# Followspot?/Building your own?



## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 20, 2009)

Hello everyone, 

Well, there has been a little commotion about follow spots, which made me realize, we don't even have one xD

I was browsing around, knowing that we wouldn't get one for a long time because they are expensive, and we have better things to worry about, but then I saw the _* Times Square 600S, *_ And it is only about $550, comes with lamp and non-wheel stand. It looks pretty good and somewhat in our budget, although we have no budget for one anyways. I understand that its Foot Candles is going to be low, but we would use it mainly for dark play scenes, or dance recitals, when there are no other lights on at all. Its throw is about 70' which sounds about right for our facility.

It has no color changer, but I can always throw a scroller on it or grab a gel if we want a color.

Before everyone says "You wouldnt see it!" or something, please understand that it will be intentionally used only for dark scenes, and mostly dance recitals when there is only one performer on stage.

Anyone use this spot before?


And then we could just make our own, But i am just wondering if this spot is worth it.

Cost of building our own would be actually very cheap.


Anyone have any "recipes" for building a followspot?
I jsut though of this list of things I would need-

A spotlight, I can poke around storage to see if we have and extra ellipsodial we use for the FOH spots, if not, they arent expensive anyways.

A stand, which I can let the school use, well, its only me using anyways, so, not to worried. (I have a stand that I own, just an alluminum, quit heavy stand with a screw on top desighned to use a crossbar, thus making a T-Bar, but can be used for anything.)

A wing nut. Not sure if its in the budget or not p/)

Some kind of converter so I can make an on-off switch and make the power cord into a standard two prong plug.

And gels for colors.

Anything else I would need, tips on making one?


Im thinking building one is more practical for what we would use it for, right?​


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## kiwitechgirl (Sep 20, 2009)

It's very common practice to convert a regular profile spot into a followspot - as you say, all you really need is a stand and a spigot (so that the lantern can sit on the stand properly). The one thing you've not thought of, which is pretty much imperative, is an iris so you can change the size of the spot. Be warned, irises are not cheap, but a followspot without one is fairly useless. If you're using a regular tungsten halogen lamp (rather than a discharge lamp, which if it's a regular profile spot you will be), then I'd suggest getting a single-unit dimmer so that you can vary the brightness. I have no idea who makes single-unit dimmers in the USA, given that I'm in New Zealand, but over here we use Theatrelight's Singlefade unit - I'm sure you can find something similar.

It is worth noting that followspots aren't a critical piece of kit - we barely ever use them in our space, but if you have the bits kicking around to make one then you'll probably find it quite useful.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 20, 2009)

Thanks for the info 

As for an Iris, Our spotlights have them built in, But I don't think it will be to useful when used constantly.

Also, would this be a safety hazard? I was reading the box for a spot lamp and it said that the lamp gets to about 800 degrees within seconds, so not even mentioning melting something if it is put in front of it, will the outside of the unit get extremely hot? 

Yeah, I am not imagining using it to much, but it would be useful in the occasional spots where the person using the facility asks if we have something to follow someone : )


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## Les (Sep 20, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> As for an Iris, Our spotlights have them built in, But I don't think it will be to useful when used constantly.




I'm not sure what you mean by this, but either way you will want irises. What if the ellipsoidal throws a 10' diameter pool of light onto the stage? Short of throwing in an aperture reducer, you will need an iris which is much more venerable. 

You don't mention what ellipsoidals you currently have in use. If they are Source Fours, you're in luck. They make kits for them which do this very job. Ever heard the term Source Four on a Stick? If Source Fours are what you have, I have seen drop-in iris kits come up on ebay for around $60-80 each. Mind you, your school won't just go off and buy something on ebay, but who says your theatre department can't have a little fundraiser to make some cash and use it as you please? That's one of the biggest pitfalls of high school theatre these days - complaining about little or no funding from the school yet not realizing the money that can be made in the school by holding dances, silent auctions, garage sales, etc.

Back on topic. Heat will be a very real problem, yes. Ellipsoidals are designed to dissipate heat, but not to the point where they will be comfortable to touch. Any ellipsoidal fixture that has been on for more than a couple of minutes will be perfectly willing and capable of giving the user 2nd-3rd degree burns. I seriously recommend that if you are going to convert Source Fours, go ahead and spring for the handle that is designed to be mounted to it. At the very least you could use the plastic handle on the back (750's only), but the real handle will be much better. There is also a specially designed yoke that balances the unit better. 

If other than S-IV, like say a 360Q, you will have some work to do. I can't think of any effective way of mounting a handle to a 360Q, at least not one that will be safe and not end it's potential future life of becoming a dedicated ellipsoidal again. That's the main thing, you don't want to modify anything so that it won't be safe or can no longer be used for its intended purpose. 360Q's have available what's called a "speed cap" which adds a rear handle much like that of a Source Four. You might look into that, I think they're only around $60 on Production Advantage, and you get a whole new socket assembly and better bench focusing ability.

If you have 1kl's, you have some options here too. The biggest issue will be balancing the unit to not be front heavy (the yoke is way towards the back of the unit) but they do have these nice metal handles that could double as followspot handles. 

I believe that any ellipsoidal can be used as a followspot in a pinch, but user friendliness (balancing, heat, controllability) will be major factors. You need an iris and you need at least one handle (location depends on how the fixture is balanced). A dimmer is preferred, but not one of those plastic hardware store ones. You will need something much better, perhaps a stand alone unit such as a variac. 


Oh, you could also just cut a circular hole in some black construction paper, throw it on an overhead projector, put the overhead on some type of swivel stand and there you go. Clumsy and dim yet plentiful.

Regardless of which way you go, if you plan on using an ellipdoidal as a followspot, require the operators to wear gloves, long sleeves and tie back long hair (if applicable). 

Hope this helps!


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## derekleffew (Sep 20, 2009)

City Theatrical manufactures a number of accessories to transform the ubiquitous ETC SourceFour ERS into a followspot. Fixtures modified in this way are commonly called "SourceFour on a stick." Many accessories will also work with fixtures from Altman, Strand, Colortran, and others.

City Theatrical Training Video - Followspot Accessories



It's likely that any/all of them would be preferable to the Times Square 601S.


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## photoatdv (Sep 20, 2009)

Or if you aren't going to put a handle on it use everything he said plus welding gloves ;-)...


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## shiben (Sep 21, 2009)

I would advise to put something like the city theatrical handle on there, having camped out for some event or the other on a S4 750 with gloves on. 'Twas little fun, and the smoothness of the control was kind of a pain... However, the total cost comes out to something around 800 bucks, but you can get some cool gadgets to go with them too, such as a boomerang! I think thats just cool by itself!


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks everyone, especially Les for all the ideas 

I know we don't have Source 4s, and sadly, I don't even know the name of our ellipsoidal. I think they are just generic. My theatre manual and all the documentation just says "Colortran Ellipsoidal". 
They look like the Colortran Leo, but not with the handle on the back. And they could possibly be these-

Ellipsoidals 5/50 > Ellipsoidals > Entertainment Fixtures > Lighting Management Systems > All Leviton Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products

But ours have gel frames installed and are painted darker.

So basically they are just generic ones. 

Don't some ellipsoidal look, I don't know, scary in a way? Intimidating? 

Anyways,
front heaviness would be a problem as most ellipsoidal bracket is more in the rear, id have to just try it out to see how hard it would be to control.

I do know ours like the one i linked to, have shutters. So we may be in luck for an iris, if they dont do what we want them to do though, then obviusly ould need an iris.

As for heat, I was reading the features for the one I linked to which i do beleive we have, it seems it is very insulated. But I dont really know because, I havnt been around the lights when they were on before : P 
I was thinking of getting a fire blanket, and cutting it up and somehow securing it to the light, so it somehow covored the housing but not handles, etc. Or some other fireproof meterial. Would that be good?

And naturaly caution signs and operator needing to where gloves.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

Sorry, I just realized the shutters, well, aren't shutters. They are pattern holders.

But Colortran does offer an iris kit : D And we probably even have some somewhere I just overlooked.


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## fredthe (Sep 21, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> I was thinking of getting a fire blanket, and cutting it up and somehow securing it to the light, so it somehow covored the housing but not handles, etc. Or some other fireproof meterial. Would that be good?


This would be a *very bad* idea. You'd be insulating the fixture, which might keep the outside cooler, but it would also keep the heat inside the unit which could easily lead to damage, or a fire.

Stick with a handle, and proper protection for the operator.

-Fred


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## Les (Sep 21, 2009)

Sounds like you have Colortran 5/50 ellipsoidals which are actually quite serviceable fixtures. They are painted black and have the gel frame holders that you describe. the picture you link to seems like it may be a picture of an older model.

The 5/50 series have four framing shutters, just like any other ellipsoidal. They are likely not pattern holders, as you will usually only need one, which slides into the top of the unit. Pattern holders are also not "integral" to the fixture, meaning they are not actually part of the unit - only an accessory like as a gel frame. 

The fire blanket idea sounds innovative yet dangerous. Please don't cover up any part of the instrument with any material. Though it is a fire blanket, you will have such problems like exploding lamps, electrical shorts due to overheating, burned up metal parts such as the aforementioned framing shutters, cracked lenses - basically nothing good. The fixture would not be able to dissipate heat like it needs to. 

Wanna know how hot an ellipsoidal gets? Stick your hand on a car engine after it's been running a while. Kinda like that. (Please don't actually do that )

Here's an example - An ellipsoidal can easily burn a hole in soft goods when placed too close - just by it's beam of light. They can turn gobos red hot. Anything plastic or rubber that touches the rear lamp housing can and will melt. Don't turn an ellipsoidal on when it is sitting on the carpet lens-down. You will melt your carpet. (No that has never happened to me, but I have heard a few embarrassing stories).


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay, Thanks 

Do real follow spots also get very hot? I'm just thinking the school wouldn't like the idea of melting something if used intentionally or what not. But if real ones do the same then should be fine.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

Thanks Les : )

Yeah, fire blanket idea is out the window : P 

Well I guess we will just have to be careful.


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## Les (Sep 21, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Okay, Thanks
> 
> Do real follow spots also get very hot? I'm just thinking the school wouldn't like the idea of melting something if used intentionally or what not. But if real ones do the same then should be fine.



Some do and some don't. Usually that depends on the size, age, price... All that stuff. In general, followspots don't get hot enough to seriously injure or maim the operator, but they can get pretty warm in certain areas. Keep in mind though, that this is because a followspot has much more volume than an ellipsoidal, meaning it has more airspace inside. Add to this the fact that most - if not all - have forced air cooling (one or more internal fans).


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay. Maybe I will talk to my engineering friend and he can maybe remove the housing of the light and build a custom one that is larger and maybe even equipped with a cooling system.

Thanks for all the reply's : )


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## photoatdv (Sep 21, 2009)

Okay... I don't think trying to build a bigger housing is really the way to go... sorry.

There are a lot of complex optics in the light. Basically you know how they should (okay-- it rarely happens in schools) be bench focused? That makes tiny adjustments to the configuration between the lamp, reflector and lens... which makes a huge difference. Imagine how far off it would be if you or your friend was to try to reassemble the optical components in new housing? Also changing the housing could EASILY result in poor light quality, a FIRE HAZARD, or a SAFETY HAZARD (from lamp explosion, electrical shock, ect).

I know how much you want to do this-- but trust me, I've had these kind of ideas, they usually aren't a good idea. However-- If you REALLY want to try it, just make sure you find someone qualified to deal with the safety aspects and a light nobody really cares about... not that I'm advocating it.


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## Les (Sep 21, 2009)

..To follow that up - get a light on ebay to tear apart. Schools don't take too kindly to 'destruction to property'  .

Search ebay for: Leko, Ellipsoidal, Stage Light, etc... You could probably get a decent Altman 6x for about $35. Actually I did just a few weeks ago.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 21, 2009)

The new housing was just an idea, our spots entire housing is removable to replace the lamp.
Anyways, most likely wouldn't do it anyways.

I probably wont be doing much of anything to the light itself except mounting a bracket to the bottom to swivel and tilt easier. For wiring, I would just need a converter from Stage Pin, to whatever plugs into a single unit dimmer.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 22, 2009)

The problem with the Colortran/berkley/ 5/50 or older series is that there is NO slot for an iris, so you only have the gobo slot

I have a bunch of these, they do get pretty hot

If you wanted to be adventurous you COULD cut a hole in the lamp section and add a fan. I have some older L&E MiniFollow spots, and that they did is to have a raised plate in the lamp section, then have a fan in an attached box so that the light does not escape but the air flow can work. It does actually work pretty well. They have an Options slot and a manual dowser, there are not shutters. If you were good with sheet metal and had a fixture that you could "destroy" you could work something up. There was a version of the 5/50 that was a zoom 15-35 that would probably work well.
I would definitely uyse a GLA lamp instead of an FEL in it for this

At the end of the day, unless you really want to take on a project, you are probably just as well off buying an off the shelf spot.

Sharyn


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## Kelite (Sep 22, 2009)

Les said:


> Don't turn an ellipsoidal on when it is sitting on the carpet lens-down. You will melt your carpet. (No that has never happened to me, but I have heard a few embarrassing stories).





Uh, well... I guess I'll share mine. 
I made the drive to Troy Michigan years ago to demo Apollo's aluminum gobos for a certain large retailer preparing a Blue Light Marketing Blitz. I had a little trouble holding the ERS in hand while trying to plug into the wall outlet so I _*briefly*_ placed the unit lens-down on the conference room carpet...

The toasty carpet smell lingered long after I left my mark on the company.  Well, the company's floor at least...


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 22, 2009)

Hello~

Well I think I have finalized what we will eventually do.

Use one of our extra spots, remove the bracket, and buy a different kind that will mount to the bottom of the light and attach to the other piece that is attached to the stand, and it will provide a safer, and more easier ability to swivel and tilt. Once that is good, then I will work with an Engineering head and design a variety of different size "Irisis'" That will fit into the gel holder, as our spots don't have iris slots like SHARYNF said. After that we will install a fan or two, and then cut out three sides of a square then bend the flap in, this will give more ventelation. 
Also make a handle for it.

: )


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## fredthe (Sep 22, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Once that is good, then I will work with an Engineering head and design a variety of different size "Irisis'" That will fit into the gel holder, as our spots don't have iris slots like SHARYNF said.


Unfortunatly, the main thing that will happen by putting an "iris" in the gel holder is the light will get dimmer... it won't give you what you are looking for. You'd be better off making fixed-size "irisis" do go in the pattern holder.

-Fred


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 22, 2009)

Oh, Yeah, I suppose making them to go into the pattern holder would be better.

Thanks


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## kiwitechgirl (Sep 23, 2009)

You shouldn't have to remove the bracket and buy a new one - all you should need to do is take the C-clamp (or whatever you hang the light by) off the yoke and bolt a spigot to it instead. Most stands will take a spigot without needing any alteration; loosen off the yoke (bracket) a bit and your pan and tilt will be easy.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 23, 2009)

This is why I was suggesting that someone like Ship or ?? make up a diagram and info on that actual light path/focus points etc. There is LOTS of confusion was to exactly where what focus point exists. Definitely an iris will NOT work in the gel slot as a beam shaping device

what is interesting (based on my experience with the multiplexer) is just how small the image is at the gel slot point. City Theatrical makes a mirrored tube that slips into the gel slot, and allows you to take the gobo image and prism it up to about 9 copies if I recall allowing for a much more dispersed pattern over a much larger area for a given distance. what is interesting is that the mirror tube is only a few inches in diameter vs the 6 inch lens
Sharyn


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 23, 2009)

Kiwi,
Do you think a spigot will keep the light secure enough? As the bracket/yoke is fairly far to the rear of the fixture? I am just worried it will be too front heavy using just the yoke with a spigot.




Shary, 

I said in a post that I realized that the gel iris idea would not work, so I will make or buy some patterns that can go into the pattern holder with various size holes in them which, since how the patterns work should do a fine job making a smaller beam of light.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 23, 2009)

The drop in Iris for the Source 4 shows up on Ebay pretty often for about 80-90 dollars or so, and with some creative cutting and sheetmetal work it could be fit into a 5/50 I'd just place it where the GOBO slot is

Sharyn


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## church (Sep 23, 2009)

The focus point on an ellipsoidal is not hard to find - there are two. One is where the gobo goes and the other is where the centre of the filament is located. To illustrate take sixteen inches of string and tie it in a loop. Get a piece of corrugated cardboard and stick two push pins into it about six inches apart. Loop the string around the push pins and then take a pencil and hold it vertically with the point onto the card and move it away from the pins until the string is lightly tensioned. then move the pencil around the push pins keeping it tensioned against the string and you will draw an ellipse. the push pins are located at the the two focii.

If you draw a line from one of the focii to the ellipse - imagine that this is a ray of light- then draw a tangent to the ellipse where this line hits the ellipse you can measure the angle. The ellipse is your reflector and thereflection from the reflector is at the same angle on the opposite side of the perpedicular to the tangent. Except for light on the same axis as the focii two reflections from the ellipse are required fo light that moves backwards to the reflector to pass through the second focii. For light that moves forward only one reflection is required. If you try this you will notice why the GOBO imag appears upside down and the shutters are used opposite to what you may think. 

this also illustrates why the filament affects the amount and quality of light, why the reflector shape and coatings are so important.

The design of modern fixtures is done using an optical design software package called CODE V - also used for designing very fancy telescopes and optical instrument including space telescopes. 

It is more complicated to describe this than it is to try.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 23, 2009)

Church, 

Thanks for explaining ^_^


Shary, 
Okay, well before I spend $100 I will try to see if the gobo iris idea will work ^_^ Thanks though.


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## kiwitechgirl (Sep 24, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Kiwi,
> Do you think a spigot will keep the light secure enough? As the bracket/yoke is fairly far to the rear of the fixture? I am just worried it will be too front heavy using just the yoke with a spigot.



Can you hang the lamp horizontally on a lighting bar (yoke up) and lock it off reasonably securely without it dropping, or do you have to do it up with a spanner to stop it dropping?! If the lock-off works pretty easily, you're fine. Followspots tend to be a bit front-end heavy anyway, which usually helps you considering you're generally higher than the "target" when you're spotting them - all the spots I've used will drop nose-down if you let them go with the yoke unlocked. Occasionally I've had to hang a sandbag on the back of a spot because it was seriously nose-heavy, but that wasn't a regular profile converted to a followspot.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 24, 2009)

MillburyAuditorium said:


> Church,
> 
> Thanks for explaining ^_^
> 
> ...



If you know the size you want and it is fixed during the event that the gobo will probably work fine, but if you need to change out, you are going to run into the issue of what to do with the red hot (literally on occasion) gobo, 
When all is said and done outside of a interesting exercise you probably will be better off looking on ebay or craigs list or ?? to find a used one. They do seem to show up sort of in waves

Sharyn


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 24, 2009)

kiwitechgirl said:


> Can you hang the lamp horizontally on a lighting bar (yoke up) and lock it off reasonably securely without it dropping, or do you have to do it up with a spanner to stop it dropping?! If the lock-off works pretty easily, you're fine. Followspots tend to be a bit front-end heavy anyway, which usually helps you considering you're generally higher than the "target" when you're spotting them - all the spots I've used will drop nose-down if you let them go with the yoke unlocked. Occasionally I've had to hang a sandbag on the back of a spot because it was seriously nose-heavy, but that wasn't a regular profile converted to a followspot.


Oh, haha, Guess I didn't think of that  Should be fine then.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 24, 2009)

SHARYNF said:


> If you know the size you want and it is fixed during the event that the gobo will probably work fine, but if you need to change out, you are going to run into the issue of what to do with the red hot (literally on occasion) gobo,
> When all is said and done outside of a interesting exercise you probably will be better off looking on ebay or craigs list or ?? to find a used one. They do seem to show up sort of in waves
> 
> Sharyn



Eventually we will get a real Iris, but since we have more pressing things to take care of, a few gobos will do fine. We wouldn't really switch out anyways, its main purpose will be for dance shows, which will be following one person.
And if we do need different sizes and are only using gobos, maybe putting a fire blanket over a little table?


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## photoatdv (Sep 25, 2009)

Sturdy table with a metal baking tray/pan on a what-do-you-call-it--- the things you sit hot pots on. Just make sure it's stable and won't fall. And whomever is changing them should be wearing think gloves, long sleeves, long pants, and closed toed shoes. Not easily combustible/ meltable fabric is always a plus too.


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## kiwitechgirl (Sep 25, 2009)

The person changing gobos should also have a pair of pliers to remove the red hot gobo holder from the lantern....


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## photoatdv (Sep 25, 2009)

Good catch Kiwitech. I forgot that one... Pliers are helpful... they also help a ton if you're like my old school where we were too cheap to buy gobo holders for all the ones we wanted to use... I was making the gobos myself anyways so I just made them a bit big and used pliers to insert/remove (not with it hot though). Funnyest part was when I first did that I found out it had been our holders smoking the whole time... not my gobos... wish I'd learned that earlier.


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## shiben (Sep 25, 2009)

Millbury: you probably shouldnt need a fire blanket, and using one might make nasty smells. Just take a baking sheet like you might use to make cookies on, and use that as a receptacle for your gobos. Also, if you have a bunch of frames (we actually have about half as many as we do ERSs, and we dont usually use all of them), just use multiple pattern frames. Having never re-goboed after very long use, the plastic handles on ours mean that my gloves are usually all thats needed to remove them. And you should probably wear gloves anyhow, I always do, just to keep my hands from feeling burnt after a show. Although I have not actually run a spot recently


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## MillburyAuditorium (Sep 25, 2009)

Shiben,
Good idea xD I guess I think a bit to far into things. Multiple holders would be best, and quicker.


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