# Most hated equipment



## BNBSound (Mar 25, 2005)

What piece of gear is first on your list of things to blow up when you finally get your pyro licence?

Mine's my Mackie power amps. Let me just say... "Don't belieev the hype!"


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## Mayhem (Mar 25, 2005)

Interesting topic and whilst I have had my professional pyro licence for several years, I cannot recall blowing any of my equipment up.

Perhaps this is because my philosophy is that (unless it is broken) it is going to be good to someone. I was really lucky when I started out in that a lot of my initial gear was either donated to me (sometimes through generosity and other times because it was a tax loss if it went missing from the original owners inventory), purchased second hand at a very good price or I have fixed stuff that had simply been tossed out. Even today, I am in a position where I get very good deals on some new equipment, and I still take abandoned gear, fix it and give it a new home.

I have also been able to build some of my equipment as well, which has really helped out with the cash.

Over the years I have sold or traded for better equipment as the money has come in and whilst I will often warn people about buying “lesser” brands, if they can afford something a littler higher up the food chain. However, if that is all they can afford, or if they have a plan to buy that and earn some money so they can upgrade, they have my total support.

Remember, at the end of the day you need to have something to enable you to do the work and earn the money. As soon as you are profitable, you can sell the old and buy better. If you have nothing to start with, it makes it more difficult to earn a buck.

For me to throw something away or blow it to bits – it would have to be beyond repair (either to the cost involved or the scale). In fact, if it were working and I had no use for it I would give it to someone who would benefit from it. 

This is not to say that I have not had days where I would just love to send something on its way with a thundering ka-boom and puff of acrid smoke. I don’t want this to sound like me saying that my philosophy is right and yours is wrong, as that is not what this is about. I am simply sharing my views and offering a little info on why I have these views and values.


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## ccfan213 (Mar 25, 2005)

i have my share of equipment i would love to get rid of, i checked off the "alll the school can afford" thing in the pole, even though that is only partly true. as far as lighting, all our fixtures and the circuits onstage are crap and extremely old. this really pisses me off because in 99 they ran new dmx and replaced the dimmers, but we are still using incredibly old lights... the other part is that the administrator in charge of tech does not understand the necessity for quality. the district just spent about 60K on a new sound system, but he makes me use those crappy akg mics that are like 5 for $100, i have been borrowing sm58s lately but he wont buy us any.... also, while im on my rant about stupid stuff with the new sound system, he wont let me move the board into the house, so im mixing from a horrible booth that sounds completely different from house!


ok my rant is done... for now


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## ship (Mar 25, 2005)

ccfan213 said:


> ... this really pisses me off because in 99 they ran new dmx and replaced the dimmers, but we are still using incredibly old lights...
> 
> the other part is that the administrator in charge of tech does not understand the necessity for quality.
> 
> ...



And cited as a rant and not complaining, it still sounds like you have spoiled expectations of what you should be given,

verses the realization of the reality of what you have so far and acceptance of what's done so far and what you must now do to make it live up to your expectations of what you should be given as if a toy and not making art with what you have. No I don't know $20.00 microphones but do know what is now $20.oo might be of use to others given lesser budgets, or in comparison to real art made no matter the microphone in the past, no doubt much more quality than others have had to work with.

Seems a more excuse by way of equipment and lack of being handed the world standing in your way than making the most of what you have.

Anyway this is just my impression of what's said that hopefully while you no doubt do the best with what you have and are thankful for what you have, it's just those other goals not hardships put in front of you that prevents both art and enjoyment from taking place for you and others you present to.

As for incredibly old lights... same statement. If Appia and Craig could design without Lekos, and others such as Tipton and Rosenthal could given a pallet of incandescent ancient versions, also make art, it might be expressed that as with sound, it's not just the equipment standing in the way of the magic.

If you don't have pneumatic staple guns, you use screw guns and drywall screws. If you don't have them you use clout nails in making a soft flat. No matter the fastener, the flat is the same in the end. Theater art is without specific toys as a necessity they enhanse but are not the end to this either.


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## BNBSound (Mar 25, 2005)

Ahh, therin lies the rub: He who can still mix a good show from any "where", any "how" will always be collecting fat checks. The trick for my brother who is exiled to the crappy sounding booth is to take frequent walks out to the house during rehearsals untill you know all the differences between how the two sound. Taking a few strolls has saved my mixes often, when stuck under or in a balcony, under the lighting guy's truck... wherever.


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## ship (Mar 25, 2005)

Back to the question at hand. I used to have a 5' aluminum ladder in the store room I'm charged with stocking. Along the back side of it, perhaps one out of four rungs was not broken. This in additon to paint step gone and spreaders kind of working at least correctly.

I finally had enough of the ladder about five years after it had become this bad. Didn't ask, just signed out one of the Menards cards - in this case the one with the General Manager's name on it, and got myself a new ladder.

Nobody told me to replace the ladder nor said keep it besides me dealing with all these years something that worked to some extent and would not be stolen by the production people as another specific reason not to replace it.

So I bought a new fiberglass 4' ladder. No 5' ones available. Within a week, production people were already swiping it, but it was too late to go back to the old ladder.

Instead of pyroing it, I turned it into easily recyclable materials one foot at a time with a Sawzall. This thing did not come apart easily, much less people across the other end of a large shop were upset with me for making so much noise - it was also not quiet to take apart.

It would seem everyone in the shop knew at that point what I was doing, but given the look about me would not stop me from making all that noise. No doubt they had at some point also climbed that ladder in wondering if it's legs would finally just kick out on you.

That was a good day and one that had been years in the coming.


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## bdesmond (Mar 26, 2005)

I'm an option 3 type myself. Back in the day when I knew damn near nothing about IT, I spec'ed a few machines. Now the manufacturer gives recommended specs for the what if environment - high load, the works. Gotta know the environment you're spec'ing the equipment for in addition to the task it's going to perform. Think of it as spec'ing air force one to get your alderman to city hall. Now I spend far too much time complaining when people overspec equipment. One of my big pet peeves. No need for a ten pound bag and a five pound job.


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## ccfan213 (Mar 26, 2005)

ship: granted i may be a little greedy with the mics, but i know the school can afford it and is just being cheap. i forgot to mention the dangerous condition of our circuits and lights, the wiring is exposed, and there are abiout half as many safety cables as there are fixtures. two weeks ago when someone touched a wire, he didnt realize it was exposed, and iit burned a hole in his glove, and three weeks ago someone was shocked. 

BNBsound: i often leave the booth to mix during concerts and stuff to hear the house, but because i am constantly muting and un-muting people during shows i cant get up and go outside to hear, and i have not had the opportunity during rehearsals to hear how things sound, i only got the rented wireless two hours before dress rehearsal,


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## Drmafreek (Mar 26, 2005)

Ship:
I must say, I've enjoying reading your posts over the past year. Been lurking mostly and just started posting. I agree with you on what Appia and Craig could do with very little. Appia is my hero, and probably one of the best of all times. The difference is this though. The audience had never seen anything like that before. It was knew to them, and exciting. In this day and age of moving lights and computer enhanced sound, audiences want more than ever. 

Having said that, I almost prefer to work with less. I've working in black boxes with 12 circuits, 10 6" fresnels and a couple of 3.5" elipsoidals. And I must say, the most fun ever designing that type of show. I'm coming up on my first show in our big theatre and we have somewhere around 212 circuits to work with. Don't know the exacts yet, I'm still pretty new here. But I can already tell that it's not goning to be nearly as fun.

That's just my $.02


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## ship (Mar 27, 2005)

I can remember back in the past sound people in a theater noting something like 20Db’s difference between the lower level and balcany - much less no ability to mix from the boxes off to the sides.

Still, given they realized some amount of techical specifications between where they ran sound, and even what specific parts of the audience would hear as opposed to others, they were able to do the mix no matter where located once the audience was let into the theater and for the most part changes stopped. Is it perhaps not possible to do your mix where you need, than move the board to where it must be in running the show?

Fixture wiring is not something that needs replacement by new gear, it just requires due care and supervision of it thus by those using it. Hmm, you note unsafe gear and someone using it burned thru his or her glove. Buy a new fixture, or disqualify that fixture from use before ever powered up might be in question here. Sorry and I recognize your efforts - understand me here, but still that you state as lack of investment is it seems in most ways a lack of investment in skill and time than something new gear will fix.

So yes, perhaps these cheap microphones are crap, and perhaps the school in investing huge amounts in other things are not investing in the less expensive and extensive parts of the system. Still the requirement is to do the best you have and make magic with what you have. Making your punch list for goals known by those that have a track record for investing in your theater will be helpful, but such things are also expected to be dealt with in having patience or stress on necessity over other things or paying off bills for what you already have.

I remember back in the day, I loaned some Nachamichi microphones to the theater. They were high priced and helped the sound people some. Such sound people of course found much more use in the shotgun microphone and sub-woofers, but they helped. In the end, given no doubt similar $20.00 microphones, the above on loan, and the single shot gun without wireless, they still did their best to do their job. There was goals but reality of the now also put them to work.

Drmafreek,
Read further into Appia. Yes, to some extent he made revolutionary innovations into lighting such as similar to the latest in moving light gear in an audience following as if the newest movie watching in liking or not these new developments, but also in doing his design and using what he had available, he made magic with it in presenting the support of the show in using stock gear - just in a new way. Me, I’m a Craig and Brecht designer - Neiher person by faith. Caspar Neiher created quite the designs all thru his career without modern technology. Craig like Appia invisioned things but when it came down to it, created it with what was available as my point. This in Craig in having a dream but only a few realized shows being the point especially. While he had vision, he at times would not compromise in making art with what he had available and necessary. You can walk from a productioin or you can do the best with what you have given the Neiher example. Art is still something that has been made over the years given those using the equipment to it’s extent useful, much less to it’s greatest extent. 

Audiences expecting glammor and bang for their buck are a problem - just as on a technical sense, the intensity of light on stage has risen in expectations over the years. Key here is still to make art with what you have available and overcome the hardships in doing so. In your having fun with overcoming problems, it’s the key factor here. A moving light is a tool and of no more value than a carbon arc source where appropriate in your pallet. Given a more limited source of paint, you have to both make do with and still make art with what you have or can come up with given intent.

You will find even 212 circuits also limited and the challenge that’s the life to your design intent of making it realized and good.

If of help, and welcome to the forum by the way, it would seem you are split between the art they produced and the expectatations of giving the audience what you think they expect. The audience still viewing theater is a fickle bunch between the grandparents that would see the kids using bedsheets for capes and thinking it good, the parents in seeing the kids on stage and fighting for prime video tape camera space, the Broadway person expecting a show worth the ticket price and the faithful that will watch a black box show with crap effects for it’s story. Who is your audience, is only part of a factor in what you can get away with but not the goal. The goal is to make art no matter who is watching the show. This is what Appia will have been doing you recognized. No matter the equipment or intensity on stage, art in a show when supporting a production that’s making use of the effort - and the lights or sound not overpowering it as a problem, that art in lighting balance can be done no matter if ray lights or moving lights in supplement of the show given good design. Separate the paint in the pallet with proper beam angle and intent of use. 

In reading my past posts, one might find info about a show I forget the title to where there was a suspected Hitler character on stage many years after his demise. The actor playing him could find his Hitler light anywhere on stage. This beam angle and in general intensity given even a single Leko was all this actor needed to put his presentation over the top of what he already was doing to make that question essential to the story. It by research was the exact angle needed to make him most seem like the Hitler of past news reel images of the monster. That’s the extent of the special effects - one Leko with even a EHD lamp in it that otherwise disappeared on stage and was invisible.

At least by way of me seeing it, or gauging the audience, this actor in helped by and using his special lighting beam was making art to a level similar and even more so than what some Park Ave nue resident might expect in NY to something large profile. They did enjoy the production even if by far more simple. Art was made. This enhansement of the performance can be in part because of the tools available in doing so, but is not dependant upon it. Much less the audience for this show were in no less enjoyment given this single specifically positioned Leko and not much else for better than normal lighting design, or expectations of them needing glitz, they did enjoy the show.

If you have a AF-1000 strobe light available in your pallet and it might be useful to a scene, use it. If your scene it would seem needs one but you don't have one, you overcome and come up with another solution.

Just design, let the TD figure out how to make it happen. This as opposed to retarding your design to make it work.


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## ccfan213 (Mar 27, 2005)

the school wont let me move the board. they have had several professional sound techs, including the company who put in the system and someone who has mixed on broadway and major concert tours tell them it is nearly impossible ot mix from the booth, and the original plan that the principal approved had the board outside, but the asst principal changed the plan at the last minute and wont let us move the board. the same guy is unlikely to let us fix the wiring, i dont know much about how to do it and idk if my ld does or not and i would not want to experiment with that kind of thing without actually knowing what im doing. but i am in the process of trying to get them to call an electician to come fix everything up.


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## Mayhem (Mar 28, 2005)

ccfan213 said:


> i forgot to mention the dangerous condition of our circuits and lights, the wiring is exposed, and there are abiout half as many safety cables as there are fixtures. two weeks ago when someone touched a wire, he didnt realize it was exposed, and iit burned a hole in his glove, and three weeks ago someone was shocked.



Hi Matt,

This is a definite safety issue and I am sure that you would sacrifice your new mics for the money to be used to rectify such things.

Regardless of where the board is or should be, the wiring should be fixed and if it has not already been brought to the attention of the school administration, it should be. Essentially, this issue has been present and known about for at least a month and quite frankly is unacceptable.

I would also hope that such accidents are reported to the administration and documented somewhere. What can seem a minor shock can later manifest as something a little more serious.

Obviously there is only so much you can do (or should do as a student) but the school has a responsibility to students. However, unless such issues are brought to their attention, there is little hope of a resolution.


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## ccfan213 (Mar 28, 2005)

our assistant principal has done nothing, even though we have told him several times over the last 6 months. sometime this week the guy whose glove cought on fire (he is a professional hired by the drama dept) is meeting with the head of the arts dept for the entire district because the school clearly wont do anything.


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## agave (Mar 29, 2005)

My most hated equipment: Is it made by Kliegl Bros?


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## Mayhem (Mar 29, 2005)

ccfan213 said:


> our assistant principal has done nothing, even though we have told him several times over the last 6 months. sometime this week the guy whose glove cought on fire (he is a professional hired by the drama dept) is meeting with the head of the arts dept for the entire district because the school clearly wont do anything.



It amazes me how someone in the position of A/Principal can simply ignore such incidents. Has anyone gone over their head and taken the problem directly to the Principal?

Hopefully the fact that this is now being taken outside of the school administration may just embarrass them enough to change their policy. Although, it shouldn’t have to come to this.


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## ship (Mar 30, 2005)

agave said:


> My most hated equipment: Is it made by Kliegl Bros?



Normally that's a "Is it Altman" question. Were I to choose a stage version of a Fresnel, it would be a Kliegl with it's screw adjusting crank once upgraded to stuff like grounede.

No matter the gear, while I'm opposed to destroying gear, when unsafe cutting the plug off in not making it usable without repair is a good standard for normal other than $2.00 per pin multi-cable gear. I would hope that in the case of the fixture that arched into someone's glove that it's plug was cut off while un-plugged, and the fixture was brought down for repair.

Such gear with supervision often can be and should be repaired by students as a maintinence type of educational thing. This given proper supervision. Anyone ever look at the metallic inner sleeve of many fiberglass braided sleeves over cable whips? While it certainly helps to repell heat, it also in a short will without a doubt be waiting for someone to make contact with the whip as opposed to just conductor in a short condition.

Anyway, my own stress is still that fixture maintinence is less principal or electrician responsibility than that of the students to learn how to do when they have supervision. Otherwise if you lack instruction, the same cutting and taking out of the inventory is still valid, only such equipment waiting upon you to fix with supervision or on a service call will at some point lessen the amount of fixtures available for use. This number than will be a graphic number of those in need of repar that need funding and attention verses those left in service.

If you need a rule on unsafe fixtures:

You cut the plug off the equipment not servicable, and if the administration has a problem with you doing so - given you otherwise lack proper supervision in fixing it or teaching you to fix it, - you just have them contact me directly. Not only am I on a first name basis with many manufacturer's engineering reps, but I'm no slouch myself. My rule, what gear can't be safe or within proper supervision repaired, it's made so it cannot be used and taken out of service. 

Gimmie a break on being other than reasonalble but for the most part there is a difference between taking a sledge hammer to gear you don't like and what burns a hole thru someone's glove.


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## squigish (Mar 30, 2005)

My most hated equipment? My electro controls plug strips and channel mounts.


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## ccfan213 (Mar 30, 2005)

i cant go to any other admin because all they will do is go tell the same guy, who will do nothing. there is no one in our school who can provide us with proper supervision to put new plugs on, but the district electrician came today and said he will be back tommorow with stagepins  so hopefully i will have safe equipment by the show im doing this weekend.


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## falcon (Mar 31, 2005)

we don't even bother telling the admin about our broken equipment, usually me or my teacher fix it since we are the only ones who know how. If we go through the admin we would ahve to call an electrician and have him come in to repair it while we loose out on the equipment for a few years. It takes forever for things to get done through admin so we do it ourselves, and when we do something they don't like, we get yelled at by the union, and we don't care. For instance, for one of our shows, we covered the stage with plywood for a better dancing surface and teh union yelled at us saying we can't do that, yet they don't yell at us for painting the stage. We don't care anymore. So when our equpment gets broken, we fix it and no one hears about it. They only find out that its broken when we can't fix it ourselves. We do many repairs to lights, we always swap out the twistlock plugs for edisons and back, we don't listen to admin anymore.


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## ship (Mar 31, 2005)

Adaptors in swapping plugs is the key. Otherwise in ding the swapping of plugs type of thing, those cables just keep getting shorter and shorter with ever application of proper installation and not attempting to use pre-stripped wires. In my case, those trying to do me a favor don't do so, much less the not needed ferrules get stuck in the connectors in costing more than the extra effort in saving me time and not doing it properly will have implied. I now make most all cables a few inches to a few feet longer than necessary due to almost constant on-site change overs and doing me favors.

This also given those doing me favors in even using electrical tape to now outer jacket a 8/5 jumper in removing 18" of it's outer jacket at the male end so it can become the forgotton tails can "be saved". Must have been what... $0.40 cents in wasted electrical tape to "save" this cable that in the end will be replaced or just cut shorter anyway. No concept of effort per what's servicable.

Economical use of equipment means that if something more than once needs an adaptor or special piece of cable, it requires a adaptor or special piece of cable and not abusing what you have. This especially given 16ga wires on fixture whips, what in stage pin are you using to ferrule under the connector. Are you using the 12ga ferrules provided with the plug - a new one each time you had to adapt, or are you using in addition to the 12ga ferrule a 16ga one?

On initial wiring one can often use what's provided, but if trying to "save" the fixture whip length, your using crappy strands of wire is by far not an option beyond even using proper ferrules for the wire plus proper ferrules for the plug.

While not standard for the industry, such 16ga insulated ferrule in addition to 12ga ferrule sleeve over it work well as a system at the plug. Given ever time short of adaptor, you now need to cut the conductors and start over with wire, it's both in cordage and ferrules not economical to change plugs much less each time done so ensure it's well done. Much cheaper to do adaptors.

In being long, get my point?


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## falcon (Mar 31, 2005)

i do get your point, and we did start making adapters, but we usually end up swapping plugs cause we don't have enough time to go to Home Depot and buy parts to build an adapter. Right now, we only need one more adapter, so i will probably be building that when i get back to school


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## ship (Mar 31, 2005)

When well built and marked so it does not wander, that adaptor will be useful for the future. As opposed to building over the years a few hundred adaptors per year for me, I'm down to under 100 per year now and it's now often involving Euro to American as adaptor as it were. This given such adaptors are well built and marked with both a systm of what it's for by color code and specific markings as to who it belongs to so it has a hope of getting back to me should it wander. "GTC" who ever you are, sorry I don't know who you are. Your cable just became mine. This as opposed to good markings as to specifically who and the phone number.


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## avkid (May 5, 2005)

ccfan213 said:


> our assistant principal has done nothing, even though we have told him several times over the last 6 months. sometime this week the guy whose glove cought on fire (he is a professional hired by the drama dept) is meeting with the head of the arts dept for the entire district because the school clearly wont do anything.



It may be time to call a building inspector and/or OSHA!!


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## avkid (May 15, 2005)

what happened about that meeting?


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## Eboy87 (May 25, 2005)

My most hated gear; anything with the name Carvin on it. I had to use a Carvin PA system (mixer, amp, speakers) in church until I bought my own gear. Those speakers had such a bad sound, like a tin can. Now I use JBL SR4700 series and two SF12Ms as monitors, and a Mackie board. Now we sound like a band. I have a gig in about 10 minutes, I may be able to post pics of it. I'll try.


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## Radman (May 25, 2005)

Our sound system is going haywire, so thats on the list. An amp keeps working when it is off and the mixer does't do things it should and does do things it shouldn't. Also the now broken again genie, which was broken before but I "improved" not quite fixed. Now it seems to have broken again, and it apparently happend while AME was on his way down. Luckily it broke in a way that it won't come down any more, and not the other way around. Our 20' little giant ladder hasn't worked in the time I've been there, someone has found a way around that problem and we still must use it. I'd like to burn the asbestos cords on some of the old fresnels, and the cracked lenses on alot of our lights, as well as the fried plugs and lamps. Smash bad lampbases, torch unistrut nut springs, and nuke all the garbage. Oh yea and recycle the followspot op's collection of pop bottles up in the cats (he's got at least 10 half empty orange crush bottles up there.)


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## RiffRaff54 (Jun 3, 2005)

my most hated gear is the 6x9's we have. we have way to many of them, think about 20 or so. we dont use them much and when we do use them, they look horrible. the only good thing about them is that we use them as weights to keep the pipes balanced


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## ship (Jun 4, 2005)

If Altman 360Q 6x9, you should E-Bay or stagecraft (once a year per poster) a trade for other lens configurations that are of more use to you. Short of the 4.5Q6.5 lens train, it's the most valuable one out there and you should easily be able to at least trade some for 6x16 if not choosy, or some 6x12 lens trains. Heck, I have lots of the above and might thru one of them do a trade for a configuration I can more easily sell off.


This all given you have not tried a Osram HPR 575/115v lamp in the fixture. Darned good lamp.

20 6x9 fixtures to me seems like about one first electric and needing more for a full stage show. Might be best off saving them for a time when they are used to their fullest intent. Just because you don't have a use for a fixture does not mean the next person that comes along won't curse you for trading them off. This given a otherwise balanced inventory in other fixtures and a sufficiently sized stage.


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## RiffRaff54 (Jun 4, 2005)

i would love to get rid of them, but i dont think my boss would like that seeing as how he is the one who bought them. the two things we use them for is front lighting off of the electrics, and for gobos.

now that i think about it, i think we have a lot more that 20. a lot more.


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## otto (Jun 4, 2005)

Oh my GOD. The whole darn* theatre. My TD could complain* for hours (HOURS) about our lousy* architect. To give you an idea of what an prick* this man was, our ORCHESTRA PIT is too shallow. TOO. SHALLOW. The Cello and Bass players STUCK OUT last show. Agh.

In terms of equipment, though.... the first thing I'd kill would probably be our friggin* radio mics (I'm not actually a sound person, but I've run it enough to know our radio handhelds are CRAP.)

They're really moody. This, coupled with inept variety show performers who keep turning them off via the switch, makes for some crappy talent shows.

*Admin Note:* asterisk's indicated edited words.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Jun 4, 2005)

For a school the size of us we have gear thats pretty good but some of it I can't wait till we get a new one. The one that I would have to say I don't like the most would be the light board itself. Its a pretty nice one for the time and is still working, the problem is that alot of the functions seem to just be mysteriously not working. Most of the keys stick (when we were rehersing for the 5th grade play, I was running it and my friends wrote the cues. I hit the 7 Key and it put it in twice, which happened to be the right cue even though 17 turned into 177 becuase it always happens lol). Alot of the funtionality is just going down hill and varios times we've had to just wipe the entire HD and start over with something which SUCKS. Its getting pretty old though, but I doupt our school will let us buy a new one untill it totally dies.

~Nick


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## avkid (Jun 4, 2005)

What kind is it, why don't you just have it overhauled by a factory certified service establishment?


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Jun 4, 2005)

Its an Omega 2 by EDI. I think we're looking into having it fixed but its so old (at least 11 if not more years) our school may just have decided to let it break completely and then guy a new one. The TD does some work with it but its mostly students who do everything at my school (which is awesome) so I think its one of those we live with it. I just hope that it doesn't go when we have like a week left to a show and just wrote all the cues and everything.

~Nick


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Jun 5, 2005)

Sorry but what is a Lens Train?


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## ship (Jun 5, 2005)

RiffRaff54 said:


> i would love to get rid of them, but i dont think my boss would like that seeing as how he is the one who bought them. the two things we use them for is front lighting off of the electrics, and for gobos.
> 
> now that i think about it, i think we have a lot more that 20. a lot more.



Than if he would not be interested in trading (Lens train assembly only,) perhaps he might be convinced to "supplement" the inventory with a few lens trains of other sizes. This way, per his intent you will still have the equipment he purchased and also have some flexibility for other purposes. It's very common to have extra lens trains or more of them than fixtures.


"What's a Lens Train?" A lens train on a 360Q series ellipsoidal reflector spotlight would be the lenses and spacer and retaining ring as housed in the barrel as an assembly. Most often since the tube coming off the rear end of the fixture to support the lens train will change dependant upon the lens train and it's focus, this would in swapping out lens trains also have to be exchanged for one of the proper size. So you have the lens train as something that's easily removable and the tube that retains it in the fixture as mounted to the fixture by four screws as a lens train assembly.
Sometimes with removing the lens train, the screws will sheer or get stuck, at other times the holes won't line up. On the while it's a easy enough thing to do with a properly maintained light fixture.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Jun 5, 2005)

Ah ok, you wern't talking to me, mind explaining what one is anyway I'm confused.

~Nick


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## gabi (Jun 5, 2005)

My most hated equipment:it's a new brand of moving light that i saw, called "TRITON BLUE"...you'll don't know how much difficult could be a gig until you try to program with this fixtures...and could be worse if your desk is an LT HYDRASCAN...this could be happen if you come to Spain and don't have an strong production behind you...


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## jyenish (Jun 23, 2005)

In regards to the topic of sub standard equiptment. The senior team has it right. Proper maintenance is the best bet to 1) keeping instruments from "Crapping Out" 2) identifying chronic and reoccuring problems. 

If you don't already it might be worth your while to keep maintenance logs. This can be a tad bit tedious (recording all the intrument serial numbers and logging every repair), but in the end it is quite worth while. 

The logs serve to make your case to the "powers that be" in your given theater or school. From personal experience when I first arrived at my college lighting was, derilct in the least. It has taken four years of constant repair and basic maintenance has increased my working inventory to about 90% of my total instrument inventory. 

In addition to that, the maintenance logs have illustrated to the "powers that be" what needs attention in our theater. I have found that the best way to get those things you want, is to find out who it is that controls the money in your school or theater. Spend genuine time getting that person into your space and talking to them. Building relationships is key. (The department chair has been known to cast the chief administrators wife in a show or two) After a time when you do decide it is time to ask for money, those people who make your decisions may be more willing to help you out, over just coming to them when you need something. 

The relationship coupled with the documentation over time of things that have chronicly occured will aid you in making your case.

As to the topic of equiptment, I have done a decent job of relplacing a lot of the disfunctional equiptment, however those pieces have not been carelessly tossed aside. Haveing a graveyard of older instruments is a nice cheat way of having spare parts. I canniblize from old pieces of equiptment all the time. 

Learning to work with little makes you more marketable in the future. Most theaters are not fully outfitted with the latest Strand or ETC gear, you are going to run into leko's and ancient altman's knowing how to utilize them and being able to do spot repairs is going to get you a lot further than wishing you had a S4 instead.

Thanks for listening...


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## erosing (Jul 6, 2005)

ALL or our corded drills, they are VERY old and just crappy now.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jul 6, 2005)

All of our wireless mics are aweful. Some interfere with the local TV stations, others with the heating system, and even more from who knows what. Out of the 14 that we have, only about 3 work to their full potential, which isn't a lot to begin with. We have a new principal next year, so it will be interested to see how the funding goes, considering we've had to beg for the little amount that we've received.

However, I was with the new Director of Technology the other day in our Auditorium, and he said "I didn't realize that you guys had so little that worked in here." It was amazing that someone actually realized that it wasn't just the equipment that didn't work, but our booth doesn't even work. We're losing cables left and right from people taking them because all of the locks are broken. We lost our USB cable for our DMX adapter the other day, and the sound board, which is three years old already has one channel not working, the internal feeds to the mains don't work anymore and one of the subs doesn't work. Hopefully next year will bring money and a new booth.


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## mbenonis (Jul 6, 2005)

Foxinabox10 said:


> All of our wireless mics are aweful. Some interfere with the local TV stations, others with the heating system, and even more from who knows what. Out of the 14 that we have, only about 3 work to their full potential, which isn't a lot to begin with. We have a new principal next year, so it will be interested to see how the funding goes, considering we've had to beg for the little amount that we've received.



I may be able to help out here. What brand and model of wireless mics are you using? If the mics are sold in different frequency ranges, what range are your systems in? How far out the mics are from the stage, and what type of antennas are being used? Is there any sort of antenna distribution, or does each unit have antennas on it? With this information I may be able to get the mics working for you.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jul 6, 2005)

Wow. The simple idea of them working correctly amazes me. We have 8 TOA WM-270 receivers working with TOA WM-770 transmitters. These are VHF and each pair is sharing one VHF antenna. There is no antenna distribution and the receivers are sitting upstairs backstage with antennas pointing directly at the stage. If you need it, I have the frequency codes, although I don't know what frequencies they actually are.

The other six are Audio Technica 1400 series beltpacks. They are UHF and each have two antennas. Everything else is the same. Anything you can do is more than appreciated.


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## RiffRaff54 (Jul 6, 2005)

i hate everything in my schools little theatre. the intercom is a piece of crap, the sound system is ancient, and my favorite, no light board, everything is run of the CD80 Dimmer packs. not to mention that the leko's are missing shutters and bulbs are horrible aligned and you cant align them because they wont move.


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## mbenonis (Jul 7, 2005)

Foxinabox10 said:


> Wow. The simple idea of them working correctly amazes me. We have 8 TOA WM-270 receivers working with TOA WM-770 transmitters. These are VHF and each pair is sharing one VHF antenna. There is no antenna distribution and the receivers are sitting upstairs backstage with antennas pointing directly at the stage. If you need it, I have the frequency codes, although I don't know what frequencies they actually are.
> 
> The other six are Audio Technica 1400 series beltpacks. They are UHF and each have two antennas. Everything else is the same. Anything you can do is more than appreciated.



It would be helpful to know what frequencies both the TOA and A-T mics work on. It's unfortunate that none of your systems are frequency-agile, but there may still be things we can do to get them all working, such as moving them around, repositioning the antenna, and adjusting the squelch. I'll try to come up with a formula once I know the frequencies.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jul 7, 2005)

E9000
C9445
E4000
D1905
G0000
H4750
F2750
F8750
744.85 Mhz
742.70 Mhz
737.00 Mhz
745.20 Mhz
735.60 Mhz
733.00 Mhz

The top are the TOA codes and the bottom are the AT frequencies. I've looked some before, but I'll do some more looking for a frequency conversion for the TOA.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jul 7, 2005)

Found the conversions for the TOA. They are the following frequencies:

189.000 Mhz
169.445 Mhz
184.000 Mhz
171.905 Mhz
200.000 Mhz
214.750 Mhz
192.750 Mhz
198.750 Mhz


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## mbenonis (Jul 7, 2005)

OK, here are some preliminary results. First, the good news: none of the mics conflict with one another. This is important and a really good thing. However, you have two definite conflicts with local TV stations and one future one. The mic on 192.75 conflicts with channel 10, and the mic on 733.0 conflicts with channel 57 - so I wouldn't be surprised if these ones give you a fair amount of trouble. You will start having trouble with the mic on 189.0 soon when channel 9 comes online. Other than that, I see no other major issues other than the heating system which you mention. Could you elaborate on how that affects the mics please?

Now that all of the frequencies check out, let's look at some ways to improve reception. Due to the fact that none of the TOA mics have diversity reception (that is, two antennas), you may very well end up with dropouts at certain points on stage. However, we should be able to limit the number of dropouts by repositioning the receivers. The first thing I would do is move all of the receivers down to the stage level. This will help to shield the receivers from the TV channels and other interference. Next, reposition the antennas on the receivers so that the TOA ones are vertical, and the A-T ones are at a 45 degree angle, pointing away from each other. This will make them more sensitive to signals coming from the stage. By the way, have any of the antennas been bent, cut, or otherwise damaged? That could be a definite cause of reduced reception. ANother thing to remember is that if you have antennas of different length on the TOA systems, the longer antennas go with the lower frequencies if it is possible to do so.

If after taking these steps you still are having trouble with dropouts, have someone systematically pace the stage with a troublesome mic while you watch the RF readouts on the receivers (I know the A-T one has a readout, and I can't tell if the TOA has one). While the person with the mic keeps walking and talking, move the receivers around backstage until you find a place where the system does not drop out. You may end up with some arcane locations, but if it works, it's better than nothing.

If you still cannot get decent reception with the equipment, it may simply need to be replaced or serviced. You should seriously consider replacing the TOA mic systems if you can get the money to do so. I would replace them with either the Shure SLX series or the Sennheiser EW G2 100 series. Both of these systems are reliable and will work well for you. Be sure when you buy them that the frequency range you get has the most channels available.

The A-T systems are fairly new and should give you little to no trouble, with the exception of the one on 733.0. Give A-T a call and see if they would be willing to retune this to another frequency which is clear in your area.

By the way, I'm curious to know when these systems were bought.

Good luck, and keep me updated as to how things are working!


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## soundlight (Nov 7, 2005)

Back to the real topic of this thread: most hated gear.

That award would have to go to our absolutely crappy lightronics dimmer racks and old patching system with just 32 channels of 2.4kW dimming. And only 8 of them work right now, because lightronics dimmers are crap.


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## coraljag (Dec 5, 2005)

my most hated equipment? not so much equipment as our entire sound booth. it's glassed in and impossible to hear what is going on in the house and on stage. and you have to go through 3 different doors to get from the booth into the house.... dummies....


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## Inaki2 (Dec 6, 2005)

MiniMACs


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## len (Dec 6, 2005)

Mine:

Our StudioSpot 250s. Because of where the mounting holes are, they can only be hung perpendicular to the cyc line, as opposed to parallel to it, like 99% of all other moving lights. They are a pain to program because of that.


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## soundman1024 (Dec 6, 2005)

Len I'm not entirely sure I understand your situation perfectly, but if I do then what you need to do is invert the X&Y axis. Most moving light boards allow for this in some sort of fixture setup mode.


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## Inaki2 (Dec 6, 2005)

Yeah, how exactly are your StudioSpots giving you trouble in mounting?


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## foeglass (Dec 10, 2005)

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH


my wireless headsets.

I was Stage Manager for Little shop of horrors and we had 8 headsets. only 6 of them worked, and only 3 of them could talk back to me. It was close to the most stressful thing I had to work with, and anyone who has been a stage manager for a musical should all be cringing 'cause....yeah it was that bad.


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## Inaki2 (Dec 11, 2005)

What brand are they? Are they "real" ones like Telex? These ussually have all sorts of problem because people can't set them up correctly. If you have Motorola-style handies with headsets on them, they just plain suck.


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## foeglass (Dec 17, 2005)

no idea, I am home for christmas now, and I don't remember from the show. It was my first show at that school.


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## LorenHaus (Jan 24, 2006)

Well most everything is good, its just this one AMP...its about 15 years old...KUSTOM is its name, and it just SUCKS! It powers some cleap galaxy hot-spot monitors in the orchestra pit. Does its job i suppose, but has an annoying hum whenever the lights on the NSI dimmer board are dimmed between 20% and 98%. Trust me, its not an electrical issue. Not even a ground loop issue. If you happen to know what might cause it, let me know, but I've gotten sick of trying to figure it out. Besides, it aids in my speal for gettin' a new CROWN amp anyhow


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## AVGuyAndy (Jan 24, 2006)

Sounds like an electrical issue to me. Not that Kustom doesn't suck...


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## Mayhem (Jan 24, 2006)

LorenHaus said:


> Well most everything is good, its just this one AMP...its about 15 years old...KUSTOM is its name, and it just SUCKS! It powers some cleap galaxy hot-spot monitors in the orchestra pit. Does its job i suppose, but has an annoying hum whenever the lights on the NSI dimmer board are dimmed between 20% and 98%. Trust me, its not an electrical issue. Not even a ground loop issue. If you happen to know what might cause it, let me know, but I've gotten sick of trying to figure it out. Besides, it aids in my speal for gettin' a new CROWN amp anyhow



That description sounds most likely that the chokes in the dimmer rack are failing in some way. Most likely cause is dry solder joints but if the hum is only present when the dimmer is between 20% and 98% that tells me that the dimmer is causing the noise to be introduced into the system and not the amp causing the problems. I would have someone do a service call on the dimmer.

This means that it is likely that the new Crown amp will also hum


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## jacobbiljo (Feb 25, 2006)

Boy, where to start, it would either have to be our ancient projector system that has buttons which dont engage and a monitor send that doesnt work or the dimmer packs the school just got rid of. And by rid of, i mean released into the two senior techie's hands(me and my friend). We now have a half dmx 512 system and a half 0-10v system. The installer guy which put in the new 12 channels says he has never seen that brand of dimmer pack before. Has anyone ever heard of LSS laboratories. Im just glad the candle effect is over with. Now for the sound side of things, in the theatre there is a Mackie 1642 which has many shorts inside it, channels passing audio feeds to the channels beside them and half the lcd meter not working sometimes. As our theatre only holds 300 in a school of 1500, there is a seperate sytem in the gym which must be 50 years old. This sytem has channels which dont work, a horrible internal graphic eq, line inputs which dont work, crackily sound and very hot running amps. To add two this, the rowing team has now also take up reasidence in this room and now stores 5 ergs stacked ina pile in a sound room no bigger than a small family bathroom. I could also complain about the wasted money, like buying 8 sm58s or spending 400 a year to rent a wireless system each time a speaker come in instead of buying our own. Theres not much to complain about with the rental unit cause its a ULX series by Shure, this has got to be the best system i have ever used!


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## MircleWorker (Mar 1, 2006)

Four years ago the school I work for opened a $16 million theatre, "State of the art." The steel prices shot up so they had to do a little cutting of the budget. A great place to work, awesome but, not a lot of stuff inside. 

Lighting system: I got what I call the Anti-Christ of lighting, ColorTran. Up until last year I had to reset the Architectural system everyday, just to get that to work. I've had the tech guys out almost every few months fixing something. The only time I didn't have a problem with that when I unplugged the system. Light board: Colortran Innovator 600, Freezes and the display burns out. Lately the Sub masters are ramping up 5% and falling. Dimmers: Colortran I series. These little babies burn out. I've replace about a dozen of them and still counting. My system ghost really bad. the only way to get rid of the ghosting is to bring lights up to 50% and out on a 0 count cue. any fades will result in ghosting fixtures. Huge latency issues from board to the dimmers. Zero count cues are .75 to 1 second. House lights do this real nice "stair step effect." all Profiles have been checked.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just angry. Thats just the lighting system not to mention C.R.S. rigging, Strand SL cool-beams (the least of my problems) or soft, gorgeous, pine floors.


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## Techy101 (Mar 12, 2006)

Generally I am pretty content with any gear that just works. I've gotten to work on everything from the GrandMA Full-size with MAC 2k's, DigiCo D5 Live, Yamaha PM1D, Midas Heritage 3000, Midas XL3, all the way down to dirt old Peavey mixers, Mackie CFX-12, and whatnot. 

With a previous company, we needed lights, but couldn't afford them. I went to a place that dealt in Disney Surplus gear, and got old Strand Century LekoLites for $14 each. They all needed to be totally reconditioned, shudder assemblies were rusted in place, and took a hammer, steel brush, etc... to get back working again. But they worked, and because of that, they were ok in my book.

I should preface this with the statement, that I do like digital consoles. They take some work to get used to, but as with everything, signal flow is the key to understanding. I actually liked the DigoCo D5 Live more than any analog console I've ever used. 

I only have one hated piece of gear right now, it's a Roland VM-7200/VMC-7200. I don't know what was going through their minds when they were designing it, but they must have been drunk. It seems like they were trying to copy the Yamaha DM2000, but it didn't work out like that. For live applications, it's almost worthless. Firstly, to power on, (depending on the sequence of the processor and the console) takes anywhere from 3-6 minutes. Once it's on, if you're using it and want to get to the EQ for a channel, you (depending on the previous menu you were in, and there's about a 3/4 second pause between hitting the button, and it letting you do the next thing) "CH EDIT", "PG Down", PG Down", "PG Down", "PG Down", (and if you want to get to the low end) "down", "down", "down", "down". I timed it once, and with the "load time" of the menu's it takes just over 6 seconds to get into your low end parametric.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very powerful piece of gear. It has lots of built in functionality, just a worthless user interface. Because of how the menu's work, you have no good way to access anything quickly. You have basically the same thing if you want to access your "Flex Bus" which works as either an AUX or a Matrix, depending on how you have it set up. If you decide to try to adjust your gain on a channel while it's hot, you're in for a surprise. When you adjust gains, that channel cuts out for about half a second, then comes back on at the new gain.

I'm not sure who chose to purchase this, but I've been tempted to put it in the corner a few times, and bring in a little Mackie to replace it. Easy access to your channel strip is a must IMHO for live mixing.

This console would be a good choice for an environment (like a simple church) that stayed the same day after day after day. Have everything set once, locked out, and someone just there to fader sit. But for a theatre, it is just to complex, counter-intuitive, and the biggest fault, slow. Like I said before, it's not a total hunk of junk. It's quite powerful, and has some really neat features. But like a car, it doesn't matter how many toys you have inside, if the gas pedal doesn't work, it's pointless.


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## len (Mar 17, 2006)

Inaki2 said:


> Yeah, how exactly are your StudioSpots giving you trouble in mounting?



It's not a valid beef, I know, but they just piss me off. I am familiar with the swap pan/tilt, and all that. I just felt like complaining. And I was less than complete in my post. Sometimes, I have to take a truss and run a pipe perpendicular to that and hang the fixture off that. With most other lights, you have the flexibility of mounting either direction. Because of where the mounting holes are in HES products it's difficult if not impossible to do that. Same thing with the Studio Commands (an excellent product). With Martin, CP, etc., you have a bracket that allows the fixture to be put into either orientation.


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## soundop (Mar 18, 2006)

the mackie 24.2 sound mixer at my middle school that thing sucked so much, THEY HAD TO CALL ME BACK TO WORK IT! thats how horrible it is, then thats followed by any and all strand lightinging light boards.


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## saxman0317 (Apr 3, 2006)

hmmm...old lighting board at school. This was pre me era, but i have used it once in a bind..yes nez, i used it once... "Sparky" is the old lighting board...which would give you alittle jolt every now and then to say it loved you. That and the sound board we use for our portable system. The thing doesnt know in from out, literally. Once during and assemble it decided taht outputs would become inputs


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## avkid (Apr 4, 2006)

soundop said:


> the mackie 24.2 sound mixer at my middle school



I don't believe such a thing was ever made.


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## soundlight (Apr 4, 2006)

I think that you would be referring to an early 24.4.


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## DarSax (May 3, 2006)

Most hated? That's a toughie. I'd say my Electro-Controls (Bought by Strand, 1984) patch bay, installed in 1980. It has the wonderful pull-out-and-assign system, complete with broken sliders and nonexistant numbers (58 and 59. Whereyougo?). Makes a funny "humming" noise, with the occasional "pop." That is, until you get too close, at which point it makes a much louder "pop" accompanied by an "ow."

But then I'd have to say my school's electrical system, comprised of plugs numbered 1-120, but with most plugs repeated several times at (completely) random intervals, so as to...I don't really know, make specials just that much harder to create? Also installed 1980.

But then I'd have to complain about our dimmers. The ****ed room has been locked so I don't know the specs, but I'll give you a hint: 1980. And there's 32 of them (Just kidding. Only 31 work) for a 1800-seat auditorium. Coupled with the repeating (and occasionally broken) plugs of doom, it makes for a lighting designer's dream.

But if I complained about that, I'd have to complain about my Strand MX-24 board, with its high-tech 96-programmable scenes and 7 broken/messed up sliders (contact cleaner has simply ceased working. What's fun is when we hook up a monitor, and we see the level for slider 1 jumping from 2-71-FL-9-29-32 without us touching it). 

But then I'd have to say my lights, Electro-Controls (remember, defunct 1984) Parallelispheres, Fresnells, and Scoops. Add in some lights I don't even know (appear to be E-C, but they have a grand total of 0 markings on them) and a couple Altman-Somethingorother-Zooms (I'm too lazy to look up exactly which ones they are, god knows I wouldn't be able to find them anywhere else) bought at about the same time as everything else. All formerly stage pin, converted with cheap hardware-store edison plugs. Oh! My mistake, these take the cake. Wires are 100% filled with fiberglass. Don't you love that "itching" feeling all over your arms in the morning?

Eurk.


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## autophage (Jun 6, 2006)

Broken or crappy things, I can fix or cannibalize. The school usually looks the other way when the lighting fairy comes to visit with his magical soldering wand.

What bugs me are really fancy things that we can't properly control. An ETC Express board just isn't the best way to work with Technobeams.


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## TimeWarpedSR (Feb 12, 2007)

Oh boy do i know about hated equipment. I'm the head light tech, and we have to work with the stuff that the school.."provided" (we get no funding from them). We have had to resort to what our crew refers to as "ghetto rigging". That means making safety cables out of old wiring removed from the old light board...


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## Dustincoc (Feb 12, 2007)

Our Multicables. Salvaged from another theatre and have plenty of exposed bare wires. I've seen them spark and was just yesterday shocked by one that wasn't even showing any bare copper.


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