# Aisle Lighting



## ACTSTech (Feb 22, 2021)

We're in the process of a major renovation of a building and we've it a snag, so I'm throwing open the floor for discussion and brainstorming.

The space, at the moment, does not have dimmable house lighting. To comply with fire code, we have to have some sort of illumination in the aisles. The issue is that the venue needs to have a flexible seating plan, so the only permanent aisles will be on the sides. Those, I think, we have covered. However, if we do a center aisle, we will need illumination. I don't want to try to focus ellipsoidals on the aisle, and we're trying to avoid a permanent strip of rope lights mounted on the floor. Anyone have ideas or suggestions? The floor will probably be tile so that we can move chairs in and out, risers, tables, whatever. I was hoping someone made an illuminated runner, but that was a total fantasy.

If you have a flexible venue, how do you handle illumination for fire code?


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## teqniqal (Feb 22, 2021)

You say "I don't want to try to focus ellipsoidals on the aisle". Why not? You just said you have a flexible space. It pretty much comes with the territory. OR you could install some center aisle lights (similar to your perimeter lights) and place them on a switch (preferably an automatically resetting switch so the default is ON).

The dimming control for the aisle lights should be programmed with a lower limit to prevent them from dimming below the NFPA required 1/5 fc level -- don't rely on the board operator to know this or to do this.

Your Aisle lights should be powered from an emergency power source (generator / battery back-up) so they work during a power failure. With LED type lights the load is fairly minimal and can be handled with a local battery type UPS (listed for emergency lighting, of course -- _not a generic computer UPS_).

Trying to use 'rope lights' or 'electro luminescent tape' or other up-firing lights technically doesn't satisfy the aisle light requirement as the code calls for the light to illuminate the surface fairly uniformly, and unless you completely cover the aisle with the rope / tape lights you are not achieving this intent. I know some movie theatres (cinemas) do this, but I don't think they have thoroughly vetted it against the intent of the code - _not to mention it is VERY visually distracting to the audience!_


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## sk8rsdad (Feb 22, 2021)

Invisible UV paint and a black light cannon? I have no idea if that would satisfy any AHJ though. Ellipsoidals would be a better solution. Dedicated LED ellipsoidals with a suitable dimming profile even more so.


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## ACTSTech (Feb 22, 2021)

teqniqal said:


> You say "I don't want to try to focus ellipsoidals on the aisle". Why not? You just said you have a flexible space. It pretty much comes with the territory. OR you could install some center aisle lights (similar to your perimeter lights) and place them on a switch (preferably an automatically resetting switch so the default is ON).
> 
> The dimming control for the aisle lights should be programmed with a lower limit to prevent them from dimming below the NFPA required 1/5 fc level -- don't rely on the board operator to know this or to do this.
> 
> ...


The issue with the ellipsoidals is not that I can't do it, it's that the floor is fairly flexible for seating, the ceiling, not so much. There isn't the circuitry available not the lighting positions without stealing from the stage illumination and instruments we currently own. 

Ironically, the rope lights in the floor is what was suggested by the architect, which I pointed out (as you correctly did along with others on here) that there's no illumination of the floor, so something just beyond the lights is completely missed due to the lights in their eyes. The side aisles I plan on using 120V LED tape angled downward out of the patrons (and actors) eyes, but it's the center aisle (or other configuration) that is causing us the headaches. At the moment, I'm tempted to tell the fire marshal that we're not going to have a center aisle until the problem is rectified. Don't think that's going to fly though.


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## Ben Stiegler (Feb 23, 2021)

If you have the budget for "something in the aisles, as required by law", maybe it can fund add'l ellipspoidals and overhead hanging positions. Extra bummer to have to refocus these every time the room is reset, tho. Maybe moving lights? (it gets worser and worser, eh?)


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## ACTSTech (Feb 23, 2021)

My favorite statement from the architect was "can we just leave your house lights on all the time?" I said, "Can the movie theaters leave their lights on all the time?"

The big issue is the power. There's two lighting positions in the front of house, the next place would be the balcony rail, so anyone walking back to the rear of the house is going to have a spotlight in their eyes as the rail is 12' off the floor. The best solution that I see is to fix the house lights so they're dimmable and run them at a level that's low enough to not cause too much distraction and still provide the 1 fc that they're asking for. The guts of my house lights look like it should be an easy fix, but the electrician isn't so easily swayed. We can't afford $2200 per light if there's 10 that need to be retrofitted.


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## jtweigandt (Feb 23, 2021)

Contrasting color runners would be good for whatever demo you need to do for the inspector.. Then I found this stuff? 
could you lay out 3 or 4 patterns of your most used configs... and only light the config that is in use? Just riffin here but this looks like
pretty versatile stuff.. Or alternatively run a strip of this down both sides of your carpet runner on the rubber edge, and then you have your
lighted carpet runner. Could probably even power from a UPS with the little claxon taken out, and it could live under a specially configured aisle chair with
a rack to hold the ups. https://lighttape.com/ Sample kits with power supply https://shop.lighttape.com/products/1-2-build-a-kit-1


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## jtweigandt (Feb 23, 2021)

or clip one of these babies to every other or every third aisle chair. They are LED and will go for an entire performance and beyond . They sense the darkness and only turn on when needed. Rechargable. 
I could probably get my son to design a 3d printed chair clip to pop em on and off the leg tube. Build a power strip rack for charging and storage


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## rsmentele (Feb 23, 2021)

LED Dance floor in the entire space. Light up the squares that the aisles will be located? Also opens up opportunities for the space to be a dance club when there are no productions going on.


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## ACTSTech (Feb 23, 2021)

Thank you @jtweigandt for that. I hadn't seen the tape, but I'll keep it in mind. I do like the idea of the clip on mount. 

There doesn't seem to be a consensus about what designates an aisle in non-traditional settings (like theater in the round or cabaret seating) so that's the trap. We submitted several drawings of typical seating we'd use and the side aisles will pretty much never change. I think we've got that covered. I think the problem really stems from the fact that there's no one doing anything like what we're trying to do in the area. Not that what we're doing is unheard of, it's just that everyone here is thinking one way, and we're trying to push the envelope a little. Emerging from the steel mill era isn't an easy task around these parts.


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## RickR (Feb 23, 2021)

Pre-designing the aisles is also a trap. The fire marshal expects to see compliance on any visit, no matter what was approved beforehand! 

Given the very low lightl levels required, I'd look for a lower power and cheaper solution than theatrical ellipssoidals. Narrow beam track lights? Mini pendants? Even clip lights! 

Remember the light level doesn't have to go above that extreme minimum. And if your house lights are on the emergency system them the aisle lights don't need to be as well.


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## cbrandt (Feb 23, 2021)

I like track lighting for this. It gives you a permanent item to install, that is focused for specific uses, but can be reconfigured if you do something out of your ordinary arrangements.


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## ACTSTech (Feb 24, 2021)

RickR said:


> Given the very low lightl levels required, I'd look for a lower power and cheaper solution than theatrical ellipssoidals. Narrow beam track lights? Mini pendants? Even clip lights!
> 
> Remember the light level doesn't have to go above that extreme minimum. And if your house lights are on the emergency system them the aisle lights don't need to be as well.



Track lighting might work if I can find something that can be pretty narrowly aimed from 25' above the floor. For the initial shows, I'm curious about some rechargable lights to clip on the chairs. The 3D printed clips would take some design but might make it easier in the long run. I'd like to find those little panel nightlights that I could run off a battery. The emergency lighting will kick in if we lose power, so these would be irrelevant.


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## cbrandt (Feb 24, 2021)

We've used Soraa lamps in a few applications. They offer a wide range of options, and accessories that attach directly to the front of the lamp for beam control. Take a look at their catalog and see if something would work for you.


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## jtweigandt (Feb 24, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> Track lighting might work if I can find something that can be pretty narrowly aimed from 25' above the floor. For the initial shows, I'm curious about some rechargable lights to clip on the chairs. The 3D printed clips would take some design but might make it easier in the long run. I'd like to find those little panel nightlights that I could run off a battery. The emergency lighting will kick in if we lose power, so these would be irrelevant.


I will see if my son (or rather tell him.. I still put a roof over your head) will design a chair leg clip for me with dummy slots for the 110 edison plug.. That would satisfy the mounting requirements for the flashlight, the little panel night light or any number of devices with an integrated male edison. He's pretty quick on the CAD. Heres a battery backed nightlight style with adjustable brightness


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## RonHebbard (Feb 24, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> I will see if my son (or rather tell him.. I still put a roof over your head) will design a chair leg clip for me with dummy slots for the 110 edison plug.. That would satisfy the mounting requirements for the flashlight, the little panel night light or any number of devices with an integrated male edison. He's pretty quick on the CAD. Heres a battery backed nightlight style with adjustable brightness


 *@jtweigandt* On my desktop PC, I'm perceiving a rather LARGE black space on my screen, possibly where I should be seeing an illustration? 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## jtweigandt (Feb 24, 2021)

RonHebbard said:


> *@jtweigandt* On my desktop PC, I'm perceiving a rather LARGE black space on my screen, possibly where I should be seeing an illustration?
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard


It's a link to some stuff on amazon.. I get a graphic... maybe they don't want the Can a Deeeens to know


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## ACTSTech (Feb 24, 2021)

Finally gone public that we're renovating, so I can share this. Doesn't look like much now, but it's a building...


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## aeh20s (Feb 24, 2021)

Is that picture on the easel on the left side of the picture a rendering of the final product? Looks like it'll be a pretty cool space.


ACTSTech said:


> View attachment 21571
> 
> Finally gone public that we're renovating, so I can share this. Doesn't look like much now, but it's a building...


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## ACTSTech (Feb 24, 2021)

aeh20s said:


> Is that picture on the easel on the left side of the picture a rendering of the final product? Looks like it'll be a pretty cool space.


That was the initial rendering that has undergone a million and a half changes but was the start point for donations from the families and foundations. Structurally, it hasn't changed, aesthetically, it's a work in progress.


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## DrewE (Feb 24, 2021)

ACTSTech said:


> Track lighting might work if I can find something that can be pretty narrowly aimed from 25' above the floor. For the initial shows, I'm curious about some rechargable lights to clip on the chairs. The 3D printed clips would take some design but might make it easier in the long run. I'd like to find those little panel nightlights that I could run off a battery. The emergency lighting will kick in if we lose power, so these would be irrelevant.


ETC has track versions of the Source 4 mini available, which might be a reasonable option with their shutters, etc.


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## cbrandt (Feb 24, 2021)

That's a great looking space! Some short track hidden behind every beam (or every other?) could give you a nice invisible place to light aisles from, and give you a high enough angle that they aren't blinding anyone walking up and down.


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## ACTSTech (Feb 24, 2021)

cbrandt said:


> That's a great looking space! Some short track hidden behind every beam (or every other?) could give you a nice invisible place to light aisles from, and give you a high enough angle that they aren't blinding anyone walking up and down.



Unfortunately, those beams are false. They're hiding some rods with turnbuckles attached to the walls. It's basically 1-by creating a trough. The supports on the wall are sturdy, but the spans are decorative. I'm investigating if we can just drill through to get power run by dropping down from the ceiling (also false) and into the trough. It's just a fairly high point (about 20' from beam to floor) to put a light and expect it to illuminate exactly what you want. The walls are solid plaster and metal lath, then brick, then stone, so not punching through those anytime soon.


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## RickR (Feb 24, 2021)

Par20 spots are about 10 degree beams. Simple can heads can be found for well under $20ea. Track and installation are the bigger costs, but still reasonable. 

Put in lots of track, wall to wall! Buy heads as needed. Break up the circuits as budget allows.


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## RonHebbard (Feb 24, 2021)

RickR said:


> Par20 spots are about 10 degree beams. Simple can heads can be found for well under $20ea. Track and installation are the bigger costs, but still reasonable.
> 
> Put in lots of track, wall to wall! Buy heads as needed. Break up the circuits as budget allows.


*@ACTSTech* Some manufacturers offer 2 &/or 4 circuit track (and accessory track selectors) to facilitate extra circuits for extra current &/or independent control / different switches / different dimmers. 
Check with a structural PENG, most track is fairly light, as are some fixtures. Short fixtures, not extending appreciably from the track(s) would add minimal leverage / extraction tension and keep gravitational forces in shear rather than pull out. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## RickR (Feb 26, 2021)

I've mounted track on the side of fake beams made from 1x wood. It works well with small light fixtures such as you need. Frankly it's more likely to strengthen light structures than overload them.
Multi circuit track can be quite a bit more expensive, but breaking up the wiring of long runs is a cheap alternative. Some track allows for wires on the backside! There are many creative accessories to solve a huge range of issues.

Halo, Juno, Lightolier are the big names. Lithonia, Hubbell and all the giant manufactures make good stuff too. Lighting Services Inc. is used in most museums and art galleries, great but expensive. 
Here's a more complete listing: www.lightsearch.com


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2021)

OK first test of concept model. The plug block will be deeper of course, but first testing tolerances and printing thin for speed. 
I gave my design brief to my autistic son. Instead of an all in one, he designed a unit capable of having different clips for
non standard chair leg diameters, a friction fit "bearing" so you can adjust the aim of the light. First iteration done in one evening instead of playing minecraft.

Keep in mind the plug block will be deeper.. shallow is just to save test print time. Really proud of what he came up with. If anyone wants these once the design is tested and refined, I'm sure we could provide at minimal cost. Materials cost will be about 20 grams of plastic .. probably 25 cents in materials.


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## almorton (Mar 4, 2021)

That is actually a *really *neat design.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2021)

almorton said:


> That is actually a *really *neat design.


So we will need the euro plug next?


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## ACTSTech (Mar 4, 2021)

You really shouldn't publish those, some mega corp will end up stealing the design and selling them for a fortune. They look great!

So my chairs are square, how would that change the design?


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2021)

In all seriousness, the kid can design a square clip in about 5 minutes. Eurojack I'd have to dig out my converter I bought to match.
Did you see the diffusion holders he did for me for my blizzard toughstick lights. They worked really slick. Which brings up a question for the powers that be... What are the rules for "cottage" industry here. If I were to offer his design services to solve nagging little problems that we all have with our equipment?


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## almorton (Mar 4, 2021)

jtweigandt said:


> So we will need the euro plug next?


UK 13A BS1363 please


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## jtweigandt (Mar 7, 2021)

Well it's officially a thing.


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## teqniqal (Sep 20, 2021)

Just asking for a follow-up from the OP about how they resolved this.


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## ACTSTech (Oct 6, 2021)

teqniqal said:


> Just asking for a follow-up from the OP about how they resolved this.


Still working through everything. Due to lack of volunteers and pushback from the local government, we're still about 9 months away from opening. The fire marshal won't even consider looking at any drawings, he'll only approve things after they're done, so we're brainstorming. There's nothing in local code so we're at the point where we're not going to worry much about it, there's too much else to worry about.


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