# Scenic Automation



## SparkyLD86 (Feb 19, 2014)

My question is. I know that most touring productions and a lot of broadway houses, and so forth have sets and scenic elements that travel on and off stage via tracks. I understand that there is automation cable underneath. How does it work, where can you purchase, and are there other options other than cable. (I.e, motors). Any help, especially photos and links would be very helpful.


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## Footer (Feb 19, 2014)

Creativeconners.com. They are one of the few commercially available automation systems. Most touring and Broadway automation systems are custom designed systems. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk


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## HFX (Feb 20, 2014)

I have made some things like this, but all custom stuff. So, geared DC motors (turning drive wheels rather than cable loop systems), batteries to avoid festoonage, and wireless controls depending on how much wireless is already going on. I prefer simple, easily replaceable components. It is hard to make a one size fits all , due to weight, height, etc. Is this something you would do yourself? Or do you need off the shelf plug and play?


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## SparkyLD86 (Feb 20, 2014)

I wouldn't do it myself no, it would be bought. I'm studying technical theater right now, and I'm working on a project for scenic design class. We won't be learning this but I want to incorporate it into my design for the project. I wouldn't need to physically purchase it, but more so need to know how it works and photos.


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## kicknargel (Feb 21, 2014)

If you really want to get into it, get "Mechanical Design for the Stage" by Alan Hendrickson. Otherwise, +1 for Creative Conners.

The most basic idea is: 

A winch somewhere offstage drives a wire rope (aircraft cable). This is a continuous loop system, so it can push and pull
The cable runs in a groove/track in the stage surface, goes around a sheave and returns to the winch, usually through a groove cut into the underside of the 3/4" stage surface.
The cable is attached to a "dog" which is a few-inch piece of metal or plastic that travels in the track.
The wagon has two "knives" that drop down into the track to guide it along. One of these is connected to the dog, and this drives the wagon.
There are limit switches set on the winch or in the track that cut the motor at the ends of travel.
There are emergency stop buttons strategically located, and other safety systems in place.


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## Sam Wesley (Feb 21, 2014)

As others have pointed out, Creative Conners is undoubtedly the best automation solution for scenic automation in small to medium sized theatres.
However, if you're not prepared to invest thousands in a complete system, I suggest you explore other options.
One of these would be to design a stage deck using the same principles used for modern automation. Kicknargel has written a pretty good overview of how such a system would work.
Instead of using electronic winches and a complicated control system, hand winches controlled by stage hands could be employed. This method of 'automation' has been around for 100+ years - in Italy at least.

Take a look at this video of an Italian musical: 

The scenery is moved using the method I have outlined here, and it looks pretty good. I was convinced that they were using some sort of computer controlled system until I contacted the scenic studio and they explained to me how it all worked.


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## josh88 (Feb 21, 2014)

We used to have a member of their staff on the forums but he may not be active anymore. Which reminds me I still need to walk across the street and see their facility.

Edit: iandonahue though it looks like he was last seen in 2012
Via tapatalk


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## SparkyLD86 (Feb 21, 2014)

Everything you are sending is quite helpful!!


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## bw0000 (Feb 24, 2014)

How noisy are hand winches? I was looking into them to operate some pulleys that I'll be rigging to my main drape to create portals. But I feel like they are quite loud, like ratchet straps, yes? Any advice is appreciated.


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## Sam Wesley (Feb 24, 2014)

bw0000 said:


> How noisy are hand winches? I was looking into them to operate some pulleys that I'll be rigging to my main drape to create portals. But I feel like they are quite loud, like ratchet straps, yes? Any advice is appreciated.



I guess it really depends on the hand winch you get. I've worked with some which make no noise at all.


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## bw0000 (Feb 24, 2014)

Can you recall any specific brands?


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## bobgaggle (Mar 3, 2014)

I worked some shop built hand winches for small turntables that are silent. Barebones, they're a piece of 8 or 10" steel pipe with a handle on the end that the vinyl coated cable wraps around a few times. Depending on the friction in the system and the amount of abuse the unit is going to receive from actors/dancers, they may or may not need a braking system, but i've seen them with a barrel latch to lock it in place.

The hand winches used for overhead lifting you're referring to do have a ratcheting system to keep the load from running away and pretty big gear ratios so you can hoist hundreds of pounds without much effort. But no one would use these to fly pieces during a show, because the gear reduction makes the pieces move at a snail's pace, and they can be really dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. I've only seen them once or twice and they've been used for dedicated electrics.


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