# Flickering Candle



## dannyn (Oct 5, 2008)

Hello all, 
I am trying to achieve the flickering candle, effect.
I know that there is those little tea sized flickering lights, but I need this is a much larger scale, with something that produces much more light.
Does anybody have any ideas?
Thank You!


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## cdub260 (Oct 5, 2008)

dannyn said:


> Hello all,
> I am trying to achieve the flickering candle, effect.
> I know that there is those little tea sized flickering lights, but I need this is a much larger scale, with something that produces much more light.
> Does anybody have any ideas?
> Thank You!



How much larger a scale? Can you give a few more details? This post is really too vague for us to give any effective advice.

Several different ideas come to mind, but I don't know which direction to steer you.


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## dannyn (Oct 6, 2008)

I am looking for something like this
But I need the same light equivalent of a 30watt incadescent bulb.
Thanks!


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 6, 2008)

Let me think, 

GAM makes a flickering machine. 

But that's expensive, I think programming a single channel chase of varying intensities of a 60 watt lamp could create a flicker effect nicely. 

Or, have a dual gobo rotator with flame gobos, in an ellisoidal focused in the general area of this candle.

There are those little flicker-flame bulbs too, but no one likes those.


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## amdram (Oct 6, 2008)

Don't know where you are, but if you're in the UK you could try GlowGadgets.com - Where Everyone Glows 
They do an LED candle that might be what you need.

Andy


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## BrianA (Oct 6, 2008)

How about the Flickering Candle from Rosco?

We sell these starting at $29.75 for the Basic Module. Give me a ring for more info.


Brian Adoff
_Director of Sales_
Philadelphia Theatrical Supply
215.627.1225


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## icewolf08 (Oct 6, 2008)

If you need it to be portable, you are going to be hard pressed to find something that will be as bright as you want it. If you do it will be heavy and big on account of the battery needed to drive it. If the candle is just going to sit in a candlestick or candelabra then gafftapegreenia probably has the best idea.

We do candle effects all the time and for stationary candles we just use flame shaped candelabra based lamps and wire everything so that it can plug into a dimmer. If we need a flicker effect we write on on the console. Sometimes, when the look is right we also use flicker lamps like these:


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## dannyn (Oct 6, 2008)

It does not need to be portable. 
I like the picture that you posted, but I am worried that there will not be enough brightness for what we need. If there was a version of that picture that screwed into a normal light bulb (I don't think itd be lamp,hope I used that right) socket then that would be the best. 
Thanks for all the help that you have given me!


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## Van (Oct 6, 2008)

dannyn said:


> It does not need to be portable.
> I like the picture that you posted, but I am worried that there will not be enough brightness for what we need. If there was a version of that picture that screwed into a normal light bulb (I don't think itd be lamp,hope I used that right) socket then that would be the best.
> Thanks for all the help that you have given me!


 
Dannyn, You're being unintentionally vague, I believe. " I like that picture that you posted..." a could be in response to three different posts in this thread. I'm going to assume < usually a bad idea> that you are referring to Icewolfs picture of the classic "candelabra base flicker bulb" Now those are cool, and they do come in a medium screw base size, bu they don't put off much light. They are really mostly for effect. If it's the shape that you like there are several manufacturers of Lamps that sell flame shaped lamps that are rated at anywhere from 20 - 100 watts. Perhaps a 60 watt-er run and 50% would give you the look you are looking for ? 
I know you posted a picture but perhaps you could take the time to describe the effect you are looking for ? The lamp that Icewolf posted the picture of is about the same size as the entire candle depicted in the picture you posted. Basically, I'm confused. What's your application? What's your budget? What's your look? What's your skill level? These are the basic TD kind of questions I like to ask before making recommendations.


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## dannyn (Oct 6, 2008)

Thanks for the post Van.
I like the picture that Icewolf posted.
I would like to actually use something like that, but I would like it to fit in the standard light bulb socket, if that is possible.
Do you have any links?
Thanks!


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## Van (Oct 6, 2008)

Light Bulbs - 3 watt Flicker Flame Standard Base Bulbs (55160) - LAMPS PLUS

or this one which I don't like the looks of that much, cause it looks like an A23
15A23/E26/ELECTRIC FLAME 120V 15 WATT FLICKER A23 BULB E26 BASE, A23 FLICKER FLAME BULBS, OSCILLATING FILAMENT LIGHT BULB, ANTIQUE REPRODUCTION LIGHT BULB, ANTIQUE LIGHT BULBS, ANTIQUE LAMPS, ANTIQUE BULBS, ELECTRIC FLAME LIGHT BULB


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## dannyn (Oct 6, 2008)

I like the second one better beacuse it is a lot more watts. I think I am going to order both lamps and see which one works better. 
If anyone has any other suggestions, I am open to anything.


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## icewolf08 (Oct 7, 2008)

dannyn said:


> I like the second one better beacuse it is a lot more watts. I think I am going to order both lamps and see which one works better.
> If anyone has any other suggestions, I am open to anything.



More watts doesn't always mean brighter. Especially with devices like these flicker and flame lamps. One other caveat to these lamps is that they aren't really designed to dim. In fact some don't dim at all, if the voltage gets too low they just go out, but until then they stay lit like they are at full (I have done some testing).

What you are trying to do is what we in theatre generally call creating a "Motivated light source." The thing about motivated sources is that in general, in theatre, they the source itself is not bright enough to carry the scene. So what do we do? We try to imitate the quality of light from supplemental sources. How can we do this? Well, the cardinal rule of lighting for the stage is that you have to be able to see the actors. If the audience can't see the actors they feel like something is wrong. Therefore if we supplement the light that a single candle emits and actually light a big chunk of stage (in a manner consistent with how a candle illuminates a room) the audience will believe it.

So now is the part where we do some thinking. How does a candle illuminate a room? What does candle light look like? We know that candle light is warm, and we know that it isn't that bright. Also if your candle rests on a table the light from it comes at a very low, almost flat angle to everything. Also, set up a candle and note that in general you don't notice all that much flickering except when you are close to the source. How do we achieve this look on stage? Low angle front and side light in a warm color. You may also have some kind of warm soft focused special that illuminates the area where the candle is as a downlight (or close to down). Mix in a little cool back or top light to make your people pop and you should be OK.

If you have your heart set on having lots of flickering going on you can now write an FX cue in your console that randomly changes the levels of the fill lights. Consider though that lots of flickering light will get annoying and distracting very fast. If you end up using flicker lamp (even if you don't) you will convey the idea of "candle" to the audience. The other thing you can try to get the "flickering" effect is gobo rotators. Any TwinSpin style rotator will do the trick. Rotating two organic breakups in opposition will continually change the shadows and highlights in the space and should give a pretty good flicker effect. 

The audience is smarter than you think, you don't need to hit them in the face with "candle light" for them to believe that is how the scene is illuminated. You also have to think about how far away the audience is from the effect. In a proscenium stage the audience is usually so far away that they don't pick up on the minute details. This is why we can get away with thing like using a Rosco or CTI Flicker candle instead of a real one, you can't tell the difference when you are in the audience.

So before you go scrounging around the web and buying up different lamps and candles you might want to think about how you really need the effect to look. What other gear do you have to supplement the effect in house? This is one of those things that falls under the art of theatre. We attempt to mesh the needs of the design with the needs of reality and hopefully come out with art!


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## derekleffew (Oct 7, 2008)

Forget the candles and use torchieres! (Much more dramatic.)

Le Flame


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## WillowEllery (Oct 7, 2008)

Be specific! Details remember, are the cornerstone of solving problems. 

Edit: Whoops, didn't realize there were two pages of this, so I deleted my questions, because icewolf, above, pretty much had already said everything I'd said. However, to the original poster, my last comment still stands.  Details are the cornerstone of problem solving.


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## dannyn (Oct 7, 2008)

Thanks to all who helped.
I went with what Van posted.
This is for a haunted house, so it need to be just perfect, beacuse I do not want too much light to take the effect away, but I also want it to still me safe.
Thanks for the long post Icewolf.
Nice idea Derek, but I already have many of those in place.
Thanks to everyone once again


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