# Choose A Leko For Me.



## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2008)

Some of you know that on the side I light shows at the local high school. It's a proscenium space (a bastardized one, but surprisingly functional), and for the past 20 years the stock of Lekos has been 12 1KL6-30s (historically all on the AP, though I always change that) and 6 Strand 6x16 axials (2216?).

Every show I fight with the stupid 1KLs to try to get light to come out the front of them and not suck very much; sometimes I have more success than others. The last two shows I've lit there I've ended up replacing the KLs in the downstage frontlight system (most important system in the whole stinking rig): last show with my fresh-from-Ebay 360Qs, this show with rental S4s.

The theatre department at the high school (possibly partly because I've ended up doing this twice now and gotten more light out of the replacements) is open to buying some new Lekos, and this evening after final dress for this show we talked briefly about that sort of thing and about how much they cost.

So here comes the dilemma: which Leko (okay, ERS) would you pick? I presume they'd have to go with new, though old units are great in my book. Source Four? SL? Shakes? 360Q?

They've got essentially an MD288 half-rack with 2.4Ks, not that it makes much difference really; and currently all of the existing fixtures are 6" units, mostly Fresnels (which work fine).

Part of me thinks S4 because it's the new standard; another LD I know really prefers the SL (and doesn't it take 7.5" cuts?); I know 360Qs pretty well; and I've even used a single Shakes once (and it didn't totally suck).

I think the initial thing is to get them about a dozen 26s, and then expand the inventory for overstage Lekos (which would have to be either 36s or 50s because of the stupid short throw). And some T3s to light the cyc; I was thinking three-cell Irises.

To me I think it's just between the S4, the SL, and the 360Q; I can't see any benefit to the Shakes in this case .. but what do you think?


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## Pie4Weebl (Oct 2, 2008)

Source 4. Hands down, no contest.


Buuut, for bang for your buck you may want to consider getting some fresnels instead, those with some barndoors and you could get a nice front light wash...


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## derekleffew (Oct 2, 2008)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Buuut, for bang for your buck you may want to consider getting some fresnels instead, those with some barndoors and you could get a nice front light wash...


From an AP position?


waynehoskins said:


> ... another LD I know really prefers the SL (and doesn't it take 7.5" cuts?); ...


The Strand SL Coolbeam uses the same colorframes and accessories as the SourceFour. Do a search, and you'll find the majority of posters prefer the S4 over the SL. The 360Q streets around $195, the S4 $300. You might also consider the SourceFour jr at ~$200. There is no benefit whatsoever to the Shakespeare; see this post.

As for Cyc Floods, I'm not sure the QuartzColor Iris is still available in the US (certainly not via Strand). Consider the L&E BroadCyc or the Altman SkyCyc.


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## cdub260 (Oct 2, 2008)

I've worked with both Strand SL's and ETC Source 4's. Given my preference, I'll take the Source 4's over the SL's any day of the week. The Bulk of our fixtures at the Pageant are Source 4's, the oldest of which was manufactured in 1997, and is still in excellent shape.


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## TimMiller (Oct 2, 2008)

I hate the SL's. I dont have time to fight with a stupid fixture for 30min to get the stupid lamp out to replace it. S4's one screw and the lamp is out. I will take a S4 over any other leko.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2008)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Buuut, for bang for your buck you may want to consider getting some fresnels instead, those with some barndoors and you could get a nice front light wash...



Not from the AP .. especially since the angle from this AP is far flatter than the ideal 45 .. it's no steeper than 30, probably more like 20, so downstage fronts have to be Lekos to not light up the entire back wall and loudspeaker array and ceiling.

And for what it's worth, they already have a fair inventory of Fresnels - about 3 dozen Strand Fresnelites (#3380), KW-rated, and about 15 Alt 65Qs. And some crap P56s that don't do crap when they're lamped at 300.


TimMiller said:


> I hate the SL's. I dont have time to fight with a stupid fixture for 30min to get the stupid lamp out to replace it. S4's one screw and the lamp is out. I will take a S4 over any other leko.



I thought they used that bayonet mechanism to mount the cap. The LD I know who loves SLs particularly loves the bayonet mechanism.

Source Four it seems to be, then. They're a pretty light.


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## Sony (Oct 2, 2008)

S4's for me all the way. I've used Strand Century's, Altman 360's and S4's...the S4 wins hands down with no contest.


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## icewolf08 (Oct 2, 2008)

I would go with the Source Fours or Selecon Pacifics.


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 2, 2008)

Either S4's or Selecon Pacifics. 

Pass on the SL.

If you somehow ended up with Shakespeare's, while that's not ideal, they aren't bad. I've used Shakespeares in a facility where they received NO maintenance the four years I worked that summer program and they held up fine.

Now, if you don't have the money, used 360Q's are always a good deal. Nothing wrong with having a good inventory of maintained 360Q's. Especially with the 575 lamps. 
A new 360Q is a beautiful thing.


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## soundlight (Oct 2, 2008)

Source Fours all the way. I don't hate Shakespeares, but they're not as good as S4s in my book. There's a reason Source Fours are the most popular and the design has changed so little since they were introduced - it's a proven design that's easy to use and low-maintenance.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Now, if you don't have the money, used 360Q's are always a good deal. Nothing wrong with having a good inventory of maintained 360Q's. Especially with the 575 lamps.
> A new 360Q is a beautiful thing.



Absolutely .. especially after Ship's S4/360Q shootout. I've got 8 360Qs in my personal inventory, and cleaned and lamped 575 they're pretty.

But a *new* 360Q, that's even prettier than mine, what with that super kickback reflector and all.


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## derekleffew (Oct 2, 2008)

waynehoskins said:


> Absolutely .. especially after Ship's S4/360Q shootout. ...


Did I miss this shoot-out? ship has stated "A 360Q with the right lamp will out-shoot a Source4," but when challenged, as I recall, was unable/unwilling to defend the claim. 

[Never trust the data on any manufacturer's spec sheets. Actual mileage may vary. Paid product endorsement. No animals were harmed in the making of this ad. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. I'm derekleffew and I approve of this message.]


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## waynehoskins (Oct 2, 2008)

derekleffew said:


> Did I miss this shoot-out? ship has stated "A 360Q with the right lamp will out-shoot a Source4," but when challenged, as I recall, was unable/unwilling to defend the claim.
> 
> [Never trust the data on any manufacturer's spec sheets. Actual mileage may vary. Paid product endorsement. No animals were harmed in the making of this ad. Objects in mirror may be closer than they appear. I'm derekleffew and I approve of this message.]



I took that moderately unscientific test ("I could clearly see that A was brighter than B") as at least that the 360Q can keep up with a S4, if not slightly outshoot it (makes sense to me: larger lens = more light). I'd really like to see a real scientific shootout, but for now "I put them side-by-side with same lamps and the result was..." is shootout enough for me.

But, survey results being what they are, I think the winner is the Source Four. They are The Standard these days, and the interchangeable barrels is a major advantage over the 360Q.

You know, I really would like to see a real scientific shootout between all of the major Lekos these days.


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## derekleffew (Oct 2, 2008)

waynehoskins said:


> But, survey results being what they are, I think the winner is the Source Four. They are The Standard these days, and the interchangeable barrels is a major advantage ...


One million units sold from 1992-2000. Another one million sold from 2000-2006. Should we start a poll to place bets on when the 3,000,000th unit will be sold?

I've never seen any figures on how many 360Qs have been produced since its introduction in, I'm not sure, 1979?


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## gafftaper (Oct 2, 2008)

S4 is the standard and my personal favorite. Take a look at Selecon if you can. It's a very nice instrument. I purchased 8 Selecon zooms to use in my inventory just for image projection. The optics on a standard Selecon are nearly as good as the ETC EDLT lenses. So they rock for gobos. With the right package they are actually cool enough that you can print a color image on a sheet of color transparency and drop it in the Selecon. VERY cool stuff. They cost slightly more than ETC but not a lot. 

As was mentioned above, take a look good look at S4 Jr.'s. I'm a big fan of Jr.'s for schools, they make a lot of sense on the budget. Negatives: barrel doesn't rotate, size M gobos, 575 watt limit, 26, 36, and 50 degree barrels or 25-50 zooms. So basically as long as they aren't your primary instrument for gobos, the throw isn't too long, and you don't want to use 750 watt lamps they are perfect.

Prices from Production Advantage's website... you should be able to do a little better if the package is good size:
S4 fixed lens $300
S4 Jr. Fixed lens $200
S4 Jr. Zoom $250
Selecon Zoom $480
S4 Zoom $430


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## Les (Oct 2, 2008)

SL's actually aren't that bad IF you get ones that work the way they should. Commonly, the lamp caps get stuck, or the knob that you loosen to rotate the fixture won't tighten (caused by a broken bushing inside usually - a simple fix but a pain in the butt). The reflectors are also thinner and the shutters are more stiff. I have 6 SL's (3 fixed, 1 zoom) and I would trade the fixed focus' for Source Fours if i could (they were free).. I'd keep the zooms though, for their size. Out of my 6 SL's, one of the fixed focus has a broken reflector and the 360 degree rotation won't lock in. 

Choose the Source Four if you plan to use gobos. Otherwise the 360Q's of the correct degree would be plenty. The 360Q, like the Source Four will always be easy to work on and to find parts for.


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## gafftaper (Oct 2, 2008)

Just want to point out a S4 Jr. fixed lens is about the same price as a 360Q. Jr.'s a way better choice in my opinion.


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## MNicolai (Oct 2, 2008)

Whatever you do, don't get SL's. I'll make a quick list of reasons why I hate the SL.




The reflectors are extremely fragile. At one of the theatres I work at, we live in the house that Strand built, and more than 75% of our SL's have cracked reflectors, and a number of them have broken reflectors. Our 10°'s, which never leave the catwalk pipes except for an occasional maintenance or inventory day, have 4 cracked reflectors. We only own five of those. You do the math on the failure rate of lights that rarely get bounced around from place to place.
Those ingenius, spring-loaded knobs, don't stay spring-loaded. If you, or more likely, anyone who helps you over-loosens one, the knob pops off, the spring shoots across the room, and then there's another piece which can also get lost. You'll quickly lose knobs, springs, and other parts. This isn't the end of the world when focusing at ground level on stage, but when you're in the aerial lift or on the catwalk, a part that flies off is as good as gone.
The 360° rotating barrel is an awesome feature...but, the piece that goes around the fixture to allow for that feature, which is the same piece that connects the barrel to the yoke, is made of plastic. I've seen them break, and if that happens and you don't affix a safety cable directly to the integral attachment point on the fixture, you're light is no more good than illustrating that the sky is falling.
On the zooms, along the track that the barrel runs on, is cloth tape. It's essentially gaffers tape, sort of. Put that through 10 years of use and heat and you've got a fun task to go and replace all of it.
As many have already mentioned, each time you go to replace the lamp, or so much as inspect it, you have to then bench focus all over again, because it screws up your bench just to pull the cap off.
The yokes are less rigid than those of the S4. If you hang an SL, and then hang a S4, if you go to shake the S4, it'll be as solid as a rock, but if you shake the S4, it'll wobble back and forth.
In a road house which has only been open for six, leaning now towards seven years, the ATD is trying to get our entire SL inventory phased out with S4's. To give some TLC to all of our SL's and make them whole again with new reflectors (and this is only replacing those that are completely broken), replacement knobs, handles, what have you, would cost the same amount of money as it would for us to purchase 18 new S4's. That doesn't even include the then inevitable price of also having to pay labor for overhires to come in and do all of the fixing.

A large digression later, I conclude with saying that the S4 of Pacific range is the way to go. My experience with the Shakespeares is limited, but from what I saw, I'd also agree with gafftapegreenia that it wouldn't be the end of the world. They're fairly robust instruments, but noticeably bulky. I would be really interested to see a drop-test experiment between the S4 and Shakespeare for durability. I think it would pretty close, but I hesitate to say that by default, the S4 would the be the winner as in most other cases.


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 2, 2008)

I heard that these are the latest in technologically advanced lighting:


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## derekleffew (Oct 2, 2008)

gafftapegreenia said:


> I heard that these are the latest in technologically advanced lighting...


I heard that with the right lamp, a 1366E will out-shoot a SourceFour.


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## gafftaper (Oct 3, 2008)

I'd like an 8" 3000 watt model for my black box... I'm thinking of opening up a barbecue in my spare time.


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## jerekb (Oct 3, 2008)

I have to agree I used to Source 4's and now have SL's and hands down Source 4's all the way. They work great!


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## dramatech (Oct 3, 2008)

I doubt that there is much that I can add to the chorus of the Source 4 love fest, but in the four years that I have been the master electrician at our theatre, my biggest goal has been to replace all my ERSs with Source 4s. Being a community theatre with very little budget for lighting, and my being retired and not needing the small pay that I get for the gig, I purchase used source 4s with my pay and give them to the theatre. I buy them in all kinds of condition, but always at the best price, and repair them. I will purchase some that are just parts, and assemble working units from the parts. I will purchase the small parts and conversion kits, piggybacked on gell orders for the shows.
I just replaced all of the sheaving on the power cables. My source 4s, many from the earliest models are all up to date and are real work horses. Any damage is immediately repaired.
When I got to the theatre, we had 21 pre 1997 instruments. We now have 66 current models with 11 extra lenses. Just buying one or two at a time really adds up very quickly. I still have 27 non source 4 models to replace. Most of those are 360Qs 6x12. I keep those repaired as well, but if the shutters get really bad the instrument is scrapped for parts to keep the others going. Just my thoughts on the matter.


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## CavezziMagnum (Oct 3, 2008)

I feel like I must chime in. Aside from being desperate for cash, there is no good reason to NOT BUY the Source Four. It is my favorite without a shadow of a doubt. Specifically the Junior Zoom. Love it.


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## gafftaper (Oct 3, 2008)

CavezziMagnum said:


> I feel like I must chime in. Aside from being desperate for cash, there is no good reason to NOT BUY the Source Four. It is my favorite without a shadow of a doubt. Specifically the Junior Zoom. Love it.



and with the Jr. and the Jr. zoom, even those who are "desperate for cash" can afford Source Four.

Altman 360q vs S4 Jr... Same price but no contest in my book as what you should purchase.


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## cdub260 (Oct 3, 2008)

CavezziMagnum said:


> I feel like I must chime in. Aside from being desperate for cash, there is no good reason to NOT BUY the Source Four. It is my favorite without a shadow of a doubt. Specifically the Junior Zoom. Love it.



I have Jr. Zoom's as the front light in my 236 seat theatre. My only complaint is that they severely overpower the ancient lights hung over the the stage, specifically, the old R-40 strips that my TD won't let me remove from the plot because they double as work lights.


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## Les (Oct 3, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Altman 360q vs S4 Jr... Same price but no contest in my book as what you should purchase.



I could not qualify myself to recommend the Source Four Jr. because I have never used it. 

I do kind of wish Altman, Strand, or Leviton would improve or update their models to be more competition. I love Source Four's but I'm honestly getting a little tired of seeing and hearing about them everywhere.


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 4, 2008)

Speaking of Leviton, has anyone see/used/handled a Leo yet?


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## soundlight (Oct 5, 2008)

I'd take an S4 Jr over a 360Q any day. Smaller than a 360Q and easier to work with. I worked with a mix of S4s and S4 Jrs for ellipsoidal fixtures (also had a bunchc of 6" fresnels and a few parcans) at the summer stock that I worked at two summers ago. The only time I had an issue with the fixture was when we had a lamp blow inside one and I had to take it apart to get all of the glass out. That's where a regular Source Four shines in ease of repair - just pop off the barrel and shutter assembly and shake everything out in to the proper disposal bin. Of course, if people don't handle the lamps with their stinkin' greasy paws in the first place, I wouldn't have had to do that!


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## cdub260 (Oct 5, 2008)

soundlight said:


> I'd take an S4]That's where a regular Source Four shines in ease of repair - just pop off the barrel and shutter assembly and shake everything out in to the proper disposal bin. Of course, if people don't handle the lamps with their stinkin' greasy paws in the first place, I wouldn't have had to do that!



Source 4 Jr.'s aren't quite that easy, but if you remove the lens, the shaking trick works. It just requires a little more effort and care as the shutter assembly gets in the way of removing the glass shards. As for handling of lamps, even with a brand new lamp, right out of the box, I assume that someone has touched it and I clean it with isopropyl alcohol when I install it. This habit seems to have served me well as I have only had to change 4 or 5 lamps in the last two years. I will grant, however, that my lighting equipment probably does not see quite the same level of heavy use that most of yours do, so this may also be a contributing factor in my long lamp life.


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## waynehoskins (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey, hi, so I'm dragging back up my old thread from nearly six months ago. I took a call this afternoon from the director at the high school. He said they'd gotten a quote on some Leviton Leos (about $250 a pop) and wondered if the lights are any good and if the price is any good.

I'm torn on the units themselves, but I can't find much in terms of actual reviews on the web. My inclination is that they're a cheap knock-off of a S4, but again, I haven't tried one.

Anybody spent any time behind one? Got any thoughts? The best I could come up with was a thread on here from a while back where a guy had some burning through color.

Good buy, or good-bye?


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## express (Mar 4, 2009)

Get S4 Jr. Zoom. They are the main workhouse of our theater. They are cheaper than S4's and you can use them as zooms. Spend the $50 and get the zoom.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 4, 2009)

If the price you were quoted ($250) is accurate then you might as well spend the extra $30 per fixture for the real deal Source 4. I have found that most places carry the Source 4 at around $280, and sometimes you can even get them to throw in the lamp. Also, I believe the Leo has been killed due to patent infringement, but I could be wrong.


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## waynehoskins (Mar 4, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> Also, I believe the Leo has been killed due to patent infringement, but I could be wrong.



That's what I was remembering, or at least speculations about it. We know the Lightronics suit, and this Leo looks so stinking similar .. plus, it bears the name Leviton. 

Heh .. I hate S4Js and the Zooms, let alone Junior Zooms. I'll recommend the real deal.


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## Grog12 (Mar 4, 2009)

waynehoskins said:


> That's what I was remembering, or at least speculations about it. We know the Lightronics suit, and this Leo looks so stinking similar .. plus, it bears the name Leviton.
> 
> Heh .. I hate S4Js and the Zooms, let alone Junior Zooms. I'll recommend the real deal.



See this thread

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/10508-etc-lightronics-lawsuit-settled.html


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## RTDesigns (Mar 4, 2009)

Well, with it being a high school situation, for the budget and ease of use, I would go with the 360q's. I have used them for many years, and had no major issues with them.....easy to maintain, changing lamp is quick, shutter replacement is quick (but rarely needed). You just can't beat them. I have 8of the S4 jr zooms and absolutely hate them.....shutters SUCK!....and to get a gobo in them is a pain in the posterior end. I'll take an Altman product any day.


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## Grog12 (Mar 4, 2009)

RTDesigns said:


> Well, with it being a high school situation, for the budget and ease of use, I would go with the 360q's. I have used them for many years, and had no major issues with them.....easy to maintain, changing lamp is quick, shutter replacement is quick (but rarely needed). You just can't beat them. I have 8of the S4 jr zooms and absolutely hate them.....shutters SUCK!....and to get a gobo in them is a pain in the posterior end. I'll take an Altman product any day.



What's funny is the same thing can be said the other way around. I've worked with many a 360q that the shutters wouldn't move period.

Its all about maitanence.

I'd be remiss if I advised someone to buy brand new 360q's in this day and age. Used I would but not brand new. And if they could get a used S4, Shakespeare, SL, or Selecon for the same price I'd have them get that instead.


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## waynehoskins (Mar 5, 2009)

Yeah, I love my 360Qs -- they're old, reliable, and almost bulletproof. And yep, if they're maintained they're a great light. (aren't they all?)

But if I were buying new (and I'm going to aim for this also at the church, which is using some of my 360Qs and other old Alt and Strand stuff), I'm pretty convinced ETC is the way to go.

So I, the other month, told the school to get S4s. The guy at the "N" place wanted to sell them Shakeses and then overpriced the bid for S4s. Now somebody (I don't know if it's the same place or not) wants to sell them Leos instead. So yeah, I'm gonna say "You want the real deal, and you should expect to pay $XXX for them" (whatever that is -- about 300? 350 tops?)

Though probably any modern Leko is better than the 1KLs they have. Ugh. They're not lights, they're darks.


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## Kelite (Mar 5, 2009)

waynehoskins said:


> Now somebody (I don't know if it's the same place or not) wants to sell them Leos instead. So yeah, I'm gonna say "You want the real deal, and you should expect to pay $XXX for them" (whatever that is -- about 300? 350 tops?)




Having tested the Leo here in our lab when introduced, I would recommend almost ANY lighting fixture before it. The optics were horrendous with gobos and getting a flat field was impossible.

Stick with something you'll be happy to have down the road-


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## Les (Mar 5, 2009)

waynehoskins said:


> Yeah, I love my 360Qs -- they're old, reliable, and almost bulletproof. And yep, if they're maintained they're a great light. (aren't they all?)
> 
> But if I were buying new (and I'm going to aim for this also at the church, which is using some of my 360Qs and other old Alt and Strand stuff), I'm pretty convinced ETC is the way to go.
> 
> ...



Did you go to the "N" place in Dallas off of Wycliff? I was there a few years ago getting a loaner board while they repaired a Colortran Status and they did a whole spiel on how you could get a better focus with the Shakespeare and how there are more options for adjusting the lamp. Since the community theatre with the Colortran Status also had about 50 or 60 Shakespeares, I didn't buy it. Sure I ooh and awwed like I cared, but come on! LOL.


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## express (Mar 5, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> If the price you were quoted ($250) is accurate then you might as well spend the extra $30 per fixture for the real deal Source 4. I have found that most places carry the Source 4 at around $280, and sometimes you can even get them to throw in the lamp. Also, I believe the Leo has been killed due to patent infringement, but I could be wrong.



Yes, but you get the zoom feature with the Jr.


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## icewolf08 (Mar 5, 2009)

express said:


> Yes, but you get the zoom feature with the Jr.



First off, I was talking about the Leviton Leo compared to the Source 4. Also, not ever S4 Jr. has zoom. In zoom land, I wouldn't accept anything less than a full size Source 4 zoom, or better yet, the Selecon Pacific Zoomspots. Why? Well, you sacrifice so much output and sharpness when you switch to zoom optics from fixed beam. So, if you are going to do zoom, you should start with the best optics to can get. Also, I have yet to find zooms to be a timesaver or anything, not enough pros on my list to buy zooms over fixed beam units.


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## waynehoskins (Mar 8, 2009)

Les said:


> Did you go to the "N" place in Dallas off of Wycliff?



Yep, that's the one. 

As much as they push the Shakeses, I can't see them pushing the Leo unless Lev-NSI-C'tran is making them a better kickback than Alt .. though the other year they were really pushing the C'tran Innovator. I think that's the one, the one that competes with Express about six years ago, before the NSI merger I think?

So I don't think the Leo recommendation is from them, but I could be wrong. They really love their Shakeses.

I need to find a good ETC dealer/rep/whatever up here that can do school bids. Barbizon probably? One that's not as biased by kickbacks and will do an honest bid...


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## MikeyHP (Mar 8, 2009)

ETC Source4 all the way for FOH lights, Colortran 8in Fresnels, and Source4 PARnells for above stage lighting


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## lieperjp (Mar 8, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> In zoom land, I wouldn't accept anything less than a full size Source 4 zoom



I would agree with this. We have a bunch of S4 jr. zooms (25-50 deg.) and they just don't have much punch at all. Stick with the full size unless you have a really short throw distance.


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## Les (Mar 8, 2009)

I wish the S4 zoom was more like the SL zoom in terms of size/shape/weight. I haven't done a shootout to figure out which one is better optically (though I'm suspecting the Source Four is), but as far as the overall design of the fixture, I think Strand has them beat in terms of ease of use and portability. I did some work at a high school where the tech's called them "crates", and I can see why! You can't even carry them by the yoke like a normal ellipsoidal without them banging the floor. Unless you're 7' tall.


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## darranwil (Jun 3, 2009)

Hate them Hate them Hate Them.

One of my past employers had about 15 of the Leos, 12 Jrs, 3 Jr Zooms, and 50 Lekos with various Barrels.

We never used the Leos unless everything was out. They are awkward, hard to focus, shutters are rough, the yokes always get loose. 

I later sold the boss on the Leko Jr Zooms for 95% of our jobs unless we needed a 10Degree for a Gobo. He ended up buying 16 move of the Jr Zooms in black and white for doing tent jobs.


darran
limelight-services.com


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## mbandgeek (Jun 3, 2009)

MikeyHP said:


> ETC Source4 all the way for FOH lights, Colortran 8in Fresnels, and Source4 PARnells for above stage lighting



I particularly like Selecon's range of fresnels. I have seen the acclaim 4" units in action, and i have heard good things about the Rama 6" fresnels as well.


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## tjrobb (Jun 3, 2009)

Slightly off-topic, two rants:
Had a TD try to tell me an HPL lamp didn't exist (this was 2005!), and his WHOLE rig was Altie's. No coincidence, methinks.
The 1KL's? Yeah, the entire FOH catwalk is 1KL's, nothing else, about 30 of them. They do suck. A lot.


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## LightStud (Jun 3, 2009)

tjrobb said:


> and his WHOLE rig was Altie's.


Okay. Let's nip this in the bud, RIGHT NOW. While some noise boys of the prosumer variety think it's cute and endearing to refer to Panasonic equip. as Panny's and Yamaha as Yammies, this ain't gonna be tolerated by us burly 'trician types!

The fixtures was ALTMANS, not Altie's. There's never been a friggin' cutesy thing about any Altman fixture ever, not even the 3.5Q-MT or the #100!

And there's not an HPL lamp available for anything except ETC SourceFour. HPR and SPH are very different animals.


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## cdub260 (Jun 3, 2009)

LightStud said:


> Okay. Let's nip this in the bud, RIGHT NOW. While some noise boys of the prosumer variety think it's cute and endearing to refer to Panasonic equip. as Panny's and Yamaha as Yammies, this ain't gonna be tolerated by us burly 'trician types!
> 
> The fixtures was ALTMANS, not Altie's. There's never been a friggin' cutesy thing about any Altman fixture ever, not even the 3.5Q-MT or the #100!



Well, I'll keep using my Sourcies.


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## waynehoskins (Jun 3, 2009)

LightStud said:


> The fixtures was ALTMANS, not Altie's. There's never been a friggin' cutesy thing about any Altman fixture ever, not even the 3.5Q-MT or the #100!



Now wait, the No. 100 and the 3.5Q are quite cute. Not my first choice for many things, but I have been known to say "cute little 3.5Q" before. And I've often heard the No. 100s called Inkies quite a bit.

Altie is a new one for me .. I've always shortened it to Alt. Panny and Yammy I've heard (and been guilty of using .. often as "crappy Panny"). And in video world, Ikegami is almost always shortened to Icky. Guilty of that one all the time.


Update: I believe I talked the school out of the Leo idea; best I know, they're still walking down the S4 path .. slowly, as anything with public school fine arts programs goes.


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## Lightingguy32 (Jun 12, 2009)

S4, I remember a show I worked last year where there was an issue with fitting slightly older color scrollers into Strand SLs because the mounting plate was S4 specific and was just a tad too large to slide into an SL. Also the SL is a pain, eventually the lamp socket assembly cap will loosen to the point where it won't lock into the fixture and certain generations have an issue where the insulated rear handle does not allow you to tilt the fixture the full 180° (only way to do it is to take the socket cap off, rotate and then put it back on)


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## nick2401 (Jun 14, 2009)

S4 or S4 Jr. Espically if you have students assisting/ learning form you as they are pretty easy to use and they can get a handle on them


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