# OSHA Question



## porkchop (Feb 27, 2010)

> 1926.502(d)(20)
> 
> The employer shall provide for prompt rescue of employees in the event of a fall or shall assure that employees are able to rescue themselves.



That's right out of the OSHA regulations on fall arrest systems. I've been a little bothered about how the company I work for handles the fall arrest system. Now I have a few questions about this:

Does 'call the fire department' count as prompt rescue?

Since it's an American company does the company have to abide by OSHA regulations when we're working over seas?
There isn't necessarily going to be a fire department to help get us down in other countries.

Does OSHA say it's a problem that the company has never officially told me a fall recovery plan?
The only reason I know that call the fire department is the official plan is because one of the riggers on the show happened to say it in conversation.


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## Footer (Feb 27, 2010)

This is one of those issues that many, many places overlook. Unfortunately, this can also get you killed. Research shows that hanging in a harness more then half an hour can cause death. 

Calling the fire dept. is not an answer, nor is it the accepted answer. Yes, you should call as soon as someone falls to have an ambulance there when the person gets down, but its the houses responsibility to get the person down. 

There are a few different ways to look at this. If you are working on truss, bringing the truss in is a rescue plan. If you are working from high steel, its gets a little more difficult.

If the person is conscious a line can be dropped to the person that they clip into and the person can be winched up. Easy, right? However, there is a REALLY good chance that the person is not going to be with it or injured in some way. This requires that a person be able to be lowered to the injured person, hook the person up, and either lower them to the ground or pull them back up. Either way, this requires 2 separate devices, one for the fallen and one for the rescuer. 

A system like this... Basic High Angle Rescue Kits would do what you need to do. 

At least two people should be sufficiently trained in the use of the rescue gear. You don't want to be the person who knows how to rescue someone and be the one dangling.... 

The training facility for this type of thing is in Reno. Tower Rescue

Before you clip in, think what will happen if I fall and how will my feet get back on the ground?

OSHA will not cover you outside of the U.S. as far as I know. I know that on cruise ships your not covered but they purposely register their ships outside of the U.S. to get around that and other laws.


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## jwl868 (Feb 27, 2010)

Reagrding overseas work: 

From The OSH Act:

SEC. 4. Applicability of This Act 
(a) This Act shall apply with respect to employment performed in a workplace in a State, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands, Wake Island, Outer Continental Shelf Lands defined in the Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act, Johnston Island, and the Canal Zone. 


Joe


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## Dionysus (Feb 27, 2010)

The Canadian OSHA reads the same way.

I agree that 'call the fire dept.' is not sufficient... EXCEPT...

The College I went to had the response as "call the fire dept.", however the fire department in the city had people trained in high angle rescue... AND they brought the fire department in to the College to go over the rescue plan with them in advance.

I don't remember the details, but there was a specific plan of action in place. It was like 5 years ago.

So I can concede that IF the local fire dept. has been briefed and consulted in the process of planning the rescue, it would be fine (plus, it is a school setting).

I still think having an 'high angle rescue team' is a very good thing. A group of people (probably riggers, perhaps TD, etc) trained in how to properly execute a high angle rescue would be advised.


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## ruinexplorer (Feb 28, 2010)

Unfortunately, the OSHA inspector will have final say. But, if you are outside the jurisdiction of OSHA, then it doesn't matter if they abide by those regulations. Be safe. As said, cruise ships are often registered in other countries for explicitly being able to circumvent American regulations.


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## porkchop (Feb 28, 2010)

We are still in the US currently and the company is likely to always have someone in the US so I think this may be worth pursuing. 

We don't have a rescue kit on the show and some parts of the truss are safetied to the ceiling so bringing in the truss isn't really a practical rescue plan. None the less I'm fairly certain that with the experienced riggers and climbers (both at work and recreational) we have on the show, if any of us fell we would be recovered safely before EMS got there. So that is not my question.

I'm asking is there a problem with the fact that the plan is to rely on the fire department to get the fallen climber down, and is it a problem that this was never officially told to me? Not a problem with logic or good practices, but a problem with OSHA or someone else that the company actually has to listen to.

Basically this builds on rules around MSDS. It was made very clear to us that we had to know where the MSDS book is and how to use it to help someone that has been in contact with something on the show. It was also said that this knowledge was required by insurance and OSHA and if we where asked by people about this to not mess around because there could be big consequences. Considering the relatively mild stuff we have on our unit I'd say a fall is a much greater danger, but they really haven't done much to inform us of how to deal with a fall.


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## GreyWyvern (Mar 1, 2010)

Lack of a clear plan for rescue after a fall was one of the main issues I had with the company that added to my list of good reasons to quit. However, it was added motivation to be extra careful to not fall! Despite that though, I must say, I really miss climbing sometimes. There was a good reason I was called "Truss Monkey".


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## mixmaster (Mar 1, 2010)

porkchop said:


> We are still in the US currently and the company is likely to always have someone in the US so I think this may be worth pursuing.
> 
> We don't have a rescue kit on the show and some parts of the truss are safetied to the ceiling so bringing in the truss isn't really a practical rescue plan. None the less I'm fairly certain that with the experienced riggers and climbers (both at work and recreational) we have on the show, if any of us fell we would be recovered safely before EMS got there. So that is not my question.
> 
> ...



Calling the local emergency service in the event of something like that is not going to be a bad thing. Believe me, we get called to stranger things, and rescue is part of our job. If someone is going to be putting the local fire service down as their rescue personnel, it might be nice to let said department know about the event ahead of time so that the Chief can make plans appropriately. Most departments have had at least some exposure to high angle rescue and many larger departments have specific teams. Even the departments that don't have high angle training may have resources, like longer ladders, that could be brought into service to affect a rescue, or aid agreements with larger departments or rescue companies.
That being said, it's common sense that everyone knows about the dangers of their job and there be a plan in place to rescue someone in need of help. I would be surprised if OSHA didn't mandate some sort of paper trail or documentation similar to the Confined space or Haz-mat paperwork.


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## SHARYNF (Mar 1, 2010)

What are you really trying to get at with the question?

Is it that the company is not doing things properly, or ???

It could very well be that the experienced climbers and riggers have a plan and that they know what to do, but rather then inform everyone the company has focused on a few key people.

Calling the fire department/ems makes sense since they are likely to have the equipment to deal with the problem, and having experienced riggers/climbers there can work with them for the rescue. 

Hasmat training tends to be more widespread because people coming in contact with it and using the material tends to be "uncontrolled"

It is possible that if the company restricts the people who actually do the rigging and climbing to the training and plan that this is ok. OSHA tends to be broad focused.

Usually the company needs to have SOME team that is trained and has a plan not necessary that everyone know the plan especially if the danger activity is limited to a sub set of the folks


Sharyn


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## porkchop (Mar 2, 2010)

I'm the one climbing a good portion of the time, so following your need to know idea I feel like I would be one of the people with the need to know.


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## Footer (Mar 2, 2010)

porkchop said:


> I'm the one climbing a good portion of the time, so following your need to know idea I feel like I would be one of the people with the need to know.



Then start asking. It does not have to be a formal thing, but when your sitting on the bus on the way to the next city ask "If I am on the DS truss and take a dive, how do you guys plan to get me down?". If they answer "trampoline!", you have an issue. If they say "With all the climbing gear I have I will belay myself down to you, hook you up to a block and tackle, and we will lower you to the deck", then your fine. Because every fall is different there might not be a standard procedure on how to get you down. However, every time you clip in you put yourself at risk, therefore every time you clip in ask yourself how they plan to get you down if you are hanging 12' below where your feet currently are.


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## photoatdv (Mar 2, 2010)

Footer said:


> If they answer "trampoline!", you have an issue.



Awe, no trampolines! But they're so much fun!

Just kidding... for rescue anyways.


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