# Done With Inexpensive Moving Lights, Especially Platinum Spot 5R



## bishopthomas (Dec 26, 2011)

I've had so many problems with moving lights lately. They're showing up to me broken, units I've sold are not 100% functional. It's getting extremely old. The Elation Platinum Spot 5R is a complete piece of crap, do not buy it! At one point 3 out of 4 of my units had issues, including bad chips and a frozen pan motor. I ended up swapping parts around and sending Elation a box full of pieces to repair/replace. They did, it arrived in working condition (after 4 weeks of renting) and I swore I'd get rid of them. It was hard to do only because every time I used them I was reminded how nice they actually are (when they work), but one went out the other day and I just got an email stating that the gobo wheel "makes a noise and doesn't turn."

I shipped it in the original box/packaging, so no issues there. I can't wait to be rid of these things. I ordered some Chinese LED movers. If they break I'll throw them in a ditch (not really). They won't be any worse build quality than the Elations (which I bought new, btw). I'll be doing a review with pictures and video as soon as they arrive.

So that it's not a complete bash Elation thread, I had a MAC250 arrive with a twisted chassis and another one with all kinds of errors. I'm done with inexpensive moving lights. Cheap shows will get Chinese and anything requiring more will get rented Varilites.


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## Pie4Weebl (Dec 26, 2011)

I do love my alpha spot 300 HPEs!


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## bishopthomas (Dec 26, 2011)

I'm sure they're great fixtures but it's so hard to justify double the price of a new MAC250 Krypton. For the money I could get used MAC2000's. I think there's a huge price gap that the Platinum series filled. If they were reliable then we'd actually have a great product...

I am planning on renting 4 Sharpies in March, looking forward to trying Clay Paky for the first time.


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## TimMiller (Dec 27, 2011)

I first have to say this.... It does not matter what moving light you buy; elation, clay paky, Highend, Martin, Coemar, vari light, etc. motors and driver chips will go out. I keeps all brands on the shelf at all times though some are interchangable. Clay pakys are incredible lights and you will love them but you get what you pay for and I consider clay paky the Ferrari of the industry. They have started making them a little cheaper thankfully. It was hard to explain an EPROM will run 500 to almost 1000 bucks and a logic board would run close to 1200 and doesn't include the EPROM. Though they fail rarely and clay paky can repair them but in the few instances where they fried beyond repair. Also part of why clay pakys work so well is their million dollar lube (yes call for it and they will know what you are talking about) its around 80 bucks for 4 oz I believe. Clay pakys motors do last much longer than any others. In my opinion Highend fixtures are the easiest to repair. Elation and all of the others do stand behind their product. I suggest you keep some parts on hand to keep the stress level down.


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## bishopthomas (Dec 27, 2011)

I understand that things go wrong. But to have a 100% failure rate is unacceptable. It worked perfectly when I shipped it (in the original box) and now the gobo wheel isn't working? Unacceptable for a unit that is supposed to be built for life on the road.

I now have lots of parts on hand for Mac250's, 2 broken units worth of parts.


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## hobbsies (Dec 27, 2011)

When I worked at a rental shop in chicago, elation demo lights would be shipped to us via ups and would come broken ALL THE TIME. I think in the 5 months I was there, 3 of their demo fixtures came broken. I'm willing to bet it's the delivery service throwing boxes around, more than it's elation failing.

I've personally used Elation Designspot 250's for the last 3 years now at a local theatre in chicago where I'm the ME, and I have yet to have any problems with them. If anyone ever asks me what mover brand is good, I usually tell them Martin or Elation, simply because I've never had any issues with any of their units, other than the demo units that the shipping company destroyed.


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## LDwiggs30 (Dec 27, 2011)

Be careful about just going with the highest-price fixture to ensure you won't have any issues. I've run Elation 250's for 5 years with little issues, and own a number of 5R Pro's that I prefer over Mac 7's. For the money, High End and Varilite are the best deal IMO. However, I have run Clay Paky and Martin and had issues with those as well. It's just a matter of happenstance most of the time. Sometimes you get a unit at the end of it's motor life or chip life. Nothing you can do. For me, the cost of a fixture is usually a good indicator of the optics, lamp, and motor quality. Low-cost lights have unresponsive steppers, higher-end lights have advanced optics. Be careful with the Chinese knockoffs, I've had to re-wire a few items in the past where I was trying to save money.


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## FMEng (Dec 27, 2011)

TimMiller said:


> I first have to say this.... It does not matter what moving light you buy; elation, clay paky, Highend, Martin, Coemar, vari light, etc. motors and driver chips will go out. I keeps all brands on the shelf at all times though some are interchangable. Clay pakys are incredible lights and you will love them but you get what you pay for and I consider clay paky the Ferrari of the industry. They have started making them a little cheaper thankfully. It was hard to explain an EPROM will run 500 to almost 1000 bucks and a logic board would run close to 1200 and doesn't include the EPROM. Though they fail rarely and clay paky can repair them but in the few instances where they fried beyond repair. Also part of why clay pakys work so well is their million dollar lube (yes call for it and they will know what you are talking about) its around 80 bucks for 4 oz I believe. Clay pakys motors do last much longer than any others. In my opinion Highend fixtures are the easiest to repair. Elation and all of the others do stand behind their product. I suggest you keep some parts on hand to keep the stress level down.


 
As an electronics engineer, losing chips and EPROMs regularly doesn't sound right. There are only two reasons that should be happening: insufficient cooling or bad power. I would be investing in some serious spike and surge protection for all power feeds to those units. Checking fans on them should be a daily exercise. 

Dying fans will usually drop hints that the end is near with bearing noises. I change more fans on expensive broadcast equipment than any other component, but it prevents more costly failures of other items.

Paying $500 for a chip that costs them at most $50 to produce is robbery. They got paid for writing the code when you bought the light and they shouldn't get paid twice for it. If you regularly lose EPROM chips, it would be worth your money to by the hardware/software to copy and burn it yourself.


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## len (Dec 27, 2011)

Sometimes there's just a bad batch. The guy I rent movers from got a new shipment. Not one of them had a single fuse in the fixture. How does that happen? 

When I worked at one shop, they had a number of Mac 550. Every time they came back, at least 1 was broken, and more often, 2 or 3. Same with a batch of Clay Paky fixtures they bought. Yet everyone else in Chicago who had Mac 550 or those CP 575 (I forgot the exact model #) said they were the most dependable products in the shop. 

At that company, the Entours (I think they had like 36 of them) NEVER failed. Except for one unit, which we never sent out because it would often have some error message on site. Sometimes the error didn't matter, but we tried not to send it whenever possible. Never happened at the shop, just on site.

I don't know why some units fail when others that came off the same line are relatively bulletproof, but it seems to be a semi-universal issue in the industry.


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## TimMiller (Dec 28, 2011)

FMEng said:


> As an electronics engineer, losing chips and EPROMs regularly doesn't sound right. There are only two reasons that should be happening: insufficient cooling or bad power. I would be investing in some serious spike and surge protection for all power feeds to those units. Checking fans on them should be a daily exercise.
> 
> Dying fans will usually drop hints that the end is near with bearing noises. I change more fans on expensive broadcast equipment than any other component, but it prevents more costly failures of other items.
> 
> Paying $500 for a chip that costs them at most $50 to produce is robbery. They got paid for writing the code when you bought the light and they shouldn't get paid twice for it. If you regularly lose EPROM chips, it would be worth your money to by the hardware/software to copy and burn it yourself.



Tried copying it and they locked it. The units had over 10 hard years of life on the road. Also a color blind union electrician who swapped the blue and green legs on the distro didn't help anything either.


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## lightingguy1 (Dec 28, 2011)

hobbsies]When I worked at a rental shop in chicago said:


> Also a color blind union electrician who swapped the blue and green legs on the distro didn't help anything either.


 
Ouch. That is almost as bad as hiring a color blind LD for a nationally touring production!


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## porkchop (Dec 28, 2011)

FMEng said:


> As an electronics engineer, losing chips and EPROMs regularly doesn't sound right. There are only two reasons that should be happening: insufficient cooling or bad power. I would be investing in some serious spike and surge protection for all power feeds to those units. Checking fans on them should be a daily exercise.
> 
> Dying fans will usually drop hints that the end is near with bearing noises. I change more fans on expensive broadcast equipment than any other component, but it prevents more costly failures of other items.
> 
> Paying $500 for a chip that costs them at most $50 to produce is robbery. They got paid for writing the code when you bought the light and they shouldn't get paid twice for it. If you regularly lose EPROM chips, it would be worth your money to by the hardware/software to copy and burn it yourself.


 
Parts are where the money is at, it's the same in any industry. Moving lights, cars, home appliances, etc... all of them have huge profit margins on parts so that the initial product can be sold at a more "reasonable" price. $500 is highway robbery, but that's what they're charging because they're the only one that sells them. I don't see any high end manufacture selling the necessary information to make your own chips or cards.

Also I'm not sure of your moving light experience, but daily checking of fans would be difficult and in many situations impossible to do reasonably. Even some 575W units can have 8 or more fans in them. Many of which are either tiny or just plain hard to get to without the unit out of service and on a work bench. Add to that the fact that moving lights are becoming more and more common and are used in larger numbers all the time. And it becomes impossible to check all the fans in every unit daily, or at least impossible to do without a much large staff and/or time commitment to pay for. I was on a show with over 100 units. There where 6 of us and with all of our other responsibilities it was a huge task to just keep all of the units operational. I'll agree with you that heat is a killer, but that's why you need to look for fixtures that are made to run dirty and with components that aren't running at 100%. That's what I think Clay Paky's do and that's why I'm really happy the company I work for keeps buying them.

Also to throw another pitch out for CP that's relative to shipping the fixtures. We just finished an international tour where the roads in the area where so bad they wouldn't let us travel by bus for our own safety. Our props, work boxes, and even truss had tons of damage to them and we sent a lot of stuff back to the manufactures for repair. The worst that happened to our lights (that traveled in the supplied foam inserts in their cases) was some broken outer plastics and cracked lamps. Even when double stacked cases fell over the lights would come out still operational. When you're in this kind of situation where your units are being shipped and moved around constantly reliable design is really important.


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## bishopthomas (Dec 29, 2011)

porkchop said:


> When you're in this kind of situation where your units are being shipped and moved around constantly reliable design is really important.


 
This sentence really sums up the entire reason I started this thread.


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## RandallCook (Feb 9, 2012)

Well, this thread makes me think twice... again!

I just received four used HES SS 575 CMY fixtures. Two CMY models and two CMY Zoom models. All four are model year 2000. I was expecting the two Zoom models to be 2004 models. Granted, they are all old and are used, BUT they were sold to me as being in good working order. Upon arrival, none of them were in good working order. I had to spend considerable time with them just to get two of them to function enough to "get by" at a show. All four will be returned. They require entirely too much work and repairs to trust taking out almost every weekend. I had such high hopes of them being road worthy. Maybe I just got a raw deal.
I started considering getting new Elation PS-5RPros in their place since I paid nearly the same for them! Now I'm reading this thread and I do not know which fixture I should even consider at this point.
I need the Zoom feature. I need comparable lighting of a 575. I need to plug it in a standard edison socket. I need it road worthy without a repair bill out of the box/case. I need them in dual or quad road cases.


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## SteveB (Feb 9, 2012)

RandallCook said:


> Well, this thread makes me think twice... again!
> 
> I just received four used HES SS 575 CMY fixtures. Two CMY models and two CMY Zoom models. All four are model year 2000. I was expecting the two Zoom models to be 2004 models. Granted, they are all old and are used, BUT they were sold to me as being in good working order. Upon arrival, none of them were in good working order. I had to spend considerable time with them just to get two of them to function enough to "get by" at a show. All four will be returned. They require entirely too much work and repairs to trust taking out almost every weekend. I had such high hopes of them being road worthy. Maybe I just got a raw deal.
> I started considering getting new Elation PS-5RPros in their place since I paid nearly the same for them! Now I'm reading this thread and I do not know which fixture I should even consider at this point.
> I need the Zoom feature. I need comparable lighting of a 575. I need to plug it in a standard edison socket. I need it road worthy without a repair bill out of the box/case. I need them in dual or quad road cases.



MAC 700 or a VL2500.

Both work horses of the industry. 120v.


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## Pie4Weebl (Feb 9, 2012)

or a VL 440, if you want to buy something more current that will last!


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## soundlight (Feb 9, 2012)

I second the suggestion for VL440s. We had them in the shop for a demo recently and they're great fixtures. Nice and compact, too.


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## shiben (Feb 9, 2012)

soundlight said:


> I second the suggestion for VL440s. We had them in the shop for a demo recently and they're great fixtures. Nice and compact, too.


 
Shop I was at recently had a couple of these guys out, really nice looking units.


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## ejsandstrom (Feb 11, 2012)

I bought 4 P5Rs just under a year ago. 
With in 6 months they all had an issue of one sort or another. Fan Noise, wandering gobo wheels, loud screeching noise. 

The last straw was when one started freaking out during a Christmas service. 

I sent them in for service. They came back several weeks later, worse than I sent them out. 

I was dreading the fight that would ensue. I was put in contact with Elation and they immediately sent out new replacements. I was floored. 

Everyone's equipment WILL fail but its how they make it right that makes the difference. I will continue to buy Elation products because they took care of me. 

Now don't even get me started on Chauvet, and how they didn't ship replacements for 6 months.


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## Esoteric (Feb 12, 2012)

I have probably 150-200 in clients hands at the moment between all the Platinum Series and I have had exactly 2 bad units. Both with the same client (the original unit was bad, and then the replacement was bad, the replacement for the replacement worked great though with no problems since). To me that is an acceptable failure rate. In fact Bishops units were the first ones that I had heard of having significant problems.

I love Varilite but they are not immune to problems. I shipped an order of 12 VL1500 and all 12 arrived non-functioning.

Not comparing Elation to Varilite by any means. Just saying.

Mike


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## ZDurler88 (Feb 12, 2012)

In our college theater, we have 3 VL1000's which work very well. Their production has been discontinued, but I would recommend Vari-Lite. They seem to be on their game.


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## bishopthomas (Feb 13, 2012)

Esoteric said:


> I have probably 150-200 in clients hands at the moment between all the Platinum Series and I have had exactly 2 bad units. Both with the same client (the original unit was bad, and then the replacement was bad, the replacement for the replacement worked great though with no problems since). To me that is an acceptable failure rate. In fact Bishops units were the first ones that I had heard of having significant problems.



Are you sure you just haven't heard of them going bad? Are they installed or mobile? I bought mine when they first came out, finally found some when everyone was backordered for months. Maybe they're better now. Everyone keeps saying "weeks" when referring to Elation's repair service. This in and of itself is unacceptable to me, much less the reason why the lights are there in the first place.


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## soundlight (Feb 13, 2012)

Weeks is pretty standard in my experience for service repairs with most companies, even higher end professional companies. Unless it's bad out of box, in which case I can expect a part overnighted if necessary from any of the major companies (that's where there's a difference). Had that happen with a V*L once, the control card was giving me a small error on tilt on a new unit (only time that I've EVER heard of any sort of BoB issue on a VL), got a new control card sent out next day, they didn't need to receive the bad part before they sent out the replacement.

I think that the Platinum series is hugely hit or miss. I've heard of 50% bad out of box on six fixtures (PS5R Pros) (so three out of six bad), but then once those fixtures were fixed (tech consolidated all six issues in to one fixture and sent that one back after the replacement unit came in), I haven't heard of any issues since. They're installed in a venue. From what I saw with those fixtures in seeing the issues firsthand, the manufacturing tolerances are very, very, very wide. So it's luck of the draw. If you get fixtures where all of the stuff lines up, great, you're set. If some of the wide tolerances get the better of the fixture, you can have all sorts of issues from DOA driver boards (bad solder, I think) to gears rubbing on lens assemblies, to color mixing flags rubbing together, to gobo wheel motors failing, to prisms not lining up right, to pan or tilt intermittent dropouts, to any number of other issues that I've heard of with these fixtures.

So it's really luck of the draw. Get a good batch where the machines were tuned up well? No problems. Get fixtures where you have tolerance issues all over? Good luck getting them past a week of operation in complete working condition.


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## Esoteric (Feb 16, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> Are you sure you just haven't heard of them going bad? Are they installed or mobile? I bought mine when they first came out, finally found some when everyone was backordered for months. Maybe they're better now. Everyone keeps saying "weeks" when referring to Elation's repair service. This in and of itself is unacceptable to me, much less the reason why the lights are there in the first place.



I follow up with all my clients on a regular (monthly) basis. I probably would have heard if they were bad. They are all installs. None on the road.

The ones that had to be replaced got new units inside of a week.


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## bishopthomas (Feb 16, 2012)

Well, I'm happy to hear that.


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## Esoteric (Feb 17, 2012)

bishopthomas said:


> Well, I'm happy to hear that.



I am sorry yours are giving you trouble.


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## bishopthomas (Nov 14, 2013)

Hey, everybody. Just wanted to give a quick update. Last year I ended up selling all of my Platinum Spots except for one that I needed to do a minor repair on. While I was searching for what I was going to replace it with I started using the single one again and it made me realize how nice of a light it is, when it works. A couple of months later Sandy hit and I ended up accidentally buying a damaged Platinum Spot on eBay. The seller said that it sat in "inches of water" for several days. I got it for almost nothing and I was okay with using it for parts if that's what it came down to. It came in, had some corrosion that I cleaned, a couple of the moving parts inside (I believe the focus and prism) weren't sliding freely. So I took it apart, cleaned it, and I've been using it since. I actually haven't had a single problem with either of the two I still have since that time. They're such a good light and I was really lost about what I was going to replace them with. In the last year or so I've gotten used to them but CMY and zoom were key features that they don't have that I really missed. 

A few days ago I was trying to rent 4 more Platinum Spots for a gig and couldn't find them anywhere. Nor could the Elation rep... It was completely frustrating so I decided I was going to have to be self sufficient and keep buying more. So today I was just browsing eBay to see if there were any more that had popped up, especially "as is," when I started thinking about the 5R Pro. It's exactly what I need: The Platinum Spot 5R with the missing CMY and zoom (plus built in wireless DMX and DC powered menu). Those NEVER show up on eBay and today was no different. I have a buddy who is an Elation dealer so I just shot him a text to see what the price would be for the 5R Pro, knowing that I would probably need to sell two 5R's to pay for a single Pro. The number he came back with was so shocking I told him to just go ahead and place the order (before Elation figures out that they've screwed up). So I would hope that by this time tomorrow night they'll be on a truck on its way to my house. And I'll be figuring out how I'm going to pay for them! 

I'm REALLY hoping to not have any more problems with the Platinum series. I've used their beams, they're great, and I'd love to get a few at some point. I want to have at least 6 of the Pros in the following year. The good thing is, because I'm buying them new if there's anything wrong they're going right back. Although, that's usually worse than me spending the time to fix them myself. Hopefully within about a week to 10 days I can report back here with good news about how Elation is amazing and they make such a quality product . . . .


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## np18358 (Jul 7, 2015)

I was just doing a little bit of research on the Elation Platinum series when I came across this, and I wanted to bring the thread back to ask if Bishop you or anyone else has had any more positive or negative experiences with the platinums. I am looking specifically at the 15r pro for an install at a church, and the zoom, CMY mixing, wireless dmx, gobos, and punch really stood out as the only product in the price range that had these features. Would the Chauvet RH1 Hybrid be a better choice? Is there anything else in this price range to consider?


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## soundlight (Jul 7, 2015)

Those are two very different lights. The RH1 is my favorite new fixture after seeing it in person - but it doesn't zoom as wide as the PS15R Pro, and it doesn't have CMY. On the other hand, the PS15R Pro doesn't go nearly as narrow for a beam as the RH1, and doesn't have the prism capabilities of the RH1. I'm still anti platinum spots because of the laughable optics train that doesn't allow you to layer two effects at all. Want to use an iris on top of a gobo? You will be surprised with how ugly Elation is able to make this effect look. If you want something with CMY and zoom look at the High End Solaspot Pro CMY LED. If you're willing to look at used units, you can probably find some closer to the price of the PS15R Pro. And you won't have to buy those expensive 15R lamps.


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## bishopthomas (Aug 20, 2015)

Hey there. Sorry, I've been off CB for a while. I don't remember when I left off, but... I have a pair of broken Platinum Spots sitting in my shop right now that will probably be a while before I get to. And I have a pair of Platinum Wash 16RPros. I've only used these a handful of times, but they've been exactly what I've been looking for in a light. SUPER bright. Comparable to 700 watt fixtures easily. CMY and Zoom are a must for me in any kind of pro end moving light. And the frost filter is my favorite thing about all of the Platinum series. 

So, I'm still torn between loving and hating these lights. Since they're going in an install you might not have any issues. I've been happy with the 16R's.


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## Pie4Weebl (Aug 20, 2015)

Hey Dude, welcome back!


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