# DIY clearcom or cheap solution



## curtis73 (Mar 2, 2019)

I work for a non-profit community theater. Budget is always tight, so we've never had clearcoms. We usually come up with some hand signals or DMX a signal light backstage. We did have walkies with earbuds for a bit which works well for before and after curtain, but it's a 50 x 60' blackbox with an exposed booth. Even whispers can be heard, so using talkies to make performance calls is a no-go. For a while I even had a "now serving number" sign backstage which I could advance so crew knew what scene shift we were doing next.

Let's get creative on a very small budget. If I need anything small-ish I can probably sweet-talk a board member for a donation. I need at least two of them to be wireless (me and SM) and I need them to be cheap. I don't mind fabrication and soldering.

Assets:
- more xlr than I know what to do with
- a 500' spool of cat5 cable
- a soldering iron
- a crap-ton of old lav condenser mics from some old Shure body packs (no longer legal frequency)
- soon-to-have a dedicated 8-node cat5 network in the theater for ArtNet and digital snake (praying for grant approval)
- an old telephone punch-down interface
- access to a used wifi router

The only thing I don't think I can do without buying something is the wireless part. I think I need to pony up cash for that, but $10k for a complete wireless system is not in the cards. I don't need to have TX and RX simultaneously, I can do PTT like a walkie.

What about something like an old cordless telephone system that isn't hooked up to a phone line? Just everyone turn on their phone and have earbuds with cupped mics for booth folks?


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## themuzicman (Mar 2, 2019)

DIY Mumble Server -- otherwise the search button is your friend as it comes up plenty. The long answer is Clearcom IS the cheap solution professionally - yes, you can buy Production Intercom products which use the same type of filtered 30VDC power supply but at the end of the day that system is pretty simple - the expense comes with how robust and fault-tolerant you want the product to be so you'll have trade-offs with whatever you do (the big trade-off with Clearcom from the initial jump is just that it's inherently a party-line system, it's certainly not a perfect product!)

I don't quite get why Walkies don't work here -- they generally don't make audible blips when a headset is connected to them (trade-off: Half-Duplex)

Everyone has a cellphone so a VOIP-like solution like Mumble is pretty cool and very cost effective (trade-off: Reliability).

DIY Wired Telephone Com - You could burn a ton of XLR running an analog phone party line everywhere. You'd have to make XLR to 6P2C breakouts, but I think it'll work? (Trade-off: Clunky, and full party-line at all times).

Anyhow, there are ways to do communication on the cheap, just have to weigh the pro's and con's and your commitment to making it happen. Mumble is probably the easiest back-end of all the options, but on the front-end you have to get people to download an app and sign in and bring a fully charged phone to the show every day. Wired phones won't have really any front-end work, but you have to spend a ton of time on the back-end to get it working!


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## curtis73 (Mar 2, 2019)

Mumble has been tried. It could be our network, but the lag was pretty intense. Hard to call a light cue when its 2 seconds late. We also have a lot of volunteers who are...um... blue haired, so their mobile phones still have a rotary dial 

Talkies have been tried, but the party line is nice for interrupting, like, "hey, hold rail or you'll squash a set piece that is stuck." You can't say that if someone else is keying the mic.


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## themuzicman (Mar 2, 2019)

curtis73 said:


> Mumble has been tried. It could be our network, but the lag was pretty intense. Hard to call a light cue when its 2 seconds late.



I know you mentioned Mumble won't work for your crew -- but 2 seconds is a ton of latency...Mumble boasts the lowest latency of all the game-centric chat apps, with a minimum latency of 10ms in the box. You can't play an MMO game with a ton of latency so I wouldn't give up if it's a thing that could potentially work. 

I'd really dive into how your server was set up before moving to WiFi issues, unless you were connecting it to a Network that was already in-use, then build a standalone network. A Pi 3 B+ has onboard WiFi and is only $35 and would get to the root of server v external wireless router pretty quickly.


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## josh88 (Mar 2, 2019)

This may not be an option in your space but maybe you could set up a sort of shout box scenario. XLR runs and speakers/headphone amps at various locations and then switched mics at each location. Run it through extra mixer space or a small secondary mixer and you've got two way comms, potentially with what you have in-house. It sounds like speakers wouldn't work given the noise issues you already noted, but with headphones you might be able to come up with something useable. It's not very graceful and it gets more complicated as you add more locations and doesn't really help with your wireless request but for no budget and in a pinch, I've used it as a work around before.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2019)

If you can risk 70 bucks, you get a Raspberry pi 3 and use my pre configured sd card image for a plug and play all in one Mumble server and wifi router/access spot
I have run this in a 500+ seat auditorium now as our primary comm for 6 productions now. Highly reliable low latency full duplex. You can use an iphone and earbud running mumble app
as a station, or an android phone running plumble. I also have pre configured images available for download for a raspberry pi zero wireless station (25 bucks hardware plus headset of your choice) 

I have several folks who have done this now. I did just find out that the rasp pi 3b+ needed an updated image, which I have cmpleted, and am uploading currently. The instruction sheet on how to do it yourself has been updated as well 
and is already on the controlbooth resources section . https://www.controlbooth.com/resources/picomm-version-2.126/

there are also instructions in resources for pre configured station images as well both rasp pi and pc bootable usb stick. 

I got real fancy and got some used (50 bucks average) DECT headsets from logitech that sit on a recharger base. The user just grabs the headset with boom mic and goes. Can wander about 300 feet from base so for 75-80 bucks a seat, you 
can have a wireless full roving professional setup. 

Your user stations can be on rasp pi, cell phone, pc, mac..... You can run wired or on a wireless backbone. The picomm base station image is set to just plug and play. Your user stations will need individual setup
according to your machinery and needs. But for 70 bucks hardware cost.. you can test with cell phones and ear buds. 

My pi has been powered up continuously at the Theater since a year ago last December.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2019)

and you solve any latency problem on light cues by training... cue 23 on "Thats what she said" call it a line ahead and let the operator be an operator

Also if you put the booth and one backstage station on a pc running mumble you can type text messages as well, and the pc will translate them into electronic robotalk voice, or you can read them on the screen

The apps will let you send text as well, but it's not as convenient


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## Ken Summerall Jr (Mar 4, 2019)

I would suggest looking at Unity Intercom, their cloud service may work for your situation. Or ProIntercom, wireless may be an issue but I know they used to sell an interface that worked with a walkie talkie. Not sure that would be ideal but compared to ClearCom they are rather cheap.


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## MNicolai (Mar 4, 2019)

Not sure if they'll do exactly what you want but baby monitors are 2-way and cheap.


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## Diana Mullis (Mar 4, 2019)

Ken Summerall Jr said:


> I would suggest looking at Unity Intercom, their cloud service may work for your situation. Or ProIntercom, wireless may be an issue but I know they used to sell an interface that worked with a walkie talkie. Not sure that would be ideal but compared to ClearCom they are rather cheap.


Pro Intercom has 2 ways to do wireless. 1) AD913 adapter ~$165 plus custom cable $60-100 range, based on model of walkie-talkie. First walkie-talkie becomes 'base'. 2) Second scenario is similar in that we use the AD913 and a custom cable #C3M-105 ~$45, except this scenario uses Listen Technologies ListenTalk transceivers. In both scenarios your wireless people will be PTT.


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## Ken Summerall Jr (Mar 4, 2019)

Diana Mullis said:


> Pro Intercom has 2 ways to do wireless. 1) AD913 adapter ~$165 plus custom cable $60-100 range, based on model of walkie-talkie. First walkie-talkie becomes 'base'. 2) Second scenario is similar in that we use the AD913 and a custom cable #C3M-105 ~$45, except this scenario uses Listen Technologies ListenTalk transceivers. In both scenarios your wireless people will be PTT.



Diana, Would this work with some of the cheap Chinese radios, like the Baofang that you can buy off of Amazon? I think these radios use the sort of standard 2 pin connectors for headsets, etc.


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## Diana Mullis (Mar 4, 2019)

Ken Summerall Jr said:


> Diana, Would this work with some of the cheap Chinese radios, like the Baofang that you can buy off of Amazon? I think these radios use the sort of standard 2 pin connectors for headsets, etc.


My understanding was that there have been some recent changes that have caused problems for Baofang and the frequencies they use. Most often we see Motorola or Kenwood.


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## themuzicman (Mar 4, 2019)

Ken Summerall Jr said:


> Diana, Would this work with some of the cheap Chinese radios, like the Baofang that you can buy off of Amazon? I think these radios use the sort of standard 2 pin connectors for headsets, etc.



Do NOT get a Baofeng - it is illegal to transmit from most of them without a license. The UV-5R is the most common variant and you can program them to only program on GMRS frequencies, which are licensed but the license is very easy to acquire. I imagine throwing a call sign every time you transmitted when trying to call a show would really hinder your ability to use them as intercom.

That being said, and not to take this too far off topic, even with Amateur Radio or GMRS licenses it's quite easy to buy an illegal radio - if you're buying new ones note that the only variant that are allowed to transmit on the licensed bands in the US are the UV-5R v2+ and newer UV-5X models. The older models in the UV-5R series were found to be in violation of Part 90 licensing. While you can technically program a new UV-5R to operate on the legal FRS frequencies, the radios themselves aren't Part 95 certified so you'd technically be breaking the law without a license.

The BAOFENG MURS-V1 can be used license free. Typically you want to be looking for a Part 95 certified radio for this sort of task -- but that could mean a lot of things and CB radios are a little bulk to be used as intercom.


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## curtis73 (Mar 4, 2019)

Amazing support for my project! Thank you all.

So here is what I have succeeded in accomplishing so far. I put Mumble and Murmur on my PC desktop in my office. Plumble on my android. I was able to successfully set up my desktop as a server and client, and my android as a client. I talked to my desktop from my phone and I was very happy with the super-low latency. I went and grabbed the PC laptop from the tech booth that we use for SFX, pre-show music, and powerpoints, and did the same steps, but it appears that Murmur uses Bonjour which I discovered my laptop doesn't have. I'll have to figure that out. Downloading Bonjour isn't as easy as I had hoped. Long story short, Murmur never generated a server, so no server showed up in Mumble to sign into.

My IT guy dropped off a Netgear N300. Not the greatest wifi box, but the plan at this point is to do a proof-of-concept with my phone, my two previous phones (that I never got around to donating to charity), the laptop set up as a server with a cat6 to the N300 and see how it does. My main concern with doing Mumble was that my older volunteers might not have the equipment to do it, so if I can scour up the old smart phones from everyone on the board (and maybe do an ad in the program for Tmobile or Verizon in exchange for some trade-ins), I could have a bank of phones for next to nothing. So far I've spent zero, so potentially the little money I have could be put toward headsets.

Then the only other hurdle is the green room/dressing rooms. I suppose I could do the RPi there in the future, but in all honesty... I could set up a phone in there paired to a Bluetooth speaker and set it for PTT.

jtweigandt… In my limited Bluetooth experience, there is significant latency. Like my home theater has a Bluetooth speaker on the patio and it is notably behind the analog audio from the main speakers. For that reason would it be wise to avoid Bluetooth earbuds/headsets paired to the phones? Also, I noticed that Mumble lets you set a hardware button on your phone for PTT. Will Mumble recognize something like a button on the accessory earbud? My thought is this: Let's say for instance we have something like the picture below. Would Mumble recognize one of those buttons as a PTT?


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## jtweigandt (Mar 4, 2019)

I have found the stability and low power consumption of the raspberry pi mumble server to be the best route. I ran a couple years of shows using mumble on a win7 pc and 2 windows thin clients. 
it was workable, but I don't find the stability of mumble on windows anywhere on par with mumble server on a linux machine specifically the rasp pi. Also the pi has no other software, bloatware, or the temptation to
try to use it for other things at the same time. I just made a new image that runs on the new pi 3b+, and hopefully will have the link posted in a day or so.

The beauty of the picomm server is for 70 bucks it sits there always on, year round, consuming almost no power and taking up the space of a deck of cards. It is the way to go mumble wise.
You can use it's own ssid, plug it in to your own router and have 2 segments and 2 ssid of wireless, or even in our case I use a repeater on stage to get better reach backstage, but ours is a big facility. I run this headless, and vnc from my ipad if I need to check status etc. It is nice to have at least one station somewhere in the facility that has a monitor full time though, so you can see what is and isn't connected.

If you don't want to risk 70 bucks, you can get the 25 buck pi zero kit, and it will run the picomm image, but the pi zero has less capable processor and slightly weaker wifi If you start using multiple stations you will want
the pi3 variant for your base. It's a good proof of concept though.

As to clients.. starting with phones. using wired earbuds or wired headset with boom mic is the best. I have found only a couple of bluetooth devices that coexist well with the phone apps.
When using the phone app, you leave your headset and mic live, and set the APP to PTT. you then touch the big lips icon on the phone screen to talk, and are always listening. 

If you use my thumbdrive image and boot a windows thin client or windows computer to the linux/raspian environment on it, it will coexist quite nicely with bluetooth, usb or conventional headsets. 
The nicest most comfortable headset on the planet as far as I am concerned, is the Logitech H800 with dedicated dongle.. It can be had on the street probably 50 bucks.. The dongle appears to the pc or rasp pi
as a usb headset, not a bluetooth device... that makes it versatile for reasons which I will explain. It will give you the ability to roam about 30 feet from the base wirelessly. Next step up is da bomb Thats the logitech H820e
headset.. It is a DECT set, using the same tech as wireless phones.. that gets you 300 feet or better roaming from base. Can be had used or refurb in the 50 to 70 buck range. It also shows itself as a usb headset to the computer. Has a nice grab and go charging base. I currently have a fleet of 7 of these. 

If you use a raspberry pi zerow, (25 bucks) you can run my other image as a client to the picomm or other mumble server wirelessly. You can also use the image on a pi3b I need to update that one for the 3b+ still
A raspberry pi variant will need a USB headset, or a USB to 3.5 mm converter to use with a headset. You can use either of the logitech headsets mentioned here as well since they present as a usb headset, not a bluetooth device. Raspberry pi can do bluetooth out to a speaker quite well.. what it cant do with out very special config and adapter is talk directly to a bluetooth headset/microphone combo.

In a small facility like yours, one option would be to config the 25 buck pi zero with a usb headset of some sort, and use a phone charger battery pack for power. Stuff it in a small camera case, and voila you have a pi beltpack. but you have to be careful to choose a usb headset with a mute switch.. not necessarily easy to find. For about the same outlay though you could use either of the logitech options and leave the pi in a stationary position.. The user only need don the headset, and has 30 or 300 feet of freedom. You can either hook the pi zero to a monitor and keyboard and usb hub for initial config, or can vnc in from a tablet. Both flavors of Logitech have nice on headset mic mute options. Full time listen, talk when you mean to. Theater has too much ambient noise to have live mic or trigger on voice.

If you go the logitech 820e route, after initial configuration, it literally is just power on the pis, and grab the headsets off the cradle and go. The pi's are such low power, we just leave them on all the time, along with the
charging bases of the headsets to keep the headsets topped off and ready all the time. Everything is running headless, except for one station that I keep a monitor on.

Thats about it in a very big nutshell.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 5, 2019)

Upload is complete of the new image that will work on pizero, pi3b and pi3b+( picomm2img.zip) https://www.controlbooth.com/resources/picomm-version-2.126/
the link also has images for client stations for pi and a bootable linux thumbdrive to run on a pc or thin client. Also documentation is in the download folder.


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## curtis73 (Mar 5, 2019)

Wow. I can't thank you enough for your help. A couple of those things are over my head but I'll figure it out. I just joined here a few days ago and I'm so glad I did.

So the Logitech 820s are standalone 300' range? I won't need a wifi?

So here's what I'm thinking. If I get about 4 of the 820s and a pi 3b+, that should handle the critical tech stuff; e.g. booth and backstage. Then for me and any other pre/post show comm, possibly a wired or Bluetooth headset on my phone/Plumble since a second of latency won't be critical. My big thing is, I want to schmooze with patrons and be an ambassador, but need to have a way for crew to contact me. Then also during the show I can monitor for problems. I guess I'm an eavesdropping ambassador.

I'm off to do some more research and shopping so I can put together a proposal, then schmooze a couple board members and see if I can get a few hundred clams to make this happen.

One question that pops to mind: Does anyone make a good headset with a high-attenuation shield for the mic? My original plan was to cannibalize some old headset muffs and bury the mic in one of those on the boom so whispers aren't heard by the audience.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 5, 2019)

The 820s each have to be attached to some sort of mumble client.. could be a pc could be a pizero. This example has 3 old thin clients, and a pi zero. So 4 820s + 4 pizero By the time you get an sd card for the pizero, 100 bucks per station for pizero/sd/820 combo. If you find the used/refurb 820s.. otherwise it's a 200 buck retail item. They pop up on ebay all the time though.

But their 300 foot link is a DECT connection, independant of your wifi.
The picomm raspberry pi image for your base has the built in wifi signal to talk to all your phones, clients etc. You can also plug directly to your ethernet backbone and talk to other pc's running mumble that way as well.

It will send mumble traffic to both interfaces wired and wireless with no additional config.

The 820s can be had in one ear and 2 ear variants. So with the 1 ear, it works pretty well to roam around and schmooze.. Looking real official and important at the same time.


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## HazyOblivion (Mar 5, 2019)

I didn't have time to look at all the replies, but I have had great success with www.eartec.com. Their UltraLite coms- Full duplex, rechargeable batteries, no base station (up to 5 units), comfortable, lightweight, and reasonably priced. I paid under $1000 for 5 headsets. I've been using them for High School theatre for several years now.


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## Starr T. (Mar 5, 2019)

Ditto on the EarTec Ultra Lite system (4)...no wires, no base, no interference...(which we had with other systems).


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## curtis73 (Mar 5, 2019)

Would the eartec allow me to interface with an old-school wired clearcom? I'm thinking about when we tour a show twice a year. I'm thinking with Mumble/Pi I can XLR-1/8" and plug it into the Pi to add my wireless setup to their wired system.


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## jtweigandt (Mar 5, 2019)

curtis73 said:


> Would the eartec allow me to interface with an old-school wired clearcom? I'm thinking about when we tour a show twice a year. I'm thinking with Mumble/Pi I can XLR-1/8" and plug it into the Pi to add my wireless setup to their wired system.


Somebody on here did an experiment with the mumble backbone to clearcom, and the problem was the mumble would pick back up the sound it sent on the clearcom loop as an input signal, since the clear com loop is fed to the mumble input. echo city. Even I in my best evangelistic mode says if you can get a kilobuck to buy the Eartech, that is probably the best and simplest. If you want to start with little to nothing with the ability to add and refine as you go a bit at a time.. then mumble is great..


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## HazyOblivion (Mar 5, 2019)

curtis73 said:


> Would the eartec allow me to interface with an old-school wired clearcom? I'm thinking about when we tour a show twice a year. I'm thinking with Mumble/Pi I can XLR-1/8" and plug it into the Pi to add my wireless setup to their wired system.



As far as I know, EarTec is it's own closed system. I know they have wired and other wireless systems. My experience is with the UltraLite, which can handle up to 5 headsets without a base station (the base is in one of the headsets). Depending on how many headsets you need, the UltraLite might work well on tour because it's so portable. 
(i do not work of EarTec, just a fan)


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## jtweigandt (Mar 9, 2019)

Not to undercut my profits from the free picomm project.. but if you want dirt cheap simple and wired system... take a look at this


I always knew this could be done, but didn't know the supply voltage acceptable range... also wonder how many stations you could cut in in parallel..
a good beefy clean AC adaptor would probably get you quite a few. In the old days.. that was one of the reasons Ma Bell got upset
if you had unauthorized extensions.. it could in theory drop the line voltage enough that not everyone could be rung.. Equipment used to
have "Ringer Equavalence Number" to rate how many could be put on a branch.. They could also test remotely and know you had your own extension hooked up
by the line voltage drop. You could even get creative and use some cordless handsets and bases. As an example.. 11 bucks on ebay... Plantronics cordless with headset.. Just jimmy in the base like they did on the wired phone example, and I bet you're golden https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Mini-Co...601327&hash=item3b2c5c947f:g:pPsAAOSw2gNbx7pr


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