# Removable Black Stage



## rochem (May 18, 2010)

Hello all!

I just received a late-night phone call from a director I've worked with in the past. He's in charge of the theatre program at a local high school, and I've done a few shows in their space, so I'm pretty familiar with the theatre. According to him, the school found a surplus at the end of the year, and rather than losing it, they have offered a tentative $40,000 budget to make some improvements to the theatre. This theatre actually just got a major overhaul not too long ago, so this money doesn't need to be spent on infrastructure. The catch is that they need specifics FAST! They want to upgrade their lighting (I'll make a separate post for that), but the other big thing they want is to price out a black stage.

Right now, the entire stage is hardwood floor. I don't know any specifics about what material it's made out of or anything, but I've attached a bad photo which somewhat shows the floor. The catch is that this cannot be a permanent install - the hardwood floor needs to remain usable, and the black floor must be able to be removed in a reasonably short period of time. My first instinct was to use that black dance floor material that rolls up (the name is escaping me at the moment). But I'm worried that that might not be secure enough. This floor will have potentially enormous set pieces on it with considerable weight, and they could be sitting on top of the floor for months at a time. Would a floor like that hold up? Also, I'm worried that they won't like the appearance of having lines of gaff tape every couple feet as you move upstage. Does anyone have any suggestions for other products in case they want something more visually pleasing? I was thinking about Rosco SubFloor, but I don't know anything about it other than having received some product info about it once. Would this be too springy/bouncy for general theatre use, with very heavy pieces sitting on top of it for months? 

Thanks in advance - I really appreciate the help!


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## Footer (May 19, 2010)

I would avoid marley at all costs if you are going to be rolling scenery on it. Nothing pulls up/kinks marley faster then casters on it. 

You can easily install a floating floor for a few grand. One of the theatres I have worked for we did this at the beginning of every season and struck it at the end. We laid 3/4" OSB going US/DS offsetting each row. We then came back with 1/4" maso running SL/SR also offsetting each row. The OSB was not screwed into the hardwood deck. We used 3/4" screws to screw the maso into the OSB locking it together. This method works rather well but it is labor intensive. It does only jack up the stage 1" which is pretty easy to ramp on/off. You do lose a few sheets of maso each time the floor is layed no matter how hard you try to pull up everything intact. It took a full 8 hour call with about 8 IA hands to get the floor down. It took about 2 hours with 12 or so to get th floor back up. The entire thing packed into about a 8x12 hole. 

If you got cash to throw though, rosco and harlequin  both make tempary floors to do what you need to do. It would require less labor.


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## rochem (May 19, 2010)

Yeah, I was worried about the marley, thanks for clearing that up. As this is a long-term purchase, I'd be nervous about recommending anything that could have a potentially limiting effect in the future.

I looked at some of the flooring solutions offered by Rosco, but I have the same concern. If you look at the photo I posted above, you can see that last year they built an enormous 30' wide by 15' deep staircase out of wood, and let it sit on the stage floor for a couple of months. I'm planning on calling Rosco later today to speak with them directly about this, but I don't feel very confident about the abilities of their floors to handle very heavy weights over long periods of time.

I think at this point the best option looks to be the OSB and masonite. Out of curiosity, is there any reason you (or anyone else) would recommend masonite (technically HDF, or hardboard I believe) over MDF (medium density fiberboard) for stage surfaces? Where would I go to price out this material? Would a local home depot/lowes be the best source, or is there a better option when buying in large quantities like this?

I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to building materials and such, but they still want me to go and price things out so they can see what they have to work with. Fortunately, someone much mor experienced and knowledgeable than myself will be responsible for the actual installation, and probably the purchasing, if it comes to that point. So in the mean time, if there's anything else I may need to know that seems obvious to you, please let me know. Thanks!


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## shiben (May 19, 2010)

Masonite is thinner. Easier to move. That said, when we build stages in our black box we use a standard 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood and layer 1/2" MDF on top. I like Footer's idea, its rather inexpensive, easy to fix when it breaks, will have no trouble with big sets, and if it does get a chip, just replace the 4x8 section, not the entire floor. It will require a bunch of hands to lay, and take some time to do so, but get a pile of people on it and its not too tough. I would think laying any floor is going to take a considerable amount of time, unless its marly which is great for dances and whatnot, not so great for heavy things on top of it (put a nice big track in our old marly floor when we had to drive the lift on it). Also, laying ours took a roll and a half of gaff tape, due to the shape of it.


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## len (May 19, 2010)

Based on watching crews set up dance floors in hotels, a 4 x 8 sheet floor covering a 50 x 40 stage would take 4 people about an hour, assuming they have a bit of practice doing it together. 2 layers would take roughly double. 

The issue would be where/how you would store the sheets when not in use. You'll have to figure carts based on the smallest opening between the deck and the storage area. So if they have to go through a single width door, that's a 29.5" cart. And don't forget to figure navigating turns.


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## ajb (May 19, 2010)

> I think at this point the best option looks to be the OSB and masonite. Out of curiosity, is there any reason you (or anyone else) would recommend masonite (technically HDF, or hardboard I believe) over MDF (medium density fiberboard) for stage surfaces? Where would I go to price out this material? Would a local home depot/lowes be the best source, or is there a better option when buying in large quantities like this?



Masonite is preferable to MDF because it's denser and has a harder surface. It's also much more flexible and resilient, so it'll hold up better through multiple installs and removals than 1/4" MDF, although the flexibility makes it a bit difficult to maneuver sometimes. OSB is ideal as an underlay not only because it's cheap, but also because it's very stable--far less prone to warping than any sort of plywood.

Depending on how often you need to take the floor up and down, you might consider building interlocking squares--one 4'x4' square of ~3/8" OSB laminated with another square of OSB, but with the edges offset 2", and a layer of masonite topping the whole thing with its edges aligned to the edges of the top piece of OSB. The whole stack is glued and screwed together. Build enough to cover your stage plus some strips to finish the edges. To install, lap the overhanging edges of one square over the underhanging edges of two adjacent squares and screw 'em together--or if you get really fancy you can do interlocking pins.

As far as buying the material, Home Depot's not a bad option for this sort of thing, but call around to your local lumberyards and building suppliers and see if you can find a better price. With the construction market the way it is, you might be able to strike a good bargain.


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## ship (May 21, 2010)

Speaking of floating floors, anyone priced out a 1/4" snap lock type wood flooring floating floor as an idea?

Probably wouldn't work and I would paint a Masonite or Luan floor out of tradition in thought anyway as first thought, but still the snap lock flooring as a concept?


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