# Kevin Lee Truss Fire



## Footer (Jun 10, 2017)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1448122878577462&id=119756381414125

Anyone else see that? Can anyone identify that fixture? LED profile of some kind... Doesn't look like an ETC anything.


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## SteveB (Jun 10, 2017)

Who's Kevin Lee ?


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## techieman33 (Jun 10, 2017)

Looks a little like the monoprice unit, kind of hard to tell. There are a lot of Chinese lights that have a similar body shape.


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## venuetech (Jun 10, 2017)

judging by the well lit vent pattern it looks a lot like this. note: the first overview photo shows a different pattern than the detail views.
Aliexpress
do a search for : GIGERTOP TP-010


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 11, 2017)

Well, that looked like dry powder, rather than CO2; I hope not too many people got it all over themselves and inhaled it -- it's probably going to trash all the adjacent movers, too...


CO2 is about 3 times as much money, and worth every. Friggin. Penny if you have an electronic rig to protect.


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## Chris15 (Jun 11, 2017)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Well, that looked like dry powder, rather than CO2; I hope not too many people got it all over themselves and inhaled it -- it's probably going to trash all the adjacent movers, too...
> 
> CO2 is about 3 times as much money, and worth every. Friggin. Penny if you have an electronic rig to protect.


CO2 is an great extinguishant in a confined space you are not in.
It works by being heavier than air and so displacing oxygen. If it can dissipate, as in an open space, that displacement is short lived, and smoulders reignite, rendering it mostly useless.
No CO2 extinguisher I've ever known had a rating for flammable solids, only for flammable liquids, so in most general applications, it's not rated for surrounding ordinary hazard class. If that hazard class is being addressed by water extinguishers or sprinklers and you have a flammable liquids risk, by all means go ahead...

I've always been of the opinion that yes, powder is messy, but fire has already caused a mess and I'd prefer to have something that I was more confident would actually put the fire out.
As always though, please defer to a competent professional, holding any licences required in your jurisdiction, for local, situation specific fire safety engineering advice...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 11, 2017)

Absolutely.

Specifically if your trusses are too high. 

That said, without my input, the datacenters and booths I've worked in have generally had CO2 hand extinguishers, and my comments above were based on input from the extinguisher guys who -- while not firefighters or AHJs -- could presumably be expected to have some knowledge of the topic.


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## Chris15 (Jun 11, 2017)

Jay Ashworth said:


> That said, without my input, the datacenters and booths I've worked in have generally had CO2 hand extinguishers


Yep, racks are a great example of a confined space you're not in and you can starve a fire pretty quickly with CO2 displacement

Most often data centres and the like mostly use gas systems. Sometimes it is CO2, especially popular in indoor electrical substations, or more exotic gases like the trade name Inergen system, I think Nitrogn gets a look in sometimes soon. There's a fair bit of science in getting the dispersion so that it knocks down fires quickly while giving humans a chance to escape or survive if their caught...

Water mist can also work, the very fine droplets disrupt the ability of the stream to conduct electrically so is reasonably safe for shock. Equipment damage can be another matter...

Firewalls don't always run software in data centres


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## venuetech (Jun 11, 2017)

As i understand it Co2 is rated for energized equipment, the class of the fire changes when the equipment is de-energized.


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## porkchop (Jun 11, 2017)

Halo is expensive, but worth it around expensive gear. We went to it for the vicinity of all of our critical cabinets.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 11, 2017)

porkchop said:


> Halo is expensive, but worth it around expensive gear. We went to it for the vicinity of all of our critical cabinets.


@porkchop ; "Halo" as an abbreviation for 'Halon' can I assume, or am I misinterpreting? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## EdSavoie (Jun 11, 2017)

Halon?

Isn't that kinda-sorta a CFC, and thus no longer in mass production?


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## techieman33 (Jun 11, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @porkchop ; "Halo" as an abbreviation for 'Halon' can I assume, or am I misinterpreting?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.




EdSavoie said:


> Halon?
> 
> Isn't that kinda-sorta a CFC, and thus no longer in mass production?



Halon production was banned in the 90's. There are probably still some existing systems using it but since those systems are all 20+ years old odds are there aren't many of them around. Maybe Halo is one of the many alternatives that came after it was banned.


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## Chris15 (Jun 12, 2017)

My guess is that @porkchop might be referring to Halotron, seemingly a Halon replacement product: http://www.halotron.com/products.php

Halons have an ozone depletion rate something like 10 times that of CFCs. One kilogram of Halon can destroy 50 tonnes of Ozone...
As such, at least in Australia, its use is restricted to certain essential uses where the fire risk poses a danger to human life and no acceptable alternative exists, in general meaning one of 3 circumstances:

International Maritime Vessels - for engines fires, certain cargo fires, suitable alternatives exist and this use is towards the end of being phased out
Defence applications - explosion suppression, fire containment etc
Aviation - private, commercial and defence, in portable extinguishers, engine fire protection and cargo suppression.
As old Halon systems are decommissioned, the Halon is reclaimed for reuse in filling those remaining essential needs, so just because it is Halon doesn't make it 25+ years old, it could be a new product filled with reclaimed Halon...

We do end up going on such interesting tangents some days...


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## gafftaper (Jun 12, 2017)

So I want to know what the house is full of people while this fixture is still on fire. The comedian is saying he's going back on stage. The audience is there cheering for the fire to be put out! What's with that?!?!


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## EdSavoie (Jun 12, 2017)

That was a little odd...

My guess is that since the techs didn't pull any kind of alarm and they just dealt with it, there wasn't really any cause for them to be terribly worried.

Plus, it looks like the flames themselves might be hardly visible from the audience's view point.


On the bright side, I may have some cannon fodder to keep the school board from replacing our Source Fours with cheap chinese imports a local shop is "certifying". Ha ha!


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## MNicolai (Jun 12, 2017)

Sounded like they ended up evacuating, canceling the show, and rescheduling.

However much money they saved buying these China spots probably just got refunded to patrons several times over.


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## DavidJones (Jun 12, 2017)

Every show I have worked that used Pyro, The Pyro company, and Fire Marshal expected Co2. Same goes for every production rider that has come across my desk; Co2. There may be different standards in different places, but that has been my experience.


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## porkchop (Jun 12, 2017)

Halotron yes, although there are some recycled Halon clean agent extinguishers out there that can still be purchased for similar purposes.


DavidJones said:


> Every show I have worked that used Pyro, The Pyro company, and Fire Marshal expected Co2. Same goes for every production rider that has come across my desk; Co2. There may be different standards in different places, but that has been my experience.



CO2 is significantly more well known. AHJ's primary focus is rarely pyro so it is much easier to just use what they're familiar with. Also in a practical sense CO2 is much cheaper and easier to replenish so you're more likely to have a greater amount of extinguishing capability if those are what you've brought for fire safety. That's also why water cannon style type A extinguishers are popular for shows where the pyro is most likely to start a class A fire (trash, wood and paper). I used to have both water and CO2 at my firing position.

On a touring rig I would put a halotron near the dimmer and audio racks and have more standard extinguisher elsewhere. For a reasonably contained fire like what's in the video you would have time for the lighting guy to say "no use this one".


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## DavidJones (Jun 12, 2017)

porkchop said:


> Halotron yes, although there are some recycled Halon clean agent extinguishers out there that can still be purchased for similar purposes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Makes total sense.
...and Type A is also great for watering the interns.


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## porkchop (Jun 13, 2017)

DavidJones said:


> ...and Type A is also great for watering the interns.



Proven fact


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## venuetech (Jun 13, 2017)

gafftaper said:


> So I want to know what the house is full of people while this fixture is still on fire. The comedian is saying he's going back on stage. The audience is there cheering for the fire to be put out! What's with that?!?!


Looks like the truss has started back upward by the end of the clip.


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## techieman33 (Jun 13, 2017)

venuetech said:


> Looks like the truss has started back upward by the end of the clip.



I didn't notice it before, but it does seem to look that way. And if that's true that's a much larger problem than what kind of fire extinguisher they were using.


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## gafftaper (Jun 13, 2017)

techieman33 said:


> I didn't notice it before, but it does seem to look that way. And if that's true that's a much larger problem than what kind of fire extinguisher they were using.


Yeah the one technician who appears to get covered by the fire extinguisher, then appears to give an all clear, go ahead and raise it back up sort of signal and it starts to move,


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## Van (Jun 13, 2017)

gafftaper said:


> Yeah the one technician who appears to get covered by the fire extinguisher, then appears to give an all clear, go ahead and raise it back up sort of signal and it starts to move,


Yeah, cause I'm sure all that heat didn't damage any of the other cables...or the truss.


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