# Building a lighting inventory- baby steps



## manuallyfocused (Apr 4, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I'm about 3/4 of the the way through my first year as a part-timer on the faculty at a private high school in the San Fernando Valley near LA (and just received a contract for full-time next year), and driving myself a little crazy trying to get a crash course in lighting (and sound) and chart a development path to get us to the point of having a functional theater. My background is in set design and construction primarily. I played with lights a bit in college, but did very little design and (unfortunately) mostly smiled and nodded when my LD colleagues nerded out over the complexities of lighting control, dimming, and fixture specification. That said, I'm learning fast! I wanted to put all this out here in the hopes of getting some advice, and hopefully getting pointed in directions of things I haven't known to look for as of yet. Thanks very much in advance for your thoughts, questions, and criticisms! Also, apologies in advance for this novel of a post! Feel free to skim and respond only to the parts that interest you, or have fun helping me re-imagine the whole system!

Here's our current situation and setup:

The school is relatively new (13 years old) and we just moved into a new-to-us facility last year. I am the first theater technical person on the faculty (the only other theater faculty is our director/musical director/choir director) and up until now we have employed independent contractors to design and execute our shows with little student involvement). Much of the impetus of my hiring was a desire on the part of the school to build a stagecraft program for the students, which was begun this year with an after-school 2-hour/wk class and next year will be a full-credit during-school elective class. The building was originally a community center, so the performance space is a multi-purpose auditorium with a small stage, and to accommodate performances with 30-40 person casts we usually build platforms out into the audience area. We are very limited in built-in lighting positions- we have one 32' pipe over the house with 6 two-fered circuits in a built-in Colortran raceway, and one 32' pipe over the stage with a similar raceway. Dimming is provided by a 12 x 2.4k Colortran 192 pack mounted on a wall backstage, and controlled via analog 0-5v control by a Pack Master 2-scene console in the booth at the back of the auditorium, plugged into a DB15 connector on the wall in the booth (for which, thankfully, I have the pinout).

Midway into the auditorium there is an Airwall track for splitting the room in two, though the wall is currently non-functional. The ceiling steps down quite severely as you move further away from the stage- the house pipe is deadhung from unistrut 21'-6" from the auditorium floor, and by the time you get to the booth at the back the roof is 10'-9" from the floor. I've attached a PDF of my section drawing of the auditorium, with the lighting positions and the roof heights notated. 

We do one big musical every year in January or February, and a smaller production in May, as well as numerous lectures, orchestra concerts, dance concerts, and other events during the year. Currently, we have a production budget for the musical that is normally spent almost entirely on rental for lighting and sound (roughly $17-20k/yr) to essentially rent the entire system for each. It is unlikely that I will be able to get significant amounts of money from the school outside of the production budget in order to modernize our systems and begin to lessen our dependence and expenditure on rental gear. I know that grants are an option, and any advice you can give on where to look for grants that might apply to us would be greatly appreciated.

THE PLAN:

For lighting, I want to build our infrastructure to the point where we are only renting fixtures for our shows (and eventually, only specialized fixtures as necessary) and have our power distro, dimming, positions, and control provided in-house, both for our own events and also for other events as the space is sometimes used for rental as well.

This year we've already spent the vast majority of our production budget on our musical in February, The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee, some of which was due to our lighting designer going almost $2000 over budget. We have very little left for our second show, and precious little to try to begin spending on infrastructure, but I am determined to at least give us a start. Between the remainder of the production budget, money in the arts department budget for the theater and dance classes, and a generous donation by a parent of some of the theater students, I think I will be able to cobble together about $5-6k to spend immediately.

DIMMING- I have purchased a 24-channel DMX Decoder board from Northlight DMX (suggested by another ControlBooth thread, thank you!) and their DMX in/out connector board, and with the assistance of our robotics teacher I will be building a DMX--> analog converter so we can control our Colortran 192 pack with a DMX board. Beyond that, I am unsure of how best to proceed. We have plenty of power (100 amps 3 phase to cam-loks in a closet backstage, with open access to the dropped ceiling above the theater) but little in the way of wall-plug circuits in the auditorium itself. I had thought about purchasing several Elation 640B pipe-mounted dimmer packs to give me some flexibility so I could add lights along the airwall track and on booms onstage or in the house as necessary, but they will necessitate some long runs of edison extension cords and DMX control cable to get them powered. It was just suggested to me that we run lengths of socapex above the ceiling and drop it anywhere we think we'd need it, which is a fantastic idea and will just require the funds to purchase the 600' or so of SOCA we'd need to make it happen (and then to purchase the dimmers and/or power distro to energize them and the breakouts to get them to the lights, but baby steps!).

Possible steps-
Immediately- buy 2-4 Elation 640Bs and a bunch of 12/3 cable with connectors (most of our lights and all 
the built-in raceways are L5-20s, in lovely bright colors of orange and yellow)
Future- Purchase 1 ETC Smartpack 6 x 2.4k or 12 x 1.2k dimmer pack per year and run socapex cable 
"temporarily" through the dropped ceiling to the airwall track and other house and stage positions.

CONTROL- We normally rent in a control board as part of our rental package, usually an ETC board (this year it was an Ion) and if budget were not a factor I would purchase an Ion immediately. However, because of the limited budget right now I need to look elsewhere. We have occasional access to a number of intelligent fixtures for free or cheap rental, so whatever board we get needs to be able to handle both conventional intensity channels and multi-attribute fixtures and function as a memory console for our larger productions while allowing simple submasters to be set up for less intensive applications. 

I've looked at the Elation Scenesetter 48 as an inexpensive option to get us through the end of the year, and a number of used and new options that would last us a bit longer (used Express, Hogs of various stripes, PC-based options like Nomad or Hog4PC, Pathway Cognito, etc). My current inclination is to go with the Strand 250ML, which gives us 2 universes of DMX control (split into 250 intensity channels and up to 30 40-attribute fixtures) as well as dedicated encoders for intelligent fixtures and essentially the most bang for our buck that I can find. Ideally, I'd get us an Ion, but right now we just can't afford it. The only downsides with the Strand board (aside from it being a Strand board, as my ETC purist friends have been joking) are that it is relatively new and not a ton of information is available on how well it actually performs, and if we're in a jam and need someone to come in and program it is very unlikely to have someone come in who will know how to program it. The only boards I've ever used were ETC (Express and Obsession II) and Leprecon (something 2-scene preset-ish in our college studio theater) so I'm definitely open to suggestion in this area. The fact that the Strand board can be had brand new for sub-$2k makes it extremely attractive for our immediate situation.

ACCESS- Right now we have no easy way of getting to the house lighting positions. We rent in a genie lift for our shows, and maintenance has an extension ladder that, when set on a platform (ssh, don't tell OSHA) can reach the lights for refocusing, cabling, and replacing lamps. The facilities department is purchasing a scissor lift for the fall, but generally speaking borrowing it from them will likely be a time-consuming and frustrating process. I am looking at purchasing an 18' adjustable multi-purpose rolling scaffold tower that could easily get us access to any of our positions over the house, both now and in the future, and would store pretty easily under the stage when not in use.

LIGHTING POSITIONS- Here's where we have a lot of options. I am planning to build a platform about 20' into the house for our upcoming show, which is going to necessitate some kind of frontlight position at or around the airwall track. Right now we have no boom bases and very little sch 40 pipe, so I'm planning to purchase a number of both (and eventually pipe threading and cutting apparatus so we can have some flexibility in the sizing of booms for use onstage and off). I was planning to purchase at least 5 of the Lightsource 4" Airwall Hangers to hang a pipe all the way across the Airwall track (roughly 50' long) and connect it to two vertical booms, one at either end, to give us flat and angled frontlight positions. In the future, I'll add taildowns from the ends of the existing house beam and connect them to the airwall track positions via another boom and 20' of I-beam truss along each side wall, giving us some decent sidelight positions and a spot to hang speakers.

Eventually, I want to go into the ceiling and drop some hanging points to build a pipe grid from the house beam to just in front of the proscenium. Then I want to build a wall behind the onstage pipe, turning the back part of the stage (with the angled roof) into a storage space, and giving us a placement for a cyc and making that onstage pipe into cyc light and backlight positions. Then I'll semi-permanently build the stage out into the house (with traps!) turning the space effectively into a 3-quarter thrust theater with the option for endstage configuration with a smaller audience. Once all that is accomplished, I'll work on getting them to raise the ceiling in the back of the house, and maybe by then they'll have raised the money to build us a real theater .

FIXTURES- Here is our current inventory (cue the laugh track) much of which I spent the better part of an afternoon having my stagecraft class clean off and test and we discovered, much to my surprise, that all but three of them have working lamps and seem in fairly decent functional shape.

-5 Colortran 15-30 degree zoom ellipsoidals (maybe 6, not sure)
-4 Altman 360 ellipsoidals (I think. there's no label on them. They have angled lamp housings)
-1 14" Scoop
-1 6" studio fresnel
-11 6" Lee Colortran fresnels
-11 silver DJ par46 cans
-8 575w Source4 ellipsoidals with 26 degree barrels

For these, I don't have a lot of direction. Right now the 11 Colortran fresnels live on the overstage pipe, and the Source4s live on the house pipe, and provide a reasonable stage wash for our basic events. I eventually want to do a house plot that is completely LED, replacing the onstage fixtures with ETC Colorsource Pars (maybe buying 1 or 2 per year) and replacing some of the Source4s with inexpensive LED moving lights (maybe Chauvet Rogue R1 spots). But mostly, what I'm missing right now is any kind of area lighting besides the fresnels, which aren't very bright (almost all of the fixtures use 500w or 600w lamps, and right now several are lamp-less and we have no replacements). I was thinking of building an inventory of some Source4 Pars to complement the Source4 lekos, but I'm not sure if it makes more sense just to go straight to LED. 

Separately, we have had to rent in something to cover houselighting as well as stagelighting in the past because our house light system (which runs on a colortran dimmer even older than the 192 pack that runs the stage) was re-lamped with CFLs when the school took over the building. The facilities department has just committed to replacing them all with LED lamps and switching out the dimmers for a DMX-controllable system, likely something from Strand, but that's under their control. They've been generous enough to agree to give me a DMX control port in the booth (and hopefully a pass-through in the backstage lighting closet so I can run cable easily to onstage dimmers and fixtures), but that's about all I can expect to get from them.

If you've gotten through all that, I congratulate you and I very much welcome your thoughts and comments! As challenging as this space is, it's a lot of fun to play with ideas for the future and I've been very lucky to have gotten a lot of good advice thus far.

tl;dr- Here's what I think we'll be getting in the immediate future:
Northlight DMX-->analog converter $300
Strand 250ML control console $1900
An 18' multi-purpose rolling scaffold tower $900
2 boom bases $300
3 21' sch 40 pipes $150
4 Airwall hangers  $400
2 Elation 640B dimmer packs $800
DMX and 12/3 cable with connectors $500
Pipe clamps and misc. hardware $250

Total: $5500


Hope everyone is having a good Passover/Easter/Spring Break/Weekend, looking forward to any responses you have!


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## TheLightmaster (Apr 4, 2015)

I would like to point out that Strand might not be the best choice of console here given the educational setting. ETC is basically the standard for theatre consoles these days, and getting students started on an Element might be more appropriate. Budget would be an issue; better to improvise something with Chamsys Magic-Q or Martin M-PC (with a low cost interface) on a dedicated PC with some touchscreens until the ideal console is within your budget. I can vouch for M-PC. does all the things you could need in a small space like that provided you have a multitouch display or a cheapo DMX faderboard and a DMX in (easily doable with martin hardware).


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## theatricalmatt (Apr 4, 2015)

First -- it sounds like you're really into what you're doing, which is incredible. It also sounds like you've thought your gameplan reasonably through, and are willing to consider infrastructural elements, which so often get overlooked or pushed aside. Don't let that go.


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## z2oo (Apr 4, 2015)

Console-wise, I think Nomad could be a good fit, especially for use as a programming client in the future when you have a full sized ETC board. Grab a laptop+touchscreen, or all-in-one touchscreen computer, a Nomad and a Gadget, and you'll be future-proof.

+1 to the infrastructure! If you can do it safely, it'll be fantastic for you.


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## TheLightmaster (Apr 4, 2015)

azylka said:


> Console-wise, I think Nomad could be a good fit


heheheheh, I forgot that was a thing now.


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## manuallyfocused (Apr 4, 2015)

I looked at the Nomad, but cost-wise once you factor in the computer it's not much cheaper than a dedicated control surface option, and the suppliers I've been talking to are leery of us losing the dongle in an academic environment where we have limited access control to the booth (there's a lockable door, but an open window into the auditorium that is easy to climb or reach through). I like that it would give us the ETC syntax, and the option of using either the EOS/ION software or the Cobalt so we have a lot of flexibility in what the students can learn, but I think that by the time we've purchased the Nomad, a control surface, a computer, a touchscreen, and a DMX-USB adapter, we're not going to be far off from stretching to purchase an Element (again, out of our budget for the moment). 

Also, a lot of the people who use the space will be looking to walk into the booth, move a handle or push a button and turn on lights. Having to turn on a computer, open up the software, and then maybe move a physical or virtual handle may be a hard sell for our facilities and maintenance staffs. Not that I would mind teaching them to use it, but I have a feeling they would be resistant on the front end.

Alex, have you spent any time at the Cohoes Music Hall? Is that place still running, or have they set it on fire yet?


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## z2oo (Apr 4, 2015)

manuallyfocused said:


> Alex, have you spent any time at the Cohoes Music Hall? Is that place still running, or have they set it on fire yet?


I haven't, but it's still alive and kicking!

Good point on the walkability of the Nomad, but the cost for the Gadget+Nomad dongle is ~$700, and you can get a Cherry keyboard to act as your keys for under $150. I'm willing to bet the school has a laptop to spare for you. And as to your facilities/maintenance staff's ease of use, why not look into something from Doug Fleenor like the Preset 10 ($650ish)? I think for under $1500, you could have a fully functioning ETC system with architectural presets.


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## Jeff Lelko (Apr 4, 2015)

Hi there,

First of all, best of luck with your new project! I know it can be very exciting planning out and implementing such a plan. I would definitely agree that getting yourself a decent console, dimmers, and electrical infrastructure in place first is a good idea. One thing definitely jumps out to me in your plan - are you sure the Elation 640Bs are the right dimmer for you? Since they are a single phase dimmer, you can only work up to 40A split between two 20A circuits. I've considered those packs many times for my own use, but every time I work the math I end up either throwing away channels due to the 20A limit or throwing away power due to the 6ch specification. I should mention that I'm a mobile operator, so every amp counts in most cases! What's worked better for me is to use a solid 4ch dimmer like the Elation DP DMX-20l or Cyber Pak. They can take 10A per channel and 20A total load, so whether I'm using 575w Source 4s, 500w Par 64s, or 250w Par 38s, I can split things up pretty well to maximize both my channels and my power consumption. I'd vote for 4 of either dimmer I mentioned versus 2 of the 640Bs - the price is roughly comparable and you'll get four more channels. Of course the ETC Smartpacks have higher capacity and can take advantage of your 3-Phase electrical service, but given the higher price your money will probably be better spent on the cheaper Elations. I've used them for upwards of a decade without a single problem.

Regarding your light board, I agree with the others that you may wish to reconsider the Strand unit. I've used a number of Strands in the past and while they're not bad, they're different and I much prefer ETC. Seeing that the 250ML is already about half the price of an Element, I'd save the money and put it towards an Element. That's really the go-to board for a lot of people in similar situations and for good reason. The Ion another great solution as you already know, but even more money still. If it were me, I'd go as cheap as possible with the 'temporary' light board until you can buy a more fully-featured solution. A Scene Setter 48 is a good option to consider for this. Of course you'll sorely miss the memory features you've seen on the Ion, but the fact of the matter is that it'll get you through the show so long as your tech staff knows how to run a show on it. While computer platforms like MagicQ PC or M-PC offer great bang to buck, I'm not sure that's necessarily the right thing to use in this situation. Like you alluded to, some people are uncomfortable working on a PC-only console and it take longer to start up. Most people, especially those that are learning, seem to prefer something they can touch. For a sole operator it comes down to personal preference, but if you're buying something that you intend students to use, keeping with physical hardware would be my recommendation. 

As far as fixtures and future expansion go, definitely rent/demo before buying to see what looks best. Trial and error also comes into play here! Having a theater background myself, I will add that LED isn't always the right solution for everything. Of course a lot of lighting design comes down to artistic personal preference, but I wouldn't change out all your fixtures to LED just for the sake of having LED. There's nothing wrong with conventional Source 4s, 360Qs, etc., and in fact a cheap LED moving head will come nowhere near the output and general usefulness of an S4. At least while things are tight, I suggest sticking to conventionals for a personal inventory (they're versatile, high output, low-cost upkeep) and rent the movers/eye candy effects when you need them. It's just important to think about future expansion when buying a light console to be sure you'll have the headroom you need for the new lights. An Element can handle a few movers and LEDs, though if you're planning quite a few advanced fixtures then you may wish to consider the Ion or something from the Cobalt series. I hope all this helps and again, best of luck with the project!

-Jeff


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## manuallyfocused (Apr 5, 2015)

Jeff, thanks for the suggestion and wisdom on the Elation packs! I was already going to have some trouble getting 2 20A circuits for each of them from plugs in the house, so I think going with the DP DMX-20l packs will probably be better (and it'll let me be more creative with my limited budget). Is there a major difference in durability between them and the Cyber Paks? The only difference I'm seeing is that you can use the cyber pak as a relay pack, but you can't do it individually by channel, and if I have a non-dimmed source it would be an LED or mover and I'd run those off of a power strip or directly from the extension cord. 

The impulse to go all-LED for our house rep plot (not the whole inventory though) was partly motivated by the thought that it would be easier to sell our administration on something that could be spun as environmentally friendly, and that would save us money on our electricity bill (and this might help me get money from our facilities budget as well, and/or apply for grants). Though we're a non-profit dedicated to molding students into well-rounded adults, much of the decision-making in the school remains budget-driven out of necessity. But the point of conventionals being more versatile and far cheaper is well made. I think the upgrade path for fixtures might look something like this: 

-Add some used source4 pars to the inventory, maybe 4 of them this year and another 8 of them next year
-Replace all non-ETC lekos with used Source4s with extra barrel options. That's a total of 17, we'd probably want to get to at least 24 all told
-begin to switch out the Colortran fresnels for ETC Colorsource Pars in our rep plot, up to at least 12 pars
-add a couple of LED or conventional movers to complement
-donate the colortran and altman fixtures to a school or organization that needs them more than we do
-continue spending $1000 or so per year on new fixtures to fill out the inventory until the theater is remodeled and we have a budget to buy a full lighting package

We'd still be renting conventional, LED, and intelligent fixtures for our larger shows, so our board will still have to handle at least 1 universe of control channels. It would take us at least a year or two to purchase an Element or Ion (unless we can find a donor who wants to make that particular gift, or we can work out a payment plan with our supplier), and the easiest way I can justify purchasing a board out of our current budget is by telling the school how much it will save us on our rental for next year. The scenesetter 48, sadly, saves us nothing next year as we cannot run our musical on 48 channels. The Strand gives us enough channels and features that it should save us having to rent the Ion we needed for this year, and if we get it now there should be enough time for me to get up to speed on it well enough that I can teach the students in next year's class and help whatever LD we hire figure out how to program on it. It cost us over $900 to rent the Ion this year for our show (and that was with a 50% discount on the rental fee) so the Strand pays for itself in two years in savings on rental. It would be our 2-3 year control solution until we can dedicate enough money to buy an Ion, or until I convince my supplier that they should buy an Ion and sell it to us slowly over a few years.

I certainly won't purchase it without doing a demo first (after I hack together the DMX-->analog converter so we actually have something to control). Maybe I'll see if I can arrange a side-by-side demo of the Strand board and an Element to get a direct comparison and see just how different they are.


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## Jeff Lelko (Apr 5, 2015)

As far as I know the Elation DP-DMX20l and Cyber Pak would be about the same durability-wise. I haven't taken them both apart to inspect the insides, but I would imagine the critical components are the same or just about the same. The only difference between the two is that the Cyber Pak has some added functionality. In addition to the relay pack function that you pointed out, the Cyber Pak can also accommodate MIDI, remote control, individual channel addressing and a few other options. Most of this won't make much of a difference to you when using a DMX controller, but I will mention that the Cyber Pak has the option to hold its last DMX command should the source fail whereas the DP-DMX20l will just snap to black. In a theatrical setting that can be a big deal, but of course it's up to you to decide if that's worth the extra $50 per pack. The DP-DMX20l was also recently transferred to the American DJ product line while the Cyber Pak is still Elation-branded, in case that matters to you as well. I've been told by Elation that despite the brand transfer, nothing has been changed in the DP-DMX20l except the label. I agree that any LED or moving lights should just be wired to an appropriate receptacle and not through the dimmer, despite it acting in relay pack mode. 

I certainly don't want to open the whole LED vs. conventional debate in this thread, so based on what you've already said I'll assume that you know the long list of pros and cons of each type of instrument. I'd say that heat and power consumption are the primary considerations of conventionals in your situation, while the initial cost and output/quality of light from LEDs will be the main drawbacks of going that route. What might help you decide which way to grow first is to think about how often you'll be using this system. Will it be every day, every week, once a month, twice a year, etc.? If you only use the system once or twice a month the difference in your facility's electric bill (so long as the power is available to begin with) when considering LED versus conventional will be indistinguishable. If you use this system all day everyday, that's a different story. It also may not hurt to take a step back and think about who will be using your stage. Will they be picky about the quality and intensity of the light? Lower dollar LED lights tend to be on the dim side and have trouble producing a decent, usable white with an even field, so that may be something to factor into your decision as well. All that said, I think your revised path forward looks very reasonable.

Definitely demo a few light boards if you can, particularly the Strand ML250. It's definitely not a bad board by any means and it made my short list when considering mid-range boards for personal ownership (though lost out to a Congo Kid). The bang to buck is hard to beat, especially seeing that it has a VGA output built right in along with several other theater-friendly features. I can see how going this route for the time being would help you avoid the need to rent the Ion (and thus save money right out of the gate), but if we're already talking about 2K for a solution then that brings back up the idea of the Nomad or Nomad Puck. If you're really set on the Ion or Element (or Congo/Cobalt for that matter) as a purchase down the road, Nomad will compliment that nicely when the time comes to upgrade whereas buying the Strand is really just a sidestep for the moment and wouldn't be able to be a foundation for future growth. Only you can decide what's the right board for your situation, but you'll know it when you find it! 

-Jeff


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## Max Warasila (Apr 7, 2015)

I responded on the sound thread, but I'll chime in on the console. Most importantly, demo the console before you take the dive, preferably after you have the rest of your lighting system in place. 

When choosing a console for an education environment, I think it is most important to find a console with a gentle learning curve, and is widely used in the live performance industry. For that reason, I do not recommend the Congo series for a school environment. A used Element or Ion are very popular and widely accepted, and is very easy to learn in a pinch. ETC also has top notch support. I've never been a Strand guy myself, but ever since the move to more modern hardware they've become far more reliable and slightly easier to wrap your head around.

However, your eventual fixture choice will determine your console. If you ever get into intelligent lighting more than LED color washes, the Element will not work for you. You also will need to consider whether or not you want an additional system for a basic wash for assemblies so you are not required to be in the venue at undesirable hours.


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## FatherMurphy (Apr 7, 2015)

Regarding LED vs. conventionals, this situation is kind of made for going LED. Not in terms of power usage, heat, or anything like that, but because you don't already have a large inventory of dimmers and lights. A high dollar LED fixture seems pricey as a single unit, but when you consider it to be equal to three incandescent lights accompanied with three dimmer channels (standard three-color stage wash), all of a sudden the money starts to balance out. The upper tier of LEDs are competetively bright, generally smooth fields, and give you every possible color. The trade off is the console must have enough guts to run an LED rig, but it sounds like you're already making that a first step.

If it were me, I'd consider getting just enough dimmers to fill in the front lighting, but then concentrate on making the rest of the stage LED. As far as push-button control for janitors and choir directors, Leprecon and a few others make wall panel controls that can snapshot DMX looks from a console, and reproduce them after the console is disconnected, so you could set up some basic looks and not have to worry about other people trying to figure out the console.


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## Jeff Lelko (Apr 8, 2015)

I definitely agree with Max and encourage the ETC Eos platform (Element/Ion) over the Congo/Cobalt series for this application. Cobalt is a great platform, and the Congo Kid offers suburb bang to buck with enough horsepower to drive a medium sized moving light rig. The only downside is that Cobalt is not intuitive (non-standard syntax and keystrokes for starters). I love it for what I do, but I'm also the sole owner/operator of the console and thus teach-ability was not an issue when making the decision on which console was right for my needs. Having a fair teaching background myself, Eos is the way to go if you end up with an ETC desk. The Element can handle LEDs and movers okay (WAY better than the older Express could), but once you get over a dozen fixtures or so things start getting difficult. If you really think you're going to end up with more movers and LEDs than conventionals, the Ion might be the best choice of the bunch. I can second that ETC's support is top-notch, and your regional sales rep will be happy to guide you towards the right console for your needs. Picking the right console takes a lot of time and patience. You're on the right track though! Ask questions, try to narrow the selection down to a handful of options, and then demo the boards until you know which one is right. 

-Jeff


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## manuallyfocused (Apr 25, 2015)

Progress report- 

The DMX-->Analog converter is built, and successfully tested and functional! Not bad for my first electrical soldering project . Currently demo-ing the Strand 250ML board, and liking the ease of the interface so far. It's got some pretty outdated firmware, so I've gotten the ok from the rep to update it the current firmware before we try to put it through its paces with a few borrowed moving lights. Best thing about it so far is that it turns on instantly, no waiting around for startup, so if we have to power cycle in the middle of a show were not waiting around. Also, it turned out that our instrumental music director was hiding 2 Elation DP415 DMX dimmer packs in the music room (and a partially-dead Elation scenesetter 8), so I can power and control a few lekos for frontlight for our next show! I'm trying to get a demo together for the ETC Element or Ion and the Pathway Cognito so we can get a chance to play with all of them before making our final purchasing decision (our budget can barely fit the Strand right now, but if we decide to go with either alternative option we may be able to borrow against next year's budget to pay for it).

We'll be purchasing a few refurbished Source 4 lekos and parnels to use in time for our current show (and start to standardize our inventory a bit), and a few boom bases to get some sidelight for our dance show next month. I've got a bunch of DMX cable coming in next week. It's 3- and 5-pin Accu-cable, which I realize is on the cheaper end and won't last, but it will get us through our current show. It was much more cost-effective than other options for our immediate needs and I plan to switch out the connectors with Neutriks as they wear out over the next few years. Any new cable, budget permitting, will be TMB with Neutriks from my local supplier (explaining to the bean-counters the difference between a $10 5' cable and a $40 5' cable is a tough sell, but as long as it's "already in the budget" they seem to trust my judgment).

Exciting discovery- Whoever originally built the auditorium (or renovated it before we took over the space) thought ahead and put in 2 double runs of 2" conduit from the stage through the dropped ceiling to the booth (2 each stage right and left). 1 of them stage right has an analog audio snake, but the other three are empty and even have the original wire pull cord still in them (from probably 20-30 years ago). This is extremely lucky, because the moment I started talking to anyone remotely qualified about the plan to run the SOCA cable through the ceiling "temporarily" (which my rigging consultant said was "totally fine and they did it all the time" they told me it was a no-no and a code violation, which seems obvious in retrospect (and correct, based on further research). I'm going to get an electrician to come in and help me look at the possibility of running a bunch of wire through them, adding some junction boxes, and ending up with SOCA inlets in our dimmer room and at least 4 separate SOCA outs over the stage and audience. We'll also dedicate one of the conduits for a bunch of runs of ethernet cable for DMX, Dante, Artnet, ACN? or whatever we need in the future. We can build our dimmer inventory by getting either 12 x 1.2k or 6 x 2.4k packs and tying them in one at a time while keeping the easy SOCA tie-in for rented dimmers. That means no more heavy cable running along the floor!

Also, the school is getting our scissor lift next week! There are now arguments to be had about who gets to use it and when and what that does to our worker's comp classification, but so far I haven't run into too much opposition about our needs in the theater. I've been invited to the lift training class on Wednesday, and sent the head of maintenance my schedule to hang lights for the current show and he seemed pretty easy-going about it. 

Thanks for all the advice so far, I'll continue to update you all as we move forward!


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## Jeff Lelko (Apr 28, 2015)

Glad to hear things are moving along nicely! That's nice that you like the Strand board so far too. You'll find that there will be pros and cons to just about every solution out there. It sounds like the 250ML has more pros than cons for your application, so that might be something to consider. I've never dealt with Strand's tech support and whatnot, so I'm not sure how much community knowledge you can tap on this one. Probably the best thing you have going for the Element (besides its user-friendliness) is that it's a very popular platform - if you don't know how to do something there is no shortage of people that can help you out!

I'm not sure how other users may weigh in, but I've been using Accu Cable for years (in a mobile application) and never had a problem with it, even on very long runs. So long as it's actual DMX cable (which Accu Cable is), I wouldn't worry about upgrading it so long as you aren't having any problems, especially if you're tight on cash.

I'll admit that as a mobile operator, I'm not too knowledgeable on code requirements for installed systems. It's definitely worthwhile to do your homework on this one though! Keep us updated!

-Jeff


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## manuallyfocused (May 12, 2015)

Well, we made it through the show, and the lights did pretty much they were supposed to do, so I can start to turn my attention more fully to infrastructure building. The Strand console is packed up and back to the rep, and we have an ETC Ion coming in on Monday that we'll play with for our dance show next week. 

As the console decision stays up in the air, I'm moving forward on dimming and power distribution. I'm leaning heavily in the direction of fully distributed dimming, aside from the one 12x2.4k colortran pack. I'm thinking of doing the following:

Running 12 circuits (to start with, more for the future) through the existing conduit along each of the side walls of the auditorium (24 circuits total), and terminating each circuit in 1 duplex 20 amp edison plug about 16' up from the floor. I may double up some of these on the stage itself, though for the most part we add many more circuits in the house than on the stage when we do larger shows. The circuits would originate in our dimmer room and terminate at that end with SOCA connectors. For LEDs and distributed dimming, we invest in a 24 circuit power distro with SOCA output (running off of our 100 amp 3 phase cam-loks), and purchase a number of Elation Cyber Pak dimmers (I can get 20 of them used for $60 apiece if I do it right now) so that each circuit can be split into 1 2400w, 2 1200w, or 4 600w dimmed channels depending on our needs. Overall, it should cost us less than $2k (excluding running the circuits, which I haven't gotten a quote for as yet), as opposed to $6k for a 24 x 2.4k dimmer rack, and we get dimmed or switched power anywhere we want with between 20 and 80 control channels depending on how we set it up. If we have a show that needs more traditional dimming, we can rent in a 24 x 2.4k rack with SOCA out, tie it in, and use the Cyber Paks elsewhere to augment. It also gives us flexible capacity for events outside of the auditorium. The only problem will be having to invest in a bunch of NEMA 5-20 adapters and extensions, because our current power cord inventory is all 5-15 and L5-20 connectors.

Is this a crazy plan? In theory it fills our needs, both for dimming capacity and also for a ton of flexibility in what we can do in the future.


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## manuallyfocused (May 12, 2015)

Also, for the MEs out there- how many 20amp circuits can I safely get from our 100 amp 3 phase service? Online calculator says 26, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right.


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## robartsd (May 12, 2015)

I belive you run into a code issue feeding the circuits in conduit via a connector rather than hardwired unless you provide over current protection after the connector.

As far as how many 20 amp circuits you can get from a 100 amp 3 phase service, that depends on your load diversity. If you need to be able to draw 20 amps from each of the circuits simultaneously, you can only get 15 circuits. You may also be limited by your neutral due to triplen harmonics.


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## gafftaper (May 12, 2015)

I have been a bit out of it lately and I'm catching up on some old threads. First off I agree with @FatherMurphy completely. You are a perfect situation to go LED. I would buy a console. Then focus on converting the stage area to all LED. Patch together whatever you can cheap to get by on the front light you have for a while. LED ellipsoidal options are getting better and cheaper all the time. So wait as long as you can on those. 

ETC is the best for reliability, service, and standing behind their products FOREVER! You can't go wrong with an ETC purchase and if you are worried about having a light board that will be just as reliable in 15 years as it is today, buy ETC. Strand has been through a bit of a rough past in terms of service and a lot of corporate buy outs makes a great console. I love my Palette VL and they have been great about service to me over the last 8 years. I find the Strands much more intuitive and easier to teach beginning lighting students on. I've seen two consoles crash a total of 3 times in 8 years of using Strand consoles. Some would say that's enough of a reason alone to buy ETC, I'm still happy with them. As has been said above, ETC is the standard in the pro world, so a little steeper learning curve results in skills you are more likely to use on the job. finally, no one has mentioned our new CB advertiser the Pathway Cognito2 as a light board option. It's based on the old Horizon software which I love (also what the Strand OS is based on). Cognito2 is powerful, easy to use, easy to learn, and cheaper than any of the real console options from ETC and Strand. Is it better? That's a question you have to answer, but it's definitely an option you should consider. Get demos!


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## cbrandt (May 13, 2015)

A good note on the Pathway Cognito2, it has contact closure inputs on the back, so you could install a button or light switch for maintenance or easy run of basic shows.


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## manuallyfocused (May 13, 2015)

We've got an ETC Ion coming in for a demo on Monday, and I just talked to a rep with Pathway who may be able to get us a Cognito2 to play around with. The end of the year is coming up fast, so it'll be a headlong rush to the finish. Now I've just got to figure out how I'm going to light the dance show...


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## RileyChilds (May 13, 2015)

manuallyfocused said:


> Also, for the MEs out there- how many 20amp circuits can I safely get from our 100 amp 3 phase service? Online calculator says 26, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right.


I would agree and say 15, but I am willing to bet you are being limited by the disconnect on the feed, it would be reasonable to replace this disconnect with one that is a higher amperage, of course this assumes your feed comes direct from the MDP.


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## robartsd (May 14, 2015)

You can put 100 amps of load on each leg of a 3 phase 100 amp supply. How many circuits you use to connect that load is up to you. Each circuit must be protected with overcurrent protection up to the ampacity of their installed wiring. The total ampacity (and overcurrent protection) of all circuits on a leg can be greater than the supply in which case you can not use all the ampacity of every circuit at the same time. It is quite common for the sum of the branch circuit ampacity to exceed the supply. ETC has done studies and found that most 20 amp dimmers never see loads greater than 10 amps, but I imagine that we're more likely to work close to the maximum on non-dim circuits-since control is separated from power, it is easy to share the power with more fixtures until the circuit's capacity is used up.

I imagine that for occupancies where the users may not understand the limits of the system (residences, office space, etc.) that the code establishis some reasonable ration that usually works with no issues for those people. In a theater, it is expected that the master eletrician has more understanding so the codes might not provide as much guidance.


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## manuallyfocused (May 14, 2015)

I was getting 26 because I was using 208v instead of 120v for the overall wattage calculation, 15 makes a lot of intuitive sense. The panel that the cam loks draw from is a 225 amp 3 phase panel, and the majority of the loads that draw from it are non-constant loads (one 80-amp 3 phase breaker for our existing 12-channel 2.4k pack, one 70-amp 3 phase breaker for our house lights that are soon to be switched out for an all-LED system that should pull a quarter of the load, the 100-amp breaker for the cam-lok, and about 15 20 amp single-phase breakers for lobby lights, an exterior motorized gate, a motorized projection screen, and a number of things that are not labeled. I understand if we undertake anything that will significantly affect the load I, along with our electrician and building manager, need to do a thorough survey of those loads and make sure any additional load we put on the panel is well within its various capacities). Additionally, in close proximity we have a second 225-amp panel that used to service two now-defunct catering kitchens and most of its power is unused, so I may explore pulling some power from there instead of the backstage panel.

For the power distro setup- if it goes from cam-lok tails to the power distro, which would have integrated breakers on each circuit, to SOCA out, to SOCA inlets on the wall feeding into conduit, at that point we need an additional set of breakers after the connectors on the wall before the circuits feed out to the edison outlets and/or SOCA outlets? Is the theory that someone who doesn't know better could possibly plug something between the cam and the SOCA that does not have its own overcurrent protection device and fry individual circuits before the 100 amp breaker gets thrown?

Because our space is fairly small and we have limited lighting positions and lighting inventory, I don't anticipate using anywhere near all of the capacity of a 24 circuit distro in the near future (possibly ever, as 5-10 years down the line the school hopes to be demolishing our current auditorium and building a purpose-built performing arts center). Would it be better to purchase a 24 circuit distro and be very careful about power calculations, or purchase a 12 circuit distro and be safe no matter what? I have an electrical company with a lot of experience with entertainment installs and power distro fabrication, and I'm having them come in to take a look at everything with me next week. 

Thanks again for all the thoughtful questions and advice, and I will continue to keep you all updated as we progress.


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## manuallyfocused (Jul 6, 2015)

The school year is over, and we squeaked it out with enough left in the budget to purchase an ETC Ion with a 2x10 Fader Wing! I also crammed in 2 new Elation Cyber Paks and a bunch of edison connectors and cable (purchased 250' of SJ cable from Home Depot, but am planning to return it and purchase SO cable from a small supplier for a little bit mroe as the more I'm reading the more I'd prefer to go by the letter of the code when possible). In practice, do theaters often use SJ cable for more than just breakout assemblies? When I purchased 4 50' edison cables from my lighting supplier a few months ago, they came built with SJ cable, so until I read more into it I assumed that SJ was fine for our needs. Was this just them trying to save money? Should I make a big deal out of it and make them take it back?

I had an electrician come in to take a look at our power situation and make a recommendation on what we should do about power, and he felt that our best way forward was to run 20-amp circuits directly from breakers on our two 225-amp panels, and bypass any distro completely. The 2nd panel was originally placed for 2 now-defunct catering kitchens (which I hope to turn into a functional shop/makerspace in the next few years) and is almost completely unused now. We could run the circuits through the empty conduit on both sides of the auditorium ceiling, and have circuits drop down as needed wherever they would be most useful. I'm waiting on a quote from him for doing that work, and in the meantime am getting excited about designing our musical production next year, Urinetown.

My next step is to shop around for some grants to help us begin investing in LED fixtures and other, more sophisticated fixture solutions (very excited about the just-announced Colorsource Spot). I downloaded ETC's grant application, but their next round of application review isn't until November. Are there any other companies or organizations that offer grants for these purposes? Has anyone gone through the ETC grant process? Any advice?


Thanks again!


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## Jeff Lelko (Jul 7, 2015)

Congratulations on your purchase of the ETC Ion! I really think you made the right decision going with that versus a 'lesser' board just to get you by for the time being. I can't comment about your electrical as that's out of my area of expertise, but it definitely sounds like you're making great progress. Best of luck and have fun with it!

-Jeff


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## manuallyfocused (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks Jeff! We're really excited about it.

Turns out the cable question is now moot, I just got a (literal) carload of 12/3 SO cable with stagepin connectors today from a big musical studio and staging company in Burbank that was getting rid of them. Between 500 and 800 feet of cable (according to them it was 560 total, but I think they underestimated the lengths by a lot, will measure in a couple of days) with about 30 sets of stagepin connectors and a beat-up roadcase for $300. Enough to make the rear wheels on my Honda Fit almost hit the wheel wells, and definitely enough to get us by for a while. I took apart one of them and the individual wires have some type of crimp connector that fits into stagepin connectors, and still fits into the Lex PBG connectors I bought! Gonna throw the edison connectors on some of them, keep the stagepin connectors to make adapters as necessary for rented gear (these can be SJ cord, yes?), and cannibalize the rest for short jumpers as needed.


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## masterelectrician2112 (Jul 9, 2015)

Good decision on the SO. The NEC actually requires that minimum 12awg extra hard usage cable (SO) is used for extensions. However, SJ is allowed for breakouts, adapters, and twofers. Perhaps someone can give a more precise code reference since my code book didn't come with me on my summer internship. I know part of it is in article 520. Also for a 100A 3 phase panel, I use an 80% safety factor, so with each phase giving 80A with the safety factor, that gives you (4) 20A circuits per phase for a total of 12 circuits.

This has been an interesting thread to follow! I admire your drive to do the best with what you have. Best of luck to you!


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## derekleffew (Jul 9, 2015)

masterelectrician2112 said:


> Perhaps someone can give a more precise code reference


2011 NEC 520.68 (A) (4) Breakouts
2011 NEC 520.69 Adapters [and two-fers]
http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/se-vs-so-cable-question-for-ship.4420/
http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/sjo-cable-in-a-theater.12527
http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/whats-the-difference-so-vs-sjo.21000/


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## manuallyfocused (Jul 10, 2015)

Turns out it was a lot more cable than they thought. Almost 1600' of what looks like barely used SO cable, though the connectors are a little rough and desperately need their pins properly split. 4x 100', 21x 50', and 5x 25' pieces. Converted 5 of the 50' sections and 3 of the 25' sections to PBG with new connectors (and labels, because the cables came with unused heatshrink tubing!). Need to dismantle 9 10' and 4 50' PBG cords that were made with SJ cable and switch their connectors to the new cables, and then we'll have a pretty useful inventory. Is it worth it to replace old fixture cords with the SJ cable? We have a number of older Colortran fixtures whose cords are made from three wires and a nylon casing (with no strain relief for the connectors), might be a nice way to give them a bit of new life. Debating using the SPG connectors to convert our 24 built-in dimmer pigtails from L5-20 as a first step towards converting everything to SPG one day, but will probably save that for a year or two as we'd need to replace a bunch of 2-fers and 3-fers as well. Also, the administration cut the check for the Ion console today, so it's really real! And we're getting a grant from Nemetschek for educational licenses of Vectorworks that can live on our media lab computers! All in all, a good day.

Separately, I've been roped into a small group of teachers working on plans for a Makerspace at our school. I'm pretty excited, because if we can make it happen it'll be a fantastic resource for all of our programs, and especially (selfishly) for stagecraft as I can offer practical applications for pretty much all of the areas of interest they want to develop. Also, if I have my way it will give me a decent wood/metal shop in the bargain. Has anyone on here had experience interacting with or developing a Maker program? Any advice? I'm also looking forward to the opportunity to add CNC, arduino, and a host of other areas of interest to my skillset if this works out. And I really want an excuse to make the school buy us a small propane forge .

Side note- While I was bringing in the cable today there were a couple of workers installing power and data lines for a projector in the auditorium. There was an electrician running romex through the dropped ceiling to power the projector. This struck me as a bit off, but he said it was to code. I'm sure there's a lot of crap up there already, but I would hope that anything we add would be done the way it's supposed to be done. Can anyone point me to a reference that says yea or nay for a school setting? Most of what I'm finding is that romex is fine in a dropped ceiling for residential but not for commercial/industrial, and I don't want to raise any red flags about it unless I'm sure it should be done differently.


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## manuallyfocused (Jul 30, 2015)

The Ion Console has arrived! (a week ago, but nobody told me, so it got hidden in a closet, but now it's home in the booth!) Next agenda item is transitioning the house lighting to DMX-controlled dimmable LED. We don't have the budget for LED fixtures, so we're going with screw-in LED lamps (the Strand rep did an extensive test, and, big surprise, is recommending a Philips screw-in LED lamp to go with the Strand dimmers) and then replacing our ancient analog Colortran houselight dimmer and slider control stations with something newer.

Our (strand) rep is recommending the following: A few 750w or 1.2k Strand Lightpack dimmers (depending on how many individual areas we want from our 70 or so fixtures, likely 4-6) controlled via DMX by Interactive Technologies Scenestations. Does anyone have experience with either the Lightpack dimmers or the Scenestations? We were trying to come up with the simplest solution for getting DMX dimming control over the houselights, and getting wireless control via smartphone apps so we could avoid putting control stations anywhere besides the booth and backstage. I'm also going to get our ETC rep in to find out what their solution would be.


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## RickR (Aug 6, 2015)

I've used both the Strand dimmers and IT Scene Stations a few times each.

The dimmers are very similar to other "backpack" dimmers intended to run an incandescent off raw power. I used it in an all LED space for some S4s because all they have is wash fixturres. It's an all portable device and for house lights you probably want something to be permanently installed. I think you would get better dimming for less money with a small rack. Maybe an A21 style would give you the 6 dimmers you need. 

The Scene Station is a cute little DMX memory device. It does need to be in-line between the console and the rack so it can record from the board. It will drop off line when the console is on, so it makes for an automatic lockout. More Stations can be scattered around but they become slaves that just report to the master on the DMX line. It's all very neat and clean if you can get them some DC power. 

I suspect the ETC guy will likely suggest a SmartPack Wallmount. They recently made some changes and are calling the new stuff Echo. One nice adder for you is that the wall mount box dimmers can be converted to real relays. So if you ever convert the house to DMX fixtures that won't be an issue. I don't think ETC has a comparable device to the Scene Station, except the Mosaic Tessara panel. That's going to be quite a bit more expensive. It's a network device so using a phone to access it is very possible.


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## Les (Aug 7, 2015)

I'm not sure if I've read this right, but if so I don't think the portable single-dimmers would be a very efficient way of controlling house lights. You pay a lot per-dimmer that way. I am also not sure that it is even legal considering it is a portable device. House lights, being related to life safety, should be completely hardwired. I would definitely push for a rack mount solution. 

You had asked earlier about replacing SJ whips on incandescent fixtures [with a high-temp solution]? Yes, absolutely. I would do that before putting them back in to service.


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## manuallyfocused (Dec 14, 2016)

Well, it's been an eventful year. I thought I'd return and give an update for anyone who's interested.

We're about to go into prep time for our musical production (Grease, this year) and our inventory list is a heck of a lot healthier than it was this time last year. We received a grant a few months after my last post for 12 ETC Colorsource PAR fixtures (Thank you ETC!) which completely changed the way we can light our space and do off-site setups. We also squeezed money for a 12-circuit power distro out of our show budget last year, along with a few hundred feet of sch. 40 pipe, bases, and cheseboroughs. I used a bit of every event budget I could get my hands on to get us some more 3- and 5-pin DMX cable, 4-channel dimmer packs, and other odds and ends, and at the end of last year the parent organization at the school decided to give us funding to replace the auditorium sound system and purchase a few moving head fixtures (4 Chauvet Rogue R2 washes and 2 R2 spots).

We have now gone from renting $7000 in lighting equipment 2 years ago to do our musical production(including console, dimmers, power distro, and support structures) to having the lighting designer walk in this year and be 90% sure he doesn't need to rent anything.

Our next addition is going to be a Nomad dongle for a designer's remote (also teaching tool and offsite console rig so the Ion can move less often) and at the end of this year I'm hoping to finally retire our Colortran zooms and Altman 360s. Running power and data is still a challenge, but at least we now have the cable to make it a little easier. I just got ahold of 80 feet of plenum-rated CAT6 cable, I'm going to throw some 5-pin XLR ends on it and put it through the ceiling to get DMX up to our house pipe position. 

On the sound side we've beefed up our stock of speakers and cabling, and picked up a Behringer X32 console and rack console. We also discovered 10 sets of Sennheiser wireless mics that had been stored in the server room and luckily were brought to my attention before they got recycled.

Thanks for all your help and advice, this thread was extremely useful and I look forward to continuing to share our progress with all of you!


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## EdSavoie (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm curious as to how you ended up with a single scoop...

I mean, two-three scoops I can understand, but one singular scoop?

Anyways, the whole endeavor seems quite interesting, definitely following this thread.


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## JohnD (Dec 15, 2016)

If you are now full time faculty you may be eligible for that ETC student (and faculty) bundle.
http://www.etcconnect.com/Student-Package/


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

Note that the Cat cable is almost certainly solid core, and your DMX connectors are likely expecting stranded wire; that can be a problem.

Also: you can run the Nomad software for design without a dongle, you just can't *drive DMX* that way; you might want to evaluate that before spending money.

Otherwise, that was a fun mini-saga to read, and congrats on your Year As Klinger. Except for the dresses.


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## manuallyfocused (Dec 15, 2016)

EdSavoie- the scoop has been the subject of much curiosity and discussion. My students love it, and insist that we use it in some form for almost every show. I think some of the older inventory came by way of donation from film studios, or ended up there for a project or two and never made it back their original homes. Either way, definitely a mystery.

JohnD- I just got pricing for the educational package yesterday, definitely going that direction! 

Jay Ashworth- Would this be a problem if I terminated the cable in wall-plate receptacles? I was thinking that might be a better option for semi-permanent install than the XLR connectors. 

We currently use Nomad as an off-line editor, but adding the dongle opens up a number of possibilities for us- Using it as a client means our designer can be in the house while the programmer is on the Ion in the booth, and we can use it as a primary along with our 2x10 fader wing when we're doing events outside the auditorium and don't want to lug the Ion around (we use the gym on the other side of campus for Graduation and Open House, and do several off-campus events per year). It will also allow my students to program shows on their own computers, then plug in the dongle and gadget and run their shows directly as well as saving the show and running it from the Ion. And lastly, apparently the Gadget can also be plugged into the Ion and give us 2 additional DMX outputs!

As far as Klinger goes, I never watched MASH so I unfortunately had to google a bit to understand the reference, but I appreciate it now that I understand the context! Of course, I haven't said anything about dresses....


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## Jeff Lelko (Dec 15, 2016)

Hey, thanks for the update! Glad to hear that this are really working out for you. Nomad is a nice product, though if you plan to deploy it regularly I'd strongly consider using a touchscreen monitor or a wing of some sort. Clicking with a mouse gets very old very fast! Good luck!


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 15, 2016)

Ah; you *need* the extra universae. Got it.

As for the wiring, opinions differ as to whether the characteristic impedance of Category cabling meets the spec for DMX. I tend to think it doesn't, without help, but smarter people than me disagree.

In-wall, yes, solid wouldn't be a problem, as long as you were careful how you terminated the wire. I was worried about you putting a 22-24ga solid wire in a solderpot sized for 18ga stranded.

Unless you meant terminating it in Ethercons, and using molded drop/jumper cables, in which case barge forward.


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

I mean, in a pinch I've used 150+ feet of mic cabling without any errors controlling a Geyser RGB and three moving heads, so at least from my experience the proper impedance cable really isn't actually all that critical...


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

Oh sure. But that's not a good justification for scrimping on Permanent Inside Wiring.


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

Of course not, but I'm sure there's a good reason they added Cat cabling for permanent installation.


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

Does anyone manufacture 5-pin DMX connectors, wall-panel or on-cable, with IDC rear-ends for terminating Cat5?


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

In a related story, while the 100 ohm characteristic impedance of Cat5 is right at the recommended lower limit (100-120) for DMX, and the 20pf/ft is fine, how do they handle the spec wanting shield? Cat cable is unshielded twisted pair...

and while it's unreasonably difficult to find the CI of STP, the table here* suggests the shield *raises* it, which I guess works out ok, though I don't know what the capacitance does.

If it's in the standard, though, then connector-termination is my only concern...

* http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/twistedpair.html


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## EdSavoie (Dec 16, 2016)

I don't know of any, and a quick search isn't yielding much for me.

I think the problem with using cat is that the standard implicates using the normal 8P8C connectors as with Ethernet. Creating confusion between normal Ethernet drops (which could be carrying DMX data over a protocol) and an rs-485 run.

If you're wiring new cat, I think you may as well keep it as an Ethernet network and use a pathport output like the ones Gaff Taper uses for devices.


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## GreyWyvern (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I was worried about you putting a 22-24ga solid wire in a solderpot sized for 18ga stranded.


Is there a reason that shouldn't be done?


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## Rob (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Does anyone manufacture 5-pin DMX connectors, wall-panel or on-cable, with IDC rear-ends for terminating Cat5?


We do: See Here. And shortly (Jan 1) we'll have our own IDC connector to go with them as seen in this Control Booth video.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Does anyone manufacture 5-pin DMX connectors, wall-panel or on-cable, with IDC rear-ends for terminating Cat5?


Yes.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## derekleffew (Dec 16, 2016)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Does anyone manufacture 5-pin DMX connectors, wall-panel or on-cable, with IDC rear-ends for terminating Cat5?


From the thread https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/cat-5-for-dmx-in-the-wall-wiring.15892/ :

STEVETERRY said:


> ...
> Seriously, the problem is with stripping the Cat5 without nicking it, making it subject to future fracture. Might work, might not. Why take the chance? Be conservative. The audience will like you for it.
> 
> FYI, ETC makes a CAT5 insulation displacement XLR-5 wall mount, and perhaps others do as well.



Something to possibly consider:
If one installs regular RJ45 connectors and CAT5e wire, one can use http://www.tmb.com/products/82-sneak-snake (other manufacturers offer similar) to enable multiple DMX512 universes.


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## Jay Ashworth (Dec 16, 2016)

GreyWyvern said:


> Is there a reason that shouldn't be done?


It was always my understanding you wanted the conductors to carry most of the current, not the solder. If you're 2-4 gauges down, I don't see how you can avoid it.

Admittedly, there ain't a helluva lot of current in 802.3 or DMX, but...


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## manuallyfocused (Dec 16, 2016)

I had been planning to terminate in 5-pin XLR wall-mounts in the booth and in the ceiling (which I just picked up yesterday from an electronics boneyard), but now I'm thinking ethercon might be a better way to go to open up the option of sending artnet/sACN or DMX as needed depending on the adapter that gets plugged in. This is a semi-permanent installation, I'm using the plenum-rated cable so I don't have to pull it through conduit and to keep my own labor to a minimum. The cable was essentially free as it was leftover from another project.

The majority of what I've read on here points to Cat5/6 as a reasonable alternative to proper DMX cable, and the variety of adapters available from TMB's sneaksnake to RJ45/5-pin XLR boxes makes it seem pretty low-risk to me...


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## Rob (Dec 16, 2016)

manuallyfocused said:


> The majority of what I've read on here points to Cat5/6 as a reasonable alternative to proper DMX cable


It's not a 'reasonable' alternative. It is 'accepted' in the standard ANSI E1.27-2: STANDARD WIRING PRACTICE FOR PERMANENTLY INSTALLED CONTROL CABLES FOR USE WITH ANSI E1.11 DMX512-A See here. And here.


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## Chris Pflieger (Dec 20, 2016)

Rob said:


> It's not a 'reasonable' alternative. It is 'accepted' in the standard ANSI E1.27-2: STANDARD WIRING PRACTICE FOR PERMANENTLY INSTALLED CONTROL CABLES FOR USE WITH ANSI E1.11 DMX512-A See here. And here.



Why can't it be reasonable AND acceptable?


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## RonHebbard (Dec 20, 2016)

Chris Pflieger said:


> Why can't it be reasonable AND acceptable?


Touche! (It is, of course.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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