# Selling pictures from poms competitions



## FACTplayers (Dec 18, 2011)

This thread is NOT concerned with any legal issues on selling photos. I want to know if it is a feasible task on a budget.

What I want is to take pictures of our high school and middle school poms competitions and sell them. We already have a Nikon and Canon DSLR camera (not sure of exact models off hand). What we would like to do is have two people taking pictures of the dances. Then either have a runner grab the SD cards (or use a wireless SD card to transmit to the computer). Once at the computer I would like to display all of the pictures by automatically rotating them like they do at theme parks. Then from there the parents will select the pictures they want and we will print them off and sell them. 

What I'm not 100% sure on is how to display the pictures and ensure a smooth and seamless process. Any suggestions?

I have access to a few mac computers along with some old "PC" hardware.


----------



## cpf (Dec 18, 2011)

I've actually done the first part of this before for a conference-y thing, I got an Eye-Fi card (the cheapest one), set up a private Wi-Fi network, and had the computer doing the projection automatically rotate the last 5-10 images taken in a slideshow shown on big projection screens around the room.

I'd suggest getting a recent Eye-Fi card(s) and a good router (you don't want anyone else on the network so slow down the picture transfers). Set the cards to upload all, so the photographers can concentrate on getting good photos, and assign someone to sit at the computer, watch the incoming pictures and drop the good ones into a separate folder for display.

However, parents would most likely glance at the slideshow to evaluate the quality of the pictures, then walk up to the operator to ask about photos with "their kid," so here's what I would do: Set up the slideshow on a nice large screen, then have a separate "viewing station" where the user can interactively view the latest photos and write down the names of the ones they'd like to purchase. I've never done what I'm describing, but Adobe Lightroom ($300, a bit steep for this!) can automatically take new photos from a folder and display them in a nice & clean thumbnail grid, along with showing a 2nd-monitor fullscreen live view of them. 

Also, make sure your photo printer is fast! I've seen setups like this with the printer running at <3PPM, with a huge lineup of customers waiting for their pictures.


----------



## Footer (Dec 18, 2011)

Eye-Fi cards are the way to go. They do have a new version that I just got that can hook up to your phone and upload that way. Beyond that, get a smug mug account and put everything up there after the fact. You can set the price, people can order, and you essentially just get money put into your account. Not a bad way to go!


----------



## jstroming (Dec 18, 2011)

Here's what you want to do. Do not do pictures in a slideshow format as your main format for displaying the pictures.....what are the chances that each groups pictures will be up when someone from that group walks by? Obviously not likely, so you need to give the customer the ability to choose pictures to look at.

What you want to do is have a single folder on the desktop saying "DOUBLE CLICK HERE TO START" or similar. You can get funky with a desktop background picture with a bullseye around the folder, your logo, etc. Then inside that folder, will be a bunch of folders with groups name on it. Inside each of these folders will be the pictures from that group, or if each group has multiple routines you can do a subset of folders with routine name, then the pictures from that routine.

As the customer double clicks the picture, "preview" will open on a mac, or "photo viewer" or similar on a PC, which the client can then cycle through, find the pics they like, write the numbers down, then order them.

As far as your back end goes, you can hook up the computers via network, and all the folders on the desktop can be shortcuts to the network folder on your main server where you transfer all the pics from memory card. If your network starts to lag, you can either copy the pics directly to each computer, or use a software like "folderclone" which will copy that master folder on your main server to each computer via the network. This will solve your network lag issues.

The other option (if you have internet access) is to use a site like photoreflect, where you can upload the photos as the event is happening, and people can do all of their ordering directly from the laptops, crop them, color correct them, and they take care of all billing, etc, for a nominal fee, i think like 5% of the sale.

If you're doing printing on-site, I recommend the Sony UPDR200 for 4x6 & 5x7, and the Shinko CHC-S1245 for 8x10's. I own 3 of each on different shows and they are both awesome printers. I do production for touring dance conventions & competitions which utilize a system very similar to what I explained above. We shoot around 30,000 pics per show per weekend!


----------



## FACTplayers (Dec 18, 2011)

I was considering an eye-fi card to transmit the pictures. I do agree that will be the best and fastest way to get the pictures to the computer. I also have Adobe Lightroom already (score!).

To blend all of the idea together because like parts of each. I think a large screen scrolling the last few images would be a great way to attract people and demonstrate the quality. I also like jstroming's idea of using a central hub (lets call that my server) to actually store the images and then use other machines to let the customer browse the catalog of pictures.

I was considering using some type of website (I was thinking flickr but I'll have to look at photoreflect and smug mug). Would you think most people would order prints or want them printed there? I think the majority of people will want instant prints.


----------



## Footer (Dec 19, 2011)

jstroming said:


> If you're doing printing on-site, I recommend the Sony UPDR200 for 4x6 & 5x7, and the Shinko CHC-S1245 for 8x10's. I own 3 of each on different shows and they are both awesome printers. I do production for touring dance conventions & competitions which utilize a system very similar to what I explained above. We shoot around 30,000 pics per show per weekend!


 
Wow, I just felt the need to cut myself a little!

Personally, I think your going to get a mixture of both people that want them now and people that will want them later. Smug Mug will cost you less then a hundred dollars a year and will pay for itself... and it looks stellar. Anyone can order any photo and have them sent anywhere... photos sent grandma, etc. You could also just set up the computers and have smug mug uploading and organizing right there... and they can order right there and have them sent to their house.


----------



## jstroming (Dec 19, 2011)

99% of my customers want them on-site. If they want them shipped, there is a shipping fee, which most people would rather not pay. The only exception is people who have to leave immediately, which counts for a tiiiiiiny fraction of people.

No one I know of in my industry uses the Eye-Fi card because we usually dont have access to the venue's network. Some of these theaters/hotels/conv centers etc. can charge upwards of $1000/day for internet. If you are in a high school/college setting and have network access than it sounds like a good idea.

My other concern with the wifi is network speed....if your shooting in the middle of a gym or theater where there isn't a strong network connection, how will that affect your playout? At the rate which these will be shot (my photographers shoot between 60-100 pics over a 3 minute routine) what happens to those pics that dont get transferred if there is a network slowdown?

Just some food for thought!


----------



## jstroming (Dec 19, 2011)

I was just browsing the Eye-Fi forums....apparently you can't shoot pictures while the images are transferring....will this work in your environment??


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 19, 2011)

Which is why a seperate show router was suggested.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## jstroming (Dec 19, 2011)

Yes setting up your own network would solve that internet issue. I think you will still have major lag issues, regardless of whether you use your own network or the venue's.


----------



## DuckJordan (Dec 19, 2011)

With any newer router running wireless n or even g you will be completely fine. I have my home computers running independantly but my mouse and keyboard can control any one of them with me just moving my cursor to their screen. Also have used the network at the local c center to transfer live video with roughly 50ms delay. Network speed isn't the issue it will be allowing people to select view and modify photos while still slowing multiple connections and a professional look.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


----------



## Morte615 (Dec 19, 2011)

Showtime Pictures ... We Capture Life, One Smile at a Time

Most likely more than you are looking for but exactly what you are asking for! 

I am sure systems like this can be rented for events, just not sure where to start looking!


----------



## FACTplayers (Dec 20, 2011)

jstroming said:


> I was just browsing the Eye-Fi forums....apparently you can't shoot pictures while the images are transferring....will this work in your environment??


 
Since it can't shoot and upload at the same time, how long will it take to upload an image via a wireless N router. This router will have two cameras connected transmitting back to a single computer. No one else will be on the network and it will not be connected to the cloud. If we were to shoot all of the pictures (lets say 15 - 20 per routine), would we have enough time to upload them all from the card to the computer in a 2 min (max) change of dance teams?


----------



## cpf (Dec 21, 2011)

One thing with Eye-Fi cards is that they're really finicky about the distance from the router, interference, etc. This could easily catch you unprepared on the day-of, so beforehand testing is a requirement, plus have a backup plan in place in case wireless transfers start to bog down. Eye-fi cards do seem to be able to upload while you're shooting, though.

Also, I'm not sure the setup here in terms of mobility for the photographers, but if these cameras are worth their salt they'll have a USB tethered mode that lets you transfer direct to computer. Get a long enough USB cable, a laptop, and lots of rubber bands so the cable stays connected to the camera, and you can bypass the Eye-Fi entirely and have photos go direct from the camera to a networked share, transmitted using a WiFi antenna a few hundred times larger than an Eye-Fi's.




Or you can just run the SD cards back to the front desk, but man, where's the fun in that?


----------



## FACTplayers (Dec 21, 2011)

cpf said:


> Also, I'm not sure the setup here in terms of mobility for the photographers, but if these cameras are worth their salt they'll have a USB tethered mode that lets you transfer direct to computer. Get a long enough USB cable, a laptop, and lots of rubber bands so the cable stays connected to the camera, and you can bypass the Eye-Fi entirely and have photos go direct from the camera to a networked share, transmitted using a WiFi antenna a few hundred times larger than an Eye-Fi's.


 

The cameras do have the USB tether mode which I might have to use since I just found out we will be placed in the cafeteria. The required length of ethernet cable has got to be longer than 100 yards which, if I remember correctly, is the max a cat5e cable can run before it requires a signal booster.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get the pictures back to the server without tethering to a laptop or running the SD cards? I just want to weigh all my options.


----------



## FACTplayers (Dec 22, 2011)

I picked up two eye-fi cards today. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but the pictures either take a very long time to begin transferring or they never even try. Any other suggestions?


----------



## BurkeTheJerk (Dec 22, 2011)

FACTplayers said:


> Since it can't shoot and upload at the same time, how long will it take to upload an image via a wireless N router. This router will have two cameras connected transmitting back to a single computer. No one else will be on the network and it will not be connected to the cloud. If we were to shoot all of the pictures (lets say 15 - 20 per routine), would we have enough time to upload them all from the card to the computer in a 2 min (max) change of dance teams?



Maybe this has changed since then, but I remember once reading that Eye-Fi sends the pictures to the cloud then downloaded to your computer, not directly to your computer on the same network. Correct me if I'm wrong?


----------



## cpf (Dec 23, 2011)

They send direct to your PC if you're not using any of their fancy FTP or online sharing modes.


----------

