# Gel Sheet Sizing



## MNicolai (Dec 23, 2008)

Why are gel sheets 20x24? Is there no other way to market them so that there isn't wasted gel?


It seems like no matter how I make full cuts, and piece together one or two extras out of scotch tape, there are always scraps left over. I understand with all of the different frame sizes and applications it can be hard to come to a standard, but we're definitely entering the age of waste reduction. Even if it's not possible to reach a standard, why 20x24?


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## derekleffew (Dec 23, 2008)

Furthermore, why are Lee Filters "Half Sheets" (in North America) 21"x24"? And why is Apollo the only manufacturer to offer sheets in two sizes (20"x24" and 24"x24")?


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 23, 2008)

Well, best reason I have heard is that back in tha day, when real gelatine was used to make real gels, instead of plastic color media, the metal bakers sheets that were used to make the sheets of gel were 20 x 24.


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## SteveB (Dec 23, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Furthermore, why are Lee Filters "Half Sheets" (in North America) 21"x24"? And why is Apollo the only manufacturer to offer sheets in two sizes (20"x24" and 24"x24")?



Habit and no real logic, especially as frames sizes have shrunk with the 6.25" sizes. 

Can't think of any reason to change it, as you still end up with 6.25", 7.5", 10", plus a ton of cyc light sizes. Thus there will probably always be wastage.

SB


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## MNicolai (Dec 24, 2008)

Why not continue to offer the sheets for larger cuts, but also offer sheets (and/or rolls) that are 6.25" wide, 7.5" wide, or a combination, and are a product of those numbers long? When I order gels, I have a pretty good idea how they're going to be used, and for those less certain(or more certain, depending on the case), they could order 13.75" wide gel that allow for both 7.5" and 6.25" cuts.

Sure there will still be scoops and cyc lights and border lights that may have completely different sizes, but realistically, most gels are destined for 6.25" and 7.5" cuts.

The only exchange I see(aside from changing the factory processes) for getting the material saved is a more complicated process of ordering when specifying which gels to buy.

How much money do you think goes down the drain each year if you took the total square footage of scrap gel material and put a price tag on it?


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## gafftaper (Dec 24, 2008)

That's a great question for our buddy from Apollo Kelite. Unfortunately for us (fortunately for him) he's probably currently out in the woods with no internet access enjoying Christmas with his family. Look for an answer from him in a few days.


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## Kelite (Dec 29, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> That's a great question for our buddy from Apollo Kelite. Unfortunately for us (fortunately for him) he's probably currently out in the woods with no internet access enjoying Christmas with his family. Look for an answer from him in a few days.





You've learned to read me like a book, Gafftaper!

For those of you that may not have seen the educational 'How it's Made' video regarding gel filters, it's five minutes well spent.
The jumbo roll width is 48 inches, which allows the manufacturer to cut sheets into whatever they deem wise. We've seen 20 x 24 inch, 21 x 24 inch, and yes, Apollo also offers 24 x 24 inch sheet sizes to maximize yield (depending upon the frame size required).

This chart allows the user to compare conventional 20 x 24 inch sheet yield vs 24 x 24 inch sheets. 

http://downloads.goapollo.com/PerfGel Sheet Cost Yield Comparison.pdf


Glad to be back! Please let me know if I may offer any tips or hints!


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## MNicolai (Dec 29, 2008)

The 24x24 sheets look like the best solution for 6.25" and 7.5" frames, so long as someone is not expecting to get cuts of both sizes out of the same sheet. I'll have to keep that in mind the next time I go gel shopping.


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## rochem (Dec 29, 2008)

Kelite said:


> For those of you that may not have seen the educational 'How it's Made' video regarding gel filters, it's five minutes well spent.





"Gels and filters can turn a bad scene into a good one."

Oh, wouldn't that be nice if it were true .


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## 1kfresnel (Dec 29, 2008)

rochem said:


> "Gels and filters can turn a bad scene into a good one."
> 
> Oh, wouldn't that be nice if it were true .



Haha, quite. I also never heard that narrator before.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Lee is one of the companies that doesn't "seal in" the color layer, right? I know the conditions surrounding gel life, gel replacement, etc are all debatable and each LD has their preferences. I'm just referring to the physical construction of the medium.


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## derekleffew (Dec 29, 2008)

1kfresnel said:


> ...Correct me if I'm wrong but Lee is one of the companies that doesn't "seal in" the color layer, right? I know the conditions surrounding gel life, gel replacement, etc are all debatable and each LD has their preferences. I'm just referring to the physical construction of the medium.


Amaze your teachers, amuse your friends! Try this: Take a piece of Lee Filters, any color but preferably a dark one. Dampen a piece of white cloth and rub the filter. Watch what happens!


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## Kelite (Dec 29, 2008)

Both Apollo and Lee Filters produce gel filters that are double-coated for color consistency. These products are not multi-layered or co-extruded, but rather from a single substrate of polyester.


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## 1kfresnel (Dec 29, 2008)

Thanks Keltie. I assume it's mostly marketing otherwise...

My observations from the video is that it bonded / was colorfast almost instantly. A physical means it not always greater than a chemical means 

derek -- sounds like an experiment for the kiddos!


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## Kelite (Dec 29, 2008)

Kelite said:


> 1kfresnel said:
> 
> 
> > I assume it's mostly marketing otherwise...
> ...


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