# What CCTV camera do you use?



## sdauditorium (Aug 2, 2011)

For this year, I'm planning to install a CCTV camera setup for the sole purpose of sending a live feed of stage to overflow areas and eventually lobby LCD monitors. I'm using the existing wiring and infrastructure..namely the school's CCTV wiring. I've already got an RF modulator and distribution taken care of, but I'm trying to get a grasp on cameras that will give solid results. 

The camera will be mounted on our BOH wall at the rear of the auditorium. It is an approximate 87' throw to stage. The proscenium opening is 43' wide by 18' high.

For monitoring purposes, it doesn't need to be HD resolution or anything near it, but I'd like something that performs decently (at least) in low light and from arc sources (like spots) and general stage light. I would like a wired camera, and there is already a clean outlet for power next to where the camera will be mounted. Audio will be taken from an Aux Send on our mixer.

Any suggestions on a good camera would be appreciated as well as reviews on performance. Budget is flexible.


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## cpf (Aug 3, 2011)

It's not really a CCTV camera, but after figuring out the settings, the Sony EVI-HD1 works quite well. It's ~$4000, PTZ, and HD, though.


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## museav (Aug 4, 2011)

"CCTV cameras" are typically associated with security applications and are often a separate product line for the manufacturers from any professional/industrial cameras, with the latter probably being more common for this type of application. In any case, a couple of things you may want to consider:

What format of video input (composite, S-Video, etc.) will the modulator you apparently already have support?

Do you only need a fixed shot or would remote control of zoom and perhaps even pan and tilt be desired?

If you put the camera output on a CCTV/CATV distribution system then that signal will potentially be available everywhere and unless you control the power of the camera, also at all times. The inverse is also true, any place you provide connectivity for the camera will also potentially have access to all other programming, all they have to do is change the channel.

The specifics of the demodulator or tuner will be a factor of your CCTV/CATV distribution system but all displays will need to have either an internal or external compatible demodulator/tuner. One currently common issue with this is that many facilities have existing NTSC based distribution systems while most new TVs have only ATSC tuners and many flat panels have no integrated tuner.

Because of the last two issues, and to maximize the image quality, I generally keep theatre camera systems independent of any building or campus wide CATV/CCTV distribution, however that then does require a dedicated distribution system.


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## BillESC (Aug 4, 2011)

Sony's non HD PZT is the EVI-D70. Works extremely well in low light and has a great zoom. Allows you to enter six different focuses into memory. Just over a grand.


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## sdauditorium (Aug 5, 2011)

museav said:


> "CCTV cameras" are typically associated with security applications and are often a separate product line for the manufacturers from any professional/industrial cameras, with the latter probably being more common for this type of application. In any case, a couple of things you may want to consider:
> 
> What format of video input (composite, S-Video, etc.) will the modulator you apparently already have support?
> 
> ...


 
#1 - the RF modulator we have is a composite, consumer-grade Radioshack modulator. Depending on the camera we'd go with we'll need to factor in a type of converter when we go on the camera. 

#2 - PTZ would be great; at this point, fixed is all that we need, but I'm aware that there possibly could be PTZ functionality wanted at some point in the future.

#3 - I'm not concerned about the feed being available 24/7 throughout the school's CATV system. If I'd need to kill the feed for whatever reason, access to the camera's power wouldn't be difficult.

#4 - all of the monitors we currently have are NTSC-based tuners, but when we purchase flat panel(s) our latecomer monitor in the lobby that issue will also have to be taken into consideration. What do you recommend for this?

I will be taking an Aux Send from our board with two ambient recording mics we have flown over the edge of the thrust for the audio feed.

On a slightly separate but similar note, I would like to install speakers in the lobby for patrons so that they can get audio as well. I'd take an Aux Send from the board for that; would you typically recommend in-ceiling speakers for that application?


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## museav (Aug 5, 2011)

sdauditorium said:


> #4 - all of the monitors we currently have are NTSC-based tuners, but when we purchase flat panel(s) our latecomer monitor in the lobby that issue will also have to be taken into consideration. What do you recommend for this?


The common response for some years was to get a cheap consumer VCR with a built-in tuner, but those are becoming more difficult to find unless you like to go to garage and estate sales. Something like the Contemporary Research 232-ATSC+ is very nice for installed system as it supports for serial control and both ATSC and NTSC systems, but there are also many much less expensive consumer tuners available that may work fine for your application.


sdauditorium said:


> On a slightly separate but similar note, I would like to install speakers in the lobby for patrons so that they can get audio as well. I'd take an Aux Send from the board for that; would you typically recommend in-ceiling speakers for that application?


Some facilities want the lobby spaces to be able to operate as independent spaces for prefunction use or special events and in those cases how the 'overflow' audio is addressed may be somewhat dependent on how you also address those other uses. So while I typically use an aux feed for ancillary spaces, that may be run into a mixer or mixer/amp along with a paging/announce mic, local mic inputs, a chime source, local music sources, etc. I've also been involved in more than one venue where the Lobby was able to function as a second performance space with its own performance audio, video and lighting systems. So while ceiling speakers are probably the most common approach, that can vary.


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## pjveltri (Aug 14, 2011)

If you get pretty much any B&W CCTV camera on eBay with auto iris you will be surprised at just how much they can see in the dark (for example these will give you a useable image at .36 lux which is just more than a full moon), this is less often true with the color cameras, I just picked up 5 cameras with lenses for about $35 bucks. 

The important part about this is the auto iris so that it will adjust with the lighting level, or, since they are so cheap grab a color camera for when the lights are on, set the iris to a level for full bright and then use a black and white for the blackouts.

In the end you have to think about how often the stage will actually be entirely black, and by entirely I mean pitch black. No light from offstage, no light leaking from the pit, no doors opening, nothing. 

Also, for all of your lens choosing needs. I found this .pdf with some help on choosing a lens.

As far as getting the signal onto a screen I have always had great success with BNC to VGA adapters, and throwing it up on a monitor, it seems wherever I have worked there has always been one or two monitors spare, but BNC can just be adapted directly to the standard F or composite RCA connector if you have your mind set on using a TV

Hope my $.02 helped
PJ


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## Chris15 (Aug 14, 2011)

pjveltri said:


> but BNC can just be adapted directly to the standard F


 
Except for the small factor of F connectors being used almost exclusively for an RF modulated signal, which the composite output from a camera (on BNC or whatever) is NOT...


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## sdauditorium (Aug 14, 2011)

I like the Sony EVI if we ended up going with a PTZ camera. What's a good counterpart along the fixed boxed camera route if we ended up going that route?


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## pjveltri (Aug 14, 2011)

Chris15 said:


> Except for the small factor of F connectors being used almost exclusively for an RF modulated signal, which the composite output from a camera (on BNC or whatever) is NOT...


 
Haha Oops! I guess I shouldn't be making late night forum posts


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## museav (Aug 15, 2011)

pjveltri said:


> Also, for all of your lens choosing needs. I found this .pdf with some help on choosing a lens.


The imager size is a factor in selecting a lens and the chart noted does not seem to identify the related imager size. Here are some options for lens selection that do seem to address this:

http://www.webcam123.com/en/faq/lens_calc.html

How to choose a CCTV Camera Lens? - Ezcctv

CCTV Lens Calculator

http://www.boschsecurity.us/NR/rdonlyres/1A4F9B44-0376-4FC8-A735-151F02021082/0/SelectingtheRightCCTVCamera.pdf

CCTV Field of View Calculator


Since you mentioned that the camera was for "the sole purpose of sending a live feed of stage to overflow areas and eventually lobby LCD monitors.", that is a bit different than a camera used for a TD or SM to monitor the stage and I'm not sure how relevant performance during blackouts is or whether a black and white camera would be appropriate. I agree that color cameras may typically require greater illumination, however both the lens and the finishes involved can affect the actual results. And if considering a used camera, don't forget required accessories such as a power supply.


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