# DMX Adapters; Another 5 pin to 3 pin DMX question



## RichMoore

I have seen in previous posts regarding 5 pin to 3 pin DMX conversion questions, to just use the first 3 pins on the 5 pin to connect to the 3 pins of the XLR connector, since the 4th and 5th pins were vacant or not used at all.

Since my in-house DMX uses all 5 pins of the connector and the cable is 2 twisted pairs with braided shield, how would I connect to the 3 pin connector? I have tried using only one of the twisted pairs with no luck. I am thinking that I need to use the positives of each pair and the negatives of each pair to connect to pins 3 and 2 with the shield still on pin 1. 

Does that make sense? Has anyone else done this? Am I way off base? What is the solution?


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## waynehoskins

Both pairs are a differential RS-485 serial data channel. You can't common them to each other.

Data Channel 1 is the one that's used for outbound control data. That's pins 2 and 3 (2 data complement, 3 data true) .. backwards from the audio wiring convention.

What are you trying to hook up to what? It's possible (nay, probable) that the 3-pin device isn't DMX.


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## derekleffew

RichMoore said:


> ...Since my in-house DMX uses all 5 pins of the connector...


By "in-house DMX," to what are you referring? The cabling? All DMX512A-compliant devices only use pins 1,2,3 of the 5pin XLR. All devices using 3pin XLR to carry DMX, while technically non-compliant, should have no issues provided the adapters are wired one-to-one. Note that early Martin gear (i.e., PAL-1200s) and a few others required pins 2&3 to be swapped.

Here is the current DMX standard: ANSI E1.11 - 2004, and here is a link to adapters I have found useful: Audiopile.net.



What are you trying to control, and with what?


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## ishboo

I have a 5-pin DMX-512 board and a couple devices that are 3-pin. I picked up a couple adapters on ebay for about $3/ea and haven't had a single problem since.


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## TimMiller

In many installed they will wire up pin's 4 & 5 but they are not physically used. Using turn arounds will not cause any problems.


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## porkchop

I have to agree with Derek totally. In theory (although as mentioned it's against the standard) all you need is pins 1-3. Your house wiring may be 5 wire but as far as you board's output is concerned pins 4 and 5 are basically vacant of useful information. There are exceptions to this, the pyro I work with uses what we call "true 5 pin DMX" that is 5 wire cable that sends two sets of information so as to provide error checking (or something like that haven't truly looked into it), but as far as the standard is concerned that is not really DMX, that's an offshoot that uses some similar equipment. If you're using modern lighting gear that takes 3 pin information it shouldn't matter that you actually have 5 pins in your house system.


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## RichMoore

A bit more info and hopefully clarification on my issue.

I am running a Strand 520i....into which, I wrote the attributes of the new fixtures into the fixture library....red, attribute 14...green, attribute 15...blue, attribute 16....

My DMX cabling is 2 twisted pairs with braided shielding soldered to pins 1 thru 5 on 5 pin connectors....

All DMX signal goes through Path Port/ethernet....

I have been provided with 7 LED Par type units which have 3 pin DMX input and output connections....

I have been provided with 3 pin male & female connectors and with 5 pin male and female connectors, along with cable that is 2 twisted shielded pairs...

I am fabricating cables to daisy chain the LED units in order to control the color output of the fixtures....

I have taken a short 5pin DMX cable and cut it, so that I have a male with a short length of 2 twisted shielded pairs and a female with a short length of 2 twisted pairs....

I soldered into the1, 2, and 3 pins of 3 pin connectors the twisted pair and the shield that are connected to the 1, 2, and 3 pins of the 5 pin connectors....

I then connected the 5 pin male into the PathPort output and connected the 3 pin female into the LED 64unit DMX input....then I connected the 3 pin male into the LED 64unit DMX output and inserted a DMX terminator into the 5 pin female...

Using the rotary controls on the 520i, I was able to only control the red output of the fixture, and that went from red to black.

I am presuming that the simple way around this issue is to try the store bought 5 to 3 converters, but seeing as how I am an old poot, I know there must be another way, although not quite so simple.

Any ideas or not so simple solutions?

Thanks,

Rich Moore
Technical Coordinator
Performing Arts Center
Texas A&M--Corpus Christi
Corpus Christi, Texas


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## waynehoskins

Me believes your problem is not in the adapter. If you were able to control anything about the fixture, there's data getting to it, and it's just RS-485, so if it was able to make out anything of the control signal, then it's probably good.

Methinks your problem is either in the fixture addressing or the library in the board.


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## RichMoore

Thanks for the response Wayne.

I will revisit the fixture library and double check what I have written.

I am now wondering about the dip switches on the back of the LED 64units. I may have inadvertently juxtaposed the #10 switch with the #1 switch. I will give that a shot also.

Thanks again,

Rich


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## JD

Also check for dyslexia ! 

More than once I have ended up with 2 & 3 reversed even though I was positive I did it right! When the dmx is reversed, you get some odd behavior, not quite dead, but nothing like normal.


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## Banquo

derekleffew said:


> Note that early Martin gear (i.e., PAL-1200s) and a few others required pins 2&3 to be swapped.



I ran into this problem with some Abstract Twister4's, before the pins were swapped only one of the three available fixture attributes worked.

If your fixture library and addressing checks out, it could be that you need to do this for your LED Pars. If you can identify the make and model, you should be able to find a pdf manual that shows the correct pin out.


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## RichMoore

I think that my original issue is solved.

waynehoskins was correct, in that the problem was in the addressing of the fixtures.

I found the Sabre Technology Dip Switch Calculator and used it and now all is well. I don't recall whether or not someone turned me onto this site or not, but here it is and it works like a champ. 

Sabre Technology - Dip switch calculator

I am using my 5 pin to 3 pin cable that I cobbled together to get the DMX signal into the first fixture and then daisy chaining 3 pin to 3 pin putting the fixtures together.

Thanks for all of the help and ideas.

Rich


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## derekleffew

For times when a computer and/or the Internet is not available, (hey, it *could* happen,) I've found this chart to be valuable. Although it says Martin Atomic Strobe, it will work for _almost_ everything, except High End gear and a few minor others. And I had it first, before Chauvet!


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## w3st0n21

*DMX adapters*

Hey guys, 
how do i make an adapter to go from 5 pin (m) to 3 pin (f)? i have the connectors, so i just need to know what pin numbers go to what wires and what not.

thanks


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## abbyt

*Re: DMX adapters*


w3st0n21 said:


> Hey guys,
> how do i make an adapter to go from 5 pin (m) to 3 pin (f)? i have the connectors, so i just need to know what pin numbers go to what wires and what not.
> 
> thanks



On both connectors=
Pin 1 = Pin 1
Pin 2 = Pin 2
Pin 3 = Pin 3

I have seen pins 4 and and 5 handled two ways. I've seen the wires completely disconnected and capped off (with a piece of heat sink) on both ends (the way I recommend) and I have also seen them left connected at the 5 pin side, and disconnected only on the 3 pin side. 

Whether it is the 5 pin or 3 pin connectors, the pins should be numbered. Remember if you're wiring a male to a female (or vice-versa) the connectors are a mirror image of each other. 

DMX Pinout standard is as follows:
1= Common
2= Data -
3= Data +
4= Unused (sometimes has wire connected, sometimes not- depends on who made the cable)
5= Unused (sometimes has wire connected, sometimes not- depends on who made the cable)

Is that the info you were looking for?


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## w3st0n21

*Re: DMX adapters*

exactly! thank you very much


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## derekleffew

The three posts immediately above have been merged into this thread, from one originally titled "DMX Adapters." For iPhone/iPod Touch owners, there are a couple of dipswitch calculators at the iTunes Store. My favorite of these is iSwitchDMX, by Mike Zinman (and his PocketLD app is excellent, second only to my Excel Photometric Workbook . Amazingly, the two agree on almost all calculations ).


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## JD

I think the 3 to 5 questions are eternal because what you see flies against common sense! 

Warning: The following is non-standard and stuff only JD likes to do!

I like the double pair cable because you can actually make break-out cables and use the other pair to run com to the stage, or as a second Universe. (Here come the digs!) Oh well, just me. Of course four channel snake cable is the best! Audio snake cable is made from multi-channel shielded pair data cable and has the 120 ohm impedance DMX likes. (Check out the Belden catalog.) 

Use the "Reply" button to post your digs


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## iLightTheStage

RichMoore said:


> I think that my original issue is solved.
> 
> waynehoskins was correct, in that the problem was in the addressing of the fixtures.
> 
> I found the Sabre Technology Dip Switch Calculator and used it and now all is well. I don't recall whether or not someone turned me onto this site or not, but here it is and it works like a champ.
> 
> Sabre Technology - Dip switch calculator
> 
> I am using my 5 pin to 3 pin cable that I cobbled together to get the DMX signal into the first fixture and then daisy chaining 3 pin to 3 pin putting the fixtures together.
> 
> Thanks for all of the help and ideas.
> 
> Rich



And for when there's a computer but no internet, this program has a dip switch calculator too:
Paul Pelletier - LD Calculator


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## lieperjp

Could 3-pin cable be run to a 5-pin connector? (I mean, Pin 4-5 don't do anything anyway...) This is for a wall mounted DMX out box. 

If not, please explain?


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## dramatech

Yes, you can run three conductor cable to five pin connectors, leaving pins 4 and five unused. There are those, that will state that it is not true DMX as defined in the standard. The standard even says that manufactures should run pins four and five from the male to the female connector of the daisy chain loop. It is a lovely thought, but it sure is a lot easier and cheaper to find twisted braid shielded cable in the 110 to 130 ohm impedance. If buget is a factor, which it is for most folks on CB, and you know that you will never use the second pair, then surely run just one pair. Even though several folks have listed the functions on the 3 and 5 pin connectors, it is important to note that the shield of the cable connects from pin one to pin one, and do not connect pin one and the shield to the shell of the connector, the way it is done on some audio connectors. It is important to note that Ground on DMX pin 1 is not the same as chassis ground.


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## derekleffew

JD: No flames from me, I've done similar also. Not as an SOP, but occasionally.

dramatech: Good point about "if you know you'll never need pins 4&5...budget..." The only time I've ever needed pins 4&5 is with a WholeHogII's "Rigger's Remote" (RFU).


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## roh

Hello

I am considering buying an American DJ lighting console for some basic shows I'm doing - they have a 3 pin DMX but I am using 5 pin DMX ETC Sensor dimmer racks. Can this be converted or no?


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## chausman

Yes. All one needs is an XLR3 to XLR5 adaptor. You can buy them pre-made or make them yourself if you can solder.


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## roh

ok, so I wont be losing any data/functionality without the other 2 connections?


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## Les

roh said:


> ok, so I wont be losing any data/functionality without the other 2 connections?



No, you will not. The other two pins were for a planned future expansion that never really materialized as a standard (though some users and manufacturers have found alternate uses for them).


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## derekleffew

adapter, 3-5
.


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## JD

Just do not give into the temptation to use mic cable


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## RickR

JD said:


> Just do not give into the temptation to use mic cable



I maintain that the primary reason for 5 pins is to prevent such silliness. Of course damaging equipment by mixing systems is another good reason...


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## DELO72

roh said:


> Hello
> 
> I am considering buying an American DJ lighting console for some basic shows I'm doing - they have a 3 pin DMX but I am using 5 pin DMX ETC Sensor dimmer racks. Can this be converted or no?



DMX512 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


XLR-5 pinout:
1.Signal Common
2.Data 1- (Primary Data Link)
3.Data 1+ (Primary Data Link)
4.Data 2- (*Optional *Secondary Data Link)
5.Data 2+ (*Optional* Secondary Data Link)


XLR-3 pinout:
1.Ground
2.Data 1- (Primary Data Link) (Switchable to DMX+ on Some Controllers)
3.Data 1+ (Primary Data Link) (Switchable to DMX- on Some Controllers)


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## STEVETERRY

RickR said:


> I maintain that the primary reason for 5 pins is to prevent such silliness. Of course damaging equipment by mixing systems is another good reason...



My thoughts on this subject from 1998:

Whose network is it, anyway? Why the end user is the loser in the DMX512 connector controversy

ST


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## techietim

We have a Behringer LX Console with a 5pin DMX output but we recently upgrade to LED Cans with 3 pin DMX so we made out own converter cable and never had a problem (except for our other dimmer packs - don't go there!). The head technician has now changed the output port to a 3 pin making it even easier!

-TechieTim


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## Mattsochor

Basically, at our school we have stage lights connected using 3 rounded plug switches to a dimmer backstage. This then goes through a 5 pin to the stage box at the back of the hall which then goes into the jester lighting board as a 5 pin dmx. However we also have some other dmx lights such as a LED and moving light, however these are inputs and outputs of 3 pin dmx's only, which won't go into the jester board. Previously I have plugged them into another lighting board using a 3 pin to 5 pin adapter, but I all want them in the same board. So, I just wanted to ask, how I would be able to link them all to the same lighting board. I was thinking to get an adapter for the 5 pin to a 3 pin and then a splitter of 3 pin and 3 pin to a 5 pin to the lighting board. Does anyone have any other suggestions and if this would work. Thanks in advanced


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## TuckerD

Welcome to CB! 

You could use a 5 pin to 3 pin to connect the first light and then use a 3 pin to 3 pin to connect the next light using the first light's DMX out. You could use a DMX splitter at the lighting board to connect it to the dimmers and the lights.

If you can draw a picture of your plan then I can probably help more.


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## derekleffew

[Above two posts moved here from another location.]

Use as many adapter, 3-5 and adapter, 5-3 as you need to. Just be aware each connection introduces another possible failure point as well as _slight_ degradation of signal. So most would plan their DMX data distribution scheme to use as few adapters as possible. Some opto-splitter s, for example, come with both 3-pin and 5-pin outputs. Some fixtures have both, and it's no problem to go in one way and come out the other, using the fixture itself as the adapter. Provided your 3-pin XLR cable isn't actually mic cable (as @JD said in post#6 above), you'll be golden.


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## techieman33

You can buy adaptors that go both ways

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0079X65MS/?tag=controlbooth-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0079X6V4A/?tag=controlbooth-20

They also make opto splitters that have both 3 and 5 pin outputs.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002GYVTKS/?tag=controlbooth-20


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## Mattsochor

TuckerD said:


> Welcome to CB!
> 
> You could use a 5 pin to 3 pin to connect the first light and then use a 3 pin to 3 pin to connect the next light using the first light's DMX out. You could use a DMX splitter at the lighting board to connect it to the dimmers and the lights.
> 
> If you can draw a picture of your plan then I can probably help more.


Yes, I'm a bit confused, but I drew a picture


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## JD

If you are only using one universe, then the output of your desk should go to an opto-splitter. Each output can then feed a string of fixtures and dimmers. (No Y adapters allowed.) Each string should end in a DMX terminator. 
As for the 3 to 5, Current DMX uses a 5 pin standard but only pins 1,2 and 3 are used. Same pin numbers on either 3 pin or 5 pin, but 5 pin does not use pins 4 and 5 (although some of us have put them to use but that's another story  )


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## Mattsochor

Ok, so I buy a splitter box and attach them all to them 5 pins?

However, would I work if I plugged the DMX 3 pin into a 5 pin adapter and then put it into the bottom of the daisy chained dimmer packs?

The cable goes in the bottom dimmer pack hole and goes to the lighting board? Will this work, obviously I will need to address them again


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## Calc

A few questions:
Any hints for us on what the box in the booth is? Is it just a patch panel, or actual equipment? If it's an inline opto, you could replace it with an opto/iso that has a few more outputs.
On your drawing, the four lights labeled "Stage Lights" all get three-pin cable too. I assume that it's power rather than DMX, but just wanted to verify.

How close to the stage is the room with the dimmers? You could get signal to the stage devices from the pass-through on the dimmers. It might be easier than a home run back to the board.

Depending on placement of the FOH mover, you could run to it, then back to the box in the booth. It's hard to tell you which path to take without seeing the space.


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## JD

The output of your board should hit the opto-splitter first. That way, any electrical malfunction will take out one of the outputs on the opto-splitter as compared to taking out the board! It can be located in the booth or at the stage, but it should be the first thing in the chain. From there on out it is standard "star" topography. Each output can chain up to 32 fixtures or dimmers. In most cases, it is better to use each output to handle a "zone" of lights. That way, if there is a problem, you can narrow it down to the zone that is misbehaving.

3 to 5 and 5 to three adapters can be used anywhere you want. Just don't mix the type of cable you are using! (Use only DMX data rated cable, not mic cords.)


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## Dionysus

Exactly as JD says, go to an opto-splitter. The key thing of an opto-splitter is not only does it split the signal into various outputs, but they are all optically-isolated, that is to say they are not directly electrically connected. If something happens like 120v applied to a pin of the dmx in one of the lights, it will limit the damage to only that part of the chain from the splitter. It is protection!
Also as JD said, never put more than 32 devices on a single DMX output. you can start to see some ugly things start to happen. You also don't want miles and miles of cable on a single output.

In my opinion (yes I know not everyone wants to buy one) EVERY lighting setup should have an opto-splitter, why not?

Splitters come in all different sizes and such, and made by different people. Their quality does vary a little. Price does too.

A pretty typical sort of setup:

Board (Console) -> opto-splitter (in)
opto-splitter -> Dimmer1 -> dimmer 2 -> dimmer 3 -> etc -> terminator
opto-splitter -> moving lights -> terminator
opto-splitter -> accessory power supplies (PSUs for scrollers, I-Cues, etc) -> terminator
opto-splitter -> LED fixtures
opto-splitter -> more LED fixtures.

You get the idea.
Use 3-pin to 5-pin and 5-pin to 3-pin adapters anywhere you want, as JD said make sure you use the same type of cable (all DMX cable not mic cable). Going from one cable type to another also causes problems.


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## Mattsochor

Calc said:


> A few questions:
> Any hints for us on what the box in the booth is? Is it just a patch panel, or actual equipment? If it's an inline opto, you could replace it with an opto/iso that has a few more outputs.
> On your drawing, the four lights labeled "Stage Lights" all get three-pin cable too. I assume that it's power rather than DMX, but just wanted to verify.
> 
> How close to the stage is the room with the dimmers? You could get signal to the stage devices from the pass-through on the dimmers. It might be easier than a home run back to the board.
> 
> Depending on placement of the FOH mover, you could run to it, then back to the box in the booth. It's hard to tell you which path to take without seeing the space.


Yes ok.
The dimmer pack shown on the picture. It says it is a Betapack 2 made by Zero 88, same as the lighting board. I'm not sure what the actual name for it is, but you have the stage light number above and you plug them in accordingly, to give power and to patch them.

Yes the stage lights are big metal 3 pin power cables which plug into plugs at the ceiling and run to this cupboard, which supplies them with power.

Yes, with regarding to hooking up all the dmx lights I have done that already. From the moving one, I have trailed a DMX cable to the ones backstage, and yes the backstage lights are close to the cupboard, but would it work if I simply plugged it in and addressed them?

Thanks


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## Mattsochor

JD said:


> The output of your board should hit the opto-splitter first. That way, any electrical malfunction will take out one of the outputs on the opto-splitter as compared to taking out the board! It can be located in the booth or at the stage, but it should be the first thing in the chain. From there on out it is standard "star" topography. Each output can chain up to 32 fixtures or dimmers. In most cases, it is better to use each output to handle a "zone" of lights. That way, if there is a problem, you can narrow it down to the zone that is misbehaving.
> 
> 3 to 5 and 5 to three adapters can be used anywhere you want. Just don't mix the type of cable you are using! (Use only DMX data rated cable, not mic cords.)


As I do not have many dmx lights, only 3, could I just use a dmx splitter cable instead of an opto splitter. This means one side would be for the stage lighting, not dmx and one would be for the dmx lights.


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## JD

Mattsochor said:


> As I do not have many dmx lights, only 3, could I just use a dmx splitter cable instead of an opto splitter. This means one side would be for the stage lighting, not dmx and one would be for the dmx lights.


The simple answer is no. You cannot passively split a DMX signal. What happens is you end up with data reflections down the different legs of the split that will garble the data.


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## SteveB

Does the console have multiple DMX outputs ?. Console dependent, but it sometimes allows you to have the same universe spitting out of both DMX ports, so a basic 2 port splitter right out of the console.


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## Mattsochor

SteveB said:


> Does the console have multiple DMX outputs ?. Console dependent, but it sometimes allows you to have the same universe spitting out of both DMX ports, so a basic 2 port splitter right out of the console.


No, it only has a DMX input and a DMX Output


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