# ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element



## taylors (Jul 30, 2012)

I am a high school student and my school recently built a new performing arts center. All furbished with ETC products. No one has been properly trained and the first musical is coming up and I am the lighting desiginer. I learn everything on my own on the internet. I need help with ETC Selador Lustr Series & Vivid R series. I do understand that some of them are daisy chained and I understand that part. I am looking to create a new show and start from scratch. I understand that each led fixture has 8 channel componets. How do I patch these and do I have to patch each of the 8 channels separatly? I have no concept of the LED lights, the address, fixture addreess, and then patching these address and finally being able to contol them. Could some one please explain in beginners language of what this is and how to do this? Thanks.:neutral:

On a side not, I just found out we have 4 Ocean Optics SeaChangers (4channel). And I understand that these have mutipule address also. How do I patch those and controll those properally? Beginners language is great and any help is greatly appreciated! Thanks!


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## MNicolai (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Which lighting console are you working on?


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## derekleffew (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Watch this video ETC Element Training - Part 4b (Patching Moving Devices) , and substitute SeaChanger for scroller.

DMX addresses can be any number 1-505. (In this case, you can't use a number higher than 505 because you'd exceed 512 when patching an 8ch device). Usually, you'd address the first Selador to 001, the second 009, third 017, and so on; then patch those device addresses 2/1, 2/9, 2/17, etc. into whatever control channels you want.


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## taylors (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Etc Element


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## taylors (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

DEREK! I understand it all now! YOU ARE AMAZIIINNNGGGG! Thanks so much!


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## taylors (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Oh one more question, when you patch them why is it 2/1, 2/9, 2/17. I understand the 1, 9, 17 part, but where does the two come from? Thanks so so so sos sos soooo [email protected]


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## derekleffew (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

On the back of the Element are two female 5pin XLR DMX512 outputs, probably labeled DMX1 and DMX2. Usually, DMX1 (Universe 1) controls dimmers, and DMX2 (Universe 2) controls other devices. (It doesn't have to be that way, and in fact both ports can be set up to both output the same.) Now the DMX dimmers and devices don't know and don't care what universe they're on, but obviously the console does. Thus you can have a dimmer addressed as 001 (to the console 1/1), and an LED as 001 (2/1), but they are on different universes.


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## taylors (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Makes so much more sence and now I remember reading about universes. I think that all of the LED fixtures are daisy chained by rows. But not 100% sure. If i addressed all the LED fixtures 1, 9, 17 so on and so on will I be able to controll them one by one or will one effect all because of the daisy chain?


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## essentials (Jul 30, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Exact process of patching your equipment depends on the light board you have and should be covered in its manual well enough. You say all in your venue is from ETC so I assume your control desk is either from Eos or Congo family, both are quite easy to patch and do have fixture personalities of lates (well, all) ETC products (at least with the latest software version you can easily download from the company´s site).

You say you understand what daisy-chaining means so I asume you understand the basics of DMX control, DMX universes, maximum of 512 control channels per universe etc.

Basically, what you need to know when working with any multi-channel devices is that with modern consoles the term "channel" has two different meanings - first being actual DMX channels used to comunicate between the console and a fixture, second being dedicated channel number by which the console recognizes your input and translates it further.

So, when you patch, say a Lustr, you have to set its starting address (number of the first of 8 DMX channels it uses). That will become the fixture address, though it actually uses more addresses (consecutively). In the concole´s patch you enter the "console channel" (number you want that single Lustr being referred to when programming your cues) and patch the address of the fixture (as you have set it). Both Eos and Congo family consoles´ patch asks you whether the patched channel is a dimmer or anything else. That´s when the fixture libraries comes in. You simply tell your console what is on that address you are patching and it will automatically set the corresponding number of DMX channels (addresses) to parameter controls.

That way, when programming, you only need to enter the "console channel" number to control ALL the fixture´s parameters (that are in fact controled by all those DMX channels you set in the patch) via encoders or GUI (e.g. color picker).

So, no, you only patch the starting address of whatever you are patching. Console takes care of the rest (of course if you do not have an aged Express in a newly furbished art centre for whatever reason).

That would be the very basic (and a little over-simplified) concept of multi-channeled fixture control. Details depend on what you actually have.


taylors said:


> If i addressed all the LED fixtures 1, 9, 17 so on and so on will I be able to controll them one by one or will one effect all because of the daisy chain?



If you patch them as separate channels, you are able to control them separately.


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## taylors (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

I am working with the ETC Eos Family - Element.

So each Lustar do I have to add eight to the address i assign? Like 1, 9, 17. Then I just patch address 9 @ whatever channel, select the product and it will do the rest? Or do I have to patch 2/1, 2/9. 2/17 or is that just uneeded work because the element can do it by its self? Thanks very much.


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## essentials (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*


taylors said:


> do I have to add eight to the address i assign? Like 1, 9, 17. Then I just patch address 9 @ whatever channel, select the product and it will do the rest? Or do I have to patch 2/1, 2/9. 2/17 or is that just uneeded work because the element can do it by its self? Thanks very much.



Yes, you have to leave out as many addresses as number of control channels the fixture takes. So yes, on the first universe it would be something like 1, 9, 17 etc. if you start from one and the address range you chose is empty (nothing else is patched there).

I am not familiar with software differences between Element and the rest of the Eos family, but I see no reason why should this be different - on Eos family consoles you do not enter DMX universe number, you add 512 to the address set on fixture for every universe it is linked to above one.

So, if you set addresses to 1, 9 and 17, you patch them as such if they are on the first universe, 513, 521 and 529 on universe 2, 1025, 1033 and 1041 on universe 3 and so on (though I am pretty sure Element has no more than two DMX universes).

EDIT: Checked on Element offline (1.9.11) - I was right, you set the correct universe by adding 512.


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## taylors (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

So I would set all my fixtures 1, 9, 17 etc. the then go to the patch page on the console and say address 513 @ channel 1 and select the type? Then address 521 @ channel 2 and select the type?


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## essentials (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

That would be correct if they are connected to DMX universe 2.


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## sk8rsdad (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*


taylors said:


> I am working with the ETC Eos Family - Element.
> 
> So each Lustar do I have to add eight to the address i assign? Like 1, 9, 17. Then I just patch address 9 @ whatever channel, select the product and it will do the rest? Or do I have to patch 2/1, 2/9. 2/17 or is that just uneeded work because the element can do it by its self? Thanks very much.



Element's fixture library includes a number of entries for the Desire line. Find the one that matches the way the fixtures have been configured and use it. The console knows how many DMX addresses to allocate to each fixture and will take care of the offset for you. To simplify your life, use one of the HSI personalities.

To patch a range of fixtures to universe 2 starting at 1, the syntax would be:

1 [Thru] x {Type}{D40 Lustr+ HSIC Str} [Address] 2/1 [Enter]

On a side note, I'm finding it a little unusual that the lights would be hanging, and cabled, possibly focused, but not patched in a school installation. Are you sure there isn't a show file on the system already that has things patched?


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## Tex (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

IMO, the universe/address format is the easiest way to patch to a universe other than 1. If my fixture is on universe 3 and addressed at 25, it's much easier for me to remember 3/25 than 537.
OP: Check with your teacher. At my new venue, the installers gave me a "ticket" to use to schedule training. I get two days of Eos training and one day for the Ion (seems a bit much to be honest). I would think that your install came with some amount of training from ETC.


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## essentials (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*

Indeed. Thank you guys for reminding me the syntax. It´s been a while since I was patching anything.

For Taylors: Both ways work.


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## derekleffew (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*


Tex said:


> ... If my fixture is on universe 3 and addressed at 25, it's much easier for me to remember 3/25 than *537*. ...


Err, universe address 3/25 would be absolute address *1049*, [512+512+25].


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## Tex (Jul 31, 2012)

*re: ETC LED Fixtures & SeaChanger on Element*


derekleffew said:


> Err, universe address 3/25 would be absolute address *1049*, [512+512+25].


I think this whole embarrassing episode illustrates my point beautifully.


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## taylors (Aug 1, 2012)

The company that installed the unit patched it their way and we only had a 2 hour traning, which didnt really get us any where. So I decided to start from scratch and do it the way I wanted it and make it comfortable. So thanks for all of the help!


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## essentials (Aug 1, 2012)

If you have not done that already I would highly recommend downloading the off-line editor (it´s free) and fiddle with it as much as you can. Read the manual and try every single function until you feel familiar with them and then repeat. And repeat. And... yes, repeat. Try to imagine situations when different functions would be handy. Excessive self-education is IMHO better than any training.

Good luck!


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## taylors (Aug 1, 2012)

I did download the off line software and tried to get familiar. When I first tried to do it, I thought it would be so simple. Not really as simple as a I thought it would be. Thanks for everything though. Any advice on the Seachanger 4 channel?


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## sk8rsdad (Aug 1, 2012)

taylors said:


> Any advice on the Seachanger 4 channel?



Look at the show file the installers created and _borrow_ from it. The usual practice is to create a multipart fixture with one part as the Ocean Optics SeaChanger (ought to be in the fixture library) and the other part as the dimmer.


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## JChenault (Aug 1, 2012)

Tex said:


> IMO, the universe/address format is the easiest way to patch to a universe other than 1. If my fixture is on universe 3 and addressed at 25, it's much easier for me to remember 3/25 than 537.



Doesn't this really depend on the console. If the console supports a two part naming of the DMX channel ( Universe/offet IE 3/25) that that will be the easiest. If it only supports a continuous block of DMX addresses and wants you to divide by 512 in your head - that is what you have to do.


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## derekleffew (Aug 1, 2012)

JChenault said:


> Doesn't this really depend on the console. If the console supports a two part naming of the DMX channel (Universe/offset IE 3/25) that that will be the easiest. If it only supports a continuous block of DMX addresses and wants you to divide by 512 in your head - that is what you have to do.


Yes it does depend on the console. However, if it won't allow universe addressing, it's also not "moving light aware." Even the 1995 Express allowed this. (I could be mistaken. That feature might not have come until 1998 on Expression3 and the move from V2.1 to V3.0 software.) Absolute addressing went out of fashion shortly after consoles began allowing more than 512 dimmers, and controlling devices other than dimmer racks.


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## sk8rsdad (Aug 1, 2012)

JChenault said:


> divide by 512 in your head - that is what you have to do.



I think you mean subtract 512, or some multiple of 512. That is:

relative address = absolute address - ((universe - 1) x 512)


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## JChenault (Aug 1, 2012)

sk8rsdad said:


> I think you mean subtract 512, or some multiple of 512. That is:
> 
> relative address = absolute address - ((universe - 1) x 512)



Assuming we start our first universe at '1' instead of '0', and that by relative address we mean a number that goes from 1 to 512 - and by absolute address we mean a number that goes from 1 to some big number evenly divisible by 512

What I really meant was:
Universe = ( int (absoluteAddress/512)) +1 ;
DMX part = absoluteAddress % 512 ( where '%' is the symbol for mod - IE the remainder after division )
AND
absoluteAddress = relativeAddress + ( (universe -1) * 512); 

( channeling my inner computer science geek )


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## tdrga (Aug 1, 2012)

taylors said:


> Any advice on the Seachanger 4 channel?



To follow up on sk8rsdad- here's a quick step-by-step for patching Seachangers-

The Seachangers have 3 things you need to worry about:

Power for the color changer
Power for the lamp
Control of the color changer (via DMX)

I will usually plug the color changer power (the power cord from the "hump" on the fixture) into a non-dim and patch that into a "power" channel that stays parked on. Make sure that the cord doesn't lay across or touch the back of the instrument- it will melt.

Take the lamp pigtail (from the lamp cap) and plug it into a regular dimmer circuit and patch this into your control channel.
Make sure you are in Patch Channel mode- if the command line says Patch Address, then press the [Format] key.
To patch dimmer 10 into channel 1, for example : *1 [@] 10 [enter]*

While you are still in the patch screen, make the second part of channel 1 your color control part:
*1 [part] 2 *, click on {type}, click on {Manfctr} and use the arrows under the left hand columns to find and click on {Ocean Optics}, then find and click on {Seachanger XG 4chan} *[enter]* - the {} items are tiles on the screen.

If you know the DMX address for the Seachanger, then patch that address (ex.: universe 2, address 40) to part 2: *1 [part] 2 [@] 2/40 [enter]*.

If some of this doesn't make sense or you don't understand some of these terms, let us know-

-Todd


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## chausman (Aug 1, 2012)

tdrga said:


> I will usually plug the color changer power (the power cord from the "hump" on the fixture) into a non-dim and patch that into a "power" channel that stays parked on. Make sure that the cord doesn't lay across or touch the back of the instrument- it will melt.



To add to this, a normal dimmer with a non-dim profile is not enough. It NEEDS to be an actual non-dim circuit, or a relay/constant module in your dimmer rack. Or, you can also just use a standard wall outlet for the seachanger itself. 

As you are in a new facility, we can probably guess that you have at least one non-dim circuit in your catwalks. 

Also, if you have non-dim (relay/constant) modules for your rack, that aren't installed, make sure you have someone qualified to do the actual removal/installation of a different module.


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## taylors (Aug 1, 2012)

I have more questions, like always... and let me start by saying that I think we only have one universe because we have 1-90 stage pin circuts and then the DMX start at 97 and add four consecutively for the sea changers and then get to the LED at address 145 to 329 adding 8 consecutively. So I don't think that we even have a second universe at all of that makes any difference with the discussion on 1/... 2/... 3/... 

1) When patching, is patch by address and patch by channel differenrt? Is so what, how, why? Or is it just which way you feel more comfortable?

2) The Seachangers are each stage side boom box and on the front of house rail. I understand that they are controlled by DMX. In all of the drawings of the boom boxes it only shows four 20 amp. stage pin female recepticals and two 20 amp. Edison recepticals (4 typ.) on each boom box on each side. We have four lights on each side boom box but only two SeaChangers. I don't see any place where they plug into DMX. Same with the front of house electric, we have the regular lights with stage pins and then twistlock recepticals.

> I will usually plug the color changer power into a non-dim and patch that into a "power" channel that stays parked on.


 I don't understand what that means at all. Would you please explain that with the information I just gave?

3) We have one front of house electric light row, then over stage: 1st electric row, 2nd electric row, 3rd electric row. Ill use the first row for example, the drawings states that on that row it is 23-28, 23-28, & 29-34, 29-34 stage pin pigtails. What does pigtails mean in this situation? On that row there are two of the same numbered circut like so 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and then on to repeating 29-34. How in the world does that work. And it is probably something so simple. I feel real annoying asking all of this. 

Thats all of I can think of right now. Im sure their will be more.


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## chausman (Aug 2, 2012)

taylors said:


> I have more questions, like always... and let me start by saying that I think we only have one universe because we have 1-90 stage pin circuts and then the DMX start at 97 and add four consecutively for the sea changers and then get to the LED at address 145 to 329 adding 8 consecutively. So I don't think that we even have a second universe at all of that makes any difference with the discussion on 1/... 2/... 3/...
> 
> 1) When patching, is patch by address and patch by channel differenrt? Is so what, how, why? Or is it just which way you feel more comfortable?



Patch by Address and Patch by Channel do the same thing, functionality wise, the only difference is the syntax. With Patch By Address, you would type the <address> [@] <desired channel>. With Patch By Channel, you type <desired channel> [@] <address>.

taylors said:


> 2) The Seachangers are each stage side boom box and on the front of house rail. I understand that they are controlled by DMX. In all of the drawings of the boom boxes it only shows four 20 amp. stage pin female recepticals and two 20 amp. Edison recepticals (4 typ.) on each boom box on each side. We have four lights on each side boom box but only two SeaChangers. I don't see any place where they plug into DMX. Same with the front of house electric, we have the regular lights with stage pins and then twistlock recepticals. I don't understand what that means at all. Would you please explain that with the information I just gave?


Yes, seachangers require DMX. Your drawings might not show DMX (although I think that'd be strange) but it "should" be there. 


taylors said:


> 3) We have one front of house electric light row, then over stage: 1st electric row, 2nd electric row, 3rd electric row. Ill use the first row for example, the drawings states that on that row it is 23-28, 23-28, & 29-34, 29-34 stage pin pigtails. What does pigtails mean in this situation? On that row there are two of the same numbered circut like so 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and then on to repeating 29-34. How in the world does that work. And it is probably something so simple.


Pigtails means that instead of the receptacle being flush with the raceway (electrics), it is on its own cord that hangs usually about a 12" - [-]18[/-] 36" down.

The duplicate circuits (while their usefulness is debated) is so you can have multiple fixtures on one circuit without using a two-fer, or to just make it easier to create washes without needing to two-fer many fixtures together or patching a lot of circuits/dimmers together. Make things easier. I personally like it.


taylors said:


> I feel real annoying asking all of this.
> 
> Thats all of I can think of right now. Im sure their will be more.



Don't worry. Everyone starts out asking lots of questions. I think I was probably the most annoying person working on the show for my first few...years? If you want more explanation, just let us know!

Chase H


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## essentials (Aug 2, 2012)

> I will usually plug the color changer power into a non-dim



This can mean more things. A non-dim is a name for a channel or circuit that lacks or is prohibited dimming capability, therefore is either on (100%, full) or off (0%), nothing between that. This can be achieved by setting a dimmer into non-dimming mode (either in patch by setting corresponding DMX output curve or on the dimmer itself), having a relay module instead of a dimmer module or a separate circuit with its own switch (that way, however, you would not be able to control it from desk).

It is very unwise to put non-incandescent load into a circuit with dimmer set to non-dim. Every dimmer distorts power even when outputting at full and leaks voltage when set to zero. Any fixture´s circuitry doesn´t like that and there is a possibility it will malfunct, even broke.


> ...and patch that into a "power" channel that stays parked on.



When working with non-dim channels to power non-incandescent loads (such as Seachanger, although I repeat that you really shouldn´t do that with a dimmer module), it is useful to park that channel to be always on, regarless what you program into your cues or subs. That way you wouldn´t accidentally turn it off.


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## tdrga (Aug 2, 2012)

Other people have answered some of these questions, so I'll just fill in some more info. 


taylors said:


> I have more questions, like always... and let me start by saying that I think we only have one universe because we have 1-90 stage pin circuts and then the DMX start at 97 and add four consecutively for the sea changers and then get to the LED at address 145 to 329 adding 8 consecutively. So I don't think that we even have a second universe at all of that makes any difference with the discussion on 1/... 2/... 3/...



Okay- that does make the numbers management a bit easier. Do you know for a fact that the Seachanger addresses start at 97? If you look at the 3-digit LED display on the Secahanger right after it gets power, it should show the DMX address. Not matching the addresses between the physical fixture and the console patch is one of the the biggest problems with making moving lights work.


taylors said:


> 1) When patching, is patch by address and patch by channel differenrt? Is so what, how, why? Or is it just which way you feel more comfortable?



As Chase said, it's mostly a syntax order difference. Sometimes it is easier to enter dimmer# then channel# and sometimes it makes sense to do the reverse. However, you can only assign channel parts and types when you are in Patch by Channel mode.


taylors said:


> 2) The Seachangers are each stage side boom box and on the front of house rail. I understand that they are controlled by DMX. In all of the drawings of the boom boxes it only shows four 20 amp. stage pin female recepticals and two 20 amp. Edison recepticals (4 typ.) on each boom box on each side. We have four lights on each side boom box but only two SeaChangers. I don't see any place where they plug into DMX. Same with the front of house electric, we have the regular lights with stage pins and then twistlock recepticals. I don't understand what that means at all. Would you please explain that with the information I just gave?



My guess is that the 4 stage pin receptacles are for dimmer circuits and the Edisons are constant or non-dim power. Are the receptacles labeled? That usually gives a good indication of what they are (non-dims might have a ND## label).

Somewhere near the side box boom and FOH rail there should be a panel with a DMX output connector. If your system is networked, there might be a network connection instead, so you can plug in a network node. This might be detailed on a separate drawing from the dimming circuits.

My guess is that the twistlock receptacles are for either worklights (in which case they are probably marked L5-20 for 120v/20A), or for moving light power in which case they might be marked L6-20 for 250v/20A.

As far as patching the Seachanger power, I usually have a "power" channel that is the Seachanger channel + 100 (or 1000). So if the Seachanger (lamp and color changer) is patched to channel 1, its power channel is 101 (or 1001). I plug the Seachanger power into the nearest non-dim circuit (for example, ND400), which is not a dimmer but controlled by a relay so that it is only on or off. Then I patch that non dim into the "power" channel:
*<channel> 101 [@] <address> 400*.

Then I park that "power" channel on at full so the Seachanger always has power when the board is on. From Live:
*<channel> 101 [@] [Full] [Park] [Enter]*

If I need to do a "hard reset" of the Seachanger by turning its power off and on again, I can unpark the particular power channel and then park it back on.

Now, if you don't have any non-dim circuits (which would be unusual in a new installation), then you may have constant power outlets that the Seachangers can plug in to. This means that you won't have control of the Seachanger power from the console- those circuits will always be on unless you turn off the breakers at whichever panel they are fed from.



taylors said:


> 3) We have one front of house electric light row, then over stage: 1st electric row, 2nd electric row, 3rd electric row. Ill use the first row for example, the drawings states that on that row it is 23-28, 23-28, & 29-34, 29-34 stage pin pigtails. What does pigtails mean in this situation? On that row there are two of the same numbered circut like so 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27 and then on to repeating 29-34. How in the world does that work. And it is probably something so simple. I feel real annoying asking all of this.



Chase covered most of this- I'll throw in my opinion that having repeating circuits like this is fine for a FOH position but a pain when on overstage electrics. Sometimes it saves from having to use a two-fer, but mostly it means running a cable from one end of the pipe to the other to get that one extra circuit you need.


taylors said:


> Thats all of I can think of right now. Im sure their will be more.



No problem- it will all make sense eventually and we all started off in the same boat.

-Todd


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## taylors (Aug 2, 2012)

1) With the pigtails, if i have a lamp in circuit 1 and another one in the other circuit 1, then say I patch address 1 @ channel 36. Will channel 36 then control both lights?

2)

> Do you know for a fact that the Seachanger addresses start at 97? If you look at the 3-digit LED display on the Secahanger right after it gets power, it should show the DMX address. Not matching the addresses between the physical fixture and the console patch is one of the the biggest problems with making moving lights work.


 On our map it shows each fixture and the LED's have a D### and then the lamps with the Seachangers have a D###, so I am guessing that the D before the number means that is its DMX address because the LED's do count 8 and the Seachngers do count up 4 like they should. When I get back to school I am going to pull everything down and make sure that the D### on the map matched the DMX address on the equipment. 

3)

> My guess is that the 4 stage pin receptacles are for dimmer circuits and the Edisons are constant or non-dim power. Are the receptacles labeled? That usually gives a good indication of what they are (non-dims might have a ND## label).


 The only thing I can find is that they tell me they are Edisons and there are four outlets and have two of the same numbers. So on one boom box it has 4 edisons with the numbers 70, 71, 70, 71. I think these are the non-dim ones. If these are the non-dim ones will I HAVE to patch the seachangers power? I deffinatly hope so. Ima check next week and if it doesnt work out I will be sure to be back here to ask some more questions.

Thanks so sooo muchh!


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## essentials (Aug 2, 2012)

1) Most propably. Try and see. Don´t forget you should not exceed dimmer´s maximum load. If it is so that some of your circuits have two outlets, they would be paralell, which means their loads add up.

2) Yeah, the joy of double-, triple-, quadriple-checking... 

3) That would depend on how are they controlled. They could be either connected to a relay module or a simple wall switch. Should it be the first case, you would have to patch them and then either park them or programm into your cues and/or subs (in case you wanted them turned off sometime for whatever reason). With a switch there is nothing to patch in first place, just plug in, switch on and have (responsible) fun.


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## MNicolai (Aug 2, 2012)

taylors said:


> 1) With the pigtails, if i have a lamp in circuit 1 and another one in the other circuit 1, then say I patch address 1 @ channel 36. Will channel 36 then control both lights?


If you have two fixtures plugged into the same circuit, they should both come on no matter what when that circuit's dimmer comes on. Don't know if you're two-fering or if you have the same circuits distributed into multiple places, but Circuit 1 in one part of the theatre should be connected to any other instances of Circuit 1 elsewhere in the theatre.

Also, if you had Circuit 1 and Circuit 2 patched to Channel 36, both circuits would turn on when Channel 36 is turned on.


> 2) On our map it shows each fixture and the LED's have a D### and then the lamps with the Seachangers have a D###, so I am guessing that the D before the number means that is its DMX address because the LED's do count 8 and the Seachngers do count up 4 like they should. When I get back to school I am going to pull everything down and make sure that the D### on the map matched the DMX address on the equipment.



Sounds about right. They don't have to be sequential though. If Fixture A is an 8-channel device at address 100, Fixture B doesn't have to start at 109. You can have B start at 110, C at 120, D at 130, so on. Whatever makes more sense to you.


> 3) The only thing I can find is that they tell me they are Edisons and there are four outlets and have two of the same numbers. So on one boom box it has 4 edisons with the numbers 70, 71, 70, 71. I think these are the non-dim ones. If these are the non-dim ones will I HAVE to patch the seachangers power? I deffinatly hope so. Ima check next week and if it doesnt work out I will be sure to be back here to ask some more questions.



If they're non-dims, that could mean one of two things. They could be constant power -- meaning no matter what they have power all the time coming out of the receptacles no matter what the lighting console is doing. It could also mean they're relays, in which case they can be remotely turned on and off whenever the lighting console tells those circuits to go above a threshold point, which generally is 50%. At 51%, the circuit would be turned on at full (unlike a dimmer where 51% means the fixture is on at 51% brightness).


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## taylors (Aug 2, 2012)

One lady at my school did the 2 hour traning and took notes, but I applied the information and kept learning. I was talking to her and she said that 67-79 is parked for all non-dimmed. and I looked on the maps and that includes the boom boxes and all of the electric rows on stage where the LED's "I think" are pluged into. If anyone remembers I said I was starting from scratch. So can some one please tell me over-simply how to park these 67-79 circuts so that they are ALWAYS on and once I park them, I should never have to worry about them ever again. That would be my dream. lol. 


this is all making some, a liittle, sense. I am going back to school to work on some of this Tuesday so until then ill just keep studying the maps and then expirment. thanks for everything!


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## tdrga (Aug 3, 2012)

taylors said:


> One lady at my school did the 2 hour traning and took notes, but I applied the information and kept learning. I was talking to her and she said that 67-79 is parked for all non-dimmed. and I looked on the maps and that includes the boom boxes and all of the electric rows on stage where the LED's "I think" are pluged into. If anyone remembers I said I was starting from scratch. So can some one please tell me over-simply how to park these 67-79 circuts so that they are ALWAYS on and once I park them, I should never have to worry about them ever again.



The commands for parking those circuits on from the Live screen is:
{Park} [Dim/Address] 67 [thru] 79 [@] [Full] [Enter]

After you type this, you should be in the Park screen and see the parked dimmers at 100% listed on the bottom half of the screen. At the top right of the screen, you should also see the words "Parked Dimmers" (next to the time).

Those circuits will stay on as long as the board is on and that show is loaded.

As other people have mentioned, it is important to check that the modules for those circuits are actually relay modules and not regular dimmers. Powering electronic devices from regular dimmers, even at Full, can cause damage to the equipment. It might not be a bad idea to take a look at the dimmer rack, if you can get access to it, just to see what modules are installed and figure out what circuits 91 - 96 do (houselights?)

-Todd


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## taylors (Aug 3, 2012)

I understand the parked channels now. 

I just looked through the big information book and found the rack schedule and I figured a lot out. It was a table and it had the circuit number, description, and D20 or R20. The dimmers are 1-66 and have D20. Then all of the power on all stages rows, FOH, and boom boxes are 67-79 and have a R20. The the aisle lights are 80 with R20. And the house lights are 81-96. with D20. Does the D20 mean the regular dimmers and would R20 mean the relay ones? If that is what R & D means that makes a lot of sense, D is dimmers and can be set at any level. Which would be all the dimmers and the house lights. And R would be the relay ones. Either off or on. Which would be the POW and aisle lights.

Does the information in that table answer the question? If not and I am able to get up there and look at the dimmer modules, what do I look for? How do I tell the difference? Or does that table tell me everything that I need to know? 


You guys don't know how much of a blessing this has been. A 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 thanks.


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## essentials (Aug 3, 2012)

Dimmer module
Relay module

(Hint: look on the right side. Less LED´s.) EDIT: read derek´s post below, I wasn´t right on this one.

You don´t have to look at the rack to find out though. Just plug a fixture designed to be dimmed (basically any "classic" fixture with an incandescend bulb, definitely no ML) into a circuit and bring it on slowly. If it comes up in a nice fluent curve from dark through dimm to bright, the circuit you´re inspecting is fed from a dimmer module. If it does nothing for a while and then suddenly flash to full, it is definitely a relay module.

However, I suspect you have no relays in your place. Their corresponding circuits _should_ be numbered differently then the rest or marked otherwise to distinct them easily.


> 91-96 is the house light. Any advice on how to patch those? Or just patch them like I would patch a regular dimmer?


That depends on what are they plugged into. If it´s a dimmer, patch a dimmer. It is very likely to be a dimmer, you should find out by looking at the patch of the showfile you already have.

I appologize if I am wrong, but I suspect you do not fully understand the concept of power distribution and control. I suggest studying it a little, there are many great papers on that online and free, e.g. here, for starters.

As for your earlier question, there is no way to park a channel for ever and ever on Element. Actually, on anything computer-based, I think. Except for a few basic options and preferences mostly regarding the control desk itself, all show data are stored within a showfile, patch included. So every time you open a new, blank showfile you have to either start from scratch or import patch, macros, presets or anything you need. On Element you would do that by partially opening an existing showfile or merging two existing together. I suggest saving a "basic" showfile with nothing but patch and your favorite preferences and leave it to have a base to start on everytime you programm a new show.


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## derekleffew (Aug 3, 2012)

taylors said:


> I understand the parked channels now. If I am able to get up there and look at the dimmer modules, what do I look for? How will I be able to tell which ones are which? The difference between relay modules and regular dimmers? ...


*With proper adult supervision*, open the dimmer rack door. Inside you'll see: 


Sensor Installation Racks
There are 24 dual dimmer modules stacked on the top, then the CEM, then 24 more on the bottom. Look at the very right of each module. They should resemble:


http://www.usedledlighting.com/2311/etc-d20-dimmer-module

*Instead of "D20" or "D20AF", your relay modules will say "R20" (or "R20AF"; or "R15".) "D" stands for Dimmer, "R" stands for Relay. The "20" is the number of ampere s (amps), most commonly 20, but could be 15, 50, or 100. "AF" stands for "Advanced Featured" which allows the dimmer/relay modules to report back to the console their status and other information. While a nice upgrade to have, they are rarely used to their full potentional, and do cost significantly more; you likely don't have that option. So don't worry if your modules don't have red "Power" LEDs.

Illustration of an R20AF module removed from rack:

From the front, looks exactly the same as a dimmer module excet for the name between the LEDs.
I suspect you'll find that "dimmers" 67-79 are all actually R20 (or R15) modules, and all terminate in Edison (NEMA 5-15) outlet s. Take this as a sign that your installation was well-planned, with an eye to the future with less emphasis on dimming incandescent sources and more on moving lights and LEDs.

To head off another potential question: You may observe that, rather then being numbered 1-96 from top to bottom, your rack is numbered (on the left side next to each circuit breaker) 1,2,7,8,13,14, 3,4,9,10,15,16 ... 95,96. The purpose of this is to equally distribute the dimmers among the three phases of your power. It's referred to as a "balanced rack." That's all you need to know about that.

*DO NOT* remove any modules, or touch *anything*, without proper instruction from, or under the supervison of, a Qualified Person, per the NEC. I can't emphasize this enough: dimmer racks contain lethal deadly voltage. Rules and procedures about safety when working on/around dimmer racks have strengthened over the years as we have become more aware of the risks. See the wiki entry Lock-Out/Tag-Out.

Note also that the CEM (or CEM+ or CEM3) is a microprocessor, and that major fuxation can happen by pushing buttons if you don't know what you're doing. After twenty years working with these, I will still often *call ETC at 1.800.688.4116* when I have to perform certain operations on them that I'm unsure about or can't remember the keystrokes. At your level you'll probably never have to do anything with the CEM, unless instructed to do so by ETC or a dealer.


taylors said:


> ... Ohhh yesss 91-96 is the house light. You guys are so smart! I remember seeing that in the old show. Any advice on how to patch those? Or just patch them like I would patch a regular dimmer? ...


Just patch them like you would any dimmer. Most people like to use a channel like (100) or (250) or whatever the very last channel you have available. Note that if you have (likely) a slider panel backstage or entry stations with 5-button presets, you have a Unison or Paradigm architectural lighting control system which can also control, and will possibly over-ride, your Element console talking to your houselights. Do you have anything on the walls of your theatre that resemble one/some/all of these?




essentials said:


> ...(Hint: look on the right side. Less LED´s.)...


Not necessarily. Depends on whether or not the modules are "AF" or standard. See above.

essentials said:


> ... As for your earlier question, there is no way to park a channel for ever and ever on Element. Actually, on anything computer-based, I think. ...


Which is why ETC offers a CC20 module, that works exactly like a circuit breaker on any panel. I would arguably have specified these instead of R20 modules in a high school application. The pros include eliminating the patching and parking. The downsides include not having any control from the console, and having to go to the dimmer rack to turn the circuit off or perform a hard reset. But that's purely academic. *taylors* appears to have a nice installation, one that many CB-ers would kill for. Now we just have to get him up to speed on its use. I shudder a little when we move on from the hardware and get to the design questions.

-----
EDIT: Posted simultaneously with *essentials*' post. (But since I had already done all this typing and linking...).


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## tdrga (Aug 3, 2012)

essentials said:


> I suggest saving a "basic" showfile with nothing but patch and your favorite preferences and leave it to have a base to start on everytime you programm a new show.



Big yes to this. Get a template file set up the way you like and save it. I name my template file so it starts with an underscore ("_<theater name> Template") so it shows up at the top of the file list.

I always start a new production by opening the template file and immediately do a "Save As" to save the show with the name of my current show.

My template file has gone through 5 years of evolution as I change/add new things but I always know where the standard things are patched and how the console is set up when I start.

-Todd


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## chausman (Aug 3, 2012)

Yes, many of us are very jealous. 

As has been said, modules listed as R20 are relays, (on/off only) modules listed as D20 are dimmers (~0%-100%). I will add to that though, if you ever have a qualified person, per NEC, swapping modules around, make a new rack schedule. 

In fact, I'd spend some time in excel/word and create some of those documents again and whenever there are major changes, create a new file with those changes, so you don't have to play the guessing game again. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## essentials (Aug 3, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Which is why ETC offers a CC20 module, that works exactly like a circuit breaker on any panel. I would arguably have specified these instead of R20 modules in a high school application.



Speaking of academical questions, wouldn´t it be cheaper and yet still functional the same to have a breaker panel instead of a rack full of CC modules? In my opinion, CC´s comes in handy as a replacement for dimmer modules, should the appropriate situation arise.



chausman said:


> In fact, I'd spend some time in excel/word and create some of those documents again and whenever there are major changes, create a new file with those changes, so you don't have to play the guessing game again.



Most definitely. These things tend to get messy unexpectably fast. It is more than useful to have all information written down, kept in the booth and worshipped as a bible rather than trying to remember 20 minutes before house opens.


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## chausman (Aug 3, 2012)

essentials said:


> Speaking of academical questions, wouldn´t it be cheaper and yet still functional the same to have a breaker panel instead of a rack full of CC modules? In my opinion, CC´s comes in handy as a replacement for dimmer modules, should the appropriate situation arise.



If you were to put in a rack simply for a bunch of CC's then a separate panel is probably cheaper. If you were to only have part if your rack full, then CCs would probably be much cheaper then a whole other panel put in.


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## derekleffew (Aug 3, 2012)

essentials said:


> Speaking of academical questions, wouldn't it be cheaper and yet still functional the same to have a breaker panel instead of a rack full of CC modules? ...


I'm NOT an electrical contractor (but I did look at conduit at a Holiday Inn Express last night) ...
A "rack full"? Yes. But just a "few," considering they likely want to be interspersed in the connector strip with dimming circuits, run in the same conduit, and going to the same place (the dimmer rack)? Then, no. Probably. Factor in both materials AND labor.


essentials said:


> chausman said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, I'd spend some time in excel/word and create some of those documents again and whenever there are major changes, create a new file with those changes, so you don't have to play the guessing game again.
> ...


I really like making/using a Dimmer/Circuit Map--a visual representation of where all my outlets are and what they're numbered. One can even use it to do a quick and dirty light plot.


The above was done in MS Excel, but any drawing/drafting program will work. It needn't be exactly to scale. Minimally, keep one in the booth and one near the dimmer rack. I'd use *bold* or _italic_ or a different font to distinguish between regular dimmers, relay circuits, houselight circuits, or whatever (with appropriate Symbol Key, of course).


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## essentials (Aug 3, 2012)

We keep a spreadsheet used as a template for channel hook-up with circuit/dimmer number/DMX address, outlet number and default channel number (as patched in a template showfile). This is then combined with fixture schedule resulting to a single sheet containing all information possible, so you don´t have to look for what you need in various places.

Outlets have been renumbered and we don´t use original ciruit numbering because it just didn´t make sense to anyone. I suspect it has something to do with rack balancing, though I see no reason why would one balance loads across phases by uneven circuit spread rather than by dimmer wiring (which I am pretty sure is wired unbalanced, in consecutive order, but I could be wrong). Or am I missing something and there actually is a reason for placing all even 20s on the SL boom and all uneven on SR with two 40s added on each side without observable logic?


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## Chris Chapman (Aug 3, 2012)

Okay, this has been a great Thread. I just added 10 Selador Vivid-R's to my inventory and am going to use them as wash lights. I'm running an Ion, so individual instrument addressing is fine and I can program control via Palettes for colors, etc. As I go through the Selador manual, I've run into a new term for me, "DMX Line-loading." What are "line-loading calculations?" My experience is primarily with conventionals, and a few DMX devices, so these will be my first MAJOR DMX lighting programing experience. As I understand the Selador Manual, I should be setting DIFFERENT addresses to each device. Just for giggles, what WOULD happen if all 10 had the same address? Also, what happens if the final instrument isn't DMX terminated? My vendor said I should be okay without termination, but (again) the manual says I need the termination.


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## essentials (Aug 3, 2012)

Chris Chapman said:


> Just for giggles, what WOULD happen if all 10 had the same address?



They would be all affected by one control channel. It does not matter how many fixtures listen to the same address, only thing that happens is they react all the same, without a possibility to control them separately. You can simulate this behavior by multipatching into one control channel or recording a group.


Chris Chapman said:


> Also, what happens if the final instrument isn't DMX terminated? My vendor said I should be okay without termination, but (again) the manual says I need the termination.



Unless your DMX line is longer than approx. 500 ft, it is unlikely for a signal corruption to occur. More on termination here.


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## sk8rsdad (Aug 3, 2012)

Chris Chapman said:


> As I go through the Selador manual, I've run into a new term for me, "DMX Line-loading." What are "line-loading calculations?"



DMX line loading likely refers the maximum number of devices per run (32-ish well-behaved devices) and the maximum length of a run (1200m). I would spend the 5 bucks on a terminator, especially for a facility install.

You can assign the same address to an arbitrary number devices and they would all respond to whatever is sent to that address.


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## MNicolai (Aug 3, 2012)

As for line-loading, I'd venture a guess you're talking about how much you can connect to a chain before it goes belly-up.

You can connect up to 32 fixtures in a chain before things get messy and you need another universe of DMX or a distribution amplifier.


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## derekleffew (Aug 3, 2012)

Chris Chapman said:


> ... As I go through the Selador manual, I've run into a new term for me, "DMX Line-loading." What are "line-loading calculations?" ...


From http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/manuals/Selador_Series_User_Manual_ETL_revF.pdf , p. 14 (pdf p. 17):

> DMX line-loading practice dictates that no more than 31 devices can be daisy-chained
> together. Consequently, no combination of Selador fixtures totaling more than 31 DMX
> devices should be configured in one DMX line. For example, twenty 6-cell units (30 DMX
> devices) are okay. Twenty-one 6-cell units (31.5 DMX devices) are not acceptable. For runs
> of fixtures totaling more than 31 DMX devices, split the DMX runs by using a DMX splitter.


aka opto-splitter, which extends the limit to (number of outputs x 31), and one can plug the output of one opto into the input of another, thus extending indefinitely.

"DMX Line-loading" refers to the number of DMX devices on any given output stream (daisy chain). It has nothing to do with addresses, and makes no difference whether all fixtures are the same or unique address es. Often the rule is "no more than 32 devices, and the sender (console) counts as one." However, this is not technically accurate: 

derekleffew said:


> chausman said:
> 
> 
> > DMX is limited to 32 devices.
> ...



-----

Chris Chapman said:


> ... Also, what happens if the final instrument isn't DMX terminated? My vendor said I should be okay without termination, but (again) the manual says I need the termination.


One doesn't HAVE to use a terminator, DMX, just as one doesn't HAVE to wear seatbelts or buy health insurance (bad example, given current politics). And many people don't and report never having problems. Do you terminate your DMX lines?

What might happen? Erratic behavior: LEDs flashing one, some, or all colors, moving mirrors twitching, or lights otherwise "freaking out." See also the DFD document Why Terminate?


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