# Concert Lighting



## propmonkey (Sep 15, 2005)

I'm looking for a good guide that is online that gives good examples and techniques for concert lighting. preferably something as in depth as http://www.mts.net/~william5/sld.htm but for concert lighting.


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## ship (Sep 16, 2005)

Concert Sound and Lighting Systems: by John Vasey; Focal Press ISBN: 0240803647; 2nd EDition ISBN: 0-240-80192-X
“Concert Sound and Lighting provides a comprehensive coverage of equipment and setup procedures for touring concert systems. This new edition will cover the latest equipment now available and will discuss other venues where these skills and technologies are being used.” 

“Divided evenly between sound and lighting systems, each section concludes with an easy-to follow discussion of the setup procedures for a typical concert. Nearly 100 drawings and photographs illustrate how to use equipment properly.” IESNA #PB

Concert Lighting: Techniques, Art and Business 2nd Ed, by James L. Moody; Focal Press ISBN: 0-240-82934 This book is worth examining and buying soon... “Concert Lighting is designed to assist students and professionals in understanding the unique fixtures, structures, and special effects and design elements used in concert lighting. It includes sections on CAD, moving lights, hi-bred consoles, and concert techniques in television production.”


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## propmonkey (Sep 21, 2005)

i was hoping for more of an online guide instead of a book. ill see if i can get the local library to order them in the mean time.


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## drumbum (Oct 30, 2005)

Im not sure they exist online. It all depends on what you learn from technique, depends on the music, your rig, your desk . . .etc . . .


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## Mayhem (Oct 31, 2005)

Have you thought about renting some live concert DVD's or Videos? They will not spoon feed you but they will show you different looks and rigs and for most you will be able to pick the fixtures. 

Think lots of PAR cans, ACL's and (more recently) moving yokes. Lasers were pretty big in the late 80's but not really something to worry about. 

Believe that Motley Crue are currently touring with 32 MAC 2000 washes and very little else. PAR cans were the stock standard rock and roll light and in many cases still are. Great if you don’t have a huge budget or access to intelligent lighting.


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## Dale (Oct 31, 2005)

I would highly recommend that you use intelligent lighting if you don't blow the budget. A bit of moving light can make all the difference. 

Using gobos with rotation and prisims through smoke looks amazing, however it's up to the designer. 8)


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## KindredHyperion (Oct 31, 2005)

However, *moving lights do not make a good design*. A good lighting designer makes a good design. Moving lights are there if you need them and yes they can make some wonderful effects if used well, but it is still possible to light a great show using only parcans.


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## BillESC (Oct 31, 2005)

Kindred,

I agree with you...the design makes the show, not the fixtures.

When I toured moving lights had not yet been invented, all we had were Pars, Lekos, Scoops, Beam projectors and Fresnels. We were still able to make the audience gasp on cue or stand up any scream.

My first system was 32 1K Pars rigged 8 to a Genie air tower and I did hundreds of shows and tours for the likes of Harry Chapin, Hot Tuna, Blue Oyster Cult, etc. Later one my system was a 40' x 25' truss grid with 120 1K Par cans and full curtain system which toured mostly arena sized events during the late 70's and into the 80's.


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## jbeutt (Oct 31, 2005)

It's great to hear people say that. So often now, technology rules the design and it really shouldn't.
It's important to really look at the show with a designers eye. you're creating a look to compliment the music of the group and to a certain extent, the space they're playing in.
Moving lights are great, but they can soooo easily be used poorly. It takes just as much skill to design with moving lights as it does with a PAR rig so don't rush into it. That's why I hate calling them intelligent lights. They aren't, you are.
There's also the consideration of money. On a low budget, you'll be severely restricted if you use moving lights, because you'll have so few.


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## len (Oct 31, 2005)

There's so many more factors to touring and concert design. Electrical availability, stage/venue size, type of act, budget, room on the truck, and a whole lot else. 

Plus, there's a lot lot lot more tools available to lighting designers these days than just pars and moving yokes. You've got static video, moving video, led walls, fiber curtains, color, pyro, etc. 

I've spent up to a week just working on the rigging layout for a recent two week event in 7 different venues.


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## propmonkey (Oct 31, 2005)

Im interested in the design princples. Im want to know how apply the design elements to a theatre situation. general stage lighting is good for plays and musicals but for like a band concerts, dance recitials, and other shows i want to know howto make the lighting stand out, pop. like waht colors to use, backlighting, blinders, fingers, cyc displays. and otherr effects like that. like i know to set up a a protable tree on stage and have a few frensels pointed towards the audence with different colors. last year i had 2 par64 on the stage pointing towards the ceiling angled towards the audence. i ve seen this effect many tiems at concerts and other theatrical events ive been too. yet when i tired doing that simple thing other people on the crew were like "thats stupid" "theres no point" i want to be able to design like that. have multiple colors, effects, blinders and still have the preformers lite at all times but not distract the audence and help convey an idea and feeling that they should experience to go with the show or scene. i just would like a basic guide to concert design like the stage lighting guide provided by bill williams. 

may some one here put one together? may a few people here put ideas come together and put a decent guide together/


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## BillESC (Nov 1, 2005)

Ross,

I too started out in theatre, community theatre to be exact. In 1963 I joined the Barn Theatre in Mountain Lakes, NJ and since I was only 13 at the time, the old men had me in the rafters hanging lights. For the first few seasons I just followed directions and watched what different designers did and what the outcome was.

After awhile I began to do shows by myself. Don't be afraid to experiment... It's where the best effects come from. 

Lighting for concerts has no rules, no set positions, it is and should be a "Design out of the box" exercise.


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## wolf825 (Nov 1, 2005)

Ross, 
FWIW, if you have specific questions I think you can see a lot of folks here have the backgrounds to help you out. Concert lighting from a design aspect is opposite a theatrical aspect in that in a theater the lights are there to bring out the actors and set the mood, where in a concert situation the lights are part of that whole experience. You can do some great designs and effects with standard par cans--so don't feel worried if you can not afford or use moving lights all the time. "Flash & trash" as it is referred to sometimes, is nice and effective, but it has its place and time. I've seen all-conventional rigs of nothing but pars and beam proijectors that can rock a show...and I've seen all-intel rigs that were abominable and horrible in execution. Part of it is the design,m but a bigger part IMO is the designer and his use of the equipment. If you know how to cook--you can make a great omlette with one egg and a slice of ham...but if you don't know how to cook, it doesn't matter how many eggs or how much ham or cheese you have--you will still make a mess that doesn't mesh. Designing is basically a branch of your imagination and creativity, and knowing how to use the gear to make that imagination happen.. For example: Most conventional concert rigs use Medium Flood PARS on the front and Narrow PARS on the rear...and the front truss usually has dual narrow spots at center or a leko, for each "special" or solo needed..and the rear truss usually skips a color in favor of an open white. If your rear truss height is going to be shallow, use Mediums in the back and accent with some ACL's for fans... Saturated colors and a complimentary mix are good choices. Primary Blue, Primary Red, Canary Yellow, a good deep Magenta, a bright Teal & bright Purple are all good starter colors of choice...but it depends on the number of fixtures you have and the size of the stage you cover. There are about a million different choices here tho..and you can mix some theatrical elements in that work well. I've seen Cyc lights used for backdrops--and MR16 ground rows for uplighting or back lighting and chase light effects and so on.. Point is--once you have the basic set up for conventionals situated in your mind, Add movers or other lights for effects to a basic conventional rig for some extra snazz...but know they are there for show and tell--not the main stage light source. In the case of MR16's for example--they won't backlight a show no matter how you focus them, but they will be a visable chase effect or a simple "color strip" that can add a dimension to a plain stage. 

-w


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## Dale (Nov 1, 2005)

jbeutt said:


> It's great to hear people say that. So often now, technology rules the design and it really shouldn't.
> It's important to really look at the show with a designers eye. you're creating a look to compliment the music of the group and to a certain extent, the space they're playing in.
> Moving lights are great, but they can soooo easily be used poorly. It takes just as much skill to design with moving lights as it does with a PAR rig so don't rush into it. That's why I hate calling them intelligent lights. They aren't, you are.
> There's also the consideration of money. On a low budget, you'll be severely restricted if you use moving lights, because you'll have so few.



Are they not called intelligent lights because they can do a multitude of things that a conventional luminare can't?


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## jonhirsh (Nov 1, 2005)

There are many names for "Intelligent lights" they can be called 

wiggles
wigglers
wiggle lights
moving lights 
intels
moving yokes
scanners


there are many names for them but i don't like calling them intelligent because they are only as smart as the programer and sometimes the programer can be really stupid.


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## Mayhem (Nov 2, 2005)

jonhirsh said:


> There are many names for "Intelligent lights" they can be called
> 
> wiggles
> wigglers
> ...



You forgot all the naughty words use to describe them when they break down!


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## jonhirsh (Nov 2, 2005)

Yah i figured i would try and keep it pg13. 


JH


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## Dale (Nov 2, 2005)

Mayhem said:


> jonhirsh said:
> 
> 
> > There are many names for "Intelligent lights" they can be called
> ...



LMAO


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## jbeutt (Nov 2, 2005)

As far as color design, concerts are fun because you can think of them more as graphic design. Like wolf825 said, using complimentary colors and such. It's like a painting.

In theater, you're using color to create mood and shadow. Often little or no color for actors and so on. But concerts you can go wild. Make sure though you have those specials with no color or pink for the musicians. The audience will apprecriate it.

Dale - Huh? I just meant the same this jonathan said. I was more making a point that actually saying I have a problem with calling them intelligent. It's no big deal as long as everyone realizes, as wolf so aptly put it, you've got to be a good cook.


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## drumbum (Nov 3, 2005)

jonhirsh said:


> there are many names for them but i don't like calling them intelligent because they are only as smart as the programer and sometimes the programer can be really stupid.



This is so true. 

Anycase . . . one of hte best things that i have learned fr concert lighting is not to use what you learn from theatrical lighting. Angles are still always great, but variation in color isnt always what you want, just a general wash with specials on vocalist, soloist . . . what have you. Accent light is also a great tool , but dont over use it. But again it all depends on the type of music you are lighting, what you have to work with . . . etc. Any insight into what you have?


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## jfitzpat (Nov 23, 2005)

BillESC said:


> Kindred,
> 
> I agree with you...the design makes the show, not the fixtures.
> 
> ...



Bill,

Suddenly I think we may have already met in person. I did a BOC tour (albiet towards the group's EOL), and I still know the words to Hot Tuna's 'Hesitation Blues'...  I also just realized that I haven't followed up with you to make sure that Patrick got you squared away. Sorry, I'll follow up via email.

On topic - I have to agree, what you do with the gear is more important than the gear itself. The two best pieces of advice that I can pass on for concert lighting are:

1. 'Don't blow your wad' (aka, don't squander your bank roll)
2. 'Less is more'

I put both in quotes since I know that I am not the first to say them. Both these have served me well, regardless of rather I was in a tiny club with 8 par cans or in the middle of an arena with mountains of gear at my fingertips.

Imagine you are doing a club band and your best special (perhaps your only special) is a par can behind the drum riser. Don't use this 7 times during the first song! Who cares about the opening song, the crowd is excited that the show is starting. Hold this dramatic look for a big moment later in the show. If you blow all your tricks early, your show has no where to build to.

The concept of 'less' is related and hard to stress enough. I can remember a Triumph tour were there were constant complaints about the lasers. Everyone said there needed to be more lasers, more power, more effects. This was before the YAG revolution, when more power meant still more Spectraphysics 171 argon and krypton lasers, each a power and water headache.

It reached the point where the crew was struggling just to get all the laser equipment up each day and still no one was happy. I was supposed to go out, brainstorm, and help come up with a new effect to smooth feathers. My 'innovation' consisted of putting the audience in the dark, teasing them with sparse beam bursts, slowly drawing the Triumph logo, color strobing it, then doing a beam ceiling. I think the band was told I put in new optics...

Think about it, laser beams everwhere, graphics flying around a screen. You go 'Wow!', for about 3 seconds. Sit in the dark for 3 seconds with the music swirling around you and the suspense builds. Flash one laser beam over that crowd and they scream.

The power of less also applies to conventional lighting. Run out of looks at a dance recital or concert? Experiment with using your rig one fixture at a time!

-jjf


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## Thomas (Nov 23, 2005)

Just for interest's sake, if anyone wants to see an example of really BAD concert lighting, check out the InFlames "Used and Abused In Live we Trust" DVD. That's a good example of moving light overkill. The music's great though.


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## ManOfLights (Jan 15, 2006)

What kind of concert is it? ROck Band? school proformance?


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## len (Jan 15, 2006)

jfitzpat said:


> The two best pieces of advice that I can pass on for concert lighting are:
> [[snipped]]
> 
> 2. 'Less is more'
> -jjf



I wish my I could get some of my clients to pay attention to that. They want "more is more." They want Vegas style flash, and most of them don't have the budget. And sometimes I have to switch gears from day to day. On the 27th I'm doing a show for a band that wants a very dark, edgy show, a la Nine Inch Nails and Ministry, and the 28th and 29th another client wants Vegas glitz.


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## digitaltec (Jan 15, 2006)

Finally a topic I can relate to...

I hear the less is more comment alot and you know to a point I agree by it.

As some of you know, the rigs I use currently are 98% moving. Most of them have 150+ movers in them. Most of you guys would kill to see that many lights  But at the end of they day I would kill to have some PAR Can's.

PAR cans can achieve effects that no movers can. Plus when lighting for video, movers can't acheive the right color temperature that most VD's are looking for. 

Some of the best shows I have done and have seen contain barly any movement from the movers. You can achieve so much with just scroling through colors and gobos with some shutter effects. 

You also got to keep the designs in control of who you are lighting for. 

I can go on and on but going back to the whole less is more comment... yeah I agree that some old school techniques can make any show just as well as new school.


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## soundman1024 (Jan 15, 2006)

There are limits to less is more obviously. One must have a sufficient amout of gear for the area they are in. I also disagree in that once everything is light correctly it is nice to have a few extra lights. At the same time I agree very much. There is a threshold between enough and too much. Overusing lights, particularly movers is bad.


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