# Charc's College Thread



## Charc (Mar 21, 2008)

So I figured I'd create a thread for my college stuff, similar to what I did with my internship, where I'll update it as I go along.

So yesterday I saw Oberlin, today I saw Case-Western, and tomorrow I'll take the campus tour and information session for Kenyon (though their theatre dept secretary declined to setup a time for me to meet with faculty/students).

After a one-day break I'll be going to Vassar, Wesleyan, and Skidmore.

(Let me preface this by saying I do not mean to bash anyone's alma mater here, so keep that in mind.)

Oberlin:
My initial impression of the campus was not favorable. The area was too flat/wet-landsy, I did not like the surrounding area as well. The college and I don't seem to be a good fit. As for their theatre dept, the same thing. Didn't seem like a good fit for me, but I did meet with a faculty member there. Doesn't look like a good option. (I can go indepth if anyone is curious, but I'm just jotting this down before dinner.)

Case-Western:
I really liked the college, it seemed like a nice place, there were some really appealing features. However, the theatre dept is quite small. As a word association I would throw out the word "limited". Doesn't look like a good option. A good option for Noah though: 6x6 Kliegls and scoops. Though I don't think Derek would like the faux FOH lighting positions.

Kenyon:
While I've yet to take the campus tour and information session I did just stumble onto campus not too long ago. They have two main theaters, the newer of the two is quite nice. Not to base anything on gear, but they had scrollers and I-cues in the air, but control was by an ETC Express. I did walk into the costume shop, find a Freshman, who showed me around, I talked with some design students and other theatre majors who were painting on stage. They said some cool stuff. The campus has a good feel, and I'm actually in the middle of it now. I'm looking forward to their spiel tomorrow.

Three more to come. Upenn in a week, and possibly Bucknell in a couple more.

Thoughts, opinions?

~Charlie


----------



## Spikesgirl (Mar 21, 2008)

Have you thought about BSU (Boston State)? That's my son's alma mater and he really enjoyed it (for the most part). The contacts he made has really helped him, he's even gotten to work with some pretty important folk along the way.

Charlie


----------



## jwl868 (Mar 21, 2008)

Case Western Reserve University - my alma mater!

But, unless things have changed, it's not a college for theatre, if that's one's primary interest.


Joe

(That part of Ohio was in Connecticut's "western reserve" back when the King was laying out the colonies.)


----------



## bcfcst4 (Mar 21, 2008)

Oberlin's my top choice currently, but I'm only planning on being involved in theater as an extra-curricular or minor, I'm majoring in biology. 

Of course I haven't heard if I've gotten in yet, but I've got my fingers crossed!


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 21, 2008)

Charc, just curious as to why you choose Oberlin, Kenyon, and CWRU, but didn't look at Kent State? Or WSU, OSU, OU, CCM, or MU for that matter? Lots of decent theatre schools in Ohio.


----------



## soundlight (Mar 21, 2008)

Charc, you know my opinions on this - stop by sometime and you'll get the full tour here!


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 22, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> Small liberal arts schools...That's the setting I'm familiar with: my grade has about 90 students (average size) and class size here is about 12-14 students. Teachers are extremely accessible, and all go by their first name.
> 
> So I suppose a smaller tight-knit environment is important to me, with small class sizes, individual attention, and a higher level of student/professor interaction. I suppose also the typical feel of a small liberal arts school is important to me; ...


Just be aware that "small liberal arts" may be incongruous with "professional theatre training" schools. (Bucknell, Ithaca, and Cornell excepted, of course). We still think you should major in Business Administration, however.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 22, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> ...That being said, I don't want to be hanging plots with a sizable number of Kliegls and what appears to be DJ quality PARs...


Hey! _I_ learned with Kliegls; and PARs, DJ quality or not, weren't even in use in the theatre yet. Judge a potential school by its *faculty*, not its *facilities*. The former can compensate for the shortcomings of the latter, but not the converse. I wouldn't even consider a school where I didn't have an in-depth meeting with the Resident Lighting Designer and/or Technical Director. You're interviewing them more than they're interviewing you at this point. Also talk to current and former students.


----------



## Pie4Weebl (Mar 22, 2008)

Hey, there is the awesome school in St. Louis, called Webster University. You should come check it out. Yes it is a conservatory and will eat your soul, but like me you can work hard a pick up a minor. I for instance am in the entreprenuership program. Also for being a small school we have a big theatre program.


----------



## icewolf08 (Mar 22, 2008)

charcoaldabs said:


> I never seriously considered University of Utah, but I did note that there was a facebook group claiming their theatre dept is better than the PTC... Any comments, Alex?
> Any other questions?


Well, I was refraining from posting on account of many CB'ers knowing my position on schools, but now I have an excuse.

As for the U of U. Their theatre department used to be in the top 10 undergrad programs in the country, then they had some time with a not so great department head and they are now trying to work back up to that position. They have good performance spaces and good equipment. There is no tech major, only design. I see that as the fatal flaw in the non acting side of the program here. This may change in the future as some of the more stubborn faculty are reaching towards retirement.

In terms of design they do do a good job. The program is geared more towards getting their designers into grad schools, but this is not a bad thing. There are plenty of U of U students who have gone on to big things. The students I have worked with like the program and faculty, and the work that I have seen them do is very high quality.

I do have some gripes about the way the department is structured and run, but this is not the forum for that.


now, on to my usual college discussion. Charc already knows my opinion, and since Derek brought up my alma mater, Ithaca, I will try to be brief. Ithaca is a great school for theatre, and while the tech and design programs are BFA programs you still have time and are required to broaden your mind outside of the department. The class sizes are generally small, and the student to faculty ratio is very nice.

I thought the faculty was just amazing. These are people who are there for you no matter what you need. They will help you with your studies and they will help you with life. They will also be friends for life. I still stay in touch with many of my former profs. We trade stories and advice, and sometimes just soot the breeze. These were people who invited you to their homes for dinner, wanted to be your friends, and had real vested interest in you. it just made for a very warm and inviting atmosphere (and Linda in the office really does know everything about everyone in the department). I am sure that there are other schools that have a faculty like that, I just can't speak to them.

Ithaca is also a great location. It is beautiful. It is also a hippie town in the middle of nowhere, which doesn't suit everyone. However, there is always something going on, from concerts to shows, to applefest and chilifest. You can go boating on the lake or play paintball at Ithaca Paintball. Or you can go enjoy nature in the state parks, visit the many waterfalls and go geocaching and hiking and such.

I don't think that I need to go on, if you want more of my thoughts on IC I am sure that you can search it.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (Mar 22, 2008)

Charc, listen to Derek. TALK to the students, the faculty. See what their graduations are doing/what they have done. Don't worry if they don't have enough Source 4's for your liking. I have enough Source 4's AND 360Q's. Yes, I said enough. Sure, we always want more, but one must first develop their skills. You must learn to work with what you have and make it work before you can spec your own custom rig. (Might be time for me to respond to that other thread) 

I remember being in your shoes. I shied away from the big State schools because I felt I would get lost in such huge departments. No department is perfect, but I feel I get the attention I want in my chosen school. No doubt I get the opportunities I desire. 

What I want to know is: do you want big city life or small isolated campus?

Most of the schools you seem to be looking at have their "own little world". One of the first schools I ever looked at was Ohio Northern. NOT the school for me. While I know a man who graduated from their theatre department and is doing very well for himself, the "middle of the cornfield" life was not for me.

The biggest factor is YOU! YOU are getting training as an artist (designer or electrician, all forms of theatre craft and entertainment have the 'art' factor). Find the department that will challenge and develop YOU creatively. 

Also, consider the connections of the school. Who do they work with? Who are their partners? Do they have connections with successful working artists? With established local or regional theatres? 

It's also nice to find a school that wants you, it's nice to be wanted and find a place where you 'fit'. Again, nice but not always necessary. 

Good luck. 

Choose wisely grasshopper.


----------



## derekleffew (Mar 22, 2008)

Here you go, the top 723 colleges/universities for theatre/drama. Three down, 720 to go. [Thread moved to "student Feedback" forum.]


----------



## porkchop (Mar 22, 2008)

Charc I lived in the only town of more than 500 people in the county and we were just over 8k total population, I walked with 130 people, that was one of the biggest classes ever and included people from a small christian school and GED earners. I understand why you might want to stay in the environment but I'm here at the U of U where there's more people on campus on any given day than live in my country and it's not bad. One major thing is that most theatre's that you'll want to work for will be in cities, not all but most. College is a learning experience and i would say no more than half of that learning has anything to do with a degree. You have to learn how to change environments, maybe time in a bigger city would change the way you think, you might just like it. Also you said you don't like the "let's get drunk and go to the football game!" and that's respectable but you can only spend so much time in class/the theatre you will eventually have to have a social life.

One thing that came as a surprise to me is how diverse the requirements for a degree are. I'm a Computer Engineering major, but I'm in a grad level Healthy and Diversity class right now. It's really hard to stick solely to your major, I don't think branching out will be a problem for you. That being said sometimes when your in a school where you have classes with 100+ students that's not a bad thing. You will inevitably run into a class that you take and really don't like, maybe it's not what you though, maybe its required and easy, whatever I really like big classes for this cause I that way I don't feel like I have to be so attached.

One last thought and then I'm done ranting. You really do have to talk to students. I have a professor that teaches 3 classes a semester, both semesters one of them is 100+ students (first 2 classes for the major) I took the first one, took a year off, came back took the second class, asked a question in like week 2 of class and what happens? He calls on me by name. I have another one that is teaching 150 student video game programming classes and we all call him Bob and he recognizes all of us when we cross paths in the engineering complex. Good teachers can do amazing things even with big classes and good departments/schools will higher those teachers.

Long and short (or made short(er)): numbers do lie, talk to people. Whatever you think you're getting into, you're wrong, be prepared for new things. And in the words of Mark Twain "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."


----------



## jwl868 (Mar 22, 2008)

wow - This is an educational thread. I just learned that CWRU has a Drama program, and that it can be considered a "liberal arts" (!?!?) college!

The engineering and science at CWRU pretty much bulldoze over anything else there. [Charc - I think someone lead you astray pointing you there.]


Joe


----------



## Footer (Mar 22, 2008)

jwl868 said:


> wow - This is an educational thread. I just learned that CWRU has a Drama program, and that it can be considered a "liberal arts" (!?!?) college!
> The engineering and science at CWRU pretty much bulldoze over anything else there. [Charc - I think someone lead you astray pointing you there.]
> Joe



Ya, I had an X who wanted to go there years back for Chem E. Didn't even know they had a theatre program.


----------



## avkid (Mar 23, 2008)

icewolf08 said:


> Ithaca is also a great location. It is beautiful. It is also a hippie town *in the middle of nowhere,* which doesn't suit everyone. However, there is always something going on, from concerts to shows, to applefest and chilifest. You can go boating on the lake or play paintball at Ithaca Paintball. Or you can go enjoy nature in the state parks, visit the many waterfalls and go geocaching and hiking and such.


I resent that, it is not.
That's a almost a "city" compared to the next county East.


----------



## CynicWhisper (Mar 23, 2008)

Ahh, I like the idea of this thread. I wish there had been this sort of thing a few months ago when I was still looking. 

Originally, my list of considerations was SUNY Purchase, Emerson College, Webster, Depaul, Ithaca, university of northern colorado, Southern Methodist University , USC and Carnegie-Mellon. 

So far I've visited Emerson and SUNY, here's what I tought

SUNY Purchase is in a lovely, small city in New York. The campus itself was big and quite pleasant, though it seemed oddly quiet. I guess the campus just felt weird to me. The main theatre was lovely, but apparently students never actually get to use it. The blackbox theatre seemed alright, not that I could see it, given the tour guide had no idea how to turn on the lights =P Overall, I wasn't totally wowed. There was just the one theatre that students get to use and given how small the town was, it seemed to me that I could get bored. Though, if I recall, it's an undergrad only program, which could give more opportunity

Emerson College was one of my top choices. It's in downtown boston, middle of the theatre district, right across from boston commons. The facilities are gorgeous, all state of the art, brand new stuff for everything from film to theatre. The main theatre, is BEAUTIFUL, it's a restored theatre from the last century. There is also a black box which I didn't see, but heard good things about. I know I wouldn't get bored with this school. There are countless opportunities to play with film, theatre, comedy, radio, everything you could imagine. You can make connections in the boston area. I was very impressed with this school and it's been one of my top two choices. Aside from the freezing weather and totally urban campus, this school looked spectacular to me. 

My other top choice is SMU. They're starting a brand new design program and it's very selective. I've heard that since the program is so selective and still so small, you can get graduate level training as an undergrad. You also get to design as an undergrad. I'm visiting this one next week, it should be interested. 

Anyone have any opinions about SMU?


----------



## Hughesie (Mar 23, 2008)

what about AUS charc

we have kangaroos and the like.

and we got rid of that trash ex prime minister known as "Howars"


----------



## icewolf08 (Mar 24, 2008)

CynicWhisper said:


> Emerson College was one of my top choices. It's in downtown boston, middle of the theatre district, right across from boston commons. The facilities are gorgeous, all state of the art, brand new stuff for everything from film to theatre. The main theatre, is BEAUTIFUL, it's a restored theatre from the last century. There is also a black box which I didn't see, but heard good things about. I know I wouldn't get bored with this school. There are countless opportunities to play with film, theatre, comedy, radio, everything you could imagine. You can make connections in the boston area. I was very impressed with this school and it's been one of my top two choices. Aside from the freezing weather and totally urban campus, this school looked spectacular to me.
> My other top choice is SMU. They're starting a brand new design program and it's very selective. I've heard that since the program is so selective and still so small, you can get graduate level training as an undergrad. You also get to design as an undergrad. I'm visiting this one next week, it should be interested.
> Anyone have any opinions about SMU?


Having grown up in Boston I have heard mixed reviews of Emerson. Now, take this with a grain of salt because I did not go there myself. I have heard that their graduate programs are much better than their undergrad, and that sometimes the undergrads just end up picking up the scraps. Now, this could have changed since I was doing the college thing, but may be worth investigating.

I don't know anything about SMU except what I gathered from their website. now, it could be just that I missed something, but it doesn't look like they offer a degree that focuses in tech/design (at least is isn't listed on their site). However (and here is another shameless plug), all that you say about the way they teach at SMU is the same philosophy at Ithaca: small class size, demanding, selective, and graduate level training.


----------



## jwl868 (Mar 24, 2008)

One other overall consideration is distance from home. There is a distance (and it varies from individual to individual) where it will become cost- and/or time-prohibitive to return home during the school year, or for having your parents visit you. For me it was a 3 hour drive, so I got home at all the breaks and my parents visited a couple times. And I had a few friends from Pittsburgh and could get a ride with them rather taking Greyhound. On the other hand, I had a couple fraternity brothers from Hawaii and they only went home at the end of the school year and occassionally at Christmas break.

Joe


----------



## porkchop (Mar 24, 2008)

Distance from home is a consideration, but being too far from home isn't always a bad thing. Personally I'm about 5 hours drive from home, and with a pickup that gets 8 miles to the gallon I go home basically for summer and winter break exclusively. I really like this though, it encouraged me to do a little college growing up faster than most of my friends. I have all my bills to pay, and I can call mom or dad if I really need help, but I'm still gonna have to wait for something in the mail, so it's better to have just planed ahead in the first place. Given the fact that I have a Delta hub (SLC airport) on the other side of town it is often just as expensive to drive home as it is to fly somewhere. This really makes breaks more fun, instead of going home and living in a room that doesn't feel like it's mine anymore I go somewhere bring and sunny and hang out with friends. So basically, think about how far away from home your going to school, but you might actually enjoy the independence of being a little farther from home.


----------



## mixmaster (Mar 27, 2008)

I'm going to put in a plug for my Buena Vista University here. We offer a couple different Biology majors. We also have a Drama department, a recording production department, and my own Event Tech Department, in addition to our own student run radio and TV stations. 
The drama department does 3 main shows per year, and our crew is busy year round with lots of others. (I think I have 3 days in April that I don't have something on my calender.)
Another big plus is that the campus is 100% wireless, and you are _given_ a laptop to use while you are a student. There's something nice about being right on the lake too. 
We're located in Storm Lake, Ia. (north west corner of the state) Omaha is 3 hours or so south, the Twin Cities are about that far Northeast. 
I have no idea what tuition is. I think this year the graduating class is about 400, and individual classroom sizes are in the 20s I think. My wife graduated from here back in 2000 and seems very happy with her education.
If you are interested, let me know. One of the admission reps worked for me while he was a student and I'll see if I can hook you up with him. Otherwise, check out http://www.bvu.edu/
Matt


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 28, 2008)

I know Charc wants to go to a small liberal arts college because that feels more like what he's used too... and that's great. Not trying to talk you out of it. If you're a spoiled rich brat like Charc. GREAT! 

Education vs. Hardwork and luck... here I go again... First off being from the West coast and being a state university grad who never looked at small private schools. I haven't heard of half of these universities listed above in this thread. So you spend $100k to get a degree at Flugeldorf University then you move West you may find that the prestige of the university gets you nothing.

Secondly, Let's say you go to Ithaca. I know the university has an outstanding theater reputation. Now let's say that Hughesie doesn't get a degree. But he started volunteering at the local community theater doing lighting at 15. He eventually started designing for them and while you are going to college he moves on to design for several other semi-pro and community theaters. I know the people who have hired him and they all give glowing recommendations. Guess what Hughesie and no theater degree at all is going to get the job over you because of his glowing recommendations from people in the community here that I know. 

Third, let's say you are 35 years old you have a degree from Ithaca. Hughesie is applying for the same job with a degree from Aussie State University. Neither of you has worked for anyone I know. Unless I went to Ithaca, I'm not going to care where you or Hughesie got your degrees from. I'm going to look at what have you done in the 10 years since your degree.

(Most of these arguments also work for the getting an MFA vs. a BFA.)

Don't get me wrong, education is important! You need to know far more than a high school drama program teaches to have a career in tech. But where you get it or how much you have is not nearly as important as who you impress along the way with your work. Impressing the right person will make your career. Screwing up in front of the wrong person will ruin your career. Get all the education you can afford but for those of you who are not spoiled rich brats like Charc() don't feel your dreams of a great career in tech are out of reach. A budget education at a state school will work just as well. How good you are, how hard you work, who you impress, and a little dumb luck, are vastly more important in the long run than where you got your degree from.

P.S. Charc, how about a degree in Risk Managment or Ocupational Health and Safety


----------



## CynicWhisper (Mar 30, 2008)

Alright, I return from Southern Methodist University a convert. I was so impressed with their program. In fact, I'll definitely be going there this fall. 

The campus is beautiful, and unlike a lot of the other more conservatory style programs I looked at, it offers an honors program and any class you could imagine, even ones that have nothing to do with theatre specifically. Also, unlike most of the other schools I looked at, you can take a minor. 

Their undergrad design program is brand new. It just start last year and so far there are only 2 people in it. Next year I'll be one of the second class of five students. What's lovely about it is that it allows you to take basically anything you want and tailor your degree to your desires. They also have a very prestigious grad program and luckily, if you're good as an undergrad, you get bumped up to grad classes. They have beautiful facilities, 3 fully equipped theatres of different kinds and a ton of rehearsal spaces that are used for student projects. It's a really self-driven program and one of the things that I've noticed about SMU grads is that they start a lot of theatres. They don't have to worry too much about finding work, if they can't, they create work. Plus, they have a new dean that is doing really progressive things with the theatre program including study abroad programs (impossible for theatre at other colleges) including for techs, and integrating degrees across disciplines, like combining the design degree with a minor in film and tv. Plus, since the university has such a disgusting amount of money, they have all the amazing equipment. I can't even name all the different intel lights and boards they have. Classes are small and the professors are spectacular. Steve Woods, the design professor is still working in the business, in fact I just saw Neil Young's rock Opera Greendale, which will be going from Dallas to off-broadway New york in a few months which Mr. Woods designed. They're also bringing in another design professor, whose name escapes me, but he's just moving in to Dallas after a few years working huge shows in New york. Students get a lot of individual attention. 

After I visited SMU, I could think of no valid reasons why Emerson would be better. I was thoroughly impressed and would highly suggest a look at it. I had reservations at first, but once I visited, I realized that it was neither as southern or methodist as would frighten me. Lastly, it is a rich kid school and the number of porsches parked around alarmed me a lot. But, that also means that they have a lot of money to give. I got 20 grand off, 10 for academics, 10 for theatre. So in the end, it's about as expensive as going to my state university.


----------



## punktech (Apr 6, 2008)

ah college selection. i skipped that. i applied on a whim to the one true "early college" (drop out of hs and go to college at least a semester before you normally can): Bard College at Simon's Rock in Great Barrington, MA. Great department, very small but very intensive and student led. i started designing on my own when i was a sophomore (can't beat that in many other places!). to get in all you really have to be is an original, innovative, passionate, and intelligent person (not really asking that much in my opinion). it's small and liberal arts heavy (the gen ed reqs take 2 years to complete and include a cultural perspectives course). it's situated in a tiny town in South Berkshire county in Massachusetts and is filled with neo-hippies and other kooky crazy folk whom i have a deep affection for.

yes, i am doing a plug, no, i don't care. i love my school and feel that everyone who might be interested in what we offer should have the chance to find out.


----------

