# 1000w PAR LED Replacement



## Emanonc (Apr 29, 2014)

Anyone have a good recommendation on a LED fixture to replace 1000w PARs? I need something that has no control/DMX and can be dimmed via the 120v service. I am looking to replace some fixtures that are in an area that can only be reached by a boom lift. We do not own a lift and and want to get away from the cost of the rental for burn outs. It is a mix of narrow and medium lenses. Thank you.
-Joshua


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 30, 2014)

Someone may know of that powerful of LED but likely if you really need that much light, it will take two. No LED dims well on mains dimming - not below 10% or so. Why not convert circuits to relay switched circuits and use wireless DMX if you don't want to run a cable?


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## JD (Apr 30, 2014)

Nothing in the white LED market that kicks like a 1000Q par yet. If you use the standard theater type (FFN, FFP, etc) they have a life of about 400 hours. Try using the industrial version such as the Q1000PAR64/NSP lamp which has a 4000 hour life. ( SYLVANIA 1000PAR64Q/NSP/120V 56206 1000W 120V Bulb PAR64 Ext. Mogul End Prong Base (GX16d) Narrow Spot Halogen ) They are slightly dimmer and a bit lower in color temp (2950k) but they will save you a lot of trips with a lift! Shop around a bit as prices are all over the place. (Link above just a sample.)


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## techieman33 (Apr 30, 2014)

If you have dimming going to them you can also set the max output at 95% and greatly increase lamp life that way. There is a chart that was posted here somewhere that said what percentage output resulted in different lamp life hours. Maybe someone can find that and link to it.


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## gafftaper (Apr 30, 2014)

Are these used for theater lighting or are they just a house light/architectural light?

If you are using them for house/work lights/architectural lighting, I'm wondering about using the new Osram Kreios XFL. According to @DELO72 it's not actually available yet, but VERY soon. It's more of a work light/flood light. It will be marketed as a 500 watt Halogen flood replacement. You still might need to use two of them but it would be pretty good.

On the more stage lighting side it depends on if you put gel in the original light or not. Getting a white light as bright as an incandescent is hard to do. However, if you typically put a fairly heavily saturated gel in that fixture then it's possible to get something brighter than the original fixture


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## derekleffew (Apr 30, 2014)

techieman33 said:


> There is a chart that was posted here somewhere that said what percentage output resulted in different lamp life hours. Maybe someone can find that and link to it.


Not a chart, but a formula (from Mathematical Formulas for Lighting | ControlBooth ):

life/LIFE = (VOLTS/volts)^13

Thus a 120V lamp run at 114V (95% of 120, which is NOT necessarily 95% of FL on the control console), will last 195% of rated life, and output 84% of rated lumens.

Thus a 120V lamp run at 108V (90% of 120, which is NOT necessarily 90% of FL on the control console), will last 393% of rated life, and output 70% of rated lumens.

But to the original question: 
There is NO drop-in LED replacement for a 1000W PAR64 lamp. There are complete luminaire replacements available that perform very well.


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## bdkdesigns (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm excited because I just bought a couple of K9 Bulldogs for my summer gig, loved them last year at USITT and followed up with them again this time. This first year will be a challenge though because we are trying to reduce scroller fan noise and ran out of money to do a full changeover. I finished out my downlight LEDs (I was two short last year) with Chauvet Colorado, put Elation Par Zooms in the FOH to replace my Toning and Blending scrollers, and four K9's to replace the side light scrollers that are in the VOM so I will have a mixture of LEDs and Conventionals....should be interesting, especially on an Express. Next year I'm already approved for 8 more to finish that out and an ION, and I'm going to push for Altman Spectra Cycs which is something that they have also expressed interest in.


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## robmonty (Apr 30, 2014)

You might want to look at the Altman Star Par white version. They were working on a mains dimmable version, which will fade from a line voltage dimmer. I would expect the bottom of the dimming curve would be a bit dodgy, just like everything else currently available for line voltage. This fixture gives you the ability to change lenses, which is handy. Have a look at the info sheet here, but make sure you look at the bottom set of specs for the all white version, below the specs for the RGBW version. http://www.altmanltg.com/altman-led...ar Par/Altman-Spectra-Star-PAR-Data-Sheet.pdf


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## Kelite (Apr 30, 2014)

Great comments listed above, as we await a true 1000W (comparable) white LED wash fixture. At the rate the technology is moving, it likely won't be too long.

Here is the chart requested earlier in the thread:

Act Voltage-Ave life-total output-Act Watts
85% 825% 58% 78%
90% 400% 70% 85%
95% 200% 84% 93%
100% 100% 100% 100%
105% 54% 119% 108%
110% 29% 138% 116%
115% 16% 160% 124%

Lamp life will increase 12% for every 1% change in voltage, but ouput would decrease by 3.6%, and color temperature by 0.4% per percent in voltage.


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 30, 2014)

Or just use Lamp Life Calculator- Support


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## BillConnerFASTC (Apr 30, 2014)

Of course the problem with rated hours is that it's based on a bunch of samples and average. You could relamp and have the lamp at the bottom of the bell curve that is going to give you 10 or 20 percent. Like some of the old timers told me Kleigle had that "special" T12 for doing photo metrics - the one that was way above average for lumen output. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.


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## Judge (May 4, 2014)

I have looked at a bunch of different white LED units. The only ones I have found with a decent output are the aforementioned Altmans and the Colorado zooms. Both of these sell for prices well north of $1k each and will require DMX running into them. I would second JDs idea of using the industrial Sylvania bilbs, run them at 95% and then put a quarter CTB in to bring the color temp back up. Thats certainly the most cost effective solution.


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## Jay Ashworth (May 4, 2014)

BillConnerASTC said:


> Of course the problem with rated hours is that it's based on a bunch of samples and average. You could relamp and have the lamp at the bottom of the bell curve that is going to give you 10 or 20 percent. Like some of the old timers told me Kleigle had that "special" T12 for doing photo metrics - the one that was way above average for lumen output. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.



Lies, damned lies, and a rigged demo.


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## DELO72 (May 6, 2014)

JD said:


> Nothing in the white LED market that kicks like a 1000Q par yet. If you use the standard theater type (FFN, FFP, etc) they have a life of about 400 hours. Try using the industrial version such as the Q1000PAR64/NSP lamp which has a 4000 hour life. ( SYLVANIA 1000PAR64Q/NSP/120V 56206 1000W 120V Bulb PAR64 Ext. Mogul End Prong Base (GX16d) Narrow Spot Halogen ) They are slightly dimmer and a bit lower in color temp (2950k) but they will save you a lot of trips with a lift! Shop around a bit as prices are all over the place. (Link above just a sample.)


 

I have to correct this. "Slightly dimmer" is Waaaaaaay off. They are less than 50% as bright as the FF series. For instance-- The industrial 4000hr. PAR64 1000W NSP is rated as 135,000 cbcp. The FFP version (1000W PAR64 NSP 800hr) puts out 330,000 cbcp-- ~250% brighter. So... NOT EVEN CLOSE in terms of output between the 4000hr. architectural types to the Stage FF series. The WFL and MFL are about 200% brighter (so less of a difference there, but still a large difference). For Saturated colors, a lot of LED PAR fixtures on the market will match the output of a 1000W PAR with a deep saturated gel in front. But in open white there is still nothing on the market that even comes close in output-- at a similar size and fixture type- yet that is.


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