# Ham Radio for Communication?



## hslighting (Jul 4, 2013)

So I'm looking for new walkie talkies (Just two-way radios, nothing fancy) and I came across these, the cheapest I've found: Amazon.com: 5 Pack BaoFeng BF-888S Long Range UHF 400-470 MHz 5W CTCSS DCS Portable Handheld 2-way Ham Radio With Free Original Earpiece *5 pcs*: Electronics. I Now Know That A License Is Required. But aside from that will these work for two way communications within a theatre without interfering with any of the wireless audio?


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## techieman33 (Jul 4, 2013)

Those radios look to be all kinds of illegal. I would stay far far away from them unless you want to risk the FCC knocking on your door.


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## hslighting (Jul 4, 2013)

Even with a license you think they'd be illegal?


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## silicsound (Jul 4, 2013)

Besides the fact you would have to pay a good amount of cash to train and certify every person who uses a ham radio, there are at least four reasons off the top of my head that make these radios illegal. And one feature that make them very easy to track by the FCC. Save your self some time and money buy some good radios. If your unsure about the laws governing radios go to a local amateur radio store and ask.


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## techieman33 (Jul 4, 2013)

Sorry I missed that they were programmable, and would do narrow band so they might not be illegal. What I would do in your situation is find some local radio shops and see what they have to offer. They may have similar low priced radios available. Even if they were a little more expensive there would be plenty of advantages to paying a little extra for them though. They would be able to help you though the licensing process, to make sure you stayed legal for starters. They could help you find open frequencies that wouldn't interfere with any wireless gear you or anyone else in your area is currently using. And they will usually program the radios for free as well, saving you time and possible frustration, and again making sure things stay legal.


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## FMEng (Jul 4, 2013)

Those radios don't look like they are legal for any kind of use. I doubt that a radio that is capable of landing on any channel from 400 to 470 could be type accepted by the FCC because chunks of that spectrum has specific uses and is off limits. Amazon may be in violation for even selling them in the US.

A HAM (amature radio) shop isn't the best place to go for advice. HAM radios cannot be used for business, which is what a theater is. You need to go to a business two-way radio shop and get a licensed system.


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## hslighting (Jul 4, 2013)

Thank you all for your advice, I will look for a nearby radio shop!


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## themuzicman (Jul 4, 2013)

hslighting said:


> Even with a license you think they'd be illegal?





You'd need every person using them to get at least a Technician class license to operate them. Read up on ARRL's website for more information, find a local hamfest and license up.

That being said, your uses are illegal as per § 97.113 of Part 97 of Title 47 of the Federal Rules and Regulations. 
(2) Communications for hire or for material compensation, direct or indirect, paid or promised, except as otherwise provided in these rules;
(3) Communications in which the station licensee or control operator has a pecuniary interest, including communications on behalf of an employer...
(5) Communications, on a regular basis, which could reasonably be furnished alternatively through other radio services.

Part 5 is the big one, as you plan on communicating a ton in a short period of time on a method made available for noncommercial public use. Legal radios are a better choice, as are wireless com. There are actually people who monitor amateur radio bands and report issues to the FCC. § 97.119 on Station identification would also annoy the heck out of you. 

(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions. No station may transmit unidentified communications or signals, or transmit as the station call sign, any call sign not authorized to the station.

I can only imagine the frustration you'd deal with just responding to a simple question and having to respond with your call sign after a single word response. 

The big plus with going to a legitimate radio service to get legitimate PTT stuff, besides all of this, is the fact that most of them are licensed under Part 74 rules - simply put they should be fairly free of interference. All consumer devices fall under part 15 rules, the whole "this device must take and accept all interference" sticker on the bottom of things? That's FCC part 15 rules, you have noise on your channel? Tough, that's life - it's what makes wireless mics a bundle of fun to coordinate. Part 74 licensure ensures that you should have no interference. 

Hope this helps


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## hslighting (Jul 4, 2013)

Okay so a definite no on any licensed frequencies. In theory could a UHF/VHF radio be programmed to MURS frequencies and be used license free?


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## zmb (Jul 4, 2013)

hslighting said:


> Okay so a definite no on any licensed frequencies. In theory could a UHF/VHF radio be programmed to MURS frequencies and be used license free?



Outside of radios designed for amateur usage, I don't think any radio can be reprogrammed or have the crystal changed without invalidating the FCC approval. Theoretically yes, but legally and properly no.

MURS is license-free, but operates between 151.82 MHz and 154.6 MHz and overlaps with the Business Band and Telex RadioCom is nearby too, so you might get interference issues.


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## Nelson (Jul 19, 2013)

I thought I would comment since I am both an active ham radio operator (w8nwo is my callsign) and MURS user. First, as others have pointed out, everyone who might want to use a ham radio would have to obtain a ham license (after doing some studying and passing a test). The tests aren't too difficult, but still, you have to study for a test and pass it. You can't just send in a form and application fee like you do with GMRS. Second, ham radio is for non-commercial use only. You can't legally use ham radio if you are being compensated for your work. Lastly, ham radio must not be used if another radio service would serve the same purpose (I forget the exact language). In other words, you can't use ham radio as a way to avoid getting business band radios. Therefore, the only application I can think of for ham radio in theatre is if you are working with an all-volunteer crew that already possesses ham licenses and you are providing communications for some special function that wouldn't normally be served by the use of business band radios or other comms. I can't think of a situation in theatre where that would be the case. Still, don't completely disregard the use of ham radio for public service. For instance, local bike races often request the assistance of ham operators to provide communications over a wide area of the bike course. That is a great application of ham radio for public service! I just can't think of how something like that might apply to theatre.

Now MURS is something worth considering. As far as I know, any part 90 certified VHF business band radio capable of being operated at 2 watts or less is legal for use with MURS. There are many older handheld radios that meet this requirement and can be obtained inexpensively. The only issue is that you usually have to have them reprogrammed by a two-way radio shop (that is more interested in selling new business-band radios to you). I have several old Motorola MT1000 2-watt handheld radios that work well for MURS. If I need to hand someone a radio so I can communicate with them, they work great (over modest distances, of course). If I'm working with my sound crew to set up before a show and I'm all over the stage, I can't be wired to our comms system, so those radios work well.

Still, since anyone can use MURS, you can't be assured reliable, interference free communication. Because of that, I don't rely on MURS for critical in-show communication. I might use them during load-in or what not, but not during a show.

Lastly, narrowbanding is not an issue for ham radio or the last two channels of MURS (154.57 and 154.6). Therefore, you can easily find old wideband VHF radios that can be used on 154.57 and 154.6. They are often very inexpensive since they aren't useful for public safety or business band communication anymore.

Therefore, if you need wireless two-way radio communication, your best option is probably to obtain a license to use a business-band frequency. A radio shop would be able to help you with everything you would need. However, if you understand and respect the limitations of MURS, you may find that MURS will work satisfactorily for you.

Hope that helps! Sorry for the wordiness; I wanted to give a complete answer to the best of my abilities.


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## RonaldBeal (Jul 24, 2013)

If you get a business band license, the BaoFeng UV-5R's are type 90 accepted, $35 each, and get good reviews on eham.com. they would fit the bill (as long as you get a license.)


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## RonaldBeal (Jul 26, 2013)

Nelson said:


> Now MURS is something worth considering. As far as I know, any part 90 certified VHF business band radio capable of being operated at 2 watts or less is legal for use with MURS.



Not entirely correct.. MURS requires type 95 acceptance. The only type 90 radios that can be used on MURS must have been type 90 certified before 2002.
RB


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## gcpsoundlight (Jul 29, 2013)

At least in Australia, but I suspect similar in the US, those radio's are illegal FULL STOP. I picked one up for ham usage (yes, I am licensed) and was informed that even if you lock them down, due to the fact they are "front panel programmable" by default to the emergency service allocation, they are illegal to own or posses. Full stop.
Plus, on a more practical note, the battery in mine died after only a years light usage.


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