# Loose Truss Bolts!!!



## photoatdv (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm shall we say a little bit furious. One of the techs provided by a hire company is taking lead on assembling the truss (on the ground) with several of our labor. I (being LD) was working on something else and return to find the truss at working height. I find out my assistant who was supposed to have checked the truss did not and also returned to find the truss already at working height. I find the guy from the hire company and explicitly ask if the bolts were checked and he states that they were. I ask again if we are good (since I never saw him or anyone else qualified check them) and he assures me we are good too go. So being already behind I say okay and figure it's okay even if it wasn't my assistant who checked.

Well, after we bring the truss down I end up breaking part of it and discover 2 loose bolts which concerned me a bit til I realize the tools are laying next to there and I saw someone with them earlier... so I assume someone started breaking then got distracted. After the load out is over I talk to my assistant who did most of the truss on the out and find out he found several loose bolts all over!

At this point I'm not sure how to handle it. They were already gone today when I found out there were definitely loose bolts, otherwise I would've had a talk with the guy who said they were checked and then decided how far to take it.


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## Footer (Apr 19, 2010)

Your still hiring a crappy labor company. Get a better labor company or double check everything yourself. With the number of threads you have started in the last month and a half complaining about your labor company either you need to budget for people who actually know what they are doing or hire a crew yourself and train. Either way, you are not paying enough for labor and this is the result.


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## MPowers (Apr 19, 2010)

This issue is far more serious than you may realize. It would be bad enough if a wagon locked up or a flat wobbled or fell, but truss and overhead rigging can kill or seriously injure crew or talent. This is simply not acceptable. No deadline or “show must go on” mentality can justify shortchanging safety and the checking, double and triple checking everything that goes up above peoples heads. There is also a liability issue here. You may be personally liable and in turn your employer and the venue owner. If an accident were to happen, I guarantee your name would be the first on the list of “Who to Sue”. 

Now, it sounds like you need a qualified assistant during your load-in, as you are obviously stretched far too thin to reasonably oversee all aspects of the event. For IA crews, there must be a steward (job title may differ from local to local) to be a supervisor if the crew is (number may vary with local) 4 or more. If the labor company supplying your help can’t or won’t supply a steward or supervisor, then you need to supply one or plan the load in to be X hours longer to allow you to oversee each aspect as needed. If your budget won’t allow for an assistant or allow the hire company to provide a super, then your parent company needs to scale back until the budget, time and available crew match up to provide an acceptable level of competence and safety during the in and out.

If you need outside opinion or verification to backup requests for more/better crew, load in time or supervisory help, I’m sure there are several on this list, including myself, who will be glad to contact your PTB. HTH.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment, Des Moines, Ia. Central Lighting & Equipment


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## photoatdv (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm well aware how bad this is... and you better believe this will not be ignored. However, the tech that told me the truss had been checked and was good to be flown was sent by the truss provider as a "qualified person". This guy was actually from the better of the companies I work with, and something like this is not usually an issue with them. I have a few others that are not so great and that, and the fact that I would not have the time to personally check/ supervise the truss, is why I did insist that someone is hired from the truss provider. I think what happened is that the truss provider has been swamped and has had their guys working way too long hours, because this guy had been working for no less than 12 hours between multiple gigs at the time this happened. However if I report this to the company he would most likely be severely reprimanded or worse, and while whatever happened was pretty much unforgivable, he's a nice guy who has worked really hard to help me on multiple occasions.

Also, I am not a rigger (not that I couldn't do it, but I'm not really comfortable doing it) and as such rely on the riggers word that it is safe. Now tie-in/ disconnect is a different ballgame, I do personally check that if I don't do it or watch someone else check it if I do.


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## kendal69 (Apr 20, 2010)

A phrase I head and have never forgotten.

INSPECT what you EXPECT. 

When it's as critical as rigging I put hand and eye's on every thing myself. If you ever want to scare the life out of yourself take a certified rigging course and I guarantee you will never ever leave anyone else in charge no matter who they are.


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## MPowers (Apr 20, 2010)

There are a few people I would trust and not inspect after, but not many. The ones I would trust, I have known and/or worked with for many years. Strangely enough, the first three all work for the same company, SRI, Sapsis Rigging Inc. Sapsis Rigging - Stage Rigging & Safety Inspections Bill Sapsis owner founder, Michael Sapsis (son) and Chris Harris. Although there are many good and reliable riggers out there, my personal short list ends there. Others I would have to work with at least once to add them to the list. Bill and I both advertise we stand behind and under our work. I add that I've been rigging over 45 years and I've never dropped something on someone......accidently! 

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Ia. Central Lighting & Equipment
Michael Powers


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## masterelectrician2112 (Apr 20, 2010)

So it has been established that some of the bolts were loose on the truss. In the professional world, how do you check to make sure that the bolts are tight enough? Is it as simple as feeling how tight they are or do you use some sort of a torque meter? I am sorry if I seem naive in asking this, but I have very little experience with truss.


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## MPowers (Apr 20, 2010)

........because this guy had been working for no less than 12 hours between multiple gigs at the time this happened. However if I report this to the company he would most likely be severely reprimanded or worse, and while whatever happened was pretty much unforgivable, he's a nice guy who has worked really hard to help me on multiple occasions.
.[/QUOTE]

While there may be "extenuating" circumstances, it still doesn't make it "OK". You don't want to have to pick up the phone and say "Oh, BTW Mrs. Jones, set one less plate at the table tonight, Jennifer won't be coming home 'cuz the labor company worked the crew too hard and they left a bolt out over her head."

If you are aware of the condition and something happens, it's not their fault...Its yours! If you knew, and something happens, its your fault. I'm not trying to "blame" you , just telling you what will happen in any legal action that follows an accident.

If you feel strongly enough about the relationship between you and the individual involved, do both of you a favor. Take him aside and explain what occurred and while you know he was over extended, it is still not acceptable. Let him know that this is a one shot deal, another episode and that's it. Now, because you know about the episode, the next couple of times he rigs for you, you will have to go the extra mile and check and inspect behind him. It's the only way you can legally and in good conscience let him work for you again. 

If it were me, I would have to report the incident to the parent company. If he has been a good and reliable hand and this is the first time and not part of a pattern, they are not likely to can him on the spot. However if this is a pattern, you will be doing the company and yourself and the men and women in our industry who have to rely on his skills a favor to report him. If something happened on another show somewhere and he was responsible, in this electronic age, someone would find your post here and add you to the list of the sued, because you didn't report the incident. 

I'm not trying to be a hard a** or prick, I'm just trying to point out what can happen. Look at other entertainment incidents that resulted in death or serious injury and count the number of people on the "to be sued" list. Many with good reason, some with no reason but they still have to shell out bundle to defend them selves. Best defense.....don't allow something to happen, don't "let it slide". Hope I haven't put too much of a damper on your day. Rigging is a very serious business and I have trouble letting anything I see as a possible danger go by.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment, Inc. Des Moines, Central Lighting & Equipment


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## soundman (Apr 20, 2010)

masterelectrician2112 said:


> So it has been established that some of the bolts were loose on the truss. In the professional world, how do you check to make sure that the bolts are tight enough? Is it as simple as feeling how tight they are or do you use some sort of a torque meter? I am sorry if I seem naive in asking this, but I have very little experience with truss.



My method for large systems of truss is to have at least two pairs. Pair A is given a box of bolts and told to start all the bolts but to leave 1/2" of thread. Pair B is given a set of truss tools and told to tighten all the bolts that pair A has started. The reason for leaving so much thread on the bolts when they are started is that become obvious if someone has tightened them or not. If you have them finger tighten all the way you almost need a wrench to see if they are snug. 

Truss bolts should be firm but there is no need to 'go gorilla' on them.


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## MPowers (Apr 20, 2010)

......how do you check to make sure that the bolts are tight enough? Is it as simple as feeling how tight they are or do you use some sort of a torque [autolink said:


> meter[/autolink]? ......



If you want to be precise, there is a tool called a Torque Wrench. It measures the torque with a audible and tactile "Click" or a pointer on a scale. In real practice, there is quite a range of acceptable tighting torque on truss bolts because the diameter and grade of the bolts has a very large design factor. Different truss manufacturers list different torques so I won't try to provide a table or list. Once a technician has torqued a few bolts to a specific measurement, they have a reasonably good "feel" for what is correct. The Truss manufacturers design factor takes into account that every bolt, while "tight" will not actually be as tight as the "recommended" torque setting. What is NOT acceptable is "LOOSE"! If you can loosen the nut with your fingers or a nut driver type of tool, it is too loose or you should be making a fortune as a Strong Man. Most truss joining with bolt and nut connection use 5/8" grade 8 hardware. With grade 8 bolts, it is very unlikely that you can twist a bolt off by over tightening, but if you have to hammer on the wrench handle or use a pipe on the handle to make a longer lever, it's way too tight. How tight??? Once all the bolts on a connection are snugged up tight, nut driver tight, using a cross or star pattern, then another 3/4 to full turn is usually sufficient. This is not hard and fast, if final tightening makes the joint plates wiggle or snug tighter, then the 3/4 to full turn has to start again. The best way to tell? In the shop or warehouse, tighten a few sections, check with a torque wrench, have a seasoned hand check your join. Undo it and do it again. When you can consistently get at or a bit above the torque recommended by the manufacturer of the truss you are using, you're ready for the road. HTH.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Ia. Central Lighting & Equipment


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## soundman (Apr 20, 2010)

MPowers said:


> Different truss manufacturers list different torques so I won't try to provide a table or list.[/URL]



Care to post one? I have looked at Extreme, Tomcat, Thomas and Total and can not find anything about what they are specifying for torque.


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## photoatdv (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, I found out it was like his third gig of the day AFTER the truss was in the air and show was starting. I thought it was his first at the time. His company takes safety SO seriously I honestly could see them firing him on the spot for it. I think I will talk to him about it and as long as he takes it seriously just make sure someone checks it after he checks until he regains my trust (and make it clear if it ever happens again not only will he never work for me but I will file a formal report with his company). If he chooses not to take it seriously then I will report it.


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## Chris15 (Apr 22, 2010)

Now I know the legals of things are different in the states, but here, the company that is sending the tech is responsible for their actions, they hold the liability.

If that company is sending fatigued persons out, then they are the ones who need to be called out for the lapse here...


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## MPowers (Apr 22, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> If that company is sending fatigued persons out, then they are the ones who need to be called out for the lapse here...



That still doesn't get you off the hook. If you knew about an issue and did not take steps to correct it, you could be charged with Contributory Negligence. Kind of like the the get-a-way car driver who never even had a gun, can be charged with murder if the guy in the bank shoots someone.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa, Central Lighting & Equipment


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## photoatdv (Apr 22, 2010)

As I said, I was not aware that he was sleep deprived when he said he had checked it, and by the time I found out the show was starting. Also, there is a big difference between individuals on how long they can work before becoming ineffective. 12 hours is not that long in this industry... I've done much longer (and still remember how to use a wrench by the end). Moral of the story is in the future I will have to watch any hands in a supervisory/ responsible position more carefully.


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## DuckJordan (Apr 22, 2010)

photoatdv said:


> As I said, I was not aware that he was sleep deprived when he said he had checked it, and by the time I found out the show was starting. Also, there is a big difference between individuals on how long they can work before becoming ineffective. 12 hours is not that long in this industry... I've done much longer (and still remember how to use a wrench by the end). Moral of the story is in the future I will have to watch any hands in a supervisory/ responsible position more carefully.




No but there are osha mandates, and anything longer than 12 hours cannot be very much. I will look up the osha codes later when i have more time.


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## Footer (Apr 22, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> No but there are osha mandates, and anything longer than 12 hours cannot be very much. I will look up the osha codes later when i have more time.



A 6am or 7am in that goes until 1am on the out is not at all uncommon. 15-16 hours a day are the norm in most road houses. 12 hours is no reason to think a person can not do something. Its negligence and has nothing to do with sleep.


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## photoatdv (Apr 22, 2010)

Keep forgetting to update you guys on my epically long gig... that was a little while ago now... but I've been going show to show to show. Anyways, on it I did ~28 hours with one like 20 minute catnap in the middle. By the end of it I still felt good to lead the out, though just because I knew I was really sleep deprived I did have a second person checking me on the more critical things...


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## mstaylor (Apr 24, 2010)

Loose truss bolts is a very serious problem. I had a similar problem with my crew, too many doing things they weren't told to do. I threw a fit and said I wanted two gys that I assign to tighten bolts. Anybody else I saw with a wrench in their hands goes home. The same goes for putting span sets and shackles on trusses. In 35 years I have dropped one truss and that was a Thomas quick connect bolt system, always hated them and can"t remember the proper name for them, it was up for five days and refocused every day. On the next to last day we were focusing and it broke with a guy on it.


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