# Podium pro audio



## dhsstagecrew (May 10, 2012)

One of my stage crew students who is also a Dj is in the beginning stages of assembling some reasonably priced gear for gigs with a local high school band (his new hobbby). He (we) are wondering if there is enough quality in the brand to go ahead with the purchase? He is only purchasing a pair of 18" subs and an amp to power them. I do not know the model numbers yet, we are just wondering if anyone has any experience with the brand, good or bad? I did a quick search of the forum and couldn't find any results, if I missed something please link and I will check it out.


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## bishopthomas (May 10, 2012)

I've never heard of "Podium Pro Audio." I came into this thread expecting to read about lecterns. For a DJ rig I would go with powered speakers rather than the complication of a power amp and speakers. It's just one more thing to have to cable up. I would recommend QSC for powered speakers. We have K10's, K12's, and K Subs and they're great sounding speakers. A DJ company I work with using HPR's (12" tops and 18" subs) and they sound really good too. None of this gear has ever had any sort of problems. If you want to listen to any of this before you commit, we're off exit 8 on the turnpike.


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## dhsstagecrew (May 10, 2012)

Thank you, bishopthomas! I will let him know.


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## 65535 (May 10, 2012)

I would personally choose unpowered speakers for 2 reasons. Reason 1 being you only have to run a speaker cable out to the speakers, not signal and separate power. Number 2 unpowered speakers of the same size weigh a lot less, you'll make up that weight with your amps in a rack.


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## avkid (May 10, 2012)

We put the power and signal in the same cable.
That is a bad argument.


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## BillESC (May 10, 2012)

Also, using passive speakers and amplifiers is not as simple as using actives. Actives are designed to take the questions out of the equation. Give them AC and signal and you're good to go. No having to think about Ohms, wattage delivery, etc. And with the new electronica, weight considerations are out the door.


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## chausman (May 11, 2012)

avkid said:


> We put the power and signal in the same cable.
> That is a bad argument.



Do you have something fancy to do this, or is it just tape?


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## FMEng (May 11, 2012)

Power and audio in one cable.....

Pro Co Sound - Siamese Twins


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## avkid (May 11, 2012)

That stuff is well, cheap. 

We use a much nicer version made by Link.


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## chausman (May 11, 2012)

avkid said:


> That stuff is well, cheap.
> 
> We use a much nicer version made by Link.



Do you have a...well, link by chance?

*pun not intended, but hilarious. 


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## avkid (May 11, 2012)

Their website is more than a bit clumsy.
Link USA > Home

It's in the eurocable catalog.

But they look like this:


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## chausman (May 11, 2012)

avkid said:


> Their website is more than a bit clumsy.
> Link USA > Home
> 
> It's in the eurocable catalog.
> ...



Thanks. I found linkusa.com, but not link-inc.com. That's pretty cool. Those would have been nice for our marching band. 


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## derekleffew (May 11, 2012)

avkid said:


> ...But they look like this:View attachment 6957


So after years, even decades, of being told not to run audio cables parallel to power cables, they come up with this!


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## Chris15 (May 11, 2012)

Also clunky is the Link (Italy) website - the stuff is made in Italy after all 
Linkitaly.com


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## FMEng (May 11, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> So after years, even decades, of being told not to run audio cables parallel to power cables, they come up with this!



Separating audio and power is more legend than fact. The important thing is that the audio is balanced and the power conductors are twisted. Running unbalanced audio more than 6 feet is what perpetuates the legend.


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## 65535 (May 11, 2012)

Maybe it's AES/EBU over 100Ω shielded twisted pair, shouldn't be susceptible to 60Hz interference. With a high quality DAC used to produce a bi-amped signal using the 2 channels provided.


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## Clarkwg3 (May 12, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> So after years, even decades, of being told not to run audio cables parallel to power cables, they come up with this!



With proper sheilding, you could run an unbalenced line level signal next to 600A mains headed over to dimmer land.


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## neotrotsky (May 19, 2012)

My biggest concern is why is he trying to get 18" Cabinets? Bigger speakers doesn't equal better sound... just more noise. If he is trying to get more volume, I would actually say for him to save money: A set of decent 15" or even 12" cabinets and a suplimentary set of 10" monitor wedges that have a spread that can be used as mains would be FAR more effective and can give him much cleaner sound with the same power and can probably save him some money. 18"s are kind of an odd duck for a simple DJ rig.


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## Les (May 19, 2012)

Keep in mind here that the OP is asking about subs. 

The advice regarding mains is very good, though (especially if he is waiting to purchase mains even though it sounds* odd to purchase the subs first - *literally). 

Subs take such a beating that I would take care to purchase something robust. Since no one so far has really indicated any knowledge of the brand, I am skeptical. Unless the Podiums can be tried in person, I would not buy them. Imagine the cost of shipping them back!


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## neotrotsky (May 19, 2012)

Les said:


> Keep in mind here that the OP is asking about subs.
> 
> The advice regarding mains is very good, though (especially if he is waiting to purchase mains even though it sounds* odd to purchase the subs first - *literally).
> 
> Subs take such a beating that I would take care to purchase something robust. Since no one so far has really indicated any knowledge of the brand, I am skeptical. Unless the Podiums can be tried in person, I would not buy them. Imagine the cost of shipping them back!



My error. Missed the Bass driver part. 

Perhaps there is a Sam Ash or Guitar Center where you can at least audition some of the Bass drivers they have on the showroom floor? If they have them in stock at those full line joints, you can be assured they are of the more "affordable" branding. I honestly wouldn't mess around with unknown brands, simply because your speakers are the end point (although your signal is only as strong as your weakest link) and take the most abuse out of the entire system. You can have a great mix and a good ear with the best cable, but if you have speakers with lousy frequency response and are playing compressed media through them, it won't matter and you'll spend all your time trying to EQ out noise that shouldn't be there in the first place. It's a hell of a way for anyone new to live sound to start out.

**Addendum**

Although, to be fair I do have two sets of "cheap" speaker kit and amp I've bought off of Musician's Friend (Phonic), but those are for "cafe" kits and anywhere where I need a set that is durable and not going to send me into a hulk-rage mode if it gets dropped or mis-patched and blown. So, I am by no means some sort of gearslut. But, cheap speakers can sometimes be worse than no speakers. Has he looked at some of the examples from Alto or by Peavey even? They're affordable and actually have some credibility. I've personally been VERY impressed by Alto speakers for what you pay. You get some serious response out of those for not alot of cash.


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## FMEng (May 20, 2012)

Clarkwg3 said:


> With proper sheilding, you could run an unbalenced line level signal next to 600A mains headed over to dimmer land.



Sorry, but I disagree. Shielding just isn't very effective at 60 Hz. Any current on the shield couples to the signal conductor and the result is hums and buzzes. The common mode rejection of a balanced line is far more effective than any shield. I can show you clean audio systems that run balanced over UN-SHIELDED, twisted pair for thousands of feet with a resulting signal to noise ratio close to 80 dB. I know because I built them and measured the results. Try doing that with an unbalanced, shielded cable. It would be impossible. 

Your telephone works fine through lines that share the same poles with high voltage power distribution because it uses balanced, unshielded, twisted pairs.


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## neotrotsky (May 20, 2012)

FMEng said:


> Sorry, but I disagree. Shielding just isn't very effective at 60 Hz. Any current on the shield couples to the signal conductor and the result is hums and buzzes. The common mode rejection of a balanced line is far more effective than any shield. I can show you clean audio systems that run balanced over UN-SHIELDED, twisted pair for thousands of feet with a resulting signal to noise ratio close to 80 dB. I know because I built them and measured the results. Try doing that with an unbalanced, shielded cable. It would be impossible.
> 
> Your telephone works fine through lines that share the same poles with high voltage power distribution because it uses balanced, unshielded, twisted pairs.



Also, you shouldn't run unbalanced line for any legitimate distance simply because of interference beyond just power feeds. Besides, it should be the FIRST thing to remove from the equation when looking for interference: Separating power from signal lines. It *may* be shielded, and it may run a balance twisted pair, but not all power is clean and not every signal operates in the same even band.


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## djyojoe (May 20, 2012)

I've personally bundled SO & SJ cord to a shielded balanced cable and have them work flawlessly.
Try out Gepco PA2 sometime for your self powered speakers. They just came out with this product a few months ago. I made two 125' cords using this product and I'm extremely pleased with it, except for the price.
Take a look on Markertek.

One of the nice things is the Power cord is also shielded.
The only thing for me is I would like the see the 14AWG power cord also be available in 12AWG. I do long cable runs. Just a preference of mine.


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## museav (May 20, 2012)

Shielding help with eletrical interference but does not protect against low frequency AC magnetic fields, that is one aspect where balanced, differential circuits combined with twisted pairs can help significantly. Even better, use twisted pair conductors for both the power and audio signals, thus reducing both the magnetic field emitted and the susceptibility to it.

Getting back to the original topic, Prodium Pro seems to offer both powered and unpowered mains as well as 10", 12" and 15" subwoofer drivers, but the the only subwoofer boxes and the only 18" driver product they seem to offer is a powered subwoofer box.

I'm guessing he has a limited budget, which is common, but also common is getting so spending everything you have on gear that won't do the job or is unreliable. It usually makes little sense to try to put a system together based solely on a budget unless that budget just happens to be realistic for the application, so it usually helps in terms of recommending what to do or any alternatives, to identify the intended use, the budget, the goals/expectations and so on. For example, what kind of bands and inputs/sources might need to be supported? What size and type of venues? Is transportation, storage, etc. of the system a consideration?

I don't know what type of gigs he plans to do but how many times do the bands he works with actually need to provide their own system or is what they would provide better than what the venue or customer could provide? Might he be better to focus on some specific components such as microphones, maybe some processing, etc. that could be used in conjunction with house, production or rental systems and maybe later form the basis for a higher quality system if their needing to provide a system does become common?


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## McR (Apr 1, 2013)

Hi,I know this might be a bit late but,Buy them as many as you can afford,I've had mine for 3yrs ,running with Crown XTi 4000 ,Xover @ 100Hz. They easily outperform or are as good as any high cost sub out there,let alone the price range. Yamaha club,Yorkville 118's,Cerwin Vega,JBL,EV's .You name it these subs take a beating & put out tons of bottom end! For 400.00 a pair there is nothing that compares .Stay passive with your subs,if an amp goes out on the powered ver. your done.I always have a spare amp at the ready,so the show goes on! Like i said 3 yrs used daily pushing lots of power,i've had no problems at all!!! Oh yeah High pass at 30Hz & you should have no probs. Like you at the time i needed something cheap,boy was i surprised!!! .Cheers!


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## museav (Apr 1, 2013)

McR said:


> Hi,I know this might be a bit late but,Buy them as many as you can afford,I've had mine for 3yrs ,running with Crown XTi 4000 ,Xover @ 100Hz. They easily outperform or are as good as any high cost sub out there,let alone the price range. Yamaha club,Yorkville 118's,Cerwin Vega,JBL,EV's .You name it these subs take a beating & put out tons of bottom end! For 400.00 a pair there is nothing that compares .Stay passive with your subs,if an amp goes out on the powered ver. your done.I always have a spare amp at the ready,so the show goes on! Like i said 3 yrs used daily pushing lots of power,i've had no problems at all!!! Oh yeah High pass at 30Hz & you should have no probs. Like you at the time i needed something cheap,boy was i surprised!!! .Cheers!


According to the Podium Pro web site (Podium Pro Audio Home Page) I do not see any subwoofer boxes offered that you would run with a XTi amp. Based on that site they appear to offer 10", 12" and 15" LF drivers or 15" and 18" powered subwoofer boxes that seem to be intended to be part of a system with some unidentified satellite speakers, but no unpowered subwoofer boxes.

Many of the product specs, such as a Sensitivity for powered speakers, are questionable or incomplete. And the only dealer for their products seems to be onlyfactorydirect.com.

The Podium Pro Audio web site provides no phone number, e-mail or address but does list the company as "Podium Pro Audio, Inc." located in Seattle, WA. However, a search of the Corporations database for the State of Washington seems to yield no such registered corporation. The web site also lists them as a member of CEA yet they do not appear in CEA's member directory.

So while I have not heard any Podium Pro products, there seem to be a lot of red flags that would keep me looking elsewhere.


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## McR (Apr 2, 2013)

Hi look on ( onlyfactorydirect) The sub is PP118 ,475.00 for the pair! 600 W RMS,no crossover.Only down side is they weigh 115 lbs. I run them with a Crown XTi 4000 in bridge mode 3200 W for the pair. They have NO PROBLEM taking the power.If used outside raise the hi pass to 40 Hz.Only Factory Direct has a great rep and will refund or replace anything they sell no problem,even pay return shipping !!! I would not purchase many of the other speakers there ,but i took a chance on these subs & they are as good or better than most in the 600-800 dollar per sub price range & for a pair for 475.00 you can't beat it! Like i said you can return them at no cost to you! Try them you'll love counting the money you saved.


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## McR (Apr 2, 2013)

Sorry they are PP Sub18 look under pro audio - passive subs @ onlyfactorydirect.


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## museav (Apr 3, 2013)

McR said:


> Only Factory Direct has a great rep and will refund or replace anything they sell no problem,even pay return shipping !!! I would not purchase many of the other speakers there ,but i took a chance on these subs & they are as good or better than most in the 600-800 dollar per sub price range & for a pair for 475.00 you can't beat it! Like i said you can return them at no cost to you! Try them you'll love counting the money you saved.


That may be their refund policy but some of the reviews I read indicate that once you are into the warranty period things aren't so nice with people experiencing failures apparently being told they have to pay for return shipping then getting them back still not working but being told they could find nothing wrong, being sent parts to repair them themselves (and thereby violating the terms for any subsequent warranty coverage), no way to contact the manufacturer, etc.


McR said:


> Sorry they are PP Sub18 look under pro audio - passive subs @ onlyfactorydirect.


Like I said, no practical experience with their products but I always go by the manufacturer's information when possible and I did manage to find a "18" Concert Subwoofer" on Podium Pro's web site (Podium Pro Audio Subwoofer page / Pro Audio replacement, raw, woofers, and drivers) that seems to be the same product you are referencing. As far as specifications, they list a 500W "RMS" power handling and 1,200W "Peak Program" power handling but I have no idea what "Peak Program" represents as based on the 500W value it seems to represent neither Peak not Program ratings as they are typically defined. The stated 128dB SPL maximum output indicates that either the actual power handling is just 316W peak and 79W continuous or the sensitivity is actually 95dB to 97dB rather than the claimed 103dB. They claim a 20Hz to 3kHz response but that has little meaning since there are no limits noted or actual response data provided. I could go on but the basic point is that the specs are pretty useless and there seems to be no way to audition any of the Podium Pro speakers without purchasing them. Maybe some of their products are a good value but there seems to be nothing "pro" about the products or the manufacturer other than the name.


On your setup, the XTi4000 is rated at 3,200W into 4 Ohms in bridge mono mode but that is at 1kHz with 1% THD, so maybe more realistically around 2,700W or 2,800W for sub duty or 1,350W to 1,400W per speaker. However, that is the full rated output and in actual use you may be running at much lower outputs than you think.


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## McR (Apr 3, 2013)

Hope I'm in the right thread as i am new here,so here goes.I am using EAW FR 159 for tops & PPsub18's .I just got a pair of EAW sb150's & would like to use them for low mid's .I was thinking of crossing over the 18's @ 90hz with hi pass of 30hz & the 15's @ 90hz to 150hz & letting the tops handle 150hz on up. I have never done this before so i have no idea if i will run into any problems?The Tops & sub compliment each other nicely xover @ 100hz (surprise!!! since the subs are fairly cheap) I am looking for a little more snap on the kick & thought the 15's would provide it. Any help would be welcomed.Thanks


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## McR (Apr 3, 2013)

Yep i know what you mean,i bought them because i needed something cheap at the time,but after 3yrs of use & expecting them to fry at any moment because i push them hard,i still am surprised,they keep up with the EAW's & thats all i needed at the time.I even bought a pair of B&C replacement subs but have not needed to install them. Maybe i got lucky? I mostly work in 200-300 seat rooms & when the venue is bigger i use them for side fills. Thanks


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## McR (Apr 3, 2013)

I agree,there is nothing worse than loosing a sub because the amp cut out. You are done,with no fix available ,unless you carry extra subs with you.I prefer to carry an extra amp,i have 2 Crown XTi 2000 & 2 Xti 4000's & i can easily carry the rack of amps alone. The days of heavy amps is over . Much easier & lighter than Powered with a case of extension cords.I like a clean stage & extension cords all over the place is not it. Plus how many Furman power supplies you have to get.I had a full active Mackie PA & got fed up with amp problems & it was usually blamed on the power at the venue,so i went back to amps.I have had no problems since.


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