# Hard hats in MEWPs



## ndp (Nov 8, 2021)

Do you require hard hats in your personnel lifts/MEWPs? I am reviewing some of our safety policies and trying to make a decision on whether to require hard hats for those operating or riding as a passenger in our scissor lifts. Leaning towards requiring them, but couldn't find lots of info on best practices online. Academic setting, all student operators have been trained by an external company.

Thanks.

- Nick


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## gafftaper (Nov 9, 2021)

I work in a school and was just trained a few months ago by a external company. Hard hats were not required by the school district or the trainers.


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## Harrison Hohnholt (Nov 9, 2021)

There are definitely people that are more versed in this but I always considered a hard hat something that could become a falling object. If I were going to require hard hats in a lift I would want it to be one of the Petzl climbing style with a chin clip.

There are good reasons to wear a hard hat in a lift such as additional work being done overhead or preventing injury on the equipment you are trying to reach with the lift.


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## Van (Nov 9, 2021)

Yep. 100% of the time unless it poses an immediate danger such as looking at something upside down where it will fall off. A Hard hat primarily there to protect you from bumping into sharp and hard objects. When you are in a lift, at height you are MUCH more likely to bag your head on that light or Batten, or overhead set piece, or ... If a hard hat is falling off your head that easily then it is improperly fitted.


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## almorton (Nov 9, 2021)

Your risk assessment ought to lead you here: Is there a risk of impacting the head, which cannot be otherwise mitigated?


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## FMEng (Nov 11, 2021)

Van said:


> Yep. 100% of the time unless it poses an immediate danger such as looking at something upside down where it will fall off. A Hard hat primarily there to protect you from bumping into sharp and hard objects. When you are in a lift, at height you are MUCH more likely to bag your head on that light or Batten, or overhead set piece, or ... If a hard hat is falling off your head that easily then it is improperly fitted.


As I recall, Washington state requires hard hats on lifts. It makes sense because you can run your head into something while raising the lift and focusing your attention elsewhere. The irony is I only tend to hit my head on things when my peripheral vision is blocked by the hat brim. In other words, when I have a hard hat on, I really need a hard hat.


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## Van (Nov 11, 2021)

FMEng said:


> As I recall, Washington state requires hard hats on lifts. It makes sense because you can run your head into something while raising the lift and focusing your attention elsewhere. The irony is I only tend to hit my head on things when my peripheral vision is blocked by the hat brim. In other words, when I have a hard hat on, I really need a hard hat.


One of the reasons why riggers are, typically, allowed to spin the bill on their covers. So your upper peripheral vision is not impaired AND so you don't have tilt your head back so far to look up.


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## FMEng (Nov 13, 2021)

Van said:


> One of the reasons why riggers are, typically, allowed to spin the bill on their covers. So your upper peripheral vision is not impaired AND so you don't have tilt your head back so far to look up.


The radio tower guys swear by the brimless hard hats (Petzl?) with chin straps. I'm not sure if they are rock climbing helmets, or actually made for tower and steel work.

It seems like hard hats used in other countries are more refined, comfortable, and provide more safety than the cheap ones found on our construction sites. If we have to wear the things, why can't we have better ones?


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## egilson1 (Nov 13, 2021)

I’ve been wearing a petzl hard hat for years. Kask makes a good one too. It cheap, but stays on the head when looking up or down.

And remember, The OSHA rule for requiring a hard hat is not “whenever someone is working overhead” as most like to assume, but “whenever there is potential for head trauma”. Hence, OSHA requires hard hats in lifts a majority of the time.


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## TimMc (Nov 13, 2021)

FMEng said:


> The radio tower guys swear by the brimless hard hats (Petzl?) with chin straps. I'm not sure if they are rock climbing helmets, or actually made for tower and steel work.
> 
> It seems like hard hats used in other countries are more refined, comfortable, and provide more safety than the cheap ones found on our construction sites. If we have to wear the things, why can't we have better ones?



Petzl used to have separately certified hard hats for industrial use that looked identical to their climbing helmets. I think the difference was the sticker inside... IOW, the PSE met both sets of requirements but could not be dual-labeled perhaps?


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## Van (Nov 15, 2021)

Back when I was skinny and worked for a living I liked to wear my Petzl climbing hat as a hard hat. It wasn't approved but at that time nobody in the Entertainment industry wore hard cover anyway.


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## TimMc (Nov 15, 2021)

Van said:


> Back when I was skinny and worked for a living I liked to wear my Petzl climbing hat as a hard hat. It wasn't approved but at that time nobody in the Entertainment industry wore hard cover anyway.


Yep, and having head cover of any kind was better than not. Since compliance is more routine these days I've learned to ask Petzl users to "show me your sticker".


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## MikeDonovan (Nov 17, 2021)

We don’t officially require them for operators or passengers of lifts. 

Where we do require it is people who are working on the ground, near the lift. This is especially true of the ground person who is assisting the person in the lift. 
Also, on a busy site with other companies involved, we station a person on the ground, creating a perimeter, keeping people at a safe distance from the lift. This person is wearing a hard-hat. 

A lot of our lift operators (myself included) prefer to wear a hard hat at heights, especially while rigging.


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## JacobRothermel (Nov 17, 2021)

We are required to be harnessed into a MEWP *and* to wear an Environmental Health & Safety Dept-approved hard hat w/ a chin strap as well. We recently brought a slew of the Petzl vented hats for ourselves and our student workers because they are approved by our EHS dept as both a bump cap and a hard hat (in a theatre-setting, NOT necessarily on all construction sites), have a chin strap, and are comfortable enough to wear pretty much all day long. They're pricey, especially if you're buying a dozen or more at a time, but they're nice enough we don't have to fight too much to get people to wear them so we've managed to "engineer out" a lot of the student resistance to wearing PPE at height.

They've saved my noggin a half-dozen times already in the year or so we've been wearing them.

Good luck,
jake


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## Aaron S. (Nov 17, 2021)

Van said:


> One of the reasons why riggers are, typically, allowed to spin the bill on their covers. So your upper peripheral vision is not impaired AND so you don't have tilt your head back so far to look up.


Anyone can spin the harness around and wear it “backwards” AS LONG AS the hard hat is rated and labeled as such. If the hard hat isn’t made to be worn like that no one should wear it that way. Riggers included. 

I like the Petzl style hard hats. A number of companies make them and they are comfortable and the ones I have looked at have the current ANSI rating on them. And you don’t have the brim to contend with.


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## Kristi R-C (Nov 17, 2021)

My hard hat has a chin strap because I work at height often and don’t want it to fall off. 

The answer: probably yes. Is there a risk of bumping your head on anything - including the railing of the MEWP? Is there a risk of someone dropping something on you? Then yes.


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## ndp (Nov 18, 2021)

Thanks all for the great advice and experience. I made the change in requiring them last week and have gotten great adoption from a majority of our club. People have commented how it's saved them from knocking their head on truss and other things many times in just the last week they've been wearing them.

And in the anecdotal "what do you wear", I have a PMI Advantage (https://pmirope.com/product/pmi-advantage-helmet/) and absolutely love it. Much prefer it to my Petzl Vertex Vent, but YMMV.

- Nick


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## SteveB (Nov 20, 2021)

JacobRothermel said:


> We are required to be harnessed into a MEWP *and* to wear an Environmental Health & Safety Dept-approved hard hat w/ a chin strap as well. We recently brought a slew of the Petzl vented hats for ourselves and our student workers because they are approved by our EHS dept as both a bump cap and a hard hat (in a theatre-setting, NOT necessarily on all construction sites), have a chin strap, and are comfortable enough to wear pretty much all day long. They're pricey, especially if you're buying a dozen or more at a time, but they're nice enough we don't have to fight too much to get people to wear them so we've managed to "engineer out" a lot of the student resistance to wearing PPE at height.
> 
> They've saved my noggin a half-dozen times already in the year or so we've been wearing them.
> 
> ...


Who set this requirement ?. My research indicated there's no requirement for a harness when in a mast only lift, only used when in a boom lift.

As well, we only require a hard hat when there's work going on overhead and a potential for a dropped part or tool. When I'm focusing as example I do not wear a HH as I need to be able to see overhead.


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## TimMc (Nov 20, 2021)

SteveB said:


> Who set this requirement ?. My research indicated there's no requirement for a harness when in a mast only lift, only used when in a boom lift.
> 
> As well, we only require a hard hat when there's work going on overhead and a potential for a dropped part or tool. When I'm focusing as example I do not wear a HH as I need to be able to see overhead.



Employers are free to enact more stringent workplace safety requirements as they see fit.


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## FMEng (Nov 20, 2021)

TimMc said:


> Employers are free to enact more stringent workplace safety requirements as they see fit.


And some states have stricter standards, too.


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## What Rigger? (Nov 21, 2021)

SteveB said:


> Who set this requirement ?. My research indicated there's no requirement for a harness when in a mast only lift, only used when in a boom lift.
> 
> As well, we only require a hard hat when there's work going on overhead and a potential for a dropped part or tool. When I'm focusing as example I do not wear a HH as I need to be able to see overhead.


Being able to see up without exposing one's face is the reason behind the shape of most "climbing" style helmets. Smaller brims allow this to happen. As always, standards can vary by location and it's always a good idea to consult with your AHJ regarding the how and why of safety requirements.


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## bobgaggle (Nov 22, 2021)

FMEng said:


> The irony is I only tend to hit my head on things when my peripheral vision is blocked by the hat brim. In other words, when I have a hard hat on, I really need a hard hat.



Had a guy from the utility come out to look at the gas meter in my house. My 100 year old house has a basement ceiling just north of 6'. I'm 6' and can walk around down there with just my hair grazing the joists. This guy was 6' and kept hitting his head on all my joists because he had a hard hat on the whole time. I told him he could take it off and save himself the trouble. He said no, company rule, safety first.


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## bdkdesigns (Nov 23, 2021)

SteveB said:


> Who set this requirement ?. My research indicated there's no requirement for a harness when in a mast only lift, only used when in a boom lift.
> 
> As well, we only require a hard hat when there's work going on overhead and a potential for a dropped part or tool. When I'm focusing as example I do not wear a HH as I need to be able to see overhead.


Welcome to the world of red tape. On a gig early on coming out of the pandemic with several different IATSE locals on-site. "The client needs these two scissor lifts moved over there because they want to set up an interview tent here." I was only able to move one, the other I said I need to locate a harness to move it. They replied why do you need a harness, you aren't going up? It's just a small scissor lift! Also why can you only move one without a harness?

Well you see my employer requires it (whose site we were on) when driving any kind of lift, no matter what. However scissor lift 1 over here has moveable controls so I can walk next to it driving it to the new location, however they are fixed on lift 2 so I can't do that, thus I need a harness. I've even had to pay a lot of money getting a rated attachment point added to a standard single man push type bucket lift. In an AWP, you must be harnessed.

With that being said, we had someone that was extremely by the book with the rules. He left us and started working with our lift provider. He lost his life loading one of the lifts onto a truck not wearing a harness. We were all shocked he wasn't wearing it.


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## What Rigger? (Nov 23, 2021)

bobgaggle said:


> Had a guy from the utility come out to look at the gas meter in my house. My 100 year old house has a basement ceiling just north of 6'. I'm 6' and can walk around down there with just my hair grazing the joists. This guy was 6' and kept hitting his head on all my joists because he had a hard hat on the whole time. I told him he could take it off and save himself the trouble. He said no, company rule, safety first.


This is me walking around below decks of the mighty sailing ship Columbia because I could never be bothered to take my lid off, and tapping every frame.


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## What Rigger? (Nov 23, 2021)

bdkdesigns said:


> Welcome to the world of red tape. On a gig early on coming out of the pandemic with several different IATSE locals on-site. "The client needs these two scissor lifts moved over there because they want to set up an interview tent here." I was only able to move one, the other I said I need to locate a harness to move it. They replied why do you need a harness, you aren't going up? It's just a small scissor lift! Also why can you only move one without a harness?
> 
> Well you see my employer requires it (whose site we were on) when driving any kind of lift, no matter what. However scissor lift 1 over here has moveable controls so I can walk next to it driving it to the new location, however they are fixed on lift 2 so I can't do that, thus I need a harness. I've even had to pay a lot of money getting a rated attachment point added to a standard single man push type bucket lift. In an AWP, you must be harnessed.
> 
> With that being said, we had someone that was extremely by the book with the rules. He left us and started working with our lift provider. He lost his life loading one of the lifts onto a truck not wearing a harness. We were all shocked he wasn't wearing it.


With regards to the lift provider, would this happen to have been in Florida? We got word of a fatality that fits this description not so long ago.


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## bdkdesigns (Nov 23, 2021)

What Rigger? said:


> With regards to the lift provider, would this happen to have been in Florida? We got word of a fatality that fits this description not so long ago.


Sadly yes, it made the news cycle since it happened on property. Probably two or three years ago now.


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## Calc (Nov 24, 2021)

JacobRothermel said:


> We are required to be harnessed into a MEWP *and* to wear an Environmental Health & Safety Dept-approved hard hat w/ a chin strap as well.




SteveB said:


> Who set this requirement ?. My research indicated there's no requirement for a harness when in a mast only lift, only used when in a boom lift.



In our training earlier this year, the trainer repeatedly stressed that all MEWPs require fall protection, but that guard rails meeting certain standards (height, stability) _can qualify_. 
In our scissor and mast lifts the railings satisfy the standard, and we are not required to wear fall arrest. The boom lifts we are required to wear harnesses.

For hard hats, the rule is to wear them in the lift if there is a danger of hitting your head. This leads to mixed-precautions. Driving the scissor lift in the arena? Hard hat, but no harness. Boom lift outdoor for the football game? Harness, but no hard hat.


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## JacobRothermel (Dec 2, 2021)

FMEng said:


> And some states have stricter standards, too.




TimMc said:


> Employers are free to enact more stringent workplace safety requirements as they see fit.


Ding ding ding! My university / EHS dept derived this requirement, partially because I work primarily w/ students the majority of the time. OSHA does not require harnesses in MEWPs but we do. And, again as a more-than-we-might-be-required-to-do requirement, if you're wearing a harness - you're wearing a hard hat. No exceptions. Thus, the nice comfortable ones so fewer complain / attempt to evade the req.

TBH, so far as I know, this isn't required by all Facilities folk, but it certainly is inside my PAC.

Good luck,


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