# What is wrong with this pic V



## Mayhem (Dec 29, 2004)

We thought that we would post some pictures to generate discussion without any hints, tips or correct answers until we think that the time is right to do so. 

Here is the first picture - good luck!


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## PATech (Dec 29, 2004)

I'm not all that much of a lighting guy, but judging from the big tumor that's localized in one area, it looks like someone has touched the lamp with their bare hands. That leaves hand oils and residues on the lamp, causing it to weaken over time and eventually fail. We have a lamp that looks like this sitting next to the lighting tools in the shop at school to remind people not to touch lamps with their bare hands.

That's what seems to be wrong to me. Hopefully I'm right. I hope that everyone's having a wonderful holiday season.

--Anand


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## ccfan213 (Dec 29, 2004)

i also am not a lighting guy and you cannot see it in this picture well, but on the two lamps i gaffed to the booth wall a week ago that were like this to warn people it looked like the filaments somehow bent and touched that spot on the bulb.


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## soundman (Dec 29, 2004)

Ill third the idea of some one with gressey paws touching it.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Dec 29, 2004)

I think also that its due to someone touching the light. We don't have any of these backstage cause in 4 years noone has touched the light and caused it to do that, we do however have a iron pipe handing on the wall which does the same job as having the broken light there to warn people not to touch it lol.
~Nick


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## SuperCow (Dec 29, 2004)

Someone touched it, and the oils on their hand were transfered onto the quarts bulb. Quartz is used in theatrical lamps because it has a much higher resistance to heat, which is necessary fro the high-output tungsten filaments.

When the oil came into contact with the bulb it stayed there. Oil will heat up quite rapidly, especially when the heat source is so near and so potent. As a result, one protion of the lam was far hotter than the rest of it. This caused the quartz to become unstable, since all the heat energy was concentrated in one spot, and the matter in one area was moving much faster than that surrounding it. When matter is moving faster, it also becomes more malleable (like warm plastic).

The area within the lamp is filled with hydrogen, rather than air because hydrogen expands less under the influence of heat. However, this is not to say that it does not expand. So, when one portion of the quartz was weakened, all of the pressure exerted by the expanded hydrogen was exacted on that spot, causing it to burst, in the manner depicted in the picture.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Dec 29, 2004)

Wow thats really complicated ... where did you learn all of that? They don't tlel us all that when we're learning it, all they say is that the light will expload and kill us and if the light doesn't kill us them the other techies will because the bulb for most of our lights is 40 bucks to change.
~Nick


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## SuperCow (Dec 29, 2004)

I learned the hard way. Back when I was in the seventh grade, I touched a bulb, and the TD saw me do it. So, she told me all about why that's a bad thing to do. That was supplemented with stuff I learned in chemistry and physics. So, now I'm the one who gives the "don't touch the bulbs" lecture.


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## SketchyCroftPpl (Dec 29, 2004)

Ha Ha nice ... its cool that you could start tech in 7th grade. Our school doesn't allow us to untill 9th really. In 8th we're allowed to go to special workcalls for middlers and build small pits of set and two of us can run the assemblys that we have every week. Other than that you have to wait till HS which isn't alot of fun. I've given that lecture once or twice to Frosh but never in that much detail ... now I can scare them and make them think I'm wicked smart lol. Thanks
~Nick


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## propmonkey (Dec 29, 2004)

we have a collection of disfigured lamps that we keep backstage to show classes and new techies. we have one EGJ that is like a rainbow colors, its blue, red, silver, gold, and black. how could that happen?


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## squigish (Dec 29, 2004)

SuperCow said:


> The area within the lamp is filled with hydrogen, rather than air because hydrogen expands less under the influence of heat. However, this is not to say that it does not expand. So, when one portion of the quartz was weakened, all of the pressure exerted by the expanded hydrogen was exacted on that spot, causing it to burst, in the manner depicted in the picture.



It's not hydrogen, it's a halogen gas. I'm not sure which one, but my guess would be florine. 

Are you sure about the expanding less under the influence of heat thing, or was that just an educated guess? It's quite different than the explanation that I heard for why the lamp is filled with halogen. 

A standard incandesant light bulb consists of a tungeston filament surrounded by an inert gas (usually nitrogen or one of the noble gasses) and encased in a glass envelope. As electricity passes through the tungeston, some of it escapes and is deposited on the envelope. You can see the effect of this on some incandescant light bulbs that are near the ends of their lives, especially on the higher-wattage ones, in the form of black deposits on the inside of the glass. The result of this is shorter lamp life and reduced light output near the end of the lamp life. 

The solution is to fill the lamp with a halogen gas, which is very reactive. The halogen reacts with the tungeston as it is escaping from the filament and then deposits it back on the filament, instead of on the envelope. This lengthens the life of the lamp and also helps keep a more constant light output throughout the life of the lamp. 

As far as the need for quartz instead of glass, I don't know if it is something about the reaction between the tungeston and halogen gas that generates so much heat, or if it's just the fact that the lamp is burning at more than 500 Watts. My guess would be the former, because before they invented tungeston-halogen lamps, they used regular incandescants in the theater, and they were made of glass and large and spherical to dissapate the heat. 

Another advantage using quartz instead of glass is that because quartz is so much more heat-resistant than glass, you can put it closer to the filament, making the lamp smaller. This makes it easier to put the filament of the lamp precisely in the focal point of whatever type of reflector you're using, and results in more efficiant use of the light. 

Oh, and incidentially, I have a lamp at my school that has bulged out on one side but not ruptured, and the filament is bent into the bulge, but the lamp still works. We're saving it for when we need a lamp really badly just as a substitute until we can get another one. Maybe I'll take a picture of it next week and post it.


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## SuperCow (Dec 29, 2004)

You're right on both counts. It is halogen, that was my bad. And the other was an educated guess (which I think is true, but I'll have to check).

However, I do stand by my opinion that quartz is used because of its resistance to heat. I don't understand what you said about the bulb operating at over 500W, could you elaborate on that?


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## squigish (Dec 29, 2004)

Quartz's higher heat resistance is precisely why it is used, the operating at over 500W thing was just my speculation as to why the Tungeston-halogen lamps get so hot, whether it has to do with the reaction between the tungeston and the halogen, or the high wattage of the lamp.


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## Sombra2 (Dec 29, 2004)

it the same with car bulbs, a teacher gave us a halogen car bulb to test the resitance. little did i know, i get yelled at by my friend who is a car fanatic how i can't touch the bulb or it you'll add chemicals to the bulb to blow the blub. lucky the teacher never planned on using the bulb.


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## lxdeptnz (Dec 30, 2004)

*If you do touch it...*

If you are unfortunate to touch it, get a soft lint-free cloth and clean it all over with meths (isopropyl alcohol may also work). This will remove the grease from your skin and prevent the bulb from blowing up... If neccesary I have often worn gloves (cotton) when changing bulbs... this because it is a PITA to go back down the scaff tower and find some meths, and clean a bulb at the top of the scaff again 

HTH
David

PS I would also put my money on someone touched the bulb with bare fingers.


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## ccfan213 (Dec 30, 2004)

do rubber gloves work?


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## lxdeptnz (Dec 30, 2004)

I'm not 100% sure... i guess they would, if clean, however I've never tried them


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## propmonkey (Dec 30, 2004)

as long as they dont have that powdery substance on them.


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## soundman (Dec 30, 2004)

I use the wraper they come in.


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## lxdeptnz (Dec 30, 2004)

All very well, except sone of the bulbs I get (over here in NZ) dont have wrappers but yes


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## Mayhem (Dec 30, 2004)

Are we getting side tracked here?


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## lxdeptnz (Dec 30, 2004)

sorry, yes... like i said, my money is on he fact that someone touched it and got some skin grease on the envelope.


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## soundman (Dec 30, 2004)

I thought the point of the questions was to promote disscusion handling of bulbs is very much related to the picture.


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## SuperCow (Dec 30, 2004)

Touché! I agree, that is all about prevention of the picture. That is, assuming that the vast majority of us are right in our guesses as to what happened.

For my part, we just use the foam covering that the bulb comes in in the box. It's always worked.


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## ccfan213 (Dec 30, 2004)

yes i always use the covering, but occasionally there is a problem with a lamp that is already in a fixture but is not burnt out and rather than searching around for an old wrapper it would be easier to have a glove handy.


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## Mayhem (Dec 30, 2004)

Yes you are correct - these posts are designed to encourage discussion around the topic. However, touching a lamp is not the only cause of lamp failure. My point was not to stop the discussion. It is important that people know this point but is it really worthy of a couple of pages worth of posts? After all how many different ways or times can one say "don't touch the lamps” or “clean them if you do"?). 

The whole point about posting a picture without any supportive descriptions is to get people looking at the full range of possible causes. We don’t care if they are wrong and certainly will not laugh or ridicule someone for posting such a response. The whole point is to stimulate discussion around the topic and get people to look at other possible causes.

A few pointers to assist you in thinking about this one:

How does a lamp work?
What components ccomprise lamp?
Is there any damage or change in any of these components in this picture when compared to a new lamp?
Also – lamps require other things to be present for them to work.

Hopefully this will set you on track to think about the whole picture.


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## otto (Jan 4, 2005)

Isopropyl works just fine; usually, touching lamps isn't a problem, as most come packaged in special thin mattress-foamy type stuff, and you can install them without really needing to touch them with bare hands. 

If anyone's got the time (and money to throw away) and is bored enough, you should try greasing up the lamps in special patterns, to see if they'll look especially cool when they pop. I've always wanted to try that. It's like the less artistic, klutzy-tech version of blown glass, I'll bet.


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## Mayhem (Jan 4, 2005)

Tell me something - what happens to the filament of a lamp when it blows due to a greasy finger print?


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## soundman (Jan 4, 2005)

Does it bend/blow towards the spot? Its been a while since I have seen one and even they I just toss them and replace, unless they are cool looking.


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## 9voltnewbie (Jan 9, 2005)

man get off the whole toughing the lamp thing already. lamps blow for other reasons to you know.

i cnat think of more than to much volts and bumping them when they are hot which i have done a few times with fresnells when the slider gets stuck 

i am pretty sure that it is not fingering the lamp in this case. Mayhem has sort of hinted to it above.

My guess is that it copped a voltage spike


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## Mayhem (Jan 9, 2005)

Well done to 9voltnewbie  

Fingering the lamp was not the cause in this case. Also, my question about the filament deflecting away or towards the finger print (in the case of a touched lamp) was simply a red herring. The intention was to get you to look at the picture once again. If all had gone to script, "Where, oh where is the filament?" would have been the cry.

So, in light of this elimination of the much fancied finger prints being the cause, I will let you ponder this (remember, the filament has gone* in the lamp in the original picture) and provide you with some additional pictures to wet your inquisitive appetites.

Don't give up now - lets hear some new theories.










* and no it wasn’t abducted by aliens


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## ship (Jan 9, 2005)

Of note on photo #4 is that it still worked beyond the point the filament had bubbled thru the glass and only failed when the filament finally got stretched too far.

Primary question related on this is the center large incandescent bulb. There is no filament, just a lot of filament hangers and welded blobs at points the filament attached to. You will also note that incandescent lamps with soft lime glass instead of quartz glass are un-effected by touching thus this was not the cause. 

You will also note by the variety of failures, that there are many differing examples - far too many to simply say as with the main photo, it's a lamp failure... someone must have touched it.

From photo #5, identify what the lamps are left to right and row by row, than the probable cause of either the failure or removal from service. Nine smaller lamps, two larger lamps.

Beyond all of this, there is still a very specific similarity of the failure in the large lamp, the first FEL lamp posted about and lamp #4. The large incandescent lamp shows much of what's going on in this condition. Why don't the other lamps also show this given the same possible cause. That's of course given #4 lamp suffers from the same probable problem as the FEL and large lamp as opposed to being more similar to lamp #9 given type and location.

Good luck. If of any help, the Ushio website should have a article by their "lamp doctor" about failures in lamps.

From the photos, #2-5 are the same basic lamp as is #7&8 the same and in this case a arc source instead of filament type, with #9 being the large incandescent one and ten the large halogen one off the photo image.


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## MOONLIGHTING (Jan 26, 2005)

Before I check out the Lamp Doctor, I'd say another cause is shock or vibration. If someone was focusing a light FOH and another crew member was hanging another light, or scenery bumps an electric while lamps are hot, it could over stress the posts holding the filament in place.
Not sure on the discolored lamps, though I'll be the first to admit I should know since I've come across them several times. Perhaps it is the coating from the filament, but I'm not sure how/why it would spead onto the envelope.
I haven't worked with Arc lamps much....
-Mike


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## MOONLIGHTING (Jan 27, 2005)

BTW-
Look back at the first picture at the beginning of the thread......
am I really overworked or does that blown lamp look like the robot from Futurama?
-Mike


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## ship (Jan 27, 2005)

Sleep is always good, but to an artist, seeing what is not there is also useful.


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## Radman (Jan 27, 2005)

Wow! It's Bender!

For pic 5:
FCM; 4x FDB; EHD,EHG or EHF; and what looks like maybe DPW, but I don't think it is the same. Looks similar though.

Next row:

2x HMI 1200(?); and maybe an EVR or Q250E14? Hard to tell really.


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## ship (Jan 27, 2005)

“For pic 5: 
FCM; 4x FDB; EHD,EHG or EHF; and what looks like maybe DPW, but I don't think it is the same. Looks similar though. 

Next row: 

2x HMI 1200(?); and maybe an EVR or Q250E14? Hard to tell really.”



Q250E14??? what are you writing your own lamp codes now or is it a trick question? I'm aware of only one Europian screw based lamp at 250w and it's proper description would be Q250CL/E14. Very rare lamp and not a common one that could either be it or the E-11 based EVR above. More common to name amongst many wattage in this lamp base type would be something like a Q250/MC. Still good effort in figuring it out.

Ah’ someone brave enough to take the challenge! Much less that studied some into lamps!

Your scale is a bit off given the #4 lamp is most likely in un expanded form either a T-3 or T-4 in bulb size. Given a FDB is 6.9/16" long and 1.5Kw, it’s unlikely given if it has a T-4 bulb size, than this being out of scale does not work once you note bulb #4's size as opposed to the rest of the double ended lamps in length. T-4 = ½" in dia. Also, most lamps are for use in common equipment so expect that the bulk of bad ones will be simple to figure out.

I should hint that most of the lamps above have a 4.9/16" MOL otherwise and were found in Altman or Colortran Ground Cyc fixtures.

This is on the other hand is a EHG lamp, and good guess in scaling it’s T-5 or T-6 bulb dia. Verses that of a defiantly T-6 or T-8 FEL or FLK which are possibly slightly longer in MOL.

Good guess on the DPW!!!. Nope, this was a 1.5Kw lamp, but still good guess. What lamp(s) could it than be? Take it for a given that if it could be a DPW, than the user probably wanted to maximize the life for output. This should hone you in. Forget what fixture it’s used on if you want extra credit, but I assure myself of being lucky in retaining this lamp once I got the customer his replacement. I neither stocked replacements, nor had ever seen this specific bulb before. Talk about seeing things in a bulb image.... anyone see a standard KilRoy was there shape to the opposing end of the filament shooting out of the glass here in other photos? 

This sucking in of the opposing side of the in this case a incandescent lamp is what you would see also in a halogen lamp given the same type of glass used as a very similar and important example of what's going on here to the first of this question's lamp. Note in both instances the filament size hole in the glass forming a hole around it as if a bullet shot thru the lamp and the glass held to it's after effects. Given the vioence of such an action, one shoud be assured that the warming effects of touching a bulb would not have the same effect. Much less given the soft lime glass of the second example of the incandescent lamp, you can touch it as much as you want and the oil from your fingers won't effect the lamp. This is important to know about as otherwise an observation others earlier built upon as a standard problem possibly in this photo shown to be the cause otherwise.

HMI 1200 as my most favorite game I play with techies looking for lamps, limits the lamp to one of five choices including the PAR 64 version by the description you gave.  Normally I say one of about 12 in necessitating the tech person walks back up stairs and figures out what lamp they want, but in actuality there is only five versions of this. Such a walk to figure out what they want helps to solve the below problem in the field, much less offers me more time to finish working on what I’m doing. 
A hint is that it’s both a common lamp on high technology gear and that it’s name is about to change to an even harder one to remember. If you are hanging upside down on a truss in asking someone to get you a spare HMI 1200, given I stock three different types and a fourth is noted on our spare lamp page, you might just get the wrong lamp sent to you by someone that knows less than you. 

Partial credit but no credit for this lamp. Refine your very expensive lamp a bit further. “You go back... you not ready to swim with the big fish...” I also say to the techie. Note of course the second version of it in the only time I have ever seen a pre-exploded lamp in this kind of condition. What do you think caused the second “HMI 1200" lamp to get like this? Bonus points also if you can say the five other description codes for this lamp by other vendors for this same lamp given multi-vapor lamps don’t have ANSI codes to them thus there is similar lettering but no standardized lamp code.

Last lamp, good also the EVR in the quiz. Very well done!!!

Over all, right on just about all lamps except the scale of bulb dia. on the double ended ones. If of help, compare their length before becoming a sort of arc lamp  with the EHG in line with them for MOL they are most similar to. 

After that, very impressive, when are you going to send an application so I can get an assistant? I’m glad someone took the challenge, everyone should have as it’s but a part for making things work especially lighting guys should be able to figure out. Far too often the writing as to what a lamp is wears off with heat. Than what are you going to do beyond figure it out to make it work?

Missed out in the last lamp as shown in photo's one, two and three. This should be an easy one.


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## JahJahwarrior (Jan 27, 2005)

well with school and stuff, and with all the questions that I didn't know as much about, I haven't looked into the QOTD topics recently, but I skimmed through most of this and read thorougly Ships posts a few times. I also read the USHIO Faq which was as good an article I could find on their site about lamps in general. It said that lamps will sometimes fail because as the filamentheats up--being in use for many hours at a time at full power--it will get too hot and sag. It said the sagging cause the filament to bubble out--my guess is that as the filament gets closer, even the heat resistant quartz is heated up too much and melts enough to bubble out, in this case both the sag and the bubble should be pulled straight down by gravity, so to determine if that is what caused the failure, I think you could determine that by looking at the lamp in the fixture and seeing where the bubble is. I might be wrong though. Eventually it lookslike either the glass gets too hot and part of it actually develops a hole, or the filament stretches too much and tears. It seems that both of these are causes of failures in these lamps- some seem to have holes in the bubble while others don't. My guess is the holes are where the bubble popped, the ones without is where the filament broke. 

And I have a question with a proposed answer that is possibly wrong--why do blown lamps, such as that big one with the mogul base in the pictures here, often have crap all ove the inside? is that the undeposited tungsten, that suddenly is deposited wherever when the halogen cycle ends, when the lamp blows? 

ship, you make me think. thanks!


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## Radman (Jan 28, 2005)

I'll send my application once I get out of high school! :wink: 

The DPW one is tough, I'm assuming it came out of either a slide/film projector or maybe an old Strong Trouperette or an Altspot? One thing that is making this difficult is the variances between manufacturers.

Thinking maybe HTI300 on the other one...


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## ship (Jan 28, 2005)

Go to college first, otherwise I can't as thoroughly abuse you OJT.

Thinking maybe HTI300 on the other one...

Which one of three versions of the HTI 300? In any case, I hope the photo does not show a T-16mm thru T-17.5mm sized lamp

Much less this last lamp is not a SFc10-4 type of lamp base. If of any help, this last lamp is not a multi-vapor lamp type.


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## Radman (Jan 28, 2005)

Ok, so if I understand, you are looking for the specific model of the arc lamps? And also hoping in saying that the "last lamp" you were talking about was the one not in #5.

In that case this looks the closest: Osram HMI1200WS Lamp.

Here's my first stab at the huge mogul bi-post looking beast: looks like a CYX (Q2000/4CL/BP)

The DPW was right under my nose. I disregarded the 1.5kW after you said long life... the answer might be now the DTJ-120V, but if I understand, the lamp I'm looking for is SUPPOSED to have that green stuff in it. Hmph.

On a side note: Has anyone ever heard of the narrow midsection of a CWZ being wrapped with like twine or thread or something? We have a bunch of lamps like this for our 8" Fresnelites. The stuff looks to be made of fiberglass or something.

I would also like to mention that I have not seen the HMI or any discharge lamp in person ever in my life. Most of my research to match model numbers is done by scanning my Stage Technology catalog's lamp page for a lamp with the right base and picking the ones that sound right and put them into a google image search. I then match the pics and descriptions. That is how I came up with that odd Q250E14 number.


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## ship (Jan 28, 2005)

Think you confuse me talking about the lamp you call a CYX with my thinking it’s what you called a HTI 300. 

In any case... correct, correct on the HMI 1200w/S and CYX lamps in style at least. Actually it’s a DPY but similar. Just 5Kw instead of 2Kw. Same base type. The 1200w/S is correct on the other hand for the arc source lamps. 

DTA or DTJ would be a good answer on the 1,500w lamp. Short of looking up the PO’ or removing the lamp from the wall, I don’t remember. No further guessing on the double ended halogen lamps?

Given Ushio is probably the only company still making the CWZ, and it’s picture does not have anything like this wrapping, I don’t have a reference.
Is this wrapping in the more narrow section between lamp base and where the filament area of the bulb baloons out? Could be some form of heat shielding and support. Them’s some old Fresnels you have if they use this lamp.


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## Radman (Jan 28, 2005)

So far I have:
HMI 1200W / GS
HMI 1200W / SE
HMI 1200W / S
HMI 1200W / XS
Thats all I got. I think that's what you're looking for...


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## Radman (Jan 28, 2005)

ship said:


> ...Is this wrapping in the more narrow section between lamp base and where the filament area of the bulb baloons out? Could be some form of heat shielding and support. Them’s some old Fresnels you have if they use this lamp.



Yup, and they probably are old, too. Ok. 

1st two & 4th longer quartz appear frosted so FGT-120V, 3rd clear so FFT.

How's that?


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## ship (Jan 28, 2005)

All RSC lamps shown except for the first example are 4.11.16" long FDN or FHN lamps. The first short one respectively to the EHG photo in otherwise disqualifying the lamps almost similar in length to it was probably a EHR or Q200/T3 lamp in being only 3.1/8" long.

Show the part number to the HMI 1200w/XS as a direct challenge as otherwise XS is just a term for the equivolent of a Philips P-3 pinch seal technology by use and not shown in lamp description code or a valad lamp given otherwise the HMI 1200 is long gone before XS technology came about.

Not a lamp that exists. - show me it's part number or provide your data. Overall as above, good try overall! In this time spent on lamp specs, I trust you are really leaning at least some about them above the sandard tech person that says the fixture type and expects the lamp provider will give the best lamp for the fixture, much less know what they are talking about. This is good.

HMI 1200w/SE
HMI 1200w/S
HMI 1200w/GS
HMI 1200w/PAR

and HMI 1200 itself as a discontinued lamp that once existed in some form by way of product literature on it but without part number as similar to the HMI 1200w/GS otherwise to at least some extent:
HMI 1200	Osram	(?Disc.) CL, DE. MH,	1.2Kw/224v	T-64mm	34mm arc gap	MOL 470mm	S25.5 base (CRI 90) Burn Horz ±15°	6,000°K	1,150,000Lum	500hr

How does this differ from the HMI 1200w/GS in a very major way making it still a very different lamp type in a very specific way meaning it simply won't fit in a follow spot?

Other HMI 1200w/S lamp types for use in a Martin Mac 2K??? I still count in being even more specific yet, eight description codes for this lamp amongst six companies one of which is now a sub company of another in making it perhaps seven by way of code given they don't go back to doing their own direct marketing in making it again eight. Also given another manufacturer of this HMI 1200w/S lamp is not another brand's of lamp they buy until they get their own on the market - only with their own lamp code to it.


Good luck, in at leat getting half the list of proposed description codes, description codes TBA as the new standard or discontinued for the moment but very proper codes for this lamp still. This is a five star challenge in that unless you subscribe to the press releases or industry talk, at least half the hints given won't mean enough to spark a hint.


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## Radman (Jan 29, 2005)

Wait, do you want us to find one dealer description of each lamp or the eight different descriptions of every lamp?


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## Radman (Jan 29, 2005)

HMI 1200w/SE (single ended):
From BulB Connection
Item: Osram Lamp 54067; Avg Life: 750; K Temp: 6000; Lumens: 110000; CRI: 90; Finish: Clear;
Orientation: Universal; Base Type G38; Watts 1200 Watts; Volts 100 Volts;
Max Overall Length (MOL): 7.874 in (200.0 mm); Light Center Length (LCL): 4.213 in (107.0 mm)

HMI 1200w/S (short):
From BulB Connection
Item: Osram Lamp 54088; Avg Life: 750; K Temp: 6000; Lumens: 110000; CRI: 90; Finish: Clear;
Orientation: Universal; Base Type SFc10-4; Watts 1200 Watts; Volts 100 Volts

HMI 1200w/GS:
From BulB Connection
Item: Osram Lamp 54066; Avg Life: 750; K Temp: 6000; Lumens: 110000; CRI: 90; Finish: Clear;
Orientation: Universal; Base Type SFc15-5; Watts 1200 Watts; Volts 100 Volts

HMI 1200w/PAR:
From Vantage Lighting, Inc.
Watts: 1200W; Volts: 100V; Base: G38; Description: PAR64 6000K; Manufacturer: Osram

HMI 1200w (disc.):
From Vantage Lighting, Inc.
Watts: 1200W; Volts: 100V; Base: SFC 15.5-6; Description: Sleeve; Manufacturer: Wolfram


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## ship (Jan 30, 2005)

The challenge was not about the above lamps, it was about the HMI 1200XS in question. But in citing your references it's good practice in general as if you make a mistake that mistake is shown as to what misled you.


Vantage is incorrect in saying it's discontinued as this lamp never will have been called what they call it, much less Wolfram still makes the lamp. 

Instead with Wolfram they call it the 1200 it is comperable to the HMI 1200w/GS but with it's own unique color temperature and output for good or bad in while it will work, it will not look the same.

Vantage might not sell this lamp any more which is where you get into problems with using secondary sources for your information instead of the primary ones: http://www.vanltg.com/ verses Daymax/Wolfram/ORC/Perkin Elmer (Lamp Mfr..) http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/ . 

Given it was incorrectly typed in at Vantatge as a HMI 1200, Wolfram still makes this lamp, Vantage it would seem just does not stock it any longer thus it's discontinued for them only.

1200	Wolfram	CL, DE. MH	1.2Kw/100v	T-27mm	12mm	MOL 180mm	SFc M4	(CRI >90)	5,600°K	110,000 Lum	750


This is what the Osram HMI 1200 will have looked like. Chances are it was the first lamp in the HMI 1200 series and given the data I have for it, it's no wonder why it is long gone.

HMI 1200	Osram	(?Disc.) CL, DE. MH,	1.2Kw/224v	T-64mm	34mm	MOL 470mm	S25.5	(CRI 90) Burn Horz ±15°	6,000°K	1,150,000Lum	500





My real challenge was to cite the other brands of equivolent to a HMI 1200w/S lamp are on the market. Similar to this Vantage lamp cited that is roughly the same as the HMI 1200w/GS in different companies making the same basic lamp but calling it different things. There is seven companies making their own version of a HMI 1200w/GS now that you have two. Who are the other five

This in expanding the who also makes the Mac 2K lamp question.


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## Radman (Jan 30, 2005)

I think some other people here need to give this a shot! I'm going to wait a while, maybe a couple days and see if anyone else can come up with something!


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