# Spark FX and cold fire pyro



## gbirdsall (Dec 14, 2018)

Hey guys, 

I have a show coming up at the end of January that the client wants to use some cold fire pyro on. Think a continuous gerb. 

Has anyone used these types of systems before (controlled from a hog 4) and what were your experiences with them?

Thanks


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## Jeff Lelko (Dec 14, 2018)

Yes, and more than a few things to consider before using them...

For starters, depending on your local AHJ and venue management, the jury is still out on whether or not these are actually considered pyrotechnics. Opinions will vary. There are some chemical differences between products like Sparkular and real pyro that drive different requirements (and that's all I'll say as to not break the pyro discussion rule), but the end result is the same so most people will treat them the same - namely your insurance company. If you're not insured for pyro I wouldn't even touch it.

These machines are also loud - and not in a good way. They sound like a power tool. 

The smell and fallout isn't too bad especially if comparing to actual close-prox pyro, but it's still existent. 

All that aside, these things are expensive to buy and expensive to run. Yes, there are effects and applications these can accommodate that you can't do with gerbs, but in my experience it's almost always it's either real pyro or something else all together. 

Hope this helps, and hope I dodged the pyro rule with this response!


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## venuetech (Dec 15, 2018)

I think that translates to that you/your client will still need to go to through the full permit process.
In my location that would mean having all the permit application paperwork done by this Monday or Tuesday for a show less than 60 days away. Just to give the AHJ time to properly review it. My AHJ prefers 90 days.


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## porkchop (Dec 16, 2018)

The machines are specifically designed to not need the full permitting process. I had an extended conversation with the head of legal for Sparktacular at LDI and if you have any questions about permit issues I'm sure they will help you figure out your paperwork if you call them, so I wouldn't be too worried about that. 

As for the units themselves it's important to realize that they are shooting out small pieces of metal (think a bit larger than grinding dust in the weld shop). These will accumulate on the floor and need to be dealt with. They can be add a little bit of slipperiness to the floor (although very manageable for most performers) and you wouldn't want anyone underneath them while they're going off. The metal bits would get ground into the floor if there's a lot of traffic and would be hard to clean.

For the large show I was going to spec these on we went to a large FX shop in Vegas for a demo and they told me they had 20 units less than a year old and not a single one worked well enough for a demo that day. Sparktacular assured me these had to be fakes as the real things are much more reliable. The customer basically went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and we moved on. So I guess get a demo before you purchase or have spares in the rental package.


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## gbirdsall (Dec 17, 2018)

porkchop said:


> The machines are specifically designed to not need the full permitting process. I had an extended conversation with the head of legal for Sparktacular at LDI and if you have any questions about permit issues I'm sure they will help you figure out your paperwork if you call them, so I wouldn't be too worried about that.
> 
> As for the units themselves it's important to realize that they are shooting out small pieces of metal (think a bit larger than grinding dust in the weld shop). These will accumulate on the floor and need to be dealt with. They can be add a little bit of slipperiness to the floor (although very manageable for most performers) and you wouldn't want anyone underneath them while they're going off. The metal bits would get ground into the floor if there's a lot of traffic and would be hard to clean.
> 
> For the large show I was going to spec these on we went to a large FX shop in Vegas for a demo and they told me they had 20 units less than a year old and not a single one worked well enough for a demo that day. Sparktacular assured me these had to be fakes as the real things are much more reliable. The customer basically went ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and we moved on. So I guess get a demo before you purchase or have spares in the rental package.




The reliability is a concern but we are renting genuine sparktacular units so hopefully they will fire when they should. This is also a kind of test run to decide if they are worth purchasing, I'm on the fence with what I have read. 

I talked to them and to the Fire martial in AZ, a true pleasure to work with /s, and we are still going to have to have pyro company supervise, permit, and piggy back off their license.


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## Tom Andrews (Dec 18, 2018)

Unless the NFPA has made subsequent determinations since December 2017, Sparkular and other 'simulated' pyro effects are considered to fall under the same requirements as pyrotechnics. It's not an item for consumer use. See attached file.


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## gbirdsall (Dec 19, 2018)

Tom Andrews said:


> Unless the NFPA has made subsequent determinations since December 2017, Sparkular and other 'simulated' pyro effects are considered to fall under the same requirements as pyrotechnics. It's not an item for consumer use. See attached file.



Thank you for this! You just gave me the ammo I need to tell them to turn key it with a vendor and not deal with this mess for in the future.


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