# Newbie



## Marya2639 (Jan 26, 2008)

Hi my soon to be former boss just recommeded this site to me. I resently got a job with Feld Enterainment and will be leaving for Europe soon. Yeah!!! I am interested in lighting and I cant wait to learn with all of you.


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## Hughesie (Jan 26, 2008)

Controlbooth is a great place to question and learn and who knows you might even help someone out down the track.


everyone has a special area of knowledge

oh and watch out for the one called "gafftaper"


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## gafftaper (Jan 26, 2008)

Welcome to the booth Marya. It's amazing how much knowledge is here. Get to know the search function. The archives are large and MANY interesting topics have already been covered. Jump in and join the conversation! The more voices the better. 


As for Hughesie, he's just a spoiled rich brat from down under with some funky glasses. I suspect he is part bandicoot. There is no need to fear him, but don't touch or feed him.


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## Chris15 (Jan 26, 2008)

Welcome to the Chaos...

Is this former boss of yours someone who we would know by some username? Or if you would prefer not to mention it, that's fine as well.


Now, the normal spiel... The search feature should become your friend. Don't be afraid to bring back old topics, IF you have something constructive to add. Ask questions, answer questions and all that caper. These days we seem to fall off topic much more than we used to, but we do try to answer the original question amongst the civil unrests and domestic disputes. Folks are bound to ask if you have a website, and were you in a permanent space, they'd be wanted to know the specs of said space.

Alex, I thought we'd established that this "gafftaper" was an alterego of this "Mark"... And one or both of them think we confuse them. HA.


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## Hughesie (Jan 26, 2008)

Strewth, what about us would give him that idea mate?


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## avkid (Jan 26, 2008)

Marya2639 said:


> I resently got a job with Feld Enterainment and will be leaving for Europe soon.


How long did you have your resume in the "pool"?
Welcome.


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## Van (Jan 26, 2008)

Charlie you'regonna scare her off before she has a chance to ask a question!

Welcome Aboard! Hope you have fun and learn a lot here. There's certainly a large base of info to draw from.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 26, 2008)

Well, i'll chime in. Mary worked for me, and will until she departs for FELD. Now I need a new crewton... In reality though, I am quite happy for her, and I hope that she has a great time with them. I also hope that she becomes a good member of CB, I told her that we could answer any question she might have.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 27, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> What is a crewton? Did you mean crouton?
> But seriously though, is that a term I don't know, or a typo?


Crewton - one who works on a crew


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## Marya2639 (Jan 27, 2008)

avkid said:


> How long did you have your resume in the "pool"?
> Welcome.


They called me back within a week of sending my resume.


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## avkid (Jan 27, 2008)

Marya2639 said:


> They called me back within a week of sending my resume.


You can't talk anymore.
(2.5 months)


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## gafftaper (Jan 27, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Hi Marya, I usually don't pipe up in these threads, so I'm not good with the normal spiel.


He only posts when the new member is female. 

icewolf08 said:


> Well, i'll chime in. Mary worked for me, and will until she departs for FELD. Now I need a new crewton... In reality though, I am quite happy for her, and I hope that she has a great time with them. I also hope that she becomes a good member of CB, I told her that we could answer any question she might have.


Mary if you worked for Alex, you are already part of the family! Good thing you are finally escaping his clutches. Could you tell us the true story about him busting up the parking garage at the LDS convention center in the company van. 

Marya2639 said:


> They called me back within a week of sending my resume.




avkid said:


> You can't talk anymore.
> (2.5 months)


Wow and she one ups Phil in her second post YOU ROCK MARY!


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## derekleffew (Jan 27, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> Well, i'll chime in. Mary worked for me, and will until she departs for FELD. Now I need a new crewton... In reality though, I am quite happy for her, and I hope that she has a great time with them. I also hope that she becomes a good member of CB, I told her that we could answer any question she might have.


Welcome, Mary. I hope the Feld job is everything you want it to be...but, enough said. Are you allowed to tell us what tour you'll be on? Red or Blue? Does Europe have the internet?

Alex, as soon as you get that full-size grandMA, I'm there for you! I'm guessing my hourly rate is your show rate, but we can negotiate.


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## Chris15 (Jan 27, 2008)

Hughesie89 said:


> Strewth, what about us would give him that idea mate?



Please contextualise that statement so that if I'm expected to answer it I might be able to...


derekleffew said:


> Does Europe have the internet?



I'm reliably informed that this is the case...


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## derekleffew (Jan 27, 2008)

Chris15 said:


> ...I'm reliably informed that this is the case...


Well, I was just asking because we don't seem to have many Europeans here on CB. Except for Meghan, does Israel count as Europe?

Derek 
(ugly American and proud xenophobe--I worked with Xenotechs for five years.)


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## Chris15 (Jan 27, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Well, I was just asking because we don't seem to have many Europeans here on CB. Except for Meghan, does Israel count as Europe?
> 
> Derek
> (ugly American and proud xenophobe--I worked with Xenotechs for five years.)



Getting into the details, Israel is actually a part of Asia, s is the rest of the Middle East. I think the bigger issue is that much of Europe use English as a secondary, tertiary or quaternary language, not their primary as so we probably don't show up as high in their search results on Google etc...


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## soundlight (Jan 27, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Well, I was just asking because we don't seem to have many Europeans here on CB. Except for Meghan, does Israel count as Europe?



Wrong user, Derek, it's not Meghan. Meghan's out in Foster City. You're looking for miriam.


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## derekleffew (Jan 27, 2008)

Oh, so Foster City is in Israel, Asia? Got it now. Thanks.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 27, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Well, I was just asking because we don't seem to have many Europeans here on CB. Except for Meghan, does Israel count as Europe?
> Derek
> (ugly American and proud xenophobe--I worked with Xenotechs for five years.)


Though Israel is located in the middle east, I think of it as a european country. Though there are other issues with that, given they don't use the euro, nor are they part of the EU.


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## Logos (Jan 27, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> Though Israel is located in the middle east, I think of it as a european country. Though there are other issues with that, given they don't use the euro, nor are they part of the EU.



But they do enter the Eurovision song contest. Anyone remember Dana International?

Hey do you guys get to see the Eurovision Song Contest. A magnificent display of totally kitsch europop. I haven't missed one for years. Last year the show was run on 8 linked GrandMA boards.


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## Marya2639 (Jan 28, 2008)

avkid said:


> You can't talk anymore.
> (2.5 months)


How mean. I just applied on a whim I never expected them to call me so fast. They caught me completely off guard.


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## Hughesie (Jan 28, 2008)

yeah i have been trying to beat gaff at that to

i even called myself the dark side of controlbooth at one stage, but i failed


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## derekleffew (Jan 28, 2008)

Logos said:


> But they do enter the Eurovision song contest. Anyone remember Dana International?
> 
> Hey do you guys get to see the Eurovision Song Contest. A magnificent display of totally kitsch europop. I haven't missed one for years. Last year the show was run on 8 linked GrandMA boards.


And the year(s) before that they used 8? ETC Congos. I don't think it is broadcast in the US.


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## Logos (Jan 28, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Is that number of consoles overkill? I hear these things from you guys, and I can't help but wonder if it was necessary, and was really all that helpful for the price-point, are people just doing these things because they have the resources?
> "GOD ****IT THIS SHOW NEEDS 65 UNIVERSES! I DON'T CARE IF THE LIMIT is 64! LET'S JUST LINK TOGETHER EVERY GRANDMA ON THE EASTERN SEABOARD!"
> (Yes I caught the "GRANDMA", I thought I'd leave it in for Derek to make fun of me... )



That's actually a good question. I have the rig somewhere I haven't looked at it for a long while but they had something like 1200 movers plus video plus all sorts of things I don't even pretend to understand.
The funding is extraordinary for Eurovision and its probably something like:
"The budget for lighting is 20 million Euro's" 
"Really, how the hell are we going to spend that?"
"No idea but if you don't we'll only get 10 million next year." 
"Well OK where's that equipment list? How many Showguns are there in Finland anyway? That's not enough lets get another 500 from Germany." 

And for the end result.

Someone from Serbia wins with a song that vanishes without trace even on the European market.

The previous year a fantastic heavy metal band from Finland won. I loved them they were great.


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## avkid (Jan 29, 2008)

Marya2639 said:


> How mean. I just applied on a whim I never expected them to call me so fast. They caught me completely off guard.


Pardon me, my use of sarcasm is horrible.


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## Hughesie (Jan 29, 2008)

i think it was another event similar to that that had 24 of high end's video servers running on it.

oh and charc for the grand-ma desk joke you better be running for the hills.


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## derekleffew (Jan 29, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Is that number of consoles overkill? I hear these things from you guys, and I can't help but wonder if it was necessary, and was really all that helpful for the price-point, are people just doing these things because they have the resources?


Yes and no. Take an event such as the Opening and Closing Ceremonies of the 2002 Sydney Olympics, in deference to our Austrian friends. The programming process is well-documented via a daily journal in the appendix of Brad Schiller's Book, _The Automated Lighting Programmer's Handbook_. And I heard the stories first hand from one of the programmers. A WholeHogII, arguably the best available console at the time, could only do 4-7 universes. Due to the sheer numbers of lights, 8 consoles were needed just to get the proper amount of DMX channels/universes. Another 8 as backups. And one Strand 550i plus backup for the conventionals. The 550 opeerator had the hardest time of all.

Now today, while a grandMA and Virtuoso and others might be able to do 64 universes, with Media Servers often taking up just over half a universe, and the XspotXtreme needing 38 channels each, one could still run out of DMX channels. 
But more importantly, to put the responsibility of programming that many devices on just one operator, under extreme time pressures, is just impossible/ludicrous. No one could push buttons fast enough. Thus, "distributed processing" or in this case, "distributed programming." One guy and one board just does all the Profile lights, another all the soft edge lights, another just the Showguns, the girl with the conventionals, etc. OR, One console for just the audience lights, one for the overhead lights, one for the floor lights, one for media servers, etc. In a way it harkens back to a Broadway show with 6 piano boards. And I can see where most people would think it's "over-kill." There's also manufacturers' bragging rights, but that's another topic, really.

To take a more recent example, _Young Frankenstein_ on Broadway, which you may get to see if you behave and are willing to sell your first-born son, uses three lighting desks. Moving Lights on the EOS, Conventionals on the ObsessionII, and Projection on the grandMA. Yes, any of those boards might have been able to handle the entire show, but it's more efficient time-wise to pay three top programmers who are each in their own world.

A well-known magic duo show here in LV started with, I think eight "lighting" consoles, each from a different manufacturer and chosen as they were the best at the time for their dedicated task. I think over time they got it down to four or five. Eventually the scrollers were put on the conventional desk. Atmospherics and projection were combined, as they used the same brand of desk. Non-DMX devices, requiring proprietary controls, were upgraded, etc.

The last major TV award show I did had, I think four desks and four operators/programmers, representing three or four manufacturers.


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## Chris15 (Jan 29, 2008)

Derek, 2000, not 2002!

There is very little in an Olympic ceremony that does not have some form of redundant backup. Sound and lights I know, the rest I presume follow suit. It's not that they know of any problems, it's just cheap insurance - yes 100s of thousands in consoles IS cheap...

Take sound for instance in Athens. Mics that mattered were dual capsule, dual power supply models. Radio mics had dual receivers, one at FOH, one elsewhere. Consoles were duplicated. The outputs ran on optocore, in itself having redundancy galore, and analog copper backups were also run. So right up until the Lake processors was duplicated. The lakes were configured such that the moment they lost AES / EBU signal to revert to the copper. This changeover can also be manually triggered. The guys who do these gigs spend MONTHS asking "what if" and then building a way around virtually every possible contingency. Oh, did I mention that almost all the Olympic audio had dual power supplies. These were fed from different GRIDS.

These days, with the advent of Colour web and such things,a dozen universes in an LED curtain is quite normal, and in fact is looking a little to the small end. Ethernet is now everyone's friend.

And to use an example, the MTV awards last year in Sydney used 2 separate line array systems, one for the bands, the other just for the speeches. In corporate event land, dollars don't matter so much as getting the feel they want. If that takes 8 consoles, so be it...


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## gafftaper (Feb 3, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> To take a more recent example, _Young Frankenstein_ on Broadway, which you may get to see if you behave and are willing to sell your first-born son, uses three lighting desks.



Young Frankenstein had it's pre-Broadway test run here in Seattle early last fall. It got rather poor reviews and tickets were readily available the entire time it was here. Word on the street was that Mel Brooks pushed his luck too far, he had lost his touch, and it was a very expensive disaster. Apparently, things have changed on the drive to New York.


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