# Bubbles. . .A fun effect? or a Death Trap!



## adude23 (Oct 29, 2008)

-What's your thoughts on these machines?
-Are there any rules/regulations on them where you live?
-Do you have any tips to make them safer?

Thanks,
~Adude~


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## derekleffew (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm guessing you're speaking of something like this?



The only consideration is a slippery floor when the bubbles condense.

The Altman BM, made entirely out of steel, weighed a ton, so rigging overhead was an issue, but I've never had an safety problems associated with bubble machine. At the risk of sounding old... "ah one and ah two-ah..."


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## Van (Oct 29, 2008)

I just used 4 count 'em 4 bubble machines in Eurydice. I'f I ever see another one I think I'll scream. And yes I had a hard time convincing the director and the Set designer that there would be slippage issues with bubble juice collecting on a high gloss polyurethanre finished floor, designed to be as slick as possible. 

"Won't the bubbles be dry by the time they hit the floor?" 
Yes I'm quoting.


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## adude23 (Oct 29, 2008)

"Won't the bubbles be dry by the time they hit the floor?" 
:shock:
People sometimes . . . .


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## Kelite (Oct 30, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> At the risk of sounding old... "ah one and ah two-ah..."





Ahhh- the best Lawrence imitation I've heard all week!

(Nice job Derek!)


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## gafftaper (Oct 30, 2008)

Yeah you've got to be REALLY careful where you shoot them. I used them in a show once. We only shot them briefly and we did it over the orchestra... which they found annoying but when they would be sitting down for a half hour. So by the time they stood up the floor actually was dry. Yes they are a death trap to walk on. If you have to use them in a space that is walked on then you need to deploy carpet for the safety of everyone.


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## Kelite (Oct 30, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> We only shot them briefly and we did it over the orchestra... which they found annoying but when they would be sitting down for a half hour. So by the time they stood up the floor actually was dry.




All high-pitched whining aside, if I were in the orchestra and had bubbles landing on my trumpet, viola, harp, _________ (fill in the blank), there would be an *uncomfortable technician following the show. Surely there must be a way to add this atmospheric effect without the nasty after-effects of soap. Perhaps blowing the bubbles between the audience and the orchestra onto a carpet wouldn't be so bad, as long as traffic was not moving along that portion of the venue.

There must be a sensible way to enhance the performance without the _'trouble of the bubble.'_


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## BillESC (Oct 30, 2008)

We use a Hot Air Bubble Machine. Basically it has a hair dryer inside the cage of wands. The bubbles do float longer but not long enough to completely dry...


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## Van (Oct 30, 2008)

BillESC said:


> We use a Hot Air Bubble Machine. Basically it has a hair dryer inside the cage of wands. The bubbles do float longer but not long enough to completely dry...


 
Oh yeah and that's the other thing, " we want the bubbles to rise...." Rise? You realize that soap is heavier than air? You realize that I was given no budget for helium for 8 weeks of run? You realize that I don't own a bubble machine that uses helium right ? 

" What do you mean? Bubbles float up..... sometimes....." :shock:


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## elite1trek (Oct 30, 2008)

I have only used a bubble machine once. It was a really cheap (probably Party City) unit. It served its purpose, but it did make a slippery mess on the marley (dancers werent too happy about that). As for regulations, I have never heard of any. I can't imagine that your local codes committee has nothing better to do, but that is politics .

As for making them safer, try to use the effect before an intermission or scene change, where you have enough time to (quickly) mop the stage. They also make textured tape (it comes in black) designed to keep people from slipping on wet stairs, which you could use on particularly hazardous places.



> Oh yeah and that's the other thing, " we want the bubbles to rise...." Rise? You realize that soap is heavier than air? You realize that I was given no budget for helium for 8 weeks of run? You realize that I don't own a bubble machine that uses helium right ?
> 
> " What do you mean? Bubbles float up..... sometimes....."



That's almost as bad as the time somebody asked me to make the confetti from my cannon fall slower...

In all seriousness though, you can make bubble float up if you use a couple of fans on low speed. You sometimes have to adjust the concentration of water and soap.


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## Logos (Oct 30, 2008)

I have a couple of real cheap plastic machines. They cost about $A20.00 and last me about 6 months at the kids parties and so on I do sometimes.
I once had someone ask if I could make bubbles fluorescent. I know you can buy fluorescent bubble mix but couldn't find any. Someone suggested we tried tonic water (which apparently fluoresces because of the Quinine) instead of water. Didn't work.
I once tried blowing smoke from a smoke machine through a bubble machine to see if I could get bubbles that would burst with a little puff of smoke. That didn't work either, although I still think it should. I probably haven't thought of something.
Bubble goo on the floor especially in dance shows is a real menace.


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## Ric (Oct 30, 2008)

We've a hard & fast rule.
NO BUBBLES.
The issues related to using them, the mess & safety concerns over slippery floors are just not worth the trouble of having one for the effect.


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## BillESC (Oct 30, 2008)

" What do you mean? Bubbles float up..... sometimes....." 
__________________
No, but they do fall slower. Simple physics.


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## ruinexplorer (Oct 31, 2008)

Logos said:


> I have a couple of real cheap plastic machines. They cost about $A20.00 and last me about 6 months at the kids parties and so on I do sometimes.
> I once had someone ask if I could make bubbles fluorescent. I know you can buy fluorescent bubble mix but couldn't find any. Someone suggested we tried tonic water (which apparently fluoresces because of the Quinine) instead of water. Didn't work.



I think WildFire has a fluorescent additive for water that might help you on this.


Logos said:


> I once tried blowing smoke from a smoke machine through a bubble machine to see if I could get bubbles that would burst with a little puff of smoke. That didn't work either, although I still think it should. I probably haven't thought of something.



There's party versions of this out this Halloween. Might want to watch for the sales in a couple days. Here's one at Amazon, but I've seen them cheaper at Wally Mart.


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## GreyWyvern (Oct 31, 2008)

I can deal with bubble machines, those aren't so bad. What is bad are snow machines. The fluid is more soap concentrated than bubble fluid, which makes it much more slippery than bubbles. It is harder to clean up when spilled. The residue from it is much worse. And when it is done being slippery after having dried, it is just plain sticky. It is really kinda gross stuff.

Ice floors are tricky enough to walk on normally and when they are covered with "snow", you are likely to badly hurt, if not kill, yourself. Silly board op thought if was funny to "test" the snow machines again when I was loading the pyro on the front of the set. [size=-2]JERK![/size]


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## gafftaper (Oct 31, 2008)

Wildfire does make a fluorescent water dye. However from what I saw in one of the water curtain devices at LDI it appears to stain things it lands on... so I would be VERY careful where I used it. Definitely not in bubbles unless there was no one walking under them and the area could be easily cleaned really well. 

I think Wildfire intends the fluorescent water dye for use in fountains and other self contained water features only.


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## Van (Oct 31, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Wildfire does make a fluorescent water dye. However from what I saw in one of the water curtain devices at LDI it appears to stain things it lands on... so I would be VERY careful where I used it. Definitely not in bubbles unless there was no one walking under them and the area could be easily cleaned really well.
> 
> I think Wildfire intends the fluorescent water dye for use in fountains and other self contained water features only.


 
and water cooled PC's


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## cdub260 (Oct 31, 2008)

We did a bubble effect for our 2006 season, filling the amphitheatre with bubbles. We used 12 CITC Bubblemax machines in conjunction with 6 CITC Hurricane 5000 fans, which they no longer make. Some nights the effect worked beautifully. Other nights, the wind just blew the bubbles out of the bowl. We had no issues with slippery surfaces except for the trusses the bubble machines were mounted on. With the bubble machines installed 20 to 25 ft. up their respective trusses and their corresponding fans forcing the bubbles even higher most of the bubbles never even hit the ground before they dried out. One night in particular, the effect worked really well staying in the air for a good 15 minutes in a slowly swirling vortex above the bowl. That night the air was hot, muggy and still; not exactly ideal conditions for comfort, but perfect for a bubble effect.

The biggest issue for us with the bubble effect was the damage the bubbles did to the Hurricane 5000 fans when they ended up getting sucked into the air intakes. Repositioning the fans prevented further instances of failure, but I ended up replacing the Power Control Modules on all six fans, though only three were actually damaged. The other truly "fun" issue was cleaning the bubble machines at the end of our run. All of them had 1/2 in. of sludge in the bottom of the bubble reservoirs. If I remember correctly, I think it took me two days to clean all the machines.

Overall, I would say that bubbles can be a good effect for a large, outdoor venue like mine, though I imagine they could work equally well in a large indoor setting. In a smaller space I would probably steer clear of bubbles for the reasons mentioned by others.


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## Van (Oct 31, 2008)

OMG ! Ok Sorry to keep ranting about this last show..... BUT..... I pulled the projector down the other day, I'm loaning my CD tray remote douser to a colleague, I get the projector down to floor level and it's covered in spots! Yes bubble soap spots all over it! All over the Lens! The Bubble machines weren't even supposed to be near it ! and it's covered ! Am I using too many Exclaimation marks ????!?!?!?!


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## mbandgeek (Oct 31, 2008)

GreyWyvern said:


> I can deal with bubble machines, those aren't so bad. What is bad are snow machines. The fluid is more soap concentrated than bubble fluid, which makes it much more slippery than bubbles. It is harder to clean up when spilled. The residue from it is much worse. And when it is done being slippery after having dried, it is just plain sticky. It is really kinda gross stuff.
> 
> Ice floors are tricky enough to walk on normally and when they are covered with "snow", you are likely to badly hurt, if not kill, yourself. Silly board op thought if was funny to "test" the snow machines again when I was loading the pyro on the front of the set. [size=-2]JERK![/size]



Yeah we had snow machines for a show this summer. They didn't make that much of a mess. There was only a slight residue on stage. 

With our placement, we couldn't get the snow to shoot far enough to where it would hit the stage. There is carpet on the floor in front of the apron. We tried high velocity fans. Thinking back, I think we should have mounted it on above the stage using carefully concealed fans to blow it downstage.... oh well.

they were also really loud and sounded like a couple of shop-vacs.

Overall, good effect.

It was kinda entertaining seeing the first 3 rows of the audience covered in fake snow.


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## adude23 (Nov 1, 2008)

We've used snow in the past, but stick to one main rule . . .
-"Snow can only be used before and interval or at the end of a production."
(Same can be used for bubble machines)
This then allows a good 'clean-up time' and doesn't mean we have to go mopping in the dark between changes. If you stick by that rule it always works (well has done for us)
Just my two cents on this


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## TimMiller (Nov 7, 2008)

As far as snow, you are better off using a good snow machine that allows you to control the flake size. The smaller the better. Big globs take longer to evaporate. I also use a "dry" formula, that evaporates almost immediately and does not leave any slippery residue. I used 2 of them 15' over a dance floor without any problems.


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## porkchop (Nov 7, 2008)

Wow this is a lot of talk about soap. I think it all boils down to what people in the exposed area are expecting and what kind of cleanup is needs to be done.

My experiance with soap bases special F/X machines (bubble and snow) is completely in a venue that has a huge (80' x 200' x 3" preferably) chunk of ice for a performance floor. And yes the addition of soap makes the ice even more slick, but the skaters know what they're getting into, and when crew have to walk across it, if theres soap still that means it's usually after an act and then the ice is a bit tore up so even with soap a show cut is more of a slipping hazard. So in this case even though you had as many as 70 people that might go across the slick soapy mess it was a known risk, and no more so than walking across the ice before the show started.

Clean up in one way or another always ends in all the ice the might be soap contaminated being removed by standard practice not because of the soap itself so that wasn't a problem either.

So in the end it worked out fine for this show even though on an average week they went through 3 big bottles of bubble mix and something like 6 big bottles of snow mix. That being said if I even thought of putting that much soap down on any of the non-ice rink venues I've worked at I think I would be flogged and the existence of my employment would be denied.


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## elite1trek (Nov 7, 2008)

Van said:


> and water cooled PC's




Very Much So...


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