# Construction collapse threatens Saenger in NOLA



## Jay Ashworth (Oct 12, 2019)

A building collapse during construction of a new Hard Rock Hotel in downtown New Orleans has left a construction crane unmoored, inside of the fall radius of which, this reporter notes, is the Saenger theater. Hopefully nobody here works at the Saenger. If you do, I would not be reporting for work until they get that crane torn down.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 12, 2019)

Wow. I toured the Saenger a couple of years ago and it was beautifully restored and improved.


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## Jay Ashworth (Oct 12, 2019)

If I were them I'd have the best tower crane crew in the US and a SkyCrane in there tomorrow.


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## JohnD (Oct 12, 2019)

Here is some drone footage:


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## What Rigger? (Oct 12, 2019)

1 dead, 2 missing or trapped in wreckage/rubble. This is a $#!tstorm.


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## Jay Ashworth (Oct 13, 2019)

Now 2 dead, 1 missing, still 18 in hospital.

Evac zone and details:

https://www.wdsu.com/article/rescue...g-in-hard-rock-construction-collapse/29447762


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## JohnD (Oct 14, 2019)

Here is an update from:
ABCNews
In the article the mayor said that there was damage to the roof of the Saenger Theater from falling debris and that the rest of the performances of "Wicked" have been canceled.


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## Van (Oct 15, 2019)

Just saw a new story that they looking into the fact that the pool was lifted a couple hours before the collapse. I looked at the original, cell phone, footage and did not see anything resembling a pool falling with the other ruble but it could have been buried already. It also could have been placed on that 3rd floor deck. I read in one of the earliest reports that wind had been a factor that day and that something had blown into the building when it was being lofted by the crane. Al that being said perhaps the pool was on that lower deck. the wind grabbed it and it bounced off a support. that could certainly start a cascade if the structure were significantly compromised by the impact.... speculation, speculation...


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## MNicolai (Oct 15, 2019)

The very unverified rumor I heard was similar to yours @Van. Supposedly they were lifting something and it swung into the structure and knocked into one of the columns -- or something like that. Another also unverified rumor is that they were originally designed to have more structure be supported by concrete but at some point VE'd to provide most of the vertical support strictly by structural steel columns.

Whatever the case, the building is probably a total loss and will need to be demo'd in its entirety. I wouldn't be surprised to see the project get scrapped along the way and see the developer fold and close up shop. The litigation on this will be ugly, and is likely to include exhibiting a video to a jury which has been floating around Facebook of a victim trapped under rubble. What appears to be metal framing wrapped itself across the waist and neck of the victim who at the time of filming was still alive under the rubble. Unclear if this is one of the survivors or the fatalities. This tragedy will haunt any further development of that hotel.


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## RonHebbard (Oct 15, 2019)

MNicolai said:


> The very unverified rumor I heard was similar to yours @Van. Supposedly they were lifting something and it swung into the structure and knocked into one of the columns -- or something like that. Another also unverified rumor is that they were originally designed to have more structure be supported by concrete but at some point VE'd to provide most of the vertical support strictly by structural steel columns.
> 
> Whatever the case, the building is probably a total loss and will need to be demo'd in its entirety. I wouldn't be surprised to see the project get scrapped along the way and see the developer fold and close up shop. The litigation on this will be ugly, and is likely to include exhibiting a video to a jury which has been floating around Facebook of a victim trapped under rubble. What appears to be metal framing wrapped itself across the waist and neck of the victim who at the time of filming was still alive under the rubble. Unclear if this is one of the survivors or the fatalities. This tragedy will haunt any further development of that hotel.


*@Van* and *@MNicolai* _BAD PUN ALERT!_  Or we could have a POOL speculating upon which rumor is closer to the Value Engineered TRUTH. I can't wait for *@TimMc* 's post. . .
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## gafftaper (Oct 15, 2019)

My hardcore union buddy on Facebook is posting stuff about how this is because they were using non licensed non-union labor, but from what I can tell that was only an electrical subcontractor. The post also included the face of someone who looked severely injured which really bothered me... is that alive? I couldn't tell from the picture. 

I hate this kind of stuff. Not only is it a tragedy, but everyone points fingers and demands an answer right now. Truth takes time. OSHA will take months, maybe up a year, before they complete their investigation.


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## TimMc (Oct 15, 2019)

The one thing you can bet on: any local or state investigation will be a white-wash. I lived and worked in NOLA for about 6 months and felt like it took years off my life span. It's a wonderful city with many kind and lovely people, and then there is the rest of it...

If initial reports of high winds and unsecured/insufficiently secured lifting are correct this is another case where 'making the schedule' killed and injured people who had no control over their work, other than to quit.


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## scenicsauthoff (Oct 16, 2019)

I'm working down in nola now. The rest of the Wicked tour at the Sanger has been cancelled. Not sure if the crew can get in to strike the set or not, don't believe they can. Hopefully the Mahalia Jackson can take some of the upcoming tours. There's about a two block radius of a mandatory evacuation from the Hard Rock.


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## Van (Oct 16, 2019)

Some folks lives just got a lot more complicated. Check out the unsupported pandeck spans: https://www.wwltv.com/article/news/...apse/289-48aa9318-0a6e-4ae5-850d-6a984563c16b


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## Robert (Oct 16, 2019)

News post that shows a video taken a few days earlier where bent support jacks are pointed out.
https://www.nola.com/news/article_d82bade0-f032-11e9-aaf6-231f92b121e2.html


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 16, 2019)

Interesting looking at web sites of design firms. The structural engineer list prominently "expert witness" services. I suspect they'll have the chance to pick up some pointers in those regards over the years ahead.


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## RonHebbard (Oct 16, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Interesting looking at web sites of design firms. The structural engineer prominently lists "expert witness" services. I suspect they'll have the chance to pick up some pointers in those regards over the years ahead.


The years they'll be spending in jail, possibly*??* 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## JohnD (Oct 16, 2019)

Among the outside experts called in to help in the creation of a safe resolution is Thornton Tomasetti who were involved in the Indiana State Fair stage collapse investigation and also at the 9/11 aftermath at the World Trade Center.


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## MNicolai (Oct 17, 2019)

Thought the structural engineer in that article was speaking very candidly given the circumstances. Did a little digging. Walter Zehner did an original design for an earlier version of the project but it sounds like he has no ownership of the current design whatsoever. Engineer of Record is presently Heaslip Engineering. Commentary from the structural peanut gallery over here if anyone is interested. Other engineers have been going through videos and the publicly available S&S plans to analyze what may have happened and a fair deal of scrutiny is being applied to the condition of the S&S drawings. Those drawings indeed do not tell the entire story nor would errors there necessarily mean that a contractor error didn't precipitate the collapse but the drawings and drone footage do raise many questions about the integrity of the design.

The property is owned by "1031 Canal Development LLC", which is a tactic developers use to limit their liability. This project is deliberately silo'd off from the rest of their portfolio.

I would add that I've done a few projects in NOLA, and it's definitely a good ol' boys club. It is a very lax environment in terms of professionalism from contractors. Lot of shady business practices and unqualified labor.


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## TimMc (Oct 17, 2019)

JohnD said:


> Among the outside experts called in to help in the creation of a safe resolution is Thornton Tomasetti who were involved in the Indiana State Fair stage collapse investigation and also at the 9/11 aftermath at the World Trade Center.


They hired the right firm, now the question is if whoever hired them will publicly release T-T's full report as the State of Indiana did for the State Fair blow-down.


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## JohnD (Oct 17, 2019)

Thanks to @MNicolai for the link to ENG-TIPS.com in post #19. Lots of great info even if much of it is written in Engineese.
One interesting idea put forward was this:


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## Van (Oct 17, 2019)

JohnD said:


> Thanks to @MNicolai for the link to ENG-TIPS.com in post #19. Lots of great info even if much of it is written in Engineese.
> One interesting idea put forward was this:


I agree with the assessment that the corridor could have acted as a 'fire break' that kept the rest of the structure from following the collapse. Despite the cheesy support structure my money is still on the idea that somebody took out a vertical strut with an impact lower on the structure.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 17, 2019)

I'd expect the bowing temporary jacks will get some review. Makes me wonder if they were pulled too soon.


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## MNicolai (Oct 17, 2019)

They're prepping explosives to blow the cranes up in the next 24h. Intent is just to drop the cranes before they fall, and they've moved 2-4" on their own already last night. Closing gas lines, firefighters are moving peoples' cars out of the evac zone so if anything happens the fuel in their tanks doesn't catch fire, demolition specialists are dropping near the cranes in buckets to use torches to soften the support seal, and there are FAA flight restrictions in place.

The lawsuits filed also allege that documents relating to the soil and piles were "fudged".

The subs say they complained about the structural conditions but were ignored. The city says they were never informed of any complaints.

This will become a circular firing squad of blame.


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## JohnD (Oct 17, 2019)

CNN and others are reporting that because of bad weather moving in over the weekend, the demolition team will be blowing up the two cranes. 

Once again from the ENG_TIPS forum it seems that the first 6 floors, part of which will be parking garage, are capped in a much thicker and stronger "transfer deck" or PT transfer slab or also called the Podium Slab or deck.
From all the available images it certainly looks like that section held up well. It remains to be seen how it holds up to the blasting of the very heavy cranes.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 18, 2019)

MNicolai said:


> The city says they were never informed of any complaints.



Official spokesperson? And no one in building department is saying anything?

Years and years of investigation and litigation and spin.


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## MNicolai (Oct 18, 2019)

Who knows what credibility those statements have. Parts of NOLA's building permit dept are under federal investigation for corruption.


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## TimMc (Oct 18, 2019)

The City of New Orleans (not the train in Arlo Guthrie's song) is one of the most corrupt places in the USA to deal with permits, plans, and construction. When Katrina hit 14 years ago, it was discovered that a majority of floodwater pumps that had been paid for in a bond and grant program had never been delivered or installed.

Like I said earlier, it's a wonderful city in a lot of respects but the parts that aren't.... oh well.


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## Jay Ashworth (Oct 20, 2019)

WWL live coverage of the blow-down:



It looked like a pretty sloppy job to me, bringing the crane towers down, but it also looked as if they missed the Saenger in the process.


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## ptero (Oct 20, 2019)

They are reporting only a few broken windows in the Saenger and one other bldg. Looks like the theatre is ok. Good thing that crane fell and aligned with the street as it hit the ground. Other damage was said to be fairly minor - to a sewer line. They are also spinning that the crane that hung up and did not drop was expected. That’s seems like quite a ‘spin’ to me. They said they’ll go after it piece by piece from another crane. 

https://www.wdsu.com/article/watch-four-angles-of-hard-rock-crane-implosion/29528352


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## MNicolai (Oct 20, 2019)

The comments from the city that the rear crane dropped as expected may be a little optimistic but all things considered this is a safer situation than they had before. They're up against some steep expectations though so I understand why they wouldn't want to draw any uncertainty that they had chosen the wrong firms to execute the demo. Lot of people don't understand that there's really no way to quantify exactly how something like that is going to fall given the time crunch. There are very few firms worldwide who have any experience working under those conditions and even in spite of on-site inspections there are many assumptions that must be made.

At least it looks like both cranes can be dismantled now in a manner that doesn't risk either apparatus butcher knifing 300' in a direction. Hopefully they can get that jib assembly down pretty quickly since that appears to be a little precarious.

It was interesting watching some civil engineer on one of NOLA's local news channels try to explain that maybe the podium levels could be salvaged or deconstructed piece by piece in a "matter of weeks." No way. Nothing is salvageable. You couldn't find a structural engineer or an insurance provider who would ever sign onto preserving any of those lower levels. Even if you could, nobody would ever agree to sign a lease to occupy that building. Thankfully the mayor came on a few minutes later and asserted they would eventually implode the entire building.

I found the contract negotiations over the last few days to be particularly intriguing. Nobody would contract directly with the GC or developer and everyone needed full indemnity and payment up front.


> More details emerged Saturday about the firms involved in taking the cranes down. Gov. John Bel Edwards' office said the lead contractors are D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. of Greensboro, North Carolina, and Lemoine Disaster Recovery of Lafayette.
> 
> Controlled Demolition Inc. of Maryland is the explosives subcontractor, and the global firm Thornton Thomasetti is the engineering consulting subcontractor, according to the city.
> 
> ...


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## Jay Ashworth (Nov 30, 2019)

Oops:








Worker who survived hotel collapse deported

A construction worker hurt in last month’s collapse of the Hard Rock Hotel construction site in New Orleans was deported to Honduras on Friday.



www.yahoo.com


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## TimMc (Nov 30, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Oops:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In my best Peter Lorry impersonation: "How very convenient".


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## TimMc (Jan 24, 2020)

And the bad news continues: the bodies of 2 workers are still in the partially collapsed rubble, one of them several floors above street level.








Victims' bodies still at New Orleans Hard Rock Hotel months after collapse

Wind blows tarp off one of two bodies amid ruins of the unstable building which is to be imploded in March



www.theguardian.com





Wind recently blew away the tarp that covering the visible body parts of the lowest victim and it was photographed and circulated on social media before the NOFD eventually re-covered the remains. I guess this will be a new tourist attraction for Mardi Gras.


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## MNicolai (Jan 24, 2020)

The photos online will still manage to circulate around but at least they were able to get a new tarp in place.


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## MNicolai (Aug 24, 2020)

All of the bodies have been recovered.








With all 3 dead construction workers now recovered, here's what's next at the Hard Rock Hotel site

The developers of the collapsed Hard Rock Hotel construction project for months have said that the only thing stopping them from taking down the rubble at the corner of Canal



www.nola.com





Unfortunately they've missed their target demolition date a couple times now and the fractured hotel remains standing as a probable hurricane approaches the Louisiana coast. Not sure what kind of concern there is for wind load on the overall structure but at the very least it's a risk for airborne debris.


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## Jay Ashworth (Sep 23, 2021)

This just crossed my desk:





Saenger Theatre - EverGreene

By the time Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans and dumped 20 feet of water in the Sanger, the 4,000-seat atmospheric theater had already been modified several times, neglected, and lost its luster. But the $52M restoration and renovation of the Saenger Theatre, beginning in 2011, would...



evergreene.com


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