# Mackie's new IOS console



## Grog12 (Jan 26, 2012)

Mackie's iPad Controlled Mixer Lets Sound Techs Escape the Booth

Barring the fact that a certain user will think its the greatest thing ever (  ) what are all your thoughts on this?


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## rsmentele (Jan 26, 2012)

I saw it the other day.... its OK, it has appeal for obvious reasons, but I don't think I would rely on my ipad to run my show... plus having the tactile fader's and eq knobs is a plus to me... so I don't think I'd spend around $1000 for it. Also, now I have another reason to never leave the sound board. Its hard enough for someone to swipe a sound board if its all patched and such, but with the interface and an ipad, someone could walk by, un-dock the ipad, and its gone.... Not a major concern, but something to think about....
Just my opinion


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## museav (Jan 26, 2012)

There's been a lot of discussion elsewhere on this and the somewhat similar Behringer XENYX iX mixers also recently announced (Behringer Introduces Revolutionary iPad Mixers XENYX iX3242USB, iX2442USB and iX1642USB - Behringer News).

One concern several people voiced is long term compatibility and support. On a recent AV project I needed two different iPad docks and a 'universal' dock with five different inserts along with multiple adapter cables just to handle the existing docking variations in Apple "i" products, so what happens if the next generation iPad is not compatible with the mixer's dock? Buying compatible used iPads off eBay may be a great option for individuals but may not be feasible for schools, professional or public venues, etc.

While some people expressed that seeing it being great that if you did have a problem then iPads are so common that it would be easy to get another one or borrow one, unfortunately that being viable depends on how the related app is handled as an iPad without the app would not be of much value.

There was a definite split regarding the lack of physical buttons and knobs. The interface is probably fine for the targeted basic garage/frat house/bar band applications but likely less than ideal for many theatrical or more advanced applications. No way to know if you have a control without looking and missing things like center/0 detents would likely mean a lot of 'heads down' mixing.

A couple of people pointed out that having the preamp gain/trim on the physical console and possibly no related control or monitoring on the iPad may detract from using the iPad remotely. Hopefully there will at least be a way to tell from the iPad if you're clipping an input.

The theft issue was definitely brought up as well as the potential of damage when using an iPad wirelessly. This is a bit the opposite of the control issue as a theater is probably a less risky environment to be walking around with an iPad than a bar or club.

The ability to have up to 10 control surfaces is potentially very nice for things like a personal mixing system. The possible downside is that it seems that all control surfaces would have full access to everything, I guess we'll have to wait and see if they come out of a different app for such use or the ability within the app to limit access to the controls.

Whit is a bit ironic is that is that once you factor in the price of the mixer and an iPad, if not also a spare, you are getting close to the cost of some of the entry level compact digital mixers being introduced, many of which also support the addition of an iPad for wireless remote mixing. So whether there will both iPad based and more traditional options or whether the manufacturers will wait to see if one trumps the other and then focus future development in that direction remains to be seen.


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## Stookeybrd (Jan 26, 2012)

For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.


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## museav (Jan 26, 2012)

Stookeybrd said:


> For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.


I'm not going to decide anything until it is an available product with people having had a chance to try out the actual production hardware and software. The Behringer X32 digital console was going to be a 'game changer' for some of the same markets and over a year after being announced and first shown it is still vaporware. Availability for the Mackie DL1608 is currently noted as 'Summer 2012' and I've heard May/June rumors which makes me wonder if the rumored April/May 2012 release for the iPad3 has any bearing on the availability of the Mackie and Behringer iPad based mixers. I could see verifying compatibility with and/or taking advantage of the processing and performance of the iPad 3 being a factor in when they actually go into production.


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## Footer (Jan 26, 2012)

Stookeybrd said:


> For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.


 
Agreed. These things will fly off the shelves at banjo centers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 26, 2012)

I could see it being popular with community theatres. Imagine an iPad running QLab. Slap it on the mixer and you've got your show in a tidy portable package. Of course, Figure53 would have to port QLab to IOS but stranger things have been known to happen. The most likely market is small time DJs. Bundle it with a couple of Mackie powered speakers and away you go. A clever person would be able to integrate lighting control too.


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## chausman (Jan 26, 2012)

sk8rsdad said:


> . A clever person would be able to integrate lighting control too.


 
Unless the app took two or three minutes to start and get connected to the correct console. Which, may be an issue as well. If the app were to crash, how long until I get control again, and what happens to anything currently running through it?

(oh, and shameless plug for the intro video I found)
[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACo3VgXijlU[/video]


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## avkid (Jan 26, 2012)

Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.


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## chausman (Jan 26, 2012)

avkid said:


> Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
> Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.


 
But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.


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## avkid (Jan 26, 2012)

chausman said:


> But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.


 
However the control surface does nothing when the software crashes.


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## epimetheus (Jan 26, 2012)

That video was so typical Mackie. A far as the actual product goes, just somebody else cashing in on the fruit bandwagon. The only thing I would applaud Mackie for is creating a product that will make them money and attract attention. For the knowledgeable consumer, there are better choices.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk


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## sk8rsdad (Jan 27, 2012)

chausman said:


> Unless the app took two or three minutes to start and get connected to the correct console. Which, may be an issue as well. If the app were to crash, how long until I get control again, and what happens to anything currently running through it?



Do apple products crash? 

Actually, I was applying the idea to the DJ market, not theatre, with some dedicated DMX dongle, but hey, your idea could work too. Kinda defeats the portability angle though.


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## SoundTom (Jan 27, 2012)

I see another potential problem: what happens when the wireless goes down? At my college, we use the M7 iPad app to run monitors, but with a big conference in the building, the wireless has ground to a halt, making the iPad useless. It's a minor inconvenience for us, but what happens when the FOH person using this Mackie is in the crowd and the wireless goes down? How long before he/she regains control (ie: runs back to the board, docks the iPad, and resyncs). Even in small clubs, this is a problem what your headliner is about to start and everything is still muted...


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## museav (Jan 27, 2012)

avkid said:


> Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
> Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.




chausman said:


> But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.


In the marketing literature on Mackie's site they say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel, so you won’t need to set up additional racks of outboard gear. With just the touch of a ﬁnger, you have total control over 4-band EQ, compression and gate plug-ins." The use of the term "plug-ins" suggests that it is actually the app and the iPad handling the audio processing and that's a very different situation than the iPad just being a control interface and not actually part of the audio chain.

The marketing also says "With Total Snapshot Recall*, you can now easily save and access sound check settings for multiple bands, complex song mixes, previous mixes from challenging venues, recall scenes for theater productions and more." So they do seem to be envisioning theatrical applications as an intended market, however they provide no information on how the scene recall actually works or if it is at all appropriate for theatrical applications. I'm not even sure if the scenes are stored on the mixer or the iPad, although I would guess the latter.

These are examples of aspects I think it is important to understand more about before purchasing. While I think some of the new mixing products coming out are very innovative products for certain applications, I really hate that manufacturers are marketing products with little or no information other than marketing material long before anyone can actually demo or review an at least close to production product. I hope I'm wrong but I foresee too many people purchasing these mixers based on the marketing only to find them to not be all they thought they would be but also not wanting to admit they jumped the gun.

An example of questionable marketing is the "Install Friendly Features" marketing where it says "The Mackie DL1608 is perfect for installing in venues. With its easy to use Master Fader iPad application it has never been easier to train up new sound engineers. Plus, forget the bulky racks of outboard gear, the powerfully small, low profile design lets you install it just about anywhere." They seem to be suggesting that the DL1608 is especially appropriate for installed applications but then go on to not address anything actually relevant to that. I'm trying to find the "install friendly" aspects but it doesn't appear to be rack mountable, it doesn't have rear panel connectors, it requires a secondary device to operate (not to mention one for which most contractors will not be dealers nor can they warranty). It's not tech rider friendly and I'm not sure about installing a mixer for which one of the primary advantages is letting people walk off with the part that makes it all work. So where are the actual "install friendly" features? That doesn't make it a bad product, it does seem to make it questionable marketing of the product.


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## chausman (Jan 27, 2012)

sk8rsdad said:


> Do apple products crash?
> 
> Actually, I was applying the idea to the DJ market, not theatre, with some dedicated DMX dongle, but hey, your idea could work too. Kinda defeats the portability angle though.


 
iOS crashing itself is unlikely. Third party apps crashing, is sadly common. Tapatalk quits on me all the time.

I was thinking like the iRFR app running at the same time. That's portable.


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## chausman (Jan 27, 2012)

museav said:


> In the marketing literature on Mackie's site they say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel, so you won’t need to set up additional racks of outboard gear. With just the touch of a ﬁnger, you have total control over 4-band EQ, compression and gate plug-ins." The use of the term "plug-ins" suggests that it is actually the app and the iPad handling the audio processing


 
If your right (more then likely), then what's the latency going to be?

Although it is possible to lock the iPad in, that defeats the purpose.

It is cool you can use up to 10 iPads at once, however.


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## avkid (Jan 27, 2012)

SoundTom said:


> I see another potential problem: what happens when the wireless goes down? At my college, we use the M7 iPad app to run monitors, but with a big conference in the building, the wireless has ground to a halt, making the iPad useless.


 Your control network should be separate and secure, not the general use WIFI.


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## Footer (Jan 27, 2012)

We had Asleep at the Wheel in several months ago. They had an M7 running as their monitor console. To mix FOH, the engineer had a tablet running studio manager connected via wifi that also controlled the M7 alongside the monitor engineer. They patched in two drive lines to our PA and that was it. The did give us a split that we patched into our house console just in case something went wrong. According to the guys, they have to use the backup console very rarely. They did have a rather large wifi antenna and were using a private network. Seemed to work for them. These guys use this rig on about 150 stops a year.


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## museav (Jan 28, 2012)

Line 6 also has an apparently very innovative mixer coming out, the StageScape M20d. The physical form factor is pretty unique but more unique is the operation. They have tried to make it where an inexperienced person could plug in the inputs and outputs, define what they are from among numerous preset selections and the mixer does the related setup automatically, down to even watching the input level and automatically adjusting the trim if needed, and creates a pictorial icon on the screen. Touch the icon and you get the controls for the related channel, however instead of the traditional processor controls you get controls that define the sound in lay terms and then adjust multiple parameters based on that. At the same time, you can bypass much of the automation and make manual settings, sometimes with more than one 'layer' of transition from automatic to full manual adjustment.

They have also tried to apply that same concept to the overall system with powered speakers and subwoofers that you link together and that then automatically configure the system based on the use defined.

The pros are that this might be a great approach for those situations where you will have less experienced operators who don't really need to learn how to put together a basic system or mix and don't necessarily have a complex application or need the best mix possible, they just need to do get a decent sound from the system with minimal training or experience. The biggest con I see is that someone who has only worked with such systems would be completely lost when faced with a more traditional system or mixer approach or a problem since they're not really learning the actual what, how and why behind what they're doing.

Seems like a lot of new and innovative small to medium format mixer options coming out over the next 6 months or so, not only bringing digital mixing to lower price points than ever but also introducing dramatically different approaches to the user interface and the operation of the mixer.


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## SoundTom (Jan 28, 2012)

avkid said:


> Your control network should be separate and secure, not the general use WIFI.


 
Just for the record, our set-up does use a separate and secure network, it just relies on the same hardware as the general-use network (so maybe not completely separate ), with the backup plan being another wireless router we just hook up to the back of the board.

I just wanted to raise the point that, like all things, wifi fails at the least opportune time, but with the only control surface being in the op's hand far from the actual board, the back-up plan is running for the base-station to dock. This contrasts with the use of remote apps for standard control surface boards, where if the wifi goes down, presumably a person near the board would be able to kinda-sorta make things not fail while the op is running back from where-ever he/she was.

Also, I have not been able to find out if the DL1608 comes with an iPad or not, because AFAIK the website never actually says one way or the other. Has anybody been able to find an answer to this?


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## museav (Jan 29, 2012)

SoundTom said:


> Also, I have not been able to find out if the DL1608 comes with an iPad or not, because AFAIK the website never actually says one way or the other. Has anybody been able to find an answer to this?


The Mackie information says "With the Mackie DL1608’s seamless wired to wireless mixing capabilities, you can mix in real time from anywhere in the venue on your iPad®.*", so the "your iPad®" comment makes me think they mean you supply the iPad (the asterisk relates to a footnote that you have to supply a wireless Wi-Fi router connected to the DL1608 in order to enable any wireless functionality). It was also pointed out elsewhere that the contest Mackie is having is giving away a DL1608 along with an iPad, which also seems to suggest the iPad is not included as part of the mixer. One might assume that a download of the mixer app does come with the mixer, however you might need to purchase additional copies if you use multiple iPads. But I agree that none of this is clearly addressed in any of the information I've seen released.

The "plug-ins" and scene recall referenced for the DL1608 are other examples of where more detail would be nice. They say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel..." so they may mean that there is integrated processing in the mixer itself that you can 'plug in' for the channels and not that you can use third party audio processing plug-ins.

The marketing also references "Total Snapshot Recall" which suggests that every setting other than the preamp trim/gain is saved and this screen shot, http://www.mackie.com/products/dl1608/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/LOUD_iPad_HiRes3_snapshot.jpg, provides more information. It seems that you apparently can 'safe' channels and some parameters during recall, but maybe cannot do things like not saving or recalling the EQ. They also do not note how long a recall takes or what happens to the audio during that time. And in my mind, the tightly placed and adjacent "Recall" and "Replace" buttons are not a good idea for live sound or theater applications.

I have numerous other question about the DL1608 that do not seem to be answered in any of the information provided to date, but it apparently is 4 months or more until the mixer will actually be released so I guess a lot could change in that time, which may be one reason to avoid offering too much detail.


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## LXPlot (Jan 29, 2012)

chausman said:


> iOS crashing itself is unlikely. Third party apps crashing, is sadly common. Tapatalk quits on me all the time.
> 
> I was thinking like the iRFR app running at the same time. That's portable.


 
Yes, it is very hard to crash iOS without self-modifying it or using code written by a third party. I've seen it happen, but rarely...however, OS X Lion has had some problems as of late where it randomly disconnects from from WIFI. I don't know whether this applies to the latest version of iOS, but it would be a very bad thing to happen live.


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## cpf (Jan 29, 2012)

I assume the audio processing happens entirely on the physical console, with the iPad acting as a control surface. Can't imagine that streaming howevermany channels of audio back and forth to an iPad over wifi would ever work reliably, not to mention the horrendous delay it would introduce. This way, if the iPad drops out, the mix will keep going uninterrupted.


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## bishopthomas (Jan 29, 2012)

Looks cool to me. It's a tiny package for 16 channels of mic inputs. It's hard to see the physical layout of the hardware, the macro shots and "action pics" with the hands in it are annoying. The video looks like it might be entertaining on acid but definitely not helpful. I have to return something to Guitar Center tomorrow, if they have one in stock I might just get it to play around with it. I like the ability to bring in audio from any iPad music app and not take up a physical channel. It would have been so simple, though, for them to get a wireless router in there. I wish they could have made that happen and prevent users from carrying around another piece of hardware.


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## bishopthomas (Jan 29, 2012)

Well, apparently it's not out yet, so I won't be getting one tomorrow. I probably still will, though, as soon as it's actually released. I have a few gigs coming up this summer where I'll need at least 6-10 small mixers at once for various locations. This would be great for that. Take a look at this thread on Gearslutz for some hands on comments:

DL1608 Mackie Live Mixer with iPad control - Gearslutz.com

Edit: JUNE release? That does me absolutely no good...


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## rsmentele (Jan 30, 2012)

When given an overview of the product a couple of weeks ago, the rep informed us that the product WILL NOT include an iPad, one has to be purchased separately.


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## museav (Jan 30, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> Well, apparently it's not out yet, so I won't be getting one tomorrow. I probably still will, though, as soon as it's actually released. I have a few gigs coming up this summer where I'll need at least 6-10 small mixers at once for various locations. This would be great for that. Take a look at this thread on Gearslutz for some hands on comments:
> 
> DL1608 Mackie Live Mixer with iPad control - Gearslutz.com
> 
> Edit: JUNE release? That does me absolutely no good...


Interestingly, the one post in that thread with all the information hit on a topic I had started to post earlier and didn't. It's interesting that a headphone connection and volume control are part of even the minimalist Mackie DL1608 chassis, yet unless you incorporate a third-party wireless IEM system I have yet to find a wireless mixing solution that addresses audio monitoring. It may just be me, but I tend to often use headphones or monitors for PFL, cueing, etc.

Slightly related, I've seen FOH positions with remote monitoring and control of wireless, amps, DSP, etc. that all require running related software an typically a screen and interface separate from those for mixing. Unless you can somehow have all that with you that seems to also potentially also limit the practicality of wireless mixing.

While it is great to be able to setup monitors from the stage or go out into a room to tweak the mix while walking around, mixing often involves more than just controlling the mixer and those aspects are why I sometimes cringe a bit when I see people apparently thinking they're going to stick a mixer back in some closet or not easily accessible location and always mix wirelessly.


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## bishopthomas (Jan 30, 2012)

That's really not what it's for. I don't see a need to be changing crossover points and such in the middle of a show, that's typically done during system tech time before the show. Besides, I have used my computer/tablet for running both Studio Manager and System Architect (or QSControl depending on system) with much success. Now, whether or not you can exit the Mackie app on the iPad, open a new app, then return to the mixer remains to be seen. But again, that's not really what it's for (in my opinion). My typical use of wireless mixing is A) ringing out monitors on solo gigs and B) corporate events where the mixer HAS to be in a hidden location. Only a handful of times have I mixed entire shows on a computer. It's possible but I prefer to have a physical console. One gig we did the client DID NOT ALLOW us to bring the surface and we controlled the iLive stagebox strictly from an iPad. Scary, but when a client says they want it a certain way you have to do your best to accommodate.

I agree about the monitoring situation. That's always one thing I miss when mixing wirelessly. And since the iPad has a headphone jack RIGHT THERE it's frustrating that it cannot be used.


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## museav (Feb 1, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> My typical use of wireless mixing is A) ringing out monitors on solo gigs and B) corporate events where the mixer HAS to be in a hidden location. Only a handful of times have I mixed entire shows on a computer. It's possible but I prefer to have a physical console. One gig we did the client DID NOT ALLOW us to bring the surface and we controlled the iLive stagebox strictly from an iPad. Scary, but when a client says they want it a certain way you have to do your best to accommodate.


I have a university client that routinely uses wireless mixing of their iLive system for lectures, panel discussions, etc. in their venue, the iLive work surface isn't even connected to the system except for events that require it. They also have a wall mounted PL remote at the stage they can use for simple events, those programmable remotes are something I wish more digital consoles offered as I find them very handy in multipurpose venues.

FWIW, just received the latest Mackie pricing and the DL1608 mixer is shown at $1249.99 MSRP and $999.99 MAP. Pretty sure that does not include the iPad.


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## venuetech (Aug 16, 2012)

Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?


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## themuzicman (Aug 17, 2012)

venuetech said:


> Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?




It'll be obsolete in a few weeks if Apple updates the dock connector like rumor suggests!


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## museav (Aug 17, 2012)

venuetech said:


> Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?


Not the type of the product that was out and about for hands on demos, but I just received an e-mail that the first production runs have shipped from the "North American", which apparently means Mexico, factory so you should start seeing more hands-on reviews. The e-mail noted that the first few shipments are expected to be taken up by existing pre-orders, so it may take a few shipments before dealers have any in stock.

I think that much of the potential market for the DL1608 may be exemplified by the already existing review on Sweetwater's site that is dated April 23, 2012 with the comment "this is the little best mixer in market: i want it!", indicating it received a five star review from someone who knows it is the best four months before it was even available. The marketing folks at Mackie and LOUD should be congratulating themselves.


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## museav (Aug 17, 2012)

themuzicman said:


> It'll be obsolete in a few weeks if Apple updates the dock connector like rumor suggests!


Not totally obsolete, just not able to be used with the iPad docked.

This has always been one of my concerns with integrating rapidly obsolete, commodity consumer technology into professional and commercial applications as the consumer technology is greatly predicated on a useful life cycle that is much shorter than is likely to be accepted for the related professional and commercial systems and components. If the new consumer devices and technology remain sufficiently backward compatible that can l work, but if not it creates a situation that is not easily resolved.


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## gafftaper (Dec 19, 2012)

I just got my hands on a DL 1608 tonight at my local dealer. I was very impressed. No it's not going out on the next U2 tour, but I can see it being really useful in small clubs, bands, churches, and maybe for small theater groups. The price is amazing considering all they packed in it. 

The transfer from wired to wifi control was seamless. The music being played didn't skip at all while we slid the iPad in and out of the dock. I found this really impressive. From what I was told by the dealer (who didn't seem to be 100% sure) the iPad is not doing any of the processing. It's simply a control surface. I believe it does the actual saving of presets, but the processing is onboard the 1608.

To me I think the most exciting idea is using it for a monitor mix instead of something like Aviom. The 1608 can handle up to 10 iPads all connected to it at the same time. You can give each iPad permission to use some features while locking it out of other features. Giving you the ability to hand the drummer an iPad and he'll have complete control over the mix in Aux 4, but be locked out of everything else. That's pretty cool. 

I can also see it being an interesting solution for something like a bar Or maybe a banquet room with a couple of different audio sources to adjust and no technician on duty. Just pass around the iPad with everything locked down except a few limited features. 

I'm looking forward to see if they expand the line. A 24 or 32 channel version with a few added pro-features could be a really powerful solution at a good price for a lot of venues.


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## museav (Dec 20, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> To me I think the most exciting idea is using it for a monitor mix instead of something like Aviom. The 1608 can handle up to 10 iPads all connected to it at the same time. You can give each iPad permission to use some features while locking it out of other features. Giving you the ability to hand the drummer an iPad and he'll have complete control over the mix in Aux 4, but be locked out of everything else. That's pretty cool.


Thanks for the review! I've read some from other users and it is interetsing to see how the comments vary.

The iPad as a controller with the ability to limit access noted is very nice but since this seems to often be misunderstood, it should be noted that Aviom, HearBack, Roland, Behringer, MyMix, etc. personal mix systems address both remote control and the related audio distribution while current iPad or tablet based personal mixing addresses only the control aspect and not the audio, which then has to be addressed separately. Perhaps not an issue if you are doing personal mixing for floor monitors but likely relevant if you are looking at IEMs.

One complaint I have heard from DL1608 users is that the aux send pre/post switching only affects the aux signals being before or after the fader and that all aux sends are always post all of the channel processing (gate, compressor and EQ) so there is no way to get a signal without all of the channel processing. I hope they change that and allow you to select the aux sends from several points in the signal chain as you do not necessarily want a processed signal for monitors, recording, etc.


gafftaper said:


> I can also see it being an interesting solution for something like a bar Or maybe a banquet room with a couple of different audio sources to adjust and no technician on duty. Just pass around the iPad with everything locked down except a few limited features.


Having watched people drop their iPads on the floor or parking lot and having seen people walk off without their iPad or inadvertently take someone else's, an iPad seems susceptible to being lost, damaged, etc. so I would be wary of handing an iPad that is required for the mixer to function to people unless I had a backup on hand and the parties using it agreed to immediately replace the iPad should anything happen to it while in their possession. The Mackie video with the drugged out hippie may be cool but realistically, would you hand the iPad required for your mixer to work to someone like that? And how would you like to be the BE for the next act?

In the scenarios noted I'd also be wary of not having at least a backup wired mixing option, even if that is the mixer with an iPad locked in it. Something that would still be usable should a wireless controller or the wireless network develop issues.


gafftaper said:


> I'm looking forward to see if they expand the line. A 24 or 32 channel version with a few added pro-features could be a really powerful solution at a good price for a lot of venues.


I think the iPad as the only user interface concept gets less practical with greater channel counts and added features. And since not everyone may be comfortable mixing with a tablet device I am also hesitant to specify a mixer that has no physical controls for venues with multiple users.

In general, I see remote iPad mixing as a potentially very beneficial added functionality for mixers but I am not yet sold on iPad based mixers for any applications other than personal use.


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## bishopthomas (Dec 21, 2012)

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be handing over my iPad(s) to musicians any time soon. However, most these days have their own, and many are using them on stage already in place of a music stand with music/lyrics.

I agree that 16 channels is about the limit on what I would feel comfortable with during a live situation. If I buy one of these mixers it will be for simple gigs where I just need to throw up a few mics and do not want (or am not able) to run a snake.


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## gafftaper (Dec 22, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be handing over my iPad(s) to musicians any time soon. However, most these days have their own, and many are using them on stage already in place of a music stand with music/lyrics.
> 
> I agree that 16 channels is about the limit on what I would feel comfortable with during a live situation. If I buy one of these mixers it will be for simple gigs where I just need to throw up a few mics and do not want (or am not able) to run a snake.



I was thinking for either a band or a church situation that so many people have their own iPads that they could literally bring their own control surface to control their own monitor mix. Just install the software on Jim's iPad and when he plays drums for the church band he can control his own mix. 

The 16 channel limit is an interesting point. With the current setup you can fit 8 faders on screen at a time. Then you have to side swipe to access the other faders. That's a strong limitation. However, that problem goes away if you are using pre-recorded scenes. I can see a 24 or 32 channel version being very useful for a theater group with a skilled technician who wants to pre-set everything into scenes. Just tap your way through the show and make minor tweaks. That's easily done on an iPad. 

As for the iPad getting lost, there is a bracket you can use to screw it into place on the console, although that kind of defeats the point of having an iPad. Unless you buy two and just plan to have one in place and one for mobile mixing (interesting thought). 

In the end it's another one of those budget issues we talk about a lot here. Sure we would all love a Presonus Studiolive with it's iPad interface but we can't all afford that. For some this will give them a lot of power at a very reasonable price. However because of that price there are some big limitations that must be considered. 

The more I think about it the more I would want a second iPad on the job at all times.


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## tk2k (Dec 23, 2012)

So seeing as the Apple Dock connector is being phased out, can you swap it for a Lightning port? What about in 9 months when you can no longer buy and iPad with a dock connector, or the form factor changes? Sure you can argue its only a $1k console so bla-bla-bla, but im sure many groups that might consider this product had their last mixer more than 2 or 3 years.


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## cpf (Dec 23, 2012)

You can get an adaptor, though it may or may not allow the iPad to dock securely (haven't scrutinized the product photos). 

iPads last pretty long if cared for, but even then I doubt they'll have the longevity of some analog boards I've used.


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## museav (Dec 28, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> I was thinking for either a band or a church situation that so many people have their own iPads that they could literally bring their own control surface to control their own monitor mix. Just install the software on Jim's iPad and when he plays drums for the church band he can control his own mix.


Always looking for the potential "what ifs" but what if Jim forgets his iPad, it is broken or he gets a new one and has not downloaded the app? Or what if Jim is sick or got hit by a bus and someone else has to fill in? This is an example of where I see the aspect of personal devices versus integral components of a system potentially being at odds and generally feel that it may be acceptable to rely on personal devices for some functions related to specific individuals but not necessarily where required to have a functioning system.


gafftaper said:


> As for the iPad getting lost, there is a bracket you can use to screw it into place on the console, although that kind of defeats the point of having an iPad. Unless you buy two and just plan to have one in place and one for mobile mixing (interesting thought).


I don't think it defeats the purpose at all as the DL1608 essentially uses the iPad as the user interface and it being able to be wireless while being advantageous for some uses is really a secondary aspect. In some ways it is a very downscaled version of the concept used for some large format digital mixers where you have a central processor 'rack' and a separate work surface but in this case the work surface is an iPad. Except for functions like ringing out monitors, I favor always having a work surface at the mixer otherwise you might face situations such as a less skilled operator overdriving a system, having feedback issues or just doing a poor job and not being able to do much about it until you can find them and get the iPad out of their hands.


gafftaper said:


> In the end it's another one of those budget issues we talk about a lot here. Sure we would all love a Presonus Studiolive with it's iPad interface but we can't all afford that. For some this will give them a lot of power at a very reasonable price. However because of that price there are some big limitations that must be considered.


+1, there are situation where something like the DL1608 might be a great fit and others where it might be a rather poor option. I am not sure that much of the target market for such products will understand that and the manufacturers probably aren't going to suggest anything other than it being the best option for everyone (unless they could instead sell you to a more profitable alternative they offer).


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