# Oh why knot?



## derekleffew

As always, s*tudents only*, for one week, please.

Tie-line on an XLR cable (in this case, an intercom cable), but it's used by some on just about every type of cable.
What's this knot called? How does one tie it? And what are the advantages/disadvantages?




It's deceptively simple.


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## Amiers

Looks like a double clove hitch from the back. I've tied em so many times I don't think I could explain it without using my hands. Advantages easy to tie disadvantages pita to take apart after years of it being tied.


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## techieman33

Amiers said:


> disadvantages pita to take apart after years of it being tied.



I see that as an advantage. Keeps the new stagehands from doing to much damage when they think they need to remove ALL of the tie line. I can't even count the number of times I've had to stop people from removing them, or had them walk up to ask me if there was an easier way to get them off. At least with it being hard to undo we can usually catch them before they remove to many.


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## Amiers

For a long term knot yes it is an advantage I spose, but for the one off times you need to tie something off I would see it as a disadvantage because most of the times it requires a flat head and gloves because if you miss you are slicing fingers and swearing up a storm lol. Most of the times when I did use tie line it was an expendable so saved fingers by just knifing it.


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## StradivariusBone

If it's a clove hitch derivative, (and near the end of the cable it's attached to) the quick and easy way is to put two loops/half-hitches, cross them, and slip it over the end. I don't know if that would work with this variety though. *goes to find bucket of tie line*


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## cmckeeman

Looks like a barrel knot to me, and the only benefit i can think of is it is less likely to come untied as compared to a clove or choke, but it take sup more tie-line and is a bulkier knot.


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## gafftaper

This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?


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## Amiers

I know it's not the right name but I call that a yo-yo knot, because that's how we used to fix the yo-yo string to our fingers. Oh the days before gameboys and iPhones.

gafftaper said:


> This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?


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## sk8rsdad

gafftaper said:


> This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?



That would be a Lark's Head (wiki: larks head). It's technically a hitch, not a knot.


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## cmckeeman

I prefer doing a clove then just a half knot with the tails to keep it from coming loose


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## Floobydust

I use a Knot app on my iPhone; lotsa different choices, depending on what you need.


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## DuckJordan

sk8rsdad said:


> That would be a Lark's Head (wiki: larks head). It's technically a hitch, not a knot.



More common up here in the farming states as a cows hitch.


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## danTt

gafftaper said:


> This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?



The problem I find with this knot is that it's too easy to pull the tielie off when you need a piece to tie up cable somewhere else. The nice thing about the initial knot is that you have to work so hard to remove the tielie that people usually give up and go find a new piece.


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## TuckerD

I would say that the first knot it a barrel knot. It is also commonly used for the safety knot in a climbing system. Here is one attached to my water bottle. The one on my water bottle has fewer wraps but is the same knot. The second picture is two of them tied against each other on a rope to make a loop. 


The second knot in this thread is a larks head, a similar knot with more wraps is called a prusik. To tie this I used the loop from picture two. The first picture is before the knot was tightened and the second is after I pulled on the loop. This knot is great because when under tension it doesn't slip but when loosened it is easy to move a long the line. I have used this knot to hang a 1/2" x 350' steel zip line cable on a high ropes course and also to relieve strain on cable connectors. 


When using this knot for strain relief I usually tie the prusik on the cable below the connector, then tie the prusik loop off on a baton or something else near by that can take the pressure. I could take a picture of this if anyone wants to see. Does anyone think it's a bad idea if I am working with power cables? What about other kinds of cable? Obviously cable pressure should be avoided but I figure pressure like this is better than pressure on the connectors.


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## cmckeeman

TuckerD said:


> The second picture is two of them tied against each other on a rope to make a loop.
> 
> Does anyone think it's a bad idea if I am working with power cables? What about other kinds of cable? Obviously cable pressure should be avoided but I figure pressure like this is better than pressure on the connectors.


When you tie them to make a loop or join two ropes it becomes the double fisherman's and unless if it is somehow destroying the shielding on the cable i see no issue, you can't crimp power only cut wires


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## TuckerD

Thanks, now I can put a name on that. Wooot


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## danTt

I tend to use a rolling hitch (Rolling hitch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for anything requiring vertical strain relief. It's close enough to a clove hitch to be easy to teach, and holds much better when being pulled perpendicular to the object tied around.


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## TuckerD

Hmm. I haven't seen that before. Do you mean perpendicular or parallel? 

That is a nice knot though, one I will definitely play with. I like the prusik because it gives you a loop to clip / tie on to and I have done some pretty cool things with it.


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## danTt

Parallel, actually. Perpendicular to the knot, I guess is what I was trying to say.


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## derekleffew

TuckerD said:


> I would say that the first knot it a barrel knot. ...


What's pictured in post#1 is not a true barrel knot, as it's tied in the middle of the rope, not with the ends. But adding "barrel" to googling leads perhaps to the best representation: barrel bead knot, most commonly used in macrame and creating rosary. 
http://www.free-macrame-patterns.com/barrel-knot.html :


Seems a good knot for permanently affixing tieline that will always live on a cable. Visually a little cleaner than a square knot, or a clove hitch finished with a half-hitch. As said above, difficult to untie, so encourages the miscreant to give up and find a more easily accessible piece of string. 

The lark's head is a great knot, and I use it all the time, but not in an instance like this. Plus, one needs to decide if one wants the cable to be suspended hanging UNDER the batten, or affixed to it, as with a clove surrounding both the pipe and cable.

Another thing I found while googling--a useful knot-tying accessory, a U-channel a few inches long. 
http://www.rosarymakersguide.org/cordwithknottedcenter.htm :

I'll have to look around and find something similar sized properly for #4 (1/8") cord (tie-line).



Front



Back


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## VCTMike

Constrictor Knot...


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## MikeJ

TuckerD said:


> I would say that the first knot it a barrel knot. It is also commonly used for the safety knot in a climbing system. Here is one attached to my water bottle. The one on my water bottle has fewer wraps but is the same knot. The second picture is two of them tied against each other on a rope to make a loop.View attachment 10677View attachment 10678
> 
> 
> The second knot in this thread is a larks head, a similar knot with more wraps is called a prusik. To tie this I used the loop from picture two. The first picture is before the knot was tightened and the second is after I pulled on the loop. This knot is great because when under tension it doesn't slip but when loosened it is easy to move a long the line. I have used this knot to hang a 1/2" x 350' steel zip line cable on a high ropes course and also to relieve strain on cable connectors.View attachment 10679View attachment 10680
> 
> 
> When using this knot for strain relief I usually tie the prusik on the cable below the connector, then tie the prusik loop off on a baton or something else near by that can take the pressure. I could take a picture of this if anyone wants to see. Does anyone think it's a bad idea if I am working with power cables? What about other kinds of cable? Obviously cable pressure should be avoided but I figure pressure like this is better than pressure on the connectors.



If you do use the double fishermans knot to tie a prusik or a cordelette, PLEASE leave a decent tail. This knot does slip a little as it tightens, especially with tech cords. It is a very efficient knot, though. alternative, Webbing has a lot of similar uses too even in theater/entertainment for strain reliefs and such, but only tie water knots in webbing.


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## jhochb

Good Morning All

i find this site yery interesting
I go there with a lenth of rope & practice

Animated Knots by Grog | How to Tie Knots | Fishing, Boating, Climbing, Scouting, Search and Rescue, Household, Decorative, Rope Care,

have fun
be careful
ask questions


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## afreeradical

This is what I call a proper cable tie

You Must start with a piece of Cotton Twill ( Have tried many types of cord, rope, synthetic twill ect..... )

Tie a clove hitch and finish with a half hitch

In the heat of Hang and Focus,
If I can remove it or slide it
I or someone else will.
If you do it to 1 you'll do it to another
AND You WON'T have time to fix it on the OUT like you told yourself you would.
Then it will cost you time and money on the Next IN....

The cotton twill is a little bit more expensive but it's more durable, washable and softer on the hands which is very important when cabling for days at a time....

(sorry pic's uploaded so big.. I resized on phone and said was 240x480 but obviously they not )


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## kwithnok

gafftaper said:


> This would be Gaff's prefered knott for Cable. Super fast and easy to tie, easy to move along the cable, but still has some decent holding power when tight. What's it called?


i believe its called a cow hitch


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## gafftaper

kwithnok said:


> i believe its called a cow hitch


Interesting I haven't heard that one. As was mentioned above, I know it as a Lark's Head. I wonder if that's some sort of regional slang.


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## derekleffew

Here's a theory: if the knot is made by making a bight, passing over the pipe, then pulling the ends thru, it's a larks head. If it's made with a free end, it's a cow hitch (see Grog's Animated Knots). Wikipedia indicates that cow hitch came first, but I'd never heard it called that until today.


Sent from my iPad5 using Tapatalk


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## kwithnok

i just rember seeing it in a knot book i have.


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## cmckeeman

derekleffew said:


> Here's a theory: if the knot is made by making a bight, passing over the pipe, then pulling the ends thru, it's a larks head. If it's made with a free end, it's a cow hitch (see Grog's Animated Knots). Wikipedia indicates that cow hitch came first, but I'd never heard it called that until today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad5 using Tapatalk


And if it is done with webbing it then turns into a girth hitch, And if you pass it through two more times it then becomes a prussik...


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## derekleffew

Latest evolution of the film industry's "sash cord knot covered with friction tape":





This was on a 50' cable of 12/3 SJOOW with 5-15 ends. Interestingly, near each end was a shop-made label stating

> Warning:
> 1. Do not use while coiled.
> 2. Do not use when submersed or wet.
> 3. Maximum rating is 15 amps.



SJO stinger (extension cord) for use on a stage or studio?

I've seen "cable bullets" on 4/0 feeder and Socapex before, but never ones small enough for SJO.


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