# All in 1 Linux show control system



## jasonaherbert

I've spent the last hour looking on the forum to find something pointing to something I'm looking for, and no luck...so I'm starting a thread.

What i want to do:
-Run sound cues (up to 8 channels out)
-Run lighting cues
-Run video cues
-all by pressing [space bar]

oh...and did I mention all this on a Linux box running Ubuntu 64bit?
yeah, that's the problem. I'm new to Linux. I know its the most solid OS out there, and most of the programs are free for it. 

I was running Show Cue System on a Vista machine (laptop), and loved it...sadly SCS does not run on Linux. After contacting them they suggested I use Wine to emulate Windows but no such luck.

I'm trying to get MagicQ working but something just isn't playing nice. 

Ardour isn't playing nice with JACK, and JACK isn't playing nice at all.

If I had the time (and patience) I would learn how to make my own program, and make something super sexy that would make everyone fall in love with me...and so on, and so forth. But, alas, I do not.

My current set-up at the theatre is 24 dimmers, but I'm looking at getting some LED PARs to permanently mount as backlight. So I need something that could handle the full 512, and a colour selection wheel would be nice.

Any suggestions?


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## DuckJordan

it sounds like you want an extremely complicated piece of software that your trying to place on a free op system.... two things that come to mind...

Light people (love money)
Sound People (love money)

and a third that came up as i was typing 

Light people do not like sound people (in most cases)

so the likely hood of something to be cheap or free or even cost effective doing both lights and sound from one system is extraordinarily rare. 

Not to mention my feelings on allowing one computer to run both lights and sound for a show (even if its a DJ show). Personally its one area where i like to separate and conquer sort of thing.


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## themuzicman

Why do you want it to be Linux?

I love rolling into places with my computer, plugging in QLab and a midi interface, and taking control of the projections and lighting in a matter of seconds. Just saying. 

What you are asking for is extremely complicated, and most places aren't going to be programming for linux because it is a niche audience. You're going to have to stick with Mac or PC for what you want. But seriously, QLab does everything you want.


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## Anvilx

Seriously, it seems like the problem is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?


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## zuixro

Anvilx said:


> Seriously, it seems like the problem isn't the actual software, it is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?



Dangerous question.


I will restrain myself.


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## KeepOnTruckin

Anvilx said:


> Seriously, it seems like the problem is the OS. What is preventing you from just running vista?




zuixro said:


> Dangerous question.
> 
> 
> I will restrain myself.



Compromise: Upgrade to Windows XP.


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## themuzicman

KeepOnTruckin said:


> Compromise: Upgrade to Windows XP.



Best compromise ever.

That being said, I ran the Windows 7 beta for like 6 months and loved it (and I'm an mac person)


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## epimetheus

I would not recommend XP to anybody these days. Windows 7 is mature enough at this point and XP support is going to be waining off soon. I would not start a new project on XP, it would limit the lifetime of the project.

Oh, and don't touch Vista with a 10 foot pole...


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## DuckJordan

+1 to dump vista its garbage. I am running both xp and 7 and i find 7 a lot more responsive and user friendly as well as program friendly... XP has a few work horse ops but the 7 emulator for the 32 bit programs generally runs them better than an xp system.


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## Dionysus

+1 to Throw Vista into the trash heap.

Haven't given 7 a go yet, don't have the money.

However the Ubuntu distro of Linux is "Sexy, Safe, and Stable". and easy to develop on. It really is the perfect platform for show control, however yes all the big companies don't want to build anything for it since it is for a small market and there is a lot of pressure for "open source, open mind" on Linux.

If I had the necessary skills, the tool-set I'd undertake developing such types of software for Linux distros however I don't. And most of the people who do are usually too busy with other things.
I know people who'd be willing to pay for it, however one of the beautiful things on Linux is Open Source.

If software akin to this was made open source, than other people would be free to further enhance and modify it to suit their needs. To publish different takes, and really develop some really sweet software.

I personally am weary of having the SAME computer controlling EVERYTHING directly. The idea of multiple machines linked with MSC or something is nicer as if one computer goes down the rest of your systems are still operational.
But for some instances it sure would be nice to have a computer control your entire show (like a small travelling show for instance).

I do seem to think there is DMX control software for Linux, I remember seeing it somewhere. Can't recall. I currently don't have a computer with enough HDD space to dual-boot (had my main machine fry, HDD and all). Perhaps one was MagicQ? Don't recall.


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## jasonaherbert

addressing:
why Linux?
because it is extremely stable. i tried Windows7 64bit, but i wanted to break things around me due to it. there was so much that was wrong with it.
i tried loading XP but it wouldn't load at all. (i do prefer XP, because i'm old school like that)

I stay away from Mac, only due to cost. i had $1000 to build a computer, and i was able to do so by buying the parts from Newegg.com. i don't think i could get a stick of RAM from MAC for that cost.

I have now installed MagicQ and am currently playing with it. its pretty fun. i can do lighting and video.


About Lighting and Sound guys not playing well with each other:
if that were true i'd of shot myself in the head, because i'm all of it.

I'm the Tech Director, Lighting Designer, Sound Designer/Engineer, Master Elect, Carp...all of it. 
so the easier i can make running a show, the better off i'll be. 

the current (and hopefully soon to change) set up is:
Show Cue System for sound (doesn't run on Linux)
and the EXT SmartFade (please someone take this and use it as a boat anchor) for lighting.
so hitting Space Bar with one hand, and using my +5 in DEXTERITY to move faders with the other hand. this limits me. hell, for 10 months i ran a Road Hog Full Boar and i could make things look pretty. and i've work with all the programmable ETC desks, i really miss having split timed (TIMED) cues. 

so those are my reasons for choosing the system i am currently running.

and i'll settle for getting the $1,500 external controller for MagicQ to run lights, and press [Space] for sound, that's fine. 

so i guess i'll have to find a sound program now.


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## DuckJordan

Well the easiest way you could do it would be using the linux computer to send MIDI commands to both your light board and your sound board and possibly another computer to trigger the sounds. That way you can just use one space bar... 

Basicly from what i understand of your most recent post is that its not so much as combining the computers but rather controlling them from one location at the same time.


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## mitt10tim

If you can stand to wait another year, I was plan on writing exactly the piece of software you are talking about for my thesis.


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## Kingcaffeine

"i don't think i could get a stick of RAM from MAC for that cost"
Not true. A fast Mac mini can be had for $600. A USB->DMX dongle for $60-100. Qlab. Run Quartz Composer and make a patch for audio (if you really have to, Qlab'll do it though). Problem solved. If you really need to run Linux, get VMware and have at it in OSX. Or boot the Mini to Ubuntu. Or run W7, or......

It sounds like you're trying to build a staircase with a screwdriver and a planer and you really need a decent hammer and a sharp handsaw.

Or wait a year and mitt10tim can make some money. 2 cents and soapbox done.


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## NickVon

themuzicman said:


> Best compromise ever.
> 
> That being said, I ran the Windows 7 beta for like 6 months and loved it (and I'm an mac person)


 
Even Better compromise Windows 7 x64. Or you you have a a mr money bags in your pocket, a Macbook Pro and Qlab

I've been extremely happy with "Mutliplay" audio control software developed by AVDDave, here on the forums. http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/software/multiplay/index.php Fantastic fairly feature rich free program.

It can send telnet and midi commands, (admittedly i haven't played with those features, but their in there) You can keep your Go button somewhere on screen with the program minimized while you are perhaps running your MagicQ software for lights. Just to button click then?


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## joeyfergie

NickVon said:


> It can send telnet and midi commands, (admittedly i haven't played with those features, but their in there) You can keep your Go button somewhere on screen with the program minimized while you are perhaps running your MagicQ software for lights. Just to button click then?



We've been using Multiplay at my theatre for about 2 years now, with it also controlling our lighting system via MIDI for almost a year. Despite initial programming in our lighting console (ETC Express 48/96), it is very easy to use.


jasonaherbert said:


> What i want to do:
> -Run sound cues (up to 8 channels out)
> -Run lighting cues
> -Run video cues
> -all by pressing [space bar]



Multiplay doesn't run on Linux, (we have it both on an XP and 7 machines), but we currently have it hooked up to output 8 channels of audio (2 internal sound cards, and 2 USB sound cards), runs our lighting via a USB to MIDI converter (MIDI activates Macros in the lighting console, which activate cues). The program is starting to get support for video, I am testing it out now to implement next year for our lobby displays. And all of it is done by pressing a space bar.

If you haven't found another solution this would be worth buying a copy of Windows.


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## iccelou91

A friend and I have been thinking about open source show control systems for linux for a while. We've already put a decent amount of work into reliable systems for audio cues. It's nowhere near a release, but linux show control isn't that far-fetched. It just hasn't really been done as of yet.
Well-built linux show control would be incredibly portable, versatile, fast and (hopefully) reliable. And cheap. I forgot to mention cheap.


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## plutosams

iccelou91 said:


> A friend and I have been thinking about open source show control systems for linux for a while. We've already put a decent amount of work into reliable systems for audio cues. It's nowhere near a release, but linux show control isn't that far-fetched. It just hasn't really been done as of yet.
> Well-built linux show control would be incredibly portable, versatile, fast and (hopefully) reliable. And cheap. I forgot to mention cheap.


 
As a stage manager who runs everything off of a Linux system this is something I am very interested in. Right now I am forced to dual-boot Windows in order to use Multiplay (unfortunately does not work under Wine). Although I have next to no programming experience I would interested in helping out any way I can. I would use something like this on a near daily basis (in rehearsals, performances, etc.) Even just a sound cue system would be better than what I have available now.


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## echnaret

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. I've been using Xubuntu for years. While I have found various lighting and sound show control programs, it seems like they're usually buggy and have poorly designed user interfaces. In general, lighting and sound contol is a niche market, and those who make quality programs usually don't want to give them away for free.

I'm a bit of a programmer (I'm a comp sci/theatre double major, and I think I still remember a bit of Java..), and I'd be willing to help test/debug programs that anyone else is working on.


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## Anvilx

I think vvvv can do all this but the learning curve seems really steep. From what I can tell It is basically a show oriented max msp sort of program.


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## DuckJordan

My suggestion for your system, as far as programming goes, is stay away from web coding for this. HTML 5 is an improvement over the older versions but still not stable enough nor latency controlled as this would require. Javascript would be virtually useless for the same reasons. Why not do this in C++ or C#?


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## cpf

DuckJordan said:


> My suggestion for your system, as far as programming goes, is stay away from web coding for this. HTML 5 is an improvement over the older versions but still not stable enough nor latency controlled as this would require. Javascript would be virtually useless for the same reasons. Why not do this in C++ or C#?



C++ requires extensive work in porting onto every platform you want to use it on, C# just plain doesn't work on things that aren't Windows (or, ugh, mono). HTML5, on the other hand, works to varying degrees on any modern web-capable device or browser. I'm not sure where your prejudice against JavaScript is coming from, nowadays it is very fast (on browsers that aren't IE) and is just as inherently reliable as the platform it's running on, just the same as C# or any compiled language. WebSockets remove the latency concern normally present with XHR/AJAX/"Pull" based messaging systems, as they give JavaScript direct control over the underlying socket - it won't get any faster than that.


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## SanTai

yanterrien, it sounds like a great initiative!

I am sadly no programmer(except some basic knowledge of Java and Matlab), but to me it sounds like a good way to make it possible for good open source solutions. Maybe this is the start of what AJ Pen talks about in this interview, but open source. 

ENTECH INTECH - Extended Linkin Park Interview with AJ Pen - YouTube

Am I understanding you correctly if I believe you create "the base"(API?) for communication with the real world(MIDI, LTC, DMX, Serial)? And other programmers can create custom "plug-ins" with GUI for having a timeline, cue's, midi/MSC control, dmx control etc.?


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## telmnstr

I've never had great luck with Linux in terms of the DMX512 apps. Even midi sequencers seemed to crash often, and the way jack enumerated devices made it impossible to script.

One tip if you hate Windows but want to use one application is Windows XPe and Windows Embedded 7. You can rip out everything and build a single purpose system, if you want something like an appliance.

When that fails, go Mac.


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## maldridge

I'm actually looking at writing something simple over winter holiday. It won't be fancy (think qlab 1.5 levels of functionality w/ no additional licensed), but it will run on linux. If anyone wants to throw some code my way, pm me.


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## Cryophallion

What language were you thinking of writing this in (hard to contribute code if you don't know the language).

Also, now that magicq does video/audio more easily with the magicHD portion of the software, I would say by far that is the best way to go for the ability to do everything in one place (and I do both lighting and sound, does that mean I hate myself?).

I'd say try magicq out again, using the onstagelighting tutorials to get you started, and the newer ones on magichd afterwards. I use it on both linux mint and windows.


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## vman

Maybe it's not exactly what you want, but there is an open source show control software that runs on Linux, Windows and MAC ( V-Control ) It is not like QLab. I think the main difference is that V-Control is more a device control solution. It can not play Video or Audio by itself. V-Control is more a Master that controls other devices (via RS232, TCP, UDP, DMX, MIDI, IR, Relays etc.) If you are interested we can discuss if it makes sense to extend V-Control.


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## Dionysus

maldridge said:


> I'm actually looking at writing something simple over winter holiday. It won't be fancy (think qlab 1.5 levels of functionality w/ no additional licensed), but it will run on linux. If anyone wants to throw some code my way, pm me.


I do hope you have gone ahead with your project. I second the question of what language, etc you are using? I'd love to see someone develop even a simple yet rock solid mulitiplay equivalent for linux open source. Especially given to later see it expanded to include DMX etc.


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## Jay Ashworth

maldridge said:


> I'm actually looking at writing something simple over winter holiday. It won't be fancy (think qlab 1.5 levels of functionality w/ no additional licensed), but it will run on linux. If anyone wants to throw some code my way, pm me.



There is already a WIP called, I think, Linux Show Player; I think it's in Python.

Yup: https://code.google.com/p/linux-show-player/
When I looked at it early this year, it had *baaad* dependency problems for deployment so I can't comment on where in the functionality cycle it is. But it's often worthwhile to throw labor at an existing project rather than a new one...


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## Leo Mauler

Dionysus said:


> I do seem to think there is DMX control software for Linux, I remember seeing it somewhere. Can't recall. I currently don't have a computer with enough HDD space to dual-boot (had my main machine fry, HDD and all). Perhaps one was MagicQ? Don't recall.



There is. It's called QLC+, and it is a very feature rich system for doing DMX control in Linux. Its at http://www.qlcplus.org/. It's written for Linux, Windows XP+, macOS, and even runs on a Raspberry Pi hobby computer.

The last one would be for people who also have a cramped control booth, as the Raspberry PI is about the size of a 3.5" internal hard drive. QLC source code is free, the binaries are free for everything but Raspberry PI, and Raspberry PI binaries cost 15 euros worth of whatever your local currency is.


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## Leo Mauler

jasonaherbert said:


> I've spent the last hour looking on the forum to find something pointing to something I'm looking for, and no luck...so I'm starting a thread.
> 
> What i want to do:
> -Run sound cues (up to 8 channels out)
> -Run lighting cues
> -Run video cues
> -all by pressing [space bar]
> 
> oh...and did I mention all this on a Linux box running Ubuntu 64bit?



If you can run two Linux machines, one for sound, one for lights, you can get the lights done with QLC+, and the sound done with EventSoundControl, https://www.eventsoundcontrol.com/en. Both software systems run on Windows, Linux, and Mac. EventSoundControl costs money for a 5 user license, 39.50 Euros.


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## icewolf08

Frankly, I think that an "all-in-one" controller is kind of a bad idea. Having one piece of software on one machine that does everything has to come with a lot of caveats, for instance:

If the software crashes, your whole show is toast, whereas with discrete systems, if sound takes a crap, you may not have to stop the show.
A jack-of-all trades is always a master of none. Meaning that software (or hardware) that is designed to do one thing well, will always be easier and more efficient than software/hardware designed to try to do many things.
Bandwidth and processing power. Many processes that we run in entertainment require lots of processing power and network bandwidth. Sure, you can maybe add NICs to a machine, but it likely would not be hard to bog down even a high-ed CPU if you are trying to run high-res video, multi-track audio, and lighting.
So, you say: "what about software like Q-Lab? It does a bit of everything." That is true, and it would be OK as an all-in-one for a small space, but it doesn't really provide the ease of use or the high level functionality of say, a dedicated lighting controller. I mean, unless the idea is to write effectively three separate programs (lighting, sound, projections) that people would want over what already is available, and then roll them into one application with a unified cue stack, then I don't really see too much life for a project like this.


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## Martin Simon

Hey there,
this is Martin. I am the developer of EventSoundControl. Did it for my own usage but it is to expensive to do this only for my own and so I decided to publish it. As I began I needed a clean, simple and fast solution to play audio cues and playlists. Because there was nothing that was fine for me, I started EventSoundControl some years ago.

I think Alex is right mostly but in some cases it is very useful to have a simple all in one solution for small projects. With EventSoundControl I'd do it like that:
- prepare and use QLC+ for the lights
- prepare the video playlist in VLC an throw any output to a second screen, enable web control input in VLC
- create a button with the desired audio file in EventSoundControls "button player"
- give the audio button a hotkey like the space bar
- edit the audio button by EventSoundControls editor to give it some "actions" close to start the audio file:
- "MidiOut" action(s) for controlling QLC+ (virtual MIDI is available at linux systems)
- "HttpRequest" action(s) for controlling VLC

Yes you can control whatever you want from within EventSoundControl by midi, osc (next release), simulated key strokes (Win only) or HttpRequest. So you can get a control surface with audio capatibilities.


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## TNasty

One possibility for this (which does seem a bit like brute forcing this) is to virtualize and do a multi-head setup, which could easily be centrally controlled with MIDI. As I said, it is a tad on the crude side, but it is a possibility.

As @Martin Simon said, it seems like a decent idea. I've been playing around with VLC a fair bit lately, and you could certainly do what he's talking about with it. I'm sure you might also be able to find software that converts MIDI into specific keystrokes, so you could control VLC via the "Play/Pause" media key via MIDI.


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