# Scaffolding questions



## fredthe (Aug 29, 2011)

A local high school where I frequently help out is looking at purchasing some scaffolding, for two main purposes:

1. Access to their motorized fly system (motors are located about 45' above the stage, with no access provisions.)

2. Maintenance of houselights.

They are looking at the system from lightbulbscaffold.com (Welcome to Light Bulb Scaffolding!), as this seems to meet both the height requirement for the rigging, and the sloped-floor requirement for houselights. This will be used by school staff, NOT students. Given this system, I've got two questions:

1. Has anyone here used this system? Any comments?

2. The assembly instructions for the scaffolding contain this interesting step, listed _after_ installing the guard rails on the top level:

> *9. Guy the Tower.*
> When the tower exceeds 30 feet high, it must be guyed
> down in three directions, or otherwise secured to prevent
> tipping. Use 200-lb+ working load rope and an attachment
> point that will withstand a 200-lb. pull



Has anyone seen a requirement like this for other scaffolding systems? None of the sales literature mentions guying, even though they sell it for use up to 150' high! (Their website shows one with a total height of about 34', with no guys.) Would this be a sign to stay away from this system?

As an added part of the tale, here's the "I told you so" moment:
One of the rigging motors had started making odd noises earlier this year; it's been locked out, but it needs to be inspected. Around May, a request was made to purchase the aforementioned scaffolding, but schools being the way there are, no one higher up saw any urgency.... until the Mineral, VA earthquake.

As a result of the quake, there are now about a half-dozen of the houselights with their trim rings and/or other parts dangling from the ceiling (why you use safeties on _everything_.) Of course, there's no way to get up to the lights to fix them (or look at the rigging for any damage) until they get a scaffold.


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## sk8rsdad (Aug 29, 2011)

The high school may be better served to rent scaffold, or an articulating boom lift (assuming there is a way to get it inside the building) on those rare occasions that they need access, rather than owning their own scaffold. Assembling a tower that tall comes with its own set of issues.


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## fredthe (Aug 29, 2011)

sk8rsdad said:


> The high school may be better served to rent scaffold, or an articulating boom lift (assuming there is a way to get it inside the building) on those rare occasions that they need access, rather than owning their own scaffold. Assembling a tower that tall comes with its own set of issues.


The school system requires that any scaffold rental includes setup/teardown. Renting a scaffold to reach the motors was estimated at $5,000. Purchase price for what they are looking at is under $6,000, and can be used in other spots in the school with limited access. Keep in mind that the rigging system should be inspected annually.

An articulating boom could possibly get into the house (with the removal of some seats,) but not on stage; so that's out.


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## Scarrgo (Aug 29, 2011)

Have you considered a Genie Lift? They are expensive, but well worth the cost and could serve multi-purpose. They also have a "Super Straddle" that goes over the seats to do houselights.(We have one, works well)

I looked at there website, and they have one model that might work for the 45' trim, it is the "AWP-40S-AC". 

If had a choice I would rather sling a cable around for power over the DC model, but thats me, it seems that no matter what, the battery runs out when I want to use it...

Sean...


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## Lambda (Aug 29, 2011)

I can speak for the Genie AWP-40S, we have the same one. It works fine for us. I believe it has a working height of 40 feet, so if you're more than five feet tall then you should be able to work on your 45"ceiling. We have the DC model and it worked fine until the battery wore out. It doesn't run on AC power at all, you have to wait for it to charge. I'd rather have the AC one, since we always have to keep the thing plugged in anyway. 
We don't have the "super straddle", though. The houselights at my school are maintained by the janitors and not the tech crew, because they somehow manage to get to them without without removing any seats.


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## Footer (Aug 29, 2011)

That is a pretty small tower. It only measures 4x5. Standard construction scaff is 5x7. I would be really weary of taking a 4x5 tower to 45' without large outriggers or guy wires of some sort. That is just not that big of a footprint to take to that height. 20' is fine with that size footprint in my "looks ok" book. 30' is pushing it. 40' is out of the question. The only way I would go that high is to built a tower with multiple sections pushing the footprint bigger.

Price out a genie AWP-40 and a supper straddle. Yes they are more then a scaff tower... but they are much safer. Without fall arrest, I would not feel comfortable setting up a scaff tower to reach something 45' in the air. I have spent more then my fair share on top of a scaff tower working in a theatre. They are great and the price is also great. However, they are a last resort thing. Push for the genie. They can be used all over the place.


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## derekleffew (Aug 29, 2011)

Footer said:


> That is a pretty small tower. It only measures 4x5. Standard construction scaff is 5x7. I would be really weary of taking a 4x5 tower to 45' without large outriggers or guy wires of some sort. That is just not that big of a footprint to take to that height. 20' is fine with that size footprint in my "looks ok" book. 30' is pushing it. 40' is out of the question. The only way I would go that high is to built a tower with multiple sections pushing the footprint bigger. ...



From A Guide to Scaffold Use in the Construction Industry - OSHA 3150.pdf :

> *When do supported scaffolds need to be
> restrained from tipping?*
> 
> Supported scaffolds with a height to base width
> ...



Never heard of using guy wires indoors, seems pretty impractical. Go with a vertical mast personnel lift (AWP).


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## Footer (Aug 29, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> From A Guide to Scaffold Use in the Construction Industry - OSHA 3150.pdf :
> 
> 
> Never heard of using guy wires indoors, seems pretty impractical. Go with a vertical mast personnel lift (AWP).


 
Thanks for that. I knew there was a ratio, could not remember it. When I was buying scaffold, this was the cheapest: scaffoldmart.com


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## kicknargel (Aug 30, 2011)

Plus, think of the hour you'll spend each time you need to move the scaff to the next houselight.


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## avkid (Aug 30, 2011)

4x5 to 45ft you say?

I've climbed some pretty stupid things in my life, but I wouldn't touch that.


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## headcrab (Aug 30, 2011)

We bought a scaffold from scaffoldmart.com too, and we like it a lot. But I would hate to have to assemble (or climb) a 45' scaffold.


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## FACTplayers (Aug 30, 2011)

Working in the construction industry and being required to take OSHA training courses teaches a lot about the dangers of scaffolding. Guy wires are VERY common for use. The company is right, scaffold (especially when it is small and narrow like what you described) is very prone to tipping. For the amount of work it takes to put scaffold up and take down, scrap the idea and buy some type of powered lift. It will save time (hence money) and be much much safer.


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## jwl868 (Aug 30, 2011)

Note that Maryland's OSHA program applies to public sector employees, too. (I'm assuming that the school is a public school.)

Joe


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## fredthe (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you all for the replies, especially Derek's reference to the OSHA regs. Hopefully this will provide ammunition to the administration as to why this is not a good solution.

I agree that the Genie AWP-40S-AC plus the Super Straddle would be the ideal solution; we just need to convince the administration that the (approx) $10k + $5k investment in those is better than the $6k scaffold. We will highlight the fact that in order to use the scaffold above 30', they would need to install rated anchor points; hopefully that will kill the scaffold idea. Of course they still don't believe that the rigging should be inspected annually. (The theater was totally rebuilt a couple of years ago, why do they need to spend more money on it?)

Yes, this is a public school. The sad thing is that the central maintenance dept used to have the responsibility for replacing burned-out houselights, and supposedly had a Genie lift and Super Stradle for this purpose. In the last few years, policy nas changed, and the school's janitors are reaponsible for _all_ lightbulbs. If course, they don't provide a way to get to the lights. The school has a shorter lift, but even if they had the Super Stradle they couldn't reach all the lights.

To top it all off, the person responsible for the theater isn't allowed to use the Genie, because he isn't trained... and they won't train him. So, even with a taller lift, the rigging inspection might need to be conducted by the janitors.

In the mean time, they will continue to use the theater, even with bits hanging from the ceiling. Almost half of the house lights are burned out, and at an assembly on the opening day of school the TD was asked if he could turn up the house lights... they were already up full.


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## kicknargel (Aug 30, 2011)

If district central maintenance has the proper lift, maybe it can be check out? Or if not, maybe the new purchase can be shared by the district to spread out the cost, if you only need it 1 wk/yr. Or, I know you said you couldn't rent scaffold, but could you rent a lift?

Not that you haven't thought of these, and I'm sure there's some bureaucrat in the way at every step.


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## FACTplayers (Aug 31, 2011)

Simply call up the company you purchased your existing lift from. Odds are they will come out and train anyone interested in using the lift for free.


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## mstaylor (Sep 4, 2011)

fredthe said:


> Thank you all for the replies, especially Derek's reference to the OSHA regs. Hopefully this will provide ammunition to the administration as to why this is not a good solution.
> 
> I agree that the Genie AWP-40S-AC plus the Super Straddle would be the ideal solution; we just need to convince the administration that the (approx) $10k + $5k investment in those is better than the $6k scaffold. We will highlight the fact that in order to use the scaffold above 30', they would need to install rated anchor points; hopefully that will kill the scaffold idea. Of course they still don't believe that the rigging should be inspected annually. (The theater was totally rebuilt a couple of years ago, why do they need to spend more money on it?)
> 
> ...


 
It never ceases to amaze me, the stupid things that educated people do when put in supervisory positions. They are requiring the janitors to replace lights that they can't reach, required to use equipment they don't have and aren't trained to use if they had it. Absolutely brilliant.


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