# Large Format Printing



## jtweigandt (Aug 5, 2017)

Has anyone here used a service to do a backdrop using large format printing of your design. How did it go? Looking at probably a 12x35 size


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## Amiers (Aug 5, 2017)

Unless it was drawn in vector, some specific techniques that could be done by hand won't translate very well when it comes time to blow it up and it will be very pixelated if not done right. 

Curious as to why you would go this route versus having someone just traditionally paint it.


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## jtweigandt (Aug 5, 2017)

Our long term scenic painter at our community theater is now facing more age related physical limitations
Very talented man, but getting to where he may not be able to complete the big drops any more. Folks who can paint effectively
on large format like that are getting fewer and farther between in our setting.


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## Amiers (Aug 5, 2017)

Yeah that is for sure. 

I only know a handful myself. Most have moved on from the Midwest or I would offer up some names. 

Well an alternative to using a printer would be projections. At least that way you could have something that you can use all the time versus a one time drop. The initial cost and setup would be a spike but in the long run would save over time when all you have to do is make some high res images. 

Maybe others from the area can offer some scenic artists.


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## RonHebbard (Aug 5, 2017)

jtweigandt said:


> Has anyone here used a service to do a backdrop using large format printing of your design. How did it go? Looking at probably a 12x35 size


 @jtweigandt Short answer: No!
Longer answer: I did electrical installation work for several printing shops in my area. One of the printers had a room where they specialized in printing roll-fed stock. In the roll-fed room, they had three roll-fed printers each capable of running stock up to 16' wide by practically any length. If they needed to print wider than 16', they'd print several lengths then seam the pieces. The roll-fed room had two primary clients: 1; Was a company producing surfaces for LARGE internally illuminated billboards. Think the sorts of billboards that line the sides of six and eight lane divided highways and are designed to be internally back-lit after sunset and front-lit during the day. 2nd; was a company producing banners to hang across main streets of cities proclaiming various celebratory weeks or proclaiming candidates for elections. The three printers were always busy printing but much of their output required precise seaming which was a much slower / labor intensive process. The seaming was carried out face down with the final product being hung from an electrically operated line-set for final inspection. 
If the seaming was perfect, the work was rolled for shipping. 
If the seaming was close, the product would be lowered to a height where a graphic artist would do cosmetic touch-ups across the entire width / length of the seam(s). 
If the seaming was a total bollocks, they'd crumple the flawed product into a dumpster and print two or three more rolls. 
I found their materials interesting: 
Some materials were designed for front lighting only.
Some materials were designed to be both back and front lit.
Some materials had very large perforations to allow them to span multi-lane streets on windy / stormy days.
Another material had very fine perforations so you could read the printing yet shift focus and see through the surface to things beyond. 
This latter perforation was popular in stores with escalators where the banner would be promoting something yet they wanted you to see through the banner to where things were situated in the store while you were riding down the escalator to a lower level.
The roll-fed materials were primarily various types of plastics and the seams were normally ultrasonically welded thus non-separable, non-repairable and watertight. Whenever they totally botched a seaming job, a very large piece of plastic would hit the dumpster. Anytime I needed a very large drop cloth, I had the printer's permission to take any of their botched seamed goods out of their dumpster so long as I left it neat when I was finished digging and didn't leave hunks of plastic blowing in the winds. One of our local amateur theaters found this extremely useful. They would clear their flat-floored auditorium and cover the neatly polished tiled floor with a large chunk of incorrectly seamed plastic then use the space as a painting area without having to worry about getting spills or over-spray on the floor tiles. Another good use was covering park lawns for picnics. after it had rained the day prior.
*BOTTOM LINE*: Find whoever's printing internally illuminated highway billboards in your area and you've probably found yourself a lifetime source of free drop cloths.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## techieman33 (Aug 5, 2017)

A local ballet company had one printed last fall. It ended up looking really good. It was 21x50 and all one piece of IFR fabric. I'm not sure who did it though, I'll see if I can find out.


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## Footer (Aug 5, 2017)

Printed backdrops are quickly becoming the norm. They look great. However, you need to have a graphic artist work with you on them. Any of the shops who own a printer will also be able to do the processing on it for you. Most if not all of the dance competitions and companies that come through have digitally printed drops and they look fantastic. They are much easier to handle, weight less, and wrinkles just pop out of them. Rosebrand does this as does many of the other backdrop shops.


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## SteveB (Aug 5, 2017)

I was going to suggest jobbing out to a shop that can paint from a rendering.

Cobalt Scenic comes to mind, in upstate NY

http://www.cobaltstudios.net/

They're a school as well so might not charge you what a "real" shop might charge.


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## SteveB (Aug 5, 2017)

Footer said:


> Printed backdrops are quickly becoming the norm. They look great. However, you need to have a graphic artist work with you on them. Any of the shops who own a printer will also be able to do the processing on it for you. Most if not all of the dance competitions and companies that come through have digitally printed drops and they look fantastic. They are much easier to handle, weight less, and wrinkles just pop out of them. Rosebrand does this as does many of the other backdrop shops.



I'm curious as to what print method is used ?. Multiple panels joined ?.

EDIT: OK just asked the wife as they do large'ish format prints at the CBS shop in NYC, of 101" x any length. They did a recent 12 ft x 36 ft. Apparantly they steam/glue sections. Other specialty shops do much larger formats.


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## Footer (Aug 5, 2017)

SteveB said:


> I'm curious as to what print method is used ?. Multiple panels joined ?.
> 
> EDIT: OK just asked the wife as they do large'ish format prints at the CBS shop in NYC, of 101" x any length. They did a recent 12 ft x 36 ft. Apparantly they steam/glue sections. Other specialty shops do much larger formats.



I was going to say... you are married to a scenic artist last time I checked... ask her "how'd dey dook der jobs".


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## SteveB (Aug 5, 2017)

Footer said:


> I was going to say... you are married to a scenic artist last time I checked... ask her "how'd dey dook der jobs".



I asked and am still impressed that they have printers this big. 

But then computer graphics is a whole different part of the United Scenic Artists.


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## Amiers (Aug 5, 2017)

That's why I suggested an artist or projector setup. Cause a graphic artist to do something of that scale I would think would be twice as much then you gotta pay for the print job and shipping if you get it done outta state. It just doesn't seem cost effective unless you live in a state that has the capability of printing something and pick it up. 

I would shoot for the moon and see if your scenic artist will train someone's kid or someone else involved in the community theater program to help out and learn to paint on a big scale.


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## RonHebbard (Aug 6, 2017)

Amiers said:


> That's why I suggested an artist or projector setup. Cause a graphic artist to do something of that scale I would think would be twice as much then you gotta pay for the print job and shipping if you get it done outta state. It just doesn't seem cost effective unless you live in a state that has the capability of printing something and pick it up.
> 
> I would shoot for the moon and see if your scenic artist will train someone's kid or someone else involved in the community theater program to help out and learn to paint on a big scale.


 @Amiers , @steve b. , @Footer , @techieman33 , @jtweigandt , 
Purely idle curiosity here. The printing shop I was doing electrical work for had three roll-fed printers each printing 16' wide by essentially any length. They were printing on a variety of rolled plastic stock. Anytime they needed to print wider than 16', they printed multiple lengths and ultrasonically welded the seams into permanently bonded panels. A graphic artist would inspect and touch-up the seams. Seaming was time and labor intensive and performed face down with projected laser guide lines. After seaming, the finished products were hung from an electrically flown pipe with every seam being inspected, and touched up if required. Much of their work was for LARGE, highway-side billboards front lit by the sun during the day and rear-lit by internal illumination overnight. The printers were amazingly quick. The seaming was tediously slow.
HERE'S MY IDLY CURIOUS QUERY: How wide are multi-color roll-fed digital printers out to now a days?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.


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## Amiers (Aug 6, 2017)

Seems like 16-17' is the standard size. From textile to Vinyl

http://bigpicture.net/content/gandy-reveals-widest-textile-printer-world



Next size down for flatbed printing. Hardboard and such



Shits addicting to watch late at night after a few beers. It puts you in a trance watchers beware.


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## josh88 (Aug 6, 2017)

SteveB said:


> I was going to suggest jobbing out to a shop that can paint from a rendering.
> 
> Cobalt Scenic comes to mind, in upstate NY
> 
> ...



I actually sat in on a panel at USITT a few years ago about the debate between painting and printing and rachel from cobalt was one of the people speaking. I think she was the one suggesting that its not that hard to get something printed, throw a scenic on it to add a little more painted on texture on top of it and you can get some of the aspects of hand painted stuff we like and soften a little of the photorealism. Cheaper than painting something from scratch. It was an interesting panel, though at that time the largest available print size wasn't quite as large as it is today.


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## Theresa (Aug 7, 2017)

http://scenicguild.org/2017/08/cant-we-just-get-it-printed/


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## Amiers (Aug 7, 2017)

Somebody is keeping up with our conversation and writing blogs about it. 

When I was learning graphic design the standard was 300 dpi for standard posters from the printing press and 75 was for your basic JPG web photo. So I'd be curious to see how well something at 75dpi would look at 30 feet away. Personally I would feel it to be rather blocky and lose any kind of round edge without some sort of touch up afterwards.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Aug 7, 2017)

Good article. I wish she hadn't referred to a 1:10 scale a 1" = 1'-0". Could be an editor I suppose.

This is great stuff but an idea of cost? I looked into this several years ago and it seemed over $10k for a full stage drop.

I'm still hoping for a full stage led display as the ultimate. Projectors have too many lmitations for regular full stage backdrop use imho.


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## microstar (Aug 7, 2017)

About five years ago I got a backdrop printed. It was only 10' wide and 12' high and printed on "vinyl mesh" for around $270 including shipping if I remember correctly. I turned out great for my purpose. Found it also could work well as a scrim, which would make it an even bigger bargain. 

www.echodgraphics.com in NYC did it and they were extremely helpful. Learned a couple of things: your JPG or file needs to be very detailed. A local sign company person who did billboards worked with me and took my original 2 mb photo and somehow increased it to 445mb. She displayed a small sample of it full size on a monitor so I could see what it would look it when enlarged. The lighting for the photo below is a little dim.
Also, the echodgraphics people take all Jewish holidays off, which almost wrecked the tech schedule for my production. They print these mesh banners big enough to hang on skyscrapers, so mine was a piece of cake and I got it back a day early. 
They have calculators on their website so you can easily find out the options and costs of your sign/banner/drop before ordering. One other caveat... they have to fold large drops to fit in a box, and the creases are very hard to remove.


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## SteveB (Aug 7, 2017)

Theresa said:


> http://scenicguild.org/2017/08/cant-we-just-get-it-printed/



Good read.


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## SteveB (Aug 7, 2017)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> G
> 
> I'm still hoping for a full stage led display as the ultimate. Projectors have too many lmitations for regular full stage backdrop use imho.



The Celine Dion Las Vegas show (maybe Elton John in this space as well) had a 40 x 120ft LED wall, that was in '03

Christie did a 20 ft. x 220 ft in LV in 2016

https://www.christiedigital.com/en-...gate-tops-the-standings-with-super-sportsbook

Seemingly pretty common these days., just super expensive.


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## David Hyde (Aug 9, 2017)

I'm late to the party, sorry, just saw this one in the weekly email and thought I would add my thoughts. I have a company in Johnson City, TN, Hampton Textile Printing. I have used them for years. They do large fabric printing up to 126" wide using heat transfer. It's really affordable, depending on size its $15 to $60 a yard. They take payments via PayPal on their site and will do tax exempt as well as drop ship anything you want to be printed. They can send you samples of fabrics they print on as well. If you have ever seen the drapes in Holiday Inn or Marriot this is the place its printed from my understanding. http://www.hamptonprints.com/

Feel free to look at my portfolio (Shrek and Tom Sawyer) for some examples. http://dhyde84.wixsite.com/main/portfolio

Also Artisan Center Theatre in Hurst, TX started using them when I was there, they still do. They use them now to print their floors and then they glue and poly them down. 

I learned about this company from Jonesborough Repertory Theatre in Jonesborough, TN. They have an 8 roll drop setup that I designed for Shrek, the designer of the show did all the drops in Photoshop and send them to Hampton via email and had all of them within a week. 

You can look at Jonesborough and Artisan both on Facebook for examples.


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## anshu (Aug 9, 2017)

This happens all the time now in my estimation. Either working from an original hand painted/created artwork or fully digital. You need to know your viewing distances and lighting but this is becoming more and more the norm as the cost of painted drops in the city are getting really pricey. Also I do this all the time for scenic pieces that have to have "artwork" or a detailed flat surface, print cut out and apply.

There are lots of levels, from echod>rosebrand>enchance a color etc. Depending on your budget.


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## norwintd (Aug 10, 2017)

I have used digitally printed drops from Jaduke Scene shop www.jaduke.com/sceneshop/index.html They have looked fantastic. They are dye sublimation printed on a lightweight fabric not vinyl. They are seamed horizontally in five foot high sections but completely unnoticeable on stage.


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