# Checking out a new facility



## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 1, 2015)

High school - 1500 seats - sort of rural area - Mt Zion Illinois. Some images. (Photos all reposted below in smaller size and as plain jpegs.)


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## AlexDonkle (Dec 1, 2015)

Looks good!

Just curious, but where did the wood panels in front of the balcony rail come from? (Guessing they're acoustically perforated to avoid bouncing sound back to the stage, but seem like they also make hanging lights from the balcony rail a little trickier)

Love the yellow catwalk floors though.


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## AxlD1234 (Dec 1, 2015)

Can we talk about how this is the brightest ive seen a house before....Holy House Lights.


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## techieman33 (Dec 1, 2015)

I'm not really a fan of all the exposed steel. And don't really like that the back side of the catwalk isn't covered, I think it makes the whole project look unfinished. The rest of the space looks beautiful though.


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## Les (Dec 1, 2015)

Wow, architecturally, that room is all over the place. The beautiful wood panels in contrast with the minimalist exposed "walmart supercenter" ceiling is a bit conflicting. I agree that it's bright (not a bad thing over all), but I'm not a fan of the fluorescent-looking lights in the sofft, or the zig-zaggy fixtures up above. The school bus-style box seating position is interesting; never seen that before (maybe I don't get out enough). First reaction was "ew, what terrible seats" but I guess I can see it working for a high school space. Hope someone remembers to regularly dust the sills of all those weird window-holes on the main level .


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## Moose Hatrack (Dec 1, 2015)

In high school I had dirt and rope to work with... this is a place of endless possibilities.


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## derekleffew (Dec 1, 2015)

Since I can't see the images, only a bunch of "do not enter" signs,


I'll just cause trouble...


Moose Hatrack said:


> In high school I had dirt and rope to work with...


What? You had budget for rope? Walked ten miles to skool ever day thru snow, even in summer, uphill both ways, and used autotransformer boards and radial incan. Lekos.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2015)

The exposed structure is perhaps an acquired taste, but I find when set up for production - without the catwalk worklights on - it does tend to all blur a bit and house light and clouds come into foreground. Of course with lights off, it doesn't matter. 

The problem we find with LED down lights lights (everything there is LED and dims pretty well) is if you pick beam spreads for low glare and layout for even coverage, you get more light. I suspect even our HOUSE FULL preset will not be as bright as these photos.

The wood panels are design and are reflectors - directs sound energy into seating. You see very little absorption in most of my projects because the acoustical consultants want to keep tea energy in the room to support the event, not suck it out and then have to rely on all electro acoustics. Its only the sound system fanatics who want to fuzz everything - because they don't know how to design for natural acoustics. Too may dead rooms because of this.

The side seating is I think wonderful. First, the shaping of the side walls it allows helps natural acoustics. It keeps more people closer to stage. But most importantly the "peopling" of the walls is very rooted in history with many precedents and simply makes the space feel better. All those rooms with monolithic side walls - can't stand them. As far as the orientation, I like loose chairs, so people can orient themselves, but the rows of fixed seats parallel to the fascia work pretty well for sightlines - your eye is closer to the rail and thus you can see over it better - and it's not unusual to socialize with people in front and behind as easily to the side. I wish you could sit there and see how special it is and how comfortable it is.

Well, I'm of course biased but thought it would be fun to share. Only sorry I didn't share previous ones - there's been like 5 or 6 this fall. Wish you all could tour it.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2015)

derekleffew said:


> Since I can't see the images, only a bunch of "do not enter" signs,
> 
> I'll just cause trouble...
> 
> What? You had budget for rope? Walked ten miles to skool ever day thru snow, even in summer, uphill both ways, and used autotransformer boards and radial incan. Lekos.


Can't explain - seems to work on two platforms for me. Others seem to suggest they see the images. Sorry.


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## techieman33 (Dec 2, 2015)

Les said:


> The school bus-style box seating position is interesting; never seen that before (maybe I don't get out enough).



I occasionally work at a venue that has them, they typically sell a lot of those seats. People going to a show by themselves, or perhaps don't like sitting next to other people, or feeling like they're in a big crowd might find them appealing.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2015)

techieman33 said:


> I occasionally work at a venue that has them, they typically sell a lot of those seats. People going to a show by themselves, or perhaps don't like sitting next to other people, or feeling like they're in a big crowd might find them appealing.


One of the workman said they were his favorite seats, another said his wife wanted one to keep there kids all in one place, and a teacher liked them for that group thing. Basically an opera box. I imagine some high school clicks will "adopt" specific boxes. I refer to them as lily pads; took me more than a week to lay out. They serve an important egress function for the balcony as well.


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## chausman (Dec 2, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Can't explain - seems to work on two platforms for me. Others seem to suggest they see the images. Sorry.



I'm getting the same thing as Derek. Can someone upload the pictures to CB instead of whatever Google product the pictures are currently in?


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## Michael K (Dec 2, 2015)

chausman said:


> I'm getting the same thing as Derek. Can someone upload the pictures to CB instead of whatever Google product the pictures are currently in?



Same here in Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (ios), those of you that can see them, what browser are you using?


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## Les (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks for the insight, @BillConnerASTC. I suspect the lily pads could grow on me - especially since I appreciate not having neighbors if I go to a show alone. Good point also on the exposed architecture and it fading away as lights are brought down. Probably pretty rare to have the room in this bright of setting where we can see every nook and cranny. Also, of course, many of the camera angles focus on areas that most patrons won't likely be staring at. I think the jarring part for me was that it was white (I'm used to black unless it's a cloud), but again it generally fades in to the darkness anyway. Over all, it looks like a nice, clean, functional space. I think my primary qualms at the beginning were with intensity and focus, but didn't take in to account how the room will be viewed by the patron with houselights set a little lower. 

I imagine a large, squarish room like this one is difficult to work with.


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## techieman33 (Dec 2, 2015)

The house lights being full on may be nice to keep on a preset for things like cleaning and work crews.


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## Chris15 (Dec 2, 2015)

I'm also getting grey no entry symbols in lieu of images...


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## AudJ (Dec 2, 2015)

I was able to view the images yesterday, but late last night they disappeared, still gone.

I wonder about that much seating in a rural area - is the school that large, or are they planning on a lot of major rentals?


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## JohnD (Dec 2, 2015)

Here is some info on the school:
http://www.mtzion.com/econdev/education.htm

EDIT: Census data shows substantial growth and very low unemployment so that might have been a factor.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2015)

They compete nationally in show choir and took first at least once. That explains 1500 seats.

I don't know what to do about photos. I simply copied and pasted images.


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## Evans Poulos (Dec 2, 2015)

Michael K said:


> Same here in Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (ios), those of you that can see them, what browser are you using?


I see them fine in safari on my phone.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 2, 2015)

BTW someone mentioned the wall washers. They are CK intelliwhite graze. The photos yesterday showed them with all three whites at full. Today, the cool white are taken out completely in all presets. were I more technically inclined, I could post a picture now - that I guess only some could see - but it's much warmer now. The place is still swarming in workers, especially the electrical and stage lighting contractors. Can't wait to see an actual preset that was other than all on at full - work and house lights.


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## TheaterEd (Dec 2, 2015)

Just to chime in, I also can't see them on my work PC or on my cell phone. 

That being said, 

Bill, I also am sad that you haven't posted photos of the others you did this fall. We have a post for showing off lighting, sets, and booths. Is it time to start a show off your house thread?


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## chausman (Dec 2, 2015)

Michael K said:


> Same here in Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (ios), those of you that can see them, what browser are you using?



Tapatalk, Safari on iOS, Chrome on iOS, Chrome on Mac, Chrome on Mac in Incognito, Safari on Mac, Chrome on Windows 10, and Edge on Windows 10. All in various states of being signed into my Google account, and no pictures. Just no entry symbols.


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## Footer (Dec 2, 2015)

Now go 5 miles away @MrsFooter and my Alma mater and do a new theatre for their department. Glad to see something happening in the Decatur area. Spent years there watching that place decay.

Glad they are going to get this building going. Really going to be interested to see what happens there with Catpillar crashing and the commodity market in the toilet.


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## Moose Hatrack (Dec 2, 2015)

derekleffew said:


> What? You had budget for rope? Walked ten miles to skool ever day thru snow, even in summer, uphill both ways, and used autotransformer boards and radial incan. Lekos.


Hey! Me too! AND I carried a 70 pound sack of coal on each shoulder so I could light the stove and have the room warm before the teacher arrived!
ATCON 2400 (watt) dimmer console (four 600 watt rotary dimmers in a cool blue case) and 150 watt R spots and floods with metal devices that clipped over the lamps to accommodate gel frames... There have been times when I wished I could still find those.


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## Evans Poulos (Dec 2, 2015)

Evans Poulos said:


> I see them fine in safari on my phone.


Now they're gone...


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## AlexDonkle (Dec 3, 2015)

Evans Poulos said:


> Now they're gone...



Sounds like the problem described here:
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/blogger/HaVj6iACq7M

Photos appear to be hosted via Google, and the viewing permissions were changed.


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## AlexDonkle (Dec 3, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> The wood panels are design and are reflectors - directs sound energy into seating. You see very little absorption in most of my projects because the acoustical consultants want to keep tea energy in the room to support the event, not suck it out and then have to rely on all electro acoustics. Its only the sound system fanatics who want to fuzz everything - because they don't know how to design for natural acoustics. Too may dead rooms because of this.



Interesting, I know we've used ceiling and wall shapes for creating natural reflections on a lot of projects, but the rear surfaces are typically absorption, reflection towards the ceiling, or heavy diffusion of some kind. I would think the panels in the photo would cause a noticeable slap echo having some seats hearing voices coming from behind them, but that's not the case here?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 3, 2015)

AlexDonkle said:


> Interesting, I know we've used ceiling and wall shapes for creating natural reflections on a lot of projects, but the rear surfaces are typically absorption, reflection towards the ceiling, or heavy diffusion of some kind. I would think the panels in the photo would cause a noticeable slap echo having some seats hearing voices coming from behind them, but that's not the case here?


I don't know - no events yet. They are a part of the acoustical consultants work. They are steep so reflections are steeply downward. I do typically see rear walls through shaping used. It is usually diffusive, and I believe it helps that in my planning, I avoid curved focusing rear walls. The most typical treatment are a series of short radiused sections - like 8' sections bowed 8-10" in plan. Often under balcony are tilted - but varies up or down or both.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 3, 2015)

Reposted photos.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 3, 2015)

Did this work better?


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## Lextech (Dec 3, 2015)

I can see the pictures now, couldn't before.


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## robartsd (Dec 3, 2015)

I don't really know what to call that group of lights that look like flouresent tubes. I imagine it is intended to be artistic - some sort of modern linear light chandiler. However, I don't think it reads well against a white exposed steel ceiling. As others have said, it might look different in person and with the house not as bright. I don't think I'd have any negative reaction to the white exposed steel ceiling if the only house lights were the LED downlight cans.

Bill, thanks for sharing.


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## TheaterEd (Dec 3, 2015)

Very cool space. I love the white catwalk with the yellow floor. The color pallet of the seats and carpet feels kinda late 70's early 80's though. Again, that may just be the way it looks in pictures under intense lighting.


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## SteveB (Dec 3, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Did this work better?



Yes, viewable on my iPad in Safari. 

Thanks for re-posting


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 3, 2015)

robartsd said:


> I don't really know what to call that group of lights that look like flouresent tubes. I imagine it is intended to be artistic - some sort of modern linear light chandiler. However, I don't think it reads well against a white exposed steel ceiling. As others have said, it might look different in person and with the house not as bright. I don't think I'd have any negative reaction to the white exposed steel ceiling if the only house lights were the LED downlight cans.
> 
> Bill, thanks for sharing.



In design, I was concerned it would look small and odd. In the space, it looks pretty good. As I was leaving, they had recorded the first house preset, and it seemed pleasant - perhaps nicer from the sides of the orchestra than from the back of balcony. It's art, YMMV. No disagreements to many of the comments on aesthetics - but this was a project that could easily have cost $20m and in fact was delivered for under $7m. There were some casualties. Given the circumstances, I thought the interiors and other designers affecting the aesthetics did a good job. Precast concrete is not a warm and fuzzy material to start with.


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## rwhealey (Dec 3, 2015)

TheaterEd said:


> Very cool space. I love the white catwalk with the yellow floor. The color pallet of the seats and carpet feels kinda late 70's early 80's though. Again, that may just be the way it looks in pictures under intense lighting.



Architects have been rediscovering how "wonderful" the 1974 color pallets are for a few years now. IMO with seating you should pick colors for longevity, not trendiness. You can repaint walls but knowing most schools those seats will be there for 25-40 years before being refurbished or replaced - a good place to make a more conservative choice.


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## AlexDonkle (Dec 4, 2015)

$7 million for this room? That's pretty impressive to keep the cost that low.

Also, was this a PageSoutherlandPage project by chance? (The randomized fluorescent lighting and seating colors reminds me a bit of their U of Texas Pan America PAC....)


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 4, 2015)

AlexDonkle said:


> $7 million for this room? That's pretty impressive to keep the cost that low.
> 
> Also, was this a PageSoutherlandPage project by chance? (The randomized fluorescent lighting and seating colors reminds me a bit of their U of Texas Pan America PAC....)


Nope. BLDD Architects.


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## gary smith (Dec 5, 2015)

Hey Bill, thanks for reposting the pics. Having worked as an LD in many school theatres, I would be most happy to work, and train students, in that space. I would love to see more of your work.


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## chausman (Dec 5, 2015)

Is that a FOH mix position in the middle of the lower section? Seems awkwardly exposed and leaving what (based on the rest of the building) would be some very nice equipment in the open or subject to being hauled around all the time.

I personally love the fact that the house gets that bright. I loathe the incredibly dim houses of every venue I've been in here.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

There is an foh mix in house, at rear criss aisle. It is lockable (metal roll top). What's the option? The building zoning makes it not hard to secure whole auditorium and stage.


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## microstar (Dec 5, 2015)

Just out of curiosity, was it $7m for the auditorium and support spaces or including the adjoining field house?
Saw the plans at the Mt.Zion schools website. Pretty impressive either way. Thanks for reposting the pics.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

microstar said:


> Just out of curiosity, was it $7m for the auditorium and support spaces or including the adjoining field house?
> Saw the plans at the Mt.Zion schools website. Pretty impressive either way. Thanks for reposting the pics.


The budget for the auditorium and stage was $7m. We believe it actually bid at a little less, but since the design and construction is combined with the field house, it is hard to say. In this case the contractor was even more reluctant than usual to offer an opinion. The fact that most school auditoriums and stages are a part of a larger project, it makes knowing what it actually cost difficult. Auditoriums and stages on a per square foot basis must be more or much more expensive than classroom or office or even gymnasiums, but very hard to know exactly how much. I think this was a bargain on any basis, with a tall stage with rigging traded off for seat count. Mt Zion is all about show choir and the competitions and festivals - and show choir does not seem very dependent on rigging.

PS - there is not much support space - much to my regret an I think others are seeing that quickly. I tried to preserve a space for a support building - a low roof addition upstage - but it will be tougher because of a large transformer and some fire sprinkler piping. Grrrr.

I sometimes hear when we present a design and it's say $8.5m or whatever. I work on a lot of high schools where the auditorium and stage seem to be in the $7 to 10m category, and in the 600 to 900 seat range - Mt Zion was an outlier in that regard), of other schools who did same for $3m. Inevitably not the same when I go look or find data - noisy rooms, squat shallow stages without wing space, poor sightlines, no or sub-minimal access to lighting and rigging, emaciated lighting, rigging, and sound systems, etc. I just tried to explain to a school and architect why I was not a good judge of "average" and "moderate" when it comes to this. I'd probably judge the average high school theatre as inadequate in many if not every regard. It would be a great research project - a survey of a large number of high school auditoriums and stages - Stage Spec sort of data - and some analysis. I still play with trying to do that. I probably should pick a smaller state than Illinois - though I have thought of dividing Illinois at I-80 and just visit all public high schools north of I-80 (considering there are just under 1200 public high schools in Illinois, and probably 2/3 or 3/4 are north of I-80, that's maybe 850 at 2.5 per day on the average, so say 1 1/2 years and a lot of miles. And 2 1/2 per day may be optimistic if I included some very basic noise and acoustic measurements. Maybe try to collect some anecdotal data on injuries and such. Still, I'd like to know.


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## JohnD (Dec 5, 2015)

Here is the link to the PDF with the plans and some photos, also includes the timeline. 
http://www.edlinesites.net/files/_z...3745a49013852ec4/facility_plan_April_2014.pdf


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

Wow - those are some amazing photo-realistic renderings. I had not seen those before. Too bad they don't include a section. As I'm sure my clients get tired of hearing, in auditorium and stage planning, section first, plan later. But thanks for posting. Here is section clipped from rigging drawings:


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## JohnD (Dec 5, 2015)

I think it would be a good idea to have threads like this for other facilities, great ideas and a good way to show money well spent. 
A couple of questions?
>Is there an orchestra pit? the plan seems to show one?
>What is the stage floor covering, I know you like Marmoleum, or is it a painted surface?
>At the back of the hall, there seems to be a booth with two windows and a projector window, is there enough stage height to fly in a projection screen. I rather like this location vs. the frequent location above the back of the balcony.
>I haven't looked at the plans close enough, but what is the access to the two sets of catwalks, stairs, spiral stairs or ladder.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

Arrange a tour. .

This has been fun, and it just never occurred to me before, but also I had allowed more time on site. Sometimes it 12+ hour days, running a lot if linesets, chasing dmx and network problems, solving Paradigm configurations. Thus one went very smoothly (aided by great work by Chicago Spotlight).

Pit option is a very long story but there is a demi-pit - same elevation as row one. Removable sections if rail for entry at foot of each aisle. 40' wide, 12' deep at centerline. Filler designed to allow an 8' or 12' us-ds dimension. They have no tradition of doing the typical spring musical.

Stage floor top surface is 3/4" plyron painted with PPG Breakthrough. I think this is our basic resilent floor sub structure - 3/4" neoprene waffle pads, 2x4 sleepers 16" OC, 1 1/8" sub-floor, and the 3/4" plyron - Robertson head screws 16" OC. (Changing to screws 24" OC on future projects.)

Yes to booth and projector. Screen is self tensioning roll up between main curtain and fire stage cloud. Trick is always above under balcony heads and below balcony structure and ceiling. Good here.

Access is spiral stair behind stageright cheekwall. A better than usual spiral in this case. 3 catwalks across stage, one over forestage, two foh (second wider for follow spots), and connector on each side fro us wall to cw 3 (furthest foh). All clear head ht. To be clear, the overstage catwalks are for lighting - the electrics - and work from both sides and mask. I'm a hawk on good technical access and circulation. Even if you don't have the gear at first, its much easier to install purchased or rental stuff. And don't make me bend over or crawl - not necessary. Does require vigilance on ducts and fire sprinklers, and sometimes not possible in renovation.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

Second try. I should have posted this instead of trying to describe catwalk plan in words.


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## chausman (Dec 5, 2015)

BillConnerASTC said:


> There is an foh mix in house, at rear criss aisle. It is lockable (metal roll top). What's the option? The building zoning makes it not hard to secure whole auditorium and stage.



Well, something that doesn't put the console in the middle of the aisle, however being lockable is a good alternative. My experience has been that high school theater spaces are used for a very wide range of 'events'. Mine was used for Elementary Band, class meetings, testing meetings, random band practices, and an acting class throughout the day on a regular basis. As well as random speakers that one teacher or another would bring in.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

Thinking about bright houses - until a project where the architect listened to me say that the structure, etc., above the clouds did not have to be painted black, and I showed up to see it painted white, did I have any idea I'd like it. Now this is I think this is fourth (plus a couple that are medium to dark hues) and I really like it. Nowhere near as oppressive as the blackness of many. If the stage is lit - or just curtain warmers even - and work lights (on catwalks) out - it all blends into one very light colored overhead. Not easy to believe without experiencing. Here's another recently opened project with a light or white overhead - though this is a ceiling covering ducts and structure so different. Just got this link - not too crazy about the photosphere distortions but interesting. Seating is in rows - looks morphed here - into a fourth dimension. Knoxville HS, Illinois. http://bit.ly/1IJqDgO


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## Thetechmanmac (Dec 5, 2015)

Looks like an awesome space! Do you have any booth pictures?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

Probably not what you'd like that or shows much. Booth was still full of boxes and not really organized and like always, they forgot the chairs. (ETC should offer a chair!) I was interested in view when I took this. This is about half of the booth - a little (tiny) bit more space to right and projector is centerline. They can move console or touch screen or use app on phone or tablet (provided) at foh mix position for events where same person runs sound and lighting. I usually do 3 positions (lights, stage manager, sound) of 5 to 6' each but decided to do just two here since sound as designed to stay foh.


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## Thetechmanmac (Dec 5, 2015)

looks like a comfy booth? What consoles are going in?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 5, 2015)

I only know lighting. Ion with 2 fader wings, 2 touch screens, 3 app licenses and one device, and misc other accessories. This is a fully networked room with a lot of LEDs as well as some quartz with S4 dimmers.

I'm sure the sound system is robust and very complete, based on my experience with the designer.


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## AlexDonkle (Dec 7, 2015)

Are those orchestra shell panels located above the catwalks?


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 7, 2015)

AlexDonkle said:


> Are those orchestra shell panels located above the catwalks?


Yes - over the overstage catwalks - the center 48' or so of the stage.


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## JohnD (Dec 7, 2015)

Something of a sidebar story but according to the architects PDF timeline, the school gets the keys on Jan 1 and the school is hosting a show choir invitational on Jan 15-16. Talk about trial by fire.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 7, 2015)

JohnD said:


> Something of a sidebar story but according to the architects PDF timeline, the school gets the keys on Jan 1 and the school is hosting a show choir invitational on Jan 15-16. Talk about trial by fire.


No project ever finishes on schedule and very hard to get a school to accept any kind of delay or scheduled break in period. In fact, I think they have a school even or two this week and next to try it out - and the faculty are not comfortable. Its a problem. Also they are not planning on hiring a theatre specialist. My guess if other projects are any indicator they will have someone part or full time by the 2016-2017 school year start. You can't go from portable next to nothing in a gym to a full theatre - albeit no real rigging - and not expect there to be more to do; not to mention that a good space tends to bring community users out of the woodwork.


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## venuetech (Dec 7, 2015)

I am confused by the traveler track operating lines, they look very short. almost need to sit down on the catwalk to operate. or am i missing something


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## BillConnerFASTC (Dec 7, 2015)

They are but its the borders, not the intermediate travelers. For acoustic music, all the borders and travellers are opened to minimize absorption. There is a portable shell wall system - basically two sides. Upstage wall is block and sky drop has insignificant absorption, and the fixed clouds over stage.

Plus on catwalk they minimize clutter and obstructions on stage.

Wish I'd done this "studio" for project at WMAAA. Some interesting aspects.


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