# SMPTE timecode audio playback/ player



## lightingguy1

Hey controlbooth!

At this point, I'm pretty much Like screw MSC. Is there any type of software or hardware That Can play MP3 music files and output SMPTE timecode together, in sync, and that is under 1,100 usd? 

Thanks Much!
-lightingguy1


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## kcaparotta

QLab on a Mac or SFX on a PC should handle this just fine.


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## wakkoroti

Use any audio program to put a smpte audio track on the Right Channel and your track on left. If you need stereo program output then use one of the many audio dongles out there that do multitrack output and use a multitrack audio editor.

If you need a smpte audio track, I'm sure someone could dig up one for you.


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## lightingguy1

wakkoroti said:


> Use any audio program to put a smpte audio track on the Right Channel and your track on left. If you need stereo program output then use one of the many audio dongles out there that do multitrack output and use a multitrack audio editor.
> 
> If you need a smpte audio track, I'm sure someone could dig up one for you.


 
So the right audio track acts like the master clock? Sound is not my forte, so I hope you don't mind if I ask a few " will this work" questions. BTW, I will be hooking The right sound output up to an ETC Expression 3!

1st Will it work????:
Mixvibes - HD Control CD - Timecode CD - HD CD - B&H Photo Video

And how do you set this CD up?

Is there anytype of software that can play an MP3 file and output smpte timecode via dongle/soundcard. I just have one of those "this isn't going to work" feelings with a cd.
Like I said I'm deaf when It comes to sound.

Thanks Much!
-Lightingguy1


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## wakkoroti

Forget the CD. Download the two hours of smpte I have here http://eticketprogramming.com/upload/SMPTE_56_min_to_2_hrs_29.97ndf.m4a and take that plus your program audio into an audio editor. Put the smpte on the right side, program on the left. Save it as a WAV or AIFF (forget the MP3, messes with the smpte sometimes depending on compression). Make that cable and give it a go.

And yes when you break it down, the smpte signal (in this scenario) is just an audio track that will act as a master clock (since it plays along with your program audio).


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## Chris15

We need to be careful, SMPTE timecode is a wide ranging descriptor...

What you are referring to is LTC, Linear Time Code and it *IS* an audio frequency signal. It plays off multitrack machines all the time. It's another output from audio replay at the Olympics, so you won't have any issues running it off CD.

I agree though to avoid MP3. It's lossy and it doesn't sound good anyway and it may well compress parts of the time code and that could be somewhere between messy and fatal...


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## derekleffew

kcaparotta said:


> QLab on a Mac or SFX on a PC should handle this just fine.


If using one of these programs, it's likely easier to use MTC rather than SMPTE LTC.


lightingguy1 said:


> ... BTW, I will be hooking The right sound output up to an ETC Expression 3! ...


Something to be aware of: SMPTE is an option for the ETC Expression3. While all consoles have the female 3pin XLR jack installed, not all have the SMPTE card inside. If yours doesn't, you can use MTC instead. From the v3.1 User Manual.pdf, chapter 24:

> The console also can run under external MIDI and SMPTE control, but an option must be installed for external SMPTE (external MIDI capability is standard for the console).


JLCooper and Mark of the Unicorn are two of many manufacturers that make MIDI distribution and translation devices.


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## lightingguy1

derekleffew said:


> If using one of these programs, it's likely easier to use MTC rather than SMPTE LTC.
> 
> 
> Something to be aware of: SMPTE is an option for the ETC Expression3. While all consoles have the female 3pin XLR jack installed, not all have the SMPTE card inside. If yours doesn't, you can use MTC instead. From the v3.1 User Manual.pdf, chapter 24:
> JLCooper and Mark of the Unicorn are two of many manufacturers that make MIDI distribution and translation devices.


 
Is there anyway to tell weather it has the card or not?

Thanks!


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## wakkoroti

Yes, open up the front panel (twist the pink 'knobs' at the front ends of the console to loosen the grip). Near the smpte port at the back there should be a chip there, if there isn't you'll just see an empty area labeled smpte option or something.


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## lightingguy1

wakkoroti said:


> Yes, open up the front panel (twist the pink 'knobs' at the front ends of the console to loosen the grip). Near the smpte port at the back there should be a chip there, if there isn't you'll just see an empty area labeled smpte option or something.


 
Ok, You lost me when you said "Pink." I think your thinking of an Expression 1, 2, 2x. Also, do you loosen all four of them? and does anybody know how much one of these SMPTE card costs? 

Thanks for the info!


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## derekleffew

Yes, wakkoroti was thinking of earlier Expressions. On the Expression3, they're dark gray, and you only loosen the front two. However, there are some precautions one should take before opening any console. I suggest calling ETC Service at 1-800-688-4116 and they can also help you if you don't have the SMPTE option installed. As I recall, it's relatively expensive, and the console must be sent back to ETC for installation.


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## wakkoroti

Yeah sorry, here's where you loosen (but not remove) the knobs to lift open the facepanel. Just look near the smpte port on the card - you'll figure it out.


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## derekleffew

wakkoroti said:


> Yeah sorry, here's where you loosen (but not remove) the knobs to lift open the facepanel. ...


*After* you've (minimally),
1. Removed the power source to the console, and
2. Taken precautions to guard against static discharge.


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## lightingguy1

So as it turns out, My console does have a SMPTE card installed!! Now back to the issue at hand: the actual signal controling the clock. if I use SMPTE it seems easier to "bring it together", but how you setup/program SMPTE events can you do that the same way with MIDI time code? Also, what do I use for the source of the MTC?? 

Thanks for all the help!
-lightinggguy1


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## derekleffew

Sorry for the detour.

Do what wakkoroti said above in post #5.

(Wakk- is that file really 29.97 non-drop frame? I thought that was a contradiction in terms. Isn't 30fps, ndf, more commonly used as long as no video is involved?)


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## wakkoroti

To clarify you're mentioning two different types of SMPTE Timecode. The one I have been talking about is LTC SMPTE Timecode as opposed to MTC SMPTE Timecode. Expression deals with them the same, as they both react to the Timecode Events List and the only configuration difference you have to do is tell Expression which you want to use (SETUP/OPTIONS SETTINGS/TIME CODE INPUT or SETUP/6/5 and pushing 1 for SMPTE (3 pin connector at the back, aka LTC Timecode) or 2 for MIDI Time Code (MTC) and then Enter. Ignore the "Enable Clock" softkey, this is for simulating timecode playback internally in the console.

If you want to use a program (like Qlab) to control audio and send MTC or Midi Show Control messages that's one way to do it, but it gets more indepth than I want to go into.

The easiest way is just to take that file I gave you, attach it to your audio file as the right channel, make that cable, plug the right output into your console, the left into the speakers, Enable Timecode in the Expression setup, go into the timecode events list on the Expression, push Learn, go back to stage, push play on your audio file, then Push Go on your Expression a bunch of times to learn your show, turn off learn mode, etc. etc. etc.


lightingguy1 said:


> So as it turns out, My console does have a SMPTE card installed!! Now back to the issue at hand: the actual signal controling the clock. if I use SMPTE it seems easier to "bring it together", but how you setup/program SMPTE events can you do that the same way with MIDI time code? Also, what do I use for the source of the MTC??
> 
> Thanks for all the help!
> -lightinggguy1


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## wakkoroti

Yes, really 29,97 Non-Drop and no 30 ndf runs slower per hour (1.8 seconds).

SMPTE EBU timecode by Phil Rees


derekleffew said:


> (Wakk- is that file really 29.97 non-drop frame? I thought that was a contradiction in terms. Isn't 30fps, ndf, more commonly used as long as no video is involved?)


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## lightingguy1

wakkoroti said:


> Yes, really 29,97 Non-Drop and no 30 ndf runs slower per hour (1.8 seconds).
> 
> SMPTE EBU timecode by Phil Rees


 
So yea, we're almost to the end of this complicated journey! , but back on the Expression 3 it only has: 30fps, 25fps, 24fps, so I'm guessing 30 fps? And whenever I try to save the compressed file and open it there is nothing in it~ all while using IE 8......

Thanks !


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## wakkoroti

Oops. Try this instead http://eticketprogramming.com/upload/SMPTE_56_min_to_2_hrs_29.97ndf.m4a

Yes 30fps on the Expression.


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## lightingguy1

ok so very thing is good on the lighting side...but...

I can't find a program that supports 30FPS for tIMECODE. regular audio editing software only gives the time in: HH:MM:SS:MMM. 
Plz note that i trying to find a program that will display time in this manner: HH:MM:SS:FF

ANY help is greatly apperciated


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## wakkoroti

If you're just trying to playback the audio (with the smpte file I gave you) and be able to see what time you are sending you can use this combination on a mac;

Soundflower 1.5.1
SMPTE Reader 1.01

After installing Soundflower - run SoundFlowerBed and click on the flower that appears in your menu bar. Click on Built in Output and. Click on Flower again and then on Soundflower (2ch)> Make sure that Channel 1 is assigned to Built In Output 1 and Channel 2 to Build in Output 2 (assign channel 2 to None if you don't want to 'send' smpte out the right channel at this time). In your audio program, assign the Audio Output from Built in Output to Soundflower (2ch), if your audio program does not let you select the audio output then in System Preferences/Sound change the audio output there.

Run SMPTE Reader. Change the Audio Input to Soundflower (2ch) and then in the next drop down, select Stream 2 to 'read' the smpte from the Right channel. Turn Jam Mode to off. (Bonus: You can send Midi Time Code -MTC- via this applet if you have a MIDI dongle by selecting it in the drop down at the bottom).


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## lightingguy1

Ok, so I've found out that My Console DOES NOT HAVE a SMPTE card. but, All consoles ship with midi, so quick change of plans.......... I need a device that can transform SMPTE to a midi cable...

Thanks!


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## lightingguy1

*Converterting SMPTE timecode (LTC) into MIDI timecode/ MTC*

Hey CB,

Does anybody know of a product that can convert SMPTE timecode into MTC? 

Please note: Asking for a price or bids openly is against CB policy!

Thanks 4 all your help!


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## derekleffew

*Re: Converterting SMPTE timecode (LTC) into MIDI timecode/ MTC*

Here's one: JLCooper Electronics PPS-2. There are many others by JL Cooper, as well as MOTU: (MOTU.com - MIDI Timpiece AV Overview), and other manufacturers.


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## lightingguy1

*Re: Converterting SMPTE timecode (LTC) into MIDI timecode/ MTC*

Ok, So this summer "project" has gone downhill VERY quickly, so Is there any _free/paid_ software out there that can generate MIDI timecode(outputing the midi via usb dongle) and play an audio track?

Thanks for your 2 cents.....


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## lightingguy1

*MDI timecode software*

Is there any software out there that can output midi timecode via dongle and play an audio file? 

-Trust me I want this summer "Project' do be done with!

Thank you all CB members who have helped me get one step closer!


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## wakkoroti

*Re: MDI timecode software*

The only one I know of is for Mac (listed above).


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## SHARYNF

Make sure you work out what you want to be the master (time code generator) and what is the slave. One solution I have used is a Alesis HD24 with 24 tracks of record/ playback It is simple to just select generate MTC

media.zzounds.com/.../ADAT-HD24_Manual-555427296ac2fe3a64335c4a2488e975.pdf -

If you have another device generating MTC and you need to slave audio playback to mtc I know Nuendo does that

WAV players that sync to SMPTE LTC or MTC? [Archive] - REDUSER.net

here are a few other links

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/261762-syncing-pt-logic-via-mtc-midisport.html

I would definitely stay away from attempting to do SMPTE in a MP3 I believe you are likely to get a less than ideal signal.

Sharyn


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## lightingguy1

well.... To sum this up, SFX has worked great for me! It outputs MTC and plays my MP3 file(s). 

So to create a light show using an expression 3, here is what you need:

1) SFX deluxe(SFX basic will not output MTC) - setup to output MTC with a delay cue to get the software and the lighting console sync'd up, then drop and drop your audio cue.

2) A USB to MIDI cable

3) A USB or firewire output interface to output the sound/MP3 - ie: BEHRINGER: FCA202

4) A audio editing software- to get exact timing to the music. I used audacity because it's free and simple to use.

And that's it! BTW, I bought the academic version of SFX to save money, basically the same thing as the Deluxe version. 

ETC strongly suggests that you need to have at LEAST a 5 second sync period for the console to get ready to fire cues!


Thnx!
-Lightingguy1


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## Ehech

Chris15 said:


> We need to be careful, SMPTE timecode is a wide ranging descriptor...
> 
> What you are referring to is LTC, Linear Time Code and it *IS* an audio frequency signal. It plays off multitrack machines all the time. It's another output from audio replay at the Olympics, so you won't have any issues running it off CD.
> 
> I agree though to avoid MP3. It's lossy and it doesn't sound good anyway and it may well compress parts of the time code and that could be somewhere between messy and fatal...




I needed to know that Linear Time Code is an audio frequency signal. 
my console has a fixed LTC in, but i was looking for sending LTC through a interface. 
Simple as that, audio signal


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