# Securing Pipe to Channel Iron Grid



## Footer (May 6, 2016)

Anyone know of any manufactured piece to hold pipe (1.5" sch 80) to a channel iron plank floor grid? When we pull points we lash the pipe to the channel iron currently, anyone know of a clamp or something better then a bit of 1/4" rope?


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## derekleffew (May 6, 2016)

Rig everything "motor up"?



http://www.sapsis-rigging.com/Merch...&Product_Code=06-09-20-0023&Category_Code=321


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## RickR (May 6, 2016)

How about a cheeseborough on a bar with 2 J bolts? Similar to mounting a block.
Or even a bent strap (half a pipe clamp) and J bolts if you don't mind a bit of pipe spin. That keeps the pipe flat on the deck.


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## MNicolai (May 6, 2016)

Last theater I worked at I cut 4x4's down to 2' pieces, and then nailed 2x4's to the top with a groove cut in the middle that pipes could rest in. I made about 2 dozen of those. Then I cut a bunch of 1.5" pipes down to 24" pieces and would lay one piece of pipe between the grooves of two of the wooden grid stands.

Side view of one stand:
----\O/---- 2x4 layer, nailed to 4x4 with groove cut at center for pipe to lay in.
====== 4x4 layer, laid down on grid

Not sure if this is heavy duty enough for your application but I found it pretty effective for making points on our grid for things like scenery, effects speakers, and mirror balls.


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## gafftapegreenia (May 6, 2016)

I wish I did. This is one of those things that has plagued my thoughts for years. 


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## Footer (May 7, 2016)

RickR said:


> Not sure if this is heavy duty enough for your application but I found it pretty effective for making points on our grid for things like scenery, effects speakers, and mirror balls.



Ya, we're talking a 1 ton point here... you have to have the pipe tight to the grid to make this work. 

I saw the sapsis contraption when I was looking... how would you like to have to move that thing around on a grid???

@RickR I was thinking along the same lines as the J-Bolt think. I currently have some of those and knobs in my mcmaster basket. Trying to decide what to use to capture the top. Kind of amazed lightsource does not make this. Your not looking for it to take any weight, just keep things from rolling around. Also trying to make it slick enough that you still save time doing the pipe thing vs steel baskets on the wells.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 7, 2016)

Spreading a one ton point load over enough area is critical, maybe some of reason SR rig is so large. At 75 PSF, not unusual, that's over 13 SF. There may be other designs but I'm not comfortable with a 2' pipe without a lot more information. And my guess is Footer has this, but for the wider audience, be careful.


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## rochem (May 7, 2016)

When I worked in the same house for a long period of time, we welded ~6" pieces of angle iron perpendicular to either end of a pipe at a distance that would allow the angle to easily drop between grid slats, but also prevent excessive side to side movement. Obviously it's important to ensure that the pipe is actually lying on the grid slats, and not the angle iron. May not work for all situations, but it worked very well for us.


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## Footer (May 7, 2016)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Spreading a one ton point load over enough area is critical, maybe some of reason SR rig is so large. At 75 PSF, not unusual, that's over 13 SF. There may be other designs but I'm not comfortable with a 2' pipe without a lot more information. And my guess is Footer has this, but for the wider audience, be careful.



I have a 1100# concentrated load allowed on each channel iron of my grid. Last summer we doubled the steel that runs SL/SR from the wells that supports the channel iron to 2'6" centers. Plenty of room to do this. If you have one of the newer more typical steel grate grids your SOL on this. One more reason I don't like that style of grid. 


@rochem, I thought about the angle iron as well. Was considering doing that or some type of square. Did you have any issue spreading the basket when putting the pipe through? That is my only real issue there.


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## rochem (May 7, 2016)

Footer said:


> @rochem, I thought about the angle iron as well. Was considering doing that or some type of square. Did you have any issue spreading the basket when putting the pipe through? That is my only real issue there.



Not really. It was years ago, but I believe the angle was fairly small - something like 1/8" thick 1"x1" angle, cut to 6" long or so? So it wasn't very large. I would usually just lift the pipe and rotate it 90° (so the angle iron was running vertically), and it would easily fit through the basket, then rotate the pipe back to normal and lay it in place.


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## BillConnerFASTC (May 7, 2016)

Footer said:


> I have a 1100# concentrated load allowed on each channel iron of my grid. Last summer we doubled the steel that runs SL/SR from the wells that supports the channel iron to 2'6" centers. Plenty of room to do this. If you have one of the newer more typical steel grate grids your SOL on this. One more reason I don't like that style of grid.
> 
> 
> @rochem, I thought about the angle iron as well. Was considering doing that or some type of square. Did you have any issue spreading the basket when putting the pipe through? That is my only real issue there.



That spacing we would do it. Very short span. 5-6' is more typical and working on one now that's nearly 11'. Kind of like a trampoline.

I dislike bar grate grids and catwalks. And generally more expensive than channels, so not hard to sell.


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## What Rigger? (May 8, 2016)

The Sapsis devices are all over the grid at one of my venues for just this application. Granted, this venue may be operating on a larger budget than most.


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## gafftapegreenia (May 11, 2016)

Some creation containing pieces of unistut beam clamps, muffler u bolts and/or j bolts is percolating in my head but I don't have an exact solution yet. 


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## nathanras (May 11, 2016)

at the theater I work in we use 3" x 3" square tube 3/16 wall (I think) about 8 foot long. we simply pull up the point with a span set attached and slide the square tube through and set it down. between the length and the square shape it doesn't go anywhere. same thing should work for you just make sure that the tubing is perpendicular to the channel for best weight distribution.


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## AlexDonkle (May 28, 2016)

BillConnerASTC said:


> I dislike bar grate grids and catwalks. And generally more expensive than channels, so not hard to sell.



Really? I'd heard bar grating being cheaper was one of the main reasons it's become more common than channels in recent theatres? (No field welding, and lighter weight). As pointed out in this post though, channels definitely have some clear advantages, just didn't think price was one of them.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 1, 2016)

It may vary regionally but the cost of fabrication of bar grate seems to surpass the savings in tonnage.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 1, 2016)

As an aside, bar grate catwalks are the worse, what doesn't fall thru them (a tiny screw when changing an outlet) seems to get stuck just so and needs to be carefully manipulated to retrieve (like a c wrench on a lanyard or a stage pin plug). Also it's super painful to kneel on. 


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 2, 2016)

When faced we with bar grate catwalks , I try to get plywood laid over it for the reasons noted. Sometimes carpet.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 2, 2016)

So as for the grid problem. We use what we call "elephant bars". They're a 40" chunk of 3"x3" 3/16" box tube. We weld a plate on the end. We're making a few more today and I'll post pics when complete. 


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 2, 2016)

Here's a pic. The holes at the end are for a safety cable.



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## Dover (Jun 2, 2016)

If you are still looking for a clamp, try a Korns clamp. They are meant to secure conduit to the bottom of beams and are quite sturdy. 
It might be a bit of a pain to tighten the bolts if you use it upside down but you could replace the U bolt with bolts and some sort of bridge and tighten it from the top.


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## Footer (Jun 2, 2016)

Dover said:


> If you are still looking for a clamp, try a Korns clamp. They are meant to secure conduit to the bottom of beams and are quite sturdy.
> It might be a bit of a pain to tighten the bolts if you use it upside down but you could replace the U bolt with bolts and some sort of bridge and tighten it from the top.



Thats it right there. That and two anchor bolts w/ knobs. Done. http://www.mcmaster.com/#hook-bolts/=12omvk4


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 2, 2016)

Dover said:


> If you are still looking for a clamp, try a Korns clamp. They are meant to secure conduit to the bottom of beams and are quite sturdy.
> It might be a bit of a pain to tighten the bolts if you use it upside down but you could replace the U bolt with bolts and some sort of bridge and tighten it from the top.



Nice. Basically the same thing I was thinking except with a muffler clamp.



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## Footer (Aug 1, 2016)

Ok, here is what I came up with: 



And on the grid... (will be space way farther apart, this was just a test....)



Its a 1 1/2" rigid conduit clip, 1/2" x 5" hold down bolt, and a knob w/ brass insert. Still playing with the number of spacers. A 3/4" spacer is the sweet spot so the knob does not hit the conduit clip... I only bought 1/2". They go on pretty quick and hold very tight. Our grid is 3"x1.5" channel iron. First show we get to try them on is next week. Sure beats the hell out of trying to lash them down.


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## John Palmer (Aug 1, 2016)

What about using either a piece of flat stock, tube, or shallow unistrut to span between the two clamps below the spacer or instead of the spacer? It would make it harder for a part to fall between the ribbons, and ensure that two clamps are always used.
My $.02, but keep in mind, I'm an LD.
JP


Footer said:


> And on the grid... (will be space way farther apart, this was just a test....)
> 
> 
> 
> Its a 1 1/2" rigid conduit clip, 1/2" x 5" hold down bolt, and a knob w/ brass insert. Still playing with the number of spacers. A 3/4" spacer is the sweet spot so the knob does not hit the conduit clip... I only bought 1/2". They go on pretty quick and hold very tight. Our grid is 3"x1.5" channel iron. First show we get to try them on is next week. Sure beats the hell out of trying to lash them down.


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## RickR (Aug 1, 2016)

I second the vote for a safety of some kind. 

Maybe a 2 hole plate below the spacer and a short fixture safety? I'd hate to drill the clamp itself. Even a hunk of tie line under the knob would be better than nothing.


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## rochem (Aug 2, 2016)

Looks great Footer! Without knowing how your theatre operates, is it necessary for the clips that you've made to be independent from eachother and the pipe? It would seem to be safer and faster to semi-permanently attach the clips to lengths of pipe, then you can easily place the pipe where you need it to go, rotate the hook underneath the grid slats, and tighten down. This means you only have one unit of hardware to worry about, rather than needing to deal with three loose pieces, and also eliminates the possibility of dropping anything through the grid. You may still need to move the clamps around, especially when working in close proximity to obstructions like blocks or walls, but having the hooks being able to stay attached to the pipe as you move it would seem to be a big advantage.


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 3, 2016)

rochem said:


> Looks great Footer! Without knowing how your theatre operates, is it necessary for the clips that you've made to be independent from eachother and the pipe? It would seem to be safer and faster to semi-permanently attach the clips to lengths of pipe, then you can easily place the pipe where you need it to go, rotate the hook underneath the grid slats, and tighten down. This means you only have one unit of hardware to worry about, rather than needing to deal with three loose pieces, and also eliminates the possibility of dropping anything through the grid. You may still need to move the clamps around, especially when working in close proximity to obstructions like blocks or walls, but having the hooks being able to stay attached to the pipe as you move it would seem to be a big advantage.



Does there exist a batten clamp that'll fit 2" Sch. 80?


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## RickR (Aug 4, 2016)

JR Clancy http://jrclancy.com/pipeclamps.asp has various sizes including 2.5" The two part design has enough flexibility to go ID or OD.


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