# Proper way to use cheeseboroughs



## Dagger (Jun 4, 2019)

Is there a proper way to use them?

When attached facing out on the sides, should the latch go up or down? ( on picture)

I am thinking if it gets lose. The latch facing down and screw gravity can hold it from opening and therefore it is safer?


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## Amiers (Jun 4, 2019)

If you have a proper size washer then if it comes loose and gravity kicks in it will stop which ever way it’s hung if it has the lip.





Even if there isn’t a lip the latch will slip forward and pinch with whatever it’s holding. 

As long at the threaded post is in the slot.


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## Dagger (Jun 4, 2019)

Is it standard usage to do cheeseborugh hand tight and give it a quarter turn with c wrench?

I heard that using wingnuts using c wrench is a NO. 
But i am talking about the other that looks similar like a wing nut but it is thicker. 

Just hand tight and / or use c wrench?


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## Amiers (Jun 4, 2019)

Yes hand tight with wing nuts

No C wrench ever. Hand tight always when doing shows. 

Nutted boroughs you should use a deep well socket. Again not to mar the threads. 




Installs yes you want to do a tool turn and just be careful not to mar the threads.


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## Dagger (Jun 4, 2019)

What about these ? Hand tight? ( image)


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## Amiers (Jun 4, 2019)

Dagger said:


> What about these ? Hand tight? ( image)



Depends on your truss owners. But generally you tighten it snug. You don’t want your fixtures slopping around and falling off.


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## MNicolai (Jun 4, 2019)

C-clamps need to be tightened with a wrench. Generally nothing tighter than you can comfortably do with a 6" wrench. Anyone walking putting their back into an 8" wrench is just causing unnecessary wear and tear and making it harder for the out.


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## danTt (Jun 4, 2019)

In general with cheeseboroughs, there's no structural difference between them opening up/opening down. That being said, having them with the hinge down/bolt up makes it easier when hanging a large pipe, you can set it in the hinge and then close, rather than trying to hold it open and futz with the bolt while holding weight.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 4, 2019)

The other reason not to use a c wrench in a wingnut is that it’s easy to break off an ear. Using a tool like an Ultimate Focus Tool is safer for the ears.

That said, wing nuts are designed to be a tool free fastener.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 4, 2019)

Dagger said:


> What about these ? Hand tight? ( image)



If you really want to be persnickety, those should never be used on aluminum truss. 

Most companies ignore this, and the good ones supply truss protectors.


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## Amiers (Jun 4, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> If you really want to be persnickety, those should never be used on aluminum truss.
> 
> Most companies ignore this, and the good ones supply truss protectors.



Or send pennies. In which case you spend an extra 10 mins on each fixture. The ultimate el cheap-o truss protectors.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 4, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Or send pennies. In which case you spend an extra 10 mins on each fixture. The ultimate el cheap-o truss protectors.



And then on the out you can collect your bonus pay!


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## egilson1 (Jun 4, 2019)

Also remember cheeseboroughs have no rating when used as in the OPs image. They only are rated when used horizontally, e.g. being used to make a pipe grid.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 4, 2019)

egilson1 said:


> Also remember cheeseboroughs have no rating when used as in the OPs image. They only are rated when used horizontally, e.g. being used to make a pipe grid.



What would you use, then?


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## danTt (Jun 4, 2019)

egilson1 said:


> Also remember cheeseboroughs have no rating when used as in the OPs image. They only are rated when used horizontally, e.g. being used to make a pipe grid.


Really? Lightsource gives a "safe vertical working load" of 1100lbs for their couplers. It's unclear what specific couplers the op picture is, but at least some are rated.


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## egilson1 (Jun 4, 2019)

danTt said:


> Really? Lightsource gives a "safe vertical working load" of 1100lbs for their couplers. It's unclear what specific couplers the op picture is, but at least some are rated.



That is correct. But that 1100lbs is in an overlap configuration. The issue is the term vertical. When light source says vertical they mean the clamp in a vertical orientation, with one half on top of the other. People tend to think of vertical meaning one of the pipes running vertically, which is incorrect.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 4, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> *What would you use, then?*


 *@gafftapegreenia* and *@egilson1* Could / would either of you care to comment on Kee Klamps, and / or their Canadian clones, specifically one of their cross-over variety supporting a loaded vertical pipe, a boom for example, from a horizontal pipe*??*
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Van (Jun 5, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@gafftapegreenia* and *@egilson1* Could / would either of you care to comment on Kee Klamps, and / or their Canadian clones, specifically one of their cross-over variety supporting a loaded vertical pipe, a boom for example, from a horizontal pipe*??*
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


I hate Kee Klamps!  There I made a comment.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 5, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@gafftapegreenia*  and *@egilson1* Could / would either of you care to comment on Kee Klamps, and / or their Canadian clones, specifically one of their cross-over variety supporting a loaded vertical pipe, a boom for example, from a horizontal pipe*??*
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



So are you talking about doing a tail down from an electric batten?

Something about relying on one set screw makes me nervous, at least speedrail has two set screws. Its probably *fine* but I don't think its an engineered or rated use of the product. No matter what product is used I'd want a safety cable run through the entire pipe. 

Perhaps a rotalock is the answer? I asked Bill Sapsis specifically about using Rotalocks for tail downs and he said it was acceptable, just remember that the bolt in a rotalock should always be on the top end.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 5, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> So are you talking about doing a tail down from an electric batten?
> 
> Something about relying on one set screw makes me nervous, at least speedrail has two set screws. Its probably *fine* but I don't think its an engineered or rated use of the product. No matter what product is used I'd want a safety cable run through the entire pipe.
> 
> Perhaps a rotalock is the answer*?* I asked Bill Sapsis specifically about using Rotalocks for tail downs and he said it was acceptable, just remember that the bolt in a rotalock should always be on the top end.


 *@gafftapegreenia* Tail down; yes, no and sort of. I'll elaborate: 
The venue had two German masking pipes, one on each side, both sharing one common single purchase arbor. 
The LD wanted three 22' booms per side. The director wanted the deck kept clear; the PM said "Use six Kee Klamp cross-overs, torque the cup-point set screws and they'll be fine. The LD wanted six or eight Century Strand 2209 / 2212 PER boom *AND* he wanted them all on boom arms on the same side of the vertical boom / tail down. With all the arms off the same side of the vertical, gravity would've attempted to tilt the vertical from its 90 degree forging and put additional rotational stress on the Kee Klamp cross-overs. We compromised with four 2200 series armed on the D/S side and the other four 2200 series armed on the U/S side. The production was 'Peter Pan'. The Foy fellow and myself both thought the booms looked _FAR_ too scary, even more so with their bottom ends approximately ten feet above the deck. They all hung there for the entire run of the production (three weeks) and the Kee Klamps all went back into stock to live another day. One 22' length of 1.5" schedule 40 with six or four (dependent on which boom) boom arms and six or four Century Strand 2200 series *PER* Kee Klamp. (And a 6 circuit drop box plus a bunch of two/fers for good measure) I'd say the Foy fellow was right to be concerned. Neither his nor my names were on it. (Thankfully) We had six spare Kee Klamps and added them on the vertical boom / tail down immediately above the KeeKlamp supporting each vertical boom / tail down. This was the childrens' Christmas production between Christmas and New Years 1992.
I grimace at the memory. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 5, 2019)

Yikes. Glad I wasn't a part of that.

Last time I was around for something like that, the metal shop fabricated lighting ladders with pick points and sliding T's captured permanently on the rungs. After motoring them into position they were dead hung from the grid. A dozen or so lights per ladder, and a mover on the bottom. The only stumbling block there is knowing you have a trustworthy welder.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 5, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Yikes. Glad I wasn't a part of that.
> 
> Last time I was around for something like that, the metal shop fabricated lighting ladders with pick points and sliding T's captured permanently on the rungs. After motoring them into position they were dead hung from the grid. A dozen or so lights per ladder, and a mover on the bottom. The only stumbling block there is knowing you have a trustworthy welder.


 *@gafftapegreenia* A trustworthy welder and tethering your ladders when the movers start gyrating. 
(A really good welder would've used clear pine dowels and an Oak rod.) [The trick's in the flux.]
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## danTt (Jun 5, 2019)

egilson1 said:


> That is correct. But that 1100lbs is in an overlap configuration. The issue is the term vertical. When light source says vertical they mean the clamp in a vertical orientation, with one half on top of the other. People tend to think of vertical meaning one of the pipes running vertically, which is incorrect.


I reached out to light source today because I was curious.

While you are correct that vertical in this usage is in a pipe grid, and that has an 1100lb SWL, the email I received back from light source did say that they rate their couplers for 200lbs SWL with an 8:1 Design factor when used in a "goalpost" configuration, if tightened to 50ft/lbs. Much less rating, but it appears they do have one.


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## geoffrey hugh (Jun 12, 2019)

MNicolai said:


> C-clamps need to be tightened with a wrench. Generally nothing tighter than you can comfortably do with a 6" wrench. Anyone walking putting their back into an 8" wrench is just causing unnecessary wear and tear and making it harder for the out.


i agree but want to add that the problem with over tightening is that it is possible with some brands of C-clamps to bend the threaded shaft of the bolt. if you do that, it is impossible to remove, using a wrench. a second 'but': if you do make one, or see one, you will not forget.

There's a kind of 'sweet spot' of tightening which is snug, then a little more pressure, til you can feel a 'limit' approaching. stop there.


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## SteveB (Jun 12, 2019)

geoffrey hugh said:


> i agree but want to add that the problem with over tightening is that it is possible with some brands of C-clamps to bend the threaded shaft of the bolt. if you do that, it is impossible to remove, using a wrench. a second 'but': if you do make one, or see one, you will not forget.
> 
> There's a kind of 'sweet spot' of tightening which is snug, then a little more pressure, til you can feel a 'limit' approaching. stop there.



You are generally more likely to break the clamp body by over tightening. I’ve only ever done/seen that on like 2 clamps in 40+ years. I do know you can remove a clamp whose steel square head bolt is bent by using a hacksaw.


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## RonHebbard (Jun 12, 2019)

SteveB said:


> You are generally more likely to break the clamp body by over tightening. I’ve only ever done/seen that on like 2 clamps in 40+ years. I do know you can remove a clamp whose steel square head bolt is bent by using a hacksaw.


 * @SteveB * To cut the bolt, NOT the clamp; right*?? * 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## SteveB (Jun 12, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> * @SteveB * To cut the bolt, NOT the clamp; right*?? *
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


 
Yes, but either. If somebody bent the square head bolt and didn’t fracture the clamp, I’d still wonder about the clamp integrity and would toss it.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 12, 2019)

Fun fact, if you ever need to replace that large bolt, it’s actually a 1/2”-13 square head cup point set screw, according to McMaster.


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## geoffrey hugh (Jun 19, 2019)

SteveB said:


> You are generally more likely to break the clamp body by over tightening. I’ve only ever done/seen that on like 2 clamps in 40+ years. I do know you can remove a clamp whose steel square head bolt is bent by using a hacksaw.


my experience is different. as i mentioned, different brands of clamp may respond differently. i worked in IATSE Local 1 jurisdictions. i saw several bent bolts, and only while touring did i ever see fractured clamps. two, actually. and yes, of course, the only way to remove the bent bolt is using a hacksaw. i also qualified my remark by naming a wrench as the tool.


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## Amiers (Jul 8, 2019)

Well folks it’s happened to me some how this came back from a gig. 






So it can happen. This went out just fine. So remember don’t crank it if you don’t have to.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jul 8, 2019)

I gotta say, Ive never seen one half cracked. Its usually all or nothing.


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## venuetech (Jul 9, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Well folks it’s happened to me some how this came back from a gig.
> View attachment 18192


Beware of the hand who only has a 12" C-wrench to work with.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Jul 9, 2019)

I feel like I'm constantly warning students not to over tighten C clamps, but for good reason. And I still come across the occasional ones that are difficult for me to move with an 8" wrench. They get nervous about yoking fixtures and really want to make sure it won't go anywhere.


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## Amiers (Jul 9, 2019)

The only time I really crank “hard” is when I’m roostering a fixture on a lighting tree that’s pipe and base. Cause that crap is notorious for waiting til the 4th fixture to decide to dip and you gotta start all over again or muscle the pipe back and crank on the borough.


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 9, 2019)

At the risk of stating the obvious, use a smaller wrench. A 6" wrench can't generate the same torque as an 8". Anyone who can break a clamp using a Light Source Mega-Combo wrench deserves some sort of prize... maybe a bronzed broken clamp.


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