# New ETC Fixtures (Including ETC FRESNEL)



## soundlight (Apr 7, 2011)

Just got a marketing email from ETC with the new lineup that includes a FRESNEL! Something that we've been waiting for now for a while.

They also finally officially released the Desire LED fixtures (which were previewed last month at USITT).

Thirdly they now have an outdoor-rated S4 (but I feel like I've seen something about that before).

Here's the website with the new fixtures: ETC Desire, Source Four Fresnel and Source Four XT - New ETC Lighting Fixtures


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## derekleffew (Apr 7, 2011)

Holy ****!:shock:

Why didn't I get this email? <EDIT: Nevermind, it just came.>

David Hilton better have a Source Four Fresnel with him when I see him here next week!


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## soundlight (Apr 7, 2011)

I really like the fact that the yoke can move so that I can change the center of gravity when putting a scroller on the front of it. That's a nice feature. And the bottom-loading lamp is awesome as well. Don't need to mess up barndoor cuts when changing the lamp! And it's got a nice big handle on the back for focusing.


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 7, 2011)

Argh you beat me to it by a minute! 
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/23983-etc-releases-fresnel.html


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## Pie4Weebl (Apr 7, 2011)

This is very exciting!!!


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## soundlight (Apr 7, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Argh you beat me to it by a minute!
> http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/23983-etc-releases-fresnel.html



Yes, that I did. I figured that I was racing other members from the second that the email hit my inbox to the first thread posting.

I won.

Pretty freakin' awesome fixture, though! It does also seem like the first road-worthy fresnel since it has a lamp change underneath (lens won't fall open on a meatrack), focus control is a knob that won't get knocked or loosened (rear slide lever and slide bottom focus respectively) and it's got an HPL lamp which means if you have S4s and S4 PARs you won't have to carry any other lamps.


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## xander (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm excited (though not surprised) that ETC listened to us, the users, and put power thru on the Desire fixtures! Now they just need to update the rest of the Selador line with that feature and I wont have anything bad to say about them! Except for price. 

The fresnel is pretty freakin' awesome. 

-Tim


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## gafftaper (Apr 7, 2011)

First thing I did was check the date... nope it's not April 1st. Looking forward to checking it out.


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## erosing (Apr 7, 2011)

I can't wait to see how they handled the reflector.


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## SteveB (Apr 7, 2011)

Before everybody gets all hot and bothered, consider that the scanty info. on the web shows a zoom range of 20 to 65 degrees. That seemed to me to not be a real tight beam when zoomed in as compared to a Strand/Selecon Acclaim with a range of 6 to 64 degrees beam angle, or the Altman 1KAF with similar range to the Acclaim. 

So maybe not as useful as we all want it to be, but with no spec sheet out there yet....


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## derekleffew (Apr 7, 2011)

Tsk, tsk, SteveB. http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs...001_Source_Four_Fresnel_SpecSht_PRELIM_vA.pdf

Beam Angle: 9-52°
Field Angle: 20-65°

Also, has 7" lens, so should let more lumens through than a 6" Fresnel. Now, I wonder if they're working on an oval beam version? I wonder if I could put a MFL S4-PAR lens in it?

EDIT:
According to my calculations, the fixture falls right in between a 1K 6"FS and a 2K 8"FS:

But SteveB, you're correct--the S4-Fres does not go as narrow, or as wide, as a Strand 6"FS.

Questions for ETC:
1. Is there an integral safety attachment point?
2. Does the lamp access door have a cut-off switch?


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## jonliles (Apr 7, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Holy ****!:shock:



+1 WOOOHOOO ... Can't wait to see them in action


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 7, 2011)

Does this mean the Fresnel is relevant again? 






(Oh, and before people get jumpy, I'M JOKING)


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## DaveySimps (Apr 7, 2011)

Of course this would come out 6 months after I purchased 30 new fresnel. It is well over due. 

~Dave


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## TheLightmaster (Apr 7, 2011)

(On the fresnel)
Am I dreaming..?

I found the PARnels at my church disappointing. Always wondered why they didn't make a fresnel before.

(I wonder who I can convince to buy some?!)


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## DuckJordan (Apr 7, 2011)

Does any one know the MSRP on one of these fixtures (I want to get a budget plan in order).


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## SteveB (Apr 7, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> Tsk, tsk, SteveB. http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs...001_Source_Four_Fresnel_SpecSht_PRELIM_vA.pdf
> 
> Beam Angle: 9-52°
> Field Angle: 20-65°
> ...



Tsk nothing. When I went looking, early this AM, I could not find anything other then the basic web link. Hmmm.... and I did cover my bases by stating "scanty info." for what was available at the time I looked. So recall your Tsks (Grin) though perhaps I missed it when searching. What I get for doing this with a show on.


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## derekleffew (Apr 7, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Does any one know the MSRP on one of these fixtures (I want to get a budget plan in order).


I suspect pricing won't be available until just before the fixture starts shipping in June or July. Though the website does say 

> You can finally replace your old Fresnels with an *affordable* fixture designed for now.


(Emphasis mine.)

FWIW, MSRP for an Altman 65Q is $169. Selecon Acclaim is ~$274. Leviton 1K Fresnel is $320. I'd bet the S4-Fresnel will be between those. List price for an S4-ParNel is $300.


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## avkid (Apr 7, 2011)

I hope this results in the market being flooded with used ParNels.


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 7, 2011)

The other point is that there is now a replacement (well, sure there was the 7" Selecon, but this is 'Merica, and we love our HPL's) for the 1K 8" Fresnel (75Q).


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## Footer (Apr 7, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> The other point is that there is now a replacement (well, sure there was the 7" Selecon, but this is 'Merica, and we love our HPL's) for the 1K 8" Fresnel (75Q).


 
As long as this thing actually has an even field. They said that with the parnel too. I will be interested to see what they are doing to get that type of light out of the HPL. So, ETC types, is the parnel going to stay around?

Added to that, when are we going to see ETC have something to combat this: 




or this:


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## SteveB (Apr 7, 2011)

As a thread hi-jack, I'd love to see them fit a Desire in a Revolution yoke. Maybe put the ParNel lens in front and motorize it !. Sell it for $1600 or so.....


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## derekleffew (Apr 7, 2011)

SteveB said:


> As a thread hi-jack, I'd love to see them fit a Desire in a Revolution yoke. Maybe put the ParNel lens in front and motorize it ! ...


THAT was uncalled for, mister. (But since you opened the door, why not control it with an original MicroVision and name it Irideon?)


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## JWilsonLX (Apr 7, 2011)

Footer said:


> Added to that, when are we going to see ETC have something to combat this:
> 
> ...


 
The stock response at the USITT student session for LED ellipsoidal questions was "ETC is always working on new and exciting technology." Heard that about 10 times.


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## chausman (Apr 7, 2011)

As far as the Desire LED goes, the picture shows a gel frame on it. Why would you want to put gels on the LED? Isn't one of the main ideas of LED lights, that you DON'T need to use as many gels/not have to change gels.


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## dvsDave (Apr 7, 2011)

Not Color Gels, but Diffusers. Check out this article to see how GM used Diffusers from Apollo to great effect with LED fixtures.


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## xander (Apr 7, 2011)

dvsDave said:


> Not Color Gels, but Diffusers. Check out this article to see how GM used Diffusers from Apollo to great effect with LED fixtures.


 
On top of that you also have to realize the the body is the exact same thing across the line. So, the Desire Studio (just white LEDs) is going to need the gel slot.


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## chausman (Apr 7, 2011)

dvsDave said:


> Not Color Gels, but Diffusers. Check out this article to see how GM used Diffusers from Apollo to great effect with LED fixtures.


 

xander said:


> On top of that you also have to realize the the body is the exact same thing across the line. So, the Desire Studio (just white LEDs) is going to need the gel slot.


 
Thanks. Thats what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure if the diffusers would work the same way on an LED.

And, I din't know that they were making a white only light. I knew that they had one meant for clear white light, but I didn't know it was ONLY white.


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## Footer (Apr 7, 2011)

dvsDave said:


> Not Color Gels, but Diffusers. Check out this article to see how GM used Diffusers from Apollo to great effect with LED fixtures.


 
....and top hats, barn doors, color correction, animation wheel.... Being a person that has gaffed color correction to the front of more then one moving light I believe everything needs a gel slot.


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## jmabray (Apr 7, 2011)

Just as an FYI - The Fresnel Fixture is $395.00 list.


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## chausman (Apr 7, 2011)

jmabray said:


> Just as an FYI Fixture is $395.00 list.


 
Which one?


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## viking33 (Apr 7, 2011)

I saw an add for these yesterday in Lighting & Sound International. Don't know why it didn't strike me as odd.


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## xander (Apr 7, 2011)

chausman said:


> Which one?


 I would assume the fresnel. That's an expensive fresnel, but the other two new products couldn't possibly be that low. Mind you, noone in their right mind pays MSRP so I'm guessing they will be closer to $300. Still on the expensive side, but if it performs, only having to stock one lamp is appealing.


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## Footer (Apr 7, 2011)

xander said:


> I would assume the fresnel. That's an expensive fresnel, but the other two new products couldn't possibly be that low. Mind you, noone in their right mind pays MSRP so I'm guessing they will be closer to $300. Still on the expensive side, but if it performs, only having to stock one lamp is appealing.


 
With a BVV running at around 40 bucks... ya, it is.


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## jglodeklights (Apr 7, 2011)

More expensive? Yes. More advanced, also a yes. As others have said, being able to change a lamp without altering the unit's focus, or attaching a scroller and being able to properly balance it on the unit are MAJOR time saving features (Even the excellent locking mechanism on a S4's tilt is subject to dropping focus or being harder to focus when the unit as a whole is out of balance). Additionally, during the primary focus being able to set the beam angle and go, rather than fiddling with it, or having to get a wrench on it to fully lock or unlock makes a big difference. And those Effers get friggin hot, especially 750 watt units! Oh, and price savings by only having to order HPL's in bulk? Sweet! I'm currently specing out and getting bids on units to replace our end of life package of Altman Shakespeares and StarPARs. A fresnel unit that isn't a PITA to work with would save time and money for our in house producing company, and time and money for our renters. 

The only concern I have is that I haven't seen, yet, a barn door with lockable doors. Anyone know of one?


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## masterelectrician2112 (Apr 7, 2011)

JWilsonLX said:


> The stock response at the USITT student session for LED ellipsoidal questions was "ETC is always working on new and exciting technology." Heard that about 10 times.



Yes, starksk was sounding like a broken record player!


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## gafftaper (Apr 8, 2011)

xander said:


> I would assume the fresnel. That's an expensive fresnel, but the other two new products couldn't possibly be that low. Mind you, noone in their right mind pays MSRP so I'm guessing they will be closer to $300. Still on the expensive side, but if it performs, only having to stock one lamp is appealing.


 
If you want a quality fresnel that's a price right in the sweet spot. $399 means street price around $300-$350 depending on the usual factors. The Selecon 6" is $334 and the 7" is $411 (on Production Advantage). The old Strand Fresnels cost even more than that. Yeah you can get a crappy Altman for $150 but you get what you pay for.


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## Lotos (Apr 8, 2011)

gafftaper said:


> If you want a quality fresnel that's a price right in the sweet spot. $399 means street price around $300-$350 depending on the usual factors. The Selecon 6" is $334 and the 7" is $411 (on Production Advantage). The old Strand Fresnels cost even more than that. Yeah you can get a crappy Altman for $150 but you get what you pay for.


 
Well, sure... But "you get what you pay for" has different meaning to different folk...
You could go out and play soccer with a 65Q, and then hang it... You wouldn't want to do that with an Acclaim


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## shiben (Apr 8, 2011)

Lotos said:


> Well, sure... But "you get what you pay for" has different meaning to different folk...
> You could go out and play soccer with a 65Q, and then hang it... You wouldn't want to do that with an Acclaim


 
This is totally not the case. Good luck hanging anything with the broken foot you will have.


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## Les (Apr 8, 2011)

Lotos said:


> Well, sure... But "you get what you pay for" has different meaning to different folk...
> You could go out and play soccer with a 65Q, and then hang it... You wouldn't want to do that with an Acclaim


 
This is a really terrible idea. The 65Q's balance and shape are completely inefficient when it comes to soccer games. Now hockey, on the other hand... I'll bet it would slide on ice very nicely. 

I don't think Gafftaper was taking a stab at the overall quality of Altman's base-level fresnel. I think it's more of a 'features' thing. Street price of an Altman 65Q is in all actuality around $100, and for that you get something that produces plenty of controllable light, but you have to deal with a wingnut on the bottom for focusing and a hinged front door that may or may not disrupt your barndoors and other accessories. You also lose the fourth clip, meaning you could have a wayward front-end accessory if the fixture is focused straight down -- this, I believe, is one of the worst things about the light. Everything else, I could live with. I usually keep my fresnels on one setting since they are generally used as toplight in my designs. Now, Altman's 1KAF fresnel - don't even get me started. What an awful focusing mechanism. I'd take 65Q's over that anyday, honestly. 

On to ETC's light -- interestingly the counterbalance yoke design is nothing new. I'm going to have a hard time backing this up, since the company is out of business, but Packaged Lighting Systems actually used a similar design on many of their fresnels and ellipsoidals. I believe it was a milled piece of aluminum with a slot down the middle, which allowed the yoke to be slid forward and backward, changing the overall balance of the fixture. They also had these "pole focusing" lights which had some sort of a eye-bolt looking thing on the bottom. Apparently, you could use a special pole to focus the fixtures from the ground. Of course, this was totally dependent on the fixture being hung more or less horizontal which is only useful half the time when you're dealing with overhead lighting on stage. 

I'm looking forward to testing out ETC's lamp changing mechanism. It appears that it could be a bayonet-style system, requiring a quarter-turn or so to get the socket out. Hopefully this doesn't seize up like the mechanism on the Strand SL. I'm sure ETC has tested it extensively, and in many different conditions, so I doubt it will be a problem.

Other than that, they have used a dichroic reflector which will be interesting to see. I'm assuming the lens is just a standard fresnel lens. I'm surprised - seems like they would have come up with some radical, new hi-def, ultra-hip fresnel wave lens or something. 

Now, ETC, make us a true, HPL CYC light, or make us some stripped lenses for the multipars


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## gafftapegreenia (Apr 8, 2011)

Ahh, Les, so many good points. I HATE those 1KAF Fresnels, now that I can lamp a 65Q @ 575w, who needs em? The 65Q has got to be one of Altman's most profitable fixtures. Someone (if not Altman) will be making that thing till the end of the electrical grid. 

Also, thanks for reminding me of Packaged Lighting Systems. I was trying to remember there name, as their website was still offering stepped lens ellipsoidals. Seems even the old website is gone now. 


Les said:


> Now, ETC, make us a true, HPL CYC light, or make us some stripped lenses for the multipars


 
Ala a 50 Degree Spreader Rondel? If ETC won't, all we need is someone good with optics to design it, and then have Kopp Glass make it (Who wants to invest in a start up?)


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## nffy212 (Apr 8, 2011)

Production Advantage now has them listed on their site for $299

ETC Fres7 Source Four 7" Fresnel


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## Les (Apr 8, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Ala a 50 Degree Spreader Rondel? If ETC won't, all we need is someone good with optics to design it, and then have Kopp Glass make it (Who wants to invest in a start up?)



Exactly. A spreader roundel, when installed in a S4 par or Multipar, would open up so many possibilities, I think. A rotatable, 50 degree spread. How 'bout it? Kopp Glass, I believe, does custom jobs but I'll bet it would be 'spensive given the price for just a 5 5/8 plain roundel these days. 

PLS was an interesting company. They had some neat ideas and affordable equipment, there just didn't seem to be much demand. They began selling on eBay (to some success) before shutting their doors a few years ago. I think the company only employed a handful (the fixtures seemed simple, and were probably manufactured on basic metalworking equipment) and I think the company only made about $80,000 - $100,000 a year. Interesting trivia is that it was woman-owned. Their stepped lens ellipsoidals were interesting - like they waited for Century's patents to run out and then started manufacturing to the same design. Truly a blast from the past! 
Seems that they had 3.5" ellipsoidals on eBay for about $45 each, though they were no more fancy than a rolled steel tube in design. One buyer's feedback I remember said something like "great price and much better quality than expected!". I bought one of their 3" $35 fresnels out of curiosity and while unique in design, I could see how it would be useful. Used a mini-can lamp up to 100w and didn't have the most even beam. The main drawback was an odd socket only held in place with some sort of aluminum shim. Seems that a standard mini-can socket with tabs for screws would have been better. Otherwise, sturdy little fixture; just needed a little improvement. 

Sorry for the hijack... Back on topic!


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## church (Apr 8, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Ahh, Les, so many good points. I HATE those 1KAF Fresnels, now that I can lamp a 65Q @ 575w, who needs em? The 65Q has got to be one of Altman's most profitable fixtures. Someone (if not Altman) will be making that thing till the end of the electrical grid.
> 
> Also, thanks for reminding me of Packaged Lighting Systems. I was trying to remember there name, as their website was still offering stepped lens ellipsoidals. Seems even the old website is gone now.
> 
> ...


 
you need the CODE V software and the optical engineer ( I think the S4 was designed using this software.

Optical Research Associates | CODE V Optical Design Software | Product page

we use it for all our optical design


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## Lotos (Apr 8, 2011)

Les said:


> On to ETC's light -- interestingly the counterbalance yoke design is nothing new. I'm going to have a hard time backing this up, since the company is out of business, but Packaged Lighting Systems actually used a similar design on many of their fresnels and ellipsoidals. I believe it was a milled piece of aluminum with a slot down the middle, which allowed the yoke to be slid forward and backward, changing the overall balance of the fixture.


 
You'll find this on 1990's vintage Strand Lekolite 2206 Zoom's as well... They're honkin' great square monsters, the shutters fall out, the zoom is chunky, and they take up more room than a Berkey Colortran 5/50 on the Meat Rack... But hey, they balance nicely


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## derekleffew (Apr 8, 2011)

Les said:


> ...They also had these "pole focusing" lights which had some sort of a eye-bolt looking thing on the bottom. ...


 Pole focusing Fresnels is nothing new or unique. Strand, Colortran, and the studio manufacturers Mole, Desisti, B&M, Arri all made or make them. Charc even found one by Strand in his HS, I think, but I can't find the thread. There was a different socket for pan, tilt, and focus. The problem is the length of the pole was limited to about 15'.

As for Packaged Lighting Systems, a while ago I sent ship a couple of their catalogs from the mid-60's. Eventually he will get them scanned, PDF'ed, and posted.


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## techieman33 (Apr 9, 2011)

Lotos said:


> You'll find this on 1990's vintage Strand Lekolite 2206 Zoom's as well... They're honkin' great square monsters, the shutters fall out, the zoom is chunky, and they take up more room than a Berkey Colortran 5/50 on the Meat Rack... But hey, they balance nicely


 
I like my 2206's. There is still nothing on the market with the range they have. Yeah they're big but that doesn't really matter when they stay on one of the front of house lighting bridges year round. The shutters are designed to come out, you'll notice the handle is angled, so you can flip the shutter to help you get the shutter cut you want. This was still pre rotating barrels and a feature I like. Ours zoom pretty smoothly, you just have to take care of the guides the lenses ride on.


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## gcpsoundlight (Apr 9, 2011)

a guy from a local supplier came to class yesterday and showed us a "Selecon SPX" which he said was selecons equivilent to the source4, and that in blind tests it came out better on beam quality. so we pulled out our source4's, and the source4's, in my opinion, won. It also looked horrible.


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## jglodeklights (Apr 9, 2011)

Well, it would really depend on what lens tubes we are comparing it to. I've worked with REVisions C and F (and I think a few G's, they are the newest, yes?) primarily of the S4 36degree, and quite frankly all of them suck. Very high aberrations and very high distortion and an edge that never really gets that crisp. Compared to my Altman Shakespeare S6 40 degrees, when properly cleaned, the S4 36 is marginally brighter, but doesn't have the crispness the Shakespeare has. Additionally, Shakespeare 20 degrees are as sharp as and lower on the aberrations than S4 19's I've seen. YUCK


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## techieman33 (Apr 9, 2011)

gcpsoundlight said:


> a guy from a local supplier came to class yesterday and showed us a "Selecon SPX" which he said was selecons equivilent to the source4, and that in blind tests it came out better on beam quality. so we pulled out our source4's, and the source4's, in my opinion, won. It also looked horrible.


 
The selecon units kick the source 4's ass, they're more expensive than a source 4 too.


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## LXPlot (Apr 10, 2011)

I don't know. I saw some demo video of the new Selecon Lekos, and they really didn't seem to beat Source Fours in beam quality and definitely not in intensity. However, they seem to be just as good if not better in ease of hang and focus, and the scale for shutters on the side is nice. However, they aren't even close to as pretty or well marketed as Source Fours, so...


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## soundlight (Apr 10, 2011)

The new LEKO LITE won't beat the Source Fours (I know that because we had a demo of the new LEKO LITE in our shop, it's just a rebranded Strand SL Coolbeam with a different lamp). However, the SPX truly has some potential, and I'd like to see it. It is more expensive, but I think that it could be a good fixture as far as beam quality and ease of use. (Not that I'll ever stray from my beloved Source Fours...)


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## gcpsoundlight (Apr 11, 2011)

yeah. I mean, I did have some pro's with the selecon, but I love source4's, and everyone has them. these have only been out for a few months, whereas the source4 has been around for years. i dunno, just personal preference, I guess.

Though I absolutely will never use the Selecon Pacifics..... (Don't get me started! )


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## icewolf08 (Apr 11, 2011)

The Desire LED fixtures list around $1800. Apparently this is mostly due to paying for patent usage. They are pretty slick, especially the on-board mode that allows them to mimic the amber-drift of a 1Kw PAR as it dims and the mode that makes it mimic the filament ramp when bumped on or off. Useful? Maybe not all the time, but cool.


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## chausman (Apr 11, 2011)

icewolf08 said:


> They are pretty slick, especially the on-board mode that allows them to mimic the amber drift of a 1Kw PAR as it dims and the mode that makes it mimic the filament ramp when bumped on or off. Useful? Maybe not all the time, but cool.


 
Cool, and could be useful when you have only a few Desires and a rig of pars that you wanted things to be consistent, although, one of the benefits of the LEDS is that they can change instantly and not have the slower ramp up and down. Lightning for instance.


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## Blackfaer (Apr 20, 2011)

So it looks like the new S4 Fresnel is $299 typical street price, and the Parnel sells on the same sites at around $238. So is that a big enough difference? Or is the Parnel going to be fading away?

Whoever said they were surprised to see a standard Fresnel instead of some fancy new lens... apparently hasn't seen the PARnel lenses... or isn't aware of what happened when they DID enter into the Fresnel market with some fancy new lens.... 

Has anyone with experience with the Acclaim or Rama Fresnels gotten their hands on a S4 Fresnel? I'm curious... the Acclaim is 1/2 the price of a S4, and the Rama, which would be more the competition, is about 8% cheaper... 

I have no Fresnels in my inventory. I'm looking at buying some... Is it worth my cash to spend up to a Rama, or a Source Four? Or is the Parnel still something to look at? (Personally, I don't mind Parnels at all, but I know a lot of people hate them)


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## jglodeklights (Apr 20, 2011)

Blackfaer said:


> I have no Fresnels in my inventory. I'm looking at buying some... Is it worth my cash to spend up to a Rama, or a Source Four? Or is the Parnel still something to look at? (Personally, I don't mind Parnels at all, but I know a lot of people hate them)



When looking at purchase of new units, a major factor in looking at the purchase should be uniformity. One of the major advantages of a S4 Fresnel or Parnel is the HPL lamp being consistent across the range if you already have S4's. While at 10 lamps the price difference between a BTL and an HPL is almost negligible, if you can order a box of 50 HPL's and not have to stock BTL's you will save money over the long haul. Oh, and the lamps for Acclaims are bi-pin with BTL style filaments and quite a bit more expensive than BTL or HPL lamps, negating some cost savings over the long haul. 

However, other side of uniformity is being able to create entire systems. The size of my theater's main stage means there are usually 3 acting areas left to right and 3 to 5 downstage to upstage. If I'm designing a show with 12 acting areas, my back/down light system will then require at least 12 identical units for uniformity between them. If I'm using two colors of down/back light, then I will want 24 to make a full system. That is $7200 worth of units. However, if I were designing for my college's main stage I would need at least 5 acting areas across and at least 4 deep, thus requiring 40 units for a uniform 2 color back/down light wash. That means $12000 worth of S4 Fresnels. Oh boi. That's almost twice as expensive to purchase! 

Your needs will vary based on what you believe the intended use of the units will be and the size of your theater. 

The other variance between a Fresnel and the PARNel is the zoom range. Fresnels typically go between 6 and 60 degrees, PARNels are more limited at 25-45 degrees. Adequate in many situations, but possibly problematic in some situations.


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## Les (Apr 20, 2011)

Blackfaer said:


> Whoever said they were surprised to see a standard Fresnel instead of some fancy new lens... apparently hasn't seen the PARnel lenses... or isn't aware of what happened when they DID enter into the Fresnel market with some fancy new lens....


 
Ah yes, I believe that was me. I have in fact seen the Parnel lenses. I was just trying to be funny  .


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## theatreguy (Jun 19, 2011)

Holy cow, this is exciting. Shall have to start looking into replace the old Fresnels kicking around the theatre with these, allows for stocking a smaller assortment of bulbs and less disruption when changing bulbs. Very nice indeed!


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## Footer (Feb 12, 2012)

Alright, its been awhile since this thread started... 

Who has actually used this fresnel in an actual show environment? We are kicking around the idea of replacing 40 8" fresnels... is this thing worth it?


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## avery (Feb 12, 2012)

This is great news. I wonder when they will do a LED fresnel?


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## josh88 (Feb 12, 2012)

The Girlfriend just directed a show for a middle school and they have something like 30 of them washing the stage. I'm watching the show today and helping out with strike so I'll give you some opinions tonight. From what I've seen of them I'm not sure if I'm a fan or not. I will say the first thing I noticed is they don't seem to suffer from the hotspot that the S4 pars do. They looked almost perfectly even with no change of intensity within the light they put out.


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## bdkdesigns (Feb 12, 2012)

I haven't but a regional theatre nearby has. In a shootout with a Strand 8" Fresnel, it was brighter when fully flooded, however, it doesn't spot down as much. It also has an odd point in which is starts to flood back out with a drastic drop in lumens when spotting it down, thus it's hard to preset them to a spot.

Overal, they are great, brighter while using less power (they have them lamped at 750w). They haven't used them in a show with individual saturated gel yet so I couldn't tell you how that holds up. 

The adjustable yoke has come in handy as well.

The only negative seems to be the giant "Accessory Holder Door". They bought barndoors from City Theatrical that are designed for the ETC Par and they only fit in the outer slot. This causes a large amount of spill out of the sides of the fixture. This can be alleviated by either a dummy gel frame in the inner slot or BlackWrap. Even harder to deal with, the Wybron color scrollers (unsure of model) prohibit this door from closing. They just had to shave off 1/8" from the scroller frame itself in order to allow it to close. Not a deal breaker obviously but still annoying.

Overal, they are working out great once the kinks were worked out!


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## JWilsonLX (Feb 12, 2012)

Haven't used, but have seen. Nice and bright, lamped at 750w they at least match other 1000w fresnels. Lamp changing mechanism is nice and easy. Heavy though- near 20lbs.


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## josh88 (Feb 12, 2012)

BDK said about all I could have probably. Real bright and made for a great even wash. Other than that, visually they didn't stand out much, would like to work more hands on with them though.


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## tomlittrell (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi - re: the Source Four Fresnel - we realized quickly that the bottom accessory 'ear' was too thick for the Wybron scroller plate, so we've fixed that so the Wybron plate sits completely into the slot. Thanks for the great feedback. One thing we learned - if you want the beam characteristics of a Fresnel and good barn-door performance, you do it the classic way - with a Fresnel lens and a lamp in a spherical reflector. It only took a few years to make the system work with an HPL lamp!
Tom
Fixtures Product Manager
ETC


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## bdkdesigns (Feb 13, 2012)

I probably should have said that they were a part of the first shipment and purchased solely off of ETC's reputation site unseen. They had to make a purchase quickly before their energy grant expired and just took a shot at it. Glad to hear that the Wybron issue has been addressed. The designer for the first show that they got used in was hesitant to try them out at first but ended up loving them. After the first person used them, all the rest followed.


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## derekleffew (Feb 15, 2012)

Footer said:


> ... We are kicking around the idea of replacing 40 8" fresnels... is this thing worth it?


As much as I love a good Fresnel for some applications, for your uses (primarily concerts and some dance, yes?), I would think S4PARs would be better--brighter and less expensive. Plus the FRES7 only spots down to about an MFL.


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