# Keys in high school



## renegadeblack (Oct 24, 2008)

I'm a high school student and we seem to be having some debate about whether or not we (sld and ssd) should have keys to the booth door. We've since installed many locks inside on our sound rack and plan on installing cabinets for our various things as well as locks on the sliding windows that people (including me and the ssd as well as people who screw with our stuff) get in. We have keys to all of the new locks that we've installed so we are able to actually secure things and still get inside. 

Two questions:
I want to be able to put some sort of keyed lock for the electricity in the booth. Something that I could turn a key on and would complete the circuit, preferably on the cheap. Ideas?

Do you think that we should be able to have the keys to the door? It would make our lives so much easier, but they say that its unethical. Other high school studentsn do you have keys?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waynehoskins (Oct 24, 2008)

My two cents:

Answer to question one: no.
Revised answer to question one: hell no.

Answer to question two: no.

As much as you take ownership of the venue and systems, in the end it's not your space or building. With keys for convenience comes heaps of responsibility and liability that, as I understand it, you can't legally be liable for.


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## Footer (Oct 24, 2008)

First, put away the phone and pay attention to your class, if there is one thing that drives me crazy more then anything its my students texting during class.

First question, who else besides you and your friend have the keys to the locks you put on things? 

Second, with the "cut the booth power" key, no, don't do that. First, it will require you to put in a switch, which means modifying the electrical connection in the walls. I assume you want to do this yourself, and I can tell you the administration will not be so happy with you if you start re-wiring the building. Also, I guarantee that you don't know enough about how to do it to do it safely. Also, there is really no need for that, are you really that concerned with someone power something up after they have gotten past the lock on the door? 

Third, none of my students have keys to anything, period. I keep the keys to everything with me at all times. I do not leave anything unlocked, including dressing rooms. Lift keys stay with me as well. I do this for two reasons, first I know for certain where the kids are not during class. Also, I know where my gear is at all times, because if I don't unlock it, no one can get to it. 

Now for my "teacher" side to come out. Your at school. When you are at school someone is responsible for you when you are there. Therefore, if something happens to you its their rear-end that will be on the line. If they give you a "main" key to the building, allowing you 24 hour access, to that room, they have now lost control over you. You can now get through a controlled area without assistance, without someone knowing that you are there. So now when you go there, and you get hurt, no one will know where to look. Also compounded on that, there is no way an administrator is going to let a student have a key because they will think you will skip class and hide, to be blunt about it. 

So, a little about my experience we keys as a student. 
When I was in High school, we did not get keys to the buidling. I did however have a skeleton key to the middle school so when I went over to help with shows or whatnot I could do what I needed to do.

In college, by my senior year I had keys to every theatre and shop on campus. I was also the House TD of one of our spaces so I needed those keys. 

Now, a rant.

I know you want keys. I know you want to "feel the power". You want to, and probably do, carry them on your belt so they go jingle jingle. Right now, its not going to happen. People are responsible for you, and if you get those keys, they lose the ability to control you, which can put them at risk.


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## chrispo86 (Oct 24, 2008)

As a student, the LD (a year older than me) and myself (ALD) constantly bugged our tech. advisor for keys to the lighting booth. Never got anywhere with it. After I graduated I kept going back and helping out at the high school. I have even been hired back as a consultant under formal contract from the school district for the past 4 years (I graduated in 2004). I still don't have keys. My buddy who was LD over me, started as a teacher last year in the school. Even as a full time faculty member, he also still doesn't have keys.

Basically it comes down to, as it has already been said, there is way too much responsibility that goes along having the keys to a room like that. Frankly I'm suprised you have any keys at all. In my high school, only one person in the district has a key to any of the equipment in our auditorium. The only other key is kept in the school vault. I'm not exaggerating either.

And as much as I wanted keys then, and would still like to have keys now, I have to agree, there is too much responsibility. God forbid something happen (someone gets hurt when there is no other supervision, equipment is stolen, etc), the person who has the keys is the one who's head goes on the chopping block...


And as for keyed power for the booth, I can't really see why you would need it? There shouldn't really be anybody who doesn't at least have some sort of idea as to what they're doing in the room in the first place.


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## soundman (Oct 24, 2008)

I never got keys in high school, if the TD wasn't there work didn't get done. It was a PITA to find him all the time but that is the way it had to be. 

I college all SMs get a key for the space they are working in. Any LDs and MEs get a key for the duration of the show. Upper level students also get a key, most of the time they fit into one of those positions and if not they tend to have other projects that require them to be around. We also have student keys for the booth and CAD/sound lab that get issued out when there are projects do.


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## lieperjp (Oct 24, 2008)

I would say no to the keys for the booth, storage, and what not as well. Unless you have a special key system that only, and let me repeat ONLY opens the booth.

As for why, I think that if you are respectful and show (and maintain) responsibility, you should be rewarded. However, if you mess up, then be prepared to have those keys taken away. Also, I come from a small school background (High school of about 400 kids) where I was one of two people who did tech stuff. If something out of the ordinary happened, it would be rather easy to find out the person responsible. I got a key when we had shows going on so I could get stuff when I needed, as the teacher who was in charge was not always available. Is this a universal rule? No. It's very situation dependent - both on the competence of the person and the setting from both a safety and a need based aspect.

Also, as an employee of the school, I also had a key to the concession stand, kitchen, locker room, and athletic equipment room. That key was granted by the administration so I could perform my duties as Concession Stand manager. I tell you that to ask this: What is the school's policy on keys? Do any other students have keys? If not, the administration probably won't give out any to you or the other members of your crew.

I guess I have to go back to the WHY. Why do you want a key? Do you really NEED a key? Probably not. After all, you've survived this far without one.


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## chrispo86 (Oct 24, 2008)

Charc said:


> I'm a fan of swipe cards on college campuses, with the Theatre Department being personally responsible for whom has access at what times. I tracks you and everything!



I almost made a comment about this being a possible alternative even on the high school front.

If you have a door with a card that will only let you in during a certain time period during the day, then that eliminates a lot of the inherent problems with giving out keys. You don't need to worry about students running off during the middle of the day or coming in after hours when they shouldn't be there. And if it does so happen to be a time when they are allowed access, as it was said, those things track every person (by card number) that opens the lock and what time it was opened.

That's not to say that there still isn't a huge amount of responsibility with having access to a booth, even if it is controlled access.


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## avkid (Oct 24, 2008)

I'll leave the key thing alone.
If you're school already has light switches that require a key see if you can get your advisor to have maintenance install one in the booth.

Wait a second, just use the breaker.
Then anyone who needs to can use it without a key or much hassle, but those who aren't supposed to be using it will be deterred.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 24, 2008)

By the way, in high school I and the other students never had keys to anything at the school. Somehow we survived.

In college, like somebody else's college above, the stage manager got a key to the theatre for the duration of rehearsal and production of the show. That's it. 

As a freelance LD going back to light shows at the high school, I don't have any venue keys. They have given me keys to things like equipment racks, cabinets, padlocks, and the sort, but no building keys, and that's fine with me. Sure would make things convenient, but it's not that important: if I need in and the director and TD aren't there, and I haven't borrowed their keys, then I probably don't really need to be there.


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## soundman (Oct 24, 2008)

Charc said:


> I'm a fan of swipe cards on college campuses, with the Theatre Department being personally responsible for whom has access at what times. I tracks you and everything!



It is in the works here, just got started across the street at the road house. The problem we face is the per door costs means that some doors will never see it scene shop for sure, prop storage probably not.


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## elite1trek (Oct 24, 2008)

You dont _need_ the keys. It just makes things convenient. Believe me, I understand, its a pain to have to wait for someone to open something, or to track someone down. But put yourself in your school's shoes, who you, the responsible adult, let your students have keys to the booth so they could get in there whenever they wanted. The answer is probably (and should be) no.

Now, at my theatre, if somebody needs something unlocked, or they need to get into the building or anything else, I give them my keys, but if they dont bring them back I TRACK THEM DOWN AND KILL THEM...erm...I mean....ask them to give me my keys back.

I also welded the key ring together so nobody can take any keys off.


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## propmonkey (Oct 24, 2008)

i use to think that i should have a key to the booth but we rarely kept it locked. only 2 people had keys to all the doors of our high schol theatre: the director and tech director (he had district wide keys as he was the system admin) the crew had a key for all th padlocks to all the equipment. keys annoy me. if i need to get somewhere i find the person with the keys and have them unlock the relock so i just have to close the door when i am done. this way they knew i was there and had an idea what i was doing. i graduated three years ago and still have my padlock key because i help with the civic theatre that uses the little theatre. the one thing that bugged me about the other crew members was that they felt the need to wear their keys. they had one that worked for the space and what ever personal keys. its not a fashion statement to wear your keys. the only one who had a right to wear theirs was the director because he used them multiple times throughout the day. even though i have a clip my keys are always in my pocket, i dont like the jingle of keys. since i have left all exterior doors now use a card swipe entry process. at my college (uwm) i know the sm and the staff have keys and maybe the few upper upperclassmen. i have not found a reason why most people would need a key there. if theyre working on something a staff member will be there. to get into any of the building we have handscanners. which are useful to get you into the space but in order to get into any rooms you need a key. 

i see it as yeah having total access would be nice but honestly you do not need it for there should always be someone above you keeping track.


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## avkid (Oct 24, 2008)

propmonkey said:


> to get into any of the building we have handscanners.


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## mnfreelancer (Oct 24, 2008)

I had keys in high school. I actually had keys in middle school too. Looking back I consider myself to be lucky and realize how trustable I must have been for them to do that. I highschool I had keys to the television studio and the storage room, and the theatre key. Eventually I replaced those single keys with a building master and became a full-set holder junior and senior year. I was basically the on-call backup for the full-time (adult) theatre manager and thus needed access to everything. I never was given an alarm code for the building though so somebody had to disarm even though I could get in the exterior doors. At the peak of "full-set-holder-dom" I had probably 20 or so keys for the theatre, roll-up door, lifts, racks and tool cabinets - it does weigh you down after a while. I carried multiple rings and kept my most frequently used keys on my belt (the masters) along with my van key and the rest were kept in my pocket. Jingling gets to be SUPER annoying after a while, especially during a show if you have to move around at all.

One thing to remember about institutional style key systems is that it's rare someone at the advisor level HAS extra copies of keys to give out. Most say "duplication prohibited" and although you still can get them copied most people know they shouldn't - uncontrolled keys not issued by the facility are a major security risk. If the facility issues them at least they know when one is missing so they can have things rekeyed if necessary. Most of the time your advisors will have to beg their superiors for extra keys to give out just like you beg them, and they probably don't want to.

Would I give keys to students if I was a highschool TD? Maybe. I remember how it was. It would have to be a student that went above and beyond, and who is absolutely trustable. Keys to the booth? Probably...keys to the theatre doors...maybe not as easily. Keys to the building - probably not...that's an administration decision.


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## Van (Oct 24, 2008)

I see no problem in the model we used to use at a space I worked in. When we showed up to do a show, we went to security and checked out Keys. At the end of the night we checked the keys back in. In Highschool Our techer had a couple of different sets of keys, you'd check them out, Audio guy got the audio rack keys, Light guy got the keys to the catwalks and lighting storage areas. All these instances were, however, strictly monitored and if you didn't turn the keys back in there was hell to pay. 
This system works in a lot of situations but as a rule if you asked me, " should I have keys?" simple answer, "no" as to the second<' Should I have a key to turn off the power to the booth?" to Coin a phrase," Hell no!" 
if for no other reason than, if you kill the power to the booth all your computer operated items will then be running off their internal batteries and super caps, this put undo stress on the components, and wouln't you feel bad if everytime you turned the poweer back on you had to completely re-patch?


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## Footer (Oct 24, 2008)

Van said:


> I see no problem in the model we used to use at a space I worked in. When we showed up to do a show, we went to security and checked out Keys. At the end of the night we checked the keys back in. In Highschool Our techer had a couple of different sets of keys, you'd check them out, Audio guy got the audio rack keys, Light guy got the keys to the catwalks and lighting storage areas. All these instances were, however, strictly monitored and if you didn't turn the keys back in there was hell to pay.
> This system works in a lot of situations but as a rule if you asked me, " should I have keys?" simple answer, "no" as to the second<' Should I have a key to turn off the power to the booth?" to Coin a phrase," Hell no!"
> if for no other reason than, if you kill the power to the booth all your computer operated items will then be running off their internal batteries and super caps, this put undo stress on the components, and wouln't you feel bad if everytime you turned the poweer back on you had to completely re-patch?



Krannert Center at UofI has a system like that. They have 50 or so lock boxes in the loading dock, each with a theatre and a position on it. When you are working a show, you get the key that opens the box with the keys in it. No one, even the top brass, leaves the building with a set of building keys. Also, this allows them to easily revoke keys by simply changing out one core. 

Depending on the age of the building and how it was cored there could be 50 keys for your building or one. Most of my campus is one key that we all get. Luckly the theatre has different cores, one exterior and one interior, so I don't have to worry about an english teacher wondering around in my space. One more reason not to give students keys, if they lose them who knows how many locks have to be changed. If I lose my keys, its a 500 dollar charge of my paycheck with all the re-core work that has to be done.


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## ruinexplorer (Oct 24, 2008)

Me personally, I don't want keys. I liked being able to check them out when I came to work in order to get to the places I needed to go, but I never wanted to have them personally checked out. Why? Well, if something goes wrong, they don't come looking at you. One of the theaters I was working in had someone come in and steal equipment and do a lot of vandalization. I was thankful that I hadn't accepted keys when offered to me. It doesn't matter how much you are trusted, you automatically become suspect when something happens. Unless you are 18 (legally an adult) I agree with the "Hell no" of giving out keys, especially to power relays, because you can't be held legally responsible. Once you can, go ahead and petition for it, because then you have the right to be held liable for whatever happens. Your decision.


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## DaveySimps (Oct 24, 2008)

I agree with the general consensus of the booth. NO keys. It is just to much of a liability for the school. It is just generally bad policy. Your director / TD / Teacher should be locking everything up each night or unlocking each day as a matter of good policy. It is a good way to force them to walk through the space everyday as a small means to keep tabs on things.

~Dave


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## renegadeblack (Oct 24, 2008)

I appreciate the feedback on the having keys, there seems to be a wide spectrum of what you all think, for those of you who were saying what would be accessed, it would only be the booth. Also, we did mention to them that I would be able to get a system for free (family member works for a major lock company) that would allow them to specify when we were allowed access. The reason that it was such a problem is that we before had a tech advisor who was never around so it was an hour long hunt to find someone who did have keys. As for who would have keys besides myself? The other kid who is in charge of sound. It's not as important now that we would, but before things were near impossible. 

As for the second bit about power, I'm not looking for a key for a power relay for the entire **** thing  At my middle school (though they got an over haul and things are probably no longer the same) they had a key that turned on their lighting system, it was friggin old, all analog dimmers. I'm looking to see if there's something similar that could be implemented for a dmx system. Any one know of something along those lines?


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## icewolf08 (Oct 24, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> As for the second bit about power, I'm not looking for a key for a power relay for the entire **** thing  At my middle school (though they got an over haul and things are probably no longer the same) they had a key that turned on their lighting system, it was friggin old, all analog dimmers. I'm looking to see if there's something similar that could be implemented for a dmx system. Any one know of something along those lines?



If, as you say, there are only a few people in the building who have keys to the booth why do you need to key out your lighting console? Who is going to touch it that doesn't have permission? Besides, chances are the people who currently have keys to your booth would be the people who would get the keys to the lighting system. Besides, as soon as the band or choir teacher comes in and can't turn on the lights they will also be issued a key. So it is kind of a moot point.


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## FMEng (Oct 24, 2008)

avkid said:


> Wait a second, just use the breaker.
> Then anyone who needs to can use it without a key or much hassle, but those who aren't supposed to be using it will be deterred.



That's a no-no. Most Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as switches on a frequent basis. The extra wear and tear on the breaker may eventually cause it not to perform properly. The last thing you want is a breaker that false trips, or starts a fire because it didn't trip when it should.

Maybe this is just an old electrician's tale, but I prefer to use switches as switches and breakers only for circuit protection.


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## mbandgeek (Oct 25, 2008)

waynehoskins said:


> My two cents:
> 
> Answer to question one: no.
> Revised answer to question one: hell no.
> ...



I once asked in a joking manner to the TD at my high school if i could have a key. He said yes, after i paid 7 million dollars. He made a good point. Why would you need to lock out the booth power if the booth is to be locked at all times anyway?


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## Footer (Oct 25, 2008)

ETC and Strand both used to put keys on all their lighting consoles. They don't do it anymore because the keys simply got lost if they got pulled from the console. In order to keep the keys around, people glued them in to the consoles with epoxy. Don't put a key on a piece of gear in a locked room. Its one thing for a FOH sound position that anyone can walk into, but behind a door? Also, there is no way they are going to let someone from the outside in to come in and install some kind of time lock.

People are touchy about their access to a room. Heres what it really boils down to, the second there is a bomb threat and the entire building goes "red", everything must be locked up and everything must be able to be fully gone through in the event of a top to bottom search.

If there are locks on things that people dont have keys to, the people are not going to be happy. I have master locks on all of my cabinets in both my theatres. The administration has a ring in their lock box with those keys on it, as well as our building engineer. It is a HUGE liability risk to have stuff that can not be opened for any reason if need be. If for some reason that timed lock would lock out the admin as they go through the building, people are not going to be happy. Add to that, telling them that a student has access to that room at any time of the day unmonitored people are really not going to be happy. I know this sounds like a crazy thing to think about, but its a reality. My school has gone full "red" at least one a year for the last 5 years.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 25, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> As for the second bit about power, I'm not looking for a key for a power relay for the entire **** thing  At my middle school (though they got an over haul and things are probably no longer the same) they had a key that turned on their lighting system, it was friggin old, all analog dimmers. I'm looking to see if there's something similar that could be implemented for a dmx system. Any one know of something along those lines?



Sure, you could (an opto with a keyswitch in its dc power line comes to mind), but again, why? What's to be gained from that?

Remember, as a student, even though you have taken ownership over the thing (which is good, to treat it as you would if it were yours and such), it's still not your thing. In four years or less you'll be gone, while the space and department and systems will remain for many years past that.

As to keys, then I worked at The Hall some years ago now, only full-timers had permanently-issued keys. The part-timers like me, and the union guys, had to check out a set of keys from the security desk at the stage door each day (though I did get a prox card for the exterior doors on mag locks).

As a church TD, I've got one guy (who's only 16 but knows almost as much as I do) who I would trust implicitly with a set of keys, even though at our place the only key you need is the outside door since nothing of mine is locked-down inside. If we had keys to open this and turn on that, I'd give him a set in a heartbeat for two reasons: I trust him with the keys, and he actually has good reason to have them.

But in general, if as a student you're asking for a set of keys, no offense, you probably shouldn't have them anyway.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 25, 2008)

Footer said:


> ETC and Strand both used to put keys on all their lighting consoles. They don't do it anymore because the keys simply got lost if they got pulled from the console. In order to keep the keys around, people glued them in to the consoles with epoxy.



I've got a few old Strand boards with keyswitches. Scary thing, since if I lose the key I can't turn the thing on or off. I've got a Mantrix with two keyswitches but no key; fortunately it's the same key as my MLP. I've got half a mind to change those out -- which I can since they're mine.

In my mind, the only keyswitch a board should have is a record lockout switch, but these days even that's moot since, well, we write to memory more than we did before, and there are ways to backup the board's memory.


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## willbb123 (Oct 25, 2008)

The only keys I had in high school were do the patch bay on the dimmers, random padlocks and the props closet. I really wanted a master key, but looking back now I didnt need it.

Now I work in a professional theater building. I have a key that can get me into the building, and closets. But I can not get into the box office or production offices (I was disappointed when I figured this out cause I thought I had a master, but I can not think of a reason why I would need it.) Having a key now allows me to get into the theater early to get stuff ready before crew call. 

Now that I have the keys I can be the only one at the theater at times. I am super paranoid when I lock up and check every door in the theater.


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## superuser2 (Oct 25, 2008)

An idea:

Have keyrings for specific positions (sound operator, lighting operator, spot operator, etc.) that are passed out at the beginning of the day by an adult and collected before you leave the building. They should open only what you need to access without immediate supervision (booth doors, amp/effects rack, stairs/ladder to catwalk or door to lighting cage.)

You could just have an adult open the doors for you, but if you need to go to the bathroom, etc. then you either leave the door open to everyone else (insecure) or you need an adult to come up the stairs and let you back in (a waste of everyone's time).

But keys to equipment storage (like for microphones, cabling, gels, headsets, etc.) should only be held by the adults. You should not be able to get at that stuff without an adult right there with you. That would be a serious liability.

A keyed power switch is totally unreasonable. That sounds like a power struggle thing to me; you want to make sure you can control who uses the equipment. Only an adult should be capable of making those decisions. If they want to let someone else run the sound board they should not have to track you down to get the key. A locked power switch doesn't prevent theft; it prevents use.


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## loki (Oct 26, 2008)

At our school i get keys to areas i need access to for the duration of a show, Because our school uses Cyber Keys i can only get in at set times and all access is recorded. The other check on that is i dont know the Alarm codes  so i have to wait till an adult turns off the school seccurity system.

As for key power, I have seen it done but never in a theater system and i happen to know its rather expensive to do it Properly


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## renegadeblack (Oct 26, 2008)

superuser2 said:


> An idea:
> 
> Have keyrings for specific positions (sound operator, lighting operator, spot operator, etc.) that are passed out at the beginning of the day by an adult and collected before you leave the building. They should open only what you need to access without immediate supervision (booth doors, amp/effects rack, stairs/ladder to catwalk or door to lighting cage.)
> 
> ...


The thing is that our choir teacher has a key to the auditorium as well as the booth and when she gives a student the key to open the door to the booth to hit the panic button, they also screw around with things that they think that they know how to work, but of course, don't, not to mention the fact that the door to the booth also gets left unlocked by said students and then other people wander in, in a similar regard, I left the booth open while I wasn't in it, and I get back literally two minutes later and I find someone in there screwing around with the lights! 

As for everyone mentioning liability of students having the keys, now that you mention it, I agree. There aren't things that we are the only people that have a key to it, we have keys for all of the appropriate personnel so they are able to investigate everything if such a situation as you've all mentioned should arise. 

Also, why do you say that they wouldn't allow someone to come in and install a time lock? They'd do the installing 

Just a quick something to mention when I saw someone mention alarms. Every production we have a "super Saturday" 7AM - 10PM. The only part of the school that is open is the hallway parallel to the theatre and choir areas backstage. We have signs on every single door that is alarmed, even people guarding them, but somehow, though none of us understand it, they get tripped. Police come, ugh! Anyone else have those problems?


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## superuser2 (Oct 26, 2008)

What is it that those kids need to get into the booth to do? Sounds to me like if they shouldn't be touching the equipment in the booth they shouldn't be let in.

What exactly is the "panic" button you're talking about? It seems to me the simplest solution would be to move that button out of the booth.


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## elite1trek (Oct 26, 2008)

> What exactly is the "panic" button you're talking about? It seems to me the simplest solution would be to move that button out of the booth.



The panic button is a button that is used to turn all the house lights and work lights and anything else you need in order to see, in case of emergency.

It is generally kept next to the lighting console...to prevent wandering hands during a performance and just for safety reasons. They do make boxes with faders in them for turning on house and stage lights, without having access to the console. That would be my solution to the un-trained student problem.


> We have signs on every single door that is alarmed, even people guarding them, but somehow, though none of us understand it, they get tripped. Police come, ugh! Anyone else have those problems?



Same problem sometimes, but only when nobody is in the building. Ghost. (or a plethora of perfectly rational explanations)


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## lieperjp (Oct 26, 2008)

elite1trek said:


> They do make boxes with faders in them for turning on house and stage lights, without having access to the console. That would be my solution to the un-trained student problem.



+1 for this idea. You can even get covers for these that lock so no one accidentally bumps one during a show.


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## renegadeblack (Oct 26, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> +1 for this idea. You can even get covers for these that lock so no one accidentally bumps one during a show.



 We have one, it got bumped during a show by a bit of scenery and no longer works. I've been looking to get it replaced so that people don't need to go in the booth. Not to mention that this board randomly decides that it would like some house lights at which point the only way to fix it is to give it a good whack (which I've been reprimanded for doing on this forum before). This panel (remembrance) is also what manages our entry and panic buttons. 


We also unfortunately have entry buttons in addition to the panic button. The panic button turns on worklights as well as house lights. The entry buttons only turn on house lights. The problem is that we have teachers who decide that they want more light and simply push the button when I've already got it covered as well as people mentioned, wandering fingers.


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## willbb123 (Oct 26, 2008)

At the theater I work at we have ETC's Unison system. There are "Entry" buttons the lighting booth, sound booth, stage managers spot, and convent places in the house. Some of the panels have a 10 zone sliders in which 4-6 bring up work light, and ten programmable preset buttons. On all the panels that are not a "control" location (light and sound booth, and SM's seat) have a lock out key. When this key is turned at any location you can not change the preset with out unlocking that unit or sticking a key in another location. 
In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....


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## renegadeblack (Oct 27, 2008)

willbb123 said:


> At the theater I work at we have ETC's Unison system. There are "Entry" buttons the lighting booth, sound booth, stage managers spot, and convent places in the house. Some of the panels have a 10 zone sliders in which 4-6 bring up work light, and ten programmable preset buttons. On all the panels that are not a "control" location (light and sound booth, and SM's seat) have a lock out key. When this key is turned at any location you can not change the preset with out unlocking that unit or sticking a key in another location.
> In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....



For the longest time, she was the only person who we could regularly see to get keys because as I mentioned earlier, our td was never around. She also wants keys because she is the primary user of our auditorium and she actually is the head of the drama department as well. She does have legitimate reason to need to get into there as she needs lights on stage. I have a different thread about replacing the back board that I have so that she will no longer need to go in there


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## waynehoskins (Oct 27, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> She also wants keys because she is the primary user of our auditorium and she actually is the head of the drama department as well.



Whoa! King Of The Booth Complex!

She is the departmental chair. She is the director (you conveniently neglected to mention this). She is faculty or at least staff.

You are a student.

And you are saying that you should have keys without question and complaining that your director "wants" keys?

Check your ego at the door, buddy. It's not going to get you anywhere but trouble.


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## zuixro (Oct 27, 2008)

I had a key to the amp rack in high school. (It was a big black locked box on the stage (which doubles as a classroom) The teacher/TD got tired of me interrupting her class to get to the rack, so she gave me a key) The amp rack doubled as our mic storage. But to get into the room after school hours (for a basketball game for instance) I had to find someone with a room key, and borrow it. This was a unique situation. I was the only tech guy at my school, I was good friends with the TD, and we didn't have anything worth stealing.


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## renegadeblack (Oct 27, 2008)

waynehoskins said:


> Whoa! King Of The Booth Complex!
> 
> She is the departmental chair. She is the director (you conveniently neglected to mention this). She is faculty or at least staff.
> 
> ...




willbb123 said:


> In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....



No, I'm not complaining that she wants keys. I am very happy with the fact that she has keys. I'm not complaining about her having keys one bit. My mentioning her wanting and having keys was in response to what was said above. Also, she isn't the director, but that's besides the point. 

Also, now that you mention it, I hope that I'm not coming across as king of the booth  . I've had a couple in the past and all that it gets you is a crew of people that despise you. I teach everyone everything that they want to know (and I've been told that I've taught them things that they don't want to know either). In the past with the other kings of the booth they didn't teach anyone a thing and if they weren't there, I had little idea for how to work things. I want to make sure that doesn't happen when I'm not doing shows as well as when I graduate.


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## arik52 (Oct 27, 2008)

I've been having a similar issue with keys at my high school. We're a student run organization, however, we have four "coaches" who supervise us and teach us how to do these. These adults are responsible for us, and they are the people who have the keys. Currently, I'm Scenery Crewhead, and in charge of the Scenery Crew as well as our space. Because our shop is an open area, we have a tool room and props closet that we lock with all of our power tools and more valuable possessions. Admittedly, those who choose theatre for a profession have to make a living somehow, but my coach is only going to be there one day a week for the next three weeks. The lighting coach, who also has keys, is in a similar situation. The only other person with keys to the tool room is the acting coach, and he only comes four days a week, maximum. Wouldn't it make more sense for the people who are there 100% of the time with the crew, the crewheads, to have the keys? We don't have to use powertools to get work done all of the time, so sometimes we work without coaches there. However, it is impossible to access our materials without keys. The organization does not feel comfortable entrusting keys to the responsible students who step up, apply for, and are selected for leadership positions in the student run organization.


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## Hughesie (Oct 28, 2008)

If anything is ever stolen, the first suspicion is placed on the student with keys. I, used to carry around keys but i realized it wasn't the best idea *insurance companies don't like students* so i returned them.


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## Anonymous067 (Nov 16, 2008)

Kids shouldn't have keys to anything in a highschool. They also shouldn't be locking things on their own.

Keyed power: stupid. Keyed sequencers, possible, but clearly you don't have a high level of understanding that a keyed switch involves re-wiring the booth. 

Often, the key that works in the booth also gets you into other places. Bad Idea when you're lurking around during gym or math class.

Another flaw...usually, (and I know because I often do this), the booth has big windows, and when opened from the booth, allow access to the house. Which, in turn means, the whole theater, dressing rooms, etc etc.

Another thing to point out, sometimes, (well...I do this) the windows are locked with the sliding locks (if that makes sense). Well if you lock each one loosely, about an inch, and have the window key near one side (as we do...hanging up on a hook), you can slide each window down that inch, and you now have four inches (we have four windows) to reach in, grab the key, and unlock the windows from the inside.

On the flip side, its a good idea to lock all the windows tightly to prevent ppl from doing this altogether.


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## WestlakeTech (Nov 17, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> I'm a high school student and we seem to be having some debate about whether or not we (sld and ssd) should have keys to the booth door. We've since installed many locks inside on our sound rack and plan on installing cabinets for our various things as well as locks on the sliding windows that people (including me and the ssd as well as people who screw with our stuff) get in. We have keys to all of the new locks that we've installed so we are able to actually secure things and still get inside.
> 
> Two questions:
> I want to be able to put some sort of keyed lock for the electricity in the booth. Something that I could turn a key on and would complete the circuit, preferably on the cheap. Ideas?
> ...



No, I don't. I'm a Senior, as well as an Assistant Facilities Director (a position I get paid for) and the only keys I've got unlock my apartment door and my mailbox. Often, I wish I had keys to the booth, shop, theatre, classroom, etc. But I can see why I don't. While your Tech (/Theatre) teacher may trust you with his/her life, a student holding keys is just considered too much of a liability by the school and the district. For one thing, if you have a key, you can make a duplicate. Even if it says "do not replicate" or something similar, it's still possible, just not likely, to make a copy. For another, any administration would see it as a potential for pranks and/or other security threats. And I don't blame them. I'm nothing like my peers, but as a whole, we're pretty stupid, unruly, defiant, and careless.

Should you have a key? Not knowing you, your school, or your position (from a personal standpoint, because different places have different standards for certain positions) it's really difficult to say. I think we'd all like one and many of us, myself included, sometimes feel entitled to one. But it's easy to see why you don't have one.


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## LDash (Nov 17, 2008)

or you can always get a full set cut and have your admin keep them until you need them and then take them back to your admin or whoever. that means you won't have to worry about loosing you keys.this is what i have in my school.

and question 2,NO!!! what if the electric was on there is no key in the switch and you need to turn off the power immeditly and you can't because there's no key there?


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 18, 2008)

All through highschool I had no keys of my own, and in college the only students with keys are the students concentrating on stage management, and even then, only a few of them. The keys are tightly controlled. 

Sometimes it would have been a real boon to have keys in highschool, but looking back, either the director/TD wasn't far, so keys were nearby anyway, or I could call security to come unlock a door because the administration of the school knew who I was and knew I could be trusted. It's a privilege that can be easily abused but it's my firm belief that some high school students are worthy of being trusted with such matters, and others will never be. It's really one of those gray areas and a call an instructor can only come to make after knowing the student and their behavior for a while, both in and out of class.


Keys keys keys. Over the summer (different job, different place) we experienced a few break in's in our prop storage/shop area. Turns out the key that opened our shop was actually a common and widely used key on campus, thus, hundreds of people could have gotten in and campus security was powerless. Mind you this happened on one of the campus of one of the most prestigious and expensive private educational institutions in Southeastern Michigan. In the end, we were allowed to go out and buy our own private locks and chains to keep our areas safe. Only me and the TD had keys, and you can bet we didn't have a single other disturbance.


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## gafftaper (Nov 20, 2008)

Wow I'm late to this topic...

First off most public schools have clear rules against giving keys to students. You may be able to talk your way into some keys but you might get yourself and your supervising teacher in trouble if you get caught. 

Second a no to a lot of those extra locks. You shouldn't have to get a key to do everything... especially turning on the power. 

Third here's what I did when I was teaching. I was not able to give out keys to my students... nor did I want to . However I had things like a locking tool cabinet, the mic cabinet, control booth window locks, the expendables cabinet, the hatch to the catwalks... all of these had padlocks on them. No student could get to any of these locks without me first letting them into the room. I had a group of students where were my crew leaders and after proving to me they could be trusted they earned their keys. Now the truth was they still couldn't do anything without being first let in the room so the administration was satisfied. But the feeling of pride and loyalty that was built by giving them keys was amazingly powerful.


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## soundlight (Nov 20, 2008)

I had keys that unlocked the auditorium and the booth, but only once I was in the school. This was rather mandatory as I sometimes ran events in the facility without the drama teacher there - and we didn't like to rely in the janitors because there was something of a tension with that relationship from past events (before I got there). I didn't officially have keys, but I "had keys" and knew that the booth key also opened up several other rooms in the school (classrooms, storage rooms, etc), but never used it for that purpose.

The only extra locks that I bought were a set of 4 padlocks for the sound board, storage cabinets, and the booth flip-down plywood window cover (we didn't have glass...). I had 6 keys made for those padlocks (which were, of course, all keyed alike) and handed them out to the proper authorities including the drama, band, and chorus people, as well as one for the main school key cabinet, 1 hidden in the booth which was always returned when you were done using it, and 1 for my key ring.

I was even given a key to the back auditorium door to get in to the school from time to time by the assistant principal if I was going to be working over the weekend.

Extra locks, other than a few storage/board padlocks that are all keyed the same, are rather pointless. Don't key power, don't key power sequencers, don't key anything other than a door or storage cabinet or cover for a lighting or sound console.


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## derekleffew (Nov 20, 2008)

soundlight said:


> ... Don't key power, don't key power sequencers, don't key anything other than a door or storage cabinet or cover for a lighting or sound console.


Have to disagree with you there, SL. Company switches, certain panels, and the like, should always be locked, except when in use and supervised by a Qualified Person, per the NEC.


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## Sayen (Nov 22, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Have to disagree with you there, SL. Company switches, certain panels, and the like, should always be locked, except when in use and supervised by a Qualified Person, per the NEC.


Do you happen to have a quote of that? Or, so I don't sound too lazy, can you help to point the way towards finding the information and I'll look myself? I'd love to show that to the Powers That Be where I work who refuse to supply locks for items like this, and won't let me put my own lock on it.


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## derekleffew (Nov 22, 2008)

Not exactly on point, but likely close enough: "NFPA 70E emphasizes that equipment should be de-energized before performing work whenever possible. Proper lockout/tag-out procedures ensure that equipment is de-energized and safe." from NFPA 70E, Standard for Electrical Safety Requirements for Employee Workplaces. Thanks for reminding me my copy of _70E_ has gone missing. A similar sentiment: Safety and Health Topics: Control of Hazardous Energy (Lockout/Tagout).


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## Sayen (Nov 22, 2008)

Lockout/Tagout, that's what I should have looked for. Thank you!


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## Wallab (Nov 22, 2008)

renegadeblack said:


> I'm a high school student and we seem to be having some debate about whether or not we (sld and ssd) should have keys to the booth door. We've since installed many locks inside on our sound rack and plan on installing cabinets for our various things as well as locks on the sliding windows that people (including me and the ssd as well as people who screw with our stuff) get in. We have keys to all of the new locks that we've installed so we are able to actually secure things and still get inside.
> 
> Two questions:
> I want to be able to put some sort of keyed lock for the electricity in the booth. Something that I could turn a key on and would complete the circuit, preferably on the cheap. Ideas?
> ...




Well I dont know why you would want a key for power.
but to answer your second question..
Our school does not have a booth. We do have a room where we keep all of our sound and lights. I have a key to that all the time. But it is in the locked auditorium. During shows I have a key that unlocks every door in the auditorium for the week before and the week after the show then i am forced to give it back.


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## anonymous381 (Dec 3, 2008)

I have keys for 
1) Motorized screen
2) Audio Racks
3) Breaker/Dimmer Room
4) Drawers/Filing cabinets (not locked anyway)
5) Control room

1-4 stay in the control room for all the techs to use but I'm the only student with a key to the control room...just because I'm buddy buddy with the maintenance guys and they know I'm always working on somthing in there.


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## Chris15 (Dec 4, 2008)

Now I don't know how clever the people in question are, but to my mind one of the easiest ways of stopping people from playing with DMX would be to unplug the console output... Simpler can in many cases be better...


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## Mirrai (Dec 4, 2008)

Just gonna throw my 2 cents.

When I was in high school two of us had keys for the majority of the school including all of the theatre, for a couple of reasons. First we ran every event there that need sound or wanted to use the stage. Second we basically ran stage crew, our td was always there but she was also scenic and lighting designer so usually was designing things as we built them. We also worked on a lot of the rentals that they school but on se we need acess to anything from the theatre or classrooms depending on the groups that came in. We got the keys from our TD and while the school offically said that we couldn't have them all of the admins knew we did and would ask us to get things for them from locked rooms so it didn't really matter. I am sure they have many hours of camera feed of me unlocking doors.
I know that if I didn't have keys things would not have gotten done there so I think that if a student is responsible and the admins know about it and can moniter them well enough then a couple of more senior people should get the keys.
When it comes to college, I am at the same one as soundman and I think our policy is good, give keys to sm's, ld's, and me's, and then to anyone else upper level that is working on other big projects. Also reminds me that I have still have a booth key out that I need to return.


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## evbox (Dec 5, 2008)

I had a unique experience in high school. My senior year, our TD for years abandoned us. The administration was so wrapped up in the construction of a new building, they couldn't bring themselves to care about high school students operating power tools without supervision. So, the stage manager and I (LD) became the technical directors. An interesting situation. The responsibility of taking care of the young techs fell into our hands (not legally of course). So one of the teachers argued that we needed keys. We got em. And used them responsibly. We also made one backup copy, because eventually the administration revoked our key privileges. Upon doing this they also did us the disservice of not providing us with a TD. We wound up doing everything ourselves. Now, I would argue that high school students do not need keys whatsoever, unless they are placed in charge of a facility. Even then, students with keys is a dangerous game to play.


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## jeffmoss26 (Dec 16, 2008)

Personally, I have been issued three building keys from the university. One key opens a single outside door and the main office. I have other keys for our other campus where I occasionally have to work events. Once in the student union, our boss has a set of keys that we take and carry around for opening meeting rooms, mechanical rooms, and the tech room. We also have breaker panel and sound rack keys. I have my own set of keys for sound racks, breaker panels, and that sort of stuff...comes with working for a sound company in the past.
That being said, if I ever need to get somewhere to do my job, I can get a key or someone to open it. In high school we did not have keys. The tech advisor or custodians had to open everything for us.


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## Footer (Dec 16, 2008)

College is another ball game all together. In a college situation, you are responsible for you. Your profs don't have to be involved in everything you do. In my building, I am legally responsible for the kids that are in my classes and on my stage. In order to keep them safe, I have to control their access to the space and equiptment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## atb3185 (Jan 9, 2009)

From my sophomore year to my senior year of high school I had a master key to the school as well as a key fob to get in all outside doors at any time. At the time, I was working for the school's IT/IS department and for whatever reason they deemed it necessary. I also worked on every production that our school put on for those four years. I did not ask for them at all, they came with the job. I was the only student worker at the entire school.

I cannot tell you how handy these were, but along with the convenience came A LOT of responsibility. My senior year, I had classmembers encouraging me to participate in senior prankery. Looking back on it, I do not think it is ever a good idea for a student to have keys to any part of their school. It is just way too much responsibility to put on any high school student.


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## theatretechguy (Jan 10, 2009)

Yikes. Can't believe they gave a student a Master key to the entire school. Even if you were doing IT work for the campus, if anything came up missing you'd be a suspect and that's a totally unfair position to put a student in. I know some staffers that have been written up because they lost their keys and I know I have anxiety when I lend out my Master key for only a few minutes....


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## Synchronize (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm also in high school and was in the same situation as the original poster. Myself, the LD, and my buddy the SD, were contstantly working in the booth installing cabinates, modifying sound racks, cleaning the dimmers, and what-not that you would do in a light booth. We were both sick of asking a teacher for a key so we went to the administration and worked out a deal that I think is the best possible option in this situation. We agreed to hand a key that opens all theatre related items in the Director's office that either of us have access to at any given time. We can go in there where ever we want and grab the key to do what we need to do. And in theory the Director always knows who has the key. This is absolutly great becuase we now have independence from the teachers but we dont have the responsibility of having a personal key hanging over our heads.

If you can work something like that out with your teachers and administration, thats really the best option.


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## cdub260 (Jan 11, 2009)

theatretechguy said:


> ...if anything came up missing you'd be a suspect...



That's why I neither have nor want keys or an alarm code for the Pageant's front office.


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## jeffmoss26 (Jan 11, 2009)

As a building manager, we have a lot of responsibility. Alarm codes, safe combinations, 2000 dollar ring of keys, and access into every office and room in the entire student union. It's an important position...and when things go missing, we all get on the hot seat.


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## LightingPenguin (Jan 24, 2009)

Its interesting. All the high school teachers/students hear have posted that they don't really have 24/7 access to the booth. For me, its the EXACT opposite. Our door to the booth is metal plated with a numeric key pad on it, and my teacher has entrusted me with the code. If something goes missing I have personally told him to first ask me, as I was almost positively the one in there. I'm the only student who goes in there at anytime other than during shows. As to getting into the physical theatre, thats slightly different. 

You see, our doors to the theatre can be opened by my house key (Don't ask why, I don't know. And no, I didn't make a copy behind our TD's back  ). Now before you go all crazy on me we are building an entirely new theatre (with an amazing fly system. Yes, our TD is trained, but I personally feel worried that it will end up like all the horror stories I hear about high school fly systems), so that will change. There has never been a problem with they way we operate our locks, and I've always texted my teacher when i was going into the booth. Normally, I just go in to test out some lights and do some other odd things, but he knows when I'm in there. So while I do have 24/7 to the theatre, that does not mean i have access to our shop, dressing rooms, or light inventory, dimmer racks (however, I can always ask maintenance to open any of those). However while I do know where the key for the lift is, I am smart enough to know not to use it without a teacher present, not for supervision but for MASSIVE insurance issues, and I fact that I would seriously be putting our TD out of a job REAL fast. 

My TD has placed some real trust in me, because I earned it. He knows he can depend on me, and he knows that I wont take advantage of the position I'm in. I've shown him how dedicated I am, how hard I work, and how much I take personal ownership in and demand people to respect our systems. I respect the space, put things back the way they were, and I keep the booth organized (as much as possible).

It's a dysfunctional system in some regards, but its useful and it serves us well.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Jan 24, 2009)

If your school trusts you guys with the equipment, then you should. I had keys to our booth, everything onstage and the band and choir rooms as well as an outside door while I was in charge in high school. I could basically get into the school anytime to work on things in the theatre. What happens when you need to work on something and no one is around? I'm sure if you made a case for it, you could get something worked out.


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## Sayen (Jan 24, 2009)

One of the places I worked at in a past life used a keycard system - each card had a unique RFID chip in it, and each chip could be assigned permission for specific doors. Every time you entered a door, the computer logged your card. The cards were about $5, and easy to program. Sitting at the master console, I could watch someone walk through the building. I've pushed for two different schools to consider this system when putting up new buildings - if a card is lost, you just cancel the permissions. Users can be given access to different areas on a needs basis, and you always know who to hold responsible based on when a card was used. Other than wiring the system, it wasn't nearly the cost involved with replacing keys, or time lost opening doors, or a dozen other problems.

That's about the only time I would want my students to have keys - for their sake and my theater's. Of course, districts always know better.


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## bwhiteford (Feb 4, 2009)

I would definitely lean toward administration or faculty having keys, and not so much students. This has been a problem at various schools i've worked with, and i've found that the school needs to adopt a key policy and enforce it with no middle ground. Otherwise, it just doesn't work.


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## Omega (Feb 11, 2009)

I have a little under twenty keys to my high school. 
There are some I have no idea what they're used for and three of them are various master keys. I'm sure what keys I have is not accurately recorded as I'm just thrown keys when I need them. And my card key for the outside school doors is actually better than the teachers' since I can get in on Sundays and during mid Summer when they can't. 

Then I have keys for the booth, shop, classrooms, offices, cafeteria, dimmer rack, fly system, table saw, cherry pickers, roof, etc.

But then again, my school is loaded with cameras and all the faculty trust me.
A good idea? Probably not. But they sure are handy.


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## jeffmoss26 (Feb 11, 2009)

I am also a building manager for the student union. When working, we carry a locked ring of keys that opens almost every door in the building. If it was lost it would cost thousands of dollars to rekey everything. We use card swipes on all student organization doors. The person's student ID opens the door. Of course, half the time people misplace their ID so we have to open the door with the submaster key. 
Honestly, I have too many keys to carry around all day...house keys, work keys, sound racks, etc, but they always come in handy.


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## qu1cks1lver56 (Feb 21, 2009)

Wow i wish my high school had an actual TD that knows what theyre doing. I'm the only one at the school that knows anything about the audio and lighting rigs, I wish we had a fly rig, too. But on the topic of keys, I have a key to the auditorium, our booth isnt really a booth so no key is needed to get in there, sucks i know but w/e, and i have a key to both storage rooms for the audio equipment, and some other various school keys.
Important school board people would probably not be happy about me having keys, but I'm not the only student with keys to various places arond school, but all the faculty trusts me, and there are cameras all over the place


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## NickJones (Feb 21, 2009)

renegadeblack said:


> Two questions:
> I want to be able to put some sort of keyed lock for the electricity in the booth. Something that I could turn a key on and would complete the circuit, preferably on the cheap. Ideas?
> 
> Do you think that we should be able to have the keys to the door? It would make our lives so much easier, but they say that its unethical. Other high school studentsn do you have keys?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Q1
Depending on what desk you have, some are lockable, that way you stop people pressing random buttons. Alternatley, most fuse boxes can be locked, find the isolator for you booth and you can kill all the power for it. (Also useful if not locked to get out of handing in assignments on a computer. If there is no power, the computers don't turn on, you CANT give in you assignment that you may or may not have done... Should probably get back on topic) 
Q2
Keys are like passwords, some people will tell anyone who they vauegly know if asked, others never give them out. You are lucky you have your keys, so to make sure they can never take them back, go down to your local locksmith and get a copy made up. Alternatley, suggest a system like "Cyberkey" to your school, it allows logged acess at selected times for selelcted keys. That way you can get in when you wan't but if you are skipping class they know where you are. See, I'm not just teaching bad things.
I set such a bad example....
Nick


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## avkid (Feb 21, 2009)

jeffmoss26 said:


> we carry a locked ring of keys


Silly question time....
What brand are the rings?
I've been looking around and haven't found anything I like.


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## jeffmoss26 (Feb 21, 2009)

My boss gets them from Monarch Coin and Security.


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## mnfreelancer (Feb 21, 2009)

avkid said:


> Silly question time....
> What brand are the rings?
> I've been looking around and haven't found anything I like.



Tamper-Proof Key Rings® Sizes

The old-fashioned way to do this was just to weld keyrings shut. You don't get the advantage of serial numbers though.

Also regarding the idea of duplicating keys to make sure "they can't be taken away" - there is definitely an art to having keys you don't have and using them at the right times and not anything more than that...you will get in to a lot more trouble if you get caught with keys that have already been taken away from you, be careful if you go this route. It's a good trust destroyer.


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## avkid (Feb 21, 2009)

mnfreelancer said:


> The old-fashioned way to do this was just to weld keyrings shut.


 That would do me no good, as I add keys frequently.
I just need to keep certain people from borrowing random keys.

The Key Kop looks perfect.
 Key Kop Cable


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## Stagetechi (Apr 23, 2009)

As former high school students ourselves, I'm sure we can all appreciate this request from a functionality standpoint. However there is the question of liabilty. When I was a student, I was frequently allowed all day use of the building and and padlock keys to our auditorium. All I had to do was have a reason to use them. As our S-LD, I always had reasons to go places other technicians had no business being.

Also when students gain access to keys, there is an inherint liability and responsibility that legally you cannot be held responsible for. As a student, due to my frequent usage of the auditorium master ring I was questioned when our Insight lighting console and the archaic Yhamaha PM1000 audio console turned up missing. Apparently someone had acquired a copy of the building master key and copied it, and passed it down from one graduating class to another. However over the years more and more copies were made of keys that clearly stated DO NOT DUPLICATE. 

Now that I work in educational theatre, I have two building keys beyond my padlock/rack/lockout keys. One is the key to the kingdom that is theatre, and the other is the key to all the kingdoms (district wide). The only key I loan out for students to open storage rooms, control booths, stairwells, etc is the Auditorium Sub-Master Key. And I've never had an issue where this key hasn't been returned in my hand within five minutes. My Great-Grand Master never leaves my side. This is for liability as I am the ultimate authority and responsibility regarding this theatre. If something goes wrong it's my head. 

I'm sure if you have a legitimate need, your TD will loan you his/her key ring or perhaps keeps an extra copy that he could loan to you during your usage. The only difference is that you don't go home with it. They need to know when your in the theatre in case something happens. 

As for your electrical question: First, you may or may not know enough about electrical systems to re-wire the circuit. However chances are you are violating the NEC Code and local building codes for who can install such a device. Also you will most assuradly be violating the union contract for the maintenance department in your building. Getting custodians and skilled maintenance upset with you is not a good thing. But most importantly, as a student regardless of background you should not be opening any live electrical panel/switchboard/receptacle. 

If you have a legitimate need for such a current lockout device, present it to your TD/Auditorium Manager and let him put the final approval on it. Then it will be nice and legal for an electrician to do the install.


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## MircleWorker (May 5, 2009)

waynehoskins said:


> My two cents:
> 
> Answer to question one: no.
> Revised answer to question one: hell no.
> ...




Can I get an Amen?


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## raidertheatre (May 6, 2009)

When I was in high school the drama teacher gave me the keys whenever I needed them to get into the theatres or control booth. Now since I have graduated I am contracted out to work on the sound and light equipment for the school district and they are on thier fourth theatre teacher since mine left in 6 years. Starting about two years ago I have been getting keys to various equipment in the theatres. After this year of making a recomendation of locking up the ladder to the rafters and locking up the cage to the dimmers(they had kids playing with a fire estinguisher around the dimmers) after I repaired everything. I have a key to everything inside the theatre and they said that they will be making me a key for entry access so when they need me to do some work that I will beable to get into the facility so that I dont have to track down a key but right now I can walk into the adminstration and able to check out a key to get in. I have keys that admistration will not let the theatre teacher have becasue they are afraid that they may have more problems with the equipment it they let the theatre teacher have keys to it because we lock up the sound system and light system in two seperate cabniets.


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## Thomas Johnston (Nov 1, 2014)

Hi All,

I am in grade 10 at the high school I attend. The school will not give anyone who is very involved in theatre, keys to the booth. Does anyone know why this would be? It's not just myself it is the student that is our head lighting designer, and myself who is the Assistant Lighting Designer that are mainly the two students who are heavily involved in the theatre. 

Regards,
Thomas


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## techieman33 (Nov 1, 2014)

Thomas Johnston said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am in grade 10 at the high school I attend. The school will not give anyone who is very involved in theatre, keys to the booth. Does anyone know why this would be? It's not just myself it is the student that is our head lighting designer, and myself who is the Assistant Lighting Designer that are mainly the two students who are heavily involved in the theatre.
> 
> ...



There are a lot of very good reasons for which it will never happen. The big one is liability. You should need adult supervision while working in the theater, so why give you keys when the adult already has keys? The last thing they want is a student getting hurt, without an adult there to call for help. They would also be there to stop you from doing something that puts you into a position that you could get hurt. If it came out that you got hurt and there wasn't even a teacher watching you it would get ugly fast. People would be fired, and the potential for lawsuits would be massive.


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## gafftapegreenia (Nov 1, 2014)

When I was a high school student I was student TD and the head of lighting and I was not allowed any keys to anything either. If I wanted access to something, I had to ask my teachers. This was even at a private school were sometimes students get a little more leeway and responsibility. In college, only the Stage Managers or student Production Manager were give key sets (or you knew where the "booth key under the doormat" was kept  ).

So don't feel upset that they won't give you keys. Even as a professional it can be hard to get keys or access when you truly need them.


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## chausman (Nov 2, 2014)

In my non-theater job, while I have some keys, the booth (for a theme park haunted house) is one that no one but my manager and director has. I'm in there every day, with a radio to the rest of the park, and 24/7 cameras everywhere. We still can't get in. Too much liability, especially if the keys go missing.

It's a pain. I know. I have the same "issue" at school as well. Oh well.


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## NewChris (Nov 2, 2014)

I am currently in 11th grade. For the past at least 10 years, the Tech Crew had keys to the booth. This was totally unofficial. We didn't store the board in the booth, just other equipment. Many other people other than tech crew had keys. Many would go in to use the sketchy couch with others.... Our advisor even told us once that he knew we had keys and he was fine with that and we should let him know if we knew people outside of tech crew had keys. Later that year (this was January of last year), we had a lovely meeting with our Vice Principal. Basically he wanted us to hand in our keys. He explained to us about liability and accountability with us having keys. Most of us kept our keys for the rest of the year. At the end of the year, our school started total renovations. Our auditorium is currently gone and will have new locks and new equipment, and a new beautiful auditorium in September. Hopefully we will get keys, but it is a major issue for school to trust kids by giving them keys. 

You have to see this from the administration's point of view. If things go wrong and you get hurt, the school is to blame. A few years ago, we had a girl fall through the drop in ceiling in the booth trying to get into the ceiling to change the house light bulbs. Luckily our advisor was there, but if no teacher was there, that could have been a major issue. Good luck getting keys. I know next year I will be trying to get key to our booth, but it is all about how much the administration trust you. Good luck


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## TheaterEd (Nov 3, 2014)

NewChris said:


> Many would go in to use the sketchy couch with others....



This right here is why I would never give a student a key to any part of the building. Every school theater I have worked in had a couch that I was informed by the students that I should not sit on it because ..........
Generally my first order of business is to store any couches or mattresses in a manner that does not allow them to be used. The last thing I need is to be liable for students behaving inappropriately. I have received large push back from the upperclassmen at both schools, but in the end, they generally understand why I don't trust them and their peers. 

That point aside, a student should never be unsupervised on school property, much less in a theater with all the inherent risks involved in the work we do.


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## Timothy A. Samuelson (Nov 6, 2014)

I've got a student right now that's put me into the similar situation. Do I trust him? Tremendously. Is he knowledgeable about every piece of equipment in all three theaters? Absolutely. Will I ever give him a key? Absolutely not. Maybe after he graduates and the school hires him, but definitely not before then. It comes down to everything mentioned above. Liability. If something goes missing, the admin isn't coming after him, they'll be after me first. We have mag locks on all exterior doors. The theaters themselves stay unlocked as they are used for hundreds of different reasons by different groups. If they want performance lights and sound though, one of our two techs has to be there. All of our consoles are password locked and nobody gets the password (which changes once a month) until they have had training on the equipment. Not even the choir, band, and drama directors. Our equipment storage room not only has a lock on it, but has an inventory control system and everything, even mic cables have to be checked out saying where they're going, who has them, and when they will be returned. If something isn't scanned back in by the due date, I get an alert sent to my phone. I love the system. I can also store manuals and service records on it for each piece of equipment. As far as student access to the space, Every student has my email. If they want to be in the space to do something they can let me know. If it is a legitimate reason, I'll be there to let them in. But again, I'm the one that gets in trouble if something goes wrong. Having keys is a great power trip. But everybody, especially boys, will find an opportunity to impress someone with the, "hey, i've got a key to that building" line. I've done it.


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## gafftaper (Nov 6, 2014)

I run a High School PAC. I've got 9 adult techs on my staff and we share 4 sets of keys. Yes, there are 40 year old adults who don't have their own key to the booth. Nothing against them, you just have to limit the number of keys out there because they can be lost or stolen. It's just how districts operate.


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## chausman (Nov 6, 2014)

gafftaper said:


> I run a High School PAC. I've got 9 adult techs on my staff and we share 4 sets of keys. Yes, there are 40 year old adults who don't have their own key to the booth. Nothing against them, you just have to limit the number of keys out there because they can be lost or stolen. It's just how districts operate.



How do you manage that? The most senior people get keys? The first four guys in the building get keys today?


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## gafftaper (Nov 6, 2014)

I keep one set for myself. I have two light and sound guys who rotate through a church rental every sunday. The two sound guys have keys. The fourth set rotates depending on who is working the event. Other than that it's just a matter of who is most convenient to come pick up or trade off that extra set of keys. 

Although in high school it may be a big deal to be the one carrying the set of keys, when you are over 30 and this is your job, you really don't care just as long as someone is there with the keys to let you in so you can do your work.


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## techieman33 (Nov 6, 2014)

gafftaper said:


> when you are over 30 and this is your job, you really don't care just as long as someone is there with the keys to let you in so you can do your work.



And sometimes your happy you don't have the keys, so your not traipsing all over the building unlocking doors for people.


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## gafftaper (Nov 6, 2014)

techieman33 said:


> And sometimes your happy you don't have the keys, so your not traipsing all over the building unlocking doors for people.


Oh yeah. There's nothing better than being able to say, "Sorry, I don't have the keys to the band and choir rooms."


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## MNicolai (Nov 6, 2014)

There are phases people may find themselves going through when it comes to keys. The first is yearning for the day when you have keys. Then comes frustration when you're not ready for them (so they say). Then you get THE KEYS and your life IS CHANGED. For about a minute and a half. Then they tell you how much it costs if they have to rekey all the doors because you lost your copy. Shortly after getting the keys in your possession comes the subconscious phase of wanting to let everyone know, you have THE KEYS. This period may introduce itself in any number of ways, but it usually involves something like wearing the keys on a carabiner hooked to your belt loop. As you walk through the theater and the backstage hallways, your keys CLANG and JINGLE together -- alerting everyone you've entered into their proximity and that you must be IMPORTANT because, AFTER ALL, you have THE KEYS.

After a few months or year, you grow out of this phase and no longer insist on your keys being so readily accessible as to dangle from your belt loops. In fact, resentment begins to build. THE KEYS bring you pain and confusion. Somebody doesn't close a door fully until it latches and something goes missing. YOU THERE -- with THE KEYS -- _Why_ didn't YOU lock THE DOOR with THE KEYS -- YOUR KEYS?! (After all, it's your fault for not checking all thirty-three doors had been locked and latched shut the night before when it was 2AM and after a 19-hour day just wanted to collapse into the cushy wonder and amazement that is your bed. Or even your couch. OK, at this point, you'd have settled for as much as a carpeted floor to take a nap on before you had to be up again in 5 hours.).

Let us not forget the unending irritation of when other people know YOU have THE KEYS, and other people miss no opportunity to ask YOU to open THE DOORS. Enough time and irritation passes until one day you reconcile your sense of duty and dilligence with your apathy toward THE KEYS, and suddenly you find yourself just whoring out your keys to anyone who will take them so you don't have to go open the doors for other people every fifteen minutes (and it's almost never just one door they want opened, and the second door they want opened is always on the other side of the building.).

We also mustn't forget about THE ALARM. Now that you have THE KEYS, you also may have THE CODE that arms and disarms the building's security system. THE CODE seems like a blessing at first. Then one night you try to leave and you can't because THE CODE doesn't work. Somewhere, a cryptically labeled door you now know as "SW DR A15R" is either open or has a faulty sensor and you cannot leave until you find your mysterious "SW DR A15R" and show it who's boss. Naturally, you begin by going to the southwest corner of the building and find nothing. Out of screaming desperation, you begin pushing doors open and closing them again. You walk back across the building to control panel for THE ALARM, and find THE CODE still refuses to work. You begin walking around the building and opening and closing all the doors until stupid luck leads you to the offending faulty sensor and closing the door a second time resolves the error code.

GLEE! With THE CODE entered into THE ALARM, you can shut off the lights and be on your merry way! Happy day! Except that by now, it's 3:30AM and you've just about had it. Also, your car is out of gas. When you closed down the theater, you hopped in your car and drove around to the end of the building where THE ALARM resides and left your car running because you were only going to step in for a minute to sign out and arm the system. When you began searching for "SW DR A15R", you knew your car was running but figured it would only take you 10min tops to get that problem solved. In your exhausted stupor, 10min turned into an hour and your car was already low on gas because you haven't had a waking moment in the last week to so much as swing by a gas station. Moments before you're about to collapse to the ground beside your stalled car, you begin laughingly maniacally. In that kind of way you laugh only when you imagine how much fun everyone's going to have at your expense when they find out why your car is stalled in front of the main offices and that you slept in the theater last night under the desk for the lighting console.

Soon thereafter in a fit of rage and unabated willfull negligence, you toss THE KEYS into THE RIVER and begin chanting over and over "I DON'T HAVE THE KEYS FOR THAT SORRY" while giggling until your friend slaps you and you flip back into reality. The end.


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## NewChris (Nov 6, 2014)

MNicolai said:


> There are phases people may find themselves going through when it comes to keys. The first is yearning for the day when you have keys. Then comes frustration when you're not ready for them (so they say). Then you get THE KEYS and your life IS CHANGED. For about a minute and a half. Then they tell you how much it costs if they have to rekey all the doors because you lost your copy. Shortly after getting the keys in your possession comes the subconscious phase of wanting to let everyone know, you have THE KEYS. This period may introduce itself in any number of ways, but it usually involves something like wearing the keys on a carabiner hooked to your belt loop. As you walk through the theater and the backstage hallways, your keys CLANG and JINGLE together -- alerting everyone you've entered into their proximity and that you must be IMPORTANT because, AFTER ALL, you have THE KEYS.
> 
> After a few months or year, you grow out of this phase and no longer insist on your keys being so readily accessible as to dangle from your belt loops. In fact, resentment begins to build. THE KEYS bring you pain and confusion. Somebody doesn't close a door fully until it latches and something goes missing. YOU THERE -- with THE KEYS -- _Why_ didn't YOU lock THE DOOR with THE KEYS -- YOUR KEYS?! (After all, it's your fault for not checking all thirty-three doors had been locked and latched shut the night before when it was 2AM and after a 19-hour day just wanted to collapse into the cushy wonder and amazement that is your bed. Or even your couch. OK, at this point, you'd have settled for as much as a carpeted floor to take a nap on before you had to be up again in 5 hours.).
> 
> ...


Someone needed to vent.. you brought a smile to my face. Totally relatable.


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## TheaterEd (Nov 7, 2014)

MNicolai said:


> There are phases people may find themselves going through when it comes to keys. The first is yearning for the day when you have keys. Then comes frustration when you're not ready for them (so they say). Then you get THE KEYS and your life IS CHANGED. For about a minute and a half. Then they tell you how much it costs if they have to rekey all the doors because you lost your copy. Shortly after getting the keys in your possession comes the subconscious phase of wanting to let everyone know, you have THE KEYS. This period may introduce itself in any number of ways, but it usually involves something like wearing the keys on a carabiner hooked to your belt loop. As you walk through the theater and the backstage hallways, your keys CLANG and JINGLE together -- alerting everyone you've entered into their proximity and that you must be IMPORTANT because, AFTER ALL, you have THE KEYS.
> 
> After a few months or year, you grow out of this phase and no longer insist on your keys being so readily accessible as to dangle from your belt loops. In fact, resentment begins to build. THE KEYS bring you pain and confusion. Somebody doesn't close a door fully until it latches and something goes missing. YOU THERE -- with THE KEYS -- _Why_ didn't YOU lock THE DOOR with THE KEYS -- YOUR KEYS?! (After all, it's your fault for not checking all thirty-three doors had been locked and latched shut the night before when it was 2AM and after a 19-hour day just wanted to collapse into the cushy wonder and amazement that is your bed. Or even your couch. OK, at this point, you'd have settled for as much as a carpeted floor to take a nap on before you had to be up again in 5 hours.).
> 
> ...


Thank you for that Mike. I think I found my new audition monologue .

I was torn with my new job, because at my last place of employment, every key was a fight to get. Whereas here, day one I was given a Master key to the building and told not to tell anyone what it was...... At this point, its much more of a curse than a blessing, and as someone who just finally put gas in the car, I very much needed that laugh.

Well done.


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## techieman33 (Nov 10, 2014)

You just had to tell that story didn't you . I ended up running out of gas tonight, it showed I had a range of 35 miles when I pulled into the parking lot tonight for the show, I figured I was fine and would just fuel up when I left. That plan was a total failure, I was facing downhill just enough that the fuel pickup wouldn't pickup any fuel. I guess at least I only had to walk a block to earn the pleasure of buying a way overpriced gas can from the gas station.


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## Timothy A. Samuelson (Nov 10, 2014)

MNicolai said:


> There are phases people may find themselves going through when it comes to keys. The first is yearning for the day when you have keys. Then comes frustration when you're not ready for them (so they say). Then you get THE KEYS and your life IS CHANGED. For about a minute and a half. Then they tell you how much it costs if they have to rekey all the doors because you lost your copy. Shortly after getting the keys in your possession comes the subconscious phase of wanting to let everyone know, you have THE KEYS. This period may introduce itself in any number of ways, but it usually involves something like wearing the keys on a carabiner hooked to your belt loop. As you walk through the theater and the backstage hallways, your keys CLANG and JINGLE together -- alerting everyone you've entered into their proximity and that you must be IMPORTANT because, AFTER ALL, you have THE KEYS.
> 
> After a few months or year, you grow out of this phase and no longer insist on your keys being so readily accessible as to dangle from your belt loops. In fact, resentment begins to build. THE KEYS bring you pain and confusion. Somebody doesn't close a door fully until it latches and something goes missing. YOU THERE -- with THE KEYS -- _Why_ didn't YOU lock THE DOOR with THE KEYS -- YOUR KEYS?! (After all, it's your fault for not checking all thirty-three doors had been locked and latched shut the night before when it was 2AM and after a 19-hour day just wanted to collapse into the cushy wonder and amazement that is your bed. Or even your couch. OK, at this point, you'd have settled for as much as a carpeted floor to take a nap on before you had to be up again in 5 hours.).
> 
> ...


That just made my day. I've been there. My greatest joy lately has been returning to one of my old haunts (sans keys) and being able to say, "nope. I don't have keys to anything anymore. Not even the paper towel dispensers."

techieman33 said:


> You just had to tell that story didn't you . I ended up running out of gas tonight, it showed I had a range of 35 miles when I pulled into the parking lot tonight for the show, I figured I was fine and would just fuel up when I left. That plan was a total failure, I was facing downhill just enough that the fuel pickup wouldn't pickup any fuel. I guess at least I only had to walk a block to earn the pleasure of buying a way overpriced gas can from the gas station.


Right?! I end up spending more on the gas can than on the gas I'm putting in it. I always justify it by, "well, I'll just keep this can in the truck so if it ever happens again, I already have one" nope. never works. Somebody usually borrows it two or three days before I end up needing it.


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## LavaASU (Nov 10, 2014)

"Right?! I end up spending more on the gas can than on the gas I'm putting in it. I always justify it by, "well, I'll just keep this can in the truck so if it ever happens again, I already have one" nope. never works. Somebody usually borrows it two or three days before I end up needing it.[/QUOTE]

Thats so true of baby generator ones too. Every show with a home depot/lowes rental generator needs one since the gas in them last oh about 3 hours. Somehow the empty can that costs about $30 can never be found for the next show (no, no one's stealing it for the gas, we give whatever gas is left to someone on the crew instead of saving it).


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## RileyChilds (Nov 11, 2014)

As a student myself I feel your pain, I have easy access to keys but there are always those times that no one is around...but no a person who is under 18 and cannot assume liability should not ever have keys to a facility. Also, please do not install something as evil as a key lock to the power, there is no reason for such a thing if the booth is properly secured!

EDIT: I do have alarm codes for the school and theatre because I have been known to work late and have to set the alarm before I leave.


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## DuckJordan (Nov 17, 2014)

Actually Riley there is a good reason to have a lock on a power disconnect, in a locked booth. To keep people who should have access to the booth but not the qualification of messing with power out.


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## kwithnok (Nov 17, 2014)

i have access to auditorium keys that i can sign out at the office. They allow me to equipment in the music room as well. Other than that, there is always a janitor on duty if im in the building.


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