# Facility Rental Rate



## carsonld (Mar 3, 2019)

Hi all!

I am the technical director at a high school performing arts center. We have three high schools with auditoriums as well as on junior high. I have a meeting coming up to discuss rental rates, policies, etc. I am rather young and do not have as much experience with the rates for other venues. I think I'm good on policies we need to add as I have found many topics on facebook groups. However, no one really posts about their rates. Below I have listed how the district has us charging the space. Also attached is an invoice that shows an example of the billing. 

Performing Arts Center - $250 an hour

Stage and house
Two 10 people dressing rooms (includes bathroom, shower, and vanity mirrors)
One 30 person dressing rooms (includes bathroom, shower, and vanity mirrors)
Small space for judges lounge (includes sink)
Lobby
Box office and concession space
Required Staffing:

$18 - Technical Director
$18 - Custodian
$9 - Technician (not required but I like to have one or two students from the technical theatre class there to help with dance recitals and competitions.)
Additional Rooms:

Gymnasium - $100 per hour
Commons - $100 per hour
Lecture Center - $100 per hour
Most competitions need more dressing space than the three dressing rooms. I will rent out the lecture center lobby which is directly behind the crossover and a very large open room. For bigger competitions, I will rent out two locker rooms. I usually just charge half of the required rental fee for these rooms. Most competitions use all three of those spaces so an additional $150 to the room fee. I also don't charge them for those spaces when they are loading in.

So my question is: how much do you all charge? The TD at one of the high schools thinks the rate is too low and wants to raise it. I don't care what we do, I just don't want to jack our rates up so high no one rents the space. Personally, I think the rates are fine where they are. I am at the newest high school and its still very nice. Our space has great technology, an ample amount of space, and is well taken care of.

Thanks for your input. If you have any suggestions on policies or fees, it's greatly appreciated. If you'd rather not post what you charge you can private message me.


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## Jay Ashworth (Mar 3, 2019)

I think you're gonna find you'll want to do "3-hr block" or "4-hr block" minimum, plus overage time, plus overtime-overage.

You'll probably also want to do discounts for non-profits, and for multi-day rentals, and at least unofficial discounts for regular renters, or people who pre-reserve multiple shows in a year, if that happens.

If those chargeable techs are paid, make sure you're marking them up enough; our markup is like 175-200% over what we get paid.

Your base rate will depend on the size of the facility and how well it's equipped, too; are you getting that $250 rate now?


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## Amiers (Mar 3, 2019)

Pay your staffing twice that and raise your rental to accommodate. 

Even high school students won’t work for 9$ an hour on an overhire spot. 

As far as not jacking up your rates. You should just for the PM that comes with the space. People will realize your rates are low and use and abuse your facility til it’s run down and broke. Then when you raise the rates they won’t want to pay for it and move on to another cheaper venue.


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## Jay Ashworth (Mar 3, 2019)

"just for the PM"?

Yay, speech-rec!


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## Amiers (Mar 3, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> "just for the PM"?
> 
> Yay, speech-rec!



Preventative Maintenance not the Production manager. :laughingemoji:


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## TimMc (Mar 3, 2019)

Can't give specifics about event rentals in public school facilities as I don't work in one.... but our city's PAC rents in quarter-day increments, and by use. An auditorium rental also gets standard use of lobby, staffed (contract vendor) concessions, and some of the dressing rooms (there are 3 theaters in the complex). Non-theater spaces are separately priced but follow the same quarter-day increments and use factors.

Performances get the highest rate, rehearsals the next down, etc until it's an overnight "storage only" use between rehearsals/performances. The primary use of each quarter day determines the billing category.

Stage hands are required, the quantity and type determined by the facility use. Ex: symphony rehearsal requires 1 on the deck and electrician in the booth; symphony performance requires 3 - carp, audio, electrician. More (props) if pianos/large insturments are moved or the stage is re-set (chairs, music stands) between numbers, and when the stage is set/struck (4 hand minimum) at the beginning of the week and after the final performance.

Your space is expensive and promotes fast moves in and out, and that's when facility damages occur.


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## carsonld (Mar 3, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> I think you're gonna find you'll want to do "3-hr block" or "4-hr block" minimum, plus overage time, plus overtime-overage.
> 
> You'll probably also want to do discounts for non-profits, and for multi-day rentals, and at least unofficial discounts for regular renters, or people who pre-reserve multiple shows in a year, if that happens.
> 
> ...



So there is a required 4 hour minimum for space. Additionally, they are required to pay a total of 4 hours of set up and strike for the technicians before and after their events is in the space. Currently, I get 50% of whatever is paid for the facility fee. This is something I just got accomplished. So I am trying to bring in more competitions. But with more competition comes more maintenance and the likelihood of things getting damaged. Do you have a certain formula/technique you use when discounting the space? We have a Kindergarten private school rent the space for their graduation. I usually just charge them $500 for everything. I do that as I know they are making any money off of this event.

@TimMc and @Amiers 

Would you say the price for the room is rather fair? Again, that maintenance is something I am starting to worry about.


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## Jay Ashworth (Mar 3, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Preventative Maintenance not the Production manager. :laughingemoji:


Oh: 

"You should, just for the PM that comes with renting the space".

I assumed it had missed "adjust"...


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## Amiers (Mar 3, 2019)

I mean everything is somewhat situational. 

Regular rentals should get some sort of discount. 

And the bigger the event gets the bigger the price for everything goes up. 

Private schools are making hand over fist in money. You are selling yourself and your space short. 

Personally I think you should double or triple everything and then set 1/3 of the money aside for rainy day fund. If you have that power. 

If not then raise the rate 4x in your proposal and see where the powers settle at. 
Then pay your Techs a reasonable wage. Good techs = non damaged equipment. 

Give facilities manager a bump in rate will get him/her to care a little more and not lettting those step lights be burned out for weeks. Especially if your events happen on the weekends and holidays. 

Finally shoot for the moon and see who likes what. There is nothing wrong with overpricing as it gives you room to negotiate with those regulars or groups that love the space but just don’t have the bankroll to support it.


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## Jay Ashworth (Mar 3, 2019)

carsonld said:


> ...But with more competition comes more maintenance and the likelihood of things getting damaged. Do you have a certain formula/technique you use when discounting the space?...
> 
> Would you say the price for the room is rather fair? Again, that maintenance is something I am starting to worry about.



Another thing to think about here is this:

Your real goal here is *justifying the price increase to your own chain of command*; you have to do that first, or you'll have trouble justifying it to clients. 

If you can generate an Annual Maintenance Cost Report, tagging specific items that are renter-attributable, that will probably help on that front. Anything they can recover from renters doesn't have to come out of their own budget... but you have to make sure that percentage is allocated on someone's books, too.


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## Ben Stiegler (Mar 4, 2019)

To me it depends hugely on your market. Are you in NYC or a small rural town? And ... survey the competition. But always know your costs, both immediate and deferred maint (lamps, carpet cleaning, roof, emergency plumbing repairs, etc.) so you know where your minimum is. See if the district can tell you how much is spent on maint annually. Perhaps all the PACs are pooled in one budget and you need to support your older “siblings”. 

Most often these maint costs are a lot more than imagined.

Finally .. insurance. Do renters need their own policy, or are they riding on yours? What’s the potential upchsrge on your premium after the first slip and fall claim?

Lots to think about

Ben


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## macsound (Mar 4, 2019)

Also something to take into account is how is the space being used?
In spaced I've been on the renting side and spaces where I rent, the prices are different if the client is charging partons for tickets.

For example in a 800 seat theatre not including labor:
Load in $400
Rehearsal $1000
Free Event $1000
Paid Event $3500 or 3.5% of ticket revenue, whichever is greater + 20% of concessions including merch. 

Labor prices were always the same, didn't matter what type of event. This was assuming 4hr minimum, 1.5x time after 11pm or over 8 hours, 2x time after 11pm and over 8 hours. 
House Manager: $25/hr
Box office $20/hr (minimum 2 people)
Assistant SM $50/hr (assuming you have your own SM)
Rail operator $100/hr (you cannot provide your own)
Security $45/hr (2 required for load in/out)
Custodial was included in space rental unless you use confetti or the like


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## gafftaper (Mar 4, 2019)

I run a high school P.A.C. in the Seattle area. 415 seat proscenium theater, greenroom, two smaller attached dressing rooms, lobby and use of all standard equipment in the space (i.e. no extra charge to use video projector or grand piano). We don't have different prices for rehearsals or reoccurring rentals, everyone in your class pays the same rate. But we have 6 classifications of rental rates... which is a bit crazy.

Here are some sample rates:
Non-profit Youth organizations where 65% of the members are located in the school district boundaries pay $61 per hour (Boys and girls club or a dance school for kids)
Non-profit Adult organziaztions where 65% of the members are located in the school district boundaries pay $123 per hour (A church or a choral club for adults)
Non-profit organizations where 65% of the members DON'T live within the school district boundaries pay $205 per hour (Any non-profit located from outside of this immediate area)
For-profit organizations pay $255 per hour.

Typical Cleaning fees are : $180

Crew:
We charge $35 an hour for standard crew labor, they are IATSE and make around $27. We've got some college students who are alumni they are higher skilled than the crew kids, but not ready for the union test, they make $19.50 and we charge $21.50. Students get paid $12 to work and we charge $13.50. Most rentals have a crew of 3 people.

My rates are a lot different than those in previous posts, but are very competitive in this area. We have a theater about a mile away that's almost exactly the same size, their rates are very similar, except they nickel and dime the renters with add on charges for for all kinds of stuff so I've had a lot of renters trying to switch over to here to save money. I'm booked basically every weekend and we should probably raise the rates.


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## gafftaper (Mar 4, 2019)

Ben Stiegler said:


> Finally .. insurance. Do renters need their own policy, or are they riding on yours? What’s the potential upchsrge on your premium after the first slip and fall claim?


We require them to have a fairly standard insurance policy that most businesses already carry. In addition we require them to take out a special policy that basically is to protect, me, my crew, the district, even the school board is specifically listed in the policy. If we get sued because of something during a renter's event, we have a protection too.

I believe this policy costs them about $150 extra.


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## Jay Ashworth (Mar 4, 2019)

An event liability rider, yes.


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## BeentoBrazil (Mar 6, 2019)

Hello, all!

I manage a 925 seat PAC in a suburb of Des Moines, IA. We have been comparing our rates with the facilities around us. According to our rates, and those of our fellow PAC's, you're undercharging. That, of course, will depend upon your market.

For out-of-district for-profit competitions, our summed rate is $595/hour. Included in that rate are the following:
Theater stage and seating, green room, two small dressing rooms, and lobby;
2) technicians (required unless yours are qualified to our standards) ($25/hr each);
3) event supervisors (required for all rentals) ($25/hr each);
2) custodians at all times (not sure of rate, as I am typing from home)

We also require a hired police officer at all rentals, paid directly by the renter.

All personnel are a 4 hour minimum call. Minimum rental is also 4 hours.

A detail I had to figure out as I went is how to avoid over-fatiguing your people. Students have labor laws to help protect them, but you'll still need to train more of them than you think you'll need, because you'll need them sooner or later. Custodians and other everyday school staff have to go back to regular duties on Monday, unless your venue has a dedicated custodial staff. Additionally, if you're responsible for the day-to-day operations, you'll need to use blackouts to get some rest yourself.

Here is the best itemization I have found in my area. We are taking some guidance from this publicly posted list: https://cdn.wdmcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Fee-Schedule.pdf


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## BeentoBrazil (Mar 6, 2019)

I forgot to mention that we require all renters to carry a $1M insurance policy.


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