# How Do You Draft Source Fours?



## rochem (Jan 26, 2013)

While the industry (not to mention USITT) is pretty consistent in depicting different degrees of Source Fours, there seems to be two common but different ways of depicting 19deg and 26deg units. I'm just curious about the breakdown of this august body.

Option A:




Option B:


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## Footer (Jan 26, 2013)

6x9/36 degree is ALWAYS blank
6x12/26 degree is ALWAYS one slash
6x16/19 degree is ALWAYS an X

Any deviation from that is simply wrong in my book... and any designer who gave me a plot like that I would knock a few pegs down in my feelings about that person.


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## SteveB (Jan 26, 2013)

I have never seen Option B used in a plot. 

The only options are I have seen are either the USITT standard as shown in Option A, or the kind you see in assorted Vectorworks symbols that have the degree as text within the upper body of the fixture (26 deg.), with no slashes. 

I've moved completely away from the text format as it can be impossible to read on some plots. The X or \ is pretty much always readable.


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## hobbsies (Jan 26, 2013)

Footer said:


> 6x9/36 degree is ALWAYS blank
> 6x12/26 degree is ALWAYS one slash
> 6x16/19 degree is ALWAYS an X
> 
> Any deviation from that is simply wrong in my book... and any designer who gave me a plot like that I would knock a few pegs down in my feelings about that person.



And a V for 50s/4.5x6s

If someone used a slash for a 19 I honestly would get halfway through hanging before I realized it was wrong...or when I run out of 19s. Then the designer would get an angry phone call...


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## Footer (Jan 26, 2013)

hobbsies said:


> Then the designer would get an angry phone call...



And told to come in and hang the plot him/herself....

Rochem, whatever "designer" you have that is drafting like that deserves to be thrown in a cable trunk and shipped to Phoenix on a hot day. We have standards for a reason. You would actually have to go into the software and change it in order to draft this way...


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## SteveB (Jan 26, 2013)

Here's the USITT standards document:

There's also some great vintage stuff on both these sites, which if nothing else shows how each LD has a style, sometimes all their own.

http://thelightingarchive.org/archive.php

http://lightingdb.nypl.org/

EDIT: And as comment, the Lighting Archive has the Sweeney Todd plots from Ken Billington. The Broadway as-hung plot was drawn by Marcia Madeira where as the Bus and Truck tour plot seems to have been drawn by a C. Dunn, who is probably Candice Dunn. Both well know LD's in their own right now.


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## rochem (Jan 26, 2013)

Footer said:


> And told to come in and hang the plot him/herself....
> 
> Rochem, whatever "designer" you have that is drafting like that deserves to be thrown in a cable trunk and shipped to Phoenix on a hot day. We have standards for a reason. You would actually have to go into the software and change it in order to draft this way...



Interesting that you say that. Recognize any of these names?

Don Holder
Ken Posner
Natasha Katz
Paul Gallo
Beverly Emmons

All of these designers (most of whom have a decent-sized Tony shelf) draft their 19s and 26s according to Option B (EDITED)*. This is actually why I thought it would be interesting. In New York, I see this probably just under half the time, but I've never seen it outside of New York. Every regional theatre or summerstock I've worked for uses the X, and that's what I was trained in as well, and what I use. But I've seen the slash enough to the point where I check the key every time before hanging, just in case. (And yes, I know, we should always check the key no matter what, but I'm sure we've all started working before checking the key at one point or another.)

The only reasoning I've ever heard for this variation is that it's easier to hand draft - instead of drawing a line and rotating your straightedge to write another one, both 19s and 26s only require one line inside the symbol. I don't know if that's the truth or not, it's just the only explanation I've ever been given.

*It's likely that many of these designers don't even know what symbols are being used, as their Associates tend to do most of the drafting. So it's possible that there could be plots out there where these designers use Xs for 19s instead of the single slash. All I'm saying is that I have seen/worked from at least one plot by each of these designers where a single slash is used for 19s.


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## Footer (Jan 26, 2013)

rochem said:


> Interesting that you say that. Recognize any of these names?
> 
> Don Holder
> Ken Posner
> ...



Option A is right (and these designers).... The others are wrong.... 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## icewolf08 (Jan 26, 2013)

Option A is certainly the standard. Anything different than that (aside from the VW standard of just putting the degree number) is incorrect. As others have mentioned, I would take little responsibility if things got hung wrong because the person who drafted the plot didn't follow the standard. Now, we have lots of standards in this industry, and apparently, like rules, they seem to be made to be broken. 

Next thing to consider. From the list of designers in the thread so far, I can almost guarantee that none of them actually draft their own plots. They probably hand a rough to and assistant and the assistant probably sends it off to the theatre. I would venture to guess that most of those designers, if they drafted their own plot (and I bet some would still do it by hand) would use the appropriate standard (that being Option A).

[rant about LDs and paperwork]
Then don't even get me started on the fact that 90% of the LDs that I work with have no real idea how to set up their paperwork in LightWright, and just turn on data exchange and call it a day. Most of the time I have to spend a good bit of time cleaning up the LW file I get for each show so that it makes sense. Things like multi-circuit unit numbering, lights with attributes, scrollers and accessories always need to be fixed.

Just like there is a right way and a wrong way to draw a plot, there is a right way and a wrong way to put your information in LW. Generally the raw data from data exchange is wrong, but people think that DE is like a god-send, but it isn't, you still have to look at your paperwork!

Oh, and draft in a normal scale, I hate getting plots in 3/8"=1'-0"!
[/rant]


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## rochem (Jan 26, 2013)

Footer said:


> Option A is right (and these designers).... The others are wrong....
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD



I'm sorry, that's my pretty glaring mistake. These designers all use Option B, keeping in mind my disclaimer from above.


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## josh88 (Jan 26, 2013)

I may have missed something since this was edited. I'm not sure. I was taught and have always seen the X and the \ (option a)

That or its written in with a degree number as Steve B mentioned. I haven't seen the line/option B.


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## jglodeklights (Jan 26, 2013)

I have never seen option B. either. I have, however, seen a Yale educated designer who uses symbols like that option B 26 that I believe are based on the actual lens train configurations of a Source 4. I personally use the standard VW text symbols with editing done by me to include the USITT standard as well. This comes from working, sometimes, with people who are not familiar with USITT.


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## MNicolai (Jan 26, 2013)

icewolf08 said:


> Oh, and draft in a normal scale, I hate getting plots in 3/8"=1'-0"!



I hate getting plots that I need a scale rule for in the first place. All of my plots have distances marked out on them at intervals such that they can be hung without the use of a scale rule to interpret the plot.

More and more I'm not even plotting. For my purposes, iPads make paper plots irrelevant. It's not a perfect solution for most, but I've personally found PDF plots on iPads to be less cumbersome than paper plots. They can also be marked up quite easily. Myself and one of the local TD's both love it because we can check off lights as we go by putting green marks on them. We can flag lights that need to be returned to in another color.

As for the Opt A/B, per USITT, the line parallel to the end of the luminaire is for 70° lenses.

If you want to get me started on a drafting convention worth arguing about, let's talk about the atrocity that is that USITT uses the construction industry's elevation height symbol as a sightline marker.


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## derekleffew (Jan 26, 2013)

> How Do You Draft Source Fours?


It's called Selective Service: sss.gov. Every male Source Four must register within three months after his 18th birthday. He is then issued a draft card to be carried at all times, and randomly assigned a number. As troops are needed, the lower the number, the more likely that fixture will be called upon to serve. Some unit s volunteer, which lowers the number required to be drafted. Other luminaire s try to dodge the draft by defecting to Canada, others try to claim they are unfit for service, or claim conscientious objector status for religious reasons.

Compare to Israel, where every young person is automatically expected to perform a stint in the armed services.
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country.
The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.


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## derekleffew (Jan 27, 2013)

Footer said:


> Option A is right (and these designers).... The others are wrong....


Well now, let's not be too pedantic. (Yes, I said that!)

Back in the dark ages, pre-CAD, I was taught that the "open", unadulterated symbol should be used for the most common type in one's inventory. Thus in one small venue it could mean a 4½ x 6½, while in another larger it might designate 6x16. Just makes sense when hand drafting with a stencil.


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## Synchronize (Jan 27, 2013)

None of the above! I color code the barrel of my source fours and have the degree printed inside the barrel. Granted, I don't hand draft plots. This works out really well considering that most venues also have their source fours color coded. Match the venues color code and, wallah, lazy electricians are less likely to screw it up. Red source four on plot/hang card matches red source four on meatrack.


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## rochem (Jan 27, 2013)

derekleffew said:


> Well now, let's not be too pedantic. (Yes, I said that!)
> 
> Back in the dark ages, pre-CAD, I was taught that the "open", unadulterated symbol should be used for the most common type in one's inventory. Thus in one small venue it could mean a 4½ x 6½, while in another larger it might designate 6x16. Just makes sense when hand drafting with a stencil.



About two years ago now, I hung a large Jules Fisher plot. For whatever reason, he did the plot himself, and it looked very much like the drafting for Hair that can be seen at the Theatrical Lighting Database, with all Source Fours depicted as PAR can symbols and hand-written degrees for everything except 26deg fixtures (which were open for the reason Derek wrote above). I'm sure that there are very few designers who are actually turning in plots like that, but they are apparently out there.


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## SteveB (Jan 27, 2013)

rochem said:


> About two years ago now, I hung a large Jules Fisher plot. For whatever reason, he did the plot himself, and it looked very much like the drafting for Hair that can be seen at the Theatrical Lighting Database, with all Source Fours depicted as PAR can symbols and hand-written degrees for everything except 26deg fixtures (which were open for the reason Derek wrote above). I'm sure that there are very few designers who are actually turning in plots like that, but they are apparently out there.



One thing for certain is that Broadway NYC is very much a world all their own. They do things their way, think it's the only way and quite frankly, if it works,, why change it.

As to the symbol choices used, that's really between the ALD's drawing the plots and the production electricians hanging it. If the electricians are used to Option B, as shown in the OP, then that's what they'll use 'cause that's what everbody is familar with. Just like film folks know what a Baby Baby is. 

It's when you leave the cocoon of Broadway and need to communicate with all sorts of folks in a lot of different venues that a standard becomes more important.


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## techieman33 (Jan 27, 2013)

That's why you should always check the key on the drawing. Standards are nice, but it seems like everyone in this industry has their own standard that is the "right" standard that everyone else should recognize.


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## toshiboy (Jan 29, 2013)

> That's why you should always check the key on the drawing. Standards are nice, but it seems like everyone in this industry has their own standard Interesting that you say that. Recognize any of these names?
> 
> Don Holder
> Ken Posner
> ...



As someone who has worked with some of these designers directly, they do hand-draft their own plots according to option B. But if you say that they hand it to assistants, of you look at the plots for the likes of Wicked or Spiderman, drawn by Karen Spahn or Viviene Leone both are very well respected Associates, they both follow the option B.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 29, 2013)

Synchronize said:


> None of the above! I color code the barrel of my source fours and have the degree printed inside the barrel. Granted, I don't hand draft plots. This works out really well considering that most venues also have their source fours color coded. Match the venues color code and, wallah, lazy electricians are less likely to screw it up. Red source four on plot/hang card matches red source four on meatrack.



Bad! One should not assume that everyone has the ability to print a plot in color. Color coding sounds like a great thing, but the simple symbols are much easier to quickly identify and again, there are standards for a reason. I actually had an LD as if I wanted a color coded plot using my color scheme, but it is completely useless since I don't have a color plotter. This of course is besides the fact that why would you, the draftsman or LD, want to take the extra time to use a non-standard symbol that changes for every theatre you are designing for rather than a standard symbol that everyone should recognize! Seems like a waste of energy to me.


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## jglodeklights (Jan 29, 2013)

I should add, that I also rarely use plots to actually hang the show. The paperwork I generate includes coordinates off center line, or from the base of a boom position. I generally only print out a plot for the ability to highlight focused instruments and odd positions like ladders that have space for two instruments at each level.


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## hobbsies (Jan 30, 2013)

icewolf08 said:


> Bad! One should not assume that everyone has the ability to print a plot in color. Color coding sounds like a great thing, but the simple symbols are much easier to quickly identify and again, there are standards for a reason. I actually had an LD as if I wanted a color coded plot using my color scheme, but it is completely useless since I don't have a color plotter. This of course is besides the fact that why would you, the draftsman or LD, want to take the extra time to use a non-standard symbol that changes for every theatre you are designing for rather than a standard symbol that everyone should recognize! Seems like a waste of energy to me.



Color coded instruments usually have the degree number written on the unit as well. I get handed these plots a lot and I cannot print in color unless I want to dish out quadruple the price at kinkos.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 30, 2013)

hobbsies said:


> Color coded instruments usually have the degree number written on the unit as well. I get handed these plots a lot and I cannot print in color unless I want to dish out quadruple the price at kinkos.



I have found that in most cases where the degree number is printed in the unit, it is harder to read than the standard symbol would be. Granted we typically print in 1/4"=1'-0" scale so that we can fit on ArchD sheets, but still. Also, in my experience, about 90% of the people who put the degree number in the units just use the VW default symbols which have that number in grey, not black, so it is even harder to read at a glance. With standard symbols, I can glance at a plot and call out appropriate information to people who ask without bending over the plot and squinting at it, or asking myself if the unit is colored green or blue.

It also just occurred to me, for those who color code, what do you do for a theatre like mine where we have one degree of units which doesn't get a color and one degree of units that gets white?


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## hobbsies (Jan 30, 2013)

icewolf08 said:


> I have found that in most cases where the degree number is printed in the unit, it is harder to read than the standard symbol would be. Granted we typically print in 1/4"=1'-0" scale so that we can fit on ArchD sheets, but still. Also, in my experience, about 90% of the people who put the degree number in the units just use the VW default symbols which have that number in grey, not black, so it is even harder to read at a glance. With standard symbols, I can glance at a plot and call out appropriate information to people who ask without bending over the plot and squinting at it, or asking myself if the unit is colored green or blue.
> 
> It also just occurred to me, for those who color code, what do you do for a theatre like mine where we have one degree of units which doesn't get a color and one degree of units that gets white?



Agreed, just pointing it out. When the numbers are too small to read and the color is b&w it's pretty useless. I much prefer symbols to color/writing for degrees.


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## SteveB (Jan 30, 2013)

icewolf08 said:


> It also just occurred to me, for those who color code, what do you do for a theatre like mine where we have one degree of units which doesn't get a color and one degree of units that gets white?



The auto color fill function in VW 2013 keeps these units as white if you use a "N/C" as the color. It also understands "NC" as well as a blank for color in the Object Info Browser. 

As comment, this automatic color function changes the symbol design as established by Steve Shelly in the Field Templates I use. The VW symbols he has created, has 750w S4 with the back half of the fixture in black, to differentiate from a 575w unit, which is not black. That black section of the symbol goes white when you turn on the color function. 

I am also currently going thru and updating label legends to have the unit number have solid fill to the text so as to be able to see the unit number on a saturated colored unit. 

The attached pdf's shows this.


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## hobbsies (Jan 30, 2013)

Oh interesting. I've only seen color coding as stripes over the lense tubes on s4s.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 30, 2013)

SteveB said:


> The auto color fill function in VW 2013 keeps these units as white if you use a "N/C" as the color. It also understands "NC" as well as a blank for color in the Object Info Browser.



Yes, but that doesn't really answer my question. Let's say that the color code for a 36° is no-color and the color code for a 50° is white, how would you differentiate that on a color coded plot?


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## jglodeklights (Jan 30, 2013)

The 36 gets black with white lettering? I don't do color coded plots, although I do like color filling instruments by gel color, per what LXFree has offered for some time and now it seems VW has (I'm on 2012).


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## toshiboy (Jan 30, 2013)

jglodeklights said:


> The 36 gets black with white lettering? I don't do color coded plots, although I do like color filling instruments by gel color, per what LXFree has offered for some time and now it seems VW has (I'm on 2012).




I have to say, that PDF posted above just hurts my eye's. When you start getting into very large plots, i.e 5-600 units all colour coded, I feel it just becomes a mess. Generally I would never cut/insert colour from a plot. I would always use the colour/instrument schedule for this.


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## jglodeklights (Jan 30, 2013)

toshiboy said:


> I have to say, that PDF posted above just hurts my eye's. When you start getting into very large plots, i.e 5-600 units all colour coded, I feel it just becomes a mess. Generally I would never cut/insert colour from a plot. I would always use the colour/instrument schedule for this.



Haha! Just because I like doing it, doesn't mean that I do it all the time. You're right, at that size it would just get busy. On a smaller show, though, it can be useful in keeping your systems organized as your build them.


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## SteveB (Jan 30, 2013)

icewolf08 said:


> Yes, but that doesn't really answer my question. Let's say that the color code for a 36° is no-color and the color code for a 50° is white, how would you differentiate that on a color coded plot?



Ah !, I thought you were talking about gel colors. 

In addition to having the instrument fill being keyed off gel colors, you can also user select any other colors from a couple of assorted palettes that VW allows. Full black is NOT one of them from what I'm seeing, but you can choose so close in dark grey to be useful. There are 258 some odd colors available including shades of grey, in 2 palette groups, so lot's of color options, exclusive of the gel color (this is somewhat dependent on what your color printer can generate). As well as the unit/symbol fill, you can also vary the line color. So you could (in theory) do a fill of black for the 36 deg. units and nothing for the 50's. And if that were all the instruments you needed coded, you could use a B&W printer. 

Trouble with this, is the process is currently buggy. To change the fill (or line) color, you double click/highlight a unit, which calls up the Lighting Device dialog box (never new this existed til this week, amazing what going back and reading the manual can do). In this box is the ability to select the fill/line color. All good, but as far as I can tell and find, you need to do this unit by unit !. I attempted to do a Find and Modify with "If Light whose Instrument Type = S4 36" then "Select Them". With all the 36 deg S4's highlighted, I should be able - in theory (and this works with the gel color selection) then do the double click to call up the Instrument Dialog and simply change the color to any selection, then click OK. Refresh instruments, etc...

It's not working. This entire process has issues that VW is seemingly aware of. I just sent them this week a set of files detailing how this whole process has all sorts of bugs, especially when using the Lightwight. We'll see where this goes.

It certainly has a lot of potential uses that we are only just now exploring. I just today turned on the PM to the idea of color coding his ground plans to have Audio separate from deck props, from deck electrical, separate from rigging comments, etc... only to remember that he's using VW2009. So back to layers in B&W.


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## SteveB (Jan 30, 2013)

toshiboy said:


> I have to say, that PDF posted above just hurts my eye's. When you start getting into very large plots, i.e 5-600 units all colour coded, I feel it just becomes a mess. Generally I would never cut/insert colour from a plot. I would always use the colour/instrument schedule for this.



Very true and a reason to be judicious as to use.

I am also not totally happy with the color choices VW makes as it attempts to match to gel colors. Not particularly accurate. My old method of using a lot of creative highliners actually reads better. 

Still I think this all has potential. Especially if you are porting over a small to medium size image, or multiple sections (viewports ?) of a plot to an image to use in an Eos magic sheet. The process has less room for error then doing it by hand and I know I have screwed up an entire 250 unit print by zoning out while coloring by hand. No method better then the others though and whatever works. Nice to have the tools though to give you options.

As to a color instrument schedule ?. I have my own issues with them. How to deal with No Color is a problem I see electricians screw up all the time. Empty frame ?. Bold print on the schedule ?. I got tired of dealing with them and have found for a 250 unit plot, better to color code and bring it up by system. Fast as well as I can have many electricians landing color.


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## emac (Jan 30, 2013)

Another thing to consider is people that are color blind. Some might say well pshhh if your color blind you should not be working with light. But not only does it not matter when you ME, but I have worked with color blind lighting techs....
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express


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## SteveB (Jan 31, 2013)

emac said:


> Another thing to consider is people that are color blind. Some might say well pshhh if your color blind you should not be working with light. But not only does it not matter when you ME, but I have worked with color blind lighting techs....
> Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Board Express



No laughing matter. I had a tech one time who was color blind as well as seemingly dyslexic. No joke. We discovered it when he filed away all the L201 in the L102 folder.


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## derekleffew (Jan 31, 2013)

SteveB said:


> ... We discovered it when he filed away all the L201 in the L102 folder.


Can't tell Full CT Blue from Light Amber, AND confuses L201 with L102? Transfer him to the Props Dept.!


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## JohnD (Jan 31, 2013)

Have I ever told you the story of the venue with the color blind electrician........red wire,green wire, all looked the same.....


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## DuckJordan (Jan 31, 2013)

Try carps props I need guys that can see so when I ask for the red Gaff I don't get grey or blue


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## AxlD1234 (Dec 13, 2014)

If this is in the wrong location please move it




I'm looking to make that and i was looking if anyone had seen any flat drawings of the Source 4 or if anyone would be able to draw it. I just need a flat drawing of it.


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## imbrandone (Dec 13, 2014)

Here is a copy of what is in the Vectorworks libraries


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## DELO72 (Dec 15, 2014)

My two cents-- CONSULT THE KEY OR LEGEND. Honestly, while there may be "best or common practices", the drafter clearly (or is supposed to) TELLS you what is what in the Key/Legend. Failing to consult it makes it 100% the M.E.'s fault, not the designer's. A key is provided to you, so use it. Assuming a shape means one thing because "that is how other's have used it" is 100% wrong all of the time. The designer could use squares and circles if they wished, IF they provide a clear key/legend explaining what those symbols mean.

That said- Is it beneficial to use industry standards most of the time to reduce potential confusion? Absolutely. But, at the end of the day the Light plot is simply a tool/plan for the designer to communicate intent to the Electrician who will be hanging the show, so as long as that intent is able to be clearly interpreted and understood (and hung appropriately), then whatever works, works.


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