# OSHA



## shiben (Nov 19, 2009)

At what point would it be considered a good idea to file an OSHA complaint about a venue that you are working in temporarily? My college's shop was contracted to provide scenery for the local community college's production, and we were installing it today. There are so many problems that it is impossible to list all of them, but for starters, the rope locks are not secured well to the rail, they dont lock the rope, the pipe on the battens is not schedule 40, the electrical panels are blocked, and the shop has had so much dust collect such that there is a several foot pile behind the radial arm saw. The venue is almost certainly unsafe, and the TD there is certainly incompetent. At what point should I say "this is so bad that the government needs to step in"? Any renovations would almost certainly require thousands of dollars of investment, and thus the local CC is not really interested in fixing the problems, so going to them is out. I need some advice, and any you guys have would be appreciated.


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## Footer (Nov 19, 2009)

OSHA won't come in until something happens. I have never seen or heard of an OSHA inspection of a shop unless someone gets hurt. The only time I have seen an inspection done is after a person torch welding melted out his hoses and had fire shooting out the side of an acetylene tank. That got OSHA in there. 

OSHA does not have the knowledge to inspect theatre rigging. The fire marshal would be the ones concerned with the blocking of electrical boxes. You could call the fire marshal, but once again, I don't think you will see any results. All in all... get in, get out, and watch your back. 

I know it sucks, I know it should be be that way, but... its the way the world is. 

It has been said by some well known people in the entertainment industry... "We don't kill enough people to have OSHA pay attention to us". 

I would suggest that you write a letter to the dean of the school. That would not be a bad move.


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## seanandkate (Nov 19, 2009)

shiben said:


> At what point would it be considered a good idea to file an OSHA complaint about a venue that you are working in temporarily?



The point after which it is pointed out to the people in the position to change things, that there is imminent danger to life and they refuse to take action. If it's bad enough to get you thinking, "Should I do something?," it's probably bad enough that if something DID happen, you might have several long uncomfortable discussions with yourself that begin with, "If only I had..."


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## ruinexplorer (Nov 19, 2009)

Footer said:


> OSHA won't come in until something happens. I have never seen or heard of an OSHA inspection of a shop unless someone gets hurt.



Working in corporate theater, we do have inspections without an incident. Also, we could receive a fine if we are not in compliance. However, an employer may volutarily ask for an OSHA assessment where an inspector can evaluate the facility and practices and no fines will be given for non compliance. If a facility is not incompliance, they will be given a reasonable amount of time to fix serious violations. Many companies will not do this for fear that they will be inspected and not be able to come into compliance (it's worth the risk to them). 


> OSHA does not have the knowledge to inspect theatre rigging. The fire marshal would be the ones concerned with the blocking of electrical boxes. You could call the fire marshal, but once again, I don't think you will see any results. All in all... get in, get out, and watch your back.



Absolutely in agreement. So, when something goes wrong, they get creative since we fall somewhere between general industry and construction (GI is the standard for most inspections). Of course, OSHA only covers employees, volunteers are not.



> It has been said by some well known people in the entertainment industry... "We don't kill enough people to have OSHA pay attention to us".
> 
> I would suggest that you write a letter to the dean of the school. That would not be a bad move.



We don't want OSHA to pa close attention to us. That is why we try to set standards (including ANSI) through organizations like ESTA, USITT, and their sister organizations in other countries. I agree that you need to be careful and consider reworking your designs to avoid linesets that you deem unsafe. A letter to the school is in order. Maybe suggest them getting the services of Dr. Doom or Jay Glerum for a theater inspection. Also notify your employer that you are unhappy with the safety of the venue and that you would like to be provided a safe work environment.


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## jwl868 (Nov 20, 2009)

If the community college is publicly-owned, then US OSHA does not have jurisdiction. (I'm assuming that the community college is either county- or city-owned, but I don't know how things work in Michigan.) But, it appears that Michigan's OSH laws cover public employees, so in the long run, this would be handled by the state agency.

Joe


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## shiben (Nov 20, 2009)

In response to Joe, yes, MIOSHA has jurisdiction even though it is publicly owned. Just checked. In response to ruinexplorer, we have done that. My shop's TD was a union rigger for years, and chose the safest linesets that they had to implement the design. Today is the last day we have in there, so I am going to write a letter to the head of the school, recommending that they get a rigging inspection done. I believe this was brought up in another thread somewhere, that you can pay an ETCP rigger to come look at your space and itemize every problem, in order to must be fixed now to be aware of. that seems like the best course of action at this point.


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## mrb (Nov 26, 2009)

shiben said:


> that you can pay an ETCP rigger to come look at your space and itemize every problem, in order to must be fixed now to be aware of.



that seems to be a precarious position for the rigger to put himself in, unless in the business of performing these inspections, having a proper contract with indemnity clause, and carrying a LARGE professional liability / E&O insurance policy.


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## derekleffew (Nov 26, 2009)

Correct, mrb. Most ETCP-Certified technicians would decline such a proposition, but on the other hand would know whom to recommend.


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## mrb (Nov 26, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> Correct, mrb. Most ETCP-Certified technicians would decline such a proposition, but on the other hand would know whom to recommend.



the first scenario that popped into my mind was:
-Rigger inspects facility, gives clean bill of health and leaves.
-Next day a group uses the facility and the Directors brother 'who knows mountain climbing' flys a kid in a climbing harness. Kid pitches over, slides out of harness and is killed.
-Facility says "we dont know how this could have happened, we hired Joe Rigger just the other day to inspect our facility and he gave it a clean bill of health"
-Rigger ends up bankrupt from spending the next 5 years involved in lawsuits, and has to find another profession due to being known as the rigger who killed that kid.


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## museav (Nov 27, 2009)

A lot of it is in the language used. For example, someone giving an opinion is very different than someone approving it and you would have to be careful in using the right terminology and approach. And since there is no related license, about all that really can be offered is an opinion. You might also be careful to specifically identify that you are assessing only the physical installation and not the use or operation.

Of course nothing will prevent someone from suing, over the years I've been involved in multiple lawsuits where someone did what we had specifically recommended in writing that they not do only to then sue us because of the results. We eventually won them all but still had to deal with them and invest the time and effort to defend ourselves.


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## shiben (Dec 1, 2009)

Well, I wrote a letter to the dean who would be responsible for the theater. She replied that the space had been inspected by a rigger who had issued a list of problems to fix (there is a discussion about just this topic somewhere else, I just dont know where it is). However, the TD at the space said the guy didnt know what he was doing and ignored the diagnosis. Also, there was no budget to upgrade the battens to Sch. 40 pipe and to replace damaged equipment. I requested the list provided by the rigger, and all my concerns were on it. I sent another letter saying that I felt the rigger was justified, and that the problems on there were still issues. At this point, I have ended my involvement with the venue in question, and I feel I have done all I can at this point to prevent an accident. Thanks for all of your advice and comments.


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## mstaylor (Dec 1, 2009)

Footer said:


> OSHA won't come in until something happens. I have never seen or heard of an OSHA inspection of a shop unless someone gets hurt. The only time I have seen an inspection done is after a person torch welding melted out his hoses and had fire shooting out the side of an acetylene tank. That got OSHA in there.
> 
> OSHA does not have the knowledge to inspect theatre rigging. The fire marshal would be the ones concerned with the blocking of electrical boxes. You could call the fire marshal, but once again, I don't think you will see any results. All in all... get in, get out, and watch your back.
> 
> ...



OSHA will come in for three reasons that I know of. The first is an accident, the second is a complaint that there are unsafe practices, and the third is a visual alerting. The first I have never been the subject of. I have been involved with workplace accidents including a high steel rescue but nothing that drew the ire of OSHA. I have been the subject of the last two. I had a disgrundled employee that called OSHA unjustafiably, we were given a clean bill. The visual alerting is one of a couple of ways,one is them driving by and seeing a jobsite doing something illegal or at least suspected, I had this type on general construction, again no problem to me, no so much with a couple of other subs. The other visual is a picture in the paper. We were building a Mountain stage and the paper came by and took our picture working. Even though we were all belted he still fined us. He was an idiot.
The big thing for our business is to self regulate so OSHA stays out of it.


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## Esoteric (Dec 10, 2009)

Footer said:


> OSHA won't come in until something happens. I have never seen or heard of an OSHA inspection of a shop unless someone gets hurt. The only time I have seen an inspection done is after a person torch welding melted out his hoses and had fire shooting out the side of an acetylene tank. That got OSHA in there.
> 
> OSHA does not have the knowledge to inspect theatre rigging. The fire marshal would be the ones concerned with the blocking of electrical boxes. You could call the fire marshal, but once again, I don't think you will see any results. All in all... get in, get out, and watch your back.
> 
> ...



When I was at UT they invited OSHA to come inspect the facilities.

I am sure someone got fired over that.

Mike


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## jwl868 (Dec 10, 2009)

Assuming UT is University of Texas, it was a safe move: US OSHA has no authority over a public employer. And Texas has no state plan.

Joe


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## Footer (Dec 11, 2009)

I grew up in the St. Louis area on the Illinois side, next to two refineries, a brass mill, and two steel mills. One of the local theatres reported to OSHA to come out for an inspection. I can't remember why they called, but they did. It was nearly a month and a half after the call that the inspector showed up. 

If your in a area that does not have much going on, you might get visited quicker or more often. If your in a industrial pit like I grew up in, they have bigger fish to fry.


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