# School rigging



## NewChris (Dec 2, 2013)

I am currently at a high school that opened in the early 1970's. The auditorium has not had many updates and I "think" the rigging is all original. The problem is no one at the school knows how to use the rigging. We think we know what it does, but aren't sure if it works or if it is safe. I took some photos so I could get some help figuring out the system. 
The first photo is the bar that holds the ropes. The next one shows the counter weight (I think). the it has the point were the ropes start to go along the ceiling. The last one has the bar that we think can be raised or lowered. Its the straight beam.


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## egilson1 (Dec 2, 2013)

Chris,
Not to sound dramatic, but based on those photos, that is some VERY very dangerous rigging. You need to have a professional rigger come into your space ASAP and determine how best to fix the problems. I would go as far as to close the stage until that rigging can be fixed.

Regards,
Ethan


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## DuckJordan (Dec 2, 2013)

This looks like home made rigging. I'd stay far away from this if not destroy it.


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## NewChris (Dec 2, 2013)

I thought it didn't look safe. Unfortunately there is no way for me to close the stage. All of that is at the very back of the stage so no one really is every under it. I am definently going to try to get something done about that then. How do I find a professional in my area?


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## Robert (Dec 2, 2013)

Look in the yellow pages or Google or what-ever you have in your are to find a theatrical equipment supplier. They may be willing to come and due a survey of you facility for free as a way to get to sell you gear and to develop a business relationship. They may also know who in the area is capable of looking at you facility. If you are far off the beaten path yo may have to pay mileage and a fee.


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## porkchop (Dec 2, 2013)

Yah, it looks like someone got a hold of a rigging catalog and thought I could make that work, which is rarely a good thing.

Since your profile says you're 15 I would think the best thing to do is express your safety concerns to your teacher. If they completely blow you off or don't understand why it's unsafe (the words "it's never been a problem before" are a particular pet-peeve of mine) then there are professionals on this site that can help you explain to them why this is a problem.


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## derekleffew (Dec 2, 2013)

NewChris said:


> ... How do I find a professional in my area?


Psst @NewChris: @egilson1 (ETCP-Certified Rigger & Trainer) is ~12 miles away from you. I'd consider starting there.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2013)

I concur with others. This is crap rigging and should be taken out of service and no one should be allowed under it. Get a professional to look at it and send a letter to the Owner.


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## NewChris (Dec 2, 2013)

Yup, I will definently talk to my advisor. We have a tech week next week so it will probably be after that. I will start mentioning it to try to find someone/ contact someone.


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## MichaelPHS (Dec 3, 2013)

Seems to be a super power these days, but especially after all this feedback (of which I agree, kill it with fire) use your common sense and refuse to use it during that tech week unless its completely un-avoidable, but even then safety the bejeebus outta everything


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## NewChris (Dec 3, 2013)

Currently the rigging isn't used for anything. I want to learn how to use it for future shows. I definently like the idea of killing it with fire.


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## venuetech (Dec 3, 2013)

NewChris said:


> Currently the rigging isn't used for anything. I want to learn how to use it for future shows.



it may not be used for "anything" but it is still hanging over students heads and could come down with somone under it or when someone attempts to work with it.

is that a bent pipe hanging in your 021 photo? 

get a rigger in there ASAP no student should be working near that stuff


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## NewChris (Dec 3, 2013)

venuetech said:


> it may not be used for "anything" but it is still hanging over students heads and could come down with somone under it or when someone attempts to work with it.
> 
> is that a bent pipe hanging in your 021 photo?
> 
> get a rigger in there ASAP no student should be working near that stuff




I am not sure if it is supposed to be bent... I thought it was dangerous, but never thought it was this dangerous. Wow.


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## josh88 (Dec 3, 2013)

Home made stuff that not rated for any kind of load is always a danger. Like others have said, even it's empty and not being used it's over someone's head so if something fails or someone unites something it could drop on someone, become tangled in something else. It's the same reason you should just buy shackles from Home Depot or pulleys from a sailing store. With unrated equipment there's no way to know what the safe working load is or what something can hold after you build in the safety factor. This is why professionals like Ethan are certified, because it can easily become a danger to people's lives.


Via Tapatalk


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## cmckeeman (Dec 4, 2013)

While this is no replacement for getting a trained knowledgeable rigger you should suggest to your teacher to purchase and read the Stage Rigging Handbook, while it is no replacement for years of knowledge and experience it will give you a respected guide to understanding stage rigging.


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## MichaelPHS (Dec 4, 2013)

cmckeeman said:


> While this is no replacement for getting a trained knowledgeable rigger you should suggest to your teacher to purchase and read the Stage Rigging Handbook, while it is no replacement for years of knowledge and experience it will give you a respected guide to understanding stage rigging.


 
Amen, I often wonder why directors don't undertake tech training before they are allowed to direct, would give them an insight into what can safely be done then. After thinking on this last night, I'd now be inclined to say take it down if its safe to do so. As the tech guy you'll be on the end of a berating if it breaks, indirectly yes but still, as your advisor would get it in the neck then pass that down to you knowing its unsafe, if that makes sense.


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## lwinters630 (Dec 4, 2013)

If those are fiber ropes holding a metal batten overhead, lower it to the floor and do not raise it up. Understand if you do not know the safe working load rating, the fiber rope could break and kill some one.

Knowledge is responsibility!


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## mstaylor (Dec 4, 2013)

I don't know squat about theatre rigging, I am an arena rigger, but if it is homemade, definitely get someone to look at it. Even if it was professionally built, it is old and not inspected in a long time. To top it off, you admittedly know nothing about how to operate it so you also need to get someone to educate you guys. That may be the same company but it may mean somebody has to go to a certification class. I have been in the business all my adult life but have never flown a counterweight system so I would never try.


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## RickR (Dec 4, 2013)

MichaelPHS said:


> Amen, I often wonder why directors don't undertake tech training before they are allowed to direct, would give them an insight into what can safely be done then.



I work with and talk to quite a few HS drama teachers. Most have taken tech classes, and then taught for years and decades. Amidst the pressures of being a teacher, director, producer, baby sitter they only remember their name because everyone around them is calling it out.


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## kicknargel (Dec 4, 2013)

I'm pretty sure a pro rigger would either tell you this has to be decommissioned, or that it would be very expensive to fix. I'd have the facilities dept. lower the thing to the floor, then remove and destroy all ropes, pulleys, etc.


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## NewChris (Dec 4, 2013)

RickR said:


> I work with and talk to quite a few HS drama teachers. Most have taken tech classes, and then taught for years and decades. Amidst the pressures of being a teacher, director, producer, baby sitter they only remember their name because everyone around them is calling it out.



Ours probably doesn't given that he has told me he doesn't really want to be in charge of the tech crew. It was more a responsibility that came with his job.


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## MichaelPHS (Dec 5, 2013)

Wait, a drama teacher (also employed as a director, and more often than not stage manager, in most cases since its mostly the drama dept. that puts on the shows) doesn't want anything to do with the tech crew? Sounds like a right barrell of laughs. If this is the case I suggest strongly someone take a SM role or suggest itto your principal so that the tech aspect doesn't get left by the wayside, as thats when the 'dodge'n'bodge' starts to happen


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## NewChris (Dec 5, 2013)

So he was hired as a math teacher and to teach TV and video. He is only in charge of tech crew, not any of e other parts of theatre. He mainly doesn't like the responsibility of all the equipment. We also don't have stage managers.


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## NewChris (Dec 5, 2013)

So I looked more closely today and figured out that the white rope has no tension in it. It looks that the system is either perfectly balanced or very stuck and will not move easily. I am still working on bringing a professional in.


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## What Rigger? (Dec 6, 2013)

Agree with everything said here. Red tag it, do not use, get a qualified rigger in there *now*, and don't let anyone onstage until you do. Seriously. I've seen some junk in my time, but these photos are scaring the daylights out of me.

You have an uphill battle ahead of you. Do. Not. Quit. This is important.


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## Bryce_J (Jan 12, 2014)

NewChris said:


> I am not sure if it is supposed to be bent... I thought it was dangerous, but never thought it was this dangerous. Wow.


hey Chris,
the fact of the matter is that if you want to use this for the later shows it isn't a matter of getting it updated. That is not a "rig" its a makeshift excuse for a rig that someone threw together by taking a trip to the hard wear store! If you had a professional come in to make it in "working condition" you would not be fixing it at all you would be installing a rigging system which would cost thousands of dollars and would need a building permit from the school and they would most likely shut down that stage the moment they saw that until they finish installing the new one. If your theater group wants to hang backdrops for shows in that theater but can't get the money to get a rigging system put in i suggest renting a truss that could stretch the length of your stage. But unless you are having a professional come in and install a new one I suggjest talking to your teacher and if they don't listen talk to your principle about the sever dangers and violation of numorous safety codes. If they won't have a professional come in to remove it (which would be *VERY VERY VERY STRONGLY RECOMMENDED!!)* That they should have a few people from maintenance go in and very carefully remove the pole the weights the pulleys and the wire. But only have matinence do it if they will not have a professional come in and do it for them! If they take the wrong thing off the wrong way they could get seriously hurt! I have no idea how they passed safety inspections for decades without having that removed but it is a very serious threat to every person who steps foot on that stage!


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 12, 2014)

Role play for a minute and imagine you do do this show and someone is injured by a rigging failure. Imagine a friend who will not walk again. Would there be any "I should have"s ?


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## NewChris (Jan 12, 2014)

Bryce_J said:


> hey Chris,
> the fact of the matter is that if you want to use this for the later shows it isn't a matter of getting it updated. That is not a "rig" its a makeshift excuse for a rig that someone threw together by taking a trip to the hard wear store! If you had a professional come in to make it in "working condition" you would not be fixing it at all you would be installing a rigging system which would cost thousands of dollars and would need a building permit from the school and they would most likely shut down that stage the moment they saw that until they finish installing the new one. If your theater group wants to hang backdrops for shows in that theater but can't get the money to get a rigging system put in i suggest renting a truss that could stretch the length of your stage. But unless you are having a professional come in and install a new one I suggjest talking to your teacher and if they don't listen talk to your principle about the sever dangers and violation of numorous safety codes. If they won't have a professional come in to remove it (which would be *VERY VERY VERY STRONGLY RECOMMENDED!!)* That they should have a few people from maintenance go in and very carefully remove the pole the weights the pulleys and the wire. But only have matinence do it if they will not have a professional come in and do it for them! If they take the wrong thing off the wrong way they could get seriously hurt! I have no idea how they passed safety inspections for decades without having that removed but it is a very serious threat to every person who steps foot on that stage!



The reason it has passed inspection is we haven't had one since 1993! My tech teacher is for getting an inspection of the auditorium so that is good. The high school is also being renovated this summer and the auditorium during the summer of 2016. This means there is no way the school would fund something that big.


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## josh88 (Jan 12, 2014)

It shouldn't be used until it's fixed however. So it's really a matter of do you want a safety hazard over peoples head that could fail resulting in lawsuits, medical expenses and more or fixing it now. They won't want to spend money if it's being worked on in a few years but if their insurance sees the liability and safety issues it would be cheaper to fix it than pay out to cover an incident. And if they still truly won't fix it, you really shouldn't be doing anything under it 


Via Tapatalk


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jan 12, 2014)

NewChris said:


> The reason it has passed inspection is we haven't had one since 1993! My tech teacher is for getting an inspection of the auditorium so that is good. The high school is also being renovated this summer and the auditorium during the summer of 2016. This means there is no way the school would fund something that big.



Think they'll get someone involved that knows what they are doing, unlike last time? Check out http://theatreconsultants.org/ for a complet elist of professional theatre consulatnts.


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## NewChris (Jan 12, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Think they'll get someone involved that knows what they are doing, unlike last time? Check out http://theatreconsultants.org/ for a complet elist of professional theatre consulatnts.


That's a really good list. My tech teacher is currently goings through alps who I found on this site.


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## MPowers (Jan 12, 2014)

This isn't rigging, it's an accident waiting to happen. Potentially a dangerous or even fatal one. Do not use the existing rigging, do not allow anyone to try to use it. Go to http://etcp.plasa.org/cert_technicians/search.php
and locate a ETCP rigger in your area to come in and assess and remove the existing "rigging".
Go to your teacher or administrator and let him know what we have said. If he/she would like to contact me directly to discuss this, email me at [email protected] or call 515-557-0178.


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