# Working at Heights Practices



## MNicolai

In our theatre, we have a few different applications, none of which necessarily require the use of a harness, although a harness is suggested. Specifically, our FOH catwalk and scissor lift use.

As per the suggestion of an ETCP rigger we contracted in to perform some work for us, we purchased a fall arrest harness. So far I've been the only one to use it on a handful of occasions. Only once would I have not performed worked without it, the other times being applications where I would've felt safe on our catwalk with the harness being more a formality and example to students walking around the venue than anything else.

The problem I have is that we have no procedure in place for someone who has fallen while wearing a harness. Given the locations a harness is used, people can readily access the positions a harness would be secured to, and could possibly pull a person up. Still, dead-lifting someone 15', possibly unconscious, and then having pull them through the railings of the catwalk is not ideal. Conversely, I wouldn't want our solution to be to simply tie a rope to the end of the lanyard and then have a team of EMS personnel lower the victim to ground level. That's putting a lot of faith in responders' physical capabilities. Aside from that, there's only so much time a person can be in a harness, dangling from a structure before they have severe complications.

So what's the next action I should pursue on formulating a response plan for someone having fallen? Bearing in mind that we fall into a gap that leaves us with only a couple people who would ever use the harness and rather than deal with the complications of what-if's, would rather not a wear a harness but still lean out over the catwalk railings to put gels in the fixtures, replace lens tubes, and such forth.

I certainly want to coordinate with the fire department, but don't want to rely on them for advised working at heights practices.

Is this an OSHA thing or will a well-rounded ETCP rigger suffice for telling us how we're doing it wrong?


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## cprted

I would get a workplace safety consultant to come in and help you out. They will know all the applicable OHS regs inside and out. In my area, a rescue plan is a required element of fall protection. There are self-retracting lanyards that have a self-rescue feature built-in. They're pretty snazzy and could be a good solution depending on your situation. Also, if you're working on a catwalk, a fall restraint system may be a good option. These are the things you can talk about with a consultant.

How is it that you need to rescue someone dangling 15' below the catwalk? In my area, the maximum free fall distance allowed in a fall arrest system is 6.5' with a shock absorbing lanyard or 4' without a shock absorbing lanyard.


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## MNicolai

cprted said:


> How is it that you need to rescue someone dangling 15' below the catwalk? In my area, the maximum free fall distance allowed in a fall arrest system is 6.5' with a shock absorbing lanyard or 4' without a shock absorbing lanyard.



I used my PeakWorks iPhone app for a semi-realistic distance. A 6' lanyard, anchor height roughly the same height as my D-ring, gives 6' for the lanyard length, 3.5' for the deceleration, and 2.5' for harness stretch, plus another 3' for safety. My actual lanyard might be shorter but I haven't measured it. Basically, I pulled a number out of a just-about thin air for the sake of argument with little intent for it to be completely accurate to the specific harness we own.

(actually, I pulled the number out of thin air and _then_ found that PeakWorks gave the same number by sheer coincidence -- it was for the sake of discussion and not meant to be any carefully conceived number)


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## derekleffew

Mike,
In addition to the response plan, it appears you are ignoring (or at least haven't mentioned) a very significant component of the ANSI Z359 Fall Protection Code. See also OSHA 1926.500 .


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## MNicolai

derekleffew said:


> Mike,
> In addition to the response plan, it appears you are ignoring (or at least haven't mentioned) a very significant component of the ANSI Z359 Fall Protection Code. See also OSHA 1926.500 .



I don't doubt this. An ETCP-certified rigger told my boss we should have a harness, and now we have a harness. That's the full extent to which owning a harness has been thought out, and that's why I'm raising this issue in the first place. Simply owning the harness doesn't make anyone safer, but because this last weekend was the first time I've used it in several months, that time being the first time I had used it ever, it's been effectively a non-issue. It exists but has been ignored. It's there if an insurance provider or OSHA inspector asks questions or if we want to set a semi-decent example for students. I deny none of this.

Care to elaborate on which parts of these documents I've not mentioned and have probably ignored? -- both of which are documents I've not actually read before (because an ETCP rigger said, "You should own a harness," listed a couple ways we could use it, and didn't ever care to further elaborate on the responsibilities of using a fall protection system).

I'm going to stress the ETCP part, because I feel in this scenario, the certification and hiring of certified persons has failed me, a member of the industry, but I digress.


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## derekleffew

From Sapsis Rigging Fall Protection Systems :

> *If you have an existing structure we will:*
> # Inspect the facility and identify all areas where fall arrest solutions are needed.
> # Submit a proposal detailing requirements for a Fall Arrest system, (correcting violations, upgrading your current system or installation of a new system)
> # Develop an inspection and maintenance regimen for your System that will assist your facility in becoming OSHA compliant.
> # Train employees in the inspection and use of the Fall Arrest system.
> # Develop a rescue plan for all areas of your System.
> # Act as a liaison between you and your local authorities concerning a Fall Arrest Rescue Plan.



It appears you/the facility/your rigger have attempted to condense the above down to "purchase a harness," and are now working on "develop a rescue plan." I would agree that you received bad or incomplete advice, but being an ETCP-Certified Rigger makes one no more an expert in the area of Fall Protection than being an ETCP-Certified Entertainment Electrician makes one an Electrical Engineer.

Any fool with a credit card can purchase a harness, but I would argue that without proper training and understanding of the complete system, he _may_ be more dangerous than one who doesn't have a harness at all.

For starters, WHAT are you clipping that shock-absorbing lanyard to? The 1.5" fixture mounting pipe? An I-beam? Unistrut? How do you KNOW the attachment point meets the 5000# capacity as specified in Z359?

See this PDF for more: http://www.millerfallprotection.com/pdfs/ANSI-Z359Standard/Understanding ANSI Z359.pdf .


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## MNicolai

I clip to the square tubing used to create the rails. It's at least 2" tubing, with welds to the super structure every 8' or so horizontally along the catwalk, plus a greater density of vertical uprights along the railing. No one's tested it for 5000# point loads, but it's certainly not just the fixture mounting pipe.


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## cprted

MNicolai said:


> I clip to the square tubing used to create the rails. It's at least 2" tubing, with welds to the super structure every 8' or so horizontally along the catwalk, plus a greater density of vertical uprights along the railing. No one's tested it for 5000# point loads, but it's certainly not just the fixture mounting pipe.


Here's the thing, under my OHS regs, a gaurdrail system only needs to be rated to withstand a 1500 lbs force, you need 5000 for a tie-off point. Think of it this way, would you be comfortable suspending your brand new Ford F-350 from that railing? If not, you shouldn't be tying off to it.


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## MNicolai

From what I've been reading more appropriately I don't know that we need a fall arrest system but rather a fall restraint system.

Back to the original question: How do I find someone qualified enough in fall protection systems to provide the proper services we would need? From the sounds of it an ETCP rigger doesn't necessarily fit the bill, which is where my first instinct would've been to go to on this subject.


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## SteveB

A very timely subject as I pondered fall restraint/arrest while in my JLG at +20 ft last Friday. As I rolled along (self powered lift) I felt the need to be in a harness. Note that the existing rail system does it's job of keeping me in the bucket, but I felt vulnerable. I don't feel vulnerable at 15ft., but the OSHA rule says I need a harness.

Interesting thing though, the very first page on the OSHA website states that State and Local governments are not under OSHA jurisdiction and I'm a State of NY employee and in a State building. So the next question is does our college abide by OSHA reg's ?. I'll call Tuesday.

Then I still want a harness. A poll of my 3 electricians that focus for me in the JLG says that none of them have ever used a harness in a Genie/JLG bucket at any other place of work, so maybe 10 other NYC area theaters that don't know the rule. All of these folks question as well the wisdom of clipping in to a bucket that might tip, but that's the OSHA rule. 

So a call to Sapsis is in order, then I have to determine WHERE on my JLG we are supposed to clip. Does it have a rated attachment point ?. Rated to 5,000 lbs according to what I'm reading here ?. Good question. 

Good timing on this post as well.


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## MNicolai

Those thoughts are where I believe a fall restraint system is what is actually practical. A fall arrest system does little good in a lift unless you're performing work adjacent to a structure that you can secure an anchorage point to. In theatre, that's rarely an option.

If you fall over the railing, you're ensuring that not only will you bring the lift down with you, but that after you've hit the ground as the lift tips over, that it will indeed crush you.

On my catwalk, I don't see any reason for a fall arrest system because what we need is not a system that allows us to fall over an edge we fully intend to lean over, but instead need something that will only let us lean over enough to comfortably drop a gel into the end of a fixture but absolutely no further. 

A person shouldn't be capable of falling in the first place for these applications.

But it's never been easy get an answer out of anyone when it comes to these questions, so I'm left to educated guessing. Riggers, contractors, and everyone else I've asked have always given different non-answers about harnesses in lifts, or at the very most, answers that were unsatisfactory.

To most, a harness is a harness is a harness, and that's where the conversation ends.


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## Footer

As far as who to call....
Sapsis does this as well as many other rigging companies. They have the engineers to do load studies on your facility and decide what you need. Also, nearly any iron/steel erection company should be able to get you a good system. This is a very common thing in general industry and what we do is not really that different from the catwalks and steel that exist in general industry.


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## derekleffew

SteveB said:


> ...then I have to determine WHERE on my JLG we are supposed to clip. Does it have a rated attachment point ?. ...





In the case of lifts, the purpose of a lanyard is for fall restraint--to prevent you from doing something stupid (climbing out of the basket), rather than fall arrest (slow you down and not let you hit the floor). The 5000# rating is not applicable.


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## Van

derekleffew said:


> View attachment 3950
> 
> In the case of lifts, the purpose of a lanyard is for fall restraint--to prevent you from doing something stupid (climbing out of the basket), rather than fall arrest (slow you down and not let you hit the floor). The 5000# rating is not applicable.


All man lifts, manufactured in recent history have a rated, suitable attachment point for a lanyard. It is, typically, a clearly marked 'U-bolt' screwed through one of the main structural beams of the cage. 
The return question should be, " Why am I operating a man lift when I don't know this? and why haven't I been properly trained ? "


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## MNicolai

The answer to your return question is unfortunately simple. General use of a scissor lift doesn't require use of a harness. You aren't required to wear a harness until you start reaching over the railings and standing on them. Therefore, proper training (at least around here) tends to not talk about harnesses. When the lift rental company comes in to give their safety spiel, it focuses more on not using lifts on sloped surfaces, outdoors on windy days, and basic movement operations as well as how to manually lower the basket in the event of a failure of some kind. After you've gone up, driven around a little bit, and come back down, they give you a card saying you've completed their training without doing something incredibly stupid.


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## SteveB

And as follow up to my question about OSHA and the State of New York, I was told today by our campus health and safety officer that the State of New York has adopted all OSHA regulations to "cover all public employees" employees and that they are enforced by the NY State Dept.of Labor. I read this to mean City of NY as well as every municipality in the State. Only other person I can think this affect is Mrs. Footer when she works at the Egg in Albany and possibly Kyle, who might have mentioned his facility is owned by the City of Saratoga ?.


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## Van

MNicolai said:


> The answer to your return question is unfortunately simple. General use of a scissor lift doesn't require use of a harness. You aren't required to wear a harness until you start reaching over the railings and standing on them. Therefore, proper training (at least around here) tends to not talk about harnesses. When the lift rental company comes in to give their safety spiel, it focuses more on not using lifts on sloped surfaces, outdoors on windy days, and basic movement operations as well as how to manually lower the basket in the event of a failure of some kind. After you've gone up, driven around a little bit, and come back down, they give you a card saying you've completed their training without doing something incredibly stupid.


 
Actually that's not the right answer or rather not the one I was looking for. When you recieve training for the operation of a man lift it should include any and all situations. If your training does not include the demonstration of the location of the lanyard attachment device then your training is by definition, Incomplete. Also, Perhaps your 'General use of a scissor lift..." doesn't require the use of a harness, but in many places the first thing you do is clip in and the last thing you do is un-clip, or you go home.


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## SteveB

Van said:


> When you recieve training for the operation of a man lift it should include any and all situations. If your training does not include the demonstration of the location of the lanyard attachment device then your training is by definition, Incomplete. .



Well no, this is not the case. The equipment manufacturer can show you that there is an attachment point, but they are not showing you how to use it. Use of a harness and lanyard is only required by OSHA in certain circumstances. Many state and local municipalities do not follow OSHA regulations and are not required to, thus a training session on a Genie, given to government employees, may well be "complete" as to the operation of the equipment, while not taking into account any "other" regulations that may or may not apply. Operation of the counterweight fly system, may well train you on how to safely load counterweights, but will not teach you, nor should it, that wearing fall protection is required. Likewise, operation of an ETC dimming system, is not going to teach you how to safely follow the local electrical codes.


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## Footer

SteveB said:


> Only other person I can think this affect is Mrs. Footer when she works at the Egg in Albany and possibly Kyle, who might have mentioned his facility is owned by the City of Saratoga ?.



Both my space and Mrs.Footer's space are state owned. We each work for non-profits that operate inside the state facilitys. At The Egg, the state (Office of General Services) is responsible for all gear inside the building, including lifts and fall arrest. However, no one at the Egg is a state employee so standard OSHA regs apply. Same goes for my space. 

When I was down in a local one venue a few months ago, they had many of these type of things the stagehand call board:Theatrical Stage Employees | Local One | IATSE. Might be worth a read. Then again, they also had a memorandum posted saying what safe operation of a genie type lift was that was ignored by the house crew.


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## mstaylor

Whether you fall under OSHA regs or not, the training should be the same. Normal use of a scissor lift does not require a harness but most scissor lifts have the ability to lay the hand rails down. At that point a harness is required. A vertical lift is the same as far as no harness. The thing I never understood is the welded rigging point is attached to the hand rail in many lifts but the hand rail isn't allowed to be used. 
As far as a harness on a catwalk, don't know without seeing it but I can'timagine it would help all that much. If needed, probably a horizontal lifline would be the ticket but a safety inspector is the one to tell you. He can also help you develope a rescue plan. 
A rigger saying you need a belt and then offering no direction in it's use or even saying that you need training in the use is very irresponsible. 
Never ever work in any lift and attach to a building tie-off. That is a perfect way to end up hanging with no lift under you and no way for anyone to rescue you.


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## Anvilx

mstaylor said:


> Never ever work in any lift and attach to a building tie-off. That is a perfect way to end up hanging with no lift under you and no way for anyone to rescue you.


 
That seems backwards to me, I should rather fall and likely hurt myself than hang around for a few hours while someone figured out how to get me down?

I suppose that depends on the space...


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## derekleffew

Anvilx said:


> ... than hang around for a few hours while someone figured out how to get me down?
> I suppose that depends on the space...


It has nothing to do with the space. Google "suspension trauma" and/or "harness hang syndrome". If you've been "hanging around" for a few hours, they'll be calling the coroner.


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## mstaylor

derekleffew said:


> It has nothing to do with the space. Google "suspension trauma" and/or "harness hang syndrome". If you've been "hanging around" for a few hours, they'll be calling the coroner.


 
You are exactly right, I believe 14 minutes is the time for an unconcious person to die in a harness. If you attach to a building point and the lift falls out from under you, many times you nowhere near a catwalk or any way of getting close to you by climbing. Then the only object that reaches that area is not down and out of service. At that point even rescue personel is going to have figure a new means of even getting to you. 
Now sometimes OSHA gets a little silly with requests. I was on a construction site a couple of years ago and the 85ft lift was beside a lagoon. The inspector wanted me to wear a vest and a harness. First the water was five feet at the deepest, then he wanted me to wear something that was going to tie me to the machine but put a flotation device that would pop me up. I explained that the two could not coexist, he finally saw the light. 
The long and short of it is telling somebody to buy safety gear but then they have no training can make it more dangerous than not having one at all.It is funny that I am as safety concious as I am because I am an old school tech that grew up with no safety devices. I walked trusses with nothing, climbed all kind of crazy things and done other things that are absolutely not allowed these days. Today I am a huge advocate of safety, including being properly trained to use mmechanical platforms. 
I work in a state that OSHA doesn't cover gov't employees but why wouldn't you still teach all the aspects of safety in a lift, even if you aren't required to use them. That way a person has the option to use the measures if they wish. If they don't know about the options they will be inherently less safe.


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## cprted

On the topic of suspension trauma, my local safety supplier has a "Suspension Trauma Safety Strap" that can be added to your harness. Basically the strap will allow you to stand up and relieve the pressure while you're dangling in the air waiting for rescue which greatly increases the amount of time you have before trauma sets in. While I never intend to take a tumble in my harness, this seemed like a smart $20 to spend.

The deployed strap:


Normally it is wrapped up in two small pouches completely out of the way.

On a somewhat related note, are arena high riggers required to wear hardhats in your jurisdiction?


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## Footer

cprted said:


> On the topic of suspension trauma, my local safety supplier has a "Suspension Trauma Safety Strap" that can be added to your harness. Basically the strap will allow you to stand up and relieve the pressure while you're dangling in the air waiting for rescue which greatly increases the amount of time you have before trauma sets in. While I never intend to take a tumble in my harness, this seemed like a smart $20 to spend.
> 
> The deployed strap:
> 
> Normally it is wrapped up in two small pouches completely out of the way.
> 
> On a somewhat related note, are arena high riggers required to wear hardhats in your jurisdiction?



Hardhats are great but are rarely seen if ever onstage in the states. In fact, the only time I have seen hard hats used in an entertainment situation is on the in of a Cirque arena show. Even then, only the road crew wore hard hats (actually climbing helmets). Nothing was even mentioned to the house crew about it. 

As far as the safety strap goes.... that is great as long as you are still conscious and red liquid is not pouring out of your body. If your venue thinks it can not rescue you before suspension trauma sets in, you might as well just pick out a headstone before you go up to the steel. Its a great thing to have, but it really should not be required. You should be down on the deck way before the thought of suspension trauma comes into play. The odds of falling and being un-injured are slim at best. Your going to hit your head on the way down. Added to that, your going to have some injuries from the harness and the fall arrest.


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## skienblack

I use a fall arrest harness a couple times a month to service our revolutions which are over our house. I know if I fell and was arrested by the harness I would not be happy and most likely injured. Out of curiosity has anyone here fallen in a harness and could talk about this experience?


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## mstaylor

Up riggers do not need to wear hardhats, there is nothing to protect from. It is the same as a roofer on a construction site, he is above the action. I have seen companies like Disney and Troika carry bump caps for certain buildings. My building is an example, we have a drop ceiling in the arena and from time to time a tile will fall because we are trying to pull them from above the grid. A ceiling tile from 45 ft is not good.


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## Dionysus

Just for the sake of a different perspective I work as an electrician (construction) along with working in theatre doing lighting/sound/rigging/etc. And not only that but I work and live in Canada, not the USA.

For the most-part I find that the general rules between the US and Canada are the same, if not very similar. In some cases the wording is a bit different, and in others things differ much more noticeably. This is the same with electrical codes, building codes (much more of Canada has to deal with more of a snow-load than much of the US for example.).

Here when working on a catwalk with adequate guard rails (particular heights, ratings, blah, blah...) you do not need a harness or further fall-restraint devices. This is unless you start reaching out, standing not on the catwalk floor, or putting your body between the rails... or if you are expected to be doing any of these things. Then you need further fall restraint. While the letter of the law says all that is required is a fall restraint belt and rope (while adequately designed) most often you will find people insisting on a harness and arresting lanyard. This is the exact same with vertical 'scissor' lifts and scaffolding (under various circumstances).
However often people do not tie-off in these circumstances to an anchorage point designed for fall arrest. However technically in violation of the law, this is generally accepted even my ministry of labour inspectors.
Here YOU cannot decide that a point is actually rated or not for fall arrest, the 5000# rule-of-thumb is frowned upon. You are supposed to have an engineering firm ensure that a particular anchorage point can be used for fall arrest. The only exception is pre-engineered devices/points when installed to the manufacturer's directions.
However in the past I have seen many times when even with pre-engineered devices I would not like the structure supporting it to take the force of an arrested fall.

The guideline is that any worker who has had an arrested fall must be rescued in no more than 30 minutes. A written plan must (however usually is not, except in theaters and the sort. Never seen one for most sites I've been on) be created with an action plan on how a worker is to be rescued in the event of a fall. Often this is delegated to the fire department. However some places like Canada's Wonderland (amusement park) have a high-angle rescue team.

I have to say even though 99% of the time someone who is in a lift is wearing a harness (often improperly), they are connected to an arresting lanyard, to something that is not meant to take an arresting load. I would not like to see someone arrested from a fully extended scissor lift. And here you MUST be tied off in a lift whenever you are above 10' from ground level, not just when leaning out of the lift.

I know a bit of a rant. But meah, I haven't posted much in a long time.


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## jwl868

A couple of New York OHS links:

OSHA’s State Summary:
New York State Plan Information

NY State Department of Labor
New York State Department of Labor - DOSH PESH


And it would be worth looking into New York City laws and regulations.


Joe


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## ruinexplorer

Footer said:


> Hardhats are great but are rarely seen if ever onstage in the states. In fact, the only time I have seen hard hats used in an entertainment situation is on the in of a Cirque arena show. Even then, only the road crew wore hard hats (actually climbing helmets). Nothing was even mentioned to the house crew about it.



My local had hard hats as a required tool item. We regularly used them for touring shows whenever high work was being done. After that we didn't need to wear them. Also, I think that Rhino (multi-regional staging company) also requires the use of hard hats in similar situations.


mstaylor said:


> Whether you fall under OSHA regs or not, the training should be the same. Normal use of a scissor lift does not require a harness but most scissor lifts have the ability to lay the hand rails down. At that point a harness is required. A vertical lift is the same as far as no harness. The thing I never understood is the welded rigging point is attached to the hand rail in many lifts but the hand rail isn't allowed to be used.
> As far as a harness on a catwalk, don't know without seeing it but I can'timagine it would help all that much. If needed, probably a horizontal lifline would be the ticket but a safety inspector is the one to tell you.



I agree that anyone using a lift should have proper training. Then again, I think training on many systems are lacking. As for the hand rails being able to lay down, no one should ever be elevated with them down. The reason they can lay down is to allow the lift to be able to manuver through doorways. The welded rigging point attached to the handrails is a convenience point to attach utilities and not for personal protection.

Catwalk railings can only protect you if you stay on the catwalk (don't climb on rails or use a ladder) and do not lean through them. If you pass your chest through the guardrail, you have now put yourself at risk of falling. I have a good idea that is what happened to the stagehand in Florida. If you need to change gel or a barrel, break the focus of the instrument so that only your arms need to reach through and no other part of your body. If you are unable to do this, it is imperative that you have a safety inspector help to develop a safety system.


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## MNicolai

I spoke with my theatrical supplier. According to him and his training, OSHA requires harnesses in all powered lifts at all times. Having looked through the OSHA regs, that's my conclusion as well unless I've missed something.


ruinexplorer said:


> The welded rigging point attached to the handrails is a convenience point to attach utilities and not for personal protection.



Then why does my Genie scissor lift have a point with a big sticker that reads "Lanyard Attachment Point"?


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## Van

Before we go crazy on the subject of Suspension Trauma, which tends to happen every time I've heard it mentioned recently, can we clear a few things? Falling and being arrested in a harness is not a death sentence. Hanging , imobile, unconscious in an improperly fitted/worn harness can cause suspension trauma in as little as 10 min < some studies show 6>. Someone who has the ability of even limited mobility has greatly reduced chances of developing ST or HHS even after 30 minutes. In most urban areas, where most of us work, the chances are that Emergency services will be able to reach a venue in under 5 minutes , 5 minutes to asses the situation, and 20 minutes to effect a rescue. even by those stats a completly unconscious person is within the 30 minute resue window. 
This has become an issue for me as I recently was re-certified as a rock climbing/rappelling instructor and some of the kids I was working with had heard these stories of ST or HHS I had a harder time convincing them it was safe to wear a harness than I did convincing them to trust a rope with their weight on it. And before any fingers start flying I'm also a former High Angle Evacuation Specialist so I'm not just blowing smoke.


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## ruinexplorer

MNicolai said:


> I spoke with my theatrical supplier. According to him and his training, OSHA requires harnesses in all powered lifts at all times. Having looked through the OSHA regs, that's my conclusion as well unless I've missed something.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why does my Genie scissor lift have a point with a big sticker that reads "Lanyard Attachment Point"?



The point on the handrails is for accessories. There will be a point on newer units for attaching your lanyard for fall restraint. And as with catwalks, you must remain on the floor of the lift (not on the handrails or even toeboard) and do not overextend your reach, which the restraint should prevent.


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## mstaylor

Van, I agree you don't want to go crazy about death from suspension trauma but it has to be considered in your safety plan. It is something of which anybody climbing has to be aware. I have been climbing since the mid-seventies and have never seen it happen, doesn't mean we don't need to protect against. 
Mike, I will look at the regs to find the part that shows which type of requires what type of protection.


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## What Rigger?

Hardhats are great but are rarely seen if ever onstage in the states. In fact, the only time I have seen hard hats used in an entertainment situation is on the in of a Cirque arena show. Even then, only the road crew wore hard hats (actually climbing helmets). Nothing was even mentioned to the house crew about it. 


Cirque, as a general practice, are now using Rope Access, and climbing helmets are a requirement under RA protocols, be they SPRAT or IRATA. But if you're working under a RA tech you are also required to have a hard hat of some sort on as well.


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## Blacksheep0317

SteveB said:


> A very timely subject as I pondered fall restraint/arrest while in my JLG at +20 ft last Friday. As I rolled along (self powered lift) I felt the need to be in a harness. Note that the existing rail system does it's job of keeping me in the bucket, but I felt vulnerable. I don't feel vulnerable at 15ft., but the OSHA rule says I need a harness.
> 
> Interesting thing though, the very first page on the OSHA website states that State and Local governments are not under OSHA jurisdiction and I'm a State of NY employee and in a State building. So the next question is does our college abide by OSHA reg's ?. I'll call Tuesday.
> 
> Then I still want a harness. A poll of my 3 electricians that focus for me in the JLG says that none of them have ever used a harness in a Genie/JLG bucket at any other place of work, so maybe 10 other NYC area theaters that don't know the rule. All of these folks question as well the wisdom of clipping in to a bucket that might tip, but that's the OSHA rule.
> 
> So a call to Sapsis is in order, then I have to determine WHERE on my JLG we are supposed to clip. Does it have a rated attachment point ?. Rated to 5,000 lbs according to what I'm reading here ?. Good question.
> 
> Good timing on this post as well.




OSHA is a touchy subject in many many ways..

Also being someone in NY i feel the issue here as well. While your workplace may not fall under direct OSHA jurisdiction, what about your insurance providers? What about the lawyers if someone gets hurt? Just because you may not be fined by OSHA doesn't mean that it cant come back later on being the industry standard of safety. Also, many insurers in their policies clearly state that all common safety practices must be followed, meaning that if you take a tumble you may not be getting that nice check in the mail or bills covered. 

That being said, a harness is not fall arrest in and upon it self. As a rigger and high angle rescue trained fireman, fall arrest is an entire system. The harness is simply the means to attach you to said system. The best thing for you would to bring in a safty consultant who is certified in such set-ups. There are big forces involved here that need to be addressed. Physics is a wonderful thing, and a 200 pound man falling has a lot more energy in him than alot of people would assume. Get the pros in, spend money now, save a life and lawsuit later. Its better in the long run, I promise.

As to a intervention should someone fall? Again..get with your local jurisdiction. Again, this is somewhere a pro should be involved. Unless you have someone trained in rescue work you can do more harm than good, as well as put yourself in a bad spot. One person to rescue is enough, no need to put yourself in harms way and make it two. As much as suspension trauma can be a concern, it is much less likely than spinal injuries sustained from either the fall or perhaps what ever caused the fall. Was the person hit in the head with tension steel doing a hang? 

In all cases the best thing is to get a pro in the room and discuss your exact situation. But remember, a failure to plan is a plan to fail!


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## JereNet

Wow!! Reading this makes me feel like there is a lot of safety stuff not implemented in my area. At my school, as well as most other places I've worked/visited, no one even owns a harness. Of course, we're in the Midwest. I'll go up in a lift 25+ feet without even thinking about a harness, hardhat, or plan to rescue someone that's fallen. We also have a 15 foot ladder in our auditorium that I'll walk around on while 15 feet in the air. Of course, I've been doing that kind of stuff my whole life whether in the theater or on a farm and know my limits. Plus everybody else knows not to go on the lift or ladder, plus they're not allowed. And there always has to be someone else in the room.


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## DuckJordan

And this is why accidents happen walking ladders is horrible even if you do it for a long time. Not to mention I bet you have never been certified to use this lift. 

Sorry but this proves to be a valid safety concern and needs to be addressed immediately. Granted harnesses to me are useless in a lift but walking a ladder?! That's absurd.

sent from my Droid incredible using tapatalk.


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## mstaylor

If you are talking a scissor lift or an AWP then you don't need a belt, but if you had recieved training on it you would know that. Walking a ladder is just a matter of time, you can do it a thousand times before disaster occurs.


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## ruinexplorer

JereNet, I pray that your luck holds out. The safety practices, unfortunately do not come from speculation about what could happen, but the direct result of accidents and determining how to prevent them in the future.

Put it this way, you live in the Midwest, do you know what to do in the instance of a tornado? It is the training that people get because it is known that tornados are a fact of life living in that region. However, even though there are faults, you probably don't prepare for earthquakes the same way residents of the Pacific coast do. The problem is that complacancy brings about carelessness as in your example of walking a ladder at height. Just because you haven't had anything happen to you doesn't preclude the chance of accident. In fact, the more you walk the ladder, the greater the risk of you having an accident from the simple fatigue of the materials.

Those of us who give advice on safety practices have lived to give the advice. I hope that you will take the time to learn to do things in a safe manner.


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## DuckJordan

mstaylor said:


> If you are talking a scissor lift or an AWP then you don't need a belt, but if you had recieved training on it you would know that. Walking a ladder is just a matter of time, you can do it a thousand times before disaster occurs.


 

Me and several other technicians I have worked with and professors from many different schools believe a harness is going to harm you in the long run if a tip occurs. I feel much more comfortable standing in the basket (not on the rails) and if a tip occurs having the ability to jump and roll out of the basket. With a harness I feel your more likely to get caught under the basket or trapped in the basket causing more harm.


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## mstaylor

ruinexplorer said:


> JereNet, I pray that your luck holds out. The safety practices, unfortunately do not come from speculation about what could happen, but the direct result of accidents and determining how to prevent them in the future.
> 
> Put it this way, you live in the Midwest, do you know what to do in the instance of a tornado? It is the training that people get because it is known that tornados are a fact of life living in that region. However, even though there are faults, you probably don't prepare for earthquakes the same way residents of the Pacific coast do. The problem is that complacancy brings about carelessness as in your example of walking a ladder at height. Just because you haven't had anything happen to you doesn't preclude the chance of accident. In fact, the more you walk the ladder, the greater the risk of you having an accident from the simple fatigue of the materials.
> 
> Those of us who give advice on safety practices have lived to give the advice. I hope that you will take the time to learn to do things in a safe manner.


I am from the old school of construction and theatre, safety wasn't something we gave a lot of thought. As I have been in it longer plus received more training, I am much more safety concious. I would say 95 to 97% of the falls and work platform accidents are people doing things they were trained not to do or never had the training to begin with. People just flat fall sometimes but most of it they are doing stupid things that they should know better than to do.


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## derekleffew

DuckJordan said:


> Me and several other technicians I have worked with and professors from many different schools believe a harness is going to harm you in the long run if a tip occurs. ...


Do you feel the same way about wearing a harness in an articulating boom lift? How about a seatbelt in a car? As Judge Judy says, "I don't care what you believe. The law is the law."


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## MNicolai

DuckJordan said:


> Me and several other technicians I have worked with and professors from many different schools believe a harness is going to harm you in the long run if a tip occurs. I feel much more comfortable standing in the basket (not on the rails) and if a tip occurs having the ability to jump and roll out of the basket. With a harness I feel your more likely to get caught under the basket or trapped in the basket causing more harm.


 
A proper fall protection system in a lift utilizes a shock-absorbing lanyard. This largely reduces the risk of a tip-over in the event some falls -- even dives from the basket of a vertical-mast(w/ outriggers), scissor, or boom lift.

Short of driving a lift off of the edge of the stage, the odds of a scissor tip-over otherwise are almost zero in a theater.

Even in a single-man, to be ejected from the basket in a way that you could be crushed by a lift during a tip-over, you would have to be standing on the railings or something similarly very dangerous to prompt the accident in the first place.

As for being in more danger by being in the basket when it crashes into the floor -- I am able to imagine only one exotic scenario where anyone is safer jumping from the lift than if they were to remain in the basket; a work crew was using an articulating boom lift near a lake, and the crew was required to wear both life preservers and fall-protection. Fall-protection if the lift falls over, and life-preservers if a worker falls into the water. However, wearing both of those makes it incredibly difficult to move around -- it's impractical. When OSHA was called to give their input because the regulations seemed absurd for this particular case, the final conclusion was that the greatest risk was of the lift crashing into the lake, and should that happen, fall-protection would serve the purpose of mafia blocks, anchoring them to the lake floor and drowning them.

The OSHA inspector reasoned that this was a unique case where two regulations collided and were counter-productive to the safety of the workers; he only required that the workers wear life-preservers and that fall-protection could be waived in this case.

Unless you're focusing lights over a large body of water or next to a cliff, you'll not be in a position where you are in greater harm in the basket than if you jump from the lift as it tips over.

That said -- it is not mandated by OSHA that a scissor or vertical-mast lift operator wear a harness, but it will not put you in the way of harm should you choose to wear one. If you come into harm's way during a tip-over, it's because you were misusing your lift in the first place.

Your insurance provider or employer may have stricter policies though. I know of film studios where even just getting into a lift to drive it from one side of the room to another at ground-level without fall-protection, a hard-hat, AND steel-toe boots will result in a suspension.

To elaborate on Derek's comment, the great thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not. Like a mother telling her 7-year old not to play in the street -- whether the child understands why they shouldn't play in the street or not does not change the fact that if that child does play in the street, there's a pretty good chance they'll get hit by a car.


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## mstaylor

> a work crew was using an articulating boom lift near a lake, and the crew was required to wear both life preservers and fall-protection. Fall-protection if the lift falls over, and life-preservers if a worker falls into the water. However, wearing both of those makes it incredibly difficult to move around -- it's impractical. When OSHA was called to give their input because the regulations seemed absurd for this particular case, the final conclusion was that the greatest risk was of the lift crashing into the lake, and should that happen, fall-protection would serve the purpose of mafia blocks, anchoring them to the lake floor and drowning them.


I was in a similar situation and I convinced OSHA that the fall protection was more important than life vests. The water was only four or five feet deep and if I was fully extended to 88ft I would over shoot the water. I would have to be below twenty ft in an 88 ft lift to actually hit the water.


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## DuckJordan

derekleffew said:


> Do you feel the same way about wearing a harness in an articulating boom lift? How about a seatbelt in a car? As Judge Judy says, "I don't care what you believe. The law is the law."


 
Having never been in an articulating boom lift i can't say, as far as a seat belt goes i wear one every time. The car is designed when impacted to absorb impact while still being rigid in the core to save from collapse upon the people inside. A lift on the other hand doesn't have that ability. A harness is to me still a bad decision. 

In a single man as well as our multiple we generally are 20 foot in the air. There is enough sway to easily get me edgy about a possible tip. This is on a flat surface with outriggers down. There is always enough give in the metal pole to sway. I feel much more comfortable without a harness than i do with one. And when it comes down to it that will save me more often than not. Being uncomfortable with anything as far as safety almost always ends badly.

And personally Judge Judy is just an old codger who hasn't had enough contact with her kids so she takes it out on everyone else. Also laws are not strict devices that if certain conditions are made it happens its all upon the review of the courts to decide if what is illegal is.

With that... Follow your local laws and jurisdictions. I work in an environment that allows me to choose whether a harness is used or not. Most places it doesn't work like that. And I will always say safety first. I just turned down loading weight 40' in the air because the arbor had to be below the loading rail and no way to clip into a fall arrest system. Did i get booted out? No, i came down and someone who was willing went up.


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## ruinexplorer

DuckJordan said:


> Me and several other technicians I have worked with and professors from many different schools believe a harness is going to harm you in the long run if a tip occurs. I feel much more comfortable standing in the basket (not on the rails) and if a tip occurs having the ability to jump and roll out of the basket. With a harness I feel your more likely to get caught under the basket or trapped in the basket causing more harm.


 

This may or may not be the best option for you. Many people feel the same way when in a forklift, but the requirement to wear the seatbelt is to prevent people from trying to exit in case of a tip over. In that instance, you are more likely to be killed if you exit the vehicle than if you stay inside.

However, since OSHA classifies scissor lifts as mobile scaffolds and not aerial platforms (see 02/23/2000 - Fall protection, training, inspection and design requirements of aerial lifts and scissor lifts/scaffolds. being an updated interpretation of 9. Additional Requirements for Specific Types of Scaffolds -- 1926.452 b. Scissors lifts are addressed by 1926.453 - Aerial Lifts, not by 1926.452(w), mobile scaffolds.), the mandated protections include 

> 3. Fall Protection Requirements. Fall protection is required for employees when working 10' or more above the next lower level.
> a. The employer has the option, in many instances, of providing a guardrail system or of having each employee use a personal fall arrest system. Exceptions are provided in 1926.451(g)(1)(i) through (vi), and are discussed below.
> f. The fall protection to be provided for employees working on aerial lifts will vary according to the type of aerial lift involved.
> (1) Some lifts are intended to be used with guardrails, while others are designed to be used by employees protected by personal fall arrest systems.
> (2) The consensus standards listed in Non-mandatory Appendix C indicate what fall protection would be appropriate for particular types of aerial lifts.


CPL 02-01-023 - CPL 2-1.23 - Inspection Procedures for Enforcing Subpart L, Scaffolds Used in Construction - 29 CFR 1926.450-454

Of course, I have not been designated a "qualified/competent person" for any of your employers and as such cannot be able to tell you how to operate in your venue. That will be up to your employer to provide such a competent person to determine the risks at your venue and designate the proper safety measures.


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## tomed101

> Of course, I have not been designated a "qualified/competent person" for any of your employers and as such cannot be able to tell you how to operate in your venue. That will be up to your employer to provide such a competent person to determine the risks at your venue and designate the proper safety measures.





One point I found interesting during my boom lift training was that apparently, a "competent person" in a legal sense is simply a person who takes the liability... So according to that theory, anyone who will sign on the dotted line saying that [xxx activity is safe] is now a "Competent Person"...


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## MNicolai

tomed101 said:


> One point I found interesting during my boom lift training was that apparently, a "competent person" in a legal sense is simply a person who takes the liability... So according to that theory, anyone who will sign on the dotted line saying that [xxx activity is safe] is now a "Competent Person"...



Something like that, but I bet I can direct an 18-year-old student employee to hop into a scissor lift who has never been trained except for a brief "and this drives it forward...", and if they get hurt, a court of law will beg to differ that they were ever a "Competent Person" and then the employer likely becomes liable for allowing that person into the lift in the first place.

Even if a student employee signed the dotted line on a liability waiver, I'd venture a guess that no court of law would recognize it if the employer was not able to provide proof of adequate training.

A "Competent Person" working independently or having falsely claimed competency to their employer is likely ultimately liable in the event of an accident. An employee who admits to having no prior training and subsequently causes an accident likely puts more of the fault on the employer than the employee.

It's both the employee's responsibility to safely work within their expertise and the employer's responsibility to enforce workplace safety.


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## gcpsoundlight

I just completed a day of EWP training at our local college. Turns out that in australia, you can go up to 11m (36') with only the one day course, and a certificate of competency is issued at the end of that. to go Higher, you can do the Govornment accredited licence, which allows you to go up to 35m (100'). In most cases, the certificate is more than enough.

Also, interesingly, in a Boom Lift, you are legally required to wear a fall arrest harness, while in a scissor lift, you are not.


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## derekleffew

MNicolai said:


> Something like that, but I bet I can direct an 18-year-old student employee to hop into a scissor lift who has never been trained except for a brief "and this drives it forward...", and if they get hurt, a court of law will beg to differ that they were ever a "Competent Person" and then the employer likely becomes liable for allowing that person into the lift in the first place. ...


See http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/22087-college-student-dies-scissor-lift-accident.html . I believe the latest development is that Notre Dame is appealing the IOSHA fine, which is common (standard?) procedure.


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## chausman

In Washington, I'm not "technically" allowed to go above 10'. Volunteer or paid.


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## LXPlot

chausman said:


> In Washington, I'm not "technically" allowed to go above 10'. Volunteer or paid.


 
Man, how do you live? Although maybe it's a middle school thing. Regardless, I sense you've had your fair share of "sixty feet in the air upside-down in the dark" moments.


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## chausman

LXPlot said:


> Man, how do you live? Although maybe it's a middle school thing. Regardless, I sense you've had your fair share of "sixty feet in the air upside-down in the dark" moments.


 
I just pretend I hadn't read that and get on with what I'm doing. Though not particularly high (the space isn't that large), the scariest was the 75+ year old 15' wooden ladder. Trying desperately to focus some leaf gobos. 

From Washington State Department of Labor and Industries:

> Work activities teens are prohibited from doing in non-agricultural jobs
> • Working at heights greater than 10 feet off the ground or floor level.
> (and less having to do with heights but...
> • Any power-driven machinery
> • Construction
> • Loading or unloading trucks
> • Ladders and scaffolds



I think I've broken almost all of those...


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## MPowers

JereNet said:


> ..... of course, we're in the Midwest. I'll go up in a lift 25+ feet without even thinking.....


 Well You got that last part right, but being from the Midwest has nothing to do with it. I also am from the Midwest and I guarantee, it does not make one braver or more foolhardy, smarter or more bullet proof. I don't have a problem with heights (except at my age I get out of breath climbing up to them) As a teenager I worked at a lumber camp as a topper. Trust me walking a 15' ladder has nothing on a 60' pine when the top goes and you're there with a 48" bar running chain saw. What did I learn? I learned that was a foolish risk and stopped doing it. FWIW, They don't allow toppers any more in American lumber camps, or teenagers at heights, or with construction tools, etc.


> .....Of course, I've been doing that kind of stuff my whole life.....


 And an incredibly short life it has been so far, I have paint brushes older than you. And, if you continue to treat safety the way you do, it is highly likely to stay very short. The problem with that kind of reasoning is that one never knows just what their limit is.....until they exceed it. Then it is too late. I've been rigging for a couple of "weeks" now. Definitely longer than you've been alive and probably longer than your parents have been living. My first professional rigging job was in 1963. One thing I have learned is the adage is not just an old hackneyed saying, it is all too true. There are foolish riggers and there are old riggers.....There are no old, foolish riggers. Look at the Stage hand who died at the concert in Florida 2 years ago. High rigger for 30 years, knew his stuff, had his harness on, didn't clip in on his climb up, slipped that one time....fell to his death.

You sound like an intelligent person who has had relatively little real training in safety and good work practices. Use that intelligence and learn from the people around you in the business. If you want to walk ladders, go join Cirque. If you want to work in Theatre as a lighting, sound or rigging person, play it safe, learn the rules, follow them and teach others to do the same. Maybe 48 years from now you'll still be in the biz, doing what you love and loving what you're doing!


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## ruinexplorer

When someone decides to take a risk, that person decides to not only risk their lives but to also put the livelihood of others on the line. Insurance companies don't succeed by making payments. So, when there's an accident, they will do their absolute best to push the liability on to someone else. That somebody will be the employer or supervisor. So, when you knowingly break the established procedures, you could potentially be sending someone to the poorhouse, or jail (if there have been OSHA violations of the same nature before, then, depending on severity, jail time is a possibility). Maybe you hate your boss and hope that if you get injured that he will have to pay, but don't count on that.

chausman, you post the law for state labor law. You will likely find (as with the US Dept. of Labor), that in an educational setting with proper instruction that you may be able to undertake some of those activities legally. However, once you start earning a wage, then the labor laws go into effect and you put your employer at risk of some pretty heavy fines and you will likely be terminated for knowingly failing to abide by the law. So, it is in your best interest to learn the limitations placed on you due to your age and work within those limits.


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## chausman

ruinexplorer said:


> chausman, you post the law for state labor law. You will likely find (as with the US Dept. of Labor), that in an educational setting with proper instruction that you may be able to undertake some of those activities legally. However, once you start earning a wage, then the labor laws go into effect and you put your employer at risk of some pretty heavy fines and you will likely be terminated for knowingly failing to abide by the law. So, it is in your best interest to learn the limitations placed on you due to your age and work within those limits.


 
I know that that doesn't apply to high school or anything like that. Now where does CYT fall in to that though...


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## zmb

chausman said:


> From Washington State Department of Labor and Industries:
> 
> 
> I think I've broken almost all of those...


 
Guess I have too and I'm in Washington...
Doesn't present any issue in school (hey, they offer classes involving power machinery) but the intresting place is when I receive stipend pay with a non-profit theater in a city venue.

gafftaper, being in Washington and working in an educational setting, perharps you could help explain why is/isn't legal for chausmen and I as students to do tasked that are banned by the state OSHA.


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## mstaylor

I do arena rigging so it is different than working in a theatre. I have done that also but not as a rigger, i did lighting and set construction. The rigger that did a lot of my initial training was an old steel worker and he did a lot of less than spiffy things, but what he always told me was you only get one mistake.


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## derekleffew

mstaylor said:


> ...but what he always told me was you only get one mistake.


How does the T-shirt slogan go?
*If at first you don't succeed, rigging is not for you.*​


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## jwl868

And a compilation of weekly information about the results of just one mistake:

Weekly Reports of Fatalities, Catastrophes, and Other Events



Joe


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## jglodeklights

Arrest harness or not, a tip over in a lift can cause serious injuries or death at any height. 

The college I went to has a scholarship in memory of a student who died when the Genie lift fell into the pit.

One of my college's acting teacher's husbands was seriously injured when the Genie he was in tipped into the pit (IATSE crew).

Both instances WOULD have been avoided had the ground crews supporting the person in the lift been more vigilant. Proper calls to communicate movement of the lift, scenery and pit.

To add to this discussion, working at heights practices involving the ground support crew. Proper communication and alertness of the ground crew is important as well. Besides acting as a defense barrier to detect and track possible issues at the low level, they can be a second set of eyes to remind the person up high of safety measures they make be overlooking. As these two instances show, it doesn't matter what level of theater, safety is serious and isn't dependent upon one person.


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## Blacksheep0317

skienblack said:


> I use a fall arrest harness a couple times a month to service our revolutions which are over our house. I know if I fell and was arrested by the harness I would not be happy and most likely injured. Out of curiosity has anyone here fallen in a harness and could talk about this experience?


 
Yes, as well as spending many hours studying the subject from the rescue side as well.

I was doing a focus, grabbed onto a energized can with a bad porcelian and got a good buzz. Enough to make me loose my bearings just long enough to topple. This is why we wear shock lanyards. Instead of a sharp stop that can cause trauma on several levels, its a "slow" stop. 

Long story short, I was able to self resuce and had nothing but a tingle in my hand, and a bruised ego. If you are wearing proper PPE and wearing it correctlythen that is all you should experience. 

However, all this recent talk about suspension trauma, it can happen. But not so much in our setting. Is that to say not to be prepared to combat it? No. Essientially, suspension trauma is the same concept as having a tournaquet on an appendage. You deprive your cells of oxygen, then go into a anaerobic state in which they start consuming themselves to survive. Also, the lactic acids and other wastes cant leave due to the lack of blood flow to the area. Once you release that pressure and allow blood to flow, you surge the affected area causeing weakened cells to burst as well as you overwhelm your body with a sudden rush of waste. This in turn, to put in simply, puts your body into a type of shock. 

But all of this can be avoided!

Learn proper self rescue techniques.
Wear correct PPE correctly.


As to another post about upriggers wearing hard hats, and the lack of need..
I disagree.

I have had several instances rigging where your steel gets tensioned in a weird way and it comes back to bite you. Or those low beams in arenas? They hurt. Outdoors massive stadium show? Almost every safty code you can find says anyone working in the direct area of a crane needs a hard hat on. 

Just my two cents!


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## mstaylor

Blacksheep0317 said:


> Yes, as well as spending many hours studying the subject from the rescue side as well.
> 
> I was doing a focus, grabbed onto a energized can with a bad porcelian and got a good buzz. Enough to make me loose my bearings just long enough to topple. This is why we wear shock lanyards. Instead of a sharp stop that can cause trauma on several levels, its a "slow" stop.
> 
> Long story short, I was able to self resuce and had nothing but a tingle in my hand, and a bruised ego. If you are wearing proper PPE and wearing it correctlythen that is all you should experience.
> 
> However, all this recent talk about suspension trauma, it can happen. But not so much in our setting. Is that to say not to be prepared to combat it? No. Essientially, suspension trauma is the same concept as having a tournaquet on an appendage. You deprive your cells of oxygen, then go into a anaerobic state in which they start consuming themselves to survive. Also, the lactic acids and other wastes cant leave due to the lack of blood flow to the area. Once you release that pressure and allow blood to flow, you surge the affected area causeing weakened cells to burst as well as you overwhelm your body with a sudden rush of waste. This in turn, to put in simply, puts your body into a type of shock.
> 
> But all of this can be avoided!
> 
> Learn proper self rescue techniques.
> Wear correct PPE correctly.
> 
> 
> As to another post about upriggers wearing hard hats, and the lack of need..
> I disagree.
> 
> I have had several instances rigging where your steel gets tensioned in a weird way and it comes back to bite you. Or those low beams in arenas? They hurt. Outdoors massive stadium show? Almost every safty code you can find says anyone working in the direct area of a crane needs a hard hat on.
> 
> Just my two cents!


A hard hat is not needed if you are the top of the heap. I prefer guys that are 50 to 100 ft above me not drop hardhats at me. Having a crane above you does not make you top of the heap. Think of it in terms of construction. If you are on a roof puttig down hot melt then you don't need hardhats. Now the HVAC guys show up and start setting units ahead of you with a crane, now you need a hardhat. 
As far as battling suspension trauma, as long as you are awake and aware then you can fight it. If you fall, hit your head and are knocked unconcious then you have a problem. You can't fight your belt or self rescue if you aren't concious. It's could also be possible if you had a serious injury, back pelvis leg or arm. 
All that said, I have done rescues but never was there a chance of suspension trauma. It is rare but something that anybody that works in heights knows about and understands. They also have to know the rescue plan in case of a fall.


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## ruinexplorer

I am bringing this thread back to the surface due to a recent accident in South Carolina. While details are not known of the exact cause, knowing safe work practices and keeping vigilant when working at heights is imperative.


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## MPowers

The news report seems to indicate a toppled over one person lift, but how or why can't be determined without more info. Working alone was the first mistake but whether or not that contributed directly to the accident or prevented help from being summoned in time to prevent the fatality we can't tell without more information.


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## FMEng

mstaylor said:


> A hard hat is not needed if you are the top of the heap. I prefer guys that are 50 to 100 ft above me not drop hardhats at me.



We need to borrow an idea from the riggers that climb radio towers every day. Common hard hats are nearly worthless for high work because they fly off so easily. The tower crews use a helmet that looks like ones for mountain climbing. It is more snug to the head, has more skull coverage, brimless, and has a chin strap to keep it on, no matter what. The lack of a brim makes it much easier to see above, which also helps to prevent accidents. I haven't seen a typical hard hat used by any tower crews in years. Proper head protection saves lives, and common hard hats are a feeble substitute.

http://www.gmesupply.com/safety-wear/safety-helmets/petzl-helmets


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## avkid

I use a Petzl Vertex when climbing as a roof tech.
So much better than my traditional hats for at height work.


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## LavaASU

avkid said:


> I use a Petzl Vertex when climbing as a roof tech.
> So much better than my traditional hats for at height work.



+1 to the vertex. I use it as my go to hard hat because it doesn't fall off.


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## gafftapegreenia

I would really like to know if he was using the outriggers or not. :-/ 

I know from several sessions at USITT that there is a lot of debate going on in the industry concerning if a fall arrest harness is needed in a Genie, and where to clip it to. Genie says to clip it to the basket, but apparently that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.


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## techieman33

gafftapegreenia said:


> I would really like to know if he was using the outriggers or not. :-/
> 
> I know from several sessions at USITT that there is a lot of debate going on in the industry concerning if a fall arrest harness is needed in a Genie, and where to clip it to. Genie says to clip it to the basket, but apparently that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.



IMO clipping into the basket accomplishes nothing. At best it encourages standing on the rails, or leaning way out to reach something instead of taking the time to move the lift. And if the lift is going over I'd rather not be attached to it. There is that tiny chance that I could grab onto something overhead and not fall to the ground. If I'm clipped in I don't have even that tiny chance. It's not like being in the basket offers any protection on impact with the ground.


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## Max Warasila

Once upon a time I climbed for sport and recreation, and I loved my petzl. Can't imagine using anything but as a hard hat if I were a rigger.


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## LavaASU

I was working on a gig where in order to drive a lift in their building you had to have a building specific cert. Which meant that the house guy was effectively the only one who could drive it. Of course he was also probably the worst lift driver in the building (no less the 30 professional lighting/sound/rigging/scenic techs being there).


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## DuckJordan

Thats likely an insurance thing, a local venue has the same requirements but do yearly training sessions with the local union to get the members insured to drive forks and man lifts


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## ruinexplorer

Many venues will only allow specific people to drive motorized equipment in their facilities. This way the building staff can be assured that the operator is aware of specific policies and potential dangers at their venue. Someone who may be a more experienced driver could potentially come into a venue and cause an accident if they are unaware of the load rating of a particular section of the floor, for instance. IIRC, there is a standard for aerial work platforms and personnel lifts which recommend that the operator receives individualized training at each worksite in order to establish that they recognize hazards present, not just an insurance thing.


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## Max Warasila

The training I received actually puts the responsibility of identifying and avoiding hazards on me, the operator, not my employer nor owner of the lift. I ask for location specific hazards if I'm in a different venue or location than I normally work, but not everyone is so thorough, so I can see why these kinds of house rules exist.


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## MNicolai

The summary of my training was "You are now capable of approaching any lift (boom, scissor, vertical mast, etc) and seeking out which information you need to know to operate that lift safely."

Different quirks from different manufacturers aren't something you can learn from a manual though. I was on a construction site not long ago with JLG and Genie boom lifts. Everyone stopped using the JLG because of how dangerous it was to use on a sloped surface. Unlike the Genie, when you went to move it even a couple inches, it fully disengaged the brakes and the whole weight of the lift on that slope made it start barreling down the slope. Only way to stop it was the E-stop, to release your foot from the pedal to kill it, or to slam in into reverse. Painters had learned the hard way that if you try to stop its free fall by slamming it in reverse, you needed to have the throttle cranked up to overcome the force of the lift accelerating down the incline.

Same job site where a plumber 360'd in the Genie boom lift because they had just polished the concrete rake of the seating area and he drove across it, striking a piece of cardboard with one wheel. He lost all traction on that wheel and the whole lift wildly pivoted around on him until he regained enough traction again.

This is the long way of saying, you can only learn so much from a manual, and that there's no substitute for experience and for speaking with people who have used that same lift before in those same conditions. And for being smart enough to realize not all hazards will be apparent to you at first glance so you should always remain vigilant (such as a piece of scrap cardboard on a polished concrete incline).


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## ruinexplorer

That is a perfect example of what OSHA requires for jobsite specific training.


> *Question 4:* When employees move from job site to job site, must employers retrain employees on how to operate a lift prior to each job?
> 
> *Answer:* Section 1926.454 states that employers "shall have each employee who performs work while on a scaffold trained by a person qualified in the subject matter to recognize the hazards associated with the type of scaffold being used and to understand the procedures to control or minimize those hazards...." If there are hazards associated with the operation of the equipment on the new job site for which the employee has not been trained, then additional training would be required. For example, there may be electrical hazards, falling object hazards, and hazards associated with the terrain on the new job site that were not present at the previous site. Training addressing those new hazards would be required.


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24191

@Max Warasila you are correct in that the operator is required to know how to determine hazards and how to avoid them, but there may be things that cannot be specifically identified. Can you walk into a new theater and immediately know if the floor could support the weight of a lift? There's a good chance that you couldn't. However, the venue manager should be able to provide that data to your employer (if they aren't currently the employer) who could then train you as to where you could drive the lift.


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## LavaASU

ruinexplorer said:


> Many venues will only allow specific people to drive motorized equipment in their facilities. This way the building staff can be assured that the operator is aware of specific policies and potential dangers at their venue. Someone who may be a more experienced driver could potentially come into a venue and cause an accident if they are unaware of the load rating of a particular section of the floor, for instance. IIRC, there is a standard for aerial work platforms and personnel lifts which recommend that the operator receives individualized training at each worksite in order to establish that they recognize hazards present, not just an insurance thing.



I wouldn't say most if you include hotels with ballrooms. Most of them say do you know how to drive a lift? ok cool its over there.


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## techieman33

LavaASU said:


> I wouldn't say most if you include hotels with ballrooms. Most of them say do you know how to drive a lift? ok cool its over there.



Most hotels around here won't let you on a ladder of lift due to their maintenance unions contracts.


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## LavaASU

techieman33 said:


> Most hotels around here won't let you on a ladder of lift due to their maintenance unions contracts.



Does their maintenance union hang lights? Because otherwise that could be impossible without a ladder or a lift (hanging lights off a ladder massively sucking of course)


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## Max Warasila

LavaASU said:


> I wouldn't say most if you include hotels with ballrooms. Most of them say do you know how to drive a lift? ok cool its over there.



A fair portion of the ballrooms around here won't let you do anything that requires a lift unless you're from a specified vendor, but in other cases your summary is usually how it works.


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## StradivariusBone

gafftapegreenia said:


> I would really like to know if he was using the outriggers or not. :-/
> 
> I know from several sessions at USITT that there is a lot of debate going on in the industry concerning if a fall arrest harness is needed in a Genie, and where to clip it to. Genie says to clip it to the basket, but apparently that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable.



I took a lift class for using our Genie mast lift after our district's insurance deemed it necessary (granted the training was for boom and scissor lifts and the instructor knew less about mast lifts than us, but whatever). In the Genie manual we were using there was nothing about clipping in. This was a newer 36s. We got into the same debate with our instructor who wanted us to clip into the 1/4" diameter D-Ring mounted bolted to the mast. There's no way that's rated hardware and nowhere in the manual did it indicate you should trust it with your life. 

Not trying to be argumentative at all here, I'm just trying to get better info- where does Genie specifically say you should clip into in the bucket? It makes me uncomfortable just because I've never seen any evidence that it's any safer than not clipping in. Will a fall actually topple the mast?


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## gafftapegreenia

StradivariusBone said:


> I took a lift class for using our Genie mast lift after our district's insurance deemed it necessary (granted the training was for boom and scissor lifts and the instructor knew less about mast lifts than us, but whatever). In the Genie manual we were using there was nothing about clipping in. This was a newer 36s. We got into the same debate with our instructor who wanted us to clip into the 1/4" diameter D-Ring mounted bolted to the mast. There's no way that's rated hardware and nowhere in the manual did it indicate you should trust it with your life.
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative at all here, I'm just trying to get better info- where does Genie specifically say you should clip into in the bucket? It makes me uncomfortable just because I've never seen any evidence that it's any safer than not clipping in. Will a fall actually topple the mast?



I was only posting what i was remember hearing from a USITT session. I'm going to be researching this issue further.


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## sk8rsdad

My Genie lift includes a rated clip-in point and my jurisdiction requires the use of a harness and lanyard (PPE). Actually the interpretation of the law is not quite as clear-cut as that. PPE is required for boom lifts at all times. Scissor lifts and their ilk only require PPE if the "vehicle" is moving horizontally while above 2.4m.

Clearly the railing is the primary safety feature but the lanyard makes it much more difficult to do stupid things like standing on said railing. I suppose there's always a chance of ejection in any moving lift, however remote it may be for a mast lift on a level stage.

http://www.labour.gc.ca/eng/resources/ipg/065.shtml

Edited to add: None of these regulations actually apply to my venue because we are all-volunteer; hence we have no employees. So OHSA (not OSHA but serves the same purpose) has no jurisdiction. They won't investigate us no matter how hard we beg. Still their regulations make good sense and we follow them as much as possible.


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## ruinexplorer

Found this video which illustrates the importance of wearing a hard hat when overhead work is being performed.


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## ruinexplorer

https://www.osha.gov/OshDoc/data_Hurricane_Facts/aerial_lifts_safety.pdf

Though OSHA definitely doesn't have jurisdiction over all of our members, here's a good quick fact sheet to go by regarding aerial lifts.


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## Will Elphingstone

Question-
I work at a school theater that has a genie lift, however they (custodians) will not let me use it because I am not a custodian. The alternate is a very wobbly and sketchy rolling A frame extension ladder. I use genies all the time at other theaters, but they won't budge on letting me use it. What is the best argument I can male with them for letting me use the Geine vs the sketchy ladder.


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## MNicolai

If they won't give you the training, get the training and certification card from your local lift rental company. Then if they continue to refuse you access, escalate the issue to the head of your buildings and grounds dept as a dire safety concern.

Most of my projects are active construction sites and the recent trend on those sites is toward "Ladders as a Last Resort". In general, working off a lift is much safer than using a ladder. If you want to use a ladder on these job sites, you have to fill out a permit request with the general contractor stating your intended use of the ladder, the type of ladder you will be using, and why you are unable to perform your work out of a lift. They restrict your use of ladders to caged ladders and platform ladders. No A-frames or extension ladders allowed, and you must be tied off above 6'.

The idea that someone without fall protection would use an 18' rolling A-frame would be unconscionable.


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## ruinexplorer

Will Elphingstone said:


> Question-
> I work at a school theater that has a genie lift, however they (custodians) will not let me use it because I am not a custodian. The alternate is a very wobbly and sketchy rolling A frame extension ladder. I use genies all the time at other theaters, but they won't budge on letting me use it. What is the best argument I can male with them for letting me use the Geine vs the sketchy ladder.


Are you a student worker? There may be specific rule that separates you. Does the school district require individuals go through a training procedure? This is common. They could even have specific work at heights requirements that you are not following by being on the ladder, it's just not as easy to prevent its use.


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## RickR

Another common reason for otherwise silly rules is insurance. If you are not covered in just the right way then the answer is NO. The custodians are probably just doing what they are told. This sounds like it needs to go up the admin ladder. And those are never safe!


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## TuckerD

MNicolai said:


> If they won't give you the training, get the training and certification card from your local lift rental company. Then if they continue to refuse you access, escalate the issue to the head of your buildings and grounds dept as a dire safety concern.
> 
> Most of my projects are active construction sites and the recent trend on those sites is toward "Ladders as a Last Resort". In general, working off a lift is much safer than using a ladder. If you want to use a ladder on these job sites, you have to fill out a permit request with the general contractor stating your intended use of the ladder, the type of ladder you will be using, and why you are unable to perform your work out of a lift. They restrict your use of ladders to caged ladders and platform ladders. No A-frames or extension ladders allowed, and you must be tied off above 6'.
> 
> The idea that someone without fall protection would use an 18' rolling A-frame would be unconscionable.



That's really interesting to hear about. I work in commercial construction last summer and saw some interesting working at heights practices. Glad to hear about a company taking lift/ladder safety so seriously.


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## ruinexplorer

When you think a short fall isn't so bad, just look at the forces involved.


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## ruinexplorer

Article regarding recent OSHA changes to working at heights.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/osha-fall-protection-update-2016-loui-mccurley


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## egilson1

This should be very helpful for climbing portable structures.


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