# High School Recording Outfit



## ibmcclain (Mar 8, 2012)

My High School is looking at purchasing equipment for a video recording system, composed of a pan/ tilt camera able to record a 70ft wide stage from around 75 ft away, and a way to record the video. We have around $1000 to spend by march 15th on the first phase of the project, which is probably a way to record the video. Any suggestions? I'm a lighting guy solely so I know NOTHING about video recording but as the school TD it falls on me to learn, and quickly.


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## Edrick (Mar 8, 2012)

Do you actually want to be able to see a clear picture? Any reliable quality PTZ camera that can be remotely control is easily 3k and up for hardware alone.

Are you looking for something that will be walk mounted and remotely controlled?


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## ruinexplorer (Mar 9, 2012)

We understand the expediency in the matter, but we will need more details. It sounds as if you have $1K to spend on the recording portion alone. Do you know what quality and format you plan on recording? Do you know what type of camera you are planning on getting or what type of output you wish it to have? How do you intend to get audio to the video, or will that be necessary?

If you are looking strictly for archival purposes, you may want a system that records directly into a digital storage, allowing for quick editing. Then again, you could go directly to disc DVD/Blu-ray recorder.


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## cpf (Mar 9, 2012)

Sure hope you have more than $1k for the camera! If this $1000 is just for the recording, your options are pretty open: a DVD recorder, a PC and capture card/FW hookup, a VCR... It really depends on what you're doing with this. 

If its just archival, you'll probably want a DVD recorder for the cheap media, simple operation, and no-fuss storage (depending on the expected lifetime...). If it's for further editing/production, direct-to-disk on a PC is the way to go.


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## ibmcclain (Mar 9, 2012)

The 1k is just for recording and so this is what we're hoping for. A PTZ camera that we can remotely operate from our booth, the camera will be mounted in the back of the house, we'd like a pretty decent picture. The purpose is to be able to record all of the orchestra and band all state, and tri county events that take place in our auditorium. We'd also like eventually to be able to put audio into those recordings too. I think the preferred method would be something PC or software based, and have a DVD burner attached to that. Right now we're looking at solely getting the PC and Software, and the DVD burner if we need one. So we will have hopefully 5k for the camera, mounting, and controller, but right now some kind of money freed up in the budget and the supervisor said she had "$1000 to get the project moving".


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## museav (Mar 9, 2012)

ibmcclain said:


> The 1k is just for recording and so this is what we're hoping for. A PTZ camera that we can remotely operate from our booth, the camera will be mounted in the back of the house, we'd like a pretty decent picture. The purpose is to be able to record all of the orchestra and band all state, and tri county events that take place in our auditorium. We'd also like eventually to be able to put audio into those recordings too. I think the preferred method would be something PC or software based, and have a DVD burner attached to that. Right now we're looking at solely getting the PC and Software, and the DVD burner if we need one. So we will have hopefully 5k for the camera, mounting, and controller, but right now some kind of money freed up in the budget and the supervisor said she had "$1000 to get the project moving".


The problem is that you can't really approach it as a bunch of pieces you hope or assume will eventually work together, you have to first develop some sort of overall concept and then get components that work within that overall concept. For example, the recording aspect will have to be compatible with whether the camera is composite video, component video, SD-SDI, HD-SDI, or whatever output.

Another aspect to consider is rights. Maybe the school already has a license that covers this but performing something and recording it are two different rights, so you probably want to make sure you have that covered or the funds may be best served by being spent on addressing the related rights before you put any equipment in place.


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## ibmcclain (Mar 9, 2012)

museav said:


> Another aspect to consider is rights. Maybe the school already has a license that covers this but performing something and recording it are two different rights, so you probably want to make sure you have that covered or the funds may be best served by being spent on addressing the related rights before you put any equipment in place.



Rights is another beast altogether that doesn't concern me at all. Whether we're allowed to record something or not doesn't interfere with the fact that the Board wants us to put a camera in the auditorium to record stuff that happens on the stage and we have to spend 1k by March 15th on something to record with. Some models we're looking at for camera are the Sony EVIH100V or if funding comes up sort and we have to go standard definition we'd like something like the EVID90. But first we'd probably need something to record the video from it too. Something software based might be nice, where we could just get a PC card to interface the camera signal, and we could later add in audio recording too.


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## SHARYNF (Mar 10, 2012)

I'd suggest getting one of the Panasonic DVD recorders with the Hard Disk option, look at 250963937927 on Ebay. Now with this you can ONLY record Standard Definition. If you need HD, then the Hyperdeck from BlackMagic Designs is an option it can take HDMI and hd-SDI in and you add a SSD's for storage Blackmagic Design: HyperDeck Shuttle

NOTE the 395 price is with out SSD but woudl still fit your budget, Also there is a Shuttle 1 that does not support the latest compression system, these are sort of on fire sale these days Sometimes they are listed sd SE01 for series one, they are NOT upgradable, so for longer term use the series 2 would probably be the way to go


Again it depends on what you want to do longer term

Sharyn 
Sharyn


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## museav (Mar 10, 2012)

ibmcclain said:


> Rights is another beast altogether that doesn't concern me at all. Whether we're allowed to record something or not doesn't interfere with the fact that the Board wants us to put a camera in the auditorium to record stuff that happens on the stage and we have to spend 1k by March 15th on something to record with.


If you know it is an issue and assist in implementing a recording system without saying anything you may be liable if it were to ever become an issue. At least bring the point up to those with whom you are working.


> Some models we're looking at for camera are the Sony EVIH100V or if funding comes up sort and we have to go standard definition we'd like something like the EVID90. But first we'd probably need something to record the video from it too. Something software based might be nice, where we could just get a PC card to interface the camera signal, and we could later add in audio recording too.


If you want to record to computer an Aja Kona LHe Plus card would be nice as it could potentially handle HD/SD-SDI, component video, S-Video and composite video as well as multiple analog audio channels and you should be able to get one just around your $1,000 budget. The BlackMagic DeckLink Studio card is similar and costs less. There are less expensive alternatives but they may limit your options in terms of compatible sources. Keep in mind that cost is just for the card and provided software, the computer and any editing software would be an additional cost.

As you are looking at this think about not just the equipment but also the implementation of everything. That includes installation issues such as it not being just buying a camera but also properly addressing any mount for the camera, the related video and control cabling, power for it and so on.

It also includes practical and operational issues. For example, how do you plan on implementing one camera? Remote controlled pan/tilts are nice but the pan/tilt and zoom, especially on lower cost units, are usually practical more for positioning shots in advance than for movement while live. If you were thinking you were going to zoom from a wide 'beauty shot' to a close-up with a packaged 'robotic' camera you can do so but will need to have fairly low expectations for the production quality. If you could do with a fixed shot and don't need to zoom during use then you may want to look at a fixed camera with a zoom lens.

You'd also need to verify the camera works for the application, for example with a 75' distance to the stage the packaged Panasonic camera you noted could apparently get the entire stage width only if run in 1080 mode with a maximum 44.3' high x 78.75' wide shot, in 720 mode it would apparently be limited to a 28.7' high by 51' wide shot.


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## ibmcclain (Mar 10, 2012)

If we were to get something like a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle, or studio, how would we eventually interface audio? Also how we would we monitor the picture from the camera? Is that where the HDMI out on the Hyperdeck comes in?


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## Edrick (Mar 10, 2012)

The hyper deck in a sense would be overkill. The Studio Switcher also would be if you're just recording one camera. 

Alls you need is some type of capture device that will record into something like final cut or premier.


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## museav (Mar 11, 2012)

Edrick said:


> The hyper deck in a sense would be overkill. The Studio Switcher also would be if you're just recording one camera.
> 
> Alls you need is some type of capture device that will record into something like final cut or premier.


Maybe you are thinking of the BlackMagic ATEM Television Studio, which is a switcher, however the BlackMagic DeckLink Studio is a PCIe capture/ingest card that is compatible with both Final Cut Pro and Premiere Pro, as well Media Composer, Vegas, and so on, although it comes with their own Media Express software that would let you do basic recording and playback.

When you compare total cost and simplicity of operation, if the goal is to simply record something then I'm not clear how the BlackMagic HyperDeck Shuttle would be overkill, although it is limited to SDI and HDMI inputs for both video and audio. This does seem to potentially touch on how you have to factor in the cost of a computer if you went in that direction. If you have to account for much of any cost for a computer, monitor, keyboard, etc. that is provided by or acceptable to the school as well as being appropriate for audio and video recording and perhaps editing then with a $1,000 budget you'd be lucky to have any money left, much left enough for any of the options noted.


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## Edrick (Mar 11, 2012)

As far as I can tell the deck takes SSD which isn't cheap and is more for uncompressed video although it does do some slight compression in one more. Although I could be wrong, also battery operated and made to go directly onto the camera. Seems to me it's more for motion picture or broadcast.

Yeah I was thinking of the studio switcher the PCI card sounds like what he would need.


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## SHARYNF (Mar 12, 2012)

To try to correct some mis conceptions
The Hyperdeck Shuttle, takes HDMI AND SDI input, It does use SSD Sata 2.5 inch drives for storage but the idea is that these can be removed and used directly in a computer. The file format is in QuickTime.
Via HDMI in put it also will record SD

The Shuttle can be powered off "wall wart" or battery There is more expensive version that uses dual SSD drives the Hyperdeck Studio. 
At this point in time most folks consider the HyperDeck shuttle to the the least expensive HD stand alone recording system. 

If you do not need the avid modest compression option on the upgrade these units are now selling for about 175 dollars at B&H 250 gig SSd drives are around 400 dollars

"BlackMagic Design have announced version 2 of their popular HyperDeck Shuttle SSD recorder. It's pretty much the same as version 1, but it adds the option to record not only to uncompressed files, but also to Avid's DNxHD compressed codec. Much like Pro Res, DNxHD boasts much smaller files sizes than uncompressed, but with almost no noticeable difference to the eye.... and considering the cost of SSD drives, that makes the HyperDeck Shuttle a much more attractive proposition."

So for about 600-700 dollars you can get a quality Hd recorder.

NOTE it will NOT record HDCP content, so you cannot feed the output of a BLuRay PLAYER INTO IT
Sharyn


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## Edrick (Mar 12, 2012)

I'm curious as to what the recording space with the compressed format is. That's my biggest thing because they can fill up super fast. That's why I don't think that's a good option for his situation. Unless you're getting hours of record time on one SSD. 

I think he'd be better getting some type of I/O and record right to the editing computer.


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## museav (Mar 12, 2012)

SHARYNF said:


> NOTE it will NOT record HDCP content


Which is typical of digital products in general as creating a digital recording of protected content is what is exactly what the content protection is trying to prevent. The same issue applies to many direct digital conversion (i.e. HDMI to HD-SDI) products while products such as the HDFury products are intended specifically to convert a device's analog input into a HDCP compatible HDMI input rather than to be used to convert the protected HD content to a form that can then be distributed and/or recorded and it is that specific application for which such products are legal.


SHARYNF said:


> so you cannot feed the output of a BLuRay PLAYER INTO IT


Just to clarify, that depends on the player and content. If either the player or content enables HDCP then it will not complete the handshake with the HyperDeck Shuttle and will disable the source, however if neither the player or content request a HDCP handshake, as with many cameras or source devices playing non-protected content, then it should work.


Edrick said:


> I think he'd be better getting some type of I/O and record right to the editing computer.


That may be dictated by the budget, if they have to purchase something that can record with the $1,000 budget then that would probably not cover both a capture card and the associated computer and drives or drive array, in which case something like the HyperDeck Shuttle may be a better option. People often seem to assume that a computer that can serve the purpose will be available without any cost but I have found that this is not always true and for schools, government agencies and corporations I have encountered a variety of different perspectives regarding obtaining computers for similar use and installing 'non-standard' hardware and/or software.


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