# Masonite flooring issue



## Tmeche

We recently added a layer of masonite over our worn wooden deck and it looked great until the moisture returned to the area after the last arctic snap now it is bubbling in the middle of the full sheets and I was wondering if there is a way to rectify this without A) ripping it up and starting again or B) making it more screws than masonite. I am open to any and all suggestions. Please help.


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## sk8rsdad

It sounds like the masonite was laid without any expansion gaps. If so you may be able to make a shallow relief cut with a circular saw to provide the missing expansion gap.


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## MNicolai

What you're supposed to do when you install masonite like that is spray the faces of the masonite with water, then stack all of the sheets on top of each other and let them sit overnight. They will absorb the water and expand. Then the next day you install them when they're expanded so that they won't expand any larger once they're all in place.

This provides the expansion gap you're looking for. The best solution _is_ to rip up the floor and start over, using the proper technique. The alternative is to trim the sides of each panel down just slightly to create the necessary gaps. Either way, you're doing a lot of work, but it shouldn't be that difficult to unscrew the masonite panels, expand them, and then put them down again.


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## RockMoniker

I've never heard of that method. I've always left expansion gaps when laying themaso. Could you descripbe how much water you apply, both sides of a sheet? Are they immediately paintable afterwards, or do you need to let them dry for a time? 
Normally we prepaint our new floors in the shop, then lay them down onstage with gaps(using a washer or a penny or somesuch).


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## Footer

The masonite needs to be sealed first. Do a search, this has been beat to death. 

Short version is to paint BOTH sides of the maso and lay the floor using the penny or nickel method.


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## MNicolai

RockMoniker said:


> I've never heard of that method. I've always left expansion gaps when laying themaso. Could you descripbe how much water you apply, both sides of a sheet? Are they immediately paintable afterwards, or do you need to let them dry for a time?
> Normally we prepaint our new floors in the shop, then lay them down onstage with gaps(using a washer or a penny or somesuch).



You just take a spray bottle and mist each side with it. It doesn't need to be a pool of water, but enough that it saturates the masonite pretty well.

The other methods mentioned like the penny or nickel method work well too. The water technique was what our theatrical consultants suggested to us when they were building our arts center, which ended up being a moot point because the architects went ahead and laid down a CDX floor, with wide enough gaps you could almost fall through and used nails with heat-activated glue that are popping up everywhere which we're having to replace with screws.

Now the floor is held together with Bond-o to cover the cracks and gaping chasms in it. We have a special place for those architects in our hearts now. They actually admitted that when they bid the project (which was their first theatre) they sat down to drinks and started flipping through a catalog and just started pointing at stuff.


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## mixmaster

Tmeche said:


> We recently added a layer of masonite over our worn wooden deck and it looked great until the moisture returned to the area after the last arctic snap now it is bubbling in the middle of the full sheets and I was wondering if there is a way to rectify this without A) ripping it up and starting again or B) making it more screws than masonite. I am open to any and all suggestions. Please help.



Our Masonite floor bubbled due to the humidity a while back. We replaced the floor, allowing about 3/16 gap around the sheets. When that expanded and buckled our campus carpenter came back and ran a shallow cut between all the pieces to give it more expansion room. That may be your best bet right now. So we are at a gap distance of 3/16 inch plus the width of a saw blade. No problems since then.
We also used staples to tack our deck down rather than screws. And we cover the joints with Gaff tape before we painted the primer on. Gaff flexes as the Maso shifts where Bondo or other fillers can harden over time, which fills up the cracks so the boards don't have room to expand.


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## Shennon

I am currently looking into putting a new covering on our stage. The stage is covered in plywood and has been painted, sanded down, re-painted again and again over the years. I am open to any/all suggestions on what to use. The three things that I have already had suggested to me are Masonite, Halex, or a low-rising indoor/outdoor style carpet. Would love to hear from anyone with experience with these materials, or any other ideas on the subject. Thanks!


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## jglodeklights

I would not recommend low rising carpet except as something to keep in stock to place above the main floor for pathways backstage to dead sound of show shoes. 

Just plywood isn't ideal because of the grain and overall lack of smoothness. You will need a plywood subfloor of some sort, though, under Masonite.

Masonite is the standard for most flooring purposes due to being not horrendously expensive, relatively durable, being a good paint surface and providing a natural sound when walked upon. 

When purchasing the Masonite, I highly recommend ignoring 1/8" completely for reasons of durability and being able to be taken up and put back down without shooting screws completely through. Additionally, get dual tempered, meaning both sides smooth, so that when one side is just to textured or is peeling from crappy paint, you can simply flip it. Both sides should be painted prior to installation for best results in regards to expansion and bowing (remember, it is a paper based product and like paper will shrink after being wet). I recommend a using the same type of exterior primer, such as MAB SeaShore or KILZ on both sides, and then painting one side with a flat black. Again, I'm partial to MAB SeaShore. Others like the Glidden flat black. Some people like Rosco ToughPrime, I think it's ugly. You can just paint it black on both sides with black MAB SeaShore Flat Paint or equivalent. I prefer priming first. 

When installing remember to leave expansion space between boards, and counter sink each screw. Standard wood/drywall screws are fine. Don't get too long of a screw. 1 Inchers are fine.


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## Van

I greatly prefer 1/4" MDF over Masonite. the same precautions apply, expansion gaps, prepainting etc., but it does not expand as much and since it is 49x98 it winds up spanning the 4x8 sheets of ply beneath it.


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## Ric

We had our stage floor replaced/recovered 1.5 years ago, due to the masonite flooring originally having been secured with nails. The nails were constantly lifting due to the heavy floor use, especially by dancers. 
Originally the engineer suggested we go with plywood but after having that fitted and seeing the result we insisted on going back to the masonite with screws. That was a costly exercise but has given us a great floor.
Ours is tempered masonite 6.5mm thick with counter sunk screws.

Masonite Tempered - Masonite Hardboard - Building Products, MDF, Plywood & Benchtop Surface Materials - Gunnersens Australia

It was watered down before fitting to ensure that expansion wasn't an issue.
We paint it 3 monthly, or as needed, with a water based matte black plastic paint.


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## michaelburgoyne

I didn't notice any comment in this discussion regarding screw spacing, we require 1'-0" on center around the perimeter and through the center of each sheet to reduce warping. Yes, you read that correctly, (45) screws per 4x8 panel. This spacing is specific to 1/4-inch tempered Masonite with a 3/32-inch expansion gap on all sides. As noted, 1/8" Masonite should not be considered for this application.

For even greater durability we prefer 3/4" Plyron which is plywood with a factory laminated hardboard (Masonite) layer on the finished sides. The material cost is greater, and it's not available at your local big-box store, but for new construction the installation cost is less than 1/4" Masonite because you eliminate a layer of subfloor and the fasteners can be 2'-0" on center. Plyron is very stable but will be more expensive to replace when you have a damaged panel.

http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Tempered%20Plyron%20Prod%20Lit%20-%2011-07%20.pdf


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## rmartin

Our Masonite deck is twenty years old and I have never replaced a pannel.
I laid the floor myself making sure of the proper gaps between the sheets.
I did not wet the floor before laying it down, and I have never had a problem.
We had to lay a masonite floor because the stupid Architect had specified a Spruce
plank floor. Spruce is a soft wood that splinters easily and gaff tape peals up the wood.
Not a good floor for dancers in bare feet! It was a liability issue for us.
We laid down 5/8 T&G plywood over the Spruce deck, then 1/4 Masonite over that.
It is a sprung floor which is great for dance, and with the depth of wood below the
Masonite we can safely screw into the deck when we have to. The screw holes practically dissappear when screws are removed. I have probably painted this floor
fourty or more times. Great floor. No problems.


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## sully151

I thought I read somewhere that Masonite flooring was not available anymore?


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## DuckJordan

sully151 said:


> I thought I read somewhere that Masonite flooring was not available anymore?


 
I'm pretty sure it is... Considering I can go to home depot or Menards, or Lowes and pick up 30-50 4x8 sheets of maso...


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## sully151

This is where I heard Masonite was no longer available
Masonite - ControlBooth


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## DuckJordan

sully151 said:


> This is where I heard Masonite was no longer available
> Masonite - ControlBooth


 

Well... I didn't realize its a brand name but the board that they manufactured or a similar is still available. I'll try and find the technical name for it.


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## MNicolai

DuckJordan said:


> Well... I didn't realize its a brand name but the board that they manufactured or a similar is still available. I'll try and find the technical name for it.


 
Tempered Hardboard.


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## Todd9

Hi guys,

I hope you don't mind me dropping in... I don't work in theater but my fiancée wants to install a Masonite floor in a bedroom of our house. Sounds like you guys have some experience here.

Right now the floor is bare concrete and the room is 10'x12'. The plan is to cut 120 1' x 1' 1/4" Masonite squares, stain them for a leathery look and then seal them with varathane, and install them with either screws or adhesive.

Neither of us know the first thing about what we're doing. We like the look of screws in each corner but I'm worried screwing into concrete isn't a beginner level project, and as a know-nothing remodeler I'm not thrilled about boring holes into the foundation of the house. Should we stick with an adhesive instead?

Whether we go with screws or adhesive, considering we live in ultra-dry Las Vegas, we're sealing the Masonite with Varathane, and we're using 1'x1' squares, do we even need to worry about expansion at all? Gaps may be fine for theater but not for a bedroom... is it a realistic goal that we could get the floor smooth and flush?


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## Van

I think it's realistic. You might want to consider, however, laying a layer of Rosin paper or a similar product onto the floor then laying in the masonite "tiles" with a mastic of some sort. Even in Dry LV you will get moisture either wicking through , or being drawn through concrete. Remember all that water they used to make the concrete doesn't go away most of it is still there and it escapes at a constant rate for centuries. I think if you study the way a "pergo" floor is laid you'll see how this technique could work for you. Those floors essentially float on a polystyrene material.


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## mstaylor

The rosin paper is not a bad idea but it needs to be glue down with a good multi-purpose adhesive. Then glue the one foot squares down with the same glue. A 3/32 to 1/8 inch notch trowel should be used. When you lay out the room, measure it in both direction. the object is to get the same size cut on both sides. Say it is 12ft 3inches wide. That would make an 1 1/2 cut which isn't good. Add the three to twelve to get fifteen and divide that in half, that makes a 7 1/2 cut. Do the same in the other direction and chalk two reference lines to start the tile against.


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## venuetech

rmartin said:


> Architect had specified a Spruce
> plank floor.



A quartersawn spruce floor was long ago the floor to have for a stage.
but it needed to be treated properly. An old instructor of mine told me that such a floor should never be painted as that would not allow the wood to breath. on occasion the floor would need to be oiled to rejuvenate it. It would naturally heal nail holes and much of the damage from the stage screws that were in common use way back then.

once it was painted the wood could no longer heal itself.

But times have changed, a groundcloth is practically unknown, the heavy point loads of overloaded casters delamanate even today's plywood floor and one or two coats of paint go onto the floor for every production.
Today's common tape was unknown to the past


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## Jay Ashworth

Thread Archaeology...

We're about to lay new TH on the floor of our blackbox, replacing some that's about 12 years old. I don't know if the stuff the local lumberyard has in stock is dual-tempered ($14.50 for 1/4"), but I see paint-both-sides and drill-the-countersinks, and 45-screws-per-panel. I'm curious, though, since the imminent reason for the new floor is we're staging Richard Harris' Stepping Out -- which isn't really a dance show, but has a couple big tap numbers at the end -- if there is some sort of thin (like, 3-4mm), roll-out high-density foam subflooring we could put between the plywood and the masonite... and if we *should* do that?

Any opinions on that point?


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## VCTMike

We used 1/2" homasote under the maso. Seems to work very well for the few dance sessions we have and no one has brought up any issues with it.


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## Footer

Jay Ashworth said:


> Thread Archaeology...
> 
> We're about to lay new TH on the floor of our blackbox, replacing some that's about 12 years old. I don't know if the stuff the local lumberyard has in stock is dual-tempered ($14.50 for 1/4"), but I see paint-both-sides and drill-the-countersinks, and 45-screws-per-panel. I'm curious, though, since the imminent reason for the new floor is we're staging Richard Harris' Stepping Out -- which isn't really a dance show, but has a couple big tap numbers at the end -- if there is some sort of thin (like, 3-4mm), roll-out high-density foam subflooring we could put between the plywood and the masonite... and if we *should* do that?
> 
> Any opinions on that point?


Odd are your hardwood us already sprung. Also, for tap the last thing you want is a spongy floor. Go right on top of your hardwood. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## lwinters630

Tod9, you are correct, this is a tough project for your skill set. If you try this, seal all sides first. Then use a full spread adhesive designed for hardwood floors. Leave a 1/2" gap around the perimiter and cover with base and shoe.
That said, that each piece will expand, and when it shrinks back , there will be small gaps around each board. The glue acts as vapor barrier. Don't go more than a 15'x15' room. Screwing to concrete, to, me, would be a deal breaker. 

Personally, I would use a cheap vinyl plank glued down, sand and paint like your felt look you want. It will be more dimentionally stable. Go to a local owned floor store, you will get better advice than a big box.
As they say in vagas, Good Luck.


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## lwinters630

Todd9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I hope you don't mind me dropping in... I don't work in theater but my fiancée wants to install a Masonite floor in a bedroom of our house. Sounds like you guys have some experience here.
> 
> Right now the floor is bare concrete and the room is 10'x12'. The plan is to cut 120 1' x 1' 1/4" Masonite squares, stain them for a leathery look and then seal them with varathane, and install them with either screws or adhesive.
> 
> Neither of us know the first thing about what we're doing. We like the look of screws in each corner but I'm worried screwing into concrete isn't a beginner level project, and as a know-nothing remodeler I'm not thrilled about boring holes into the foundation of the house. Should we stick with an adhesive instead?
> 
> Whether we go with screws or adhesive, considering we live in ultra-dry Las Vegas, we're sealing the Masonite with Varathane, and we're using 1'x1' squares, do we even need to worry about expansion at all? Gaps may be fine for theater but not for a bedroom... is it a realistic goal that we could get the floor smooth and flush?



See my previous post. And a new thought is using a cork floor, and paint/seal to get your look.


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## Jay Ashworth

Footer said:


> Odd are your hardwood us already sprung. Also, for tap the last thing you want is a spongy floor. Go right on top of your hardwood.



Well, I wouldn't have expected "spongy" from the sort of foam I had in mind, which wasn't foam rubber, but more like ... HDPE? Is that what it's called?

But, ok; I'm sure everyone will be happier to hear that they shouldn't underlay it anyway. We'll probably have enough trouble getting the city employees who will lay it to nickel and dime the joints...


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