# is this how we do it in theater



## spribil (Jun 20, 2012)

According to OSHA this is not how to do this...Any one know why? Found this on a website for a theatrical company actually their homepage.


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## Sony (Jun 20, 2012)

The strap is going under his arm...if he were to fall the strap would at the very least dislocate his shoulder and in a worst case scenario it could sever his arm completely off...


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## derekleffew (Jun 20, 2012)

spribil said:


> View attachment 7200


/OT
Are those MiSphere s in the background? If so, this was probably U2's Vertigo Tour of 2005.


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## mstaylor (Jun 23, 2012)

Also the safety is attached to his front waist which makes a full body harness useless. If he were to fall, the arm/shoulder is a definite problem but snapping his back is the other.


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 24, 2012)

spribil said:


> According to OSHA this is not how to do this...Any one know why? Found this on a website for a theatrical company actually their homepage.



Can you direct me to the website where this photo came from. I guess my monitor is too small so I can't distinguish if he is clipped in at all or if he just has some sort of lanyard draped over his shoulder.


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## chausman (Jun 24, 2012)

ruinexplorer said:


> Can you direct me to the website where this photo came from. I guess my monitor is too small so I can't distinguish if he is clipped in at all or if he just has some sort of lanyard draped over his shoulder.



To me, it appears he isn't actually clipped into anything, and just has the lanyards over his shoulder.


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## mstaylor (Jun 24, 2012)

It appears you are correct. At first look it appeared it was under his arm but it does seem to be over his shoulder. It still seems to just be a runner either hooked to his chest or waist. Either way it isn't a proper fall protection setup. Positioning maybe but not fall.


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## tdrga (Jun 25, 2012)

I think more context (or a larger picture) is needed- I can't even tell if the person is climbing or just standing on the ground looking up.

-Todd


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## spribil (Jun 25, 2012)

well I could post the link to the website but do not want to do that...and for argument sake it really does not matter if he is getting ready to climb, has been climbing or is in the process of climbing...there is so much wrong with the "idea" of safety here.


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## tdrga (Jun 25, 2012)

spribil said:


> for argument sake it really does not matter if he is getting ready to climb, has been climbing or is in the process of climbing...



I think that the context matters- your original post asked: "According to OSHA this is not how to do this...Any one know why?"

It's not clear to me what the "this" you are referring to is. Is this person at height and not clipped in correctly? Or are they standing on the ground and just happen to be wearing a harness? Is it rhetorical question or are you genuinely asking what is wrong? What are you seeing in this tiny picture that I am not?


spribil said:


> there is so much wrong with the "idea" of safety here.



I'm not trying to be argumentative- I simply can't tell what's wrong with the picture without some more context. What is the "idea" that's being presented?

Thanks,
Todd


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## porkchop (Jun 25, 2012)

The main problem I see is that he is using a lanyard made for static positioning only as a D ring extender. Many people can't reach their back D ring to clip into and out of vertical fall arresters and I see all kinds of creative ways to fix that, but you need to use something that is actually rated for the HUGE dynamic load of you falling on it, not just something that says it'll hold your weight. The first acceptable product Google brings up is this one.

After thought: It also looks like he is using an aluminum carabiner that is probably also not rated for fall protection.


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## spribil (Jun 25, 2012)

Ok so the simple thing is where the attachment is...not his back as required in fall protection. No shock absorbing lanyard. It is a "full body" harness so I am not going to go there. The first look at even a small picture tells you that this is not compliant.


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## tdrga (Jun 25, 2012)

porkchop said:


> The main problem I see is that he is using a lanyard made for static positioning only as a D ring extender.



Brett,
I don't see anything attached to the dorsal D-ring on the harness. I can't say with certainty what the lanyard (or webbing/runner/rope) over his shoulder and the various carabiners are intended for.

I agree with using the right product for the job, but I don't see definitive evidence in this picture of an improper D-ring extender.

-Todd


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## ruinexplorer (Jun 26, 2012)

It is not evident in this picture if the crew member is at height. If so, then there is a definite lack of proper clipping in. The only point where I see an attachment to the harness is at the waist positioning point. However, since there is no tension on that and we cannot verify anything from this picture, it is conjecture to say that there is any problem here. The lanyard over his shoulder is not connected to the harness as a D-ring extender, nor is it attached to any point that I can verify. 

Maybe we can set some points of reference and then discuss what is right and wrong about this picture. 
1. Assume working at height, where should the attachment be and what type of attachment.
2. Assume clip on side is being used, why would you want to use this point on the harness and what is the proper way to use it?
Other topics?


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## avkid (Jun 26, 2012)

ruinexplorer said:


> Maybe we can set some points of reference and then discuss what is right and wrong about this picture.
> 1. Assume working at height, where should the attachment be and what type of attachment.
> 2. Assume clip on side is being used, why would you want to use this point on the harness and what is the proper way to use it?
> Other topics?



1. Fall arrest equipment is only attached to the dorsal d-ring.
The type of lanyard depends on the application, but always a shock absorber.
I use a dual leg 6ft Miller StretchStop with large scaffolding hooks for truss climbing and a single leg StretchStop lanyard with regular snap hooks when in aerial lifts.

2. Waist d-rings are for positioning only.


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## MarshallPope (Jun 27, 2012)

After some creative Googling:


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## JimHaver (Jul 3, 2012)

The hat.
I don't know what that is, but it looks like a plastic parody of a cowboy hat.
Don't even NEED safety gear when you have a hat like that!


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## josh88 (Jul 3, 2012)

Well they do make cowboy style hardhats, though I'd always stick with a traditional style


Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 5, 2012)

Even with the larger picture, it is difficult to tell if he is working at height. Obviously he is not tied in so should not be working at height. 

Bonus points for my previous question. At what point can you use your front/chest D-ring?


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## zmb (Jul 12, 2012)

Interesting harness usage on the left


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## chausman (Jul 12, 2012)

zmb said:


> Interesting harness usage on the leftView attachment 7292



It's like it's backwards or something.


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## SanTai (Jul 12, 2012)

ruinexplorer said:


> Even with the larger picture, it is difficult to tell if he is working at height. Obviously he is not tied in so should not be working at height.
> 
> Bonus points for my previous question. At what point can you use your front/chest D-ring?



The absorbica Y MGO manual says it is OK to attach to either sternal or dorsal point...

And by the way, in my part of the world it is quite common for climbers in the entertainment industry to free-climb up to the roof(or where they are going to work) before clipping in. To me though that partially of defeats the point of having a harness. Not my problem since I am not doing it and as always avoids standing under a climber working.


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 13, 2012)

The sternal (front/chest) D-ring can be used for fall arrest in applications where climbing a ladder which excedes the 10'/platform ungaurded. In such an instance, there will be a line along the ladder for a rope grab to attach.

Also see this site for reference. 

Due to the strain on your body in a fall situation, there is no other approved use of this safety point which I have been trained to use. SanTai, that used to be common practice many places I used to work fifteen years ago. Many of those places now have adopted installing retractable life lines as part of the rigging before it even goes up.


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## SanTai (Jul 13, 2012)

That is similar to what I have been thought.

I do not have extensive training in use of fall arrest equipment since I am not a high rigger, or something similar. But why does Petzl state that sternal point can be used for their fall arrest lanyard with MGO?


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 15, 2012)

If you provide me with the specific model, I could look at it and better answer the question.


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## SanTai (Jul 15, 2012)

take a look at this. http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/L59MGO-ABSORBICA-Y-MGO.pdf
ABSORBICA-Y | Petzl

What am I missing?


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 15, 2012)

In picture 2, where the example is climbing scaffolding, this would be an acceptable use as long as those members are rated properly (based on my training here in the US). However, picture 4 illustrating clearance for a fall is an improper use here. First of all, your point of connection should be at the height of your D ring or above, not below. Second, the position you will be hanging should you fall is not the best for your health (better to be hanging from your back to prevent restricted airway and other issues). It is considered an acceptable risk when climbing due to the need of access to the fall arrest system, but once you are above, then this isn't ideal. I guess that if you are climbing steel (picture 2) and get to the top where there is no other system available, then you do not want to disconnect to put it on your dorsal D-ring. However, in many situations, you would be connecting to a separate system once you have finished ascending. You do not disconnect the front until you are securely clipped in on back.


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## teqniqal (Jul 16, 2012)

SanTai said:


> take a look at this. http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/L59MGO-ABSORBICA-Y-MGO.pdf
> ABSORBICA-Y | Petzl
> 
> What am I missing?



See: http://www.asse.org/professionalsafety/pastissues/052/09/47_feldsteinz359_sept2007.pdf

The new ANSI code permits use of the sternal D-Ring for *some* fall protection situations.

You shouldn't be using a Fall Protection harness (or any of it's associated accoutrements) unless you have received training on how to use, attach, and maintain the equipment. In this case, a little bit of knowledge or (lack there-of) can get you, or someone else, severely injured or killed. Just like everything else in the theatre, there are 1000 ways to misuse the equipment and get yourself into more trouble than you planned for. _Training_, *Training*, Training. If your school or employer is going to spring for the cost of the harness(es), then they must realize that they must hire a qualified Fall Protection Trainer (yes, this is an actual certification). You wouldn't buy a car and expect someone to operate it with out training, that same is true for Fall Protection equipment and programs.


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