# What Do You Use To Tune the PA With?



## Eboy87 (Apr 11, 2008)

So, since the topic of EQ has come up quite a bit, and I'm also curious to see what others are using, what do you guys play to tune the PA?

Here's my list:
Bink's Audio Test CD which can be found here
Seven Bridges Road by The Eagles
A clip I did in Production 1
Finish The Fight off the Halo 3 Soundtrack
Vivaldi's The Four Seasons (The first track, Spring something or another)
One Sweet World by Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds
Bitchin' by The Donnas (Particularly useful in seeing how drums and bass sound)

That's in addition to talking into a mic to see if it translates well into actual live use.

Anyone else wanna play?


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## Raktor (Apr 12, 2008)

If I may ask, what tracks do you use specifically of Bink's?


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## Marius (Apr 12, 2008)

For overall quality I use the main theme from Star Wars, and for crankability I either use Enter Sandman of You Got Another Thing Coming.


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## Marius (Apr 12, 2008)

That Bink's Audio Test is sweet. Thanks for sharing that.


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## mixmaster (Apr 12, 2008)

depending on the show and the time available
Pink noise w/ RTA if there is time.
Life is a highway, from the Cars soundtrack for reasonable vocals or a CD from the Rockappela concert a while back if I need to be picky.
Toss the Feathers by the Corrs from the Forgiven, Not Forgotten. It's got some killer drum tracks.
There was a track on my Sonia Dada CD that had some awesome piano stuff, can't remember witch one right now.
Several Boston songs have good rhythm sections.
Finally, Any other disc I can find that is similar music to the show. It does no good to tune the system with a hard rock CD if you are doing a Jazz Concert.


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## BNBSound (Apr 13, 2008)

Something appropriate from the iPod that matches the program material. I listen on the cans and then through the system and tweak FOH as needed. If it's real bad I'll fire up the pink noise and have a look at the RTA, but never touch the auto EQ.


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## lieperjp (Apr 13, 2008)

Speaking of EQ - anyone know of a good EQ system? Looking for an auto-eq setup that can send to mains and sub woofer. Price range probably $250-500, cheaper is better.


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## audioslavematt (Apr 13, 2008)

Depends entirely on the show. 
Theatre and any situations where perfect tonality is important: Theme from Apollo 13.
3 piece band: Rush, Chevelle, RHCP, Godsmack, Dependant on situation
4+ piece bands: Pink Floyd, Eagles, Atreyu, Metallica
Battle of the cookie monsters: Slayer, or some other ridiculous thrash metal
Like many things audio, it depends. 

lieperjp said:


> Speaking of EQ - anyone know of a good EQ system? Looking for an auto-eq setup that can send to mains and sub woofer. Price range probably $250-500, cheaper is better.


1. Auto-EQ sucks. It cannot think like a human, therefore uses no logic in its tuning. It's very obvious when listening in a bad room that a processor's auto-EQ was used. Although I have not heard one in use, I suspect the Sabine units may do a better job than others, if they actually have auto-EQ. Most units outside that price point do not have this feature because professionals wouldn't use it because it does such a poor job.
2. All you'll find in that price range is Behringer, and maybe a few used Driverack PAs and 260s.


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## lieperjp (Apr 13, 2008)

audioslavematt said:


> 2. All you'll find in that price range is Behringer, and maybe a few used Driverack PAs and 260s.



That's what I thought... oh well. I'll have to try to get more money...


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## Andy_Leviss (Apr 13, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> That's what I thought... oh well. I'll have to try to get more money...



You missed the point of the first part of Matt's post. DON'T waste your money. Learn to EQ, don't rely on a machine to do it. There is no such thing as a good auto-EQ system, at any price point, IMHO. Even using advanced measurement tools like SIM or Smaart or SpectraFoo, a human always needs to be interpreting those results and making decisions based on them.

--A


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## Eboy87 (Apr 13, 2008)

Well said Andy. 

Lieperjp, I've compared the auto-EQ in a DRPA do one that I've done, and there is no comparison. The auto-EQ made so many wild boost and cuts that GBF was nil. And as far as SMAART goes, too many people don't know how to use that program, and royally screw the pooch with their EQ's because "the graph said it's flat." 

Save your money and buy a good EQ. You don't need auto-EQ, but those more expensive ones are more accurate with the filters they do have, and sound better. Auto-EQ should never have been invented.


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## howlingwolf487 (Apr 15, 2008)

Walking in Memphis - Marc Cohn
Ghost Train - Marc Cohn
Alone - Catherine Tuttle
Stand - Denver & The Mile High Orchestra
Opening Mandelbrot - Blue Man Group
Jump - Van Halen
Bring Me Down - Pillar
Piano Solo, Stereo - Bink's Audio CD
Pink Noise, 1kHz 0dB, Log Sweep, Sub Sweep - Bink's Audio CD/Website

For speech reinforcement, I'd like to find A Christmas Carol as read by Patrick Stewart.

Extras: The Load-out+Stay - Jackson Browne (for strike, etc.)


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## avkid (Apr 15, 2008)

howlingwolf487 said:


> Walking in Memphis - Marc Cohn


There's just something about that song that I love.


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## howlingwolf487 (Apr 15, 2008)

avkid said:


> There's just something about that song that I love.



It's a very well-mixed song that's nicely balanced a great array of vocals and instruments. My boss uses it (has been for many years) and it has kind of trickled down to the rest of us noiseboys on his crew. The other songs span the gamut of musical genre and instrumental assortment. I could use some rap and country, I guess, but these have done me well so far.

I'll be out on a small weekend tour with my university this weekend, so these'll get used a lot.


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## museav (Apr 15, 2008)

Just like everything else, it depends. For installed systems lots of time with Smaart and/or EASERA SysTune to start. Then various sweeps, noise and tones. Finally, whatever source material matches the use. I'm a little old school so often things like Flim and the BBs, Tangerine Dream, Diana Krall, Strength in Numbers, Bela Feck & The Flecktones and The Rippingtons. One night type systems might get little if any analysis and right to listening.

One critical part of learning to EQ properly that hasn't been mentioned is learning what you can't EQ. The effects of room modes, multiple source interaction, boundary cancellations, surface reflections and so forth can't be compensated with EQ. You can spend all day trying to get rid of a null or peak from combfiltering with an EQ and it won't fix it, the most you can do is maybe reduce the effects. This is one of the problems with many basic auto-EQ systems, they don't know what they can't fix and keep trying.

It may also help to look at EQ as one part of a much more comprehensive system tuning. From time alignment (which it really isn't) to crossovers to gain structure and levels, there can be a lot of other system tuning aspects that affect a system's frequency response. It's always fun to see someone with a graphic EQ and all the low frequency faders up when you ask them why they didn't just turn up the sub amp or turn down the other amps instead. For me, adjusting relative levels using the amp attenuators are often the first step in EQing a bi/tri/quad-amped system.


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## lieperjp (Apr 15, 2008)

Andy_Leviss said:


> You missed the point of the first part of Matt's post. DON'T waste your money. Learn to EQ, don't rely on a machine to do it. There is no such thing as a good auto-EQ system, at any price point, IMHO. Even using advanced measurement tools like SIM or Smaart or SpectraFoo, a human always needs to be interpreting those results and making decisions based on them.
> --A



I know - I want a good EQ that can be manually adjusted... The current EQ just doesn't work well (it is auto) but for some reason the tech head doesn't want to change - I think he's afraid of people messing with it... but we can get a rack with a lock on it...


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## museav (Apr 16, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> I know - I want a good EQ that can be manually adjusted... The current EQ just doesn't work well (it is auto) but for some reason the tech head doesn't want to change - I think he's afraid of people messing with it... but we can get a rack with a lock on it...


What is it? I don't think that I know of any EQs that have no ability to be manually controlled from either front panels controls or a connected computer. There are security covers for where you want to limit access to rack mounted equipment.


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## TimmyP1955 (Apr 19, 2008)

avkid said:


> There's just something about that song that I love.



It is a fine song, but the fidelity of the entire album is quite poor.


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## MNicolai (Apr 20, 2008)

First of all, many thanks for the link to Bink's Audio Test CD.

What I tune with depends on the show; if the only sound is SFX, then I'll use one of the SFX tracks. If it's mostly a specific genre or group, then I'll use that. If it's broader than that, these are tracks I use quite a bit...

If it's bolded, it's because that track is nothing but excellent for calibrating a system.

Colin Hay - Overkill [Studio acoustic version] 
(This track is nice and dry, if you want to measure reverb on vocals this is a great track to do it on)

Keaton Simons - Everything 
(Good for testing punchability of the subs, high-end clarity/intelligiblity)

Ben Folds - Rockin' The Suburbs
Ben Folds - Heist
*Gwen Stefani - The Sweet Escape*
Red Hot Chili Peppers - Fortune Faded
Sting - Desert Rose
(These tracks cover a wide range on the spectrum, plus they are really clean tracks to test intelligibility with)

*The Cardigans ft. Tom Jones - Burning Down The House*
Semisonic - Who's Stopping You
Supertramp - It's Raining Again
Linkin Park - Bleed It Out
(Test intelligibility, high-mids, highs, but with low punches also)

Slagsmålsklubben - Smart Drag Mr. Christer
Slagsmålsklubben - Kom Igen Kommisarien
*Slagsmålsklubben - Övningsköra*
Slagsmålsklubben - Kasten Sten
(Test tone reproduction, full-spectrum punchability)

Fuel - Shimmer
Supertramp - Dreamer
*Supertramp - Lady*
Supertramp - Another Man's Woman (live)
Chris Cornell - Wave Goodbye
(General)
*
Kamelot - When the Lights Are Down*
Kamelot - The Black Halo
*Goo Goo Dolls - Big Machine
Creed - What If
*(Crankability, full-spectrum tests, but with emphasis on lows and highs)

*Kamelot - March of Mephisto*
Metallica - Enter Sandman
*Frou Frou - Close Up
Black Eyed Peas - Pump It
*(Crankability, full spectrum with emphasis on high-end voice intelligibility/clairity)

*Kamelot - Helena's Theme*
Dave Matthews - The Best of What's Around
Creed - Stand Here With Me
(Surround-soundedness, full-spectrum)


Dave Matthews Band - What Would You Say
*Duran Duran - Notorious
Ocean's Twelve OST - 7.29.04 The Day Of
*(Surround-soundedness, high-mids, highs)



Now of course I don't use all of them, but I use them when I need them. So long as I have those with me I'm never at lack for good calibration material to combat whatever situations I may need to work in, solve, or be prepared for.


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## museav (Apr 20, 2008)

My situation may be different than most but there can be two different aspects to tuning a house system and it might help to identify which aspect is being addressed.

The first aspect is tuning a system in general. This often goes well beyond just EQ and includes delays, crossovers, filters, limiting, etc. and is usually done to get a fairly neutral response from the system, although in some cases there may be multiple presets specific to certain types of applications. The point of this tuning is to get a flat or neutral baseline response from the system. Along with analysis (Smaart, EASERA SysTune, Praxis, etc.), you may listen with a wide range of materials, reflecting the wide range of uses the system might see. I always try to have some good examples of male and female vocals, acoustic/electric/synth bass, drums, horns, acoustic guitar, piano, etc. I personally try to avoid heavily compressed or processed pieces here as I want to hear the system and not the processing on the media. In my systems this baseline system tuning is something that is done once and not usually touched unless there are changes to the room or system. Since it includes many adjustments that could potentially readily negatively impact or damage the system, I try to make this system processing inaccessible to the typical user. It's a DSP that is locked out to most, if not all, users. 

The second part of system tuning is that for a particular event. This is much more subjective and usually reflects content representative of the event. This I address with separate, dedicated EQ at FOH either in the console or as a standalone EQ. This is also the EQ many people are referring to.

This approach is not limited to installed, house systems. There are many pros with portable or touring rigs that have a fixed processing element for the system tuning aspects that can be addressed in advance such as box and array processing and then FOH processing to adjust for each venue and event.

Of course, tuning monitors is a whole separate issue and has to be done not only per event but likely even per act.


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## Dillon (Apr 21, 2008)

One album does it all for me. Tower of Power -- "Soul Vaccination: Live"


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## Schniapereli (Apr 24, 2008)

I usually use movie soundtracks, or a group called X-Ray Dog which writes the music used in movie trailers.

I use those songs because I like them, but mostly because I have heard them in a nice theatre, and know what they generally should sound like.


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## The_Guest (May 6, 2008)

I usually like to do a series of music from different genres and varying ranges of production quality.

I'm not too crazy about Dave Matthew's Band, but I will admit it's always very full and well engineered. It's perfect for tuning a room because it has heavy drums and so many extra instruments. I always consider it a goal to achieve clarity through the songs by controlling and tightening up the heavy drums and bass. When you can hear Dave Matthew's acoustic guitar and the violin cut through clearly, you know you've be able to control the bass and drums. 

As there are barely any short-term and inexpensive solutions to dealing with a room's acoustics, controlling the bass and drum's habit of sticking around longer than wanted is where most of your efforts will go to when tuning the system. It's always very tempting to maximize bass response when tuning and optimizing a system for a room. It's important to always acknowledge the aggregate mix as your main priority. It drives me nuts when I listen to someone tune a room for drums and only drums. Sure it sounds cool to have big powerful drum sounds, but what about everything else? Maximizing low end destroys the main goal of an intelligible mix.

A great song to test if you've managed to control and tighten your low end is "Gold Digger" by Kayne West. It's sampling of Jamie Fox covering/interpolating Ray Charles' "I've Got A Women" from the movie 'Ray'. Right after the introduction there is this very loud bass drum that plays straight sixteenth notes for one measure. If you can hear the first chorus clear after that, you've tuned your room nicely.

I like radiohead for controlling echo when tuning mids and highs because they often have this ambient keyboards, guitars, and samples in their songs. "Airbag" from OK Computer is always very good for this.

I like Sigur Ros (ambient, modern classical, post rock) to get a listen to the aspects of the system that don't get as much attention because percussion and bass often upstage these areas. Sigur Ros has very minimal and simple percussion, if any. But it can be very bass heavy (legato/long notes) and gives you a good understanding how and if the low end blends with the rest of the mix. This is very important in theater/choir/classical environments. Many woudl say, "Why not just play choral or classical music?" I've been a fan of doing this because the music is recorded in a such a way that is dramatically different than what it is like live (you can't crank the gain on fancy boutique condensers like you can in the studio).

This test is in no way critical, but I'll do it sometimes when I have time. Pick an old lo-fi mix and try to liven it up as much as possible. This is another great test for theater/choir/classical environments because you're often very limited by how much you can capture. It's an everyday occurrence to not have the time and money to mic everything individually as opposed to mic'ing as an ensemble. The Pet Sounds album from the Beach Boys is a personal favorite. I always find it a nice challenge to get a song like "God Only Knows" to rock a room as much as possible. Deerhoof, Jimi Hendrix, Django Rheinhardt, etc come to mind as good examples.

And finally, to see if the room is fun (can make people dance) and is enjoyable I'll pick something funky or dance-able such has LCD Soundsystem, Talking Heads, Stereolab, Matthew Dear/Audion, James Brown, Stevie Wonder, etc.


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## herr_highbrau (May 14, 2008)

Sting. Fields of Gold.

I never used to use it, but nearly every pro system I've seen set up has been done to Fields of Gold (and the Canford test CD) - and I've seen some very pro systems! If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.

Otherwise, I use a mixture of Richard Burton's Eve of the War speech (from Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of War of the Worlds), Jools Holland's "River Boogie", and Kraftwerk's Pocket Calculator. All invariably followed by something appropriate for the event.

Regarding auto EQs - . Learn to use your ears! This is a great little program - Simple Feedback Trainer. It's also impressive (and useful) being able to name the frequency that's causing problems .


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## Eboy87 (May 14, 2008)

SFT! I highly recommend it too. You'll have to learn these frequencies eventually if you guys want to go far in this business. Every show I've been on, the guys call out the frequencies they want cut, and sometimes ask you for your input. Learn the frequencies so you don't look like an idiot with your foot in your mouth.


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## deadlygopher (Aug 4, 2008)

I use some classical and some of what will be played through the system, but I love using Zimbabwean mbira music. It covers every frequency range, and it's easy to test intelligibility everywhere.


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## Hughesie (Aug 4, 2008)

Few of my favorites

Money For Nothing- Dire Straits
Miami Airport- Casino Royale Soundtrack

want to clear a house?
Dancing Lasha Tumbi-Verka Serduchka
Gop Gop- Verka Serduchka

ehehehe


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## The_Guest (Aug 9, 2008)

deadlygopher said:


> I use some classical and some of what will be played through the system, but I love using Zimbabwean mbira music. It covers every frequency range, and it's easy to test intelligibility everywhere.



Do we have a Feli Kuti fan here? Mbira/Kalimba/Thumb Pianos are awesome! A friend of mine is in a sweet Afrobeat (myspace.com/nomomusic) band that uses them. I've never thought to use afrobeat music to tune a room before. I'll have to try that.


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