# I Need An Old Person! What Is This?



## DrPinto (Aug 31, 2015)

I came across this video and was wondering... what the heck is the brown box with the thing spinning in the top behind the keyboardist? Who makes it? You get a good view of it at 5:10.


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## JohnD (Aug 31, 2015)

Why, it's Leslie, a Leslie speaker, and it had two spinning parts, one in the bottom and the spinning horns on top.
Edit: Here is an explanation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker
There also used to be as much voodoo with micing a Leslie as micing a snare drum. Such as one mic top and bottom, one mic bottom and two mics top (some times one with phase reversed) Mic the open back, Oh no, mic the louver side, better Doppler effect. Well, you get the idea.


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## Footer (Aug 31, 2015)

Leslie 122 that is most likely being driven by a modified Hammond B3 (granted, that thing looks really close to a Fender Rhodes). You don't need an old person. You just need someone who has been around for just about any rock show ever. Any backline company worth their salt has 3 of each. Any stagehand that sees one roll in knows to be on the opposite side of stage when the case for that thing gets popped.

That speaker has done more for the sound of modern music then just about any other piece of gear. It is the one piece of backline gear that you can identify easily in any mix or recording. Hell, many guys even use them as guitar amps. Even with all the work companies like Nord have done to duplicate the sound of a leslie nothing beats actually hearing one at full volume. Granted, nord is really close to hitting the sound of a B3.


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## Amiers (Aug 31, 2015)

To add further to the questIon. what do you guys think is sitting on top of the case. @ 5:14?


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## JohnD (Aug 31, 2015)

Hammonds and Leslies are very popular in smaller churches who couldn't afford a pipe organ. It does make a joyful noise.
Here is a screen grab for @Amiers question:


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## AudJ (Aug 31, 2015)

My dad has a b2 +perc and Leslie combo just sitting around. I grew up with that thing - bear to move around.


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## FMEng (Sep 1, 2015)

JohnD said:


> Why, it's Leslie, a Leslie speaker, and it had two spinning parts, one in the bottom and the spinning horns on top.
> Edit: Here is an explanation:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker
> There also used to be as much voodoo with micing a Leslie as micing a snare drum. Such as one mic top and bottom, one mic bottom and two mics top (some times one with phase reversed) Mic the open back, Oh no, mic the louver side, better Doppler effect. Well, you get the idea.



And be sure to use a thick windsreen on the mic for the bottom, bass speaker. Quite a bit of air movement down there.


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## AudJ (Sep 1, 2015)

Amiers said:


> To add further to the questIon. what do you guys think is sitting on top of the case. @ 5:14?


Hard to tell from the video - it could be almost anything. My dad used to hook up all kinds of gear to his setup. Might be for one of the other keyboards. Probably just dead weight to keep that thing from propelling itself into outer space!


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## JohnD (Sep 1, 2015)

The electric piano he is playing looks like a Yamaha CP 70. The Hammond is on his left with what looks like a clavinet on top.


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## Footer (Sep 1, 2015)

JohnD said:


> The electric piano he is playing looks like a Yamaha CP 70. The Hammond is on his left with what looks like a clavinet on top.



Nice call on the CP70. That thing looks like another back breaker. Have I mentioned lately I hate keyboards?


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## JohnD (Sep 1, 2015)

How about the Hammond Porta B, it still had most of the weight and added finger smashing to the mix.
What I am curious about is what looks like a Wurlitzer console upstage, was that the stadium console?


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## Lextech (Sep 1, 2015)

Footer said:


> Nice call on the CP70. That thing looks like another back breaker. Have I mentioned lately I hate keyboards?



CP70s were bad not as bad as a real piano. They break down to two pieces. Bringing back memories of my youth....


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## Robert (Sep 2, 2015)

CP70 two pieces and an easy load into the case. Still needed a piano tuner. Usually nice guys, but one that could do it under pressure was harder to fine. One who could do it during sound check was even better to find.
As to the object on the cabinet, I'm leaning toward a recording device.. Tascam, Nacamichi, Sony, or even a video recorder, cause it was a video tape of an opening act.


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## DrPinto (Sep 3, 2015)

Thanks everybody for the info on this. This thing is too cool....I have to hear one of these in person! Does a Leslie speaker have any use in a theater, or is this only something that has to be used with an organ?


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## JohnD (Sep 3, 2015)

It shouldn't be too hard to find one. Local smaller churches with an organist. Some really small churches have gone to a keyboard with midi tracks since they don't have an organist. Local music teachers who teach at home. College music departments. Just about any backline provider should have some.


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## What Rigger? (Sep 5, 2015)

If you ever get Skynyrd in your venue, look out! The Leslie is just as loud as the guitar rigs (Gary's especially, if memory serves) running 5150 heads turned WAY up. Way, wayyyyyy up. It was indeed glorious!


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## gafftaper (Sep 6, 2015)

Here's a video with everything you never wanted to know about how a Leslie works.


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## derekleffew (Sep 6, 2015)

And here's a visual graphical representation of the Doppler Effect:



Eeooowwwwwwwwwwwww.


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## derekleffew (Sep 9, 2015)

Attentive viewers may have noticed this

during the musical segment on Colbert's _Late Show_ premiere last night.

If you can't tell from the picture, upstage between Colbert and the chick is a Leslie 122 cabinet, connected to a Hammond B3 downstage played by Jon Batiste.


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## TimmyP1955 (Sep 10, 2015)

Not only do a lot of churches still use the B3 (or it's siblings) and Leslie, a lot of bands do as well - and not just old guys.


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## DrPinto (Sep 16, 2015)

Amazing catch! I would have never noticed that.


derekleffew said:


> Attentive viewers may have noticed this
> 
> 
> during the musical segment on Colbert's _Late Show_ premiere last night.



during the musical segment on Colbert's _Late Show_ premiere last night.


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## JohnD (Sep 16, 2015)

Ahhh, but the big question, is it the same set that Paul used?????


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## DrPinto (Sep 16, 2015)

Could be! That looks like one behind Paul, although this might be from the NBC era. Instead of "Where's Waldo", I've been playing "Where's Leslie"! I never thought there were so many of these speakers still used.



JohnD said:


> Ahhh, but the big question, is it the same set that Paul used?????


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## JohnD (Sep 16, 2015)

Here is a vid of the Paul Shaffer rig:

He used a Leslie 145, the short Leslie.


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## TimmyP1955 (Sep 27, 2015)

If there's a Hammond organ on stage (or in the studio), there's a Leslie with it. Some players use Leslies with modern keyboards, to get as close as possible to "that sound". Carrying a Leslie isn't that much worse than carrying a big amp. Carrying a Hammond is a lot worse than carrying almost anything but a real piano.


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## larry62 (Dec 22, 2015)

In response to DrPinto's question about use of a leslie in Theatre:

I used a smaller, single 8" driver two-speed leslie unit in the 1990s for an effect on the voice of the Wizard in a youth production of The Wizard of Oz (or maybe the Wiz, I don't recall, as I did sound reinforcement for both several times over the years.)

My concept for the effect came from hearing an amazing sounding B3/Leslie combination used for gospel music in a 3200 seat Theatre-in-the-round, which had been converted to a church (Melodyland Christian Center, was near Disneyland, since torn down). The circular room had raked seating and reflective ceiling panels that raked down as the distance increased from the stage. Around the outside was a circular cinder block wall. I think the best sounding leslies are a result of both the loudspeaker plus the room contribution. In this case, the highs and the lows 'swept' around the room, and reflected back. It sounded amazing, and it was also shocking how loud 60 watts through two drivers could get. (I know there are lots of exotic ways to mic a leslie, but since it is a 3D sound, I'm not sure that any combination of 2 - 4 mics through a stereo PA will ever reproduce what these sound like in-person in a good room.)

The Theatre for my show had hard walls and ceiling in an open area above the house seating, and I wanted to create a similar effect where I would try to have the sound bounce off the walls, by flying a rotating vibrato/tremolo unit under a lighting catwalk. I was looking for an enveloping sound that came from everywhere.

It wasn't feasible (nor safe) to fly a full size leslie. I was able to rent a small unit from Peter Miller at CAE Sound (who has been repairing and hot-rodding leslies for San Francisco Bay Area bands, some legendary, for many years), which I suspended from chains underneath the catwalk. I could not modify the leslie itself, so all connections and rigging were done without changes to the actual unit.

The unit had an 8" driver and looked similar this:



(from http://www.tdpri.com/forum/amp-central-station/127863-whos-built-leslie-speaker-cab.html)​
It is a smaller unit of the Leslie model 16, which was also packaged as the fender vibratone:

Inside the Fender Vibratone
from http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/vibratone/

Vibratone.pdf (application/pdf Object)
from http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/vibratone/Vibratone.pdf​
Here is YouTube video of the internals of single-speed version of the unit:

​

Since the unit was out of an organ, I had to provide the AC motor power and control. I built a two-channel relay control unit that switched AC power located at the leslie, controlled with remote switch box using 12VDC control via an XLR cable, which was operated from the FOH position. I ran AC power, speaker line, and my control XLR cable up to the catwalk (along with the usual feed for balcony fill speakers).

For the audio feed, I was limited to using the actor's wireless mic feed from a bodypack. I was hoping to use a dynamic mic but it was not feasible to get it built into the set, due to cable runs and set changes. The actor playing the wizard was a boy using an omni lapel mic, so the sound was very thin. I ran the feed through a compressor and added two octaves of frequency down-shifting with an SPX90, to try to add some 'meat' to the sound. That output was fed to a 25 watt paging amp (e.g. a Bogen or McGowen), as a quick way to make sure I did not burn out the 8" 'vintage' driver on the rented unit.

When the Wizard spoke, the mix operator brought up the leslie feed, and switched between the high and low speed motors similar to a B3/Leslie organist playing music. A clean feed of the actor's mic went through the main PA as well, as we still needed to maintain intelligibility (which limited how far we could go with the entire effect, as we didn't have a lot of headroom before feedback.)

On the positive side, the effect filled the room with a unique sound, and caught the attention of the audience because it wasn't just coming from the stage. And, like a B3 through a leslie, the most interesting sound came when the unit was speeding up or slowing down. The leslie effect is both Doppler (pitch or vibrato), and level (tremolo). The operator learned to continually flip the switch so it was always speeding up and slowing down. With more tech time, I think would could have tied the speed control adjustment to dialog.

On the down side, I was not able to achieve the 'sound bouncing off walls' effect, likely because the room was too small, and the coverage 'angles' of the unit were too wide. Also, I was not able to get the effect to really have the impact I wanted, as it didn't 'growl' the way I wanted, and I didn't get people to jump out of their seats. That is likely due to the concept itself, which is diffuse, along with the limitations of a boy actor, lapel mic, and lack of a two-way, full-size leslie. I'm not sure any sound out of an 8" speaker under a catwalk would get 400 people to jump out of their seats.

Since that show, I found a couple of similar units on Ebay that are sitting in storage waiting for attention. I'm thinking a high-power 8" coax might work well, but would prefer something with narrower coverage. However, there is no way a single-drive unit will have the sound of the two driver unit, which typically spins asynchronously in opposite directions, adding an additional set of interactions between the high and low frequencies. The magical sound of a leslie comes from very elegant engineering that all works together in a sloppy sort of way, and that includes how the speed changes between the two motors on a single shaft, along with belts slipping and such.

While there are fewer and fewer leslie experts around, here are a few other reference links I've found, for reference:

Captain Foldback's Hammond and Leslie Page!
from http://www.captain-foldback.com/

"Unearthing The Mysteries of the Leslie Cabinet"
from http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/mystery/mystery.html

Hammond-Leslie FAQ v1.4.2 May 2000
from http://www.theatreorgans.com/hammond/faq/hammond-faq.html

Vintage Parts - Hammond Leslie Rhodes - CAE Sound - Guitar Preamps
from http://www.caesound.com/​
Anyway, that's one use of a leslie in Theatre...

-larry-


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## TimmyP1955 (Jan 9, 2016)

The Hammond in the Boston pic is neither a B or a C. It could be an A100 series, but I think it's a lesser model (Mxxx, Lxxx), or maybe even not a Hammond.


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## gafftaper (Sep 4, 2020)

Yup!


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## FMEng (Sep 4, 2020)

There's a well known, jazz B3 player (first name Joey) that lugs around his own organ and Leslie speaker. The B3 was modified, by some hack, to have a line output jack. A friend of mine was doing sound for a show with that musician and was asked to plug the B3 into a direct box and mix it with the miked Leslie. He got electrocuted by high voltage from that jack.

When I did a broadcast with the same player all I got out of that jack was noise. I hadn't yet heard the electrocution story or I would not have attempted to use it. I stereo miked the Leslie rotating speaker, with a third mic on the woofer, and it sounded fantastic to me.

My friend and I have both declared that we'll only mic B3s and other vintage organs. Most of those instruments have led a long, hard life and are not reliable or terribly safe. I also won't volunteer to help lift one. It's not worth permanent spine damage.


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## soundlight (Sep 4, 2020)

I had the distinct pleasure of hauling in a B3 & Leslie for the legendary keyboard player Bernie Worrell on I think two occasions when I worked at a venue in Philly. He was out with guitarist Steve Kimock. I usually hated loading in Leslies, but when it was Bernie Worrell's Leslie & B3, I knew I was in for an incredible night of music.


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