# Odd Gel Names...



## elite1trek (Nov 20, 2008)

Alright, I heard somewhere that there is a gel from some manufacturer that is named "Lesbian Pink." I searched all my swatchbooks (naturally, I checked Apollo first, because of their creative names) but found nothing.

I don't know how up to date all my books are, but I checked the swatches for the following lines:

Roscolux
Roscolene (very old book)
Supergel (rosco)
Gam
Lee (designer series, I don't know if there is any other)
Apollo

I played with Lee's Swatchball, which is actually a really cool tool, but helped me none.

It was suggested to me that "Lesbian Pink" might actually be a purple of some sort.

Has anybody ever heard of this color? If so, can I get a number and manufacturer for it?

By the way...searching for "Lesbian Pink" on Google brings up relatively inappropriate results, so don't do it at school/work.


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 20, 2008)

Probably another slang term LD's have. I doubt any company uses that as a "real" name.


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## elite1trek (Nov 20, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Probably another slang term LD's have. I doubt any company uses that as a "real" name.



That was my first thought, but the person that was telling me this wasnt really much for slang terms, and the context wouldn't really fit.

I guess I am willing to accept that if there are no other explanations.


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## renegadeblack (Nov 20, 2008)

When I was a freshman in high school, I first learned about bastard amber, our tech director understood the humor and laughed (might I add where the student director called us immature). He then proceeded to call others **** red and bitchin blue.


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## brethughes (Nov 20, 2008)

This may not be the same filter, but I just started working in my theatre, and some of the existing students have a filter they like to use that they refer to as "stripper Pink"

It is Lee 193 (comparable to Rosco 32). Its a very heavily saturated Pink gel, actually quite nice for some of the events we have done.

This may not be "lesbian pink" but if nothing else, it adds another color to your library that is actually very fun and useful.

Bret


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## elite1trek (Nov 20, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> When I was a freshman in high school, I first learned about bastard amber, our tech director understood the humor and laughed (might I add where the student director called us immature). He then proceeded to call others **** red and bitchin blue.




In my searches...I found an Apollo color called "Fatherless Amber." (AP7050) I figured this was a bit of a wink at the Rosco color "Bastard Amber." (R02)


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## Van (Nov 20, 2008)

I think someone is pulling your leg. There is a slang term for Rosco#34 that comes close <in a way> to what you are reffering but it ain't "Lesbian Pink". It would be closer to "Kitty Cat Pink"


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## derekleffew (Nov 20, 2008)

elite1trek, no color has ever been officially named by the manufacturer as Lesbian Pink, including obsolete lines such as Roscogel, Brigham Color, GPC, Cinemoid, Gelatran, and Dura. 

For extra credit, who wants to give the derivation of Bastard Amber and Surprise Pink?


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## elite1trek (Nov 21, 2008)

Well thanks guys...I knew that if it existed yall would find it.


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## waynehoskins (Nov 21, 2008)

A buddy of mine uses the terms Pretend Pink and Why Bother Blue for the no-color colors, and I've heard the similar use of .. um .. sed s/K/T/"Kitty Pink", but in my mind it was for something more saturated like R344.


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## gafftaper (Nov 21, 2008)

For a good time just read the Apollo gel catalog. They have a great sense of humor over there. 

Alexander the Grape
Bluetylicious
Cherry Lewis
Cowboys & Indigo
Hotwings
King Kongo Blue 
...and much much more!


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## Mirrai (Nov 21, 2008)

I know around here Rosco 39 is referred to as titty bar pink.


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## derekleffew (Nov 21, 2008)

Mirrai said:


> I know around here Rosco 39 is referred to as titty bar pink.


An insult to the memory of Mr. Thomas Skelton, possibly the greatest designer of dance lighting of the last century.

gafftaper, how could you forget AP7100? As well as Spanked Pink, Scandalous Scarlet, Pink Pong, Blurple, and Kablueie.

While Apollo's names are certainly humorous, one wonders if "traditional" names such as Flesh Pink, Special Lavender, and Daylight Blue might make ApolloGel be taken more seriously among lighting designers. Perhaps it's an age thing--those raised on Lux and Lee (and later GAM) aren't likely to switch, except for that rare color not available in one of the other three.

Looking at swatchbooks is one thing, funny names or not, but one doesn't get "comfortable" with a color until one has actually used it in a production and "experienced" it on stage.

Still waiting on the orgins of "Illegitimate Amber."


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## gafftaper (Nov 21, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> An insult to the memory of Mr. Thomas Skelton, possibly the greatest designer of dance lighting of the last century...
> While Apollo's names are certainly humorous, one wonders if "traditional" names such as Flesh Pink, Special Lavender, and Daylight Blue might make ApolloGel be taken more seriously among lighting designers. Perhaps it's an age thing--those raised on Lux and Lee (and later GAM) aren't likely to switch, except for that rare color not available in one of the other three.



You've got it big D but you missed the point. Apollo's gel names perfectly reflect the company's overall strategy. Think about what they do: the "Standing O Award", readily available excellent educational materials, the infamous sample kits, and of course the gum. Apollo knows it's going to be very hard to convert designers raised on Lux and Lee so they are working hard to try to steal the next generation of designers. Designers who may not connect "Skelton Exotic Sangria" with that guy their prof talked about in class, but think that "Bluetylicious" is a good pun from a company that is in touch with pop culture.


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## renegadeblack (Nov 21, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> elite1trek, no color has ever been officially named by the manufacturer as Lesbian Pink, including obsolete lines such as Roscogel, Brigham Color, GPC, Cinemoid, Gelatran, and Dura.
> 
> For extra credit, who wants to give the derivation of Bastard Amber and Surprise Pink?



Well, I know the origin of bastard amber. They were mixing a gel and it totally turned out way off from what it was meant to be. They showed it to the director and he loved it and it was kept. They screwed up somewhere in the process and since it was bastardized (in the english is a bastardized language sense), its called bastard amber. As for surprise pink, I figured that its because the gel looks purple but is actully pink.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## derekleffew (Nov 21, 2008)

Correct on both, renegadeblack. I cannot recall the source, but I've read it was Louis Hartmann, David Belasco's Master Electrician, who found the "odd amber." I don't know if it was Rosco, Brigham, or some long-obscure color company who made the original "mistake."

As to Surprise Pink, it also has to do with the fact that it can appear warm or cool, depending on the color it's paired with.

*EDIT* (for posterity):
from http://www.rosco.com/spectrum/index.php/2012/01/spectrum-wavelengths-designer-series-louis-hartmann/ :

> Since [David] Belasco always had a show running on Broadway, [Louis] Hartmann was a regular visitor to Rosco’s gelatine plant on the hunt for new colors that would help enhance the actors, costumes and set pieces on stage. One day he noticed a stack of odd sheets in a corner. He was told that they had been discarded because the amber had been contaminated with some red dye. Hartmann was intrigued and took a sheet for testing. He discovered that the color was actually very flattering on skin tones and on his next visit to Rosco attempted to order some sheets of this interesting new color, which Hartmann referred to as that *“bastard amber you had.”* By then the stack of sheets had been thrown away so Rosco had the challenge of recreating the “accident” for Hartmann and tweaking it to his specifications.
> 
> The accidental color we created for Louis Hartmann would later become Roscogel 02, Bastard Amber and it lives on 90 years later by the same name in the Roscolux and Supergel ranges.


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## lieperjp (Nov 21, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> As to Surprise Pink, it also has to do with the fact that it can appear warm or cool, depending on the color it's paired with.



Can you explain?


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 21, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> Can you explain?



Think about the effects of using two different systems, one with R33 and R51, and the other with R60 and R51. In each system, which color is the cool, and which is the warm?

Derek, I think you have teased me with the story of Bastard Amber, but never actually told me. I do somehow know, or at least have heard, that the story of it being a "mistake batch" is untrue.


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## lieperjp (Nov 21, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Think about the effects of using two different systems, one with R33 and R51, and the other with R60 and R51. In each system, which color is the cool, and which is the warm?



Interesting. I've never thought about it that way before.


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## Pie4Weebl (Nov 21, 2008)

L201 does the same thing and I love it!


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## renegadeblack (Nov 23, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Derek, I think you have teased me with the story of Bastard Amber, but never actually told me. I do somehow know, or at least have heard, that the story of it being a "mistake batch" is untrue.



Really? I've been under the impression that it was merely a mistake all this time.


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## Les (Nov 23, 2008)

Bastard (color)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In theatre lighting, a bastard color refers to a color, typically in a color gel, wherein the predominant color is blended with small amounts of complementary colors; for example, a "bastard orange" gel would produce predominantly orange light with undertones of blue. Bastard colors appear warmer, more neutral, and more natural than pure colors and are used to replicate natural light.


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## Les (Nov 23, 2008)

Salmon"illa", Purplexed, Rhythm & Blue, Rust Assured, Lavender Retriever, Just Peachy, Scandalous Scarlet, Simply Mauvelous, V.I.Pink and Yellow Snow are among my favorite Apollo gel names not already mentioned.


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## derekleffew (Nov 23, 2008)

Les said:


> Bastard (color)
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> In theatre lighting, a bastard color refers to a color, typically in a color gel, wherein the predominant color is blended with small amounts of complementary colors; for example, a "bastard orange" gel would produce predominantly orange light with undertones of blue. Bastard colors appear warmer, more neutral, and more natural than pure colors and are used to replicate natural light.


Absolute garbage definition; one of the worst I've seen. Has anyone ever heard of a "bastard" color other than Bastard Amber? I haven't. Furthermore, it is optically impossible to "produce predominantly orange light with undertones of blue." The author obviously does not understand additive or subtractive mixing of color. Further, "Bastard colors appear warmer, more neutral, and more natural than pure colors" makes no sense.

Please be cautious when referencing Wikipedia, or any other site for that matter. (No offense intended, Les.)


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## lieperjp (Nov 23, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Absolute garbage definition; one of the worst I've seen. Has anyone ever heard of a "bastard" color other than Bastard Amber? I haven't. Furthermore, it is optically impossible to "produce predominantly orange light with undertones of blue." The author obviously does not understand additive or subtractive mixing of color. Further, "Bastard colors appear warmer, more neutral, and more natural than pure colors" makes no sense.
> 
> Please be cautious when referencing Wikipedia, or any other site for that matter. (No offense intended, Les.)



Derek, have you gone and changed this? That's what wikipedia is all about, you know... If you see an incorrect statement, you're supposed to change it...

Afterthought... Ok, you don't _have_ to change it, but it would be nice of you...


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## derekleffew (Nov 23, 2008)

I'll continue my efforts to make ControlBooth's Wiki as complete and accurate as possible. As for the rest of the Internet, they're on their own.

I DID look at the topic of "stagecraft" on Wikipedia and found so many issues, I wouldn't know where to begin.


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## rochem (Nov 23, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I DID look at the topic of "stagecraft" on Wikipedia and found so many issues, I wouldn't know where to begin.



Well, they got at least one thing right. Check out the first link under External Links.


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## lieperjp (Nov 24, 2008)

I wonder who added that, Old Moonraker?


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## gafftaper (Nov 24, 2008)

rochem said:


> Well, they got at least one thing right. Check out the first link under External Links.



Footer did that a couple days ago. After a Wiki discussion in the off topic forum. Kyle's Da MAN!


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## Les (Nov 24, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Absolute garbage definition; one of the worst I've seen. Has anyone ever heard of a "bastard" color other than Bastard Amber? I haven't. Furthermore, it is optically impossible to "produce predominantly orange light with undertones of blue." The author obviously does not understand additive or subtractive mixing of color. Further, "Bastard colors appear warmer, more neutral, and more natural than pure colors" makes no sense.
> 
> Please be cautious when referencing Wikipedia, or any other site for that matter. (No offense intended, Les.)



None taken, derek. The "undertones of blue" did sound a little off to me too, but I thought I'd go ahead and throw that out there.


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## cprted (Nov 25, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Has anyone ever heard of a "bastard" color other than Bastard Amber?


What about Lee779? Bastard Pink.


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## gafftaper (Nov 25, 2008)

Ok, I'll take a stab at it... 

Bastard doesn't just mean "illigitimate". There is a lesser known definition that means "of a kind similar to but inferior to or less typical than some standard". Wood Files come in three different grades of roughness. A Bastard file is one that is half way between the course and medium roughness. It is called bastard because it is cut in a non-standard way. 

So applied to lighting, Bastard amber is much more pastel than a true amber (like R20 and R22). It's an atypical or non-standard variation. Same with Bastard Pink.


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## Dionysus (Dec 11, 2017)

gafftaper said:


> Ok, I'll take a stab at it...
> 
> Bastard doesn't just mean "illigitimate". There is a lesser known definition that means "of a kind similar to but inferior to or less typical than some standard". Wood Files come in three different grades of roughness. A Bastard file is one that is half way between the course and medium roughness. It is called bastard because it is cut in a non-standard way.
> 
> So applied to lighting, Bastard amber is much more pastel than a true amber (like R20 and R22). It's an atypical or non-standard variation. Same with Bastard Pink.



Bastard also means to introduce something foreign or an impurity. (hence all the talk about a bastard child, they are born of something impure)

From the definition:

(of a thing) no longer in its pure or original form; debased.
"a bastard Darwinism"
synonyms: adulterated, alloyed, impure, inferior; ..


I was always told that Bastard Amber was called that because they took "amber" and introduced some other pigment to it or something (a few versions).


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## jtweigandt (Dec 11, 2017)

renegadeblack said:


> Well, I know the origin of bastard amber. They were mixing a gel and it totally turned out way off from what it was meant to be. They showed it to the director and he loved it and it was kept. They screwed up somewhere in the process and since it was bastardized (in the english is a bastardized language sense), its called bastard amber. As for surprise pink, I figured that its because the gel looks purple but is actully pink.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dunno, but I sat in on one of the Disney shows with my then 5 year old grand daughter and probably 100 others around her age.. Looked up at the hang... I would swear Disney was using Little Bastard Amber


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## TheaterEd (Dec 12, 2017)

jtweigandt said:


> Little Bastard Amber



The lesser known friend of Little Orphan Annie.


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## jtweigandt (Dec 12, 2017)

TheaterEd said:


> The lesser known friend of Little Orphan Annie.


I just finished a stint as "Bert Healy" Our orphans were wonderful, and we had a Sandy that sat stage right while annie talked to the cop, Came to Annie on command when the police officer told her to call the dog, and had his own cross unaccompanied in front of the black to buy time for scene change behind. He hit it perfectly every night.. But they were all so cute, the world forgot that Healy even existed... Never work with animals or children..


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