# Unusual projection problem



## lilricky (Jan 6, 2019)

My boss came up with an idea the other day. He would like to project "Welcome to" on the steel portion of this bridge. West facing location. Projector, pin spot w/ gobo? City wont allow a banner. Any ideas appreciated.


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## RonHebbard (Jan 6, 2019)

lilricky said:


> My boss came up with an idea the other day. He would like to project "Welcome to" on the steel portion of this bridge. West facing location. Projector, pin spot w/ gobo? City wont allow a banner. Any ideas appreciated.View attachment 17259


 
*@lilricky* Since no one else has posted yet, what are you seeing as a problem? If you want to maximize your intensity consider making your gobo in two or three sections and using narrower lenses to increase your intensity. Let me call *@GreyWyvern* and his team of Apollo apollites for you. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## lilricky (Jan 6, 2019)

Thx,
I think my question might with the light source. Any recommendations?


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## seanandkate (Jan 6, 2019)

I would use a Source 4 (usually more durable in an outside environment than a projector) and choose the beam angle based on where you can mount it. A LOT will depend on that. You want to try to get as on-axis as you can to avoid lateral keystoning. If you can get an LED Source 4, then you can more easily make your own gobo out of a transparency, and tweek any keystoning issues yourself.


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## danTt (Jan 6, 2019)

How long is this hoped to be installed for? Do you have a location for equipment that is sheltered from weather or does this gear need to be outdoor rates? Does this need to be visible at all times or only when dark?


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## Jay Ashworth (Jan 6, 2019)

Yeah, the fundamental question is "Does this need to be really well readable in bright sunlight?"

If it does, you're going to be hard pressed to do it with theatrical equipment, I suspect. Noon sun is 7-9 stops brighter than a brightly lit stage, IIRC.


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## Amiers (Jan 7, 2019)

This looks like a desolate area will anyone even see this?

I would say maybe sway his opinion to some sort of banner that is close to but not on the bridge. Maybe from the front building to the back building on the right.


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## microstar (Jan 7, 2019)

Maybe project from the top window of the building to a large area of the underside of the bridge, as it might be in shade all the time and you will have a much brighter image.


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## lilricky (Jan 7, 2019)

seanandkate said:


> I would use a Source 4 (usually more durable in an outside environment than a projector) and choose the beam angle based on where you can mount it. A LOT will depend on that. You want to try to get as on-axis as you can to avoid lateral keystoning. If you can get an LED Source 4, then you can more easily make your own gobo out of a transparency, and tweek any keystoning issues yourself.



I like this idea, I'm guessing an led source 4 to keep the transparency from melting.


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## lilricky (Jan 7, 2019)

danTt said:


> How long is this hoped to be installed for? Do you have a location for equipment that is sheltered from weather or does this gear need to be outdoor rates? Does this need to be visible at all times or only when dark?



This will be a permanent install. Visible from late dusk to about 12am.


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## lilricky (Jan 7, 2019)

Amiers said:


> This looks like a desolate area will anyone even see this?
> 
> I would say maybe sway his opinion to some sort of banner that is close to but not on the bridge. Maybe from the front building to the back building on the right.



We thought about a banner of some sort, but the city put the kibash on that idea. Actually, this bridge is 15' from our front door.


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## lilricky (Jan 7, 2019)

danTt said:


> How long is this hoped to be installed for? Do you have a location for equipment that is sheltered from weather or does this gear need to be outdoor rates? Does this need to be visible at all times or only when dark?



It'll need to be outdoor rated, but will only need to be visible from dusk to about 12am


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## seanandkate (Jan 7, 2019)

lilricky said:


> I'm guessing an led source 4 to keep the transparency from melting.



Yup. But if it's going to be a permanent install, once you're happy with the image on the transparency, get one made in glass for more durability.


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## ruinexplorer (Jan 7, 2019)

How

lilricky said:


> This will be a permanent install. Visible from late dusk to about 12am.



Video projection should not be a consideration then. I would look at a beam projector aimed at the "architainment" market. Something like these.


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## cbrandt (Jan 7, 2019)

Elation and Chauvet both have very nice outdoor rated LED projectors.

Apollo's GoboPro+ is surprisingly powerful for such a small package.


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## Ford (Jan 7, 2019)

Hi Ricky,
The Ovation E260-WW IP is designed for just this sort of application. Ask your local Dealer or Rep for a demo.
One note... any fixture this bright is not going to do well with a transparency gobo. It will melt. You will want to use a steel gobo.
Appollo 3303 is a standard (cheap) gobo which says "WELCOME", but I'm not aware of any standard gobo which says "Welcome To".

-HTH,
-Ford


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## lilricky (Jan 8, 2019)

Ford said:


> Hi Ricky,
> The Ovation E260-WW IP is designed for just this sort of application. Ask your local Dealer or Rep for a demo.
> One note... any fixture this bright is not going to do well with a transparency gobo. It will melt. You will want to use a steel gobo.
> Appollo 3303 is a standard (cheap) gobo which says "WELCOME", but I'm not aware of any standard gobo which says "Welcome To".
> ...


As long as it says ‘Welcome to Knuckleheads’


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## Ford (Jan 8, 2019)

Lol...
Custom gobo it is!!!!


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## theatricalmatt (Jan 8, 2019)

If you want to get *really* bright, you could go with something like a Jo-Leko, which is a high-power HMI lamp fitted onto a Source Four body.

http://www.k5600.com/products/bugabeam_1600/index.html

You'll definitely want a steel template for this; although, I've been told they can easily distort steel templates because of the very high illuminance passing through the gate.

You might want to check with city officials to see "how bright is too bright."


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## Ancient Engineer (Jan 9, 2019)

The first choice that comes to mind is the simple route: paint. Cheap, quick, easy to "erase" when you are done with the "welcoming"...
Failing that:
A laser head like a NuSalt or the like could put enough photon density on that pleasantly neutral-ish grey beam to be seen in the setting sun.
Ummm... Mole Richardson 20" Tener with a tophat and double metal gobos. Something like 300FC @ 100' spotted to 20' dia. if my spongy brain remembers the charts...

The Jo-Leko is only really 1600w and most HMI type instruments are way not IP rated for outdoor use.

I agree with the other posters contention that yer basic S4 (or any other type simple theater lighting) isn't going to have enough oomph to be seen on a _west facing _beam at dusk.

So, if it has to be light, at dusk, on a west facing grey beam, I vote for a laser system. (or paint)


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## Dschutt (Jan 9, 2019)

lilricky said:


> My boss came up with an idea the other day. He would like to project "Welcome to" on the steel portion of this bridge. West facing location. Projector, pin spot w/ gobo? City wont allow a banner. Any ideas appreciated.View attachment 17259




Little Rock AR. Projects different colors onto several bridges useing lasers or led. No message just coloring the bridge. You may be able to google pics


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## lilricky (Jan 9, 2019)

Ford said:


> Hi Ricky,
> The Ovation E260-WW IP is designed for just this sort of application. Ask your local Dealer or Rep for a demo.
> One note... any fixture this bright is not going to do well with a transparency gobo. It will melt. You will want to use a steel gobo.
> Appollo 3303 is a standard (cheap) gobo which says "WELCOME", but I'm not aware of any standard gobo which says "Welcome To".
> ...


Maybe I missed it, but is there anyway to correct keystoning, or blades to control the light?


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## Jay Ashworth (Jan 9, 2019)

A laser projector, like something from Pangolin, is an excellent idea that I hadn't thought of...


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## Ford (Jan 9, 2019)

lilricky said:


> Maybe I missed it, but is there anyway to correct keystoning, or blades to control the light?


There are standard shutters, but keystoning would need to be addressed in the Gobo design. 
This is basically an Outdoor rated LED elipsoidal.


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## lilricky (Jan 10, 2019)

Thanks


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## lilricky (Jan 10, 2019)

Ford said:


> There are standard shutters, but keystoning would need to be addressed in the Gobo design.
> This is basically an Outdoor rated LED elipsoidal.


Could you point me to a tutorial or a formula for calculating keystonning?


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## derekleffew (Jan 10, 2019)

https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/have-you-heard-keystone-correction-gobos.44360/#post-386229


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