# Selection of a Student Stage Crew



## willmanc (Sep 10, 2008)

Help!
I'm a TD at the high school I teach at. The school is rather large and we usually get a large # of students to come out and participate in "Stage Crew." Because of our success in the local FREDDY AWARDS (televised local high school theatre awards based on the TONY Awards) we are getting a larger number of students...

I will have approximately 100 students show up to work on all aspects of tech theatre for a show.

I cant have that many!... for various reasons. 

My 2 biggest concerns are:
1. By having that many students it becomes crowd control and not educational.
2. Major safety concerns!

Here is the problem... how do I select my stage crew?
What criteria do I base my decisions on?
Are these criteria subjective or objective?

I need to keep a balance of seniors, juniors, sophomores, and freshman... because of that, it cant be based on knowledge alone! 

I'll take any ideas at this point!

Thanks!


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## lieperjp (Sep 10, 2008)

Pick ones you can trust!

If you do enough shows, and I bet you do more than one show a year, have a schedule where there is a rotation between shows. I would keep the most knowledgeable students on all the time to "train" the younger, inexperienced students. Also, if your students do lighting design, audio design, stage management, have a "head" student in each category: not necessarily a senior or junior, but one who is from the most knowledgeable. Then assign, do not let the "head" students pick, one, two, three assistants to train. I say this because students will either pick their friends, and may not pick the right person for the job. If you go this route, as a teacher you should outline what you want your students to learn and come up with a way to accomplish this; one way that I think of is to assign a list of duties to the "head" and the "assistants."

That's just my idea, others will bring their own. I am not really speaking from personal experience, just kind of what I would do as a future teacher. You really are in a pickle, because you need to let every one have an equal opportunity, but also need to weed out those who do it because they want to and are good at it, and those who only want to do it because everyone else is or because of the "Freddies."

The one thing you should be happy about is that you have more than enough helpers. It's better than not having enough people!!!


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## philhaney (Sep 10, 2008)

My two cents:

Come up with a written test, not too long, maybe two pages or a double sided sheet. Ask the students to define as many terms as they can from a list that you provide, as well as short essay questions (absolutely _NO _mutiple choice) like, "What is the most important thing when working on a stage crew?" to test their knowledge, and get a feel for their personality by how they answer. Also include at least one question to help you determine the student's attitude (like, "Why do you want to be on stage crew?").

In addition to the student's name, make sure they put down their year (freshman, sophomore, etc.). Grade the seniors more harshly than the freshmen (this may be the freshmen's first experience to theater, while the senior should have experience by now), but in any case use your judgement.

Have some sort of a system of criteria to justify your decision should you be challenged by a staff member or an irate parent, and don't be afraid to be creative. 

When I was IT department manager at another job I had a list of 15 computer programming terms on the test I gave to potential new-hires. The directions said to define any five. The terms were easy enough that anyone could get 7 to 10. I was testing the candidate to see how well he/she followed directions. The ones who tried to impress me by defining all of them lost points; If they can't follow directions on a test, how well will they follow directions when they're working for me? 


(The reason for no multiple-choice questions: When I went to college I was able to test into the advanced algebra class because the test was multiple choice, and I was able to logically deduce why three of the four answers could not be correct. I wasn't able to actually do the math. I enrolled in begining algebra instead. it was a good choice.)


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## derekleffew (Sep 10, 2008)

Talk about an embarrassment of riches! Most involved with High School complain they can't recruit enough crew. 

As others have said, it's your decision, and may be based on whatever, fair and non-discriminatory, criteria you choose. Just as a *Cast List* with roles is posted after auditions, a *Crew List* with assignments should be posted next to it. One Lead and one Assistant, in each department, is likely all that will need to be pre-determined. Assuming Stage Manager, Head Lights, Sound, Carpenter, Wardrobe, Props, plus one assistant for each, is twelve positions already, and these people may or may not actually run the show, (other than Stage Manager). Once work calls are posted, chances are good that your numbers will dwindle, and with feedback from your Leads, you will be able to assign additional deck crew, etc., as needed for the production. This same methodology is often used in the professional world, allows students to excel as well as teach, and encourages those excluded to try harder. Base your decisions on ambition and motivation, in addition to knowledge and experience.


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## seanandkate (Sep 10, 2008)

I certainly don't have THAT many students to choose from, but you're right -- numbers can be a safety concern. With about half that number as the maximum I have ever had, I would also recommend a rotating schedule. This will immediately cut your numbers per gig. I use my most senior technicians as crew chiefs only. There's becomes a job of deligation and supervision--valuable skills that they need to hone (I already know THEY can hang and focus a rig or set up a sound system. I want to make sure that by the time they graduate, their skillset has been passed on!) Have your seniors track tha calls attended and the hours each student puts in. I think that is a more valuable guide to who is 'better.' I can teach knowledge. Work ethic is much harder. Anybody who misses a call or two (whatever your threshhold is) gets shown the door. This arrangement usually lets everybody who wants to, to contribute equally. Then at the end of the year, divide them into teams and have a "Tech Olympics" -- always a good time!


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## ruinexplorer (Sep 10, 2008)

I am under the assumption based on your post that many of these students will not be from your school? If this is for multiple schools, have the other instructors assist you in "crowd" control. 

First thing: Figure out what positions you need to make the show run smoothly (leads, assistants, crew). I would choose from your trusted students who show apptitude for leadership to head each crew. Make sure you don't make any position more "glamorous" than another to avoid bickering. It should go without saying that all positions are needed to make the show go on.

Have a production meeting with the leads to establish what needs to be accomplished, what kind of crew they will have, and how you expect them to report to you (you do want to know what's going on). Provide more direct supervision over the parts of the production you deem most hazardous.

Ultimately it is your show. It should only be as big of a production as you are willing to make it. It boils down to leadership. Well over 95% of pageants (including the Olympics) are done by volunteers who have no experience. What makes them successful is the >5% that do know what they are doing. You will probably find that you have competent students of all ages, and as long as you keep on top of them you will have great leaders.


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## gafftaper (Sep 11, 2008)

I taught high school and I put together a killer crew. 

The first thing you need is a class as a prerequisite to being on the crew. Make the class tough! That helps you sort really fast. If they survive, then you will allow them into stage crew. 

Next you need a core group of people who know their stuff... and more importantly have the right maturity and attitude. I had a four heads: Lights, Sound, Production, and Scenics. Have meetings with them. Grant them some power to make decisions. Tell the rest of the group that they speak for you and need to be listened to or you can leave. From there you start dividing up the rest of the kids to work under the leads. If you are lucky you will have other good students who can then take over sub task teams. 

Consider this entire structure you are building a mentorship program. If someone is skilled but isn't willing or able to teach another, don't put them in charge. You are building for the future. 

Encourage a sense of teamwork and unity. As they develop their skills and work their way into your trust do your best to let them know they are valued. I had padlocks on all the various cabinets throughout the theater. My students couldn't get into the theater without my key... but once they were in, my leads were trusted with padlock keys to be able to do their work in their areas. It was amazing how powerful that authority and trust was. I had a student flat out tell me, "I'm going to work my butt off this year so that next year I can earn a set of keys".


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## Sayen (Sep 12, 2008)

I'd have to second just about everything already said here.

I don't require the class, but I do give priority to students in the class over others. Why should someone not supporting my enrollment numbers or sitting through formal training every day get a job over my enrolled students?

Track volunteers too. Students who show up for the crap jobs get rotated to the top when it comes to lead positions. Those who volunteer are far more likely to get their pick of positions.

Last resort, pimp them out to schools like mine where we're usually short handed.


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## hsaunier (Sep 13, 2008)

Find more activities to involve more people. If you have that many show for crew, do you have as many show up for casting? Add some productions that may not be as complicated (i.e. readers theater). Is your stage used for Band and Choir concerts? Use crew for that. School talent show? Use other activities as a step to the "Big Production".


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## JonasA (Feb 17, 2012)

*Too Many Student Techs!*

So, opposite to Florple's thread on needing _more_ techs - I need _less_ of them!

We recently put up sign-up sheets for the school Tech Crew, and today I arrived to find them full. Along with the usual gang who I had last year,* there's also 15-odd freshmen/Year 7's who have signed up*. This is a problem for me, because I only need so many desk ops and there's way too many of these kids even for follow spots, which is where our techs traditionally spend their first year before really working on desk/mixing.

*My question is, what can I do with these kids?* We don't have enough time, energy or equipment to run a proper class for them - it just doesn't work. Normally I'd say 'set construction', but we are fortunate enough to have the father of an ex-student who does this; he's actually a professional and we are his spare-time project between stuff like the recentish Charlotte's Web movie and working on the Australian pavilion at the 2010 China World Expo... he doesn't want kids bugging him.

I've had suggestions already for using them as ushers/house staff and for various menial jobs backstage that would normally be the domain of an abused ASM or dresser. Any other ideas? I really want to give these kids a shot, but I also have to get shows on stage without disaster...

/Jonas


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## museav (Feb 17, 2012)

*Re: Too Many Student Techs!*


JonasA said:


> Normally I'd say 'set construction', but we are fortunate enough to have the father of an ex-student who does this; he's actually a professional and we are his spare-time project between stuff like the recentish Charlotte's Web movie and working on the Australian pavilion at the 2010 China World Expo... he doesn't want kids bugging him.


This is a school right? The things that are there for the children to learn? That the taxpayers and parents pay for so they can be used to educate children? I'm sure you have past students who are mathematicians, linguists, writers, scientists, etc. and probably also a number of ex-student athletes. They may volunteer as tutors and coaches but they probably don't take the place of the students out on the field or court or in the classroom. If someone 'doesn't want kids bugging him' and is keeping the students from getting involved in or learning the craft then regardless of their skills or qualifications, maybe a school isn't the best place for them to be involved. 

Have you considered an 'apprentice' type arrangement where the new students essentially shadow the more experienced ones? Maybe have them spend a day or two watching each different position/role and learning what those people do, how they fit in to the overall production and so on?


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## chausman (Feb 17, 2012)

museav said:


> This is a school right? The things that are there for the children to learn? That the taxpayers and parents pay for so they can be used to educate children? I'm sure you have past students who are mathematicians, linguists, writers, scientists, etc. and probably also a number of ex-student athletes. They may volunteer as tutors and coaches but they probably don't take the place of the students out on the field or court or in the classroom. If someone 'doesn't want kids bugging him' and is keeping the students from getting involved in or learning the craft then regardless of their skills or qualifications, maybe a school isn't the best place for them to be involved.
> 
> Have you considered an 'apprentice' type arrangement where the new students essentially shadow the more experienced ones? Maybe have them spend a day or two watching each different position/role and learning what those people do, how they fit into the overall production and so on?



I agree with all of this. Just because he "can" build sets, doesn't mean he "should". Unless you are dealing with a group of mentally challenged students, or those you can't trust with a drill, they should be the ones building their show. (IMO) 

If you can't find any other person (if it must be a parent, can't you find a parent of a current student at least?), and you must find other places for students, form a publicity group, and have them work on advertising, posters, programs, etc. Shadowing also seems like a good option.


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## josh88 (Feb 17, 2012)

I've got to agree with the above^ I always have more students than I need. Can I build a better set than they can? Of course I can, so I save the intricate, hard stuff for me and have them do the rest, teaching them along the way and learning how to do it. Then if time allows I start to teach them how to do the detailed stuff I was saving for myself. If time is too short I just stay and do it. Just because you've got the talent to build something doesn't mean that you should limit the students. They need to learn how to do it and take ownership for their work and creation. I would either set up some arrangement like Brad said or say to your guy, thanks for the help, but I've got the students to do it on their own and if you still want to help it would be great if you could just make sure they don't do anything horribly wrong. Or, thanks, we'll call you when we're short again and could use the extra help.

I've got so many kids that in theory they could run a whole show by themselves with no help. It might be a little ugly but they could do it, teach extra kids how to program and run boards, what happens if someone gets sick, build up redundancy and start the young students with an older student learning the ropes so that when the oldest graduate they can transition in. Have them run EVERYTHING (within reason).


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## gcpsoundlight (Feb 17, 2012)

Although I now work, I participate every year with Melboune Gang Show (the scout show) and it is a requirement of all departments (sometimes even cast) that they help build sets. I have found that apart from what they learn, it helps make everyone get to know each other before they get to the theatre. 


Sent from my iDevice using Tapatalk - now you have to guess which one!


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## Theresa (Feb 17, 2012)

I feel that a big part of my job as a school set designer is teaching students skills in design, building, painting, and making props. I enjoy recruiting new students, and encouraging them to work together as a team.


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 22, 2012)

There are also other departments such as props and wardrobe that often get overlooked since theater departments are often scrambling for techs. It may take some creative positioning, but now is the time to get them involved.


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## JonasA (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, everyone. Some are being given to wardrobe (who ask every year for half a dozen or so dressers for the leads and just to help keep it all tidy) and a lot are being doubled up shadowing more senior members such as our desk ops and SM. I fully agree on the need to get them doing set, although I'm not sure what I think about potentially stepping on the toes of the current set designer/carpenter who does a very good job, very happily and very cheaply, but it will be raised with him. I'm sure he would be ok with the ones who are clearly going to finish the set with all 10 fingers still attached... A few will drop out when they see the schedule and all the late nights/long days, but enough will stay that it should work out well. This weekend is going to be spent crewing all the events (on paper, at least), and fingers crossed it will actually work out really well.


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## Tekik (Feb 29, 2012)

I came from a High School where we had far more "technicians" then we needed. People tended to sign up for the class thinking it was an easy A. My teachers solution. Don't make it an easy A. We tended to have 30 students at the beginning of the year and it narrowed down to the 12-15 willing to work and not sit around all class. The other solution we ended up using the last year was we added a new class called Stage Craft and made it a prerequisite for Stage Crew. It wasn't that hard if you wanted to be there but it required the kids to pay attention. It covered the basics of set construction, hanging, focusing, and rewiring lights, and how sound consoles worked. This not only ended up lowering the number of people unwilling to make the commitment of being on the stage crew entering the class, but also meant that the people coming in (usually sophomores) new the basics and didn't need to be babysat. Obviously this requirement was able to be waved if a student was coming in with a lot of previous experience (usually transfer students) I think the second option would be better for you as you just cant have 100 people backstage due to safety regulations. God help you if the fire marshal comes by...


> This is a school right? The things that are there for the children to learn? That the taxpayers and parents pay for so they can be used to educate children? I'm sure you have past students who are mathematicians, linguists, writers, scientists, etc. and probably also a number of ex-student athletes. They may volunteer as tutors and coaches but they probably don't take the place of the students out on the field or court or in the classroom. If someone 'doesn't want kids bugging him' and is keeping the students from getting involved in or learning the craft then regardless of their skills or qualifications, maybe a school isn't the best place for them to be involved.


The issue is that it is a safety hazard as well as unproductive. Tech is something that is very much a hands on learning experience and you cant give that kind of individual attention to the students when there are that many of them. Think of it as a bag of rice if you have enough for 15 people to eat but then distribute it among 100 people no one has enough to make it worth eating. This is the issue with the education system as it is now, people just expect the teachers to magically make everyone smarter despite the lack of resources or manpower to fulfill their job and then we get angry with the teachers rather then the system when our children fail to learn anything. And on the issue of the teacher building parts of the set, I wouldn't trust very many of the teenagers I know with a plasma cutter with all the sue happy parents running about.


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## Les (Feb 29, 2012)

Tekik, I'm only quoting you because you brought up a very important (to me) issue. The following is not directed at you, as I understand that you're not a teacher. It's just an "in general" rant directed at paranoid teachers who are perhaps lazy (not training) and afraid of their parents. 


Tekik said:


> And on the issue of the teacher building parts of the set, I wouldn't trust very many of the teenagers I know with a plasma cutter with all the sue happy parents running about.



Except that it's not even a teacher -- it's a parent of an ex-student (there are probably some liability issues with this issue being that he is most likely not formally employed with the school, and on paper, has no business being there. School insurance is not covering him.)

As for not trusting students... Well... For starters, schools have huge insurance policies that you can refer the sue-happy parents to, as well as an administration who will handle situations outside of your job description. The instructor shouldn't be involved in a case save cooperating with a potential site investigation. If you're doing the correct training and enforcing safe practices, you have nothing to worry about. The students and parents signed this waiver within the first week of school. If it were a huge problem, I don't think shop classes would still be around.

I guess my main point is, you can't just put a blanket "I don't trust you" statement on all the students. Some of them are very talented, but you will never know unless you take a chance. Schools are equal-opportunity, hands-on environments. They use the fly system, they handle $1,000's worth of computers at school, they probably even drive themselves. Teach them (the ones who want to*) to use some dang saws! Power tools speed up the maturing process (with proper supervision). I took a wood shop in 8th grade - and with some terrifyingly immature kids. No one got hurt. Set construction is a BIG part of technical theatre. Don't cause them to miss out on the opportunity. 

*Never make anyone use a tool if they don't want to. Let them learn another craft for a while. You *should* always maintain a level of respect (and a dose of fear) in power tools, which keeps you safe. When you get fearless, you get hurt. But if a student is dead-set against using a table saw, by all means take it as a hint that they are not suited for set construction yet - or ever. Keep the door open for them, though as they may change their mind. 

As far as I understand, JonasA is a HS Student, and actually shouldn't be confronting the parent. He should confront his teacher, who should then confront the parent.


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## gcpsoundlight (Feb 29, 2012)

Les said:


> *Never make anyone use a tool if they don't want to. Let them learn another craft for a while.


 and on this note, I have always maintaned that anyone in any aspect of theatre, if they are asked to do something they are not comfortable with, should say No. It doesnt matter if it is hanging a light, lifting something or even taping cables, if you dont feel comfortable you shouldnt do it.


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## shiben (Feb 29, 2012)

Tekik said:


> And on the issue of the teacher building parts of the set, I wouldn't trust very many of the teenagers I know with a plasma cutter with all the sue happy parents running about.




I would rather give them a plasma cutter than a lot of other things.


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## shiben (Feb 29, 2012)

Les said:


> Tekik, I'm only quoting you because you brought up a very important (to me) issue. The following is not directed at you, as I understand that you're not a teacher. It's just an "in general" rant directed at paranoid teachers who are perhaps lazy (not training) and afraid of their parents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes. Schools should teach ya how to do stuff, not let you watch how to do it. I remember in High School, we had a robotics class, but we couldnt machine any parts, just draw pictures of them. It sucked. Took half the fun out of making the thing. Went from being a crafts person to being an assembly line worker. Further, the only way to take "shop" was vocational training school instead of "college prep" classes. That was brilliant, especially since in school I would be using those shop skills more than being able to do calculus, but thats a different fight. But seriously. Let the kids use some tools. Believe it or not, most people will do a lot of things to avoid cutting their arm off.


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## Tekik (Feb 29, 2012)

The plasma cutter was just the first thing that came to mind. 
Now I am not trying to say that the students shouldnt build the set. I am saying if the teacher is concerned that the student(s) are not at a level of maturity to operate certin tools then he should handle those specific tasks himself. If he is too scared to let them run a chop saw then he needs to step back and look at his career decision. But if he is uncomfortable sending students up to grid to dead hang a sign above the stage he should do it. I think students should eventualy be invited to assist with these tasks at a point where they have shown that they are mature enough to be responsible. Also its not concern about the equipment but student safety, if a student falls through the roof and dies the teacher is likely to loose their job.
@Les dont worry about it  forums exist to discuss varying opinions.


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## Les (Mar 1, 2012)

Tekik said:


> @Les dont worry about it  forums exist to discuss varying opinions.



Thanks, Tekik. This is a fairly on-going issue, and you just happened to get hit in the crossfire. . On a different note, welcome to CB!!

I think we are in agreement on a lot of the points brought up in this thread. My thought is that it all comes down to the teacher being able to validate a student's capabilities based on their actions in and out of the department, then making an educated decision as to whether or not they are fit for the shop (or should they work on props, costume, etc a little longer?)
The validation by the teacher should be strictly case-by-case and not based on any prejudices (a kid got hurt last year, so no one is using tools this year -or- I know an adult who can do it better [So what! It's high school! This ain't finish carpentry here!]). 
I feel like anyone who has been teaching for more than a handful of years will be able to easily determine who has potential and who doesn't. Usually, the "good potential" are the kids who are staying late cleaning the shop, asking what else needs to be done after a long day, and showing general interest in the program and how shows go up.


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## Clifford (Mar 1, 2012)

_If possible, have a class, and make it mandatory for working the shows._

At our school, this helps us a lot. Our issue tends not to be numbers so much as being left to babysit a lot of students who need an elective or extra-curricular activity. These are the ones that don't have any particular interest in theatre and are often the most disruptive and least productive. We still make exceptions for some students if they cannot enroll in the class. As far as we're concerned, if they come up and ask to be part of the crew, they're showing enough interest and earnestly want to be part of the production.

Another tool we have is a checklist of activities and equipment that the students can do/use. In order to be able to operate anything, the student must demonstrate to a faculty member that they have been trained on it and understand how to operate it safely. They have it signed off and they can operate that in the future. Creating this set of skills helps to let new students know that it's an ongoing experience and that there are goals they will be expected to work toward. A good few of them will decide they are better uses of their time than real work and more learning after school.


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## addy2503 (Mar 1, 2012)

I am part of the tech/stage crew at my school, and we have a 'club' held by one of the staff at the school, & it's only people who go to the meetings that are allowed to be part of the tech/stage crew.


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## Gnara (Mar 1, 2012)

We do this at my school, where we have to be signed off for the saw, hammers, chisels, power drills...etc. 
Its a great idea, but the issue at my school is that several kids who get signed off end up going into bad habits with everything right after the signing. People tend to not use safety goggles when they should be used, drilling into trash cans, and swinging around hammers willy-nilly. If something like this is done, i do suggest every now and again redoing the whole signing off sheets or finding a way to enforce safety.


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## museav (Mar 1, 2012)

Tekik said:


> Now I am not trying to say that the students shouldnt build the set. I am saying if the teacher is concerned that the student(s) are not at a level of maturity to operate certin tools then he should handle those specific tasks himself. If he is too scared to let them run a chop saw then he needs to step back and look at his career decision. But if he is uncomfortable sending students up to grid to dead hang a sign above the stage he should do it. I think students should eventualy be invited to assist with these tasks at a point where they have shown that they are mature enough to be responsible. Also its not concern about the equipment but student safety, if a student falls through the roof and dies the teacher is likely to loose their job.


Good points, but as Les noted I think it is important to differentiate that the original comments were that the person involved is the father of an ex-student, not a teacher at the school or even the parent of a current student, and that the reason for excluding students is that they don't want kids bugging them, not that they had any safety concerns. While such a person's involvement and expertise should be valued and appreciated, their participation should be for the benefit of the students. And since they do not represent the school they should only be deciding what they do and maybe making recommendations to those responsible, not making decisions regarding or dictating student participation in relation to school or school sponsored activities.

Most schools have been offering various shop classes for years and probably have developed approaches to address most of not all of the related issues, there is likely no need to reinvent the wheel or reason to not take advantage of the effort already invested there.


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## Clifford (Mar 1, 2012)

Gnara said:


> We do this at my school, where we have to be signed off for the saw, hammers, chisels, power drills...etc.
> Its a great idea, but the issue at my school is that several kids who get signed off end up going into bad habits with everything right after the signing. People tend to not use safety goggles when they should be used, drilling into trash cans, and swinging around hammers willy-nilly. If something like this is done, i do suggest every now and again redoing the whole signing off sheets or finding a way to enforce safety.



That's exactly what we do, I forgot to mention in my post. Apart from the obvious fact that the students should be supervised to make sure they aren't doing things incorrectly, random checks on students don't hurt either. It keeps you up to speed with any problem students, and prevents the better students from getting complacent.


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## Gnara (Mar 1, 2012)

Clifford said:


> That's exactly what we do, I forgot to mention in my post. Apart from the obvious fact that the students should be supervised to make sure they aren't doing things incorrectly, random checks on students don't hurt either. It keeps you up to speed with any problem students, and prevents the better students from getting complacent.



With this, in case you dont already, i do suggest also that you do these checks with your Cat trained students. Again, several kids with my theater have gotten into the habbit of taking watter bottles up there and leaving them on top of storage cabinets and other things. Alot of our students done seem to grasp the seriousness of dropping things from the cats either. (So that you're not worrying or anything, i have brought up this issue among others to our TD)


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## Clifford (Mar 1, 2012)

I do sweeps of the FOH catwalk (the only one in our theatre) periodically during the run of a show. Since this is where our followspots are located and where all the FOH lights are making things toasty for the length of the show, I always want the ops to have bottled water available to them easily. But you're correct, they need to make sure they don't leave it somewhere it could conceivably leave the catwalk and fall on someone below.


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