# Dealing with problem outside staff



## dshriver (Aug 29, 2013)

Hello everyone,

I'm the TD of a concert hall. For events presented by us I often serve as the FoH engineer unless the act carries their own. On rental events though the outside producer often wants to bring in their own sound engineer. This is usually fine, and I act as TD and system tech to get the visiting engineer up to speed on the hall systems and to make sure everything is going smoothly and safely. However, we have one outside renter who keeps bringing in a sound engineer who is a problem. This engineer has a substance abuse problem and has been here, working, while drunk/high several times. His skills are poor to moderate even when sober and they suffer greatly when he's inebriated. I've bought this concern up to senior management but they want me to prove the outside engineer is intoxicated. They feel its my word against his and refuse to ban this producer from using this engineer. 

I feel this guy is unsafe and shouldn't be allowed back in, ever. My superiors feel differently, and expect me to be there to supervise. Its putting me in what I feel is an impossible situation. My relationship with this engineer has gotten very contentious as he feels I'm personally attacking him. 

Have you had to deal with problematic outside/visiting staff? Any suggestions on how to handle this situation?

Thanks in advance!

-David


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## Amiers (Aug 29, 2013)

I have dealt with this on a number of occasions as my boss thinks by hiring the cheaper person she gets her monies worth. I think you did exactly what you needed. In my cases I directed my concerns threw the safety card out there and left it at that. Eventually he will screw up or break something costly and upper management will kick them to the curb at their cost for not listening.

As far as dealing with him, I would go about your daily work and ignore him unless he asks you a question but since he is a reoccurring hire on really you shouldn't need to talk to him at all. The more you fuss the better he looks and less likely you will get him out of the job.

Now on the extreme you could always insinuate mildly to the renter about their drug policy and how many staff they have had to let go because of drug or alcohol abuse on the job.


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## len (Aug 29, 2013)

1. Videotape him (which may be illegal) intoxicated.
2. Ignore it until he injures himself or someone else, then say "I told you so."
3. File a written complaint with the board or whoever.


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## SteveB (Aug 29, 2013)

He's mixing FOH sound ?, how "unsafe" can he be ?. How do you know he has a substance abuse problem ?, have you witnessed him drinking alcohol or doing/taking drugs ?. If not, I'd be cautious about making assumptions, even though the signs may all be there. 

If he was running fly's, up in a bucket, or hanging gear, then I'd be concerned, but otherwise, it's annoying and unprofessional but otherwise out of your control.

Remember that he's not working for you, he's technically an employee of the producer renting the hall. So really unless that producer is unhappy, then you mostly have no responsibility other then to make sure that he does those aspects of the job in a safe manner. Making it sound like crap doesn't count.


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## Footer (Aug 29, 2013)

Only time we have pulled someone from a road crew (who this guy basically is even in a local way) was because they were verbally abusing my crew members. We had mutiple witnesses, I talked to his boss, and they guy was escorted from the building. That was a pretty easy call to make. 

On the flipside of that though I have had to deal with more then my fair share of drunk groupie types (especially with tribute bands... I hate tribute bands...) Best thing to do is to leave them alone until they are about to do something unsafe. At that point pull the plug and have them pulled. 

Make sure you having proper processing and protection in place on your PA. After that, let the guy do his thing. If the guy pulls out a mirror FOH and starts doing lines of the console... that is a different story. It is not your show, let it ride. If he blows the gig then you won't see him again.


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## chieftfac (Sep 5, 2013)

If you see him do something that puts a patron or fellow crew member in danger, then tell him to leave. If he is a hazard to facility equipment, tell him to leave. If all he does is a poor job at FoH, there is not much you can do. Are there any policies about consumption on the property? I mean if he's showing up intoxicated and still is (or worse) after 4 hours, that means he is sneaking off to further his present state. That could be one way you could remove him. Now, if management is not backing you in this and it is your responsibility (IE; Job Description) to safeguard against these types of things (just equipment damage... everyone's job is safety) Then there are some politics going on that you might not be aware of. You might want to move on. 

I've managed to put in our rental contract that the house will pick outside contractors, vendors or crew. There is even a contract item about removing people who, in the staff's determination, impede the safe operation and business of the center. In 21+ years I've only had to remove someone once. Someone (a volunteer) was drinking a beer while running the fly rail during a production. I got the "well it's only one curtain to pull in and out..." All I said was "Get Out" I was lucky enough to have the full backing of my boss and Board Directors.


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## SteveB (Sep 5, 2013)

chieftfac said:


> I've managed to put in our rental contract that the house will pick outside contractors, vendors or crew. .



Really ?. And you get away with that ?. It would seem to me that you would have to state this policy in advance, in writing, in either a technical specifications addendum to a contract, or in the actual contract, in order for potential users to be aware of the policy. Then possibly taking this to an extreme example, here's some issues I see with that policy:

How do you deal with a road show that is contracted by an outside promoter renting your space ?. Do you insist on right of approval of the road crew ?. If I was the PM of a road crew of a national tour of a Broadway musical, I'd have some issues with a rental hall exercising that level of control. Do you tell an artist like Tony Bennett that you don't like his LD and will not work with him ?, based on past experience ?.

In my 32 years at a road house, I may have desired some control over who the rental promoter hires in terms of company and/or crew, but we have never been in a position to refuse to work with a company or associated crew. That is the promoters responsibility and right. We have, on occasion, when notified of a particular company whose gear and staff are what we consider less then professional, or otherwise have practices that we consider costly and not typical, exercised our right to surcharge the promoter for the extra expenses resulting of using a particular company (or person - I.E. LD/ Sound Designer, etc...).


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## chieftfac (Sep 5, 2013)

I must apologize for not giving a frame of reference with that post... We are a small fine arts center in a county of only 22,000. We seat 320 and our stage is 31' x 27' proscenium type. The nearest sound and lighting contractors are an hour away. So really my space is not even in the same league as someone like Footer's. However, the main reason that was put in the contract is the mindset that everything on our stage is a reflection of our non profit. To be blunt, it keeps the local garden club or junior league from trying to do something in our space that they have no business doing. I don't even like L&N productions coming in. (Please see Cleveland Co. NC stage collapse ) They just do sound for a few events and are not allowed to rig anything or touch house equipment. I know that's extreme but they are slipshod in their approach 


Edit... In first post I used the word "pick" when I should have used "approve"... I really should wear my bifocals when typing...


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## SteveB (Sep 6, 2013)

chieftfac said:


> the main reason that was put in the contract is the mindset that everything on our stage is a reflection of our non profit.
> 
> ..




A very good point.


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