Control/Dimming Element on a Net1 House System Work Around???? Help!

[coolsvens]

I feel like I am in a very weird circumstance. I am in a black box that had the foresight to use ethernet and nodes everywhere, however they used no 5-pin dmx outputs anywhere. The kicker is the network is ETCNet (Net 1) and they usually run an Express or Insight 3 in the space. I however brought in an element and am now not able to control the dimmers because it runs on Net3. Sadly there is no way for me to go directly into the dimmers either from the board with hardline dmx. I was wondering if anyone knew a work around for this problem? I have two thoughts and wanted to know if anyone has tried them or gotten them to work so I can rest easier this weekend.

1. The Insight III has a DMX In and the option to put all of the channels into slave mode from a Master console (all channels at Focus Point 00). (Oddly enough I don't know of any master/slave option like this in the Express). We have done this trick before but only with a Hog II I think. So my hope is to have the Insight III plugged into the network (net 1) and then a dmx cable run from the Element to the Insight DMX In and hope it translate dmx values into net 1 information as in theory the element is only sending out dmx values and not net3 values. At least that's how I think it would logically work. This is the one I think might work, but was not able to test it out today because of time constraints. I am suppose to start tech on Monday.

2. I have access to some 4 output Net 3 nodes, which I know I could setup as input/output and might need a gender bender, but if I configure it and then plug the node into the old net1 network jacks, will it work? Or do I need to go to the dimmer room and detach all net1 nodes and only have it go into the net3 node? IE...a very simple 1 node upgrade which would then only go.

thank you

 

[SteveB]

Are you certain that the Insight isn't outputting DMX into a port/box ?.

Reason for the question is, Net 1 was mostly used to send video data, as well as take keyboard and RFU commands from a RVI node back to the desk. I can't recall ever seeing a setup where the console DMX was sent over the Net 1 system. As well, with this old a system and if you have Sensor dimmers, the CEM's probably would not be CEM+'s (EDIT: And thus, not Cat 5 cabling), and would be seeing DMX, not Net 2, so there should be DMX present somewhere.

OK, I did a quick Google and it shows the Net1 Remote Interface, which had 3 DMX ports. So I can see where the console might be talking to one of these devices and thus have no DMX off the desk, thus no local DMX In port near the Insight. They would then need the RI at the dimmers to get DMX into the racks, so maybe look there.

If you could get a Net 3 node, you could use the Cat5 (If it's Cat 5 and not ThinNet BNC !) currently used by the Insight, and then put the Net3 node at the dimmers.

 

[starksk]

If you could get a Net 3 node, you could use the Cat5 (If it's Cat 5 and not ThinNet BNC !) currently used by the Insight, and then put the Net3 node at the dimmers.

SteveB is exactly right here.

ETC Net1 Remote Interface Units (RIU) can output DMX but they mirror the console's output exactly. Your best option would be, if the system uses Cat3 or higher Ethernet wiring using an RJ45 connection and a switch or hub, to place the Net3 Gateway in place of the RIU.

Of course, if that isn't an option or the Net1 system is ThinNet, your solution of using the DMX In on the Insight 3 and setting those channels to focus point 0 will also work. The RIU outputs exactly what the console outputs, thus that data is retransmitted across the Net1 network.

 

[derekleffew]

...(Oddly enough I don't know of any master/slave option like this in the Express). ...

Not odd at all. The Expression/Insight has a number of features not available on Express. DMX IN is but one of them.

 

[coolsvens]

Thank you Kirk for the more definite answer. It's a relief to know the Insight DMX In option should work so I don't have to be panic-stricken until Monday. Sometimes I love Control Booth so much. I will update after Monday and let everyone know how it goes for sure.

 

[coolsvens]

Success! I tested out the Insight DMX In option and it worked perfectly. Having the Insight in slave mode via all channels at Focus Point 00 worked great. And while I have used that feature in the past on a Hog, I also realized for the first time that the board stays in slave mode if you record all values at Focus Point 00 into a cue. We use to run into an issue where we were terrified of hitting release by accident and messing up a show. No longer. And as a heads up for anyone else who every might experience this issue. Your patch for the dimmers should be 1 to 1 in the Element or other board you want to use, and then the actual dimmer to channel patch need to be in the Insight. Of course in my case, my 2nd universe was a home run line to some LED Pars, so I still had to patch those normally in the Element. The booth is a bit crowded with 2 light boards and monitors, but it all works!

 

[tk2k]

Success! I tested out the Insight DMX In option and it worked perfectly. Having the Insight in slave mode via all channels at Focus Point 00 worked great. And while I have used that feature in the past on a Hog, I also realized for the first time that the board stays in slave mode if you record all values at Focus Point 00 into a cue. We use to run into an issue where we were terrified of hitting release by accident and messing up a show. No longer. And as a heads up for anyone else who every might experience this issue. Your patch for the dimmers should be 1 to 1 in the Element or other board you want to use, and then the actual dimmer to channel patch need to be in the Insight. Of course in my case, my 2nd universe was a home run line to some LED Pars, so I still had to patch those normally in the Element. The booth is a bit crowded with 2 light boards and monitors, but it all works!

Maybe this doesn't need to be said, but why would it matter which board you patch on? That seem silly to me...

 

[BobHealey]

Based on his description, and a brief verification in the manual, the Insight takes the inbound DMX and sets that as the level of the channel, not the dimmer, on the Insight. So, by setting Dimmer 3 on the Element to full, channel 3 on the Insight is set to full, which then drives whatever dimmer is patched to channel 3 on the Insight.

 

[tk2k]

Gottcha. That's really annoying. How do you program on that?

 

[coolsvens]

I'm not sure I fully understand your question tk2k? Once the patch was all set up and the Insight was slaved, I just programed on the Element like you would do normally. The insight merely became an adapter (a large one at that) from dmx to net 1 for me.

 

[danTt]

It still wouildn't matter which board you chose to patch on, as long as you only picked one of them. If you patched on the road console, it would output dmx which would be 1:1'd on the house console, or if you 1:1'd on the road console, it would be translated on the house console. If you wanted to really obfuscate what you were doing, you could even patch on both consoles, and pretend you had a hard patch bay.

 

[coolsvens]

DanTt and Tk2k are both right. It does not matter which board is set 1:1.