# Intercom desperately needed



## zwolf59661 (Feb 13, 2008)

I've been sort of looking into intercoms for my school auditorium, because it currently doesn't have one but desperately needs one.

The way our auditorium is set up, we have the spotlight in the balcony, light board at the back of house, and various other people on/back stage (SM, director, whoever else may be in charge as per event). There is NO (if any) communication between positions. A wireless intercom system is preferred because a wired system would require our auditorium to be remodeled, which won't happen. I don't know about funding, as our school district is generally anti-arts, but I can try pulling a some strings.

Any suggestions?


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## Footer (Feb 13, 2008)

Do a search for wireless intercoms/clearcom. You should come up with some options. It IS NOT going to be cheap, probably in the 4-6k range. I would look a bit hard to see if you can't string cable or steal a sound run.


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## icewolf08 (Feb 13, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> I've been sort of looking into intercoms for my school auditorium, because it currently doesn't have one but desperately needs one.
> The way our auditorium is set up, we have the spotlight in the balcony, light board at the back of house, and various other people on/back stage (SM, director, whoever else may be in charge as per event). There is NO (if any) communication between positions. A wireless intercom system is preferred because a wired system would require our auditorium to be remodeled, which won't happen. I don't know about funding, as our school district is generally anti-arts, but I can try pulling a some strings.
> Any suggestions?


If the positions that you need comms at don't usually change then there is no reason for the expense of wireless. Also, there is less chance of failure with a wired system. It isn't that hard for you to run cable in inconspicuous places, and it certainly does not require the space to be remodeled. People have a fascination with wireless comms, but wired ALWAYS are more reliable and cheaper.


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 14, 2008)

Footer4321 said:


> I would look a bit hard to see if you can't string cable or steal a sound run.



Could you explain that a bit more, please?



And maybe a wired system would work, if we had somewhere to put it and a way of installing it. Any suggestions for a wired system? I've got the websites for Telex, Clear-Com, and Markertek.


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## Footer (Feb 14, 2008)

Telex and clearcom are both good gear, however production intercom has some really great stuff for much cheaper then either of the other two, and its fully compatible with both companies. Do you have a sound system in your school? If so, you already have half the job done. Take a mic line that goes to each side of stage and you can run your clearcom line down that instead of pulling new cable. Yes, you will lose an input but I think what you will gain will offset that. 

As far the balcony goes, get creative. If you get smaller mic cable, sometimes it can be tucked under trim, or who knows what else. There is a way to get cable everywhere, you just have to look at every option.


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## mbenonis (Feb 14, 2008)

I'll second the motion to look at Production Intercom. Ruggedly built gear that just works. Be sure to spec in the cost of lots of XLR for the intercom - at least one 25' and one 10' per pack, plus some 50' and 100' runs. Mark them as com-only for your own sanity.


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## avkid (Feb 15, 2008)

mbenonis said:


> Mark them as com-only for your own sanity.


Or you might even stick a 4 pin XLR connector on them to make sure nobody feels the need to use them for other purposes.


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## icewolf08 (Feb 15, 2008)

avkid said:


> Or you might even stick a 4 pin XLR connector on them to make sure nobody feels the need to use them for other purposes.


And um, how exactly does that help you? The comms need 3-pin so all you would do by getting 4pin is incur the extra cost and hassle of making adapters. And what happens when some lighting guy thinks it's scroller cable?

Easier to just pick an obnoxious colored cable, like bright yellow.


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## avkid (Feb 15, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> And um, how exactly does that help you? The comms need 3-pin so all you would do by getting 4pin is incur the extra cost and hassle of making adapters. And what happens when some lighting guy thinks it's scroller cable?
> Easier to just pick an obnoxious colored cable, like bright yellow.


Oh duh, 4 pin is the headset connector.
6 pin is for two channel
Shows how much I have worked with comm lately.


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## mbenonis (Feb 15, 2008)

avkid said:


> Oh duh, 4 pin is the headset connector.
> 6 pin is for two channel
> Shows how much I have worked with comm lately.



Only Telex 2-Channel, IIRC. ClearCom, RTS, and Telex 1 Channel use 3-pin.


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## gafftaper (Feb 16, 2008)

You don't need an expensive remodel. Just run some mic cable. Van put in a complete Production Intercom system a while back and it's been perfect. I've got a bunch of P.I. belt packs and headsets on their way for my system that should arrive soon, I'm eager to get my hands on them. Depending on what you get I found the price to be at least 20% less than Clear-com or Telex. http://www.beltpack.com


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 17, 2008)

Footer4321 said:


> Do you have a sound system in your school? If so, you already have half the job done. Take a mic line that goes to each side of stage




First, thank you all for your help.

Second, our sound system consists of a few inputs, about 4 speakers, and I don't know what else in between. But i do know there's no mixing board; it sort of all just runs together somewhere between the mics and the speakers.

Third, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by using our existing sound system as an intercom.


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## thebikingtechie (Feb 17, 2008)

There should be should be somewhere, probably in your booth where there's some audio stuff. Microphones don't just auto adjust.

What people mean by using your current system is in most theatres, there are inputs run from backstage, through the walls, to the booth. Those inputs would then normally plug into your sound system. Now if you take one of those inputs out of the sound system, you have a pre run chord to backstage that can be hooked into your intercom system.

I tried to get a system at my old school. I ended up with the cheapest system being somewhere in the thousands. We ended up just using two way radios. The kind you get for hiking or skiing from radio shack, they were $70 a pair. The only problem is with all the technical equipment etc, they got really bad interference. They worked, but sometimes they would suddenly not work, or we would have to repeat ourselves over and over.

You could try looking into higher power more VHF/UHF radios, but those can get a little pricey.

Good luck.


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## mbenonis (Feb 18, 2008)

thebikingtechie said:


> You could try looking into higher power more VHF/UHF radios, but those can get a little pricey.
> Good luck.



And you MUST have a license to use them. Fines for illegal operation can be as high as $11,000 per offense.


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 18, 2008)

thebikingtechie said:


> There should be should be somewhere, probably in your booth where there's some audio stuff. Microphones don't just auto adjust.
> 
> What people mean by using your current system is in most theatres, there are inputs run from backstage, through the walls, to the booth. Those inputs would then normally plug into your sound system. Now if you take one of those inputs out of the sound system, you have a pre run chord to backstage that can be hooked into your intercom system.
> 
> ...



Our mics don't auto adjust: they right out DON'T adjust. We don't have a control booth; all the audio equipment is backstage. There's a console with a few wireless mic receivers (I've never seen these wireless mics), a CD/cassette player (that never gets used), a video input for our projector on the catwalk, and other stuff like that. No EQ, no adjustments, nothing. Only On/Off. Everything just goes right to the speakers. There's a DMX input for our light board close by, but that still doesn't solve our balcony/spotlight problem.

So my problem with using our current sound system is this: How do we plug an intercom station into a non-existent cable?


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## Sean (Feb 18, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> Our mics don't auto adjust: they right out DON'T adjust. We don't have a control booth; all the audio equipment is backstage. There's a console with a few wireless mic receivers (I've never seen these wireless mics), a CD/cassette player (that never gets used), a video input for our projector on the catwalk, and other stuff like that. No EQ, no adjustments, nothing. Only On/Off. Everything just goes right to the speakers. There's a DMX input for our light board close by, but that still doesn't solve our balcony/spotlight problem.
> So my problem with using our current sound system is this: How do we plug an intercom station into a non-existent cable?



OK, so back up a bit. Do you have any wired mics?

Are there any XLR panels on the wall anywhere in the theatre (house, backstage, catwalk, etc)?

To get all the equipment for ~4 headsets it isn't just a few bucks. Production quality wireless is still rather expensive compared to wired systems.

Can you maybe post a few photos of your space? How large a space? How many seats, etc? 

One thing to keep in mind is many of us are used to running cables _anywhere_ we need to. It's pretty standard to do things like that. Sometimes holes get drilled in walls. Sometimes data lines are run through plenum spaces or across attics. I'm sure there IS a way to run the cables. It might not be _easy_, and it may not be something you either have the ability or permission to do, but it can be done.

Give is more information.

--Sean


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 18, 2008)

Yes, there are wired mics. There are XLR (mic) inputs at the front of the stage, as well as stage left and right. There is an XLR panel at the back of the house, but I'm not sure if it's even connected to anything. Also not sure how many seats we have.

As far as pictures go, I'll see what I can do. Probably this week I'll get some up. The other person and I are planning on working in the auditorium during our lunch period tomorrow, and possibly every day this week.

This is a screen shot from out light board. It reads:
Scene Master 60
Version 4.14

Cues Available 200
Channels 60
Dimmers 512


Bump Buttons On
Submasters 41-60

Hand-held Remote Off
Dimmer Protocol Colortran​


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## avkid (Feb 18, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> Yes, there are wired mics. There are XLR (mic) inputs at the front of the stage, as well as stage left and right. There is an XLR panel at the back of the house, but I'm not sure if it's even connected to anything. Also not sure how many seats we have.
> This is a screen shot from out light board. It reads:
> Scene Master 60
> Version 4.14
> ...


What does that have to do with anything?


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 18, 2008)

Probably nothing, but you never know.


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## Sean (Feb 18, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> Yes, there are wired mics. There are XLR (mic) inputs at the front of the stage, as well as stage left and right. There is an XLR panel at the back of the house, but I'm not sure if it's even connected to anything. Also not sure how many seats we have.
> As far as pictures go, I'll see what I can do. Probably this week I'll get some up.



Go look at all of those panels. See what each XLR port is numbered. Draw up a chart.

I'll be you'll find that the ports on stage match up with those at the back of house. They may even be split up (half to the rear of the house, some to the front of the stage).

Take some close up, and WELL LIT photos of them if you can't figure it out.

--Sean


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## museav (Feb 18, 2008)

thebikingtechie said:


> There should be should be somewhere, probably in your booth where there's some audio stuff. Microphones don't just auto adjust.


Microphones don't but the systems certainly can. I've done a number of large (24 to 100+ input) audio systems with only a master volume control, between AGCs and automixing you can make a 'hands off' system for many applications where the system does handle the adjustments automatically. Most of these systems were boardroom and conferencing applications and you wouldn't typically want to use this approach for theatrical applications, but it may turn out to be what was installed in this particular case.

Just a suggestion, but before you go making modifications or adding anything to the existing system, you might want to invest some time in determining and documenting what you do have including what equipment is in place and how it is wired. I have a feeling there is some other equipment involved that you haven't noted, like maybe some amplifiers and stuff like that. Knowing what you have and how it is all connected can assist greatly in operating the system effectively now as well as in planning for any potential changes or improvements.


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 19, 2008)

Finally! Some pictures!

First is our stage (sorry about it not being lit) from about half way between it and the doors.

Second is the front of our audio console back stage. Not much, so we rarely use it. The back of it is a tangled confusion of wires and cables. not pictured are the VCR and DVD player that are not hooked up (stacked above the console) and the video inputs for the projector (mounted below)

Third is the XLR panel at the back of the house (all inputs, some believed to be not connected). Next to it is the panel that controls the house lights. Below it is the DMX input (5 pin) for the stage lights.

Fourth is the seating area from as far stage left as I could go. As I've said before, there's no control booth.

Hope these help. I have a few additional pictures, but unnecessary to post. If you want to look at them, I'll PM them to you.


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## Sean (Feb 19, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> Second is the front of our audio console back stage. Not much, so we rarely use it. The back of it is a tangled confusion of wires and cables. not pictured are the VCR and DVD player that are not hooked up (stacked above the console) and the video inputs for the projector (mounted below)
> Third is the XLR panel at the back of the house (all inputs, some believed to be not connected). Next to it is the panel that controls the house lights. Below it is the DMX input (5 pin) for the stage lights.
> Fourth is the seating area from as far stage left as I could go. As I've said before, there's no control booth.
> Hope these help. I have a few additional pictures, but unnecessary to post. If you want to look at them, I'll PM them to you.



Are there additional XLR panels? Do their numbers match the one panel you showed us, or each other? Is there a basement or attic that you can get into? Is there an AV department in your school that can help you?

--Sean


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## avkid (Feb 19, 2008)

zwolf59661 said:


> Second is the front of our audio console back stage. Not much, so we rarely use it. The back of it is a tangled confusion of wires and cables. not pictured are the VCR and DVD player that are not hooked up (stacked above the console) and the video inputs for the projector (mounted below)
> Third is the XLR panel at the back of the house (all inputs, some believed to be not connected).


That is a total hack job.
A 20 channel snake with only 2 channels hooked up.
You could be mixing(albeit side stage) for under a grand.
To fix it correctly with a proper auto mixing system might run twice that.
Apparently the architect was on crack also, cement block walls and a straight balcony.


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## zwolf59661 (Feb 20, 2008)

Sean said:


> Are there additional XLR panels? Do their numbers match the one panel you showed us, or each other? Is there a basement or attic that you can get into? Is there an AV department in your school that can help you?
> 
> --Sean


 Answer to all: no.


avkid said:


> That is a total hack job.
> A 20 channel snake with only 2 channels hooked up.
> You could be mixing(albeit side stage) for under a grand.
> To fix it correctly with a proper auto mixing system might run twice that.
> Apparently the architect was on crack also, cement block walls and a straight balcony.


1. I've never tried all the inputs on the panel to see which ones actually work, nor do I have the desire to. No matter what I find, there's nothing I can do about it.

2. my school can't afford pencils and paper. On top of that, any Arts programs (Drama club, Marching Band, etc.) are on the bottom of the priority list. 

3. Only thing we can do about walls and balcony are remodel. See #2.


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