# Hello from Iowa, and needing help with projections/media servers.



## scoops1 (Dec 8, 2012)

Hi guys, here from Iowa, In the summer we have a community theatre group that rents out the local high school theatre and usually puts on two large musicals a summer, this coming summer will be my 6th year with them and, its just been announced that we have got the rights to Les Miserables. 

Here's the kicker i may be "assistant TD" as in one of my good friends will be TDing and he and i work close together and kind of help each other out, we did the same thing last year and it worked well. Well we need to do projections, we did projection for a show last year and it was well...horrible, we ran it off of his laptop and then split it off to two different projectors(two different screens) and just shut off the projector that was not in use with the included remote, well it was horrible, sound was ether to loud or to soft, we ended up having a weird red line running horizontal on one of the projectors a couple of the nights, video skipped or didnt pop up, it was just bad. 

So were looking at a media server deal and running projections off of it, Im not for sure how many projectors we will be using and what type or anything. We have a ETC ION console. And this is where i need help at, Neither he or i know anything about media servers what they really can or cant do, what we need to work with them or anything, we've never worked with one in our lives, we need all the help and information we can possibly get.

If you could just give me any and all help and information or just point me in the right direction it would be awesome.

Thanks guys so much and i hope to hear from you soon.


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## derekleffew (Dec 8, 2012)

Setting aside (for a moment) the technical issues, who will be the Scenic Designer? Lighting Designer? Will there be a separate Projections Designer? What do you want the projections to achieve? And as always the kicker--What's the budget, for both personnel and equipment (rental or purchase)?

A media server may not be the best route. They are always expensive. Good ones require a dedicated, purpose-built, proprietary machine, with good video card(s), fast hard drive(s), lots of RAM, stripped of all extraneous software, etc. NOT one's typical, general-use laptop. 
The older, once industry-standard and still used often, system RENTS for $1,250 per week. The latest, must-have models are around $2,500 per week. That's just for the box, and does not include projectors or programming, and only stock media, the quality of which varies, but likely none appropriate for _Les Miz_.

If you don't require control from the lighting desk, there are programs to display still or moving pictures. Look at the alternatives listed in this thread http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...w-control/25840-qlab-alternative-windows.html , for example.

Also, have a look around this site: ProjectionFreak - Tutorials .
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## scoops1 (Dec 8, 2012)

I do not know for sure who will be the scenic designer but i believe it will probably be our good friend and also our old high school TD, hes very willing and can work with/around us and what we plan to do, this still awhile out, lighting designer will also more then likely be my friend the one TDing, he usually ends up doing both, Projection will fall in between him and i, he will be doing must of the work on the projections. Budget isn't any sort of a mega budget but can work within in reason. We would more then likely be renting said equipment. 

I honestly do not know what we are wanting to achieve with the projections, he called me up yesterday and today me to learn all i can about media servers, the best way to do projections and that sort of thing and then that we would meet up soon and discuss, so yeah... 

We really dont need control from the console, it would be nice and i think he would like to do it that way but its not all that necessary, we just want the best way to do this and look as professional as possible.


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## MPowers (Dec 8, 2012)

I can't help with the projections, that's a foreign language to me. However our rental division can help you with equipment. Keep us in mind if you need supplies, paint, gel, rigging. We're in Des Moines.


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## ruinexplorer (Dec 8, 2012)

Projection can be an extremely big budget item, especially when you want it done right. Depending on what you are willing to compromise on, it can be done with a limited budget. 

Things you need to consider in getting started: 

Lumens - the amount of ANSI lumens that the projector can put out (not just a brand new projector with a brand new lamp)
Projection surface - you will need to know the size, the gain, viewing angle, front/rear, etc.
Ambient light - extremely important as this will directly effect your contrast ratio
Distance - appropriate lensing, some light loss will occur over very long throws

Type of signal - analog or digital, resolution, distribution
Source - server, other computer, optical drive
Switching/scaling - if you are utilizing multiple sources or need additional processing of the image

Similar to lighting design, projection design has quite a span between doing it and doing it great. Back in college, we made our own lighting rig out of coffee cans with PAR lamps inside of them connected to a bank of household dimmers for garage bands. This of course is quite different in comparrison to what is used professionally. While most people do not make their own projectors (though you can find instructions on how to do so), many people have the same idea about projection in that all you need is any old projector and a source and you can do great things. The good thing is that you are giving yourself plenty of opportunity to learn how to do this. The down side is that your vision will likely exceed your budget.


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## MPowers (Dec 8, 2012)

MPowers said:


> ....I can't help with the projections, that's a foreign language to me. ........



Actually, if you mean Linnebach projector (spelling?), or stacks of carousel slide projectors and a Genesis control program with Dove controllers, .... well, then maybe I can help you!


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## derekleffew (Dec 9, 2012)

MPowers said:


> ... or stacks of carousel slide projectors and a Genesis control program with Dove controllers, ....


Wow, you used Genesis (running on a first-generation IBM PC compatible)? You're newer than me--I stopped at AVL Eagle II, a CP/M machine. Long live Procall and Positrack!

Does CLE have any media servers in their rental stock? scoops1 may need to source these from Chicago. I'd start with Upstaging and ILC.

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scoops1 said:


> ... he called me up yesterday and told me to learn all i can about media servers, ...


To learn all you can, it's best to take a manufacturer-sponsored class. Usually a one-day affair, and around $500 tuition includes a box lunch. Unfortunately, I don't know of any that are taught in Iowa. Some of many possibilities:
Green Hippo - HippoSchool
Axon Training Course In Toronto? - High End Systems Discussion Forums
PRG : Mbox Media Server Training Video Chapter 1: Introduction
LightingTrainer.COM Media Servers and Digital Lighting Page
ArKaos : Support Centre - FAQ - Knowledgebase - Trouble Ticket System
Media Servers and Digital Stage Lighting - On Stage Lighting


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## museav (Dec 9, 2012)

scoops1 said:


> I honestly do not know what we are wanting to achieve with the projections, he called me up yesterday and today me to learn all i can about media servers, the best way to do projections and that sort of thing and then that we would meet up soon and discuss, so yeah...
> 
> We really dont need control from the console, it would be nice and i think he would like to do it that way but its not all that necessary, we just want the best way to do this and look as professional as possible.


If you don't know what you are trying to achieve then how can you tell what might be needed or appropriate? The equipment is usually a means to an end rather than the end result so it is usually a good idea to have some idea of the desired end result before starting to address equipment. If your TD friend wants you to learn all about theatrical projection and what is possible tell him you'll get back to him in a few years, otherwise you might want to start with developing some general concepts of what you want to do and defining any space, budget (what is considered "within reason" can vary greatly), time, etc. goals or limitations.


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## scoops1 (Dec 9, 2012)

Thanks guys so much for the help so far, Its sounding like the dedicated media server like the green hippo type device route might be a bit more then what were thinking. I know a lot of factors weigh into rental prices, but does anyone have a rough idea of what a 4 week media server rental would be? 

Were just looking to do this in a quality way, So in that case, what would be a good/better way to do this so its well timed/sounds good etc... from say just a computer, or does any one have any other way of doing this well?


derekleffew said:


> Does CLE have any media servers in their rental stock? scoops1 may need to source these from Chicago.


I was actually wondering what CLE had in there rental inventory or what they can provide? Would love to keep things local. (If thats not allowed here or over steeping, you can PM me)


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## metti (Dec 9, 2012)

Totally depends on your market but something like a Hippo HD would go for $1000-1500 per week. You might be better served by something like QLab. I can't speak for your market but in Boston I would send a Mac Mini with QLab out the door for $150-200 per week.


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## willbb123 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm also in eastern Iowa. 
I work for 16th Avenue Music, although we just have lighting and audio. We work with this local video company, Rausch Productions, alot. I don't really know what gear they have, but we have defiantly done multiple screens before. We are both in Cedar Rapids.


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## MPowers (Dec 9, 2012)

scoops1 said:


> .........I was actually wondering what CLE had in there rental inventory or what they can provide?........



To find out what we have and prices, etc. Call 515-277-4190 and ask for Kris Churchill. He'll fill you in on what we can and can't do.


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## JChenault (Dec 10, 2012)

To the OP. I feel like you may be getting a little ahead of yourself here in asking about media servers. Apologies if this is too basic. I am not by any means an expert in the field, but this is my understading.

If what you want to do is to project fairly static images, or to do simple cross fades between images - you need to research projectors, screens, projection angles, etc. One popular low end software for this is something like power point.

If you want to use multiple projectors to project a single, larger image you need some kind of program like Watchout to blend the edges of your image together. I believe that Watchoutmalso gives you better control over transitioning between various images or video clips.

If you want to be able to manipulate video, save it, and replay that video during the performance you need some kind of video manipulation software. You produce your video or images then use something like,Watchout to control the projection

If you want to manipulate video in real time, and project it, then you want a media server.

Now will a media server do the same things as a power point program. Sure. But if you don't need real time manipulation of video or other images, it is probably not the most cost effective tool.

Ie I would echo museav's thoughts that you need to get at least a general idea of what you are trying to achieve instead of researching media servers. It is likely that understanding projectors, screens, and basic controls might be a better first step.


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## FatherMurphy (Dec 10, 2012)

I'm also in eastern Iowa, but we don't have a lot of newer video gear. Al Schmidt at Metro Video in Hiawatha might be another local resource for equipment and advice, although his equipment might be more advanced than you need.

There are inexpensive dowser made for projectors, basically a blade on a servo motor, that you strap to the top of the projector, and at the flip of a switch, the blade spins down and blocks the light coming from the lens. These can be useful no matter what head end you have, since even a black image still shines some light.

The big question is if you need/want the same image on multiple screens, or different images on different screens. Same image is easy, different images start complicating things. Mirroring the same image on two screens can be done with just a projector setting, but rules out using any words onscreen.

I do have a Newtek Tricaster available that might be of use, if you're doing same images, and some small to medium size projectors. The Tricaster makes it easy to mix between preselected vid clips, stills, and live cameras, but it is somewhat limited (designed for a certain market segment) in terms of number of sources. I wouldn't want to try to busk a live music show on the fly with it, but a rehearsed theater show would be easy.


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