# The Christmas dinner problem



## GBtimex (Aug 19, 2011)

Dear Stage mangers, TD's and Facility guys, 

I manage the stage for a building at a college. I started less than a year ago and I keep running into a problem which I was wondering if other people had encountered before. 

I call it the Christmas dinner problem and it goes like this:

You have a client RETURNING to your space. They have been here many times and know the space fairly well and have on the whole enjoyed their experience in years past. They know most of the house crew and almost always have the same set up. As such few notes (if any) exist on the client and since they have been coming here for so long they don't send a rider. Me being the new manager (and often bringing in a new crew) are left with little to go on and have to reinvent the wheel to get them in and the client gets more stressed out because they have to explain things.

I call this the Christmas dinner problem. Like when a person hosts Christmas (or Hanukkah) dinner for the first time at his or her house. The food is laid out, the house is decorated, music is playing and everything (in your mind at least) is perfect. Once your guest arrive though they start asking for things they have "always" had and you didn't prepare them. And while you did work for hour on the Turkey, mashed potatoes, and pumpkin pie; everybody was expecting Honey Baked Ham, yams and pecan pie. You did what you knew best to do and you did it well. That being said, people left disappointed and you discouraged. All of which could have been avoided by communication. Trouble is they didn't and now you get known in the family as the guy who can't handle a dinner.

As a manager I have run into this problem a few times. Usually dealing with people who are not as well versed in the entertainment industry but have done some events in the past. I ask my normal 20 questions (i.e. what will you be needing in terms of lights? sound? will you be flying any thing? will you need screens? how many crew? etc) and I try to use pictures and drawings to illustrate my point. In addition to that I ask whom will have the "magic finger" meaning; who will make the final call on site on what is acceptable. "This needs to be 10 ft over there and that needs to be more SR..." 

Even with all this I have been blind sided by expectations that were impossible to met with the time constraints we are always fighting. I am wondering if any one else has had this problem? If so how did you come it fix it? How did you improve yourself? How did you establish better communication? 

Any advice before all my hair falls out? 

GBTimex,


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## Aerial (Aug 19, 2011)

I'm still figuring this one out myself and am prepared to always deal with it. Many small local area groups (the majority of our business) use my venue as you describe. I ran into the same problem and was often frustrated when I first started here. I can think of a few groups that are now lumped into my category of "I already know your setup, know how you like doing things, and have previously figured out the workarounds for problems you will encounter."

The best input I have is time; I found that the next time one of these groups come in, it is tremendously easier. Often, I will informally meet with a director or organizer of a local group after their event. I discuss what worked, what didn't and how to get around the problems they encountered in the future. This even goes for local organizers bringing in outside talent. This shows your appreciation for them working with you and allows them to provide further input. I have essentially 'taught' local groups what putting on their shows require and 'trained' them to provide as much information up front as possible. Hopefully they use the same information and process when using other venues, which in turn improves and professionalizes the local scene. We both know they will probably be in my venue in another 6-12 months and both seem to appreciate our willingness to work together.

The other input is just being open with these groups. Let them know that although they have been in the venue before, the crew has changed. Ask for more information and then hope you receive it. Be open to whatever may happen the first time and look forward to the next encounter because it will be easier.


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## Van (Aug 19, 2011)

I wrote a really long and nicely worded response this morning. Then I used My google spell correct and IE9 Ate it, so I'll reconstitute and sum up.
I agree with Aerial, as with so many things Time heals this kind of thing. < but I want solutions NOW> Yeah I know. I have moved into so many places where I have been replacing a " Guy who was here forever" I've been in my present posistion.... um 8 years I think, and I still occasional get a , " Remember how Trent used to do it?" 
I think the best advice i can give is to be honest and open with your renters, " I'm new here but I'm not new to the business. It is my fervent wish that your production proceeds smoothly and with the utmost profesionalism. I don't know how you do things but I do know how I do them. if we can work together we can both learn and wind up with a stronger production next year." Don't take offense if someone starts talking to one of the hands that's been there a while instead of going through you first, but be sure to know what they were talking about and gently let folks know they have to go through you for the betterment of the production. Oh, and insist on Paperwork. 
if none of that works, just turn off the lights and say, " Call me when you want to talk."


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## GBtimex (Aug 22, 2011)

Pity your comp ate the long response I would have loved to hear it. I was kinda expecting the usual "growing pains, well that's gonna happen a lot" type of response. 

While I am trying like hell to talk to these people they often don't know how to explain what they want. I have had other (and older) crew talk to them. I wont lie that tends to chap my ass more than it should. Reason being is that I feel that in that situation I am loosing face. I am the guy who can't get the same show we have done for 10 years up because I didn't know this client ALWAYS has X done and only Bob on my crew knows this. Bob being tight lipped and not always liking the change new management brings in; comes in and saves the day from this foolish SM. 

I know that in time this will happen less and less. Patience is a virtue and one that I normally do possess. That being said, I hate feeling like the shmuck who can't run his stage and has to have Bob fix everything. 

I am grateful for all the advice; just wondering how many other people have walked this road and found something other than frustration and patience to be their guides. 

Thanks GBTimex


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## chausman (Aug 22, 2011)

Van said:


> I wrote a really long and nicely worded response this morning. Then I used My google spell correct and IE9 Ate it, so I'll reconstitute and sum up.


Off topic, but since this seems to be happening to you a lot, I would suggest you copy long posts to something like word, or create them in word, so when your computer gets hungry, you have a backup. 

I would tell clients that they need to be specific with what they want, and you will work with them as much as possible, but when you don't get told things, then everyone has a harder time. As well as, that you are "new"* to the building* and that you don't know how other people did things.


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## Footer (Aug 22, 2011)

I have been in my present job just over 4 months, however, I have worked for the venue for 2 years. The position I have is one of those "high turn over, tons of hours, high stress" type of gigs. In the last 6 years, 5 people have moved through my now office. With that, my boss, has been with the building on and off for the last 9 years. He is the office/advance guy and I'm on deck. Therefore, he advances shows the way they were the year before. He pulls up last years advance, makes edits, sends it out to everyone, makes edits from the responses he gets, then sends out the final which my crew does the show off of. It does not matter how many times the group has been in, no matter what, they get sent an advance that outlines what we will be providing, what they will be providing, time they are in, if they need dock access, show times, labor requirements, contact info, audio requirements, lighting requirements, staging requirements, atmospheres/pyro used, soft good certs required, parking required, rigging, and whatever else we forgot. That advance is our handshake. What is on it happens, what is not on might happen if we have time. We fill the call based on it. It does not matter how many times you have been in or what you had last year, the advance wins... hands down. 

My other thing I throw out their often is "We have 300+ different events in here every year, I don't remember what you did last year, I'm going on what we talked about you doing this year."

So, talk to the group before they come in. Get what they want in writing. Archive these advances and then you or whoever is there next can pull them up and look at them for next time. Its really the only way to do it. Right now there, declare show bankruptcy and start fresh with everyone.


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## MrsFooter (Aug 22, 2011)

Yeah, I've run into this problem periodically. There's one particular cover band that comes back every year with an LD who won't tell me what he needs because the Lighting Director before me just remembered what he needed from year to year. None of the stuff he wants is hard or difficult, but it's stuff that I need to know about ahead of time in order to get it done in the allotted amount of time. Every year, he shows up and of course, none of the stuff he wanted is ready to go because he didn't tell me he wanted it. So every year, he rants on and on about how Bill used to have everything ready to go when he got there because Bill just remembered what he needed from year to year. And every year, my desire to stomp on his neck grows stronger and stronger.

My rule is the same as Kyle's: if it ain't on the paper, I am under no obligation to make it happen. I will do my best to accommodate last minute requests, but I'm not going to kill myself to get it done. If it wasn't important enough to mention it beforehand, it can't be that important. Be nice about it, be polite about, but don't let them make you feel like **** because they couldn't communicate their needs properly. You can only do what you can, and it's just as much their responsibility to make it happen as it is yours.


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## techieman33 (Aug 23, 2011)

We use a production manager report every day a client is in the building, it has check boxes for most of the common items used. Time the client gets into the building, show starts, etc. There are also sections for lighting needs, sound needs, staging needs, and misc needs. Labor used in each area is also recorded. We also take lots of pictures and include them in the same folder. That is all in edition to the rider and advance that was worked out prior to the event. That way whoever is here for the building next time has good notes to go back to as a reminder to help them prepare for the client the next time they are in the building. It obviously won't help you a lot at first but as time progresses it's a great resource to go back to.


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## mstaylor (Sep 5, 2011)

I am in a similar situation except I have been in my job for almost thirty years. The problem is many of the annual events have been handle by the building staff, read stupid, and have left the customer unhappy. I am now handling more of these types of events, mics, sound tech and powerpoint presentations, and get from the office,"Do it like last year." Two problems, I didn't do it last year and I can't do it the same because it was screwed up by the staff. 
Writing notes and taking pictures are paramount to your future endeavers. I would suggest a checklist for your facility that when you talk to renters, you can go through. 
The other problem I have in my building is you have big conventions run by people that don't know, talking my building rep who doesn't know. I get there and pull solutions from unmentionable body orifices.


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## museav (Sep 6, 2011)

GBtimex said:


> You have a client RETURNING to your space. They have been here many times and know the space fairly well and have on the whole enjoyed their experience in years past. They know most of the house crew and almost always have the same set up. As such few notes (if any) exist on the client and since they have been coming here for so long they don't send a rider.


There's always going to be some things people unreasonably expect you to remember but that does not address why few, if any, notes exist. My first comment would be to stop that cycle and be the one to start documenting these things. You can do all sorts of things to deal with the issues now but unless something changes it will likely just start over again when someone on either side changes again.

So work with these clients to get the relevant information documented, possibly in some standardized form and then file that. The next year, send them a copy of that form in advance and say you just wanted to make sure nothing had changed. Try to get them to sign off on it and keep that, if they won't sign anything then just tell them that if you do not hear otherwise in writing you will assume the information is still correct. If they want changes, update the form including identifying the date it was updated, maybe make it "ver 2" or something and save that updated version. That way whether the people on your end or their end change you will always have a reference document and documentation of what has transpired to that date.


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## mstaylor (Sep 7, 2011)

museav said:


> There's always going to be some things people unreasonably expect you to remember but that does not address why few, if any, notes exist. My first comment would be to stop that cycle and be the one to start documenting these things. You can do all sorts of things to deal with the issues now but unless something changes it will likely just start over again when someone on either side changes again.
> 
> So work with these clients to get the relevant information documented, possibly in some standardized form and then file that. The next year, send them a copy of that form in advance and say you just wanted to make sure nothing had changed. Try to get them to sign off on it and keep that, if they won't sign anything then just tell them that if you do not hear otherwise in writing you will assume the information is still correct. If they want changes, update the form including identifying the date it was updated, maybe make it "ver 2" or something and save that updated version. That way whether the people on your end or their end change you will always have a reference document and documentation of what has transpired to that date.


I agree with breaking the trend. I just got a new booking agent for my building today and I started that conversation when I met her. Pictures are just as important as notes.


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## GBtimex (Sep 7, 2011)

Good advice guys.

I have been talking notes on everyone that comes in and pics are taken often as well. I am working on a "standard" form for us but I am constantly revising it for improvements. Slowly but surly I am getting rid of the "good ol boy" system and bringing in (what I feel is) a more professional system. 

Thanks for all the input,

GBTimex


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## marmer (Jan 31, 2012)

For what it's worth, I fought this battle for twenty years in a University concert hall. Lots of University-type events don't change all that much from year to year. It's the perfect setting for "just like last year"-type requests. I always, especially as I started to get a little gray in my beard, smiled sweetly and said something like "I'm really sorry, but we've had a lot of concerts since you were here and I'm afraid I won't remember everything." Sometimes I'd make a joke about not remembering what I had for lunch that day or something like that if it seemed appropriate. That then paved the way for simply ignoring the words "just like last year." And, yes, we'd take notes, but often the problem was that someone would say "just like last year," we'd look at the notes, and then they'd change what they wanted at the last minute anyway. Fun times! ;-)


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