# High School Shrek The Musical Light Plot



## spydan (Jul 19, 2014)

Hello!

I just became the lighting tech for my high school and am a rising sophomore. We usually run three shows a year: a fall play, a spring musical, and a summer musical in addition to regular school assemblies, talent shows, etc.. I have little experience with lighting, having only learned the basics during my freshman year. Currently, I am designing the plot for the upcoming musical Shrek and I was wondering if I could get some suggestions to make it better since I am really new to this whole thing.

Our school is equipped with Source Fours, 6" and 8" Colortran Fresnels, ETC PARs, and Colortran far cyc lights. We have 160 circuits: 10 floor pockets with 3 circuits each, four electrics with 20 circuits each, and two FOH positions with 25 circuits each. And just in case you need to know, we use a ETC Element as our console and have an ETC Sensor 3 Dimming system.

Several of the scenes within the musical require saturated colors, specifically red and purple. Additionally, there are several normal day/night scenes. Also, I was wondering how to correctly light a drop since we have rented three for this musical and I wasn't sure how many lights/what types/what gels to use for lighting them.

Attached is the measurements of the theater, the plot I have so far and a picture of the theater just to give a better idea of the space and the height of the FOH catwalks (I couldn't find one with the stage in it).


The questions I have:
-How to light a drop
-Will the plot provided suit the requirements above 
-What can I improve

An additional note: On the plot, I didn't know how to draw lighting trees (this is my first time drawing a plot), so the tan circles next to Floor Pockets 1-4 are lighting trees with 3 source fours gelled with R02 each (total of four trees).


If there are any additional questions from what I have provided above, please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks for any tips, tricks, or help!


----------



## MNicolai (Jul 19, 2014)

> Several of the scenes within the musical require saturated colors...



Why's that?


> ...specifically red and purple.



How did you decide on those colors?


> Additionally, there are several normal day/night scenes.



What do you intend to do about that?


> Also, I was wondering how to correctly light a drop since we have rented three for this musical and I wasn't sure how many lights/what types/what gels to use for lighting them.



Why do you want to light these drops?
What are you trying to achieve with these drops?
Where are each of these drops located?
What are each of these drops?


> Floor Pockets 1-4 are lighting trees with 3 source fours gelled with R02 each (total of four trees).



Why are you using booms for side lighting?
How did you decide R02 was the gel to use?
Why are all of your side lights gelled the same colors?


----------



## spydan (Jul 20, 2014)

MNicolai said:


> Why's that?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for the reply,
I decided using saturated colors because of how I thought they looked during videos and pictures online of the scenes. The red is for a rickety bridge over lava. The purple is being used for a scene (If you have ever seen the Musical/Movie) in Fiona's tower where she is singing to herself. I saw the attached picture online of the same scene and liked the look. The daylight scenes I was planning on using the R09 and a little R80. For the night scenes I thought of the reverse, more R80 with less R09. I am lighting the drops because I assumed that just is what is done on such a large piece (if it's not, let me know). The three drops are a forest, a swamp, and outside a town 
http://www.kenmarkbackdrops.com/backdrop/948d-dark-forest
http://www.kenmarkbackdrops.com/backdrop/017d-southern-low-country
http://www.kenmarkbackdrops.com/backdrop/842d-village-with-castle
I am not quite sure of the exact bar number the drops are on yet, but I do know that they will be behind 3rd electric. We are using booms for side lighting gelled with R02 because that is how they have always done it at our theater for musicals, but I don't know if any other combinations would look better (this is my first show I'm in charge of designing).

Thanks, and I am open to any suggestions you may have!


----------



## np18358 (Jul 20, 2014)

Ok, a few thoughts. I did Shrek last summer, and I am very familiar with the show. First off, don't necessarily try and make your show look just like the professional show. In all honesty, it will be very hard, and it won't be YOUR show. Is your set identical to the set above? If you are using this simply as concept to convey ideas to the director, I understand.
Also, if you could list more info regarding how many instruments you have, that might help. 
A few suggestions - 
Sidelight, its great, and I love it, but why do you want all the instruments in 02?? I like to do a warm head, and a cool shin, and then put a saturate in the mid. When I did shrek, I had L174 (steel blue) in the shin, L790 (No color pink), and L181HT (congo blue) in the mid, and for some of the scenes, I had stagehands switch this out with R339, which is Broadway Pink. Do what works for you, just sharing my experiences. 
Consider having one side of side light more intense than the other for daylight scenes to represent sunlight (works better with high side, but can be done with booms.)
One issue I did have with the side light was making sure not to draw attention to Farquad's real legs. 
Toplight - you appear to have a three color wash system. Since you have R09 as frontlight, do you really also need it as toplight? might you instead want another color? A lavender or lighter purple?
LOVE the fact that you only have green back and high sidelight. It's great. I have seen many Shrek's where all the characters are in Ghoulish green frontlight, and it doesn't read well. This looks great. You might want to consider adding some gobos (foliage or breakups) to texture the set, and add to the forest setting. Especially if you have haze or fog (low lying is commonly used for the I Know its Today scene).
How are you going to light the prison/torture scenes?
Consider how are going to light the dragon? How are you guys doing your dragon. That was one of my main issues. Hiding the operators, making sure that the fogs breath was lit, and making the whole thing shine. 
Love the Indigo Back light, just know the R59 burns quickly if on at full. If you have a long run, it may make sense to look into the Lee High Temperature Gels. They have L707 (Ultimate Violet) and L181 (Congo Blue) in the High Temperature.
In terms of the backdrop, it depends. Where are they onstage, and in relationship to the CYC? If you can get the two forests ones in a place where you can light them with the green cyc lights, it can accentuate the colors in the drop. Also maybe a hint of red in the darker forest, and some blue in the lighter forest. The village backdrop might be trickier. Try just using your wash, and see how it lights it. You have to play with it and see how it works. Are they going to be used in combo with a scrim??


Feel Free to PM me with any questions, I'd be happy to talk to another student.

Also, I can certainly help with the exploding bird, transformation, dragon, and Pinocchio's nose. Just give me a shout.


----------



## Dane Boulton (Jul 20, 2014)

Hi! 
Your plot looks great. And some of the things that have been suggested in this thread sound like they would benefit you.
May I ask what software you use to draw your plots? It looks great!


----------



## spydan (Jul 20, 2014)

Dane Boulton said:


> Hi!
> Your plot looks great. And some of the things that have been suggested in this thread sound like they would benefit you.
> May I ask what software you use to draw your plots? It looks great!



Hi!
I used LXFree which is a native OSX program, but it also comes in a Java version that will run on Windows and Linux computers with a Java runtime installed. Here's the link: http://lx.claudeheintzdesign.com/lxfree.html


----------



## spydan (Jul 20, 2014)

@np18358 
Our theater never really had a full inventory of our fixtures, which is something that I am hoping to do after this show is over. What I do know is approximate numbers. We have about 25 Source Fours, 20 ETC PARs, 30 6" Colortran Fresnels, 15 8" Colortran Fresnels, and 6 Colortran three light far cyc instruments. Additionally, we rent the 12 extra Source fours we need for the trees. For Farquaad's torture chamber, I was planning on mostly blue (R80) with some hints of red (R27) and enough FOH to see the characters and also have a special on Farquaad and Gingy.

As far as the dragon goes, I know that we are renting some type of puppet, but I know nothing more than that as of right now. I believe it is coming in tomorrow, so I may be able to give more details then. As of right now, I don't really have any idea what I am going to do with the dragon.

Thanks for the tip for the High Temperature gels-I will look into that.

With the backdrops, I know that there is a scrim being used for some of the scenes, which I do believe happens to be in combo with the forest. I am unsure if they are planning on using our white or black scrim, but I think they will probably go with black.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## derekleffew (Jul 20, 2014)

spydan said:


> The questions I have:
> -How to light a drop ...


One lights a drop exactly the same way one lights a cyc. Ideally the drop should hang on an adjacent batten to the cyc, then only one set of lights is required. Depending on the paint treatment, either white light (or RGB mixed to white) may be desirable. Some drops take colored light very well (i.e., turn on only the blue lights for nighttime scenes), other drops only look "right" with pale, natural light.

If the drop must hang somewhere the cyc lights can't work, a row of R40 strips or MR-16 strips 2-3' DS is standard. If a color change is not necessary, the same color is used in all three/four circuits.

But every rule has an exception/is made to be broken. Often a flat, even wash is not desirable. A famous lighting designer used to say, "a backdrop *is not* a football field." He liked to add Fresnels and Lekos in with the cyc lights, to give a mottled, textural treatment. Sometimes it's quite appropriate to light only parts of a drop, or to purposefully light it unevenly. If someone mentions it, just say, "I meant to do that. It was a design statement." Speaking of, see also http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/?title=Lighting-Concept-Lighting-Statement . Ideally, the nuts and bolts and amps and watts are secondary considerations, merely tools to achieve the desired effect, not the end in and of itself.

EDIT: On your PDF, the FOH positions are labelled backwards. FOH#1 (or Cove #1, Catwalk#1) is *always* closest to the plaster line; FOH#2 is farthest. This is opposite of how overstage electrics are labelled.


spydan said:


> ... I decided using saturated colors because of how I thought they looked during videos and pictures online of the scenes. ...


Bad answer. Very bad answer. Are you a Lighting Designer, or merely a plagiarist recreating someone else's vision you've seen online? Often a director will caution his/her cast NOT to watch movies or videos of other productions, for fear they will mimic what they see rather than make the role their own. Hack directors (and designers) will say, "I want it just like the Broadway production," with sub-standard talent and a $50 budget.


----------



## spydan (Jul 20, 2014)

@derekleffew 
Thanks for the advice on the lighting of the drops, I will try some different things out when I'm in the school next. I was unsure when labeling the FOH positions because when the connector strips were wired, they wired FOH 1 with circuits 26-50 and FOH 2 with 1-25, so I assumed when naming them on the plot, the lower numbers would be FOH 1 and FOH 2 would have the higher numbers. I'll be sure to correct that on my plot though! As far as getting inspiration from the other shows online, I really was looking for a tool to try to describe the vision I was having for the scenes to the Director, seeing that it is my first time doing this, I wasn't sure the best way to communicate some ideas that I already had and shared with others that have done the show before me. I in no way expect that as an amateur I could create as solid designs as a professional or someone more experienced in this sort of thing.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## derekleffew (Jul 20, 2014)

Sorry if I was overly harsh.

spydan said:


> ... I really was looking for a tool to try to describe the vision I was having for the scenes to the Director, ...


One oft-used classroom exercise is to find a painting (or sometimes photograph, but *not* of the show) that conveys the same mood as that you wish to convey in a particular scene. Not (necessarily) that you are going to use the same colors/angles/whatever in the painting, just "how the painting makes you feel." 

The same can be done with a piece of music; again, not from the show. And if a play, not even something you would necessarily want as preshow/ walk-in music. Just something that conveys, to you, the emotion.

Conferences with the director/rest of the design team, are where perhaps 75% of the "art" happens. The other 25% is merely execution.


----------



## spydan (Jul 20, 2014)

Hello,

I have adjusted the plot one more time since the original posted above (version two is attached). Im going to hang this plot tomorrow (Monday) and see how it looks. When I'm done, I'll try to post some pictures of the show! Anything else noticed that can be improved on the plot would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for all the help so far!


----------



## np18358 (Jul 20, 2014)

derekleffew said:


> Sorry if I was overly harsh.
> One oft-used classroom exercise is to find a painting (or sometimes photograph, but *not* of the show) that conveys the same mood as that you wish to convey in a particular scene. Not (necessarily) that you are going to use the same colors/angles/whatever in the painting, just "how the painting makes you feel."




I have sometimes heard this referenced to as a color palette picture, specifically when in relationship to color, shape, line, form, and texture. 

My school requires that we have one for each design, however I don't feel that it should be a requirement, as I often don't draw my inspiration for a design from a single picture, but from a large collection of pictures, and research regarding the time period. Furthermore, for Lighting Design, I feel that the colors represented in a particular painting or picture often don't transfer well to light. YMMV.


----------



## josh88 (Jul 21, 2014)

I think that's why Derek mentioned for a particular scene, one picture rarely shows the mood for a whole show. Colors may not translate but the mood of a painting and what it's making ya person feel are just as important to what you may be feeling in a given scene. And you can start to break down what parts of the painting give you those feelings and use them, especially if you're working closely with the scenic designer.


Via tapatalk


----------



## chieftfac (Jul 21, 2014)

derekleffew said:


> Bad answer. Very bad answer. Are you a Lighting Designer, or merely a plagiarist recreating someone else's vision you've seen online? Often a director will caution his/her cast NOT to watch movies or videos of other productions, for fear they will mimic what they see rather than make the role their own. Hack directors (and designers) will say, "I want it just like the Broadway production," with sub-standard talent and a $50 budget.




If the director is proud that the staging and dancing look just like the Broadway show, go with the flow.... but that's a whole other topic... sounds like you've meet the directors at our local community theater...


----------



## spydan (Aug 3, 2014)

Just to give an update on the show... It went very well and looked great thanks to all of your suggestions! Here's a link to see a bit of the show https://youtube.com/watch?v=4L0fNwL_ST8


----------

