# LED replacement for a Fluorescent Tube



## church (Oct 10, 2008)

I just received an LED replacement for a Fluorescant tube. I tried it in one of my fixtures I use for UV tubes and here is the surprise. The light output is good the colour temp of my sample was 6000K. It works with or without a ballast which makes it useful for retrofit in existing fixtures, just replace the tube and when the ballast eventually dies remove the ballast. We are now evaluating them as a replacement for the 10,000 tubes that we have in the facility that I work in for my day job. the 4ft tube only uises 18W, the tubes come in four colour temps. 

I also know one local company is evaluating them for use in their movie light boxes. Anyway the link is below.

GIELIGHT CO., LTD-


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## derekleffew (Oct 10, 2008)

I know I'm going to regret asking this but...cost per tube?


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## church (Oct 10, 2008)

we are told if you want to buy a sample of one the price is $18/tube and after that it depends on what quantity. We got our sample for free. The life is 50,000 hours and it uses 18W, the light output is 2000 lumens.

For us the big saving is labour for installation - it can run with the existing ballast and as the ballast fails we can eliminate the ballast. We were looking to replace the existing T12 tubes and ballasts with T8 tubes and ballasts and now we are also evaluating the LED tubes. Depends on the ROI.


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## gafftaper (Oct 10, 2008)

Wow that's a really interesting twist. It'll be interesting to see if the technology goes mainstream or not.


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## church (Oct 10, 2008)

A T8 tubes use 25W of power and produce 2050 lumens but we have to change ballasts as well as the T12 ballast doesn't work with a T8 tube. The scary thing is we have over a thousand fixtures each of which needs four tubes. The power saving ignoring the ballast loss is huge. Also the power factor of the LED tube is 0.93 which helps as well because as an industrial establishment our billing rate is determined by our worst case power factor in the month. We have power factor correction but the load is not constant during the day and swings around so anything that reduces this helps us out.


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## ledlite (Oct 11, 2008)

I am also testing LED replacement tubes for low level use in garage basement. I have a trial tube that claims 100,000 hours plus - now you have to hang around a long time to ensure this is valid. Anyway looks an easy decision - we are using 36 Watt T8's 4 ft - with ballast & starter watts are close to 50. Our trial tube is 15 W - so payback is probably between 2 & 3 years in high use situations. Tubes are expensive but our internal rate of return calulations are 55% per anum if life expectantcy gets close to that claimed. In any case electric savings are so significant these things probably only have to last another 12 months after payback to give a strong ROI. This is not without risks but the opportunity is so great it far outweighs any downside.


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## dannyn (Oct 12, 2008)

That is very cool.
I did not think that it would be possible beacuse of the way that florescent tubes start up.
Do you know if they are indoor/outdoor?


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## gafftaper (Oct 13, 2008)

ledlite said:


> I am also testing LED replacement tubes for low level use in garage basement. I have a trial tube that claims 100,000 hours plus - now you have to hang around a long time to ensure this is valid. Anyway looks an easy decision - we are using 36 Watt T8's 4 ft - with ballast & starter watts are close to 50. Our trial tube is 15 W - so payback is probably between 2 & 3 years in high use situations. Tubes are expensive but our internal rate of return calulations are 55% per anum if life expectantcy gets close to that claimed. In any case electric savings are so significant these things probably only have to last another 12 months after payback to give a strong ROI. This is not without risks but the opportunity is so great it far outweighs any downside.



Hey LEDlite that's some amazing information. It sounds like you work for a manufacturer of this or a similar product. If you are, it's great to have manufacturers reps around CB, but there are a few special rules for you to follow. Be sure to stop by the New Member's board to introduce yourself. It's your one chance to brag all about yourself and your company (within reason).


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## ledlite (Oct 13, 2008)

When you instal a LEd tube you can just remove the starter & many/most will operate with or without ballast. However the removal of the ballast will often represent a very significant portion of the savings.

We are using the tubes inside - but there are now increasing numbers of LED products for just about any purpose you can imagine, ...


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## church (Oct 13, 2008)

The savings are tremendous with the LED tubes, we worked out that we will reduce our power consumption by greater than 3MWh per day. This compares with the 2.4MWh per day savings for the T8 tubes. We haven't taken into account the ballast savings because we may just replace the tubes and then only remove ballasts as they fail. Regardless the ROI is lss than 3 years.


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## ledlite (Oct 14, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Hey LEDlite that's some amazing information. It sounds like you work for a manufacturer of this or a similar product. If you are, it's great to have manufacturers reps around CB, but there are a few special rules for you to follow. Be sure to stop by the New Member's board to introduce yourself. It's your one chance to brag all about yourself and your company (within reason).



No - I do not work for any one connected with LED lights - I manage property & interested in getting costs down - thats my interest.


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## TimMiller (Oct 15, 2008)

I know about a year ago when i was looking at getting LED tubes installed we ran into several problems. A. was the initial cost of around 100+ a tube. B. was that the medical center downtown was all retrofitted to LED tubes and a few weeks later they were all pulled out due to not being bright enough. From what i have seen from tubes so far they not nearly as bright as the ol flourescent (btw i am strongly anti CFL) but its only a matter of time before LEDs break through, and i was checking out a different product, so yours may very well be a better solution.


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## church (Oct 15, 2008)

agreed I have seen this as well. the tube I originally posted at the begining of this thread puts out 2000 lumens compared with the 2050 lumens of the T8 tube and cost me $18 as a sample price which compares favourably with the price of a T* tube and ballast


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## TimMiller (Oct 15, 2008)

Also the ones i was looking at you had to pull out the ballast, so that was going to be some additional cost. Also as far as i have seen you cannot buy a flourescent fixture without the ballast, it comes as a package deal because how many people need the fixture but not the ballast.


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## church (Oct 15, 2008)

yes the ability to use this tube with the ballast is a really nice feature that gives the option of just removing the ballast when it fails. This reduces the installation cost to just the low cost of someone changing the tube. When the fixtures don't work on 347V it can be done without an electrician. The electrician is only required to change a ballast or for any work involving 347V - at least in our location. I should have mentioned the tube works from 85V up to 265V without problems.


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## Smurphy (Oct 16, 2008)

I have seen these tubes of which you speak,I like them they are bright and nice. But I do have one problem with them when you mix like 1 or 2 with a whole room of standered florescent lights then you have this soft blue with the white of a regular, drives me crazy.


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## VeeDubTDI (Oct 16, 2008)

I'm wondering about the beam spread of these things. I'm sure they're great for high-ceiling applications, but what about standard or low ceilings, wall mounted fixtures, etc?

I'm going to have to buy a couple and try them out.


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## BillESC (Oct 17, 2008)

The technology is rolling along and gaining speed. How long do you think it will be before standard lay in fluorescent fixtures will be available without ballests? Not long I'll wager.

We're talking with a hospital at this time on a 10,000 tube replacement. With an ROI of less than 36 months it looks promissing.


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## cisgrig (Oct 17, 2008)

This looks interesting. Where do you get these tubes?


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## ledlite (Oct 18, 2008)

There are many companys manufacturing LED T8 replacement tubes in China - but sometimes it is hard to locate a local importer. Note T5 tubes remain competitive because much lower outlay helps ROI even though energy savings are much less than LED. Also try explaining you want to pay $85+ for an LED tube & many/most are not interested in ROI result! ;-)

A nice review can be found at LED Lighting which many might find useful.


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## gafftaper (Oct 18, 2008)

cisgrig said:


> This looks interesting. Where do you get these tubes?



Send BillESC a P.M. and I bet he can help you figure that out.


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## Van (Jan 9, 2012)

Yay ! Necroposting ! 
Hey folks, I have a problem. Designer for the next show has a T-grid ceiling with six 2x4 fluorescent fixtures in it. Director wants to be able to do artistic fades and as we all know, Fluoros simply won't wont do that. Then I got to thinking, " Hey Somebody has to make an LED replacement..." Sure enough I found this website T8 LED Fluorescent Tube, LED Tube, Fluorescent Replacement, LED Replacement Tube, EarthLED DirectLED FL Series, LED Fluorescent Tubes, F32T8 LED, U-Bent LED, U Tube LED 
I decided I should come back here and see if anyone has used these and I find this thread. Here's the deal though. Has anyone used an LED replacement tube like this in a theatrical setting ? Can they dim ? if so, at what level do they cut out? I'd love any input y'all have. At present the Director want to cut the fluoros and substitute recessed cans but there are no tiles in any of the grid. I'm sort of counting on the 2x4 light boxes to give the ceiling some rigidity, if they cut them I'm afraid there will be no way to hold the ceiling square. Thoughts ?


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## Les (Jan 9, 2012)

If all else fails, would it be possible to remove the troffer, add a 2'x4' aluminum angle stock frame, lay the prismatic fluoro lens inside and toplight it with a color corrected ellipsoidal?

Edit: I just saw that you stated that there are no tiles in the grid. This leads me to believe that any toplight would be clearly seen by the audience, thus not preferred. I don't know if there are any LED retrofits that can dim, but I'm still thinking along the lines of some type of incandescent light box that looks fluorescent.


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## derekleffew (Jan 9, 2012)

Les said:


> ... but I'm still thinking along the lines of some type of incandescent light box that looks fluorescent.


Yep, this is what I would do. Nice, dimmable A-lamps, probably with sheet(s) of L201 on the plastic diffuser.


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## mstaylor (Jan 9, 2012)

How much room is above the grid? Could you build something to house some type of dimmable instrument, have the structure sit in the grid and safety it up to whatever is above it?


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## ship (Jan 9, 2012)

Floros dim see Encapsulite as a company. More familar with their older T-12 lamps with magnetic ballasts but they switched to T-8 and probably electronic ballast by now I think in still dimmable. They are not using other than standard ballasts or lamps. See also Leviton and Lutron I think on a line of flourescent dimmers and or fixtures designed for dimming. Most flourescent fixtures can be dimmed - got to start them up of course such as with a neon tube also dimmable though back in those days it was analogue Cypress Creek dimers doing so.

Electronic ballasts might not dim as well with a Sensor rack but for a show that's a R&D thing amongst brands. Could become an electronic ballast with electronic dimmer thing getting in the way in how much one can dim.

Last McCartney tour I did some R&D as to which brand of T-8 dual tube 48" fixture would best work with a sensor rack in both dimming and if one watches the video's - turning on and off constantly. Cleared out every Menards store in the Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconson area for all of their fixtures and had to ship in more. Forget exact number but - like around 480 dual tube fixtures or more required = obviously within a week as normal. Menards stopped selling that brand since which causes problems in replacement ballasts for that brand for further legs of the tour. But again, it's the R&D in finding the one that works best within a sampling. Yea... the tour killed off a lot of lamps and ballasts in doing so but it was spectacular and imagine for people in my department going to the four winds in pre-plotting out every Menards and Home Depot location in our area within a day's travel so as to start the last minute project. (The Home Depot version was second best and only got decided on not good after most of us left.) I got five, I got 12.... became a constant cell phone call to home base competition in some of us crossing over our literally thumb tack location zones on the map as drawn out in getting there before the next person. Literally have a map with zones drawn on it for the four winds with thumb tack holes as to each Menards location.

Dimmable - yes but have to R&D it.


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## ship (Jan 9, 2012)

On the LED tubes. 

Front office had at one point play tested one, I also am using one from another source. Cost per lamp I have serious problems with as advertised. The one I bought was like $48.00 and I don't think dimmable as comperable to the ones the front office guys evaluated. Color temperature was and remains good almost a year later as with luminous output. One thing I question is CRI (Color Rendering Index). Don't know it for any tested or in use - not bad light for shop table work light, but in a huge building this will become a large factor.

For those of us that grew up in the 60's thru 80's, remember how sickly we all looked in school, would hate to see a cheaper LED light bring us back to that CRI. (LED's have taken on a more scientific scale that I forget the name to but often they still list their own reference on the CRI scale.) If at this point for a flourescent lamp, I wouldn't accept anything under say a 90 for CRI, why would I regress?

LED Flouro lamps also have a limited beam angle - it's a line of them not the entire globe making light. Say 120 degree. Often fine if high bay for lighting or if properly spaced, but if expecting 360 degrees of light and such lamps were spaced properly for that say even 180 degrees of useful light out of them... hope it works as otherwise it won't work unless you add more fixtures. 

Color temperature is easy to trick - I use 50K lamps in my own shop and even garage. Like it more than 65K. Higher in color temperature isn't more light - it's just brighter. If comparing a higher color temperature LED source to one of a lower color temperature flourescent source - especially if old... not really a good way to compare.

LED flourescents can work and in the long run are more cost effective but for the above... I would question a bit about their use and usefulness.


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