# Educating a Director



## SeanR (Aug 1, 2011)

I'm sure that if this exists, it is somewhere on the forum but I have been unable to find it.

I am a new TD and Light Designer for a show produced by a small and fairly new (non paying) theatre company. We go to tech next week. 

I have spent most of the last month going between the director and the scene designer to iron out the set design. The director is making demand that fundamentally effect the scene designer's plan. For example, "the prow of the greek war boat will no longer look like a greek war boat if we were to put stairs there." No this staircase is not crucial to the show.

I have recently discovered that the director has also written the lighting cues for the show and is demanding no blackouts.

At this point, I need to have a frank discussion with her about where the lines of these various jobs are and if she is unwilling to respect these roles, that I will not be "lighting designer."

In my experience with this director, this conversation would go faster and is more likely to be positive if I can produce some sort of industry standard as far as where these lines are. I know there is alot of grey area as well but right now I believe we have crossed well beyond that grey are. If I can get her back in that grey area, I am willing to compromise with her to get the rest done.

Any help or advice is appreciated.


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## shiben (Aug 1, 2011)

SeanR said:


> I'm sure that if this exists, it is somewhere on the forum but I have been unable to find it.
> 
> I am a new TD and Light Designer for a show produced by a small and fairly new (non paying) theatre company. We go to tech next week.
> 
> ...


 
Sounds to me like you need to have the "facilitator or designer" discussion. Find out if they want you facilitate their plans or design the show. Are you just going to be drafting a plot for the LX crew to accommodate their cues/plans, or are you designing each look and making the plans yourself? If he/she has decided where she wants light cues, thats fairly normal... Hopefully you have already written all of yours, at least in a book or something. That way you can just sit down with the director and start programing, reading thru the script and marking where they go. Then he/she can add in cues as they like or change the ones you have, giving you an opportunity to work with them to get a product you both like. As for "no blackouts" thats kind of typical, I get requests like that all the time, and it happens. It also works pretty well if there are no set changes. I did Hamlet last spring with 1 blackout at the top of act 2, mainly on a request from the director. 

As for an industry standard, I would imagine that United Scenic Artists would have some definitions on what a Lighting Designer and Set designer's responsibilities are, And the directors guild might have some ideas as to how the director interacts with them, but. Each situation is different, and especially in small and cheap theaters, it gets dicey onto some sort of industry standard. Unless you are under a Union coversheet, I doubt that there is any real standard that says "the LD must design the lights, cues, etc. the Scenic Designer must design the set, etc."


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## Esoteric (Aug 1, 2011)

You know, it all depends. And that is why any designer before they take a gig need to have a heart to heart with the Director.

Two Examples:

Most of the time I work with companies and I am totally autonomous (well, as much as you can be in any group collaboration). But over lighting I have complete control. For example if I want a lamp to be a functioning special (assuming it is possible) then I get a functioning special (even though the lamp is actually under the scenic designer).

I did a show with another show with a different company. I had a guest Director for my first show with them and I functioned with my usual autonomy. I thought that was how all the Directors in that company worked. Little did I know.... I did the next show with the Artistic Director, and he yelled at me for where I hung the lights (he wanted them all hung from the grid for a sense of "urgency" whatever that means, while I had a healthy FOH hang in this particular show), he made me do the most mind numbingly thorough paper tech (as thorough as a paper tech can be anyway, to me they are just a big waste of time), and then would not let me change any levels during rehearsal.

That was the last time I worked with that company (I was scheduled to do 4 more shows with them, but we canceled those contracts by mutual agreement).

The lesson? Have a real heart to heart about your role with the show.

I have no problem being an ME or programmer, but you are going to pay my ME or programmer rates (which no community theater could afford), I give discounts on my design fee if the show sounds fun, but you do not get an ME for a discounted design fee.


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## tolienbosheit (Aug 1, 2011)

Shiben is correct I think. Sit the director down and have them explain to you, in black and white terms, what they expect from you as a Lighting Designer. Each person has there own thoughts and opinions, but ultimately the director has the final say for a production's artistic vision. I personally believe that it is my job as a designer to facilitate the director's artistic concept and vision. Now, that is not to say I don't have my own concepts and ideas that I bring to the table - in fact it is precisely those ideas that will further the director's vision. You were chosen because you have a special skill-set the director doesn't have or doesn't have time to use: You know lighting, and you know how to achieve a look - whether you're young or not, you had to in order to get the gig.

I would strongly urge you against striking a hard-line stance. This is a collaborative art, in all its aspects, and you can learn a lot from working with others. I know the frustration of feeling like your toes are being stepped on and your artistic vision isn't being realized. What you have to recognize it the director has a specific vision - you are there to fulfill it. When I started designing, I worked with a director who was very strict about what they wanted - it was their way or the highway. I had a hard time listening at first, but I realized that if I could tactfully engage the director in conversation concerning a cue I wasn't satisfied with, I was allowed to show an alternative solution. More often than not the director liked what I had done better, but the only way I was able to show them was in the moment and by very, very tactfully - and quickly - explaining what I didn't like about a cue and being able to immediately offer a solution. If the director didn't like my alternative or didn't want to see it, we moved on. The important part was that they subsequently paid more attention to that cue - maybe coming to agree with me after a later run - and began to trust my design work. I now have fairly free reign when working with that director as they have come to trust me and my work and know that they can easily reign me in if I start to step outside of their vision.

Since that first design, I've worked with a couple more directors who operate in a similar fashion. I've found it best to talk to them and find out what they're looking for in a designer. Generally they want you to create the framework within which their vision can thrive. Remember that designing the light plot is just as important as designing the look of each cue. They are relying on you to be able to create the vision in their head, and the look on their face opening night when you've succeeded is a real treat. As for having written cues and demanding no blackouts, my best advice is to just roll with the punches. Like I said before, it something feels out of place you should mention your concern (but not before you have seen it for yourself, it may just fit! You'll never know if you never try) and offer an alternative solution. As for the not having blackouts, that isn't the end of the world. Like Shiben said it works well if there are no scene changes and can even work well with scene changes if you're doing a show that lends itself to meta-theatrics. Besides that, it will force you to stretch your creative muscles and grow in new directions - never a bad thing in the arts! 

Ultimately, you need to support the director's vision. You should do everything in your power to not burn a bridge, especially when you're young, and that means you need to compromise, collaborate, and, sometimes, go against your better judgement and just give them what they want. I recently was in a similar (though opposite) situation with your blackout concern - I didn't want any except at the end of the first and second acts (two act show). The director demanded that there was one at the end of act one, scene one despite the fact we had set up a convention of transition lights between scenes. We ran the show through three full tech rehearsals before the director decided that they had been wrong and it felt out of place to have the blackout at the end of the first scene and that I was correct. On the other hand, the show I'm working on currently (with a director who writes where she wants every light cue) has a couple rough points, in my opinion, that could have been handled better. But when I suggested the alternatives, the director didn't like it and didn't want to hear it. It happens, I rolled with it - pick and choose the battles you can win and those you can't win, life's to short to sweat the small stuff.

I wish you the best of luck on your design, let us know how it turns out!

~Aaron


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## SeanR (Aug 1, 2011)

Thank you all for your responses. They have been very helpful in putting this in perspective.

Aaron, as someone who has also directed, I feel like I need to make it clear that I really do appreciate what your saying, I recognize that compromising is crucial. There has been a tremendous amount of compromise on this show already, and we haven't even hit tech week yet.

I certainly don't plan on burning any bridges. This is a small town, and these are good people (even the director.) The line I am trying to draw is whether I can or am willing to put my name on this show. I will still be there tech week in some capacity.

I think Shiben said it perfectly, the facilitator or designer discussion is clearly long over due with both the company and the director. I will double check the USA website to see if they have any guidelines. I don't want to draw hard lines in the side. (I fairly sure that would be impossible to do anyway.) But using some guidelines from an organization or other theatre as a starting point would save time and make sure we all have the same starting point during this discussion.


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## mstaylor (Aug 5, 2011)

It sounds like you are still designing the lights, plot, colors and most other aspects. I have done a mix of cues between the director and I many times. If worse comes to worse, make it a codesign.


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## shiben (Aug 5, 2011)

mstaylor said:


> It sounds like you are still designing the lights, plot, colors and most other aspects. I have done a mix of cues between the director and I many times. If worse comes to worse, make it a codesign.


 
And I think that in this situation, if the director is really designing all the cues, thats where I would come down with it. I would not place myself in a facilitator role unless I got something to the effect of "I want a blue wash here, a red wash here, front light needs to be amber and blue..." At that point I would A, do as Esoteric thought and make the producer to bump me to a programer rate and B drop my name from the design. In the OP's situation, it sounds like the director is just used to having crappy LDs who need to be led around to get good results. And FWIW, I think that directors need to keep their nose out of placing cues. If you dont like a cue I design, fine we can cut/change it. However. When I come in and you have all your cues written out, I now need to come up with ideas for each cue instead of let the show decide where they need to go for me... Had a director once who did this to me, and the light cues suffered, not because I didnt try or even that the placement was bad, but I felt that the mood shifts were forced, the transitions awkward. The reason? The director had no lighting experience, and had only ever worked with LDs who I can best describe as useless. They were used to having to make every cue up for themselves, with their prior LDs working basically as programers and light plot drawers. Suddenly someone who knows whats up shows up and the system doesnt work. My guess is thats what happened for the OP, so the best way to make sure it wont happen again is to prove your good enough not to need that kind of guidance.


> I did the next show with the Artistic Director, and he yelled at me for where I hung the lights (he wanted them all hung from the grid for a sense of "urgency" whatever that means, while I had a healthy FOH hang in this particular show), he made me do the most mind numbingly thorough paper tech (as thorough as a paper tech can be anyway, to me they are just a big waste of time), and then would not let me change any levels during rehearsal.



Seriously? Thats outrageous. He really should have speced that from the beginning, no? I mean, I understand the urgency thing, he wants all the lights more intense and at steep angles to bring that harsher look out... But he should have said that in the first production meeting. Next, changing lights during a rehearsal? Does he know thats how a tech works? If your worried about actors, make them stop moving. If your not and want to direct them some more, start doing your job and direct, right? Sheesh. Remind me never to work with that guy... I would make noise back at him...


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## tolienbosheit (Aug 5, 2011)

shiben;223308 In the OP's situation said:


> led[/autolink] around to get good results. And FWIW, I think that directors need to keep their nose out of placing cues. If you dont like a cue I design, fine we can cut/change it. However. When I come in and you have all your cues written out, I now need to come up with ideas for each cue instead of let the show decide where they need to go for me... Had a director once who did this to me, and the light cues suffered, not because I didnt try or even that the placement was bad, but I felt that the mood shifts were forced, the transitions awkward. The reason? The director had no lighting experience, and had only ever worked with LDs who I can best describe as useless. They were used to having to make every cue up for themselves, with their prior LDs working basically as programers and light plot drawers. Suddenly someone who knows whats up shows up and the system doesnt work. My guess is thats what happened for the OP, so the best way to make sure it wont happen again is to prove your good enough not to need that kind of guidance.



So the question remains, how do you go about proving you don't need that kind of guidance to a director who has always needed to give it? You're not going to be able to change their mind outright just by telling them you're better than anyone they've worked with - not without first having proved yourself. I agree that there is a possibility for the looks to suffer, but if you have intelligent conversation and create a atmosphere of collaboration you should be able to mitigate most, if not all, of that.

~Aaron


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## mstaylor (Aug 6, 2011)

Go through and write your cues. When you sit down you will have your list of cues. If he wants one where you didn't have one then discuss if it is appropriate. If he doesn't have one where you think there should be one, suggest it and see if it flys. It may end up being a good mix. He may decide you have a good eye for what should happen and back away. Don't go it with a closed mind and don't be confrontational.


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## SeanR (Aug 8, 2011)

tolienbosheit said:


> So the question remains, how do you go about proving you don't need that kind of guidance to a director who has always needed to give it? You're not going to be able to change their mind outright just by telling them you're better than anyone they've worked with - not without first having proved yourself. I agree that there is a possibility for the looks to suffer, but if you have intelligent conversation and create a atmosphere of collaboration you should be able to mitigate most, if not all, of that.
> 
> ~Aaron



I absolutely agree, an atmosphere of collaboration is really all that's necessary. I ended up contacting the board about the issue to clarify what their policy would be. The result was a board member came to mediate the discussion. The director said, "yes that's what I want, and I'm sorry if my expectations get in the way of you "having fun with your lights."

I just had to share this part because I looking for some perspective. I'm curious if anyone else would find that statement under these types of conditions pretty darn offensive, Especially when you aren't being paid.


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## DuckJordan (Aug 8, 2011)

I had the same issue with a director not more than 3 months ago. Yes it was a loaded statement and I ended up walking away from the production. Just as you I wasn't getting paid but when I went back to grab my equipment the director and I had a discussion about what my job as an LD was. He voiced his concerns about not getting the light output he wanted and I told him where I felt constrained and unable to do my job. In this situation, the director has already made up their mind. And without knowing how far off opening is you may be stuck as being a facilitator.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## gafftapegreenia (Aug 8, 2011)

Ah I've been in this situation too many times now. I know I surely did my part in keeping Milwaukee the most inebriated town in the Midwest.


But seriously, all I can do is agree with the advice that has been given so far and just say that, in the end, some people are @$$-holes no matter what and learning to deal with them is part of the job. This stuff is far too common, and I've come to expect it.


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## mstaylor (Aug 8, 2011)

The crack about playing with your lights is very condescending and just shows that he had no clue the difficulty of your job or appreciate the skill involved. 
I had a director once that was a professional graphic designer. He chose all the gel and would take no imput from me. He was a graphic designer and "knew" how to mix color. I tried to explain that mixing colors on paper was different than mixing in light. Luckily I ordered what he wanted but also my choices. Three guesses who's choice made the show.


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## SeanR (Aug 17, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the comments and advice. If nothing else it was nice to have people to commiserate with. Ultimately I ended up taking my name off the show as LD and the board and I will be siting down for a LONG series of talks about the role tech should play in theater.

I'm sure I'll be coming back to you guys once that process starts.


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