# What’s your favorite fastener?



## delnor (Mar 11, 2003)

I use screws, nails are kinda old school. But can be alot more accurate. I stll use them for lots of stuff.  What do you guys do?


----------



## tm1000 (Mar 12, 2003)

I use screws, under pressure nails always seem to come out for me, whereas screws tend to hold better under pressure.


----------



## TechDirector (Mar 12, 2003)

I can't stand nails!!! They are too much work to put in and when some bumbo decides to bump the flat or something else, it comes apart!!! I use screws because if you had the choice to use a hammer or a drill, I'd choose the drill REMEMBER!!! TOOLS MAKE THE MAN. lol.


----------



## TheMockery (Mar 13, 2003)

I agree, nails are a lot harder to put in. Especially if you have rather inexperienced people (or actors) working on the set...they're bound to bend more nails trying than put in screws completely wrong. From my experience, anyway.


----------



## delnor (Mar 13, 2003)

Yeah I would never use nails for an entire set, just little detailed things. Like molding, picture frames. Stuff like that. They are not good for stregnth, just for the finishing touches because the holes are not as noticable.


----------



## Jo-JotheSoundDog (Mar 18, 2003)

*fasteners*

It really comes down to the old saying "Use the right tool for the right job".
It most professional shops flats are built with pneumatic staples and glue. 2x4 based platforms generally use drywall screws. Lag bolts are used for fastening casters onto platforms. Nails really don't have much of a place in theatre, but I have worked with scenic designers who have used nails to get the "look". So for me to say what my favorite fastener is totally depends on the application of the task on hand.


----------



## delnor (Mar 19, 2003)

Actually, I have in the past made flats with nails and a piece of steal. It's kind of an old trick I think. If you put the flat togther and lay a piece of hard metal down under the flat and then nail into it real strait the idea is that the nail goes all the way through the flat and gets pushed out when it hits the steal plate. That way you get a nail head type effect on both sides of the nail and they dont come out that way. They can be much stronger then staples but most people don't bother anymore because its time consuming.


----------



## TechDirector (Mar 19, 2003)

delnor said:


> Actually, I have in the past made flats with nails and a piece of steal. It's kind of an old trick I think. If you put the flat togther and lay a piece of hard metal down under the flat and then nail into it real strait the idea is that the nail goes all the way through the flat and gets pushed out when it hits the steal plate. That way you get a nail head type effect on both sides of the nail and they dont come out that way. They can be much stronger then staples but most people don't bother anymore because its time consuming.



Thats a good idea. Maybe they used that before they had screws though. lol. That would seem to take a lot of pounding away because your actually trying to bend a nail thats going straight into the metal. But that is a good idea if you run out of screws and your desperate. All you need is......what and 30 ounce hammer? haha j/p.


----------



## delnor (Mar 21, 2003)

Naa its not that bad, Iv done it quite a few times, it works really well u need softer nails, I can't remember what kind we used. They wernt like regular ones they were a softer metal. The problem with screws on flats is that they show through with the fabric. I think stapes are the next best thing.


----------



## ship (Mar 29, 2003)

*Clout Nails*

The Process you describe is called Clout Nailing. I grew up with this method and used it long before drywall screws and screw guns came on the market. The nails usually used are cut nails similar to carpet tacks. Because they have a flat side, when they hit a hard surface after being driven thru the wood, they bend and curl up upon themselves thus locking the nail into the lumber. Very effective way of fastening keystones and corner blocks in making a soft flat. 
Benefits of this method over using normal nails or screws is that nails won’t dig into the lumber or lie flat when bent, drywall screws in that thickness of material won’t have much holding power and it’s difficult to have the screws countersink into the lumber without them stripping out in the hole, unless unless you countersink. You could also use longer screws and grind off the tips. Other option would be to use narrow profile head drywall screws or use wood screws both of which have better thread patterns in the case of a wood screw for it's short length, or a narrow head easier to sink into the wood. 
Clout nailing for the most part has been replaced by use of pneumatic staples which when used with wood glue will hold the joint together until the glue dries just fine. The glue attaching the keystones and corner blocks when they are run with grain crossing the joint is what holds together the joint. That is unless the joint gets wet or is flexed, than it’s probably the fasteners that are primarily holding it together until it fails.

You can use drywall screws, but it will take longer than using pneumatic screws and it takes much more work in replacing stripped screws or cutting off the tips that poke thru. Drywall screws also have the chance of rusting a bit easier with the glue and sizing used in making up the soft flat.


----------



## vulcan (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: What’s your favorite fastener?*

we use drywall screws for just about everything that we build. in fact i just completed a cleaning session of our workshop and threw away about 5 pounds of nails. as far as screw holes showing up in flats, that's relatively easy to fix as well. countersink the screw a little, masking tape over the hole, paint as needed. of course most of out flats are 2x2 frame works with blue insulation foam faces.


----------



## bluesbabypoet (Feb 16, 2004)

we use screws for everything. nails are so much harder to get in and if they dont fall out, you'll end up cutting yourself trying to get them out. We have a bunch of old flats that are held together with glue.... just yuck. We cant use them for anything and we cant trash them because they're too big to move. but yeah, screws are the best.


----------



## Nephilim (Feb 16, 2004)

Frankly, I like to think I'm the kind of guy that could screw an entire set.




...puns intended.


----------



## Mayhem (Feb 16, 2004)

*Re: fasteners*


Jo-JotheSoundDog said:


> It really comes down to the old saying "Use the right tool for the right job"......... So for me to say what my favorite fastener is totally depends on the application of the task on hand.


I think Jo-Jo has hit the nail on the head here.

I look at what is going to give me the strongest and most practical result. If it can be welded, I will weld it. But I also use chipboard screws (self drilling, self countersinking), Hex head self drillers for wood/steel, rivets, good old nuts and bolts (you can always recess the heads and trim the threads if you need a flush finish) and yes, I still use nails.

However, most of my nailing is done with a line bradder, using 30mm brads. If I am building one off, throw away items like stage pods for a set pyro shot than I will use glue and brads. They are also perfect for quickly holding something in place so you can drill and screw easier. I have never had any brads work loose as the heads are flared and the bradder drives them under the surface.

If you are using some 8 -10mm (10mm is 3/8" I think) to make storage boxes or rack selves, then you can't screw them together! 

Cheers,


----------



## KKRoadie (Feb 17, 2004)

When in doubt....

USE GAFFER'S TAPE!

You can never go wrong with a good roll of Mil-Spec Gaffer's tape

You can even fasten a muffler back on to a truck (trust me I know)


----------



## HMOcidalmaniac (Feb 17, 2004)

you'd be hard pressed to find something that WASN"t built and/or fixed with screws at my shop-

yay MAKITA!!


----------



## soundman (Feb 17, 2004)

screws because they are reusable. Thats right at strike we have someone sort all the screws and put them back in the buckets. Now when ever I build something and see a certian screw color I get a flash back. 

Mike
How would you strike a set that was nailed togheter?


----------



## OnWithTheShow (Feb 17, 2004)

Well if I go solely by the title of this topic that I would have to go with a snap button. There is nothing like having a snap up jacket and the pleasing sounds it makes when you take it off or the feel of locking those snaps into place when putting it on.

As far as scenic construction, I like screws for hollywood flats and platforms, lag bolts for castors, carriage bolts for connecting platforms, machine bolts for connecting hollywood flats, we use a air stapler for traditional flats, and thats about it.

Oh and velcro is always fun to play with and also the new 3m stuff....Dual Lock...much stronger than velcro.


----------



## nate (May 7, 2004)

We always use screws. And duct tape. A LOT of duct tape.

-nate


----------



## ricc0luke (May 7, 2004)

The board of directors at our community theater just hate screws.... Instead, they insist on nails, which they by themselves to keep the different directors from just buying screws all the time. 

On of of the productions that I build on though we use screws, bolts, or lag screws..... but I still use nails for some stuff..... like attaching stuff to the stage floor with double headed nails....

They say that screws just create a mess out of things.... but that is only because A.) the person putting them in was an idiot and stripped them, -or- B.) the person just ripped the two items apart without bothering to unscrew them.....

So we just don't listen to the board......

Maybe that is why they don't trust me.......


----------



## zac850 (May 7, 2004)

I like screws for that and also cause there easier to take out when it comes time to strike. with nails you need to work to get them out, with screws you just unscrew them, and your done... much easier if you need a quick strike


----------



## theaterscout (Jan 27, 2005)

I prefer screws to nails in a big way. Screws are just a lot easier to work with and they are a huge help in strike. I work in a high school as the Set Director so when I am trying to organize a strike that has to get everything down and stored in about three hours, its just a lot less of a hassle to use screws. Since we don't have the largest storage space either, we prefer to take everything apart after we are done. I would also like to state that reusing screws, I found, isn't the best idea. often they will become bent , get stripped, and just give you more of a headache than you want. i prefer to jsut collect all of the screws that were just taken out and pitch them.
But true to what you are saying, it does depend on what type of set you are condtructing.


----------



## Robert (Jan 27, 2005)

Staples and glue are my friends. Lots of glue with the staples just holding the wood together until the glue dries. 
Nails only for finish or if there is a sheer load. Ever break off a "dry-wall" or "multi-purpose" screw when it gets bent? Those screws are very brittle - lots of compression strength, no sheer strength. When building ladder or step units that have sheer loads on them I will screw them together to get a compression force between the two, then I'll add a nail. Wood screws are generally stronger, but take more time to use properly. 

I actually took a 2 x 4 and drove a nail, screw,2 lag screws (one pre-drilled ,one not) and a bolt through it. I then split it in half to reveal the holes each one made in it. The screw was the least destructive to the wood. It had the smallest hole and seemed to repair itself better. Bolts are very strong as long as you use the same hole every time and don't re-drill in the ends of your platform or legs. Lag screws require pre-drilling to work properly. Try the experiment I mentioned and see what your results are.

Rule of thumb for me - Always use the largest nail, staple, or screw you can without going through the other side. Does not apply to attaching things like 1/8" luan to 2 x 4. 

Another rule of thumb - nail, screw, or staple should be three times the thickness of the item you are attaching. Once again this is a rule of thumb, it does not apply in all situations. 

And yes, throw away those old screws. The cost of s screw is generally less then a penny and a used one can add hours to a build or strike. Aluminum cans are worth more to recycle than screws - recycle your cans and buy new screws.


----------

