# new to busking



## vidfan (Jun 5, 2008)

im busking a concert series this summer and have figured out my light board(nsi 7532) and have coppys of all my manuals.my main hang up right now is color combinations. using a basic r p b a clear more spicificly roco 26 46 80 21 58 59.any help or refrense material i could look to would be appreciate.its a 60k parcan set up with 2 blinders.32 cans us and 32 ds.have done graduations and simple stach and cue in theater so i understand washing stages and shadow manipulation.ty for your time(gota run dimmers on fire) bad joke i know


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## lieperjp (Jun 5, 2008)

vidfan said:


> im busking a concert series this summer and have figured out my light board(nsi 7532) and have coppys of all my manuals.my main hang up right now is color combinations. using a basic r p b a clear more spicificly roco 26 46 80 21 58 59.any help or refrense material i could look to would be appreciate.its a 60k parcan set up with 2 blinders.32 cans us and 32 ds.have done graduations and simple stach and cue in theater so i understand washing stages and shadow manipulation.ty for your time(gota run dimmers on fire) bad joke i know



Since you've dabbled in lights before, you'll probably know this, but be sure to set submasters, and lots of them, and label them well!!! That's how I do lights on the fly. Another thing I always keep in mind is how the colors will conflict with the backdrops, but that's only because at most concerts I do lights for there is a yellow curtain as a backdrop. (Ugly, I know) Of course, there probably is a better way, in which case one of the regulars will inform you. 

What board are you using, what's the venue, and what type of music?


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## gafftaper (Jun 5, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> What board are you using, what's the venue, and what type of music?



Vidfan said an NSI 7532

According to the website this board is "Catering to the advanced lighting designer." Uh... yeah.  

Vidfan, the good news is it's a very basic board so it shouldn't be too hard learn. The bad news is it's a very basic board so it can't do much to help you look good. It also may be between complicated and impossible to do more than record or playback from a submaster or run a basic chase. It's an older board, the manual was copy written in 1993 and revised in 1998. Have fun with it and learn. You'll get to use a smarter board down the road.


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## soundlight (Jun 5, 2008)

The MC7532 is a good board for busking with a parcan rig, due to the flexibility of the setups. If you use chases (which can be loaded in to any of the 32 subs, if I remember correctly), you can use the tap button to set the rate, so you're chasing in time with the music. It's very easy to record subs (press record button...press bump button...Same as ETC Express), and recording effects isn't much harder. I just spec'd one of these boards for an install at one of my venues at school, so I've been reading up on it quite a bit. This board is actually my favorite board for concert busking with parcans. Make sure to patch your specials in to the first 32 faders so that when you're in 32x32 mode (32 channels in top row, 32 subs/effects in bottom row), you can access your specials. You can actually set up a cue stack in the board, and if I remember correctly, it uses a primitive (but easy-to-use) form of preset focuses as well, and has 16 cue stacks accessible (not simultaneously, though). If you've ever used an NSI MLC16, it's from the same series and has the same brains. Insanely easy to use, and you can get good results in no time. Exceedingly good board for the price. When it was introduced, with the features that it had, it was rather advanced, and still is for good consoles in the price range.


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## highschooltech (Jun 5, 2008)

As everyone else as said the NSI is great for this. The only problem is that you have more than 32 lights so you'll have to double up. The biggest thing with the board will be to record looks you like and to have fun with it.


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## soundlight (Jun 5, 2008)

This is how I'd approach the situation:

Channels 1-32: anything that needs to be accessed individually. If you happen to get any lekos for specials, or if you use parcans for specials, they should go in the first few faders. Also, you probably want your blinders on the top row as well. The bottom row can contain your backlight pars, which you won't need to access individually nearly as often, because they'll just be a back wash. Here's how I'd do subs: first few would be color washes, second few color chases. Then I'd do some useful color combination effects/chases (blue purple, red amber, amber purple are the ones that I'd choose), and any other lights (ACLs if you get 'em, blinders, and so forth) that you'd like to group together to have on one fader. Leave the rest open for individual groups of lights that you set up on a per band basis by listening to their music beforehand and setting up some scenes during sound check.

Again, this is my opinion, you may use a completely different method.

For the color chases, you basically chase across the US truss with a single color. So for the purple chase, you start with the first purple fixture on one end for the first step, the next purple fixture in line for the next step, and so on. If you have 8 of a color, you start with the first and fifth fixtures on in the first step, the second and sixth fixtures on in the second step, etc. I've found that this works well for having some effects on stage. For the color combo chases you can set up different arrangements on the US truss to chase. I never do much with the frontlight, if you hadn't noticed yet, it's usually a wash of warm, cool, and neutral, and lekos or some other sort of spots for the band members.


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## derekleffew (Jun 6, 2008)

Fast songs=bright: pink (or white). Slow songs=dim: blue (or congo).

That's all there is to it. Bring up your blinders when the lead talks to the crowd. It's nice to have a special (or followspot) on each band member for solos, but not absolutely necessary. Another tip:

Light the Money!​


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## vidfan (Jun 6, 2008)

Will repost latter. Post under construction.


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## Van (Jun 6, 2008)

Not to be an ass, but seriously;


vidfan said:


> ]to <To> answere <answer> a couple of questions first its a smaler <smaller> venue in a watter <water> park and the music changes for each event_(countery <Country> and rock <Rock> mostly) my biggist <biggest> band will be lifehouse<Lifehouse>.. its <It's>out doors with a 15 foot hang and i<I> just got some good news im <I'm> on a fatfrog <Fatfrog> from here on out_(i<I> know over kill<overkill> but im <I'm> not gona <going to> nock <knock> the exp<exp.>) i<I> noticed its<it's> a pain to locate a manual on the frog series of desks but got lucky digging thru<through> the shop. (if<If> any one<anyone> neds<needs> a copy i<I> will e mail<Email>. it <It>covers<;> frog<Frog,> fatfrog <Fatfrog,> leapfrog<Leapfrog,> and bullfrog,<Bullfrog> issue 6 march <March>2004)_for slow songs i<I> use a basic 4 or 5 count for light changes_(ie <i.e.>blue 2 3 4 5 amber 2 3 4 5 etc.) and have assined <assigned>bump butons for chases and manualy<manually> drum out most of my color changes.<,> with the frog <Frog> ill <I'll>spend a lot more time prog the desk and make my first user profile to be saved to floppy. thank yall<y'all> for the help but i <I>ota <? gota? Have to, Ought to ? >read a nother<another> 200 pages of teck <tech>manuals_(agg)_its<it's> the life tho<though>.<,>wouldnt trade it for any thing<anything>.


 
Derek, I'm more than a bit surprised at you.:neutral:


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## derekleffew (Jun 6, 2008)

Van said:


> ...Derek, I'm more than a bit surprised at you.:neutral:


I've taken a vow to wait at least one week before scaring off new members, though I did postulate whether that post was intended to give me a coronary. But still, Van, your mother and lieperjp and I are SO proud of you! Dave-Where'd all the alternate smilies go? 

Also Van, it should be a colon after "covers": not a semi-colon; and you overlooked the misspelling of "butons".


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## Van (Jun 6, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> .........
> Also Van, it should be a colon after "covers": not a semi-colon; and you overlooked the misspelling of "butons".


 
I bow to the greater wisdom. 

And Just to be clear. I'm really not being an ass, I screw up spelling and punctuation all the time. Everything in lower case and 30% of words mispelled, however, makes things diffcult to read and results most of the time in me not reading them. I want participation from all. My standards are not as high as Dereks, but please, you are a Technician, not a Tecknition. 
Where have all the smilies gone.......... Isn't that an old Hymn?


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## vidfan (Jun 6, 2008)

You got me there. I think maby i use spellcheck to much. Can y'all forgive a little southern boy for the grammer capacity of his high school? No?
Ahh well figurin i auta mosy down to d lokal watrn hole and get a beer to warsh away my sorrow.(all in fun, but next time i won't forget the spellcheck.)


If you can't laugh at your self who are you going to laugh at?(besides me of course)
Also Van thank you for the link.


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## Van (Jun 6, 2008)

Hey you see some of the posts where Derek has nailed me to the wall for punctuation and grammar.< My Mom was an English teacher, after all. 'Couse that was in Oklahoma.> 

Thanks for taking it good naturedly.
And BTW Welcome Aboard!


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## lieperjp (Jun 6, 2008)

vidfan said:


> You got me there. I think maby i use spellcheck to much. Can y'all forgive a little southern boy for the grammer capacity of his high school? No?
> Ahh well figurin i auta mosy down to d lokal watrn hole and get a beer to warsh away my sorrow.(all in fun, but next time i won't forget the spellcheck.)
> 
> 
> ...



You should download Firefox!!! It has a built in spell checker... Saves me!


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## vidfan (Jun 6, 2008)

Im on a friends computer so i won't mess with his setings, but my laptop is on the way. It's a must now that I am moving on up to Frogs and Avos, plus I want to keep a copy of wysiwyg with me on site. In the meantime i'll just have to think and type at the same time.(do you cap i in i'll I forget.)I thought about fixing the post but couldn't bring myself to do it.(it looks like dimmer code sorta) And y'all spent so much time correcting it for me.

words to kill 1.gota 2.fixin 3.ain't 4.aughta ,but i'll never give up on y'all


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## gafftaper (Jun 6, 2008)

Vidfan, first off, I have a minor reading disorder which makes spelling difficult for me. However, thanks to Firefox you'll have a hard time finding spelling errors in my posts. I also have a masters degree and I've worked VERY hard to over come my spelling problems. 

Some of the "adults" around here have taken up the cause of encouraging you younger folks to work on your communication skills. One of the most important things you need to be a good stage technician or designer is communication skills. Spelling, grammar, and punctuation are an important part of that. If I can't understand what you are writing, you are going to have a hard time getting a job and you are going to have a hard time keeping jobs or getting promoted. 

I know that it's just the internet and you are used to using lots of slang and short cuts. But this place is a little different. We have some real pro's who hang out here and people who are known around the industry for their work. We want to raise the level of discussion above the usual text messaging slang. If you were invited to a special seminar where people who are well known in the industry would answer your questions no matter how simple or complex... you would want to try to look good right? You would want to impress them a bit right? Well guess what, CB is that kind of place. 

We understand that you are young and will make mistakes in your writing. We all do... except Derek. You also aren't being graded here. But the point is this is that while you are learning about the craft you also should be learning about how to handle yourself professionally too. 

And have fun with that Fatfrog!


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## soundlight (Jun 6, 2008)

vidfan said:


> Im on a friends computer so i won't mess with his setings, but my laptop is on the way. It's a must now that I am moving on up to Frogs and Avos, plus I want to keep a copy of wysiwyg with me on site. In the meantime i'll just have to think and type at the same time.(do you cap i in i'll I forget.)I thought about fixing the post but couldn't bring myself to do it.(it looks like dimmer code sorta) And y'all spent so much time correcting it for me.
> 
> words to kill 1.gota 2.fixin 3.ain't 4.aughta ,but i'll never give up on y'all



Ah, Avolites. Hopefully you'll like 'em. As many people say, either you really like 'em, or really hate 'em. I fall in to the first camp. They're great for busking shows with some movers and a bunch of conventionals. I've only worked on a pearl for a short amount of time, but I liked it alot. I still think that the 7532 is the best desk for busking a parcan rig, but if you throw any movers in, it's Avo all the way if the show is busked.


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## vidfan (Jun 6, 2008)

This site is a godsend for rookies and I look to allways hold myself to a high standard, whatever the case may be. I am not one of those people who will get bent out of shape becouse people correct me, sometimes you have to learn that way. I'm not realy much of a typer(text or other wise). I will use posting on this site as practice.

You want to hear some thing funny? I was almost a published writer.


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## Van (Jun 6, 2008)

vidfan said:


> words to kill 1.gota 2.fixin 3.ain't 4.aughta ,but i'll never give up on y'all


 
I'm right there with ya! Y'all is an official dictionary word where I grew up.


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## vidfan (Jun 6, 2008)

Y'all just sound so much better then "hey you guys"
It's been fun but I think I should get back to reading manuals. It's just getting good, I think the super user is going to over take the submaster.Oh and maby in this chapter the chase will catch up to the flash.Mmmm good stuff.


a book a day keeps the bill man away


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## Van (Jun 7, 2008)

vidfan said:


> Y'all just sound so much better then "hey you guys"
> ......


 
Yes English is a very screwed up language. In English "you" can be an appellation to one or many. In French you have "Vous", the plural form or "tu" for the informal singular version. How many fights, arguments and just plain misunderstandings have taken place over the years jus' 'cause folks is afraid afeared to say y'all ?


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## vidfan (Jun 8, 2008)

And have fun with that Fatfrog! [/QUOTE]


No, not this time. 1/4 of the butons would stick in the on position, I was sent with the wrong disk, and to top it off......the whole US SL section blinked out. Other wierdness too like; why would my US and DS lights come on at the same time. The Socapexs arn't even touching.
Well for every problem a fix i say. Butons=Fingernails. Lights=softpatch. As for the last problem thankfully I had spares to plug the offending lights into.
With that bieng said I'm of to bed. Outdoor showes in the south will zap your will to be awake.


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## gafftaper (Jun 8, 2008)

vidfan said:


> This site is a godsend for rookies and I look to allways hold myself to a high standard, whatever the case may be. I am not one of those people who will get bent out of shape becouse people correct me, sometimes you have to learn that way. I'm not realy much of a typer(text or other wise). I will use posting on this site as practice.



That's exactly why some of us have been pushing for a little higher standard that the usual internet slang. Also with all the Aussie English we read, my vote would be to leave you alone on the use of Y'all as an acceptable regional dialect word. It's the other stuff that really twists Derek's Underoos.


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## derekleffew (Jun 8, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> ...Also with all the Aussie English we read, my vote would be to leave you alone on the use of Y'all as an acceptable regional dialect word. It's the other stuff that really twists Derek's Underoos.


Doesn't seem proper to use "Aussie" and "Underoos" in the same thought.

 Y'all come. (Y'all come.) You all come to see us when you can.

BTT: vidfan, it seems to me that, unless your plot includes MLs, the MC7532 would be a better board for busking than a FatFrog, but I like that their OLE is/was called PhantomFrog. 

Did you learn the term "busking" here or had you heard that before?


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## vidfan (Jun 8, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> BTT: vidfan, it seems to me that, unless your plot includes MLs, the MC7532 would be a better board for busking than a FatFrog, but I like that their OLE is/was called PhantomFrog.
> 
> Did you learn the term "busking" here or had you heard that before?



I would have to agre with the MC7534 bieng more adapt at geting you up and runing quickly, but if I'm going to play with movers I had better get familer with the frog series. Also not my call, you get what the boss man gives you.

I first learned the term busking back in my hippie days while playing my hand drum in the park for money, but first heard it applied to lighting while reading Automated Lighting by Richard Cadena. I'm a book reading demon 

Thats why it bothers me so much about the state of my writing/ typing skills.
If you met me you would notice that i have a large vocabulary. I just suck at spelling and some proper puncuations. But what are you gona do? Complain, or work on it? Personily I work on it, same as all of my other flaws. I'm still not using spellcheck. I don't get to use most of the words I know and have to strugle to find a word I know how to spell to get the same thought across.

Any sugestions on a good book for dimmer programing? Thats going to be my next step after i get familier with the desks that I'm using.


When its all said and done all you have is time.


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## derekleffew (Jun 8, 2008)

vidfan said:


> ...Any suggestions on a good book for dimmer programming? ...


First, and I think this was brought up before, use Firefox as your browser, as it will underline misspelled words in red as you compose your message. This will help teach you to improve your spelling.

Second, I don't understand what "dimmer programming" means. If you're referring to softpatching, just check the console's User Manual. If you're asking about Moving Light programming, Brad Schiller's book, _The Automated Lighting Programmer's Handbook_, is one of the best.

edit: "Words to kill: 1.gota, 2.fixin, 3.ain't, 4.aughta; but i'll never give up on y'all."
I don't feel you need to kill those words, just spell them correctly and use them, sparingly--for effect, rather than constantly. 1) gotta, 2) fixin' [add the apostrophe after the "n" to show people you know there's s'posed to be a "g" there], 3) ain't [use very sparingly] 4) oughta. "Y'all" is perfectly acceptable good Southern American English, but avoid other Foxworthy-isms, such as "Cheet?" (Did you eat?) and "jawantu?" (Do you want to?) Still waiting on the list of alternate smilies. <insert "foot-tap" smilie here>


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## vidfan (Jun 8, 2008)

What is PhantomFrog? I went to check it out and it needed to be down loaded and sence I'm on a friends computer I can't check it out. Will i need it to make disks for the Frog? 

Also some knuckle head stole my OM for the Frog series at the last show. Does any one know where to find a copy? Could realy use that before my boss returns from vacation. I had the only shop copy.

Troubles a brewin and problems a stewing. Beer and soup any one?


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## soundlight (Jun 8, 2008)

vidfan said:


> Also some knuckle head stole my OM for the Frog series at the last show. Does any one know where to find a copy? Could realy use that before my boss returns from vacation. I had the only shop copy.



http://www.actlighting.com/Zero88/Frog/Manual/Frog__Issue_6C.pdf


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## vidfan (Jun 8, 2008)

Thats what i thought. The LD at two shows back said that my blinder problem was becouse of the dimmer set up ,but as i under stand it it's all hard wired. Aside from running a parcan set up with out a desk(done that once before, set peramiters at full , come back latter and set them at 0% ). As I'm sure you can tell my under standing at this time is hazey at best. Just a start up book so I can better under stand the full function , and troubleshooting aspect of it. I have found any monkey can hit the GO button, but a good troubleshooter is always needed.

My rule for bieng on other peoples computers states that I don't 1 down load 2 don't accept 3 dont change anything ,so untill my laptop showes up it dictionary in one hand keyboard in the other.


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## gafftaper (Jun 9, 2008)

Vidfan, even the most advanced dimmers just have very basic manuals. You can adjust the way the dimmer acts in dimmer curve settings, some dimmers have several preset modes that work differently, for example a mode for dimming fluorescents, there are also things you can do to adjust what source the dimmer listens to first... but that's about it. I don't think there are any books on programing dimmers. I suggest you go to the ETC and Strand websites and read the dimmer manuals and post your questions in this forum. If you are interested in control of dimmers then I suggest Practical DMX by Nick Mobsby. It's a great book about the history, present, and future of protocols for controlling lighting systems. It's also much easier to read and understand than it sounds. 

_Derek if you know what the code is they still work    _


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## derekleffew (Jun 9, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> ...If you are interested in control of dimmers then I suggest Practical DMX by Nick Mobsby. It's a great book about the history, present, and future of protocols for controlling lighting systems. It's also much easier to read and understand than it sounds. ...


It's also over-priced, incomplete, out of date, based on UK practices which are not necessarily the same in the US, and written by someone who had absolutely nothing to do with what we all have come to know and love/hate as "ANSI E1.11 - 2004 Entertainment Technology - USITT DMX512-A - Asynchronous Serial Digital Data Transmission Standard for Controlling Lighting Equipment and Accessories". One can purchase the real document for $40 ($30 for ESTA members).


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## gafftaper (Jun 9, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> It's also over-priced, incomplete, out of date, based on UK practices which are not necessarily the same in the US, and written by someone who had absolutely nothing to do with what we all have come to know and love/hate as "ANSI E1.11 - 2004 Entertainment Technology - USITT DMX512-A - Asynchronous Serial Digital Data Transmission Standard for Controlling Lighting Equipment and Accessories". One can purchase the real document for $40 ($30 for ESTA members).


_
Derek I respectfully disagree. You trashed that like Michael Gillette was the author. Just because he didn't help create DMXA doesn't mean he can't help explain it. _ 
I should clarify that this is a 2 year old book and as a result it speaks about ACN and RDM as future concepts. They have changed a little since then and they are now coming into the real world, so yes it is a bit out of date. And at $35 it's a bit expensive. However, I have to say I am yet to find a book that explains the history of control systems, DMX, and ethernet based control as well as this one. The standard is good to read, but it isn't a good read. This book is easy to read and understand.


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## derekleffew (Jun 9, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> _..._However, I have to say I have yet to find a book that explains the history of control systems, DMX, and ethernet based control as well as this one. ...


For history, _The Speed of Light_, Linda Essig. For application, _Control Systems for Live Entertainment_, John Huntington. Neither goes that much further in explaining DMX than the book vidfan has already read (but should own): _Automated Lighting_, by Richard Cadena.
Just my 2¢.


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## vidfan (Jun 19, 2008)

explaining DMX than the book vidfan has already read (but should own): Automated Lighting, by Richard Cadena.

I have moved beyond dimmers at this point. Just got some bad info. Currently I am looking in to getting my laptop up and running. I want to use it as a visulizer and found a DMX to USB adapter so maby I can use it as a back up controler in a pinch.
Just need to know how much RAM is recomended. I can double the RAM to 1 GB, but do I have to?




I am ok , I ate yesterday and I'll sleap tomorrow,so lets get this show on the road.


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## derekleffew (Jun 19, 2008)

vidfan said:


> ...I want to use it as a visualizer and found a DMX to USB adapter so maybe I can use it as a back up controller in a pinch.
> Just need to know how much RAM is recomended...


Male end first, there, vidfan. You found a USB to DMX adapter. A DMX to USB adapter would be required to take a "real" console's output into a visualizer. For your purposes, if you're running PhantomFrog and Wyg or ESP (or FrogViz, whatever it's called) on the same machine, no adapter is required. A better way might be to have the console software on one machine and the pre-viz software on another machine and have the two networked. 

As to how much RAM is needed, the virtual console software's needs are minimal. For the best viz softwares, fancy-schmancy video cards with at least 4Mb of VRAM are recommended. A colleague runs Hog3PC and Vision on the same machine with 2Gb of RAM, and all works fine. Of course the rule is to max out the machine with as much RAM as the machine can accept.


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## lieperjp (Jun 19, 2008)

Derek, in your signature, don't you mean "Grammar Enforcem*E*nt Officer?"


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## derekleffew (Jun 19, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> Derek, in your signature, don't you mean "Grammar Enforcem*E*nt Officer?"


Care to read a little closer, there, lieperjp?


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## lieperjp (Jun 19, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Care to read a little closer, there, lieperjp?



Yeah... I saw offiser.

One at a time. One at a time.


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## derekleffew (Jun 19, 2008)

Okay, next?


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## vidfan (Dec 11, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Okay, next?


Hey again. You wanted next well here goes. I have been thrown in to an install at a church ,and when i got there I was informed that no one is aware of the initial setup procedure for some movers(8 Chauvet intimidator spot 2.0). The company is a sound company and I'm there only light guy and still pretty green. The desk is a frog but I am not sure which one yet. It will arrive tomorrow but I don't think that is going to be my problem. My hitch in the giddy up is going to be dmx addressing. I'm reading the user manual as i speak (ok maby when I'm done speaking.) so I should know the procedure for addressing the fixtures as long as i know what they are supposed to be.(hopefully). All I'm really asking is if any one has done an install and might know some thing to look out for it would be appreciated info. Thank you

Vid Fan 
_I maybe over my head..... let me get back to you._


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## derekleffew (Dec 11, 2008)

Most people address the dimmer rack(s) first, then the movers. So assuming you have 48 dimmers,

DMX addr: - Use:
01 - Dimmers 1-48
49 - Mover#1 (in 8-ch. mode, make sure this matches the Frog; or use 6-ch. mode)
57 - Mover#2
65 - Mover#3
73 - Mover#4
81 - Mover#5
89 - Mover#6
97 - Mover#7
105 - Mover#8
113 - next available address

Of course, you can softpatch your dimmers to whatever channel numbers you want, and use any fixture number you want for your moving lights. That's as much advice as I can give, having never used a Frog.


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