# dry ice help!!!!



## wadeace (Dec 3, 2008)

were in the middle of our production nutcracker and the dancers are complaining about the dry ice.

we are currently using two peasoupers placed up stage, one on either side. we use aluminum ducting to pipe the dry ice into the wings.

the problem is that there is condensation on the stage floor and dancers are worried they might slip. since this was just bought to our attention we have cut it from the show until we can solve the problem. (but the designers want it fixed now) after a test last night we found that the two clouds meet and stay stagnent swirlng upstage center.

dose anyone have any suggestions.


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## Footer (Dec 3, 2008)

Turn up the heat a bit could help, is your floor a poured slab or is it trapped? Is there a marely down? If you have a cold floor, this might be unavoidable. Might also look at getting some more fans to keep it moving. Otherwise, you could always "coke" the stage (fill a sprayer with a bit of coke and water, spray away). Its not the best thing to do with marley, or to dancers who like to spin.


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## wadeace (Dec 3, 2008)

the deck is a spung pine floor coved in maso
we are useing a marley.

my td wanted to avoid fans to prevent it fom disapating quickley.

with the coke idea what poportins should i use, if i were to do it. ie 1 to 1 part, 1 to 2 part etc.


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## Footer (Dec 3, 2008)

wadeace said:


> the deck is a spung pine floor coved in maso
> we are useing a marley.
> 
> my td wanted to avoid fans to prevent it fom disapating quickley.
> ...



Last time I did it I did 1 2-liter to a Hudson sprayer. Do a test first though, and check with your dance captains and the choreographer/director/whoever before you go and do it.


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## Van (Dec 3, 2008)

If your dancers are properly rosined this shouldn't be too much of a problem. I've always found that coking a floor is a good solution and a liter of coke in a half full mop bucket it a great proportion. As Kyle said Be sure to inform you dance captain that you will be coking the floor, as the dancers will then need to adjust their rosining. I agree however, that the main issue is heating the floor, whether you bake the marley under every light at full for 10 minutes pre-show, or blow hot air on it you need the floor warmed up to keep the condesation down. The Weird thing, to me anyway, is to be getting condensation over a large area as it seems you are describing. Usually you only get a large amount of condensation at the end of the hose which is delivering the fog.


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## adude23 (Dec 3, 2008)

Sorry if this sounds stupid is just a suggestion,
Could using something more like this:
Antari
:which uses normal fog fluid and ice be a solution it would be cold but wouldn't be as cold! and is still the "same" effect
~Adude~


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## dvsDave (Dec 3, 2008)

You can build a fog chiller as well:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-f-x/1471-dry-ice-effects.html
Search Fog Chiller on this site and google, I remember someone posting instructions or a link to instructions... I remember something about it being an f/x for Halloween.


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## Wolf (Dec 3, 2008)

slight thread high-jack

So how would "Coking" the floor help?, What does this do?

and to me at least it does seem odd that there is condensation over the entire stage and not just at the end of the hose.


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## Footer (Dec 3, 2008)

Wolf said:


> slight thread high-jack
> 
> So how would "Coking" the floor help?, What does this do?
> 
> and to me at least it does seem odd that there is condensation over the entire stage and not just at the end of the hose.



Its a fix to the slipping problem, not the condensation problem. The condensation will still occur, but with the coke on the floor the floor becomes sticky and feet/slippers/shoes stick to it better. Its more of a band-aid then a real fix.


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## wadeace (Dec 4, 2008)

ok,
this basically conforms what i already know. so we figured out a solution where we drop the basket, then after a short 20 sec time period then we lift the basket and we strike the hoses. this allows for the initial effect and the cloud to move on its own pressure.

the condensation would effect the two upstage panels of the Marley.

a science lesson on condensation. it happens when a could substances meets a hot substance. i.e. a cold dance floor and warm fog.

the antari would do the same thing.

oh and i went to the sm with the coke idea and that got shot down real hard.


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## adude23 (Dec 4, 2008)

I know what condensation is and how it occurs, what i'm trying to say is with the antari's all they d is "cool" the fog that is pumped through it. . . So instead of heating up the dry ice it cools the fog that's coming out before it leaves the machine so in theory the fog coming out of the Antari should be as cold or slightly warmer than the floor. . ?
I dunno it was just a suggestion and would be the first thing i'd try
~Adude~


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## Chris Chapman (Dec 4, 2008)

adude23 said:


> Sorry if this sounds stupid is just a suggestion,
> Could using something more like this:
> Antari
> :which uses normal fog fluid and ice be a solution it would be cold but wouldn't be as cold! and is still the "same" effect
> ~Adude~



I picked up two of these used last year for the price of one unit. They are a very nice alternative to normal dry ice. New they are a little pricey. Be advised that you can get a "little" fog fluid residue on the deck by the unit itself. And that definitely is slippery. They aren't really designed to have a hose or ducting hooked up to them though, and the units are kinda big.


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## gafftaper (Dec 4, 2008)

I think your number one problem is that you live in Key West. You have more humidity in the air than most locations. So that fog is carrying a lot more water in it than most of us would experience. I'm not sure that warming the floor is going to help much because you are fighting a very up hill battle. On the positive side I bet you get a lot more fog out of your fogger than they do in dry places like Vegas. 

The Antari or other chillers (do it yourself or buy one called the "fog cabin" if I remember right) is an excellent solution because it isn't based on water vapor. It's a chemical fog that is cooled down in order to lie low to the ground because it's colder than the air around it. Unlike dry ice, the cloud itself is chemical, not water vapor. The negative is that the chilled chemical foggers kick up easily and don't hug the ground as low. If you use a super fast dissipating fluid you can avoid most of that. I think Le Maitre makes a fog fluid just for this purpose.


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## wadeace (Dec 4, 2008)

thanks for the advice everyone.
we have to stick with the soupers for this production, but we did figure it out by not letting the flow die on stage. 

but ill keep the antari in mind (actually its always been there, its just finding the money)


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## adude23 (Dec 4, 2008)

Depending on what kind of demand of the show your doing you don't always have to stick with antari's there are MUCH cheaper alternatives and also building your own is also an option! Next time you want the "Dry Ice Effect" try Googling 'ground fogger' or 'low fog machine' There are plenty out there!
(I picked one up for about £100 it wasn't DMX but i just used a Chauvet fog DMX adapter and worked perfectly,
Now i know people are going to say oh those little foggers are rubbish and a waste of time well actually if you're going to be using the dry ice effect for 1 song in a dance show consisting of about 20 or more songs why waste money on the Antari's? I know i would always go with the Antari model if i could or was going to be using it alot in a show but i can honestly say i've used the cheaper 'ground foggers' and they work fine!
~Adude~


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## gafftaper (Dec 4, 2008)

If you already have a chemical fogger then either building your own chiller or buying one is a great and cheap solution. You should be able to build your own for less than $40 if you are creative in where you buy your parts search CB for several discussions on how to do it. Or you can purchase a nice pre-made chiller for $160 from these guys.


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## jwl868 (Dec 5, 2008)

A couple other comments (especially in light of Van's and Wolf's remarks about condenstation on the floor.)

Maybe the water on the floor is "overspray" (for lack of a better term). If the water is very hot (or I suppose if there is a lot of dry ice), there may be too much agitation from the roiling boiling (okay, subliming) of the dry ice. Fine droplets (as opposed to the fog of water that condenses in the cool CO2 gas) may be getting carried along with the mass of air/fog and those droplets fall to the floor. Perhaps a slightly lower water temperature will reduce the generation of droplets. Or maybe one or more right angle turns in the piping will let the droplets impinge and be intercepted before they reach the end of the pipe. Or maybe the piping configuration itself is letting water get to the end of the pipe too easily; could the piping be sloped slightly so that any water droplets that stick to the pipe will roll down and back toward the machine (instead of toward the outlet)?

It may not be true condensation, after all the water fog is condensed water that floats in the air. 

Joe


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## Goph704 (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm in the middle of the same show, using the exact same equipment, the only difference is that we have our pea-soupers placed downstage behind the main rag and we place towels underneath the outer edge of the aluminum runs. If there is condensation on the floor then we still have enough wing space to mop up without being seen by the audience. if you want to be really cool, I suggest finding a way to elevate edge of the business end of the aluminum upward a little bit so water doesn't stream out. if you just drop them on the floor it will run out. Also you don't have to run your machine at high the entire time, or use a hug4e bucket of dry ice. Buy an Ice scoop. You get a great effect by using one and 1 and 1/2 scoops at a 30 to 45 second burst. I suggest starting with the gear at the top and slowly shifting down over a 15 second count instead of starting with it all the way down, or going strait from first to fifth gear. 
-p.s.- it is rude to try and correct people who are doing their best to help you, simply point out that that suggestion will not work for what you are trying to do, and move on.
- Good luck
Gopher.


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## Goph704 (Dec 5, 2008)

oh wait, I'm being rude myself. Please disregard my P.S. notice.
- thanks Goph.


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## wadeace (Dec 5, 2008)

ok 
so im sorry for being snarky.

also thank you to everyone for there suggestions.


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