# Radial Arm Saw or Sliding Miter Saw; Which is safer for h.s. students of all ages?



## jcfalc01 (Sep 9, 2015)

I am the leader of a team of folks that help build for the local high school theater programs. We work with high school aged kids from all walks of life. The theater shop has an old radial arm saw that cavitates a lot when cutting 2x lumber; not so much for luan or 1x lumber. I have purchased a 12" sliding compound miter saw. Which saw would you recommend for use by these young adults? I know that in my high school days (back in the 70's) the radial arm was considered GOLD. Our Radial Arm saw can only make 90 degree cuts and no longer locks behind the fence.
Thanks in advance for you help!


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## venuetech (Sep 9, 2015)

I retired my radial arm saw long long ago. A good table saw and miter saw are the main shop tools with very limited student access to the table saw.


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## gafftapegreenia (Sep 9, 2015)

The 12" sliding compound mitre saw is a workhorse. Our radial lives next to the wood rack. It's sole purpose is life in crosscutting lumber. 

The radial arm saw is a unique tool and I still have love for it but the mitre saw is just much more common and versatile. Although when I think about it, a 12" sliding mitre saw is a luxury. The ones we had in high school were 10" non sliding models, and we didn't even have a table saw until my senior class donated one at graduation.


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## StradivariusBone (Sep 9, 2015)

gafftapegreenia said:


> but the mitre saw is just much more common and versatile.



I respectfully hold judgement on that point. A radial arm can do everything a mitre saw can do, plus rip cut (albeit not the safest tool in the shop for that purpose). In our shop we have a 12" compound mitre, a table saw, a delta "frame and trim" saw and a couple of band saws. The HD near me has an old Craftsmen RAS that has been rigged to only straight cut. I had a nice talk one day with one of their lumber guys on the merits of the saw (and his disapproval in not being allowed to miter cuts) and seeing my 2nd cousin build some remarkable projects with one I have a great deal of respect for the saw. 

Granted, I do understand that it is a bit more dangerous to operate than your standard compound miter or chop saw, but when I finally get around to getting power out to my shed you can bet I'll be picking one up off Craigslist. 

As far as high school kids go, I teach everyone how to use the saws, but not everyone will get to cut wood. It's a choice that needs the approval of myself and the student before they get into the saddle on that one. It sounds like your RAS is in bad shape and using any tool that is not working properly can be a dangerous choice.


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## Colin (Sep 9, 2015)

Assuming a decently equipped shop with a table saw, I would favor a sliding miter saw. Safety-wise with high schoolers it is nice to be able to lock the slide when you don't need it, which is something the few sliding miters I've had could all do but not obviously the radial arm saw when cross cutting. The chopping motion seems easier for a novice of any age to control without loosing track of fingers or material. 

I am fond of my RAS, though. I don't need its versatility, but I like the idea of it. I keep it in cross cut mode with a (fairly thin) dado stack and that's all it does now. But I'm in a college shop not high school (been there, and they seem to gain a lot of control of their bodies somewhere in the transition) and I keep the saw locked out except for that specific purpose. Keeping a sharp blade with zero or negative hook helps a lot with creep, and I've never been uncomfortable even with the dado on mine, but still I might not have let my high school students use one, nor would I use it myself very often with a miter saw available.


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## bobgaggle (Sep 10, 2015)

I've been in a lot of shops and the one saw they always have is a chop saw. The RAS may show up from time to time, but as the above posts have said, they're usually relegated to cross cutting sticks or they serve as a storage table for more frequently used items. I'd say knowing how to use a RAS is a good skill to have in your back pocket, but generally they're not used much anymore. 

For what its worth, I've started cutting back on using the chop saw as well. The rest of the guys in the shop use it all the time but I've taken to using the table saw for almost all my cuts. I recently built a solid crosscut sled and its made chopping up cutlists actually enjoyable. I had never really noticed the fatigue that the chop saw causes from leaning sideways and bending over to line up the cut with the blade. I even souped up the miter gauge to work with longer pieces. Maybe worth considering, but I don't know what your rules are for students with the TS


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## jcfalc01 (Sep 10, 2015)

bobgaggle said:


> I've been in a lot of shops and the one saw they always have is a chop saw. The RAS may show up from time to time, but as the above posts have said, they're usually relegated to cross cutting sticks or they serve as a storage table for more frequently used items. I'd say knowing how to use a RAS is a good skill to have in your back pocket, but generally they're not used much anymore.
> 
> For what its worth, I've started cutting back on using the chop saw as well. The rest of the guys in the shop use it all the time but I've taken to using the table saw for almost all my cuts. I recently built a solid crosscut sled and its made chopping up cutlists actually enjoyable. I had never really noticed the fatigue that the chop saw causes from leaning sideways and bending over to line up the cut with the blade. I even souped up the miter gauge to work with longer pieces. Maybe worth considering, but I don't know what your rules are for students with the TS



Thanks! I've heard a lot about the table saw sleds for crosscuts and have recently been getting more info on what is good and works best. I hope to make one over the semester break. Too busy right now building to have that dedicated time to get it finished!


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## rsmentele (Sep 11, 2015)

I own and LOVE my Radial Arm saw! They are true multipurpose machines which can cross cut, compound miter cut and rip stock. They also make attachments to be used as a drill press, drum sander, molder, planer and of course dado cuts. Nothing performs a dado cut quite accurately and efficiently as a RAS. This all comes with the caveat as they are VERY dangerous machines and should be used with a lot of respect for that. They can kickback EXTREMELY easily as the blade is moving in the direction of the traveling head unit and if not controlled during the entire length of the cut, can get out of control quickly. 

I prefer to use my RAS for many operations, however; they can also come out of alignment easily and can lose accuracy. 

For the accuracy and safety issues, I also keep a table saw and sliding compound miter close at hand, as with beginning users, these are much more safe and accurate for them to use.


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## mikeydoesstuff (Sep 11, 2015)

Ultimately though, all the tools are dangerous and the training is the most important part, right?


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## Reggie (Oct 18, 2015)

How are you guarding the blade with the crosscut sled? Splitter and kickback fingers still in use? Table saw with a built-in sliding table would really be safer for crosscutting. Admittedly, not cheap.


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## JVTD (Oct 19, 2015)

Knock on wood, I have never had any problems with my students using our Sliding Miter Saw. In the fall we do training for all new students and if I see some sloppy Technique from the upper class-men I give them a refresher course. Really the key to safe operation of any tool is training. So what ever saw you pick make sure you are comfortable with it so that you can teach the safe operation to your students.


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## Reggie (Oct 19, 2015)

I was referring to cross-cut sleds. The blade exiting through the back of the sled fence is what scares me, even with minimal blade exposure above the wood to be cut. I'd rather have a RAS if not a sliding table, table saw.


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## bobgaggle (Oct 21, 2015)

Reggie said:


> How are you guarding the blade with the crosscut sled? Splitter and kickback fingers still in use? Table saw with a built-in sliding table would really be safer for crosscutting. Admittedly, not cheap.



A shop made sled can be just as safe as a format style TS. I don't use the riving knife because generally you don't have to worry about kick back when cross cutting with a sled. A firm grip on the work piece or toggle clamps on the sled are fine. I put of thumb guard on the back of mine to keep the blade from being exposed at the back of the sled.

Matthias Wandel (woodworking genius) built a sled an can explain it better than I can.
http://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/small_sled.html

He's got a big one for large boards too
https://woodgears.ca/delta_saw/sled.html


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## kevinatblinn (Oct 31, 2015)

In a previous shop, we used the SCMS for cross and miter cuts, and installed a dado blade (almost always set at 3/4") on the RAS. It was great to have the dado blade always ready to go, and we used it a lot more often because it didn't have to be setup each time.
Kevin


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## MikeJ (Nov 8, 2015)

This comes up every now and then, but Arm saws get a bad rep because people put the wrong blades on them. DO NOT put a table saw blade on a radial arm saw. This is the biggest mistake. The pitch of the teeth control how fast blade is pulled thru the wood, a table saw spins the opposite direction in relation to the operator. You need a "slower" blade for an arm saw than a table saw. Look up blades on the manufactures website, often the right info is not on the package, and the right blades are not in stock at home centers.

Knocking out a cutlist of 1 by or 2 by, is super fast and accurate with a well setup arm saw, and with a single blade, I can do dadoes as fast as changing the blade on a table saw.
Iv'e said it in the past, if you have the space a table saw and miter saw will be great, an arm saw is fantastic for crosscuting though. For the home garage with limited space, a radial arm saw is unbeatable for its versatility in limited space, but GET THE RIGHT BLADE. 

When you have the space and money, you get a table saw and three miter saws, or arm saws permanently set at -45, 0, and +45, then one more for odd angles.


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