# Stage edge safety



## Sayen

Just curious what other theaters do to keep fools from falling off the edge of the stage when not in performance. My theater lacks a pit, so the stage apron ends in darkness, with a drop off of about three feet. It never bothered me before, since I grew up in theaters and know better than to fall off, but a district official was asking questions, and it does raise a good point. Some of those who use my theater are ... less than brilliant, and if a safety concern can be addressed, then it should be addressed.

Any good tips? I do use a ghost light.


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## lieperjp

We have footlights that are above the edge of the stage, so people usually see them and think, "The end of the stage!" The actors are usually good not to go to near the edge of the stage because when the stand within 8 inches of the edge of the stage their faces don't get lit, due to the location of the catwalk. For non-theatrical events, usually there are at least some house lights on that define the edge of the stage.


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## derekleffew

I found this in Australian Raktor's Risk Assessment: 
"When not within the half hour call, barricades exist surrounding the open orchestra pit. These are removed by the Stage crew when advised by stage manager." 

I've worked in theatres where posts and chains were required (except during performances) when the orchestra lift was below audience level. Excellent practice, and one that should be more popular.


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## Sayen

That was what made me remember the meeting with the district official last year. Posts and chains works in theory, but installation is far from simple.

I'm not worried about the edge during performances. As an aesthetic choice I almost never block to the edge of the stage anyhow. Poor lighting, and I think the audience likes a buffer for the fourth wall.

I think Derek is right, that this ought to be a common practice of sorts. To be effective, it also needs to be simple and low impact on the theater, or it will get ignored for time/convenience by most folks. Yes, I know, safety should never be an inconvenience, but that's unfortunately reality in a theater.


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## ruinexplorer

What about putting up safety markers at the pro? One theater I worked at would use simple rope/flag barrier during load ins to warn of when the pit was down. This in addition to your ghost light should provide ample warning that you shouldn't wander into what could be unsafe. Plus it is easy for one person to move whereas barricades (even chain and post) can be burdensome.


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## bdkdesigns

derekleffew said:


> I've worked in theatres where posts and chains were required (except during performances) when the orchestra lift was below audience level. Excellent practice, and one that should be more popular.



Our pit is basically removable traps. When the pit is closed up, we just have two ghost lights that go out. When the pit is open, we have a bright yellow rope that we stretch across the proscenium line with a large sawhorse with a sign on it. Both ghost lights are placed next to the sign along with a third ghost light that is placed inside of the open pit. Additionally, we have a side slot entrance on each side of the stage that gets a chain with a sign on it. We have stairs on both sides of our stage going to the audience. If the stair plugs are not in, we also place a sawhorse directly in front of them that also have a sign on them. All signs say something along the lines of "Caution: Open Pit".


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## Pip

derekleffew said:


> I found this in Australian Raktor's Risk Assessment:
> "When not within the half hour call, barricades exist surrounding the open orchestra pit. These are removed by the Stage crew when advised by stage manager."
> 
> I've worked in theatres where posts and chains were required (except during performances) when the orchestra lift was below audience level. Excellent practice, and one that should be more popular.



In our theatres we have a ghost light as well as a rope for when the pit is down.


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## gafftaper

Hughesie's school has some sort of safety fence that spreads out across the front of the stage. I've seen it in his pictures long ago. 

Hey Huggie can you post a link here. I'm too lazy to go searching for it right now.


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## jdandreas09

i use glow tape. you just have to get rosco brand because it will glow much longer and brighter and then cover it with a clear tape over it and it will last for years


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## Pip

jdandreas09 said:


> i use glow tape. you just have to get rosco brand because it will glow much longer and brighter and then cover it with a clear tape over it and it will last for years



$$$$$$$$$

(And most places I've worked use glowtape more for stuff you'll bump into, as opposed to fall into)


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## Raktor

gafftaper said:


> Hughesie's school has some sort of safety fence that spreads out across the front of the stage. I've seen it in his pictures long ago.
> 
> Hey Huggie can you post a link here. I'm too lazy to go searching for it right now.






There's one of mine, anyway. The actors are small enough to not be identifiable.


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## Pip

Well now it looks like you're talking about stuff thats there even during shows...


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## Raktor

Pip said:


> Well now it looks like you're talking about stuff thats there even during shows...



Ah yeah, that could be misinterpreted. That was from the tech run or first dress rehearsal. They usually have them up for the first night of rehearsals to make sure there's no accidents...


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## Pip

Raktor said:


> Ah yeah, that could be misinterpreted. That was from the tech run or first dress rehearsal. They usually have them up for the first night of rehearsals to make sure there's no accidents...



Ahhhh very nice. Sounds like a good idea.


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## hsaunier

We have inbedded around the stage edge and the pit edge wheatgrain rope light. When the cover is down the DS edge goes out and the US edge of the pit cover lights.


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## gafftaper

The newly remodeled proscenium house down the hill has a set of LED's embedded in the floor that runs across the stage about 6" upstage of the pit. And at center stage there's one red LED as well which is great for dancers. 

As for glowtape. You've hit a pet peeve of mine. Glowtape is usually only effective for about 5 minutes after a large amount of light goes away. Some people think it magically glows on it's own for hours and that just isn't true. I had a student stage manager telling her ASM to go around the set with a flash light AN HOUR BEFORE CURTAIN and charge up all the glow tape. You can charge it up significantly more than usual by using either a fluorescent or UV light instead of an incandescent. But glow tape has to have an occasional source of light or it doesn't do any good. Because of this most places use large quantities of white tape to mark edges. While it's not as effective as glow tape, if the stage was just bright and then blacked out. Areas that are dark and never get good light simply don't ever get the recharge they need to cause glow tape to glow. White tape on the other hand will be visible if there is any light around, most theaters seem to have enough stray light here and there to make white tape a better option.


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## thorin81

I am in a HS theatre, so the things that happen there are no where near what happen in a professional theatre. For example: the district in my school has painted a 4" wide white line across the proscenium edge to help with visibility. Needless to say I will be painting over the "magic line" (my theatre kids call it) during our next production. 
I have always been a fan of just always requiring that there be some light source on stage at all times to aide with visibility. Build a ghost light (light on a pole that sits out in the middle of the stage) and make sure that it is left on stage turned on when everyone leaves so that when any new person enters the space they can at least find their way to a real work light panel or to the house lights. If everyone knows that it is supposed to be there they will expect it appriciate it.


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## gafftapegreenia

Glowtape, white or yellow spike tape, and some form of ghost light.


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## tenor_singer

We had our school's insurance inspection and I am floored at a request that the inspector made.

We have a small curved thrust that sticks out about 10 feet that is 32" high and the inspector was worried that a performer could fall off the stage and hurt themselves. He wanted us to put a 3' railing around the front to keep this from happening.

Luckily our head maintenance man told them to go pound rocks.


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## derekleffew

tenor_singer said:


> We had our school's insurance inspection and I am floored at a request that the inspector made.
> 
> We have a small curved thrust that sticks out about 10 feet that is 32" high and the inspector was worried that a performer could fall off the stage and hurt themselves. He wanted us to put a 3' railing around the front to keep this from happening. ...


As a fool (thank you, Sayen) who is recovering from knee surgery and will most likely be on Worker's Compensation for a total of six months, I can't say I disagree with your inspector. Removable (during performances only) barricades, pipes and chains, or ropes and flags can save thousands of dollars in pain, suffering, and injuries.


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## Sayen

Ouch Derek, sorry - didn't mean it quite like that. I was picturing students who like to run around in dark rooms without permission when I said that. I tend to write too colloquially, don't read too far into it.

In response to the thread, I think two simple posts at each end of the stage with a thick white strap or white flags strung between them would be simple and fast. It doesn't reach the edge of the stage, but the few feet of slack in the line should stop someone from reaching the edge.


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## themuzicman

Having no pit, it is kind of ridiculous to have to mark out a safety landing for a 3 foot drop.

In my current school, the stage is only raised two inches from the floor, but in high school I had a raised proscenium stage, and honestly, you'd have to be pretty stupid to fall off of it, even in the dark. Being on a stage should give you enough warning to turn the lights on if there are no lights.

That said, when we had ballet's, I'd put a few pieces of glow tape just so the little kids wouldn't fall off the front.


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## Grog12

3' is enough to break your neck.

I've watched a dancer charge into a 3' deep cyc trough. With a scrim in front of it..


My grandmother's favorite theatre story is how she saw the Phantom fall into the pit.


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## wodden

We use two ghost lights, one by the stage door entrance and one DSC and a strap with dog clips on each end across the proscenium opening. This has worked well in all 3 theatres for the last 20 years. The dog clips make it convenient and easy to use. We also use straps in the Orchestra pit when the pit is not at Orch level.


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## wodden

Once had a dancer miss a 6" step and come down on the side of their foot, broke the little toe bone inside the foot. 6 weeks in a walking cast. Things can break from any height and from no height falls. Better safe than sorry.


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## cdub260

wodden said:


> Once had a dancer miss a 6" step and come down on the side of their foot, broke the little toe bone inside the foot. 6 weeks in a walking cast. Things can break from any height and from no height falls. Better safe than sorry.



And dancers can and will trip on a tape line on the floor. I've seen it happen.


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## Eboy87

As I recall, the Oriental Theatre, for Wicked at least, has a net over the opening of the pit. No idea if it's strong enough to catch someone unlucky enough to fall. Then again, that was two years ago. No idea if it's still there.


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## maccalder

We use Glowire permanently installed around the edges of our pit, it can even be used during performances without the audience really noticing it - put it on a DMX relay and you can black it out on blackout cues too (we use a normally closed relay - take the DMX value > 50 and the it goes open circuit...). It is fairly easy to retro-fit as well - you just need to route a groove in the floor and bobs your uncle.


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## derekleffew

Eboy87 said:


> As I recall, the Oriental Theatre, for Wicked at least, has a net over the opening of the pit. No idea if it's strong enough to catch someone unlucky enough to fall. Then again, that was two years ago. No idea if it's still there.


I felt finding this site: InCord Safety Nets > Product Range > Baynets > Orchestra Pit Safety was worthy of resurrecting this thread.


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## TimMiller

Dancers can do all sorts of weird things. I now have a ML in the shop that a dancer kicked off of the edge of the stage (the ML's were behind the monitor line), so how you manage that is beyond me. Also a dancers mom was trying to sue the dance company because her kid fell of off my stage. My whole arguement was that it was a 4' stage so by law where we were no railing was necessary, and rather than following the arrows leading off of stage, the stupid kid walked over the safty lights that marked the edge of the stage (the safety lights were not exactly at edge, you had about a 3" margin of error). Most ironically this was the first show we did that had safety lights around the edge of the stage.


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## photoatdv

We have a wire cover over most of our below ground pit, but people seem to be good at falling onto the stairs where it isn't covered. We've had two hospitaizations and I don't want to know how many bruises.

But yes, dancers can trip on ANYTHING. They are also good at taking out cables.


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## rchu3149

Dancers are good at tripping.... but we have a footlight that we use when the theatre is dark at night to give enough light to warn you of the pit.... we have a net that we're supposed to use when we're not in rehearsal or performance.... we don't use it... Unless there is a show requiring pit, the pit stays up...


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## TheDonkey

Whoa, surprised that I've yet to comment here.

At my old school, we had a bunch of LED's soldered onto 9V battery caps(with proper resistors), and we just attached them to the old wireless mic batteries.
They had an orchestra pit, but I didn't go to the school long enough to see what happens when it's open.

At my new school, we have light switches beside every door for house/works lights, and everyone knows to tread lightly, but during shows, we never actually go to full black(this thing with our Drama head...) so that's not really much of a problem.


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## museav

Admitting my own foolishness here, but while working at an amphitheatre, and in broad daylight, I was concentrating too much on other things and managed to walk backwards right off the downstage lip, landing in the first row of seating. Everyone thought I had really hurt myself as I lay on the ground shaking, but I was actually just laughing so hard at my own stupidity that I couldn't get up.

The point other than admitting to being the idiot you can't always account for is that in that case lights or a painted line would have been of no benefit, it would have taken something that indicated while walking backwards that I was at or approaching the edge of the stage in time to stop. Maybe stage rumble strips???


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## ReiRei

Whenever our pit cover is off, we leave the pit lights on along with ghostie so there's very little chance that someone can accidentally fall in the pit.

Today we did our first full run through of Pajama Game and when we finished, not only did the actors scream as loudly as they could in excitement, they also decided to lie on the pit all at once and hang their heads over the side. As I have the loudest yelling voice in my theatre, I was the one to tell them to get the hell off of it unless they wanted to break their necks. Scary stuff.

Moral of the story? Even when the stage is lit, some people are still dumb. 

*This is not a bash on actors as I know many, many intelligent actors. The stage just has a way of sucking the common sense out of even the greatest minds sometimes...


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## tech2000

We've only had actors (1 or 2) fall into our pit when it was open for a practice. It's only 8' or so. Although now all of our safety lights on the edge of the stage are burnt out.


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## derekleffew

Monica Lijewski remains hospitalized after fall from Olney stages - The Washington Post


> Monica Lijewski, the actress who fell into the orchestra pit from “The Sound of Music” stage Nov. 9 during rehearsals at Olney Theatre Center, remains hospitalized with severe spinal injuries to her neck.


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## tjrobb

We had a bad fall when the blocking changed without all the actors knowledge. Thank God he caught himself on a piano. Only walked away with bad scrapes. PLEASE remember to let actors know if the blocking moves, especially towards the pit. Poor guy was blinded by the balcony rail units and couldn't see.


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## chausman

All of the tours that have come to Spokane that have had an open pit, have either had a ground row to keep the actors away from the pit, or had basically a net covering the pit. 

As far as I know, in 14 years of performing, CYT has only had 1 real fall off of a stage. That was Aladdin, where on the "carpet" (a wooden platform about 6 feet off the stage floor) was pushed top far downstage and fell into the front row. The elderly couple who were going to be there were in the bathroom at the time. Aladdin pushed Jasmine into a seat, and he landed between two seats. No one was severely hurt, and the show did continue. I just heard this from a friend, I was at a different show by the same company in a different theater at the time. Other then that, we've just had kids during intermission run onstage and then jump off. For about 12 seconds when we saw them and made them go sit back down. 

During Joseph and ___, when the brothers are singing about getting rid of Joseph, they were pushing him around and every show they moved farther downstage until they just about pushed him into the only pit cover that was removed, down 10' to the bottom of the pit, and through a $4k digital keyboard. They just about ended a lot of different things. Luckily, no one ever actually fell onto our wonderful parent orchestra. 

Now, we have the orchestra safety lights on for every rehearsal and performance to mark the edge of the stage.


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## Beans45601

gafftaper said:


> I had a student stage manager telling her ASM to go around the set with a flash light AN HOUR BEFORE CURTAIN and charge up all the glow tape.


 
Ahem. The full time professional stage manager at my theater also does this. I just don't have the heart to tell her that, well, she is wasting her time. Sigh.


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## Nelson

gafftaper said:


> I had a student stage manager telling her ASM to go around the set with a flash light AN HOUR BEFORE CURTAIN and charge up all the glow tape.



I thought that was the practical joke you are supposed to pull on the new stage hands!

We have a thin strip of blue lights embedded along the outside edge of our stage floor, a few inches back from the edge. Usually, however, there is enough "stuff" such as stage monitors and mic stands along the front of the stage that it is quite obvious where the edge is. Never had anyone fall off or even had any close calls. I only turn the blue strip on if the stage is going to be very dark for some reason (scene changes, blacklight show, etc).


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## josh88

I've always said if you need them charged that bad for the start of the show and the curtain is closed just turn on some of the stage lights for 5 minutes without about 10 minutes to curtain. that will charge em long enough to get you through till the next black out.


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## techieman33

Beans45601 said:


> Ahem. The full time professional stage manager at my theater also does this. I just don't have the heart to tell her that, well, she is wasting her time. Sigh.


 
We have 2 sets of rope lights, one at the edge of our stage that is one when that pit is a foot or more lower than the stage level. And the other is on the edge of the pit and lights up when the pit is at stage level.


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## MarshallPope

We have a 2x4 toe board that we wil screw to the deck just upstage of the pit when it is open. Apart from that, we don't have anything special, but we have never had any near misses.

(Well, not counting the time I fell off of the stage because I was sitting too close to the edge and leaned back to get my phone out of my pocket and rolled off backwards.)


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## CleverDream

In our theater, the lights on the end of the seating rows in the house are always on (we can't turn them off,) and with our ghost light, there's enough ambient light to see if you're going to fall. When our pit is open, we just keep the pit lights on, which is pretty noticeable.


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## gafftaper

Before anyone get's too excited about the original question, remember this thread started in 2008. That said it's an important topic and I have a couple of new things to add to this discussion:

You know those retractable belts on stands you see places like airport security lines? What about a wall mounted retractable belt mounted behind the proscenium wall. Just stretch it out and clip it in the other side. They are pricey but quick and convenient. Here's one I found. 

Second, do you have a way to secure your pit? You can get a custom made rope safety net. They a few thousand bucks depending on the size. Not only is your pit a danger when the theater is empty at night it's also a danger mid performance. What would happen if someone got a little too wild dancing near the front edge of the stage? A fall into the pit could be deadly to both the actor and the musician and it could happen very easily! I don't know the manufacture, but I know that the custom sales drapery guy at my local shop PNTA can get them made. So call your local dealer for a price if your local dealer can't find it for you, call my buddy Sy at PNTA to get a net for your pit.


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## tjrobb

Yeah, we have the belts here, but most only go to 12'. You may need several.


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## derekleffew

gafftaper said:


> ...I don't know the manufacture, but I know that ... So call your local dealer for a price if your local dealer can't find it for you...


See post #29 above:

derekleffew said:


> I felt finding this site: InCord Safety Nets > Product Range > Baynets > Orchestra Pit Safety was worthy of resurrecting this thread.


 I'm sure there are other manufacturers, but InCord is the most known.


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## sk8rsdad

For a Canadian supplier, try Barry Cordage Ltd.


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## emac

Going along with what gafftaper said:

Instead of using on of those belt rolls (which I think do have a limit on length) you could use something that I see on the ferries around Seattle. At the end of the car decks (they are open ended on both sides) they have a mesh fence that they stretch across that does have supports, but in front of that they have a yellow poly rope stretched across the deck. The secret is that they have a black bungee cord attached to either one or both of the ends of the rope, that way it stays taught. They detach one of the hooks on the bungee cord and attach the rope to the hookless end and use the remaining hook to attach to an eye bolt in the side of the ferry. 

You could just attach eye bolts to the side of the proscenium opening or on the upstage wall and then just stretch the rope when ever you need too. 

The only difficulty would be finding the proper rope


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## josh88

I shouldn't think that would be too difficult. If you're only using it as a warning barrier type thing you could get a a boat line that has the loop built into the end. hook that to the bungee, get it cut to length, and then cleat off the other end.


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## Sayen

gafftaper said:


> Before anyone get's too excited about the original question, remember this thread started in 2008.


 
For what it's worth, I started it back in 2008, and we're still dealing with it. There were some architectural changes to the building, and facilities won't let me do anything permanant, nor will they pay to do it themselves.

At the moment I've settled for a ghost light, and a homemade version of the retractable posts you're describing. I took some heavy wooden bases from another project and strung reflective line between them. It's not pretty, but it glows under the ghost light and it's hard to miss. Ultimately I'd like to route in and run a low voltage LED line so we have one line of defense during a show as well.


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## Mom

Sayen said:


> For what it's worth, I started it back in 2008, and we're still dealing with it. There were some architectural changes to the building, and facilities won't let me do anything permanant, nor will they pay to do it themselves.
> 
> At the moment I've settled for a ghost light, and a homemade version of the retractable posts you're describing. I took some heavy wooden bases from another project and strung reflective line between them. It's not pretty, but it glows under the ghost light and it's hard to miss. Ultimately I'd like to route in and run a low voltage LED line so we have one line of defense during a show as well.




Glad to hear you are trying to keep everyone safe!

Our High School, in Maryland, is getting ready to put on a performance with over 50 students, MANY of whom have never worked on a stage before or very often. A student backed up a little too far and fell into the pit, fracturing her skull on the cement floor, hitting someone in the pit. The girl in the pit thought the student who fell was dead!!

I keep reading that OSHA doesn't require it of theaters. How about if WE require it?!

When I learned a back handspring on a balance beam, I FIRST learned how to do it on a line, on a floor mat, thousands of times before I was allowed to try it WITH A SPOTTER on the beam. First you practice with safety in place.

Accidents happen, people are human, so why not have a net over the pit or mats in the pit if you are working on it? Let me guess...once you put up a net or railing or mats, you're admitting it's dangerous and so insurance costs skyrocket??? Probably. So, that's where stage management comes in and teachers, directors need to make it very clear to amateurs and pros alike, NEVER MOVE BACKWARD TOWARD DANGER.


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## Mom

lights do nothing if you trip and fall into the orcestra pit which is typically at least a 7 foot drop! ALL orchestra pits should have nets or how about something like subway grates for flooring over the pits???

I am so frustrated.


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## Les

Mom said:


> ALL orchestra pits should have nets or how about something like subway grates for flooring over the pits???



I agree with you here. It seems like I remember seeing some grating in theatres before.

While it won't help anyone who trips and falls, there definitely needs to be a stronger safety culture in some spaces when it comes to the staff holding a safety meeting with the cast involving dangers of the stage. It won't fix all the problems, but it will heighten awareness. I remember doing a state UIL competition in high school where the Technical Director was briefing us before our first rehearsal. He said "if one of you is under that curtain when it comes down, you'd better have an understudy ready because you WILL be injured by it."

You'd better believe, we were always making sure we weren't standing on that curtain line!

Again, this isn't a solution to the problem, but it would be a step in the right direction no less.


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## Mom

Les said:


> I agree with you here. It seems like I remember seeing some grating in theatres before.
> 
> While it won't help anyone who trips and falls, there definitely needs to be a stronger safety culture in some spaces when it comes to the staff holding a safety meeting with the cast involving dangers of the stage. It won't fix all the problems, but it will heighten awareness. I remember doing a state UIL competition in high school where the Technical Director was briefing us before our first rehearsal. He said "if one of you is under that curtain when it comes down, you'd better have an understudy ready because you WILL be injured by it."
> 
> You'd better believe, we were always making sure we weren't standing on that curtain line!
> 
> Again, this isn't a solution to the problem, but it would be a step in the right direction no less.



Thanks so much Leslie! You're right, a step in the right direction!! Educate, educate, educate, drill, drill, drill. Manage your stage!! Don't allow people to continue dangerous behavior. NEVER let ANYONE turn their back to the pit.

If someone trips and falls at least a net would catch them and keep them from fracturing their skull like my daughter did this past Monday.


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## teqniqal

The Spring 2012 issue of the PLASA (ESTA) *Protocol* magazine had the following:

*BSR E1.46 - 201x, Recommended Practice for the Prevention of Falls from Theatrical Stages and Raised Performance Platforms*, is a new project approved by the *Floors Working Group* on March 31, approved by the Technical Standards Council on April 2, and filed with ANSI as a new project on April 3. It is meant to address the old problem of people falling into orchestra pits or open stage traps, but the impetus for tackling it now was discussions in the group working on BSR E1.42 - 201x, Entertainment Technology—Installed Stage Lift Safety Standard. When you lower a stage lift, you have a hole in the stage, and people could fall in. Should the stage lifts standard address this? At this time, the working group has decided that this isn’t really a stage-lifts problem. It’s a hole-in-the floor problem, and is there when you open a trap, have an orchestra pit, or have a stage that is elevated above the first row of seats, regardless of whether there is an automated lift in place. Therefore, the Floors Working Group is taking it on.

Worker protection regulations throughout the industrialized world require employers to protect employees from injuries due to falls. In the UK, if there is any risk of injury from a fall, it has to be addressed. In the US, an employer must have a fall protection plan if a worker might fall 4' or more in general industry (which applies when a show is running) and 6' or more in construction (which applies when a show is loading in or out). This is not to say that it’s okay for a worker to fall 5' 6" during a load-in and break his neck. Clearly, that is a whole world of trouble for all involved. It simply means that an inspector won’t cite an employer for lack of fall protection if the height is less than 6' and the inspector visits the work site before the fall. After the fall and the injury, obviously the workplace is not safe and the employer can be cited. The employer should have done something to guard against injury from a fall, but what? There are many fall protection methods, but they are not all appropriate for all theatrical environments at all times. A guard rail complying with US 29 CFR 1926.502(b) (Fall protection systems criteria and practices. - 1926.502), for example, is a good, no-brainer way of protecting people from falls, but a beefy guardrail across the front of the stage usually doesn’t look good during a show. OSHA inspectors understand that a guardrail across a stage apron may not be appropriate fall protection during a show, but they will insist that something be done. In any case, no one wants to be in the whole world of trouble mentioned above. 

We need to keep people from falling from theatrical stages and raised performance platforms, no matter what their employment status or what is happening on stage. There are many devices and work practices that can be effective for preventing fall injuries, but which is the best for any particular situation depends on the event or activities on stage and who it is that needs to be protected. (Members of the public can’t be counted on to know that straight downstage is not the fastest way to the house.) E1.46 will help facility designers and event planners figure-out what fall protection will work best for them. The Floors Working Group’s voting membership has a good sampling of industry interest categories, but the membership is small. Anyone with a material interest in this fall-protection project is invited to join as a voting member. We are particularly interested in people who might be in the dealer/rental company and designer interest categories. The former might be companies who would sell and install removable guardrails or edge-marking systems. The latter would include architects and theatre consultants. See TSP - Working Groups - About, Camera Cranes, Control Protocols, Electrical Power, Floors, Fog & Smoke, Followspot Position, Photometrics, Rigging, Members for more information about becoming involved in the Technical Standards Program.

Karl Ruling is PLASA’s Technical Standards Manager. He also serves as Protocol’s Senior Technical Editor. He can be reached at [email protected].


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## lwinters630

ReiRei said:


> *This is not a bash on actors as I know many, many intelligent actors. The stage just has a way of sucking the common sense out of even the greatest minds sometimes...



Ironically, The reason codes usually exempt theaters for railings on the edges of the stage is that actors and stage hands have been trained in proper safety on stage. It would be a good practice to have the stage manager train each group (new events or show, rentals, student acting classes) so they are familiar with their particular stage and how to be (behave) safe on a stage (pit or not). As mentioned earlier even running on stage can trip and break things (legs, arms . . . .).


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## derekleffew

Wasn't going to mention this, but since the thread has been resurrected...

Stagehand hurt on Twain's new show struggles to recover - News - ReviewJournal.com

> Moore, 35, is one of two stagehands who have fallen into the stage's two-story loading pit in the past 14 months, prompting investigations and fines from state regulators, and raising questions about workplace safety.
> ...
> AEG Live said in a statement that safety is a top priority, and in the Colosseum's 10-year history, there have been only two accidents related to the stage lift.


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## elliot47

Our director fell into the pit. We now have a pit net. However she never wants it in during shows...


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## BillConnerFASTC

I anticipate the Life Safety Code, which has wholesale exempted stages from guards because of the essential function of seeing people on stage, to include a new rewuirement for a plan to protect occupanst from the hazard, which many of you have substaniated the need for by your anecdotes. I've edited this an paraphrased, leaving out section number references and so on, but basically a new requirement that says:

"Where a guard is ordinarily required but not provided in accordance with the exceptions for stages, a written plan shall be developed and maintained to mitigate the fall hazards of
unguarded raised floor areas and vertical openings on stages."


And an appendix note:

"The written plan should identify the unguarded areas and should include precautions and
provisions to mitigate the fall hazard. Such precautions and provisions may include:
Training
Choreography
Blocking
Rehearsal
Restricted access to the stage
Restricted access to unguarded edges
Warning lights
Audible warnings
Tactile edges
Warning barriers
Signage
Temporary barriers
Personal fall protection
Fall restraint
Spotters"


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## museav

BillConnerASTC said:


> I anticipate the Life Safety Code, which has wholesale exempted stages from guards because of the essential function of seeing people on stage...


I have to say this is the element I have never understood. I understand the reason for the exemption during performances and maybe rehearsals but have never understood it extending to other times. But then lights, glow tape, toe stops, etc. would have had no effect when I stepped backwards off a stage, I was looking upstage at someone talking to me one moment and on my back looking up at the roof the next. Luckily it was just a 3' or so drop and I was fine but it occurred while performing routine maintenance between shows and in those conditions I don't see why the requirements for a stage are any different than anywhere else.


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## LavaASU

One of the venues I work at when the pit is down outside of show conditions (or rehearsals done in show conditions) there's either a barricade up or spotters if we're just using it as an elevator for equipment.


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## shiben

museav said:


> I have to say this is the element I have never understood. I understand the reason for the exemption during performances and maybe rehearsals but have never understood it extending to other times. But then lights, glow tape, toe stops, etc. would have had no effect when I stepped backwards off a stage, I was looking upstage at someone talking to me one moment and on my back looking up at the roof the next. Luckily it was just a 3' or so drop and I was fine but it occurred while performing routine maintenance between shows and in those conditions I don't see why the requirements for a stage are any different than anywhere else.



It would be a pain to install a railing that actually met code every time you were not running a performance.


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## kiwitechgirl

The Sydney Opera House's Opera Theatre (or as it's been renamed, the Joan Sutherland Theatre) has a scenery lift at the back of the stage which, when down, has a two-storey drop. The safety mechanism used is an upright net made out of seatbelt webbing, but in bright yellow, which is fixed at one end and has a pole which runs through the other end. The pole slots into a flange on the floor, then is hooked into an arm at the top then the arm is pulled up and locked into place to pull the net tight. The lift can't be moved unless the arm is locked into place. At the bottom level, there is exactly the same arrangement on both sides of the lift so you can't get caught underneath it. It wouldn't be difficult to create a smaller version of this for stage fronts, I wouldn't think. We also have a pit net in place at all times, unless the pit is raised.


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## DuckJordan

In the 20+ years our stage has been running we have yet (knock on wood) have anyone fall into the pit. This is due to us keeping a ghost light plugged in at all times when the pit is down if the stage is not in use. When in use there are always at least 4 trained Technicians on the deck at any given point watching the pit and anyone near it. Anytime the pit is moving its yelled out and if we don't hear a response from at least half the crew on stage we will not move it but will call it out again. There is no net, no railing or anything else. It's just common sense to make sure you watch people near the pit. Whenever we are working close to the pit when its down we are on the upside of the piece we are working on. If we are on the other side there are at least 3 people watching at all times.


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## MNicolai

kiwitechgirl said:


> The Sydney Opera House's Opera Theatre (or as it's been renamed, the Joan Sutherland Theatre) has a scenery lift at the back of the stage which, when down, has a two-storey drop. The safety mechanism used is an upright net made out of seatbelt webbing, but in bright yellow, which is fixed at one end and has a pole which runs through the other end. The pole slots into a flange on the floor, then is hooked into an arm at the top then the arm is pulled up and locked into place to pull the net tight. The lift can't be moved unless the arm is locked into place. At the bottom level, there is exactly the same arrangement on both sides of the lift so you can't get caught underneath it. It wouldn't be difficult to create a smaller version of this for stage fronts, I wouldn't think. We also have a pit net in place at all times, unless the pit is raised.



Per chance do you have a photo of this? I think I understand what you mean but I want to make certain I'm imagining it correctly.

It sounds like a system that sets up easily, and that's what important about a safety mechanism -- if it's not easy to use, people are less likely to use it all of the time. The times that people think it's okay not to use the mechanism because "Oh, we'll only have the hole in the floor for 20 minutes" also happen to be the times that someone is most likely not to realize the stage configuration has changed and then they fall into the hole that five minutes earlier was not a hole.

Any inventors or consultants out there -- take note. For a safety mechanism to be effective at saving lives, it has to be painfully easy to use. The failure of safety mechanisms and procedures is less likely to cause death or harm than the inconvenience of setting them up. Pit nets, lights, toe rails, and stanchions are all good -- but they only work if people use them, and there will always be fringe use-cases where people think it's impractical to put those safety mechanisms in place.

Safety mechanisms, when possible, should be like the headlights on my car. They turn on and off automatically -- I never have to think about them. I can't get plowed into by a truck that can't see me on a rainy day because I forgot to turn them on, and I'll never find myself with a dead battery because I forgot to turn them off.


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## museav

shiben said:


> It would be a pain to install a railing that actually met code every time you were not running a performance.


So we should we only include building safety items when they are convenient? There are many other life safety aspects in buildings that are inconvenient to some including other areas that have to utlize removable railings, gates, etc. to address safety when not 'in use' and yet allow access when in use. I'll bet that is inconvenient for those people, however they deal with it because it is a better alternative than injury or death.

What I think may be overlooked is that in many cases the risk is not limited to techs and actors or to when you are there. Maintenance personnel, sales people touring prospective clients, students that found an unlocked door and so on, there is often the potential of people being on stage alone and/or without any trained people present.


MNicolai said:


> Any inventors or consultants out there -- take note. For a safety mechanism to be effective at saving lives, it has to be painfully easy to use. The failure of safety mechanisms and procedures is less likely to cause death or harm than the inconvenience of setting them up. Pit nets, lights, toe rails, and stanchions are all good -- but they only work if people use them, and there will always be fringe use-cases where people think it's impractical to put those safety mechanisms in place.
> 
> Safety mechanisms, when possible, should be like the headlights on my car. They turn on and off automatically -- I never have to think about them. I can't get plowed into by a truck that can't see me on a rainy day because I forgot to turn them on, and I'll never find myself with a dead battery because I forgot to turn them off.


I agree with the first paragraph and even go so far as to say the default should always be the 'safe' setting with some user intervention required to change that. However, I'm not sure headlights are a good analogy. They may be out there but I have yet to see a car where you can't manually turn off the lights such that they will not turn on automatically. Not only do many people operate their lights manually as that is the only way they worked for much of time they've been driving, but this also seems to create the potential of people assuming the lights automatically came on when they may be switched off. When that happens you can flash your lights at people, honk your horn, etc. and that may not register at all with those assuming the lights came on automatically. To me you want to avoid a function introduced for convenience being assumed to be for safety as that can create unsafe situations.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Good ideas to include in a written plan. Thank you all.

Perhaps your experiences are entirely different than mine, but there is page after page of regularions for fire safety and I don't personally know anyone injured by fire in a theatre. There is nothing written about protecting people from falling off teh stage and I know plenty of folks that have been injured that way, includijng a colege president who spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair.

I agree that passive safety is much more effective. For pits without lifts, I strongly recommend a tensioned wire grid just a step below satge level, which makes installing a filler easy and safe as well. I have some reservations about nets and how much the sag and a report that they are not warranted with the pit occupied, but probably better than nothing.

I do worry that the all automatic that causes delays and stoppage because it is finicky may be as bad or worse than the simple manual system - but a close call.

As the code change proposal indicates, it's a baby step towards doing something and raising awareness.

As part of some research for fire safety curtains, I had acces to the NFPA data base (FIDO - Fire Incident blah blah) and in a five year period there were 26 fires reported on stages. Albeit this is a voluntary system and I think they estimate they get about 10% of fires in the US reported but it still stands out that in 5 of 26, the fire service was injured when they fell of the stage. (No civilain imnjuries and no deaths, and the avergae property loss from fire was around $10,000 - but that's for another thread.)


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## museav

BillConnerASTC said:


> As part of some research for fire safety curtains, I had acces to the NFPA data base (FIDO - Fire Incident blah blah) and in a five year period there were 26 fires reported on stages. Albeit this is a voluntary system and I think they estimate they get about 10% of fires in the US reported but it still stands out that in 5 of 26, the fire service was injured when they fell of the stage. (No civilain imnjuries and no deaths, and the avergae property loss from fire was around $10,000 - but that's for another thread.)


5 out of 26 is a pretty high percentage and seems to indicate a situation that needs to be addressed. Any way of identifying how many of those twenty six fires and five falls occurred during rehearsals or performances?

It may also be worth noting that while most of the discussion seems to be addressing legitimate theatre or arts center stages, the same basic issues can also apply to stages and platforms in gymnatoria, worship spaces, cafetoria, family life centers, auditoriums, temporary stages and so on where access to the raised areas and the presence of trained personnel may differ significantly.


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## shiben

museav said:


> So we should we only include building safety items when they are convenient? There are many other life safety aspects in buildings that are inconvenient to some including other areas that have to utlize removable railings, gates, etc. to address safety when not 'in use' and yet allow access when in use. I'll bet that is inconvenient for those people, however they deal with it because it is a better alternative than injury or death.
> 
> What I think may be overlooked is that in many cases the risk is not limited to techs and actors or to when you are there. Maintenance personnel, sales people touring prospective clients, students that found an unlocked door and so on, there is often the potential of people being on stage alone and/or without any trained people present.



I think thats backwards. Safety systems should be convenient by design. And you can say should have would have all you like, but the reality is that unless its easy to use, it wont get used. Ideally it should be easier to use it than to not use it. And if you want something like a removable railing... Well, now I need to store that gear somewhere convenient, plus it needs to be compact and light weight. Do those attach to the stage edge in a manner that does not require the use of tools? If they require tools, those things wont get used unless the space is down for a week or more. These things need to be set up so that I dont mind installing this sort of thing, otherwise staff resistance negates the usefulness of the safety device. Im not overlooking that the situation might be unsafe, what Im saying is you fail to take into account what people are likely to do in real life, especially in schools where you have this happening anyhow with other things. I have been in too many places where safety devices exist but are ignored because its a pain to put 12 5' sections of heavy railing into holes on the stage before moving the lift, then removing them to empty the lift. Or to have a railing on a catwalk that is rated to be the fall arrest point, but since you need to move your claw every 3 feet no one uses fall arrest at all. Basically, all Im saying is that ease of use needs to be considered early in the design phase of the process, and it should be worked out from weight to storage to how easy is it to put on the railing.


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## Nelson

museav said:


> I have to say this is the element I have never understood. I understand the reason for the exemption during performances and maybe rehearsals but have never understood it extending to other times. But then lights, glow tape, toe stops, etc. would have had no effect when I stepped backwards off a stage, I was looking upstage at someone talking to me one moment and on my back looking up at the roof the next. Luckily it was just a 3' or so drop and I was fine but it occurred while performing routine maintenance between shows and in those conditions I don't see why the requirements for a stage are any different than anywhere else.



A director just did the same thing last Friday in our auditorium. Stepped backward off the stage. She sustained some injuries, but I don't yet know the extent of her injuries. I said in a post about 1 year ago that we have a blue strip on the front of the stage as well as a collection of monitor speakers, mic stands, and such so that the edge of the stage was always plainly visible. Though the edge was plainly visible on Friday, she was walking backward on stage and stepped a bit too far.


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## BillConnerFASTC

"5 out of 26 is a pretty high percentage and seems to indicate a situation that needs to be addressed. Any way of identifying how many of those twenty six fires and five falls occurred during rehearsals or performances?"

Most of these were unoccupied, middle of the night. I think "audience entering" was as close as it got to being occupied. At least one church as I recall and mostly non-professional spaces.

Most falls I've heard of have been other than during a performance. Administrators showing off the building seem more common. I suppose that stages have a number of hazards that are unique - like unprotected fall hazards and stuff being hoisted overhead - and simply to be allowed top enter should require some training or orientation or something. I don't think I realize enough how unfamiliar and clueless many people are about a stage beyond what the audience sees. (Could explain the number of initial drawings I see with the wings filled with dressing rooms to a few feet from the opening. They knew there were wings, but didn't know what they were for.)


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## BillConnerFASTC

Found it, or my summary, a file not opened in 20 years:

A summary of the NFPA data report.

Of the 37 reported in the NFPA report, these 26 appeared relevant to the issues of stages.

1.	I.2	concert hall electrical	"closed for the night"
2.	I.3	opera house unknown "closed at the time of fire"
3.	I.5	concert hall light/curtain	"staff were preparing"
4.	I.6	legit theatre unknown "closed for the season"
5.	I.9	legit theatre incendiary	"not occupied by patrons"
6.	II.2	gymnasium	tobacco/curt	"closed for the night"
7.	II.3	h-school gym	unknown "school in session"	*
8.	II.4	h-school gym	incendiary	"school in session"	*
9.	II.5	ex-military th	suspicious	"vacant at time of fire"
10.	II.6	college hall spontaneous	"closed for the night"
11.	IV.1	jr h-school	suspicious	"end of school-ready to close"
12.	IV.3	h-school incendiary	"school was in session"	*
13.	IV.4	jr h-school	elec/ltg-curt	"closed at the time"
14.	IV.5	jr h-school	incendiary	"school was in session"	*
15.	IV.6	pr school k-12	unknown "after building was empty"
16.	IV.7	h-school incendiary	"school was operating"	*
17.	IV.8	h-school electrical	"closed for the night"
18.	IV.9	h-school furnace "school was open"	*
19.	IV.10	jail audit.	electrical	"no one was in the auditorium"
20.	IV.11	e-school incendiary	"closed for the weekend"
21.	IV.12	e-school fires set	"closed for the weekend"
22.	IV.13	college th.	tobacco/curt	"being decorated"
23.	V.1	church light/curtain	"audience...was assembling"
24.	V.3	church intentional	"unoccupied"
25.	V.4	church hall used gasoline	"the building was closed"
26.	V.5	church electrical	"closed for the night"

Not including the 6 "school was in session" (asterisk) reports, 19 of the other 20 were not occupied by patrons. In the other case (23), patrons were entering. Of the 6 "school in session" reports, there were a dozen students in the area of one fire; it is likely that the stage-auditorium-gym was not occupied in the others even though the building was.

One incident (5) reported a fire curtain but it is believed it did not operate. Probably at most only 6 of 26 were equipped with fire curtains (1-5 & 23), all to no effect.

2 were suspicious; 6 were incendiary; 3 were deliberately set; 7 were caused by electrical or lights igniting curtains; 2 involved smoking materials and curtains; 1 was spontaneous combustion; and 1 was caused by a furnace igniting a partition, probably hastily erected by the owner; and 4 were unknown.

Regarding causes, I conclude that there are a lot of disgruntled people in the entertainment business and represent the most significant cause of fires in these buildings. Secondly is electrical, electric lighting igniting curtains, or smoking or other ignition sources igniting curtains. This is as common or more common on so called "regular" stages and platforms as on legitimate stages.


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## kiwitechgirl

MNicolai said:


> Per chance do you have a photo of this? I think I understand what you mean but I want to make certain I'm imagining it correctly.
> 
> It sounds like a system that sets up easily, and that's what important about a safety mechanism -- if it's not easy to use, people are less likely to use it all of the time. The times that people think it's okay not to use the mechanism because "Oh, we'll only have the hole in the floor for 20 minutes" also happen to be the times that someone is most likely not to realize the stage configuration has changed and then they fall into the hole that five minutes earlier was not a hole.



I'm not at the House until Monday but I'll take a picture when I'm there...it's a good system, mostly because you cannot operate the lift unless all three nets are locked into place - you could probably bypass it but it would take you more time than hauling the net across and hooking the pole in does!


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## kiwitechgirl

OK, photos as promised: 

The net (this is one of the downstairs ones, which stops you getting trapped under the lift) fully in place:



The removable pole, slotted into the floor flange but not locked into place:



And the mechanism where the pole locks in - the piece about halfway down is the sensor - if it's not triggered, the lift won't move:


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## Trickster

kiwitechgirl said:


> OK, photos as promised:



Hello from the staging dept! I think I helped you guys move the timp's last week 

Some extra info regarding the SOH setup:

The photos posted are from the loading dock level. In the first photo, the equalisers are down, waiting for the lift platforms (there are 2) to be lowered from stage level - they won't move if the nets aren't locked. Once the lift platforms are locked off at stage level and the equalisers have been raised (as in photos 2 and 3), all the nets can be opened - we frequently use the equalisers as a storage or build area when work is happening onstage and we need extra dock space. If any of the gates are open, the lifts and equalisers will not move unless overridden manually via a locked control box. There are also several access gates on either side of the equalisers which also need to be locked in order for the lifts to move - they are all sliding gates with a drop-down locking bar, and you can see two of them in the background of the first photo.

The second photo shows how we often leave the net if the lifts are due to be moved shortly, but we still want to allow quick access across the equalisers - the net is generally stowed by being pushed across to the wall and left bundled on the floor with the pole hanging on a hook on the wall, but in some cases we'll just leave it lowered like you see in the picture. The black wall you see is actually our sound/fire door, which is visible in the first photo on the right in it's open position, and it runs along the metal track in the middle of the yellow zone. This does not need to be closed in order for the lifts to run, but is usually closed during performances.

The third photo shows the actual locking mechanism: the pole fits into the hole at the base, the hook goes around the pole, and the lever lifts up to lock it into place. The blue metal tab above the hook and lever is a little locking bar for the lever - we had them put in on all the levers after they started to unlock themselves occasionally (they're old, and the mechanism is starting to give out). It takes quite a bit of force to hook the pole in and raise the lever and the way it is set up now, there is no way for it to be accidentally unlocked.

At stage level, the net setup is exactly the same, and we have a smaller secondary net that can be placed between the two platforms if only one needs to be lowered (IE: on shows which build onto the downstage lift, or use the upstage lift as an element of the show). An indicator on the control panel at dock level shows if the nets at stage and dock level are open or closed, and all lift runs are called by a stage supervisor via intercom or headset. There is currently no video monitor allowing the lift operator at dock level to see what is happening onstage or on the lift, but we're trying to convince management to install one, as it would greatly help the operator tell if something is going wrong with the load (especially considering that the upstage lift has a tendency to run about 20mm out of synch with it's partner - we have to be very aware of load shifting). The lift platforms themselves have no barriers - there is a "safety zone" about 1m in from the edge where we are supposed to stand when riding the lift, but that area is usually filled with set, so everyone just stands as far back from the edges as is practical and never stands on anything with wheels. Last year they installed sensors all the way up the walls of the lift track that would cause the lifts to stop if anything went past them - unfortunately, they proved to be too sensitive, and caused some really scary e-stops that were more dangerous than anything falling off, and were quickly deactivated.

If you want to see a video of the whole system in action, check out this timelapse of a matinee-to-evening changeover from a couple of years back - it shows the lifts, gates, and fire door in use:


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## BillConnerFASTC

Forgive me if you already said this but the net is errexcted manually, correct? I understand there is detection to see it's in place. And thanks. Very helpful and instructive.


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## kiwitechgirl

BillConnerASTC said:


> Forgive me if you already said this but the net is errexcted manually, correct? I understand there is detection to see it's in place.



Yep, you just grab the pole and drag the net across, hook the pole into the floor and the lever, then pull it up to tension it. And that video has the shortest version of _Rosenkavalier_ known to man! (It's a very loooooong opera....)


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## kmccoy

I'm surprised that I haven't seen this mentioned, but my understanding of fire code (with the caveat that it can vary from locality to locality) is that it generally requires that if a space has a fire curtain, it should be closed when the space is not occupied. I think this is mostly to prevent or slow the spread of any possible fire, but also serves to reduce the chance of falling-into-the-pit injuries. I'm sure Bill Conner can correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Other than that, certainly a ghost light should always be left out on a stage where there's ANY elevation change, whether it's a pit or just a big step down into the house. And I've seen some very easy-to-put-in-place pit ropes, including just a length of rope permanently attached behind the proscenium on one side and with a clip to attach to the other side, or fancier retractable strapping systems.

Kevin McCoy


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## MNicolai

kmccoy said:


> I'm surprised that I haven't seen this mentioned, but my understanding of fire code (with the caveat that it can vary from locality to locality) is that it generally requires that if a space has a fire curtain, it should be closed when the space is not occupied. I think this is mostly to prevent or slow the spread of any possible fire, but also serves to reduce the chance of falling-into-the-pit injuries. I'm sure Bill Conner can correct me if I'm wrong on this.
> 
> Kevin McCoy



As I believe [user]BillConnerASTC[/user] mentioned in another thread, it is part of the NFPA code -- however, adoption of that code in its entirety or in fragments of it and enforcement is on a jurisdiction-by-jurisdiction basis.

I know of very few theatres equipped with fire curtains that are intended to be cycled regularly. In my theatre, raising the curtain back up requires dismantling the rope lock on the first counterweight set and hand-cranking it up. Most theatres in my area, of those that have fire curtains, they are of the varieties that require they be hand-cranked back up (I know at least 4 theatres nearby that are technically considered platforms instead of stages and therefore need no fire curtain by code). I would be surprised if any theaters with non-automated fire curtains were dropping them in every night.

When I last spoke about the subject with our AHJ, they weren't familiar with the code in question. When they learned about it and saw the great inconvenience it was, they did not expect us to do it. We do still schedule a cycling of the curtain annually each time our contractors come in to inspect/recharge fire extinguishers, hoses, sprinklers.

Maybe in 30 years when fire curtains are more across-the-board automated they'll serve a role in keeping people away from open holes in the stage floor, but a minor one at best. The rarity aside that any given theatre is deploying their fire curtain each night, not all theatres require fire curtains(thrusts, arena, "platforms"), fire curtains are not deployed when stages have the greatest amounts of foot traffic (load-in, load-out, rehearsals, performances), fire curtains do nothing to prevent someone entering from the house to walk up onto the apron of a stage where the pit may be open, nor do they prevent anyone on stage from falling into an open hole that may exist elsewhere on stage for equipment lifts and traps.

Fire curtains are an ineffective means of preventing falls into open holes. The times that they are in place and may prevent a potential fall, other -- more reliable -- means of fall prevention should already be in place.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Oh my.

Let me just say that a lot of reported falls off stages - into orchestra pits of first rows - happen at night, in the dark, when the building is closed, so I support the ghost light practice, and a fire safety curtain might incidentally prevent that. It was easy to show fire service falling off stages after having entered on stage walked to the audience. Harder to get a requirement for a ghost light into the code, and not sure how suitable it is for a code requirement. So I also agree that there should be a plan for protecting occupants from these fall hazards (and in fact am trying to make that a code requirement as noted above).

Both NFPA 80 and PLASA E1.22 - both ANSI standards - require the FSC to be closed during non-production times. That was primarily to increase the likelihood they would close in an emergency since it was reported by many contractors and people that regularly inspected stage rigging that most did not operate, with rust, debris, obstructions, scenery, and being “chained open” noted as common. The benefit of property protection being in place in the event of a fire (most fires in theatres are when unoccupied) and preventing falls was clearly secondary. (I would not agree it's ineffective, but just very limited in scope.)

Twenty-five years ago, when this requirement was first in the codes, I would agree that very few fire safety curtains could be easily opened and closed and few were. I think “I would be surprised if any theaters with non-automated fire curtains were dropping them in every night.” is a bit overstating the case today. Is it 10% or 25% - I don’t know - but more and more and it’s a good thing. I know I would never design for a non-motorized curtain today and have retrofitted motors on a number of stages as a part of other rigging work. Also have used coiling metal doors which are always motorized and easily opened and closed every night.

It’s too bad that the practice of the Rube Goldberg over balance systems that exist - like dropping a guided bar onto a pipe seventy feet on the air (who thought that one up?) - ever got started or that in this country - where we seem to love automatic things - we introduced automatic closing. I have much more confidence in a simple out of balance counterweight set that a stage hand releases than I do in a lot of clap trap relying on a fusible link that is in a position where heat will never accumulate and fuse it. And the farce of the braille style in it’s entirety is just astounding. Just motorized it, explain to users that they chould close it every night, and be done.


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## kmccoy

Here's a photo I took of a theatre using a ratchet strap for pit safety. It goes up and down very quickly. A safety feature that is easy is a safety feature that is used.


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## BillConnerFASTC

Theatre consultant Bob Davis has suggested a tennis net - about the right size across back of proscenium and priced well since they are mass produced.


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## teqniqal

BillConnerASTC said:


> Theatre consultant Bob Davis has suggested a tennis net - about the right size across back of proscenium and priced well since they are mass produced.



No need to over-think this. There is a commercially available product that is specifically designed for this application. PDF data sheet at: http://www.incord.com/pdf/Stage%20Guard%20Net%20Safety%20System.pdf


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## derekleffew

BBC News - Bolshoi violinist dies in orchestra pit fall


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## MPowers

From what I can construe, it would appear that he was at the pit lower level entrance but the pit had been raised to stage level and he stepped off into the open mechanical area below the pit. So, technically, not a stage edge issue, but still a serious safety problem.


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## SteveB

MPowers said:


> From what I can construe, it would appear that he was at the pit lower level entrance but the pit had been raised to stage level and he stepped off into the open mechanical area below the pit. So, technically, not a stage edge issue, but still a serious safety problem.



Interesting.

Our pit elevator got renovated a few years back with interlocks on the access doors to the pit. With doors to an under stage storeroom as well as a lower level hallway, you can only open these doors from the pit side. If you need these doors open from the room/hallway side with the pit up, you need a special release key that pulls down the vertical latch bar for the door. 

I believe this was a NYC code renovation requirement.


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## techieman33

SteveB said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Our pit elevator got renovated a few years back with interlocks on the access doors to the pit. With doors to an under stage storeroom as well as a lower level hallway, you can only open these doors from the pit side. If you need these doors open from the room/hallway side with the pit up, you need a special release key that pulls down the vertical latch bar for the door.
> 
> I believe this was a NYC code renovation requirement.



They may not have doors, some pit evevators drop down into an open room.


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## kiwitechgirl

MPowers said:


> From what I can construe, it would appear that he was at the pit lower level entrance but the pit had been raised to stage level and he stepped off into the open mechanical area below the pit. So, technically, not a stage edge issue, but still a serious safety problem.



That makes a lot more sense - I was wondering why a violinist was actually on the stage (some operas do have onstage musicians but I would have expected others to be hurt if he'd fallen during a rehearsal or show - he would have landed on them). This is one of the few advantages of our terrible pit; if the pit lift is raised to stage level, there's still a good few metres of floor between doors and the edge (2/3 of our pit is under the stage), and even then there's a secondary floor on the lift which comes to about a metre below the pit level. You could hurt yourself, but the drop won't kill you.


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## MNicolai

Theater I used to work at just had a fire inspection where they were given a temporary waive, but have been directed to begin soliciting quotes for a safety net to be installed on their orchestra pit. That was a compromise to putting up a 3' railing all the way around the pit, both for off-hours and for performances.

Facilities without pit nets, take note your days of not having fall protection in place may be numbered.


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## George Lathrop

Does anyone know where I can buy an LED strip / tape light that is designed to keep performers from falling off the front of the stage? Ideally this product would have a backing piece to keep the audience from seeing the light.


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## themuzicman

George Lathrop said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy an LED strip / tape light that is designed to keep performers from falling off the front of the stage? Ideally this product would have a backing piece to keep the audience from seeing the light.



This doesn't fully answer your question, but when I work on stages that have a built up show deck we often route a groove into the edge of the apron and mount EL wire. Like This stuff from Adafruit, only long enough to stretch across the stage. Insetting it into a groove means the the orchestra can't see it, and it's often dim enough that the folks in the balc aren't distracted by it, but the actors can clearly see it.


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## BillConnerFASTC

I like edge lyte but it gets set in a routed groove in rabbett, and leds are angled upstage.

http://www.future-light.com/products/edgelyte.html

I did see a very nice homemade version. Blue led rope light set behind a 1/2 or 5/8 quarter round. It was neatly attached to lip of curved stage. Not visible to audience - no balcony. Not bad.

I just like the edge lyte. Recessed. Stands up to high point loads. Goid when you have a pit with filler or lift.


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## Scarrgo

We had our floor redone last summer, and we requested red LED light strip/source for our stage lip edge, the white wheat lights had sections missing, project was almost done and I asked about the lip lights, and they had forgotten about it, they ran out and bought red LED rope Light, we will never have a complete blackout onstage again. And yes it is in a channel flush with the stage....kind of a bummer....of course the whole project was a major pain with lots of mistakes that no one up above seems to care about, they still havent finished staining one section of floor yet


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## George Lathrop

Thanks for the help. I'm asking because we work with an architect that has specified an LED tape light recessed into the DS lip on several school stages. The EE provided the design. It seems with the number of people who have fallen off stage during a show that there would be more commercial solutions developed. 
The Edge Lyte is a good start.


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## kiwitechgirl

On the subject of pit nets, we have just been through a very long, drawn out and painful process about our net. Four years ago our non-rated props-catching net was replaced by a net which would catch a person. I should note that people had fallen onto the old net (during load ins/outs) and it did stop them hitting the floor, but had there been musicians in the pit they would have been hit by the falling person. So as well as having structural rigging points, this new net is a much heavier weave than the old one, which causes us massive problems because from the right angle, which turns out to be right where the brass players sit, it is effectively opaque. When the conductor is up high enough to see the stage, he or she is effectively cut off at mid-torso level and the players can't see the baton or the conductor's face, which makes it very difficult for them to do their jobs properly. We're getting a massive theatre refurbishment at the moment and so of course the players asked if the net issue could be fixed. After many, many painful hours of risk assessments, arguments, and discussions later, we concluded that:
- the net does need to be rated to catch a person
- the existing net CANNOT remain (turns out it needed replacing anyway - only has a four year lifespan)
- a wire net (which could have been a wider weave due to the greater strength of the material) is not an option because it could cause serious injury if someone fell on it
- If the net is raised slightly higher, it solves the problem. The issue here is the attachment points which cannot go any higher than they are because they then get in the way of LX bars which are mounted on the pit rail.

End result: the net company has developed an outrigger which will go onto the attachment points; it's basically similar to the gas struts which hold your car trunk open. They'll hold the net up enough to solve the issue, but if someone falls on it, they will retract and the rated attachment points will take the load as they're designed to do. I'm hopeful that this will solve the issue (we'll find out in December when we move back into the theatre).

Stupidly enough, we're working in a different theatre at the moment and they don't even own a pit net. I've borrowed one from an identically sized theatre in Melbourne and it's a props net, nothing but. It's held up with sash cord. No-one seems to have a problem with it.


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## BillConnerFASTC

I dont know what you mean by "a wire net" but with a tensioned wire grid, you dont fall when you step off the stage edge, you simply stand on it and then step off.


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## BillConnerFASTC

George Lathrop said:


> Thanks for the help. I'm asking because we work with an architect that has specified an LED tape light recessed into the DS lip on several school stages. The EE provided the design. It seems with the number of people who have fallen off stage during a show that there would be more commercial solutions developed.
> The Edge Lyte is a good start.


There is another - recessed (flush with floor), directional, and strong. Just away from office and can't look up now.


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## RonHebbard

BillConnerFASTC said:


> I don't know what you mean by "a wire net" but with a tensioned wire grid, you don't fall when you step off the stage edge, you simply stand on it and then step off.


If you're clad in steel-toed / soled work boots and anticipating walking off the solid deck onto the tensioned wire grid, I buy your point. Perhaps, if you're a performer who's 'blinded by the light', in the moment and not expecting to be stepping off the solid deck, barefoot, in stilettos or ballet shoes and inadvertently catch your toe in a gap and trip, not so much. 
@kiwitechgirl Thoughts? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## BillConnerFASTC

RonHebbard said:


> If you're clad in steel-toed / soled work boots and anticipating walking off the solid deck onto the tensioned wire grid, I buy your point. Perhaps, if you're a performer who's 'blinded by the light', in the moment and not expecting to be stepping off the solid deck, barefoot, in stilettos or ballet shoes and inadvertently catch your toe in a gap and trip, not so much.
> @kiwitechgirl Thoughts?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.


So is a net better, where it deflects to seat back level in the pit? What's the worse outcome?


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## BillConnerFASTC

And a pit where us das is only a few feet. Net assures you'll fall, and probably land on the rail. Ouch! I'll take something you can stand on and not lose balance rather than a trampoline where you almost have to fall.


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## kiwitechgirl

The wire net which was under discussion was like a tensioned wire grid, yes. The three falls that I know of into our pit were an audio crew member during a bump-out, who trod on a piece of flooring which had been unscrewed, slipped as it moved underneath him and fell onto the net (old net - it broke his fall and stopped him hitting the floor), a breakdancing child who got a little too enthusiastic mid-show and tripped on his own feet, sending him onto the net (new net which did its job in that it caught him, and it didn't deflect anything like low enough to hit any of the musicians in the pit - he got up, unhurt, back onto the stage and kept going), and a dancer who I believe came off a jump off-balance and staggered on landing, far enough to go into the pit (in the days before a net - this one is only what I've been told by people who witnessed it - the orchestra was (luckily) on stage for that one so the pit was empty, the dancer climbed out somehow and kept going). I think in any of those three situations a wire net would have hurt quite significantly as none of them were controlled. 

I should also have said that there were also concerns about the current rigging points for the net (which were never going to be replaced) being enough for a wire net - our net consultant said that they were designed and specified for the fibre net which has more "give" to it and therefore absorbs more of the shock of the person landing on it - with a wire net having less "give", he couldn't guarantee the rigging points would take that extra load. Our pit is at minimum 2.4m below front row level 99% of the time, and the stage is higher than that (I don't have measurements but I would guess probably close to another half-metre) so that's a good distance to fall.


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## BillConnerFASTC

kiwitechgirl said:


> The wire net which was under discussion was like a tensioned wire grid, yes. The three falls that I know of into our pit were an audio crew member during a bump-out, who trod on a piece of flooring which had been unscrewed, slipped as it moved underneath him and fell onto the net (old net - it broke his fall and stopped him hitting the floor), a breakdancing child who got a little too enthusiastic mid-show and tripped on his own feet, sending him onto the net (new net which did its job in that it caught him, and it didn't deflect anything like low enough to hit any of the musicians in the pit - he got up, unhurt, back onto the stage and kept going), and a dancer who I believe came off a jump off-balance and staggered on landing, far enough to go into the pit (in the days before a net - this one is only what I've been told by people who witnessed it - the orchestra was (luckily) on stage for that one so the pit was empty, the dancer climbed out somehow and kept going). I think in any of those three situations a wire net would have hurt quite significantly as none of them were controlled.
> 
> I should also have said that there were also concerns about the current rigging points for the net (which were never going to be replaced) being enough for a wire net - our net consultant said that they were designed and specified for the fibre net which has more "give" to it and therefore absorbs more of the shock of the person landing on it - with a wire net having less "give", he couldn't guarantee the rigging points would take that extra load. Our pit is at minimum 2.4m below front row level 99% of the time, and the stage is higher than that (I don't have measurements but I would guess probably close to another half-metre) so that's a good distance to fall.


A tensioned wire grid has it's own frame and does not pull on edges if pit opening.


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## kiwitechgirl

BillConnerFASTC said:


> A tensioned wire grid has it's own frame and does not pull on edges if pit opening.



I think that may have been the problem - it would have been very difficult (and probably expensive) to get a frame built for our stupidly shaped pit. The conversation when the wire grid was dismissed as a possibility was several months ago now!


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## teqniqal

George Lathrop said:


> Does anyone know where I can buy an LED strip / tape light that is designed to keep performers from falling off the front of the stage? Ideally this product would have a backing piece to keep the audience from seeing the light.


Lumenesce offers the '4th wall' stage edge light. www.lumenesce.com/the-fourth-wall/


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## teqniqal

kiwitechgirl said:


> I think that may have been the problem - it would have been very difficult (and probably expensive) to get a frame built for our stupidly shaped pit.


This is where wire tension grid modules shine - they are easily customizeable to 'stupidly shaped' openings. Not really that expensive if you design and specify it right.


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## BillConnerFASTC

I have found the cost diffrrence between deck and short legs with tensioned wire grid is very close to deck with full pit depth support structure. Add net and might be less expensive. I do spend extra to use smaller deck panels for less weight. And if you use net, i assume it has to be installed after filler is removed. Ill wager workers pulling or installing deck are not protected as OSHA requires in almost every case.

It was gallows humor when the contractor installing the tensioned wire grid mentioned the week before one of his crew went to hospital after a fall in pit instalking a regular pit filler. 

Lot more time and labor for tupical pit filler and net. Just revisiting a school where i have the tensioned wire dtid and its 2 people for 30 min.


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## kiwitechgirl

We don't have pit filler as such - the front section of the pit (out from under the stage) is one giant lift platform so if they want the apron at full extension, we clear the chairs, stands and risers off it, unhook the net and the platform drives up to stage level. The net is a moot point now anyway as we've signed off on the new net system!


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## BillConnerFASTC

Did not know you had a lift. That is a completely different circumstances than what I see most. A net manually installed net is only practical system with a lift. At least you should be able to stop lift for good working height for setting net. 

Did they interlock lift to net? I worry about raising lift with net in place.


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## kiwitechgirl

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Did not know you had a lift. That is a completely different circumstances than what I see most. A net manually installed net is only practical system with a lift. At least you should be able to stop lift for good working height for setting net.
> 
> Did they interlock lift to net? I worry about raising lift with net in place.



I should have been clearer! Currently the lift and net are not interlocked but I believe that may be changing with the renovations that are currently happening.


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