# R40 vs. MR16 strips



## lefhalas (Nov 22, 2012)

Anybody have any experience using MR-16 Altman Strip lights to illuminate backdrops and scenery? Currently we're using R40 strips but zips are less than half the price?

I've already compared footcandles and field. Any advice or discussion?

Lef


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## danTt (Nov 22, 2012)

I havn't worked with r40s in forever, but as far as mr16s go, from a design perspective they are quite useful. From a maintence perspective there are few things I dislike more. The sockets go bad on a regular basis, and the indicator lights work far less often than I'd desire.


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## derekleffew (Nov 23, 2012)

lefhalas said:


> Anybody have any experience using MR-16 Altman Strip lights to illuminate backdrops and scenery? Currently we're using R40 strips but zips are less than half the price?


Mini-Strip manufacturer now defunct. Zip strip s half the price of R40 strip s? I don't think so. For a 6', 3-color unit, ($896-$1100 street) you have 30 lamps instead of 12. Lots more failure points, but lower wattage. Wiring, series. Uses less color media, but burns quicker. Space saver.

See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-position-lighting-cyclorama-mr16-strips.html. See also this and subsequent posts. And http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27766-led-cyc-light-help.html . SteveB used to be our power user of MR16 strips for cyc lighting, but I believe he has gone, or is going soon, to LED strips.

How big of a cyc / backdrop are we talking about? Do you use your R40s top and bottom or just top? One or two rows?

Since you're using, supposedly paid for, R40 strips now, I'd save my pennies until I could afford Chroma-Q ColorForce 72 or Selador Vivid-R 63".

Now IF I had 6-8' between cyc and electric, I'd rather have any tungsten or LED asymmetric-reflector cyc light. ETC has hinted that they may have an LED one soon; maybe you can afford it by the time it comes out, or vice-versa.

.


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## lefhalas (Nov 23, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Mini-Strip manufacturer now defunct. Zip strip s half the price of R40 strip s? I don't think so. For a 6', 3-color unit, ($896-$1100 street) you have 30 lamps instead of 12. Lots more failure points, but lower wattage. Wiring, series. Uses less color media, but burns quicker. Space saver.
> .



The prices I was referring to are rental costs. My supplier has a smaller inventory of r40 and less demand so they cost more.

Thanks for the break down. The strips are populated with r68 and r64 I guess from your comment that I should expect more burn through especially with less footcandles they would also have to run hotter.

I've been looking at the Vivid-R's and I have a friend who's head at a theatre in town who has some and loves them.

There are half a dozen different sets of drops (painted borders, legs, and full scenic drops US). US being lit from top only with two electrics of R40's (14 3 channel units total). DS scenery borders and legs are lit with MR16s from the bottom.

Thanks again.

Lef


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## traxman25 (Nov 23, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> For a 6', 3-color unit, ($896-$1100 street) you have 30 lamps instead of 12. Lots more failure points, but lower wattage.



All I have to add is that I just picked up 4 MR-16 strips for $225 a piece. They were used but in excellent condition. MUCH better shape than any of the R-40 strips or cyc cells I've ever worked with. They are freaking heavy though!

Edit, they are the 6' 3 circuit strips.


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## lefhalas (Nov 23, 2012)

traxman25 said:


> They are freaking heavy though!



I've hung 6' R40s by my self off the top of a 12' ladder. On this gig I don't have to lift anything though.


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## SteveB (Nov 23, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> [WIKI
> See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-position-lighting-cyclorama-mr16-strips.html. See also this and subsequent posts. And http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27766-led-cyc-light-help.html . SteveB used to be our power user of MR16 strips for cyc lighting, but I believe he has gone, or is going soon, to LED strips.
> 
> How big of a cyc / backdrop are we talking about? Do you use your R40s top and bottom or just top? One or two rows?
> ...



I wish I had the money to move to LED's, and would do so somewhat under duress due to the issues they generate when doing a lot of road shows that need color matching thru a range of cues to incandescent fixtures using good old gels. That issue aside, I would otherwise kill for some Selador's or Chroma Q's. On this coming Wed. we have an ETC demo of the Gio desk and hopefully some Selador LED fixtures, including a 6ft. strip to do a taste test. With the demise of L&E, I am now under the gun to move to an Altman version should I develop issues with my 25 year old original Mini-Strips, or which I have 3 remaining. The originals are extraordinarily difficult and time consuming to repair when the sockets go bad. The newer L&E versions are more readily repairable. The newer versions also have crappy sockets, I believe due to the huge popularity of the MR16 lamp in the architectural market, thus the lamps are cheap, but the sockets typically fail faster then the ones I used 25 years ago. Thus I end up doing a LOT of repairs on new-ish MR 16 sockets. Thus would kill for LED's, if only to put off the repair on those until after I've retired.

As to the OP, the MR16 lamp has a whiter color temperature as compared to R40's, which look dim and yellow by comparison, thus would not buy R40 strips. As well, I think long term, the R40 lamp will get phased out of use and you won't find lamp replacements. The Altman Zip-Strip is the only game in town currently and as far as I know and they are not cheap at about $800 plus for a 3 circuit/6 ft unit. Plus lamps.


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## hobbsies (Nov 26, 2012)

From maintenance perspectives, the mr16 strips are the bane of my existence. I had 9 circuits go out on a show I was filling in for the ME during channel check, and it took me all week to play catch up. I would fix four before the show, then 3 more would go out. Constant maintenance. Also had to grid walk (in fall arrest harness of course) to get to them, try fixing bad sockets while sitting on a pipe above the fixture. 

F those things. Go LED if you can afford it, even if you can't afford it, go LED anyways. MR16's are such a huge headache.


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## JChenault (Nov 26, 2012)

I find the MR16 strips do not spread as well as the R40 units. IE if I place them at the bottom of the cyc, there is always a dark area at the bottom of the cyc, for my .02$ worth, they are fine for toning strips, but for cyc lighting - not so much


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## SteveB (Nov 26, 2012)

JChenault said:


> I find the MR16 strips do not spread as well as the R40 units. IE if I place them at the bottom of the cyc, there is always a dark area at the bottom of the cyc, for my .02$ worth, they are fine for toning strips, but for cyc lighting - not so much



Attached is a photo of our 30x50 filled white cyc, lit with double hung L&E MR16 strips, 75w flood lamps on top, 75w spots on bottom, 6 units across (12 total, 9,000 watt load per color). The color is R125. If we use a color without built in diffusion, we add R104. 

The units are about 3ft downstage of the cyc and 3-5ft above the top of the cyc. The borders determine how high we need to trim the cyc lighting electric. 

You are correct that MR16's make terrible ground row units as the beam doesn't start to spread out until you are 3-4 ft up the cyc. They work pretty well as top units though.


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## JChenault (Nov 26, 2012)

SteveB said:


> Attached is a photo of our 30x50 filled white cyc, lit with double hung L&E MR16 strips, 75w flood lamps on top, 75w spots on bottom, 6 units across (12 total, 9,000 watt load per color). The color is R125. If we use a color without built in diffusion, we add R104.
> 
> The units are about 3ft downstage of the cyc and 3-5ft above the top of the cyc. The borders determine how high we need to trim the cyc lighting electric.
> 
> You are correct that MR16's make terrible ground row units as the beam doesn't start to spread out until you are 3-4 ft up the cyc. They work pretty well as top units though.



I think we may be in violent agreement 

IE They work pretty well as top units IF you have 3-4 feet above the cyc. In not ....


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## JChenault (Nov 26, 2012)

SteveB said:


> Attached is a photo of our 30x50 filled white cyc, lit with double hung L&E MR16 strips, 75w flood lamps on top, 75w spots on bottom, 6 units across (12 total, 9,000 watt load per color). The color is R125. If we use a color without built in diffusion, we add R104.
> 
> .



I'm curious 

Are you using the 'silk' to smooth the light right to left or up and down?


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 26, 2012)

If you are having trouble with getting enough spread in the ground row position, then why are you using SPOTS in your ground row?


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## derekleffew (Nov 26, 2012)

SteveB isn't using a ground row. The cyc electric is double-hung, tandem. The top row of fixtures to light the top half of the cyc are FL; the bottom row just underneath are SP, as they have the "far" shot to the lower half of the cyc. 

I believe he's stated in the past that he uses installs the silk with the lines horizontal, so that it spreads the light vertically.

If a production requires a ground row, I believe he has a set of Econo-cycs for that.
.


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## Lightguy5 (Nov 27, 2012)

We occasionally use both. Cyc, cells or R40s for top, Zips with spots for mid cyc from above, and then a zip ground row with floods for low.


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 27, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> SteveB isn't using a ground row. The cyc electric is double-hung, tandem. The top row of fixtures to light the top half of the cyc are FL; the bottom row just underneath are SP, as they have the "far" shot to the lower half of the cyc.
> 
> I believe he's stated in the past that he uses installs the silk with the lines horizontal, so that it spreads the light vertically.
> 
> ...



Yup, you are correct. Once again thats what I get for reading/skimming too fast.


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## SteveB (Nov 27, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> SteveB isn't using a ground row. The cyc electric is double-hung, tandem. The top row of fixtures to light the top half of the cyc are FL; the bottom row just underneath are SP, as they have the "far" shot to the lower half of the cyc.
> 
> I believe he's stated in the past that he uses installs the silk with the lines horizontal, so that it spreads the light vertically.
> 
> ...



Derek has it mostly all correct except that we sometimes use a set of Altman Ground Cyc's as ground rows. I also cannot recall which way the linear diffusion diffuses and would need to look at the sheets to see how we cut it. I actually believe it's frost lines run horizontal to diffuse L/R, but not certain, was in at 5:30 AM today so brain is not connecting to fingers on keyboard.


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## kbowen (Nov 28, 2012)

If you possibly can, go with Ianiro far-cycs or similar asymmetrical reflector cyc lights, especially as the throw distance becomes short. Horrible fall-off on lower part of cyc any other way. MR-16's are a horrible pain of arcing sockets and wasted bulbs, but useful when they work. We use Ianiros for general cyc light and long throw MR-16's for a color gradation on the lower extreme of the cyc. 

lefhalas said:


> Anybody have any experience using MR-16 Altman Strip lights to illuminate backdrops and scenery? Currently we're using R40 strips but zips are less than half the price?
> 
> I've already compared footcandles and field. Any advice or discussion?
> 
> Lef


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## techieman33 (Nov 28, 2012)

The silk diffuses 90* from the lines. So if the silk is running left to right, it diffused up and down.


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## gafftaper (Mar 16, 2016)

Bringing up an old thread...

I just had a set of MR16 strips donated. They currently are lamped with the 12 degree EYF lamps. I have 6 of them, one is completely without lamps, so I need to buy some more lamps. It seems to me I should be switching them to the 39 degree EYC/GL lamps. Is that what you use?

Unfortunately, that would mean my free fixtures would cost at least $500 to relamp. Thoughts?


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## derekleffew (Mar 16, 2016)

gafftaper said:


> It seems to me I should be switching them to the 39 degree EYC/GL lamps. Is that what you use?
> Unfortunately, that would mean my free fixtures would cost at least $500 to relamp. Thoughts?


Well, I haven't even *seen* an MR-16 strip in many years, but yes, the EYC 75W/FL/2000hr. is the best lamp to use, unless you can do a double row like @SteveB above. As for a total relamp costing $500, the first hit on teh google has an off-brand for 84 cents ea.: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5134/MR16CG-1773.html . Since you didn't say if they were 3 or 4 ckt., I don't know how many lamps you need: 6*30=180, 6*40=240; still a sizable chunk of change.*

Would this be the only cyc/backdrop lighting you have available? Would they be used in every show? Used as a nice set of X-ray s for toning? If nothing else, I'd keep them around even with the SP lamps, as they could be useful as backing strips for a box set. 

*Perhaps extend the usefulness of the existing SP lamps with whatever diffusion might be appropriate (R113 comes immediately to mind).


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## SteveB (Mar 16, 2016)

Our double hung, overhead strips have EYF spot lamps as the lower set and wash about 2/3 of our 30ft high Cyc. 

I use 6 fixtures in spot, with 6 more as EYC flood lamps for the upper portion.

I would just do a test run with 2 or 3 strips and some diffusion. We use either the Rosco R124,125 or 126 primary RGB colors, or use R104 added as cuts in each frame to any other color. Lee 228 is a slightly more dense linear diffusion and works as well. 

I could see just using spot EYF lamps alone if you can fly out the electric far enough to get some spread on the lamps.

As note, if these are the L&E MiniStrips, be prepared to do continual socket replacements. The design is such that the round lamp contact pins are only in contact with a small portion of the base contacts, with a result of frequent overheating, with lamp and socket failure. I'm at the point of replacing a socket or two after a few hours of use and with 12 fixtures is a PITA. The Altman ZipStrip is a significantly better design, as BTW


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## RonHebbard (Mar 16, 2016)

traxman25 said:


> They are freaking heavy though!


Ahh! Then be glad you're not working with 12 x PAR56 strips with glass rondels. Heavy AND noisy!!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## derekleffew (Mar 16, 2016)

@SteveB , do you have any strong feelings toward the 84 cent lamp to which I linked? What brand lamp do you use?

Have you ever heard of, or adhered to, the myth? that if one lamp fails, one should change the other nine on the circuit as well?


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## SteveB (Mar 16, 2016)

derekleffew said:


> @SteveB , do you have any strong feelings toward the 84 cent lamp to which I linked? What brand lamp do you use?
> 
> Have you ever heard of, or adhered to, the myth? that if one lamp fails, one should change the other nine on the circuit as well?



I've never used the $.84 version, I think mine are OSRAM. I get a good price from Bulbtronics, maybe $3 ea. but can't recall.

Note for all that follows, that we are talking about a 30 year old fixture and design. 

I knew it as "once 3 blown replace all". Never found it mattered, so stopped (after maybe 10 years). It's completely a moot point as the sockets on what are the 2nd generation of MiniStrips just completely suck, so lamp failure is only about 50% of the problems. Did I say the socket sucks ?. At least with the gen. 2 MiniStrip you can replace the socket. On generation 1 the socket was pop riveted in place and all the wiring and butt connectors were on top of the fixture so got all the heat. Generation 2 MiniStrip has the wiring on the back and it's a 10 minute process to change a socket. The Altman ZipStrip has a superior socket that floats and uses a round socket that makes better contact with the lamp.

I think what developed with these was about the time L&E developed this strip, so mid 1980's, the architectural market using this 12v lamp just took off, with a result of a lot of crappy sockets out there. I've yet to find one that works well, but again, an initial crappy design.

One option is to go the Altman route and use their lamp holder and socket (separate items). It's just really pricy, like about $30 for 2 lamp holders and a paired socket as they come pre-wired as series, no single sockets and if memory serves, the wire between the 2 sockets is very short, so you can't cut and separate them. Thus the cheap socket and labor doesn't warrant a $30 alternative.

If/when our $40,000 grant comes thru, we go to ColorForce, even though I don't use the cyc every show. It's the next priority, as right now I cannot rely on my cyc light making it thru a show without a strip failure.

As note to the OP, it's 180 lamps and sockets in your case, 360 in mine. Something to ponder.


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## gafftaper (Mar 16, 2016)

Unfortunately, mine are L&E mini strips so I'll be dealing with the socket problems. 

I have a set of 6 three cell Sky Cycs overhead so these would be adding a little kick from the ground. 

I saw the cheap no brand lamps but was skeptical of quality. Looks like around $3 each for lamps from Osram or Ushio.


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## ship (Mar 17, 2016)

On the subject.... Work is cleaning out the bone yard of lights not used for years. This included all 6' MR-16 Altman strips - TBA the shorter and Micro Strips. I don't get a news letter of what's going away or I will have had a lot of very good quality strobe lights to give away also... gone now. Shorter versions of MR-16 cyc's are probably also on the table for gone. When I found out about the strips, I gave away as many as I could including adding (used for one show) 35w lamps for them. Don't know how many \ if any are still waiting for give away (+tax letter) = at least something of value work can use. Those getting rid of stuff are more considered with storage space than the end results of the lights scrapped. Those removing the lights from the inventory have no lighting background and could care less. (no not persay that, lots of background with some, just less interest in the end result.) Problem = you pick them up, or pay for shipping and that won't be fun. This assuming I think more than 50 still in stock if they have not been recycled already. Scrapping perfectly good lights sucks - this especially given how much time I spent on them over the years. I would differ with the problems and difficulty with them specifically. A lot less problems I'm aware of overall though some.

Yea work sucks at times in that while I don't want strips for museum or I will have had a 1928 in it, I put a lot of work over the years into rigging and fixing the strobes just thrown out, and will have liked to at least have one. 

Worse still the demise of the DHA light curtions.... in a dumpster - multidudes of dozens of them. I know they were problematic as per the lamp buyer for them - in only a few years ago we bought a lot more fixtures for a tour, a shame. Based on when I was in school for literature about them, will have always liked to at least design with them. Gone now, and probably unique in what they would do. Some of the fixures bought for the last use even came with MFL lamps - that would be curious to see. Or at least.... in gear thrown away, some notice to the lamp buyer/stocker about what lamps are obsolete now would be nice. Year end inventory counted thousands of dollars worth of perfectly good new lamps in stobe, Light Curtain and other fixture lamps. At some point communication with what's obsolete for a lamp in stock would be good for also creating shelf space for the next and brilliant light/lamp this year for storage.

I digress...

"The newer versions also have crappy sockets, I believe due to the huge popularity of the MR16 lamp in the architectural market," I'm not buying that concept, I believe quality is the same or better dependant on socket. Lamp sockets such as G-9.5 get improvements with active popular use (wish the SFc-10-4 would, but it's a good money reason not to.) Such lamp sockets with name brand fixtures don't go down in lamp socket quality - at least since the 50's and late 70's I think in some craziness going on. If a fixture maker is buying in bulk something they tested and designed around, wouldn't they be worried about changing source for parts without a large play test of the lamp socket? Yea... rock and roll PAR 64 lamp sockets are crap and etc. But I don't think on a MR-16 a maker would change to cheaper quality given they already have OEM discount and the volume of sales is already going down due to LED's for market.

R-40's are going away more so than PAR 38's.. While really only 1/8" difference between the lamps, R-40 is something I would stay away from unless wanting to go low output CFL or obsolete first generation LED. That said, there is a concept that you might put into storage your various either R-40 or PAR-38 fixture if you have them and are upgrading. AT some point LED PAR 38 lamps will and indeed are getting towards the output and CRI of that classic 150w range for both to mount or designed around. R-40 strips will work fine wih PAR 38 lamps. Closer every year, and dimmers to do the LED PAR's are about there in being able to control them.

Won't be long until a R-40/PAR38 strip light will again work just fine given better lamps, in going LED for them I think. Put such things away, sustain the lamps - such lamps they use are still available with some work, convert to or just put them away.


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## SteveB (Mar 17, 2016)

ship said:


> On the subject....
> 
> "The newer versions also have crappy sockets, I believe due to the huge popularity of the MR16 lamp in the architectural market," I'm not buying that concept, I believe quality is the same or better dependant on socket. .



What I know is that the original Generation 1 MiniStrips had few fewer socket failures then the Generation 2 strips. It is pure speculation on my part to suggest that it's because of an increase in the numbers of sockets being manufactured for a different market, but seems likely due to the need to crank these things out in numbers, thus potential changes in design and materials. Possibly a slight change in the metal, using less of it, which changes the spring tension inherent in the socket contact. That in turn applies less pressure on the lamp, thus allowing arcing. ?. Only a guess. The manufacturer is long gone and cannot be asked.


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## gafftaper (Mar 24, 2016)

Just discovered the Ushio 1000445. It's a 60 degree flood MR 16 and they are about $2 each. SO the price is pretty good.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 13, 2019)

Does anyone have a recommendation on replacement sockets for MR 16 lamps? In an Altman Zip Strip.
I have about 500 lamps in stock, some are 5+ years old so if those are not usable about 200+ lamps. 
Because of my current stock I would not be going to LED or other socket.

I see a number of different Bi-pin adapters and ideally would like to get a multi-pack or two (like the packs I see on amazon).


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## derekleffew (Mar 13, 2019)

Mod. Note: Above post moved here from another location.


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## SteveB (Mar 13, 2019)

Peter Mahoney said:


> Does anyone have a recommendation on replacement sockets for MR 16 lamps? In an Altman Zip Strip.
> I have about 500 lamps in stock, some are 5+ years old so if those are not usable about 200+ lamps.
> Because of my current stock I would not be going to LED or other socket.
> 
> I see a number of different Bi-pin adapters and ideally would like to get a multi-pack or two (like the packs I see on amazon).



The socket used by Altman is the best for the application so would recommend it.

It has a round contact surface for each lamp pin that does a resonable job of getting good contact with the lamp. 

The alternatives as used by the L&E design had the socket only making contact on the side of tha lamp pin. In my experiences, this leads to contact deterioration. Note that the L&E design is a common type used in about every architectural MR16 I’ve seen, where the socket and lamp holder is a one piece unit. Some arch. sockets have a separate floating cap, but they are not used in MR16 strips that I’ve seen.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 15, 2019)

SteveB said:


> The socket used by Altman is the best for the application so would recommend it.
> 
> It has a round contact surface for each lamp pin that does a resonable job of getting good contact with the lamp.
> 
> The alternatives as used by the L&E design had the socket only making contact on the side of tha lamp pin. In my experiences, this leads to contact deterioration. Note that the L&E design is a common type used in about every architectural MR16 I’ve seen, where the socket and lamp holder is a one piece unit. Some arch. sockets have a separate floating cap, but they are not used in MR16 strips that I’ve seen.



Thanks for the information Steve, luckily I do not have any of the L&E types to deal with.

I was actually trying to figure out what I need to take into account when replacing the original sockets (which look like these). Standard 3 circuit Altman Zip Strip.



Could I replace them with the sockets in this Bi-Pin or similar multi-packs, which are on Amazon? Or a trusted brand someone has used over the years that I could get a bulk discount on.
At the moment my current understanding is that as long as the socket is able to handle 12 V then I should be good.


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## SteveB (Mar 15, 2019)

Peter Mahoney said:


> Thanks for the information Steve, luckily I do not have any of the L&E types to deal with.
> 
> I was actually trying to figure out what I need to take into account when replacing the original sockets (which look like these). Standard 3 circuit Altman Zip Strip.
> 
> ...



I know the Altmans are pretty pricey. As well I seem to recall they wired them up as pair, so you were having to cut down to individuals.

I would be giving the linked items a shot. They have round sockets so should be OK.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 15, 2019)

I ordered some off Amazon to try. With the amount of failures I have to fix and will most likely need to fix some of the larger packs on Amazon look good.
Time will tell what the quality of the sockets are.


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## DrewE (Mar 18, 2019)

Peter Mahoney said:


> At the moment my current understanding is that as long as the socket is able to handle 12 V then I should be good.



Do be aware that when one of the bulbs burns out, that socket will see the full line voltage across its terminals. No current through the series-connected lamps means that the other bulbs will not have any voltage drop (as per ohm's law). I'd think for that reason the socket should be rated for 120V AC operation.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 18, 2019)

DrewE said:


> Do be aware that when one of the bulbs burns out, that socket will see the full line voltage across its terminals. No current through the series-connected lamps means that the other bulbs will not have any voltage drop (as per ohm's law). I'd think for that reason the socket should be rated for 120V AC operation.



Most of the listings had a Max Working Voltage of 250V. 
Some listed Max Working as AC/DC 12V/250V.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 19, 2019)

I was wondering if anyone had a link to a how to or method for replacing the socket in a Altman Zip Strip, MR 16.
I bought replacement MR 16 sockets and am trying to find information on what to use to splice the Zip Strip wire with the new socket. My inclination and that of our maintenance department is to use wire nuts. However I am concerned about the temperature that the wire nuts will need to withstand.

If you have replaced sockets in an Altman Zip Strip what method worked best for you?

Thank you for your time.


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## STEVETERRY (Mar 19, 2019)

You need to use ceramic wire nuts, available here:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=ceramic+...8&hvtargid=kwd-7714990793&tag=controlbooth-20

ST


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## ship (Mar 20, 2019)

Never use wire nuts!!! They tend to fall off be it bouncing about the theater in going to storage or between pipes, or especially riding about the world in a trailer between shows. Sorry. McMaster Carr #7971k41 is probably the proper high temp. butt splice for the gauge of wire. (Stakon tool or Klien #1006 to crimp) Three layers of tapered #69 High Temp fiberglass electrical tape to insulate it. Otherwise if more than one wire - Ideal as offered McMaster 6878k95, when the various wires are in a ferrule has never been known to fall off. Once crimped ferrule or into the set screw high temp. wire nut, about an inch from the nut use a few layers of high temp. tape or a high temperature cable tie to tie what wires are going into the wire nut together in helping strain relief. Again sorry, wire nuts including ceramic or high temp. plastic normal ones fall off. A better way to do this for our industry above.


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## Peter Mahoney (Mar 20, 2019)

Thanks @STEVETERRY and @ship . Yesterday I ordered a couple ceramic twist nuts to try (about 15 NSI made ones), since the lights are moving vertically on rigging and will not be traveling around in a trailer etc.
The butt splices may be the way to go as they seem to be more economical than the ceramic twist ons. $10 for a pack of 100 butt splices (+$13-20 for the tape) vs $50+ for 100 ceramic twist ons.


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## ship (Mar 21, 2019)

Fair enough in consideration done and hope I did not offend Steve. Not the method I would do or recommend but a method you chose that has been in use for over a hundred years now in splicing high temp.

Make sure those wire nuts are tight even if not traveling about. If you find slipage when tight and it going more in twisting - take it off, figure out if you broke strands, re-terminate or (assuming twisted together wire can be of debate and shouldn't always be done - my opinion for this case.) Start over in leaving some strains longer in stripping, fold back the strands so as to make a larger package inside the wire nut. Re-try. "Good enough" is not a wire nut you can still twist with effort. Do a pull test on the conductors after terminated to ensure none pull out. Also do the strain relief an inch below the wire nut with the high temp. tape or high temp. wire tie. Taping over the wire nut should make you suspicious in a never do. It might help prevent it from coming un-done, but should also make the next person seeing it suspicious.


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