# Tours, Yellow Card vs. Union vs. Non-Union



## JCarroll

OK I'm kinda confused about how all of this works regarding Union and such Tours. I currently work for a production house, and have done a couple Union calls. Do you have to be a current member of a union to go out on a Union tour or do they enroll you in their own local? The second part of this is if you've done a Union or Yellow Card tour does that disqualify you from doing any further Non-Union tours?

Thanks for any assistance you may provide...


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## Erik456

Hey Josh,
This will be the quick answer for ya since I'm mid show. 

To be on a Union Yellow Card show you must carry a local union card, a road card, and a 'pink contract'. A local card may either be from a home local (mine is 635-Winston Salem, NC) or ACT. ACT is basically a local for roadies with no home local for whatever reason. To get your road card, you simply ask as your local. You must pay all 4 quarters of dues at one time to get it. The 'pink contract' is from whatever company you work for (Ie: NETworks, Phoenix, ect...) Thia contract is between your producer and IATSE. It states your pay, benefits, and contract clauses.


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## porkchop

There are some companies that have agreements with local unions and if they where to hire you they would help you join the local they have an agreement with. It might be far away from where you actually live, but it is a local and a traveling card.
As far as your second question that is a VERY touchy subject. There are certainly plenty of union members that would tell you that once you go union you should never even think of working a non-union gig as your qualified labor only brings up the expectations of people looking to hire non-union labor. On the other hand if you're way down on a call list and your union dues are barely paying for themselves in terms of calls worked, then it's hard to justify not taking available non-union calls. Where a person falls often depends on where the money is coming in from and what other money is available.


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## themuzicman

JCarroll said:


> OK I'm kinda confused about how all of this works regarding Union and such Tours. I currently work for a production house, and have done a couple Union calls. Do you have to be a current member of a union to go out on a Union tour or do they enroll you in their own local? The second part of this is if you've done a Union or Yellow Card tour does that disqualify you from doing any further Non-Union tours?
> 
> Thanks for any assistance you may provide...



Nope, you don't have to be a union member - the producer can help get you an ACT card, as explained before it's a card for those with no local. It's administered by IA national, it has higher dues than most other cards but you don't pay working dues to a local (a set % of your pay that you have to pay to your local). To get better tours it does help to already have your card. 

A Yellow-Card show by nature is a union show. And no, it does not disqualify you from any non-union work. You can go wherever you like, as long as you keep paying your union dues you'll be good.


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## JCarroll

So has anyone here toured with Feld? I have a couple questions if you would be willing to PM me...


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## Footer

JCarroll said:


> So has anyone here toured with Feld? I have a couple questions if you would be willing to PM me...



One of my former employees is out with Ringling and has been for a decent amount of time. Send me your questions and I will pass them on. He also toured with Big Apple so he knows the circus world pretty well.


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## techieman33

Which part of feld are you asking about? The circus arm is run differently from the rest of the shows.


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## JCarroll

Starting with the circus leg, is it possible to transfer within the company to a different tour, like one of the Disney on Ice tours? Or once you're in you're stuck on that one tour until you leave...


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## themuzicman

JCarroll said:


> So has anyone here toured with Feld? I have a couple questions if you would be willing to PM me...



I have been offered a Feld contract on two separate occasions for ice shows...PM me if you want to know more - unfortunately the bulk of my experiences with them on the business end have been very poor.


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## Footer

This is a response from a few of JCarroll's questions from a guy who is out with the circus. 


> As for the questions, I wouldnt mind answering them at all and I'll try to be as helpful as needed.
> 
> The only Feld Entertainment shows that use trains are the Red and Blue tours of the Ringling Bros and Barnum and Bailey Circus. Those are the three ring circuses, the biggest and most extravagant of the three circus tour. There is also the gold show which plays smaller venues and is considered a one ring show. The Gold Show people fly or drive to their next venues and stay in hotels unlike the larger shows.
> 
> That said the train rooms themselves are not bad especially if this person has ever done any kind of intern work or Summer stock theatre or the like. Its about 8 X 8, they make everything into storage in your room and include a built in sink, fridge with freezer, microwave and in many cars, a stove top as well as a closet and twin size bed. Each car has its own set of showers and toilets and AC and heat. Its a dollar a day rent. You also get to see some incredible parts of the country on jumps.
> 
> Certain members of the tech crews like riggers, electricians, etc. will take turns going on a pre rig to unload semis, set up front of house, etc. the day before a load in. They travel by van ahead of time and stay in hotels. The hotels they put us up in are taken care of entirely by the job including things like gyms, breakfast, etc. there is a per diem every day you stay in a hotel and they will pay on stops for really long jumps and you will get paid extra for doing pre rig itself. Also the hotels are often top notch, we're talking the Millennium Hotel in LA nice.
> 
> I can only attest to the Management of the Blue show and the people I met sparingly at the HQ in Florida, but they are overall a pretty good crew on the technical end of things, especially those involved with electrics, sound, pyro, video, etc. On the other hand the management of the tour itself and the other departments can be good or bad though that is changing. I say that because the Feld's have been cleaning house and getting rid of money wasters, problem makers, excess positions and the like.
> 
> All that said the people at the Blue show are all great to work with that have been brought in. The Blue Tour is the best of the best right now of all the Ringling Shows, its the got the best actual show and the crew is really shaping up as a lot of bad eggs have been forced out, fired, or left after their cohorts departed.
> 
> Bringing up advancement, well now is the perfect opportunity in my opinion. With the shake ups, most crews currently need people. Off the top of my head sound just lost a guy for several months to a messed up knee, our props and set department have lost or are losing several people, our electrics crew will soon be looking for a new person when our pyro girl leaves in about a month and several management positions including things like assistant general manager are opening up or currently open. Tell him to check the Feld Entertainment website or try out the Ringling website itself, even backstagejobs often has postings with specifics. Also the Red Show is teching and rehearsing its new tour this november through january and will be taking on a lot of new people as old ones move on.
> 
> As to moving onto other shows it happens all the time the circus especially trade between themselves when needed. I know several people who have already moved to the ice shows or come to the circus when one or the other is on break or the like. Once you get settled and start to know people it becomes much easier. I myself may move to an ice show eventually, those go all over the globe. That and they're IATSE, the circus is Teamsters but it works, I've got some excellent benefits and great pay especially considering my dollar a day rent and no car and other expenses.
> 
> Feld Entertainment also does things like Motocross, Monsters Jam, etc. so they've got their fingers in a lot of pies.
> 
> Its a lot but I hope it helps them out in figuring out what they want to do. If they have any more questions or what not, feel free to ask!


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## Blake

Hey I know this is an older thread but I am really interested in becoming a roadie. The idea of having no tie-downs and limited expenses is very attractive! I am a HS sophomore. Any advice from roadies present or past? Is college nesecary or even useful? Just any information you can give me would be helpful!


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## DuckJordan

What have you done professionally, not in school and for pay?


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## Blake

Nothing for pay just a little community theatre and I work my local Mega-Church.


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## DuckJordan

Touring is very different than local produced shows. Find a road house or production company and work for money. Volenteer or internships don't mean a lot to road guys. Sure you know how that place does it the way they do but why? Get some pro experience under your belt. And don't burn bridges, there is a thread floating around, its called http://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Collaborative+Articles:Getting+a+Job+in+the+Industry its got some great resources and a lot of knowledge from road guys and road house guys (and gals we do have a fairly strong female presence)


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## derekleffew

Blake said:


> Hey I know this is an older thread but I am really interested in becoming a roadie. ...


Start by erasing the term "roadie" from your vocabulary. To many, it's just an older techie who tours. It can mean anything, but is usually thought of as "guitar tech"/"drum tech"/etc. or backline guy/drug connection. If you want to be a "Touring Lighting Technician", that's a whole different thing. Also, many in the industry consider "roadies" to be even lower than "carnies". God help the circus roadie.
"How do you get a roadie off your porch?" Pay him for the pizza.
"What's the difference between a roadie and a hobo?" A laminate.
"What do you call a roadie in a suit?" The defendant.
"What's the difference between a roadie and a homeless person?" Trick question--There IS no difference./A roadie IS a homeless person.
And so on.


Blake said:


> ...The idea of having no tie-downs and limited expenses is very attractive! ...


Where will you have your mail sent (provided the USPS is still in business)? No one tours 52 weeks a year. What will you do in between? Where will you live when you're "off"--Your parents' basement? Your girlfriend's couch? Want to come home from tour and find your wife, kids, and all your stuff, gone? Will you enjoy living on a bus with 12 other guys, with limited access to bathing and laundry facilities, and sleeping in a 2' x3' x6' bunk? 

Eating flatmeat that's been sitting out for much too long for every meal? I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, (and apologies for the subject matter) but one of our members, after just a short time on his first tour, stated, "For the first time in my life, I've had to pay attention as to what and when I ate, and how that would affect my next bowel movement." {NO #2 ON THE BUS, EVER!} Just another thing to think about. 

Read the "Getting a job..." link posted above.  How much do you hate your parents? Read the stories on Roadie.net . See also http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...article-getting-into-backstage-work-arts.html , and the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/off-topic/30408-warped-roadies.html .

Yes, I'm tarring with a broad brush, but you asked a vague question.
.


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## soundman

The best way to get on the road is to be the best at what you choose to do. Don't complain and work well with others and you will have more work than you know what to do with. 

If you learn well with structure college might be the path for you. If not no one will bat an eye if you don't have a college degree. I have been on buses where everyone has a degree and I have worked on projects where I am the only person with a degree. It is not something that really comes up.


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## museav

porkchop said:


> As far as your second question that is a VERY touchy subject. There are certainly plenty of union members that would tell you that once you go union you should never even think of working a non-union gig as your qualified labor only brings up the expectations of people looking to hire non-union labor.


That is an overgeneralization, whether a union member or crew or a non-union individual or crew, in both cases the qualifications and results really depend on the individuals involved. 


porkchop said:


> On the other hand if you're way down on a call list and your union dues are barely paying for themselves in terms of calls worked, then it's hard to justify not taking available non-union calls. Where a person falls often depends on where the money is coming in from and what other money is available.


In some cases this also appears to apply to some of the Unions themselves and it sometimes seems to be more about getting and keeping dues paying members than it is about the quality of the people or results. When times are tough and the halls are full can be completely different than when work is plentiful and the halls are empty. I know of multiple examples during tough economic times where Unions claimed authority over areas of work that aren't really theirs or where they forced companies to use totally unqualified union labor or to pay for union labor with no relevant experience to 'oversee' work.

In general, I think it may be important to differentiate between IATSE and Unions in general. Over the years I've been a member of, worked with or encountered not only IATSE but also IBEW, Teamsters, UAW, UA, SMWIA and numerous other Unions. I've seen some that really focus on training and bettering one's self. I've also run across Unions that seemed to benefit primarily those less experienced and qualified (it was interesting to watch a shop voting for Union membership where talking to people there indicated that the more experienced and more qualified people felt they would end up worse off and were against membership while the lesser the experience and qualifications the more people seemed to potentially benefit and thus be for membership). I've found inexperienced union members receiving no training from the Union and having to rely on training they receive from non-union individuals. I've experienced Union membership relate to absolutely nothing other than a larger paycheck, with much of that difference then going back to the Union in the form of dues. And I've even seen union members try to physically prevent non-union members or companies from coming on a site or to even intentionally disrupt or sabotage the work of non-union members. 

Anyways, the point is that we probably want to distinguish where any comments address IATSE in particular versus Unions in general.


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## len

I've only done touring with musical acts, but from reading about theatrical and circus touring it all seems to have its positives and negatives. I've been on some horrible music tours, and some great ones. I'll bet the rest of the industry is similar. The thing I liked about it was the simplicity of the life. You get up, you work on ONE thing (getting the show up), you eat, do the show, strike and go to bed. 

To get into music the best way is to work in a production house, like PRG, Upstaging, Bandit, Christie, etc. You'll spend a year or three working in the shop, doing a lot of grunt work. If you're lucky and good, they may recruit you for a tour. The music industry makes most money from touring, since no one buys music any longer, so the A list acts are bigger than ever in terms of tour size. But you still have to know your stuff backwards and forwards because there's limited space on the bus and they aren't out there for charity.


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## xander

museav said:


> Anyways, the point is that we probably want to distinguish where any comments address IATSE in particular versus Unions in general.



You should also know that it completely depends on the local within IATSE as well. Every local has an autonomous governing body, so rules and customs can vary greatly.

-Tim


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## museav

xander said:


> You should also know that it completely depends on the local within IATSE as well. Every local has an autonomous governing body, so rules and customs can vary greatly.


Also very true for other Unions and even some local chapters of trade associations as well. For example, how AVL Contractor here work and interact with IBEW members is very different than it is in some other areas of the country.


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