# Fixing Multi-cable



## Dustincoc (May 4, 2008)

What is the best way to provide strain relief on multicables? I posted a thread a while back describing the issues we are having. The cable hasn't been terminated correctly and there is no chance of getting the money for the socapex connectors or anything else for that matter(They can barely pay to keep me for the summer to do the work). I'm just looking to patch them up for the next year, the theatre is being completely renovated starting next May. 

We're hoping that since they have an extra $400,000(supposedly) in the renovation budget that we'll be getting some new gear. We're hoping for 1-1 dimming in the new space and I'm going to recommend the replacement of multicable be on the top of the list. 

Unfortunately I'm being placed in the position of being told to fix everything lighting related this summer with a very small if existant budget for parts(Still trying to figure out how I'm sending dimmers in for repair with no money). 

I'm dealing with the sparking by cutting the cable back where the outer Jacket ends and striping back the outer Jacket about 2 foot, essentially duplicating what's already there but removing the bad sections on the ends.


----------



## Les (May 4, 2008)

I believe there is something called Kellems Grips (or something to that effect) that is like a wire rope 'sock' or sleeve that provides strain relief for larger cables as well as multi-conductor.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 4, 2008)

Lester said:


> I believe there is something called Kellems Grips (or something to that effect) that is like a wire rope 'sock' or sleeve that provides strain relief for larger cables as well as multi-conductor.



I believe Kellums Grips are used for pulling and hanging cable to place the weight of the cable on the outside sheath instead of the interior wires where it could do damage.


----------



## Les (May 4, 2008)

Correct. Sorry if I misunderstood your question.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 4, 2008)

I need something for where the wires come out of their sheath. What I have are 16 conductor multicable that breaks directly into Stagepin. The correct way to break a multicable into stagepin is to put a socapex connector on the multicable, then plug a socapex to stagepin breakout into it. Since I can't get(due to the budget) socapex connectors(which are rather expensive and difficult to install) which usually provide the strain relief, I need to find a way of strain reliefing the cable where the outer jacket end and the wires begin to break out into individual connectors.


----------



## Sean (May 4, 2008)

Try looking at something like these:http://www.rshughes.com/products/051135_36001.html

Of course, by the time you do all the heat shrinking, etc, you might have spent almost as much money/time as doing it the "other way".

--Sean


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 4, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> I need something for where the wires come out of their sheath. What I have are 16 conductor multicable that breaks directly into Stagepin. The correct way to break a multicable into stagepin is to put a socapex connector on the multicable, then plug a socapex to stagepin breakout into it. Since I can't get(due to the budget) socapex connectors(which are rather expensive and difficult to install) which usually provide the strain relief, I need to find a way of strain reliefing the cable where the outer jacket end and the wires begin to break out into individual connectors.



That construction is not compliant with NEC article 520, and would not be compliant even if you added sleeving and heat-shrink tubing. Your current setup is not really safe, since the inner conductor insulation is no longer protected by an outer jacket. Article 520 requires extra hard usage cord in a theatre (except as noted below), and what you have does not come close to meeting that requirement. My advice: for safety, fix it or take it out of service.

You need to transition the multicable trunk to type S or SJ (or one of their variants) single-circuit, 3 conductor cables. If SJ (junior hard service cord), the cables must be under 20' in length. You can use a connector pair (like Socapex), or a listed electrical box with terminal strips, wire nuts, or butt splices to accomplish the transition. 

Proper strain relief must be provided for both the multi trunk and the single-circuit cables, the cheapest being listed two-screw connectors, and the best for the large-diameter multi trunk being a Kellems wire-basket grip. Kellems grips are not cheap, however.

The box approach is terribly ungainly for humping the multi around, but it's cheap and code-complaint.

ST


----------



## Dustincoc (May 4, 2008)

The multi-cable itself is type SO 16/C 12ga so I've got the cable part more than covered. 

I'll talk to the department director on Tuesday when he gets beck from NYC. The I talked with the teacher today and he told me that it shouldn't need strain relief and wrapping in in Electrical tape should be good enough. I understand the NEC thing and all and I wish we had the money but I'm basicly being told to make everything work safely(i.e. no students getting electrocuted) with what we have on hand. How much do breakout boxes cost, most of our multi is used for semi-permenant runs where we often hang lights but have limited circuits(such as FOH which only has one dropbox)

If anyone could tell me where to get any documents on the NEC rules specifically regarding multicable, that might be a big help.

My whole point in this post is to find a way to at least coming close to the spirit of NEC without having to spend a fortune that we don't have. I'm done with this theatre for now and my job is to clear off the unwritten to do list wihich is about 100 pages long. I'm trying to make it the safest I can for next years season as the place is being majorly renovated in a years time and we are really hoping to get some new gear at that point out of the excess from the renovations budget(as on now - $400,000). At that point, it we will have money, but for now I have to work with under $500 max for everything(unit parts, expendables, ect).


----------



## derekleffew (May 4, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> ...If anyone could tell me where to get any documents on the NEC rules specifically regarding multicable, that might be a big help...


I believe Sec. 520-68, "Conductors for Portables" is applicable.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 4, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> The multi-cable itself is type SO 16/C 12ga so I've got the cable part more than covered.
> I'll talk to the department director on Tuesday when he gets beck from NYC. The I talked with the teacher today and he told me that it shouldn't need strain relief and wrapping in in Electrical tape should be good enough. I understand the NEC thing and all and I wish we had the money but I'm basicly being told to make everything work safely(i.e. no students getting electrocuted) with what we have on hand. How much do breakout boxes cost, most of our multi is used for semi-permenant runs where we often hang lights but have limited circuits(such as FOH which only has one dropbox)
> If anyone could tell me where to get any documents on the NEC rules specifically regarding multicable, that might be a big help.
> My whole point in this post is to find a way to at least coming close to the spirit of NEC without having to spend a fortune that we don't have. I'm done with this theatre for now and my job is to clear off the unwritten to do list wihich is about 100 pages long. I'm trying to make it the safest I can for next years season as the place is being majorly renovated in a years time and we are really hoping to get some new gear at that point out of the excess from the renovations budget(as on now - $400,000). At that point, it we will have money, but for now I have to work with under $500 max for everything(unit parts, expendables, ect).



Sorry, but there is no "in the spirit of the NEC". The cable assembly either is or is not compliant. And electrical tape wrapped around the inner conductors surely is not. Your department director should be made aware of this, since there is liability for him or her.

The parts to make the box at each end should cost no more than $50, but you need to get a couple of Greenlee punches to punch the holes for the two different size strain reliefs.

Very important: you need to seek advice and supervision on how to make this box if you are not familiar with the tools, parts, grounding requirements, and risks.

ST


----------



## JD (May 4, 2008)

Funny the subject of Kellems grips came up. I just had one laying on my bench. This one would be good up to 1 inch dia cable. (they get a lot shorter) Kind of like a Chinese handcuff. The two eyelets go on the connectors regular strain relief screws. (See attached)


----------



## Les (May 4, 2008)

Did you know that Kellems Grips were invented by a woman? 

Seriously! Vivien Kellems. Here's the Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vivien_Kellems


----------



## derekleffew (May 4, 2008)

Lester said:


> Did you know that Kellems Grips were invented by a woman? ...


No, but I'm not surprised. Consider what else one could put in a Kellems Grip. Strain-inducing, rather than strain-relief!


----------



## Les (May 4, 2008)

Maybe if you find that the Kellems Grips from your electrical supply house are priced too high, you could find a similar yet cheaper version at your local adult toy store. Derek started it. haha


----------



## avkid (May 4, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> No, but I'm not surprised. Consider what else one could put in a Kellems Grip. Strain-inducing, rather than strain-relief!


Derek, that's just wrong.
There are children about, so be careful.


----------



## derekleffew (May 4, 2008)

I was talking about this. Of what are you guys thinking?


----------



## Les (May 4, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I was talking about this. Of what are you guys thinking?



uh huh...


----------



## Grog12 (May 4, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I was talking about this. Of what are you guys thinking?


1st rule of holes...when you're in one stop digging.


----------



## derekleffew (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> 1st rule of holes...when you're in one stop digging.


Thanks, Grog. I've dug a hole lot a wholes, but nobody ever offered me that bit o' wisdom.


----------



## soundlight (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> 1st rule of holes...when you're in one stop digging.



Aww, but it's so much fun to throw them a big shovel after they've been digging with a trowel for a few minutes!


----------



## Grog12 (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Thanks, Grog. I've dug a hole lot a wholes, but nobody ever offered me that bit o' wisdom.


Thanks, Grog. I've dug a whole lot of holes...

Where's the champagne?


----------



## derekleffew (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> Thanks, Grog. I've dug a whole lot of holes...
> 
> Where's the champagne?


Its [sic] not coming. 
It's [sic] label fell off. 

I hypothesized I should need to express the phrase in colloquy to which you can relate.

Help me out here, lieperjp. We'll force grog and gafftaper to "talk good English" [sic] yet.


----------



## Grog12 (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Its [sic] not coming.
> It's [sic] label fell off.
> I hypothesized I should need to express the phrase in colloquy to which you can relate.
> Help me out here, lieperjp. We'll force grog and gafftaper to "talk good English" [sic] yet.


Excuses are like butt holes Derek...we all have one and they all stink.


----------



## lieperjp (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Its [sic] not coming.
> It's [sic] label fell off.
> I hypothesized I should need to express the phrase in colloquy to which you can relate.
> Help me out here, lieperjp. We'll force grog and gafftaper to "talk good English" [sic] yet.



Um... I would have to say that they've got you here, Derek! And I hope you meant colloquialism instead of colloquy - They're slightly different things!  sorry!  ... I wonder if anyone else knows why


> "talk good English"



was in quotation marks? Or are we the only ones?


----------



## Dustincoc (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I believe Sec. 520-68, "Conductors for Portables" is applicable.



Anyone got what exact text is pertinant? I've read it over several times and I can't find much about multi-conductors other than on the construction of breakouts.


----------



## derekleffew (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> Excuses are like butt holes Derek...we all have one and they all stink.


You just HAD to go there, didn't you?


lieperjp said:


> Um... I would have to say that they've got you here. Ambiguous pronoun usage! Me (Derek), or Grog? And I hope you meant colloquialism instead of colloquy - Of course I did; but whom, besides you, would notice?  They're slightly different things!  sorry!  ... I wonder if anyone else knows why?...Or are we the only ones?


So nice to, finally, have [split infinitive intentional] a member of comrades-in-arm.


----------



## lieperjp (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> You just HAD to go there, didn't you?
> So nice to, finally, have [split infinitive intentional] a member of comrades-in-arm.




Well, technically I meant the quote and the following fragment to be the concluding portion of the question, however the point was taken (by both sides) nevertheless. Sorry for apparently leaving out a question mark!


----------



## Grog12 (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> You just HAD to go there, didn't you?


Hi, Grog12, thought we'd met.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 5, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> You just HAD to go there, didn't you?
> So nice to, finally, have [split infinitive intentional] a member of comrades-in-arm.


What happened to the poor unsafe, disaster multicable and its end users while you guys were showing off? I'll send you all a free copy of "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" if we can get back to the topic.
I hope nobody gets hurt by that cable. We'll send them you language mavens, if that happens.

ST


----------



## Grog12 (May 5, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> What happened to the poor unsafe, disaster multicable and its end users while you guys were showing off? I'll send you all a free copy of "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" if we can get back to the topic.
> I hope nobody gets hurt by that cable. We'll send them you language mavens, if that happens.
> 
> ST



If you want unsafe multi-cable I'll show you a picture of what we have in my space when I get to work tommorow.

It *will* make you cry.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 5, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> Anyone got what exact text is pertinant? I've read it over several times and I can't find much about multi-conductors other than on the construction of breakouts.



The pertinent wording is the requirement for listed, extra hard usage cables.

Editorial from ST:

A. Without their jacket stripped back to expose the inner conductors, like your rig.

B. See table 400.5 for cable types that are extra hard usage.

ST


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> If you want unsafe multi-cable I'll show you a picture of what we have in my space when I get to work tommorow.
> It *will* make you cry.



I'll be glad to look at it.

However, I don't think we're in a contest to see who can be least Code-compliant.

We all need to be working on fixing this stuff or getting rid of it.
ST


----------



## Grog12 (May 5, 2008)

I agree with you Steve...if only I had the authority I'd throw every piece I have away.

But I don't.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 5, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> I agree with you Steve...if only I had the authority I'd throw every piece I have away.
> 
> But I don't.



I would fix it to code or throw it away and replace it but we just don't have the money to do either. I don't even think I have the authority to take it out of service. I'm done after this summer(the down season) and even if I take it out of service, It'd be back in use just as soon as September rolls around.


----------



## derekleffew (May 6, 2008)

Thank you for getting us back on track, STEVETERRY. I apologize for the grammatical diversion/detour/hi-jack.

Dustincoc, if all the non-code compliant multi disappeared tomorrow, as in sold for the scrap copper, would your venue have enough 12/3 SO (OW) to make single runs/hods? The decision isn't really yours to make, although you can vehemently suggest/demand, but really it's up to the venue owner and his/her insurance carrier. I don't see an inexpensive way of making your existing cable code-compliant, but that's no excuse for foregoing safety. Sixteen conductor cable sounds odd, so perhaps even the multi-cable itself does not meet the current code.

I, and ControlBooth, would never advise someone to purposefully do something to violate the NEC, unless no other alternative could be found, and even then, would use every precaution available. Take a lesson from ship.


----------



## Grog12 (May 6, 2008)

I, and ControlBooth, would never advise someone to purposefully do something to violate the NEC, unless no other alternative could be found, and even then, would use every precaution available. 

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.


----------



## TimMiller (May 6, 2008)

Hey I got lots of cable like that . Just its nicely strain relieved and heavily shrink wrapped. 

I have a few questions about what are up to code?
Here is the first pic, The initial tie in


The very well color coded step down transformer bank


You dont really need soco either


Then there is dimmer beach


----------



## TimMiller (May 6, 2008)

Then the fancy way to add dimmers when you have run out of cables


Of course you are supposed to have a properly sized breaker


Hey Look the thing actually works


Now for the disclamer, I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANY OF THESE PRACTICES. ALL ELECTRICAL WIRING SHOULD BE DONE IN ACCORDANCE TO THE NEC and NFPA.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 6, 2008)

Grog12 said:


> I, and ControlBooth, would never advise someone to purposefully do something to violate the NEC, unless no other alternative could be found, and even then, would use every precaution available.
> 
> THE FOLLOWING IS NOT AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION TO ANYTHING.



That looks about likw what we have, except the wires are wrapped in Electric tape.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 6, 2008)

TimMiller said:


> You dont really need soco either



That even scares me, and that's saying something...


----------



## derekleffew (May 6, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> That even scares me, and that's saying something...


Yes. I don't see even a single safety cable holding the PAR Bar to the truss.

Though limited in budget, educational institutions need to be even more safe than the professionals.

Dustin, we want to help you, and I think have offered all the suggestions we can.


----------



## TimMiller (May 6, 2008)

One way to go is mount the stage pin connectors in a box, and hard wire the cable to the box. Like an audio snake. Of course use proper strain reliefs. I know those strain reliefs get extremely expensive very quickly. I bought about 6 HUBBLE 2" strain reliefs and it ran me around 300. I had to strain relieve some 18/24 or something like that. Big cable, thin wires. It was for 24V motor control.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 6, 2008)

Good news people, I talked to the director of the department today as we finalized the employment stuff and he said that within reason, I can get what I need to meet code, we have several thousand if need be. 

Now, I need to know what options I have as far as meeting code for the ends of the cable. I know I can use Socapex connectors or some type of box. Any other options? I want to avoid using Socapex because of the complexitys in installing it and the high cost for each connector as well as the breakouts. I need the ends to be as small as possible, the end of at least two of the cable ends need to fit in 2" gaps infront of the sliding glass doors in our booth.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 6, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> The pertinent wording is the requirement for listed, extra hard usage cables.
> 
> Editorial from ST:
> 
> ...



I just checked and It's table 400.4 and type SO which is the type of the one I'm working on now, is listed as extra hard usage.


----------



## icewolf08 (May 6, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> Good news people, I talked to the director of the department today as we finalized the employment stuff and he said that within reason, I can get what I need to meet code, we have several thousand if need be.
> 
> Now, I need to know what options I have as far as meeting code for the ends of the cable. I know I can use Socapex connectors or some type of box. Any other options? I want to avoid using Socapex because of the complexitys in installing it and the high cost for each connector as well as the breakouts. I need the ends to be as small as possible, the end of at least two of the cable ends need to fit in 2" gaps infront of the sliding glass doors in our booth.



Really, in terms of price, it shouldn't be that much more expensive to install Socapex on the cable ends than any other solution, and that is by far the most compact solution. Yeah, it is a PITA to install, you really need two people, but it will be the safest and probably most useful.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 7, 2008)

Does anyone know where I can get Socapex connectors then(I'm in the Northeast US)? The only once I find for sale online are in Europe. 


icewolf08 said:


> Really, in terms of price, it shouldn't be that much more expensive to install Socapex on the cable ends than any other solution, and that is by far the most compact solution. Yeah, it is a PITA to install, you really need two people, but it will be the safest and probably most useful.



The reason I thought it would be more expensive is because I would need 2 Socapex connectors for the cable ends and 2 more for the breakouts. Specifically, I'm looking ar the 419AR model.


----------



## icewolf08 (May 7, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> Does anyone know where I can get Socapex connectors then?



Any theatre supplier should be able to get them for you. I would also recommend just buying pre-built break in/out's.

Call people like BMI, Production Advantage, or Barbizon if your local dealer can't get them for you or if you don't have a local dealer.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 7, 2008)

What kind of prices am I looking at? We normally deal with BMI although I prefer Production Advantage. Production Advantage is the only one that even lists any seperate connectors and all they have on their website is a panel mount female for $40. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out about what it is going to cost. If I can get them for about that cost, that would probable work out alright.


----------



## icewolf08 (May 7, 2008)

Dustincoc said:


> What kind of prices am I looking at? We normally deal with BMI although I prefer Production Advantage. Production Advantage is the only one that even lists any seperate connectors and all they have on their website is a panel mount female for $40. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out about what it is going to cost. If I can get them for about that cost, that would probable work out alright.



$40-$50 is probably the ballpark for the connectors, it will probably be around $100 for a pre-built break in/out. Now, you should pick up the phone and call Production Advantage or BMI. Production Advantage only just launched their online sales recently, and neither company has everything they carry or can get on their website. Plus, if you are going to be ordering a good number of connectors, you may get a price break, but you won't know unless you talk to a real person.

Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 7, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.



For most things, the individual department do the ordering. I don't think there is an actual purchasing department. 

I am trying to keep the school(as in anything above the department) out of it as much as possible. They tend to freak out about things a bit. We are having some major renovations in the next year and one of the engineers made a slight remark about the grating running the wrong way. We even called them and they couldn't remember saying anything about it to the school. Next thing we know, they close off the catwalks at 3pm on a Friday after we had hung all our lights up there but not focused them for a show the next weekend. The school offices have half days on fridays so it was next to impossible to get anyone and when we do, they can't tell us what is wrong with the catwalks. First they tell us its the grating, then they tell us it needs more weld points to the structure. The next week we found out it actually was the grating. We are told that it will be at least several weeks before they can get anyone in to look at or even fix them. The catwalks had been there for over 20 years we had 0 issues with them other than a maybe 1/4" flex in them. I wasn't taking the multicable issue out of the departmant before and I'm not now, I don't want the headache of dealing with the school any more than I have too. The school even charges the department for maintaining the school owned building we ocuppy. 

Don't go telling me that even though it lasted that long, it still was unsafe. I know thay it may have been slightly non-enginneering spec, but we were planning on having them torn out in the renovation and they are being left in know because of budget concerns(although we have an extra $400,000). 

This same architectural firm is giving our theatre big clear glass windows (with curtains) and a blonde wood procenium.


----------



## TimMiller (May 7, 2008)

I'd take the money for the stupid window and apply it to more pratical things. It would never be open and you would have a constant problem of light leaking through.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 7, 2008)

TimMiller said:


> I'd take the money for the stupid window and apply it to more pratical things. It would never be open and you would have a constant problem of light leaking through.



The window opening and windows are already in the building, they have just been covered with luan for eternity. They will probably just replace the windows. It seems like what one of the teachers did a couple of years ago. Ho took the luan off of the window in the prop-room(Backstage) to make it look less like an abondoned building and was going to hang curtains, never got around to it and then just painted the window black to stop light coming in.


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> $40-$50 is probably the ballpark for the connectors, it will probably be around $100 for a pre-built break in/out. Now, you should pick up the phone and call Production Advantage or BMI. Production Advantage only just launched their online sales recently, and neither company has everything they carry or can get on their website. Plus, if you are going to be ordering a good number of connectors, you may get a price break, but you won't know unless you talk to a real person.
> 
> Also, depending on how many connectors you need, and the approximate value of them it may be beneficial to have a chat with the purchasing department at your school and putting the order out for bid. Very often, when companies know that they are competing for your money they will give better prices.


Dustin, you also want crimp, not solder connectors, for a variety of reasons. ship has detailed some of them here. 

Also most find other brands easier to assemble than Amphenol/Socapex Brand. Here is the brand I would buy if it were me, as well as the PDF. Be aware that not all are created equal, and some of the knock-offs (generic Asian imports) are pure garbage. If you have a local friendly lighting house, you may be able to rent/borrow the crimping tools from them, especially if you purchase the connectors and breakouts from them.

So what are your plans for conductors #15 & 16?


----------



## Dustincoc (May 7, 2008)

For a 5 circuit cable, I would be using 15 wires, so I'd connect just clip off the 16th wire. Most of the multicable is 6 circuit so I'd wire it the way the instructions say. We don't really have a local supply house, we either order from New York(BMI) or Chicago(for muslin). How much do the crimping tools cost? Are the screw/crimp variety(the connections in 2p&G connectors) of connectors availeable?


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2008)

There is nothing wrong at all with using your 12/16 cable to provide 6 circuits and tieing #13 & 14 to pins 13-18. 

I know I recently posted this, but it must have been in another thread. 12/14 cable is actually more popular than 12/18 cable for use with Socapex-style connectors, which is why manufacturers sell these, 


to gang all the grounds together. (From this pdf.)

So tell your money people, you'll actually be gaining one circuit per multi at no extra cost. I suspect you'd be hard pressed to find someone who would make/see your break-ins/-outs with only 5 circuits. Also consider "staggered" as opposed to "even" break-outs. Much more handy in almost every case, and saves jumpers.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 7, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> There is nothing wrong at all with using your 12/16 cable to provide 6 circuits and tieing #13 & 14 to pins 13-18.
> 
> I know I recently posted this, but it must have been in another thread. 12/14 cable is actually more popular than 12/18 cable for use with Socapex-style connectors, which is why manufacturers sell these,
> 
> ...



Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.

If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.

Note that typical 12/14 6 circuit multicable like TMB Procable and others is 105 degrees C.


ST


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.
> 
> If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.
> 
> ...


And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we so much appreciate having Mr. Terry as a member. 

I can't wait to read the jacket on some 12/14 at work tomorrow. They'd have a cow if I started lopping of ends, claiming it non Code-Compliant!

Now, Steve, about the Martingale and Halogen Cycle...


----------



## Dustincoc (May 8, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> Err...careful here. If it is 60 degree C Type SO, I would not add that circuit.
> 
> If it's 90 degrees C, probably OK.
> 
> ...



How can you tell what type of SO cable it is?

I just got an e-mail back from Veam/BMI and that BMI has available are solder connectors.


derekleffew said:


> I can't wait to read the jacket on some 12/14 at work tomorrow. They'd have a cow if I started lopping of ends, claiming it non Code-Compliant!



I'd love to stop lopping end of non-complient cable, I just don't have any cable-cutters that will cut through the multi. It's the only cable that's even given my cable cutters a hard time.

How hard is it to make breakouts, since money is the main concern as well as safety, and my time is cheap, It would probably be more economical for me to make the breakouts. We already have tons of 12/3 cable as well as many, many loose stagepin connectors.


----------



## icewolf08 (May 9, 2008)

Making break ins/outs is a PITA. The other thing that you need to know if you are going to do it yourself is that the connectors for the ins/outs are different. They have a different strain relief that accommodates the multiple pieces of cable as opposed to the connectors that go on the multi which have a strain relief designed to accommodate the multi. So, you need to make sure that you order the proper connectors.


----------



## TimMiller (May 9, 2008)

Check out CBI and e-bay, there are several companies that give you really good deals on break outs. I wont make break outs but i'll solder soco connectors all day long. Also you need to be sure your ontop of your soldering skills when making soco connectors. you dont want a connection to fail on you.


----------



## Dustincoc (May 9, 2008)

Yeah, my soldering skills are a bit rusty, Last time I soldered was on the DMX cable that runs to our scroller power supply. The strain relief failed and the individual wires inside the connector had broken. Struck it, fixed it, and replaced it all while they were doing a runthrough of the show(Not as easy as it sounds, the cable runs out the front of the booth, over the F.O.H. Pipe, then over a catwalk, along a beam, and to the power supply at the other catwalk).


----------



## ship (May 11, 2008)

Not following this debate so much sorry. Got my standards and that of the other ME where I work have developed since the Soco standard came out and we are not parting with those until industry standard. Those that don’t tow the line with such standards we have had in effect for years don’t get our business. Those that learn from it educate themselves and are on the panel boards for the standards. Seems in topic a question in many ways on many topics of multi-cable. Yes crimp as long as AF-8 tool with turret head or at least 40w irons in use and proper training in doing so in either case. Way differences in those that do it properly and those that don’t. Expect that ESTA/NEC will be coming out with rules and training on this concept soon if my say goes anywhere in forming the standards.

This includes also the grounding ring standards as in above photo. Good and better than most as presented part but given pins that slightly move about also what attaches them to grounding ring get bent out of shape in conductance and or the concept of transfer or current... many grounding rings fail if not float about the connecter in being dangerous. UL listed gear or not it don’t stand up to actual use. Changes coming in ability or standards within to use 12/14 cable and it working for six circuit multi cable gear.

Given my role in hopefully new standards for doing such gear I cannot be too specific on what is my standard and what role it gets presented in. If wished for I can present my own standard as separate from future code concepts but cannot go otherwise too specific in whats wrong with any number of brands of plug or problems with all of them.

This other than I just went stainless steel for my plugs... worth the extra cost for such insert housings and this is a trend of stainless steel over aluminum parts of the plug. Still there is a balance betewen good connection and that which will become liquid electricity and or free floating grounding ring within the plug. Technology is still out there in end result of what will work and become the new standard.


----------

