# Show Run Essentials



## TalkingCures227 (May 17, 2010)

I'm wondering what you guys on here see as essentials to have on your person during a performance if your running something during the show. 

Here's mine: 
Pocketknife 
Crescent Wrench
Screwdriver
2 Flashlights
Laserpointer

And of course gaff tape near by. 

What's in your pockets during the run of a show?

_________________________________________________________________
-Dave, Jack of All Techie Trades.
Ohio Wesleyan University Department of Theatre and Dance.


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## kiwitechgirl (May 17, 2010)

Depends what I'm doing. If I'm stage managing, then a stopwatch and a pencil, pretty much nothing else. If I'm ASM or run crew, then my Gerber, Maglite, headtorch, and usually a Sharpie and a pencil. I'm curious about the laser pointer - it's not something I've ever felt the need to have!


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## MarshallPope (May 17, 2010)

My basics are:

Minimag
LED red/white flashlight
pocketknife
sharpie
setwear gloves
and a handy roll of gaff.

If I'm stage managing, I like to add a bag with extra sharpies, pens, pencils, needle and thread, gaff, spike tape, Tylenol, munchies, paperclips, safety pins, etc.


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## DanAyers (May 17, 2010)

Not necessairily on your person but...

I ensure a basic first aid kit is easily accessible, I include 4x4 bandages, bandaids, tylenol, advil, immodium a-d, tums, tweezers, curlex rolls, tape, and a few other odd's & ends. I personally keep a SAM Splint and two triangle bandages also. But then I'm a ski patroller and kinda uptight about having proper first-aid supplies handy. 

If you people are employeed in the theater, OSHA Requires an OSHA approved first-aid kit backstage. I don't think highly of them for a number of reasons. Consult your local laws regarding their use, depending where you live you may be required to use the OSHA approved first-aid kit for anyone on payroll at the time of the injury.

Also I require all my theater people to go through the American Red Cross Basic first-aid & adult CPR or equivilent courses.


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## Kelite (May 17, 2010)

DanAyers said:


> Also I require all my theater people to go through the American Red Cross Basic first-aid & adult CPR or equivilent courses.




Huzzah!

Your wisdom regarding this detail has been noted and I commend you!


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## bishopthomas (May 17, 2010)

I do mostly concert work and if I'm doing audio I will lose the C-wrench, otherwise, here it is:

Sog Trident folding knife
Sog PowerLock multitool
Fenix TK10 flashlight
sharpee
crescent wrench goes with me when I'm working for others, or it stays in my workbox on gigs where I'm providing
I usually leave my keys and phone in my gig bag because I hate having so much crap on me

I also carry with me in my gig bag:
laptop (how else would I be on CB while at this gig?)
Audio Technica M50 headphones
1" white gaff for console labeling
spare water for the times when I can't find them at the gig
disinfectant wipes because I hate driving home with dirty hands
lots of sharpees and business cards
camera and USB cable
Excedrin
folder labeled "This Gig" for all relevant gig info (stage plots, etc.)
notepad
envelope for receipts when I'm on the road
IEM's/earplugs
work gloves

Also in my bag right now is Gatorade, canned tea, hot tea bags, Famous Amos cookies, M&M's, and a bit of trick line.


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## DuckJordan (May 17, 2010)

bishopthomas said:


> Also in my bag right now is Gatorade, canned tea, hot tea bags, Famous Amos cookies, M&M's, and a bit of trick line.



Have you ever had the knock off of Famous Amos Cookies? Their called Hanous Anus cookies, and they are dreadful

As far as what i carry, Mag light, Crescent, gloves, multi-tool. anything else is in my bag about 2 foot away when i'm on console duty.


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## bishopthomas (May 17, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> Have you ever had the knock off of Famous Amos Cookies? Their called Hanous Anus cookies, and they are dreadful



Haha! I've never had them and not sure I would eat those butt hole cookies if I was starving.


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## Footer (May 17, 2010)

During a RUN of a show or during the load in/strike period of a show?

During a run you should not need anything beyond a flashlight unless your scenery is falling apart. If your in blacks, all tools beyond a leatherman should not be on your person, short of a coffin lock key if that is the type of show you are doing.


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## bishopthomas (May 17, 2010)

Footer said:


> short of a coffin lock key if that is the type of show you are doing.



A coffin lock key? Now I'm interested. Would that be for a speed stage building competition/demonstration, maybe a magic show (get in the coffin and disappear trick)?


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## avkid (May 17, 2010)

Phone (Blackberry later this week)
wallet
black Sharpie
pen
Leatherman Wave
Craftsman lockback utility knife (until I find a good blade)
small keyring
leashed 8in adjustable wrench (6 is for girls)

If I am feeling like a badass there may be a Ka-Bar in the vicinity.


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## Footer (May 17, 2010)

bishopthomas said:


> A coffin lock key? Now I'm interested. Would that be for a speed stage building competition/demonstration, maybe a magic show (get in the coffin and disappear trick)?



I have built and worked on many shows that use coffin locks to hold pieces together during the show. Usually its two pieces that come on from either side of stage and marry together at center. Its a quick way to lock two pieces together. Its more secure then a loose pin hinge and is much faster to lock then trying to drop a pin in the dark.


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## ScottT (May 17, 2010)

bishopthomas said:


> A coffin lock key? Now I'm interested. Would that be for a speed stage building competition/demonstration, maybe a magic show (get in the coffin and disappear trick)?



It could be, but mainly it's for locking moving scenery pieces together.


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## bishopthomas (May 17, 2010)

Ah-hah. Thanks for explaining to this theatrically ignorant rocker.


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## cdcarter (May 19, 2010)

During show conditions? Leatherman, phone, flashlight, and a few cubits of tieline. Other good things are in my bag.


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## Anvilx (May 20, 2010)

avkid said:


> Craftsman lockback utility knife (until I find a good blade)



I did the craftsman locking utility knife thing for a while. Stop, go buy yourself a good knife like the Kershaw Scallion. the craftsman was nice only because I could dish out abuse, but I was amazed at just how much better a nice folder was. The only thing about the scallion is that is an assisted blade and I am not really sure how that works with local and federal law, besides that I fully stand by that knife as an EDC.


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## NJLX (May 20, 2010)

during a show, always a knife and a flashlight, at minimum. 
knife: Pocket Knives - Drifter - CRKT
flashlight: usually a 2-cell mini-mag

when running the light board, this expands to include my laptop(manuals, breaks) and some type of caffienated beverage.


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## shiben (May 23, 2010)

Keys, Wallet, CRKT M16-12EZR, blue gelled mini-mag.

In the bail-out bag, however, we have a crecent wrench, a Surefire flashlight of some type , a Mag-Lite (4 D cells, i think, maybe 3? Its big), large first aid kit (includes a splinting thing, never had to use it and my personal training does not cover it, one of my co-workers insisted), 2 bottles water, 1 bottle gatorade, some cookies and juice boxes (in case of diabetic issues), a Multi-tool, screwdriver and wirecutters, work gloves, emergency response plans, a walkie-talkie with spare batteries (for communicating with security in the event of a hostage situation), 3 "Area Emergency somethingorother" vests (if there is a fire, we have to put them on and walk everyone out, trying to keep them calm), and a couple other things I cant remember. There was discussion of adding triage zone blankets to the bag, but that just seemed un-neccecary. The Bail-out bag is kept in the booth, and is there to use in emergency response (we have a couple of WEMTs (a cert I will be persuing this coming year) that are part of our program, so the first aid kit is for them), and we have actually used it quite a bit. Its in a nice red bag. We tried to plan for most eventualities, in line with our security people's response planning guidelines. There are set responses for everything from a chemical leak to terrorist attack to someone fainting, and we tried to get as much of the stuff that we could deal with not having profesionals... (there is also a nuclear strike response plan, not sure why, mines go watch the bombs fall)


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## chris325 (May 23, 2010)

shiben said:


> (there is also a nuclear strike response plan, not sure why, mines go watch the bombs fall)



Um, how old are these safety plans? The US hasn't exactly been in grave danger of a nuclear attack since the Cold War.

A nucular attack, on the other hand, occured during one of Sarah Palin's speeches during the democratic primary... (cheap shot, but it was worth it.)


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## gafftapegreenia (May 23, 2010)

avkid said:


> Leatherman Wave
> Craftsman lockback utility knife (until I find a good blade)
> :




I say keep your lockback. Personally, I have a Husky brand one. I've abused the hell out of it but hey, thats what its for. I'll cut cardboard and carpet with it and thats ok. Tasks that would damage a better blade (cutting emergency gel cuts on a chipboard table top) that destroy normal knife edges fast don't matter when I can pop in a new blade. On top of that, you already have a Wave, with its one-handed blades. One handed tacti-cool knives are fun but I guess I've always been more about function and utility in what I end up carrying

To that end my "essentials" are

Wallet
Keys
Cellphone (usually on silent, but increasingly on vibrate, I've gotten texts from the booth when something goes wrong and they don't know the answer - oh educational theatre)
Mega-Combo Wrench 

And on my belt in a Nite-Ize pouch
Leatherman Core
Leatherman Serac S3 Flashlight 
Folding utility knife
Victorinox Electrician


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## shiben (May 23, 2010)

chris325 said:


> Um, how old are these safety plans? The US hasn't exactly been in grave danger of a nuclear attack since the Cold War.
> 
> A nucular attack, on the other hand, occured during one of Sarah Palin's speeches during the democratic primary... (cheap shot, but it was worth it.)



Actually not that old. Its not a very detailed plan, because what everyone knows is that its over once the ICBMs start flying. Anyhow, we should have a nucular attack plan too, being a liberal christian school... sometimes the college republicans like the remind us of how good Bush and Palin would be to us... (no one ever said you had to be smart to do college).


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## mstaylor (May 23, 2010)

Anvilx said:


> I did the craftsman locking utility knife thing for a while. Stop, go buy yourself a good knife like the Kershaw Scallion. the craftsman was nice only because I could dish out abuse, but I was amazed at just how much better a nice folder was. The only thing about the scallion is that is an assisted blade and I am not really sure how that works with local and federal law, besides that I fully stand by that knife as an EDC.


You are fine with a spring assisted knife, I have several and have checked them with cops in multible states including secret service checkpoint. SS made us house all multi tools and knives in an office during the Inaugural ball itself, before and after was fine.


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## zuixro (May 23, 2010)

So we had a rental yesterday, a dance recital. During the fifth "Act" (of seven, blech) the call comes over the coms: "The lights back here just went out. We can't see anything. Turn them back on." I almost said "why don't you have a flashlight," but I caught myself.

Anyway. I always have my Leatherman Charge TTi, (in that same pouch I have: Leatherman Serac2 LED flashlight, Gerber Shard pry tool, Zebra F301 Compact pen), my phone in a holster, Pocket: Stainless Steel Sharpie, Zebra F402 pen, Keys (a lot of times I put them in my bag and leave that in the booth), Wallet, Moleskine miniature notebook (great for writing down my sound patch, mic quantity/placement, director's notes, or lighting circuits). 

I just got a 4Sevens Quark AA2 Tactical flashlight. I'm having a little trouble getting it to work, I think it might be defective. 4Sevens has great customer support though.

Edit: I should mention, When I work at other places I carry a C-wrench on a lanyard. All of our fixtures have SureClamps though, so there's no reason to carry one when I'm at my main theatre.


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## TalkingCures227 (May 27, 2010)

"Stainless Steel Sharpie"

WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT?!? That's awesome! 

Also, I use the laser pointer in case of needing to show someone something far away, it's extremely helpful because it won't draw attention unless it's pointed somewhere obvious. So say you have a run crew person who needs help, instead of pointing aimlessly across the back stage area to show another member where help is needed, you just laz the target. (Yes I feel cool when I use military terms in tech theatre. =) ). I know this question was asked a while ago, but I was out of internet service for a while.


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## erosing (May 27, 2010)

TalkingCures227 said:


> "Stainless Steel Sharpie"
> 
> WHERE DID YOU FIND THAT?!? That's awesome!



You can find them at most office stores, I know every office max I've been in the last few months has had them. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## masterelectrician2112 (May 27, 2010)

Guess I'm heading to Office Max then! 

I usually carry a flashlight backstage, but since it's a school, I can't have my multi-tool with me. I also have my phone, ipod, and wallet on me 99% of the time including when I am not working.


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## avkid (May 28, 2010)

Update:
I got a real knife, a Gerber Paraframe™ II.


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## erosing (May 28, 2010)

avkid said:


> Update:
> I got a real knife, a Gerber Paraframe™ II.



The Paraframe series is pretty solid, I've had 2 (one big, one small) for a number of years now.


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## philwantspro6 (May 28, 2010)

I will certainly have a kershaw knife, cell phone, sharpie, pen, e-tape, credit card and ID with me at any given time during a show.

This list will soon grow as Im gonna be working for IATSE.

Phil


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## shiben (May 29, 2010)

philwantspro6 said:


> This list will soon grow as Im gonna be working for IATSE.
> 
> Phil



Gonna add coffee cup, doughnut, cigarette pack+Lighter, crew swag, and maybe a crescent wrench to the list?


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## photoatdv (May 29, 2010)

At my main job: gloves and pouch with c-wrench, sharpie, leatherman, mini-mag

Freelance and/or the if you wanna use it you'll have to fix it first variety gigs:
Above plus:
Screwdriver set
precision screwdriver set
radios (2-8 depending on the gig) and earpieces
tie-line, quick clips, 20lb fishing line, ect (stuff to hang anything from a poster to a piece of plywood)
spike tape
gaff tape (black and white or neon)
e-tape
masking tape
felt/fleece black cloths (more for the sound stuff)
couple of cheapo LED flashlights
glow sticks
Sharpies in assorted colors (silver, 2-3 others)
leather and fingerless gloves
phone with numbers for local rental houses
laptop with manuals and tech support #s
Binder with show info
snacks
water
black jacket
bandaids (frankly if someone gets hurt worse than bandaids and gaff tape we're just going to call 911)
latex gloves
towel/clean shop rag
XLR cable
multimeter
zip ties
superglue
personal cd-player
headphones

EDIT: I'm REALLY glad to be out of high school... never could have multitools then (b/c clearly the 2" blade is FAR more dangerous the pens/pencils/ect)... now I don't do a show without one (including ones at schools).


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## MisterTim (May 29, 2010)

photoatdv said:


> EDIT: I'm REALLY glad to be out of high school... never could have multitools then (b/c clearly the 2" blade is FAR more dangerous the pens/pencils/ect)... now I don't do a show without one (including ones at schools).



You'll get in WAY more trouble as an adult carrying a multitool in a school than as a student. Just throwing that out there. Besides, you must have been doing something wrong if you couldn't keep a multitool out of site. I carried my Leatherman Skeletool every day to high school for 2 years and even used it in class; nobody batted an eye. Now that I'm not in high school, I would never carry it. We're talking jail/fine versus in-school suspension here. It's even a misdemeanor even to have a knife or any cutting instrument _in your car on school property_. (PA law, ymmv)

Sorry for the off-topic post, but I really felt like that needed saying.


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## bishopthomas (May 30, 2010)

I don't know where you went to school, but in mine I would have been suspended for at least 3 days (probably a week) if they found a knife on me. That was 10 years ago and I'm sure the rules have not gotten any more relaxed since then. As an adult I carry a multitool and a knife at every show I do (including those in middle/high schools). I've never had a single problem, even at high security federal museums and such (Ellis Island in particular). Maybe that's because when I work at high schools I act like an adult, look like one (being almost 30 and with a beard at times), and therefore get treated as one. I'm pretty sure that if a principle, or even school cop, saw me using my multitool to tighten down a microphone clip he wouldn't say anything about it.


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## photoatdv (May 30, 2010)

bishopthomas said:


> I don't know where you went to school, but in mine I would have been suspended for at least 3 days (probably a week) if they found a knife on me. That was 10 years ago and I'm sure the rules have not gotten any more relaxed since then. As an adult I carry a multitool and a knife at every show I do (including those in middle/high schools). I've never had a single problem, even at high security federal museums and such (Ellis Island in particular). Maybe that's because when I work at high schools I act like an adult, look like one (being almost 30 and with a beard at times), and therefore get treated as one. I'm pretty sure that if a principle, or even school cop, saw me using my multitool to tighten down a microphone clip he wouldn't say anything about it.


Exactly. We're hired to do a job, and expected to bring tools needed to do that job. I said something about hope its not a problem once when I pulled mine out to cut something in front of a school director and she laughed and said it's just the kids they care about. Never seen anyone bat an eyelid at it...

Also when I was in high school we would've been in a heck of a lot of trouble (suspended for at least a week) for it, but all of the professionals they hired had pocketknives/multitools and no one batted an eye...


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## bishopthomas (May 30, 2010)

photoatdv said:


> ... the *professionals* they hired had pocketknives/multitools and no one batted an eye...



This is the key word here. Act like a professional and you will be treated like one. You think electricians aren't allowed to bring wire cutters into a school because they're sharp? Sorry, pipe fitter, you can't have that welding torch here...


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## shiben (May 30, 2010)

MisterTim said:


> You'll get in WAY more trouble as an adult carrying a multitool in a school than as a student. Just throwing that out there. Besides, you must have been doing something wrong if you couldn't keep a multitool out of site. I carried my Leatherman Skeletool every day to high school for 2 years and even used it in class; nobody batted an eye. Now that I'm not in high school, I would never carry it. We're talking jail/fine versus in-school suspension here. It's even a misdemeanor even to have a knife or any cutting instrument _in your car on school property_. (PA law, ymmv)
> 
> Sorry for the off-topic post, but I really felt like that needed saying.



Im pretty sure that law applies to people who are picking up their kids and such... I still dont fully understand the idea behind that law, seeing as pretty much anything can be used as a weapon, in fact, a candy cane can become an incredibly lethal device in about 10 minutes. The fact you never got caught is amazing, we had kids get suspended for a week under the zero tolerance policies for having a pen knife (the little one that has an inch and a half blade), on the grounds that they had a weapon... Even though my scissors are more dangerous. Whatever. Point is, if your working on a job in the school, its more than likely you can have whatever you might need to do the job, anywhere from a pocket knife/multi-tool to an oxy-gas torch, and most things in-between, as was mentioned above. Im pretty sure the law either has exceptions for people working there or something... Here in MI I never had a problem with a tool belt full of lethal devices, from screwdrivers to scissors to a splicing knife to a leatherman, plus all the other things that you can make leathal real quick, and the school saw me and the TD bringing this in and printed us visitor badges, didnt even blink.


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## MisterTim (May 30, 2010)

shiben said:


> Im pretty sure that law applies to people who are picking up their kids and such... I still dont fully understand the idea behind that law, seeing as pretty much anything can be used as a weapon, in fact, a candy cane can become an incredibly lethal device in about 10 minutes. The fact you never got caught is amazing, we had kids get suspended for a week under the zero tolerance policies for having a pen knife (the little one that has an inch and a half blade), on the grounds that they had a weapon... Even though my scissors are more dangerous. Whatever. Point is, if your working on a job in the school, its more than likely you can have whatever you might need to do the job, anywhere from a pocket knife/multi-tool to an oxy-gas torch, and most things in-between, as was mentioned above. Im pretty sure the law either has exceptions for people working there or something... Here in MI I never had a problem with a tool belt full of lethal devices, from screwdrivers to scissors to a splicing knife to a leatherman, plus all the other things that you can make leathal real quick, and the school saw me and the TD bringing this in and printed us visitor badges, didnt even blink.




> Title 18 Â§ 912. Possession of weapon on school property.
> (a) Definition.--Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section
> 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes
> of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument,
> ...



So section C is what protects us. Though I guess the real protection is that nobody cares because (theoretically) we're professionals who know what we're doing.


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## JCarroll (May 31, 2010)

The administration knows all of us student techs personally at the school and doesn't think much of it when the few of us are using a leatherman to cut zipties, or a pocket knife to open a box. Now if any other kid were to have a leatherman out during school hours...


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## shiben (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow. That law has a VERY vage definition of a weapon. Im pretty sure I could get half the school and most of the teachers arrested on that if I were a prosecuter...


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## blindbuttkicker (Jul 11, 2012)

Things i carry on me when working at church

really tiny LED AAA Focusable Penlight with small rope (really bright for being so tiny when used in close spaces where i need it and for when my Enercell is too bright or unusable, which it is bright for being 84 lumens and so small.)

Enercell Mini Flashlight

Mini Multi-tool (small tiny pen sized light, phillips or a 3/4 screwdriver head, corkscrew (dont use that much) and a 2 inch knife blade (gets the job done for cutting the gaff tape, etc.) cheap peice of junk hoping to get a Leatherman or a Swiss Army some time (any recommendations and under $60 sorry if this isnt the place)

Flash Drive 8GB Lexar Stick Drive

Keys and Whistle on carabiner usually along with my penlight when working on lighting, as well as a small roll of electrical tape that i EDC (hey electrical tape comes in handy everywhere, so i carry a small roll)

Cell Phone in old PDA Holster, just wish it was a swivel but then again kind of glad that sometimes it isnt when up above and a really good velcro strap, as well as 32GB Ipod Touch, also fits with cell Phone in Holster sometimes if it needs to)

Apple Head phones w/ remote in small wind up case, pretty conveinent

4AAA spares in small pocket id holder thingy with rear zippered pocket, usually where my flash drive, multi tool and pen light go, as well as ID and small comb, just in case i need a quick battery change. Also sits on my carabiner sometimes via a o ring when up above for small nuts and such.


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## misterm (Jul 14, 2012)

high school director here. 
headset
leatherman
maglite
led light
gloves
pencil
sharpie
tieline

i've had some crazy stuff backstage before, especially with less than 3 feet of wing space......


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## gafftapegreenia (Jul 14, 2012)

Back when I did crew in high school all of our tools had to stay locked in our cars during school hours. Only after school or on weekends, and only after we had signed a responsibility agreement, we're we allowed to bring them in. 

A buddy of mine once got suspended for having a folder at a football game. He was being STUPID and showing it off. 

It's a real shame this country operates on zero tolerance laws and not by the maturity and responsibility of individual minors. Too much work I guess.


JCarroll said:


> using a leatherman to cut zipties...



People who use multi tools to trim zip ties are the scourge of stagecraft. At least use diagonal cutters. 

/rant


blindbuttkicker said:


> hoping to get a Leatherman or a Swiss Army some time (any recommendations and under $60 sorry if this isnt the place



Look at the Leatherman Freestyle or Wingman and the Victorinox Super Tinker. All solid choices around $30.


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 14, 2012)

gafftapegreenia said:


> People who use multi tools to trim zip ties are the scourge of stagecraft. At least use diagonal cutters.
> 
> /rant



In my opinion, regular diagonal cutters are just as bad as a multi-tool for trimming zip-ties. They still leave a sharp edge. It is better to use flush cutters.

If you are cutting them for removal, I don't see a benefit, other than cutters can actually cut and the multi-tool often has to break the ties due to amount of space.


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## FMEng (Jul 14, 2012)

If you want to get picky about installing cable ties, you use a tie wrap gun. A gun tensions the tie to a set amount and then cuts it perfectly flush. It leaves no sharp edge at all and the tie can be made tighter than one can easily do by hand. I use one all the time when wiring racks full of equipment. However, a Panduit tie wrap gun costs anywhere from $150 to $700, so it is kind of a specialty tool. 

For removing cable ties, nothing works better than sharp diagonal cutters.


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## Toffee (Jul 15, 2012)

At my theatre I normally only have on my radio I have to wear, my fenix LD22, my wallet, work keys, a knife and my phone. I don't carry a wrench or anything else unless it's a load in or out.


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 15, 2012)

Undoubtedly a tie-wrap gun is ideal, for racks. Big fan when I'm building racks, but then I'm also builing custom length cable. Though they are a bit overpriced for normal theatrical use and are too specialized an item to be carrying when you want to limit the weight on your person. This is why good flush cutters work for both installing and removing zip-ties. Cut flush with no sharp edges and removal of ties when done.


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## blindbuttkicker (Jul 20, 2012)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Back when I did crew in high school all of our tools had to stay locked in our cars during school hours. Only after school or on weekends, and only after we had signed a responsibility agreement, we're we allowed to bring them in.
> 
> A buddy of mine once got suspended for having a folder at a football game. He was being STUPID and showing it off.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much *gafftapegreenia*, ive ruled out the Ticker and am thinking the Wingman or Freestyle, very nice and very cheap, thanks again my fellow CB'er


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## Blacksheep0317 (Jul 26, 2012)

ScottT said:


> It could be, but mainly it's for locking moving scenery pieces together.



Dont forget your cases to! My shop uses coffin locks on any trunk. Mostly because they hold up to the abuse better. Dont work so well on racks and similar type cases with removeable lids and such though.


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