# Live video and audio feed to church nursery?



## aaron_hbc (Feb 23, 2017)

Our church would like to have a live A/V feed to our nursery so the workers in there can see and hear the service. Here's what I've got so far:

I'm going to run HDMI over Cat5e from the camera in the auditorium to the TV in the nursery. I plan to use the camera's mic for audio for now.

My question, and I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere, is how do I get the audio from the camera to the nursery? Right now I can plug my camera into the TV using an HDMI cable and the video shows up, but I don't know how to also send the audio signal to the TV. Whether the camera is recording or not makes no difference; still no audio. The point is, the TV right now is basically just a giant field monitor. What can I do to get what the camera both sees and hears to the TV?


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## Amiers (Feb 23, 2017)

What kind of camera is it?


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## aaron_hbc (Feb 23, 2017)

Amiers said:


> What kind of camera is it?



It's a Canon T3i. I'm also considering getting the Vixia HF R700, also by Canon. I've also been doing some more reading. Evidently the camera must have live HDMI output. Thoughts?


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## StradivariusBone (Feb 23, 2017)

I thought HDMI-Cat5 devices also encode the audio over the cable. I'd verify that your converter does this and also double check that the camera will output audio through HDMI.


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## aaron_hbc (Feb 23, 2017)

StradivariusBone said:


> I thought HDMI-Cat5 devices also encode the audio over the cable. I'd verify that your converter does this and also double check that the camera will output audio through HDMI.



"that the camera will output audio through HDMI"

I know that it ouputs audio through HDMI during playback of an existing video on its memory card, but what I'm trying to accomplish is to establish a live video AND audio feed to the TV. If this means getting another camera, then so be it, but I just want to know if and how it can be done. Very simply, I just want to send live camera video and audio to a TV.


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## Amiers (Feb 23, 2017)

Yeah that DSLR is t really designed to do that. 

But you could try 

Camera to Computer to TV. 

Computer will have to be running some sort of processing software and the computer will have to beable to output audio from its HDMI port. ( which most don't) so you will have to get a video card that can take audio out of the computer. Currently my tester card is a Nvidia GTX 430. 

Even if you were to switch to the other camera you would need some sort of encoder switcher in between for live stream. Or a computer to process the video and audio. 

Atleast to get it to run it down 1 line. 

My suggestion is to get the new camera and run a separate line for speakers in to the nursery that come out of your sound board. It will be less of a headache.


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## MRW Lights (Feb 24, 2017)

I think you can monitor the audio via the headphones while recording on that camera, but the processor isn't able to encode video and audio at the same time on the same signal line. It's intended to be an external monitor view. The preamp in the camera also isn't strong enough to drive signal down any real length of cable so you would need an outboard amp. 

I use a system here in my theater that runs audio and video via cat5 to all of my dressing rooms and monitor stations, but that's a system with a budget because it requires an encoder hub and then decoders at each destination. I convert it to VGA and 1/8" to RCA to my TV's because it's easy and it's only for reference. I keep one HDMI decoder in case we need to set up a breakout room.


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## aaron_hbc (Feb 24, 2017)

MRW Lights said:


> I think you can monitor the audio via the headphones while recording on that camera, but the processor isn't able to encode video and audio at the same time on the same signal line. It's intended to be an external monitor view. The preamp in the camera also isn't strong enough to drive signal down any real length of cable so you would need an outboard amp.
> 
> I use a system here in my theater that runs audio and video via cat5 to all of my dressing rooms and monitor stations, but that's a system with a budget because it requires an encoder hub and then decoders at each destination. I convert it to VGA and 1/8" to RCA to my TV's because it's easy and it's only for reference. I keep one HDMI decoder in case we need to set up a breakout room.



Where does your audio come from? Your mixing board?


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## Bubby4j (Feb 25, 2017)

If all you have is a single camera, but it doesn't output audio through HDMI, you just need an HDMI audio inserter. They can be pricey for what they do. Monoprice has a cheap one for about $50, but I'd worry about reliability.
Alternatively you could run analog audio alongside the cat cable. The TV probably won't accept an analog audio input while on the HDMI input, so you'd need external speakers for that.

In the long run if you get fancy with this system you'll probably want better cameras and a switcher, along with a direct audio feed from the mixing console. If a few seconds of delay is bearable (generally okay if audio isn't propagating from the auditorium to the display location) then it can be cheaper to encode the output from the switcher to h.264 and stream it over your network to the displays using something like a raspberri pi at each display, though it does make the setup more complicated. Good HDMI over catx converters (such as HDBaseT) can be expensive per display, but will have nearly no latency. This would also be what you need to live stream online, though whether that's worthwhile is up to you.


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## Jay Ashworth (Feb 25, 2017)

I tend to agree that the short version is that it is reasonable to expect a "video" camera to send HDMI video out in E-to-E mode with audio embedded, but it's not reasonable to expect a still camera to do it, even if it can put out moving video.


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## MNicolai (Feb 26, 2017)

You may want to light up that camera first and ensure you'll get what you think you're going to out of it, and for as long as you need it to be outputting. I don't think you'll have much luck getting your T3i to output video for the length of an entire service, at least not reliably.

DSLR's fall into something of a weird category involving European Union tax code that allow them only to record up to ~30min. Beyond that, they would be considered video cameras which are taxed at a higher rate than still cameras. Long-story short, they are not designed nor intended to be long-duration video sources. I know with my Canon 60D, even if I'm just using the output for preview and not recording, eventually the sensor will heat up too much and stop outputting video until it cools down. If I'm recording, I might make it to the tail end of my first 20 or 25-min clip just fine, but 15min into the 2nd clip it might drop out on me. That's just not what these cameras are designed for.

I would also avoid using the built-in mic. You really want to pull direct audio off of a mixer or a mic and use an HDMI audio embedder to insert it into the camera feed. The camera's mic will pick up a lot more coughing, rustling of hymnals, opening of cough drops, so and general room noise. It may also require so much gain that your hear a significant amount of digital noise whenever you turn it up loud enough that you can actually hear the worship leader's voice. 

Also consider that the T3i doesn't have any AGC (Auto Gain Compensation). It will not automatically adjust to raise the audio gain during quieter parts or lower the level of louder moments. It's not a "set-it-and-forget-it" type of device.

--

Overall, I'd question how much you really need video in the nursery. It will largely depend on the types of services you have, the expectations of your parishioners, and your budget. It's probably much more cost-effective and frustration-free to drop a handful of 70V ceiling speakers in that space with a volume control on the wall, fed by a 70V power amplifier driven from an extra output of your audio console or DSP. Unless you have more of a contemporary style of service, hearing what someone is saying is more important than seeing them say it.

Video in houses of worship is a lot like climate change. A growing insurgency of people can agree that it will become increasingly important, but nobody can agree on if or why they need to do something about it or how much they're willing to spend on resolving it. Nobody has clear expectations on what can reasonably be done about it, and the people who've "figured it out" are spending an obscenely higher amount of money on it than anyone would reasonably expect.

If you decide you do really need video in there, I would go through these questions and do a little soul-searching:

1) What is your budget?
2) Will this only ever be for the nursery?
3) Are you okay with it looking a little like a security camera?
4) Are you ever going to need to add different camera angles and multiple cameras?
5) Are you ever going to record your services?
6) Do you want your recordings to look as good as the other houses of worship in the area?
7) Are you able to reliably have a camera operator every single service or do you need it to completely turn-key -- just on/off from a couple power buttons and that's it?
8) How much labor is involved it you need to open up some ceilings and string some extra cables out between where your camera and mixer live and where your nursery and any other overflow-type spaces are?
9) Are there people in the nursery for long segments of the service for whom it would be a fundamentally different experience hearing the service as opposed to seeing it?


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## MRW Lights (Feb 27, 2017)

aaron_hbc said:


> Where does your audio come from? Your mixing board?



I use two shotgun microphones mounted on my box booms, they can feed my console and the monitor system. Selected via a switches in the control booth.


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## BillESC (Feb 27, 2017)

I'm about to install HDMI over Powerline at a church. The camera will be feeding HDMI to three projectors throughout the building without running any cables.

https://www.iogear.com/product/GPLHDPROK/


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## MRW Lights (Feb 27, 2017)

BillESC said:


> I'm about to install HDMI over Powerline at a church. The camera will be feeding HDMI to three projectors throughout the building without running any cables.
> 
> https://www.iogear.com/product/GPLHDPROK/



Very interested to hear how those work for you. I've had some success at small regional theaters with powerline ethernet adapters. Are you weary of any ground loop interference with the HDMI signal?


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## BillESC (Feb 28, 2017)

Will be doing the install next week or the week after and I'll report back here.


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## chausman (Jul 2, 2017)

BillESC said:


> Will be doing the install next week or the week after and I'll report back here.



How did these turn out? My church might be looking for something similar soon.


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## BillESC (Jul 2, 2017)

The church had some electrical issues so I ended up going with HDMI over Cat5E which worked perfectly.


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## Amiers (Jul 2, 2017)

Powerline adapters are finicky still. They like to stay in a single panel of circuits and even though it says 984ft the quality at that distance is shotty at best. 


I have two here for Ethernet purposes. 

When I set up the second pair because we got a new ATM there were two sets of outlets next to the ATM both fed from the same panel at each switch panels I had to pick from. However one was inline with a GFI outlet and would keep dropping the ATM until I moved it to the other outlet with no GFI. 

Some food for thought that I've ran into when using them.


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