# Projector recommendations



## Quentin (Cue) (May 22, 2019)

Greetings everyone,

I hope this isn't stupid for me to post, but I am looking for some recommendations for a projector to buy. The women I'm working for has asked me to find something that will shoot on a scrim that is 15'X15'. Ideally, she wants it to cover the whole width and length. I asked her what she's willing to spend and from what I understand money is not much of an issue. However, let's try to keep the pricing somewhat reasonable. Nothing over $800.00. Many thanks in advance!!


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## ruinexplorer (May 22, 2019)

Hi Quentin,

Not stupid to post. However, for the best recommendation there are a few more things to consider. How bright will the stage be around the scrim? That will affect how bright your projector needs to be. Since the scrim is square, then you will likely be going with a SD (4:3 aspect ratio) projector (which will probably be cheaper). Do you know what kind of content will be shown? This can sometimes affect how much contrast that you want.


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## Quentin (Cue) (May 22, 2019)

ruinexplorer said:


> Hi Quentin,
> 
> Not stupid to post. However, for the best recommendation there are a few more things to consider. How bright will the stage be around the scrim? That will affect how bright your projector needs to be. Since the scrim is square, then you will likely be going with a SD (4:3 aspect ratio) projector (which will probably be cheaper). Do you know what kind of content will be shown? This can sometimes affect how much contrast that you want.



What she will be projecting is a a video that looks like it was made in MS paint..That's not meant to be a stab at the quality of the video, just how I can best describe it. As for lighting, I'm not certain. She's previewing this show at one location, and no projections will be used. The main stage it's going up at I'm not involved with. All she wanted was a projector recommendation.


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## ruinexplorer (May 22, 2019)

My guess is that with the MS Paint look, it will likely be brighter colors on a white background. Contrast will likely not be an issue. If she has no control over the lights, then we should probably look at the brightest projector in her budget. I would probably look at something like this.

I forgot to ask, where does she plan on having it? Does it need to be above the performance? Does it need to be really close (short throw lens)?


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## RonHebbard (May 22, 2019)

Quentin (Cue) said:


> What she will be projecting is a a video that looks like it was made in MS paint..That's not meant to be a stab at the quality of the video, just how I can best describe it. As for lighting, I'm not certain. She's previewing this show at one location, and no projections will be used. The main stage it's going up at I'm not involved with. All she wanted was a projector recommendation.


Hello *@Quentin (Cue)* Front projection or rear projection and where do you foresee locating the projector*?* Flown from an overhead pipe*??* On the stage floor*???* In an FOH cove*????* In an FOH booth*?????* Approximate throw distance*?????? *
Toodleoo! 
Ron (Master of posting queries) Hebbard


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## Quentin (Cue) (May 22, 2019)

ruinexplorer said:


> My guess is that with the MS Paint look, it will likely be brighter colors on a white background. Contrast will likely not be an issue. If she has no control over the lights, then we should probably look at the brightest projector in her budget. I would probably look at something like this.
> 
> I forgot to ask, where does she plan on having it? Does it need to be above the performance? Does it need to be really close (short throw lens)?



I too forgot to include the scrim she will be projecting on is black. I apologize for not including that information before.

The purpose of this projector is either to be projected from the front or the back. I'm afraid I don't know where she is having it hung or placed. From what I understand is that she plans on using two projectors. The theater she is performing in will be providing one projector, and she will be providing the other..I almost want to tell her to maybe just find out what projector the theater uses, and purchase that one.


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## Quentin (Cue) (May 22, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> Hello *@Quentin (Cue)* Front projection or rear projection and where do you foresee locating the projector*?* Flown from an overhead pipe*??* On the stage floor*???* In an FOH cove*????* In an FOH booth*?????* Approximate throw distance*?????? *
> Toodleoo!
> Ron (Master of posting queries) Hebbard



I apologize for not including this information in the original post, as I don't know. It was not information she provided nor did I think to ask. The scrim she is projecting onto is black. From what I understand is that she plans on using two projectors. The theater she is performing in will be providing one projector, and she will be providing the other..I almost want to tell her to maybe just find out what projector the theater uses, and purchase that one.


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## ruinexplorer (May 23, 2019)

You might not be able to go with the same projector. Often, when rear projecting you will need a short throw lens. If the projector does not have the option for changing lenses, you will need to find a projector that will fit your needs for lens throw. Even though the projector that I suggested is 4:3, you need to consider the entire projection size when calculating an image. The lens ratio will be in relation to the width of the image. In your instance, you are not looking at the width of the scrim. Your projected image size will be 20' to get 15' high. So, when choosing a lens, a 1.0:1 would put your projector would need to be 20' back (plus need extra space for ventilation). Most standard zoom lenses will be in the range of 1.5-2.0:1.


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## RonHebbard (May 23, 2019)

ruinexplorer said:


> You might not be able to go with the same projector. Often, when rear projecting you will need a short throw lens. If the projector does not have the option for changing lenses, you will need to find a projector that will fit your needs for lens throw. Even though the projector that I suggested is 4:3, you need to consider the entire projection size when calculating an image. The lens ratio will be in relation to the width of the image. In your instance, you are not looking at the width of the scrim. Your projected image size will be 20' to get 15' high. So, when choosing a lens, a 1.0:1 would put your projector 20' back to the front of the lens plus extra space for the projector itself and any ventilation intakes or exhausts on the rear of the projector. Most standard zoom lenses will be in the range of 1.5-2.0:1.


 *@Quentin (Cue)* ( and *@ruinexplorer* ) Isn't the patrons seeing the hot spot of the lens through the scrim going to be a consideration when rear projecting, especially when rear projecting on a scrim rather than an actual rear screen surface*?? *
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## Quentin (Cue) (May 23, 2019)

@RonHebbard @ruinexplorer Thanks for the info guys, these are things I shall keep in mind.

I spoke with the woman today and gave her the suggestion of contacting the theater and seeing what they use. She got back to me and told me they apparently rent their equipment and don't actually have the projector on hand, so now I'm going to contact the theater to see why the woman can't just add a second projector to the rental. Seems like an easier solution to me than just buying one.


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## RonHebbard (May 23, 2019)

Quentin (Cue) said:


> @RonHebbard @ruinexplorer Thanks for the info guys, these are things I shall keep in mind.
> 
> I spoke with the woman today and gave her the suggestion of contacting the theater and seeing what they use. She got back to me and told me they apparently rent their equipment and don't actually have the projector on hand, so now I'm going to contact the theater to see why the woman can't just add a second projector to the rental. Seems like an easier solution to me than buying one.


 *@Quentin (Cue)* Make *SURE* the theatre, the person speaking with the rental company *and* the rental company _FULLY UNDERSTAND_ how you're intending to use the two projectors, where and how you're planning to mount them, both throw distances (which may be different) and the image dimensions desired (which you may want to be the same) * @ruinexplorer* Care to comment*??*
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## macsound (May 23, 2019)

I would always recommend an LCD projector over a DLP projector. DLP projectors have difficulty with certain colors and almost always have lower brightness than LCD projectors. 
Also, realize that projector's native aspect ratio may be very different than an actual video aspect ratio. You'll see this alot in cheaper, brighter projectors. 
For example, Epson makes a 6000lumen projector that's 1080p compatible but the chip itself is 1200x800
In the same body, Epson makes a 5000lumen projector that has a 1920x1200 chip.
In both cases, you'd be feeding a 1920x1080 video so internal digital cropping is occurring.


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## ruinexplorer (May 23, 2019)

RonHebbard said:


> *@Quentin (Cue)* ( and *@ruinexplorer* ) Isn't the patrons seeing the hot spot of the lens through the scrim going to be a consideration when rear projecting, especially when rear projecting on a scrim rather than an actual rear screen surface*?? *
> Toodleoo!
> Ron Hebbard



Yes, the hot spot might be an issue. A couple of things to consider when using a short throw lens is that some will be required to be at the center of the projected image, making a visibly brighter area. Some, like office and home theater projectors, have the image offset in the lens which requires the projector to be positioned above or below the projection area so that it minimizes interference in the image and negates a hot spot. This type of projector will probably be better for scrim anyhow as it should make the image more apparent to the audience. Not knowing exactly the type of scrim makes this difficult to predict how the image will ultimately look.


macsound said:


> I would always recommend an LCD projector over a DLP projector. DLP projectors have difficulty with certain colors and almost always have lower brightness than LCD projectors.
> Also, realize that projector's native aspect ratio may be very different than an actual video aspect ratio. You'll see this alot in cheaper, brighter projectors.
> For example, Epson makes a 6000lumen projector that's 1080p compatible but the chip itself is 1200x800
> In the same body, Epson makes a 5000lumen projector that has a 1920x1200 chip.
> In both cases, you'd be feeding a 1920x1080 video so internal digital cropping is occurring.



I think that you have some misinformation regarding imagers. You might be referring to single chip DLP projectors that can have a variety of color wheels. These different color wheels are available to produce different ranges of colors, depending on use, so if you are looking to produce something out of that range, it might have difficulty. However, if you have one that has a generic color wheel, it will produce the same range as a standard LCD, both of which fit within the Rec. 709 color gamut. A lot of how a projector creates colors will depend on how it is interpreting the information coming in, the colored coatings on the dichroic glass, and then the speed in which it is able to reproduce those colors. For what its worth, LCD projectors appear brighter than single chip DLP when producing a colored image. 

Your second point is that when you pick a projector, always look to see what is the native resolution. This is what the projector will scale all other resolutions. The best quality image is always set to the native resolution of the projector. This sometimes takes some digging when looking through sales literature.


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## macsound (May 23, 2019)

On DLP vs LCD I’m referring to large 3 chip LCD and 3 segment DLP color wheel varietals over 6,000 lumens. 
From personal experience using NEC, Panasonic and Epson projectors on the same day on the same size screens in the same venue (corporate) assuming the same setup and feed materials, the DLPs always looked dull. Not like how Samsung smart phone turn the saturation and contrast up to 12 but even a solid blue screen on the DLPs looked bluish grey and blue on the LCDs absolutely glowed as expected. I’ve even made checked on equipment because I thought we were projecting in b/w. 

My only comment about the resolution is in regard to the brightness. When comparing similar models, like on projector stats websites, realize that the reason there might be 2 comparable models with one being brighter and cheaper, it might not be initially evident that it’s because of the native resolution.


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## Jay Ashworth (May 24, 2019)

A black scrim is just going to *suck up* all your photons. When I hit my scrim with my WM5500, it's at least 4 stops darker than on my cyc, maybe 5 or 6; I've never actually measured it.


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## Jay Ashworth (May 24, 2019)

Also: "rent".


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## jtweigandt (May 28, 2019)

I have an epson.. about 3000 lumens that I project old show pictures and informational posters on to a white wall above our fully lit Theater Lobby. Shows nicely day or night. 
It is nice and bright.. The other thing about this particular epson was I looked at the bulb life/replacement cost, and it was the lowest bulb cost of this whole class of projector. Some bulbs are almost like buying the projector all over again 
About 2 years old now. I also back projected a snow effect onto black guaze with a 2000 lumen projector for bedford falls, and it was quite effective. I guess it depends on what you are trying to project and see. The epson was about a 300 buck range projector.


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## RonHebbard (May 28, 2019)

jtweigandt said:


> I have an Epson.. about 3000 lumens that I use to project old show pictures and informational posters on to a white wall above our fully lit Theater Lobby. Shows nicely day or night.
> It is nice and bright.. The other thing about this particular Epson was I looked at the bulb life/replacement cost, and it was the lowest bulb cost of this whole class of projector. Some bulbs are almost like buying the projector all over again.
> About 2 years old now. I also back projected a snow effect onto black guaze with a 2000 lumen projector for Bedford falls, and it was quite effective. I guess it depends on what you are trying to project and see. The Epson was about a 300 buck range projector.


 *@jtweigandt* In your lobby application, can you please post your image size (dimensions) and your throw distance*?* Thank you for mentioning lamp prices as they relate to your projector's operating cost per hour; too many purchasers fail to consider lamp replacement cost per hour of operation and are shocked to learn how much their "economy / bargain" projector actually ends up costing them. 
Thanks again for your informative and useful post. 
Toodleoo! 
Ron Hebbard


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## jtweigandt (May 28, 2019)

In the lobby I'm about a 10 to 12 foot wide (not diagonal) image. Throwing from probably 18 feet out.
I cant tell you the exact model, except it was about 3000 lumens. Looking at Amazon.. maybe it was more of a 
500 buck class projector. It's not onto a screen, just a white painted wall... The 2000 Lumen snow projection was back projected onto black guaze rear projected about 8x8 and thrown from about 20 feet back. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OJeG013D8W3lVDlY4spHG_p7k6iPstxw


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## jtweigandt (May 28, 2019)




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## macsound (May 29, 2019)

I applaud your quality graphic design. All too often, people designing these slides in powerpoint think more is more and end up with 20 fonts and colors, overall making an illegible and useless "ad"


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## jtweigandt (May 29, 2019)

I wish I could take credit for that. I'm just the "mechanic" research the photometrics, and set up the raspberry pi looper 
Nice young man who is a Junior High music teacher and accomplished photographer does the graphics for us.


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## Jay Ashworth (May 30, 2019)

JT: What are you looping *with*?


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## spiwak2005 (May 30, 2019)

Jay Ashworth said:


> JT: What are you looping *with*?


Raspberry Pi. I've been experimenting with them for looping video too and was about to start a thread about this. I currently have 2 in 24/7 use - 1 in a museum piece and 1 in a public display. Here's my go to brand - https://www.canakit.com/


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## jtweigandt (May 30, 2019)

yep raspberry pi.. even the 20 buck zerow does an excellent job and will run and run... 
https://learn.adafruit.com/raspberry-pi-video-looper/installation
The looper lets you load a series of videos in multiple formats on a thumb drive, and goes down the 
list and plays them over and over. I just put the stills into a video using a linux utility.. I believe that windows based powerpoint
will let you make a powerpoint series into a movie format. The linux program I use is 4k slideshow maker. It will show them straight, or 
will "Ken Burns" your stills .. panning in or out or across...


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