# Alec Baldwin involved in accidental shooting death on set of "Rust"



## gafftaper (Oct 21, 2021)

Rumors are that Alec Baldwin, was using a prop gun while filming "Rust". Somehow, the Director of Photography Halyna Hutchins was shot and killed and the film's Director Joel Souza was hospitalized with injuries. 








Sheriff's office: Alec Baldwin discharged prop gun that killed crew member, wounded director

Baldwin is one of the film's star actors and producers. He went to the sheriff's office willingly and provided a statement to investigators, sheriff's office spokesman Juan Ríos said.



www.santafenewmexican.com


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## techieman33 (Oct 22, 2021)

The link isn't working, looks like a problem with the website. Here's a link to the story on Reuters.


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## MrsFooter (Oct 22, 2021)

Going to be very interesting to watch this unfold. There's a reason these incidents only happen once a decade or so, so for one to take place, there has to have been human error on a catastrophic level and committed by multiple parties.


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## TimMc (Oct 22, 2021)

With a nod to Warren Zevon - Lawyers and money will be required once the gun was involved.

My condolences to the family, friends and colleagues of Ms Hutchins, and my hopes for a full and speedy recovery for Mr Souza.


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## JD (Oct 22, 2021)

Very strange indeed. Although a blank can be lethal if fired at very close range, to hear that a second person was also injured is something I have never heard of. The only thing that comes to mind is if the prop gun fragmented when fired. Very sad.


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## gafftapegreenia (Oct 22, 2021)

There’s a lot of speculations and word of mouth in the rumour mill right now. Suffice to say, I’m not entirely sure how “prop” the firearm was exactly.


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## gafftaper (Oct 22, 2021)

Going back to Brandon Lee's death they had been filming closeup shots of the camera looking down the barrel of the gun. They put dummy bullets into the gun that would look real in the revolver chamber, but had no charge in the back so they couldn't actually fire. Then they switched to blanks to film the next scene where they actually fired the gun. Somehow one of the dummy bullets got jammed in the gun, broke off, and they put a blank charge in behind that bullet. They were filming late at night. They were tired. They took two "safe things" and accidentally reassembled them into a dangerous thing. 

I'm not speculating that is what happened yesterday. But I just get vibes that we will end up with a similar tragic accident where people thought they were doing things the safe and correct way, then something weird happened that their safety protocols didn't address.


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## Footer (Oct 22, 2021)

Two very interesting stories about this.... 








'Rust' crew describes on-set gun safety issues and misfires days before fatal shooting

At least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to production managers about gun safety on the set.



www.latimes.com





and https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/10/22/us/alec-baldwin-shooting-movie-set

This is going to be interesting to watch play out, and the union issues along with the IA contract negotiations is just making everything even weirder.


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## What Rigger? (Oct 23, 2021)

Gawd, it just seems to get worse by the hour. 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/24-old-head-armorer-alec-122916840.html

And the podcast episode in question:


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## ruinexplorer (Oct 23, 2021)

Others are leading change. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/rookie-bans-live-guns-on-set-1235035568/


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## Jay Ashworth (Oct 25, 2021)

This incident is what our British cousins would call a dog's breakfast, involving union hands quitting due to sloppy gun discipline and being ignored about it (by the 1AD, I gather, who by all accounts is a bastard), and non-union replacements, yada yada yada...

There are, now, several days later, a couple good roll-up stories with all the current facts; I'll see if I can find the one I most recently posted.


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## FMEng (Oct 26, 2021)

The latest, from unconfirmed sources, is that various people were using the gun for target practice. I speculate that someone probably brought the gun back with real ammo left in it, and the gun was grabbed by the first assistant director without being checked by the armorer. The 24 year old armorer wouldn't be likely to stand up to the 1AD about skipping procedures, especially when he was already yelling at other crew members. I'm no expert, but it seems like there were multiple, ongoing failures allowed to continue, making the accident almost inevitable.


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## TimMc (Oct 26, 2021)

The hits just keep on coming!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/10/25/alec-baldwin-rust-search-warrant/










Detectives Find Loose, Boxed Ammo In Fanny Pack On 'Rust' Set

Scattered ammunition raises new questions about safety on the movie set where cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed with a prop gun.



www.huffpost.com





Edit PS:

One more for good measure. Bad things come in threes, right?







Veteran prop master turned down 'Rust' film: 'An accident waiting to happen'

LOS ANGELES — Neal W. Zoromski has spent three decades in Hollywood, working on movies...



www.sfgate.com


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## ruinexplorer (Oct 26, 2021)

Watching Trevor Noah last night, it was reported that they were live rounds, not blanks. 
Target practice, really? What happened to not touching the props? So many things wrong here.


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## Footer (Oct 26, 2021)

FMEng said:


> The latest, from unconfirmed sources, is that various people were using the gun for target practice. I speculate that someone probably brought the gun back with real ammo left in it, and the gun was grabbed by the first assistant director without being checked by the armorer. The 24 year old armorer wouldn't be likely to stand up to the 1AD about skipping procedures, especially when he was already yelling at other crew members. I'm no expert, but it seems like there were multiple, ongoing failures allowed to continue, making the accident almost inevitable.


crap. Thats bleeping crazy. I guess now if you are going to run live fire guns you now have to fully secure the set and airport style security the entrances. That's insane.


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## TimMc (Oct 26, 2021)

In another post I alluded to Warren Zevon's song "Lawyers, Guns and Money". The gun part has been covered. Cue the lawyers and money:








Potential legal woes mount after the 'Rust' shooting tragedy

Producers on the film, including star Alec Baldwin, might be civilly or criminally liable in the accidental discharge of a live round that killed the cinematographer.



www.npr.org


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## MrsFooter (Oct 27, 2021)

Footer said:


> crap. Thats bleeping crazy. I guess now if you are going to run live fire guns you now have to fully secure the set and airport style security the entrances. That's insane.


I mean, or just, ya know...don't use guns.


FMEng said:


> The latest, from unconfirmed sources, is that various people were using the gun for target practice. I speculate that someone probably brought the gun back with real ammo left in it, and the gun was grabbed by the first assistant director without being checked by the armorer. The 24 year old armorer wouldn't be likely to stand up to the 1AD about skipping procedures, especially when he was already yelling at other crew members. I'm no expert, but it seems like there were multiple, ongoing failures allowed to continue, making the accident almost inevitable.


Also, reason 485k for why toxic working environments where management feels entitled to s*hit on people need to go. I know that I personally let some slightly sketchy things slide in my youth because I didn't feel that I would be supported by management if I tried to tell road co no. I was lucky in that nothing went wrong; the woman working as armorer that day was not.

I'm also wondering, as I sit here drinking my coffee and stalling on labeling breakouts, if this incident doesn't invite a re-examination of the resistance to admitting you don't know what you're doing that can be pervasive in this industry. @Footer and I have long held the credence that the key to success in this industry is to convince everyone around you that you know what you're doing...and then figure out how to do it before they realize you don't. But that philosophy also invites the connotation that admitting you don't know something isn't acceptable, and that is also starting to feel really toxic. What if the armorer had felt empowered to say, "I don't feel experienced enough to take on this job"? (I realize that there's also the issue where when you're young and beginning in the industry, gigs are hard to come by and you may not be in a financial situation to turn down a job. Another problem for another cup of coffee.) What if the "fake it till you make it" doctrine is putting people in situations where they don't feel safe asking for help or guidance, which in turn, puts the safety of others at risk?

If you'll excuse me, I have some personal beliefs to re-examine. And some breakouts to label.


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## cbrandt (Oct 27, 2021)

MrsFooter said:


> What if the "fake it till you make it" doctrine is putting people in situations where they don't feel safe asking for help or guidance, which in turn, puts the safety of others at risk?



I've long wondered why our industry has been so against any sort of official certification system. There are many positions and responsibilities with very well defined industry standards. Most importantly with life safety critical items that rely completely on the responsible person's judgement.


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## TimMc (Oct 27, 2021)

cbrandt said:


> I've long wondered why our industry has been so against any sort of official certification system. There are many positions and responsibilities with very well defined industry standards. Most importantly with life safety critical items that rely completely on the responsible person's judgement.


Because certification is a threat to those already in senior positions... except for those who design or participate in the certification process. It would be very embarrassing for established folks to fail a cert test.


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## cbrandt (Oct 27, 2021)

But wouldn't that tell us something extremely important if they did? (I say quite facetiously)


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## TimMc (Oct 27, 2021)

cbrandt said:


> But wouldn't that tell us something extremely important if they did? (I say quite facetiously)


Possibly. It might weed out some bullshit artists but would also penalize folks whose most recent tests involve doctors and bodily fluids rather that calculations and regulations. Hell, the hardest test I've taken in years is at the optometrist... Some "test anxiety" would be present, I'm sure. It would be embarrassing to forget how to work formulae that are part of our automated or app-based work flows and flunk a test.

That said, certification is something viewed with favor by insurers and regulatory bodies. Anyone on the fence about taking training or just sitting for tests should keep that in mind. In some locations certifications are already required for certain crafts; it's a matter of fairly short time before requirements arrive in places they do not currently exist.


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## MPowers (Oct 27, 2021)

Just a brief update as of 11:30am CDT, 10/27/21. In a 45 minute debriefing with both the local police and prosecutors, aired on CNN, the following information was given:
A lead projectile was recovered from the shoulder of Joel Souza, the wounded film maker. It is assumed at this time it is the same projectile that killed Halyna Hutchins.
Approximately 500 rounds of ammunition have been removed from the set and placed in custody. The rounds are an unspecified mix of blank rounds, dummy rounds (rounds with a “bullet”, a cartridge case, a spent primer, and containing BBs or loose shot to create a rattle sound if shaken, to differentiate the round from a live round), and an undetermined number of suspected live rounds.
3 weapons were recovered, one from Mr.Baldwin, two from a weapons cart. The weapon recovered from Mr. Baldwin was a fully functional F. Lee Pietta Long Colt .45 revolver. The other two weapons were a .45 revolver, altered to accept only blank ammunition and a plastic/rubber dummy weapon. 
There have surfaced “Rumors” that some members of the crew had been engaged in “Plinking” (shooting at cans and bottles for fun) during off time earlier in the week and that the the weapon that fired the live round “may” have been involved in that activity. Investigation into the rumors is ongoing.

I won’t speculate at this time on exactly what went wrong and when and who might be at fault. What I will say, drawing on 50+ years of working as a gun wrangler/armorer/weapons manager (all different names for the same job), mostly for live stage productions but also for some film and broadcast work, is that MANY very obvious and blatant mistakes were made and it will be difficult if not impossible to narrow it down to any one action or person.

(If there’s a way, we should merge the two parallel threads following this incident.)


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## SteveB (Oct 27, 2021)

Certification is a bitch as its all at state level and with 50, hard to get passed without every legislative moron and his uncle deciding to add their own 2 cents. Hate to get political, but red states tend to want to leave things to the corporations to decide, where as a hard core blue state and city like NY have codes and rules up the ass.


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## MPowers (Oct 27, 2021)

SteveB said:


> Certification is a bitch as its all at state level and with 50, hard to get passed without every legislative moron and his uncle deciding to add their own 2 cents. Hate to get political, but red states tend to want to leave things to the corporations to decide, where as a hard core blue state and city like NY have codes and rules up the ass.


You are obviously referring to a different thread.


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## derekleffew (Oct 27, 2021)

MPowers said:


> You are obviously referring to a different thread.




MPowers said:


> (If there’s a way, we should merge the two parallel threads following this incident.)


CB Mods do have the power to merge threads, and often do so to prevent multiple threads on the same/similar topic(s). However, unless I'm somehow seriously impaired, the *only thread* I see on Control Booth regarding the topic is the one you are viewing, titled Alec Baldwin involved in accidental shooting death on set of "Rust" .


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## MPowers (Oct 27, 2021)

derekleffew said:


> CB Mods do have the power to merge threads, and often do so to prevent multiple threads on the same/similar topic(s). However, unless I'm somehow seriously impaired, the *only thread* I see on Control Booth regarding the topic is the one you are viewing, titled Alec Baldwin involved in accidental shooting death on set of "Rust" .


The other one is titled “Protocol for guns on a film set.”


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## FMEng (Oct 27, 2021)

MPowers said:


> You are obviously referring to a different thread.


See page 1 of this thread.


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## Catherder (Oct 28, 2021)

MPowers said:


> The other one is titled “Protocol for guns on a film set.”


That one is a specific ask from @gafftaper for someone who had worked as an armorer to talk to his high school class about gun safety protocols. Very much related to this thread, but a different topic IMO.


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## gafftaper (Oct 29, 2021)

So it all seems to be coming down to Hall the Assistant Director, Zachary the prop master, and Gutierrez-Reed the armorer. Gutierrez - Reed released a statement through her lawyer today saying she has been slandered, she did her best to keep the set safe, she has no idea how a live bullet got on set, she doesn't know anything about target practice rumors, the weapons were properly secured, and it's not her fault. 

So here comes the finger pointing phase. 








'Rust' armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed breaks her silence, blames producers for 'unsafe' set

Hannah Gutierrez-Reed, the armorer who oversaw the prop weapons used on the "Rust" set, has made her first public statements.



www.yahoo.com


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## Jay Ashworth (Nov 3, 2021)

Attorney and legal YouTuber Devin 'Legal Eagle' Stone has -- as is his wont -- waited to say something about this until there was enough actual information to have opinions about (though he does disclaim how much is yet to be learned), and here's that 30 minutes or so:


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## TimMc (Jan 14, 2022)

Next in the long line o' lawsuits...








Rust shooting: armourer sues guns and ammunition supplier

The woman who managed weapons on the film set where a gun carried by Alec Baldwin was accidentally discharged, killing Halyna Hutchins, has said boxes of dummy rounds contained live bullets



www.theguardian.com


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## gafftaper (Jan 18, 2022)

From everything I've read, this all comes down to four industry safety practices not being correctly followed: First, real ammo should never get onto a set. Second, the Armorer and the 1st AD both verify that the gun is clear, then both shake each dummy round to verify they are non-firing, and then they carefully load the gun together, verifying every step. Third, tight chain of custody of the gun must be maintained at all times. Fourth, a real gun should only be used when it's critical for filming a shot. Rubber replica guns should be used for rehearsing, camera setup work, and times when the gun is just casually in the scene (for example a cowboy walking around with a gun in the holster doesn't need to be real). If those four practices are always followed religiously, you can make a mistake in one area (for example a real bullet accidentally gets on set) and everyone would still be safe. 

Which takes me back to my own safety practices on the job. I don't deal with weapons, but I do deal with a fly system, rigging, electricity, working at heights, crowds, fire safety, etc... Where do you and I cut corners on safety? Where do we do things that we know are not up to industry standard safety practices? When do I say, "Yeah this isn't very safe but the show needs to go on and I can't take the time to do it the safe way?" Where do you and I cut corners that could potentially open up a pathway for tragedy to strike? What can I do today to make my theater a little safer?


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## MPowers (Jan 18, 2022)

You are absolutely correct. The largest single error in this incident was the broken chain of custody for both the weapon and the ammunition. 

In my mind, the second biggest error was the fact that the production company, most likely to cut costs, gave and expected Ms. Reed to perform two separate jobs at the same time. I feel that because of her relative youth and limited experience, both as an Armorer and in the entertainment industry, Ms. Reed felt sure she could do both jobs. Also, for those same reasons, Ms. Reed probably did not feel that she could refuse to do both jobs and that after she had agreed to take on both positions, she didn’t know how to say no. 

Of course there is much more to this story yet to be told. Whether or not we will ever know all the details is yet to be seen.


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## Jay Ashworth (Jan 19, 2022)

Tight chain of custody.

I don't even do that for a living, but if I did, the pistol would live *in a holster on my own belt*, and get handed to the actor before the shot, and handed back to me after cut. Ammo locked in a box at all times.

Didn't have the gravitas to say NO is the other thing, yes.

And, really, don't you want someone who's been a shooter as a hobby for 10 or 20 years doing this job?

Well, just like Sarah and location permits, this is another type of fail that won't happen again for 20 years or more.


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## TimMc (Jan 19, 2022)

Jay Ashworth said:


> Tight chain of custody.
> 
> I don't even do that for a living, but if I did, the pistol would live *in a holster on my own belt*, and get handed to the actor before the shot, and handed back to me after cut. Ammo locked in a box at all times.
> 
> ...



20 years? You give humans a far longer memory impact than I do. Outside of a handful of IATSE and Director's Guild of America folks, and the persons directly involved in Rust (and their families) I doubt most in our industry remembers this more than 5 or 6 years out. Interestingly I've encountered a number of folks in film/video production who've yet to give this attention at all, other than to say "yeah, I kind of think I heard something about that."


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## Jay Ashworth (Jan 19, 2022)

TimMc said:


> 20 years? You give humans a far longer memory impact than I do. Outside of a handful of IATSE and Director's Guild of America folks, and the persons directly involved in Rust (and their families) I doubt most in our industry remembers this more than 5 or 6 years out. Interestingly I've encountered a number of folks in film/video production who've yet to give this attention at all, other than to say "yeah, I kind of think I heard something about that."


Well, my appraisal is this:

1) It only really has to affect armorers (couple hundred people) and directors (a thousand, tops?)
2) Ok, maybe 10. Though people dying does have a greater impact than other outcomes.


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## gafftaper (Apr 21, 2022)

The New Mexico OSHA report is in.

Here's an official report summary.

My take:

Multiple people, in light of accidents earlier in filming, did not follow industry standards or the films own safety procedures. The propmaster did nothing about safety concerns. Upper management of the production was notified about safety concerns and did nothing. 1st AD and Safety Coordinator Dave Halls actually witnessed two accidental discharges and didn't do anything to address them. There were multiple people who had an opportunity to do their job correctly and follow safety standards and procedures but didn't. If just one person would have stood up and made sure the procedures were followed after seeing the system breaking down, there is a good chance that Halyna Hutchins would be alive today. So sad. 

There were implications early on that this was all due to the Armor's lack of experience. The report does not support that. On the contrary it shows that she did make some attempts to have more time devoted to weapon safety and those were ignored. You could argue that she didn't take a bold stand and you could argue that the production staff might have listened to her more if she had more experience, but she did attempt to make things safer and those efforts were ignored.

Lessons for us: Know and Follow all regulations, industry standards, and codes. In the end, the production staff of Rust was judged by New Mexico's OSHA based on how well they followed their own procedures and industry standards. The report points out multiple ways the shooting could have been prevented by simply following the procedures. This is a good lesson for all of us (regardless of if we are dealing with weapons or not) about how seriously we take and follow standards and safety procedures.


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## JimmyM (Apr 21, 2022)

gafftaper said:


> The New Mexico OSHA report is in.
> 
> Here's an official report summary.


Wow, that was a chilling read, so many red flags what could have prevented this mishap. This report is also incredibly easy to understand which is very helpful from an educational point of view.

To me it seems like one step to help prevent this happening again would to be not allow a split assignment for the armorer position, eg they are paid that rate and do that job so long as weapons are on the set during the production.


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## Jay Ashworth (Apr 24, 2022)

It is pretty easy for me to sit here and Monday Morning Quarterback the event, and I am in my late fifties, not my mid-20s. That said, it still seems to me like your move here is to go to the director or the producer and tell them "this is not going safely, and if you don't help me fix it right now I will quit and go directly to OSHA and land them on your head."

I suspect the audience here at Control Booth hews more to the 40s and 50s than the 20s end of that age range, but it probably would not be a bad idea for each of us to decide how we're going to handle that when it lands in our lap.


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## StradivariusBone (Apr 25, 2022)

It sounds like task saturation. The management should have recognized it and pumped the brakes. 

No live rounds on set would have obviously prevented it. One thing I found interesting in reading it was the lack of distinction between a "misfire" and an accidental or negligent discharge. None of the guns or the pyro seems to have failed to fire, but they were fired unintentionally either through carelessness or circumstances not anticipated.


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## gafftaper (Aug 13, 2022)

New report in says that the gun was tested and could not Accidentally fire without pulling the trigger as Baldwin claimed happened.


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## avkid (Aug 13, 2022)

gafftaper said:


> New report in says that the gun was tested and could not Accidentally fire without pulling the trigger as Baldwin claimed happened.


Did anyone really believe that he didn't pull it anyway?


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## ruinexplorer (Aug 15, 2022)

I can't stand it when people don't fess up to their mistakes. Was it an accidental shooting? I believe so. Was it preventable through common practice? Absolutely. Should there be consequences? Without a doubt. Lying just makes it worse and is shameful.


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## MNicolai (Aug 15, 2022)

ruinexplorer said:


> I can't stand it when people don't fess up to their mistakes. Was it an accidental shooting? I believe so. Was it preventable through common practice? Absolutely. Should there be consequences? Without a doubt. Lying just makes it worse and is shameful.


I think it's hard to prove it's lying. If you are an actor and don't believe the gun could possibly fire a live round and suddenly it does there could a fair bit of initial trauma that messes with your memory of what happened. "I didn't intend to kill that person" could morph into "I didn't pull the trigger" when you re-sort your mental rolodex of how things transpired.

It's also entirely possible he did lie, but I could just as easily see someone in his position 2nd and 3rd-guessing what they thought transpired and it's definitely more psychologically challenging to process that you were just at fault for unintentionally killing someone.


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## ruinexplorer (Aug 15, 2022)

Sure that is possible. Most people are apt to make something up to evade consequences. If everyone was completely honest, our justice system would be a lot different.


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## gafftaper (Aug 16, 2022)

I didn't buy "I didn't pull the trigger" as guns really don't just randomly go off. At the same time, I have a hard time calling him a liar. Given the faulty nature of human memory, there's a good chance he either does not remember what happened or his brain sort of rewrote that memory for his own mental protection. 

All of that said, I don't blame Baldwin the actor for what happened. He was trusting the proven safety system to work. However Baldwin the producer should have been aware about all of the issues we have read about with the budget, the track record of the AD on safety, the overworked props staff, and the inexperienced armorer. For those reasons, I do believe he should be held accountable.


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## seanandkate (Oct 6, 2022)

Alec Baldwin settles lawsuit with family of cinematographer killed on 'Rust' set​
Hmmm......


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## TimMc (Oct 6, 2022)

Settled as Alec Baldwin, PRODUCER. An essential happening in order to either finish Rust or close the books on it.


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## gafftaper (Oct 6, 2022)

Yeah. I'm not very comfortable with this. The family of Hilayna Hutchins have settled their lawsuit, her Husband is now a producer on the film, the director who also was shot is back on the project, and they are trying to pull everyone back in to finish shooting the film in January. I'm happy that the family is satisfied with the results, but to me it feels dirty. Like they are just turning a tragedy into a money maker. I won't be paying to see it.


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## cbrandt (Oct 6, 2022)

I can't imagine the tension walking onto that site. No matter what the family/husband say about being comfortable with the outcome and with production moving forward, it has got to feel awful being there. I HOPE that they'll take it slow and right after this.


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## MNicolai (Oct 6, 2022)

gafftaper said:


> Yeah. I'm not very comfortable with this. The family of Hilayna Hutchins have settled their lawsuit, her Husband is now a producer on the film, the director who also was shot is back on the project, and they are trying to pull everyone back in to finish shooting the film in January. I'm happy that the family is satisfied with the results, but to me it feels dirty. Like they are just turning a tragedy into a money maker. I won't be paying to see it.


Working theory I've heard is that by making her husband a producer he can pick up the royalties and assuming the movie actually makes any money, he may have some degree of income over time from the movie. Not sure how that will all actually play out but it seems like there's some Hollywood accounting going on here.


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## TheaterEd (Oct 7, 2022)

MNicolai said:


> Working theory I've heard is that by making her husband a producer he can pick up the royalties and assuming the movie actually makes any money, he may have some degree of income over time from the movie. Not sure how that will all actually play out but it seems like there's some Hollywood accounting going on here.


This was my interpretation as well. I have to imagine there is some kind of profit-sharing agreement in place.


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## TimMc (Nov 12, 2022)

Baldwin sues crew members:








Alec Baldwin sues Rust film staff involved in handling loaded gun

Actor says he wants to clear his name after 2021 on-set shooting that killed Halyna Hutchins



www.theguardian.com


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## norwoodtheatre (Nov 30, 2022)

TimMc said:


> Baldwin sues crew members:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's really trying to cover all his tracks and assume 0 liability in this case.


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