# Male technician in women's dressing room



## ottoxgam (Dec 16, 2011)

Hey all, I just had a quick opinion question. As part of the shutdown procedure for the night, we have to turn off video monitors as well as amps in the dressing rooms. The crew chief usually shuts it all down. Last night as he was going through the process, he was screamed at for stepping in the women's dressing room. This wasn't a full entrance into into the room, but rather, a few steps in to use a remote on the tv and flip a switch on the wall for the amp. My question is: What is are the rules for this in your house. Male technicians in the women's dressing room, what do you think?


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## kiwitechgirl (Dec 16, 2011)

I'd say it's OK, but the tech needs to knock on the door first and give the girls a chance to put more clothes on if necessary - don't just go barging on in. You don't say whether he did this or not - so if he did knock first, sorry! It's the sort of thing I would bring up in a tech rehearsal briefing or some similar time so they have some warning that it will happen every night.


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## Morte615 (Dec 16, 2011)

Depends on the circumstances. There are just times during a production when the opposite (or same) sex will have to be backstage during costume changes and when people may not have clothes on. It will happen! Though that can be mitigated by discussing it before hand with both the cast and the crew. Make sure the crew knows that if they don't HAVE to be backstage or around the dressing rooms then don't go back there till the cast has left.
Now this particular occasion has raised a few questions, and of course without knowing the specifics it's hard to give an answer but here goes some questions 

1. At what point was he in the dressing rooms? From your post it sounded like it was around closing time for the theater. If so then he had every reason to expect that the dressing room would be empty or at least the few stragglers would be mostly dressed.

2. Is this something that happens every night? If so then it is an expected task that the cast should know will be happening. If he was early on his rounds this time and they didn't expect him then I can see a problem, but nothing that a knock on the door should not have corrected.

3. Is there a female on staff (or ask the cast when leaving) that can do the same task? If so just assign it to them, and have someone double check their work when locking up (there should be no one in the dressing rooms when securing the building anyway.)

4. How long was he in the dressing room, and did his eyes wonder while there? If, as it sounds from your post, he just walked in, turned off the monitors, and walked out I don't see a problem with it. If he walked in, spent some time looking around, maybe takes his time getting to the monitors, then that is something that should be discussed with him.

That's a few questions and suggestions. I say your best bet though to prevent future issues is to bring it up with both cast and crew, and possibly have someone else to the task in that dressing room.


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## DrPinto (Dec 16, 2011)

Keep out!!! A male has no business being in a female dressing room and a female has no business being in a male dressing room. This is especially true in a school setting. Schools are over sensitive about such things. Besides, it would be embarrassing to all if someone was in the middle of getting dressed.

Also, when using wireless mics, there should be 2 sound techs to wire up the actors - one male and one female. 

Keep it separate. Why look for trouble?


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## Morte615 (Dec 16, 2011)

DrPinto said:


> Keep out!!! A male has no business being in a female dressing room and a female has no business being in a male dressing room. This is especially true in a school setting. Schools are over sensitive about such things. Besides, it would be embarrassing to all if someone was in the middle of getting dressed.
> 
> Also, when using wireless mics, there should be 2 sound techs to wire up the actors - one male and one female.
> 
> Keep it separate. Why look for trouble?


 
Yeah that's something else to take into consideration, where is this theater? If it is in a High School then I can see a few problems! But if it is a professional theater then what I said in my first post holds true


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## josh88 (Dec 16, 2011)

With the amount of quick changes I've been involved with over the years, I feel like you've got to get comfortable with somebody seeing you fairly naked. That being said there should always be advance warning so the person involved knows what will have to happen and can get whatever he/she needs to do it comfortably. The same goes for dressing rooms. If there was no other person to go in there to turn things off then he's gotta just make a ton of noise so it is real clear he is coming in. knock on the door, yell to anybody inside, when they say sure its fine come in, double check again, have the women inside open the door so they are letting him in versus him going in on his own. As long as it's real clear what's happening there shouldn't be a problem.


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## tjrobb (Dec 16, 2011)

Two views: One, I am a janitor. There are times I must venture into the women's dressing or rest room, but only ever in the course of pre-assigned duties, and only after knocking AND announcing myself. Two, you always need techs of both genders trained in mic'ing people; I had a 15yo girl ask me to re-attatch her mike to her bra, I simply pointed her to a female crew member and avoided any problems.


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## Footer (Dec 16, 2011)

tjrobb said:


> Two views: One, I am a janitor. There are times I must venture into the women's dressing or rest room, but only ever in the course of pre-assigned duties, and only after knocking AND announcing myself. Two, you always need techs of both genders trained in mic'ing people; I had a 15yo girl ask me to re-attatch her mike to her bra, I simply pointed her to a female crew member and avoided any problems.


 
There can still be problems with that, female or male. Sexual harassment claims have been filed on teachers of the same sex.

And to the OP... as long as everyone was clothed there is no problem with him being in there. You should not enter anyones dressing room without knocking etc... male or female. However, dressing rooms don't have hard gender lines as long as everyone has clothes on.


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## gafftapegreenia (Dec 16, 2011)

Luckily my experiences in this matter are all in circumstances where all peoples involved were over 18. 

Just to be clear, I am a male. 

When I was A2 for musical productions at college, I was often the one tasked with either placing mic's or teaching costume hands how to place mic's. I second that the proper way to do this is to talk to ones actors first, as well as costumes, to establish a time to place mic's on actors. Some mic's might need to be placed before wigs, special effects makeup, whatever. With a timeframe established, it was usually a matter of knocking on the door, announcing that I was microphones, and waiting for a verbal confirmation before entering. 

In a high school/underage setting, it's both easier and creates less liability to just get a couple mom's on the costume crew and train them in mic placement. At least having a trusted parental/authority figure in a dressing room to just watch over things is highly recommended. I could build a rant that while this has to be done simply for liability reasons, its based more on fear and suspicion than anything else, but I don't feel like going on a tangent. But come on, if there's one thing I learned in high school, its kids will find places to fool around no matter what precautions are taken. I mean, if we are going to say that only females can go in female dressing rooms, and only males can go in male dressing rooms, are we now going to separate the heterosexual students from the homosexual ones, and try to make sure that only straight females are placing mic's on other straight females, and vice versa? And what if you are bisexual, or something else? I guess you'll have to go do light crew to keep you from sexually assaulting everything in sight. /sarcasm. 

Again, in high school, there is a liability created simply through the presence of underage individuals. This necessitates that special attention must be placed on areas (such as dressing rooms) where sexual harassment may more easily occur. 

However, In a situation where everyone is of age, I would hope people can be mature enough to realize the context of the situation and then be able to establish appropriate operating proceeders.


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## MrsFooter (Dec 16, 2011)

This is probably going to open a can of worms, but here goes.

From my position in the professional world, I feel like this is an area where people get too sensitive. At least a couple times a year, various dance studios will try to ban men from one side of backstage or the other, or claim our wardrobe room (and the room where staff fridge and microwaves are located) as a dressing room and announce that men aren't allowed in. You know what we do? We ignore them and go about our jobs. No, we don't go barging into dressing rooms unannounced; even as a woman I will knock and wait to be allowed in before entering a women's dressing room. But it's not practical to ban men from all the hallways outside the dressing rooms either. I'm the only woman on staff, and as a department head I have a _billion_ more necessary things to be doing that running errands into the "off-limits" zones. Every one of our dressing rooms has a bathroom; if the parents are so worried about someone catching a glimpse of their daughter as a door swings open as they walk by, then their daughter should change clothes in the bathroom. If our audio guy needs to check the stage monitors in a dressing room he will knock, wait for an all clear, but then you bet your ass he's going to go in, because that's his job.

As for the OP's specific situation, to me it sounds like the people inside overreacted; he was going in to do his job and it sounds like it was late enough in the day that the dressing rooms should have been well cleared. That being said, it's probably a good idea to start knocking on closed doors just to cover your assholes. Because in the game of "he-said-she-said," the "he" will almost always lose.


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## museav (Dec 16, 2011)

Had a similar issue when I was head of the maintenance staff during shows at a large (20,000 seat) commercial amphitheater many years ago. We tried to keep females on staff to address the women's restrooms and dressing rooms, but scheduling conflicts, people getting sick or not showing up, etc. did not always allow that. When that happened we would always first loudly announce ourselves before entering the space (i.e. open the door just enough to yell in while standing back such that you could not actually see directly into the space) and if we received no response then continue to announce ourselves throughout a quick walkthrough before anyone else entered (we'd lock the entry door when we entered so that on one could enter behind us). This was especially critical for the public restrooms and for those I got into the habit of also having one or more people stand just outside to make sure no one else entered and to witness the process.


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## Sony (Dec 16, 2011)

If you're a professional actor or actress in the industry...you better **** well be sure you're comfortable changing in front of other people, including crew. We are all professionals, no one is gawking at your private parts...

High School is a bit of a different story as there are many hormones flying about at that age and crazy parents trying to start lawsuits. However in my college, we all changed in the same dressing room, we didn't have a boys/girls dressing room, we just had one large room, and everyone was professional about it.

Crew always knocks and waits for an all clear before entering a dressing room, but in a professional environment there shouldn't be any "no boys on the girls side" stuff, we are all mature adults. However, knocking is obviously always a common courtesy, no one likes getting caught with their pants down.


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## DrPinto (Dec 16, 2011)

Footer said:


> There can still be problems with that, female or male. Sexual harassment claims have been filed on teachers of the same sex.
> 
> And to the OP... as long as everyone was clothed there is no problem with him being in there. You should not enter anyones dressing room without knocking etc... male or female. However, dressing rooms don't have hard gender lines as long as everyone has clothes on.


 
I have to TOTALLY disagree with you here. Look at the original poster's occupation: High School Student. In a middle or high school, the male dressing room is for males ONLY and the female dressing room is for females ONLY, regardless of sexual orientation. Period! And a teacher should have no problem entering the appropriate dressing room. The students are the responsibility of the teachers while at school....no place is off limits to a teacher.

Once everyone is over 18 and you're in the "Real World", you can be more practical.


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## josh88 (Dec 16, 2011)

When I was back in high school we followed Footer's rule. there were 2 dressing rooms, if everyone was clothed they were interchangeable. the girls usually claimed one so the guys would get the other one. We'd mingle in and out before and after without any problems, and when it was time to change the doors closed and it went to knocking and announcing. Sure it's high school but given that not everybody goes to college, high school should be preparing you for how things work in the real world and as long as everybody treats things seriously and with some respect there shouldn't be an issue with someone doing the job they've been told to do. 

what happens if you don't have any women on crew in high school? then who turns those things off? do you make someone stay until every single woman has left the dressing rooms before they can go in? you have to be realistic.


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## Grog12 (Dec 16, 2011)

DrPinto said:


> I have to TOTALLY disagree with you here. Look at the original poster's occupation: High School Student. In a middle or high school, the male dressing room is for males ONLY and the female dressing room is for females ONLY, regardless of sexual orientation. Period! And a teacher should have no problem entering the appropriate dressing room. The students are the responsibility of the teachers while at school....no place is off limits to a teacher.
> 
> Once everyone is over 18 and you're in the "Real World", you can be more practical.


 
Tell this to the groups full of elementary school and middle school children who use the men's room for over flow for thier girls and make the boys change somewhere else entirely.

To the OPs question. In a shutdown procedure the room should be empty before its closed and locked anyway. Knock to make sure no ones in there the. Flip the lights/monitors lock the doors and leave.


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## ottoxgam (Dec 16, 2011)

Sorry about the bio page, I've been lurking for a while and haven't updated it. Anyways, he walked in and clicked off the video monitor and amp. This was around 20 mins after a performance. The dressing room door was propped open throughout the show and they were using the mens room as overflow. Personally I see no problem with it, quick changes have dulled my senses, as it were. But he probably should have waited. Thanks for all the advice.


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## MarshallPope (Dec 16, 2011)

My two cents - 
I primarily work as an all-in-one sound op/mic tech/etc. In my college, I will go into the men's dressing room unannounced, but either announce myself or grab a cast girl to make sure it is safe for me to go into the women's dressing room. We have a unisex makeup room, and I enter unannounced there as well. As long as you are professional about it, I don't see a problem. I have no issue venturing into a bra to check a mic, but I will ALWAYS give them the choice of letting me take care of it, digging for it themselves, or finding a friend before I reach in.


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## shiben (Dec 16, 2011)

gafftapegreenia said:


> Luckily my experiences in this matter are all in circumstances where all peoples involved were over 18.
> 
> Just to be clear, I am a male.
> 
> ...


 
Actually, this brings up a good point. The only theater I have ever worked in where someone needed to be reminded of proper dressing room etiquette and that people felt an uncomfortable situation had been created was a gentleman who was homosexual enjoyed taking longer to get his clothes on than normal, if we are really that concerned, on a professional level, about seeing others naked, we probably need to separate out more than 2 (Im thinking 5) categories of dressing room... At college or above, be professional, dont gawk around, do your work and move on. Sometimes odd things happen. I have had conversations with several dancers (both men and women) in nothing but thongs/dance belts before as I hung mostly off a platform to re-gell some poorly placed lights. Its theater. Really odd crap happens.


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## avkid (Dec 18, 2011)

shiben said:


> Its theater. Really odd crap happens.


 That says it all.


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## MPowers (Dec 18, 2011)

Remember a week or so (late 60's) doing Gypsy. No possible room for an Equity change booth and the actress knew she'd have to get down to bra and panties. So, in the true spirit of show business, she figured that if the crew had to see her, she'd do it right and give'em a "sight to see" and blew a weeks salary on 8 sets of Victoria's Secret bra and panties. Never saw a lady so Angry and Pissed as when she discovered the crew was all too busy to even notice.


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## shiben (Dec 18, 2011)

MPowers said:


> Remember a week or so (late 60's) doing Gypsy. No possible room for an Equity change booth and the actress knew she'd have to get down to bra and panties. So, in the true spirit of show business, she figured that if the crew had to see her, she'd do it right and give'em a "sight to see" and blew a weeks salary on 8 sets if Victoria's Secret bra and panties. Never saw a lady so Angry and Pissed as when she discovered the crew was all too busy to even notice.


 
Thats actually kind of epic.


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## venuetech (Dec 18, 2011)

I had one local musical company come in every show and change the dressing rooms from male to female and vise-versa. the "men's" dressing room had maybe 2 or 3 more feet of counter space, or was some how "nicer" than the women's.


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## JonasA (Dec 22, 2011)

In response to the posts about high schools not being like professional companies: It depends. Don't generalise. At my school it's pretty widely accepted that, as part of being in the show, you may come across someone in the hall mostly undressed. You're expected to keep walking and not stare. That's just how it goes. As one older girl put it when I did my first show, "you don't have any dignity at musical. But none of us do. And you just have to be respectful of that."

At my school we go both ways on mics; we have the costume girls (who are all girls specifically so that both the boys and girls are comfortable with them helping them do quick changes, etc.), who will often do mics as well, but there's been times when the guys will do girls' mics. This is a consentual process (as in, if one of the two - and it's often the male tech who's uncomfortable! - isn't happy, someone else does it), and again, it's just how it works. 

In my opinion, as long as it's appropriate, professional and nobody's uncomfortable, you just do whatever gets the job done for cast, crew and anyone else around and stop being prissy - at any age.


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## ruinexplorer (Dec 23, 2011)

The difference between professional and HS theater is not always about the attitude, but the age of those involved. Regardless of how consentual it is among those of the opposite gender, you will need to take certain precautions that proper coverage of the performer is maintained and that there are specific boundaries in contact between technician and performer. As HS students are generally not over the age of 18, you can get into some very grey areas from region to region as to what is acceptable by law. This also goes for any professional production that uses child performers.

Now as to someone of the opposite sex being allowed into a dressing room to secure it at lock-down, this shouldn't be an issue since it should be assumed that the dressing room would be unoccupied prior to entry. With the obvious suggestion so often mentioned in this thread, proper notification prior to entry should solve the issue of unknown occupation. This could easily be set up as policy which is given to both the technicians and performers prior to the show so that everyone knows what to expect, there shouldn't be a problem.


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## bishopthomas (Dec 26, 2011)

You're all assuming that much time has passed and this person is locking doors and turning off lights. I read it as the guy wants to get the hell out of there so entered to switch off electrical equipment. When I do walk in gigs in clubs/restaurants/theatres sometimes the band is still on the stage when I'm shutting down amps and walking out the door. It's not my duty to stay until the last person leaves and set the alarm. 

Show's over, he wants to get out of there, girls are taking their sweet time changing so he says, "F it, I'm going in." Of course, a knock and permission is appropriate, but if the door was propped open anyway he probably assumed it was safe.


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## ruinexplorer (Dec 26, 2011)

Problem with that is the equipment could potentially be turned back on if you do so before the last person is out. One theater where I used to work and had a similar responsibility mandated that we had to wait until everyone was out. Biggest reason was that the AHJ told us that we were required to double check all appliances were turned off/unplugged at the end of the night. No one wants a curling iron to be left on and start a fire. Since many performers would go out after the show, they would often have these kinds of appiances on after the show. Of course, they would also be in a hurry to leave and might leave them on.


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## derekleffew (Dec 26, 2011)

ruinexplorer said:


> ...Biggest reason was that the AHJ told us that we were required to double check all appliances were turned off/unplugged at the end of the night. ...


Exactly the rationale (since 1971) behind NEC 520.73, particularly the passage requiring a pilot light outside the room adjacent to the door. 


> *520.73 Switches required.* All lights and any receptacles adjacent to the mirror(s) and above the dressing table counter(s) installed in dressing rooms shall be controlled by wall switches installed in the dressing room(s). Each switch controlling receptacles adjacent to the mirror(s) and above the dressing table counter(s) shall be provided with a pilot light located outside the dressing room, adjacent to the door to indicate when the receptacles are energized. Other outlets installed in the dressing room shall not be required to be switched.


See also the discussion at 520.73 Theater Dressing Rooms - ECN Electrical Forums , but note that it is from 2004 and the code has been modified/clarified in subsequent revisions since then.

Now the big question: How many venues actually comply with this?

(Sorry for the thread derailment, as the turning off of "video monitors as well as amps in the dressing rooms" likely still requires a technician to enter.)


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## DressingRoomThrowaway (Dec 26, 2011)

This is a throwaway account for obvious reasons...

For our biggest production of the year, the fall musical, we have always had two shows on the last Saturday of the run, one at 1:30 and one at 7:30. Well, the girls in the show have had an annual tradition of having a "bra party" in the girls dressing room before the second show. I have no idea exactly what happens during this time as I'm a male technician, but I do know it involves loud music, and well, probably a lack of outerwear. This isn't a huge secret, pretty much everyone including all the staff knows about it.

Well apparently one year, before I ever arrived, all the boys decided to strip down to their boxers and go over and join the girls in the girls dressing room. Yeah. Excellent judgement on that one, guys. As you can imagine, I don't think this went over too well with the adults and now we apparently have a sentry posted in the dressing room hallway to make sure this doesn't happen. Honestly I'm surprised they still allow it to happen at all, as we live in a pretty wealthy community and I don't think parents would be too happy if they knew this was happening (and what about lesbian actresses?).

Anyways, other than that we've never had any dressing room problems. Sometimes quick changes in the wings are necessary and everyone is pretty respectful about it. Usually girls will wear a sports bra or some other tight-fitting tank-top or t-shirt or something to minimize exposure. It's necessary, there's nothing you can do about it.

As a male technician I'll always enter the male dressing room unannounced, but I also always knock before entering the women's dressing room, even if I think it's unoccupied. I take extra care with this when we have dance rental groups that come in that have lots of younger girls. Entering the dressing room with an undressed high school girl would be bad, but it would mostly be embarassing/awkward on a personal level between me and the girl. Entering the dressing room with younger girls that weren't dressed, and with the parents right there, would be a disaster.


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## shiben (Dec 26, 2011)

DressingRoomThrowaway said:


> This is a throwaway account for obvious reasons...
> 
> For our biggest production of the year, the fall musical, we have always had two shows on the last Saturday of the run, one at 1:30 and one at 7:30. Well, the girls in the show have had an annual tradition of having a "bra party" in the girls dressing room before the second show. I have no idea exactly what happens during this time as I'm a male technician, but I do know it involves loud music, and well, probably a lack of outerwear. This isn't a huge secret, pretty much everyone including all the staff knows about it.
> 
> ...


 
Something similar happened in my HS, except in a theater. My old job had a tradition on the final performance everyone runs around in their underthings thru the entire building. Makes me glad the technicians had a better tradition the day after strike (cant imagine what that is yet?). It started in a local bar and ended at someone's house. We made the actors DDs.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 27, 2011)

It's actually not all that uncommon.

And unfortunately happens still at my local high school. Never understood the fascination of dancing in your panties... Makes it hard to believe you're a prudence with that kind of thing going on...

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## shiben (Dec 27, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Never understood the fascination of dancing in your panties... Makes it hard to believe you're a prudence with that kind of thing going on...
> 
> Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


 
Honestly the thing I fail to understand more is dancing in a dance belt and nothing else... We had our theater set at like 60 or something lower, isn't it cold? I always wore a sweater or sweatshirt or something... Honestly, I don't understand the fascination with dancing in the first place. As for the "you're a prudence" comment, was that supposed to be "you're a prude" or you're prudent"? I can understand either. Also some of the actors at the old school would try and get the crew in on it too to "build unity" or some crap like that. Thanks but no. Ill enjoy the view (everyone is 18-23, its college) but certainly wont be taking off my shirt anytime soon (as mentioned above, its cold; I also don't get paid to be looked at for very good reasons).


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## DuckJordan (Dec 28, 2011)

shiben said:


> Honestly the thing I fail to understand more is dancing in a dance belt and nothing else... We had our theater set at like 60 or something lower, isn't it cold? I always wore a sweater or sweatshirt or something... Honestly, I don't understand the fascination with dancing in the first place. As for the "you're a prudence" comment, was that supposed to be "you're a prude" or you're prudent"? I can understand either. Also some of the actors at the old school would try and get the crew in on it too to "build unity" or some crap like that. Thanks but no. Ill enjoy the view (everyone is 18-23, its college) but certainly wont be taking off my shirt anytime soon (as mentioned above, its cold; I also don't get paid to be looked at for very good reasons).


 

ah phone auto-correct for the win, it was meant to be a prude, we had an actress tell the director she was too innocent to be cast as an high school **** role we had for a show we were doing.


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## museav (Dec 28, 2011)

ruinexplorer said:


> The difference between professional and HS theater is not always about the attitude, but the age of those involved. Regardless of how consentual it is among those of the opposite gender, you will need to take certain precautions that proper coverage of the performer is maintained and that there are specific boundaries in contact between technician and performer. As HS students are generally not over the age of 18, you can get into some very grey areas from region to region as to what is acceptable by law. This also goes for any professional production that uses child performers.


This is a critical aspect. A related issue is that it will often be the responsible adult who is held accountable for any improprieties. Too many bad experiences with youths and/or their parents wanting to be treated as responsible adults until something goes wrong at which point those youths suddenly revert to being children who can't be held responsible for their actions. That the legal system places ultimate responsibility and liability on others is a fact that simply cannot be ignored when dealing with children and youths.


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## Tex (Dec 29, 2011)

museav said:


> This is a critical aspect. A related issue is that it will often be the responsible adult who is held accountable for any improprieties. Too many bad experiences with youths and/or their parents wanting to be treated as responsible adults until something goes wrong at which point those youths suddenly revert to being children who can't be held responsible for their actions. That the legal system places ultimate responsibility and liability on others is a fact that simply cannot be ignored when dealing with children and youths.


QFT!
The "underwear dance" is a lawsuit waiting to happen. That's why any teacher with half a brain belongs to an association that provides both insurance and legal defense. Of course, any teacher with half a brain would never allow the underwear dance to happen in the first place...
I always have both male and female techs on the sound crew. Males mic males and females mic females. Problem solved.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 29, 2011)

Tex said:


> QFT!
> The "underwear dance" is a lawsuit waiting to happen. That's why any teacher with half a brain belongs to an association that provides both insurance and legal defense. Of course, any teacher with half a brain would never allow the underwear dance to happen in the first place...
> I always have both male and female techs on the sound crew. Males mic males and females mic females. Problem solved.


 

Hate to be the devils advocate here but we had a very forward lesbian actress who decided while placing a mic on another actress to "brush up" against the other actresses goods. Needless to say just because you have the same gender micing doesn't mean the problem is solved.


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## DrPinto (Dec 29, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Hate to be the devils advocate here but we had a very forward lesbian actress who decided while placing a mic on another actress to "brush up" against the other actresses goods. Needless to say just because you have the same gender micing doesn't mean the problem is solved.


 
Doesn't matter if she's a forward lesbian or backward lesbian - if the actor is uncomfortable with someone placing a microphone on her, she should have got someone else to do it.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 29, 2011)

DrPinto said:


> Doesn't matter if she's a forward lesbian or backward lesbian - if the actor is uncomfortable with someone placing a microphone on her, she should have got someone else to do it.


 
She wasn't uncomfortable until the feel up happened, and DrPinto, while I tend to disagree with you on a lot quite a few of your black and white ideas aren't so black and white. This isn't to start an argument. Try and think about it from the perspective of a very low budget theater who scrapes by with just the basics. No its still not right but to say that it just shouldn't happen sometimes there's very few alternatives and the alternatives may make it more difficult.

Again hindsight is 20/20


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## DrPinto (Dec 29, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> She wasn't uncomfortable until the feel up happened, and DrPinto, while I tend to disagree with you on a lot quite a few of your black and white ideas aren't so black and white. This isn't to start an argument. Try and think about it from the perspective of a very low budget theater who scrapes by with just the basics. No its still not right but to say that it just shouldn't happen sometimes there's very few alternatives and the alternatives may make it more difficult.
> 
> Again hindsight is 20/20


 
I don't mean to come across as if there's only one correct answer to a situation, but I will speak up when I feel strongly about something. 

That being said, I strongly believe in the separation of male and female dressing areas in a school setting where there are minors. Until the students are 18, mommy, daddy, and the school staff call the shots. No opposite sex people in the dressing areas and no underwear dances. Anyone who does differently is exposing themselves (pun intended) to all sorts of legal problems, not to mention nasty publicity for your school and maybe disciplinary action against school staff.

After 18, it's a different game. You're free to do what works for the space you're in.

And it doesn't matter how old an actor or crew member is. If they start brushing up against someone's "goods" in an unwanted way, that's battery (and creepy). That should be dealt with immediately.


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## DuckJordan (Dec 29, 2011)

DrPinto said:


> I don't mean to come across as if there's only one correct answer to a situation, but I will speak up when I feel strongly about something.
> 
> That being said, I strongly believe in the separation of male and female dressing areas in a school setting where there are minors. Until the students are 18, mommy, daddy, and the school staff call the shots. No opposite sex people in the dressing areas and no underwear dances. Anyone who does differently is exposing themselves (pun intended) to all sorts of legal problems, not to mention nasty publicity for your school and maybe disciplinary action against school staff.
> 
> ...



I actually agree 100% with this post and that was how it was handled, immediate removal from the program, and school suspension for 2 weeks. When said person wanted to come back, it went to a vote within the program of who felt comfortable with said person coming back, After it was voted for, the person then had to sign a contract stating if anyone suspects or notifies a person in charge of any miss-conduct they would be immediately removed and the full force of the schools disciplinary action would be brought forward.

Glad we could clarify that, and as DrPinto said there shouldn't be any crossing of the gender lines within dressing rooms with minors involved. If there is only a male tech to turn of the gear, then you wait and have a member of the female gender check the room, and then after an all clear you can go turn of the stuff. Another thing to question is why the gear is located in the dressing room instead of at the console or amp rack... for power control...


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## Tex (Dec 29, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> Hate to be the devils advocate here but we had a very forward lesbian actress who decided while placing a mic on another actress to "brush up" against the other actresses goods. Needless to say just because you have the same gender micing doesn't mean the problem is solved.


I think the example you're using is one of a different problem. 
The first problem of males in the female dressing room is that of the _appearance of impropriety_. The same goes for the underwear dance. The problem is how it looks and the potential for something to happen; not that something already has.
The problem in your example is the _actual impropriety_ of sexual assault. I, as a teacher can't control every action of my students. I can only perform due diligence to control the situations into which my students are placed. Individuals must decide to participate in a civilized society.


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## DrPinto (Dec 29, 2011)

DuckJordan said:


> I actually agree 100% with this post and that was how it was handled, immediate removal from the program, and school suspension for 2 weeks. When said person wanted to come back, it went to a vote within the program of who felt comfortable with said person coming back, After it was voted for, the person then had to sign a contract stating if anyone suspects or notifies a person in charge of any miss-conduct they would be immediately removed and the full force of the schools disciplinary action would be brought forward.
> 
> Glad we could clarify that, and as DrPinto said there shouldn't be any crossing of the gender lines within dressing rooms with minors involved. If there is only a male tech to turn of the gear, then you wait and have a member of the female gender check the room, and then after an all clear you can go turn of the stuff. Another thing to question is why the gear is located in the dressing room instead of at the console or amp rack... for power control...



Well I'll be darn. I actually agree with you 100% too!

(this time)


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