# Transparency Gobos and ETC S4 LED Lekos



## paulsbutiq (Oct 25, 2012)

Has anyone out there done any make your own gobos on transparencies and used them in the new ETC LED lekos? If so, how'd they turn out? Got a fleet of the S4 LEDs now and exploring our possibilities. Going to be doing a test-run today with some transparencies we got at Staples, just some text phrases inverted so they're on black background with the text to shine through printed out on a laser printer. Thinking that the black isn't going to be opaque enough and it's going to bleed through. Guessing that we're going to end up calling our friends at Apollo and having steels made anyway...


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## Kelite (Oct 25, 2012)

Our PrintScenic has a really black, black. Give it a try and let us know here at the forum how it worked for you-


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## icewolf08 (Oct 25, 2012)

paulsbutiq said:


> Has anyone out there done any make your own gobos on transparencies and used them in the new ETC LED lekos? If so, how'd they turn out? Got a fleet of the S4 LEDs now and exploring our possibilities. Going to be doing a test-run today with some transparencies we got at Staples, just some text phrases inverted so they're on black background with the text to shine through printed out on a laser printer. Thinking that the black isn't going to be opaque enough and it's going to bleed through. Guessing that we're going to end up calling our friends at Apollo and having steels made anyway...



Source 4 + Transparency = Molten Plastic in your fixture. The temperature at the gate of a source four will melt any transparency you can buy to put in the gobo slot. If you want to be able to print your own gobos I would suggest investing in a Rosco Image Pro unit. In my experience, it is the only unit that is successful at the print-your-own gobo. If this is something you plan to do often, then the investment will be worth it. Otherwise, custom steel templates will be much cleaner.

If you want to be able to just print on transparencies, the only fixture I know of that has a cool enough gate temperature is the Selecon Pacific. They are great fixtures, but they are about $50 more per unit than a source four (if not more).


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## techieman33 (Oct 25, 2012)

icewolf08 said:


> Source 4 + Transparency = Molten Plastic in your fixture. The temperature at the gate of a source four will melt any transparency you can buy to put in the gobo slot. If you want to be able to print your own gobos I would suggest investing in a Rosco Image Pro unit. In my experience, it is the only unit that is successful at the print-your-own gobo. If this is something you plan to do often, then the investment will be worth it. Otherwise, custom steel templates will be much cleaner.
> 
> If you want to be able to just print on transparencies, the only fixture I know of that has a cool enough gate temperature is the Selecon Pacific. They are great fixtures, but they are about $50 more per unit than a source four (if not more).



They have LED source 4's so gate temp shouldn't be an issue.


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## MPowers (Oct 25, 2012)

icewolf08 said:


> Source 4 + Transparency = Molten Plastic in your fixture. ..........



Hey Icewolf, re-read the OP post. He doesn't have S4 incandescent, he has S4 LED. You can pull a metal gobo out of the gate with your fingers. If you don't have an ETC dealer near you, I'll be glad to sell you one to experiment with.


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## icewolf08 (Oct 26, 2012)

Oh shhhh.... You expect me to READ everything I see on the internets? it was dark and my attention was more on the show I was running than the post I was reading. What is this newfangled LED you speak of.... Sorry


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## Kelite (Oct 26, 2012)

icewolf08 said:


> Oh shhhh.... You expect me to READ everything I see on the internets? it was dark and my attention was more on the show I was running than the post I was reading. What is this newfangled LED you speak of.... Sorry



I dunno Alex, this whole LED thing may or may not take off... XD


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## gafftaper (Oct 26, 2012)

I experimented with print your own transparencies and the Selecon. As Kelite pointed out, the problem is the black ink just isn't black enough and the other colors wash out a lot! You can do it but you won't be impressed. The good news is the Apollo Print Scenic Gobos are beautiful and a true black. They last 70-80 hours. That's impressive.The custom color gobos are around $90 and the stock gobos are around $15. (How am I doing on pricing Keith?) 

For the sake of fairness I should point out that Rosco now has a similar product called "Cool Ink Plastic Gobos". I saw it briefly at LDI but didn't take a serious look at it. As a result of how awesome the people at Apollo are, Rosco products have become less of a priority to me.


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## jglodeklights (Oct 26, 2012)

I wonder if printing from a photo quality inkjet printer will be better. Laser printers provide high acuity for text because they can't bleed, but their printing resolution is usually fairly low, either 300 or 600 DPI. Lots of space between the dots compared to even a cheap inkjet! Decent photo inkjets often have several shades of black and a grey and a tint of most colors they use. A few years ago they made leaps in acuity when they developed micropiezo nozzles and better control over the actual lay down of the ink.


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## gafftaper (Oct 26, 2012)

Maybe. I think the biggest problem is just that the ink layer isn't thick enough to block/filter the light. The Apollo color scenic gobos are clearly thick with ink. I don't think you can come anywhere close to that on a home printer.


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## Kelite (Oct 26, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> I experimented with print your own transparencies and the Selecon. As Kelite pointed out, the problem is the black ink just isn't black enough and the other colors wash out a lot! You can do it but you won't be impressed. The good news is the Apollo Print Scenic Gobos are beautiful and a true black. They last 70-80 hours. That's impressive.The custom color gobos are around $90 and the stock gobos are around *$15*. (How am I doing on pricing Keith?)



You're doing well remembering so much after a few days in Loss Vegas, Gafftaper!

I will say the MSRP for a _PrintScenic*_ is a little less at $13.25 but who's counting? 

These inexpensive color gobos have been so helpful when I take Spotlight* LED Profiles out to demo. Now the client can see their artwork designs projected in real time, allowing them to make Spotlight* fixture decisions on the spot.


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## JohnD (Oct 26, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> . As a result of how awesome the people at Apollo are, Rosco products have become less of a priority to me.


This is off topic, but Kelite sure knows how to work a room, and I think to some extent he is responsible for the success of Apollo. He is the perfect example of how a company rep should be a part of a forum, never pushy, never only selling product, there are some company reps who are shall I say arrogant, only here to sell, sell, sell.


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## jglodeklights (Oct 26, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Maybe. I think the biggest problem is just that the ink layer isn't thick enough to block/filter the light. The Apollo color scenic gobos are clearly thick with ink. I don't think you can come anywhere close to that on a home printer.



Would be interesting to see a documented test. Considering that transparencies are designed for the purpose of projection, their thickness shouldn't necessarily be the issue. Feel how thin R80 is. That they are really only surface dyed should be reflected in their lifespan. Getting the color balance and transmission correct could be more difficult issues to resolve as you are printing with pigments designed to reflect light, not filter it, regardless of what inkjet or laser printer you are using. Wonder if using a calibration device such as DisplayMate or X-Rite would be useful in achieving better results?


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## bdkdesigns (Oct 27, 2012)

JohnD said:


> This is off topic, but Kelite sure knows how to work a room, and I think to some extent he is responsible for the success of Apollo. He is the perfect example of how a company rep should be a part of a forum, never pushy, never only selling product, there are some company reps who are shall I say arrogant, only here to sell, sell, sell.



Exactly! I felt dirty the other day when I actually had to buy a sheet of Rosco gel. I've started using Apollo exclusively about a year ago now and haven't looked back. Sadly, I needed one extra color the other day and had to go to my "local" dealer because I wouldn't have reached that five sheet minimum order.


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## silicsound (Oct 28, 2012)

I got curious and tested the transmission on a piece of transparency on a home made colorimeter. The transparency was printed on a laser printer set to max contrast. The test source was a 5500k LED. The result was that the black had a 13.5% transmission of red, 11.7% transmission of green, 9.2% transmission of blue, and 11.2% transmission of the full spectrum.

The one thing I've noticed about transparencies is that their black is "grainy", meaning their black is not a smooth black and have little specks of clearness everywhere. However if you double up two sheets of transparencies then very little light leaks through.

I also tested a Apollo PrintScenic gobo I got at LDI, It's black had a transmission of less than .0008%. Fun fact, I tested a piece of cheap gaff tape it had a transmission of .006%.


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## kicknargel (Oct 28, 2012)

I'll be curious to hear the result if you do any testing. I suspect the opinions here are right for the text stuff you're trying to do. I have printed slides of photos on a inkjet to use in slide projectors. It wouldn't work on Broadway, but served well for the semi-pro show I was doing. And this was many generations of inkjet ago.


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## Kelite (Oct 30, 2012)

The transmission properties of the ink used within the patent pending _PrintScenic*_ gobos are to thank for this degree of absolute black. That's kinda funny to test a piece of gaffer tape for transmission properties though! 

Thank you for the kind words regarding our place as forum members. We're here to enhance the learning experience we all receive- right?!


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## paulsbutiq (Nov 1, 2012)

So i did some testing on my HP LaserJet1100, which is by no means the printer I would recommend for the job but seemed to have the best results out of what was used at my office. We're going to use these on the job, but sight unseen on the PrintScenics (which I tried to recommend just so I could move on to what I normally do which is definitely not graphic design or printing), these aren't going to hold a candle to the professionally done PrintScenics. in a pinch though, they'll work. There is definitely some light bleeding through on the black, but for the room we're doing this in, it'll get the job done. We added drop-in irises to help with the light bleeding through, but at the end of the day the desired result was achieved. Client wanted Dr. Seuss quotes in script displayed on the walls of the room and that's what they're getting. 

I think the next test run we'll be doing is going to involve colored logos on a clear background just to see how that turns out, will keep you posted...

fyi, a box of transparencies from staples is pretty expensive! $70 for a box of 50, using 3M's Multipurpose Transparency Films. In the long run, might not be a bad alternative to go to in a pinch to avoid rush charges/overnight shipping, and as long as you have a basic understanding of photoshop or some design program it wouldn't take too much time to get done...


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## MNicolai (Nov 1, 2012)

I suspect you can print more than one to a sheet though, so that $70 gets you a long way. Certainly a lot further than $70 worth of steel gobos, especially for custom patterns.


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