# From full-time to freelance...



## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

Hi everyone. I'm looking at making a career move that may seem a little backwards. I'm looking at quitting a full time production job that pays around 45k per year with benefits (not great benefits, but better than nothing) and going freelance. The money may be right, but the situation is all wrong. I'm 27, not married, no kids. I want to work a different style of show that my company specializes in and tour. It seems like if I don't do this soon I never will.

What sort of things does one need to consider when going freelance? I know most people have a few years of freelance experience under their belt before getting hired full time, but I didn't. I went to college, got a degree in theatrical lighting design, bummed around for a couple of years (read as, "welcome to Radio Shack, can I help you find anything today?") and then this company hired me full time after I worked one job for them. So freelance is new territory for me.

I know there are things like health insurance to consider (do any Chicago area freelancers have any good recommendations?), and of course finding enough work to continue paying the bills. Some people have suggested registering myself as an LLC, getting liability insurance and so forth. Is that necessary or excessive?

What else should I consider? Contracts, rates, other things that aren't surfacing in my mind? Any and all advice is welcome!


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## mstaylor (Nov 18, 2011)

Depends on what you mean by freelance. Are you looking to come in and being a ME or programmer, a board op or a Stage manager? Or are you looking to get on tour as a crew guy or higher. What type of stuff have you been doing, I assume lighting, and what do you want to get into.


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## derekleffew (Nov 18, 2011)

Moving this thread to Education and Career Development.

sclavish, it's a very tough decision, but as you said, perhaps now or never. Don't forget investing and retirement planning. I'd pick up James Moody's book, _The Business of Theatrical Design_, pretty much the only text on the subject. Do you see yourself more as a technician or designer? I'm guessing tech, as there are many more of those than staff design positions. Perhaps that's why you want to switch?

My best advice? Marry rich. It's just as easy to fall in love with a rich person as a poor one.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

Good questions. I currently work as an ME, programmer, and board op for my current company. I also lead crews and although I don't plan shows for my current company I was trained extensively on planning and preparation in college.

I enjoy all of the above, and have worked hard to learn as much as I can about the subjects. I qualify for the ETCP electrical exam, which I plan to take early next year. I also have varying degrees of experience programming Hog, Maxxyz, Avolites, Chamsys, virtually all things ETC, as well as some media server experience (maxedia and hippo).

So I guess ME, programmer, and board op.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

@derekleffew

Good move. This topic makes much more sense here. And I you bring up a good point about tech vs design. I like both, but if I had to choose I'd say designer, but there aren't many opportunities for that. Well, not many paid opportunities anyway.


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## soundman (Nov 18, 2011)

sclavish said:


> What else should I consider? Contracts, rates, other things that aren't surfacing in my mind? Any and all advice is welcome!


 
My personal biggest issue is what to do while your not working. I am wrapping up my third year of freelancing and I still crave a project in my off time. Going from the fast passed world of production to nothing can be a bit of a shell shock. Think of all those days you went into the office with nothing to do so you marked time for 8 hours. Now imagine you have a week of that. 

Also making and keeping contact can be hard. Do you know enough people that have enough work to keep you busy? Making cold calls is not fun, backstagejobs.com can be helpful for finding gigs.


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## Footer (Nov 18, 2011)

The real question is right now... how good are your contacts? Its mid season right now. A lot of the old road dogs are looking for work. Guys that used to play arenas and sheds are now rolling int my venue because not as many tours are on the road. Right now, there is not as much work out there, especially for new people. That being said, if you have amassed a good Rolodex that is all out the window. I am constantly thinking to myself "if they call me tomorrow and say we are closed, who is my first call?". If you don't have an answer to that, you probably should stay where you are and start working jobs on the side until you have those contacts. 

Breaking into the touring life is hard. There are hundreds of guys willing to do anything to get on the road at most shops. At the large audio shop here in town, they just layed off pretty good number of guys because work dried up... and all of these guys were top rate guys.

So, in this economy, I would probably fall on the side of stay were you are, unless you have the connections to start pulling work. You will notice you never see postings online for crew for larger tours... they don't need to do it. You have to know someone to even get in, and after that you have to bust ass and prove yourself. 

Good luck to ya either way.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

soundman said:


> My personal biggest issue is what to do while your not working. I am wrapping up my third year of freelancing and I still crave a project in my off time. Going from the fast passed world of production to nothing can be a bit of a shell shock. Think of all those days you went into the office with nothing to do so you marked time for 8 hours. Now imagine you have a week of that.
> 
> Also making and keeping contact can be hard. Do you know enough people that have enough work to keep you busy? Making cold calls is not fun, backstagejobs.com can be helpful for finding gigs.


 
What to do with my free time is not really an issue. One of the reasons I'm doing this is so that I can better manage my time. I'm under no illusion that I'll have an abundance of free time once I go freelance, I just want to have more control over my schedule.

Making contacts seems to be easy enough in Chicago. Unless I find some way to seriously piss off my current employer I'll still be able to work for them, and they'll definitely be calling be because they know I know how they operate. I've made a couple of other promising contacts, but it's tough to explore other options while working full time for one company. We'll see. I figure between the contacts I've made, the ones I'm likely to make during the interviewing season early next year, and an ETCP certification I won't have trouble finding work. I'll also have enough money saved up to cover me for 3 months with no work at all, so I think I'll manage financially.

I guess my main questions are about insurance, both health and liability, whether or not to file as an LLC, and what steps can be taken if I would like to spend at least some of my time designing as well as teching.

And soundman, might I recommend brewing beer as a hobby? It's great fun and worth every bit of effort you put in to it. That'll help you fill/forget your free time.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

Footer said:


> The real question is right now... how good are your contacts? Its mid season right now. A lot of the old road dogs are looking for work. Guys that used to play arenas and sheds are now rolling int my venue because not as many tours are on the road. Right now, there is not as much work out there, especially for new people. That being said, if you have amassed a good Rolodex that is all out the window. I am constantly thinking to myself "if they call me tomorrow and say we are closed, who is my first call?". If you don't have an answer to that, you probably should stay where you are and start working jobs on the side until you have those contacts.
> 
> Breaking into the touring life is hard. There are hundreds of guys willing to do anything to get on the road at most shops. At the large audio shop here in town, they just layed off pretty good number of guys because work dried up... and all of these guys were top rate guys.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Footer. Busting ass and proving myself has never been an issue. I won't go in to details but simply put most everyone at my current company wanted me fired before they met me, and here I am 2 years later being ME, programmer, leading crews, and earning a higher hourly rate than some people who have been there a decade (but don't tell them that, some of them like me now).

I would love to work odd jobs on the side, the problem is that I get my schedule at most 2 days in advance and even when I ask for time off months in advance I don't get an answer until a week before the date in question. Scheduling at my job seriously sucks. The opportunity to work odd jobs just isn't there. I've interviewed with a couple of places who said they'd love to work with me, but can't offer full time or much at all during the slow winter months. I'm sure I can work with them when business picks up again in the spring, but maintaining contacts with people I've only interviewed with and never worked for is tough. I'm at a point where it seems worth the risk. As stated I'm 27 with no dependents, the only life I can ruin is my own.

Dereklefew did bring up a good point with investments and retirement planning. I haven't done much of this. I know 401k is the usual for those with full time jobs, but what does a freelancer do for retirement planning and investments?


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## Footer (Nov 18, 2011)

sclavish said:


> Dereklefew did bring up a good point with investments and retirement planning. I haven't done much of this. I know 401k is the usual for those with full time jobs, but what does a freelancer do for retirement planning and investments?


 
2 things, first, put away as much money as possible when you can. Second, most stop working the same day their casket gets lowered into the ground.


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## derekleffew (Nov 18, 2011)

sclavish said:


> ...I'll also have enough money saved up to cover me for 3 months with no work at all, so I think I'll manage financially. ...


Suze Orman says everyone, whether currently full-time or otherwise, should have an EIGHT month emergency fund, preferably in laddered, high-yield (yeah, right!) CDs. I'd say more if you're planning on changing cities or a different market/genre. Less if you live with your parents.

See also Getting a Job in the Industry - ControlBooth ; I'm not saying it specifically applies to you. Actually, it applies to *everyone*.

As for managing your time, most of the *good* freelancers (designers, programmers, or technicians) I know work ALL the time. It's easy, and often necessary, to *Never Turn Down a Gig*. Say _no_ to a producer once and you might move _down_ the list. Say _no_ a second time and you might move _OFF_ the list. "If you only did what _you_ wanted to do ... well that's called 'play', not 'work.'"

sclavish said:


> ...the problem is that I get my schedule at most 2 days in advance and even when I ask for time off months in advance I don't get an answer until a week before the date in question. Scheduling at my job seriously sucks. ...


Becoming a freelancer _may_ not change that situation, much. See above. Choosing between something you've had scheduled for months in advance that you really want to do (or attending your grandmother's 80th birthday party/family reunion), and taking a four-day cake gig programming for XYZ Pharma's Conference? Tough choice.

Oh, that all competent people had the "problem" of too much, rather than too little, work.

I think both Brad Schiller and Nook Schoenfeld, and others have talked about the freelance life in their _PLSN_ columns. Might want to search for some of those.


sclavish said:


> ...I know 401k is the usual for those with full time jobs, but what does a freelancer do for retirement planning and investments?


RothIRA should be a priority before 401(k), for everyone. There are other vehicles for self-employed persons; I'm not well-versed on those, however. As a freelancer, you're going to want a good tax-preparer/CPA, (s)he can probably assist with financial planning as well. See this post:

ship said:


> ...I'll PM you contact for a CPA that's on the north side of the city who specilizes in the entertainment industry. She helped me a lot when I was free lance and was very reasonable in rates. Over a normal accountant or CPA, someone who specilizes in what you do will know more about what tricks you can use.
> 
> You might want to do a more coordinated deal with her to take care of your books all year round and financial planning in making it much more easy should you want to stay free lance.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

Footer said:


> 2 things, first, put away as much money as possible when you can. Second, most stop working the same day their casket gets lowered into the ground.


 
HAHA! That sounds about right. I've met a lot of older guys in this business who seem like they will love it to death, literally. I guess that's the reason behind my move, I want to make sure I'm doing something I love until I drop dead from doing it. At my current company I'll probably stop loving it some time next year, at which point I might as well be dead.

My far off backup plan has always been to go back to school. I majored in physics and math for 3 years before switching to lighting. I might as well finish up those degrees as and get the perks of being a student again, then be a grad student with till I die.

But on a more serious note, what retirement funds tend to be good for those who work independently? Mutual funds? It's not like I have enough time to follow the stock market, and I'm a bit weary of handing my finances over to a paid on commission financial planner after witnessing the last 3 years. What do those of you who work independently do, if you don't mind my asking?


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## soundman (Nov 18, 2011)

sclavish said:


> I guess my main questions are about insurance, both health and liability, whether or not to file as an LLC, and what steps can be taken if I would like to spend at least some of my time designing as well as teching.
> 
> And soundman, might I recommend brewing beer as a hobby? It's great fun and worth every bit of effort you put in to it. That'll help you fill/forget your free time.


 
I've thought about that but I have a hard time committing to something that I can't stop doing at the drop of a hat. I worked with someone who home brewed on my last tour. He lived with his folks and one day he got woken up on a day off by a call from home. I guess in a rush to get out the door he bottled the beer two quickly or something and it had started shooting the caps of the bottles creating a mess in the area it was stored. His folks were upset at the mess and he was upset he wouldn't get to sample his creation. 

This goes to show if you wan to tour or gig out of town you don't always get to pick your shifts. I have gotten a call where before I was asked anything else it was how soon can you get to an airport. One can always turn down the work but you never know when the phone will ring next. Also for better or worse three days of work can turn into ten into twenty as the gig goes on. 

Get ready to pay quarterly taxes. When you invoice there will be no taxes taken out. After the first year when you do your taxes you will owe a pretty good chunk of change to the government. Plan for like 20% of your income. That first April not only will you have to give up 20% of your income you will also have to give up another chunk of change to make your first quarter payment. 

Speaking of taxes keep track of all your expenses! come tax time you will get a bit of a break.


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

> Suzy Orman says everyone, whether currently full-time or otherwise, should have an EIGHT month emergency fund, preferably in laddered, high-yield (yeah, right!) CDs.



Eight months of bill saved huh? Hmmm, working here that long might just drive me insane. We'll see what happens.

As for 2 days notice, I can work on that. My company works private events, we don't do concerts, corporate events, theater, touring shows, or anything that I would consider artistic. We don't work with other companies or designers, there are no contacts to be made. If there were I'm pretty sure the people who have been here for 10 years and know more than I do would be long gone.

As I've said I feel it's worth the risk, even without 8 months living expenses saved up.

And thanks for the advice on RothIRAs, plsn, the link to the "getting a job in the industry" post, taxes (20% really? that seems kind of low, I was thinking 30%) and everything else. Thankfully I started collecting receipts this year so I'm already in that habit!

And as for the beer catastrophe, use 5 gallon soda kegs. They won't blow up. Plus you don't have to clean and sanitize 50 bottles every time you brew.


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## soundman (Nov 18, 2011)

If you are looking to tour Playbill had a few listings for theatrical tours Job Category Listing Index: Technical


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## sclavish (Nov 18, 2011)

Thanks soundman.

One thing I'm still wondering is, is it worth registering as an LLC and getting liability insurance? I don't think I know anybody who had done this, and it seems rather unnecessary until you get to the upper levels of this industry. Am I wrong about this?


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## Footer (Nov 19, 2011)

sclavish said:


> Thanks soundman.
> 
> One thing I'm still wondering is, is it worth registering as an LLC and getting liability insurance? I don't think I know anybody who had done this, and it seems rather unnecessary until you get to the upper levels of this industry. Am I wrong about this?


 
I would not worry to much about that until the day that you are doing something on a 1099 that can actually hurt someone. One reason why all rigging should be installed by a company, not some guy who threw some truss and motors in his pickup. 

Another thing to REALLY consider before you make the move is disability. You get hurt on a 1099, your out the door and no one cares. There is no workmans comp. There is no unemployment or disability for the self employed unless you pay for it in advance. So, there is more at risk then just your taxes. Odds are your insurance is going to be terrible and expensive. Get that priced out before you make the move if having insurance is important to you. One freak thing like the kidney stones I had 6 months ago can easily cost you 5k-10k. One guy rolls a case over your foot and your not only out of work for a few weeks but your going to have medical bills to get you back in the game again. 

The salaried gig w/ benefits is a rarity in the business. It is not something I would leave without a lot of thought..... and saving. 

If you don't have the contacts now, you really are going to be starting at the bottom with everyone else. My personal advice is to wait our the economy a bit. In my opinion now is not the time to make a career move if you can avoid it. WAY to many good people are out of work.


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## mstaylor (Nov 19, 2011)

If by freelance you mean you are going to hire on with companies and work under their liability then carrying your own may not be necessary. If you are planning on renting gear and filling riders then yes, it is needed. If you are looking to work as a hand then again it is not needed. If you are tapping power or hanging rigging then I would carry insurance. 
As far as your personal insurance, if you do set up a LLC, INC, or sole porpreitorship business, there are small business co-ops that you can buy insurance at reduced rates like a big business.


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## jstroming (Nov 20, 2011)

One of the best local stagehand companies in the US is in Chicago, Chicago Stagehand. I do about 60 shows a year in different cities across the country (IA and non-IA), and my production guys always rave that they have their **** together and are the best. Having talked to their guys one-on-one throughout the years, they genuinely seem to like working for the company and are happy there. A good indicator is that we consistently see the same guys on gigs year after year.

This could be a side gig that will help cover expenses while you're on the hunt for a more fulfilling job. Since they're a labor company they'll always take resumes, even if you don't work all the time they will call you in for gigs.


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## sclavish (Nov 21, 2011)

Good point on the disability. I know I can get health insurance for 200-300/mo, but I'm not sure if it covers disability or not. I do have to research that more.

It's actually not a salaried position, it's hourly. The benefits suck. I'm still paying over $200/mo out of pocket for my insurance, but it's better than nothing. And there are a number of other reasons I wish to leave this company which I won't go in to detail about here.

As for liability I'm likely to be doing tie-ins and probably some basic rigging, but all under the supervision of someone who works for the company that hired me. I'm not going to be negotiating contracts and bidding on jobs. More like overhire on a day rate through various companies. I shouldn't need liability for that right? Speaking of overhire, I'll still be able to work for the company I'm leaving. They hire on people all the time during the busy season. They know I intend to leave, and we've kept a good relationship going in spite of it. From this standpoint this summer is actually a great time to leave, as I'll still get plenty of work through them if I can't find it elsewhere while having the freedom to cultivate other working relationships, which is the main thing I'm missing right now.

I've worked with Chicago Stagehands before, and the company I work for hires them rather frequently. They're great to work for and work with in my experience. They would be a good secondary job IF I had the opportunity work with anyone other than my current employer, but 60+hr weeks during the summer kind of restrict my schedule.

I've also talked to a few people who have left my company over the past couple of years, and they all say they're much better off. I'm just trying to make sure I have everything together before I do leave. It seems like good health insurance with disability and an adequate amount of work are the main things I need to concern myself with.


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## Footer (Nov 21, 2011)

sclavish said:


> Good point on the disability. I know I can get health insurance for 200-300/mo, but I'm not sure if it covers disability or not. I do have to research that more.
> 
> It's actually not a salaried position, it's hourly. The benefits suck. I'm still paying over $200/mo out of pocket for my insurance, but it's better than nothing. And there are a number of other reasons I wish to leave this company which I won't go in to detail about here.
> 
> ...


 
Good rule of thumb, if you fill out a W-4 and get taxes taken out of your check, you need not worry about liability. If you are under a 1099 and have to file taxes yourself, you need to be concerned about liability. So, as long as you are under someone's flag, your fine. 

As others have said, a good gun for hire is nearly impossible to hire. The best guys on my list with the exception of my heads are nearly impossible to get it for work because they are working so much. People who are good and are available are in demand and get scooped up quick. Work gets out between companies as well. Pull as many calls with your IA local or other labor companies as possible. That will get you in these venues and also get you connections in the network. Attach yourself to the crew heads and make sure they know your name (and for the right reasons). You want to become the answer to the "Hey, do you know anyone who can do ______ this weekend?"

As others have said, never turn down work if you can avoid it. On my list if I have never worked with you, you get two calls and your bumped to the bottom if you have not taken a call. In this business interview tend to happen onsite, and usually within the first 5 minutes of a call. Never forget that. The life of a freelancer is always about whats the next gig and how can I use the people around me right now to get more/better work. 

Also, fire your resume' out to anyone that you think could use it. You would be amazed how often I have gotten a cold resume' at the same time I am trying to fill a call...


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## avkid (Nov 23, 2011)

Footer said:


> Also, fire your resume' out to anyone that you think could use it. You would be amazed how often I have gotten a cold resume' at the same time I am trying to fill a call...


 Never underestimate sending out tons of resumes and Craigslist ads.
One of my most valuable business relationships is the result of answering a somewhat vague Craigslist ad.


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## bishopthomas (Nov 23, 2011)

Whether or not to set yourself up as an LLC or sole proprietorship can be up to your future freelance employers. When I first started doing the freelance thing my main employer wanted me to be a "business" so that it would make 1099'ing me more legitimate. 5 years later and that just made having my own rental company easier to setup. Starting in the freelance world was very scary for me, especially because I moved across the country and had ZERO contacts. I feel like I got lucky; if I could do it again I'm not sure that I would opt to go the freelance route.


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