# Locoloc v. Nicopress Swage Tools



## erosing (Nov 10, 2010)

As I was shopping this afternoon I went browsing some other items and noticed from the major suppliers I shop with, that the majority of them sold the Locoloc swaging tools over the Nicopress tools. I noticed that in comparison, the Locoloc tools seem to be cheaper by about $80-100. After doing a little searching I have found a few mentions that both brands of tool are very similar in their capabilities. Is there some transition to Loos & Co's tools I missed? When Sapsis, BMI, PA, etc are selling Loos & Co. and only Rosebrand is selling Nicopress I begin to question what the difference is between the two manufacturers, if there is one? 

Are there any reasons to go with one over the other?

I also noticed that in most cases the retailer sold the same sleeves as tools, however, BMI sells Loos & Co. tools but Nico (by name at least) sleeves. Is this just an oddity? I was taught to use the sleeves that go with the tool. While the tests of Mr. Hall reveal that, "Based on my test results, I would have to say that it makes little difference the manufacturer of the sleeves or the tool; all samples in my tests held a tensile load greater than the rated min. BS of the cable. (2,000 lbs.) before failing" (Swaging Comparison). Any comments or explanations on this are welcome as well. 

*I should note that my browsing was ONLY in the online selections of all mentioned companies at the present time, as I was doing just that, browsing.


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## Footer (Nov 10, 2010)

The Go/No-Go gauge goes with the same brand of tool no matter what. As long as it passes its go/no go you are fine. Always buy your sleeves from a trusted source such as BMI, Sapsis, Rose Brand, etc.


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## jstroming (Nov 10, 2010)

I am interested in this too, as I just bought a locoloc bench swager.


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## gafftaper (Nov 11, 2010)

Just to throw out another option. I purchased the Fehr Brothers Swaging tool kit. I think I paid about $300 for it... although it's been 4 years so that may be way off. It's a really nice starter kit for a theater. I don't do a lot of rigging so I'm not sure how it compares to the higher end stuff. But when you only need it half a dozen times a year it's a great option.


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## Van (Nov 11, 2010)

Hey ! I just bought a new Nico Press tool too ! My previous one was stolen. Here's a question, is it "Nee-co" or is it "Nye - co"
Oh and I purchase mine at my local Hardware store for $125. Luckily they also carry a full range of Quality sleeves and accessories for your every swaging need.


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## JustinTech (Nov 11, 2010)

Interesting, I learned what Swaging was...

I had only just recently heard the term on here...but after clicking the in-thread link to the wiki I discovered that I knew it by another name via another medium...Farming. My step-father and family just called them crimps, and bolt-cutters/crimper. We used them for fencing purposes, and I suppose never had as much as 100#s of force so brand-wise I doubt it made a difference back then.


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## What Rigger? (Nov 11, 2010)

My personal experience has always been with, and only with, Nico tools (aka National Telephone). I always use like-with-like when it comes to tools and hardware. As with all things rigging wise, you HAVE GOT to know how to use these tools. For instance: number of compressions for the size sleeve you're using. Which cavity in the die to use for what size wire rope/sleeve combo, and-here's the biggie- how and *when* to adjust the tool.

If you don't know this stuff and how to do it properly, don't go making things with swaging tools.

And: just to show off, I know how to make compressions all by myself with the hand held tool. No bench needed. Why do people think I'm some kind of freak?


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## derekleffew (Nov 11, 2010)

What Rigger? said:


> ...For instance: number of compressions for the size sleeve you're using. Which cavity in the die to use for what size wire rope/sleeve combo, and-here's the biggie- how and *when to adjust the tool. ...*


*
And, something that may be news to many, the order in which one makes the crimps matters! Check with the manufacturer of your tool for recommendations.*


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## Van (Nov 11, 2010)

What Rigger? said:


> ...
> And: just to show off, I know how to make compressions all by myself with the hand held tool. No bench needed. Why do people think I'm some kind of freak?


 
There's a bench mount ?


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## Footer (Nov 11, 2010)

Van said:


> There's a bench mount ?


 
Yup. They are great. 



There is also a bench mount plate for the C-9's. 



No rigging box should be without one...


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## What Rigger? (Nov 11, 2010)

Nice, Van! Very nice! Yeah, I get tons of people who don't believe you can use the hand tool solo.

Derek is also right, you have to do the crimps in correct order. Again, go with what the manufacturer states. (This topic has been hotly contested for years in terms of what order, when in fact I thought the answer was obvious)

And no matter what your buddy says, don't put your tongue in there!


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## mstaylor (Nov 11, 2010)

OK, stupid question coming. In all my experience I have never made made cables except light duty stuff with Crosbys. How does one learn the proper way to perform this process? I know guys that have done it but as stated, there is a running argument about how to crimp properly. Can you simply read the directions supplied? I don't plan to make any cables anytime soon but I'm curious. I'm a gluton for learning new things.


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## Footer (Nov 11, 2010)

mstaylor said:


> OK, stupid question coming. In all my experience I have never made made cables except light duty stuff with Crosbys. How does one learn the proper way to perform this process? I know guys that have done it but as stated, there is a running argument about how to crimp properly. Can you simply read the directions supplied? I don't plan to make any cables anytime soon but I'm curious. I'm a gluton for learning new things.


 
Jay Glerum has a step by step in his "Stage Rigging Handbook". In the book he states that the order you compress the sleeve in does not matter, so just throwing that out there. I own the second edition, this might have changed in the newest 3rd edition.


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## erosing (Nov 11, 2010)

Footer said:


> Jay Glerum has a step by step in his "Stage Rigging Handbook". In the book he states that the order you compress the sleeve in does not matter, so just throwing that out there. I own the second edition, this might have changed in the newest 3rd edition.


 
Off memory, I believe, either Donovan or Glerum made a mistake, I want to say it was Glerum. And that the third edition was updated to reflect his conversations with the manufacturers. I will verify when I get home.


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## erosing (Nov 11, 2010)

It was Glerum, he notes, "one of the corrections I this edition of Stage Rigging Handbook is the order of making crimps in a sleeve...after a great deal of discussion with engineers at both Loos & Co. and Nicopress, one of the orders...is not recommended, due the elongation of the sleeve that occurs during this swaging process" (211-212). 

Mods please focus on this part for possible removal, given it's more on safety than anything else I'm including it for the moment. The "correct" orders are (top to bottom) 123, 321, 213. The orders considered "incorrect" are: 132 and 231.


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## MPowers (Nov 12, 2010)

Van said:


> There's a bench mount ?


 
Yup! Sapsis Rigging Inc.: Cable Tools


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## MPowers (Nov 12, 2010)

As several have pointed out, and the load lab tests by Delbert Hall seem to verify, mixing brands of sleeves and tools does not seem to make a difference. However, if you are an installer, don't mix. Your insurance company and their lawyers will agree. The reason is no manufacturer will guarantee another manufacturers product. So, if you mix, and there is a failure, all the manufacturers will claim it is the other companies product that was responsible. The result will be that, you, as the installer who did not follow the instructions with the tool or the sleeve not to mix, are at fault because you mixed products. 

I would like the major tool/sleeve makers to get together and officially declare that tool A will work with sleeve B & C and so forth. However, I'm not going to hold my breath until that happens.


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## Van (Nov 12, 2010)

Perhaps today I shall scan and PDF the little owners manual I got with my new Nico Tool. It has a very handy chart with; the size of sleeve, nuber and order of crimps. 
< Yes, all, I know there is a Bench mount version, it was a joke as I've never owned one. I tend to do things the hard way. It's part of my Charm!>


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## erosing (Feb 5, 2011)

Arez said:


> It was Glerum, he notes, "one of the corrections I this edition of Stage Rigging Handbook is the order of making crimps in a sleeve...after a great deal of discussion with engineers at both Loos & Co. and Nicopress, one of the orders...is not recommended, due the elongation of the sleeve that occurs during this swaging process" (211-212).
> 
> Mods please focus on this part for possible removal, given it's more on safety than anything else I'm including it for the moment. The "correct" orders are (top to bottom) 123, 321, 213. The orders considered "incorrect" are: 132 and 231.



Some corrections to my above post:

I was perusing Glerum's book this morning looking for something and I of course got distracted and started reading other parts and I came upon a realization that while the information I listed above is correct, it is not complete, the example listed is only for when 3 crimps are required by your specific swaging tool. Also of note is that Glerum specifically is referencing 1/4" wire rope in his examples. Now this is mildly obvious, except I then remembered the instructions that came with my tool were more specific than what Glerum wrote. So, I went ahead and pulled out the instructions for my Nicropress 63-V-XPM which say:

> Using the proper NICORPESS tool, swage the sleeve with the correct number of presses, spacing the presses evenly on the sleeve. If more than 1 compression is required per sleeve, use the pressing sequence shown above [SEE BELOW].




> Eye – |2 1 3 4|



One should always consult their own tool's instructions however.


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## 65535 (Feb 18, 2011)

What Rigger? said:


> Nice, Van! Very nice! Yeah, I get tons of people who don't believe you can use the hand tool solo.
> 
> Derek is also right, you have to do the crimps in correct order. Again, go with what the manufacturer states. (This topic has been hotly contested for years in terms of what order, when in fact I thought the answer was obvious)
> 
> And no matter what your buddy says, don't put your tongue in there!



I know you can crimp solo (and I don't like my co-workers hands around the crimp head) but it certainly isn't the quickest way to crimp. I wish we had a bench mount, I've considering setting up a rig so I could clamp our Nico tools to the bench to crimp.

We use Nico-Press exclusively, I believe Klein Cutters as well, but it's been awhile since I've pulled them out, we have a good stock of pre-made lines.


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## Sean (Feb 19, 2011)

gafftaper said:


> Just to throw out another option. I purchased the Fehr Brothers Swaging tool kit. I think I paid about $300 for it... although it's been 4 years so that may be way off.



Fehr sells Loos stuff. If you investigate I suspect you'll see you have a Loos tool.


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