# Who's using DMX to control volume faders?



## kenact (May 1, 2015)

I'm using QLC+ to run my theater productions. I love what I've been able to accomplish with QLC+ so far, but one thing I'd like to do is manage automatic audio fades. For instance, when I have my preshow lights and music playing, when I'm ready for places, I'd like to be able to fade my lights & music simultaneously.

I've only seen one device, a Raipec 4-Channel DMX VCA Unit, that looks like it would do the job, but I haven't been able to find out where they can be purchased, yet.

http://www.raipec.co.uk/Raipec DMX VCA box.pdf

Any suggestions out there?

Thanks


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## Morte615 (May 1, 2015)

A lot of show control devices will do what you want. You want to look for something that will talk with your lighting console (usually MIDI but could be UDP if networked) and something that either acts as a playback machine (say a QLAB computer) or a separate mixer or playback machine (Alcorn Mcbride, or Gilderfluke) that can communicate through MIDI or UDP (or some other setup)

What type of mixer, light console, and interfaces do you have or are looking to get?


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## kenact (May 2, 2015)

Morte615 said:


> A lot of show control devices will do what you want. You want to look for something that will talk with your lighting console (usually MIDI but could be UDP if networked) and something that either acts as a playback machine (say a QLAB computer) or a separate mixer or playback machine (Alcorn Mcbride, or Gilderfluke) that can communicate through MIDI or UDP (or some other setup)
> 
> What type of mixer, light console, and interfaces do you have or are looking to get?


 I'm running QLC+ from a Windows 7 laptop, through an Enttec OpenDMX USB dongle. I'm not using a board. All my audio is coming out of my headphone/lineout jack on the laptop, into a tiny Behringer mixer (no midi, dmx or usb). When I need to fade out my Preshow music, I need to do it manually on the mixer, kill the preshow music, turn the volume back up on the mixer, then start my top-of-show.


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## llburg (May 2, 2015)

Easiest way is probably to get something like SFX on your laptop, then loopback a midi trigger from QLC+ to SFX to trigger your sequence. Or vice versa. 

FWIW, it's probably not the end of the world to have to hit go on lights, alt tab to another program, and hit go again.


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## Amiers (May 2, 2015)

llburg said:


> Easiest way is probably to get something like SFX on your laptop, then loopback a midi trigger from QLC+ to SFX to trigger your sequence. Or vice versa.
> 
> FWIW, it's probably not the end of the world to have to hit go on lights, alt tab to another program, and hit go again.



It is when you need to have them happen at the same time. Alt tabbing can mess up quite easily.


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## llburg (May 2, 2015)

Amiers said:


> It is when you need to have them happen at the same time. Alt tabbing can mess up quite easily.


That's fair, it does depend a lot on the specific situation.

IMO, the best solution would be to just have 2 separate computers.


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## techwiz24 (May 2, 2015)

I believe QLC+ has an OSC plug in. depending on your audio application, you should be able to use that to trigger cues.


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## kenact (May 2, 2015)

llburg said:


> Easiest way is probably to get something like SFX on your laptop, then loopback a midi trigger from QLC+ to SFX to trigger your sequence. Or vice versa.
> 
> FWIW, it's probably not the end of the world to have to hit go on lights, alt tab to another program, and hit go again.


 I probably should have mentioned that this is all for a Non-Profit theater. I'm doing this for productions I'm involved with, because I tired of using the old 2x12 LiteOn board, that's always losing faders, and the cd & cassette players in the booth. I'm not getting paid, or reimbursed for any of this. It's just a way to keep me from going mad, and throwing things out of the booth. In other words, cost is a very big factor.


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## kenact (May 2, 2015)

techwiz24 said:


> I believe QLC+ has an OSC plug in. depending on your audio application, you should be able to use that to trigger cues.


 I have been using QLC+ to run my audio. That way I can have scene change music integrated with my lighting cues.

It's really a neat program, but it's designed primarily for lighting, so I'm appreciative of the sound capabilitiies Massimo has built in already. I'm just looking for a little more.


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## kenact (May 2, 2015)

llburg said:


> That's fair, it does depend a lot on the specific situation.
> 
> IMO, the best solution would be to just have 2 separate computers.


IMO, the best solution is to have one program on one computer, doing everything, the way I want it done. 

It also makes it easier to program, if you only have to deal with one interface.


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## Joshualangman (May 2, 2015)

No. Your "best solution" doesn't exist. There is no software that is decently good at running both lighting and sound, because the requirements are so vastly different. You will need a second piece of software running sound cues. This should probably also be the software that's in control (the master) and let the lighting software take commands (be the slave). This is because most sound cueing software provides much better show control tools than lighting software. Run the show with the audio software (SCS, QLab, whatever) open in a front window, and let the lx software run in the background and take GO commands.


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## dbaxter (May 2, 2015)

It's true that "one program" would be a difficult solution. The user interface for lighting is better done separately from the one for sound. That said, there's nothing wrong with having the two interfaces/programs running and having them 'talk' to each other. Either on the same computer or over the network or midi. That is what we do at our theater for tricky scenes.
You might want to take a look at the Cue Player [disclaimer - my software] software that we use at Blackfriars. It will do sound and lights from the same computer or two computers on a network.
As a side note, the Enttec Open, while a good starter interface, gets it's timing from the host computer and may give you issues if you try to run several programs and many channels on a laptop. You might want to look ahead to getting the Pro model, or something from DMX King that may be less expensive, but has an internal processor.


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## Dionysus (May 2, 2015)

I agree that for various reasons I'd lean away from "one program". Lighting software is better for lighting, audio for audio, video for video, etc for the most part.. Not to mention that if you put all your eggs into one basket you risk loosing all of your eggs at once. Also this "one program" is more likely to crash, especially if not developed into an extremely stable solution as excellent lighting or audio software is.
I've never really had a problem hitting "go" on lighting and audio at the same time, and when I HAVE tried to program and integrate lighting and audio on the same computer (with Horizon) I did not find it any easier to program or such, actually the opposite.

As mentioned midi or such may work well to trigger one machine from the other if you'd like.


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## AlexDavila (May 9, 2015)

+1 for separation of programs and hardware. While immediately more economical, it's too easy for a small bug to take out your whole rig. That, and having an operator who's full attention is at each system can better troubleshoot an issue than one person at one computer trying to juggle light cues while also dealing with an audio misfire. That said, you deal with what you have and you seem to be bound to a single computer. Putting your audio into a program designed for the task and linking the two via software is going to be the better solution. I'm not familiar with QLC+, and while it seems like a very capable setup, setting audio fades and linking them to other cues is a very basic task that most audio cue playback software can do. If it can't handle that, then you shouldn't have your audio there. I'm in Mac land so my goto is Qlab, but I know there are some offerings for Win7 that will handle cues well and isn't as cost-prohibitive as SFX.


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## superuser2 (May 13, 2015)

QLab playing audio and firing cues over a virtual MIDI loopback interface (available by default in OSX) has worked for us many times in the past.


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## rwhealey (May 14, 2015)

It would be possible using a third party control system - AMX has a DMX to AX-Link (ethernet control) interface: http://www.amx.com/products/AXB-DMX512.asp. You would also need a central control system to use the interfaces on either end. Some sound boards (like some Yamaha mixers) can be controlled directly by an AMX system. If you can't control directly you would need to use an AX-Link to MIDI module. You would still have the issue of creating a custom program, but at least you would be working with a commonly used programming language and have good support from the manufacturer.


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## Max Warasila (May 17, 2015)

Fire a "go" command to QLab. Done.


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## betaone (Dec 2, 2015)

Would you be happy with a wee box that has line in and line out 1/8" connections, that has a DMX input and could be set to any address? 0-255 would route to 0-100% volume.


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## kenact (Dec 2, 2015)

betaone said:


> Would you be happy with a wee box that has line in and line out 1/8" connections, that has a DMX input and could be set to any address? 0-255 would route to 0-100% volume.



1/8" TRS would be great. I don't need separate control of left & right, just the ability to bring them up & take them down simultaneously.


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## betaone (Dec 2, 2015)

OK cool. 
meantime...seen this? http://www.bpesolutions.com/dmxproduct.html#anchor2063471


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## kenact (Dec 3, 2015)

betaone said:


> OK cool.
> meantime...seen this? http://www.bpesolutions.com/dmxproduct.html#anchor2063471


It looks interesting, but I don't think that will do want I'm trying to do. 

"Playback, Stop, Pause and Resume functions
Select any one of up to *32 MP3* recordings"

I just finished a show with 63 distinct sound cues.


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## betaone (Dec 3, 2015)

if you have all those sound cues, what good will simple audio fade-in/fade-out do for you? Do you mean, for instance, a sound to set up a scene like a background cityscape sound, or a playground.. and you'd want to fade down/out that audio once the scene starts? THEN you'd cue up the next sound while the current scene plays out on stage?

IF it's just volume, then we're asically talking about DMX to VCA control. Not too hard to do, I'm thinking. .. might even be a cool idea for a product. Does anyone think this would have any buyers?


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## kenact (Dec 3, 2015)

betaone said:


> if you have all those sound cues, what good will simple audio fade-in/fade-out do for you? Do you mean, for instance, a sound to set up a scene like a background cityscape sound, or a playground.. and you'd want to fade down/out that audio once the scene starts? THEN you'd cue up the next sound while the current scene plays out on stage?
> 
> IF it's just volume, then we're asically talking about DMX to VCA control. Not too hard to do, I'm thinking. .. might even be a cool idea for a product. Does anyone think this would have any buyers?



The fade-in/fade-out is mostly used for ending pre-show music, which will usually be done mid-song, fading scene change music, cutting volume on background ambient sound.

One of my scenarios, that has caused trouble when I'm not in the booth:
Pre-show lights & music start as first cue
Fade music manually on sound console
Go to second cue, which cuts the music, but keeps the lights the same
Turn up volume on sound console
Go to third cue, which keeps lights the same, and plays pre-show announcement

I have had multiple occasions where the pre-show music is just cut off, or where the beginning of the pre-show announcement can't be heard.

As I've said, the software I'm using doesn't have the ability to adjust the audio volume, so when I'm setting up a show, I either have to edit my sound files, to adjust the volume, or manually adjust the volume on the sound console. I'd rather be able to use a DMX "cue" to set the appropriate volume for any sound that needs to be louder or softer.

I don't know how much of a market there is for something like this, but it's something that would be useful to me.


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## betaone (Dec 3, 2015)

Ok.. just trying to wrap my head around your needs here. Your 'scenario' makes sense. I will talk to my guys to see what's involved. Looks like this calls for a DMX decoder chip, a way to address the DMX chip, and a small microprocessor to then turn DMX 0-255 into a voltage trigger for a VCA I.C. that would represent 0-100%. 

I'll dig a little!


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## kenact (Dec 3, 2015)

betaone said:


> Ok.. just trying to wrap my head around your needs here. Your 'scenario' makes sense. I will talk to my guys to see what's involved. Looks like this calls for a DMX decoder chip, a way to address the DMX chip, and a small microprocessor to then turn DMX 0-255 into a voltage trigger for a VCA I.C. that would represent 0-100%.
> 
> I'll dig a little!



Thanks


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## robartsd (Dec 3, 2015)

I agree with others who express that you'd be best served by separate software for audio and lighting (even if running on the same computer). You might check out this question on the Sound Design Stack Exchange site for possible sound software to try: http://sound.stackexchange.com/ques...o-cue-editor-controller-for-live-theater-show

If you're running Windows, MultiPlay http://www.da-share.com/software/multiplay/ may provide the functionality you need. You'd program QLC+ to accept MIDI commands from MultiPlay to tringer you cues.

Annother option would be to try to get volume fading into QLC+ either through a feature request or through digging in and modifying the code yourself (if you do a good job, submit a patch to the project). I assume that the audio fade out setting in QLC+ applies only to the end of the track, not to an arbitrary cue to end the sound; otherwise you'd be using that.


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## David Johnson (Dec 7, 2015)

I have recently done something like this for a couple of dance school, and plays here. Using a Combination of Lightfactory and ShowCueSystem I could control both the lights, sound and images that they wanted to display with Lightfactory configured to send the relevant cue instructions to ShowCueSystem. ShowCueSystem will also be a DMX device if wanted, where one channel can be the master fader and, a number of the cues can be set up to be DMX channels. If you wish to use a DMX Console (I did for one show run Lightfactory and ShowCueSystem on the same laptop, but I really prefer running them on different systems. )


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## kenact (Dec 30, 2015)

betaone said:


> Ok.. just trying to wrap my head around your needs here. Your 'scenario' makes sense. I will talk to my guys to see what's involved. Looks like this calls for a DMX decoder chip, a way to address the DMX chip, and a small microprocessor to then turn DMX 0-255 into a voltage trigger for a VCA I.C. that would represent 0-100%.
> 
> I'll dig a little!



I was just wondering if you found anything in your digging?


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## betaone (May 9, 2016)

..sent you a private convo just now.


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