# tracked floor... eek...



## danl (Nov 22, 2007)

i'm looking for info and help on tracking a stage floor... not a lot of tracks, just a couple, but it's not something i've done... for SOME reason, i'm just never happy with a regular ol' stage floor... lol...

anyone had experience with this??? where do i even begin???

dan'l


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## icewolf08 (Nov 22, 2007)

What exactly do you mean by "tracking a stage floor"? Are you putting in tracks for moving scenery or are you putting in channels so your electricians can run wiring? Or are you trying to track down a floor or figure out where your floor is going?


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## danl (Nov 22, 2007)

a grooved deck for moving scenery... i don't even know where to start...


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## avkid (Nov 22, 2007)

danl said:


> a grooved deck for moving scenery... i don't even know where to start...


Why do you want to do that?


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## icewolf08 (Nov 22, 2007)

Well, since we always lay cellotex and masonite on our decks whose thickness adds up to 1 inch, we use two pieces of 1" angle iron to make a track. The angle iron gets screwed to the floor and the cellotex and maso gets laid over. For a knife on the wagons, usually a piece of 1/4" steel or you could use UHMW plastic. This technique seems to work well for us. If I had pictures I would post them, but I don't. I could probably make a sketch if you need.


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## avkid (Nov 23, 2007)

icewolf08 said:


> Well, since we always lay masonite on our decks


Did you guys stockpile it?


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## icewolf08 (Nov 23, 2007)

well, we reuse what we have as much as possible, then buy what we have to.


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## icewolf08 (Nov 23, 2007)

Here is a picture:


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## Footer (Nov 23, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Alex, I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are saying. The tracking is inset into your stage floor? So you add an inch layer of masonite across the whole deck?... Wow.



Thats pretty common practice. You will walk into many theatres that have cut slots in the deck for tracking and it messes up the deck for the rest of the decks life. It gets even more fun with you want to add some automation in that track, you have to raise the stage 4-6 inches which means triscuits or 4x8's accross the entire deck plus all the tracking mechanisms. This is also the reason that nearly every broadway touring show carries their own deck so the tracks are perfect every time. Add in a revolve the things get expensive REALLY quick. Tracking things onstage can be one of the biggest pains in the world, even simple tracks just to get a wagon upstage/downstage can be a real pain to do.


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## icewolf08 (Nov 24, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Is this an extremely common practice? This is just to get position correct on scenic elements? Is there a trip hazard associated with it? What happens if a nut falls into the grove? Should a pre-show check include all tracking?
> How thick is the knife, of what material, etc?



The knife and track system is to keep moving scenery in the right place as it moves. Simple tracks are straight, but complicated moves can be done with curved tracks. This keeps movement consistent.

Now comes the part where I refer you back to my two previous posts. If you look at the drawing and read, your questions would have been answered.  Is there a trip hazard? No, the track is totally flush with the floor and usually just over 1/4 wide. The knife is usually 1/4 plate steel or another piece of angle iron. You can also use UHMW Plastic.

Part of preshow checks are to check the tracks and the movement of all scenic elements.


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## Footer (Nov 24, 2007)

icewolf08 said:


> The knife and track system is to keep moving scenery in the right place as it moves. Simple tracks are straight, but complicated moves can be done with curved tracks. This keeps movement consistent.
> Now comes the part where I refer you back to my two previous posts. If you look at the drawing and read, your questions would have been answered.  Is there a trip hazard? No, the track is totally flush with the floor and usually just over 1/4 wide. The knife is usually 1/4 plate steel or another piece of angle iron. You can also use UHMW Plastic.
> Part of preshow checks are to check the tracks and the movement of all scenic elements.



In general, ALL automation is ran durring pre show. Not only to check for problems with the tracking but also to check that all of your limits are correctly hitting/working. You will occasionally come across angle iron tracking above the deck, not built into it, it works if you can put it upstage if you have a unit that only tracks upstage/downstage. 

http://www.castercity.com/vgroovew.htm

These are the way I prefer to track scenery if I can not lay an entire deck and the tracking will not be in the way. It makes doing the tracking EXTREMLY easy. Also, the angle iron track tends to be a bit less of a tripping hazard then having the angle iron on edge.


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## derekleffew (Nov 24, 2007)

Footer4321 said:


> http://www.castercity.com/vgroovew.htm
> 
> These are the way I prefer to track scenery if I can not lay an entire deck and the tracking will not be in the way. It makes doing the tracking EXTREMLY easy. Also, the angle iron track tends to be a bit less of a tripping hazard then having the angle iron on edge.


YES! And not all casters have to be V-groove and tracks. I've often used these on only the center of a moving piece and standard Darnell (expensive, but worth it) fixed casters on the others: less tracks, less binding, and fewer trips. How is it that dancers can move beautifully onstage, and then trip over a painted line backstage?


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## danl (Nov 25, 2007)

these tips are wonderful help!!! the tracks i'd like to put down are limited to only two, one moving offstage-left to center, one moving off stage-right to center... the scenic pieces are tall & wide flats - framework only - no wrapping... (since they're pretty tall pieces, would i need to have them on wagons??? how would i compensate for the height and balance otherwise?)

the reason i'm hoping to use tracks is the fact that they're see-through, and i was hoping to figure a way to move them without the use of visible stage hands, automated in a way... i'm scared of motors (lol), so i'm also trying to figure out a system of cables to move them on and off... does anyone have information on particular systems i could look into purchasing... 

i figured that any cables running L to R would be have to be run under the deck, so the first rendering would be what i'm looking for... i like the grooved casters very much, as this seems much easier than raising the entire deck... but that would mean that any sort of cable system would have to be above-deck and would then be a trip hazard... argh... or could the cables somehow be run under the grooved angle iron??? hmm...

this is just something i've been waiting to accomplish at some point, and one of the shows i'm working on now almost begs for it... perhaps it's out of my league... sigh...

anymore ideas would be wonderful!!! (i can't believe i couldn't find anything on this topic here until now)...

thanks!


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## Footer (Nov 25, 2007)

danl said:


> these tips are wonderful help!!! the tracks i'd like to put down are limited to only two, one moving offstage-left to center, one moving off stage-right to center... the scenic pieces are tall & wide flats - framework only - no wrapping... (since they're pretty tall pieces, would i need to have them on wagons??? how would i compensate for the height and balance otherwise?)
> the reason i'm hoping to use tracks is the fact that they're see-through, and i was hoping to figure a way to move them without the use of visible stage hands, automated in a way... i'm scared of motors (lol), so i'm also trying to figure out a system of cables to move them on and off... does anyone have information on particular systems i could look into purchasing...
> i figured that any cables running L to R would be have to be run under the deck, so the first rendering would be what i'm looking for... i like the grooved casters very much, as this seems much easier than raising the entire deck... but that would mean that any sort of cable system would have to be above-deck and would then be a trip hazard... argh... or could the cables somehow be run under the grooved angle iron??? hmm...
> this is just something i've been waiting to accomplish at some point, and one of the shows i'm working on now almost begs for it... perhaps it's out of my league... sigh...
> ...



If you are just wanting to do tracked flats, it will be much easier to track them from above then in the deck. If you have some old curtain tracking laying around or a track that you are not using for the show it is very easy to get set up. You will need to buy carriers that fit your track that terminated to a 3/8" threaded bolt. You then have to drop steel down to the flat (if you cable it you will never get it to stop swaying). You run it just like you would a traditional traveler and rig it the same way. If this looks/sounds like something you might want to do let us know, I just did one of these rigs this summer.


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## icewolf08 (Nov 26, 2007)

Yup, like Footer said. We just did this for a show, to big traveling flats. Hung on curtain track, operated like a normal traveler. It says out of everyones way, and it is easy to operate.


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## drawstuf99 (Nov 27, 2007)

Do you guys have a brand or specific carrier in particular that you think works well for that sort of rigging?


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## Van (Nov 27, 2007)

drawstuf99 said:


> Do you guys have a brand or specific carrier in particular that you think works well for that sort of rigging?


 
Depending on the weight, and vector < ie straight on/off or curved all over the space> of travel you cn use Rigi-flex, Rigi-trac, standard "barn-door" track, or standard traveller track like you would use for a main rag etc. 

http://www.sapsis-rigging.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SRI&Category_Code=15

this link is behind a "secure-server" screen so it might not take you straight there, but Sapsis has all sorts of track, and can probably put you on the right course to finding qualified personnel in your area to help/advise you on installation and use. 
I think I'm encroaching on TOS grounds here, I'm relatively certain I'm getting close to whatriggers toes, so I'll leave it at that


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## drawstuf99 (Nov 27, 2007)

Yes, exactly The only reason I ask is we're about to do a rather large school production in which we're trying to find companies to get gear from and to find references to help us out. There is no way any student is going to be rigging _anything_. Thanks for the reference.


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## Van (Nov 27, 2007)

One thing I think I can say is that when using any kind of track to move scenery on and off stage, a rigid mounting system is a necessity. I found this out the hard way early on. I thought it would be an easy, great idea to slide some "Broadway" style flats on and off stage by suspending them from Aluminum "rigi-track". I was well within the weight specs for support, but what I forgot about was the flex inherent in the aluminum track. I used chain to rig the track to a batten, bad move. As the weight moves across the track, the down force of the weight is transferred to the first chain past the weight which flexes "up" towards the batten. this results in in sags, and scrapes on the ground and general unhappiness.


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## Footer (Nov 28, 2007)

Van said:


> One thing I think I can say is that when using any kind of track to move scenery on and off stage, a rigid mounting system is a necessity. I found this out the hard way early on. I thought it would be an easy, great idea to slide some "Broadway" style flats on and off stage by suspending them from Aluminum "rigi-track". I was well within the weight specs for support, but what I forgot about was the flex inherent in the aluminum track. I used chain to rig the track to a batten, bad move. As the weight moves across the track, the down force of the weight is transferred to the first chain past the weight which flexes "up" towards the batten. this results in in sags, and scrapes on the ground and general unhappiness.



Also, you will need to secure the batten with tag lines tied of to ideally a pin rail on each side of stage to keep the batten from swinging SL/SR. The flats will have to inertia, so when they stop they will cause a bit of swinging to occur.


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## RiffRaff54 (Apr 21, 2008)

If this was answered in this post I'm sorry. 

If you're using a channel with a piece of metal inserted into to with a cable attached, how do you build the platforms/raised deck to accommodate the cable if it's run underneath? I guess what I'm interested in seeing is the entire side view of a system like this.

Thanks


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