# The new thread on labeling gel



## gafftapegreenia (Nov 9, 2010)

I feel this has been discussed in the past, but perhaps never in its own thread.

Where does everyone like to label their gel? There seems to be heated debate between hidden in the corner and visible somewhere in the opening. 

My personal opinion, is while "R99" need not be written across the entire sheet, I have found it useful to have the label visible in some point of the frame opening. What brought me to this conclusion is last week I dropped gel for a show, and the guy who cut and labeled it all labeled in the lower corner and then placed the gel in the frames. I then had to waste time unframing gel during hang to figure out what was R09 and what was R08.


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## Ryohei (Nov 9, 2010)

Yea, I too find it easier to just label it in the frame opening so that i can just take a glance at it to see what gel i have it in. Instead of having to go up and looking at it.


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## Sony (Nov 9, 2010)

Coming from someone who works with students every day....I don't care where it's labeled as long as it's labeled!!! So many wasted hours sorting gel


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## erosing (Nov 9, 2010)

Sony said:


> Coming from someone who works with students every day....I don't care where it's labeled as long as it's labeled!!! So many wasted hours sorting gel


 
Same here, as long as it's labeled (and legibly) with manufacturers first letter followed by number, you can put it anywhere. But it better have a letter and number because "G" isn't a gel, and 27 doesn't tell me if it's Lee or Rosco. 

When I label gel, I put it in the visible portion somewhere.


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## sstolnack (Nov 9, 2010)

Yeah I'm fine with people labeling it wherever, but as Arez said, it needs a letter and number. And for some reason people at my high school label it starting with "x", so it's x02 or x101, which seems pointless to me. I think it's just to make sure you're not reading it backwards or something, but I would like to know if its lee or rosco...


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## derekleffew (Nov 9, 2010)

Arez said:


> ...because "G" isn't a gel, ...


"G" is/was the standard accepted prefix for Gelatran.


sstolnack said:


> ...And for some reason people at my high school label it starting with "x", so it's x02 or x101, which seems pointless to me. I think it's just to make sure you're not reading it backwards or something, but I would like to know if its lee or rosco...


Back in the day when Roscolene and Roscolux were used conconcurrently, "X" was preferred as the prefix for Roscolux, as even though all Roscolene began with 8xx, R could stand for either.

gafftapegreenia, the last time this subject arose, the concensus was that if the fixtures were visible to the audience, label it in the corner, otherwise, in the center of the cut is fine. If using a Sharpie rather than a china marker, always in the corner, never in the center.


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## Sony (Nov 9, 2010)

I've seen other professionals label Gel's as x as well, I do believe it refers to a certain manufacturer, I think it's Lee because the L can look like a 1 from the floor. I've only seen that used in one place I used to work. I don't think it's very common.


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## erosing (Nov 9, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> "G" is/was the standard accepted prefix for Gelatran.


 
I actually meant that "G" alone, is not a helpful way to label gel, as in without a number associated with it (with a number I would see it to mean a Gam gel). Unless, you're telling me that Gelatran had no numbers? 



Sony said:


> I've seen other professionals label Gel's as x as well, I do believe it refers to a certain manufacturer, I think it's Lee because the L can look like a 1 from the floor. I've only seen that used in one place I used to work. I don't think it's very common.



I've seen it a couple times once as Lee, for your reasoning, the others as Rosco because the labelers grew up doing as DerekLeffew noted.


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## ship (Nov 10, 2010)

Pay or trust people to get the right gel into a frame in following a plot. Shouldn't be an issue.

Easier to find pre-cut gel color if that gel in a gel file / storage is marked in the top half. This assuming a gel file that's sized for the frame size. If a drawer full of gel of that color, mark in the middle, it won't matter in light output. All depends on your storage system for finding it in them installing it wrong screwed up and shouldn't play a factor in how you mark it.

If quick gel frame changes or something, mark the gel frame itself in closing it with what color it is. Sealed and done and no guessing. Fiberglass electrical tape won't burn into your gel frame when it gets hot and similar color to masking tape, is easy to mark. Pre-gel your gel frames and mark in sealing them up. Idiot proofing the system perhaps the way to go. Otherwise if not taping them, at least grease penciling the gel frame for the color could work if cleaned off afterwards.


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## ship (Nov 10, 2010)

Arez said:


> Same here, as long as it's labeled (and legibly) with manufacturers first letter followed by number, you can put it anywhere. But it better have a letter and number because "G" isn't a gel, and 27 doesn't tell me if it's Lee or Rosco.
> 
> When I label gel, I put it in the visible portion somewhere.


 
Ah but that should be easy to figure out by way of thickness and textrue. Try sorting gel as a color blind sorter... I'm accurate but it's even more difficult.


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## ship (Nov 10, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> "G" is/was the standard accepted prefix for Gelatran.
> 
> Back in the day when Roscolene and Roscolux were used conconcurrently, "X" was preferred as the prefix for Roscolux, as even though all Roscolene began with 8xx, R could stand for either.
> 
> gafftapegreenia, the last time this subject arose, the concensus was that if the fixtures were visible to the audience, label it in the corner, otherwise, in the center of the cut is fine. If using a Sharpie rather than a china marker, always in the corner, never in the center.


 
Agree with the X but I did Rx, Gelatran on the other hand.. Don't think I have ever seen it before unless it was the pokadot gel I saw once in a gel file. I would give the G to the Gam and give Geltran a prominat place to hang.

On the center... gives tech people something to do during a boring show. On the other hand, as per the above, easier to read in a gel file if above in I think better concept.

Also, side note on the fiberglass electrical tape, sticks gobos to gobo holders really well in clean removable and easy enough to mark. Stuff to get and possibly cheaper than Tac Tape in doing the same where not needed to be black.


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## WooferHound (Nov 10, 2010)

I prefer to mark gel where it can be seen in the frame but out to the side near the frame, not in the center.


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## ptero (Nov 10, 2010)

It's probably obvious, but maybe some younguns should know. The color of the china marker/grease pencil does matter. Early on, I was the idiot who used black grease pencil - somebody led me astray on that. I quickly learned white is the way to go. The black collects the heat and causes fading and burnouts. 

Otherwise, I agree with marking so the number can be read in the frame. But not HUGE, ok? 

On the "G" tangent - I use G for GamColor nowadays.

Ship - in a rep situation we used to use Avery 'dot' labels with the color noted on the dot with plain old pen, and stuck on a corner of the frame. They would survive the heat for a rep season. With three shows up, there could be 3 gels by each unit on the cats. Each show was a different dot color. So recolor could be done by dot color as long as things remained stacked by "their" instrument.


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## ptero (Nov 10, 2010)

and B for Brigham!


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## erosing (Nov 10, 2010)

ship said:


> Ah but that should be easy to figure out by way of thickness and textrue. Try sorting gel as a color blind sorter... I'm accurate but it's even more difficult.


 
I can pick out Apollo and Gam from each other and from either Rosco or Lee, but if you throw in both Rosco and Lee to an assortment I can only guess, haven't worked with the two together enough to pick out their textures from each other.


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## venuetech (Nov 10, 2010)

Rx for roscolux (think prescription)
must see the number in the frame

does anyone use brads to hold the color in the frame?
I would years ago, but now only for certain issues.


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## Sayen (Nov 10, 2010)

Sony said:


> Coming from someone who works with students every day....I don't care where it's labeled as long as it's labeled!!! So many wasted hours sorting gel



If it makes you feel any better, I had a student intern once who wrote things like "Light Blue" and "Dark Blue" on gels when cutting.


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## Dsotm75 (Nov 10, 2010)

I've used brads to hold gel into its frame for colors that need to change during changeovers during summerstock shows...

As for labeling gel, I never know if a gel is going to be placed in a fixture somewhere where an audience member can see it, so I habitually label gel in the corner of the gel. 

I use 'Rx' for Rosco, 'L' for Lee, and 'G' for GAM. I've never worked with the Apollo line of gels, but if I did, I would probably use the prefix 'Ap' for gel labeling


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## icewolf08 (Nov 10, 2010)

Seeing as we generally don't frame color until it is about to get dropped, and I hate seeing gel numbers when I am watching a show, I insist on labeling in a corner or at least along the edge of the cut. There is never a time that we are looking for burned/faded color, or doing anything with color for that matter where I don't have paperwork in hand. It is easy enough to look at the paperwork during channel check, hang, or focus to determine what color the light you are looking at is supposed to be. That being said, you also have to write pretty big for most people to be able to read the number from the deck anyway. I think neat and uniform writing on the edge/corner is much nicer than what usually ends up as big and sloppy through the middle.

As for numbering: A=Apollo, R=Rosco, G=Gam, L=Lee. I do still have some cuts of color and some designers who use "Rx" for Rosco, but anything new just gets "R."


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## sstolnack (Nov 10, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> Back in the day when Roscolene and Roscolux were used conconcurrently, "X" was preferred as the prefix for Roscolux, as even though all Roscolene began with 8xx, R could stand for either.


Interesting, I didn't know that, I see how it could be useful. Now, however, people label both Rosoclux and Lee (the only two type of gel we use) with "x", so it doesn't help anymore...


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## seanandkate (Nov 10, 2010)

R for Rosco, L for Lee, then the number, large enough that I can read it in an FOH position from onstage.


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## SteveB (Nov 10, 2010)

I feel like we beat this topic to death 2 years ago, but here's our system as well as what's posted in our gel room:

We use both paper Safety Frame Mainframes for all ellipsoidals and metal for the S4 Pars and ParNels, which burn the paper frames. Since the majority of our events are one-off's we use brass paper fasteners. I've recently started having trouble getting the 3/4" length and could only order 1/2", which are somewhat more difficult to use. 

The reason I label visible is to be able to distinguish the colors when pre-loading. It's hard to tell an R80 from an R74 quickly when they sit on a table about to go in an instrument, so labeling in a corner where the number is hidden wastes time and allows errors. I understand a designers choice to not see numbers from the audience viewpoint and if I worked a space that was other then proscenium I would go with designers preference. But since we're a proscenium space and the lighting units are generally not visible, it's not an issue. We also pre-load prior to focus so the electrician in the lift or on the catwalk isn't wasting time finding the single R74 in a bag of color for 27 units. If the LD want's to focus N/C, the focusing electrician can temporarily pull the gel. In a similar manner I do not pre-load diffusion as you usually end up pulling it anyway to do the intial focus, then adding it as required. I keep possibly 100 cuts of R132 and R119 framed and ready to go.View attachment Color Frame for gel room.pdfView attachment Whitman Lighting Color Cutting Requirements.pdf


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## derekleffew (Nov 10, 2010)

SteveB said:


> ...Since the majority of our events are one-off's we use brass paper fasteners. ...


One brad per frame, or two? If one, upper right- or left-hand corner? Why aren't all your frames black on both sides?


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## mstaylor (Nov 10, 2010)

Most companies I work with mark in the middle but I do mostly arena shows so we are either doing trusses already loaded or we are pulling gels from files. We had a situation where a lighting company was supplying the instruments for a touring theatre production and two stagehands were tasked with cutting gel for him. The problem was they missed the memo on marking them as they were cut. This was problematic fo two reasons, there is a pile of gel with colors such as 1/2 blue, 1/4 blue and others too close to call. The second was there was a combo of Rosco, Gamco and Lee, plus there was some substitutions due to unavailability. 
When you have colors that close you really need to be able to read the numbers while hung.


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## SteveB (Nov 10, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> One brad per frame, or two? If one, upper right- or left-hand corner? Why aren't all your frames black on both sides?



One brad, any corner, though most right handed people put it in the upper left, go figure. No need for 2 brads as it's a one-off and is only there to keep the gel with the frame. Using 2 brads does help prevent some warping, or crinkling of the darker filters, which speeds up color fading, so if the show's running a long time use 2 brads or paper frames with staples.

Older frames are Ye Olde Type - silver as supplied from Strand/Century or Altman way back when, since painted black one side - efficiency here, as the audience only see's that side, but it means I have to remind the crew - Black Out !, just like you remind the sod lawn crew "Green UP". 

I was recently talked into buying some newer style all black metal frames that have a larger opening that is supposed to work better with S4 Par Wides, not cropping the field. Trouble is I had to pay someone to pry apart the bottom of the frames as they were impossible to get the gel to slide in.


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## shiben (Nov 10, 2010)

SteveB said:


> .
> 
> I was recently talked into buying some newer style all black metal frames that have a larger opening that is supposed to work better with S4 Par Wides, not cropping the field. Trouble is I had to pay someone to pry apart the bottom of the frames as they were impossible to get the gel to slide in.


 
I noticed this too. Its a PITA.


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## techieman33 (Nov 10, 2010)

All our gel is labeled in the bottom corner with white china marker. There are still some older cuts though that were labeled with little avery stickers, they are mostly rosco cuts and labeled LUX xx. Other than those it's the standard R, L, G. 

All of our gel is stored in a 4 drawer file cabinet. 2 drawers are for Rosco 1 is 1-50 (including the 318's etc.) and the other is 51- up. 1 drawer for Lee and another for Gam. From there there is drawer is organized with a hanging file for each color, and a standard file folder inside the hanging folder for each cut size.


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## Les (Nov 10, 2010)

shiben said:


> I noticed this too. Its a PITA.


 
Me three... Bent the bottom of those things all to heck with a Leatherman trying to get a wide enough gap to get the gel in!


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## venuetech (Nov 10, 2010)

Les said:


> Me three... Bent the bottom of those things all to heck with a Leatherman trying to get a wide enough gap to get the gel in!


 
It is a common problem with new frames just take a second frame and use that to widen the gap by spreading the new frame open a bit. takes all of 10 seconds.


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## Les (Nov 10, 2010)

venuetech said:


> It is a common problem with new frames just take a second frame and use that to widen the gap by spreading the new frame open a bit. takes all of 10 seconds.



My problem was that the ends spread just fine. It was that middle section that was painted shut or something. I couldn't get them open without something very sharp. These were frames for the Source Four Zooms. If I encounter them again (hopefully not), I'll remember the frame trick. Hopefully it'll work.


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 10, 2010)

I've found the can opener on a Victorinox Swiss Army Knife perfect for opening ETC PAR frames.


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## WooferHound (Nov 10, 2010)

When I get frames that are pressed shut on the bottom, I run a larger sized flathead screwdriver through there and it spreads it out perfectly.


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## marshmolly123 (Nov 12, 2010)

As a high schooler, I'm in the "as long as it's labeled..." category -- way too many people cut gel without labeling it. However, if given a choice, I'll label it so that it's visible when the gel is in the frame.

We also run into problems with people not writing the letter, too. I think because we use almost entirely Rosco, people assume that the letter is unnecessary. It gets confusing, though. People also assume all gel is Rosco, so sometimes I see an R201 floating around -.-


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## Anvilx (Nov 12, 2010)

I may have picked it up from the previous thread: I always label my gel in opposing corners. That way there is always a number to look at when it is in a file.


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## TheGuruat12 (Dec 30, 2010)

For our gel, somebody long ago started putting R in front and x on the end for Roscolux, and left the Roscolene alone. Incidentally, our most-used colors are STILL 'lene. We have renamed Roscolene 830 as "Better Than Ugly Pink."


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## photoatdv (Dec 30, 2010)

It depends for me...

In a school/volunteer setting, I'm just happy if they are marked at all and marked right (red R68s and pink L201s are always fun). Speaking of unmarked, I have several uncut sheets in stock for one group that are not labeled. Any ideas on figuring this out? The other stock is a combination of Rosco, Lee, Gam, Apollo... so even going through a swatchbook would be tough.

In a professional setting, it better be marked correctly, and preferably in the corner because I hate when numbers are visible to the audience.


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## genericcomment (Jan 1, 2011)

If you are marking the middle of the gel don't use china markers, the wax concentrates heat like a fingerprint on a lamp. It burns the gel out faster.


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## jstandfast (Jan 2, 2011)

It's very interesting to me that this discussion has ,thus far, been limited to the marking of color as type only. In great swaths of our world,
much more information is conveyed. At an opera rep company, for example, a piece of framed color found stray in a lift bucket might say:
Cav/Pag

2E-22

RX-361

Widely spread, of course.and avoiding the center of the piece but, nonetheless, a precise road map for where that color goes(and when).


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## DELO72 (Jan 5, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> I then had to waste time unframing gel during hang to figure out what was R09 and what was R08.



That's why they invented Plots/Hookups/Schedules.... 

As both a former designer and M.E., I preferred the upper right hand corner of the gel. This way it was out of sight of the audience (my 1st choice as a designer/audience member), and also because it wouldn't get ruined early from the wax pencil in the hot spot of the beam. and if you had to go up to the unit you could still read it without removing the gel from the frame just by opening the top of the gel frame a little. 

I don't know why anyone would put it in a lower corner, which just seems to be the worst possible solution all-around.

In my humble opinion, the gel is listed on the Channel Hookup, Dimmer Schedule, (and usually) the Plot, so having it show visibly on the gel itself when standing on the stage is kind of overkill. If you have to go up to where the gel is stored ANYWAY to pick up a new cut, you might as well just save the time by having the channel hookup in hand or nearby, and save yourself having to squint at a number that might be backwards or upside down...


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## djyojoe (Aug 20, 2011)

What marking utensils (Sharpie, Grease Pen, Ect) do you guys use to mark your gel sheets with?


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## Esoteric (Aug 20, 2011)

Sharpie in the corner. If I need to know what color it is, I just pop out my phone and look on the instrument schedule. Marking is for filing purposes.

Mike


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## rochem (Aug 20, 2011)

djyojoe said:


> What marking utensils (Sharpie, Grease Pen, Ect) do you guys use to mark your gel sheets with?


 
White china markers. Except when framing R00 or something where white won't show up, in which case use black china markers. 

On the original topic of the thread, I worked under a few different Production Electricians this summer who all use the same method of labeling. Color in the lower center of the cut (so it's visible in the frame, like in SteveB's example. Then above that, position and unit number. It was weird at first, but it makes hang infinitely easier. Also, for companies that save and reuse gel, the china marker can wipe off, leaving just the gel number. Works great.


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## sdauditorium (Aug 20, 2011)

We use white china markers..more specifically, Apollo's gel markers. As far as marking gel, we used to mark in the middle so that it was visible in the frame. However, I noticed that where we marked tended to burn out and lose color quicker. Now, we've resorted to marking in the top corner of the gel out of frame.


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## josh88 (Aug 20, 2011)

white china marker as well, and generally we mark in the corner, though the system is newer and so a lot of old stock is still marked in the middle/side/wherever they felt like putting it before we made it "official"


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## tdrga (Aug 22, 2011)

If I paid for the gel, this is how it gets marked:

Color gets marked with white china marker, centered at the top of the frame opening. Any frost gets marked at the bottom of the frame opening. That way you can look at the instrument and know if there is a light frost in the frame or not-if you see two numbers, it has frost. Also leaves both numbers legible (as long as your electricians put the color/frost in the frame correctly).

Cyc cuts get labeled in the lower left hand corner, still visible while in the frame.

Nothing ever gets labeled in the center of the frame- too much heat concentrated in that spot.

We never do long running shows that would require the unit number on the gel, but I have worked on shows that do mark all of that info.

If someone else brings in their gel, they can mark it however they want.

-Todd


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## Jekyll (May 18, 2012)

So here is our scoop on things...

1) Gel is always numbered when cut
2) Gel is numbered in the top center of the opening (no larger than an average thumb size) - so they can be seen from the stage floor
3) Gel is never numbered in the center, regardless of sharpie or china marker, as it destroys saturated colours very quickly
4) Gel is numbered "R#" for Roscolux and "L#" for Lee (we rarely use Lee)
5) Any non-saturated colours are numbered with black sharpie and any saturated colours are labelled with white china marker
6) Gel is always placed into fixtures with the number facing outwards so it can be seen from the stage floor clearly during lamp checks
7) To save money, gel is always reused until I determine that the colour is worn or looks like it will start fading during its next use
8) Because of #6 above, we do not place any other information on the gel (inst #, location, focus purpose etc).
9) For anyone who has not figured this out yet, frost should always be placed against the lens (# facing out) with the colour in front of it. If placed into a fixture the opposite way (frost away from lens), you will burn your saturated (or any) colour into the frost and make it garbage after it's first and only use.
10) I do like the idea of numbering frosts in the bottom center visible so that the 2 numbers can be seen at the same time.
11) Finally, if you find yourself looking at the numbers of the gel from the audience, maybe you should question what productions your artistic director is producing!! hahahahaha

Thanks everyone for your input here. Great ideas from lots of great experience.

Cheers,
Darren
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darren W. Hales
Head Electrician - Granville Island Stage
Arts Club Theatre Company
Vancouver, BC


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## gafftapegreenia (May 18, 2012)

Jekyll said:


> 9) For anyone who has not figured this out yet, frost should always be placed against the lens (# facing out) with the colour in front of it. If placed into a fixture the opposite way (frost away from lens), you will burn your saturated (or any) colour into the frost and make it garbage after it's first and only use.



I have found that regardless of the order of gel and frost, color media inevitably deposits onto diffusion.


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## Jekyll (May 18, 2012)

gafftapegreenia said:


> ...color media inevitably deposits onto diffusion.



You are definitely correct, Gaff, however...I have cut frost (R119 or R132) for a lot of our Source 4's and after 2-3 years it is still not saturated with the colours previously used with it. In fact, frost will pretty much last a super long time if it lives in it's own frame against the lens with the colour in a separate frame away from the lens. You are then providing air space between the frost and your colour, allowing both to last much longer. Frost lets all colour tones pass through. The frost is just softening the beam for you instead of using the barrel to do this. Whereas, colour against the lens will start to separate from its sheet and bleed into the frost within minutes if using a more saturated colour like dark blue or indigo. So you have a choice of getting maybe a week or two (or max a full run of typical 5-6 weeks for most professional companies) out of your frost, or a couple years.


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## icewolf08 (May 19, 2012)

Jekyll said:


> You are definitely correct, Gaff, however...I have cut frost (R119 or R132) for a lot of our Source 4's and after 2-3 years it is still not saturated with the colours previously used with it. In fact, frost will pretty much last a super long time if it lives in it's own frame against the lens with the colour in a separate frame away from the lens. You are then providing air space between the frost and your colour, allowing both to last much longer. Frost lets all colour tones pass through. The frost is just softening the beam for you instead of using the barrel to do this. Whereas, colour against the lens will start to separate from its sheet and bleed into the frost within minutes if using a more saturated colour like dark blue or indigo. So you have a choice of getting maybe a week or two (or max a full run of typical 5-6 weeks for most professional companies) out of your frost, or a couple years.



In my experience, with light frosts like R119 & R132 I have never had any issue putting the frost in the same color frame as color in any of the ERS units we use. This includes source fours, strand axial fixtures, 360Qs, etc. I have seen this problem in cyc fixtures where we're use a silk diffusion.

This is not to say that it isn't a potential issue, but I have not had this problem of color bleeding onto frost.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## coasterboard (May 20, 2012)

Sayen said:


> If it makes you feel any better, I had a student intern once who wrote things like "Light Blue" and "Dark Blue" on gels when cutting.



Made me laugh. All too familiar...


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## coasterboard (May 20, 2012)

Esoteric said:


> Sharpie in the corner. If I need to know what color it is, I just pop out my phone and look on the instrument schedule. Marking is for filing purposes.
> 
> Mike



Makes sense. Do more work than you have to just so you can stick to your system. I think I've worked for you before....

On a serious note, I love having the gel in the middle. When its flown, I can read it. When its stacked in frames on the table waiting to be dropped in, I can quickly ID which stack is which without having to slide a corner out and read the marking. However, I do a lot of corporate shows now, and for those, I write the number off in the corner to keep the look as clean as possible. CEOs in the front row dont want to read r3206 on the lights. The clients pay for newly cut gel every show too, so after each show, I give the "used" gel to community theatres. That is, if they want them- corporate shows use a lot of CTB...


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## soundguy99 (Aug 27, 2013)

Hi Guys,
I don`t mean to re-hash an already heated topic of where to mark gels,
My question is more about the grease pencils themselves vs sharpie. I am still fairly new to the theater world and I understand that grease pencils have been traditionally used, and to a point I can understand why, however Grease pencils are removable. My question is that if I have a fresh roll of Lee 161 for instance and I`m cutting gels to fit my lights, I would want to mark them in some way that`s permanent wouldn`t I? So Once that is cut regardless what I do with that gel, I can look at it and see the permanent label, and no that its a Lee 161, without using a swatch book right?
The reason, I am asking the question is our theater is fairly old, with allot of misc. gels, some that you can clearly see that they have been marked with some sort of grease pencil, some you can see that the grease pencil has wore off and some are not even marked.
As I try and replace gels and re-organize things, going forward, regardless where I decide to mark them on the gels themselves I want to make, I am doing things properly, in that a month a year or 2 years down the road as that gel wears, I can still look at that gel, see the same label as when I first cut it from the sheet and know what it is without comparing it to a swatch book. 
The grease pencils being non permanent although it has been traditionally used, makes me question using it vs a more permanent option.
Maybe Its a strange question, but I wanted to get your thoughts on it,
Any thoughts are greatly appreciated,
Thanks,
soundguy99


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## robmerow (Aug 27, 2013)

So, is there a reason that the gel manufacturers don't print the number all over the sheet in really tiny/inconspicuous font so no matter how you cut it up you could always see it? Seems sort of odd that none of them do that since they know people end up having to do it themselves.


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## mstaylor (Aug 27, 2013)

I guess the compromise is to Mark in the opening with a grease pencil, then put a small stick on label in a corner make in sharpie.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2


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## zmb (Aug 27, 2013)

robmerow said:


> So, is there a reason that the gel manufacturers don't print the number all over the sheet in really tiny/inconspicuous font so no matter how you cut it up you could always see it? Seems sort of odd that none of them do that since they know people end up having to do it themselves.



I don't think that would be possible in the large scale production of gel without having to add another machine to the production process. All the sheets of gel I've seen have a small sticker applied or the brand and number stamped on. Also, how big would the printing have to be? I usually write in inch high letters so I can quickly sort gel out without having to squint at it or bring it closer.

Here's a video of the process, presumably Lee Filters because the plastic is being saturated in tray of colored lacquer.


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## soundguy99 (Aug 27, 2013)

Thanks for the reply,
I just didn`t know if there was some sort of heat issue with the ink in the sharpie, or a label you would throw on there. I know it sounds silly, but when you hear allot of lighting guys using the grease pencils, I didn`t know if there was anything specific that would make them use the grease pencil exclusively vs a sharpie or anything else. You know one of those light guy things that are common knowledge to some, that just gets passed down through the years. 
Thanks,
soundguy


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## lwinters630 (Aug 27, 2013)

I use *white china* markers because they won't absorb the heat and melt the gel. Black will wrinkle and melt the gel if it gets in the light beam. I have never had any rub off unintentionally.


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## DELO72 (Aug 28, 2013)

One item that confuses the hell out of me. For those of you who said, "in the center, as I don't want to have to climb a ladder or bring it in to check what color it is...." -- You have heard of these things called "Dimmer Hookups and Channel Schedules", right? There's also this thing called a Light Plot. All three list the gel in each fixture. Just sayin'.... John Mckernon must be facepalming over this thread.


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## SteveB (Aug 28, 2013)

robmerow said:


> So, is there a reason that the gel manufacturers don't print the number all over the sheet in really tiny/inconspicuous font so no matter how you cut it up you could always see it? Seems sort of odd that none of them do that since they know people end up having to do it themselves.



Probably because there are countless variations of sizes of gel cuts, so there's no way to guarantee that you would get labeling on every cut. You would need a whole lot of numbers and that might get really annoying.


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## techieman33 (Aug 28, 2013)

robmerow said:


> So, is there a reason that the gel manufacturers don't print the number all over the sheet in really tiny/inconspicuous font so no matter how you cut it up you could always see it? Seems sort of odd that none of them do that since they know people end up having to do it themselves.



I could maybe see Apollo doing it on their perf-gel. I don't see it working well anywhere else. I wouldn't want to end up with a label in the visible part of the cut, others may like it in the middle of the cut. Those that like it in the middle may not like that it's to small to read, or one of a hundred other possible complaints. It also adds expense to making the gel, which will just get passed down to the end user in the end anyway.


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## SteveB (Aug 28, 2013)

DELO72 said:


> One item that confuses the hell out of me. For those of you who said, "in the center, as I don't want to have to climb a ladder or bring it in to check what color it is...." -- You have heard of these things called "Dimmer Hookups and Channel Schedules", right? There's also this thing called a Light Plot. All three list the gel in each fixture. Just sayin'.... John Mckernon must be facepalming over this thread.



Mark, all that paperwork does is gets the color cut, framed and headed towards the units. Then someone doesn't pay attention and puts an R04 in a unit on 1E that is supposed to be an R304 and you wonder why you now have a spare frame of R304 in your hand and are missing an R04 for the 4th electric. Having it labeled so you can see it helps you find the error. 

Humans being human are prone to error and it's just another method of helping to find and eliminate errors before they become problems.


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## MPowers (Aug 28, 2013)

zmb said:


> ..........presumably Lee Filters because..........[/video]



Of course they're LEE. The swatch-book has a yellow cover and the label on the gel at 4:18 and Label on the shipping tube 4:50 all say LEE Filters!

As to why grease pencil not sharpie? We started marking when gel WAS gel. Magic markers had a tendency to wrinkle the gel and as no color lasted more than a few days at best, some lavenders and blues were often one show and done, change them every night at light check. Permanent marking simply wasn't needed then.


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## soundguy99 (Aug 29, 2013)

Then in that case it might be worth looking at getting a heat resistant sharpie or marker that would be a bit more permanent and resist the heat better.
As I said once I mark them from a fresh roll I don`t want those marks to come off, until I throw out the gel itself. I am in the process of trying to sift through a entire filing cabinet of different sizes, manufacture and color of gels, which some have been marked partially marked and no marked at all, and I am trying to go through and match them to different swatch books, between strand, rosco and lee, and I can tell you thats not fun, and after a few years down the road from now I don`t want to find my self doing this all over again.


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## JChenault (Aug 29, 2013)

soundguy99 said:


> Then in that case it might be worth looking at getting a heat resistant sharpie or marker that would be a bit more permanent and resist the heat better.
> As I said once I mark them from a fresh roll I don`t want those marks to come off, until I throw out the gel itself. I am in the process of trying to sift through a entire filing cabinet of different sizes, manufacture and color of gels, which some have been marked partially marked and no marked at all, and I am trying to go through and match them to different swatch books, between strand, rosco and lee, and I can tell you thats not fun, and after a few years down the road from now I don`t want to find my self doing this all over again.



Well
My personal philosophy on this is "if it's not labeled - it's trash' Life is too short to try and match gel colors.

As for grease pencils rubbing off, I typically find ( especially in the lavenders and blues ) that the color starts fading well before any china marker wears off. As for less fugitive colors, I have some cuts in my file folders over ten years and you can still see the china marker numbers.


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## techieman33 (Aug 29, 2013)

I've never had a problem with china marker or regular sharpie coming off. I usually use a white china marker on darker gels, and black sharpie on lighter gels. Stickers are bad bad bad though. Someone years ago labeled gel with small stickers and while they may have been fine for a while the glue has since dried out for the most part and they constantly fall off.


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 29, 2013)

Label visible in the frame is incredibly useful in rep situations, or when taking a show on the road. Seeing the number of the gel in the frame opening saves time and frustration when trying to get a show in quick, especially if brass brads have been used to keep the frames shut. 

But again, as long as you label it when you cut it, I'll be happy. In-frame is just personal preference. I'll allow Sharpie, but prefer china marker. Something about Sharpie solvents on gel doesn't seem good in my brain.


Of course, some people get too sassy.


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## zmb (Aug 30, 2013)

This just occurred to me, but china marker shows up on well on every color. Standard black sharpie doesn't stand out well at all on darker blues, lavenders, and greens.


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