Automated Fixtures Looking for a Good Fixture for a Better Price

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Synchronize

Active Member
I'm a senior in high school and I've decided that I definatly want to go into the lighting industry. Specifically rental. So I figure what better time to start than now? I don't exatly have a huge budget but I still want quality equipment. I definatly want to go used just for the money issue. I want to spend about $1500 per unit and about $2000 for a solid controller. I'm looking at some Martin MAC 250 Entours but I'm not certian that those are the best option for an "all-around" use. They are certainly cheaper than the MAC700 Profiles and Washes. As far as a console, I WISH I could find a Whole Hog or a Congo Jr for the $2000 that I want to spend, but that only happens in fantasy land. So I come to you who have used this stuff since its appearance in the 90s and hope to suck some wisdom out of you. What do you recommend I do?
 
Hold off on buying anything... Get a job working for a established lighting company in their warehouse or as any position out on set, and Go to School! You might be able to afford all of this equipment, but when a client comes to rent from you they are going to want to know what industry experience you have. Find a moving light board, and practice on it, get good at programming and troubleshooting be a go too guy for people who will need help. The thing I realized really quick right out of high school is no one in the professional world is going to take me seriously, I may know just as much as them technically, but dealing with real world problems and client relations especially is something you can't learn in high school. You are going to have to put your time in... it really sucks, but that is life. I have no idea what technical experience you have, but it sounds like you have a lot of passion for this industry (either Theatre or Corporate AV), but unfortunately you can only go so far on passion alone...

I was in the same boat as you a few years back, my HS had no tech theatre program, so they made one specifically for me, when i graduated i started calling corporate AV companies, and got a job doing the night shift, and ive moved up over the past few years to a senior tech.

So my advice to you is to hold off for a while, go to school, get a job and build a name for yourself, personal networking is your best friend, go to industry events, meet people, get business cards made, you never know where a door is going to open and someone with a job offer steps through...

Thats my 2 cents...
 
Just a couple things. I absolutly plan on going to school. Its a must for me. I plan on majoring in technical theatre and minoring in business marketing. This is just a starter. Its a way to break into the industry while I'm in school so that I dont have to struggle when I'm out of school and desperetly need a paycheck.

I've met with a couple people in the industry in Chicago, so its not like this is just a whim.

As far as industry experiance, my family owns and operates several equipment, car, and event rental stores. I've grown up with rental all around me. Now I want to combine the past 17 years of rental experiance with my passion for tech theatre. I dont think I can learn a whole lot about the industry by rolling cables in a shop.

Heres the thing. I'm buying four moving heads. The schools in my area dont have fancy theatre departments with huge 1400 seat auditoriums and fly systems and a huge budget. Most of them have none of those things, especially the budget. Thats who I really plan on catering to. If I can undercut the big shops in Chicago by $30 per week per unit and say rent all four units to the school, the school is saving $120 dollars. Now to some of you guys that went to/teach at big schools in or around cities that have 1400 seat auditoriums and fly systems and a budget, that doesnt sound like a whole lot of money, but to the schools that have nothing for theatre, thats a ton.

I've thought through it. I know I'm purchasing lights. No, not tomorrow. Yes I will do my research and homework.

I just really want to find out what brands you recommend and what models. I dont know every brand that has ever existed and dont know what all of their qualities are, but you guys do. So thats really what I'm asking.
 
If you are doing the All-State show, don't buy anything until the show is over. I just looked it up, Maine is hosting. They have good connections with ILC in Chicago, the owner graduated from Maine South. See if that gets you anywhere.
 
Looks like you've got a solid plan, and you'd be surprised what you can learn coiling cables :)
What models of lighting consoles do you have experience with?
 
@Footer: I've spoken with Mr. Falbe of ILC before. Hes a really great guy.

@martinty: I really dont, thats the thing. I want to but ofcourse my school could never afford such nice things. And I know the Allstate show isn't going to use many movers this year. Its Urinetown.... not much need. I've played around with a Whole Hog II before, but only for about 15 minuites. So this is not only investment in a business, but my own personal education. I've basically taught myself most everything I know about lighting. Everthing else I've picked up by lurking around here. I dont see how it can be any different with movers. I get equipment, lock myself in the garage for a couple days with some manuals and the movers and figure it out, asking questions on here as I go along. I'm about an hour and a half out from the city, so going there regularly (like for a summer internship) is pretty much out of the question.
 
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Do you have any connections with a local rental company? see if they would give you a discount on the rental of a board with a mover like a Mac250, try a board like a Hog 3, because ive seen quite a few of them kicking around on the used sites. If you are feeling really courageous you could try an GrandMA Ultra Lite, but the cost of them is quite high, even used. I may get flak for this, but stay away from conventional consoles like ETC Express that will operate movers but not really designed for it.

Another board you might consider is a Jands Hog 1000, it runs the WholeHog 2 OS, but on different hardware...
 
The problem is price. Those GrandMA Ultra Lites are going upwards of $15,000 used. I would do some pretty extreme things to get my hands on one of those, but thats just out of the question. I definatly want a board that is designed for movers, but can operate conventionals, not visa versa. I dont need to be super fancy either... its my first board after all. I suppose I can do without a touch screen, as long as the software is solid and navigable.
 
As was suggested troll the used gear websites.

I just checked my local theater shop's rental inventory. This is what they rent in the mover and control department:
Mac 500 E; 545W Spot light; Moving yoke
Mac 550 400W spot light; Moving yoke
Mac 600NT E; 545W Wash light; Moving yok
MINI MAC; 150W Spot light; Moving yoke
Studio Due Shark 150
Technobeam w/3pin xlr DMX; w/o IRIS; IEC
Technobeam w/3pin xlr DMX; with IRIS IEC
Zero 88 Fat Frog 24/48 + 12 Movers
Martin Light Jockey Moving Light Controller
ETC Ion

You might want to research the rental inventory of the competition and either buy the same thing or something slightly better that you can rent at the same price.
 
I think a Wholehog would probably be the best bang for the buck too.

But what about fixtures? Does anybody have experiance with the smartMACs?
 
Synchronize said:
...I dont think I can learn a whole lot about the industry by rolling cables in a shop. ...
Click to expand...
Must disagree with you on this one. For one thing, you'd learn that cable is coiled, not rolled. Other things are rolled.;) If you use the word rolled, you're probably coiling wrong. You'd also learn what makes/models are being requested, what can and cannot be substituted, how much they should rent for, the intricacies of bidding, which fixtures need the most/least maintenance, (if you're ship) the best manufacturer of each lamp to purchase, when to sell off existing inventory to maximize profit, and loads of other stuff. Again, talk to those above who have had their own companies, some young, some old.

To answer your original question, the MAC250 Entour is a nice fixture, but probably couldn't compete with a stage wash of SourceFours or 1K PAR64 cans. For stage use, you probably want at least a 575W discharge lamp, due to the throw distances involved.

As for brands of moving lights--
Always acceptable: Vari-lite, High End Systems, Martin
Probably acceptable: Coemar, Clay Paky, Robe, Elation
Never acceptable: Chauvet, American DJ, any number of "generic" brands.

As for consoles, take a good look at ChamSys MagicQ. With a $150 Enttec dongle and any Win/Mac/Linux computer, you can be running lights tomorrow, and can buy more hardware as you grow. As with any quality moving light console, the learning curve is steep however.

...I'm about an hour and a half out from the city [Chicago],so going there regularly (like for a summer internship) is pretty much out of the question. ...
Click to expand...
How far from Mundelein? There's a little lighting shop called Upstaging there that you might want to look into.:lol:
 
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hey
You have have some great ideas, the only thing I would say is like the other guys work in a shop for a while once you start your own you have to have some cash to start. You may want to get your feet wet first by renting from someone else to get the cash to follow. Also you will need insurance for your gear and you which can start to cost you a bit. Best way I found to make this work for me was to work a full time job and do side gigs until I have enough clients to go on my own and not stress the monthly bills.
 
The issue really is that if you start a company with four lights and a console, how do you market that and say you are better than the company with hundreds of lights and choices for consoles? Also consider that people often want to rent more than just moving lights and would rather get their entire package from one place. So in order to really be marketable you probably need an inventory of other gear.

This of course is all besides the fact that there are many other concerns. First off, when you get into MLs, you need to maintain them. This is not easy, usually requires some kind of formal training, and it isn't cheap to do. You need a storage space for the gear, and you need a way to transport it. Maintenance and storage costs are usually factored in to the rental costs (on some level), and chances are they are much cheaper for a major company than for a company operating out of your garage. What happens when you go off to college, what will happen to the gear and you business? Also consider that you will have to buy some kind of insurance for your business, which won't be cheap.

Also consider that you don't want to piss off any other local rental places by undercutting them and taking their business away. You may find that you have a client that needs more than what you have and you need to second source something for them and you probably won't get a good deal when you go to the people you annoyed. Also, how do you get people to trust the 18-year-old kid with no experience over the business that has been around for years, run by seasoned professionals?

Just some food for thought. By no means should you not try to do this, but I think there are many things that you need to think about before getting in too deep. You need to do things like write up a business plan and work out. There are many many details that have to be looked at when starting a business, and you really have to plan for all of them. Sadly it isn't as simple as buying gear, running an ad and getting some clients.
 
Synchronize

For consoles you might want to consider MLight by OSF Solutions. This is a new company that has been formed to sell moving light control software developed for the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. It is primarily designed for theatrical applications, but it quite easy to use and very powerful. It's also inexpensive.

OSF Solutions - inGenius

I am one of the developers of the product and would be happy to answer any questions.

John
 
Echoing what icewolf said

How much do you have budgeted for cables, lamps and a spare unit? If you use 250w lamps you should be able to run on 120 so you could get away with out a proper PD but you will still need to provide some power cable if you hope to offer a turn key package. You will need a bunch of DMX cables because there is no telling where your clients will want to place the lights.

Also don't worry about upsetting other companies the people that are looking to rent this type of gear at the lowest rpice possible are usually a thorn in there side. If they have some extra clamps they will want a discount because they do not need yours.
 
I would say look at the Jands boards. They do pretty well at a lower cost than the big boy stuff.
I would go to work for a rental outfit to learn how to run and maintain the equipment you are looking to buy. There are many guys that have small systems that take jobs the bigger companies don't want. Also, you can use the company you are working for to use to supply the equipment you don't have.
Remember that knowing how to operate MLs doesn't mean you can fix them and if you own them, you will have to fix them.
 
I know a lot of you guys see some 17 year old kid that doesn't know anything about business and doenst know how to do this and that and is getting into something that he doesn't know anything about. I do have a business plan and a marketing plan and advertising ideas. But thats not what I'm here to discuss. My father and all of my uncles are businessmen. My mother majored in international business. I grew up in the family rental business. So business is not something thats forign to me. And its really not something that I would like to discuss here.

I'm really just looking for product recommendations and reviews from people in the industry that use them everyday.

And that may sound a little cold, but really I asked twice now about what people think about two different fixtures, and I've gotten one response about one fixture but about 10 about how I need to consider all of these different things and that because I say "rolling cables" instead of "coiling cables" I am most likely "coiling" my cables wrong. I'm just trying to learn the pros and cons to different brands and models, but all of that is getting lost in everybody trying to throw in their 2 cents about how to start and run a small business. At this point, I'm drowning in pennies.

For those of you that have actually given some suggestion as to what I should look into product wise, thank you very much.
 
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