# Theatrical Paint vs. Hardware store paint



## gafftaper

Here's an easier question that has a wide variety of answers. 

What are the advantages and disadvantages of using Theatrical Paint vs. Hardware Store paint?

Standard QOTD rules apply, if you are a professional please wait 1 week before posting.


----------



## mjw56

As i have been told recently, Theatrical paint covers well, covers a lot, but doesn't last a long time. whereas hardware store paint, _can_ cover well, doesn't cover a whole lot, but lasts a really long time, longer than the existence of most of our sets. Sound right?


----------



## zmb

Theatrical paint would have higher quality ingredients and quality control?


----------



## natebish

depends on what you are doing. if you are painting setts for short term use use what ever is cheapest. yet if you are painting walls,floors, or anything perminant go for the best hardware store paint it will last longer and not look as bad after a long period of time.


----------



## Footer

natebish said:


> depends on what you are doing. if you are painting setts for short term use use what ever is cheapest. yet if you are painting walls,floors, or anything perminant go for the best hardware store paint it will last longer and not look as bad after a long period of time.


 
I know many a scenic artist who would argue that point and at 30 dollars a gallon scenic paint is never the cheapest. I would estimate that 99% of all sets that come out of professional scene shops that go on tour, installs, and go in rental stocks are painted with scenic paint. With the cost being so high, why do people use it at all? 

So, what is the difference between Rosco or Artist's Choice paint vs. Glidden or Behr? 

How does the choice of paint affect how the scenic artist paints?


----------



## natebish

Footer said:


> I would estimate that 99% of all sets that come out of professional scene shops that go on tour, installs, and go in rental stocks are painted with scenic paint.


i was talking about for what i am doing, which is highschool no budget theatre. alot of time when i need white,off white or black paint for sets i go to the recycling center where they give away paint that is still of good quality that was sent to them, it's not the greatest color since it's mixed but that gives you an idea of the budget i have.


----------



## Kelite

Here is a hint, kids-

If you were to make chocolate chip cookies at home, how would they be different from those at the school cafetorium?
(Besides being edible...)


----------



## zmb

The theatrical paint would be made by hand and not mass-produced (relative to hardware store paint) like your homemade cookies while the hardware store paint is mass produced with mainly machine processes. Right?


----------



## venuetech

Another hint
If you were to paint a drop at your shop with household latex paint, get it looking very nice. then carefully fold that drop and transport it to the theatre and hang it. what would be the problem?


----------



## natebish

it wouldn't look right because you probably painted it under florecent light. so under stage lights the color tone would be different. that and the latex would probably crack when you fold it.


----------



## DuckJordan

I've also been told that there is more color pigment in stage paints compared to Hardware store paints. I guess this would mean its less likely to fade from exposure to UV.


----------



## Kelite

DuckJordan said:


> I've also been told that there is more color pigment in stage paints compared to Hardware store paints. I guess this would mean its less likely to fade from exposure to UV.


 
Ahhhh.................


SO- if you were making chocolate chip cookies at home, would you add alot more of them, more than the nice blue-haired lunch ladies do?

(This really is relavant, I just want the light bulb to go on here...)


----------



## DuckJordan

Kelite said:


> Ahhhh.................
> 
> 
> SO- if you were making chocolate chip cookies at home, would you add alot more of them, more than the nice blue-haired lunch ladies do?
> 
> (This really is relavant, I just want the light bulb to go on here...)


 
heck no, i don't like chocolate chips, but you could easily add some dilution solution such as water to extend how much the paint can cover.


----------



## Cashwalker

SO, if a gallon of scenic paint weighs the same as a duck then I must be painting a witch?

Serious answers:
Scenic paint may also come with the fire retardants that are required in most real theatrical venues?

If you use Roscoe paint with Roscoe gels, then the colors will match better?


----------



## venuetech

Cashwalker said:


> Scenic paint may also come with the fire retardants that are required in most real theatrical venues?


 
No, best to apply fire retardant before you start painting. following manufactures instructions.


----------



## HeadTech

natebish said:


> i was talking about for what i am doing, which is highschool no budget theatre. alot of time when i need white,off white or black paint for sets i go to the recycling center where they give away paint that is still of good quality that was sent to them, it's not the greatest color since it's mixed but that gives you an idea of the budget i have.


 
That's exactly what we do at our theatre too. And our director is a bit impulsive when buying paint, so we have tons of it now. but we can always get the color we need!


----------



## Kelite

DuckJordan said:


> heck no, i don't like chocolate chips, but you could easily add some dilution solution such as water to extend how much the paint can cover.


 
This is exactly on track with this topic. My analogy (chocolate chip cookies) was adding more of something to the mix. DuckJordan's approach mentioned thinning the product for coverage reasons. The big question is this- what is it (a one word answer is all we're lookin' for here...) that differentiates the scenic paint from the Home Despot paint?


----------



## Theresa

The type or quantity of pigment?


----------



## natebish

is said one word answer price??


----------



## MarshallPope

Is the one word quality?

Also, re:the folding mentioned above, hardware store paint can tend to stick to itself when folded. I suspect that that could be a difference?


----------



## sk8rsdad

Maybe there's a clue in this video, or maybe not.


----------



## erosing

Although, not answering the question, I would like to state that fire retardant is easier to handle, in my experience, when using theatrical paint. For example, Rosco has retardant that is pre-botted to match up with speciic paint sizes. This added simplicity, to me, makes that pair very worth it. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## venuetech

Arez said:


> Rosco has retardant that is pre-botted to match up with speciic paint sizes. This added simplicity, to me, makes that pair very worth it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That would be following the manufactures instructions.


----------



## mjw56

Based on the clue from kelite's post. would the difference be the solvent in the paint? making it able to be cut or, extended if you will, with water?


----------



## TheaterMarine

Kelite said:


> This is exactly on track with this topic. My analogy (chocolate chip cookies) was adding more of something to the mix. DuckJordan's approach mentioned thinning the product for coverage reasons. The big question is this- what is it (a one word answer is all we're lookin' for here...) that differentiates the scenic paint from the Home Despot paint?



Is it that you can mix Rosco paint to what color you need by adding other colors? Rosco paints can be mixed to almost any color. Also Rosco paints are transparent (except for White and White White) so it is much easier to make clear glazes out of them compared to store bought latex paint. The store bought paint has opacifiers in it to helps you cover your hose in less coats, but doesn't do as well with glazes and thin coats that are used in scenic painting. This also allows for painting in layers.
A disadvantage of the Rosco paint is that it's really expensive, especially if you buy a whole set of the paints. Another disadvantage is that any water gets into the can of paint it will cause the whole can to go bad really fast.
As for choice of paints, I know that casein (the Rosco stuff) washes off a lot easier than latex. It feels a lot different painting with latex than casein. So it would be a what kind of look do you want, which fits into your budget better, and which you are more comfortable painting with.


----------



## Footer

TheaterMarine said:


> A disadvantage of the Rosco paint is that it's really expensive, especially if you buy a whole set of the paints. Another disadvantage is that any water gets into the can of paint it will cause the whole can to go bad really fast.
> As for choice of paints, I know that casein (the Rosco stuff) washes off a lot easier than latex. It feels a lot different painting with latex than casein. So it would be a what kind of look do you want, which fits into your budget better, and which you are more comfortable painting with.



Rosco and Artist's Choice are not casein (milk) based paint. 

So, what kind of paint is it then? What kind of paint is hardware store paint? Why does it matter?


----------



## mjw56

"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]This concentrated casein scene paint is formulated..."

Right from Rosco's website referring to the Iddings Deep Colors paint. 

Rosco US : Scenic : Iddings Deep Colors

The Rosco Off-Broadway paints are Vinyl Acrylic. Rosco states that adding more than 2 parts water to either may reduce binder strength.

I should note rosco does say that its an organic soy protein in the casein.
[/FONT]


----------



## erosing

venuetech said:


> That would be following the manufactures instructions.


 
Simple enough that I don't have to worry about someone else doing it wrong. One less thing to bother myself with is always good. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## gafftaper

As I said in the original question there are MANY differences. Here's another fact to consider: 
You go to Lowes and buy the blackest color they sell in their house brand of paint. Next you decide to throw a little white into it to create a nice dark gray. Guess what, it develops a slightly blue look. What's up with that?


----------



## Tex

This is not the answer, but for some scenic paints there are no hardware store equivalents.
Roscoe Tough Prime for instance...


----------



## DuckJordan

gafftaper said:


> As I said in the original question there are MANY differences. Here's another fact to consider:
> You go to Lowes and buy the blackest color they sell in their house brand of paint. Next you decide to throw a little white into it to create a nice dark gray. Guess what, it develops a slightly blue look. What's up with that?


 

This is because they use a really saturated Blue to create The "Black" effect, its much easier to find blue than a true black color.


----------



## JChenault

Well
If you go to the right hardeware store ( Home - Mutual Hardware ) The answer is 'None'


----------



## venuetech

Of the three major components of paint there has been much discussion of pigment and some discussion of the vehicle. but we have barely touched upon the third _ _ _ _ _ _.
perhaps...


----------



## Kelite

Our interaction here at the 'Booth makes the time spent worth every minute- I've had college classes I've enjoyed, but the atmosphere here is the best!


----------



## BrianWolfe

I assume you are referring to the binder. In my experience both theatrical paint and latex house paint now use an acrylic resin binder. For me the main difference between the two is the availability and consistency of the pigment, particularly and highly saturated colors which are often required for theatrical painting.


----------



## derekleffew

Kelite said:


> ...The big question is this- what is it (a one word answer is all we're lookin' for here...) that differentiates the scenic paint from the Home Despot paint?


Does the one word start with an "s" and end with an "n"?


----------



## BrianWolfe

Saturation of the pigment is what allows for the highly saturated colors I was referring to.


----------



## venuetech

The primary task that most paint is designed for, is to protect a solid surface from various environmental elements. A house painter's job is to apply a consistent thickness of liquid product over a large area to form a protective coating. The binder is going to contain various additive compounds Tailor made to the task at hand. (think interior/exterior, primer or topcoat, gloss/flat) the pigmentation is a secondary task, not necessary for the task of protection but it does make the end product look better. Imperfections in the application allow the environment to damage the base surface over time. so multiple coats and/or a final sealing coat may or may-not be needed to achieve the desired protection level.
In the end what you have is a whole lot of binder with a relatively small amount of pigment.

The task that scenic paint has does not require the heavy protective additives in the binder. The primary purpose is to satisfy the human eye, not the unforgiving environment.
it requires a high performance, lightweight, flexible binder to hold the pigment. It has a much higher ratio of pigment to binder.


So what happens when you unfold a drop painted with latex?..
Well when you folded it you compressed or stretched the binder. Things are not going to return to the same place. You will see large fold marks and puckers across the drop, You will have a very difficult time making the drop hang flat. Yes you can do this once with very thin latex but the drop will not behave in the same manner as a scenic paint drop.


----------



## Kelite

venuetech said:


> It has a much higher ratio of pigment to binder.


 
Having spent valuable time with John Saari, owner of Sculptural Arts Coating Inc., the benefits of adequately saturated paint became pretty evident during our visit. Saturation (as Derek so aptly hinted) is key. Foam Coatings, Clear coats, Primers, Saturated Paints, Scenic Brushes by Sculptural Arts Coating, Inc.


----------



## JBrennan

I'm not sure if this was already posted in thread but I came across this article a few days ago. Either through CB or as an email from Rosco, can't remember. 
Anyway, seemed appropriate. And according to the fine folks at rosco, it's all about the pigment. Makes sense to me. 

The Power of the Pigment : : Rosco Spectrum


----------



## JChenault

venuetech did a good job of explaining what the binder in latex is and what it does. Some additional things that the lack of binder in Scene paint does for us.

The reflective quality of scene paint is better than latex. This flatter look means that any imperfections in the surface do not show up as much. If you hinge two flats together and put a dutchman over them - with Latex you will usually see the hinges. With scene paint you will usually not see it.

Scene paint can be thinned down quite far and still be useful. You can get a very transparent look with scene paint. Not so with latex.

(as mentioned by venutech) Scene paint is more flexible that hardware store paint, so drops painted with hardware store will hold wrinkles, flake off, etc.

Scene paint is designed to be mixed in the shop, not in the hardware store. You have a set of colors that you combine to get the color you want. With Latex you go to the store, take a gallon or so of paint, and add a tinting agent to the base color. 

The base color in latex is usually white. This makes it virtually impossible to get really deep intense colors.

Per gallon, Scene paint costs more for the amount of area you can cover. It is usually harder to get than Latex from the home depot. 

(I've been waiting all week to be able to put my two cents in )


----------



## gafftaper

Finally back to my hint above about black paint from the hardware store turning blue. Scenic paint uses true pigments where hardware store uses a mix of pigments. If you buy black scenic paint it's going to be made from all black pigment. The hardware stores often cheat and use a lot of very dark blue both in the base and in the pigment. If you are buying at the hardware store ask them what the recipe is for the color you want to buy. The black may be 30 squirts of black or it may be 15 black and 15 blue. If all you want to do is use the base color then a little blue is no big deal. BUT if you want to mix in a little white be careful. 

In general I use mostly hardware store paint. It's just so expensive to use the theater paint. I have a painter who donates his spare white-ish paint to me. I do buy the theater paint to tint my white paint whatever color I'm looking for. It generally works but you can still get into trouble with odd colors of pigment in the hardware store paint.


----------



## Dover

Most big box hardware stores sell a premixed flat black that is an actual black paint and will tint correctly. Often times they put it next to the primer, you just have to go look for it.


----------



## WooferHound

It's interesting that in the hardware store, if you want Black, they will mix Black into a White base.


----------



## venuetech

way back in high school we did not buy scenic paint in a can, we bought scenic pigment in 1lb paper bags. Then mixed this powered pigment into a thinned white glue. there was a hot plate/glue-pot there for working with casein (powdered) but we never used it. (it had a been well used in past years) We also used a lot of the "newer" water based paints that had recently come into common use.


----------

