# Need assitance determining new soundboard purchase for High School Theater.



## jddgg22 (Aug 24, 2012)

Hello everyone,
I am looking at purchasing a new soundboard for my high school theater program, but have a few problems, questions, and concerns before I do. Now I realize that there have been posts in the past about this, but many of them are years old and I wanted a fresh opinion.

First off, I am concerned that I don't have nearly enough training in the audio field to truly be making these purchasing decisions, which is I am posting here.

Second, I don’t really know exactly what I am trying to accomplish through this purchase, I just know that my director has decided that our sound quality isn’t up to par with her standards and I feel as though there is bound to be a board out there with the capabilities to fix many of these aspects.
So, to put everything into perspective.

We currently own a 36 channel analog board with no real bells and whistles. On average our productions run about 16-24 lavs, 3 hanging mics (which I cannot get to work well for the life of me) and typically a small band set up (two keyboards, one drum set, two or three guitars and the random trumpet or brass instrument). During our last show we added a small five channel side console to accommodate for the band and mixed is separately.

Our main problems (which I am hoping to solve through this purchase) were as follows:
The ability of the high school students to control all 24 microphones and the hanging mics all at the same time was daunting to say the very least. Even with two board ops and a que caller we still had lines that weren’t mic’d until half way through. I feel as though mute groups would fix this. I have heard that they are very similar to the cues found in our lighting boards.

Second, our actual sound queing system is a single dell computer with iTunes hooked up to the board. I know there has to be some better way to do this, and I don’t know why someone wouldn’t have integrated it into a digital board yet.

Third; though we have already spent a couple of thousand dollars to get compressors for about 8 of our microphones, having compression and gates on each of the microphones would be a tremendous help! I figure by the time we purchased enough to accommodate for the highly sporadic and unexpected actions of a high school actor / actress that we will have spent enough to buy ourselves a new board that could do it for us.

I don’t know if there is a high end analog that provides all of these capabilities, or if it is about time I moved into the digital board age. I have enough resources around my school in Colorado that I am sure I could find someone to offer myself and my students official training, I just need to figure out what sort of board to get! Though our maximum budget is about $17,000 I would really like to spend less than that. We still have a lot of microphones that need purchasing (as we have been renting at least 8 every show for the past two years), some new power and signal distributors, as well as some new hanging mics, seeing that our work very very poorly…

Though this could potentially be a whole different post! Does any want to fill me in as to what a “boundary” or “border” mic is? And does anyone have any good tips for proper placement of overhead mics for maximum efficiency (or simply suggestions for a good brand of a new over head mic.) We are having a lot of troubles getting good sound from our chorus even when our lav’s are working well!

Thanks for all your help!


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## tk2k (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi there,

There's a lot of high schools going through this same sort of an issue right now, hopefully I can give you some things that will improve your sound quality without costing anything, and a few things that will cost you. 

First off: What equipment are you using? How big is your theater? What kind of shows do you do in an average season? 

First off, knowing your current gear is important. Sound quality is determined by microphone, console, amplifiers, and finally speakers. Once you get above a fairly basic sound console, the difference in sound quality is not going to be as influential and speakers and microphones. Many lavs are designed for spoken word projection, and may not have a fantastic sound for vocals or musical performance. Obviously replacing all your lavs is outside of your budget, but realizing this limitation and focusing on mic placement will help improve your pickup and thus final sound quality. Additionally, how much equalizing do you do for individual lavs? My suggestion would be to sit down with one of the lav mics, and your average male or female cast member, and get a good EQ that works. A proper EQ will reject unwanted noise while enhancing the clarity of the subject. What models of lavs do you currently use? Is it wireless? 

Speakers also make a difference, although not always as much as you'd think. What do you currently have? 


Console: So 17k is not a huge budget, but it's very much manageable. If you are looking for compressors and EQs on every channel, you are looking at digital console territory. The pros of digital consoles are tons of onboard dynamics processing, whereas the downsides tend to be 'direct access', meaning you cannot see every channel at the same time. This can be solved with DCAs, mute groups, or scenes, all of which can be programmed into the console. 

From the sound of it, if you can make do with 32 channels, a Yamaha LS9 might be perfect for what you plan on doing, and will very easily fit within your budget. You can program mute groups, scenes, etc into the console. 
Another great option would be an Allen and Heath GLD system, which can support up to 44 mics. 

In terms of analogue consoles, a Midas Verona comes to mind as something that supports mute groups, etc. But you won't get compressors on each channel. For that, you must go digital. 

In terms of sound cueing software, get your IT department to give you a mac (almost any mac will do) and run Qlab off of it. Industry standard, free for stereo channels of audio. Runs on any mac up to about 6 years old.


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## cpf (Aug 24, 2012)

The soundcraft Si Compact 32 would fit in your budget range, and is less of a learning curve for the analog/digital transition than some others. Not the cheapest option, but you do get what you pay for in terms of quality (although their firmware situation has been a little rocky since the start).

If a Mac is unavailable, there are a number of free windows sound cue applications, eg Multiplay, that would be leaps and bounds beyond iTunes. Of course, I'm a QLab man myself, so I'd still recommend going that route if possible. 

As for integration of playback into your board: stick to cueing one system from another - no need to put all your eggs in one basket. With most any digital board it'll be possible to set your sound playback system to recall cues on the sound board automatically, or the other way around, with a simple MIDI connection.


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## jddgg22 (Aug 24, 2012)

tk2k,
We have a 46' wide 36' deep proscenium stage and we typically produce two plays, two musicals, and about five or six minor show per season.
As far as the mic's go, we have 14 Wireless Shure mics varying in make and model, but mostly SLX's. Without checking (which I will tomorr.ow) I believe we have mostly SM93's. We usually work on placing these on the bottom of the cheek bone during placement. Perhaps this is wrong, but it is what I had been taught in college! We used to have a lot of over the ear elements, but the students destroyed them with what seemed like intentional malice (though they all claimed they followed each of the rules set forth to stop them from being damaged.)

I can get you the rest of the specs on the board, the speakers, the amps, and other such specs tomorrow.

Our EQ is usually preset during our mic checks each night, though other than the levels it is usually fairly consistent between the runs. It is when the actors decide to not project during mic checks, randomly increase their projection in areas that they didn't before, or just stop projecting at all (most common) when we run into a lot of issues.

The mac I wish were an option, our IT department has apparently developed some unwarranted (at least to my knowledge) grudge against our department and insists on answer any request made for technology (including macs) with "Buy it with your own department money!" which honestly, would probably not be a bad investment based upon their tenacious vengeance against our department.

We had a lot of troubles with mics cutting out last year, but I am hoping to remedy that by lowering the mixing console permanently into the house, putting all of our mix receivers into road boxes and equipping each of them with a signal distributor to try and keep things in order. I have been told that if I have more than one distributor I actually need to hook each distributor into a distributor... though this was by a student, so I am still needing to check out that whole can of worms.

I will look into the boards that you have suggested!

Thanks for all of your help!


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## museav (Aug 24, 2012)

jddgg22 said:


> Our main problems (which I am hoping to solve through this purchase) were as follows:
> The ability of the high school students to control all 24 microphones and the hanging mics all at the same time was daunting to say the very least. Even with two board ops and a que caller we still had lines that weren’t mic’d until half way through. I feel as though mute groups would fix this. I have heard that they are very similar to the cues found in our lighting boards.


Mute groups are a bit different as they simply combine multiple channel mutes together, but most digital consoles support much greater scene functionality than just mute groups.

However, I'm going to go in a bit different direction here and suggest that you not necessarily look just to equipment to resolve this problem. Training, preparation and planning can be a much more effective solution than relying on hardware solutions. A digital console may help in terms of scenes, DCAs, mute groups, etc. but you have to understand how to use those in the first place in order to apply them effectively. There may be some creative ways to use Groups and other capabilities on your current console to resolve your problems and I much prefer to approach things as "what can I do to make it work with what I have" before moving right on to looking at gear as the solution, that tends to benefit everyone even if you do replace the equipment.


jddgg22 said:


> Second, our actual sound queing system is a single dell computer with iTunes hooked up to the board. I know there has to be some better way to do this, and I don’t know why someone wouldn’t have integrated it into a digital board yet.


Integrate a playback source and timeline cueing? Some digital consoles do have USB or FireWire connectivity and a few allow playback direct from a thumb drive or similar, but theatre use is actually a pretty limited portion of the market for entry level consoles and manufacturers probably avoid including functions that would add to the product cost while only benefiting a small percentage of the potential market.


jddgg22 said:


> Third; though we have already spent a couple of thousand dollars to get compressors for about 8 of our microphones, having compression and gates on each of the microphones would be a tremendous help! I figure by the time we purchased enough to accommodate for the highly sporadic and unexpected actions of a high school actor / actress that we will have spent enough to buy ourselves a new board that could do it for us.


You are right that digital consoles are a cost effective way to get significant signal processing, but having that processing does not mean it always needs to be or should be used. It's great to have the tools but even better to know how and when to use them.


jddgg22 said:


> I don’t know if there is a high end analog that provides all of these capabilities, or if it is about time I moved into the digital board age. I have enough resources around my school in Colorado that I am sure I could find someone to offer myself and my students official training, I just need to figure out what sort of board to get! Though our maximum budget is about $17,000 I would really like to spend less than that. We still have a lot of microphones that need purchasing (as we have been renting at least 8 every show for the past two years), some new power and signal distributors, as well as some new hanging mics, seeing that our work very very poorly…


Whether you stay analog or go digital for the mixer, it sounds like you and the students could benefit greatly from getting someone with directly relevant knowledge and experience involved. And sometimes spending money on training and educational resources is a better investment than spending it on equipment.


jddgg22 said:


> Though this could potentially be a whole different post! Does any want to fill me in as to what a “boundary” or “border” mic is? And does anyone have any good tips for proper placement of overhead mics for maximum efficiency (or simply suggestions for a good brand of a new over head mic.) We are having a lot of troubles getting good sound from our chorus even when our lav’s are working well!


These are boundary or footlight mics, http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/mics/101062.pdf and Bartlett Microphones floor mics and instrument mics - stage floor mics.

Placement of overhead microphones depends on the microphones and the application, but if you do some searching there are resources such as http://www.crownaudio.com/media/pdf/mics/128114.pdf, Shure Americas | How-To | How to Mic a Choir, http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_mics_for_music_sound_ea.pdf, http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_audiomusiceducators_ea.pdf, http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_al1532_theater_guide_ea.pdf and Audio-Technica - Microphones, headphones, wireless microphone systems, noise-cancelling headphones & more : Specific Applications.


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## tk2k (Aug 24, 2012)

jddgg22 said:


> I believe we have mostly SM93's. We usually work on placing these on the bottom of the cheek bone during placement. Perhaps this is wrong, but it is what I had been taught in college!


The 93's are fine mics, but they are omnidirectional, meaning you have to be careful of phase cancelation when two actors are in close proximity, or, as is the case with a musical, when actors are loud, and their vocals can be picked up by the mic of the person next to them. This can create huge problems in terms of sound quality, as some stuff cancels out, some stuff stacks, and everything sounds 'muddy'. I would suggest as you go forwards with replacement you look into either more directional mics, or consider how many mics you have live at any one time.

jddgg22 said:


> We had a lot of troubles with mics cutting out last year, but I am hoping to remedy that by lowering the mixing console permanently into the house, putting all of our mix receivers into road boxes and equipping each of them with a signal distributor to try and keep things in order. I have been told that if I have more than one distributor I actually need to hook each distributor into a distributor... though this was by a student, so I am still needing to check out that whole can of worms.



Issues with mics cutting out can be frequency issues. If you go to Shure's website, you can download software called Wireless Workbench, which will allow you to input your location, and model of wireless gear, and band, and it will auto-calculate what frequencies you should use. Also, moving the wireless rack closer will help (maybe even backstage for shows, connected through a snake). 
Also, you can get antenna distros (Shure makes several models, and there are tons of aftermarkets too) that are active and can receive far better than the built in ones. You need to daisy chain from A to B to C etc but that's not too big of a task. 



In terms of console, the SI compact 32 is... fine. It's going to run you about $7k, which is in the territory of an LS9. Between them, I'd go with an LS9 anyday.


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## jonliles (Aug 24, 2012)

tk2k said:


> In terms of sound cueing software, get your IT department to give you a mac (almost any mac will do) and run Qlab off of it. Industry standard, free for stereo channels of audio. Runs on any mac up to about 6 years old.



I would disagree that "Qlab " is industry standard. There are lots of options out there. QLab is just one of many. Personally, I paid fot the professional liscense for SCS (Windows based) and it does all my video and audio effect cueing. Cueing programs are a manner or personal preference.

An important thing on choir mics, when singing, mute them out or reduce their gain drastically. During speaking dialog, mute them all together. Most folks don't take the time to ring them out to establish a solid gain structure and usually run into problems with feedback. Similarly with PZM's and other boundray mics. Establishing that gain before feedback is critical. 

There is a good chance there is nothing wrong with your board. Yes, some singers will need compression. If everyone is ranging their mics, drop your gain - chances are you'll be able to minimize your outboard processing. 

Are you mic'ing for singing? Or are you mic'ing for spoken lines? If it were me and I had a 17K school budget (provided by booster or donation or whatever), I would invest in more body packs and headsets and stop using the choir drops for musicals. Keep the choir mics for Orchestra & choral concerts, or for plays where individuals are not mic'd.

Look at what MuseAV is saying. His inputs are always solid. 

Just like running any other tech, practice, practice, practice. After that, Practice some more.


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## tk2k (Aug 24, 2012)

jonliles said:


> I would disagree that "Qlab " is industry standard. There are lots of options out there. QLab is just one of many. Personally, I paid fot the professional liscense for SCS (Windows based) and it does all my video and audio effect cueing. Cueing programs are a manner or personal preference.



For theater, it's pretty much the industry standard for playback or effects cuing. 

For SMC or Timecode sync it isn't but otherwise it kind of is...


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## museav (Aug 24, 2012)

jddgg22 said:


> We currently own a 36 channel analog board with no real bells and whistles. On average our productions run about 16-24 lavs, 3 hanging mics (which I cannot get to work well for the life of me) and typically a small band set up (two keyboards, one drum set, two or three guitars and the random trumpet or brass instrument). During our last show we added a small five channel side console to accommodate for the band and mixed is separately.




jddgg22 said:


> Though our maximum budget is about $17,000 I would really like to spend less than that. We still have a lot of microphones that need purchasing (as we have been renting at least 8 every show for the past two years), some new power and signal distributors, as well as some new hanging mics, seeing that our work very very poorly…




cpf said:


> The soundcraft Si Compact 32 would fit in your budget range, and is less of a learning curve for the analog/digital transition than some others. Not the cheapest option, but you do get what you pay for in terms of quality (although their firmware situation has been a little rocky since the start).


Depending on the drums and any handhelds for announcer, MC, etc., that looks like anywhere from maybe 30 to 40 mono and two stereo inputs. Add your QLab computer and any other sources and that seems like it could exceed the 32 mono and 4 stereo inputs of the Si Compact 32.

This is where it is often important to first sit down and determine what you need and want from the console. How many of what type of inputs? How many of what type of outputs? How many mix buses of what type are required? Are there any constraints on the size or physical connectivity? Do you require a mono mix or LCR panning for compatibility with the rest of your system? And so on.

Also consider that digital consoles are different than analog in that their architecture is often not nearly as fixed. By that I mean you may be able to have more physical inpouts than you can actually use at any one time and 'virtual patch' them within the console software. You may be able to expand the number of physical inputs and/or outputs via cards or remote interfaces. You may have some number of mix buses that can be configured via software as main mixes, aux sends, Groups, effects sends, etc. rather than having a fixed assignment. But due to that flexibility you sometimes have to approach digital consoles a bit differently than you might analog consoles.

But there are also potential advantages to some of those aspects. For example, you could consider a Allen & Heath GLD-80 based system and start with a basic 28 mic/line and 4 line level inputs by 22 outputs configuration, then at some point expand that up to a 36 mic/line and 4 line inputs by 26 outputs expanded system or even to the fully expanded 44 mic/line and 4 line inputs and 30 output system. And even the full expanded system would be several thousand dollars under your budget.


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## Aman121 (Aug 24, 2012)

Its been said already, but ill say it again. If sound quality is an issue, chances are that more drastic improvements can be made by upgrading speakers, amplifiers, or even just getting the system re-tuned. I could be wrong on this, but I believe that operator training will be much more effective than getting a new console. A monkey who doesent know how to use a mouse wont have anymore success running Windows 7 than he did running Windows 3.1. If you really want processing however, a new digital console is the way to go. You'll save tons on outboard gear and be able to implement cuing and all that fun stuff.


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## cpf (Aug 24, 2012)

Oh oops, I misread the channel count as much lower. Forge my Si recommendation


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## museav (Aug 24, 2012)

cpf said:


> Oh oops, I misread the channel count as much lower. Forge my Si recommendation


It sounds like the inputs may be about equal to what their current analog console, so it may work all of the time or at least most of the time. But that's is what is important to assess, if you're going to spend that kind of money then is that acceptable or would more inputs be on the priority list of requirements for a new console?

I also fully agree with everyone else that mic and speaker selection and application is generally a much more effective approach to feedback and similar issues. And I definitely agree that unless there is something wrong with your current console then the improvment in sound quality from a new console is likely to be incremental compared to what some other changes and tweaking might do.


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## TimmyP1955 (Aug 25, 2012)

If your computer is a PC, use Multiplay ( https://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/software/multiplay/index.php ). Works great, and it's free. (If you are running Vista, don't put the Multiplay folder in the Program Files folder.)


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## jddgg22 (Aug 31, 2012)

Hey everyone!
Thank you so much for the terrific feed back thus far. I am still working to get some more information regarding system specifications, but have also been looking at many of your suggestions for boards.

After looking closely at the a lot of the boards it seems that the M7CL seems to be a little bit more akin to its analog predecessor. I would imagine that the price tag would be more than the GLD-80 and the LS9, but with the easily accessible individual controls and a higher degree of simplicity (lack of digital manipulation) in the EQ it looks like it would provide the students with a convenient blend between analog and digital. What do you guys think? I know that it is a bit more excessive than some of the suggested consoles, but I would much rather purchase big and be able to upgrade around the console than purchase small and be restricted by its capabilities.

Now, to answer a couple of other questions...


> An important thing on choir mics, when singing, mute them out or reduce their gain drastically. During speaking dialog, mute them all together. Most folks don't take the time to ring them out to establish a solid gain structure and usually run into problems with feedback. Similarly with PZM's and other boundray mics. Establishing that gain before feedback is critical.



Perhaps I didn't represent our schools sound situations well enough. The infrastructure of the schools sound system is less than ideal. Though we have quality speakers and amps they have been installed without a lot of care as to their placement, however they are permanently fixed into the architecture of the building. Right now we have two mid and high freq sets on stage right and stage left shooting down at an angle towards the front 6 rows of seating. Our subs are set as a center cluster without any high or mid range speakers shooting out towards mid house. Due to the positioning of the high and mid range speakers it is hard to get a lot of amplification in the hanging mics (if we need to mic the chorus closer to the apron) without feed back. Granted, we have done a very good job of ringing everything out prior to performances and have actually rarely gotten feedback. The problem is that there is such a significant discrepancy between the levels that we can get from our body mics on our leads and the reinforcement we can supply our chorus. It is always awkward when a single persons voice is substantially louder than a chorus of 60, but our director isn't content with simply bringing the level back or out on the leads when they are singing with the chorus, she would rather somehow raise the chorus to the same level as the leads. Which I can't seem to do on my hanging mics without them creating feed back.


> There is a good chance there is nothing wrong with your board. Yes, some singers will need compression. If everyone is ranging their mics, drop your gain - chances are you'll be able to minimize your outboard processing.



We are pretty good at this, the board replacement is mostly for cue scenes and compression on every channel. Ranging the mics is a problem in high school though because of the inconsistency of the singers. The students not only move mic position during the show while doing costume changes, but they also don't usually sing to their fullest ranges during mic checks even when instructed to. Though I'd like to think that I have control over their use of the equipment and their levels, I would prefer to focus on what I know I can control, and that's the sound board and the sound processing.


> Are you mic'ing for singing? Or are you mic'ing for spoken lines? If it were me and I had a 17K school budget (provided by booster or donation or whatever), I would invest in more body packs and headsets and stop using the choir drops for musicals. Keep the choir mics for Orchestra & choral concerts, or for plays where individuals are not mic'd.



We are micing singing and speaking. We do a musical in the Spring and a straight show in the fall. We are at 14 body packs and I plan on upgrading to about 20 within the next year. The problem is, we cast appx 60 - 70 students, provide a single mic for almost every single lead (and usually secondary parts), but still can't get the desired sound from the chorus that the director wants without the overheads. I am thinking about purchasing some boundary mics, but in the past (six or seven years ago, so it's not the best reference) I remember that they had a very bad tendency of picking up foot steps and floor commotion. Still, with a tap musical this Spring they would probably be a good investment.


> Depending on the drums and any handhelds for announcer, MC, etc., that looks like anywhere from maybe 30 to 40 mono and two stereo inputs. Add your QLab computer and any other sources and that seems like it could exceed the 32 mono and 4 stereo inputs of the Si Compact 32.



Moving to a different post. Yes, during out last musical we filled our 32 channel and ended up adding a second 8 channel board to mix our band.


> The 93's are fine mics, but they are omnidirectional, meaning you have to be careful of phase cancelation when two actors are in close proximity, or, as is the case with a musical, when actors are loud, and their vocals can be picked up by the mic of the person next to them. This can create huge problems in terms of sound quality, as some stuff cancels out, some stuff stacks, and everything sounds 'muddy'. I would suggest as you go forwards with replacement you look into either more directional mics, or consider how many mics you have live at any one time.



Thanks for the heads up on this! Do you have any suggestions? I am looking for something durable is the main issue. My students are very good at damaging over ear elements.


> Also, you can get antenna distros (Shure makes several models, and there are tons of aftermarkets too) that are active and can receive far better than the built in ones. You need to daisy chain from A to B to C etc but that's not too big of a task.



Right now I have one Shure UA844 Power and Antenna distro. I am looking to get three more to work us up to a 20 mic distro. Does this model look like it would suffice, or do you have another suggestion? As far as the running a snake to FOH goes, with the current set up for the school it would cost about $18,000 to run a snake through to wall to our FOH mix with 16 channels. Mostly because we are required to go through school work orders. It is on my wish list, but below a board. 


> Mute groups are a bit different as they simply combine multiple channel mutes together, but most digital consoles support much greater scene functionality than just mute groups.
> 
> However, I'm going to go in a bit different direction here and suggest that you not necessarily look just to equipment to resolve this problem. Training, preparation and planning can be a much more effective solution than relying on hardware solutions. A digital console may help in terms of scenes, DCAs, mute groups, etc. but you have to understand how to use those in the first place in order to apply them effectively. There may be some creative ways to use Groups and other capabilities on your current console to resolve your problems and I much prefer to approach things as "what can I do to make it work with what I have" before moving right on to looking at gear as the solution, that tends to benefit everyone even if you do replace the equipment.



I suppose I wasn't completely clear on this. We have had official sound techs come out and supply training, and my lead engineer (student) is already working professionally for EDGE audio here in Colorado. The problem is that when we have 23 individual mics that all need to be turning on an off individually (or in random pairs) within scenes because of the inability of the high schoolers to remain quite on stage and the significant bustle of a 60 person chorus of extras dancing around them 6 mute groups isn't enough. A good example of this is the sock hop scene in Grease (most recent experience of this). Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel we have mostly maximized our current equipments capabilities, and I would love to be able have some level of scene recording in my board. I can't seem to find an analog board though that has the ability to record scenes.

I've got to run to class, but as I stated, thanks again to everyone for all of your help and assistance so far! I have really appreciated it!


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## museav (Sep 3, 2012)

jddgg22 said:


> I suppose I wasn't completely clear on this. We have had official sound techs come out and supply training, and my lead engineer (student) is already working professionally for EDGE audio here in Colorado. The problem is that when we have 23 individual mics that all need to be turning on an off individually (or in random pairs) within scenes because of the inability of the high schoolers to remain quite on stage and the significant bustle of a 60 person chorus of extras dancing around them 6 mute groups isn't enough. A good example of this is the sock hop scene in Grease (most recent experience of this). Perhaps I am wrong, but I feel we have mostly maximized our current equipments capabilities, and I would love to be able have some level of scene recording in my board. I can't seem to find an analog board though that has the ability to record scenes.


If you often need to be making major changes within scenes then scene recall may not be the right solution or if it is then you might require scene recall that is very flexible, very transparent and very fast. One thing to keep in mind with scenes is that they are preset configurations, if you are having to address situations that vary for each performance then VCAs/DCAs and/or Subgroups in conjunction with your multiple mute groups might be a better approach for those situations.

There are analog consoles with snapshot and even flying fader automation but with current technology a digital consoles is likely to be the more cost effective option unless you just happen to find a great deal on a used analog mixer with fader automation.



jddgg22 said:


> Perhaps I didn't represent our schools sound situations well enough. The infrastructure of the schools sound system is less than ideal. Though we have quality speakers and amps they have been installed without a lot of care as to their placement, however they are permanently fixed into the architecture of the building. Right now we have two mid and high freq sets on stage right and stage left shooting down at an angle towards the front 6 rows of seating. Our subs are set as a center cluster without any high or mid range speakers shooting out towards mid house. Due to the positioning of the high and mid range speakers it is hard to get a lot of amplification in the hanging mics (if we need to mic the chorus closer to the apron) without feed back. Granted, we have done a very good job of ringing everything out prior to performances and have actually rarely gotten feedback. The problem is that there is such a significant discrepancy between the levels that we can get from our body mics on our leads and the reinforcement we can supply our chorus. It is always awkward when a single persons voice is substantially louder than a chorus of 60, but our director isn't content with simply bringing the level back or out on the leads when they are singing with the chorus, she would rather somehow raise the chorus to the same level as the leads. Which I can't seem to do on my hanging mics without them creating feed back.




jddgg22 said:


> We are at 14 body packs and I plan on upgrading to about 20 within the next year. The problem is, we cast appx 60 - 70 students, provide a single mic for almost every single lead (and usually secondary parts), but still can't get the desired sound from the chorus that the director wants without the overheads.




jddgg22 said:


> I am looking for something durable is the main issue. My students are very good at damaging over ear elements.


Sounds like there may be other issues to address in terms of people working within the limitations that exist and being proactive in addressing some of the challenges you are encountering. The laws of physics will not change just because your Director wants them to and there are aspects where a new mixer can only go so far in resolving the problems. The Director and others should be willing to work with you to develop solutions together or to help fight for changes that could then support what they want.


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