# Genie Lifts



## CSCTech (Jun 10, 2010)

Hey everyone, I have always heard people talking about 'Genie Lifts', but couldnt actually find much on them. I kind of got they are a sort of lift intended for focusing and for accessing deadhung battens. 

Where would one purchase one of these and how much do they useally go for?

Not sure depending on cost if I would bring this up. Might be useful for the buildings maintenance dept. as well.

Not a big fan of ladders! (Fixed FOH position no catwalk)


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## MisterTim (Jun 10, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> Hey everyone, I have always heard people talking about 'Genie Lifts', but couldnt actually find much on them. I kind of got they are a sort of lift intended for focusing and for accessing deadhung battens.
> 
> Where would one purchase one of these and how much do they useally go for?
> 
> ...



They're called Ariel Work Platforms, or AWPs. Here is the one we use in our theater, here is the whole family of products. I think ours is the tallest model they have, going up to around 45' (it's awesome for doing things like changing gym lights too); there are shorter ones for cheaper too. There's a link to find dealers on that page, call up a local one. 

As far as the price, estimated $3000-$10,000 new for the various heights and models, but you could get one used for cheaper, like this one.


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## CSCTech (Jun 10, 2010)

Great, thanks so much Tim.
Wow, a lot less expensive then I was thinking.
We do not have any portable systems so I wouldnt need to go that high (Gyms). I actually only need a fairly small one, I have no idea the height of our FOH electric but it is not that high, but a genie would sure beat the heck out of our current ladder. And would be so nice for focusing even our flown electrics because im sure everyone knows how hard it is focusing on deck level.


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## MisterTim (Jun 10, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> Great, thanks so much Tim.
> Wow, a lot less expensive then I was thinking.
> We do not have any portable systems so I wouldnt need to go that high (Gyms). I actually only need a fairly small one, I have no idea the height of our FOH electric but it is not that high, but a genie would sure beat the heck out of our current ladder. And would be so nice for focusing even our flown electrics because im sure everyone knows how hard it is focusing on deck level.


 
Our FOH lights are 30 feet above a slanted floor. (they're further into the house than most) We used to have to put an extension ladder up into nowhere and balance it on the edge of the cove. Trust me, you'll love the genie. Battery-powered hours of vertical awesome. =]


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## Studio (Jun 10, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> Our FOH lights are 30 feet above a slanted floor. (they're further into the house than most) We used to have to put an extension ladder up into nowhere and balance it on the edge of the cove. Trust me, you'll love the genie. Battery-powered hours of vertical awesome. =]



How do you do geine lifts on a slanted floor? (never worked with one but my school has one (now to get them to let us use it to change florescent bulbs 40' up)


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## zmb (Jun 10, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> Our FOH lights are 30 feet above a slanted floor. (they're further into the house than most) We used to have to put an extension ladder up into nowhere and balance it on the edge of the cove. Trust me, you'll love the genie. Battery-powered hours of vertical awesome. =]


 
I'm not sure if the battery life and charge spend have been improved, but at one theatre I've been with a Genie you could only focus a couple instruments before having to recharge which takes a long time.


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## Sony (Jun 10, 2010)

Studio said:


> How do you do geine lifts on a slanted floor? (never worked with one but my school has one (now to get them to let us use it to change florescent bulbs 40' up)



Genie makes a piece of equipment called a Super Straddle 


Super-Straddle™

which allows you to jack the genie off the ground and rake it to match the floor slant up to I think 15 degrees. You can also adjust how far the outriggers are spaced so you can slide it sideways through the seating in order to access house lighting fixtures above the audience without having to unbolt and move rows of seats.


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## MisterTim (Jun 10, 2010)

Studio said:


> How do you do geine lifts on a slanted floor? (never worked with one but my school has one (now to get them to let us use it to change florescent bulbs 40' up)


 
They have stabilizing legs that come out with cranks that adjust to the ground. Outriggers, I believe they're called. It's not much of a slant, so it's not hard to compensate with them. 

We also have the 'super straddle' wheelbase attachment, which allows us to roll between and work over the seats in the house. Edit: Sony beat me to this. 


zmb said:


> I'm not sure if the battery life and charge spend have been improved, but at one theatre I've been with a Genie you could only focus a couple instruments before having to recharge which takes a long time.


 
Ours is about 5 years old, and we can focus all the FOH lights (14 if i recall correctly) without even having to think about battery. I can't give you good specs because I'm not usually the one using the genie, but it's not that bad. And I can't seem to find any specs on battery life in the product brochures...odd...


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## Footer (Jun 10, 2010)

zmb said:


> I'm not sure if the battery life and charge spend have been improved, but at one theatre I've been with a Genie you could only focus a couple instruments before having to recharge which takes a long time.



Genie's batterys are usually unsealed and therefore need to be topped off with distilled water every so often. Genie batteries are used pretty hard and need yearly maintenance/replacement in many facilities. Even the old "good" genies can go an entire call on a charge if maintenance often.


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## KeepOnTruckin (Jun 11, 2010)

As said above, the genie battery needs normal maintenence to keep it running. If that is going to be a problem, then you can also get a model that only takes regular AC current, but then of course you have to be tethered to a wall.

Before you get all crazy-happy about the Genie AWP, note that it has 3 inconveniences. First, it can only do a slight incline without the super straddle, which I have never seen used. If your aisles are steep, you will have difficulty cranking the manual screw jacks to level it, not to mention holding it in place on the incline while it is leveled.

Also, the AWP series is NOT designed to be moved while the basket is raised. You are supposed to come down, un-crank the outriggers, move, crank the legs down and then go up. This is quite tedious. Some people omit this step and just push the person around while the basket is up. You are not supposed to do this. 

and lastly, it has little sensors to detect if the outriggers are installed properly. They can fail, which makes it hard to go up, and some people think up ways to circumvent them, so as to make it easier to push people around with the basket raised.


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 11, 2010)

One house I worked in we purchased a secondary battery housing so that we could remove one when it was dead and keep working on the backup. Before that we would either have to allow the unsafe procedure of moving the lift in the upright position or work would be halted after one electric. And that was with new batteries each season.

Personally, I prefer to have the lifts with AC power in the theater setting. The battery system is great for arenas or for outdoor use where AC isn't as readily available or will get in the way.


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## derekleffew (Jun 11, 2010)

It might be worth noting that some people use the term "Genie Lift" to refer to any single person, vertical mast, aerial work platform aka personnel lift, aka (but no longer politically proper) man lift. Similar products are manufactured by JLG, UpRight, and many others.

The only models designed to be moved with the platform elevated are the self-propelled models, such as the Genie Runabout-series and JLG 20MSP.

As for where to purchase, Google "YourCity, equipment rental". Sunbelt Rentals and RSC are two well-known national companies.


CSCTech said:


> ... because im sure everyone knows how hard it is focusing on deck level.


See the wiki entry bounce focus. Betcha didn't even know the method you use had an official name, didya?


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## CSCTech (Jun 11, 2010)

Hmm, a Genie, or even ManLift would help us so much. I will definelty bring it up sometime (But I kind of already got past a new sound system, booth construction, followspot and lightboard for this year!).
I am sure the maintenance would love this aswell so now they wouldnt have to change the houselamps for us anymore..which take about, all year to do so..
I never tried changing the houselamps myself, I think our ladder would fit evenly between seats though, because to focus foh we have the step side in the third row aisle and the rung side is infront of the first row, the pit.

Our aisle are on a slight incline, not sure how much, but not very steep at all, and it just starts under our foh electric so shouldnt be a problem, but might even ask for a super straddle included since then we could change the lamps. And thinking of it, I dont think we would be able to use it without a SS for our FOH because it is above the second row.
I think an AC power version would be nice, just need a long extension cord, no problem. 

They must be pushed/pulled manually yes? And the RunAbout has a motorized propulsion?


Haha Derek, nope, first time I heard of Bounce Focusing


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## MisterTim (Jun 11, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> I never tried changing the houselamps myself, I think our ladder would fit evenly between seats though, because to focus foh we have the step side in the third row aisle and the rung side is infront of the first row, the pit.



Chances are that your school's insurance will not let any student anywhere near a genie lift. Just throwing this out there because as I know from personal experience, it's very easily ignored, and if the wrong person were to catch a high school student on a genie lift at my high school, the whole theater program would have been shut down. Or at least the 'students in tech crew' part of it.


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## CSCTech (Jun 11, 2010)

MisterTim,

Oh well of course. I would have to explain the benefits of a Genie anyways and it would most likely be decided to have someone come in to teach a few people to use the genie and only those persons would be permitted to use it. Would probably be locked in our closest as it does say it fits through doorways.

But yeah, if we do get one, it would be mostly ganitorial staff using it and probably only other person be me. And if it is brought up by me as a way to easily access our FOH electric I would hope it is implied I/other tech crew would be using it.

But hey, I guess I will have to see if they go for it in the first place.


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## Sony (Jun 11, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> Chances are that your school's insurance will not let any student anywhere near a genie lift. Just throwing this out there because as I know from personal experience, it's very easily ignored, and if the wrong person were to catch a high school student on a genie lift at my high school, the whole theater program would have been shut down. Or at least the 'students in tech crew' part of it.



It REALLY depends on the school. All the high schools I have worked at have allowed students in Genie lifts as long as they are properly trained, supervised and wearing proper PPE. Again it depends on how liberal your school is and also probably on your students reputation for being responsible. I know at NNHS we are a highly vocational/trade oriented school and therefore kids are using dangerous equipment like power tools every day during class and therefore our school wide insurance policy covers students and the use of said tools and we are highly committed to safety with inspectors coming through on a regular basis unannounced.


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## KeepOnTruckin (Jun 12, 2010)

Start out with the AWP or similar, not-self-propelled model. When used properly, a genie is safer than a ladder, becuase its virtually impossible to fall. (Just don't stand on the handrails) And since you cant drive it, theres no way for you to accidentally drive off the stage.


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## renegadeblack (Jun 14, 2010)

The school from which I'll be graduation from tomorrow has an AWP as does every other high school I've worked at. Students have also been allowed to use the lift at every school that I've worked at. They require the students to be supervised ofcourse, and I suspect that it's more of an exception that techs are allowed in the lift as they trust us (for the most part).

It's a great thing to have. We don't have a battery operated model and I honestly see no need for one as there's always an outlet somewhere nearby.


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## dcollins (Jun 14, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> They're called Ariel Work Platforms, or AWPs.


Ariel is the Disney princess. Aerial is a word meaning 'in the air'. (Arial is a mediocre but commonly-used sans-serif typeface.)
</Pedant>


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## derekleffew (Jun 14, 2010)

dcollins said:


> Ariel is *the* Disney princess. ...


<Pendant> Should read "Ariel is *a* Disney princess." Now, I lost interest in Disney animated movies shortly after _The Jungle Book_, but I know better than to piss off Cinderella, Show White, Belle,_ et al_. Those be some fierce b!tches


Princesse disney : Les merveilleuses princesses de Disney
</Pendant>


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## Les (Jun 14, 2010)

Genies are great, but the odds that you will be able to convince your school to purchase one (let alone weather the actual approval and purchasing process) before you graduate are pretty slim. You might have better luck raising the funds to buy a scaffold. If used correctly, they are very safe and efficient.

If I had the storage space, I wouldn't mind hanging and focusing from one of these:


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## CSCTech (Jun 14, 2010)

Les,

That is a great idea. I suppose we could keep it behind the rear traveler, not sure how I would get it through the doors though!


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## MisterTim (Jun 14, 2010)

CSCTech said:


> Les,
> 
> That is a great idea. I suppose we could keep it behind the rear traveler, not sure how I would get it through the doors though!


 
You tilt it to get through the door. We have one of those too, and it's nice for set construction, but not tall enough to focus at height, so you might as well just do it on the deck.


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## HSSBO94 (Jun 15, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> Chances are that your school's insurance will not let any student anywhere near a genie lift. Just throwing this out there because as I know from personal experience, it's very easily ignored, and if the wrong person were to catch a high school student on a genie lift at my high school, the whole theater program would have been shut down. Or at least the 'students in tech crew' part of it.



This happened in our school for a while

We used genies all of Freshman year after two days of safety sessions with out teacher.
A month into Sophmore year the head of our department told us we couldn't use them anymore.
After getting a bunch of forms signed and the theatre needing to do a huge focus for the musical we were finally allowed in genies again about 4 months later.

While I understand how genies can be dangerous if they are not used properly, the ways we focused without the genies were worse (I'm not going to say funny since safety isn't a joke, but certainly worth scratching your head over) such as putting our 15 foot ladder on top of our rolling 12 foot set piece and just using rope to secure the ladder :shock:


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## KeepOnTruckin (Jun 15, 2010)

I think most school systems expect that the lights will rarely ever need to be moved, and so they can just get a janitor to adjust the lights from the genie. No need to teach students how to use it properly or get a ladder or anything like that, right? (sarcasm)


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## dust4sound (Jun 25, 2010)

Most of that is better then hanging lights from an A-Frame ladder like this: 
Les should know, as we've been there done that, also incase the designers hide any mike inputs center stage behind the teaser.


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## avkid (Jun 25, 2010)

dust4sound said:


> Most of that is better then hanging lights from an A-Frame ladder like this:


A frame extensions are a tool of the devil.


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## derekleffew (Jun 25, 2010)

avkid said:


> A frame extensions are a tool of the devil.


You must be right avkid, as I saw one (with a castered dolly) last night on _Glee_.


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## GreyWyvern (Jun 25, 2010)

dust4sound said:


> ...the designers hide any *mike* inputs center stage behind the teaser.



I wonder if we should make a Wiki entry for Mike as there seems to be some confusion. It could read as follows:

Mike is a shortened version of a name, not to be confused with Mic, a shortened version of Microphone.


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## TEarlywine (Jun 25, 2010)

visions of summerstock dance in my head: straddling the top of a dollied a-frame extension at a 3am focus.


derekleffew said:


> You must be right avkid, as I saw one (with a castered dolly) last night on _Glee_.


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## producer (Jun 28, 2010)

Thankfully, I've never been subjected to an A-frame extension ladder. I used to demand a scissor jack lift as a student for focus days and generally got them. (my High school theatre was in reality a multipurpose room with no actual stage and only 35 feet high. 12 channel 1.2k dimmer. if that gives you an idea of how much overkill it was). Since my departure, the drama head got wise (heh heh) and purchased scaffolding that they shared with the maitnance dept. Oh, and the cursed extension ladder. 

At the Church i work at we have a Genie and straddle. Sure the straddle works, but there's a reason we call it "Nick". To this day, no one knows how the scratches and notches in the wooden pews got there......


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