# Dealing with complete A-holes?



## Anonymous067 (Oct 17, 2008)

This COULD be a very long story, but I'm just going to bite my tongue and keep it short.

Last weekend at our church we had a third-party skit team come in, completely unrelated to our church. Just doing a "show".

I was the "head honcho" for the night, along with two others. It was not my choice to have them come in.

First of all, they came a half hour late. This was significant when they were only going to have an hour to set up to begin with (due to our schedule, hour set up, Mass/service, half hour break, performance).

Well, without even getting a hello, their main guy walks in, and just starts barking orders at ME, and my co-honchos for the night. We all kinda glanced at each other like...umm....yeah....

They brought in their own sound board, and had their own wireless (which was good, cuz I didn't feel like hauling out ours), and he DEMANDED a channel on my console.

Their "tech guy" was supposedly this great perfect hot shot. He was terrible. Amateur mistakes, etc etc.

When I asked how long it was that I needed to record, their main dude said, "you can't, because we're royalty". I'm like...you gotta be kiddin me.

AND, at one point, he actually told ME to LEAVE. Something tells me this isn't exactly right. Nor did he help pick up any of the large tables I PERSONALLY carried in for HIM at HIS request....


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## waynehoskins (Oct 18, 2008)

They're all that great and their guy didn't even advance the show?

As I understand it, you're the house TD. He's in your venue. Unless it's in their contract, I don't believe there's any reason you couldn't power down the rig, lock it out, and go home.

But from the other guy's perspective, perhaps it was a bad day. Perhaps they ran into traffic or had a flat on the way, and were in a time crunch. Perhaps somebody on your end told them that you're all there to do whatever they want. Just giving them the benefit of the doubt.

But the way it sounds, this guy needs to be put in his place, and he needs it badly. "Sir, you must ask me for a channel on my console, and because of your unprofessional behavior tonight, no, you may not have one" would be my answer to the demand for a channel, especially in the heat of battle.

Advice: remember these guys. Document what happened and report it to whoever it reports to. If the group come through again, insist that the contract be worded to protect you from being mistreated like you (documentedly) were.

I've been on both ends in church and small theatre production. When I'm the house guy, I make an effort to advance with the road guy, and to treat him like I'd like to be treated when I'm the road guy. When I'm the road guy, I respect the house guy. In either case, I try to advance the gig as best I can.


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## Sony (Oct 18, 2008)

You got a lot more patience then me bro! I commend you, if it was really as bad as you make it out to be.

If it were me at MVPAC I would have told him not to boss me around in MY venue. Then if he didn't change his tune I would have told him to p*** off and get out and canceled his contract right then and there and kept the deposit.

I have no patience for people who think they are better then everyone else....I don't care if you're Queen Elizabeth II, you treat people with respect otherwise you don't get to do your show.


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## Hughesie (Oct 18, 2008)

Especially in an industry like this one where word of mouth and reputation gets you work.


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## jerekb (Oct 18, 2008)

At my school we had this keynote speaker a couple of years ago he came in barking orders asking for tedious stuff to be done. Me and my crew were like looking at each other like who does this guy think he is and then he was all cocky telling us how he was going to capture the kids respect and all. Well it started and about half way through I was in aw. This guy was unbelievable just amazing and we were just blown away. well anyways we ended up asking him to sign the wall in the booth. We felt kinda stupid. Not exactly the same situation but just be warned that some performers ar cocky for a reason i.e. there really good and they know it.


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## Anonymous067 (Oct 18, 2008)

Trust me, it was WORSE than I make it out to be. When I got home this night, I typed a six page email to my buddy (who also knows sound) about how horrible it was. Sadly, we did put him in his place two different times. He demanded something that was in the ground rules of the "contract" that wasn't going to get done if it meant his life....

I had a serious talk with the lady who booked him, and I also had a surveillance camera running when the performance was off to document all activities.

Now, I never said the skit we saw was BAD. It was actually quiet entertaining. That doesn't give anybody who's "good" to be arrogant or rude to others. Period.


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## mbandgeek (Oct 18, 2008)

I have been in one of those situations before with a touring dance company. I was a member of the lighting crew and i was focusing the lights as the house ME/TD was programming the show. We had a couple new guys also helping out for the show and we were intending on rotating out on the focus. The LD decided started out really trying to teach the new guys how to focus the lights but eventually got frustrated, and i was the one to focus all of the lights.

As the day went on, she got more and more demanding. I was focusing the lights for a long time, and i was focusing as fast as i could and she still wasn't happy.

I put her in her place by refusing to bend one of the gel frames. I told her that if she wanted to climb the ladder and bend it, she could go right ahead. I won that argument and she very sarcastically handed me a cardboard frame.

I did make one mistake be not locking down a lighting instrument before saying locked, which we don't lock down our instruments in the same manner as it was a one-off. She made a comment that she didn't hear my wrench hitting metal, i looked at the house TD and he gave me one of those "oh my god is she serious?" looks.

That night, while i was talking to the house TD, he told me that i should have thrown my wrench AT her. This is also when i told him about how she wanted me to bend the gel frames. That did not make the TD happy.

It turns out that this was the first tour for a LD that was fresh out of college, and i have heard since that she was fired after the tour. That made everyone on the lighting crew happy.


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## Ross (Oct 18, 2008)

One of my hats around my theater is Production Supervisor for Booked in Events, and this story brings so many experiences to mind. There are always going to be groups or individuals that know more about your job than you do, as well as know more about your inventory and more about your theatre, church, school, etc. I've actually been pushed to the point where I have refused followspot operators access to the catwalk, forced board ops to be replaced, and given no lighting other than a generic default cue all for behaving similarly to that. Granted, the opposite is true as well but we never seem to talk about them as much...


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## Anonymous067 (Oct 19, 2008)

Ross said:


> One of my hats around my theater is Production Supervisor for Booked in Events, and this story brings so many experiences to mind. There are always going to be groups or individuals that know more about your job than you do, as well as know more about your inventory and more about your theatre, church, school, etc. I've actually been pushed to the point where I have refused followspot operators access to the catwalk, forced board ops to be replaced, and given no lighting other than a generic default cue all for behaving similarly to that. Granted, the opposite is true as well but we never seem to talk about them as much...



Okay....that's a bit confusing.
Are you saying that this gentleman had a right to come in my space and push me around? And saying that he actually did know more about the system I work with on a daily basis, as opposed to him, where he hasn't ever been in there before?


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## waynehoskins (Oct 19, 2008)

Blah067 said:


> Okay....that's a bit confusing.
> Are you saying that this gentleman had a right to come in my space and push me around? And saying that he actually did know more about the system I work with on a daily basis, as opposed to him, where he hasn't ever been in there before?



I think he was saying that part tongue-in-cheek.

Some guys think they know everything about everything: your space, your inventory, your job (and of course your job is to so whatever they want you to).


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## Eboy87 (Oct 19, 2008)

In a sense, yes, he does have the right to come in and tell you what to do. Yes, he could've been nicer about it, but as the de-facto "headliner," his needs get met first. I've had plenty of long days just like you described with such prima donnas, but that's just the nature of this industry. He also has the right to tell you to stop recording. I never record a show I'm working on for this very reason. Most of the time it's in the contract that recording/photography/videotaping the event is prohibited. 

Since you were the provider for this one, it's still your system. You could pull the plug if you want, but it might also kill your career (that's not to say you can't drag your feet a bit and make it harder for him ) You just have to learn patience. I believe soundlight posted this wonderful bit of wisdom on here for situations like this. 

1. Picture yourself lying on your belly on a warm rock that hangs out over a crystal clear stream.
2. You can feel your hands dangling in the cool running water.
3. Birds are singing in the wonderful mountain air.
4. No one but you knows your secret place.
5. You're in total seclusion from that rat race called "The World."
6. The soothing sound of a gentle waterfall fills the air with a cascade of serenity.
7. The water is so crystal clear that you can easily make out the face of the person you're holding underwater.


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## zuixro (Oct 19, 2008)

Wow that sounds like a pretty sucky day...

I was doing fog for a show last summer, and I had someone who claimed to be the stage manager, but was actually more of a dresser, order me to allow her children to press the buttons on the fog machine. I told her that I had it covered, two of the remotes were in one spot, and the other one was only used once in the show. She told me that I had to let her children do it, and that I couldn't leave anyone out. I kind of just ignored her.


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## Footer (Oct 19, 2008)

I assume this group was being paid to be there, so they had to put on the best show possible. I have both seen and done the same thing that guy did. I have seen road crews go as far as telling the local crew to go sit in the house, they'll take it from here. This guy was trying to get his show up, its your job to also make it happen.

As far as the recording thing goes, he was not saying he is Royalty, he was saying this show HAS royalties. 
Royalties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Don't ever play the "I am locking up and going home" routine. That makes you sound like your six. '

I would also like to know how he "Demanded" the channel. Odds are he said here, hook this up to your console, I need an input, send it to your ____.

Some people are harder to work with then others. You also have to put yourself in his shoes. This guy is going to different venues all the time. If he is in the church circuit he is usually working with volunteers with very little experience. He probably has the "the crew knows nothing until they change my mind" attitude. 

Its your job to make sure that the road crew is happy. I know it can be hard, but its your job to help them out.

Someone higher up then you wanted this show to come in, you don't want to be the person that stands in their way, do you?


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## Anonymous067 (Oct 19, 2008)

Footer said:


> I would also like to know how he "Demanded" the channel. Odds are he said here, hook this up to your console, I need an input, send it to your ____.



Myself and the other two leads were standing in a circle talking, and his tech walked up, and the main guy said "Where is your board? I NEED to patch into your board right now!"

Thats pretty demanding in my book.


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## Eboy87 (Oct 19, 2008)

Blah067 said:


> Myself and the other two leads were standing in a circle talking, and his tech walked up, and the main guy said "Where is your board? I NEED to patch into your board right now!"
> 
> Thats pretty demanding in my book.



Not really, sounds standard to me. Perhaps he had an urgent appointment with the water closet that he was late for?


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## Footer (Oct 19, 2008)

Blah067 said:


> Myself and the other two leads were standing in a circle talking, and his tech walked up, and the main guy said "Where is your board? I NEED to patch into your board right now!"
> 
> Thats pretty demanding in my book.



Sounds to me you should not have been standing around talking and been by the console or helping the guy setup. Whenever I see a group of people standing around talking when I am doing actual work I make it my personal goal to find those people something to do. No one should be standing around until everyone is standing around.


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## waynehoskins (Oct 19, 2008)

Blah067 said:


> Myself and the other two leads were standing in a circle talking, and his tech walked up, and the main guy said "Where is your board? I NEED to patch into your board right now!"
> 
> Thats pretty demanding in my book.



Wait, hold on a minute. Especially if the emphasis on "need" is yours and not his, I agree, that sounds pretty normal to me too.

I grow increasingly confused, and less convinced that this guy stepped as far over the line as it sounded at first. It doesn't help that many "church sound people" only know how to make a microphone for talking turn on, so he's used to nobody knowing the difference between an XLR and an NL8.

Putting the rubber band on the other claw, you didn't advance with them either?

Addition, echoing Footer's comment: standing in a circle talking? If you're taking up space and not doing anything productive, you're in the way of someone who is.


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## Sayen (Oct 19, 2008)

One easy solution for the future is to write a document/technical rider that outside groups need to sign prior to rentals/performances. I used to have problems like this at the school, and haven't had nearly this sort of attitude now that people have to sign a document admitting they know I am in charge and specifying in advance what equipment I will provide and what equipment they will be bringing in, including equipment hookups. Keep it short enough to email and fax, and require it in advance.

Were you paid for the gig? When it's all said and done, even the most annoying rental gets myself and my crew paid, and there are worse jobs than standing around for half an hour doing nothing. Often I just bite my tongue and take notes for things to add to my rider.


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## TOG (Oct 20, 2008)

jerekb said:


> At my school we had this keynote speaker a couple of years ago he came in barking orders asking for tedious stuff to be done. Me and my crew were like looking at each other like who does this guy think he is and then he was all cocky telling us how he was going to capture the kids respect and all. Well it started and about half way through I was in aw. This guy was unbelievable just amazing and we were just blown away. well anyways we ended up asking him to sign the wall in the booth. We felt kinda stupid. Not exactly the same situation but just be warned that some performers ar cocky for a reason i.e. there really good and they know it.




Ever watch the Cesar Milan? I think you got yourself Dog Whispered.


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## Anonymous067 (Oct 21, 2008)

Footer said:


> Sounds to me you should not have been standing around talking and been by the console or helping the guy setup. Whenever I see a group of people standing around talking when I am doing actual work I make it my personal goal to find those people something to do. No one should be standing around until everyone is standing around.



As we were talking (with the main guy regarding schedule for the night), their tech guy walked in for the first time. He asked who the tech person was, and I raised my hand and immediately led him to the board, and during the walk, he DEMANDED his channel. He also "demanded" as he walked up, like I said, he had not yet entered the building at that point.


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## Anonymous067 (Oct 21, 2008)

waynehoskins said:


> Wait, hold on a minute. Especially if the emphasis on "need" is yours and not his, I agree, that sounds pretty normal to me too.
> 
> I grow increasingly confused, and less convinced that this guy stepped as far over the line as it sounded at first. It doesn't help that many "church sound people" only know how to make a microphone for talking turn on, so he's used to nobody knowing the difference between an XLR and an NL8.
> 
> ...



Again, I was talking to the main guy about the schedule for the night when the tech guy burst in from outside and demanded things. He was not in the building prior to my making contact with him.

I was called three days prior, and told they were to be there at 3:15 (only to have THEM show up late), and because I'm the main tech, I was told to show up to help.

For the record, I know more than most church techs, I run gigs regularly outside church.


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## Van (Oct 21, 2008)

Blah067 said:


> Again, I was talking to the main guy about the schedule for the night when the tech guy burst in from outside and demanded things. He was not in the building prior to my making contact with him.
> 
> I was called three days prior, and told they were to be there at 3:15 (only to have THEM show up late), and because I'm the main tech, I was told to show up to help.
> 
> For the record, I know more than most church techs, I run gigs regularly outside church.


 
Chill folks. I think there is a lot to be learned on both sides of this issue. Blah, the guy, or any of us has no way to know what you know and what you don't know. Having toured many a show through many a crappy venue I can tell you, at times you do feel like walking in telling the house crew to get the hell out of the way and just getting it done. Since this is a "What Went Wrong" post and not a "Punching Bag" post you are going to get folks who are going to tell you, from their perspective, what went wrong. Now I hate to play the Kowtowing house servant as much as the next guy, but hwen somebody pays you a butt ton of money to do a gig in your space, they are doing you a favor, not vice versa. It is your responsibility to do everything in your power to make them happy as a freakin' clam, then you get to ***** about it here, and make sure nobody you know ever books the SOB again. It may sound cliche' but when you are on the gig you are on the gig, If Life or Liberty is not in danger then your Pursuit of Happiness doesn't count either. Now if these guys were doing dangerous things, using your facility improperly, or making demands outside the norm, then you have a right to "check into things", but he could've said," Hey, A-hole, Plug this in your POS you call your FOH and give it to me hot!" and your response should hae been Yessir! He gets no points for being a Prick, but you don't get any either when your immediate response is to close your board and go home. His actions may have been unprofessional, the best way to counter that is to be as Professional as possible in response. It ain't easy, specially with a temper like mine, but it is what seperates the Pros from the Joes.


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## ReiRei (Oct 27, 2008)

I have to agree with Van. No matter how big of a jerk and how disrespectful someone is to you, always treat them with respect. Especially if they're paying you money, if they're paying you with sparkly shells then have at them. Believe me though, I know how hard it is to do that. I'm one of the most hot-headed and short-tempered people at my theatre. But I've only ever snapped once at a show because an actor decided to call my crew some names and I pulled her to the side and gave her what for... Don't follow my example though because I wasn't being paid, I was tired, frustrated, and she had personally attacked my crew. And it's not cool to yell at actors...

But if you backtalk a paying client person, or anybody for that matter, it'll come back to get you. People talk about you and your venue. And then no one will want to book at your church. Or they'll find they're going to be working with you and they're like, "OH GOD! NOT THAT JERK-FACE!" (not that I'm saying your a jerk-face) Then everything will be unpleasant. It's just better to be respectful and don't take anything as a personal attack. The people booking your venues are just as stressed as you are most of the time and though some of them are just genuine idiots, some don't realize they're doing it.


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## Eboy87 (Oct 30, 2008)

ReiRei's post made me think of this. 

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I cannot accept,
and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had
to kill today because they pissed me off.

And also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on
today as they may be connected to the ass that I may have
to kiss tomorrow.

The SM on a particular show I did had it posted above her table.


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## Anonymous067 (Nov 16, 2008)

Eboy87 said:


> And also, help me to be careful of the toes I step on
> today as they may be connected to the ass that I may have
> to kiss tomorrow.



so true...i love it.


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## TimOlson (Nov 17, 2008)

not knowing your position, it's hard to give any solid advice. go with what you believe to be right, and get help if you feel you're in over your head. there's usually a minister in charge of these events - take that person aside, share your story, and go from there. 

Unfortunately we all run into real jerks sometimes. The one thing that is most important here is to be in control of yourself. if you are normally a smiling happy person, will you allow someone who's a complete jerk to change YOU? will you allow yourself to immediately begin playing in their dark and horrible world? Absolutely not. be polite, be firm, but always stand for what YOU are, and how things are going to be conducted in your venue / house of worship.

peace, Tim O


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## Pie4Weebl (Nov 18, 2008)

As the house LD at a unloved outdoor venue with a not so amazing light rig that plays host to many c and d grade touring bands, (With a b or two tossed in there) I get to deal with my share of amature, demanding, and hungover LDs and the only thing you can do is grin it and bear. I've had LDs who have made me program a show for them to run on the rig, because they didn't know how to use the board or my favorite excuse "I partied too hard last night." I've had LD's get mad at me because a case of cross rented gear was bad when I got it and didn't work, or because I refused to fly in a truss (lets ignore that it was dead hung) and you just gotta be cool and do what they want. Better to be remembered as "that house guy who helped me out on that bad day" than 
the difficult one".


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## maccalder (Nov 18, 2008)

All I can say is welcome to the real world.

Whether in theatres, churches, cruise ships or corporate, you get these sorts of people.

Now you say as you walked him to the console, he told you that he NEEDED a channel - to me, that sounds reasonable - in fact he had probably mentioned that when he booked the venue (ie "Due to the short setup time, we would like to use your PA, so we will send you a channel and go through your desk" - a very standard request with guest acts, and a lot better than "Due to the short setup time, we would like to use your PA, so we will patch it across during the interval") - so all he was doing was briefing you.

As others have mentioned, the guy may have been stressed - judging by the fact that he came in late, and the first thing he did was approach you, I would say that there is a very good chance that he has had hours of stress before entering the venue. Sure, he should have aimed to be polite, but let's face it, he was under the hammer. 

As for their tech being "Amateur" - who knows, he could have also been under the nail and frustrated, causing his concentration to slip. You cannot base your assessment of skill based on a single opportunity.

The royalty thing was explained - basically they make money selling their media - allowing you to record it would be shooting themselves in the foot, because you could easily put the material onto youtube or sell it to your congregation and they will not see a dime.

Under what circumstance did they ask you to leave the room? was it during the performance or during the setup? If it was during the setup, were you getting in their way at all, or in any way being obstructive? Because by the sounds of it, you were pretty annoyed, and when people get annoyed other people notice the attitude, and tend to not like being around it.

As to the tables... Did you ask if he could assist you? When I come in and manage a guest act (on the rare occasion), if I ask for tables, and the crew says "Sure" then go and get some, I am going to assume they can handle them. If the crew is in a bad mood, I am not going to approach and offer assistance, lest it be thrown back in my face. Especially as there were other people there with you.

I have only done 4 or 5 shows in churches, but I have done a fair few corporate events in odd places... anyway, most of the time when I walk into a venue, and am introduced to the "Guy who does all the AV for us" in a venue like a church, unless it is Hillsong - ie there is a clear technical presence, I assume they know the basics like "I push this up and the mic gets louder". It is a fair assumption. I also assume that only one of the people knows said basics, the others may be able to figure it out if he is sick. If I work off of those assumptions when I ask for crew and plan accordingly, then I will not be in the lurch when I get there. So here is how a quick setup is done. I enter the venue, walk up to the clump of people, ask who the head tech is. He steps forward, I introduce myself, I ask to see whatever piece of infrastructure I need to integrate with. On the way there, I brief the technician on what I will need from them and what we are supplying so that if there is anything that they cannot supply, I know from the offset and can order it. Once I am shown what I need to see, hopefully the guys have loaded everything into the venue and have started setting up on stage. I don't expect or want them to have talked to the in house crew, I want to see progress on stage. Now hopefully the House Crew are being briefed by the head tech, and will start to get together everything I need from them. After it is clear that my FOH tech and lighting tech (and video tech) have briefed my crew on stage setup I then grab those two/three , introduce them to the head tech and ask them to sort out all the patching etc - the head tech will either manage that himself, or introduce my guys to his guys, and so it keeps going. If I need anything at all, I will go up to the head tech and say "Do you have x of the xyz's available, if so can we have them?", the response is either "Yes", "No", "Yes but there will be an additional charge" or "Yes, can you please give me a hand in carrying them".

It is a pretty stock standard recipe, and I have been on both ends of it. When someones in a grind and time is an issue (when isn't it) then often the niceties are the first to go. It's a high pressure industry, so expect it, aim not to do it yourself and just go about your job.


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