# Company Use of Tape - how do you do it?



## de27192 (Jun 14, 2015)

I am wondering how people in theatres, venues etc manage the company / artist / client use of adhesive tape whilst they're in the venue. You know how it is, there is always someone coming up to you asking for a roll of gaffa to tape this or that down, put line markings on the floor, stick set lists to the wall, hold things together. I reckon we go through a couple of rolls per day, and of course you can normally rely on not getting a roll back once you've given it to somebody.

The trouble is our stage-quality gaffa tape is about $7 a roll so over a busy show we might be looking at giving out up to $100 of tape which by the end of the year is a not inconsiderable expense (especially once you add our own tape use on top of that!)

I have thought about doing things like - only giving out cheap tape, buying in short length rolls, etc. I wondered how other people manage to reduce their expenditure on tapes and similar consumables. Do you bill it to the company? (I would!) Do you see it as part of the service? Do you just say no?

Just wondering. I feel like we spend too much giving away tape to people who should really know better and bring their own and more than likely don't on the basis that they know the venue will just cough up and supply it.


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## SteveB (Jun 14, 2015)

We are happy to give them the tape, gaff or spike, as the alternative is charging them, which they won't pay.

Then they resort to blue or tan masking, or electrical, all of which are a PITA to get off the floor after it's been stomped on.


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## Footer (Jun 14, 2015)

SteveB said:


> We are happy to give them the tape, gaff or spike, as the alternative is charging them, which they won't pay.
> 
> Then they resort to blue or tan masking, or electrical, all of which are a PITA to get off the floor after it's been stomped on.



We don't allow non gaff style tapes on our floor for this exact reason. It is bad enough getting shredded 1/2" spike up. 

I go through about a case of gaff a month. I also go through about 100+ rolls of spike a year. Most of my tape gets eaten up taping FOH snakes and laying floors. If you have a client in who needs it, give it to them but limit the amount you have on deck. I usually leave the half rolls left after laying a floor onstage and take everything back to my office. Side note, don't store gaff somewhere people can easily get to it. ALL of our tape lives in a 2 drawer legal file cabinet behind my desk... so anyone wanting gaff has to not only come to my office but get behind my desk. Easy way to make it a pain to come and get. Also, I want to know where you are getting gaff for 7 bucks a roll. Best price I have found is BMI's house brand stuff by the case @ 13 a roll.


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## Colin (Jun 14, 2015)

Currently, I'm in a primarily academic theater where I don't see a penny of any rental fees the college gets, so I get to tell renters they have to provide their own tape. I make sure they know (by word of mouth and in a house rules text) that gaff/spike and dance floor tape are the only tapes allowed on any surface belonging to the theater, and not any duct, masking or electrical tape. We also have a few student-run dance clubs that use the space, and I've created an expendables fee that they pay based on my best calculations on lamp life, rep plot gel, tape use etc...

At my old job, which was much busier with rentals (maybe 120 days/year) all expendables including tape, lamps and rep gel were included in our fees. Whether or not the fees were enough is up for debate, but we always managed to get through the year within budget. I second Footer's recommendation of BMI's gaff to hand out like Halloween candy. Good case discount and not the worst quality. I've used other house brands that are comparable too, but BMI has been cheapest. And yes, of course, keep the stock locked up and only put out whatever you deem to be a reasonable amount for the show.


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## derekleffew (Jun 14, 2015)

de27192 said:


> The trouble is our stage-quality gaffa tape is about $7 a roll




Footer said:


> Also, I want to know where you are getting gaff for 7 bucks a roll.


Since the OP called it "gaffa tape," one must assume he's not in the US. One suspects an exchange rate is in play.

I know I've told the story before about chain and padlocking rolls of gaffers tape to various places in the theatre: SR/SL, lockrail, FOH. Also, a new roll is not issued until the empty core is returned. I also charged at least one roll (more if they used a Marley floor) to every rental.

Explaining to users that 2" tape costs approximately 10¢ a foot (in the US) may or may not help.


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## Morte615 (Jun 14, 2015)

I always recommend adding a consumables charge to any rental contract. Figure it out based on past experience with the group or with similar groups. You may not always break even but should get close. And if the group dies not use any you just made up for the next group who used too much.


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## Footer (Jun 14, 2015)

Morte615 said:


> I always recommend adding a consumables charge to any rental contract. Figure it out based on past experience with the group or with similar groups. You may not always break even but should get close. And if the group dies not use any you just made up for the next group who used too much.



It really depends on how your deal is structured. My office likes to kind of play it both ways... we charge a "rental" fee for our PA, video gear, and backline. We don't charge for tape, marley floor use, or lighting. Personally, I wish we either charged for everything including consumable OR charged for nothing and doubled our rates. You can get to a situation of nickel and diming your clients which can lead to issues down the line. If you are getting push back from the money guys on how much you are spending on tape have them add a 50 dollar consumable line item to every show or just raise the day fee 50 bucks and forget about it. It really is in the cost of doing business, how you want them to pay for it is your choice.


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## AsherSB (Jun 14, 2015)

Just a quick question, what kind of gaff tape to you guys use? I think I might start ordering by the case, what brand has the best discounts? Hoping to get it under 7 cents/foot, but that might be a challenge.


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## Colin (Jun 14, 2015)

AsherSB said:


> Just a quick question, what kind of gaff tape to you guys use? I think I might start ordering by the case, what brand has the best discounts? Hoping to get it under 7 cents/foot, but that might be a challenge.



Yup, 7 cents/ft would be a bit of a miracle but you can get close with a house brand like BMI's. That's running $14.10 by the case right now (about 8.5 cents/ft?) and depending on your relationship you might sweet talk your sales rep down a little more. I like P665 for balancing strength and economy. I used to buy house brand but decided it isn't worth it since we end up using more yardage and curse words for the same job due to it being thinner/less tacky. Rosebrand does a 10% case discount, but again I usually get that price for less than case quantity from my friendly neighborhood sales rep. Still looking at more than $15 per 55-60yd roll, rather than the $12ish rate you're hoping for.

Keep in mind that gaff does have a limited shelf life, usually stated as one year but seems longer in truth. If you won't go through it at that rate it isn't worth the case discount in my opinion to have gooey tape by the time you reach the last layer in the case.

There are some very interesting and in-depth (but fairly inconclusive) threads on tape on CB if you want to know more than you ever probably need to about the adhesives, etc.


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## de27192 (Jun 14, 2015)

Answering points / questions etc...

SteveB said:


> We are happy to give them the tape, gaff or spike, as the alternative is charging them, which they won't pay.
> Then they resort to blue or tan masking, or electrical, all of which are a PITA to get off the floor after it's been stomped on.



This is an interesting one I hadn't really thought of - handing out house tape because the rolls of tape are cheaper than the hours I have to pay the crew to re-varnish the stage when their value-land crap peels up the paint. There is certainly a good logic to it.


Footer said:


> We don't allow non gaff style tapes on our floor for this exact reason. It is bad enough getting shredded 1/2" spike up.




Colin said:


> I make sure they know (by word of mouth and in a house rules text) that gaff/spike and dance floor tape are the only tapes allowed on any surface belonging to the theater, and not any duct, masking or electrical tape.



I hadn't previously considered it but this is something that I might consider adding to our next tech spec. We actually have a varnished wood stage rather than a standard black theatre stage, as we're a sort of traditional appearance music hall kind of place, not a black box theatre. I should definitely put a clause in for stage damage from cheap tapes etc. 


Morte615 said:


> I always recommend adding a consumables charge to any rental contract. Figure it out based on past experience with the group or with similar groups. You may not always break even but should get close. And if the group dies not use any you just made up for the next group who used too much.




Colin said:


> I've created an expendables fee that they pay based on my best calculations on lamp life, rep plot gel, tape use etc...



This is a route I'm leaning towards (explanation below).


Footer said:


> Also, I want to know where you are getting gaff for 7 bucks a roll. Best price I have found is BMI's house brand stuff by the case @ 13 a roll.




derekleffew said:


> Since the OP called it "gaffa tape," one must assume he's not in the US. One suspects an exchange rate is in play.



Not just exchange rate. Sounds like there might be a genuine cheaper thing going on! My exchange rate is a little out - it's more like $8. But we use Le Mark MagTape Matt Xtra, which is pretty much what every theatre / venue / rental company in the UK uses for entertainment industry black gaffa. It is a completely matt cloth tape so no reflections under light at all and soaks up ink well so great for marking things. http://www.lemark.co.uk/magtape-gaffer-tapes/default.aspx - I'm not sure if they have a USA Distributor or whether it's financially viable to ship from the UK or whatever, but that's the product...

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Comment / Explanation


So basically the options I saw for doing this were:
1) _Keeping a stock in a locked cupboard in my office and some kind of form on a clipboard so people can sign for a roll each time they come and get one and on the last day I tot it up and stick it in an invoice and give it to the PM for cash payment._ The trouble is they will just turn around and say no. And if you say "well you can't use your crap tape, as per the venue terms" they'll just say "OK we won't tape it". When the promoter is a client, I can't really get into an argument over it - it's not the image the management want. You'd rather avoid disputes with paying clients altogether... but when the inevitable happens, a dispute over who pays for the sub-hire of equipment is fine - that's serious money. But over a roll of tape? Nah.

2) _Give out cheap tape, use good stuff in-house._ But the trouble with this is that (a) the saving you make is now even more marginal; (b) you have to justify the management why you have to buy more decent gaffa when there is loads of cheap stuff in the cupboard - and you end up using the cheap stuff too; and (c) you look a bit of a douche-canoe when somebody says "mate can I just use your tape" and you say "no but I'll go and get a roll of cheap stuff and you can have that" - it just seems a bit petty to me.

3) _Stock small rolls. _Buying small rolls seems inefficient because the cost per metre is higher. I think telling my techs, when a roll (which is normally about 2" thick on the roll) gets down to 1/2" thickness, put it away and start a new one; so we can give the small ones out when people ask for tape... is not ridiculous. I might do that as well.

But mainly I think the solution is

4) _Add a consumables budget to the venue hire cost. _The hire is already a substantial price. Adding a small $50 charge for consumables to the bottom, to cover tape / gel / wear and tear / lamp hours etc seems like a tiny extra cost but helps us reduce our overheads as the expenditure is being covered. Of course some shows will use $100 worth of stuff but others will use $10 worth and it will probably all level out in the end.


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