# Snow?



## jwl868

Can anyone tell me some resources for making falling snow? Our dance school does an annual production of the Nutcracker, and for years, we’ve been trying to come up with ideas to make it snow (during, well, Waltz of the Snowflakes). I came across one diagram of a “snowbag” and references to non-flammable snow (?). The venue has very limited fly-space and the width is about 55 feet. I need a “snow” that can be broomed away during intermission. The “snow machine(s)” would also have to be something that could be assembled off-site, then brought to the venue and quickly attached to a pipe. (I’m still working on the detail of whether is snow upstage of or downstage of the dancers, but that’s a detail right now.)

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Joe


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## hollinj

Ok, heres how weve done it in the past, We take a piece of muslin hung on two battens. One side has holes cut in it. I forget what we used as snow but we fly it out and keep the side with the holes above the other side when its time to snow we lower the side with holes and shake it up and down and presto. Snow...


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## jorno67

To add to what hollinj said - if you want it look as if the snow is falling on the entire stage, put the bag as far down stage as possible. The further up stage, the more distant the snow will apear.


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## SuperCow

If you don't want top have such a big set-up, you could obtain an industrial shop fan (they're about the size of a car tire) and set it on high, and just scatter the fake snow in front of it, and it will blow on stage. Obviously, it's a little harder to control the area the snow hits with this one.


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## ship

You might also get by with cutting a slit in a say 4" or 6" set of sections in PVC tubing so you can re-load, than some holes of unknown but perhaps 3/4" size in the bottom of the tube at say 9:00 if the feed area is at 12:00. (Size of the hole is a question, start with 3/8" at say 6" centers and work your way up in size after that dependant upon the necessity for rate verses duration. A second tube of this will add volume and add to the fill as opposed to a single tube.) This allows you to fill the tube say ½ way and all it takes is rotating the tube by way of a attached shiv and rope to actuate the snow falling. This rotation of a attached together length of tubing also allows you to keep the snow falling at a rate you determine thought the entire show or scene. 

Should you get more complex, you can cover the feed slot and very the holes into something that will allow for a storm verses a small amount of snowfall.

A fan within the tube might be interesting, otherwise a fan around the area of the snow projection might be of use in spreading it around.

As for what product to use, while you might be able to get some metallic confetti that will simulate the snow, Rosco snow itself should be the best solution. Vacuum it up an re- use it with care given a really clean stage in doing so. Also no matter if confetti or snow, pre-spray the stage down with static guard and the snow won’t stick as badly to everything in and out of sight.

Further observations on this above system. Don’t make the feed slots effect the structural integrity of the tube. In other words, it can’t be a “C” section, it must have parts of it in being round sufficient to support the tube’s structure. More long windows for feeding than any form of channeling. Above this, if you cant, use adhesive to permanently adhere one section to another by way of coupler, you must be using screws to keep tubes together. Also, given a typical span, some wire rope run between hinge points will no doubt be needed to be placed withing the wire rope to make a safety cable for the tube.


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## jwl868

Thanks for the input.

I had seen that muslin idea before. The problems that I have with that are limited fly space and limited number of battens. Also, my time at the venue is so limited, I wouldn't be able to test it ahead of time to work the bugs out.

ship: I was thinking about an approach like that. Figuring out a good way to make it move has been a problem. I also hadn't thought about the snow getting all over everything. (By the way, what's a shiv?)

Thanks

Joe


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## Calc

DON'T, and I repeat, *DON'T use little styrofoam pellets as snow*.

My freshman year of high school, the football team was doing a fund raiser around christmas time. They thought it would be a great idea to drop the little pellets (the stuff that comes in sheets, but it breaks into pellets real easy) from the grid. They hauled a couple of garbage bags full of the stuff up to the grid (against our knowledge) and began to try and sprinkle it during the assembly. The sprinkling didn't go well, and it pretty much all fell at once, in two large clumps.

Less than half of it reached the ground. The rest stuck to the curtains, the lights, empty pipes, the walls, pretty much whatever was on the way down.

To this day low, loud sounds on the stage cause it to snow a little.


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## ship

A shiv is a pulley, acgually it's a moble pulley and frame for it assembly.

Static Guard works wonders with them little foam pellets.


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## techismylife

several companies also make snow machines. But if you take this route, beware, because some have reputations for being very very noisy. LeMaitre makes a Silent Storm DMX machine that is around $710 USD. i have never used this one, so you'd need to look into how much area it can cover. Lastly, the snow machines i have used leave a sticky residue on the floor depending on how much falls, which might not be good for dancers. The convient thing is that you don't have to go sweep up pieces of paper or anything.
--Lincoln


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## Radman

I think the most do-able options are either a snow machine, or a snow cradle.

A snow cradle is the PVC thing ship talked about. There are small details in the construction that have to be seen to, however, to make it a sucessful cradle.


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## jwl868

Thanks for all the help, but I have to put this effect on hold. We had a last minute change in venue, and the new venue has no fly space or cable system of any sort, and the wing space is very limited. 

With any luck, I might be able to try the snow next year.



Joe


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## ship

Had a thought while the shop's "Confetti Storms" were being prepped for a show. (You know a plastic trash bag simply ain't going to hold the confetti inside. Easiest just to blow them off in a confined space and sweep up afterwards. Way too much mess to be fun to prep for a show. Much less, every time they are used, the confetti type is changed. Something like 12 different styles of confetti in stock in addition to confetti with name brands on it and never the same stuff blown out - pain in the rear to prep the things. Much to be avoided in digging out the sometimes fog soaked confetti and adding the new.) 

Be it cofetti cannon (one time use) or confetti storm, you could simply blow out the snow especially if in the case of the storm when on a dimmer. Motors are not good for dimmers but in this case it should be a low enough power. The storm uses if I remember right a Black and Decker leaf blower engine inside of a box that stores far too much confetti to ever be used. It's output tube is able to accept a 4" dryer hose or similar fittings for distribution of the outlets. There is more than enough power to remotely locate such things.

Biggest problem with a storm which would certainly blow out snow is that it's very loud and second without either electronic circuit board static protection or more simply static guard, the snow will stick to everything. This beyond the concept of the snow when forced out going everywhere. Direct the snow well thus the other above ideas on sprinkled snow bags or tubes in making life easier. Given a extension tube to a remotely located unit this volume that goes everywhere on the confetti storm should be reduced some however sufficient for stage usage.


On snow machines:
Our shop also has some older models of CITC snow machines. Pain in the rear. Need a storage tub under them to catch the leaks from the machine in addition to it being vacuum cleaner loud. The things require new bubble bags, airraters and hoses just about every time they are used - no matter if you clean them or not short of a huge amount of PM directly after the production and even than the snow fluid is only good for about a year before it goes bad. Very expensive system to use. In renting such units expect that some snow machines will have a blizzard of snow out of them, others will trickle it out unless the prep crew spent a lot of effort in changing out for new parts. Even than you have to adjust the air flow which is not really that well designed to do in this unit.

Hopefully their more improved "quiet" snow machines are more user friendly because it's a major chore to prep these units I as the only one qualified have to. Every year it's a question of throwing out the old stuff and buying new verses labor and parts. Avoid the older model of this fixture. Other brands and the new quiet CITC snow machines no doubt are much better but if who you rent the stuff from has the old snow machines, avoid them. 

Constantly replacing pump blowers for them also in addition to the soap blown out of them being first slippery on the stage, than sticky as if a can of coke exploded on stage - same sticky. Such snow machines in this no matter the brand are a factor. It's not snow, it's more minute bubbles from a bubble machine. Once the bag/sock drys up say on a month long production, you get less volume with the design I am familior with. Given old snow fluid etc. you are just as stuck.

Hopefully snow machines in general have been improved, but given my experience with them, I would go with the fake snow flakes and avoid the snow machines.

Vaccume up the flakes after the show. Somehow screen them to seperate the dirt and dust from the flake than re-use them or buy lots of new, but go with the flakes. As I remember my Rosco Samples, there is two types of flakes available.


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## jonhirsh

The answer is really simple. To creat a falling snow effect you have two options that are really viable. They are extremly expensive and are both very messy. The first You can Build or Rent a snow trough and what it is is a long box witha slat down the length of it, it has a motar which rotates it as it rotates the snow falls out of the slat. you have to fill it with as you said non flamable snow which is called poly snow it is very expensive. in canada where i live we bought 200 pounds of it for a production and that cost about $700.00. and it took weeks to get rid of it all i still find some in my pockets 4 months latter. Your second option is a snow machine as mentiond they are extremly noisy but if you have fly space thats not an issue but you dont so we will look at other options if you have wing space you can place it at either side of the stage on a lader they have built in fans so you can blow it on stage this is a fairly effective effect. as mentiond before the do leave a residue but it is not sticky it is extremly slipery so youu must be carfull not to use to much. both options suck but if you want the effect you only have these choices really. i mean there are others but these are the best but do not think you will sweap it up at intermission unless you are using a extreamly small amount and its falling on to a giant blue tarp.

Jon Hirsh


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## ship

Earlier yesterday I was reading into snow, haze, bubble and fog fluid. CITC it would seem at least has about six different formulas for snow fluid that allow the snow to do anything from shoot up to and beyond 100' to vaporize before it hits the stage deck.

There are other snow machines recently listed on stagecraft that are supposed to be fairly silent if not even dripless maning that you don't need the plastic tub below them to catch drips.

Given some variation in the snow effect by all manufacturers of the more modern gear, it should be possible to dial in the snow machine according to either snow type in projection distance or noise and control issues.


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## zac850

I would say go with the snow machines. Go and rent a new one, get the fluid that doesn't stick to the stage (i've seen it advertised around places).

I would say get 2, put them in the grid right at the proscenium arch SL and SR. 

I pulled down a touring show at a regional theater near me (Mooseltoe, some kids show...) and that is what they used. I didn't see the show, but after pulling them down they were put into boxes and put into a road case, so clearly they weren't worried about bad drips. It was a DMX thing, so they just ran a DMX cable across, and could control the snow machines. 

Depending on your run, it shouldn't cost that much to rent for a week or two, you can test them easily before you go into the venue by just hooking up a DMX board to it, and then all you have to do is get in the genie lift, c-clamp it on, run some power from a random outlet and run it a DMX cable. Depending on where the dimmers are in that theater, it shouldn't be to hard.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Peter

Later in the year my AP Chem teacher keeps telling us he is going to make it snow purple iodine (at least i think that is the chemical he said) I dont know how exactly he is going to do it, or if something could be chemically tweaked to make it white, I'll try to remember to tell you guys about it when he actually does it. (hopefully he's not exadgerating again!  )


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## SketchyCroftPpl

For us to get it to snow one year we took a 2x4 and made a section of it as long as the pipe, we then took gutter material and screwed it onto the 2x4. We then took that whole setup (oh there was also a plank at the end that made the whole thing look like a very large "I". We took loops of rope and attatched it to one of the flies and put it up just out of site. We before of course had filled it with "snow" (we used white confetti). Then attatched to the two end "I" pieces we attatched longer ropes that went down to the wings. Then when we wanted it to snow we would tug on the ropes which would start to turn the thing over and it would come down across the whole length of it with little gaps and it was a really good effect. 

~Nick


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## Foxinabox10

I'm looking for snow for A Christmas Carol. We're going to rent probably two machines, so that's not the problem. What size flakes should I buy to coat the sets and the lobby in? I can get 1/2", 1/4" or 1/8"-1/16".


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## PcPVulture

> We're going to rent probably two machines



If you are going to rent check this site out and let me know what you think. 
http://www.theatrefx.com/funfacts75.html

Depending on the machine you rent the flake size may be adjustable.


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## propmonkey

remember to think about clean up


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## Foxinabox10

For the snow size, I'm talking about fake dry snow that is used for accenting the sets and lobby, in addition to the snow machines. As for the clean up, I'm looking at the machines where the snow evaporates when it hits the ground.


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## ship

Foxinabox10 said:


> As for the clean up, I'm looking at the machines where the snow evaporates when it hits the ground.



And good luck to that effect. Hopefully the more modern evaporating effect evaporates without a sticky residue.


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## What Rigger?

*Re: Snow*

The LeMaitre's are absolutely [email protected]$$! If you can, get some!


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## jonhirsh

*Re: Snow*


What Rigger? said:


> The LeMaitre's are absolutely [email protected]$$! If you can, get some!



I own 4 of the True North Snow Machine units they are great by no means quiet, and leave an slipery residue on the stage but other then that there the best on the market in my opinion.

JH


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## DarSax

*Re: Snow*

I know the Kravis Center in Florida routinely "snows" on the audience during productions of The Nutcracker. The snow does not stain clothing, and (from what I remember) leaves just about no residue (if it did, they wouldn't have it erupt over the entire house). I'd look into that, if you can find any info on it.


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## SHARYNF

*Re: Snow*


Peter said:


> Later in the year my AP Chem teacher keeps telling us he is going to make it snow purple iodine (at least i think that is the chemical he said) I dont know how exactly he is going to do it, or if something could be chemically tweaked to make it white, I'll try to remember to tell you guys about it when he actually does it. (hopefully he's not exadgerating again!  )




That is totally different, it basically is a contact unstable explosive
it is a classic wow the class ap chem experiment

http://www.instructables.com/id/E5YK8KLTDKEQOEX3CK/?ALLSTEPS


Sharyn


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## CHScrew

*Re: Snow*

If it were me, I would NOT use a snow machine. They aren't quiet, they are messy, you have to mop up after every time you use it... 

Just Say No.


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## jonhirsh

*Re: Snow*

Your right they are not quiet. But your wrong about the messy part. Older machines do leave an slippery residu, but newer ones do not. The liquid evaporates before it lands thus no mess. Belive me i know i own 4 units and use them all the time. 

JH


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## moderately_clueless

*Re: Snow*

We just took a cardboard tube about 6 inches wide, maybe more, drilled holes in it. we ran a dowel or pile through the tube and hooked that up to a batten. Then we put a 2x4 on the end, horizontal to the stage, which we fastened a rope to, so that by just pulling on the rope from offstage, the tube would rotate and therefore snow. We used some sort of plastic snow, not entirely sure where we got it. And make sure you have some way to keep the snow in the tube at the ends. But this method doesn't work for large-scale staging, just a smaller area. 

Pardon the vague description, I was only a freshman when we did this show. But it worked wonderfully.


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## BillESC

*Re: Snow*

Many of the Snow Machines use a soap based formula for the creation of "flakes" and many people find these "flakes" to be a throat irritant. I know I for one do.

Plastic snow is easy to use and can be distributed via 4" PVC drainage pipe and released via compressed air or even a shop vac. Hint: If you stage floor is clean the snow can be swept up and reused.


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## soundlight

*Re: Snow*

The plastic snow works really well. We used some for the end of a piece called "winter" for a dance concert, and we just swept the stage during the blackout after the piece.


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## pacman

*Re: Snow*

We rented an older LeMaitre snow machine last spring for the blizzard scene in "HONK." As has been mentioned, it was absolutely vacuum cleaner loud. At higher snow volumes, the "flakes" would clump together & leave a real residue mess on the stage, plus they took forever to dry up. Nevertheless, I think the machines still produce the most realistic effect. 

The newer snow machines are much better, from what I can tell. I've seen several at LDI that are much quieter, have no residue (with the proper manufacturer-specified fluid) & the effect looks like the real thing. Even the old LeMaitre we rented looked great at lower snow volumes. Add a fan under it to help lift & dry the flakes. If you are trying to cover a large area, bite the bullet & rent two or more machines, rather than trying to cover it all with one.


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## lightbyfire

*Re: Snow*

Reviving this,


We did a production recently where we needed a snowfall in a small area of stage, pretty localized. Our solution was to take a 5 gallon paint bucket and stick a cheap disco ball rotator in the bottom and attach a heavy wire paddle to the rotating axle. then put the motor on a dimmer (only works with cheap rotators) then we just drilled about 20 3/4" holes around the side of the bucket, it was very effective so long as you made sure the holes were sanded down and you used 1/16" snow. This effect also worked with petals. 

Also a complication we ran into is that the trickle flow from the dimmers was enough to get the motor to move and an occasional couple flakes would fall at innapropriate times.


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## atrom81

I need to find a fake paper or plastic snow to use for the nutcracker. Any suggestions would be great, and where to get it from.


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## cdub260

Have you looked at potato flakes? I don't know how well this will work, but you should think about taking a trip to your local grocery store and picking up a box. Then you can test it out and see how it works before you decide whether this is the way to go.


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## lieperjp

I've never tried this, but the year before my freshman year at high school, they spent a few days shredding paper, paper, and more paper. Then they built huge hoppers out of cardboard, the "snow" would fall onto a tray-type thing a few inches below the hopper, then a box fan would blow it out. 

This was for a "snowcoming" dance (winter version of homecoming,) not a theatre production. Also, they were sweeping up little bits of paper all over the school for six months after the dance. consonant


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## derekleffew

See the newly created Glossary entry: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/glossarys/9120-snow-cradle.html

Machines, such as this, or this, using liquid soap tend to produce more realistic snow, but if you're set on the traditional snow cradle, shredded polyethylene flakes can be had from Norcosto, Southern Importers, or just about any theatrical dealer, for about $5 per pound. Depending on the width of the cradle, it's unlikely you'll be dropping more than one pound per performance. 

*DO NOT re-use the snow!*
​The chances of contamination with foreign matter, and the difficulty in filtering make it just not worth the risk. Dropping a screw, nail, washer, or wood splinter into seven year-old Clara's eye WILL NOT make for good press for _The Nutcracker _or your venue.

I would avoid potato flakes, as well as any edible substance, as they tend to attact pests. You'll have enough aunts at _The Nutracker_ already; no need to invite more. Also avoid any styrofoam product. The static-cling makes pick-up and disposal difficult.


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## bdkdesigns

derekleffew said:


> but if you're set on the traditional snow cradle, shredded polyethylene flakes can be had from Norcosto, Southern Importers, or just about any theatrical dealer, for about $5 per pound. Depending on the width of the cradle, it's unlikely you'll be dropping more than one pound per performance.



As Derek mentioned, the polyethylene flakes are a good alternative for the snow machine. Especially depending on what is happening while the snow is falling. I had a music director insist on using a snow machine while the singers go around the stage in roller blades. People were falling everywhere because like I had warned the director, it is soap based and can get slippery and a wet mop of the stage afterwards is necessary. Also make sure the machine is not pointed towards soft goods. It is a pain to clean out.

But also something to keep in mind, no matter what type of snow effect you use, DO NOT DROP IT ABOVE YOUR INSTRUMENTS! I'm still scraping off red spray painted polyethylene flakes that were dropped above some ParNELs before I got here.


derekleffew said:


> I would avoid potato flakes, as well as any edible substance, as they tend to attact pests.



And pests tend to attract other pests! We have a small mouse problem that is coming back after being contained for several years. These mice have attracted a predator, and we had to chase a bat out of the building yesterday that started dive bombing our designer during focus yesterday!


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## jwl868

If you haven't used the Search function already, see this thread.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-f-x/1339-snow.html

Joe


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## Raktor

bdkdesigns said:


> We have a small mouse problem that is coming back after being contained for several years. These mice have attracted a predator, and we had to chase a bat out of the building yesterday that started dive bombing our designer during focus yesterday!



That sounds quite handy, if you could tame him...


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## atrom81

Thank you to everyone for you help. I think i have found the solution to the snow. The company i work for already has snow machines, they are homemade out of the blue 5 gal water cooler tanks, with a auger on a motor down the middle to cause the snow to fall. But since I'm new i needed to find a place to get snow for them. They don't use any of the chemicals, so there is no worries of falling.


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## Van

I Like Potato Flakes! 
You just have to be very attentive in your clean up process. The only real negative issue with Polyethylene snow is the slippage factor, and I hate the oap based snow machines. 
That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it.


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## dannyn

We actually did this at my theater once. It was during the middle of a scene, and the stage screw cleaned it up for the next scene in about 2 minutes, and we were set again. I should be at my theater tomorrow, I will take pictures.


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## TimMiller

We have snow machines that use a special fluid that is filtered thought a fine netting material. It falls like real snow, and then after about a minute it evaporates. I use the "DRY" mixture, it doesnt clump up on the floor into a foam mess, and it evaporates quickly. My machines are the Little Blizzard (quiet version, with the DMX interface). They are actually much quieter than the normal snow machine. They are not very expensive to rent, i know there are quite a few companies here in houston besides me who have them, but i think i am the only one with the DMX version which makes running from a console much easier than messing with relay packs, or running control cable down to where the stage manager can push a button. Also the flake size, and output can be controlled. It takes a little playing with to get it right, but not much (maybe 5-10 min)


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## dannyn

I did not get a chance to take a picture today, but I will get them the next opportunity I have.


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## derekleffew

Making its debut at LDI'08, the City Theatrical DMX Snow Machine™.

*DMX Snow Machine**™* 
We built these machines for the new Broadway production of "Billy Eliot." This 4' long rotating drum has smooth and quiet DMX control for a wide range of speeds to produce a variety of snow effects on your productions. Have a _Nutcracker_ or _Christmas Carol_ coming up? This machine is for you!



Watch City Theatrical's site for more information.


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## porkchop

On a show I was just helping out on we used 4 Le Maitre Silent Storm snow machines, they are of the soap based variety. I know they are probably not the cheapest variety but they do make a very nice snow effect that we control completely from the board through 2 channels of DMX (fan speed and flow control). One pair is on alone for something like a minute and then we start blowing all 4 for like another minute and a half to two minutes. The four of them cover full ice (roughly 70' x 120') pretty well. There are plenty of jumps in the rest of the show and the soapy residue doesn't seem to bother the skaters much, but zamboni drivers and the guys that take care of the ice tend to not like the amount of soap that we put down on the ice (we also have bubble machines to add to this). Just some info for you. For the dancers I've worked with you would have to find a dry mixture, but the cleanup time makes me cringe when I think about it.


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## TimMiller

I use an extra dry formula, and we had it dropping down onto a dance floor and did not have any problems.


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## elite1trek

dannyn said:


> It was during the middle of a scene, and the stage screw cleaned it up for the next scene in about 2 minutes... I will take pictures.



Holy Crap, Stage Screws clean the stage too. And I thought I had found all the uses for them. I want pictures of that! 

Now I can tell the stage crew that they are fired.


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## Van

dannyn said:


> We actually did this at my theater once. It was during the middle of a scene, and the stage screw cleaned it up for the next scene in about 2 minutes, and we were set again. I should be at my theater tomorrow, I will take pictures.


 
Please tell me that took place upstage behind a curtain, I can't imagine a 2 minute scene change.........


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## ruinexplorer

elite1trek said:


> Holy Crap, Stage Screws clean the stage too. And I thought I had found all the uses for them. I want pictures of that!
> 
> Now I can tell the stage crew that they are fired.



See, and I thought that's what modern dance was for.


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## jwl868

I’m tacking onto this thread because I’m trying to make it snow for Waltz of the Snowflakes in The Nutcracker, and I am struggling.

First my limitations: I am severely limited in what I can spend (the largest cost will be the snow itself). I only have one batten to work with, so I don’t think I can use a traditional snow cradle. Because of cost (and also because of limited access to the venue prior to the show), I can’t use a snow machine. All of this is volunteer/part time for me which limits when I can work on it.

Recognizing the limitations, I’m looking for a short duration and relatively short coverage/length. (The studio’s been doing Nutcracker for 20 or so years now, and the owner would like it to snow year….)

I’ve been through the suggestions on the this thread and an earlier thread, and I’ve been using materials that I have on hand to make a couple prototypes. Specifically, I used a 5-inch diameter x 4 feet long cardboard tube. (Heavy duty cardboard, like on a carpet roll.) 

I first tried drilling a line of ¾-inch diameter holes down the length, I suspended this horizontally from the ceiling with the holes oriented upward (2 o’clock) and attached a cord to a point beneath the holes. I ran the cord up around the back side of the tube and over a pulley so that when the cord is pulled, the tube pivots and the holes face downward. I can “rock” the tube back and forth this way. (And when I stop pulling, the holes face up to stop any flow.) But when I tried it, the snow binded and clogged the holes.

The second version had a series of 2-inch x 2-inch slots down the length, at a spacing of ¾-inch side-to-side. I used the same hanging arrangement described above. This worked better, but I don’t seem to have a lot of control – its either all or nothing.

A couple issues:

1. I’m still waiting to receive some “theatrical snow” from Norcosto (as suggested in Derek’s post). But the snow I am using appears to be the same type of flake. I’ll know in a few days. Maybe that’s half the battle. (I came across another type of fake snow at a craft store that was more fibrous and doesn’t flow at all.)

2. Maybe I’m missing a concept: When I read the descriptions of the snow cradle, I imagined the snow “overflowing” the slots, such as like cereal being poured from a box. That is, tip the box forward, and the cereal flows over the lip of the box. However, with the snow, the snow clings to itself and as the tube is tipped, instead of the top particles rolling off, the large sheet of particles slides off. Should I try the series of holes (though larger diameter) and then inverting the holes to a bottom position and shaking/rocking the tube? I’ve also thought of placing a long dowel in the tube the would roll back and forth like a sifter to break up the mass of the snow.


Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.

Joe


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## railwhale

You can do a snow cradle that has holes cut in the top 1/3 of the moving
side of the cradle.
The other side of the cradle is tied to the 1 batten with ties like a drop.
The moving side has a piece of 1 inch thin wall conduit running through the hem pocket with 3/8 inch rope pickups every 10 feet with pullies.

The snow drops out of the holes. We actually cut 2 foot long by 6 inch 
cut outs and sewed drop netting in.

We use paper snow, (Flame retardent treated by manufacturer).

Traditional Japanese theater (Kabuke) uses a lot of snow.


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## kiwitechgirl

A snow bag will work with only one batten - I did this a few years ago for a production of _The Wizard of Oz_. From memory we just used calico, got Wardrobe to sew a pocket in each side and ran conduit through the pockets. We cut holes in the pocket for pickups - so you could get to the conduit - and just used short chains and shackles to attach them to the batten - I can't go into any more detail than that due to CB's TOS about rigging! To operate the bag we just got the flyman to grab hold of the ends of the conduit and push and pull them in opposite directions and it worked like a charm - I think we had the slashes in the bag to about 2/3 of the way up it, and the whole thing was about a foot deep. In terms of the snow itself, I've had really good success with potato flakes - it falls beautifully and isn't too difficult to pick up although you do have to make sure you get it all cleared up before mopping the stage or else you end up with mashed potato!


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## mfhettig

We have a home made snow machine at my school. It required two battens. We took some fabric about 4 feet tall and the width of the stage and cut slits perpendicular to the battens and filled it with small 1cmx1cm square paper pieces. Attached one side to one batten and one side to the other then flew them up at the same time. When it's time to snow, we just raised one batten up and down and the slits allowed a steady stream of snow to fall and fan out across the stage. It worked really well.


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## masterelectrician2112

mfhettig said:


> We have a home made snow machine at my school. It required two battens. We took some fabric about 4 feet tall and the width of the stage and cut slits perpendicular to the battens and filled it with small 1cmx1cm square paper pieces. Attached one side to one batten and one side to the other then flew them up at the same time. When it's time to snow, we just raised one batten up and down and the slits allowed a steady stream of snow to fall and fan out across the stage. It worked really well.



So basically a homemade snow bag? Nice use of resources!


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## newdaypro

*Quiet snow machines?*

Is anyone aware of a snow machine for stage productions that is quieter than others. Our machines have been used when there is stage/music noise, but have a scene in an upcoming production that is extremely quiet.
Any suggestions or thoughts?
Thanks


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## kendal69

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


newdaypro said:


> Is anyone aware of a snow machine for stage productions that is quieter than others. Our machines have been used when there is stage/music noise, but have a scene in an upcoming production that is extremely quiet.
> Any suggestions or thoughts?
> Thanks


 
Depending on how long the fall is you can use a blower motor many feet away from the drop and use either dryer vent tube or other 4" -6" tube/PVC pipe and blow the snow. Control the gall by having the blower on a dimmer to adjust output. 

Old school is just to hand drop it if you can and there is a cat walk? 

Also you can sound proof anything with current technology, foam sound deadening etc. Build a wooden box around what you have use 4" -6" styrofoam and or egg carton foam. 

I boxed a VERY LOUD blower fan with this method and if you stood next to it you never heard it.


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## MPowers

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

Pardon if I'm a bit obtuse, but what kind of snow machines are you using now? A chemical machine that makes snow from a fluid, a rotating drum that drops plastic snow or....? Absolute quietest is a manual operated fabric snow cradle, next is a manual rotating drum/cage, next is a motor driven rotating drum/cage. Fluid based machines are the least quiet. I haven't used one in a couple of years so I'm not sure who is quietest in this category. 

least expensive, manual cradles and drums, most expensive, fluid base blower machines. Fluid base snow, nothing to sweep up. plastic or paper snow, can be re used many times. 

Is the snow on stage with dancers/actors, behind a window, downstage or upstage of all the talent? 

What I'm trying to say is, what does the snow need to "DO" ??? Answer that question and maybe the snow you're using now is the best/worst for the situation. Quiet isn't always the best/worst answer.


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## garyvp

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


MPowers said:


> Pardon if I'm a bit obtuse, but what kind of snow machines are you using now? A chemical machine that makes snow from a fluid, a rotating drum that drops plastic snow or....? Absolute quietest is a manual operated fabric snow cradle, next is a manual rotating drum/cage, next is a motor driven rotating drum/cage. Fluid based machines are the least quiet. I haven't used one in a couple of years so I'm not sure who is quietest in this category.
> 
> least expensive, manual cradles and drums, most expensive, fluid base blower machines. Fluid base snow, nothing to sweep up. plastic or paper snow, can be re used many times.
> 
> Is the snow on stage with dancers/actors, behind a window, downstage or upstage of all the talent?
> 
> What I'm trying to say is, what does the snow need to "DO" ??? Answer that question and maybe the snow you're using now is the best/worst for the situation. Quiet isn't always the best/worst answer.


 

In our community theater I make snow drums made from 8" cardboard tubes used for concrete footings (Home Depot or Lowes) mounted on a light frame and powered by inexpensive 3 rpm mirror ball motors. They make no sound at all. I have used them with commercial plastic snow (recommended on CB) and for petals (Enchanted April). I April, the final monologue requires total quiet and it was fabulous. You can control flow by the size of the holes (3/4" for snow, 1.75" for petals) and speed. Fans are used for blizzard effects.


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## SteveB

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

Are you asking is there something as good, yet quier then a Blizzard?


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## GBtimex

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

The snow machines that I have at my theatre are unique and might just work for your situation. 

They are custom made snow machines made of wood and one small motor.
They are set up like a troth (in other words a V shape) with a rod going through the entire length. The rod has tie wraps (zip ties) and the snow is placed at the top. As the rod spins it moves the snow around and causes it to fall. The motor is on a dimmer so it can be controlled for amount. 

3 big drawbacks to these guys are:

1. They can only snow in one area STRAIT DOWN. and the snow has to be recollected and placed back inside it after every use.

2. The snow we use is the solid state snow that tends to get everywhere and melts if it is close to the lights. Some careful planning can avoid this but I am still chiseling off snow from a production of Nutcracker we did 2 years ago. 

3. They are big and bulky (but not heavy). I could not use 2 linesets because of the size of these **** things and we spent a great deal of time with sight line issues. 

If you would like a pic please let me know and I will send you some.

All the best and I hope you find a good solution.

GBTimex


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## kevis45

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

What was the size of the stage or space these were used in?


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## GBtimex

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


kevis45 said:


> What was the size of the stage or space these were used in?


 

They were used on a stage that is 128' ft long (yes it's big) but we cut it down to an area of of 60ft and they snowed down into a 5 ft area. Most of it piled into the first 2 ft. 

Works great for the last dance in Act I of Nutcracker


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## ozbiz

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

Spray snow in can? Not the stuff for spraying on windows, but I know there is a UK product and also in Australia, that you spray and it is for a falling snow effect.
Very quiet ! Presume something like that would be in the USA?


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## sharpcarp

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

I am a big fan of manual snow bags (some people also call them snow cradles I believe) for a few reasons: 
They are
-quiet
-inexpensive to build
-reliable
-provide great production quality 
-no nasty fluid residue on EVERYTHING
The biggest drawbacks are that they only snow in a straight line unless you use fans and you have to sweep up the snow afterwards

Side note: A couple of years ago I switched from using plastic flakes to ones that are rice based and have been hugely happy with the result. The rice flakes don't melt on lights, don't develop the static cling and they're also water soluable (the few that you miss when sweeping will dissolve when you mop!).


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## eLx01

*How to drop rose petals on stage*

At the final tableau of the production I am currently ATDing it is supposed to "rain rose petals across the stage." The director is being amiable as to how this can happen: select points on stage, on four or five lines across the stage, or the original random snowstorm a la Nutcracker. I have looked into the LPI DMX controlled Snow Machine but it doesn't have any information about the size of the holes through which the petals would fall (this is our main concern) and the Rose Brand Snow & Confetti Machine's fall points are straight up too small (@ 3/8") for silk petals. If possible we want this effect run as automation, not person-controlled if that's possible. Are there any better option out there besides making our own? 

Thanks for your advice!

Best,
eL


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## JohnD

*Re: How to drop rose petals on stage*

Here are some ideas from threads in the special effects area:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-effects/27113-help-needed-leaf-drop-effect.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-effects/16926-how-make-rain-flowers.html#post197348


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## FAQ

*Re: How to drop rose petals on stage*

Snow machine. We used it for our production of White Christmas.


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## Theatergeek92

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


garyvp said:


> In our community theater I make snow drums made from 8" cardboard tubes used for concrete footings (Home Depot or Lowes) mounted on a light frame and powered by inexpensive 3 rpm mirror ball motors. They make no sound at all. I have used them with commercial plastic snow (recommended on CB) and for petals (Enchanted April). I April, the final monologue requires total quiet and it was fabulous. You can control flow by the size of the holes (3/4" for snow, 1.75" for petals) and speed. Fans are used for blizzard effects.



garyvp: Do you have some more detailed specs on that? I'd love to build some, but am unsure on how to get the disco ball motors mounted to the piping? Thanks I appreciate it greatly! Looking to make it snow for a winter choir concert and for our upcoming production of Forbidden Broadway!


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## shaferboy

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

At my high school. We have two close battens and mount a piece of canvas with slits in it between them. The snow(small plastic pieces) sits up in the canvas and when you move one of the battens the snow comes out through the slits.


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## derekleffew

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


shaferboy said:


> At my high school. We have two close battens and mount a piece of canvas with slits in it between them. The snow(small plastic pieces) sits up in the canvas and when you move one of the battens the snow comes out through the slits.


And now you know the proper term for it: snow cradle.
.


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## Morte615

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

Somewhat off topic but since we are talking about snow machines the people over at Global Special Effects have been great to work with recently. I work at an Amusement Park and we have 6 of their older (before they changed the name of the company) T1500 Snomasters machines, these are NOT quiet machines at all, and have had 3 of them go down this year. So far they have been prompt to assist and even offered to send replacement parts for the machines (lifetime warranty and they are standing behind it!)

So thought I would leave this bit of praise here for a company that has been assisting us this year!

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum posts.


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## tekgoddess

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


SteveB said:


> Are you asking is there something as good, yet quier then a Blizzard?


Good idea to proof read but dang if I can find spellcheck on Control Booth. Let's be gentle with others.
Just a passing thought.
tekgoddess


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## tekgoddess

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*

We did a Christmas pageant using the rice snow. The carpets in our chapel will never be the same and our operations guys are STILL bitching about it 5 years later.

Can anyone tell me which snow machines will work for a long time, quietly. We need quick evaporation and NO slippery stuff. We are premiering a ballet and will put the snow in rep. so will use for several years. Anyone own CITC Little Blizzard, 2008 Le Maitre Silent Storm or Antari S200 Silent Snow?


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## tekgoddess

Cool idea. Let me know if it works.


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## tekgoddess

*Re: Quiet snow machines?*


derekleffew said:


> And now you know the proper term for it: snow cradle.
> .


Thanks, I don't feel so old; snow cradle I know.


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