# Red Dot Scope for Followspots



## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

Hey guys. I wondered if you had any opinions on mounting red dot scopes for use on followspots. The idea never occurred to me, until I stumbled across two on the internet. The telrad, seems to be popular, and the Spot Dot. I know you can buy cheap cheap cheapo red dot scopes for 9.99. Is there any advantage to getting the telrad or spot dot over the cheapo ones? Is there any advantage to these at all? I'm spurred to get these after seeing the performance of our followspot ops during the last performance. They looked like, and I quote: "spastic bumblebees". I hope that a scope might make them a little more proficient with their instrument. Thought anyone?

Thanks, Charlie


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## DHSLXOP (Mar 18, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Hey guys. I wondered if you had any opinions on mounting red dot scopes for use on followspots. The idea never occurred to me, until I stumbled across two on the internet. The telrad, seems to be popular, and the Spot Dot. I know you can buy cheap cheap cheapo red dot scopes for 9.99. Is there any advantage to getting the telrad or spot dot over the cheapo ones? Is there any advantage to these at all? I'm spurred to get these after seeing the performance of our followspot ops during the last performance. They looked like, and I quote: "spastic bumblebees". I hope that a scope might make them a little more proficient with their instrument. Thought anyone?
> Thanks, Charlie



I couldn't help you on the brands (but as always, the more you pay, the better they'll be), but I'm 100% positive that they do wonders (especially if you're spots are high up) I work at 3 different theaters (2 of them are cheap, community theater theaters, and the other one is more professional), and the 2 community theater ones don't have spot dots. When I did a show at the community theater, my spot operator was having a lot of trouble finding the performer, and staying on them the entire time. But when we do shows at the professional theater, the spot ops are right on since they can tell what they are hitting, before they light the person. (instead of just aiming and running the risk of hitting a set piece instead of the performer) Since you said that your spots are "spastic bumblebees" i would definitely go with spot dots to ease this problem (please know though, they do take a little bit of time to get used to) Hope this helps!


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## DarSax (Mar 18, 2007)

Semi hijack, I still don't know how in the f--- a spot dot works. Is it just a lit crosshair for a spot? I don't get the point of a lit LED that "doesn't project light beyond the spot."


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## DHSLXOP (Mar 18, 2007)

DarSax said:


> Semi hijack, I still don't know how in the f--- a spot dot works. Is it just a lit crosshair for a spot? I don't get the point of a lit LED that "doesn't project light beyond the spot."



I don't know if this is what you're looking for, but basically its a little tube that the spot light operator looks into. In that tube, is a little LED light. If you need to light the soloist stage left, for example, you look through the spot dot to find the soloist. When you find him/her, you aim the follow spot so that the dot is in the center of their body. When you open up the shutter (i believe thats what its called) of the spot, the spot is on that person. As long as you keep the dot in their center, the spot will always be on them. I hope this makes sense and is what you wanted to know.


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## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

I'll try and add a little DHSLXOP's post to clear up any ambiguity.

These types of scopes are referred to as "Red Dots". A red dot scope is most commonly found on sub-machine guns and assault rifles. Typically, these scopes will have attach to a weaver rail. These red dots cost hundreds of dollars. Basically, as aforementioned, it's a small tube with an led projecting onto a piece of plastic. Often selectable intensities and color selection are included. It is common for these red dots to have a slight magnification, on the order of 1.5x. This makes spotting targets slightly easier. Unlike iron sights, a red dot only gives you one point of reference. This means it is important that the calibrate and use the sight with the same eye angle/position. You can calibrate the sight with small screws, that will move the dot up/down and left/right. These types of sights, when used with followspots are gaffed on, or have magnetic bases. calibrate your sight to the center of the light. Calibrate it with the light onstage. To use the red dot, identify who you need to light. Place the red dot where you want the center of the light to be, take off the douser. Tada, the light is now more or less on the mark. Now you can fine tune your position, ignoring the dot completely.


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## SteveRader (Mar 18, 2007)

I've used the spotdot for sometime. It does make a difference, especially when working in community or high school theaters with less experienced operators. Bit pricey for a scope, but does work wonders.


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## Foxinabox10 (Mar 18, 2007)

Here's a possible cheaper alternative:

http://www.telescopes.com/products/telrad-telrad-reflex-sight-with-mounting-base-37744.html


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## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

Foxinabox10 said:


> Here's a possible cheaper alternative:
> http://www.telescopes.com/products/telrad-telrad-reflex-sight-with-mounting-base-37744.html



Yep. That would be the telrad. It seems to be like the spot dot is a better choice though.


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## Dillon (Mar 18, 2007)

I've got a pair of Telrads on my spots. They work wonders and make even the novice spot operator look like a pro. They project a nice little red target onto an angled piece of tinted glass. They mount quite nicely onto our spots -- a couple self-tapping screws into each mounting plate into the spot bodies. They also have three little thumscrews to configure the target's aim. Never used a spot-dot, but same principle.


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## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

Thanks for all the input so far. I'm torn between which sights to throw my money at. I think these are worthwhile enough, and cheap enough, to spend my own money on 'em. I'm still not sure which to get though. I really don't care about the money, just which are gonna be better to use.

Edit:

Here is something I didn't even consider. From your experience, where is the best position to mount these? If it makes a difference, I'll be mounting these on two Lycian Model 1206 Midget followspots.


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## SteveB (Mar 18, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Thanks for all the input so far. I'm torn between which sights to throw my money at. I think these are worthwhile enough, and cheap enough, to spend my own money on 'em. I'm still not sure which to get though. I really don't care about the money, just which are gonna be better to use.



Professionally, I see mostly Telrads, which work very well. 

A great mounting method is as follows:

1) Find a small camera tripod, about 6 inches long, made from 3 legs of flexible gooseneck with a standard threaded camera mount. Here's a typical: http://www.wolfcamera.com/product/291660447.htm?bct=;citripods

2) Home Depot and McMaster-Carr sell small round magnets with a center hole. Buy 3 of the roughly 2" round versions

3) Drill a hole in the bottom of the Telrad and bolt the camera tripod mounting bolt thru and onto the Telrad. It helps to use a nylon insert nut for this to keep it tight. 

4) Remove the rubber feet on the bottom of ea. leg and use a self tapping sheet metal screw to mount the magnets onto the tripod.

You can now simply pop the magnet/tripod with Telrad on to the follow spot, removing as needed. 

SB


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## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

SteveB said:


> Professionally, I see mostly Telrads, which work very well.
> A great mounting method is as follows:
> 1) Find a small camera tripod, about 6 inches long, made from 3 legs of flexible gooseneck with a standard threaded camera mount. Here's a typical: http://www.wolfcamera.com/product/291660447.htm?bct=;citripods
> 2) Home Depot and McMaster-Carr sell small round magnets with a center hole. Buy 3 of the roughly 2" round versions
> ...



Sounds exactly like the spot dot already is. I think that's the option I'm gonna try. I mean, after all the cost and effort of mounting the telrad, they'll even out.


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## DarSax (Mar 18, 2007)

Natch, the Telrad says you can install it with double-sided tape and it'll work. Granted, the included tape would probably melt in about 30 seconds, but I'd just look into a magnet you can screw through. I don't see why it would work any less effectively then a tripod?

P.S. Y'all could have just said "reflex sight" and I would have immediately understood


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## KaR356i (Mar 18, 2007)

we have two 'spot dots' at the roadhouse I work at. I'd never used one before I started working there, and it is helpful to find someone in dim light before you turn it on, or to follow someone when there's tons of light on stage.... However-

The spot dots, in my opinion, are difficult to look through if you aren't used to it, the light is not very bright, and the batteries run down often because it's very easy to think you have the switch all the way off when it is really still on. Ours have magnets on them, but you still have to tape the heck out of em to get em to stay. They often move after you have them sighted in. All in all, I don't like them. 

The Telrads have come through with a few different touring shows. They are MUCH easier for new spot ops to learn with, have a bigger target area, brighter light, and very simple to sight in. They are bigger and therefore don't move as easily after you sight them in- if they do, they are much simpler to re-adjust

There's my two cents


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## avkid (Mar 18, 2007)

Spot dot:
http://toolsforstagecraft.com/n307.htm


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## Charc (Mar 18, 2007)

KaR356i said:


> we have two 'spot dots' at the roadhouse I work at. I'd never used one before I started working there, and it is helpful to find someone in dim light before you turn it on, or to follow someone when there's tons of light on stage.... However-
> The spot dots we have are tiny little tubes, difficult to look through if you aren't used to it, the light is not very bright, and the batteries run down often because it's very easy to think you have the switch all the way off when it is really still on. Ours have magnets on them, but you still have to tape the heck out of em to get em to stay. They often move after you have them sighted in. All in all, I don't like them. The disclaimer on this is that I'm not sure we really have the 'spot dot' you all are refering to....
> The Telrads have come through with a few different touring shows. They are MUCH easier for new spot ops to learn with, have a bigger target area, brighter light, and very simple to sight in. They are bigger and therefore don't move as easily after you sight them in- if they do, they are much simpler to re-adjust
> There's my two cents



A curve ball (that is the expression, no?) in my design making process, though much appreciated.


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## Van (Mar 19, 2007)

Wow, I used to make a a pair of iron sights out of hanger wire, till I learned how to aim a follow spot. I think the idea of a reflex sight for a spot is a neat idea though, for newbies and Truss spots.


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## koncept (Mar 19, 2007)

i still just use hangars if i need a sight. it all depends upon where i can stand in relation to the spot. sometimes you can use existing points on the spot as a sight


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## avkid (Mar 19, 2007)

I always used to teach the new kids to look down the hinge on the pentagonal body spotlights we had in high school.


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## avkid (Mar 19, 2007)

SteveB said:


> A great mounting method is as follows:
> 1) Find a small camera tripod, about 6 inches long, made from 3 legs of flexible gooseneck with a standard threaded camera mount. Here's a typical: http://www.wolfcamera.com/product/291660447.htm?bct=;citripods
> 2) Home Depot and McMaster-Carr sell small round magnets with a center hole. Buy 3 of the roughly 2" round versions
> 3) Drill a hole in the bottom of the Telrad and bolt the camera tripod mounting bolt thru and onto the Telrad. It helps to use a nylon insert nut for this to keep it tight.
> ...


I would advocate some sort of safety measure in addition to the magnet.


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## highschooltech (Mar 20, 2007)

We use S4s at my school. They are pretty easy to sight using points on the light. Even on my first time spotting, which i rarely do, i was fine. During a school performance i was literally thrown behind a spot and told what to do having never done it before and i hit my mark perfectly.


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## DarSax (Mar 20, 2007)

highschooltech said:


> We use S4s at my school. They are pretty easy to sight using points on the light. Even on my first time spotting, which i rarely do, i was fine. During a school performance i was literally thrown behind a spot and told what to do having never done it before and i hit my mark perfectly.


Congratulations.


...


Back on topic though, that's a good point as far as iron sights of sorts go. Is there any real benefit to the Telrad over iron sights/crosshairs? I know some reflex sights "compensate" for the angle at which you look through them, but hell, couldn't you just paint a bent coathanger with glow paint and get almost the same effect as the Telrad for about $5?


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## SteveB (Mar 20, 2007)

DarSax said:


> Congratulations.
> ...
> Back on topic though, that's a good point as far as iron sights of sorts go. Is there any real benefit to the Telrad over iron sights/crosshairs? I know some reflex sights "compensate" for the angle at which you look through them, but hell, couldn't you just paint a bent coathanger with glow paint and get almost the same effect as the Telrad for about $5?



Yes. Telrads work well in an un-lighted booth, or on a spot platform with no worklight available. 

SB


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## Charc (Mar 24, 2007)

DarSax said:


> Congratulations.
> ...
> Back on topic though, that's a good point as far as iron sights of sorts go. Is there any real benefit to the Telrad over iron sights/crosshairs? I know some reflex sights "compensate" for the angle at which you look through them, but hell, couldn't you just paint a bent coathanger with glow paint and get almost the same effect as the Telrad for about $5?



Besides being cool?  

I feel like they might be a little more resistant to change (bumps etc.). Though I've not used any. I think I will get the telrads. Though I am still unsure of where to mount them on the instrument, is anywhere better then anywhere else? Do they... melt?

~Charlie


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## SteveB (Mar 24, 2007)

charcoaldabs said:


> Besides being cool?
> I feel like they might be a little more resistant to change (bumps etc.). Though I've not used any. I think I will get the telrads. Though I am still unsure of where to mount them on the instrument, is anywhere better then anywhere else? Do they... melt?
> ~Charlie



They don't melt, or at least I've yet to see one melt on a 3kw xenon. 

I mounted mine on small camera tripods (see post above) so as to get the Telrad 6" away from the fixture. The operators got tired of having to lean their heads almost alongside the spotlight so as to view the sight, whiththe Telrad taped firectly to fixture body. The tripod makes it a bit more user friendly.

One of the things I like about the Telrad vs. the SpotDot, is the Telrad has a decent sized image consisting of 3 concentric rings, ea. roughly corresponding to the beam size at tight head-shot, half body and full size pickup. Makes it easy to gauge where the beam's going to be. 

Steve B.


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## derekleffew (Dec 1, 2014)

A member wants sights for his Lycian Midgets, and I've convinced him to buy Telrads (even though I'm a SpotDot fan). His question to me was " 2" or 4" base extension, or none?" Since I've never used any, I told him I'd ask. Does anyone have any strong preference one way or another? @SteveB, can you post picture(s) of your elaborate mounting system?

For those unfamiliar with the Telrad, of course there's a YouTube for that.

It's real purpose is as a telescope sight, so that's what the video discusses.

See also the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/followspot-aiming-tips.4018/ .


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## robartsd (Dec 1, 2014)

I've used Telrads on followspots. I just gaff tape the base to the housing of the spot. I haven't used the extension, but would recommend one (not sure if 2" or 4" would be better - I'd be inclined to try the 4" first). Without the extension the Telrad is too close to the instrument to be easy to sight. I personally don't find the Telrad useful without a base extension for the 100' throw I'm used to; however, less experienced spot ops have found it quite valueable.


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## JonathanHarpur (Apr 20, 2019)

We have a Telrads on our two Lycian M2s. We have a couple of the 2" standoff mounts available for our spot ops to use as they prefer, as they're easy to add and remove. They work a treat. The rings correspond (in our space) to a headshot, head-to-waist, and full body shot. The standoffs do add a bit to the parallax error you get with changes in throw distance, but it's never terrible, and still way better than opening up blind. 
We mounted the bases to the spots with the self-tapping screws after we'd played around with placements and Gaff, and ordered more bases to be used with tape in case we had wanted to temporarily transfer them to road spots. I should look into the DIY magnet option, there. The downside is they're fairly easy to forget on, and by the time you get back to them, the batteries are dead. I have yet to find out how long a fresh set will last when only used for shows - and we've had these for years - but the AAs they take are wildly plentiful here thanks to the Audio dept's wireless mic habits, so we don't actually buy them for that purpose any more, and have loads of spares around. (You can jam a couple of spares inside the Telrad case, too.)
Overall, I'd give the Telrad four out of five stars. Would definitely recommend to a friend.


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