# Ever been on a stage that scares you...



## photoatdv (Oct 29, 2008)

I had a competition at an unnamed hs last week. The stage there was a little scary. What I noticed/ can remember:
- strip lights tied to a batton with rope
- Plates not on top of weights
- weights stacked on top of plates
- interesting wiring in places


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## DaveySimps (Oct 29, 2008)

That is not a good thing, but unfortunately all to common for educational institutions. They are the largest users of performing arts facilities (according to Dr. Doom), yet they are regularly found in deplorable shape. Mostly from lack of training and delayed maintenance.

~Dave


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## Eboy87 (Oct 29, 2008)

DaveySimps said:


> That is not a good thing, but unfortunately all to uncommon for educational institutions. They are the largest users of performing arts facilities (according to Dr. Doom), yet they are regularly found in deplorable shape. Mostly from lack of training and delayed maintenance.
> 
> ~Dave



That's because the money goes to redo the football field every four years and to the other sports teams 

Do I have a horse in this race? Sort of.


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## derekleffew (Oct 29, 2008)

The $250 million Cirque du Soliel _KÁ_ stage is one of the scariest I have ever seen, even though it is also one of the safest. Likewise the stages for _O_ and _LA REVE_, where one must alternate between fall-protection and SCUBA accoutrement.


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## Van (Oct 29, 2008)

photoatdv said:


> I had a competition at an unnamed hs last week. The stage there was a little scary. What I noticed/ can remember:
> - strip lights tied to a batton with rope
> - Plates not on top of weights
> - weights stacked on top of plates
> - interesting wiring in places


 

Well, all I can say is;

_- strip lights tied to a batton with rope_
Was it good rope? Was it tied with a clove hitch? Then what are you complaining about?


_- Plates not on top of weights_
Plates _should_ be under weights, 'cause it keeps them from falling off the arbor after you finished your pizza, but not under too many weights or they'll crush and you'll have to clean up the porcelain.

_- weights stacked on top of plates_
See Above.

_- interesting wiring in places_ 
I should think you'd be thankful that they were attempting to keep you engaged and interested. 


Been there, done that, Told 'em to keep the **** t-shirt!


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## What Rigger? (Oct 29, 2008)

Van said:


> Well, all I can say is;
> 
> _- strip lights tied to a batton with rope_
> Was it good rope? Was it tied with a clove hitch? Then what are you complaining about?
> ...



Ohh! Ohh! I get it! Van is using "sarcasm" (directed at the venue in question I believe), and like C-3PO once said "it's like a second language to me."

Honestly, the venue we're talking about sounds a lot like Orange Coast College located in (blank city), California.


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## avkid (Oct 29, 2008)

We were having our weekly staff meeting at one of our theatres this August.

Unsurprisingly I was looking at stuff in the ceiling, I saw to my horror a house light fixture hanging by 3 strands of #14 THHN.

I have never mobilized a 3 person safety team faster.


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## cdub260 (Nov 2, 2008)

What Rigger? said:


> Honestly, the venue we're talking about sounds a lot like Orange Coast College located in (blank city), California.



I spent my first couple of years in college at Orange Coast College. I stopped by to say hello to some of my old teachers a couple of months back. They've made quite a few improvements since I was there. Based on what I saw in the brief time I had to visit, it's nowhere near as scary as it once was.


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## photoatdv (Nov 5, 2008)

Nope, It's actually at a high school. The worst part is I had a conversation with the auditorium manager there about it a couple of years ago. At the time the only problem I noticed was that some of the plates were locked about 2 feet above the weights. He basically said they are stuck and if you want to try to fix it, have fun. During this conversation he even admitted to having several runaways (because sombody tried to move a line while somebody elso was reweighting). Tried to explain that no plate on top of weights + runaway = very BAD situation, but don't think he cared.


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## TimMiller (Nov 7, 2008)

since we are talking about fly systems, i learned to put plates between every 5-10 bricks, depending on how many bricks there are. Or when i am in theater that already has weight set to their plot, and then i add lights i place a plate between their weight and the weight i add to counter balance my lights, so i do not have to figure out their weight when we are loading out. What are yalls opinion on placing plates between weights.


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## elite1trek (Nov 7, 2008)

As long as you have a plate on top of the whole thing then it really doesnt matter.


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## saxman0317 (Nov 7, 2008)

Yes!
One of the local theater guilds I volunteer my services for performs in a 200 year old stone building that serves as a convent, church, nursing home, and school. Awkward mix, i know. But the latest reno on the stage was about 50 years ago. All rigging is done with either a single change of direction pully or is fixed, the power coming into the area changes eough that we have started checking the power coming in to our usage before and during every show o eliminate more incidents...(as well as taking extra electical items out of the dressing rooms). Some lights still operate on mean looking knife switches, parts of the stage can't be walked on by heavier people anymore. ...and to top a light strip tied onto a pipe... When i first started there were 2 2*4's lashed together (LASHED..no mechanical fasteners) with 12 pars, 4 Lekos, 4 fernels, and 2 Leprachan dimmers hanging. scary stuff man


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## Eboy87 (Nov 7, 2008)

In all seriousness...


photoatdv said:


> Ever been on a stage that scared you?



Every stage I'm on. They can be the safest stage in the city and I'm still nervous. The minute you lose respect for it is the minute you should find another career.


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## DaveySimps (Nov 7, 2008)

elite1trek said:


> As long as you have a plate on top of the whole thing then it really doesnt matter.



Actually this is not completely correct. Spreader plates distributed within the counterweight weight stack help keep the uprights of the arbors from "mushrooming" should there ever be a runaway set. Thus, helping to save bricks from being thrown off of the arbor after it changes shape from the compression of a crashhing arbor. I will agree that the top plate locked down properly is very important. 

~Dave


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## porkchop (Nov 7, 2008)

elite1trek said:


> As long as you have a plate on top of the whole thing then it really doesnt matter.



I must disagree, on at least one fly system I can think of it wasn't uncommon to have the arbor 3/4 or better full. In this case I'd be more worried about the shock causing the arbor bars to bend and let plates out than them bouncing out from the top. 


None the less on to the OP's topic. I don't know if it technically counts as a "stage" but the show we did in Medellin, Columbia in a bull ring was certainly exciting. The biggest problem was that this was a bull ring with an ice floor (that we brought in) on top of it and they didn't cover the ultra fine sand from the ring.

Things that made this scary:

Our 40k+ pound rig was all supported from the ground cause we couldn't rig there. Doing ground support is always a bit scary, especially with the relatively small amount of experiance we had there.
That dirt got into all of our motors because the locals saw no reason that the motors and their chain couldn't sit on the sand for hours at a time. For those of you that don't use chain motors much you can imagine what dirt does to the motor itself and add on the fact that dry chain = VERY VERY VERY BAD for supporting weight. Then look up one bullet at how much weight we were supporting
In some places the stage area was too small for the extensions necessary to use a motor to lift the towers so they hand to be lifted in......... alternative manors
In some cases when the venue needed to extend a length of wire they just twisted copper together and left it, no wire nuts, no electrical tape. Even after talking to them about this they didn't see any reason I was concerned.
All wardrobe facilities were in the stalls where they feed, house, and eventually slaughtered the bulls. Before you even talk about sanitary concerns, no human was made to be in these kind of places for more than 10 minutes at a time I promise you.
Just getting to the venue was taking you life into your own hands on the roads.
The crane opperator that landed our generator and ice making containers didn't see any reason why really sharp ice skates + feeder cable + 6" round coolant lines where a bad idea.
Last but not least, my translators we Houdini like in their ability to disappear so any time I tried to address most of these problems the people I needed to talk to couldn't understand me and there was no translator to help.


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## elite1trek (Nov 7, 2008)

> I must disagree, on at least one fly system I can think of it wasn't uncommon to have the arbor 3/4 or better full. In this case I'd be more worried about the shock causing the arbor bars to bend and let plates out than them bouncing out from the top.



yes yes yes...I was not saying that the only thing you need is a top plate, I was merely stating that you can put as many plates as you like between the weights, you just always need one on top.

I guess I could have phrased that a little better.


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## porkchop (Nov 7, 2008)

elite1trek said:


> yes yes yes...I was not saying that the only thing you need is a top plate, I was merely stating that you can put as many plates as you like between the weights, you just always need one on top.
> 
> I guess I could have phrased that a little better.



If I was in a snarky mood I'd still argue with you there but that at least sounds like better advice.


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## Ekirkpatrick11 (Nov 7, 2008)

Im an auditorium director at HS in recently we invested 4 million dollars in the football field - needless to say the theatre is in the same shape but im not allowed the budget ... i guess hurting people on the field is more important than keeping my crew safe


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## ruinexplorer (Nov 7, 2008)

Maybe you could start providing "entertainment support" for the football team and then siphon off some of their funding. If nothing else, you could get them to buy some new equipment that you could use for special games like homecoming. No, it won't fix the theater, but when you do get the money to do that, you won't have to spend money on new equipment (since you already obtained it).


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## Van (Nov 8, 2008)

ruinexplorer said:


> Maybe you could start providing "entertainment support" for the football team and then siphon off some of their funding. If nothing else, you could get them to buy some new equipment that you could use for special games like homecoming. No, it won't fix the theater, but when you do get the money to do that, you won't have to spend money on new equipment (since you already obtained it).


 
Yeah, Host enough events, in honour of the Football team and sooner < ha> or later some football alum is going to say, " hey we should really fix up this auditorium if we're going to be having awards assemblies in here." Then another guy will say, Hey how about we just build a multi million dollar TV studio/multi-media events facility instead?" Everyone will say" OOOOH, Ahhhhh." and you won't be allowed to use any of the stuff 'cause y'all don't know nothing about TV Lights. 

Am I being Jaded and depressing ? What I need is Hope, got some on Wednesday, just need a booster shot.


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## Wallab (Nov 22, 2008)

Eboy87 said:


> That's because the money goes to redo the football field every four years and to the other sports teams
> 
> Do I have a horse in this race? Sort of.




I am with you on that. At my high school all funds for the auditorium come from choir and band budget. But get this Football and wrestling gets there own budget and buys brand new uniforms every 4 years.

People have to learn life is not all about sports.


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## photoatdv (Mar 4, 2009)

Got another one from an event at a different high school (note I wasn't involved in the tech stuff on this production)
1. the hand lines for 2 of the line sets were really slack (enough so that I saw it from across the stage)
2. One of the slack ones was really out of weight because the back line was really taut and the front one was really slack.
3. A different hand line was caught on it's arbor (couldn't see how)
4. The couldn't run their lights (okay not a safety issue, but it was annoying). It was constantly lights up, down, flicker, BO, to full, down some, ect.


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## Esoteric (Mar 4, 2009)

One thing people often forget is that football gets a seperate budget because it supplies its own funds (and often spill over to fund other departments).

Mike


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## kiwitechgirl (Mar 5, 2009)

There's a theatre here in New Zealand (I'm not going to be any more specific) which is a deathtrap waiting to happen. Apart from the fact that no-one told me it was a raked stage the first time I went in there (nearly lost a pair of flightcased StudioSpots off the front edge!) it's nearly 100 years old and hasn't had any maintenance work done on it for years. The issue is that it hasn't been used as a theatre for years, but has had the stalls seating stripped out and is used for dance parties mostly with the occasional rock concert. The flying system has three or four bars which are still useable, but no-one with any sense hangs anything more than a few parcans on them - unfortunately some of the gigs that come through have cowboys for techs and I've seen enough weight on those bars to scare me. The rest of the bars are unusable, but haven't been decommissioned so if you were really determined and tried hard, you could get them in to the deck and hang something on them. There was a gig in a couple of years ago which was so loud that chunks of plaster were falling out of the roof onto punters. Most concerning of all was when a colleague of mine was in the venue, up in the dome (it's a 3-level theatre) on a walkway and went through it when it gave way underneath him. He landed knees first onto a stained glass panel in the roof, up to his armpits in the walkway - he said it was truly one of those moments when your life flashes before your eyes. Somehow he managed to extricate himself and came down a very lucky and very shaken man. To be fair, essential repairs have been undertaken since then, but it's still not a place I would choose to work. It breaks my heart though, because it's a beautiful, beautiful 1920s art deco venue, with gorgeous relief brass friezes in the foyers, a huge gorgeous marble staircase up to the circle, and could be an absolutely beautiful venue. It has a historic places classification on it, which means that it can't be demolished and has to be kept up to a "reasonable" standard, but it needs millions spent on it. One day hopefully it'll get the refurbishment it deserves, but I'm not holding my breath


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