# Need new scrim/cyc



## mfhettig (Sep 6, 2010)

Hi,
I am in the market for a new scrim as our white one is in rough shape.
I am looking for any suggestions when looking for a scrim.
Type, color, anything else.
I am wanting to use it mainly for backdrops. e.g. shooting colors onto it from strip lights.
Also, the size is 46 by 19.5 feet. What should the approx. cost of this be?


Thanks,
Mark


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## DuckJordan (Sep 6, 2010)

My first question is why you'd want to spend the monstourous amounts of money on a scrim for this use, since a scrim can be used as a partially see through material, if lit from behind. I think in this case you'd rather want a cyc.

To answer your questions
1. Muslin
2. White
3. Larger than your pro opening, we bought a cyc that is 2 foot too short, so we see the bar unless we crop a ton off with our valances.


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## derekleffew (Sep 6, 2010)

mfhettig, it sounds like you want a cyc and not a scrim. The two terms are NOT interchangeable and many purists will even argue the use of the word "cyc," as opposed to "muslin backdrop."

As for price, it's always going to be more than you want it to be. This is definitely an item "custom bid price based on customer's specifications." Link.pdf to one vendor's stock price sheet. Note that a pipe pocket is usually preferable to a " 6" bottom hem with chain pocket and chain," and thus may be an additional cost. Specifying seamless goods, as opposed to seamed, allows you to light the drop from the back, but at a much greater materials cost.

See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/10426-cyclorama-dealers.html for other softgoods vendors.


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## bishopthomas (Sep 6, 2010)

There's only one way to find pricing: have someone quote you a price. Try rosebrand.com or sewwhatinc.com. I got a quote from chicagocanvas.com for a 30x16 cyc for a little less than $500.


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## mfhettig (Sep 7, 2010)

Hmm. So I need a cyc? 

I was under the impression that cycs were used to light from behind or in front and could be made see through and scrims were pretty much front only and smaller holes, so no transparency. Why is there such a huge cost difference? 

If all I am going to use it for is colors like http://www.dance.wisc.edu/theatre/media/stage.jpg then all I need is a cyc? Someone said muslin. Is that correct? 

The one we have now is white and made from a very soft, sheet like material. This is a scrim, right?


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## Footer (Sep 7, 2010)

mfhettig said:


> Hmm. So I need a cyc?
> 
> I was under the impression that cycs were used to light from behind or in front and could be made see through and scrims were pretty much front only and smaller holes, so no transparency. Why is there such a huge cost difference?
> 
> ...


 

You have the terms interchanged. Both items are in our wiki, just click on scrim or cyc to read more. 

The price difference comes in play when you want a seamless cyc. A 30'x50' piece of seamless fabric is very expensive to produce. However, 6' or 8' fabric is cheap to produce. If you don't mind seams in your cyc, you can get by with a cheaper build. Seams are fine if you are never going to backlight the cyc. Scrims are usually and order of magnitude more expensive then a cyc because of the fabric used. Scrim material is difficult to make and therefore expensive. Its a special fabric made just for the entertainment industry.


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## MarshallPope (Sep 7, 2010)

You have it backwards. Cycs are used for backgrounds. The term comes from Cyclorama, which originated as a (basically) half-circle behind/around the stage, originally blue, used to simulate the sky. This evolved into the cycs that we use today, which are generally white muslin. Scrims have the larger holes, and are used largely for transparency effects.

The cost difference simply comes from the materials and manufacturing processed used to produce them - Compare this to the Walmart fabric department. You have the $1 rack of knits, jersey, and (very rarely) muslin, and then you have the $15/yd upholstery fabrics and sequined stuff.

I would bet that what you have now is a cyc, or, as Derek pointed out, more correctly referred to as a muslin backdrop.

EDIT - Looks like I took too long to type.


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## mfhettig (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks everyone! It looks like I'm getting a white, seamless, 19.5/47 foot muslin cyc. Rosebrand.com quoted me $1585. Does that look right? And the specs I mentioned will be able to give me looks like http://www.dance.wisc.edu/theatre/media/stage.jpg with the red. Correct.


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## Footer (Sep 7, 2010)

mfhettig said:


> Thanks everyone! It looks like I'm getting a white, seamless, 19.5/47 foot muslin cyc. Rosebrand.com quoted me $1585. Does that look right? And the specs I mentioned will be able to give me looks like http://www.dance.wisc.edu/theatre/media/stage.jpg with the red. Correct.



I would also get a quote from a few other places. That price is about spot on, but it never hurts to take a look.


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## derekleffew (Sep 7, 2010)

mfhettig said:


> ... And the specs I mentioned will be able to give me looks like http://www.dance.wisc.edu/theatre/media/stage.jpg with the red. Correct.[?]


To achieve the desired result in the photo depends much more on the lighting than on the construction or fabric of the backdrop. Type "cyc light" into the search box, as the topic comes up almost weekly.

I still question the need for seamless material, given that seamed offers a significant savings. If sewn properly and only lit from the front, no one will be able to tell the difference. And I second Footer's advice--get a few more quotes from other vendors.


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## midgetgreen11 (Sep 9, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> I still question the need for seamless material, given that seamed offers a significant savings. If sewn properly and only lit from the front, no one will be able to tell the difference. And I second Footer's advice--get a few more quotes from other vendors.


 
I may have to disagree with you here Derek Leffew---I've worked with several "seamed" cyc's and you can weight and stretch them all you want---light them from all angles---you can always see that seam and it always makes ugly shadows---seams also make it very difficult to stretch. I would vouch for seamless any day. In the case of a high school where money is at a minimum--- and having just purchased a seamless this past year and seeing the immediate difference--- I think the return on investment is much greater.


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## MPowers (Sep 17, 2010)

Everyone has said pretty much everything that can or needs to be said.

You do want a Cyc/Muslin back drop not a Scrim. I would vote for seamless for lighting, you'll be happier in the long run. 

You still have a couple of choices to make and that is Flame Retardant treated cotton or an IFR Polyester. IFR is a bit more expensive but never needs retreating and if soiled, spot washing and such does not take out the FR treatment.

I think the quote is a touch high, Get a quote from Sheila at Syracuse Scenery (tell her I sent you) Syracuse Scenery & Stage Lighting Co., Inc. or from Jim Irvin at Stage Decorations Stage Dec: America's Premiere Manufacturer of Stage Curtains & Theatrical Drapery

Both produce excellent products and at very competitive prices.


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## derekleffew (Sep 17, 2010)

Michael, what does "Top Finish: Webbing, grommets, *CCF2s*" mean (from one of the above's Request-a-Quote.pdf) ?

EDIT: Nevermind.


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## NeroCaesar (Mar 6, 2013)

I am in the Market for a new Cyc, we were thinking of going vinyl with a twin white or a FP screen, would these be better than the normal fabric type. 

We use our cyc for mostly top down color washes with cyc lights, and sometimes front projections. We are going about 15'x30' and grommets all around.

Is there a benefit with the blue fabric cyc over the white fabric cyc? I know that's more of a personal choice, just wanted to hear some opinions.


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## wdugger (Mar 6, 2013)

Using a blue vinyl cyc or a white vinyl cyc is truly just a choice. Only difference really, is that the blue will tint your stage lighting a bit. Of course this depends on what colors your lighting designer is using. 
Twin White is much more commonly used.


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## NeroCaesar (Mar 8, 2013)

Sorry If I wasn't clear, I meant the difference in preference between a blue or white Fabric not Vinyl Cyc.

Mostly I am Curious about which is better for color/light spread for cyc lights; vinyl twin white or Front Projection or a fabric Cyc (blue or white) or something else I don't know about?

Thanks,
-Greg

and as a side question, 
-Most theatres I've worked for have the cyc lights yolked downstage on the same pipe as their cyc hangs on, is it really better to have it on a pipe DS of a hanging cyc?


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## sk8rsdad (Mar 8, 2013)

The location of the cyc lights relative to the fabric depends on the optics of the fixture so it is best to consider the cyc and cyc light, and how they need to be mounted relative to each other as a system. Narrow beam fixtures can work quite well from a near-vertical position cantilevered from the same batten as the cyclorama. Asymmetric flood fixtures likely want to be a metre or so away from the fabric necessitating a second batten.

We replaced our cyclorama recently, going from stained heavy muslin to a Leno filled scrim. The irregular surface of the filled scrim is better at catching top light, diffusing it and reflecting it forward than a flat fabric. Vinyl wasn't considered because we don't have a fly tower and furling our cyc on a traveler track works better with softer fabrics.
.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Mar 8, 2013)

We specify the rosco twin white or gerriets opera for sky drops. (I'm one of those that can't stand calling a flat striaght soft drop a "cyclorama".) It's permanently flame retardant and seems more durable and if it does need repair, pretty simple to put good tape on back and no seams on front. Also useable for rp, shodow effects, etc., if they want to re-hang it downstage.


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## Techman411 (Mar 11, 2013)

That sounds about right on for price. I got a 26' x 70' and it was a little over $1900. Rosebrand was the cheapest I found. Other quotes I received were $2800 and $3100.


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