# College student dies in scissor lift accident



## derekleffew

Story here: Investigation underway in fatal accident at Notre Dame practice - wsbt.com


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## gafftapegreenia

I saw this on Sports Center today. They said that the winds were 50 MPH+ and the lift was only rated for use in winds up to 25 MPH. Also before the crash, Sullivan apparently Tweeted, "this is terrifying". 

Can't wait to see how big the lawsuit settlement is.


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## Footer

The practice of using scissor lifts to film practices is extremely common, even at some high schools. Hopefully this will cause some stronger rules when it can and can not be used. It just sucks that this kid had to die while doing a job that probably paid minimum wage in a work study situation.


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## mstaylor

This is a prime example of letting people, both instructors and students, using equipment that they probably not properly trained on. A certified operator would have better sense to take a lift up in that kind of wind. 
I just asked my seventeen yr old son if it wise or allowed and he said absolutely not. This is a tragic and needless accident.


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## ruinexplorer

The worst part was the student was too scared (or unable) to come down on his own. Each of us needs to learn our limits to keep ourselves and others safe. This man lift could have potentially injured or killed others as it came crashing down. Too many times technicians take unnecessary risks because "the show must go on", or in this case practice. So we come down to, what is the cost of a human life? When we look back at some recent tragedies in theaters where riggers/electricians have fallen to their death, the end result has been only thousands of dollars. If he had refused to go up, or had come down when he first tweeted about his concerns, he probably would have been written up or fired. So where do you draw the line about when you are concerned for your life versus being afraid of losing employment? I know where I stand.


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## mstaylor

My problem is if you are that concerned, come down. If he was certified he would know the limitations of the equipment, if he wasn't then why was he sent up in the lift? Were any of the instructors certified, if so then they should know not to send him up because he wasn't certified and it was unsafe. If they weren't cartified and the student wasn't then why did they have access to the equipment at all. 
I am not picking or pointing fingers but this was a completely pointless and needless accident. All that was needed was a little common sense and proper training. It is accidents like this that makes for unreasonable requirements on guys that actually do get training and apply it.


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## len

Part of it is that sports is money and schools survive on football. ND being no exception. Sending the inexperienced and untrained into a situation like that is tragic, maybe even criminal. My guess is that no one who had knowledge that they were using lifts had any training on them. Let's face it, at their most basic, a lift is pretty simple to operate. Up, down, steer, go, stop. Basic operation isn't rocket science. Until you learn what you don't know. I use lifts occasionally, but never have used one outdoors. Quite frankly, wind never occurred to me but with the gusts we've had in the midwest lately, I probably would have had second thoughts about being that high in those conditions.


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## mstaylor

As a trainer of equipment, the operation of scissor lifts, man lifts and forks are not difficult. Most anybody can get in one and get from point A to point B, doing it safely is a whole other story. I learned to drive a forklift at fourteen and ran them for years. I ran everything from little ones in warehouses to Gradalls lifting materials multiple stories in the air. After probably 15 years I was told I had to certify, I thought it was stupid, I knew what I was doing. I learned a ton about the counter balance ratios and other really usefull things. I have since certified multiple times on many types of forks and lifts. Refresher courses are a good thing. 
The lift in use here is used every day on every college with a football team. Even marching bands use either a scissor or scaffold. You never hear about problems until somebody does something in a unknown situation and aren't trained to handle it. My boss doesn't understand why I insist on a ground guy whenever I am using our manlift. I broke down the other day and had to be assisted by my ground guy. I imediately called my boss and showed him the situation and why it was important to have the backup guy there. 
I'm not trying to be a jerk or insensitive to the student's death. I am simply trying to say with proper training he would have known how to handle the situation he was in.


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## tjrobb

So... where was the ground crew? AFAIK, all lifts have a manual lowering device on the base of the unit. If I was nearby and saw the student in distress I would have dropped him ASAP. From my experience with the IBEW no one goes up in a lift without human ground support.


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## mstaylor

That would part of the certification process, knowing the importance of the ground guy and the insistance on having him there.


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## len

A follow-up from the Chicago Tribune Notre Dame President says school responsible for football videographer's death - chicagotribune.com


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## Sony

At least they are owning up to it...too many people/corporations try to pass blame onto others to avoid the consequences of their actions I'm glad the Notre Dame administration is taking responsibility for this easily avoidable yet tragic accident. If it's true he was sent up in the lift by a faculty member and not of his own accord then it is definitely the university at fault.


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## dvsDave

Further Followup.

IOSHA (Indiana Occupational Safety and Health Administration) has announced a $77,500 fine levied against Notre Dame, finding Notre Dame at fault for the student's death.

Notre Dame at fault in Sullivan death - College Football News | FOX Sports on MSN


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## mstaylor

It will be interesting to see who gets named in the wrongful death suit, if they just go after the school or if they go after the coaching staff too.


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## len

I read this first in the Tribune, but couldn't find a link. ND has banned the use of these lifts for filming athletic practices. Notre Dame bans use of hydraulic lifts to film football practices after accident :: The Republic


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## ruinexplorer

UPDATE: Notre Dame settles for $42,000.


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## Corey3245

ruinexplorer said:


> UPDATE: Notre Dame settles for $42,000.



That's All!?


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## ruinexplorer

That's the fine, not settlement to the family (which I don't think there is one, other than the memorial fund). The school also has to create an awareness program for other schools in the dangers of mobile lifts.


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## Corey3245

Hmmm. So there isn't a civil suit?


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## MNicolai

Corey3245 said:


> That's All!?



That's a goldmine compared to what happened to a stagehand in Florida. He fell 25' from a catwalk lacking proper safety railings, and the company was only fined $3,675.

Let's also not forget about death of a stagehand in Las Vegas, where the casino only paid out $19,800 and the stage company just $4,000.

It's amazing how much value a life has when it's naturally near the brink of death but how little it has when it's ended prematurely and unnecessarily.


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## derekleffew

Notre Dame starts aerial lift safety program - chicagotribune.com

Up Right : Home


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## derekleffew

Corey3245 said:


> Hmmm. So there isn't a civil suit?


Declan Sullivan's father does not blame Notre Dame - chicagotribune.com


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## gafftaper

That article is AMAZING. 

> "We never really felt a reason to pursue any kind of legal action. Why would you do that? ... We didn't want to take resources and energy away from other positive things that might happen by tying up people with lawsuits and other actions."



http://www.chicagotribune.com/topic/economy-business-finance/forbes.com-llc-ORCRP00607117145.topic

> Forbes.com last year estimated it could cost the university $30 million if Sullivan's parents sued. The mere suggestion seemed unfair to Declan's father.
> 
> The family — whose ties to the campus and its sister school, St. Mary's College, go back several decades — witnessed how much his death distressed the Notre Dame community and had no desire to compound that grief with a lawsuit or public criticism, Barry Sullivan said.




> "We saw people that were obviously suffering," he said. "They felt a great sense of responsibility for what happened. How could we add to their pain with displays of anger or anything like that?"



AMAZING! These people are more concerned about the image of the school and the football program than the loss of their son's life. That's nuts.


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## Nelson

Yes, but in a world where everyone is ready to sue at the drop of a hat, I think it is refreshing to read where the family isn't going to sue in this case. Hopefully the school learned their lesson and will prevent accidents like this in the future. That's all I can ask for!


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## mstaylor

I agree with the family in that suing is not in their nature, I disagree with suing in many cases. However, in this case there was an utter disregard for safety and common sense. As far as wind speed, I teach guys anything over twenty MPH, get on the ground. You can push it with a man lift but not by a lot. The coach says he hasn't considered playing the blame game because he would be in the middle of that circle. 
The problem in most cases of people suing is they would sue the school, coach, lift company and anybody else they could think of. I can see the school, coach and if there was a safety company under contract, them. The lift company has no business there because it didn't fail, it was used improperly.


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## gafftaper

mstaylor said:


> I agree with the family in that suing is not in their nature, I disagree with suing in many cases. However, in this case there was an utter disregard for safety and common sense. As far as wind speed, I teach guys anything over twenty MPH, get on the ground. You can push it with a man lift but not by a lot. The coach says he hasn't considered playing the blame game because he would be in the middle of that circle.
> The problem in most cases of people suing is they would sue the school, coach, lift company and anybody else they could think of. I can see the school, coach and if there was a safety company under contract, them. The lift company has no business there because it didn't fail, it was used improperly.


 
I'm right there with you Michael. I'm not a law suit sort of person... in fact I have recently chosen no to sue a former employer. However this is a situation where a lawsuit is clearly justified. A system with either complete stupidity or complete disregard for this youngman's safety sent him up in that lift. Either way there was a complete breakdown in safety protocols and someone should be penalized so that the University gets the message that safety is THAT important. $40,000 is not enough of a penalty to get the attention of anyone at the University. Unless this becomes a top priority and serious changes are made to campus policy, this will fade from memory, the casual attitude will return, and the possibility of this happening again will slowly return.


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## derekleffew

So I'm going to need several spot ops over the next few weeks...




No pay, but great experience. Any volunteers?


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## gafftaper

I'm eagerly waiting a comment from our friend who works for the rat.


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## mstaylor

So the guy on the right has clue, the guy on the left, not so much. Why the devil would he extend the basket, then put all the weight off center?


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## jxgriffi

mstaylor said:


> So the guy on the right has clue, the guy on the left, not so much. Why the devil would he extend the basket, then put all the weight off center?



Because there's only so much room around the Hub and he needed to make the shot that the DP wanted.


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## derekleffew

mstaylor said:


> So the guy on the right has clue, the guy on the left, not so much. ...


I found a picture on the 'net that I can't post [and have now lost] due to the recognizable logo(s) in the picture. But it shows *four* Supers and *five* operators in *one* lift. I looked up the specs, and the *lamps alone* exceed the weight capacity! Add in five guys at 175-250 lbs/ea (like most house spot ops, they weren't petite gentlemen) and ... How did the lift even raise? Jumping up and down in unison ?


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## mstaylor

derekleffew said:


> I found a picture on the 'net that I can't post [and have now lost] due to the recognizable logo(s) in the picture. But it shows *four* Supers and *five* operators in *one* lift. I looked up the specs, and the *lamps alone* exceed the weight capacity! Add in five guys at 175-250 lbs/ea (like most house spot ops, they weren't petite gentlemen) and ... How did the lift even raise? Jumping up and down in unison ?


Years ago when I was way younger and dumber, I did truss spot on a very well known national act. He had a 40x40 box grid ground supported on Genies and four rear truss spots. It was the shakiest thing I had ever been on and once I knew the ratings of the Genies it as scary.


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## avkid

A 40x40 on SuperTowers?
No thank you!


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## mstaylor

That was my thought after I got up there. I was young enough that I wasn't aware of the Genie rating. It was double hung and four truss spots on basically two lifts. You figure we had 800 lbs in spot ops plus everything else.


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