# High school students on ladders



## AlexDonkle (Sep 19, 2014)

For the people here that work in high school theatres with dead-hung rigging, I'm looking for some feedback on whether or not your students are ever allowed up on ladders to hang / focus lights themselves. The two most common responses seem to be either "no" or "not while anyone from the admin office is in the theatre" (the latter was the case in my school growing up). 

In general it's always seemed like a bad practice, especially from a liability perspective, to allow students to hang lights up on ladders themselves, but I can also see how the rules get bent overtime especially with older students who've been trained how to hang lights safely. (Assuming in all cases that students are never allowed on scaffolding or motorized lifts). Curious what everyone here thinks on the subject though.


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## MNicolai (Sep 19, 2014)

Place I used to work had counterweight rigging in one theater, fixed positions in the other. School's insurance policy had an immovable rule that no students could use lifts if they were under 18. If they were over 18 and had gone through lift training, it was fine. As for ladders, it was never a problem when they were used so long as we never found anybody goofing around. Even got a couple positions higher than me convinced it was probably safer to use lifts than ladders, but there was no way our insurance policy was going to make an exception without a significant effort put into an appeal.

Guess it depends which kinds of ladder(s) you have and how safe they are or if they're modified death machines on wheels. If you're really concerned, make everyone take a ladder safety course online where you have to watch videos on all the different ladder types and uses and take quizzes. Gonna remain that the best safety policy is keep students away from the theater that exhibit recklessness.

My best estimation though is that this decision is above your pay grade. If you want to know what your school's policy is, contact your director of facilities or buildings and grounds and see what they say. Could be that they're perfectly okay with students on ladders so long as a competent adult is present to make sure nobody does anything foolish.

Done a lot of work at high school and college levels with ladders. Only injury I've seen to-date was from someone who climbed down the ladder, stepped back off of it a couple feet, and fell backwards off the lip of the stage a couple feet and broke his wrist. Otherwise no horror stories or cases of gross negligence to report. Ladders are pretty safe if you're using the right one for the job the right way.

Begs the question, at the high school in question, how high is trim height and which kind(s) of ladders are used to get up there?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 19, 2014)

I see it split - some do and some don't. I do think ladders are one of the more common hazards and that a lift would be less of a hazard. Some schools won't let students on catwalks, even those accessed by an ordinary stair.

Do you think the changes that make schools and other institutions more risk averse have resulted in whatbseemsvlike a decrease in entertainment technology at the college level?


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## TheaterEd (Sep 19, 2014)

Not 100% on this, but I was told in the state of Wisconsin that students are not allowed to go higher than 6' on A frame ladders. No one has told me that they are not allowed to climb the ladders to the catwalk and follow spot position though, so I'm not asking.

That being said, our electrics are on winches. The students hang the fixtures, and then either myself or an 18 year old student use the lift to fine tune them.


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 19, 2014)

We have a Genie and up until last year students were permitted to operate it. I don't think it was allowed even then, but the powers that be recently determined that everyone who rides the lift has to take a course (unfortunately it was a course for boom and scissor and we had to teach the instructor how to use the awp, but whatever). I've never heard anything about ladders. One of the more terrifying things about our space is that we have a loft over our workshop (concrete and steel, original construction) that is only accessible by placing a 12' ladder next to the gate and climbing up. 

Yes, I know. The story told is that they ran out of money in the design process and cut the spiral staircases that were supposed to provide access. I'd love to find a way to install a permanent ladder with a cage. 

We do have a fly system so anything with a lot of changes, we just fly in the pipe and the kids work on it from the deck. I'm the only one who goes up in the bucket to do the actual focusing, with the kids helping out by moving the lift. During set builds we'll have kids mostly on 6-10' ladders. Rarely are they more than 6' above the ground on a ladder though. In my experience the most dangerous thing about kids and ladders is when they leave their tools on top...


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## Footer (Sep 19, 2014)

When I taught my students did everything... they drove our scissor lift, went up in the genie, built on ladders, used saws, welded, focused, wired connectors, connected cams, operated and weighted fly systems... and everything else that you do every day in this business. If you can't go up and do the work you might as well not have the program. I was there to TEACH, not to DO.


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## JJBerman (Sep 19, 2014)

My high school allows students to use the ladders. Most of the time the use is very quick and not time consuming. When getting into focusing and performing repairs in the air, we as a rule of thumb require a more experienced user. For focusing students are allowed to, if we believe they are competent and safe.

Many times, if the student is competent safe and hard working, we hire him for local crew and then they are (after training) allowed to use the genie lift and are under the schools employee insurance if anything were to happen.

There is always the Tech Director or Building Manager on duty to supervise the students.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## llburg (Sep 19, 2014)

Back when I was in HS, (pretty recently), we had very ladders that were best described with the word "sketchy". I refused To let anybody continue using one of them. We also had a scissor lift. Any student, with proper training, was allowed to drive and use it. Even outside groups used it. (This was a crazy space with a lot of unmanageable community entitlement to free use of the space in whatever capacity they pleased. Don't get me started.)


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 19, 2014)

Footer said:


> I was there to TEACH, not to DO.



We're fortunate enough to have a marine mechanics and an auto shop here on campus. Both instructors approach it the same way and both do business with the community, much like we do in the PAC. I treat my students like employees, even the ones that aren't hired on the crew, it's one of the few things in high school where they actually learn something useful instead of just how to bubble a sheet correctly.


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## MNicolai (Sep 19, 2014)

TheaterEd said:


> Not 100% on this, but I was told in the state of Wisconsin that students are not allowed to go higher than 6' on A frame ladders. No one has told me that they are not allowed to climb the ladders to the catwalk and follow spot position though, so I'm not asking.
> 
> That being said, our electrics are on winches. The students hang the fixtures, and then either myself or an 18 year old student use the lift to fine tune them.



This applies only if your students performing duties required of them by an employer, as stipulated by the WI Admin Code


> DWD 270.12(12) Hoists and hoisting apparatus.
> (a) Prohibitions. Except as provided in par. (c), no minor may be employed in the following occupations involved in the operation of power–driven hoisting apparatus:
> 1. Work of operating an elevator, crane, derrick, hoist or high–lift truck, except operating an unattended automatic operation passenger elevator or an electric or air–operated hoist not exceeding one–ton capacity except as specified in par. (c).
> 2. Work which involves riding on a man lift or on a freight elevator, except a freight elevator operated by an assigned operator.
> 3. Work of assisting in the operation of a crane, derrick, or hoist performed by crane hookers, crane chasers, hookers–on, riggers, rigger helpers, and like occupations.




> DWD 270.13 Hazardous employment prohibited to minors under 16 years of age. The employment of minors under 16 years of age in the following occupations or places of employment shall be deemed to be dangerous or prejudicial to the life, health, safety, or welfare of the minor and other employees or frequenters, except as provided in s. DWD 270.14. No employer may employ or permit a minor under 16 years of age to work in the following occupations or places of employment:
> ...
> (11)Ladders. No minor under 16 years of age may work on a ladder, scaffold, or similar device more than 6 feet high.




Furthermore, an exemption is made for students in work-study programs, but this exemption is not necessary if your students aren't employed or compensated in the first place for their duties on ladders.

> (3) Student learner.
> (a) Except as provided in par. (f), a student learner shall be exempt from the prohibitions in ss. DWD 270.12 and 270.13 if the student learner is performing service within a bona fide school–work training program sponsored by an accredited school and authorized and approved by the state department of public instruction, the technical college system board, or the department's youth apprenticeship program.
> (b) For the purpose of this subsection, a student learner is a student of an accredited school who is employed on a part–time basis to obtain both scholastic credit and employment training under a bona fide written school–work training program agreement.
> (c) Each school–work training agreement shall contain the name of the student learner; shall be signed by the parent, employer, and school principal; shall be kept on file by both the school and the employer; and shall provide all of the following:
> ...


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## techieman33 (Sep 19, 2014)

We used ladders in high school. Our primary ladder for focus was a rolling staircase like you see in a big box store so no one was really that concerned about the safety aspect of things.


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## AshleyB (Sep 21, 2014)

I went to a performing arts high school, and not only were we encouraged to use ladders of all kinds, you couldn't graduate to the advanced classes til you had balanced atop the extension ladder and hung a light on your own.  But then, we did all kinds of things that were probably not blessed by the state...or the school attorneys.


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## de27192 (Oct 1, 2014)

Any school which says you can't use a Genie or a Catwalk but can use a ladder is totally barmy and teaching kids the wrong thing entirely! The ideal situation in the world is we don't have to use ladders ever and can reach everything from a fixed or mechanical platform. Ladders are a last resort thing which we resort to far too much because they are convenient for us to store, and convenient for the accountants to budget. But the access hierarchy should be followed and clearly going hands free on a ladder to focus a luminaire should never be seen in preference to the nice safe environment of a genie or tallescope basket, with their handrails and toe boards.


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## np18358 (Oct 1, 2014)

At my school, any student is allowed to use the Metal/Fiberglass A Frames, which range from 6' to 14'. The latter being used rarely, and only by experienced techs. We also have a wood 18', which we have determined is unsafe, however there is a soft good position that we frequently hang off, that is only accessible using this style of ladder, and it must be 18'. So we have determined that only teachers can use it, and they use fall arrest gear to clip on to the adjacent vertical Box Boom pipe, as we have had some issues in the past. In terms of lifts, we have a genie, and we get another from the district when we do our big musical, and they don't have a protocol for students using it. The tech teachers have determined that we can use them if trained and responsible, and under adult supervision, however some us students who are more seasoned techs, are allowed to do so without an adult. In terms of other things, we can weld if we get a parent signed waiver, and a few select students are allowed to use the table saw. Students can weight and rig, no teachers needed, except if we do taildowns, those can get dangerous, so we usually want a teacher there for that. Myself and another student are also allowed to do three phase ties, but with adults present, and that happens rarely.


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## AlexDonkle (Oct 2, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Do you think the changes that make schools and other institutions more risk averse have resulted in whatbseemsvlike a decrease in entertainment technology at the college level?



Possibly, but it also depends on the school's staff. Within a given budget the trade-offs seem to go between safety, convenience, and flexibility. Unfortunately teachers seem to generally have differing opinions on this within a school.

I was also looking at the Little Giant Cage ladder recently, working height up to ~19' with a safety cage at the top of the ladder. Other than the high theft risk (they grow legs pretty quickly on construction sites), these seem like a great option for safer use of ladders.


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## kicknargel (Oct 2, 2014)

de27192 said:


> Any school which says you can't use a Genie or a Catwalk but can use a ladder is totally barmy and teaching kids the wrong thing entirely! The ideal situation in the world is we don't have to use ladders ever and can reach everything from a fixed or mechanical platform. Ladders are a last resort thing which we resort to far too much because they are convenient for us to store, and convenient for the accountants to budget. But the access hierarchy should be followed and clearly going hands free on a ladder to focus a luminaire should never be seen in preference to the nice safe environment of a genie or tallescope basket, with their handrails and toe boards.



Not arguing, just asking: is this based on any data, or personal opinion?

Although you're certainly less likely to fall out of a lift than off a ladder, the mechanical nature and moving parts introduce new dangers. Like driving off a stage or coming down on an obstacle that breaks and falls on someone, or any number of things I can imagine. Maybe lifts are safer, but I don't think I'm qualified to say so unequivocally. One of the worst theatre accidents to anyone I know had to do with a lift that had a tipping feature to get through doorways.


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## de27192 (Oct 2, 2014)

kicknargel said:


> Not arguing, just asking: is this based on any data, or personal opinion?
> 
> Although you're certainly less likely to fall out of a lift than off a ladder, the mechanical nature and moving parts introduce new dangers. Like driving off a stage or coming down on an obstacle that breaks and falls on someone, or any number of things I can imagine. Maybe lifts are safer, but I don't think I'm qualified to say so unequivocally. One of the worst theatre accidents to anyone I know had to do with a lift that had a tipping feature to get through doorways.



Not so much data - but principle. Although, in the UK the HSE openly admit that falls from ladders are one of the biggest causes of injuries and fatalities in the UK workplace.

A ladder is not, really, a work platform. You're standing on a rung, and you've nowhere to move quickly, nothing to lean on sideways or backwards of yourself, and little to grab if you are starting to fall. Due to the low weight of a ladder, a fall from a ladder where (by human instinct) you try to grab on to it, can also mean a ladder ends up on top of you after you hit the ground, furthering your injuries.

I don't disagree that other work platforms can carry their own risks. A scissor lift or genie lift can indeed by driven over the front of a stage. Those genies you have to push into position can offer manual handling injuries. Access towers can be more dangerous to build at great height than the risk which they reduce - especially when supplied with the bare minimum of parts as hire companies tend to do. But these risks can be mitigated - often easily. For instance, the risk of driving a machine over the edge could be mitigated by ensuring the stage is well lit during works, or if this is impractical (IE in a focus) by using a barrier over the D/S edge. I designed the rigging install and practice for a new venue about 2 years ago and one of the things I insisted on was that when MEWPs are on the stage, there is a barrier on the D/S edge so it cannot be driven over.

Sadly though it is hard to mitigate the risks on a ladder. The very nature of ladders is that they will be fairly unstable and easy to topple, and that the work area you have at the top of them is very small and does not give you any real opportunity to move without risking a fall or toppling the ladder. I saw a very serious theatre accident where a lampy up a ladder went to move a Source 4 Zoom which had been over-rigged to a fly bar. As he undid the clamp it immediately swung round under the bar and knocked him straight off the ladder - which was a 14 Rung Zarges so he was probably 6m up. It was very serious, it involved paramedics and a spinal board and he was not really alright. Truth be told, had it been a genie or pop up tower... it would have definitely been a brown trousers moment but I'm confident that correct height handrails would have prevented a fall.

I'm not saying risk is eliminated using a work platform but it is certainly reduced. The only way to eliminate risk in work at height is to eliminate work at height. Hence my point that the ideal over the stage is a catwalk or lighting bridge really, as this is as close to not working at height as you can possibly get, owing to the fact that you're standing on solid ground with proper handrails. Adding work restraint PPE so that you cannot possibly get outside the foot print of the catwalk adds further mitigation. The only reason I did not include bridges in the venue I did, was because it is multi use and the stage can be in so many different places that it would be impractical to use fixed bridges. Instead I went with a tension wire grid which is another excellent mitigation for work at height, the risk of falling is none, without the catastrophic failure of the grid.


AlexDonkle said:


> I was also looking at the Little Giant Cage ladder recently, working height up to ~19' with a safety cage at the top of the ladder. Other than the high theft risk (they grow legs pretty quickly on construction sites), these seem like a great option for safer use of ladders.



It's a nice idea but sadly they only go up to a 14' platform height which is 19' max working height which is about 5.5m. Still not high enough in many circumstances. A Tallescope is not a massively different concept and goes much higher. Pop up scaff towers are, in my opinion, an excellent idea. But mechanical access is still, IMHO, the best. As long as it is used in a safe environment by a competent person, the floor space, the handrails, and the lack of fatigue through not having to climb it, make it the safest option overall.


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## Terrence MacArthur (Apr 7, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I see it split - some do and some don't. I do think ladders are one of the more common hazards and that a lift would be less of a hazard. Some schools won't let students on catwalks, even those accessed by an ordinary stair.
> 
> Do you think the changes that make schools and other institutions more risk averse have resulted in whatbseemsvlike a decrease in entertainment technology at the college level?



I think EVERYONE has become more risk averse, and it HAS affected technology at the college level. Understand that I was a theatre student in NY in '72, and am again now in Utah. A couple nights ago we were striking a show, someone was up on a genie detaching a wooden structure that probably weighed about 40 pounds max, and the new (the old one retired last year) tech director (about 30 years younger than me) got upset with me because I was standing under the thing. Only I wasn't. I was below it, but at least 4 fet off to the side, was watching the thing, knew there was nothing and nobody behind me, and already knew just which way it would go if it fell, and there was no way I'd get knocked on the head by the thing if it came down. But apparently I needed to be far enough away so that there was no possibility at all of getting hit if it fell and I just stayed where I was. 40 odd years ago, it would have been assumed I had the sense God gave a goose, was paying attention, and had made sure I could get out of the way in plenty of time if it came down.

That isn't a great example because it isn't something that affects the level of technology that gets used, and whether I was 4 feet off line or 15 feet wasn't going to affect getting the job done. But it is a good example of the attitude today. There has to be absolutely no chance whatsoever of injury or it isn't supposed to be done. I'll never argue with safety, but I will argue when it's taken to serious extremes and keeps thing from getting done, which does seem to happen a lot nowadays.


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## Les (Apr 9, 2015)

I completely agree that Genies are among the safest ways to work at height, but I can definitely understand the friction brought on by schools. OSHA says that lift operators need training - and while students aren't usually within OSHA's jurisdiction, they should still receive proper training and certification. Not "this is up, this is down, and be careful"... I mean a written, required 100% pass test with the potential for yearly refreshers. Teach them early on that the real world requires you to be trained before you can use hazardous equipment and that you can't just fake it till you make it.

Get a job at Home Depot and receive mandatory training before you're allowed to drive (or go up in) anything. Students should absolutely be held to the same standards. 

Refer to the lift manufacturer's guidelines and adhere to them closely.

I used ladders a ton in high school. Usually 6' in the blackbox (12' grid) in which I thought I was invincible and could stand perfectly on the top. This is a mentality to attack head-on as I now see the err of my ways. What we really needed was an 8' ladder but unfortunately no one had the foresight to recognize and correct the issue, including myself.


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## Terrence MacArthur (Apr 9, 2015)

MNicolai said:


> Place I used to work had counterweight rigging in one theater, fixed positions in the other. School's insurance policy had an immovable rule that no students could use lifts if they were under 18. If they were over 18 and had gone through lift training, it was fine. As for ladders, it was never a problem when they were used so long as we never found anybody goofing around. Even got a couple positions higher than me convinced it was probably safer to use lifts than ladders, but there was no way our insurance policy was going to make an exception without a significant effort put into an appeal.



I'm wondering if the insurance people might have softened their position fof any student under 18 who had been through the lift training if they had a signed informed consent from their parents. That 18 years old limit sounds as if the insurance people were worrying about the parents suing for negligence based on the school allowing a minor to do something potentially dangerous.


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## josh88 (Apr 9, 2015)

Les said:


> Get a job at Home Depot and receive mandatory training before you're allowed to drive (or go up in) anything. Students should absolutely be held to the same standards.


Completely agree, I could drive by the time I worked for these stores but I learned how to use drive forklift, use the small forks (a name I can't for the life of me remember) and then a picker lift. Great way to make money and learn useful skills.


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## Les (Apr 9, 2015)

josh88 said:


> Completely agree, I could drive by the time I worked for these stores but I learned how to use drive forklift, use the small forks (a name I can't for the life of me remember) and then a picker lift. Great way to make money and learn useful skills.



Same here. I could drive a lift by the time I was 15, but the OSHA compliant training I received at Lowe's taught me a lot of things I thought I knew already but didn't. That's where the danger lies for many high school students - thinking they know more than they actually do.


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## RileyChilds (Apr 15, 2015)

I was always allowed to use our A-Frame extension ladder, at Central Piedmont Community College I was allowed in the lift, on the ladder, in the Cat Walk, on the grid, and using the flys. Later on I learned it was a massive insurance no-no for me to do all of the above as someone under 18...of course I am 18 now 
Honestly Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't be stupid

//Riley


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## gmff (Apr 15, 2015)

The rule used to be at our high school that only anyone over 18 could go up on the 10' ladders or the cat walk. I had students that were under 18 that wanted to do some lighting and sound work. I checked with the administration, they did not know of any policy like that. It did not take me long to train about ladder saftey. I now have help all the time on the cat walk and the 14' step ladder (we have a cherry picker style lift that we only let staff use). Sometimes it is just busy work (remove or install gels, clean fixtures, wrap up cables) to get the students that want to use a ladder a chance to do so.


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## Fountain Of Euph (Apr 15, 2015)

My high school used ladders quite frequently. They were, for the most part, modern a frames. We had a 10 ft for the lab theater ( 14 ft ceiling) and a 25 or 30 (i think) for the main stage. The bigger one was double sided so two techs could work at the same time. The only dangerous part was putting up and taking down the ladder, which required two or three techs. The only sketch thing was the the "ladder of death": a wood single fly we used to reach the box booms. I was the who primarily used it, however I was also a) a senior, b) fearless/stupid/naive and c) a athlete. We would brace it on the seats, and have someone hold it. We had restrictions too: only focussing/relamping. Any fixturs that needed to be moved had to be done so by the band director. 

A thought for the OP: maybe pick up a rolling scaffold. Alot safer than eather a lift or a ladder.


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## Les (Apr 15, 2015)

A few notes on scaffolding which I have seen overlooked. 

1). Must have proper railing (supplied by the manufacturer) and;
2). Must have a proper ladder 

I have seen a few cases where students were climbing the cross-braces to get to the top of a platform with no rails. This totally negates the safety of a scaffold. Also, lock the wheels and never allow the scaffold to be ridden from one position to the next.


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## kendal69 (Apr 15, 2015)

Doesn't matter if they are students or not. Proper safety precaution must be followed ALL the time by EVERYONE. Working around ladders you should have two people always. One to climb one to steady / counter weight / safety partner. Both wear hard hat ( WHY NOT ) if the guy above drops a wrench the lower guy get clobbered. Fall protection ALWAYS. Climb ladder, secure to truss / pipe/ structure if you can reach it. 
One can never have too much safety gear on to protect yourself, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you can't do it safely - DON'T DO IT no matter who is telling you to do it, teacher, boss, friend, wife, husband Mom, Dad, - just walk away.


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## Les (Apr 15, 2015)

kendal69 said:


> Doesn't matter if they are students or not. Proper safety precaution must be followed ALL the time by EVERYONE.



As someone with multiple OSHA certifications and what will soon be a degree in Occupational Safety, I fully agree. I used the term "students" simply because that's who I saw climbing the scaffold.


kendal69 said:


> One can never have too much safety gear on to protect yourself, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.



One doesn't usually require a Level A Hazmat suit to operate a mop, but I see where you're going with it and I mostly agree. However, PPE should be a "last resort" after all other engineering controls have been put in to place. If you can neutralize or eliminate a hazard, do that first. If a hazard still exists, don the appropriate PPE. Make the task as safe as possible before throwing on a bunch of PPE and hoping it works.

(I'm all for PPE for the record - I just see too many people who throw on a bunch of gear without thinking the task through and considering that there may be an even safer way to do it which wouldn't put themselves or others in harm's way in the first place.)


kendal69 said:


> If you can't do it safely - DON'T DO IT no matter who is telling you to do it, teacher, boss, friend, wife, husband Mom, Dad, - just walk away.



100%


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## MNicolai (Apr 15, 2015)

kendal69 said:


> Working around ladders you should have two people always.



This one is really easy to overlook, but I want to reiterate how important it is. A colleague of mine was saying the other day how he worked at a place where a guy was changing out lights in their warehouse on a 12' ladder. He wasn't far from other people, but managed to fall without making much noise. Nobody heard him fall, and the ladder didn't tip over so it was awhile before they found him. By that time he was in a pool of his own blood and couldn't be saved.


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## robartsd (Apr 16, 2015)

kendal69 said:


> Working around ladders you should have two people always.


This actually should apply to any work at height - there needs to be someone on the ground who is aware of what is going on and and call for help.


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## Dionysus (Apr 16, 2015)

MNicolai said:


> This one is really easy to overlook, but I want to reiterate how important it is. A colleague of mine was saying the other day how he worked at a place where a guy was changing out lights in their warehouse on a 12' ladder. He wasn't far from other people, but managed to fall without making much noise. Nobody heard him fall, and the ladder didn't tip over so it was awhile before they found him. By that time he was in a pool of his own blood and couldn't be saved.



It is overlooked ALL THE TIME, just about everywhere. How many stories I've heard. How many times I've heard people saying "why do you need me here? I do this alone all the time" etc etc ad nauseam. Even here where EVERYONE going up a ladder is supposed to have at least at height and ladder training. Most of said training seems to fly out of most people's heads the second the training is over, and it seems such a bother to follow the simplest of safety precautions for at-height work.
This goes double more with students if you let them (and with people who have been doing this for "this long").

On an Extension ladder? HAVE A FOOT! I've actually had to rescue someone before because the ladder took off with no foot. If he had asked I would of gladly footed the ladder.

Then again most of the time it seems to be that many would rather have someone being "productive" rather than standing at the bottom of a ladder.

Oh I could go on all day....

Ladder Safety is SO IMPORTANT.

Anyways...
The local school board several years ago made the determination that *NO STAFF OR STUDENTS OR VOLUNTEERS *could work at height. This includes custodial staff. This actually allowed them to save a LOT of money on insurance.

Shortly after this was announced my friend and mentor (and highschool drama teacher) let the school board know that this would more or less cease drama class activities including lighting and audio. The school board did not much care at first. Eventually he managed to get the "okay" to have staff and students with appropriate training to work at height UNDER 10'. This is good for most drama classes (a couple schools this would impede).
So schools with taller grids in drama rooms could make no changes to lighting without hiring a contractor to come in.

Time came to do a musical in my old high school, in the "small gym" (both gyms have stages, however the large gym's lighting system is from 1969 and needs to be replaced and there is NO lighting or audio in the small gym. The gym needs to go though a week-long transformation into a theatre. Hang portable dimmers, lighting, audio, etc.).
The only local contractor with the liability the school board required to do the necessary at-height work was a commercial electrical contractor with absolutely no theatre experience. I was asked if I would be able to come in as a volunteer to help make sure things happened, as I was also coming in to help the kids with the lighting and sound design (not volunteer). So I agreed to giving a few hours to help make sure things went okay... This was not enough...
Regardless I had to guide the electricians in re-doing most of the work they had done (from the ground), while they treated me like a know-it-all. Regardless I was doing a friend a favor (which is good, he always gets me back).
After the show the school got the bill from the electricians. They were *NOT HAPPY*. Basically the money they had saved on insurance had to go into one show. They are lucky I did not give them a bill myself (really I should of).

So it came down to, NO MORE SHOWS or bite the bullet and spend some more money. The question is in what way. In a school board where the usual annual Drama Department Budget per school is $500, there is not much money to throw at theatre. Then again that's why putting on shows is so important, to supplement the budget with funds. And to give the students extra-curricular activities and a richer learning environment in the arts.

They learned their lesson. They picked up their liability insurance back to where it should be. Still anyone working at height has to be able to prove that they have the necessary credentials for the work they are doing. Safety Awareness, WHIMIS, Fall Arrest, scaffolding, lift, etc.. This is good, the training really is necessary I think as common sense is not common at all it would appear. Of course anything the students may help with needs to be supervised by someone who is qualified and responsible, along with any volunteers etc who are qualified needing to be supervised by staff.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 16, 2015)

I was on a project site and watched the gc's super stand on the top of a 10' A-frame (I footed the base) instead of getting a 12 or 14'. I refused because my reach was 6" short from second step below top and refused to go to one step below stop with only a masking leg to hold onto. Super was significantly shorter than I and therefore had to go to top. I would have gone one more step if I had something better to hold - like a batten - and was not so close to a new, expensive projection screen - which I couldn't quite reach the frame of. The super did demand we not tell anyone. I admit, I don't where a pfd when I go flat water canoeing unless it noticeably windy.


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## robartsd (Apr 17, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I admit, I don't where a pfd when I go flat water canoeing unless it noticeably windy.


I hope you at least have it in the boat (I don't believe adults are required to wear, but they are required to have a PFD).


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## AsherSB (Apr 17, 2015)

I'm a high school student, and our school has 3 ladders, I think something like an 8 foot, 12 foot and a 20 foot extendable A-frame. The school keeps no technical crew on staff, so its students and the drama teacher who hang and focus lights. This normally involves setting up the big ladder under the front of house line, and climbing up and down with lights (anything from lightweight pars, to gigantic Altmans.) We don't have any fall protection, or safety gear, and we let up almost anyone who is brave enough to do it. In fact one of my first days in the theater was spent helping to focus from the ladder. We hang everything on fixed bars and tracks flanking the stage, one of which is almost falling out of the ceiling. The worst part is that this terrible safety procedure is what the school district wants us to do, they took our lift years before I joined, and it has been this way ever since. The sad truth is that theater programs are so underfunded and overlooked that this is the only way to go about lighting a show. But at least we have a theater, our new building might not even have that much.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 17, 2015)

robartsd said:


> I hope you at least have it in the boat (I don't believe adults are required to wear, but they are required to have a PFD).


Yes - and where I can reach it - thank you. And when I'm with Scouts - I wear it - since that's the BSA way.


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