# PreSonus StudioLive 32.4.2AI as a church FOH mixer?



## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

So we're planning on having this as an option for our next church mixing board coz our recent one(Behringer Eurodesk) is dying. 
I have no experiences with this mixing board at all, but i've heard tons of good news and reviews about this. Besides, its really affordable since our church is pretty much tight on the budget as of now. My 1st option was a Allen & Heath GL3200 but since it only had 6 aux outs, it made me changed my mind about it when i saw the studiolive having 14 aux outs which i think is really really awesome! I'm not really a sound engineer like everybody else in these community but i would love to hear your insights and suggestions about this product. thanks!
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## Aman121 (Feb 25, 2013)

Reasonable board. Not a true digital, as it doesn't have moderized faders and the cuing is a little awkward, but does come with some of the digital toys like compression/effects and support for remote operation off of an Ipad or PC. I wouldn't recommend this board for anyone interested in doing theatre work but for services and the odd worship band it should preform fine. Not the best sounding console ever made, but certainly better than some. Plus their a large user base out there. All in all, if you think it will work for you, then go for it!


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## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

We yeah, you got a point there. it doesnt have the motorized faders and stuff but i believe it allows to save your mixes. do you think this is way better than the behringer digital mixer? Is there any brands similar to this you can suggest with the same price range? i was looking for some recently but it doesnt have same amount of the aux outs that the studiolive has. Thumbs up to Presonus for that feature!


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## chausman (Feb 25, 2013)

Check the recent Behringer X32 thread. The new digitals are very comparable to the Studiolive. And the benefit of things like motorized faders. And at a very good price.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

chausman said:


> Check the recent Behringer X32 thread. The new digitals are very comparable to the Studiolive. And the benefit of things like motorized faders. And at a very good price.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD



well yeah, but i am always skeptic about purchasing another behringer stuffs... although they collaborated with midas with it. hmmm behringer for me is just too shady with stuffs

edited:
-gosh, i just found out that Behringer bought midas... currently researching about this X32. So far that it had good reviews. I saw it in person at Guitar Center. TSK the knobs and pots looks so much fancy cheap looking plastic.


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## bishopthomas (Feb 25, 2013)

Behringer X32. No reason to look any further. I was with you on the skepticism but after using it several times I'm a believer. I'm planning on buying some of the new rack mount devices once they are released. I have a Studiolive 16.4.2 and the Behringer is better in every single aspect. It's less expensive than the 32 channel Presonus, sounds better. The Studiolive sounds a little thin compared to the Behringer. It's not bad, and certainly better than Yamahas, but just lacks a little "warmth" that's there on the X32. The fact that it has motorized faders makes it a no brainer right away, in my opinion. They both have multitrack recording and playback options. Although, I believe the Behringer has both USB and Firewire whereas the StudioLive only has Firewire. This can be an issue with machines that either do not have Firewire at all or have chipsets that tend to not work well with audio interfaces (Dell being the main culprit).

Another huge selling point on the X32 is the option to use a digital (Cat5) snake. All you need is a stage box (or two) and you can run a single Ethernet cable as your main snake. Leave a 4 space rack on stage with your preamps (Behringer S16). Now, if you already have a snake in place then this becomes less useful, but in my world of portable systems it's HUGE. You can even mix and match; use one 16 channel stage box for stage inputs and the other 16 inputs on the console for wireless mics playback, talkback, etc.

Sorry, Presonus, but the niche market you thought you had has been shattered by Behringer. If I can get any decent amount of money for my 16.4.2 then I'm putting that into some of the Behringer gear. But in actuality the X32 has caused the bottom to fall out of small format digital mixers.


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## museav (Feb 25, 2013)

THORNSZ said:


> So we're planning on having this as an option for our next church mixing board coz our recent one(Behringer Eurodesk) is dying.
> I have no experiences with this mixing board at all, but i've heard tons of good news and reviews about this. Besides, its really affordable since our church is pretty much tight on the budget as of now. My 1st option was a Allen & Heath GL3200 but since it only had 6 aux outs, it made me changed my mind about it when i saw the studiolive having 14 aux outs which i think is really really awesome! I'm not really a sound engineer like everybody else in these community but i would love to hear your insights and suggestions about this product.


Don't purchase something because it is supposedly the latest and greatest, instead purchase what makes sense for you. Don't worry about the capabilities unless those capabilities will actually benefit you. In situations like yours that usually means first deciding what you really need or want from a mixer, thus you might want to take a step back and start with defining the situation a bit more, everything from specific needs for the mixer to the experience and ability of users. For example, you mention the GL3200 only having 6 aux outputs and the StudioLive having 14, but do you actually need more than 6 aux outputs and/or do you need them to be certain pre/post configurations?

Also think of any related considerations. Using the auxes as an example again, the 32.4.2AI may have more aux outputs but do you have the cabling, etc. in place to make use of them or would there be additional changes required?

And just to make sure you realize that the StudioLive 32.4.2AI is not yet available. It is apparently expected to be available sometime in April but delays in releases and initial backorders have become increasingly common so if you need something soon that may be a consideration.

On a side note, are you sure your current desk is 'dying'? Are there specific problems? Not only could this impact when you might need a replacement but you probably want to avoid getting a new mixer if there are any external issues causing some of the problems.


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## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

museav said:


> Don't purchase something because it is supposedly the latest and greatest, instead purchase what makes sense for you. Don't worry about the capabilities unless those capabilities will actually benefit you. In situations like yours that usually means first deciding what you really need or want from a mixer, thus you might want to take a step back and start with defining the situation a bit more, everything from specific needs for the mixer to the experience and ability of users. For example, you mention the GL3200 only having 6 aux outputs and the StudioLive having 14, but do you actually need more than 6 aux outputs and/or do you need them to be certain pre/post configurations?
> 
> Also think of any related considerations. Using the auxes as an example again, the 32.4.2AI may have more aux outputs but do you have the cabling, etc. in place to make use of them or would there be additional changes required?
> 
> ...



@bishopthomas
thanks for tha insights bro, i guess we might add the x32 as an option. Good thing about it coz its cheaper too! how many aux outs does it have again? 

@museav
to be honest i have no experiences mixing and controlling with digital mixers, i only based my knowledge about the product thru reviews and forums like this. Yes, aux outs is really important imo, need more outs for personal in ear monitors and etc... and about our dying mixer to be honest we just want to replace it coz its old, and the knobs and faders are not working well. Every time i tweak the main fader, it makes a lot of annoying grounding like noises. It's a behringer eurodesk sl2442fx-pro by the way. it sucks too, besides its a mono mixer, it only has 2 aux outs. 

Gosh this like Presonus Studiolive vs Behringer x32


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## bishopthomas (Feb 25, 2013)

If you go with the Behringer you can add P16 unit(s) and everyone can control their own IEM mixes via iPad. I don't know much about it, but it seems like the perfect setup for your situation (IEM's at church).


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## museav (Feb 25, 2013)

THORNSZ said:


> thanks for tha insights bro, i guess we might add the x32 as an option. Good thing about it coz its cheaper too! how many aux outs does it have again?


The StudioLive is much more like an analog console in that it has fixed signal routing and fixed inputs and outputs. The X32 is more like most other digital mixers in that it has a number of physical inputs and outputs whose functions are determined by how they are routed within the mixer configuration. That makes the mixer very flexible, but it also means the mixer configuration is dependent on how you configure it. The X32 has 16 mix buses (plus LCR and 6 matrix buses) and 16 main outputs so you could use all 16 of those outputs as aux outs or you could have 14 aux outs and main Left/Right or maybe L/R, 8 aux sends and 8 channel direct outs or however you program the mixer configuration. The X32 also has a connection for the Behringer personal mix system, so you could have even more outputs for monitors via that or via the expansion stage box outputs.


THORNSZ said:


> to be honest i have no experiences mixing and controlling with digital mixers, i only based my knowledge about the product thru reviews and forums like this. Yes, aux outs is really important imo, need more outs for personal in ear monitors and etc... and about our dying mixer to be honest we just want to replace it coz its old, and the knobs and faders are not working well. Every time i tweak the main fader, it makes a lot of annoying grounding like noises. It's a behringer eurodesk sl2442fx-pro by the way. it sucks too, besides its a mono mixer, it only has 2 aux outs.


You mean this, Behringer: EURODESK SL2442FX-PRO? That is not a mono mixer and I wouldn't be surprised if the faders need to be cleaned. What concerns me when looking at a new mixer with more inputs, more outputs, etc. is how that works with the existing infrastructure (cabling, cable paths, etc.). I just hate to see you purchase a new console and then have to come back asking how to make it work once you have it or find that you can't make full use of what you bought without additional investment.


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## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

museav said:


> What concerns me when looking at a new mixer with more inputs, more outputs, etc. is how that works with the existing infrastructure (cabling, cable paths, etc.). I just hate to see you purchase a new console and then have to come back asking how to make it work once you have it or find that you can't make full use of what you bought without additional investment.



I think you're right! as of now, we're only capable of having 24 inputs according to our current snake, but we're about to transfer to our new building within this year. So that means we can change all the cabling and stuff according to the new mixer, right? plus behringer has the S16, less cabling! i'm not a real sound engineer or something but since nobody knows about stuffs like this in my church, for instance i serves as the sound dude for now since i play in for the worship team at the same time. Saving scenes would be a big help! sigh, they gotta hire a real one soon. Do you think this x32 is a good interface for our church needs? Band? vocals? preacher's mic? personal IEMs?


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## museav (Feb 25, 2013)

The PreSonus StudioLive series and Behringer X32 are both very popular in the worship market. The upcoming StudioLive 32.4.2AI, Roland M200i and Soundcraft Si Expression are also all fairly cost competitive options to the X32 and I'm sure you will be seeing others. Of course the X32 has only been out for a few months and although most of the others are derivatives of existing products some claim some major changes and they are all still to be released. So the long term durability and reliability on any of those products is not yet known. If you need a new mixer now it may not be an option, but if you can wait then it might make sense to wait at least until there is some initial feedback on some of the 'to be released' products.

There are tradeoffs. Virtually any digital console other than the StudioLive is going to require someone with sufficient understanding to configure it for your use. And if you have no one familiar with using gates, compressors, channel EQ, etc. then the channel libraries of the StudioLive may be very useful. On the other hand, due to things like non-motorized faders and analog gain/trim controls, the scenes on the StudioLive leave something to be desired if you need to make rapid changes or need true 'one button' presets (you may still have to manually chart or mark some settings such as the channel gain/trim levels).

If you are moving into a new building within the year then I hope someone is addressing the acoustics and audio systems, along with video and lighting, as they search for or plan the new space. Between the new venue and need for a new mixer it sounds like a good time for some Master Planning to try to make sure that the technology and infrastructure being implemented support the church's vision for the near future.


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## THORNSZ (Feb 25, 2013)

I made a new thread about this but looks like the Admin merge the thread. You might wanna respond to this too! thanks  

Regardless of the price, what do you think is better? Since a lot of people here are talking about this Behringer unit being good, i just want to know your insights about these FOH mixers, coz i'm planning of purchasing this as our Church Mixer soon. To be honest, i'm still skeptical about this behringer even if it has the midas membrane in it. I saw this one time at Guitar Center -i just dont feel it. It has cheap looking fancy plastics as knobs and faders. I dont know if its just me or whatnot but it doesnt look as durable as the Presonus Live. well i know it is not the basis for having a good sound but you guys prolly know what my views with the Behringer stereotypes. I would love to hear your insights about this 2 bad boys. *PROs and CONs?
*
as far as needs is concern, we had the normal church sound needs like line band setups, Vocals, Pastor's Mic, and Personals IEMs, etc..


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## Spresley (Feb 26, 2013)

As others have said, if you want a straight comparison "one vs the other"...
The pluses of the Behringer:
The Behringer sounds better (warmer), it has the digital CAT 5 snake option S16, it has the monitor P16 control option, it has flying faders
it's now open to waves plug ins... it does not have a fixed routing (which is a good thing), it has an iphone monitor control app... yes Iphone ( they both have ipad apps)

The Presonus has..... an oversized price tag.

Someone said it best... Presonus is an analog console with some built in effects and recording capability. The X32 is a "digital console" (as we know them to be)


If you really want some information - read the 5000 posts on the X32 console by real console owners, and sound guys...
X32 Discussion

They have also started a small "what if prensonus" discussion
http://soundforums.net/junior-varsity/6555-presonus-32-4-2al.html#post50285


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## museav (Feb 26, 2013)

Spresley said:


> Someone said it best... Presonus is an analog console with some built in effects and recording capability. The X32 is a "digital console" (as we know them to be)


And some people want one and others the other. The biggest advantage I see to the StudioLive in some applications is that it is like much more like an analog console in terms of connectivity, channel assignments and signal routing. Channel 1 on the board is Input 1 on the rear panel. The Aux 1 bus is the Aux 1 bus and is tied to the Aux 1 output on the rear panel. No real setup or configuration is required for use and nothing to potentially mess up there during use. The flip side of that is that you are limited to the choices made by the manufacturer, if they work for you that's great, if not then you have no real option but to work around them.

As an example, say you have an input on a stage that is used for a vocal for one service and guitar via a DI box for another service. With the StudioLive you can have presets for those two services that set the desired effects for the related channel. What you can't do with the StudioLive is have a preset for the service that automatically adjusts that channel's gain/trim and fader, you have to manually set the gain and move the fader to the location the mixer shows before making the preset 'live'. You also can't have a preset that changes the channel assignment so that input is on a channel grouped with the other vocals for the first service and then on a different channel grouped with the instruments for the second service. However, to get that greater flexibility then someone has to address the related programming and configuration of the mixer and not necessarily just for special situation such as that described but possibly also to simply get a baseline configuration for normal use.

While some people seem to think layers is often the most difficult aspect of learning to use a digital mixer my experience is that understanding virtual patching and the flexibility is routing a digital mixer often provides can be more challenging. In many cases that is overcome by the fact that not every operator needs that knowledge as long as someone does in order to do the programming. But if you don't have anyone that understand it then it can be a very difficult concept for some to grasp.


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## Spresley (Feb 26, 2013)

museav said:


> And some people want one and others the other. The biggest advantage I see to the StudioLive in some applications is that it is like much more like an analog console in terms of connectivity, channel assignments and signal routing. Channel 1 on the board is Input 1 on the rear panel. The Aux 1 bus is the Aux 1 bus and is tied to the Aux 1 output on the rear panel. No real setup or configuration is required for use and nothing to potentially mess up there during use. The flip side of that is that you are limited to the choices made by the manufacturer, if they work for you that's great, if not then you have no real option but to work around them..



If the user group is not yet advanced enough in routing to "figure out" advanced routing techniques, there's nothing to say they actually HAVE to change the stock routing in the console. Upon power up, ch 1 is still ch 1, aux 1 is aux 1.... nobody says you have to change anything


museav said:


> As an example, say you have an input on a stage that is used for a vocal for one service and guitar via a DI box for another service. With the StudioLive you can have presets for those two services that set the desired effects for the related channel. What you can't do with the StudioLive is have a preset for the service that automatically adjusts that channel's gain/trim and fader, you have to manually set the gain and move the fader to the location the mixer shows before making the preset 'live'. You also can't have a preset that changes the channel assignment so that input is on a channel grouped with the other vocals for the first service and then on a different channel grouped with the instruments for the second service. However, to get that greater flexibility then someone has to address the related programming and configuration of the mixer and not necessarily just for special situation such as that described but possibly also to simply get a baseline configuration for normal use..



Again someone will have to gain a modicum of experitise on any console to create "presets" for services... I'm thinking the labelling feature on the behringer will be more than clear when the user can see GTR, ch 16 and a Guitar icon... as opposed to the now obsolete strip of white tape across the presonus console (unless they keep service 1 strip of board tape, and service 2 strip of tape) lol


museav said:


> While some people seem to think layers is often the most difficult aspect of learning to use a digital mixer my experience is that understanding virtual patching and the flexibility is routing a digital mixer often provides can be more challenging. In many cases that is overcome by the fact that not every operator needs that knowledge as long as someone does in order to do the programming. But if you don't have anyone that understand it then it can be a very difficult concept for some to grasp.



I agree that if someone were to create a scene with some obscure routing, it might be difficult for a new user to figure out an issue... but again that's where good housekeeping practises come into play, and a facility should create a "stock patch" as a beginning place, save it on the console, and also save that on a users USB key - worst case, start from scratch. You cannot deny the behringer console (historical stignma of the brand aside), that it's a superior console to the presonus offering. I've used both, the presonus 16ch for a day in my studio, until I returned it the next day and my x32's since oct 2012.


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## abomb123 (Feb 26, 2013)

PLEASE READ!!!!

I think this thread kind of got a little off topic. Our friend here needs a specific tool for a specific Job. and No the presonus would NOT work well AT ALL in a Theater setting but I work for an Audio company and a praise band. I am in churches all the time. In fact a small church uses this mixer and so does the Utah army band (my unit) and so does the University of Utah. in fact if you want to dig deeper the The David Crowder Band (now the Digital Age since they broke up) Uses presonus mixers and products in there studio.

It works fine for worship. The reason is because it has nice pre amp's and basic built in effects that wont loose people volunteering to run audio like someone said earlier the Presonus consoles have an anologe feel to them. so you don't get lost. the x32 has more of a digital feel to it but to me it was pretty easy to figure out. since you wont have pro's runnnig audio light and video you need the most simple set up and the Prosonus is probably the best bet.

If I was a pastor starting church it would depend on how qualified your volunteers are. but if you don't have a highly skilled set of individuals helping out the Prosonus is probably your best bet. if you can get time to do a little more training x32 would work as well.


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## Spresley (Feb 26, 2013)

abomb123 said:


> Our friend here needs a specific tool for a specific Job. It works fine for worship. The reason is because it has nice pre amp's and basic built in effects that wont loose people volunteering to run audio like someone said earlier the Presonus consoles have an anologe feel to them. so you don't get lost. But if you don't have a highly skilled set of individuals helping out the Prosonus is probably your best bet. if you can get time to do a little more training x32 would work as well.



I have no "irons in the fire here" as to which mixer the Op installs... but as the owner of a proaudio sound and lighting company, I get asked to do installs all the time, and for "my opinion" all the time. This does NOT make me an expert, but I do not ever quote the "good enough for now" option so that the user isn't upset with me when he asks to expand his installed option 6 months from now. Yes I'm sure the "works fine for now" option will get you 6 months , or a year or more down the road, but he mentioned a NEW building. Are you going to purchase a NEW snake to put in the new building - if you are, would you rather not purchase a $200 piece of cat5 cable, and 2 x $800 snake heads or a $3000+ audio snake. And down the road when you want to add a monitor console to said set-up, are we now spending more money for a split snake, or would you rather buy a $5 piece of cat 5 cable ? I'm trying to highlight the expansion capabilies of the X32 as opposed to the dinosaur "out of the gate" presonus console... 
BTW - did I mention the presonus 32ch is $1000 more expensive than an X-32 ( that's a free snake head + 250ft cat 5 snake, built in right there)

Also just as an exercise, type behringer x32 into youtube... the instructions and videos that normal users has put out there is phenominal... I'm not sure there are 20K presounus owners/users out there. It might be another good place for the OP to secure some information on the ease of use, and features of each console. BTW - another reason why I took the presonus back is it would easily distort... so much for the "nice pre-amps".

Better yet - try before you buy... I'm sure you can beg or borrow one of these consoles in the area near you ... There is NOTHING better than hearing each in your space, and making an informed decsion. Best of luck


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## josh88 (Feb 26, 2013)

Spresley said:


> Better yet - try before you buy... I'm sure you can beg or borrow one of these consoles in the area near you ... There is NOTHING better than hearing each in your space, and making an informed decsion. Best of luck



You'd obviously have to wait for the new presonus to come out to test that, but you can find an equivalent older version that will be about the same. Talk to dealers or rental houses in your area, you can either get one to play with as a demo or worst case drop a couple bucks and rent them for a week. 

I'm sold on the direction Behringer is going now and there's a lot of fancy looking plastic on a lot of desks out there.


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## bishopthomas (Feb 26, 2013)

To address some of the concerns..... Again, I own a 16.4.2 and have a pair of X32's sitting in my shop right now, so I'm speaking from hands on experience here. Plus, it's my money so keep in mind that I'm also coming from a financially responsible place as well. The "cheap plastic" on the Behringer actually feels better than that of the Presonus. I'm not a huge fan of the Behringer company, having had several bad experiences myself, but I really think that this console is the exception. I LOVE the digital scribble strip, especially for a church setting where you'll be recalling scenes based on the type of service you're mixing. The X32 sounds better than the Studiolive. I actually think it's easier to use as well. There are 36 programmable buttons/knobs, like the Yamaha user defined keys, that make accessing buried menus super fast. I put my graphics on the buttons, a tap tempo, and some EFX parameters go on the knobs. Getting to the graphic EQ on the Studiolive is cumbersome to say the least. I think that the X32 has an analog feel to it as well, in that your entire channel strip is right in front of you at all times. You also have several options on the way you control certain parameters, such as using the aux busses. You can either go into sends on faders or select the channel and use the rotaries to set up monitor mixes.


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## THORNSZ (Feb 26, 2013)

Spresley said:


> Yes I'm sure the "works fine for now" option will get you 6 months , or a year or more down the road, but he mentioned a NEW building. *Are you going to purchase a NEW snake to put in the new building - if you are, would you rather not purchase a $200 piece of cat5 cable, and 2 x $800 snake heads or a $3000+ audio snake*. And down the road when you want to add a monitor console to said set-up, are we now spending more money for a split snake, or would you rather buy a $5 piece of cat 5 cable ? I'm trying to highlight the expansion capabilies of the X32 as opposed to the dinosaur "out of the gate" presonus console...



There you go! that makes sense now. Thanks for pointing that out! i was never really thinking about that too! looks like x32's best for our situation.


Spresley said:


> there you go! that makes sense now. Thanks for pointing that out, i was really not thinking about those snakes and stuff.


Can you give me a link where can i get this deal? i was searching lately like sweetwater, etc. and those items are usually sold separately. 

@abomb123 
i'll rather take time to learn and train whoever is interested about mixing in my church than settling down.
And yes, i need those motorize faders to save scenes, since a lot of people from my church just tweaks the mixer not knowing what they're doing and that pisses me off whenever the sound on set starts to change. Thanks for pointing that out too!


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## Spresley (Feb 26, 2013)

THORNSZ said:


> Can you give me a link where can i get this deal? i was searching lately like sweetwater, etc. and those items are usually sold separately.



I'm sure if you walked into your local behringer retailer, you would be able to swing some sort of package deal for an X32, and a couple S16 snake heads..especially being a church ( if you check the behringer thread in this forum, somebody got an even better deal on thier X32), check that thread out , and contact them... I'm in Ottawa, Canada so I would be unable to give you any viable information on dealers in your area... 

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/29720-behringer-x32-4.html 

Cat 5 cable, I wouldn't get cheap box store cat 5 even though you are installing the cat 5 cable, I'd go with a tactical cat 5 cable - and run 1 or 2 more runs than what you will use... that way you have expansion options, and redundantcy if one were to malfunction at any point. Also you'll want to think about sending a cat 5 run for the P16 monitor boxes... from the foh console to the stage.
I'm guessing by the time you're done, you'll be looking at 6ish cable runs, in which case you could get a multicore solution of 6 cat5 built into one snake....
best-tronics.com/guitar-cable/pdf/EurocableCat6.pdf 

You could also run DMX down cat 5 cable now and video... again expansion options.

http://www.cablek.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3997|2|17 

Glad you've walked into the light sir. 

Speak of light, something that just came to light on the soundforum page.... the presonus console has a 1.5 second audio full console mute when switching scenes... that would been fun throughout the service huh


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## museav (Feb 26, 2013)

Spresley said:


> If the user group is not yet advanced enough in routing to "figure out" advanced routing techniques, there's nothing to say they actually HAVE to change the stock routing in the console. Upon power up, ch 1 is still ch 1, aux 1 is aux 1.... nobody says you have to change anything


I was referring to digital consoles in general, but using the X32 and its default routing as an example, what functions as Aux 1 for an analog console is not called "Aux 1" anywhere, it is Send 1 assigned to Mix Bus 1 that is assigned to Output 1 while what is actually labeled "Aux Out 1" on the rear panel is apparently default assigned as an insert. Similarly, there are no main "Left" and "Right" outputs on the rear panel, the Main Left and Right mix buses are routed to Outputs 15 and 16. If you want Subgroups you can have them (or DCAs) but not without some understanding of how to do so. You may not have to change anything but not exactly user friendly if you don't know how things are routed. I especially wish they had come up with something other than the "Aux Out" nomenclature if those are not default assigned as typical Aux Outputs.

If you just want to directly replace an analog console with a digital console with no other changes then the StudioLive is often hard to beat, but the very things that help there also greatly eliminate the routing flexibility can be a great asset with a digital console.


Spresley said:


> Cat 5 cable, I wouldn't get cheap box store cat 5 even though you are installing the cat 5 cable, I'd go with a tactical cat 5 cable - and run 1 or 2 more runs than what you will use... that way you have expansion options, and redundantcy if one were to malfunction at any point.


If it is an install there may be other factors such as code requirements and cable ratings to consider.


Spresley said:


> Speak of light, something that just came to light on the soundforum page.... the presonus console has a 1.5 second audio full console mute when switching scenes... that would been fun throughout the service huh


That has been long documented for the earlier StudioLive consoles and while a major issue if you are trying to make quick recalls it is not necessarily an issue if it is between services, portions of the service, etc. It is also apparently not an issue when recalls are made from the VSL software and I don't know if it will be relevant to the 32.4.2AI when it is released.

I don't 'have a dog in the fight' but think that any related decision should consider all options and make a selection based on what is the best fit for you, right now there seems to be a great deal of biased comparisons and misinformation floating around including assuming the StudioLive 32.4.2AI, which is a new product not yet in production, will have the same issues as previous StudioLive versions.


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## Spresley (Feb 26, 2013)

museav said:


> I was referring to digital consoles in general, but using the X32 and its default routing as an example, what functions as Aux 1 for an analog console is not called "Aux 1" anywhere, it is Send 1 assigned to Mix Bus 1 that is assigned to Output 1 while what is actually labeled "Aux Out 1" on the rear panel is apparently default assigned as an insert. There are no main "Left" and "Right" outputs on the rear panel, the Main Left and Right mix buses are routed to Outputs 15 and 16. If you wan Subgroups you can have them but not without some understanding of how to do so. You may not have to change anything but not exactly user friendly if you don't know how to ascertain how things are routed. I especially wish they had come up with something other than the "Aux In" and "Aux Out" nomenclature if those are not default assigned like typical Aux Inputs and Aux Outputs.




Every console is going to have it's specific naming conventions ( aux 1, bus 1 send 1), if you understand what you are trying to do, you'll get there.
Again there is already a weath of information on this console online to be mined at any time. Note the midas venice console attached... FX1, 2 MON 1,2, AUX 1,2 - does one do anything different other than push signal, nope ( with the exception of pre/post EQ/fader settings)
As per my statement, with the console already previously patched and initialized - monitor mix 1, would come out of XLR output #1 when turning (aux/buss knob #1)

I defer to my statement about having a modicum amount of knowledge, meaning that after the second time someone made the effort to route an input, or output - they would understand the concpet moving forward. FWIW the main outputs default to 15 and 16, not that they would be using them with the s16 snake anyway. Physically on the console, there would be a cat 5 and power plugged in, and any sort of playback devices located at FOH. The snake head I assume after setting them up that the ouputs would be wired and not touched... If there was any doubt about routing there should a scene loaded on the console ( buy either the head tech, or the re-seller depending on where they go - if it's GC I doubt someone will come out, but if it's a pro audio installer, they would probably come out and install and create a standard starting file). Lastly if all else fails there is the internet and youtube to figure out routing and the like, including this place.

Subgroups are a tricky matter on this console, but if I have the choice I'll take a DCA over a subgroup anytime. Assigning a DCA to channels quick primer. Press and Hold down the DCA select button , select the channels you wish to assign to the DCA and when youre finished, release the DCA select button.... mind blowing I know. The novice user with the console set-up would take a couple sessions to get comfortable mixing on the console, and a couple weeks to get confortable routing, editing the console. It is very easy to learn.


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## TimmyP1955 (Feb 28, 2013)

I see no advantage to the SL32 as compared to the X32. I see a number of advantages to the X32 over the SL32.


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## museav (Mar 1, 2013)

TimmyP1955 said:


> I see no advantage to the SL32 as compared to the X32. I see a number of advantages to the X32 over the SL32.


This may be the crux, you see no advantage for you or no advantage ever for anyone? I would probably recommend the X32 over the SL 32.4.2AI for most situations, but I believe that there are potential exceptions. And where you are considering those then the Roland M200i and Soundcraft Si Expression may also be potential options.


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## dgourley (Mar 1, 2013)

Brad, are you trying to inform or argue for argue's sake? Your discussion isn't about two products that have strengths and weaknesses, but rather a console that was first to the scene and now is lacking in features. I have advocated and installed SL boards into venues since they were released, but since I first had hands on time with an X32, it was pretty clear that the existing studiolive boards were overrun. Barring some major change in software at the very base level, this 32 channel SL will suffer from the same systemic issues as its siblings.
As for the "what's easier for church volunteers" argument, I have served as a pastor at a large church for 9 years working with volunteers and have walked them through adjustments from a Mackie SR40-8 to a Midas Legend to a Digidesign Venue console. It is all in the training. The day of specifying an analog console (or a digital one that acts like one) are officially behind us. That said, all decisions should be made with I/O requirements in line which barring some abnormal system design, the X32 is more than capable of handling.


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## museav (Mar 1, 2013)

dgourley said:


> As for the "what's easier for church volunteers" argument, I have served as a pastor at a large church for 9 years working with volunteers and have walked them through adjustments from a Mackie SR40-8 to a Midas Legend to a Digidesign Venue console. It is all in the training.


Ah, there's the catch. Take a group with no experience with a digital console and limited relevant experience in general and who is going to provide the training? You first need someone who can train and for some groups that person does not exist. Maybe you'll get some training from a local dealer if you purchase a mixer from them but I seriously doubt anyone from Guitar Center, Sweetwater, All Pro, etc. is going to come out and train you if you purchase a mixer online from them.

When I see comments like "I have no experiences with this mixing board at all", "I'm not really a sound engineer", "to be honest i have no experiences mixing and controlling with digital mixers" and "for instance i serves as the sound dude for now since i play in for the worship team at the same time" I have to wonder who would be installing the mixer and providing any training or if something that connects and operates more like their current mixer might be of some value. It's far from the only basis for any product selection, but not one that I think should necessarily be overlooked either.


dgourley said:


> The day of specifying an analog console (or a digital one that acts like one) are officially behind us.


Hmm, guess some people failed to get that memo, for example the recent Rolling Stones 50th Anniversary tour that Clair did with two PM4000s at FoH and a Heritage 3000 for monitors or the Andrea Bocelli tour with PRG providing a Heritage 4000 at FoH or Neil Young with Eight Day Sound and a Heritage 3000 for monitors.

Digital consoles are certainly becoming more common and an increasingly practical option for those with limited budgets but especially with the resulting impact on new and used analog console prices there is no reason to not keep your options open.


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## dgourley (Mar 2, 2013)

museav said:


> Ah, there's the catch. Take a group with no experience with a digital console and limited relevant experience in general and who is going to provide the training? You first need someone who can train and for some groups that person does not exist. Maybe you'll get some training from a local dealer if you purchase a mixer from them but I seriously doubt anyone from Guitar Center, Sweetwater, All Pro, etc. is going to come out and train you if you purchase a mixer online from them.



So your goal is to save the entire user base that purchases equipment online by constantly flip-flopping in an online forum about the seemingly minute virtues of various AVL products??? That is futile at best.

An uneducated purchase is an uneducated purchase and whether the board is analog or digital does not make a difference as the delicate understandings of aux/sends Pre and Post fade are hard for laymen users to grasp. 

As for your stab at the analog consoles making a comeback on a Stones tour, that is great that the PM's were a choice by the audio designer/touring company as well as the H3000 for Bocelli. Both great consoles and both workhorses for tour riders that PRG has paid for over and over again. Having been at a regional production company for 4 years, I have seen the riders adapt to what is cheapest for the promoter to pay for and the production company to commit for the performance run time and again.

If you re-read the quote from above you will notice that I stated the days of "specifying" these consoles are over -- as specifying them into a venue as a permanent installation (the context of this post). I stand behind that statement. I have several projects in Design Development at the moment and only one has an analog mixer on it. Its a SCM268 from Shure running zones for some spill over into multipurpose spaces.

All other mix consoles are digital from various manufacturers. None of them are a SL. A couple are X32's, Venue and a Digico SD11. This is a new age where analog is on life support for those of us who design and construct these spaces for many reasons based in practical application and use.


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## museav (Mar 3, 2013)

dgourley said:


> As for your stab at the analog consoles making a comeback on a Stones tour, that is great that the PM's were a choice by the audio designer/touring company as well as the H3000 for Bocelli. Both great consoles and both workhorses for tour riders that PRG has paid for over and over again. Having been at a regional production company for 4 years, I have seen the riders adapt to what is cheapest for the promoter to pay for and the production company to commit for the performance run time and again.


I seriously doubt that cost is that much of a factor for the Stones. I would guess that the PMs and Heritages you see on tours are usually there because they are something with which those involved are familiar and comfortable. And that is exactly the point, there can sometimes be value in that familiarity and comfort that supersedes other factors.


dgourley said:


> If you re-read the quote from above you will notice that I stated the days of "specifying" these consoles are over -- as specifying them into a venue as a permanent installation (the context of this post). I stand behind that statement. I have several projects in Design Development at the moment and only one has an analog mixer on it. Its a SCM268 from Shure running zones for some spill over into multipurpose spaces.
> 
> All other mix consoles are digital from various manufacturers. None of them are a SL. A couple are X32's, Venue and a Digico SD11. This is a new age where analog is on life support for those of us who design and construct these spaces for many reasons based in practical application and use.


Tech riders also "specify" requirements but in terms of installed systems I tend to specify whatever seems appropriate for the application. In this case I see:


They are replacing an existing Eurodesk sl2442fx-pro primarily because it is 'dying' and that seems to be the extent of the scope of work.
There initial first choice was a GL3200 and the apparent reason even considering anything else was the number of aux sends.
They have no experience with digital consoles and may not have anyone with such knowledge available to help them.
The church leadership seems willing to invest in gear but to not want to invest in any outside assistance.
Their existing snake only supports 24 channels.
They are moving to a new venue in a year.
So nothing about the immediate situation seems to strongly suggest a X32 or a digital console in general, but does seem to suggest there may potentially be some value in familiarity and ease of implementation.

The one potential caveat might be in the last point that if you did look at the long term implications for the new venue and combine that with the immediate needs then you may be not only looking at a different situation in terms of the functionality and scope of work but also in terms of potentially involving design, installation, training, etc. And that may indeed end up suggesting a digital mixer.

Put simply, were I designing a new system to be professionally installed in a new venue for I might recommend something different than I would recommend for someone to do on their own to address an immediate need. It is two different situations and thus may relate to two different solutions.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 3, 2013)

House of Blues gets a Heritage 3000 at FOH. There's at least one example of a new install requiring analog. And if I'm doing a festival or even monitors I'll still take an analog console over any digital, no matter how well I know the console. I think with the rise of the computer age the amount of training on an analog vs digital console is really no different. I'm not really sure why this discussion is still going, though. The X32 is a better console in every area. It is at least as capable as the StudioLive and there's absolutely no reason to buy the Presonus instead of the Behringer (except those who just don't "trust" in Behringer). I've used both extensively; I own the 16.4.2 now and can't wait for the new Behringer stuff to come out so I can trade in.


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## museav (Mar 4, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> I'm not really sure why this discussion is still going, though. The X32 is a better console in every area. It is at least as capable as the StudioLive and there's absolutely no reason to buy the Presonus instead of the Behringer (except those who just don't "trust" in Behringer). I've used both extensively; I own the 16.4.2 now and can't wait for the new Behringer stuff to come out so I can trade in.


At least to me the issue is not which is the 'better' console since that is application specific but rather a matter of the ease of implementation and use in the specific application. For example what is currently connected to the XLR "Main Out L" on the Eurodesk would be connected to the XLR "Main Out Left" on the StudioLive and what is currently connected to the 1/4" "Aux Send 1" output would be connected to the 1/4" "Aux Outputs 1", pretty much a direct swap in terms of connectors and nomenclature likely making the physical swap much easier. There may also be similar factors for the operation, e.g. the knob labeled "Aux 1" controls the Aux 1 send level for both the Eurodesk and StudioLive.

Those are all issues that could be addressed by someone with the appropriate tools and equipment and the requisite knowledge or training, but if those are not available then anything making the physical and operational transition easier seems a potential advantage. 

Put simply, the vast majority of the time I would probably opt for the X32 over the StudioLive but this is one of those situations where there maybe be specific factors involved that suggest the StudioLive as a better fit.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 4, 2013)

Brad, I usually agree with your "spec for the application" mantra, but do you honestly think that the difference between an XLR and TRS output is really a reason to go with one console over the other? If there's no one around that can solder on a new connector then they could just buy an adapter. Both consoles do the same thing. If we were throwing an LS9 in the mix then we could say that it doesn't have recording options. You say there may be "specific factors involved that suggest the StudioLive as a better fit," but I can't come up with a single valid reason why someone would buy the Studiolive over the X32.


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## museav (Mar 5, 2013)

bishopthomas said:


> Brad, I usually agree with your "spec for the application" mantra, but do you honestly think that the difference between an XLR and TRS output is really a reason to go with one console over the other? If there's no one around that can solder on a new connector then they could just buy an adapter. Both consoles do the same thing. If we were throwing an LS9 in the mix then we could say that it doesn't have recording options. You say there may be "specific factors involved that suggest the StudioLive as a better fit," but I can't come up with a single valid reason why someone would buy the Studiolive over the X32.


As far as what I see as potential benefits of the StudioLive in this specific application:

Connectors and labeling more closely match their current mixer, thus simplifying physically changing mixers.
Factory channel processing libraries. I understand that Behringer may be working on something similar for the X32 products but I don't know for sure of or when that would be available.
Four subgroups that function the same as on their existing mixer without any programming required.
No layers.
Dedicated Aux and Effects sends more similar to their current mixer.
If you notice, several of those are directly related to making the transition easier and having to do so without having anyone experienced with a digital console involved.

Turning it around, what are the reasons for recommending the X32 in this situation? I can list a multitude of potential advantages of the X32 but most of those do not seem relevant here. Motorized faders and gain pots may be a major factor in some uses but I don't see that actually likely being an issue here. Don't see I/O expansion being relevant here since both mixers more than handle the existing snake. There is no mention of any personal monitor mix support being required. I like having DCAs but would they be used here? What would often be the advantages for the X32 just don't seem to apply here.

If they wanted to look at how the mixer might translate to use in the new facility in a year or if they were bringing in someone to train them then you are potentially looking at a different situation. But any outside assistance they have to pay for has apparently been rejected and there has been no discussion of other relevant changes or the future use.

The one potential advantage of the X32 that I do see is that it is currently available. As I mentioned early on that the StudioLive 32.4.2AI is not yet available yet and if they need something now then it may not even be an option. That also means that we do not yet know how actual 'street' pricing may compare, which could be another factor.

I think we have beat this to death but the only reason I did not stop long ago is emphasize the point to look at products based on the factors that are actually relevant to a situation and not based on factors that may not be relevant. I wanted to get people to think about what really matters and not just comparing specs and numbers.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 5, 2013)

museav said:


> I think we have beat this to death but the only reason I did not stop long ago is emphasize the point to look at products based on the factors that are actually relevant to a situation and not based on factors that may not be relevant. I wanted to get people to think about what really matters and not just comparing specs and numbers.



I certainly understand, and usually appreciate, where you're coming from. But I know that you know that we don't always get all the information up front, either in a forum or in person. It usually ends up that we're telling the client what the capabilities of the console are and they say, "Wow, that's cool, I never knew you could do that!" One of the biggest examples of that would be the ability to mix on an iPad. Do most people go out searching for a mixer that has remote mixing capability? No. But most don't even know that's an option. So when I say a benefit of the X32 is simple and seamless iPad integration and you argue that they didn't ask for that feature I would say that they probably didn't even know that it exists. Doesn't mean that that feature couldn't come in handy. 

As far as your list of StudioLive benefits, I would say that the only feasible one is no layers. Layers can certainly take some getting used to. The other elements you mentioned are really of no consequence, in my opinion. A change of a few connectors is hardly a reason to choose one console over the other. Of course, if it was all TRS inputs and you have a 32 channel XLR snake then it's a pain. But a few outputs is really not a reason to go with one console. We're not talking about X32 vs Mackie 1604 or a Venue, these two consoles are so similar that either one would be a decent enough choice. I just happen to think the X32 is a better solution for 99.9% of the time. And it happens to be less expensive.

In my opinion the X32 is easier to get around, makes iPad mixing easy, and just plain sounds better than the StudioLive. These opinions are from owning a StudioLive and using an X32 several times in different situations.


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## milemarker68 (Apr 30, 2018)

5 years later... does everyone have the same opinion? any updates?


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## themuzicman (Apr 30, 2018)

Are you looking at the 32.4.2AI or the newer StudioLive32? 

If it's the old one, and you're getting a killer deal on a used one then it beats an analog desk but not an X32. 

If you were comparing the current StudioLive32 I'd compare against an X32 and TF5 where the TF5 will win on ease of use, the X32 will win on price, and the StudioLive32 sits somewhere in-between. You see X32's everywhere these days, and the last time I saw a StudioLive of any generation in use was at a corporate event that needed multi tracking in like 2013. That being said, as with any purchase your use-case really matters. I also haven't seen any TF series anywhere, so take that for what it is. 

As for the older one -- I'd consider the iPad App/Laptop Editor an essential, not an extra - but I also almost exclusively use my laptop to set up my console when I'm forced to use any of these inexpensive small format mixers because of their clunky UI's. I really enjoy having visualization on my compressor/PEQ as well. For some reason no one is able to compete with Yamaha for ease of use in their UI's and that's really where these other mixers fail.


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## TimMc (May 2, 2018)

milemarker68 said:


> 5 years later... does everyone have the same opinion? any updates?



My opinion - don't buy a Presonus mixer unless you're heavily invested in other parts of the Presonus ecosphere.


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