# Arizona Actor Accidentally Stabbed



## StradivariusBone (Jun 5, 2015)

A non-practical practical...


> In past rehearsals, the knife was taped in order to avoid such injuries.




> The decision to use a real knife was made by director and producer Gavin Kayner, according to Beider.





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ntally-stabbed-stomach-show-article-1.2247477


----------



## What Rigger? (Jun 6, 2015)

There aren't enough numbers in the universe to count the amount of stupid things that happened in that situation. Good Lorde, people!


----------



## Les (Jun 6, 2015)

There's a new one to add to the list of theatrical incident excuses...

"but we've done it this way for years"

"we were just using blanks"

"we were using a professional rock climbing harness"

"the knife was supposed to be taped"


----------



## Amiers (Jun 6, 2015)

I could understand a nick or a small slice. But 3 inches in and a 4 inch slice seems more like she had intent to really stab him. Tape or not she I think she would of got em good.


----------



## What Rigger? (Jun 6, 2015)

Les said:


> There's a new one to add to the list of theatrical incident excuses...
> 
> "but we've done it this way for years"
> 
> ...


 
Les, don't forget: "Don't worry, it's safe. Everything will be fine. I'll take responsibility."


----------



## Amiers (Jun 6, 2015)

Next words after seeing someone getting stabbed. I didn't tell you to stab so hard it's your fault.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Jun 6, 2015)

So grind the knife dull! Ugh. Taped? Seriously?


----------



## Les (Jun 7, 2015)

What Rigger? said:


> Les, don't forget: "Don't worry, it's safe. Everything will be fine. I'll take responsibility."



Maybe we should revisit the List of Big Lies.


----------



## techieman33 (Jun 7, 2015)

gafftapegreenia said:


> So grind the knife dull! Ugh. Taped? Seriously?



"But that's my good knife, I won't be able to use it on my next hunting trip if you grind the edge off."


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Jun 7, 2015)

techieman33 said:


> "But that's my good knife, I won't be able to use it on my next hunting trip if you grind the edge off."



It's a prop now. Kiss it goodbye.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Jun 7, 2015)

gafftapegreenia said:


> It's a prop now. Kiss it goodbye.


Ok, but let me get the prop master to put more tape on before you do. Safety first!


----------



## TechGeek (Jun 7, 2015)

I see taping it, but then why not just use a prop knife at that point? 

I think a show called PSYCH had an episode in a theater where they used a kitchen block with real knifes and one of them was the prop knife. Turns out one night doing the show the actress pulls what she thinks was the prop knife and stabs the other actor.


----------



## Amiers (Jun 7, 2015)

Didn't you know, tape makes the knife look more real. It adds to the effect...


----------



## StradivariusBone (Jun 7, 2015)

So does blood lol


----------



## gafftaper (Jun 8, 2015)

So for those reading this asking, what could they have done to make this safe. There are two options I go with. Others, Please add your ideas for how to safely have a knife on stage below. 

One: The safest and prefered option. Use a prop rubber knife. There are many options for rubber knifes all over the Internet. Amazon has multiple options starting about $5. You can paint them to look more realistic. Depending on how far away the audience is from the stage, a rubber knife may not look realistic, however if you are doing any sort of actual assult (stabbing, slashing, etc) then a rubber knife should really be your only option.

Two: If no one is going to be stabbed or slashed with the knife, and if the audience is close enough to tell your prop knife is rubber, then a real knife may be needed. However you should NEVER put a sharpened real knife on stage. As far as I'm concerned taping the blade is not acceptable either. I head to the local thrift store and buy the knife I want for dirt cheap. Then I take the knife to the shop and grind it down. Dull the entire blade, nice an blunt, removing the entire edge. Do not leave a pointed tip either, round it off. Grind it down until you can safely slice it back and forth across your hand. Even with a carefully dulled down blade, you should NEVER use this knife to do any sort of a physical attack on an actor. Safety first, the look of the show second.


----------



## rsmentele (Jun 8, 2015)

All I think about when I hear this is "Can someone seriously be this stupid?" to use a REAL, EDGED blade onstage?! Humanity never ceases to amaze me with its stupidity.


----------



## JohnD (Jun 8, 2015)

Gavin Kayner's "artistic vision" needs some new glasses, hopefully not rose colored.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Jun 8, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> however if you are doing any sort of actual assult (stabbing, slashing, etc) then a rubber knife should really be your only option.



We did "The Game's Afoot" two years ago and used plastic knives that had a springloaded blade. So when you stabbed someone, the blade would retract into the handle and when you pulled it back out the blade would redeploy. Combined with appropriate lighting and quick blackouts it was very effective. I treat stuff like this with the "my kid rule" the same as with rigging. If I wouldn't trust my 3-year-old with a real knife, I'm not trusting an actor on stage with a real knife.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Jun 8, 2015)

Just have to say that some people (including me) do not believe in retractable knives. That can and have jammed and malfunctioned and people have been stabbed for real.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Jun 8, 2015)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Just have to say that some people (including me) do not believe in retractable knives. That can and have jammed and malfunctioned and people have been stabbed for real.



You'd be hard pressed to break skin with these. They are very blunt, light plastic things. Possibly bruise, but I'd think that'd be possible with bad choreography and a rubber knife alone.


----------



## josh88 (Jun 8, 2015)

For any real fighting I'd use steel but I've got blunted daggers designed for that purpose. When there's no blade to blade contact (like the scenario in this instance) I agree on rubber. I've got an array of rubber and plastic knives that are completely safe and have varying levels of bendy-ness for whatever we need to do with it. Almost every type of knife has an equivalent training weapon that looks just like it. Spray the blade silver, if you need to, paint the grip or wrap it with something. But even close up they're passable.


----------



## gafftaper (Jun 8, 2015)

StradivariusBone said:


> I treat stuff like this with the "my kid rule" the same as with rigging. If I wouldn't trust my 3-year-old with a real knife, I'm not trusting an actor on stage with a real knife.



That's a really good way of thinking about it. My rule is always would I allow my son to stand under it, on it, use the prop, etc. If there's any doubt, then I don't do it.


----------



## seanandkate (Jun 8, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> So for those reading this asking, what could they have done to make this safe. There are two options I go with. Others, Please add your ideas for how to safely have a knife on stage below.
> 
> One: The safest and prefered option. Use a prop rubber knife. There are many options for rubber knifes all over the Internet. Amazon has multiple options starting about $5. You can paint them to look more realistic. Depending on how far away the audience is from the stage, a rubber knife may not look realistic, however if you are doing any sort of actual assult (stabbing, slashing, etc) then a rubber knife should really be your only option.
> 
> Two: If no one is going to be stabbed or slashed with the knife, and if the audience is close enough to tell your prop knife is rubber, then a real knife may be needed. However you should NEVER put a sharpened real knife on stage. As far as I'm concerned taping the blade is not acceptable either. I head to the local thrift store and buy the knife I want for dirt cheap. Then I take the knife to the shop and grind it down. Dull the entire blade, nice an blunt, removing the entire edge. Do not leave a pointed tip either, round it off. Grind it down until you can safely slice it back and forth across your hand. Even with a carefully dulled down blade, you should NEVER use this knife to do any sort of a physical attack on an actor. Safety first, the look of the show second.



I would add that hiring a fight director (or somebody, _anybody_, trained) would have showed the actors how to use the knife safely. As with most accidents, this was entirely preventable.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Jun 8, 2015)

StradivariusBone said:


> You'd be hard pressed to break skin with these. They are very blunt, light plastic things. Possibly bruise, but I'd think that'd be possible with bad choreography and a rubber knife alone.



Perhaps, and it probably would take a lot of effort to break skin, but I've know actors who've made a fuss out of much much less than a bruise. For some performers, a bruise is probably enough to send the understudy in. Where I work, the production management team, let alone the actor themselves and Equity, would NOT be happy if a prop like that malfunctioned. Of course we'd have a fight director and everything, but its still a risk we cannot take.


----------



## StradivariusBone (Jun 8, 2015)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Perhaps, and it probably would take a lot of effort to break skin, but I've know actors who've made a fuss out of much much less than a bruise. For some performers, a bruise is probably enough to send the understudy in. Where I work, the production management team, let alone the actor themselves and Equity, would NOT be happy if a prop like that malfunctioned. Of course we'd have a fight director and everything, but its still a risk we cannot take.



Fair enough. I deal with high school kids, and we do have the occasional prima donna who'd make a fuss, but most of the kids would shrug something like that off. Not to sound callous, but I have a hard time finding sympathy for an adult who can't deal with a minor bruise. Obviously if there is negligence or a broken prop that needs to be addressed, but I have no patience for people who make mountains out of molehills. In our situation the actor was not moving fast enough to actually cause any sort of contusion. If they had we would have corrected it to ensure that the "stab-ee" would've remained unharmed.

With the knives we use the only way it would malfunction is if you jammed something in there. The spring is not stiff in any way and there's nothing to catch on as they slide inside a rail and we tested them pretty extensively before we did the gag, but I definitely can see with a metal or pointy plastic blade it would be a greater risk. I still stand by my 3-year-old rule and he has fiddled with these before.

I think the best insurance, as has been stated, is getting someone who knows how to create these illusions training the talent to not kill or harm each other.


----------



## What Rigger? (Jun 9, 2015)

gafftaper said:


> So for those reading this asking, what could they have done to make this safe. There are two options I go with. Others, Please add your ideas for how to safely have a knife on stage below.
> 
> One: The safest and prefered option. Use a prop rubber knife. There are many options for rubber knifes all over the Internet. Amazon has multiple options starting about $5. You can paint them to look more realistic. Depending on how far away the audience is from the stage, a rubber knife may not look realistic, however if you are doing any sort of actual assult (stabbing, slashing, etc) then a rubber knife should really be your only option.
> 
> Two: If no one is going to be stabbed or slashed with the knife, and if the audience is close enough to tell your prop knife is rubber, then a real knife may be needed. However you should NEVER put a sharpened real knife on stage. As far as I'm concerned taping the blade is not acceptable either. I head to the local thrift store and buy the knife I want for dirt cheap. Then I take the knife to the shop and grind it down. Dull the entire blade, nice an blunt, removing the entire edge. Do not leave a pointed tip either, round it off. Grind it down until you can safely slice it back and forth across your hand. Even with a carefully dulled down blade, you should NEVER use this knife to do any sort of a physical attack on an actor. Safety first, the look of the show second.



Everything he said, +1!


----------

