# Remote Pinspots?



## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi all! I am a big fan of this site! I have an odd question though. I do corporate event lighting and we often do pinspotting on centerpieces for evening events/weddings, although relatively simple they become a pain because of the constant shuffling of table placement, centerpiece selection, making it difficult to constantly re-focus 100 pinspot instruments multiple times! My question is: are there DMX controlled moving pinspots? Little moving light par 36 or 38's? I think if we could focus from the board it would be much easier! Any ideas?


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## NickJones (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi Bri,
Welcome to CB, introduce yourself over at the New Member Section.

The first moving light ever made was a PAR can that moves, so yes they are out there. Martin and Vari-Lite are two of the better moving light brands but will cost you. Chauvet used to make them, you can find a link to one here. and of course China makes ones like this.

Last week we discussed the Martin MiniMacs a discontinued small Moving Head fixture that would be perfect for you, you can read the thread here. They sell for around $500-1000 US depending on the condition and wheter it is Wash or Profile.

eBay turned up these two moving head PARs but they aren't cheap... So my advice to you is, if can afford it, do it, but the price it will cost you makes it WAAY more feesable just to keep re-focusing. Sorry.

Nick


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## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks so much Nick! This is exactly what I needed to know.


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## avkid (Jul 1, 2009)

I don't do automated luminaries, so take this for what it's worth.

The Chauvet MIN spot seems to be what you're looking for-
Products MiN? Spot | | CHAUVET Lighting


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## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

Well Im sure what I'm asking for is going to cost too much... but it was worth the shot! 


That is a pic of what we basically hang, 6 to a pipe for 70-100 tables whose configurations change. The way I envisioned it was a little motor on the yoke and tilt adjustment to assist in aiming them, all by dmx. But from the looks of things I better dream on! 

Thanks for all the great info.


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## soundlight (Jul 1, 2009)

If you don't need dimming and you're OK with a moving mirror, old Roboscan 812s are going up on sleazebay all the time, and are also available elsewhere fairly cheap. That would also afford you color and gobo options. It's a 150w fixture, too, which is nice for power consumption vs. a 250 watt halogen or discharge scanner.


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## avkid (Jul 1, 2009)

Ahh...I know exactly what you want.

Unfortunately you could pay a Union Electrician for a week with the cash required.
Apollo Design | Right Arm


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## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

The problem with the roboscans is that I doubt we would hang 100 robo scans to pin light every table.... thats what makes those darn little 30w pinspots so cute! 

Thanks!


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## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

Avkid, yup.... that is one cool device! Of course, the cost is the issue... thats what I figured.... You guys are awesome!


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## soundlight (Jul 1, 2009)

How much _would_ you pay for a DMX remote P/T pinspot, just for reference?


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## Bri (Jul 1, 2009)

hmmmm..... id say maybe $60-100 each... the pin spots we buy are about $25 each now... but it's my TD's decision. I'm just putting in some research ;-)


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## Footer (Jul 1, 2009)

Bri said:


> hmmmm..... id say maybe $60-100 each... the pin spots we buy are about $25 each now... but it's my TD's decision. I'm just putting in some research ;-)



the Min spot for 300 I think is your best option. An ellipscan costs more then 300. Now, have a hundred of those things in the air could be pretty cool later in the evening. A 30k investment might not be fun at first, but it could be pretty cool. If you want to push for these, thats the angle I would ride. They can do a lot more then just keep you from dragging out a ladder. If you want to buy them just from keeping you from doing actual work, I think you are working on a pipe dream.


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## ship (Jul 4, 2009)

Years ago I worked for a company that did the pinspot centerpiece. Frequently we would wait until the tables were placed before we would focus the lamps. A-Frame ladders are easy to move about short of chairs in the way and the goal is that center piece on the table which if done right a pinspot often does well and economically.

Not so sure about this moving light concept for each table, cost of fixture, time to focus each remotely from the light board which ain't local, and beyond that the pinspot has a certain beamspread and look to it. If mostly not right above the center piece or at desired angle to it, a table if moved and two feet away won't look the same short of moving that fixture no matter what you do to refocus that mirror as it were. Not my style of lighting but did about a year of such lighting and it did have its certain look to it.

In my experience, the table rental company or those setting up the tables set them up according to a plot that the lighting company also has in design. Pre-hang the lights according to the plot and during focus after the tables are in place and even after the center piece you are to light is in place, come back to focus those lights. At that point with out chairs or chairs moved out of the way it is easy enough to say move the table some or move the fixture but definately touch up that focus onto the focus. Following all set and ready, a broom handle is useful especially if say it is say a stage brace or double hook coat hanger on it's end so as to also move about the yoke if needed.

Such gigs not a hard thing and I don't think moving lights required for more than the flash and trash part of it. This much less just because you can refocus it remotely doesn't mean either from a remote position you can focus onto that location properly or that if the fixture is hung at the wrong angle, any ability to refocus it will help light what is a down light type lighting short of moving the fixture from its position.


Yea, typically we would have lamp bars of pinspots and they would be at angles, given that a moving light if also at an angle could do so, but so much more expensive, much less not able to side arm or rooster out towards that focus. In general one moving light per table I would think not needed and cost prohivivite.


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## Bri (Jul 4, 2009)

ship, thanks for the information. I work for the hotel industry, we have no say in the table placement, decisions of rearrangement, etc. We try to have them hold off on chairs but they have a seperate schedule to adhere to, as do the clients that provide the centerpeices... nothing is ever as planned on paper.. that is mainly why I was looking for an alternative to driving our lift in to focus them, our ceilings are 28'( we also have specific areas we can hang in, therefore the pinspots are not directly above the tables), I'm short, usually the only one doing pinspots and don't have a ladder to accomodate...Currently I move chairs, drive in, re-focus, move chairs back, and hope they stay that way haha! Just thought I would throw the idea out there see if they existed. From the looks of things I will be doing the same ol thing  Thanks to everyone who answered. You all rock!

--Bri


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## SAWYeR (Jul 4, 2009)

Soundlight, I really thoroughly enjoyed your word "sleazebay." I plan on using it now  Kinda like me calling the Home Depot the Home Despot


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## willbb123 (Jul 4, 2009)

SAWYeR said:


> Soundlight, I really thoroughly enjoyed your word "sleazebay." I plan on using it now  Kinda like me calling the Home Depot the Home Despot



Totally unrelated, but I also work at a competitor of Home Depot. We've got plenty of names for them and the other stores, most of which I shouldn't post here.


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## len (Jul 4, 2009)

Bri said:


> Hi all! I am a big fan of this site! I have an odd question though. I do corporate event lighting and we often do pinspotting on centerpieces for evening events/weddings, although relatively simple they become a pain because of the constant shuffling of table placement, centerpiece selection, making it difficult to constantly re-focus 100 pinspot instruments multiple times! My question is: are there DMX controlled moving pinspots? Little moving light par 36 or 38's? I think if we could focus from the board it would be much easier! Any ideas?



I wish, but even that Chauvet product is too big a beam.

All I can say is put a clause in your contract that final positioning of tables has to be done by X PM, or X amount of time before the start of the event.


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## David Ashton (Jul 5, 2009)

A relatively low cost solution might be security camera pan and tilt mechanisms, in bulk, they may be low enough cost.


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## Bri (Jul 5, 2009)

I think I found what I was looking for!

American DJ Homepage - American DJ Products Include Disco Lights, Music, Club Lighting, DJ Lights, Special Effects, Professional Lighting, & DJ Audio Gear. Quality, Affordable, & Reliable Special Effects Lighting & Audio Products. From A Company You 

Going to do some more research, but thats basically it!  Yay!


Ohhh and they are about $150 each, not too bad


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## David Ashton (Jul 5, 2009)

Neither the intensity nor the colour [CRI] will be close to your pinspots.


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## renegadeblack (Jul 5, 2009)

Also, do you have a console currently to control them? Being as you had fairly stationary light before, I would assume they were somewhat hard wired. Also keep in mind, that it's no picnic to program moving lights. 

The cost of a console could be a problem if you dont already have one. You may want to go with something like MagicQ and get a USB DMX dongle, I've heard MagicQ is good with programming lights.


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## soundlight (Jul 5, 2009)

Bri said:


> I think I found what I was looking for!
> 
> American DJ Homepage - American DJ Products Include Disco Lights, Music, Club Lighting, DJ Lights, Special Effects, Professional Lighting, & DJ Audio Gear. Quality, Affordable, & Reliable Special Effects Lighting & Audio Products. From A Company You
> 
> ...



You only get pan movement out of that, not tilt. You'll have to adjust tilt by climbing up to the unit. I knew about that unit but didn't recommend it for that reason. It's also not going to look nearly as good as a regular 4515 pinspot on centerpieces because of the harsh color temperature.


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## Bri (Jul 5, 2009)

Thanks guys, to respond to all of that here is a few responses.

**The Color Temperature may/may not be an issue.... but I see your point

** Yes I have a console, I run a Hog 3

** I got too excited didn't read it through and the fact that it does not have a tilt feature makes it useless.

So basically, back at square one. Thanks for all the input everyone


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## len (Jul 5, 2009)

Deleted. Useless post.


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## Footer (Jul 5, 2009)

Bri said:


> Thanks guys, to respond to all of that here is a few responses.
> 
> **The Color Temperature may/may not be an issue.... but I see your point
> 
> ...



....You have a Hog III running pinspots?....

Please tell me you have something else hooked up to that...

I think the chauvet option is your best option. However, because you are dealing with pinspots... this might be an option. 

Meteor - Puppeteer

I know, its janky technology. I have never actually seen one used, and really never wanted to. The thought of something trying to tilt a S4 via the yoke always made me sick. However, your not dealing with much weight at all, this might be the solution. I think they sold for around 400. It looks like BMI pulled them from their catalog this year. Might be worth a call to Meteor. I have a feeling they might have a few hundred in a warehouse that they really want to get rid of. Either that, or they got sued because the thing was such a bad idea.


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## Bri (Jul 5, 2009)

yes I run other stuff with the Hog III! I do corporate event lighting.... the pinspots are just an annoying part of it haha. The puppeteer look ummm interesting? I think they are going to close this thread so again, thanks for all the feedback everyone. I will be sticking to the ol drive in a and focus method. Thanks!


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## NickJones (Jul 6, 2009)

A simple option like Chris meantioned would be IR Remote Motorized Panhead the chances are this would move your light, if hanging strait down, and a few modifications would need to be made to make sure it's safe. They cost $89 US. The problem with this situation is the IR remote might end up controling all of them, so you could use Full Range Pan & Tilt this one could be harder, as it is heavier and needs a controller, that costs more, this costs $144.99 US.
Nick


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## soundlight (Jul 6, 2009)

I remember a few years ago someone posted about using a wired pan/tilt control system for cameras to automate a bunch of front of house fixtures that were hard to get to. Can't remember the person or specifics now, but that could really work. There were a whole bunch of wired units that they just put up at the FOH position and hung something like S4 juniors on - so these were obviously for heavier cameras.

EDIT: Found the old thread 'cause I remembered who posted about it (SHARYNF): http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/4172-stupid-front-house-lights.html
(It's post 5)


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## Bri (Jul 7, 2009)

That might not be a horrible idea.... I'll check that out.. pretty clever!


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## NickJones (Jul 7, 2009)

Yeah, your major problems would be controlling them, and getting them safeley mounted onto whatever truss/pipes you have. If they are for camcorders chances are they would handle the weight, maybe get one or two and try them out.
Nick


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## MNBallet (Jul 7, 2009)

Well since you say you run other stuff from the board, I take it you would know about running DMX cable to all these "moving" pin spots then too. I would think it would be a major hassle to run DMX cable in the air over say 100 tables, but since you'd have to run power it might not be as big of a problem. Also, I would assume that since you have other DMX stuff you would also know of any fan noise moving lights produce. A noisy fan right over every table could spell a disaster in future job offers. Things like the Meteor Ellipscan have a very bad high pitch whine.


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## ship (Jul 8, 2009)

Bri said:


> ship, thanks for the information. I work for the hotel industry, we have no say in the table placement, decisions of rearrangement, etc. We try to have them hold off on chairs but they have a seperate schedule to adhere to, as do the clients that provide the centerpeices... nothing is ever as planned on paper.. that is mainly why I was looking for an alternative to driving our lift in to focus them, our ceilings are 28'( we also have specific areas we can hang in, therefore the pinspots are not directly above the tables), I'm short, usually the only one doing pinspots and don't have a ladder to accomodate...Currently I move chairs, drive in, re-focus, move chairs back, and hope they stay that way haha! Just thought I would throw the idea out there see if they existed. From the looks of things I will be doing the same ol thing  Thanks to everyone who answered. You all rock!
> 
> --Bri



Did a few hotels in the past also, higher ceilings and still the note of a stage brace works for refocus. That and noting the different schedules and off site center pieces, loved the really far out ones.

Still though on focus, hard to do short of some remote focus you could bring to each table for it's individual look, much less harder yet to get the management to understand the problem in even paying for units that would focus. Shure possibly cheap DJ grade moving mirror type fixtures would be optimum no doubt I think, but that's the challenge in them that pay the bill not seeing this problem you do.

Go for a moving head if not moving mirror cheap DJ light on the other hand, at your throw distance if it could save on labor needed to focus, might long term it get the fixtures. Go for long life lamps also at like 1,000 hours or more for the fixtures also so as to get maximum sales pitch.

Assuming you work in your set space a lot and know it, there is only so many positions to light from and or to put tables at so position for the fixtures shouldn't be as much a problem. I would say go for it in presentin your plan and pricing, go cheap and long term get better for doing it by brand one at a time. Cheap because it's a static position and while as selling point bling to them also moving about you don't need as much initial or sustained accuracy.


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## soundlight (Jul 8, 2009)

You might buy one of these little guys and see how intensity and beam size work out.

Irradiant Mini Move

Only issue would be the fan noise. If you can't deal with the fan, as you might not be able to in a banquet situation, don't even think about it.


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