# Working overhead



## photoatdv (Dec 13, 2009)

So, in moving from the high school (and helping at the middle schools ect) to working in a road house (and occasionally other random professional gigs), I've noticed a very different approach to working overhead. In my high school if someone was loading/unloading weight the deck was cleared-- NO EXCEPTIONS. In the road house we keep right on working, usually with a warning to run if we hear heads. Also it's not terribly unusual to have riggers on/ in/ around large moving things. Same type thing at other professional shows, if it needs to be done we're expected to do it.

What's the procedure at your venue (s)? What's your take on this? I'm just curious what's done out there...

POLL: I can only put one poll per thread, so I put school, community, and professional with each option. You can select multiple ones if you work at multiple venues and they have different procedures.

Mods: I don't think this crosses the line, but if it does feel free to modify.

Students: These are professional riggers-- there is NO ONE at a school good enough to consider working under them (my little warning).


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## rochem (Dec 13, 2009)

On all professional shows, we never clear the deck. The head flyman stands at the rail the whole time, and there's usually people working near the rail as well. There's just no time to stop everything on deck to allow the loaders to throw weight. In community theatre shows, we clear the rail and usually half of the stage so work can still continue on the other side, however this rule isn't strictly enforced and is occasionally broken when necessary. At high school shows, we again clear to the centerline, but here it is strictly enforced. The only person allowed to be on that side is the flyman on the deck, who is monitoring the loading. Also since we only load one line at a time in the high school environment, there's less of a chance of something catching the flyman by surprise.


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## sstolnack (Dec 13, 2009)

at my high school, if someone is loading, we clear to about the centerline, every time. We don't especially have a head flyman, so there is absoluely no one under the bridge. Sometimes we also put a "do not enter" sign on a door that leads under the bridge when people are loading.


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## lieperjp (Dec 13, 2009)

I put usually clear the deck because I usually work with only one or two other people when no one else is in the space.


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## kiwitechgirl (Dec 13, 2009)

Head flyman always at the rail (deck level) when loading, but we don't clear the deck. It's normal for us to have more than one bar in at a time so while the loaders are throwing weight, we're already working on the next bar. No time to clear the deck every time weight is being thrown.


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## tjrobb (Dec 13, 2009)

Our theatre finally got a winch for our flies (no loading rail, WTF), so we'll see how that works out (will be in the space starting in Feb.). In general, we clear the area around where the person above is working (quadrant system, USR, DSR, etc.) until they are finished hanging or removing parts or take a break. Also, when taking items in or out at our temp space (all dead hung) our TD won't let anyone but himself actually move anything. Being volunteer, it makes liability easier and we know the person has training; thankfully we have had zero incidents so far, knock on wood.


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## Footer (Dec 13, 2009)

Go work an arena show where very heavy baskets are being lifted 75'-100' into the air over your head while your trying to do completely other things. Every heard/seen 60' of chain, a deck chain, and 30' of steel hit the ground at the same time? Its not a pretty thing. 

I have seen a weight dropped twice, both times it hit the mid rail and stopped. Its not a fun day. However, clearing the side of stage would help to avoid the skip factor, no where onstage is really safe when rigging is happening. Even with all precuations in place, bad things can occur. 

I was working an in of a country act in an arena over the summer and one of our riggers bumped a mercury vapor fixture and it fell to the deck. It nearly missed one of the downriggers. She did not even know what was going on. There was no way to forsee what was happening. 

The only real way to be safe when people are working overhead is be aware of your surroundings and watch you back.


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## mrtrudeau23 (Dec 14, 2009)

at my school we just clear the area 10 to 14 feet onstage from the fly rail and have someone keep everyone else out of this area. it's better than stopping work, and it's somewhat safer than letting people continue working directly under someone moving weights.


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## len (Dec 14, 2009)

In the one house I work at that has a fly system we never clear. 

When there's motors involved, the upriggers are usually hanging steel while cases are still coming in and they're usually done before the truss is positioned and bolted, so there's seldom any activity overhead.


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## mstaylor (Dec 15, 2009)

I do a lot of arena rigging and we only clear an area if we are in a bad spot or have to work a chain unsafetied. We have a drop ceiling in my home building and sometimes we will have to knock out a tile instead of pulling it and we will clear the area. It also causes us to pull the steel to the ceiling and build the bridles in the air. Makes it tougher and slower. 
One thing I was taught in a rigging school was if you hear a chain run, grab the guy next to you, he may not be a rigger.


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## rochem (Dec 15, 2009)

To the one person who voted "Professional: Always clear the deck", I'd be really interested to hear about your situation. What's your venue like, what kinds of shows do you generally put on, and how do outside companies react to being forced to clear the deck entirely for overhead work?


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## Chris15 (Dec 15, 2009)

Where's the option that says hard hats on whenever rigging is going on?


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## photoatdv (Dec 15, 2009)

I obviously didn't put that... but I know some good techs that probably would clear the deck if they were TDing. Yeah, they're kinda nuts, but then again if I'd seen some of the accidents they had, I might do the same.


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## marshmolly123 (Dec 15, 2009)

At my high school, we *always* call when there's an electric coming in, and make sure that no one is below it. When we reweight, we don't always clear the deck, but then again, we only leave it with around 100 pounds unbalanced at a time, maximum. If we're substantially reweighting (i.e. recently we had to change over our weights to wider ones, and had to unweight the electric quite a bit), we clear the deck completely.

If there's anyone below, we avoid working in the catwalk, just to avoid any injury if something were to drop. I don't know of anything ever dropping from our catwalk, but I'd rather not have someone below me get hit or killed.


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## renegadeblack (Dec 17, 2009)

Ive only worked in one venue with a fly system. There was no loading arbor, only at the deck so that wasn't much of an issue. Of course, we always called when a pipe was coming in. I've gotta say, when someone says, 4th electric coming in, you'd think that people would understand that means to move... but that clearly isnt the case. I'd have to go walk across the deck and push everyone out of the way.


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## Raktor (Dec 17, 2009)

Professional - warning lights come on, hard hats go on.

Semi-pro - warning lights come on, safety barriers go out, stage is essentially clear.


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## erosing (Dec 18, 2009)

Raktor said:


> Professional - warning lights come on, hard hats go on.
> 
> Semi-pro - warning lights come on, safety barriers go out, stage is essentially clear.



What type of warning lights? Do they stay on the whole time?


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## shiben (Dec 18, 2009)

Raktor said:


> Professional - warning lights come on, hard hats go on.
> 
> Semi-pro - warning lights come on, safety barriers go out, stage is essentially clear.



Im thinking the orange or red "alert" beacons like you see in movies with bunkers, and thinking this would be really, really cool. Maybe a klaxon too, while we are at it.


> I've gotta say, when someone says, 4th electric coming in, you'd think that people would understand that means to move... but that clearly isnt the case. I'd have to go walk across the deck and push everyone out of the way.



We were doing a music camp gig at a rigged house where the band went off and then the music theatre group came on, and of course the band shell had to go out, which required dropping them to the deck, folding them up, flying them out, all during a 5 min changeover. Final dress, the person making sure the kids didnt get onto the stage was gone for some reason, and they all flooded the deck while one of these things (this one weighed in at like 3/4 of a ton) was coming in rather quick, the guy on the rail got rope burn and might have left the deck a bit as a panicked radio call and some shouting to stop went out (shell was halfway off of trim, so was just starting to get decelerated, not sure why it was out of weight, all the electrics were)... child minder got a good talking to by the crew chief, and i think all the techs were cleaning out their pants after that one.


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## photoatdv (Dec 18, 2009)

Why was the guy on rail not wearing gloves? They save skin... and could even save someone's life in a situation like this...


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## Footer (Dec 18, 2009)

On the subject of warning lights...

At my summer home we have a double purchase system with 3 motorized lighting bridges and a motorized valence. The system does have a warning light when the motor controller is turned on. Nothing has to move, but the light is on. 

However.... they placed the light on the underside of the fly floor back in a corner. Its nearly hidden. If you were not looking for it... you would never see it. Amazing thought process in that install.... 

I worked in the venue for 2 months before I noticed it. 

I have seen a venue that installed rotating beacon lights on deck that are controlled from the loading rail. Whenever they are loading weight they go on. What people do when they are on is another thing....


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## shiben (Dec 19, 2009)

photoatdv said:


> Why was the guy on rail not wearing gloves? They save skin... and could even save someone's life in a situation like this...



The people running the venue are incredibly unprofessional, not even wearing closed toed shoes, much less safety toes, gloves were nowhere to be found, their crew was playing WoW instead of working most of the time... My department got called in to do things like Electrics and setting up chairs, and do all the work that would be in view of the audience.


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## rochem (Dec 19, 2009)

photoatdv said:


> Why was the guy on rail not wearing gloves? They save skin... and could even save someone's life in a situation like this...



The subject of wearing gloves while running the rail has been heavily debated here, and I've worked with people who feel that they have a stronger grip and more awareness of what's going on when not wearing gloves. See this thread.


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## mstaylor (Dec 19, 2009)

I have never worked a rail but I rig arenas so I pull weight all the time. I also framed houses for years. In neither profession do I wear gloves. I can let motor chains in as fast or faster than any of my riggers that wear gloves. I like to being able to feel what I am doing. The only thing I wear gloves for is if I am focusing and I can even do that if I need to.


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## renegadeblack (Dec 20, 2009)

I was fly-oping a show with a rig by Foy and they guy from Foy said as well that he doesn't like gloves because he can't feel what's going on as well. That being said, I wore gloves when I actually was flying the person.


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## photoatdv (Dec 20, 2009)

I always (unless I forget them or they're on the other side of the theatre) when flying because I feel that I'd have a smaller chance of losing an out of weight line. And especially when training people (I have seen them freak out and let go) I can easily grab the line without losing the skin on my hands. I also like being able to slow it gracefully by letting it slide through my hand...


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## themuzicman (Dec 21, 2009)

At work/college I call rail clear when loading weights and loose tool when I am working with non-tethered items overhead. Otherwise, it's business as usual. 

When I do work for community shows and events, I keep deck clear for their safety, but when people know what's up are below I just give calls and make sure I got some safe space.


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## Footer (Dec 21, 2009)

themuzicman said:


> loose tool when I am working with non-tethered items overhead.



That really should never be an issue.... It takes 30 seconds to attach a piece of tie line to any tool.


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## Anonymous067 (Dec 28, 2009)

Sorry if this thread has gone off subject from the first few posts, I only read the first few.

At the HS I work for, when we throw weight, nobody is allowed under the rail while we throw weight. Our TD is the only one allowed (legally) to throw weight, so he usually coordinates the whole operation.

Also-I think there may be more liability issues in a HS with minors than in professional theaters, plus in PRO theaters you don't have actors running around during load in. My theory is perhaps this is why the deck is usually cleared during HS tech and not professional. This isn't to say that accidents cannot happen anywhere however.


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## MNicolai (Dec 29, 2009)

Blah067 said:


> Sorry if this thread has gone off subject from the first few posts, I only read the first few.
> 
> At the HS I work for, when we throw weight, nobody is allowed under the rail while we throw weight. Our TD is the only one allowed (legally) to throw weight, so he usually coordinates the whole operation.
> 
> Also-I think there may be more liability issues in a HS with minors than in professional theaters, plus in PRO theaters you don't have actors running around during load in. My theory is perhaps this is why the deck is usually cleared during HS tech and not professional. This isn't to say that accidents cannot happen anywhere however.



One of the venues I work at it is connected to a high school. For school shows it's staffed mostly by semi-professionals, but roadhouse shows it's purely professionals and any students on staff are only allowed to be on staff because they are fully competent and capable to serve in the capacity they've been hired for.

There's always an underlying notion of danger when shlopping bricks because the previous school that the drama director taught at actually did have an accident where someone dropped a brick from the loading bridge and it practically paralyzed the tech director. He had been off stage when they started moving bricks and walked on just as the brick was dropped. The details of who was doing the weight transfer and if they made the proper calls or not for "HEADS!" are unknown to me. The brick hit the guy in the head and after many surgeries is now able to function, but he's maybe about 35% of the person he used to be.

A number of things have to go wrong for that situation to play out the way it did. The TD should have known people were transferring weight. Maybe he even did. The people on the bridge should have not dropped the brick in the first place, but even then they should have called out to anyone on the stage floor. At that point, anyone on the stage floor should have dived for cover (easier said than done when you've just walked on stage and don't necessarily if a line set has turned runaway or if a brick is falling out of the sky.

To make some good out of a terrible situation, I now have a story to tell students if they ever start acting oblivious to what's going on around them. That also gives the school a drama director who always understands and communicates the dangers of working in a professional-scale theatre to his students when he takes them in there.

I've been talking with the arts center manager there to install a warning light system when weight transfers and other rigging operations are taking place.


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## Javert (Dec 31, 2009)

At my high school, we don't officially have to clear the deck at all - only call a warning including line #, and tie off the line if it is significantly out-of-weight.

Unofficially, we tend to clear to centerline if throwing more than one or two bricks from the midrail, clear entire stage for any weight change at all done at grid height.


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## ruinexplorer (Jan 2, 2010)

Though we don't clear the deck, all crew are aware of any loading of weights being done and non-essential work near the rail is paused if possible. In the past few years, multiple venues that I have worked have required hard-hats whenever work is being done overhead and are a required tool for all theater/arena calls. In my current venue, since we have multiple levels that may be under overhead work, all our hard-hats are required to have safeties on them.


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## derekleffew (Jan 2, 2010)

ruinexplorer said:


> ... all our hard-hats are required to have safeties on them.


I'm not going to ask where one finds the integral safety attachment point for which to clip the safety onto.


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