# formulating a price.



## mrtrudeau23 (Jan 19, 2010)

I am currently working on a lighting design for a high school (with whom I have worked before) production of Grease. I will be drafting, hanging, focusing and writing the show. They said they would pay me out of their ticket sales, but they asked me to name a price. They also want me to do a day of demonstration on the board, different fixtures etc. I am a junior in college, working on my BFA in Tech.
How would you go about putting together a reasonable price for this?


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## chris325 (Jan 19, 2010)

I think it really depends on what the school has paid you previously, and if this is considerably different than previous experiences with this school (as in, more responsibilities.)

I assume that the other work you did with the school was paid, not volunteer or internship.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Jan 20, 2010)

the first time wasn't paid. second time was a last minute thing because their person they contracted with didn't do what they wanted and they paid me what they could at the end. now i don't know what to say to them because this is the first time they are actually offering me a contract to do this.


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## DuckJordan (Jan 20, 2010)

I'm assuming they are wanting a overall price and not a man hours price. Considering that college pros in the audio field get paid $15 a man hour for audio work. i would say that might be a good base is to find out how much you should get paid for a man hour and then find out how many man hours you could estimate it taking you on completeing the job. then decide from there i would guess... when running audio and lights for local buisinesses in our theater i charge them $25 a man hour to hang, focus, and gel lights, run the sound board and run the lighting console. if that helps at all.


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## erosing (Jan 20, 2010)

First, I would make sure you cover your costs: food and gas.

Second, how well off is the school? If it's a ritzy private school I would be more inclined to charge closer to an actual day rate than if it were a small school with little to no budget. This may sound bad to some people, but if someone can afford my day rate, that is what I ask for, if I know that it is unreasonable for me to charge them that amount then I knock it down.

Thirdly, I would look at the amount of work you will actually be doing, you said: drafting, hanging, focusing, cueing, to start with. How big is the venue? Are you going to be doing the hanging/focusing yourself, or will you be leading the students? I use a bracket system for hang and focus, every 50 lights and I bump up the price a set amount, if it's within 10-15 lights over the bracket of 50 I just write it off. If you are not going to be doing much of the physical labor then I would charge less than if you were doing the majority of labor yourself. How long are you is tech, are you going to be there for performances, are you going to be running the board, are you effectively going to be on call if anything goes wrong during the run? If you answered yes, you may want to think about the amount of time that is going to take. Also, how long do you have to do this? If a job is last minute I charge a "rush rate," unless it is a favor to someone when someone got fired/quit/died/etc. 

Fourth, how many seats are in the venue, how many do they normally fill, and what do they charge for admission? If it's a 200 seat venue, and they are only running 5 shows assuming an average of 100 patrons per show at say $10 a ticket, they are making 5000 in sales, at that point I would be inclined to make sure I am not taking more than 5-10% from them. If they are a 1364 seet venue and usually sell pretty well on average, say 935 tickets a night (avg), and they are charging $12 per ticket and they have 10 performances, they are getting my full prices since they are making $112,200 on ticket sales for a 10 show run (I used my old high school for this example). 

I have flat design fees, I don't charge by the hour for designing because I do not want to hastle with people over the number of hours I spent designing, flat rate based on the show is much simpler to deal with for me. My minimum design fee is $100, that is the magic number for me that has always ensured that at the very least my gas and food is covered.

Cueing again depends on the show but it works the same way flat rate based on the show, my lowest rate is $100.

Are you designing from rep? When I design from a rep plot, I lump together a design fee and a programming fee, both based on the size of the show, $250 for a small show, $500 for a medium show, and $1000 for a large show, I generally adjust the price down if the job turns out to be less than advertised. This is also based on the idea that I am still running to rehearsals and am there for tech and shows if needed. 

In the end I usually end up some where between 0-10% of the ticket sales, depending on the size of the show and work involved. 

I would look at the amount of work you think you are going to be doing (hours) and figure out what you think your time is worth (at minimum I would say $10 per hour), then I would look at what it will cost you to do the event (paperwork, gas, food). Take those numbers and make sure you are making a profit, past that, charge what you need to additionally. 

I should note that this is based on instruments being conventionals only, once there are movers, toys, etc, the price goes up accordingly. I won't care about 2 iCues, but if they bring in movers programming will take longer, therefore I will want to charge more. 

I did not touch on drafting yet, or pre-vis, but as far as drafting, if I am given an acurate(or close enough to accurate) drawing of the venue, I don't charge a drafting fee, at that point I consider it part of the design. When I am told that no such document exists, and that I need to make my own I do charge a small drafting fee.

I do not consider pre-vis (ESP Vision, for reference) part of the design process, though I usually will do some for myself if I have time anyways, so if a client asks for pre-vis they get charged for it, pre-cueing as well, if they want it then they will be charged extra. If there are movers involved, they will get charged for me to take accurate measurements of the space if they have not be provided/do not exist.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Jan 20, 2010)

I appreciate the time to write all that out. It really helps a lot. This is the first time I've had the opportunity to get paid for my work in this manner, so I didn't know where exactly to start. Now I do.


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## JChenault (Jan 20, 2010)

Let me take a slightly different slant. You are a student. Do you want to do this work, and will it help you in your studies or future work. If you are trying to put together a portfolio would this show help in that, or do you have better opportunities at your school?


That said I do agree with Arez with his general comments - especially about making sure you cover your costs. 

As to what I charge for the kind of work you are talking about ( I am a retired engineer who has a passion for lighting and do about 8 to 10 shows a year):
For a community theatre that is broke - I design for free.
For an educational program, where we usually use a rep plot in a rented theatre I am paid $300
For a theatre where I am doing the hang / focus level set ( but not running the show) I am paid about $900.

Note that I am not trying to make a living here. This changes a lot of what I charge.


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## museav (Jan 21, 2010)

I'll take a little different approach, driven by my spending part of this week dealing with business licenses, 1099s and Certificates of Insurance for the new year. Apparently you are not a student at the school, member of the group puting on the show or a parent. You are an adult being paid for your expertise, thus you are a profesional in business and that may introduce a whole world of tax and legal issues that need to be considered.

Who is hiring you? Is there going to be some kind of contract defining the scope of work, fees and payment terms? How are you going to deal with taxes? If you are being paid for professional services, then especally when dealing with a school or non-proft, there may need to be some written form of agreement and a method of tracking the payment from them and income to you (1099 or similar).

I know that a lot of public and private schools I work with require anyone working on site or providing certain services to carry specific liability insurance to protect the school should something happen. Since what they're asking includes work on site, are there any such requirements? 

Another consideration is whether you would meet the definition of an independent contractor or an employee. Things like their directing how you do your work, providing any tools used, etc. may make you an employee. That is something they probably want to avoid.

Is this work for hire? Does anything you create belong to you or them?

I am not an expert on these subjects but this is something for which you may want to get some guidance, especially if it may be a recurring service you provide them. If nothing else, some of these issues can affect what you may chargid


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## erosing (Jan 21, 2010)

If you have a little time and about $20-30 to burn, assuming you don't already have it, The Business of Theatrical Design, by Moody, may give you some additional guidance. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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