# TTI Dimmers & Late Night Theater



## Edrick (Dec 7, 2010)

Well off-topic thread here, but a while back I asked some type of question relating to some old dimmers. So I figured I'd update you guys and avkid as I know he mentioned that he thought they were TTI Dimmers. They are in fact TTI Dimmers and they're defiantly built tough. 

Now for the off-topic part, here's a photo of one of the connectors that had some damage to it and some random photos from the night. Was at the theater till 3 AM.


----------



## meatpopsicle (Dec 8, 2010)

Edrick said:


> Now for the off-topic part, here's a photo of one of the connectors that had some damage to it and some random photos from the night. Was at the theater till 3 AM.
> 
> View attachment 4140View attachment 4141View attachment 4143View attachment 4144



So the connector was melted into the dimmer? Love the bent pin. I'm very fond of TTI dimmers so it kind of hurts to see them so messed up. Seems like most of the 20 amp fuse holders broke and they taped them in. I know there are still parts out there. Try Light Parts. Robert Mokry.


----------



## Edrick (Dec 8, 2010)

I've personally never used them but from what I was told is the fuse holder is no longer used and instead the 6 breakers to the right are what is used for protection. 

Luckily they have a bunch of extra Stage Pin connectors so the ones that got melted were replaced.


----------



## Sony (Dec 8, 2010)

If you had posted this say 6 or 7 months ago in June I could have given you at least 20 or 30+ working and undamaged TTI dimmer modules like those you have there. Unfortunately they were left with the old school and are now probably in the recycling, I can't even go over to the old school to look for them because the building is in full out asbestos abatement right now.


----------



## Edrick (Dec 8, 2010)

Hmm well shucks that would of been great but that seems to be my problem I keep running into. I was suppose to get 4 extra banks but they went missing.


----------



## Footer (Dec 8, 2010)

Edrick said:


> Hmm well shucks that would of been great but that seems to be my problem I keep running into. I was suppose to get 4 extra banks but they went missing.


 
I gave away 8 6 packs in various states of working to a theatre in Vermont over the summer. These things are out there. Many places have a pile of them laying around. If you are in need of parts, I have a feeling some people around here might be able to help ya.


----------



## SteveB (Dec 8, 2010)

LiteTrol Service has a large shelf full of TTi dimmers, as well as assorted parts that would renovate the system. 

800 548 3876, Steve Short
They're in Hicksville, NY (Long Island)

FIW, back in the day of TTI, the SCR's, which were very expensive at the time, were generally not sized much larger then the rating of the dimmer. Thus they were very sensitive to dead shorts. As the SCR would blow before the circuit breaker, it was not uncommon to install a KA rating fast blow fuse on the load side. The breaker protects the line side.


----------



## avkid (Dec 8, 2010)

I have 6 of these packs and extra parts.

We are available for service calls in the Boston Metro area.

As Steve said, without those fuses the SCR's are in danger.
They are not expensive anymore, but they're are not exactly easy to find either.


----------



## Edrick (Dec 8, 2010)

What do you think it'd take to refurbish the units (new paint, and repair on fuses etc...). Also are the 6 packs you have just for parts or for sale? I'd like to get ahold of some to have if you guys have them for sale.


----------



## JD (Dec 8, 2010)

The unit uses HPF style fuse holders ( http://www.bussmann.com/library/bifs/2114.PDF ) which are available from multiple sources. If I remember right, on the 2.4k mods, it used a 20 amp breaker AND a 35 amp silver sand rectifier fuse (KAA / KAW) wired in series in the power loop (breaker before dimmer, fuse after.) The breaker would trip for normal overloads, but the high speed (higher rated) fuse would blow on sudden dead shorts, providing much better protection. 

I would bet the fuse holders are bypasses on this unit. That works, but disables an important second layer of protection! I would suggest restoring the unit to it's design. They are nice dimmers! Sad to see one so beat up.


----------



## Edrick (Dec 8, 2010)

I'll have to take a look and talk it over with them, they seem kind of iffy about other help so if I say well hey you should do this they'll probably say well it's been working fine for so many years (aside from burning up connectors and it did catch on fire once). But to them they'll say that probably. But I'll talk to them and see what they want to do.


----------



## Edrick (Jan 13, 2011)

Thanks to AVKid I now have three of these packs that I'm working on for personal use when I do small live events. I'm purchasing new fuse holders and fuses and planning on giving them a new coat of paint and cleaning out the insides. I'll post up pictures of my progress.

One question I have is, on the back there's a door where the cord for the Analog connection is. Is there a circuit board I can directly put inside of these dimmers and just install a DMX connector?


----------



## JD (Jan 13, 2011)

Edrick said:


> One question I have is, on the back there's a door where the cord for the Analog connection is. Is there a circuit board I can directly put inside of these dimmers and just install a DMX connector?


 
You mean like this?


Here is one company: 
Northlight Systems DMX512 decoder, 0-10 VDC output.

There are others. Check out this thread:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...71-diy-dmx-demux-protocol-converters-etc.html


----------



## Edrick (Jan 13, 2011)

I'll give those a look. I'm thinking I can put some risers on the inside of the case to secure the board to.


----------



## SteveB (Jan 13, 2011)

Edrick said:


> One question I have is, on the back there's a door where the cord for the Analog connection is. Is there a circuit board I can directly put inside of these dimmers and just install a DMX connector?



You'd have to do a bit of a hack job to install a DMX to Analog converter inside the individual packs, and it not be cost effective to convert for 6 dimmers at a time. Better maybe to get separate and stand-alone Digital to Analog convertor (Fleenor, ETC, etc...) with the required cables to the Cinch Jones connector used by the packs.


----------



## Anvilx (Jan 14, 2011)

I was looking at the northern lights stuff earlier this morning and the only issue I see is if is installed in an enclosure it would be a PITA to re-address has anyone ever addressed this issue. Pun not intended!


----------



## dramatech (Jan 14, 2011)

Anvilx said:


> I was looking at the northern lights stuff earlier this morning and the only issue I see is if is installed in an enclosure it would be a PITA to re-address has anyone ever addressed this issue. Pun not intended!



Most of the Northernlight boards have an option of mounting the address switches remote from the board. If that is not the case with that particular board give James Cart, owner of Northlight, a call. He loves to do custom stuff for no extra cost.

Tom Johnson


----------



## JD (Jan 14, 2011)

That little board is 8 channels. (Two would not be used.) You would just use 1, 7, and 13 as your starting addresses and the three packs would give you a seamless 18 channels. Looks like they sell the little supply transformers, standoff posts, and anything else you would need. 

Never tried them, but they have been selling them for a few years and I haven't heard anything bad. At $125 per pack or so, (and a bit of work) looks like a nice way to bring an otherwise good 1980's dimmer into the current century. 

TTI dimmers were one of those brands that worked so well, you forgot they were even there. About the only thing needed is a dust-out and cleaning/setting the trim pots.


----------



## Edrick (Jan 14, 2011)

Yeah that's what I figure, I looked at other options that would give 2.4kw a channel and even if I throw 200-250 into these dimmers (DMX Board, Cost of the Dimmer, and Fuse Parts). I'm still saving a boatload compared to other options.

I'm looking at the receptacle / plug I'll need for these units. Would the L6-60P be the correct for Single Phase 240V operation for Locking?


----------



## n1ist (Jan 16, 2011)

I have used that exact board with some blue TTI dimmers. I mounted mine in an external enclosure (since the dimmers were at the facility we were renting) and powered the board with a wall-wart. I see no reason why you couldn't install the board in the dimmer as long as there's a place with suitable spacing from the high voltage wiring and not blocking airflow.
/mike


----------



## JD (Jan 16, 2011)

Edrick said:


> I'm looking at the receptacle / plug I'll need for these units. Would the L6-60P be the correct for Single Phase 240V operation for Locking?


 
Most of the packs I have seen have been equipped with the NEMA 14-50P plug, which is a lot cheaper (4 blade range plug.) It is 50 amp, so you would be de-rating the pack to 12k running off a 50x2 amp breaker. If you expect to fully load the pack at 20 amps per channel, then the 60 amp plug is called for.


----------



## Edrick (Jan 16, 2011)

Would that be expected to see at a venue? I know every place is unique in its own way so it's an impossible question to answer. But I won't be using these for permeant install (which if I was I'd just put a 60A Twist Lock on and call it a day). Now I noticed the unit has both a grounding lug and a neutral bar. However the wiring is only 4 wire (3 hots and a neutral). What's the grounding path in this case? 

As far as the TOS go, hopefully this isn't violating them. As this isn't necessarily, how do I wire it. But what the most versatile connection is we'd see in a touring setup. I know how to properly wire it and all that, just want to make sure I don't get stuck shelling out $30+ for the plug and then have it not be useful.


----------



## mstaylor (Jan 16, 2011)

I am going on memory, which isn't good, but I believe it is set up for single phase, two hots, nuetral and a ground. All the ones I ever used was set that way.


----------



## JD (Jan 16, 2011)

Going by memory here, but the TTI dimmers do not have a "controller" card. Each dimmer mod has it's own ramp generator and firing circuit. Basically, the packs can be set up at the input block for single phase (or two hots) by running 3 modules on each hot, or three phase by running 2 modules on each hot. Each module doesn't much care what the phase of it's income power source is as it is a complete dimmer unto itself.

As for the power distribution question, most large venues supply via cams or tails from a company switch. Smaller venues are anybody's guess. Getting too specific here might be a TOS problem, but in most cases, you need some form of distro unit.


----------



## Edrick (Jan 16, 2011)

The way the dimmers are wired is you have 6 individual breakers and 6 Individual Cards. For Single Phase three breakers are tied together with a copper cutout that sits inside of the three breaker contacts. That will give you 120V @ 60A for One Hot, then 120 V @ 60A for the other Hot feeder. Or in three phase it pairs two breakers onto each phase for 40A / Phase. 

The feed from the breaker is then terminated into a block that runs the length of the pack. One feed off the breaker goes directly to the dimmer module to provide power for receiving signal, another one feeds the actual dimming circuit / fixture. So each breaker has two feeds coming off of it, one strictly for control power, one for dimmer (lighting) power. 

The neutrals off of everything tie back to a neutral bar so you have 6 neutrals from the lighting instrument then one single neutral from the controller. 

All the grounds are tied together from the power connectors (stagepin in this case), then terminated into a lug attached to the chassie. 

Any who just an explanation for the above question as to how the device is wired. 

----

To the topic at hand however I think I'll just wire a 40A Twistlock 3 Phase onto it and call it a day. Then for each venue I'll have to figure out actual power distro.


----------



## JD (Jan 17, 2011)

If you wanted to run the system off of 3 phase, or single phase power, then the packs should be configured for single phase. Because you have three packs, a single phase loading would be AB,AB,AB and a three phase loading would be AB,BC,CA.

Conversely, if the packs are wired for three phase, you cannot get balance on a single phase source as 9 does not divide equally by 2. Example - ABA, BAB, ???


----------



## Edrick (Jan 17, 2011)

The balancing will be an interesting one. The issue with that is for some events I may only need 2 dimmer packs, some all three, or maybe even one.


----------



## mstaylor (Jan 18, 2011)

If you have a distro to plug them into, the number of packs is just a matter of how many you plug into it or how much power you available at the venue.


----------



## Edrick (Jan 24, 2011)

I was able to go over to the supply house today and Barbizon to get the stage pin connectors. I only purchased one for now to test to make sure it worked how I wanted to. I must say it works perfectly, the old cords were just using a screw down NM clamp. This metal mesh strain relief works great and doesn't crush the cord at all, plus allows for a nice tail. 

Luckily I called my supply house as I got the 12/3 SOOW for 85 cents a foot as opposed to the $1.25 at Barbizon. The plan is to replace all of the old stage pin connectors with these new ones and mesh reliefs. Along with all new paint.


----------



## derekleffew (Jan 31, 2011)

Edrick said:


> ...This metal mesh strain relief works great and doesn't crush the cord at all, plus allows for a nice tail.


Well, that's certainly one way. Loose, floppy "nice tails" are generally not preferred for touring equipment. Perhaps a better (and possibly less expensive) alternative is to use panel mount 2P&G receptacles, 


and having a new panel punched if necessary.


----------



## avkid (Jan 31, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Well, that's certainly one way. Loose, floppy "nice tails" are generally not preferred for touring equipment. Perhaps a better (and possibly less expensive) alternative is to use panel mount 2P&G receptacles,
> 
> 
> and having a new panel punched if necessary.


Some of theses dimmers do have individual receptacles, we also have one with a bakelite block that has female pins connected to the back.


----------



## JD (Jan 31, 2011)

All of the TTI dimmers I remember had the panel mount connectors. Much cleaner to move around. Of course, I didn't see many traveling. Most of the ones I saw were part of a house system, usually at small dinner theaters. They were all over the place back in the 80's. That and EDI scrimmers and scrimmeretts. (spell)


----------



## Edrick (Jan 31, 2011)

Short of a new panel the relief like that is the best option.


----------



## Les (Jan 31, 2011)

Edrick said:


> Short of a new panel the relief like that is the best option.


 
Also known as a Kellems Grip.


----------



## Anvilx (Jan 31, 2011)

Could anyone recommend a well priced source for a panel with cut outs for a whole mess of stagepin connectors. I am about ready to buy some blank rack panels and a bunch of blades for my jigsaw and just cut the bloody things myself.


----------



## derekleffew (Feb 1, 2011)

Anvilx said:


> ...I am about ready to buy some blank rack panels and a bunch of blades for my jigsaw and just cut the bloody things myself.


The operative word being "bloody." Resist the urge, or you'll regret it.

Union Connector, SSRC, City Theatrical, _et al_ will do custom panels, but your local metal shop with a punch press will likely be less costly and faster.


----------



## dramatech (Feb 1, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> The operative word being "bloody." Resist the urge, or you'll regret it.
> 
> Union Connector, SSRC, City Theatrical, _et al_ will do custom panels, but your local metal shop with a punch press will likely be less costly and faster.



Lightronics sells a panel that holds 12 stage pin connectors. It is standard audio/electronics rack panel size: 19 inches wide. On Ebay it sells "buy it now" with the connectors for $300. The connectors alone are about $60, so the panel and labor to mount the connectors is $240. Seems a bit high, but you can use the info to compare local sheet metal fabrication.

Tom Johnson


----------



## northcoastlts (May 10, 2012)

Hi, everyone.
I've got a 6-channel TTI dimmer pack MDS Model E (2.4KW) available if anyone needs parts for one. No charge for parts; but I would like to be reimbursed for shipping.
You can email me at [email protected].
Dave


----------

