# 12' flats - go Broadway or Hollywood?



## AshleyB (Sep 21, 2014)

Working in a HS scene shop, new facility with basically NO stock anything, and I'm looking to start a good, basic flat stock for the school. The stage is sizeable, so the easy 8x4 would just get overwhelmed. I personally like Hollywood flats -less fussy to cover, more stable, and probably more durable (in the hands of teenagers, anyway). 

My concern is that 12' TV flats will be too heavy (since I assume I'd have to use 2x4 for framing to get the height), and proclude designs in the future that require any quick changes (or flying in). 

Thoughts?

and if I go with soft flats, what's the preferred method these days for getting that extra height? Build an 8' flat and add an extension? or scab lumber to get longer stiles? 

Cheers


----------



## Footer (Sep 21, 2014)

1x4 and Hollywood with luan will be plenty stable and will be easy to move. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


----------



## AshleyB (Sep 21, 2014)

Footer said:


> 1x4 and Hollywood with luan will be plenty stable and will be easy to move.


sadly, also twice as expensive - the cheapest 12' 1x4 at Home Depot (our approved vendor) is $11.48 per. owie.


----------



## MNicolai (Sep 22, 2014)

If you have the tooling, it can be less expensive to purchase 1x12's and rip them down into multiple 1x4's.


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 22, 2014)

I would never consider 2x4 for scenic walls so while both would use 12' 1x4 verticals, the Hollywood style will require probably 6 horizontals, maybe 7, and Broadway just 4. Build the Broadway 5'-9" wide and you'll save more. Consider the Luann vs corner blocks and cost clearly favors Broadway. I think the real difference is on person can easily move a Broadway style and I think a 4 x 12 Hollywood will require two often. And for stock, that means storage, and thats about a third of the fllo space for Broadway versus Hollywood.

PS - don't think of scabbing on lumber - just buy 12 footers, use the best for verticals and the bothers for horizontals.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Sep 22, 2014)

My venue has found that an inventory of hollywood flats with a maximum size of 4'x8' offers more flexibility in design.

For instance, an 8' x 12' wall can be made from three 4'x8' flats assembled with 2 oriented vertically and 1 oriented horizontally. Seams are either taped or hidden by architectural details like chair rails, plate rails, crown molding, etc. As we start building up on risers, it's easy to find a smaller width flat to match the step in height and keep an even ceiling line, if that's what the design calls for. Hollywoods can be used for knee walls, door frames, or archways.

We frame using 1x3 ripped from larger stock and skin with luaun that has to be shipped in from out of province. It's a good compromise between rigidity and storage space. If we need something stronger, which is rare, we'll rip the 1x3 down another 1/8" and skin with 1/4" plywood.


----------



## TheaterEd (Sep 22, 2014)

AshleyB said:


> sadly, also twice as expensive - the cheapest 12' 1x4 at Home Depot (our approved vendor) is $11.48 per. owie.



Are you positive about that price? That seems like Way more than what I pay.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/WeatherS...d-Board-155393/100036081?N=5yc1vZc3srZ1z0ywy2


----------



## sk8rsdad (Sep 22, 2014)

TheaterEd said:


> Are you positive about that price?


It's probably 1x4x12 select pine at that price, and not PT spruce. Knotty pine would be somewhere in between.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Sep 22, 2014)

I've encountered similar problems with 1x4 being expensive. I've done what @MNicolai has suggested and if you've got a good table saw with a steady hand and sharp blade it can be very easy and save you some bread. The previous TD built 5-6 flats with 2x4's and I've been slowly rebuilding them with 1x4 as we use them. 2x4's are overkill and makes them dangerously heavy to move whereas a 4x8 broadway with 1x4 can be easily moved by most high school students.


----------



## TheaterEd (Sep 22, 2014)

sk8rsdad said:


> It's probably 1x4x12 select pine at that price, and not PT spruce. Knotty pine would be somewhere in between.


I'm still working on learning more about the different types of wood. I'm heading to pick up some 8' 1" x 4" later today so I will advise on my local prices. 

Note for AshleyB: Most Home Depot's will actually cut your material down to size for you if you ask nicely. So as Mike pointed out, you can save some dollars that way without adding too much additional work on you end.


----------



## Footer (Sep 22, 2014)

I've never had good luck with ripping 1x12. First cut is always good, second cut is OK, third cut is a water ski. You don't save that much and you waste your own time.


----------



## venuetech (Sep 22, 2014)

Footer said:


> I've never had good luck with ripping 1x12. First cut is always good, second cut is OK, third cut is a water ski. You don't save that much and you waste your own time.


Ditto, for me I can watch it warp as I cut.


----------



## sk8rsdad (Sep 22, 2014)

Find a better lumber supplier who does a better job of drying their stock. I just finished a few hundred rip cuts, mostly 1x2 and 1x3 for a set I'm building and only had one piece _hockey stick_ on me.


----------



## venuetech (Sep 22, 2014)

sk8rsdad said:


> Find a better lumber supplier who does a better job of drying their stock. I just finished a few hundred rip cuts, mostly 1x2 and 1x3 for a set I'm building and only had one piece _hockey stick_ on me.


I live on a large island in part of the North Pacific known as the gulf of Alaska. Simply not a lot of choice of suppliers. I could buy from Seattle but that is a thousand miles to the east of where I'm at. Or I can buy clear fir, known as "linear gold"


----------



## kicknargel (Sep 22, 2014)

If you can, dump the big box and use a real lumber yard. I figure ~$.50/ft for 1x4 grade 2, regardless of length. A similar common practice to those mentioned here is to buy 1x6 and rip to 1x3 (2.5" true). 

If staying under 8', we now always frame with paint grade birch plywood. Less warp-y.


----------



## oneeyedpug (Sep 22, 2014)

I used to build sets for television and we used to build 12' flats out of 1x3 all the time, now in Hollywood you can easily get good 1x3, so that might make a difference.


----------

