# Gobos on fire?



## macas (Nov 7, 2006)

We were doing a production of Christmas Carol and we forgot to fireproof one of the gobos we had made (out of cardboard) and during the performance it caught fire and fell out of the holder and landed on someone. It was kinda funny because no-one backstage knew what was going on but we could definately smell it burning.


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## mackem_techie (Nov 7, 2006)

it wasnt funny at the time but when i think about it was . i remember the school bursar came in in his hi-vis jacket with a hard hat on and a fire extinguisher - it completely ruined the atmosphere lol.

I also remember a time when we were working with a smoke machine to create a "cupboard" full of smoke behind some double doors to give the effect of the gates into heaven, but the problem was, we forgot that there was a smoke detector right above the "cupboard" that was a fun ending to the show , when the fire alarm went off just as the main character was about to get into heaven lol


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## kingfisher1 (Nov 7, 2006)

how exactly do yo go about fireproofing these gobos?


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## mackem_techie (Nov 7, 2006)

well we sprayed it with fire retardant spray and left it to dry. im not sure quite what else we expected to happen honestly, it seems obvious to me now that a cardboard gobo holder will burst into flames. i was younger and much less sensible then


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## Van (Nov 7, 2006)

macas said:


> We were doing a production of Christmas Carol and we forgot to fireproof one of the gobos we had made (out of cardboard) and during the performance it caught fire and fell out of the holder and landed on someone. It was kinda funny because no-one backstage knew what was going on but we could definately smell it burning.


 
Wow , Not really funny, definately dangerous, and if you don't mind me asking ........... who in the hell came up with the idea of making gobos out of cardboard ? While your'e at it why don't you just use a slinky for an extension cord ?


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## kovacika (Nov 7, 2006)

If thats what your useing for gobos your lucky the whole theater didnt burn down


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## ship (Nov 7, 2006)

I'm rolling on the floor laughing on this article. Brilliant idea to flame proof them.!!!k
Made my day in never hearing of such a concept as ... interesting that turned out all right and now can be chuckled over.


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## ship (Nov 7, 2006)

NO!

I have a new mission in life!

Our illustrious assistant shop manager has no experience with lighting, and when given the chance she never knows when I am as fact sending her out for ionized checkerboard paint or really teaching her something. I can make either seem really realistic and accurate. You know the ionized sunglasses that get darker by way of how the sun or light hits them..., this paint has it’s ions line up in white one direction, black the other direction. She wasted over an hour in searching for this paint at one point.

Leko Dpt. Manager in the morning will have a rush job and need gobos for a show. She will be one short and get the Asst. Shop Manager to make her one more gobo on the fly for this very important show. The rube will than be sent to me so as to make one more. It will be a cardboard gobo that will after being made, be tested in the fixture.

“It’s Source Four fixtures after all, they run cooler - we do this technique once in a while and it will be fine.” This I’m going to do, it’s perfect and educational to boot.

Thanks for the idea.


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## soundlight (Nov 7, 2006)

Let us know the results of this, Ship!!


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## ship (Nov 7, 2006)

Just sent E-Mail off to the shop manager/stewert requesting his help in this. All planned out. This is going to happen in the morning - shop Stewert will love it and we are not busy at the moment - perfect timing.

"JP" is a target on my gunsite for this joke. Read below, I need your help ("JH" the Leko Manager is ready to go on this) but I need some force of help and making it as realistic in a rush project as possible to get her.

"JH" gets a rush job for some show (as real as possible) that needs fixtures and gobos. We need to be one short, I can coordinate this thru "PG". "JP" in helping out should be pulling the Lekos and prepping the show (a rental or supplement to a big high profile show perhaps going out that afternoon.) Given the buyer who normally buys gobos is out of town at the moment, there than is no way for us to get more on time. Perfect timing for him to be out of town.

"JH" sends "JP" over to me so as to make one more (should be a fairly simple gobo design such as say a cross for "WC" - an overly huge church we get stuff for all the time.) "JH" can help by way of saying that my area has the ability to make gobos and has done it in the past - I have but normally out of steel or aluminum.

I'll take it from there. I'll give her some cardboard from a case of Coke and Exacto Knife than have her get a gobo to trace. Away she goes. Yep, she will be concerned about the heat resistance of cardboard. Yep, I'll tell her it's going into a S-4 light fixture and they run cooler by way of dichroic reflectors. I'll than confuse here in explaning in great detail about how dichroic reflectors work, and what the light focused at the gate is doing in convincing her that it will work fine. "Do it all the time of one off's."

Can work and to boot it would be educational for her.

We all than seemingly at some point gather around her as she play tests that last gobo. And laugh and laugh, than wait for her to slug me and all about. Only person in the shop that will take such an extensive joke thus appropriate.


Heck, to make it even more realistic, I'll have her spray down the gobo with graphite spray in telling her it will protect the cardboard from the heat. The graphite spray than she will have to heat gun on the cool mode so as to make it dry faster and in making the project more involved yet and timely in needing that spray to dry fast or the stuff will not ship in time.


gotta do this, can I do this, will you help me do this?


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## len (Nov 8, 2006)

ship said:


> Leko Dpt. Manager ...



Sorry to derail this but how big is your shop that you warrant a manager just for lekos? I think ILC has 500 +/- lekos and they don't have a leko dept. manager.


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## ship (Nov 9, 2006)

len said:


> Sorry to derail this but how big is your shop that you warrant a manager just for lekos? I think ILC has 500 +/- lekos and they don't have a leko dept. manager.



Urr, ILC is a sister company but a wee bit smaller given that's the case. Don't have a count but it's probably at least 1.1/2 more if not double. From an old list, in 2003 it was over 560 Leko, but that was 2003 where there also was only over 2,000 PAR 64 cans also amongst other types. Much more now. All "Conventionals" and follow spots fall under the Leko Manager. For day to day type prep, the Leko Manager does the prep and repair of the conventional fixtures - I supervise how and the doing of the wee bit more advanced work thus don't much work on the day to day stuff. This as opposed to the moving light Dpt manager who has the electronics repair department doing repairs for what he does not fix. 

About at least double the Lekos and similar and you have the scale in needing it for it's own department. We rent from them, they rent from us. Sister company in constant association with each other amongst alos TLC and Performance locaclly beyond at least four other sources.

The plan was changed. The Shop Stewert while he recognizes my interest to do this as a interesting idea, has someone else in mind to do it to I respect and await.


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## FxDrew (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm just wondering... why make gobos out of cardboard when you can use those "hot dish" aluminium trays from your grocery store? They are fairly cheap, hold up well, can be cut with a hobby knife, you canget about 4-6 gobos out of them and you don't have to worry about it going up in flames. I have never heard of "cardboard gobos", but it sounds like a fire hazard to me.


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## soundop (Nov 9, 2006)

you idiot, how the hell do you forget to fireproof a gobo


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## jonhirsh (Nov 11, 2006)

How about you use pre fab steel gobos or at minimum pie plates to creat your own. 

JH

ps. are you or the person who is fire proffing these "gobos" certified?
http://www.iccsafe.org/certification/safsi.html


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## mackem_techie (Nov 11, 2006)

ok guys please understnad a few things:
1) i now realise how stupid i was to try and use a carboard gobo and wont be doing it again
2) At the time all the technical side of the school shows were organised by us, the pupils, now there is a teacher in charge who orgnaises most of the stuff and can get us extras (like another gobo holder) at the last minute from his contacts
3) We now have a new theatre and lots of new equipment and i know none of us would dare do anything we havent been told to do or had checked out with the teacher.

It seems i have caused something of a storm with this. i have one thing to say though: DONT FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE, CHECK EVEYTHING YOU'RE NOT SURE ABOUT WITH SOMEONE WHO KNOWS! SAFETY REALLY MATTERS, as much as we like to act all bravado and pretend it doesnt.


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## Shinigami (Nov 11, 2006)

My stage manager and I caught a home made gobo on fire once. Both of us were new and thankfully were watching the gobo to see what pattern would be created by our find in the depths of a supply drawer. After a few minutes of admiration we noticed the smoke. We had put it in BACKWARDS. The gobos were cardboard covered in a piece of what I believe to be fire-retardant metal foil. But only on one side. We never used it again.


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## macas (Nov 12, 2006)

Like mackem techie said, we were all very young (I was only 13) and stagecrew had to organise and set up the show by ourselves with no teacher help. Also it doesn't help that we had some very incompetant U6th students in charge of us all. Once they made a hammock out of the stage curtain and caused 200 pounds worth of damage, yes it was funny then but we are all older now and understand what complete idiots they were.


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## ship (Nov 12, 2006)

mackem_techie said:


> ok guys please understnad a few things:
> 1) i now realise how stupid i was to try and use a carboard gobo and wont be doing it again
> 2) At the time all the technical side of the school shows were organised by us, the pupils, now there is a teacher in charge who orgnaises most of the stuff and can get us extras (like another gobo holder) at the last minute from his contacts
> 3) We now have a new theatre and lots of new equipment and i know none of us would dare do anything we havent been told to do or had checked out with the teacher.
> It seems i have caused something of a storm with this. i have one thing to say though: DONT FOLLOW MY EXAMPLE, CHECK EVEYTHING YOU'RE NOT SURE ABOUT WITH SOMEONE WHO KNOWS! SAFETY REALLY MATTERS, as much as we like to act all bravado and pretend it doesnt.



Apologize for any firestorm I might have helped with. Seriously, this is one of the best theater legends you will ever come across and years from now you will remember it as a really great story to tell of. Thus it's very great in concept similar to the old day tales of sending people out to wash the "gels" when they really were gels. Thus my own post with a new employee gaming with them as opposed to washing the gels.

Safety matters and I would hope within my post it would be observed that it's only under factory/shop like conditions that I would attempt to play such a game with new people in a simlar way to washing the gel.


IT'S A great concept thus my own enthusiasm for the idea of it. Not for shop or production, much less for under the most supervised of circumstances to be attempted but still all the same very funny.


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## Van (Nov 12, 2006)

I'll second ship, I didn't realize this was posted as a story, a joke of , "year ago we did this..." Sorry I jumped on anybodies head.


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## ship (Nov 14, 2006)

soundop said:


> you idiot, how the hell do you forget to fireproof a gobo



Not very nice language to be using on people you only know on-line. Belittling or calling people names is not within the policy of the forum or good taste. This post was about an observation which the poster already knew was bad in finding out and questioning already. Posting about it however is in some ways monumental in importance for all to read by way of what if others are doing so also and have not had this problem yet, or at least in sharing even a basic concept for all to know and think about first for if not this, other applications. This to the extent of mounting a light fixture to un-treated lumber on a set which could also catch on fire. In other words, in my opinion, while I laughed my head off over it's telling, planned my own jokes for those at work about it (in something those the joked would learn from) within a safe environment to test from, I very much also see such a post out of the blue to be something very important to pass onto others. Who knows who else is reading the forum, perhaps others that use cardboard gobos? 

Anyone else posted about this general concept we all take for granted as not safe yet? Given it's a unique topic in post, kudos should be given to this poster for briging up the issue that otherwise before now simply didn't get to the broad base of knowledge of all readers.

If a joke (in there in fact no way to flame proof a gobo of any type by way of some form of coating), it should have at least been followed up in a toung and cheek type of way with a bunch of smily faces and in quoting the reference to "flame proofing" the gobo as a "I get it response." If posting just to call someone's once seen problem of gee, that probably was not such a good idea, it by way of this response direct to your's proves no doubt that your own posting was not so well thought out either. In fact some metals and aluminum materials when coated can also catch fire when in direct heat. Not the metal but the coating, as with some coatings and flame proofings that are rated for a certain temperature but very specifically not above it. Bit of "Pam" left on the pie tin? Will Teflon coatings to a pie tin help or hinder heat resistance to a gobo?

If it as a response was referring to my end result graphite coated cardboard gobos as part of an idea for an extended joke, it also would not work. There is no real good way to flame proof cardboard. There is a flaw in the concept that only extreme effort by way of changing the cardboard into something by nature able to take heat would solve = nothing sprayed on or flame treated would solve this. Even some form of pressurized super saturation of the cardboard would only solve the flame problem but not the smolder problem.

As to why one would do a cardboard gobo, you know people of all sorts do and direct others in the industy. Often great ideas come out of nowhere, sometimes things that are not so well thought out are done if even out of tradition and always worked before. Often short of experienced instruction, it is a trial by error and not the fault of those under such systems. More the fault of both instructor that failed to learn sufficient for what they supervised and instructed, and for those that taught the instructor sufficient to do, but not sufficient to understand. This much less a system that allowed a school to have other than the best instructors possible for all from Spanish to Theater. It's the next generation we pass on to, lowest in pay person willing to do the job does not always equal the best in education by way of instructor or student under them afterwards. Some people get stage craft classes and beyond in school, others have Gymatoriums with the students making up their own rules and policies for the occasional problem.

Heck, what about 15 years ago, I was using vinyl coated butt splices and THHN wire inside light fixtures because it was all I knew. On carpentry, for years and years scenery the City of Chicago used for it's events, that was used out doors had Elmers White Glue at it's joints instead of wood or outdoor glue. Changed to the more economical at the time than outdoor glue to just plain wood glue and the repairs to scenery after every show dropped to about half. Who will have thunk it until someone noted a problem, analized it and came up with another solution.

Very good post concept. Idiot... just doesn't come to mind either by way of post or those using it in the past and finding out later it was not such a good idea. This other than if intentional and nothing was later learned by such a bad idea.


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