# Concert Lighting Competition?



## LavaASU (Feb 2, 2012)

So I was thinking about there are theatre competitions of sorts, but nothing that I know of for concert lighting. I'm curious if any high school students would be interested in one? If there is interest I will look into LAVA hosting one. We are in Phoenix, AZ, so you would need to be either from the area or close enough to come.

Does anyone know of anything like this? What are your thoughts? And if you are in the area, would you be interested in competing if we were to hold a competition?


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## chausman (Feb 2, 2012)

What kind of competition?


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## LavaASU (Feb 2, 2012)

chausman said:


> What kind of competition?


 
Not sure. I have a few ideas:

1. Unknown (until you show up) rig, unknown song (ideally a live band), you have say an hour to design program.

2. Unknown rig, known song (so you can have ideas in mind, or possibly let people pick their own song), again let's say an hour to design/program.

3. Unknown pile of equipment (since this would be for HS rigging would probably have to be pre-done so you'd just get to place lights), unknown song, have say 2-3 hours to setup a rig and program something. Judged on both creativity with setup and design. This one would be a team so it could be done in a reasonable amount of time.

For either of the first 2 1-2 person teams, for the later say 4-6 people. I figure unknown gear would be best otherwise it would favor the schools/groups with the money to rent the gear that would be used to figure it out ahead of time (i've seen this with other types of competitions).


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## shiben (Feb 2, 2012)

LavaASU said:


> Not sure. I have a few ideas:
> 
> 1. Unknown (until you show up) rig, unknown song (ideally a live band), you have say an hour to design program.
> 
> ...


 
I would rather see known rig, unknown song. That way, there is less focus on "what do I do with these instruments that I know nothing about" and more "how do I use these instruments in ways that are interesting and effective for the song. To prevent the rig rental thing, just tell everyone say 1 day before the contest via email what the rig has, to give them time to come up with how to use things they might not know, and have an outline in their head. Basically, the problem with something like this is it turns into a "who has the most experience programing movers and LEDs", because someone from a tiny school who has never used anything but a 2 scene preset is no worse a designer than a kid from a huge one with a GMA 2, the difference is one knows how to program movers and the other has not had a chance yet, so the kid who has gets the preference. The thing about theater competitions is the artistic aspects kind of level out, the knowledge of gear is less important than knowing how to make art with it. Unless you are going to have a hundred PAR cans and nothing else, this contest automatically favors those who already program MLs a lot.


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## Pie4Weebl (Feb 2, 2012)

If I were to organize something like this here is what I'd do.

1. The only thing participants know prior to the gig is the console that will be there.
2. Find a friend who has a cover band with recordings of their arrangements of songs. 
3. Participants arrive, the rig is revealed to them, and they then can pick songs off the list provided by the cover band.
4. Each participant gets a "blank show" with the rig patch + default presets loaded.
5. They all get a 90-min to two hour block to program alone with the recording of the song.
6. Final night of the event each LD gets to run their cues live with Band to be judged by a panel of judges.
7. Group feedback session/ prizes awarded. Prizes could include things like: best overall, best timing, best colors, best shapes, etc.
8. Each participant goes home with judges notes about their song.

Seeing what shiben posted perhaps you could have a programmer/coach to help out each participant?


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## shiben (Feb 2, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> If I were to organize something like this here is what I'd do.
> 
> 1. The only thing participants know prior to the gig is the console that will be there.
> 2. Find a friend who has a cover band with recordings of their arrangements of songs.
> ...


 
I was thinking to make it a totally design competition, have a programmer who makes things happen, but the LD has to tell them EXACTLY what to do, ie make these tilt up and fan on a 3 count, and that will then happen. Disallow timecode, and have the LD run their own cues like mentioned. Only thing the programmer can ask the LD is "what is that looking like?" if the thing they ask for is convoluted.


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## Footer (Feb 2, 2012)

-LD Shows up
-LD spends for 2 hours helping to unload backline because one of the guitar techs pulled his back last night. 
-LD gets 10 minutes to focus and program after a 3 hour sound check that the artist insisted was in work light
-1 minute to start LD finds out the band he/she thought played progressive rock is actually a folk band
-LD tries to keep patrons from spilling beer on the console... and is moderately successful.
-During the out, the LD successfully avoids the promoter who was mad that he/she lit the cover of "Purple Rain" in all green... and its never brought up in settlement! 
-LD gets paid

+Plus 50 points for figuring out which house audio guy or backline guy is "the guy who knows how to get things". 

That is my idea of a concert design competition... and I don't like design competitions.


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## MrsFooter (Feb 2, 2012)

Footer said:


> -LD Shows up
> -LD spends for 2 hours helping to unload backline because one of the guitar techs pulled his back last night.
> -LD gets 10 minutes to focus and program after a 3 hour sound check that the artist insisted was in work light
> -1 minute to start LD finds out the band he/she thought played progressive rock is actually a folk band
> ...



You forgot the part where you have to kick the drunk girl out of the booth because she thinks she's in the bathroom.


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## Cadmium6855 (Feb 2, 2012)

Pie4Weebl said:


> If I were to organize something like this here is what I'd do.
> 
> 1. The only thing participants know prior to the gig is the console that will be there.
> 2. Find a friend who has a cover band with recordings of their arrangements of songs.
> ...


 
I'm graduating this year and would love to attend such an event. I'm a pretty fast programmer so I think the programmer is not needed as long as I know the console 3 days before. (believe it or not, i'm one of those people that reads the manual so I know how to use things) I could probably design, and program a decent show in 1-2hrs. But it would have to be mostly intels otherwise you would have to allow for focus time per participant, assuming you did not let them change any physical patching or locations of the instruments.

If anyone is serious about putting this on I would love to help organize it and make it happen.

Sounds Great!


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## chausman (Feb 2, 2012)

I could do something to help... to an extent. Unless it was the right time of year, I couldn't leave school for however long it would take to be get down to Phoenix, hold the competition, and then get back. During the summer however...hmm


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## Cadmium6855 (Feb 2, 2012)

chausman said:


> I could do something to help... to an extent. Unless it was the right time of year, I couldn't leave school for however long it would take to be get down to Phoenix, hold the competition, and then get back. During the summer however...hmm


 
I think summer would have it's up's and down's because although more people would be available for summer but word would be harder to spread.


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## LavaASU (Feb 3, 2012)

chausman said:


> I could do something to help... to an extent. Unless it was the right time of year, I couldn't leave school for however long it would take to be get down to Phoenix, hold the competition, and then get back. During the summer however...hmm


 
If we were to do it this year it would be in April. I was thinking we could potentially do it in conjunction with one of the concerts we're doing. Possibly even have the contestants run one of the warm up bands songs? There would definitely be no refocus-- we mainly use LEDs and movers for these shows-- let alone it would be setup on some sort of truss and the university would never allow a bunch of high school kids climbing truss.

I have no idea if this would be possible or not, but what would you think of this. Contestants each get a song, rep plot, and offline file with the patch say 48 hours out. They come the night before the show and each person/group gets 30-45 min to program/practice with the rig followed by a qualification run (to CD, basically to make sure they have something descent). They give the disks to us in the morning, we merge into a showfile and give everyone say 10 min to run through and make sure the merge was successful (obviously we would use a board that works well to merge show files) the next day. Possibly have classes on various topics that students can attend while not working with the rig. Then everyone that qualified runs their song with the warm up band (this is the not sure if it could be arranged part) during the show. Our staff would fill in on any that the person didn't qualify. Judges decide winners during the headliner. Then after the show have awards ceremony and masterclass.


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## Cadmium6855 (Feb 3, 2012)

That sounds like a great idea. Personally April would only work the first 2 weeks because I have 5 shows in the 2nd two (also I live in socal so its a drive)... I would love to help you organize this and possibly compete, we could get local companies to donate prizes, see if your faculty will run classes/workshops for competitors. Get a local hotel to give you group rates if you get enough people to come down. The real problem is getting people to come because if you want it in April thats only a month away... obviously there is always CB, but still. Another problem is the console, because some people could possibly have access to the same console and could take the patch and pre-program. But other than that, I think it's great but I don't think rushing is a good idea, maybe want to hold off 3-4 months, incorporate audio and video (depending on available equipment) but i'm sure some companies would donate equipment to this, for sponsorship (getting sponsors is kind of my secondary function, lol). 

Let me know what you think!


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## Pie4Weebl (Feb 3, 2012)

I wouldn't merge showfiles... With people using a mass of groups and effects it would get messy really quickly, if possible I'd get two desks with a DMX switch, load up the next persons file as the current person is on.


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## Footer (Feb 3, 2012)

I think you are on the right track with turning this into more of a class. There is no point judging people if the competition is not at least competitive. If you are going to get this gear together, at least give the kids some instruction before they get cut loose. If you want to do the contest as the "capstone" event, fine.


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## shiben (Feb 9, 2012)

Footer said:


> I think you are on the right track with turning this into more of a class. There is no point judging people if the competition is not at least competitive. If you are going to get this gear together, at least give the kids some instruction before they get cut loose. If you want to do the contest as the "capstone" event, fine.


 
Now thats an idea. Do a weekend or school week workshop on Concert Lighting Design with a few highly experienced designers, teach the kids how to use the stuff, then use the OLE to get each kid working on stuff, by the end of the week have a showfile for a song from a reasonably cool band (probably a cool local act, I know GR had a few that would have loved to play for this kind of thing) and have them available during the day to go over ideas, then do a concert at the end with all the kids designs on stage. That would be cool.


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