# How many are still in the industry?



## edwinfrancis (Dec 8, 2018)

Hey guys!

So I was wondering how many of you on here are still in the industry? Be it corporate AV, theatre or rock n roll kinda stuff. Do you do it full time meaning that it's your bread a butter, or on the side (I know some people who have day jobs but work at night in the arts as directors/actors/designers and some occasionally as techs etc)

And if you left why? If you haven't, what kept you going, how do you deal with all the negatives that come with the job?

I'm curious to see why , I myself am a sorta fresh grad (been in the game professionally for a year and did crewing for a job before and throughout uni) had been contemplating leaving due to personal financial reasons and also cause I felt like I never fit in properly and the hours had gotten to me (the time away from friends/family, consistently missing big life events took a toll on my emotional state). The work-life balance thing was also a big factor. But part of me felt live I've come so far and was lucky to have pretty sweet gigs for a fresh grad so why back out now.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 8, 2018)

I started working in backstage in 6th grade and have not done much else for nearly 55 years. Have considered different roles, but never not in theatre.


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## egilson1 (Dec 8, 2018)

I started in high school. Haven’t looked back. Worked in theatre, corporate and special events, even spent years in the prowrestling business. Can’t imagine doing anything else.


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## Colin (Dec 8, 2018)

Going on 15 years in. In five more working at a nonprofit my federal graduate loans will be forgiven. After that it will suddenly not be so worthwhile and I'll seriously consider moving into residential carpentry where I have skills and a family connection. Hard to abandon decades of skill and experience, but as long as I'm making things I'll be happy, and this business, even in education, is tough on family in terms of schedule and pay.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 8, 2018)

I know a lot of tech theatre people who have transitioned to homebuilding and related. They're better at that for having been in theatre. (And then there are the actor/director friends and classmates - who transitioned to preaching in mega churches. A whole other subject.)


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## Footer (Dec 8, 2018)

Colin said:


> Going on 15 years in. In five more working at a nonprofit my federal graduate loans will be forgiven.



Hope that actually works for you. I just passed the 10 year out of school mark and a lot of my friends are having trouble cashing in on that program. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/the...-data-shows-how-rare-loan-forgiveness-is.html

As for the OP... the life in this business can be stupid hard. A lot of people that have longevity have moved onto admin rolls where you are outside of the show schedule or working in a shop. @BillConnerFASTC is a consultant. If you want a spouse/family/vacation/normal life then get out of the business. Pay is low. Work is hard. Benefits are very hard to find. Most of the well paying work involves months away from home travel. You really need to be addicted to it to stick with it. If you would be happy doing anything else go do that.


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## RonHebbard (Dec 8, 2018)

Footer said:


> Hope that actually works for you. I just passed the 10 year out of school mark and a lot of my friends are having trouble cashing in on that program. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/the...-data-shows-how-rare-loan-forgiveness-is.html
> 
> As for the OP... the *life in this business can be stupid hard*. A lot of people that have longevity have moved onto admin rolls where you are outside of the show schedule or working in a shop. @BillConnerFASTC is a consultant. If you want a spouse/family/vacation/*normal life* _then get out of the business_. Pay is low. Work is hard. Benefits are very* hard to find*. *Most of the well paying work involves months away from home travel*. You really need to be *addicted* to it to stick with it. If you would be happy doing anything else go do that.


 *@edwinfrancis* In support of what *@Footer* is trying to tell you: Basically you have to *NEED* to do theatre with a passion. Personally, I found myself having to turn down family wedding invitations with more than a year's notice as I knew exactly where my buttocks would be committed to be sitting and in what city on any given Friday or Saturday. From a family POV, your relatives tire of trying to include you in their plans even when six months to more than a year in the future. You may find yourself in a responsible position with a large repertory theatre OR in a responsible position touring North America plus Frankfurt, Germany and London, England travelling by air and being housed in FABULOUS hotels all the while knowing you'd be committing 'career suicide' if you told your employers you needed to fly home for 24-48 hours to attend a wedding. One of my employers threw a 'total hissy fit' upon receiving a phone call from a cancer specialist who couldn't comprehend why they wouldn't entertain his suggestion of my undergoing surgery the very day before our season's official opening. 
I won't bore you with details but *@Footer* 's definitely spot on when he tells you you'll work long and hard to work your way in and up then periodically find yourself trapped in various familial / medical / situations which most folks would assume would be easily accommodated. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## RickR (Dec 8, 2018)

I got started very young and got serious in high school. At age 30 I burned out due to a bad ratios of art/money/work/time.

Almost 15 years later I found myself getting involved again as if everything I had done to so far was aiming me at this work. I may retire, but I'll never quit!


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## JChenault (Dec 8, 2018)

I was living in NYC - selling Lighting for Kliegl - and realized I did not have the skills I would need to make it as a Lighting Designer in the city. ( Not artistic skills - networking and people skills) Or at least that is what I believed at the time.

I moved into writing software, ended up in Seattle, and now do about 6 shows a year in a reasonably equipped community theatre.

I do it because I love it ( the design part - not the electrician part ) .


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## BillESC (Dec 8, 2018)

I started in community theatre in 1965 at 15.

In 1969 went to the NY Academy of Theatrical Arts. Caught a role in an Off B'way musical "Touch." 400+ performances later the show closed and I started shaping up for Local One.

Twists and turns heading into 1972 found me working at Times Square Theatrical Lighting on 48th street. Started my company in 1973.

My hobby as a youth has provided my living.


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## TimMc (Dec 9, 2018)

edwinfrancis said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> So I was wondering how many of you on here are still in the industry? Be it corporate AV, theatre or rock n roll kinda stuff. Do you do it full time meaning that it's your bread a butter, or on the side (I know some people who have day jobs but work at night in the arts as directors/actors/designers and some occasionally as techs etc)
> 
> ...



I started in tech in grade school and was a performing arts edu major in college. Found out I hated teaching in classrooms. Did several other things (general aviation manufacturing, counseled delinquent youth, recording electronics sales) and finally took the first rock band out of town and was gone, on and off, for almost 8 years. I still love what I do, I'm learning new stuff all the time and I get to work with some remarkable performers, actors and musicians. I've learned to deal with opera divas, stage-frightened actors and excitable corporate presenters (a psychologist, no less) - I bet I'm the only one on my block that can say those things!  

A number of extended family things I missed because of shows or travel days, some of which I now believe were incorrectly prioritized at the time. Can't go back and change things but the benefit of age and experience is relatively new to me. 

It's a young, single persons game unless your SigOthr is also in the biz. If you want to be a part of your kid's lives, if your parents, in-laws or spouse have expectations of "normal" family life, 8 to 5, M-F jobs, holidays off (and paid)... this industry isn't compatible, whether full time corporate theatre/AV, touring or regional theatre, national-regional/touring sound/lights/video/SFX, or even mega-worship places.

For young folks not yet discouraged, please come work with us. Start early so we old farts can retire.


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## Colin (Dec 10, 2018)

Footer said:


> Hope that actually works for you. I just passed the 10 year out of school mark and a lot of my friends are having trouble cashing in on that program. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/21/the...-data-shows-how-rare-loan-forgiveness-is.html



True the program has been incredibly mismanaged by Dept. of Ed and their private loan servicers, but as I've tracked all the issues over the years they all seem to be cases of people not doing the work to sort through all the requirements which have always been available to view online but only more recently in a reasonable format. Aside from bad administration, I recall another source of confusion was that the program started out with a broader reach including some for-profits that provide certain public services, and then Bush admin regulated that away so people who weren't keeping up on the changes found out later that their employment didn't qualify.

You have to have a Direct Loan, and you have to make 120 payments through one of a specific set of payment options that are income based, all while employed full time in government or a 501(c)(3) or another non-profit if it provides certain public services. Seems like lots of people have been tripped up by one or more of the requirements. There's a form to fill out, the Employment Certification for Public Service Loan Forgiveness form. It isn't true that you have to wait until you believe you've made all qualifying payments before you apply. The form exists for you to file along the way to check progress - something the private servicers have been dishonest about, but which is clear coming from Dept. of Ed. I submit annually as recommended, and the Dept. of Ed responds by telling me that I still qualify and am on track. All the stories lately about the disappointments of this first year of eligibility cite enormous numbers of denied applications, but they don't explain whether or not those applicants actually met the requirements as advertised - sort of silly reporting.

Dept. of Ed has always done a poor job with the program though, and they don't currently support it and would like it to go away. They have legal obligations to follow through, but people may have to take considerable initiative to get what they're entitled to.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Dec 10, 2018)

Started in high school. Went to school for my BFA in design. After various freelance gigs as my main source of income for the first 7 years out of college, I started full time at Northwestern in 2017. Haven't really thought about doing anything else in all those years.


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## Joshua Schoeneck (Dec 12, 2018)

Started doing A/V work in grade school and have been involved ever since. My full-time job is teaching high school, though I've transitioned to more of an administrative role in the last few years. I do lighting, A/V, and set construction for my school's 3 shows a year plus various other smaller events in our theater to fill the extra-curricular role in my contract. I find it very fulfilling work, but I'm not sure I'd want to make the move to doing theater work full-time since I enjoy the other aspects of my job as well.


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## jhochb (Dec 12, 2018)

Good Morning 

40+ years in
No end in sight

Had a day job at an aerospace factory for a bit while LDing for a rock band ( RCA records )
ETCP CEE
Installer/ Bench tech at Barbizon for 20+ yrs
now donig bench/ AV for corprate with a few ME for big power gigs a couple times a year

will work for........


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## Scarrgo (Dec 12, 2018)

My father was an executive director of a small theater that did summer stock, and touring/local community shows, so as an infant my playpen was in the lobby, and I ate yellow orchid paint out of the can(really did that-I am fine, I think) I had small roles through out my childhood, helped backstage when I could, ran carbon arc spot starting at 10. I worked at a college theater till I was picked up to go on the road, 10 off broadway, and 5 music tours later, oh, and I got married(the phantom husband) and had kids, and missed most of their growing up. 
Now I work as a TD for High School theater, very very very lucky to have a somewhat decent salary and benefits, and work in theater. I also work at as many local venues as possible to supplement my income, I am never home. 

I guess what I am trying to say as others, if you want to do this kind of work, it will be very hard but it can be worth it. You will miss everything... But only you can say "Yes, this I want". 

But we hope you do...
Sean...


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## MessageBox (Dec 12, 2018)

Put myself through College in the late 70's / 80's for a diverse mix of performances (classic theater, rock n roll, revivals, etc) - very luck to have been able to tech for some of the biggest traveling bands and performances of the time. Leveraged my engineering and diverse set of skills. Started my real career in high tech and didn't look back, until my daughter started theater in middle school. We have a school system that is well supported and thus it has lighting, audio and auditorium spaces. I engaged as I couldn't stand the feedback during her first performance. I've found a small niche in the middle school and have a great deal of fun working with the middle schoolers that show an interest in learning lighting, audio and behind the curtain production elements. The best thing is when they realize that there's no backing up from a live performance error and the need for focus and listening to a peer that's the lead is crucial. It's a fun diversion and not my day job - much more satisfying in many respects. High school tried to pull me in to their environment, I had to pass on that opportunity as I didn't need that drama. 

I have several friends that are different areas of the business though not in the direct tech performance side.


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## James K (Dec 12, 2018)

Theatre has been a part of my life since my freshman year of high school. Since then I have worked in almost every capacity on stage and off. Professionally, I worked as a Production manager, stage manager, lighting designer for 25+ years. Got a little tired of being out of town, went back to school and got my MA in Theatre Ed and my teaching certification. Now I am the TD and Fine Arts Chair at a large (6A) high school where I have a large theatre and a black box to play with.


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## lorilights (Dec 12, 2018)

I started in Middle School, then got my degree. Worked free-lance for awhile but the pay and irregularity (too many jobs in March and December, not enough the rest of the year) led me to a job as TD/LD and adjunct faculty at a Community College PAC. Started part-time but have been full time for 17 years. I love having my spaces to light in (same as James K above) and I also love seeing how the touring shows interpret my space. Feel very fortunate to be doing what I love, plus I have way too many vacation and comp days in a year. Highly recommend getting a degree so that when you are in your 50s you can switch to education, if not before.


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## Marcus Petrella (Dec 12, 2018)

I started in High School in the late '90s, though my family has been involved in community theatre since before i was born. I got my tech theatre BS in 2003, and did the overhire thing around Chicago for a while and ended up as a very green PM for a theatre when the PM passed unexpectedly. Financial crisis hit in 2008, the theatre survived through a couple of location changes and with some new leadership. Ultimately, I was a bit burned out and when my part-time sales job had a full-time opening I took it. 

At that same time some folks my parents know from church were getting a theatre program for the local Catholic grade schools started. I had time, and my mom sort of volunteered me to help them. Turns out it was a great group of families who are some of the most grateful people I have ever worked with. I receive so many sincere thank yous every day I work with them. It's never been a source of real income, but the families who got it off the ground have become great friends to my wife and I (I roped her into helping when we were first dating, and thank God I did, she's a better LD than I am). They came to our wedding a few years ago, and threw us a baby shower for our first child last year. It's gone from a program within the Catholic schools doing single musical in the spring for grade school performers , to a 501(c)(3) of it's own producing a Christmas show & spring Musical for the kids and a summer production for adult performers.

It also led me to a paid position as an ATD at the High School I started at. 18 year old me would be amazed at the enjoyment I get from working in a school theatre.

It can be hectic and exhausting, but I wouldn't give it up.

Now, if I can just figure out how to get the theatre work to pay enough I don't need the sales job....


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 12, 2018)

All this reminds me of the classic joke:

A guy works in the circus, following the elephants with a pail and shovel. One day, his brother comes to see him. He says, “Sam, I’ve got great news. I’ve got you a job in my office. You’ll wear a suit and tie, work regular hours, and start at a nice salary. How about it? 
Sam says, “What? And give up show business?


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## porkchop (Dec 13, 2018)

I'm the odd ball I think. Almost 15 years in to working professionally and live entertainment has always been the best financial as well as personal choice. One day proper engineering may pull me away, but so far so good.


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## porkchop (Dec 13, 2018)

gafftapegreenia said:


> All this reminds me of the classic joke:
> 
> A guy works in the circus, following the elephants with a pail and shovel. One day, his brother comes to see him. He says, “Sam, I’ve got great news. I’ve got you a job in my office. You’ll wear a suit and tie, work regular hours, and start at a nice salary. How about it?
> Sam says, “What? And give up show business?



That's a joke? Change the name to Lorenzo and I can tell you that his costume was red and his elephant was named Emily. Guy quit and came back less than a year later.


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## BrianWolfe (Dec 13, 2018)

Started in 1981 running the vaccuum form machine and working as an artisan. General manager now but still get to do a little welding and carpentry every now and then. 37 years and counting.


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## klane2 (Dec 13, 2018)

I've been in the industry for almost 20 years working as a stagehand and managing a theatre at a University. starting to transition into Student Affairs leadership. Have loved theatre and always will, but it's nice to have more of a life.


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## bobgaggle (Dec 13, 2018)

Still in it 6 years after college. Moved away from producing shows with their insane schedules and took a job in a scene shop. Best decision ever. Lets me balance work/life, especially since I've got 2 little kids and another one on the way. Don't know if I'd do it forever. I could see myself in some other industry, as long as I get to make stuff with my hands. My mom showed me a scrap of paper I had scrawled on in 5th grade. It said, "I will never have a desk job." Mostly true. I've got a desk now, but I still get up to rip down sheet goods or nail a flat together, so I think I'm true to my fifth grade self.


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## NickVon (Jan 7, 2019)

I work managing a venue (and often times doing much technical work for rentals) and also free lance with a couple of other local companies, and on my own with local HS/Community/Professional Theater. Though my day job is actively in entertainment my primary income is from being the Managing/Technical Director for our Theater, and not actively touring /union work or doing roadshows.


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## ruinexplorer (Jan 14, 2019)

edwinfrancis said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> So I was wondering how many of you on here are still in the industry? Be it corporate AV, theatre or rock n roll kinda stuff. Do you do it full time meaning that it's your bread a butter, or on the side (I know some people who have day jobs but work at night in the arts as directors/actors/designers and some occasionally as techs etc)
> 
> I'm curious to see why , I myself am a sorta fresh grad (been in the game professionally for a year and did crewing for a job before and throughout uni) had been contemplating leaving due to personal financial reasons and also cause I felt like I never fit in properly and the hours had gotten to me (the time away from friends/family, consistently missing big life events took a toll on my emotional state). The work-life balance thing was also a big factor. But part of me felt live I've come so far and was lucky to have pretty sweet gigs for a fresh grad so why back out now.



Yes, I am still with it (over 25 years). I got a 2-year degree in theater, prior to getting my Bachelor's degree in Anthropology (emphasis in archaeology). Now I am more involved than I ever thought that I would be.

Money woes are common in this industry, which is why many consider getting a degree not worth the money. 
If the hours don't fit you, there are many different jobs in the entertainment sector that can offer stable hours (working in-house AV or at a rental shop for instance).


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## Lextech (Jan 14, 2019)

Got thrown behind a soundboard my freshman year of college and haven't left but have learned more skills and added roles. I run tech for a PAC at a University and even get to teach once in a while. And no, you don't get rich working in higher ed, but it is a steady paycheck with benefits.


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## icewolf08 (Jan 19, 2019)

I got my start in theatre in middle school. Ultimately went to college for theatre production, and have been working in the industry ever since. Worked on cruise ships, worked in regional theatre, worked summer stock, and now I build rock-n-roll shows at TAIT.

It's true, certainly when you work in non-profit, regional theatre, we do it because we love it, not because it is glamorous and pays a lot (because it isn't and it doesn't). Moving to the corporate world of TAIT was certainly a change, but it has been a great experience. Still love what I do!


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## DuckJordan (Jan 26, 2019)

started in high school, through the small portion of college. Into professional word, left for 6 months (work dried up) now fully employed at a road house.


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## Darin (May 30, 2019)

Worked a backstage crew in 10th grade (to spend more time with my girlfriend). Got my BFA in Lighting Design and MFA in Stage Design. Freelanced at various companies and venues for the past 19 years, and have been a full time theatre professor since 2017


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## BillESC (May 31, 2019)

Worked on my first show in 1966. Have another show Saturday.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 12, 2019)

Well, did that thing where I got out of my actual theatre job and started working for a fabrication shop making props, furniture and set pieces for high end events, trade shows, brand events, auto companies, etc etc.


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## josh88 (Jun 12, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Well, did that thing where I got out of my actual theatre job and started working for a fabrication shop making props, furniture and set pieces for high end events, trade shows, brand events, auto companies, etc etc.


Is there some place in Michigan doing that? Didn't know of anybody around here.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 12, 2019)

josh88 said:


> Is there some place in Michigan doing that? Didn't know of anybody around here.



https://dg-3d.com/

Oh, and the Parade Company does model work as well


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## RonHebbard (Jun 12, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Well, did that thing where I got out of my actual theatre job and started working for a fabrication shop making props, furniture and set pieces for high end events, trade shows, brand events, auto companies, etc etc.


 *@gafftapegreenia* AND*?* How has that worked for you*??* Was it the right thing to do or another case of greener grass*??? * (I did the same and it was DEFINITELY the right thing for me.) [Working in a shop took me to Broadway many times, Offenbach / Frankfurt, Germany three times, London, England once and Berlin twice.]
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## josh88 (Jun 12, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> https://dg-3d.com/
> https://dg-3d.com/
> 
> Oh, and the Parade Company does model work as well


Good to know thanks!


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 12, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@gafftapegreenia* AND*?* How has that worked for you*??* Was it the right thing to do or another case of greener grass*??? * (I did the same and it was DEFINITELY the right thing for me.) [Working in a shop took me to Broadway many times, Offenbach / Frankfurt, Germany three times, London, England once and Berlin twice.]
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



Its my second experience working at a for-hire fabrication shop. I definitely enjoy working for different clients and getting to go to locations other than the same theatre over and over again.


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