# Adapters



## derekleffew (Feb 18, 2008)

What purpose do these two pictured adapters serve and what are their proper names?


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## deadlygopher (Feb 18, 2008)

Perhaps to surprise someone on headset?


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## avkid (Feb 18, 2008)

It looks like you have a NEMA L22-30R to a 5 pin XLR connector on a 22 AWG DMX Cable with 120ohm impedance.

As for why, I have no clue.
Some funny power supply maybe?


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## mbenonis (Feb 18, 2008)

Pickle to DMX adaptor? That, or a special cable used on old light boards to, um, remove them from service.

Either way, kinda sketchy.


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## soundlight (Feb 18, 2008)

mbenonis said:


> Pickle to DMX adaptor? That, or a special cable used on old light boards to, um, remove them from service.
> 
> Either way, kinda sketchy.



Kinda what I was thinking...either a chainmotor control adapter of some sort (or, of course, a console decommissioner)


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## Charc (Feb 18, 2008)

Pickle to data... hmm... that sounds interesting. I can't quite differentiate if that is MIDI or 5-Pin, presumably for DMX. If it's the latter, I'll stand to the side of whatever that chain motor is lifting!


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## Charc (Feb 18, 2008)

Here is another question:

Presuming it is a pickle adaptor, what is the operating voltage of said pickle? I'm thinking perhaps you have a lot of spare 5-Pin data cable (intended for data distribution to hundreds of movers) and the cheapest/easiest/lightest way for you to extend the range of your pickle is to run the low voltage signal through a 5pin data line?


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## ship (Feb 18, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> What purpose do these two pictured adapters serve and what are their proper names?
> 
> > Confuse, comfound and endanger people plus lighting systems.
> >
> ...


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## soundlight (Feb 19, 2008)

ship said:


> Which of the two left or right in the photo is more dangerous to people?



The one on the right, you could actually connect it to a cable from a PD, and then any splitters or controllers or opto-isos to protect said controllers would be fried.


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## Charc (Feb 19, 2008)

soundlight said:


> The one on the right, you could actually connect it to a cable from a PD, and then any splitters or controllers or opto-isos to protect said controllers would be fried.



Soundlight, is that more dangerous to people? (Not trying to nitpick, I honestly don't know the answer, but you seem to be referring to gear, where as Ship refers to health and safety.)


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## soundlight (Feb 19, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Soundlight, is that more dangerous to people? (Not trying to nitpick, I honestly don't know the answer, but you seem to be referring to gear, where as Ship refers to health and safety.)



Would you like to be operating a console or connecting a cable to a splitter when that kinda power hits it through the DMX connection?


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## Charc (Feb 19, 2008)

soundlight said:


> Would you like to be operating a console or connecting a cable to a splitter when that kinda power hits it through the DMX connection?



I don't know!


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## soundman (Feb 19, 2008)

To fuel the flames It could not be a pickle connector, or at least not one I have dealt with, no need for five pins. Why you would need to adapt 30 amps of 3 phase to and from 5 pin XLR is a question I am not sure I want the answer to. 

The only thing I can thing of is some long single run where they wanted heavier gauge cable for some reason instead of using an opto or a repeater but that would make sence as it is not twisted. whatever the reason it better be good as it would cost about 60 bucks in parts to make.


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## Chris15 (Feb 19, 2008)

The only possible legitimate use I can see for these is as a test adaptor, such that one can test one's 5 pin power cable with a dmx cable tester...

The cable is too thin for any sort of power and to use power cable for any sort of data would be asking for trouble...


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## porkchop (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm gonna have to say that it is actually a NEMA L21-30R because if you look at the female side it looks like the smallest pin is opposite the "bent" one male side is indistinguishable.

link http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/H22.pdf

as for charc's question about load. the NEMA L21-30R connector is rated at:
30 Amps, and 3 phase power with 120V on each leg.
I did find a note about it being specifically made for unbalanced loads on the legs. 

If the cable is indeed 22 AWG DMX Cable, which I see no reason to question the ratings were actually a bit hard to find but the most constant comes from AMDJ and they rater there 5 pin DMX at 2.1 Amps per conductor @ 25 degrees C.

Obviously if for some reason you did use this thats is your weak point.


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## nrcafootball68 (Feb 19, 2008)

ship said:


> Confuse, comfound and endanger people plus lighting systems.
> Danger Will Robinson Male &
> Danger Will Robinson Female
> Which of the two left or right in the photo is more dangerous to people?



The one on the left is more dangerous to people, because they could touch the pins while it is live. 

And i have no clue what they're for. I've see power adapters for powered speakers similar to this, but those wouldn't be 3-phase.


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## Charc (Feb 20, 2008)

porkchop said:


> I'm gonna have to say that it is actually a NEMA L21-30R because if you look at the female side it looks like the smallest pin is opposite the "bent" one male side is indistinguishable.
> link http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/H22.pdf
> as for charc's question about load. the NEMA L21-30R connector is rated at:
> 30 Amps, and 3 phase power with 120V on each leg.
> ...



That's interesting to point out Bret, and gave me an excuse to stare at connectors I've never seen in person. (It happens a lot.)

From my quick research it looks like L20-30R and L21-30R are nearly identical. The biggest difference is that L20-30R is 4 conductor (no ground?) while it appears that L21-30R is 5 conductor, adding a ground pin in the center. Based on that, and looking back at Derek's pics it appears to be L21-30R

Reference:
L20-30R:


L21-30R:


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## porkchop (Feb 20, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> From my quick research it looks like L20-30R and L21-30R are nearly identical. The biggest difference is that L20-30R is 4 conductor (no ground?) while it appears that L21-30R is 5 conductor



Visually they similar but if you look up the L20-30R you'll see it's for 347-600 VOLT 30 AMP 3 phase power. So you're looking at a TON more voltage going through the line, also if I had to venture a guess I'd say with the increased voltage and the lack of a ground pin I'd say you need loads on the legs that are a lot closer to being balanced. Someone will probably call me out on that but that's what my logical brain tells me is the case.


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## TimMiller (Feb 21, 2008)

My bet is Chain counters. Many chain counters use 5 pin cable, i'm betting they are just adapting it over so they can run it down the motor control cable. I have seen some pickles wired with L20-30 and some L21-30.


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## Chris15 (Feb 21, 2008)

nrcafootball68 said:


> The one on the left is more dangerous to people, because they could touch the pins while it is live.
> 
> And i have no clue what they're for. I've see power adapters for powered speakers similar to this, but those wouldn't be 3-phase.



Please justify your statement of live pins being accessible with the adaptor on the left...

I would seriously hope that the only connectors one would see for power, be it for a powered speaker or whatever if not a normal wall sort of connector would be powercon, IEC or Cannon LNE.


porkchop said:


> Visually they similar but if you look up the L20-30R you'll see it's for 347-600 VOLT 30 AMP 3 phase power. So you're looking at a TON more voltage going through the line, also if I had to venture a guess I'd say with the increased voltage and the lack of a ground pin I'd say you need loads on the legs that are a lot closer to being balanced. Someone will probably call me out on that but that's what my logical brain tells me is the case.



Yep, I'm going to call you out on that one. Under normal circumstances, there should be no load on an Earth / ground pin. Now what most people tend to assume is that a 4 pin three phase connector has no Earth. Now at least down here, WRONG. It has no neutral, but definitely has an Earth connection. This "L20-30R" appears to be something which may be suitable for Australian three phase supply, because there are 415V RMS between phases...

Oh and load balancing has bugger all to do with voltage, in fact a higher voltage will lead to less current on all conductors assuming stuff was designed for that higher voltage... I = V/R.

4 pin three phase exists for a] large heating / cooking appliances - where the load will always be even on all three phases b] three phase motors and appliances with these incorporated into them, large cooling devices, bowling green mowers, etc. Bar automation and air con, it has, in my opinion, no place in our industry.

Do the states not use 6 pin Wieland for motor cable?


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## porkchop (Feb 21, 2008)

I know voltage and load balancing have nothing to do with each other. What i found gave me the voltage ratings and that the lower voltage connector just so happened to be made for unbalanced loads. My thought process was that since theres a ground and a neutral on one and only one on the other (didn't know which then now I do) theres less of an ability to handle unbalanced loads.


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## derekleffew (Feb 21, 2008)

Chris15 said:


> ...Do the states not use 6 pin Wieland for motor cable?


I had to Google that, so the short answer is No. Fly cables are either 7pin Socapex, or two cables bundled together each using a different 4pin TwistLoc™ or TurnLoc™. VLPS at one time used "mustard and ketchup" colored CeeForm connectors. Recently I've seen two shows where the fly cables were only one TL4. Very annoying when one can't plug a pickle into the motor to float it.

Mustard and ketchup and pickles, now I'm hungry.


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## soundman (Feb 21, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I had to Google that, so the short answer is No. Fly cables are either 7pin Socapex, or two cables bundled together each using a different 4pin TwistLoc™ or TurnLoc™. VLPS at one time used "mustard and ketchup" colored CeeForm connectors. Recently I've seen two shows where the fly cables were only one TL4. Very annoying when one can't plug a pickle into the motor to float it.
> Mustard and ketchup and pickles, now I'm hungry.



Don't forget about the P-14 connector which is my personal preference as far motor cables go. Quicker to connect and disconnect than the socapex version and it is only one cable.


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## derekleffew (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't think I know of the "P-14 connector". Link? Who uses it?


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## soundman (Feb 21, 2008)

http://www.motionlabs.com/c-24-flycable-chain-hoist.aspx

I know of at least two companies in the great lakes area that use it, One of them a fairly large rigging house but they do not do many tours (did some DMB stuff this year) so their gear might not get out by you.


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## derekleffew (Feb 21, 2008)

Nope, never seen it. 

I have to question the practice of using a 14-pin connector and only wiring 7 pins. I do like the "Quik-Loc" feature though. I wish all Socapex-type were that way.


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## nrcafootball68 (Feb 21, 2008)

Chris15 said:


> Please justify your statement of live pins being accessible with the adaptor on the left...



oops, i thought it had male connectors on both ends...


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## soundman (Feb 22, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Nope, never seen it.
> I have to question the practice of using a 14-pin connector and only wiring 7 pins. I do like the "Quik-Loc" feature though. I wish all Socapex-type were that way.



Not only is the connector only wired for 7 conductors it only has seven pins so a simple glance will not be able to tell you if all the pins are there because of all the empty spaces. The only other draw back to the connector is that the frame is kind of thin and when I was checking in cables one out of every 100 would need to be hit with a file to remove a bur to allow it to mate correctly. (so 1 out of 200 connectors not bad and all)


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## BNBSound (Mar 2, 2008)

Looks like one of the products of the "Basic Electronics Lab" offered in the Music Production department where I went to school. They offered a weekly, one hour course in soldering and whatnot. The were soldering together whatever they could find just to practice and making some pretty sick adapters.

After a while it got really out of control and the crowning piece was a Cam-Lok to MIDI with taps for stereo headphones. I heard it was actually still on display until shortly before I transferred there.


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## derekleffew (Apr 1, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> What purpose do these two pictured adapters serve and what are their proper names?


The purpose they serve is purely educational. The first is an "A5M to L21-30C," and the second is an "L21-30P to A5F." No wires are terminated inside any connectors. Thank you all for your very imaginative responses. 

Have a very foolish day!


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 1, 2008)

:shock: 

You....I'll get you for this...


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## Pip (Apr 1, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> The purpose they serve is purely educational. The first is an "A5M to L21-30R," and the second is an "L21-30P to A5F." No wires are terminated inside any connectors. Thank you all for your very imaginative responses.
> Have a very foolish day!



AKA It was a trick question...


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