# Controlling an Ion from a laptop



## rochem (Nov 27, 2008)

A local school in my area just got a new Ion this year, which is a huge step up from the two-scene preset board they've been using. I spent a lot of time over there helping them to learn the board, and was asked something that I wasn't sure of. Their "booth" isn't much of a booth at all, it's actually just a door that swings open from a second story hallway that runs along the front wall of the theatre (so where a normal booth would be, except it's just an opening into a hallway). Because of this, there is a relatively small shelf where they put the board, and unfortunately the board is too large to allow the door to close. During tech week, they just boarded it up during the school day, but since it's a fire door they need to get the board out of storage and set it all up every time they need to use it, and put it all back away when they're finished.

Is there a way to run the Ion console from a laptop instead of using the whole board? They also got ETCNet installed so they have data ports all over the theatre. Would they be able to plug a laptop into one of these ports and use the offline software to control the dimmers? It seems feasible, since to use the board you simply need to run the cable from the wall port to the board, so why wouldn't a laptop work as well? Obviously this is not a good idea for large shows, but for rehearsals of smaller things, such as band and chorus concert rehearsals, this would be a huge time saver.

Wow that went on a lot longer than I thought it would. Ideas, anyone?


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## willbb123 (Nov 27, 2008)

Im pretty sure the answer is no. The Offline editor is well.. used to edit the show files off line away from the desk. I use the Expression offline editor alot at home when I want to make major changes and dont want to be sitting at the theater.


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## gafftaper (Nov 27, 2008)

Have to wait for an answer from one of the ETC people to know for sure. However, with the new generation of Strand consoles the answer is yes. I can actually run cues wirelessly from my laptop in the parking lot. Since both systems are similar in a a lot of other ways I would be hopeful that it's possible. If not it's definitely something for them to think about for future software upgrades.


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## rochem (Nov 27, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Have to wait for an answer from one of the ETC people to know for sure. However, with the new generation of Strand consoles the answer is yes. I can actually run cues wirelessly from my laptop in the parking lot. Since both systems are similar in a a lot of other ways I would be hopeful that it's possible. If not it's definitely something for them to think about for future software upgrades.



That's where I got the idea. I had heard that the new Strand consoles would literally allow you to run a show from the local McDonalds or something, so I reasoned that ETC might not be too far behind.


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## derekleffew (Nov 27, 2008)

rochem said:


> ...Is there a way to run the Ion console from a laptop instead of using the whole board? ...Would they be able to plug a laptop into one of these ports and use the offline software to control the dimmers? ...


Are you asking if it's possible to: 
a) use a laptop on the network in *addition* to the Ion?, (see this post) or 
b) use a laptop on the network *instead* of the Ion?, or
c) do something else entirely?


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## TheDonkey (Nov 27, 2008)

He wants to use the laptop to control the Ion so he doesn't have to take it out from under some large, heavy locking area.

So during rehearsals, instead of having to lift the whole board out and mvoe it the working space, he can just turn it on, connect with a laptop and control it liek that. Then lift it out for actual performances.


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## SteveB (Nov 27, 2008)

The Ion isn't that much bigger then a laptop, so I'd skip the laptop as client process and just move the Ion around, with a secure storage after use.

FWIW, Eos/Ion Off-Line can serve as a remote via a laptop and a client dongle. If you got one with the purchase. Without the dongle, no remote, but you can search the manual and ETC website for the particulars.

SB


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 27, 2008)

If you have the client dongle, which you get by registering your shiny new console with ETC, then you can control the Ion from a laptop. 

We use a tablet PC as our RFU. With an X-Keys keypad and it's passable as a remote desk. Some of the virtual controls, virtual encoders in particular, are friendlier on the client console.

There are some issues with ACN over wireless but it can be made to work. YMMV.


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## jmabray (Nov 27, 2008)

The definite answer is yes, the a laptop could log on to the ION, with client software and dongle installed, and control the rig.

You can set the laptop up as the same user as the desk itself, or actually set them up as different users so that one may be doing something different from the other. If they have fader wings, they actually can plug the fader wing in to the laptop and have it control lighting levels as well as the actual laptop. However, the ION does have to be on and controlling the system for this to work - meaning you cant actually get Net2/3 or DMX levels out of the laptop by itself. It is only logging on to the desk. The desk is still doing the processing and controlling and storage of the show file, etc.

You do need a Client Dongle plugged into the laptop to make this work though. At the current time, if you register your desk with ETC, they will send you one for free. They ask for this information only so that they can send you notifications when software updates are available for you desk and the like - they don't sell that information to anyone else - nor do they themselves spam you with anything. It's a 500 dollar value that they are giving away so that you are motivated to keep your desk's software current.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks!


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## Sayen (Nov 27, 2008)

Does the Ion support this wirelessly, or do you need a network connection?


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 27, 2008)

Ion does not have a wireless router integrated into their console, if that's what you're asking. 

Ion consoles can be connected to a wireless router, or any ethernet network that incorporates a wireless router. ETC still has some work to do to make their communication protocol more robust in the wireless world.

My experience is that once our tablet PC has successfully synchronized the show, communication is reliable, but getting through the synchronization phase is hit-or-miss.


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## derekleffew (Nov 27, 2008)

Sayen said:


> Does the Ion support this wirelessly, or do you need a network connection?


From the post referenced above:

avalentino said:


> ...Some venues are using wireless now. Depending on your wireless network, it may or may not currently work. But because our transmission speeds were at a high enough rate that it could cause a wireless network to fail, we were advising people not to do it.
> 
> But the transmission speeds have been addressed in 1.4 to keep a wireless network from tipping over.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I just felt it needed to be repeated: *Wireless *(from any manufacturer)* is NOT APPROPRIATE for a show critical situation.*


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## rochem (Nov 27, 2008)

Wow thanks for all the replies! So let me see if I got this straight. Right now, to set up their Ion (with 2x20 fader wing and 2 monitors) they have to pull it out of storage, but the only thing they need to do to get it working is run an ethernet cable from the nearby ETCNet wall port. So, as soon as they register the Ion, ETC will send them the dongle for free, and then he would be able to run the ethernet cable from the wall into a laptop and, using the dongle, control all functions of the board. Am I right? 

Obviously this is only for rehearsals or very small shows, but with just one guy getting everything out of storage, by the time you lug all of it the considerable distance up to the booth, secure everything and plug it all in, there's about 20-25 minutes gone. Slightly less if there's another person, but it's still a long time. And there is no intention of doing this wirelessly, it would be plugged into the ethernet wall port.


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## gafftaper (Nov 27, 2008)

If I'm reading this right you need to have the Ion plugged into the network and turned on for the remote laptop to work. However where it's located at doesn't matter, so get a long ethernet cable and leave it stored in it's closet. With my Strand system you actually see a log in screen where you tell the laptop which IP address on the network to log into to access the main console. Sounds like he's talking about the same thing. 


Follow up question: With the Strand setup the magic USB dongle is always located inside the main console acting as the "key" to the system. If I open up the console and remove the dongle and plug it into another computer (either hardwired or wirelessly on the network) then that other computer becomes the "heart" of the lighting system. I can turn off the console and the other computer can run the whole system on it's own as long as it has the Dongle. Does ETC's system work like that or is the dongle there to allow access to log onto the Ion?


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## derekleffew (Nov 27, 2008)

rochem said:


> ...Right now, to set up their Ion ... the only thing they need to do to get it working is run an ethernet cable from the nearby ETCNet wall port. ... and then he would be able to run the ethernet cable from the wall into a laptop and, using the dongle, control all functions of the board. Am I right? ...


It sounds to me like you're still missing a key component. Q: Where does the Ion's Ethernet cable plug in?*

*A: To an (ETC-approved) Ethernet switch. The laptop with the client-dongle, must still log-on to the Ion which must be, somewhere, on the ETCnet3 network.

ETC folks: Where's that illustrative/informative riser diagram when one needs it?



gafftaper said:


> ... Does ETC's system work like that or is the dongle there to allow access to log onto the Ion?


Seems as though Strand and ETC have two different approaches. Strand's dongle is acting as a computer->StrandNet gateway. ETC's dongle is to prevent unauthorized use of the ETCnet. Not saying one is more valid than the other.


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## SteveB (Nov 27, 2008)

rochem said:


> run the ethernet cable from the wall into a laptop and, using the dongle, control all functions of the board. Am I right?
> .



Well..... No, you cannot 'easily" control ALL functions from the laptop.

Obviously, the laptop uses keyboard shortcuts and a mouse/trackpad to access console functions. It cannot access every console function nor is a laptop as ergonomic and easy to use as the actual console. and there's the rub. Is the user going to use the Laptop as Ion as a basic "Channel 1 thru 5 @ Full, Record Q 1, Time 5" memory console. Or will there be other requirements and or uses that the laptop is not going to do well or at all ?, like can you save to the HD from the laptop ?. 

As a practical matter and not caring about whether it will, or how to configure the laptop as a client, I would simply just setup and run the Ion instead of bothering with the laptop. Remember that an Ion is 18" x 18", so it's not a whole lot bigger then a laptop and gives you all the function of the console, instead of having to discover what functions the laptop won't do.

This, mind you from a user of an Emphasis system that allows a laptop to function as a console remote, thus I have some experience with it, and echoing Derek's cautionary post - do not run a show this way !.

Steve B.


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## jmabray (Nov 27, 2008)

A few notes here:

1) YES, you absolutely have to have the ION plugged in and turned on and hooked up to the network. The Laptop does not directly control anything but the console. The console then controls the rig.

2) Derek, Steve and others are right. This really isn't the best way to control the console. Can you get to the functions of the desk? Yes, but it's through keyboard shortcuts and mouse clicks - not at all the most effective user interface - especially when compared to the cosole itself. Whatever time you may save in setting up the laptop vs the desk, you would eventually lose over the course of programming the show.

As for the ETC consoles having an internal dongle like the Strand desks - I am going to leave that one up to those who know more than I do about it.


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## Sayen (Nov 27, 2008)

Just as a thought for the original post - has the school considered using a portable road case, and setting up a couple of tables in the auditorium? My booth has horrible acoustics and visual problems, so typically the only time it gets used is when we have a rental. I run my shows from a couple of tables to the side of the room. My program has a separate audio console (don't typically need much for just live theater) and lighting console in nice road cases. Pull them out of storage, set them on the table, and fire them up. You don't need the road case, I just like the added protection and convenience.


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## rochem (Nov 27, 2008)

It's not the size of the Ion that's the concern. The place where the board goes is big enough to hold it without a doubt. However, as I said before, it's located at the back of the auditorium, and the "booth" is really just a door that swings in from the hallway. While the board can fit, the door cannot be opened or closed while the monitors and board are set up. And since this mounting area is on a ledge, the monitors need to be screwed into the platform to ensure that they won't fall. Since the door must remain closed whenever it's not being used (it's a fire door), the monitors and board need to be removed from the space every time they finish using them for the day. During tech week, they just screwed a large piece of wood over the opening to prevent students from messing with it, but obviously wood does not work too well for a fire door, so that's not an option for other than tech week.

In case I didn't mention, this is a local high school auditorium, and as such they are frequently rented out by outside groups to use the space, as well as band and chorus concerts and such. All of these groups have at least one rehearsal, and most will use one main lighting look and rarely, if ever, vary from that throughout the show. So for example, say the band has a concert in the theatre tomorrow and their rehearsal is tonight. It really isn't a good use of time for the lighting person to spend 30 minutes setting up the board, only to activate one cue and then sit there for the rest of the night. In this case, it would seem much easier to just plug in a laptop and do this. Since there's no programming going on or anything and no cue changes even, it could definitely be done.

Obviously during a performance, or in rehearsals for a more involved show, the board would be used. The main question was to cut down on setup time during these rehearsals. On average, I'd say they have at least one of these type of rehearsals per week (lots of groups use this theatre). If you could cut a whole hour of work off of those (30 min to set up, 30 to tear down) then I would definitely think that that would be worth it. But for shows and such, the actual board would obviously be used.

Having said all that, I didn't realize the board would still need to be plugged in. That's slightly more annoying. Since it's a high school auditorium, it needs to be kept in a safe place free from any people who might pass through, which unfortunately is a good distance away in a closet. However, the road case idea might be worth looking into. 

Thanks for all the replies, I'll pass along the information.


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## gafftaper (Nov 28, 2008)

rochem said:


> Since the door must remain closed whenever it's not being used (it's a fire door), the monitors and board need to be removed from the space every time they finish using them for the day. During tech week, they just screwed a large piece of wood over the opening to prevent students from messing with it, but obviously wood does not work too well for a fire door, so that's not an option for other than tech week.



:shock: Hold on Rochem... the schools policy is *"We only block the fire exit when people are INSIDE the theater!?!?"* In the tradition of the Iriquois theater do they lock people in the balcony to prevent them from sneaking into the better seats too? 

You know that's not only a terrible violation of fire regulations it's the kind of thing that gets lots of people killed in emergencies. Has this procedure been approved by the local Fire Marshal? First of all, I would hate to see a bunch of people get killed in a fire. Secondly, I would hate to see the fire marshal show up for an inspection shortly before a show and shut the place down. Or what if any fire fighter in town comes to any show, sees the emergency exit blocked and reports it. If I came to a show at that theater I would think, "If this place blocks a fire exit during shows, what other dangerous things are they doing that I can't see? I want my money back, I'm getting out of here immediately, and I'm calling the fire Marshal in the morning." 

You should talk with the people at the school about a safe solution to this situation immediately. Pull out a few seats in the back of the theater. Build a nice sturdy cabinet bolted to the floor with a top that flips open and run lights from there. Maybe put it up on a platform to isolate it a bit. Or you could set up the console backstage and set up a camera in the house and let the technician work with a monitor. Unless the Fire Marshall has seen and approved what they are doing (which I seriously doubt) the current situation is NOT acceptable and should be stopped immediately. It only takes one little tiny spark...


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## derekleffew (Nov 28, 2008)

gaff: [user]rochem[/user] said "fire DOOR" as in a one or two-hour rated door meant to contain or prevent the spread of a fire, not "fire EXIT" for the purpose of audience egress in an evacuation. However, he's still most likely violating life-safety codes, so I agree with the rest of what you have said.


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## rochem (Nov 28, 2008)

Derek's right for the most part. No it's definitely not designed or even usable as a fire EXIT, mostly because its about 20 feet above the floor level. It's actually mandated by the fire marshall that the door remain closed whenever not in use, or so I'm told (it's not my theatre so I may be a bit fuzzy on the details). I'm not sure if Fire Door is the correct term, but it's designed to prevent the spread of fire. It's a big solid steel window with a swinging door that opens up to allow a view into the theatre. In the event of a fire, it's designed to prevent the spread of the fire either into or out of the theatre. But don't worry, it has absolutely no use as a fire EXIT.


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## derekleffew (Nov 28, 2008)

Ever see a projection booth in an old movie house? The filmstock, cellulose nitrate, was extremely flammable. Thus all booth windows had guillotine doors on fusible links that would drop if the temperature rose. The windows are small in order to contain the light leaks from the projectors.

In this picture (courtesy of Projection Booth : Belasco Theater on eecue.com : Dave Bullock / eecue), the doors and rigging have been removed, but the tracks remain.


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## gafftaper (Nov 28, 2008)

Glad to hear it Rochem. 

Derek's picture reminds me of the high school I taught at. It had a 60's modified version of a projection booth. It was about 20' long and 8' wide. All cinderblock walls. There were two holes that were about 3'x3' with locking hinged metal doors.
Then there were four small projection holes about 1'x1'. That was it. We had no way to get front light in the theater so I purchased 4 S4 10 degrees and mounted them in the booth shooting out of the projection holes. It got warm in the booth during a show. Ahh the bad old days.


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## venuetech (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok if i am reading this right, the real problem is that the door swings the wrong way. the swing path takes up any usable space. Can the door be rehung to swing out? if so could the ion then remain in place pluged in and ready to go?


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## venuetech (Nov 28, 2008)

the other question is when the system set up and in operation, can the "Fire Door" be closed in the event of an emergency?


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## rochem (Nov 28, 2008)

venuetech said:


> the other question is when the system set up and in operation, can the "Fire Door" be closed in the event of an emergency?



This isn't as nice as we would like it to be, but unfortunately it's the only way. Technically, the door could not be closed as it currently is in an emergency. In a real emergency, it would probably take about 30-45 seconds before the fire door could be pulled shut. The board and monitors rest on a ledge that runs the entire width of the theatre, so the whole thing would need to be thrown onto the ledge just to the left of the door and then it could close freely. This is not suitable for normal use since it would be very hard on the board, but during an actual emergency that is probably the best way to do it.


venuetech said:


> Ok if i am reading this right, the real problem is that the door swings the wrong way. the swing path takes up any usable space. Can the door be rehung to swing out? if so could the ion then remain in place pluged in and ready to go?



This is what seems to be the best option right now. However, like everything else in a school, it takes considerable time before anything will happen. One possibility is as follows: at the next school board meeting, the principal will present a proposal to the board, who will then create a subcommittee devoted to analyzing the relative advantages and disadvantages of rehanging the door. After a 12-18 month experimental period, they will present their findings to the board in the form of very colorful and impossible-to-read graphs on poster board, which may or may not be supplemented by old men speaking in monotone voices. Shortly thereafter, the board will call for a vote as to the future of the rehanging of the door proposal, after which the funds for said rehanging will have to be obtained. Most likely, this will cause for a raised yearly budget for the district, which will then need to be presented to voters as the new budget for the next year. After this is voted down by voters, the committee will continue to debate long and hard to find a method of rehanging the door which would not involve a raise in taxes. Of course by this time we will all be long gone and may well be enjoying senior discounts at the movies, while we laugh over the continued debate of the relative advantages and disadvantages of rehanging said door in said location. They will never realize that two high-schoolers, a power drill and a screwdriver would be able to do the job at no charge and in about 90 seconds.

Alas, the wonders of the public school system.


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## photoatdv (Nov 28, 2008)

rochem said:


> This isn't as nice as we would like it to be, but unfortunately it's the only way. Technically, the door could not be closed as it currently is in an emergency. In a real emergency, it would probably take about 30-45 seconds before the fire door could be pulled shut. The board and monitors rest on a ledge that runs the entire width of the theatre, so the whole thing would need to be thrown onto the ledge just to the left of the door and then it could close freely. This is not suitable for normal use since it would be very hard on the board, but during an actual emergency that is probably the best way to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Exactly! Would anyone notice/care if you did just that?


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## bdkdesigns (Nov 29, 2008)

One thing that I feel needs to be pointed out: The Client Dongle on a laptop only works with Windows based laptops, there is not support (yet) for Macs. 

Because of this, I'm not sure about Sayen's question. I'm sure it could be possible by hooking up a wireless router somewhere along the line, but the Mac limitiations hasn't allowed me to explore this yet. We have figured out how to control SFX wirelessly even on a Mac, so I'm sure we will be trying things out when ETC releases Mac Client Control.


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## venuetech (Nov 29, 2008)

Well it aint never going to get fixed if you don't tell anybody about it!

Look this is a safety and security issue. 

The door must be fully operational for the safety of the building occupants. 
Security is a issue as the control board and ledge area may be left open when the operator needs to go to the restroom, or called onstage to help with something

I would venture to say that the school board had to approve the purchase of the ION. those board members are going to want that device secured from theft and vandalism, and expect it to be in operational condition. You are just trying to make the school board happy.

Start with the school principal. ask that he put in a work order to the maintaince dept. request that it have a safety priority. Maintaince and operations usually will want to know why safety is at issue, so you will need to explain things to the principal. Take some photos and write up a brief description of the problem. (school districts LOVE documentation)


Likely this project could not be done when school is in session. But it could happen easily over spring break or during the summer. it is very likely that the M&O dept. has a staff that does nothing but deal with doors and locks. they could likely change it very easily. They would be very upset if they had to come in and "Fix" a students handy work. So try to keep these guys on your side.

Hey you are helping the students learn to work in a safe and secure environment. As a volunteer in the school the staff and administration should respect your opinions.

If you can find the right buttons to push, it will happen. 

If they don't know its a problem, it wont get fixed.


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## gafftaper (Nov 29, 2008)

Even if it isn't an emergency exit problem. My vote is to take out a few seats, build a platform with a locking cabinet and install that thing once and for all. Students could probably build it and it wouldn't cost much.


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## rochem (Nov 30, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Even if it isn't an emergency exit problem. My vote is to take out a few seats, build a platform with a locking cabinet and install that thing once and for all. Students could probably build it and it wouldn't cost much.



I'm not really looking for a permanent solution really, unless we can find one that works better. I think the original plan was to get the district to rehang the door, or enlarge the platform that the board rests on. In the original post, I was more looking for a temporary solution (a few months or so) for the time that it would take to get these changes made. Thanks for the ideas though, I'll run some this by them next time I'm over at that school.


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## wakkoroti (Dec 4, 2008)

Except for running on Parallels of course - which works perfectly fine.


bdkdesigns said:


> One thing that I feel needs to be pointed out: The Client Dongle on a laptop only works with Windows based laptops, there is not support (yet) for Macs. .


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