# Rosco I-Cue vs Meteor Ellipscan



## Felix (Jan 24, 2006)

Currently in our 400 seat highschool theatre, we have 20 S4 fixtures for the FOH. 16 of which are used as a general stage wash. For our next show, i'll need a lot of specials, and rather than buying more S4's, i think it's time we get a mirror attachment for 2, maybe 4 of the S4's and order more S4's for those. Have them move during scene change cause we'll have tons of rolling sets.

The more common one is the Rosco I-Cue. Requires a PSU (good cause it weighs 6 pounds). $500 each + $120 for a PSU that handles 2 I-Cue's.

The other is the Meteor Ellipscan. I've hardly heard anything about them. But they use straight 120 volt, but weigh 11-12 pounds. $399 for the pro.

Any advice? 

Ellipscan: http://www.meteor-usa.com/Meteor-elipscan-fixture.html
Rosco I-Cue: http://www.rosco.com/us/lightingequipment/icue.asp

It will be controlled with a Strand 300 48/96


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## LDSFX (Jan 25, 2006)

Definitely go with the Rosco I-Cue. The internal technology (16 Bit control of the axes) is much newer than the ellipscan and I personally would feel much more comfortable buying a Rosco product than a Meteor product. I worked on a shows that used iCues for actor specials and they worked great. Especially for those specials that you may use only once or twice during a show.

Hope that helped,

-Nick


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## jonhirsh (Jan 25, 2006)

What about an autoyoke these are much more usefull in my opinion and would justify the extra cost the mirrors have problems with certain degree fixtures. 

JH


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## LDSFX (Jan 25, 2006)

True, autoyolks are more capable, but if the budget only allots for mirrors, if they are mounted the right way they should provide pretty good coverage.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jan 25, 2006)

In BMISupply, an autoyoke is actually cheaper than a mirror by over $100.


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## LDSFX (Jan 25, 2006)

Foxinabox, if you are speaking of the "Puppeteer Wire Motor Yoke", (found on the same page as the iCue mirror in the BMI catalog) that is not the same thing as a City Theatrical Autoyoke. The puppeteer was recently reviewed by lighting dimensions who said that its movements were jerky and not 100% reliable, it also only has 135 degrees of tilt, meaning it cannot even point straight down. An actual Autoyoke from City Theatrical is just over $2,000.

Hope that clarified things.


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## Foxinabox10 (Jan 25, 2006)

Thanx LDSFX, I didn't realize that the Autoyoke was an particular model as opposed to just a name for the type of item.


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## Felix (Jan 25, 2006)

Ah, yea we'll definitely go with 2 Rosco I-Cue's. 

Next question is, has anyone worked with getting these things working with a Strand 300 48/96 board? That board is quirky.... We've had to send it in once already for repairs.


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## gafftaper (Feb 11, 2006)

I got two I-Cue's for my previous life as a High School Drama Guy. It totally changed the way I did shows. By becoming all of your specials, it free's up the rest of your limited inventory. I suddenly had enough equipment to have two colors of washes. It was great! I never had a problem with them not being able to point anywhere. Position them carefully. Play around with tiping the barrel of the S4 in all kinds of crazy angles to see what gives you the best range for your space. I ended up using a crazy upside down and sort of toward the audience position that looked wrong but allowed me to hit the entire stage. 

Sorry, I used them on an Express 24/48 so I can't help you with the Strand question. But I can tell you this, get in and figure out all the ins and outs of link and follow cues and doing multiple fade times at once. It can be tricky with these lower end boards. I would start a 6 second cross fade on the whole stage, link that to a 2 second blackout on the special, followed by a 0 second move for the mirror in black, followed by a 3 second fade up on the special to hopefully match the end of the crossfade. It's not that hard, but it requires you to really know what you are doing on that board. I liked to use the offline software at home. I would record the basic locations on stage, then take the design home and fill in the blackout movements later.


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## kingfisher1 (Feb 11, 2006)

Never used one myself, but isn't it a bit limiting to not be able to use your shutter cuts because what is cut correctly in one postition is compleately wrong in another. with this your alway limited to a cirlcle unless you can figure out a way to comprimise....


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## gafftaper (Feb 11, 2006)

You're right Kingfisher. A nice way to deal with that circle is to make your own gobo using a pie tin. For the pattern cut a large random edged circle out of the middle of your gobo. Fuzz the focus a little and you have a nice unevenly shaped circle that doesn't draw as much attention to itself. You can also buy gobos for this purpose, but if your using I-cue's your probably on a budget so just cut up some pie tins instead. I recommend Marie Calendar’s pie tins... preferably full.


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## sound_nerd (Feb 16, 2006)

The I-Cue mirrors are very nice. They take up 2 channels on your board per unit (or per block of units, depending) one for pan, one for tilt. 
We have a couple in our black box theatre, they do nicely for specials.


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## Felix (Feb 16, 2006)

I thought there were 4? Say, pan coarse, tilt coarse, then pan fine, tilt fine?


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## Footer (Feb 18, 2006)

i own 4 of the elipscans and im very happy with them for what they are/cost.... i like the fact that they do not take a power supply.... they are pretty loud so using them in a studio space is not all that much fun.... because they have stepper motors they are kinda jerky if you dont program them right... to do a point to point cue use the speed control to move the light, not the fade time... it makes all the difference.... so if you want a inexpensive mover this is the way to go.....


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## Pie4Weebl (Jun 20, 2007)

Footer4321 said:


> i own 4 of the elipscans and im very happy with them for what they are/cost.... i like the fact that they do not take a power supply.... they are pretty loud so using them in a studio space is not all that much fun.... because they have stepper motors they are kinda jerky if you dont program them right... to do a point to point cue use the speed control to move the light, not the fade time... it makes all the difference.... so if you want a inexpensive mover this is the way to go.....


necro post I know, but with the elipscans, how smooth a movement do they give? Can I get a nice figure 8 out of them?


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## icewolf08 (Jun 20, 2007)

Pie4Weebl said:


> necro post I know, but with the elipscans, how smooth a movement do they give? Can I get a nice figure 8 out of them?



I have 6 of them in my inventory. They move pretty smoothly, you should be able to get a figure 8 out of them. Sure, it isn't 16-bit movement like the i-Cue, but when you make big moves (i assume your figure 8 is going to be a fairly large effect) it should be fine. When you consider the fact that any mirror has significantly fewer degrees range of motion then divided into 255 values compared to a moving yoke you get finer control by definition.


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## TupeloTechie (Jun 20, 2007)

what about the Apollo Right Arm? Im not sure of the MSRP, but they might serve your purpose


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## IlyaSmirnov (Jul 10, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> … Sure, it isn't 16-bit movement like the i-Cue …



I'm in a similar position to Felix - looking at using a moving head adapter with our Shakespeares for the next school musical, potentially as a low cost alternative to real automated fixtures (cheaper, and we get to keep them after the show)... but on the ElipScan website it states that the fixture has "_Advanced 16 bit micro stepping_"... a new version, perhaps?

So, comparing the I-Cue ($600 at BMI) and the ElipScan ($400 at BMI), what would you recommend? The price difference would let us get more ElipScans, if we go that route, but is it worth given their quality (or lack of, as some people mentioned)?

Also, has anyone used either with the Horizon control software? We have the version without any special moving head support, so they'd appear as ordinary dimmers, right? There aren't any real limitations due to that, are there?

Thanks in advance!


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## porkchop (Jul 10, 2008)

IlyaSmirnov said:


> I'm in a similar position to Felix - looking at using a moving head adapter with our Shakespeares for the next school musical, potentially as a low cost alternative to real automated fixtures (cheaper, and we get to keep them after the show)... but on the ElipScan website it states that the fixture has "_Advanced 16 bit micro stepping_"... a new version, perhaps?
> 
> So, comparing the I-Cue ($600 at BMI) and the ElipScan ($400 at BMI), what would you recommend? The price difference would let us get more ElipScans, if we go that route, but is it worth given their quality (or lack of, as some people mentioned)?
> 
> ...



It sounds like you've at least skimmed through the past posts so you have a few things to think about.

First price: Assuming the same price for a power supply as the OP found a pair of I-cues costs $1320 (600 * 2 + 120). A pair of ElipScans costs $800 (400 * 2). That means you're going to be able to buy 6 ElipScans for the price of 4 I-cues. If your budget is bigger than that I'd say you should look at Apollo Right Arms.

Second location: The I-cues will require a power supply that mean that you will either want to hang them relatively close together of make an investment in 4 pin XLR cable. ElipScan won't have that issue. This isn't a problem if you want to hang them in pairs in the same area but if you want to do something like 1 in each box boom 2 at FOH that might cause an issue. 

Third flexibility: The I-cues according to the users here seem to be considered less jerky and a better application if your going to have movement with the fixture on, if you are going to use them only for moves in the dark then who cares how jerky it is.


I don't know much about the ElipScans so I don't feel right voicing a personal opinion on them verse the I-cues (which I like quite a bit for there price). If you wanted to get really crazy and look into scrollers on the fixture too then you really wanna look at the Right Arm because of the accessory power slot.


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## tech2000 (Jul 10, 2008)

My high school has two Rosco I-cues and they work really well. Especially when I need a special at a certain spot on stage or in the house and either don't have time, or don't have resources to go up and hang an extra light.
Or I-cues are positioned so we can spot anywhere on stage or in the audience.


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## lieperjp (Jul 10, 2008)

I second (or third) the option of looking into the Right Arms. I don't have one, but I have used the I-Cue, and it seems that the Right Arm is much better, though more expensive.


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## IlyaSmirnov (Jul 10, 2008)

Looking at the ElipScan manual, it seems to have an unusual channel layout for DMX - there's the standard pan and tilt, but also a pan/tilt speed... It would seem to allow timing cues right on the unit - could someone who has one clarify this? Would this affect my ability to control it through ordinary timed cues from a board or Horizon?

One more thing: I can't seem to find anything on the site or in the manual about the power supply - as I understand, it plugs right into an everyday outlet... it also mentions having an outlet right on the unit that can be powered or shut off through an extra channel... are these all Edison plugs?


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## Footer (Jul 11, 2008)

IlyaSmirnov said:


> Looking at the ElipScan manual, it seems to have an unusual channel layout for DMX - there's the standard pan and tilt, but also a pan/tilt speed... It would seem to allow timing cues right on the unit - could someone who has one clarify this? Would this affect my ability to control it through ordinary timed cues from a board or Horizon?
> 
> One more thing: I can't seem to find anything on the site or in the manual about the power supply - as I understand, it plugs right into an everyday outlet... it also mentions having an outlet right on the unit that can be powered or shut off through an extra channel... are these all Edison plugs?



I know the elipscan well, too well infact. There is a pan and tilt speed, you can use it if you desire. I always set it to full and forget it, I let the board take the time (full is FAST, 0% is off). It takes 3 pin DMX and 120v Non-dim power to operate, thats it. The extra edison plug on it is for its "DJ Mode" which allows you to plug in whatever light you have it hung on to it, and it flashes it radomly to the music. Great for DJ's, bad for theatre. Its essentially just a DMX controlled relay built in. If you are on a buget, go for the elipscans. They do work rather well, and do what they need to do. I have used them in shows with hot moves, and it does work, its not the prettiest thing in the world, but it does work. For a introductory moving fixture, they work very well. PM me if you have any questions.


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## visigoth (Jul 11, 2008)

i have 3 meteors and i find them quite good.


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## jmac (Oct 4, 2009)

*Re: Patch Rosco I-Cue to Express 24/48*


gafftaper said:


> I got two I-Cue's for my previous life as a High School Drama Guy. It totally changed the way I did shows. By becoming all of your specials, it free's up the rest of your limited inventory. I suddenly had enough equipment to have two colors of washes. It was great! I never had a problem with them not being able to point anywhere. Position them carefully. Play around with tiping the barrel of the S4 in all kinds of crazy angles to see what gives you the best range for your space. I ended up using a crazy upside down and sort of toward the audience position that looked wrong but allowed me to hit the entire stage.
> 
> Sorry, I used them on an Express 24/48 so I can't help you with the Strand question. But I can tell you this, get in and figure out all the ins and outs of link and follow cues and doing multiple fade times at once. It can be tricky with these lower end boards. I would start a 6 second cross fade on the whole stage, link that to a 2 second blackout on the special, followed by a 0 second move for the mirror in black, followed by a 3 second fade up on the special to hopefully match the end of the crossfade. It's not that hard, but it requires you to really know what you are doing on that board. I liked to use the offline software at home. I would record the basic locations on stage, then take the design home and fill in the blackout movements later.



Resurrecting old thread, because I am trying to set up two I-Cues with an Express 24/48, and actually tried the search....

Have never used an Express before (finally get to, now that they are starting to going bye-bye...), and am working with Offline s/w first. Found personality file for the I-Cue, but when patching, it thinks the I-Cue has an integral dimmer, and won't allow assignment of an intensity channel for the associated fixture. Is there a way to do this, or do you just have to patch the associated fixture separately, and treat it like two separate entities?? Thanks.


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## JChenault (Oct 4, 2009)

*Re: Patch Rosco I-Cue to Express 24/48*


jmac said:


> Resurrecting old thread, because I am trying to set up two I-Cues with an Express 24/48, and actually tried the search....
> 
> Have never used an Express before (finally get to, now that they are starting to going bye-bye...), and am working with Offline s/w first. Found personality file for the I-Cue, but when patching, it thinks the I-Cue has an integral dimmer, and won't allow assignment of an intensity channel for the associated fixture. Is there a way to do this, or do you just have to patch the associated fixture separately, and treat it like two separate entities?? Thanks.



Quite honestly - I find the moving light controls on an express so confusing that, for something like an I-Cue ( especially if we are not talking about too many of them) that if you have the spare faders, I would just patch them to a set of faders and set them manually.


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