# Do you use protection?



## erosing (Jul 8, 2010)

We've discussed music in the shop but unless I missed it we haven't really discussed hearing protection in the shop.

Thinking back to college I remember it not being a big concern, there was no policy against it, but no one really recommended or even really suggested it. But I was talking to a member today and they mentioned that the shop will begin enforcing hearing protection, I thought that was great to hear (pun intended).

I grew up with my father being very stringent towards hearing protection, if anyone was in the shop the tools went off until the hearing protection went on. But that quickly left my head because we certainly didn't concern ourselves with it in high school, and not really in college. Over the last two years I've become more observant of when I should probably be wearing it, and do so. But to me it's still not a first thought, like safety glasses (just to be clear, I always wear my safety glasses, metal slivers suck), just never got in the habit, working on it though. 

I've only seen a few people ever be very hardcore about hearing protection. I'm curious how you guys do it, and especially curious if policies have changed in colleges. Do you use hearing protection? Does your shop/venue require it? Does your college require it? Other?


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## rochem (Jul 8, 2010)

I gotta say, I'm very disappointed that you started a thread entitled "Do you use protection?" and didn't make a single off-color joke... 

But to add my input: the summer stock theatre where I currently work doesn't require it, but they do require that hearing protection be offered and available whenever it might be needed. We have a large box in our shop with new 3M disposable hearing protection packages, and whenever someone is going to be doing something loud, the call goes out and anyone who wishes to can go over and grab hearing protection. I don't work in the shop very often, but they also do this when working onstage. If the carps are going to be using something that makes a lot of noise, they offer hearing protection to anyone working on stage at the time. But as far as I'm aware, it's not required at all.


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## gafftaper (Jul 8, 2010)

I voted three times. 
I use it at home by my own choice... got one of those radio/headsets for mowing the lawn. 
We use it at the college theater and it's a rule.
I voted "other" because it's MY RULE and I enforce it. 

No, one cut on the saw isn't a big deal... it's a tiny amount of damage. But it adds up and it adds up quickly. You guys who always have your iPod earbuds in cranked up to full... you'll regret it when you are 40 and can't hear your children. My Dad worked all through his 20's and 30's in a factor job. By 45 he was partially deaf. 85 Decibels is the level that you begin to do damage. It's also not NEARLY as loud as you might think it is. Be informed and make good choices. Being lazy about hearing protection now is a choice that you will regret for the last 50 years of your life.


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## Footer (Jul 8, 2010)

I pretty much live in either these... 




or these...

Amazon.com: AO Safety 99014 Blockade Noise Isolating Earbuds: Home Improvement


I work alone in the shop fairly often so those are a must to keep me from going insane. 

With anyone that works with me I do supply hearing and eye protection. Eye protection is mandatory because I don't want to clean up the mess or do the paperwork. Hearing protection is their own deal. I supply it, you should be adult enough to wear it. When I taught it was mandatory.


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## MrsFooter (Jul 8, 2010)

Who do you think you are, that's strictly between Footer and myself! I mean, why don't you just ask me my weight while you're at it!

Oh, you mean _hearing_ protection... Sorry...

Since working at a roadhouse that often does music shows, I've started carrying earplugs with me at all times. Some of the rock shows are so loud! (Ahem...Tragically Hip.) And while my livelihood doesn't rely on my being able to hear, I prefer to not be deaf. It's just a thing I have. I've actually even started carrying them around in my purse for those occasions when life gets super loud: certain movies, air shows, the fireworks last week. It's just more comfortable.


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## erosing (Jul 8, 2010)

rochem said:


> I gotta say, I'm very disappointed that you started a thread entitled "Do you use protection?" and didn't make a single off-color joke...



I thought about it, but I knew someone (see below) else would do it better than I would have at the moment (I was shooting blanks ). 


MrsFooter said:


> Who do you think you are, that's strictly between Footer and myself! I mean, why don't you just ask me my weight while you're at it!
> 
> Oh, you mean _hearing_ protection... Sorry...



Much, much better than I could have done.


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## ruinexplorer (Jul 8, 2010)

The question also comes in, are you using the right protection and do you know how to put it on/in? Depending on what work you are doing could require different hearing protection. Also, quickly shoving the buds into your ear may or may not create the seal needed to give you the proper protection, so make sure that you read the instructions (that means the guys as well).

If you are in a paid position, your employer should provide you with the proper PPE for your work. OSHA does cover what PPE is required for different environments. Your employer should be aware of this, try asking them. Also, since hearing damage is cumulative, it is difficult to claim for workman's compensation, unless you have a baseline test when you start working for an employer and have regular checkups.

Here's a quick poster for proper insertion and position.


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## ajb (Jul 8, 2010)

Footer said:


> I pretty much live in either these...



This, although mine are a bit different--silicone plugs that go a bit further into the ear, and a design that allows them to be worn in any position (under the chin, top of the head, or behind the neck). So much nicer to the ear canals and easier to insert properly than foam plugs, easier to deal with than muffs, and compatible with any other PPE I might need. 

EDIT: aha! here's what I have: Jackson Safety 3000460


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## Sony (Jul 9, 2010)

We require ear protection at the school when using any power tools other than a cordless drill. Everything else requires ear protection, saws, routers, angle grinders, etc... 

I find wearing ear protection makes it easier for me to do work, it's quieter and I can concentrate better when I don't have this pounding feeling in my head.


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## NickVon (Jul 9, 2010)

Sony said:


> We require ear protection at the school when using any power tools other than a cordless drill. Everything else requires ear protection, saws, routers, angle grinders, etc...
> 
> I find wearing ear protection makes it easier for me to do work, it's quieter and I can concentrate better when I don't have this pounding feeling in my head.


 
For myself, It's the Pitch of things like Table saw's and Routers that bother me. I'm fine with loud concert music and such, but the continous high pitch of shop tools is why i keep a pair of ear protection in my bag.


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## bishopthomas (Jul 9, 2010)

Not only do I wear earplugs when working with power tools, I also wear them while riding the subway, attending concerts (doesn't happen very often anymore), running lights, any type of stage work, and mixing monitors (on loud stages and after everyone is happy). I have custom molds and they do a pretty good job of letting me sleep on trains when drunk girls are jabbering and babies are screaming.


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## gafftaper (Jul 9, 2010)

NickVon said:


> For myself, It's the Pitch of things like Table saw's and Routers that bother me. I'm fine with loud concert music and such, but the continous high pitch of shop tools is why i keep a pair of ear protection in my bag.


Of course you realize your ears don't care about pitch. They can go deaf just as easily with big subwoofer notes at a concert as they can with high pitched shop tools. All that matters is the dB level and the amount of exposure. 


ajb said:


> EDIT: aha! here's what I have: Jackson Safety 3000460


Hey those look nice. I've been looking to replace my current set. I think I'll just order those.
Although these with gel pads look cool too. Maybe I'll order one of each.


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## zuixro (Jul 9, 2010)

The rule in the shop here is eyes for drills, ears and eyes for any other power tool or hammer. Whether we actually wear them? That depends... I'm usually pretty good about wearing them (except for with the drill, that just seems kinda silly). If it's like 4am and we've been there since rehearsal ended at 10, almost no one wears them. Right now I just wear the shop provided ear muff ones, but I'm gonna get my own in ear ones soon. (The shop bought them for us a while back, but someone took mine)


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## FMEng (Jul 10, 2010)

You can permanently ruin your hearing in an instant, or you can harm it a little at a time over many years without realization until it is too late. The thing about noise exposure is that it is, to a degree, cumulative over a life time. Don't screw with your hearing! A little care by using hearing protection will pay dividends for your whole life. 

I cringe every time I walk past someone, and I can hear their Ipod playing from several feet away. It is so easy to reach harmful levels without realizing it and they probably do it for hours at a time. People that do that will be using hearing aids before they reach 40 years old. Driving at highway speeds with the car windows open is another action that will do damage in a hurry.


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## derekleffew (Jul 10, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> Of course you realize your ears don't care about pitch. They can go deaf just as easily with big subwoofer notes at a concert as they can with high pitched shop tools. All that matters is the dB level and the amount of exposure. ...


Not exactly. The frequency content of the noise is indeed a factor. See Occupational noise exposure. - 1910.95.


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## masterelectrician2112 (Jul 10, 2010)

MrsFooter said:


> I've actually even started carrying them around in my purse for those occasions when life gets super loud: certain movies, air shows, the fireworks last week. It's just more comfortable.



Wow. I guess I am not the only one who tries to protect his ears during fireworks. I used to wear full hearing protection during fireworks, but now I just hold my ears. I also wear it at most concerts I go to. I have the radio muffs for loud yardwork, and I can also hook up my ipod to those. During tech theatre work, however, I rarely wear hearing protection. I have never really thought about wearing it then either. I should, though.


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## ajb (Jul 10, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> Although these with gel pads look cool too. Maybe I'll order one of each.


I actually had those before I found the Jackson Safety ones I linked. They worked okay and were comfortable enough, but the band broke before I got much use out of them. The Jackson pair have held up MUCH longer, even after a number of occasions of getting caught and yanked. I think I've had them about 4 or 5 years at this point with almost daily use, and just now starting to have one of the plugs tear--and even then that's actually a consequence of a cat sinking his teeth into it at some point. They've far outlived the MSA pair and a couple other similar ones I tried, so I'd strongly recommend them over anything else.


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## BrockTucker (Jul 10, 2010)

Just wanted to thank the OP, because of this thread I finally bought hearing protection for myself and got disposable plugs for the volunteers in my theater. Been thinking about it for a while, now it's done.


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## shiben (Jul 10, 2010)

Arez said:


> I thought about it, but I knew someone (see below) else would do it better than I would have at the moment (I was shooting blanks ).


 

Was this intentionally off color?


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## Anvilx (Jul 10, 2010)

Hearing protection is a personal choice for me, unlike most of the folks at my school.


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## howlingwolf487 (Jul 11, 2010)

I own a pair of Etymotic ER-15 custom-molded earplugs and carry them in my pocket pretty much wherever I go. They've saved my hearing a number of times, and make it easy to find the sweet spot on guitar amps and drums (just stick your head right there and have them play a little).

I also own a pair of muffs (MSA, I think) that I take when I'm afraid of very loud levels for long periods of time (raves, etc.). They, along with the ER-15s, work just fine for anything I care to expose myself and others to.

Hearing doesn't grow back...be wise and protect it. Cochlear implants are getting better, but why not conserve what hearing you already have?

On another note, enjoy this heartwarming video.


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## gafftaper (Jul 26, 2010)

Well after reading this thread I ordered a set of These and a set of These. 

Both are very comfortable with gel tips. For me and my ears at least, the first set is a better fit, there's a slight curve to the tips and the tips are a little smaller so they go in really deep for an instant tight and quiet fit. Only $5.02 each, the only negative is that the headband is just a little too short and so they fit a little more tight than I would prefer around my neck. The second set is a little longer around the neck which I like. They also achieve a nice quiet fit, but they take a little time to settle into my ears. I'll use both, but the first pair will probably be my go to for the shop. I'll report back when I've had a chance to wear them all day on a project.


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## venuetech (Jul 27, 2010)

I just turn my hearing aids off.


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## museav (Jul 27, 2010)

derekleffew said:


> Not exactly. The frequency content of the noise is indeed a factor. See Occupational noise exposure. - 1910.95.


OSHA uses A weighted levels, which does apply a frequency based weighting to the measurement. The sad thing is that almost everyone agrees that it is not a good approach as A-weighting is really only applicable at much lower levels than those being referenced in OSHA, for which C-weighting would actually be much more appropriate. However, the A-weighting is just so entrenched that it is not going to change.

The common misconception resulting from this is that low frequencies do not affect hearing loss or damage. Low frequency noise levels can indeed impact hearing loss or damage.

What I find funny is when people try to apply OSHA to churches, concerts, etc. Ignoring the technical issues, OSHA is addressing noise and noise is by definition unwanted sound. So anyone applying OSHA to theatres, worship spaces an so on is basically implying that the related sound is unwanted.


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## JBrennan (Jul 27, 2010)

I wear it whenever possible and convenient since I am in the shop 8 hours or more a day. Only 1 theatre I've worked in required it to be worn when working in the shop. Here, I tell students it's available and very good idea because the damage builds up quickly even if they are just volunteering for a few days, but it's not mandatory. 

I've been looking at buying a few pairs of these Etymotic Research, Inc. - ER for a few weeks and think I'll order a pair now. I like that they attenuate pretty evenly over all frequencies rather than just stamp out all noise. Some reviews I've read on hear say they make it easier to hear people talking in the shop without having to pop them in and out all the time.


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## Wolf (Jul 27, 2010)

JBrennan said:


> I've been looking at buying a few pairs of these Etymotic Research, Inc. - ER for a few weeks and think I'll order a pair now. I like that they attenuate pretty evenly over all frequencies rather than just stamp out all noise. Some reviews I've read on hear say they make it easier to hear people talking in the shop without having to pop them in and out all the time.



Now are those much different from these Amazon.com: Peltor 97079 Combat Arms Earplugs: Home Improvement? They seem similar and are pretty much the same price but I haven't looked at hearing protection before this thread... A few days before this thread started I worked a concert and it way too loud for the venue... I went out the next day and got some foam ear plugs, but one of these seem like they would work MUCH better.


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## zuixro (Jul 28, 2010)

Does anyone use these in the shop:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015WJQ66/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I saw several people recommended them in another thread, but they were referring to "too loud concert" situations. I'd like some that I could just put on and wear all day, and not have to take them off to talk to people. (which is what I've read those are good for)


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## JBrennan (Aug 2, 2010)

Wolf, they do look similar to me, not sure if the inside guts make a big difference or not. I got mine in last week and so far so good. It's pretty impressive how good everything sounds with them in. Not muffled at all just like someone turned the volume down on the world.

Most things don't seem dramatically quieter but I think thats just in comparison to using the big all encompassing ear protection that really snuffs out everything.


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## erosing (Aug 2, 2010)

zuixro said:


> Does anyone use these in the shop:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015WJQ66/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER



I've used similar ones, but not exactly that brand. I like the style they are very light. I also find them to be fairly comfortable especially in comparison to foam models, it feels less jammed in your ear and more "elegantly placed." I have also found that they don't loosen up or fall out like the cheaper disposable foam ones.

I just picked up these last week and they seem to work well; even though they are foam they seem to stay in place well, but the band gets in the way depending on how you wear them. Bench grinder sure was a lot tamer though.


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## Steele (Aug 11, 2010)

It is so easy to prevent a lifetime of "What did you say?" I don't know why anyone would not were hearing protection.


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