# Framing Lumber



## Shawzborne (Jul 5, 2012)

What type of framing lumber is preferred to be used in scenic construction? Give two reasons why?

Thank-you,

Shawn


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 5, 2012)

Why does this sound so much like a homework question?


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## Shawzborne (Jul 5, 2012)

Cause it is...But not for school


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## JLNorthGA (Jul 5, 2012)

What sort of framing lumber? Depends. I like using 1 x 4 at various lengths. Easy to work with, readily available from my local supplier and cheap. I can get a couple of pieces of 1 x 4 x 14' and one piece of a 1 x 4 x 8' and I have enough lumber for a 10' flat (our usual size). It costs me under $30 for a single flat ($15 for the framing lumber and $15 for the Lauan plywood).


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## Shawzborne (Jul 5, 2012)

I didnt know if there is a generally preferred type?


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## derekleffew (Jul 5, 2012)

What did the farmer do yesterday?

_Dug Fur_. He _dug fer_ a long right while. He _doug fir_ tators, carrots, onions.

From The Stagecraft Handbook - Daniel A. Ionazzi - Google Books :

> pine, hemlock and fir have characteristics more suitable to constructing scenery. ... *Douglas fir* and Southern pine are good choices under these conditions.


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## Van (Jul 11, 2012)

Doug Fir and and straight pine used to be acceptable for framing nowdays most #2 or better Doug Fir is total crap and clear pine is prohibitivly expensive. Hemlock is another really expensive choice. I use mostly Doug fir for rough framing. If it's important framing I use Radiata Pine, or this new stuff I just found.... and I can't remember the name of. When I remember I'll post it.


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## TEarlywine (Jul 12, 2012)

We purchase a lot of pine 1x12 for framing (our lumber yard's #2 is still pretty good) and we rip to size as we usually have labor $ but low supplies $ (the weird world of Park & Rec budgeting). Stock is 1x6 for platform framing with 3/4"ply top, and 1x3 for most hard flats, to maximize the 1x12's potential. Our lumber yard now offers bundles of ok pine 1x3 at a good price; they call it "studio pine". With 1x12 prices going up its now cheaper to buy these for our 1x3. (non-carpenters please note: all dimensions are nominal)


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## kicknargel (Jul 16, 2012)

We've almost entirely abandoned 1x SPF (spruce/pine/fir) because the quality has gotten so bad. We generally rip plywood (often paint grade birch/maple vaneer) into framing lumber. Not as strong as good 1x, and a small pain to scab together longer lengths, but it stays straight.


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## Robert (Jul 16, 2012)

I rip 1 x 12 #3 Ponderosa Pine for flat framing. I think some people call it Surgar Pine? I admit I must cull out and save the longer pieces since I do get a lot of breakage in the lumber due to knots, but I never really have a problem getting enough longer pieces. I find that Ponderosa Pine is lighter and easier for my students to work with then yellow pine. I typically cut it into 1 x 3 (actual) for tall and large flats, both hard or soft covered. For shorter flats I rip it into 1 x 1 1/2 (actual). These flats may be up to 12' tall and are always hard covered. I find with adequate glue and staples and with diagonals in the corners I have no problem with the strength of the flats. On my hard covered flats I no longer use any corner blocks or keystones as I feel the luan covering fulfills that requirement. This is also partly due to a storage issue as the corner blocks add 1/4" to every flat in my inventory. 
For platforms I use 2 x 4 spruce and 3/4" BC ply. I use spruce as it is lighter and easier for my students to drive screws into. I also have a storage issue with my platforms, so 1 x 6 framing on my platforms would not work.


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## Van (Jul 16, 2012)

I found the lumber I was refering to in my earlier post. The place I'm ordering from simply refers to it as "Gorman Pine" it's from the Gorman Bro's lumber mill in BC. Wish I could reccomend a domestic source but everything I've seen in stores that is from Oregon is crappy 3rd and 4th generation pine and is not worth using. Oregon has a motto " Oregon will never grow out of trees." I'd ammend that by adding, "Yeah we'll always have the crappy ones...".


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## gafftaper (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm not sure what the original question was. 

a) Did you mean what species of wood? If that's the question then the answer depends on where you are in the world. The species cheap framing grade of lumber varies depending on what grows best locally. Here in the NW as Van said that's Doug Fir. In other parts of the US it's pine. Heck in some parts of the world the answer is a hard wood. Just do your best to find some decent #2 or #1 (if you can afford it) grade wood. Don't just assume they are all the same, get to know your local lumber yards to find out who has the best wood. Around here I get it at a local company. They wood costs a few cents more than Lowes/Home Depot but it's nice and straight with few knots or wane. 

b) Did you mean what dimensions are preferred? For that the answer is whatever is the lightest weight (and cheapest) material that will get the job done. I try to keep a stock of: 2x6, 2x4, 2x3, 2x2, 1x6, 1x4, 1x3, and 1x2. In plywood I stock: 3/4, 5/8, a few 1/4 (not as much as the others), and lots of luan. For luan I get both the really thin "door skin" type and this thicker stuff. I can't remember the thickness but I get it at lowes and it's the only thing they stock that is measured metric... it's something like 1.1 centimeter. It's cheaper than the classic luan and nicer to work with.


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## Shawzborne (Jul 16, 2012)

I am looking for the preferred species and grade in Toronto.

Thank-you,

Shawn


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## TEarlywine (Jul 16, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> For luan I get both the really thin "door skin" type and this thicker stuff. I can't remember the thickness but I get it at lowes and it's the only thing they stock that is measured metric... it's something like 1.1 centimeter. It's cheaper than the classic luan and nicer to work with.



(1.1 centimeter is close to 1/2"!)

"1/8-in" lauan = 2.7mm (3/32")
"1/4-in" lauan = 5.2mm (3/16")

p.s. pine from Gorman is, indeed, lovely


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## gafftaper (Jul 16, 2012)

Shawzborne said:


> I am looking for the preferred species and grade in Toronto.


Assuming that the grading system is the same, go with #2 if it's straight and doesn't have a lot of wood missing... you would be amazed at the swiss cheese wood you sometimes find as #2. If you can afford it #1 will be better (straighter and more square). Some applications you need #1, other times you can work with some pretty bad bent #3. It depends on your carpentry skills and the job. Since you have to ask the question I would say you probably aren't that expert and so you should go with the higher grade if you can afford it. Straight wood makes you a better carpenter. Don't worry about species, just go with whatever is cheapest at your lumber yard. Be sure to take your time and hand inspect each piece if you can. I dig deep in the lumber rack to find the very best pieces. Sometimes it's great sometimes it's all terrible. Shop around to find who has the best wood for your money... don't just go with cheapest. 


Do you know how to judge a good piece of wood from a bad one? 



TEarlywine said:


> (1.1 centimeter is close to 1/2"!)


Sorry I guess I was shooting off the top of my head with a couple of obnoxious kids over my shoulder. Now that I look at a ruler... it's probably more like 3.5 mm that I'm thinking of.


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## zmb (Jul 17, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> I dig deep in the lumber rack to find the very best pieces. Sometimes it's great sometimes it's all terrible. Shop around to find who has the best wood for your money... don't just go with cheapest.



It's like that too whenever I pick up lumber. Sucks when the whole rack is out and has to get put back.

Locally, for gafftaper and others in the Seattle Area, Dunn Lumber, a local chain lumber company, has better wood that Home Depot and Lowe's and I think is also a better value. In other areas, are dedicated lumber yards providing better quality than big box stores?

My dad did some custom sized platforms this year that are all plywood and are screwed together with the holes filled and sanded. They come out very solid, but take a while to build compared to more conventional ones. Plus side is the repeatable quality that comes with plywood.


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## gafftaper (Jul 17, 2012)

zmb said:


> Locally, for gafftaper and others in the Seattle Area, Dunn Lumber, a local chain lumber company, has better wood that Home Depot and Lowe's and I think is also a better value.



Yep, in Seattle Dunn is the place to shop, it tends to cost a few cents more but their wood is better, they have a wider selection, and with a $250 order they deliver for free (which is really convenient). My guess is there's a similar lumber yard in every city. They simply take better care of the wood before you buy it than the big box stores. Yes you pay more but you get a better product.

Also always buy your screws, nails, nuts, and bolts ANYWHERE but Lowes/Home Depot. They always charge significantly more for fasteners than the local lumber yard does. I've seen bolt and lag screws that cost three to four times more at Home Depot/Lowes than they do at my local Lumber yard. The big guys undercut everyone in the cost of lumber to get you in the door, then jack up the cost of fasteners to get the money back. 

That said, I do spend a lot of time at Lowes/Home Depot. I get my big order before a show starts from my local guy. Then I usually end up doing my follow up shopping late at night at Lowes/Home Depot on my way home from the theater. I miss the good old days when they were open 24/7. Home Depot at 2am was fun!


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## TEarlywine (Jul 17, 2012)

We use Van Arsdale-Harris in SF Bay Area. They store most wood indoors, and will even send us Gorman pine without my specifying, and our area rep visits occasionally and brings us free pencils. They are pricier and charge for delivery, but its reasonable considering the cost of me picking it up, even at the local Home Depot. Agree also: Home Depot may be cheaper per foot, but the time definitely costs more to dig for decent pieces, and/or deal with issues while building.

Off to get some cheap paint mixed at Home Depot... THAT is something I wish I could get there at 2am! would be a much shorter line 

(p.s. Gaff, I didn't intend to "call you out" on the dimension ...bad exclamation point).


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## Benjod82 (Jul 19, 2012)

In grad school we used to use "D Spruce" which was a clear or almost clear spruce, 1x6 ripped to 2.5". When budgets shrank and wood went up in price we actually switched to a product called "primed pine" which was a primed board made up of varying lengths of clear pine and dovetailed together, it was the same size as 1x6 andwe would rip it to 2.5" as well. Still not cheap but was as strong as the real thing and never warped.


Shawzborne said:


> What type of framing lumber is preferred to be used in scenic construction? Give two reasons why?
> 
> Thank-you,
> 
> Shawn


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