# Rigging hardware from Lowes?



## LrnJ (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm a senior and a major player in my high school's theater program. For my senior project I am stepping into a realm I have never been before... rigging. It's my job to get everything as safe as possible. We've never really been too careful with how we've flown set pieces before and I have the feeling we've been lucky that we have avoided catastrophe. 

We usually fly our sets with 1/8" wire rope, with a WLL of 340lbs. We use wire rope clips from Lowes, no thimbles, no turnbuckles. I'm almost positive the wire rope clips are not to be used for overhead lifting. Yikes! D:

This year we are flying two large panels of walls/windows. One is going to be about 500lbs and the other will be closer to 250lbs. I know we should use the 1:8 ratio and that the wire rope clips will only maintain 80% of the WLL of the rope. Would you say that we should definitely invest in a whole new set of hardware?

I've recommended 3/16" wire rope, drop forged galvanized wire rope clips, and AN type zinc plated thimbles. Can we go without turnbuckles? And should we swear off Lowes as a resource for rigging hardware?

Any feedback is appreciated! Thank you!


----------



## derekleffew (Feb 3, 2010)

CB's Safety Policy:

> The members of ControlBooth, in a effort to police themselves, have evolved the following: No discussion of "how-to" of rigging, pyrotechnics, human flight, stunt falls, weapons and electrical will be permitted. Our stock answer to these questions is always "Consult a qualified professional."




LrnJ said:


> ...And should we swear off Lowes as a resource for rigging hardware? ...



This is the only question of yours we can unequivocally answer. Don't buy rigging hardware at Lowe's. Try one of the vendors mentioned in this thread:Where do you buy your rigging supplies?.


----------



## LrnJ (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm new here, so thank you for letting me know.


----------



## Footer (Feb 4, 2010)

Any rigging equiptment you buy at lowes is designed to keep a boat secured to a dock, not have a 500# piece held over your head. Give a call to your local college theatre dept. and ask for some help. It would not suprise me if they have a Jr. or Sr. student that could come over and talk you through what you need to know and help you get your piece up.


----------



## Morpheus (Feb 4, 2010)

Footer said:


> Any rigging equiptment you buy at lowes is designed to keep a boat secured to a dock, not have a 500# piece held over your head. Give a call to your local college theatre dept. and ask for some help. It would not suprise me if they have a Jr. or Sr. student that could come over and talk you through what you need to know and help you get your piece up.



Yea. Is it also true that Vertical load limits are different than Horizontal load limits? Or is it just a difference in safety calculations?


----------



## Chris15 (Feb 4, 2010)

Morpheus said:


> Yea. Is it also true that Vertical load limits are different than Horizontal load limits? Or is it just a difference in safety calculations?



Yes, there is this inconvenient thing called gravity... Everything is about force, not mass...


----------



## SHARYNF (Feb 4, 2010)

It really is a bit more complicated than that. Basically it comes down primarily to the design of the eye bolt

Here is a link for a more in depth discussion

http://redigitaleditions.com/Olive/...pageno=MjA.&entity=QXIwMjAwMQ..&view=ZW50aXR5

The problem when you go to Lowes is that the Eyebolts are simply shown based on size so there is no loading etc.

I would have to disagree re Rigging designed for boats. Remember most of the work on rigging all originated in marine applications, and rigging on fishing boats and sail boats can be just a complex and subject to careful design for theaters.


Sharyn


----------



## MPowers (Feb 4, 2010)

First, just as others have said, do not buy your overhead rigging components from Lowe's, Home Depot, et. al. The biggest concern on the store's plate, is liability. The hardware may list a WLL of X pounds but if you lift 1/100th that overhead, the warenty is out the window. "Not For Overhead Lifting" "Do Not Use To lift People or Loads Over People" . Because they are no longer liable, they have little or no impetus to demand quality control beyond the minimum. That means the components are of unreliable product control. One shackle may hold 110% of its rated load, the next on in the bin might hold 50%, and there's no way to tell. Components from a rigging supplier cost a touch more, but they are factory tested and rated for overhead use.

Someone mentioned "...it comes down primarily to the design of the eye bolt" and posted a link to a very good article Well, ..... actually it doesn't. Eye bolts are probably the least common piece of hardware used on a conventional stage. Lots of shackles, turnbuckles, wire roope clips, nico press fittings, proof coil chain, Top hanger irons, bottom hanger irons, etc., but very few eye bolts. Lots of eye bolts are used in arena rigging, general construction and steel work. My major use of eye bolts is to secure loads to haul to the grid when installing a rigging system. An example woud be the I-beams lifted to install the line shaft winches at McKinley School. Check the pics.
Picasa Web Albums - mptecdir - McKinley Midd...

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc., Des Moines, Iowa, Central Lighting & Equipment


----------



## SHARYNF (Feb 4, 2010)

While I agree that eye bolts are not the most common in a typical professional theater, if you look at what is the most common incorrectly used, I think eye bolts moves up if not to the top but near the top of the list with regard to INEXPERIENCED users. Your typical inexperienced set builder who just wants to fly a set piece, goes out to the local hardware store, buys some eye bolts and goes from there. They are not likely to know about top and bottom hanger irons, and are very unlikely to find them at the local Lowes/Hd so of they buy them or have them they are more likely to have been bought from a rigging supplier. 


As always different folks have different experiences in what they have observed. The bottom line is when you buy stuff at Lowes/HD etc you have no idea of the quality of what you are getting

Sharyn


----------



## LrnJ (Feb 5, 2010)

Well I have convinced my teacher to invest in all new equiptment. The last thing I am figuring out is which peice will be best used to attach the line to the set. Any favorites amung eye bolts, hanging plates, or swivel hoist rings? I found these and I'm curious if they will do the job...
http://www.chicagohardware.com/catalog/23_hoist.pdf


----------



## SHARYNF (Feb 5, 2010)

Depends on the set design, but here is typical hardware

Rosco US : Hardware : Hanger Irons, Rings & Screws

Sharyn


----------



## MPowers (Feb 5, 2010)

The Chicago Hardware is great stuff, but for the most part a bit of over kill (and over priced) for your needs. 

There several ways to attach a line to a scenic unit. Most common are Top Hanger Irons
Scenic Flat & Platform Hardware from Rose Brand
or Bottom hanger Irons with a Keeper Plate or Keeper Plate Stubby at the top of the unit to guide the cable.
Scenic Flat & Platform Hardware from Rose Brand
Scenic Flat & Platform Hardware from Rose Brand
Note that top hanger irons and all keeper plates must be attached with through bolts, NOT screws. These hardware items are availabel from Rose brand , BMI supply, Mutual Hardware, amoung others. 

One general hanging proceedure would be as follows.
3/16 proof coil chain 36" attached to 1/8 GAC with a Thimble and 2 crosby clips, (never saddle a dead horse), 3-1/4 turnback 4.5 ft lbs torque on the nuts, work back and forth on the nuts so they are tightened eually , The other end of the cable is attached to the D ring on the hanger iron with a thimble and two clips. You may choose to put a turn buckle at the lower end to ease adjustment and trim. If so, use a 3/8x6" J&J rated turn buckle. Don't forget to mouse the turn buckle after final trim.

1/8" cable will handle 200 pound per point with a 8-1 design factor and derated to 80% for the wire rope clip connections. Calculate the weight of the scenic unit and use the appropriate number of lift lines to support the weight. Of course use at least two lines, even on a ten pound unit. 

Hope this helps, if you have any questions, feel free to contact me directly. [email protected]. 

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger - Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment Inc. Des Moines, Iowa, Central Lighting & Equipment


----------



## ship (Feb 7, 2010)

LrnJ said:


> Well I have convinced my teacher to invest in all new equiptment. The last thing I am figuring out is which peice will be best used to attach the line to the set. Any favorites amung eye bolts, hanging plates, or swivel hoist rings? I found these and I'm curious if they will do the job...
> http://www.chicagohardware.com/catalog/23_hoist.pdf



Buy a copy of "Stage Rigging Handbook". Very useful book that will explain lots like SWL for theater use as different than WLL for the industry. Believe I remember 7x19 GAC as rated for 280# SWL.

That's the wire rope itself. A Mailiable wire rope clip as long as you don't saddle a dead horse and have the required amount of them, drops the origional SWL down to 60% of it. A drop forged wire rope clip with the proper torque and the above saddling and number of them only to 80% of the wire rope SWL. Nicopress sleeves are preferred overall and where ever possible - go/no-go gauged sleeves.

Thimble everything.

Assuming we are talking about 1/8" wire rope shives from Lowes' above, National if the brand does list WLL or breaking strength (SWL is 50% of that) limits for the shives and as long as at least 2" ID for minimum bending radiai of the wire rope... than it's a question of if they are not rated for overhead rigging you don't get to use them. But also 2" is the minimum bending dia. The tighter the shiv bend, the harder to pull the load. Best keep such things for idler or mule blocks if necessary. Also, such pulleys don't swivel which gets into difficulties. Also the bearings or bronze sleeving on them isn't very friction free under load. For a spot line in say flying in a chandileer or bird or something perhaps but I would avoid such shives otherwise. 

If rope pulleys swivel or non-swivel used with wire rope, same above with the not rated, bearings and also given normally a rope pulley is for 1/4" or larger rope dependant on size, it won't under load properly support the wire rope and could damage it by flatening it. The wire rope under use will also dig into the soft bronze or brass shiv with use and weight.

Eyebolts other than drop forged (I prefer ones with a shoulder) should be avoided. Bent eye bolts are not designed for dynamic loads and are often used improperly.

Shackles from Lowes, if you save your recipt, find out who made them and verify their rating for overhead lifting, such a thing should be fine. For the most part the same as any other galvanized screw pin anchor sackle. Get a file going with all of your recipts or copies of them along with the specifications of the equipment used. Could be useful later. As long as the shackle is rated for the purpose and you use SWL for theater, not WLL, and mouse them off, all is ok I think. You will pay more at a home cener and do more leg work in verifying compliance but all should be ok.

Same with turnbuckles, I prefer and unless a really really light loadwould only use drop forged. Of a turnbuckle I don't even accept drop forged galvanized turnbuckles. I don't like the toleranes of galvanized turnbuckles when it comes to thread class of fit.

In general from eye bolt to turnbuckle etc, the galvanized coating makes for a slightly larger screw size which won't fit a standard nut, and on a turn buckle there is not much surface area of the threads other than the tips of the threads touching. Been boned once by galvanized drop forged shoulder eyebolts when I got to a jobsite and my nylock nuts wouldn't fit.

Don't use quick links for rigging also. Not rated for overhead rigging either. 

For attachment to the set, I'm a big fan of hanging irons at the bottom and D-Rings at the top. Lift from the bottom not the top. Unless your top rail is really really reinforced for a top rig any shock load could rip the top rail right off your scenery. Don't forget safety stops for what's rigged either. A runaway on a single purchase fly system is incorrect use of the fly system, a run away on a spot line system as described is one hand hold away. Seen stuff done with various ascenders or boat type equipment if not a tie off at maximum travel at the center of a rope cleat or other place, but only in supplementing counterweight or mechanical advantage. Don't want to be relying on some big guy with gloves or a few people to maintain the set under control. Supervision is required for rigging up a spot line.

About covers it in adding further comment to parts I think, & by the way this is a touchy subject. Cannot recommend the how to and getting that someone from the local college or a production house on site to supervise is really recommended also. Too bad, I made some awseome horizotal flown wire rope guided clue blocks in the past. It's a cool technique for if you have some run of ceiling space not used anywhere or above the grid so as not to tie up floor space or for low ceiling heights.


----------



## ship (Feb 8, 2010)

P.S. further thought about hanging irons such as available from Rosco and many other places. Can't just wood screw them in, a certain percentage have to be thru-bolted.

This type of detail I learned in High School and never forgot. A shame that not all schools are created equal or all programs are not the same. For the first two years of high school in my case, a local carpenter ran the tech program. Believe he was trained at the school by past theater teachers that retired and went to college but didn't have a teacher's certificate or perhaps didn't finish college. Designed great sets and taught us great techniques. Was the hart and soul of the stag tech program. Costumes, light and sound were run by others.

He got fired in my Junior year in favor of a new Chemistry teacher that had appairently taken a stagecraft course at some point during college thus was more qualified. She designed realy crappy sets and had little to no knowledge about stagecraft. I found myself no doubt in a similar situation to where you are after the theater teacher quit - in part to our helping inspire her to do so. I was TD for the last show of the season. Luckily it was in the secondary lunch room that had a nominal dinner theater type stage. Luckily because while I was trained and ran the fly sysem for our I think 32 lineset single purchase main stage... I wasn't ready or completely trained for it. 

I was fairly well trained, but my real start followed the next year when a teacher with a Masters in theater and a minor in English became a substitute theater at the school and the TD for the theater. Just happens also that her husband was the Master Rigger at Chicago Scenic Studios, so even if she was qualified, he normally came in to supervise and further tech. Even brought his crews with him at times if we were behind or building something really complex. 

She later did get a theater tech class a the school and got us further involved with both visiting and helping other schools and seeing their shows. Great teacher, one of my senior class took over for her when she retired.

Was recently able to come in as an industry type to help on a windmill project for our local high school, still waiting on a call from the theater dpt. The students loved help and advisement from industry people and we loved it also. Too bad I cannot become a teacher or do the after school tech. Think I would enjoy it. Seek out tech help and trainin within the rules of the school of course. At least the local college if asked should help.


----------



## gafftaper (Feb 8, 2010)

All good advice here. I want to emphasize three points. Call your local university. I bet there is either a student or staff member who would be willing to stop by for an hour or two and teach you a few things. We tend to like safety and are willing to give a little free time in order to make sure kids don't get killed. 

Second follow that link to rigging supply stores. Spend some time just familiarizing yourself with what's available on the websites like Sapsis and Fehr Bros. 

Third buy and read the Stage Rigging Hand book! The new edition is about $55. But you can get a used copy of Harry Donovan's book... but it'll cost you $100 so put it on next year's Christmas gift list.


----------

