# Flying Tarzan



## DRU (Apr 1, 2015)

Here is my conundrum:

Local church is doing Tarzan. Director wants a thrust/tennis court style set. Director describes adult Tarzan's entrance during "Son of Man" as "zip lining from audience to the stage". The producer has contacted Hall, Foy, and ZFX about a zip line effect, and they all returned with the same answer: "we don't do zip lines, but we do have tracked fly systems that can do a similar effect but better and safer". Her response to this was no; she does not want the "Peter Pan look", in her words. She wants a zip line. I told her that any company that could install zip lines would probably not be up to helping us, since it would most likely be out of their comfort zone. Another possible solution that came up in this meeting were aerial silks, which she was interested in, but still wanted that big Tarzan swing effect with a zip line. (And she wants a ZIP LINE, which I think completely misses the point on how Tarzan is supposed to look swinging.)

The church's space is basically a gymatorium, but it's more of an activity room than a gym. The stage has a wood floor, but the gym floor is carpeted. The ceiling has four large vaulted beams at each end that don't meet at the middle. Each one has a rated eye for hanging truss. The ceiling is covered, and besides the four points for truss, there are no other structural members available for hanging anything/anybody out over the gym

I have the task of researching all of this in more detail, mainly zip lines in theater, the use of aerial silks in theater, safety issues, rigging issues, how others have made Tarzan swing, cost analysis, insurance, etc. 

Any thoughts or advice?


----------



## venuetech (Apr 1, 2015)

Any of those company's can safely do that effect. You must put life safety first and foremost in any aspect of the production. Going with a "zip line" just to make the director happy is not acceptable.


----------



## chausman (Apr 2, 2015)

Over the audience? One of the flying companies. No other way. Any are capable of avoiding the "Peter Pan" look and doing it safely, it just has its costs.


----------



## What Rigger? (Apr 2, 2015)

To ignore a consensus from The Big Three on any flying matter immediatly brands the director as an idiot who cannot be reasoned with. You do it with one of them, their way, or not at all. With all due respect, DRU...you may not want to be around on this gig, this has all the hallmarks already of a disaster waiting to happen.


----------



## DRU (Apr 2, 2015)

Just to clarify:

I will not be doing any rigging in terms to the flying system. I have not even said yes to helping them. I told them that we would need to figure out the flying effect first before I submit any design, since the location of the flying system the space is the key to how the rest of it is set up.

Basically, my current task (which I'm being paid to do) is to research and define every possible reason to not to anything but the Big Three, and present it to her.


----------



## rsmentele (Apr 2, 2015)

I think the biggest aversion to doing a zip line is that the decent is uncontrolled, and when every variable cannot be controlled without reasonable reliability, accidents happen. Lets not forget the Oprah/ Hugh Jackman incident:

http://www.oprah.com/own-oprah-behind-the-scenes/Hugh-Jackmans-Zipline-Accident-Video


----------



## DRU (Apr 2, 2015)

Agreed. The uncontrolled nature of the zip line is a concern. She does not see it that way. She thinks that since there are zip line companies that do indoor and outdoor zip lines for canopy tours that they can do it for her show.


----------



## petercav17 (Apr 2, 2015)

Plus, a zipline isn't going to look like your director has fantasized. "Ooh a zipline!" Yeah not really.

Ziplines require large external harnesses, gloves to be worn, and create a lot of noise. I've been on a few big zipline canopy tours, and trust me these things are not very graceful. Picture the actor zipping down to the stage, very low because of the cable's slack, manually braking with thick gloves, making an obnoxious "vvvhhhrrrr" sound and then having to wait and unclip this big external harness and then send the trolley back up. Versus a graceful and largely silent swing in, where the actor is wearing a low profile harness under his costume and he is not required to brake or anything, plus you have certified and experienced technicians. Its really an easy thing to see.


----------



## venuetech (Apr 2, 2015)

With any flying effects company you would get the services of a highly qualified flight director.
It is really the expertise of this flight director that will make the effect work for your show.
can you find an indoor zip line effects company that has public performance experience and a flight director.


----------



## JohnD (Apr 2, 2015)

I have to ask, how often has the director been on a zip line?


----------



## soundman (Apr 2, 2015)

I think its called acting. I imagine the flying company can have the rig do the motion of a zip line safer and more controlled than a real zip line. Then its up to the actor to sell the effect the director wants. Perhaps there could be a secondary line he mimics zip lining on to reenforce the effect.


----------



## ruinexplorer (Apr 2, 2015)

One more flying company to contact. http://d2flying.com


----------



## jonliles (Apr 2, 2015)

Why a zip line? Why not swing on a rope disguised as a vine (with the appropriate life safety hardware). The flying companies previously mentioned should be able to help with that as well - it is still a type of flying. 

Tarzan lived in a jungle, not a Tough Mudder obstacle course.


----------



## petercav17 (Apr 2, 2015)

Similar thread about having Tarzan swinging in


----------



## DRU (Apr 2, 2015)

petercav17 said:


> Plus, a zipline isn't going to look like your director has fantasized. "Ooh a zipline!" Yeah not really.
> 
> Ziplines require large external harnesses, gloves to be worn, and create a lot of noise. I've been on a few big zipline canopy tours, and trust me these things are not very graceful. Picture the actor zipping down to the stage, very low because of the cable's slack, manually braking with thick gloves, making an obnoxious "vvvhhhrrrr" sound and then having to wait and unclip this big external harness and then send the trolley back up. Versus a graceful and largely silent swing in, where the actor is wearing a low profile harness under his costume and he is not required to brake or anything, plus you have certified and experienced technicians. Its really an easy thing to see.



I've never been zip lining myself, so the noise is a new one for me. I'll add that to my list of concerns.


venuetech said:


> With any flying effects company you would get the services of a highly qualified flight director.
> It is really the expertise of this flight director that will make the effect work for your show.
> can you find an indoor zip line effects company that has public performance experience and a flight director.



True. Even if a company came in and rigged one for us, they would probably just leave us to it without much help, maybe a lesson in getting in and out.


JohnD said:


> I have to ask, how often has the director been on a zip line?



No idea. Only have met her once, and she was quite reserved as I explained the intricacies of theater flying.


ruinexplorer said:


> One more flying company to contact. http://d2flying.com



I will contact them. Thanks.


jonliles said:


> Why a zip line? Why not swing on a rope disguised as a vine (with the appropriate life safety hardware). The flying companies previously mentioned should be able to help with that as well - it is still a type of flying.
> 
> Tarzan lived in a jungle, not a Tough Mudder obstacle course.



She doesn't want it to "look like Peter Pan flying". Her vision of flying is just that. Her whole directing vision for the show is based on having Tarzan come in via a grand entrance during "Son of Man", and what she sees in her head is him coming down on a zip line. I don't think she realizes how awkward that would be.


----------



## Terrence MacArthur (Apr 3, 2015)

Just watched the Jackman accident. OK. I'm going to give you two viewpoints. The first is if it was me on that thing. Accident? I'd have called it more of just a glitch. I would have just shrugged my shoulders, thought "no big thing", but probably would have found whoever set the thing up and told him to get his head out of his butt and make sure there wasn't anything that might get in the way next time. But that's my PERSONAL feeling if it's only ME in the situation. And My experience with zip lines started in Army paratrooper school in early '68, and personal danger doesn't bother me much as long as I think it can be managed. The second viewpoint is if I were the guy in charge of the whole thing, and someone else was going to be sliding down that thing. Back in the '70s I probably would have said OK. Just like I wouldn't have had a big problem flying, in some very limited way, an actor using just a counterweighted fly system, BUT this isn't the '70s. There are better, safer, ways of doing things, and today I wouldn't let it happen. Not if anyone's safety other than my own was involved.

I'm wondering if the director's insistence on a zip line stems from her never having seen any other way to do something like this. Maybe if you could get some vids or something, letting her see other methods that would not only be a lot safer but which would actually look better, you could get her to change her mind and then everyone would be happy. As things stand now, though, I'd tell her it can't be done, it's too dangerous, and nobody reputable is willing to assume the liability.


----------



## bobgaggle (Apr 3, 2015)

Maybe she wants Tarzan swinging from a rope that's attached to the zip line trolley? So maybe it kind of masks the pendulum look and he can travel further on only one 'vine'? So the vine would appear to be like 200' long and have a super long pendulum period? I don't know but that's what popped into my mind.

Personally it sounds like she doesn't have experience with flying, and consequently doesn't have the vocabulary to describe what she sees in her head. Its a problem I'm sure many here have run into a lot, with artistic folks trying to describe technical methods. Zip Line makes no sense, unless the entire production is going to feel a little campy too


----------



## NeverAnonymous (Apr 3, 2015)

A zip line is silly and unsafe... The track won't look like Peter Pan. Any company you hire will work with you to figure out what the director wants. (If I remember correctly, ZFX even has a Tarzan package)


----------



## bdkdesigns (Apr 3, 2015)

NeverAnonymous said:


> A zip line is silly and unsafe... The track won't look like Peter Pan. Any company you hire will work with you to figure out what the director wants. (If I remember correctly, ZFX even has a Tarzan package)



 That effect is at roughly 2:30


----------



## NeverAnonymous (Apr 4, 2015)

bdkdesigns said:


> That effect is at roughly 2:30



Yea, that's a very controlled decent in two directions. That's part of the ZFX Tarzan package I believe. It's not at all a zip line. Its a track that's clamped and aircraft cabled to the roof supports or a truss... (I've worked with ZFX once or twice)


----------



## venuetech (Apr 4, 2015)

I suspect that the over the audience track is a winch operated effect.

bdkdesigns said:


> That effect is at roughly 2:30



We just finished a production of Tarzan with ZFX , the base package was 1 track 2 pendulum points +harnesses.
I think we added 2 vines. So the over the house track might be part of a larger package.


----------



## DRU (Apr 4, 2015)

It looks like the over the audience track was automated. That may be out of their price range.


----------



## josh88 (Apr 4, 2015)

DRU said:


> It looks like the over the audience track was automated. That may be out of their price range.


I'm not as sure, I saw a show the Christmas that used a set up very similar to that also through zfx and it was winch controlled. It took a person cranking on it to make them travel. Though the up and down portion was a motorized winch to lift.


----------



## NeverAnonymous (Apr 4, 2015)

DRU said:


> It looks like the over the audience track was automated. That may be out of their price range.




josh88 said:


> I'm not as sure, I saw a show the Christmas that used a set up very similar to that also through zfx and it was winch controlled. It took a person cranking on it to make them travel. Though the up and down portion was a motorized winch to lift.




So ZFX has a range of options. They have full motorized systems, then they have winch control. Then they have combo ones. This could have been any of them. They all look basically the same of the two guys on the winch are decent


----------



## NickVon (Apr 6, 2015)

2:18, i think is the effect we are looking for, that the director is correctly identifying.


----------



## NeverAnonymous (Apr 6, 2015)

NickVon said:


> 2:18, i think is the effect we are looking for, that the director is correctly identifying.


I think everyone agrees that you should contact a company like ZFX and see what the can do


----------



## DRU (May 30, 2015)

UPDATE: ZFX has been contacted, a site survey was done, a contract was signed, dates have been scheduled, and things are moving forward. Thanks everyone for your help.

I have also discovered the source of the "zip line" idea. In the director's booklet from MTI/Disney, there is a page titled "Flying". The second paragraph says:

"Regardless of your approach, make adult Tarzan's entrance in 'Son of Man' your biggest 'flying' moment. For a simple solution, dead-hang a rope just off stage and have Tarzan swing on and release in mid-air like he's jumping from a swinging vine. A fancier option might be *utilizing a backyard zip line on which adult Tarzan can enter from the back of the house.* After that, you can keep the flying simpler, more representative. Not mater how your Tarzan flies, remember that the key to any 'wow factor' is not to overuse a device." (emphasis mine)

I mentioned this to our ZFX site survey representative, and he just shook his head. 

Does anyone else think this is stupid and a possible liability?


----------



## Terrence MacArthur (May 30, 2015)

How long ago was that manual written? Lots of things that were OK 40 odd years ago are now seen as too dangerous. Not because they're any more or less dangerous, but because safer and reasonably affordable options have come on line.

As for it being stupid and a possible liability, I'll admit that if I was the guy on the line I'd think it was fine. But if I was the guy in charge and someone else was going to be on the line, I wouldn't allow it to happen.


----------



## josh88 (May 30, 2015)

The musical was first done in 2006 so this particular guide would have been written in the last 10 years for sure. That seems like a pretty big oversight.


----------



## venuetech (May 30, 2015)

http://www.mtishows.com/ftp/TarzanProductionHandbook.pdf 
page 26

DisneyTheatricalLicensing.com
not sure just who should get informed, likeley someone on the MIT staff.
http://www.mtishows.com/content.asp?id=1_1_0#StaffDirectory


----------



## venuetech (May 30, 2015)

I sent a nice note to Drew Cohen. 
The production guide is a good resource and did provide a number of discussion starting points for our recent production. But I think I just passed over that line as we had an effects company lined up.


----------



## StradivariusBone (May 31, 2015)

That is a very dangerous oversight. The next paragraph is more representative of a safer way to do the gag:


> During “Strangers Like Me,” Tarzan teaches Jane to “fly” by sweeping her up into the jungle canopy. You can accomplish this feat without rigging either actor. Construct a one-level platform that can easily roll on and off stage and paint umbrellas to represent jungle leaves and flowers. With Tarzan and Jane atop the platform, have the ensemble surround the pair with open, undulating umbrellas and move across the stage, varying levels.



A lot of the Jr/Kids shows will list technical ideas geared towards the non-technical, but that description basically gives stage dads carte blance to dig out the come-a-longs and go nuts. Obvious safety aside, what are you going to do with all the gak for the zipline sitting on stage and over the crowd for the other 97% of the musical?


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (May 31, 2015)

I won't disagree with the general wisdom and advice, but I am perplexed as to why the zip line is thought so unsafe. Two anchors and a trolley. Compared to winches, much less to go wrong. Besides my extreme reticence to step off a little platform 30' in the air, I found it very simple at Philmont.

I agree that it seems contrary to the Tarzan images of swinging, but a separate issue from safety.

I wonder if the performer flying companies find it so simple that not interested.


----------



## DRU (May 31, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I won't disagree with the general wisdom and advice, but I am perplexed as to why the zip line is thought so unsafe. Two anchors and a trolley. Compared to winches, much less to go wrong. Besides my extreme reticence to step off a little platform 30' in the air, I found it very simple at Philmont.
> 
> I agree that it seems contrary to the Tarzan images of swinging, but a separate issue from safety.
> 
> I wonder if the performer flying companies find it so simple that not interested.



Every representative from the Big Three, when asked about zip lines, said pretty much the same thing: a zip line can't be controlled like a flying rig, and therefore they didn't want to put it up. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done before. In my research, I talked to the TD of The Muny in St. Louis, and they did a zip line across the audience, and worked with ZFX, but The Muny put up the cable, made the anchor points, got the trolley and lift cable, and ZFX provided the harness. What it came down to in my situation was this: I wasn't going to put up a zip line, the Big Three weren't going to put up a zip line, the church wasn't going to put up a zip line, so there wasn't going to be a zip line. I spent hours trying to convince the director to not use a zip line, and MTI/Disney suggesting it was the catalyst that started it (it appears), which could be a big liability for them when The Amateur Theatre Company hires Bob's Pretty Good Zip Line Company to do this effect based on this suggestion.


----------



## What Rigger? (Jun 1, 2015)

DRU said:


> UPDATE: ZFX has been contacted, a site survey was done, a contract was signed, dates have been scheduled, and things are moving forward. Thanks everyone for your help.
> 
> I have also discovered the source of the "zip line" idea. In the director's booklet from MTI/Disney, there is a page titled "Flying". The second paragraph says:
> 
> ...


Oh. My. F. Lorde. I have to go drink now.


----------

