# How can I record a worship service for cheap?



## bignate (Dec 8, 2010)

hey guys this is only my second post so bear with me..I am the tech at a small church and am wanting to be able to record piano and vocals maybe sermons just for personal use i dont need million dollar quality..We have a yamaha 312 mix board with a built in amp it has the 2 little red and white rca outputs and is labled "record out" i am wanting to record like the piano from the worship service onto a computer and maybe burn it to cd so i can give it to the pianist or vocalist or even record a sermon for some of our mission churches to hear some teachings..we have 2 wireless mics and the piano and all are wired mics are setup and ready to go no wanting to record all at once just telling you what i have.. mainly what im wanting is to go from the to rca "record out" to a laptop is what id like to do i dont want to have to buy a speacial recorder or anything just simply record it to a laptop and burn it off maybe put it on my ipod maybe if the church gets more of a demand then upgrade so heres it a in a nut shell

1.. what kind of cord do i need and what kind of hardware on the computer as far as what input on the laptop??
2..Are there special programs i HAVE to have to record and put onto cd or itunes??
3..is there anything else i will need ??


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## DiscoBoxer (Dec 9, 2010)

bignate, for a very simplistic and cheap way to do it, you could download "Sound Capture" or "Easy MP3 Sound Recorder". They are freeware and should do the trick. Sound Capture limits you to record at 128k where as Easy MP3 will allow you to record at better quality. You should be able to route each source out to your record on the mixer.

You would need to buy a cable that on one end has two stereo RCA males to 1/8" male stereo connector. Probably can be had for $3-$10. For the software listed above, you need to have a PC with a sound card that has a "line in". That should be all you need. This is not going to give you the best of quality, but it should be sufficient for your personal use. 

Getting into recording can be a touchy subject sometimes and you should be aware of some potential concerns that may come up. Others around your church may like that you have recordings and then begin to ask you to produce a copy for them. Most worship songs done at churches are copyrighted, even though performed by someone else. You may want to check out Welcome To CCLI for information on recording songs covered. To be in total compliance, I would suggest getting a subscription. If your church uses outside produced video, dramas, or any other type of media, you will have to be aware of the limitations that those likely copyrighted materials will have. Or, exclude them from your final master. I am sure that there are many people on this forum who can help you in regards to copyright issues if you ask. Just be aware in what you do, for personal, your likely fine.

For sermons, your Pastor or speaker must be aware that you are recording. This is law in Ohio and most states.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 9, 2010)

DiscoBoxer said:


> bignate, for a very simplistic and cheap way to do it, you could download "Sound Capture" or "Easy MP3 Sound Recorder". They are freeware and should do the trick. Sound Capture limits you to record at 128k where as Easy MP3 will allow you to record at better quality. You should be able to route each source out to your record on the mixer.
> 
> You would need to buy a cable that on one end has two stereo RCA males to 1/8" male stereo connector. Probably can be had for $3-$10. For the software listed above, you need to have a PC with a sound card that has a "line in". That should be all you need. This is not going to give you the best of quality, but it should be sufficient for your personal use.
> 
> ...


 
Also another good audio recording software is audacity, And its not a 1/8" its 3.5mm on a computer.


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## WooferHound (Dec 9, 2010)

I would hook up your recorder to 1 or 2 unused AUX Outputs from the console. That way you can select any individual things to record, or create your own separate mixes.


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## Anonymous067 (Dec 9, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> And its not a 1/8" its 3.5mm on a computer.


 
And the difference is?


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## jonliles (Dec 9, 2010)

Anonymous067 said:


> And the difference is?



about 0.325mm, which in our imperial measurement world means very little. In my engineering world, it can mean a big difference in tolerances & gas turbine efficiency.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 9, 2010)

jonliles said:


> about 0.325mm, which in our imperial measurement world means very little. In my engineering world, it can mean a big difference in tolerances & gas turbine efficiency.


 

It also means, less strain on a connector which on many laptops are smaller than 3.5mm anyway, Less strain = better connection = longer lasting.


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## cruz517 (Dec 9, 2010)

DiscoBoxer said:


> bignate, for a very simplistic and cheap way to do it, you could download "Sound Capture" or "Easy MP3 Sound Recorder". They are freeware and should do the trick. Sound Capture limits you to record at 128k where as Easy MP3 will allow you to record at better quality. You should be able to route each source out to your record on the mixer.
> 
> You would need to buy a cable that on one end has two stereo RCA males to 1/8" male stereo connector. Probably can be had for $3-$10. For the software listed above, you need to have a PC with a sound card that has a "line in". That should be all you need. This is not going to give you the best of quality, but it should be sufficient for your personal use.
> 
> ...


 
What all does this Church Copyright License allow you to do with the songs is it for in church use only or can you post your recordinngs online in say a yputube video?


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## avkid (Dec 9, 2010)

Let's stop this before it gets silly.
3.5mm Mini stereo (TRS) connectors are referred to as 1/8" by many Americans.
For our purposes the values are interchangeable in this context.


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## bignate (Dec 9, 2010)

Okay great info thanks alot disco. So i found both of the programs u mentioned on www.findmysoft.com just type in what your looking for and they were free. So great...Getting ready to buy a laptop for mysef but pretty much as long as i have the jack with a little pic of a microphone it should work right?? Trying to find my cord right now getting ready to go surfing as we speak haha! I will definetly check out the copyright info and make sure everyone knows that recording is in progress. Thats all i can think of for now i'll let you know how it goes when i get it working thanks..
PS just found my cord on ebay 12$ with shipping went for the better gold plated jacks 6ft cord not bad..Now for a laptop!!!!


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## DiscoBoxer (Dec 10, 2010)

cruz517 said:


> What all does this Church Copyright License allow you to do with the songs is it for in church use only or can you post your recordinngs online in say a yputube video?


 
I believe it limits you to "in-church" use, but that including distribution to your congregation as long as you do not charge a fee for it as well as the in-house teams for review.

Posting to youtube or your home page requires a different type of license.


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## Tex (Dec 10, 2010)

DiscoBoxer said:


> For sermons, your Pastor or speaker must be aware that you are recording. This is law in Ohio and most states.


In the majority of states, only one party has to be aware of the recording. Only 11 states have a law requiring that all parties are aware. Ohio is not one of them.
"Can We Tape?"


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## Chris15 (Dec 10, 2010)

Quite frankly, the law is only a small part of the story in this situation.
I will contend that in a church, ethical standards should far surpass the minimum of the law.
Good manners suggest that you seek the permission of a person before recording their message. Mostly they will be cool with it. If they decline permission then you must consider your conscience as to whether you go with the line of well the law says I can do it with only one party's consent...


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## Tex (Dec 10, 2010)

Chris15 said:


> Quite frankly, the law is only a small part of the story in this situation.
> I will contend that in a church, ethical standards should far surpass the minimum of the law.
> Good manners suggest that you seek the permission of a person before recording their message. Mostly they will be cool with it. If they decline permission then you must consider your conscience as to whether you go with the line of well the law says I can do it with only one party's consent...


I agree, however I would apply a "reasonable expectation of privacy" standard. In the case of a church pastor, my logic would be as follows:
1. His purpose for speaking is to have his message heard by as many people as possible. 
2. He speaks in a public venue where all are invited, even encouraged to attend.
3. If there is no signage or notice in the bulletin that recording is forbidden, record away.
If the person speaking has a reasonable expectation of privacy, I would ask permission.


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## museav (Dec 10, 2010)

DiscoBoxer said:


> I believe it limits you to "in-church" use, but that including distribution to your congregation as long as you do not charge a fee for it as well as the in-house teams for review.


With the standard CCLI Church Copyright license I believe the number of copies allowed is 15% of the number of members you identify when you obtain the license and you are allowed to charge up to $4 for a cassette or CD and up to $12 for a videotape or DVD. However, the recording license is also apparently limited to live performances, backing tracks and canned music cannot be recorded under the license. In effect, you can record a performance of the music but not make a copy of a recording of someone else's performance.

As far as the "in-church" component, Federal copyright law exempts “public performances of music in the course of religious services at a place of worship", however outside of worship services Federal copyright law views a church as no different than any other entity. In terms of the performance itself, CCLI Church Copyright licenses do seem to rely on the worship service exemption in Federal copyright law and as a result apparently do not address any Performance License component. However, the interpretation of "worship" is not well defined and while music performed as an integral part of a regular worship service seems pretty clear, what about music played before and after the service or weddings and funerals or at other church events or music on hold or background music and the list goes on? And what about Rehearsals? All of these may be considered to not be a direct component of a worship service and thus may not be exempt.


DiscoBoxer said:


> Posting to youtube or your home page requires a different type of license.


Yes, so does any media not covered by CCLI. Or putting copyrighted music to video presentations. Or the use of music or video in dramatic presentations. And when do you cross the line between a worship service and a dramatic performance, which gets into completely different rights?

CCLI is a great resource for churches that want to address copyright for audio and video in their services or movie nights. However, if you want to address music rights that can extend outside the service itself or that address any form of broadcasting or webcasting then you may have to look elsewhere to somebody like Christian Copyright Solutions (CCS) or directly to ASCAP, BMI and SESAC or in the case of dramatic performances, direct to the composer or rights holder. It becomes quickly obvious that copyright for churches can be a rather complex and convoluted issue and you may want to get some expert guidance for an attorney or other qualified party.


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## DiscoBoxer (Dec 12, 2010)

Museav, thanks for adding in the further details regarding CCLI and copyright. I'm glad you mentioned the challenge with compliance and how difficult it can be for an organization to clearly know the limitations of their license. This is one area where I am spending a lot of time researching as of late. I am decent at following the "jargon", but it can be very difficult at times, especially in some gray areas like what you have mentioned above. I bet that a whole forum could be dedicated to that issue alone.


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## gcpsoundlight (Dec 15, 2010)

Be carefull about plugging line inputs into mic inputs. This can cause (sometimes) distortion etc. If your laptop doesn't have a dedicated line input, you can get an external USB interface on ebay for around $30. This should also improve sound quality.


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## bignate (Dec 15, 2010)

gcpsoundlight said:


> Be carefull about plugging line inputs into mic inputs. This can cause (sometimes) distortion etc. If your laptop doesn't have a dedicated line input, you can get an external USB interface on ebay for around $30. This should also improve sound quality.


 
yeah i think imight have hit this problem on wednesday night.. we have bible study at 7pm but some of the worship crew comes and practices, so i went earlt tonight and tryed my setup.. It is pretty bad i bought like i said a good gold plated heavy 6ft cord and everything hooked up fine..I recorded about thirty seconds and played it back sounded terrible it would play loud kinda ratlly then it would cut out and sound like it was far off but it was clear..so i tryed turning the board up and then down then i tryed turning the recording volume up on the program then down and i coulodnt get anything to change,so i tryed a different cable we use for hooking a ipod up to the system and still is the same so im thinking i might need a filter or interchange of somesort..GCP soundlight what is the piece u are talking about what woulod i need to type in to pull it up??


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## gcpsoundlight (Dec 16, 2010)

M-AUDIO MIDIsport 2 X 2 USB midi interface LTD edi BNIB (eBay item 280601928645 end time 20-Dec-10 22:21:38 AEDST) : Musical Instruments

Something along these lines would work. This unit is in australia, so the price is in AUD.


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## bignate (Jan 16, 2011)

okay so been shopping and dealing with other things lately but i have been looking at different interface setup and have come across the yamaha audiogram 3 system or setup was wondering if you guys had any opinions on it my church would like to spend around 
75$-150$ do you guys have any other recomendations let me know thanks im mainly needing something that goes rca in to rca out


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## howlingwolf487 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think that a Lexicon Alpha may be the ticket for you, especially if you're on a tight budget. You could use 1 mic and 1 Line Input, 2 Line Inputs, or record directly without a mixer inbetween.

There are a number of ways to get a recording off of the mixer - using the RCA outputs that you originally mentioned is one way. Doing it this way will exactly duplicate the mix going to the main speakers (which may or may not be what you want...often this is not the case).

My recommendation is to use one Aux Send from the mixer (so that you can control the levels of each channel going to the recording) AND a microphone connected directly to the audio interface. You'll probably need to line the board mix and the mic feed up in the recording software (just make sure the audio waveforms begin at the same place...that'll take care of it). Blend the two to taste and you've got your recording. Maybe experiment with light compression on the whole mix...the options are endless!

Let us know how it goes.


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## bignate (Dec 5, 2011)

okay so ive been recording for a while now with audacity as my program and with the audiogram 3 converter been getting some great music recordings. now im wanting to up the anti on a little better program.with audacity when i record when the performer hits a higher note it maxes out on the program like the sound goes bigger then what can be recorded on the program so im wanting to get something that i can get the full sound without maxing the program out and making the recording cut in and out anybody know of a good program i can pickup for between 50-100$??


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## DuckJordan (Dec 5, 2011)

That's gonna happen on every program your gain settings need to be tweeked not get a new program.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## damjamkato (Dec 5, 2011)

bignate said:


> okay so ive been recording for a while now with audacity as my program and with the audiogram 3 converter been getting some great music recordings. now im wanting to up the anti on a little better program.with audacity when i record when the performer hits a higher note it maxes out on the program like the sound goes bigger then what can be recorded on the program so im wanting to get something that i can get the full sound without maxing the program out and making the recording cut in and out anybody know of a good program i can pickup for between 50-100$??


 
What do you mean by maxing out? If you mean clipping, when the incoming signal overloads what the sound card can handle, getting a better recording program won't fix the issue. Either turn down the recording level or use a compressor on the vocals.


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## waynehoskins (Dec 6, 2011)

Compression is your friend. If you can't compress at the console (which I would very much recommend), the other options are to put a comp inline to the recorder or to turn the recording feed down.

The more you can control your dynamics at the channel strip, the easier life will be, both live and recording. Everything tends to sit in the mix pocket much better. You can of course go too far and squash the life out of it, but with the right adjustments it's no problem.

The old dbx 160X is quite popular (I have a bunch of the card version, the 903, at my church and love them); I also like the BSS DPR-402 and 404 for vocals (they have de-essers, very valuable for vocals).

Looking at your context, it's probably impractical to introduce individual-channel compression. I believe your mixer is an EMX312 box mixer, which probably doesn't have channel inserts or other features you'd want for recording or better performance use. You could easily spend many times more than what the EMX is worth to replace it with a better console, outboard, and system-processing and power amplifiers (even before addressing the speaker system and the room, which could cost a similar amount). The most practical solution is to turn down the recording feed so the biggest peaks don't clip the recording chain.


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## bishopthomas (Dec 6, 2011)

waynehoskins said:


> Compression is your friend.


 
NOOOO!!!!!

Only record the dry, unprocessed signal. If you want to add compression do that in post. If you're clipping the signal simply turn down the gain. Pretty basic gain structure principles...


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## waynehoskins (Dec 6, 2011)

bishopthomas said:


> NOOOO!!!!!
> 
> Only record the dry, unprocessed signal. If you want to add compression do that in post. If you're clipping the signal simply turn down the gain. Pretty basic gain structure principles...


 
Very true when you're tracking. Some guys go as far as to track their electric guitars straight out of the guitar, no pedals, no amp (to get the playing right), and then reamp it through their pedals and amp in post so it can be fixed or changed.

But for a 2tk live mix, you just about have to get it right at the console the first time. Dynamics, EQ, effects, mix, all of that. Talking about individual-channel compression here, not overall mix -- which you're right on that, it's better to not compress the overall mix post-console for recording (though I would put in a brick wall just before the recorder's clipping point, so if you do get a huge peak, the limiter will catch it before the soundcard clips).

Since this thread is about recording from a box mixer, individual compression is out, as is tracking. The only option is to turn the feed down (or, if bad gain structure is at fault, fix that). It's always best to have a bit of headroom when recording to computer, as you can apply some gain in post to bring it up but you can't unclip in post.


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## bignate (Dec 11, 2011)

okay yes clipping is what i have..so i understand turn the gain down yeah thats pretty basic and turn down the recording volume but i guess i needa find the right mix your talking about because i can turn down the recording volume but then it seems to quiet when i put it on my ipod and it has static in the background..if i turn down the gain knob in a live performance then i get looks from the worship leader or memebers of the audience to crank the vocals up ive got the instrument dialed in so i guess its just a thing of playting with the mix..that works i can do that thanks..do any of you guys record with audacity??? do you mess with the gain and recording volume itself in the program? or just leave it all at default and adjust at the console?...and just out of curiosity what program do you guys record with and what did it cost??


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## DuckJordan (Dec 11, 2011)

bignate said:


> okay yes clipping is what i have..so i understand turn the gain down yeah thats pretty basic and turn down the recording volume but i guess i needa find the right mix your talking about because i can turn down the recording volume but then it seems to quiet when i put it on my ipod and it has static in the background..if i turn down the gain knob in a live performance then i get looks from the worship leader or memebers of the audience to crank the vocals up ive got the instrument dialed in so i guess its just a thing of playting with the mix..that works i can do that thanks..do any of you guys record with audacity??? do you mess with the gain and recording volume itself in the program? or just leave it all at default and adjust at the console?...and just out of curiosity what program do you guys record with and what did it cost??


 
I've used audacity to record and its within the software once you get it close with the board.


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## venuetech (Dec 12, 2011)

with the  Yamaha emx312you may be better off to use the "monitor" output this would allow you separate control of the output level you would need a 1/4" to rca adapter. It is likely that the rca out that you are currently using are just taped off of the amp inputs, giving you an line level.


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