# Is this Reasonable?



## ScottT (Apr 16, 2010)

Backstory: I go to school at a 6-12 High School & am currently in a battle with the Building Manager (Sodexho). The disconnect box for our lighting rack is located in the mechanical room. Currently I am fighting so that we have access to this room. A few weeks ago, Sodexho decided to switch the lock on the door so that only 3 people would have access. None of these people work in the theatre and none of them are here on a regular basis.

So the question is: Is this reasonable?

I feel it is not, for two reasons:
1) Safety, we should be able to turn the rack off and be able to switch to back up power in case of an emergency.

2) Maintenance, we leave our rack on 24/7 (yeah...) and it is supposed to be cleaned every ~360 operating hours which poses a problem to us getting them to unlock the mechanical room.

Also, the reason why I was told we could not have a key is because "the theatre people" used the mechanical room for storage. Now, I do not know who did this, but it wasn't the technical people. The funny thing is that I got Sodexho to open then door, what do you know? They are storing stuff in there. When I was speaking to the head Building Manager I said I understood his reasoning for changing the lock because is it against the fire code to store stuff in there. But with him breaking the code as well, what's the point?

Does any one have any issues with (not me!) but our theatre manager having the keys to this mystical room? Has anyone experienced this before and do you have suggestions for points for me to make?


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## len (Apr 16, 2010)

It seems unreasonable to me. But I'm assuming you're a student. You don't know anything and can't be trusted. At least that's what they think. There's no way a contractor is going to give a key to anything to any student. The "storage" issue is just a cover. You're going to have to get a teacher/adviser/admin. to intervene, going through channels, make a formal request, all that crap. The contractor is going to want something in writing absolving them of any liability.


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## ScottT (Apr 16, 2010)

Ah yes, I guess I forgot to include that. I went to the (basically) CFO of our school and he told me to go and talk to the building manager. The building manager told me that he would have to hash it out with "the powers that be". This is going to be a long fight.


Is the storage thing actually against the code? I was just assuming it was, but if anyone could confirm or even cite the code that would be amazing!


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## Footer (Apr 16, 2010)

Electrical panels are supposed to be clear X number of feet. The X number changes depending on where you are. Its usually at least 3'. Therefore, in many electrical rooms it is nearly impossible to store anything because everything is within 3' of something. 

Is your theatre manager staff/faculty?


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## MNicolai (Apr 16, 2010)

ScottT said:


> Ah yes, I guess I forgot to include that. I went to the (basically) CFO of our school and he told me to go and talk to the building manager. The building manager told me that he would have to hash it out with "the powers that be". This is going to be a long fight.
> 
> 
> Is the storage thing actually against the code? I was just assuming it was, but if anyone could confirm or even cite the code that would be amazing!



Fire codes are touchy. To actually violate code, it depends what is being stored, how it's being stored, how much space it takes up, and where it's positioned in the room. Unless you've spoken with the AHJ, you don't know for certain whether or not your maintenance crew is causing problems.

As a general rule, storage in mechanical rooms is frowned upon.

Also, ~360 hours seems like a very short time-span for cleaning cycles. What kind of dimmer racks do you own?

And I don't think you're argument for the dimmer racks as a safety factor is going to hold water with the higher ups. Any hazards in an educational environment that students may be faced with that would require the use of powering down the rack should be handled by a competent adult. If the insurance companies knew you were playing with electrical panels, they would not at all be pleased.


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## cprted (Apr 16, 2010)

To make a long story short, no, it isn't reasonable for a student to expect a key to a mechanical/electrical room.


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## shiben (Apr 17, 2010)

cprted said:


> To make a long story short, no, it isn't reasonable for a student to expect a key to a mechanical/electrical room.




> Does any one have any issues with (not me!) but our theatre manager having the keys to this mystical room? Has anyone experienced this before and do you have suggestions for points for me to make?



The OP clearly states that they do not want access to the room themselves, but rather the theatre manager. I might be biased, because I have a building master key and can go pretty much anywhere I please and am a student (college level, fwiw), but I think its not unreasonable to have a person dealing with the theatre to have access to some way to turn off the dimmer racks. However, in our space, there are disconnects located right next to the dimmer racks, in a room off of one of our space's wings (former prop lockup, incidentally), and everyone with a theatre plant master (pretty much all the people paid to work for the department) can get in there. Anyhow, the point of all of this is it does make sense to have someone who can turn off the dimmer racks in the theatre department. However, that person should be an adult, who is trained in how to disconnect the gear, and how to properly LO/TO and other safety measures for working on the other end, and should probably also be the only one who does work on the rack then. There are only 3 people in our department who can do this kind of thing, and I am one of them. I had to be trained in all sorts of things, from how to safely shut the thing off (that was boring, I spent an hour learning how to pull a lever), how to make sure the entire thing was dead, and a couple other things, and was issued personal LO/TO locks, along with the other guys who can shut off the gear. Although it seems easy enough, 400A3ø @ 120V is not something you really want to be in any way responsible for working on. Its easily enough to turn you into something KFC would serve, and without proper training, its not too hard to come into contact with it. Electricity is one of 3 things that I refuse to play a bit fast and loose with safety while dealing with. The others are Volcanos and Bio - weapons (I dont actually deal with either, but those are the only other things that the prospect of dealing with scares me). However, its always funny when we have a full crew working on the LX system, 2 sparks and 3 of us from the theatre, big long line of locks on the tag out bar, and little cards that I find funny, but I suppose are serious.


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## MarshallPope (Apr 17, 2010)

cprted said:


> To make a long story short, no, it isn't reasonable for a student to expect a key to a mechanical/electrical room.




But I think it is more than reasonable for the theatre manager to have access to the theatre dimmers.

EDIT - in response to whatrigger's post below this post.
Yeah, Sodexho runs my school's food service. They can be....interesting. Although their chick-fil-a on campus did give us free ice to use in our current musical.


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## What Rigger? (Apr 17, 2010)

Ah, Sodexho. Yeah, I'm not a fan. Just sayin'.


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## ScottT (Apr 17, 2010)

Footer said:


> Is your theatre manager staff/faculty?



Yes, he is there full time and already has a master key & a key to the library office which is the only other door that was keyed different because of thefts last year.


MNicolai said:


> To actually violate code, it depends what is being stored, how it's being stored, how much space it takes up, and where it's positioned in the room.



Everything from paint (not sure if latex or oil) to empty boxes to spray paint to folding chairs.



MNicolai said:


> Also, ~360 hours seems like a very short time-span for cleaning cycles. What kind of dimmer racks do you own?



ETC Sensor Plus. But now that I go back and look through the user's manual, I can't find the reference for the cleaning time. But as I said, the racks are on 24/7 and get really, really, really, really dusty.


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## ScottT (Apr 17, 2010)

MarshallPope said:


> Yeah, Sodexho runs my school's food service. They can be....interesting. Although their chick-fil-a on campus did give us free ice to use in our current musical.



I refuse to eat their food after having watched Food Inc.


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## MNicolai (Apr 18, 2010)

I think you have 360 hours confused with 180 days. Most people I know clean their racks every 180 days, which is once every 6 months. It can vary depending on how well your HVAC systems filter the air, and if you've been doing lots of construction that might launch more particles into the air, but every ~15 days is overkill for cleaning.

We clean each of our three SR48+ racks and our two Unison DR12 racks every six months. Typically you'll find racks with house lighting to be the dirtiest because they have the fans on more often and draw more air (and dust) into the rack.


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## Dover (Apr 18, 2010)

If they will not give the theatre dept. a key, tell them that you need a 24/7 contact number in case of an emergency. You do not need to tell what the emergency might be, just imply that they might get called at home at 3am Sunday morning. Sometimes they will give you a key just so they will not get called in the middle of the night. If they will not give you either of those then you can to the admin with some proof that they are stonewalling you.

However that being said one of the only reasons I can think of for needing to get to the dimmer disconnect in a hurry is if the dimmer rack is on fire, if that happens I say just call the fire department and let them "unlock" the door.

Dover


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## ScottT (Apr 18, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> We clean each of our three SR48+ racks and our two Unison DR12 racks every six months. Typically you'll find racks with house lighting to be the dirtiest because they have the fans on more often and draw more air (and dust) into the rack.



We have one rack, with both our house and stage lights in them. But that does make a lot more sense.


Dover said:


> However that being said one of the only reasons I can think of for needing to get to the dimmer disconnect in a hurry is if the dimmer rack is on fire, if that happens I say just call the fire department and let them "unlock" the door.



True, but I found another reason to have a key. We don't have enough dimmer modules to fill our rack so we swap them around for the work/house lights & the stage lights. It says in the manual that you should disconnect the power (we have always just tripped the individual breaker) and we swap the modules before and after every rehearsal so they are going to be needing to unlock the door a lot more. 

Thanks for all the help guys


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## MNicolai (Apr 18, 2010)

Seriously, don't go looking for unnecessary reasons (aka excuses) to get into the room. Giving keys out is something many companies don't like to do when they can avoid it, especially to people who only need access to a given room every 6 months. There's a lot of liability in giving out keys to people who don't need them, because if it gets lost, all locks that key opens need to be replaced. In some school districts, that can be almost every lock in a building. They also need to make sure as few people as possible might have access to a room, because the more people with access, the more likely something will get stolen or "indefinitely borrowed" Plus, what sounds like students to be asking for keys to a room filled with electrical and maintenance equipment is really never a good idea. Sodexho isn't paid to give students access to things that might kill them, no matter how qualified you think you are.

You're not the one who should be fighting this battle. Whichever staff member is the one who needs access is the one who should be fighting it. Until then it's implied that if you're asking for a key, even on someone else's behalf, you're the one who wants access to the room. (and schools don't like students in electrical rooms)


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## misterm (Apr 19, 2010)

scott, as a high school theatre teacher who has had trouble with keys and access, i think this is a fight your teacher or sponsor should be fighting FOR you. they should have keys to the room and you can access it WITH them when need be. I would never expect my students to fight the administration on their own, especially building managers, since they are not aware of the needs like we in the theatre are. your teacher needs to handle this, make them aware of it.


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## ScottT (Apr 29, 2010)

Wanted to thank you all for you help and also close out the discussion.

In the end, the Director of Business Operations went to Sodexho to ask for a key. They told him no. Yes, you read that right, they told him he couldn't have a key to his own building. At this point, everyone was bypassed and the Assistant Building Manager gave my teacher a key for the weekend of the show.

Personally I feel like the Building Manger won't have a job at my school for much longer after hearing the rumors about his conversation withe the Director of Business Operations but that's just me.


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## shiben (Apr 29, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> I think you have 360 hours confused with 180 days. Most people I know clean their racks every 180 days, which is once every 6 months. It can vary depending on how well your HVAC systems filter the air, and if you've been doing lots of construction that might launch more particles into the air, but every ~15 days is overkill for cleaning.
> 
> We clean each of our three SR48+ racks and our two Unison DR12 racks every six months. Typically you'll find racks with house lighting to be the dirtiest because they have the fans on more often and draw more air (and dust) into the rack.



The place I used to work was on a 30 day cleaning schedule because of the dust buildup in the mechanical spaces. Apparently the concrete was not done right or something, because just walking on it after it was mopped made it dusty again. At any rate, sounds like the issue was resolved.


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