# Stage Set X Crushing in Rope Lock



## Footer (Dec 5, 2010)

We have 52 double purchase linesets that have all been rigged with Stage Set X purchase lines. They were installed in stages over a 6 month span 5 years ago replacing manila lines. Being the house I am in works in a rep situation, many lines are trimmed at one or two trims 99% of the time. The rope locks we are using at Secoa brand circa mid 70's. The locks are tentioned to the point that the handle is easy to operate but it holds the line securely. 

That being said... nearly every purchase line that we use often (borders, legs, main rag, 8 electrics, cyc, BOD,) are being crushed into basically football shapes at each trim. This in turn requires us to tighten the tension screw to hold the line a bit tighter. I am already pushing to get the lines replaced and we are now using buddy bars any time we have an out of weight load on the deck, no matter how small. This is the first house I have worked in with Stage Set X, usually I work around multi-line II. So, is this a common thing? What can prevent this? With the amount the line costs, one would think it would last longer then 5 years. Is there a brand of rope lock that works better with this type of line? We have twice annual rigging inspections and the inspectors noted and are calipering it to see if changes are occuring. I'm not worried about losing a load, but I don't want to put any more wear on the line in order to keep a load still.


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## avkid (Dec 5, 2010)

Has anyone from J.R. Clancy been contacted?


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## DuckJordan (Dec 5, 2010)

how far off weight do you normally load and where is your loading rail located? can you have someone on load rail loading weights while the the lineset is all the way in to load or do you have to bring in the line set, load, then bring down lock down and then load weight?

it almost sounds like what was happening at my old high school with their hemp system. (it was hemp fiber rope in the new style carriage system) The director decided that they shouldn't put their weight on the weight floor because it was too hard to get too, (two ladders located 10 feet way from the fly rail) 

He would put all they weight on the batten side then have us fly it up with pure strength then while it was locked down upwards of 200 LB. on batten side we would load weight.


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## Footer (Dec 5, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> how far off weight do you normally load and where is your loading rail located? can you have someone on load rail loading weights while the the lineset is all the way in to load or do you have to bring in the line set, load, then bring down lock down and then load weight?



Its a standard double purchase situation with a fly floor and loading rail. Its a standard fly house, so at any given time we could be bringing in 200-1000# of drops, scenery, signage, etc into the deck. Its a double purchase system, operating a double purchase system without a weight rail is nearly impossible unless you have a capstan winch and even then it is an extremely slow process. 

I'm not really focusing on how our rail operate or how we use the system. I am mainly interested in if anyone has seen this happen and has anyone found a way to prevent it? I am not actually sure if it was real stage set X installed or some other vary similar line. We are really at the very begining of this investigation. With the stuff costing 1.40 a ft, I am looking at if this was operator/facility error or if it is a fault of the type of line.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 6, 2010)

Footer said:


> Its a standard double purchase situation with a fly floor and loading rail. Its a standard fly house, so at any given time we could be bringing in 200-1000# of drops, scenery, signage, etc into the deck. Its a double purchase system, operating a double purchase system without a weight rail is nearly impossible unless you have a capstan winch and even then it is an extremely slow process.
> 
> I'm not really focusing on how our rail operate or how we use the system. I am mainly interested in if anyone has seen this happen and has anyone found a way to prevent it? I am not actually sure if it was real stage set X installed or some other vary similar line. We are really at the very begining of this investigation. With the stuff costing 1.40 a ft, I am looking at if this was operator/facility error or if it is a fault of the type of line.



Well FWIW, it happened with our hemp rope, possibly different conditions but it did happen. I'm not familiar with stage set x though.


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## avkid (Dec 6, 2010)

Are the tracers green or black?
If they are green you may have Suregrip.
Call or e-mail J.R. Clancy and ask for a sample of Stage-Set X in the same diameter as what you have installed to compare.


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## kicknargel (Dec 6, 2010)

At one of my theaters they've have stage set x as handline on the counterweight system (including electrics and main rag that usually trim the same) for a least a few decades and I've never noticed this problem. Not sure the brand of lock.


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## MPowers (Dec 6, 2010)

Don't really know what to say on this one. I've never seen this problem before. The very nature of the construction, the parallel fiber core with a braided outer cover, resists crushing and in fact would tend to return to shape after being released from the lock. 

As for different types of locks, yes, there is a new kid on the block, introduced just last year as a part of the new Thern Brick house Counterweight system Thern Stage Equipment | Counterweight Systems . The internal working of the lock does not crush the line between two jaws like the SECOA lock, the Clancy lock or the H&H Specialties lock, but rather uses a cam action rather like a very small uncle buddy. Very efficient and does not crush the rope. If you call the factory direct (1.800.553.2204) to ask about it, ask for Mike Kunz (spelling?) extension 253 and tell him I sent you.


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## Footer (Dec 7, 2010)

MPowers said:


> Don't really know what to say on this one. I've never seen this problem before. The very nature of the construction, the parallel fiber core with a braided outer cover, resists crushing and in fact would tend to return to shape after being released from the lock.
> 
> As for different types of locks, yes, there is a new kid on the block, introduced just last year as a part of the new Thern Brick house Counterweight system Thern Stage Equipment | Counterweight Systems . The internal working of the lock does not crush the line between two jaws like the SECOA lock, the Clancy lock or the H&H Specialties lock, but rather uses a cam action rather like a very small uncle buddy. Very efficient and does not crush the rope. If you call the factory direct (1.800.553.2204) to ask about it, ask for Mike Kunz (spelling?) extension 253 and tell him I sent you.


 
Thanks Mike. I would love to see these locks replaced at some point. As long as the locks that Thern is making are better then magic locks that would make me happy. I hate magic locks... it seams every spike mark that passes through those thinks causes them to lock up. Next time I am in I am going to start pushing this a bit more. There is a very good possibility that it was not real stage set X installed.


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## photoatdv (Dec 7, 2010)

Footer said:


> Thanks Mike. I would love to see these locks replaced at some point. As long as the locks that Thern is making are better then magic locks that would make me happy. I hate magic locks... it seams every spike mark that passes through those thinks causes them to lock up. Next time I am in I am going to start pushing this a bit more. There is a very good possibility that it was not real stage set X installed.



Is there an end where it's tied to the arbor that you can see the cross section of the rope? If so you could compare that to the known construction of the stage set x.


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