# Ragtime Performance Canceled



## Grog12 (Jun 27, 2008)

Citing Sensitivity About 'Ragtime''s Racial Content, IL Park Officials Cancel Show - Yahoo! News


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## gafftaper (Jun 27, 2008)

Wow. It's amazing how self righteous some people can get. 

We just did "Ah, Wilderness" and had two people walk out because of it's inappropriate content. I think they say "****" twice in the script and there is a "lowbrow" woman in the show. But the show was written in 1933... it's far tamer than anything on TV these days. 

If you don't like to have your mind expanded and to be challenged to think once in a while there is always Children's theater.


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## bobgaggle (Jun 27, 2008)

It seems to me that as a predominately white society, we're trying to "make-up" for our mistakes made 200 years ago by simply ignoring these taboos and trying to move on. 

Its like how we've completely covered up the massacre of the Native Americans when we first came here. No where in a school text book will it say that the settlers in America intentionally committed genocide. It will say, "the native Americans hadn't built up the immunities to the small pox virus that the Europeans had"

Props for not letting us forget the mistakes we've made in the past, we need to learn and grow from them, not cover them up. James Joyce said, "A man's errors are his portals of discovery."

As for people walking out of a show due to "inappropriate content" (however they define it), there's a wonderful thing called the internet. Look up a review, many of them will say if its a family friendly show or not.


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## Marius (Jun 28, 2008)

I can certainly understand the reasons behind the decision. We did Ragtime at the high school at which I taught and if someone were just wandering by and heard some of the dialogue and didn't know what was going on they could be upset. But that decision should have been made before the project was greenlit, before rights were procured, before anything beyond the 'Hey, kids. Let's put on a show.' stage of preproduction. We did a production of Corpus Christie when I was at FAU. The Florida State Legislature tried to shut us down, and we even got picketed one night. I went out to talk to the protestors and asked them what they didn't like about the show. They couldn't tell me because none of them had read or seen it.  They just heard it was bad. It sounds like the same mentality here. They probably heard the name Ragtime, assumed it was some Scott Joplin musical, and then forgot about it until someone complained. Suits really p*ss me off sometimes.


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## bobgaggle (Jun 29, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Interestingly, many of the people that were up in arms didn't see the show... now that sounds like a good way to judge it...



You all remember "Offsides" the student written play performed in Stone Bridge High School 4 years ago? The outcry was so bad that Dick Black, our delegate in Richmond, started spewing stuff about clamping down on content in public school plays. He gave the order to compile a set of content regs without even seeing the play. He just heard about it from letters and emails.


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## mbenonis (Jun 29, 2008)

It's really sad today how many shows are unable to be performed at the high school or community theatre level because they might offend one or two people. My take: don't come to the show if you don't like it!

The good news is that when you get to college, you can put on almost anything and still sell lots of tickets, often to the community and not to students! We just put on City of Angels, and it has pretty much everything in it you're not supposed to do: language, sex (no nudity), obscene gestures, gunshots, smoking (real cigarettes), etc. But it was a d*** good show!


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## MNicolai (Jun 29, 2008)

We've been really lucky at my high school. In the past ten years we've done a number of controversial shows including A Chorus Line, The Crucible, Cabaret, and we were one of the first high schools to do The Laramie Project 6-8 years ago. Our choral director was down in Texas (we're in Wisconsin) and he even heard on the radio all of the criticisms of our school, and subsequently called in and made a defense.

The ability to put on a controversial show, at least for high schools, depends largely on the director and the principal. Our principal applauded the shows we've put on, and would like to see more of them. Many schools aren't that lucky though.

We've had our share of irate community members though. We gave out a bunch of comp tickets in a senior-citizen golf tournament for Cabaret, and many turned around and said they wouldn't come because of the Nazi nature of the production. Oh well, we weren't making money off of your tickets anyways.


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## gafftaper (Jun 30, 2008)

A local public high school drama teacher I know decided to do "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat" and "Laramie Project" in the same year. She said, "I figure I might as well offend everyone in the same season".


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## MNicolai (Jun 30, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> A local public high school drama teacher I know decided to do "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dream Coat" and "Laramie Project" in the same year. She said, "I figure I might as well offend everyone in the same season".



Our _middle school_ did Joseph this past year for that matter. The funny part is that if you look at the production, and maybe just because it's the Jr. production that they did, there's really no references to the Bible whatsoever, but there are always people that judge without warrant.


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## Marius (Jun 30, 2008)

I used to teach at a Baptist college in Louisiana, and we got complaints about a production of Godspell, for goodness sake! There's always going to be someone who's only joy in life is raining on other people's parades. That is one of the greatest things about Theatre. We can usually rise above censorship and close-mindedness. Usually.


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## Grog12 (Jun 30, 2008)

mbenonis said:


> The good news is that when you get to college, you can put on almost anything and still sell lots of tickets, often to the community and not to students!



Absolutely untrue. I've seen just as many, if not more college productions get edited than HS ones.

Here's the sad truth about the times we live in folks: Both sides of the political spectrum are censoring people. The right hides behind the bible and family values. The left hides behind hate speech and predjudice.

Both want to take away your rights as defined by the 1st Amendment.

I applaud people who quietly get up and leave a show they're offended by.

I do everything in my power not to punch people who picket shows they've never seen.

I love parents who sit with their children and explan what they're seeing. I love the ones who know when to wait and show a child something when they are a little older.

You as an American have the choice to walk away from something you find offensive.

You do not have the right to never be offended.


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## Hughesie (Jul 1, 2008)

what can i say to that but

_Sigh, call the political correctness police _


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## Marius (Jul 1, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> You as an American have the choice to walk away from something you find offensive.
> 
> You do not have the right to never be offended.



I want that on a tee shirt.


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## Grog12 (Jul 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> I want that on a tee shirt.



Come to think of it...so do I.


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## lieperjp (Jul 1, 2008)

I'd buy that... (maybe a new CB T-Shirt?)


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## len (Jul 2, 2008)

As someone who lives nearby, it seems a lot of you are missing some facts about this.

1. The production will be done outdoors, in an area where people (including small children) who aren't necessarily there to see it, can pass by and potentially hear one word out of context.

2. The production may be put on by a community theater group, but it's being done in a city park. So it's really the city that had to be cautious about the language.

Given that, I don't think the city was out of line in asking the performance not to proceed.

Also, I read yesterday that the production will continue in an indoor theater (possibly privately held) in the area.


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## Grog12 (Jul 2, 2008)

len said:


> As someone who lives nearby, it seems a lot of you are missing some facts about this.
> 
> 1. The production will be done outdoors, in an area where people (including small children) who aren't necessarily there to see it, can pass by and potentially hear one word out of context.
> 
> ...



See I get all that. Read it and understand it.

Here's the deal...If any of them thought it would be a problem they should have thought about that *more than two weeks before opening*. Both the city and the theatre company should have thought about that one before hand.

The one thing that truely gets under my skin is censorship. And this is what this is a case of. I don't particularly care that people in the area might here something they don't like, including children. If you don't want your children to hear it know what they're doing and where they're going, and what's going on there.

Its not the governments job to protect your children from things you don't like. Its yours.

And for godsakes people stop taking things out of context. 

If you hear something out of context don't have a knee jerk reaction...figure out whats going on first before becoming a raging ball of whine.


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## Eboy87 (Jul 3, 2008)

Len, I can appreciate your comments and see where you're coming from, as I've been part of productions outdoors in the south Loop and Grant Park where bad language abounds, but I agree with Grog on this one. 

Yes, the city probably shouldn't have put on the production in a public, outdoor place where anyone and everyone can just wander around. But in this instance, I fault the city for not looking at the script more closely. It's a little late to go, "Oh crap, we can't do this show, look at the language in it, it might offend someone," when you're already in tech rehearsals (which I inferred from the article, where it talks about hearing the phrases over the PA), and opening is, well, now a week away. Someone dropped the ball here, and now all the effort that went in to the show from all parties is wasted.

But, I think the big picture here is how easiely offended people are. An example, and I might have posted this in the punching bag two weeks ago. I saw a production of _The Producers_ at The Muny a few weeks ago, and as I was talking to Denny Reagan, the Muny's president (long story how we know him), a lady walked up and started railing for 15 minutes about how the show was inappropriate for anyone to see, and how she thinks the current trend of shows on Broadway is also inappropriate. Denny asked her if she'd seen any of them, to which she replied no, and also mentioned that her friends told her not to see The Producers, because she'd find it appalling. She went anyway, and now wants to make sure no one else can see it.

To me, it's people like that who just need to shut the fu*k up and mind their own business. America has free speech laws, and while yes, you are entitled to let others know you're opinion, you aren't going to shut down an entire professional production just because you are offended. As a side note, there was a lesbian couple in front of me in the audience who got up and left during the number "Keep it gay" without making a fuss of it. I applaud them. 

Regardless, my opinions on censorship and political correctness are that they hurt everyone. Yes, some words should not be tossed around like peanuts because of past connections, but when the word is used as it is in Ragtime, for example, it's there for a reason; to make a point about the dangers and horrors of racism. 

Unfortunately, thanks to the ACLU, and numerous other easily offended people, things like this are being cracked down upon. I was watching a George Carlin clip last night that tangentially dealt with this, and I pretty much agree with him; people need to chill the fu*k out.

My apologies for the rambling, I sort of lost my point in there somewhere.


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## Grog12 (Jul 3, 2008)

The only offensive thing in the producers is how they portray LD's.


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## derekleffew (Jul 4, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> The only offensive thing in the producers is how they portray LD's.


The portrayal of the (female) Lighting Designer was the most accurate stereotype in the show. I shan't name names, but many come immediately to mind.


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## Marius (Jul 4, 2008)

len said:


> As someone who lives nearby, it seems a lot of you are missing some facts about this.
> 
> 1. The production will be done outdoors, in an area where people (including small children) who aren't necessarily there to see it, can pass by and potentially hear one word out of context.
> 
> ...



Sorry to keep banging this drum, but I fear you have missed the point of most of our objections to this action. As I said in my first comment, it is clear that no one in authority read the script before greenlighting the show. I totally agree that Ragtime is inappropriate for a public, outdoor venue. It is an important, sometimes rough show, that deals with very relevant issues, but the language for the show needs to be heard in the context of the play. The time to object was before any preproduction began. Not within two weeks of opening night.


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## Grog12 (Jul 4, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> The portrayal of the (female) Lighting Designer was the most accurate stereotype in the show. I shan't name names, but many come immediately to mind.



Oh how I know it to be true...(should have thrown sarcasm tags on)


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## gafftaper (Jul 7, 2008)

I think there is an important piece of the puzzle missing from this discussion. That is the heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears put into a production. 

If the city officials who canceled this production had wisely read it ahead of time and said, "No, this script has too much controversial language. It isn't appropriate for this venue, Find something else." it sounds like most of us would NOT be upset. Yet those are the same grounds they are using to cancel the performance at the last minute. However now, we don't like it and are calling it censorship. It's funny how your perspective changes after you've built a set, hung a plot, and designed some killer sound cues. From Their point of view canceling a performance is no different from canceling the viewing of a film. From our perspective it's radically different. In our world once the producing organization says "go" that show is going to happen no matter what.


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## Grog12 (Jul 7, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> I think there is an important piece of the puzzle missing from this discussion. That is the heart, soul, blood, sweat, and tears put into a production.
> 
> If the city officials who canceled this production had wisely read it ahead of time and said, "No, this script has too much controversial language. It isn't appropriate for this venue, Find something else." it sounds like most of us would NOT be upset. Yet those are the same grounds they are using to cancel the performance at the last minute. However now, we don't like it and are calling it censorship. It's funny how your perspective changes after you've built a set, hung a plot, and designed some killer sound cues. From Their point of view canceling a performance is no different from canceling the viewing of a film. From our perspective it's radically different. In our world once the producing organization says "go" that show is going to happen no matter what.



Thank you for embodying the crux of my problem with this whole thing.


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## jwl868 (Jul 8, 2008)

There is, no doubt, a “rest of the story” that I’m missing. Could just be over-sensitivity on the part of the Park Executive Director. (Can’t figure out if there’s a money angle – the Park seems to be doing okay, relying nearly exclusively on taxes and user fees. It’s not like a major portion of their budget comes from outside sources.)

The last minute cancellation is really bad form. But I disagree with the statement regarding the city officials reading the script first; I believe that those involved in the production were fully aware of the content: The Wilmette Park District has a healthy bureaucracy: A board of elected officials oversees the parks administration. In the administration, an executive director oversees seven departments, each with its own manager. Further, the articles mention a Performing Arts Supervisor, which would appear to be a level below the managers. While I can’t be certain, I would expect a performing arts supervisor to have been fully aware of the content of the show and its context (Gotta be part of the job description). Reading between the lines of the article, there was some scrambling around on the part of the supervisor prior to the cancellation announcement. I suspect someone on the board talked to the Executive Director, who talked to the Supervisor.

My conclusion is that the Park officials did read the script first, if only in a delegated manner. It wasn’t the executive director’s job to read it. (In my own cursory look into “Ragtime” articles and reviews online, I found nothing that would indicate offensive language. It was nominated for Tony awards, for crying out loud. Certainly the wikipedia article doesn’t mention dialogue or lyrics. You have to look hard to find articles about issues at an Indiana high school production of it.)

The executive director says that the cancellation was his call. But it’s impossible to tell what outside pressure he was taking. To his credit, though, he didn’t publicly criticize the supervisor.

Seems to me that there needs to be a list of seven (or maybe eight) words that you can’t say on a Wilmette Parks stage.

[I see they’ve moved the show to an indoor venue. I was about to suggest a Blazing Saddles solution.]

Joe


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## Grog12 (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm fully aware of the content of Ragtime and have absolutley no probelm putting on a performance of it in a free/outdoor situation.

My job is not to police and censor shows for the audience. They have the descion when walking past whether or not to see it or leave. That is their job. Just as its a parents job to know what they're doing and where they're going.

My job is to put on the best **** performance possible. My job is to make audience members think. To entertain them. To inform them and ultimetly to perform for them. No matter the script.

I garuntee you that the Executive Director was feeling pressure. Especially from special interest groups which are ruining our art form. They've started with the large targets of television and radio and they're working their way down into your theatre.


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## len (Jul 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> Sorry to keep banging this drum, but I fear you have missed the point of most of our objections to this action. As I said in my first comment, it is clear that no one in authority read the script before greenlighting the show. I totally agree that Ragtime is inappropriate for a public, outdoor venue. It is an important, sometimes rough show, that deals with very relevant issues, but the language for the show needs to be heard in the context of the play. The time to object was before any preproduction began. Not within two weeks of opening night.



I get it. I really do. I've seen the movie, and read the book, which is far better than the movie, which I really like. And no, I don't like censorship.

And yes, I agree that these decisions should be made before a production begins, not at the 11th hour, which I don't think this was. 

But I also realize that things get changed at the last minute. People are busy. And community government is often run by part-timers. They mostly work a full time job, plus serve the community, and seldom have time to screen everything in a timely manner and as thoroughly as they should. 

Further, you said that "no one in authority read the script ..." Assume that the people producing the show knew exactly what they were producing and exactly the theme of the play. Wouldn't it have been wise to bring that before the park district, or whoever else was in control of the property BEFORE production began? Or at least to review the history of the space to get an idea what was typically within bounds?


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## lieperjp (Jul 8, 2008)

jwl868 said:


> Certainly the wikipedia article doesn’t mention dialogue or lyrics.



You could always add a section to the article citing this story... In all fairness to those reading wikipedia...


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## Grog12 (Jul 9, 2008)

len said:


> And yes, I agree that these decisions should be made before a production begins, not at the 11th hour, which I don't think this was.


It was canceled two week before opening. That's the 11th hour. Money has been spent, sets have been built techs are about to happen.


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