# 1984 Original Strand Mini Light Palette



## keywest1226 (May 2, 2011)

Hey everyone,

I have been working on two original Strand Mini Light Palettes for about a year now as part of an independent study for my undergrad. One of them I have in perfect working condition and the other one I'm still fighting with the power supply on it. I'm about to graduate and the one that is not in perfect working condition has been given to me for all of the work i put into the two of them. The one that does work actually has what looks like an aftermarket DMX module installed in it, and it actually works really well. It looks to be something that was designed specifically for the Strand Mini Light Palette. My question is does anyone know if this was an aftermaket install or update of some kind and where I could find one of these if thats even possible. Did strand make them, or was another company making them as an upgrade kit or something of that nature? Any information would be great. If I could find one then I could upgrade the one that is now mine to DMX, which would be wonderful.

Thank you for any help in advance


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## derekleffew (May 2, 2011)

I've never known a MLP or MLP2 to output DMX. Steve Short or Joel Epstein would probably know if there was ever an internal conversion. Contact info is at Service and Repair Vendors - ControlBooth .


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## ptero (May 3, 2011)

The MLPs we had were AMX out, which worked fine for years through an outboard AMX>DMX converter. 
I have no knowledge of internal conversions.


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## STEVETERRY (May 3, 2011)

keywest1226 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> I have been working on two original Strand Mini Light Palettes for about a year now as part of an independent study for my undergrad. One of them I have in perfect working condition and the other one I'm still fighting with the power supply on it. I'm about to graduate and the one that is not in perfect working condition has been given to me for all of the work i put into the two of them. The one that does work actually has what looks like an aftermarket DMX module installed in it, and it actually works really well. It looks to be something that was designed specifically for the Strand Mini Light Palette. My question is does anyone know if this was an aftermaket install or update of some kind and where I could find one of these if thats even possible. Did strand make them, or was another company making them as an upgrade kit or something of that nature? Any information would be great. If I could find one then I could upgrade the one that is now mine to DMX, which would be wonderful.
> 
> Thank you for any help in advance


 
That would be an LP512 module, manufactured by Pthalo Systems for Production Arts, and sold exclusively by PA. It was installed in all the PA and BASH Mini light Palettes, and sold to a number of other users as well. I suppose it is possible that PRG New Jersey might still have one, but it would be a long shot. Pthalo Systems is long gone.

The advantage of the LP 512 was that it pulled digital data directly off the DEC LSI-11 bus to create DMX, it was not a conversion of AMX192. Thus, it got rid of all the annoying instabilities and ground loop problems of AMX192. It was a rock-solid design done by Sean Adkins.

ST


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## jstandfast (May 3, 2011)

STEVETERRY said:


> That would be an LP512 module, manufactured by Pthalo Systems for Production Arts, and sold exclusively by PA." It was installed in all the PA and BASH Mini light Palettes, and sold to a number of other users as well." I suppose it is possible that PRG New Jersey might still have one, but it would be a long shot. Pthalo Systems is long gone.
> 
> The advantage of the LP 512 was that it pulled digital data directly off the DEC LSI-11 bus to create DMX, it was not a conversion of AMX192. Thus, it got rid of all the annoying instabilities and ground loop problems of AMX192. It was a rock-solid design done by Sean Adkins.
> 
> ST



Not the only interesting MLP modification from the New York shops, don't I recall
running an " Executive" Mini Light Palette back in that day ? If my memory is serving,
it was a V6-E stuffed into an MLP case, I seem to remember a funny switch to assign
wheels........


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## STEVETERRY (May 3, 2011)

jstandfast said:


> Not the only interesting MLP modification from the New York shops, don't I recall
> running an " Executive" Mini Light Palette back in that day ? If my memory is serving,
> it was a V6-E stuffed into an MLP case, I seem to remember a funny switch to assign
> wheels........


 
Not the most reliable set of mods! I don't think many were made. That one came out of BASH.

ST


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## keywest1226 (May 3, 2011)

STEVETERRY said:


> That would be an LP512 module, manufactured by Pthalo Systems for Production Arts, and sold exclusively by PA. It was installed in all the PA and BASH Mini light Palettes, and sold to a number of other users as well. I suppose it is possible that PRG New Jersey might still have one, but it would be a long shot. Pthalo Systems is long gone.
> 
> The advantage of the LP 512 was that it pulled digital data directly off the DEC LSI-11 bus to create DMX, it was not a conversion of AMX192. Thus, it got rid of all the annoying instabilities and ground loop problems of AMX192. It was a rock-solid design done by Sean Adkins.
> 
> ST


 
I'm assuming that PRG stands for Production Resource Group? And if I'm correct then is it the office in Secaucus NJ that I would want to contact? Is Production Arts not around anymore?
Also, what was BASH, ive never heard of that before, and what is the V6-E that jstandfast mentioned earlier?

Sorry for all of the questions.


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## mstaylor (May 3, 2011)

PRG has many locations including NJ. Here is a map of their locations. PRG : Search by Location


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## derekleffew (May 3, 2011)

PRG bought BASH Lighting in 1997, I think, and bought PA in 1998. V6E is a software version, the final one for the original Light Palette, IIRC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## keywest1226 (May 3, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> PRG bought BASH Lighting in 1997, I think, and bought PA in 1998. V6E is a software version, the final one for the original Light Palette, IIRC.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
Got, it. Thank you guys. 

Umm, I do have one last question but it would cause someone to be very familiar with the inner workings of the original MLP. In the power source there is a circuit board that is made by Condor and it is a DC converter I think. The actual model number of the part is VGA 420. This is the part that has been giving me all of my issues on the board that doesn't work. I've been slowly switching out circuit parts that I think are the problem, but its taking me awhile. I did do some research and haven't been able to find any new ones that would be in my price range, I did find some sites that have refurbished ones for a couple hundred or that would refurbish mine for a couple hunderd, but id like to avoid that. On ebay, however, I did find a condor power supply model VGA 430 that was only 50 bucks. From what I can see they look absolutely identical, including specs, as far as I know. Can anybody tell me if I would be able to use this as a replacement for the VGA 420? I understand that this is a pretty specific question about outdated hardware, but any help would be appreciated. Otherwise I will continue down the path I'm on.


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## STEVETERRY (May 3, 2011)

keywest1226 said:


> I'm assuming that PRG stands for Production Resource Group? And if I'm correct then is it the office in Secaucus NJ that I would want to contact? Is Production Arts not around anymore?
> Also, what was BASH, ive never heard of that before, and what is the V6-E that jstandfast mentioned earlier?
> 
> Sorry for all of the questions.


 
If you call PRG NJ, ask to speak to Don Pipo, who manages the electronics dept. He will be able to tell you right away if they still have an LP512 card.

ST


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## FMEng (May 4, 2011)

keywest1226 said:


> Got, it. Thank you guys.
> 
> Umm, I do have one last question but it would cause someone to be very familiar with the inner workings of the original MLP. In the power source there is a circuit board that is made by Condor and it is a DC converter I think. The actual model number of the part is VGA 420. This is the part that has been giving me all of my issues on the board that doesn't work. I've been slowly switching out circuit parts that I think are the problem, but its taking me awhile. I did do some research and haven't been able to find any new ones that would be in my price range, I did find some sites that have refurbished ones for a couple hundred or that would refurbish mine for a couple hunderd, but id like to avoid that. On ebay, however, I did find a condor power supply model VGA 430 that was only 50 bucks. From what I can see they look absolutely identical, including specs, as far as I know. Can anybody tell me if I would be able to use this as a replacement for the VGA 420? I understand that this is a pretty specific question about outdated hardware, but any help would be appreciated. Otherwise I will continue down the path I'm on.


 
Replace ALL of the electrolytic capacitors. Power supply failures are almost always caused by heat versus capacitor. Digikey is an excellent source for capacitors.

Failing that, power supplies are reasonably easy to substitute. You just need to know what voltages you need, and then meet or exceed the current rating. Many switching supplies are standard form factors. Measure the voltages on the working console to identify what the dead one is. If I had to guess, I'd say the 420 is a 20 Watt model and the 430 is a 30 Watt model, so it very well might fit.


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## derekleffew (May 4, 2011)

jstandfast said:


> Not the only interesting MLP modification from the New York shops, don't I recall
> running an " Executive" Mini Light Palette back in that day ? ...


There was also the "Pro Palette" with external monitors for easier touring. Don't know if it came from Strand-Century or BASH; never saw one, only the ads for it.


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## SteveB (May 4, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> There was also the "Pro Palette" with external monitors for easier touring. Don't know if it came from Strand-Century or BASH; never saw one, only the ads for it.


 
I believe that was a Production Arts conversion. Steve Terry can expand, but it was designed to take the guts of the Light Palette desk, which was a pain to box for touring (being 4ft long x 3ft high and 3ft deep at 80lbs or so) and make it into a package with facepanel, external monitors and processor, all able to break down into components that would fit in easy-to-move road cases. 

I recall that Strand had come out at the time with a "Mini Palette", which was a single monitor version of the Light Palette and that for whatever reasons, was nowhere near as reliable as the bigger brother. Pro Palette was also prior to the Strand Mini-Light Palette, which replaced Mini Palette (if memory serves). 

Pro Arts at the time, was a (the) pioneer in developing packages for Broadway and Bus and Truck tours that could be installed in significantly less time then the multi-day load-in's of older systems. 10ft. pre-hung lamp bars with multi-cable, welded aluminum side towers with pre-hung units, all were part of this drive for efficiency. Steve has written here prior of the issues Pro Arts had with the Colortran Prestige console, that was one of the consoles designed for this market. Other companies stepped up to the plate with new products, Expression being typical. \

There's some good pictures of some of this stuff here:
The Lighting Console Gallery Photo Gallery by Paul Pelletier at pbase.com


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## keywest1226 (May 4, 2011)

Wow, well Thank you guys that has been a lot of really good information for me. If you guys still want to keep posting and talking about this stuff, I would love to read it. I've become pretty fascinated with this older technology and where it came from through my adventures with these two boards. So, from here on out, this thread can go where ever you guys want to take it. I know thats not how these threads are really suppossed to work, but I would love to know what you guys know. And as I continue to work on my board, I will keep you guys posted on how its going. It probably wont be a little while before I get back to it though considering its finals week right now, but I am determined to get it working and fixed up.

Oh, and thank you Steve B. I have checked out that lighting gallery before. It's a pretty wonderful collection of lighting consoles. It was really one of the only few places online that I was able to find any information on the MLP when I first started working on these boards. There is just very little information out there on the internet about the MLP, so having this resource has been wonderful to me. That, and I've made some connections with the guys at Century Lighting, who have been extremely helpful.


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## jstandfast (May 4, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> There was also the "Pro Palette" with external monitors for easier touring. Don't know if it came from Strand-Century or BASH; never saw one, only the ads for it.


 
That was a legit Strand product, for about twenty minutes it seemed. I think I only saw two of them, ever; and one of them was my Reps demo unit. I they ran V-7 software,
and LP-2 picked up with V-8 ?


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## STEVETERRY (May 4, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> There was also the "Pro Palette" with external monitors for easier touring. Don't know if it came from Strand-Century or BASH; never saw one, only the ads for it.


 
The Pro Palette was made by Strand, to a Production Arts specification.

It was a V6E Light Palette split into a tower and a separate table-top front panel. 

It made a Full Light Palette suitable for touring.

Viewed from 2011, it was a bit of a hack, lacking much engineering elegance.

ST


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## SteveB (May 4, 2011)

STEVETERRY said:


> The Pro Palette was made by Strand, to a Production Arts specification.
> 
> It was a V6E Light Palette split into a tower and a separate table-top front panel.
> 
> ...



To paraphrase:

"Computer ?. COMPUTER ?"

"Why don't you try using the microphone Mr. Scott".

(Talking into the mouse), "Computer, COMPUTER ?".

"Perhaps you should use the keyboard".

"Oh a keyboard. How quaint". 

Seems relevant.


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## waynehoskins (May 6, 2011)

"Hello computer?" -- That's one of my favorite scenes.

I have a MLP as well that seems to basically work. Disk drive's bad, but it seems to generally work. It lives on my kitchen counter.

The Pro Palette sounds like, conceptually, a predecessor to the LP90, at least as far as being an electronics tower with a separate control surface and monitors.

Fascinating stuff. I didn't know about the LP-512 card, but I had thought about stuffing a Response converter inside the MLP to get DMX out -- never mind that even the Mini is a bit bulky and heavy to travel these days.


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## Les (Feb 25, 2012)

*Strand Mini Light Palette*

I have a friend who has two of these 1984 Strand Mini Palettes in storage. He's interested in selling one; he mentioned maybe asking a couple hundred (comes with dust cover, power cord and manual). He said it's in perfect working condition, but I doubt it has been powered up in several years. I don't have an immediate use for this thing, but I am considering making an offer. What do you think a fair offer would be?


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## SteveB (Feb 25, 2012)

*re: Strand Mini Light Palette*

Somebody at ETC would know who's collecting the vintage consoles, Fred started a collection a few years back. Possibly they want it?


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## STEVETERRY (Feb 25, 2012)

*re: Strand Mini Light Palette*


Les said:


> I have a friend who has two of these 1984 Strand Mini Palettes in storage. He's interested in selling one; he mentioned maybe asking a couple hundred (comes with dust cover, power cord and manual). He said it's in perfect working condition, but I doubt it has been powered up in several years. I don't have an immediate use for this thing, but I am considering making an offer. What do you think a fair offer would be?



That is not a Mini-Palette (undoubtedly the worst console ever produced by Strand)--it is a Mini Light Palette.

If it has a Production Arts LP-512 DMX-512 card in it , it could be useful.

I would offer $250 with the LP512, and pass if it does not have that card.

ST


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## Les (Feb 25, 2012)

*re: Strand Mini Light Palette*

Thanks Steve. I don't think it has the DMX card, judging by the connectors on the back. I think I'll hold out for something more modern, seeing as I have a lot of old toys already (not to mention an EDI TCC2-12T on the way)!


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## zmb (Feb 25, 2012)

*re: Strand Mini Light Palette*

I think that giant handle is best part of it, looks much more imporant than all the smalll faders on a modern board.


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## Les (Feb 25, 2012)

*Re: Strand Mini Light Palette*

My thoughts exactly. I love that. Makes you feel like you're flying a plane!


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