# Can A Fire Marshal Ban Haze???



## lightman02 (Dec 8, 2011)

I had an event last year where the towns fire marshall got pretty pissed because we were using what he called a smoke like effect (ultra tech hazer) which he said could create confusion. We decided not to use it further for the last two nights of the show so we would not create a big fight. Now I might have a gig at the same venue and my question is, can I fight this? We used the haze in a light maner and never used thick smoke where it would inpair vision. It was light haze only. I read though as many fire policies as I could online for the town and could not find anything reagarding to theatre or any type of effects. Can the fire marshall just do what he wants or do I have a fight??


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## Footer (Dec 8, 2011)

The fire marshal can do whatever they want when they want. If you fight it your show could get shut down for any violation they can find. Don't fight it. In my building we have to get clearance from state fire to do any atmospheric effects. Don't push it. If you want to have a friendly dialog about it way in advance of the gig, go for it. Keep it positive though. 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## lightman02 (Dec 8, 2011)

Footer said:


> The fire marshal can do whatever they want when they want. If you fight it your show could get shut down for any violation they can find. Don't fight it. In my building we have to get clearance from state fire to do any atmospheric effects. Don't push it. If you want to have a friendly dialog about it way in advance of the gig, go for it. Keep it positive though.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


 
Wouldn't state overide the town fire marshall?


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## josh88 (Dec 8, 2011)

Footer has to go through the state because he's on state property if I'm not mistaken. Again, don't fight it and (not that you are thinking of it) don't try to side step the local marshall by going over his or her head.


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## lightman02 (Dec 8, 2011)

josh88 said:


> Footer has to go through the state because he's on state property if I'm not mistaken. Again, don't fight it and (not that you are thinking of it) don't try to side step the local marshall by going over his or her head.


 
I'm just suprised, in all these years I never had this problem. I could understand thick smoke but light haze makes no sense. It is what it is I guess.


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## josh88 (Dec 8, 2011)

their jobs are to interpret the laws and codes to best protect public safety. some AHJ's opinions differ in how exactly to do that. Using this as an example, some may be fine with haze in a theatre some may react like you've seen. Some could require a person stand fire watch during events. It all depends on the AHJ and the situations. The best thing you can do is play nice and stay friendly because as Footer mentioned they could shut you down at the drop of a hat.


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## mstaylor (Dec 10, 2011)

I work in an arena in one town that won't allow any effects including dry ice. They cite it will set off the duct detecters. In my arena we are allowed to do whatever we want as long as any pyro is permited and inspected. Haze or anything else is fine as long as we have a fire watch. I work in a third venue that will allow it but you have the safety guy sitting fire watch. Three different counties and two different states.


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## Footer (Dec 10, 2011)

lightman02 said:


> Wouldn't state overide the town fire marshall?



Yes and no. Both have jurisdiction. However, as stated, my building is owned by the state... on state property. My building is on the NYS capital complex. With that, we have a 8 fire marshals on site, one being on duty 24/7. So, I usually have a fire marshal in my space at least once during any given show. 


mstaylor said:


> I work in an arena in one town that won't allow any effects including dry ice. They cite it will set off the duct detecters. In my arena we are allowed to do whatever we want as long as any pyro is permited and inspected. Haze or anything else is fine as long as we have a fire watch. I work in a third venue that will allow it but you have the safety guy sitting fire watch. Three different counties and two different states.


 
I actually have that same issue. I have smoke heads on my stage, one USC 20' off deck and the rest 65' off deck on the grid. When they trip, firewall comes in, audible alarm goes off.... trucks roll... etc. However, I can go into a bypass that essentially turns off the strobes, audible, and fire wall relays. It does activate a panel onstage and still sends an alarm to the state police dispatch on property. I then have to inspect the head and give an all clear. 

HOWEVER.... there are air quality sensors in all of my return air ducts. If one of those sensors gets tripped, HVAC totally shuts down, an alarm goes off in the state police dispatch, and trucks roll. No alarm is signaled in the theatre. Instead, you know it tripped by having firefighters in turnout gear in the back isle. When the HVAC shuts down, that is it for the day. Shows over, full evac, etc. The building can not be open with HVAC shut down and it can not be turned back on until the building clears. So, yes, this is real. It has not happened since I have been in my current job, but it has happened the the last few years. 

Its one more reason I never let a road LD run their own haze, instead Mrs. Footer gets to play "haze monkey". Now, tomorrow night I have the bass player from Phish in, so I doubt we will even need to run the hazer....


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## venuetech (Dec 10, 2011)

Footer said:


> I can go into a bypass that essentially turns off the strobes, audible, and fire wall relays. It does activate a panel onstage and still sends an alarm to the state police dispatch on property. I then have to inspect the head and give an all clear.


Do you need to notify the various jurisdictions when you go into "bypass" mode? if so how much notice do they need?


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## venuetech (Dec 10, 2011)

lightman02 said:


> Can the fire marshall just do what he wants or do I have a fight??


 
I think it likely has to do with allocation of resources. If the fire department sends most of its crews and equipment out to properly respond to the venue size. Those resources depend on each other to properly respond. Then they are unavailable to respond to a real life and death situation when responding to what turns out to be a false alarm. The unknown nature of the alarm puts the fire commander in a very tight position when a second need arises. This Fire Marshal may have been in such a situation before. He just wants to be able to get help to the people who have a real need, when they need it.


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## Footer (Dec 10, 2011)

venuetech said:


> Do you need to notify the various jurisdictions when you go into "bypass" mode? if so how much notice do they need?


 
No advance warning really. Just a simple call down to dispatch to let them know whats going on. If we are going to have open flame onstage we do require a fire Marshall to be onstage at all times, however, for haze its not required. They let us run the fire watch. 

Once again though, this is a state building. Local laws don't apply. Really, on top of that, state laws also don't apply.

When we go into "bypass", we spin a 6 hour timer... and I set an alarm on my phone to re-set before it runs out. If it runs out, it puts the alarm system into normal operation. Therefore, it is impossible to have the alarm turned off for more then 6 hours if no one its in the building.


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## lightman02 (Dec 13, 2011)

venuetech said:


> I think it likely has to do with allocation of resources. If the fire department sends most of its crews and equipment out to properly respond to the venue size. Those resources depend on each other to properly respond. Then they are unavailable to respond to a real life and death situation when responding to what turns out to be a false alarm. The unknown nature of the alarm puts the fire commander in a very tight position when a second need arises. This Fire Marshal may have been in such a situation before. He just wants to be able to get help to the people who have a real need, when they need it.


 
Well there would in fact be no bypasing the alarm with the show I was working on. They only had heat detection. When we were using the haze, we had the alarm system fully online. Like I said we have done shows there before with haze and never had a problem and never tripped any alarms. He even had a problem with a C02 based hand held conffetti launcher. He wouldn't let them use that either. Seems more of a power trip thing then saftey at this point.


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## museav (Dec 13, 2011)

lightman02 said:


> Well there would in fact be no bypasing the alarm with the show I was working on. They only had heat detection. When we were using the haze, we had the alarm system fully online. Like I said we have done shows there before with haze and never had a problem and never tripped any alarms. He even had a problem with a C02 based hand held conffetti launcher. He wouldn't let them use that either. Seems more of a power trip thing then saftey at this point.


As Kyle and Josh stated earlier, it is their interpretation, not yours, that matters. You can fight their interpretation but that creates an adversarial relationship and is probably just going to make things worse. It is generally much better to try to work with them to try to find a solution that satisfies their concerns and works for you.

Also, don't think this is limited to effects. When I worked for an Electrical and Mechanical Engineering firm we often encountered an AHJ that would view something differently than in past inspections. I still remember a hotel that was being sold for which an inspection as a condition of the sale. The AHJ took issue with an kitchen exhaust hood duct condition that had been inspected and approved dozens of times before without comment. Doing what they wanted caused the vibration from the hood and associated airflow to be transferred directly into the rooms above making those rooms exceed the buyers criteria for guest room noise and vibration which in turn made the hotel short two viable guest rooms and threatened the entire sale. The fact that the same installation had been accepted in the past and in other venues was irrelevant, luckily we were able to develop a solution that resolved the noise and vibration while also being acceptable to the AHJ.


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## mstaylor (Dec 17, 2011)

When we bypass the fire system, it is just a alarm off type bypass. We place one of my hands to watch the fire panel, if it goes off I am notified and then decide to either allow the alarm through or reset it. It has only gone off once in this condition and it was a kid pulling a fire station. I'm surprised the building that allows the bypass actually burned down once.


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## Pie4Weebl (Dec 17, 2011)

so yeah, basically they can claim whatever they want based on their mood and you have no recourse, well except for just doing what you want and hoping they don't want to try and shut you down.

If he was worried about it creating confusion perhaps posting signs warning that "haze will be in use" might ease his concerns?

Also if you keep having issued with the fire marshall, hiring off duty officers to work security can go a loooonng way...


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## totalstage (Dec 29, 2011)

A little education without sounding condescending can go a long way. The job of Fire Marshall is very discretionary and they often err on the side of safety. That's the side I like to err on as well. If you can provide research and examples on what is being done in other venues and is allowable and if you provide samples, MSDS sheets and other supporting documentation for their review you can educate and perhaps even have them change their ruling on the matter. 
But if they decide you are causing them problems or questioning their authority they can and likely will slap you down. When your job is having discretionary decision making power having someone question you on that can be a bad play.


Pie4Weebl said:


> so yeah, basically they can claim whatever they want based on their mood and you have no recourse, well except for just doing what you want and hoping they don't want to try and shut you down.
> 
> If he was worried about it creating confusion perhaps posting signs warning that "haze will be in use" might ease his concerns?
> 
> Also if you keep having issued with the fire marshall, hiring off duty officers to work security can go a loooonng way...


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## elliot47 (Jan 13, 2012)

Hello, at our high school when we use pre wecorded warning that we play when we play the "please turn off your cell phone" warning before every show. The warning warns the audience that the show contains effects such as smoke, pyrotechnics, strobe lights, various other atmospheric effects etc...


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## josh88 (Jan 14, 2012)

elliot47 said:


> Hello, at our high school when we use pre wecorded warning that we play when we play the "please turn off your cell phone" warning before every show. The warning warns the audience that the show contains effects such as smoke, pyrotechnics, strobe lights, various other atmospheric effects etc...


 
That warning still isn't enough to permit you do do some of that stuff without clearing it with a fire marshal however. Just because you warn that you might have streaming jets of fire, your fire marshall probably wouldn't like it. I've had the "flight attendant" announcement at all of my venues, saying turn off cell phones, no photgraphy, and in the event of a fire exits are located at A, B, and C.


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## gafftaper (Jan 15, 2012)

josh88 said:


> That warning still isn't enough to permit you do do some of that stuff without clearing it with a fire marshal however. Just because you warn that you might have streaming jets of fire, your fire marshall probably wouldn't like it. I've had the "flight attendant" announcement at all of my venues, saying turn off cell phones, no photgraphy, and in the event of a fire exits are located at A, B, and C.



Very true, the rules on pyro have changed quite a bit since 9/11. Pyro things that were gray areas in the past are now possibly federal crimes. Never do any pyro without discussing what you want to do with your fire marshal and making sure you have a properly licensed technician to operate it.


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## CreativeSPFX (Jan 15, 2012)

Good points from everyone. As far as fighting it, I wouldn't recommended it. I shoot pyrotechnics full time. We get an average of 3-5 permits per week, and deal with a Fire Marshal/Inspector for each one. If they don't allow something that is perfectly legal by code (like in this case), we question it and try to work with them on how to accomplish things in a way that makes them comfortable (i.e having standby present, etc.). If it's still now allowed we don't usually fight it and lose they money. If it's a big enough show (usually $10k+) we get our attorney involved. It guarantees they'll hate you forever but it depends on how much business is at stake. It's definitely not a fun situation. Good luck!


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## CreativeSPFX (Jan 15, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Very true, the rules on pyro have changed quite a bit since 9/11. Pyro things that were gray areas in the past are now possibly federal crimes. Never do any pyro without discussing what you want to do with your fire marshal and making sure you have a properly licensed technician to operate it.


 
I agree 100%. Call your local pyro/fireworks company. They're well versed on the laws and can assist with permit acquisition. If you need them to provide a tech and insurance, it might cost a bit but will keep you legal. If you're with a school, you might be able to provide your own insurance and save a few bucks if they're just providing a tech and helping with the permit.


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## tdeater (Mar 14, 2012)

We have always had a good working relationship with our inspectors, but we invite them and educate them on some of these things. If it is possible, try to invite them in on a time that is most convenient for them, have some coffee or something ready, and show them what a hazer is, what goes in it, what it does, what the haze looks like, how you want to use it, etc. When we first opened, there was a large learning curve for the local fire people. They had never dealt with something like a theater with rigging and such. We did have our legal paperwork backups for what we would normally want to do, but never had to get them out. In a public safety training I was in recently, they said you have to be good with 'street diplomacy' when dealing with things like this. Test the waters, but don't rock the boat too much.


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## erwaggoner (Mar 25, 2012)

We have a similar issue, except it involves the local volunteer fire chief (translation: his training involved a few months of school and none in inspections etc.) and he will randomly throw out things that we aren't allowed to do for no real reason, and even though he has no real authority. The biggest issue we had was after a renovation, air handlers were installed with smoke sensors instead of just heat sensors like the rest of the room has (all doors have a smoke sensor immediately outside the door) so we had to disable them during shows that use fog. He came in and tried to stop us but the fire codes were on our side he just didn't know them!

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## marmer (Apr 2, 2012)

erwaggoner said:


> We have a similar issue, except it involves the local volunteer fire chief (translation: his training involved a few months of school and none in inspections etc.) and he will randomly throw out things that we aren't allowed to do for no real reason, and even though he has no real authority. The biggest issue we had was after a renovation, air handlers were installed with smoke sensors instead of just heat sensors like the rest of the room has (all doors have a smoke sensor immediately outside the door) so we had to disable them during shows that use fog. He came in and tried to stop us but the fire codes were on our side he just didn't know them!



Really? You have a code which allows you to disable air handler smoke detectors? Does it require you to set a firewatch? That's what our AHJ does, but it's a judgement call for them and I would really doubt that the code actually allows you to disable smoke detectors when you have the public in your building without taking some kind of compensatory measures.


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## bishopthomas (Apr 6, 2012)

I can now definitively answer the question as "YES." We just did a show in a gymnasium that we've worked dozens of times in the past (with haze) where the fire marshall said no "smoke." You would think a fire marshall of all people would understand the difference between haze and smoke, but not even a kindergarten level explanation could make him change his mind. The "club atmosphere" that we were there to create completely got destroyed minutes before the event was to start.


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## DaveySimps (Apr 6, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> You would think a fire marshall of all people would understand the difference between haze and smoke, but not even a kindergarten level explanation could make him change his mind. The "club atmosphere" that we were there to create completely got destroyed minutes before the event was to start.



They receive no training in the atmospheric effects we use in our industry, so I would never expect an AHJ to know the difference, no matter how obvious it appears to us. 

Often times it not the effect they are ruling against, it is the environment it creates (obstruction of a clear view of exits and obstacles, concerns with venue staff being able to see the crowd for crowd control and liquor control compliance, etc.). Often a poorly staffed fire department or a department that relies on all volunteers will be much more conservative in what they allow because the resources they have to respond to a situation are much more limited compared to a larger department. At that point, they are just doing their job the best they can with the resources they have at their disposal. 

And, for the people who say that "fire code is on their side", you are forgetting the most important code on the books; the AHJ has the FINAL say so in all matters. The written code is always up to their interpretation as they apply it in any given situation. Taking proactive steps to build a relationship with them, educate them, and notify them well in advance are your best tools to help your cause. But, their interpretation (no matter how unfounded it may appear to us) is final and not negotiable.

~Dave


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## bishopthomas (Apr 7, 2012)

DaveySimps said:


> They receive no training in the atmospheric effects we use in our industry, so I would never expect an AHJ to know the difference, no matter how obvious it appears to us.
> 
> Often times it not the effect they are ruling against, it is the environment it creates (obstruction of a clear view of exits and obstacles, concerns with venue staff being able to see the crowd for crowd control and liquor control compliance, etc.). Often time a poorly staffed fire department or a department that relies on all volunteers will be much more conservative in what they allow because the resources they have to respond to a situation are much more limited compared to a larger department. At that point, they are just doing their jobthe best they can with the resources they have at their disposal.



I don't expect any fire official (even the top dog fire marshall) to know about industry specific effects, any more than I would expect them to know how to change a lamp in a Source 4. But a fireman should at least know that smoke=fire. Does he think that his breath on a cold day is smoke as well? Better call in the ladder truck! Also, to completely disregard any opportunity to learn something new...

Also, regarding a "poorly staffed fire department," this was at a major university with hundreds of fire/police on duty at all times.


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## Pie4Weebl (Apr 7, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> I can now definitively answer the question as "YES." We just did a show in a gymnasium that we've worked dozens of times in the past (with haze) where the fire marshall said no "smoke." You would think a fire marshall of all people would understand the difference between haze and smoke, but not even a kindergarten level explanation could make him change his mind. The "club atmosphere" that we were there to create completely got destroyed minutes before the event was to start.



Bishop, I'm curious, when he told you this, did you just accept it right off the bat, or did you go tell the producer of the event and see if they might have a better time reasoning with the fire marshal? 

(If I was doing a rave in a gym, I'd be a touch upset too, if the AHJ told me no haze right before doors)


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## bishopthomas (Apr 7, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Bishop, I'm curious, when he told you this, did you just accept it right off the bat, or did you go tell the producer of the event and see if they might have a better time reasoning with the fire marshal?
> 
> (If I was doing a rave in a gym, I'd be a touch upset too, if the AHJ told me no haze right before doors)



I never spoke to the guy myself. The PM was the first to discuss it with him, followed by the dean (whose event it was) as well as a couple of other high ranking school faculty members. Eventually he said something about not being able to see the exits (which are well marked with code-meeting signs) to which we suggested bringing in more lighting to illuminate the doors. It was all about ego and falice swinging.


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## venuetech (Apr 7, 2012)

The real question would be: How can the entertainment industry educate the AHJ professionals across the country regarding atmospheric effects issues.


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## cfd701 (Apr 7, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> I don't expect any fire official (even the top dog fire marshall) to know about industry specific effects, any more than I would expect them to know how to change a lamp in a Source 4. But a fireman should at least know that smoke=fire. Does he think that his breath on a cold day is smoke as well? Better call in the ladder truck! Also, to completely disregard any opportunity to learn something new...
> 
> Also, regarding a "poorly staffed fire department," this was at a major university with hundreds of fire/police on duty at all times.



Learm something new? Why? They dont have to. There job is to keep the event safe. If they feel haze, smoke, pyro whatever poses a risk to anyone in the building then guess what? You loose. You cannot win fighting the FD. You will loose and they can shut you down. 
Ive been in places where haze/smoke fills an area and breaks the "beam" of the smoke alarm and sets it off. A solution to this was to disable the fire alarm and pay to have a firefighter on fire watch. Ill bet that would do it.
Also HUNDREDS of police and firefighters? I doubt that. Where is it? Ill bet at most there are like 10 firefighters and 10 cops on duty at any given time. 
Chris


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## shiben (Apr 7, 2012)

cfd701 said:


> Learm something new? Why? They dont have to. There job is to keep the event safe. If they feel haze, smoke, pyro whatever poses a risk to anyone in the building then guess what? You loose. You cannot win fighting the FD. You will loose and they can shut you down.
> Ive been in places where haze/smoke fills an area and breaks the "beam" of the smoke alarm and sets it off. A solution to this was to disable the fire alarm and pay to have a firefighter on fire watch. Ill bet that would do it.
> Also HUNDREDS of police and firefighters? I doubt that. Where is it? Ill bet at most there are like 10 firefighters and 10 cops on duty at any given time.
> Chris



They probably are also in a city, which has dozens of fire stations in it, each with multiple trucks worth of guys on duty as well, and realistically probably thousands of cops on duty at any given moment.


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## cfd701 (Apr 7, 2012)

shiben said:


> They probably are also in a city, which has dozens of fire stations in it, each with multiple trucks worth of guys on duty as well, and realistically probably thousands of cops on duty at any given moment.



Its just not possible that a University would have HUNDREDS of firefighters and cops on duty. 4 men per truck/engine so that would mean that in his immediate area at the University there are a minimum of 25 trucks/engines. Thats just to make 100. Not even HUNDREDS. New York City only has 11,000 firefighters and they are understaffed. Second only to Tokyo. This is a sore spot for me. These guys are doing there jobs. Ultimately they will win and shut you down. It also helps to not have an attitude with them when speaking to them. Goes a long way!


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## cfd701 (Apr 7, 2012)

WOW this got off topic I think. Im done...


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## josh88 (Apr 7, 2012)

cfd701 said:


> WOW this got off topic I think. Im done...




Seems to still be on topic to me. Ultimately it always comes down to as simple as YES they can always shut you down, sometimes they are right, sometimes we are right, but you still have to accept it. I think that sure maybe not all of them understand what fog or haze is exactly, but some do, and even the ones that don't ultimately have to make a life safety decision as to whether or not it's going to (in their opinion) hinder people getting out of a building if there is a fire.


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## cfd701 (Apr 7, 2012)

josh88 said:


> Seems to still be on topic to me. Ultimately it always comes down to as simple as YES they can always shut you down, sometimes they are right, sometimes we are right, but you still have to accept it. I think that sure maybe not all of them understand what fog or haze is exactly, but some do, and even the ones that don't ultimately have to make a life safety decision as to whether or not it's going to (in their opinion) hinder people getting out of a building if there is a fire.



Well said. Thanks


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## MNicolai (Apr 7, 2012)

Another factor is how the matter was presented to AHJ. If it was a simple "Can we do use haze or fog?", I could where they could jump to conclusions on what that means and what that effect looks like.

A lot of people hear the words "fog machine" and think of Halloween-style effects that are a heavy mass of fog, not so bad in someone's yard but in the confined space of a haunted house, fog effects overused can present actual life safety hazards.

On the other hand, if the question was presented as "We want to put a light/medium haze in the air, which would not be enough to interfere with illuminated exit signs but just enough to illuminate beams of light traveling through the air. Is that okay?" then I would expect AHJ to be on a page closer to the page I am on.

Best yet is a demonstration of the effect that would let AHJ see exactly what they're signing off on, an effect most AHJ's have not explicitly had demonstrated and explained to them.

It seems like an argument of petty semantics to some, but not to the person who's stamping their name and reputation on that your effects will go off without a hitch. Not only that but people like to lie and/or not tell the full truth to AHJ, so anyone in that position has to also take into account the possibility that anytime they're making a decision, they could be making it on false or incomplete information. The more transparent and explicit you can be about what it is you're asking them permission for, the better.

An argument of semantics it may be, but we're talking about the difference between the person representing AHJ feeling completely comfortable with what they're about to sign off on or feeling uneasy that what they're thinking about giving a green light could blow up in their faces (figuratively AND literally -- these are the same people whose duty it is to run into the fire if the effect doesn't go as planned).

A lot of people misunderstand just how complex it is for AHJ to stamp a seal of approval on someone else's work, even when the risks seem minimal. This is a tad hyperbolic to the fog/haze topic, but imagine if you're the fire marshal who signs off on something that turns into the next Station nightclub fire. Expect your career to be ruined. On top of that, you have to live with the someone's death on your conscience. Could be a total stranger, or it could be your three closest friends who were first responders.

There are actually some AHJ's who are on power trips, but I'll bet most of them who get accused of phallus-waving go to sleep haunted by calls they've responded to in the past and are at least a little terrified of the calls they may someday be on. With the kinds of things that firefighters see every day, don't be surprised if they're hesitant to give you permission to do something in a venue that at the spark of a match could be the largest fire any of them will ever respond to.


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## mstaylor (Apr 8, 2012)

I work with my AHJ when it comes to effects. I have asked about smoking onstage, he had no problem. We use fog,haze and other similar effects with no problem. Pyro requires permitting, local shooter and demos. If it is deemed safe then it is allowed, if it questionable, it is scrapped. Some effects require a fire watch, we don't disable duct detectors, we disable alerting capabilities. It alerts the fire panel and we handle accordingly. It has been an continuing education by us and the FMs to get on the same page. The FM also knows we will insist on certain parameters being met, whether it is effects or fire lanes. We play by the rules set by him and it makes him more likely to work with us if we need to do something out of the ordinary. 
On the other hand, I work in another city that they say no smoke, open flame, pyro, haze, nothing. No questions, no negotiations. We know that so we don't even try.


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## bishopthomas (Apr 8, 2012)

Wow, lots of assumptions going on about what I posted. Please keep in mind that I am not a high schooler looking to pick a fight with an officer of the community. Everyone who spoke to the fire marshall were adults who were very respectful of the official and his duties. As I mentioned, the production manager, university dean, building supervisor, and the second in command of student activities (who is very knowledgable in theatrical lighting/sound) were the ones to discuss this with him. We all understood where he was coming from, but the respect was not reciprocated. It was simply a matter of him having made a decision and not wanting to seem weak by changing his mind. It was ego and ignorance, along with fear of losing his job (I understand he's a new fire marshall, which would explain why we've never had any issues before) that compelled the decision, not rational thought or awareness of what we were trying to explain. I'm sorry if this strikes accord with you personally, but I doubt that it should as you seem like someone willing to learn new things and have discussions with people rather than merely being a bully. Trust me, that's what this was.

And as far as your doubt as to hundreds of public service officials... As well as being the largest university in the state, it is located in one of the largest cities in the state and is supported by municipal officials as well as university. Inside the room during the main part of the event (the only part that needed haze) I counted 4 EMS and 6 police officers. That was what I saw from my limited visibility position at front of house. It is easy to say that there are well over 100 public safety officials within 15 minutes of any specific point on campus at any time, especially during events. Maybe not 600 or 800, but even 200 would not be out of the question.

After all that, I'm really not sure why I'm having to refute every point I'm trying to make to you. I was merely telling my count of what happened because it relates to this thread. You can take the facts or not, really doesn't matter to me.


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## pianoman55 (Jul 27, 2012)

I've never heard of a Fire Marshal reacting like that to a Haze machine. Perhaps, if you get grief again, you could suggest posting a notice telling the audience that a hazer, or as he put it "smoke like effect" will be used. If not a sign, perhaps you could make an audio announcement before the show? 

Honestly though, never argue with the Fire Marshal. They'll just pull the authority card at the end of the day and either say "it is what it is" or they'll shut you down.


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