# "Ballet Hung"?



## spiwak2005 (May 6, 2010)

And I am referring to legs before anyone makes any smart jokes...

Had a rider recently state that "the legs must be ballet hung". I assumed this meant a hard edge on stage (as opposed to folded back) and never did get to ask them if it was correct. Is this what they meant? Is this a potential glossary term or is it not really a standard term.


----------



## derekleffew (May 6, 2010)

spiwak2005 said:


> ... Is this what they meant? Is this a potential glossary term or is it not really a standard term.


I've heard the term a couple of times, but think it's rather silly and unduly vague.

Refers to having every leg hung the same distance from centerline, as opposed to each opening getting progressively narrower moving upstage.


----------



## MNBallet (May 6, 2010)

spiwak2005 said:


> And I am referring to legs before anyone makes any smart jokes...
> 
> Had a rider recently state that "the legs must be ballet hung". I assumed this meant a hard edge on stage (as opposed to folded back) and never did get to ask them if it was correct. Is this what they meant? Is this a potential glossary term or is it not really a standard term.



hmmmmm...I'm stumpped. Never heard of the term.

I do know many directors that like the hard edge look of a curtain and borders. 
But in a corps de ballet production, like Swan Lake or Giselle it is very common to have a line of girls going upstage. Having the legs opening getting wider as they get downstage screws up this choreography and screws up the girls "feeling" of the stage. So that use of the term at least makes sence to me.

Ken Pogin
Production / Tour Manager
Minnesota Ballet


----------



## Van (May 7, 2010)

I'm thinking somebody should put this term in the Wikki ! 
I've heard the term "Opera Hung" to describe the practice of actually pulling the jute to the 'Top' of a pipe, so that it is not visible.


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2010)

Van said:


> I'm thinking somebody should put this term in the Wikki ! ...


Okay, see ballet-hung. But I still don't think it's a term that should be perpetuated.


Van said:


> ... I've heard the term "Opera Hung" to describe the practice of actually pulling the jute to the 'Top' of a pipe, so that it is not visible.


In order to be "Opera Hung", must one use opera knots?


----------



## MPowers (May 7, 2010)

Having started out in the entertainment industry as a dancer, circa 1958, I have heard the term many times. It refers to even spacing and hung parallel to the plaster line, not angled or "L" shaped. The even spacing allows dancers to "mark" exits, lines of chorus to enter and exit smoothly, choreographers to plan spacing etc. The parallel orientation allows dancers to enter and exit at full speed without having to negotiate a sudden turn. It also affects lighting as dance relys heavily on side lighting. Shrinking openings and slanted legs put a real damper on lighting.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa, 50313, Central Lighting & Equipment


----------



## spiwak2005 (May 7, 2010)

Thanks everyone for the clarification. Since the rider already listed the same sized openings on the lineset schedule, also stating "ballet-hung" was redundant.


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2010)

So spiwak2005, you were already "ballet hung-compliant" without knowing it!

Thank you, MPowers, for reminding me about the "no swivel legs" and especially the "even spacing" part. On a stage with performance area of 30' depth, this would require four 7.5' openings. I read recently where Tom Skelton said the ideal spacing was openings of (DS to US) 6',7',8',9'. I can see benefits of each, so dance designers, what do you prefer? I suppose it may be an academic question, as each venue has enough peculiarities that the ideal rarely occurs. That and 30' depth from plaster line to scrim is impossible on most stages.http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/spiwak2005.html


----------



## MPowers (May 7, 2010)

IMHO I would disagree that the term is redundant. It is descriptive of a STYLE of hanging. Distance from CL and lineset spacing still leaves orientation or shaping undefined. Combine the two and you have a concrete set of information. See my post re: angled or "L" shaped legs. 

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa, 50313, Central Lighting & Equipment


----------



## Grog12 (May 7, 2010)

Can't say I've heard this term before....interesting though.


----------



## derekleffew (May 7, 2010)

Okay then. Our two working dance professionals have never heard the term. So I renew my objection and question its validity on a rider sent out to venue techs of widely varying skill levels.


----------



## MPowers (May 7, 2010)

As I mentioned, my professional dance career, NYC and east coast, was in the '50's and early 60's. The term was common then, I wonder if it has fallen out of standard usage? How old are your dance pro's and are they dancers or tech? 

Michael Powers
Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.


----------



## Footer (May 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> I read recently where Tom Skelton said the ideal spacing was openings of (DS to US) 6',7',8',9'. I can see benefits of each, so dance designers, what do you prefer? I suppose it may be an academic question, as each venue has enough peculiarities that the ideal rarely occurs. That and 30' depth from plaster line to scrim is impossible on most stages.http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/spiwak2005.html



Forced prospective soft goods for dance really drives me up the wall. It makes you have to cheat each boom onstage as you go upstage because it kills your DS/US shot. For straight theatre, legs are placed where they need to be to provide adequate masking so its a moot point there. 

I have never heard this term before as well. Most venues I have been in have their house soft goods hung at equal distances anyway. I think that is one reason it has fallen out of use. The other is that... how hard is it to put in the rider "All soft goods should be hung an equal distance off center to allow for adequate masking and should be hung parallel to the plaster line". 

Ballet hung makes me think they all soft goods should all be pepto bismol pink and have ribbon ties.


----------



## SteveB (May 8, 2010)

MPowers said:


> As I mentioned, my professional dance career, NYC and east coast, was in the '50's and early 60's. The term was common then, I wonder if it has fallen out of standard usage? How old are your dance pro's and are they dancers or tech?
> 
> Michael Powers
> Project Manager
> ...



As Derek reminded me, I've done a few dance events over the 35 years, but have never heard the term. We do see the typical request to have all legs same opening from C/L and it's usually the Proc opening, which is how we keep our legs anyway. As to even spacing US/DS, I don't think ours is exact, as it's a rep rig and dependent in any case on all the other "rep" gear in the air, I.E. electrics, borders, travellers, acoustic ceiling pieces, etc... but no dance company has commented or had us move, unless we had to, to accommodate scenic elements.

Note however that I merely do lighting and sometime my PM forgets to let me view the entire rider, so I'll ask him on Tuesday.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> Okay then. Our two working dance professionals have never heard the term. So I renew my objection and question its validity on a rider sent out to venue techs of widely varying skill levels.



I agree.

I worked for the Dance Theatre of Harlem from 1971-1976. I have never heard that term.

Maybe it came from the same person that coined "radial ERS". 

ST


----------



## derekleffew (May 8, 2010)

MPowers said:


> ... How old are your dance pro's and are they dancers or tech? ...


~30 & 36; TD/Designer & Production Manager; both of touring ballet companies. MPowers, I think you're correct that the term has fallen out of usage, much like swivel legs (thank goodness!).

New, semi-related topic:
What's it called when one twists the bottom of a leg and then takes the bottom and stuffs it into the pocket created (in order to get it off the floor and out of the way when it wont fly out)? Is there a term for this? Does everyone know this trick?

Another topic:
I see from perusing current riders on the Internet most companies request/demand that all goods be flat, without pleats. While I understand and agree, I wonder how much of a fuss they make when the majority of masking, especially in receiving houses, has at least 50% fullness?


----------



## kiwitechgirl (May 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> New, semi-related topic:
> What's it called when one twists the bottom of a leg and then takes the bottom and stuffs it into the pocket created (in order to get it off the floor and out of the way when it wont fly out)? Is there a term for this?  Does everyone know this trick?



Know the trick, have no idea of its proper name (or if it even has one) - we usually say "can you bundle those legs up" or even "can you tie those legs up" - although you have to be careful who you say that to, funny though it is to watch newbies struggle to tie them in a half-hitch!


----------



## MarshallPope (May 8, 2010)

About the legs - we call them sacs. I have no idea if that term is unique to our theatre or not. Our legs usually fly out, but ocassionally we have to transfer them to dead-hung battens when we run out of linesets for items that need to fly.


----------



## erosing (May 8, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> New, semi-related topic:
> What's it called when one twists the bottom of a leg and then takes the bottom and stuffs it into the pocket created (in order to get it off the floor and out of the way when it wont fly out)? Is there a term for this? Does everyone know this trick?



I've heard it called basketing, weaving, and turning, all at different places of course.


----------

