# Extension Cords in a Commercial Building



## PadawanGeek (Oct 27, 2010)

Hey guys,

Today I got a call from our facilities director at our church, where I just set up a new set in the 5th/6th grade room. He told me that we aren't allowed to run extension chords to the LED cans because it was a commercial building. He also says that we can't run an extension chord to a threefer or an outlet strip. He says the only thing we're allowed to do to get power to the lights is get a power strip with a really long chord or plug them straight into a wall or a floorbox, which isn't possible because they are on a truss.

I did some research online, and it looks like he's right, extension chords can only be used for up to 30 days. What would you guys recommend I do? Lengthening the lights' cables isn't really an option because we move them around all the time, so I'm kind of at a loss.

Thanks!


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## Edrick (Oct 27, 2010)

First time I've ever seen that enforced. Why are you keeping that setup for more than 30 days?


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## PadawanGeek (Oct 27, 2010)

Edrick said:


> First time I've ever seen that enforced. Why are you keeping that setup for more than 30 days?


 
Its for one of the youth rooms at our church, where set changes only happen about once every few months.


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## derekleffew (Oct 27, 2010)

PadawanGeek said:


> ...we aren't allowed to run extension chords to the LED cans ...


I wonder if it matters whether it's a major or minor chord? 

See also the threads http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-portable-lighting-system-use.html#post195198 and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/general-advice/20534-proper-use-power-strips.html .

I think determining the proper classification of the venue in question might help your situation. 

STEVETERRY said:


> For areas covered by NEC article 520, it has to be extra-hard usage cable, that is type S and derivatives. Junior hard service cord, type SJ and derivatives is only allowed for twofers and breakouts under certain length and mounting restrictions.
> 
> _520.1 Scope.
> This article covers all buildings or that part of a building or structure, indoor or outdoor, designed or used for presentation, dramatic, musical, motion picture projection, or similar purposes and to specific audience seating areas within motion picture or television studios._
> ...


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## PadawanGeek (Oct 27, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> I wonder if it matters whether it's a major or minor chord?
> 
> See also the threads http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...-portable-lighting-system-use.html#post195198 and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/general-advice/20534-proper-use-power-strips.html .
> 
> I think determining the proper classification of the venue in question might help your situation.


 
Thanks for the explinatiom. It looks like we can use type S cable. Forgive my unintelligence, but how would itell which cables are "S type and derivatives".

Also on the spelling issue, my excuse is that I've been spending too much time around musicians.


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## Edrick (Oct 27, 2010)

Usually it's listed on the cables jacket. My solution would be just unplug the cord every 29 days wrap it up then lay it out again


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## GageStryker (Oct 27, 2010)

The intent of the 30 day rule is to prevent a temporary installation from turning into a permanent one by force of "it's already there." They don't want people running extension cords in place of wire in conduit actual installations. 

You can run type S cable (marked on the jacket), and I'd also suggest inspecting everything every 30 days - the biggest problem with extension cords I've found is that people have a tendency to run things over them or otherwise damage them, and if they're in an obscured location it can be hard to tell. As long as you have some spares and check / replace / repair frequently, you should be fine.

The other reason that code's there is liability. If the electrician that installed their service did it wrong and wires overheat start a fire, it's the electrician's fault (or the building owner's). However, if someone runs an extension cord with not enough copper on it for the load and it melts and starts a fire, who is at fault? Lots of people going "not my cord that caught fire... must have been the other tenant." If you're willing to inspect your cable and make sure it's appropriate to the job, do the next step and label it too - that way you're taking responsibility over it. 

That's just my "good advice" response, and not legal advice. I live in a different legal jurisdiction, as well.


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## PadawanGeek (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks for all your help guys! Until I can get a hold of proper S type cables, I think I'm just going to leave the extension cords unplugged and coiled at the base of the trusses when not in use, then plug them in.


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## JD (Oct 27, 2010)

Type S or SO has a thick rubber (or neoprene) jacket. Type SJ or SJO has a thin jacket and is not appropriate unless being used as a "breakout" cable that is length limited. Plastic jacket cables are not allowed as the jacket can melt when in contact with a hot fixture, or if left coiled up under heavy load. 

Although heat is not much of a problem with LED fixtures, the code is written to be inclusive of most all things found in a theater type environment. I must admit, it looks pretty funny to see a 60 watt LED fixture plugged into 12/3 SO cable, but life is life...

As for the "unplug every 29 days", funny! I guess they had to pick a number as a break point or people would use the "temporary" clause for things that were there for years. Does make me wonder about some of those shows (Disney comes to mind) that have very long run times


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## ship (Oct 27, 2010)

While 12/3 is better and more standard, I see no requirement of it above.

Define the outlet strip verses power strip and the NEC requirements on the use of cube taps?

If this cannot be a 29day wonder as it shouldn't be, and if such changes are rare, can you work with the school so as to get proper wiring to the ligting positions?

You have this stuff to light, is it worth lighting? If yes, than it is required by the manager to be in conduit, how do we go about doing so?


Why fight what's set out as the rule? You have this program and use. Is it of use to the progam? If so than in continuing it, the program needs to find a way suitable with the authority on how it's wired to continue it. An everybody wins situation, or at least one that is no longer your fight. Might loose the program, but on the other hand these stipulations are understood now and in complying with them, you can more easily comply. 

Think this tactic would be better than me against him overall.


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## PadawanGeek (Oct 28, 2010)

Today I met with the facilities director and it didn't go so well. I pointed out NEC article 520 and that room was both considered a theatrical area and the cables we are using are type S, but he didn't care. I also suggested that we unplug and coil the cables up when not in use, but he said that too was unacceptable. The conversation ended with him threatening to take down the whole set (even though it was compliant with code) and call the fire marshall.

I later talked with our church's LD and he said that he faced the same problem on the church's main stage and ended up talking to the fire marshall and getting it all worked out. The problem is that I'm a teenage volunteer so a meeting between me and the fire marshall probably wouldn't happen. At this point, I don't know what else to do because I'm compliant with code already, whether the facilities director believes it or not.


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## DuckJordan (Oct 28, 2010)

PadawanGeek said:


> Today I met with the facilities director and it didn't go so well. I pointed out NEC article 520 and that room was both considered a theatrical area and the cables we are using are type S, but he didn't care. I also suggested that we unplug and coil the cables up when not in use, but he said that too was unacceptable. The conversation ended with him threatening to take down the whole set (even though it was compliant with code) and call the fire marshall.
> 
> I later talked with our church's LD and he said that he faced the same problem on the church's main stage and ended up talking to the fire marshall and getting it all worked out. The problem is that I'm a teenage volunteer so a meeting between me and the fire marshall probably wouldn't happen. At this point, I don't know what else to do because I'm compliant with code already, whether the facilities director believes it or not.


 

Sounds like your stuck between a rock and a hard place, talk to the LD see if he would be with you to meet this fire marshal when he is called, and make sure that the fire marshal tells the facilities director what code is required for "entertainment" lighting, it seems to me that the facilities director is no longer seeing it as a theatrical production and more of a house hold light (Which it is not).


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## STEVETERRY (Oct 28, 2010)

JD said:


> Plastic jacket cables are not allowed as the jacket can melt when in contact with a hot fixture, or if left coiled up under heavy load.


 
Actually, types ST, STW, STO, STOW, STOO, and STOOW are allowable Extra Hard Usage thermoplastic types.

Even though they are allowed in article 520 venues (see table 400.5 Note 6), they are not popular in those applications.

ST


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## JD (Oct 28, 2010)

STEVETERRY said:


> Actually, types ST, STW, STO, STOW, STOO, and STOOW are allowable Extra Hard Usage thermoplastic types.
> 
> Even though they are allowed in article 520 venues (see table 400.5 Note 6), they are not popular in those applications.
> 
> ST


 
Refering more to the "home depot" type ungraded plastic cables found in abundance as compaired to the "S" type thermoplastics.


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## JD (Oct 28, 2010)

PadawanGeek said:


> Today I met with the facilities director and it didn't go so well. I pointed out NEC article 520 and that room was both considered a theatrical area and the cables we are using are type S, but he didn't care. I also suggested that we unplug and coil the cables up when not in use, but he said that too was unacceptable. The conversation ended with him threatening to take down the whole set (even though it was compliant with code) and call the fire marshall.
> 
> I later talked with our church's LD and he said that he faced the same problem on the church's main stage and ended up talking to the fire marshall and getting it all worked out. The problem is that I'm a teenage volunteer so a meeting between me and the fire marshall probably wouldn't happen. At this point, I don't know what else to do because I'm compliant with code already, whether the facilities director believes it or not.


 
Although never one's "first choice", the fire marshal is not necessarily your enemy. In many cases, it takes someone in higher authority to straighten out misunderstandings about code issues. I have had it work in my favor in the past.


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## derekleffew (Oct 28, 2010)

PadawanGeek said:


> ...At this point, I don't know what else to do because I'm compliant with code already, whether the facilities director believes it or not.


"Compliant with code" is a meaningless statement, unless you cite the code. Even then, your equipment and methods may comply with NFPA 70, but that doesn't automatically mean compliance with CAL/OSHA 1910/1926. Further, your fire marshal or AHJ may have approved something, but the final word is likely to be that of the inspector of the building's insurance carrier. No insurance, no occupancy, nor "beneficial use" of the facility. Perhaps this is where your "over-zealous" Facilities Director is coming from?


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 28, 2010)

JD said:


> Refering more to the "home depot" type ungraded plastic cables found in abundance as compaired to the "S" type thermoplastics.


 
That "home depot" cable actually is graded. It's usually 16/3 SJTW.


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## kicknargel (Oct 28, 2010)

You could always ask your fire marshal. For a walk-through exhibit I did once, they allowed us to plug one 12ga SO cord into an outlet, and one breaker-protected power strip into that. The fixtures had to go directly into the strip with no more extensions.


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## mstaylor (Oct 29, 2010)

Wouldn't calling an electrical inspecter be better than the fire marshall?


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## museav (Oct 29, 2010)

To expand on Derek's comment, even if you are compliant with one section of NEC that does not necessarily make you compliant with NEC in general. And being compliant with NEC in general does not necessarily make you compliant with the local building codes, which may include modifications or additions to the NEC.

Unless you are a licensed Electrician or Electrical Engineer, your interpretation of the Electrical Code does not carry much weight. And even those parties interpretations are secondary to the interpretation of the Authority Having Jurisdiction. Also, as Derek noted, if there ever is a related problem it may become a matter of the insurer's and court's interpretation. Basically, it's not the most preferential interpretation you can get that should be followed but rather the most restrictive interpretation from any of those who matter. And I'd get approval of any known deviations in writing, not just a verbal approval.

I'd also be careful of whether some of the NEC being referenced is addressing the cords on the devices versus the use of extension cords. As far as I am aware, using extension cords to serve a 'permanent' installation or plugging a plug strip into an extension cord are prohibited.

Finally, in this case I'd also be careful on the interpretation of the category of space. I would guess that if you define the space as a "Theatrical Area" then it may no longer be able to be considered a Worship Space and that opens up a completely different set of issues.


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## JD (Oct 29, 2010)

Reminds me of a page from an old code book from the 70s that stated all housing wiring must be recessed at least 3 inches from the finished surface. Well, unless you built your home with 2x8's for wall studs, that's not going to happen! If someone wants to shut you down, there's a code book somewhere that will do the job for them!


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## techno89 (Oct 29, 2010)

this whole thing is confusing me? Isn't a stage pin cable technically an extension cord? my whole theatre is run off them. straight from the dimmers to electrics all stage pin. and now in my school ill be running from junction boxes on the sides of the stage onto the hang pipes (electrics) some 12 guage cable, it going to be permanent as far as i know, the more I think about this the more if confuses me.


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## STEVETERRY (Oct 30, 2010)

techno89 said:


> this whole thing is confusing me? Isn't a stage pin cable technically an extension cord? my whole theatre is run off them. straight from the dimmers to electrics all stage pin. and now in my school ill be running from junction boxes on the sides of the stage onto the hang pipes (electrics) some 12 guage cable, it going to be permanent as far as i know, the more I think about this the more if confuses me.


 
The issue here is that the NEC requires Extra Hard Usage cord (Type S, SO, and derivatives) in theatres and similar locations covered by Article 520. The "extension cords" in this thread are either unrated or are Junior Hard Service cord (Type SJ, SJO, and derivatives), which is not permitted in Article 520 venues except for twofers, adaptors, and breakout assemblies, all with certain limitations.

ST


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## tjrobb (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't know where they found them, but the college I went to and worked for used 20' long power strips (20' cable to the breakout point). They were, IIRC, made by Stanley and the inspector never said a word (we called specifically to ask about them). It was the only way we were able to get power from the wall to the end of the "peninsula" desking arrangement that held 8 PC's and 8 monitors. As for them being SO, SJ, etc., I have no idea. Maybe something like this would be the way to go...


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