# Theatre Safety Issues



## Dally (Jul 16, 2008)

So I just started at my current position about two weeks ago. In the meantime I've been noting the lack of overall safeness.
From having stage plugs in the floor, to lights that they cut the ground off of to make work, to the fact that I can't move lights unless I feel like getting shocked due to the wiring literally coming apart. 
On top of that, the ladders to the grid don't have cages. But do they have safety features of some other sort? No I climbed as far as the loading rail (which you have to go to to get to the fun front of house positions) but at the time I was the only person there and I realised I didn't have my cell phone and I just didn't want to die going the rest of the way up. 
So when you get the the front of house beam positions...you have to crawl. And then you have to slide out over the non-existant rail to focus the lights. With again no fall restraint of any kind.

So today at lunch I discussed this with my boss who told me that a couple of years ago they had the theatre inspected by the fire marshall, and that she and the TD were super excited about him telling them all of the things that needed to be fixed so admin would do it...but instead, he didnt. Apparently the fire marshall didn't feel like climbing to go to the front of house positions, and didnt bother to notice the lack of any safety equipment. So they have done NOTHING.
And I'll be honest. I'm not normally a super safe kinda girl..in the past I have been quite happy at the top of an a-frame extension ladder with no fall protection. Perfectly happy to wedge myself in funny places to get the rest of the set painted...but really this is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to be afraid to do my job. 
My husbands friend who checks if his spark plugs are working by licking his finger and putting it in them part that spark (I'm not an engine person), commented on the lack of safty in this place. Which makes me feel like I'm not unreasonable in thinking this is bad. 
So I guess my question is....do you have any suggestions for what I could say or do to get administration to both a. get the wiring fixed, and b. work on these safety issues.


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## derekleffew (Jul 16, 2008)

*re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


Dally said:


> ...So I guess my question is....do you have any suggestions for what I could say or do to get administration to both a.) get the wiring fixed, and b.) work on these safety issues.


Sorry in advance to be blunt, but you asked for suggestions, so here are some suggestions.
#1. Stop referring to your local Fire Marshal as "stupid". He should be your best friend, as the two of you have a common goal: that of keeping the occupants of your building safe from fire. You've never met the person, so I don't think you have any right to judge his intellect or demean his character.
#2. A Fire Marshal is not, necessarily, a Safety Officer, and has little, if any, jurisdiction over fall-protection. You might want to check with your local OSHA office on safe working conditions, however...
#3. It should not take any outside party for an employee to convince administration ("bean-counters") to take precautionary measures to ensure a safe working environment. You were, in theory, hired for your position because of your knowledge and experience. You should be able to draft a written report detailing the problems you see, or foresee, and offer realistic and budget-conscious solutions. Again, citing OSHA regulations or other "industry-standard" practices may be used to help make your case.
#4. Find out who the insurance carrier is for both worker's compensation and general liability. Often the bean counters will listen to an insurance inspector over all others if he threatens to not issue a policy until unsafe wiring is brought up to code, fall-protection procedures are established, etc.
#5. Know the code(s) applicable to your situation. NFPA Article 70 (NEC) Section 520, most likely applies, as does NFPA 70E.
#6. Join, and participate in, USITT and ESTA, as they develop the standards with which we all must comply. Safety is as much your responsibility as the AHJs.
#7. *Never* work in a theatre alone, with or without a cellphone. How long to you want to be on the floor, writhing in pain, unable to reach your cellphone, until someone wanders by?


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## Van (Jul 16, 2008)

*re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

A. We should move this thread to a different forum as things in the Punching bag are deleted after a few days and I feel this topic may yeild some intersting background info for other folks in your situation. 
B. Fire Marshals are actually only capable of citing fire code infractions. Most of what you describe falls under the purview of either an Electrical inspector, OSHA, or the Campus Director or Office of Safety. 

This is such a tricky dicey area. I've worked in plenty of scary venues over the years < many of them in small towns in Oklahoma BTW > and dealing with Campus Beaucracy can be a real *****. You want a safe venue to work in, you should be afforded a safe venue, but as soon as you raise a stink Admin either shuts down the program shuts you up and shuffles you off. I've seen it happen several times. I like the campuses where only the Maintenance crews < janitors, and the like> can change lamps, move fixtures, etc. because,"... it found to be too dangerous a job for the students."
I'd start with your campus Safety office, or the campus Maintenance department, they are responsible for maintaining a safe and up to coade facility, se if you can approach the head of that department , and request a walkthough with him < you know it's going to be a fat guy in a baseball cap, right ? > Try, when doing the walkthrough, to not sound whiny or flabbergasted or disdainful, but approach everything from a standpoint of " once this was considered OK but it's time to re-exam some basic new safety rules."
Hope this works out for you, Keep us informed of your journey.


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## Dally (Jul 16, 2008)

*re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

You know...I thought about changing the title of this thread too when I first posted it, but just couldn't come up with anything else. And my frustration with the fire marshall whom I've never met is surely misplaced, the reason it fell on him is that the way I was told about it was kinda along the lines of..."Well we were really trying, but the fire marshall didn't care, so the university won't do anything. Forget it." I guess thats what I get for actually venting right away is the whole not thinking a whole lot about it before I type. I will definately do some more research on what all specific code violations are. My tech theatre teacher at OU had told me that when he started there he asked OSHA to do a walk-through and tell him anything that needs to be fixed, I might see if I can get them to do that for me, although its a very intimadating thought to attempt to fix EVERYTHING thats wrong. 
I'm also going to talk to the maintainance dept. and see what if anything they might be able to do to help fix this. I've been told they refuse to touch any of the wiring in there...but maybe another attempt will be the one to do it. 
And I'll check into the insurance too, cause that does seem like something that would force them to fix things. 
Thanks for the thoughts, and I will defienatly keep you updated/pester you for other thoughts on this.


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## jwl868 (Jul 17, 2008)

*re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

I can’t add much to Van’s and Derek’s replies. 

So that you can speak with some confidence and knowledge, you can find specific information about ladders and fall protection at OSHA’s website or the OSHA regulations in Title 29 Code of Federal Regulations Part 1910 (Occupational Health and Safety Standards.) See Subpart D – Walking and Working Surfaces beginning at 29 CFR 1910.21 where fixed ladders and fall protection are addressed.

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

You may also need to refer to 29 CFR 1926 regarding Construction Industry Standards. You should also see if there is a State OSHA and if their rules have any differences. (Many States simply refer to the federal regulations.) 

The OSHA regulations are tedious, have numerous internal cross-references, and are difficult to read. It will take a reading or two (or three) to understand what you really need. Also, the OSHA website includes many “plain-language” summaries and related documents.

Don’t count on being able to get any direct agency assistance – OSHA is understaffed and their limited resources are directed toward major industries. Your state probably has an OSHA “hotline” that you can call. It may be an anonymous. But bear in mind that an OSHA inspection will lead to a list of violations to be addressed and (as noted by Van) one administrative recourse is to shut things down, rather than make any improvements. Also note that the administration may essentially ignore the OSHA violations and take no action – again, because of limited funding, OSHA has little time to follow up on enforcement.

Might be a long shot (what with college “turfs” to consider), but if your college has any sort of departments that teach environmental programs, health, or engineering, there may be someone (professor/instructor) who can inspect and/or assist you. (For example, industrial engineering and public health often include occupational issues.)


You should consider preparing some sort of list of problems with potential solutions and set priorities. Address the biggest hazards first. There may even be easy fixes of lesser hazards that can be dealt with in the near future, too.

Joe


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## clbarker (Jul 18, 2008)

*re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

If you're looking for someone outside your orginazation to tell you the problems, a detailed inspection from someone like Custom Stage Services could be an option. They did one for us and recommended fall arrest systems in various high risk areas and we had them installed rather promptly. Awesome people to work with and it sounds like an inspection is just what you need.


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## hillbillyfunk (Jul 18, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


Van said:


> .... many of them in small towns in Oklahoma BTW > and dealing with Campus Beaucracy can be a real *****.



Hmm... that sounds like Tahlequah


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## Van (Jul 18, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


hillbillyfunk said:


> Hmm... that sounds like Tahlequah


 
To quote Schultzie,

" I know Nothing, Nothing"


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## VeeDubTDI (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

I am facing a couple of these problems myself. The appropriate people to go to are the folks in your Buildings & Grounds Office (Maintenance, Facilities, Engineers, whatever you want to call them). They should have the electrician come out and take a look at your wiring and make the necessary repairs.

I've found that problems usually aren't fixed because people don't go to the appropriate department with requests. I can tell my custodians/janitors about a leaking faucet until the oceans dry up, but they're not going to fix it.

As for safety cages on the ladders and railings in the catwalks, I think you're probably going to open up a big can of red tape worms if you start squawking about that. It's a shame to say, but knowing how college campuses work, I don't think you'll make it very far with that request.

I'm starting to fight the battle of getting all of my rigging replaced. I'll tell you, it's not a fun battle... not in the least.

Good Luck!


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## gafftaper (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

Yeah I have to agree that the fire marshal is not the one to be upset at. He really can't do much in these areas. You need to look toward OSHA... but don't start there unless you want to have everyone on campus mad at you. 

Step one. Study the law and create a list of hazards that concern you. 
The first thing I would do is drop $80 and pick up a copy of Dr. Doom's book Practical Health and Safety Guidelines for School Theater Operations This book will really help you identify the safety risks. It will also be a great resource for step two. 

Second, go to your campus risk management people and ask them to come take a tour with you. Remember its that person's job to find dangers and figure out how to make things safer, so this person is your biggest ally. Have Dr. Doom's book on hand with issues tagged and easy to find so you can point out what he says in the book and the real life problems. You'll probably scare the crap out of this person... I wouldn't show them every problem, just pick a few blatant ones. 

Third is to work with the Administration and the Risk Management department to propose solutions that won't be extremely expensive. 

It's going to be a long fight. Find the most dangerous things and address them first. Don't ask for $100k up front, ask for $10k a year to fix things in phases.


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## Dally (Aug 7, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

In an update.... I've been going through OSHA regs, and making a list of specific rules that we are breaking, I've also made a list of all of the safety issues I could spot, and am slowly adding more as I find them.
I'm trying to knock the smaller items off the list, i.e. stage weights that are the wrong size for the arbors just smashed on diagonally; I've almost replaced them all with the correct size, still working on the last few to get them off. I'm really just trying to either fix or come up with a cost effective solution for everything. 
Which I've mainly succeeded on, all except the wiring. Or un-grounded outlets. I'm turning off the dimmers for my stage plugs because we don't have adapters, or the lights to utilize them anyhow. The wiring is the main issue however, so I'm just working on putting a sound argument together before I present it to administration. So thats about it, slow and steady wins the race is what I hear. 
But I'll definately be buying Dr.Dooms book...any resources of other people saying the same thing is always good in an appeal for help.


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## DaveySimps (Aug 7, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

+1 on the Dr. Doom book. I got it last year, and it is a fantastic resource. Lots of information.

~Dave


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## cdub260 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


Dally said:


> ...he asked OSHA to do a walk-through and tell him anything that needs to be fixed...



Shortly after our new shop building was completed, we had OSHA do a walkthrough. The inspector found several issues, that we, frankly, would never even have thought about, but overall found our new building to be safe and in compliance with OSHA regulations and gave us suggestions on how to deal with the problems that came up in the inspection. We fixed the issues that were brought up, and now have a safer shop facility because we took the initiative and asked OSHA for their help. The inspector commented that she wished more organizations would do what we did.


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## cdub260 (Aug 15, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


Van said:


> To quote Schultzie,
> 
> " I know Nothing, Nothing"



I believe it was "I know Nothink, Nothink."


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## Fireguy551 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

I was TD/Ops manager for a university venue that hadn't had any love since the 70s. The best thing I did was make friends with the head of the maintenance department (Janitorial, Electrical, Grounds and General Maintenance) Throwing the heads comp tickets to your show will get you at the top of the friend lists. 

For minor repairs that don't require an electrical license or permits offer to get your staff to help in the repair if they get you the parts. I am willing to bet that your building isn't the only sore spot on the campus for the safety department. You should also view your relationship with the campus fire marshal and the safty guy should be a partnership. Sit down the 3 of you and talk about what can be done to fix the building until a renovation can happen. Maybe take the initiative and get some approved vendors in to do estimates on repairs?

Just a couple of random thoughts...


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## FMEng (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

More and more colleges and universities have an occupational health and safety officer. They are your friend. I would imagine that larger school districts are hiring them, too. 

Don't expect overnight miracles on costlier changes, but things can eventually happen once you get onto the budget radar. Budgets are often planned a year or two in advance.


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## SHARYNF (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*

Can you explain the ungrounded outlets? are they standard edison and the ground is not connected or are they two pin plugs? 
Sharyn


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## philhaney (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


Dally said:


> ... lights that they cut the ground off of to make work...




SHARYNF said:


> Can you explain the ungrounded outlets? are they standard edison and the ground is not connected or are they two pin plugs?
> Sharyn



If the theater is old enough, there may be two-prong (same size or one pin wider) Edison outlets in the walls, but my guess here is that someone used a two-prong _household_ extension cord and pulled the ground pin on the instrument to make it fit. I'll bet they nipped the wings off the neutral pin on the extension cord (if it was polarized), too.


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## derekleffew (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Stupid Fire Marshal*


SHARYNF said:


> Can you explain the ungrounded outlets? are they standard edison and the ground is not connected or are they two pin plugs?
> Sharyn


Receptacles are two-pin Bates females. Rather than drilling a center hole as most would do, users apparently removed the center pin on fixtures' males'.


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## dvsDave (Sep 3, 2008)

I changed the title of [-]the[/-] this thread. The content and advice is too valuable not to be under [-]that[/-] the current heading (easier to find).


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## thenelsontwins (Sep 6, 2008)

A tricky subject here. On one hand you have what you believe needs to be done and people unwilling to spend the money to do it. How do you convince them that this is not optional. 
There are a couple of options from my years as the Safety Nazi for my previous employers. 
1) You can do nothing and hope for the best. 
2) You can do nothing and hope that once someone is injured or dies the administration will do something. 
3) You can scream and yell to the administration. 
4) You can cry at the administration. 
5) You can speak clearly to the administration. 
6) You can call OSHA. 
7) You can invite the Fire Marshall back. 
8) You can call your local electrical inspector. 
9) this goes on forever and ever... 

lists of what to do get one nowhere! 

You just have to do SOMETHING. CRY FOUL! Do everything! That is the only option. YOU MUST. If you feel in imminent danger then you are probably in IMMINENT DANGER. 

If an accident happens (god forbid), no matter what your situation with the school, YOU can be held liable. I know I will probably catch some flack for that statement, but yes, YOU are protected by the insurance of the school, and yes, the school is protected by insurance, but if someone dies on the job or is seriously injured, YOU can still be held liable. Do not listen to the others who tell you that you will not be held responsible if something goes awry because you are covered by the school's insurance. Protect YOURSELF and don't let it get to that point. 

If you are the TD then YOU are the responsible party for what happens in the space. You are responsible for crying foul. You are the one responsible for protecting the health and welfare of your workers and students. If something is wrong YOU have to get it fixed. 

You have no choice if you want to stay at this job. YOU have to get the administration on your side. You have to convince them that things are broken and need to get fixed. Bring in ESTA inspectors they know the rules that pertain to theaters and such venues, after that if there is no action, bring in OSHA, and work your way down the line to your local dog catcher if necessary. 

An administration's unwillingness to fix problems should not be your responsibility. Get independent, outside people on YOUR side. If you have facts from independent inspectors and you give those facts to the administration then the administration is OBLIGATED to fix those problems. They then become the MORE liable party. This does not get you off the hook, but at least they become more willing to DO SOMETHING if they start to become aware that this could be something that effects their bottom line. A lawsuit, workman's comp, or increased insurance costs will most assuredly motivate them to start taking a hard look at problems and what to do about them. 

This is a fight that you have to win. You have to scare them into listening. The thought of a dead (or amputated) student terrifies administrations. Not because of the injury, but because of the lawsuit and insurance. A worker injured is simple and normal and covered by workman's comp, etc. etc., but a student or OUTSIDE worker is something else entirely. 

If you are afraid to work, the administration should be more afraid. How much do you like this job? You have to be willing to do the right thing so you stay protected. You have to protect the students and workers. The termination of a program is a reality. The termination of a job is also a reality. If you are being set up to work in an unsafe environment, you do not have to accept those terms. You have to say NO and get things changed, or be willing to leave. 

"I will not do that because it is unsafe" are some of the most beautiful words in the english language. 


Cover your A** because that is EXACTLY what the school will do for themselves. They will look for the same thing the insurance company will look for, a fall guy.


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## Dally (Sep 18, 2008)

I agree with much of that, except the begginning. "lists of what to do get one nowhere!".

Maybe I'm just a list-maker. I make lists for everything, from what needs to be done, to packing for a trip. And while list making in and of itself doesn't _accomplish _anything. To me, making a list is a way of thinking through something. It enables me to not just focus on one issue, and try to see the big picture. I.e. before I made a list of problems with this theatre, mainly I was just freaking out about the wiring and general lack of safety. There were other smaller issues that I thought of while making my list, that weren't quite as likely to get someone killed, but dangerous none the less. So while making my list didn't accomplish anything real. It enabled me to think reasonably about the problems at hand, and what the logical solutions would be to fix them. As well as recognizing other smaller and more easily solved problems. Thus allowing me to take action other than writing on a rant list (which is where this initially was b/c I was quite frustrated). 
So while I appreciate your telling me to do something instead of just sitting and making lists, this is my process to doing something. Frustration doesn't help get things done. So, if I can sit and get my frustration out before I go speak with the University President about the issues at hand, and because of my having thought it out, have a concise list of everything wrong when he asks, I think that is better than just jumping the gun doing something. Because the wrong thing won't neccessarily help your cause.


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