# ghost light ????



## Dcdjdrew

Hello all, Our theatre really needs a ghost light I was wondering if anyone has instructions for building one or a place to purchase one. thanks


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## soundlight

Attach a lamp socket to the top of a piece of conduit which is attached to a square/rectangular wooden base. Use 16/3 wire to run the power for the socket down through the conduit and out under the base. Put the connector of your choice on the other end. Make sure to use a compact flourescent bulb, because there's no filament to break when the ghost light is moved while it's hot. All of these materials can be found at your local Lowes' Home Improvement. I have no idea if Home Depot carries all of the stuff, but lowes does!


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## Van

soundlight said:


> Attach a lamp socket to the top of a piece of conduit which is attached to a square/rectangular wooden base. Use 16/3 wire to run the power for the socket down through the conduit and out under the base. Put the connector of your choice on the other end. Make sure to use a compact flourescent bulb, because there's no filament to break when the ghost light is moved while it's hot. All of these materials can be found at your local Lowes' Home Improvement. I have no idea if Home Depot carries all of the stuff, but lowes does!


 
Hey ! That's what i was going to say !


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## ship

Not to steel any thunder or intent to help but a good ghost light has been discussed before on this forum and others, especially in the past on Stagecraft, and also for the most part has a bit more detail to it. I hope the below more fleshes out what is required and or is normally traditionally done or not to be done or to be de-emphisized in concept of doing.

How to make a good Ghost Light is frought with NEC difficulties no matter how you do it - believe Altman, Strand, L&E and other companies still make a UL listed Ghost Light fixture that would be fully compliant, otherwise what is often done is just a work light or two overhead from the grid or electric is left always on. This plus the fire curtain is always closed. The modern requirement of a ghost light possibly is not as required any longer as long as the stage can be sufficiently lit from above in a perminant when not occupied sense. Means say first and third electric having something that is always on say would comply and be a lot easier to do. Just a question of wiring up the electrics for switcable power - perhaps not as easy to do but easier in the long run in labor and real safety. Look towards L&E's I believe it's the "Runt" light fixture that is a really good UL listed for this purpose work light.

In theory, one could also do a llesser wattage, very long lamp life construction type work light stand light for a ghost light and it would be fully code and stage compliant.

Conduit unless RMT is not rated as a structural free-standing device, much less any part of a lighting fixture. Neither are plumbing parts such as Sch.40 pipe and fittings as conduit. Square/Rectangular wooden bases assumes some means of mounting the conduit to that base - not aware of a electrical conduit fitting floor flange/conduit clamp base that does this. Your stand height verses weight and size of the plywood base (assuming a single layer or double layer of 3/4" plywood would also be top heavy if less than at least 20" square.) Any lumber must be painted in very minimum flame treating, much less moisture protection. Technically, it’s also against code to run any cable inside of conduit. 16/3 wire, assuming 16/3 SO as 16/3 SJ is against code to run on stage in lengths longer than 3' would have an operating temperature of 90C. Such wire might or might not be a good idea to be using in a light fixture that’s operated for long hours - dependant upon cooling and wattage. Might have to wire the lamp base with a high temperature wire and do a splice. Also no mention of grounding and I believe a GFCI receptacle even if grounded is required on stage to plug into but don’t remember for sure this. 

The concept of using a compact fluorescent lamp so the filament does not break as it’s moved about is also I believe misunderstood. The intent is to protect against knocking the lamp over and touching the hot lamp. The first part requires a heavy enough lamp base (potentially on casters) that the lamp fixture at a given height cannot without out a lot of effort knock over easily. The second part is a cage around the lamp to protect against touching the hot lamp and potentially in a beyond this concept, protecting you from broken glass should it break or fall over. Compact fluorescent lamps are more efficient and long lived than most (not all) incandescent lamps but they do get warm and they do need protection from falling over and broken glass on the stage. A recommendation if compact fluorescent lamp, would be to get a covered A-Lamp or G-Lamp version of a compact fluorescent lamp which has a plastic cover over the lamp suitable for protecting against the heat and broken glass should it fall over. Otherwise as normal, cage in the fixture to at very least protect against any dangerous larger pieces of glass - should you slip and fall in knocking over the lamp for instance. Otherwise a normal caged lamp or if exposed a Silicone coated or Teflon coated “SafTLamp” type coated incandescent lamp is fine - especially if a 130v long life rough service version of this lamp. Such an incandescent lamp would be just fine also if not within a say plastic jelly jar caged lamp housing or just some form of lamp cage.

I forget what wattage is required as a Ghost light in application but you can be sure it’s specified. If making a ghost light and using a compact fluorescent lamp in it, you must have that required equivalent wattage I believe is either 60 or 100w but don’t remember for sure.

I would recommend buying a free standing light fixture pre-made - especially from a theatrical lighting company, and at very least short of this a free standing house light fixture that you remove the glass bowl from, than bolt it’s base to a more stable platform - hopefully a 1/4" x 12" steel plate but respectively a more sizable base in thickness and with of plywood after that so it cannot without effort be tipped over. Caster mounting such a base requires either and or extra weight and size but can be done. Normally also a hook is mounted to hold the extra cable to such a fixture. Such a hook can be just 3/16" pencil stick wound about the top fittings.

In the past, plumbing pipes were most often used which are the same threading as electrical fittings. At the top lamp base, normally there would be a 1" Sch.40 to 1 /2" sch. 40 adaptor in use, than some form of Sch.40 outdoor medium screw lamp base socket for outdoor use lamp holder adapted and turned up-side down to mount the lamp. Often this is the type that cages in the lamp such as in the “jelly jar” type fitting or other surround type of cage. Such jelly jar fittings are easily available pre-wired and a question of within the pipe, splicing (properly butt splicing) the heat wire provided with the fixture to that of the cable run thru the conduit. This should not be a problem because most "Jelly Jar" type lamp housings come with a splicing box mounted to the lamp base mounting cover that allows for this splicing of the wire. Just a question of doing some form of strain relief at this point while also allowing the lamp housing to mount to the pipe adapter. A really good one would be a jam jar that is plastic with a cage surrounding it. Otherwise the cage around a glass jar should be sufficient to retain the glass should the fixture fall over. A as above generous amount of length so the cable stays away from the lamp, pencil stock rod hook normally hangs from the fixture somewhere around the top so as to hang the extra not in use cable from especially while the fixture is in a corner somewhere.

Note, Sch.40 water pipe plus fittings and running cable thru a conduit, and doing a splice in the conduit is specifically against code but... that’s the way I have traditionally seen it done on real 1926 thru 1970's ghost lights. One can find exceptions to code to explain away means of support, cable path etc as necessary if the rule #1 done in a professional way is accomplished. 

So at the bottom of the fixture, I normally note the use of like a 14" dia. 1" conduit boom base four arm base fitting attaching to the pipe. As opposed to the now cast solid boom bases one sees these days, the smaller boom bases of yesterday used often ones that were not a solid disc, and instead one with legs between the pipe fitting and floor flange which had holes in it for mounting to the floor or a larger base. I have a four arm 18" base for 1.1/4" pipe which currently holds my computer monitors up at the moment as an example. (Long story, about 200# counter balance 1' off center of steel, plus the tower type computer to counter weight a 4' arm of non-flat screen large dual monitors. Yep, the boom base and pipe is thoroughly over weighted in it’s 4' height.) Still, normally the cable spliced into a pipe off a ghost light normally in the classic types takes advantage of such a four arm boom base for 1" pipe so as to allow the cable to exit the pipe without needing other fittings. The cable exiting the pipe is normally cable tied to one of the arms of the boom base so as to provide a strain relief from pulling on it at the boom base. Again, not persay code but what I have seen done in the past. One could use larger pipe and a solid boom base as long as that base were drilled and threaded for a strain relief for the cable also as a theory.

That boom base than is normally mounted to a double thick painted plywood 18" square 1.1/2" thick plywood base with small 1" casters mounted to it so the weight stays close to the ground yet is sufficient to roll over cracks. Such a Ghost light I remember is about 5 to 6' high and might have had extra weighting to it so as to provide more stability to the base from tipping.

Described is my remembering of classic ghost lights - they did what they needed to back than.

These days, I might if necessary but only if required a classic version, make such a thing. 

I would recommend buying one first, than if not, buying a household and pre-wired light, than adding a more stable base to it. Of all note the protection of the lamp from falling safety issues, and unknown necessary wattage.


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## soundlight

The reason that I mentioned a CF lamp is that we've lost dozens of incandescent filaments when people accidentally kick, hit, or otherwise move the ghost lights suddenly. We now have CF's, and no problem any more. We have wire guards (like in hanging work/task lights) around the bulbs, so there's no worry of being burned.


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## dvsDave

A way to get a very special Ghostlight is to get the Behind The Scenes Ghostlight from Altman Rentals. A portion of the money will go to the Behind The Scenes foundation, which provides financial support to entertainment technology industry professionals when they are ill or injured.


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## gafftaper

dvsDave said:


> A way to get a very special Ghostlight is to get the Behind The Scenes Ghostlight from Altman Rentals. A portion of the money will go to the Behind The Scenes foundation, which provides financial support to entertainment technology industry professionals when they are ill or injured.



A great cause and a really nice looking ghost light. Plus by contributing to Behind The Scenes you just might get a free friendly theater ghost with the lamp who appreciates your good deeds. Don't underestimate the value of a good ghost in your theater. Anyone know how much it costs? 
I hate "call for pricing".


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## TupeloTechie

gafftaper said:


> I hate "call for pricing".



According to the website--

"Help light the way for our colleagues in need. All profits from your *$299* purchase will go a long way to help Behind the Scenes provide financial support to entertainment technology professionals in crisis."


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## Jezza

The Altman Ghost light is a great item. Expensive? A little compared to what one could make on their own, but considering the money is going to those unfortunately injured members of our industry, I think it is well worth the money. I saw it down at the Altman plant a few months ago. It looks quite sturdy and should last for decades. Enjoy


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## SteveB

Jezza said:


> The Altman Ghost light is a great item. Expensive? A little compared to what one could make on their own, but considering the money is going to those unfortunately injured members of our industry, I think it is well worth the money. I saw it down at the Altman plant a few months ago. It looks quite sturdy and should last for decades. Enjoy



Here's my ghost light, and it ain't cheap, but works great

2 - Altman Q1000 flood lights (2 used in case 1 burns out) hanging in my apron ceiling, flooding the entire theater. They are on a dimmed circuit run off my Unison system and come on automatically at a level of 60% when we hit the Close macro on the Unison LCD panel backstage. The reduced output gains me maybe 3,000 to 3,500 hrs. out of the lamps. I've changed one lamp in 2-1/2 years. The lower output only just allows enough light to not trip over stuff, but is not really enough light for any other purpose.

SB


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## gafftaper

Not for the professionals out there but for a cheap hanging ghost lamp... Get a good trouble light for less than $10. Remove the one sided safety basket with the "reflector" and replace it with a safety cage that let's light out on all sides ($3 at Lowes Hardware... haven't seen them at my Home Depot). Throw a Compact fluorescent in there and hang it from a batten. You've got years of cheap light for less than $20. Could also be a good idea for those high school "shops" that have a light switch in a "interesting" location.


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## JimNH

Thanks to all above. I had to make a ghost light for our production of "Our Town". I came up with this one - $33 for the caged light at Home Depot, and about $50 in miscellaneous pipe, pipe and electrical fittings, and a long extension cord. Easy to make.

We named it "Betty" (our purported ghost's name is Elizabeth, and Betty is my mother in law...)




JIM in NH


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## Edrick

Does anyone know of a place to directly purchase the Ghost Light? I can't seem to find the purchase site anymore.


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## derekleffew

The BTS Boutique (bottom of page) Price is currently $349 plus freight.

Which direct one back to:
http://www.altmanrentals.com/downloads/Behind_the_Scenes_Ghostlight_Cutsheet.pdf 
Altman Rentals Inc.
57 Alexander Street
Yonkers, NY 10701
Telephone: (914) 476-RENT (7368)
Fax: (914) 963-7304
Email: [email protected]
Website: Altman Rentals Home Page
Hours: Monday-Friday 9:00AM-5:00 PM EST


See also the threads




What kind of ghost light do you use?

My theatre does not have a ghost light (sad I know). Well I am going to propose we get one but I want it to be creative but also practical. I know there's gotta be some goofy and ghetto ones ot there so let me know.



www.controlbooth.com








origin of a ghost light?

I was just wondering what the origin of a ghost light was? Keeping a random light on stage all night dosen't seem like it has a point... just seems like a waste of electricity... Is there a reason for it? Personally, my school dosen't keep a ghost light on, but we're also a...



www.controlbooth.com


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## Edrick

Yowza price increase.


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## ship

Altman still sells them and I believe Sapsis Rigging was for a time - both in part of their profits for cherity.

The Altman or Sapsis versions would also be UL listed.


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## kicknargel

I bought an incandescent torchier from Home Despot and just didn't put the globe on. Cost $35 and is UL listed. 

Overhead ghost lights are fine and all, but I like the tradition of the light on a stand. I get a warm feeling from a single bulb burning center stage in a dark theatre.


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## derekleffew

kicknargel said:


> I bought an incandescent torchier from Home Despot and just didn't put the globe on. Cost $35 and is UL listed.


Using the fixture without the supplied globe likely voids the UL listing. Jus' sayin'.


kicknargel said:


> ...I get a warm feeling from a single bulb burning center stage in a dark theatre.


 You'll get an even warmer feeling if something flammable falls against the bare bulb, or the unit gets knocked over, the bulb shatters and sparks, and burns down your theatre.

One Google hit when searching for torchiere fires.


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## kicknargel

derekleffew said:


> Using the fixture without the supplied globe likely voids the UL listing. Jus' sayin'.



Point taken.


derekleffew said:


> You'll get an even warmer feeling if something flammable falls against the bare bulb, or the unit gets knocked over, the bulb shatters and sparks, and burns down your theatre.
> 
> 
> 
> One Google hit when searching for torchiere fires.


 
Note I said incadescent. And actually, I'm using a CFL. I would never leave a halogen burning all night. I suppose I could put a cage over it for protection.


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## TheaterEd

Hey folks, With my orchestra pit cover coming off next month, I'm looking to build a proper ghost light to replace the boring old lamp I leave on. My plan is to mount one of THESE. On some black pipe and put it on a rolling dolly. Note that the wiring will take place inside the fixture so that there isn't a connection being made in the pipe. The fire inspector won't allow anything to be plugged into extension cords, so if I need the fixture to have a 50' cord. Person at Home depot says that I can just cut one end off of a 50' SJ extension cord and wire it to the fixture. My understanding is that I will need to get SO cable for it. 

Any opinions?


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## venuetech

I think you want to look for a pendant style, does not have the big box on the base.
juat noticed it is sold online only.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-1-Light-Gloss-with-Gray-Utility-Vapor-Tight-Pendant-VP150I-M12/205566502?cm_mmc=Shopping|Base&gclid=CKP18LHSpcMCFQdafgod2T8ANw&gclsrc=aw.ds


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## TheaterEd

Yeah, one of the benefits of the in store one is that I can pretty much go there and assemble the fixture before I check out. I like the look of the pendant style one, but will it already be threaded to go on a pipe?


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## Les

TheaterEd said:


> Yeah, one of the benefits of the in store one is that I can pretty much go there and assemble the fixture before I check out. I like the look of the pendant style one, but will it already be threaded to go on a pipe?



They usually are threaded for something like 1/2" NPT rigid conduit (or black iron screw pipe). YMMV, but that's the standard way they do things on the industrial fixtures.

Here's a similar (but more expensive) one on eBay - but the photos do show a threaded neck.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NIB-Stonco-...710?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c80605c1e

I have an old Altman castered stand if you want to buy it.


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## Apmccandless

In the past I have used a wobblelight. They are available from a lot of places online as well as Grainger and they are listed to be a floor standing light fixture. I know they also offer a lot of options like halogen and metal halide, but I have always used the fluorescent ones. Plus, they are very resistant to being knocked over.


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## gafftapegreenia

Interesting that the inspector won't allow an extension cord. Perhaps its because he doesn't want it to come unplugged? You probably shouldn't mention to him that most theatre lighting instruments don't have 50' whips on them. 

SOOW is without a doubt the way to go. The only way I could see SJOOW allowable in the application is if the code interpreted it as part of an "appliance assembly" as opposed to just being used as a portable, flexible cord. Even then, it is probably still required to be under 3', thus making the use of SJOOW moot.


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## TheaterEd

gafftapegreenia said:


> Interesting that the inspector won't allow an extension cord. Perhaps its because he doesn't want it to come unplugged? You probably shouldn't mention to him that most theatre lighting instruments don't have 50' whips on them.



Yeah, they don't allow anything to be plugged into extension cords. I once set up stations in the shop during first hour for my third hour class. Some time around second hour they came by and unplugged all my saws.....


gafftapegreenia said:


> SOOW is without a doubt the way to go. The only way I could see SJOOW allowable in the application is if the code interpreted it as part of an "appliance assembly" as opposed to just being used as a portable, flexible cord. Even then, it is probably still required to be under 3', thus making the use of SJOOW moot.



That's what I thought, I was just hoping that it being part of an 'appliance assembly' would make it acceptable. That, and I'm certain that I am the only one in the building that knows SJOOW isn't allowed. Oh well, Go big or Go Home I guess!


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## gafftapegreenia

No extension cords allowed, but no idea of what kind of cable is appropriate for stage use. Ahhh, gotta love the bureaucracy. 


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## robartsd

gafftapegreenia said:


> No extension cords allowed, but no idea of what kind of cable is appropriate for stage use. Ahhh, gotta love the bureaucracy.


Well, if the cord is attached to the fixture then it most be the right type of cord to use, right?


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## gafftapegreenia

Looks like Behind the Scenes uses 15' of SJ on their ghost light. 
http://behindthescenescharity.org/bts/ghostlight.htm


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## TheaterEd

gafftapegreenia said:


> Looks like Behind the Scenes uses 15' of SJ on their ghost light.
> http://behindthescenescharity.org/bts/ghostlight.htm



And THIS is why I get confused on the topic. It seems like a common practice, that just happens to be against code. Now I hate to perpetuate the idea that inconvenient sections of the NEC can be ignored, but then again it will save me quite a bit of money...... I hate when my conscience and my wallet argue.


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## robartsd

TheaterEd said:


> And THIS is why I get confused on the topic. It seems like a common practice, that just happens to be against code. Now I hate to perpetuate the idea that inconvenient sections of the NEC can be ignored, but then again it will save me quite a bit of money...... I hate when my conscience and my wallet argue.


My conscience would loose the argument on this one. The ghost light is used when the venue is dark - you're not going to have it connected while the general public is in the venue (or even while it's being worked in). Is SJ cable appropriate for use in the scene shop?


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## TheaterEd

Brought this topic to a different thread. Thought I should come back here to wrap it up.

STEVETERRY said:


> From NEC section 520.68(A)(2):
> 
> (2) Stand Lamps. Listed, hard usage cord shall be permitted
> to supply stand lamps where the cord is not subject to
> physical damage and is protected by an overcurrent device
> rated at not over 20 amperes.
> 
> 
> Note that there is no length limit in this application of hard usage cord.
> 
> ST




gafftapegreenia said:


> "Extra hard usage cord" is S and it's variation. whereas "hard usage cord" is SJ and likewise it's variations.
> 
> So apparently, under the code, SJOOW is permissible.



So apparently my wallet and conscience can coexist peacefully once again.


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## robmerow

Maybe I'm missing something ( and it probably has to do with the NEC requirements ), but would a $10 floor lamp sans-lampshade with a $5 LED retorfit lamp not be as functional as building your own out of conduit and plywod? Not to mention much less trouble ( and presumably safer than some DIY electrical work ).


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## rsmentele

robmerow said:


> Maybe I'm missing something ( and it probably has to do with the NEC requirements ), but would a $10 floor lamp sans-lampshade with a $5 LED retorfit lamp not be as functional as building your own out of conduit and plywod? Not to mention much less trouble ( and presumably safer than some DIY electrical work ).



Eh, I wouldn't go that route as the lamp would probably last about 10 minutes! One reason NOT to use what you ask, other than NEC code, is just plain durability. One spill and the upright bends, making it unusable, or the unprotected bulb breaks causing a hazard.

I know someone will find the specific code as to why its unacceptable, I just don't want to right now!


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## TheaterEd

I can't leave it plugged in to an extension cord, so if you can find me an off the shelf lamp with a 50' cord I will consider it.

Also, the whole point is to have a ghost light, not a living room lamp. What fun are you.


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## gafftapegreenia

I can't think of any $10 floor lamp that wouldn't have a cord of 16/2 SPT-2. 


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## Les

I believe there is an NEC regulation against having uncaged/exposed lamps. Not sure if this carries over to portable assemblies. As said above, it would also be hard finding a lamp with any better than an 18 gauge 2-wire lead which would need to be fed via extension cord.


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## TheaterEd

So here is what I ended up with.





Uses a 13W LED which puts out the equivalent of a 100W incandescent.

Total cost for supplies was $87 plus $20 for the LED. I already had the casters and wood for the base. Not quite happy with the base yet, but very pleased with the results. 

One thing I was worried about was the glass globe getting too hot since it was meant to be mounted facing down. I left the thing running all weekend and the glass globe was warm, but I was able to place my hand on it and leave it there without any discomfort so I'm not worried anymore.


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## robartsd

TheaterEd said:


> One thing I was worried about was the glass globe getting too hot since it was meant to be mounted facing down. I left the thing running all weekend and the glass globe was warm, but I was able to place my hand on it and leave it there without any discomfort so I'm not worried anymore.


If the globe was designed for incandescent 100W or greater and I was lamping with LED (or even CF) for equivilent brightness, I would have stopped worrying about any sort of temperature problem before I started. The difference in the heat generated by the more efficent lamp far outweighs the difference in the heat distribution based on orientation.


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## TheaterEd

robartsd said:


> If the globe was designed for incandescent 100W or greater and I was lamping with LED (or even CF) for equivilent brightness, I would have stopped worrying about any sort of temperature problem before I started. The difference in the heat generated by the more efficent lamp far outweighs the difference in the heat distribution based on orientation.


Yeah, but I never stop worrying....... At least it makes me slightly more cautious.


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## JD

TheaterEd said:


> Uses a 13W LED which puts out the equivalent of a 100W incandescent.
> 
> Total cost for supplies was $87 plus $20 for the LED. I already had the casters and wood for the base. Not quite happy with the base yet, but very pleased with the results.
> 
> One thing I was worried about was the glass globe getting too hot since it was meant to be mounted facing down. I left the thing running all weekend and the glass globe was warm, but I was able to place my hand on it and leave it there without any discomfort so I'm not worried anymore.



Problem: The fine print on LED lamps usually indicates that they cannot be used in an enclosed fixture. Even though they don't get hot to the touch, the electronics require airflow to cool the heat sink. The exception has been the Cree lamps, but in an interview, even they admitted it is a problem but they would rather replace some lamps in-warranty then discourage the use of LED lamps. You may find that the lamp has a much shorter lifespan when using it enclosed like that. (CFL's are actually the same way.)

Amazing how troublesome a simple stand light can be!


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## TheaterEd

ugh... well I guess I'll check the fine print on the fixture and see if I can use it without the glass..........


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## Les

I thought I would ask here since it is the most relevant thread. 

How does one employ proper strain relief to this fixture:




When it is mounted to this stand:



(Upper female-threaded mast section replaced with 1/2 NPT screw pipe)

The only solution I can think of is an Underwriter's Knot situated in the bell-housing of the fixture. The Altman ghost light seems to use a similar head - I'm curious as to how they do it.


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## n1ist

I'd use a type-t conduit body (condulet). Nipple the top to the fixture, and use a cable gland (or a Kellems grip) out the side port.
/mike


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## ship

I remember that there is types of this "explosion proof" caged fixtures or at least fixture head caps that have three NPT outlet fittings on them. One outlet you can cap, another you can cord grip and one you can mount to. I normally, given the cable has to go down to the floor anyway, and the stand is a hollow pipe, send the SOOW cable down thru the pipe. I have a few versions I built for shows in stock I would have to re-view in how I did... (On vacation until the end of the year.) Have done the ghost light cable hook in the past, but think it was more about antique lights on a stand in it's use. Believe I always send the cable down to the base where needed anyway. Otherwise.... anyone asked Altman to join the website?

All this said, LED lamp as a Ghost Light lamp is an excellent idea! Concept of it being on all night is a perfect use. That said, also I wouldn't have a glass globe in use anyway for something that can and does fall over. No ghost lights I have ever built, while caged have ever included a glass globe. Does it need it for some reason? Is something that can fall over on stage a good idea to have a glass globe for? What's the purpose of having a glass globe - just because it's included with the cage that normally screws in indipendant of it?

Fine detail notes above about not inside a hurricane lamp due to ventilation makes me wonder about the dozen or so CFL lamps the architect installed in our work washroom and hallway hurricane lamps - my department often has to change.... Never thought about it other than by design they wanted bad lighting in the washrooms to keep people off their phones while in the stalls. Will look into the heating details of CFL lamps now in thanks given the above note.


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## Les

ship said:


> I remember that there is types of this "explosion proof" caged fixtures or at least fixture head caps that have three NPT outlet fittings on them. One outlet you can cap, another you can cord grip and one you can mount to. I normally, given the cable has to go down to the floor anyway, and the stand is a hollow pipe, send the SOOW cable down thru the pipe. I have a few versions I built for shows in stock I would have to re-view in how I did... (On vacation until the end of the year.) Have done the ghost light cable hook in the past, but think it was more about antique lights on a stand in it's use. Believe I always send the cable down to the base where needed anyway. Otherwise.... anyone asked Altman to join the website?
> 
> All this said, LED lamp as a Ghost Light lamp is an excellent idea! Concept of it being on all night is a perfect use. That said, also I wouldn't have a glass globe in use anyway for something that can and does fall over. No ghost lights I have ever built, while caged have ever included a glass globe. Does it need it for some reason? Is something that can fall over on stage a good idea to have a glass globe for? What's the purpose of having a glass globe - just because it's included with the cage that normally screws in indipendant of it?



Thanks, @ship -- I don't believe this fixture has multiple NPT caps, but it hasn't arrived yet. I assume it just has the one on the bottom/top. I may also look in to what @n1ist said about the condulet option.

Good point about the glass globe. I was planning on removing that for the reasons you stated. Sharp glass hazard as well as ventilation. I have had good luck with Cree LED lamps from Home Depot, so that's probably what I will be using (100w equivalent).

Besides that, the stand I'm using wasn't originally a followspot stand. It was ordered from BH several years ago and just has a female insert for a 1/2" bolt. Hopefully I can remove that section of pipe and have it accept 1/2" black pipe. If not, all bets are off but I might have a second stand I could use. This was originally just me getting rid of a stand I had lying around and now it has turned in to me creating a ghost light for the recipient. I'm not concerned with my abilities electrically; I just want to make sure I get it right in terms of strain relief. I'm also considering using crimp-style wire nuts as opposed to twist-on within the fixture. I might even solder the connections first. Multiple layers of safety above all.


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## JD

Yea, the Cree's don't do well in closed fixtures. (most LEDs don't) The 100w Cree still has the rubber (silicon) coated glass globe and the heatsink along the bottom. I was experimenting with one to see if it was suitable for outdoor acorn style lights, but after 4 minutes of low airflow the sink was skin-burning hot. They are fine in open fixtures.


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## Les

JD said:


> Yea, the Cree's don't do well in closed fixtures. (most LEDs don't) The 100w Cree still has the rubber (silicon) coated glass globe and the heatsink along the bottom. I was experimenting with one to see if it was suitable for outdoor acorn style lights, but after 4 minutes of low airflow the sink was skin-burning hot. They are fine in open fixtures.



Funny you mention that - I surprised myself when I touched the sink on a Cree lamp operating in an open fixture. I didn't take the temperature, but it was definitely hot enough to cause burns if I left my hand there (I jerked away fairly quickly).

Also of interest, on the lamp packaging it says:

"Do not use in multi-bulb enclosed fixtures together with other bulb technologies (e.g. incandescent, halogen, CFL, etc.)."

But nothing about enclosed fixtures as a concept. I'm sure it's still a no-no, but I guess they're fairly OK with it enough to not warn against it. Seems like the above warning was out of concern for operating near external heat sources (max. ambient temp listed is 113F).


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## JD

I remember an early interview I saw where the Cree rep was saying that they came to the conclusion that it was best to leave that off the package as it adds to confusion and they thought that it could cost them more sales then they would loose replacing any that might fail. Funny part is the "other bulb technologies" line sounds even more confusing! What that's really aimed at is closed ceiling fixtures that might use 2 lamps. If the second lamp throws a lot of heat (like an incandescent) then the heatsink on the Cree becomes useless as the ambient air in the fixture is even hotter. All LEDs are pretty much in the same boat. I have taken the Cree's apart and the caps are rated for 105C which is good. Don't know if that's the case with some of the other LEDs out there. Still, moving the heat from the LED emitters and dumping it is where the big problem is with all of them.


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## DELO72

soundlight said:


> Attach a lamp socket to the top of a piece of conduit which is attached to a square/rectangular wooden base. Use 16/3 wire to run the power for the socket down through the conduit and out under the base. Put the connector of your choice on the other end. Make sure to use a compact flourescent bulb, because there's no filament to break when the ghost light is moved while it's hot. All of these materials can be found at your local Lowes' Home Improvement. I have no idea if Home Depot carries all of the stuff, but lowes does!




Great advice EXCEPT for the "Make sure to use a compact fluorescent bulb" part. That's a terrible idea. Ghost lights as described above have a VERY big habit of tipping over. The last thing you need is to be cleaning up glass and mercury. Buy an 8W LED bulb instead. It will last forever and use less energy than the Flourescent. And, when it falls over you won't have to clean up mercury and shattered pieces of small glass.


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## ship

Above post was deleted in quote in missing, not sure abut the wooden base attachment of socket concept, but also not sure about Mark's reply to it also. Yea, messy if a CFL breaks, but I also find some LED globes made of glass and not silicone coated. Have a Cree lamp on my work table - cracked, but silicone coated. Osram's might be, but not all are.

Would hope such a coating would be a selling point, but in buying a few hundred recently for an ice rink I foiund out the coated version was discontinued - (Bulbrite). Such a specication as per old incandescent silicone coated lamps, should become a specification standard.


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## Les

My ghost light will be a bit easier and more standard in its construction, being mounted to an Altman castered stand. I did find a silicone-coated Cree lamp. 75w equivalent, I believe. 

I hope to get it finished up tomorrow. Wiring will be the next order of business. I am using the light fixture below, and was originally going to just use wire nuts but I am starting to think better of it, and use heat shrunk butt-splices instead. I have decided that I will use a loose knot in the SJOOW cable within the bell-housing of the fixture to provide strain relief. That's about the best and most self-sufficient approach I can think of, but with the 1/2" NPT opening of the fixture, it should be sufficient.


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## JD

The new Cree's are plastic, at least in the 60W size. I expect the 100's to soon be as well.


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## Les

I saw those plastic Crees at Home Depot the other day. I actually went with the "classic" version because those just seemed a little cheap. I might buy a few for home use though. I have a Cree LED in my night stand light and it ever-so-slightly flickers every once in a while. Has anyone else experienced that?

Also, I'm shying away from using butt connections. I don't have a very good crimper and don't feel like buying one at the moment (still recovering from the $80 Heyco tool purchase. Ha.) Any advice on crimps vs wirenuts in an application like this? I assume many people would prefer crimps, and I'm curious to know what everyone's preferred splicing methods are. This won't be a high-temp application, but I do need to join #14 stranded to #16 stranded.


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## JD

I was shying away from them at first as well. Since then, I've picked up about 50 for the church renovation. Although they feel cheap due to the light weight, they actually work very well. Have one in my drop light and have banged it around quite a bit. At 11 watts, they are a bit less efficient as compared to the 9.5 watt version, although they have a slightly higher output. 
Now, about the flicker- The glass style has the emitters mounted to the heat sink and the electronics in the base. They snap together and two sets of contacts rest on each other. Out of the 500 I put in at the church, about 4 of them have developed "the flicker." Of course I took one apart. As you might expect, the problem is those contacts. Clean them, snap them together, and no flicker. Problem is, I haven't figured out how to get them apart without breaking the glass to get to the release pins 
I suspect as time goes by, more will develop the problem, so I'm still working on an "intact" method. Since they often do the "green energy" thing, the lamps often sell below $4 so there is not much incentive to come up with a fix.


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## ship

interesting about the lamps - thanks. Liking plastic bulbs at times but if glass globe otherwise in my main use for lamp socket stringers - prefer coated lamps.

Insulation displacement tool is always superior to a crushing tool. In other words, a tool that pushes a tooth into the crimp pushes material into the area of the wire and leaves no room to expand/contract or wire to settle after. A crimp tool that just crushes the crimp smaller in compression leaves room for the wire to settle with expansion and contraction and settle in a loose way. Can do that crimp with vise grips in crushing a crimp and little difference. There are a few larger wire gauges I have crimp tools for tha make hex crimps or dimple, but for most cable in standard gauges I displace instead of crush the crimp.

Wire nuts are never good for other than homeowner uses - this especially for fine stranded wire. I like cap splices like the McMaster Carr #7242k64, but my guys have gotten me into the lever lock styles of crimps like the #8904t2 in yet to find a failure with stranded or solid wire. Had bad cap splices in years of use of them, but yet to see a bad lever lock splice - but they are new for me.

I use the Klein #1005, #1006 and especially with 12ga wire + in size, the Ideal #30-426 a huge amount. Wise to wait in doing it properly for the proper insulation or material displacement tool. By the way, should you break your Heyco tool, there is replacement springs available thru Allied Electronics or most suppliers. It happens in adjusting sizes for cord grip.


On cord grip, good question and don't remember how I did that. Will have run a reamer over any fittings the cord was run thru in making sure no edges were sharp. Probably did UL'Knot at least or did a cable tie if not some form of cable strap. Think just a cable tie to ensure outer jacket could not fall thru the hole in exposing inner conductors to a potentially sharp edge.

Not really feasible to thru tap the taper tap of the hole in installing a cord grip inside the lamp cap assembly, and still able to screw into the stand pipe. Grounding is good - ensure your ground has bonded to your instrument before closing it up. At times a powder coat of paint will lighn up just so' with the ground terminal that you will not get a good ground. Something to check before finishing the assembly as a warning in what to check.


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