# LED CYC Lighting



## JoeFras (Jan 24, 2010)

Lighting a CYC with LED fixtures comes and goes as an idea because of the issue of the uneven photometric of "PAR" or strip style fixtures. 
Altman now has an LED fixture specifically designed as a CYC wash unit. It is the Spectra Series LED CYC 100w. I was able to demo a single unit for a day and was interested if anyone else has any comment on this fixture.*

Thanks for the input.
*


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## chris325 (Jan 24, 2010)

What was the pricing on this compared to ETC's Selador Series LED fixtures? Those are 7-color, unlike Altman's RGBA cyc washes, so I'm wondering how much of a price jump there would be between the two.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jan 24, 2010)

I have yet to see them in person, however we *might* be renting them for our current show.

My TD went to LDI with one of his missions to look at LED cyc lighting. He looked at Selador, he looked at CK, but he said the truly most impressive unit was the Altman Spectra Cyc. Infact, while he was at the CK booth, he asked about cyc lighting and the CK rep himself told my TD to go check out the Altman unit! 


Whats smart about the Altman unit is the LED's mix at the reflector; it's designed like a soft light. Instead of the color mixing from the individual LED's AFTER it leaves the fixture, they mix at the reflector and the light that comes out is pure, no multi-color shadows. Additionally, they need no external power supply, and have DMX512 and 120v AC pass through on board. 

As for pricing, I believe i've seen them anywhere between $1,200 and $1,800 per unit.


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## Les (Jan 24, 2010)

gafftapegreenia said:


> As for pricing, I believe i've seen them anywhere between $1,200 and $1,800 per unit.



If these numbers are accurate, this seems like a pretty good deal given the price to light a cyc with comparable LED strips from top and bottom. This assuming that you can use these like regular cyc lights (top only) and spaced a reasonable distance apart. I'd like to see these units in action, since they seem to be somewhat under-rated.


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## fx120 (Jan 24, 2010)

We own six of the Spectra-CYC 100's and they're very very good at highly saturated colors but can't quite pull off some of the more pastel tones or a true 3500K white, but they do come a lot closer than most other RGB fixtures.

For the price they're very hard to beat, and they're almost as bright if not brighter than a 1K sky-cyc on some of the deeper colors. 

I've yet to use them in a theater space, but for wall-washes they've worked well so far.

MSRP is $2,150.00, but they can be found for considerably less.


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## chris325 (Jan 24, 2010)

What is the price range for Selador fixtures?


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## Les (Jan 24, 2010)

chris325 said:


> What is the price range for Selador fixtures?



They usually can be had for between arm/leg - first born


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## icewolf08 (Jan 25, 2010)

I had Russell Altman in a couple days ago to do a demo of the Spectra Cyc and Par. While it is hard to really do a comparison when you only have one cyc fixture, I was pretty impressed. It really is the only LED cyc fixture available on the market today. Sorry, Selador and the CK are just no making cyc fixtures. Strips are all well and good, but are no more useful in lighting a large cyc than MR-16 Zip Strips. My local rep is going to try and get a bunch of the altman fixtures in so that we can do a real shootout at some point, but the upfront cost is a little prohibitive for us.


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## JoeFras (Jan 26, 2010)

The company I work for got a quote of $1290 each. When you consider the ability to color mix and reduced setup and power requirements, this is not unattractive.

They setup just like traditional CYC light fixtures. At top and or bottom and spacing 6 to 8 feet apart.


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## derekleffew (Jan 26, 2010)

*Re: Altman LED cyc Lighting*

Furthering what JoeFras said...
MSRP for Spectra Series LED CYC 100W -Black is $2150. Compare to MSRP for SKY-CYC-04 at $1325. Dimmers, circuitry, gel, and lamps certainly cost more than the difference of $825. I'd _really_ like to hear from someone who has five to eight of the Spectras lighting a cyc, to see if they do actually perform favorably.


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## PeytonJr (Jan 26, 2010)

These seem really fantastic, but I'm worried that they might have that jittery LED really-fast-flicker going on. I really could not stand an entire cyc doing that, although it might be diminished by the offset from the other fixtures. Admittedly, I don't have much experience with LED lights, but the flickering is my main argument against, along with the narrow spectrum output.


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## Footer (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: Altman LED cyc Lighting*


derekleffew;163981 said:


> Dimmers, circuitry, gel, and lamps certainly cost more than the difference of $825.



Thats the interesting issue. We are used to paying the one time fee for dimmers and plugging in a 200 dollar light. We have yet to cross the bridge of just buying the 1200 dollar light. 

I too would love to see these things in action on a full scale cyc in a real world situation. Between these fixtures and the Reveal line, LED lighting is MUCH closer then we think. I could easily sell a few donors to pick up 4 of those, especially with the "green" incentive.


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## shiben (Jan 27, 2010)

*Re: Altman LED cyc Lighting*


Footer said:


> I too would love to see these things in action on a full scale cyc in a real world situation. Between these fixtures and the Reveal line, LED lighting is MUCH closer then we think. I could easily sell a few donors to pick up 4 of those, especially with the "green" incentive.



Also take a look at grants from eco-groups. I know that at least some of them would be interested in pulling 12000W off the cyc and replace it with 400W of LEDs, and would probably partially subsidize the purchase.


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## Goph704 (Jan 27, 2010)

Altman's are flicker free. Both in real life and on Film. for right now that should be the first question out of anybody's mouth who is looking in the general direction of LEDS. I've gotten to work with the Altman not too long ago, and believe me they're worth it. 
My major concern with LEDs is actually a little different from most people I watch the trimming, both in 8 or in 16 bit mode. Trimming, as in when there is a color change, how smooth is that transition going to be? Good trimming equals high bin products, bad trimming will just get worse. Even though they are more expensive I feel that high bin LEDs are the way to go. Most of the stuff out there can get you good or at least interesting color, but will it be bright enough? Can you mix it well? What does the snap or the fade actually look like? Even more important what's it going to look like with the conventional fixtures you've already got? When we go from red to blue is it going to stutter? How quickly is my circuit board going to die? What happens when I drop it, not if I drop it, when I drop it.
When you buy this stuff your remember it's like buying a car. You've got multiple features to pay attention to. Big wheels are cool (I'm from N.C.) but what's the gas millage? How comfy are the seats, can you program the display/ C.D player? to me right now, Altman wins, on all counts, it's the first theater LED that i feel is actually worth the money. and no I don't work for them. Have fun, those things are a blast.


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## epimetheus (Jan 27, 2010)

In my experience, you get what you pay for when it comes to LED's. We've got Mega-lite Color Cannons at my church and they are perfectly fine on camera. No flicker whatsoever. On the other hand, we had to send back some iRiver white/amber LED's due to very noticable flicker on camera. The Color Cannons aren't perfect though, the bottom end of the dimming range is a bit rough; they do tend to step for the first couple of values above 0.


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## MyKEY Bee (Feb 4, 2016)

I can see from the dates on the posts that this is from ages ago... 

At that time I believe Altman Cyc was the main or even only contender for an LED Cyc light. I just recently had a shootout/demo with the Altman Spectra Cyc 100 (1st model), the ETC Color Source RGB-Lime Led's, ETC Lutstr+, Philips PLCYC 1 Mark 2, and Philips Showline SL640 Bars.


Out of all of them for a traditional cyc replacement the ETC Color Source with cyc adapters were by far the best at coverage and true color replication and also a smooth dimming curve. They were by far the brightest and the only one that could produce a somewhat true "Canary" Yellow. They matched the red and green of the Altman Cycs, but the drawback on all of the fixtures were their abilities to produce a decent Night blue. Unfortunately that was the only color that the ColorSource could not produce but I have heard in the future they might actually be trying to correct that. The Altman cyc produced a ultraviolet blue and from my memory the PLCYC looked like your typical LED fixtures which have a hard time at producing a true white (3200K or 5600K) , the SL Bar light was by far the BRIGHTEST light, almost to a migraine inducing extent and is also not truly intended for a cyc light because it needs to be placed at about 20' away from the cyc to not create hot spots.

I have not seen the Altman cyc Series two yet which I would be very interested in seeing. Overall takeaway though is that the ETC colorsource (also one of the cheapest and brightest and the best coverage at a 22' trim) is the best, it is just a dam shame that that dark blue is not quite there yet. Come on ETC... Take over the market by storm and make one that nails it .... PRETTY please???


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## derekleffew (Feb 4, 2016)

Interesting that you liked the ColorSource better than the Lustr+, and that none of them could replicate R74. Not even a mix of the blue and indigo of the Lustr?

Is there a reason you must have a "true cyc light" and are opposed to strips? See https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/cyc-lighting.38753/ .

If one is not adamant about strips, possibly worth consideration is DALIS from Robert-Juliat, featuring EIGHT (seven is sooo last year) colors.


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## MyKEY Bee (Feb 4, 2016)

Yes. The Lustr+ was unfortunately not as bright as the other lights simply because they use a 7 color LED system, so what you think would be brighter, is actually dimmer becuase it spreads the intensity out across more LED's. The Lustr+ IMO is more for a Leko Spot situation, where you have access to many more actual colors and you should be able to get enough intensity out for some front light on an actor. When you're talking about filling an entire cyc with rich, saturated colors it could not keep up with the Color source.

I am not opposed to strip lights, the only problem with the Showline SL strip lights was that they were far too intense at that small of a distance (6 feet) therefore they created these hot spots directly under the lights but I'll be damned if one of them did not almost fill the entire cyc. Perhaps there are frost attachments but then again I was not thoroughly impressed with its color selection.

Thank you for the recomendations though. I am surprised to see such a quick response.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 4, 2016)

Did you compare just one unit to one unit? I ask because while the ETC may be brighter and more even on that basis, I have that the Philips is a little better looking considering you can buy almost two for what one ETC unit costs. More units more closely spaced on the same drop with similar total lumens for the same price seems worth considering, not to mention you can get a little closer to the drop. And distance to drop is of course possible to reduce with the strip lights or other "scraper" style drop lights.


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## Footer (Feb 4, 2016)

MyKEY Bee said:


> Yes. The Lustr+ was unfortunately not as bright as the other lights simply because they use a 7 color LED system, so what you think would be brighter, is actually dimmer becuase it spreads the intensity out across more LED's. The Lustr+ IMO is more for a Leko Spot situation, where you have access to many more actual colors and you should be able to get enough intensity out for some front light on an actor. When you're talking about filling an entire cyc with rich, saturated colors it could not keep up with the Color source.
> 
> I am not opposed to strip lights, the only problem with the Showline SL strip lights was that they were far too intense at that small of a distance (6 feet) therefore they created these hot spots directly under the lights but I'll be damned if one of them did not almost fill the entire cyc. Perhaps there are frost attachments but then again I was not thoroughly impressed with its color selection.
> 
> Thank you for the recomendations though. I am surprised to see such a quick response.



Before you shell out the 30k, get a demo of the ColorForce 72's with the cyc lens.


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## MikeJ (Feb 5, 2016)

The color force 72 is pretty old, but it still does a dang good job of lighting a cyc, from very close(1 foot away) and has great control of spill because it is so narrow. It's still kind of pricey, and not really good for much else.

The showline is a really nice fixture, it may not be the best at any one thing but it is really versital as a cyc wash, boarder light, foot light and eye candy light.

And Inexpensive to boot. The default is a 60 degree angle, but I think they offer a 30 degree lens as well.


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## wawawayne (Sep 6, 2016)

I demoed and then bought and installed a number of Altman Spectra Cyc 50's, bicolor white, in a small TV studio I designed the lighting rig for in the basement of Widener Library at Harvard. I was really impressed with the even throw top to bottom, though it was only about a 10' throw. These are really the only game out there that I can find. We had an issue with one unit dying right away, but otherwise they've done a great job. I'm speccing them again for another studio I'm designing at New England Sports Network.


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