# Controlling Lights, Sound, and Projection ?



## ledelman (Nov 12, 2010)

In relation to this:

My school has an ETC Express and will soon be upgrading to an Ion. We use SFX6 for sound and PowerPoint when we need to do projection. This is all normally done with the console controlling lights, one laptop controlling sound and another controlling the projection. I have been looking at the Rosco keystroke to cue at least the sound. Can I use the keystroke to cue both SFX6 and PowerPoint? This raises several other questions.

1) Can keystroke be used to cue more than one key?
2) Using extended desktop in Windows XP or Windows 7, will cuing using SFX6 disrupt the full screen of the presentation on the desktop extension?
3) Using some mix of macro software and keystroke can I cue both sound and presentation without having to click back and forth between programs?

To summarize:

I want to have the ability to cue lights, sound, and presentations all at once using a console, keystroke, laptop, and software. I also want the ability to cue all three at the same time if necessary without having to do some mad alt-tabbing. If no one can figure out exactly how to do it can you at least tell me if it seems possible so I can justify purchasing a keystroke with a limited budget.

Thank You.


----------



## gafftaper (Nov 12, 2010)

Sorry, Keystroke has been discontinued (I think shortly after this thread was started in 2007). It's still buried on Rosco's site but I don't think they upgraded the software past XP. 

It's a product that was not widely used. My feeling as to why it never took off is that it's just too risky. While it sounds nice to have one console run all systems, not being able to go back a cue if you make a mistake is a huge problem. Remember we are talking about just pressing go buttons. Let's face it anyone with half a brain can press go on an Express and on SFX at the same time. Why complicate things and make it impossible to undo a mistake? A good Stage Manager and a couple of go monkeys and you will be in much better shape than with a Keystroke.


----------



## ledelman (Nov 12, 2010)

The lack of techies is what prompted me to consider this. I see, I guess it would be easier to go on a monkey hunting spree. But for an academic stand point, is it possible?


----------



## ssss2art (Nov 12, 2010)

If you are looking for an extremely integrated solution for controlling lights,sound,video, and also managing all the other cues for your show, check out StageSoft. We have been doing it for years.
StageSoft.com

(I am one of the engineers)

Stewart


----------



## Footer (Nov 12, 2010)

ledelman said:


> The lack of techies is what prompted me to consider this. I see, I guess it would be easier to go on a monkey hunting spree. But for an academic stand point, is it possible?


 
With enough time, anything is possible. However, the keystroke was not really made to do this at that level of complexity. Look into midi and midi show control. Read this book cover to cover by JohnHunnington: Amazon.com: Control Systems for Live Entertainment, Third Edition (9780240809373): John Huntington: Books: Reviews, Prices & more . SFX responds to midi and it is possible to get a [URL='http://www.amazon.com/Control-Systems-Live-Entertainment-Third/dp/0240809378"]keyboard emulator[/URL] that will trigger your powerpoint. Show control is not an easy thing to pull off at the start. Do some reading, it will get you somewhere. 

Also, one computer per area. You don't want a single point of failure for your entire show.


----------



## ledelman (Nov 12, 2010)

All interesting suggestions. The one point of failure thing is something I didn't really think of. Which is odd, I must just be getting numb to equipment failure... Anyway thanks for the suggestions. Shouldn't impliment them though since in high school their should be as many positions as possible to get as many people interested and working. Though maybe the midi would be a good back-up if the techie pool runs low. As for stage craft, it looks great but I don't think it would quite fit with our programs goal with our new performing arts center to teach the industry standard, which is console based control. Thanks again for the responses.


----------



## shiben (Nov 21, 2010)

ledelman said:


> All interesting suggestions. The one point of failure thing is something I didn't really think of. Which is odd, I must just be getting numb to equipment failure... Anyway thanks for the suggestions. Shouldn't impliment them though since in high school their should be as many positions as possible to get as many people interested and working. Though maybe the midi would be a good back-up if the techie pool runs low. As for stage craft, it looks great but I don't think it would quite fit with our programs goal with our new performing arts center to teach the industry standard, which is console based control. Thanks again for the responses.


 
What about qlab? Thats used as industry standard by lots of places. If you really wanted to be "industry standard" you probably would be running off of a GrandMA or something anyhow, if there is ANY real show control console. Personally, I think that show control is something that will be used more in the future, especially on larger shows that run to something like timecode. If you can eliminate all but one or two technicians for the entire show running, I can think of a lot of people for whom that would be calculus that makes sense. I dont buy the whole "multiple points of failure" argument, because especially in applications with timecode or decently clever programing, you can avoid major issues for the majority of situations. I can, however, see why someone would be warry to invest into a mac pro tower to run Qlab, or a highly capable PC to run other programs, both of which can run into the ten to twenty thousand range, plus a few hundred for software, a few hundred for adapters, cables, and other associated hardware. Show control has its place in large, complex shows, but in a High school, I dont think you need to look further than a laptop with your sound cues and your light board for your light cues. Hit go at the same time with one guy if you have to, or even rig up a little brace with a couple dowel rods and some glue if you want one finger to do both...


----------



## JohnHuntington (Nov 22, 2010)

I second all the thoughts about keynote--I thought it was a bad idea from the beginning, encouraging people to run a consumer product (Powerpoint) in front of an audience.


Footer said:


> Look into midi and midi show control. Read this book cover to cover by JohnHunnington: Amazon.com: Control Systems for Live Entertainment, Third Edition (9780240809373): John Huntington: Books: Reviews, Prices & more .



Thanks for the plug!

John Huntington


----------



## derekleffew (Nov 22, 2010)

JohnHuntington said:


> I second all the thoughts about keynote--


You meant to type "Keystroke" and not "Keynote," right?


JohnHuntington said:


> ...encouraging people to run a consumer product (Powerpoint) in front of an audience.


Um, but isn't that the product's exact intended purpose? What would you suggest Mr. Jobs use at the neXt Apple conference, an Eagle, Doves, and E-IIIs?


----------



## JohnHuntington (Nov 22, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> You meant to type "Keystroke" and not "Keynote," right?



Duh, yes. That's what I get for responding in a hurry.



derekleffew said:


> Um, but isn't that the product's exact intended purpose? What would you suggest Mr. Jobs use at the neXt Apple conference, an Eagle, Doves, and E-IIIs?



I should say too that I use Powerpoint all the time in front of an audience when I'm speaking, but if it crashes, I just say, "oh well" and restart. I think for a show where it's not an obvious presentation by a speaker or something, then I think there are many better solutions that are far less likely to stop working and they are increasingly affordable. 

John


----------



## shiben (Nov 23, 2010)

JohnHuntington said:


> Duh, yes. That's what I get for responding in a hurry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I find keynote a might more stable than powerpoint. However, a more designed for the application piece of software is my prefered method.


----------



## thesigma (Feb 8, 2011)

Footer said:


> With enough time, anything is possible. However, the keystroke was not really made to do this at that level of complexity. Look into midi and midi show control. Read this book cover to cover by JohnHunnington: Amazon.com: Control Systems for Live Entertainment, Third Edition (9780240809373): John Huntington: Books: Reviews, Prices & more . SFX responds to midi and it is possible to get a [URL='http://www.amazon.com/Control-Systems-Live-Entertainment-Third/dp/0240809378"]keyboard emulator[/URL] that will trigger your powerpoint. Show control is not an easy thing to pull off at the start. Do some reading, it will get you somewhere.
> 
> Also, one computer per area. You don't want a single point of failure for your entire show.


 

I second that book, it was a great read. I never did implement show control for my church musical, but that was why I was researching. Very good stuff, but I would have been the only one capable of running it and that was the ultimate reason we just went the old school way.

I'm still glad I got the book though, and you would be too if your into lighting and stuff.


----------



## JohnHuntington (Feb 8, 2011)

thesigma said:


> I second that book, it was a great read.



Thanks for the kind words!

John


----------



## derekleffew (Feb 8, 2011)

JohnHuntington said:


> ...I think for a show where it's not an obvious presentation by a speaker or something, then I think there are *many better solutions* that are far less likely to stop working and they are increasingly affordable.


Such as ...?


----------



## JohnHuntington (Feb 8, 2011)

Let's see, off the top of my head: Watchout, Wings Platinum, QLab. QLab is probably cheaper than a keystroke. SFX used to have the ability to play video clips directly; not sure if that feature's still in there, but a quick email to Carlton would clear that up.

Or the hardware route (generally my favorite) : Alcorn Digital Video Machine HD , Adtec Edje, etc. I just saw some adtec stuff on Ebay.

Or if you're a bit more tweaky/programmy: Max/MSP/Jitter, PD (free), and there's a couple other free, open source projection solutions out there that I could find with a bit of googling. We had one student use one last semester that was an open source video mapping software that could be triggered via telnet or MIDI.

All are professional devices that can take professional control protocols, and are designed for the task. 

And any of those solutions likely cost less than one fancy period costume for a show.

John


----------



## JohnHuntington (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh and I didn't have time to read this carefully, but here's a high school using QLab to do, "Dark Play - Projection on a Budget"
Figure 53 | QLab | Showcases | Dark Play - Projection on a Budget


----------



## shiben (Feb 13, 2011)

JohnHuntington said:


> QLab is probably cheaper than a keystroke...
> 
> ...And any of those solutions likely cost less than one fancy period costume for a show.
> 
> John


 
Undoubtedly. Qlab rents for what, a buck a day to a school? 3 bucks to a pro? When I used it on a show I recently worked on last fall it cost us 60 dollars to use the program for nearly 2 months. Now that fits any budget right there.


----------



## ruinexplorer (Feb 13, 2011)

ledelman said:


> In relation to this:
> 
> <snip> We use SFX6 for sound and PowerPoint when we need to do projection. <snip> Can I use the keystroke to cue both SFX6 and PowerPoint? This raises several other questions.
> 
> ...


 

shiben said:


> Undoubtedly. Qlab rents for what, a buck a day to a school? 3 bucks to a pro? When I used it on a show I recently worked on last fall it cost us 60 dollars to use the program for nearly 2 months. Now that fits any budget right there.


 
Problem with all of the Qlab advice is that the OP is running on PC and unless there have been some changes, I think that Qlab runs only on Macs. So the pricepoint of buying a new computer along with the rental of Qlab seems excessive.


----------

