# Tie Line



## PeytonJr (May 12, 2009)

Its obvoiusly useful for a plethora of things, but does anybody know the load rating for a typical piece of tie line? 
I'm NOT going to use it for anything stupid (flying people, anything else); I'm just curious.


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## themuzicman (May 12, 2009)

last time I checked, 1/8" tie line is good for about 50lbs. SWL.


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## derekleffew (May 12, 2009)

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/scenery/7832-strength-tieline.html. What's the speed of a typical vehicle? Tricycle or Ferrari?


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## PeytonJr (May 12, 2009)

themuzicman said:


> last time I checked, 1/8" tie line is good for about 50lbs. SWL.



yeah, i was talking about 1/8"


"Strength of tieline?. What's the speed of a typical vehicle? Tricycle or Ferrari?" (derekleffew)
Facepalm for not finding that.


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## porkchop (May 12, 2009)

I would say that pretty much everything used as tie line would be unrated and therefore rated for 0 lbs. Personally I would expect an undamaged piece of 1/8" braided tie line to easily hold up 25 lbs and wouldn't really test it past that. That being said I wouldn't be surprised to see one piece hold up 50 lbs or more, but that just seems like pushing it given that some theatres reuse tie line constantly for years on end and that much wear and tear isn't worth testing.


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## gafftaper (May 12, 2009)

I ranted quite a bit about unsafe use of tie line in the other thread linked above. 

Short version: 
If you find yourself asking, "I wonder if tie line is strong enough to hold this". DON'T DO IT!


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## willbb123 (May 12, 2009)

We recently had a spool of tie line donated to our theater. When he dropped it off he said that it could hold 300lbs. I wish he hadn't said this.  Even with knowing that, I am only going to allow it to be used to tie coiled cables and tying cable to a batten.


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## PeytonJr (May 12, 2009)

willbb123 said:


> ...used to tie coiled cables and tying cable to a batten.


same, although we also use it for tying drops to battens which, according to the wiki, is common practice. (smite me if i'm wrong) 
I find that interesting because people don't trust it for hanging most everything, but drops with heavy weights in the bottom are exempt?


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## willbb123 (May 12, 2009)

PeytonJr said:


> same, although we also use it for tying drops to battens which, according to the wiki, is common practice. (smite me if i'm wrong)
> I find that interesting because people don't trust it for hanging most everything, but drops with heavy weights in the bottom are exempt?



Oh yea, tying drops also. Most of the drops we rent come with tie line already attached, so I didn't even think about it.

I'm not a rigger, but I would think that since there are so many points connecting the drop to the batten, the load is spit up between all the pieces of tie line.


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## cprted (May 12, 2009)

PeytonJr said:


> same, although we also use it for tying drops to battens which, according to the wiki, is common practice. (smite me if i'm wrong)
> I find that interesting because people don't trust it for hanging most everything, but drops with heavy weights in the bottom are exempt?


When I use ties on drops, I'm only doing that on canvass drops that weigh less than 100lbs and there are usually about 50-60 ties attaching it to the batten.


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## porkchop (May 13, 2009)

> When I use ties on drops, I'm only doing that on canvass drops that weigh less than 100lbs and there are usually about 50-60 ties attaching it to the batten.



I would doubt that any useful drop is that light, especially if you are getting 50+ ties onto it. That being said even if you have a relatively heavy drop (say 1000 lbs) if you can get 40 ties on it you are still only supporting 25 lbs per tie. Tie line is commonly used to attach drops to battens, but commonly it is doubled or tripled up so that the material lays flat (probably the most common concern) and also so the drop is held up by way more support than actually required. Certified steel for the weight would be hard to place and relatively expensive, tie line every foot is cheap and more than likely to hold the load. It's a matter of experience versus rating it seems. I will still maintain that tie line is unrated that doesnt mean that it isn't commonly used to keep things in place over head


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## cprted (May 13, 2009)

porkchop said:


> I would doubt that any useful drop is that light,


 How so? Canvass really isn't that heavy. A show about a month ago brought in three 20x40 canvass drops, they only weighed 80 lbs each.


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## porkchop (May 13, 2009)

> When I use ties on drops, I'm only doing that on canvass drops that weigh less than 100lbs and there are usually about 50-60 ties attaching it to the batten.



I would doubt that any useful drop is that light, especially if you are getting 50+ ties onto it. That being said even if you have a relatively heavy drop (say 1000 lbs) if you can get 40 ties on it you are still only supporting 25 lbs per tie. Tie line is commonly used to attach drops to battens, but commonly it is doubled or tripled up so that the material lays flat (probably the most common concern) and also so the drop is held up by way more support than actually required. Certified steel for the weight would be hard to place and relatively expensive, tie line every foot is cheap and more than likely to hold the load. It's a matter of experience versus rating it seems. I will still maintain that tie line is unrated that doesn't mean that it isn't commonly used to keep things in place over head


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## zac850 (May 13, 2009)

Tie line is good for 100 lbs. Put a knot in it, now its good for 50 lbs (depending on the knot of course).

Of course, its not permitted for overhead rigging. Clearly soft goods are not overhead rigging?


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## cactd (May 13, 2009)

My roll of Samson No. 4 (1/8") black tie cord states breaking strength at 100 lbs. and working strength at 15 lbs., and says don't exceed the recommended working load.


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## sshanks (Mar 22, 2010)

1-The second you fly out your soft goods, to say mop the floor or because of a scene shift, they become "overhead lifting." Have no illusions, we use tie-line for overhead-lifting rigs all the time.

2-I don't know what kind of crazy drops you people fly, but 1000lbs of canvas could rig a 19th Century Schooner. a 30'x60' drop with only one paint job on it will weigh between 75-150lbs depending on what weight of canvas you use and how many layers of paint are involved. The pipe or chain in the bottom, on the other hand, can add another 50-200lbs depending on what size you use. Usually when I load in a tour I pre-weight a drop with 200lbs on the arbor and adjust from there (unless the road-guy knows the exact weight).

3-Everything has a rating, it's just whether or not you know what that rating is. Many brands of tie-line come with the load rating on the spool (mine says 80#). My recommendation is to test your brand (rig it as used and add stage bricks to the bottom of your rig, carefully, until things go pop) and then assume that your working load is 20-25% of breaking strength for off-the-spool-new line and 10% for line of unknown age. If you have a local Physics Dept., often they have rigs for testing such things, which is fun for the whole family.


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