# Customer Service/Gel Swatchbooks



## photoatdv (Feb 26, 2010)

I was working on a design tonight and realized I don't have a rosco (my preferred brand of gel) swatch book around. Then I remember when I ordered the swatch books a few weeks ago I couldn't find a link to order theirs... so I go to their website to look at the online one. I happen to notice a new order link. Click on the link and go to a page saying you may only select one of the swatch books and they'll charge you $7.50 s&h! 

Every OTHER gel manufacturer sends free swatch books. Since I happened to have an Apollo swatch book here (which they promptly sent when I requested it... for free), I decided I'm going with Apollo for this show.

It just irks me that they want to charge for it. Maybe I'll get over it and go back, but for the moment I'll be getting Apollo and Lee gel...

Hint to anyone from Rosco on here... bad idea!

EDIT: John came to the rescue! I got the swatchbooks from him in less than a week. Thank you! Rosco, you have good dealers...


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## erosing (Feb 26, 2010)

If I remember correctly, they changed it when they realized a lot of photographers were ordering the swatch book for gelling their hotshoes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## derekleffew (Feb 26, 2010)

Good memory, Arez. From this thread Rosco Swatchbook:

Ame said:


> Hi all,
> This is my first post here, so bare with, it’s a bit long…. It is true we have been inundated with swatch book request, which would generally be FABULOUS, however they are from outside of the lighting community thanks to blogging on the world wide web and a magazines who posts pages on "freebies" for scrapbooking or flash photography. Both would seem to be a nice ancillary market for gel, but what they are generally doing is getting free swatch books, taking only a few samples out and throwing the rest away. When they need more, they get another swatch book because we sent them out free of charge. This has been increasing monthly for the last year and a half and although we’ve increased our staff and production schedule to include weekends, it hasn’t been enough to supply the design community AND the scrap bookers or flash photographers. It’s impacted us more than the other gel companies simply because our name was out there first and spread like wildfire. One blog post has 50,000 readers and I think we've heard from most of them.
> To top it off we have been adding (GREAT) new colors and encouraging the lighting community to update their swatch books. Please know we absolutely want you to have the tools you need. Our first priority is to supply the lighting community with a swatch book – and you have to see #302 Pale Bastard Amber. We are implementing more processes as I write this. If you are unable to get a swatch book from your local dealer, please email me! We try to keep dealers well stocked with them. If you are a teacher, please email me so we can add you to our Teaching Tools mailing. We have a bi-yearly program where we will mail you Teaching Tools, including enough swatch books for the semester. As always, swatch books will be available at any Trade Show we're attending.
> I apologize for the long blog. As you can probably guess, I take this issue pretty seriously. Thank you for your patience and understanding. And thank you to Derek for the invite!
> ...



Yes, it's sad that Rosco has decided to start charging a nominal fee to cover their expenses, but I'd rather they do that than penalize those of us who pick up swatchbooks from tradeshows and our local dealers than raise prices on all products. 

Anyone heard from Ame lately?


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## doctrjohn (Feb 26, 2010)

derekleffew's post and quote is accurate and I would like to emphasize that all Rosco swatchbooks are still available free of charge from your local (or national) dealer. If you don't have a preferred local dealer, feel free to send me an Email at john_at_fullcompass_dot_com and I will make sure we get one out to you right away. Certainly not saying that you shouldn't use Apollo gel, I am a big fan myself, but I also want to make sure that Rosco's reputation stays intact.

Best,
John


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## photoatdv (Feb 26, 2010)

Thanks John. I guess that makes sense... it's a lot harder (and less likely) that these photographers and scrap book people will call a distributor and ask for one than fill out a form on Rosco's website.

I will send you an email shortly. I love a few colors of Rosco gels that I just can't find an equivalent!


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## erosing (Mar 3, 2010)

Just to note, Lee also charges for their swatchbooks to be sent directly. Oh how times have changed. 

Direct from Lee's contact page:
"For Swatch Books please visit your local dealer visit us at a trade show or click here to order one directly: There is a fee of $6.95 for orders in the states; 10.95 worldwide. The links will open in new window."


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## Raktor (Mar 3, 2010)

If you have even the slightest relationship with your dealer, they'll send you one for free. Online pay for orders are just to stop people who are abusing the system.


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## MNicolai (Mar 3, 2010)

What bothers me is not just that Rosco and Lee charge S&H, but that Rosco says after you file your order that it could take 6+ weeks to get them shipped to you. I had to order another Rosco book a few weeks ago and will probably still be waiting another several weeks.

My most recent Lee book came from a distributor outside of Lee Filters (Filmtools.com?) and they actually had a swatch to me in about a week. They still charged S&H, but at least I paid for S&H and knew it would show up _this month._

I understand that companies have overhead they need to cover one way or another, but it's a flawed marketing model to charge for the swatches. I was talking with someone about this a few days ago and my exact words were:

> It's hardly a big thing at at all, the $7.50 for S&H, but that $7.50 is telling someone you've got a great product, but they can't see how great it is for themselves until they pay a fee.



After my recent encounter trying to get my hands on additional swatch books, I took some extra time to thank Kelite for not charging S&H on Apollo swatches. In a given year, I don't know that I purchase tons of stuff from Apollo, Rosco, GAM, or Lee. We mainly pull from our existing gel inventory, but having realized how nice it is to have a face to a company here on the CB forums who is easy to contact, I think I'm now much more likely to purchase Apollo gels and lighting accessories. Most of my items on my next big purchase have been spec'ed as Apollo items for that reason.

Some marketing advice for companies thinking of charging me to see how great their products are: don't. If I'm desperate, I'll bite. Let's face it, I'll still have to buy some Lee and Rosco gels. But in most situations I won't waste my time spending money just to _look_ at someone's product. If companies charged fees for their catalogs and mailings, I bet that'd be a really easy marketing model to maintain -- they'd spend a lot less money on all of that, but they'd also only have a fraction of the number of people looking at their catalogs and subsequently buying their products.

Telling me you've got a really cool thing I might be interested in, then asking me to pay to just to look at it, all sounds like a bad trick played on naive 7-year olds by fifth-grade bullies. I like to think I'm past that phase of my life now.


> If you have even the slightest relationship with your dealer, they'll send you one for free. Online pay for orders are just to stop people who are abusing the system.


Yea, I could, but I bother him already about 2-4 times a week on pricing things out for me and working on projects of mine. If I can go to someone else for the simple sake of not taking even more time out of his week, I'd prefer doing that, even if it costs me a couple bucks.


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## Footer (Mar 4, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> Yea, I could, but I bother him already about 2-4 times a week on pricing things out for me and working on projects of mine. If I can go to someone else for the simple sake of not taking even more time out of his week, I'd prefer doing that, even if it costs me a couple bucks.



Its not that huge of a deal for them. They are there to get you what you need. When you buy thousands of dollars of stuff from one dealer they can bend a little. I have had the head of sales for BMI drive one sheet of gel to the nearest interstate exit to meet me because it was left out of an order. No, they don't make any money sending you swatch books or really make any money selling lamps or gel, but when you are going to buy that new lighting console or in my case replace all of your soft goods you will go to them because they were there for you. These shops are all about tromping through the expendables in order to get the larger sales. They get the swatch books for free and postage is cheap.


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## shiben (Mar 4, 2010)

MNicolai said:


> Yea, I could, but I bother him already about 2-4 times a week on pricing things out for me and working on projects of mine. If I can go to someone else for the simple sake of not taking even more time out of his week, I'd prefer doing that, even if it costs me a couple bucks.



I dont feel bad about it. Last time I was at the warehouse with our supplier, we chatted for about 30 minutes or so about random things. They can take the 5 seconds to walk to the back room and pick up a swatch book from every gel maker in the country. Who knows, maybe you will buy different/more gel because of what you see in the swatch book?


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## ship (Mar 4, 2010)

Once got a used "Designer" Rosco swatch book from Design Lab Chicago for free. It was missing a few gels. Larger sized and I think Rosco has stopped making them as they were perfect in size for something between a Inkie and MR-16 in gel size. Yep, that's what I used it for and it became.

Agreed with the above, never had to pay for a swatch book from a dealer, just as sugguested retail price is often sugguested if direct thru the manufacturer over that of a distributer. On the other hand, perhaps paying a few bucks for a swatch book isn't a bad thing in something that couldn't be afforded. You pay for drafting templates don't you? Or perhaps not if Auto Cadd. Put it another way, remember paying for a sample kit for paint, forget what it was... for Iddings sample or FX paint but the sample was sufficient for the project. Also in like '98 remember having paid a few hundred dollars for a copy of Sweet's Group for like an encyclopedia of free catalogues that paid them so as to get published with them. For lamps as an example, only Philips paid to have their free catalogue in the encyclopedia the end users paid to get. Still though it was a good resource in things available and ideas. Often listed on such catalogues is a resale value, normally it's a free catalogue but money to do so is valid. Got a few swatch books say from rubber dynometer density or squishyness to hardware cloth like samples. Had to pay for them in getting but in now having them I can often replace at less a price what the manufacturer might sell me as a finished product for more cost.

Gel sample swatch books should be free or nominal charge perhaps, but in the end your use is professional use of it and just as with any other swatch book given the above, might be worth paying a nominal fee for at some point.


"and realized I don't have a rosco (my preferred brand of gel) swatch book around." Means to me you need more than a few available to each and every customer or in having one or a few swatch books, it's either not worth your effort so as to ensure as with gathering other stuff that swatch book or it's not important enough to you to ensure you say have one for work and one for home. Beyond that, it's the vendor's fault that no matter how many free sample kits they make available to you.. you didn't have another where you were a the time. Been there, done that myself but I didn't blame the vendor especially if going on line to them to out of the blue to them asking instead of going to your supplier or company you left your swatches with in asking to ship them.

Where is your preferred brand of swatch book at this point? Rosco of course should pay to send you another free sample thus otherwise you will change brands.

Sorry, not geting the arguement in seeing such things perfectly free thru suppliers normally and even should be for sale. After that in if you already had one but forgot it somewhere, just as if you fogot your C-Wrench somewhere and were no longer useful for the crew, you go home or sweep the floor at best. Not seeing a Rosco problem here if in contacting them directly they want to charge for it. I think samples books shouldn't be free. Save a few cents per gel in the next price raise and charge for the samples made up from them.


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## photoatdv (Mar 4, 2010)

Ship, I wasn't blaming them for having left it at work/home for the day/night. I've been looking for one from Rosco for a while. I recently switched theatres and left them there...last project I just used the online "swatchbook" because i hadn't gotten around to ordering a new one (my fault).... then had gone online 2-3 times before this happened (that I posted about) and couldn't even find a working link to order one (dunno... I spent at least 30 minutes searching their website). So then when I had a design project come up that required enough gels in colors I'm not familiar with off the top of my head, and went onto the online swatchbook... inadvertently found the order form and found out they were charging, I got frustrated.

It's all been taken care of now though. It was more of an observation that company A (in this case Apollo) was REALLY helpful and made ordering it easy and company B (in this case Rosco) made it confusing, hard, and cost money. So I went with company A, though I usually use company B. In other words those kind of things to make a difference to me.


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## Kelite (Mar 4, 2010)

Each of you posting has raised valid points, each with merit. The situation taken from a manufacturer's perspective can actually extend beyond that of a gel swatchbook, rather to that of a business model. Since the debate can/will continue whether or not there really is a _free lunch_, the simple truth is this- someone _will_ eventually pay for a free sample/catalog/T-shirt/swatchbook/whatever. In some cases the end-user sees higher pricing in a product segment or perhaps an entire brand's offerings. In other cases the manufacturer has budgeted the cost of said sample/catalog/T-shirt/swatchbook/whatever to 'the cost of doing business' and sees the long term value in supporting the end user. 

"You say potato, I say potato; you say tomato, I say tomato." 

We can each ask ourselves: 'Who will support me, and to what extent?' And hopefully we'll have a long list of valued dealers and manufacturers with their hands in the air saying "Pick me! Pick me!"


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## gafftaper (Mar 4, 2010)

This seems to me like it's really just a change in distribution model. Rosco still wants us to get the gel samples. They are just tired of giving it away to people who will never purchase the real product. For those of us in large cities it's no big deal because our dealer has a big basket on the counter and he's only 10 minutes away. So it really only hurts you guys who are two hours drive from your "local" dealer. Once again, the lesson here is to develop a relationship with a specific sales person, at a specific dealer, whom you deal with all the time (not just buying the cheapest price on the net). When you have a good dealer-customer relationship, it's no big deal to call up your guy and ask him to send you a couple books... even if he is located in Denver and you are in Nowhere, Iowa. 


Kelite said:


> ...the simple truth is this- someone _will_ eventually pay for a free sample/catalog/T-shirt/swatchbook/whatever. In some cases the end-user sees higher pricing in a product segment or perhaps an entire brand's offerings.



How much would the cost of Apollo Gel go up in order to give us a pack of Cinnamon gum with every order?


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## Kelite (Mar 4, 2010)

gafftaper said:


> How much would the cost of Apollo Gel go up in order to give us a pack of Cinnamon gum with every order?



Good question- I'll ask!


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## photoatdv (Mar 4, 2010)

Thank you to John for the swatchbooks.


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## SteveB (Mar 4, 2010)

I find it somewhat humorous to compare business models of Rosco and Lee vs. Nemetchek.

A lighting student who has zero contacts at lighting shops is told by Rosco that the cost is $7.50 for shipping a SINGLE gel swatch book, which is probably about $4 - $5 worth of profit above the shipping costs. All for a gel book that probably costs about a buck, at best, to manufacture.

A lighting student wanting an industry standard CAD program (worth $2000 for a full blown version) can get a FREE student/educational version simply by proving they are a student and intend to use it in a educational environment for a few years.

At the Lee website, I could not even find a way to get a gel book and they seemingly want you to use the on-line version, which (rant ON) IS NOT THE SAME AS LOOKING AT A REAL SAMPLE UNDER APPROPRIATE LIGHTING !. They should be ashamed of themselves !.

EDIT: Lee charges $6.95 ea.

While gel books from Apollo and GAM are free. 

Mind you that all the manufacturers are constantly adding filters and WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT !. Thus you do need to constantly upgrade to new books and I am not paying for a gel book.

Whose gels is the student likely to start getting familar with and will go to in future designs ?. Hell, I'm a professional and whose gels do you think I'm going to use more often ?

Anybody from Rosco and Lee paying attention here ?.


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## Footer (Mar 4, 2010)

SteveB said:


> Anybody from Rosco and Lee paying attention here ?.



I do see Rosco's issue though. When you google "rosco gel book" and get results such as this, I can agree with them. For the students out there, BMI and Production Advantage LOVE to hear from students. One email to them and you can have a swatch book in 3 days. I asked for a few for my students last year from Production Advantage and I got 30 lee books, 30 Apollo books, 30 gam books, and 30 rosco books along with gobo books and some great posters from Selecon. 

The freebie websites that pop up on digg or the scrapbookers websites are a power to be dealt with. These groups will sign up for anything that is free and when a site that has something free gets dugg/slashdoted they can easily get 10,000 requests overnight.

Apollo has always been big supporters of students and it is really starting to pay off for them. I can't tell you how many of the little packets that had a random gobo and a piece of perf gel they gave out at USITT myself and my friends I went to college with grabbed. We trippled out gobo stock at our university with those things. However, 
if the word got out that Apollo was giving out free little boxes of stuff to the scrapbookers and the people on dig, 10,000 people would request one and the program would get killed. 

Dealers do not pay for the swatch books. Students should be OK with calling dealers. In college we had to call lighting companies to get rental rates for fake shows we were designing. We had to present budgets with our design. We told the companies up front that this was a fake project. The companies that worked with us anyway got a leg up. When we had an actual design to do you better believe I called that company to rent whatever I needed to rent instead of the one that did not talk to me. Its in the dealers best interest to spend the 1.00 on shipping and 5 minutes of time to get someone who could be a future customer.


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## MNicolai (Mar 4, 2010)

It is very difficult to play nicely with people who do business like this...

(From the link Footer posted)

> They certainly will [send you a swatchbook,] especially if you 'lead them on' to believe that you are starting a huge job, have a large expendable budget, and need to figure out what colors, corrections, and diffusion you want to purchase.
> 
> And, a bit of advice.
> 
> ...



For the record, I do agree that we probably should pay for them. This completely contradicts what I said before, but Ship's point is bullet-proof and I have to agree with him. We pay for drafting templates (usually a heck of a lot more than a piece of plastic with holes in it is actually worth) and we pay for fabric samples. Granted, we've been _conditioned_ to expect to gel swatches for free. The fact that some no longer offer that -- at least not without going through other channels -- is less a mark on them, but gives us far more reasons to appreciate those companies that still do provide them without complication.

I probably will go directly to my dealer from now on because not only will Rosco and Lee charge, but Rosco has additionally proven they are ill-equipped to provide swatches for those people who have paid for them. I understand if they want to charge for them, and more than just S&H, but for the actual product -- but if I'm paying for it, I want it on my doorstep within a week. Hang ups and factory delays are understandable, so in some cases I'll give them more than a week, but three months is out of control.

There's another piece to this equation, though, which is that I know Keith and Melissa at Apollo. I wouldn't say I know either of them especially well, but I've contacted them personally on the forums, via Twitter, for the Design-A-Gobo contest, and they provide to me a face for the company that's easy to contact. In the last two weeks, I've received two emails from Melissa; one to acknowledge my request for marketing materials, and a follow-up to make certain they arrived and that there wasn't anything else I needed (or if there was, she also let me know I could contact her directly).

I can't think of any other manufacturer besides ETC and Nemetschek where I have that kind of access to a real person. It's weird to think about, but if someone asks me what I know about Apollo, I immediately think "Keith and Melissa." And while part of me hopes Apollo prospers, grows, and becomes even more awesome, I hope they never grow to a point where they lose that contact with their customers. In the meanwhile, if I can buy a primary red gel from Rosco, or a primary red gel from Apollo, at the same exact price, yea, I'm going to lean towards Apollo for no other reason than I like them more.


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## Pie4Weebl (Mar 4, 2010)

I'd rather not pay for photo people to get free gels!
Let's see, in arms reach I have....
4x Rosco books, an apollo book, a gam book and a lee book.

hmm. I should scatter those around so I always have one... maybe one in the bag, one in the car... moral of the story, if you don't have a gel book you are doing something wrong.

Also Kelite, is there even an apollo dealer in STL?


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## Footer (Mar 5, 2010)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Also Kelite, is there even an apollo dealer in STL?



Cine does not carry it but they do carry Lee and Rosco. According to apollo's site... 
Alobar's Lighting & Sound 
 716 Hanley Industrial Court,
St. Louis, MO 63144
PH: (314)781-7600 

As to the "We pay for drafting templates and software" thats a different thing all together. Even though I do own an ETC branded template that ONLY features ETC fixtures, lighting templates are not made by the lighting companies. They are made by 3rd party companies. Having a template does not effect the fixture choices I will make for a given show. Having a swatch book does change what I will be purchasing for a given show.


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## MNicolai (Mar 5, 2010)

That's true. Drafting templates may be a stretch while they don't directly influence your purchasing, but fabric samples from Rose Brand are still paid for by the customer and I wouldn't order a single piece of fabric from them without first looking at a sample of the material. I ordered a sample from them a couple a weeks ago and didn't think twice about paying for it.


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## Pie4Weebl (Mar 5, 2010)

Footer said:


> Cine does not carry it but they do carry Lee and Rosco. According to apollo's site...
> Alobar's Lighting & Sound
> 716 Hanley Industrial Court,
> St. Louis, MO 63144
> PH: (314)781-7600



Cine does not actually stock lee, you have to go to baddog for that. Alobar's doesn't have any inventory of gel.


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## Kelite (Mar 5, 2010)

Wow- you guys are really good at posting while I'm at home asleep! 

I think most of you 'seasoned' theatrical folks remember that from 1992-1995 Apollo only made and sold custom gobos. The original name *'Apollo Custom' *was derived from our one and only product line- custom steel gobos. Standard steel patterns were introduced in 1995 / 1996.

As black and white glass became available in 1998 (and I have the etched holes in my old work shirts to prove it!), the CMYK colored glass product was introduced at LDI 1999 in Orlando. Our name changed at this time to Apollo Design Technology to better reflect the DMX lighting accessories and peripheral items gaining space within our facility and yearly catalogs.

Gel followed in 2000 with our first 100 gel transmissions, and has grown to 150 colors which include color corrections and diffusions. The swatchbook itself has transitioned from a mere assortment of color swatches into a full lighting primer, including _color density data, transmission %, Possible Uses/Suggestions, Color Description and Color Interaction Data_ on the back of each identification slip between the colors.

*The cost for us to produce each gel swatchbook is in the neighborhood of $8.75 per gel swatchbook*. This is a far cry from a 'few bucks a book' as some might think. As a manufacturer of all kinds of stuff, we work with a local bookmaker to print the covers and other data, cut and coallate each gel sheet and identification sheet, drill the holes for the hinge post, and assemble.

We too have been swamped with scrapbookers and photographers finding ads for 'free stuff' on a number of web sites. To keep our costs down, we verify who is who and who does what. We know those of you reading this post are the _real deal_ because you are here. 

Anyway, Melissa and I thank you for the kind words and ask that you let us know how we can help you with the lighting challenges each of you tackle on a regular basis. We're here because we care.


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## Footer (Mar 5, 2010)

Pie4Weebl said:


> Cine does not actually stock lee, you have to go to baddog for that. Alobar's doesn't have any inventory of gel.



Well, they used to back in the day at least. Then again, they also used to have a complete rental stock and some pretty decent grip trucks.


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## chris325 (Mar 5, 2010)

Kelite said:


> for a free sample/catalog/T-shirt/swatchbook/whatever



Honestly, even though I'm a student, the free stuff actually does influence my preferences over brands of fixtures, gel, etc. The "Periodic Table of Element" poster on the wall behind me is a great example, along with the hundreds of pages worth of ETC catalogs I have. Although I would still love ETC products even without the promotional stuff, it's got to be good for helping sales. 

I think that companies could probably sell shirts and stuff if it was more than just a shirt with a Selador/Selecon/Vari-Lite logo. Great example: I would buy the "Life is a freakshow, we just do the lighting" Vari-Lite shirt anyday if I could find someone selling it. And Vari-Lite gets advertising. Win-win.


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## fx120 (Mar 5, 2010)

It's honestly a miracle that all the major filter manufacturers are still giving away swatch books at all. 

To the person who suggested the cost to produce a swatch book was "about a buck at most", you've obviously never spent any time around a print shop and the involved process it takes to get (in the case of the rosco book) ~200 pages printed, then aligned them properly and in order with the gel, the cost of the gel, then have it all cut, bound, and packaged. 

I would estimate that it is costing Rosco about $6-$10 per swatch book.

Shipping even via USPS is still going to come out to a $1.50 or so, plus packaging at another $1, and then the *real cost* of an employee (hint: not what they're getting paid per hour) to fill out the packaging slip, print the label, package the product, ect. 

If you called me just out of the blue and asked for a free swatch book, I'd charge you the same $6-7 bucks for shipping because that is what it would cost me to ship it to you. Now if you had a good relationship with me I would happily eat that cost because ultimately I know the benefit of it in the long run. 

Is it great that some manufacturers are sending out swatch books free of charge? Yes, be glad that they're willing to eat that cost. 

Is it understandable that Rosco doesn't want to just freely throw $15 out the window to every tom dick and harry that fills out a simple online form to get free samples? Absolutely. The swatch books are still free from the hundreds if not thousands of dealers across the US, likely the same place you're buying your gel from.


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## SteveB (Mar 6, 2010)

fx120 said:


> all.
> 
> To the person who suggested the cost to produce a swatch book was "about a buck at most", you've obviously never spent any time around a print shop and the involved process it takes to get (in the case of the rosco book) ~200 pages printed, then aligned them properly and in order with the gel, the cost of the gel, then have it all cut, bound, and packaged.
> I would estimate that it is costing Rosco about $6-$10 per swatch book.
> ...



That was my quote about a buck a book, and - no, I've never spent a minute in a print shop, so can only say thanks for the correction and a thanks to Keith at Apollo for the info as well and I'll stop lamenting the loss of the free gel book.

Maybe I'll e-bay my Cinemoid book from 1970 to buy a few Lee and Rosco current books.... (JK).

Steve B.


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## Lotos (Mar 7, 2010)

chris325 said:


> Great example: I would buy the "Life is a freakshow, we just do the lighting" Vari-Lite shirt anyday if I could find someone selling it.


 
I'll sell you mine, for... *Dr Evil Voice* ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS 

Seriously though, you're right... Swag has potential to influence sales to a serious extent... That's not to say it's the sole basis for a decision, or indeed a factor in the majority of sale... But if a $25 T-shirt helps you sell 5% more of your $3000 lights... I'd say it's a worthwhile investment.

The counter your second point though... Sales of the swag would negate any benefit garnered by including it free with purchases... At that point, Vari-Lite et al would be simply hocking t-shirts on the side...


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## shiben (Mar 7, 2010)

Lotos said:


> I'll sell you mine, for... *Dr Evil Voice* ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS
> 
> Seriously though, you're right... Swag has potential to influence sales to a serious extent... That's not to say it's the sole basis for a decision, or indeed a factor in the majority of sale... But if a $25 T-shirt helps you sell 5% more of your $3000 lights... I'd say it's a worthwhile investment.
> 
> The counter your second point though... Sales of the swag would negate any benefit garnered by including it free with purchases... At that point, Vari-Lite et al would be simply hocking t-shirts on the side...



Well, I feel that sending free stuff at the interest stage does increase the chance to make a sale tho... For example, I need some new gels for the next show I am doing, and Apollo sending a free swatch book and gobo catalouge makes me more interested in utilizing their products, to the point where thats the first place that I am looking for gel and gobos. If I was looking at MLs, I would be more likely to be interested in a product whos seller sends me stuff and is interested in me owning it. Quite frankly, a free t-shirt and a call from the distributor is a large factor, because they show interest in your sale, even if it is only going to be 4-5 units. If they show interest now, I feel more comfortable calling them up when I have an issue. I feel like a t-shirt or swatch book can make a huge difference just because of the interest in your show/company that it shows.


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## bdkdesigns (Mar 7, 2010)

It always depends on who you are as well. I never have a problem getting Rosco swatch books sent to me for free. Then again, while we aren't a dealer, we keep a full stock of 10-20 sheets of every Rosco color. It's a lot easier for us to just replenish what we used during the year in August than to pay for rush shipping to Montana for every show. 

That being said, I love Apollo's book. It is by far the cleanest and comprehensive book out there. I just wish there wasn't that 5 sheet minimum because I would probably use it more often but it's hard squeezing in 5 sheets in a show budget when I only need 1 or 2. Our show budgets reflect the stock we have so they assume we won't be purchasing gel. I know that I could sure use some Hot Wings here soon.


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## Lotos (Mar 7, 2010)

shiben said:


> Well, I feel that sending free stuff at the interest stage does increase the chance to make a sale tho... For example, I need some new gels for the next show I am doing, and Apollo sending a free swatch book and gobo catalouge makes me more interested in utilizing their products, to the point where thats the first place that I am looking for gel and gobos. If I was looking at MLs, I would be more likely to be interested in a product whos seller sends me stuff and is interested in me owning it. Quite frankly, a free t-shirt and a call from the distributor is a large factor, because they show interest in your sale, even if it is only going to be 4-5 units. If they show interest now, I feel more comfortable calling them up when I have an issue. I feel like a t-shirt or swatch book can make a huge difference just because of the interest in your show/company that it shows.


 
Well now... See... Hrm...

There comes a line...

Rosco/Apollo/Lee/GAM sending me Gel Books and Gobo Catalogues, will influence my purchasing decision, but not because they sent me free stuff... Simply because I have the information I need at my fingertips... If I don't have to go hunting for it, the better.

If I called my local distributor and asked about Martin Moving Lights, the last thing I'd expect them to send me would be a T-Shirt and a Pen... A nice colour glossy brochure on each of the most popular MAC Fixtures, however, would definately help my purchasing decision... It would also enable me to plop something down on my GM's desk and say 'Hey, look at what this can do!'


Don't get me wrong, I love swag as much as the next guy... So does my other half, or she wouldn't have a mousepad ... But if we're talking pre-purchase swag, I'm going to expect it to be sale-related... The fun stuff should arrive once you've given them money.


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