# How to start a lighting and sound company?



## s11a11b11

Hi I need some advice on how i would go about starting a lighting and sound company which would also have photography and video included with it. I was hoping on having a small business someday and i was wondering what is all involved? I am hopping on going to collage soon and wanted some advice from some experts?


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## avkid

Business License 
Tax ID
Insurance

It's not really that complicated to start a business, keeping the doors open is the hard part.


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## Anvilx

avkid said:


> Business License
> Tax ID
> Insurance
> 
> It's not really that complicated to start a business, keeping the doors open is the hard part.



It's called a business plan and it should be amended to the list above. Not only is it a useful road map for you but it is almost essential in securing outside investment in any company.


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## cpf

The business plan is the most important part of any startup business. Even if you don't have all the specifics, writing one helps tremendously in identifying niches your business could fill, how it could make money in those areas, what the cash-flow would look like, and so on. The cheapest way for your business to fail is on paper and in your imagination.


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## Edrick

Money lots and lots of it (got to get the gear from somewhere).


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## DaveySimps

Moving this thread to the General Advice Forum so it is properly posted.

~Dave


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## Grog12

s11a11b11 said:


> Hi I need some advice on how i would go about starting a lighting and sound company which would also have photography and video included with it. I was hoping on having a small business someday and i was wondering what is all involved? I am hopping on going to collage soon and wanted some advice from some experts?


 
A good spell/grammar check is a good one thing to have as well. It'll help make your buisness plan look more professional.


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## DuckJordan

It can't be stressed enough, Location! If you have a business but don't have the customer base in your area you can't survive. Its no use buying all top of the line equipment and hiring some of the best guys in the field and have them sit around all the time doing nothing. When you go to college, make sure you take some business courses if not either major or minor in business management. I have many friends not just in this industry but in several others who didn't take any courses in business management and found themselves completely overwhelmed. 

Another good thing to remember is why you want to start a business. Is it because you don't want to work for someone else? Are you trying to fill an obvious need of the community? or is it just a dream to one day own a business? Without a serious goal in mind you'll likely not get more than a 6 months to a year away from your start point.

This is not saying don't do it, just to remember that starting a business is a big procedure and what people don't like to tell you is money is a huge issue with starting a business. 

So take some courses, find a place that needs your services. I'm not sure how large Huron is getting since I've been stuck in vermilion area for the last two years but I'm betting its still a little small to start a business in entertainment equipment.

just my 2c.


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## derekleffew

s11a11b11, you might find this thread, http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/6604-pies-new-enterprise-thread.html , entertaining if not also informative.


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## museav

Anvilx said:


> It's called a business plan and it should be amended to the list above. Not only is it a useful road map for you but it is almost essential in securing outside investment in any company.


Not amended to, but rather it should probably happen before worrying about some of those issues.

I found that the most helpful thing for me in preparing a business plan was to try to put myself in a potential client's place, ignoring what you know about yourself and trying to figure out who your market, how you find them and why they would want to hire you. Along the way you have to identify your potential competition and what makes you stand out from them or be a better choice. Being good at what you do may get you return business and word of mouth but you have to develop work and a reputation first before that becomes relevant.

There are many things to consider before deciding things such as what form the company should take (sole proprietorship, partnership, LLC, C-Corporation, S-Corporation, etc.). Are you doing this alone? Will you have employees? Will you have a building or property and if so, will you rent, lease or purchase? Will you be selling goods or only services? How willing are you to risk your personal savings and everything you own?

I took several courses in management and accounting while in college and frankly, they haven't been that much help for a small business. I'm sure it would be quite different for a larger business, but in may case some of the Adult Education classes at a local college helped more along with the SBA (Small Business Administration office located there.

I'll add that finding a good business attorney and getting their input prior to starting my business was one of the smartest moves I made. It may not have been inexpensive but his assistance and support were well worth it.


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## NickVon

Aside from the paper work side of starting a buisness. The next big one i would think would be Transportation.

Of your self or your equipment. IE, if you drive a little Nissan Z3 or some such, you might want to look into a Miniban, Cargo Van. You need a way to get your equipment to and from gigs.

Next would be using some free online services, develope a rental aggreement that protects you, your hardware, and your customer. I'd watch the People Court, you can get a lot of good ideas of what NOT to do


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## museav

NickVon said:


> Aside from the paper work side of starting a buisness. The next big one i would think would be Transportation.
> 
> Of your self or your equipment. IE, if you drive a little Nissan Z3 or some such, you might want to look into a Miniban, Cargo Van. You need a way to get your equipment to and from gigs.
> 
> Next would be using some free online services, develope a rental aggreement that protects you, your hardware, and your customer. I'd watch the People Court, you can get a lot of good ideas of what NOT to do


Assuming that rental and staging is the type of business being considered, there are other forms of lighting and sound companies. While they may be good for initial research, for actual contract advice or anything like that I would find a good attorney that knows what they are talking about and that will work with you.

A basic tenet of any business plan is defining whether you are creating something to fill a known need in an identified market, creating something unique for which you need create a need and market or creating something for which there is no apparent need or market. Each has different potential risks and rewards but products or services with no identifiable market or offering nothing unique in an already saturated market are not usually a good business plan.


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## Edrick

Does anyone have samples of business plans in word document? I've looked at a few places online but they all want you to purchase their software or something. Perhaps if some companies had samples of their plans that'd be great.


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## themuzicman

I'd say try to work for one first before you go starting one. Learn how they do it and go from there. I work for both a smaller company that focuses in audio and a larger company that does audio/video/lighting. The smaller company is giving me a firsthand look at how hard it is to start in the business - but I am learning what it takes to get connections and run a business. 

On one end of business you need to buy gear, assemble said gear into a road-worthy manner, a way to get gear to a venue, a proficient operator, and of course a gig to work. On the other end of business you have taxes, billing customers, buying gear, repairing gear, and tons of tiny things you wouldn't believe!

PM me and I can tell you tons o valuable things I've been learning!


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## mstaylor

When you start buying equipment, insure it. It costs but so does a catastrophic loss. I work with a company that did that and lost 90% of his gear. When he replaced it he had been able to take some extra money and the insurance money and greatly improve his system. I don't suggest going out and trashing your gear but at least he didn't have to start over.


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## len

If I can borrow a joke from another industry:

The best way to make a small fortune in the entertainment production industry? Start with a large fortune.

Seriously, if you're serious, find a job working in another company. Learn the ropes. Learn everything. Be good at coiling cable. It's more complicated than it sounds. Learn everything you can. Take notes. Ask questions. Don't spout off too much. Don't act like you know it all. I've been in the business for 30 years and I still don't know 1/100th of what I need to.


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## avkid

Len hit it spot on, don't jump in when you're not sure if the water is over your head.
I'm still getting out from under the debt I incurred in my first attempt at starting a production company.

You can have all the best gear in the world, but if you don't have the right people it will just sit collecting dust.
I definitely consider myself lucky to be able to work alongside some of the most talented, yet humble people in the business.

You're never too good to coil the feeder.


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## mstaylor

Another addage when bidding jobs,"If you get everything you bid, you are too cheap. If you don't get any, you are too high. If if get some, lose others then you are in the neighborhood."


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## themuzicman

avkid said:


> You're never too good to coil the feeder.


 
The best boss I ever had held this mantra, "I will never ask you to do anything I wouldn't do or haven't already done" - to prove his point, when our trash compactor broke one day he jumped straight in the dumpster to rearrange trash so everything would fit. 

That was at a deli, but the same applies for production work, you are never too good to coil feeder. Plus, if you want feeder coiled right you need people who know what they are doing! The best type of training in production work is to watch how it's done (at least for me) - lead by example and people will follow suit!


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## derekleffew

Sorry for the hijack...

themuzicman said:


> ...The best type of training in production work is to watch how it's done (at least for me) - lead by example and people will follow suit!


Well, yes and know... 
I'm reminded of something from another thread:

theatre4jc said:


> ...My biggest pet peeves with "experienced" hands is that they wait to be told what to do instead of asking. I will never take time to stop my work and ask one of the locals to do something, unless I can't do it by myself. ... People that lack initiative only waist my time and piss me off. ...


I love watching other people work, especially if they've previously pissed me off.

The reason "experienced hands" will watch and wait to be told is that they hate doing things twice. The local hands are working under the direction of someone they've never met before, who will be gone in a few hours, and possibly will never meet again. The road guy knows what has to be done and how he wants it. Most locals also know what needs to be done, but probably don't know necessarily the order in which things have to happen, or whether the road guy wants his cable coiled over-over, over-under, figure-8, or another. If he doesn't specify and then doesn't like the way I'm doing it, it's his fault not mine, and it might be a very long load-in. (Load-outs not-so-much, as everyone wants to get out ASAP. Four-hour minimums for a two-hour load-out work in the road guy's favor.)

Lead by example, of course, but don't let others get away with watching while you work. Involve them. That's what they're there for. Encourage and teach rather than criticize.

/end hijack


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## Pie4Weebl

derekleffew said:


> Sorry for the hijack...
> Well, yes and know...
> I'm reminded of something from another thread:
> 
> I love watching other people work, especially if they've previously pissed me off.
> 
> The reason "experienced hands" will watch and wait to be told is that they hate doing things twice. The local hands are working under the direction of someone they've never met before, who will be gone in a few hours, and possibly will never meet again. The road guy knows what has to be done and how he wants it. Most locals also know what needs to be done, but probably don't know necessarily the order in which things have to happen, or whether the road guy wants his cable coiled over-over, over-under, figure-8, or another. If he doesn't specify and then doesn't like the way I'm doing it, it's his fault not mine, and it might be a very long load-in. (Load-outs not-so-much, as everyone wants to get out ASAP. Four-hour minimums for a two-hour load-out work in the road guy's favor.)
> 
> Lead by example, of course, but don't let others get away with watching while you work. Involve them. That's what they're there for. Encourage and teach rather than criticize.
> 
> /end hijack


 
Haha, agreed. Roadies hate it when stagehands start "free lancing" on us! Its my show not yours, and I don't care if you prefer you to do it your way.

Likewise if I'm doing actual labor, you shouldn't think of it as, "oh the road guy is helping out", so much as "the road guy has decided you are incapable of doing your job, so now he is doing both your and his job".

//I hate crappy labor

//Was doing a show at a high school, where a "King of the Booth" decided to redo my safety cables, because "we have higher standards here". Told him if I saw him redo anything I personally did again, his day would be over.

// I could rant for ages

//"Do you really want all those cables tied in, you don't need both a ground AND a neutral"

//"Why are you upset that we got a satellite for a 200' throw?"


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## museav

Edrick said:


> Does anyone have samples of business plans in word document? I've looked at a few places online but they all want you to purchase their software or something. Perhaps if some companies had samples of their plans that'd be great.


Writing a Business Plan | SBA.gov


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## Blacksheep0317

Honestly, as much as all the actual business advice is awesome and all, the most important thing is to not focus on going right into business yet. As someone who has gone from ground up to a fairly well off company, here is my quick word. Take all the work you can get. Before trying to make a name for a company, begin by making a name for yourself. A business is only as good as the people behind it, and even more so in this industry unless people can place a face to a name you wont get very far esp in the beginning. The way I got going was picking up a stage hand job in HS after running our stage crew for a few years. Got onto the overhire list with my local. Then got into some venues doing sound and being foreman for larger and larger shows with the production company. Got through IATSE's apprenticeship. Then getting bands to pick me up..then once my name was out there and I was picking up enough work, got the DBA to make it easier to get paid. Then started going off on my own. Take things as they come. A few good friends in the right places will get you very far around here, and become irreplaceable assets later on. Keep your nose clean, work hard, ask questions and gain as much experience as you can. Don't rush! I promise it wont help anything.


HOWEVER!


By no means am I telling you to just drop your hopes!
This is one of the few industries where you can go to work and come home again and people will go "Your job is awesome!" Keep it fun, but serious, and put in your share of the work and you will go miles.


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## Synchronize

I would drop some money on some For Dummies books having to do with business, business plans, and marketing/advertising.

But I honestly think that the best think you can have is the right idea at the right time in the right place. The other thing I would recommend is don't spread yourself too thin. If you're going to do lighting, do lighting. If you're going to do sound, do sound. If you're going to do video, do video. You will never build a quality inventory if you are trying to spread one slice of butter on an entire loaf of bread. Look at the most successful rental companies in our industry. The majority of them focus on one discipline. Then look at the small companies that never grew and have been mediocre for 20+ years. They try to do everything and do an ok-poor job.

A great place to start, especially with lighting, is weddings. Pick up a couple par cans (or LED pars if you have the cash) and uplight a couple family/friend wedding receptions. Take lots of pictures and make up some brochures. Drop off said brochures at local banquet halls and go from there. Brides pay lots for things like DJs and uplighting.


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## gafftaper

Don't forget that a great summer job for a college student is working for a rental/production company doing concerts, festivals, and fairs. If you can't find a job then try to get an internship. If that doesn't work volunteer to coil cable for free, just get your foot in the door and prove you are useful, pay will come later. The experience is going to be more valuable than most classes you take in school. Combine that with your theater degree, and business classes and you will be well on your way. 


derekleffew said:


> Well, yes and know...


Do I detect an error in word choice from the great editor himself?


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## avkid

gafftaper said:


> Do I detect an error in word choice from the great editor himself?


 

> Posted by derekleffew
> Well, yes and *know*...


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## KeyWestDan

Some good advice in this forum. In my case, I have a tiny company looking for niches in my little market. Had a fair amount of video/audio equipment and decided to do a rental house. Bought some more stuff and just did it. I do have many years of business experience. Put together a website, distributed some flyers, to start off with. Not enough business to make a living, but it is doing okay, and is part of a group of business things I am doing, so it all adds up. There was nothing previously except one sound company that didn't do DIY rentals and is expensive. They also don't have video projectors or any video equipment.

Pretty much low end stuff, but it works well. This wouldn't work in a major market but if you find someplace small enough but with enough people, like we have with being a tourist trap, it would work on a small scale and then can be built up.

Planning on getting into lighting beyond the basic video lighting we have for weddings and other events. Going to get a theater gobo and promote it for weddings, which is what brought me here first. Always have been interested in this stuff and have a long photo and video background.

Anyway, hello to all the folks here from Key West, FL.


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## Scott R.

s11a11b11 said:


> Hi I need some advice on how i would go about starting a lighting and sound company which would also have photography and video included with it. I was hoping on having a small business someday and i was wondering what is all involved? I am hopping on going to collage soon and wanted some advice from some experts?


I know I'm several years late responding to this post..... but.... I'm sure people interested in the topic still read it. So many people have mentioned having a business plan... some have joked about the expense... etc. In reality to start a business of this sort you must have experience in the field... enough to have made contacts and be entrenched in the who's and what's of your region. I have small sound rental company that I started only after being a sound engineer for over a quarter of a century. I worked for big sound company's, all manor of venues, toured the world with bands, etc... Only after I decided to retire from touring did I start a small rental operation. I had anticipated doing it and began buying gear one piece at a time years ago. I also have a full-time "house gig" that pays very well, has benefits and a retirement plan. My little sound company is just a supplemental income. I rely on my connections and relationships that I have developed over the last few decades. The most important advice I can impart on someone wishing to start such an operation... is to not chase flavor of the day trends with technology. Much of the gear I own is 20 to 30 years old. I have refurbished everything. It all looks brand new. I keep everything well maintained. I have enough gear to do a small/medium festival stage.... but I have designed my rig to completely breakdown into numerous smaller systems. I make sure everything kinda works with everything else. That is the real key to my success. My gear is capable of being configured many different ways. I build my own speaker cabinets. The most popular being a trap shaped 12"x2" box. It can be crossed-over passively or actively. They can be stacked up into a decent sized club rock PA, they be rigged and flown easily, they can be mounted on stands, turned on their sides with a custom wood block and be a stage monitor. I package the rest of my gear.... amps, eq's, wireless, etc... to be very versatile. I don't have big main amp racks, and big monitor amp racks. All amps are racked individually in molded cases that be stacked or spread around an event space. same with eq's, wireless, etc... I keep cable trunks and the like small and easy to transport. I don't use big heavy cases or trunks for anything. Even my full rig is broken into enough reasonably sized pieces, to where I can just about load it all in/out by myself. Point being, is my gear is suited to my criteria first... secondly variety is very important. And thirdly the service I offer is very unique. I don't have a big line-array to cater to the big concert world. And I do not own plastic self powered speakers on a stick. Line-array is not the answer to every gig, neither is a plastic powered speaker. And unfortunately there is a huge valley of quality available products between those two options. I even do things like make my own sub-snakes that are break-away and flow through. Through the whole chain of gear I try to make sure everything has multiple uses. Therefore I create a niche for myself. The service I offer is more important than the gear I have, although the gear is obviously important too. When my gear is combined into it's largest "rock rig" format it looks like a smaller version of a big touring rig. My cabling, patch, and packaging all have that appearance. When broken into smaller rigs, or flown all over a truss in a large event space, it tends to look nicer than your average off the shelf gear. I do not recommend buying the latest flavor of the day crap.... and make no mistake... it is mostly crap. If you get into that trap you will constantly be chasing gear. Take time, spend money on quality, don't be afraid to build cables, and other helpful items yourself. Be prepared to spend a good two or three years building up any kind of clientele. Do not cater to one section of the business. I'm just a good ol' boy from Texas, but my clientele is wide and varied. I work with numerous ethnic, and religious groups, all kinds of music, weddings, business events, seminars, etc. It would not be uncommon in the span of a week to do an insurance seminar in a hotel meeting room, a Vietnamese cultural event at some strip mall banquet hall, and a blue-grass festival at the local fairgrounds. You have to be prepared and able to service that kind of variety. You can't just assume because you hang around a lot of bands or DJ's that you can make a living and pay for all your gear just off of your circle of people. It's good to have an "In" in those sorts of circles, but you will sink if you think you can depend on just that. Start out small. Don't rent a shop or storage space right off the bat. Pay cash for gear, do not finance. Keep your overhead at zero if possible. When my gear sits it does not cost me money. I have a small shop here at my house. All my gear is paid for. I find gear in some very unlikely places. Garage sales, thrift stores, on-line classifieds. I've even been given a ton of gear that was about to be thrown out by some of the big sound company's I work for. I have traded work for gear. I make a point to invest in my gear with every paycheck from my day job. Even if I can only afford $20 bucks that week, I will still buy a connector of some sort, or a roll of gaff tape, or batteries or something useful. My goal is long term. I hope to continue working this rig when I retire. I'd like to have enough regular clientele to send other people out to operate the gear, and just have a steady cash flow coming in. It will never be bigger than it is now. I'm not trying to build up to something bigger. It's important to choose a lane and stay there. If your goal is to be the next Clair Brothers, then start with that goal in mind. My goal now is to educate my clientele as to the variety of audio services I can provide. Many hire me for one type of thing, and think thats all I do. So it takes effort to create that awareness among your customers. Pricing is also very important. Many people price themselves right out of business. Some price too low and spend their way out of business. Others use pricing like they are a premium AV rental house, and their gear just sits there waiting for work. A good rule of thumb to start is look at what it will cost you to do they gig. Do you have to rent a truck? Do you need labor or additional technicians, are you responsible for parking, feeding your guys, a hotel room, do you need to rent a specific piece of gear from another company for your gig? Add up all the real cost of doing the gig and then double it. See how reasonable that is for the gig you're doing. Make adjustments from there. Some clients will flat out tell me what kind of budget they have and we start from there. I never take the cheap gig with the promise of bigger gigs to come. I've been doing this for nearly 30 years, and I have yet to see the bigger gig come from those kind of clients. Keep your gear well maintained and clean at all times. It looks bad when you roll into the hotel ballroom and all your gear is covered in cow poop, beer and mud from last weekends Tejano gig in the rodeo arena. Try to network with other companies that are your size. Make friends with those people. Give them work when you can, and they will do the same. Don't ever play the territorial game and make enemies. Loan a piece of gear now and then to your buddy's, chances are you will need a favor at some point too. Do the occasional free gig for charitable events, and make sure to get the write off. When you do free or reduced rate work, ask for permission to hang a sponsor banner or advertise in some way. Make sure you are listed as a donor to whatever charity it may be. Always pay your help on time. Get shirts and hats made with your company logo. I rarely give them to clients. I usually distribute the to stagehands and laborers that I work with. They will be wearing your stuff at other gigs and your name gets around that way. Never say no to client. Always respond with an "I'll see what I can do". Gigs can be very stressful at times. Always maintain your cool. At least have a DBA and a separate bank account for your business income. Pay your taxes. Be aware that when buying gear.... you will spend nearly as much on cabling and packaging (cases, etc) as you will on the gear itself. Always have expendables.... tape, batteries, sharpies, a labeler, etc.. Always have spares.... mics, speaker drivers, cables, connectors, etc. If your gear is ever staying over night anywhere... make sure security is being provided.... do not leave until you verify they are there, and have a word with them about what exactly they are guarding. Leave your number with the guard. Verify what time he is leaving and make sure you are there by that time. Always get as much information as you can about the venue.... power, load in/out specifics, parking, etc.... Get information about the actual event..... a stage plot for the band, a layout for the space, clarify where you're gear is going (it sucks to move things twice!). Be prepared for the "Oh by the ways!". Have an extra wireless handheld for an MC. Be ready to record the event if asked. Be prepared for crowd control measures. Protect your gear and yourself with barricades if you feel it may be necessary. Have some rain gear to cover up your stuff in case of rain. Be prepared for a blistering 17 hour day in 100 degree heat. If you can kinda think and work along those lines, you should be fine. 

Scott R.


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## kendal69

s11a11b11 said:


> Hi I need some advice on how i would go about starting a lighting and sound company which would also have photography and video included with it. I was hoping on having a small business someday and i was wondering what is all involved? I am hopping on going to collage soon and wanted some advice from some experts?


I started my business 30 years ago, and the advice I always gave people to start a business was to buy a license and get some cards printed. It really is that simple. Now the hard part comes. STAYING IN BUSINESS. I slept on a mat in a rented garage apartment and ate a lot of cup o soup and worked 20 hours a day for years. I remember doing a job for $500.00 which at the time I thought was a HUGE SALE. By the time I figured all my costs ( not including my time ) I made a total of $5.00 for two days work, and I did a lot of those to showcase my work and it paid off down the road. Today It's nothing to do $250K in a week and 50% of that is profit. 
My advice is do anything and everything you need to do to stay in business and it will pay off. If you don't want to work for nothing for a few years perhaps, then being in business isn't for you. 
You will not make money quickly but if you stay with it long enough you'll do alright. 
I always said the only reason I was in business was so I could do things MY WAY, because I was tired of getting jerked around by morons that always took credit for my work and always blamed me if things went south. That goes for customers also, if I deal with a customer that's a jerk, I just turn around and walk away and tell them to get someone else, because I won't be abused by any customer for any amount of money. My proof, I walked away from a 75K one day job because the guy was a jerk.


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