# Instrument mics on a budget recommendations - live sound



## tk2k (Feb 23, 2012)

Hey all,

I'm at a college, we get about 100 instrument-mic events per year, and I've got a bit of a budget this year and want to improve our instrument mics. Our current inventory is filled with SM 58/7's as well as the cheap PG gear that's rented out. The college has a conservatory, and they're starting to do more shows in the campus center as an outreach program, and I need to meet their demands better, but on a pretty small budget. Having come from a more pro-sound background in new york last year, I'm looking for recommendations on budget gear. 

What I've got covered
vocals, guitar amps, drums minus overhead/cymbals

What I need to be able to do

Brass mics 
2 overhead drum mics
grand piano mics
violin
cello 

Now I don't ever need to run all of those simultaneously, so I'm looking to buy mics that are multi-use. Sometimes I've got 4 brass and nothing else, sometimes there's two violins and a drum kit, it's a very dynamic environment. 

Anyway, I was thinking of going with a few ATM350's for brass/strings, but I can't find any information on if they'd work on a piano, doesn't seem like it'd be a good chose for the bass section of the piano. 

In terms of overheads SM137's? I'd love to get another 81 but the price point again. Any other recommendations?


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## Footer (Feb 23, 2012)

AKG 414. Takes care of the piano and overheads. A 57 will work for brass, though the DPA 4099 will pretty much handle everything else from brass to strings. It is an instrument mounted mic that is very versitile. Many of the Jazz guys that come in really like that mic. For the cello either a DPA or you could go to the RE20. If you ever have an upright bass the RE20 or the newer RE27 is the way to go.

I do realize that the 414 is an expensive mic. However, its a real workhorse. What is your budget actually? A 414 could easily cover all your needs. The cheapest I would probably go is the 81. Anything else and you really are not going to be that happy with it. 

From the sounds of it you really just need some high quality condensers. Another one to look at is the KSM 132.


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## bishopthomas (Feb 23, 2012)

Kyle, although the OP didn't specify what "on a budget" means, I doubt any of the mics you listed would fit into that category. Hopefully I'm wrong, though, as they're all nice selections.

What's wrong with adding some sm57's to the inventory? That would take care of most anything. I like condensers for overheads and strings, but have found there really aren't a lot of decent sounding condenser mics for a "budget" price. I've been buying KM184's because they sound great, and just waiting until I can find them used (usually around $500). The lowest price condenser that I've found I like is the Sennheiser e614. The AT 4041 is pretty decent as well.


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## tk2k (Feb 23, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> Kyle, although the OP didn't specify what "on a budget" means, I doubt any of the mics you listed would fit into that category. Hopefully I'm wrong, though, as they're all nice selections.
> 
> What's wrong with adding some sm57's to the inventory? That would take care of most anything. I like condensers for overheads and strings, but have found there really aren't a lot of decent sounding condenser mics for a "budget" price. I've been buying KM184's because they sound great, and just waiting until I can find them used (usually around $500). The lowest price condenser that I've found I like is the Sennheiser e614. The AT 4041 is pretty decent as well.



Unfortunately you're completely correct. I've used the 414's before and love them. I also have an earthworks piano mic set across the street, but gear from the con cannot leave. As I said though the price point. The ones I was talking about are more like $280 than $1000....
The problem with a 57 is that it just doesn't sound that good on higher frequency brass, or anything with a high dynamic range, at least that's my experiences with them. We've got a good number of em and make targeted use, but the amount of ambient noise picked up is pretty high.


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## Footer (Feb 24, 2012)

tk2k said:


> Unfortunately you're completely correct. I've used the 414's before and love them. I also have an earthworks piano mic set across the street, but gear from the con cannot leave. As I said though the price point. The ones I was talking about are more like $280 than $1000....
> The problem with a 57 is that it just doesn't sound that good on higher frequency brass, or anything with a high dynamic range, at least that's my experiences with them. We've got a good number of em and make targeted use, but the amount of ambient noise picked up is pretty high.



If you can buy used... do. There are great mix deals on eBay and Craigslist. As things fall out of favor many people will offload mics. It takes a long tike to build up a good inventory. 



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## ToddCWF (Feb 24, 2012)

I've had good luck with the Audio Technica 4040 large diaphragm microphones. I have used them in all of the situations you describe. They work well and are less expensive ($300) than other mics in its class.


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## BNBSound (Feb 24, 2012)

Audio Technica Pro 135 is a pretty versatile mic. I've used them on toms for years and they're also ideal for brass. They're a small condenser with a built in clip and goose neck. In a pinch I've used them on strings and small guitar amps. You can clip them to a music stand in front of a player and take care of a lot of stuff out of sight.


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## TimmyP1955 (Mar 5, 2012)

I much prefer the Audix D4 to the 57. One has to buy them used to get a good price (about $100) but they are worth the extra (better sound, tighter pattern).

The AT Pro37 is a fine sounding SDC that sells for at most $150 and works for sure on hat, overheads, and vocal ensembles. I expect it will do a lot of other things as well.

I've heard some CAD and Superluxe mics in the 57's price range (or less) that I'd just as soon have as a 57.


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## Binski99 (Mar 10, 2012)

For overheads, piano, violin, and cello a condenser mic is probably going to be best. If you are looking for a large diaphragm condenser you might want to look at Kel Audio. Kel Audio Microphones - Be Your Own Sound I have heard great things about them and their not that expensive. For brass I would say a 57 is probably best budget mic. With some good EQ'ing they can sound great. A little warning...If you use large diaphragm condensers try to use large round base stands, when a tripod stand is up high with a large mic sometimes they like to tip. 


+1 on the AT Pro37, It's a great little mic for overheads.


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## pmolsonmus (Mar 11, 2012)

Can't disagree with any of the above posts, but I find myself reaching for my Rode NT5s (matched pair) for a lot of what you're describing and I own 414s and RE20s, and Senn 421s and several of the aforementioned AT varieties. They fit in your price range as well. 

There's a little bump in the highs on the Rodes, but I find that for sound reinforcement AND recording it helps those instruments sit in the mix. As always it depends on your pres. What are you running them through? A 57 through a good pre can sound amazing! 

Another trick I've learned is to strap 3 pzms on the lid of a closed piano. Don't ask me why it works, just try it in a reinforcement setting before you dismiss it quoting a 3:1 rule. I use the Crown 40ds at $400 each, but the person that taught me the trick was using the cheap Radio Shack versions (he's an audio engineer and said there is almost no difference in the electronics) He's also an expert at making things sound great regardless.

There is a Rode version that comes with an optional omni head, not sure of the model #.

YMMV

Phil


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## bishopthomas (Mar 14, 2012)

Good stuff there from Phil. I used to use a pair of PZM's a lot on piano myself. These days I'm dealing with house equipment and rentals (ie not mine) so I try not to tape to the lid. I do, however, tape to the frame and place a pair of 414's in a "gaff cradle." I want those DPA 4099 piano mics!


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## brubart (May 10, 2012)

Brass: Ribbon mics usually sound great on brass because the mics' high-frequency rolloff takes the edge off the sound. Check out Beyerdynamic M160, Cascade Fat Head II, Royer 121.
Drums overhead: Small-diaphragm cardioid condensers ... AKG 451 or similar, even the Behringer B5.
Grand piano mics: Bartlett Spark Mics taped to the underside of the raised lid, or Neumann KM184 over the bass and treble strings about 8 inches horizontally from the hammers.
Violin: Bartlett Fiddle Mic on the violin itself, or flat-response condenser mic overhead.
Cello: Bartlett Cello Mic on the instrument, or Shure KSM models about a foot from the bridge works well.


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