# Halloween DMX advice



## danbrookwell (Dec 22, 2011)

I run a fairly large, yet very low budget, halloween attraction in my town. This year, I am looking to link practical and stage lights to a control program. I really do not know much about what I am trying to do so hopefully i can get some help. I am looking at computer programs i could run to control sequences of lighting and act as a lighting board. Would the lights need to be run by DMX? Should there be a dimmer? is there a way I can just feed power to individual lights in a DIY manner? Please help. Thanks

Dan


----------



## mstaylor (Dec 23, 2011)

danbrookwell said:


> I run a fairly large, yet very low budget, halloween attraction in my town. This year, I am looking to link practical and stage lights to a control program. I really do not know much about what I am trying to do so hopefully i can get some help. I am looking at computer programs i could run to control sequences of lighting and act as a lighting board. Would the lights need to be run by DMX? Should there be a dimmer? is there a way I can just feed power to individual lights in a DIY manner? Please help. Thanks
> 
> Dan


Yes, dimmers are required, DMX is the best way from a computor. Search the site for free computor solutions, there are many options. How many lights are you using and how big a distance between them? There are some Christmas light controllers that may work but I don't have any experience with them so I will leave that to guys that do. Shoebox dimmers may work if it isn't very many lights or if they are spread out over a distance.


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 23, 2011)

stage lights tend to be over kill for an application like this, they also require a large amount of timing to get right for a Halloween house. My suggestion is do a google search with performer activated Halloween lights, Being in the room with the guests its easier to tell when the right moment.


----------



## Van (Dec 23, 2011)

First off we need to nail down some terminology. 
You cont control lights with DMX. You control Dimmers, relays, switches, and settings with DMX. In return all these other items can control your lights or other electrical devices. It is possible to run animatronics using DMX. You could automate your entire facility with DMX, there used to be a number of 'Theme Restaurants' that were controlled via DMX. 
I'm not trying to be pedantic I just don't want you to think, " Hey I got a dmx control board now I plug all my lights into it and Bam!" 'cause it don't work that way. 
As far as scripting, sequencing, looping a DMX control console, even the most rudimentary would be a great thing. I have also seen systems that tie SMPTE & MIDI together to coordinate DMX controlled fixtures, and devices. Do some reading up in the WIKI on here and start lettting your imagination rule wild. Chances are you can do it and control it via DMX.


----------



## WooferHound (Dec 23, 2011)

I have always used Christmas lights in haunted houses because they are dim and come in many colors. I have never had Haunted House lighting that was controlled from a central point. I have always used Wall Dimmers or stand-alone chaser units to control the lighting. Motion detector lights could also be useful, as well as flooring that can switch the lights on & off.


----------



## beardedbil (Dec 23, 2011)

I specifically work with haunted attractions and in the past we have used Alcorn McBride, Gilderfluke, And Enttec to control the DMX lighting. I have also used portable dimmer packs to connect pin spots and other theatrical (non DMX) lights. If you have any questions do not hesitate to message me. 
Best,
Bill Rod.
Dark Tech Effects
www.darktecheffects.com


----------



## Van (Dec 23, 2011)

beardedbil said:


> ..... I have also used portable dimmer packs to connect pin spots and other theatrical (non DMX) lights.
> Dark Tech Effects - Automated lighting, Show Control, and Visual Effects


 
ACK ! 
This is what I'm talking about. Ok, You could say that LED fixtures and Moving lights are "DMX" lights but that is very confusing Lights are not DMX and Non-DMX < except maybe LED> Lights are lights they work off of electricity. DMX is Merely a control protocol.


----------



## chausman (Dec 23, 2011)

Van said:


> ACK !
> This is what I'm talking about. Ok, You could say that LED fixtures and Moving lights are "DMX" lights but that is very confusing Lights are not DMX and Non-DMX < except maybe LED> Lights are lights they work off of electricity. DMX is Merely a control protocol.


 
And, even in a non-dim setting, devices like LED lights (that are controlled via DMX) or moving heads (again, controlled by DMX) should not be powered through a dimmer. This can cause a lot of damage to equipment.


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 23, 2011)

I'm sorry for my lack of terminology. I just want to answer a few of your questions.

The lighting control is going to be controlling 4 rooms within the haunt. All the fixtures are practical lights, however I would like to program a sequence that would make them flicker, cut out completely, surge out, etc. I don't want to purchase anything extensive, so I am now wondering if there is any way to allow a computer to just send out power to the lights that are in a power strip, or if there is a way to do this without dimmers. Technically, for the effects I am looking for, the lights don't need to be "dimmed", just turned on and off in a sequence. Kind of like a chaser would do, yet I would like an almost random look to it.

Thanks,
~Dan


----------



## chausman (Dec 23, 2011)

If you don't want to purchase anything, renting a few things may be a better. Depending on where you are, bishopthomas may be able to help, or offer local suggestions.


----------



## emac (Dec 23, 2011)

This seems to be the perfect place for a relay type device.

There are several people that have developed devices that have multiple relay circuits and can be controlled by a computer. Im speaking of homebrew devices.....


But expect to spend some money on this as well as the knowledge that when you make something yourself (especially when working with line voltage) it is not certified, insured or anything, so if something bad happens it will come down on you. 

Another thing to consider is that if this is a large attraction that is open to the public is how the ADJ will react to something homebuilt....

BUT hey the option is there.


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 23, 2011)

One word arduino 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 24, 2011)

are they hard to program?


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 24, 2011)

Just Google it. Honestly, and this isn't you, but I find it really difficult to help people if they won't research for themselves.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## shiben (Dec 24, 2011)

danbrookwell said:


> I am looking at computer programs i could run to control sequences of lighting and act as a lighting board. Would the lights need to be run by DMX? Should there be a dimmer? is there a way I can just feed power to individual lights in a DIY manner? Please help. Thanks
> 
> Dan



Ok a couple things. You can indeed get a computer to run lights and to do flicker effects and the like. You could either get a real lighting console or use a program on the computer to do the effects you want. If you did, you would probably need a dimmer or relay. These can be had for under 100 bucks for a 4 channel shoebox dimmer. This would be a use for DMX. This is also how you would feed power to individual lights. A DIY way to do this is to plug things into a power strip manually. A Dimmer rack/shoebox dimmers or a relay rack are basically computer controlled power strips. I personally think that running your attraction from a centralized area is a silly idea, you would need to spend more than the control system on cameras and audio distribution to make sure your effects went off perfectly. Why not just install floor switches (like you can buy at guitar center) to run lights, wall switches for the performers, and maybe some motion activated lights? I suppose you could then run all this into a computer and have each activation device trigger a cue, but that might be harder than its worth. If your trying to make it all go dark at once, consider positioning a dude next to the wall switch in an unobtrusive spot? If the lights need to flicker and surge out and whatnot, you will want a dimmer.


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 24, 2011)

As someone who has designed and operated many Haunted Houses over the years, from no-budget to big budget, here are my suggestions.

DMX is a great way to make lights do more than just turn on and off. If you want the lights to dim and or flicker this is a nice way to do it. Usually though I prefer to keep it to houses that are on the smaller size (or ones where you are running a dedicated electrical system anyway) just because of the extra amount of wiring needed. Also DMX is not a two way system so if you want specific effects triggered by actors or patrons then you have to run an extra line all the way back to the control room!

Therefore I usually like to use DMX for overall lighting when syncing to a soundtrack. But for specific effects and scemes I prefer to have everything spread out, including the control systems. If you want lights to flicker and fade then I would recommend the Fright-Light Plus from Haunt Master Productions This handy device will allow you to dial in different effects for lights.

This same effect can be done with DMX but will require running wires back to a central control room, setting up a program to cause the lights to flicker, then using "show box" dimmers with the lights. Where as the same effect can be achieved with 1 product in each room. (or depending on the amount of lights all rooms can be run to the one box, though they will then all flicker at the same time). Of course all the lights will flicker at the same rate and with he same program, so if you want different either get a separate box for each, or go DMX.

In my houses I usually use a mixture of DMX and local control rather than using one or the other. Depending on what effect you are going for will decide what you need to use. If you have any questions about different ways to achieve the effect you want feel free to ask!


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 27, 2011)

Morte615 said:


> As someone who has designed and operated many Haunted Houses over the years, from no-budget to big budget, here are my suggestions.
> 
> DMX is a great way to make lights do more than just turn on and off. If you want the lights to dim and or flicker this is a nice way to do it. Usually though I prefer to keep it to houses that are on the smaller size (or ones where you are running a dedicated electrical system anyway) just because of the extra amount of wiring needed. Also DMX is not a two way system so if you want specific effects triggered by actors or patrons then you have to run an extra line all the way back to the control room!
> 
> ...


 
Yes this looks to be EXACTLY what I want to achieve! I will most likely purchase 2 and run every other room off of a single box. 

Just a question, when you DMX in your haunts, do you go through a computer or use a board with programmed cues? also do you use shoebox dimmers or professional dimming systems?

~Dan


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 27, 2011)

danbrookwell said:


> Just a question, when you DMX in your haunts, do you go through a computer or use a board with programmed cues? also do you use shoebox dimmers or professional dimming systems?
> 
> ~Dan



If I am running a static program (it plays the same program over and over without changing based on inputs) then I will program the show and usually use either a ENTTEC DMX Pro or a Gilderfluke DMX Box.

If my show will be affected by triggers I like to use a computer with show control software, IE, SFX or QLab. That way I send all the triggers to the computer, then the computer sends the commands for props and lights to the DMX program.

As for the dimmers, it depends on the size and style of the Haunt. Up to now I have just used shoebox dimmers. Though after working at a haunt event this last October I think I may change how I do it for next year. I am working on plans to run dedicated temporary power for the haunt. That way I have FULL control of the power and it can be rolled up and reused if the location changes next year without having to re-plan new power runs. Thinking of getting a Smartpack touring system and running all the cable from top of the walls. One reason I am looking at these is the ease of installing E-Stops. The Smartpack has an emergency contact input which lets you set up emergency/work lights from inside the dimmer without having external programming. Also the portability is nice considering I am never sure if I will be in the same location from year to year. Of course there are draw backs also, mainly the extra weight and cost involved in lugging around power cable instead of using whatever is available on site. Even though if the haunt is out in a field with little to no power then this is a non-issue since you would have to bring in the power anyway


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 27, 2011)

Thanks everyone for all the great, positive feedback. I will most likely use the 'Fright Lite' as it is the cheapest sold, and it looks like it does exactly what I am looking for. 

Just wondering, i guess this goes back to my original question, is there a way to automate lights like the Fright Lite would do, but for free? Does anyone know any free programs that can handle output to lights that could automate flicker and surges that Fright Lite can do?

Also, is there a way to limit the intensity of the lights coming out of the fright lite? I am looking for a VERY dim flicker (almost ambient yet so dark you could barely see). Basically can I have a sort of 'grandmaster' over the intensity of light coming out of the Fright Lite? 

I know thats a lot of questions and rambling right there, however I have searched around and I can't find any help that answers these specific questions, and this site is a direct resource that I think could help out...so sorry if the constant questioning is getting annoying...

~Dan


----------



## avery (Dec 27, 2011)

mstaylor said:


> Yes, dimmers are required...



Before you take this advice you need to make sure you're actually going to be dimming fixtures. If you're using intelligent lights then you don't need dimmers. If you're using LEDs then you don't need dimmers. You only need dimmers if you're using fixtures that can't dim on their own.


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 27, 2011)

avery said:


> Before you take this advice you need to make sure you're actually going to be dimming fixtures. If you're using intelligent lights then you don't need dimmers. If you're using LEDs then you don't need dimmers. You only need dimmers if you're using fixtures that can't dim on their own.



I plan on using mostly practical lighting, so a shoebox dimmer would be the perfect solution as it outputs in the AC Edison that i would be able to plug the practicals directly into. I would need a dimmer for this right?

Would I still need a dimmer if it was just turning off or on in a pattern?


----------



## Van (Dec 27, 2011)

danbrookwell said:


> ....Would I still need a dimmer if it was just turning off or on in a pattern?



If you are programing a ' chase ' or a ' loop ' and you want the lights to simply turn off and on then, no you do not need a dimmer. You will need a relay or 'Non-Dim' pack. The realy pack serves as an addressable "on-off" switch. the relay pack would need to be DMX addressable, or whatever control code you decide on. 
and for my two cents, please don't waste your time researching Arduinos. They are great tools for specific operations, but unless you are an electronics buff, AND you have the time to learn BASIC STAMP, AND you are a good programmer AND you have the patience to debug you programming AND you have the ability to build an interface between 9vdc and 120v mains than I would not waste my time.


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 28, 2011)

Is there a way to limit the intensity of the lights coming out of the fright lite? I am looking for a VERY dim flicker (almost ambient yet so dark you could barely see). Basically can I have a sort of 'grandmaster' over the intensity of light coming out of the Fright Lite?


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 28, 2011)

danbrookwell said:


> Is there a way to limit the intensity of the lights coming out of the fright lite? I am looking for a VERY dim flicker (almost ambient yet so dark you could barely see). Basically can I have a sort of 'grandmaster' over the intensity of light coming out of the Fright Lite?


 
Hmmm not sure about that, I would recommend using very low wattage bulbs in the lamps. I will pull mine out and see if a dimmer will work with it, and where the best placement for it would be.


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 28, 2011)

Just did some testing, and using a lamp dimmer that I had. The light would only come on at all at the brightest setting (and only when dimmed barely) and you didn't see any of the flickering effects at all. So my idea would be to just use a smaller wattage bulb in your fixtures.


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 29, 2011)

Morte615 said:


> Just did some testing, and using a lamp dimmer that I had. The light would only come on at all at the brightest setting (and only when dimmed barely) and you didn't see any of the flickering effects at all. So my idea would be to just use a smaller wattage bulb in your fixtures.


 
Carefull with those lamp dimmers, they are generally only rated to about 200 watts, I've only seen one that reached the 700 watt max.


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 29, 2011)

yeah I have noticed that, this one is actually used on a lamp (13 watt dimmable CFL actually) and for testing I was using a 35 watt incandescent bulb.

And mostly unrelated question, but when is it appropriate to use bulb vs. lamp when naming things?


----------



## danbrookwell (Dec 29, 2011)

Morte615 said:


> Just did some testing, and using a lamp dimmer that I had. The light would only come on at all at the brightest setting (and only when dimmed barely) and you didn't see any of the flickering effects at all. So my idea would be to just use a smaller wattage bulb in your fixtures.



Thanks for the help man! Did you dim the power supply before or after it went to the Device? Im thinking maybe if it was dimmed prior to entering the fright lite then it would work? any suggestions?


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 29, 2011)

Morte615 said:


> And mostly unrelated question, but when is it appropriate to use bulb vs. lamp when naming things?


 

Do a search, we've beaten that dead horse over and over again...


----------

