# Fake/clone Avolites



## Lyle Williams (Nov 9, 2017)

Has anyone had any experience with clone lighting consoles like:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ller-With-Flight-Case/527466_32817268898.html


----------



## JohnD (Nov 9, 2017)

In my opinion, buyer beware. Console makers are taking a proactive stance on clone makers. MALighting is one company doing this, they can take legal action against both importers and end users. Avolites has an activation process which used to require you to provide a valid serial number and sometimes a photo of the back panel for full activation. Not sure how this is handled currently, you could always ask. Can the software be updated, new profiles added?


----------



## cbrandt (Nov 9, 2017)

Generally those fake avos are all running the classic version of the software that did not require activation. Basically anything on the newer Titan OS requires it. We've ran across a few in the wild. From a distance they look right, but the second you put your hands on them they just feel wrong. The faders are all cheap and stick. The buttons don't feel right and don't click down well or have a good activation. Most companies that sell or use real avos will report a desk like that when they run across them. At least in the US, they are pretty aggressive about finding and removing them.

You get what you pay for. You might get dmx out of those, but you're not really going to like the results. You'd be a lot happier finding an old expert for sale.


----------



## rsmentele (Nov 9, 2017)

I've been told by Avo that their consoles are the #1 counterfeited in the world....
They have updated the software to recognize when it's not loaded onto an authorized computer and it kills itself. Never buy an Avo without seeing it with your own eyes. And open it up too. Since they manufacture all the PCB's they have Avo stamped all over them. The fake ones do not.

Know a guy that bought a fake one... Worked great, until it didn't... in the middle of a show..... Not fun for him


----------



## Lyle Williams (Nov 9, 2017)

Visually it's not an exact copy. It's also 85% cheaper. Thought I would ask anyway...


----------



## Lyle Williams (Nov 10, 2017)

It's more desk than I want. I'm probably headed towards a Mantra lite, at about the same price point.


----------



## Chris Pflieger (Nov 10, 2017)

Being Australian, you might be able to tell me how this compares to the Jands Vista console line.


----------



## Lyle Williams (Nov 10, 2017)

I am trying to find something intuitive that kids could use to control led pars and moving heads.

The lights currently are controlled by software I have written that outputs DMX directly (well, Artnet directly...) That's good in that I can make the lights do absolutely anything. That's bad because only I can delve into the code and write new movements.

My goal is to find a controller that a novice could program and operate on the spot, assuming all the patchng was already done. The big classic consoles don't seem like that to me. They are a powerful tool for a skilled operator who has put serious time into learning their operation


----------



## techieman33 (Nov 10, 2017)

I think AVO is about as intuitive as it gets, but there is always going to be some learning curve for things like this.


----------



## JohnD (Nov 10, 2017)

Lyle Williams said:


> I am trying to find something intuitive that kids could use to control led pars and moving heads. My goal is to find a controller that a novice could program and operate on the spot, assuming all the patchng was already done. The big classic consoles don't seem like that to me. They are a powerful tool for a skilled operator who has put serious time into learning their operation


Have you looked at the Cognito2, It looks like both Jands and Barbizon Australia are dealers. It has a good reputation for ease of use.


----------



## TimMc (Nov 11, 2017)

I'm not a lighting guy (I can hang/circuit/focus/gel but not a console programmer) but I've noticed that the LDs either love (few) or hate (most) Avo desks. They seem really British is that most stuff seems backwards or otherwise counterintuitive (the Midas of lights?) when compared to other desks.

OTOH, I've not had to help fix an Avo desk, unlike Road Hogs and a couple others. I've gotten pretty good spotting mother board issues related to flaky connections, unseated memory and loose parts banging around inside.... In the race to price point have manufacturers forgotten these products are bouncing around in trucks and vans, operated by stagehands... or worse? /sarc

The Chinese knockoff biz is huge and the products are showing up more and more in the USA. I was a hired gun sound guy at a newish casino with a "JBL 4778/SRX728 PA". Lights were no name LEDs with a Grand MA. Out of this whole installation the only genuine products were the MA and I think the Crown power amps. The JBL speakers were knock offs, the subs were knock offs and the whole thing sounded terrible. I spent the first 2 hours trying to make it sound right (or at least like the brand/model it appeared to be) and it was mostly a Quixotic endeavor. Bah, humbug.


----------



## RonHebbard (Nov 11, 2017)

TimMc said:


> I'm not a lighting guy (I can hang/circuit/focus/gel but not a console programmer) but I've noticed that the LDs either love (few) or hate (most) Avo desks. They seem really British is that most stuff seems backwards or otherwise counterintuitive (the Midas of lights?) when compared to other desks.
> 
> OTOH, I've not had to help fix an Avo desk, unlike Road Hogs and a couple others. I've gotten pretty good spotting mother board issues related to flaky connections, unseated memory and loose parts banging around inside.... In the race to price point have manufacturers forgotten these products are bouncing around in trucks and vans, operated by stagehands... or worse? /sarc
> 
> The Chinese knockoff biz is huge and the products are showing up more and more in the USA. I was a hired gun sound guy at a newish casino with a "JBL 4778/SRX728 PA". Lights were no name LEDs with a Grand MA. Out of this whole installation the only genuine products were the MA and I think the Crown power amps. The JBL speakers were knock offs, the subs were knock offs and the whole thing sounded terrible. I spent the first 2 hours trying to make it sound right (or at least like the brand/model it appeared to be) and it was mostly a Quixotic endeavor. *Bah, humbug.*


 @TimMc Give or take ten years ago. I was doing installations for a very reputable A/V installation company who'd been awarded the contract to install about 16 QSC amps, including two PL6's and twenty JBL full range and sub cabinets. ALL of the QSC amps were delivered in factory sealed cartons with the serial numbers matching the amps in the cartons. Exactly as you'd expect. 
The JBL enclosures were a totally different experience. I'd been a JBL supporter and owner for at least 3 decades at that point and was TOTALLY SHOCKED at the products, and cartons, delivered. We received cartons from no fewer than four warehouses with some units from as far away as Rome and this was an installation in a 2181 seat soft-seater road-house in downtown Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. We uncrated all of the cabinets on stage and opted to run pink and SMAART them prior to installation. In general, the speakers arrived in good physical condition within their mostly damaged packaging but I was expecting JBL's more normal perfection and was quite shocked to find at least three units with serious flaws: *Serious flaws:* Things like mis-wired Speakons with different frequency ranges of drivers on different contacts between identical cabinets of the same model. Drivers that failed to produce audio out of the box due to having become disconnected, possibly during shipping. Cabinets with twin 12" or 15" drivers wired with oposing polarity while other identical cabinets were wired with both cones working together with like polarities. We even had one cabinet arrive with loose parts rattling around in the cabinet. We opted to reassemble the parts as at least they were all there we just weren't expecting to receive a kit. We installed everything as best we could with most of the amps and BSS crosover and delay electronics in two racks located in the attic where fan noise wouldn't be an issue and conduit and wiring runs were shorter to flown clusters and the 2nd balcony fills. We located the PL6's in an existing basement rack where the conduit and 12 gauge wiring runs were shorter for the subs. I've heard the system was totally replaced within a few years by another brand D&B possibly. To this day, I'm still totally stunned by the condition of the JBL products we received. They definitely weren't my granddaddy's (or my) JBL's. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


----------



## TimMc (Nov 12, 2017)

RonHebbard said:


> @TimMc Give or take ten years ago. I was doing installations for a very reputable A/V installation company who'd been awarded the contract to install about 16 QSC amps, including two PL6's and twenty JBL full range and sub cabinets. ALL of the QSC amps were delivered in factory sealed cartons with the serial numbers matching the amps in the cartons. Exactly as you'd expect.
> The JBL enclosures were a totally different experience. I'd been a JBL supporter and owner for at least 3 decades at that point and was TOTALLY SHOCKED at the products, and cartons, delivered. We received cartons from no fewer than four warehouses with some units from as far away as Rome and this was an installation in a 2181 seat soft-seater road-house in downtown Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. We uncrated all of the cabinets on stage and opted to run pink and SMAART them prior to installation. In general, the speakers arrived in good physical condition within their mostly damaged packaging but I was expecting JBL's more normal perfection and was quite shocked to find at least three units with serious flaws: *Serious flaws:* Things like mis-wired Speakons with different frequency ranges of drivers on different contacts between identical cabinets of the same model. Drivers that failed to produce audio out of the box due to having become disconnected, possibly during shipping. Cabinets with twin 12" or 15" drivers wired with oposing polarity while other identical cabinets were wired with both cones working together with like polarities. We even had one cabinet arrive with loose parts rattling around in the cabinet. We opted to reassemble the parts as at least they were all there we just weren't expecting to receive a kit. We installed everything as best we could with most of the amps and BSS crosover and delay electronics in two racks located in the attic where fan noise wouldn't be an issue and conduit and wiring runs were shorter to flown clusters and the 2nd balcony fills. We located the PL6's in an existing basement rack where the conduit and 12 gauge wiring runs were shorter for the subs. I've heard the system was totally replaced within a few years by another brand D&B possibly. To this day, I'm still totally stunned by the condition of the JBL products we received. They definitely weren't my granddaddy's (or my) JBL's.
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard.



The installation I'm referring to pretty obviously is faked - in the center of the grille over the 4887 woofers, the initials JBL are usually die cut into the grille but not with these. The SpeakOn panel is completely different; the rigging hardware on the cabinets is different, too. Likewise on the subwoofer grilles there is no die cut logo.

I'm not sure about the "I-Tech HD" power amps as they're all 4x3500 and we don't use that model... and I couldn't get a good look in the back of the rack. Next time I'm there I'll try to connect my laptop to an amp and see what happens in Audio Architect.


----------



## Crisp image (Nov 12, 2017)

Lyle Williams said:


> I am trying to find something intuitive that kids could use to control led pars and moving heads.
> 
> The lights currently are controlled by software I have written that outputs DMX directly (well, Artnet directly...) That's good in that I can make the lights do absolutely anything. That's bad because only I can delve into the code and write new movements.
> 
> My goal is to find a controller that a novice could program and operate on the spot, assuming all the patchng was already done. The big classic consoles don't seem like that to me. They are a powerful tool for a skilled operator who has put serious time into learning their operation



@Lyle Williams you and the students will be able to learn the basics of the Mantra lite in about 10 min. It is app based and so easy to use. It does have the restriction of only having 24 fixtures able to be used however you could add a wing or 2 which would give you 36 or 48 fixtures. There are other restrictions with it but at a basic level it will do anything you want it to in a short amount of time. Although it took 8hrs to do the lighting plot for Suessical Kids (30min show)
Want to know more about my experience send me a PM with a phone number (because we are in OZ) and I can give you a call at some stage.
Regards
Geoff


----------



## Crisp image (Nov 12, 2017)

Chris Pflieger said:


> Being Australian, you might be able to tell me how this compares to the Jands Vista console line.


After a quick google the Jands is much more complicated and physically larger than the Mantra Lite. But I may have googled the wrong stuff. 
Regards
Geoff


----------

