# Fire procedure



## backstageguy (Mar 9, 2007)

Hiya guys,
I'm a stage manager at my school and the director of our theatre is presently attempting to change the way we would deal with a potential fire. As he is more of an actor than a technician, I would like to get a more technical opinion on this.
Our theatre has aproximatley 160 seats, and is part of one of our school buildings, apart from the rooms we use as our dressing rooms, the block has roughly 13 other classrooms. The plan of our director is for ever show to turn off the sounders for our fire alarm and instead rely on the small beacon we are going to install in our tech booth. In the event of the beacon going off 
our technical director is going to go downstairs into the foyer where our fire control panel is, find out the zone of the possible fire, then return to the tech booth where our sound technician will make an announcement saying "mr sands is in XandX location" and from this the FOH team will decide on the safest route to
evacuate the audience.
Ok, well my problems start with this, our Fire Officer is very strict and so considering that someone could have sneaked into one of the 13 rooms, I dont think he will allow us to silence the sounders which in many cases is understandable. Ok so assuming we were allowed to go ahead with the plan, during a show, a small blinking light is extremely likely to just not be noticed and overlooked, the next problem I can see is that the TD is going to have to run down stairs and work out what zone this 'fire' is in, at this stage, he would be closer to the FOH managment then the actual tech booth, so it would seem more sensible to just go straight to the FOH manager and tell them where the fire is. However in line with the plan, our guy returns and tells the sound technician who then procedes to make his announcement. Next problem is that the actors will still be unaware of whats going on, and so the FOH person will have to struggle to hear a muffled anouncement from someone running sound whilst actors are speaking over them.

Basically I would like to see some other people's opinions, I know I've been a bit biased there, but I just think the standard procedure of a SM going and making an announcement would work much better?
Thanks for all your help and opinions.


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## Van (Mar 9, 2007)

Disabling the sounders is an extremely moronic, no offense intended. What is he thinking ? "Oh I don't want to interupt the show."? I feel, your fire panel should be tied into the "Panic" circuit of your dimmers when and alarm is triggered this automatically brings all circuits to full, which is a good indicator to the actors onstage, that there is a problem. You should have reporters, <strobes and alarms> on stage as well. You should also have a well developed evacuation plan monitored by the stage manager, and Adult Supervisor of any activity. For help in developing this plan visit
www.ready.gov


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## Footer (Mar 9, 2007)

It many states, it is the responsibility of the house manager to point out the exits in the event of a fire or other emergency before the show even starts. If there is a fire, there should be no human interaction in getting the audience out. If a fire is detected, the fire alarm should go off, and typical escape routes should be used. Period. The alarm should NEVER be silenced unless it is being silenced by the fire department. If an alarm goes off, get out of the building. If you have a fire curtain and the fire is on stage, pull the fire curtain and get out. If you need escape plans, that is the responsibility of the health and safety officers of your school along with the fire marshal. Most venues have plans in place if a fire occurs, such as everyone FOH helps get the patrons out, all stage crew makes sure that everyone backstage is out, etc... My personal rule, unless the fire is small enough to stop with one fire extinguishers, I will not even attempt to go at it, I get the hell out.


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## gafftaper (Mar 9, 2007)

If the local fire department inspector found out you were shutting off the alarms in the theater he would shut down your production. Don't do it. Like everyone else said, there should be no decision process or human interaction. The alarm goes off and everyone leaves. The only human judgment call is where to restart the show *after* the fire department declares the building safe to re-enter. 

Does your theater director actually think that you can keep the show running in the front half of the building while the back half is burning?!?!?! There's this stuff called smoke that travels down hall ways and kills people. He might want to look it up. 

If they have half a brain your school administration and or custodial/maintenance people should shut this "brilliant" idea down quick.


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## jwl868 (Mar 9, 2007)

Don't disable the alarms (sorry to belabor the point.) Imagine the headline. 

Bad plan anyway - what if the fire/smoke traps off the director from the booth after he gets to the panel? Or he succumbs before he gets to it?

Joe


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## What Rigger? (Mar 10, 2007)

Two words: GREAT. WHITE.
Two more: THE. STATION.


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## soundlight (Mar 10, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Station_nightclub_fire

NEVER disable fire equipment. The strobes, sirens, and house lights should all activate in the case of a pull station being pulled.


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## ricc0luke (Mar 10, 2007)

i know i am just sounding like a broken record, but that is a horribly stupid idea for a school.

i mean, its stupid for other reasons too, but the bottom line is you really can't do that.


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## Van (Mar 10, 2007)

I miss stated something earlier, the word I was looking for was "Anunciator" not reporter. Sorry, brain fart. A lot of systems have littel speakers built into the strobe light mounts and a pre-recorded voice comes on and says something like " Alert, a fire alarm has triggered. please proceed to the nearest emergency exit." Course I was in an exhibit hall once when some riggers set off a smoke alarm. 4,000 Nike employees wandering around all over the place completely oblivious to what those flashing light were, and you couldn't here the announcement over the sound of the crowd. 

BTW I'd love to hear your directors justificiation for disabliing the alarm system in the first place. I just can't figure that one out.


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## gafftaper (Mar 10, 2007)

Van said:


> BTW I'd love to hear your directors justificiation for disabliing the alarm system in the first place. I just can't figure that one out.



That's easy Van... The show must go on!! I don't care if the back half of the building is on fire, the front half looks fine to me.


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## Van (Mar 11, 2007)

gafftaper said:


> That's easy Van... The show must go on!! I don't care if the back half of the building is on fire, the front half looks fine to me.


 
I'm afraid you might be right.


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## What Rigger? (Mar 11, 2007)

Van, you're getting to be my hero. Sometimes in this world, it's good to know that I'm not the only hard-ass about safety. 

And yeah, if I had a nickel for every director who says "It'll be fine. I'll take responsibility." Well, I wouldn't need to gig for the Mouse anymore.


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## DarSax (Mar 11, 2007)

Yeah pretty much what everyone has said-DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! We always do an announcement about where the exits are located; they're lit like in theaters as well, anyways.


My question is though, what's with "Mr. Sands?" Is that like, theater code for "oh snap theres a fire, lets use code so the audience won't know?"


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## backstageguy (Mar 11, 2007)

Hiya,

Thanks for all of your responses, and I'm glad to see that you all agree its a ridiculous idea as well. The justification for it all, returns to the idea of don't panic the audience. Like in bigger theatres where you have like about 1000 audience members, where you have to ensure they aren't panicked so as to prevent a stampede for the exits. He kind of has his head in the clouds and his aim behind it all is to make everything 'more professional' (yeah...right).

The Mr Sands thing, is basically to let the FOH people know, so that they can then react without panicking the audience, in reality when a fire alarm last went off during a show, there was no stampede and everyone walked out happily and without any real panic. In some of the bigger theatres I have been to, I have known them use a similar system, but only in the backstage areas, so an announcement on intercom like:
"Mr Sands is in the building" would mean a possible fire, but they wouldn't actually evacuate until a potential fire had been inspected, and this would be announced backstage by a:
"Mr Sands is leaving the building." Which when you have a fully fledged fire crew, security team, and someone sitting at Stage Door constantly monitoring the fire panel, might be fine but in a school I agree that it is innappropriate.


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## Chris15 (Mar 11, 2007)

Now now now. There are SOME instances whereby the EWIS could be put into modified behaivour. (Sorry, I'm using the jargon I'm used to. Ask me to explain it if need be.) BUT, let me put it simply. I severely doubt that you will EVER be in a position to do this in a school or community theatre or the like. It is done in large venues that have 24/7 security control rooms who are immediately notified of the location of any fire alarm. These places can set their EWIS into a so called performance mode which I believe does not trigger audible sounders in the theatres. This is then coupled with TRAINED staff and DOCUMENTED procedures. When they make the call to evacuate, it gets down in a calm and controlled manner by people who know what to do. There are properly trained fire wardens and by the time that the theatres start to be evacuated, the fire brigade will be halfway there. Not to mention systems such as sprinklers cutting in. And these places do isolate the fire alarms where appropriate for specific performances, but this goes hand in hand with the trained people and what not. They may have the automatic alarms off because of fog or the like, but by George, if there is a fire, then that place will get evacuated and the fire alarm set off manually.

Oh and as for the jargon that is meant to leave the crowd in the dark, down here it is that the General Manager is required in the Green Room as prepare to evacuate and the General Manager to the Red Bar to go to a full scale evacuation. That would lead FOH to open all the exits and for an announcement to be made from the stage that technical difficulties are being experienced and to evacuate via the nearest exit.

So, unless you have trained people who are solely assigned to fire type duties, there is NO grounds to allow an EWIS system to essentially be disabled.

And Rigger, I too take a hard line on Safety and hope that the above statements do not contradict that.


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## gafftaper (Mar 11, 2007)

It really simply comes down to your local fire code laws. You'll find that the systems like Chris is discussing above do exist but have very specific fire department training and approval to operate that way. There is NO WAY your local fire department will ever go along with the drama teacher deciding to shut off the alarm. 

As far as audience panic is concerned, it's a school. Everyone remembers the endless fire drills and prank fire alarm pulls. No one is going to panic because of a fire alarm in a school. They are going to assume its a drill or mistake because that is what they are used to. You might want have a pre-written calm announcement ready to go that someone can jump on a mic and read but that's it. 

Now if you were in my old high school little theater it wouldn't be a problem. Half way through my time teaching there someone in the maintenance department decided the old alarm wasn't good enough. They replaced it with an alarm that blasts at what must be well over 120 decibels (130? 140? 150?). Students would cover their ears and room from the room screaming, hoping their brains wouldn't explode. No problem clearing that space out.


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## rapscaLLion (Mar 12, 2007)

I work in a professional theatre that seats 1500 at capacity over three levels (half in orchestra, and a quarter each on lower and upper balcony). There are the usual exits at the back and two fire escapes on each side of the auditiorium on each level (for a total of 12 fire escapes plus the usual entrance/exits). The fire escapes lead directly outside onto metal stairways to street level, and can be dangerous for women in high heels because of the spacing of the metal grates. We do not allow exit from these doors of course except in emergency.

Here is the important difference between our professional theatre and your small high school (and you can tell your director this):
You likely use a single stage alarm, while we use a two stage alarm. In first stage, the FOH crew has five minutes to locate and verify the existance of a fire, and determine how to best proceed. Evacuation is dangerous and only used if entirely necessary (and has never been done in any of our company's three theatres as far back as anyone can remember). During first stage the ONLY indication of a fire alarm inside the auditorium is a small flashing light in the orchestra pit so they are prepped to evac if necessary. Otherwise the show goes on, and ushers on break return to their duty positions. In-house ushers are notified via our radio headsets of first stage alarm.

Beyond that, nothing happens. If the FOH manager determines that evac is necessary, she notifies the ushers and uses the building wide annunciator to inform the audience. From there the fire alarm advances to second stage, with full building alarm, e-lights, all the doors in the building close automatically, and some lock from one direction to prevent patron's going anywhere but out. It's all very complicated, and we are regularly drilled on it as well as checking every fire escape before the house opens, etc. This is how the system was designed and how it is professionally maintained. Certainly not for a school to attempt! There's just no need when the small audience is seated on a single level with easy access to safe exits.

Hope that helps!


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## Chris15 (Mar 12, 2007)

Oh, and I left one other thing out. The complex systems I mentioned earlier are almost guaranteed to cost an arm and a leg. So that almost instantly puts it out of reach of most schools.


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## tenor_singer (Mar 12, 2007)

What is concerning me here is that your director is talking with you guys about fire procedure. As a student in a high school, the only "procedure" you should be aware of is what door to go out of if the school's fire alarm goes off. The typical high school student lacks the training for anything beyond evacuation. Heck... I've been teaching for 15 years and have never been trained about fire procedures other than get your kids out safely and quickly. As far as the audience knowing where to go, that should be taken care of with a pre-show announcement... "please proceed camly to the exits in the front and the rear of the auditorium" type of statement.

Somebody needs to let the administration know that this person is pondering this foolish move. Unplug the alarms??!!?? What the heck.


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## dvlasak (Mar 14, 2007)

Not to belabor the point, but as students, do not allow this so called teacher to put your lives or the lives of anyone else in danger. Not only will the AHJ have a major problem with this plan, so will the school's insurance carrier. In some cases, just calling the insurance carrier will be able to get the problem solved. I can't believe that if you calmly talked to the "teacher" about your concerns, he wouldn't see the error of his ways. Perhaps bring up your concerns to the Dept. Chair or the Principal.
There are several resources that I think can help you. One is Dr. Randall Davidson (known in the industry as Dr. Doom).  You can reach him through his company Risk International and Associates. (http://www.riskit.com). He is VERY willing to help out, especially in school situations.
Another resource is the International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA). this is a group that was formed to help those in schools with safety concerns. The website (www.isetsa.org) does not appear to be working - I'll have to talk with Doom about that!

PLEASE do not allow this person to put any automatic alarm in a bypass mode!!

Dennis


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## dvlasak (Mar 14, 2007)

Another resource is Doom's new book.
Practical Health and Safety Guidelines
for School Theater Operations Assessing the Risks in Middle, Junior and Senior High School Theater Buildings and Programs 

I believe that everyone should have a copy on their shelves. It is a great resource on the topic of theare safety for all spaces - NOT JUST SCHOOLS!!

Find info on it at www.riskit.com or www.theaterhealthandsafetybook.com

Dennis


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## Edrick (Mar 22, 2007)

this reminds me of the only actual training the school system got on our theater. we were going over the fire relay shutoff, because of things exactly like this. he said people have waited for instructions by the theater and don't do anything until they get instructions even if the alarm goes off in some cases.

in the event of a fire on stage and the release of the fire curtain which does not have a break on it and is unbalanced to a degree that it comes down within the code requirement but not too fast, 

a) manual release via trigger on both sides of stage will set off a fire alarm by releasing a metal plate over a sensor unit up on the wall
b) release by thermal coupling, again setting off fire alarm.

and this last one i'm not 100% sure on but
c) i think they said in the event of an alarm being pulled in that zone it wll release the curtain. (just remebered we did get trained on the curtain system by B&E.

----

in the event of any methods of the fire alarm going off the system goes into panic mode and shuts down by the relay in the back / front rack thus we are not allowed to make any announcements, evacuate period. 

--- 

in the event of a fire the lighting system goes into panic mode bringing the lights back on.

the only way for us to stop the system from going off is to have the fire department there on site.


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## soundlight (Mar 23, 2007)

Now that's a good system.


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## astrotechie (Mar 23, 2007)

Rickblu said:


> b) release by thermal coupling, again setting off fire alarm.
> and this last one i'm not 100% sure on but


_One thing, the thermal coupling you are talking about is a meltable linkage and it will melt only at a temperature high enough that signals a fire.
And it is a good system but the fact is that is the code in the area to have such a system._


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## Edrick (Mar 23, 2007)

that's what i meant by a thermal coupling once it hits a tempature or above the melting point it breaks.


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## taylorjacobs (Mar 25, 2007)

as dumb as this system is...it almost makes sinse. i have personally been involved in setting of a fire alarm in various schools due to haze adn/or fog it would help prevent situations like that...but all in all safety comes first


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## Dcdjdrew (Mar 27, 2007)

At my theatre we have 2 systems combined into 1 the fist is a standard fire alarm system with the exception of the following the smoke detectors in the theatre can be switched to work of the rate of rise detector instead of smoke (only for productions with fog onstage ) at the fire alarm panel. If the fire alarm is activated by a detector the stage manager will have a strobe light flashing in front of them along with an audible buzzer and have 30 seconds to hit a go no go button, of the alarm is not acknowledged within 30 seconds the bulling takes over and makes a fire announcement over the PA and rises the house lights to full and 45 seconds later closes the fire curtain and if the temature at any of the rate of rise dectotors increases above 100 the curtain drencher will activate. The second system involves other emergencies Weather Power ect a battery operated system causes every 3rd house light to rise to full and the building will make an announcement about exiting the building or taking cover in the basement. It is fairly complex but works well.


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## Edrick (Mar 27, 2007)

i wish our fire alarm system talked for freaking 70 mill you'd think it would. you can manually talk over it and use it as a pa from the panel but it wont talk.


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## chrizEHS (Mar 28, 2007)

wow.I am don't think the insurance people or the fire marshal would like him messing with the alarm.
I just love it when people make things more complicated than they have to be. 
But some things aren't........ like fire
fire in a school = get out. 
tell its that simple 

Soory for sounding so redundant, but I just couldn't resist


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## gafftaper (Mar 29, 2007)

Don't miss this new thread over in lighting about a fire in a High School. 

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4944


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## cue1go (May 11, 2007)

Please consult your local fire marshall. In many places, disabling a fire detection system is illegal.


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## avkid (May 11, 2007)

cue1go said:


> Please consult your local fire marshall. In many places, disabling a fire detection system is illegal.


Not to mention irresponsible and likely to get your insurance company ticked off to no end.


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## Thranduil (May 13, 2007)

At the venue where I work we have a typical school fire system installed - it has a trouble mode and a alarm mode, and we have smoke heads all over. We also have a lazer in the house that makes a huge grid that if it cant talk to the other end of the grid, the alarm goes into trouble, and if staying there it goes into alarm after 1 minuet. This was installed after Modest Mouse lit a dressing room on fire, and the alarm didnt go off. 

Its comprehensive, and it goes off no matter what. However, when Primus wants to haze, they are going to anyway, so we have to disable the lasers(which we can do). With this, the fire department has to come make an inspection at some point before house, which often they dont mind because of the big name acts that come thorugh. The firedoor/curtian/skylights systems are all orgional with the building - stage left and right are ropes with knives next to them, and all the doors have thermal ropes and counterweights for their opening and closeing. 

Turning off a firealarm completely isn't just stupid, its down right dangerous. We all have moment where we are thinking about how the show is getting interupted, but it is far more important that everone is safe, than the show going on. The director is not a firemarshell. The director does not dictate firecode. Therefore, the director doesnt mess with the alarm. Its quite simple.


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## tomed101 (Jun 6, 2007)

Incidentally, today during a tech-run we set off the fire alarm with a fog machine. Big drama, fire dept within 4min (I was very impressed with the response time) and a $1000 fine, but the good thing is that we know that the system is doing its job and makes a hell of a noise when it goes off. Is there a fog/smoke fluid which does not set off smoke alarms? It is quite annoying not being able to use any fog. If there is and we get some, we will call the monitoring company and organize a test (so it doesn't cost another grand) Any ideas?


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## Chris15 (Jun 7, 2007)

You don't have the authority, means and procedures to arrange an isolation of sectors of the fire alarm?


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## tomed101 (Jun 7, 2007)

Chris15 said:


> You don't have the authority, means and procedures to arrange an isolation of sectors of the fire alarm?


We can except the system we have only supports short term isolating which has to be re-isolated very regularly. The administration want some information about different smoke/fire detectors if we cannot find a differnt fogger. Anyone know of a smoke/flame detector that will be immune to stage fog/smoke?


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## icewolf08 (Jun 7, 2007)

tomed101 said:


> We can except the system we have only supports short term isolating which has to be re-isolated very regularly. The administration want some information about different smoke/fire detectors if we cannot find a differnt fogger. Anyone know of a smoke/flame detector that will be immune to stage fog/smoke?



Actually, they are becoming a lot harder to find these days. As theatrical fog is a particulate in the air it behaves similar to smoke, thought the particle size is generally much smaller. The most common type of smoke detector that is tripped by fog is the photo-electric type. They are actually measuring the particle density in the air to determine weatehr to sound an alarm.

So, test away like you said, or find out if you can put a bag over the smoke detectors that cause the problems for you (provided that you only would do that during a show). Though it could have just been the fact that the Fire Marshall at my college let us do that because he was good friends with the staff.


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## Footer (Jun 7, 2007)

tomed101 said:


> We can except the system we have only supports short term isolating which has to be re-isolated very regularly. The administration want some information about different smoke/fire detectors if we cannot find a differnt fogger. Anyone know of a smoke/flame detector that will be immune to stage fog/smoke?



They can't tell the difference, nor would you want them to. Your best bet is to have the alarms shut off during a show, and then you would have to go into a firewatch. Basically, have one person standing around going "is there a fire, is there a fire, is there a fire....) and if there is they can pull an alarm/call the fire dept. Many times in many jurisdictions, the person doing the fire watch has to be a member of the fire dept.


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## avkid (Jun 7, 2007)

Footer4321 said:


> Many times in many jurisdictions, the person doing the fire watch has to be a member of the fire dept.


Chances are good that a volunteer firefighter will do this for free or some dinner and tickets for their family.


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## mixmaster (Sep 10, 2007)

THE FOLLOWING SUGGESTION IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!!! THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION!!! If this is a regular concern for you, you may be able to reach a compromise with the local fire authority and install heat detetector in place of smoke detectors. Completely turning off a fire alarm system is a violation of so many codes (read NFPA 72 for info on fire alarms and NFPA 110 for info on life safty systems as it applies to gathering places and public buildings) and such a leagal liability it should not even be considered. However, using heat detectors would eliminate false alarms from your fog and still maintain coverage of the area in question. THIS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE IN ACCORDANCE TO LOCAL CODES, BY A QUALIFIED FIRE ALRM TECHNICIAN, WITH APPROVAL FROM YOUR LOCAL FIRE MARSHAL, INSURACE CARRIER AND POSSIBLY OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS DEFINATLY NOT SOMETHING FOR A STUDENT TO DO, AT ALL, PERIOD. EXCLAIMATION POINT!!!!


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## Footer (Sep 10, 2007)

mixmaster said:


> THE FOLLOWING SUGGESTION IS FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES ONLY!!! THIS SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED AS ADVICE OR INSTRUCTION!!! If this is a regular concern for you, you may be able to reach a compromise with the local fire authority and install heat detetector in place of smoke detectors. Completely turning off a fire alarm system is a violation of so many codes (read NFPA 72 for info on fire alarms and NFPA 110 for info on life safty systems as it applies to gathering places and public buildings) and such a leagal liability it should not even be considered. However, using heat detectors would eliminate false alarms from your fog and still maintain coverage of the area in question. THIS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE IN ACCORDANCE TO LOCAL CODES, BY A QUALIFIED FIRE ALRM TECHNICIAN, WITH APPROVAL FROM YOUR LOCAL FIRE MARSHAL, INSURACE CARRIER AND POSSIBLY OTHER PEOPLE. THIS IS DEFINATLY NOT SOMETHING FOR A STUDENT TO DO, AT ALL, PERIOD. EXCLAIMATION POINT!!!!



Luckly for the world, the second a pair of dikes goes near a fire alarm cable and severs anything it goes off. And yes, heat detectors are a great thing, I'm of the feeling install both that way you can still have the smoke detectors but be able to shut them off when you are hazing, turn them back in at the end of the night.


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## Van (Sep 10, 2007)

Interesting timing. We just did a bunch of upgrades in our second stage. The Fire inspector is now ordering smoke dectors every 6 feet on the ceiling above the grid. I've suggested that the existing Heat dectoors should be sufficient. we're waiting on a ruling. It really blows me away. this new inspector is new to town, and apparently wants to make a name for himself as a real hardass. he even went so far as to infer that he would require us to sprinkler the entire building. Don't get me wrong, if you've read some of my posts you'll know that I'm very much in favor of fire safety, and have great respect for the inspection process, but for this new guy to walk into a building that has been re-permitted 4 times in the last 5 years, and he's the first one to even hint that the permit wouldn't go through unless the building was sprinkled? 
Our building is specifically designed with 4 hour corridors in all the exit ways, we have several times the legally required paths of exit. The parking garages are sprinkled because of the storage of flammables < cars> but it has never been suggested we sprinkle the rest. ....Whew!, Rant over.


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## SerraAva (Sep 11, 2007)

Know how you feel Van. Have experienced the same thing with fire marshals/inspectors in the past. Its mainly the new ones that try to get you on every little thing thats wrong. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for fire safety too. This is a safety first field of work with so many things that can seriously hurt or kill people. I just hate new fire marshals who try to bust you on every little thing just to make a point that, "Hey, I in charge now and I will bust you on something every time I come in." Don't think I have had a walk through once where a marshal hasn't busted us on something at a couple of different theaters.

A prime example is in my old high school's theater. There was a ladder going up into the ceiling to get to front of house lighting and to change house lights. The fire marshal made us make a steal door to block it. The reasoning being that if a fire started in the ceiling, smoke could come into the booth.

Well, first, if I'm in the ceiling focusing or changing house lights and a fire starts, I don't want to have to fight with a now HOT steal door to get down to safety. Second, right over the light board there is a grate ceiling tile for extra ventilation because with as many as 4 Super Troopers at anytime, it gets extremely hot up there.

So I guess the spot ops by the ladder can't die by smoke inhalation but the sound board and light board ops can?


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## Grog12 (Sep 12, 2007)

New Marshal always wants to be the hard ass.

We had a pyro demonstration once...several local marshals where in attendance...one of which was new to the job (I like to call her the blonde shrew but thats a different story). Anyway the pyro crew was showing off different types of pyro and as a grand finale were going to move outside to set off some sort of Napalm bomb. To which the new marshal freaked and tried to keep the demonstraters from doing. The other more expierenced marshals shrugged gave her dirty looks and said go ahead. (did I mention this was Vegas?)

As a side note...that was the coolest piece of pyro!


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## gafftaper (Sep 12, 2007)

Grog12 said:


> New Marshal always wants to be the hard ass.
> We had a pyro demonstration once...several local marshals where in attendance...one of which was new to the job (I like to call her the blonde shrew but thats a different story). Anyway the pyro crew was showing off different types of pyro and as a grand finale were going to move outside to set off some sort of Napalm bomb. To which the new marshal freaked and tried to keep the demonstraters from doing. The other more expierenced marshals shrugged gave her dirty looks and said go ahead. (did I mention this was Vegas?)
> As a side note...that was the coolest piece of pyro!



Well if it's Vegas I'm surprised you didn't mention the fire marshal was also drunk and half naked. My brother in-law lives there, it's unbelievable sometimes what they call government down there.


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## Grog12 (Sep 12, 2007)

gafftaper said:


> Well if it's Vegas I'm surprised you didn't mention the fire marshal was also drunk and half naked. My brother in-law lives there, it's unbelievable sometimes what they call government down there.


Every dept except fire department I'd agree with you.
Nevada has some of the most stringent fire code on the books. Especially with dealing with theatres...that early 80's MGM (now Bally's) fire caused the them to tighten up everything when it comes to fire saftey.


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## What Rigger? (Sep 16, 2007)

Grog12 said:


> New Marshal always wants to be the hard ass.
> We had a pyro demonstration once...several local marshals where in attendance...one of which was new to the job (I like to call her the blonde shrew but thats a different story). Anyway the pyro crew was showing off different types of pyro and as a grand finale were going to move outside to set off some sort of Napalm bomb. To which the new marshal freaked and tried to keep the demonstraters from doing. The other more expierenced marshals shrugged gave her dirty looks and said go ahead. (did I mention this was Vegas?)
> As a side note...that was the coolest piece of pyro!



DUDE! I know EXACTLY which fire marshall you're talking about. EVERYbody hates her, 'cause she is like you said, a total hard-***.
I gagged on my milk and cookies when I read your description. Thank you baby Jesus she's not here in SoCal now.
Viva Las Vegas!


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## SerraAva (Sep 17, 2007)

Things to remember when working in Vegas, thanks guys .


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## mixmaster (Sep 17, 2007)

Van said:


> Interesting timing. We just did a bunch of upgrades in our second stage. The Fire inspector is now ordering smoke dectors every 6 feet on the ceiling above the grid. I've suggested that the existing Heat dectoors should be sufficient. we're waiting on a ruling. It really blows me away. this new inspector is new to town, and apparently wants to make a name for himself as a real hardass. he even went so far as to infer that he would require us to sprinkler the entire building. Don't get me wrong, if you've read some of my posts you'll know that I'm very much in favor of fire safety, and have great respect for the inspection process, but for this new guy to walk into a building that has been re-permitted 4 times in the last 5 years, and he's the first one to even hint that the permit wouldn't go through unless the building was sprinkled?
> Our building is specifically designed with 4 hour corridors in all the exit ways, we have several times the legally required paths of exit. The parking garages are sprinkled because of the storage of flammables < cars> but it has never been suggested we sprinkle the rest. ....Whew!, Rant over.



Van, frustrating as it is, you won't be given an opportunity to not comply. I have been involved with the fire service as both a fireman and an alarm installer. As an installer, I know what a PITA a picky inspector can be, but as a fireman, I have seen what happens when codes are not enforced. For that matter, think of how many deaths we have seen in the last few years at nightclubs around the country when codes were ignored because they were "inconvenient". My advice, grin and bear it. You want to be on an inspectors good side. As he gets to know you and your facility as people who want to be safe and compliant he may loosen up. I've been in some places where inspections are big pissing matches and places like that tend to get shut down. Besides, not only is having a building safer, it may save you bunches on your insurance payments. I had a customer once who saved enough on his insurance payments over a couple of years to cover the cost of the sprinklers. Might be worth looking at.
Best of luck


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## Van (Sep 17, 2007)

mixmaster said:


> Van, frustrating as it is, you won't be given an opportunity to not comply. I have been involved with the fire service as both a fireman and an alarm installer. As an installer, I know what a PITA a picky inspector can be, but as a fireman, I have seen what happens when codes are not enforced. For that matter, think of how many deaths we have seen in the last few years at nightclubs around the country when codes were ignored because they were "inconvenient". My advice, grin and bear it. You want to be on an inspectors good side. As he gets to know you and your facility as people who want to be safe and compliant he may loosen up. I've been in some places where inspections are big pissing matches and places like that tend to get shut down. Besides, not only is having a building safer, it may save you bunches on your insurance payments. I had a customer once who saved enough on his insurance payments over a couple of years to cover the cost of the sprinklers. Might be worth looking at.
> Best of luck


 
I understand your point,however, it's not a matrter of complying with codes. We are in compliance. This just the interpretation of a single inspector, who's new. Believe me when I say, I understand fire issues. I've lived through a dorm fire, and was invovled in search and rescue for a long time. It's not a matter public safety, we're more than adequately covere there. It was merely a statement of frustration with one individual, new to the scene and eager to make a name.


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## Van (Sep 18, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> "Break the glass, Van!"
> "It won't break! Ouch, my hand!"
> "Kick it in, Van!"
> "It won't break! Ouch, my foot!"
> ...


 
It is funny, now, and luckily no one got hurt.
Scary at the time though.


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