# Underaged Volunteers, Rules and/or Guidelines



## BrockTucker (Jun 13, 2010)

Hello CB,

I'm working on creating some sort of rules or guidelines for volunteers at the community theater I manage. Things such as age, what they can and cannot do, etc. Mostly I'm looking to address the age issue, as we have a lot of under 18 technicians that want to volunteer here.

How do you deal with volunteer technicians under 18 at your space?


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## MSLD (Jun 13, 2010)

Me being under 18 and being the lighting director at our theatre (dad is the tech director) i have to ALWAYS be under adult supervision. As well as all volunteers under 18.


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## derekleffew (Jun 13, 2010)

BrockTucker, I'd put together a list of what might be considered dangerous and discuss that list with the theatre's insurance carrier. The list could include:
Using stationary power tools for woodworking: table saw, radial arm, etc.
Using portable power tools for woodworking: circular saw, belt sander, etc.
Operating a sewing machine
Hanging/focusing lights from an AWP
Focusing lights while climbing a suspended truss, with appropriate PPE and training
Wiring electrical devices
and so on.

Back in the dark ages, just before the rumors began circulating that Wendy's used earthworms in its hamburger, those under 18 were allowed to do any task, except operate the patty machine. Sure, I could handle gallons of boiling oil for the fries, use the razor sharp onion slicer, and slave over a 400° grill, but don't even think of going near that big machine with all the guards and interlocks that turns 25 pound chubs of ground meat into 1/4 pound patties.


http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/brocktucker.html


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## Les (Jun 13, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> BrockTucker, I'd put together a list of what might be considered dangerous and discuss that list with the theatre's insurance carrier. The list could include:
> Using stationary power tools for woodworking: table saw, radial arm, etc.
> Using portable power tools for woodworking: circular saw, belt sander, etc.
> Operating a sewing machine
> ...



Good advice re the insurance Derek!

Now, did Wendy's at least let you dig for the earth worms?


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## Footer (Jun 14, 2010)

I let anyone do anything they want as long as I feel comfortable with them doing it. Can a 12 year old operate a table saw safer then some of my 60 year old volunteers? Yes. Yes they can. It not about age, its about ability. Some of my best volunteers are 13 years old. Don't limit it to age.


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## blackisthenewblack (Jun 14, 2010)

In regards to this, what stipulations does a school (Jr or Sr High), uphold. I know that we were required to have a teacher present whenever using power tools designed to cut, (this does not include drills or sanders) or work at heights. Does anyone have others?


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## MNicolai (Jun 14, 2010)

blackisthenewblack said:


> In regards to this, what stipulations does a school (Jr or Sr High), uphold. I know that we were required to have a teacher present whenever using power tools designed to cut, (this does not include drills or sanders) or work at heights. Does anyone have others?



Common sense is how we usually operate. There are some policies, such as no on under 18 (and who has not been professionally trained) using lifts. For the most part, people do what they're comfortable with and we don't have problems. Students who don't feel capable (or who haven't been trained) of using saws don't use saws. People who haven't been trained to use the rigging don't use the rigging. When students are working with devices that could cause amputation, other students/adults watch out for their safety.

Proper training on the front end leaves us less paranoid that something will go wrong. We don't let anyone get hurt and the school district and their insurance provider don't worry about us.

This doesn't work in all districts, though. We have full-time staff members who operate the arts center and theatre dept. We also have competent parents who help out monitor operations from time to time. Most school districts and community theatres are not as fortunate as us.


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## jonliles (Jun 14, 2010)

Bottom line here, you need to understand what the Child Labor Laws (both federal and State) and local policies are applicable in your situation.

For instance, at the local high school, the students were not allowed to use power saws (teacher policy) and they were not allowed to work at height (local policy).


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## museav (Jun 14, 2010)

I have to agree with Jon and Derek, check applicable laws and talk with the insurance carrier. When I was 16 and 17 I worked on a golf course grounds crew and there were very specific limitations imposed by the insurance carrier on what anyone under 18 could do and I have to think it would be even more tightly controlled now.

Regardless of their actual or perceived competence or maturity, the law still draws a very clear line between an adult and a child. In most states this division, the Age of Majority, occurs at age 18 but I believe it is 19 for Alabama and 21 for Mississippi and the District of Columbia. That someone may be of sufficient maturity or competence does not change their legal standing as a minor. I've been involved with instances of teens being treated as adults until something goes wrong, at which time they revert to having to be being viewed as minors, thus placing any related liability, or additional liability, onto others. For administrators, management and insurers this can be a major consideration.


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 17, 2010)

In this instance your insurance carrier will probably have the greatest voice in the matter. The Department of Labor provides that certain occupational hazards cannot be done by a minor, but some exemptions can be made when in an educational setting. Obviously local laws may be different and a link is provided on that page. 

I would also advise you to seek appropriate legal advice on drafting a waiver for the legal guardians to sign. Many youth (I was one of them) have an attitude of near invincibility and will be willing to put themselves at risk. So, while common sense is a good attitude that will lead towards a safer environment, not all laws seem to have been written with that in mind. It is always best to be better informed so that you can be prepared for when the unfortunate happens.


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## gcpsoundlight (Jul 1, 2010)

I have found (being under 18 myself) that in australia it is very much local laws. on the last production I was on, I could hang and focus lights, do 4om 3 phase runs patching etc. The only things I wasn't allowed to do (such as the scissor lift and the fly's) are all local laws rather than the theatre. I would definately consider ability in it, as it really irks me when in some venues I am only allowed to do some things which while other, non compitent people are allowed to do things that I can do in my sleep!


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## gafflover87 (Jul 1, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> BrockTucker,
> Back in the dark ages, just before the rumors began circulating that Wendy's used earthworms in its hamburger, those under 18 were allowed to do any task, except operate the patty machine. Sure, I could handle gallons of boiling oil for the fries, use the razor sharp onion slicer, and slave over a 400° grill, but don't even think of going near that big machine with all the guards and interlocks that turns 25 pound chubs of ground meat into 1/4 pound patties.
> 
> 
> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/brocktucker.html



Oh how true... sad but true.. that takes me back to high school. Ya you can stand in the rain all day long and get pneumonia, but stay away from the shovel!


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## gafflover87 (Jul 1, 2010)

jonliles said:


> For instance, at the local high school, the students were not allowed to use power saws (teacher policy) and they were not allowed to work at height (local policy).



When I was in high school if I didnt use that saw or get on that ladder we would have never had any of our shows done in time. No we didnt have any regulations on such things, but even if we did... Sometimes you have to do what you need to do.


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## museav (Jul 1, 2010)

gafflover87 said:


> When I was in high school if I didnt use that saw or get on that ladder we would have never had any of our shows done in time. No we didnt have any regulations on such things, but even if we did... Sometimes you have to do what you need to do.


And what makes you "have to" risk injury or death? Is there really anything in a high school or college show that can justify such a potential result?

I'll go back to my earlier point, while the idea that one day you are unable to be responsible for yourself and the next day are completely responsible is unrealistic, the law generally says that as a minor you are not responsible for your actions, but someone else likely is. All you do when you make decisions that "you have to do what you need to do" or to break rules related to safety is place yourself and others at increased risk. Thinking that such actions are justified for a school show just seems to support that maybe you are indeed not a responsible individual.

Sorry if this seems rude or a bit blunt, but things can look quite different whether you are on the side that will not be held legally responsible for what you do or are on the side that can be held legally and ethically responsbile for what others do.


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## erosing (Jul 2, 2010)

Perhaps someone will correct me if I am wrong, but don't some states have actaul laws regaurding use of power tools by minors? 

Back jn high school our TD worked at a public school (Wiscon) that we would travel to once or twice a year to help out. That school had signs on the wall citing some code/law about minors being forbidden from using any power tools except a drill (which had to be under supervision). This was a public school so they may have been under different laws, but they were strictly, and I mean strictly, enforced.

Anyone have any info/expierience with this? Unfortunately it's been much to long for me to remember any specifics from the signs (just a general appearance). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MacAlyster (Jul 7, 2010)

Being a TD for a high school that does an insane amount of productions I will say that the shows wouldn't get done if the students didn't use the tools. However, before they are allowed to use them they must have proper safety training and I have to be present with them to make sure they are using all of the safety equipment and proper use of the tool.

Anyone who volunteers in a shop should go through a decent training on safety with each tool and proper personal safety. I know I have to harp on the students about using "eyes and ears" all of the time.

So the short answers is train them properly and it should be safe, check with your insurance company about liability and legal about a wavier, and ALWAYS have good supervision. Remember there are local laws too that govern what a child from age to age can do. Theatre usually can get around most of it, but I wouldn't put anyone under freshman in HS on a table or panel saw.


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## zmb (Jul 8, 2010)

I took a technology class in school during the 09-10 year and as long as you passed the written safety tests you were allowed to use most shop equipment as long as the teacher was in the room.

In respect to local and state laws, in Washington if you are a student-learner in a paid or unpaid position and conditions are met you can preform "hazardous jobs."

A better way to look at preforming certain activities is if you are comfortable doing it. I am 100% fine with operating a powered miter saw because I have done it beform at home but it is strictly prohibited by the state except under very limited circumstances.


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## museav (Jul 9, 2010)

zmb said:


> A better way to look at preforming certain activities is if you are comfortable doing it.


I have to strongly disagree. A better way to look at it might be how comfortable both you and the person responsible for you are with your doing it in conjunction with what the law and safety policies allow. I don't think some appreciate the trust given and risk taken when an instructor allows you to perform any 'hazardous' activities. If you mess up and hurt someone it is your instructor, and possibly the school, that are going to be the ones incurring responsibility for your actions.


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 10, 2010)

I agree with Brad. The other problem with "comfort" is that it can be a feeling of knowing all the variables when you truly don't. People can be "comfortable" at heights and then start to take risks. That's when accidents seem to occur. 

Understand that as an underage person, you are basically in an apprentice situation. Your "master" must teach you and you must accept the restrictions placed on you.

Oh, how I wish we actually had traditional apprenticeships in this day and age.


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## Mim (Aug 25, 2010)

Our community use venue has these issues frequently - and I agree with many of the comments above. If there are not state or area rules for operation of power tools and equipment by minors, your insurance company should be your first call. 
Among the rules in place here are volunteer waivers which must be filled out by a parent or guardian if the individual is under 18 and a list of equipment they are not allowed to operate and a secondary list of equipment they can operate after proper training and with supervision. One of our performing groups here is a youth theatre for and by children - one of the ways we deal with construction and safety concerns is to have college interns studying production handle the large construction and implementation under the supervision of an area TD and the younger children assist with painting, set dressing and prop decoration. We do not allow anyone under 16 into the catwalks or other raised locations - and no one other than staff, contracted employees and adult volunteers may use the man-lift. There's quite a bit more detail pertaining to our current situation - but basically, if you find you have no rules, as I did when I began here several years ago, I feel it's better to err on the side of safety - even if it takes others some time to adjust to.


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## mstaylor (Aug 26, 2010)

When I was in school, predirt, we had shop classes where you learned power tools in 8th grade, this included lathes, table saws and drill presses. In HS I did all phases of the tech, set building, lights and sound. The only time I got in trouble was for cutting class to work in the theatre, not what I was doing when I got there. 
As mentioned, the biggest problem with kids doing dangerous tasks is only slghtly different than any other person learning a trade, they don't fully appreciate all the variables involved. At least with an adult they may have more life experience to speed the training. Of course, sometimes the opposite is true. 
The other problem with school settings is many try to remove any danger from everything. I am a two sport official and I see this problem in sports just like in theatre. You can't wrap kids and bubblewrap and completely protect them, they have to make mistakes to learn.


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## zmb (Aug 26, 2010)

I did take a shop class in 8th and 9th grade and did learn how to use power tools such as bandsaws, drill press, radial arm saw, etc.

And off mstaylor, the "Bubblewrap Generation" is trying to get protected from everthing. But earlier generations had lead paint and pipe solder, no seatbelts, and more. Have to wonder how they survived.


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## lieperjp (Aug 26, 2010)

Mim said:


> Among the rules in place here are volunteer waivers which must be filled out by a parent or guardian if the individual is under 18 and a list of equipment they are not allowed to operate and a secondary list of equipment they can operate after proper training and with supervision.


 
Something I've learned is that a "volunteer waiver" is never truly a waiver. If something goes wrong, it will still get back to you, no matter what piece of paper you wave at the lawyers. Nothing can beat good supvervision of underage volunteers (or anyone, for that matter!) Although the waiver as a contract is a great idea - points out to parents and students what they can and can't do.


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