# Chicago: IBEW vs. IATSE



## derekleffew (Jun 19, 2012)

McCormick Place, Navy Pier pact aims to ease electrical labor costs - chicagotribune.com

> Stagehands, whose hourly rates generally are lower than electricians, will be allowed to do work previously carried out by electricians.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 19, 2012)

There goes that legend.


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## Pie4Weebl (Jun 19, 2012)

So what you now only need to work with 5 unions to do a show at navy pier instead of six?


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 19, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> So what you now only need to work with 5 unions to do a show at navy pier instead of six?



No, the article said the IBEW still does some work, the IA just gets to actually plug in their lights now.


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## SteveB (Jun 19, 2012)

Was working the Disney on Ice show at Long Islands Nassau Coliseum many, many years ago. 

IBEW did/does tie-in and disconnect, IATSE all else theatrical related.

HUGE truss, 200x100, lighting, audio, scenery, etc... including dimmer beach, etc... on truss.

So truss comes in part way to drop speakers. IBEW drops power, removes tails, locks switches and goes home.

Oops. 4 hr. call for 2 guys to come back and tie-back in so we can load out (this was before cell phones). Expensive evening but a nice check.


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## len (Jun 19, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> So what you now only need to work with 5 unions to do a show at navy pier instead of six?



You're COMPLETELY misinformed. That's 12 unions instead of 13.

Fortunately, working with the unions is not something I have to deal with.


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## soundman (Jun 19, 2012)

Not earth breaking. Be it McCormick, Cobo, or Javits if you have a 'live entertainment section in your booth most of the time its IA doing the work. IBEW will still be doing the rigging and tieing in the mains. An experienced production team will try and keep the systems as separated as much as possible to avoid the battle over who gets to build the cable bridge. I've also seen TDs have the LD add a light to drape truss so IBEW is allowed to build it. 

Sure it can be a pain to not be able to touch anything but it works on your planing and leading skills.


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## derekleffew (Jun 19, 2012)

soundman said:


> ...I've also seen TDs have the LD add a light to drape truss so *IBEW* is allowed to build it.


I think you meant IATSE, no? If just a drape truss, would fall under decorators, in LV, a division of Teamsters.


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## len (Jun 20, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> I think you meant IATSE, no? If just a drape truss, would fall under decorators, in LV, a division of Teamsters.



Who knows? I was at the Hyatt in Chicago once, and had to suffer through an argument about who should build truss towers and hang moving lights. The parties I can remember arguing were the decorators, the carpenters, electricians (IATSE?, IBEW? FBI?), Teamsters, and 3 others. The ironic thing was, the truss towers had already been built, so it was moot. 

I have nothing against union labor, I just get tired of all the pissing contests they get into. Shouldn't this all be worked out BEFORE the truck shows up?


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## Sony (Jun 20, 2012)

My view is, if it's theatre related at ALL (i.e. truss, lighting, sound, rigging) then it should be IATSE...there is no reason why an IBEW electrician should be hanging points. Teamsters load and unload the trucks and IBEW electricians can do the camlok tie in if they want. Thats it... However I guess I'm just used to the way Boston does it, because it makes sense.


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## soundman (Jun 20, 2012)

derekleffew said:


> I think you meant IATSE, no? If just a drape truss, would fall under decorators, in LV, a division of Teamsters.



In the 3-4 years I have been to McCormick as a site supervisor 95% of the crews I have been running are IBEW. I don't know how it got that way but thats who you used to have to use. Now I think it is possible to get other unions in but I imagine there is still some friction. That photo is from the recent NATO conference. In the north hall alone there were 350+ points. My zone was 100-120 points and about a half mile of truss. I was given two lifts and about 15 people and we were floating all in ten hours with the exception of 3 trusses. Sure it was dead hangs in a low room but I still felt it went pretty quick. The people that work mostly out of McCormick are pretty solid and know the room very well. When they bring people out of the hall it can be a crap shoot, and you get people who have been wiring industrial pole buildings all there life and dont know jack about truss and motors. Those days area little longer. 

I don't get to pick the venue, I don't get to pick the crew, I can only do the best with what the client gives me and bill accordingly.


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## SteveB (Jun 20, 2012)

Sony said:


> My view is, if it's theatre related at ALL (i.e. truss, lighting, sound, rigging) then it should be IATSE...there is no reason why an IBEW electrician should be hanging points. Teamsters load and unload the trucks and IBEW electricians can do the camlok tie in if they want. Thats it... However I guess I'm just used to the way Boston does it, because it makes sense.



Kind of a grey area when it's not in a "theater", wouldn't you say ?. The "performers" in a trade show or convention are often CEO's or hired models and not members of Equity or SAG. "Truss" is used in a lot of places, hanging highway signs, for instance. Chain motors we're adapted from other industries for "theatrical" use. Thus the ongoing disputes. 

I think that IATSE, who has had an often times contentious relationship with both the Teamsters as well as IBEW (who often times represents Television and Cable Tv technicians, as BTW), does rightfully claim jurisdiction when the equipment is used predominantly in a theatrical event, but it's as constant fight.


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