# HELP! Fed up with Lehigh



## CelebrationMike (Jun 27, 2008)

I am the unwilling victim of a Lehigh Collage Expanded Mode CPM Programmable Station. I've tried for a few years to get this thing working, and I've finally given up. The system includes two 3X12 stations, 5 remotes and more bugs than my grade school ant farm.
Since this is installed in a church, budget is always a challenge. I've read through the forum and would love to go out and get a Strand or ETC, (and I plan to get a quote), but based on what I've read, I'm petrified as to how expensive it will be. 
The lehigh system has three panels with breakers that control all house lighting and the previously mentioned stations. Any recommendations on a church type system that can control up to 36 light fixtures and offer some basic programmable settings?
Oh yeah, actually working is also a consideration!

Thanks,

Mike


----------



## gafftaper (Jun 27, 2008)

Are you looking to replace it with a similar architectural wall control system? Are you looking to go with a real theater style control board only? or a mix of the two? What's your ballpark budget? Also what are using for dimmers and are your house lights wired into the rest of the dimmer rack? 

A typical approach would be to use an architectural wall mounted system to control just the house lights (Strand and ETC make them, I'm happy with my Leviton system). Then have a separate console for the stage lighting which can control the houselights when you want it to. 

If all you are using is 36 circuits of stage lights, nothing that changes colors or moves, and aren't worried about leaving some upgrade capability in the future. Something like the standard architectural stuff from Strand and a Strand 201 control board would be pretty slick. It's nothing fancy but it should work. If you are installing both a board and an architectural system depending on your dimmer situation you should be able to mix brands(I've got Strand dimmers, console, and architectural control but a Leviton unit that controls the architectural system in the back).

Probably the best thing for you to do is to call your local lighting dealer and have them come in and discuss your options and give you a price quote. Then come back here and tell us what the recommended. We can give you opinions on the package they put together... unless you are a great electrician you are most likely going to need to have them install this anyway. Where are you at? Maybe we can recommend a dealer to you.

In general I would look at only Leviton, Strand, and ETC for Architectural. For control consoles I would only look at Strand and ETC if at all possible. The cheaper options from those manufacturers are: Strand 201 and Basic Palette or the ETC Smartfade.


----------



## JD (Jun 27, 2008)

Ha! for a second, I read that as C/PM, which was the forerunner of DOS! (painful programming memory) Anyway, there have been a number of threads dealing with the Lehigh dimmers, don't remember any having a happy ending. First question, is this a theatrical or architectural (or mix of both) lighting system?

EIDT: Wow Gaff, you beat me by one minute! Anyway, same things I was thinking.


----------



## Charc (Jun 27, 2008)

JD said:


> Ha! for a second, I read that as C/PM, which was the forerunner of DOS! (painful programming memory) Anyway, there have been a number of threads dealing with the Lehigh dimmers, don't remember any having a happy ending. First question, is this a theatrical or architectural (or mix of both) lighting system?
> 
> EIDT: Wow Gaff, you beat me by one minute! Anyway, same things I was thinking.



My milk comes from Lehigh, and I like it. When my dimmers/control comes from Lehigh, I don't like it. They should stick to milk.


----------



## STEVETERRY (Jun 27, 2008)

CelebrationMike said:


> I am the unwilling victim of a Lehigh Collage Expanded Mode CPM Programmable Station. I've tried for a few years to get this thing working, and I've finally given up. The system includes two 3X12 stations, 5 remotes and more bugs than my grade school ant farm.
> Since this is installed in a church, budget is always a challenge. I've read through the forum and would love to go out and get a Strand or ETC, (and I plan to get a quote), but based on what I've read, I'm petrified as to how expensive it will be.
> The lehigh system has three panels with breakers that control all house lighting and the previously mentioned stations. Any recommendations on a church type system that can control up to 36 light fixtures and offer some basic programmable settings?
> Oh yeah, actually working is also a consideration!
> ...



We're standing by to help with relief from Wisconsin!

I guess we know how to do the stuff you mention, and pretty well.

Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

(I know, I took a shameless opportunity)



ST


----------



## lieperjp (Jun 27, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> We're standing by to help with relief from Wisconsin!
> ST



Wisconsin. Woot!!!


----------



## derekleffew (Jun 27, 2008)

I like the elegant simplicity of this control:


APP01
from one of the leaders in stage and architectural lighting technology.

I understand they also have a new line of innovative Ellipsoidal Reflector Spotlights.

/sarcasm off.


----------



## STEVETERRY (Jun 27, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I understand they also have a new line of innovative Ellipsoidal Reflector Spotlights.
> 
> /sarcasm off.



Don't start......


ST


----------



## Charc (Jun 27, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> Don't start......
> 
> 
> ST



Mhmm, a product designed specifically to undercut ETC by a handful of dollars... innovation!


----------



## lieperjp (Jun 27, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> I understand they also have a new line of innovative Ellipsoidal Reflector Spotlights.
> 
> /sarcasm off.



I saw those in  Stage Directions  today...

They look _vaaaaaaaaaaugely_ familiar.


----------



## Charc (Jun 27, 2008)

lieperjp said:


> I saw those in  Stage Directions  today...
> 
> They look _vaaaaaaaaaaugely_ familiar.



Not the first to look vaaaaaaaaugely familiar, either.


----------



## derekleffew (Jun 27, 2008)

a) The sincerest form or flattery; *OR* b) Patent infringement? Only your hairdresser knows!


----------



## CelebrationMike (Jul 2, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Are you looking to replace it with a similar architectural wall control system? Are you looking to go with a real theater style control board only? or a mix of the two? What's your ballpark budget? Also what are using for dimmers and are your house lights wired into the rest of the dimmer rack?
> 
> A typical approach would be to use an architectural wall mounted system to control just the house lights (Strand and ETC make them, I'm happy with my Leviton system). Then have a separate console for the stage lighting which can control the houselights when you want it to.
> 
> ...



We use a Martin LightJockey control system for theatrical lights. What we need to do is replace the Lehigh system for architectural lighting. Effectively, we have zero budget as an expense will have to be a capital expense from our building fund. The main concern here is getting something that doesn't go haywire every 2 - 3 months and require near contact repairs.

I have a local dealer coming out today, and I'll report back here!

Thanks!


----------



## CelebrationMike (Jul 2, 2008)

STEVETERRY said:


> We're standing by to help with relief from Wisconsin!
> 
> I guess we know how to do the stuff you mention, and pretty well.
> 
> ...



I think I'd do better getting you to come to Florida in January... Hope this is fixed before then!


----------



## Grog12 (Jul 2, 2008)

CelebrationMike said:


> I think I'd do better getting you to come to Florida in January... Hope this is fixed before then!



Uhm....heh? Except for us diehard skiers its easy to get people to Florida in January...I'm confused.


----------



## RedmonwantsEOS (Jul 2, 2008)

Im sorry you are having so much trouble with your Lehigh system. My school has one with the CT500 TouchScreen station, I think it is really nice. No trouble at all...
Good luck with getting a new system!


----------



## CelebrationMike (Jul 3, 2008)

UPDATE:
Had a rep out yesterday, we bypassed all of the remote panels because he thought we might be getting stray voltage from the way they were wired. We also found that an overambitious operations guy had replaced several of the bulbs in some standard light fixtures with compact fluorescent with a built in ballast. This is not a good thing! We replaced all of those with standard incandescent bulbs and so far so good. I reset the entire system, reprogrammed all presets and now we wait to see...

Thanks for the advice!


----------



## stageleft (Jul 15, 2008)

So in your Update you are saying the reason your system was not working properly was because someone installed non-dimmable CF lamps into a socket where dimmable lamps had been? How can that be Lehigh's problem?


----------



## Naimad (Jul 15, 2008)

I have been in the manufacturing end of stage and studio lighting for over 25 years. I have seen companies come and go, they flash onto the scene like a Quasar and end up a Black Hole. This industry has its leaders and followers, but you can bet your bottom dollar that things will change, the leaders will become followers, the followers will lead. I have just read a string of complaints about Lehigh Electric Products Company and in the end the connected loads were improperly lamped. The Lehigh system was fine. The real problem was human error. My old friend Steve Terry, patiently standing by in Madison, Wisconsin has seen this over and over again, as have I. Let's be careful out there (as they use to say on "Hill Street Blues") about damaging one of the companies of our industry. Do not put all of your eggs in one basket. I have worked for Strand (twice), Kliegl Bros., DeSisti Lighting, and Altman Stage Lighting, and all of these are or were contributors to the industry. If, somewhere down the road, you are left alone with one stage lighting manufacturer you will rue the day that you started on that road. Now, as Eastern Regional Sales Manager, let me say a few words in defense of Lehigh...first of all, I am glad Celebration Mike found his problem but nowhere do I see him mention a call to Lehigh Electric (610-395-3386 or Welcome to Lehigh Lighting - Controls, Dimming, Fixtures). Secondly, in case you do not know this, Lehigh Electric is one of the oldest continuous stage lighting manufacturers in existence (I say the oldest because what we know as Strand actually happened in 1969) having been founded in 1961. It is family-owned and operated since its founding and one of the most financially solid companies that I have ever worked for. Management is conservative, not quick to jump on every fad. All R&D is done in-house, which cannot be said for many others in the industry that go outside or buy companies wholesale. Lehigh is now #3 in the stage construction market, ahead of Leviton, ET/Genlyte/now Philiips, and EDI. We are just as strong in the Commerical Architectural market where we compete with Lutron, Lightolier, Leviton, and Lithonia. Please note: your company must begin with the letter "L" or you are not a factor in this market. Lehigh is a factor. I could go on and on but I am sure you have already tired of this rant. In closing, please do not talk any manufacturer into the ground...you are talking about the livelihood of employees, retirees, family, and associate companies. And if you have a problem with a product, go to the source first. Have a good summer...Damian Delaney, Lehigh Electric Products Co., [email protected]. (aka: Naimad)


----------



## Les (Jul 15, 2008)

Well way to go everyone, we pissed off Lehigh. This is the reason I've been sticking up for Altman so much lately!!! lol


----------



## Naimad (Jul 15, 2008)

Just for the record, Lehigh is not pissed off at anyone nor am I. I have seen this scenario before. I just not the type to let something like this go unchallenged. The CPM312 systems that Celebration Mike referred to is an older version, today we have the most friendly, intuitive Touch Screen Master Station (by the way, Celebration Mike was referring to Houselight Control not the Stage Lighting Console). As a Lighting Designer, I am sure you understand that it is an industry with a whole lot of alternatives out there. One alternative for anyone with a problem with a Lehigh system is to contact Dave Reppert our Service Manager at the number listed above or log on to our website under Service. We have thousands of systems installed around the country and relatively few complaints. I am simply suggesting that should you run into a problem, whether it's with ETC, Stand, Lehigh or one of the other companies, contact the proper party before you give that company a black eye on the blogoshpere.


----------



## derekleffew (Jul 15, 2008)

stageleft said:


> ...It happened to Colortran years ago when part of Las Vegas burned down and it was linked to their ENR design...


Whoa there--we're rather sensitive about the discussion of fires in Las Vegas. 

I'm sure you just missed a word or two, but allow me to clarify. A large hotel/casino's convention center had an installation with new-to-market Colortran ENR dimmers in several dimmer rooms. In fact, the entire property was Colortran, a couple of thousand dimmers, and a mixture of ENR and D192, due to when specs were written. Approximately five years after the initial installation, in one of the convention center's many dimmer rooms, one ENR rack caught on fire. The hotel's fire suppression system worked as designed, and property damage was minimal. No human injuries occurred. Colortran replaced all ENR dimmers on the property with their older D192 models. These were eventually replaced by ETC Sensor dimmers in phases over the next seven to twelve years.

I never drew the conclusion that this incident triggered the subsequent bankruptcy, buyout by Lee, and buyout again by NSI, but I suppose its possible/probable. All involved have moved on, having learned from their mistakes.


----------



## Les (Jul 15, 2008)

Yeah it was more of a joke, I don't personally have anything against you or Lehigh, and I didn't see your post as being overly aggressive. I checked out the website after you posted and Lehigh does have some good looking products. I also did a literature request in hopes of finding out more about the consoles. I've been looking for a small slider station for a while now (EDI used to have the Designer Series, but I haven't seen it on their website lately), but all I ever found was DJ oriented stuff. Lehigh has what I'm looking for and I might dig a little deeper and see if I can find a price on one. (PM me if you can help!). 

Stageleft, I'd personally like to hear about the Las Vegas fire. I haven't heard that story before. My local community theatre has '95 model ENR racks installed. The card went out in one, but other than that, no fires .

EDIT: Derek beat you to it.


----------



## derekleffew (Jul 15, 2008)

Above post #23 copied to the thread: History of Strand Lighting. Please post all non-Lehigh comments (regarding Strand and others) there.


----------



## gafftaper (Jul 16, 2008)

I've gone off on this rant in the past. Some of us on the board only play with big boy toys. Some of us on the board aspire so much to use big boy toys, we think that if it isn't EOS it's crap. That simply isn't the case. There is a lot of good equipment out there that although not suitable for Vegas or Broadway, is perfectly matched for applications like schools and churches. It would be wonderful if we could all have three or four racks of sensor dimmers. But we can't. Many of us can only afford a couple dozen dimmers from EDI, Lehigh, NSI, Dove, and others in that midrange. While we've never been able to agree on which is the best of this range of products, we can all agree it's much better than the Chinese crap on e-bay. 

The desire to have the most expensive toys at times leads us to be techno snobs. If you've been around a while you've seen the posts where people complain that good equipment from only a few years back are crap. In the past year I remember threads bashing the Strand 300, Altman 360Q's, and Allan and Heath sound boards... even the ETC Express took a few shots once. We can't all afford the latest stuff. You have to start somewhere, and often it's on older gear that someone hasn't treated right or didn't know what they were doing. Do you know what you are doing with it? Are you sure? It's easy to right something off as being junk, that way you don't have to take responsibility for not knowing how to operate and maintain it. As a good technicians it should be our goal to diagnose the problem and find out why someone thinks it's junk and see if we can help teach them how to use it better. Like Naimad said, Did anyone call the manufacturer's tech support?


----------



## TimMiller (Jul 17, 2008)

I have learned when hiring techs if they are always complaining about problems with the gear, its probably something wrong with them. Especially when i have used the exact rig the show before and the show after and never had any problems.


----------



## MNicolai (Jul 17, 2008)

TimMiller said:


> I have learned when hiring techs if they are always complaining about problems with the gear, its probably something wrong with them. Especially when i have used the exact rig the show before and the show after and never had any problems.





I remember hearing over the comm system once that a problem that was going on with lighting was sourced between the lighting desk and the chair.


----------



## derekleffew (Jul 17, 2008)

MNicolai said:


> I remember hearing over the comm system once that a problem that was going on with lighting was sourced between the lighting desk and the chair.


I've heard, and repeated, that line many times. IT/MIS people call it _PEBKAC_* error.



*Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.


----------



## drodjr1980 (May 10, 2022)

CelebrationMike said:


> I am the unwilling victim of a Lehigh Collage Expanded Mode CPM Programmable Station. I've tried for a few years to get this thing working, and I've finally given up. The system includes two 3X12 stations, 5 remotes and more bugs than my grade school ant farm.
> Since this is installed in a church, budget is always a challenge. I've read through the forum and would love to go out and get a Strand or ETC, (and I plan to get a quote), but based on what I've read, I'm petrified as to how expensive it will be.
> The lehigh system has three panels with breakers that control all house lighting and the previously mentioned stations. Any recommendations on a church type system that can control up to 36 light fixtures and offer some basic programmable settings?
> Oh yeah, actually working is also a consideration!
> ...


Would you be willing to get rid of a remote faceplate? We did a full remodel and the faceplate walked out the front door!


----------



## SteveB (May 10, 2022)

drodjr1980 said:


> Would you be willing to get rid of a remote faceplate? We did a full remodel and the faceplate walked out the front door!



You are aware this is what is known as A "necro post", in that the last response was in 2008, a full 14 years ago ?


----------



## dvsDave (May 10, 2022)

Desperate times call for desperate measures, but @drodjr1980 , you might want to reach out to @microstar


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 10, 2022)

JD said:


> Ha! for a second, I read that as C/PM, which was the forerunner of DOS! (painful programming memory) Anyway, there have been a number of threads dealing with the Lehigh dimmers, don't remember any having a happy ending. First question, is this a theatrical or architectural (or mix of both) lighting system?
> 
> EIDT: Wow Gaff, you beat me by one minute! Anyway, same things I was thinking.


Err...

That would be CP/M, not C/PM. We need to maintain historical computer nerd accuracy.  
For extra points, what was the WordStar control key sequence for underscore?

ST


----------



## JonCarter (May 10, 2022)

Isn't it "ctrl U"? 

I LOVE my WordStar! But I can't find an upgrade that will run on Win95.


----------



## STEVETERRY (May 11, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> Isn't it "ctrl U"?
> 
> I LOVE my WordStar! But I can't find an upgrade that will run on Win95.


actually ctrl p ctrl S to start, and the same to revert to normal.

ST


----------



## JonCarter (May 11, 2022)

Thanks, Steve. Now to that upgrade . . .


----------



## dvsDave (May 18, 2022)

JonCarter said:


> Thanks, Steve. Now to that upgrade . . .


Never happened. Here's a great synopsis that I ran across today about what happened to Wordstar. https://www.quora.com/What-are-some...-too-many-bugs/answer/Trausti-Thor-Johannsson


----------

