# New Guy, non-Flying Question?



## aboulay (Jan 22, 2009)

Hey, happened to find this on Google. I will give it a whirl. I am helping my son's high school in New York area, produce and tech direct Peter Pan. I have been in the business of show for over 28 years now, and any advise and thoughts would be appreciated.
The New York (DOE) has denied us "flying" for our production stating insurance issues.(no flying byFoy... Now that we have paid for the rights and have begun script reads this wrench has been thrown in. ( wish director had looked into this first!)
I need ideas on how to pull flying off without flying if that makes sense. I realize Green screen is one of my main options, but I am leaning towards a "magic" approach . fooling the audiences eye without going against any copyright legalities.
I am racking my brain but one is not enough(brain that is). Any input would be very much appreciated.
andre


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## lieperjp (Jan 22, 2009)

Welcome. One piece of advice we all give new members is use the search feature. You'll find it in the toolbar at the top of the page. There have been quite a few threads on this in the past, though we are happy to answer any new questions!

As suggested in this thread, people are very particular about flying people safely, and we're glad you made the right choice not to do it yourself.

Some previous threads that may pertain (_but not all of them, there are still more to be found!_)

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-f-x/9338-making-people-fly-without-using-fly-system.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/special-f-x/8197-flying-fx-not-how-question.html

PS - A guy with 28 years of experience is a great add on to our community! Please join in on the discussions elsewhere and stick around for a few, um, years or so...


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## cisgrig (Jan 22, 2009)

We went through this last year. There was not enough money to bring in a real fly crew but the director would not give up until we tried all sorts of misadventures. I was the stage manager and made sure we maintained safety during these trials. Ended up that it just looked stupid to try a 'simple' solution so we didn't fly at all. At the end when PP and the kids leave through the window, we had a black up-tilted ramp and the kids just stepped up and to the side behind the wall as the lights went out. The director wasn't that happy but from the audience it looked pretty real.


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## DaveySimps (Jan 22, 2009)

We did a production of Peter Pan many years back where we went with a completely different approach. The entire premise of the production was that the cast was a group of kids playing peter pan on a playground. 

The set was a big multi-level playscape complete with slide, monkey bars, and merry-go-round. We used a bunch of found items to convey key elements of the show. The crock was a metal trash can we cut in half and hinged. That and several kids made an interesting way to make it happen, very much like the Chinese dragons in parades. 

While the audience was being seated, we had a half hour of the cast as kids just playing on the set, a sort of prologue to put the whole show into context. Still to date, this has been one of my favorite shows I have been a part of.

~Dave


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## theatretechguy (Jan 22, 2009)

I've seen it done where strong "ninjas" (dancers dressed completely in black) pick up the children while the scene is blacklit. It almost becomes 'ballet' at that point and is actually kinda cool.


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## What Rigger? (Jan 23, 2009)

cisgrig said:


> . There was not enough money to bring in a real fly crew but the director would not give up until we tried all sorts of misadventures. I was the stage manager and made sure we maintained safety during these trials. .



Did this involve home-made flying rigs?


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## mark (Feb 9, 2009)

aboulay said:


> Hey, happened to find this on Google. I will give it a whirl. I am helping my son's high school in New York area, produce and tech direct Peter Pan. I have been in the business of show for over 28 years now, and any advise and thoughts would be appreciated.
> The New York (DOE) has denied us "flying" for our production stating insurance issues.(no flying byFoy... Now that we have paid for the rights and have begun script reads this wrench has been thrown in. ( wish director had looked into this first!)
> I need ideas on how to pull flying off without flying if that makes sense. I realize Green screen is one of my main options, but I am leaning towards a "magic" approach . fooling the audiences eye without going against any copyright legalities.
> I am racking my brain but one is not enough(brain that is). Any input would be very much appreciated.
> andre


You can lift, in a rentable flying harness a few inches or foot or so, nothing dangerous and spot light a flying pose. light costume material and fans. You need a decent dancer. If you have the set-up, you can project the same image, higher up, tracking from one side of the stage to the other.


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## gafftaper (Feb 10, 2009)

mark said:


> You can lift, in a rentable flying harness a few inches or foot or so, nothing dangerous and spot light a flying pose. light costume material and fans. You need a decent dancer. If you have the set-up, you can project the same image, higher up, tracking from one side of the stage to the other.



My mother always said if you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all.

"..."

There is a line. Dancing close to it is still getting close to it.


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## What Rigger? (Feb 10, 2009)

mark said:


> You can lift, in a rentable flying harness a few inches or foot or so, nothing dangerous and spot light a flying pose. light costume material and fans. You need a decent dancer. If you have the set-up, you can project the same image, higher up, tracking from one side of the stage to the other.



Gaff, you are (as always) too kind. I (as always) am not. And since I've already harshed on people regarding falling this week, let's get the full meal deal and talk flying.

NO NO NO you can NOT rent just a harness and lift someone even a few inches. Here's why:
1. No reputable flying company will rent you just a harness and turn you loose to do some janky home-made flying. Even 'just a few inches' off the deck. Flying is like being pregnant, either you are or you aren't (doing it right. Flying that is.)
2. "Just a few inches" of lift is like being shot "just a little bit". The hazards and risks are not mitigated in any way by altitude. Stay with me here: You might not die from falling "just a few inches", but if that worthless, and completely wrong rigging design fails all that gear (batten, wire rope, loft blocks and whatever else gets sucked into the runaway) over your head comes down on you and the hapless shmoes on deck. Not good!

So in conclusion, the intial idea of "You can lift, in a rentable flying harness a few inches or foot or so, nothing dangerous" is inherently wrong and dangerous. Please don't anyone out there start thinking you can do it yourself (how many times have we said that here before???_ The ONLY way to do it is to hire professionals (yes, such as myself), and you do it OUR way. The RIGHT way. And everybody goes home safe.

Love, peace, and geese my brothers n' sisters.


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## draco17315 (Feb 10, 2009)

Hello, you could try several things, it is going to be trial and error..........

first I would try using lighting tricks, dark stage with strobes or gobo effects

then you could try what we did for a production of wizard of oz one year for the flying monkeys, if you have your window so that the audience is seeing the "inside view" of the room and a backdrop behind the window, you can build the window on a platform a few feet off the ground and have the cast jump out the window onto a hidden safety matt behind the platform and then as soon as they jump out the window use a very tight spot light or a pin spot and move it very quickly from the window area, up and around the back scrim or whatever you have behind the window and then send the light off stage....kind of like a "faire or ufo" might look like........hope this helps


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## derekleffew (Feb 10, 2009)

What Rigger?, I applaud your restraint.  It appears those (court-ordered?) anger management classes ARE working. 

Since it hasn't yet been cited in this thread, http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/glossary/7904-flying-effects.html. And one should NEVER trust anything one reads on the Internet, (even here) except ControlBooth - FAQ: Content Policies.


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## What Rigger? (Feb 10, 2009)

I like Draco's thinking. Creative, and indeed, not the usual perspective for this type of gag. 

Court order, Derek? Pfff....they'll never take me alive. "D*mn The Man, save The Empire!"


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## gafftaper (Feb 10, 2009)

What Rigger? said:


> Gaff, you are (as always) too kind. I (as always) am not.



You didn't see the other post that Derek deleted last night (not in this thread).


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