# Twelve Dancing Princesses



## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

We are here in tech class and need to design a set for The Twelve Dancing Princesses.
Anyone have any good ideas on what to use?
We need to make a throne, three beds, trees, etc.
What should we use to make them?


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## sk8rsdad (Feb 16, 2011)

I am waffling between a snarky answer like "make them out of macaroni and white glue" or a more pragmatic answer like "do your own homework". 

How about you come up with something that would suggest you have given the matter some thought and then post here for some feedback? As your questions are currently phrased, there is nothing to indicate that you have read the script or developed any sense of the requirements for the production.

What period is the play set in?
When was it written and what was influencing the author at the time?
What vision does the rest of the design team have for this production?


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

After you shove it, think about this.
ControlBooth is a great resource for theatre students doing their homework. You have absolutely no room to talk "sk8rsdad" considering you don't know how serious we are about theatre. I bet you couldn't beat some of our set designs OR shows for that matter.
Make that with your macaroni and white glue.


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

& At that matter, you suck at your job for disrespecting us.


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## jstroming (Feb 16, 2011)

Well nothing beats buying tables already made depending on the period your show takes place in and budget. I mean who wants to go through all that trouble sawing, nailing, staining etc? Tell that to your tech teacher, probably the not the answer he wants to hear though LOL.

You could also hitup a prop place (if there any near you) as all of those things are pretty common items for prop houses. I'm lucky to live in NYC where we have a TON of prop houses so maybe they're not too common in othe rparts of the country, but you may find one or 2 within driving distance for you.

As far as the tree, I once bought one at a home and garden center, then grew and trimmed it as needed it outside the theater! Everyone thought it was the most real looking tree they had ever seen hahaha.

PS: I heard sk8rsdad was starring in your production of 12 dancing princesses?...Just Kidding! Haha


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

I like you.


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## Sir (Feb 16, 2011)

i like pie, with hashbrowns!!! and i luv u guys, no lie! :3


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

Boyfriend<3


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## epimetheus (Feb 16, 2011)

carlyandrachel said:


> After you shove it, think about this.
> ControlBooth is a great resource for theatre students doing their homework. You have absolutely no room to talk "sk8rsdad" considering you don't know how serious we are about theatre. I bet you couldn't beat some of our set designs OR shows for that matter.
> Make that with your macaroni and white glue.


 
While ControlBooth is a great resource for theater students doing homework, we do not do your homework for you. A better way to phrase your question might have been to suggest some ideas and ask for critique/comments. sk8rsdad did nothing other than try to help you, and all you do is attack him because you don't get the answer you want to hear? Not a very good way to attract help from others.

This is an educational forum and we're eager to help students out, but please try to be professional, or at least polite.


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## What Rigger? (Feb 16, 2011)

Hey, I'll agree with epimetheus (and others):

Sk8rsdad was asking you legit questions. Stop being rude when people ask standard questions, and try to help you do things yourself (like an adult).

We're all here to help. Several of us here (including me) are Broadway/Hollywood/Vegas level professionals who would love to be of assistance.

But if you show up, brand new, and start talking smack we will absolutely eat your lunch. 

I know from personal experience, because I once held the title of King Jerk around here when I first showed up. Derek and Gaff schooled me, as they should have, AND they (and DVS Dave) let me stay. Life has been all the better for me since then. "Be cool, Yolanda, be cool."


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## dvsDave (Feb 16, 2011)

Okay, I'm stepping in on this conversation. 

carlyandrachel, first let me welcome you to ControlBooth. Second, let me make sure that you are aware of our rules on CB.

Here is our Mission Statement and Core Values.

Mission Statement

> To provide a venue for discussion, information exchange, and technical advice, related to technical theatre, in a casual and fun atmosphere that fosters friendships among its membership.



Core Values

> The cornerstone of our community is mutual respect between members. We pride ourselves in having a mature, civil, yet fun atmosphere where members are able to debate their differing opinions without resorting to flame wars. Our community enthusiastically welcomes new members, and we are always eager to offer helpful advice to both the novice and seasoned veteran alike.




So, in light of this, sk8ersdad is correct. We are not here to do your homework for you, but we are more than happy to help you firm up ideas for your set and lighting design. We just ask that you do your due diligence first. Coming onto CB, and throwing around statements about the quality of your venue vs. someone else's venue that you haven't even seen isn't going to get you a whole lot of respect out of the gate. 

Settle down, and think about what sk8ersdad actually said. He was trying to point you in the right direction to show you how to think about what what sort of artistic vision you want to have for this show. I've seen Shakespeare's _Taming of the Shrew_ two times. One was set in traditional period costume and traditional sets, and another was done as if it took place in space. So, before you ask about procuring sets and props, you need to answer the questions that sk8ersdad brought up.

ControlBooth is fortunate enough to have many professionals for the top venues in the world donate their time to help out on CB, because this is a friendly atmosphere where we can have discussions and help out those who need it. Please remember that no one here is paid to answer your questions, so how you present yourself online makes a HUGE impact on the level of help you receive.


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## sk8rsdad (Feb 16, 2011)

carlyandrachel said:


> After you shove it, think about this.
> ControlBooth is a great resource for theatre students doing their homework. You have absolutely no room to talk "sk8rsdad" considering you don't know how serious we are about theatre. I bet you couldn't beat some of our set designs OR shows for that matter.
> Make that with your macaroni and white glue.


 
My apologies for coming off as offensive. It was not my intention. Since you found CB, signed up, and admit to being a theatre student I assume you are very serious. It is a career choice I did not make, opting instead for an engineering career and doing theatre for the love of it. For me, theatre is a cooperative endeavour rather than a competitive one so I would not be inclined to want to beat your designs or shows. I WOULD be inclined to learn from them and take away new ideas.

I think I DO have room to talk. Perhaps more important, I make room to listen and to reflect on what I hear and read before responding. It's a good skill to learn.


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## gafftaper (Feb 16, 2011)

Hello Carly and Rachel. Think of posting on CB like going to a teacher after class for some extra advice. You have the attention of a lot of professionals who do theater at all different levels here. In this thread you've had a response from a volunteer who has been doing theater probably longer than you've been alive, a guy who if he wanted could make you fly hundreds of feet in the air, and now myself college faculty and theater technician. Other pros have no doubt read your post and not posted because of your attitude. We hang out here to help and to teach. We don't hang out here to do your homework for you. 

So lets start over. Here are the basic questions that EVERY designer from high school to Broadway thinks about. What is the play about? What locations does it require? Are there specific things that have to be in those locations (you mentioned a throne for example). Is this a classroom exercise or are you really building the set? What is the budget? What is your artistic vision for what the show should look like? What is the emotional reaction you are trying to draw out of the audience? 

Tell us more about the show. Tell us about your ideas for the design. Tell us where you get stuck and we will help solve your problems.


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh my goodness. In no way were we asking for you to do our homework as we were simply asking for ideas. This is an in class assignment for Technical Theatre and we were given a fairy tale to "design a set" for. I am new to Tech, I am an actress. In fact, our school is competing against others and I am casted as Izzy in Rabbit Hole.
If it helps, I will rephrase what I was asking for. We are looking for legit ways to make a throne, trees, and beds. We were thinking of just straight building it out of plywood but we could use extra ideas.

And the only reason why we got so defensive towards sk8rdad is because he pretty much "dissed" us on our age range by saying "make it out of macoroni and white glue"
Indeed we are young, I am only a junior in High School, but you have to start somewhere to get where we are all going. And I would greatly respect that those comments be kept to themselves.

Now, we promise to be professionals as long as what we have asked for in respect. Thank you.


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## carlyandrachel (Feb 16, 2011)

gafftaper said:


> Hello Carly and Rachel. Think of posting on CB like going to a teacher after class for some extra advice. You have the attention of a lot of professionals who do theater at all different levels here. In this thread you've had a response from a volunteer who has been doing theater probably longer than you've been alive, a guy who if he wanted could make you fly hundreds of feet in the air, and now myself college faculty and theater technician. Other pros have no doubt read your post and not posted because of your attitude. We hang out here to help and to teach. We don't hang out here to do your homework for you.
> 
> So lets start over. Here are the basic questions that EVERY designer from high school to Broadway thinks about. What is the play about? What locations does it require? Are there specific things that have to be in those locations (you mentioned a throne for example). Is this a classroom exercise or are you really building the set? What is the budget? What is your artistic vision for what the show should look like? What is the emotional reaction you are trying to draw out of the audience?
> 
> Tell us more about the show. Tell us about your ideas for the design. Tell us where you get stuck and we will help solve your problems.


 
The basics of the story is that its about a king trying to figure out why he locks his daughters up at night and they wake up with worn shoes from dancing. He makes people sit around and watch them through the night and if they don't give him an answer, they get killed.
We were thinking of the set design being kinda, parallel universes if that makes sense. The main place they are is in the main room where the throne is. And when they dance, it is the same room, but darker.


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## sk8rsdad (Feb 16, 2011)

Ok. Let's assume limited budget, stereotypical fairy tale castle kind of like these from a past production of _The Dragonslayers_ by Bruce Covillle. Sorry for the low resolution but zoom in for a better look:




Construction is plywood, framing timber, fence post caps, some red velour fabric some braided cord, and yes, macaroni and white glue for some of the trim. Total cost about $100 for the pair of them. Maybe less if you can scrounge bits and pieces from past productions.

Another option is to set it in contemporary times in the house of some affluent business tycoon, in which case the throne room could be an opulent den or office. You may be able to borrow the set from the principal's office. Having no familiarity with the script, I cannot comment on what sort of twist that would put on the story or whether it even fits, but it might be fun. Heck, set it in a boarding school and really rip on the principal.


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## What Rigger? (Feb 17, 2011)

These might help get ya started in the right direction. I can't vouch for it being 100 percent correct, but most of it matches my experience back in the day. I'm a rigger....it's late...whaddya want?
How to Build a Set for Stage Design | eHow.com

Tips for Theater Set Design: Creative and Affordable Ideas to Make Your Drama Stage Look Great


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## jwl868 (Feb 17, 2011)

Another resource that is overlooked these days is your local library. With regional inter-lending agreements, you may have a great deal of information close at hand. Also, check the wiki Collaborative Article "theatre books" (but it’s a daunting list.) I’ve used The Stagecraft Handbook by Daniel Ionazzi. And I think the standard is The Backstage Handbook: An Illustrated Almanac of Technical Information by Paul Carter.



Joe


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 17, 2011)

sk8rsdad said:


> My apologies for coming off as offensive. It was not my intention. <snip>
> 
> I think I DO have room to talk. Perhaps more important, I make room to listen and to reflect on what I hear and read before responding. It's a good skill to learn.


 

carlyandrachel said:


> And the only reason why we got so defensive towards sk8rdad is because he pretty much "dissed" us on our age range by saying "make it out of macoroni and white glue"
> Indeed we are young, I am only a junior in High School, but you have to start somewhere to get where we are all going. And I would greatly respect that those comments be kept to themselves.
> 
> Now, we promise to be professionals as long as what we have asked for in respect. Thank you.


 
I would like to make another suggestion for improving on your professionalism, and that is how you say that you are sorry. You may notice that sk8rsdad apologized to you, he admitted fault unconditionally. When you look at your apology, you still placed blame instead of looking at your own actions. Even if someone "disses" you, you have the choice in how to respond. If you respond incorrectly, that is no ones fault but your own, so you need to own up to it. As was his original post, he didn't say to use "macaronni and white glue" but suggested that he considered using a snarky remark. Instead, he chose to mention that he had this impulse, but then chose to start directing you in how to improve yourselves anyway. Professionalism is not conditional. If you want to succeed, you maintain professionalism, especially in adversity (you will have people treat you much worse in this business, right or wrong, that's the way it is).

Sir, it is admirable that you chose to join in order to defend your lady(ies), however, I feel that you have a bit to learn about chivalry in your own right. Those who know me, also know that I have quite a bit of experience in this as well.

If you choose, you may find quite a bit about set/props construction techniques throughout the forum and wiki. Since the New Member board is generally for introducing yourself and you have had a rough start, let's start fresh. I suggest that you start a new thread in the Scenery, Props, and Rigging forum where you will get more exposure to your questions and start showing some of the professionalism that you promise. I would suggest that you think about the specifics that you need help with as well as describe the scope of your project and techniques that you are considering.

If you need help phrasing your questions or how to search the forums, give me a PM and I'll be glad to help.


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## DuckJordan (Feb 18, 2011)

Another thing to consider is even if you feel offended, remember being polite and courteous is always, and i can't stress this enough, ALWAYS better. That said I would suggest reading a few books in your local library about set design. The backstage handbook probably won't help you as much as its more of a reference tool than an explanation.


On the note of professionalism. I, myself, have had issues of my own as either coming off rude or disrespectful. This would be one of the times that a polite private message of explaining how it offended you would have been a much better action.

As for building and designing at this point we don't know enough about your production as far as if its going to be produced if its a class only project/ Open viewing, or what ever your teacher is asking for. Like many have said we are not here to do your homework and at this point any suggestion we could make about your design or what you should do is really doing your homework for you.

Another good resource is your teacher, Ask them about what books they would recommend reading in order to get a better grasp on how to build the set.

Some questions that I have thought for you is:

1. How long does/do the pieces need to last?
2. How much weight does it need to support?
3. How mobile does it need to be?
4. What is your budget?
5. Who is making the final decisions on what goes in?
6. What tools do you have access to/ know how to use?


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