to be operated while extended. (And that's all in the design details.)

(Though, after reading though the OSHA reg, I'd have thought ANSI A92.2 would have been the citation. But these scaffolding/aerial lift regs are so cross referenced and interpreted, it's not obvious.)

Joe


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