# Motor assisted fly.



## Aaron Clarke (Jul 5, 2017)

Ran across a motor assisted fly system that is new to me at a community theatre and I'm curious on the concept behind it. 

It is a double purchase fly system and electrics have a motor and winch that has replaced the purchase line. I familiar with the JR Clancy power assist where the motor/winch can take a load in both directions. This system though appears to be set-up to only pull the arbor down and therefore can only handle a line set that heavy on that is heavy on the batten side.

My questions is the concept of how this gets weighted? Looking at it I would think you'd of course want to keeping some amount of weight on the batten side so there is work for the winch to do but not so much to tax the winch. 

I did notice that the lines come down quite fast (I'm thinking is was 10ft/sec) and have a very hard stop. Once set has quiet a bounce on the down side stop which was a bit concerning for. 

Disclaimer- I'm not asking for specific advice on this exact situation, only a concept of such a system and possibly known issues to watch for from those familiar with it. I'm an not a trainer rigger and by no means claim to be one and am just curious to see some professional input. I hope to meet with the gentleman that is in charge of maintenance soon to inquire about the history, instruction and most important inspections.


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## icewolf08 (Jul 5, 2017)

Aaron Clarke said:


> Ran across a motor assisted fly system that is new to me at a community theatre and I'm curious on the concept behind it.
> 
> It is a double purchase fly system and electrics have a motor and winch that has replaced the purchase line. I familiar with the JR Clancy power assist where the motor/winch can take a load in both directions. This system though appears to be set-up to only pull the arbor down and therefore can only handle a line set that heavy on that is heavy on the batten side.
> 
> ...


I would agree with your assessment, that the system requires that the lineset always be somewhat batten heavy. Basically it is similar in concept to the operation of a hemp and sandbag system. 

I would also steer clear of that machine as there are lots of things about it that just don't feel safe. It looks very "home brew" from the photos and doesn't appear to have some safety features that I would expect in an overhead lifting scenario. So, yeah.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 5, 2017)

One of the plusses of motor assisted counterweight is that left counterweight heavy, it is likely to fail safe. I would not be comfortable with this setup. And I can't be sure but does not appear to have a load brake, only the motor brake. WIth the speed and hard stops in addition, I think I would say don't use these if I were inspecting or otherwise called in for an opinion.

So, first, monitor the counterweight and try to keep it to the minimum necessary to allow the system to work, at least when there are people under it. You probably should have another line tagged to the arbors and dead tie it off at the rail (make sure it's good for the upward load) when at trim. As a rule, don't allow people under it when moving. All motorized stage rigging (and really all stage rigging - motors or not - but I get more emphatic when it involves motors) should be inspected annually by a qualified person.


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## Protech (Jul 5, 2017)

We manufacture counterweight assist systems as well, and they are designed as a "closed loop" system using roller chain. The setup you've shown lacks this, and you're correct that an *ARBOR* heavy load would result in a crash.

It looks to me like someone studied a capstan winch, and decided to make a "permanent" one. Is there a manufacturers tag anywhere?

It looks to have a limit switch attached, so the designer was not totally clueless - but its missing other critical safety equipment and I'd disavow its use and tag it out if it were me.

Edited for mistype. Thats what I get for trying to do too many things at once!


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## venuetech (Jul 5, 2017)

what is its use? a movie screen? an electric? I assume it is not a empty pipe.

oops now i see that it is for electrics. so you have 2 or three of these ?


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 5, 2017)

venuetech said:


> what is its use? a movie screen? an electric? I assume it is not a empty pipe.
> 
> oops now i see that it is for electrics. so you have 2 or three of these ?



Two of these. The 3rd LX is still manual. 


Protech said:


> Is there a manufacturers tag anywhere?



No tags I could see easily


Protech said:


> I'd disavow its use and tag it out if it were me.



If I only had the say... I would. Its not coming down by my hands unless absolutely necessary. I may not be a pro but I know when to feel uneasy and that made me cringe the first time.


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## venuetech (Jul 5, 2017)

I would think this was installed by the original rigging company and may (or may not) have been up to the standards of the day at that time. of note is it appears to be a single purchase lineset. As an electric generally does not need the full travel that a normal line set needs. the tension of the winch cable will be your best guide regarding load, it should not be bowstring tight.

Aaron Clarke said:


> My questions is the concept of how this gets weighted? Looking at it I would think you'd of course want to keeping some amount of weight on the batten side so there is work for the winch to do but not so much to tax the winch.
> 
> I did notice that the lines come down quite fast (I'm thinking is was 10ft/sec) and have a very hard stop. Once set has quiet a bounce on the down side stop which was a bit concerning for.View attachment 14970View attachment 14971



I think you would want to add a bit of weight to the set that is bouncy on the down stop. Try to balance for a consistent speed both up and down and smooth stops.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 5, 2017)

Lets take it a little easy. 


Protech said:


> We manufacture counterweight assist systems as well, and they are designed as a "closed loop" system using roller chain. The setup you've shown lacks this, and you're correct that a batten heavy load would result in a crash.



Just being batten heavy is not going to result in a crash. There are lots of dead haul winches in use and safely so. However, being arbor heavy - if for instance you stripped the lights and not the counterweight - would result in a runaway and crash at the rail (and mercifully put these machines out of action it does appear) .

I'd be curious to know the the safe working load of the winches. The haul line might be the determining factor - 1/8 (or 1/10 if you prefer) of the breaking strength - or in the 700 to 875 range if its 1/4" gac. If it were 3/8" - 14,400 or 1440 to 1800 pound swl with no counterweight. 

Which leads me to add another caution - come up with a protocol and procedures that assure a batten is not unloaded to the point that it is not arbor heavy. That's probably the real danger - and then someone grabbing the pipe when it starts to run away and not letting go. (If a set is out of balance and running away DO NOT TRY TO STOP IT WITH YOUR HANDS. Too many people have held on till their head hits something on the way up.) I'm thinking that is not a practical way to do that automatically.

This would be an a good candidate for replacement with an ETC EXO or or other zero fleet packaged hoists, or Clancy's Powerassist or equals. Any of them should fit right in the same place.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 5, 2017)

Looking at the weights it appears they only have weights making up for the empty weight. The top weight on both sets are red (which is the color they are using for pipe weight) with only a couple or bricks added to take up for (what I'm somewhat guessing) is the electrics added to the line. So I'm gonna say they didn't weight for any of the load added. The house plot for the 1st electric alone is 24 S4s and 8 color scrollers and all the appropriate data and power cable. The 2nd is just 8 parnels and 4 S4s. 

Further problematic on the 3rd elec is the power connections are done in a way that prevents the pipe from flying in far enough to get the arbor to the loading bridge and it doesn't fly out enough for the arbor to get to the fly gallery. I'm going to imagine I'll have the same issue on these. 

There is a plaque dating the system. I want to say 1990's era but I'll check next time I'm at the theatre.

--Edited to correct my many typos


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## Protech (Jul 5, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Lets take it a little easy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mr Conner is correct, I misspoke. I meant to say arbor heavy. I'll edit my post.

The presence of the arbor is the issue. If the system were just being used as a dead haul hoist I'd still recommend that it be updated to current code with additional safety equipment, but otherwise have no issue using it - assuming its been inspected by someone that knows what they are doing.

If you'd like to have someone give you an idea on a price to replace it we may be able to recommend someone in your area. Send me a PM


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 5, 2017)

Aaron Clarke said:


> Looking at the weights it appears they only have weights making up for the empty weight. The top weight on both sets are red (which is the color they are using for pipe weight) with only a couple or bricks added to take up for (what I'm somewhat guessing) is the electrics added to the line. So I'm gonna say they didn't weight for any of the load added. The house plot for the 1st electric alone is 24 S4s and 8 color scrollers and all the appropriate data and power cable. The 2nd is just 8 parnels and 4 S4s.
> 
> Further problematic on the 3rd elec is the power connections are done in a way that prevents the pipe from flying in far enough to get the arbor to the loading bridge and it doesn't fly out enough for the arbor to get to the fly gallery. I'm going to imagine I'll have the same issue on these.
> 
> ...



Sounds workable except the no 3 electric which seems fixable - just don't know best option. Rather than appearance from looking at the weights, I urge you to calculate the weights and see if when empty the set is still batten heavy. Also, rating on winch SWL/haul line size SWL.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 5, 2017)

Confirming @venuetech that is single purchase. My assumption was wrong on that. My email is out to the power that be. 

I've added picture of the component parts. Motor/winch/control plaque.

Fly System is said to be installed in '92. Unsure if the winch was original or later.


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## Protech (Jul 5, 2017)

Very interesting. That looks like ADC built this as a package. I'm not familiar with the product, nor was I aware they made something like it. ADC (Automatic Devices Company in Allentown, PA) makes very nice curtain machines, among other things, and we work with them quite bit. I'd feel more comfortable knowing they built it (if that is in fact the case... someone may have just re-purposed their controller), but of course still exercise caution for the reasons discussed. I'd reach out to them with that serial number, or I can put you in touch with my contact there. They likely still have documentation for it if it was a packaged product that they sold.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 5, 2017)

http://www.automaticdevices.com/2907-silver-service®-6507700780079007-hercules®

Right from catalog. Since these are usually for curtains, which are more tolerant to hard stops and starts, kind of explains that.

This design still feels iffy, and certainly not up to modern standards.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 5, 2017)

Thank you all for the feedback. 

I did have a couple exchanges with the 'director of productions' and it was brief and somewhat curt. 

First response- 
"At one time I had them pretty well balanced....just a little heavy on the arbor....but some people ignore the weights since there is a winch"

So, I presume he got that backwards as that would have created a runaway. Then the 'some people ignore the weights' really supports what I'm seeing in many aspects of the technical systems. An almost non-existant level of supervision and basic standards. 

When I followed up asked about the last inspection I got a response back simply with "yes" in it. 

So I think I'm going to step back and try to use some contacts to arrange an "accidental" meeting with him before I ask any more. To be honest I'd hate some stranger I never met prying into things under my responsibility. Though on the flip side, if this was my responsibility, I wouldn't let anyone operate any technical systems without meeting them first to begin with. 

@Protech- If you wouldn't mind messaging me I would be curious to learn if there is some history on the original use.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 6, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> http://www.automaticdevices.com/2907-silver-service®-6507700780079007-hercules®
> 
> Right from catalog. Since these are usually for curtains, which are more tolerant to hard stops and starts, kind of explains that.
> 
> *This design still feels iffy*, and certainly *not* up to modern standards.


*TLDR warning firmly in place. *
Forewarned is four armed. I'll tell a tale, I believe I recall posting of it here before.
@BillConnerFASTC Your comment excerpted from above Re: "curtains, which are more tolerant to hard stops and starts" reminds me of a venue in Hamilton Ontario, one which opened in 1991 to narrow down the options, was rigged by a quality US based rigging installer but the owners chose to order and import all of their soft goods themselves from a very reputable soft goods supplier in England under an *extremely* attractive preferential trade deal. The riggers completed their installation employing several of my local IA brothers and were fully finished and off site at least a week prior to the arrival of the soft goods. This was brand new construction from the foundations on up. The cyc' was delivered with white ties, the center marked, the center grommet a different color and the center tie a different color as well.
The legs were an excellent quality, heavy weight, black velour with chains a couple of inches above their bottoms and sensible black ties. In the case of borders and full width blacks, black ties were fitted, and the centers were identified similarly to the cyc'.
The prosc', at 27' was quite high with the house curtain tall enough to cover sight-lines and supplied in an extremely heavy orange velour c/w a stitched in lining and in two over-lapping halves to work with the flown traveller track so it could serve as both a guillotine and / or a traveller upon demand.
Bottom Line: This was one *VERY* HEAVY lump of fabric and everyone was relieved it shipped from England as two packages.
The fabricators had calculated the weight in advance and the rigging suppliers were well aware of it. To their credit, they supplied a traveller track capable of dealing with the weight and hung it on a trussed pipe to minimize flexing when the curtain was being operated as a traveller with most of its weight out at the ends of the pipe while the curtain is open.
As the curtain was going to be SO HEAVY and as the theater hoped to operate many performances without having to employ one or more IA brothers on the fly floor for simple shows where the only pipe flying was the house curtain, the owners chose to spend the extra coin for a variable frequency motor and drive (which unfortunately screamed like a banshee but that's another tale) and the soft goods fabricators, fully comprehending the weight of their lined curtain, wisely went with grommets capable of the load and double grommets at all four ends, both halves, to withstand the extra stresses so often imposed upon the ends. The fabricators suggested the provision of short lengths of chain to link the curtain to the traveller track but the owners figured they could save a few pennies by providing their own chains locally rather than shipping them from England. The theater company had performed in Hamilton for decades and in Ottawa prior to that but had always performed in rented facilities thus neither having owned a venue before nor dealt with a facility with a grid and single purchase counter-weight system.
You can probably see where this is going. You know how it goes when you're young, impetuous, ready to take the world by storm and CAN'T WAIT to play with your new toys.
About a week before the curtains arrived, the Head LX (That'd be moi before I became blind and still had a life) had ordered and taken delivery of several hundred Meters of 3/4" matte black twill tape and pre-cut a couple of hundred equal length ties for securing 12/3 SO to LX pipes. The carps, *never ever* having had to fly a lump of cloth this heavy before, weren't willing to invest any time and / or money in sourcing and cutting short lengths of Jack-chain and forming open hooks on the ends. Nawh! Not for the likes of them. They were CARPENTERS, large and in charge, they simply pulled rank and commandeered about sixty of my brand new, freshly cut, ties. It didn't matter to them that the ties were black as they'd be high above sight- lines and never seen again, or so they thought if they thought at all.
The master carpenter proudly flew HIS snazzy new electrically operated fly-pipe into a comfy height then ordered his minions to commence unfolding the huge lumps of fabric and begin tying them on to THEIR pipe. It was fun watching them struggle to muscle the heavy lumps of fabric into position, remember the linings were stitched-in making the curtain all the stiffer and heavier to deal with but eventually they managed to get things into position, properly measure for the overlap, and complete all of their carefully secured ties.
Next they sent someone to the loading floor and proudly hollered up to "Commence loading!"
Then the fun began. You've got to remember they've never had to do this before, they neither owned their own venue nor their own counter-weighted flying system. Also remember this was a chain driven head block with only a 90 degree, grooved, friction wrap on the aircraft cables AND approximately 90% of the curtain's weight was still being borne by the floor.
From the deck you could hear the bricks being piled onto the carriage but with the chain drive in place they had no feel for where they were at balance-wise. As the limits, other than the two absolute EOT's had yet to be accurately set, it wasn't any great hardship when the carriage suddenly dropped a couple of feet as the cables were dragged over their grooved head-block but you should've heard the loader holler when the carriage lunged downward a couple of feet between his knees. It was all somewhat scary to experience first hand but if you want to play the "We're the carpenters here! / We can Lord it over the electricians game" then I'm content to stay safely out of harms way and watch you make entertaining imbeciles of yourselves, ESPECIALLY when you're using MY tie line to do it!!
Eventually the Head carp' felt he was ready to *slowly* raise HIS electrically operated curtain pipe and EVENTUALLY he managed to get the curtain up clear of the floor and bravely run it in and out a couple of times *SLOWLY* whining all the way at the drive's slowest speed setting. REMEMBER, the only limits that are set are the two extreme EOT's. NONE of the other six limits; in, out and four decels, two at either end, have yet to be set.
Next he made one more pass at a slightly faster speed, stopping the drive manually when he felt the curtain was out far enough and again manually as it approached and / or piled slightly on the deck.
And then it happened.
He succumbed to the encouraging cries from his fellow carps, boldly cranked the speed control up to full and flew the curtain in at full speed manually slamming the stop button as it neared the deck.
That's when it REALLY HAPPENED.
The curtain stopped with a jerk and the additional stress on the cloth ties was sufficient for the SR On-Stage tie to snap under the additional weight of the turn back on the On-Stage end and then they snapped their way off stage like a zipper not stopping until the entire SR half of the lined curtain was piled in a crumpled heap on the deck while the SL half headed rapidly grid-wards as the cables slipped over the friction drive head block until the fully loaded carriage crashed to the bottom stops. The carps ended their call and sent their minions home to re-think, or perhaps *finally think*, their situation. Myself and my assistant opened a fresh box of jack chain and fabricated a pile of equal length chains with open- hooked ends to give them half a hint. I even graciously loaned them a couple of pairs of Channel-locks.
I only feel *ever so slightly* nasty posting this but, on the plus side, perhaps others may learn something useful from it and it still makes me giggle to be re-posting this tale. I've met many carpenters I could, and did, respect. A fellow from Radio City who local 1 sent over to play head load-in carp at the Shubert one time is HIGH on my list of young, cracker-jack, top of his game carpenters I've been honored to meet and work with but if a carpenter wants to play the "I'm the boss around here and let me explain life on MY stage to you" game, I can manage to stand back and watch the show.
There's *ALWAYS* something to be learned and you're NEVER too old to learn. Personally, I've found I learn best with my ears open and my mouth shut, but perhaps that's just me. Sometimes you can learn how NOT to do things and that can be beneficial as well.
With apologies for droning on YET again.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## de27192 (Jul 20, 2017)

It's very unusual to see a bar-heavy motor assist.

In the UK I have built quite a few motor-assist counterweight sets, using an electric chain hoist to control the descent of an arbor-heavy set.

The idea being that you take the arbor up to the gallery, then rig a motor above it and attach the hook to arbor. Then you take the weight on the motor and release the brake (not re-applying the brake until the motor is removed). You fill the counterweight arbor to it's max load. Now the bar flies in when you run the motor up, and flies out when you run the motor down. The benefit of this is that you can hang modular sets or LED walls on the fly bar and lift it section by section without having to add more weight each time you lift it. Once the whole thing is in the air, you can then remove the motor hook and still fly it in and out like a normal bar. Then you just re-attach the hook for the load-out.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 20, 2017)

de27192 said:


> It's very unusual to see a bar-heavy motor assist.
> 
> In the UK I have built quite a few motor-assist counterweight sets, using an electric chain hoist to control the descent of an arbor-heavy set.
> 
> The idea being that you take the arbor up to the gallery, then rig a motor above it and attach the hook to arbor. Then you take the weight on the motor and release the brake (not re-applying the brake until the motor is removed). You fill the counterweight arbor to it's max load. Now the bar flies in when you run the motor up, and flies out when you run the motor down. The benefit of this is that you can hang modular sets or LED walls on the fly bar and lift it section by section without having to add more weight each time you lift it. Once the whole thing is in the air, you can then remove the motor hook and still fly it in and out like a normal bar. Then you just re-attach the hook for the load-out.


@de27192 Somewhere along the way, after you've filled the arbor to capacity and loaded the "bar", am I to understand you somehow adjust the arbor for balance before detaching the motor and flying the piece manually? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 20, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> *TLDR warning firmly in place. *
> Forewarned is four armed. I'll tell a tale, I believe I recall posting of it here before.
> @BillConnerFASTC Your comment excerpted from above Re: "curtains, which are more tolerant to hard stops and starts" reminds me of a venue in Hamilton Ontario, one which opened in 1991 to narrow down the options, was rigged by a quality US based rigging installer but the owners chose to order and import all of their soft goods themselves from a very reputable soft goods supplier in England under an *extremely* attractive preferential trade deal. The riggers completed their installation employing several of my local IA brothers and were fully finished and off site at least a week prior to the arrival of the soft goods. This was brand new construction from the foundations on up. The cyc' was delivered with white ties, the center marked, the center grommet a different color and the center tie a different color as well.
> The legs were an excellent quality, heavy weight, black velour with chains a couple of inches above their bottoms and sensible black ties. In the case of borders and full width blacks, black ties were fitted, and the centers were identified similarly to the cyc'.
> ...




Total side bar: The forum needs repository titled "Story time with Ron" and all of Ron stories can be combined for us poor soles that have to live vicariously through others while sitting at there very boring non-theatre day job.


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## de27192 (Jul 20, 2017)

@RonHebbard yes sorry I missed that out from my explanation. I fill the arbor to the top and leave the motor attached all the time. May as well. Better than the risk of getting the set half way lifted then finding out it's heavier than the production carp though it was and now you've got no way to lift it, and you can't add more weight because the arbor is half way down it's travel and the bar can't travel back in because the set hanging on it is in the way.

Once the item is flown, then yes... hopefully you can raise it to where the arbor is in line with the fly floor. Then you can take out the bricks from the fly floor until it's balanced. Working to the load the production carpenter gives you but you can always get a feel for it by trying to lift it the arbor with the hand line (you should always be able to lift the arbor, just not lower it, without the motor). When you're confident that you've a nice balance, you can unclip the motor hook and resume using it like a normal counterweight set.


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## RonHebbard (Jul 20, 2017)

Aaron Clarke said:


> Total side bar: The forum needs repository titled "Story time with Ron" and all of Ron stories can be combined for us poor soles that have to live vicariously through others while sitting at there very boring non-theatre day job.


 @Aaron Clarke Would you like to order volumes one through ten, sign on for the complete series or how would you like to proceed? You keep raggin' me and I'll keep raggin' you. ;^)
Perhaps @BillConnerFASTC would care to release a companion compendium?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jul 20, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @Aaron Clarke Would you like to order volumes one through ten, sign on for the complete series or how would you like to proceed? You keep raggin' me and I'll keep raggin' you. ;^)
> Perhaps @BillConnerFASTC would care to release a companion compendium?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



I'm all for it... I'm like a little kid and get all excited when I see a long post of yours.


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## GreyWyvern (Jul 21, 2017)

Aaron Clarke said:


> I'm all for it... I'm like a little kid and get all excited when I see a long post of yours.


@RonHebbard, there are some of us that enjoy your stories! We aren't raggin' you.
ControlBooth. Come for the advice, stay for @RonHebbard's stories. (Maybe if I say it enough times, @dvsDave will make it official.)


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## Jay Ashworth (Jul 23, 2017)

Aaron Clarke said:


> I'm all for it... I'm like a little kid and get all excited when I see a long post of yours.



I think you're looking for

https://www.controlbooth.com/members/ronhebbard.734/#postings


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## StradivariusBone (Jul 24, 2017)

de27192 said:


> It's very unusual to see a bar-heavy motor assist.
> 
> In the UK I have built quite a few motor-assist counterweight sets, using an electric chain hoist to control the descent of an arbor-heavy set.
> 
> The idea being that you take the arbor up to the gallery, then rig a motor above it and attach the hook to arbor. Then you take the weight on the motor and release the brake (not re-applying the brake until the motor is removed). You fill the counterweight arbor to it's max load. Now the bar flies in when you run the motor up, and flies out when you run the motor down. The benefit of this is that you can hang modular sets or LED walls on the fly bar and lift it section by section without having to add more weight each time you lift it. Once the whole thing is in the air, you can then remove the motor hook and still fly it in and out like a normal bar. Then you just re-attach the hook for the load-out.



Huh! I watched a load-in of a touring show once do this, but with motors hung from the grid and affixed to the batten. Same idea, it was a modular set with lots of steel and moving parts. The part I didn't understand was they had multiple hoists across a single lineset, I couldn't see the arbor clearly, but it didn't appear as though they had added much weight to it (though I could easily be wrong) and just left it unlocked. I'm guessing they had some sort of load cell system to sync the hoists because it looked as though they intended to leave them in for the run of the show and use them to move the sets as needed. Lots of automation and computer controlled gak on the deck. 

I didn't see the show, so I couldn't speak on how frequently those pieces moved (for all I know they could have been static), but it seemed as though they might move at the acts.


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## de27192 (Jul 24, 2017)

The only benefit I can see of attaching to the motors to the batten, is that you can use lower capacity motors to pick up a heavier load, by assisting the motors using the counterweight.

Like, when it comes to variable speed chain hoists, the ones with lower SWLs tend to be the faster ones. So if you had a piece which weighed say 2 tons... and you were using 2 hoists, you'd need to use 2x 1 ton hoists. If you could put a ton in the arbor, you could use 2x half ton hoists. That would allow you more speed because the half tonners are often faster than the 1 tonners. But if you attached a motor to the arbor, you'd still need to use 1x 1 ton hoist so your speed would still be limited to the top speed of a 1-ton motor.

Does that make sense?

The way I was talking about doing it is so that you can build it using the safety and security of a motor, but then hand control back to the flyman to run like a standard lineset


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jul 24, 2017)

I sure don't like the set heavy approach. Would much prefer a failure resulted in load overhead going up, not down. But motor assisted should really be a two way deal, so load is always captive to a continuous loop drive of arbor. Redundancy is a good thing with overhead loads.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jan 30, 2018)

Hey gang- Look what I had the pleasure of walking into last night!

So question came up as I was cleaning this up and inspecting the cable for any obvious damage. 

The electrical tape: Original cable in vinyl coated. The vinyl coating has come off a good portion and at sometime they wrapped the cable in E-tape as a fix. I peeled most it off last night so I could examine the wire itself for any obvious damage but it left me wondering if the E-tape would do anything to help the wire or it was just a stupid think in lieu of ever having a proper system put in?


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## Amiers (Jan 30, 2018)

Nope. Just put on to spite the next person ( you ) who has to clean the schmagma off.


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## Aaron Clarke (Jan 30, 2018)

Amiers said:


> Nope. Just put on to spite the next person ( you ) who has to clean the schmagma off.


It wasn't as awful as I thought it would be. I'm sure it was the cheapest stuff they could find. 

Same couple of "techs" took them too high and damaged two DMX lines which was ran stupid and luckily the DMX cable was sorter than the actual power feeds. GRRR. 

I'll get then to have them replaced sometime even if I have to die trying (which may be what it takes).


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 30, 2018)

The vinyl covered wire rope is to me a sign of inexperience. It never lasts under loads. I discovered it over 40 years ago on a summer theatre turntable. Made sense to me but about half way through summer season it all started shredding in middle of show. Stripped it off the next day, re-tensioned, and was fine for rest of season. Research showed it was a bad application.


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## Aaron Clarke (Feb 1, 2018)

Good News- 

A hastily arranged meeting was held with the director of productions (who charged with over seeing the fly system) and the board president. Both of which had never even taken the time to meet me despite repeated requests to chat. 

Good new:
-Despite me not knowing a hill of beans about rigging compared to a professional- The quickly realized I was more familiar with it then anyone else and I'm now to the Tech chair for the fly system.
-Agreed to actually get a quote on possible remedies instead of just assuming they can't afford it. I imagine giving the current financial status we are probably looking at just converting back to a manual line set. 
-A multi year plan will be developed to guide fundraising efforts for fixes (Why this isn't a standard practice across all areas is just one of the many signs of how poorly the organization has been ran)
-Finally- Until replaced they agreed to tie off the arbor when not in use. I swear it was a cruel joke to agree to this and then make me the one responsible for teaching everyone about it. I'm sure I'll get a number of calls "I pushed the down button but the pipe is not coming down".

Thank you all to the group for your input and encouragement- I hate playing politics but safety is worth it. I'll keep you up to date.


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## Jay Ashworth (Feb 1, 2018)

Aaron Clarke said:


> Total side bar: The forum needs repository titled "Story time with Ron" and all of Ron stories can be combined for us poor soles that have to live vicariously through others while sitting at there very boring non-theatre day job.



Uh, that'd be this:

https://www.controlbooth.com/members/ronhebbard.734/#postings


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## Jay Ashworth (Feb 1, 2018)

Aaron Clarke said:


> I hate playing politics but safety is worth it. I'll keep you up to date.



You're not really 'playing politics'. You're putting your foot down to keep people from getting killed.

Or, as they say it in the medical shows:

"When we make mistakes... people die."


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