# Anyone attended CRAS?



## Blake

Hey guys I have been looking at sound schools and am hearing a lot of great reviews on http://www.audiorecordingschool.com/, has anybody here attended CRAS? And if so how did you like? Did it get you a decent job?


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## derekleffew

Blake, I'm assuming by CRAS you are referring to the link I provided?

Personally, and this may be just me, I'm leary of any educational institution who's website contains gramatical misteaks. See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/new-member-board/8599-cb-technical-forum-english-class.html .


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## Blake

Yes I am and thanks for that.


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## DuckJordan

I'm also leary of an educational institution that offers to teach how to create ringtones... Honestly, they probably wont teach you much. And the "education" they do offer will be not accurate to the industry. What may I ask are you wanting to learn at Uni?


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## JohnD

I would suggest that if you aren't already a member, sign up at both of these:
Pro Sound Web
Sound Forums Network - The Front Page
Then also ask this question there. That way, you are addressing a wider base of professionals.
To me, it rather looks like a mini FullSail, and I haven't heard great things from friends in the industry about their graduates, but that doesn't really mean much.


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## museav

Check the resources John linked, I think you will find that CRAS has a bit better reputation than Full Sail in terms of preparing students for jobs rather than just teaching how to use the tools (and it costs a lot less), however the general consensus on both seems to be that they are what you make of them.

The difference I've seen and heard others express regarding graduates of CRAS, Full Sail, SAE, etc. is that some graduates seem to view those as one component in becoming qualified to work in the industry while others seem to believe that simply attending makes them qualified for whatever job they want. The former often do well and might do well regardless of where they attended while the latter tend to add to the bad reputations.


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## LXPlot

derekleffew said:


> Blake, I'm assuming by CRAS you are referring to the link I provided?
> 
> Personally, and this may be just me, I'm leary of any educational institution who's website contains gramatical misteaks. See the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/new-member-board/8599-cb-technical-forum-english-class.html .



Please, please, please tell me you did that on purpose.

I see the point though.

The website seems overly bent on selling the school as compared to other colleges. Is it for-profit?


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## derekleffew

LXPlot said:


> Please, please, please tell me you did that on purpose. ...


Just seeing whose paying attention.


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## DuckJordan

Looking farther into crass, it doesn't offer you really anything more you couldn't get on your own through hard work. their success rate of 83% is about average for a tech school. But their claim of job percentage of 83% seems a bit high. I would look elsewhere unless you already have a degree or this is your only option, Their most notable "Graduates" are assistants among 3-5 other assistants working for film or studios. If you want to do live audio this probably isn't the school for you. And even if you want to do studio work probably not, From their info page it seems they are only teaching how to use ProTools, and M-audio interfaces. They also have you purchase a mic which is really only good with vocals.


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## nichol88

DuckJordan said:


> Looking farther into crass, it doesn't offer you really anything more you couldn't get on your own through hard work. their success rate of 83% is about average for a tech school. But their claim of job percentage of 83% seems a bit high. I would look elsewhere unless you already have a degree or this is your only option, Their most notable "Graduates" are assistants among 3-5 other assistants working for film or studios. If you want to do live audio this probably isn't the school for you. And even if you want to do studio work probably not, From their info page it seems they are only teaching how to use ProTools, and M-audio interfaces. They also have you purchase a mic which is really only good with vocals.



I don't really know how you looked "Farther into CRAS," but I can tell you you're pretty much wrong on everything you said.

There are hundreds of successful graduates, many of which have gold/platinum records on display at the Conservatory (the director of Ed., Mike Jones, promises that if you are ever awarded one from the RIAA, the school will buy two: one for you, and one for display at the school). 

The school has a completely comprehensive curriculum. You WILL learn everything there is to know about live sound, and Keith Morris, one of the live sound instructors, offers certification classes for L-Acoustics Soundvision, SMAART, and others. He's a certified distributor of every major company for live sound (L-Acoustics, Meyer, JBL), and knows his ****. 

As for studio work, you are required to learn analog tape. Many schools don't teach tape, but you will actually do your 5th cycle project using the Otari MTR-90. You don't even touch ProTools until cycle 5, actually. The microphone and interface they give you, along with your laptop, is mostly for your own use. You will occasionally bring it to class for various purposes, like syncing DAWs with MTC and things like that, but its purpose is for you to be able to interface with the MIDI devices in the MIDI lab on your own time, etc.

The school is pretty hardcore, and will make sure you're ready to go out into the real world. The music business classes will teach you everything you need to know legally, as well. And the internship department will work closely with you throughout your entire education to help you decide where you want to go. And if you show them you're worthy, i.e. not one of the kids there to just "make beats" and have a 2.0 GPA, they can get you in to any studio you want. The school has a great professional reputation, and the internship department is constantly attending conventions and conferences around the country to keep up with them and make new connections with up-and-coming studios.

But like any school, it's what you make of it. They offer a ton of factory certifications on hardware and software (Logic, all tiers of ProTools), but most of them are optional. Also, they have a very expansive mic locker, but some of the better mics (Holphone H3D, Nuemann M147, Royer SF-24) you need a 4.0 GPA to use. And the internship department sees that too. Your hard work will pay off in the end when it comes down to your internship. They will not lie for you when responding to studios that need interns.

tl;dr: Call the school. They'll tell you whats up. They're very helpful and informative.

Edit: Faculty list: http://www.audiorecordingschool.com/faculty.html
DoE is Kevin Becka (Editor of Mix Magazine) and did I mention Robert Brock? He wrote the book on Logic Pro 9 Advanced Music Production. 
I leave you with a quote from live sound/troubleshooting instructor Jim Bender:

> The school speaks for itself. As an instructor, our students' success (gold and platinum selling records, Grammy nominations, Concert Sound engineers and Post production awards) is a testament to my wonderful co-workers ability to prepare our alum to go out and learn, produce and realize their dreams.


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## gafftaper

Hey Nichol88 would you please tell us how you are connected to CRAS? It's not a problem if you are an employee or an alum, in fact that's great we like opening lines of direct communication for our members. However, we do like full disclosure of any bias you may have. 

p.s. Welcome to CB!


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## nichol88

Sorry, yes I am a current student at CRAS. Thanks!


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## Blake

Thank you everyone for these responses! Nichol88, thanks for all that info! It is truly great to hear from a student on this one!


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## nichol88

Sure, no problem! I just wanted to let people know what my expectations were and what they turned out to be. I had the same worries, since I already have a music degree. Going into it, I felt there were some classes where I felt like I was already going to know a lot about, but I _always_ am taking notes on things we talk about. I'm in fourth cycle, about 12 weeks in, and I already know how to track with analog tape on two pro consoles-the Neotek Elite and API Legacy +. Never thought I'd be doing that 3 months ago.


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## gafftaper

Thanks Nichol88. From what you have said CRAS sounds like a good program to consider. 

The general reputation of Full Sail is quite negative to many in the industry. I've heard more than one person say they would rather hire a person with a good head on their shoulders, a well rounded education, and no training than a Full Sail graduate. Unfortunately, this negative shadow from Full Sail tends to cast itself onto any non-traditional program and means that when many look at CRAS they are going to be suspicious (as you saw earlier in this thread). I would start now working on your sales pitch of why your training is truly complete and why you are different from a Full Sail grad. Also I would make sure you do as much outside work as possible (away from CRAS) so that you have testimonials from people not connected with the school to validate that your training is as good as the website says.


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## nichol88

gafftaper said:


> Thanks Nichol88. From what you have said CRAS sounds like a good program to consider.
> 
> The general reputation of Full Sail is quite negative to many in the industry. I've heard more than one person say they would rather hire a person with a good head on their shoulders, a well rounded education, and no training than a Full Sail graduate. Unfortunately, this negative shadow from Full Sail tends to cast itself onto any non-traditional program and means that when many look at CRAS they are going to be suspicious (as you saw earlier in this thread). I would start now working on your sales pitch of why your training is truly complete and why you are different from a Full Sail grad. Also I would make sure you do as much outside work as possible (away from CRAS) so that you have testimonials from people not connected with the school to validate that your training is as good as the website says.



That is a really good point, especially when the program at CRAS is not as large-scale as a school like Full Sail. They do encourage you to get as many internship hours as possible before you leave to do your real internship. There are a few venues around the school that I've been looking at, and any hours (up to a certain point) will actually be credited, too. But you're right, having the education is one thing but if you can show that you have experience too, you'll be the first one hired. Thanks for the insight


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## gafftaper

Actually the same is true for students in traditional university programs as well. The more gigs you can get yourself outside of school the better off you will be when you get out. However it's even more important if you are coming out of a smaller program people aren't familiar with. 

Remember Gaff's rules of getting a job: School is there to get you your basic training and get your your first job. Ten years from now, no one will care where you went to school or what sort of degree you got. Ten years from now, all anyone will want to know is where you have worked and who you have impressed (or not) with your hard work. Whether you get the dream job someday will be the result of a combination of three forces: Education, Hard work, and Luck. The more education you have, and hard work you put in, the less luck you need to get a cool job. However, remember the opposite is also true. There are people out there in cool jobs with no formal training who aren't any good at what they do, but they got their awesome job because of random luck. As a young person starting out you want to do everything you can to maximize all three forces. The best way to do this is to get as much education as you can actually afford (do not go deep into debt or you'll never be able to afford to work in this industry) and to work as much as you can away from school to impress people with your hard work. You maximize your luck by making lots of good friends in the industry.


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