# Yamaha LS9 Issues



## JSFox (Feb 13, 2007)

Now that we've got a couple of months and a bunch of productions under our belts with the LS9s I thought I'd post some of the issues we've run in to.

1 - By all accounts the biggest issue is low-scale proportionality with channel ganging. If all ganged channels are in the middle of the range all works well. The problem is if one or more channels are very low (or all the way down). If you even blow on one of these all the other channels max out immediately. Towards the bottom of fader travel there needs to be a lower ratio than straight proportional. This is very much a keep the amatuers from making mistakes issue. A pro knows (ok, most times) to always use the highest fader in a gang, but non-pro's forget.

2 - No provision for inserting scenes. This has caused us a number of headaches. It really needs the ability to insert 'dot' cues such as 10.1, 10.2, etc.

3 - No way to overide global recall safe parameters. Typically we have everything safed except on/off and fader. Not having any way to overide this on a cue by cue basis has become a huge problem. For theatrical productions you really need the ability to include faders in some scenes and not in others. For example, we might ride gain on 18 singers through a number of cues, but then need to have all faders go to presets for one particular cue.

I know this isn't a PM1D, but these are the things that have stopped us from recommending this board to schools and churches.


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## Andy_Leviss (Feb 13, 2007)

JSFox said:


> 1 - By all accounts the biggest issue is low-scale proportionality with channel ganging. If all ganged channels are in the middle of the range all works well. The problem is if one or more channels are very low (or all the way down). If you even blow on one of these all the other channels max out immediately. Towards the bottom of fader travel there needs to be a lower ratio than straight proportional. This is very much a keep the amatuers from making mistakes issue. A pro knows (ok, most times) to always use the highest fader in a gang, but non-pro's forget.



But then it wouldn't be proportional. How would it scale? 


> 2 - No provision for inserting scenes. This has caused us a number of headaches. It really needs the ability to insert 'dot' cues such as 10.1, 10.2, etc.



Read pg. 138 of the manual. You can't insert "point" scenes, but you can insert/cut and paste scenes. It just shifts the scenes after where you insert/move a scene to forward by one number.


> 3 - No way to overide global recall safe parameters. Typically we have everything safed except on/off and fader. Not having any way to overide this on a cue by cue basis has become a huge problem. For theatrical productions you really need the ability to include faders in some scenes and not in others. For example, we might ride gain on 18 singers through a number of cues, but then need to have all faders go to presets for one particular cue.



Pg. 139, focus settings. It's not at all the flexibility you'd get on a more upper tier console*, as it's either all or nothing for your chosen combination, per scene, of every input fader, every output fader, every HA setting, etc. That is to say, you can't only keep a scene from recalling input channels 1-18, you need to have the same setting for every input channel. But what groups of settings are affected can be changed for each scene.

I know they're boring, but reading manuals is well worth the effort 

What drives me nuts about the LS9 and M7CL is that they were designed so entirely from the ground up to be accesible to somebody who's never used a digital console before that somebody like me, who is factory trained on the PM1D and 5D and fairly expert on most of the rest of their line, feels completely lost on the console. While it's made it easier for the beginners, it's also made the experts feel like beginners again! What the LS9 calls "focus settings" is what all the other consoles call either recall safe (on the DM series) or selective recall (on the PM series).

Then again, Yamaha loves obfuscation. On the DM's, recall safe is either global or per scene, but not both, and the same settings must be applied across all channels. On the PM's, recall safe is global, and each channel can have it's own settings. Selective recall is per scene, each channel can have it's own settings, and it can be further globally set to either let you choose "safe parameters" or "recall parameters". 

And don't get me started on how you need to remember a different keystroke to initialize nearly every single one of their consoles/put them into flash update mode. It could--and does--drive a person insane!

--A


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## JSFox (Feb 20, 2007)

Andy, thanks for your reply.

Andy_Leviss said:


> But then it wouldn't be proportional. How would it scale?


Other consoles (namely Digico) that use ganging have scalable proportionality so that they are less proportional in some situations. I believe it's based on the relative levels of the faders in the gang with the lowest being slightly less proportional.

Andy_Leviss said:


> Read pg. 138 of the manual. You can't insert "point" scenes, but you can insert/cut and paste scenes. It just shifts the scenes after where you insert/move a scene to forward by one number.


Yes, but the primary purpose of point of dot scene numbering is to prevent having to re-number the following cues. Telling a stage manager that they need to completely renumber their prompt book is a life altering experience.

Andy_Leviss said:


> Pg. 139, focus settings. It's not at all the flexibility you'd get on a more upper tier console*, as it's either all or nothing for your chosen combination, per scene, of every input fader, every output fader, every HA setting, etc. That is to say, you can't only keep a scene from recalling input channels 1-18, you need to have the same setting for every input channel. But what groups of settings are affected can be changed for each scene.


Unfortunately focus only allows selection based on major area, not anything within. EG, you cannot include faders in one scene and not in another.

Andy_Leviss said:


> I know they're boring, but reading manuals is well worth the effort
> What drives me nuts about the LS9 and M7CL is that they were designed so entirely from the ground up to be accesible to somebody who's never used a digital console before that somebody like me, who is factory trained on the PM1D and 5D and fairly expert on most of the rest of their line, feels completely lost on the console. While it's made it easier for the beginners, it's also made the experts feel like beginners again! What the LS9 calls "focus settings" is what all the other consoles call either recall safe (on the DM series) or selective recall (on the PM series).


Agree

Andy_Leviss said:


> Then again, Yamaha loves obfuscation. On the DM's, recall safe is either global or per scene, but not both, and the same settings must be applied across all channels. On the PM's, recall safe is global, and each channel can have it's own settings. Selective recall is per scene, each channel can have it's own settings, and it can be further globally set to either let you choose "safe parameters" or "recall parameters".




Andy_Leviss said:


> And don't get me started on how you need to remember a different keystroke to initialize nearly every single one of their consoles/put them into flash update mode. It could--and does--drive a person insane!
> --A


Ah, isn't insanity is a requirement for entry into this industry?


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