# Chandelier horizontal fly



## backstagebadger (Aug 24, 2013)

Hi all,

My question for you today is this:
How would you personally go about making a chandelier go horizontally on and off the stage?
What I mean is, I want the chandeliers to silently move to equidistant places onstage SL and SR for certain scenes, and offstage SL and SR in the wings for other scenes. 
Flying is not an option, there is not enough flyspace. There is, however, an empty scenery pipe.
You also have I-Beams that can be hung off of above and on the walls.

Once you've figured that out, how do I get power to said chandeliers?

I have a certified rigger working on our set to check my work, but am curious as to what you would do.
Thanks!


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## JLNorthGA (Aug 24, 2013)

Ideally - get some weight rated track and carriers. Connect to the overhead (I-beams by preference). If the track can hold the weight of curtains - it can hold the weight of chandeliers. Power - that is another problem. I'm not sure about that. Fortunately I can fly everything - so the cord runs along the batten until the end of tha batten.


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## MPowers (Aug 24, 2013)

As he said, Simply track the chandeliers just as you would a bi-parting traveler curtain except, in effect, you are only using the master carriers. Depending on the weight of your chandeliers you can use any number of tracks from a light weight ADC170 to a 3E Uni Beam. Both ADC and H&H have scenery carriers that will support up to 225# each. The biggest issue is don't hang the chandler by the electric supply cord unless you buy cable intended for that purpose, i.e. it has a weight bearing GAC cable inside as well as the current carrying conductors. Second, for theatrical use do not hang by a single point or it will have a strong tendency to spin. Attach a second carrier to the weight bearing scenery carrier so it trails by 6"- 1' plus or minus. Attach a small, line, mono-filament, black spider line etc., tied off to the trailing side to prevent the spin. 

As for the power cord, create a festoon cable similar to commercial units Industrial Festooning Systems, Festoon Cable Systems, Pendant Control using individual single curtain carriers spaced 3' to 4' apart. You will want to use a small diameter, flexible cord such as a 14/3 SJO or similar so it will flex easily. If you are in position where your AHJ requires you to be code complient (rare for one time or one show-run events) you might need to purchase some flat cable from McMaster, Graybar, SSRC etc. McMaster-Carr scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on

> Continuous-Flex and Twist Multiconductor Cable


 and the AHJ might require you to use all scenery carriers, but I doubt it. 

Anyway, hope this helps.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 24, 2013)

I believe that the o.p. also wanted to vary the height or have it move laterally when out of sight. That would require a traveller line to move the master carrier left and right as well as a haul line. Words may fail here but haul line is tied off at one end of track, through the first of two sheaves on the master carrier, down and through a sheave on the chandelier, back up and another 90 degree turn around second sheave on master carrier, to other end of track through ander fixed sheave, and down to a winch or counterweight. You can move it laterally with the traverse line and vertically with the winch or counterweight handline. feeder is tougher here but I'd probably look at a sting reel on the master carrier and festoon to it.


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## JohnD (Aug 25, 2013)

What is a sting reel? I _think_ I know what it is, but there is a huge gap between thinking you know something and actually knowing. I am also hoping that if there is a wiki link, it will show up with this post.


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## JLNorthGA (Aug 25, 2013)

JohnD said:


> What is a sting reel? I _think_ I know what it is, but there is a huge gap between thinking you know something and actually knowing. I am also hoping that if there is a wiki link, it will show up with this post.



String reels are automatic cord winders. Pricy - but of good use in industrial locations. I've used them in former jobs - but not in theatrical work.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 25, 2013)

I meant to say cable reel - fingers out to lunch - and thought for a short term install you might get away with one from the hardware store for a trouble light - Designers Edge 25 ft. 14 /3 Retractable Metal Cord Reel with Work Light-E-251 at The Home Depot for instance - the goal being that the feeder does not exert any lateral force on the master carrier or chandelier.

When I built a rig like this in summer theatre many years ago, it was for Cleopatra (?) and I built two hand winches (think all wood drums and frame with pipe and speed rail "bearings") - one for the lifting and one for the traverse rigging. I think for a chandelier the manual traverse rigging would work - but it is moving the loaded lift line through a lot of sheaves so expect it to work hard. A pile ob pile off drum winch would make lateral movement easier and probably smoother. Of course so would motorizing but I assumed there was a budget.


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## backstagebadger (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks for the ideas! I'm thinking we'll see if we can't get some rated track, and I'll construct a festoon as MPowers described. Our AHJ doesn't include the rigging or lighting as part of their inspection, so we never have to worry about them.


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## MPowers (Aug 26, 2013)

How heavy are your chandeliers? I will make a guess that standard ADC 280 track will do just fine. It can handle a curtain weight of 50# per ft. EDL (evenly distributed load) and that's in the closed position, think what that is with the curtain open and all the weight concentrated to about 250# a foot. FWIW, the ADC 170 track will handle up to 15# per ft. EDL or roughly75# a foot concentrated. If you load is too heavy for the scenery carrier you choose, simply use two spaced about 3' - 4' apart with a solid bar connecting them and hang from the center point on the bar. here's a link to the various ADC scenery carriers and a list of their weight capacity. http://www.automaticdevices.com/assets/files/Catalog Pages/ADCCatalog52Stage&TVstudiopage84.pdf


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 26, 2013)

H&H had all of there products studied and rated by an engineer so they have real good data, including weight based on track supports. I think their scenery carrier is in the 250 pound range on their 400 track - about equivalent to ADC 280. And a small beam with a chain motor trolley is surprisingly not very expensive.

Now that I think about it the track for Cleopatra I made 40+ years ago was 2X8's or 10's and the trolley was plywood and casters. Forgot that.


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## MPowers (Aug 26, 2013)

Bill is absolutely correct about the H&H product. I really like their "Really Usuful Carrier"View attachment CAT16 page 54 Misc Hdwr.pdf
I'm a dealer for both H&H and ADC, but with your location in Maine, thought you'd be a bit closer to a local ADC Dealer, probably in the Boston area.


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## egilson1 (Aug 26, 2013)

We at ALPS (Boston) are H&H dealers. You can email me at [email protected]

Ethan


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## kicknargel (Aug 27, 2013)

I would expand on MPower's suggestion of a second line for stability. Even with that, you're going to get some swing as it travels. To counter that, I would make a "trolley" of a a piece of steel a few feet long, hung by scenery carriers at either end. Then the chandelier hangs from a bridle, with two lines going up and out at an angle. Often these can be 1/16" GAC.


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