# Another pit cover collapse.



## gafftapegreenia

This time in Indiana. 
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national...eld-high-school-stage-collapse-301169211.html


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## Jay Ashworth

More:

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dozen-hurt-after-indiana-high-school-stage-collapse-n347446


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## DuckJordan

When will directors realize putting 20 teens on a temporary stage jumping at the same time is just a bad idea...


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## BillConnerFASTC

DuckJordan said:


> When will directors realize putting 20 teens on a temporary stage jumping at the same time is just a bad idea...



The pit cover should be designed for the same loads as on stage.

Third in 12 months, expect legislative activity since the theatre industry has failed to address this. We have all kinds of rigging safety activity and relatively few incidents - certainly not three in past year resulting in injuries and making national news - and no orchestra pit safety activity for either falls into the pit nor pit filler collapses.


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## BillConnerFASTC

DuckJordan said:


> When will directors realize putting 20 teens on a temporary stage jumping at the same time is just a bad idea...


Oh, temporary? By what definition? These are in place at most high schools for all but one or two weeks a year. Would an electrical cable in p!ace for that long be temporary? This is people doing things like building a pit filler who are not qualified and school administrators who let it happen.

I wonder how many pit are going to be permanently covered as a result of have pit fillers constructed so heavily that they might as well be permanent.


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## DuckJordan

The reason I say its temporary, is in all the pit fillers I've seen that have been installed in high schools they are rated either at or just below what the stage could handle and they were stupid heavy. Anything else is retrofitted by the TD for the space with little thought as to how much weight is actually going to be put on them.


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## de27192

Sadly it usually goes to the cheapest bidder to supply something which appears to do the job.

Theatre consultants, stage building experts... they are expensive. Some generic school theatre firm who sell chinese LED pars and IWBs on stud hangers will be able to knock something together out of plywood and 4x2 and for the most part, for many years, it will more than likely be fine. But they do not anticipate the complex loads associated with many people jumping up and down in different timings and how this does not present a simple load of _x - _kg.

More regulation can be disheartening to schools and amateurs because it makes things more expensive, where they were previously economising responsibly. However, it can only be a good thing if things like pit covers are taken more seriously. I advised a school in the UK who'd not used theirs for several years and had a slowly deteriorating steeldeck-type cover on it, that probably the best option was filling it with concrete. It sort of sucks because it's nice to have that facility there, but not at the expense of the risks it brings, if you're not able to afford a proper purpose built cover, or better still a lift.


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## BillConnerFASTC

DuckJordan said:


> The reason I say its temporary, is in all the pit fillers I've seen that have been installed in high schools they are rated either at or just below what the stage could handle and they were stupid heavy. Anything else is retrofitted by the TD for the space with little thought as to how much weight is actually going to be put on them.


Its so easy to design to basic stage load rating using relatively light weight platform products from StageRight, Wenger, SECOA, Stageing Concepts, and probably others. Expect more stupid heavy as a result. And expect more permanent as a result.


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## DuckJordan

That's all I ever see is stupid heavy solid monstrosities. If more people would talk to staging companies rather than the local carpenter contractor who builds houses...

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC

On a recent high school performing arts addition, most of the addition being a 700 seat auditorium and a stage, all in around $7M, the pit filler with tensioned wire grid was around $45,000. Seems like a bargain compared to a lot of things, like the elevator to the pit for ADA.

There is a point at which if you can't build it right and to be safe, don't build it.


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## de27192

Sorry.... pit with tension wire grid??


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## BillConnerFASTC

de27192 said:


> Theatre consultants, stage building experts... they are expensive.
> .


 I disagree. Many times I have seen my fee easily saved by the expertise and knowledge and experience I bring to the design. First, rather than a sole source design as a result of "free" consulting by a sales rep, just the true and fair competition of a good design probably alone saves our fee. Second, we know ways to not waste money on everything from the construction of catwalks and stage structure to right sizing rooms and eliminating waste space. Third, I'd like to think there is some value to a theatre that just works better, where people can see and hear well, where the faculty and staff time is not wasted shoving boxes around and doing other donkey work, and simply supporting the artists better. 

And when the pit filler doesn't collapse and no one ends up crippled for life for falling into the pit, isn't that worth a lot?


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## BillConnerFASTC

de27192 said:


> Sorry.... pit with tension wire grid??


I'll post a picture later - already here someplace - but tensioned wire grid about 7" below stage, filler sits on top, no fall hazard even for those installing or removing filler. Much better than nets that don't really protect the musicians in the pit.


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## de27192

BillConnerASTC said:


> I disagree. Many times I have seen my fee easily saved by the expertise and knowledge and experience I bring to the design. First, rather than a sole source design as a result of "free" consulting by a sales rep, just the true and fair competition of a good design probably alone saves our fee. Second, we know ways to not waste money on everything from the construction of catwalks and stage structure to right sizing rooms and eliminating waste space. Third, I'd like to think there is some value to a theatre that just works better, where people can see and hear well, where the faculty and staff time is not wasted shoving boxes around and doing other donkey work, and simply supporting the artists better.
> 
> And when the pit filler doesn't collapse and no one ends up crippled for life for falling into the pit, isn't that worth a lot?



Sorry you have not really grasped what I am trying to say.

Theatre Consultants *ARE* expensive in the sense that the number on the bottom of the first form the accountants have to sign is bigger than it would be if the pit cover was designed by a pupil's father who is a domestic carpenter. Or if it were designed by some local race-to-the-bottom sound and light provider. Or any of the other poor examples of theatrical installers who have blighted our theatres over time. There is a difference between _expensive _and _bad value for money. _I agree. It does usually work out cheaper by the end of a proper job to have employed a consultant. But accountants don't see the correct choice of materials, they don't see the cost of 18 young adults being mutilated at the bottom of the pit when the cover falls apart. Right now, all they know is that the pit needs some kind of platform on it and seriously we both know that there are bosses out there who would have it made out of tissue paper as long as they had the assurance the imminent disaster wouldn't come back on them.

Possibly one of the biggest challenges theatre consultants face, IME, is convincing clients of their necessity. Lets face it, every disco dave amateur lighting enthusiast running a small hire company is pretty convinced he is an installer as well and would happily take on designing an international opera house given the opportunity. As a result, it can be hard for a school to take on an independent consultant - at an additional rate - when all of the installation contractors quoting for the job, are explaining that they have 25 years experience designing school theatres and there is really no need for the school to be hiring anybody else, when they can include the consultancy in their installation/sales fee.

In the interests of safety, my view is that if authorities want to keep a better control on theatre environments, they should draw up a list of approved theatre consultants - both local and national - and when building any new theatre or undertaking major modifications on another, it should be compulsory to employ one. I am seeing brand new theatres with stupidly dangerous hazards installed from the offset. It is stupid, and it needs to be addressed. If consultants were enforced - and could be called to account for shoddy work - I think an improvement would be seen immediately.


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## de27192

BillConnerASTC said:


> I'll post a picture later - already here someplace - but tensioned wire grid about 7" below stage, filler sits on top, no fall hazard even for those installing or removing filler. Much better than nets that don't really protect the musicians in the pit.



And that makes complete sense now you have explained it.

A theatre which I designed a pit cover, I did not consider that and perhaps I should have. Instead I used 3m x 1m fabricated decks which sat in the pit gap on concrete ledges, with screw in eyebolts into the centre of each deck piece. This allows the crew to stand on the deck whilst they attach a slack chain, lift the piece with a motor in the roof on a purpose-installed unibeam track, whilst controlling it's direction from the stage edge and front row, rotate it through 90 degrees, and lower it down the pit, where it can then be rotated back to the correct direction, and becomes the floor of the pit in it's 'low' position. Does that make sense?

If you're wondering how you do the first few pieces when there is not a 3m wide gap in the cover... you start in the middle, and use the rolling track to stack the first 4 pieces on decks to the side of it, to create a gap big enough to start filling the pit. And yes, when the floor is in it's up position, there is a drop down from the pit doors to the concrete floor of the pit. This is solved by simple rostra steps. 

It might sound complicated but we spent a full day practicing it and it's pretty swift.


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## gafftaper

Wow I just heard this story on the Seattle News Radio, top of the hour national news update from CBS radio.


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## dvsDave

You'd think this school would have learned from the Anaheim incident.


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## Jay Ashworth

50/50 or worse no one there ever even heard about it.

People who network can't understand people who don't, but there's more of them than us.


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## MNicolai

These accidents are beginning to happen like clockwork. Worst part of my morning was finding that we have multiple threads here at CB now titled "Another Pit Cover..."


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## venuetech

looks to me like the lid was part of the original stage design, not somthing that was added later.


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## MNicolai

Looks to me like the hole is the part of the original design, but that doesn't mean the pit covers are.

Pit covers have a tendency to be one of the first value-engineered features, so theaters get built without covers but with a nice sized hole in the stage. Then a well-intentioned, misguided group of parents/students/faculty come in and home-build their own pit cover structure, for a fraction of the cost than than the cost of proper orchestra pit covers.

It's not that engineered pit covers are that expensive. Just that lumber is cheap, and parent labor is free.

I know of at least a half-dozen high schools in the area that have built their own covers. Trying to come up with a way to show them the error of their ways, but haven't come up with anything better than cold-calling a facility manager with some sort of sleazy ambulance-chaser sort of dialogue.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Well, I now know architect, theatre consultant, pit filler manufacturer, and stage equipment contractor - all generally highly regarded companies. Seems there was a sub-pit with a temporary filler so that a lift could be retrofitted. Not sure of any details but one suspects the GC built temporary filler.


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## BSchend

I'm sure some have heard about this by now.

http://www.wthr.com/story/28886818/...-collapse-at-westfield-high-school-auditorium

I'm guessing someone didn't account for the dynamic load. Either by the person who built the pit cover for this performance OR by the director who failed to inquire what the pre-built pit cover could handle.


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## kicknargel

Speculation:

It's weird the way is seems to fall in the video. It seems like the whole deck goes straight down all at once, staying more or less level. Which is not what you'd expect if, say a leg buckles and causes cascading failure. Guessing that the filler was platforming bridged between some sort of ledges DS and US. Certainly had a single point of failure.


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## Footer

kicknargel said:


> Speculation:
> 
> It's weird the way is seems to fall in the video. It seems like the whole deck goes straight down all at once, staying more or less level. Which is not what you'd expect if, say a leg buckles and causes cascading failure. Guessing that the filler was platforming bridged between some sort of ledges DS and US. Certainly had a single point of failure.



I suspect there was a piece of angle iron or something of that type acting as a hanger on the upstage side and that hanger let go. If you look at the picture you can see a hanger on the stage left side and the lack of one on the SR side. Many pits under 8' in depth are designed this way. Maybe that hanger was made of wood. Either way, that is what let go causing those decks to drop.


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## venuetech

The full width stairs plus the pit is what I find unique, the entire house has direct access to a 8' fall hazard when the lid is removed? Can that possibly be right? The lid must have been part of the original design.


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## JD

Article (as is the norm) doesn't give too much information. The picture above looks like the stage uses 2x12 headers (respectable) but I cannot make out any attachment points. Hard to say if the cover was built at the same time, by a contractor later, or by some student or volunteer crew. Three factors are needed to assure safety;
1) A good design that meets all code and is constructed well. 
2) The crew that removes it and installs it (if removable) actually follows the rules and instructions.
3) Damaged or failing parts are replaced and with the correct replacements (proper maintenance.)

This is becoming too common.


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## BillConnerFASTC

One more report - an interview with Nicole Gruszka (the student lead singer in the video) on WTHR (TV13) this morning who said “This year they actually built a new one (pit cover) to be stronger… and it looks like it wasn't stronger… in the end.” so maybe the architect , consultant, manufacturer, and contractor are off the hook if what they designed was scrapped. As far as support, I'm told the original bridges between concrete ledges up and down stage. Doubt if those failed.

Ironic if they had a good system and replaced it with an insufficient one.


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## robartsd

I see no sign of a concrete ledge on the upstage side side in the photo. @BillConnerASTC, did you find out when the temporary cover was installed? My first thought on reading your report above was that last year the lift was functional and in the raised position, this year they did the same show on the temporary cover. Perhaps they built a stronger cover because they recognized that the temporary was not strong enough, but they didn't make their replacement strong enough.

As one of my engineering professors liked to point out - catastrofic failure almost always occurs at connections. In this case it appears to be whatever the cover was resting on on the upstage side.


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## JohnD

The AP story on Yahoo has been updated and now includes this quote:
"J.T. Coopman, the executive director of the Indiana Association of Public School Superintendents, said he expected the accident to "jolt people into action" at schools statewide to review the safety of their stages.
"That would be the direction that I would be giving my maintenance staff: 'Do we have a structure like this? How often do we inspect it? Are we sure that it's absolutely safe before we use it?'" he said."
Of course, shouldn't the same thing have happened a year ago?
Also in the comments for this on Yahoo there was this from someone called "Toolman"
"TOOLMAN 8 hours ago
3
22
I worked for the sub-contractor of this school for over 10-years, And I took that pit apart and put it back together countless times, And I know for a fact it takes kids gloves to put it back together, And if it is assembled proper it is a very strong, It takes in my opinion four people about two hours to do it the right way, Each and every time I did this I always had second thoughts about it, And would double and sometimes triple check the system, I know that those top panels are very heavy. The brace system is like a puzzle and if you do not get it right it will not go back together right, After watching the video it gave me a very uneasy feeling about that orchestra pit, And made all my fears about it come to light, I sure hope and pray that those kids are ok. "
"Toolman" later describes the system (it seems the one they used to use?):
"
TOOLMAN 7 hours ago
0
3
Michael, It has a bracket system that ties together with interlocks as I call it, Some of the braces look like a pole they are 6 to 8 foot long with snap locks on the end that hook too the upright stands, And the uprights connect to the platforms/ flooring, And that levels out with the stage. "


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## BillConnerFASTC

Well, doesn't sound like the ledges I was told it was, but classic structure style support. Could still be the pit level "temporary" filler over machine pit. That would fit with video, that the manufactured system went down all together.

Yup. Lots if work inspecting pits at least in Indiana.


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## venuetech

Footer said:


> I suspect there was a piece of angle iron or something of that type acting as a hanger on the upstage side and that hanger let go. If you look at the picture you can see a hanger on the stage left side and the lack of one on the SR side.


what i see in the photo is that the facia of the stage proper is missing, we are looking at the unpainted concrete stage slab. Directly below the concrete on stage left is a piece of trim the trim is missing from the stage right side. you can see the deck and the sleepers on top of the stage slab. what i am not seeing is any serious damage to the concrete, so i am speculating that any attachment to pit lid only went as deep as the facia and did not anchor into the stage slab.


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## What Rigger?

This venue looks very familiar. I think I might have worked there in the last decade. But I also worked 2 or 3 times in the Servite H.S. venue as well.


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## de27192

JD said:


> Three factors are needed to assure safety;
> 1) A good design that meets all code and is constructed well.
> 2) The crew that removes it and installs it (if removable) actually follows the rules and instructions.
> 3) Damaged or failing parts are replaced and with the correct replacements (proper maintenance.)


_4. The end user pays attention to the weight limitations of the structure as advised by the installer, and ensures that their production weights do not exceed that; *and *that stage security is sufficient to ensure that the stage is not overloaded by the presence of unplanned additions._

I add this not to be pedantic but because everything has a point at which it will fail, no matter how good it is. Most portable stage decks are rated for 750kg/sqm... which should be ample since that is 8 large people occupying a 1 square metre area... very difficult generally. However, of course once they start jumping around, that quantity of people is reduced somewhat. I still see directors fail to properly establish stage loading limits when creating set and choreographing actors.

I once worked on a show involving a 1-ton truck which had 5 wheels underneath, in a square, in a "5 on a dice" kind of arrangement. You are probably looking at the centre wheel taking half a ton there, and it's spreading it onto a surface area of about 1 square inch. That is a huge point load onto wooden decks... but the production only advised on the total weight of the truck - not the wheel arrangement or the point loads involved. As it was, we had to re-enforce the steeldeck stage, through genuine concern that in it's standard arrangement you might see a wheel go through the stage top.

Likewise at Glastonbury Festival in the UK about 10 years ago, Iggy Pop managed to commandeer a huge stage invasion, hundreds of people, to dance on the stage. The security were totally overwhelmed, and a show stop had to be called to clear the stage once the song finished. It was one of those great rock n roll moments but in fairness it could have equally ended up as one of those great rock n roll disasters if the Stooges and 100+ punters had suddenly disappeared into a pile of timber and scaffolding. All credit to Serious Stages for a quality deck which did not falter, but it re-affirms my point that security need to be capable of preventing a stage invasion, because had it continued and several hundred people ended up dancing on it, who knows how different the end situation could have been.

The video for the incident in question shows a lot of extra people suddenly joining the performance and dancing on the pit cover. It is quite common sense to see that it was this additional loading which triggered the collapse which had not happened when there were just a few musicians on it. This is not to suggest those people were to blame - far from it - but clearly the point is that (A) the structure needs to be able to bear the load; but (B) The maximum safe working load (with a factor of 4 or 5 to 1) does need to be established as an actual figure, and does need to be communicated to show directors and crew to ensure that it is never overloaded. It's just one of life's great inconsistencies that people are always on their toes about the SWL of rigging points, but the SWL of the floor often seems to be considered as unlimited.


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## MNicolai




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## de27192

That's a good start, for sure.

But how many receiving houses have the bottle to see a huge company show come in with a large piece of set, and say no?

And how many companies, who didn't know this up front, would not want to see some compensation having built a huge piece of set, only to be told they couldn't use it?

Signs like this on the floor, on the bars, in the grid etc are great, but more importantly the information has to be clearly communicated to the company in advance of the show; the venue should inspect weights to ensure they're compliant with the limitations they have; and the venue management have to have the balls to turn round and refuse a company when their production loads are not compliant.


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## MNicolai

There are two layers of complication here. The first is a high school type of application where nobody is mindful of the limitations of the floor for a room they're in every day. As far as they're concerned, every inch of the stage is infinitely strong. What you're talking about is a larger issue of how to reconcile the needs of touring shows with your facility's limitations.

As for having the arrogance to stand firm, it's daunting how simple it is. If venue managers don't tell groups they can't do something, of course they'll keep pushing the limits with reckless disregard. So long as venue managers keep giving in to demands for things that should've been brought up months before load-in, touring groups will keep assuming their show can go on with minimal pushback.

It's like that F*** You, Pay Me talk by Mike Monteiro. So long as freelancers keep agreeing to work for next to nothing, clients will keep asking them to work for free or cheap.

You gotta tell someone when something is unacceptable, otherwise they won't know.


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## Jay Ashworth

Venue managers need to see the clip of this collapse. And subsequent interviews.


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## BillConnerFASTC

750 kilograms per square meter? I get 150 psf approx, above the design load for the stage. The failed platforms failed well below that. That's 4800 pounds. 10 people at 150 and double it for impact is only 3000.

For the very reasons cited, of most people having no understanding of this, just build the platforms to the same standard as the stage.

Lift trucks are the hard nut to crack on any floor. The concentrated loads under the fork end tires fully loaded are very large.


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## BSchend

venuetech said:


> The full width stairs plus the pit is what I find unique, the entire house has direct access to a 8' fall hazard when the lid is removed? Can that possibly be right? The lid must have been part of the original design.



This high school was built in the late 90's. A search for the school + auditorium comes up with plenty of pictures of similar venues ALL with steps pre-installed the complete length of the stage/pit front. I can only guess that the architects felt a high school auditorium orchestra pit, used for maybe 2-3 weeks out of a year and spends the rest of the time covered shouldn't be looked at as a constant fall hazard. Pictures of those venues all show pit covers that appear to be original design elements also.


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## Les

BSchend said:


> This high school was built in the late 90's. A search for the school + auditorium comes up with plenty of pictures of similar venues ALL with steps pre-installed the complete length of the stage/pit front. I can only guess that the architects felt a high school auditorium orchestra pit, used for maybe 2-3 weeks out of a year and spends the rest of the time covered shouldn't be looked at as a constant fall hazard. Pictures of those venues all show pit covers that appear to be original design elements also.



I found this interesting as well. Best of my knowledge, these kinds of things can't be "grandfathered in" and it doesn't matter how temporary it is - even short-term fall hazards need to be addressed. At least that has been the takeaway lesson in every OSHA General and Construction regs class I've taken.


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## gafftaper

Les said:


> I found this interesting as well. Best of my knowledge, these kinds of things can't be "grandfathered in" and it doesn't matter how temporary it is - even short-term fall hazards need to be addressed. At least that has been the takeaway lesson in every OSHA General and Construction regs class I've taken.


While I agree, it looks like Indianna is not an OSHA State. So IOSHA may have some slightly different takes on these things. On the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if we find out it did break the state code but there isn't any funding for inspections.


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## BillConnerFASTC

In general, I don't have much confidence in OSHA, partly because it only covers employees, not volunteers and students, but largely because the public has little opportunity to influence the requirements, becausevit is poorly written for enforcement, and becausecit isxpoory supported in terms of being able to call for help or conducting periodic inspections. The building and fire codes don't have these defects.

The stair to nowhere is an interesting issue, and a new one on me. If its a stair, handrails are required. And are choral risers stairs? I don't think this is a huge hazard, and don't know the particulars of the permance or geometry of this particular arrangement, nor if there are other operational aspects, like are these removed when pit is used, are there portable guards or barriers, etc. This set is for filler in place, and we don't know what happens when pit is open.


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## BillConnerFASTC

I've been told 2nd hand from someone who has been on site that it is not the original pit filler so that architect, consultant, manufacturer, and contractor should be somewhat relieved.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Just a little tid bit. The original system were decks on a scaffold like support system. (I don't want to name the manufacturer but you get it - metal legs and cross braces.) Reportedly, for some production some months or years previous to the one during which the failure occurred, they wanted a clear span - no forest of legs and braces - for musicians to be in pit with cover on. Apparently, that home built for a particular production system was left in, and the manufactured system was stored in the hallway outside the pit.

(Relating to one of my other themes, this home built should have met building code requirements of a stage, and didn't.)


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## egilson1

Thanks for the update @BillConnerASTC. Will be interesting to see the lawsuits fly if this was indeed the case.


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## Moose Hatrack

And the home built cover was built to make room for people underneath it... So happy the pit was empty during that performance.


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## BillConnerFASTC

egilson1 said:


> Thanks for the update @BillConnerASTC. Will be interesting to see the lawsuits fly if this was indeed the case.


Yes. But in discussing this afternoon, we figured that probably the majority of high schools have things like this in their auditoriums and on their stages. Whether unsafe rigging, platforms and risers inadequately designed, fire hazards, electrical dangers - I think there are lots of things that could go wrong. If only we knew about the unreported incidents. And I haven't visited a high school auditorium with an orchestra pit of more than a few years old where there wasn't a story of a fall incident.


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## Scenemaster60

An update on the results of the official investigation. Sounds like previous posts here were spot-on as to the cause.
http://fox59.com/2015/05/19/westfield-officials-to-reveal-results-of-stage-collapse-investigation/


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## BillConnerFASTC

A different report of some results.
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ice-report-westfield-stage-collapse/27570285/

I like the "regular inspections" part......


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## kicknargel

Key section of the Indystar story (emphasis added):

"Superintendent Mark Keen and Westfield Police Capt. Charles Hollowell said auditorium director Quinten James removed large, steel support beams from beneath the orchestra pit cover in order to create more room for students.
James also designed, bought materials and built a new cover for the orchestra pit in January. James, though, attached the cover to decorative trim surrounding the pit that was not designed as a support structure."

Oy. Wood is wood, right?


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## GreyWyvern

kicknargel said:


> James, though, attached the cover to decorative trim surrounding the pit that was *not designed as a support structure*."
> 
> Oy. Wood is wood, right?


Yes, wood is wood. However, how the wood is attached to other things matters. Decorative trim could very well be held in place with tiny brad nails or staples. That isn't going to hold much more than the trim. It was decorative trim, not load bearing trim. Big difference.


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## Scenemaster60

Yeah, this was just a poorly conceived retro-fit with disastrous consequences.

A local PAC here in the twin cities had a similar situation in that they had a pit cover that was supported by a metal truss system. It took a 4-man crew 4 hours to pull or replace the cover and after several years of doing that 2-3 times a month they decided to have it re-engineered so that the truss system was only needed when the pit cover needed to be lowered below stage level to create a sunken area. They hired a structural engineer to do the re-design using the same pit cover pieces (which were custom made by Secoa originally). The new system only requires a 2 man call for one hour. It involves heavy-duty pieces of angle-iron (steel actually) lag-bolted into reinforced concrete that the pit cover rests on.

Also, it's engineered in such a way that it for some unforeseen reason one of the metal pieces were to begin pulling out of the concrete or snap off it would only create a "soft spot" between two sections. of the cover. I don't see how it could EVER collapse catastrophically.


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## BillConnerFASTC

This is classic deck failure - the ledger fastening did not hold. I'm ignoring the comment made by a fire marshal in a code meeting in the past hour that referred to drama teachers as "the world's greatest threat to humanity." Yes - definitely overstated - but not baseless.


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## gafftapegreenia

BillConnerASTC said:


> This is classic deck failure - the ledger fastening did not hold. I'm ignoring the comment made by a fire marshal in a code meeting in the past hour that referred to drama teachers as "the world's greatest threat to humanity." Yes - definitely overstated - but not baseless.



He was probably referring more to how drama teachers make kids in to free thinking, artistically expressive pinko commies.


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## gafftaper

BillConnerASTC said:


> I'm ignoring the comment made by a fire marshal in a code meeting in the past hour that referred to drama teachers as "the world's greatest threat to humanity."


Ha! That's so funny!


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## kicknargel

I think the threat here is that schools expect a drama teacher (or English teacher) to also be the de facto technical director. It's relatively easy to get capital funding to put in all kinds of technical equipment, and almost impossible to get operating funding to hire a pro to oversee it.


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## BillConnerFASTC

kicknargel said:


> I think the threat here is that schools expect a drama teacher (or English teacher) to also be the de facto technical director. It's relatively easy to get capital funding to put in all kinds of technical equipment, and almost impossible to get operating funding to hire a pro to oversee it.



Yes. Someone not qualified is assigned, asked, feels obligated, and/or trys to do tech work. Powers that be lack of understanding and respect for what happens on a stage. Often not shy to accept praise for it. I think it was obvious that no one knew the drama teacher built a new pit filler and probably unlikely any real knowledge of scenery being built, etc. Somehow I don't think the same individuals are as ignorant of what is happening in many of the interscholastic athletic activities. Not everywhere, but too often the case.


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