# LSG Fog



## msr5752 (Sep 19, 2008)

Hey everyone. So, I have this bad habit of finding the best equipment and then seeing what I can afford. Usually I just figure out how to get the best. 

What other low lying fog machines are out there that are in the same class as the LSG machine?!?

I'm doing the light design for "Into The Woods" and I'm using a DF50 & hopefully a low lying fog machine. I plan to just break up the lighting over the stage & out in the house to pull in the audience into the show as well. I need tight control of the fog & need it to disappear between scenes when not needed. It will be used throughout the whole show.

I haven't used the LSG machine before but I have done research on it and I think it will be the best fit especially with the DMX control on it. 

Any ideas that I haven't thought of?!?

Thanks,

-Eric


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## gafftaper (Sep 19, 2008)

There are lot's of dry ice options for fog that will give you the same look as liquid CO2. The problem is they are not good at using over and over in the same show. You've got to reheat the water, reload the dry ice... it's not easy to just trigger over and over like the liquid CO2 machines. There are several manufacturers of liquid CO2 machines. I'm not an expert on that topic so I can't recommend which ones you should look at beyond Le Matrie (who makes all kinds of great fog products). I remember some of the CO2 foggers being kind of loud at LDI... this is something you should check out. 

Have you looked at all at using chemical fog with a chiller? There are a lot of ways to do this from home made ice chest chillers to fancy foggers with a built in electric refrigeration unit. The fog stays quite low at first. It kicks up as you walk through it, but if it's a quick dissipating fluid it vaporizes very soon so it won't kick up too bad. You'll probably have a layer of fog that is mostly 18"-24" thick instead of 6". But it's cheaper and even easier to work with than the liquid CO2. They are improving this chilled chemical technology a lot. I just found several products I've never seen before so it may be much better than it was just a few years ago. Get a demo!


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## msr5752 (Sep 19, 2008)

hummmmm ..... looks like I have some more homework to do. I hope I can make it to LDI this year but I might have shows going on. I will check on it.

the LDI rag should have some companies I think I will check that out as well.

"Woods" is an AEA show and I think some of the pit is union as well. It all can be good and bad. 

-Eric


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## jwl868 (Sep 19, 2008)

You might want to check the AEA website. They have a couple papers regarding the use of fog and haze.


Joe


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## len (Sep 19, 2008)

All the LSG that I have seen use a fogger, not a hazer to get the right kind of look. As for how fast they clear, I suppose you could try the quick dissipating fluid, etc.


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## zuixro (Sep 19, 2008)

gafftaper said:


> Have you looked at all at using chemical fog with a chiller? There are a lot of ways to do this from home made ice chest chillers to fancy foggers with a built in electric refrigeration unit. The fog stays quite low at first. It kicks up as you walk through it, but if it's a quick dissipating fluid it vaporizes very soon so it won't kick up too bad. You'll probably have a layer of fog that is mostly 18"-24" thick instead of 6". But it's cheaper and even easier to work with than the liquid CO2. They are improving this chilled chemical technology a lot. I just found several products I've never seen before so it may be much better than it was just a few years ago. Get a demo!



When my school did Into The Woods this year, I made two chillers out of foam ice chests, and used two 400w, $10 fog machines . It filled our stage pretty quickly, but the duty cycle was pretty bad (it's the nature of the machines). The fog does kick up very easily, but it dissipates quickly. At one time we had fog rolling off of the front of the stage into the orchestra pit.

To make the chillers, I just stapled window screen about half way up in the foam ice chest. Then cut a hole for the fog to come in, and a slot for the fog to go out. Just fill it up with ice, point the fog machine in, and hit the button. You may want to put a tray or something under it because as the ice melts, the water may overflow the bottom of the ice chest. At intermission I went and emptied them into a bucket, added a little more ice, and that was all it took. You can even pipe the fog around with dryer hose.


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## cdub260 (Sep 19, 2008)

We use a CITC Polar Controller, which is a ground fogger with a built in refrigeration unit. It's DMX controllable, but I have yet to use that feature. So far it's done a pretty good job when we've needed ground fog in the Pageant. Last October we used it for a haunted house, The Pageant of the Monsters, which ran for several hours a night. I can't remember if I replaced the one gallon fog bottle once or twice in the 4 night run, but I was impressed with how little fluid I went through. Really, the only drawback to using this type of unit is that you need two dedicated 15 amp circuits to power the thing.


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## BillESC (Sep 19, 2008)

You'll be hard pressed to find a better system than the LSG. For quick removal of the effect one or more Vortex fans will get the job done.

As for budget, for the cost of one LSG system you could purchase a half dozen PeaSoupers (dry ice fog machines,) so one is available when needed.


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## gafftaper (Sep 19, 2008)

BillESC said:


> As for budget, for the cost of one LSG system you could purchase a half dozen PeaSoupers (dry ice fog machines,) so one is available when needed.



Great point Bill. Also I don't know for sure but I would guess that getting the liquid CO2 is more complicated and more expensive than getting dry ice for the PeaSoupers. The look of CO2 vs Dry Ice is the same. You are paying for the convenience of the CO2 tank. 

Actually If you had two Peasoupers and a couple crew people you could do the whole thing. You just need a way to have some really hot water on stand bye (commercial coffee pots?), then you just have the crew dump the water tank, reload with hot water and reload the dry ice. If you had everything ready, you could easily reload a PeaSouper in 5 minutes. If I remember right you can get a PeaSouper for under $600. 

As for chillers do some searching and you'll find several discussions on home made chillers.


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## len (Sep 19, 2008)

If budget is a concern, you might look at the LSX by LeMaitre also. It typically rents in my area for about $100 per day. No compressed gas required, but the output is lower than a LSG.


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## icewolf08 (Sep 20, 2008)

You might also want to look into the Look Solutions Cryo-Fog machine. It does require liquid CO2 as a coolant, but it does a great effect. It can be fully DMX controlled, and best of all, Look offers free demos of their units.


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## Raktor (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm using the Antari 'Ice Machine' in my current show. 

As has been said... just a commercial version of the chemical fog through an ice chest.. but designed in a nicer way so that it has a place for the melted ice to go so that can be drained later, and doesn't make *too* much of a mess. And once it's warmed up, it's like any other smoke machine with the usability patterns.


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## TimMiller (Oct 7, 2008)

Call around many companies have the highend cold flow module (now made by rosco), it is a much smaller version of the LSG unit. Also the LSG unit, the fog fluid is very expensive (around 80 a gal) plus you are using Liquid nitrogen. The cold flow also runs off of Liquid nitrogen and does a very good job also.


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## bcronenwett (Jul 19, 2009)

gafftaper said:


> Great point Bill. Also I don't know for sure but I would guess that getting the liquid CO2 is more complicated and more expensive than getting dry ice for the PeaSoupers. The look of CO2 vs Dry Ice is the same. You are paying for the convenience of the CO2 tank.
> 
> Actually If you had two Peasoupers and a couple crew people you could do the whole thing. You just need a way to have some really hot water on stand bye (commercial coffee pots?), then you just have the crew dump the water tank, reload with hot water and reload the dry ice. If you had everything ready, you could easily reload a PeaSouper in 5 minutes. If I remember right you can get a PeaSouper for under $600.
> 
> As for chillers do some searching and you'll find several discussions on home made chillers.


 

Would purchasing fish tank heaters keep the water hot enough.... Maybe two for each?


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## philhaney (Jul 20, 2009)

bcronenwett said:


> Would purchasing fish tank heaters keep the water hot enough.... Maybe two for each?



Short version: No.

I used to work in a coral and fish store. The heaters are designed to keep the water at anywhere from 70 to 90 degrees, to mimic the temp. of the fish and coral's natural habitat.

For standby water for fog machines you will want your water much hotter than that. For that reason, I don't recommend them...


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## TimMiller (Jul 23, 2009)

We just bought an LSX, i cant wait to use it but the shipping company dropped it and broke the coolant line off of the condenser . Liquid CO2 is easy to come by, any welding supply place has tanks on hand. Airgas seems to have a place in every town, and they always have Liquid CO2 on hand.


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## Dalamar (Aug 12, 2009)

I know this thread is old, but I am quite surprised at reading that none of you have ever tried a MDG ICE FOG-Q. It's one of the better Low Lying Fog machines out there.


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