# Another Hazer Thread...Huzzah!



## DCATTechie (Sep 10, 2009)

I've read a lot of the threads about hazers on CB and came to the conclusion that the one to purchase depends mainly on your venue and how you want to use it. I've been given a budget of around $1000 to purchase a hazer for our high school theater department. I'm hoping to get some reccomendations about brands and models after I supply the wonderful people of CB with infor about my venue what features I would like it to have.

Venue:

-No HVAC system directly over stage (HVAC is located is about 40 feet out in the house and about 25 feet up)

-Stage is about 80 feet wide by about 30.5 feet deep.

-Anything else you guys need to know?


Features I would like it to have:

-Big reservoir (I don't want to go and have to fill it up again mid-show)

-Powerful fan (Don't want to set up tons of fans to distribute the haze)

-DMX Control (If possible, I can't afford to put a tech down to run the remote)

-Quiet (I have enough problems with the SBO running stuff loud, don't need an excuse for it to be any louder) 

-Around $1000 as I mentioned before, a little fluctuation is possible

-Durable (This needs to last a for some years and not need a ton of repairs or maintenence, remember, this is for a high school)

-Easy to clean (I would love to not have to take apart the entire thing to clean it, and also would love to not need to clean it after every use)

Thanks a lot guys and gals!


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## soundlight (Sep 10, 2009)

Ultratec FX (aka Le Maitre) Radiance Hazer.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 11, 2009)

It probably will not change your decision on which unit to buy but I would make sure that the Fire detectors are of the ionization type and NOT the visibiility type. This includes any detectors put in the Hvac ducting etc. There is nothing like getting a new system to find out that it sets of the alarm system

Sharyn


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## dvsDave (Sep 11, 2009)

Definitely! We had to have the smoke detectors replaced in our black box theatre for that very reason in high school. 

David


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## icewolf08 (Sep 11, 2009)

As usual, I will recommend the Unique2 by Look Solutions. It is a little over the $1k price mark but worth every penny. Also, if you sing by their website, they will send you a demo.


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## DCATTechie (Sep 11, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> As usual, I will recommend the Unique2 by Look Solutions. It is a little over the $1k price mark but worth every penny. Also, if you sing by their website, they will send you a demo.



How much is a little over the $1k price mark? Do you know the MSRP?

How long is a reasonable time to request a demo of the Unique2?

Lastly, I've used a fogger/smoke machine in this venue before ( I think it was a Rosco Model 1700) without setting off any alarms, with this hold true with a hazer or is it another issue entirely?


Edit: Just realized this was my 100th Post! Yay for me!


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## Les (Sep 11, 2009)

You probably needn't worry about the reservoir size. Hazers really conserve. You will need to refill it maybe once in your entire run, and this is assuming it's a "heavy haze" show like Les Mis.


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## DCATTechie (Sep 12, 2009)

Les said:


> You probably needn't worry about the reservoir size. Hazers really conserve. You will need to refill it maybe once in your entire run, and this is assuming it's a "heavy haze" show like Les Mis.



That's a relief! Thanks!

What do you think is a reasonable time to request a demo for?

And if I've used a fogger in this space before without setting off any alarms does that mean I'm in the clear with a hazer?


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## Les (Sep 12, 2009)

There's really no way of knowing if you will be in the clear with a hazer. Fog is thicker than haze, but haze permeates the air more, which may be more capable of reaching sensors. I think there's a good chance that you won't have problems though. When I did a tech in for Les Mis, we programmed lights from 10am - 3am. We ran the haze the entire time, the same as during the run of the show. When we finally finished tech in, we brought up the house lights and discovered that the entire auditorium was filled with haze (we programmed from mid-house in this 2300 seat space and now had trouble seeing the booth). My guess is that the HVAC shut down at around 10pm, but we never had any problems before or after that. Your chances of having the same outcome are about 50/50. My advice, test it on a weekend and when there are no other known activities in the building. Be sure to request that the HVAC be running as it would during show conditions. Let the local fire department and your school's administration know what you are doing so they won't be surprised by an alarm sounding. They will still be required to respond, however, which may cost the school some money. But that's better than evacuating the entire campus in the middle of classes.

As for reasonable time to request a demo, honestly, I would just call a company and see what you can get away with.


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## icewolf08 (Sep 12, 2009)

I think the way that the demo worked was that they sent us a unit with a full tank of fluid and told us that we could use up the fluid and then either buy it or send it back. The Unique2 is a very fluid efficient hazer, we did 2 weeks of Miss Saigon on 3/4 of a tank, and that was a haze heavy show. I think that we paid something like $1500 for the unit.


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## DCATTechie (Sep 15, 2009)

Anyone have any other reviews of hazers that I should look at?

What about the MDG Atmosphere? I know it's out of my budget but I'm in the process of trying to get that budget increased. Has anyone used the Atmosphere before? What are your thoughts?

Thanks!


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## icewolf08 (Sep 15, 2009)

We have an MDG Atmosphere, when it works, it can really put out some serious haze. It requires CO2 in addition to haze fluid, so make sure that you take that inconsideration for operational costs. Also, if you have to deal with union actors, you may want to check out the time and distance guidelines as the requirements are a pretty high. Meaning, you can't put an actor within relative proximity to the machine while it is running (I don't remember the tables offhand).


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## derekleffew (Sep 15, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> ...Also, if you have to deal with union actors, you may want to check out the time and distance guidelines as the requirements are a pretty high. Meaning, you can't put an actor within relative proximity to the machine while it is running (I don't remember the tables offhand).


See this document: http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/TD_guidelines.pdf from the AEA website.

Actors' Equity has been the most diligent organization concerned with the health and safety of its members with regards to exposure to these atmospheric effects. See also the documents: http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/finalreport.pdf and http://www.actorsequity.org/docs/safesan/equipment-based.pdf.


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## Dalamar (Sep 15, 2009)

icewolf08 said:


> We have an MDG Atmosphere, when it works, it can really put out some serious haze. It requires CO2 in addition to haze fluid, so make sure that you take that inconsideration for operational costs. Also, if you have to deal with union actors, you may want to check out the time and distance guidelines as the requirements are a pretty high. Meaning, you can't put an actor within relative proximity to the machine while it is running (I don't remember the tables offhand).


 
_"When it works"_
If you have trouble with your Atmosphere, send it to me: someone has misused it and we'll gladly repair it. We have sold thousands of ATM's of all kind since its creation, in more than 40 countries around the world, and I've never heard anyone ever refer to it as "when it works". 


_"It requires CO2 in addition to haze fluid, so make sure that you take that inconsideration for operational costs"_
Not 4 months ago, I had to run a spread sheet on operation costs between the Atmosphere and another extremely popular product. If you need details, I'll provide them in private, not in public: As opposed to others, I do not induldge in product bashing. However, to make a long story short, you do have to consider it. Considering fluid at ~20$ / jug and ours at 45$, plus the CO2, considering the ATM - at FULL INTENSITY - uses (per hour) 55ml of fluid and 180g of CO2, hourly operational costs ran to a little above 1.25$ to their 5.28$. 

Yes, it's much cheaper to use an Atmosphere. 

_"Also, if you have to deal with union actors, you may want to check out the time and distance guidelines as the requirements are a pretty high."_
Yup, those are great guidlines. I'm sure everyone follows them too. The fact that they are high simply reflects that MDG product produce significantly more fog in a shorter period of time, fog that will remain longer as well. Also, check the guidlines completely: you can't put ANYONE near a fog machine... of any brand, make and fluid type. 

I believe that what the gents here forgot to add to the thread, is that it's the only haze generator that will come with a 5-year complete warranty (the longest in the industry), that has an average life-span (based on MAX series) of over 20 years, and that each ~1200$ machine you'll buy and replace 5 times during that life span will have cost you 3 times your original purchase, not counting that, in these dreadful times, it's one of the very, very, very few haze generators actually built in North America (Montreal, Canada). Considering it's for a school and you get money once every quarter century, whose generator seems to be the best investment?


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## DCATTechie (Sep 16, 2009)

Well this is a kick to the gut ,

We had a meeting regarding the budget for the year, and the majority agreed that we can afford to spend between around 700-800 dollars on a hazer. What are your recommendations now?


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## firewater88 (Sep 26, 2009)

soundlight said:


> Ultratec FX (aka Le Maitre) Radiance Hazer.



Another nod for the Radiance. Just got one. It's DMX and has external plug for external fan control. Nice unit, around your price range.


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## Sayen (Sep 28, 2009)

We use a Le Maitre Radiance Hazer in an 800 seat house. At half power it's almost too much haze for most events, so the unit definately has a strong output. DMX controlled and reasonably quiet. I bought the unit for around $1000 I think, and I've been very happy with it.

We have optical fire sensors (grumbling here about stupid school architects and construction), and I've set them off once when running the unit at full. But I was pushing it that night anyway, any other event under lower power has not been a problem.


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## carlmnz (Oct 28, 2009)

I have used the unique 2 and the radiance and recomend the Radiance. There isnt much difference to be honest but the radiance is easy to use and easy to maintain.


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## utilityman (Nov 28, 2009)

I'll add a vote for the LeMaitre Radiance for a couple reasons:

1. Lots of output
2. Very low fluid consumption to generate a light haze
3. Great service dept - the heating element on my unit gave out. I called LeMaitre, explained the issue and the service guy knew exactly what the likely issue was. Parts were sent that day and I was able to swap out the heating element fairly easily, although not exactly a piece of cake since it was tricky to disassemble.

I have had issues with the fire alarm. I must not have ionization sensors and it has been set off twice in the 2-3 years we have had the unit. It was very hazy at the time. Since then, I taped up a number of gaping holes in the return ductwork over the stage which hopefully will help.


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## Studio (Nov 28, 2009)

utilityman said:


> Since then, I taped up a number of gaping holes in the return ductwork over the stage which hopefully will help.



Those ducts are there for a reason.


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## utilityman (Nov 29, 2009)

Studio said:


> Those ducts are there for a reason.




Well, obviously, but not these particular holes. The duct people installed the ducts around and through the support steel beams that hold up the catwalk in the ceiling, and left gaps that weren't sealed properly. They did make some attempts to cover a few huge holes with sheet metal, but clearly there was no owner's rep from the house to keep the construction workers honest.

The "business end" of the returns, under the seats in the house, are all unobstructed. Thhe correct air flow is supposed to be drawing air from those return grates back to the HVAC blower, which goes past all the gaping duct holes (not sucking haze and heated air in from the catwalk level).


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## Studio (Nov 29, 2009)

utilityman said:


> Well, obviously, but not these particular holes. The duct people installed the ducts around and through the support steel beams that hold up the catwalk in the ceiling, and left gaps that weren't sealed properly. They did make some attempts to cover a few huge holes with sheet metal, but clearly there was no owner's rep from the house to keep the construction workers honest.
> 
> The "business end" of the returns, under the seats in the house, are all unobstructed. Thhe correct air flow is supposed to be drawing air from those return grates back to the HVAC blower, which goes past all the gaping duct holes (not sucking haze and heated air in from the catwalk level).



Just checking some people will cover everything and suddenly the room has no ventilation.


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