# Hiring out a Venue - Where do I start?



## JonasA (Feb 17, 2012)

So, my school's got a 750-seat auditorium with a decent stage, basic LX and sound, with a nice foyer attached, and extensive dressing room/rehearsal room space. On top of this, we've got a beautiful 154-seat lecture theatre complete with full AV for presentations, sound runs and even dimmers/patch. My question is*:** how do I hire it all out?*

Currently these venues are only used by the school, and occasionally by an outside group with close ties. They aren't hired out for performances, lectures, award nights, speeches, presentations... anything! I'd imagine there's a market - we're located in the middle of a large growth area and there's only one better venue for 15km (400 seat fully equipped including fly tower theatre). Is there any reason why hiring it out wouldn't be viable? Also, if we were to get it happening, what do we need to be able to provide for hirers in terms of staffing/facilities/insurance/information? What's the process for hiring out your venue?


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## museav (Feb 17, 2012)

JonasA said:


> My question is*:** how do I hire it all out?*


You say "How do I hire it out", but I sort of doubt it is yours to offer and who does own it, who is wanting to rent it out, who would profit (or if anyone can profit), who would assume responsibility and liability for such operation, etc. are critical issues. Have you discussed this with the school leadership?


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## josh88 (Feb 17, 2012)

Brad's right, if you are in fact a high school student like your occupation says, the short answer is, you don't. 

The long answer is you need someone, (probably faculty with more authority than you) to bring it to the administration that there is a market and potential profit. It's something the admins would need to approve and get behind and then likely the business office. In my experience the business office would be who is actually setting up the rentals and marketing the availability of the space. My space is rented out around once a month on average and my only interactions with the renters before they show up is a short talk on what I would provide them, what they need from me and pay for those involved. After that I don't do or hear anything else until they business office tells me they finalized the deal and I need to sign the contract and meet up with them on such and such a date.


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## marmer (Feb 17, 2012)

Not all schools are interested. They may have issues about bringing audiences into their building which do not have some relationship to the school's programs. There may scheduling issues with adjacent spaces and support staff even if the hall itself is free on paper. There very well may be greatly increased costs for insurance, staffing, maintenance and even supplies that they couldn't justify by rental income and there may be tax issues on rental income they aren't prepared for. My guess is that if it's that sweet of a space and there really are potential users out there, inquiries may have already been made to the school district.

That said, good for you for raising the question and you probably want to ask whatever administrator or even counselor you are most comfortable with how to proceed. I can't imagine that a respectful query to someone in authority wouldn't get a reasonable response, even if it is "no." Never hurts to ask.


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## Footer (Feb 17, 2012)

Do you know if any other school related facilitys are rented out? Its pretty common to see craft fairs in gyms and stuff like that. If so, the infrastructure is already in place. Ask around. Its a decent way for one of the more expensive rooms in a building to pay its own way.


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## len (Feb 17, 2012)

1. Is it allowable within the school district rules?
2. Is it allowable within the insurance company's policy?
3. Is there a market? Yes, there's 1 theater 15km away, but how busy is that theater? 
4. Since you're a student (I assume) why is this something you're involved in? You'll be gone in 2 - 3 years anyway.

It is possible (and my district rents out the theaters at both schools, but getting it off the ground takes some time, and a lot of legwork to make it known. Also, given it's a school, there's going to be a lot of groups who won't be allowed in (concerts with inappropriate music, etc.). Whoever is selling the venue has to have a really clear understanding of what is acceptable, and what isn't.


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## Chris15 (Feb 17, 2012)

The OP is in south planet folks...

So Private or Public is the first question?


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## JLNorthGA (Feb 17, 2012)

JonasA said:


> So, my school's got a 750-seat auditorium with a decent stage, basic LX and sound, with a nice foyer attached, and extensive dressing room/rehearsal room space. On top of this, we've got a beautiful 154-seat lecture theatre complete with full AV for presentations, sound runs and even dimmers/patch. My question is*:** how do I hire it all out?*
> 
> Currently these venues are only used by the school, and occasionally by an outside group with close ties. They aren't hired out for performances, lectures, award nights, speeches, presentations... anything! I'd imagine there's a market - we're located in the middle of a large growth area and there's only one better venue for 15km (400 seat fully equipped including fly tower theatre). Is there any reason why hiring it out wouldn't be viable? Also, if we were to get it happening, what do we need to be able to provide for hirers in terms of staffing/facilities/insurance/information? What's the process for hiring out your venue?



I've been in the position of actually having "rented" a high school auditorium for shows. As the others have said - it is up to the school administration, not you. The school in question (McEachern) has an excellent performing arts center. Here is a link to their facility use form. McEachern High School (Go down to the facility use form link on the page) Since coming up to the North GA mountains, I've also been involved in shows at a local high school facility.

We typically paid a rental fee as well as all the other fees. Many of the area high schools rent out their spaces for events. The big problem is getting on the calendar.


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## josh88 (Feb 18, 2012)

Chris15 said:


> The OP is in south planet folks...
> 
> So Private or Public is the first question?



Being in Australia shouldn't change most of the advice given thus far, I don't expect a school would like someone, student or faculty trying to rent a space without talking about it with the powers that be and administration, school structures might be different but businesses still run the same way south of the equator, and lets be fair, education is a business.


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## museav (Feb 20, 2012)

JLNorthGA said:


> I've been in the position of actually having "rented" a high school auditorium for shows. As the others have said - it is up to the school administration, not you. The school in question (McEachern) has an excellent performing arts center. Here is a link to their facility use form. McEachern High School (Go down to the facility use form link on the page) Since coming up to the North GA mountains, I've also been involved in shows at a local high school facility.
> 
> We typically paid a rental fee as well as all the other fees. Many of the area high schools rent out their spaces for events. The big problem is getting on the calendar.


McEachern happens to be an unusual example as it is a County school that also has a sizable private endowment, which paid for much of the PAC construction. I won't go into all the details of some of the situations that caused during design and construction (through a change of jobs I worked for a contractor bidding on the audio system installation and then for the design consultant, a very enlightening experience to see both sides of design-bid-build for the same project) other than to say that the considerations associated with each sometimes conflicted to the venue's detriment.

I think Chris's point may be that not only is it being a public or private institution potentially a major factor, but also that the traditional differentiation between public and private institutions in the US may not be the same everywhere. But in any case it seems to come down to who is the actual Owner and Administrator of the facility and the considerations that then entails in terms of potential rental to outside groups. Typically, a public institution may have greater considerations involved than a private school, however charter and similar issues may still be relevant to what may be essentially creating a commercial operation.


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## NickVon (Feb 21, 2012)

It might sound silly, and i don't want to be patronizing...

But Step 2 is. Have Somebody/Somegroup want to rent it. I work for an theatre arts center at a private college with now actually "performance/theatre" program. 70% of what i work on are the rentals from one-offs, community theatre/musical groups, local dance ensembles, Churches putting on play's, after school performing arts schools performances, etc. the other 30% are College related functions, meetings, lectures, and Student Union Club events.

There is a huge need for reasonable priced rentals in our area and we are one of the only that is reasonable. That said the Local Highschool Auditorium frequently gets rented during the summer with by larger more robust theatre groups that can afford it and have a larger audience to seat.

Groups that come to us require liability insurance, and money. That is pretty normal for groups renting space in public high schools.

If and When someone is interested in renting the space as a 3rd party not affiliated with your school district, I dare say someone in the district will figure out away to take there money  In which case the school will determine usually a minimum rental cost or paying custodians to open doors and turn on the lights+ Heat/AC, etc


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## venuetech (Feb 21, 2012)

it usually starts with a clear need for the community. the classic example would be; a local dance school would like to do a spring dance reticle to give the young dancers performance experience. This is a commercial enterprise that would like to use a public facility. The dance school students are school age youth who likely attend the public school with the auditorium. The dance school asks the building principal / headmaster. If the school district has a rental/hire policy in place the principal will direct the dance school to whichever department handles that policy. That department works closely with the school, the district business department and the custodial staff. making sure that all the t's are crossed and all the i's are dotted. billing and insurance need to be addressed I worked in one district where the "building rentals" department was an additional secretary to the custodial department. 
all sorts of ways to deal with it but it starts with "the school board policy"


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## museav (Feb 22, 2012)

NickVon said:


> If and When someone is interested in renting the space as a 3rd party not affiliated with your school district, I dare say someone in the district will figure out away to take there money  In which case the school will determine usually a minimum rental cost or paying custodians to open doors and turn on the lights+ Heat/AC, etc


If it is a public school it is not that easy. Public schools are built and operated with public funds and they are there to serve the public interest, not to be in business or generate profit for the school. Some things that may have to be considered include:

What if it potentially takes business from or competes with local businesses, the very entities paying the taxes that pay for the schools?
What if some group or entity that is not desirable or whose association might be perceived negatively wants use?
What if you allow one group or company use but for whatever reason have to deny a competing group or company use?
Will it create a positive image?
Might the use negatively impact any school events or activities?
Is the function within the charter or purview of the institution? This can also apply to private schools for use may be directly associated with their function or purpose.
Is the benefit to the general public greater than the associated risk? The risk may include image, personal liability, copyright liability, property damage, loss of use and so on.

The second point hit my high school when I was attending there. They had apparently rented the auditorium out to a private group who ended up scheduling a rather polarizing topic and speaker. There was protest on the school property associated with the event that got out of hand, leading to vehicles being overturned, arrests, etc., all quite a bit for a town of less than 10,000 people. I believe that was the last time that school district facilities were used for anything other than school related events.

Not long after that, a nearby town ran into issues with radical organizations wanting to use public facilities and found themselves in a very precarious position of past public use setting a precedent that forced them to have to allow such groups.

A school near us initially received praise for offering their space at little or no cost to a church that had lost their facility. That turned to condemnation when that church was still meeting at that school several years later and apparently making no attempt to rebuild their building since it was cheaper to continue to meet at the school. FWIW, there are still on going litigation related to worship services, however the Supreme Court has ruled that a public institution that offers their facilities for rental can not exclude religious entities, they should be treated like any other organization. 

Those may be extreme cases but the point is it is not as simple as looking at a particular use but also involves considering the potential impact once any use outside of school sponsored events is allowed.


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## marmer (Feb 22, 2012)

Good points, museav. To reiterate something I said earlier, it is also very possible that rental income will be taxable. If the school district is not prepared for that it can be a nasty surprise. When we opened our building and started having rentals, I remember there being a seminar given by the accounting department about this very thing. Admittedly, I work for a private university instead of a public school, but I can't imagine that it's that different in the IRS code. I can't speak to the Australian circumstances but it is probably worth looking at. It's also potentially an issue if there is property of significant value rented out instead of a venue; something like an audio system, a valuable musical instrument, or costumes.


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## josh88 (Feb 22, 2012)

Not to say that this information hasn't been useful or worthwhile, but I would point out the OP hasn't been active in the thread since the first post, so who really knows what the situation there is since we haven't heard any other specifics


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## museav (Feb 22, 2012)

josh88 said:


> Not to say that this information hasn't been useful or worthwhile, but I would point out the OP hasn't been active in the thread since the first post, so who really knows what the situation there is since we haven't heard any other specifics


However, other members of ControlBooth may benefit from the discussion either now or in the future even if the OP does not.


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## Ric (Feb 22, 2012)

I've been watching to see if I could identify the school (I have my guesses) as it's supposedly in Melbourne, and in a growth area. It even sounds like they may be referring to where I work as the 'other' nearby Theatre. There are not many schools that have a Theatre, let alone one of this capacity. (750 seat!), as most can't afford them. 
I would suggest that it IS highly likely that it's a private &/or religious school, in which case the decision to hire it would come from a board of directors.
If this is a serious enquiry by the OP then there are local organisations that may be able to give advice on the setup requirements i.e. VAPAC or they could PM me and I'd see what I could do to help locally.


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## josh88 (Feb 22, 2012)

museav said:


> However, other members of ControlBooth may benefit from the discussion either now or in the future even if the OP does not.



Hence my point that the information is still useful and informative, but there has been some speculation and questions that haven't had responded from him. All said, with a little cleaning up this could easily be turned into a primer and how to for setting up a space to enter the rental world.


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## JonasA (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks all for the replies - I'm starting to see the complexities involved.

For some background; This was something I was asked to investigate by our Head of Music, who thought it wouldn't be such a bad idea and "seeing as you know about this stuff..." I got saddled with researching it. Thus, I apologize for my terrible use of the term "I", where it was inappropriate. The school is private, not religious (there you go Ric; no prizes for guessing now), and in the past the Business Manager has shot down the idea, partially because the idea of then having to contract security staff and the difficulties it raises with insurance etc. was unappealing to him and the school council, but also because he didn't know enough about it.

For now, it's looking like it will stay un-hired (aside from the drama group which uses it once in a blue moon - CPCA for any Aussies), but thank you all for the advice/warnings/queries - I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier!

/Jonas


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## chausman (Feb 24, 2012)

JonasA said:


> ...partially because the idea of then having to contract security staff...



This isn't a question for you, just something general. Do other schools (in America) normally have any kind of security during events? Either contracted or already a staff member.


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## josh88 (Feb 24, 2012)

my school has a couple of security on campus already and they wander around at night (since we also have borders) so they make some extra trips around the building when we have a show going on. Before we had the security they had (and still do) to pay a maintenance guy to stay late and make sure the building was locked up and secure (even though we do it ourselves anyway). Way back in high school we never had either of those and just had to check ourselves and at college the only security we'd hire were for big events like concerts, and those were more for crowd management than anything else.


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## marmer (Feb 24, 2012)

We have university police. Generally, the rule is that if an outside group is charging admission and has cash on hand, a uniformed officer has to be hired to be on site. If the event is free, which many are, the police presence is not required. Rarely do we have the kind of events which require police for crowd control -- ushers are fine. We hire a commercial group for large audiences and use students for small things. Non-commissioned security officers walk the campus late at night and check exterior doors but our staff does all the securing and checking of interior spaces and locking up at night. We're fortunate that we have university EMS across the parking lot from us so we get excellent response time without having them on standby.


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## MarshallPope (Feb 24, 2012)

My high school usually had one or two of the school district's police officers that would be around the theatre when there was a large event or something. My college never has any sort of security except for very occasionally a couple of volunteers walking around during some concerts or campus safety may help with traffic (or attempt to lock up the support areas during the show. Don't ask. They're a joke.)


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## NickVon (Feb 24, 2012)

JonasA said:


> Thanks all for the replies - I'm starting to see the complexities involved.
> 
> For some background; This was something I was asked to investigate by our Head of Music, who thought it wouldn't be such a bad idea and "seeing as you know about this stuff..." I got saddled with researching it. Thus, I apologize for my terrible use of the term "I", where it was inappropriate. The school is private, not religious (there you go Ric; no prizes for guessing now), and in the past the Business Manager has shot down the idea, partially because the idea of then having to contract security staff and the difficulties it raises with insurance etc. was unappealing to him and the school council, but also because he didn't know enough about it.
> 
> ...




as others have mentioned about security, i'll just comment with my 2 cents. 

The local "Public" high school in my town simply puts the cost on what ever group is renting the auditorium. At my workplace at a private college only student (and hence non-rented) events at our theatre require security. Usually it's just 2 officers from the private secuirty firm that maintains the campus that get hired on extra. Some of that cost goes to the club to managed, I think 50 Per officer. The College covers the rest.

Back to the high school. Any event there requires security and it's usually either the School district security staff or actual Town police. For non school district related events though the cost for the required security is placed squarely on the rental group as part of their rental contract ( +1-2 maintenance/Janitorial staff to clean up and closeup). 

My Gist is what ever reservations you department heads have a bout renting the venue the shouldn't really be taking on teh "EXTRA" cost of personel on themselves. That gets much deeper into Cost analysis of how much energy you the building burns when occupied etc. Thats kind of step 8 in all of this.


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