# Audio snake, with connector boxes at BOTH ends?



## Javik (Mar 28, 2014)

I'm trying to find a better solution to the problem of typical audio snakes.

So you've got a connector box on one end, and a pile of plug wires sticking out on the other end.

The snake plug wires you don't need to use don't have any place to go.
You can't tuck the unused cords away anywhere, and they are not removable, so they just sort of flop around in the dirt, on the ground in a random mound of tangled spaghetti.
These unused cords can get repeatedly smushed and crushed behind and around all the other audio gear, until after a while the connectors and wires are a wreck, and just because you aren't using them.
If the connections are high in the air on equipment, you have the weight of unused connectors hanging down, which causes extremely sharp bending apart of the wires where the multiconductor snake fans out. This hanging down weight crushes the insulation and over time can cause internal shorting where it folds over.
,

Who's the genius that came up with this horrible design? Why is this the "standard" of snake design?

It'd be much better to terminate both ends of a multi-conductor snake into terminal boxes.

For the snake connectors you want to use, plug in a patch cord which itself has a number or color code on both ends.
For the snake connectors you don't use, there's nothing hanging loose to get damaged or crushed on the floor.
The XLR patch cords meanwhile can be stored plugged together on a reel, or in a carrying case kept with the snake.
,

I have done a lot of searching. Oddly, no such snake with connector boxes on both ends appears to exist for sale anywhere. I have no idea why.


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## soundlight (Mar 28, 2014)

Most any custom shop (Whirlwind, Rapco, Pro Co, &c.) would be willing to make what you're talking about. I'm not sure how great of an idea that would be though...

That would be two more points of failure (two connectors whose solder joints/crimps/punchdowns could fail), and a lot more connectors. You'd be paying for all of the patch cables as well as panel-mount and cable-mount connectors that you don't pay for with a normal snake. I would recommend purchasing a snake bag (bag on the end to protect the connectors). Whirlwind's pig bags are great. PIGBAGS - Catalog - Whirlwind

Also, most times I plug in a snake it's sitting in a doghouse behind a console, and whatever tails remain unused just sit safely in the dog house. If you have "a random mound of tangled spaghetti," you should think about untangling the snake and possibly putting zip ties around some of the cables in that spaghetti in groups of 4 or 8 so that you can untangle them easier, and you should use a pig bag to hold the extra cables. It's even got the ring to hang from a roadcase/table/other nearby attachment point. Again, most snakes that I've seen have their cables subdivided in to groups of 4 or 8, and are color coded per group. Maybe I just mainly see & use awesome snakes.

How does this work with really nice expensive things? Both ends of a cable have MASS connectors (Whirlwind link). On each end you connect what you want - generally a large stage box (often in a rack) on the stage end of things, often with custom combinations of connections in single XLR patches and subsnake connections (mini MASS connectors). On the console end, you connect a fanout (Whirlwind Example) at the other end that has the number of inputs and outputs that you want.


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## Javik (Mar 28, 2014)

soundlight said:


> That would be two more points of failure (two connectors whose solder joints/crimps/punchdowns could fail), and a lot more connectors. You'd be paying for all of the patch cables as well as panel-mount and cable-mount connectors that you don't pay for with a normal snake.



Thank you I will take a look at those companies.

For what we do, everything is "temporary", and is constantly set up and torn down. The less loose wires danging around, the better.

My ideal would be a small 12-16 channel snake cable with multipin connectors on both ends and two snake fanout boxes with multipin sockets. Yes, this is more connectors, but much easier to set up and store away as two separate boxes and the cable on a reel.


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## AudioGreg (Mar 28, 2014)

The broadcast world uses something called DT-12, a 12 channel snake with a FK-37 connector on each end, one male one female. Breakout boxes or fanout cables can be attached to either end as required. TV trucks have these DT-12 connectors on the connector panel outside and are wired directly into jackfields inside for patching to the mixers etc. Whirlwind, Gepco, and many other companies make cables to this standard...


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## Morte615 (Mar 28, 2014)

Look into Digital snakes (Behringer: DIGITAL SNAKE S16 You can change boxes on each end with the number of in and outs that you want. And only a single cat5 cable goes between.
The cat5 cable is usually not recommended for traveling shows but it will work at times.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 28, 2014)

I'll also make up a custom snake for you. But I'm not sure if you'll find it any more convenient than the typical box to fan out snakes that you are referring to here. I've never had any of the problems you listed and I've had some of my snakes/cables for over a decade. Maybe a better cable management system would be more appropriate. As soundlight suggested, put the unused connectors back in the pig bags and use the Kellum grips for their intended purpose: strain relief. If you have neither of these on your snakes then maybe it isn't the general design of (sub)snakes that's the problem, maybe it's the design of the specific ones you have.


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## bishopthomas (Mar 28, 2014)

Morte615 said:


> Look into Digital snakes (Behringer: DIGITAL SNAKE S16 You can change boxes on each end with the number of in and outs that you want. And only a single cat5 cable goes between.
> The cat5 cable is usually not recommended for traveling shows but it will work at times.



The way I understood the OP, he's talking about subsnakes rather than strictly main trunks.


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## Morte615 (Mar 28, 2014)

And the difference is? 

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## themuzicman (Mar 28, 2014)

The New York theatrical market uses pretty much nothing but Wireworks G-Blocks, which seem to suit Javik's needs. You get your trunks in 3, 6, 9, 15, or 19 pair cables and then you can connect them to either rack-mounted panels, stage boxes, or just tails that break out into XLR. You can have tails at the console and a stage-box - or whatever variation you need. It's fairly useful and a lot better than the Whirlwinds MASS connectors in terms of customization.


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## FMEng (Mar 29, 2014)

Every additional connector in the signal path is a potential failure, especially so with low level signals from microphones.

Snake cables are going the way of the dinosaur along with analog consoles.


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## museav (Mar 29, 2014)

Having a box at the console with individual patch cords seems like not only additional points of failure but also twice as many connections to have to make at the console end. However, I agree with soundlight that many of the common professional snake manufacturers will custom make just about whatever you want.

Most people try to get a snake where there are few, if any, unused connectors at the console. For permanently installed consoles you can usually use tie wraps and mounts to relieve the stress on the cables while many touring consoles use a doghouse so there are no connectors hanging down putting stress on anything and all the connectors as well as the rear of the console is protected. Some people will use multipin connectors such that the breakout wiring from the console is in a doghouse with just one or two multipin connections to be made to the snake(s).


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## gafftapegreenia (Mar 29, 2014)

Maybe you just need a smaller snake?


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## Javik (Mar 31, 2014)

bishopthomas said:


> The way I understood the OP, he's talking about subsnakes rather than strictly main trunks.



We are so small that there's no such distinction for sub and main snakes. I'm just wishing for something better.

So. I've been looking. I see this is lots of bucks. About a thousand bucks for a 50' DT-12 and two pigtail ends.

That Behringer: DIGITAL SNAKE S16 is also about the same cost... hmmm, wonder who their target market is? The sales pictures for it are odd though, only shows one device end. Would be nice to see the other end of it. Or are you supposed to buy two of the head-end units for $1000 each?


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## museav (Mar 31, 2014)

Javik said:


> That Behringer: DIGITAL SNAKE S16 is also about the same cost... hmmm, wonder who their target market is? The sales pictures for it are odd though, only shows one device end. Would be nice to see the other end of it. Or are you supposed to buy two of the head-end units for $1000 each?


The S16 is really intended primarily for use with the X32 mixers, but as a standalone digital snake to analog at both ends then yes, you'd need one S16 unit at the stage and a second S16 unit at the mixer. And if you wanted to have analog outputs to the mixer for more than 8 channels from the stage then to get channels 9-16 out you'd also need something like an ADA8000 connected to the FOH S16 via ADAT. So a total of almost $2k for a 16 channel digital snake.


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## TimmyP1955 (Apr 1, 2014)

I'd hate to have to whip out a boatload of cables to connect the second box to the console. Give me a standard fanout. And I'll support it properly so as not to stress anything.


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