# Lighting Tech: Is It Too Late?



## dpitch40

I'm a second-year undergrad who just realized how dissatisfied he is with his math and csci majors. Back in high school I worked with the tech crew (mostly on lights) for one and a half years and had the time of my life; I still come back to help them with shows occasionally. Now I'm starting to weigh my options for switching to a future in tech theater as I'm realizing how little I love either of my majors compared to it. Unfortunately my college only offers one unified Theater Arts major for acting, directing, writing, and tech. I found that I could get this degree in my remaining two years, but I don't know how it would compare with the programs of schools people are recommending here, and I would have to completely change my college plans. I have a full ride scholarship and a lot of credits at my current school, so switching schools is a last-ditch option. Luckily I have next semester to think it over and discuss with advisors, but I stumbled across this site on Wikipedia and thought I would ask for advice here. What are my options at this point if I wanted to go into a career in lighting?


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## cprted

Given your circumstances (credits earned, scholarship, etc), I would stay where you are, get the theatre degree, then get out into the real world and start building up a little experience. Even though the program at your school doesn't have all the bells and whistles of a dedicated tech program, you'll still learn a lot and likely make contacts with local companies that will help you land your first gigs. Getting a background in acting, directing, and writing will only benefit you in the future even if you don't ever want to be an actor, director, or writer.

Having a degree in tech theatre isn't the be all and end all in this business. At present, 100% of my income is derived from working in theatre and my degree is in History ...


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## derekleffew

dpitch40, see the collaborative article: Getting a Job in the Industry. If you get all the way through to the end, follow the links and look at what some of the jobs offered are paying. If you're still not discouraged, take note of our saying (I think it's in the article): 
"If you can find any non-theatre profession that makes you happy, do that instead."

I would advise you to stay where you are, don't change majors, but take as many of the theatre classes as is practically possible. There are many in the industry who did not major in theatre in college, just as there are many theatre majors who are working in another profession.

Also investigate community, semi-pro, and professional theatre companies in your area. I believe there's a bunch in Minneapolis.http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/members/dpitch40.html


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## dpitch40

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't have time to read that article just now but I'll try and get to it today. Just thought I'd mention my school (University of Minnesota) and link to its theater program. Is grad school important/relevant to this?


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## Footer

If your getting a free education and want to do theatre... my 2 c's is to switch majors and stay at your current school. Your going to be ahead most people no matter what because you won't have the loans. Also, your school choice matters enough to get you into your first few gigs. After that, it won't come up again. At your school you will also network with your fellow students who will be able to get you work later in life. The value of that can not be understated. 

If you switch, your going to have a lot of catching up to do. Your going to have to work very hard the next few years. You need to work at a summerstock theatre every summer you have off. 

My wife does not have a degree in tech. She has a theatre degree and a minor in dance. She is now working full time as an electrician. It can be done, but she has fought really hard to get where she is.


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## ruinexplorer

Something you will need to ask yourself is where do you plan on being in five years. You want to be a lighting technician, but there are different skill sets you would want to look at. If you desire becoming a general lighting technician, your current program will be just fine, however, you probably will struggle more getting into a good paying job. If your tuition waiver is dependant on your major, then stay where you are and add in theater classes where they fit. If not, go ahead and switch majors, but make sure to supplement your training with electronics courses and possibly electrical theory from the engineering department.

I have known many people whose undergraduate degree is not in theater only to get their master's degree in a theatrical field. In my experience, a master's degree will benefit you in the educational market as well as some reperatory companies. If you work for a staging company, an AV company, or corporate theater, a masters degree will not make you stand out much more than someone without a degree. Those markets either rely heavily on previous work experience or no experience (where the pay really stinks). In a for-profit business, time is money and typical education rarely gives you the experience needed for that type of business. However, in the non-profit arena, they often need much more well rounded personnel who are able to fill in the areas where they cannot afford to hire staff. You will very likely be on salary and work your tail off for not a lot of pay.

The best advice that I can give you is to start applying for internships, work summer stock, and look for work in a road-house or a staging company. You will get more out of your education if you are applying what you learn immediately as well as picking the brains of your professors by experiences on the job. Try to avoid getting yourself into debt since the starting wage in this industry is much lower than what you need to pay off your loans. 

Most of us will tell you how much that we love what we do, but many of us would do it different given the chance because of the sacrifices that are required to work in this business. There are much more lucrative ways to make a living than in theater. The best paying jobs are usaully in administration, which often requires a master's in business arts. Good luck in your decision.


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## waynehoskins

Yep, stay where you are. Change majors if it suits you. I did my first year as a EE major and then switched to theatre after a semester break. I took a few engineering classes (as electives) while on the theatre track, and I really enjoyed them, and maybe I learned something new there too. I got my BFA in theatre design/production in six years, and I'm now four years into a career as a database administrator dealing with property tax data. I still do theatre on the side and really enjoy it. I also really enjoy the day job, though in hindsight I wish I had taken a few CSE courses too.

The more well-rounded you are (not just in theatre courses), the better off you are, both in this industry and overall. Knowledge of electronics, computer programming, and networking can directly help you in this field -- I do a fair share of troubleshooting in my other job (church tech guy) at the component level, and knowing even basic circuits really helps.

Most of the other theatre majors I knew in college make their living doing something that's not theatre. Some are in the live music biz, one is a house tech at a local venue, one works for an electronics distributor, but many do office work -- insurance, whatever pays. I've had very few real paying gigs with my degree, but the real job pays, and it even pays regularly. 

The more versatile you are, both in skillset, coursework, and degree, you are, the better off you are.


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## TimmyP1955

Especially given that you have a full ride, I'd stay where you are, and change your major(s) if you wish. Once you have your degree(s), you either can change schools and work full time toward a Masters, or you can go to work and continue your education part time, which could be either to get your Masters, or just to "add ammo to your arsenal".


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## dpitch40

Thanks for the input, all. I'm currently thinking of dropping my math major (which I'm becoming dissatisfied with anyway) and turning it into a minor so I can take some tech theater classes that could help, while keeping my CSci major.


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## soundlight

dpitch40 said:


> Thanks for the input, all. I'm currently thinking of dropping my math major (which I'm becoming dissatisfied with anyway) and turning it into a minor so I can take some tech theater classes that could help, while keeping my CSci major.



Now that right there is a good idea. Definitely keep the CSCI major, it may come in handy in theatre or elsewhere.


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## dpitch40

Glad to see there's support for this idea. I'm going to talk it over with my advisor today. Speaking of keeping the CSci major, I'm thinking of changing my emphasis, as my current one (AI) won't be too applicable to tech theater unless theaters start extensively using robots or literally intelligent light fixtures or something. A different emphasis might help me in the theater while still keeping my options for other computer-related careers open. I'll ask my advisor about this also, but if anyone has opinions, I'll post all the possible emphases here.

Computer architecture
Artificial intelligence
Hardware
Computational biology
Databases
Graphics
Management of information systems
Network security
Networking
Programming
Software engineering
Theory
User interfaces


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## ruinexplorer

Networking is a big plus. Next I would look at software engineering, hardware, or information systems. The nice thing is that you are setting yourself up to be more than just a technician which will make you much more marketable as an employee.


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## dpitch40

Update: I'm now starting my third year. I dropped my math major a while back, and now I'm realizing that I would like to drop my CSci major. Unfortunately, there's nothing else I could get a degree in with my remaining time, so I'm kind of stuck. With the space freed up by not taking any more math, I'm taking all the tech theater courses I can: lighting technology/design, audio tech, audio engineering, and plenty of practicum. I'm pretty busy when combining that with the CSci courses I need for my degree. but I always look forward to my theater classes.

It was funny rereading that quote, "If you can find any non-theatre profession that makes you happy, do that instead." I haven't found any such profession. Today in my algorithms class the professor basically said we should be teaching ourselves the practicals of programming on our own, for fun. This clarified why I feel so much different from and disadvantaged compared to other CSci majors: programming "for fun" is incomprehensible to me. I hate programming. My software dev class is all about teaching us how to be good computer scientists in the workplace, and I cannot imagine myself working out the things I'm learning there, at all. I came to college with three prospective majors, and after two years I've realized I really don't like any of them. It's hard to admit, and if I could go back and study technical theater, I would. But anyway, I can't think of anything else I'd like to do that could make me close to as happy as working in a theater would.

So now I'm wondering what to do next. I ended up emphasizing in human-computer interaction, which I thought would be one of the more applicable ones outside of my major. There might be time to change this, but it would be dicey. Money is not an issue for me; I'm saving money during college instead of accumulating debt, and I plan on living extremely cheaply. I just want to spend my life doing something I love. I'd rather be an electrician grunt who gets crap pay than start out making $70,000 a year as a software developer or the like.

Sorry if that was a long rant. It means a lot to me to have a place to get that off my chest. Anyway, with all that said, is there anything else I can be doing right now? Since I won't really have a degree to show any possible employers, I figure I should get as much experience as I can. Currently in my practicum class (with is 100% experience) I've been doing a four-hour lab each week; lights last semester, and now scenes. I'm hoping to get a running position at some point, but it's really schedule-intensive and I don't know if it will work. I'll take the EE suggestion into account and see if I can fit that in somewhere.


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## ruinexplorer

I wouldn't leave college without a degree. Even if it is something out of the field in which you want to get your job, you need to show that you don't quit. Many jobs out there require a BA degree, doesn't matter what major, just to show that you are "employable/trainable". Talk with your councelor at school since they will be able to better look at the courses that you have taken and how they could be applicable to another degree. You might be close enough that it would only take an extra semester or so if you change majors.


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## photoatdv

I know how you feel. I had several majors I wanted to do too, I fully came in with one and intended to add another and a major as soon as my college would allow. Now I'm in one (which I don't like) and can't figure out what I want to do. While I love lighting and tech, it's not what I want to major in.

({/rant warning} my school's theatre tech program is, well, interesting-- it caters to actors who kinda think design is neat. The few design/production classes focus almost entirely on unrealized designs. Most of the actual production work is done by a small group of student workers, who for the most part are not theatre students. I have worked with upper devision theatre tech students who haven't a clue how to do simple tasks like hang a light safely or use a cordless drill. Which frankly is bad because as much as it'd be great if they were all going to be Lighting Designers, 99.99% of them will work as a hand or in a shop out of college-- definitely not do exclusively design! {/rant ended}). 

So yeah theres lots of topics and classes I find interesting (both in tech/theatre and in many other areas), but none that even come close to a cohesive major.


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## gafftaper

This thread has given you a lot of good advice. They key remains get a degree, get as much theater training as you can. Then work your butt off doing ANYTHING. No job is beneath you and every job is the most important job you have ever had. Impress people with your hard work and skills and your college degree will quickly become a thing of the past that no one asks about. With the rapid progress towards everything in theaters being networked, your Computer Science background will become far more valuable than you ever thought down the road. The key now is to work. You should seriously consider if you want to stay in Minnesota or move to Vegas/LA/Chicago/NY where you will find more opportunities.


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## michaelburgoyne

> You should seriously consider if you want to stay in Minnesota or move to Vegas/LA/Chicago/NY where you will find more opportunities.



Not to sound defensive, but Minnesota offers some great opportunities for theatre designers and technicians. As of a few years ago the Twin Cities had a higher number of theatre seats per capita than any city in the US except NYC. Yes, Vegas / LA / Chicago / NY may have more producing companies, but they probably also have more competition for those jobs and a higher cost of living. There's nothing wrong with getting started in a familiar city and gaining some experience and confidence before making the move to a larger market. 

I know that the lighting faculty and others at the U of MN are very well connected with the local theatre and dance community and could help you identify some potential employers. As noted by others, you won't be judged by your degree but instead by your hard work and positive attitude. Take every job and contact seriously, prove your enthusiasm and reliability, and you'll stay busy.


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## dvsDave

Automation in Live Entertainment is getting more and more sophisticated. Having a degree majoring in the Computer Science Arts (I don't care what they label the major as, programming is as much art as science) would be really helpful. There are many jobs in the manufacturing side of live entertainment, perhaps you can dovetail your love of technical theatre into working on products used in this industry. Just a thought. BTW, how good are you at PHP?


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## dpitch40

I don't even know what PHP is. Apparently computer scientists are supposed to enjoy programming and teach themselves such things. Currently my plan is to get my CSci degree with as little programming as possible, then look for theater jobs. Kind of worried about what spending two more years earning a degree I know I won't use will do for my sanity...

Also, I'm starting to think about what I'll do next summer. One option is something theater-related; an internship? Any thoughts or tips on productive things I could do with a summer?


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## Pie4Weebl

dpitch40 said:


> Currently my plan is to get my CSci degree with as little programming as possible



Seriously? I mean seriously? Throwing away the opportunity to pick up a skill EVEN IF IT IS UNRELATED, is one of the poorest choices you can make. 

Its almost as bad as those kids in HS who though "Well I R do theatre tech so I dun done need english I r can skip classes tey are dumb!!!" And then are next to worthless in the workforce.

I know MULTIPLE people who got a CS degree and then used it to their advantage in lighting! I know that the year of Java I took make me a better moving light programmer!


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## dpitch40

Maybe I should draw a line between the small-scale programming I used to love and the large-scale programming I would be doing as a developer. I'm not sure which side programming IFs falls on. I've already had two years of Java.


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## stevie

I actually graduated in 2009 with a degree in BSIT. I learned Java and did my concentration in Network and Server Tech. Its actually quite useful in Lighting, since most boards are just computers.

My Story: I went a university that had NO technical theatre (or theatre in general) major. I learned by doing, start going to local small theatres and helping out, even if they don't pay you. You can gain so much experience just by doing and seeing. I started this way, and worked for about a year until I was paid for almost everything I did. Then, before I graduated I started looking for a Tech Theatre job, and found a small tour. Now I am full-time at a medium size theatre. 

The key is if you love it, you should just do it. But PLEASE finish college, it will come in handy.


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## dpitch40

Huh, that sounds sort of like my major: I'm focusing a lot on networking. And yeah, looking for ways to get theater experience since that counts. I found a local theater with lots of volunteer work, a perfect resume-builder. (Says their volunteer coordinator) I hope to work on stuff there next semester when I will hopefully have more time and go for summer internships at Minneapolis theaters.

I also discovered/remembered that to graduate with honors, I have to write a thesis pertaining to my major. It's not mandatory, but I like my school's honors program and would like to remain. Would a degree with honors be very helpful for getting a job? Since the thesis has to pertain to computer science (not just doing light design or something very theater-y), I'm thinking maybe something on DMX, but I'm still very open to other ideas. Really I'm not sure what all I could do.

Also, I was talking about plans and such with my mom tonight. She expressed a lot of concern about being able to find a job in a theater, at least in this economy. I think she was exaggerating a bit (there have to be some jobs in Minneapolis, even if they're contested), but realistically, is simply finding some kind of a job a big concern these days?


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## DuckJordan

dpitch40 said:


> Huh, that sounds sort of like my major: I'm focusing a lot on networking. And yeah, looking for ways to get theater experience since that counts. I found a local theater with lots of volunteer work, a perfect resume-builder. (Says their volunteer coordinator) I hope to work on stuff there next semester when I will hopefully have more time and go for summer internships at Minneapolis theaters.
> 
> I also discovered/remembered that to graduate with honors, I have to write a thesis pertaining to my major. It's not mandatory, but I like my school's honors program and would like to remain. Would a degree with honors be very helpful for getting a job? Since the thesis has to pertain to computer science (not just doing light design or something very theater-y), I'm thinking maybe something on DMX, but I'm still very open to other ideas. Really I'm not sure what all I could do.
> 
> Also, I was talking about plans and such with my mom tonight. She expressed a lot of concern about being able to find a job in a theater, at least in this economy. I think she was exaggerating a bit (there have to be some jobs in Minneapolis, even if they're contested), but realistically, is simply finding some kind of a job a big concern these days?



Depends really on what your looking at doing. Your going to be able to find more jobs in networking than you will in theater, Not saying you won't find one in theater, but your mother does have a point. Jobs in theater are very hard to find that are worth while, most of the time you will be working paycheck to paycheck and will have to run more than one job at a time just to be able to live.

You won't get rich doing theater so if that's your ultimate goal then don't go with theater for a career.


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## dpitch40

DuckJordan said:


> Depends really on what your looking at doing. Your going to be able to find more jobs in networking than you will in theater, Not saying you won't find one in theater, but your mother does have a point. Jobs in theater are very hard to find that are worth while, most of the time you will be working paycheck to paycheck and will have to run more than one job at a time just to be able to live.
> 
> You won't get rich doing theater so if that's your ultimate goal then don't go with theater for a career.


 
Don't worry, that definitely isn't my goal. I'd much rather do something I love than make a lot of money. (Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to do both) I know doing research in CSci won't hurt, but it's just hard to see how it would help me in the theater world at all.


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## DuckJordan

dpitch40 said:


> Don't worry, that definitely isn't my goal. I'd much rather do something I love than make a lot of money. (Sadly, I don't think I'll be able to do both) I know doing research in CSci won't hurt, but it's just hard to see how it would help me in the theater world at all.


 

I'm not too familiar with CSci, but having a strong knowledge in computers will definitely help you as far as how the industry seems to be going. More and more i see small computers running shows with out the use of too much "analog" devices. DMX itself is a completely digital signal. Understanding how computers talk to each other and how you can get them to interact better will ultimately be a major plus. Most of my tech classes at least here spend a lot of time just trying to get new students who never took any more advanced computer class than a simple class on typing and Microsoft software. 

A lot of what i know about at least in the lighting world is stemmed off the fact i took several programming courses just to learn the basics of how computers run. We've seen a recent push to get everything digitized in the industry and considering how far we've come in the last ten years is massive. I would expect newer technology to become more Computer tech required than the standard theater tech.


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## mixmaster

As I've been reading this thread, I've been doing a little mental math, and came up with approximately 1/4 of the people that I know who are regular, full-time, make-a- living-at-it employees of this industry have tech theater backgrounds. That means most of them have degrees from outside this industry. Electrical engineering seems to be very common, with Computer Science a close second. I know one guy who mixes at a club 4 nights week with a Pol-Sci major. Not sure how that one fits in, but anyway...
It was difficult to say the least for me to land a real gig that would support a family without a degree. It ended up, my experience as a subcontractor at my venue got me a job despite my lack of paperwork, when papered people wanted more than the job was willing to pay. Now I'm a house sound guy, taking classes to finish my BA. Ironically in the context of this discussion, my next set of classes are going to be computer science/networking classes. Any degree would have made getting this job much easier, and having a grasp of computer-human and computer networking interactions would save me hours of time on the phone with tech support...
FWIW
Matt


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