# Cyclorama



## Synchronize (Sep 30, 2009)

So I'd like to do some cool lighting effects behind groups on our stage. My understanding is that one would use a cyc for this. Well budget is null so we need an alternate. I've seen some auditoriums that smooth concrete back wall thats painted white. This would work, except for the fact that our back wall is cynder block and therefore not smooth.

I was thinking a decent alternative would be framing out a huge wall on that back wall and drywalling it.

Do you think that will work or do you have any better suggestions?

Thanks


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## seanandkate (Sep 30, 2009)

How big is the wall Adam?


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## Raktor (Sep 30, 2009)

You have to think about all those times you want to -not- use it in the future, and how you will cover it with blacks.


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## Footer (Oct 1, 2009)

A cyc is 2-3k. A drywall wall installed to a concrete wall is at least twice that.


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## Synchronize (Oct 1, 2009)

The wall is pretty large, I can post some picutres tomorrow mabey. We do have a black curtain that goes along the back wall that will cover it when we dont want it. I dont know how a traditional cyc would work, if its flown, we arnt capable.

I can do drywall pretty cheap. <500


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## seanandkate (Oct 1, 2009)

You could dead-hang the cyc behind your traveller, so I don't think that would be a problem. I do, however, think it would be really hard to get a perfectly-flat-no-seams-showing surface along such a broad wall. Since cycs are lit from a pretty oblique angle, ANY divit or imperfection is going to show in drywall.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 1, 2009)

Are there any other theater companies or rental houses in your area?? Maybe you could contact them...they might have a used cyc they are looking to sell or might be interested in selling. If you can find one, you could save yourself a bunch of money!

Just because the wall is concrete block does not mean it won't take light. Did you try lighting it?? Depending on what you want to do you could probably come up with some decent color combinations that would hide the concrete somewhat. You'd want to drop some gobos in the instruments to give it a bunch of texture. I'm think some sort of breakup with a split get...try it out, you might be surprised!


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## wah0808 (Oct 1, 2009)

I work in two theatres that don't have CYCs, who have not only put up a plain white wall but have incorperated a crossover too... The wall works pretty good with the right finishing. That being said I still prefer a CYC myself...


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## Clifford (Oct 1, 2009)

My first suggestion would of course be to find yourself a real muslin or canvas cyc. All the high schools in our district have dry wall cycs. They don't take damage or marking well. Now, these are high schools, and as such are treated a little rough, but it's still something to consider. You can only do so much to fill and repair when a platform gets dropped into the bottom of the cyc.


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## Synchronize (Oct 1, 2009)

The main reason I want the cyc is not so much for color. I don't know if you've ever used a multiplexer but I saw a video of a multiplexer and a gobo rotator and the effect was phenomenal. Come hell or high water I am going to achieve that effect this year. Its my last year at the high school and I have been requested to set up a three year purchase plan for lighting equipment spending about $1000 per year. I want to get as much equipment as I can per year with that budget, getting the coolest stuff this year so that I can use it before I go  . Purchasing, even a used, cyc would wipe out my budget for the year and leave me with no new toys to play with. Thats why I'm trying to do it cheaply.


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## Raktor (Oct 1, 2009)

No point getting toys if you don't have the basics.


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## Synchronize (Oct 1, 2009)

Well I'd like to have the most basic, an aditorium, to begin with. But my school doesnt even have that. We just used gobos for the first time last year for heaven's sake. I'm not going to argue purchasing a cyc. We dont have the money, enough said. That why I asked for alternatives. We need more basic things before the cyc like more than 6 colors of gel in stock, more than two gobos, a board that works, lamps that are the correct wattage for the fixture, and fixing sticky dimmers. There is more that needs to come before purchasing a full blown cyc, so what we need to do is achieve the same effect, cheaply.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2009)

Synchronize said:


> Well I'd like to have the most basic, an aditorium, to begin with. But my school doesnt even have that. We just used gobos for the first time last year for heaven's sake. I'm not going to argue purchasing a cyc. We dont have the money, enough said. That why I asked for alternatives. We need more basic things before the cyc like more than 6 colors of gel in stock, more than two gobos, a board that works, lamps that are the correct wattage for the fixture, and fixing sticky dimmers. There is more that needs to come before purchasing a full blown cyc, so what we need to do is achieve the same effect, cheaply.



Okay, there you go.

Much as it may be an unwise investment at this point to invest in a cyclorama, it's even more foolish to advocate buying toys with your district's budget when they have infrastructure which needs repair and replacement.

Consumables (gel, gobos) are typically not a stock thing but a production budget thing. You should never count on either to last more than one production run (even though they both often do).

Lamps, at least from my perspective, are an annual facilities (or department, depending) issue. I advise the high school I design at to purchase enough lamps at the beginning of the year to relamp everything. Lamps of course are an expendable too.

The dimmer and board thing is where money should go; those are capital items.

The toys you want -- you're graduating this year, you said? After you're gone, would the toys have any semi-regular practical use, and would there be anybody left after you who could do anything with them? If not, you should rent.

I admire your determination to make this effect, but step back a moment and ask yourself how important it really is. Hint: if it doesn't make or break the show, it's not mission-critical.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would agree with the previous post!! Your enthusiasm and determination is a wonderful thing but you should definitely focus on the basics! Who is going to take your place once you are gone? If you really want to help your school out lay out a plan that will focus on the basics and also start working on finding and training your replacement for when you're gone. Look for somene who will still be around for at least a 2 years so they have time to get some experience and learn enough to pass the torch to the next kid. All of your hardwork and planning will be wasted in there is no one to take your place and sail the ship when you leave.

What is your space like right now?? Now big?? What kind of equipment do you have?? Renting the toys is a great idea, try to get this to come out of the production budget...use the $1,000 budget to start getting the right supplies and equipment for the job!


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## mstaylor (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree that things like gel is a show expense. Check out the Apollo site, they have an educational package deal that is very good. I believe it contains both gel and some stock gobos.


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## Synchronize (Oct 2, 2009)

Ok first of this isn't district budget. This isn't coming from the school. All of this goes through the Drama "Club". Since its a "club" we don't get any funding. I had to beg and plead for the school to replace bad fixtures. Anyway, we spent the past three years upgrading a traveling sound system. Now we are going to spend the next three on lighting. But anyway, things like fixtures, lamps, and the board will not go through the drama club because we are not the only ones to use them. The school (and community) uses them for plenty of other things. Fixtures are now being replaced. Lamps are going to go through the building maintenance budget. Light board we are just going to have to wait on. We allow for gel and gobos in every show budget, but I would like to have some more in stock just to try some more stuff out with general stage washes for music concerts.

As for a replacement, we have a few interested freshman, but I have a feeling that I will be back next year as a consultant anyway.

As for rental, its not worth it for the little stuff. I know rental inside and out. My family has rented equipment (not theater related albeit) for over 30 years. I've stood there smiling say "Renting, the smart way to get things done!' all of my life, but its really not when you plan on using something annually, especially when it would only cost $80 to purchase.

Anyway, back to what I was actually asking about. We cannot afford a cyc. Would drywall be the next best option or is there something better?


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## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2009)

Adam, hi. Please don't take this the wrong way:

Get over yourself.

This is the realm of a faculty or staff member. If the club purchases capital items with its moneys, that's the responsibility of the faculty advisor, not a student. If the district purchases capital items with a department's budget, that's the responsibility of the district and its representatives.

You are a student. While I'm sure your faculty and staff may appreciate your opinions, it's not your decision.


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## seanandkate (Oct 3, 2009)

In fairness to Adam, he said he was asked for a "three year _recommendation_." I'm guessing he knows that the final decision isn't his.
Now with a nod to some of the other posts, ask yourself what will really give your space the most bang for the buck need-wise. If drywall was better than a cyc, that would be the standard. We know it's not. Everyone loves toys. But, if you were able to get a _proper _cyc for your school (if they're asking your opinion, I assume the higher ups value it), you would be getting something that they will use for decades. Not a bad legacy to leave your school with . . .


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## Synchronize (Oct 3, 2009)

Heres the situation. When I started my freshman year the kid that ran sound showed me how to turn on the board, click lights and use the scroller to turn them on and off. Thats all anybody in the school knew how to do. We had one color of gel. Amber. In the two years that followed I did plenty of research, tracked down that manual to that board, read it cover to cover an uncountable number of times, and learned about effects, steps, patching, etc. I'm the only one in the school that really knows more than how to turn the lights on an off. Thats why the directors are trusting my purchase plan. When we made the decision of what to replace broken fixtures with it was my recommendation that was taken. I don't know why so many people are so condesending to students on here. Every time I make a thread half of the replies are "You don't have the capability" or "You dont know enough about it" or "Its not your call to make". Well you really don't know me or my school.

You don't know my back story and frankly, I don't want to bother you with it every time I post. What can we purchase other than effects? We don't have enough dimmers for more fixtures. I'm working with the school to have clean power run up to sit next to the raceways in preparation of the day that we have movers. I'm working with the technology department to have dmx run up to the raceways as well. It's not like I'm working on just effects. But thats what the purchase plan is targeting. My counterpart and I have built a flat and lumber storage system. I opened and cleaned the dimmer rack for the first time since the school was built (8 years, 3/4" of dust, and yes I used proper LOTO procedure and had faculty supervision). It's not like I don't pay any attention to basics.


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## David Ashton (Oct 4, 2009)

Drywall is fine, probably better from a practical view, you can repaint the graffiti and fill the holes, a cyc is virtally impossible to repair invisibly or remove graffiti,[if anyone knows better please let us know]


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## BDS0111 (Oct 4, 2009)

Adam,

If you can't get a real cyc drywall would be better than nothing, esoecially to get the effects you were talking about. I certainly understand what you are going through! Let me ask you this...How much money to you have in your budget for this "cyc" project?


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## Synchronize (Oct 4, 2009)

I'd like to spend nothing out of that three year budget. Normally for large projects like this we find some tech parents that are willing to donate all or some of the materials. Thats how we did that flat storage rack I mentioned. I don't think that cost will excede $350.

And the plus of drywall over cyc is the repairability. A lot of times the stage is left unlocked. Some music classes are tought there, and the golf teams stores there golf clubs there. For me thats just too many people to have anything of value on the stage.


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## David Ashton (Oct 4, 2009)

One thing, get the absolutely flattest, matt paint you can, any sheen reduces the look.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 4, 2009)

Yes, I'll second the flat paint! What size does this need to be again?

If parents have contributed before, could you put together a small fundraiser? How many kids are in your theatre program?? Include the music departments...I bet they would want the stage to look nice for their concerts too!


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## Synchronize (Oct 4, 2009)

The community is so flooded by fundraisers. The cheerleaders, footballers, vollyballers, golfers, band, and dance teams. Theatre program is about 30 people. Most are in band. The band is going to Disney world next year so they have like a fund raiser a month for that. One thing that I was considering was putting a "wishlist" insert of sorts in the shows programs listing items that we are looking into and the prices. I would jump up on stage near the end of intermission and talk about how I'm a four year technician, how that this program has allowed me to find my passion, about my plans to study lighting design in college, and how I would like to do it as a career. Talk about how important quality up-to-date equipment is to the proper education of new technicians and that we rely on the community to support our ventures. Blah blah blah. Then mention that if anybody would like to sponsor a particular item or just make a general donation to help up purchase a larger item, you can meet with one of the directors in the back after the show.


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## BDS0111 (Oct 5, 2009)

That sounds like a great idea Adam. What a great attitude to have! Glad to hear that you found your passion too!! Do you know where you are going to college yet?


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## Synchronize (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm currently applying to DePaul University in Chicago. But unless they throw me some sort of finacial aid I'm going to have to do two years of Jr. College first and then trasfer, which is ok. I wish that more schools offered a lighting design major and not just the general technical theatre (and occationally technical theatre and design).


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## KeepOnTruckin (Oct 5, 2009)

maybe I missed this, but could you possibly paint the cinder block wall flat white or off-white?

if you do drywall, as somebody said it will be expensive but see if you can get some of the materials donated (mention that you will put their name in the program/name something after them)

and on getting money from the school. Does anyone else besides the drama club and music department use the space with the lights on? Like does the school regularly have meetings and assemblies and such things and have the stage lights on? If so, point out to the principal that they are using up your lamps and lights and such and (say this diplomatically) they ought to contribute some money or buy some lamps. If the school itself has no money, then talk to the district supervisor or school board or whatever your next higher-up supervisor is and say that you are not adequately being prepared for college/careers because you don't have basic equipment or lamps.


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## Synchronize (Oct 5, 2009)

Painting the cinder blocks white would not worrk. They are a very corse brick so lighting from any direction except for head on would be impossible. The school pays for our lamps and now our replacement fixtures. They will argue though that a cyc is not necessary to use the space, as we have put on many nice productions without it.


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