# ADA Requirements



## peacefulone61 (Nov 22, 2010)

I was wondering if There are concert guidelines set forth by the ADA for the amount of seats and other accessibility of a theater. I looked on the websites but did not find anything of substance.


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## Edrick (Nov 22, 2010)

There is indeed to what extent I do not know. But for example our venue was required to have x amount of handicap accessible seating for x amount of seats.


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## Sony (Nov 22, 2010)

peacefulone61 said:


> I was wondering if There are concert guidelines set forth by the ADA for the amount of seats and other accessibility of a theater. I looked on the websites but did not find anything of substance.


 
Yes...there are MANY regulations, and unfortunately I do not know all of them. The few I do know are you have to have a certain number of handicap accessible seats depending on how many seats you have total. If you are in a public building your seating rake can only rise 1 foot for every 20 feet of travel. I cannot remember much else, but if you contact the ADA directly I'm sure they will get you the information you need.


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## museav (Nov 23, 2010)

Your question actually seems to possibly address two different aspects. ADA addresses accessibility for those with disabilities and indeed does specify things like maximum slopes and require clearances for accessible areas, the number of handicapped and companion seats, handicap parking spots, accessible restroom facilities, etc. For example, a corridor or hallway for ADA access has to provide certain clearances, can't have obstructions below a certain height, must have specific clearances at any doorway or landing, cannot exceed a certain slope, etc. That is in addition to any seating and access requirements required by other building codes that are addressing architectural, structural, life safety and other building requirements.

Because of this duality, the ADA, which is under the Department of Justice, may offer interpretations of the ADA requirements however they will not provide design direction as there is the possibility of other code requirements or conditions supplanting or preventing compliance with ADA. There are individuals and firms who specialize in ADA compliance and on some larger projects I've been involved in the Architect will decide to include such people on their design team.

There are some situations where there is actually an ADA compliance inspection but those relate primarily to Federal government, and especially DoJ, facilities. I got involved in one new County courthouse that included courtrooms that fell under the purview of the Department of Justice where the DoJ ADA review was so bad that they forbid using the courtrooms until the brand new building and rooms could be rebuilt to be ADA compliant (I was part of the team brought in to address what that would require). Talk about some upset county taxpayers!

Theatres can get very interesting in interpretations of handicap accessibility as it extends beyond the patrons to the staff and volunteers. For example, if you may have someone come on stage from the audience then there needs to be an accessible path that allows that. And it can be even more of a challenge for public facilities as you start getting into what technical or operational roles are acceptable to not be accessible. It makes sense to not try to make catwalks accessible but what about booths and FOH? Do you deny a handicapped person all opportunity to be involved in activities they could easily handle if accessible?


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## jwl868 (Nov 23, 2010)

The ADA regulations appear to be here:
2010 ADA STANDARDS FOR ACCESSIBLE DESIGN
2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design

There are links for two sets of documents:
2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design
and
Guidance on the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design (HTML)

The former appears to be the regulations, and the latter appears to be commentary on the regulations.

Click on the former, then scroll down to:
2010 STANDARDS FOR TITLES II AND III FACILITIES: 2004 ADAAG, and then there is an internal link for:

221 Assembly Areas

This should get you started, but as with any set of regulations, if you read a particular section, read any cross-referenced sections, and also find the “definitions” section. 

Joe


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## peacefulone61 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thank you all for the Great information. There is enough here that i can now get the school to at least open a discussion about accessibility.


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## BillESC (Nov 30, 2010)

Did you know it's the law to have an ALS system in working order for most places of public entertainment?


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## erosing (Nov 30, 2010)

BillESC said:


> Did you know it's the law to have an ALS system in working order for most places of public entertainment?


 
To make it even more fun, what are the exceptions?

One of the venues I work at is an exception, would anyone like to take a guess at them?


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## peacefulone61 (Nov 30, 2010)

Arez said:


> To make it even more fun, what are the exceptions?
> 
> One of the venues I work at is an exception, would anyone like to take a guess at them?


 
I would be interested in knowing


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## peacefulone61 (Nov 30, 2010)

I will add that to my list. Thank you for the heads up about the ALS system.


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## lighthouse (Nov 30, 2010)

Arez said:


> To make it even more fun, what are the exceptions?
> 
> One of the venues I work at is an exception, would anyone like to take a guess at them?


 
With no sound reinforcement of any kind it's kinda hard to have an effective ALS system...


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## museav (Nov 30, 2010)

lighthouse said:


> With no sound reinforcement of any kind it's kinda hard to have an effective ALS system...


Nope, that is actually not an exception.

ALS is also not limited to entertainment areas, it tied to Assembly Areas which are defined as "A room or space accommodating a group of individuals for recreational, educational, political, social, civic, or amusement purposes, or for the consumption of food and drink." So it also applies to classrooms, meeting rooms, bars or restaurants with stages, etc. More specifically, ALS "applies to assembly areas where audible communications are integral to the use of the space", for which there are two categories defined; rooms that have to have permanently installed ALS systems (rooms that seat more than 50 people or have installed audio systems and that also have fixed seating) and all other rooms that can have permanently installed ALS systems or provisions for temporary/portable systems.

Here's a handy ADA checklist for Assembly Areas, SURVEY FORM 15: ASSEMBLY AREAS. I would not assume that this covers everything but it is useful to get an idea of what ADA compliance may involve for Assembly Areas.


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## BillESC (Dec 2, 2010)

Brad,

Thanks for the detailed answer, I don't like to type that much. 

Did we once do a live internet chat on gear?


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## museav (Dec 3, 2010)

BillESC said:


> Did we once do a live internet chat on gear?


I don't recall that, but it wouldn't be the first thing I forgot!


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## rmartin (Dec 3, 2010)

We are not subject to ADA requirements in Canada, but we do have similar codes when it comes to public access like Theaters. On a related matter our facility is thinking of purchasing an ALS system. Sennheiser was recommended but I would rather hear from the teck's who have the systems rather than a sales pitch from a manufacture rep.
We had a demo a few years ago with an IR system, but did not like it.
Anyone out there have a system to brag about?


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## sk8rsdad (Dec 3, 2010)

My venue acquired a Phonic Ear FM system via the Canadian Hearing Society in 2006. It's been working fine through the past 4 seasons for our venue. It is piggybacked on our existing audio feed for the backstage areas. The sound source is a Sennheiser ME66 shotgun microphone mounted below our FOH lighting catwalk. 

The audience seems to like it and the Front of House staff don't have any issues with signing out and getting back headsets.

I suggest you find a similar organization in B.C. and invite them to make a recommendation. The right system for my venue may not be the right system for yours.


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## sk8rsdad (Dec 3, 2010)

I have held off posting in this thread because I am not familiar with the ADA, living in Ontario is my excuse. Since the ice has been broken here's my $.019 USD ($.02 CAD)

My venue did some renovations in 2001. When we were scoping the project were asked to provide some improvements for people who had some combination of visual, auditory, and mobility impairment. Our wheelchair locations are at the back of the house (less than 60 ft from the stage). The request was to bring them closer to the stage. 

If memory serves, the standards at the time called for a 20 foot turning radius for motorized scooters, which would have meant the loss of about 100 seats, or a third of the house. We could not afford to lose a third of our revenue. The ramps required to reach that location would have consumed the entire lobby extension we were planning.

The moral of the story, if there is one, is: should you be considering renovations to an existing space, consult an architect who is knowledgeable on building codes and applicable statutes for public spaces: Here there be dragons!


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## museav (Dec 3, 2010)

rmartin said:


> We are not subject to ADA requirements in Canada, but we do have similar codes when it comes to public access like Theaters. On a related matter our facility is thinking of purchasing an ALS system. Sennheiser was recommended but I would rather hear from the teck's who have the systems rather than a sales pitch from a manufacture rep.
> We had a demo a few years ago with an IR system, but did not like it.
> Anyone out there have a system to brag about?


For RF systems my first choice is usually Listen Technologies, however Williams Sound, Phonic Ear, Comtek and Sennheiser are also common names for RF systems. For IR system Listen Technologies, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Danish Interpretation System (DIS), Williams Sound and Bosch are common products. There are also induction loop systems from companies like Oval Window and Ampetronic.

Each approach has pros and cons. RF systems are generally the simplest and least expensive option. They are not limited to line of sight, which can be both an advantage and a disadvantage as some tours and other groups may not like the idea of anyone with a compatible receiver being able to 'listen in' on a show. This is also a major issue for courtrooms that generally don't want people outside the room to be able to eavesdrop so easily. RF systems also require dedicated receivers, although neckloops can be used with the receivers to support hearing aid T-coils.

IR systems take a bit more planning and require line of sight from the receivers to the transmitter (or emitters). Because of this, they are often blocked from transmitting outside the main house, which may be a benefit. Like RF system, IR systems require dedicated receivers.

Induction Loop or IL system used a wire loop or grid that can be picked up directly by hearing aids with T-coils or by dedicated receivers. These systems also require a bit of planning and design and although fairly easy to incorporate in new construction or major renovations, they can be more of a challenge to add to some existing spaces.

Another consideration with ALS systems is whether they will be used only for direct Assistive Listening or whether the same systems may also be used for language interpretation or multilingual presentations. A multi-channel RF or IR system could be used to provide ALS on one channel and interpretation or alternative languages on other channels with either receivers dedicated for each purpose or tunable receivers that can be preset or user tuned for different audio channels.


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## peacefulone61 (Jan 3, 2011)

thank you for the pointers on the ALS systems.


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## JimN (Jan 4, 2011)

Most ADA requirements are driven by the building code in your state.
The Federal guidelines and standards are exactly that-guidelines and a standard.
That standard needs to be referenced by law to be enforceable.

MA is one state that comes to mind as being more stringent than the IBC when it comes to ADA--check with your state building inspectors for the current code and code requirements.


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## jwl868 (Jan 4, 2011)

Can you clarify that? The introduction to the Standards (below) would indicate otherwise:

"Introduction 
The Department of Justice published revised regulations for Titles II and III of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 “ADA” in the Federal Register on September 15, 2010. These regulations adopted revised, enforceable accessibility standards called the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design “2010 Standards” or “Standards”. The 2010 Standards set minimum requirements – both scoping and technical -- for newly designed and constructed or altered State and local government facilities, public accommodations, and commercial facilities to be readily accessible to and usable by individuals with disabilities.

Adoption of the 2010 Standards also establishes a revised reference point for Title II entities that choose to make structural changes to existing facilities to meet their program accessibility requirements; and it establishes a similar reference for Title III entities undertaking readily achievable barrier removal."

Joe


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## museav (Jan 4, 2011)

As I understand it, the ADA is Federal law. To better define and enforce that law, the Department of Justice has developed Standards, which have legal authority, and Guidelines such as the ADA Accessibility Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities (ADAAG) that define the baseline for the Standards. So basically, the Guidelines are cookbooks for the Standards that define compliance with the ADA which is a Federal law. Or put another way, the ADA is law, the Standards are legal interpretations that clarify that law and how it will be interpreted and the Guidelines help define how to meet those Standards. Confused enough?

If not, then as JimN noted, the ADA Standards or Guidelines may also be incorporated by reference into building codes. And that can get convoluted as they may be incorporated by reference into a code or ordinance that is in turn incorporated by reference into another code or ordinance. And they may be incorporated with or without modifications. A county or municipality may incorporate the state building code by reference but may also modify it or not reference at all. That is why it is so important to know what codes and ordinances are applicable for a project.

One common difference between building codes and the ADA for most projects is that building code or ordinances are usually enforced by compliance, in other words there are reviews and inspections to verify compliance while in comparison the ADA is typically enforced via assertions of non-compliance. A construction project plan review or inspection may not even address ADA compliance and a Architect's seal or Inspector's approval does does not protect the venue from being found to be non-compliant.

Violations of ADA can carry very large fines, the civil fine alone can be up to $50,000 for the first violation and $100,000 for each subsequent violation and that's in addition to any compensatory or punitive damages the Court may award. But the goal of such penalties is not to generate large fines and instead to encourage compliance or 'reasonable accommodation'. The idea is usually to make it more beneficial for everyone to comply with the ADA than to not comply. The Department of Justice does not want to be taking everyone to court, when a complaint is filed and found to have merit they'd prefer to see a resolution offered that creates compliance or reasonable accommodation. It's usually only when someone refuses to cooperate and work in good faith to resolve any non-compliance that the DoJ get aggressive in terms of pursuing legal action and fines.


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## mstaylor (Jan 4, 2011)

I think what Jim is saying is that the ADA is the minimum, but your local rules and regs can be tougher. What they can't do is pass local codes to make it less stringent. It is similar to OSHA, states can add to the OSHA rules but not make it less. I work in MD and DE mostly. MD has MOSHA, DE has just OSHA. MD's rules are somewhat tougher and are enforced at the state level.


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## museav (Jan 5, 2011)

mstaylor said:


> I think what Jim is saying is that the ADA is the minimum, but your local rules and regs can be tougher.


I agree that this is what he was probably trying to say, however the comments "The Federal guidelines and standards are exactly that-guidelines and a standard. That standard needs to be referenced by law to be enforceable." seemed to potentially provide a false understanding as ADA is law and the Standards do have legal authority regardless of whether or not they are incorporated into any building codes or ordinances.

I think it is important to understand that ADA addresses discrimination and rights of the disabled in general and that the accessibility aspect is just part of that. There are sections of the ADA that deal with employment and other issues that have nothing to do with buildings or other construction. Thus when referencing "ADA" we are actually referencing a much more encompassing issue and legislation and what we are probably addressing in terms of facilities are only the accessibility aspects of that Federal law.


mstaylor said:


> What they can't do is pass local codes to make it less stringent.


I don't think it is quite that black and white. As I understand the ADA accessibility Standards and Guidelines, if there are other considerations such as life safety or structural issues that prohibit compliance with the ADA Standards then that may be acceptable provided that "reasonable accommodation" for accessibility is provided. "Reasonable accommodation" can also be a major factor when dealing with existing, and especially historic, venues. While there may be no good excuse for a new facility to not be fully both code and ADA compliant, in existing buildings there may be conflicts which prohibit full compliance with both building code and ADA and in those cases the building code compliance usually takes precedence as long as some reasonable accommodation is made for the ADA issues.

An example I've seen several times are balconies in older venues. Making those balconies handicap accessible may be totally impractical, but if the balcony seat count is included in the provision of handicap and companion seating in the main floor seating and those seats are offered for the same price as the balcony seating then that will likely be seen as reasonable accommodation. On the other hand, if those same balconies cannot be made code compliant in other ways then there are no exceptions unless they are specifically pursued and granted by the Authority Having Jurisdiction.


mstaylor said:


> It is similar to OSHA, states can add to the OSHA rules but not make it less.


Agreed, building codes may include accessibility provisions beyond those required by ADA. However, there are also significant differences between OSHA and ADA compliance in terms of "reasonable accommodations" as noted above, enforcement and the application of penalties for non-compliance.


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## Ryan5443 (Jan 13, 2011)

jwl868 said:


> The ADA regulations appear to be here:
> 2010 ADA STANDARDS FOR ACCESSIBLE DESIGN
> 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design


 
In addition to that there are specific state, and town building codes/ordinances associated with accessibility. You should also check with your local building department and they can assist you, but if there is a question about accessibility your fire inspector might have cited you. It would be something interesting to explore. Let me know what you find out

RCF


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