# Paint and Equipment for UV effect?



## ptero (Sep 4, 2009)

We are planning to do a UV effect to bring out a spider web, painted/hidden in the stage floor treatment, at the end of the show. The Scenic Designer and Director are discussing what colors to use paint-wise and how to integrate in the general painted floor treatment. I am looking for the right lighting for this. Coverage would be about 18'-20' square on the stage floor, with units likely hung on the First Elec - Trim is 20'.

I have written off any use of the variety of flourescents that are out there. Between throw and overlap with general stage lighting, I assumed they would not be strong enough. I have used old Altman 250w units (from the 60's?) in the past with very little success. 

We are looking at 2 - Altman UV-705 Floods @ 400w. They appear similar to the long throw Wildfires, also 400w, w/o the dmx and other bells and whistles. Is that a fair statement?

Also suggested has been 2 - Martin MAC 300. The lamp is 250w. I don't see a dedicated UV filter here. Do they mix the desired 'color'? Or is it 'native' in the dichroics? How would it compare to the 400w guys above? 

Are we even in the neighborhood of looking at the right stuff?

Beyond the lighting, how do the paints available from Wildfire compare to Rosco's? The budget wants the more reasonable paint = Rosco. Hmmm.

After looking at Wildfire's literature, I don't know how much of their kool-aid to swallow! Not really knocking them... They provide tons of detail that others don't so it's just hard to compare.

Thanks in advance for any input. 

Reid


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## cdub260 (Sep 4, 2009)

ptero said:


> After looking at Wildfire's literature, I don't know how much of their kool-aid to swallow! Not really knocking them... They provide tons of detail that others don't so it's just hard to compare



Having used Wildfire paints and fixtures, I can say that they are a good option for you. They will absolutely give you the coverage you're looking for. I've used them at both short and long throw distances.

I'll post again tomorrow with specifics on the fixtures I've used.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 4, 2009)

The Wildfire paints in my experience have the highest level of fluorescent ability. You have three families of paint, the ones where the color is visible and the UV heightens the effect, the invisible CLEAR version which can be painted over something else, and the invisible white version which works over a white background

Again, just in my experience, the background is a key part of getting it to work well, I have worked with material, and white works best, the dark backgrounds respite what you would think make the effect less noticable. It is important to make sure that the background material does not have any native fluorescent ability, so a lot of cottons don't work well. Personally I have used a canvas that typically is used for upholstery or painting. For my projects I have mainly used the invisible white colors. I have a variety of fixtures, from the typical 4 foot BB ge t12 Fluoresent units to some Elatioin UV wash and also the Wildfire 250 Long throw units. Filters on movers doe NOT work well at all

It really comes down to managing the two light sources to bring up the effect. I have done designs where the uv light is covering the area all the time ( the Wildfire units need warm up time) and the standard lighting washes out the uv effect, so when I need the UV image, I just reduce the visible lighting that was washing out the UV

I had another project where to 50 foot walls were covered with a UV mural, and 10 4 foot fluorescent fixtures worked quite well

The colors you choose will influence your price dramatically, red is the most expensive and blue is the cheapest color. The clear paints have a much more limited palette. If you go to Wildfire's site you will see a drop down list for a lot of invisible CLEAR colors, but the only one available is the Blue (again in my experience) DR Bobs has typically been the least expensive source for wildfire, and allthingsthatglow for a more generic invisible white version.

Sharyn 




Sharyn


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## BrianWolfe (Sep 4, 2009)

We used Wildfire for Christmas Carol at Madison Square Garden and for Grace Jones' current tour and it was great stuff.


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## Van (Sep 4, 2009)

Search Search Search!, We've hit the UV fixture and paint thing about a hundred times. Make that 300. 
Grumble mumble .

That being said I'm a huge fan of the Invisible lines of paint . they have much more impact IMHO, when revealed.


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## ptero (Sep 4, 2009)

I did. Search Search Searched! by both title and post and not enough came up. Also looked at the glossary, wiki and collab articles. I found 2 fairly dedicated threads, plus some other references, but none really address what I am looking for. 
Grumble mumble.

From what I am picking up, I am leaning towards the Invisible paint as well. Thanks.

(mods: if this should have been a continuation of one of those threads, is it possible to merge?)


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## derekleffew (Sep 4, 2009)

ptero said:


> ...(mods: if this should have been a continuation of one of those threads, is it possible to merge?)


It IS possible to merge (and I do it often), but since you did your due diligence and searched first, and correctly found that no prior threads spoke directly to your situation, we'll leave things as they are.

Van (and others) may be overly sensitive to this issue as lately we've had a rash of new members posting questions we've answered ad nauseum, over and over, to the point of becoming redundant, again. 

We really should have a Collaborative Article on UV Effects, to consolidate the collective wisdom (?) into one place. Any volunteers?


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## Van (Sep 4, 2009)

derekleffew said:


> ....Van (and others) may be overly sensitive to this issue as lately we've had a rash of new members posting questions we've answered ad nauseum, over and over, to the point of becoming redundant, again.


 

and I'm in a pissy, "this is thursday of tech week" mood.
Sorry if I came off as short that was not my intention. 


derekleffew said:


> ...
> We really should have a Collaborative Article on UV Effects, to consolidate the collective wisdom (?) into one place. Any volunteers?


 
3 weeks 'till I get my life back.....


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## cdub260 (Sep 4, 2009)

Okay, here's my promised follow-up post.

The blacklight fixture that I would use for your application is the Wildfire LT-400. This is a long throw fixture. I have 12 in my permanent lighting inventory and have found them to be durable, reliable workhorses. They are heavy beasts and do require a minute or so of warm-up time before you get full light output from them, but they will be more than adequate for your needs. Really, your biggest challenge will be setting up the rest of your lights to minimize their impact on the blacklights.


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## ptero (Sep 4, 2009)

cdub260 said:


> Okay, here's my promised follow-up post.



Thank You. That confirms what I thought I was seeing. I have not found any in town, yet. to clarify: we're looking at rental for this. Locally, one choice for us is the Altman UV705 400w Flood. They appear to be basically a notch down in performance from the long throws.(?) 

We'll be doing a free test with a Martin MAC300 for possible rental. He says it'll do the job fine.  We have time to try it and see w/o committing - so we will...  For any of these I think we are looking at renting two units. Shipping can work if the solution is not local. Still looking for a cpl HT400's. 

The plan is that the web will 'appear' as we blackout at the end of the show. So we aren't looking to fight full stage lighting. It'll be about managing a slow fade down to let it appear, then see it solo as the final image. With multiple Q's, it'll likely time out across the last page or two of dialogue. 

We are considering the potential need to rig a physical dowser to kill the UV on cue and achieve a full BO.


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## derekleffew (Sep 4, 2009)

ptero said:


> ...We are considering the potential need to rig a physical dowser to kill the UV on cue and achieve a full BO.


Dousers can be rented from the same source as the UV fixtures, as most users don't want the UV onstage constantly. But for your application, you might be okay simply de-striking the lamps for the final cue.

An email to Wildfire should assist you in sourcing a rental vendor in your area.

For what it's worth, the Blue Man Group is a big user of UV lights (natch), and uses both Altman and Wildfire, I believe.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 5, 2009)

It really comes down to design. What I have found is that by using the HT 250's ( I have three of them) I can wash an area but still have the UV level low enough that the stage lighting can totally wash it out, so only when I bring down the stage lights will the UV be visible. You could then just turn on the uv lights a few minutes before you needed them. With the wildfire paint, multiple thin coats works best as you are really trying to place the maximum amount of fluorescent chemical on the surface. In addition, as you probably are aware using UV paint is an ADDITIVE process, so color mixing is such that for instance red and green produce yellow. You definitely will need to have the UV lights on when you paint the surface so you can see what you are doing. 

Sharyn


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## ErickAlexJames (Sep 9, 2009)

If you are looking for good PAINT to use - I have used (and love) clear neon paints. A bit expensive but only visible under UV lighting.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 9, 2009)

there are several alternative suppliers. when we tested the amount of visibility under UV light I do have to say that Wildfire was by far the brightest, but also the most expensive. 

Remember that you really need to either use Fluorescent BB lamps or something like wildfire or the UV wash the Screw in uv lamps that are sold cheaply don't work and the LED versions are not very good also

Sharyn


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