# Main curtain fullness and "weight of fabric"



## JLNorthGA (Dec 27, 2011)

We need a new main curtain.

Obviously we will need something that has a reasonable degree of fullness (yes, I read the Wiki). What is best? I looked at the varying degrees of fullness and I know that we will need at least 50%. I think 100% fullness is a bit too much. What advantages would 75% fullness give us? Is it worth the extra expense?

I couldn't really find anything about fabric weight (or maybe I wasn't sure which terms to use in the search).

The weightier the fabric, the richer it would look - but I don't want to break the bank either. What is a reasonable weight? I don't think 13 oz. would look that good, but what about 16 oz.? Is going to 20-21 oz. worth the extra cost?


----------



## Bix (Dec 27, 2011)

I have done many curtains and will usually go with 100% fullness. I have tried 50% and the curtain (mainly a tall one) has a tendancy to flatten out near the bottom. 75% would probably be fine though.

As far as weight goes, I have found the biggest difference to be opacity. A 15 or 16oz fabric will usually be less opaque than a 20 or 25oz. A couple of years ago, I got a full stage 100% red velour drape in 8oz. fabric and ANY backlight we had up was clearly visible. I purchased the curtain to the same height as our stock drapes so I could hang a BOC behind the curtain on the same batten. If backlight is an issue, I would advise a 20oz or a 16oz that is specified as opaque.

Hope this helps!


----------



## Van (Dec 27, 2011)

I agree with Bix, 75% fullness will tend to give a much better look all the way down the curtain. < I'm assuming you are talking about a standard Traveller or 'chopper' Act Curtain. > Any good drapery company shouldn't be letting act curtains out their door without proper backing. An Act curtain wih two layers of backing is no unheard of, though it it canbe expemsive. These will often consist of : the curtain fabric, a black heavy gauze or extremely light basting material, and a lightweight muslin backing. If a curtain is properly backed light leeaks shouldn't be an issue, although the lighter-weight the fabric the more the possibility exists. 20 - 32 oz Velvet iIS worth the cost as it will not only help lock out light bu will contribute significantly to the life of the fabric and thus to the curtains.


----------



## derekleffew (Dec 27, 2011)

I agree with Van, although don't think I've ever seen a grand drape with two layers of lining. One layer of ~8-12 oz. muslin, canvas, or duvetyne flatsewn, should be sufficient. One tip although I believe you said before that this won't be a traveler; but guillotine only, order the curtain in two parts to allow for a page bow. (Also makes install and removal easier.) Provide a 2' faceback on both ends of each panel. Another tip, use only IFR materials, so that one never needs to worry about re-applying flame retardant.

Most of the drape manufacturers (Rose Brand, Sew What? to name two) have a sort of widget on their webpage to allow for easy quote/specification process. Filling this out will aid in choosing your options. For a main rag, I wouldn't go with less than 75% fullness. Your audience is going to be staring at this curtain for up to 30 minutes with little else to do.

Do you have a color in mind? The easy route is to have the main match your theatre seats' upholstery. See also the thread https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/ugliest-main-curtain.19281 .

-----

JLNorthGA said:


> ...a reasonable degree of fullness (yes, I read the Wiki). ...


Praise be to the great body of knowledge that is the wiki.


----------



## JLNorthGA (Dec 27, 2011)

derekleffew said:


> I agree with Van, although don't think I've ever seen a grand drape with two layers of lining. One layer of ~8-12 oz. muslin, canvas, or duvetyne flatsewn, should be sufficient. One tip although I believe you said before that this won't be a traveler; but guillotine only, order the curtain in two parts to allow for a page bow. (Also makes install and removal easier.) Provide a 2' faceback on both ends of each panel. Another tip, use only IFR materials, so that one never needs to worry about re-applying flame retardant.
> 
> Most of the drape manufacturers (Rose Brand, Sew What? to name two) have a sort of widget on their webpage to allow for easy quote/specification process. Filling this out will aid in choosing your options. For a main rag, I wouldn't go with less than 75% fullness. Your audience is going to be staring at this curtain for up to 30 minutes with little else to do.
> 
> Do you have a color in mind? The easy route is to have the main match your theatre seats' upholstery. See also the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...ty-operations/19281-ugliest-main-curtain.html .


 
Getting quotes on two panels (16.5' W x 17' H). Figuring on 1.5-2' overlap in center and 1' overlapping the edge of the proscenium. We don't have any windows or lighting in the back. I've got quotes for 50%, I'll get quotes for 75%. While enough money may be available for 50%, I'm not sure about 75%. Turns out the original electrical work didn't have a large enough neutral wire. Will have to see how much the electrical upgrade is going to cost.


----------



## MPowers (Dec 27, 2011)

Curtains: Several points here.
About 90% of the curtain projects we bid on are spec'd by the architect as Un-lined. this is because of a mixture of economics and the fact that most act curtains do not need a lining if the correct fabric and fullness are chosen in the first place. 

The purposes of a lining are to provide complete opacity from back light and to provide mechanical protection from injury from scenery, lights and talent. A lining will also reduce, but not eliminate, the amount of "wind billow" from air currents from HVAC or talent and crew moving behind the curtain. Mechanical protection and resistance to wind or air motion are very valid reasons for a lining.

Opacity: If lighting instruments are showing through a main drape, than they must be in full view when the curtain is open. Move the lights. If you have unusually bright sources behind the curtain then perhaps a lining is in order. Changing to a heavier weight material is almost always less expensive than a lining. This is due to the fact that you have added 33% to 100% additional fabric (even if it is a cheaper fabric, it adds up) and almost doubled the labor costs of sewing. The reason for the varying % of additional fabric is that a lining is sewn without fullness and is actually only sewn directly to the main curtain along the webbing. For a 100% full curtain a lining would be an additional 33.3% fabric, for a flat sewn curtain (many legs and borders) it would be 100% additional. A lining is attached by tabs sewn at intervals into the seams and loose along the bottom. 

Now to the case at hand. The curtain for the OP is a Guillotine operated front curtain, approximately 17'H x 34' wide. Because of the guillotine action, a lining is a poor choice. When descending, the lining will tend to catch air, causing both the main and the lining billow, up and down stage. 

Even though it "could" be a single panel, I would advise two panels as that would allow a speaker, announcer or talent to be "paged" through the center without having to raise the entire curtain. It also allows for the future possibility of adding a track to the main pipe and using the same curtain. 

Fullness: The single most common fullness spec'd by architects and found in medium and small stages (like the one in this case) across the country, is 50% fullness. That means for a curtain 34' wide, the panel will be 51' wide before pleating. 
i.e. 34' x 50% = 17'. 17' + 34' = 51' or 50% fullness. At curtain heights 20' or less, there is minimal "flattening" toward the bottom as the curtain hangs. Whether or not an additional 25% fullness will be worth the additional cost is simply up to the end user, but strictly IMHO, I do not believe so in this case. First, look at the curtain you have now. What is it's fulness? Is it OK or would it look better with more fullness? Want to see what it would look like with more fullness? Take a couple of hours on a dark weekend and untie 3 or 4 feet at one end and re-tie slightly bunched up to create "sort of" the effect of the greater fulness. Then, get a quote for both fullness's and decide for yourself.......Oh yeah, don't for get to tie it back before you leave! 

Now for the fabric: In a small community theatre, the odds of having the goods re-treated in 5 or even 10 years, are non-existent. So, an IFR, Inherently Flame Resistant, is the choice, hands down. What weight of fabric? Fabric weight is measured by the weight in ounces of 1 running yard of the material on the bolt, NOT by the square yard, so it can be slightly misleading. Example a 13 oz Plateau has a tad bit more thickness and pile than 15oz encore because the encore comes in a slighter wider width. If you are one of the few that keeps purchase and product data, check that for the original fabric weight and/or fullness. If not, see if you can find a label with fabric weight or the original supplier/manufacturer, contact them to see if they still have records. If you can find any information on the existing goods, look at it, decide if it is adequate, more than enough or not enough.

Color??? Probably the most controversial issue for any group. If you have a committee of 3 there will be at least 5 choices, and the peanut gallery will all have their own thoughts. Schools often have a big advantage here--- Go with the school colors! Some obvious thoughts, match or contrast the: 1. seats 2. walls 3. Proscenium 4. Carpet 6. Favorite color of the daughter who's dad is donating the $$ for the curtain. I think I've made my point, color is purely subjective. No one here can really help you. If you get involved in having to choose, we CAN pray for you.

In any case, for this use, my suggestion would be to go with at least a 20oz Crescent but a 24 oz Charisma would be, IMHO, my first choice. Hope this helps.


----------



## JLNorthGA (Dec 28, 2011)

MPowers said:


> Curtains: Several points here.
> About 90% of the curtain projects we bid on are spec'd by the architect as Un-lined. this is because of a mixture of economics and the fact that most act curtains do not need a lining if the correct fabric and fullness are chosen in the first place.



Many thanks, excellent explanations.


----------



## tprewitt (Dec 28, 2011)

As typical, Michael pretty well nailed it. 

We too typically recommend 75% fullness for nearly all front drapes regardless of height or size of venue. It just looks better. On a 9' elementary school curtain the added cost is negligible, with the OP's drape it will add a little but not significantly and be well worth it. At 100% you start losing "bang for the buck."

There is also almost no reason to use cotton velours anymore. Cost between cotton and the IFR synthetics is minimal and the synthetics are much more opaque, weigh less, more durable, and most of the time can be cleaned with a damp sponge (which will destroy a cotton drape), etc. etc. Both Crescent or Charisma are excellent choices. Encore 22 is a little less expensive and also makes a nice drape but doesn't have the thick nap.

Lining is seldom ever necessary with synthetic fabrics and is often not appropriate. The OP's drape sounds like one that lining is probably not appropriate. The lining would need to be sewn into the bottom hem which causes problems with dimensional changes that will naturally occur in the fabrics or it would have to have air relief vents at the top which don't work very well. It's going to add weight to the curtain and in this case lighter is better. I'm not sure about the comment about the neutral wire, but if you had a heavy cotton drape that was lined and go to an unlined synthetic drape the loss of weight might make the neutral problem easier to solve. (e.g. by reducing motor size, reducing breaker size, etc. - don't know without more information.)

Michael is correct about fabric weight and width, but to make it worse the weight has very little to do with the actual mass of the fabric. Advertised weights are more about a subjective look and feel of a fabric than the reading on a set of scales. Generally, heavier fabrics will be more opaque, fuller/thicker, etc than lighter ones but only when compared to fabrics in the same product line with the same fiber type. Comparing fabrics by weight alone or from one mill to the next by advertised weight means nothing and any similarities will be purely coincidental. e.g. Milliken's Encore 15 oz & KM's Princess 15 oz both come on rolls and that's about where the similarities end. 

The idea is to chose the lightest fabric (with regard to actual mass, not advertised ounce weight) that fulfills the project needs for opacity, nap, clean-ability, durability, fire resistance, color selection, etc. I don't want to shamelessly plug our website but there is a ton of information on all of these fabrics there, bellatex.com.


----------

