# My 1st Post/Hello!



## bobadore (Feb 22, 2007)

Greetings to the ControlBooth.com Community!
I'm so glad I found this site! As a newbie, I don't know exactly how to start my (first) search for info on how to spec/build & install my own Co2 cryo jet system similar to but less expensive than the model/unit offered on www.salvin.biz Any suggestions? Please lemme know!


----------



## domiii (Feb 22, 2007)

I'm also looking for information on CO2 for a special effect any info would be appreciated


----------



## domiii (Feb 25, 2007)

I guess no one has used CO2 for a smoke effect?


----------



## Lunchbox (Feb 25, 2007)

What do you need to know?


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 25, 2007)

Please don't take this as an insult, but I think this falls into the categorie of questions where the answer is: "If you need to ask how to do it, you probably shouldn't be doing it." 

There are a lot of potential hazards of dealing with liquid CO2... which include explosion and death by asphyxiation or hypothermia. A lot of people around here get quiet about information when they know someone could get hurt using their advice, that's why there is a no rigging policy. Personally, all I know about liquid CO2 systems is that it's way more dangers than I want to mess with. 

Sorry to be such a downer on your first post, but my advice is higher a professional or go to school and become a professional. Oh and welcome to the Booth!!


----------



## Van (Feb 26, 2007)

Hmmm I'll have to hop onto Gaffs bandwagon. Personally, other than using dry ice as a chilling material for glycol fog or as a subliminal fuel in "pea-souper" style fogger, my expiriences with with CO2 are limited. I do think that when dealing with the machining and materials necessary to handle any liquid gas you are getting into something beyond the average scenic shops abilities to accomplish. 
Welcome aboard! I hope I can be more help to you in the future! and please don't hesistate to ask more.


----------



## domiii (Feb 26, 2007)

Well I was just looking for advice as to whether anyone has use something as simple as a CO2 fire extinguisher, of course rented just for this purpose not one of the house fire extinguishers, for an effect. I was not thinking of designing anything special. It would be used in a large auditorium not a small space.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 26, 2007)

domiii said:


> Well I was just looking for advice as to whether anyone has use something as simple as a CO2 fire extinguisher, of course rented just for this purpose not one of the house fire extinguishers, for an effect. I was not thinking of designing anything special. It would be used in a large auditorium not a small space.



Playing with a CO2 fire extinguisher for a little smoke is a whole different deal. The system linked to in the original post was a full night club system that drops the temperature of the club 30 degrees in seconds. It's a SERIOUS system with serious potential danger.

A little CO2 fire extinguisher puff of smoke is fun, cheap, and easy. As long as it's an extra you bring in for the show and not one that should be hanging on the wall... Go for it! The negatives that I've seen are that they can be a little loud for theater purposes and they can shoot little snow/ice particles out along with the "smoke". Neither of which is a deal breaker depending on the show. My advice is to get one and play with it in your space to see what you think. You may find that the old 50 gallon drum of hot watter and dry ice is a much more pleasing effect... but it isn't the quick on quick off instant blast you may be looking for. 

Safety warnings for the fire extinguisher: Keep it in a large ventilated room and don't point it at anyone and you are safe. Don't play with it in a closet as lack of Oxygen is a real bummer on your life expectancy. Secondly, an extended blast of that CO2 on exposed body parts can essentially freezer burn you... which makes a fun trip to the ER... and amputation due to frost bite isn't a good thing. Be smart and you'll be safe.


----------



## Van (Feb 26, 2007)

domiii said:


> Well I was just looking for advice as to whether anyone has use something as simple as a CO2 fire extinguisher, of course rented just for this purpose not one of the house fire extinguishers, for an effect. I was not thinking of designing anything special. It would be used in a large auditorium not a small space.


 
Issues surrounding Fire extinguishers for forg effects are multi-fold.
Number one, they are noisy as all get out. Number two they are designed to shoot CO2 into an area then have it fill that area as fast as possible, hence the disspersion of the "fog" is extremely quick. You get a big billowy cloud in one area, then nothing, as opposed to a Pea-souper which lets the fog come out more on its own pressure, allowing for that blanket effect. Number three, Safety. As previously stated CO2 fire extinguishes are designed to cover an area and fill it with co2, displaceing all the oxygen. Firemen aren't interested in whether or not they can see the cool fog effect, that's just a side effect, the reall job of the extinguisher is to choke the fire, rob it of all it's oxygen. 
So if it's for a quick explosion/burst of "smoke" or fog Extinguishers are great, Follow the safety guide lines, don't point them at anybody. If it's a longer lasting effecvt you are looking for go with a dryice fogger.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 26, 2007)

What he said... and make sure your ventilation system is on anytime you play with CO2!! You don't want your audience or cast to pass out (or worse) from lack of Oxygen.


----------



## bobadore (Mar 3, 2007)

*Re: My 1st Post/Hello! ->UPDATE Info*

- Thanks for all your replies to "My 1st Post/Hello!" Despite responses citing safety issues of CO2; this application & systems (CryoJet) is used worldwide and sold by www.salvin.biz and www.lemaitre.com. These vendors install custom CO2 CryoJet systems that will COOL the room from 100+ degrees to 42 degrees in SIX SECONDS! But wait, there's more! The mo' better/best system uses liquid nitrogen (LN2). Go to www.kryogenifex.com and click on their promo video!! The apps/EFX are already proven technology. My request is for resource info for system components (nozzles, remote control actuators, high pressure lines, liquid CO2 or LN2 tank(s) 'Certified'!...to be spec'd, installed and maintained by a licensed professional! So please, check out the SALVIN.biz and KRYOGENIFEX.com sites! You'll be impressed - not afraid!


----------



## gafftaper (Mar 4, 2007)

Hey Bobadore, 
First off there are a lot of young folks around here who see stuff on line and think "hey we should set that up for the next school dance", without understanding the safety issues. So that's why you got the safety lectures. It sounds like you are really a serious potential customer just wondering if there is a cheaper way to get a system installed at your venue. It is pretty cool stuff. I've seen these systems on TV on a travel show I think... along with the bubble system... which looks pretty fun too. 

Sorry, sadly about all I know is what remains from a mostly forgotten chemistry class. However, it seems like you would need a lot of really specialized gear to keep the whole system from freezing up while also keeping the CO2/N2 from warming up too much. Lemaitre is one of the biggest names in smoke and fire effects gear. My guess is there is a lot of really specialized equipment that is made just for them and not available anywhere else. I also doubt they are going to be very excited about sharing their secrets with you. My guess is if you want it you're going to have to pay them to build you a system.


----------



## Chris15 (Mar 12, 2007)

Well Welcome Aboard.

Now the others have covered much of what would comprise my normal safety soapboxing. However, I do have to disagree with the idea of using fire extinguishers for anything other than fighting a fire and it is from something Mayhem said a while ago. IF you have a fire, people will to a degree panic no matter what. If they think they can put a fire out with a fire extinguisher, then they will go to the nearest one. If you've used an extinguisher for theatrical effect and hence emptied the extinguisher. So I'm trying to put out a fire. I go for the nearest extinguisher. But that extinguisher is empty because of its use as an effect. And so we have a problem...

Basically there is a degree of good reason as to why professional systems aren't cheap. It's a couple of factors. They use high grade components to do it, this means that there is less chance of failure. They also know how to make it work and make it safe. And thirdly, they are insured. If the think goes horribly wrong and it's a home rigged system, the poop is going to hit the fan BIG TIME. The pros get it wrong and it's a problem for them and their insurers, not you. It's a case of covering one's behind.


----------

