# What paint do you use on your stage floor?



## gafftaper

I was shocked when I couldn't find a thread discussing what paint people are using on their stage floors. So here it is! 

My new theater is in need of a paint job and I have no record of what my predecessor used. I'm not very happy with the current paint as I get a pretty strong light reflection off the floor. 

What Brand/Product line of paint are you using? 
What color are you using? Do you like Black or very dark gray?
Flat? Satin? Egg shell?
What are your thoughts on the cleaning benefits of using a satin or egg shell vs. the lighting benefits of flat.


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## sk8rsdad

There are several threads but they are all cluttered with crud.

What Brand/Product line of paint are you using? Behr Interior Satin

Often black. Sometimes dark grey for dance recitals if they aren't bringing in a dance floor. We repaint as needed for a production so faux wood, faux stone, using Rosco products.

Satin looks blacker than Flat under most lighting conditions due to the way the reflections bounce.


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## josh88

I'm using Glidden interior satin. 

Pretty much always pure black

I'd been using flat, but it scuffed up so quickly, I switched to satin and it holds up better and just keeps looking good longer because it's a little more durable.


Via tapatalk


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## rsmentele

When I was painting the stage every month or so, after a production, I always used flat, as its the cheapest!


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## markviml

Rosco Tough Prime Black

For a Performing Arts Center floor, (almost) never custom painted. Usually repaint 3-4 times a year.

***Edit: Wasn't paying attention, should have voted satin instead of flat. Move one of those votes.


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## MarshallPope

I prefer Tough Prime, just because it seems to cover a bit better and hold up a bit longer. However, at my primary space, we use Valspar pre-mixed flat black from Lowes. It's the only pre-mixed black we can find in our area. We do scenic painting on the deck for most productions (Rosco Off-Broadway) and paint black between shows.


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## gafftaper

Those of you using flat are you primarily doing it because of price or do you feel it helps with preventing light reflections?


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## venuetech

black semi-gloss thinned, does not hold the dust like a flat paint, easy to sweep.


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## coldnorth57

cheap flat black latex


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## gafftapegreenia

I think I typically roll flat black, but usually not by my choice. If I could always chose, I would go with Tough Prime Black. If it needs to last, seal it with a coat of polyurethane.

Not sure about Chicago yet, as I haven't checked, but in Atlanta at Lowes I could get Valspar Ultra Gloss Black for $30/gallon and Olympic Icon Flat Black for $20/gallon.

I'll make a note to check whats on the shelf the next time I'm at Menards, Home Despot or Lowes.

2019 update: In Chicago we were using PPG's Break-Through for "backstage black".


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## StradivariusBone

I'm in the same boat as Gafftaper, our stage floor has not been painted in some time, trying to find the best choice. I would like to sand it down first, but I'm also having trouble locating a floor sander. Rental is an absolute nightmare with how our district runs it, so I'm also looking at spot sanding, mopping a dozen times and calling it good. It's between RTP and one of the Lowe's satin blacks.

-ED


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## sk8rsdad

We had complaints when we used Rosco Tough Prime because it turns pointe shoes and ballet slippers black. Putting a clearcoat on top made the floor too slick. Hence we use interior latex satin paint. Our Home Depot mixes up a concoction that is a deep base and nothing but lamp black pigment.


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## josh88

You can always do that with anybody who mixes paint. base 4 with 12 ounces of straight black. They don't need a formula or anything. We would do that for customers pretty often and that's what I have them do when I buy it. Even what looks like solid black on a paint chip often still has a splash of other stuff in the mix. No reason for it when you can get pure black pigment.


Via tapatalk


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## Jay Ashworth

12 oz in what; 5 gal?

Sent from my SPH-L720


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## gafftapegreenia

josh88 said:


> You can always do that with anybody who mixes paint. base 4 with 12 ounces of straight black. They don't need a formula or anything. We would do that for customers pretty often and that's what I have them do when I buy it. Even what looks like solid black on a paint chip often still has a splash of other stuff in the mix. No reason for it when you can get pure black pigment.
> 
> 
> Via tapatalk



What brand are you talking about here? I assume this could be different based upon brand. I don't know as much about the paint industry as I would like to.


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## josh88

12 ounces per gallon. I worked for lowes at the time so we did it with valspar and Olympic, now I've done it with the Glidden I use. I suppose it could be different per brand but the guy who taught me this initially said that with a brands deepest base there is always space for something like 14 or 15 ounces and that 12 ounces of tint would always give us pure black. 

This was from a guy who was a pro painter for 20 years, then worked in a commercial paint plant and had been mixing paint for about 15 years. If I remember right, Les on the forum still does work for lowes paint, he may be able to back me up


Via tapatalk


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## Scenemaster60

I like to use Behr Porch & Patio Floor Low-Lustre. Home Depot about $25 a gallon. If the floor is all scraped up OR has been painted a lighter color for something I usually throw down a single coat of black Tough Prime before I overcoat with the Behr.


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## Les

josh88 said:


> 12 ounces per gallon. I worked for lowes at the time so we did it with valspar and Olympic, now I've done it with the Glidden
> 
> If I remember right, Len on the forum still does work for lowes paint, he may be able to back me up
> 
> 
> Via tapatalk



That was me! I left Lowe's a few years back, but Josh is right - 12oz of Lamp Black colorant per 1 gallon in a deep base (also known as Base 4, Base 5 (Olympic), and clear/neutral base in some others). I don't know why paint companies never agreed on a base system.

The Lamp Black was from what I remember a "blue-based" colorant but that's just a technicality and I'm not sure if there are any alternatives when talking about standard paint. I don't remember if there were any true black paint chips on the wall - most "black" or "graphite" colors do in fact have hints of yellow, blue, and even Titanium White colorant as strange as that sounds, so the best way to get that true black at HD or Lowe's is to just go to the counter and ask for a pure black. If the employee has more than one month of experience, they should know what you're talking about. If not, you may have to explain .

Just make sure they use a clear/deep base. Any other bases don't have room for the colorant.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StradivariusBone

The vote goes to flat, but it seems like more of the discussion was geared towards satin?


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## gafftaper

StradivariusBone said:


> The vote goes to flat, but it seems like more of the discussion was geared towards satin?



Yeah that is odd. So to all you flat black purchasers, I ask why? Is it price or is there a performance reason?


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## Les

My guess would be that a preference toward flat might be lighting related. The more gloss (satin and above) will be more durable by nature. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## josh88

I was only a letter off! I thought it was you les but then something didn't seem right and I went with Len haha. I haven't voted because on tapatalk I don't even see the poll so I'd be one more to satin. I started with flat to keep down floor reflections. But after moving to satin I haven't noticed much of a difference really and it's worth it for the added durability.


Via tapatalk


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## gafftapegreenia

I guess I've always used flat because I can grab it premixed from the shelf. But now that I know what to ask the paint department for, I'm going to try satin next time I'm able.


The couple times we did black in college it was a gloss or semi gloss porch paint. No idea on brand.


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## Christopher Cook

Flat Black, Valspar 4000 Series. last year I experimented with Satin on your "Blackbox" Floor because it is easier to dry mop. I repaint the stage once a year. it gets pretty bad just before the next painting.


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## Footer

This is what I use: Tough Shield® Floor and Patio Coating TS-3000, Satin



Its acrylic satin and comes with a clear base that they fill up with a ton of color to get to a really dark gray. Makes finding rogue gaff a bit easier. Stuff cost 30 bucks a gallon... but... I only paint each of my stages once a year. It holds up to tapping, road cases, Marley taping, clogging, riser sliding, boom moves, and just about whatever other type of abuse you see in a road house. It mops clean and does not have that "grippyness" that most flats do. Half the price of tough prime and personally I think its better. 

What it really comes down to is how many times you paint a year. If you paint the deck per production and have to go back to black at the end of each show, buy something cheap and latex. If you only want to paint once a year, go acrylic and do it right. Its going to cost more, but you get what you pay for.


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## NickVon

I remember seeing a TouchPrime competitor paint made by PRG on the forums some time in the last 2 weeks. Can't find the thread now. Am I miss remembering, or can someone point me in the right direction?


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## Colin

NickVon said:


> I remember seeing a TouchPrime competitor paint made by PRG on the forums some time in the last 2 weeks. Can't find the thread now. Am I miss remembering, or can someone point me in the right direction?



Are you thinking of PPG Break-Through?


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## JohnD

Colin beat me, here is one mention:
https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/rosco-tough-prime-vs-kilz-etc.37401/#post-339206


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## Henning

https://www.rosco.com/scenic/toughprime.cfm?menuReturn=quickTheatrical


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## norwintd

We have been using this since we overlaid the stage with hardboard a few years ago
http://www.ppghighperformancecoatin...ECH®-Int-Ext-Satin-DTM-Industrial-Enamel.aspx
it has held up really well.


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## burgherandfries

The stage was a semi-gloss black when I came in which led to an awful amount of reflection. We searched for over a week to find Flat Black Porch and Floor, but nobody would mix it for us. We wound up going with Black Satin Porch and Floor from Sherwin Williams, which actually ended up more of an eggshell sheen.. It's held up pretty well and cut down on the light bounce.


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## Les

burgherandfries said:


> The stage was a semi-gloss black when I came in which led to an awful amount of reflection. We searched for over a week to find Flat Black Porch and Floor, but nobody would mix it for us. We wound up going with Black Satin Porch and Floor from Sherwin Williams, which actually ended up more of an eggshell sheen.. It's held up pretty well and cut down on the light bounce.



I was going to say.
The bases (not the tint) are what determine the sheen, and I've never seen Porch & Floor bases in anything other than satin or gloss which is why nobody would mix it for you (because they couldn't). This is likely due to the fact that outdoor porch paint needs to resist wear - a trait that diminishes as you go down in sheen. It's designed to accept crystalline silica to address traction issues, but that obviously doesn't help matters for stage use.


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## Luke Holliger

To add to this conversation:
I am currently in the processing of testing paint products vs hardboard in my venue. We just finished a full replace of all our old Masonite surface and I am working hard to ensure that the paint is right. I have scrap cuts left over from the install and each has a different paint product on it. The 4 that I currently am testing are Roscoe Tough Prime, Roscoe Color Coat, a new formulation of the Tough Prime that is still in development, and PPG Breakout. Each test surface was prepped by wiping them clean and then allowing 24 hours to rest to ensure that there was no moisture in the hardboard. I then covered each surface with 2 coats of each test paint and left all 4 to cure for 72 hours. This morning I put a strip of Pro Gaff, a strip of spike tape, a section was painted with another water based paint, and then all of these have been left to sit for 24 hours. Tomorrow I am going to peel up the tape that is on each to check adhesion, and repeat the process with the second layer of the misc paint. I will also recover the water based product with the original sample and repeat the process again. (I am still waiting on a few sample products from rustolium)

At this point, I am very impressed with the PPG product. It had the smoothest coverage and looked very clean when it dried. I am hopeful that it will hold up to all the tests the rest of this week.


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## BillConnerFASTC

We did similar a few years ago. Ran a steel wheeled caster over it - tape and paint - as well.


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## gafftaper

Luke Holliger said:


> I am hopeful that it will hold up to all the tests the rest of this week.


So it's been a couple days. We want to know how the mid week tests are going?


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## peacefulone61

I have had great luck with California porch/floor black. I have been using flat but might try satin based on this thread.


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## Pie4Weebl

I'm not sure this is too far off topic for this thread, but I have a concrete shop floor to paint, what do you guys like for that purpose?


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## gafftapegreenia

Pie4Weebl said:


> I'm not sure this is too far off topic for this thread, but I have a concrete shop floor to paint, what do you guys like for that purpose?



Just a good quality sealing. Any paint comes up over time and then you get trapped in a painting cycle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC

Luke Holliger said:


> To add to this conversation:
> I am currently in the processing of testing paint products vs hardboard in my venue. We just finished a full replace of all our old Masonite surface and I am working hard to ensure that the paint is right. I have scrap cuts left over from the install and each has a different paint product on it. The 4 that I currently am testing are Roscoe Tough Prime, Roscoe Color Coat, a new formulation of the Tough Prime that is still in development, and PPG Breakout. Each test surface was prepped by wiping them clean and then allowing 24 hours to rest to ensure that there was no moisture in the hardboard. I then covered each surface with 2 coats of each test paint and left all 4 to cure for 72 hours. This morning I put a strip of Pro Gaff, a strip of spike tape, a section was painted with another water based paint, and then all of these have been left to sit for 24 hours. Tomorrow I am going to peel up the tape that is on each to check adhesion, and repeat the process with the second layer of the misc paint. I will also recover the water based product with the original sample and repeat the process again. (I am still waiting on a few sample products from rustolium)
> 
> At this point, I am very impressed with the PPG product. It had the smoothest coverage and looked very clean when it dried. I am hopeful that it will hold up to all the tests the rest of this week.



No report? Would be nice know what you found.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Pie4Weebl said:


> I'm not sure this is too far off topic for this thread, but I have a concrete shop floor to paint, what do you guys like for that purpose?


Like gaffergreenia said, what is the goal? Different color, dusting, cover existing stains, other? Worried about slip prevention?


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## Footer

gafftapegreenia said:


> Just a good quality sealing. Any paint comes up over time and then you get trapped in a painting cycle.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Agreed. Just wax it. Otherwise, your looking at epoxy paint and its very expensive and a real pain to put down.


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## MarshallPope

We just use Sherwin Williams exterior satin for our shop floor. It only ever pulls up in a few small spots when tape is adhered to the floor. Otherwise, it just needs repainting every few years to get rid of paint spills and whatnot.


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## Pie4Weebl

The floor had been previously painted and now looks pretty mediocre, we just wanna gussy the place up a bit!


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## Footer

Pie4Weebl said:


> The floor had been previously painted and now looks pretty mediocre, we just wanna gussy the place up a bit!



Do you have any idea as to what is down now? Take a fleck up if you can and go to a paint store and see what they suggest. Odds are they will want you to strip it before you throw down something new. Depending on what you have now how you strip it can very greatly. Good luck! How much square footage did you end up picking up?


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## BillConnerFASTC

Pie4Weebl said:


> The floor had been previously painted and now looks pretty mediocre, we just wanna gussy the place up a bit!


OK. I think I'd just clean it really well and roll a cost of quality acrylic down. PPG Breakthrough is an option, but a few touch ups over the years seems preferable to striping what's there now as many coatings would require. But find a good paint store that will access tech reps of the paint manufacturers.


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## Pie4Weebl

BillConnerASTC said:


> OK. I think I'd just clean it really well and roll a cost of quality acrylic down. PPG Breakthrough is an option, but a few touch ups over the years seems preferable to striping what's there now as many coatings would require. But find a good paint store that will access tech reps of the paint manufacturers.


I like that idea, we are only signing a one year lease to start, so we don't need something which will last for decades.


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## Pie4Weebl

Footer said:


> Do you have any idea as to what is down now? Take a fleck up if you can and go to a paint store and see what they suggest. Odds are they will want you to strip it before you throw down something new. Depending on what you have now how you strip it can very greatly. Good luck! How much square footage did you end up picking up?


Based on the recomendation of the guy at home depot (who surprisingly seemed to have a clue) we picked up some cans of a $35 one part epoxy garage floor paint, as well as some concrete patching kits to fill out cracks, seemed to work well enough:




We bought some of the non-branded acid as a floor prep and scrubbed it to all get out first, then applied two coats of paint.


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## Jfisher2008

almost after every show, we, Gallaudet Theatre Arts Program, paint the stage by using, Rosco Tough Prime Black Flat. one- 5 Gallon usually last me 2 shows. (who knows how many layers there is... last time we stripped the Main Stage floor down to bare wood was in early 80's, the building is 60's). 

surely like most of us, our stage is not only for our productions, we do rent them out to other Dept on Campus and outside groups, and flat is more light-glare forgiving than satin/semi-gloss.

using Rosco Tough Prime Black Flat gives me 90% no light bounce, most of our renter uses our 10' by 20' Projector screen. having Flat is good for us.


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## lwinters630

We just had our stage which is 3 1/2 planks lightly sanded, filled spots and two coats of PPG Breakthrough wrought iron black flat. So far I am very impressed. Spike tape pulls clean.

For those posts that have used epoxy garage paint in shop, DON'T. It cannot be recoated without serious prep work.


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## variable

I can't see the marginal price difference between flat and satin guiding too many TD's decision making. I personally prefer Breakout Satin Black for one-coat paint jobs between production and because i hate how dirty flat black gets. You have to mop flat black a lot to keep it flat. As an LD I can see the virtue of a flat floor because light doesn't bounce (not that it affects that much), but as a TD I put satin down unless I'm asked specifically for flat (happened once or twice in the last 20 years). I only use flat black on scenic elements, legs, cross-bracing, things I can't mask that I really don't want the light calling attention to, but I never use it on deck.

In my main show we use a custom chocolate brown flooring, but again, it's a satin porch&floor paint. Satin is easier to clean, usually only requires touch up between shows (as opposed to flat, which requires a whole paint job), and in that sense it's cheaper than flat by far.


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## peacefulone61

Does anyone Poly over there floors? We paint our stage floor for every show I like to use flat paint myself, The LD asked me constatly to use a High Gloss Poly and was wondering if anyone else dose this?


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## variable

peacefulone61 said:


> Does anyone Poly over there floors? We paint our stage floor for every show I like to use flat paint myself, The LD asked me constatly to use a High Gloss Poly and was wondering if anyone else dose this?



As an LD I would personally flip out if I saw someone had painted the stage high gloss. I mean, I can see applications where it might be nice, but high gloss would catch all the light, cast reflections, and be distracting as all heck for the audience if they are at all raked.


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## BillConnerFASTC

I've found glossy black often appears blacker than flat black. 

Glossy wood however sucks for most stages events.


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## Van

I can't remember if I posted it in this this thread or not but I discovered a fantastic product for floor a few years ago. Safety Satin by Coast wide Labs. It's available at many Janitorial supply places. If you have a thrust or Round stage or you just have a lot of painted floor treatments this stuff is essential, in my book. It is an industrial floor coating used in Hospitals and commercial buildings it supplies a tough, satin finish which can easily be applied over scenic painting and can be removed with a quick ammonia and water mopping or spot removed with Windex and a mop. 


peacefulone61 said:


> Does anyone Poly over there floors? We paint our stage floor for every show I like to use flat paint myself, The LD asked me constatly to use a High Gloss Poly and was wondering if anyone else dose this?



Instead of Poly, try "Future" floor polish. Ultra High shine, stupid easy re-coating, extremely cheap. 
An LD wanting a shiny floor?


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## garyvp

Actually, our floor is white oak and when covered with masonite or platforms it is painted to suit the set.


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## peacefulone61

Van said:


> An LD wanting a shiny floor?



I do not understand it either but it is requested even if I just black out the floor


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## JonCarter

When I worked in outdoor theatre we used a grey-green (faded grass) oil-base porch & deck enamel which was unfortunately only available in gloss. Sometimes the floor was painted over as needed for a particular show. In hi school, the @#$% floors were oak strip, varnished (@#$%) and the front office had a fit if you ran a stage screw into them. Real pain in the you-know-what for reflections! In jr hi they were unpainted oak strip (bare wood.) Ditto college and another community theatre I worked in. 

Nobody seems to look at a stage floor as if it is a factory floor where you build things (shows.) Do what you need to it for the thing you're building on it now and change it next time.


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## BillConnerFASTC

JonCarter said:


> When I worked in outdoor theatre we used a grey-green (faded grass) oil-base porch & deck enamel which was unfortunately only available in gloss. Sometimes the floor was painted over as needed for a particular show. In hi school, the @#$% floors were oak strip, varnished (@#$%) and the front office had a fit if you ran a stage screw into them. Real pain in the you-know-what for reflections! In jr hi they were unpainted oak strip (bare wood.) Ditto college and another community theatre I worked in.
> 
> Nobody seems to look at a stage floor as if it is a factory floor where you build things (shows.) Do what you need to it for the thing you're building on it now and change it next time.


I tell people it's a workbench that people dance on en pointe.


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## Skervald

I toyed with the idea of starting a new thread but as there are already so many on this topic, I thought I'd resurrect this one instead. Here's the situation. Brand new facility with a Plyron deck. It was painted with PPG Break-Through in wrought iron (satin). I have no idea how many coats or what prep was or was not done. One weekend into the first production and the floor is looking a bit rough. My main concern is that some spike tape that was down for 3 or 4 days needed to be moved and it pulled up the paint completely. I tested several other areas and got mixed results. Some tape came up clean while others took paint up. Any ideas? Would another coat or two help or might there be a problem with the original coat bonding to the floor? I'm going to go to the contractor about this but I thought a little feedback from this group might help me out.


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## BillConnerFASTC

The raw plyron does need to be pretty clean. We specify vac and damp mop. I had more trouble with this when using Rosco TP than I have with the PPG Breakthrough. There is a tremendous amount of fine dust on the raw plyron, and more after sawing it to fit around perimeter of room.

Since some paint peeled and some did not, I'm going to suggest - hope - that some light sanding and recoating the spots it pulled up will be sufficient. I don't really know though. One whole floor was originally coated with Rosco TP, shortly after and before we learned it was reformulated, was lightly sanded and recoated with PPG Breakthorugh and it seemed to solve the problem.

Let us know what is done and how it worked.


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## Skervald

Thanks, @BillConnerFASTC. It's going to be quite a while before I can do it but I'm going to try the light sand and re-coat method on those spots. I will report back on how it works.


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## Van

Skervald said:


> Thanks, @BillConnerFASTC. It's going to be quite a while before I can do it but I'm going to try the light sand and re-coat method on those spots. I will report back on how it works.


FYI I just looked up Plyrons recommendation and they state that you MUST use a Latex primer prior to painting. So; Sand, prime, then paint.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Van said:


> FYI I just looked up Plyrons recommendation and they state that you MUST use a Latex primer prior to painting. So; Sand, prime, then paint.


Well, it is coated in Rosco Tough Prime. That might be a primer.

And the Breakthorugh data says (bolding is mine): 
INTERIOR WOOD: Unpainted wood or wood in poor
condition should be sanded smooth, wiped clean, and then
primed. Any knots or resinous areas must be primed before
painting. *For non-bleeding or previously painted wood, no
primer is required.* Use Dulux Gripper 60000 for proper
adhesion on unpainted wood.

The primer is much about blocking stains and bleedthrough today, and much less about adhesion. The 100% acrylics - like TP and BT - are pretty good at self-priming. I think Plyron also doesn't want alkyd base coatinsg without a latex or acrylic primer.


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## EdSavoie

My answer to this is "wax" so I guess I'll put in other...


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## ScenicKatie

I am looking to paint our auditorium floor. It is a hardwood floor that is very old and has many imperfections. We have used a variety of different paints but have not landed on one that sticks well to the floor and does not get torn up during the musical and dance rentals. Has anyone had luck with a specific paint that will last through our rental season?


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## derekleffew

Mod. Note: Above post moved here from another location.


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## josh88

Question for everybody since I haven't seen this come up before. We're replacing our deck this summer and will be laying all new tempered hardboard. I'd like to use tough prime on it, but our TD will likely just end up having us use the same interior black we always use. That made me start wondering if anybody has ever tried using a bonding primer as the first layer on a new deck and it has had any noticeable impact on the durability or adhesion of paint on a new surface.


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## gafftapegreenia

When I did outdoor theatre, we’d prime everything in Killz. The adherence to the wood was great but getting other paint to adhere to the Killz was tough.


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## dbaxter

Just did new hardboard this summer and learned a lesson. We sealed the seams with concrete waterproofing liquid, but not the center surfaces. Gave it a base coat of our normal paint and then blue taped for the show design. Painted the design, and pulled the tape. Guess what? Where we sealed, the paint stayed. Where not, it pulled up down to the hardboard. At this point we're looking into recovery techniques. Thinking a coat of polyurethane. Grumble, grumble.


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## variable

josh88 said:


> Question for everybody since I haven't seen this come up before. We're replacing our deck this summer and will be laying all new tempered hardboard. I'd like to use tough prime on it, but our TD will likely just end up having us use the same interior black we always use. That made me start wondering if anybody has ever tried using a bonding primer as the first layer on a new deck and it has had any noticeable impact on the durability or adhesion of paint on a new surface.


 
Yeah, we used Zissner 123, just had them tint it at the paint store. The tint was a light version of the actual stage coat, but it worked really well with Porch and Floor paint. Only touch ups I've had to do are where the hardboard gets chipped.


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