# ETCP-Certified...



## jongaduet (May 11, 2009)

So does being ETCP certified basically let you officially say "I know what I'm doing" ?

It seems like "certified" is always a good thing to be, but I'm not sure if anyone in my town would care if I was certified much less know what it meant.

What are the benefits? Should I do it? I'm trying to figure out how to spin it to get my boss to pay for it...if I decide to do it.

Anyways, any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated. 

spanks alot


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## derekleffew (May 11, 2009)

From ETCP - Calls For Action - ETCP Information Gathering, Current Calls For Action, Previous Survey Results :

> *Why should I become certified?
> *Obtaining an ETCP certification gives an entertainment technician a stamp that says, “I am confident in my abilities, and you can trust that I know what I am doing.” ETCP certification helps employers immediately identify riggers and electricians with proven capabilities. Companies that hire ETCP Certified Riggers and Entertainment Electricians, are saying that they want to further an industry-wide standard that ensures the safest possible workplace and a highly efficient workforce. Major employers and unions have devoted many hours and dollars to the development of the program with the intention to integrate these certifications for lead positions into job bids and contracts. In fact, a few months ago, two major industry employers, Live Nation and Global Spectrum, announced the signing of collective bargaining agreements with IATSE which phase in a requirement for ETCP certified technicians in a variety of venues operated by the two companies. The new agreements call for IATSE to provide the venues with an ETCP Certified Rigger at any rigging call and an ETCP Certified head Electrician where a lead position is required. Most contracts call for a one to three year phase-in of the requirement.


The best reason of all may be that you'll get to join CB members abbyt, STEVETERRY, JohnHuntington, derekleffew, dbthetd (Theatre Rigging and Recognized Trainer), http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/dbthetd.htmland (new CB member) Marko66. 

And you get a couple of sheets of stickers:


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## STEVETERRY (May 11, 2009)

jongaduet said:


> So does being ETCP certified basically let you officially say "I know what I'm doing" ?
> 
> It seems like "certified" is always a good thing to be, but I'm not sure if anyone in my town would care if I was certified much less know what it meant.
> 
> ...



Your boss should pay for it because it will reduce his liability, qualify his staff, and it's an important continuing education experience to study for and pass the exam. No matter where you started, you will know more when you study for and pass the exam.

It will differentiate you from other "self-declared" experts--there is not much arguing with an ETCP certification. In short, it will make you more marketable.

You should do it! What if you don't always work in Columbia? I realize it's a well-known hotbed of theatre activity , but in LA, NYC, Chicago, Vegas--an ETCP certification can help!


ST


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## abbyt (May 11, 2009)

I agree with what Steve said, and am not sure I could have said it much better myself. *waving* to Steve from nearby Greenway Station...

In my own world of install sales, field service, and the occasional production work (mostly corporate), my certification has helped me and seems to increasingly do so, as time goes on and more people gain an understanding of just what the certification means. From install specs that require an ETCP Certified Entertainment Electrician to be in charge of the lighting system install project, to working in various venues around the country who recognize the certification and automatically grant me a certain amount of automatic acceptance (that I am knowledgeable in my craft), I've been exceedingly glad that I took the test and decided to become certified. I understand some insurance companies recognize this commitment to safe practices and are inclined to give discounts on premiums. 

I can't say that I've seen it necessarily gain me any more respect than I might not otherwise have had (but then again, I'm not totally sure about that) but I do know that, being a female and sometimes dealing with the hurdles that come with that, I get many less arguments when I point out something unsafe or "wrong", or offer valid alternate safe ways of doing something.

My employer paid for me to take the test. My company policy is that they will pay for it (pass or fail, and retakes one fails) as long as one doesn't leave the company within a certain number of years (then the company expects to be reimbursed for the test fees). We are also an ETCP Certified Employer, so our goal, in hiring anyone, is that they will work towards the goal of ultimately becoming certified, once they're experienced and knowledgeable enough to do so.

I give it a big *thumbs up* and recommend to anyone, if they are able to get certified, then they should pursue doing so.

Was any of this info useful? Let us know how it turns out!

-Abby Tutorow


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## genericcomment (May 11, 2009)

So being in college I should take ETCP in consideration for later? Sounds like something that could get my foot in the door.


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## soundman (May 11, 2009)

genericcomment said:


> So being in college I should take ETCP in consideration for later? Sounds like something that could get my foot in the door.



Most likely you won't be able to take it until you are a few years out of school unless you are a returning student. You need so many points and a degree that is theatre related is only worth a fraction of the total needed to be able to sit for the exam.


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## epimetheus (May 12, 2009)

This is purely an academic question, since I doubt I'll have enough points to sit for the exam any time soon, but would Electrical Engineering be an applicable degree? I'm not working in theater right now, but I have a significant interest in it. And I like having letters behind my name.


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## STEVETERRY (May 12, 2009)

A "non-entertainment-technology related" undergraduate degree gets you 3 out of 30 eligibility points.

For the full story on eligibility, see:

ETCP - The Entertainment Technician Certification Program

ST


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## church (May 12, 2009)

It is interesting to see the debate on this certification - which is a U.S. based qualification particularly with tours that cross borders.

Here in Canada the situation varies in details from Province to Province but the situation is the same in principle. Each Province has Apprenticeship Acts that identify the scope of work that can only be performed by a licenced Journeyperson or apprentice. These acts cover different types of Electricians which restrict electrical installation work to only licenced Electricians and Apprentices. Applies to theatres. Once something is installed then in some instances maintenance of some equipment can be performed by qualified persons - employer deems who is qualified. These acts also apply to Millwrighting which covers rigging. 

Each Province also has an Engineers Act or Engineers and Geologists act which restricts all engineering design work including evaluating and supervising to only those individuals licenced in each Province. Some work is exempt i.e. house design where all of the design is covered by the wood allowable tables in the the provincial building codes similar for some steel work. But after that you need an engineer.

The ETCP certifications provide a useful way of an employer identifying the "competent person" for work that is not covered by the various Provincial Acts. The challange as always is knowing where the limits are and when to bring in the appropriate persons. All of these have a role to play and all can and do work together.

If you are doing an undergraduate level engineering degree you should decide what type of work you want to do if you want to do engineering work then get your engineers licence this should be your priority. If not then pursue the certification needed for the work you want to do.


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## Footer (May 12, 2009)

epimetheus said:


> This is purely an academic question, since I doubt I'll have enough points to sit for the exam any time soon, but would Electrical Engineering be an applicable degree? I'm not working in theater right now, but I have a significant interest in it. And I like having letters behind my name.



As Steve said, it does not matter what your degree is in if its not theatre technology. I have also met a few electrical engineers that I would not let wire a plug. Now, if you are a Journeyman or Master licensed electrician, that will give you some points fast.


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## epimetheus (May 12, 2009)

Footer said:


> As Steve said, it does not matter what your degree is in if its not theatre technology. I have also met a few electrical engineers that I would not let wire a plug. Now, if you are a Journeyman or Master licensed electrician, that will give you some points fast.



Touche...

I've met quite a few of those myself, and luckily, I'm not one. Theater Tech is more of a hobby for my inquisitive mind anyway. In reality I just like all the blinky lights. I tried getting into the industry professionaly when I graduated college, unsuccessfully however. Of course I was unaware of CB then. Now I've been working in the Power Engineering industry long enough that I don't think I'm going anywhere. I'll take the PE exam in a few months anyway.


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## gafftaper (May 12, 2009)

Just a few general thoughts. ETCP is new. While it may seem unnecessary at this point. It would be very wise for all of us to consider in our long range goals. There are MANY advantages to employers to only hire ETCP certified people. Give it time. Give employers time to figure out why ETCP is good for them. You can easily see that 5 or 10 years from now it will become more and more difficult for people who are not ETCP certified to get a job over those who are. That said, it may take you 5 years out of college to accumulate all the points you need to take the exam. 

To the old pro out there thinking, "I've done this for 20 years I don't need any stinking certification"... you might want to rethink that. Look 5 years down the road when all the new kids coming out of college now have their certification and you don't. You will find yourself in a position where over and over you have to prove that you know what you are doing while the kids just show their certificate. Once employers find out the benefits of hiring ETCP certified people, it could become increasingly difficult for you to get a job. So yeah you don't need the certificate *yet*, but that could easily change over the next 5-10 years as certification becomes more accepted and common. It would be extremely unwise to gamble your future employment on the current demand for something so new. Look into it more carefully and I think you'll see why I believe it's going to become more and more important in the future.


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## jongaduet (May 12, 2009)

yeah, after some thought is definitely seems like something good to go for. I just saw the eligibility requirements and they are a bit scary. I mean I've been doing lights basically for 40 hours a week for 2 years now ideally giving me 40 (plenty of) points, but I'm a little uneasy about how they may "verify" this... 

It would be awesome to go journeyman...


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## STEVETERRY (May 12, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> Just a few general thoughts. ETCP is new. While it may seem unnecessary at this point. It would be very wise for all of us to consider in our long range goals. There are MANY advantages to employers to only hire ETCP certified people. Give it time. Give employers time to figure out why ETCP is good for them. You can easily see that 5 or 10 years from now it will become more and more difficult for people who are not ETCP certified to get a job over those who are. That said, it may take you 5 years out of college to accumulate all the points you need to take the exam.
> 
> To the old pro out there thinking, "I've done this for 20 years I don't need any stinking certification"... you might want to rethink that. Look 5 years down the road when all the new kids coming out of college now have their certification and you don't. You will find yourself in a position where over and over you have to prove that you know what you are doing while the kids just show their certificate. Once employers find out the benefits of hiring ETCP certified people, it could become increasingly difficult for you to get a job. So yeah you don't need the certificate *yet*, but that could easily change over the next 5-10 years as certification becomes more accepted and common. It would be extremely unwise to gamble your future employment on the current demand for something so new. Look into it more carefully and I think you'll see why I believe it's going to become more and more important in the future.



Well said!

ST


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## Esoteric (May 13, 2009)

Being a designer and not an electrician I am saving my money for a USA membership.

But I have found that my (all be it old) union card gets me just as much respect and it took me a lot longer to get. *lol*

Mike


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## porkchop (May 13, 2009)

Esoteric said:


> Being a designer and not an electrician I am saving my money for a USA membership.
> 
> But I have found that my (all be it old) union card gets me just as much respect and it took me a lot longer to get. *lol*
> Mike



I'm an IATSE member with a traveling card (for you that don't deal with IA that means I can work most anywhere given the right reasons) and I will still take the ETCP test later this year. Having an IATSE card is a good thing in many places but in too many others it means that you worked an over hire call and didn't get thrown off the call so they accepted you as a local member. ETCP is at very least a nation wide basis as to what to expect from people with this certification. 

Take it from a road guy, when you come into a local you know nothing about you expect the worst from all of your local crew, but at the same time my company hires only certified local riggers. I have never second guessed my riggers, my other locals.... yah not so much


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## iLightTheStage (May 13, 2009)

*Question for the ETCP Certified members*

I have decided that my summer project will be studying to hopefully take the ETCP test in the fall (I think USITT is in Vegas this fall and does the test). I would prefer those who went through the process to answer the following questions for me:

1) How did you actually study for the exam? What resources did you use (specific books, dvds, websites, etc)?

2) What was required of you to "prove" your points? I have a BFA in Design/Tech, and have been freelancing for 5+ years. But I've never had a permanent "position" on a show or with a company. Are my Excel "make sure the paychecks match the hours" files, with company contact info, enough to prove my points?

3) Any other helpful information/tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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## derekleffew (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Question for the ETCP Certified members*

Above post moved here from its own thread.

ETCP Candidate Information/Electrical.

iLightTheStage said:


> ...1) How did you actually study for the exam? What resources did you use (specific books, dvds, websites, etc)?


I strongly believe this is not a test you can/should "cram" for. I purposefully did not study very much, so that I would have an convenient excuse if I failed. Luckily I didn't need the excuse, finished the test in much less than the time allotted, and found it easier than I had expected. Go over the Examination Content listed in the Candidate Handbook. Make sure you understand each and every category. The number of questions identifies the relative importance of the topic. Identify your strengths, and more importantly, your shortcomings. If you've never worked with film/TV lighting, peruse Harry C. Box's _Set Lighting Technician's Handbook_. If you've never worked with arena rigging, Harry Donovan's _Entertainment Rigging_ (a surprise to many: there are, a few, rigging questions on the Electrician Exam!). NFPA 70E _Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace_ is a must. Even Steve Shelley's _A Practical Guide to Stage Lighting_ is useful. I may have forgotten some, the bibliography on the website is exhaustive. ESTA Foundation Electrical Bibliography.


iLightTheStage said:


> 2) What was required of you to "prove" your points? I have a BFA in Design/Tech, and have been freelancing for 5+ years. But I've never had a permanent "position" on a show or with a company. Are my Excel "make sure the paychecks match the hours" files, with company contact info, enough to prove my points?


That's essentially what I did. While the committee wants to verify that you have the requisite experience, it is not their goal to grill you over the coals to prove your worthiness. If additional information is needed, Meredith will let you know.


iLightTheStage said:


> ...3) Any other helpful information/tips/advice would be greatly appreciated.


As odd as it may seem, I found the psychological advice on test taking useful. Referring to my answer to #1 above, you either know the material or you don't. Stay calm and relaxed. Don't tell anyone you're taking the test until after you've passed.

Oh, and you needn't need to wait for USITT or LDI. (BTW, this year's LDI is in Orlando, 11/19-22/09; USITT is in Kansas City, March, 2010.) The test is available on computer at any time at over 170 H&R block locations. Personally, I found taking the test in confidence, on a computer, less stressful than had I taken a "pencil and paper" exam at a conference. And I had my results within minutes of completion.

Good luck, and congratulations on making the commitment.


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## Sony (May 16, 2009)

*Re: Question for the ETCP Certified members*

I personally can't wait to take the ETCP exam, I know however I have at least a few years before I'm even eligible to take the exam but it is definitely something I want to do as soon as possible. I believe I have around 17 points already as I will have my official B.A. in Technical Theatre in 7 days (I graduate on the 23rd of this month) which is 7 Points isn't it? I also have 2 summers worth of 40 hour weeks at Martha's Vineyard Performing Arts Center, which is about 6 months worth of professional hours for a total of about 960 hours. I also have probably 100 hours in other theatres such as The Zeiterion, Island Moving Company, and Trinity Repertory Company.


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## ngoik (Jul 18, 2009)

Im looking to get my Rigging certification. It said on the ETCP website that you need at least 30 points to take the test, and you get points by doing a certain amount of rigging work.

any tips on how to go about getting these hours? I found a staging company near by that does rigging and was wondering wether i should contact them? 

-Nat


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## shiben (Jul 18, 2009)

What qualifies as a technical theater degree? My college does not offer "technical theater", but i am the ME for the company and am following a more technical course of action. Would I qualify?


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## DaveySimps (Jul 18, 2009)

It is my understanding that it must be a degree in Theatre or Entertainment Technology (based on the name of the actual degree) to get the maximum degree points. 

~Dave


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## shiben (Jul 18, 2009)

Well the degree is BA Theater so it sounds like that qualifies?


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## Sony (Jul 18, 2009)

I'm pretty sure a BA in Theatre counts, I also have a BA in Theatre and I will be very pissed if it doesn't count 7 points towards the ETCP


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## gafftaper (Jul 19, 2009)

ngoik said:


> Im looking to get my Rigging certification. It said on the ETCP website that you need at least 30 points to take the test, and you get points by doing a certain amount of rigging work.
> any tips on how to go about getting these hours? I found a staging company near by that does rigging and was wondering wether i should contact them?
> -Nat



Hey Nat, 
ETCP is not a stamp of approval that you have completed some course work and are ready to begin doing a job (like a driver's license). It is a certification that you have years of experience and are already a master of doing your job (more like completing your work as a journeyman electrician). I see in your bio that you are 19. IF you were able to find someone willing to hire you to do rigging... which in itself is a difficult task. It will take you many years of full time rigging work until you are able to get ETCP certified. 

So how do you get started becoming a rigger? Well that's a difficult question to answer. College is a good start. Contacting that local staging company couldn't hurt. Get some training in rock climbing would be good. Take a course like those offered by Jay Glerum. All are good starts. It's a very touchy area because it's so dangerous. There are very few places that you can take a class to become a rigger... and even if you did you would still need years of work to prove you know anything... which is the reason for ETCP certification. What you have to do is put enough small pieces together on your resume until someone will hire you and train you for real. 

If I remember right this is what CB member What Rigger? told me about his path to becoming a rigger. He worked a variety of small rigging gigs and took all the basic training he could find. I believe he did a bunch of training with Ropeworks and maybe the Glerum class. Eventually he was able to impress one of the major entertainment rigging companies and got a job there. They then trained him their way to do the really dangerous stuff. Sadly there is no one clear path. You've just got to keep pushing. Moving to LA, Vegas, or NY would make things easier.


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## Esoteric (Jul 19, 2009)

I was in a rigging apprentice program with IATSE is how I got my start (it was an 18 month program). I have since had to give up rigging, but that is how I got started on my way to becoming a rigger.

Mike


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## mstaylor (Jul 20, 2009)

I am an arena rigger and am working on getting my certification. I will probably get both my rigging and electrical certifications. I need to look at the types of questions on the electrical test, I'm an electrician and am very familar in arena type electrial situations but many times tests like this get into more theory than what we actually do.


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## Goph704 (Jul 20, 2009)

So, looking at the information provided what is the difference between electrical experience, the internship and the apprentice programs? 
Here's my experince.
I have a BA in theater arts which should be 7 points.
I work with my local in Charlotte N.C. ( a right to work state )
I have 500 plus hours with my local but I am not a card holder.
I also work for a community college as a M.E./ LD. 
Using my Union standard for hours, ($15 dollars = 1 hour) 
I have over 2,000 credit hours which includes design work, but not all of that is recognized by my Local since there is a 150 day gap clause ( If you stop working for 150 days at a time you lose your hours, I had to to finish college, also my Union doesn't recognize design work.) 
I also worked construction for a year as an Industrial Electrician, and as a Control Electrician (HVAC) I am very interested in becoming certified but I haven't met anyone outside of this forum who has ever mentioned ETCP. Am I the type of person who should be taking this test? looking at the break down, I might have something close to the 30 hours required. But I'm not sure, can someone enlighten me? How does this work, do they contact you for jobs like the Union does? Are there Dues? I'm sorry I know so little about this but I am very interested in learning more. This looks like the thread to do so in. 
-Adam


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## STEVETERRY (Jul 20, 2009)

Goph704 said:


> So, looking at the information provided what is the difference between electrical experience, the internship and the apprentice programs?
> Here's my experince.
> I have a BA in theater arts which should be 7 points.
> I work with my local in Charlotte N.C. ( a right to work state )
> ...



You should definitely take the exam. You seem to have the work experience, and it's a great diversity of job types. Just be honest on the application about your hours, and name a supervisor who can verify the hours, if one is available.


ST


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## derekleffew (Jul 20, 2009)

For those who think they qualify, but are unsure of their skills, 
ETCP LAUNCHES WEB-BASED PRACTICE EXAMS.

Only $35 to take a fifty question practice exam in the comfort of one's home. Upon completion, pass or fail, one will have a better idea of where they stand.


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## gafftaper (Jul 21, 2009)

mstaylor said:


> I am an arena rigger and am working on getting my certification. I will probably get both my rigging and electrical certifications. I need to look at the types of questions on the electrical test, I'm an electrician and am very familar in arena type electrial situations but many times tests like this get into more theory than what we actually do.



As Derek pointed out practice exams are now available so getting a feel for the test is easy enough now. 

One thing I've heard is that the test isn't designed to trick you or be ridiculously complicated. It's there to find out if you really know your stuff. If you TRULY are qualified to take the test and have actually earned all the points, you shouldn't have that hard of a time passing the test.


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## Marko66 (Aug 11, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> One thing I've heard is that the test isn't designed to trick you or be ridiculously complicated. It's there to find out if you really know your stuff. If you TRULY are qualified to take the test and have actually earned all the points, you shouldn't have that hard of a time passing the test.



What I found, particularly in the Entertainment Electrician test, was the vast amount of material covered in the questions. Although I studied some subjects that I thought that I needed a refresher in, I found myself going back to real life experiences on jobs that I had done a few years back for many questions. Like in real life, it is helpful to trust your common sense. 

As someone who generally does not do well on tests, I agree that taking the test at the AMP testing center is helpful. It is quiet, the folks there helpful and used to stressed out people taking tests, and one gets the results instantly. For me, it would stress me out for the whole time if I took the test at USITT or LDI. 

Like it was mentioned before, only the folks at ESTA knew I was taking the test- ~ I would just show up for work with another certificate, suitable for framing. 

My 2 cents,

Mark O 
ETCP Rigger A/T
ETCP Entertainment Electrician


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## derekleffew (Aug 11, 2009)

Welcome, Mark! 

By my calculations, you're our fifth admitted Certified-Technician, first rigger in either category, and one of a handful of "triple threats" in the country. Stop by the *New Member Board* and start a thread introducing yourself.


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