# Glad to find this site



## NCS (Feb 14, 2017)

Hello,
I am new to this site; I stumbled onto it through a search for college programs.
I am a junior in HS and have been involved in tech theatre for 3 years. I am the lighting director for the drama club and I am also a musician. I would love to combine my love of lighting and music and eventually become a lighting designer for concerts.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 14, 2017)

Welcome. A broad range of folks here. Students of many levels. Teachers, pros out there doing it, and even a lawyer who does it as a hobby. Teenagers (I don't think pre-trip??) To at least 65 - me - or probably some older.


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## Colin Bishop (Feb 14, 2017)

Welcome to the booth!

Similar story here, junior looking for college programs for technical theater. I'd look through the college demographics thread and message some people who went to colleges near you or are interested. Also ask where your director or lighting instructor person, see where they went and what they learned. Just asking can get you a long way, I asked a very large regional Theater for a tour and got a great exclusive tour, asked the lighting guy at my school for a tour of his college and all he did in theater, asked my youth pastor for a new lighting console and now work on that console every week.

Anyways welcome and use all resources available to you in your search. Let me know if you find anything cool.

Colin


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## Kelite (Feb 15, 2017)

Welcome to the ControlBooth NCS, glad you found us!

As a lighting guy by day and a musician by night (me too!), you'll find yourself in good company here.
The rich, diverse backgrounds of the folks who regularly post here, as well as those who step in for a cameo appearance now and then, offer a treasure trove of workable solutions and, just as important, cautious insight.

The only silly question is the one not asked!

Welcome-


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## TuckerD (Feb 15, 2017)

Hi @NCS

I too joined CB when I was in high school and considering a career in lighting. I'm going to graduate from college this year and fortunately I have found one! Admittedly I won't be working as a lighting designer, instead I have found myself a really enjoyable spot in research and development of lighting products. Control Booth was a major MAJOR help for me to get to where I am today. Like Kelite said, the only silly question is the one not asked! I'm looking forward to seeing you around!


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## NCS (Feb 20, 2017)

Colin Bishop said:


> Welcome to the booth!
> 
> Similar story here, junior looking for college programs for technical theater. I'd look through the college demographics thread and message some people who went to colleges near you or are interested. Also ask where your director or lighting instructor person, see where they went and what they learned. Just asking can get you a long way, I asked a very large regional Theater for a tour and got a great exclusive tour, asked the lighting guy at my school for a tour of his college and all he did in theater, asked my youth pastor for a new lighting console and now work on that console every week.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Colin. I am currently looking at the program at UoA (my home state). I am hearing positive things about it.


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 21, 2017)

Don't count out rival ASU. Many good opportunities there. While I wasn't a student of theater, that is where I got my start and am in contact with some of the amazing faculty that run the program now.


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## gafftaper (Feb 21, 2017)

Wow, you've really gotten the full welcome treatment. I always tell my students here at the high school, If there's ANYTHING else you think you would enjoy doing, go do that as a career and let tech theater be a hobby. There are many opportunities out there where you can volunteer and do tech (community theater, church, schools, etc..). Get yourself a nice high paying day job and then have fun doing tech on the weekend! It can be a wonderful life. Having a career in tech on the other hand is often difficult. There are MANY people around here on CB who are barely scraping together a living, no insurance, no retirement plan, out on the road for months at a time never seeing their family, or maybe they have a nice stable job but they work late 5 or 6 nights a week and have very few opportunities to see their children and spouse. It's not an easy life and you will NEVER get rich doing it. 

So I encourage students to read the following discussions several times and have an adult you really trust read them as well, then discuss them with that person:
Getting a Job in the Industry 

The FAQ Recommendations about college Education 

How important was your College Degree to your Career Path?


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## RonHebbard (Feb 21, 2017)

gafftaper said:


> Wow, you've really gotten the full welcome treatment. I always tell my students here at the high school, If there's ANYTHING else you think you would enjoy doing, go do that as a career and let tech theater be a hobby. There are many opportunities out there where you can volunteer and do tech (community theater, church, schools, etc..). Get yourself a nice high paying day job and then have fun doing tech on the weekend! It can be a wonderful life. Having a career in tech on the other hand is often difficult. There are MANY people around here on CB who are barely scraping together a living, no insurance, no retirement plan, out on the road for months at a time never seeing their family, or maybe they have a nice stable job but they work late 5 or 6 nights a week and have very few opportunities to see their children and spouse. It's not an easy life and you will NEVER get rich doing it.
> 
> So I encourage students to read the following discussions several times and have an adult you really trust read them as well, then discuss them with that person:
> Getting a Job in the Industry
> ...


Many people do tech theatre because they're internally driven / compelled rather than for any sensible reasons.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard. (Who knows whereof he speaks and has since the mid fifties.)


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 22, 2017)

Well, compared to acting, tech might seem like a good choice. But I agree, it's not a choice of careers based on economic interest.


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## gafftaper (Feb 23, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> Many people do tech theatre because they're internally driven / compelled rather than for any sensible reasons.




BillConnerFASTC said:


> Well, compared to acting, tech might seem like a good choice. But I agree, it's not a choice of careers based on economic interest.



Exactly. I try really hard not to discourage young technicians but to open their eyes and make it very clear that it is not an easy path. I want them to know that getting an expensive degree is not a golden ticket to making more money as it is with other careers. Finally, I stress that there are MANY ways you can enjoy tech theater as a hobby or part time gig for the rest of your life without it being your career. That way you can put food on the table, have a happy family life, and play lighting guy once in a while for kicks.


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## NCS (Apr 15, 2017)

Well, that is concerning but I don't see myself doing anything else except music composition. Toured both UoA and ASU-not sure my choice will be either one. I am assuming college choice matters due to the connections faculty have?


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## TuckerD (Apr 15, 2017)

That's funny. Just a few months ago you said you wanted to be a lighting designer. Life changes fast. 

One of my mentors early on in my college career told me that the biggest difference between schools is the inherent networking opportunities schools have, otherwise it doesn't really matter. With that said, even that difference can be surmounted with some extra effort. I go to a very small school with no inherent networking opportunities into the theatre industry but I've managed to make those connections with a little more effort on my own part. 

I would pick the school where you feel most connected to the faculty and other non-academic factors. You can make up the other differences with hard work, and hard work is necessary no matter where you go to school. As someone else said, going into entertainment is not an easy path.


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## NCS (Apr 15, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> That's funny. Just a few months ago you said you wanted to be a lighting designer. Life changes fast.
> 
> One of my mentors early on in my college career told me that the biggest difference between schools is the inherent networking opportunities schools have, otherwise it doesn't really matter. With that said, even that difference can be surmounted with some extra effort. I go to a very small school with no inherent networking opportunities into the theatre industry but I've managed to make those connections with a little more effort on my own part.
> 
> I would pick the school where you feel most connected to the faculty and other non-academic factors. You can make up the other differences with hard work, and hard work is necessary no matter where you go to school. As someone else said, going into entertainment is not an easy path.


 
Hmmm...I didn't say I changed my mind. Lighting Design is what I want. What I did say is that is all I see myself doing in lieu of lighting is. As mentioned previously, I am the lighting designer in HS and I'm also a musician - my preference is to combine both by doing concert lighting. Not sure where the change is?
Thanks for you input.


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 15, 2017)

NCS said:


> Well, that is concerning but I don't see myself doing anything else except music composition. Toured both UoA and ASU-not sure my choice will be either one. I am assuming college choice matters due to the connections faculty have?



What did you find lacking at those schools? Being able to identify what you are specifically looking for in a program will help you find your ideal school. Unfortunately, it sounds like you are looking for a program like Full Sail, which is not always the best first choice out of high school. Schools like that can be very expensive, and with a lack of real world experience, you can't always maximize the learning vs. cost. 

Connections you make while in college will directly help your success. It isn't just the faculty, but the opportunities you get working events and concerts. When you have the general knowledge from class, then you will need the access to places to apply that knowledge. It will likely not be a part of the school. The nice thing about college is that you have the opportunity to take risks, because you are paying for those risks with your tuition. 

So, make a list of exactly what you want to get out of your college experience. Look at job listings and see what employers require in degrees or applicable skills (you might have to cold call some to see what they want). Check and see what they pay and see if it will pay back any loans. Start hitting up local bands to see if they have a designer. If they do, see if you can work with them. If this is something you really want, you are going to need to work your ass off to achieve it.


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## NCS (Apr 15, 2017)

ruinexplorer said:


> What did you find lacking at those schools? Being able to identify what you are specifically looking for in a program will help you find your ideal school. Unfortunately, it sounds like you are looking for a program like Full Sail, which is not always the best first choice out of high school. Schools like that can be very expensive, and with a lack of real world experience, you can't always maximize the learning vs. cost.



I have to say I'm a bit concerned about the assumptions some make on this site. I never mentioned Full Sail nor would my tours of my state schools indicate a school like Full Sail. I am not interested in Full Sail at all and not sure how you made that assumption. But, thanks for the other feedback. This summer, I will be making a list of the schools that I feel will be the best for me and what I am looking for. My state schools are still in the running. 
I don't mind working hard.


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## NCS (Apr 15, 2017)

ruinexplorer said:


> Don't count out rival ASU. Many good opportunities there. While I wasn't a student of theater, that is where I got my start and am in contact with some of the amazing faculty that run the program now.


Ruinexplorer- I toured the School of Theatre, Film and Dance yesterday at ASU. They do have a lot of good things happening there and it seems like that school thinks "outside the box." Even though the campus itself didn't quite feel like a fit, I will not rule it out.


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## TuckerD (Apr 15, 2017)

My mistake NCS. I miss understood your post, try to understand that forum communications are not perfect and people make mistakes. We are just trying to offer you the best advice we can. Besides the first part of my reply was a light hearted joke, it was the following part that I actually meant for you to read and consider. I hope you didn't take it too seriously and ignore everything else. 

No one here would purposefully misguide you or purposefully misread something you write.


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 15, 2017)

NCS said:


> I have to say I'm a bit concerned about the assumptions some make on this site. I never mentioned Full Sail nor would my tours of my state schools indicate a school like Full Sail. I am not interested in Full Sail at all and not sure how you made that assumption. But, thanks for the other feedback. This summer, I will be making a list of the schools that I feel will be the best for me and what I am looking for. My state schools are still in the running.
> I don't mind working hard.



The assumption of Full Sail is that their program is touted for people who want to go and be things like concert lighting designers. I personally feel that they are a waste of money for most of their students while a great opportunity for a few of them. I based my suggestion on your previous statements. As @TuckerD pointed out, remember that forum communications are less than perfect as any written communication in a similar vein. We are here to offer advice, which you can accept or ask for clarification. 

I just did some workshops at Mesa Community College for the Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival and they may also be a good start, especially as you get your general education out of the way. They may not have the biggest facilities, but I think they might offer you a good start as well.


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## NCS (Apr 15, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> My mistake NCS. I miss understood your post, try to understand that forum communications are not perfect and people make mistakes. We are just trying to offer you the best advice we can. Besides the first part of my reply was a light hearted joke, it was the following part that I actually meant for you to read and consider. I hope you didn't take it too seriously and ignore everything else.
> 
> No one here would purposefully misguide you or purposefully misread something you write.



Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate it. I am reading the advice you all are giving. Sometimes it gets overwhelming and choosing a college is overwhelming as it is. I found a great list of schools that are tops in tech theatre and will comb through their curriculum and consider the tuition (yikes! and gulp!) of each of them plus my 3 state schools (GO AZ!).
I hope no one minds that I share this link to the 2016-2017 Top Ten BFA Theatre Design Tech Programs here:

http://www.onstageblog.com/columns/...sign-tech-programs-in-the-country-for-2016-17


> *The Top 10 BFA Theatre Design & Tech Programs in the Country for 2016-17*
> 10. Coastal Carolina University - Conway, SC
> 9. Helmerich School of Drama at Oklahoma University - Norman, OK
> 8. SUNY Purchase College - Purchase, NY
> ...


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## TuckerD (Apr 16, 2017)

Absolutely! I remember trying to pick a college and how stressful it can be. I ended up ignoring my acceptance packets until pretty late in the game and picked a small local college in Montana. Despite my small and unknown alma mater I haven't had very much trouble finding the work and internships I've wanted, in terms of people judging my college's reputation. My professional demeanor and communications are what have helped me get there. People say it's all about who you know, and while that isn't 100% true, it is definitely 100x more true than "all that matters is alma mater"

As long as you work very hard to get every thing you can, academically, out of a program then, from what I can tell, it doesn't mater to much where that program was. What will make the difference in your portfolio and resume is that you worked hard. Beyond that what matters is actually getting that portfolio in front of people.

There are some great resources for that, this website being one that has served me well. In addition there are national conferences and organisations like USITT that love helping students. Here is USITT's mentorship page. http://www.usitt.org/mentoring/

In short: how hard you work, academically and at networking, will mater much more than where your degree is from.

*not that this is the simple formula for supreme success. That doesn't exist, or at least I don't know it.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 16, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> In short: how hard you work, academically and at networking, will mater much more than where your degree is from.



Amen to that. I believe it has as much to do with what other students are around when you are there and what you get exposed to while there. I went to a small state school with no particular reputation for theatre, and was given a lot of opportunities that I doubt I could have had in a larger program. 

Consider the opportunities for experience at a school with no theatre major. Design and tech major shows as a sophomore.


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## NCS (Apr 16, 2017)

ruinexplorer said:


> The assumption of Full Sail is that their program is touted for people who want to go and be things like concert lighting designers. I personally feel that they are a waste of money for most of their students while a great opportunity for a few of them. I based my suggestion on your previous statements. As @TuckerD pointed out, remember that forum communications are less than perfect as any written communication in a similar vein. We are here to offer advice, which you can accept or ask for clarification.
> 
> I just did some workshops at Mesa Community College for the Kennedy Center American College Theater Festival and they may also be a good start, especially as you get your general education out of the way. They may not have the biggest facilities, but I think they might offer you a good start as well.



As a result of the advice on this site, I looked for internships yesterday and found some in Mesa and for the PHX Theatre.


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## NCS (Apr 16, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> Absolutely! I remember trying to pick a college and how stressful it can be. I ended up ignoring my acceptance packets until pretty late in the game and picked a small local college in Montana. Despite my small and unknown alma mater I haven't had very much trouble finding the work and internships I've wanted, in terms of people judging my college's reputation. My professional demeanor and communications are what have helped me get there. People say it's all about who you know, and while that isn't 100% true, it is definitely 100x more true than "all that matters is alma mater"
> 
> As long as you work very hard to get every thing you can, academically, out of a program then, from what I can tell, it doesn't mater to much where that program was. What will make the difference in your portfolio and resume is that you worked hard. Beyond that what matters is actually getting that portfolio in front of people.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the mentorship page link. I'll look into it.


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## TuckerD (Apr 16, 2017)

Awesome! Something like that would be a big benefit to your portfolio. Much more so than saying "I went to X great school"; 

Good luck and if it doesn't work out this year try, try again. There was one place I wanted to intern at that I applied to three years in a row before getting an interview.


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## RonHebbard (Apr 16, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> Awesome! Something like that would be a big benefit to your portfolio. Much more so than saying "I went to X great school";
> 
> Good luck and if it doesn't work out this year try, try again. There was one place I wanted to intern at that I applied to three years in a row before getting an interview.


Tucker; Where are you at in your career now in the sense of are you still at EtC; back in school or out working in your chosen field?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## TuckerD (Apr 16, 2017)

Thanks for asking Ron. So far I am pretty happy with my career. I'm graduating from college in a few weeks and am very happy with the job offer I've signed. After graduation I will be moving to Los Angeles to work with VER (http://ver.com) on their in house LED display panels. It's a technology that I am very excited about working on and I really liked the team when I met them in December.


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## TuckerD (Apr 17, 2017)

@BillConnerFASTC When you were in your early career what were some tricks that you found helped you make the right business connection or helped you advance? Is there anything you wish you had known sooner?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2017)

Good question. You may not like my answer. In undergraduate school - SUNY Potsdam - I somehow became enamored of the idea of going to the Yale School of Drama. That was all the connections I ever needed. It wasn't easy or cheap, and I immersed myself in it, working crew or work study or some assignment on about every Rep show while I was there. 

So, maybe the tip is get attached to a LORT theatre, have no ego, volunteer for every experience, don't be afraid to attempt things you have no business doing. 

And don't ever stop.


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## RonHebbard (Apr 17, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Good question. You may not like my answer. In undergraduate school - SUNY Potsdam - I somehow became enamored of the idea of going to the Yale School of Drama. That was all the connections I ever needed. It wasn't easy or cheap, and I immersed myself in it, working crew or work study or some assignment on about every Rep show while I was there.
> 
> So, maybe the tip is get attached to a LORT theatre, have no ego, volunteer for every experience, don't be afraid to attempt things you have no business doing.
> 
> And don't ever stop.


@BillConnerFASTC . While you were at Yale, did you meet Robert, Bob, Scales or Anne Trites MacArthur?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2017)

I know Bob Scales, not sure if from Yale or other wise. I only know the name Anne Trites MacArthur as working at YSD.


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## TuckerD (Apr 18, 2017)

Not quite the answer I was expecting, but still a very good answer. Thanks.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 18, 2017)

TuckerD said:


> Not quite the answer I was expecting, but still a very good answer. Thanks.


It was not an easy question. I'm curious as to what you were expecting.

Maybe I should have said - in my best Clint Eastwood impersonation - do you feel lucky? I feel I've been very lucky. Being in the right place at the right time, having great advisers and mentors, and things just turning out very well. I had a couple years in a college teaching setting that I probably would have skipped in retrospect, and where I did not learn much other than the about the typical town-gown division from the gown side, but overall even the less good times proved instructive. The older and more experienced I become the more I realize I don't know.


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## RonHebbard (Apr 18, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> I know Bob Scales, not sure if from Yale or other wise. I only know the name Anne Trites MacArthur as working at YSD.


Bob Scales departed the Stratford Festival as Production Manager mere days prior to my being hired as the IA Head Of Sound in the Festival Theater early in 1977, February or March possibly. Another person, Roger Gaskell, was at the Avon and Head of Sound at the Third Stage was a very temporary position which local 357 was fighting hard to create as a unionized position. Anne Trites, a young native of Stratford, had married becoming Anne Trites-MacArthur. Anne's recent marriage had vaporized shortly prior to her arrival at the Festival in an administrative position. It took about two seconds to realize Anne had a brain in her head, knew how to use it, was good people and a great fit in theatre. The non-IA electronics technician, Chris Wheeler and myself shared many a lunch break with Anne in the green room. Anne Trites-MacArthur quickly became Anne T-M soon pronounced as Auntie Em, similar to how @dvsDave became devious Dave.
Anne Trites; Good people. Our paths crossed again while I was working on an A/V & show control project for Tussauds in Vegas at the Italian themed place with the indoor and outdoor canal and gondoliers back in 1999.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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