# Seamed "cyc" versus seamless "cyc"



## JLNorthGA (Dec 12, 2013)

To start - it is really not a "cyc". It is a drop that is going to be behind a scrim.

Anyway - we are getting a black scrim per a number of your recommendations.

Priced the seamless: $1140
Priced the seamed: $600

We are "frugal" and we don't have a lot of spare $. This is grant money.
The quotes are for a muslin drop that is 17' 6" high and 38" W with a "pipe hem" on the bottom, 2" flat hems on the sides and top w/ webbing, grommets and ties 12" on center.

If we get the seamed drop, the seam will be at about 10'. Our proscenium opening is 16' H and we use the main drape as a top border down to about 14' 6" or so.

I would like the seamless - but the thought of saving $540 has a lot of appeal. I could use the savings to put instant water heaters in one of the dressing rooms - which have had cold water forever.

Thoughts? Remember actors are people too.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 12, 2013)

Tough decision. I have specified Rosco or Gerriets sky drops for quite a few years - believe they are more rugged and permanently flame retardant (avoid retreating every 5 years) and are inherently seamless. I'd sure think that seamless would pay off in versatility and appearance over it's life but when choosing between hot water and seamless - maybe seamed is not so bad. Through college I didn't know better and used only seamed - so a lot of it is expectations.


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## FatherMurphy (Dec 12, 2013)

Would this drop always be used only as a bounce behind the scrim, or would you ever be using it by itself as a white cyc/sky drop? With seamed cycs, depending on the fabric used, sometimes the seam allowance fabric reflects some of the light coming through the drop, making a bright line across the drop, or the seam itself doesn't pull quite flat, leaving a permanent wrinkle for some or all of the width. If it's always a bounce, the scrim will reduce both of those problems, if it's used by itself, the problems will be front and center.

If seamed would be ok for you, have you thought about sewing your own? Two lengths of 108" muslin would get you your 17' height, and might be cheaper yet than from a custom shop, although Bill's FR treatment concern is a valid point.


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## JLNorthGA (Dec 12, 2013)

FatherMurphy said:


> Would this drop always be used only as a bounce behind the scrim, or would you ever be using it by itself as a white cyc/sky drop? With seamed cycs, depending on the fabric used, sometimes the seam allowance fabric reflects some of the light coming through the drop, making a bright line across the drop, or the seam itself doesn't pull quite flat, leaving a permanent wrinkle for some or all of the width. If it's always a bounce, the scrim will reduce both of those problems, if it's used by itself, the problems will be front and center.
> 
> If seamed would be ok for you, have you thought about sewing your own? Two lengths of 108" muslin would get you your 17' height, and might be cheaper yet than from a custom shop, although Bill's FR treatment concern is a valid point.



Our seamstresses, while proficient enough with clothing and small stuff might not have the skill sets for doing a 38' x 17' 6" piece of fabric. I could ask at IOI (a local industry that does industrial sewing) to find out how much they charge. They sewed a decent border for our mid stage electric.

I hadn't really thought about the seam being a focal point. It would mostly used as a bounce behind the scrim. How about vertical seams and painting it?

The biggest "sticking" point in this is spending $1200 for a seamless drop. You have mentioned several cogent arguments against a seamed drop. Does anyone know of a less expensive source?


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## kicknargel (Dec 13, 2013)

In my opinion, given your budget situation, I'd go with the seam. I think audiences will quickly forget about it. I would consider having it made from poly mus or poly cyc (I'm not sure that there's an actual difference) from Rosebrand, because it's inherently flame retardant and a little easier to stretch tight.


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## FatherMurphy (Dec 13, 2013)

A drop painted white vs a white fabric drop will work equally well as a bounce. Only problems with a painted drop are the normal stuff you get into sizing a new painted drop, and the possibility of creases in the paint next time you use it. A white fabric drop wouldn't need to be sized (most likely), and wrinkles from being folded up on a storage shelf will hang out quickly.

The thicker the fabric, the less likely the seam reflection will be seen, although that will drive up the cost of the fabric somewhat. I think horizontal seams are more common than vertical because the weight of the bottom pipe helps pull the seam flat, whereas you don't have the same tension being applied to a vertical seam without extra rigging. Again, if the drop is always behind a scrim, the scrim will make if a lot harder to see any problems with the bounce. How much you can get away with depends a lot on how and where you're using it, and how close the audience is.

Sewing a drop isn't particularly hard, it's mostly a matter of handling the bulk of the fabric, and not getting bored 40' into a single stitchline. I used to sew the occasional drop for the community theater I was working at, I had a 2'x8' shop table that I cut a recess into so that the sewing machine matched the rest of the rest of the table's height. The 8' width of the table was usually enough to support the fabric and keep it flat in the machine (scrolling up the front of the table,and down the back), and if not, I'd just drag up another table. Straight lines are both easy to do, and tricky at the same time - easy because they're straight and simple, but tricky because any variation from straight shows up like a sore thumb. It helps if you've got room in your shop to get set up and leave it for a few days. It also helped me that I'd previously worked in a costume shop for three or four years as a cutter/draper/stitcher.


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## JChenault (Dec 13, 2013)

I think the real question is what are you going to do with the cyc? 
I'm assuming you plan to leave it white so that you can light it in various colors as opposed to painting it for show to show. ( if you are going to paint it, seamed is probably fine ).

If you pick seamed:
You cannot light if from the back - you will have a shadow from the seam. Now it is unlikely you will want to light from the back, but it is possible.
If you do a show where the cyc is always lit ( so you would take down the black scrim so the cyc would be brighter) you will have a horizontal line in that vast expanse of color.
In any event, you will have a change in the look of the drop at the horizontal seam. Typically a dark / bright line. 

If you are investing in a long term piece of equipment for your theatre, I would go with the seamless. If this is for a couple of shows, the seamed might make more sense.

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## venuetech (Dec 15, 2013)

I would say for the long term go seamless.


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## kicknargel (Dec 16, 2013)

BTW, I agree with Father Murphy that stitching drops in-house is pretty easy. In fact, it was the first stitching project I ever did, and my first one came out fine. The backside of the hems aren't as nice as what you'd get from an outside vendor, but who cares. I can do one in 5-6 hours. 

That said, Rosebrand and Gerriets (and others, probably) charge very reasonable rates for custom sewing, and in recent years I've just let them do it.


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## csilvia9 (Feb 3, 2014)

kicknargel said:


> BTW, I agree with Father Murphy that stitching drops in-house is pretty easy. In fact, it was the first stitching project I ever did, and my first one came out fine. The backside of the hems aren't as nice as what you'd get from an outside vendor, but who cares. I can do one in 5-6 hours.
> 
> That said, Rosebrand and Gerriets (and others, probably) charge very reasonable rates for custom sewing, and in recent years I've just let them do it.



I have sewn drops too. The biggest challenge is the weight of the fabric. It helps to have someone to help guide it along. Also a walking foot for your machine makes a world of difference. It's worth the $30 or so to get one, and makes sure your feeding your fabric evenly top and bottom. Another problem is most machines are kinda tight in the sewing arm, unless you have an industrial machine. I usually take the time to roll up the drop fabric as neat as possible to pass it through the machine.


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## JLNorthGA (Feb 7, 2014)

I ended up getting a seamless cyc. Got it from Georgia Stage.


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