# number of dimmers and channel capacity of high schools



## avkid (Oct 10, 2004)

i was just wondering what the average number of dimmers and the average lighting console in a high school were!

I have 140 dimmers and 2 60 channel scenemaster consoles (one sits in a box in the corner)


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## zac850 (Oct 10, 2004)

My school has 36 dimmers. Our board is the ETC Express 125. I'm going to try to get another few dimmers, because our 36 dimmers is not enough for the 65 instruments or so that we have.

EDIT: 3 of our dimmers are used for house light


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## JasonH (Oct 10, 2004)

I've got a 96 dimmer rack, and my houselights eat up 15 dimmers. 
I've got a 125 channel Strand GSX (24 submasters)


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## propmonkey (Oct 10, 2004)

we have 96 strand CD-80 our house uses 12. we use a strand 300, we also have a 300 in our little theatre with 12 i think 2.4k dimmer.


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## JP12687 (Oct 11, 2004)

100 dimmers with 12 being used for houselights(even thought 10 of those have no load right now because the custodians refuse to replace the house light bulbs!!!!) and then we have 2 boards....an ETC 48/96 express, and a colortran Inovator 96. We then also have a few smaller DMX control boards to control individual inteligent lights.


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## Nephilim (Oct 11, 2004)

The three school's I've been to:

Kingswood:
20 dimmers - 12ch board (originally a custom job that then died)

Acalanes:
Two stages:
Main:
72 dimmers
Express 48/96
Small Stage:
48 dimmers
Express 24/48

Torrey Pines:
48 dimmers
NSI MC7524 - 192ch DMX output, we limit it to 48 for faster response.


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## dj_illusions (Oct 11, 2004)

we have 64 dimmer channels, and have a jands event 48 in wide mode and a small 24 channel desk with its own dimmer rack that we use for small gigs or outside stuff. when the event and 5 racks are too much


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## The_Guest (Oct 11, 2004)

I feel proud, and I thought I had it bad...

298 ETC Sensor Rack Dimmers 

All in 3 sensor racks, along with a seperate processing rack handling dimmer network duties and the ETC Link/Net functions.

ETC Express 250, Express 72/144, and a (2) memory consoles controlling the worklights.

Express...
http://msnusers.com/techphotospeter/picsofmike.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=84

Dimmers...
http://msnusers.com/techphotospeter/picsofmike.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=98
http://msnusers.com/techphotospeter/picsofmike.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=99

Memory console...
http://msnusers.com/techphotospeter/picsofmike.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=81
http://msnusers.com/techphotospeter/picsofmike.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=86


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## PATech (Oct 11, 2004)

We have 275 ETC dimmers in our big (proscenium) theatre controlled by an ETC Expression 3. We have another 100 ETC dimmers in our black box controlled by an ETC Expression 1.


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## mbenonis (Oct 11, 2004)

We have around 108 dimmers in our proscenium stage (not including the 40 or so house light dimmers, individually controllable), and about 24 dimmers in our black box. Both systems are ETC Express systems (48/96 and 24/48 respectively)


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## soundman (Oct 11, 2004)

I want to say 194 for some reason.


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## propmonkey (Oct 11, 2004)

damn i feel small now.


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## zac850 (Oct 12, 2004)

propmonkey said:


> damn i feel small now.



Don't feel bad about the size of your rack. My rack is much smaller then yours. Yes it is annoying, yes I want to get a bigger rack, but its not the size that matters, its how you use it.

Dimmer rack. 

What did you think I was talking about?!!?


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## Les (Oct 21, 2004)

The High School I just Graduated from has 192 channels in their mainstage and 24 channels in the black box. 192 is quite sufficient, but I have been called in to design lights for Les Miserables (which I just completed) and I have managed to fill almost all the dimmers. (even on the electrics). They use an ETC Expression 3. The show's Tech-in lasted 15 hours and I wrote the last cue (#200) at 3:15am.
I believe that the 24 channels in the studio is a little skimpy. That system is controlled by an ETC Acclaim, but usually for big shows we would just bring down the Expression. In the community theatre where I work at, we run 192 channels as well, on a Colortran system. We have 2 ENR Racks, and a Colortran Status 24/48. We are hoping to upgrade to ETC Control (possibly Expression 3) in the very near future.


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Oct 21, 2004)

What are all you guys complaining about? We don't even have a rack at out school!  We have, I believe (correct me producer if I'm wrong) 12 channels!! CONTROLLED BY A STRAND AMX! How on EARTH did you convince your school to get 200 channels? or an Expression? Or INTELLIGENT LIGHTING???  Are house lights aren't even controlled by the dimmer! They are on a REGULAR light switch! And I guess that is a good thing, otherwise we'd have no channels left!

P.S. Are middle school is in the same building as our high school


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Oct 21, 2004)

propmonkey said:


> damn i feel small now.


 Are you kidding? Your house lights would take up OUR WHOLE DIMMER!!!!!


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## mr_sound (Oct 21, 2004)

12yearoldlightingdesigner said:


> What are all you guys complaining about? We don't even have a rack at out school!  We have, I believe (correct me producer if I'm wrong) 12 channels!! CONTROLLED BY A STRAND AMX! How on EARTH did you convince your school to get 200 channels? or an Expression? Or INTELLIGENT LIGHTING???  Are house lights aren't even controlled by the dimmer! They are on a REGULAR light switch! And I guess that is a good thing, otherwise we'd have no channels left!



I feel your pain. I've got 23 channels of dimming...on ADJ dimmers, so I can only put about 1000 watts on each channel. I've also got 4 more relay only channels...and 26 control channels from the board. I have ONE intelligent light, an ADJ pocket scan. Actually, I bought 2 at a steal on ebay, but UPS lost the second one, and it wasn't insured (insured incase they lose it? That's absurd), so I couldn't replace that one...and only having one gets washed out by all the other lights on stage. But that doesn't matter cuz I don't have enough channels to use that anyways.

The house lights are big halogen flood lights on the walls...on a regular switch of course. Of course the real problem is that I only have about 80 amps of power to work with.

But I'm a pro (despite my non-pro gear) so I needed to buy all this stuff myself...I didn't have a school to foot the bill. Once you HS and college kids get out into the real world, you're going to find out just how valuable credit cards are, hehe. Can't get a business loan? Just get a bunch of credit cards.


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## avkid (Oct 21, 2004)

and then be prepared to get into debt!!


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Oct 21, 2004)

We had to RENT a dimmer for west side story we did a few years back!


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## mr_sound (Oct 21, 2004)

avkid said:


> and then be prepared to get into debt!!



Well yeah...that's a given. Not many people get rich off of doing live sound or lighting. Somehow I doubt anyone around here is in it for the money.

Of course, running a live sound or lighting company is more than just knowing how to be good at what you do...you're also running a business. You need to be sure you can get enough work to pay off the gear you buy. But that's a topic for another thread.


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## who_touched_the_patch (Oct 24, 2004)

hehe... 12yo, you sound like me 2 years ago.

i was head tech for 4th form (year 10) and we only had 2 3-phase outlets underneath the box, which we ran jands fp12's from.

they were multicored to the FOH and wing batons and racks.

But THEN (and here's the fun part...) some smart-alec electrician had put another two 3-phase outlets ABOVE the stage... so we were bolting these rental racks to the ceiling and plugging lights directly in...

*sigh* ah the BAD old days...

now, after much petitiioning and explaining to the administration, we have four semi-permanent racks in a custom built rack room backstage.

four fp12wm's from jands, and one of their programmable racks (cant remember what its called.)

*Basically, just talk to the theatre coordinator and explain the limitations the current setup is having in your learning experience... or something like that.*

```
ps: whats the [ code ] tag for?
```


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## Peter (Oct 24, 2004)

Off topic, but I'll give my thoughts anyway:

I think the code tag is to be useful in forums that talk about computer languages, so that code examples do not get read and executed by the users' browser. I am not really sure if it has a huge use on these forums, but maybe it will be for me in a while when a teacher teaches me how to code a program to run DMX and possibly audio stuff. (He says he can do it, but I dont know if he knows what is really involved with doing that!) 

Anyways, that's just my thought.

Oh ya, I cant remeber if I already posted here or not, but my school has 96 dimmers for on stage, and another 13 for house lights. We have an ETC Express 48/96 board with 13 of the channels controling our house lights. We have a few dimmers patched to the same faders just because we nearly always use the two lights at the same time, and doing that is ALOT easier then having multiple screens of dimmers (i think this board can do a thousand dimmers or something like that).


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## sound_nerd (Dec 7, 2004)

bringing back an old topic, but here is what I had at high school. Most of you should feel very lucky to have what you've got. 
Main Stage:
24ch Strand CD-80
24/48 Strand MX console

Black Box: 
6ch NSI analog dimmer
6ch NSI analog controller

TV Studio:
4ch Elation relay pack
8ch Elation dimmer
AMDJ scenesetter 8 console (yay for crap...)


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## bdesmond (Dec 8, 2004)

2x96 dimmer Strand CD80SV racks. I believe there are around 130 circuits actually installed, so some room to expand on the racks. All the mdouels are 2.4kW. Stradn 300 control console, have an older LBX that was replaced last year as well.


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## moojoe (Dec 14, 2004)

our school has 112 or something dimmers. i dont know what model or company. the school bought them though in the 80's...used. so theyre bad. very bad. they light on fire about once a week. and mabe 50 of the circuits dont work. plus we cant bring anything over 65% or it will overheat. :roll:


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## falcon (Dec 20, 2004)

Wow! you are all lucky, my school has 24 digital dimmers, use to be 20 analog dimmers and 3 non-dims a year ago. And we have one additional dimmer for houselights, which is controlled by a dimming switch that you would find in a house. We also have a Leprecon 624 board. I can only put 1000 watts on each dimmer which makes the lighting for our upcoming production pretty crappy.


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## squigish (Dec 29, 2004)

*is jealous of all you 100+ folks*

My school has 48 1.2 kW L86 dimmers, but they have 15A circut breakers on them for no apparent reason. We have an ETC Idea 24 light board, which is basically a 24 channel 2-scene preset with a 120-cue memory. Our house lights are on their own analog system that doesn't work very well. Based on their behevior I think they're moterized autotransformers, but I'm not sure.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Dec 29, 2004)

Our theatre doesn't use any dimmers. Instead we use SCRimmer sticks and the Omega 2 board so we don't need the dimmers or the dimmer room.
~Nick


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Dec 29, 2004)

We don't have any dimmers in our school. We use SCRimmer sticks instead. By doing that if we want more lights all we have to do is plug in another stick and there is no huge dimmer room or anything like that. The software that our controler uses can handle upto 200lights, 1000 cues, 1000 effects and 10 Macros.
~Nick


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## producer (Jan 5, 2005)

12yearold. a correction is in order. We didnt HAVE to rent the dimmer, the LD decided taht 24 lights werent enough so he rented it. It was a 12 dimmer beast with u-ground. our system is twist lock. (not mad at you 12yearold, but i did work on that show from start to finish)


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## Kruton (Jan 28, 2005)

Well fortuatly I have a colortran D192 3 Phase Dimming system (The school has a soft neutral though, so all sound and lighting board are on conditionars and batterys. 

I have 98 fully wired dimmer about 6 spare, and 12 indpendent from lighting board house light dimmers.

I got to say, I am glad for what i have for a 500 seat audt, and I routinely use all channels


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## theothergreg587 (Jan 29, 2005)

Man everyone of you are lucky my school has an REALLY OLD analog board w/ only around 20 dimmers and 2 Non dim swiches also we have 3 dimmers for house lights. . . .plus it is a patch board system and if u patch too many lights in teh breakers for the dimmers pop . . . .also all teh dimmers stick maybe ill take pictures and post them


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## freshmantech (Jan 29, 2005)

*CCHS Stage Lighting*

We have two stages at our school.

Mainstage:

132 dimmers - plus one aux solid state dimmer (for projectors and solid "on/off" devices)
132 channels - 10 for house light control - 4 of them not working due to blown lamps
all channels are double - for x lighting on both the 3 electrics and 2 cats
ETC Express 48/96

Lab "black box that's not a box" theatre:
12 ch dimmer pack
24 plugs - split off to 2 plugs @ each spot
i don't remember the board's exact name (i'm a sound / design tech) but it is a 2 scene preset with 24 channel control

our school does have quite a lot for a HS though...both in our lighting inventory (150 total insturments) and board...i'm quite proud of the Express.


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## Roger (Feb 1, 2005)

At my high school we had 50 in our mainstage (5 for houselight 9 for permanantly rigged striplights) and 11 in our black box.

At uta we have 150 in our mainstage and 101 in our black box. heres a rough count of insturments in case anyone cares. 
25- 25-50 s4 zooms
30- 15-30 s4 zooms
10- 19' s4s
5- 36' s4s
25- s4 parnells
15- 8' fresnels
at least 30 new 6" altman fresnels
25- 6x12 ellipsoidals
25- 6x9 ellipsoidals
at least 10- scoops of various sizes
There are some cyc lights, strip lights, minis and things like that also. 

not trying to show anyone up here, because im willing to bet that the majority of the people on here have a better sound system than we do.


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Feb 5, 2005)

Sorry producer, I regret the mistakes!!


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## Trolley01 (Feb 7, 2005)

So far it is sounding like my school is a little bit behind the times!!!  

Have only got 24 channels of dimming, only 20 fully working though, on a early 1980's Horizon hard wired rack......

Combine that with a single scene 24 channel manual desk that doesn't even support dmx........

I think it's time I asked for some money. 

I woudn't mind 96 channels of dimming and an ETC Obsession.......


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## great_beyond (Feb 7, 2005)

our school has 96 dimmers. 16 of which are not cabled to anywhere/ and our house lights use their own stpuid dimmers which are a pain more than anything. and we have a Lehigh Millenium Board, which is crap.

so to recap
96 dimmers/ 72 work
house lights suck
board is crap


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Feb 7, 2005)

12yearoldlightingdesigner said:


> What are all you guys complaining about? We don't even have a rack at out school!  We have, I believe (correct me producer if I'm wrong) 12 channels!! CONTROLLED BY A STRAND AMX! How on EARTH did you convince your school to get 200 channels? or an Expression? Or INTELLIGENT LIGHTING???  Are house lights aren't even controlled by the dimmer! They are on a REGULAR light switch! And I guess that is a good thing, otherwise we'd have no channels left!
> 
> P.S. Are middle school is in the same building as our high school



Are we forgetting somthing here? 8O


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## wemeck (Feb 7, 2005)

330 ETC Sensor Rack Dimmers with an ETC Insight 2x, our sister school has about the same amount of dimmers and an ETC Obsession II.


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## Jamie (Feb 8, 2005)

*hate to burst a bubble*

Our regular proscenium theater has 289 dimmers not including worklites and houselights. However, we have a  ColorTran board that i just despise with all my being. We're trying to get and Expression, but the school board here sux.
In our studio theater, we got about 48 dimmers, but have to bring in the board from main theater to work 'em. Old one shut down and fried.  
In the student ministry center at my chruch, we have about 48 dimmers as well, however each is wired at about 135 V so my patch is all screwed up. But, we got an ETC Express 24/48, and i luv the sucka. We use two of our dimmers for the intels cuz they're fixed at 120 V.
Overall the mass of dimmers at school balance out with the sweet board + intels at church :roll: .


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## Poshul (Feb 15, 2005)

no idea how many channels but we do have a great museum piece for a dimmer, an old SCRimmer from 1969 ancient and sparks when adjusted. Any want pics of it?

However for some unknown reason we have a ETC express 48/96. Nice board but attatched to junk so we are limited


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## 12yearoldlightingdesigner (Feb 15, 2005)

I'd love to get some pics of it! Never seen a dimmer that old!


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## wemeck (Feb 16, 2005)

Poshul said:


> no idea how many channels but we do have a great museum piece for a dimmer, an old SCRimmer from 1969 ancient and sparks when adjusted. Any want pics of it?
> 
> However for some unknown reason we have a ETC express 48/96. Nice board but attatched to junk so we are limited



Before the remodel, SIU at Carbondale had a similar situation. An ETC Expression attached to a large patch panel with 88 8.8KW Varie-Lite dimmers. So soft-patch was a dream. It was like having a Ferrari Steering wheel in a Ford Festiva.

It was even worse for me because I was reared during high school on a Kliegl Performer III system.


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## hans44 (Feb 28, 2005)

great_beyond said:


> our school has 96 dimmers. 16 of which are not cabled to anywhere/ and our house lights use their own stpuid dimmers which are a pain more than anything. and we have a Lehigh Millenium Board, which is crap.
> 
> so to recap
> 96 dimmers/ 72 work
> ...



At my school, we use the Lehigh Millenium board (96 dimmers) and it is the BEST board in our entire COUNTY. Considering the local Catholic Private school is still running an AMX 12 channel/2 scene (X/Y) board (that is probably from the late 70s), we consider ourselves lucky to have a board that is as VERSATILE as the Lehigh Millenium. I think someone needs to sit down and read the manual :roll:


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## fosstech (Mar 21, 2006)

New system we got last summer:

ETC Express 48/96
ETC Sensor SR48 with 88 D20 dimmers, 66 on stage, a couple spares and the rest on house lights. Yes our house is BRIGHT...about 50 250w cans over about 275 seats :shock:

Lighting inventory:

22 - S4 26 degree (575W HPL)
9 - S4 36 degree (575w HPL)
16 - Colortran 6" Fresnel (750w BTN)
3 - 3 cell L&E Runt Cyclights (750w EJG)
and possibly 12 donated 1980's Strand/Century R40 borderlights from my old school who may be getting rid of them.


Compared to our old system, we're leaps and bounds better now! Old system consisted of a complete Electro-Controls analog system straight from 1972 with 13 30A dimmers and 2 60A dimmers, a complete patch panel (sliders), and a board that barely had two presets working. And complete with EC asbestos-corded instruments! Thankfully those are all gone now...they looked like flashlights compared to the S4.


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## MircleWorker (Mar 21, 2006)

I have 384 Dimmers. The light board has three universes of 512ea, and 600 channels.


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## gafftaper (Mar 22, 2006)

My old high school had 
-36 2.4k's in the little theater
-Around 120 2.4k's in the big auditorium... although I could only find about 70 channels worth of outlets. Never figured out what the other 50 cirucuits were for. 

Originally had a 24 channel and a 48 channel Two Scene presets boards to run the two spaces. But I mangaged to get an Express 24/48 through a grant after a year or two. 

Currently ending the design phase and begining two years of construction for a college blackbox. It'll have around 200 circuits and a $20K board... I'm drooling.


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## Hughesie (Mar 22, 2006)

ok i dunno how many dimmers we have but we have one of the oldest digital desks 

axiom 36 

yep 

pretty sad


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## soundlight (Mar 22, 2006)

We just got some of the power supplies replaced in our dimmers, so we're finally up to 24 dimmers. Once the last power supply is replaced, we'll have 32. All of them are 2.4kW. And the house lights are flourescents, all controlled straight through the breakerbox back stage.


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## AVGuyAndy (Mar 22, 2006)

22 Hub H-6000 Dimmers. (6kw each)

4 for the house.
2 don't work.
Phone-operator style patchboard
Old Analog Desk.


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## koncept (Mar 22, 2006)

some of you have more than my current college....

my primary high school has 112 stage lights (96 x 2.4 kv sld dimmer rack & 2 6 plug 3 phase dimmer strip things (permenantly attached)) 4 house dimmers in a separate rack strand environ system

strand 300 console 125 chans. i love that system

my second high school analoge cd 80 pack 12 total dimmers with house on a regular light switch. old strand board (looks like a gsx if i remember right)


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## gabe (Mar 23, 2006)

Right now, I have 15/30 dimmers working on an ancient century lighting system(complete with patchboard). In our new theatre, I'll have 2 96 cd 80 racks and a 300 series.


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## soundman (Apr 1, 2006)

this might be of intrest... http://www.etcconnect.com/websplash/survey_article.pdf


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Apr 1, 2006)

Hello All

At our school we have around 170 portable dimmers and a board that can handle upto 512 channels. Too bad its falling apart though.

~Nick


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## audioslavematt (Apr 5, 2006)

We have 150 CD-80 dimmers, an IPS dimmer strip right in front of the proscenium between the clouds for top light (normally par 64s), and a single IPS dimmer strip (I think it was a demo model or something), and a portable CD-80 pack with 20(?) more dimmers that we normally take to the cafeteria for dances and other things. The houselights have their own dimmer rack and to be honest, I have no idea how many dimmers are in there. We have 3 DMX512 universes for effects and intelligent lights, but our dimmers are AMX. We have to use the AMX outs on our Strand 520i or a convertor box.


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## Foxinabox10 (Apr 6, 2006)

We have the following:

16 in our Catwalk
6 for our booms in the House
16 for 1st Electric
16 for 2nd Electric
12 for Cyc Electric
6 in Backstage Panels
4 in Stage Pockets
14 for House Lights

And 2 that are not wired anywhere (i don't know why).

We have a R40 strips that take up 4 dimmers on the first and second electrics, each. We are forced to keep these plugged in all the time, as the stage is used for some band and chorus functions.

We are constantly running out of dimmers and I wish we had so many more, but we're a public high school that has their priorities screwed up, so what do you expect.


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## kingfisher1 (Apr 6, 2006)

Okay, this is gong to sound nuts, but in a blue moon its nice to only have fifty dimmers. it makes you think out side the box as far as design goes. with that said i could definately go for mor dimmers. I know thta they are a hassle to cable and everythng but i'm sortof fond of our schools three backpack dimmers. its nice to bring the dimmer to the light rather then the other way around.


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## zac850 (Apr 6, 2006)

kingfisher1 said:


> Okay, this is gong to sound nuts, but in a blue moon its nice to only have fifty dimmers. it makes you think out side the box as far as design goes. with that said i could definately go for mor dimmers. I know thta they are a hassle to cable and everythng but i'm sortof fond of our schools three backpack dimmers. its nice to bring the dimmer to the light rather then the other way around.



Their accutly not backpack dimmers. Backpack dimmers are tiny one circuct dimmers that clamp directly to the yoke of the fixture (remmeber, we used them at gala verson 1.0). We have 5 shoe box dimmers that we clamp to the pipes. 

The more you know


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## kingfisher1 (Apr 6, 2006)

okay, lets get nitpicky


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## lightguy2k6 (Apr 16, 2006)

We have a Colortran 192 with about 130 dimmers.
It runs off of a Horizon Control console with 512 channels.


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## mackem_techie (May 8, 2006)

****, i knew ours was limited but...
we have 24 channels on 4 strand dimmers from the 80's. one of them is 7200W and the other 3 are 4800W. the houselights are controlled by an analogue dimming unoit hidden in the corner. only a few times have i ever needed to hire in extra dimming support and that was still only one extra six channel dimmer at the most, our thatre is tiny and most of our gear is hundreds of years old, but now we are getting a new theatre. the new one will have 196 channels on new strand digital dimmers and the houselights will also be digital, I CANT WAIT!!!!  

the current lighting board is a strand 300, but the new one is likely to be a strand 500, depending on what the tecaher in control of stagecrew thinks of the demo.


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## koncept (May 8, 2006)

that should be nice. I really like the strand dimmers and boards. I would not mind trying out a 500 series but for movers the hog 500's are nice if you only have a few MLs. Let us know what you think of the 500 if you get a chance to try it while its on load to demo


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## DarSax (May 8, 2006)

32 dimmers, I forget what make (If electro-controls made dimmers when they still existed, then they're EC dimmers. At any rate, they's at least 26 years old), 31-ish of which work, along with 4 ND's. 

Sockets numbered 1-120, which repeat 2-3 times arbitrarily on the electrics (lighting nightmare). 

Hard-patch Electro-Controls patch bay, with individual plastic sliders for each socket designation.

Dimmers are controlled by a faulty Strand MX-24, with 1 universe of control capability. ND's are controlled by toggle switches on the desk. (The original-original lighting board was built into the desk itself). 

We also have perims controlled by buttons built into the actual desk. They're technically on a dimmer, but they "decide" how and when they want to dim. (There are three sliders, and "on" "off" and "dim" buttons. The "dim" button has a mind of its own.) We also have mercury vapors, which are turned on by turning a key in a lock (why not?) built into the wall. 

Also have work lights, regular incand's over the stage. Control those via a circuit breaker (but of course)

Auditorium seats 1200. 

All in all, it's ew.


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## mackem_techie (May 8, 2006)

koncept said:


> Let us know what you think of the 500 if you get a chance to try it while its on load to demo



yeah, im guna check tomoro nite [im working on "cigarettes and chocolate", which is on tomoro nite and wednesday nite] with him to see if i will be allowed to have a play when the demo arrives, im sure i will cos hes really good. 

on an unrelated topic, if i wanted to do this professionally, which i do, would i be better having a degree in electronics, electrical engineering or computer science or does it not matter?


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## koncept (May 8, 2006)

i belive there is a theatre related degree (BFA - bachelors of fine arts), but personaly im going for a degree in CS with a minor in technical theatre


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## mackem_techie (May 8, 2006)

ok that sounds cool [CS is comp science yeah?]
is the theatre related degree respected in the industry though? or is it worth just going for CS or elec. engineering with minors in tech theatre


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## BenjaminD (May 8, 2006)

I have two Strand CD-80SV's both with 96 dimmer capabities. The first rack is almost loaded with dual-light 2.4 KW dimmers (it's missing two). The houselight rack could also HOLD 96 dimmers, but it only has 6 5.something KW dimmers in it.

The main rack is controlled by a Strand 300 series 24/96 console, and the houselights are controlled by various architectural controls scattered around the auditorium; at least until I can get a female to male DMX adapter and plug them into my main console.


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## Lightingguy32 (May 17, 2006)

3 Racks of 20A dimmers:
Rack one has 48 Lighting demensions 2.4Kw Dimmers
Rack Two: 12D20 ETC Sensor Modules (2.4Kw/dimmer:24dimmers)
Rack Three: 6D20 ETC Sensor Modules (2.4Kw/dimmer:12dimmers)
Control is an ETC Express 24/48
12 Dimmers for Cieling Spots,
12 For Fresnels (first Electric)
12x3(12/Borderlight bar)
12 Dimmers for all house lights
1 Dimmer for all wall/floor pockets (what kind of idiot wired the floor pockets)
several spares and several dead dimmer modules in the Lighting dimensions rack


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## Felix (May 18, 2006)

Strand CD-80 2.4 x 96 For instruments
Strand DE-90 Digital Environ dedicated for houselights


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## GRCHSCAW (May 21, 2006)

Our school has just about 300 dimmers.


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## DarSax (May 21, 2006)

GRCHSCAW said:


> Our school has just about 300 dimmers.


*hellfire*


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## mackem_techie (May 21, 2006)

300?!?!?!? how the hell!!!
why did u steal all my dimmers? dimmer theif! 

man some people are so lucky


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## LDSFX (May 31, 2006)

We have over 300 in our mainstage. Control is via an Expression 3 with Emphasis/WYSIWYG tie in. We also have 6 Mac 300s, 6 Mac 250s, 2 VL1000s, and 10 Color RAM Scrollers.


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## soundlight (May 31, 2006)

It's amazing that high schools can pour that much money in to theater. My school has 32 dimmers and a hardpatch. And 30-year-old asbestos-tailed fixtures. It just doesn't make sense that a high school would have that much lighting equipment.


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## koncept (May 31, 2006)

I am with you on this one soundlight. i am wondering if people are posting information about their colleges instead of high school and if they are confusing circuits with dimmers because that is alot of equipment and money being put into the high school theatres other wise


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## soundlight (May 31, 2006)

My thoughts exactly. We have 102 circuits, but they are only tied in to 32 dimmers. I also thought the college thing too. I know that even my college that i'm going to only has four intels, but it has 384 dimmers. Controlled by an obsession 750, obsession ML, and obsession Remote Console. I can't wait!


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## koncept (May 31, 2006)

I do not know what my next college has, but my previous has a hog 500 for the 10 scrollers we have and the 12 intels (4 tbeams, 6 studio colors, 2 studio spots) and an etc express 250 controlling about 135 (there are several dead ones) dimmers on 270 something circuits

*hopes the next one has more*


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## PhantomD (Jun 3, 2006)

36 dimmers and a 36/72 control.


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## jonhirsh (Jun 3, 2006)

Ok so back in Highschool i had a theatre that had 24 dimmers and a Jands Esp II but it also has a coupple 400 amp disconnects that i installed. Therefore for Productions we would bring in consoles and more dimmers and movers and distros. So it was all really temporary. But very expandable. 

I am a huge beliver in renting and never buying thats why i went with that model in the construction of the theatre. As fore my college theatres i have no clue mostly cause i dont care. 

JH


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## BillESC (Jun 5, 2006)

I'm long long out of high school, but do work frequently in the local middle school auditorium which seats 500.

We have 196 ENR dimmers controlled via a 24/48 Status board.


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## lighttechie5948 (Dec 2, 2007)

we have 125 dimmers, and run them off of a Express 74/144, so 240 channels.

11 dimmers are for house


the middle school has 96 dimmers, run off a strand 500 series (no moving lights though???) 7 dims for the house


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## SerraAva (Dec 2, 2007)

In my High School we had three racks of Colortran I-96 series, based off of ETC's Sensors. Look the same actually. For control, ETC Express 48/96. In the smaller theatre, its an old analog 24 rack of I forget what, with a couple of NSI dimmer packs. Control is a Leprecon 1524 for the analogs and NSI 16x2 for the packs. Worlds apart to say the least.


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## punktech (Dec 2, 2007)

my college has well over 100, we have dimmer-per-circuit and we have numbers around 200 on our circuits. i've never actually counted, i know approximately how many lights we can fit comfortably in each position so i've never really cared to check the actual data.


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## Footer (Dec 2, 2007)

lighttechie5948 said:


> we have 125 dimmers, and run them off of a Express 74/144, so 240 channels.
> 11 dimmers are for house
> the middle school has 96 dimmers, run off a strand 500 series (no moving lights though???) 7 dims for the house



A strand 500 in a middle school??? Thats a bit of overkill!


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## thebikingtechie (Dec 3, 2007)

I actually don't know the excact number of dimmers in my current schools theatre. It can't be over 20 and but the circuit are twofered across the room 
(it's a black box), and then there are some weird combinations that I haven't gotten a chance to map out. I'm just waiting until my director lets me get a ladder out, the actors kind of own the place. 

We run it all from an a old Strand LBX console that I think has some stuff seriously wrong with it.

My old school had 24 Electronic Diversifieds in the auditorium, run from an ETC Smart Fade. 

I don't remember the exact count in the theatre, I actually didn't spend too much time there, we only did three plays a year two of which ran together. And the TD was kind of a bumbling fool, who wanted to work at the school so he read through a book about lighting and was hired. He still references back to the book when he needs to do design work.

The small assembly hall/drama room has 12. It was fine except the dimmers were combined with the circuits into three little boxes around the room, and the way they were placed and pointed up I had to reach around blindly to find the right circuit. I then got to block one of the many secondary entrances sometimes with the little 24 fader analog board on my lap.


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## derekleffew (Dec 3, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Dimmer-per-circuit... WHAT A WASTE! We only use about 2/3rds of our circuits at any given time....Psht.


Charc, I sincerely hope you're kidding. If not, we have more to teach you about the economics of installing a patch panel. I've seen some installations where they "cheaped out" and installed "Air Flow Modules" instead of dimmers filling up the racks. PITA--having to go to the dimmer room and move modules around every time you hang a new show. The labor it takes is easily offset by just filling the rack with dimmers.

And to stay on topic, my high school had two Luxtrol Sixpacks, that's 12 1.2Kw dimmers mastered by 2 7.2Kw autotransformer dimmers. We also had two resistance plate dimmers, so a grand total of 16, for a 1200 seat auditorium, with "airwalls" to close off the back two "lecture halls." Very forward thinking for 1974.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 3, 2007)

Highschool we had 5, 6 x 1.2Kw Rosco IPS Dimmer Strips, and a Strand GSX for control.

College, we've got a full dimmer rack in the hundreds. What a wonder dimmer-per-circuit is, and our theatre has positions seemingly everywhere, and a large amount of floor pockets. The first electric has not a single repeating circuit, and where circuits do repeat, they only do so once. So, at the most you have the same circuit available in two different locations, which is actually not so bad. Before I got here they had to move around dimmers like Derek described, NOT a fun job.

Just to go off topic more, the brand new Detroit School for the Arts is sad when you consider it was build four years ago. Alot of available distro options, but poor circuiting. The catwalks have a plethora or circuits, many more than I felt was necessary. The on-stage electrics, however, had, if my memory recalls, the same 8 circuits repeating four times. Really had to think when I did a lighting plot there. I can understand, why, after doing a show there, people like Derek still extol the virtues of a hard-patch panel. 

However, repeating circuits seem cool when you end up in a space where the circuits are the same on each side of the stage. Was in another Detroit highschool where the onstage electrics were something like 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, from stage left to right. Hard to do seperation of source! Mind you this is one of the premier, top dollar (I mean we're talking 5 figures), private educational instituitions in Metro Detroit.

There was also the highschool we rented once that was clearly designed to work with RGBW strips, and that is indeed what they used. So, on each electric, four circuits designated to the strips, and maybe 5 others for specials and area lighting. Actually, the theatre was rather well thought out, considering it was built in the early 60's. All this older style make one appreciate dimmer-per-circuit. 

And Charc, extra dimmers are a blessing from Thespis. You ought to find a way to use them, we'll help.


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## derekleffew (Dec 3, 2007)

gafftapegreenia, I think you mis-understood. I was not "extolling the virtues" of a patch panel, I was saying they make no economic sense, and haven't for about 25 years.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 3, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> gafftapegreenia, I think you mis-understood. I was not "extolling the virtues" of a patch panel, I was saying they make no economic sense, and haven't for about 25 years.


 
My mistake.


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## derekleffew (Dec 3, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> ...
> I think my main gripe with our dimmer-per-circuit system is not the concept of dimmer-per circuit, but the circuit map (correct term?) chosen by whoever renovated our theatre. I don't need a total of 10 circuits circuits for a lighting position that can fit one instrument, or two if you use right arms and squeeze things in. I don't need even need 3 circuits for that position. But If you add up these positions, it's 26 circuits for enough space for 4 instruments. Yep, that was smart planning. Also, There are some more similar lighting positions I have no idea why the planners didn't give circuits. Grr.


 gafftapegreenia, de nada. Charc, I understand your pain. Take some comfort in the fact that almost every theatre in which I've worked, I have thought the circuit distribution should be different. I've found theatres with a good theatre consultant to be better than ones without. Remember that system planners are only guessing where they think you will place instruments, and sometimes some guesses are better than others. Perhaps you could consider running cable from where you have too many circuits to where you don't have enough, on a semi-permanent basis? As for your thought that you have too many dimmers and not enough fixtures, remember that it's easier to add fixtures than dimmers. Infrastructure first!


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## cutlunch (Dec 3, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> gafftapegreenia, I think you mis-understood. I was not "extolling the virtues" of a patch panel, I was saying they make no economic sense, and haven't for about 25 years.



I disagree with this statement .

What do you base the idea they make no economic sense on?

Here in New Zealand we have theatres with both patch panels and dimmer per circuit setups.
A school theatre I worked in that was new two years ago had a patch panel installed. There were over two hundred circuit outlets but only 96 dimmer channels. In NZ dollars 12 dimmer channels cost over $2000 each. So that is over $18,000 for the 96 dimmer channels. But because we had a patch panel this rig is a lot more flexible. Later if they want to add more dimmer channels they just throw in another pack. They don't have to rewire lighting bars.

I agree with some of the other posts patch panels can be done wrongly. Such as duplicating circuits in wrong places.
But a well designed patch setup is a joy to work on.
One of the problems with a dimmer per outlet setup particulary in schools is if the dimmer channel fails you completely loose that circuit. Whereas on a patch panel you just plug that circuit into another dimmer channel.

Also if you are doing dimmer per circuit you are likely have less circuits available to use then when you spend the money on patch panel. I think it is better to give more circuit positions that are usable to a school theatre then limit it to only the number of dimmer channels you can afford at installation.

An amatuer theatre I work in (100 seater) has a very good patch system except for the bar furtherst from the stage the bars have 14 circuits. Quite often you won't use all the circuits on one bar for individual channels. So quite often if we have pairs of lights we don't pair them up on the bar but back at the patch panel. It keeps the bars tidier. It also gives greater flexibility if you decide to separate the lights out. It also helps fault finding.

If patch panels don't make economic sense then the price of your dimmer channels must be dirt cheap. Please post some figures so I can follow your arguement.


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## Pie4Weebl (Dec 3, 2007)

Something I saw a few weekends ago which made me green with envy. Purdue Universitie's theatre has 500 dimmers and 40 various flavors of mac2k's...


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## STEVETERRY (Dec 3, 2007)

avkid said:


> i was just wondering what the average number of dimmers and the average lighting console in a high school were!
> I have 140 dimmers and 2 60 channel scenemaster consoles (one sits in a box in the corner)




For interesting dimmer statistics, I have attached a link for the ETC Load Survey. It does not speak to number of dimmers in a system, but has a lot of interesting data about connected loads in different markets.
_
What's Connected?_

ST


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## gafftaper (Dec 4, 2007)

Thanks Steve that's a really interesting article. I think it makes an important point to what Charc's question. While the survey found that only 17% of the dimmers aren't being used, most of the ones being used could be half the size. Freeing up money and getting Charc more instruments. It makes a lot of sense in typical high school dimmer per circuit installs to go with 1.2k's and save the money for other gear.


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## gafftaper (Dec 4, 2007)

On the other hand Charc patch panels aren't cheap either. I looked into going with one rack of 2.4k's and a patch panel vs two racks of 2.4k's. Patch panels aren't cheap and still require a ton of labor to install so the end result was very little savings.


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## STEVETERRY (Dec 4, 2007)

gafftaper said:


> Thanks Steve that's a really interesting article. I think it makes an important point to what Charc's question. While the survey found that only 17% of the dimmers aren't being used, most of the ones being used could be half the size. Freeing up money and getting Charc more instruments. It makes a lot of sense in typical high school dimmer per circuit installs to go with 1.2k's and save the money for other gear.




The problem is that a 20A SCR dimmer is only fractionally more expensive than a 10A SCR dimmer.

And, the NEC will not let you wire a branch circuit with smaller than 14AWG wire, so you don't get much back from that either!

Now, when you go to Sine Wave dimmers, the savings is huge from 20A to 10A.

ST


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## derekleffew (Dec 5, 2007)

Anyone know what a "modern" patch panel in the US looks like? I'm guessing 200 male 10' 12/3 SO cables with 2P&G plugs hanging out of boxes and 96 flushmount receptacles mounted in adjacent boxes? STEVETERRY, would the circuits need individual breakers per the NEC? (Like the Telephone Operator and Slider Patch panels used to have?) And would it be possible to mix 1.2Kw and 2.4Kw dimmers in such a system? How about some 6.0Kw dimmers, I'm sure those would require branch circuit breakers. Or if the males and females both were 60A-2P&G would that not require BCBs?

The cost of the above could exceed the cost of another 96x2.4Kw rack, including labor and materials, hence my opinion of patch panels not being economical or viable. Maybe BillESC could comment also.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 5, 2007)

Hmmm, but then I think of spaces such as our studio theatre. I don't know exact numbers, but I know we have a large number of circuits and not even nearly as many dimmers, it's an old Kliegl analog system. In our case, wouldn't it be economically reasonable to install a new DMX dimmer rack and a patch panel to use the existing circuits, or would it be better to just re-wire the entire studio? What if we brought in a "touring rack" and patched into that? Of course, the concern would be how much power we have in the first place. 


I should also get some pics of the main TV studio on campus. A grid full of scoops and Mole-Richardson fresnels, and an old EC slider patch baby!


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## derekleffew (Dec 5, 2007)

So do you have an existing Kliegl Safe-T-Patch patch panel? Or is there no patch panel and circuits are just duplicated a bunch? If the later, cost to rewire would be high, higher than the dimmer rack cost most likely. Talking SCR dimmers here, not sine-wave. As for a touring rack, installed dimmers are always cheaper, unless you want to upgrade incrementally. Are the Kliegl dimmers (R77?) failing? Has the control been upgraded or are you still using the 5 scene preset? And list quantities and sizes of dimmers, just for fun. Every Kliegl installation I've seen using analog dimmers had an unexplainable quantity of dimmer distribution. Inquiring minds want to know. And post pictures, you know how I love pictures.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 5, 2007)

I'll get your specs and pics! There are 2P&G patch cables, and a patch panel. The board is a 2-scene preset with 24 faders for each scene. I *believe* it's analog. I have not had trouble myself, but I have heard from other users that the dimmers have issues.


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## BillESC (Dec 5, 2007)

Dimmer per circuit vs. patch panels. Old argument with currently no new answers.

Just as every venue is different and every venues budget is different either method has its' place.

Example:

In a 60 seat dinner theatre I was asked to help in I found six Lightronics 4 - 1.2kW circuit dimmer packs in various locations across the ceiling. Some circuits had instruments plugged directly into the packs, some circuits had orange cords of up to 50' running to a fixture that happened to near a different pack. The place was a mess.

We stripped the ceiling and mounted all six packs next to the breaker panel back stage. We then created circuit cables to the first, second, third and FOH pipes, 48 in all. The 48 circuit tails hang next to the dimmer packs. In essence this is a patch panel system.

One town over is the middle school auditorium which has 196 - 2.4kW circuits and is dimmer per circuit. I design for both and both have their merits.


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## STEVETERRY (Dec 5, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> Anyone know what a "modern" patch panel in the US looks like? I'm guessing 200 male 10' 12/3 SO cables with 2P&G plugs hanging out of boxes and 96 flushmount receptacles mounted in adjacent boxes? STEVETERRY, would the circuits need individual breakers per the NEC? (Like the Telephone Operator and Slider Patch panels used to have?) And would it be possible to mix 1.2Kw and 2.4Kw dimmers in such a system? How about some 6.0Kw dimmers, I'm sure those would require branch circuit breakers. Or if the males and females both were 60A-2P&G would that not require BCBs?
> The cost of the above could exceed the cost of another 96x2.4Kw rack, including labor and materials, hence my opinion of patch panels not being economical or viable. Maybe BillESC could comment also.




Any male pigtails or flush mount connectors that feed permanent building wiring must have a circuit breaker, per NEC section 520.50 Road Show Connection Panel. This is the case even if they are going to plug into a female outlet (presumably on a portable dimmer system or on the patch panel itself) that is already protected by a circuit breaker of the right ampacity.

One you figure in the cost of this breaker, additional dimmers are often cheaper than a patch panel.


ST


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## SteveB (Dec 5, 2007)

STEVETERRY said:


> Any male pigtails or flush mount connectors that feed permanent building wiring must have a circuit breaker, per NEC section 520.50 Road Show Connection Panel. This is the case even if they are going to plug into a female outlet (presumably on a portable dimmer system or on the patch panel itself) that is already protected by a circuit breaker of the right ampacity.
> One you figure in the cost of this breaker, additional dimmers are often cheaper than a patch panel.
> ST



Agreed. 

I believe it was Sonny Sonnenfeld who wrote a Theater Crafts or Lighting Dimensions article way back in the early 80's, detailing exactly what Steve is indicating, that at that time, it was now more cost effective to so Dimmer-Per-Circuit as opposed to a patch panel. Sonny worked for Strand at the time and was mostly comparing the custom lighting manufacturer built patch panels (Of which the Kliegl Safe-T-Patch as an expensive version).

I cannot imagine what with the cost of copper these days, as well as the labor for a licensed electrician paid by the hour, that any type of SOOW/multiple circuit breaker/with lots of 2P&G connectors, etc... patch panel is going to be cheaper then all hardwired dimmers. Building one is moving in the wrong direction, IMO.

Steve B.


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## cutlunch (Dec 5, 2007)

I agree that if you have to have a circuit breaker on patch circuit it would get expensive. 
Here in New Zealand this doesn't seem to apply. Which I think is logical because a patch circuit never has power on it until you connect a power source such as a dimmer. Where is the circuit breaker right, at the patch panel end or down near the stage end? If its right at the patch panel I think this is over kill as you have two protection devices right next to each other. Provided the wire you used for the patch lead is rated for a higher current then is supplied by the dimmer this should increase the safety factor.
If I was getting a new installation done with dimmer per channel but I knew I might add more dimmers later I would get the wiring done for the possible extra dimmers at the start. I am not sure if this would be legal in the states. But If I thought I might double the number of dimmers later I would have double the circuits wired to the bars now. It will be cheaper on a electricians time to make twice the circuit outlets on a bar now then have to come back and haul extra wire into the lighting bar later. These circuits would be marked as not working and the wire ends would be secured with enough spare length to be wired to the extra dimmers later and put in some space out of the way ie the roof space above the dimmers. If you didn't upgrade for a few years you would have saved some money by having it done when things are cheaper. Also you could add one pack at a time as you get the money. This is instead of waiting until you had enough new dimmer circuits to justify the cost of having to rewire all the bars.
With you having to have all those circuit breakers on a patch panel I can see the cost problem. This has been an interesting discussion and thanks for putting me straight on how you have to do things in the States.


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## SteveB (Dec 5, 2007)

cutlunch said:


> I agree that if you have to have a circuit breaker on patch circuit it would get expensive.
> Here in New Zealand this doesn't seem to apply. Which I think is logical because a patch circuit never has power on it until you connect a power source such as a dimmer. Where is the circuit breaker right, at the patch panel end or down near the stage end? If its right at the patch panel I think this is over kill as you have two protection devices right next to each other. Provided the wire you used for the patch lead is rated for a higher current then is supplied by the dimmer this should increase the safety factor."
> 
> US systems in olden tymes might typically have dimmers rated at 1.2kw, 2.4kw, 3.6kw, 4.0kw, 7.2kw and/or 12.0kw. The dimmers would have over current protection sized to the capacity of the dimmer.
> ...



I think there can certainly be scenarios where a locally built patch panel can be the only cost effective solution. I always recommend (not that anybody asks) that monies be found to do DPC.

SB


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## STEVETERRY (Dec 5, 2007)

cutlunch said:


> I agree that if you have to have a circuit breaker on patch circuit it would get expensive.
> Here in New Zealand this doesn't seem to apply. Which I think is logical because a patch circuit never has power on it until you connect a power source such as a dimmer. Where is the circuit breaker right, at the patch panel end or down near the stage end? If its right at the patch panel I think this is over kill as you have two protection devices right next to each other. Provided the wire you used for the patch lead is rated for a higher current then is supplied by the dimmer this should increase the safety factor.
> If I was getting a new installation done with dimmer per channel but I knew I might add more dimmers later I would get the wiring done for the possible extra dimmers at the start. I am not sure if this would be legal in the states. But If I thought I might double the number of dimmers later I would have double the circuits wired to the bars now. It will be cheaper on a electricians time to make twice the circuit outlets on a bar now then have to come back and haul extra wire into the lighting bar later. These circuits would be marked as not working and the wire ends would be secured with enough spare length to be wired to the extra dimmers later and put in some space out of the way ie the roof space above the dimmers. If you didn't upgrade for a few years you would have saved some money by having it done when things are cheaper. Also you could add one pack at a time as you get the money. This is instead of waiting until you had enough new dimmer circuits to justify the cost of having to rewire all the bars.
> With you having to have all those circuit breakers on a patch panel I can see the cost problem. This has been an interesting discussion and thanks for putting me straight on how you have to do things in the States.



Let's be clear as to the reason the NEC requires that "extra" circuit breaker.

Let's say a TV shoot was occurring in your theatre. The crew brought in a rack of 6kW dimmers. They plugged that male patch cable right into one of the 6kW's, using an "illegal" 20A to 50A adaptor. Then they decided to load it with 4000W of Audeince light PARS, even though it is a 2400W circuit, "because they'll only be on for a few minutes".

Without that breaker, there is a possibility of overloading the building wiring and causing a fire hazard. The building wire is hidden in the walls , so we want to make absolutely sure that doesn't happen.

ST


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## cutlunch (Dec 5, 2007)

STEVETERRY said:


> Let's be clear as to the reason the NEC requires that "extra" circuit breaker.
> Let's say a TV shoot was occurring in your theatre. The crew brought in a rack of 6kW dimmers. They plugged that male patch cable right into one of the 6kW's, using an "illegal" 20A to 50A adaptor. Then they decided to load it with 4000W of Audeince light PARS, even though it is a 2400W circuit, "because they'll only be on for a few minutes".
> Without that breaker, there is a possibility of overloading the building wiring and causing a fire hazard. The building wire is hidden in the walls , so we want to make absolutely sure that doesn't happen.
> ST



I see your point but I think this is over the top. For one thing if it is your theatre you tell them no. You could have them split the load over multiple patch leads. Does this happen a lot in the States, that people throw out commonsense, when it comes to electrical safety?

I am not getting at you guys. I know our electrical regulations on tap-on plugs got tighter when a few Australians electrocuted themselves by miss wiring extension leads.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 6, 2007)

Took a look at the studio theatre today:

There are a total of 5 electrics evenly spaced. Each electric has 12 circuits. In total, the space has 60 circuits.

Dimming is via two Klieglpac9's. There is no seperate patch panel. In the booth there is simply a break-out of the 60 circuits, and the two klieglpac9's stacked on eachother on a rack. Each dimmer of the klieglpac has the ability to patch in 3 circuits. So, with three circuits running off each dimmer, 54 circuits would be in use. 

The board is a kliegl 2 scene board. Each scene has 18 faders.

Heres the link to klieglbros.com, we have 2 pacs, and thus, we have the larger board, with a second bank of faders(not pictured):
http://www.klieglbros.com/catalogs/SpecSheets/KP9/kp9c81brochure.htm


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## STEVETERRY (Dec 6, 2007)

cutlunch said:


> I see your point but I think this is over the top. For one thing if it is your theatre you tell them no. You could have them split the load over multiple patch leads. Does this happen a lot in the States, that people throw out commonsense, when it comes to electrical safety?
> I am not getting at you guys. I know our electrical regulations on tap-on plugs got tighter when a few Australians electrocuted themselves by miss wiring extension leads.



The problem is that the "Honor Code of Overcurrent Protection" does not fly with the NEC.


ST


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## ElectroCarp (May 1, 2011)

When I was in HS our proscenium we had two Strand CD80 Supervisors with 96 dimmers a piece with an ETC express (forget which model) and in our Studio Theater we had the 24 module ETC Sensor + SineWave rack for a total of 48 dimmers.


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## chausman (May 1, 2011)

Well, this thread and the [thread=8386]Your Lighting Inventory[/thread] thread seem to go hand in hand, so, my high school has 2 CD80 racks (96 each) and 125 channels.


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## LXPlot (May 2, 2011)

We have 2 sensor racks and a strand c21 racks. I don't know how big each one is, but I know it adds up to 285 dimmers. A little ridiculous, yes, but works for me.


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## techno89 (May 2, 2011)

My school has an SR48 with probably only 40 dimmers installed max. kinda sucks. Express 24/48 control.

8x S4 36 deg
4x S4 19 deg
10x 3cr 8ft altman r-40 strips
8x PAR64


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## tyler.martin (May 2, 2011)

The first high school i went to had a Strand CD80 96Channel rack with an Strand 300 Clamshell console. 

The Second Highschool I went to had a Strand CD80 Rack, with 24 Dimmer modules that were our property, but then another 24 that were district floaters, that were shared among 4 highschools in the district. Unfortunatly we had a Colortran Innovator for control.

The theatre that I was TD at (attached to a high school but operated separately) had 3 Sensor 48 Racks fully loaded for 288 Dimmers, with both an Ion and an Express 48/96 for control.

I just finished 2 Install projects in high schools in Western Canada,the biggest One had 4 Sensor racks 384 Dimmers, an Ion for control, 6 VLX's 6 VL3's, 12 Mac 350 Entours and 50 Selador's...


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## chausman (May 2, 2011)

martinty said:


> I just finished 2 Install projects in high schools in Western Canada,the biggest One had 4 Sensor racks 384 Dimmers, an Ion for control, 6 VLX's 6 VL3's, 12 Mac 350 Entours and 50 Selador's...


 
Can I come to Canada?


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## BTHSSWSam (May 2, 2011)

I'm the sound board op at Brooklyn Technical High School right now.
We have one of the three largest non-arena seating arrangements in NYC (the first being Radio City). We have 136 circuits and only 48 dimmers. We just got a new ETC ION console, and we'll be doing electrical work over the summer, installing 200 new circuits. I believe we'll be upgrading to 96 dimmers at that point.


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## Sony (May 3, 2011)

142 in the large theatre and 48 in the small theatre. Large theatre has 137 Stage Dimmers and 5 Dimmers for House Lights.


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## sdauditorium (May 3, 2011)

We are a mid-sized high school/community auditorium house (600 seats). We a CD-80 Supervisor rack with 96 dimmers..original install/construction in 1991. Control is a Express 24/48, but with all of the color scrollers and movers we have are looking into an Element or Ion in the future.


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## JWilsonLX (May 3, 2011)

~700 seats. When I left, we had a 144 channels of Sensor dimming(a whole 24 dimmers for houselights). Main control was an ETC Express 125, moving light control varied between an ETC Insight 1 with no video output or an NSI/Leviton 7524. There was also an NFG Express 24/48.


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## Tex (May 3, 2011)

Our main stage (804 seats) has four ETC Sensor+ racks with a total of 378 D20 dimmers and 6 R20AF relays. The black box has 1 1/2 racks with 144 dimmers and 2 relays.


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## DCATTechie (May 3, 2011)

LXPlot said:


> We have 2 sensor racks and a strand c21 racks. I don't know how big each one is, but I know it adds up to 285 dimmers. A little ridiculous, yes, but works for me.


 
Sensor racks have 96 dimmers each dispersed between FOH, Overstage, and Floor pockets, as does the C21. Though the C21 has many circuits dedicated to house and work light circuits.


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## askiboot (May 3, 2011)

*Re: hate to burst a bubble*

144 or so dimmers (6 houselights), 4-5 4 channel portable dimmers, ETC Ion


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## tyler.martin (May 4, 2011)

chausman said:


> Can I come to Canada?



Aaand... We are under the lighting budget with that gear, so yesterday the consultant added an RFU, and some Martin 101's


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## chausman (May 4, 2011)

martinty said:


> Aaand... We are under the lighting budget with that gear, so yesterday the consultant added an RFU, and some Martin 101's


 
Wanna share? Thats seems like more than most venues in the entire city!


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## gbirdsall (May 4, 2011)

propmonkey said:


> we have 96 strand CD-80 our house uses 12. we use a strand 300, we also have a 300 in our little theatre with 12 i think 2.4k dimmer.


 
you wouldnt be interested in picking up 2 more nodes and a few pannels for your 300 board would you?


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## GageStryker (May 5, 2011)

> Originally Posted by *chausman*
> 
> Can I come to Canada?
> 
> Aaand... We are under the lighting budget with that gear, so yesterday the consultant added an RFU, and some Martin 101's



You're going to love the 101s. They're amazing little buggers. And not that expensive, either. Definitely a rock n' roll fixture, not theatrical though. I have a feeling many people are going to spec them and then realize you can't use them to light anything but haze. They do what they do very well, though.

As to small vs. large, it's less a matter of dimmer size as it is lighting cost/capacity per occupied seat in the venue. If you have a state of the art lighting system in a 200 seat venue that 40 people show up to for four productions a year, some consultant is laughing at you. However, if you're like me, with 3 sensor racks (including one that's pretty much entirely house lighting) in a 2200 seat venue that does 4 productions a week 52 weeks a year (plus additional rentals and outside events), you're in a position where it's a week to week making due situation. Of course, our productions generally don't require heavily cued lighting, do we do OK. 

It's all about what you do with your gear. There's nothing more sad then an expensive piece of gear that hangs in one place and gets used rarely.


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## jglodeklights (May 5, 2011)

The high school I work with is currently constructing their new PAC over the land of what was the old auditorium. Two SR48 racks will give us 192 dimmers dedicated to stage lighting, as architectural will all be Unison. This is a major upgrade from the 96 strand dimmers previously available. Also, 8 of those were allocated to house lights. 

With our Express 48/96, we will be able single channel all circuits. Between the new package of instruments, and the old units we are bringing back from the old space, we will be able to have about 120 instruments in the air without renting. With rental units and all CYC light channels in use, we could easily max out our 192 channels. Time for a console rental, at that point!

In reality, all of the old package except the 10 S4's will probably stay in the black box space that is a new feature for them in their PAC. A few sky CYC cells may become work light.


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## RFazz15 (Jun 6, 2011)

Probably really late to post this, but I believe my school has 146. 1 through 24 are to locations in the catwalk, 25 through 40 are to side beams in the house, 41 through 100 are to 3 borders above the stage, 101 to 112 control wall boxes located backstage, and 113 to 124 are for the Cyc. The rest aren't programmed to the console, so I don't really look at them often, but they're probably for houselights. We have a Lehigh Millenium 48/96 console. And the middle school I went to had an ETC Express 24/48 that controlled 96 dimmers. 3.5/10 of which were house lights.


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## Shawncfer (Jun 7, 2011)

The High School I went to had 110 dimmers in Main stage, 24 in the Black Box, and the rest out of 2 Sensor 96 racks were used for House lights and Work Lights. We had 2 Express 48/96 boards for both theaters.

But a new high school school that I'm helping the director out at, has 288 dimmers in Main Stage, 80 in the Black Box, 16 dimers for house lights, and a Smart Switch for Work lights, and Sconces. Plus an Eos Board on Main stage, Element in the black box. 6 High end Studio Spot 575s in Main stage as well. And a plethora of conventionals. Most of which are not being used because theres no need for them! Needles to say that school is in the rich district in my home town. I wish we had that kinda money when I was in HS.


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## natebish (Jun 7, 2011)

at my high school we have a 96x2.4kw NSI rack in our 600+ seat procenium theatre. yet only 1-60 are used for stage lighting and maybe another ten for the house, so by my math we have 26 dimmers that arn't even circuited. and there have been rumors that we will be gitting an upgrade. i hope that means routing those to FOH posistions (we only have twenty circuits and those are on one catwalk roughly 15-20 feet from the 14' procenium arch and 40+ feet up) but who knows if or what we will get. this is controlled on a Colortran Status 24/48. which i am hoping is going to be upgraded to an ETC Element.


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## chausman (Jun 8, 2011)

I realized why I was so confused about why someone was quoting me saying I would enjoy the Martin 101s! I didn't say it. Martiny said he was getting 101s and somehow we both got quoted. That makes things much more clear to me!

Another high school in my area has 150+ dimmers, but an ETC Express 24/48. Though I heard from our local dealer, they are getting an Ion!


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## mstaylor (Jun 10, 2011)

The new renovation in one of the HSs has an Ion and a combonations of dimmers and relay units. I haven't actually gone in the dimmer room but looks to be two 96 racks.


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## AYT93 (Jun 11, 2011)

*Re: hate to burst a bubble*

My school currently has one 96 channel Sensor Dimmer Rack, but with new budget coming i have put in a request for an additional 96 channel rack to be installed, as well as some intelligent lights. We currently have at etc express 48/96 but will be upgrading to hold our new additional dimmers.


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## Nelson (Jun 13, 2011)

Our school auditorium has 144 Leviton i-series dimmers, one rack of 48 and 1 rack of 96. The first 100 are stage lighting circuits. The rest are house lights, work lights, etc. This was installed around 2003. Previously we had 12 ETC Sensor dimmers. Funny, we put on some amazing shows with only 12 dimmers!


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## lightingguy1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I have 3 Strand 48 Dimmer racks w/dual circuit modules....


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## tyler.martin (Jun 13, 2011)

chausman said:


> I realized why I was so confused about why someone was quoting me saying I would enjoy the Martin 101s! I didn't say it. Martiny said he was getting 101s and somehow we both got quoted. That makes things much more clear to me!
> 
> Another high school in my area has 150+ dimmers, but an ETC Express 24/48. Though I heard from our local dealer, they are getting an Ion!


 
I'm not getting them, Im working on a new theatre contstruction that is getting them. It is still a high school though.


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