# Check me here guys...(Jands Vista/Chauvet ColorStrip)



## theatre4jc (Aug 13, 2009)

Okay here's my situation. I purchased a few cheap Chauvet Color Strip LEDs to light a few panels. Higher end gear was beyond my budget for this project and even if I could afford it quality units were overkill. I am using a Jands Vista S3 and when I load the profile for the light I get this random flashing. Not the typical flicker associated with dimming. The unit actually flashes other colors randomly. I have full dimming control, DMX is good and clean. This is happening with all 12 of my fixtures. I'm thinking the issue is in the fixture profile so this is what I'm thinking of trying.

The fixture uses 4 channels of DMX, Channel 1 for "Fixture Mode" (with a range that sets it in RGB mode), Channels 2-4 for RGB respectively. The vista profile adds a master control for intensity. I want to bypass this so here is my thought. I'll use a generic RGB LED profile that does not include intensity. But since that is only a 3 channel profile I'll use a generic dimmer for the fixture mode (channel 1). On the patch I'll make the generic dimmer channel 1 and then the generic LED for channels 2-4. This would by pass the intensity control that I think is my problem. Do you guys think this might work. Am I correct in assuming the LED will read the DMX like normal even though the profile is for a dimmer? I asked for help on the Jands Vista forum but so far have not gotten a reply.


----------



## derekleffew (Aug 13, 2009)

Sounds like a reasonable workaround, but I don't think it's going to solve your problem. See this post http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/9943-chauvet-led-colorbank.html#post119221 and the entire thread.


----------



## tyler.martin (Aug 16, 2009)

Hmmm, I was on a corporate gig this past week, and had a similar problem. We were using a GrandMA Ultralight, and some Microh LED P64's. The Ma did not have a profile for them so our programmer did the exact same thing you did, and it did work. Just a Generic RGB LED Profile, and one Channel of Dimming... Give it a shot and let us know!


----------



## MillburyAuditorium (Aug 17, 2009)

Well, As I know for DJ lighting, there are strobe features that will cycle through every possible color the light can make. Its so DJs can be lazy. Make sure the dip switches are set right, you are using DMX not XLR cables, and be sure the sub master slider for Strobe on the fixture is down. Get all the submasters that contol the unit, I think there are 5 or 6, (My par can, has one for blue, one for red, one for green, one for strobe, one for itnensity, and one that cycles through colors.), And just take each slider and move it to full and back down to 0. And do it for each slider, dj quality lights being cheaper tend to do this, so it would be worht a try to do th 0-100 100-0 thing I explained : )


----------



## Brownlight (Aug 17, 2009)

I have had some problems with Jans/ Vista and Chauvet. What I found was that If I put a DMX spiltter and boasted the DMX output of the board all my problem went away. weird but it work ?


----------



## JChenault (Aug 17, 2009)

You might want to try using the standard profile, but setting the faux intensity channel to full. I would expect (based on logic, not experience ) that if the 'Master intensity' control is set to full, that the RGB should just be output at full values.

John


----------



## jmabray (Aug 17, 2009)

The random flashing you are describing is due to the low quality DMX transciever chip with the Colorstrip not being able to take 44 times a second refresh rate on the DMX. As I understand it the buffer fills up and just kinda freaks out.

However, there is hope - If there is a way to slow your DMX speed down coming out of the console, I would try that. 

I had this same issue with these exact fixtures a year or so ago with an ION console. I was able to slow the DMX speed down and there was no further issues. I was not able to slow it down enough on the Expression console to get it to work though - Just the ION.

You might also try calling Chauvet directly. Their tech support knew about this issue and said a fix was being worked on - but I don't know if they were able to come up with something yet.

Good Luck!


----------



## theatre4jc (Aug 18, 2009)

Okay was checking other sites and forums for any possible ways around this issue. My console will not change the dmx refresh rate and I read another suggestion but sadly there was no reply to see if it actually worked. It seems the lower the light is addressed the less there is a flicker because it has less time to receive packets, I guess? Anyway the suggestion was put the LEDs as an address of 1 and have some other fixture set at the highest output for the board, which for me would be an address of 510 for my hazer. The thought behind this is that it would give the most time possible from when the light first receives the DMX packet to when it next receives the next refresh rate. 

I'm skeptical if this would work. Worth a try. Think I'm wasting my time by trying it?


----------



## Kelite (Aug 19, 2009)

It's worth a try David, though the actual time delay won't be very much. Even if he is a sales guy, Jamey Brock has been hawking DMX related good at Martin Professional for quite a few years and may have an opinion regarding the Chauvet's care and feeding.

jbrock @ iluminarc . com


(And please tell him Keith from Apollo says YO!)


----------



## derekleffew (Sep 18, 2009)

theatre4jc, have you resolved your issue yet? If so, what was the solution?


----------



## theatre4jc (Sep 18, 2009)

I have not. When I put the LED strips addressed at 1 and my hazer at 511 the flashing dropped considerably but didn't go away. When I addressed the unit at 5 the flashes were noticeably bad.

I had to stop working on the issue because I left the country for a short tour in South Africa. Once I got back I haven't had time to get back to the issue due to more pressing issues. 

Can't change the data rate on my console, but am hoping to find an inline device that can alter refresh rates. Sadly I haven't yet but have not given up hope.


----------



## traviswill (Mar 8, 2010)

Were you ever able to work the porblem out? I'm having the same issue and Jands has been of no help. I would surely appreciate any new suggestions you have.


----------



## theatre4jc (Mar 8, 2010)

I've not got it fixed. I did finally talk to someone at Chauvet that would actually admit that the light is a POS and had known issues. He then told me that Doug Fleener does make an inline device that will slow the DMX rate, which has been known to fix the issue. If your system uses programable nodes you might be able to try that route. I've not attempted this yet because I do not have any nodes in the room these units are in, but I do have some ETC NET2 nodes in another room and I've been thinking of slowing the output rate down from them and see if that fixes it. Might put a couple into the mix and try it. 

But the official Jands view is there is nothing they can do. Because of this light they tried to add in a feature to slow the DMX rate from the console, but it was far to unstable to release to the public. Maybe Byron will be able to solve this, but I'm not holding my breath. Till then I just run them as a static light with a quick snap change of colors.


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

I am not a Jands user but here is what ETC did to fix the problem. I would guess that with a bit of encouraging and perhaps sending a color strip to Jands they could fix this for you

AdamBennette replied on 11-05-2009 3:19 AM
rated by 0 users

Hello,

yes, this has been solved in the current version 2.1.1 We adjusted some of the slower DMX settings to be more suitable to the Chavet products which are unable to receive DMX at full speed.

Please update your console and SmartSoft to the latest version. SmartSoft 2.0.1 (which includes SmartFadeML 2.1.1 inside) is available here: Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC Enter SmartSoft as the keyword and Software as the download type.

If you do not use SmartSoft you can download the console software independently. Enter SmartFade as the keyword and Software as the download type. You need version SmartFadeML 2.1.1

here is the forum overall link

Yes is is a Chauvet fault but Jands should be able to fix it 

Chauvet Colorstrip Flickers no matter what DMX Speed is used - happened after 2.0 upgrade - Electronic Theatre Controls


Sharyn


----------



## jmabray (Mar 9, 2010)

> Yes is is a Chauvet fault but Jands should be able to fix it



I disagree with you - This is entirely Chauvet's fault. They have made a fixture that does not respond to industry standard DMX. When I talked to the guys at Chauvet about it at their booth at LDI, they blew me off completely telling me that they only had 8 or so complaints about this issue and as this was one of their highest selling fixtures, they weren't going to go back and fix the issue. (Talk about your flawed logic... but I digress)

These fixtures are made as cheaply as possible and sold for the highest margin that they can get away with. Well that's what a company is supposed to do, right? Yes, they are, but they are also supposed to do what is right and fix issues that their customers bring to their attention. When they don't do that, that's what chaps my a**. Chauvet is relying upon other companies to devote time and resources to fix their issue and not taking responsibility for it themselves. 

I brought the issue to ETC's and Chauvet's attention a good year and a half ago now. They have known about it at least that long. ETC took the time to go out and have Chauvet ship them a fixture and re-write some of their software to fix the issue. Chauvet basically told me to F'off.

Nice.....


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

While I agree with you that it is Chauvet's fault, I disagree with what is the LIKELY solution. Jands like ETC realize that excellent customer service is important no matter who's fault it is, and will resolve the issues. It would be interesting to see what ETC actually did but I get the impression that the Chauvet unit technically fits the spec but has a problem at the margins of timing, there have been a few tweeks to the DMX spec over time on the between times that mark the beginning and end.

I followed up with Milton Davis and Doug Fleenor Design has a product called DMX2DMX-5 (or DMX Decelerator ) with Chauvet Output Software, the output is specifically set up to drive the Chauvet fixtures. It looks like a 123 splitter wut with one DMX in and one DMX out list price is 772.20 so it is not an inexpensive solution.

Milton does say that Chauvet's comment was we are aware of the issue but we have decided we are not going to do anything about it...

So maybe a campaign from members to complain to Chauvet and maybe we can get Bill who is a dealer to put more pressure on Chauvet

Chauvet's email is [email protected]

Sharyn 

Sharyn


----------



## jmabray (Mar 9, 2010)

Just curious... What makes you think that Chauvet's equipment meets the spec. Transmitting DMX is easy. Receiving it is more difficult. (There are slight differences in what is allowable to be transmitted and this is why it is more difficult.) 

If everybody else's fixtures can transmit and receive just fine but these can't it would seem that they are the ones that don't meet spec. (never mind the fact that it has been tested and proven to be the case.) It's close... but not close enough.

I understand that Jands and ETC and others can and, most likely, will pick up the slack for a negligent and unresponsive manufacturer, but why should they have to. Chauvet should grow a pair, admit that this is an issue, and fix it. If they did that - they would gain more in respect garnered than it cost them to do so.

As it is right now, I will not even come close to reccomending any of their products to any of my customers and will actively tell them to go to another manufacturer - not based upon their initial product - but rather solely based upon their response when the problem arose.


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

So we just were able to get a technical description of exactly what the problem is with the color strips from Milton Davis of Doug Fleenor Design:


> The issue is that the Chauvet fixture can not cope with consecutive DMX bytes with no time between the bytes. The DMX specification says that the time between consecutive bytes can be 0 seconds to as much as 1 full second. A large percentage of control consoles produce no time between bytes. The Chauvet fixture doesn't have enough processing "horsepower" to take in the byte and prepare for the next one if they are sent back-to-back with no time between them. The result is flickering or shifting of levels. In order to operate correctly, we add about 40 microseconds (0.000040 seconds) of dead time (also called "marking" time) between DMX bytes. This allows the fixture enough time to receive the data byte and get ready for the next one. Some consoles such as the newer ones from ETC take care of this issue by adding the appropriate dead time when their DMX outputs are set to the "slow" mode. The resulting output update rate for their consoles or our interface is about 25 Hz. Our interface doesn't care what the incoming update rate is. We take in the data, put it in a table and transmit it with timing parameters that the Chauvet fixture can cope with. The incoming data rate and the outgoing packets are completely disconnected in terms of timing; only the DMX data is passed along.



Sharyn


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

where I was coming from was using the Wikie

Timing

DMX512 timing parameters are allowed to vary over a wide range. The original authors specified the standard this way to provide the greatest design flexibility. Because of this, however, it was difficult to design receivers that operated over the entire timing range. As a result of this difficulty, the timing specification of the original 1986 standard was changed in 1990. Specifically, the MAB, which was originally fixed at 4 μs, was changed to 8 μs, minimum. The E1.11 (2004) standard relaxed the transmitter and receiver timing specifications. This relaxed the timing requirements for systems using controllers built to DMX512-A (E1.11); however, a significant number of legacy devices still employ transmit timing near the minimum end of the range.
-- Min Break (μs) Min MAB (μs)
Transmitted 92 12
Receiver recognize 88 8

Maximum times are not specified because as long as a packet is sent at least once per second, the BREAK, MAB, inter-slot time, and the mark between the last slot of the packet and the break (MBB) can be as long as desired.

A maximum-sized packet, which has 512 channels (slots following the start code), takes approximately 23 ms to send, corresponding to a maximum refresh rate of about 44 Hz. For higher refresh rates, packets having fewer than 512 channels can be sent.

The standard does not specify the minimum number of slots that can be sent in a packet. However, it does require that packets be transmitted so that the leading edges of any two sequential BREAKs must be separated by at least 1204 μs, and receivers must be able to handle packets with break-to-break times a short as 1196 μs.[2] The minimum break-to-break transmit time can be achieved by sending packets that contain at least 24 slots (by adding extra padding bytes, if necessary) or by stretching parameters such as the BREAK, MAB, Interslot, or Interpacket times.


Sharyn


----------



## starksk (Mar 9, 2010)

jmabray said:


> It's close... but not close enough....


 

SHARYNF said:


> So we just were able to get a technical description of exactly what the problem is with the color strips from Milton Davis of Doug Fleenor Design
> 
> The issue is that the Chauvet fixture can not cope with consecutive DMX bytes with no time between the bytes. The DMX specification says that the time between consecutive bytes can be 0 seconds to as much as 1 full second. A large percentage of control consoles produce no time between bytes. The Chauvet fixture doesn't have enough processing "horsepower" to take in the byte and prepare for the next one if they are sent back-to-back with no time between them. The result is flickering or shifting of levels. In order to operate correctly, we add about 40 microseconds (0.000040 seconds) of dead time (also called "marking" time) between DMX bytes. This allows the fixture enough time to receive the data byte and get ready for the next one. Some consoles such as the newer ones from ETC take care of this issue by adding the appropriate dead time when their DMX outputs are set to the "slow" mode. The resulting output update rate for their consoles or our interface is about 25 Hz. Our interface doesn't care what the incoming update rate is. We take in the data, put it in a table and transmit it with timing parameters that the Chauvet fixture can cope with. The incoming data rate and the outgoing packets are completely disconnected in terms of timing; only the DMX data is passed along.
> 
> Sharyn


 
jmabray got it right. SHARYNF's explaination of the problem is also accurate. Because of the interbyte timing needed by the fixture, they do not meet appropriate timing guidelines.

Here is information about DMX Speeds and timing that is implemented on ETC Products from our Wiki Article:




We, ETC, adjusted the timing speed of our "slow" setting to compensate and allow for the extra timing required by the Chauvet fixture. (They required a 46μs interbyte time)

We also discussed with them about how to change their fixture to meet spec, but they declined to take action.

Edit: Sorry for the simulpost


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

So if we can get a lot of CB members to all email Chauvet we MIGHT be able to get them to change their stance. In many cases it is like the whole Toyota deal, if the manufacturer thinks there are only a few folks with the problem or that they can just ignore them, some do just that


SO if most of the cb member would email [email protected] we might be able to get them to understand that:

Products that claim to have DMX support need to meet the specification
Companies that ignore customer issues with valid complaints run the risk of serious loss of future sales. There are a LOT of folks here on CB, and quite a number of them are Influencers or Recommenders or Direct Purchasers. Having these folks be negative on Chauvet is not a situation to ignore

Here is the PR contact

Contact: Ann Feltgen
Public Relations Specialist
CHAUVET
954-929-1115, ext. 47

E-mail: [email protected] 


Sharyn


----------



## jmabray (Mar 9, 2010)

Good luck, but I am out on that. When I went strait to the product manager on the Floor at LDI and he lies to my face (by telling me they have only had 8 complaints about the product), he's lost my respect, as well as any effort on my part that could result in his future sales.

When he tells me that this is one of their number 1 products and won't take a small amount of the profit they have made and correct an issue with the fixture, it chaps my tushie.


----------



## Esoteric (Mar 9, 2010)

There is a reason why I don't buy Chauvet gear. They have always had these problems. Elation had them for quite some time but recently fixed them. In fact Elation (and Strand) have come a long way recently to the point where I will actually spec their gear (for the purposes it was meant for). I still will not touch Chauvet with a 10 meter pole.

Mike


----------



## jmabray (Mar 9, 2010)

I'd have to agree, Mike. The Elation gear I have played with recently has been much better than I thought it would be.

Strand's problem has never been their gear itself - just the repair services once it broke. (Not saying that it was any more prone to breaking than anything else. Everything breaks - no matter how well it's made.)


----------



## Esoteric (Mar 9, 2010)

Yeah, Elation has come a long way. I have even thought about buying a few of their Design series moving lights. You just have to use it for what it was meant for.

Well, back in the day Strand stuff used to feel cheap (the plastic on their consoles constantly broke, and their keys were small and wierd shaped, the effects engine was difficult to use, their instrument parts never worked right, shutters, lens trays quit sliding, and their optics were bad, their dimmers were huge with very little function, although the CD80 racks were bulletproof, even though they weigh a ton) and their customer service sucked. But they made a hell of a Fresnel.

But now, they have totally turned around the customer service, I am still not a fan of the ERS units, still love their Fresnels, their dimmers are teriffic products now and I hope to get behind a Pallette soon. But their service is great now!

Chauvet is still DJ junk.

Mike


----------



## theatre4jc (Mar 9, 2010)

SHARYNF said:


> I am not a Jands user but here is what ETC did to fix the problem. I would guess that with a bit of encouraging and perhaps sending a color strip to Jands they could fix this for you




A lot of people have stated that ETC decided to fix it for Chauvet. Jands tried this, but with the way their software is written lowering the DMX transmit rate made the Jands software unstable. The Jands decision was to protect the credibility of their product and not worry about fixing Chauvet's mistakes. Even though I want it fixed, I agree with that stance. 

Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

While I agree that it is an Chauvet issue, our conversation with Milton at Doug Fleenor seems to point to this being a problem with a lot of the chinese dmx receivers.

Milton Shared what the specific problem was and the solution, so Jands might be able to impliment a fix that is still stable

Basically it is not the overall transmission rate but it is the need to increase the dead time between transmissions of bytes

If you look at the ETC and the Fleenor solution the consoles to support these slower dmx receivers need to add about 46 microseconds between sending each byte

Here is Milton's details:

> The DMX data lines have two possible states. When data + is high and data -
> is low, this is called a marking state. This is also called the idle state.
> When the reverse is true (data + is low and data - is high), this is called
> a break state. If the line is held in a break state for at least 88 us,
> ...



so based on this information Jands might be able to impliment a solution that is still stable. 

Sharyn


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

theatre4jc said:


> A lot of people have stated that ETC decided to fix it for Chauvet. Jands tried this, but with the way their software is written lowering the DMX transmit rate made the Jands software unstable. The Jands decision was to protect the credibility of their product and not worry about fixing Chauvet's mistakes. Even though I want it fixed, I agree with that stance.
> 
> Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.



I do not think that the credibility of Jands Product is at stake. I am guessing that without a Chauvet unit they looked at a general solution that caused problems. I think that going forward a lot of folks that may for a variety of reasons buy cheaper units are going to start to have problems with the dmx receiver. At one time some consoles had the option of setting on the output or a universe a slower DMX rate. It might be worth talking to Jands again re the specifics of the solution presented above.

Or or course just buy the Fleenor unit or dump the Colorstrips or live with it 

Sharyn


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 9, 2010)

theatre4jc said:


> ... Chauvet has 2 product lines, the "professional" and the "dj". Basically like American DJ and Elation. Instead of two different brandings Chauvet just has 1. I've never had an issue with the Chauvet "professional" line and will continue to purchase them because for the price to quality its a good value. If, like Mike said, you use them for what they are made for. Now that I'm an educated consumer to what the cheaper Chauvet fixtures are like I'll spend the extra $100 and purchase their low end "professional" fixtures for small needs. But yes I do despise their mindset and business practice for not fixing this issue.



Furthering what is said above, here is an unofficial quote from a representative of Chauvet:


> Yes, our DJ fixtures are not intended for use in professional theatrical
> applications. The colors are not as consistent as would be demanded for
> professional applications and control is intended for pre-programmed stand
> alone playback, or via the macros, and not full DMX control. They are
> ...



I see by the interwebs/grapevine that CB member Ford Sellers has just taken a position as Sr Product Development Manager at CHAUVET, so we'll soon have an ally there, one who understands our needs and desires.


----------



## jmabray (Mar 9, 2010)

Derek-

Then they shouldn't market the fixture as being able to be controlled via DMX as they do. (Never mind that they use 3 pin connectors.... )

COLORstrip? | CHAUVET Lighting

SHARYNF -

And I go back to my original question - Why should Jands (or ETC or whoever) have to alter a product that plainly and clearly and very consistently follows the standard that has been outlined to something that is non standard. Why should we even bother with standards then?

And again - this isn't anything about our needs and desires. This is about claiming things that are untrue. Don't claim that it can be DMX controlled, if it doesn't meet the specs. 

Colors being consistent across batches (binning) is one thing that I can deal with when it comes to low cost fixtures. That is a case of getting what you paid for. But to be told that the fixture can be DMX controlled when MANY INDUSTRY STANDARD controllers cannot reliably control the fixture seems to be a pretty blatant falsehood to me.

I know that it's usually not a good thing to name a specific manufacturer or issue in a setting like this, but I think they blew that when they blew me off in the manner in which they did. 

If Mr. Sellers would like to address this issue and do something about it, then I will take back what I have said. However, until that happens, I stand behind it.

And with that - I will get off my soapbox and put away my megaphone. Thanks for listening to me rant.

On the other hand, we had really beautiful weather here today... How about you?


----------



## SHARYNF (Mar 9, 2010)

I guess there are a few things here that I would like to comment on:

On is that Jands and Etc and any other company does not HAVE to alter their system to support another companies errors. Some companies look to support their companies and will go out of their way to do things to help them even if it is not their fault.

There is a famous and true story about Nordstroms noted for its excellent customer service. One day in the store in San Francisco a customer came in complaining that the tires he had bought had fallen apart in a few months with the tread separating from the tire. The Manager asked the man how much did you pay for them and proceeded to give him a full refund. The clerk standing by was amazed, and said to the manager, "We Don't even sell tires? what are you doing" 

The Manager replied he is an excellent customer and I will do anything to make him happy"


The second issue, here is more fundamental to CB and what CB is about and what CB is possibly to grow into

IF we want to move past the simple, ask questions and get answers and have a place to complain about issues, then fine

But if CB wants to survive long term and to become a factor in the industry then we need to take on these sorts of issues and campaign and persuaded the manufactures who sell products that do not work properly to stand by their products and suport them properly

it is ONLY when a group that is united and public decided to take some sort of action that a lot of the shall I say less customer service companies will infact fix the problems. Each individual customer can easily be passed off and ignored it is when a group that is powerful and public takes on the task that something gets done

Sad to say in todays market a lot of companies just have lost the desire for extraordinary customer service . Just look at Toyota, or think back to the Ford Pinto or the just in the news Salmonella situation.

ETC shows extraordinary customer service, they did not HAVE to do anything they looked at a problem and decided that a fix was possible and they did it. Sure it was not THEIR problem but it was THEIR CUSTOMER with the problem

This is why companies like ETC time and time again get high Marks for outstanding customer service


So:
If we want thing to change they we need to be proactive with companies like Chauvet and "hound" so to speak to correct issues and provide good customer support. Sadly simply saying I will not buy from them or recommend them has little impact. 

Sharyn


----------



## theatre4jc (Mar 10, 2010)

Very true Sharyn!!!!


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 10, 2010)

jmabray said:


> ... On the other hand, we had really beautiful weather here today... How about you?


Well, it snowed in parts of Las Vegas yesterday, but next week is supposed to reach mid/high 70s.


----------



## TheAlphaNerd (Apr 9, 2010)

Hey all...

So I totally found this thread helpful after having purchased my COLORstrip so I thought I'd share with you what I have been doing with it.

I'm working with an arduino microcontroller and a DMX shield to control the lights. Software wise I'm using custom arduino code, custom max/msp code, and touch OSC to control the lights.

At the moment I've been playing with RGB mixing mode... I can successfully control all three colors and a strobe using my ipod touch (via touch osc).

Hopefully by next week I will have mapped out the entire control interface of the lights onto the ipod, giving everyone here another option as far as controlling the lights are concerned.

Just so you know, an arduino is 30 bucks, you can find a DMX shield online for around 40 bucks, and touchOSC is 5 bucks. Everything else will be my own code which I will be posting online, for free!

Check out a demo video I made here


----------



## SHARYNF (Aug 28, 2010)

theatre4jc said:


> Very true Sharyn!!!!



Well I have been off on several projects that have kept me away from ControlBooth BUT in the mean time CHAUVET HAS FIXED THE PROBLEM., The other day I received new control boards that had about 11 different fixes and a new sofware chip. Was relatively easy to open up the Colorstrips and replace the small pc board. The new board nows works properly with DMX

Took a little while, but at least it is fixed now

Sharyn


----------



## bishopthomas (Aug 28, 2010)

SHARYNF said:


> Well I have been off on several projects that have kept me away from ControlBooth


 
Good to have you back, Sharyn!


----------



## DavidNorth (Aug 28, 2010)

I can confirm that the issue is resolved. As was done the first time this issue showed up on Jim Mabray's customer site, Chauvet sent some sample fixtures to ETC and ETC sent an Ion to Chauvet. We both did testing and verified that the updated design worked fine.

At ETC, we tested the fixture by using a very wide variety of timings [all within the DMX spec] by altering Interbyte, Interpacket, Break, MAB, and Post Start lengths. We were not able to recreate the same failures found in the earlier fixtures. Chauvet even sent us one of the old ones to reconfirm all findings.

I am not aware of how this is being rolled out but I would recommend mentioning this when ordering to make sure the new version is what you receive.

Chauvet was good to work with and it is encouraging that they were able to have their product redesigned to meet DMX specifications.

David


----------



## derekleffew (Aug 28, 2010)

I find it encouraging to hear of a manufacturing actually FIXING a known problem rather than simply ignoring customer complaints. To everyone affected by this, please send a thank you to our buddy Ford, Sr. Product Development Manager for Chauvet.


----------



## theatre4jc (Aug 30, 2010)

HAHA they fixed it...figures. I just bought the Doug Fleener device to slow down the DMX to make them work. Now the question is the people with the old ones, will they get the new parts for free since the original ones didn't meet specs?


----------



## SHARYNF (Aug 30, 2010)

Chauvet sent me the replacement boards no charge

It was a pretty extensive rework

If anyone is interested I can give a step by step procedure to swap out the boards (Not that difficult but it helps to know which screws to remove etc etc) 

Sharyn


----------



## theatre4jc (Aug 30, 2010)

Sharyn, how did you get the boards? Just a call to customer service? I would like to get mine actually fixed and I have a friend in the same position. If you don't mind letting me know how you got them I'd appreciate it. If you don't feel right posting it here PM me.

Thanks

david


----------



## JohnA (Sep 22, 2010)

I too can confirm that Chauvet has fixed the colorstrip flicker problem. I received my replacement PC board tonight & did the install in about 20 minutes. Using a Zero 88 Fat Frog, the dimming was much smoother & essentially flicker free. Prior to this, I was unable to use the colorstrips with that board.

After comparing the old and new PC boards, the major difference is a new PROM chip. It is labeled as "version 3". I also noted that the DMX chips are the same as the original board (TI 75176), so I would have disagree with earlier claims that the DMX chip was faulty. It appears to me to be a change in the firmware in the PROM has corrected the issue.

For all those that want to know how to get the replacement board, contact Chauvet's customer service for further info.


----------



## SHARYNF (Sep 24, 2010)

*Some suggestions on installing the upgraded control board for the Colorstrip*

Here is what I found works well.
if you turn the colorstrip over you will find 6 screws on the edge closest to the control panel, remove there, on the control panel side JUST remove the two screws at each top end, if you then turn the unit over you will see 4 screws along the top edge. When you have done this you can now lift out carefully the control back of the colorstrip. you will see the board you are going to remove held on to one side with a series of standoffs. First mark the connectors (especially the 4 on the left side that control each section of leds (they are all the same in look and can get confused) you probably will find that there is some green nail polish lacquer that holds the connectors in place , you can use your fingernail or ??? to gently break the seal so that you can unplug all the connectors, You will NOT be able to completely remove the control panel but there is working space. now if you go back to the side that has the standoffs you can remove the machine screws that hold the standoffs. once these are removed (3 I seem to recall) you gently pull out the control board. I then used a 5mm Socket and a pair of needle nose pliers to remove the stand offs from the board you are replacing. you will need to install them on the new board. I suggest that you get some medium lock tight type of goop so that the nuts will stay on the standoffs when you screw them back on and it will make it easier (the original boards will have some of the same green nail polish holding the nuts from coming loose. Make sure that the heat sink on the voltage regulator does not touch the capacitor (the very old units had a simple piece of heat sink, the newer ones have a angle piece of heat sink
when you have stand offs on the board, gently put it back into the colorstrip, and attach the three (?) screws to hold it in place. then carefully plug back in the wires, and I used a small amount of silicone to keep them from coming loose. You then put back the control side of the case in place making sure that the center section does not go in too far and not allow you to put the screws back in, and obviously be careful of the wires. Re screw in the machine screws and you should be good to go.

I Found the problem was that some of the screws on the casing were over torqued and so the threads were stripped and it was a pain to get them out, I found that putting a thin screw driver under the metal and applying some pressure can move the sheet metal to an area of the screw that has threads and they can then be removed. some of the very old units (have a 2 on the inspection circle) used the wrong screws (flat head vs pan head) the newer ones have pan head screws with lock washers.

All in all with a little patience it is pretty easy, after 16 of them (;-))) it only took about 15 minutes per unit

On some of them the goop that they used on the ac power connections had broken, so I silicone d this also.
I found that the new software and hardware fixed the dmx issues and also some of the issues where some units would not allow you to manually select either red or on some blue (A001 A003)

Hope this helps
Sharyn


----------



## ESINC (Feb 3, 2011)

theatre4jc said:


> I get this random flashing. Not the typical flicker associated with dimming. The unit actually flashes other colors randomly. I have full dimming control, DMX is good and clean. This is happening with all 12 of my fixtures. I'm thinking the issue is in the fixture profile so this is what I'm thinking of trying.


 
We've completely, totally solved this problem, albeit by adding a bit of external hardware.

Take a look here:

DecaBox – ‘DMX Slowdowner’ » Engineering Solutions Inc

Best,

John


----------



## derekleffew (Feb 3, 2011)

ESINC said:


> We've completely, totally solved this problem, albeit by adding a bit of external hardware. ...


That's great, John, but why should a user buy a piece of external hardware when Chauvet is (apparently) willing to provide the parts to make its fixtures DMX512-compliant for free?


----------



## JohnA (Feb 3, 2011)

I agree with Derek on this one. I got my retrofit kits last September, and have not had a single issue since then. Installation time was 20 minutes max.


----------



## Kelite (Feb 3, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> That's great, John, but why should a user buy a piece of external hardware when Chauvet is (apparently) willing to provide the parts to make its fixtures DMX512-compliant for free?


 
Because ES INC's one and only post was to sell their gear on the ControlBooth? 

I would hope one would at least stop in and introduce himself first- 

Just sayin'


----------



## domiii (Feb 11, 2011)

JohnA said:


> I agree with Derek on this one. I got my retrofit kits last September, and have not had a single issue since then. Installation time was 20 minutes max.


 
So how did you get the retrofit kits?

I have had my colorstrips for a year and have not been able to use them with my ETC Express 48/96 at all.

Please help!!


----------



## JohnA (Feb 11, 2011)

domii-check your PMs.


----------



## ESINC (Jul 13, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> That's great, John, but why should a user buy a piece of external hardware when Chauvet is (apparently) willing to provide the parts to make its fixtures DMX512-compliant for free?


 
Hi Derek,

Sorry for the late response. For some reason, I never received an email reply on this thread.

In any case, it's awesome that Chauvet is providing replacement parts for their lights. You're correct that external hardware shouldn't be required.

In this particular situation, the staging company was literally buying these fixtures a pallet at a time. The money spent (and time required) to pay their shop guys to retrofit huge stacks of fixtures, even with free replacement gear, is substantial. Certainly their resources were better spent putting an inexpensive piece of hardware in-line.

Your mileage of course may vary.

Cheers,

John


----------



## Farmermike (Aug 29, 2013)

I would argue that this problem has not gone away. I have 7 of them linked together and I am having the same issue. Using a smartfade and going through a splitter. Im baffled.


----------



## ESINC (Aug 29, 2013)

Hi Mike,

This was mentioned earlier, but for some reason the link doesn't appear above.

DecaBox – ‘DMX Slowdowner’ » Engineering Solutions Inc

We've shipped these all over the country, much to the delight of many different customers. There's a 30 day no-questions-asked return policy if you're not thrilled. I know it's a hassle to add extra gear, but this little box will solve the problem in about 30 seconds. Just insert it at the top of the DMX run which feeds the flickering fixtures.

John
Engineering Solutions Inc


----------



## derekleffew (Aug 30, 2013)

Click "Reply With Quote" to read post #52 above. Staff is diligently working on solving this invisible post issue.


----------



## DavidNorth (Aug 30, 2013)

Farmermike said:


> I would argue that this problem has not gone away. I have 7 of them linked together and I am having the same issue. Using a smartfade and going through a splitter. Im baffled.



Have you tried changing the DMX output speed of the SmartFade? We purposefully changed the timing of the various output speeds to deal with issues such as with ColorStrips. Menu>Setup>DMX Out>[Max]..[Slow]..[Medium]..[Fast], select Slow. If this doesn't work, and you are running the latest software, then I would be very curious whether something else is injecting a problem here such as the splitter or cable.

David


----------



## DavidNorth (Aug 30, 2013)

[early morning rant]

Why in the world is it even acceptable for DMX devices to be called DMX devices and yet not comply to DMX requirements. According to the DMX spec, it is the responsibility of the receiving device to accept the entire range of flexible timings that a transmitter can supply. This problem started with Intellabeam 700HX fixtures [which HES did fix] and has continued. People want high resolution control over devices but yet update times have to slow down so that the devices can keep up.

I think it is rather hilarious that a whole new set of devices exist on the market today so that we can control insufficienct fixture and device designs. Not sure why we accept such things. I also think it is odd that people think it is ok to place yet one more interface device [ie failure point] on their control line. We deserve better designs from companies selling thousands of cheap LED designs to us.

[/early morning rant]

Thanks for listening,

David


----------



## DavidNorth (Aug 30, 2013)

ESINC said:


> Hi Mike,
> 
> This was mentioned earlier, but for some reason the link doesn't appear above.
> 
> ...



Hi John,

Since we occasionally have to recommend people find a suitable DMX timing altering device for their low cost fixtures, I wouldn't mind taking a look at one for a week to see how it performs. Let me know if you have an interest in sending one my way and I will warm up the 'scopes.

David


----------



## ESINC (Aug 30, 2013)

DavidNorth said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Since we occasionally have to recommend people find a suitable DMX timing altering device for their low cost fixtures, I wouldn't mind taking a look at one for a week to see how it performs. Let me know if you have an interest in sending one my way and I will warm up the 'scopes.
> 
> David




@David - I agree wholeheartedly with your rant. That being said, send me your delivery address in a private message and I'll sneak something out the door for you. No problem.


----------



## taddison (Aug 30, 2013)

I see this thread started several years ago but apparently the problem is still around... I recently bought a Matrix DMX Pro "shoebox" dimmer for running practicals, and it had the same flickering problem when driven from a Pathport node at full speed.

The problem went away when I slowed down the Pathport's transmit speed to the minimum, and it worked fine from a Horizon DMX node (whose speed is not adjustable).

There are other choices out there, so rather than have a marginal device I sent the Matrix back and tried a similar dimmer from American DJ which worked fine at full speed.

Tim


----------



## JoelD (Feb 18, 2014)

I realize this thread is old, but I just wanted to chime in on it to say "thanks"... because it pointed me in the right direction to my problem and a resolution.

For months we had been having an issue with our Chauvet LEDrain 64C pars and Chauvet ColorBand Tri strips experiencing random flashing, running off a grandMA2 onPC with 2Port Node Pro. I was tearing my hair out trying different PCs, switching out cables, isolating instruments, etc. I even sent the Node in to have it looked at. (While it was gone I ran with Martin's M-PC and a cheap Enttec dongle... and experienced no flashing at all.)

Then just to make it more fun, during this time MA came out with a firmware update for the Node which I applied as usual (but also with some slim thought of hope that it might fix my issue)... well... now the random flashing was occurring with whole entire rig all at once. Aaaagh!... Thankfully MA just recently came out with their latest firmware update which definitely fixed that whole rig flashing issue. Thanks, MA! I hoped it might also resolve my original problem, but I continued to experience the random flashing of individual instruments. Oh, well. Back where I started.

In my research to find any possible ideas from similar issues, I came across this thread. I read the great, detailed information from Milton Davis of Doug Fleenor Design that SHARYNF quoted in this thread, as well as the great information on the issue that ETC figured out which starksk and DavidNorth shared. Having eliminated practically everything else, and the fact that my instruments were also from the Chauvet DJ line, I thought there was a high possibility that I was dealing with a very similar issue. And the fact that the issue didn't occur with the M-PC, which most probably uses different timings than the grandMA2 Node, also furthered my suspicion of a timing issue.

This eventually lead me to find some discussions where Doug Fleenor Design's DMX Decelerator, along with a few other devices, was mentioned as a possible solution for suspected timing issues like this. So my dealer got me a DMX Decelerator to try out.

Sure enough, it solved the issue!

Over a total 8 hours of testing and running our services (HOW)... not one single flash!! (Totally unheard before.)

Interestingly it works with either the Fast or Slow setting, which I would guess means that it must be one of the individual specific timings within the DMX packet from the grandMA2 Node that the instruments can't handle rather than it's overall refresh rate. (Just as in the case discussed in this thread, where specifically the inter-byte time was the culprit.) And so the Decelerator must be using a timing for that particular item in both its Fast and Slow settings that the instruments can handle.

So thanks to everyone on this thread... especially @MiltonDavis via SHARYNF, @SHARYNF, @starksk, and @DavidNorth!
And thanks to Doug Fleenor Design, for creating the DMX Decelerator! (Although, I think you'll agree, you really shouldn't have had to.)


----------

