# High school getting an update!!



## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

Hello everyone,
I help at my old high school with there technical needs for shows and everything. We’re currently in the midst of a Reno and just found out that our space is getting updated so I was asked for a wishlist...
Just looking to see if anyone has any suggestions on anything that I may have missed...

Official wishlist in priority:

Dimmers updated and moved with a dedicated ground
Updated fire alarms(heat detectors?) (including in HVAC?)
Digital sound board with minimum of 42 inputs.
Speakers
New LED lighting
Mic stands and speaker stands
House pot lights on dimmers so can be controlled by DMX
Foyer paging system and Monitors in hallway/change rooms
DMX splitter
4x8 Aluminum risers (minimum 3)
Moving head lights
New follow spots
MacBook with Qlab and show key systems
Haze machine
Mid stage/cyc electrics
Video feed of stage to sides/back/change rooms
Digital snake
Lighting electrics farther into house/ Side of house electrics/ Side stage electrics
8 pack sennheiser rack/ belt packs
New lighting board
Dedicated cyc projector
Dedicated mid stage projector
New deck floor
Assortment of mics and audio cabling
New storage room storage solutions


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## BillConnerFASTC (Nov 23, 2019)

There's probably 50 more other things I'd pick out if I walked in - seating, sightlines, railings, rigging, curtains, acoustics, noise, etc. - but you should consider if you're staying with incandescent and dimmers, or transitioning to all LED. In new build, all LED is probably less expensive than dimmers and incandescent but renovation gets hard if there are major infrastructure pieces that can be reused. I don't think I could get enough answers in a forum like CB - have to see it.


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

I should note that we have an elementary school style stage with gymnasium attached... so our update is mostly just technical and soft goods as the gymnasium needs to remain in full function..


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

not the greatest of photos and they definitely don’t show the entire space but here’s a few from over the years...


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## DrewE (Nov 23, 2019)

I would guess that acoustic treatments might be higher on my list than some new toys.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Nov 23, 2019)

"TRINED AND AUTHORIZED PERSONAL" ?


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## RonHebbard (Nov 23, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> "TRINED AND AUTHORIZED PERSONAL" ?


My city-mate's associates spell as well a some of your posts; the posts you refuse to edit and blame on 'fat-fingered' typing. 
Hayden's not doing too bad for a blacksmith, at least he's not forging weapons on "Forged In Fire"; a least not yet. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

DrewE said:


> I would guess that acoustic treatments might be higher on my list than some new toys.


Would you be able to suggest any acoustic treatments that would be able to withstand the abuse of a high school gymnasium?


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> "TRINED AND AUTHORIZED PERSONAL" ?


Back when I was a student we had one of our new recruits do up the signs... they were all fixed after we had a laugh about it.


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## MNicolai (Nov 23, 2019)

Haydenk said:


> Would you be able to suggest any acoustic treatments that would be able to withstand the abuse of a high school gymnasium?



The slotted concrete blocks provide a degree of absorption though not evenly across the frequency spectrum.

Lapendaries, spray treatments or Tectum panels applied to the underside of the structural deck, baffles hanging from the roof trusses, and high-impact absorption panels are common ways to treat gyms. There are also ways that you can use diffusion panels, arrangements of block/brick, or other materials to knock down echoes and slapback. Flat, parallel surfaces do not make for a particularly musical room because the reflections are so prominent and mess with your perception of where the sound is originating from.

If the project grows to the point where an architect is involved -- which is likely for a project of this magnitude, be mindful that if they cover up or fill in the existing slots in the concrete blocks they will be making the room more lively unless they make up for that absorption somewhere else.

There's also the possibility that you have an acoustic deck ceiling that has absorption built into it. Something that should be verified and incorporated into 
calculations.


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

MNicolai said:


> The slotted concrete blocks provide a degree of absorption though not evenly across the frequency spectrum.
> 
> Lapendaries, spray treatments or Tectum panels applied to the underside of the structural deck, baffles hanging from the roof trusses, and high-impact absorption panels are common ways to treat gyms. There are also ways that you can use diffusion panels, arrangements of block/brick, or other materials to knock down echoes and slapback. Flat, parallel surfaces do not make for a particularly musical room because the reflections are so prominent and mess with your perception of where the sound is originating from.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately our deck is actually a cement deck with linoleum tiles on it and no access to the underside... and I don’t think I’m gonna be able to get them to put a new deck over it..
The entire school got a facelift and upgrades but our part was left until the end to see if there was still money left in the budget(good news, more money in the jar then we originally expected!).
The gymnasium already got its facelift and the blocks have been left the way that they are.
The deck ceiling unfortunately doesn’t have anything built in for absorption either...

I just looked into the lapendary panels and I’ll add these and high impact absorption wall panels as a top 5 on the list.

I hugely appreciate your help and insight!!


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## MNicolai (Nov 23, 2019)

Sorry for the confusion. When I said "Deck" I was referring to the ceiling. The type of ceiling you have is a corrugated steel deck. Sometimes, they have perforations in them with acoustical batting inside.



It comes at a cost premium to a standard steel deck and is not a given that you would have one. Nonetheless, it's important when calculating the decay time of the room and impact of proposed new finishes that the calculation accurately accounts for what type of ceiling is existing. Same goes for the style of slotted masonry you have. Not all are created equal. Some have absorptive material inside, others are just open chambers within.


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## Haydenk (Nov 23, 2019)

MNicolai said:


> Sorry for the confusion. When I said "Deck" I was referring to the ceiling. The type of ceiling you have is a corrugated steel deck. Sometimes, they have perforations in them with acoustical batting inside.
> View attachment 18821
> 
> 
> It comes at a cost premium to a standard steel deck and is not a given that you would have one. Nonetheless, it's important when calculating the decay time of the room and impact of proposed new finishes that the calculation accurately accounts for what type of ceiling is existing. Same goes for the style of slotted masonry you have. Not all are created equal. Some have absorptive material inside, others are just open chambers within.



I’ve been up to the ceiling to run cables and focus in the house and everything, unfortunately it’s just plain old corrugated steel.. 
I’ll have to check out the slotted masonry, off the top of my head I’m pretty sure that it’s just empty block.. 
anything at this point would help because the room is just a complete acoustic mess


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## macsound (Nov 25, 2019)

I know we're all one offing things here but seating helps alot with acoustics as well. More difficult to maintain because of setup and teardown, but padded seats help alot since the floor is reflective.

What is your current lighting system? Number of dimmers and location of circuits and hang points?
What is your current PA? Permanent? Analog?
What is your current projection? Used for theatre or only on screen for presentations? Video in location?
Is there a booth? Connections in the booth vs in front of booth?


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## gbdesign (Nov 27, 2019)

I would bump the new lighting console up towards the top( depending on what you have now) if you are considering LED fixtures. Many more addresses needed than most older/simpler boards offer.


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## Haydenk (Nov 27, 2019)

macsound said:


> I know we're all one offing things here but seating helps alot with acoustics as well. More difficult to maintain because of setup and teardown, but padded seats help alot since the floor is reflective.
> 
> What is your current lighting system? Number of dimmers and location of circuits and hang points?
> What is your current PA? Permanent? Analog?
> ...



unfortunately new seating would be too far past our budget as we often sell out our fire occupancy of 457 chairs.
Currently for lighting we have an ETC element. With 40 dimmers available. We’ve got hang points on one track in house and then a track up stage and down stage. We have 4 circuits just behind the proscenium on both sides. 

The current PA is permanent only in house and is a 70v System that has all blown speakers and gets an interference due to being installed directly beside the dimmer rack on stage.

no projector currently installed, we just acquired a professional Sony projector that hasn’t even been hung yet.

no video.

No booth, we setup a temporary FOH in the back of the gymnasium for shows.


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## Haydenk (Nov 27, 2019)

gbdesign said:


> I would bump the new lighting console up towards the top( depending on what you have now) if you are considering LED fixtures. Many more addresses needed than most older/simpler boards offer.



we currently are running an ETC element with two universes available, our hope was that this would be able to handle everything


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## macsound (Nov 27, 2019)

Thanks for the info. Not sure what the budget is or who's been contracted to do any work or if it's simply an open purchase request but here's my suggestions in order of importance.

Acoustic Treatment
Wiring infrastructure to all potential locations - Booth, Lighting positions, Speaker positions, Backstage panels, existing equipment room.
Additional lighting hang positions that aren't obstructed by the basketball hoop and aren't in the natural trajectory of basketballs

You can buy all the equipment you want, but ultimately if you don't have anywhere to put it or way to feed it signal, its just an expensive toy to use during rehearsal.


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## Ben Stiegler (Dec 2, 2019)

PrimAcoustic makes a special family of gym-tough acoustic panels ... I can help you with sizing, calcs, and budget if you like.


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