# Fireplace Electric problem



## DuckJordan (Oct 13, 2009)

I have a problem with a fire place we have a 120v plug but i would like not to see any cords going to a place back stage is there anyway other than a generator to duplicate the 120v effect in a cheap and easy way?


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## Footer (Oct 13, 2009)

What kind of effect generator do you have right now that you want to duplicate? If you want to go wireless, your options are going to be pretty limited. 

Candle and Lantern Recipes


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## DuckJordan (Oct 13, 2009)

Footer said:


> What kind of effect generator do you have right now that you want to duplicate? If you want to go wireless, your options are going to be pretty limited.
> 
> Candle and Lantern Recipes



we actually have the pre-built fireplace that has a 120v standard house plug (this was at one point a Halloween decoration that we changed into a very inexpensive yet realistic flame image) I need to find a way to make the 120v a battery operated source so that it can be wheeled on and off stage and turned on by an actor flipping a switch. Putting the switch in there is easy what i haven't figured out how to do is make a battery that can either be jumped up on the voltage scale or daisy chain batteries together (realistically). unfortunately it is a high school production so we do not have a budget (meaning almost no spending money except from out of my pocket).


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## FatherMurphy (Oct 13, 2009)

A car battery and an cigarette-lighter-plug inverter come to mind - You don't just need voltage, you probably need to convert from DC to AC, especially if there's any sort of motor inside the effect.

Talk to the auto shop teacher to help you with this - He (or she) can help you make certain it is wired correctly. The 12 volt side in particular needs attention, since amperage increases as voltage decreases, and choosing the right size wire becomes important. You'll also need to know how to safely recharge the battery between shows.


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## kicknargel (Oct 13, 2009)

A little background: To use a car battery you need to convert direct current (CD) to alternating current (AC) AND to convert 12V to 120V. So daisy chaining batteries won't work, because you'd still have DC. So as Father Murphy said, what you'd need is a power inverter, available at automotive places. They come rated for different wattages, so you'd need to know the draw of your unit. The hook-up should be easy--most I've seen come with little "jumper cables" that will clip onto the battery, and in turn have an eddison outlet.

Be careful: a car battery has enough juice to hurt you. Plus, if it tips or leaks or whatever it can be real dangerous.

Nick Kargel
www.youwantwhatproductions.com


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## DuckJordan (Oct 14, 2009)

thank you for the info and next time guys it helps if you don't talk down to people. I took no offense in it but I have been working in both an auto shop and in theatrical productions for four years. (sorry for the defensive stance) I will look around and thanks for the idea i completely forgot about the power inverters for cars.


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## kiwitechgirl (Oct 14, 2009)

An inverter is definitely the way to go - we've used them extensively for the last few years and one musical we had two keyboards on trucks powered off inverters - worked perfectly for three months! As kicknargel said, all ours have "jumper" leads which you hook up to the battery and then just a regular plug which outputs AC at the correct voltage (it's 240v here.....). We do use deep-cycle electric wheelchair batteries rather than car batteries though - they just seem to last longer under repeated charging/discharging.


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## DuckJordan (Oct 14, 2009)

i agree but when our auto department has a wall of old batteries there really isn't too big of an issue of making batteries last since students replace batteries and are too lazy to take them into the recycle center. i will be asking around to some of past tech crews and see if any of them have a "Carputer" they aren't needing hooked up for 2 weeks


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## cdub260 (Oct 14, 2009)

This is what you need to pull this off, a 12 volt DC to 120 volt AC power inverter.


Mcmaster/Carr and Grainger both carry them.


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## FatherMurphy (Oct 14, 2009)

DuckJordan said:


> thank you for the info and next time guys it helps if you don't talk down to people. I took no offense in it but I have been working in both an auto shop and in theatrical productions for four years.



My apologies if you thought I was 'talking down', it certainly wasn't my intention to insult you. Your original post, which was all I had in front of me, included the information that you were a high school student who was uncertain about how battery voltages add up in series and parallel configurations. The Senior Team of moderators prefers that we're very careful how we answer questions from less-experienced members, especially if they're asking about rigging or electricity, due to the higher potential for injuries, thus the 'ask a teacher' elements of my response.

Again, no offense intended.


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## Van (Oct 14, 2009)

FatherMurphy said:


> My apologies if you thought I was 'talking down', it certainly wasn't my intention to insult you. Your original post, which was all I had in front of me, included the information that you were a high school student who was uncertain about how battery voltages add up in series and parallel configurations. The Senior Team of moderators prefers that we're very careful how we answer questions from less-experienced members, especially if they're asking about rigging or electricity, due to the higher potential for injuries, thus the 'ask a teacher' elements of my response.
> 
> Again, no offense intended.


 
Father Murphy was operating completely within the code of conduct set up here on CB. Since we deal with a HUGE cross section of the industry and since we often deal with eager students that have little to no experience we often include the Consult a Teacher / Advisor / Qualified Person in our responses. Personally I felt his response would have been appropriate if he had known he was talking to a Drama teacher with a MA in Theater. 
Honestly, if I had caught the thread earlier I might have simply responded with, " You modified a UL list product, any further modification opens you extreme liability issues and therefore is ill advised."


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## Cashwalker (Oct 14, 2009)

Inverters typically have low-battery shutoff, sometimes with beeping to warn you of the fact.

I would suggest a computer UPS, as it's self-contained, but that too would have some sort of audible alarm condition telling you the power "failed".

In either case disabling the speaker or piezo buzzer would be necessary, which is obviously something no one would do because working on the internal electronics is only for qualified service technicians.

The fireplace effect my theater has is an orange colored bulb, and a motor that rotates a cylinder of foil and tassels, covered by a molded colored plastic that provides the burning coals look. The foil reflects the light in different directions, and the tassels flick the plastic to make the crackling sound. It runs off of 120V AC, but the motor and lamp could easily be swapped for DC-equivalent units, for very little money.


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## DuckJordan (Oct 14, 2009)

FatherMurphy said:


> Again, no offense intended.


 none taken i was just stating how i felt as a member asking for help. and it may have just been my extreme tiredness that kicked in last night. please excuse my hostilities.


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## DuckJordan (Oct 14, 2009)

Cashwalker said:


> Inverters typically have low-battery shutoff, sometimes with beeping to warn you of the fact.
> 
> I would suggest a computer UPS, as it's self-contained, but that too would have some sort of audible alarm condition telling you the power "failed".
> 
> ...



of course no one without qualifications would cut wires... especially when you could take it to someone who in sioux falls will charge another $120 just to take it apart... actually i would take it to my good friend (Name excluded) who went through college and military schooling for electrical engineering. as far as the effect goes there is no real fire as we are a public high school and cannot use any kind of smoke effects (they use the excuse of the small amount of smoke that hits the smoke detectors 120 feet up in the fly tower will set it off... it may be a bunch of non-sense or it could be plausible but either way we are using a motor with a peice of plastic that changes the orange light to look like it is flickering behind some fake logs. that is run off 120v ac


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## kicknargel (Oct 14, 2009)

FatherMurphy said:


> My apologies if you thought I was 'talking down', it certainly wasn't my intention to insult you. Your original post, which was all I had in front of me, included the information that you were a high school student who was uncertain about how battery voltages add up in series and parallel configurations. The Senior Team of moderators prefers that we're very careful how we answer questions from less-experienced members, especially if they're asking about rigging or electricity, due to the higher potential for injuries, thus the 'ask a teacher' elements of my response.
> 
> Again, no offense intended.



ibid. I like to be thorough and stuff.


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