# Mac Apps Poll



## Jay Ashworth (Jun 18, 2021)

Commissioning a new Mac Mini (my first Mac since my Macbook went Tango Uniform a few years back). 

Other than QLab, what Mac apps do you like for theatre and staging, hive mind? Show control, but other stuff too...

I'm running Catalina (10.15), but I may roll back a few releases; QLab 2, frex, won't run on Catalina and I have a bunch of old shows in 2 that 4.x won't read.


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## TimMc (Jun 18, 2021)

Don't look up the coast, but Monterey is out...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 18, 2021)

TimMc said:


> Don't look up the coast, but Monterey is out...


I already can't run the QLab 3 necessary to read all my old Q2 files on Catalina, and am considering rewinding to 10.13...


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## TimMc (Jun 18, 2021)

I like backwards compatibility; I suppose at some point one must move forward and not look back. Even on the Winders side things are aging out faster.


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## macsound (Jun 21, 2021)

As a hardcore mac user, most of my Macs are running High Sierra or Mojave, even though they are all capable of running Big Sur. They still issue Security patches so no worries on that front. 

In answer to Jay's question, Keyboard Maestro is one app that I just started using and see the potential. It looks super complicated (useful once you figure it out) until you find the "record" button, allowing you to create a recallable macro of your mouse and keyboard movement. Even better, the app can create a webpage so you can trigger that macro remotely on a phone or other networked computer.


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## Ben Stiegler (Jun 23, 2021)

The old forked version approach … if your systems are air gapped from the dangerous inter webs… but sooner or later your skis get so far apart that something goes riiiip in your groin (metaphorically speaking). Been there … had to do the work rebuilding / format converting a few times, usually not when I had slack time available, either…

good luck


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## Mike m (Jun 23, 2021)

Any video projection mapping work in your future? I found having a copy of madmapper on my Mac to be handy. audacity for last minute audio editing / remixing, and reaper with a stack of vst plugins for when the house system is sorely out of tune. QLab of course.

question on going back to older os revs — will you be able to run say 10.13 on an m1 based machine?


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## nealgrover (Jun 23, 2021)

I use Lightkey. It is compatible with open source usb dongle and MIDI.


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## MaikW (Jun 25, 2021)

I'm using
- MicsBigInfo/MicsTimer/QDisplay as helper-apps for QLab.
- Simple Client from the Syphon Simple Apps-package to examin QLab's video-output.
- MIDI Monitor to examin MIDI.
- ocenaudio as replacement for Audacity, for last minutes edits or marker changes.
- AudioFinder for last minutes edits and as sample/sounds/audio database.
- FastScripts as replacement for AppleScript editor's menu item.
- Bonjeff/Discovery/Flame for zeroconfig.
And lot's of small helpers, I constantly forget or don't even need anymore.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 26, 2021)

macsound said:


> In answer to Jay's question, Keyboard Maestro is one app that I just started using and see the potential. It looks super complicated (useful once you figure it out) until you find the "record" button, allowing you to create a recallable macro of your mouse and keyboard movement. Even better, the app can create a webpage so you can trigger that macro remotely on a phone or other networked computer.


That sounds like (at least a spiritual) descendant of CE QuicKeys, to me; I'll check it out. Thanks.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 26, 2021)

Mike m said:


> Any video projection mapping work in your future? I found having a copy of madmapper on my Mac to be handy. audacity for last minute audio editing / remixing, and reaper with a stack of vst plugins for when the house system is sorely out of tune. QLab of course.
> 
> question on going back to older os revs — will you be able to run say 10.13 on an m1 based machine?


Probably not. Apple *officially* does not give a good goddamn if they abandon small software vendors. Excuse me: *the Apple-buying customers of small software vendors*.

(Where "small" is defined as "I can't afford the labor to bring this forwards because *you* can't be bothered to maintain old APIs, Apple".)


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 26, 2021)

I suggest wireshark as well, just to monitor network traffic.

For video work, I like Isadora. As a node based program, it takes a bit more learning to set it up than something like Qlab (some really great YouTube tutorials), but I think that it is ultimately more versatile if you are looking to have any interactivity or creative projection. I like being able to create my own control surfaces. I wish that I had a Mac to run it on as it is more powerful on Mac than PC.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jun 26, 2021)

I hadn't thought about Isadora.

We had a dance company in last year (the year before) who used that, and it worked out pretty well, but my quick glance at it at the time seemed pretty boggling; I'm apparently not as young as I used to be.

And 'shark's a great idea, yeah.


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## TimMc (Jun 26, 2021)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I hadn't thought about Isadora.
> 
> We had a dance company in last year (the year before) who used that, and it worked out pretty well, but my quick glance at it at the time seemed pretty boggling; I'm apparently not as young as I used to be.
> 
> And 'shark's a great idea, yeah.



Isadora was *written* by a dancer. He codes, too. It's a node-based program and some of the terminology he used, like "projector" for a signal output, seems a bit odd but was based on what his anticipated early users were familiar with. We tech-types can miss those things.

Isadora also works well with other programs like ZoomOSC, can be used to trigger things over WAN via Streamweaver, etc. It's a very powerful.

A focus on Izzy here: 

Other things Izzy can do:


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 26, 2021)

TimMc said:


> Isadora was *written* by a dancer. He codes, too. It's a node-based program and some of the terminology he used, like "projector" for a signal output, seems a bit odd but was based on what his anticipated early users were familiar with. We tech-types can miss those things.
> 
> Isadora also works well with other programs like ZoomOSC, can be used to trigger things over WAN via Streamweaver, etc. It's a very powerful.
> 
> ...




Yes, the terminology can be a bit odd. It takes some getting used to. The blank slate of the program can be intimidating. Fortunately, there have been some improvements in quick start over the years (dragging a video clip into the programming window will automatically set up everything for it to immediately begin playback). Since its so versatile with communication protocols (MIDI, etc.), it can be used just as a control surface for other connected items even if you don't have any video to play back.


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## macsound (Jun 28, 2021)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Probably not. Apple *officially* does not give a good goddamn if they abandon small software vendors. Excuse me: *the Apple-buying customers of small software vendors*.
> 
> (Where "small" is defined as "I can't afford the labor to bring this forwards because *you* can't be bothered to maintain old APIs, Apple".)


Not that I want to sound like a complete Mac fanboy, but the possibility of Mac os from 2017 working on an M1 mac with completely different architecture is kind of a stretch request. You can still buy any new Intel Mac if you want to run older software. Even an older mac used. Heck, my computer I'm typing on right now is running 10.13.
I understand that even Windows 11 can run on a 1Ghz celeron with 4GB of ram but come on. Shouldn't we be excited about technology advances?


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## almorton (Jun 29, 2021)

Actually, people are finding that their two and three year old PCs _won't_ run windows 11 because the hardware doesn't meet the requirements and they're going to have to upgrade some or all of the hardware if they want to upgrade the OS. Windows 10 just about manages on old hardware, but with (some) reduced functionality.


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## sk8rsdad (Jun 29, 2021)

almorton said:


> Actually, people are finding that their two and three year old PCs _won't_ run windows 11 because the hardware doesn't meet the requirements and they're going to have to upgrade some or all of the hardware if they want to upgrade the OS. Windows 10 just about manages on old hardware, but with (some) reduced functionality.



Most of the issues are with the requirement for a TPM, which is common in laptops and business PCs but rare in home PCs. Sometimes one can be enabled with a BIOS setting. Sometimes it can be fixed by adding a $15 aftermarket part. Sometimes you’re pooched.

The bigger issue for me is Micro$oft’s insistence on a network login account. They have tried this before and it always gets pushback. Here is hoping this time around it meets a similar demise.


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## almorton (Jun 29, 2021)

I saw a few comments on code project about other issues, too. Just like with Apple, it _appears_ the OS won't load if your graphics card isn't up to snuff. One guy found his two year old surface (not sure of model - pro 2?) failed.

Also, surprise, surprise, seeing reports of scalpers buying up stock of aftermarket TPM chips.


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## Joel Engelhardt (Jun 30, 2021)

A must-have piece of software is Bitfocus Companion. This software lets most any device or software talk with any other piece of software! It's made for the Elgato Stream Deck to create macros for triggering multiple devices.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 4, 2021)

macsound said:


> Not that I want to sound like a complete Mac fanboy, but the possibility of Mac os from 2017 working on an M1 mac with completely different architecture is kind of a stretch request. You can still buy any new Intel Mac if you want to run older software. Even an older mac used. Heck, my computer I'm typing on right now is running 10.13.
> I understand that even Windows 11 can run on a 1Ghz celeron with 4GB of ram but come on. Shouldn't we be excited about technology advances?


Yeah, but that's not my problem.

My problem is when they do in-processor upgrades to the OS that break APIs, such that the program I've been happily using for a decade, which is not only abandoned, but *it's author is dead* -- it is not *getting* any more upgrades -- gratuitously stops working.

So my choices are "give it its own machine with an old enough OS, and pray nothing eats it", or "throw it out and replace it with... well, there's nothing to replace it with, is there now?"

This actually applied to QLab -- 3 would read 2, but 4 will not, and I had a bunch of stuff in 2 that, well, isn't *useless*, but I can't get to it now *because gratuitous OS upgrades won't let 2 run anymore... and possibly 3; I think I've been pinning my OSs so as not to break QLab3.

And *I make a living as an IT pro*, I can't imagine how this version skew stuff imposed on users by Apple not really caring anymore* affects people who are just LDs and SDs.

[ * they *used* to care; when they dumped 68K and PowerPC, those old apps ran for a *really long time* in emulation; that's a large part of why users were so devoted to them. They cared. ]


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 4, 2021)

Joel Engelhardt said:


> A must-have piece of software is Bitfocus Companion. This software lets most any device or software talk with any other piece of software! It's made for the Elgato Stream Deck to create macros for triggering multiple devices.


Indeed, though I'm Team DeMax.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 4, 2021)

sk8rsdad said:


> Most of the issues are with the requirement for a TPM, which is common in laptops and business PCs but rare in home PCs. Sometimes one can be enabled with a BIOS setting. Sometimes it can be fixed by adding a $15 aftermarket part. Sometimes you’re pooched.
> 
> The bigger issue for me is Micro$oft’s insistence on a network login account. They have tried this before and it always gets pushback. Here is hoping this time around it meets a similar demise.


If you mean "requiring a Microsoft Account to set up the OS", the stock solution has always been "Pick Domain Join and create a local account"; when that doesn't work, the secondary trick is "unplug the Network just before you get to that step".

Is *that* not working on 11 either?

I'm about to ship something like 50 desktops in 21H2; if I can't join them on domains without a MSAccount to set them up...


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 4, 2021)

The new Mini I just bought, used, BTdubs, is a 2012 6,1. EveryMac seems pretty confident that motherboard will *not* take 16GB SODIMMS, for 32G; I'm stuck at 2x8GB -- can anyone overrule that view from *firsthand knowledge* before I buy RAM?


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