# Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weather



## dvsDave

Right on the heels of the Indiana Fair/Sugarland Stage Collapse, a stage has collapsed in Pukkelpop Music Festival and four people are reportedly dead, due to severe weather.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14582448 (with video of aftermath)

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/smith-westerns-survive-stage-collapse-in-belgium-20110818

Stage Collapses at Pukkelpop Festival in Belgium - chicagotribune.com


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## DaveySimps

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

So sad. I can only imagine the changes that are going to come out of all of this. 

~Dave


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## Van

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

The Rolling stone article is slightly better than the Chicago Tribs. The Tribs was written too quick and missed facts in their tie-ins. Weird Video though, the one on bottom, that big loose sign hanging free ? Well, Times they will be a changin'.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Actual Collapse seen from Onstage



Aftermath


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

AP has downgraded the number of dead to 3, 60+ injured.
News from The Associated Press


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## JD

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Incredible. Other then "weather" and "out door event" I am finding it hard to see any common threads between these disasters. The type of equipment used is different in almost every case. Hard to draw any useful conclusions other than these things happen in strings for some reason.


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## DaveySimps

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


JD said:


> Incredible. Other then "weather" and "out door event" I am finding it hard to see any common threads between these disasters. The type of equipment used is different in almost every case. Hard to draw any useful conclusions other than these things happen in strings for some reason.


 
I hope people don't start drawing conclusions based on this, lack on knowledge, and crate policy based on this.

~Dave


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Statement from the Cullen Omori, frontman of the band Smith Westerns that was onstage at the time:

> We had just finished the first song of our set at Pukkelpop when the stage/tent started shaking and simply thought it was a storm passing through. I made a comment about Cheap Trick and we were about to play the next one when our tour manager yelled at me to run off the stage. Right then the tress collapsed 1 foot in front of [guitarist] Max [Kakacek]. At this point we thought only the stage broke, not the tent. Amid the chaos it was hard to tell exactly what had happened, but after the rescue teams started coming in it became clear that there were severe injuries and we are now being told there are reports of multiple deaths. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the families who lost loved ones in today's tragedy.


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## DuckJordan

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

So, I wonder if we all need to rethink what these systems are cappable of handling. Or at least read what the manufacturer (who has probably done the load tests) figure what should occur if something like this happens again... The way that video wall was swinging makes me wonder just how long the wind was blowing before it collapsed.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Reports are still coming in slowly. It's a bit early to begin speculating. I'm getting conflicting reports all over the place. 4 Dead, 3 Dead, 6 Dead. It's still fairly chaotic over there and I think we won't get a clear picture of what happened till tomorrow morning. Lots of video of the aftermath, trying to find more video of the event itself, but it was raining so hard that most of the videos have no real detail.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Video found over at Jimonlight.com who is also keeping running updates going. 


This video shows the back of the circus style tent going down, fast forward to 1:15.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Pictures of the aftermath. Poster has explicitly stated he retains all rights on the photos so I'll link you to the blog post. Fotoblog Jan Geloen: PUKKELPOP 2011


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## teqniqal

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


JD said:


> Incredible. Other then "weather" and "out door event" I am finding it hard to see any common threads between these disasters. The type of equipment used is different in almost every case. Hard to draw any useful conclusions other than these things happen in strings for some reason.


Look at the pictures posted in Fotoblog Jan Geloen: PUKKELPOP 2011 Although they use circus style tents for some venues, they still use stages very similar to the US for the large music acts.

That these 'things' happen in strings _is_ the predictable nature of summer storms. The high technology of lightning strike monitors and wind shear radar also allows us to foresee these events in time to evacuate the venue and get lower the structures close to the ground where they can possibly survive the wind loading much better. At a minimum, even if the wind tears it apart, at least the gear is not falling 50-60 feet to the ground. Lowering the speakers, lights, and canopies takes time, so you must plan that into the decision matrix for calling the show.

Another significant difference is that most of the European stuff runs on 220-240 Volts, so if any wiring gets blown loose and electrifies the truss or wet ground, the consequences can be even more severe.


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## gafftapegreenia

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Not much you can do when a tree falls on your truss.


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## Van

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

I realize the jury is still out on this and the Indiana collapse but ... I find it passing strange that Smith & Western were still performing if you watch that video that Dave posted from Jimonlight it's not just raining it's POURING why were they still performing in those conditions ? Must the show go on ? Really ? I generally look to Europe and Austrailia as a beacon of doing things right and **** the costs.


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## shiben

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


Van said:


> I realize the jury is still out on this and the Indiana collapse but ... I find it passing strange that Smith & Western were still performing if you watch that video that Dave posted from Jimonlight it's not just raining it's POURING why were they still performing in those conditions ? Must the show go on ? Really ? I generally look to Europe and Austrailia as a beacon of doing things right and **** the costs.


 
you wanna be the one to say no to tens if not hundreds of thousands of people?


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## chausman

shiben said:


> you wanna be the one to say no to tens if not hundreds of thousands of people?


 
As long as I'm doing it from a god mic from somewhere where they can't see me!


---
- Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MNicolai

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


Van said:


> I realize the jury is still out on this and the Indiana collapse but ... I find it passing strange that Smith & Western were still performing if you watch that video that Dave posted from Jimonlight it's not just raining it's POURING why were they still performing in those conditions ? Must the show go on ? Really ? I generally look to Europe and Austrailia as a beacon of doing things right and **** the costs.


 
Agreed, but it's sort of a moot point because there likely wasn't any shelter for the concert-goers aside from _other tents_ which are just as much a gamble to be under or near. I'm not agreeing with that practice, but I expect there was not a single safe place to be at the festival for 98% of the crowd. Their choices were probably to be outdoor getting rained on and blown over, or standing under a tent that's liable to collapse on top of them.

Just like the Indiana State Fair disaster; the damage was done hours in advance of the storm by allowing the event to continue. By the time the storm escalated in severity, there probably wasn't any solid structure for anyone to stand under, much less a large enough one for every attendee to get out of the rain/wind.

This raises a big problem for festival organizers everywhere: If ample, secure shelter is not available, do they have any business holding their event outdoors in the first place?


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## DaveySimps

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


shiben said:


> you wanna be the one to say no to tens if not hundreds of thousands of people?


 
I think that is a VERY loaded question. That type of attitude is what contributes to these types of accidents to begin with. Obviously lots of grey area, but I think we as an industry need to revisit that whole idea.

~Dave


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## cpf

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


DaveySimps said:


> I think that is a VERY loaded question. That type of attitude is what contributes to these types of accidents to begin with. Obviously lots of grey area, but I think we as an industry need to revisit that whole idea.
> 
> ~Dave


 Not only does the industry need to revisit it, audiences and the general public should, too. When you've got people complaining about icebergs not showing up at their vacation destinations on schedule, they certainly aren't going to stand for their favourite band's concert getting cancelled due to some measly wind or a few drops of rain.


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## DaveySimps

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

I agree 100%. People have to stand up for their priorities, and not let producers or the all mighty dollar make critical decisions like this for them.

~Dave


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## len

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Closer to home, driving through the neighborhood today and the high school is still using a scissor lift to observe marching band practice. No idea what the rating is for the lift they're using, but I wonder if THEY know.


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## shiben

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


DaveySimps said:


> I think that is a VERY loaded question. That type of attitude is what contributes to these types of accidents to begin with. Obviously lots of grey area, but I think we as an industry need to revisit that whole idea.
> 
> ~Dave


 

cpf said:


> Not only does the industry need to revisit it, audiences and the general public should, too. When you've got people complaining about icebergs not showing up at their vacation destinations on schedule, they certainly aren't going to stand for their favourite band's concert getting cancelled due to some measly wind or a few drops of rain.


 
And that was the point. On our end, sitting in a solid building, it makes a lot of sense to say call the show off. However, when your the guy deciding "do I need to go on stage with a mic and say to 50,000 people hey your band wont be on, the wind is picking up", the situation is very different, at least in perception. And maybe it is a loaded question, but its a very real question. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news because the messenger getting shot is a pretty real occurrence (metaphorically here, I doubt literally).


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## Ric

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


Van said:


> I generally look to Europe and Austrailia as a beacon of doing things right and **** the costs.



People in Oz are definitely watching all these things happening all over the world. I don't think we're immune to any of the issues.
It's certainly not a case of being better/stricter than anyone else.
Hopefully this is going to ensure everyone is that much more careful in all that we do, I know I will be.


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## derekleffew

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


len said:


> Closer to home, driving through the neighborhood today and the high school is still using a scissor lift to observe marching band practice.


Have they not seen this thread:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/22087-college-student-dies-scissor-lift-accident.html ?


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## shiben

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


derekleffew said:


> Have they not seen this thread:
> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/22087-college-student-dies-scissor-lift-accident.html ?


 
It keeps happening... A local HS actually built a concrete pad for theirs after that accident, basically so they had a solid surface. No idea how much safer that made things...


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## Van

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


shiben said:


> And that was the point. On our end, sitting in a solid building, it makes a lot of sense to say call the show off. However, when your the guy deciding "do I need to go on stage with a mic and say to 50,000 people hey your band wont be on, the wind is picking up", the situation is very different, at least in perception. And maybe it is a loaded question, but its a very real question. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news because the messenger getting shot is a pretty real occurrence (metaphorically here, I doubt literally).


 
Not to get sidelined into a pissing match but, yeah if it means saving the lives of 5,2 or even one person. If it means an 8 year old won't lose his arm cause it's crushed under a truss that just fell 40 feet, you bet you ***** I'd be happy to walk out and close a concert down. 


Ric said:


> People in Oz are definitely watching all these things happening all over the world. I don't think we're immune to any of the issues.
> It's certainly not a case of being better/stricter than anyone else.
> Hopefully this is going to ensure everyone is that much more careful in all that we do, I know I will be.


 After working with the group from STC last year I can Guaranttee you guys are MUCH stricter when it comes to safety enforcement . I for one, appreciate it.


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## shiben

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


Van said:


> Not to get sidelined into a pissing match but, yeah if it means saving the lives of 5,2 or even one person. If it means an 8 year old won't lose his arm cause it's crushed under a truss that just fell 40 feet, you bet you ***** I'd be happy to walk out and close a concert down.



And I agree with you. It is worth it to do, its just a tough decision. My only point was that a lot of people would not want to do that. I know I would be a bit scared...


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## len

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


derekleffew said:


> Have they not seen this thread:
> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/22087-college-student-dies-scissor-lift-accident.html ?


 
I don't know, but I did send the directors an e-mail asking the if they were taking precautions. 

That fatality made the Chicago papers. I hope they saw it. There was also a large follow-up on one of the fatalities in Indiana. Apparently, she was quite active in the community. But who knows? My wife hadn't heard about Indiana and barely remembers the Notre Dame fatality.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

AP has a compilation clip up of lots of footage, including some I haven't seen before.


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## dvsDave

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

More info coming in this morning. Death count is at 5, and the rest of the festival has been cancelled (organizers were saying last night that it would go on, but they appear to have reversed that decision)

More pictures and details here: Pukkelpop stage collapse: Belgian music festival cancelled after 5 deaths | Mail Online

Unfortunately, the organizers have already started putting their foot in their mouth. 

> 'What has happened is very exceptional and could not have been predicted. We are deeply moved by all the spontaneous support the festival goers and the organisation have received.'



Uh huh.... The meteorology reports show this storm system ripping through Brussels not an hour before it hit the festival. I am having a hard time with the "no warning excuse". More on the meteorological aspects of the disaster at JohnHuntington's blog, ControlGeek.net.


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## gafftaper

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

I've just been thinking about all these accidents and the nature of truss. Truss is designed with a male and female that slide together and a pin to lock it all in place. The vertical uprights rely on Gravity to some extent to hold the whole tower firmly in place. The whole thing is designed to keep things from falling down. But what happens when you take gravity away and instead apply a significant amount of upward lift and horizontal pressure on the roof and walls? That's not a force in a direction that typical truss is really designed to handle. Yes you secure it and stabilize the stage with wires, but that's a secondary line of defense. Perhaps we need to look at adding some significant steel diagonal bracing to the truss design? 

I'm definitely not an expert with truss, I've only worked with it a half a dozen times, so don't quote me on this. However, the physics to me seems fairly straight forward. If you apply enough wind the basic design is suddenly rendered flawed. I would love to hear more from you riggers and road warriors who have worked a lot with truss over the years.


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## MistressRach

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Another (mostly) meteorological take on things, includes links to satellite and radar of the storm

Stage collapses at Belgium concert, five dead; festival canceled - Capital Weather Gang - The Washington Post


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## mstaylor

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

The problem is the more cross bracing you add the longer it takes to get it down. Cross guying does nothing to stop uplift. The only way to stop that is to guy to the ground. Unfortunately they usually just drive tent pins or similar to attach to. We may need to look at something more sustantial. You don't necessarily need concrete embeded, you could have large water ballast instead.


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## Van

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Gaff, you're sort of right, but most of the Truss that failed in the Indiana tragedy, and the other recent ones, I can't say about the Belgian one cause I haven't seen clear pics or vid yet, is not of the pin and sleeve type. Pin and sleeve couplings are common with truss designed for horizontal use but are less common in Vertical use. Most of the Verticals are tied together with a minimum of 4, grade 8 bolts. Yes, you might get a catastrophic failure from compression stress if the entire rig were picked up and dropped by the wind, but I would think you'd need a significant amount of height. 
If you notice, almost all of these collapses happen with the rig falling to one side or to the front or back, these are cases where the horizontal trussing is failing, like on the Justin / Christina failure in NJ. Nope these are torsional failures at the connection between the towers and the horizontals and at the bases. and the only thing I've seen that actually looks like an 'engineered structure' failure is the shot of the tower separating at the Indiana concert. the only thing I can think of is that a plate pulled loose from one end. 
IMHO the real solution is not beefier horizontals and it may not even be mandatory removal of ceilings. It may simply be more cross-bracing < at the expnse of more hours spent setting up and taking down> and a better, beefier, anchoring system and a much beefier connection from towers to horizontals.


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## mstaylor

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


gafftaper said:


> I've just been thinking about all these accidents and the nature of truss. Truss is designed with a male and female that slide together and a pin to lock it all in place. The vertical uprights rely on Gravity to some extent to hold the whole tower firmly in place. The whole thing is designed to keep things from falling down. But what happens when you take gravity away and instead apply a significant amount of upward lift and horizontal pressure on the roof and walls? That's not a force in a direction that typical truss is really designed to handle. Yes you secure it and stabilize the stage with wires, but that's a secondary line of defense. Perhaps we need to look at adding some significant steel diagonal bracing to the truss design?
> 
> I'm definitely not an expert with truss, I've only worked with it a half a dozen times, so don't quote me on this. However, the physics to me seems fairly straight forward. If you apply enough wind the basic design is suddenly rendered flawed. I would love to hear more from you riggers and road warriors who have worked a lot with truss over the years.


Most of the roofs are not spigoted truss like you descibe, most is plates and bolts. It doesn't change your point, just wanted to note the difference.


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## gafftaper

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Again I'm not an expert, but I do know wood and I know that you can get a significant amount of cross brace stiffening power using a relatively light weight and weak 1x3 cross brace. It seems like you could do a lot by just adding a few cross bracing bars at 45 degree angles. It might not have to be that big or heavy either. Some sort of Aluminum, maybe in an I-beam. Could be fairly light weight and not that hard to setup and take down. Yeah it wouldn't solve everything but if you could increase the stability by 20%-30% with a simple addition it could be enough to prevent some of these collapses.


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## mstaylor

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

Anything you attach to the towers slows the process of bringing it down is counterproductive. You would have to stiffen enough it is going to take any weather coming. I don't know that is possible. 
What really needs to happen is for acts and producers understand that you are playing a festival. You can't have your entire show, you are outside, limited resources and a system already hanging. I did a national act a few years ago that required the existing stacks and racks had to be pulled down to allow their system to hung. We did as told and when they came in, it was exactly the same system. 
Lighting should be a compromise also. Hang additional mover truss(es) and then anything on the floor. Any backdrops should be set to be able to bring them down quickly or notbe put up at all until showtime. 
Whenever there is a possibilty of weather you need a rigging call on at all times over any crew calls in case something needs to be dropped. 
As far as bracing for uplift and cross movement. There is nothing wrong with cable guys but they have to be in multiple directions. I have done big water ballast tanks and poured concrete ballast with fork pockets built in so they work but can be temperary.


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## ruinexplorer

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


shiben said:


> And that was the point. On our end, sitting in a solid building, it makes a lot of sense to say call the show off. However, when your the guy deciding "do I need to go on stage with a mic and say to 50,000 people hey your band wont be on, the wind is picking up", the situation is very different, at least in perception. And maybe it is a loaded question, but its a very real question. No one wants to be the bearer of bad news because the messenger getting shot is a pretty real occurrence (metaphorically here, I doubt literally).


 
No, but it can and has been done, even at very large festivals.

[video]http://youtu.be/lEuE786z3ZY[/video]

Something that I did like about the set-up in Belgium was that the line arrays were separated from the rest of the structure. I think that large objects that will become pendulums in the wind (line arrays and video walls in particular) must be on their own structures. This would allow for better stabilization of the structure over the stage and could potentially be better reinforced from collapse as smaller individual structures. As a side bonus, the entire rig could go up and down during install and strike more efficiently since one department (lighting) wouldn't be waiting on others (audio and video).


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## shiben

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

A

ruinexplorer said:


> No, but it can and has been done, even at very large festivals.
> 
> [video]http://youtu.be/lEuE786z3ZY[/video]
> 
> Something that I did like about the set-up in Belgium was that the line arrays were separated from the rest of the structure. I think that large objects that will become pendulums in the wind (line arrays and video walls in particular) must be on their own structures. This would allow for better stabilization of the structure over the stage and could potentially be better reinforced from collapse as smaller individual structures. As a side bonus, the entire rig could go up and down during install and strike more efficiently since one department (lighting) wouldn't be waiting on others (audio and video).




That would be nice. ALWAYS waiting on audio...


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## What Rigger?

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*


gafftaper said:


> I've just been thinking about all these accidents and the nature of truss. Truss is designed with a male and female that slide together and a pin to lock it all in place. The vertical uprights rely on Gravity to some extent to hold the whole tower firmly in place. The whole thing is designed to keep things from falling down. But what happens when you take gravity away and instead apply a significant amount of upward lift and horizontal pressure on the roof and walls? That's not a force in a direction that typical truss is really designed to handle. Yes you secure it and stabilize the stage with wires, but that's a secondary line of defense. Perhaps we need to look at adding some significant steel diagonal bracing to the truss design?
> 
> I'm definitely not an expert with truss, I've only worked with it a half a dozen times, so don't quote me on this. However, the physics to me seems fairly straight forward. If you apply enough wind the basic design is suddenly rendered flawed. I would love to hear more from you riggers and road warriors who have worked a lot with truss over the years.


 
Remember, gang...these are temporary structures we're dealing with here. Nothing's built to withstand any/everything. At my gig, we design everything to withstand an 80mph wind load- and if it really looks like things might get shady, we just shut it down. Whatever event or thing "it" is. 

Concert promoters/producers need to have the spine to do this as well if things start to look the least bit wonky. 

My 2 cents.


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## mstaylor

*Re: Stage Collapse at Pukkelpop Music Festival in Hasslet, Belgium during severe weat*

I was supposed to be doing a Foxworthy show today, they canceled, just to be safe.


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