# Hanging microphones from a batten, aiming and rigging?



## Anonymous067 (Mar 16, 2011)

Before I even ask my question, can somebody inform me if this is touchable subject or not? My question involves how to hang a microphone from a lineset or attach the clip somehow to the batten (suspended)...?

Please no subject answers until a mod approves or rejects this...


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## MNicolai (Mar 16, 2011)

This has been talked about before -- if you were going to ask how to fly line arrays from a counterweight set, then there'd be reason for concern, but hanging a microphone isn't any more dangerous than hanging a lighting fixture except that lighting fixtures usually have safety cables, whereas microphones typically just get their cables tied to the batten with tie line.

As a general rule of the thumb, microphones do not weigh enough that when cables areused to suspend the weight of a microphone, the mated XLR connection or the cable will fail. However, if a cable gets snagged or pulled on by something, then there could be issues (most often, this is the case when the lighting guys are driving around in lifts during a light focus and they don't see the microphones until they hit them with lift and get tangled with the cable.

Presumably, at one of the batten, you have a 30' XLR cable drop to get from the pipe down to the floor, and then the cable goes somewhere to a stage box, snake, or mixer. I find the best solution is where the cable meets the batten to use gaff tape to secure the cable to the batten. Tie line doesn't work very well because the weight of the cable drop can cause the cable to slide through the tie line loop. At head height near the ground, this cable should be flagged with some bright spike tape so people walking on and off of the stage can easily see the cable and don't get tangled with it.

Getting from the off-stage cable drop to the on-stage cable/mic drop can be done by just securing the cable to the batten with tie line. Then at the on-stage drop, use gaff tape again to prevent the cable from sliding through a tie line loop.

Whether you have a microphone designed for this purpose (e.g. a light-weight hanging choral mic with a lot of small-diameter cable built-in) or you're hanging something heavier (e.g. an SM58, much heavier than a choral mic with no built-in cable -- albeit a terrible mic to use for hanging purposes) or not, you should be able to suspend a microphone via just the cable. A choral mic has enough cable that usually the first XLR connection is made on the batten, but an SM58 should have no problem being suspended from a well-mated XLR connection (meaning the only way to disconnect the cable from the microphone is by pressing the button on the connector), and an XLR cable should not see any damage from supporting the weight of a microphone. I like to leave several loops of mic cable on the batten above the mic drop so I have some room to play around with the trim height of the microphone.

If you've got enough sense to know how to hang a lighting fixture, hanging a microphone should be no problem for you. Where I see issues is primarily in the lighting guy hitting the microphones with a lift during the focus and when someone flies the set with the microphone on it to the grid without realizing there's an attached cable. For that reason, when I get my microphone at its trim height, I put a [URL='http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_n_12?rh=n%3A16310091%2Cn%3A%2116310161%2Cn%3A383599011%2Cn%3A16410171%2Cn%3A16410331&bbn=16410171&ie=UTF8&qid=1300299287&rnid=16410171"]linchpin[/URL] through the rope lock to lock off the set. I do the same thing with borders and scenery after they've been put at their trim heights. A linchpin is well-known in our facility to mean "Don't move this out-of-trim unless you absolutely have to, and if you do, take a good look at what you're moving before you move it", whereas when there's a greater concern of life-safety or danger, I'll toss a full padlock on that set to ensure I, the only person who understands what is dangerous about a given set, am the person who operates that set. A hanging microphone doesn't warrant that measure, but if just a linchpin is used on the rope lock, include a tag on on the pin or rope lock handle stating why the set is locked out.


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## MisterTim (Mar 16, 2011)

MNicolai said:


> but an SM58 have no problem being suspended from a well-mated XLR connection (meaning the only way to disconnect the cable from the microphone is by pressing the button on the connector), and an XLR cable should not see any damage from supporting the weight of a microphone.



I would highly recommend NOT doing this. XLR connectors are not reliable enough in my experience to ever hang a microphone from them. It is incredibly easy to think the connector is locked without it actually being locked, especially with older or slightly deformed cables or connectors. A microphone is plenty heavy enough to seriously hurt someone, and I would never ever hang it just by the cable.


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## MNicolai (Mar 16, 2011)

MisterTim said:


> I would highly recommend NOT doing this. XLR connectors are not reliable enough in my experience to ever hang a microphone from them. It is incredibly easy to think the connector is locked without it actually being locked, especially with older or slightly deformed cables or connectors. A microphone is plenty heavy enough to seriously hurt someone, and I would never ever hang it just by the cable.


 
Thus the "well-mated" statement. If a connector isn't capable of maintaining the connection when less than 3N of force is applied on the connection, the connector should be replaced. I wouldn't trust an audio cable of like that anywhere in my rig, much less above someone's head. Tugging on the cable and the microphone before flying it out is a simple enough test to ensure the connection is locked.

In general, this is a moot point though because there's never a good reason to hang an SM58. Condensers, yes, but an SM58 is a useless overhead mic.


> [.3kg * 9.81m/s^s] = 2.94N


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## Anonymous067 (Mar 16, 2011)

What I'm trying to do is fly some SM81s/94s/BG4.1s over the pit orchestra. The cabling has to go up to the grid anyhow (no stage pockets) so that isn't an issue. I am trying to cheat out of using stands, but the part I'm struggling with is aiming the microphones. I'm confident that I could rig the cabling to the batten without it slipping (using a combination of tie wraps, gaff and tie line), but I'm not sure how I would aim the larger mics (or attach the clip itself for the mic to the batten somehow).

Any thoughts specifically on aiming the mic?


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## Footer (Mar 16, 2011)

Put the clip on the mic, attach/tie tie line to the base of the clip. Tie the tie line off to the batten/grid. Use the cable to pan/tilt the mic to where you want it to point. Using a short mic stand, such as the one off a table stand helps attach the tie line to the clip.


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## DuckJordan (Mar 16, 2011)

MisterTim said:


> I would highly recommend NOT doing this. XLR connectors are not reliable enough in my experience to ever hang a microphone from them. It is incredibly easy to think the connector is locked without it actually being locked, especially with older or slightly deformed cables or connectors. A microphone is plenty heavy enough to seriously hurt someone, and I would never ever hang it just by the cable.


 

Really? what microphones have you been working with? XLR connectors that are attached to quality cable and the microphones are generally strong enough to hold 5 lbs of static force (STATIC not in motion). Hanging a microphone from a cable is done all the time heavier ones than the SM58 even. Remember those old school large condenser microphones they used for announcing boxing matches? Those weighed almost twice as much as an SM58 and were being brought in and out constantly by the cable. 

As far as aiming goes if you cant get a connector attaching some tie line to the bottom of the head of the mic and tying it off at the cable will help you with the vertical aim and also allow of some more control to get the microphone turned in the right direction. To get the horizontal you will have to twist at the top of the cable line in the direction you want the mic to stay (and i would suggest taping it that way). It may move overtime so it should be part of the PE job to make sure its aimed in the right direction...

I wouldn't suggest using anything but good overhead condenser mics but i have been in the situation where the only way to mic was from above and all we had was some old Shure mics.


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## Anonymous067 (Mar 16, 2011)

Would I trust the cable/connector...yes...

Do I really WANT to...not really? and just dry hanging it by the cable doesn't give you much control (the control I want!).


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## shiben (Mar 16, 2011)

Anonymous067 said:


> Would I trust the cable/connector...yes...
> 
> Do I really WANT to...not really? and just dry hanging it by the cable doesn't give you much control (the control I want!).


 
So do this: Hang the mic stright down with the cable, leaving several loops up top and using a spring clamp to keep it in place. If your feeling scared about it, use some e-tape and loop the cable a bit so that the cable loop is tapped to the mic. Then use 2 pieces of fish line (preferable to tie line because its a bit more invisible) to tow out the mic to the desired angle. Use e-tape to secure all your hanging and towing cables. Record away. There exist specialized clips of all sorts to take the strain off of the XLR connector and to position the mic at a greater variety of angles, but im sure a standard clip could be modified using zip ties to the XLR. We have had great success using KSM 137s in matched pairs for just this, as well as a lot of much higher end (and thus astronomically more expensive) microphones for recording all sorts of events. If you are in a pinch, you can use SM57s without too much trouble, I would assume.


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## museav (Mar 17, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Really? what microphones have you been working with? XLR connectors that are attached to quality cable and the microphones are generally strong enough to hold 5 lbs of static force (STATIC not in motion).


So since the microphone is not fixed and you would want a minimum 10:1 factor for any dynamic loads, that's a maximum of 8oz., assuming the XLR is working properly. A SM58 weighs 10.5oz, a SM81 8oz and a SM94 or BG4.1 are 8.8oz without a battery.

You might get some ideas here, Modular Microphone Array Positioners – Products – AEA Big Ribbon Mics™ Mic Preamps and Recording Tools or here, Atlas Sound - Product Category. Or simply use some hanging/choir style microphones.


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## blackisthenewblack (Mar 17, 2011)

Or you could just hang this.
(Full credit to Shure 55s Microphone | Flickr - Photo Sharing!)


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## Anonymous067 (Mar 17, 2011)

blackisthenewblack said:


> View attachment 4683
> 
> 
> Or you could just hang this.
> (Full credit to Shure 55s Microphone | Flickr - Photo Sharing!)


 
I'll pass.


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## Dover (Mar 17, 2011)

I think you are looking for something like this hanging mount
There is also a version that looks like an eye bolt with the stem threaded into an adapter to match a mic clip. The principle is the same but instead of a clip, zip ties are used to secure the eye of the bolt to the cable

Hopes this helps
Dover


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## rphilip (Mar 19, 2011)

Anonymous067 said:


> Before I even ask my question, can somebody inform me if this is touchable subject or not? My question involves how to hang a microphone from a lineset or attach the clip somehow to the batten (suspended)...?
> 
> Please no subject answers until a mod approves or rejects this...


 
At my church we have 4 mics hung from this Neumann hanger:
Georg Neumann GmbH - Products/Current Accessories/MNV 87 (mt)

Two of the mic's are RE20's which make SM58's look light.

Philip


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## Chris15 (Mar 20, 2011)

Some thoughts...

A 3/8" mic stand thread is a standard 3/8" thread. What this means is that if you grab a thread adapter you can stick tha into the (normally) 5/8 fitting on the bottom of a mic stand boom (sans stand) and then stick a bolt through a clamp you second from lighting for a little while...
I should not want to do this without a backup means of securing the assembly, but a quick hole through the boom if you intend to do this regularly and you have a suitable point for a safety cable to pass through.

If you have a pipe that's your standard 2" OD or closer enough to that, and the pipe is in good condition, then what I would normally do is tie a clove hitch in the cable onto the batten. You don't have to do it up tight but I tend to find that if something goes wrong, mic cable frictions up quite nicely and I'd rather sacrifice a cable in that instance than have the mic fall on someone's head. It is a given that the latch of that connector must be in full operating capacity and that the strain relief be operating at it's prime.


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