# Boundary Microphones and footsteps?



## AVS (Mar 1, 2016)

Hi,

I am planning to buy 3 [PCC160 crown Mics ( AKG )] for live theatre recording.
The main purpose is to have a good alternative to lavalier or headset Mics.

I had many good reviews about this PCC160 but I would like to make sure that this mic doesn't make the footsteps "louder" than the dialogue itself ( as other reviews confirm for every boundary mic ).

How is this Mic considered in thems of noise and phase issues?

Is a number of 3 PCC160' s, at the bottom of the stage, enough ( or too much ) for a clear recording of the actors from left to right side of the stage?

Is there any good alternative You can suggest?

Thank You in advance


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## jkowtko (Mar 1, 2016)

I've used these mics a few times ... they're good mics ... but as you say, generally floor boundary mics are used for auxiliary pickup and not primary sound reinforcement. I personally would prefer to hang a few mics overhead, and would use the floor mics as a second choice.


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## Lextech (Mar 1, 2016)

Yes, PCCs pick up footsteps very well. First choice for recording would really depend on type of show, what kind of space, how wide a stage and why are you recording? A few more details will help us help you.


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## AVS (Mar 5, 2016)

Thank you all for your answers. I took in count all your advices.

to answer to Lextech,
the type of show is mainly theatre and most of the times the actors don't have any lavalier or clip mics. 
The theatre is usually big enough to have between 50 and 1000 people. 
The stages usually have up to 10 actors at the time.
We are recording mainly theatre for live television ord for CD selling purpose.

So are the PCC's mainly support mics? 

Thank you very much again for your answers.


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## Dionysus (Mar 8, 2016)

Due to proximity to the floor they will tend to naturally pickup footfalls, there are of course things you can do to mitigate this effect. 
Ive actually mounted these mics on a prosc before to some effect etc. I suggest you take a close look at the data sheet for the mic, it tells you much about the pickup of the mic. Also I remember there being a PDF guide to using them around once around a time, not sure if I saved a copy.

I often use these mics mounted directly onto the floor IN ORDER pickup foot noise from dance.

Seen people take measures to isolate the mics from the floor surface.

Experiment and see what works is often the best bet. Rent a few and find out how they will work in your situation.


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## RonHebbard (Mar 9, 2016)

AVS said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am planning to buy 3 [PCC160 crown Mics ( AKG )] for live theatre recording.
> The main purpose is to have a good alternative to lavalier or headset Mics.
> ...


Hello!
For alternatives you may want to look here:
http://www.bartlettaudio.com/collections/stage-floor-mics 
Bruce Bartlett was the mic guru at Shure and Crown, and invented the venerable PCC-160 used as a boundary microphone for stage use. Bruce has improved the original PCC-160 design and sells it (and other microphones) from his web site. 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## FMEng (Mar 9, 2016)

Dionysus said:


> Seen people take measures to isolate the mics from the floor surface.



Such efforts are probably misguided in most places. PZMs generally do not have a problem with mechanical conduction of the footsteps. They simply pick up the acoustic sound of the footsteps. Attempts at mechanical isolation may also raise the mic off the boundary surface, which can harm the performance of the mic. Footstep noise is a small price to pay for the absence of comb filtering of voices due to floor reflections, inherent in any other mic placement.


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## Dionysus (Mar 9, 2016)

FMEng said:


> Such efforts are probably misguided in most places. PZMs generally do not have a problem with mechanical conduction of the footsteps. They simply pick up the acoustic sound of the footsteps. Attempts at mechanical isolation may also raise the mic off the boundary surface, which can harm the performance of the mic. Footstep noise is a small price to pay for the absence of comb filtering of voices due to floor reflections, inherent in any other mic placement.



I agree completely. Still seen it done quite often enough.

should of gone into talking into the specifics of "boundary" microphones, utilizing a boundary surface. Being sick is no fun, thankfully I am much less delirious now as when I made the previous comment. I found that I indeed do have a copy of one such PDF I talked about earlier (don't recall where I got it, published by Crown) I'll attempt to attach it here.


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## Joel - Studio 52 (Mar 10, 2016)

I've used boundary mics on the stage floor, but have much better results from using hanging mics. I tried taping the boundary mics on the walls of the stage opening once, but wasn't able to pick up much from there. The best use I've found for my boundary mics is on the dance stage at an irish fest I do.


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## Sayen (Mar 12, 2016)

I'll second the Bartlett TM-125 and other mics. They're nice, seem to be a little easier to EQ, and they play well with my older PCCs.

I use between 3 - 5 depending on the show, and with student actors they are usually enough to reinforce without needing individual mics. Placement depends on your space, general acoustics and EQ of the room, and where your mains are located. In some theaters they can be a complete disaster.

With boundary mics, you'll usually have to do a little artificial EQ work to avoid feedback. They work well to reinforce actors, but I'm not sure you'll like the raw sound from them for recording purposes. I would strongly recommend renting/borrowing a few to try first, if you can.


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## BillESC (Mar 12, 2016)

I've had great success using Audio Technica U853R hanging cardioid condenser mics.


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## Rod Reilly (Jul 20, 2017)

For recording (only) my preference would always be a stereo pair of cardioid condensers hanging from something 15-20 forward of the stage apron - assuming everything in the performance is balanced in the seating area you will get a good natural recording. Any other placement will lead to too much of something, not enough of something else.

Failing this you want mics on everyone! and a separate mix for the recording than for the house - the two are nothing a like. A clever body can mix both on one board - for the rest of us a separate mixer is advisable - or you a digital board and record all channels for post mix.


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## Ric (Jul 20, 2017)

AVS said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am planning to buy 3 [PCC160 crown Mics ( AKG )] for live theatre recording.
> The main purpose is to have a *good* alternative to lavalier or headset Mics.
> ...



This is always going to be a compromise. There are no *good* alternatives to close micing a performer. 
With area micing ( choir/overhead, or floor/boundary mics ) you may be able to hear the performers but it will never sound like a handheld/headset/lavalier or other close micing solution.


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## Ancient Engineer (Sep 21, 2017)

I have had reasonable success in smaller venues with two or three ECM-44s hanging above and one or two PZMs on the floor.

Ya hafta mix and place them cautiously because some phasing funkage can occur. EQ is the magic here. But, as stated above, this will be a compromise.

We even went as far as having an alert uniformed attendant laying in the first AP manually aiming a Sennheiser 8070 shotgun at the meat. We got the voice... and a tremendous amount of costume rustle (victorian floophy costumes).

Your mileage may vary.


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