# Swipe Card entry system



## sotonfan (Jan 14, 2022)

For the last few years, our theater has used a custom-designed keypad entry system on all backstage doors. The system is very flexible, and its computer interface allows us to assign/revoke codes on the fly for visitors and performers. I give a tour manager their code for the day, they share the code with the crew, and then everyone can get in and out of the backstage area when they need to.

We are a city-owned entity. This week I learned that the city IT department wants to move us to a swipe-card entry system at all doors. This would make us fit in with how things are handled in every other city building.

I'm uneasy about the change. Does anyone have experience using a swipe-card system for backstage doors? Especially for concert tours? How do you handle having a large number of tour members needing access to the building on a single day? Do we have to print and validate cards each time? How about the education wing in our basement? Or visitors for that area? If every person coming to visit the building at odd hours needs a swipe card, what can of worms are we opening up here?

OR... is this actually a really good idea? In many ways I would be glad to be told swipe cards are cool and to just relax and enjoy the ride.

Andrew


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## MRW Lights (Jan 14, 2022)

I can't provide specifics about my situation due to security, but I can tell you that I LOVE our Swipe Card access system. See if your town has swipe only, or tap, in which case you could also enable NFT TAP and send a registration link via email/text that can register a users device for a specified zone/door/time. 

Access control systems can be great as long as your municipality is helpful to you with access, programming and repair... I would make friends who the person in your IT department that manages it and have them help you help them...


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## SteveB (Jan 14, 2022)

We had a $90 million building built with a renovated theater and a beautiful orchestra rehearsal hall, no locks on any doors. Our backstage rolling door cannot be locked. Anybody who can stroll past a sleeping guard has access. Happens all the time. Our orchestra director decided not to follow University CV protocols and was proping open an emergency exit to the street so his friends could get into his performances without following CV entry requirements. They have this on camera. Tenure sometimes protects the wrong people,.

EDIT, Apologies, rant over.


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 14, 2022)

I sell, install, and support card / fob access control systems ... here are a few thoughts.

1) You could suggest that they create a hybrid system - so that permanent users (staff, etc.) use RFID cards or fobs, and the "here for a day or 2" users can still use a keypad code. The keypad can be connected to the RTE (request to exit) input on the card access system, so that they can remain separate in administration, but converge in function. Or the system the city already has might have keypad functionality baked in.

2) The NFC / emailed token approach is also quite neat - but in the rush of a show, there's gonna be a gaffer/rigger/musician who didn't bring their phone that day (home charging, lost it at the bar last nite) and so you should have the keypad or some other approach for them to be able to get in.

3) If the city will be doing all the administration, you gotta make clear to them the last-minute nature of needing to add/delete/extend the time frame of a temporarily authorized user -- theater and music won't fit nicely into their 4pm-midnite authorization window - what if strike runs late, etc. I'd say its crucial that you and your assistant retain some admin rights - so that you can issue (time-limited) access on the spot to users as needed. 

What part of the country/world are you in?


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## Crisp image (Jan 14, 2022)

My swipe card system at work has the ability to have swipe access and keypad access. It is also worth making sure that the access are not 24/7 but are based on times of the day. The last thing you need is a person accessing the space in the time where the duty tech is not there. 
I can set key codes and then have them automatically expire on a date determined by me. The keypads are also RFID readers so one device will work for both purposes. 
Regards 
Geoff


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## JimOC_1 (Jan 15, 2022)

Ben Stiegler. Any advice on how far to separate (or shield) back-to-back wall units servicing one door? I worked in a building a few years ago where no offset interfered, causing problems for ~10% of our full-time folks. I moved before getting the full story. Is it something sotonfan may run into?


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## almorton (Jan 17, 2022)

Ben Stiegler said:


> 1) You could suggest that they create a hybrid system - so that permanent users (staff, etc.) use RFID cards or fobs, and the "here for a day or 2" users can still use a keypad code.



That's what we're doing. One of our staff (we're a volunteer run theatre) installs and specifies alarm and security systems at his day job. The "permanent" crew will have fobs to get into areas but the cast (for example) will be given a key pad PIN which will change for every show run. This will also stop cast re-using a code they were give on a previous show in order to let themselves backstage on a whim.


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## TimMc (Jan 17, 2022)

At our PAC they use RFID proximity card systems with magnetic door locking. Employees, contractors, vendors, tenants... all are issued cards that can be day/date/time/door/elevator/floor restricted. Temporary venue users are issued cards from an inventory of expired passes with the access privileges updated.

The PAC also uses the CyberKey system for exterior doors, tenant office doors, and dressing rooms. The RFID system paid for itself by not needing staff to go unlock each CyberKey door between halls and other public areas.


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## LLDeen (Jan 18, 2022)

Andrew's assistant chiming in: To add additional info to the original post, with our current system we also have a touchscreen at the back door that is connected to the system and displays who is in the building. When you leave, you touch your name off the screen. This helps us know who is still in the building and who isn't when the last person goes to leave and set the alarm.

Also, we have levels to our security system. So if a manager isn't in the building, those underneath management can't get in. Same with our building partners. If one of their staff aren't in, those with rehearsal codes or codes for lessons can't get in. In addition, we have keypads at both exterior entry doors, a backstage door from the lobby, and a keypad on the door to the office area. Not all codes work on the door to the office as we don't want all code holders to enter that door.


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## sotonfan (Jan 19, 2022)

Thanks, all. I would love to see us keep the keypad system alongside a card system. This will be an interesting conversation with City IT. I will report back!


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## blueeyesdesigns (Jan 19, 2022)

I know it's not an ideal solution, but you might also be able to have certain doors programmed to stay unlocked during periods of time when you have a lot of folks coming and going. We have a prox card system run by our campus PD and if I need to I can call over and have them leave some doors unlocked for a while. Now if only I could get them to add it to all of the doors...


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## JonCarter (Jan 19, 2022)

All this?? What ever happened to the good ol' stage doorman?


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 19, 2022)

JimOC_1 said:


> Ben Stiegler. Any advice on how far to separate (or shield) back-to-back wall units servicing one door? I worked in a building a few years ago where no offset interfered, causing problems for ~10% of our full-time folks. I moved before getting the full story. Is it something sotonfan may run into?


I think you mean 2 readers were mounted back 2 back, perhaps with a large hole thru the sheetrock between them? That's interesting. Few thoughts:
- replacing the readers with newer/better ones
- replacing one reader with a mullion version (mounts on the metal door frame, which then shields it from the other one)
- make-your-own Faraday cage with some thin steel stock, solder a ground wire to it, place it between the 2 B2B readers, and ensure the ground wire ties to the ground wire on 1 of the reader cables.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 20, 2022)

Ben Stiegler said:


> I think you mean 2 readers were mounted back 2 back, perhaps with a large hole thru the sheetrock between them? That's interesting. Few thoughts:
> - replacing the readers with newer/better ones
> - replacing one reader with a mullion version (mounts on the metal door frame, which then shields it from the other one)
> - make-your-own Faraday cage with some thin steel stock, solder a ground wire to it, place it between the 2 B2B readers, and ensure the ground wire ties to the ground wire on 1 of the reader cables.


Possibly one reader on the hinged side, the other opposite nearer to the lockset? 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 20, 2022)

RonHebbard said:


> Possibly one reader on the hinged side, the other opposite nearer to the lockset?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


A solid idea RF-wise, not sure ADA and building codes would allow a reader that's not on the business side of the door.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 20, 2022)

Ben Stiegler said:


> A solid idea RF-wise, not sure ADA and building codes would allow a reader that's not on the business side of the door.


I noticed while hospitalized they're located ~8 to 10' from the doors to facilitate porters activating the doors prior to colliding with them. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## almorton (Jan 20, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> All this?? What ever happened to the good ol' stage doorman?


It's a good point, but this is also to control access to internal areas, and for times when there isn't a stage doorman on duty. There's been theatres I've worked in where the backstage and technical crew don't necessarily come in through the same stage door the cast do, too.


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 20, 2022)

As someone that works in high school theatres a lot where everything uses a physical key it would be so much nicer to have key cards as they can be issued more easily to people that are external contractors or even students but each can have they’re own access levels and doors they can actually unlock with having to constantly go and pester staff members that are focusing on directing the show and running rehearsals for their keys to unlock something especially as a lot of the doors lock when closed. 

I’m also sort of interested in what everyone’s opinion on here is about having access control systems such as keycards in high schools specifically in theatres?


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## JimOC_1 (Jan 20, 2022)

Ben Stiegler said:


> I think you mean 2 readers were mounted back 2 back, perhaps with a large hole thru the sheetrock between them? That's interesting. Few thoughts:


Thank you Ben Stiegler.


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 20, 2022)

RonHebbard said:


> I noticed while hospitalized they're located ~8 to 10' from the doors to facilitate porters activating the doors prior to colliding with them.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


ah, special use case ... sadly, I've seen those a few times too many as well.


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## TimMc (Jan 20, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> All this?? What ever happened to the good ol' stage doorman?


Facilities would rather spend $200,000 on access controls, computers, remote access, etc than pay wages to humans. That was how our PAC director got the city to pay for the system that was installed. They most like the idea that it's a one-time expense (kind of, sort of... ).


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## TimMc (Jan 20, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> As someone that works in high school theatres a lot where everything uses a physical key it would be so much nicer to have key cards as they can be issued more easily to people that are external contractors or even students but each can have they’re own access levels and doors they can actually unlock with having to constantly go and pester staff members that are focusing on directing the show and running rehearsals for their keys to unlock something especially as a lot of the doors lock when closed.
> 
> I’m also sort of interested in what everyone’s opinion on here is about having access control systems such as keycards in high schools specifically in theatres?


I think that's a question that needs to involve the district's security director as well as building administration. The SD will want everything double-locked, bullet proof, and require a note from a deceased relative... the Principal will be slightly less restrictive (the note may not be needed). And in general, giving students "keys" of any kind is seen as a security issue in most schools and that's been the case for decades.


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## Ben Stiegler (Jan 20, 2022)

and there's logs, and no sick shifts to cover, etc. Often optimal is a hybrid - access control at the portals, but enough cameras so that a campus or city-wide security officer can view/talk/provide access if a card fails or an elevator needs to be unlocked.


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## TimMc (Jan 20, 2022)

Ben Stiegler said:


> and there's logs, and no sick shifts to cover, etc. Often optimal is a hybrid - access control at the portals, but enough cameras so that a campus or city-wide security officer can view/talk/provide access if a card fails or an elevator needs to be unlocked.


Our PAC system was not well thought out. No call boxes, no way to contact *anyone* if one does not have working cell phone coverage - and there are places where one can get trapped where there is no coverage and no egress whatsoever. It happened 2 summers ago with a building tenant's build crew. Their card access is invalid between midnight and 7am, and a few carps were caught in a freight elevator lobby they could not escape from. They finally got a sliver of RF and called a supervisor with 24 hours access. I suggested this be reported to the fire marshal. I don't think that ever happened because the city extended the access to 1am and the tenant considered that sufficient.

Midnight was the original choice because city staff left at midnight after checking all exterior doors...


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 20, 2022)

TimMc said:


> I think that's a question that needs to involve the district's security director as well as building administration. The SD will want everything double-locked, bullet proof, and require a note from a deceased relative... the Principal will be slightly less restrictive (the note may not be needed). And in general, giving students "keys" of any kind is seen as a security issue in most schools and that's been the case for decades.


I wasn’t so much meaning the entire school more so just the theatre because of the amount of different students that use it and more so locking access to things like the bio-box/booth to only people who actually need to be in there or into certain store cupboards, and other areas backstage.

Not all students working on a production need to have access to all parts of a venue, and being able to more easily restrict patrons from areas they’re not meant to be in by using keycards or pins to get through a door sort of makes sense to me. And especially in schools students do like to mess up settings on gear so the ability to lock them out of somewhere easily unless they are in there with someone who is sort of supervising them seems like a good idea. It also means that teachers aren’t having to lend out their keys and therefore they shouldn’t go missing as often which happens quite regularly with some teachers at my school because they lend out their keys cause they’re in the middle of directing the rehearsal and can’t really leave to go unlock it and it still ends up interrupting the rehearsal and then they forget which student has taken them and that then also regularly interrupts rehearsals.


> And in general, giving students "keys" of any kind is seen as a security issue in most schools and that's been the case for decades.



I know schools and have been to schools where all exterior building doors are locked by keycards, fingerprint or code and students are given keycards with access to unlock any main entrance doors in the buildings they need access to and there has been no issue with security.

Also I’m in Australia where we don’t have school districts or at least don’t in the state I live in, so desicions like these would be down to the individual school unless the department of education made it mandatory for each school to have keycard locks on each door then my assumption would be they would also have to directly fund it otherwise it comes out of the schools pocket or projects budget if its a new build that they’re putting them into.

Edit: Accidentally clicked post so finished off writing the post.


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## JimOC_1 (Jan 20, 2022)

TimMc said:


> And in general, giving students "keys" of any kind is seen as a security issue in most schools and that's been the case for decades.


That would be an interesting poll. How many of us had keys to our HSs and Churches back in the day? I suspect most.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 20, 2022)

JimOC_1 said:


> That would be an interesting poll. How many of us had keys to our HSs and Churches back in the day? I suspect most.


The macho guy with the most keys wins then the lesser men began adding small bells between their keys to maximize their jangle. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## TimMc (Jan 20, 2022)

JimOC_1 said:


> That would be an interesting poll. How many of us had keys to our HSs and Churches back in the day? I suspect most.


I had a key to a couple of things in high school. That lasted until the administration found out, had the locks changed and fired the teacher.


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## TimMc (Jan 20, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> I wasn’t so much meaning the entire school more so just the theatre because of the amount of different students that use it and more so locking access to things like the bio-box/booth to only people who actually need to be in there or into certain store cupboards, and other areas backstage.
> 
> Not all students working on a production need to have access to all parts of a venue, and being able to more easily restrict patrons from areas they’re not meant to be in by using keycards or pins to get through a door sort of makes sense to me. And especially in schools students do like to mess up settings on gear so the ability to lock them out of somewhere easily unless they are in there with someone who is sort of supervising them seems like a good idea. It also means that teachers aren’t having to lend out their keys and therefore they shouldn’t go missing as often which happens quite regularly with some teachers at my school because they lend out their keys cause they’re in the middle of directing the rehearsal and can’t really leave to go unlock it and it still ends up interrupting the rehearsal and then they forget which student has taken them and that then also regularly interrupts rehearsals.
> 
> ...


I'd account for geography making for much of the difference....

And I agree with your observations about people (students, mostly) needing to get around, but that access is typically viewed as a compromise of physical plant security since the drama dept has rehearsals when there are few/no other school personnel present (most are gone 30 min after the last bell, about the time rehearsals get started). Schools tend to be leery of students without supervision after hours, but perhaps things are different in Australia.

When I say "school district" I refer to the administrative and taxing authority for schools in a defined geographic area. In the US, typically it's a city or county, or some division thereof. Does each school in Australia have their own taxing / financing authority, or are schools financed by direct tuition payments from students/families? Just curious...


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 21, 2022)

TimMc said:


> I'd account for geography making for much of the difference....
> 
> And I agree with your observations about people (students, mostly) needing to get around, but that access is typically viewed as a compromise of physical plant security since the drama dept has rehearsals when there are few/no other school personnel present (most are gone 30 min after the last bell, about the time rehearsals get started). Schools tend to be leery of students without supervision after hours, but perhaps things are different in Australia.
> 
> When I say "school district" I refer to the administrative and taxing authority for schools in a defined geographic area. In the US, typically it's a city or county, or some division thereof. Does each school in Australia have their own taxing / financing authority, or are schools financed by direct tuition payments from students/families? Just curious...


So most schools that I know of and certainly the one I go to is a completely seperate entity from the state government and is run independently but they are still governed by all of the rules set by the department of education, and are funded by both state and federal governments. While parents pay a small amount each year it is generally only around the $500 AU mark but varies on what electives students pick for that year. There are some private schools here where parents do pay quite a substantial sum to sent their kids to school but then those schools also generally receive funding from the government.

In rehearsals at my school there is always at least one staff member on site who is generally our main drama teacher, but sometimes we might also have our head of arts depending on the day and the show, so students are never at rehearsals or on school grounds after hours without a member of staff present. My whole argument is just to try and reduce the disruption of rehearsals and giving students and other working on the show that need access to areas the level of access they need and only the level of access they need. I also note that one of things that someone else mentioned earlier was the ability to make access conditional of someone else being in the venue so you could restrict cards to not being able to unlock any doors when there are no members of staff in the venue, but still allows students and people working on the show to access places they need when required such as accessing restricted backstage areas and backstage in general, biobox/booth to only tech crew and directors, gantry/catwalks to tech crew only, dressing rooms (would certainly put units with pin code functionality on anything that cast would need to access while in costume as I wouldn’t expect a cast member to be carrying around a swipe card while in costume, and then would leave doors to dressing rooms unlocked during actual shows so they don’t have to mess around with codes or swipe cards during show or you have a backstage team member with a card swiping people in to maintain the security that you get by having keycards)

Yes I know some schools are very strict on what they let students do and what they are allowed to have in the way of keys, etc but certainly at my school there are a lot of times where I need keys to get into cupboards and into things that are normally locked I can go and ask certain members of staff and they a lot of time will just give me their keys and I can do or get what I need and then just give them back. I don’t mean that you get access all of the time just during rehearsal times or when staff overseeing the production choose to allow you access outside of production times if they do, and then you hand back keycards at the end of the show unless you actually have a reason for needing post show. 

I mean I personally see a lot of advantages in having keycard systems in school theatres particularly in situations like mine but obviously each one would differ and would have to be looked at on a case by case basis and actually seeing what benefits it would give and what would potentially be the downfalls of having a keycard system in place.


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## JonCarter (Jan 22, 2022)

JimOC_1 said:


> That would be an interesting poll. How many of us had keys to our HSs and Churches back in the day? I suspect most.


I seem to remember having all the maser keys for every school I attended after about 7th grade. Either borrowed several individuals & made masters or borrowed masters & copied them. Still have them--somewhere. But the buildings have all been torn down long ago.


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 22, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> I seem to remember having all the maser keys for every school I attended after about 7th grade. Either borrowed several individuals & made masters or borrowed masters & copied them. Still have them--somewhere. But the buildings have all been torn down long ago.


I’ve got photos of the master key for my school theatre, and then I’ve also got a photo of the Grand Master Key for the entire school and then also the genie key but the masters are both restricted so would need to 3D print a key then take it to be cut otherwise they wouldn’t cut one, might do it at some point but not sure whether it’s actually worth it.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 23, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> I seem to remember having all the maser keys for every school I attended after about 7th grade. Either borrowed several individuals & made masters or borrowed masters & copied them. Still have them--somewhere. But the buildings have all been torn down long ago.


*@JonCarter * When I discovered our commercial AM station's studio master key had less metal than my tech' master, I invested several over night hours VERY carefully filing down my tech' master to a Grand Master. It worked superbly and lightened my load. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## gafftaper (Jan 24, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> As someone that works in high school theatres a lot where everything uses a physical key it would be so much nicer to have key cards as they can be issued more easily to people that are external contractors or even students but each can have they’re own access levels and doors they can actually unlock with having to constantly go and pester staff members that are focusing on directing the show and running rehearsals for their keys to unlock something especially as a lot of the doors lock when closed.
> 
> I’m also sort of interested in what everyone’s opinion on here is about having access control systems such as keycards in high schools specifically in theatres?


We have key cards at my school to disarm the alarm and unlock a limited number of exterior doors. All of my techs have keycards. My main lead guy has a set of interior keys checked out to him all the time. There is a second set of keys in a combination lock box in the lobby. So whomever else is there can always grab a pair of keys. There are four people in my position in the district and our cards can be used to open any of the other school PACs. They have keyboxes in their lobbies too. So, we can easily run over and support each other in Emergencies. 

The only issue I have is the slow district process of getting new key cards and adjusting permissions. But once they are set up, it's a great system. It's great if one of the techs disappears or you don't want them back as you can simply have their card disabled and they are locked out. 

I wish we had a keypad on the stage door, that we could give out codes to the kids with a supervisor lock out so they can get in once I'm there but not before. We just leave it unlocked with a cast only sign and parents around. It "works" but its not a serious security solution and could lead to issues.


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 25, 2022)

gafftaper said:


> We have key cards at my school to disarm the alarm and unlock a limited number of exterior doors. All of my techs have keycards. My main lead guy has a set of interior keys checked out to him all the time. There is a second set of keys in a combination lock box in the lobby. So whomever else is there can always grab a pair of keys. There are four people in my position in the district and our cards can be used to open any of the other school PACs. They have keyboxes in their lobbies too. So, we can easily run over and support each other in Emergencies.
> 
> The only issue I have is the slow district process of getting new key cards and adjusting permissions. But once they are set up, it's a great system. It's great if one of the techs disappears or you don't want them back as you can simply have their card disabled and they are locked out.
> 
> I wish we had a keypad on the stage door, that we could give out codes to the kids with a supervisor lock out so they can get in once I'm there but not before. We just leave it unlocked with a cast only sign and parents around. It "works" but its not a serious security solution and could lead to issues.


Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to add the keypad to the stage door would it or is it more the issue of actually giving codes out to the kids. It’s things like this that I see as the biggest advantage for having systems like this in place. 

It’s interesting that you mention that you’ve got a lockbox in the lobby that has a set of spare keys, how many different keys does it have and do the keys in the lockbox only work for that specific schools PAC or do they work for every schools PAC in the district?

I would sort of see it as another potential security issue if they are as if someone that shouldn’t have the keys acquires them then they could get into any PAC in the district. I mean the same sort of goes for any key that is common between schools a prime example at my school would be the gate key as it is the same at every school in the state which means any one with it can get onto a different schools grounds.

Nice though that you have a network of techs that can all support you when you need whether it be in accessing a building or I would assume with a show.


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## gafftaper (Jan 25, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to add the keypad to the stage door would it or is it more the issue of actually giving codes out to the kids. It’s things like this that I see as the biggest advantage for having systems like this in place.
> 
> It’s interesting that you mention that you’ve got a lockbox in the lobby that has a set of spare keys, how many different keys does it have and do the keys in the lockbox only work for that specific schools PAC or do they work for every schools PAC in the district?
> 
> ...


Clearly you have never dealt with school district facilities departments and security. You can't just decide that you want to put a keypad somewhere. Everything must fit into the district master plan. Odd ball pieces of technology in one location are a huge headache when you are trying to manage over 100 buildings. They don't care about your amazing idea for your space, they just want every building to meet the district wide operations plan and to work correctly. Odd technology just complicates their job and does not get approved. 

Each school PAC has different locks and a different needs for keys depending on the age, design, equipment installed, etc... 

We have four PACs with four PAC managers and a pool of about 20 part time stage hands who can work in any venue, although they tend to specialize given the different equipment in each space. It's a pretty good system.


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 25, 2022)

gafftaper said:


> Clearly you have never dealt with school district facilities departments and security. You can't just decide that you want to put a keypad somewhere. Everything must fit into the district master plan. Odd ball pieces of technology in one location are a huge headache when you are trying to manage over 100 buildings. They don't care about your amazing idea for your space, they just want every building to meet the district wide operations plan and to work correctly. Odd technology just complicates their job and does not get approved.
> 
> Each school PAC has different locks and a different needs for keys depending on the age, design, equipment installed, etc...
> 
> We have four PACs with four PAC managers and a pool of about 20 part time stage hands who can work in any venue, although they tend to specialize given the different equipment in each space. It's a pretty good system.


You are right in saying that I’ve never dealt with school districts because as I’ve mentioned before in this thread I live in Australia where at least in my state we don’t have school districts and decisions like that are up to the individual school. 

Having different keys is good but depending on how many different ones you’ve got then i would imagine it would start getting annoying, for our PAC we have 3 levels of key; Master, PA1 and PA2. Master obviously unlocks everything in the building then PA1 is restricted to the main theatre, classrooms, cupboards and doesn’t include anything like the cleaners cupboard then PA2 only allows access to the main theatre and classrooms in the building and might allow access into some other area but takes away access from our BioBox/Booth and our tech cupboard.

While they may specialise in certain pieces of equipment in different PACs they should in theory still understand the overarching theory behind things that you can potentially get help with. When it comes to sound some who is able to mix on a different console to what you have is still going to be able to mix on your console they may just not quite know their way around and may need to sit down for an hour or so and just go through it to get to grips with it. Same sort of goes for lighting any technician is going to know the top level non console idea of what they are wanting to do, it’s probably a bit harder when it comes to lighting because consoles have different syntax’s in which you use the desk.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 25, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> You are right in saying that I’ve never dealt with school districts because as I’ve mentioned before in this thread I live in Australia where at least in my state we don’t have school districts and decisions like that are up to the individual school.
> 
> Having different keys is good but depending on how many different ones you’ve got then i would imagine it would start getting annoying, for our PAC we have 3 levels of key; Master, PA1 and PA2. Master obviously unlocks everything in the building then PA1 is restricted to the main theatre, classrooms, cupboards and doesn’t include anything like the cleaners cupboard then PA2 only allows access to the main theatre and classrooms in the building and might allow access into some other area but takes away access from our BioBox/Booth and our tech cupboard.
> 
> While they may specialise in certain pieces of equipment in different PACs they should in theory still understand the overarching theory behind things that you can potentially get help with. When it comes to sound some who is able to mix on a different console to what you have is still going to be able to mix on your console they may just not quite know their way around and may need to sit down for an hour or so and just go through it to get to grips with it. Same sort of goes for lighting any technician is going to know the top level non console idea of what they are wanting to do, it’s probably a bit harder when it comes to lighting because consoles have different syntax’s in which you use the desk.


*@GameCrasher545 * Your term 'BioBox' puzzles me. I'm envisioning a glass-fronted display case in the lobby showcasing 8" x 10" glossies with mini-credits and biographies. I hope it's not biology samples scraped from your venue's floor. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 25, 2022)

RonHebbard said:


> *@GameCrasher545 * Your term 'BioBox' puzzles me. I'm envisioning a glass-fronted display case in the lobby showcasing 8" x 10" glossies with mini-credits and biographies. I hope it's not biology samples scraped from your venue's floor.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


@RonHebbard so the Bio Box is basically what we know as the booth or FOH but when compared to FOH it is more used to describe the enclosed position where the techs are whereas anything outside of the box is classed as FOH so if the sound op decides he/she/they want to mix from outside of the box then where ever they decide to pop it then that becomes known as a FOH Mixing Position sort of similar to at concerts. 

Here is a good article that explains the origin of the term biobox expect from these days a biobox is generally bigger than they used to be and instead can accomodate about 4 to 15 people depending on the size. In one of the ones that I’ve done work in recently that is a brand new build that was only finished about 5 months ago, the bio box is big enough to fit LX op, Sound Op, VX op, then LD, and even more people but with space along the main bench for about 5 people seated depending on size of consoles being used. But there is enough space that if needed you could set up another row of tables to add additional positions for more crew for example if using robo cams then you could set up your robo cam ops of the additional tables. But basically the biobox is the same as what others know as the tech booth.


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## Crisp image (Jan 26, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> Surely it wouldn’t be too hard to add the keypad to the stage door would it or is it more the issue of actually giving codes out to the kids. It’s things like this that I see as the biggest advantage for having systems like this in place.


Adding a keypad is not that hard and the keypads I use are card readers too. However you need a way to add and change the code without applying to the almighty administrators of a school or those who control such things. I am fortunate that person is me and I can do all sorts of things to my system. There are devices like these Keypad controller which is a stand alone device that can control 1 door but it has limitations such as no time control and you also need a power backup because if the power goes out the doors unlock.


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## GameCrasher545 (Jan 26, 2022)

Crisp image said:


> Adding a keypad is not that hard and the keypads I use are card readers too. However you need a way to add and change the code without applying to the almighty administrators of a school or those who control such things. I am fortunate that person is me and I can do all sorts of things to my system. There are devices like these Keypad controller which is a stand alone device that can control 1 door but it has limitations such as no time control and you also need a power backup because if the power goes out the doors unlock.


That makes sense, I personally believe that anyone who is high up in a department so head and certain teachers should have access to be able to assign codes and have keycards issued without having upper admin interfering, like they should be restricted to only assigning certain permissions and also maybe if there was the ability to interface with the schools SIS then you can make sure that only students that have stuff scheduled during times or do anything in those areas are able to have codes or be given codes.

Just out of interest what specific system do you have in your PAC?

Edit: adjusted spelling from put to out in final sentence.


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## gafftaper (Jan 26, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> Having different keys is good but depending on how many different ones you’ve got then i would imagine it would start getting annoying, for our PAC we have 3 levels of key; Master, PA1 and PA2. Master obviously unlocks everything in the building then PA1 is restricted to the main theatre, classrooms, cupboards and doesn’t include anything like the cleaners cupboard then PA2 only allows access to the main theatre and classrooms in the building and might allow access into some other area but takes away access from our BioBox/Booth and our tech cupboard.


Yeah again... school district security polices. We have a theater master key that opens every door in the theater, a key to unlock the padlocks on the fly rail, and a key for the motorized electrics. The district is very restrictive on who gets a full building master. I'm not even allowed a key to unlock the stage door from the outside, I have to go around through the lobby and use the keycard reader to get in the building and then unlock the stage door from the inside. That said, it's nice when the random kid shows up asking for help getting into the band room to be able to say, "Sorry kid I don't have that key."


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## Crisp image (Jan 26, 2022)

GameCrasher545 said:


> That makes sense, I personally believe that anyone who is high up in a department so head and certain teachers should have access to be able to assign codes and have keycards issued without having upper admin interfering, like they should be restricted to only assigning certain permissions and also maybe if there was the ability to interface with the schools SIS then you can make sure that only students that have stuff scheduled during times or do anything in those areas are able to have codes or be given codes.
> 
> Just out of interest what specific system do you have in your PAC?
> 
> Edit: adjusted spelling from put to out in final sentence.


I am also in Australia and at my other place of employment which is where I administer changes to the door system we use Genesis Access systems As for our PAC which is almost complete (opening in March) we are using a different system but the name escapes me at this point. I will not have any admin rights to that one.


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## JonCarter (Jan 27, 2022)

RonHebbard said:


> *@JonCarter * When I discovered our commercial AM station's studio master key had less metal than my tech' master, I invested several over night hours VERY carefully filing down my tech' master to a Grand Master. It worked superbly and lightened my load.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


Yep, works most every time.


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