# Certifications



## Shawncfer (Jun 6, 2010)

So right now Im a college student, studying for a B.F.A in Technical Theatre Emphasis in lighting.

Well I know I have a while till this comes up, but what kind of certifications do I need?

I know I should join the IATSE, but im not exactly sure how. And I know thats not a certification but still something that I need to do.

But is it necesary to become a Master Electrician? Or become ETCP certified? Any advice???


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## Sony (Jun 6, 2010)

Shawncfer said:


> So right now Im a college student, studying for a B.F.A in Technical Theatre Emphasis in lighting.
> 
> Well I know I have a while till this comes up, but what kind of certifications do I need?
> 
> ...



OSHA, First Aid and CPR Certifications are pretty much the only really required certifications. ETCP is optional and requires a large amount of work experience before you can even apply to take the test. It is however definitely a good thing to have and the highest certification you will find other than being a Master Electrician in itself.

You're comment on IATSE is controversial at best, there are many IATSE stagehands here (myself included) however not everyone believes unions are a good thing. Whether or not you choose to join one is up to you and only you. My personal opinion is I suggest you try it and see if you like it. Personally I find non-union gigs to be more fun and enjoyable but union gigs are usually the big ones and they are fun in their own way. You don't get to know your co-workers as well as you do at smaller gigs though and therefore I find it less personable. Like I said, it's a choice only you can make. There are many people on these forums who hate IATSE and there are others who preach for them. However straight up saying that "you should" join IATSE is likely to get some negative comments. Just thought I should warn you.


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## shiben (Jun 6, 2010)

Sony said:


> You're comment on IATSE is controversial at best, there are many IATSE stagehands here (myself included) however not everyone believes unions are a good thing. Whether or not you choose to join one is up to you and only you. My personal opinion is I suggest you try it and see if you like it. Personally I find non-union gigs to be more fun and enjoyable but union gigs are usually the big ones and they are fun in their own way. You don't get to know your co-workers as well as you do at smaller gigs though and therefore I find it less personable. Like I said, it's a choice only you can make. There are many people on these forums who hate IATSE and there are others who preach for them. However straight up saying that "you should" join IATSE is likely to get some negative comments. Just thought I should warn you.



I agree. See if your local is A: likely have you get in in any reasonable amount of time (like maybe before you graduate grad school), and if they will let you start working for them. I hear that in a lot of places it takes a logn time to get in. Also, expect to roll cases for a LONG time. Our local has you rolling cases for about 4 years (from what I have been told) before you can do anything else (really seems like a poor idea, imo, seeing as a couple of the guys I know there are useless for anything but, and somehow seem to have jobs doing things like rigging and whatnot, its politics at its best!) At any rate, still thinking of joining at the start of next school year, just to get some extra gig time in and gain some more experience. Try it out, whats the worst that happens, you get a fun job?


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## Shawncfer (Jun 6, 2010)

And so how do you Join IATSE.

And call me stupid, but since I'm particularly involved in lighting, Im not sure which type to join?

EDIT:
Okay, So Im guessing this would be the one to join. Mainly because its the only one in San Antonio and it kinda fits my description:
http://www.iatse76.org/news.html
But I still can't find any information on how to join?


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## Footer (Jun 6, 2010)

Shawncfer said:


> And so how do you Join IATSE.
> 
> And call me stupid, but since I'm particularly involved in lighting, Im not sure which type to join?
> 
> ...



You don't have to be IA to find work. In fact, when you are starting out the best work out there for you is not in the IA. Very few IA halls have enough work for anyone to make a living at it. A few halls have enough work for a handful of people to support themselves and all of these guys have been in the hall for 20 years or more. An IA card does nothing for you beyond saying you are in a hall. It is not a license to work or a certification that you know what you are doing. You join IA if you have to/need to. A large majority of IA members don't work more then a handful of times per month. 

Right now you should concentrate on building your resume'. Do summerstock theatre. Work at a theme park. Work with a local community theatre. Give local sound/lighting companies a call and see if they need a hand for the summer. A good resume' is your certification, not a card you carry in your wallet (unless that is an ETCP card... which you can't get yet).


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## Shawncfer (Jun 6, 2010)

Sony said:


> OSHA, First Aid and CPR Certifications are pretty much the only really required certifications.



Are they really required? And what about for me? I'm an undergrad but I do work at a local music venue at nights for some extra cash and I have a summer job at a summer theatre camp for kids. Im not First aid, CPR, or OSHA certified... Is that a problem? Is it something I should work on? Or can it wait until after college?


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## Footer (Jun 6, 2010)

Shawncfer said:


> Are they really required?



No, they are not required unless your employer tells you they are. Having CPR is a good thing to have, but is no means required.


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## shiben (Jun 6, 2010)

Footer said:


> No, they are not required unless your employer tells you they are. Having CPR is a good thing to have, but is no means required.



If your employer wants it or not is a hit or miss thing... At my old venue, the sound engineers had to carry a CPR and First Aid cert, but the Electricians and other lighting technicians didnt, the Ushers didnt, but the guy standing back stage did. The reasoning was that the stagehands and sound engineers were closer to the house than the ushers and electricians...


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## Sony (Jun 6, 2010)

I consider them required personally... you should get them, they will open up doors for you and make you much more desirable from an employers point of view. Would you not want to help a fellow employee if they were hurt or injured? I guess I take back OSHA being required...but it helps and it keeps you safe plus it helps you spot safety issues that need to be fixed.

Another thing that I just remembered is a CDL is nice. If you want to work for a rental house some require a CDL to drive their trucks out on deliveries but not all rental houses require it.


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## Footer (Jun 6, 2010)

Sony said:


> I consider them required personally... you should get them, they will open up doors for you and make you much more desirable from an employers point of view. Would you not want to help a fellow employee if they were hurt or injured? I guess I take back OSHA being required...but it helps and it keeps you safe plus it helps you spot safety issues that need to be fixed.
> 
> Another thing that I just remembered is a CDL is nice. If you want to work for a rental house some require a CDL to drive their trucks out on deliveries but not all rental houses require it.



The CDL is a sticking point for me. If your company requires a CDL to work, they should pay for it, supply the truck to get checked out on, pay for the med card, all that kind of stuff. Don't go out picking up cards to carry in your wallet until you need to get that card. You can drive a 24' straight dual axle truck on a standard license. 

Just a questions... which OSHA certs should a person get? Which level of CPR should a person have? What level of CDL should a person get? I can have a CDL to drive a taxi, that does not mean I can drive a 53' tractor trailer.


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## avkid (Jun 6, 2010)

Footer said:


> What level of CDL should a person get? I can have a CDL to drive a taxi, that does not mean I can drive a 53' tractor trailer.


 Most decent sized production companies have their own straight trucks.
A class B license would be required for these trucks if the GVW is over #26,000.
(I hold a NY Class B license)


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## DanAyers (Jun 7, 2010)

Footer said:


> Which level of CPR should a person have?



Official answer: Ask your insurance company.

Personal answer:
Being a CPR instructor I encourage everyone to obtain _Professional/BLS _Certification. There's a few different reasons but...

You learn 
Adult, Child, Infant and 2-Person CPR. whereas for workplace you only learn Adult-single rescuer. 

The 2-person CPR is critical, and not taught in the CPR for the Workplace courses. The reason it is critical is CPR wears you out. Even doing CPR for 5 minutes will leave you exhausted and the ambulance for most metro areas can take up to 20 minutes. Knowing how to transition between people can help fill the gap.

Also the technique for performing Professional CPR is much better, though it is nothing you can't handle.

The cost is the exact same (unless the individual instructor wishes to charge a little more)
The time commitment is officially 8 hours, though most classes get out early.

Kind of a no-brainer in my book. 


As for ETCP, you don't want to be certified just because you can pass a test. If you don't have significant real-world experience and EXTREMELY STRONG aptitude in Rigging or Electrics I would personally recommend you wait. 

With IATSE Every local office is very different from every other local office. Go introduce yourself, work a couple gigs with them and make your own opinion, do this as early as possible as they usually have a seniority based system, so might as well establish your seniority while you're in school then once you've graduated. Also get to know the people and discover for yourself if it is advantageous to become a member of your local or not. I just hit my 10th anniversary with IATSE 31 this may. There's things I like and things I don't like; but you get that with every business. If you decide to become a member it is largely frowned upon to scab which means to work non-union shows; some unions will fire you for this. You will want to clarify the rules with your local and most likely get prior approval for every non-union show (including no-pay volunteer shows) you wish to participate in that are located within their geographic jurisdiction.


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## LightStud (Jun 7, 2010)

DanAyers said:


> If you decide to become a member it is largely frowned upon to scab which means to work non-union shows; some unions will fire you for this. You will want to clarify the rules with your local and most likely get prior approval for every non-union show (including no-pay volunteer shows) you wish to participate in that are located within their geographic jurisdiction.


This is contrary to my experience. Most IA locals recognize they can only provide full-time, gainful employment to a small portion of their members. For the others, they permit, and possibly even encourage, members to work anywhere they can, as 1) it takes a job away from a non-union worker, 2) it inserts a union-friendly person into an otherwise non-union, possibly anti-union, workplace, 3) they'd rather see you working non-union in the industry than at McDonalds. Note that AEA does not share any of these views for its members.


DanAyers said:


> some unions will fire you for this.


As the union is a collective bargaining unit and NOT an employer, it has no authority to "fire" anyone (other than office and management staff). Under egregious circumstances, one might be expelled from a union, but not fired.


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## starksk (Jun 7, 2010)

Shawncfer said:


> Are they really required? And what about for me? I'm an undergrad but I do work at a local music venue at nights for some extra cash and I have a summer job at a summer theatre camp for kids. Im not First aid, CPR, or OSHA certified... Is that a problem? Is it something I should work on? Or can it wait until after college?



Having worked at summer camps, First Aid is especially useful. CPR/AED can usually be bundled in with the First Aid classes and many camps provide that training to their staff at the beginning of the season. You might see if the camp is providing that training already and would allow you to join.

____________

~Kirk


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## bishopthomas (Jun 8, 2010)

What certification you need will depend solely on your employer, therefore why not wait until your (potential) employer asks for it? I have never had anyone require OSHA, CPR, or other first aid certifications. If they had then I would have pursued it, and still will if it ever comes up. I interviewed for a sound company a few weeks ago that required all their employees to obtain a CDL license within a certain amount of time from being hired. I don't have one, but if I had been hired then I would have a CDL right now.

You're not going to be hired because you have a CPR card. As an interviewer, I might ask you about it out of curiosity, but it wouldn't get you any points for having it. Being an ETCP certified rigger of course would be an excellent thing for your resume, but this takes years to achieve and chances are you will gain the experience while working for a company, so at this point I wouldn't worry about anything ETCP.


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## kendal69 (Jun 8, 2010)

Become a certified Rigger. I was in the business for many years before I took Harry Donavans Rigger ( RIP Harry ) course and I didn't realize how stupid and fly by night I had been doing things. It actually scared me when I started but by the time the course was over you knew enough not to kill you or the guests at any show you're involved with.

It's amazing now how many "riggers" I meet now who really don't know what they are talking about.

Rigging is a science and has a whole lot to do with math. I would never ever hand anything over any humans head without knowing rigging.

I'm not talking hanging some lights with a C clamp, but you need to know rigging even for that.


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## Footer (Jun 8, 2010)

kendal69 said:


> Become a certified Rigger.



In reality, ETCP is there to put a stamp on a person, its not there to teach a person. Really, your goal should be to have the experience in the knowledge to get certified, not to actually get certified. Those are two very different things. If you study the right things you can pass many certification tests without any practical experience. ETCP put the experience section in to avoid some of this problem. The IT field is full of people that took weekend "get your CCNA" courses and got certified and know nothing. Even a certification has to be backed up by a resume'.


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