# Are designers considered technicians?



## Anonymous067 (Mar 20, 2010)

Are the designers of a show still considered technicians?

EDIT: techie > technician


----------



## Footer (Mar 20, 2010)

I am going assume you meant "technicians". No, they are artistic staff one level down from the director. Depending on the theatre they still might do actual work such as program, pattern draft, or paint. They are not part of the technical staff in the grander scheme of things.


----------



## photoatdv (Mar 20, 2010)

Haven't we already determined that beyond a high school level, "techies" don't exist? I suspect I might get laughed at if I went to work and called our crew techies...


----------



## MPowers (Mar 20, 2010)

Are Designers Techies??? Hmmmm. Well, first of all there is a certain back lash about the word "techie". Back in the Stone Age when I broke into the business, the term was one to be proud of, and stagehands, roadies, sparkies, riggers, et al were all part of that group. In the late 80's I even wrote a column for a mag titled "The Techie's Corner". Due to use, abuse and over use, the term has changed meaning and now is most often connected to a condescending title used by clueless directors, producers and talent. 

But, back to your original question, some designers are and always will be "techies", some will never be, no matter how many nails they drive. I have worked with designers who never have and never will, pick up a tool, yet they are considered technicians by all who work with them. There are others who help build and paint the product, but they are not “techies”. You will never have trouble identifying which is which. It is a mind set, a camaraderie that sets apart the one from the other. 

One looks on the technicians and craft of the stagehand, the machinery and technology as a necessary evil to be abided in order to achieve their artistic goal, the other treats those elements as friends and collaborators in the production of a work of art. 

Officially, as Kyle said, they are artistic staff, not technicians.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger – 
Theatre Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa, Central Lighting & Equipment


----------



## bishopthomas (Mar 20, 2010)

Well, I'm in the concert world so maybe not really what you're asking but... I design shows, I buy or rent the gear, I transport it to the gig, I set it all up, I operate it, then I put it all back in cases, into the truck, and back to the shop. So in my case, yes, this designer is also a "techie."


----------



## Anvilx (Mar 20, 2010)

Can we sticky that thread on techie vs. Technician or at least recommend to all new members that they read it. It seems like this comes up all the time.


----------



## Anonymous067 (Mar 20, 2010)

Anvilx said:


> Can we sticky that thread on techie vs. Technician or at least recommend to all new members that they read it. It seems like this comes up all the time.



I resent the phrase "new members" though I'm sure it wasn't directed straight at me.

Sorry for using the word "techie"...didn't realize it was so controversial.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 21, 2010)

Thread "stickied." I think requiring new members to read it may be going too far.

Technician vs Techie


----------



## edmedmoped (Mar 21, 2010)

They've been acknowledged seperately from technicians in every show I've done so I'd say no.


----------



## Anonymous067 (Mar 21, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> Thread "stickied." I think requiring new members to read it may be going too far.
> 
> Technician vs Techie



Considering it's 11 pages long?

You can change the name of the thread to technician if you want to (and I would prefer it...).


----------



## JChenault (Mar 21, 2010)

I think it depends on what the designer does. Sometimes when I do a lighting design, I also serve as the master electrician for the show. In this case I am a technician as well as the designer. Sometimes I am working in a fully staffed facility where I don't have to touch a fixture ( but usually do if it will help out ). In this case I do not consider myself a technician ( nor do the technicians on the crew ).

Now is the role of the designer in the real of technician - I would argue that it is not - although the person doing the design may take on multiple roles.


----------



## Anonymous067 (Mar 21, 2010)

I was just asking because I was brought on as a Designer for the spring musical at the high school. The two board ops under me have worked one show in the fall, so know the basics, but not much. I know the entire system and am the vet in the booth as well (though I am going to try to sit in the house for at least one show!).

I was actually told last week at tech not to touch any tools because it's "not my job"!!! haha.

However, seeing that these two are still newer, I feel that as far as mic placement for the pit etc etc, I may end up helping with technician type work...

I would assume (at least in my position) that it's one of those...if something happens, I can still step in and do anything of the people I am overseeing. However, I understand professional environments may not work like this.


----------



## Footer (Mar 21, 2010)

Blah067 said:


> I was just asking because I was brought on as a Designer for the spring musical at the high school. The two board ops under me have worked one show in the fall, so know the basics, but not much. I know the entire system and am the vet in the booth as well (though I am going to try to sit in the house for at least one show!).
> 
> I was actually told last week at tech not to touch any tools because it's "not my job"!!! haha.
> 
> ...



Sound designers are more technicians then most designers are. Lighting designers can get away with not touching anything. Scenic designers will usually throw some paint but never touch a saw. Costume designers will be at every fitting and might do some pattern drafting/draping but will never touch a sewing machine. Sound on the other hand is a different animal. In many theatres it is the sound designer that personally mics up the pit and places mics on the actors at the mic workshop. They place speakers. They also personally EQ the system. In some instances they are the A1. This is mainly do to the fact that you can not really draft exact mic placement. You can not communicate how a room should sound. 

Keep in mind this all is in a regional theatre setting. In the music world, the LD is running the console and sometimes humping cable. The sound designer is running FOH and usually helping with the in/out as well.


----------



## mstaylor (Mar 22, 2010)

My first thought was it depends. An analogy would be a square is a rectangle but a rectangle isn't always a square. In many cases the designer is a technician but not always.


----------



## ajb (Mar 22, 2010)

I spent a couple summers working at an opera company that had an LD (who'd been there for _years_) who spent the rest of his year doing large regional opera in IA houses. so when he came to this company in the summer, it was his chance to play electrician and get his hands dirty. He started in the biz as an IA hand (I think he helped wrangle the live woolly mammoths for the operas of the day, but I digress), so it was a welcome change of pace for him. It was also, as I understand, necessary for things to get done right in years past, so when he finally got a competent crew (me and a few colleagues), he continued to treat us with as much confidence as you'd give an untrained monkey when it came to hang and circuit his plot. 

The first hang, he chalked out every unit on the battens, and watched us like a hawk to make sure we could, you know. . . .read, and actually matched unit and barrel to what he'd written on the pipe. Then it was time to circuit, and he insisted on circuiting all of the hard 2fers himself. The house had some odd circuit doubling (old Kliegl house with original dimmers and patch bay), but nothing we hadn't dealt with before. We rolled our eyes, and stood and watched him work. The 2fers done, I asked him if we could circuit the rest of the pipe now. "No, I still need to check a few things." We then followed him down the pipe, the ME/ALD with a clipboard recording circuit numbers, and me with a roll of gaff taping connections, as he circuited the remaining units simple 1-to-1. I seethed a bit. 

Anyway, by the time the second show rolled around, he'd figured out that we actually kinda knew what we were doing, and shockingly enough, let the ME/ALD run the hang and circuit, with only a few minor interjections. When it came to focus, though, you could tell he was itching to get his hands dirty again. When we came to a tricky spot, he'd jump at the chance. We'd tell him,. "it's okay, we'll make it work, you can stay on the deck", but he'd insist on going up in the bucket to do it himself--because he _wanted_ to.

So the moral of the story is that MPowers is right: some designers are technicians at heart, in spite of what the organizational chart says.


----------



## mstaylor (Mar 22, 2010)

In his defense, I hire hands all the time and am told I have X experience. Sometimes it's true, other times not. As an old dog sometimes he just doesn't trust what his is told about competence, other times he may just like to do himself just because he wants to. Don't judge him harsely until he gets condesending. Some guys don't remember how their learning process happened.


----------



## zmb (Mar 22, 2010)

It depends on what the show is and how complex it is. I have done a show where I've designed the lighting, focused most of it, and ran the board while sometimes I have just been running a board and focussing stuff with a designer.


----------



## museav (Mar 28, 2010)

zmb said:


> It depends on what the show is and how complex it is. I have done a show where I've designed the lighting, focused most of it, and ran the board while sometimes I have just been running a board and focussing stuff with a designer.


I agree. A large show could have an audio system designer who designs the physical system and a sound designer who puts together the 'soundscape', creates new music, etc. and an operator who handles the actual setup and operation for a show. Three different roles with varying levels of tech. And that is not even getting into the House Engineer, the techs who put together the system, etc. On the other hand, a smaller show or venue may have one person handling all these roles.


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 30, 2010)

This question points out the MASSIVE variety in job titles and what those people actually do. High school students often think that the way their high school operates is how the rest of the theater world works too. That is usually not the case. Start with the high school version of a T.D. This usually means someone who is the lead technician in a school. They know all the systems, and teach other students how to run the equipment. This has NOTHING to do with what a technical director does on Broadway. In that world the T.D. designs nothing, and never touches any equipment. The T.D. is mostly a budgeting person. On the in between levels of pro, community, and college theater, the T.D. does a wide variety of jobs. Usually the budgeting and probably some designing, then maybe carpentry, costuming, sound and/or light work too. All depends on the budget and how big the theater operation is. 

Furthermore, it's hard to find two professional theaters which operate in exactly the same way. In the high rent equity theater world the designer might not even step in the building. A recent show here in Seattle had scenic design by a famous East coast designer. He sent one of his assistants to Seattle once, other than that it was all done via phone, e-mail, and fax. On the other end of the spectrum you have low budget community theaters where one person might design and build the entire set, lights, and sound. 

There just is no such thing as a universal job description or theater operational structure.


----------

