# DL3 Interest



## patrickh (Feb 26, 2015)

I am interested in possibly purchasing a High End Systems DL3 for a theatre. I am interested more in the process of controlling one. I understand that you need an ethernet connection to the CMA on a computer but I don't understand the DMX. I have been told that it can only be run off of HOG consoles. Is this true? The theatre currently has ETC consoles and we are looking to upgrade but want to stay with an ETC console. Is this possible? I am considering the ETC Eos Ti but can't find any documentation to clear things up.

Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## techieman33 (Feb 26, 2015)

patrickh said:


> I am interested in possibly purchasing a High End Systems DL3 for a theatre. I am interested more in the process of controlling one. I understand that you need an ethernet connection to the CMA on a computer but I don't understand the DMX. I have been told that it can only be run off of HOG consoles. Is this true? The theatre currently has ETC consoles and we are looking to upgrade but want to stay with an ETC console. Is this possible? I am considering the ETC Eos Ti but can't find any documentation to clear things up.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any advice.



DMX is a standard across all the major console manufacturers, so for that aspect at least any DMX console should work fine. I just looked AVO and GrandMA both have personality files available for that fixtue, so I would guess that ETC does as well. If they don't they should be able to make one, or worst case you'll have to write it yourself. That being said there may be some secret sauce on a Hog that makes everything work just a little better or easier. Hopefully someone who has actually used one will come along and be able to give specifics.


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## porkchop (Feb 26, 2015)

I've run 12 DL3 off one Martin Maxyzz. I've also seem them used with Grand MA's. Whoever led you to believe they are Hog only is confused. That being said depending on the channel count your venue purchased with your console, a few DL3's could eat up all of your controllable channels pretty fast so think about what control modes you're likely to use and do the math and see if it'll work on your system.

How are you going to use DL3's? Every designer I've seen spec DL fixtures used them basically so they could do the detailed work of a hang and focus from the lighting console instead of on top of a ladder. If you are going to point this fixture in one direction and not move it, or change it's focal length, or use the built in camera that almost no one uses, then your money would be better spent buying standard projectors and a media server then paying someone to get on top of a ladder and focus it for you. There are very interesting things that you can only do with a moving head projector like a DL fixture, but in reality outside of a High End demo room they almost always get used as static projectors that you can make small focus changes to from the console. Maybe that's worth the money to you, just food for thought.


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## patrickh (Feb 26, 2015)

I am interested in the DL3 and we would use it to it's full function. I am really wanting to hear that someone has used the DL3 with an EOS line console. I understand that DMX is DMX but am concerned that creating a fully functioning personality on EOS may be the issue. In my head, it should work if a personality can be created.


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## Lafalot (Feb 26, 2015)

I would suggest that you post your question on the ETC Forums or on the Facebook group "ETC Eos Family Console Programmers" I'm sure some of the users there will be willing to answer your questions. The DL3 does have a personality (for v1.4, v1.5 and v2.0) with layers in the console software.


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## chawalang (Mar 2, 2015)

A thought, have you looked at renting these for specific shows as oppose to purchasing them?

The reason I ask is that the maintenance on those things can be a lot. A lot as far as time and money, take all the maintenance of a moving light and projector times 10 and thats what you got. Do you have the labor, money and time to maintain these fixtures? Kind of the same idea why most theaters don't own 30 moving heads in their inventory, unlike an install Broadway or Vegas show. They have crews that come in for maintenance and a budget for just maintenance operations.

I don't know of shows that travel with them, rock shows that I have worked as a local stage hand usually rent them locally as to not deal with the maintenance. I also have never herd of a theatre I toured through ( I have toured through A LOT!) that ever had them in house.


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## techieman33 (Mar 2, 2015)

chawalang said:


> A thought, have you looked at renting these for specific shows as oppose to purchasing them?
> 
> The reason I ask is that the maintenance on those things can be a lot. A lot as far as time and money, take all the maintenance of a moving light and projector times 10 and thats what you got. Do you have the labor, money and time to maintain these fixtures? Kind of the same idea why most theaters don't own 30 moving heads in their inventory, unlike an install Broadway or Vegas show. They have crews that come in for maintenance and a budget for just maintenance operations.
> 
> I don't know of shows that travel with them, rock shows that I have worked as a local stage hand usually rent them locally as to not deal with the maintenance. I also have never herd of a theatre I toured through ( I have toured through A LOT!) that ever had them in house.



There was a broadway tour out 3ish? years ago that carried 3 of them. I don't remember for sure if they were DL3's, but they were something similar if not.


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## len (Mar 2, 2015)

DL products were huge on the concert touring market until everyone went to beams and video walls. And if you're only projecting the video in one place a video wall of some sort might be better than a projector, albeit more expensive. The moving light control is fairly straightforward. Pan/tilt etc. Where you get into big issues is the amount of video content that is available. Look into splitting that into two systems, dmx for the typical mover features and then running the video off a media server. IMO there's so many features to play with a dedicated videot would allow you to get more out of the fixture(s) than having one squint/video run the whole show.


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## porkchop (Mar 3, 2015)

I agree that they're pretty high maintenance. We carried a box fill of hard drives to support 14 of them. I probably replaced ~1 hard-drive a week on average, but these units where far from new and used pretty heavily. Beyond that we didn't replace many other parts, they just eat up hard-drives sometimes.

I talked to a friend with an EOS, he says they patch easily and the personality work great. Maybe try to get a demo or rent a unit for a week and see what you think.


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## techieman33 (Mar 3, 2015)

porkchop said:


> I agree that they're pretty high maintenance. We carried a box fill of hard drives to support 14 of them. I probably replaced ~1 hard-drive a week on average, but these units where far from new and used pretty heavily. Beyond that we didn't replace many other parts, they just eat up hard-drives sometimes.
> 
> I talked to a friend with an EOS, he says they patch easily and the personality work great. Maybe try to get a demo or rent a unit for a week and see what you think.



Wonder if they could just switch to SSD's and solve a lot of the drive problems? I'm guessing it's all the movement and vibration that kills the drives, and that shouldn't bother an SSD to much.


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## porkchop (Mar 3, 2015)

techieman33 said:


> Wonder if they could just switch to SSD's and solve a lot of the drive problems? I'm guessing it's all the movement and vibration that kills the drives, and that shouldn't bother an SSD to much.



We only replaced parts with identical parts to prevent any kind of hardware issues. We didn't experiment with new stuff. Also I don't think I could have gotten them to buy enough SSDs of enough capacity. I would of needed at least 16 dives (14 units & 2 spares), and 1TB SSD's run ~$400 on Newegg right now. This was a few years ago when the price would have been much higher.


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## MikeJ (Mar 21, 2015)

DL2 and DL3 were really cool for a while, but they do require 512 parameters in the most featured mode, file management is archaic by today's standards, and as a media server they cannot be used without a Lighting console. 

-as a media server they are a dinosaur, you have to limit you resolution and file size for reliable playback, Any decent computer running Resolume Arena Has significantly more power, multiple outputs, and you can run it from the computer, via artnet. Not to mention that is is much easier to create effect an transitions on a computer, than by sifting through 2 or 3 layers of encoders on a console.

-Not HD, or even widescreen, so any 16:9 content will be letter boxed or cut off

-as a projector, they are low res(I think 1280x800ish) and only 6500K, you can probably get a better projector and Arena for the same money.

-also they run on antiquated pc hardware, so replacement parts will be difficult to come by, and will be expensive.


I have used them a bunch, and they were cool. People liked seeing a logo swoop in then play a video on one wall, only to be playing a video on the ceiling a minute later. Now with Projection mapping entire buildings, they feel like a radio shack toy, in comparison.


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