# Stage Weights



## choirgirl

Does anyone know where I can purchase stage weights? I need someone that will ship to Utah. Thanks! Also, how much should I expect to pay for them?


----------



## thatactorguy

icewolf08 is in SLC and could probably help you with local sources...


----------



## derekleffew

choirgirl said:


> Does anyone know where I can purchase stage weights? I need someone that will ship to Utah. Thanks! Also, how much should I expect to pay for them?


ANY manufacturer of stage rigging equipment WILL ship to Utah. After all, you, as the purchaser, are the one paying the freight charges. Which will, in all likelihood, be more than the cost of the materials. If these are to be used with a counterweight fly system, they need to come from the same manufacturer as the arbor, as there is no standardization.


----------



## Soxred93

derekleffew said:


> Which will, in all likelihood, be more than the cost of the materials.



I'm wondering how much Flat-Rate shipping will cost for shipping weights...


----------



## Footer

I have seen some film dollies that ship with what are basically carcasses of a weight. You have to take them to a shop and get them filled with lead. Call your arbor manufacture and see how they can get them to you. Its not going to be cheap, but if you need them... you need them.


----------



## Van

The other way is to take one of your existing weights to a local steel fabricator. Here in PDX I use Service Steel. They can cut stage weights for you from 2-3" stock according to the specifications of the original installer. Upside of this is you save a ton on shipping. Downside is you have to settle for the cutting ability of your local steel fabricator. If they have Plasma or laser cutters < which they should > you'll get perfectly smooth, lovely weights. If they have torches you weights will be jaggedy and icky. Rememer that if you want a heavier weight you need to make sure they cut it from thicker stock as you don't want to add mass by making the weight wider or it might hang on it's neighboring arbors, and that is bad.
As a last word of caution be sure you do not overload your arbors. Your original installers should have equipped you with enough weight to load every arbor to it's maximum. I know that somehow even stage weights have an ability to walk off, but please do not exceed the OEM specifications of your rig. 

PS Steel prices are fluctuating wildly but right now seems to be a good time to buy steel just don't be too shocked at the price they quote.


----------



## icewolf08

choirgirl said:


> Does anyone know where I can purchase stage weights? I need someone that will ship to Utah. Thanks! Also, how much should I expect to pay for them?




thatactorguy said:


> icewolf08 is in SLC and could probably help you with local sources...



I would suggest giving Oasis Stage Werks a call. That is who we go through for rigging supplies. I know that they deal in rigging systems and should be able to get you weight.

That aside, hi from another SLC local! If there is ever any local help you need, don't hesitate to get in touch.


----------



## FatherMurphy

A few thoughts - the rigging manufacturer we are dealers for only sells counterweights in 1,000 lb increments (although I think you can mix 1" and 2" weights within that, irrc), and the final cost is somewhere in the $1.50 to $2 per lb range, not counting shipping. Getting weight cut locally saves both freight and allows you to customize the amount you're buying. Many manufacturers flame cut the bricks from sheet steel, how jagged the edges are is a function of how well they dial in the torch. Cutting the bricks from bar stock and milling the notches gives a smooth finish, and water jet cutting is also an option. Bricks used to be cast iron, but cut steel is slightly denser, stronger, and easier to work with given today's manufacturing methods.

Taking a brick to the machine shop is the easiest option. If you have to measure the arbor rod diameters and center-center spacing for them to draw and build, make sure they cut things a bit bigger, so you have some clearance to work with. Weights that wedge at a diagonal inside the arbor are no fun at all.

Most new installations I've worked on have supplied somewhere between 65 and 80% of full arbor capacity as the amount of counterweight, under the assumption that since you'll almost never load everything to full, why pay for and store the extra bricks?

One thing to avoid is trying to weight the lineset with anything other than counterweight bricks. Over the years I've seen everything from sandbags to manhole covers tied to arbors to get a little more weight into the equation, but all you do is risk a tangle overhead, or damage and danger from overloading the rest of the components of a lineset.


----------



## choirgirl

Thanks everyone! I guess I should've been more specific. I want a couple of weights to sit on pieces of set to balance them. We, unfortunately, have an open theater without any curtains, flys, booms, etc. at all. Everything is out in the open for the audience to see, so we have to always build freestanding scenery. I want to build u-shaped buildings that roll (3 sided exterior, then interior) and I want a couple of weights inside of them to help them be stable for the height. In the show I was in this summer, the director used some leftover stage weights, so I want to try and do the same. Does this make any sense? A big shout out thanks to my new friend from Utah!


----------



## Van

That makes complete sense and while you could go out using the responses that I and FatherMurphy referenced you might save yourself a tone of time and money by finding a local building materials recycler ad buying some used sash weights. these tend to be 1.5 - 2" in diameter and 8 - 16" in length. They fit nicely into pockets that you can build right onto the scenery.I use them all the time when counter balancing scenic pieces as I do not have a fly system at all.


----------



## choirgirl

Great idea, that sounds like something I could use!


----------



## jwl868

Another alternative for weights to stabilize flats and sets are barbell weights. The plastic versions don't clang. You can tie two together with a short length of rope and place it over the bottom horizontal board of a brace. The rope makes them easy to handle and move.

Joe


----------



## Tex

choirgirl said:


> Great idea, that sounds like something I could use!


 I've also seen weights made from inner tube. Cut an inner tube into two or four pieces. Take one of those pieces and sandwich one end between two short pieces of 1x4 and screw them together. Fill the tube with sand and do the sandwich trick on the other end. It should weigh about 30 to 40 lbs. and is curved so it will fit over a jack.


----------



## FatherMurphy

I'd go with sandbags of some sort for this, too. One possibility (instead of loose bags) is to build a box near the bottom of the scenery, line it with plastic, and fill that with sand, or possibly even scrap metal or junk hardware. If it was a long term show, mixing and pouring a bag or two of cement would a no-mess, no noise option, but not ideal for a short run. Some people like lead shot for this sort of thing. Simply hanging the tube-of-sand sold at a lumberyard on the set piece would be a leak waiting to happen, so the plywood box, innertube trick mentioned above, or a traditional canvas bag would be worth the effort.


----------



## Footer

For a show I did this summer we had 20' tall walls that had to role with a very small footprint. We went to a local steel supplier and picked up some steel cylinders to use as counterweight. I can't recall what we paid, but it was not too bad. I will dig up some pictures at work tomorrow. 

Overall though, just call a steel yard and tell them you want something heavy and easy to lift/move and easy to store.


----------



## epimetheus

FatherMurphy said:


> A few thoughts - the rigging manufacturer we are dealers for only sells counterweights in 1,000 lb increments (although I think you can mix 1" and 2" weights within that, irrc), and the final cost is somewhere in the $1.50 to $2 per lb range, not counting shipping. Getting weight cut locally saves both freight and allows you to customize the amount you're buying. Many manufacturers flame cut the bricks from sheet steel, how jagged the edges are is a function of how well they dial in the torch. Cutting the bricks from bar stock and milling the notches gives a smooth finish, and water jet cutting is also an option. Bricks used to be cast iron, but cut steel is slightly denser, stronger, and easier to work with given today's manufacturing methods.
> 
> Taking a brick to the machine shop is the easiest option. If you have to measure the arbor rod diameters and center-center spacing for them to draw and build, make sure they cut things a bit bigger, so you have some clearance to work with. Weights that wedge at a diagonal inside the arbor are no fun at all.
> 
> Most new installations I've worked on have supplied somewhere between 65 and 80% of full arbor capacity as the amount of counterweight, under the assumption that since you'll almost never load everything to full, why pay for and store the extra bricks?
> 
> One thing to avoid is trying to weight the lineset with anything other than counterweight bricks. Over the years I've seen everything from sandbags to manhole covers tied to arbors to get a little more weight into the equation, but all you do is risk a tangle overhead, or damage and danger from overloading the rest of the components of a lineset.



OT, but manhole covers? Really? Wow!:shock:


----------



## 2mojo2

Is there some reason why sandbags would not suit your purpose?
You can buy well made bags in different sizes, have them shipped empty, and fill them with clean builder's sand from a local supplier.


----------



## Van

2mojo2 said:


> Is there some reason why sandbags would not suit your purpose?
> You can buy well made bags in different sizes, have them shipped empty, and fill them with clean builder's sand from a local supplier.


 

Just being really picky here: 
When filling sandbags, with sand as opposed to lead shot, you want to be sure to use "Clean Sand" or "Play Sand" which is the type used in kids sand boxes. regular Builders sand will leach dust through the weave of any sand bag material, even cordura. I've even built bags with plastic liners specifically 'cause the purchaser want to use the cheaper, dirty sand, inside of a year they were leaving a cloud of dust every time you picked one up.

BTW an upside down traffic cone makes a great funnel for filling sandbags.....


----------



## Footer

Sandbags are a good option, but sometimes you simply need more weight in a smaller package. If sandbags will fit the bill, go for it. If not... call a steel yard.


----------



## gafftaper

My sand bags are SealLine Baja Dry Bags. Heavy Duty Vinyl for keeping your gear dry while river rafting. They are great! 

What about Concrete Blocks. I love using these just flip them upside down and they stay in place. 

Weight is about 40 or 50 lbs. Cost is about $3.


----------



## scenerymaker

I have used sandbags from the local lumbar yard, used for winter weight in a pickup truck, and you're right. Those are a leak waiting to happen. Fortunately, that has only happened to me on loadout. The other thing that I've used is 80 pound bags of water softener salt from a commercial softener place,. Those bags seem to be indestructable. Then when the show's over, people take them home for their softeners. No storage or disposal problems!


----------



## ajb

Since you'll be going to a steel fabricator anyway for stage weights, you could also have them cut 2-3" plates in whatever shape fits into your scenery if you need a lot of weight in a small area. I'm looking at doing this for a touring production that needs climbable towers with relatively small bases.


----------



## kicknargel

Van said:


> As a last word of caution be sure you do not overload your arbors. Your original installers should have equipped you with enough weight to load every arbor to it's maximum. I know that somehow even stage weights have an ability to walk off, but please do not exceed the OEM specifications of your rig.



Also, I believe it's the case that sometimes the grid structure isn't rated to handle all of your arbors fully loaded at the same time. They may have supplied you with the amount of weight your system can handle.


----------



## rochem

kicknargel said:


> Also, I believe it's the case that sometimes the grid structure isn't rated to handle all of your arbors fully loaded at the same time. They may have supplied you with the amount of weight your system can handle.



Wouldn't (shouldn't) a limitation like this be clearly spelled out on a large sign, or at least documented in some paperwork somewhere? I find it hard to believe that a user is supposed to determine the structural capacity of their grid by counting their stage weights. Besides, this system would be totally thrown off if you ever needed to rigged anything from the grid such as lighting or sound towers or large set pieces.


Van said:


> As a last word of caution be sure you do not overload your arbors. Your original installers should have equipped you with enough weight to load every arbor to it's maximum. I know that somehow even stage weights have an ability to walk off, but please do not exceed the OEM specifications of your rig.



I was under the impression that the size of the arbor reflected the maximum load you can put on it. So when you can't fit any more bricks on the arbor, you're at the maximum. Is this not true?


----------



## Footer

rochem said:


> I was under the impression that the size of the arbor reflected the maximum load you can put on it. So when you can't fit any more bricks on the arbor, you're at the maximum. Is this not true?



Not true at all. At my wifes venue, they have 8' arbors double purchase... with lead stageweights. At my venue I also have 8' arbors double purchase, with cast iron stageweights. Both systems have the same arbor size but my max weight on my lines is 800#, hers is 1400#. They designed the system to use the larger weights. Systems are designed for the weights that go on them and what that weight is can vary greatly from venue to venue. There is a 2# difference between having steel and cast iron bricks. However, over an 8' arbor that adds up to an additional 200#. When a venue is complete, it should be marked how much weight each line can hold. 

There is also one more variable in the equation. How much can your grid hold? You might have a grid that can support 20,000#, in a house with 35 linesets. Each lineset can hold 1000#. However, they only give you 20,000# in weight because that is your maximum that the grid can handle. I have seen this type of setup in older venues that are renovated. If you do decide to go in and hang truss and motors you have to account for that weight on the grid as well.


----------



## KeepOnTruckin

For one show we needed wieght for, we went to home depot and bought 20 bags of play sand, left it in the bags and weighted the scenery, and when the show was over we returned it to HD. Worked very well.


----------



## kicknargel

rochem said:


> Wouldn't (shouldn't) a limitation like this be clearly spelled out on a large sign, or at least documented in some paperwork somewhere?



Now that you mention it, I think it's strange that no venue I've seen has a posting of "maximum grid load." Probably because it's more complicated than that. There's a total max, but also different limitation for a point load, or various distributions. I guess they figure only knowledgeable personnel should ever be in a place to have to know that information. A little information is a dangerous thing, and all that. Hopefully you have documentation somewhere.


----------



## lieperjp

scenerymaker said:


> I have used sandbags from the local lumbar yard, used for winter weight in a pickup truck, and you're right. Those are a leak waiting to happen. Fortunately, that has only happened to me on loadout. The other thing that I've used is 80 pound bags of water softener salt from a commercial softener place,. Those bags seem to be indestructable. Then when the show's over, people take them home for their softeners. No storage or disposal problems!



Drat! Someone beat me to it! We also use water softener salt bags. After several years of re-use, the bags finally split and we had to get new ones. We just used the 50-lb ones that you can get at the grocery store.


----------



## Footer

kicknargel said:


> Now that you mention it, I think it's strange that no venue I've seen has a posting of "maximum grid load." Probably because it's more complicated than that. There's a total max, but also different limitation for a point load, or various distributions. I guess they figure only knowledgeable personnel should ever be in a place to have to know that information. A little information is a dangerous thing, and all that. Hopefully you have documentation somewhere.



I have seen it before. Usually its a sign that says each beam can be loaded to ____ plf with a center point load of _____. Its only in newer venues.


----------



## kicknargel

Incidentally, for a stock sandbag situation, instead of spend the $$ on Rosco bags, I buy Home Depot playsand, wrap that in a heavy-duty garbage bag, and put that in a cheap gym bag. You get handles and everything. Corporate guys make fun of me until I point out that mine were $15 and theirs $50.


----------



## MPowers

gjustesen said:


> We have stage weights usually in stock. I would need to know what the size is you are looking for. email me at [email protected]


 
You're a couple years late. The OP was 2009.


----------

