# Reserves and Theatre work



## peterleif (May 23, 2013)

Hi all

I am looking at joining the USAF Reserves and I am wondering if anyone has had experience with how it interacts with your career if anyone has done reserve service before. Im just trying to see if it is something I can do while beginning a career in theatre or is it too intensive and will take away from my candidacy from many theatre jobs?


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## ruinexplorer (May 23, 2013)

While I have not served, I can say that the reserves would probably fit well with freelance work. From my friends who were enlisted, they genereally knew well enough in advance of times that they would be deployed that they could either turn down work or find a replacement. It is a requirement that employers will work with you for this service. Will it shut some doors for you, possibly. There are some venues who run on too much of a skeleton crew that it could be quite a concern if they had to send off one of their employees. On the other hand, you could potentially be learning some skills that would benefit the employer.


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## cbrandt (May 23, 2013)

It may make designing for some shows difficult or not possible, if your deployment/training times fall inside of tech week for that show. Otherwise, it seems like a really good occupational fit for the industry. as ruinexplorer said, from most of the people that I've known, there isn't much in the way of surprise service time. As long as you've got notice, you can manage your own time well enough that it should have little impact on your reputation, and there are plenty of people who appreciate service time on resumes.


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## Footer (May 23, 2013)

Give Rocky a call at Production Advantage. He is a reservist and has been deployed a few times. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## MPowers (May 24, 2013)

Although I was never in the "Reserves" or in the Air Force, a good friend of mine, Rick Holen was in a Theatre Troupe in the Air Force in Viet Nam. He was there acting while I was there ...... well, blowing stuff up. Anyway he wrote the following:


> Mike,
> I did 3 and a half years in the Air Force. During that time, where ever I was stationed I would seek out any operating theatre company. I was stationed at Charleston AFB, SC and worked at the Dock Street Theatre for two years. When I was in Vietnam I was assigned TDY for 2 and a months with the Army Special Services Command Military Touring Shows and toured the Fantasticks in all four corps. When I returned to the states I was stationed at Reese AFB in Lubbock, Texas and hung out at Texas Tech theatre department acting in shows and doing tech at night after my Air Force job was done.
> I looked for opportunities and went after them to get as much training and experience I could get in theatre. During base training I told my DI that I was an actor and wanted to work in radio or television. He looked at me like I was nuts. So there wasn't any opportunities for me in the Air Force. I know that there are career fields in broadcasting, but nothing in theatre specifically. I know that the Air Force has a recreation MOS. He might want to look into that area of training. He may end up handing out tennis rackets or cleaning pools. Broadcasting may be a possibility. He should talk to his recruiter. The problem there is his local Air Guard unit has a large Air Base that might have a recreational facility. Have him e-mail if he wants to. I guess the bottom line is to have a fire in your belly and really, really want to find that experience.



If you would like to drop Rick a note, PM me or contact me directly and I will give you his e-mail address.

In the meantime, while I was in the CORPS I did theatre during the time I was stationed at Cherry Point, NC. I designed built and teched shows for the base Theatre Club and during the summer acted and did some tech and Lighting design for a small summer stock group in Beaufort NC just a few miles south of the Air Base. Now, during the time I was there I was active duty and they treated that, as much as possible, like a regular 8-5 job. Weekends and evenings were yours to spend as you wished....except for inspections....and monthly inventory.....and...well there were a few things that ate into that off duty time but they really did try to keep it at a minimum and it was always scheduled weeks in advance so you knew how to adjust your schedule. 

Hope this helps. Oh and by the way, if you decide to enlist, you'll always get a Semper Fi from me, even if you choose to go "Air Force" .... (mumble grumble) (guess everyone can't be a jarhead) (grumble-mumble).


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## Amore (May 27, 2013)

This is exactly one of my problems as well! I have been considering going into the National Air Guard or the USAF Reserves while I attend college. My initial concern was the two weeks out of the summer I am obligated to be on-base. This, I thought, would almost completely remove any possibility of getting a summer-stock internship. Am I correct in my assumption?

If I am, isn't it important to have internships on your resume graduating from college? I have thought that if I graduated without any internships, it would make me much less valuable than other students who did.


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## TDN (May 27, 2013)

While internships are great, any job experience is really what I'd look for. When I graduated college, I didn't have any summer stock on my resume- but I had a huge list of shows I had worked on during the school year, and I spent my summers freelancing as a tech and working full time for an A/V company. So while the Reserves may cut into summer stock opportunities, you can probably find other gigs instead. Also, a lot of summer stocks wrap up at the end of July- could you do your two weeks of active duty in August?


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## peterleif (May 27, 2013)

Wow I didn't know there was going to be this much response from the thread. Thank You all for the help. 

To Amore: I would think so to, but I always worked during the summer and I never did any summer stock jobs. Where I live there are a few theatres and I never got a lot of theatre work outside of college, I have about 3 years in management experience for a business but not so much in theatre. So I couldn't say. But TDN has good advice, the only benefit of a summer stock job is you get a lot of shows really fast, but if you want a more professional experience I would look at AV companies in your area, Since your in Central Texas, do you have any friends or family in Austin/ Houston area, you can find a lot of theatres in those areas and definitely A/V companies in those areas as well.


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## Footer (May 27, 2013)

Amore said:


> This is exactly one of my problems as well! I have been considering going into the National Air Guard or the USAF Reserves while I attend college. My initial concern was the two weeks out of the summer I am obligated to be on-base. This, I thought, would almost completely remove any possibility of getting a summer-stock internship. Am I correct in my assumption?
> 
> If I am, isn't it important to have internships on your resume graduating from college? I have thought that if I graduated without any internships, it would make me much less valuable than other students who did.



You really have to separate out internship from summerstock. I read internship and think either "slave labor that the company abuses" or "gets coffee for someone". Now, getting a summerstock job is very important. It is something you should do at least one summer. Going to work for a small sound/staging/lighting company and doing festivals all summer is also great experience. There is really no reason to do internships in this industry. The paid work is out there and it is pretty easy to find. If you find yourself only offered internships you did something wrong and you should figure out how to change that. 

Now, on that same vain if I got your resume' in and saw you had little experience outside of school BUT you had a military rank before your name that would be HUGE for me. That shows you have dedication towards something... know how to be punctual... have a good work ethic... etc. So, right there that experience pretty much trumps all the other resume's in the pile, period. 

Odds are both of you are looking at this to help pay for school. If you can graduate without student loans, do it at all costs. Even it it means you have to miss out on summer gigs. I can not tell you how far ahead of your peers you will be if you get out of school without loans and real world military experience. You won't be having to take 2nd and 3rd jobs to make rent AND pay your loans. This industry tends to really like military service. Many of the people hiring, myself included, have a great respect for people who have served and want to go the extra mile to help that person out. The same thing applies for when your out in the real world. I would rather have someone working for me that can give me a 100% for the time they are with me then someone who give me 75% for the whole year because they are working 2 other jobs to make rent and pay off debt. You can make this work.


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## ruinexplorer (May 27, 2013)

Footer said:


> You really have to separate out internship from summerstock. I read internship and think either "slave labor that the company abuses" or "gets coffee for someone". Now, getting a summerstock job is very important. It is something you should do at least one summer. Going to work for a small sound/staging/lighting company and doing festivals all summer is also great experience. There is really no reason to do internships in this industry. The paid work is out there and it is pretty easy to find. If you find yourself only offered internships you did something wrong and you should figure out how to change that.



See, it's funny how experiences vary. I look more highly on internships, especially from notable employers. My view of most candidates who had summerstock is that they just got the same experience in a different venue. There's a sizeable disconnect between academic/regional/community theater and corporate/for-profit theater. When the candidate has either an internship from a reputable company or work experience from a staging company, then I see them as someone who may have some skills. Then again, should I be hiring for a dinner theater, I'd probably pick someone who had summerstock experience over an internship. 

While it's true that there are some shady companies who would only use interns for getting coffee or "abuse" interns for a cheap labor source, those companies generally have a reputation to stay away from. There are many opportunities for gaining experience through an internship that you would never have received if you were only working for a smaller company or doing summerstock. This, of course, can make you a better candidate to work for a more prestigious employer at a younger age because they have already seen your work ethic and know that you have skills outside of the academic set.


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## deadlygopher (May 27, 2013)

ruinexplorer said:


> See, it's funny how experiences vary. I look more highly on internships, especially from notable employers. My view of most candidates who had summerstock is that they just got the same experience in a different venue. There's a sizeable disconnect between academic/regional/community theater and corporate/for-profit theater. When the candidate has either an internship from a reputable company or work experience from a staging company, then I see them as someone who may have some skills. Then again, should I be hiring for a dinner theater, I'd probably pick someone who had summerstock experience over an internship.
> 
> While it's true that there are some shady companies who would only use interns for getting coffee or "abuse" interns for a cheap labor source, those companies generally have a reputation to stay away from. There are many opportunities for gaining experience through an internship that you would never have received if you were only working for a smaller company or doing summerstock. This, of course, can make you a better candidate to work for a more prestigious employer at a younger age because they have already seen your work ethic and know that you have skills outside of the academic set.



As someone who has interned with one of those "notable employers," I think that it can be a really valuable experience. Along with the skills and experiences I gained from working there, having that company on my resume has opened the door for several great opportunities. The only time I was used as a coffee-retriever was when I nearly made a giant stupid and had to run up and down 4 flights of stairs to grab some gear that I'd accidentally left behind.


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## Amore (May 27, 2013)

Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to give your input. And yes, paying for college is why the military is a consideration.

• What I've read is that, since I'm intending on majoring in theatre, I either graduate without debt, or I don't graduate at all. I've gotten this impression from this forum and other lighting forums/blogs (since internet blogs are the most reliable source of information on the planet).
• I also have the impression that not graduating is an option since it is possible to build an eventually successful career in lighting design, which is currently my desire (I have an inclination towards theatre, though I’m aware of ‘lighting design’ encompassing many different types of jobs).
• However, my belief is that college would obviously make the pursuit MUCH easier given the connections, foundation of knowledge and etc. I would have.

How erroneous are these three beliefs?

Focusing back more on the topic: so, according to Footer, I'm still valuable compared to my peers without summer experience (internships, summer-stock, whatever it may be) as long as I have that military background. Ruinexplorer, would you say the same thing?

Also, would the one weekend every month and two weeks out of the summer I'm obligated on-base interfere with general work beyond graduation?
Again, thanks so much yall for your input, it's incredibly helpful for a high school student.


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## abomb123 (May 28, 2013)

I am currently in a national guard band. It's 11 at night after a long day so something I will wright will be messed up so I might have to finish this in a few days. I have been in 8 years. The national guard bands don't get deployed a lot and we kind of do things a little different than most units but I do know quit a bit about the military. One of the biggest mistakes about the military is that you have to live this strict military life when in reality after basic training its more like a 9 to 5 job. Reserves is pretty laid back. If you have to go for a month to run a play you can ask for the time off. if you don't ask and just don't show up... well that's a different story. It shouldn't interfere with you school to the point you will never finish. However, you might be deployed and how often and how much depends on your MOS. Schools are pretty fair to students that deal with military issues so you should be fine there.

Down side right now I am seeing less and less money for school. on the army side, which I sure is the same for the other branches, money is fading for school. They used to pay for 100% tuition, fee's and books. but now they are just down to tuition. I'm stuck paying the fee's and the books. and last semester because of the sequester the federal money just disappeared for about a month and came back. Right now I get money from my state and the federal. I worry about the reservist that have never been deployed only getting a 350$ monthly VA check and are stuck paying 20% of school. I at least have a state tuition waver that helps with that. I would look into air guard or army guard for more $$$.

also fun note. Army has Army entertainment. you can actually apply for a LD or audio position and you get active duty pay while on tour. its only open to those in the army. I'm sure the navy(and marines) and air force have the same thing.


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## ruinexplorer (May 28, 2013)

I totally agree that military on your résumé is a plus. Depending on what your specialty is, you may have some specialized skills that the average theater tech would not get in a traditional program. Skills that are often beneficial in automation for instance. Again, the one weekend a month is not always a deal breaker. A friend of mine who was on a bridging crew in the reserves was often able to switch weekends if hehad a prior commitment like a show. However, the two weeks per year was less flexible.


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## shiben (Jun 2, 2013)

Footer said:


> You really have to separate out internship from summerstock. I read internship and think either "slave labor that the company abuses" or "gets coffee for someone"...



While this may be true for smaller theater companies (a lot of my friends [especially in acting for whatever reason] end up getting coffee and calling donors for no pay), in the corporate/industrial side of things internships seem (based on my having one now) to be extended job interviews and training times. The company I am now an intern for has me welding, machining, building, and working alongside their staff. I work 8-5. I am paid a decent wage (its not my day rate, but its still decent). I am taken care of. I would hope that an employer would look at an internship at a rigging company differently than at the "podunkle storefront theater company" or something. 

To the OP, I have several friends in the USAF Reserves, the US Army Reserves, and one who is active duty USMC (while going to school no less). They all have time to not only participate in theater, but hold jobs in the business, and generally have a good time of it. I dont think you should have too much of a problem unless you want to do giant international tours.


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## Footer (Jun 2, 2013)

shiben said:


> While this may be true for smaller theater companies (a lot of my friends [especially in acting for whatever reason] end up getting coffee and calling donors for no pay), in the corporate/industrial side of things internships seem (based on my having one now) to be extended job interviews and training times. The company I am now an intern for has me welding, machining, building, and working alongside their staff. I work 8-5. I am paid a decent wage (its not my day rate, but its still decent). I am taken care of. I would hope that an employer would look at an internship at a rigging company differently than at the "podunkle storefront theater company" or something.
> 
> To the OP, I have several friends in the USAF Reserves, the US Army Reserves, and one who is active duty USMC (while going to school no less). They all have time to not only participate in theater, but hold jobs in the business, and generally have a good time of it. I dont think you should have too much of a problem unless you want to do giant international tours.



Agreed. A paying internship is a different beast. Paying internships that don't put you in the poor house are great things. Those type of internships are hard to find in most presenting houses. The music industry is just as bad as the theater industry in that regard. You really have to go to a company that is more corporate to find that work... And that is not what colleges are training for do most people don't know to look there. But that opens up a discussion for another day! 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## JChenault (Jun 2, 2013)

Amore said:


> Thank you so much everyone for taking the time to give your input. And yes, paying for college is why the military is a consideration.
> 
> • What I've read is that, since I'm intending on majoring in theatre, I either graduate without debt, or I don't graduate at all. I've gotten this impression from this forum and other lighting forums/blogs (since internet blogs are the most reliable source of information on the planet).
> • I also have the impression that not graduating is an option since it is possible to build an eventually successful career in lighting design, which is currently my desire (I have an inclination towards theatre, though I’m aware of ‘lighting design’ encompassing many different types of jobs).
> ...




I don't agree with your point two IF you want to be a lighting designer. IMHO being a technician is something you can learn on the job. Learning how to design, understanding art history, being in a place where you can take artistic chances and fail are vital to developing as a designer. The real world does not usually have the kind of opportunities you need to develop as a designer.


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## Footer (Jun 2, 2013)

JChenault said:


> I don't agree with your point two IF you want to be a lighting designer. IMHO being a technician is something you can learn on the job. Learning how to design, understanding art history, being in a place where you can take artistic chances and fail are vital to developing as a designer. The real world does not usually have the kind of opportunities you need to develop as a designer.



Depends if you are willing to work for free or not. There are plenty of places that will allow you to design... they just don't pay you. Personally, I feel if you are going to school just to be a lighting designer you are wasting your money and time. There is not enough work out there to just be an LD unless you have something else under your belt, be it a teaching position or a tech job. If you are going to school to learn to be a lighting designer with the real world mentality that in order to work you will have to be a good technician and/or assistant LD and then be a designer, you have a chance. There is no way you can go to school, rack up 50k to 100k in debt, then expect to go work as an LD and live and pay your school off. It is nearly impossible to pay off that debt in any way and have a job in this industry. Some people do it, a lot of people don't. 

Sadly, because the market is flooded with BA and BFA "lighting designers" from XYZ schools, it is getting harder and harder to just walk onto a stage and learn. Possible, but not easy. Of course you can come through the rental shop or union route, that is still wide open. Around here though the union guys know how to unload a truck and put up a show out of said truck, so your not going to get ground up training there. 

Personally, I'm glad I'm not trying to make the college decision right now. With the amount of debt many people are leaving with it is really going to hurt our industry. If the OP can use the reserves to help alleviate that, more power to ya. It is extremely smart of you to be considering this now. Way too many people have no idea how much debt they get themselves into when they leave school.


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## shiben (Jun 2, 2013)

JChenault said:


> I don't agree with your point two IF you want to be a lighting designer. IMHO being a technician is something you can learn on the job. Learning how to design, understanding art history, being in a place where you can take artistic chances and fail are vital to developing as a designer. The real world does not usually have the kind of opportunities you need to develop as a designer.



What I see while working as a technician while going to school is something different yet in that area. This is my personal opinion, and is just based on what I see happening around me in the context of being a non-union freelance technician. That said: I dont think that it will be possible at all for technicians in head positions (crew chief, head rigger, head electrician, etc) to not have college degrees in a short time (by the end of the decade), and in not much longer being a technician in a position that pays well will also require a degree. I see the world we work in getting more and more "professionalized", getting more and more focused on OHS and best practice as opposed to "how its always been done", and more and more having a degree in anything makes you more employable than someone without a degree. While we are not quite there yet, I dont think that one will be able to be much more than a shop hand or box pusher without a degree or decades of experience by 2020 (not an unreasonable time to be planning for, if you join the reserves you will still be in the military at that point!). And as a designer, I dont see much way to get out of going to school unless you are doing rock and roll and hit in with a band at 18 and dont leave until you have a solid reputation. At all. 

Plus art school is fun, and you can totally do it without a massive amount of debt, and working in corporate or industrial areas will help get rid of that debt better than say, working in storefront theaters in Chicago as a career will do you. I am far happier at art school than I ever was trying to do theater while a history major or engineering major. Plus I am learning how to design and I work professionally in a decently well paying job as a freelancer (for a college student it pays amazingly, shockingly enough), I have a very good (and super interesting) internship I never would have gotten without college, and I know a lot of people who I will want to work with in the future. Its just the place to be man!


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## DuckJordan (Jun 2, 2013)

shiben said:


> What I see while working as a technician while going to school is something different yet in that area. This is my personal opinion, and is just based on what I see happening around me in the context of being a non-union freelance technician. That said: I dont think that it will be possible at all for technicians in head positions (crew chief, head rigger, head electrician, etc) to not have college degrees in a short time (by the end of the decade), and in not much longer being a technician in a position that pays well will also require a degree. I see the world we work in getting more and more "professionalized", getting more and more focused on OHS and best practice as opposed to "how its always been done", and more and more having a degree in anything makes you more employable than someone without a degree. While we are not quite there yet, I dont think that one will be able to be much more than a shop hand or box pusher without a degree or decades of experience by 2020 (not an unreasonable time to be planning for, if you join the reserves you will still be in the military at that point!). And as a designer, I dont see much way to get out of going to school unless you are doing rock and roll and hit in with a band at 18 and dont leave until you have a solid reputation. At all.
> 
> Plus art school is fun, and you can totally do it without a massive amount of debt, and working in corporate or industrial areas will help get rid of that debt better than say, working in storefront theaters in Chicago as a career will do you. I am far happier at art school than I ever was trying to do theater while a history major or engineering major. Plus I am learning how to design and I work professionally in a decently well paying job as a freelancer (for a college student it pays amazingly, shockingly enough), I have a very good (and super interesting) internship I never would have gotten without college, and I know a lot of people who I will want to work with in the future. Its just the place to be man!



I agree on the degree to a point but four years of college or for years on the job is equal at least in my area that is.

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## MPowers (Jun 3, 2013)

abomb123 said:


> ..........also fun note. Army has Army entertainment. you can actually apply for a LD or audio position and you get active duty pay while on tour. its only open to those in the army. I'm sure the navy(and marines) and air force have the same thing.



At the time I was in, '65-'69, The Corps had very little opportunity for "entertainment" positions. The Marine Corps Band being one of them. Not that the Corps is anti-entertainment, it's just that the Marines are a part of the Navy and those jobs/positions/MOS are all covered by the Navy. I don't know if that has changed in the last 40+ years or not.


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