# When is a ghost load needed



## Dustincoc (Mar 3, 2013)

How many watts do you need to put on a dimmer at minimum to avoid needing a ghost load? I may be using a string of ropelights on a dimmer as a light source which can't be drawing much power. I haven't seem the lights I'm going to try so I don't know how long it is.


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## JD (Mar 3, 2013)

Dustincoc said:


> How many watts do you need to put on a dimmer at minimum to avoid needing a ghost load? I may be using a string of ropelights on a dimmer as a light source which can't be drawing much power. I haven't seem the lights I'm going to try so I don't know how long it is.



Usually 50 watts if the load is resistive. Unfortunately, LED rope lights are not as there is a drop voltage that must be reached and until it is they appear as an open load. Resistive incandescent rope lights are not a problem as long as they are above 50 watts total and do not use a transformer.


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## Wood4321 (Mar 3, 2013)

This varies per dimmer type, although I have never had a problem with conventional ropelight.
As long as it is 10-25' long you will likely be ok. However, if it is LED Ropelight, you will most likely need a ghost load of some sort.


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## Dustincoc (Mar 3, 2013)

The dimmers are Sensor+ 2.4k


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## ship (Mar 3, 2013)

Normally I would do 75 Watts for anything on a dimmer.


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## derekleffew (Mar 4, 2013)

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...t-bulb-still-glows-when-dimmer-fully-off.html

For a ghost load, I like a double pigtail cue light: two pendant E26 sockets, fitted cages and 60, 75, or 100W incandescent A-lamps (if they can still be found), wired in parallel to one 20-2P&G M. Two-fer this somewhere offstage into the same circuit that has your ropelights on it. 
I once used a 1000W scoop sitting on the floor, and made a real nice burn mark on the carpet in the dimmer room. I'll never do that again. It smelled bad.


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## techieman33 (Mar 4, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...t-bulb-still-glows-when-dimmer-fully-off.html
> 
> For a ghost load, I like a double pigtail cue light: two pendant E26 sockets, fitted cages and 60, 75, or 100W incandescent A-lamps (if they can still be found), wired in parallel to one 20-2P&G M. Two-fer this somewhere offstage into the same circuit that has your ropelights on it.
> I once used a 1000W scoop sitting on the floor, and made a real nice burn mark on the carpet in the dimmer room. I'll never do that again. It smelled bad.



They're still out there. We got in a case of 100W A19's a couple of weeks ago.


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## tyler.martin (Mar 4, 2013)

techieman33 said:


> They're still out there. We got in a case of 100W A19's a couple of weeks ago.



Depends where you are... Some states/provinces have banned incandescent household lamps. There is a ban set to go in place next year in my Province. No more 75 or 100w as of Jan 1st 2014, and no Incandescents except for specialities as of June 1st 2014. I've bee stock pyling, the strange part is the ban does not affect PAR style lamps, just regular A type globes.


That being said, I think it really depends on the brand of dimmers, I haven't ever needed to put a ghost load on a low wattage circuit on a Sensor rack, but frequently need to on my CD80's.


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## Dustincoc (Mar 4, 2013)

I've actually decided that clip-lights would work better for this application as the opening is ~6x8 and I don't think I'll get enough glow out of ropelights. THe effect is to create a ghost house for Urinetown, the ghosts are behind a double layer of scrim with an LED curtain behind them. the cavity the actors stand in in is only 2' deep. I'll probably still end up running te cliplights at a relatively low level to just be able to see the actors.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 4, 2013)

If you are using incandescent rope light, I would wait to see if you really need a ghost load. I have done so much work with incandescent rope light and never had dimming issues. LED would be another story, but is there actually line voltage dimmable LED ropelight? I thought most of the LED stuff had a transformer/controller of some sort.


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## Dustincoc (Mar 4, 2013)

At the moment I'm planning on using cliplights like these:



The more I think about it, the more I think rope lights won't have enough punch because of the size of the window(8x6).. I can only run them around the parimeter.


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## Brandofhawk (Mar 5, 2013)

tyler.martin said:


> Depends where you are... Some states/provinces have banned incandescent household lamps. There is a ban set to go in place next year in my Province. No more 75 or 100w as of Jan 1st 2014, and no Incandescents except for specialities as of June 1st 2014. I've bee stock pyling, the strange part is the ban does not affect PAR style lamps, just regular A type globes.
> 
> 
> That being said, I think it really depends on the brand of dimmers, I haven't ever needed to put a ghost load on a low wattage circuit on a Sensor rack, but frequently need to on my CD80's.



I have not read the legislation, but what I have heard that in California where the ban is coming / has started, that there is special wording in regards to theatrical supply companies. I could be wrong and wouldn't be surprised if I am... but it might just mean instead of running down to Home Depot that we have to order them specially / run down to the local theater supply place. But this of course means that their price will go up. 

This might be true in other places. Basically read your legislation, to figure it out then go into the business to supply them before someone else does. =P


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## ship (Mar 5, 2013)

I remember a thought from Mark from Osram about the GE-Reveal lamps that are not obsolete. Something like took some of the least efficient lamps avaiable and added the coating so as to become something everyone including me wanted, and also thus get the exception in doing a color temprature change. Aerotech with 20,000 hour lamps amongst all brands of 2,000 hour long life lamps etc. in other hard service and rough service lamps that won't be discontinued I wouldn't be worried about finding even the long discontinued 150W PAR 38 if you really still want one. As a lamp buyer - no matter the various stages if IMPACT.. what the designer wants will always be available in weighing the LED price that's coming down verses lamp price.

Heck I have a case or two of them and am legal to sell off old stock still legal to sell, but beyond that most of this legeslation is about home owner use lamps and commercial/industrial grade verions of what you want is still available for the most part. Rrally if you are fearing some lamps not available, you probably are not using the best lamps anyway and should be converting and finding a new lamp. If you need a specific lamp type, you can probaby find it and just ask for something more efficient.

As another concept in working some lights for a school, they can did a energy credit for some 100A/HAL/F A-lamps I installed in their strip/boarder light after a re-wiring and lamping. Cut wattage by 1/3 and in servicing them and adding lamp extenders, was very enrgy efficient for what it was. Lamp extenders are not cheap but can make a times the difference between obsolete gear and useful now gear once serviced. Yea it's a wash of light, but talking grade school in running a show.

Owner of the company for where I work saw the news appairently and wanted a stock pile of discontinued lamps for his own or future show stock. Tried to explain the above, but literally a few pallets of obsolete lamps now in his private storage that I could easily replace with better lamps. IMPACT really not to worry about for your show needs.


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