# rediculous employers ignoring saftey issues (horror story)



## blank (Dec 16, 2011)

okay, let me start by saying im already a member of this forum. this is my second account, its a violation of the TOS and what i post here should probably be moved elsewhere by a mod so that the user "blank" can be deleted. (sorry to make all the extra work, but i need to protect my identity even more than normal on this one)

SO! A few weeks ago i saw this thread on the USITT Secondary school initiative program,

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...condary-school-rigging-safety-initiative.html

I work full time in a highschool theater so needless to say I was excited! I've been in charge of the auditorium for about a year and a half now and its a **** shame the way it is, fire alarm and sprinklers installed but not hooked up, flys all out of trim and "loose" if that makes any sense, dimmers not wired correctly, catwalk is just three two by fours laid across the steel supports for the cement ceiling.

Needless to say this was all a little disappointing, and I've been working hard to fix it, When I heard of the initiative program I printed out the info and took it with me to work the next day and presented it to the director of the fine arts department. 

He was not happy. He said, "Mr. [blank], now you know as well as I that this theater would not pass such an inspection and as you can see here the report of the inspection gets turned over to the USITT and that is not acceptible" I couldn't even think of anything to say.. i just stared with my mouth open so he continued, "now I like what youve done here so far, and as you know money is no object so you can continue to order as many fire-extinguishers and harnesses as you want but I will not have contractors, no matter who is paying them, in my auditorium" he then explained that he had a meeting and left me gaping in his office.

the next day I recieved a memo from the biz office informing me that i was on "disciplinary probabtion" (no grace period for being late, overtime must be pre-approved by the whole office, no phone calls, no personal days, must sign in and out with the principal) when i asked why they just said that they didnt know what i did to piss of the principal but they recommended i didn't do it again if i planned to be around long.

I don't know if this is typical (or if anyone else has had to deal with something like this) but i was disgusted, it makes me sick to work their and honestly pretty mad.

input from the community? what the heck do i even do now?


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## Les (Dec 16, 2011)

I would go straight to the superintendent or Human Resources department*. This sounds like bullying, designed to keep you quiet. However, there should be protection in place for "whistleblowers". 

Just remember that your principal and head of fine arts are low on the food chain when you look at the big picture. There are always people higher up -- all the way to the state level. It is against the law to have inoperable life safety systems in a public building, let alone a school auditorium - and it sounds like he knows that. I think he feels cornered, and he should. Lack of funding is no excuse, and for things like life safety, it is not DIY. You need contractors in there.

_*This could go very well, or very badly depending on how corrupt your institution is._ This is truly a moral dilemma. I know you don't want to jeopardize your position or work in extremely uncomfortable circumstances forever, but since you know about these issues, you have a moral obligation to do everything in your power to get them corrected. If reporting the issues to your superiors is all that's within your power, at least they know and it's off your shoulders. Even still, this is a tough situation. I personally would not be able to rest until everything unsafe was corrected -- "who knows what" would be irrelevant to me.


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## Edrick (Dec 16, 2011)

Unfortunately here our school system is very much ol boy politics where everyone at certain levels scratches each others back. So you step on one persons toe unless you're connected better than they are you're in for a heap of hurt. 

This may be the case where you are. Depending on who is pulling what strings. As mentioned you can go higher and higher in the chain and eventually you get outside of old town politics but the question is do you really want to go to that level and then still be there?


I've had many faculty in the past tell me they're too afraid to push for anything because they don't want to step on the wrong persons toes and loose their job.


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## len (Dec 16, 2011)

Times are tough, economically, so even though there may be whistleblower statutes in place, you have to eat today. And tomorrow. At the very least, keep a log of everything you notice wrong with the facility, and when. Maybe even photos or videos if you can get away with doing that and not get fired. Then find a new job, and report all this crap. In the meantime, don't let students near the dangerous areas. If that's not possible, it may be time to get a job at Walmart and just leave this place, then blow the whistle by going to the school board and the local media.


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## Morte615 (Dec 16, 2011)

I actually had something similar happen to me about 2 years ago, though not in this industry. I was working at a small family owned amusement park and saw quite a few safety items that were either not done at all or done incorrectly. Most of these I could see that they were working to correct as money and skill became available so I was willing to continue working and even to help fix items where possible.

But the final straw was when I decided to remove a ride vehicle (log flume so pretty easy to take a single boat out of commission) because of a problem with one of the wheels. As we were removing the boat my supervisor came over and said that we were too busy and needed the boat in the water, and to put it back in. Explained to him what was wrong with it and why we were removing it till maintenance could look at it. And he said he didn't care, didn't see anything wrong with it (the problem was below the water line and you could not see it till it was on the lift hills, or out of the water) and refused to listen to me.

We were overruled and continued to operate the boat. That is till the wheel fell off with it coming down the hill! So after getting the boat un-jammed and removed (about 20 min of work) the same supervisor came to me and tried to blame me for the problem! At that point I took it up the chain but was given the brush off (no one would do more than listen to me, and then say that it was not my job to second guess my supervisors) so I decided that I did not want to put my own self, as well as the guests, in danger from unsafe practices anymore. So I decided to quit rather than work somewhere unsafe.

Unfortunately because of the location and the size of the park there really is little government oversite so not really any one else I could have taken it to (went all the way to the manager of the park, the owner's son!) But I still refused to work somewhere that put my life and reputation at risk!

Yes that caused me problems for awhile because not only is it a black mark on my application (usually when I explain what happened during an interview most people agree that I did the right thing, but I have to get to the interview first!) I still continue to think about the other things I saw at that park that were unsafe and continue to wonder, if the attitude I saw from management is how they expect the place to be operated, then I would never visit the place again (and haven't!)


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## DrPinto (Dec 16, 2011)

Sucks to be you. Really. If someone gets hurt or worse in this space, it will be YOUR butt. And I could put money on it that the fine arts director will be one of the first to throw you under the bus. He may even be driving the bus!

If I was in your shoes, I would first protect my butt. Do you have any proof that you have made an issue of the safety violations such as a copy of an email or letter to the director or principal? If not, it's your word against theirs, and you know who's going to win that one. Take pictures of the violations. Do that NOW. Keep a list of what problems you brought up, to whom you talked to, and the times and dates. Keep this information at home.

Are you a member of a union? You might want to talk to your union rep and see what they have to say. You might even want to have a chat with an attorney.

After you protect your butt the best you can, I would do what you can to protect the students. Lock the place down if you have to. Nobody should be on a makeshift catwalk or near incorrectly wired dimmers. The students will learn less, but hopefully they won't get hurt.

If you want to keep your job, you can do what it takes to resolve the problems within the system, although since you're already on probation for even mentioning the problems, I don't see this happening.

If you don't care about the job, you can go into martyr mode. You have enough to go to the local fire marshal for sure. You could see if a local TV station wants to do a story on this. Then there's the superintendent and town officials. Maybe the town's loss prevention person. Do you know any politically connected people in town who will back you up, maybe on the board of education? This might cost you your job and burn some bridges.

Personally, I would not tolerate being bullied by a supervisor over issues that relate to the safety of others, especially children. If the boss plans to take me down, he or she is going down too. Hard. But that's just me. You have your own principles and morals, and maybe even a family and mortgage.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## shiben (Dec 16, 2011)

I would imagine that your union rep would have something to say about this situation, as would your HR manager for the district. If you angered your principal only, it might end up being something the District HR could take care of, and your Union would doubtless support you... Just make sure you have your documentation in order. Dont want to get that taken away AND loose your job just because you didnt document yourself properly.


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## venuetech (Dec 18, 2011)

He sure puts you in a tuff spot if you need that paycheck.
hopefully you are a member of an educational support employees association that has a negotiated agreement with the school district. It would be time to review your contract with a sharp eye on any grievance procedures. As said document everything, not just the safety issues but also your conversations with the admin. This guy will likely try to knock your annual evaluation, so review your past evals and do not sign a bad evaluation without proper review.


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## FMEng (Dec 18, 2011)

I feel sorry for "Mr. Blanks" situation. I'd hate for him/her to lose a job over legitimate concerns.

There are more than a few incongruities to this story. First off, there's a high school with a full-time theater TD? On what planet? Secondly, as the resident theater professional, wouldn't the fly system being out of trim be Mr. Blank's responsibility to supervise proper operation? Schools are always given a high priority for fire marshall inspections, so I doubt seriously that a disconnected sprinkler system could be overlooked. It seems odd, on one hand, to devote a full-time salary to a high school theater, and then fight fixing blatant safety defects. All in all, the story doesn't add up.

I would think that a sizeable school district would have a health and safety officer. Concerns like this should be directed to that person. Failing that, most states have an agency charged with enforcing workplace safety, and they would certainly be interested in the types of hazards mentioned. No matter the course of action, it may be too late to save Mr Blank's job, even if there are legal protections in place.


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## Sony (Dec 18, 2011)

FMEng said:


> There are more than a few incongruities to this story. First off, there's a high school with a full-time theater TD? On what planet?



Newton North, the school I work for has a full-time TD as well as myself, a part time ATD. It's not all THAT uncommon. 

Mr. Blank, file a grievance with your union rep, this is obviously bullying, get the rep involved, as well as the media, sue the piss out of these guys for slander. This is completely unacceptable, get the NEA (National Educators Association) on their ass. Confront them, you have a right to know the exact reason you are on probation, they can't just put you on probation for nothing. Keep your nose clean, don't let them find any dirt on you. Definitely go to the union, that is what they are there for, student safety is paramount.


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## venuetech (Dec 18, 2011)

I am not sure but I think Mr.Blank could be a HS student employee. If that is the case it changes things slightly.


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## shiben (Dec 19, 2011)

venuetech said:


> I am not sure but I think Mr.Blank could be a HS student employee. If that is the case it changes things slightly.


 
i ront really. Signing in and out for a HS student is redundant, you legally have to be there anyhow and can already get in trouble for ditching, and I really doubt that a HS student employee could be full time. If they are a SE, then just quit the job, its really not worth it IMO. You dont HAVE to work a position in HS to get into a role in college, I sure didnt...


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## museav (Dec 20, 2011)

Not enough information to offer a response. Your actual position and role, whether it is a public or private school, how major fire alarm and sprinkler issues can have gone unnoticed for more than a year and many other aspects could be factors. I do doubt that the Auditorium actually belongs to your Director of Fine Arts and it may be that some issues between them and other parties in the school or school district who might end up involved if any outside parties came in that is affecting their response.


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## ruinexplorer (Dec 23, 2011)

Since about half of the posts in this thread spiraled off topic to one covered elsewhere, I moved those posts to that thread. You can find that part of the discussion there.

Since some of the posts contained information regarding the OP and other information suited for other discussion, I chose which thread each should go to (in case you are wondering about inconsistencies in posting). 

One pertinent portion of information that should be copied to this thread was from scargo

> To the OP, as others have said, keep a written account of what has been said/done by you about safety concerns in your space. And remember, all info must be transparent, to show that every thing is above water, no bashing, just facts, no matter how you feel.
> Good Luck, Not a pleasant place to be...


 The quote was from the post moved here.


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## Sayen (Dec 24, 2011)

Speaking as a teacher: If you haven't resolved this yet, start by setting up a meeting with your principal. Do NOT jump their head and go straight to their boss. Principals hate that, and you'll be burning a bridge. You'll win the battle but lose the war, as they say. If you're a student, you may or may not want to have a parent present. Just realize that a parent in the room quickly escalates the situation.

Work your way up the food chain as high as you need to go, if the issues really are that severe. But decide now how you want this to go in the future. As others have said document everything. I have emails saved from ten years ago, because there are some vindictive individuals at my district, and they do watch each other's backs. 

Regarding fire marshals - at least in the area I live, I've noticed that a few marshals don't know anything about the theater, and don't really look up in the grids and catwalks. One recent build didn't even have the sprinkler heads installed, just caps on the pipes. I found the mistake two years after they had opened, so it's not unheard of.


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## Pie4Weebl (Dec 25, 2011)

also have every e-mail that is sent to your work e-mail cc'd to an outside account, so if/when your fired you still have records of everything when they hastily delete your e-mail account.


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## misterm (Jan 3, 2012)

i'm laughing at how some of you think high schools are run. i think this guy is legit and actually know several admins like the one mentioned.

Blank, call a meeting with the dept head, principle, facilities manager, and superintendant if necessary. show them pictures, show them regulations, and explain how if something happens, THEY will be sued as you have pointed it out and the burden lies with them now. if need be, hold a private meeting with your principle first and discuss the problem AND how your dept chair reacted. if you have ANY friends/allies high up in the system, call them in on this. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. be diplomatic and patient. hardest thing to do, but its the only way.


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## spribil (Jan 21, 2012)

I will admit I did not read every response on here but after the first two I had to reply.

first off there is "whistle blower" protection with OSHA, you are working for the school district and it is their responsibility to "furnish to his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees."

This is rule number one in any work place. You can contact OSHA at anytime, You will have to tell OSHA your name but then tell them you want to stay confidential and OSHA will step in.

this is crap and don't let them take bully you for trying to be safe.


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## chausman (Jan 21, 2012)

spribil said:


> I will admit I did not read every response on here but after the first two I had to reply.


 
Well, I hope you at least went back and read the rest after posting.


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## Tex (Jan 22, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> also have every e-mail that is sent to your work e-mail cc'd to an outside account, so if/when your fired you still have records of everything when they hastily delete your e-mail account.


School district email is subject to open record laws. Even if not mandated by state law, most districts are archiving email according to the specifications of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. It would be very foolish for a district to fire an employee and delete all email in that account. In a wrongful dismissal lawsuit, an attorney filing for discovery would have a slam dunk judgement if the district had destroyed evidence.

spribil said:


> This is rule number one in any work place. You can contact OSHA at anytime, You will have to tell OSHA your name but then tell them you want to stay confidential and OSHA will step in.


You might be surprised to know (I was) that OSHA doesn't cover state-funded public schools (and many other public entities.)


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## spribil (Jan 24, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]Which groups do not come under OSHA’s coverage[/FONT]?


> § [FONT=&quot;]The self-employed;[/FONT]§ [FONT=&quot;]Immediate members of farming families not employing outside workers;[/FONT]§ [FONT=&quot;]Mine workers, certain truckers and transportation workers, and atomic energy workers who are covered by other federal agencies. [/FONT][FONT=&quot;]Public employees in state and local governments, although some states have their own plans that cover these workers.[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] 
This is directly from the lesson plan I have for teaching OSHA 30. I will have to look into this deeper as I think you might be right, but then again it says Public employees of ...governments... Do teachers fall into this category? They are partially exempt from record keeping Appendix A to Subpart B of Part 1904. So I will have to look into this more.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


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## Footer (Jan 30, 2012)

spribil said:


> [FONT=&quot]Which groups do not come under OSHA’s coverage[/FONT]?
> 
> [FONT=&quot]
> This is directly from the lesson plan I have for teaching OSHA 30. I will have to look into this deeper as I think you might be right, but then again it says Public employees of ...governments... Do teachers fall into this category? They are partially exempt from record keeping Appendix A to Subpart B of Part 1904. So I will have to look into this more.
> ...


 
When I taught osha did not cover me. Governments never have to follow their own rules such as fire,building, or labor rules that the private sector must follow. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## shiben (Jan 31, 2012)

Footer said:


> When I taught osha did not cover me. Governments never have to follow their own rules such as fire,building, or labor rules that the private sector must follow.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


 
So government buildings are just less likely to burn down, the buildings are just less likely to collapse in an earthquake, and the employees just work safer by virtue of the fact that they work for the government? Thats stupid.


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 4, 2012)

spribil said:


> first off there is "whistle blower" protection with OSHA, you are working for the school district and it is their responsibility to "furnish to his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees."


 
I wish that it were that easy. I was terminated from a position after contacting an OSHA representative. I then contacted a lawyer who, after reviewing my case, showed me that I had a lost cause. Yes, I had the evidence to get my job back, including lost pay, but since it was a right to work state, that protection would grant me maybe an extra six months employment and a black mark on my record (small business circle after all). Because I did talk to a lawyer and demanded my rights under the whistle-blower act, someone at the faciltiy started slandering my reputation by spreading false accusations (which if they had been true, they should have reported me to the police). I would have turned and sued for slander if I could have been able to pinpoint exactly who started spreading the rumors.

So, my advice is to tread carefully since fighting those with better legal representation is not always the best strategy. The law may be on your side, but judges are not always.


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