# Transporting platforms/Flats



## mrb604 (May 26, 2019)

The good news is the new storage space, at the school I teach at, doesn't leak like the old storage. The bad news is it is on the other side of campus, 0.25 miles away. Without using a motorized vehicle, does anyone have a recommendation on how high school students could easily transport 4x8 platforms and flats this far? The flat platform hand trucks I have seen so far are too small.


----------



## danTt (May 26, 2019)

This is one of the those problems you want to make the administration find a solution for, not you.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 26, 2019)

mrb604 said:


> The good news is the new storage space, at the school I teach at, doesn't leak like the old storage. The bad news is it is on the other side of campus, 0.25 miles away. Without using a motorized vehicle, does anyone have a recommendation on how high school students could easily transport 4x8 platforms and flats this far? The flat platform hand trucks I have seen so far are too small.


 *@mrb604* Try Googling "Scenery dollies"; optimistically you'll find either a manufactured dolly or plans for fabrication. The design I'm envisioning is about 6' long with a STURDILY constructed vertical support leaning slightly back from vertical. Typically you load flats and / or platforms on the dolly on edge length wise and lean them back against the STURDILY constructed and braced vertical support. A small strip is normally glued and screwed along the length of the side opposite the near vertical support to keep flats or platforms from slipping off the edge of the dolly. Equip the dolly with four of the best casters you can afford that matcht the terrain you're expecting the dolly to traverse. We built one back in 1973 for rolling flats from our truck height loading dock to our stage. It was often pressed into service to roll items for at least a 1/4 mile to another venue in need of a few masking flats and / or platforms.
Up here in Canada, that poor dolly was pushed through snow and rain and the puddles of spring transporting flats wrapped in plastic or tarp's and were commonly pushed by IA apprentices being whipped (motivationally inspired) by a much more senior IA member.
If you own a copy of "The Backstage Handbook" (or find one in your local library), you'll likely find info' on scenery dollies. [B]@Van[/B] or *@bobgaggle* Have you any photos, plans or sketches you'd care to pass along to *@mrb604* ?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


----------



## DrewE (May 26, 2019)

If it's flat and level floor/ground between the two locations, maybe putting them on pallets (or otherwise making them fork-able) and using a pallet jack would be a decent solution. Maybe there are all-terrain pallet jacks, for that matter, that I've just never happened to take notice of.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 26, 2019)

DrewE said:


> If it's flat and level floor/ground between the two locations, maybe putting them on pallets (or otherwise making them fork-able) and using a pallet jack would be a decent solution. Maybe there are all-terrain pallet jacks, for that matter, that I've just never happened to take notice of.


 *@DrewE* and *@mrb604* One major advantage of transporting flats and / or platforms stood vertically on edge with their long dimension down and their width standing up IS they're narrower to roll along roads, sidewalks, through corridors and down hallways; even stood vertically on edge, they ought to clear easily through most 6' 8" exterior doorways. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## Jay Ashworth (May 26, 2019)

The school's risk exposure is going to go *sky* high with the storage that far away; hopefully you can find a way to put that thought in their head as motivation to find a closer spot, or fix the one you had.


----------



## Jay Ashworth (May 26, 2019)

DrewE said:


> If it's flat and level floor/ground between the two locations, maybe putting them on pallets (or otherwise making them fork-able) and using a pallet jack would be a decent solution. Maybe there are all-terrain pallet jacks, for that matter, that I've just never happened to take notice of.



Pallet jacks will hang up on a *tie-wrap*; they're only designed for flat, clean concrete floors.


----------



## techieman33 (May 27, 2019)

What's the path look like? Is it flat? Hilly? All nice wide side walks? How wide are the doors you need to go through? 

Here are a bunch of carts that you could get multiple platforms on and wheel them around. 
https://handtrucks2go.com/Panel-Carts/

Another option if you have doors wide enough to get your bigger platforms lying down on is to just buy some big pneumatic casters to put on the bottom of one or more of them. Then stack and maybe strap everything else on top of it. Here's an example
https://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-pneumatic-heavy-duty-swivel-caster-63799.html


----------



## RonHebbard (May 27, 2019)

techieman33 said:


> What's the path look like? Is it flat? Hilly? All nice wide side walks? How wide are the doors you need to go through?
> 
> Here are a bunch of carts that you could get multiple platforms on and wheel them around.
> https://handtrucks2go.com/Panel-Carts/
> ...


 *@mrb604* and *@DrewE* The majority of commercially available panel dollies are not generally built to be up to the task for a couple of decades or more; we had one in one of our theatres and the IA lads beat it into submission in less than two years using it inside the venue whereas the good ol' scenery cart we built in our basement shop was still performing yeomen duty at least a decade and a half later. 
Of the models illustrated on @techieman33 's link, the cart for transporting granite slabs illustrated on page two comes closest to what I'm envisioning.
*@derekleffew @Van @bobgaggle * Have you any comments, photos, drawings. plans. etcetera you could / would pass along to * @mrb604 ???*
@BillConnerFASTC Have you any comments you'd care to contribute*????*
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## AudJ (May 27, 2019)

Since this comes down to underfunding your department, I would have your administrator arrange a few times a year for you to use whatever truck, van, utility vehicle the Athletic department owns/uses. I’m sure there are at least a couple to choose from.

As an alternative, a lot of schools in my area started renting trucks for occasional moves - cheaper than the cost of running a truck full time, and it can be built into the department budget at $15 per hour or daily charge.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (May 27, 2019)

Id get a couple panel carts.


----------



## Van (May 27, 2019)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Id get a couple panel carts.


I agree, pick up a panel cart or two. You could also build a couple flat carts. I'll seek it I can't up load a design today or tomorrow. Flat carts are like a panel cart but built out of wood, 2x and 3/4 ply.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 27, 2019)

Van said:


> I agree, pick up a panel cart or two. You could also build a couple of flat carts. I'll see if I can't up load a design today or tomorrow. Flat carts are like a panel cart but built out of wood, 2x and 3/4 ply.


 *@mrb604* and *@Van* 
"Built out of wood" AND quite likely cheaper than any of the manufactured carts; at lest cheaper than any of the manufactured carts worth buying. 
Build; screw and glue, include 4 of the best casters you can afford; buy casters best suited your terrain (s). 
Possibly post back regarding the variety of surfaces you'll be encountering / traversing and I'm sure you'll receive a variety of posts and opinions.
Conceivably you'll need to roll over carpet, ceramic and / or linoleum tiles, over exterior door thresholds, over concrete and / or asphalt sidewalks and campus internal roads. Post back, I'm sure you'll receive more comments and queries. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## BillConnerFASTC (May 27, 2019)

Unless dead flat, I worry about too much weight on a slope and control. They work in a Home Depot parking lot more or less, but not on a hill.

4x8 platforms not so bad, but length of flats? And is this route often windy?


----------



## RonHebbard (May 27, 2019)

BillConnerFASTC said:


> Unless dead flat, I worry about too much weight on a slope and control. They work in a Home Depot parking lot more or less, but not on a hill.
> 
> 4x8 platforms not so bad, but length of flats? And is this route often windy?


 *@BillConnerFASTC* and *@mrb604* Slopes and wind; both GOOD points: Again @mrb604  _Please_ tell us about your terrain: Surfaces, grades, rain, sleet, snow, ice, hurricanes, tornadoes and gusting winds. Is only transporting between locations on clear, warm, sunny days a possibility, is your environment likely to incur the wrath of Mother Nature*?* Up here, a common saying is: "Load-outs cause storms." 
Aside from wind turning 4' or 6' x 16' flats into sails and / kites, _LONG_ flats are a pain when it comes to dealing with hills and negotiating turns within close quarters. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## mrb604 (May 27, 2019)

It’s coastal California, so even though it has been an unusually wet this year, the only weather problems we usually have would be an occasional stiff ocean wind. The terrain is wide concrete pathways and asphalt with some nasty seams in-between. It’s mostly flat, with one 50ft section of about a 5% grade.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 27, 2019)

mrb604 said:


> It’s coastal California, so even though it has been an unusually wet this year, the only weather problems we usually have would be an occasional stiff ocean wind. The terrain is wide concrete pathways and asphalt with some nasty seams in-between. It’s mostly flat, with one 50ft section of about a 5% grade.


* @mrb604* If / when *@Van* posts plans for a typical flat cart / dolly, you can always toss the business end of a butch ratchet strap under the cart and the free over your load, then take out the twists and snug it up; this way your load and cart at least stay together / loaded when it blows over or off into the sunset depending upon the severity and direction(s) of Mother Nature's whims. 
Again: Know when you're being teased mercilessly. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## Lynnchesque (May 27, 2019)

Wait, you said high school students? Shoot, that means you've got bodies to burn. Four corner those thangs (6 man if they're freshmen) and tell em to hike. Call it a team building exercise. .


----------



## RonHebbard (May 27, 2019)

Lynnchesque said:


> Wait, you said high school students? Shoot, that means you've got bodies to burn. Four corner those thangs (6 man if they're freshmen) and tell em to hike. Call it a team building exercise. .




Lynnchesque said:


> Wait, you said high school students? Shoot, that means you've got bodies to burn. Four corner those thangs (6 man if they're freshmen) and tell em to hike. Call it a team building exercise. .


 *@Lynnchesque * and *@mrb604 * Up here, north of Donald's walls, we have a saying: 
"Phuque 'em all but six and save them for pallbearers!!!" 
Six, arranged as three on each side brought our phrase to mind. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## bobgaggle (May 28, 2019)

danTt said:


> This is one of the those problems you want to make the administration find a solution for, not you.



I think leaving this up to desk pilots wouldn't be the best idea. You'll wind up with 2 piano dollies and a lot of blank stares when you say it won't work.


----------



## gafftapegreenia (May 28, 2019)

So the more I think about this, the more I think, get those kids a couple furni dollys and let them get a taste of convention center and hotel pushes. 1/4 mile is nothing ! Ah, the glamour of show business.


----------



## Van (May 28, 2019)

Here ya go. Build a couple of these. I cannot tell you how many Nike shows and Opera sets and units of plywood and piles of crap I have pushed through parking lots, convention centers, world headquarters.... This is not in scale I drew it in Foxit PDF Reader so keep your drafting comments to yourself. Simple construction screw and glue in all the obvious places. Yes, please be sure to install straight casters on one end and swivel on the other it will help keep control of the load, just like a real panel cart. The gussets are critical as kids will always wind up pushing on the upright instead of the flat that is lying on this thing. 
Hope this helps.

P.S. you can make this narrower. if you only go 32" wide rather than the full 48" it will fit through a standard door. Just remember the narrower the tippier so a variety might be in order.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 28, 2019)

Van said:


> Here ya go. Build a couple of these. I cannot tell you how many Nike shows and Opera sets and units of plywood and piles of crap I have pushed through parking lots, convention centers, world headquarters.... This is not in scale I drew it in Foxit PDF Reader so keep your drafting comments to yourself. Simple construction screw and glue in all the obvious places. Yes, please be sure to install straight casters on one end and swivel on the other it will help keep control of the load, just like a real panel cart. The gussets are critical as kids will always wind up pushing on the upright instead of the flat that is lying on this thing.
> Hope this helps.


 * @mrb604* Have you seen Van's post*? ? ?* Be sure to include a full length glued and screwed stopper strip along the the edge opposite the near vertical support to prevent loads from slipping off due to vibration and _REMEMBER_ to push LOADS NOT the near vertical back-stop. I'm sure *@Van* will provide further details if you have any questions. (Thanks Van!)
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## Jay Ashworth (May 28, 2019)

And Van doesn't say, but I'd plan on at least 6" casters for those -- and buy them at a wheel shop, not Harbor Freight.

Locks are good too.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 28, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> And Van doesn't say, but I'd plan on at least 6" casters for those -- and buy them at a wheel shop, not Harbor Freight.
> 
> Locks are good too.


*@Jay Ashworth* & *@mrb604* 6" with locks (brakes) or locks (to keep them rolling straight)? [I'd assume the former with rigids on one end & swivels on the other] 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## JChenault (May 28, 2019)

Van
Curious why you are not recommending a diagonal instead of just a gusset?


----------



## Van (May 28, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> And Van doesn't say, but I'd plan on at least 6" casters for those -- and buy them at a wheel shop, not Harbor Freight.
> 
> Locks are good too.


4-6"

JChenault said:


> Van
> Curious why you are not recommending a diagonal instead of just a gusset?


'Cause that's the way I always built them... Back in my day we didn't have extra 2x4 we did everything with gussets. Sometimes we stack up layers of veneer and made our own plywood... and We Liked it!


----------



## Jay Ashworth (May 28, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Jay Ashworth* & *@mrb604* 6" with locks (brakes) or locks (to keep them rolling straight)? [I'd assume the former with rigids on one end & swivels on the other]


I did indeed mean rolling-locks on the non-caster wheels, rather than swivel-locks on the caster wheels.


----------



## Smayniac (May 29, 2019)

I have found the carts Wenger makes for transport of platforms quite useful for such a situation.


----------



## Ted jones (May 29, 2019)

We made some custom casters that go into the leg receivers on our portable staging. One stage becomes the dolly for a few of them. The weight is low. No windage issues. We ratchet strap the stack to keep them from sliding.

That said, we also build and sell custom carts for staging, rolled dance floors, pit railing systems, meat racks and cable carts.

Ted


----------



## SHCP (May 30, 2019)

https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...ruck-with-plywood-steel-deck-1200-lb-capacity
I find these to be the most useful and flexible. Can load lumber, panels, flats and platforms. And you can remove the inner bar and move garbage cans. I have to load and unload up and down a serpentine loading ramp, and this design works best for me.


----------



## Van (May 30, 2019)

SHCP said:


> https://www.globalindustrial.com/p/...ruck-with-plywood-steel-deck-1200-lb-capacity
> I find these to be the most useful and flexible. Can load lumber, panels, flats and platforms. And you can remove the inner bar and move garbage cans. I have to load and unload up and down a serpentine loading ramp, and this design works best for me.


I like those too! The big wheels are great. I have modified them in the past; making a taller rail for the outside. they tend to poke through 4' and 6' wide flats.


----------



## SHCP (May 30, 2019)

Thats a great idea! We remove the bar and just slide in some 6' 1" pipe into the holes to stabilize wider loads.


----------



## Footer (May 30, 2019)

We have a fleet of the standard 2'x4' carts... and a few of these. http://www.nuwavescaffold.com/Introducing.html

FYI, at some point a kid will get hurt doing this. No way around that. When I taught HS I had a student get hurt moving things on a cart one building over, let alone a few thousand feet push. I'd also worry about the supervision thing. So.... good luck.


----------



## venuetech (May 30, 2019)

On a thousand foot push you will want to tie down your load. So hratchet straps and or teach the kids the truckers hitch. Whatever cart you end up with you will need to securely store it so that may affect your choice of carts.
I would keep wheel chocks handy when moving the cart, as you may need to stop and adjust the load on the slope. 
I like flatbed garden wagons for things other than flats/plats.


----------



## Van (May 30, 2019)

Y'all haven't lived till you've loaded a 50-80 12' X 4' studio flats into the back of a 24' Penske at your shop which sits right at the end of the Columbia River Gorge. Want to talk about Wind and getting hurt? Yow.


----------



## kicknargel (May 31, 2019)

I once had wind catch a flat I was carrying and ding my boss's car. Not good.


----------



## RonHebbard (May 31, 2019)

kicknargel said:


> I once had wind catch a flat I was carrying and ding my boss's car. Not good.


 *@kicknargel * In the mid 90's I found myself in a Berlin scenery shop finessing a couple of "Tommy" pinball machines in storage between the end of a run in Offenbach and a proposed run in Berlin. A truck similar to those seen transporting plate glass in North America backed into the dock with a load of what they termed their standard "large" sheets of plywood. I was stunned by the size and was told they had "standard" size sheets and "standard large" size sheets. If I'm recalling correctly, their "large" sheets were 2 Meters x 4 Meters; 6' 6" x 13' 0'' by quick math / conversion in my head. The plywood was being transported through the narrow secondary streets of Berlin racked vertically on edge 2 Meters high x 4 Meters long. The rack was located outside the rear wheels with its lower supporting surface approximately 4" above the pavement, the stack of sheets were maybe 6" thick in total and canted slightly towards the truck's centreline with its open box used to tote the remainder of the shop's order; smaller dimensional lumber, cartons of hardware, hinges, bolts, pails of glue, paint, etcetera. 
All of the shop's workers were busy in their shop, I was closest to their dock when the truck backed in and first to rush to the driver's aid when the wind gusted the moment he'd released the clamps securing the sheets in position. It was all two of us could do to hold his load from blowing over while he was frantically bellowing in German for others to come to his aid. I understood / spoke nary a word of German beyond: Thank you, good morning, good evening and good night but after his load was temporarily re-secured, then off-loaded undamaged, I understood his hearty handshake in appreciation of my efforts. Those were some mighty big sheets of ply and they were most definitely a handful when the wind hit. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


----------



## JonCarter (May 31, 2019)

Used to work in a Big Outdoor Theatre. Everything built on dollies, usually 4x8s or several strapped together when larger ones needed. Once we had a multi-set musical playing and another one building. One of the guys fiigured out that we had more sq. ftg. of canvas in the air than the Mayflower. And it got across an ocean. Every time the storm clouds appeared and the wind picked up everybody dropped what they were doing and ran around like maniacs tying things down. Ahhh, outdoor theeter!


----------



## Darin (Jun 22, 2019)

Lynnchesque said:


> Wait, you said high school students? Shoot, that means you've got bodies to burn. Four corner those thangs (6 man if they're freshmen) and tell em to hike. Call it a team building exercise. .



Until one of them gets hurt and you have a lawsuit on your hands. Whatever accident insurance the school carries to cover the students probably doesn't apply to the 1/4 mile between facilities


----------

