# Transitioning back into Lighting?



## psfrench76 (Jun 20, 2015)

Hi all,

I'm 24, graduated in 2012 with a degree in Theatre and a concentration in design and technology. I spent most of high school and college doing lighting. I have a portfolio about like you would expect -- maybe a dozen community/student/storefront shows designed, several years worth of crew work, an electrics apprenticeship just out of college, a couple summer stocks, a couple ME credits from my school, and that's about it. I quit theatre cold turkey in the summer of 2013, and I've been working as a computer programmer ever since.

So here's the deal. What I have always enjoyed about theatre is Lighting Design. I'm not opposed to grunt work, but it's not what I want to do as a career -- I'd rather keep on being a keyboard monkey than swing a wrench and run cable all day. But I miss designing a lot, and my current job isn't anywhere near as enjoyable or fulfilling as lighting design was. I'm really considering a switch back over to the theatre world. I know that career-building as an LD is ridiculously difficult -- it's part of the reason I quit -- but now I'm here to ask:

Assuming I went back to get an MFA in Lighting Design (it would probably take a bit more work on the front end to make my portfolio URTA-ready, but that's okay), is there a "typical" career trajectory just coming out of grad school? I know everything depends, ultimately, on who you know, and your attitude, and the quality of work that you do, etc... But the real question is, will an MFA program generally move you forward on the path to making a living as an LD? And how far forward? I'm not looking for any exact answers, just experiences and impressions are great.


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## MrsFooter (Jun 20, 2015)

If you can think of anything else you could also do other than theatre, do that. 

Will an MFA get you a career as a professional LD? Maybe. That depends on where you go to school, who you know, how talented you are, how hard you're willing to work, and a giant dose of luck. But even with an MFA, you will spend time swinging a wrench, running cable, humping cases, and unloading trucks before you get there. A lot of it. An MFA may help you along the way from step 1 to step 5, but it's not going to let you skip steps 2-4. 

Before you leave what I'm assuming is a decent living at a job where 16 hour days aren't the norm, have you thought about volunteering as a designer for a community theatre? That way, you could do the parts you enjoy without the pressure of making a living doing it. There's nothing wrong with making the activities that you enjoy a hobby instead of a career career.


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## JChenault (Jun 20, 2015)

MrsFooter said:


> If you can think of anything else you could also do other than theatre, do that.
> 
> Before you leave what I'm assuming is a decent living at a job where 16 hour days aren't the norm, have you thought about volunteering as a designer for a community theatre? That way, you could do the parts you enjoy without the pressure of making a living doing it. There's nothing wrong with making the activities that you enjoy a hobby instead of a career career.



What she said.

There are lots of small theaters out there looking for lighting designers but cannot afford a living wage. Like you I was a software engineer and was able to do plenty of shows in the community and fringe space to keep my lighting addiction fulfilled ( 8 shows a year on average ). The pay for a LD is no where near what you will make as a software engineer. 


Now if all of these pearls of wisdom don't convince you and you have to give being a professional LD a go, a good graduate school is probably the best course. You need to find a place that has working professionals as your,professor. You establish contacts and network through those professors to get a job as an assistant. You do a number of free shows with directors and producers who,are starting out to get known. You network, network, network. Ultimately you start getting gigs as the LD. Maybe.


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## chawalang (Jun 21, 2015)

I will just be candid, don't take any of this personally, I am just being real with you.

Its good you got out into the world and realized what is important to you and what you are aiming for personally and professionally.

With that being said your choice of words are not beneficial to how you see your development as an LD. If you really want to do this it will take years of working your way up. You will have to be a wrench turner for a while. Any young person I have ever met with the kind of attitude you have described doesn't last long professionally and usually alienates every one around them. Again I am just being candid, you may not enjoy grunt work but your just out of college, you are the person who will be doing grunt work. you don't have a decade of professional experience under your belt where you can be the head elec or LD. As well, once you get going, no one will care about what you did in college, college is not the real world. it does give you a good environment to make mistakes and not get fired, but in the real world you will get fired. Something else to consider is that being a wrench turner and cable schlepper teaches you one of the most important aspects of this industry, humility humility humility. That is far more important than knowing how to program a Grand MA.

As far as grad school, with your lack of experience my honest opinion is that you need to get out into the world and get your hands dirty. Any grad school that will make you competitive in the industry would not bother with you. Not to say you couldn't get into a grad program but I doubt you will get into a good one. The perspective that if i go to grad school so i can get a job because now i don't have the skills to get a gig, is a terrible reason to go to grad school. Chances are if you don't have the skill set yet to make it in the real world or the social tact to make it in the real world, grad school won't help you much.

So how can you rectify your situation, DYI ethics man! Look at doing work in your area with local production shops/ rental companies or A/V companies. it will not be the most glam work at first but its a start. Hound your I.A.T.S.E local to get on some calls and work in different environments. Work in theatre, concerts, convention shows, A/V anything and everything to gain a broader skill set and personal perspective of how you fit into this industry. Look at going to USITT next spring to look at cruise ship gigs or potential tour gigs. Theme parks, six flags, Disney, Universal. Like I said the start won't be glam and before you ever touch the console you need to have strong knowledge of three phase power, moving light maintenance, lighting networks, basic I.T, console programming, all around trouble shooting, application of different kinds of fixtures, how to light theatre, how to light rock and roll, how to light for broadcast, if something is going to be Imaged, etc.

You need to know how to use critical path method for your resources, sure you may be able to LD a play with 5 weeks of prep time but can you walk into a ball room and LD a convention show with out any prep or knowledge about what the gear pull is and get it up and show ready in 8 hours? You can write some sweet cues but can you walk up to the desk and busk out a rock and roll show? If the concert manager just says ehhh make it look cool and thats all you have to work off of can you make it happen.

You could do community theatre but I have a point to raise, I realize I may stir up the hornets nest by saying this. In my opinion community theatre for the most part will not help you develop professionally. You may learn some basic stuff but the reality is that community theater tends to teach a lot of bad habits when it comes to safety and production quality. Realistically they can't afford to hire people with major chops and knowledge of industry standard because they are strapped for cash, i don't blame these organizations for the situation they are in, its just the reality of a non profit business model. So if you want to do something for fun go for it! In my opinion once you graduate from high school you need to move onto a higher level of professionalism if this is something you want to go into. My analogy, if you go to school for a business degree and work at Mcdonalds for some cash in high school, do you go back and work for McDonalds once you graduate from college, you look to work for Frost Bank or maybe Valero Energy because your trying to move up in your industry.

These are all things to help get thoughts flowing and to help you ask important questions, there is no one path to get to a certain place but a lot of people in a particular place tend to make the same wrong and right decisions.

From what you have described to move forward you may need to make some sacrifices but nothing worth doing is ever a cake walk.


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## Footer (Jun 21, 2015)

I know no one that makes a full time living as a designer for Theater. Even the Broadway guys can't fully pull this off. You have to either do corporate work, push cases, teach at a university, tour others designs as a lighting director, or be a production electrician. There is not enough money and not enough gigs to make a living. It is a hard grind and if you are not up for it don't do it. I have had people that are great LDs on my call list that got pulled off it because the wouldn't get into the truck at the end of the night or throw a mop. You have to be willing to do it all. If you aren't willing to do that don't start. White gloves don't make friends or keep you employed until you earn them... And that takes decades.


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## MrsFooter (Jun 21, 2015)

chawalang said:


> You could do community theatre but I have a point to raise, I realize I may stir up the hornets nest by saying this. In my opinion community theatre for the most part will not help you develop professionally.




Your assessment of community theatre aside, I was not suggesting it as a means of career development. On the contrary, I think he should keep his day job as a computer programmer and instead find creative fulfillment by designing for a community theatre as a hobby. It's the only conceivable way that he can go right from no experience to a job as the big boss without paying his dues in between. (And even that's a stretch, as most community theater's don't have have enough skilled volunteers to allow the designer white glove it.)

All *that* aside, I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on a necessary change in expectations. The OP is essentially trying to become a starting quarterback in the NFL without going through the minors or spending time as a second string. A degree will not replace experience, and any degree that claims to isn't worth the paper on which it's printed.


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## Les (Jun 21, 2015)

I share @MrsFooter's sentiments exactly, as this is how I am currently choosing to live my life. I spent high school and the ten years following working in the industry, and am currently a pyrotechnician for a fireworks/spfx display company. At this time I am pursuing a degree in Occupational Safety & Environmental Technology. A little late in starting but hey - I can make a great middle class living doing that, and I can choose when I want to do shows. Unfortunately this is the reality of the industry 99% of the time unless you get in to system sales (not a bad path either if you want to stay close to the industry).

Some people will work two jobs or practically kill themselves to "make it" in the industry. And that's okay. But that's not me, and I get the feeling that it's not you, either. I have adopted the "work to live" mentality as opposed to "live to work" over the years. Again, that's just me.

A slight tag along about community theatre. It isn't that they can't afford to hire top-tier designers, it's just that it isn't designed for that. It's designed so that anyone can get involved. That's why they call it _Community  _theatre. As in - people of the community work in it. It can be a good stepping stone for people just starting out, but it exists largely as a way for regular people to express themselves artistically. Sure, many community theatres have lost their way in this, but that is still the spirit in which it was designed and should be perceived.

Personally, I am okay with just working a community show every now and then. What matters to me is how much I got out of the experience.


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## MikeJ (Jul 18, 2015)

The lesson is this thread: Our dreams did not pan out, so your's won't either. Don't bother trying.


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## Les (Jul 18, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> The lesson is this thread: Our dreams did not pan out, so your's won't either. Don't bother trying.



I think that's skewing the lesson a bit. Most of the respondents are still pretty firmly planted in the industry (myself included). My angle is that it's great to try, and to try hard while working in the trenches. But eventually you may need a contingency plan, because the reality is that it's the arts - which are notorious for being hard to make a decent living in. From a purely economic standpoint, there are much better and easier ways to make a living.

Since everyone's definition of a "decent living" is different, I can only provide my own experiences and opinions on the matter. One thing I think we can all agree on is that it's very difficult and very hands-on. If that's not what OP is looking for, they should pick a different field.

Me personally? My values have changed. But again, that's only my situation and opinion.


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## MrsFooter (Jul 18, 2015)

MikeJ said:


> The lesson is this thread: Our dreams did not pan out, so your's won't either. Don't bother trying.



You're right, Mike, I'm just embittered because my childhood dream of growing up to be a princess with my very own unicorn just didn't pan out, so now I'm making it my life's mission to destroy everyone else's dreams so that they can be as miserable as me. Oh, whoa is me, if only my dream of being swept off my feet by a handsome prince on a white horse would come to fruition, maybe I wouldn't be such an angry husk of a human being.

Or, another thought, maybe I'm a professional whose been working in this industry for more than five minutes, and sees that the OP is setting up unrealistic expectations for what a masters degree would do for him and what kind of work he would have to do to fulfill his own dreams. Maybe I know that this industry can be a brutal one because I've lived it, and I don't want to see someone leave behind a good job and start down that difficult path unless they're fanatically driven. And maybe I don't want to see a smart kid saddle himself with crushing debt, only to finish his MFA and not be able to fulfill his dreams because he can't get hired for the gigs that he wants and finds himself working the labor-intensive, soul crushing gigs that caused him to leave the industry in the first place.

Look, if you're referring to the phrase, "If you can think of anything else you could also do, do that," it probably sounds pretty calloused. It's not meant to be mean, but brutally honest. It's a phrase many of us use as a way of saying that if you aren't fanatically driven, if you're not foaming at the mouth, if the thought of not being in theatre doesn't make you consider throwing yourself off a bridge, then don't unnecessarily burden yourself with the stresses, hard work, exhaustion, and often shockingly low income that comes with a career in this industry. If you're equally interested in a career in an industry that only expects a 50 hour work week, pays a comfortable wage, and allows you to see your family on weekends, for the love of god, go do that. This is an amazing industry, and I wouldn't trade my career for the world, but if I thought I could sit behind a desk and write software (or really anything involving a desk) without wanting to eat glass, I probably would.

Or maybe I'm just a giant b*tch who enjoys crushing dreams. That's for you to decide.


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## SteveB (Jul 18, 2015)

psfrench76 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Assuming I went back to get an MFA in Lighting Design (it would probably take a bit more work on the front end to make my portfolio URTA-ready, but that's okay), is there a "typical" career trajectory just coming out of grad school? .



The ONLY reason I see to get an MFA is because you will need it if you ever want to teach at a university level. That's it.

If you want to work as an LD, you need contacts. You need to know and to have impressed the people who will want to hire you for your LD skills as well as your communication ability and skills at working with other artists. Oh, and they need to know you will work your ass off and are dedicated to the job. 

If you don't currently know squat about design and need to know that, then yes, more school is required as it's faster then trying to learn via the school of hard knocks, unless you are the Albert Einstein and Pablo Picasso of lighting design, all rolled into one. School will also make you poor, possibly forever. 

The ONLY reason to go down the path of working in the entertainment business is because you love it. If you don't truly love doing lighting design, then find something else you like and can be happy with

I'd wager that everybody here on CB working professionally is continually justifying what we do, accepting the crappy hours, exhausting work and low pay, with the knowledge that we love what we do. Without that, there's no point.


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## SHCP (Jul 18, 2015)

The current job I have now, as a TD of a high school theater, is actually my third career. I started out in the trades, quitting art school to work full time to become a journeyman Auto Body Repairman. Then when the opportunity arose (because I was doing freelance design while working), I transitioned to full time Graphic Design, which led to an Art Director position. It was only when my daughter was in High School that I got involved in theater and discovered how much I really love the work, especially at the high school level. I wish that I started this career path in college. Do whatever you can, take any job/class/opportunity you can get that will allow you to learn something that will keep you working towards what you really love to do.


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## AshleyB (Aug 21, 2015)

MrsFooter said:


> Or maybe I'm just a giant b*tch who enjoys crushing dreams. That's for you to decide.



Based on this thread, I adore you. 

and seriously, my first high school theatre teacher used those exact words...not about being a b****, but about doing something else if you can. I have friends who never see their spouses because they are touring all the time. They love it, it's right for them. Me, I like my spouse and my kid, so my dream, right NOW, means I do community theatre, teach theatre in the high school, and sometimes produce my own work. None of that means I don't get my hands dirty, schlepp cables, or lumber, or trash...I probably do more of it! But I also get to be in shows I enjoy, design a little, paint a little, build a little. 

I get to create art on a regular basis, which makes me happy, and I get to eat dinner at home more nights than not. That makes me happy. And when I go see big shows with amazing designs, I appreciate it even more because I know the level of talent and skill and years of experience that went into it for that designer, and I'm happy that there are folks who ARE that committed to it. 

But yeah, wanting to be an LD but not schlepp cable seems... let's be polite and say "uninformed."


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## TheLightmaster (Aug 25, 2015)

MrsFooter said:


> (And even that's a stretch, as most community theater's don't have have enough skilled volunteers to allow the designer white glove it.)


THIS is very important to keep in mind. Even if the producer says that there will be electricians, chances are they will be swung over to some other department. Don't go assuming you will be doing only what you have been asked to do. If long hours with no pay doing lighting design AND hanging/cabling/programming/op-ing sounds unpleasant to you, don't do community theatre.

And even if you do, design your plot bearing in mind that you might have to install the whole thing yourself.


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