# Switched XLR socket - does it exist?



## Chris15 (Apr 18, 2012)

Does anyone know if any reputable manufacturer makes a panel mount XLR (3pin) with some kind of switching functionality?

The application is an installed AV system where upon plugging in an external mixer, the set and forget basic setup is bypassed...


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## derekleffew (Apr 18, 2012)

A 3pin version of this? Neutrik - Audio - A Series - NC5FAV-SW Perhaps some massaging of the model number will yield a 3pin version.


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## chausman (Apr 18, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> A 3pin version of this? Neutrik - Audio - A Series - NC5FAV-SW Perhaps some massaging of the model number will yield a 3pin version.



As one might hope, NC3FAV-SW does not exist, although one would think that would be a 3 pin version. However, you could use that receptacle with an adaptor, 5-3


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## JohnHartman (Apr 18, 2012)

chausman said:


> As one might hope, NC3FAV-SW does not exist, although one would think that would be a 3 pin version. However, you could use that receptacle with an adaptor, 5-3



according to neutrik's documentation it is available in 3, 4, or 5 pin variety on request. Look at the product guide on the linked site document page 25, PDF page 17
although it is not listed in the ordering guide at the end of the book.


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## derekleffew (Apr 18, 2012)

chausman said:


> ... However, you could use that receptacle with an adapter, 5-3


Let's take some time to think of the many reasons why an adapter would be undesirable in this application.


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## chausman (Apr 18, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> Let's take some time to think of the many reasons why an adapter would be undesirable in this application.



Your going to just have to say it, because the only thing I can think of is because, according to JohnHartman, the correct configuration is available on request.


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## Chris15 (Apr 19, 2012)

You can think all you like, as the client as well as the installer in this equation, an adapter ain't happening. I will rig a photo diode across the front of the wall plate before I will have an adapter needed...

I suspect Neutrik's "on request" is code to say we can make if you want to buy 1000 at a time...


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## MNicolai (Apr 19, 2012)

You'd probably want to come up with an enclosure for this with some XLR ins and outs, but this A-B switch may work for you: http://www.crutchfield.com/p_190ABS1/Niles-ABS-1-FG00271.html?stop_mobi=yes

It has the advantage of detecting which pair of L/R inputs is playing a signal, then kills the opposing source for however long you tell it to.


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## museav (Apr 19, 2012)

Chris15 said:


> Does anyone know if any reputable manufacturer makes a panel mount XLR (3pin) with some kind of switching functionality?
> 
> The application is an installed AV system where upon plugging in an external mixer, the set and forget basic setup is bypassed...


Chris, could the two coexist as two inputs into a simple summing network? Do you have a matrix DSP or similar that could be used to reroute inputs? Could it be a TRS jack rather than an XLR? I know you want to avoid adapters, but would a 3 pin to 5 pin cable with the two extra pins jumpered to trigger a switch be possible, I often use this general approach to identify the lectern location when I have multiple locations for a portable lectern? Or even a simple toggle switch on the plate itself?


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## Chris15 (Apr 19, 2012)

Just so we're clear, I'm perfectly able to create a complicated solution but I don't want to. I want simple, and something that will survive a user of the lowest common denominator...

The switch is proposed to be an input to Crestron, need I say more


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## museav (Apr 19, 2012)

Chris15 said:


> Just so we're clear, I'm perfectly able to create a complicated solution but I don't want to. I want simple, and something that will survive a user of the lowest common denominator...
> 
> The switch is proposed to be an input to Crestron, need I say more


I guess I misunderstood, it sounds like you are looking for a receptacle that will provide a contact closure when a connector is inserted when I thought you might be looking for something that physically breaks the 'normal' path and takes the signal from the inserted connector when you insert a connector, something like this, NJ6FD-V - Neutrik.

I've always handled 'operating mode' switching via additional contacts on the connectors or most often via dedicated switches.


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## Chris15 (Apr 19, 2012)

So let me paint a slightly broader picture...
I'm setting up a meeting room in an NFP context.
In it's normal state it will be setup to deal with sound from laptops, BluRay, etc.
What we also want to provision for is to be able to plug an external mixer in (from our portable system to be bought still) and when that's connected, it feeds the amp and speakers in the room.

So it needs to be something that is dead simple for a volunteer who visits the building once or twice a year to get working. I'm not interested in getting a phone call every week for someone who either can't find the switch to enable the external mixer or find the switch when the other guy forgot to switch it back.

Hence I wanted a simple, if it's plugged in, it's switched through, if it's unplugged it's not.
There will likely to some functionality setup in Crestron land to lock out local control and override everything when one or 2 "power users" are in the building and stretching the system to its limits and beyond.

Yes I could very well just wire the inputs with 5 or 6 pin XLRs and short contacts for switching, but I can see those special cables getting lost amongst the general purpose XLR3 cables in the portable system or at any rate, the room also has operable walls and so I need to be able to run a line in from another room twice a year and I don't want to deal with special cabling there either.
There are numerous advantages to having a stock standard XLR3 as the input...


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## museav (Apr 19, 2012)

The Neutrik 1/4" jacks I linked would seem to do what you want and 1/4" TRS cables are pretty standard, unfortunately they don't seem to offer those connectors in locking versions so I can see that being a potential concern.

It sounds like the portable system is self contained other than the speaker system, so would having the house system outputs and the connections for a portable mixer wired to summing circuits where both system are always available be an option? Unless you are concerned with physically cutting of the audio from the installed system that would seem to be pretty foolproof even if somone left the portable system or cables connected.

Sort of 'out of the boxc' but how about an audio sensing relay that senses audio on the portable system inputs and tells the Crestron system to switch to that mode with the Crestron logic then keeping the system in that mode for a set period of time or until reset to a different mode? That way the switch to the portable system would be automatic whenever the portable system is used but the room could automatically revert to 'normal' mode if the portable system is not used for some period.


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## headcrab (Apr 19, 2012)

What if you had a capacitive sensor of some sort connected to the shield pin (not pin 1) on a standard xlr connector? You'd be watching charge flow out through the shield, and trigger something based upon that.


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## pmolsonmus (Apr 19, 2012)

Not sure if this will work, but its what we've resorted to for our school cafeteria. Wall input has a mic input and line input clearly labeled. We use one of these for the input challenged who use the room.

podMIX - Catalog - Whirlwind

Mount it on a little cart and label the out put to match the wall input. We do this so I don't have to be around for every event.

It works for us.

Good Luck,

Phil


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## ccm1495 (Apr 19, 2012)

If there is already a mixer built in to handle day to day stuff, couldn't you just install a normal xlr jack that runs back to a line level input on the mixer. then as long as the plug is clearly labeled "external mixer input" nobody will mess with it and there will be no need for a switch. It would be dead simple to take the main out from the mixer and plug it in. Also when you have the external mixer hooked up why do you have to disable the built in sound? In the situation I described you would essentially when you had the external mixer plugged in be adding extra controllable inputs to your system an the others such as the ones for computers that you talked about would remain operable. 

Or Maybe I haven't quite understood what you are looking for.


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## Chris15 (Apr 19, 2012)

Not to be rude, but guys I asked if there was an XLR socket with a switch inbuilt, not for solutions to my system design.

There are various reasons why I want to implement things the way I do and many of them will be over the heads of the majority of the readership...


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## DuckJordan (Apr 20, 2012)

Chris not to be rude, but you are going about this in a very backwards way, The crestron systems can handle "sensing" of an input, keeping the channel muted until it gets a signal (above a certain DB in case you're worried about noise) it can then switch to that input alone. You can also set an attack time to determine how long the signal has to be above a certain DB to activate the digital switch, and a release time to tell the sytem how long before it should let normal operation continue. I really think you should rethink your system design. Its counter productive to work without a system that is already going to be put in place.


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## Chris15 (Apr 20, 2012)

As a designer, I have certain "signature" elements to the way that I construct a design, and that's part of what makes me different to every other person on the planet - any system is going to have some hallmarks of the way the designer thinks embedded into it...

So yes I can do things like signal level detection, but frankly I don't want to.
I want something that's simple, mechanical and most importantly reliable.

One of the design options looking likely is that I'll be using Apart Audio SDQ-5PIR speakers which have 2 inputs, one of which will connect to the AV system and the other will connect directly to the line input XLRs.
I need to tell Crestron when something is plugged in so it can issue the relevant RS232 for the SDQs to change inputs.

There is no Crestron gear in the audio chain at that point nor do I want any extra gear to be in that chain. A mechanical switch that when it goes connected sends a signal high in Cres which then triggers an RS232 command and triggers another command upon removal is trivially simple to implement.
KISS Principle applies here...


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## derekleffew (Apr 20, 2012)

Chris15 said:


> ... I will rig a photo diode across the front of the wall plate before I will have an adapter needed ...


Actually, not a horrible idea. (Perhaps use a micro-switch rather than a photo diode, however.) 

I once did a show where the boat wouldn't move if the propane fill door on the dock was open. The assumption being that _if_ the door was open, the propane hose _might_ be connected, and would be ripped apart if the boat sailed away from the dock. Now perhaps a propane flow sensor would have been more precise, but the hose could still have been connected with no flow. Draw your own audio analogies.


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## philhaney (Apr 20, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> A 3pin version of this? Neutrik - Audio - A Series - NC5FAV-SW Perhaps some massaging of the model number will yield a 3pin version.



No they don't make a 3-pin version. But might it be worth it to get a couple of the 5-pin switched models (NC5FAV-SW) and a couple of the 3-pin non-switched models (NC3FAV) and try to swap the centers?

Or look at how the switch is mounted on the 5-pin model, then get a 3-pin model and add your own micro-switch? It would involve a Dremel or similar tool and some time, but it could be done.


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## bennosteve (Jan 30, 2015)

Chris15 said:


> Does anyone know if any reputable manufacturer makes a panel mount XLR (3pin) with some kind of switching functionality?
> 
> The application is an installed AV system where upon plugging in an external mixer, the set and forget basic setup is bypassed...


I needed some of these for a current (Jan, 2015) project. Neutrik will make them in 3 pin if you order 5000 of them.


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## FMEng (Jan 30, 2015)

It would be a whole lot easier to use a 4 or 5 pin connector, and simply use two of the contacts of the cable connector wired in a loop. Close the circuit by plugging in the connector. (A 4 pin connector would complete a connection to ground pin 1. A 5 pin connector would provide a floating short from pin 4 to pin 5.) The completed circuit could drive a GPIO, relay coil, or opto-isolator.


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## jkowtko (Jan 30, 2015)

If you google for "XLR A/B switch" you will see some products listed. They aren't cheap, and you do have to throw a switch one way or the other, but it's pretty simple and intuitive.

Otherwise I think you just want to use a normalling jack as used in patchbays. Such jacks are usually only provided as TRS ... if you must have XLR inputs, then provide an XLR-to-TRS along with the normalled jack.


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## Mwchris (Jan 30, 2015)

Chris15 said:


> As a designer, I have certain "signature" elements to the way that I construct a design, and that's part of what makes me different to every other person on the planet - any system is going to have some hallmarks of the way the designer thinks embedded into it...
> 
> So yes I can do things like signal level detection, but frankly I don't want to.
> I want something that's simple, mechanical and most importantly reliable.
> ...



I'm going to say this and probably get banned, but as someone that tours many different facilities per year a "signature design element" often translates to "non-standard" way of solving a common problem/issue.

What happens when the simple mechanical switch you propose fails or becomes stuck in an undesired position? Now your signature element no longer has an easy work around and now everyone is screwed.

Several folks have offered reasonable more standard solutions including a simple a/b switch, to a level sensing system.

While I respect your desire to put your own spin on the system, perhaps there is a reason your suggested method is not readily available?? I would much rather have a standard solution so WHEN an issue arises it doesn't stop the venue in its tracks waiting for another special order part to be located.

I know this is not the feedback you asked for, but there are a lot of bright folks here.


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## Chris15 (Jan 31, 2015)

Might I point out this discussion started 2 and a half years ago, the project was installed a long time ago...


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## Edrick (Jan 31, 2015)

So what was the final verdict


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Chris15 (Feb 2, 2015)

Hard to remember exactly...
I think the client ended up changing the project scope and it became an XLR patch panel locked in a cupboard somewhere that gets manually repatched the few times a year they need to...


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