# Remote Follow Spots



## stewmillsap (Mar 15, 2006)

I was at a dinner theater a few weeks ago and they had a couple of moving heads on the light truss in front of the stage that they were using as follow spots remotely. The light it threw was not as bright as a regular follow, but it was adequate. Has anybody done this and how do you go about it? I would like to use two follow spots for my stage but I need a follow that throws over 150’ and that put the price tag way above my budget.
Keep in mind that I have yet to purchase any kind of control board or dimmers, as of yet, so if there is a particular one that I would need please comment on that also. As usual I need this as cheap as possible.

Thanks, 
Stew’


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## farmerjo1111 (Mar 15, 2006)

The only way that I know of to use Moving lights as follow spots is either to sit at the board and move them manually or with an infared tracking device that the performer wares. I have never seen this device but I have heard of it from other people. Most Likely it was someone sitting at a good moving light board such as a Hog and controlling them manually. 

Hope this helps out.

Dustin Strobush
ETC Systems Group


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## len (Mar 15, 2006)

There's a couple tracking systems. Two were made by Martin, and I think both are discontinued. One involved a body pack worn by the performer, and the lights could track no matter where that performer went. The other involved a laser aiming device. Both were tied in to the console. I've never used either, but I hear they were ok, but not perfect.

I think Wybron also made one. Also idiosyncratic (sp?) from what I hear. I don't know if it's in production any longer either.

Regardless, a tracking system is going to be $$$. Plus, you need a genuine moving light desk to run it. Probably an $5 - $10K Avo at least. Maybe something as inexpensive as LightJockey or HogPC would work, but I don't know. Plus, the cost of the fixture(s) this isn't going to be cheap.


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## soundlight (Mar 15, 2006)

There's one of the Wybron systems up on eBay right now with three beltpacks. It transmits a signal to the recievers and then creates X-Y coordinates and sends them to the lights.


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## jumpjet (Mar 15, 2006)

I want to say that the technobeam-i had beltpack following capabilities as well.


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## BillESC (Mar 15, 2006)

Depending on the light level delivery required, you could probably get away with an Altman Comet followspot for a throw of 150'. For under $ 1000.00 it is a lot cheaper than a moving head, scanner or the control system required for their operation...


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## soundlight (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm partial to the 1000Q myself. We've got two of them at school. I've used comets before, and the ease of use is no where as good as the 1000Q. But both are rock solid fixtures.


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## moojoe (Mar 15, 2006)

yea, but the 1000Q has terrible photometrics. at a 60' throw, i have to dim my stage to see it.

in other words,
yes, there are tracking systems, but they cost thousands plus movers and controller. two followspots that can hit that far will be less then just the movers.


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## stewmillsap (Mar 16, 2006)

Thanks People,
Without direction, a newbie such as myself could get into a lot of trouble. 

Stew'


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## stewmillsap (Mar 16, 2006)

According to the specs at Altman the comet and the 1000Q are only rated to throw 75' and I need one to throw over 150'


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## BillESC (Mar 16, 2006)

In my Altman Dealer Book the photometrics for the 1000Q and Comet are as follows for maximum listed throw:

1000Q - 125' 26 fc
Comet - 150' 36 fc

While I'm at it...

Satellite 1 - 150' 107 fc
Voyager - 150' 378 fc
Exployer - 150' 500* fc

* Estimated, data given for 100' and 200'


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## moojoe (Mar 16, 2006)

according to www.bmisupply.com, a Altman Comet costs $1130, an Altman Satilite costs $4819.
I would suggest two Altman Comets, which include casters and tail. $2260 would be much cheeper then even just one moving profile.


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## stewmillsap (Mar 16, 2006)

Would the 26fc for the 1000Q or the 36fc for the comet be enough to light up an actor with any other stage lights being on?


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## soundlight (Mar 17, 2006)

My 1000Q does that no sweat from about a hundred feet.


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## jonhirsh (Mar 17, 2006)

have you considerd renting? 

I am doing a show in May with 22 mac 2000 profiles which would cost an obseen amount but since im renting it will only cost me 11 grand. 

so you can see that there is the solution to most budget problems rent. 

JH


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## ManOfLights (Mar 24, 2006)

i would recommend any strand boards... i have found them to be really good


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## Footer (Mar 25, 2006)

ManOfLights said:


> i would recommend any strand boards... i have found them to be really good



If you are doing movers you and want to go strand the 500 series is the only way to go... otherwise you will be banging your head on the wall


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## Pie4Weebl (Mar 27, 2006)

jonhirsh said:


> have you considerd renting?
> 
> I am doing a show in May with 22 mac 2000 profiles which would cost an obseen amount but since im renting it will only cost me 11 grand.
> 
> ...


11 grand!? How long are you renting them for?


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## jonhirsh (Mar 27, 2006)

A little more then a week like 9 days. 

JH


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## nez (Mar 30, 2006)

well there are other ways of movin the follow spots like with the school im at we have 3 of the inteligent lightin follow spots that we dont do manualy but we program the follow spots with our board and then all we do is hit go and as long as the actors are on they mark it looks great


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## zcream (May 26, 2011)

For the last post, its a great idea to use a pre-programmed DMX instead of manually following the actors. 

Can I confirm what setup was used ? 
I'd assume 2-3 DMX followspots, perhaps a wireless DMX controller, and what method was used to pre-program them ?


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## porkchop (May 26, 2011)

nez said:


> well there are other ways of movin the follow spots like with the school im at we have 3 of the inteligent lightin follow spots that we dont do manualy but we program the follow spots with our board and then all we do is hit go and as long as the actors are on they mark it looks great


 
The key point there is that the actors are on their mark, even with good professional actors that is not always the case, and for one offs or things like that pre-programming is often times not really worth the effort. One of the shows the company I work for tours uses an inferred tracking system. And basically all the feedback I get is that it functions. It's moody, not easy to calibrate, and will only ever be as good as the Lighting Board controlling the moving lights, but in the end is does get the job done (usually). The motion of the moving lights themselves can also make for undesirable jumpiness. FWIW none of our other shows use this technology (it was kind of an experiment that they decided wasn't worth it). They still use it on that show 3 years later though.

So basically to sum it up if you have a decent console and some decent moving lights to use as auto spots and you take the time to calibrate the system well it can work. Depending on what you have for equipment, and what your budget for equipment vs. available time to spend messing with it, auto tracking lights might work for you, but the industry as a whole seems to agree that in the end a standard follow spot and a good operator are the way to go.

To talk money real fast, if you have yet to buy a control board or dimmers, I'm going to guess you have also not bought any moving lights. The first add to come up for "Super Trouper Follow Spot" is a 2k LT for sale at $5k. That follow spot is more that what you need for a 150' throw and I doubt highly that you could buy a board, a fixture, and the tracking system, plus get power to the where you need it for less that $5k. If your looking to go for cheap I would say start shopping around for a used follow spot.

AFTER THOUGHT: Same website has 5 Comet 1000Q's for sale, one that is probably used with case, lamp, and stand for $615, and 4 that I would guess are brand new with stand and a warranty for $1,162.70. Here's the link: http://www.gearsource.com/catalog/stockItem/1000W-Quartz-Follow-Spot


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## derekleffew (May 26, 2011)

We DO realize that the original post was over five years ago, right? Okay then, that being said, a couple of points I don't think have been mentioned...

stewmillsap said:


> I was at a dinner theater a few weeks ago and they had a couple of moving heads on the light truss in front of the stage that they were using as follow spots remotely. The light it threw was not as bright as a regular follow, but it was adequate. Has anybody done this and how do you go about it? I would like to use two follow spots for my stage but I need a follow that throws over 150’ and that put the price tag way above my budget. ...


1. I believe the only current product allowing an ML to automatically follow a performer is the Wybron Autopilot II, which starts at ~$35,000.
2. There is no moving light that offers intensity or resolution making it appropriate to replace a manual followspot at a 150' throw.


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## shiben (May 26, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> We DO realize that the original post was over five years ago, right? Okay then, that being said, a couple of points I don't think have been mentioned...
> 
> 1. I believe the only current product allowing an ML to automatically follow a performer is the Wybron Autopilot II, which starts at ~$35,000.
> 2. There is no moving light that offers intensity or resolution making it appropriate to replace a manual followspot at a 150' throw.


 
I have seen quite a few concerts come thru tho with moving heads with the pan/tilt motors taken out, and then handles added to the front of them. Then the light gets popped on the truss, and an operator gets popped on the truss right behind it. Only real advantages I could see to this system would be the ability to use all the functions of the ML, and be able to dim them at the same time...


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## jstandfast (May 26, 2011)

shiben said:


> Only real advantages I could see to this system would be the ability to use all the functions of the ML, and be able to dim them at the same time...


 In conversations with followers of this ethic two others have been mentioned :
A) you get the "live" feel of a truss spot while keeping all the ML gags.

B) You reduce the operators tasks down to Just Pointing The Light, no iris, no color
moves,no fades/restores. This makes some touring folks very happy.


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## techieman33 (May 27, 2011)

jstandfast said:


> In conversations with followers of this ethic two others have been mentioned :
> A) you get the "live" feel of a truss spot while keeping all the ML gags.
> 
> B) You reduce the operators tasks down to Just Pointing The Light, no iris, no color
> moves,no fades/restores. This makes some touring folks very happy.


 
That scares the crap out of me, you never know what kind of quality you'll get with local spot ops, they could be off in la la land when the light comes up and looks very stupid pointed at a wall. I'm a firm believer that the spot op should have control of the spot being on or off.


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## chausman (May 27, 2011)

techieman33 said:


> That scares the crap out of me, you never know what kind of quality you'll get with local spot ops, they could be off in la la land when the light comes up and looks very stupid pointed at a wall. I'm a firm believer that the spot op should have control of the spot being on or off.


 
I aggree. It's to easy now for spots to not listen. Having no control of the beam other than focus, would be (IMO) more aggravating then anything.


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## DuckJordan (May 27, 2011)

techieman33 said:


> That scares the crap out of me, you never know what kind of quality you'll get with local spot ops, they could be off in la la land when the light comes up and looks very stupid pointed at a wall. I'm a firm believer that the spot op should have control of the spot being on or off.


 

Or have a stage manager who actually calls a heads up once or twice. Most the time there is an issue between communication and not that its all the spot ops fault. I've been involved with several shows where the stage manager didn't bother to warn us that the lights are coming up and we should be on our actors. short story, they were fired because they felt we should know the one off show just as much as they did.


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## techieman33 (May 27, 2011)

Good communication helps, but isn't always going to be a guaranteed thing, what happens when a belt pack fails during a show? What if it's just really loud in the venue and you can't hear each other well? Just to many chances for it to be worth it to me.


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## Ludwig (May 27, 2011)

Hi guys,

Most of the Robert Juliat followspot have DMX option to control light intensity from the console.
We have design a system with 2 DMX channels: first channel is giving the minimum and second one the maximum of the dimmer shutter. So the operator is still able to operate but only between a minimum and maximum level controlled by the console.
Just use the second channel to fade in or fade out all the spots simultaneously! In case of DMX failure, the operator has automatically the full control of the spot.
...and the new system allows to power directly a front scroller to control colours from the console.
Let the FS operator doing his job, but take control of the spot if something is going wrong...


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## icewolf08 (May 27, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Or have a stage manager who actually calls a heads up once or twice. Most the time there is an issue between communication and not that its all the spot ops fault. I've been involved with several shows where the stage manager didn't bother to warn us that the lights are coming up and we should be on our actors. short story, they were fired because they felt we should know the one off show just as much as they did.


 
For a one-off type show where you may not have had any real rehearsal time with the spot ops, having someone call cues or at least explain to the ops what is going on is a must. However, for a show that has a good tech process and a long run, you shouldn't need to have the SM calling cues all the time. This is mostly because A) the the SM probably has a to of other cues to deal with, B) Spots are almost always coming on and off with LX cues that are already called, and C) it is way too much information to have to relay each performance. Sometimes you may have an ALD or head spot who calls cues, though this is only practical when you have a separate channel on coms for spots. Sometimes all that person is doing is making sure that all the spots fade together, or troubleshoots when one unit has an issue and someone else needs to sub in.

If you are spot op and your spot is dimmed by the lighting console, then there shouldn't really be a need for a specific warning for you that a cue is coming up. The SM should be calling a STANDBY and GO for the light cue which you should be listening for. If you are off in lala-land, it isn't the SM's fault you missed your cue.

Point being, as a spot op, you should have good enough notes and be paying enough attention to run your show without having someone call cues. One of the first shows that I worked on as a spot op, my headset got fried on opening night. I couldn't hear any cues being called, but I didn't miss any because I had actually taken notes.


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## Pie4Weebl (May 27, 2011)

chausman said:


> I aggree. It's to easy now for spots to not listen. Having no control of the beam other than focus, would be (IMO) more aggravating then anything.


 
But, saw it was a large arena show and there are say 4 truss spots, one for each member of the band. Each spot would be tasked with following one person the whole night and thats it.


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## chausman (May 27, 2011)

Pie4Weebl said:


> But, saw it was a large arena show and there are say 4 truss spots, one for each member of the band. Each spot would be tasked with following one person the whole night and thats it.


 
I don't see that as a problem, it the theater shows (like what I'm doing now...) where we have two spots, and have about 14 people who get spotted throughout the show. 


And I though of another reason not to want remote controlled follow spots (assuming you were going to purchase something) what if the console were to lock up like in the Strand EMERGENCY thread and you need to use follow spots to light the stage?


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## mstaylor (May 28, 2011)

As a supplier of local hands, including spot ops, we do almost all one offs. They are either concerts or theatre productions, we have used the mover/spot combo numerous times. Since we have no rehersal or knowledge of the show it does require spot cues, but in my mind it is no different than running a regular spot. The only downside I see is they get hot as the dickens.


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## Axislights (May 29, 2011)

I use the moving lights as truss spots almost exclusively. I have found that it is way easier for the operators as I only give them one thing to think about. Since proper followspot technique is a dying art. The operators I get at venues get worse and worse. I love having the ability to fade color in and out on que and having a proper fade out. I always have inhibitives on the console so i can take out an errant spot if I need to, but honestly I can only think of it happening once in the last 3 years or so. The other big advantage, especially to touring is that I control when the lamp was last changed, and I carry spares. I can tell you how many times I get to a a venue and I'm told that one of the spots blew up last week and now I'm down one because it requires an act of god to replace the it since it's in a suspended cage below grid level. Or you get 4 2k spots that are 400' away and by the time the light gets to the stage my mag light works better. As I always tell the operators that if com goes out during the show to follow their primary targets when I do lose it (and I have) the show was unaffected.


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## mstaylor (May 29, 2011)

techieman33 said:


> That scares the crap out of me, you never know what kind of quality you'll get with local spot ops, they could be off in la la land when the light comes up and looks very stupid pointed at a wall. I'm a firm believer that the spot op should have control of the spot being on or off.


I don't where you guys are getting spot ops from but the area I live is small and I have at least 15 ops I would put on anything. When I go to other areas I see some excellent ops. I work one venue where that isn't true but they are state employees that have no business anywhere near a spot.


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