# Allen and Heath GL2200



## hughesc (Aug 4, 2005)

I was wondering if anyone knew of a way of making the aux faders control the levels of the TLR 1/4" aux outs. I found out that the aux faders by default control the XLR aux outs, but as most of our booth is wired for 1/4", being able to use the faders instead of the master dials would be helpful. Our mixer is a 24 channel Allen and Heath GL 2200.


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## mbenonis (Aug 4, 2005)

I think you're confusing the audio groups with the auxiliary outputs. While they may provide similar functionality, they do have different purposes and function slightly differently. Here's a quick rundown:

An audio group is designed to group a number of different inputs together and provide a master control for just these inputs. An example of this would be the use of groups 1&2 for your wireless mic inputs. On your console (and on most consoles), a direct output from the group is provided via an XLR connector, and are controlled by a linear fader. Usually, you cannot adjust the amount of signal sent from a channel to a group.

An auxiliary output is used to provide signal to effects processors, stage monitors (when monitors are mixed from FOH), and other devices which might need a mix (often very) different from that of the main mix. On many consoles (including the GL2200), aux outs are provided by a TRS connector and are controlled by a pot (knob) on the side of the console. You can control the amount of signal sent from a channel to an aux.

For reference, a matrix is similar to an aux for master controls. A matrix usually derives its signal from the audio groups and the main mix, with a variable send from each of these busses.


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## AVGuyAndy (Aug 4, 2005)

> most of our booth is wired for 1/4"



Solution


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## Foxinabox10 (Aug 4, 2005)

Since the booth is wired for 1/4", you would want the FXLR to FTRS Barrel Adaptor that is on the site, not the FXLR to MTRS Barrel Adaptor, since cables are male to male of TRS, not male to female.


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## AVGuyAndy (Aug 4, 2005)

He didn't specify exactly how his "booth is wired for 1/4." So, telling him he needs a male to female adaptor, may not be what he really need.s My post hinted towards the right idea, hoping that he would figure it out for himself. 


> cables are male to male of TRS, not male to female.



You need to get out more, I've seen plenty of male to female TRS and TS cables.


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## jumpjet (Aug 4, 2005)

Actually, on the GL2200, i believe there are little blue switches that you need a pen or something to press down that switch control of the auxes to the group faders. Which is I think what you are asking for. Then just run the auxes out of groups 1-4.


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## jumpjet (Aug 4, 2005)

Actually, on the GL2200, i believe there are little blue switches that you need a pen or something to press down that switch control of the auxes to the group faders. Which is I think what you are asking for. Then just run the auxes out of groups 1-4.


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## Foxinabox10 (Aug 4, 2005)

How often do you see a 1/4" male jack coming out of a sound board though? If it plugs into a sound board and it's TRS, it's a male connector on a cable.


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## Andy_Leviss (Aug 4, 2005)

Not exactly. The GRP/Aux Reverse switches on the GL2200 swap the outputs and faders, not just the faders. In other words, pressing that switch would route audio sent to the Aux 1 bus from each channel to the fader labeled Group 1, and then to the XLR output labeled Group 1, while audio sent to the group 1 bus would go through the rotary pot labeled Aux 1 and it's associated TRS output.

There's no way to switch the faders independently of the outputs jacks.


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## jumpjet (Aug 5, 2005)

Yeah, but he has 1/4" outputs on the back of his board, and he is saying that a signal is not coming out of them when he uses faders. 1/4" should be group outs, if the GL2200 has them, if not, then the grp/aux switch should change the outputs to the group outs.... 

^^That was confusing and arbitrary since I don't totally understand his question.^^

Let me rephrase:

Hey! See if that button makes the board do what you want when you press it. If not, never mind, I don't understand your question.


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## Andy_Leviss (Aug 5, 2005)

Well, part of the confusion is an indiscriminate interchanging of the terms aux where in some places he means group. To clear it up, let's eliminate those terms altogether.

There are master dials on the output that are permanently linked to 1/4" TRS (there's no such thing as 1/4" TLR; TRS stands for Tip, Ring, Sleeve). There are also master faders that are permanently linked to XLR outputs.

He asked if there's any way to make the faders control what comes out of the TRS outputs. The answer is no.

You can switch what bus feeds the dials vs the faders with those little blue switches. Normally, the aux busses, which are controlled by the dials on each channel strip, feed the dials/TRS outputs, and the group busses, which are controlled by the group assign switches and the channel level fader for each channel, feed the faders/XLR outputs. 

Pressing the blue button for each pair of groups/auxes will switch these so that the aux busses feed the faders and XLR outputs, and the group busses feed the dials.

The faders, however, are permanently linked to the XLR outputs, and the dials are permanently linked to the TRS outputs. 

If you're any good at making sense out of block diagrams, download the diagram for the 2200 from A&H's website. Near the center is a vertical dotted line with a black square in the middle of it, labeled "GROUP/AUX REVERSE". If you follow that dotted line, you'll see it pass through a pair of DPST switches (just look at the top half of the diagram, the mono channel, to keep things simple). 

It's clear on the diagram that these switches come _before_ the output faders/dials, not after, so the switches don't affect the routing of those output controls to output jacks; those are hard-wired.


> 1/4" should be group outs, if the GL2200 has them, if not, then the grp/aux switch should change the outputs to the group outs....



No, this is incorrect. By default as shipped from the factory (ie, in typical FOH configuration), the TRS jacks are aux outs, and the XLR jacks are group outs. The group/aux reverse switch reverses these, BUT it reverses the controls feeding these outputs, too; the faders always stay with the XLRs, the pots with the TRSs. The only thing you can change is what feeds those pots/faders.

--Andy


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## jumpjet (Aug 5, 2005)

Ok, then I am thinking of a different A&H, with 1-4 aux outs being xlr, and 5-8 being trs.


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## TassieBogan (Aug 29, 2005)

The "little blue button" as you so eloquently put it, will swap the aux master knobs with the Group Master faders. 

make sure you keep in mind that it will also swap the outputs

Allen and Heath ripped that one of someof my favorite midas desks.


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## blademaster (Oct 26, 2005)

right, at my church i actually work with this same board except at the 40 ch range. and sadly as to date i have been unable to find a way to get it to work any other way. i know that they have a quite detailed diagram of it that has some option of tweaking the way it works, but the only way that i've done is using a adapter from the xlr's to 1/4"


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## blademaster (Oct 26, 2005)

Andy_Leviss said:


> The faders, however, are permanently linked to the XLR outputs, and the dials are permanently linked to the TRS outputs.



I would personally like to think that nothing is permanently one way or another


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## jkowtko (Oct 2, 2007)

Can you tell me the weaknesses, or the weakest points, of the GL2200? 

I'm looking at a GL2200 or GL2400 upgrade from our Mackie boards, to give me more channels, more faders, more outputs, and hopefully less floor noise (the Mackie CFX is okay but the main outs are a bit noisy). I also won't mind the tone generator and aux/group switching, which I think will come in handy.

Overall it seems like A&H has a pretty solid reputation for quality and versatile equipment. I can probably get a GL2200 in the close to $1k range, while a GL2400 will cost close to $2k, so I'd prefer to go with a GL2200 if there are no major drawbacks. 

The drawbacks of the GL2200 (vs the GL2400) that I know of are:

- external power supply (GL2400 is internal up to 32 channels)
- mono cannot be independetly assigned (GL2400 can patch off of aux6)
- GL2200 does not have both TRX and XLR on aux & group outs (GL2400 does)
- GL2200 has super-light touch faders (GL2400 has "normal" touch)

and none of these would turn me away.

Is there anything else important that I should know about the GL2200?

Thanks. John


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## avkid (Oct 2, 2007)

An external power supply is not a bad thing.


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## fhs-tech (Oct 2, 2007)

The 2200 has an OPTIONAL external power supply. I have one at the HS I work at and absolutely love the board. There is an internal power supply which makes set up a breeze. The light touch faders might be the only slight draw back due to the fact the faders move with the slightest accidental touch. Overall I love this board and would recommend it to anyone.


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## Hughesie (Oct 2, 2007)

look i have worked a production with this desk solo and i think it's a great desk

i can't really compare it to many desks but i can compare it with the bottem of the scale mackie 1604vlz
and right up to a crest x8 desk.

i would say that after using the desk for a little while with the internal power supply i found a slight amount of noise through some of the sources that i required more gain for, also i don't like running a power lead to the desk right next to some inputs, just something about xlr metal plugs and power doesn't seem quite right. the external power supply ONLY sends what the desk needs and doesn't send 240v to the desk then have 1/2 of it grounded. after saying this i can imagine why the in built power would be better because the external power supply was very heavy.

also the fader movement, or ease of movement was annoying when i had the script resting on the desk and it slid down on the faders.

summary from my perspective

allen and heath, great brand name with great quality products and the 2200 was a great desk to work with and had no major drop backs 

except it had no noise generator but you could just use a cd or ipod playing a test tone or something, the crest i worked on had a noise generator and my view is, it either has one option (white noise) or it takes up too much space (white noise nob, where to assign it, pink, sine wave, adjust sine wave)


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## museav (Oct 2, 2007)

jkowtko said:


> Is there anything else important that I should know about the GL2200?


How about that the GL2200 is no longer in production?

I definitely would not look at an external power supply as a negative, that's standard for large format consoles and in critical applications you find dual power supplies with auto switchover.


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## Hughesie (Oct 2, 2007)

museav said:


> How about that the GL2200 is no longer in production?
> 
> I definitely would not look at an external power supply as a negative, that's standard for large format consoles and in critical applications you find dual power supplies with auto switchover.



the one i worked with was strange, it came with two psu's but you could not connect both at the same time

which compared to the crest i worked on that had two psu's and they connected via daisy chain

psu1->psu2>desk

problem with that was it the second one failed it would be useless anyway
the point is you would have to change the cable in the back of the desk to switch them over.


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## jkowtko (Oct 3, 2007)

Hughesie89 said:


> i would say that after using the desk for a little while with the internal power supply i found a slight amount of noise through some of the sources that i required more gain for, also i don't like running a power lead to the desk right next to some inputs, just something about xlr metal plugs and power doesn't seem quite right. the external power supply ONLY sends what the desk needs and doesn't send 240v to the desk then have 1/2 of it grounded. after saying this i can imagine why the in built power would be better because the external power supply was very heavy.
> also the fader movement, or ease of movement was annoying when i had the script resting on the desk and it slid down on the faders.
> summary from my perspective
> allen and heath, great brand name with great quality products and the 2200 was a great desk to work with and had no major drop backs
> except it had no noise generator but you could just use a cd or ipod playing a test tone or something, the crest i worked on had a noise generator and my view is, it either has one option (white noise) or it takes up too much space (white noise nob, where to assign it, pink, sine wave, adjust sine wave)


Oops, I didn't read the manuals carefully enough ... it's got an internal power supply ... so that's one off my list. I understand the issue of noise, hopefully this won't be noticable as I try to run the power cables straight down the back of the booth and leave the signal cables horizontal on top.
Sound generator: the GL2200 has one, no? 1k and pink?
Faders: sound like this is the only remaining real issue ... as has been mentioned, one accidental bump on these seems like it can send the fader careening one way or the other ... I will have to be very careful with this.
Thanks. John


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## SHARYNF (Oct 3, 2007)

Here goes some personal opinions:

If you set the gain structure correct on the mackie, you should not have any noise problems, it is easy not to set it up correctly and have the signal levels too low.

Considering all the other issues you have raised at your PAC, fixing speaker placement, and getting the reliability issues with your wireless would be a higher priority.

A&H is great, but this is an older board, and they take a bit of keeping on top of to keep them in great shape. A&H offers great service, that is probably the main reason people go with them.

SOOOO I'd fix what you have first, before moving on to add another item.

Sharyn


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## Hughesie (Oct 3, 2007)

the gl2200, to my knowlage (eg i couldn't find one during use) does have a noise generator

the fader problem can be overcome and + it can be handy to be able to quickly flick them down during a huge scene change


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## j_blinker (Oct 3, 2007)

Sorry to be slow into the mix (no pun intended), but the aux/group flip feature discussed earlier exists for 1 main reason; it is a dual function board. When the flip is engaged the desk is setup for monitors. The Aux masters are on the faders for better accuracy and resolution and the output is on the XLR jack NOT because its a better connection or more/less common but rather to make use on the inserts found only on the XLR outputs. When used as a monitor desk this is preferable because when you solo mixes the EQing for the mixes will affect your cans/ listen wedge too. 

These boards have served me well on tons of shows. For theatrical productions the models with more mute groups and groups are handy.


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## avkid (Oct 3, 2007)

Hughesie89 said:


> the one i worked with was strange, it came with two psu's but you could not connect both at the same time.


A simple Transfer switch fixes this.


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## jkowtko (Oct 4, 2007)

SHARYNF said:


> Here goes some personal opinions:
> If you set the gain structure correct on the mackie, you should not have any noise problems, it is easy not to set it up correctly and have the signal levels too low.


I hear the noise when LR is set to unity and all other faders and groups (and I thought all pots) are turned completely off, and groups disconnected from the LR. Evidently the main has some low level noise that is fairly prominent -- I found a thread in the Mackie forum dated back in 2005 about this. The group faders, on the other hand, are much quieter (although not completely silent) even with the faders pushed to the top. So for the last few shows I was able to control the noise reasonably well by lowering LR to -10db and pushing groups to +5db (from Unity formerly) and then riding the channel faders a bit higher for the show.
NOTE: This noise cannot be easily heard on the PA ... only on the headphones and recording. For this production I daisy-chained two CFX boards together, so the wireless board runs it's main out to one input channel on the main board. I used the main so I could include FX from the wireless board, which routes only to main or aux, not groups. Otherwise I would have tapped out of the group outs directly, which are much quieter. I could have also tried aux out, but didn't have the time to test this out.

SHARYNF said:


> Considering all the other issues you have raised at your PAC, fixing speaker placement, and getting the reliability issues with your wireless would be a higher priority.
> Sharyn


Sharyn, these projects are all somewhat orthogonal ... upgrading a board doesn't interfere with my ability (or inability) to resolve the other problems. I am working on them all at the same time, however I don't have a lot of time to devote to theater work and there are many obstacles out of my control, so the process has unfortunately been slower than I would like.


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## SHARYNF (Oct 4, 2007)

This series from Mackie was not really designed for recording, the FX processor is not the quietest, but as you say it is not distracting on the actual speakers. As mixers age, the capacitors tend to start to go, and the faders get noisy. Most low end pa mixers will have a level of noise over head phones. 

Sharyn


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## TimmyP1955 (Oct 4, 2007)

I used a GL2200 for three or four years. I had no noise problems, and had no troubles with the low-effort faders. The only complaints I ever had were with the lack of features - but for what it cost, it was a great console.

I would not want to use the faders as aux masters, as they are too handy as group masters. Plus, if you are having to adjust your aux masters that often, you have a problem IMHO. I never made more than one or two minor tweaks per night.


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## j_blinker (Oct 5, 2007)

The aux to fader flip is definitly for when the board is being run as a dedicated monitor desk.


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## museav (Oct 6, 2007)

JKOWTKO, if they are not used for long periods of time the Mains Insert jacks are known to give problems on some Mackie boards. This might even be worse with top mounted connectors, between dust and stuff getting in the jacks and simple oxidation and aging. A quick cleaning by inserting and removing a 1/4" TRS in a few times in the Mains Insert jacks might help.

Your main output graphic EQ settings on the CFX might also be affecting the noise levels, how is the EQ set? Also check the EFX return, that is another potential noise source between the group outputs and the main outputs.

Since you mentioned that the noise can be heard in recordings, what outputs are you using to feed the recorder?


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## jkowtko (Oct 14, 2007)

I was daisy-chaining the output of the vocal board to one input channel on the main board, and I recorded off the main board. That input channel was coming in noisy.

I thought I had all the EFX feeds turned off, and the EQ was definitely set flat. The next time I need to use the main outs I'll check the insert jacks as you suggest.

Thanks. John


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