# Flash pot, no controller?



## djstams (Apr 1, 2010)

I am wondering how necessary it is to have a foot pedal or something of the like for my flash pot. Is there something I could use in it's place, or can I just plug into the wall and hope the timing works out?


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## len (Apr 1, 2010)

Pyrotechnics? IMO, that falls into the "if you don't know, you shouldn't be fooling around with it" category, along with rigging and skydiving. Even if it is a puff of smoke that "could never do any damage." After The Station fire, everyone is deservedly a little cautious about discussing pyro.


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## shiben (Apr 1, 2010)

djstams said:


> or can I just plug into the wall and hope the timing works out?



I have 2 things about this: If your trusting that you can time some sort of music set and get a flash pot right, then your in dreamland. Murphy lets us know that the likelihood of this working right is very low. Second, Are you sure your not talking about a strobe light? Sorry for the dumb question, but I dont see how any pyrotechnic device would A) be sold to someone without a federal explosives license and B) have a timing device that lacks a deadman switch and a positive Go command. Anyhow, if you have pyro in your show, you need to hire a pyrotechnician. For one, it will look better, for two, be legal, and three, not blow up wherever you are performing. Where did you get said flashpot?


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## jonslilbro (Apr 1, 2010)

shiben said:


> I have 2 things about this: If your trusting that you can time some sort of music set and get a flash pot right, then your in dreamland. Murphy lets us know that the likelihood of this working right is very low. Second, Are you sure your not talking about a strobe light? Sorry for the dumb question, but I dont see how any pyrotechnic device would A) be sold to someone without a federal explosives license and B) have a timing device that lacks a deadman switch and a positive Go command. Anyhow, if you have pyro in your show, you need to hire a pyrotechnician. For one, it will look better, for two, be legal, and three, not blow up wherever you are performing. Where did you get said flashpot?



To answer 2 for ya, it'd be very easy if someone in the past decided to make a DIY flash pot. That's what we've got, someone about 9 years ago decided to make his own that has no dead man's switch and, obviously, didn't require any type of license for us to purchase. But that's why since I've been here we have not used them, I've put them away in a dark room where no one else even knows they exist.


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## shiben (Apr 1, 2010)

jonslilbro said:


> To answer 2 for ya, it'd be very easy if someone in the past decided to make a DIY flash pot. That's what we've got, someone about 9 years ago decided to make his own that has no dead man's switch and, obviously, didn't require any type of license for us to purchase. But that's why since I've been here we have not used them, I've put them away in a dark room where no one else even knows they exist.



Obviously, thats the case. The timing device, however, makes me nervous. I have built these kinds of things in my more stupid days (not for the stage, but for use outside in fields... Blowing things up in the countryside...) and having a timer on them is a bit more difficult. Thats getting into bomb making type work, and although its not out of the range of your average 12 year old, its also the kind of thing that generally does not have DJ applications in mind. The place I used to work had some DIY pyro devices about 13 years before I got there as well, got scrapped when the Fire Marshall was watching a show that his kid was in and they set them off. For some reason he didnt think that was ok. Cant figure out why...


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## MNBallet (Apr 1, 2010)

djstams said:


> I am wondering how necessary it is to have a foot pedal or something of the like for my flash pot. Is there something I could use in it's place, or can I just plug into the wall and hope the timing works out?



To directly answer you question: NO, you can not just plug it into the wall to set off a Pyro device. It is against the law to do so. Fire codes state that you must have a two action device to set off these kind of effects. A two stage iginition system prevents you setting it off by accident.

Second, a direct power supply from the wall is also against the law. You must have an "isolation transformer" in the power line.

Please ask a Licenced Pyro Technician to do any effects for you.

Kenneth Pogin
Licenced Pyro Technician for over 15 years
(and doing Pyro for Rob Zombie and Alice Cooper next month! oh yea!)


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## derekleffew (Apr 1, 2010)

Now THAT'S a ballet I might not be bored with.


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## Footer (Apr 2, 2010)

I still think the OP is talking about a strobe light... I can't even think of the reason why anyone would want a flash pot on a foot pedal. The though of that scares the hell out of me.


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## gafftaper (Apr 2, 2010)

Oh I think he's talking about a flash pot and it scares me. 

I purchased a flashpot from a "reputable" magic dealer 10-15 years ago. It had no switch at all. Just some lamp cord and an Edison plug. I devised my own system to make sure it was safely turned on and off. Back then it was sort of the wild west and as long as no one complained, you weren't going to get busted. Since then we've had both "The Station" fire and 9-11. The rules are VERY different now about Pyro. Fire marshals take this stuff VERY seriously. I've also grown up and take it a lot more seriously too. Even though I was trained by someone who knew what they were doing, I'm not licensed and I would never think of using my flash pot in a show now. 

If you don't know, find someone who does. Even if you do know (like me) don't do it without a license.


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## djstams (Apr 2, 2010)

THanks for replys. starlight.com is where it was purchased, and unfortunatly at the time of purchase they give you less information than you need, and never inform you about needing a 2 step system, so I can take the bullet on not doing it my due diligence. No need to be harsh to me, thats why i am here, asking all of you for help, and finding it, so thanks again.


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## Footer (Apr 2, 2010)

djstams said:


> THanks for replys. starlight.com is where it was purchased, and unfortunatly at the time of purchase they give you less information than you need, and never inform you about needing a 2 step system, so I can take the bullet on not doing it my due diligence. No need to be harsh to me, thats why i am here, asking all of you for help, and finding it, so thanks again.



We are here to inform you. There are plenty of places that sell flash pots like the one you have. These things are used by backyard magicians all over the place. Just because they are sold, does not mean they are safe. I have thrown away more home made flashpots at nearly every job I have had. Its a big issue in the industry. Few people will go out and buy gerbs and use them. However, for some reason people think a flash pot is OK to use. It is a pyro device. It does require a person who is federally licensed to operate. It does require that all local and state rules are followed. It does require that you can ensure that all soft and hard goods are properly flameproofed. 

Please, take this thing out of service. Its great that you have so far used it without burning down a building. However, even White Lion did many shows before they burned down a building. It only takes one small spark to light up a 15 year old curtain or foam tile and send the place up in flames.


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## djstams (Apr 2, 2010)

Luckily i tested only once on an empty stage, with fire extings nearby, and thats when I relized it wasn't going to work. It is dissapointing that companies that sell "theater supplies" would even try and have these available, i feel sorta like a fool now.

Thanks all for your help once again.


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## Footer (Apr 2, 2010)

djstams said:


> Luckily i tested only once on an empty stage, with fire extings nearby, and thats when I relized it wasn't going to work. It is dissapointing that companies that sell "theater supplies" would even try and have these available, i feel sorta like a fool now.
> 
> Thanks all for your help once again.



Because flashpots have a loose charge you never really know what is going to happen with them, unlike a gerb that has a nozzle. I am glad that you decided not to use it. Nothing saying you can't get the proper training to use it safely, but for right now your better off without it. Buy a strobe light and a fog machine.


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## gafftaper (Apr 2, 2010)

Hey DJ you aren't alone. They are easily available everywhere. They put a "you are responsible with whatever happens" disclaimer on it. They don't tell you that it's most likely illegal by: Fed, State, and City regulations for you to use it. If you don't cause a fire you can have your show shut down. If you do start a fire you will go to jail. 

Last time I purchased flash powder, it came with this strange paperwork. It said something like: "If you mix chemical A with chemical B it creates a dangerous explosive. You should never do this. However if you decide to ignore our warning and mix the two chemicals, this is how you do it..." 

HEY MNBallet: Let's say someone wants to use a flashpot (or some other pyro) in a show and they want to do it the right way. What training and certification do you need? How do you get it? Once you are trained/certified what is the process of getting the permission to actually do it like. Thanks!


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## MNBallet (Apr 2, 2010)

DJ,
Please don't feel like a fool. Starlight and Theaterefx are both places where I get my pyro supplies, so it's not like they are selling people "unsafe" stuff, they just expect the end user to know what they are doing and have a discalimer that people have to sign. Both places have my pyro license on file so that I am qualified to buy some of the more um..."dangerous" stuff from them.

Gaff, to answer your question: the first place to start is to read and memorize the NFPA 1126 and 1123 sections. The second place to go is to call your state Fire Marshal. I live in Minnesota where it is Minnesota Law that I have to have a Minnesota Pyro License. The Minnesota license over-rules the national FTA license, so it makes no sence for me to have the national one. Several states have laws like that, some don't. It is very common for the national tours (Broadway, R&R concerts) to have to hire what is called "A Local Shooter" in states where the state license is the law over the national one. It keeps Pyro technicians held to a more local authority, more direct contact.

Each state has its own rules, so after reading up, call your state Fire Marshal and ask. Then most likely you have to complete a year of understudy with a licensed technician and then take a written test followed by a interview. In my state you have to understudy under 3 different licensed pyro technicians and have all 3 of them sign off on you. 

Kenneth Pogin


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