# A question about pipes in drops & scrims



## GBtimex (Jan 10, 2011)

A question for those who know: 

Is there any large advantage to using longer (15-20 ft) pipes for weight in drops? Would shorter ones (say 5-10 ft) pipes cause any bad problems?

My stage is also used for Basketball games and has a set of bleachers where my backstage storage space should be. As such we have to store all of our pipes under them. This results in a lot of banging the pipes and a great deal of time being taken up when my crew has to take a pipe of more then 10 ft out for a production. I would very much like to take our longer pipes and cut them down to 10 ft and use couplers instead of having 15- 20 ft pipes. I was told by some people this would be a terrible idea because it would make the scrims not look right and it would weaken the effectiveness of the pipes. I have also been told by others that weight is weight and it makes no real difference but does tend to take up more time since you have to stop every few feet to unscrew pipe after pipe. Does anyone have any thoughts on this issue?


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## Edrick (Jan 10, 2011)

You want to use them to hang the curtains? There was a topic on here recently about why you cannot use threaded pipe to screw them together.


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## nd925a (Jan 10, 2011)

With little experience with scrims it sounds like coupling the pipes makes it as though there is only one pipe, so weight is weight??


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## Footer (Jan 10, 2011)

Couples on most fittings especially for bottom pipe tend to not be perfect. If you can go longer, do, but if you can't you can't. With each coupling you introduce a bit of play that can cause the pipe to bow. Most houses stock bottom pipe in 21' lengths. Most touring shows carry bottom pipe in 10' lengths or less. As long as after you cut the pipe it gets re-threaded squarely you should be fine.


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## GBtimex (Jan 10, 2011)

This is for the bottom part of the drop. I have been told that Scrims in particular would not look right with so many couplers in it. I personally doubt this but I don't want to cut my pipes and then find out that I have made a horrible mistake.


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## jonliles (Jan 10, 2011)

Why not use chain?


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## Footer (Jan 10, 2011)

jonliles said:


> Why not use chain?


 
You can't stretch a drop/cyc/scrim against chain. 

Idealy, you want your pipe lengths as long as possible, but you gotta do what you gotta do. I assume your space does not have a fly system. One of the reasons you want perfectly straight pipe pockets is so the drop flys flat and does not crash into other things on the way out. If you are dead hung, cut the pipe, you will be fine. Once again though, make sure that when the pipe is re-threaded... it gets done correctly. It is possible to thread pipe at an angle. Nothing will drive you more crazy then that.


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## GBtimex (Jan 10, 2011)

We actually do have a fly system and yes I have had my scrims bow out enough that I did hit lights and other drops. However on the plus side I was going to have the pipes re threaded as they are in bad need of repair anyway. It simply takes 5 to 11 minutes (yes I did count) to get a 20+ pipe out from the tight space it is in to the stage. Multiply that times the number of pipes that I needed for a show and suddenly I am sort one or 2 guys for almost 45 minutes. My plan is to cut them, thread them and then put them into bundles of 5 or so that way one stage hand can grab them and that one whole drop now has all it's pipe in trip. I maybe hoping for too much but hey the show has to go up.


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## Footer (Jan 10, 2011)

GBtimex said:


> We actually do have a fly system and yes I have had my scrims bow out enough that I did hit lights and other drops. However on the plus side I was going to have the pipes re threaded as they are in bad need of repair anyway. It simply takes 5 to 11 minutes (yes I did count) to get a 20+ pipe out from the tight space it is in to the stage. Multiply that times the number of pipes that I needed for a show and suddenly I am sort one or 2 guys for almost 45 minutes. My plan is to cut them, thread them and then put them into bundles of 5 or so that way one stage hand can grab them and that one whole drop now has all it's pipe in trip. I maybe hoping for too much but hey the show has to go up.



One degree of deviation over 20' equals 4" by the time you get to the end of the pipe. It only takes one cross threaded pipe or one pipe that is just a bit off to throw everything off. If you have fly space concerns, keep the pieces long.


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## visagegyc (Jan 10, 2011)

From that perspective could one argue that replacing a bent 10 foot piece or rethreading it is easier than replacing a 20 footer that got bent?


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## mstaylor (Jan 10, 2011)

What size pipe are you using? If you cut it then abolutely get it rethreaded by a shop or plumber that knows how to do it properly. Also buy extra couplers to screw on the pipe when stored, it will keep the threads in good shape, you don't need to tighten them, simply hand screw it on.


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## JBrennan (Jan 11, 2011)

It seems like you have made up your mind already with the advice offered, but we do this all the time and it works fine. Yes longer pipes are ideal, but for various reasons we use 10' sections of pipe and screw them together with couplers as we slot them in the pocket at the bottom of the scrim. It's relatively tedious but no worse than anything else and I have never noticed the scrim to look disjointed.


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## irish79 (Jan 12, 2011)

Alot of the shows that come through here aren't even using couplers any more. They have internal inserts in their bottom pipe and just gaff tape the joint. Makes things go pretty quick as long as you remember the courtesy tab for taking them apart


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## MNicolai (Jan 12, 2011)

irish79 said:


> Alot of the shows that come through here aren't even using couplers any more. They have internal inserts in their bottom pipe and just gaff tape the joint. Makes things go pretty quick as long as you remember the courtesy tab for taking them apart


 
That's what we do, but we don't even bother with the tape. It's a non-issue on the way in, and we haven't had any problems getting the bottom pipes out. A few extra hands available to play "bouncy-bouncy" and it goes pretty quickly.


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## GBtimex (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice folks. I think I will be cutting them down to size. I am glad to hear that it will not be the epic disaster that I feared it might become.


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## JBrennan (Jan 12, 2011)

Love the courtesy tab


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## shiben (Jan 13, 2011)

Im just confused why you need to store the pipes somewhere? Do you need to take your scrim off of its batten every time you dont use it in the show? Why not just fly it out? Also, even if you do, why bother with storing the pipes somewhere else, cant you just rig them to a batten (safely of course, but if your hanging drops on them, hanging 21' pipes on them should not be too much of an issue) and fly them out? I guess Im missing why you need to store the pipes elsewhere. A local theater near us has 2 or 3 battens on which they have a pipe trim chained to the batten, so that if you want to put a drop on it, you drop the batten, get a couple people, take the pipe off, attach the drop, fly to working height, put in the pipes, and take er out.


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## LXPlot (Jan 13, 2011)

Also you should note that the threading is liable to warp after some time, probably in less time than it would take for a long bar to warp. I highly recommend not cutting them, and if you can, possibly finding a better place to store them. That would be the best of both worlds. 

On the other hand, if you get the threading done professionally it will probably last a number of years or more, which would be okay I guess. Just make sure this is really the best option before you do it.


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## mstaylor (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't understand what you mean by the threads will warp? If you cut them they will be less susceptible to bending period. Long lengths tend to get bend during handling. Short pieces get their threads dinged from mishandling. I would cut them and screw couplers on both ends when storing.


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