# Crew in our theatre can do



## Hughesie (Nov 3, 2007)

yes it's going to be another one of those, laugh and be afraid of what we do ever day, and a don't ask where i work moments

a dot point list of things that are against OH&S that crew, who are mostly around 15 carry out everyday in our theatre.


Operate a AWP (aerial work platform)
Operate a Counterweight fly system
Plug in 3 phase power supplies (for dimmers)
climb to the top of our stage above our fly system and walk across without a harness (over 10 meters up)
Conduct solo lighting bump in's (administration thing, they don't want people standing around, so if it's a one man job they only want one man)
community thoughts


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## icewolf08 (Nov 3, 2007)

Is there anywhere in the US where OSHA says you can't do any of these things? At least the top three I don't think require any formal certs. I am not sure about working on the grid. Most of the grids I have worked on you would have to be about 3" thin to go through the channel irons. As for loading in lighting alone, does that mean that a DJ can't load in his own gear alone for a gig down there? He has to have help? But really, you shouldn't talk about having crew standing around, because Local 1 may be going on strike because the producers want to change the number of people who get paid to stand around.


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## Hughesie (Nov 3, 2007)

have a look at this

http://www.alexhughes.bravehost.com/files/safetycode.pdf

1.2 Elevated Work Platforms (EWPs)
“Elevated work platforms” include self-elevating work platforms (SEWPs) such as Cougars, Genie Lifts, Maxi-lifts,
Scissor Lifts, as well as Tallescopes, lighting and sound bridges, balconies, etc.
· Equipment must be appropriate to the job and used in accordance with specifications and Australian Standards,
in particular:
o use the most appropriate EWP for the job;
o only operators competent in the use of the particular equipment may use it;
o use equipment in accordance with the manufacturer’s specifications;
o if equipment is modified, appropriate risk assessment must be undertaken and an engineer’s certificate
obtained.
· Safe working practices must be used with all EWPs, including:
o never exceed the safe working load for the EWP;
o maintain each EWP in good working order and inspect it daily;


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## soundman (Nov 4, 2007)

In the states there is no piece of paper that says you can operate a lift or not. There are people that will gladly sell their services to teach people how to operate lifts saftly but I have never been asked for paper work when using a scissors lift. Fork lifts are differnts, thats a day class at a tech school...


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## Hughesie (Nov 4, 2007)

in australia the 70's and 80's saw to many accidents, so that paperwork was introduced


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## Logos (Nov 4, 2007)

Also we in Australia live in an increasingly paternalistic nanny state that says that the Government has a duty to protect you from everything and therefore we are constantly plagued with new laws that don't actually acheive anything but simply make our life harder.

Libertarian rant over.


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## derekleffew (Nov 4, 2007)

soundman said:


> In the states there is no piece of paper that says you can operate a lift or not. There are people that will gladly sell their services to teach people how to operate lifts safely but I have never been asked for paper work when using a scissor lift...


I beg to differ. At many venues in Las Vegas one cannot operate an AWP without attending THAT PROPERTY'S certification class. Even if you have a "license" from one of the rental houses that teach the course ON THE SAME PROPERTY--if you earned it somewhere else, it doesn't count. It's an insurance thing, I'm told. You've never operated a lift for IATSE, IBEW, or Teamster's in a convention center, have you?


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## Hughesie (Nov 4, 2007)

logos is right, but i can see why, hum elevated work platform what if i put something between this SCISSOR LIFT ARMS i wonder what will happen, hum what do scissors do again OUCH MY ARM

that is why schools stay away from things like that we have a "genie" awp with goes up in sections, which is safer


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## soundman (Nov 4, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> I beg to differ. At many venues in Las Vegas one cannot operate an AWP without attending THAT PROPERTY'S certification class. Even if you have a "license" from one of the rental houses that teach the course ON THE SAME PROPERTY--if you earned it somewhere else, it doesn't count. It's an insurance thing, I'm told. You've never operated a lift for IATSE, IBEW, or Teamster's in a convention center, have you?



Nope not in a convention center but I have in theatres. The few times I've worked in convention centers I've been a hands off gear wrangler. I don't know what kind of certification the lift operators had because I was just there to get the gear and get out. I'm sure IBEW would have had problems with my going up in a lift to pull the points down myself but my lack of certification would have been on the bottom of that list.


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## derekleffew (Nov 4, 2007)

I apologize if I sounded harsh. It's been so long since I've worked (in a) real theatre that I forget that the rules, practices, and SOPs are very different than those to which I have become accustomed.


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## derekleffew (Nov 4, 2007)

Hughesie89 said:


> logos is right, but i can see why, hum elevated work platform what if i put something between this SCISSOR LIFT ARMS i wonder what will happen, hum what do scissors do again OUCH MY ARM
> 
> that is why schools stay away from things like that we have a "genie" awp with goes up in sections, which is safer


Not sure I follow what you're trying to express due to poor punctuation and grammar, but both scissor lifts and single-person personnel lifts are equally safe when used properly. In my town the "drivable" single-person lifts are fairly rare (and height-challenged), thus my preference for "scissor-type" lifts. It would be next to impossible to get one's limbs into the mechanism of a scissor lift from the platform, and even from the ground, all current models have the audible alarms and flashing lights to warn bystanders of danger.

You may think the one pictured is safer, but seldom is the worker going to descend, lift all four out-riggers, move the lift six feet to the left, screw back down the out-riggers, and ascend to change the next sconce bulb (at least I think that's what he's doing the the picture.) Not unless he's alone with no one on the ground to move his lift manually, and we've discussed how it's unsafe to work alone. Non-drivable while-at-height lifts encourage over-reaching, which IS a safety hazard. Just my tuppence._ Mary Poppins_ looks awesome on HD, BTW.


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## jonhirsh (Nov 4, 2007)

In canada. You must be certified per lift type. So boom lift, scissors, one man genie. This is based on insurance for the lift provider and for the producer. I know this as i produce events and i have to acquire insurance for the events. 

Most lift rental places will do it for you. 
I have been asked on numerous occasions to show my lift cert. 
JH


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## Van (Nov 4, 2007)

soundman said:


> In the states there is no piece of paper that says you can operate a lift or not. There are people that will gladly sell their services to teach people how to operate lifts saftly but I have never been asked for paper work when using a scissors lift. Fork lifts are differnts, thats a day class at a tech school...


 
Well I can tell you in the State of Oregon you don't go up in a lift as an IA member without certification for use of that lift, in THAT particular facility. ie, If I'm at the Rose Garden running a scissor lift, Great!, I cannot, however go to the Expo center and run a scissor 'cause I have not been certified for that Venue. These rules apply to the use of Forklifts, tractors, boom lifts, or any other heavy equipment. I think the rules are a bit overboard, but they exist. When you work at enough venues your lanyard starts to look a bit silly, with 200 peieces of paper hanging from it; seperate security badges for every venue, passes for different areas of each venue, materials handling certification for every venue, Backstage passes, I finally had to make three different lanyards according to what venue I'd be working in .


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## Hughesie (Nov 4, 2007)

derekleffew said:


> You may think the one pictured is safer, but seldom is the worker going to descend, lift all four out-riggers, move the lift six feet to the left, screw back down the out-riggers, and ascend to change the next sconce bulb (at least I think that's what he's doing the the picture.) Not unless he's alone with no one on the ground to move his lift manually, and we've discussed how it's unsafe to work alone. Non-drivable while-at-height lifts encourage over-reaching, which IS a safety hazard.



yeah we normally only have it so all the outriggers "register" and then we can move it easily, but we make the operator descend to half the normal operating height before doing so


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## gafftaper (Nov 4, 2007)

It's interesting that the US certification is all driven by the individual business and their fear of law suits while in Oz it's government driven for the safety of the citizens. While I too hate the "nany state" laws, it sure makes a lot more sense to have one license good at any venue than the insanity Van just described.


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## Hughesie (Nov 4, 2007)

yes i agree, there are two things you can get

a EWP certificate 
and a EWP Licence, the licence allows you to work on anything that extends over 11m
and the certification is anything below 11m, but seriously who really works at that high on theatre, i know in concerts you might but not in theatre and the course i am looking at gives a certificate.


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## icewolf08 (Nov 5, 2007)

In the US it is about CYA. People aren't afraid that workers will get hurt, they are afraid that hurt workers will file suit. So, if I borrow a lift from custodial services on campus, I have to do their training course because then they believe that I can't sue them if I get hurt using their lift. If I use my lift, no one cares, but I do train every crew person in safe practices.


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## Grog12 (Nov 6, 2007)

Logos said:


> Also we in Australia live in an increasingly paternalistic nanny state that says that the Government has a duty to protect you from everything and therefore we are constantly plagued with new laws that don't actually acheive anything but simply make our life harder.
> Libertarian rant over.



Wait...are you sure you don't live in the states?


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## Hughesie (Nov 6, 2007)

Grog12 said:


> Wait...are you sure you don't live in the states?




nope he's an aussie "he has a pirate bath mat 

all Australians are convicts, or guards of convicts, and they came across the seas to our boundless plains in boats,


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