# Choosing a USB Sound Card/Device



## bobbyt2012 (Sep 27, 2008)

Dear Fellow Sound People,

I am looking into buying a USB Sound Device in order to bypass my crap sound device that is internal in my laptop. I will be inputting it into an Allen and Heath GL2800 via RCA. Is it better to buy a USB sound device that has RCA right on it, or would it be okay to get one with only a 3.5mm jack that I would have to convert again with a 3.5mm to RCA cable. Any Suggestions? I don't want to spend too much money on this.


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## jkowtko (Sep 27, 2008)

My experience with USB devices has been with M-Audio, so my suggestions are --

* The M-Audio FastTrack USB has stereo RCA outputs ... you should be able to find one used in the $50-100 range.

* However if you want cleaner sound you might consider using balanced connectors to the board and using two input channels or a stereo return on the board instead of the CD inputs. For that, an M-Audio FastTrack Pro will give you balanced outputs.

If you don't used balanced connectors, then I'm not sure that you'll hear much of a different with an outboard USB device over just using the laptop headphone jack. I have a Dell Latitude 620 and the sound out of the headphone jack is pretty decent compared to a CD player with RCA cables.


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## bobbyt2012 (Sep 27, 2008)

I have an HP Pavilion DV6000 and when I have it plugged into external power, I get a 60 hertz hum. I have numerous filters on the cord, but they don't work. The M Audio Fast Track seems decent. I will be using whatever device I buy for the Accompaniment songs and sound effects for the show.


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## jkowtko (Sep 28, 2008)

Unfortunately the only solution I've heard of (and used) for the laptop hum is to unplug the power cord ... the hum will stop. I think it has to do with the laptop power supply not being a grounded plug. However that means you have to rely on battery power to last through each act.

If the laptop wasn't plugged into the same power outlet as the sound board, try doing that first to see if it helps. Otherwise, desktops don't seem to have this problem ... and therefore I use desktops in the theater.


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## NicktheEvil (Sep 28, 2008)

For my playback i personally own an M-Audio MobilePre. its a good sound for the price. i think i picked it up brand new for about 130... i've seen them much cheaper since then. There aren't any RCA jacks on it, but its nothing an adapter from radio shack can't fix. but if you don't need to go through RCA it does give you 2 1/4" jacks along with a normal 35mm head phone jack.


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## howlingwolf487 (Sep 28, 2008)

jkowtko said:


> Unfortunately the only solution I've heard of (and used) for the laptop hum is to unplug the power cord ... the hum will stop. I think it has to do with the laptop power supply not being a grounded plug. However that means you have to rely on battery power to last through each act.
> 
> If the laptop wasn't plugged into the same power outlet as the sound board, try doing that first to see if it helps. Otherwise, desktops don't seem to have this problem ... and therefore I use desktops in the theater.



I would recommend a Whirlwind PCDI (my favorite) or a ProCo iFace. Both will be very handy for balancing anything RCA or 1/8" related. They both have ground lifts and sum to mono, but the PCDI has pads whereas the iFace does not (unless they've upgraded it).


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## museav (Sep 29, 2008)

The PCDI and iFace are both good choices if you want to stay with your internal sound card. An external interface may provide an improvement but that all depends on the laptop sound device, I've seen some where just about anything would be an improvement and other where you would have to spend some money to improve on the internal sound. If you do go the external interface route, I think it is worth it to get a device that has balanced inputs and outputs, if nothing else that allows for a lot more flexibility in application. Balanced inputs are also nice should you ever want to use the interface for recording.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 1, 2008)

The iFace is a good price for me, but I am a little confused about it. How is it powered? The only reason I really want an external USB device is to get rid of the 60 hertz hum. When I have the power cable out of the laptop, it sounds really good.


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## SHARYNF (Oct 1, 2008)

does your laptop have a two or three prong ac power connector?
Sharyn


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## howlingwolf487 (Oct 1, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> The iFace is a good price for me, but I am a little confused about it. How is it powered? The only reason I really want an external USB device is to get rid of the 60 hertz hum. When I have the power cable out of the laptop, it sounds really good.



The iFace is NOT a USB device. It is simply a passive direct box of sorts with transformers that balance the unbalanced signal and pad it down to an acceptable level for microphone inputs. It also has a ground lift switch on it to help deal with that 60Hz hum you want to get rid of. Also, very handily, it has a mono sum switch to save on channels.

From the Website

SharynF's questions might help us understand what the problem is so we can tell you how to fix it, not band-aid it (if at all possible). If your power supply has 3 prongs, I think there might be a solution for you. Ebtech has a cool little product out there called the Hum-X. You plug your power cord into it and it (somehow) eliminates the nastiness you are hearing from the AC.


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## lieperjp (Oct 1, 2008)

howlingwolf487 said:


> If your power supply has 3 prongs, I think there might be a solution for you. Ebtech has a cool little product out there called the Hum-X. You plug your power cord into it and it (somehow) eliminates the nastiness you are hearing from the AC.



The HUM-X works great, but NOT FOR LAPTOPS! Had this same problem... We tried 4 different laptops (Three PCs and a Mac) with varying degrees of success, but the Hum-x did not completely remove the "buzz" from any of the laptops. So we got a PCDI, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.  However, the Hum-x is a great product and completely worth the $65.


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## Thefoxygranpa (Oct 1, 2008)

I would first go with the PCDI, but if you are on a budget then try this Behringer model...

Behringer UCA202 USB Interface from zZounds.com!

I've owned one for a year and have had no problems....plug in and it installs. It sounds just fine, but then again, if I had the budget I would go with the PCDI.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 1, 2008)

The the AC adapter that plugs into the wall is three pronged. The one going into the laptop itself is 1 prong. 

Power Supply: Input: 100-240V~ 1.6A 50-60Hz Output: 18.5V 3.5A LPS


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## museav (Oct 1, 2008)

howlingwolf487 said:


> Ebtech has a cool little product out there called the Hum-X. You plug your power cord into it and it (somehow) eliminates the nastiness you are hearing from the AC.


It would be nice for the manufacturer to identify how it works. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong, but here are a couple of points I have heard noted regarding this product. It is rated 15A, which is probably fine for many applications but most commercial circuits are 20A. I don't believe the Hum-X is UL listed, at least it is not so noted on the product data, which can be a significant concern for some applications. And according to others, the Hum-X uses power diodes such that in normal use there is effectively no connection to ground but if the potential gets high enough then the path is made, thus you theoretically have safety ground path only during a fault. The concern with this is whether the voltage that would trigger the safety ground path or that might pass through the device during a fault might also blow the diodes, thus breaking the safety ground path.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 2, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> The HUM-X works great, but NOT FOR LAPTOPS! Had this same problem... We tried 4 different laptops (Three PCs and a Mac) with varying degrees of success, but the Hum-x did not completely remove the "buzz" from any of the laptops. So we got a PCDI, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet.  However, the Hum-x is a great product and completely worth the $65.



Let me know if you get a chance to test the PCDI. I can re-create the problem when i connect via 3.5mm to RCA on my TV. I also use an S-Video cable in that configuration, but the hum will come with either.


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## SHARYNF (Oct 2, 2008)

I know there will be screams of NEVER do this etc, BUT th risk is very slight and I have found that there just seem to be problems in the design of three pin power supplies for notebooks.

First I would try and make sure that the notebook is plugged into the SAME outlet as the sound board, and then I would test to see if by using one of the usually dangerous three pin to two pin adaptors on plug will solve the problem

I know I know never remove the ground, but on these adaptors where the actual notebook is dc powered and the power supply is not isolated as a typical 2 prong ac connection is the audio from the notebook picks up the hum problem

Worth a try this is the ONLY case where I have ever recommended not using the ground connection on an ac device 

Sharyn


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 2, 2008)

I found a device on zZounds. Let me know what you think. ART DTI Hum Eliminator from zZounds.com!


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## Chris15 (Oct 6, 2008)

These ground lifter hum eliminator what have yous use a pair of opposing bias diodes between plug and socket earth pins. This should mean that anything under 0.67 volts will get blocked whereas supposedly faults greater than that should get through. But if it fails, well you're up the creek without a paddle...
On that basis I would be rather hesitant...


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 6, 2008)

Chris15 said:


> These ground lifter hum eliminator what have yous use a pair of opposing bias diodes between plug and socket earth pins. This should mean that anything under 0.67 volts will get blocked whereas supposedly faults greater than that should get through. But if it fails, well you're up the creek without a paddle...
> On that basis I would be rather hesitant...



Could you elaborate a little bit. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. Thanks.


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## howlingwolf487 (Oct 6, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> Could you elaborate a little bit. I'm not quite sure what you are talking about. Thanks.



The ground cable in electrical gear is meant to conduct any stray voltage and return it to the AC source and not YOU. The diodes that are apparently included in the HumX device block any voltage below a set level (like the threshold in a gate). Once that level is exceeded, the stray voltage is passed to the outlet's grounding plug.

Corrections welcome!


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## lieperjp (Oct 6, 2008)

museav said:


> It would be nice for the manufacturer to identify how it works. Anyone please correct me if I am wrong, but here are a couple of points I have heard noted regarding this product. It is rated 15A, which is probably fine for many applications but most commercial circuits are 20A. I don't believe the Hum-X is UL listed, at least it is not so noted on the product data, which can be a significant concern for some applications. And according to others, the Hum-X uses power diodes such that in normal use there is effectively no connection to ground but if the potential gets high enough then the path is made, thus you theoretically have safety ground path only during a fault. The concern with this is whether the voltage that would trigger the safety ground path or that might pass through the device during a fault might also blow the diodes, thus breaking the safety ground path.



I looked at the Hum-X today and it is NOT UL listed.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 6, 2008)

Does anyone have an opinion about the ART DTI Hum Eliminator from zZounds.com! or this from newegg Newegg.com - Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Surround 5.1 SB1090 5.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz USB Interface Sound Card - Sound Cards ???


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## Chris15 (Oct 7, 2008)

OK so the hum eliminators are something like this:
-|>|-
-|<|-
with both end ends linked. End 1 connects to mains, end 2 connects to outlet.

What this means is that any current that wants to flow to Earth needs to overcome the voltage drop inherent to a silicon diode, 0.67 volts. Anything of lesser magnitude will not pass through. The theory goes that any real fault will be more than 0.7V and so will pass whereas normal hum is less than that...

The ART iso transformer should work as well as any other iso. What it won't do is convert your 1V line level signal to a 100mV line level signal, use a DI Box for that... If you want line level in and out, it should work fine.


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## Hughesie (Oct 11, 2008)

i can recommend the edirol ua series
EDIROL UA-25 24 bit/96 kHz USB Audio Capture :: Overview

worked well for the production i used it on.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 12, 2008)

Hughesie89 said:


> i can recommend the edirol ua series
> EDIROL UA-25 24 bit/96 kHz USB Audio Capture :: Overview
> 
> worked well for the production i used it on.



That is nice, but its a little pricey for me. It probably does a lot more than i need it to do as well. I just need to use the USB port in order to bypass the headphone out ports that hum.


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## avkid (Oct 12, 2008)

How about this?
Buy Tascam US-122L USB2.0 Audio/Midi Computer Interface at Musician's Friend


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 14, 2008)

avkid said:


> How about this?
> Buy Tascam US-122L USB2.0 Audio/Midi Computer Interface at Musician's Friend



Good Find! Thanks. This will definitely be one of the ones that I choose from, it appears to have pretty good versatility. Do you think it will eliminate the hum that I get from my 3.5mm headphone out?


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## avkid (Oct 14, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> Good Find! Thanks. This will definitely be one of the ones that I choose from, it appears to have pretty good versatility. Do you think it will eliminate the hum that I get from my 3.5mm headphone out?


It should.


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## howlingwolf487 (Oct 14, 2008)

avkid said:


> It should.



+1 for that.


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## jkowtko (Oct 15, 2008)

If the USB devices will all eliminate hum, then you have quite a few to choose from in the low-end range ... I originally suggested the M-Audio FastTrack Pro, and the other suggestions of Edirol and Tascam are right in the same class of device. Also check out the Lexicon Alpha/Lambda/Omega and Tascam US-144. It may come down to a choice of convenience features and/or brand preference. I would still try to stick with balanced outputs if you are connecting to a sound board though.

If anyone has preferences in one unit over the other, please chime in! I'm curious as well.

Thanks. John


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 16, 2008)

UPDATE

My budget has recently increased to around 350 dollars because I some of the cost will be covered for me.


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## avkid (Oct 16, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> UPDATE
> 
> My budget has recently increased to around 350 dollars because I some of the cost will be covered for me.


Is Firewire an option?


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## jkowtko (Oct 17, 2008)

Having more budget doesn't necessarily mean you need to spend more on this. If all you need is stereo outs and the occasional one or two inputs for recording, then one of the above units can be obtained for well under $200 and should last you for a lifetime. Plus, if you get it used, even cheaper. And I haven't known any of these to break, so once you have a working unit, you will likely have a working unit for a long time (at half the price sometimes!)

If, however, you need 6 or 8 outs to handle sound effects during plays (i.e. house fronts, house rears, FX speakers on stage, etc), then you need a larger device like the Tascam US-1641.

Avkid asks a good question -- do you have firewire? The firewire devices seem to be much preferred over USB devices. I personaly don't have firewire on my laptop so it's not an option for me, and my theater desktops have only USB and full-size PCI cards, so I ended up with the M-Audio Deltas for those (and the Deltas work great other than not being portable.)

So, some things to think about. But my suggestion -- if you only need two outputs, buy one of the USB devices already suggested (with balanced outs) in the $150 range used, and put the extra money towards a nice voiceover mic or something else that you will eventually need.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 18, 2008)

avkid said:


> Is Firewire an option?



firewire is available, but only in firewire 1394.


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## howlingwolf487 (Oct 18, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> firewire is available, but only in firewire 1394.



As compared to what else? There are really only 2 types of Firewire - 400 Mb/s and 800Mb/s. The Firewire 400 has 2 types of connectors (4-pin and 6-pin). Firewire 800 has a 9-pin connector.

I would assume by what you said that you have access to Firewire 400 of some sort. There are plenty of interfaces that use format. Look around and find something that fits your budget. I, personally, would look at MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn).

Best of luck!


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 18, 2008)

This isn't USB, but it looks like it would solve my problem. Let me know if you think it would work. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062214&cp=


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## avkid (Oct 18, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> This isn't USB, but it looks like it would solve my problem. Let me know if you think it would work.


 What it isn't USB?


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## Chris15 (Oct 19, 2008)

howlingwolf487 said:


> As compared to what else? There are really only 2 types of Firewire - 400 Mb/s and 800Mb/s. The Firewire 400 has 2 types of connectors (4-pin and 6-pin). Firewire 800 has a 9-pin connector.
> 
> I would assume by what you said that you have access to Firewire 400 of some sort. There are plenty of interfaces that use format. Look around and find something that fits your budget. I, personally, would look at MOTU (Mark of the Unicorn).
> 
> Best of luck!



Firewire is a Mac trademark. The standard is IEEE 1394. IEEE1394b is Firewire 800...

If you have 4 pin firewire, then you should be able to use most things, but they will need to be externally powered, that's what the extra 2 conductors do in 6 pin...

Motu make nice interfaces... They get a plus one for me...


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 22, 2008)

It appears my problem may have been solved. They decided to put in an Allen and Heath ML3000 and an HP desktop computer in the booth. I'm guessing thats what I'll use! That just got installed today.


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## Hughesie (Oct 22, 2008)

bobbyt2012 said:


> It appears my problem may have been solved. They decided to put in an Allen and Heath ML3000 and an HP desktop computer in the booth. I'm guessing thats what I'll use! That just got installed today.



It doesn't really solve the problem as most onboard cards have major power issues.

i would still look for a cheap external thing that at least gives you a ground lift.


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## Chris15 (Oct 24, 2008)

Hughesie said:


> It doesn't really solve the problem as most onboard cards have major power issues.
> 
> i would still look for a cheap external thing that at least gives you a ground lift.



There are some quite good desktop sound cards out there, and most desktops with a discrete sound card aren't too bad. It's something about having to squish everything on top of each other that does nasty things to laptop audio quality...


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## jkowtko (Oct 24, 2008)

If you have a new desktop with full-size PCI slots, check out the M-Audio Delta 44 ... you should be able to get one used in the $75 range. It has four ins, four outs, and really packs a punch. Plug the PC into the same circuit as the sound board, and there will be no ground loop hum.

The USB and (if the desktop has it) firewire external options still apply here. I would still strongly recommend having balanced outputs to eliminate all possible noise. With an ML3000 as the console you definitely should not skimp on the audio quality coming out of the computer ... and for such a small price.


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## bobbyt2012 (Oct 24, 2008)

We bought the computer from Soundcom Systems and it is fitted to run what we needed to. We didn't just head out to best buy or anything. It was made for the theater, or should I say customized. I'll post the sound card specs later, when I get a hold of them.


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## jkowtko (Mar 19, 2009)

So how did this new PC/board config turn out? Can you tell us what the sound interface is?


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## bobbyt2012 (Mar 30, 2009)

jkowtko said:


> So how did this new PC/board config turn out? Can you tell us what the sound interface is?



Well, I think I was wrong. I never got around to checking the specs on the soundcard because I am not up there that often. We don't really use it anyway. We have been using CD's. I was replaced by someone that actually gets a salary anyway.


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