# Need Hazer for tour



## JamesSullivan (Apr 4, 2013)

Hey,

I am unfamiliar with hazers. I have looked around this site a bit and many people say different things. Looks like the DF-50 is pretty standard.

I am looking to rent a hazer for house of blues sized venues. My budget is $200-250 per week. What would you guys suggest I look into. I would prefer the hazer have DMX but will I really be turning it on and off.

Does anybody know any good rental houses in the LA area?

Also oil vs. non-oil based haze. What are your thoughts?

One more thing; this tour will be fly/drive. What is the deal with hazers on an airplane? Drain the fluid prior to flight? 


Thank you for your time,
James


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## len (Apr 4, 2013)

I don't know the regulations for flying, but at a minimum it would probably be expensive as checked baggage. Personally, I think it would be easier to just make it part of your rider and have the venue get it. 

Oil based can leave more residue. A DF-50 will do a decent job in small arenas, so a HOB sized venue will be no problem.

But again, I'd just put "X number of oil/water hazer is to be provided." and then maybe list 3 - 4 acceptable products. 

The one I've used most is the Radiance, which is water based. At highest output it almost looks like fog.


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 4, 2013)

Obviously you will also need each venue to approve the use of haze as well. Not all of them can/will accomodate. Also, different hazers put out a different type of haze. I generally like the DF-50 for the evenness of the particles. There are others that put out more of a wispy haze that reminds me of a smoke filled room, which can add cool effects. 

Have you read the Actors Equity guide to hazers? Read this and this. That way you have a better idea of how the haze will affect your performers as well.

While I don't see any type of haze fluid as prohibited, it would probably be easiest to have the hazer/fluid provided by the venue as len stated. Of course, if you have to provide your own and must take it with you, go ahead and contact the TSA to make sure ahead of time.


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## Les (Apr 4, 2013)

I don't have much to add in regards to using hazers, but I can definitely recommend looking into is the Base Hazer Pro if you find a rental shop that carries them (I know Gemini does). They recommended it over the DF-50, and I'd say it's at least just as good. 

One feature I liked was that aside from being built in to a roadcase, it can be transported full of fluid in any position without making a mess or hurting the machine. It can also produce anything from a light haze to a thick fog. Great little machine. It's also water based.


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## JamesSullivan (Apr 5, 2013)

First I would like to say, thank you for the responses. 

I thought about putting a hazer on the rider and I am not sure if I can rely on the venues/promoters providing. If they can't for what ever reason, it will be difficult to get one for one show with our schedule. I have never toured before and do not know what to expect from the venues/promoters.

Ruin, thanks for posting those documents. I do not really know exactly what everything means but I think that "0" Time (in sec) After Which Air Concentrations Are Below Guidance Level (40 mg/m3) is preferred. I may have access to a DF-50 and according to that document it is great as far as the measurements. 

Also I am deciding whether to bring my gear to the UK or to rent there. Our schedule is that we play a show on the east coast and fly to the UK. We are based out of LA and I do not see how I can get the gear back there while we are in the UK for a few weeks. 

Do you guys usually leave your hazers on a timer during the performance? 

Those base hazer pro's look really convenient with design and case.


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## Footer (Apr 5, 2013)

If you have a lot of fly dates your going to have a real hard time taking your gear with you. Fly dates usually mean everything stays home except for guitars. If you are shipping, get an air courier to move your gear on palletes. It will get there faster and you wont have to mess with it at the airport. Finally, you won't have to spend that nights nut moving the gear.


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## thenelsontwins (Apr 5, 2013)

The Haze Base- Base Hazer Pro is the closest thing you can find to a DF-50 without having to deal with all of the issues that come with the DF-50, like it being oil based, constantly covered with slime, and sounding like a small two cycle engine. 

The size of the Base Hazer Pro is spectacular compared to the output. A tiny rack sized item that can fill an arena to a ballroom. I have successfully filled outdoor sheds and arenas with 2 of these units with their pump settings set anywhere between 20 and 40. I have never used a hazer that was this nice and easy. For most venues I usually just take 1 unit and a fan, like places seating below 1000 people, and it is fantastic.


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## JamesSullivan (Apr 5, 2013)

thenelsontwins said:


> The Haze Base- Base Hazer Pro is the closest thing you can find to a DF-50 without having to deal with all of the issues that come with the DF-50, like it being oil based, constantly covered with slime, and sounding like a small two cycle engine.
> 
> The size of the Base Hazer Pro is spectacular compared to the output. A tiny rack sized item that can fill an arena to a ballroom. I have successfully filled outdoor sheds and arenas with 2 of these units with their pump settings set anywhere between 20 and 40. I have never used a hazer that was this nice and easy. For most venues I usually just take 1 unit and a fan, like places seating below 1000 people, and it is fantastic.



I would like to go with this hazer for space constrains. I have access to a DF-50 but it has a large case and we do not have much room to spare.

I did how ever read that the DF-50 specs: 

*Power: 110 - 125v /4 amp or 220v/2.0 (50-60) cycle 
100-125V 4.6A 
200-240V 1.9A 
(50 or 60 Hz) *

and the Hazebase pro:

*Power requirement: 230VAC, 50 Hz, 1500W*

So with DF-50 I can use when I go to Europe and the Hazebase pro I can not.


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## Les (Apr 5, 2013)

JamesSullivan said:


> So with DF-50 I can use when I go to Europe and the Hazebase pro I can not.



You might want to call and confirm that with Haze Base before you make any decisions. I don't remember the specifics, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has an auto-sensing input.


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## len (Apr 5, 2013)

If you're traveling overseas, there's no way I'd consider carrying equipment beyond instruments, and even then I think I'd leave any vintage, irreplaceable stuff at home. Voltage differences, power adapters, issues with bringing stuff into another country, sounds like too much headache to me. I THINK Look Solutions are big in Europe, and they make some very good products. I saw one they make/made that fits into a rack case that's about 4 spaces. 

Another thing about carrying liquids on to planes (even if they were allowed) is that the likelihood of the box riding upright are pretty slim, which means that the reservoir will spill and you could be liable for damage to not only the hazer but to other passenger belongings as well. Maybe. 

The more you drill down on this thing the more flying with a hazer just doesn't make any sense to me.


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## JohnD (Apr 5, 2013)

Checking the brochure, it looks like there are two models available,
230V/50hz and
110V/60hz.


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## JamesSullivan (Apr 5, 2013)

len said:


> The more you drill down on this thing the more flying with a hazer just doesn't make any sense to me.



The band wants the haze. It is my job is to make it happen. We have many fly/drive shows in the US. I think going international I will not be bringing gear. Most likely ship it home for 2 weeks while we are abroad.


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 6, 2013)

Probably your best bet when overseas. I have heard some horror stories about bringing gear abroad and the AHJ not approving its use. There are some good companies over there that could probably hook you up easier than bringing the gear along.


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## MrsFooter (Apr 9, 2013)

If you do end up carrying your own hazer, please be aware that many venues have strict limitations pertaining to haze. In my own venue, we have sensitive smoke heads and the Fire Marshall in the basement, so we only allow haze under one configuration: oil-based haze only, on a house timer, no DMX control, and house gets some way of overriding power. If the road guy isn't willing to play by those rules, no haze. I swear I've spent half my life fighting with road guys because they don't like those limitations, and they never win. Ever. So if you do find yourself in a situation where the house doesn't allow your particular hazer, don't fight them. Listen, ask questions, ask for suggestions, and work with what they offer you, because chances are they're not trying to be a jerk, they're just trying to make sure the show goes off without the fire department showing up. Fighting with them will only end in tension and bad feelings, and you'll _still_ be without haze.


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## Les (Apr 10, 2013)

MrsFooter said:


> ...so we only allow haze under one configuration: oil-based haze only,...



Out of curiosity, what is the reason for this? Are your smoke detectors less sensitive to oil based haze or is there some other reason? 

I only ask because I have been to a handful of venues that say "water based only".


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## MrsFooter (Apr 11, 2013)

Les said:


> Out of curiosity, what is the reason for this? Are your smoke detectors less sensitive to oil based haze or is there some other reason?
> 
> I only ask because I have been to a handful of venues that say "water based only".



Our smoke heads are particle detectors, so they're equally sensitive to all kinds of haze. However, our experience has been that water-based haze, being heated, flies up to the grid (where our detectors are located) almost immediately and sets off the heads _much_ faster. The last time we tried a water-based hazer on deck we set off all five smoke heads within 10 minutes of turning it on without seeing any haze whatsoever in the air. (Hence the ban on water-based and the insistence on the timer.) Oil-based tends to hang lower, which means that we can get a decently thick haze while staying clear of the heads.

That's been our experience, and being 16 stories in the air in a concrete egg, people tend to get touchy about things like alarms and fire walls. It's just one of those areas where we don't play around.


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## thenelsontwins (Apr 15, 2013)

MrsFooter said:


> Our smoke heads are particle detectors, so they're equally sensitive to all kinds of haze. However, our experience has been that water-based haze, being heated, flies up to the grid (where our detectors are located) almost immediately and sets off the heads _much_ faster. The last time we tried a water-based hazer on deck we set off all five smoke heads within 10 minutes of turning it on without seeing any haze whatsoever in the air. (Hence the ban on water-based and the insistence on the timer.) Oil-based tends to hang lower, which means that we can get a decently thick haze while staying clear of the heads.
> 
> That's been our experience, and being 16 stories in the air in a concrete egg, people tend to get touchy about things like alarms and fire walls. It's just one of those areas where we don't play around.




All good points here. Of course, many places I go we can get smoke detectors deactivated, but it typically involves strict schedule for use, sometimes it involves an actual fire marshal to sit on fire watch, twiddling their thumbs, which costs more money, and if the venue is going to shut things off, it always seems to involve some kind of fee. Smoke detectors are for suckers! haha. I'm kidding. 

At the company I work for, we are not allowed to use oil based haze under any circumstances as the Video department claims that the oil gets sucked into their projectors and collects, coating everything that the intake fans blow across. I don't know if this is an actual fact, but they are adamant that this is true. So adamant, in fact, that they have billed the lighting department for lamp replacement at $20k a pop. Therefore, we don't go down that road anymore. I'm sure next time they'll charge us for the whole projector and when you're out with a half dozen big guns that will add up fast. Video always seems to win arguments, the jerks.

And yes there are two different models of the Haze Base unit. 

I wouldn't put that thing on an airplane, but that's just me. I wouldn't put any hazer on an airplane based on the fact that they are typically disgusting and slimy, even if they are in a second container, whatever they come near becomes immediately coated with hazer goo. Plus, the added problem of getting the old eyeball from whatever security agency you come across. They're going to be confused enough by what it is and compound that with the fact that it is sticky and greasy and generally gross, even if it is drained of fluid. 

But, you may be able to locate the identical hazer in Europe. 

Good luck!


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## ruinexplorer (Apr 17, 2013)

If your video team is willing, I can give them some tips on dealing with haze. Personally, I haven't been a part of video departments that win arguments, so I have learned how to take care of the projectors better. However, they are correct that the fog juice will muck with the inards of the projectors and if proper maintenance is not performed, it can cause quite a few different failures.


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## LavaASU (Apr 17, 2013)

thenelsontwins said:


> At the company I work for, we are not allowed to use oil based haze under any circumstances as the Video department claims that the oil gets sucked into their projectors and collects, coating everything that the intake fans blow across. I don't know if this is an actual fact, but they are adamant that this is true. So adamant, in fact, that they have billed the lighting department for lamp replacement at $20k a pop. Therefore, we don't go down that road anymore. I'm sure next time they'll charge us for the whole projector and when you're out with a half dozen big guns that will add up fast. Video always seems to win arguments, the jerks.



Oil based haze requiring lamp replacements seems a bit odd. Unless they let haze residue build up to the point the lamp failed perhaps. Projectors (like moving lights) seem to act as pretty good air filters by sucking anything and everything in the air in and coating all the insides. Haze makes it worse because the dust sticks to the haze and traps heat potentially causing overheating and eventually damage. However water based haze/fog will do that too. Projectors (like any other equipment with fans) used in nasty environments need to be cleaned periodically. Projectors are a bit more complicated and delicate than a lot of equipment, so a lot of shops do send them out instead of doing it in house (yeah, try finding a decent shop that can't clean movers in house).

Oh and Ruin is a gold mine on this subject. I'd suggest getting your video guys to take him up on that advice.


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