# Fly system revamp



## DuckJordan (Jan 13, 2010)

We have a fly system 24 Ropes with 4 electrics; 2 travelers; 1 main and one middle black; and 2 leg setups. The school is 20 years old the last time the fly system was inspected/maintained was 20 years ago. It's a hemp rope system using the standard carriages. The play on the ropes isn't bad maybe 10" of free movement if that (never took a tape measure to the rope to find out the play). 

Is it normal for fly systems to be used for 20 years and not be inspected other than maybe a glance? Also, Is it necessarily a bad thing to use hemp as I have noticed other schools in the area starting to use nylon instead?


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## Footer (Jan 14, 2010)

There are plenty of places that have fly systems much older that have not been inspected. That does not mean they are in the clear. 

You should have detailed inspections every 5 years or if something looks/sounds wrong. You should have a a walk through inspection every year. 

Hemp is a natural fiber. Because of that, humidity affects it. Ropes can tighten and loosen depending on the humidity in the air. This is one of the reasons the floor block "floats". They also weaken as time passes. I doubt your ropes are going to snap tomorrow, but they do not have the same capacity they did when installed. Added to that, the older they are, the harder they are to operate. 

I would suggest getting an inspector in there ASAP to take a look at the system. He/She will probably tell you to replace your control lines. Everything else should be just fine. Wire rope can last 30 years plus if it is cared for. 

Do a search for rigging inspection and you should find some good solutions.


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## venuetech (Jan 14, 2010)

I suspect you have a counterweight system with "manila" purchase lines (sometimes incorrectly called hemp)
a "hemp" system is a different animal. 
even thirty years ago it would have been a very rare thing for a new install of 24 linesets with electrics. 

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/glossary-m-s/13008-pinrail.html

in the glossary photo on th right is a pinrail typical of a "hemp" system
on the left is a lockrail typical of a counterweight system

which one compairs to your rail?

the lines on the right appear to be spot lines each going out to a single pickup point.
to fly a batten with hemp you would have 4-6 lines at a single pin plus a clew/trimclamp with a sandbag to balance the load. 

I replaced the manila lines in my system with Poly-Dac. You would likely consult with your rigging contractor/vendor to find a suitable replacement for your manila lines. due to stretch, nylon would not be a good choice.


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## Footer (Jan 14, 2010)

Manila and hemp rope are usually called the same thing in the theatre world. Manilla rope is made from the abaca plant. 




It is being replaced with either Multiline II or Stage Set X. 

I have worked in one house that was built in the last 15 years that has a true Hemp flysystem. I doubt our OP has a hemp flystem, instead he has hemp control lines.


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## derekleffew (Jan 14, 2010)

Footer said:


> ... instead he has hemp *control* lines.



More commonly called purchase lines.


From Fly system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :

> Graphic depiction of a single lineset and the parts of a counterweight system. (A) Hoisting cables, (B) Turnbuckles, (C) Purchase line, (D) Arbor rod, (E) Spreader plates, (F) Cut steel counterweight, (G) Rope stop/lock (brake)/Lock rail, (H) Locking safety ring, (I) Tension sheave (block). Not shown: head sheave, loft sheaves, and batten.


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## venuetech (Jan 14, 2010)

my old high school aud (built 1964) had a half and half system
the main/travelers and electrics and lighting bridge were all wire guide counterweight
all other battens were hemp 
we had sand boxes on the load plate so we could load the bags up.

I would think that hemp hung electric and travelers would not be very easy to work with.

picking manila splinters out of my hands was a regular chore back then.

Hemp fiber I believe would not splinter off like that, but i have never had occasion to use it as an operating line


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## DuckJordan (Jan 14, 2010)

then yes they are the locking system our play production teacher always refered to them as hemp flys and they are hemp rope also this is the driest part of the year in sd so should the ropes be longer or shorter?


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## Van (Jan 14, 2010)

Drier = longer. In Humid climates Natural rope fibers tend to absorb moisture causing the fibers to swell, thus tightening up. 
In response to your OP; Unfortunetly it is all too normal for a facility to go 20 years with next to no maintenance. It is not, however a good thing. If you can locate teh Original installer you should have them come out and inspect it. If not, find the best contractor in your area. You'd be amazed at the little things that cn happen to a system over the years that yo umight never notice until it's too late.


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## DuckJordan (Jan 14, 2010)

well there are several lines that there is something wrong with them as far as what is wrong with them we don't know so we have them completely locked and are now considered "dead Hung" although its all jerry rigged and seeing as how they failed to even consider fixing our fire curtain issue i doubt they will spend the money to get a contractor to come out and look at the system. I will bring it up with them that it should be looked at immediatly but like everything in theater the chance of it getting it done is like doing a show without the set taking some blood.


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## MNicolai (Jan 14, 2010)

Don't be too forceful or they'll write you off as another student. Just raise the fact that you have spoken to professionals who consider it to be a concern of safety and that a poorly-maintained rigging system makes the theatre the most dangerous area in the entire school.

It'll be different from rigger to rigger, but we just had an ETCP-certified rigger inspect our entire install for just $450. Even a moderately-sized school district can fork that over for the seriousness of issue. Our rigger is going to provide us an itemized list by order of seriousness on every single thing he'd change, why he'd change those things, and how much each alteration would cost.

The unfortunate truth is that this is what school districts are afraid of. Once they have that report in hand, they can no longer play stupid if something were to happen. Also, if anything serious is found to need repair, that _will_ cost potentially tens of thousands of dollars. (Don't tell them that ahead of time; just emphasize that in the opinion of professionals you have spoken to describing the situation, there should be an inspection because it's a high possibility that someone could get hurt otherwise.)


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## DuckJordan (Jan 15, 2010)

i will do so, also just a side note, our district would much rather shut our auditorium down than spend more than $1000 on our stuff. so hopefully when i explain to them the importance of this issue they will listen, if not i guess i'll do a fund raiser with the other techs and actors to get enough to at least get it inspected.


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## MPowers (Jan 15, 2010)

All theatre rigging systems should be inspected regularly. At least every 5 years for low use systems and yearly for systems with high usage. It sounds as if your system is long overdue. This can be a major safety issue, please try to have this looked into at once. I will be happy to reccommend several firms that do inspections, including of course us/me/CLE, and write or call anyone in charge of your facility to help get this done. Regardless of who performs the work, it is important to have it done. At the risk of posting an ad, CLE - Central Lighting & Equipment - does rigging inspections, as well as design, engineer, sell and install. For more info contact me off list [email protected] or check out our web site Central Lighting & Equipment.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa


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## MNicolai (Jan 15, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> i will do so, also just a side note, our district would much rather shut our auditorium down than spend more than $1000 on our stuff. so hopefully when i explain to them the importance of this issue they will listen, if not i guess i'll do a fund raiser with the other techs and actors to get enough to at least get it inspected.



A lot of people that think that about their school districts. I hear that claim time and time again. It's rarely true, though. I thought that was the case at the high school I went to until I made friends with the principal and administrative staff. As it turns out, none of them really knew how to address the needs of a performance space -- they were hired as educators, not technical directors. Not only did they not know _how_ to address the problems, but they didn't even know there were problems, or if they did know, nobody really knew whose responsibility it was. Chances are your principal hasn't been making your performance space terrible, they've just left it the way it was because that's probably not far from the condition it was when they were hired.

The first thing you should do is find an administrative staff member who will listen to you. They don't need to agree with you, they just need to listen to you. Then you'll need to work your way up to the food chain to find the person most responsible for the performance space. When I say "most responsible," that might be synonymous with, "doesn't know it's part of their job description." A good possibility is that the person you're looking for may not even been at that school, they may be a district-wide administrator. In the case of the school district I graduated from and continue to work in, this is the Buildings and Grounds Supervisor.

When I was in a similar situation as you are, I didn't start with _him_. I started with the high school principal (as in, scheduled a meeting with his secretary and did it the formal way), then he listened to me and we came to agree on some points. After that, we met again, and again, and then eventually him and I were on the same page, so we worked together to work our way up the administrative food chain, where we ended up working out details on renovations with the Building and Grounds Supervisor, and then the three of us sat down with the Superintendent and her assistant to lay out our play, the expenses, and then work out an eventual budget.

That all started at a January meeting with the principal (who admitted he never fully understood whether or not it was his job to take care of that performance space) and before July 1st the entire project had been funded with over $65k that was allocated to effectively rip out all of the existing equipment (even down to the seating and carpeting) and start over from scratch. By November, all projects for that space were completed.

Don't walk into the situation thinking the people you're talking to hate everything you're suggesting or at the very least don't care at all. You'll tend to come across as more arrogant and offensive, and if they feel you're making personal attacks on them they'll end your conversation before you even hit your main points.


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