# Standard Temperature For Your Theater



## KevinJohnston (Jan 12, 2011)

An informal poll: What temp does the thermostat at your venue get set at?

I'm managing a 400 seat fly house at a high school and we constantly have patrons complaining about how cold it is in the theater. I've asked the school district over and over to set the temp higher. The latest response I received was that the temp can't be raised above 67 deg for fear of setting up a feedback loop between the heating and the A/C. WTF?


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## achstechdirector (Jan 12, 2011)

68 was the normal in high school
65 is the normal in college
67-73 was the normals in community theatres 
In some older theatres I have to set the air at like 55 to get it to 70 and heat to 85 to get it to 65 so it depends on the space the patron demographic and the type of heating/cooling system you use


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## meghanpotpie (Jan 12, 2011)

We have a 300 seat house and depending on the size of the audience the temp varies from 69 - 72. You're never going to be able to please everyone and our regular patrons have learned to bring a sweater just in case their seat is under an air vent.


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## cprted (Jan 12, 2011)

70 degrees under normal conditions. Dance temp is 73.


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## sully151 (Jan 12, 2011)

If you believe audiences laugh more when it is cooler then I would shoot for 68-70. I have worked in a lot of small theatres that were very warm and you could feel the audience not wanting to laugh as much.


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## Mercedes (Jan 12, 2011)

Ours usually sits between 73-79. We are in an older building, controlled by the University, so has a tendency to get very hot in there.


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## cpf (Jan 13, 2011)

Before someone discovered that the AC unit switched off on September 30th only to return on April 1st: Around 25C/77F post-event at the FOH in the winter.
After manual override: A comfy 22C/72F after a show, idles at the set-point of 20C/68F.


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## derekleffew (Jan 13, 2011)

The technical rider of most touring dance companies' contract will contain

> Environment: Stage area and dressing rooms shall be, and maintained, at a minimum temperature
> of 72 degrees F. (22 deg C) for the safety of our performers. The temperature must reach the
> assigned point no later than 1 hour before any scheduled rehearsal or performance.


or similar. I've seen the road stage manager carry a thermometer and mount it to the offstage edge of a leg, first thing upon arrival.


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## FMEng (Jan 13, 2011)

KevinJohnston said:


> An informal poll: What temp does the thermostat at your venue get set at?
> 
> I'm managing a 400 seat fly house at a high school and we constantly have patrons complaining about how cold it is in the theater. I've asked the school district over and over to set the temp higher. The latest response I received was that the temp can't be raised above 67 deg for fear of setting up a feedback loop between the heating and the A/C. WTF?


 
If that's the case, there are at least two solutions. One is to set the A/C setpoint higher during the heating season, to prevent the "feedback loop." Another method would be to simply shut off the breaker for the A/C compressor during heating season. If neither of those solutions work, then the district really needs to hire an HVAC control technician to correct the problem, which shouldn't be hard or expensive.


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## kiwitechgirl (Jan 13, 2011)

Generally we run between 18-20 degrees Celsius (sorry, I can't think in Fahrenheit!) in a 300 seat house, maybe up to 22 degrees in winter but no more than that. We always used to have issues with the back two rows complaining of cold drafts, as that's where the air con vents come out, but since we put baffles on them, it's been much better!


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## dramatech (Jan 13, 2011)

kiwitechgirl said:


> Generally we run between 18-20 degrees Celsius (sorry, I can't think in Fahrenheit!) in a 300 seat house, maybe up to 22 degrees in winter but no more than that. We always used to have issues with the back two rows complaining of cold drafts, as that's where the air con vents come out, but since we put baffles on them, it's been much better!



Celsius 18* is Fahrenheit 64.4*
Celsius 20* is Fahrenheit 68*
Celsius 22* is Fahrenheit 71.6*

to find Fahrenheit from Celsius, divide Celsius by 5 multiply that number by 9 and add 32. I am sure there is a better way, but as a not great math type, that lived in Sweden for 3 years, it was my method of knowing if I should be cold or hot.

Tom Johnson
In generally warm, Central Florida


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## erichart (Jan 13, 2011)

Our standard temperature is too hot or too cold  

But we're in the middle of renovations that include adding controllable thermostats for each of our spaces.


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## headcrab (Jan 13, 2011)

KevinJohnston said:


> ...the temp can't be raised above 67 deg for fear of setting up a feedback loop between the heating and the A/C. WTF?



Your cooling set point is said to be below the heating set point. Thus Administration thinks both systems will try to run at the same time if the temperature is in the "right" range. Any system worth something should have interlocks to prevent this, so this sounds like Administration heard something and misunderstood it.


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## Ryan5443 (Jan 13, 2011)

Its interesting but there are specific building codes that require temperatures in a very limited range for air flow throughout the theatre. I believe that in NY it needs to be set at 62 F (obviously it will never actually reach that temperature), but I could be wrong. I will ask an architect I know, he should have the answer.


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## Dionysus (Jan 14, 2011)

Temperature management in a facility can be complex, however most LARGE and MODERN facilities are managed by a computer. The difficult part is achieving the balance. However usually they are controlled by the same system, using the same ducts, using the same sensors though the building.

Sounds to me they may just not want to have to mess with the system. They have it all set up the way they like it. They have it balanced. They have good circulation, with a even consistent temperature. They know if they monkey with it, they'll have to try and achieve a balance again.

That or they just don't want to touch it period.

And if the system actually does run off of normal thermostats and not a more complicated system, then it too should be impossible for both to run at the same time. Because they *should* run off of the SAME thermostat.

I have to say that generally it is IMPOSSIBLE to find a temperature in a large facility, that always feels 'right' to everyone. It will never happen.


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## visagegyc (Jan 14, 2011)

"... generally it is IMPOSSIBLE to find a temperature in a large facility, that always feels 'right' to everyone. It will never happen."[/QUOTE]

Fun fact: managing FOH at my last facility I could count on almost EXACTLY equal numbers of complaints of "too warm" vs "too cool"-same night, same show, sometimes the same section. High ceilings, variations in attendance, thousands of watts of illumination onstage; yes, impossible!


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## Les (Jan 14, 2011)

Dionysus said:


> Sounds to me they may just not want to have to mess with the system. They have it all set up the way they like it. They have it balanced. They have good circulation, with a even consistent temperature. They know if they monkey with it, they'll have to try and achieve a balance again.



Very, VERY true. I once worked as a house technician/building manager at a local community theatre and our HVAC was managed by a PC. It displayed air circulation graphics, air filter status, everything. One time during a rehearsal, the cast complained that it was too cold in the downstairs dressing room. So, I go up to the office and log on to the HVAC program and bump that room up two degrees. Minutes later, they are frantically calling me, telling me that the mirrors are fogging up and that the new temperature was way too hot. There is definitely a careful balance to be maintained.


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## Kelite (Jan 14, 2011)

Les said:


> Minutes later, they are frantically calling me, telling me that the mirrors are fogging up and that the new temperature was way too hot.


 

Either the talent was pretty 'hot', if you know what I mean, or they were talking up a storm while applying their make-up!

Sometimes you just can't please everyone, Les.


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## Dionysus (Jan 14, 2011)

Les said:


> Very, VERY true. I once worked as a house technician/building manager at a local community theatre and our HVAC was managed by a PC. It displayed air circulation graphics, air filter status, everything. One time during a rehearsal, the cast complained that it was too cold in the downstairs dressing room. So, I go up to the office and log on to the HVAC program and bump that room up two degrees. Minutes later, they are frantically calling me, telling me that the mirrors are fogging up and that the new temperature was way too hot. There is definitely a careful balance to be maintained.


 
Working as an electrician I've worked on these bloody systems. One that always stands out in my mind is the YMCA here. Everyone is always complaining about the tempratures up on the running track, around the ice, on the ice, in the pool, the water temp, the hottub, the gyms, and workout rooms. So basically everywhere. Some people always find things too cold, or too hot. Or they start working out and THEN find it too hot and ask for the whole room to be cooled down etc.
Again it is computer controlled, the same with the lighting. I am one of the few people who are not staff at the YMCA actually trained on all the control systems.

You just cant make everyone happy all the time.

The pool temperature is for many a titch warm, for others perfect, and others (mainly old ladies) way too cold. Then once someone starts swimming laps they find it quite warm... Funny that.

Its pretty cool because the facility used a complex thermal reclamation system, taking heat from the ice surface and using it to heat other parts of the building and such. The Balance took a long time to get wright. You cannot monkey with it, or once someone holds a door open too long, it goes all outta wack.


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## museav (Jan 14, 2011)

There are many factors to consider. The temperature will stratify (layer) in a large space like a theatre and getting warm air during heating and cool air during cooling to be what you want where you want involves more than just sensors and the control system, it also requires well though out airflow and supply and exhaust locations. Add in how the heat loads that can vary in location and load and wanting to have very low noise levels and a theatre becomes especially challenging. Remember that it is HVAC, ventilation as well as heating and air conditioning, and there are also code requirements in terms of airflow that have to be met regardless of temperature.

LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) also factors in to many newer buildings, especially public facilities. Obtaining LEED points and certification requires energy efficient, environmentally friendly building design and operation. This can significantly affect the mechanical systems.

Of course one of the most important items in a theatre HVAC system is the thermostat placed in a highly visible location that ushers can adjust. It shouldn't be connected to anything other than maybe to DC power to make it light up, but it's amazing how patrons often feel better simply because they saw someone go adjust the thermostat after they mentioned that they were too hot or too cold.


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## cpf (Jan 14, 2011)

museav said:


> Of course one of the most important items in a theatre HVAC system is the thermostat placed in a highly visible location that ushers can adjust. It shouldn't be connected to anything other than maybe to DC power to make it light up, but it's amazing how patrons often feel better simply because they saw someone go adjust the thermostat after they mentioned that they were too hot or too cold.


 
I stumbled across one of these in an older building  It was just one of those programmable household ones, tacked onto the wall with 1 screw, powered by a 9V battery. Stuck out like a sore thumb, though, since all the other thermostats were a different model and about 20 years older. I'm still sure it worked like a charm!


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## NickVon (Jan 19, 2011)

We have a 300 seat theatre venue with a high arch vaulted ceiling, formerly a church. Keep the house between 70-72 in the winter and between 67-70 in the summer time. the HVAC system runs nearly 24/7 in the old leaky stone building, but its a powerful system that can keep it at temp for everything except for extended load-ins.


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## tjrobb (Jan 21, 2011)

Les said:


> Very, VERY true. I once worked as a house technician/building manager at a local community theatre and our HVAC was managed by a PC. It displayed air circulation graphics, air filter status, everything. One time during a rehearsal, the cast complained that it was too cold in the downstairs dressing room. So, I go up to the office and log on to the HVAC program and bump that room up two degrees. Minutes later, they are frantically calling me, telling me that the mirrors are fogging up and that the new temperature was way too hot. There is definitely a careful balance to be maintained.



We have one of those systems (I'm in the maintenance dept. and LOVE it, makes my life so much easier). An Andover Continuum, to be specific. In any event, when the space is "occupied" (according to the days and times we set) it stays around 69° year-round. Unoccupied it runs between 65 and 75 (would be 63/80 but the organ goes wonky). With the Andover system, we can tell the thermostats how much variance the setpoint can have, so the auditorium temperature can only be set between 68.5° and 69.5° without accessing the server. This comes in handy as the 'stat is in a patron-accessible area. Oh, and we have 5 temperature sensors in the auditorium and the PC takes the room temperature as the average of the 5, makes the space much more comfortable.

Our stage is set to 70° cooling, and 55° heating. The heat is low as the *** that designed the system put the supply ducts at 25', and the return air AT THE GRID - 55' in the air. It is physically impossible to heat the stage with the stage unit, fortunately the house unit does a good job of keeping the area warm enough. -sigh- A space should not be this screwy one year after a remodel. Still, before the remodel the stage didn't have any dedicated A/C so I'll take this new unit any day.


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## Blacksheep0317 (Mar 25, 2011)

KevinJohnston said:


> An informal poll: What temp does the thermostat at your venue get set at?
> 
> I'm managing a 400 seat fly house at a high school and we constantly have patrons complaining about how cold it is in the theater. I've asked the school district over and over to set the temp higher. The latest response I received was that the temp can't be raised above 67 deg for fear of setting up a feedback loop between the heating and the A/C. WTF?


 

Eh..
Its something that technically can be an issue. Doing a majorty of my work outdoors or in club settings where temp differences of 30-40F arent uncommon you can have some issues in a low headroom monitor situation. It all has to do with how sound waves travel in hot and cold air, as well as humidity levals and all sorts of fun stuff. Personally...I find it all as overly scientific scapegoats to user error. 

But as to temps, unfortunatly I have no control over weather so all my outdoor shows range from a Buffalo -5F and snow to a Orlando 95F with 90% humidity. Indoors it all depends on venue and show type. Having a girlfriend who owns a dance studio and runs a company, hee riders always state 73F stage temp atleast 2 hours previous to arrival to warm the stage itself. For concerts that are "never" oversold...most venues will shoot to keep the temp about 20-30F less than their target. Lots of people dancing in a confined space = lots of energy. Lots of energy = lots of cheap heat.


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## techieman33 (Mar 26, 2011)

we are entirely at the mercy of the city to set our temps. Sometimes we get what we want and other times we are forgotten and there is very little heat in the winter, or cooling in the summer. 

As for the feedback loop the op was talking about it wasn't a sound related feedback. With some heating and cooling systems if the conditions are right they can actually start competing against each other, cooling kick in and drops the temp a degree or two, heating system sees it and bumps it up a couple, and back and forth they go running full tilt to try and keep the correct temps.


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## chausman (Mar 26, 2011)

techieman33 said:


> With some heating and cooling systems if the conditions are right they can actually start competing against each other, cooling kick in and drops the temp a degree or two, heating system sees it and bumps it up a couple, and back and forth they go running full tilt to try and keep the correct temps.


 
This happened at local theater. They were getting new heaters, but it took several days to get them installed, so if you were under one vent, it was burning hot, and if you stand under a different one, (even in the same room) you would get FREEZING cold air.


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## CSCTech (Mar 27, 2011)

Our venue is in a high school, so we are at the mercy of the districts HVAC computer.
Similar to techieman33 said, it's either freezing or way too hot. Thankfully there is an AC on/off override in the house if needed, but I have no idea how it works really. One time we had to have an early intermission because of the heat, the school was having problems with the AC at the time so luckily that was just a one time thing.

As for temp, we have no control as far as setting a specific one. But most of the time its cold, which in my opinion is better then too hot. 

Guess it doesn't help when our stage is, an air return. Don't ask me 
(Take the cover off one of our stage front speakers and whoosh cold air)


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## tjrobb (Mar 27, 2011)

Yeah, we have the over-heated issue with our system (see my earlier post). With the supply air in the house at balcony level the patrons (and sound gurus) get blasted with 100° air, sometimes warmer (as it's trying to heat the space). Gets nice and toasty - I saw our sound gent sit down and start sweating within 5 minutes, with no physical activity. Ugh.


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## Dondaley (Mar 28, 2011)

museav said:


> Of course one of the most important items in a theatre HVAC system is the thermostat placed in a highly visible location that ushers can adjust. It shouldn't be connected to anything other than maybe to DC power to make it light up, but it's amazing how patrons often feel better simply because they saw someone go adjust the thermostat after they mentioned that they were too hot or too cold.


 
I believe I read somewhere a couple years ago about companies doing the same thing in offices, and I believe I read that some of them even went so far as to add some audio effects into the dummy thermostats to make workers believe that they were actually adjusting the temperature of their office.


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## cirvin (Oct 16, 2013)

KevinJohnston said:


> An informal poll: What temp does the thermostat at your venue get set at?
> 
> I'm managing a 400 seat fly house at a high school and we constantly have patrons complaining about how cold it is in the theater. I've asked the school district over and over to set the temp higher. The latest response I received was that the temp can't be raised above 67 deg for fear of setting up a feedback loop between the heating and the A/C. WTF?


 
I have the exact opposite problem. Our theatre is WAY TOO HOT! We are a high school and the distirct refuses to turn off the heater. I've tried to explain that a theatre must remain cool (especially when there is an audience and the stage lights are going). What can I do to convince them?


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## marmer (Oct 23, 2013)

cirvin said:


> I have the exact opposite problem. Our theatre is WAY TOO HOT! We are a high school and the distirct refuses to turn off the heater. I've tried to explain that a theatre must remain cool (especially when there is an audience and the stage lights are going). What can I do to convince them?



What can you do? Not much. Non-performing arts facility managers generally don't care about temperature complaints. They have to hear it from members of the public, especially influential ones, and it may have to appear in reviews. "_West Side Story_ at Enormous High School is one of the best productions we've ever seen, with near-professional production values, but the Enormous auditorium is always way too hot." If you have a prayer of convincing them on practical reasons, you might be able to use the magic "energy savings" words to convince them that if you are present in the theatre and able to control it, you can respond quickly to possible overheating or overcooling. Also, generally, code requires a certain volume of air exchange to prevent CO2 buildup so you can't simply turn off the system. They need to modulate the temperature. Is the principal on your side?


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