# Scenic Winches



## cbrandt (Jun 28, 2018)

Anyone out there had much experience with scenic winches? I have an art project installation coming up that they might be useful for, and I'm looking for options. I've dug up a few options from memory and research, but I'd love if I could get some insight from people who have installed and used them.

https://www.kinetic-lights.com/products/winches/winch-ac/

http://www.taittowers.com/tait-products/

https://www.rosebrand.com/product3861/Wahlberg-Winch-10-LX.aspx?cid=761&idx=1&tid=1&info=DMX+Winches

I'd be using them to fly some sort of linear LED. I'm less concerned about weight, and more about reliability and smooth operation. And cost, of course!


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## danTt (Jun 28, 2018)

How fast, how heavy, how close to people?


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## cbrandt (Jun 28, 2018)

Variable speed, but not terribly fast. I can't imagine I'd need faster than 16 fpm or so. Design is undetermined, but fixtures would hang from two points and not exceed 25 lbs. It would be above people.


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## porkchop (Jun 28, 2018)

At Beckhoff technology day they where very proud of a Kinetic Rain installation they did in the Changi airport. They have drive integrated motors that help fit the space requirement of a large install like this and also have the control solution from their PLC side. Might be work a look. I haven't worked a ton with Beckhoff motion products, but I have had no problems with their control lines.

I won't beat up Wahlberg too much as there's a reasonably recent thread that goes over it's peculiarities in depth, but I would try to stay away from them. Especially for an art installation where it is unlikely that a trained technician will be there are all times.


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## danTt (Jun 28, 2018)

I would probably take a look at Conners. I don't trust DMX for hoisting (especially over people!) and Tait is going to be impressivly expensive. Conners (especially with their rental options) might be a good middle ground


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## josh88 (Jun 29, 2018)

danTt said:


> I would probably take a look at Conners. I don't trust DMX for hoisting (especially over people!) and Tait is going to be impressivly expensive. Conners (especially with their rental options) might be a good middle ground


Creative Conors? I think we've got someone from there on the booth, Colin if I recall. I've worked with their turntables and some of the gear we made for them. They're packages these days are real impressive and nicely self contained units.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Jun 29, 2018)

Will the load be overheads? That's key.


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## danTt (Jun 29, 2018)

josh88 said:


> Creative Conors? I think we've got someone from there on the booth, Colin if I recall. I've worked with their turntables and some of the gear we made for them. They're packages these days are real impressive and nicely self contained units.


Yeah--- thinking of http://creativeconners.com/products/shop-a-la-carte/machinery/spotline-practical specifically.


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## cbrandt (Jun 29, 2018)

This would definitely be an overhead application. We're still brainstorming ideas, so I don't even have a design goal yet. I'm just trying to get a handle on options and pricing before I try to take this idea and run with it.

What seems to be the price range on these kinds of devices?

I was envisioning something a bit less dense than the Changi project. That style of movement, but with linear fixtures instead of droplets.


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## soundman (Jun 29, 2018)

Tait might not be as expensive as you think, they built over 1,000 nanos for the Chili Peppers and now are looking to get them on other projects. What quantity are you after? 10-50 10-250 or over 250? The nanos will send 4 channels of 24V PWM dimming down the ribbon so if you use 2 per fixture you could have 8 circuits of 24V. 

Do the fixtures stay flat for the length of travel or will they need to tilt?


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## cbrandt (Jun 29, 2018)

Quantity would be entirely pricing based, since we haven't done our design yet. Right now we're brainstorming and pitching ideas. I need to know how far I can push my budget, to know how big to design. I'd love 100 hoists, but I think it is probably more in the realm of 50-75. I was envisioning tilting fixtures in my first design, but that could easily be modified.


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## PeterV (Jun 29, 2018)

I always hesitate to chime in on conversations that I have a commercial interest in because I don't want to be all sale-y (even though that's mygig ). But this is right up my alley and our name has been thrown in the mix.

What you're describing definitely sounds like our (Creative Conners') Spotline Practical. It is suitable for overhead lifting, does *not *utilize DMX, and are available for purchase or rental depending on your situation. We'd need to talk through your specifics but it may be a good fit. The weight capacity is 15 lbs, so we'd need to dig into what exactly you're flying to see what we could do. It's variable speed (up to 4ft per sec) and has all the safety bits and pieces needed for your application.

You can see the purchase price on our website linked in another comment above. Depending on the quantity you'd need or if you wanted to explore rental options it's worth an off-line phone conversation. Give us a shout at 401-289-2942 ext 103 for me (Pete) or 109 (for Nicole) to talk this through. If nothing else we might be able to give you some insight in alternative solutions even if they are from other vendors.

That the end of my spiel. Whatever solution you find I'd love to see the final installation when it's all done.


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## gafftapegreenia (Jun 29, 2018)

All i have to say is that i was scrolling and saw “Scenic Wenches”


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## RonHebbard (Jun 29, 2018)

gafftapegreenia said:


> All i have to say is that i was scrolling and saw “*Scenic Wenches*”


 @gafftapegreenia Now the *big* question; were they DMX controllable and assignable to any_ *port*_ / address? 
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard


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## josh88 (Jun 29, 2018)

danTt said:


> Yeah--- thinking of http://creativeconners.com/products/shop-a-la-carte/machinery/spotline-practical specifically.


The Spotline is a great system and the software, (Spikemark) is powerful program


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## JohnD (Jun 29, 2018)

gafftapegreenia said:


> All i have to say is that i was scrolling and saw “Scenic Wenches”


If it were "Scenic Wenches" it would probably be related to @tdtastic 's Renfaircrap.com concept.
I admit I thought the same thing when I first saw this post.


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## tdtastic (Jul 2, 2018)

IMG_1453



__ tdtastic
__ Jul 2, 2018






I know this is no help to the original query, but in the interest of making @JohnD giggle I couldn't resist. The boss said save as much money when possible this summer, and since our real winches are tied up in a rental, we made a free one for our small revolving 'furniture flipper.' Yes, that is an old car rim. Yes, it is ghetto AF. But it WORKS.


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## danTt (Jul 3, 2018)

josh88 said:


> The Spotline is a great system and the software, (Spikemark) is powerful program


I will say that the realm of 75-100 hoists probably makes tait/navigator a better world to start in, assuming that with that many hoists you'll be looking for some syncronization/effects/etc that conners doesn't focus on.


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