# School Appropriate Music



## Call911 (Apr 26, 2010)

Alright all you hip youngin's, here's a question for you guys. 

I'm the Theater Technical Director for a highschool district, and also have the glorious job of being in charge of and running every sound system in the school district (5 theaters, 8 gyms, 4 fieldhouses, 4 pools, 4 community rooms, etc.)

The problem I ran into lately was running music for a Pep Assembly at one of the schools. My taste of music isn't exactly the most popular, so I google'd and iTune'd some more recent popular songs, only to find out most of them were not school appropriate.

Long story short, can we start a good list of popular music that highschool students would like. And needs to be upbeat and peppy, good groove, etc. Just no "hell" "****" or those other four-letter wonders. 

Thanks!


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## zuixro (Apr 26, 2010)

We used to play instrumental versions of rap songs before basketball games and at pep rallies. That was very popular. I don't know where to get them though; every time I asked someone, they just replied "[insert name of popular filesharing service here]."

We did have some parents complain that we were playing instrumental versions of rap songs with "bad words" once. Instrumentals. No words. Seriously. I went to a very conservative private school.


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## jstroming (Apr 26, 2010)

Miley Cyrus!!!!


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## JCarroll (Apr 26, 2010)

on itunes look up hip hop master beat
s instrumental. its 53 songs for $10


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## TheDonkey (Apr 26, 2010)

www.beatport.com

Is a site that many DJ's use for music, they have many instrumentals, but I'm not so sure about Pop/Top40


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## sdauditorium (Apr 28, 2010)

I've been running game sound for a local school since 2001 and have fought the same battles. I use a not as well known file-sharing service (similar to Kazaa and Limewire). Usually, I can find edited, clean, or radio versions of most popular rap songs on it and haven't had a problem with it. Otherwise, if the song is on a local pop music radio station (Gives You Hell) is an example, I'll play it with the justification students are listening to it at home and wherever else anyways. 

To help appease the older people, I will mix up music genres pretty frequently within a game. I won't play just straight rap or hard rock, but will throw in 60s or hair band 80s songs to appeal to as many tastes as possible.

Also, I'll try to get away from the Top 40 songs sometimes (the standard stuff everyone plays) and dig deeper into albums from groups that are currently hot and try some lesser known but similar style of music.

Of course, you'll always get some parent or grandparent who complains, but I've always had the support of administration and have never had any problems.


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## gpforet (Apr 28, 2010)

Are there not ASCAP issues associated with the reproduction of copywrighted works?

I don't think is as much the issue of where the music comes from. Unless the music is in the public domain, or has been purchased from a royalty-free publishing house, playing copywrighted music in a public forum is, in nearly all cases, a violation of copywright laws.


sdauditorium said:


> I've been running game sound for a local school since 2001 and have fought the same battles. I use a not as well known file-sharing service (similar to Kazaa and Limewire). Usually, I can find edited, clean, or radio versions of most popular rap songs on it and haven't had a problem with it. Otherwise, if the song is on a local pop music radio station (Gives You Hell) is an example, I'll play it with the justification students are listening to it at home and wherever else anyways.
> 
> To help appease the older people, I will mix up music genres pretty frequently within a game. I won't play just straight rap or hard rock, but will throw in 60s or hair band 80s songs to appeal to as many tastes as possible.
> 
> ...


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## sdauditorium (Apr 28, 2010)

gpforet said:


> Are there not ASCAP issues associated with the reproduction of copywrighted works?
> 
> I don't think is as much the issue of where the music comes from. Unless the music is in the public domain, or has been purchased from a royalty-free publishing house, playing copywrighted music in a public forum is, in nearly all cases, a violation of copywright laws.



From what I understand, only if the music is the basis for the admission into an event. When people attend sporting events, they pay admission not to hear the music but to see the sport. 

If this were the case, every sport facility in the country would be silent (and under litigation).

However, if you would do this as a DJ, then there would be more of an issue in my opinion as you are making money directly off the music.


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## MarshallPope (Apr 28, 2010)

After a quick google search (Lord Google demands my attention... Glee, anyone?) it looks like you do have to purchase a license to play music. This page has a good overview:

Howstuffworks "How Music Licensing Works"


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## museav (Apr 28, 2010)

sdauditorium said:


> From what I understand, only if the music is the basis for the admission into an event. When people attend sporting events, they pay admission not to hear the music but to see the sport.
> 
> If this were the case, every sport facility in the country would be silent (and under litigation).
> 
> However, if you would do this as a DJ, then there would be more of an issue in my opinion as you are making money directly off the music.


I think you understand wrong. All that matters is that it is a public performance, whether it is the focus or not and what you charge for the event do not negate or change the general copyrights issues.

Your argument also falls apart in that if the the music adds nothing to the experience then why are you playing it? You obviously feel that it does add something, and thus has some value.


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## gpforet (Apr 29, 2010)

This is a common misunderstanding of copywright laws especially in the entertainment arena. Most venues do pay ASCAP fees to cover the reproduction of protected works. Typically, the wording is "no unauthorized reproduction". 

Whether or not you are making money on the reproduction is moot.


sdauditorium said:


> From what I understand, only if the music is the basis for the admission into an event. When people attend sporting events, they pay admission not to hear the music but to see the sport.
> 
> If this were the case, every sport facility in the country would be silent (and under litigation).
> 
> However, if you would do this as a DJ, then there would be more of an issue in my opinion as you are making money directly off the music.


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## DuckJordan (Apr 30, 2010)

gpforet said:


> This is a common misunderstanding of copywright laws especially in the entertainment arena. Most venues do pay ASCAP fees to cover the reproduction of protected works. Typically, the wording is "no unauthorized reproduction".
> 
> Whether or not you are making money on the reproduction is moot.




okay before we hijack this thread into another copyright argument, Lets all assume that this school district like any others in the US buy the blanket rights to any music that is to be used at school events. 

Now as far as getting songs that are popular just use itunes and make sure that you don't download anything with the...

tag anything without it is generally safe.


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## gpforet (Apr 30, 2010)

Actually, considering the OP was misinformed regarding rights for reproduction of copywrighted material and made clear that they were unaware that permission was needed, it would be negligent to ASSUME that anyone has purchased blanket rights when in nearly all cases, they have not.

The answer to his question was more than directing him to some music download source.


DuckJordan said:


> okay before we hijack this thread into another copyright argument, Lets all assume that this school district like any others in the US buy the blanket rights to any music that is to be used at school events.
> 
> Now as far as getting songs that are popular just use itunes and make sure that you don't download anything with the...
> tag anything without it is generally safe.


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## museav (Apr 30, 2010)

DuckJordan said:


> okay before we hijack this thread into another copyright argument, Lets all assume that this school district like any others in the US buy the blanket rights to any music that is to be used at school events.
> 
> Now as far as getting songs that are popular just use itunes and make sure that you don't download anything with the...
> tag anything without it is generally safe.


It is probably much safer to assume they don't have such rights and find out otherwise. Even if they do, the comment presented was not that one might already have rights but that you did not need them based on factors such as profit. That is erroneous.

There is also the potential impact if someone who is not an employee of the District or a student (the OP apparently is an employee, not sure about all responders) is involved.


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## NickVon (May 1, 2010)

Slightly off topic in regards to probably not the kind of music you are looking for. For house music i have a bunch of cover and original works by local and independent artists that I play. Usually when i meet one or find an artist that has some house appropriate music I tell them who I am and what I do and that I'd like to use their music as house music for our theatre. Usually they then hand me a CD for free. I'll ask them for any brouchers or promo cards they might have for us to display in the lobby and it's win win.

Music that we can play on a simple handshake deal for local artists that just want to get their work heard. I have a nice collection of light blues/jazz/acoustic/acappella that is great. Pep Rally type music is a little harder unless you go for public domain oldies (of which there are some good ones) but still tougher to please the age group you are aiming for.


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## techno89 (May 10, 2010)

oh come on its a school no one gives a crap if you play gives you hell and don't get some sort of rights to play it from a music company


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## HSSBO94 (May 10, 2010)

Well it might be a "different" solution but here goes:

at our school, the students (especially in the studio mixing class) have access to the midi lab and many have made their own raps and instrumental techno things.

we have used the student's music multiple times from slide shows to walk-in music during mornings.


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## zuixro (May 10, 2010)

techno89 said:


> oh come on its a school no one gives a crap if you play gives you hell and don't get some sort of rights to play it from a music company



True. A lot of schools do it and get away with it. That doesn't make it legal though.


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## museav (May 10, 2010)

techno89 said:


> oh come on its a school no one gives a crap if you play gives you hell and don't get some sort of rights to play it from a music company


This makes no sense. The fact that there are related laws and licensing shows that someone obviously does care. And how does it being for a school justify any unethical or illegal actions? It is a legal issue and the potential penalties are quite large, get hit with one and somebody definitely will care.


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## Ancient Engineer (Feb 1, 2019)

museav said:


> somebody definitely will care.



Yup.

I am responsible for licensing through the four popular licensing agencies for a large amusement park in the USA.

When the reps show up (unannounced, of course) and demand to see our current licensing and inspect running shows they always say that they are going to local restaurants and schools to see if licenses are on hand.

Or if iTunes or Spotify are being used as sources...

Both of which are _not legal_ (with the basic licensing in the fine print of the contract that you clicked "Agree" on) for *ANY* kind of public performance.

Didja know that if dancing is plausible where protected tracks are being played you have to pay a different (higher) licensing rate. We are beat up on this with our characters who are instructed in certain shows to remain flat-footed at all times to avoid fines.

I am forced to shut down dozens of school groups and "professional" organizations a year who have no rights or are using the public license on iTunes or Spotify. 

If they cannot prove _with paperwork_ that they have licensing we have to ask them not to play pre-recorded music.

Ironically the venue is the first recepient of the fines and it is based on the number of "violations".

A "violation" is each song played without a proper license. Each song incurs its own associated (large) fine based on the approximate number of people who could have heard it at the time of playing.


To the OP:

We too struggle for "family friendly" versions of popular songs.

Even with "radio edits" we get complaints of foul language (even though it isn't there).

But... look for the radio edits. There is nearly always a radio version of current popular songs.



...and check your licensing... Ask your school superintendant, they usually know.


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## Amiers (Feb 1, 2019)

Necro thread. But still good info.


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## TheaterEd (Feb 1, 2019)

Ancient Engineer said:


> Ironically the venue is the first recepient of the fines and it is based on the number of "violations".



I am having a hard time finding specific answers online to my circumstances. I run a public high school venue and help with the pep assemblies. Everyone wants to play music. Is there some sort of 'blanket' copyright protection that we should be purchasing? I found the one for videos and movies that applies to high school years ago, but I haven't been able to find what we need for music. It's possible that the school already has it (they already had what we needed for video), but I want to know what I am looking for. I understand fair use for classrooms and educational experiences, but I don't know what qualifies as what. 

Three specific scenarios are what I really am interested in. 
1. Pep assembly. Admin want music as the kids come in. 
2. Future Business Leaders of America conference. Non-profit organization, being hosted by my district, but the involved schools did technically pay registration fees. They want music for down times and for their 'Miracle Minute' (60 seconds of going around with buckets to collect donations to a charity).
3. A local non-profit theater company has rented my facility and wants to play music before, after, and during intermission.

I want to do things as legally as possible and model that behavior for my students.


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## Jay Ashworth (Feb 1, 2019)

Ancient Engineer is closer to the mark than anyone else (as you'd expect).

ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC (at least) will write your organization/venue an annual blanket performance license, bsaed on your size and frequency of events. This is indeed the responsibility of the venue, not of visiting acts/DJs, and the venue will be who gets nailed if you screw up.

It's usually in the $1500-3000 range, chicken feed for a school district. Especially compared to the fines.

My understanding is that they disperse the fees to acts/labels based on current popularity, and do not require a cue sheet... but if you file one, they'll make sure *those acts get the money*.

So if you play back-catalog or indie music a lot, you should file cue sheets.


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## TheaterEd (Feb 1, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> ASCAP, BMI


I can't find secondary educational facilities on either of these sites. They have college/university designations, but I'm not seeing public school options.


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## Ancient Engineer (Feb 1, 2019)

Jay has hit the nail on the head. As much as calling the ASCAP/BMI/SESAC folks directly is a not-always-pleasant thing, you should call them.

They can get you the forms and help you with the process. Be forthright, gracious and hat-in-hand and you will get what you need.

The dispersements are as Jay described. The cue sheet filing process is not awful... (in the big picture)

You will need a blanket from those three at a minimum. This will get you 95% or so of all artists.


Just feel relief that you don't need mechanical rights so your band can perform popular songs legally... that is a whole 'nuther flapcon 5...


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## Malabaristo (Feb 1, 2019)

Ancient Engineer said:


> You will need a blanket from those three at a minimum. This will get you 95% or so of all artists.



I want to highlight this statement as it's often a point of confusion. ASCAP represents a certain set of artists and studios, BMI a different set, and so on. Getting a blanket license from any one of those organizations does not mean you can play whatever music you want--just the set of artists and studios they happen to represent. Getting the big three covers most music, but still not all of it. You would still need to check everything you play against their member lists to know for sure that you're in compliance. Copyright can be a very confusing topic, and there are a lot of little details like this to keep track of.


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## TimMc (Feb 1, 2019)

Seeing @museav's post to this thread reminded me how much I miss our good friend Brad Weber.


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## macsound (Feb 8, 2019)

There are services like Cloud Cover Music and Muzak that specifically make streaming services for public playback and they cover all the licensing fees. 
Just an app that goes on an iphone or computer and you pay the $15 a month or whatever.


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## Jay Ashworth (Feb 13, 2019)

One other fun idea: if there's music you want to include for positioning, but can't actually play for lyrics reasons, get the karaoke tracks, and play them underneath announce.

You get 'credit' for playing the song, and it even looks as if there's a 'good reason' you played the instrumental-bed version.

Much karaoke music is published ASCAP/BMI, so your blanket will still cover it, though the label won't get any money unless you file cue sheets. (This last is true for, pretty much, anything that isn't "Hot 100 in the last 3 years, or classic recurrent" -- I don't know their exact internal rule, and they may not publish it, but the only way to get money to writers for out-of-the-way songs is to file cue sheets with ASCAP and BMI.)


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