# trestle ladders with extension



## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 29, 2014)

Anyone still using these - the basic A'frame with center fly or extension? Werner and others still sell them. Unclear if you are allowed by OSHA to climb it or if it can only be used to support scaffold planks. Seems like a viable solution for a very low use facility where they will never afford a lift.


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## Footer (Oct 29, 2014)

I have cut up at least two in the last 5 years at two places I have worked. They are still all over middle school, high school, and college campuses. The fiberglass ones are better, but still not right. No reason to buy one when you can buy a good scaffold for the same price.... especially when you consider that to most the actually useful you have to put them on a dolly.

I would NEVER consider these a viable solution unless you are using them as intended... as a painters scaffold. Even then, there are much better solutions.


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## JChenault (Oct 29, 2014)

If we are talking about the old fashioned a frame with an extension that goes straight up ( I did a google search but could not find it ) - then yes we still have one in our space. It gets almost no yes any more ( good thing as it sent me to the ER twice ) since we replace our house lights with LED units.

I disagree slightly with footer. I think they are useful if you do not have a clear floor. For example if you have to set up between rows of seats.


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## MarshallPope (Oct 29, 2014)

Honestly, I much prefer an A-frame with an extension on wheels over a Genie lift. I feel infinitely safer on one. Once you get the hang of crawling over the top and locking your leg in, I fel very secure 35' in the air, as opposed to a Genie where you are swaying all over the place.


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## gafftaper (Oct 29, 2014)

I'm with Footer. Chop them up! A painter's scaffold is far safer and doesn't cost that much more. 

Also people should consider the new Little Giant Aerial Safety Cage. 


MarshallPope said:


> Honestly, I much prefer an A-frame with an extension on wheels over a Genie lift. I feel infinitely safer on one. Once you get the hang of crawling over the top and locking your leg in, I fel very secure 35' in the air, as opposed to a Genie where you are swaying all over the place.



You my friend are a little bit crazy.


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## MarshallPope (Oct 29, 2014)

gafftaper said:


> You my friend are a little bit crazy.



Quite true.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 29, 2014)

It is for houselights and rowscof seats. Werner fg is around $850. Hard to find a scaffold with a deck around 18' ft for that and fit it between rows of fixed seats.


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## soundlight (Oct 29, 2014)

I actually quite like the ladders with the extension bit in the middle. Fiberglass more than wooden, but I used a very sturdy wooden one in college and quite liked it. We always sandbagged the bottom rungs ladder to keep it secure, just in case, but it didn't ever seem wobbly to me. I find myself very comfortable with swinging my leg up over the top and working up there. That being said, I was only working on an 18' one, I don't think I'd be at all interested in a 35' one. Anything over 20' I generally say scaff, lift, or I'm not going up. Extra tall extension ladders are not my thing.


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## SteveB (Oct 29, 2014)

Would use of an A frame with center extension, not then require the use of fall protection for the person climbing ?.

As opposed to a modern Genie, or equiv., with an enclosed bucket, that does not require such protection. 

I agree that the more modern Genie's with the interlocks, as opposed to the older design without interlocks yet whose outriggers extended further, sway all over the place. I hate going up more then 20 ft. in ours, yet it's rated for 33.


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## egilson1 (Oct 29, 2014)

To answer your question Bill, OHSA does NOT permit the climbing of the stick. I'll dig up the documentation in a day or so. 

Also as was discussed a few days ago in a separate post ladders on wheels is a big no no.


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## JonCarter (Oct 29, 2014)

Gotta go along with Marshall on this one. Spent many hours being rolled around "The Big Outdoor Theeter" at 20' or so on one of these, stringing cable through the trees. This was in the '50s & 60s; nobody ever heard of a thing called OSHA and we all lived through it. Yep, Marshall, we're both crazy.


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## Footer (Oct 29, 2014)

Here is the NYS code on the use of these:
_§ 23-5.16 Trestle and extension trestle ladder scaffolds.

(a) Permissible scaffold height. The elevation of working platforms of trestle and extension trestle ladder scaffolds shall not exceed 20 feet above the ground, grade, floor or equivalent surface.

(b) Bracing or tie-ins required. Where the working platform of any trestle ladder scaffold is located more than 10 feet above the ground, grade, floor or equivalent surface, the tops of such trestle or extension trestle ladders shall be tied in to the building or other structure. Such tie-ins shall be by means of rigid bracing, chains or ropes fastened securely to substantial, firm anchorages. Where such anchorages are unavailable or where such tie-ins are impossible and there is no adjacent wall, the bases of such trestle ladders shall be extended perpendicularly to the length of the working platform such distance as to provide a base dimension of not less than one-quarter of the height of the scaffold platform above such base.

(c) Scaffold platforms. Working platforms between trestles shall be equal to the width of the rungs of the extension. Where ladder type platforms are used, such platforms shall comply with the requirements listed in Table XIII of this Subpart.

(d) Limitations of use. Trestle and extension trestle ladder scaffolds shall be used only for interior painting, decorating, light maintenance or similar work. Such scaffolds shall not be used for exterior work nor for work in which the equipment, supplies or materials required may hamper or endanger the persons on such scaffolds._

Whatever way you cut it, your not going to hit that criteria. I also wonder how you will deal with the rake of the house. In our smaller room we have a scaffold that has extendable legs that get over the seats. The house is raked about 1.5' per row. I don't see the exact model we have on Werner's site, but it is out there. I have set these things up to replace houselights before, getting one up over seats is an exercise in pure frustration. 

Flat out, you can not buy a traditional A frame to do this. This industry does not use those ladder for their correct purpose. Either install a catwalk, buy a straddle for a genie lift, buy the correct scaffold, or buy and install lamps that can be changed with a pole and suction cup/grabber.


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## rphilip (Oct 29, 2014)

egilson1 said:


> To answer your question Bill, OHSA does NOT permit the climbing of the stick. I'll dig up the documentation in a day or so.



If it's not allowed to climb the "stick" what is it designed to be used for? If it's to put scaffold planks on how do you get onto those planks?

Philip


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## SteveB (Oct 30, 2014)

rphilip said:


> If it's not allowed to climb the "stick" what is it designed to be used for? If it's to put scaffold planks on how do you get onto those planks?
> 
> Philip



You can climb the stick if you have fall protection.


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## gafftaper (Oct 30, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> It is for houselights and rowscof seats. Werner fg is around $850. Hard to find a scaffold with a deck around 18' ft for that and fit it between rows of fixed seats.



You sure you can't fit a scaffold in between those rows? Three sections 6' high each, should cost about the same if not less than $850.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 30, 2014)

What wheels? I use to just "walk" them along an electric.

The general answers are what I suspected. I'm surprised Werner doesn't have more cautions as to restrictions on their site.

If a scaffold or platform, deck at 18' max. The 14' trestle top rung goes to 22' but seemed 21' was ideal for the traditional "straddle" position. Scaffolds that can straddle a row or more of seats - I.e.no bracing within 33 or 34" of floor - are rare. Crew who installed used a ladder and tied off to joists and crawled across room. I personally can't work from the top like that (let alone crawling across a joist).

A catwalk was of course the right answer but before I was involved, a lawyer thought carwalks were not safe, so the final design of the building's structure does not have the capacity to support one continuous batten for lights, let alone a catwalk. The cost of footings, columns, and a 70' spanning catwalk was over $100,000 in an under $1m project for everything inside the shell.


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## JChenault (Oct 30, 2014)

Bill

If it is for house lights sounds like an LED solution might make sense. Ie if I have to fix them every five to 10 years I could rent or set up scaffolding

If this is for FOH lighting, have you considered a bosuns chair such as the ones by Sapsis? ( they made a bosuns cage for our space that works well ).


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## BillConnerFASTC (Oct 30, 2014)

I've considered both, they can hire a company to relamp all 30 or souonce a year for under $1000. At around $1000 per LED house light p!us install and data, hard to justify. It was their choice, and they have not done year 1 relamping and have 5 out, so I thought the trestle ladder would be an option.

The only foh stage lighting are 6 S4 LED with intent of being a color front wash and one stopped working. (There are other quartz front lights that are accesible - just felt this best for angle was worth having.) 

Structural engineer said no to bosun chair load on structure. See above. Plus hard to get on and off and comply with OSHA - would need a scissor lift that was lowered after boarding bosun chair.

Genie AWP with straddle does not go close to wall, so not a comp!eye solution. Booms too heavy and expensive. I need to see if the Genie run about with the basket that extends extends far enough to get over seats - for foh - not house.

The trestle solve all conditions except being easy.

Will have to look at two devices but hardly place to store one and no money for much!ore then trestle ladder.


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## egilson1 (Dec 11, 2014)

So I was wrong.

I found a FAQ section on the Werner web page that addressed the specific topic of climbing the extension portion of the ladder. In the response to the question, they approve the ability to climb the extension as long as you do not go above the top 4 rungs. With this info in hand, I had a conversation with my local OSHA inspector yesterday about his opinion. He agreed that it was appropriate to climb the extension if you follow the guidelines of the manufacture.

One additional bit of info, if the extension is in the down position, with less than 2 rungs extending above the A-frame, you should treat the ladder like any other step ladder which means you can not use the top 2 rungs of the A-frame.

Hope this helps.

Ethan


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