# College Selection



## briancon7

I have been starting to think about colleges and have not decided what I want to do, but I wanted to know what the process would be to go to school for technical theater (lighting).


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## chris325

Join the club (lighting tech). Although I'm looking for a midwestern school, while I assume you're looking for something relatively east coast. One of the biggest questions is size. Do you want a small school where you can get started right away designing and doing everything else, or do you want a big school where you'll get to work with phenomenal equipment. Also, whether you are looking for a BA, BFA, a degree specifically in technical theatre, or a specific stage lighting program. Elaborate, and I’m sure a few east coast area people will come along and provide specific colleges that you could consider.


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## Footer

Apply to the school..... get accepted... go interview/do a portfolio presentation.... get accepted.... pick a roomy. 

Its really no different then any other major except you have to get accepted to the college then the degree program.


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## Parker

chris325 said:


> Join the club (lighting tech). Although I'm looking for a midwestern school, while I assume you're looking for something relatively east coast. One of the biggest questions is size. Do you want a small school where you can get started right away designing and doing everything else, or do you want a big school where you'll get to work with phenomenal equipment. Also, whether you are looking for a BA, BFA, a degree specifically in technical theatre, or a specific stage lighting program. Elaborate, and I’m sure a few east coast area people will come along and provide specific colleges that you could consider.



Chris- A lot of smaller schools have "phenomenal" equipment too... don't rule them out just because they're small.
If it were me, and I had to do it all over again... I would still choose the small school... i just wish it had been in a bigger city.
Good luck on your search... let me know if you need anything.


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## chris325

Parker said:


> Chris- A lot of smaller schools have "phenomenal" equipment too... don't rule them out just because they're small.



Oh, I understand that. The college I'm most interested in had an enrollment of a whole 11 people for the fall 2009 semester in the Theare Design & Technology program, but it also has the largest theatre in the state of Michigan and one of the stronger theatre programs in the area.


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## Parker

chris325 said:


> Oh, I understand that. The college I'm most interested in had an enrollment of a whole 11 people for the fall 2009 semester in the Theare Design & Technology program, but it also has the largest theatre in the state of Michigan and one of the stronger theatre programs in the area.



Sounds cool - best of luck!


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## MrsFooter

chris325 said:


> Oh, I understand that. The college I'm most interested in had an enrollment of a whole 11 people for the fall 2009 semester in the Theare Design & Technology program, but it also has the largest theatre in the state of Michigan and one of the stronger theatre programs in the area.



I'm from the mid-Michigan area, what program are you looking at?


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## chris325

Oakland University (Auburn Hills, about an hour north of Detroit.) Both parents went there, one still teaches there online. Meadow Brook Theatre, the school's main theater, is I think the largest collegeiate theatre in the state, not the largest overall. (Something tells me that the Fox is bigger.) They started their technical theatre program about two years ago, and it'll probably be significantly larger by the time I would be applying (I'm a sophomore.)


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## MrsFooter

chris325 said:


> Oakland University (Auburn Hills, about an hour north of Detroit.) Both parents went there, one still teaches there online. Meadow Brook Theatre, the school's main theater, is I think the largest collegeiate theatre in the state, not the largest overall. (Something tells me that the Fox is bigger.) They started their technical theatre program about two years ago, and it'll probably be significantly larger by the time I would be applying (I'm a sophomore.)



Never heard of it. Which is interesting, since I grew up a mere 1.5 hours west in Jackson, MI. From looking around at their website, I would discourage it. I'm sure they have a great whatever-your-parents-majored-in department, but the fact that their tech department is so young is disconcerting, as is their lack of full-time teaching staff.

But what I would _really_ like to encourage you to do is to not worry about it. You're only a sophomore, and there will be plenty of time to worry about colleges later. Get out in the sunlight and enjoy being in high school; worry about college in a year.


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## chris325

MrsFooter said:


> Get out in the sunlight,



_There's_ something I haven't done in a while... although I've definitely been in a lot of stage light...


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## WestlakeTech

I can make the following suggestion from personal experience...

Please do NOT go to Texas State University. 

(not to be confused with University of Texas)

The theatre and design/tech programs themselves really aren't bad. They're relatively good (though being a freshman, I can't say much 'cause I don't know much). But the school as a whole... just kinda bites; and I'm confident that you can find an equal or better design/tech program at a much better school.


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## josh88

Might as well throw in a plug for my school, its not as midwest as some places are but Bowling Green State University in Ohio has decent tuition and a great program. The best thing about it is starting not next fall but the fall after... I believe it will be fall of 2011 they will have the brand new Wolfe Center, 2 brand new theatre, studio spaces, new shops etc, its already won a couple awards and apparently just got ranked 3rd for new theatre architecture by somebody. Along with all that there will be all brand new ETC equipment, new cables, fixtures, boards, moving fixtures, hydraulic pits, fly winches, TONS of new gear to play with. so its a huge step up for us.

The other good thing about our tech program is that you can specialize in acting/directing, youth theatre/puppetry, or design tech. I'm a dual spec, puppetry/tech, and have done 4 or 5 major designs for university shows. So once you know the department which happens pretty fast, you can start getting your foot in the door and specialize further by saying I want to do lights, and the faculty will say ok, lets get this person what they need to know and give them some chances to do it. 

BG surely isn't the best school in the world, but the brand new facilities and gear is a pretty nice pull at the moment. feel free to PM if you have any questions.


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## gafftaper

josh88 said:


> Might as well throw in a plug for my school, its not as midwest as some places are but Bowling Green State University in Ohio has decent tuition and a great program. The best thing about it is starting not next fall but the fall after... I believe it will be fall of 2011 they will have the brand new Wolfe Center, 2 brand new theatre, studio spaces, new shops etc, its already won a couple awards...



Thanks Josh. That's just the kind of information students here need. 

One of the most critical things for a high school student choosing a college is to talk to actual students attending the school. It's pretty much meaningless to ask an alumni about the university he/she attended. Once a few years have passed things will have changed so much it's really hard to know if the program is any good. 

Then there's the recruiting office who will tell you how wonderful the program is but that's just propaganda. They won't tell you about bad professors and how difficult/easy it is to actually get to work on a show. 

No, You have to talk to students currently in the program to get the honest truth about a program.


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## ishboo

If I may throw in my two cents. As gafftaper said talk to students, talk to everyone you can about the program learn about it from all different angles. If you schedule a visit email the faculty and ask to set up a meeting, in my experience almost all of them will be more than happy to sit down and talk to you and that was how I eventually made my decision.
One other piece of advice that really helped me. Do all of your searching junior year. I went into my senior year knowing exactly where I wanted to go and I applied for early decision to that school and got accepted on the spot. I only filled out one application and wrote 1 essay and I knew where I was going in November while all of my friends this year have been stressing out and they are bogged down with essays and they are still touring. If you can get all that out of the way your junior year it will make your senior year sooooooo much easier.


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## bdkdesigns

Glad BGSU is getting new equipment. Their current inventory is rather lacking and they don't have the money for upkeep it seems. The scrollers, autoyokes, and Revs are nice, but they have been beaten up pretty hard on the Mama Mia tour. I tried to do some maintenance on the Revs that I used but couldn't get any money and just found out they still haven't gotten the money to make the fixes.

I was rather surprised considering their advertising budget seems to be unlimited. I've seen their posters with the little tear out sheets for info in almost every university that I've been to.


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## josh88

ah, Cedar Point and Huron hehe. The Revs are actually in pretty good shape now, and most of the scrollers are in good shape, they're still all white though and we've been planning on painting them black since we got them. Lots of stuff got a good fixing this year. Except for our large stage. We just finished a run of Mother Courage and the entire building experienced a power surge which killed our 3rd electric as well as some portable dimmers and one of the follow spots (which we have since fixed luckily). As it stands that stage won't be used again, so we're splitting our season next year between our small stage (around 175 seats) and the stage over in the music building that is usually only used for the operas. year after that the Wolfe Center will be open. 

I think that one of the problems with our equipment is that the stuff thats broken has sat un-repaired because we simply don't have people that know how to fix it, and our shop manager who does is already busy trying to do everything else he needs to do and we still have stuff sitting around that came back broken from Huron/missing parts.


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## NJLX

I'll throw in a plug for Boston University. I love it here, and feel that i'm learning a lot.

see my previous post in another thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/education/15728-college-light-designer-2.html#post151740


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## briancon7

What do you think will be more important to most schools if I am looking for Technical Theater, my GPA, or resume and portfolio?


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## NJLX

At BU anyway(and I would suspect most places), the admissions office cares about your gpa, SAT, classes, etc., and the design&production program cares about your resume/portfolio. Both matter equally, and are important in order to be accepted


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## skienblack

I'm currently a freshman at CU Boulder. I didn't choose my college for their theatre programs, maybe not the best idea, but I could not be happier any where else. The programs here are small, which is awesome since you get tons of expierence and gain very good relationships with the faculty from the get go. 

My advice would be to goto any school where you will be happy rather than the program. From my expierence checking out schools, any respectable program will have atleast a sampling of any equipment you will find in the field. While we only have 8 ML, I am still gaining expierence on working with Revolutions and Studio Spots. We may not have the nicest LED fixtures but I'm still getting expierence working with them. Just go where you will be happy and everything else usually works out. If that fails you can always look for local professional work and gain valuable expierence.


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## Footer

Nathaniel said:


> At BU anyway(and I would suspect most places), the admissions office cares about your gpa, SAT, classes, etc., and the design&production program cares about your resume/portfolio. Both matter equally, and are important in order to be accepted



ACT and GPA is what will get you into the University. Its your portfolio that will get you into the fine arts college. If your GPA and ACT schools are not good enough to get you into the University you are not going to go to the school, it does not matter if you have the best portfolio ever. Grades DO matter. Many schools won't even look at you if your ACT/SAT is not high enough. There are also many theatre programs that won't talk to you until you are accepted to the University. 

After you get into the "real world" post college, your GPA does not matter unless you are going back to academia as either a teacher or a student. I have only sent out on transcript in my life and that was to get my teaching cert.


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## briancon7

Thanks guys.


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## Syphilis

MrsFooter said:


> But what I would _really_ like to encourage you to do is to not worry about it. You're only a sophomore, and there will be plenty of time to worry about colleges later. Get out in the sunlight and enjoy being in high school.



OP's a lighting tech. I doubt there will be much non-artificial sunlight in his/her future.

I just jumped to the end of the thread, so sorry for any repetition. I'm not sure if you're looking at conservatory programs or not, but if you are here's my sage advice as someone who literally finished the process last week. 

Make your portfolio extremely impressive. Start working on it right this moment, and take copious pictures of everything you do, even little side projects that just showcase creativity. Mine (now gathering dust) is about fifty 11 by 17 inch pages, with around 10 pictures on every page. I was lucky enough to only interview at places that wanted to see me personally, if you have to mail them a smaller portfolio things can get pretty annoying.

And make sure to give examples from every stage of your designs, from thumbnails to plots to magic sheets to the final product. And regardless of the specificity of the program, schools do want to see examples of involvement in all aspects of theatre. 

To answer your question, if the conservatory is serious your portfolio really will count more than your grades. What I was told at my interviews was that for NYU Tisch the portfolio is 70% of the decision process, at BU (as nathaniel said) it's 50%, at SUNY Purchase 70%, and (considering I was accepted on the spot without my interviewer even looking at my grades, essays, or application) University of North Carolina School of the Arts must rank portfolio quality at near 100%. I'll be attending UNCSA in the fall, and if you're looking into conservatory lighting schools I would seriously consider applying there, or anywhere else I mentioned above.

Any more questions, feel free to message me. I literally just finished this entire process, and am simply brimming with info.


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## Syphilis

chris325 said:


> Oh, I understand that. The college I'm most interested in had an enrollment of a whole 11 people for the fall 2009 semester in the Theare Design & Technology program, but it also has the largest theatre in the state of Michigan and one of the stronger theatre programs in the area.



It's true, the best programs are (usually) the smallest. SUNY Purchase's acceptance rate this year was 8%, if I recall correctly, and they've got a freshman class of forty in lighting. BU's is a hundred and forty for the whole tech program, and at UNCSA I think the freshman Technical Direction class has seven students, but is one of the best in the whole country (at least two usually drop out by the end of the year). Of course, Tisch has a starting class of 1,200 Technical Theatre students (one of the reasons I decided not to go there), so who knows.


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## Footer

Syphilis said:


> To answer your question, if the conservatory is serious your portfolio really will count more than your grades.



That is not at all true. If you can't get into the University, you can not get into the school. No fine arts college is going to go to bat for you to get you in because you got horrible grades. I was one of the people that had a horrid GPA out of H.S. If it was not for my ACT score I would not have gotten into the college I attended. No college wants someone who is lazy. How you show you are not lazy is to perform well in all facets of your education. 

When I taught at a performing arts magnet school with students that had killer portfolios many of them had issues getting into top schools because of grades. Unfortunately, their education was just not on par with other schools. They knew theatre, but they did not have the ACT/SAT scores to get into these programs. One of my students was accepted into a top program but was not accepted to the university and ended up at a state school. 

Also, when it comes down to money, academic scholarships pay much better then talent scholarships. If it was not for talent scholarships, I would not have gone to the college I attended. However, my student loans are twice what my wife's is because she ALSO had an academic scholarship. Study hard kids. You don't want to be paying for it later.


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## NJLX

Syphilis said:


> It's true, the best programs are (usually) the smallest. SUNY Purchase's acceptance rate this year was 8%, if I recall correctly, and they've got a freshman class of forty in lighting. BU's is a hundred and forty for the whole tech program, and at UNCSA I think the freshman Technical Direction class has seven students, but is one of the best in the whole country (at least two usually drop out by the end of the year). Of course, Tisch has a starting class of 1,200 Technical Theatre students (one of the reasons I decided not to go there), so who knows.



I agree, small programs can be great. I believe we're actually around 100 at BU this year, at most 120(we have between 20 and 25 lighting designers, 3 of which are freshmen). 

If anyone's interested in BU, send me a message and I can answer any questions/get you in touch with the right people.


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## Pie4Weebl

Syphilis said:


> Make your portfolio extremely impressive. Start working on it right this moment, and take copious pictures of everything you do, even little side projects that just showcase creativity. Mine (now gathering dust) is about fifty 11 by 17 inch pages, with around 10 pictures on every page. I was lucky enough to only interview at places that wanted to see me personally, if you have to mail them a smaller portfolio things can get pretty annoying.
> 
> And make sure to give examples from every stage of your designs, from thumbnails to plots to magic sheets to the final product. And regardless of the specificity of the program, schools do want to see examples of involvement in all aspects of theatre.



Seriously? I didn't even know what a magic sheet was in HS. Undergrad programs aren't interested in how amazing your portfolio is and how awesome you may think your designs are, they care about what they feel is your potential. One of the lighting designers graduating with my class this year came from a HS with all of 6 lights FOH. Enthusiasm, a willingness to learn and dedicate yourself to a program is what you need.

If you have good stuff cool, but don't worry about it too much.

Also you are sophomore in HS and you've decided on your major already? are you SURE? have you tried other things yet? Theatre is a tough world to be in.

Be a good student too, you will get cheaper tuition. Had I taken the ACT twice I would have saved more money.

Also @Chris, check out Webster. They don't recruit as much from IL as they should but it's one of the best programs in the midwest. My graduating DTSM class is all of 12 people. PM me if you'd like more info.


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## briancon7

I am almost 100% that this is what I want to do. I love being able create a look that will evoke an emotion, and its always fun to work with your hands and get a rig up. What schools would you say are good that are around MA?


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## Syphilis

Besides BU, there's Northwestern, and Yale has a pretty good design program (not as good as you would think, though, not in the top five certainly). There's also UMASS Amherst, which I was initially skeptical of but, after spending three hours hanging (out) with the lighting crew, seemed to also be a serious program. And if you head just an hour into New York there's SUNY Purchase, which was my second choice, and is one of the best design programs in the country.

Footer, you're right. I didn't mean to say that grades don't matter at all. One certainly couldn't slide into any good design programs with a C average. But if I were given a choice between putting in the extra work to get an A on a paper (as opposed to a B or so) or making my light design the best it could be (and I have been given that choice), I would choose the latter. I also scored well on my SATs, so maybe I'm not the best example, but by focusing on what I'm actually passionate about, extracurricular theatre and not academics, I think I dramatically increased my chances of getting into all of the conservatories that I did (and I say this based on what I've been told at my interviews).

Folks are absolutely right about academic scholarships, though, so there is also a serious incentive for doing well in addition to making your passion a priority.


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## NJLX

Pie4Weebl said:


> Seriously? I didn't even know what a magic sheet was in HS. Undergrad programs aren't interested in how amazing your portfolio is and how awesome you may think your designs are, they care about what they feel is your potential. One of the lighting designers graduating with my class this year came from a HS with all of 6 lights FOH. Enthusiasm, a willingness to learn and dedicate yourself to a program is what you need.



Definitely true. As far as the Massachusetts area, there are a few options. Yale is geared more towards graduate degrees than undergrad, but BU and Emerson are both good options(I would say BU is better and more serious, but I'm obviously biased, so feel free to disregard this opinion)

The biggest piece of advice I can give for choosing a school is to visit. not just the school(although that can be helpful), but the theater program. I applied to NYU, Carnegie Mellon, and BU, and after visiting all 3 I knew that BU was where I needed to be. 

Good luck.


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## Footer

briancon7 said:


> I am almost 100% that this is what I want to do. I love being able create a look that will evoke an emotion, and its always fun to work with your hands and get a rig up. What schools would you say are good that are around MA?



New York State, Vermont, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and Rhode Island are all filled with great theatre schools, all within a 3 or 4 hour train ride of anywhere. The northeast has more colleges then anywhere else in the world. Figure out what kind of program you want and go from there.


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## chris325

Pie4Weebl said:


> One of the lighting designers graduating with my class this year came from a HS with all of 6 lights FOH. Enthusiasm, a willingness to learn and dedicate yourself to a program is what you need.
> 
> Also you are sophomore in HS and you've decided on your major already? are you SURE? have you tried other things yet? Theatre is a tough world to be in.
> 
> Be a good student too, you will get cheaper tuition. Had I taken the ACT twice I would have saved more money.



The school I come from has a pretty nice setup for a high school auditorium with 650 seats, 400 channels/400 dimmers, about 70 Colortran ERS/fresnels, 4 S4 Zooms, scrollers and I-Cues, and most notably a brand new Element 60 to replace our aging Innovator. Although I've worked hard on trying to work every show I get the chance to, it's difficult considering I also enjoy acting and the school's speech team, and I'm not the only person interested in lighting at my school, adding another level of challenge. However, I've been checking backstagejobs.com regularly and trying to figure out other opportunities outside of school to gain more experience. I haven't completely settled on a technical theatre degree (I would prefer something broader than simply lights alone) I'm fairly certain it's what I'd like to do. Grades haven't been a problem for me (at least this year) and my projected ACT score from another standardized test looks quite promising, so as long as I can keep this up I shouldn't have too much of a problem making it into a lot of courses.


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## Syphilis

BU's degree in Theatre Arts with a track in Technical Design may be what you're looking for, Chris. NYU has a similar program, but which is more focused on acting and dramaturgy-type studies than tech.


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## chris325

Syphilis said:


> BU's degree in Theatre Arts with a track in Technical Design may be what you're looking for, Chris.



After looking into it, BU seems to have a phenomenal program, but with the high tuition costs it just doesn't seem feasible. The college I mentioned in my first-ish post, Oakland University, is about a quarter of the cost for in-state tuition, and apparently I may be able to pay in-state tuition as an Illinois resident. And a good chunk of my first year would be paid for by a scholarship given to students with parents/grandparents who are alumni (both parents and two grandparents went there, none in the theatre program.)


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## derekleffew

chris325 said:


> ... and apparently I may be able to pay in-state tuition as an Illinois resident. ...


Things must have changed since I went to collage! Exactly how does being a resident of Illinois qualify one for in-state rates at a university in Michigan?

FinAid | In-State Tuition and State Residency Requirements


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## Syphilis

derekleffew said:


> Things must have changed since I went to collage!



Apparently its spelling as well.

Cheap shot, I apologize.

Chris, you're absolutely right about BU's cost, and what's more is the fact they just don't give out good scholarships as a rule. NYU has the same policy, as do many of these larger private universities, of charging as much as they please and taking primarily the people that can afford to pay it.


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## chris325

Syphilis said:


> Chris, you're absolutely right about BU's cost, and what's more is the fact they just don't give out good scholarships as a rule. NYU has the same policy, as do many of these larger private universities, of charging as much as they please and taking primarily the people that can afford to pay it.



For me, what basically ruled out any Illinois school was the fact that the five that have technical theatre programs (according to a couple of college search websites) are expensive private programs, and the only one that stood out as particularly interesting anyways was DePaul, which is unfortunately much too costly. Thus, I'm beginning to branch out, and my main interest at this point is a public midwestern university that doesn't increase tuition for out-of-state students and has a rather strong technical tehatre program. OU stood out to me simply because both of my parents went there (neither theatre-related,) and I'm familiar with the area after growing up minutes away. 

Another related question: How would transferring from 1-2 years of gen ed community college to a major university's a technical theatre program compare to simply spending all four years at said major university? This may end up being my only option, so I'm curious as to how it compares considering the significant cost reduction.


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## derekleffew

chris325 said:


> For me, what basically ruled out any Illinois school was the fact that the five that have technical theatre programs (according to a couple of college search websites) are expensive private programs, ...


University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is a state school, has a highly-regarded theatre dept., but does seem expensive, even for residents.

As for two years of gen ed at a "cheap" community college then two years at a "good" university--I know people who have successfully done that in other fields, but not in theatre. I'm certain no BFA program would allow it, and suspect some BA programs wouldn't either. I think you'd be cheating yourself, by cutting in half your participation in productions.

--------
As long as I'm here, I'll bring up two topics I'm passionate about:

Choose an institution of higher learning not by the quality or newness of its equipment or facilities, but for its faculty and program. All the state-of-the-art whiz-bang gizmos don't mean squat if the professors don't know how to teach, or don't know how to use the "toys" themselves. Besides interviewing potential professors and current students, a campus visit should also include seeing a performance. Now while it's possible a HS student will be impressed with any college production, it's not always a given. I once saw a production at a "name" theatre school, with an MFA program, and the production values were so poor there is no way I could ever recommend that school. Now that I think about it, that's happened at two different schools.

Another thing--I'm leery of any school where the students design too much. (Controversial statement? Please continue reading with an open mind, before responding.)
My college allowed only seniors to design mainstage productions, and rarely if ever would allow more than one student designer on a production. I see too many students who have designed many shows, but without proper supervision. Therefore, they lack critical analysis of their work, and don't know how to collaborate or defend/explain their design decisions. IMO, design is best learned via the mentor method, not on one's own in a vacuum. Choose a college, primarily, because of its faculty.

/end lecture rant


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## erosing

chris325 said:


> Another related question: How would transferring from 1-2 years of gen ed community college to a major university's a technical theatre program compare to simply spending all four years at said major university? This may end up being my only option, so I'm curious as to how it compares considering the significant cost reduction.



I think it would depend on how you do it, and how well you research the ability to do it where you want to do it. Say if you wanted to do 2 years for gen ed. and then go finish at a 4 year, with the intent on staying more then 2 years, say if you were going to stay for 3-4(+) years (perhaps double majoring reasons) and be active that entire time with your theatre education, I could see it possibly working out. However, it would depend on the schools and their programs, I would not do it or plan on doing it with out lots of research.


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## chris325

derekleffew said:


> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is a state school, has a highly-regarded theatre dept., but does seem expensive, even for residents.



I did consider U of I for a while, particularly after getting a good look at their theatre program during 2009's Illinois High School Theatre Festival. I also believe that another lighting designer from my school is headed there next year. Unfortunately, much too expensive.

As for the question about beginning at community college, I think that I may end up working full time for a year or two after high school and then heading to a four year.


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## ruinexplorer

If you are considering a two year college before going on to a four year degree then you need to check with the second school and see how your credits will transfer before wasting your time. In the Phoenix area, Arizona State University works with all of the Maricopa Community Colleges in developing their general education credits to directly transfer to the University (which also works for the other state universities as well). I started out at a four year state college in Colorado before going over to Arizona and had some difficulty transferring credits, even though they weren't from a community college, but built on a different system. The only bonus to doing a smaller college first is that you may have opportunities for greater responsibility sooner. On the other hand, like Derek suggested, you may find that when you transfer, they treat you like a freshman.

So, you will definitely need to do your homework on the specific institutions that you plan on attending.


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## Drmafreek

derekleffew said:


> As long as I'm here, I'll bring up two topics I'm passionate about:
> 
> Choose an institution of higher learning not by the quality or newness of its equipment or facilities, but for its faculty and program. All the state-of-the-art whiz-bang gizmos don't mean squat if the professors don't know how to teach, or don't know how to use the "toys" themselves. Besides interviewing potential professors and current students, a campus visit should also include seeing a performance. Now while it's possible a HS student will be impressed with any college production, it's not always a given. I once saw a production at a "name" theatre school, with an MFA program, and the production values were so poor there is no way I could ever recommend that school. Now that I think about it, that's happened at two different schools.



I completely agree with this statement. The best equipment means little to nothing if you are not correctly trained in how to use them. Also, there are so many more venues that don't use the most up to date equipment than there are those that are fully equipped. The ETC Source 4 is probably one of the most used lighting instruments in the theatrical world, yet it's been around for some time now. As a lighting designer, I'm going to want an electrician who knows how to hang, focus and repair one of these instruments over someone who only knows how to program the most high tech movers. I guess what I'm say is make sure the school has the basics before worrying if they are the most up to date. And even at that point, make sure that the work is quality with the high tech gadgets. Go and see a show, take a tour, speak with both professors and students. That's the only way to really know what the program is like without actually attending it.


derekleffew said:


> Another thing--I'm leery of any school where the students design too much. (Controversial statement? Please continue reading with an open mind, before responding.)
> My college allowed only seniors to design mainstage productions, and rarely if ever would allow more than one student designer on a production. I see too many students who have designed many shows, but without proper supervision. Therefore, they lack critical analysis of their work, and don't know how to collaborate or defend/explain their design decisions. IMO, design is best learned via the mentor method, not on one's own in a vacuum. Choose a college, primarily, because of its faculty.



I am in semi-agreement with this statement. First, you need professors who are going to truly judge your abilities to design. Currently at my college any student can design, as long as I allow them to. And trust me, it takes some work for me to believe a student can design. Generally I get high quality designs out of those that I feel are ready, but even then I make mistakes. This semester I had a student scene designer and student lighting designer on our musical. I felt both were ready for the challenge. I was right with the scene designer and wrong with the lighting designer. In my six years teaching, I have only allowed three students to design on the mainstage. On top of that I expect them to have assistant designed one of my productions prior to actually designing. My hope is that I'm slowly training more, but they have to be ready. They have to have a passion for design, they have to be responsible enough to do the work, and they have to be smart enough to think critically about the project. Those are some hard characteristics to find in late teen/early 20 year olds. So don't worry too much about how many people are designing, check to see how many good designs are happening. Are they entering their designs into SETC or ACTF? Are there newspaper articles about the shows? Find out. Educate yourself on the schools that you are interested in.


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## bsulliv

I agree, wait a year or so before you start to worry about programs. The best question to ask is what do you want out of the program? Design experience, electrics experience, general theatre? 

There are a number of conservatory programs out there that will get you very good experience in a specific field, ie lighting, but coming straight out of high school, I would suggest a smaller program to get a good broad tech theatre education. 

I see a lot of students who graduate from conservatory style programs and they have some trouble finding work because they have a very limited skill set. Taking the time to become well rounded in your theatre experience will only help you in the long run.


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## firewater88

derekleffew said:


> University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign is a state school, has a highly-regarded theatre dept., but does seem expensive, even for residents.
> 
> As for two years of gen ed at a "cheap" community college then two years at a "good" university--I know people who have successfully done that in other fields, but not in theatre. I'm certain no BFA program would allow it, and suspect some BA programs wouldn't either. I think you'd be cheating yourself, by cutting in half your participation in productions.
> 
> 
> /end lecture rant



I kinda did that. I got an associates in Architecture from a community college, then changed my mind and switched to Engineering, another 2 years and another associates form the same community college. Changed my mind again (with a little help from my wife) and went for my BA in Tech Theatre at Western Michigan University. I did three years there. I commuted everyday for the 3 years, about an hour drive, since I couldn't convince my just married wife to move. 

When I started at WMU, I only had a few, maybe 4, classes that were outside of theatre. I spent the majority of those three years deep in the shows, mostly working in the shop. I also student taught the stagecraft class for a few semesters. 

I will now throw in my plug for this school, but don't ask me details about the program now, since it has been almost 10 years since graduation. I do keep in touch every now and then and I have a few students who have gone (or are currently going) through HS here that have gone on to study theatre there, both performance and technical. It is a tough program to get into and even harder to stay in with annual reviews of your performance.


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## phil000

chris325 said:


> Do you want a small school where you can get started right away designing and doing everything else, or do you want a big school where you'll get to work with phenomenal equipment.



Go big. It'll prepare you for the real world, the more competition and diversity you see will become part of you and help you become a versatile grounded tech who can deal with large scale shows. This will also always keep you working with different people and those are great connections to make.

I started in a big pond, then the pond got really small, now it's getting bigger again and I think of all the things my peers taught me vs professors and it's not even close.


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## museav

chris325 said:


> Thus, I'm beginning to branch out, and my main interest at this point is a public midwestern university that doesn't increase tuition for out-of-state students and has a rather strong technical tehatre program.


Think about what you said, you want a state funded school that charges the same for students whose families already help pay for the school via taxes as it does for those whose families pay for schools in another state. Some states may have reciprocity agreements in place but in general there is a valid reason that being out-of-state costs more at public (state and local tax funded) schools.



chris325 said:


> Another related question: How would transferring from 1-2 years of gen ed community college to a major university's a technical theatre program compare to simply spending all four years at said major university? This may end up being my only option, so I'm curious as to how it compares considering the significant cost reduction.


As the old saying goes, there is no free lunch. It will vary significantly based on the two institutions involved but often not all credit will transfer.
It is probably safe to say that it is rarely a direct 1:1 relationship where some number of years or credit hours at a community college will all directly transfer to a major university. This is not a necessarily any negative reflection on the CC, it can simply be the course work being more of an unknown to the University, but I could readily see the relationship potentially being more like two years at a community college equating to one year at the university. But that all depends on the institutions and classes.

In addition, while you may be able to address general education credits, you may have difficulty with courses and credits within your major. A simple example, there may be a series of courses that you have to fulfill for your plan of study with one course being a prerequisite for the next which is a prerequisite for another. If you cannot begin that series until sometime your Sophomore or Junior year then you may have difficulty completing it by the end of your fourth year. You may also find that not every required or desired course is offered every semester or at the times you want and having less time to work with scheduling your classes may start to create conflicts. I personally ran into a class or two where it took several years to find a time when it both was offered and did not conflict with some other critical path course.


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## DGeggatt

I was in the same situation at this time last year. I applied to three schools on the east coast for a lighting design program. University of the Arts in Philly is just starting out but they have a pretty nice program. Emerson is just an obvious choice, I went and toured it and they have INCREDIBLE facilities. I'll be attending Fordham University in New York City this fall for the 4-year LD program, and their program is pretty phenomenal. It's a very small program, only twelve acceded students to the tech track each year. I got accepted to Emerson but didn't go because of location. They may have awesome facilities but the theatre scene in New York is unbeatable compared to Boston. Coming from a person who just did this really consider location because internships in college and job support once you graduate are a huge priority.


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## HornsOverIthaca

Another important factor is distance from home. I'm from Austin TX but I went to school in Ithaca NY. It was a long way from home, but I got the process of leaving home out of the way early. I was really home sick those first few weeks, but the experience was well worth it. Being a professional theatre technician may send you all over the country. It's good to get some away from home experience done.
I don't know if I can suggest Ithaca College theatre to a total stranger. It isn't the best fit for every one but no college is. I can say the professors are very good. A drawback for me was how dated the facility was but it has been renovated recently. The cost was high but thats the way college is today.


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## dbthetd

I would say that "Choose an institution of higher learning not by the quality or newness of its equipment or facilities, but for its faculty and program." is fairly on point. The real red herring here is often facility, in that whiz-bang facility doesn't always make a whiz-bang program. Both times I was a theatre student it was in less than state of the art venues and in some ways I think that actually enhanced the experience.

I would say it really is about the faculty, and to a lesser degree about the classes. Who are they, what have they done, what will be your access, and what are they actually going to offer in terms of education. At this point I don't think I could possibly recommend a program where there isn't an established, specific curriculum they can discuss with you.

With respect to gear, in the more technical specialties you likely do want to be sure you will have some experience on contemporary equipment. So again, having it doesn't mean for sure it is the right place, but different from facility, not having it does make a difference. Keep in mind though that there are many avenues at school to using cool gear. Where I work now we own a good chunk, but we also rent often, and there are other organizations on campus with a good inventory as well. So if the answer to "Do you have the newest shiny thing?" is no, ask about other opportunities to get the exposure before writing them off.

Designing, or more specifically "Another thing--I'm leery of any school where the students design too much." I think this is more about faculty than opportunities. As a design student you want to design, as a technical student you want to engineer and implement, as a manager you want to manage; these are all good and necessary experiences. It's not so much about how often as it is about how prepared and how supported. 

Let's use "working" to catch all disciplines. If you are working a lot, but it starts as an underclassman and the faculty travels often... that may be less desirable than not getting to it until later. If you are working before you've had class prep for the tasks involved that might be less desirable. If faculty aren't in the shops or in the theatres that might be less desirable.

Conversely you also might want to watch out for programs where everything is done by faculty, staff or locals. Whether you design, engineer, or manage you want the opportunity to be the one actually doing it. So when researching, the level of student involvement is as important to research as they level of faculty involvement. I don't think you can make an assessment based solely on the number of opportunities. It's the nature and quality of the opportunity that matters.


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## Parker

chris325 said:


> I did consider U of I for a while, particularly after getting a good look at their theatre program during 2009's Illinois High School Theatre Festival. I also believe that another lighting designer from my school is headed there next year. Unfortunately, much too expensive.
> 
> As for the question about beginning at community college, I think that I may end up working full time for a year or two after high school and then heading to a four year.


 
Chris- I am almost certain that he is going to DePaul now (they had a recent opening) and not the U of I. Also, if you are considering not going to school right away... you need to also consider that most people who claim this as their intent... never end up going back to school... it is a sort of "human nature" thing. Just dont get stung by that same bug!


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## chris325

This was posted when I was under the assumption that he was still going through with his U of I acceptance.

As for the whole idea of working full-time, and then going to college, I think that with enough motivation I could (hopefully) push myself to leave a steady job to go to college. What would also help would be an employer that would possibly invite me back after college - obviously no guarantee, but I've seen it happen. The potential job I've got lined up in technical theatre (specifically, corporate a/v) for the summer could help with this a bit.


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## Pie4Weebl

chris325 said:


> This was posted when I was under the assumption that he was still going through with his U of I acceptance.
> 
> As for the whole idea of working full-time, and then going to college, I think that with enough motivation I could (hopefully) push myself to leave a steady job to go to college. What would also help would be an employer that would possibly invite me back after college - obviously no guarantee, but I've seen it happen. The potential job I've got lined up in technical theatre (specifically, corporate a/v) for the summer could help with this a bit.



You may very well find someone who wants you back after college, I know my summer job did. But you will find it very hard to do that. Are they going to be willing to pay you more when you get the degree? If not (which is the likely outcome) are you going to find wit worth taking off 4 years from work while racking up debt to get one?

I'm not saying it won't work for you, but I think you will probably be better off going into school right as you graduate.


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## chris325

Pie4Weebl said:


> I'm not saying it won't work for you, but I think you will probably be better off going into school right as you graduate.



That would be my complete prefrence, but with costs it simply might not be practical. I'll probably end up going out of state due to the lack of relatively low-cost tech schools in Illinois, which means paying out-of-state tuition at least my first year and room and board/an apartment all four years.

I've looked, and of the five Illinois colleges all are at least 20,000 a year for tuition alone. If it comes out to be cheaper to go to one of those that go out of state I may consider it, but otherwise I'm not sure. DePaul's average financial aid package is more than $20,000 (tuition is $30,000) so it might be possible for me to go there.


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