# Leaves falling off a tree



## meghanpotpie (Oct 7, 2012)

I am working on a production of Titus Andronicus for a class assignment and the design team wants a three dimensional tree that drops all of its leaves at once mid way through a scene. I know how to build a 3D tree but am running into a road block with how to make all of the leaves fall off at once. The budget is really of no concern because it will not be a realized design. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks.


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## techieman33 (Oct 7, 2012)

Small magnets on all of the leaves. Turn the tree branches into an electromagnet, and when you cut the power the leaves will all fall.


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## MPowers (Oct 8, 2012)

I hope you enjoy your time there at IU. Got My MA there (before they offered an MFA). 

Now, are you asking us to solve a class assignment? 

As for the magnet idea! Probably one of the best answers. However, if the branches have electro magnets, the leaves need only a steel/iron insert, not a magnet of their own.


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## techieman33 (Oct 8, 2012)

MPowers said:


> As for the magnet idea! Probably one of the best answers. However, if the branches have electro magnets, the leaves need only a steel/iron insert, not a magnet of their own.



True, I was racing out the door for a show call and just banged the reply out real quick.


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## gafftaper (Oct 8, 2012)

meghanpotpie said:


> The budget is really of no concern because it will not be a realized design. Anyone have any ideas?



Well as long as we are in fantasy land... Each leaf could be individually rigged with fishing line like thousands of Kabuki drops. Pull the wad of strings and everything falls. It's possible, a huge pain in the butt to reset, but possible and probably cheaper than magnets.


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## meghanpotpie (Oct 8, 2012)

MPowers said:


> I hope you enjoy your time there at IU. Got My MA there (before they offered an MFA).
> 
> Now, are you asking us to solve a class assignment?
> 
> As for the magnet idea! Probably one of the best answers. However, if the branches have electro magnets, the leaves need only a steel/iron insert, not a magnet of their own.



Haha...I'm not asking you to solve a class assignment. Part of the assignment is knowing which resources to turn to for research. I still have to do a working drawing, parts list, budget list, and a mock up. Thanks for the idea.


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## techieman33 (Oct 8, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Well as long as we are in fantasy land... Each leaf could be individually rigged with fishing line like thousands of Kabuki drops. Pull the wad of strings and everything falls. It's possible, a huge pain in the butt to reset, but possible and probably cheaper than magnets.



I'll have to disagree with you on that one, electromagnets are cheap to build, and the time required to reset hundreds or thousands of leaves for a kabuki style drop would quickly eat up the little bit of extra money spent.


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## lwinters630 (Oct 8, 2012)

I am thinking "fly fishing". each leaf is attached to a "invisible" fly fish line. Run through eye screws or copper tube and down thru the branch / trunk. The weight of leaf has to easily float down the line. A group of "spools" on common axle with eyelet guides are hidden in the trunk base. Released via relay, and rewound by attaching drill/motor after show. 

Sure, it needs more detail thinking, but that is what the class is for. . . . .


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## JChenault (Oct 8, 2012)

lwinters630 said:


> I am thinking "fly fishing". each leaf is attached to a "invisible" fly fish line. Run through eye screws or copper tube and down thru the branch / trunk. The weight of leaf has to easily float down the line. A group of "spools" on common axle with eyelet guides are hidden in the trunk base. Released via relay, and rewound by attaching drill/motor after show.
> 
> Sure, it needs more detail thinking, but that is what the class is for. . . . .



While I don't have a solution I have questions. I find that asking these kinds of questions help me refine the issue.

How big a tree are we talking about? 
Should it look realistic or is it suggestive?
Is the desire to see the leaves fall or to get to a bare tree ( thinking that some leaves might retract into the tree instead of dropping
How many performances. How much time to reset the leaves
Is there a warning to the audience that this about to happen? IE could we distract them so they see the after effect not the event?
How big a pile of leaves do you want. Do they fall straight down or flutter about?
How close do the actors get to the tree before the drop? IE if someone climbs in it magnets will probably not work well
Does the tree move or is it stationary?
What happens to the leaves on the floor? Do they get walked on, raked about, etc?


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## gafftaper (Oct 8, 2012)

techieman33 said:


> I'll have to disagree with you on that one, electromagnets are cheap to build, and the time required to reset hundreds or thousands of leaves for a kabuki style drop would quickly eat up the little bit of extra money spent.



We are talking about educational theater here. Magnets cost real dollars at the store, labor to reset the rig is free. Mandatory shop hours are a beautiful thing. It's absurd, yes, but not improbable. Many of us around here live in the world of "do it the hard way because student labor is free".


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## kicknargel (Oct 8, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Many of us around here live in the world of "do it the hard way because student labor is free".



Big hijack (maybe even worth its own thread), but the fact that basically all theater students are educated in this type of environment is a huge problem for me in hiring carpenters into a world where labor is a much bigger cost factor than materials. It takes years to retrain someone not to take 8 hours to do something as elegantly as possible, when the 1 hour solution is just as good.


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## meghanpotpie (Oct 8, 2012)

kicknargel said:


> Big hijack (maybe even worth its own thread), but the fact that basically all theater students are educated in this type of environment is a huge problem for me in hiring carpenters into a world where labor is a much bigger cost factor than materials. It takes years to retrain someone not to take 8 hours to do something as elegantly as possible, when the 1 hour solution is just as good.



While this particular question is about a class project, we as technical direction students are kept within budget and labor constraints. We are trained and practice in our realized design shows that even our student labor costs money and we budget accordingly. I do understand your frustration though. Prior to returning to grad school, I was out in the field for almost 10 years and would have to agree that many students these days aren't being trained within realistic parameters.


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## Morydd (Nov 7, 2012)

I'd like to explore moving this out of the theoretical. I just came up with a similar idea myself, and since this discussion is here, why not jump on. My thought is to get some 1" conduit, bundle it into "trunks" and bend the "branches" out. Metal tree!

Now... How to actually magnetize the thing. Would applying an electromagnet to the base work, or would we be better off making the "trunk" itself the electromagnet? Suggestions?


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## StNic54 (Nov 7, 2012)

My suggestions: piping makes up the tree, and the leaves are pushed into smaller holes in the pipes. Turn on a quiet stream of air and let it push all the leaves out at once.


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## Morydd (Nov 8, 2012)

That seems like an interesting idea, but I fear that once the first few leaves came off there wouldn't be enough pressure to push the remaining out.


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## StNic54 (Nov 8, 2012)

You could have a flap that shuts when the leaves empty to keep the pressure more constant - shouldn't take a lot of pressure to do the trick.


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## techieman33 (Nov 8, 2012)

StNic54 said:


> You could have a flap that shuts when the leaves empty to keep the pressure more constant - shouldn't take a lot of pressure to do the trick.



That sounds like a whole lot of extra work to set up, and then set back up after they're released.


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## gafftaper (Nov 8, 2012)

techieman33 said:


> That sounds like a whole lot of extra work to set up, and then set back up after they're released.



Let's face every variation of how to do this is going to require an hour or so to reset and someone on the crew will hate you more and more every night.


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## techieman33 (Nov 9, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Let's face every variation of how to do this is going to require an hour or so to reset and someone on the crew will hate you more and more every night.



True, but with the magnet you could put leaves on wherever, with the leaves you would have to hit every specific hole on the branches.


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## MNicolai (Nov 9, 2012)

Just saw a production of The Mountaintop where during the pillow fight, feathers fell gently from above the bed.

They used a vent with a filter on it that maintained suction of the feathers onto the filter with a vacuum-type device. They could drop just a few feathers by slightly lowering the suction by the vent, or could drop all the feathers by turning the suction off altogether.

Depending on the form and size of the tree and its branches, you could make the branches out of something that can act like a filter on a vent, then maintain suction on all of the branches with an vacuum, stick the leaves to the branches, then release them by turning the vacuum off.

The leaves would have to be very lightweight for this to work and malleable enough in shape that they would contort to the filter and maintain suction between the leaves and the filters.

Probably a difficult build with complicated testing, tweaking, and probably requiring prototypes, but would be an easy reset, potentially inexpensive, and easy (and reliable) to trigger.


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## blackisthenewblack (Nov 9, 2012)

MNicolai said:


> Depending on the form and size of the tree and its branches, you could make the branches out of something that can act like a filter on a vent, then maintain suction on all of the branches with an vacuum, stick the leaves to the branches, then release them by turning the vacuum off.
> 
> The leaves would have to be very lightweight for this to work and malleable enough in shape that they would contort to the filter and maintain suction between the leaves and the filters.



Plastic pipe of a general flexible plumbing variety, drill holes to your heart's content. Cover in painted muslin or scrim type fabric, attach vacuum cleaner and presto. Going to be ridiculously noisy, especially if there are any mics on set, but reset is easy. Just throw the leaves in the air, till they all stick


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## Morydd (Nov 9, 2012)

blackisthenewblack said:


> Just through the leaves in the air, till they all stick



I was thinking the same could work with the electromagnet theory.


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## Morydd (Nov 9, 2012)

gafftaper said:


> Let's face every variation of how to do this is going to require an hour or so to reset and someone on the crew will hate you more and more every night.



I work in a high school, so the labor is free, and by tech week, they already hate me a little bit.


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