# Burr shoots Hamilton, Audience Panics, Three Injured



## derekleffew (Feb 17, 2019)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ce-san-francisco-after-evacuation/2890413002/

How could this tragedy have been prevented?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 17, 2019)

By reports of other incidents similar to this, someone takes to a mic and manages the crowd. Whether that's telling them what happened and assuring no need to take other action, or direct an orderly egress, as actor Eddie Foy did at the Iriquois Theatre, without mic and amplification.

Now the Life Safety Code requires there be an asdigned crowd manager and a written plan. Don't know if that code is adopted in the jurisdiction, and will be interesting to see if there is any regulatory aftermath.

It would be hard to prevent whatever the audience members ailment or health event was, so just have to plan. Whether the event and planned shooting on stage could have been anticipated, not sure.


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## Amiers (Feb 17, 2019)

derekleffew said:


> https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...ce-san-francisco-after-evacuation/2890413002/
> 
> How could this tragedy have been prevented?



Sounds like they played the annoucment and FOH forgot to put it through the monitors. Or the audience just didn’t listen and blamed the theatre for their own stupidity. 

I would say continuously play the recording and maybe the SM get on the VOG as well rotating in recorded and real voices to calmly get people in check.


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## RonHebbard (Feb 17, 2019)

Amiers said:


> Sounds like they played the annoucment and FOH forgot to put it through the monitors. Or the audience just didn’t listen and blamed the theatre for their own stupidity.
> 
> I would say continuously play the recording and maybe have the SM get on the VOG as well rotating in recorded and real voices to calmly get people in check.


 *@Amiers* Two queries: Does your voice of God system cover your entire facility; auditorium seating, stage, wings, dressing rooms, lobby and patrons' washrooms*?* Is your voice of God system capable of the necessary levels, articulation and clarity to be clearly heard and understood over the din of an audience, performers and crew in full bore panic*??* 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Amiers (Feb 17, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Amiers* Two queries: Does your voice of God system cover your entire facility; auditorium seating, stage, wings, dressing rooms, lobby and patrons' washrooms*?* Is your voice of God system capable of the necessary levels, articulation and clarity to be clearly heard and understood over the din of an audience, performers and crew in full bore panic*??*
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



The current theatre I’m working in does yes. Personally I find it rather annoying cause our SM will vog then raido then com 30 15 10 5min calls.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 17, 2019)

I'll say that listening to experts I do not believe pre-recorded announcements are the solution. With assembly, announcements need to be based on real time information - someone live with eyes on the situation.


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## SteveB (Feb 17, 2019)

“May I have your attention please. This performance, which runs about 2-1/2 hrs with intermission, contains a scene that most of you will not recall from your American History class in high school, where Aaron Burr shoots Alexander Hamilton. In fact most of you have no idea what this musical is about but be aware there will be gunshots heard, they are part of the play and please do not panic or become otherwise concerned. Thank You”.


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## chausman (Feb 17, 2019)

There's a comment about the AED triggering an alarm. I know that's a pretty standard feature, however I'd argue that in a large assembly space that's not a good thing. 

It also makes me think having a building wide paging system is far more important from a life safety standpoint. Especially one with a certain level of automation, that's able to override house systems (or really, use them).


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## BillConnerFASTC (Feb 17, 2019)

I thought the alarm was at the fire department, not in the theatre?


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## Amiers (Feb 17, 2019)

I guess I got questions to ask when I goto work now on Tuesday. If our AED system is a mass alarm or just a contained alarm at the AED station. Or if it pings the local FD and EMT.


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## Footer (Feb 18, 2019)

I've never figured out why our AED's have alarms. Ours also send a trigger to our campus wide dispatch that shows an alarm. After reading this I'd like to see those alarms disabled.... might ask around at work about making that happen. 

On both my stages I have a very large megaphone for this exact purpose. Yes, we can use a god mic but I'd in the event of whatever I can grab that thing and be out onstage telling the audience and our ushers what to do... Ignore the alarm... get out.... whatever.


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## JohnA (Feb 18, 2019)

My other background is in Emergency Medical Services. The audible alarm on the AED serves both as an alert mechanism for event staff and also a theft deterrent. These expensive and very portable devices are typically in a cabinet in a public area. They have to be easily found and accessed--but that makes them a potential target to grow legs. Also, If the security /safety person(s) is not near the device and an emergency occurs, this insures they are quickly notified an emergency exists.


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## Amiers (Feb 18, 2019)

I could understand theft alarm. But why not put a magnetic switc or a push button on the bottom somewhere to prevent alarm while opening.

Million dollar idea.


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## bobgaggle (Feb 18, 2019)

So if I understand correctly:
1. Gunshot
2. Loud bang triggers woman's heart attack
3. People see woman keel over or start making distress noise and assume she's been shot
4. People panic about a potential mass shooter and start to run
5. Someone grabs AED to aid woman, triggering alarm
6. Someone pulls a fire alarm at some point.
7. Because fire alarm is sounding, everybody exits building.

Sounds like this could have been contained until the guy flipped the fire alarm. Hard to say, not enough info about the timeline...


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## SteveB (Feb 18, 2019)

Typically ushers are not present and closely observing the audience. It is somewhat an intrusion to the play/musical when you see them parked on the walls on the side aisle. They might and should be in the rear of the auditorium so that a patron can find them in need.

The house managers might not stay in the theater during a performance, so might not observe a problem. The SM isn’t going to be aware of a patron heart attacking.

Thus I think this got out of control in like seconds, and I’m not sure who or how they would prevent it. 

Maybe a dedicated response security team on site, with at least one member always observing and not via a camera system, but actually standing at the rear of the orchestra or someplace, and that’s going to cost a bundle,


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## FMEng (Feb 19, 2019)

The AED's I am familiar with have an alarm on the wall box door. They are loud, loud to the point of painful if you are close by. They are not connected to the fire alarm, nor do they signal anyone outside the building. It serves as a theft deterrent and a means to get the attention of additional help for the medical emergency. The box alarm can be disabled by removing batteries.


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## TheaterEd (Feb 19, 2019)

Footer said:


> After reading this I'd like to see those alarms disabled


 I hope your referring to your audible alarms and not your campus dispatch alarm. 
Any situation requiring an AED sure as heck requires an emergency response, but not necessarily a fire alarm level evacuation alarm. If you are zapping someone back to life, you better have first responders on their way. That being said, I certainly hope the alarm signal they send to campus dispatch indicates that it's a medical emergency and not something more sinister.


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## Chase P. (Feb 19, 2019)

My Red Cross first aid training suggests getting someone to find and bring the first aid kit and/or AED for almost any situation. That doesn't mean it's going to be used, just that it's immediately available if needed. I'm torn regarding the local alarm and the summoning emergency personnel. As someone responding to the situation, I'd err on the side of caution and call 911. But as a business, I understand that a number of false alarms can get you reprimanded or punished. I wouldn't want opening the cabinet to have the AED in a standby to cause more issues. Though at that level, I suppose the management that installed the thing can take responsibility for any issues.


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## FMEng (Feb 20, 2019)

Maybe I wasn't clear in my earlier post.  Opening the box door does not call anyone. It is nothing more than a local buzzer. 

To put it another way, it can only summon attention within audible range of the buzzer. Getting help assumes the person hearing it recognizes what the noise means.


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## Footer (Feb 20, 2019)

TheaterEd said:


> I hope your referring to your audible alarms and not your campus dispatch alarm.
> Any situation requiring an AED sure as heck requires an emergency response, but not necessarily a fire alarm level evacuation alarm. If you are zapping someone back to life, you better have first responders on their way. That being said, I certainly hope the alarm signal they send to campus dispatch indicates that it's a medical emergency and not something more sinister.



The complex I work on is the NYS Capital plaza. Due to the nature of the complex and the size we have a 24/7 staffed State Police barracks onsite. You call 911 at our place and it hits the call center on the complex, not standard dispatch... we also have "red phones" everywhere that direct dial them. Every alarm in my building hits that. We also have an EMT on staff that is the building whenever patrons are in the building so we are covered there as well. Also, the state police always have one trooper on the complex that is a trained EMT. The wired thing about our building though is there is not a single fire pull station in any public area, the only ones are SL/SR in my larger theater. 

My biggest fear in life is having to evacuate my building. The stage level is 80' above "outside", the back of the house is 100'. We have 10 stairwells that are fully concrete, double back on themselves, and are extremely closefisted. My fear always is that a general evac starts for a false alarm and people get injured in the stairwells.

I'm very cautious with audible alarms... and thats what I'd like to see disabled. The "open" signal sent back to the dispatch should remain.


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## Ancient Engineer (Feb 20, 2019)

Did some quick calcs: VOG at the place I am currently earning my keep from fires nearly 275 speakers simultaneously over a mile long corridor...

Some delay artifacting may occur.

We now return you to your regularly serious posting.


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## gafftaper (Feb 21, 2019)

Ancient Engineer said:


> Did some quick calcs: VOG at the place I am currently earning my keep from fires nearly 275 speakers simultaneously over a mile long corridor...
> Some delay artifacting may occur.
> We now return you to your regularly serious posting.



That's amazing!


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## maccalder (Mar 12, 2019)

Chase P. said:


> My Red Cross first aid training suggests getting someone to find and bring the first aid kit and/or AED for almost any situation. That doesn't mean it's going to be used, just that it's immediately available if needed. I'm torn regarding the local alarm and the summoning emergency personnel. As someone responding to the situation, I'd err on the side of caution and call 911. But as a business, I understand that a number of false alarms can get you reprimanded or punished. I wouldn't want opening the cabinet to have the AED in a standby to cause more issues. Though at that level, I suppose the management that installed the thing can take responsibility for any issues.



I would be very against it calling the emergency services - as they tend to be costly when incorrectly called out - however alerting campus security/campus EMTs - that is a good thing. Any large facility worth it's salt is going to have an incident management process. Whilst I would expect the person in charge of the facility at the time to have a significant knowledge of those processes and procedures, from a risk management point of view the sooner you can get a patient from being checked over by a trained first aider, to "in the care of a trained EMT" the better. I used to be the tech manager for a theatre located in a casino in Australia. Our EMT's had advanced life support equipment - essentially the contents of an ambulance or a small ER - on site and there were always 2 EMT's on duty. 

Any medical alarms would report to our SOC, and our SOC would dispatch EMT's accordingly - depending on the method of alarm (phone, pull point, automated (AED)) their responses differed - they had a line to the various emergency services and could have an ambulance "re-positioning" themselves to be more convenient to the potential emergency without issuing a full blown alarm, or they could have a full on response initiated.

The great thing about the EMT's response from my point of view as a manager - I would have an incident - for example someone made a major booboo and gave themselves an electric shock - startled, but appear okay. Call the SOC. EMT's arrive, one takes the patient down to their treatment room and chuck them on an ECG, the other gets the statements from those around the area, fills out the incident report and files it. They also file the report with the power company and with the relevant government agencies. I have no need to worry that the paperwork wasn't done. I knew that appropriate treatment was delivered, that from a legal standpoint I am covered (for response to the incident, not for the event causing it) and that most importantly, someone with more than a couple of days first aid training has checked the person out and they are okay and not going to pass out from an abnormal heart rhythm when they get home.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 29, 2019)

In many jurisdictions it is a requirement that if the fire alarm is triggered, it kills the house audio system. The idea is that it ensures that the fie alarm is the loudest thing and that people actually hear it. Now,this may not be feasible in places like arenas and stadiums or even many road houses where the show is bringing in a sound system that may be entirely separate from the house system.

As such, it is entirely possible that the venue did try to play a canned announcement but if the house system was disabled by the alarm, no one would have heard. Especially problematic if your technicians don’t know that this happens. 

In the theatre I used to work at, the house system was killed by building alarms. The alarm just tripped the power sequencers on the amp racks. We knew this was the case, so if we had alarms, we knew to reboot the system before sending someone out with a mic. Otherwise, we just sent someone out with a loud voice.

Suffice it to say, there is no way that anyone could have known this particular incident was going to happen. If people around the patient panicked, it doesn’t take much to incite mass panic. Consider also that in many theatres, the house staff is mostly volunteer, and many only come to one or two performances of any given show. They may have one or two trainings each year, but are not regularly trained and updated.


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## macsound (Apr 2, 2019)

I think @icewolf08 hit the nail on the head.
A theatre, even the Orpheum in San Francisco, a house capacity of 2,200 people, may only have 1 paid house manager. 
Not sure why even in theatre, customer service is so scarce. If there's an emergency or not, it seems crazy that ratio of 2200:1 is like Billy personally talking to every guest at Fyre Festival.


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