# what is a barrel in a rigging context?



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 6, 2012)

I was posed a question in my rigging class for which I have yet to find an answer to. 
What is the *difference between a pipe, batten and a barrel. * I know the first two, but the barrel has me stumped.
The only thing I have found would be a barrel hook (not a barrel snap!); however, I don't think that is the correct item. I have checked Backstage Handbook and Glerum and google, but they have all failed me so far.


----------



## MPowers (Mar 6, 2012)

Wow! I know I don't know everything about rigging ( nobody knows "Everything", Unka Bill comes close) but I do know one or two things. Never heard the term used in re: rigging. I've worked from New Orleans to Northern Maine and coast to coast over the years, so it doesn't seem to be a regional thing unless it is north of the border. 

I'm interested in what the answer is????


----------



## avkid (Mar 6, 2012)

I know we sometimes use water barrels to secure guy lines.
Other than that I have nothing.


----------



## avkid (Mar 6, 2012)

Barrel, like a drum?
Maybe someone calls a drum winch a barrel winch.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2012)

blackisthenewblack said:


> ...I know the first two, but the barrel has me stumped.


See the wiki: barrel, definition #5 (just added). More at Theatrecrafts - Entertainment Technology Resources - Glossary of Technical Theatre Terms - Results . As far as I know, the term is only used by the Brits, in the TV/film studios, not so much for live entertainment.

Most UK-based stage lighting books (Pilbrow, Francis Reid, etc.) have a small section on TV/film that has pictures.


----------



## avkid (Mar 7, 2012)

So it's a trick question.


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 7, 2012)

Wow that's really obscure and if that's the definition it doesn't really fit the question. The difference between a pipe and a batten is a logical question to ask... but adding in what is apparently the UK term for a portable boom, doesn't really make sense. 

What came to mind when I read the OP is the round "hoops" on a batten used to maintain spacing between battens. I don't know what those things are called but I could certainly see someone calling it a "barrel" and it makes more sense as part of the question. Anyone know what those spacer rings are called? 

I think you should say 

> Barrel:
> 1) A wooden container used for ageing whiskey.
> 2) A device used to ride down Niagara Falls once the contained whiskey has been consumed.



Hijack
My mother in law tells this great story about the time she was a teenager and this southern revival preacher came to town. She went and listened to him preach for an hour about "The Barrel of Christ". There's glory in the "Barrel of Christ". We are forgiven by the "Barrel of Christ"! We owe everything to the "Barrel of Christ"! Over and over, his key message was the importance to all Christians of the "Barrel of Christ". She was completely confused because the entire sermon made no sense at all. Finally the event ended and the local pastor got up to thank everyone for coming and to thank the traveling preacher for his powerful message on the importance of the Burial of Christ. Southern accents are funny.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> ...What came to mind when I read the OP is the round "hoops" on a batten used to maintain spacing between battens. I don't know what those things are called but I could certainly see someone calling it a "barrel" and it makes more sense as part of the question. Anyone know what those spacer rings are called?


You mean scenery bumper - ControlBooth ?



-----

gafftaper said:


> ...but adding in what is apparently the UK term for a portable boom, doesn't really make sense.


Not a portable boom, more like a short motorized electric. Unlike the full stage width electrics found on a proscenium stage, British TV studios have a bunch of short electrics (barrels) over the studio. In contrast, American studios tend to use a fixed height pipe grip, and suspend tail down lighting fixtures with a pantograph or stirrup hanger. 

I remember an article about one of the theatres at London's National Theatre, not sure if it was the Lyttelton, Cottesloe, or Olivier, was built rigged with barrels rather than standard battens in an effort to be more flexible. I believe this is what eventually led to the RSC LightLock, as a moving-head luminaire on a short light-weight batten is obviously problematic.


----------



## venuetech (Mar 7, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> I remember an article about one of the theatres at London's National Theatre, not sure if it was the Lyttelton, Cottesloe, or Olivier, was built rigged with barrels rather than standard battens in an effort to be more flexible. I believe this is what eventually led to the RSC LightLock, as a moving-head luminaire on a short light-weight batten is obviously problematic.


The inventors story

a interesting video about the product development


----------



## cmckeeman (Mar 7, 2012)

what is the difference between a pipe and a baton?


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2012)

cmckeeman said:


> what is the difference between a pipe and a baton?


A pipe is what Popeye smokes; a baton is an orchestra conductor's waving stick. 
-----

venuetech said:


> ...a interesting video about the product development


In the video, what they call "lighting clusters," British TV people would refer to as "lighting barrels."


----------



## Chris15 (Mar 7, 2012)

Our TV studios tend to use what we call self climbing hoists, which I believe are the same thing as what's being discussed.
In the TV world they make sense, especially for news type shows, you aren't likely to use a mover and generally your focus is pretty wide so to point it in the right direction on the ground and then send it up is fine and reduces the need for aerial work platforms in all their forms.

Whether they make so much sense for theatre applications is a different story...


----------



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 7, 2012)

So, answer as per my teacher's definition

Pipe - pipe used to hang things
Batten - wooden clamps used to pinch fabric or soft flats which is then attached to lift lines
Barrel - a British term for pipe


----------



## avkid (Mar 7, 2012)

blackisthenewblack said:


> So, answer as per my teacher's definition
> Batten - wooden clamps used to pinch fabric or soft flats which is then attached to lift lines


Excuse me???


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2012)

avkid said:


> Excuse me???


See wiki: batten, definition #2. See also batten clamp, def. #2.


blackisthenewblack said:


> So, answer as per my teacher's definition
> 
> Pipe - pipe used to hang things
> Batten - wooden clamps used to pinch fabric or soft flats which is then attached to lift lines
> Barrel - a British term for pipe


blackisthenewblack, it sounds like your instructor maybe needs to broaden his/her definitions somewhat. Perhaps invite him/her to look at our wiki? Other terms that seemingly fit into the same lesson: line, lineset, truss batten, electric, bar.



Agree to disagree. That’s what I love about science, there’s no one right answer.
--Penny's dumb boyfriend Zack on _The Big Bang Theory_


chausman said:


> So apparently our wiki is wrong...


Our wiki is *NEVER* wrong, just incomplete; or in need of further collaborative efforts!
!Please Help the Glossary!


----------



## cmckeeman (Mar 7, 2012)

what is the technical difference between them becasue the only difference i know of is that a batten is used in a fly system but i don't know any other criteria for calling something a batten or a pipe


----------



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 7, 2012)

He is saying that back in the good old days of fabric drops and the like, a Batten would be two lengths of 1xstock pinched around the top of the drop. This Batten which runs the full length of the drop is then suspended from the flying system.

So the quick definition is...
Pipe = metal
Batten= 2 lengths of wood
Barrel = British term for Pipe


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 7, 2012)

blackisthenewblack said:


> He is saying that back in the good old days ...


I didn't realize we were discussing only the historical usage of terms. Usually archaic meanings are ignored unless specifically stated. If he says, "Go get me a sheet of gel," does he expect you to return with gelatin, or a polyester color filter?

By modern definitions, a batten is a schedule 40 or 80 1.5" I.D. steel pipe which is connected to a counterweight fly systems lift line s, at least according to JR Clancy, Sapsis, Tiffin, and all other theatrical rigging companies.


blackisthenewblack said:


> So the quick definition is...
> Pipe = metal
> Batten= 2 lengths of wood


And he is in error. Go backstage at any road house in the country and you'll hear flypersons saying 
"Bring in pipe number seventeen" and "Bring in batten number seventeen" and "Bring in lineset number seventeen" interchangeably.

Get your instructor on here so we can school him!


----------



## chausman (Mar 7, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> By modern definitions, a batten is a schedule 40 or 80 1.5" I.D. steel pipe which is connected to a counterweight fly systems lift line s, at least according to JR Clancy, Sapsis, Tiffin, and all other theatrical rigging companies.



Huh...

> Battens may be part of a fly system and able to be raised or lowered, or they *may be "dead hung"* in one place.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 7, 2012)

blackisthenewblack said:


> So, answer as per my teacher's definition
> Pipe - pipe used to hang things
> Batten - wooden clamps used to pinch fabric or soft flats which is then attached to lift lines
> Barrel - a British term for pipe



Wow that's pretty shocking! Is this possibly some sort of regional Canadian use of these terms? Nobody down here in the States uses that definition of Batten and the only definition we found for Barrel was wrong too.


----------



## mstaylor (Mar 7, 2012)

As often happens, the instructor is trying to show his knowledge of theatre and uses a poorly worded question to play "gotcha" with the students. 
My answer would be, in modern theatre, none between A and B, C has no common usage in North America.


----------



## blackisthenewblack (Mar 8, 2012)

These are not Canadian regional terms. Until today, I thought what everyone else on here thought. But when he isn't here, we use them all interchangeably (well except for barrel, sorry Brits).


----------



## tprewitt (Mar 8, 2012)

I first ran into the term "barrel" awhile back in some Hall stage lit. They called hardware, "fixings" and pipes/battens "barrels". Since then, I've heard it used several more times. Seems to be completely interchangeable with pipe or batten. I'd say the difference between a pipe, a batten, and a barrel is...zip, nadda. 

Download some curtain track cut sheets from thernstage.com. You can see the term "barrel" in action. 

I have heard the term barrel or barrel stop used for a NiCopress stop sleeve too, but only as a layman's term, not by a manufacturer.


----------



## RickBoychuk (Dec 23, 2014)

tprewitt said:


> I first ran into the term "barrel" awhile back in some Hall stage lit. They called hardware, "fixings" and pipes/battens "barrels". Since then, I've heard it used several more times. Seems to be completely interchangeable with pipe or batten. I'd say the difference between a pipe, a batten, and a barrel is...zip, nadda.
> 
> Download some curtain track cut sheets from thernstage.com. You can see the term "barrel" in action.
> 
> I have heard the term barrel or barrel stop used for a NiCopress stop sleeve too, but only as a layman's term, not by a manufacturer.


Agree with Mr. Prewitt. Terminology evolves. It changes with time and place. In the days of wooden machinery all were 'battens'. Then came iron 'pipes', which the Brits called 'barrels', as in gun barrels. Nothing to get one's knickers in a knot about.


----------

