# Why use a fly tower



## mikewarner (May 14, 2016)

In the case of backdrops and scrims, why not just use a roller system where the fabric is rolled around a cylinder above the stage? 

Are there any noticeable differences between such a system and a traditional fly tower?


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 14, 2016)

I believe that straight lift is faster, more reliable (less maintenance), and less expensive. Rollers I've seen are in the $40,000 range, motorized hoists for straight lift $20,000 - 25,000; and manual counterweight maybe $8000. And just for drops, tracks are maybe $1000-2000. But the specific answer to your inquiry is speed and wear on the drop. And nothing with fullness or even hems or vertical seams rolls well.

But the why isn't just for drops, it's also for travellers, orchestra shells, rigid scenic pieces, etc. More importantly, my experience suggests the fly house is more important for change over - Friday night band concert, Saturday children's play, and Sunday worship rental. 

Now, one drop now and forever, maybe a sky drop, OK. But I do that as a means to store it and protect it for an event that doesn't need it.


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## RonHebbard (May 14, 2016)

mikewarner said:


> In the case of backdrops and scrims, why not just use a roller system where the fabric is rolled around a cylinder above the stage?
> 
> Are there any noticeable differences between such a system and a traditional fly tower?


In a word: Definitely!
One of the versions of what you're speaking of used to be referred to as an "oleo" or "oleo drop".
With any of the roller variations, it's pretty much impossible to properly tension a scrim, or cyc, both laterally and vertically, and still have it roll up and / or down.

As to "fly towers"; In new construction, building a purpose built theatre from the foundations up, a commonly applied formula for grid height is to design a fly pipe's maximum height AFF (Above Finished Floor, the stage in this instance) to be 2.5 times the height of the proscenium. If a production's design calls for a totally unmasked, (no borders, legs, travellers, etcetera) look, you can still fly full height cycs and travellers totally out of the audiences sight, even out of sight of those seated in the closest rows unless they're being jerks by kneeling on the floor and looking straight up. Having this amount of overhead clearance permits not only the flying of drops with piped bottoms providing vertical tensioning but also the ability to fly a tightly stretched cyc or scrim with not only top and bottom pipes but any of the various commonly used systems for evenly cross-stretching from side to side.
Having a fly tower is one of those things: Once you've spent appreciable time in a space with a tower, you'll keep giggling at yourself for not only all of the times you'd wished you had one but for all of the many work-arounds you used to have to employ to get through your various past efforts. Definitely beneficial in a producing space, invaluable in a 'four-walls' road house. The only way to fly (pardon the pun) in a serious repertory space.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Footer (May 14, 2016)

mikewarner said:


> In the case of backdrops and scrims, why not just use a roller system where the fabric is rolled around a cylinder above the stage?
> 
> Are there any noticeable differences between such a system and a traditional fly tower?



You ever tried to get a 50' pipe to hang perfectly horizontal while only holding it up at the ends? Whats your question here really? The cost and complication of a system like that is really not worth it.


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## SteveB (May 14, 2016)

With road houses, fly towers are the only solution for a traveling opera or ballets that uses scenic legs, borders and backdrops that need to change act to act. No possibility to rig all this on rollers and make it work reliably.

Expensive to build new though. Some of the consultants here have stated what the costs are to get decent tower height and beyond certain heights (50 ft. ?) remarkably expensive. I think I recall something like $200,000 per add'l foot of height. But worth it long term, IMO.


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## RonHebbard (May 14, 2016)

Footer said:


> You ever tried to get a 50' pipe to hang perfectly horizontal while only holding it up at the ends? Whats your question here really? The cost and complication of a system like that is really not worth it.


Kyle; I suspect the OP and most of us are cross-pollinating worlds here. I suspect the OP's speaking of a space with a 16 or 18' maximum ceiling height back stage where he's suggesting the installation of simple, totally manually operated, roller system; possibly hand operated via a hand-line manipulated by a person standing at stage level while the bulk of us are looking at this from a totally different perspective. I concur totally: More info' is definitely in order.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 14, 2016)

RonHebbard said:


> to be 2.5 times the height of the proscenium



That was a design rule of thumb until beancounters started using it in reverse - deciding how high the stage house was and then using it to set proscenium. Lots of 30 foot stages across the country with 12' proscenium. I explain my views on this (in my winter 2014 Protocol article, also on my web site) but I think there are a lot of issues to consider on deciding stage heigth. Also, look at batten high trim and travel, not roof, grid, or any other item. One thing is for sure, anyone that builds it tall enough to fly drops never regrets it, never wishes they hadn't.


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## gafftapegreenia (May 14, 2016)

Oh, the hours upon hours I've spent steaming the wrinkles out of an oleo drop only to have them come right back after its first roll up. 


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 15, 2016)

I am not sure I understand what is meant by manual roll drops, I assume a bottom roller, but I reject these for safety concerns. If the operator "let's go" for any reason, there is no backup or e-stop. Likewise no limits. Manual counterweight, traverse rigging, turntables, wagons, etc., fails safe if the operator let's go; not so a roll drop.


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## RonHebbard (May 15, 2016)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I am not sure I understand what is meant by manual roll drops, I assume a bottom roller, but I reject these for safety concerns. If the operator "let's go" for any reason, there is no backup or e-stop. Likewise no limits. Manual counterweight, traverse rigging, turntables, wagons, etc., fails safe if the operator let's go; not so a roll drop.


Understood and in complete agreement. I dearly hope the OP gets back to us with further clarification of his situation and thoughts. Can you even imagine trying to roll a heavy, lined, velour House curtain / Main drape? I know I can't.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## DRU (May 15, 2016)

The last theater I worked for as technical director had four olio style roll drops. They were attached to a fixed pipe grid 15' above deck, and (if I remember correctly) the bottom rollers were 32' long and made from 6" aluminum mechanical tube. Proscenium was 13' tall and 25' wide. All four were built by profesional scene shops. For 5.5 years I used them with very little issue. To move US/DS only required moving three pieces of hardware, and I got it down to 30-40 mins to hang, attach, test, qand adjust any drop. Although I understand the safety concerns, for a small theater, when properly installed and used safely, it is a valid option. A painted muslin drop wasn't difficult to lift. The hardest was our velour blackout drop, which we didn't use often. Our main curtain was on a track. 

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