# Extra rope on fly rail



## Footer (Jun 27, 2010)

What is the rope to the side of the lock that is not the purchase line used for? The line is about 3' long and secured to the rail with an eye bolt. Usual QOTD rules apply.




sent from my HTC Incredible


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## Wolf (Jun 27, 2010)

I would say that someone has finally spent the time to permanently attach the a rope to snub (spelling?) the line when needed.


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## cdcarter (Jun 27, 2010)

I would agree with Wolf. Instead of having a few loose snub lines around, someone just attached one for each line.


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## Footer (Jun 27, 2010)

Are they safe to use? When would they be used?

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## derekleffew (Jun 27, 2010)

1a.) In the picture, does the knot attaching the sash cord to the eyebolt have a specific name, and if so, what is it? 
1b.) Why is the 16/17 knot reversed from 19/20?

2.) Is the Third Electric: a. Above, b. Below, or c. Coinciding with, its designated trim?


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## Wolf (Jun 27, 2010)

Footer said:


> Are they safe to use? When would they be used?
> 
> sent from my HTC Incredible




derekleffew said:


> 1a.) In the picture, does the knot attaching the sash cord to the eyebolt have a specific name, and if so, what is it?
> 1b.) Why is the 16/17 knot reversed from 19/20?
> 
> 2.) Is the Third Electric: a. Above, b. Below, or c. Coinciding with, its designated trim?



Footer - In my learnings they are safe to use. When I was first shown one it was to indicate to others that the line was at trim and should not be moved (an electric for example), but I believe that they can also be used to help secure a line that is slightly out of weight. NOT a lock by any means but a way to assist when loading a back drop.

Derek - 1. Not sure....
2. The 3rd Electric is B. bellow its designated trim


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## mstaylor (Jun 27, 2010)

The knot looks like a variation of a round and two halves. Round Turn and Two Half Hitches


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## CrazyTechie (Jun 28, 2010)

Footer said:


> Are they safe to use? When would they be used?
> 
> sent from my HTC Incredible



I'm just taking a shot in the dark here but this is what I would use them for, I would use them to tie around the brake or something to let everyone else know that there is, has been or will be some form of weight change that needs to be adjusted. For example when you add or remove lights from an electric. 

I've heard stories of what happens when someone doesn't know an electric is out of weight and goes and takes the brake off and I've seen what it can do to your hands if you hold on, it's not a pretty sight.

Again just a guess. That's my two cents on it.


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## mjw56 (Jun 28, 2010)

1.a: The knot looks like 2-half-hitches with the free end secured with a piece of spike tape.

edit: i was wrong...its a girth hitch


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## MPowers (Jun 28, 2010)

Ooh! Ooh! Mr. Kotter, Mr Koter, I know, I know. Its for the fly guy to tie around his waist so he doesn't get washed overboard......... Right! 

Michael Powers, Project Manager
ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc.
675 NE 45th Place, Des Moines, Iowa, 50313


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## ptero (Jun 28, 2010)

MPowers said:


> Ooh! Ooh! Mr. Kotter, Mr Koter, I know, I know. Its for the fly guy to tie around his waist so he doesn't get washed overboard......... Right!
> 
> Michael Powers, Project Manager
> ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
> ...




washed overboard = falling off the edge of the stage, right? OOF! Mebbe we oughter install a couple of these!
running. ducking. and hiding....


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## rsmentele (Jun 28, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> 1a.) In the picture, does the knot attaching the sash cord to the eyebolt have a specific name, and if so, what is it?
> 1b.) Why is the 16/17 knot reversed from 19/20?
> 
> 2.) Is the Third Electric: a. Above, b. Below, or c. Coinciding with, its designated trim?


 

1a. Two Half hitches is the knot (try to make it harder nex time...)
1b. ? someone was knot paying attention... (pun intended)
2. Third electric is AT trim


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## zuixro (Jun 28, 2010)

Is there a standard way to mark trim on ropes? I've been taught to spike at the top of the lock handle, and where the rope enters the lock.


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## Footer (Jun 28, 2010)

zuixro said:


> Is there a standard way to mark trim on ropes? I've been taught to spike at the top of the lock handle, and where the rope enters the lock.



There are many different ways, I will throw out that you should never spike to the top of the handle because the handle is down when you are moving the piece therefor you have no reference. 

So, people of CB, how does YOUR house mark trims?

Also, if one was to use those ropes to secure an out of weight lineset, how much weight could it safely hold?


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## erosing (Jun 28, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> 1a.) In the picture, does the knot attaching the sash cord to the eyebolt have a specific name, and if so, what is it?
> 1b.) Why is the 16/17 knot reversed from 19/20?
> 
> 2.) Is the Third Electric: a. Above, b. Below, or c. Coinciding with, its designated trim?



1a. They are larks head knots.
1b. I believe 19 is a left handed larks head.

Larks head knots are also called cow hitches and girth hitches.

2). My guess would be above, but it could also be below, or coinciding, depending on what level rail we are at, and what identification method the venue uses. 


This line would/should be used to tie a safety hitch, given its length, I would assume in this case they would use a stopper hitch.


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## erosing (Jun 28, 2010)

Footer said:


> Also, if one was to use those ropes to secure an out of weight lineset, how much weight could it safely hold?



How thick is the rope, how old is it, and what is its composition. Also, how old is it?


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## Footer (Jun 28, 2010)

Arez said:


> How thick is the rope, how old is it, and what is its composition. Also, how old is it?



I'm not really interested in breaking strength, more asking how would you attach it to the purchase line and how much weight would you put on it?


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## erosing (Jun 28, 2010)

Footer said:


> I'm not really interested in breaking strength, more asking how would you attach it to the purchase line and how much weight would you put on it?



From the picture, and the length of the rope, a safety hitch to attach, and maybe 50-75 lbs without knowing more details.

I would also have the backwards one retied correctly first.


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## cdub260 (Jun 28, 2010)

Arez said:


> How thick is the rope, how old is it, and what is its composition. Also, how old is it?



It's 1/2 inch, cotton sash cord, commonly used to rig travelers.

1) What are the advantages of using this type of rope for the pictured application?

2) What are the disadvantages?


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## erosing (Jun 28, 2010)

cdub260 said:


> It's 1/2 inch, cotton sash cord, commonly used to rig travelers.
> 
> 1) What are the advantages of using this type of rope for the pictured application?
> 
> 2) What are the disadvantages?



1) It will allow for a better grip due to its smaller diameter. All the force is on this line instead of the tension block and the guides. A stopper hitch (as well as a prusik knot) can be slipped to remove the load from the deck in a controlled manner. 

2) Cotton is not as strong as other materials, it is the weakest natural fiber. It has very bad shock absorption. If one of the knots is improperly tied it could result in a runaway.


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## renegadeblack (Jul 1, 2010)

I am going to guess that you tie the end of that rope to your fly ops' belt so that they can't wander off when they see something shiny... no? Well, I guess if there's a run away then you want them to be able to... well... runaway. Bad idea... I'm out of ideas.


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## gbdesign (Jul 6, 2010)

When reweighting an arbor on a counterweight system to balance the pipe weight and arbor weight you often take the slack in the two ropes, twist them together several times and then insert a stick between the lines and wedge it down the twisted lines to tighten the twists and create more friction. There is a length of steel attached to the wall behind the lines that is usually part of the counterweight system used to attach the arbor guides. This piece of steel is where you would put the far end of the stick and would act as the leverage point. Finally you would take that little piece of cord attached to the rail and tie it to the stick to secure it.


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## derekleffew (Jul 6, 2010)

It might be noted that the method described above, that of tying the stick, is considered UNSAFE by most, and is improper use of a snub line. A stick, stab, Line-Lok, or Uncle Buddy should never be left unattended. One industry-recognized expert expresses often his dislike for any method that puts undue stress on the floor block (tension block).


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## venuetech (Jul 6, 2010)

The Knot looks to be two half hitches, one reversed from the other. A larks head or girth would have two passes thru the eye bolt

I would say that the electric is, D. not at trim (it is below the green spike)

This looks to be a double purchase system.


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## erosing (Jul 6, 2010)

venuetech said:


> The Knot looks to be two half hitches, one reversed from the other. A larks head or girth would have two passes thru the eye bolt



While I will concede that no it is not a larks head in true form (at least how I think you're seeing it), but I argue that if you told someone to tie an open larks head there, instead of two reversed half-hitches, they would be able to tie that knot correctly the first time.

Also, it is a larks head tied around a rope, it's just the same rope.


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## gbdesign (Jul 6, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> It might be noted that the method described above, that of tying the stick, is considered UNSAFE by most, and is improper use of a snub line. A stick, stab, Line-Lok, or Uncle Buddy should never be left unattended. One industry-recognized expert expresses often his dislike for any method that puts undue stress on the floor block (tension block).


 
It is only for the transfer of weight when a pipe or batten is being loaded or unloaded and the weight floor is adding or taking off bricks and there is an imbalance of weight that the rail lock would not hold. It is not intended to be left unattended as the Head Rail man is there to oversee the safe loading and unloading procedures.


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## venuetech (Jul 6, 2010)

Two half hitches tied in the same direction is known to be very reliable.


this knot may have been miss-tied


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