# ADVICE sought: Cotton Velour vs. Synthetic



## ChubRock (Jun 26, 2010)

Our main drape was replaced right before I got the gig as theater manager. It is a heavy synthetic, but shiny. No one likes it because of the shine and the fact that it isn't opaque. That being said...

I now have the charge of getting replacement legs, midstage and upstage travelers. I have called in two vendors for quotes in Mpls and both have been great to work with. 

I asked for a good-better-best set of quotes so I can present them to the person with the cash. Unfortunately we do not have a scene shop, so our stage is our construction and painting area. Our current cotton velours are 30+ years old.

Here is a synopsis of both quotes. I also asked them to update our carriers, pulleys and rope to make them pull easier. I am looking for advice about why I shouldn't buy acrylic that doesn't shine since it is easier to care for, IFR and other reasons. Each quote at the lowest quality has exceeded my budget, but that's another story. I think I can get up to $20k with hardware if needed. Thanks for your sage advice in advance.


Vendor #1 (including labor) : all 50% full
Good 21 oz. Cotton Velour: $13,089
Better 25 oz. Cotton Velour: $13,970
Best Synthetic CRESCENT Synthetic Velour: $15,568
Track hardware Total: $5,528

Vendor #2 (including labor) : all 50% full
Good 14 oz. PLATEAU Synthetic Velour: $10.963
Better 20 oz. CRESCENT Synthetic Velour: $13,214
Best 24 oz. Charisma Synthetic Velour: $17,765
Track hardware total: $3,570


What does 50% full mean?

Cliff


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## Footer (Jun 26, 2010)

I just purchased all new soft goods for my venue and went through the same thing. I went with 21oz marvel velour for everything. I got samples of each and did not really like the light taking qualities of the synthetic samples I received. 

Fullness is a measure of how the soft good is pleated. Essentially, at 50% fullness they use 50% more fabric then the final measurement of the good. So, if you have a 10' wide leg, they use 15' of fabric and pleat the excess in. 

A good demo of this is here.. Curtain Fullness at Rose Brand

The trend currently in professional houses is to have a main drape with at least 50% fullness and no fullness on any other good. The only exception is sometimes 50% fullness on an upstage traveler. If you want to save some cash, removing fullness will make the project much cheaper in both materials and labor.


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## MPowers (Jun 27, 2010)

Something no one has pointed out is the Flame resistancy and durability of the various fabrics. 
-First, not all synthetic velours are shinny. Encore and Charisma are flat, no shine.
-Second, synthetics are IFR, Inherently Flame Retardant for the life of the fabric. While cotton velours must be treated and re-tested periodically.
-Third, Synthetics tend to cost a bit more for the same weight of fabric, but last longer.
-Last but not least, is the fabric durability over time.

Re the shine, require full yard samples of the fabrics so you can see what the fabric will look like. Place it under different lighting angles and colors. For example some black velours look absolutely red under certain blue shades of light.

Re Flame retardancy. IFR fabrics are, as the name implies, inherently flame retardant for the life of the fabric and never have to be retreated or tested. Depending on local fire regs, treated fabrics must be retreated every 5 to 10 years to maintain the fire retardancy certification. If a treated fabric is washed, it removes the flame retardant treatment and the goods must be re-treated, which can cost as much as new goods when shipping, labor and other costs are added in. Plain ordinary water on treated goods can cause chemical leaching resulting in white powdery spots that are almost impossible to remove.

Durability. Generally, the synthetic fabrics are stronger and more durable and will last 15% to 20% longer than the cotton velours. They are less likely to tear if snagged.

Ultimately, as of now, the best cotton velours, especially the 26 and 32 oz weights look the absolute best when new. However they need to be replaced sooner and tend to look faded and shabby toward the end.

Which is best for your theatre depends on both money up front and money down the road. Also the type of treatment and care they will get in your theatre will help determine which is best.

Especially in school theatres and stages, the IFR issue can be a big item for liability assessment.

Hope this helps a bit.

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.
675 NE 45th Place, Des Moines, Iowa, 50313


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## kiwitechgirl (Jun 27, 2010)

Footer said:


> The trend currently in professional houses is to have a main drape with at least 50% fullness and no fullness on any other good. The only exception is sometimes 50% fullness on an upstage traveler. If you want to save some cash, removing fullness will make the project much cheaper in both materials and labor.



I'd totally agree with this - I hate, hate, hate any softgoods with fullness except the main drape, but particularly legs and borders. Flat softgoods will save you money and, IMHO, look better as well!


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## michaelburgoyne (Jun 29, 2010)

You should also note that many lighter weight velours are not opaque, especially the synthetic / IFR fabrics. Charisma is nearly opaque and probably looks most similar to cotton. I would be wary of Crescent.

We sometimes specify flat legs with 50% extra width so that you can tie-in the fullness when desired. To use the earlier example, if you need a 10'-0" wide leg you order it 15'-0" wide (sewn flat) and then gather it on the pipe when you want 50% fullness or fold back the extra 5'-0" when you prefer flat. The extra width also allows you to narrow down the stage for a smaller event. Of course this option saves you no money, you're buying the same amount of fabric as required for 50% fullness and adding some webbing and grommets.


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