# Urban Roll Down Security Grate



## jowens (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey everybody!
Kids at our school are so excited to be putting on In The Heights this year!  A major element is the security roll down grate that you'd see in front of a closed shop in NYC. Any ideas on how to make something like this, or where to find something used? At the end of the show, the great comes down with a mural painted on it...any thoughts? 
Thanks all!
~Joe


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## sk8rsdad (Dec 6, 2012)

It could be done with painted fabric and a sound effect if that's what the budget can handle. You could also glue muslin to wooden slats if the door needs to be more rigid. A steel door is going to be very heavy and require a torsion spring or some sort of counter-weight mechanism. You might find a local supplier with a google search. Depending on the how the rest of the set is constructed, you might get away with a painted flat that hides behind another part of the set and flies in, if there's no need for the public to see it actually unroll.


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## Van (Dec 7, 2012)

I built a gate like this for a production of "Little Shop". It was over Mushniks door at the beginning, then the walls rolled away and the door rolled up right on cue. I used a Garage door openerto turn a drom that I made out of sonotube. I bought thin black nylon webbing and laid out three pieces on 16" centers. < The grate was 3'-6" wide. > I hot glued strips of 2" wide 1/4" luanonto the strips leaving about 1/2" between each strip. Then I came back and hot glued 1/4" dowell in the open space between the slats.< this wrks as a visual for the hinge between each panel and buys you wiggle room when the thing rolls up.> Then the fun began!
You flip the whole thing over on toip of a piece foam. With a wide crown stapler set to low pressure, you shoot 2 staples through the luan into the nylon, one staple through the dowel. Oh, 1/2" staples at least. THEN you flip the whole ting over again on top of a concrete floor. Now you pound over the legs of the staples and put a dab more hot glue on each. Take the Top end of the nylon and attach it in three places with srews to the Sonotube. Fiddle with the settings of the limit switches on the garage door opener et viola' Instant grate!


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## kicknargel (Dec 9, 2012)

It wouldn't roll, but if it could fly or track up and down, you could build a frame and cover it in corrugated plastic roofing material, painted as desired.


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Store front roll up doors*

I will be building sets for my daughters high school production of In The Heights and I need ideas for roll up doors. They want them to be able to be opened. Has anyone come across something like this before? Is it something to build from scratch or use existing ones? I can't them too wide. Thanks


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## MarshallPope (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

Do they have to actually roll up or is there sufficient headroom to hide them vertically?


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

There *may* be room to hide them vertically. I think if I slipped them behind the 2nd story of the building that might work. But what do you make them out of? Ideally, it would be a segmented metal grate that you see over store fronts. But there might be room for artistic license


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## BillConnerFASTC (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

there's nothing like the real thing to look like - well - the real thing. Unless you can do them painted on a flat - ugh - i think it would be hard to reproduce the look for much less than the real thing.

Metal bars and links or coiling doors that look corrugated? Get a picture of what you want.


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

I get it - the real thing is better. But I worry about opening it and metal just makes a lot of noise on a small stage. Here is the NY production. Obviously I can't approach this level, but I'd like to come close, if possible.


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## Robert (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

Some materials that come to mind: 
Corrugated metal roofing or get plastic versions in white and use that. Making it roll up is really a problem. 
Real doors would weigh too much for me to consider mounting at a high school with minimal help, but maybe the local roll-up door company will loan or donate some used ones. Would require lots of structure. Worth a shot for free. 
See if you can get oversized roller shades and paint them to get a roll up effect. Expect to pay a premium.
PVC pipe cut in half length wise could be mounted on muslin and attached to a drum to roll. Still a lot of mechanisms to get to work right. 
I like the idea of flying them out behind the wall. Just remember to think about proper structure and safety before you get too involved with rigging, flying, and lawsuits.


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## Les (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

Maybe you could use something like this:







According to Walmart, they are called PVC Roll-Up Blinds. You can get them in large sizes and they roll up and down like a roll-up door. I'd think that the right paint treatment, antiquing, and a well-cued sound effect could get you where you want to be. Best part is that they move like a metal door. 

Alternately, you could re-purpose an old projection screen, but it might be too flimsy to really be believable when people are interacting with it.


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## MarshallPope (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

This is all suggested with the idea that it wouldn't actually have to roll up.

-You might want to play with plastic corrugated roofing material painted silver or maybe some of the grated fluorescent troffer diffusers. 
-If you can get away with the folding-to-the-side type, something like this:
may not be too hard to fake with strips of wood. I think there may even be some strips of vinyl that I've seen in maybe the fencing or decking section that could be used for that. 
-Maybe you could even simply find a lattice that could work.


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

Some great ideas. I like the roll up shade - if they can be made to look like metal. I may try some tests with that. I may still hit up some businesses for corrugated metal since I need some awnings as well. They would be small enough that weight would not be a problem. This is such a great forum. I appreciate the help.


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## Les (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

This might get ya closer to that metallic look:




Good luck!


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

That sideways movement would eliminate the weight over the actors heads. I like that idea. It would still look correct. I guess I should get with the director and see what she is envisioning. And then determine what and all volunteer crew can come up with. I say all volunteer, but these people are veteran volunteers who do work at all the local theaters in the area. That's a huge advantage.


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## jcuempire (Sep 9, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*


Les said:


> This might get ya closer to that metallic look:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



From 50 feet away, it'll look pretty real, I figure


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## NickVon (Sep 10, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*


Les said:


> Maybe you could use something like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is essentially what we used. Picked it up at Homedepot if I recall. We found one that actually had thicker bands with small bands in between the thicker ones. We wrapped it around a length of sono tube, and mounted the "drum" behind a small curved shell.


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## jcuempire (Sep 10, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

And if you replace the string with a small chain, it would look and even sound the part. This is great. I'm going to test it out. Thanks


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## JohnD (Sep 10, 2013)

*Re: Store front roll up doors*

I knew this was a familiar question, of course one mans roll up door is another mans roll down door.
Here is another thread about the same show:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/scenery-props-rigging/30463-urban-roll-down-security-grate.html
I really like post #3 from Van.


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## jcuempire (Sep 10, 2013)

Van said:


> I built a gate like this for a production of "Little Shop". It was over Mushniks door at the beginning, then the walls rolled away and the door rolled up right on cue. I used a Garage door openerto turn a drom that I made out of sonotube. I bought thin black nylon webbing and laid out three pieces on 16" centers. < The grate was 3'-6" wide. > I hot glued strips of 2" wide 1/4" luanonto the strips leaving about 1/2" between each strip. Then I came back and hot glued 1/4" dowell in the open space between the slats.< this wrks as a visual for the hinge between each panel and buys you wiggle room when the thing rolls up.> Then the fun began!
> You flip the whole thing over on toip of a piece foam. With a wide crown stapler set to low pressure, you shoot 2 staples through the luan into the nylon, one staple through the dowel. Oh, 1/2" staples at least. THEN you flip the whole ting over again on top of a concrete floor. Now you pound over the legs of the staples and put a dab more hot glue on each. Take the Top end of the nylon and attach it in three places with srews to the Sonotube. Fiddle with the settings of the limit switches on the garage door opener et viola' Instant grate!




You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of this, would you? I need the same thing for our In The Heights. I understand up to the foam part. What is the foam doing? Thanks


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## JohnD (Sep 10, 2013)

You might send a private message to Van for more info. As far as the foam, as I understand it, it is so you can staple thru the backing webbing thru the luan strips and allow the staples to penetrate all the way, then you flip over the whole thing on a concrete floor and flatten the protruding staple ends. 
My thoughts on the project, perhaps instead of the nylon webbing strips, use canvas as a full size backer, more glue surface. Instead of the 1/4 inch dowels between the strips, perhaps foam backer rod.
1/4" Closed Cell Backer Rod - 100 ft Roll - Amazon.com
The 3/8 inch might read better from a distance.
Helpful Hint #1, If you don't have a good local source for canvas, try the canvas drop cloth available at big box and paint stores, usually very good pricing.
Helpful Hint #2, Another money saver, especially considering the volatile price of luan thin plywood is to keep an eye out at your local Habitat for Humanity Restore for wood paneling. Both the hardboard type with the printed finish or the plywood type. You can use the back if the grooves get in the way.


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## jcuempire (Sep 11, 2013)

JohnD said:


> You might send a private message to Van for more info. As far as the foam, as I understand it, it is so you can staple thru the backing webbing thru the luan strips and allow the staples to penetrate all the way, then you flip over the whole thing on a concrete floor and flatten the protruding staple ends.
> My thoughts on the project, perhaps instead of the nylon webbing strips, use canvas as a full size backer, more glue surface. Instead of the 1/4 inch dowels between the strips, perhaps foam backer rod.
> 1/4" Closed Cell Backer Rod - 100 ft Roll - Amazon.com
> The 3/8 inch might read better from a distance.
> ...



Yes, we just bought some luan at another theater that I work with and it was not close to cheap. Thanks for explaining process. It makes more sense now. I just wasn't picturing it somehow. I'm going run these ideas by the director and see what she thinks. Thanks to everyone for their help


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## BrianWolfe (Sep 13, 2013)

We worked on the original set. The main one was a real steel door which was re engineered to work for the show. There were other doors that were just for looks and did not operate. Those we vacuum formed and I still have the molds and use them regularly for in inexpensive alternative to the real thing. The molds are simple and were made form a base cap moulding and half rounds. It would be possible to cut off the ends and roll the plastic up around a tube. Probably simpler to just make a simple canvas drop on a roller and paint it to look like a steel door.




You could also make a tambour door, like a roll top desk or appliance garage doors , and glue wood slats to canvas and put that on a roller.


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## jcuempire (Sep 13, 2013)

Thank you. They are beautiful. I may try the tambour idea. It depends on how many the director wants. It's not like we are going to be overflowing with parent volunteers! I would love to be able to vacuum form things. Props, scenery, all kinds of stuff. It seems like a great tool. I have to find a loop hole in the budget somewhere that I can sneak that into.


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## patrickh (Sep 15, 2013)

We used the blinds that Les suggested as a security door in Avenue Q and it looked fantastic. It looked real and it could be rolled up and all! Definitely check into that. The only suggestion is be sure to have a very sturdy one with a secure way of mounting it.


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## jcuempire (Sep 16, 2013)

patrickh said:


> We used the blinds that Les suggested as a security door in Avenue Q and it looked fantastic. It looked real and it could be rolled up and all! Definitely check into that. The only suggestion is be sure to have a very sturdy one with a secure way of mounting it.



I am going to try it as a test. Paint one up and let people view it from the seats. 

I can't say enough about this forum. You professional people are such a huge help to us part-timer / volunteer types. You save us from expensive mistakes and / or embarrasment. Though I still manage to wrangle a few of them every show! It is greatly appreciated. Thank you


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## BSchend (Aug 24, 2016)

So in addition to my fire escapes from the other thread, I also have to make an additional roll door (we already have one real metal one that was donated). I'm thinking of using Van's idea of construction, but to move it more like a roll top desk than a roll up door. Less moving parts is always better in my book. I think once painted it should give a pretty realstic look.

The theory is simple, just make two tracks on both sides of the opening, slide the ends of your "door" in and voila. The concern is will the span be flexible enough that it will bend and slide out of the tracks. So I think I came up with a solution and wondered what you all thought.

Take pvc pipe and cut a full length slit in the side (make it look like a C). Use bolts attached to the edges of the "door" with the hex end inserted between the gap in the pvc. My idea is that it will work alot like T-track you find on table saws and work benches. I'm assuming I'll have to fine tune the size of the "gap", but that should be easily handled by adding a washer to the screws I use to attach the pvc (bigger the washer, the wider the gap will be as I tighten down the screw). I'm thinking I'll have to hang some counter weights off the back to make sure the door doesn't crash down when being "closed". To hide the track and door you simply drop the ceiling of that space just under the level of the track.

Thoughts?


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## Van (Sep 2, 2016)

BSchend said:


> So in addition to my fire escapes from the other thread, I also have to make an additional roll door (we already have one real metal one that was donated). I'm thinking of using Van's idea of construction, but to move it more like a roll top desk than a roll up door. Less moving parts is always better in my book. I think once painted it should give a pretty realstic look.
> 
> The theory is simple, just make two tracks on both sides of the opening, slide the ends of your "door" in and voila. The concern is will the span be flexible enough that it will bend and slide out of the tracks. So I think I came up with a solution and wondered what you all thought.
> 
> ...


I Think this sounds like a great Idea! You do want weight in the very bottom of the door to help pull it down. Real steel doors have enough rigidity that if they hit a snug spot in the track the motor can force them through it, this luan version needs weight and a loose track to make it work reliably. If I can help with pointers or whatever, just shoot me a PM.


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## RonHebbard (Sep 6, 2016)

Les said:


> *Re: Store front roll up doors*
> 
> Maybe you could use something like this:
> 
> ...


Real ones have the roll at the top, not rolling up from the bottom as the Walmart blinds would do.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Les (Sep 6, 2016)

RonHebbard said:


> Real ones have the roll at the top, not rolling up from the bottom as the Walmart blinds would do.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



Mount it upside-down!


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