# upgrades/renovations of hs theater fly and lighting/electrical sytems



## sotalight16 (Feb 19, 2011)

I am a student at a highschool and we are curently trying to come into the new era of safety equipment and gear. Most of our stuff is at least 15 years old and the dimmers are failing and circuts are dieing. The fly system is is oldset thing there and the ropes havent been changed in over 30 years. The breaks on the cyc line dont work, loft blocks are broken and its quite dismal. I am creating the lists of equipmet we need and that encludes the systems in the theater. I am wondering of any products that are inexpensive that will work in a highly opperational theater. Im not meening cheap im just trying to keep the budget lower.


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## soundlight (Feb 19, 2011)

A couple of things:

1) Purchasing things in a school setting is tricky. There are usually numerous people involved, and for something as expensive as an overhaul like this, it'll definitely go out for bid. This can be a good thing or a bad thing, which is why...

2) you should hire a theatrical consultant to come in, examine your systems and see what needs to be done. Such a person will know how the bid-writing process works, know what you need in order to pass certain codes, and know what is required for your systems to become both operational and safe. Such person will also know which vendors and contractors should be clued in to this bid.

3) You will need to have qualified professionals replace any equipment that is part of a permanent install. This is very important. You can easily replace things like audio cables, old tools that you want to replace, things like that without getting someone else involved - but for things like this you need a consultant and qualified contractors for your renovations.


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## sotalight16 (Feb 19, 2011)

yes all this i know i am just wondering bout the products themselves because we need to know what products will benifit our theater.


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## MNicolai (Feb 19, 2011)

That's a very general statement that we cannot work off of. When it comes to rigging, the only person who can really figure out what you need is a rigger who has done an on-site inspection. As for lighting, we would need to know a lot more about what you have, what works, what doesn't, what you need, what you want, what you'd be using it for (not what you'd _want_ to use it for, but what you'd _actually_ be using it for). We can make lists for you of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of products that are cool and could benefit your theatre, but it does you no good unless we can make connections between what problems your trying to fix and possible solutions for those problems.

You speak as if you already have a tight handle on the situation, but there are three things that make an idea a real project:

1) There is one person who is in charge of it of whose authority (in relation to the project) supersedes that of anyone else involved. (hint: this is not you)
2) It has a budget -- somewhere there is an actual line item on a financial document that says how much money is available for the project.
3) There's a deadline.

The first pretty important question is what oversight is there of this? Is this just a thing you're trying to do on your own or has a district administrator asked you your opinion? Do you already report to someone about this or are you just doing research with the hopes you'll be able to make _some_ argument to _some_ person that will result in lots of money suddenly getting dumped into the theatre?

Who's the person at the top of the food chain for this idea -- the person who either gives it a green light or tells you there's no money for it, and have you spoken to them about this at all?


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## sotalight16 (Feb 19, 2011)

MNicolai said:


> That's a very general statement that we cannot work off of. When it comes to rigging, the only person who can really figure out what you need is a rigger who has done an on-site inspection. As for lighting, we would need to know a lot more about what you have, what works, what doesn't, what you need, what you want, what you'd be using it for (not what you'd _want_ to use it for, but what you'd _actually_ be using it for). We can make lists for you of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of products that are cool and could benefit your theatre, but it does you no good unless we can make connections between what problems your trying to fix and possible solutions for those problems.
> 
> You speak as if you already have a tight handle on the situation, but there are three things that make an idea a real project:
> 
> ...


 
well what works our the lighting and sound consols. The lighting console no longer is suporting the needs of where the thater is going so it is to be replaced. The dimmer racks are malfuntioning and our vendor is going to give us a bid on new ones. Our curcits arent wired properly and are not working( this is partially to do with the dimmer racks). Our fly system has battens that wont lock, the lines have too much give and the arbor is broken on some lines. I dont know how we are even allowed to opperate. The person at the top of the fod chain is the acting theater tech department head of my school and has deligated the resposibilitys of finding the products to update the theater with to me. The budget is limited but labor for this project has been offered by certified profesionals at a discounted price or as a donation.


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## Footer (Feb 19, 2011)

What do you have now? Any dimmer rack installed in the last 15 years still have plenty of life left in it. If its ETC or Strand all the parts are still available to keep them running long into the future. Wiring can be fixed. A 15 year old lighting console could be due for an upgrade depending on what you currently have. Sounds like right now you guys need to get everything working and then look at a maintenance schedule. And as far as the rigging goes, your going to need to get someone in there to really look at the situation. If something looks wrong, it probably is and should be taken out of service until it is fixed.


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## sotalight16 (Feb 19, 2011)

Footer said:


> What do you have now? Any dimmer rack installed in the last 15 years still have plenty of life left in it. If its ETC or Strand all the parts are still available to keep them running long into the future. Wiring can be fixed. A 15 year old lighting console could be due for an upgrade depending on what you currently have. Sounds like right now you guys need to get everything working and then look at a maintenance schedule. And as far as the rigging goes, your going to need to get someone in there to really look at the situation. If something looks wrong, it probably is and should be taken out of service until it is fixed.


 
The dimmer rack is a brand (cant remember off the top of my head) that is no longer operational, it is not ETC or any other major company on the market today. It is older than 15 years seeing as the board itself is from 1995 or so and the board is newer than the rack. We have had people come in and tell us that it needs to be replaced and fixed. That we need backings or harnesses for our ladders and such. We have very little safety equipment and that is the first priorety but the way anything is going to get done in there is if we do all the leg work and fix it all at once because of the way the school district opperates. We are the most run down school in the district and we are an art school. funny how it happens.


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 19, 2011)

Footer said:


> What do you have now? Any dimmer rack installed in the last 15 years still have plenty of life left in it. If its ETC or Strand all the parts are still available to keep them running long into the future. Wiring can be fixed. A 15 year old lighting console could be due for an upgrade depending on what you currently have. Sounds like right now you guys need to get everything working and then look at a maintenance schedule. And as far as the rigging goes, your going to need to get someone in there to really look at the situation. If something looks wrong, it probably is and should be taken out of service until it is fixed.



I agree on the ETC side of things, but we have Strand SLD96 dimmer racks that are no longer supported by Strand and we are forced to purchase spare parts on the secondary market. They are less than a decade old. Same kind of thing with our Strand consoles, but they were end of life when purchased new.

First thing I'd suggest, as Footer stated, is that you need a good maintenance overhaul. If you can get some knowledgeable technicians in and repair what you have, then you can more easily assess what your absolute needs are for replacement. We would all love to chuck our systems after ten or twenty years, but it takes an immense amount of time for educational facilities in particular to make those upgrades. 

It looks like you have a good survey of your systems and where the problem areas are. Focus on life safety issues first of all (will require a qualified professional to truly determine what needs replacing. Randall Davidson, aka "Dr. Doom", is a great resource for evaluating an educational facility. Have your instructor contact him or another member of ISETSA to get a run down of your safety needs and have them taken care of. After that, concentrate on what would make your performances better. If you still seem to have extra budget, go for some bells and whistles (at least you aren't looking for these first, good for you).


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## Footer (Feb 19, 2011)

ruinexplorer said:


> I agree on the ETC side of things, but we have Strand SLD96 dimmer racks that are no longer supported by Strand and we are forced to purchase spare parts on the secondary market. They are less than a decade old. Same kind of thing with our Strand consoles, but they were end of life when purchased new.


I work in a facility with 1970's era Strand/Century dimmers that are still fully functional. No, strand does not support them anymore but plenty of people do. Anything can be fixed. You can never trust a vendor who comes in and says "yep, replace it", especially in a public institution. Yes, I would love to see the 35 year old 6k and 12k dimmers go away, but its what we got, and until 3 million dollars falls out of the air they are not going away anytime soon.


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## DuckJordan (Feb 19, 2011)

It sounds really like you need to talk your TD to hire a consultant, there is so much goign on with "new" dimmers, "New" board and rigging work that the budget for this overhaul is going to easily go into the 100k+ range. Volenteer work is nice but when it comes to rigging only ETCP certified riggers or those trained and supervised by should ever touch any kind of repair or replacement on your fly's.

I'm sorry to say but this seems way over your head and its something that would be a great resource but unless we were to see your space and what was okay and what had to be replace.


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## museav (Feb 20, 2011)

The very fact that you apparently "just wondering bout the products themselves because we need to know what products will benifit our theater" suggests you need some help. Product selection should come later in a more comprehensive process. Typically, you would first have someone with appropriate experience and expertise assess what you have and what you are trying to do so that you can establish your basic goals and vision. Whit that established, someone would then develop a basic concept for a solution that supports the goals defined. That concept may assume some specific equipment but would typically be more focused on what the equipment needs to do in order to support the functionality and goals defined. That system concept then provides the basis to start selecting specific equipment.

In general I look at it pretty simply, if you goal is to buy equipment then that is where you should start. However, if the goal is to solve problems or make improvements then those are where you should start. Define the goals, develop a functional concept for a solution that supports those goals and then select the equipment that supports the goals and concept developed. Also be aware that with rigging and lighting there are aspects of that work that likely have to be addressed by qualified, and in some cases licensed, professionals.


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