# ETC Enters LED market with purchase of Selador



## SteveB (Feb 16, 2009)

[IMGR]http://www.etcconnect.com/img/news/NEXTnews_Selador_glam.jpg[/IMGR]ETC announced their purchase of Selador, a move that thrusts ETC boldly into the LED lighting market. ETC purchased Selador's product line, including the Lustr, Paletta, and the newly announced VIVID, which combine the 7x Color System with K2 emitters from Luxeon for an incredibly bright output. 

Selador is known for their innovative LED products, most notably for using seven LED colors (7x Color System) to give incredibly smooth transitions from color to color and excellent saturation. 

The ETC/Selador agreement means that ETC with now own, manufacture, and distribute the Selador product line and will retain Selador co-founders Rob Gerlach and Novella Smith as exclusive consultants to develop more products for the line.

*UPDATE:* Rob Gerlach has posted on ETC's Blog an incredible article on some of the finer points of the Selador 7 Color System and gives on additional insight into why the ETC/Selador deal is such a great pairing.


----------



## icewolf08 (Feb 16, 2009)

here is the official press release:

*ETC enters LED lighting market! 441MN*


After long speculation about whether ETC would enter the LED market, we are announcing our acquisition of the Selador™ LED product line from Selador co-founders Rob Gerlach and Novella Smith. 

Read the full Selador launch story on our redesigned Web site home page. 

In ETC CEO Fred Foster’s words, “We didn’t want to make a ‘me too’ RGB or RGBA product that didn’t provide the kind of significant innovation in lighting we strive for. With its exclusive x7 Color System™, the Selador product line produces a far superior quality of color and light to anything that we had seen before in LEDs. We also benefit from the brainpower of Selador’s Novella and Rob – great people who will join our ETC team.” 

Selador’s x7 Color System seven-hue technology produces a light and color quality that conventional LED systems cannot duplicate. This unique color system produces bright broad spectrum whites and intense colors equally well, rendering pigments and skin tones in a more natural way. Read Rob Gerlach’s explanation of the x7 Color System difference on our Light Minds blog. 

The Selador x7 Color System also finds its perfect counterpart in our ETC control-system offerings, which make control of LED fixtures easier, more direct and user friendly. We have already integrated color matching and HSI (hue, saturation and intensity) control of Selador products into the latest software releases of our Eos® and Congo® lighting control console lines. Our architectural systems will follow shortly, and we will continue to innovate in the areas of color management in these products. 

Selador’s LED line-up includes the Paletta™ and Lustr™ products, just introduced at LDI 2008. Paletta fixtures’ unique blend of seven colors of LEDs was selected to provide the depth of color that designers are used to from their favorite saturated gels. The Lustr line uses a different blend of colors optimized for producing broad spectrum whites and tinted colors – solving the traditional LED problem of making people look unnatural. 

ETC is also debuting the latest Selador product: the high-output color-mixing Vivid™ LED fixture series. The Vivid series combines the Selador x7 Color System with powerful K2 emitters from Luxeon™, for the highest output available. Vivid LED fixtures provide high brightness and intense colored lighting for much longer throws, while matching and blending with gel colors and tungsten fixtures. 

Get the full product specs and details on our new Selador Series product pages. 

You’ll also have a chance to see and demo our new Selador products in person at USITT and NAB!​


----------



## Pie4Weebl (Feb 16, 2009)

so its only a matter of time for an LED S4 par isn't it? oooh the possibilities!


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Feb 16, 2009)

I'm excited.


----------



## Kelite (Feb 16, 2009)

Congrats to you Steve Terry, and the rest of the ETC crew! 

All our best wishes for a long and happy relationship with the Selador staff and product line (with more to come I'm sure).


----------



## Les (Feb 16, 2009)

gafftaper's LED Source Four lamp cap may be closer than we think!


----------



## soundlight (Feb 16, 2009)

It's not gonna be LED, it's gonna be Plasma/LIFI technology. That's the next white light source revolution.


----------



## MSLD (Feb 16, 2009)

would the LED strips possibly be a good replacement for traditional cyc lights? if they havent already.


----------



## jmabray (Feb 16, 2009)

From Rob's Blog post at Light Minds Think Alike:


> There are other components of Selador fixtures that are critical for them to look natural to the eye and seamless next to conventional fixtures in a rig. Selador fixtures have newly redesigned circuitry within them that allows for exceptionally smooth, analog-looking dimming. I have to say that this was surprisingly difficult to achieve with a light source as responsive and non-analog as an LED, but I am extremely pleased with the results. Selador is also known for terrific beam-shaping capabilities. No, we don’t yet have a Selador ellipsoidal *(it will come)* but the fixtures we do have can be shaped very nicely with specialized secondary lenses. We get a lot of compliments about this.



The emphasis was added....

Things just got more interesting didn't they....


----------



## ScottT (Feb 16, 2009)

Happy, happy, happy day!


----------



## FoxxDesigns (Feb 16, 2009)

I am counting the days until used CB's get to $250. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to own some of these new ETC products but I can only imagine the new sticker price. 

I can't wait to sub some of these ETC LED's though for the bigger stuff.


----------



## icewolf08 (Feb 17, 2009)

This just occurred to me, one of my local dealers was/is a Selador dealer, but not an ETC dealer. How will this merger affect them?


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 17, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> This just occurred to me, one of my local dealers was/is a Selador dealer, but not an ETC dealer. How will this merger affect them?


The bigger question is how can you not be an ETC dealer and still be inbusiness? 


Les said:


> gafftaper's LED Source Four lamp cap may be closer than we think!


It's better than that, the LED product I've had a rather unhealthy obsession with has been purchased by my favorite manufacturer. It's a beautiful thing. Now if they can only figure out how to squeeze all 7 LEDs in the S4 cap...

Congratulations to our ETC friends. I've been looking at Selador for a long time and it's clearly the best product out there. It's always seemed like they just needed deeper pockets to get the word out about their product (and afford a booth that isn't at the back of the convention hall). With ETC behind their products things are really going to rock.


----------



## MNicolai (Feb 17, 2009)

I spoke with Tom Carlson of ETC today, as I'm headed to ETC within the next month or two, and asked him about the Selador line and if I might be able to see some in action at the HQ. He said that it's hard to tell yet because there's such a high demand to have fixtures out in the field, and nothing has been set in stone in regards to whether or not there will be display models on site at HQ or not. They tried to keep the agreement extremely low-key, and announced the fixture lines almost immediately after the ink dried on all of their paperwork

Tom himself has not seen them in action yet, but he's heard amazing things about them and can't wait to see them. That said, I hope someone sees these soon to let us know how they look. I'd really like to see some photometrics, but that has yet to be posted on the data sheets, which are so young that even the data sheets are plastered with "PRELIMINARY" watermarks on the background.

Spencer Lyons is going to be out here tomorrow so when I see him I'll ask him what he knows about the fixtures and what the odds would be of seeing them in action.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 18, 2009)

The question is does ETC plan to just take what Selador already has created and run with it straight into production or if they are going to stop and do a little redesign work on it. Any of our ETC friends care to comment? 

I've been drooling over Selador products for 3 or 4 years now. They are outstanding... much better whites than other products and perfect color temperature mixes. 

As for Photometrics, Like all LED manufacturers, Selador has always sort of danced around the topic of photometrics a bit. How can you compare conventional photometric data with a Selador set to match Congo Blue or Medium Red? It's not fair. You could compare to white but which white? Which color temperature? I'm sure ETC will try to create some photometric data but it's very hard to do with any sort of logical accuracy.


----------



## MNicolai (Feb 18, 2009)

Ever get the feeling people can read your mind, only to find out there's an intricately connected web of people keeping tabs on you and your interests? That's ETC.

I can only assume it was Steve who set it up, but it could have been Sarah, Dave, or any of our many other ETC lurkers. Today Spencer Lyons showed up to give a training session on the Congo Jr. for some of our students and to my surprise, arrived with a Selador Vivid. Apparently someone saw my post last night, took the fixture to Spencer, and had him bring it out today to show off.

I tried to take photos, but they did not turn out(not that I expected them to, and even if they had, they do little justice). I did however hold a quick shootout that anyone can set up on their own to get an idea for the brightness. I used L119 as my benchmark in a 575w S4 PAR with a NSP lens, and used the same color as is programmed on the Congo palette for L119 on the 11" Vivid fixture. The output at a distance of ~20-25' onto our projection screen was almost exactly identical. If I only saw the pools of light and was told to guess which one was incandescent and which was LED, I would've had to have flipped a coin to choose one or over the other because they were so close to one another. The 231W of LED's compared against the 575W of tungsten incandescent could have had me at a total loss for words.

The fixtures are so new that it sounded like this one had been hidden in the depths of their HQ in a super secret room. They have not even decided on an MSRP yet, but Spencer did speculate next week possibly they will have something arranged.

As for the speculation for the LED ellipsoidal, Spencer had seen that blog as well, and noted that the laws of physics may yet prevent that from happening for quite some while, as LED's can not be packed into such a small area and be any kind of point source. That said, he didn't sound as if there were actually plans in the works yet for anything of that nature, although I'm sure it's been talked about in meetings. Until then, they have the perfect product for a PAR that never needs new lamps or gels. I think the only reason they haven't announced the development of an LED PAR yet is because they are working absolutely as hard as they can to get these borderlight fixtures released, but I wouldn't be too surprised for them to be announced in the not-too-distant future. 

The only _serious_ roadblock that I see is that the Selador fixtures were not inherently cheap to begin with, so even if ETC develops LED PAR's, it'd be hard to say how they would priced, and I doubt it would be anywhere near comparable to the S4 PAR. Just the 11" X-7 sold retailed for $1460. Granted though, Spencer did mention that the two inventors were having issues starting their business originally. His example was if you purchased fixtures from them, you may have to pay part of it up front so they could afford the materials to actually create the product. I don't know how long ago that still held relevant, but I wonder if ETC being involved will help to bring that price down at all.

Between acquiring Selador, preparing to release another console, and having just released the Unison Paradigm, ETC seems to be as productive as ever, especially given the economy. Tom Carlson told me a few days ago that ETC has, as of now, been rather unafflicted by the economic downturn, but they are prepared for the worst. I don't know exactly what they've done to ensure that, but I trust that they'll continue to thrive.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention that the fixture he brought us was lovingly marked as being of the Vivid series by what looked like it could have been a silver Sharpie. That tells me that before they actually ship anything, there are still a number of things that have to happen yet, but it sounds like they're coming along quickly.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 18, 2009)

MNicolai said:


> Ever get the feeling people can read your mind, only to find out there's an intricately connected web of people keeping tabs on you and your interests? That's ETC. I can only assume it was Steve who set it up, but it could have been Sarah, Dave, or any of our many other ETC lurkers.



I had a similar experience when a S4 Par arrived without the little bolt that attaches the yoke to the fixture. I sent Steve a PM asking for the best person to contact for a replacement part. The next morning someone from ETC was calling me at home to arrange next day delivery!!! I have NO idea how they got my phone number. While the 24/7 customer service number is impressive, it's nothing compared to the "we will find you at home and make sure you get what you need the next day" service I received thanks to ST and our ETC friends here on CB.

...and in the equal time department. Although they only have one active member here, Strand reads CB too. I posted a complaint about a problem I had and received a MASSIVE response (including flying a guy from Toronto to Seattle on short notice). While they didn't call me at home when I was barely out of the shower, they were very quick at figuring out who I was and getting back to me through my regional sales rep.


----------



## David Ashton (Feb 19, 2009)

"As for the speculation for the LED ellipsoidal, Spencer had seen that blog as well, and noted that the laws of physics may yet prevent that from happening for quite some while, as LED's can not be packed into such a small area and be any kind of point source."
And when I posted similar sentiments last year I was pounced on as having no imagination and not being able to be forward looking.
A re-read of Conventional Fixtures - LEDs for the theatre is still illuminating.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Feb 19, 2009)

What I wonder about, is why would they need to pack the LED's into a point source? Would it be possible to use a system of condenser lenses to get the unified beam needed, or might that make the unit too bulky.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 19, 2009)

From what I saw at LDI, plasma seems like a strong possibility for a point source for an ellipsoidal. On the other hand there is also the 100 watt LED from Neo-Neon. If they can build a 100, why not a 200 watt single LED? It'll be a long time, if ever, until we see a color mixing LED ellipsoidal. But I'm not giving up on the single white LED or plasma ellipsoidal just yet. 


gafftapegreenia said:


> What I wonder about, is why would they need to pack the LED's into a point source? Would it be possible to use a system of condenser lenses to get the unified beam needed, or might that make the unit too bulky.


Yeah that's what I'm thinking. Maybe my dream of the ETC LED replacement cap is impossible. However, by using a different combination of lens and reflector, physics would be happy to help us merge multiple sources into one single focusable beam.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Feb 19, 2009)

It ought to be possible with a single biconvex lens between the LED array and the gobo slot and no reflector, but I haven't done the math to confirm it.


----------



## ruinexplorer (Feb 19, 2009)

The bigger problem I see is that everyone is looking for LEDs to replace incandescent lamps. The issue (beyond luminance) is that they do not represent the full color spectrum (see Light-emitting diode - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). While you can mix the colors on a white background to fool our eyes to believe that there is any color possibility, you may have some suprising results when lighting colored sets and costumes. Even the RGBW LED fixtures have gaps in the spectrum. 

So, before everyone goes and puts on their wish lists to replace all incandescent fixtures with LEDs, consider what you're lighting. 

Also, with the plasma source, you are then required to have an external douser similar to an HID source. What I like about them is that they have a wonderful color temperature, but you are getting a much different dimming solution. If you are using a wash fixture, it's less of an issue than when using an elipsoidal which will make the dousing more apparent. What they weren't able to tell us at LDI about the plasma source is how much RF interferrence they create (they know that they do emit some RF). That will affect audio and video running near those fixtures (more than just the normal 60 cycle hum). I was also concerned that actors sometimes have a hard enough time finding their light from an incandescent source that provides heat and those lamps were so darn cool. ;^)


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 28, 2009)

I've been in Lust with Selador for some time now. When ETC purchased Selador I was thrilled. I still don't own any but I'm working on it. I just got some pricing info on Selador by ETC. I do have hard numbers but I'm going to be a little vague to keep my sources happy with me. How much will they actually cost you? Call your favorite ETC dealer to find out. If you are unfamiliar with how pricing works in the industry please see this article.

There are now three models of Seladors:
Lustr with 2.5 watt Rebel LED's that are optimized for pastels and whites
Paletta with 2.5 watt Rebel LED's the middle ground for pastels and colors... probably the one you want for live theater
Vivid with 3.5 watt Rebel LED's optimized for heavily saturated colors. 

The List prices on the 11" fixtures comes in around $1200-$1500 with Paletta the cheapest, Lustr just slightly more and Vivid on top of the range. The largest 53" models list for around $6,000-$6750. 

With the original Selador products the price was pretty straight forward per foot with little or no variation in "dollars per inch of fixture" (i.e. the 4' version would cost 4 times the 1' version). When I look at the new list prices and calculate "dollars per inch of fixture" there is now a definite savings in buying larger fixtures. For example, buying one 53" Paletta will save you a little over 10% over the cost of buying five 11" models. Thanks ETC. 

ETC apparently decided to go à la Carte with accessories. The fixture comes with a bare Neutrik PowerCon connection, no pigtail, no yoke, no c-clamp, no floor trunions, no diffusion lenses. This seemed odd to me at first but there are a wide variety of possible configuration options. If they gave you everything the price would be rather high for things you don't need. Selador used to charge over $150 for the complete lens kit now they are available individually for less than $20. So I suppose it's better this way. From what I've learned I think the typical user will probably add around $100-$150 in accessories for a typical hanging 11" fixture. 

_Shut up Gaff, how much is it going to cost on the street?_ I don't want to make my friends unhappy so again I will be vague here. I got a quote on 11" Palettas. If you add a Yoke, C-clamp, PowerCon to Edison pig tale, two horizontal lenses, and two vertical lenses. You can expect to pay around $1100-$1200 per fixture (no shipping or tax included in that). Taking the list prices my other source gave me and applying what I learned from the price quote on the 11" Paletta I would predict the street price on the 21" Palette with accessories to be around $2k and the 53" Paletta to be in the low to mid $5k range. Again you need to get a quote from your ETC dealer to find out how much they will cost you.  

Over all there is a nice drop in price and an increase in output over the original Selador's. I'm going to guess that the new Vivids, with their 2.5 watt Rebel LED's, will match if not outperform the original 3 watt Selador X7-Xtras, with their K2 emitters. The old X7-Xtras had a street price about $1500 per foot with all the accessories. The most expensive model in the new line, Vivid at 3.5 watts Rebel LED’s, is going to outperform that old model significantly and cost around $1k less for the largest model. 

Two years ago I was quoted about $60k to light a 40’ cyc (to a level that won’t instantly wash out) using Selador X7-Xtras. Thanks to the new higher output LED’s and with the pricing drop that cyc is probably going to cost at least $10k-$15k less to light today. The light from these fixtures is amazingly beautiful. The colors created by the 7 color mixing system are so much more vibrant than anything else on the market. Get a demo you have to see these things in action. 

I’m really excited about what the next five to ten years has in store for us as the technology gets even better and the prices come down further.


----------



## David Ashton (Mar 28, 2009)

So to light a cyc is there now an assymetrical lens system one can fit to these units?


----------



## jmabray (Mar 28, 2009)

There is a lensing system that will allow you to spread the beam from 20 to 80 degrees either Horizontal or Vertical (Or both if you put one of each lens on the front of the fixture).

The only thing I want to correct from Gaff's statments above is that 1) the Vivid's are probably what you want in live theatre rather than the Paletta's. And that the Vivids are 3.5watt LED's. (In one of his last paragraphs there is some confusion as to what power of LEDs each model is using....)


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 28, 2009)

Having played with a Vivid unit at USITT, I'll stand by my statement that the only current LED fixture I would use to light people is the CK *iW Blast 12 TR*. I did achieve a marginally acceptable "white" from a Vivid, but it took some futzing, and was more involved than just Colors 1>[email protected]


----------



## jmabray (Mar 28, 2009)

What were you using to get the white? Just curious as most control consoles are not set up to do 7 color mixing and don't know how to handle it. (Even the EOS/ION line can't do it just right yet as I understand it). The only console that really knows what to do with them is a Congo.

As for the CK, of course it is a good "white" fixture. It's only got white LED's. Try getting an R80 or R26 out of it...  Anything with Multiple colors of LED mixing to get white is going to take some futzing.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 28, 2009)

jmabray said:


> What were you using to get the white?...


An EOS (with the most current software revision). No problems with either the color picker or the color mixing. Unlike most RGB fixtures whose white is too pink, the Vivid was too blue with all colors at full. IIRC, running the indigo at 50% and the blue at about 80% seemed to make a better 3200 K, SourceFour "white," but with a loss of intensity.


----------



## icewolf08 (Mar 28, 2009)

The other good thing about ETC's acquisition of Selador is that you no longer will have a 12 week lead-time with 50% deposit before your order is constructed in someone's garage. So, while it is a bummer that we are loosing a Salt Lake City based company, it will be a lot easier to get the product!


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 28, 2009)

Below are some summary quotes from the ETC website. 

_"Lustr™ is the white light specialist in the Selador™ Series. Think watercolors – warm or cool pure white light slowly evolving into the softest tints and color shadings. In Lustr, the x7 Color System™ is optimized to produce theatrical-quality whites and tints that render pigments and skintones in their natural appearance. For key and fill light applications the Lustr features a yoke for one- and two-cell fixtures as well as frosted optics for a soft beam of light that blends well with your existing Source Fours®. The Lustr’s subtle tinting capability is also the perfect solution for lighting scenery." _

_"Paletta™ is the jewel-tone specialist in the Selador™ Series. Think artist’s pastels – deep, rich colors softly washing and blending. Paletta combines the x7 Color System™ and a finely-tuned array of Luxeon® Rebel LEDs with soft diffused optics to offer an incredible range of richly saturated color and pastels simply not available in conventional LED fixtures. Go ahead and dig deep into your swatch book for your favorite magentas and lavenders – Paletta is there to deliver."_
 _
"VIVID™ is the color and intensity powerhouse in the Selador™ Series. Think oil paints – a luminaire with the kind of brilliant, bold saturated color that only LEDs can deliver. VIVID’s mix of high-power Luxeon® K2 LEDs is specially balanced for maximum color production with a strong, cutting beam of light. And, with the low-heat output of the Selador Series, you can have your colors blazing, without ever over-heating your talent."_

Derek: Vivid is definitely not the right one to be trying to make a good white with you want Lustr or maybe Paletta. The old Selador's had the ability to make a very good mix of white color temperatures... did you ever make it back to their booth at LDI and see the color temp demo or did you get distracted by the nearby ETC Lounge? I'm guessing that Paletta is close to the original Selador X7 color saturation mix. They clearly cranked up the saturation to make Vivid and toned it down for Lustr. It would be interesting to get a comment from one of our ETC friends about how they compare to the originals as far as color saturation and intensity. 

Jmabray: From these descriptions it sounds like Lustr is the choice for key and fill. Paletta a good choice for sides and down. Vivid the choice for back, cycs, and concert lighting.


----------



## jmabray (Mar 28, 2009)

Yeah, your're right. I am thinking Vivid for Cycs and the like, but only because that is where they will most likely make the inroads in to a theatre near you first....


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 29, 2009)

jmabray said:


> Yeah, your're right. I am thinking Vivid for Cycs and the like, but only because that is where they will most likely make the inroads in to a theatre near you first....



Very True. LED's can perform on a CYC in ways that incandescent light can only dream of. 

On the other hand there was that recent story of the school district going green and "upgrading" to all Chauvet LED instruments.  I think there is a lot of traction out there in educational world especialy to bring in green solutions. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of Lustr moving off the shelf for small educational theater setups. I've got an 8x12 stage here at the college in the new student union. They want a nice wash and the ability to do some color if they book a SMALL band. They are eager to be green and use LED's. I'm thinking a combination of Lustr and Paletta with an Element. I'll program 40 color combination on an Element in all submaster mode and they will be VERY happy.


----------



## David Ashton (Mar 29, 2009)

"Very True. LED's can perform on a CYC in ways that incandescent light can only dream of."

Like a flat, even cover from top to bottom.


----------



## SteveB (Mar 29, 2009)

David Ashton said:


> "Very True. LED's can perform on a CYC in ways that incandescent light can only dream of."
> 
> Like a flat, even cover from top to bottom.



At ten times the cost, for 1/10 the power. 

Glad I don't have to figure out where the break even point is.

SB


----------



## icewolf08 (Mar 29, 2009)

I did get to see some of the 11" ETC Selador units at the tradeshow here in SLC last week. I have to say, while the color mixing is nice, even 4 of them with spreader lenses couldn't give nearly enough coverage to put an even wash on the 10' ETC booth's backdrop (maybe 8-10' wide by 8' tall. Without a lens they almost give a beam distribution like a PAR64 ACL. Does anyone know the efficiency of the lenses, because it seems like you stand to loose a lot of light with them. Also, the 4 units could not compete with the overhead fluorescents, so how do they compete with stage lights? Every time I see these fixtures, I wonder when they will really be ready for full scale theatrical implementation.


----------



## jmabray (Mar 29, 2009)

SteveB said:


> At ten times the cost, for 1/10 the power.
> 
> Glad I don't have to figure out where the break even point is.
> 
> SB



Actually, I was doing some cost comparisons with a consultant friend of mine. It was almost a wash on a new install when you consider the cost of the dimmers, wire, conduit, electrician, fixtures etc, on a new install. That didn't really include the energy, gel, lamp etc savings over the life of the installation...

(of course YMMV depending upon fixture, manufacturer, Electrician costs, etc)


----------



## MNicolai (Mar 29, 2009)

jmabray said:


> Actually, I was doing some cost comparisons with a consultant friend of mine. It was almost a wash on a new install when you consider the cost of the dimmers, wire, conduit, electrician, fixtures etc, on a new install. That didn't really include the energy, gel, lamp etc savings over the life of the installation...
> 
> (of course YMMV depending upon fixture, manufacturer, Electrician costs, etc)



I'm in charge of an electrical renovation at a nearby 150-seat community theatre, and it probably will be much cheaper to purchase all LED's than the long-term expenses of incandescents, plus having to upgrade the service to the building. Right now, I'm thinking a hybrid system of partially incandescents, but the washes and general lighting via Selador. I'm still waiting to hear back from Rob Gerlach and Dave Lincecum on what their thoughts are though, as they know the Selador line better than anyone else right now.

I have consultants and electricians walking the space in mid-April, and after I've done that and we've weighed the pro's and con's, I'll get back to you. We're looking to make this a real "going green" project though, so all of the lighting in the building, not just theatrical, will be redone, and we're also exploring throwing solar panels on the roof. Everything said and done, I hope this theatre can stand to be a model for energy efficiency in the entertainment industry. However it's going to be very expensive, both for the LED's and for the lighting in the building, and also the solar, so with that large up-front price tag, I'll spend two or three weeks in the next few months just applying for grants.


----------



## David Ashton (Mar 30, 2009)

Using leds you have no fresnels and no profiles and no cyc lights, in the sense of an even cover from top to bottom, apart from that they're great.
And please don't tell me about the great new cyc lights, just post a picture of an evenly lit cyc, I have yet to see one.
It's really a throw-back to the old days of x-rays giving a base wash and adding in spotlights,
Now if you want a real revolution look at this,
http://www.robe.cz/default.aspx?con...3&newsid=b07b582d-ac8a-4e7c-a31d-e283b9ad207f


----------



## icewolf08 (Mar 30, 2009)

David Ashton said:


> Using leds you have no fresnels and no profiles and no cyc lights, in the sense of an even cover from top to bottom, apart from that they're great.
> And please don't tell me about the great new cyc lights, just post a picture of an evenly lit cyc, I have yet to see one.
> It's really a throw-back to the old days of x-rays giving a base wash and adding in spotlights,
> Now if you want a real revolution look at this,
> Robe lighting - Robe Launches new Robin moving light range at Prolight + Sound 2009



I am with David on this one. I have yet to see an LED cyc fixture that can do even as well as MR-16 Zip-Strips. Also, you may get a lower wattage, but boy lemme tell you, you get plenty of heat off the 11" ETC Selador model, so the bigger brothers must get really hot.

I do think that the LiFi plasma lamp technology has more potential to make it into widespread use before LED. However, I have heard that at least SeaChanger is having issues getting the Nemo UL listed. I don't know about Robe. Once they conquer that barrier though, I think we will start seeing way more plasma powered devices than LEDs.

Don't get me wrong, the Selador product is a great product, but personally, I don't know if it is ready for theatrical applications.


----------



## LDSLD (Apr 4, 2009)

Well, I hate to disagree, but...

as the user of about 460 feet of Selador LED lighting, they seem quite usable in theatrical and broadcast applications. Using a combination of vertical and horizontal lensing, a very even, 3 row wash has been created for a cyc in one of the venues I work in. The biggest problem we have, and had before the LEDs, was that the surface of the cyc we use (being a white wall) is not perfectly smooth nor flat, creating some shadowing. The LEDs are so bright that we typically run them at far less than full intensity, particularly in video applications. 

The lack of a console with a mixing engine that appropriately deals with 7 colors is not much of a problem, in fact it is a bit more liberating because I can create, IMHO, better mixes of color than I think the computer can. These get dumped into palettes. 

Before the installation in the current venue, we tested them in a far more conventional theater and were so pleased we intend to install them in that venue and in some of our other venues as soon as is reasonable. 

Having used both standard cyc lights and the LEDs, I think I would go LED almost every time. So many more options, it looks and mixes so much better, and the maintainance time and costs are non-existant. The extra colors of the Selador make the looks just that more stunning.


----------



## David Ashton (Apr 4, 2009)

Excellent, would you be kind enough to send us a photograph of your "very even 3 way wash", as this is what I have never seen.


----------



## LDSLD (Apr 5, 2009)

These are not great photos, just some I found on the internet. One is before the LEDs and one is after. As you can see the surface is a dome, and the dome is far from wrinkle free, which is very challenging when wrapping the strait LED units around the curve. I have, somewhere, pictures of the same fixtures placed up against a typical theater cyc prior to being installed in the Tabernacle, which I will try to post, as that is more of what you are insterested in. Also, I will go take a few nicer photos of the current rig, particularly showing the 3 rows, and upload them shortly. 

If you do a google image search for Mormon Tabernacle, anything before 1997 is standard incandescent and after 1997 is LED Selador fixtures for the cyc.

Hope this helps.


----------

