# Dimmers in the scene shop??



## bull (Nov 20, 2009)

Ok, so when our school theatre was built, the electrician thought that the Scene Shop would be the PERFECT place to put our to Sensor Dimmer Racks. WRONG! They are constantly full of dust, I vacuum them out almost every day, and they run at almost 81 degrees Fahrenheit all the time. It's becoming a problem, lights are jumping, major issues overall. I can't seem to think of a solution. Anybody know anything?


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 20, 2009)

You could build an enclosure around the dimmer racks to local building codes that has independent ventilation from the workshop. Draw in clean air from somewhere other than the workshop and exhaust the enclosure into the workshop. If you maintain positive air pressure within the enclosure then the dust from the workshop cannot be drawn into the dimmers.


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## bull (Nov 20, 2009)

Yea, now I just need to find codes, and I have to make the dimmers accessible, so I am going to have to find a way to make an almost "air-tight" door. And, I don't know that having the ventilation system pull air from another location can happen, that would require filing a work order to the county office, and that would never happen, so I'm going to have to come up with a high filtration system to attach to one of those portable air conditioners.


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## venuetech (Nov 20, 2009)

would some sort of shop air filter unit help?Grizzly.com -- Product Categories


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 20, 2009)

bull said:


> so I am going to have to find a way to make an almost "air-tight" door



That's exactly what you should NOT do. You neither need nor want it to be air tight. You want the air pressure inside the enclosure to be higher than the air pressure outside, and the only effective way to do that within your shop is to draw the air from somewhere else.

Filtration of your shop air just moves the problem from the dimmer rack to the filter system. A clogged filter means the air pressure around the rack drops, the rack starts drawing directly from the shop, and you get to clean both the filter system and the rack.


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## rwhealey (Nov 20, 2009)

Would building a little closet be the best method? You'd have to deal with the ventilation, fire protection, and all such other issues, but I don't think it would be out-of-reach expensive (unless your budget is zero!).


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## gafftaper (Nov 20, 2009)

The problem is venthilation. Long ago when I was young and dumb I was a High School teacher. The dimmer rack was 2 feet from the edge of the stage and noise was a constant problem during performances. I tried building a tight box around it to deaden the sound. This shot rack temperature through the roof causing all kinds of weird problems and we had to take it out immediately. 

No matter how you do this it's going to require: permits, work orders, and money for an expensive air ventilation system. You could build an airtight box or a positive air ventilation system in a non-airtight box. Either way is going to be expensive.


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## bull (Nov 20, 2009)

So, no logical solutions...


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 20, 2009)

What's on the other side of the wall that the dimmers are currently against? Maybe you could move them there and reroute the electrical, assuming there's enough slack in the cabinet to make that possible. You might have to elevate the dimmers to make up for the loss of slack.


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## bull (Nov 20, 2009)

sk8rsdad said:


> What's on the other side of the wall that the dimmers are currently against? Maybe you could move them there and reroute the electrical, assuming there's enough slack in the cabinet to make that possible. You might have to elevate the dimmers to make up for the loss of slack.


An 8 inch thick concrete wall. All the cables are fed through a pipe, which goes through the wall in it's own little hole about 20 feet up.


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## sk8rsdad (Nov 20, 2009)

bull said:


> An 8 inch thick concrete wall. All the cables are fed through a pipe, which goes through the wall in it's own little hole about 20 feet up.



I think you missed my point, or something is really screwy. You have an 8" concrete wall on the other side of the wall? I would have thought you either had another room, or the outside of the building.


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## bull (Nov 20, 2009)

LOL, I read it wrong, (I have pneumonia, and am on my 9th performance right now, nothing is very clear for me right now) I thought you had asked what was behind the dimmers, on the other side of the wall is the Stage.


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## MillburyAuditorium (Nov 20, 2009)

Well, pretty much what the others said. If you can get it down, maybe even build a tiny little room and make it a dimmer room and you can install a good AC unit in there and keep it nice and chilly : )

As for bad placement of dimmers. Our i96 rack is right off stage right wing, it is VERY loud, we finally decided to construct an exhaust piping to revert the sound to the ceiling.


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## museav (Nov 22, 2009)

Be careful with the idea of builidng a closet or enclosure, as rwhealey noted there may be code requirements relating to required clear space around the dimmers, fire ratings of any construction enclosing it, sprinkler requirements, etc.


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## FMEng (Nov 22, 2009)

If you can spend money, I would go to an electrical/mechanical engineering firm with the problem. The elecrical engineer will know the NEC access and fire code issues. The mechanical engineer will be able to design a proper ventilation or cooling system. 

Left to an HVAC contractor to design, it has maybe a 50/50 chance of working right. They usually underestimate the heat load produced by the electronics, unless you can give them accurate BTU specs from the dimmer manufacturer.


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## Les (Nov 25, 2009)

sorry man, sounds like you're kinda hosed. Poor planning at its best. Did they not get the memo concerning sawdust? lol.


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## bull (Nov 26, 2009)

Haha, I wish... i'll just keep bringin the air compressor in every week, it's no big... this is the second time our school system has managed to mess up dimmer placement. The first time was the middle school they just built, this time the dimmers are in their own, un airconditioned room... therefore they were constantly runnning at like 85 degrees... they finally put air conditioning in there, but they also installed four movers (ETC S4 Revs.) and wired them wrong, so when you tilt, channele 22 and 26 turn on also, it is kinda amusing actually. Ha. Thanks for the suggestions guys.


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## coldnorth57 (Nov 26, 2009)

channel 22 and 26 are comming on with mover that sound like a simple addressing problem


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## bull (Nov 26, 2009)

It mostly was, but they completely wired everything incorrectly, the movers weren't allowed enough channels etc. I'm not much for wiring, etc. I'm more into stage management.


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## mstaylor (Nov 26, 2009)

That's a matter of repatching in the softpatch not what the electricians do. You run the DMX and assign whatever many the light takes. If it doesn't work where it is assigned now, then move it to a space that will handle it. What kind of movers do you have?


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## bull (Nov 26, 2009)

They were ETC Revolutions, and sadly, I design lights, and I stage manage, I am HORRIBLE with programming.


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## mstaylor (Nov 28, 2009)

Hopefully can tell you more about the Revolutions,I haven't used them so I don't know how many channels it takes. Without rereading the thread I can't remember how many dimmers you have but say you have 96 and for teaching purpses say the movers take 26 channels. To make the assigning easy start your first mover at DMX position 100 through 126. Instead of starting at 127 with the next mover, jump to 130 to 156. That way as you try to program your movers each attribute is on the same single digit. This saves doing the math a bunch of times. If you had a bunch of movers you would still need a cheat sheet but the math is still easier.


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## derekleffew (Nov 28, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> ...To make the assigning easy start your first mover at DMX position 100 through 126. ...


I'd use (101)>(127), but maybe that's just me?


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## mstaylor (Nov 28, 2009)

There you go confusing the issue with facts.  You are completely right, it would be easier 101 to 127. I will now beat my head on the wall.


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## gafftaper (Nov 28, 2009)

bull said:


> Haha, I wish... i'll just keep bringin the air compressor in every week, it's no big...



Do you have a dryer on that compressor output line? High velocity condensation (or worse oil) is not the best for dimmers. You can get an in line filter at HomeDepot/Lowes for around $20-$30 if I remember right.


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## bull (Nov 28, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> Do you have a dryer on that compressor output line? High velocity condensation (or worse oil) is not the best for dimmers. You can get an in line filter at HomeDepot/Lowes for around $20-$30 if I remember right.




Well that I did not know... well, think of... thanks for the tip, will definitely be grabbing one, lately i haven't had time to grab the compressor, and have been vaccuming out the filters, but i will definitely grab one of those filters for my compressor now that i know that.


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## David Ashton (Nov 28, 2009)

Could I suggest that having so much dust in the air is actually a health and safety issue, both the explosive possibility and the health problems are well known.


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## bull (Nov 28, 2009)

eh yea... our scene shop space isn't that expansive... well it is, just the most of it is for storage... and it's not always that dusty, it just gets pretty bad when we start using the table and chop saw at the same time... we're all used to the dust though. actually adds quite an interesting texture to big macs we have found


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## bull (Nov 28, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> There you go confusing the issue with facts.  You are completely right, it would be easier 101 to 127. I will now beat my head on the wall.



ha, i'm not really positive how they are wired... at all actually, i assume DMX but almost everything is run off of stage pins, except for the movers i suppose? again, i am more into management, and i don't work in that theatre anymore... so it's not my problem now. However we do borrow the movers on occasion, but in that case, i will just reprogram them with our board.


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## tjrobb (Nov 29, 2009)

Be careful with a vacuum, too. If you use a plastic hose you can get a wicked static charge that can destroy some electronics. Might not be an issue depending on what you are cleaning (it can easily kill a PC), but wanted to give you a heads-up.


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## Studio (Nov 29, 2009)

Sounds like you need to get a dust collection system so the majority of the dust is sucked up when you first create it.


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## bull (Nov 29, 2009)

Studio said:


> Sounds like you need to get a dust collection system so the majority of the dust is sucked up when you first create it.


We don't even have close to enough money for that, Would be very awesome though


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## Studio (Nov 29, 2009)

bull said:


> We don't even have close to enough money for that, Would be very awesome though



Maybe a few shop vacs and a few freshmen...


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## bull (Nov 29, 2009)

Studio said:


> Maybe a few shop vacs and a few freshmen...


That's how it theoretically should be, but we are losing techs. fast. We have no freshmen this year that are dedicated. I am a little worried for the coming years. And, I'm too stressed to do it all right now.


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## Studio (Nov 29, 2009)

bull said:


> That's how it theoretically should be, but we are losing techs. fast. We have no freshmen this year that are dedicated. I am a little worried for the coming years. And, I'm too stressed to do it all right now.


I know the feeling my school's AV club has gone from 15 devoted to 5 devoted kids including me and 4 kids who don't care that much. From 15 to 9 i'm a bit worried.


You could get "helpful" actors to do it.


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## bull (Nov 29, 2009)

We have a couple "helpful" actors, they usually clean brushes though. Or prime things. We really just don't clean up that often. Well the saw dust that is. Cleaning for us is a complicated task, cause we store everything on those HUGE racks like they have at home depot, and only certain people are allowed to climb them. About three people to be exact. I am one.


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## dcollins (Nov 30, 2009)

bull said:


> That's how it theoretically should be, but we are losing techs. fast. We have no freshmen this year that are dedicated. I am a little worried for the coming years. And, I'm too stressed to do it all right now.



From what I hear, mine is the first freshman class in 3-4 years with significant experience and dedication...these things sometimes come in waves, one year you may find yourself with more techs than you can handle...I hope...

It's always possible to recruit people. People with no experience can still be interested in learning the ropes.


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## tjrobb (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm going on 10 years in the field, and when I started I had little to no experience (just wanted to be a part of something, and was good with tools). If you want, and are a good teacher, maybe you can talk to some of the kids in the industrial tech (or whatever they call it today) classes to see if they might be interested in helping out.


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## bull (Nov 30, 2009)

Yea, I'm workin on it. I've got a couple of Auto Shop guys, they are awesome. People trickle in, I have to get the word out though. I wrote an article on it for the school paper... but nobody reads that. :/


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## derekleffew (Nov 30, 2009)

bull, you might be interested in these threads: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/general-advice/7793-recruiting.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/education/8772-theater-getting-big-finally.html.


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## shiben (Dec 1, 2009)

tjrobb said:


> ... If you want, and are a good teacher, maybe you can talk to some of the kids in the industrial tech (or whatever they call it today) classes to see if they might be interested in helping out.



My school actually dropped all forms of shop/industrial tech/ect in favor of "life skills" (home ec.). It wasnt a particularly difficult class to pass, seeing as that if you could avoid lighting a stove on fire or drowning a fake baby, you were set. However, lord forbid we learn how to use a saw or a drill or something. Those are dangerous, and thus not fit for high school students to learn how to use.


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## mstaylor (Dec 1, 2009)

What the heck are some school system thinking. We are dumbing down kids and "protecting" them to their own detriment. I am not supposed to hire kids under 18 as stagehands but hire 16s all the time. They can learn at that age and it builds a good work ethic. Does your school system at least have a tech school?


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## sk8rsdad (Dec 1, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> What the heck are some school system thinking.


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## photoatdv (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm sure I've posted this one before... but we had a teacher my first year on the crew have the tech theatre class (not the club) pull a backdrop down to return to the school we borrowed it from. However, he felt it was too dangerous to let students on the loading gallery, so he simply didn't reweight that line. Opps... kid flying through the air...

(It's okay to laugh... everyone was okay... well except for that lineset ;-))


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## bull (Dec 1, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> What the heck are some school system thinking. We are dumbing down kids and "protecting" them to their own detriment. I am not supposed to hire kids under 18 as stagehands but hire 16s all the time. They can learn at that age and it builds a good work ethic. Does your school system at least have a tech school?



We don't have a tech theatre class. There are auto shop, and engineering classes though at the Career Academy. We have some techies in the Advanced Theatre Class, and we get to work, but nobody teaches us, we just kind of have to teach each other.

I recruited two freshmen off the drumline today.  It was extremely simple, something I do often. All I had to do was work in the theatre while they were practicing. They were intrigued by the ridiculous amounts of completely unsafe free climbing I was doing. One of them wants to do rigging, and he is a good candidate, and the other I have worked with before, and I will probably have him just working as a general stage technician doing some of this and that.


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## midgetgreen11 (Dec 1, 2009)

My high school doesn't have any technical theatre class. The "Theatre Production" class we have in our Program of Studies never has enough interest to run, and only covers the design aspects and not the physical technical aspects of theatre. Everything we learn is from personal research or from prior students.


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## shiben (Dec 2, 2009)

Our high school had a technology center, which is where all the kids who were not going to be going to college tended to go, so that they could build job skills. If you wanted to get enough of the correct classes to get into a college, you needed to stay out of the technology center, which required half of a day, 4 days a week. Those guys could take welding, car repair, carpentry, etc. I was in a "robotics" class for pre-engineering students. I got really good at using AutoCAD to draw things that we sent off to get milled/drilled/whatever needed to be done. Actually, the most unfortunate part of it was that I was trained on CADD before I ever even heard of hand drafting, so when I started doing theater design and thats all we were allowed I struggled (and had to fudge it on a particularly complicated one, did it all in Vectorworks and then traced it, teacher noticed because mine was the only one that was done correctly, asked why and I told him, he laughed for a week and commended me for my resourcefulness.) But yeah, in Jr. High we had a "shop" class that utilized "computer based learning strategies", which is code for "do nothing except take quizzes on a computer and make a CNC mill turn out 8" long plastic objects that are cylinders (guess what a bunch of jr. high boys make? guesses anyone?) and have the only tool in the class because a student uses it". Fortunately, my dad had tools that were real *ghasp*, I could have cut my hand off from the age of 5 (Not allowed to use the compound miter saw without supervision for a while), and I had a model railroad from the age of 12, which built up my skills such as measuring, cutting from a standard, painting, etc. But yeah, school districts in suburbia seem to be cutting back in favor of "safety" at the expense of education (I just found out that my HS theater apparently has had the table saw taken away due to safety issues, no idea how they are gonna learn how to use one safely any more)


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