# Purchasing a Haze Machine



## JoeColdwell (May 8, 2013)

I run an 800 seat theater, and it is becomming aparent that we need a Hazer.

I've been doing a lot of research, and I've narrowed it down to 4 machines. I'd like to spend under $1,000.00 but If it's not going to fill my space, it isn't worth the investment.

The options I'm looking at:

Le Maitre Neutron XS Hazer $975.00Radiance Hazer $1200Haze Base, Base Hazer Pro $2500DF-50 Diffusion Hazer $3000Is the XS powerful enough to fill an 800 seat theater? Has anyone used it? What are your thoughts?


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## Les (May 8, 2013)

I have personally used the Neutron XS and the Base Hazer Pro. Both good machines, and both would fill your venue quite nicely. 

The Base Hazer Pro uses a water based fluid and the machine is completely self-contained. Mounted in a roadcase, it can be turned every which-way during transport without spilling, even with a full tank. It does have a heater core (as opposed to an "oil cracker" like the DF-50, which produces its haze through compression) but it warms up very quickly (~1-2 min) and can produce effects ranging from a light haze to a thick fog. I hazed a small arena for an aerial laser show in less than an hour. 

The Neutron XS also appears to be water based (according to its fluid's MSDS), but I don't remember much of the functionality beyond that. As far as I recall (its been a few years), it was a quick startup but with minimal settings. I have read a few posts over the years about people having problems with these units, but they have been out a while, so that tends to be expected over newer arrivals such as the Base Hazer. I used this machine for a run of Les Miserables in a good-sized high school auditorium (probably 1,250 seats with balcony) and it kept up quite well. It was a rental, so I can't speak for long term reliability. We did have an instance where the machine wouldn't make haze and we discovered that the dip tube had come out of the fluid reservoir. That was fixed easily, though. 

The DF-50 is legendary in the industry but keep in mind that it uses oil based haze fluid, which can leave a difficult-to-clean residue on surfaces. This generally happens after long, extended runs. I doubt you'd have many issues if you only pull it out a few times a year. I would wager to guess that an 800-seat house would be a cakewalk for this unit, too. 

Can't comment on the Radiance hazer, but I have heard good things. Sounds like you have some good contenders.


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## SteveB (May 8, 2013)

I have an older LeMaitre Neutron XS (8 years old ?) with the so-called DMX option, which is a stand-alone device. I've been mostly un-happy with the LeMaitre, finding it to be unreliable. We actually have 2 in our building, the 2nd owned by our Theater Dept., who likewise find it to be very unreliable and a pain to get serviced.

Which is why I purchased a DF50 the next time I had money to burn. The DF50 is rock solid if noisy, but runs and runs. Great haze, worth the money.


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## danTt (May 8, 2013)

The DF-50 is the nicest on the list. Haze hangs forever, and gives you the best look. The radiance is nice, but you'll probably find yourself running it constantly at a high volume to maintain a good haze level. Very easy to maintence, and the fluid is water based so it's less disgusting to work on than the DF-50. Haven't used the other hazers, but I suspect theres a reason for that ..


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## JohnD (May 9, 2013)

You have probably covered this in your research, but have you addressed the issue of hazers/foggers and fire alarm sensors? Also does you local AHJ have any issues with this.


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## derekleffew (May 9, 2013)

Les said:


> ... The DF-50 is legendary in the industry but keep in mind that it uses oil based haze fluid, ...


DF-50 Diffusion fliud.pdf is also available in Oil-Less.pdf. The water-based doesn't have nearly the hang-time of the oil-based, however, which is perhaps why most people either don't know about it or don't discuss it.

Working in a large arena, I see DF-50s 90% of the time; the other 10% is made up of Radiance and units from MDG.


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## JoeColdwell (May 9, 2013)

JohnD said:


> You have probably covered this in your research, but have you addressed the issue of hazers/foggers and fire alarm sensors? Also does you local AHJ have any issues with this.



I have covered that. I need a hazer to make the light beams from the HD studio Spots that we rent visible. I want to own it because my area does not have any hazers for rental, and I'm sure I can rent it out, plus it would be nice to have for any variety show.

Oil and Water hazers should not have any issue with fire alarms.

As far as AHJ, we erally don't have any laws or rules about hazers here. We don't have any unions in the area either. But still, I'd prefer a water based hazer anyways just too keep down on the oil film that gets all over everything.

One more question:

Do you guys know of any vendors where I could get the Base Hazer Pro for cheaper? That seems to be the one that is consistantly getting good review and fits my venue, but it is quite a bit out of my price range. I work for a school district, and we are going in with the local community theater and the choir, but we still don't have more than $1000.00 right now.... budget cuts and all.


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## JoeColdwell (May 9, 2013)

Les said:


> The Base Hazer Pro uses a water based fluid and the machine is completely self-contained... ...and can produce effects ranging from a light haze to a thick fog.



Do you mean it can create a rolling fog like a dry ice fog machine as well? Or that it can just output a really dense haze.
If it can truely Fog as well as Haze, that would make this machine the winner hands down!


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## TheaterEd (May 9, 2013)

I would talk to the folks at Mainstage Theatrical Supply in Milwaukee. They seem to have good connections. If they can't get you one for a low price, they can probably tell you who can.

Mainstage Theatrical Supply - theater lighting and dimming, theatrical curtains and rigging, stage makeup and theatre supplies


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## BillESC (May 9, 2013)

I'll vote for the Radiance considering its' cost and how sparingly it uses fluid.


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## cbrandt (May 9, 2013)

I have the most experience with the Radiance and the DF50, out of this list. 

It looks like you're not looking at the touring system for the Radiance, which alleviates the "banshee fan" that I always complain about. Provide your own fan though, since the unit itself doesn't push the haze very far. It will absolutely fill your space, but I find that the evenness of the haze isn't quite as good as the DF50. You'll be a lot more aware of the haze, and be able to see a bit difference across a beam.

The DF50 won't do that (with the oil based fluid). You'll get nice even haze in no time. They do tend to spit a bit. We built a baffle box for ours, which does an amazing job of dealing with the noise problem, and if you just put a rag in front of it, that takes care of excess fluid coming out. They do get a bit hot in there, though.


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## len (May 9, 2013)

Isn't the neutron discontinued? I thot the Radiance replaced it. 

Regardless, I've used the Radiance a lot. It can ALMOST replicate the look of a fogger at full volume. But it's better as a hazer and would be my first choice given that a DF-50 is nearly 3x your budget. The last time I bot fluid for a Radiance it was about $100 but it is pretty long lasting. 

The DF-50 is a workhorse. If you get touring shows in and they ask, saying you have a df-50 will automatically give people peace of mind. 

I don't have any experience with Haze Base.


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## JoeColdwell (May 9, 2013)

One last idea.
I have used a hazer that looked like this one once, I'm not sure if it is the same one. It worked fine, it took about 10 min. to fill my space and I had to cycle it by putting it on a dimmer set to "Full at 1%" to keep the haze at a good level. But it is way more affordable.

Amazon.com: American DJ Haze Generator: Musical Instruments


What do you think?


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## Les (May 9, 2013)

danTt said:


> Haven't used the other hazers, but I suspect theres a reason for that ..



Haze Base hasn't been in the Americas for that long, especially compared to the other guys. The Gemini Stage Lighting in my area prefers renting them out over DF-50's for whatever reason. The rental manager said he hasn't heard a single complaint about the Base Hazer. Maybe they prefer renting them because they're easier to clean when they get back or something. 


JoeColdwell said:


> Do you mean it can create a rolling fog like a dry ice fog machine as well? Or that it can just output a really dense haze.
> If it can truely Fog as well as Haze, that would make this machine the winner hands down!



It can't do low-lying fog straight from the machine since the fog would need to be chilled, but it does have the ability to create a nice, dense fog that would be perfect for running through a chiller module. 


JoeColdwell said:


> One last idea.
> I have used a hazer that looked like this one once, I'm not sure if it is the same one. It worked fine, it took about 10 min. to fill my space and I had to cycle it by putting it on a dimmer set to "Full at 1%" to keep the haze at a good level. But it is way more affordable.
> 
> Amazon.com: American DJ Haze Generator: Musical Instruments
> ...



That haze machine has been around for years. American DJ has always called it the Haze Generator, but I have seen it else where under some other (or no) name. Pretty sure ADJ had it first, but other companies started buying in on the OEM. I suspect that it's not an awful machine since I have been familiar with it for the better part of 15 years, but I have no idea what one would expect in long-term reliability. I believe this is an 'oil-cracker', using a compressor rather than heater core (not sure though -- seen this machine all over the internet, but never in the wild). It gets pretty good reviews on Amazon, and the reviewer "Rendoc" sounds like he knows what he's talking about and gives what sounds like an honest and objective review. But be aware that this is still a DJ-level machine, so YMMV.


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