# best boundary mic?



## chouston (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm looking for opinions for the best, most cost effective boundary mic out there. Good quality with some bang for the buck. I'm a little new to the sound game (knuckle draggin' scenic guy here) and would like some advice for buying a few boundary mics for a small private upper school's theatre department. Thanks in advance for the input.


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## Footer (Apr 22, 2010)

PCC160 is the industry standard mic out there. There is no such thing as a great sounding boundary mic, but these will help the overall stage level a bit. Getting good headroom out of them is not an easy thing.


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## DaveySimps (Apr 22, 2010)

The Crown PCC 160's are the industry standard, and are great mics. I would also recommend the Bartlett TM-125C. They are smaller, and at about $210 ea., they are cheaper than the PCC 160's. They were designed by Bruce Bartlett and others who invented the PCC for crown.

~Dave

Bartlett Microphones in Elkhart, Indiana - home page


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## museav (Apr 22, 2010)

Also look at this, Bartlett Microphones in Elkhart, Indiana - home page. If it looks eerily similar to the PCC-160 that's not because it's a cheap knock-off but rather because they share the same creator.


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## Footer (Apr 22, 2010)

museav said:


> Also look at this, Bartlett Microphones in Elkhart, Indiana - home page. If it looks eerily similar to the PCC-160 that's not because it's a cheap knock-off but rather because they share the same creator.



Are they any better/worse? Is the cable a bit more substantial? The price is right.


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## gafftaper (Apr 23, 2010)

Just remember even the great PCC160 can be overwhelmed by the sound of foot steps. If you have a hollow "clompy" stage you are going to hate what you get from the boundary mics. Personally I'm more of a fan of using things like shot guns and hanging choir type mics. You will still pick up a lot, you can leave them installed all the time, and you don't have to listen to every foot step. 

On the other hand if you are doing a tap show the PCC 160 can't be beat.


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## avkid (Apr 23, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> Just remember even the great PCC160 can be overwhelmed by the sound of foot steps. If you have a hollow "clompy" stage you are going to hate what you get from the boundary mics.


Easy isolation can solve quite a bit of that problem.


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## DaveySimps (Apr 23, 2010)

Footer said:


> Are they any better/worse? Is the cable a bit more substantial? The price is right.



The TM-125C I recommended above has a built in connector and cable , no more mini connector to get stomped on and break. MUCH more durable, although you can order the traditional disconnecting cable you find on the old PCC; same price for both. I would say they are on par with the PCC 160's, not worse sounding.

~Dave


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## MNicolai (Apr 23, 2010)

It's usually a wise decision to place a felt pad or pillow below boundary mic's to help isolate some of the footstep sounds, but there's not much you can do.

I've used PCC160's and some higher-end Audio-Technica's but often it's a desperate last resort that usually follows hanging mic's not picking up enough. For some shows, they've been sort of useful, though. I did A Chorus Line a few years ago and the director kept wanting to hear more of the foot steps. I put down the PCC160's and he was upset that he could no longer understand the voices of the singers.


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## derekleffew (Apr 23, 2010)

avkid said:


> Easy isolation can solve quite a bit of that problem.




MNicolai said:


> It's usually a wise decision to place a felt pad or pillow below boundary mic's to help isolate some of the footstep sounds, but there's not much you can do.



From Bartlett Microphones/FAQ:

> *Can I reduce footstep noises by putting the mic on a foam block or other padding?*
> No. The mic diaphragm is perpendicular to the stage floor, so floor vibrations produce no audible signal from the microphone. The mic will pick up foot steps acoustically, the same as your ears. If you pick up the mic off the floor while reinforcing footsteps, you should hear no difference in the loudness of the footsteps. You might ask the wardrobe people to put rubber or felt soles on the actors' shoes (unless felt is too slippery). Or carpet the stage floor.


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## gafftaper (Apr 23, 2010)

To explain my points further: 
A boundary mic on nice solid wood stage will have pretty good results. However, put them on something like a hollow pit cover or a home made platform where you hear a "clompy" echo with each step and you'll just magnify the problem. 

Again I prefer hanging mics over the stage because you are less likely to pick up those foot sounds. But even more importantly perhaps. The mics won't be stepped on or kicked off the stage. You can leave them up there all the time, making your setup time much faster.


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## Chris15 (Apr 24, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> But even more importantly perhaps. The mics won't be stepped on or kicked off the stage. You can leave them up there all the time, making your setup time much faster.



The PCC160 has keyholes in the base to allow screw mounting to the deck if I recall correctly...


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## MisterTim (Apr 24, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> The PCC160 has keyholes in the base to allow screw mounting to the deck if I recall correctly...


 Correct. 

Also, the PCC160s are nigh on bulletproof. 

I keep a piece of felt taped to the bottom of all my PCC160s, this is enough for most uses, if i need more isolation then I put it on a slightly angled block of foam and low cut it. Our stage is 'moderately clompy' but I've never really had a problem with them. We have hanging mics too, but I'd take 3x PCC160 across the front over 6x hanging mics any day for anything except a large choir.


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## BigBC68 (Apr 27, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> Correct.
> 
> Also, the PCC160s are nigh on bulletproof.
> 
> I keep a piece of felt taped to the bottom of all my PCC160s, this is enough for most uses, if i need more isolation then I put it on a slightly angled block of foam and low cut it. Our stage is 'moderately clompy' but I've never really had a problem with them. We have hanging mics too, but I'd take 3x PCC160 across the front over 6x hanging mics any day for anything except a large choir.



I've used the wedge of foam with the PCC160's as well, but usually it isn't needed unless the actors are close to the mics. Honestly though, if the actors are that close to the mics, it's usually best to mute them anyway, as they are mostly out of the 160's pickup pattern.

Also, the 160's make great piano mics. I like to tape 2 of them under the lid of a grand, with one pointed towards the bass strings, and the other pointed toward the higher strings, but not directly at the hammers. Usually the only EQ I have to use when I do this is the bass cut on the mic itself, and occasionally a bit of a hight boost if I accidentally cover the screen with gaff tape.

Edit: I can also vouch for the bulletproof-ness of the 160's. I've seen one get run over with a large set piece, and survive.


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## sdauditorium (Apr 28, 2010)

+1 with regards to the PCC-160 and its durability.


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## blalew (Apr 28, 2010)

I've used the PCC-160s for picking up small ensembles (10-12) off in front of a leg or something. A lot of GBF & work great as long as the group is actually listening/balancing with each other (not a given I'm afraid).


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## MisterTim (Apr 28, 2010)

BigBC68 said:


> Also, the 160's make great piano mics. I like to tape 2 of them under the lid of a grand, with one pointed towards the bass strings, and the other pointed toward the higher strings, but not directly at the hammers. Usually the only EQ I have to use when I do this is the bass cut on the mic itself, and occasionally a bit of a hight boost if I accidentally cover the screen with gaff tape.


I do exactly the same thing actually. Until I can afford an Earthworks PianoMic.... </dream>


> Edit: I can also vouch for the bulletproof-ness of the 160's. I've seen one get run over with a large set piece, and survive.


I was working on the floor by the stage taping the foam or whatever to my PCC-160s. I walk back upstairs to grab something, the director throws a chair, it hits the stage monitor (EV SX600), which flies off the stage (4' vertical) right onto the PCC-160s. Everything survived, but I sure had a heart attack.


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## NickVon (May 1, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> It's usually a wise decision to place a felt pad or pillow below boundary mic's to help isolate some of the footstep sounds, but there's not much you can do.
> 
> I've used PCC160's and some higher-end Audio-Technica's but often it's a desperate last resort that usually follows hanging mic's not picking up enough. For some shows, they've been sort of useful, though. I did A Chorus Line a few years ago and the director kept wanting to hear more of the foot steps. I put down the PCC160's and he was upset that he could no longer understand the voices of the singers.


\

Those peices of foam that come with your Theatrical lamps works great when trimmed to size . tape a "hinge" on one side and you can still get to the bass cut/boost switch.


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