# How important was your college degree to your career path?



## gafftaper

Let's please make this poll only for people who have been out of college at least 5 years preferably more like 10. People who feel they have really found their place in the industry and their career. 

How important was your college degree? 
Did you get an MFA? BA? BFA? Did it help? 
Do you have a theater degree at all? 
What has been the most significant factor in you reaching your career goals and the position you are in now? Education? Hard work? Dumb luck? 

Please vote above and comment below.

*EDIT: *I want to be clear that I am not by any means saying you should not go to college at all. I agree with Icewolf below about seeing many high school students who come in to college thinking they know it all when they really don't have a clue of how professional theater is run. College is VERY important to the vast majority of us. It just isn't a golden ticket to immediately paying off your $50,000-$100,000 in student loans immediately. You need to be realistic and get the education you can afford then work like crazy and don't worry about getting the bigger degree.


----------



## gafftaper

Explaining my vote: Equally important. 

I do not have a theater degree. I have a History degree and a Masters in Education. Working in educational theater they care that I have a masters degree but don't really care what it is. I got my foot in the door for my current position at a community college because someone looking for tech help on a show called a friend of mine out of the blue and he recommended me for the job. Getting the job had nothing to do with my education, but my degree allowed me Education degree (not theater) allowed me to expand into teaching and other things beyond basic technician work.


----------



## icewolf08

I don't think that I would be where I am today without the formal education that I have in theatre. I have a BFA in theatre production from Ithaca College. While real experience speaks a lot, I think it take a lot longer to reach the same level of knowledge if you don't have formal education. 

I see this all the time in the people who work for me. Bear in mind that most of the people who work for me are in their mid 20s or college age. I have plenty of people with no formal education in theatre, some without any formal education past high school. They are great people, very helpful and very eager to learn. However there are many things that they don't know and that I have less time to teach. This includes, but is not limited to: a real sense of how a design works, how to program, electrical theory, etc. There are definitely times when I wish that I had more people who came in with some of that knowledge.

On the other hand, much of this stuff can be learned on the job and there are many cases where knowing someone gets you in the door. It seems to me though that wile it used to be very true that who you knew and your experience spoke a lot louder than a piece of paper from a school but I think that is changing. I think that people do care about you educational background more today than even 5-10 years ago. So I wouldn't be so quick to discount having a formal education.


----------



## porkchop

I didn't get my degree, and I studied Computer Science and Electrical Engineering, but the three years of education I did get are absolutely crucial to my ability to do my job. From complex math, to advanced problem solving and troubleshooting, to surviving day to day in a more professional environment the things I learned in college help me do my job today. Prior experience, a good resume, and lucky timing got me the job. What I learned in college makes sure I keep it.


----------



## gafftaper

I want to be clear that I am not by any means saying you should not go to college at all. I agree with Icewolf about seeing many high school students who come in to college thinking they know it all when they really don't have a clue of how professional theater is done. College is VERY important. What I am arguing is that unlike other fields it isn't a golden ticket to immediately paying off your $50,000-$100,000+ in student loans. You need to be realistic and get the education you can afford. Work like crazy and don't worry about the fact that you didn't get a degree from a "more respected" institution. 

I know several people with theater degrees who LOVED theater but couldn't afford to work in theater. Unfortunately they had to get other jobs to pay off their theater degree student loans and were not able to get back into theater later.


----------



## derekleffew

Rephrasing the question slightly: Does the majority of your colleagues/co-workers have more or less formal education than you?


----------



## mstaylor

I have no degree or even any college at all. I have learned what I know from practical experience, independant study and an unending thirst to learn. I have been to certification classes for various things to help me along but I have always read everything possible about my business. 
I still agree that a college education is important, but not necessarily in theatre. It helps but an EE degree, business degree or education degree are all good things to help you along and give you a fallback position if needed. 
As an aside, the local college theatre, years ago, was run by all instructors with MFAs or PHDs. Everytime they had a problem they would call me to figure it out for them. Artistically they were great but structure or electrical escaped them.
I mention this not to be arrogant, I just always thought it was ironic that they never learned basic problem solving.


----------



## porkchop

Gaff I couldn't agree with you more, even given the fact that my education has helped me a lot. I've seen numerous stagehands come from a VERY expensive school (I won't name it but it's initials are FS and it's based in Orlando) with a flashy degree and they are next to useless in the professional atmosphere. The experience is great, the things you learn outside of the classroom are often even more useful than the things you learn in it, but if it comes down to working hard to get earn a full time job in the field or going into more debt than you can afford just to complete the degree, I did (and would again) choose the job.
When it comes to choosing a "more respected" institution you have to make a judgement call as well. If you know a little something about the program and you genuinely believe there is something there that you can't get elsewhere (a designer you really respect teaching there, high end equipment you can get hands on experience with, etc...) then it may be worth the extra investment, but if you're just looking at spending more money because you think it means a better chance to make it in the business, well then I will refer you to something that my uncle, who works at college, once told me "Once you try and get a real job the degree is just a check box on the interviewers form."


----------



## Dillon

I'll own up to being the guy that checked "A: wouldn't have my job without my degree." Here's why:

I graduated with a degree in Computer Engineering from a respected state university. The classes that focused on thinking down to very, very small details while maintaining a good view of the "big picture" were the most instrumental parts of my classroom education. 

I did not major in theatre, but I did take a few classes "for fun." Working on productions larger than I had done in high school were great stepping stones to eventually working on even bigger professional productions. Not having worked on those college-level shows, I never would have been able to keep up with the pace of my first real professional gig.

The majority of my co-workers have a bachelor's degree, the majority of which are not theatre-related.


----------



## FatherMurphy

For me, the experiences I had during college are what served me well later on. My BFA degree came from a school with a much higher than usual percentage of theater students and faculty, and they ran the program like a professional house (even the Chair would say that classes were second to production... until the show was over, then he'd be asking why classwork was behind), and after that I did a couple years at an MFA program, where I got involved with the IATSE local.

Neither of the schools taught technical work much past the general Stagecraft 101 level, instead leaving us to learn by doing in the shops (the small private BFA school being better in this regard than the big state MFA school). Over the years, I've been a house electrician, carpenter, cutter/draper in a costume shop, worked and installed flyrails, high rigged, painted, and pretty much anything else... sometimes all on the same day. Most of those tasks are ones I first did while in school, and might not have had a chance to if I had simply gone to work.

My first job was at a community theater that I'd previously been a volunteer at, and my work there got me acquainted with the local production house I've worked at ever since. Having education/degrees helped, but wasn't a deciding factor, other than being part of who I was. My current day-to-day work in rentals and one-offs rarely goes beyond the basics, but every so often I end up using something from a long-ago class to bring a bit more to the table for a project, or use some of my cross training to make life simpler for all.


----------



## ruinexplorer

So, "My college education had very little to do with reaching my career goals" best fits me. First of all, I had no plans on doing theater as a career, it's just what I do. I started school with theater in mind because I enjoyed it in HS and frankly there was more scholarship money in technical theater than there was in Archaeology (Indiana Jones helped to solidify that as a career choice for me, but I already had that in mind before the first movie). So, even though I had offers to better colleges, I stayed local to incur the least amount of debt possible by going to a state college. With an Associates degree under my belt, I went to my dirt digging passion. Needless to say, that's not the direction I ended up going.

So, how did my AA in theater help me with work. Frankly, I doubt that it has done much other than showing employers that I have some theory under my belt and not all on the job training. However, my technical skills in theater have all come from professional experience and workshops. My college did not have a computerized lighting console, but a two-scene preset board. A Mackie 1202 would have easily outperformed our sound console, and we still had to splice reel-to-reel tape when recording our sound effects. I think that we only used a mic once the entire time I was in the program. What my program at my college did for me was give me opportunities. In the two and a half years that I attended, I was able to work in all aspects of the production. Not a lot of larger schools would allow a freshman to be the SM of a large musical. Due to my hard work, I proved my capability and had that opportunity at the end of my first year.

However, the position that I now hold probably did not consider my degree one bit. I have co-workers who don't hold a degree in theater at all (some with no college at all) and others who have advanced degrees. The majority were able to get their position from their hard work and whom they impressed. Now, I work in corporate theater (for profit) and found that when I worked in regional theater (not-for-proit usually) that there was a different outlook on college experience. In fact, there are many regional theaters who will not hire upper level positions without at least a Bachelor's degree in theater, preferring a BFA or MFA. So, by the choice of only obtaining an Associates degree, I have limited myself in some aspects. 

I am not against college education by any means. However, I encourage all students to look at the reason why they choose to go to college. Since education is the only time that you can obtain extremely large sums of money on credit, without proven credit records or a means to pay it back, many students end up failing as has been previously stated because school works against them. If you choose to go to school because you aren't sure what you intend to do in life, or to try new things, or because that seems to be what is expected of you, you might find yourself in quite a lot of debt without means to pay for it. It's wasted money and opportunity. If you want to go to a technical trade school (Full Sail is probably top for this particular industry), then you have a limited time to make the most of it. I find that more students who have a better working knowledge before they go into those programs get a better education from them than those who rely on them for all of their training.

So, depending on your career goals, college may be extremely important, and sometimes it will depend on what school that you go to, such as Yale. On the other hand, college may or may not benefit you at all. Dumb luck and good experience can get you far. Look at Luc LaFortune as an example of a successful designer without a proper education. In some ways, you could consider him as the lottery winner of lighting design since it will be unlikely that any of the rest of us will get that kind of luck. 

My college experience may have given me the tools that I needed to get where I am today, but the degree is not a consideration, and I doubt that it was a consideration to any of my employers as to whether or not they should hire me.


----------



## gafftaper

Dillon said:


> I'll own up to being the guy that checked "A: wouldn't have my job without my degree." Here's why:


 
See you are actually a perfect example of what I want to get across to students thinking about college. Yes your college degree and experience helped prepare you for your work... and A1 on West Side Story national tour is a pretty high up on the cool list for high school students thinking about going into tech by the way. But, like me, you don't have a theater degree. You no doubt learned a few things in your few theater classes you took. But it sounds like it was your hard work outside of class on college productions that really taught you the skills you needed. You don't have to get an MFA or an expensive degree from private school for that. It was the fact that you were immersed in a very good theater program (at a state university no less) that was the most important factor. 


ruinexplorer said:


> So, "My college education had very little to do with reaching my career goals" best fits me.


Thanks buddy I had hoped you would share your story. It's fascinating and another great example of my theory at work.


----------



## Tex

BFA in Theatre - Acting Emphasis
I'm a high school theatre teacher, so I wouldn't have my job without my degree. I think I'm somewhat unusual in the fact that many of the theatre teachers I meet don't have a theatre degree. Texas allows certified teachers to take any other certification tests they choose. I got certified in Technology Applications that way.
I don't think the degree makes me a better teacher, but it does give me the background in theory, analysis and history that teachers from other disciplines may not have. Coming to teaching late after an acting career, I also think I can give students a more realistic perspective about what college theatre and the professional world is really like.


----------



## museav

I think the problem with a poll like this is that the answers are greatly predicated on the unstated caveat of "for what I do" and that the role and area of theatre someone is in, or wants to be in, can strongly influence the responses.

As a Consultant a Bachelor's degree is almost a requisite, I would not have had the opportunities I did starting out without my degree. Those in the consulting field also often have degrees that are not necessarily in theatre, many are in Engineering, Architecture, Music, etc. Somewhat similarly, areas such as theatre education and theatre management may just about require a degree and not necessarily in theatre.

I was lucky enough that much of my college education does directly apply to what I do but I also agree with Cody's comment that the oft overlooked aspects are the underlying approaches and perspectives learned. It took me some years after graduating to fully realize this but at least for me and those I've worked with a college education was not about trying to teach you everything you need to know to do a job, it was much more about gaining the basic background, skills and thought processes to then go out and grow into a job. I've worked with a few people who through their inherent personal perspective and years of self education and informal training gained the same basics, but those are much rarer and most were lucky enough to encounter strong mentors along the way.


----------



## Pie4Weebl

I don't qualify to vote yet, but I still feel compelled to pop in my two cents. (Actually make that one cent, I need the other for my student loans! )

As of present I fall into the category of "school+other factors got me my gig."

My education taught me about the artistic process and gave me design skills for future use. It also gave me four years to interact with people from diverse backgrounds and four years to "grow up" and "find myself", which was very much needed. My side jobs during school gave me the technical knowledge to learn the actual skills of being an electrician and moving light tech. 

I find the value in going to a conservatory or a bigger program, is that you surround yourself with the kinds of talented and passionate people who really want to be there. You can build the starts of a life long network of people you will work with in the future. Not saying this is true of all state school theatre programs, but it seems there is a lot of "well my family wants me to go college and I liked theatre soooo". Its harder to grow with others when you are with people of that. I know of at least one CB member who transfered schools to a larger program because of this problem. 

So how did I get my gig? Well, a Webster alum, as well as someone I networked with through my job both have large pull at the place I now work, and they were able to find a spot for me in the company. 

So do I regret racking up $60K in student debt? No, not really, I won't lie, it is a struggle I fight with, and it requires a lot of due diligence in managing my finances. IL is such a backwards state, that going to a private school cost me just about the same as if I had gone to a state school after the scholarships I got. So my only other option would have been to skip college or go to community college. And when I talk to my friends who took those options they are all the same as they were when we were in HS and haven't had that opportunity for personal growth that college brings.


----------



## meghanpotpie

I think both schools of thought are pertinent. Field experience is a great learning tool but sometimes its just not enough. With more and more theaters pumping out more and more productions in smaller increments of time there doensn't seem to be any time to ask questions anymore. I've been in the field for about 6 years outside of earning my BA and wouldn't give up that time for anything. However, I am finding that in order to get the better gigs I'm still lacking in a lot of areas that I just don't seem to have the time to learn under my current production deadlines. I think if you've been in the field and are learning all you can handle, then wonderful! If you're like me and have been in the field but are still not making gains towards expanding your skills and knowledge then perhaps continuing your formal education is a better option. I'm not saying pick the most expensive fancy school but be smart and research programs. A lot of state schools have wonderful programs based on getting you practical experience.


----------



## Morydd

In all actuality, more than one of the options is accurate for me. In terms of what I actually learned in the theater program at my college, it hasn't been a deciding factor in my career. However, most of the jobs I've had came either directly or indirectly via the people I met in college. I also went to a liberal arts university, so I had a wide array of other educational actives that have benefited me in my career. So, college was vital to my career, but my actual degree was not so much.


----------



## erichart

It's a tricky poll, in that I can't really imagine where I would be without the education I've had. Not that I would be in a worse place, or even that I wouldn't be in theatre, but since my career grew out of my college experience, with each step building on the last, if you take the education component away, the rest would fall like a house of cards. That being said, I think my education (a bachelors degree in theatre and 1 year in grad school before withdrawing) has given me a solid foundation in my everyday work life. Of course, I've also learned much, if not more, on the job. If you're the kind of person who works hard in school, you're probably the type of person who will work hard at everything else. At my level, most, if not all, my colleagues have at least a bachelor's degree. It's not a prerequisite; if you have an impressive career, by the time you're in your late 30s-40s, no one will really care whether you went to school. But as someone in their early 20s, a college degree can be an incredible boost, especially if one is looking for an eventual job in educational theatre or as production staff in regional theatre.


----------



## bishopthomas

My college experience (incomplete computer science major) has nothing at all to do with the career I have made for myself. Before I decided to go to college I considered going to Full Sail but ended up staying in my home town, working my first paid tech job at my church, then marrying my high school girlfriend and moving to New Jersey where I have my sound and lighting company and freelance with other larger companies. At no point has any employer or client asked about college education. They hire me by reputation at this point, but starting out they hired me out of necessity. I was a warm body, proved myself by pushing cases, and here I am...

I usually recommend youngsters to steer clear of the trade schools. A college degree can be useful (I don't have one buy from time to time consider finishing) at some point and some situations, but I don't think a "degree" from a Full Sail type institution holds any weight either in or out of the industry. Everyone I know from Fool Sail is a complete moron who thinks they know it all and are entitled to work. When I get resumes from people with this "accomplishment" I don't necessarily deduct points but I certainly don't award any either. It's work experience and/or a willingness to learn that matters to me.


----------



## DuckJordan

While, I am not answering the poll since i'm not in the demographic. I am, however, going to state something many people who have been to college have learned but this is also a great thread for people in high school and maybe even middle school to know. The biggest misconception i see when people talk about college is its there to teach you everything you know. At the University that I attend they stand by the quote of, we don't teach you everything you need to know, we teach you how to find out new information and teach yourself.

I don't know of a single University that claims to teach you all the things you know about your career but if they are a good university with a large alumni group and most of which became successful, I've noticed tend to teach more about teaching yourself and showing you how to do so. So to me this poll is almost useless in its original thought (not sure if it was or not just what I've seen come from it), and while you learn a lot on the job you most likely will not learn how to do your own research and your own learning without a college degree. This isn't an absolute statement, but I tend to see that in the place I work, the stage hands that went or are going to college have learned how to learn new things while the people who never had the opportunity or want to go to college struggle to embrace new concepts.


----------



## ruinexplorer

DuckJordan said:


> While, I am not answering the poll since i'm not in the demographic. I am, however, going to state something many people who have been to college have learned but this is also a great thread for people in high school and maybe even middle school to know. The biggest misconception i see when people talk about college is its there to teach you everything you know. At the University that I attend they stand by the quote of, we don't teach you everything you need to know, we teach you how to find out new information and teach yourself.
> 
> I don't know of a single University that claims to teach you all the things you know about your career but if they are a good university with a large alumni group and most of which became successful, I've noticed tend to teach more about teaching yourself and showing you how to do so. So to me this poll is almost useless in its original thought (not sure if it was or not just what I've seen come from it), and while you learn a lot on the job you most likely will not learn how to do your own research and your own learning without a college degree. This isn't an absolute statement, but I tend to see that in the place I work, the stage hands that went or are going to college have learned how to learn new things while the people who never had the opportunity or want to go to college struggle to embrace new concepts.


 
I think by your statement that you did miss the point of the poll. Since the poll is rightly biased to professionals who have earned their degree (with the option for those who did not), there is not a contradiction to your point. I would have to somewhat disagree with your university in as much as I feel that High School is your opportunity to "learn how to learn" and college is a place to give you the "building blocks to a career". College doesn't teach you how to do a job, then I worry greatly for the medical community. No, they can't teach you everything, but this is why people seek more advanced degrees, to continue their education. 

The problem with much of American education these days is that it continues to be dumbed down. With ever increasing class sizes, professors cannot teach but instead offer facts that can only be tested through multiple choice exams since they could not grade that number of essays. I would say that I had relatively few courses that required me to think about the subject matter while a majority were there to just regurgitate the information. How many students cram before an exam, just to pass the test? Do you think that this is learning how to teach yourself? What a good college/university should be doing is giving you the tools to become successful in your career. This is why I think that all the programs centered around design are failing their students. They do not offer them the tools to get out into the workforce. If the schools were training good technicians, it would be run more like a vocational program. Personally, I don't know of another success story from my state college's program (besides an actor/director) and the university I went to at one point would refuse to hire the technicians in the theater program to work in the professional roadhouse due to the lack of real world experience. There's a big difference between corporate theater and educational theater, but we use the same building blocks since physics and other sciences are the same.


----------



## DuckJordan

ruinexplorer said:


> I think by your statement that you did miss the point of the poll. Since the poll is rightly biased to professionals who have earned their degree (with the option for those who did not), there is not a contradiction to your point. I would have to somewhat disagree with your university in as much as I feel that High School is your opportunity to "learn how to learn" and college is a place to give you the "building blocks to a career". College doesn't teach you how to do a job, then I worry greatly for the medical community. No, they can't teach you everything, but this is why people seek more advanced degrees, to continue their education.
> 
> The problem with much of American education these days is that it continues to be dumbed down. With ever increasing class sizes, professors cannot teach but instead offer facts that can only be tested through multiple choice exams since they could not grade that number of essays. I would say that I had relatively few courses that required me to think about the subject matter while a majority were there to just regurgitate the information. How many students cram before an exam, just to pass the test? Do you think that this is learning how to teach yourself? What a good college/university should be doing is giving you the tools to become successful in your career. This is why I think that all the programs centered around design are failing their students. They do not offer them the tools to get out into the workforce. If the schools were training good technicians, it would be run more like a vocational program. Personally, I don't know of another success story from my state college's program (besides an actor/director) and the university I went to at one point would refuse to hire the technicians in the theater program to work in the professional roadhouse due to the lack of real world experience. There's a big difference between corporate theater and educational theater, but we use the same building blocks since physics and other sciences are the same.


 

I have to agree to a point, and it may be just a freak occurrence at the university I am attending but, while they do teach us fundamental building blocks the design professors here also teach us how to find our own research for whatever we are doing, which i find in most cases that it is lacking at some of the other schools. I can't count how many times our professor has asked us to write essays on some random tangent he went on and ask us to use outside sources in our arguments or discussions and only include what he has said to relate our information to his. 

So unless the school is really strict on keeping class size I guess, we have the opportunities here that are different from the rest of the nation. 

Just a quick question about your post though, While yes the medical schools teach the basic human functions and they go into detail about some more well known diseases and problems. How many medical courses just give you facts? Our school is our state and area leader for medical research and learning and not a single student gets out of that school without learning how to do their own research. It may be that we are a liberal education based school but every professor here apart from the "strictly" enforced basic math courses require at least 4 essays a semester.


----------



## BrianWolfe

I have a BA and an MFA. My education showed me the way. I am better at what I do because of my education. My degrees have opened some doors because people make assumptions about me based on those degrees. Some of those are probably justified. I can write better because of my education. I showed perseverance in finishing both degrees. I probably would have ended up building houses or furniture had I skipped college which would have been fine but I think I am happier in this job. Every day brings new and interesting challenges. People who visit the shop think I have the best job in the world. More importantly I feel that way most of the time and without college I don't think I would have ever learned that this job was the right one for me.

I work with friends who didn't finish high school. They are wonderfully talented and fabulous at there specialties. But I wouldn't have them answer an RFQ or write a producer soliciting business. The lack of education limits them. I feel the extra education opens more possibilities for me within my field and within my business. If I should loose my job I have more to offer a potential employer which is more important now than ever.


----------



## mstaylor

I agree that college is a good thing, just not a deal breaker. As far as writing ability, college has squat to do with it. I work for several companies and all my bosses have degrees in something. I constantly have to explain basic vocabulary words, correct memos and play IT for them. I will admit they have me on advanced grant searches and other business practices but feet on the ground, getting a show in and out, I kill them. I assist many of them when advancing events to ensure the proper questions are asked and the answers understood.


----------



## Gene

I got a B.S. in math (CSU, 2003)and I have no formal theatrical training. Now I work full time as the assistant technical coordinator at the facility I work at. Before me, the job was called assistant technical director.

My career advancement is a long series of people who had confidence in my abilities asking me to do things I hadn't done before. Typically I state my experience and my limitations and whoever is asking me to do the job assures me that they think I can do it (sometimes if I don't accept then whoever asked me has to do the job.) I do whatever work, ask whatever questions, swallow my pride and ask for help if necessary and get the job done. When the dust settles I have one more person who thinks of me when they want a job done and one less task that intimidates me.

I won't go into details, but I got the job I have now as a result of being perceived as reliable and able to work with others (I like to think both are justified) and being in the right place in the right time.


----------



## mstaylor

I will grant that having a degree will help open doors but as Gene says you have to build your knowledge to keep the job.


----------



## ruinexplorer

DuckJordan said:


> I have to agree to a point, and it may be just a freak occurrence at the university I am attending but, while they do teach us fundamental building blocks the design professors here also teach us how to find our own research for whatever we are doing, which i find in most cases that it is lacking at some of the other schools.
> Just a quick question about your post though, While yes the medical schools teach the basic human functions and they go into detail about some more well known diseases and problems. How many medical courses just give you facts? Our school is our state and area leader for medical research and learning and not a single student gets out of that school without learning how to do their own research.



I guess where we have a difference in our education in that college was not where I learned to research. First of all, back in the day, we didn't have computers to help us research. From elementary school, we had to learn to start with encyclopedias as a reference tool and use the information to search through card catalogs to find books in the library. Later on (junior or senior high school) we had the ability to use computers to search the libraries of neighboring districts in a slightly better manner than the card catalog (still no internet mind you). By the time I was in college, there was no need for a professor to teach me how to research. That foundation was already there. What aggravated me to no end while in school was that the professors were required by the inept students to teach basic skills and information before entering a classroom. There are pre-requisites for a reason. A professor should not have to teach anyone how to research on their own, but help refine the quality of research. 

I know that the work force is changing, even from my parents' time (not to mention from my grandparents' time). My father was able to change careers into a governmental highway engineering position from an elementary education career because he was able to test into it. I doubt that he would even make it past the initial Human Resources department today because they search keywords, including what your college education is, before allowing you to interview. I'm pretty sure that my grandfather never went to college (that was during the Great Depression), but he became one of the nation's leading chemists as well as becoming a college professor (can't even do that with a Bachelor's degree most often these days). This is why many of us say that college _can_ be beneficial, depending on your goals.

I think that your confusion about my medical metaphor is that there are different disciplines of medicine, many of which are more research based and often require additional education and practical experience beyond a Bachelor’s degree. I think that you also confused what I meant about the level of knowledge being disseminated. Let me instead use more of a liberal arts example. I took several courses in Medieval History while in college. As with many history courses that I am sure many of you dread, I would be taught who was king from a certain period (had to know the dates), and what wars were fought during that period (know the dates again), and they would throw in some church history to "round it out". Even when these were upper division courses, I would generally not be given much more than a scan-tron test because the information provided was easily testable that way. However, I had one course that the professor taught us about the _people _that lived during those time periods, giving us a lot of information into understanding the relationships of the varying kingdoms and _why _they would go to war. She gave two exams (mid-term and final), each consisting of a single question, and would give us one week to turn in a 10-page essay on that question. That is problem solving (no additional research required since we had already listened to the lecture and done the readings), since we would utilize the building blocks and create a solution. 


mstaylor said:


> I agree that college is a good thing, just not a deal breaker. As far as writing ability, college has squat to do with it.


This is where I feel that college has a place in preparing you for a career. You should already know how to research before you get to college. It _should_ help you to prepare for a career. In some ways, my education did help me to succeed, just not my degree per se. With my anthropology background, supported by my coursework in comparative religions, I have become a much better manager. Additionally, the courses that I took in professional writing filled in the gaps necessary should I need to write proposals or grants. 
College is what you make of it. Many students fall into the trap of making college an extension of high school. This is why there is a high incidence of freshman failure (first experience of “freedom”, lack of discipline for homework, etc). On the other hand, there are responsible students who also end up not getting the most out of college (me being one of them) by not challenging themselves in their major and taking a lot of courses that sound cool or joining a lot of extra-curricular activities that have nothing to do with their major. However, I believe that students have opportunities at college that you will never have if you don’t go to school and the major one being the ability to fail without consequence. By this, I mean that you have the ability to experiment in your skill set, which is why you pay for this privilege. Since your GPA is the only proof of your abilities (and by mstaylor’s account, that can be misleading), we as a community encourage everyone to get practical experience outside of the classroom to be more successful.


----------



## Khel958

I feel that College education can dictate what and how far you can go. I read a friends post on this forum and he pointed out that without the correct degree certain places will not look at you. He's right.
I personally have a BFA in Tech. Theater from a school that no longer exists and have traveled the world literally. I've spent time as a Performer Rigger/Choreographer, TD, LD, SM for a road house, summer stock costumer, Adjunct professor, ATD for a state university and currently am a project manager for a theatrical supply store. 
What I got from my small college was a wide spectrum of experience in all fields so that when I moved to a new place I looked around and asked "what do they need?" and filled the slot. What I didn't get were contacts and a named school to "back me". It does make personal references much more important.
What I have also found is that without an MFA I have hit a ceiling in my career. Family is very important to me and the sacrifices I would have to make to move above where I am too costly without the MFA.
What education you chose will affect the path you have to take. Many good stage hands do not have degrees. In most cases TD's and SM's will have some sort of degree even if it isn't always in theater. To go above and get into design and college education you’re looking at MFA's. This isn’t always the case but I have been passed over for jobs to have someone younger with no practical experience in theater but have a MFA. The irony is when they find themselves against the wall they call myself and those like me to bail them out.
I will say that there will come a point in all careers that it becomes more important who knows you and who you know than what degree's you have, and if you are persistent enough you can become whoever you want, the degree just helps take bigger steps to get there.


----------



## misterm

my BA in theatre education and masters in education. REALLY wish i had had more hands-on experience outside of the college atmosphere.


----------



## bobcatarts

I finally got my Associates in Arts in '09, was going to college off/on since '99 and been working professionally since '95. 

-How important was your college degree? 
My college degree has only been important in so much as I had to have a degree in _something_ to get hired. Subject was unimportant. This is immensely frustrating - if the subject doesn't matter, how valuable can it be? 

-Did you get an MFA? BA? BFA? Did it help?
Associates - graduated with honors, honors society, etc. 

-Do you have a theater degree at all?
My degree is "Arts" which had a theatre component, but I basically got career credit for that to skip over it. 

-What has been the most significant factor in you reaching your career goals and the position you are in now? Education? Hard work? Dumb luck?
The _connections_ I made in school have been invaluable, as were a very few select skills I would have had a hard time learning on-the-job. The rest is some combination of leveraging opportunity, shameless self promotion and hard, hard work. 

Looking back, I would NOT recommend this path to anyone. Had I the ability, I would have stayed in school and finished my BA. Not having a Bachelor's degree was a tremendous stumbling block early on. I was told more than once, "I would love to hire you, but you need a BA in anything. Doesn't matter what." An Associates is essentially worthless, but it's better than nothing. As I've progressed in my career, I've built a reputation and skill set on my own merits, leveraging whatever I could and jumping on any opportunity. 

The paper is most important, and the connections you make during that time slightly less so. I've met numerous students that learned in near-limitless budget programs, on the most advanced equipment - yet had almost no practical skills, hands-on experience across production disciplines, or the ability to be creative and improvise on no-budget. Others from similar programs could build, light and sound check Rome in a day. Your mileage may vary.

Stay in school, kids. Really.


----------



## Cruiseduck

This is always a tricky question and one I still wrestle with every time I cut a check to the us department of education.
There is no easy answer. Particularly in the cruise industry. 
I started my education in theatre at a very early age. I have been interested in all aspects of the art from an early age. I was one of those cast members who helpped the crew and a crew member who could fill in when a cast member got sick. 
I went to a four year school (SUNY Buffalo) for a BA in theatre, and then to Northwestern for my masters work. After I finished school In between undergrad and graduate school I took a few years off and took a job in the cruise industry. 
I started as a stage hand. UB had very little automated lighting education so I had to learn how to use the HOG on the ship. I spent a lot of time asking myself if the education was worth it, as low man on the totem pole I was making less then $60 a day. However, I was promoted very quickly, and my education had a lot to do with it. My superiors in the corporate office knew that my BA meant training and drive. 
I did one contract and decided to go back to school. After I was done at Northwestern I took a job with another cruise line, this time as a lighting tech. I again started to question if my education was worth the price tag because a large number of other techs in the fleet are people who worked up to the position from stage hands to ASM to auxiliary lounge technicians to lighting or sound techs. 
In the end yes I think my education was worth it. I get to design three to six shows a week, I wake up in a new location every day, and I very proudly get to say that I am paid to work in the arts. In addition to the pervious reasons I believe experience and proper education are more important then experience alone. We work hard and fast. I routinely need to have fixtures repaired in a mater of hours, I usually have just under two hours to program shows, (Granted a lot of my cuing is wash rinse repeat) and I need tone able to cue for acts ranging from musicians, to broadway singers, jugglers, acrobats, and comedians. The skills learned in my schooling are instrumental in keeping me sane.

The best way to answer this question is to quote Rev. Lovejoy from the Simpsons episode "Hurricane Neddy" shot answer with with a but, long answer no with an if


----------



## BillConnerFASTC

Interesting thread. Everyone is different. For me, undergrad and graduate school were essential. Didn't even know what a theatre consultant was or did till after I was in grad school. The networking is essential in my experience and opinion. No idea what I'd be doing if not this but certainly wouldn't be doing this if it weren't for SUNY Potsdam ('74) and Yale School of Drama ('79).


----------



## StNic54

I'd say hs theatre got me interested and developed my passion for live production, undergrad helped me realize how big the world of entertainment could be, and graduate school sharpened my abilities as a designer and communicator. The job market and advances in technology show me daily that no one school or single job can teach you everything you need to know, but instead it's up to me to stay focused and on my game - always learning and never assuming. High school and community theatre led to college, college led to professional work opportunities, pro work and college led to grad school, grad school led me into the job market with a better focus on who I am and what I do. And yes, student loans are nuts and apparently only getting worse for the newer generation.


----------



## ryanswiftjoyner

Essential. I would not have been hired without my MFA, for starters. As you guessed, I work for a university. They wanted a Master Electrician but also someone who could teach the sound design classes and possibly a lighting class every now and again. This worked out perfect for me as I had majored in lighting and sound design in grad school. So that answers the degree part. The actual knowledge I garnered from my BFA and MFA degrees have helped me immensely with bringing the technological know-how of my current department up a notch. It also kicked my ass into respecting time management and work ethic. These were the main skills my degrees helped me learn that aid in my current job: Time management, work ethic, keeping up to date on theatre technology, and learning how I learn.


----------



## sk8rsdad

I am not going to vote since I don't work in the entertainment industry but I felt compelled to comment on said industry from the outside looking in.

Focusing solely on the technical side and excluding the artistic element, I have to question the need or even the value of a Master's 
degree in order to get a job in the entertainment industry. Most of the stage jobs are best taught by apprenticeship, reinforced with some related certification programs for those areas involving life safety issues. A university program seems an expensive option for learning how to push a case, move a piece of scenery, hang and focus a light, build a piece of scenery, program a console, sew a costume, apply makeup, call a show, sell a ticket, mollify a customer, or any of the myriad tasks we all do. 

You don't need a Master's degree to get a job as an engineer who designs the gear, so why on earth do you need a Masters degree to USE the stuff designed by said engineer.


> It is actually a miracle that the modern education system has not yet totally strangled the sacred curiosity that drives human inquiry. -- Albert Einstein



I've donned my flame-retardant underwear.


----------



## justjasen72

I started out in college as an actor, and to make ends meet, I worked in the costume shop. I realized that I enjoyed costume design more than acting, and I had a natural talent for it. I only have my BA, and I am currently the Resident Costume Designer for a small theatre, I would not have this job without my talent and knowledge base.. 

I went to a very small school, that was primarily an acting school. All of the students had to do some technical element on every production, it was sort of like theatre boot camp. Luckily, I was able to intern at the Alabama Shakespeare Festival for a year, and was able to work on several productions and watch the Professional Designers. Almost all of my knowledge base comes from hands on experience and talking to Resident and Guest Designers and watching their individual processes. 

I have designed over 100 shows, taught Costume Design, Make Up Design, Designed for Opera, Operetta, straight plays and Musicals. My education is not classroom based, but without the experiences gained from my college productions, and my natural talent I would not have the experiences to have my job.


----------



## derekleffew

Making the rounds on conservative sites are the thoughts and opinions of TV star Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame on the value of a college education.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/22/mike-rowe-you-dont-have-to-go-to-college/


----------



## Footer

derekleffew said:


> Making the rounds on conservative sites are the thoughts and opinions of TV star Mike Rowe of Dirty Jobs fame on the value of a college education.
> http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/22/mike-rowe-you-dont-have-to-go-to-college/


And keep in mind that he has a communications degree from Towson Univ, one of the top public schools in the country. He is a classically trained Opera singer and worked professionally as an Opera singer for some time. 

So the real lesson should be "Go get a degree in theatre/communications/music then try to get a reality show. 

He has some points, but the kids who are going to grow up to be "makers" and teach themselves are going to do that no matter what. I also really don't believe his "you don't need a degree" figures. Seems rather high to me. 

We have a larger issue that he is not touching on. Secondary education is completely setup to get people into college and that is it. You can't expect a system setup to do that to produce kids who can hit the workforce and just figure it out. Some can, but not all can. Until we flip high schools on their head and start training differently nothing is going to change there. 

I will still argue that the people who are actually working in our industry could have gotten there without the piece of paper. Out of my graduating class everyone who took the leading role day one of freshman year are still working. Those who did not never made after graduation. 

We need to move high school to the point where engineering schools are. They teach you how to learn. They don't get very specific but give you a taste of everything. After that, they expect your employer to give you some time to get your bearings before you dig in. No matter what, someone is going to be paying for your education, be it you or your employer.


----------



## TheaterEd

I didn't realize that I never responded after taking the survey.

My degree is the only reason I am where I am today. I graduated from UW-Milwaukee with a Theater Education degree almost exactly 5 years ago. After a year of unemployment and working my crappy college jobs I got my first 'real' job as a part time performing arts center manager for a high school located 1.5 hours away. The commute sucked, but it was 24 hours a week and paid more than my other two jobs combined. I firmly believe that the main reason I got that job, other than my awesome interview skills, is because I am the only person with this degree that applied. Everyone else either didn't have a theater background or didn't think the position should be part-time (they were right). The only previous experience I brought to the job was from my student teaching, and a couple of freelance gigs that I got at the school I student taught at. If nothing else, college gave me the ability to teach myself and over the 2.5 years I spent there, I thrived and grew immensely.

I used the experience that I gained running that PAC to get hired as a full time Auditorium manager / Tech theater teacher at a different school district closer to my home. Once I left they replaced me with two different employees, and at the end of the school year they bumped one of them up to full time.

Although a part of me wishes I would have pursued a professional carrier, I highly doubt I could afford to pay back my student loans if I had. This was the one path I could see that would allow me to make enough to provide for my family, and pay back my debt. I am definitely the exception though. The majority of people I went to school with are not able to support themselves within the theater education community. The jobs are slowly coming back, but for a good couple of years, they were non-existent.

All of that said, I could not possibly be happier with where I am. I get to do EVERYTHING working with tech while spreading my love of theater to the next generation and continuously building my portfolio and learning new skills. Added bonus, I have most of the summer off so I have time to act when the bug bites me


----------



## What Rigger?

Stumbled into an acting class in college, because one of my better math teachers in high school told me that when I got to college to "do things you wouldn't normally do". And the next thing I know, I had a BA in directing/acting- with all of my hands on experience coming as crew/stage management. Got out of school, and started all over again working for free, to learn more of what I needed and eventually that led to the whole rigging/flying thing.

The experience is priceless, but if I hadn't had such a great program in school, how might I have ever fallen in love with all this?

Also? Don't forget that the purpose of a University/college, is not to train you for work. It's purpose is to train you to think.

Just sayin'.....


----------



## Lextech

Undergrad degree, zero. Job in college, 100%. I got a job freshmen year at the university production company. Worked 30 plus hours a week and learned the business. Fell in love with mixing and made a career out of it. After college, got the assistant manager job in the department and went got a master's in a television because I wanted to add video to my productions. Took the manager's job when it came about, got an IA card and learned lighting. I been doing this for 30 years now, wouldn't trade it for anything.


----------



## squirt4444

icewolf08 said:


> I don't think that I would be where I am today without the formal education that I have in theatre. I have a BFA in theatre production from Ithaca College. While real experience speaks a lot, I think it take a lot longer to reach the same level of knowledge if you don't have formal education.
> 
> I see this all the time in the people who work for me. Bear in mind that most of the people who work for me are in their mid 20s or college age. I have plenty of people with no formal education in theatre, some without any formal education past high school. They are great people, very helpful and very eager to learn. However there are many things that they don't know and that I have less time to teach. This includes, but is not limited to: a real sense of how a design works, how to program, electrical theory, etc. There are definitely times when I wish that I had more people who came in with some of that knowledge.
> 
> On the other hand, much of this stuff can be learned on the job and there are many cases where knowing someone gets you in the door. It seems to me though that wile it used to be very true that who you knew and your experience spoke a lot louder than a piece of paper from a school but I think that is changing. I think that people do care about you educational background more today than even 5-10 years ago. So I wouldn't be so quick to discount having a formal education.


 

I actually learned a lot of technical knowledge while working under Ice Wolf during my degree. Completely agree with his statement. I would say having experience in professional theatre before or during your degree was some of the most helpful to direct your studies. Without the formal education it can work but requires a lot of drive, patience, and time spent seeking out resources to learn the things you may miss out on by not having that structured learning.


----------



## JD

My own opinion on collage:
If you have a clear idea of what you want to do with your life (Dr., Lawyer, NASA scientist, etc.) then you will benefit greatly by choosing the right collage.
If you do not have a clear idea of what you want to do, then DON'T GO just for the sake of going!

I remember a girl I knew that spent a ton of money studding Mayan culture. She was shocked that there was not a long list of employers looking for someone with this skill. Collage is a huge investment and most likely you will spend a lot of your life energy paying back that bill. The "trades" (as it is known) appear to be shunned as some form of inferior education. Apprenticeship is also shunned as a waste of time. Yet, take a look at what a skilled electrician, plumber, or auto mechanic make. CAT is dying to find skilled machinists and offers a 6 digit starting salary. Military service can set you up for life (thinking about the helicopter mechanic I know.) I have a friend who lost his job at a custom auto shop. He was unemployed for 45 minutes! (Drove by another shop on his way home and was hired on the spot.) 
Collage is great for some people, but only if you know you will be able to USE that education as a life skill. People appear to be brainwashed that Collage is the only way to go. I disagree! For 20 years I worked in electronic service (company owner) and I can't tell you how many servicers I hired fresh from their electrical engineering degree, only to find out they could not diagnose there way out of a paper bag when they sat down at the bench.


----------



## gafftaper

JD said:


> Collage is great for some people, but only if you know you will be able to USE that education as a life skill. People appear to be brainwashed that Collage is the only way to go.


Well said John. For some careers college is essential, but for tech theater it's much more murky as to how much that degree will help you. While some may think I'm anti-college because of the things I've said above, I think a B.A. paired with a lot of simultaneous work in the real world is the best route. I manage a High School PAC, there was a kid who was a student here three years ago, he was a great tech kid and after graduation became part of the paid staff while attending the local community college. Over the last two years he worked a LOT of hours on probably a couple hundred gigs. Now he's off to the other side of the state to work on his B.A. for two years. Over the summer and on the breaks, I'm putting him to work for me as much as possible. By the time he graduates he will have a B.A. and 4 years of experience working in a very busy High School PAC... and I'm waiting for him to return so I can use him even more if he still wants to work for me. What a great way to start your career.


----------



## NevilleLighting

I am a professor so I am confronted with this question often when students are burned out, getting carp jobs and wondering why they should finish the degree and get the paper. That happens most often when those students have taken all of the theatre classes that interest them and are left with the ones they don't want to take and additional general education classes. (I teach at a liberal sorts university). My reply is always the same. A college degree will not, by itself, land you a job. However, not having a college degree can keep you from getting a job. I have a former student that never graduated but is seriously considering coming back because he is finding job opportunities closed to him because he doesn't have the paper, especially in the corporate world. This is a competitive field and you need every advantage you can get.


----------



## NevilleLighting

And, relating to my post and others I read COLLEGE WILL NOT TEACH YOU EVERYTHING! Get out there and work while you are in college if you possibly can. Even though I teach in a BFA program I consider a tech theatre program to be a weird bastardization between an arts/philosophy degree and votech.


----------



## burgherandfries

I have a B.F.A. in Stage Management and I know that I wouldn't have gotten to where I am without it; or at least I wouldn't have gotten here as quickly as I did. When I look at resumes for a new-hire technician, I see education in the field as an easy way to quantify their general knowledge. I like to know that my new ME/SM/TD has a foundation in the theory of other departments. Don't get me wrong, industry experience is a huge factor, too. I wouldn't be inclined to hire a new college grad who hasn't done any work outside of school.


----------



## WayfarerAM

I'm really not sure how I feel about my degree. Helpful yes, essential not sure. I'm still working at the same job that put me through my final two years of college in the field (Theater Arts/Technical Theater) of my degree. I was working professional in live events/ theater all the way through college to pay for it and graduate without debt. However, I think that if I hadn't gone to school I wouldn't have been exposed to some of the things that I have been. So I helped fill out some areas of knowledge.

A degree isn't everything and not the soul source of qualifications. I graduated with people whom I would never hire professionally because they just didn't know how to work. There are other ways to get the knowledge, but work ethic is essential and that won't come from a degree.


----------



## tekgoddess

During my undergrad work I was an Acting/Director major. Which shows how long ago this was. I was so interested in* All* *Things Theatre http:/wwwtekgoddess.com* that I took every tech course allowed and just lived at the theatre and learned a lot. Much of my lighting knowledge was learned on top of a ladder. BUT with a new theatre built in 2004, I was completely out of the loop for DMX and so-called "intelligent" fixtures I knew I needed more training.

I attended grad school for three summer intensives as well as some distant learning. BEST THING I EVER DID. Being in Educational Theatre forever was a joy and new technology constantly challenged me. With my MoTS degree (Maters of Theatre Studies) I jumped into a whole new world of lighting theory, DMX, and became more skilled at the other disciplines where I was already pretty competent. I could now not only read a light plot and set design I could competently design to _USITT _standards.

I found no Equity houses gave a rat's a__ about a performance degree. They do, however, seem to value a tech degree. Work ethic cannot be denied. My Grad School does not allow you to goof off or you're gone and lose a great deal of money in tuition. So if you can, especially while you're young, DO BOTH. Take a course before you commit to a degree seeking Diploma. Some universities have REALLY BAD professors. I have encountered English teachers who became university tech theatre people because, well, "they know about Shakespeare". My Stagecraft students could run circles around them and have color and gobo changes to show their incompetence.

Be very careful about Pro Bono work unless it is something you will enjoy and get your name around. Especially you young'uns. I found that working for free once or twice (More fool me) implies you'll always work for free. Make your fees and hours known when you get the job. Many Community Theatres are delighted to have volunteers for tech work. They can be a great place to "make your bones".

Don't give up and _DON'T WORK ON ANYTHING THAT IS NOT SAFE!!!_ Really, you can die.


----------



## Henning

So I'm a senior in High School who want's to go into Technical Theater. I love the Long hours, the hard work and I would rather be in a job I love then have a fat paycheck. That being said I have a few concerns.

For the first two years of High School, I didn't realize how important My GPA was. Now that I'm looking at schools, its starting to bite me in the ass. Right now I've applied and been accepted to a local community college with a well respected theater program.

The Pro's and Con's of the school are the following:

PRO'S
1. Close proximity to Minneapolis/St. Paul. I would have the chance to look for side jobs and calls.

2. Highly regarded Theater Program (for a community College)

3. The ability to keep my current Job while going to school.

CON'S

1. Only offers a associates Degree.
2. Community College (I don't know how the industry feels about them)

Finally, where I want to be in the future:

Last winter I was given the chance to be board OP at the Guthrie theater (for my schools one act). While I've worked on community theater shows before, Professional theater was a totally different beast, and I fell in love. I knew then and there I wanted to work at the highest level possible and I would work as hard as possible to get there. But is my current options (community college + as much work experience as I can find) get me there?


----------



## Pie4Weebl

Henning said:


> So I'm a senior in High School who want's to go into Technical Theater. I love the Long hours, the hard work and I would rather be in a job I love then have a fat paycheck. That being said I have a few concerns.
> 
> For the first two years of High School, I didn't realize how important My GPA was. Now that I'm looking at schools, its starting to bite me in the ass. Right now I've applied and been accepted to a local community college with a well respected theater program.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, where I want to be in the future:
> 
> Last winter I was given the chance to be board OP at the Guthrie theater (for my schools one act). While I've worked on community theater shows before, Professional theater was a totally different beast, and I fell in love. I knew then and there I wanted to work at the highest level possible and I would work as hard as possible to get there. But is my current options (community college + as much work experience as I can find) get me there?



I would say the most important thing in this case would be to ask what level the faculty are working at. Do they have adjunct staff who is active in the scene around MN who could get your foot in the door once you graduate?


----------



## robartsd

Community college is a great, low-cost way to get started in college. Start researching transfer options for four-year schools you'd like to attend and be sure to choose your community college coarses carefully - not all courses that count towards your two year degree transfer to completing the first two years of a four year degree. With good grades in community college, you should be able to prove to some of the four-year programs you are interested in that you are worth admitting (if you're still interested). I know I wouldn't have been admitted to the university I attended if it weren't for my community college work - absolutely no way my high school transcripts would get me in.


----------



## Lextech

An associates degree is a great first step. The advantage of it is that many universities will look at your transcript from community college and if there is a significant GPA change they will worry less about your high schools grades and you can transfer into a 4 year program. That being said you may find a job on an associates degree. Or you may take a non theater class and fall in love with a different profession. I think college is very useful in this profession, not just theater classes either. Knowing the math and physics behind how and why we do things like rigging has saved my butt many times. History classes have helped me do period show designs. English classes have helped me communicate me thoughts clearly in production meetings. Go to college, take classes all over the place not just theater and you will have a good start to working in this business.


----------



## garyvp

I am a mostly an irrelevant outsider to this discussion, but here goes. My degree is in business admin, majors in math and finance. My real job is a financial technologist. The reason I am a TD in theater is that I have superior hands-on technical skills (strong electrical and carpentry skills from my geeky youth and early construction jobs), have always liked theater, and married into one, and have the free time to commit to it. But it is a community theater. However, most of the other folk working at the local community theaters in the NYC have MFAs or other relevant degrees - they studied for this although they have other real jobs outside of theater. A few of our guest lighting techs are academically and professionally trained, but most are not. The only professionally trained TDs I have met are on this blog, and I have never met a professional TD or a union tech. Most of the small theaters around here do not have real TDs and most that do are far less technical then myself.

I also find it interesting that, aside from two journeyman small theater professional set designer/builders (who make a living out of this), most academically trained set designers that have worked (volunteered) for us have minimal or no technical skills (which is useless in small theaters like ours - a design alone will not get too far unless you bring a crew). Several local colleges sent some students and they knew nothing about implementation. Whereas the scenic designers are more hands on and want to touch the work and know how to mix paint, paint a stone wall, stiple and marbelize a wall. Degreed lighting designers all know how to hang and focus, and program a board (if you can't hang, then you can't design here - it is a package deal).


I found many of the comments in this thread interesting - I was always curious about this.


----------



## ruinexplorer

Henning said:


> So I'm a senior in High School who want's to go into Technical Theater. I love the Long hours, the hard work and I would rather be in a job I love then have a fat paycheck.
> 
> Finally, where I want to be in the future:
> 
> Last winter I was given the chance to be board OP at the Guthrie theater (for my schools one act). While I've worked on community theater shows before, Professional theater was a totally different beast, and I fell in love. I knew then and there I wanted to work at the highest level possible and I would work as hard as possible to get there. But is my current options (community college + as much work experience as I can find) get me there?



It really depends on what you want to do with your career. I have an Associate's degree from a four-year college (they also offered Bachelor's degrees). I work as a technician for a reputable production company. I got to where I am through work experience. However, they have also hired a number of people with more education and less experience. A lot of production companies look for specific skills, which may or may not be learned in an educational setting. 

If you are looking to work in a LORT type company, then you will want more educational experience as that is what they look for. I was a technical director at a theater that had a LORT B theater company that had residence in one of the theaters. I wouldn't have been able to hold as high of a position if I worked directly for the theater company simply due to which degree I obtained. It's good to look and see what position you want to hold and check with HR of that company to see what education is required of that position. That will help you decide if you want to transfer after your two year degree or get out into the work force.


----------



## burgherandfries

Henning said:


> So I'm a senior in High School who want's to go into Technical Theater. I love the Long hours, the hard work and I would rather be in a job I love then have a fat paycheck. That being said I have a few concerns.
> 
> For the first two years of High School, I didn't realize how important My GPA was. Now that I'm looking at schools, its starting to bite me in the ass. Right now I've applied and been accepted to a local community college with a well respected theater program.
> 
> The Pro's and Con's of the school are the following:
> 
> PRO'S
> 1. Close proximity to Minneapolis/St. Paul. I would have the chance to look for side jobs and calls.
> 
> 2. Highly regarded Theater Program (for a community College)
> 
> 3. The ability to keep my current Job while going to school.
> 
> CON'S
> 
> 1. Only offers a associates Degree.
> 2. Community College (I don't know how the industry feels about them)
> 
> Finally, where I want to be in the future:
> 
> Last winter I was given the chance to be board OP at the Guthrie theater (for my schools one act). While I've worked on community theater shows before, Professional theater was a totally different beast, and I fell in love. I knew then and there I wanted to work at the highest level possible and I would work as hard as possible to get there. But is my current options (community college + as much work experience as I can find) get me there?


 It's all about how you use it. If you make the most of all the experience you can get, you'll go far. As far as an Associate's vs. Bachelor's, of course having the B.A. or the B.F.A. is going to be regarded as better than the A.A., but it may also free you up for more work experience. The way I look at it, if you want to get to the "highest level" possible, the better degree will probably get you there faster. If you want to be a manager of some sort or eventually teach, go for the degree. If you want to be a kick-ass technician. take the experience.


----------



## Henning

While I haven't been talking with the staff themselves, one of my directors from high school directs shows professionally in the cities and has great praise for their TD. 

I should also mention I have a ton of experience on the high school level. While I've worked all the schools productions, I've also found myself on the theaters facilities staff. Giving me what I feel is a good relationship with a few people professionals in the area. My only question about this is, do most professionals view this experience as credible? Obviously I don't know everything, but I feel this gives me a "competitive edge" against other kids my age trying to get into the industry. Am I wrong? will I get laughed at if I consider this as experience?


----------



## burgherandfries

Henning said:


> While I haven't been talking with the staff themselves, one of my directors from high school directs shows professionally in the cities and has great praise for their TD.
> 
> I should also mention I have a ton of experience on the high school level. While I've worked all the schools productions, I've also found myself on the theaters facilities staff. Giving me what I feel is a good relationship with a few people professionals in the area. My only question about this is, do most professionals view this experience as credible? Obviously I don't know everything, but I feel this gives me a "competitive edge" against other kids my age trying to get into the industry. Am I wrong? will I get laughed at if I consider this as experience?


No! You're spot on. Experience is experience and it sounds like you have more than most high school grads looking to get into the industry.


----------



## MadADDer

I don't have a degree at all, I have a Community college diploma for electronics technician, specializing in computers. While in college, I landed a role in a community theater production, and caught the bug. It wasn't long before I got backstage talking shop with the Electricians, and not long after that that I was lighting tech for the next show.

A few years -- and a few cities -- later, I started working as a lighting tech on a contract basis, eventually landing the gig I have now. It's still part-time, but it is a steady paycheck.


----------



## robartsd

MadADDer said:


> I don't have a degree at all, I have a Community college diploma for electronics technician, specializing in computers.


Do you mean that you have a diploma for a certificate program rather than a diploma for an associates degree program. Many colleges (especially community colleges) offer some of their programs with in a degree program as we'll as a certificate program. Usually the certificate program has all the same core major requirements, but very little (if any) general education requirements. A certificate program is great for someone who has limited resources (time and/or money) for school but needs to show potential employers that they have aquired a certain skill. A degree would indicate to employers that the candidate is also capable of general learning/thinking as well as any skills specific to the major.


----------



## Ford

Henning said:


> So I'm a senior in High School who want's to go into Technical Theater...
> 
> Last winter I was given the chance to be board OP at the Guthrie theater (for my schools one act). While I've worked on community theater shows before, Professional theater was a totally different beast, and I fell in love. I knew then and there I wanted to work at the highest level possible and I would work as hard as possible to get there. But is my current options (community college + as much work experience as I can find) get me there?



Hi Joseph,
Your community college degree, with work experience will be enough to get you started in the industry, if you work hard, and have a great attitude. Take classes outside of your major. the perspective that you can gain from classes in Art and History is as important as any education that you get from your core classes...possibly more so when you encounter situations where there is not a formula that you can plug in to get your answers.

That said... I agree with the others that have said that transferring to a Bachelors program after you get your Associates is not difficult, if that is what you want to do. If you have good grades in college, they will outweigh the bad grades you had in High School. Do not underestimate the value of a face to face meeting with the professors at the school that you plan to transfer to (if you decide to go that route).

Returning to my original point though... In my experience (which is completely subjective), our industry is much like the rest of life... you get out of it what you put into it. If you truly like what you're doing, and you work hard, and you listen, and you show-up ready to work (not show-up in time to take a bathroom break, grab a cup of coffee, and then put on your toolbelt), then you will get opportunities, and the people above you will want to hire you to work on their crews. once you get to the crew-chief level, your education will become more valuable (as a door opener).

Finally, remember that being a student does not end when you stop going to school.
Keep learning.
Keep pushing yourself.
Read, pay attention to the news, watch Youtube videos, study everything from art, to networking (human and electronic), to photography and video production, to audio (if you're in to that sort of thing), go to concerts, see movies and plays, keep your eyes open... DO NOT STAGNATE
All of it will add up to making you a well rounded person who will have the best chance at excelling in whatever field you end up in (I'm partial to lighting, myself).

-Ford


----------



## MadADDer

robartsd said:


> Do you mean that you have a diploma for a certificate program rather than a diploma for an associates degree program.


It was a certificate program. The college I went to didn't offer a degree program at the time. My instructor was huge on the thinking for yourself aspect, though, and taught us not only what to look for when you got stuck, but how to look for it. 15 years later, I'm still learning more and more about the things that he taught me. (Of course it doesn't hurt that my boss is a retired electrical engineer. I learn a lot from him, too.)


----------



## RonaldBeal

Background:
After high school (Thomas County Central High School, Thomasville, GA) I went to Middle Tennessee State University, in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, just south of Nashville, majoring in Mass Communications/Entertainment Technology, as part of their Recording Industry Management program. I also got a job at the theater on campus. I started doing lights, sound, and audio studio recording. When USITT held their event in Nashville (it was either 1993, or 1994,) Vari-Lite rented our theater to do demos of their new series 300 system and the relatively new VL-5's. That following summer, I applied to work in the Vari-Lite Nashville shop, and started working as a shop tech, and eventually started touring. I have been gigging ever since, and have been lighting crew chief on some of the largest tours in the world. 

My college experience gave me access to the folks at Vari-Lite, which allowed me to get my starting job. What I learned in the entertainment business law classes, and theater drafting classes have been valuable during my career, but not essential. I never finished to get a degree, and I would say that the degree itself holds little value in this business. The education itself, and the exposure it gives, on the other hand can be priceless.

On major tours, I have worked with people with degrees in physics, political science, art history, economics, business administration, and philosophy. I have also worked with a fair bit of prior military service folks. Quite a few people I worked with have come from MTSU's Recording Industry Management program. Even more have been Full Sail graduates. Almost every one says the education they got there was not helpful, but the access and exposure to the industry definitely helped. Interestingly, I tend to see theater majors most often as local stagehands, but can't think of one that I have actually toured with, that stuck to the business. (maybe rock and roll doesn't suit their taste, and they stick with more "traditional" theater.)

Just my $0.02

Regards
RB


----------

